Locked In with Ian Bick - Brothers Sentenced To LIFE IN PRISON | Lyle and Lonnie Jones

Episode Date: May 7, 2023

Lyle and Lonnie Jones went from growing up in a good family with parents who were pillars of their community to being sentenced to life in federal prison after their drug empire came tumbling down. Listen to Lyle and Lonnie share their heartbreaking story of their rise and fall in the drug business and how they were able to get a second chance at life.Connect with Lyle Jones:https://instagram.com/jonesjr.lyle?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==Connect with Lonnie Jones:https://instagram.com/lifeafterlife20?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ== Connect with Ian Bick: https://www.ianbick.com/Subscribe to our membership program on YouTube to get early access to interviews, see behind the scenes photos & more:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvVklIft6DMelVW18M0oBw/joinPowered by Q29 Productions, LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Real people. Real care. Real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting of cheese, or just grabbing one more spoonful of yogurt. Keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk by real California farm family. On today's episode of Lockton with Ian Bick, I'm not only interviewing one, but two guests who also happen to be brothers. On today's episode, we dive into the lives of Lyle and Lonnie Jones, who are both sentenced to life in prison and released after the passing of the First Step Act on relation to drug charges. Make sure you guys like, comment, subscribe, and share. And if you guys are listening to this on our audio streaming platforms, leave us a review.

These are the stories that will change your life forever. Thank you guys for tuning in to Locked in with Ian Bick. Lyle, Lonnie Jones. Awesome to have you guys on Locked in today. This is our first interview where we have two people on the show that are also brothers. So I'm like super excited for this. I know in the beginning we had talked and we were going to do like two separate interviews. Who was I talking to?

Lyle. Talking to me. Yeah. And then we were like, you know what? Let's just do the whole thing together. So super excited. for this. Thank you guys for coming on the show. Thanks for having us. Definitely thanks for happening.

Now are you guys actual brothers or you stepbrothers? What's the dynamic? Same mother, same mother, same father brothers. Interesting. So how is growing up for you guys? I mean, growing up was, was it the typical two-parent household? You know what I'm saying? Me and my brother and we had a younger brother too, but we had a mother father. You know what I'm saying? Father worked, mother took care to home, raised as well. We played sports. You know everything was good we had a religious background and we was raised as as uh children being respectful to our parents and to others you know what's and this is how father raised us so we our upbringing was amazing

now what did your family do for work and my dad he was a various jobs he was um he worked in the halfway house as a as a director in the halfway house he uh worked in the school system the bridgeport um public school system. And then he had a lot of those side jobs that he did to make ends meet so we can be in a household where we can financially be stable. So he did a lot of odd jobs also. And your mother? My mother, she basically was a stay-at-home mom and then she ran a daycare also in the basement of our home. Now, I'm interested in hearing what you each thought of each other at that age. So Lonnie, if you want to go first, what you thought Lyle, and then we'll reverse it and get each other's perspective. Well, you know, he was big bro, right? So I always looked up to him. He's

my big brother, you know what I'm saying? He was amazing in sports, you know, so I always, you know how the little brother I always want to be like the big brother. So everything he did, I would emulate, you know what I'm saying? So, and we were close in age. So he, he, he wanted these type of shoes. I wanted those type of shoes. He wanted to play basketball, I want to play basketball. He wanted to play baseball. I tried baseball. I wasn't too good, but, you know, so everything he did, I try to emulate as growing up, you know. And what did you think of, Lonnie? Well, you know, he was, he wasn't the typical little brother. He always thought he was my big brother. Like even today, he thinks he's my big brother. You know what I'm saying? I call him little big brother.

You know, but since we were close in age, we did everything together. So it was in like, you know, we was five, six, seven years apart. We was like basically two years. And we were out of the same size. At that time, so we wore the same pants sometimes. We wore the same size sneaker, you know, and we went out together. It didn't change until I got my license. And I was in high school and he wanted to tag along. That's when I'm like, you're 14, I'm 16, I got my friends, you got your friends. But you know, we was, but we was close. Growing up, we was close. Is there any, like, traumatic experiences in your childhood, like, in the middle school or high school days? No. Well, one traumatic experience with me was when he got

hit by a car. Okay. He got hit by a car. Me and him was crossing the street. And I think he was, what, eight? And I was 10 or 8. I was like 10 years old. And he went in front of me and he got hit It went all the way up and came all the way down on the car and rolled. And I thought he was dead until he came and put the smell and salt under his nose. And his legs was broke and all that type stuff. But that, that, you know, that messed me up. I don't remember that to this day. I don't even remember it.

Do you think that, like, changed the dynamic of your relationship going forward as you guys like evolved? It definitely changed the dynamic of my, how I felt about him. Like, because you did the picture actually losing your brother in which at that time was my best friend. You know what I'm saying? everything together and we was actually playing and then trying to cross the street to go scare some people and he just went in front of me yeah definitely changed so you know i tried to cherish when he came out of that situation i tried to cherish every every moment we spent together and you kind of took like that older brother role in the sense like protector yeah like you know more yeah yeah you try to be the

protector and do we see that like evolve when you guys start getting into business together like later on because of that moment absolutely absolutely like we do all our businesses we got four business together. You know, we got four different businesses, well, three, and then one, he's, he's in Florida doing his thing and there's another side one, but we got three businesses that we actually own together. Now, the city that you guys are growing up in, is there a lot of crime, is there violence? Like, what are you surrounded by? It's a lot of crime, especially when we was, before we got incarcerated. I think Bridgeport was like number three in a nation per capital as far as a homicide rate, you know, Bridgeport, Connecticut. So it's, it's, it's getting better, but it's,

it's a lot of crime out there. And how are you able to stay away from that, like as kids growing up? Well, we, like my dad, he moved us out. Like, we was born in the projects, but he moved us out into, like, a suburban area where we went to school away, even though we went back and had friends and played. But his guidance and his stance as a man kept us away from that. Like, are us, like, saying, like, we fear God, right? But when you fear your father growing up, like, yo, I'm not going to do because Pops ain't playing.

Pops know what it is over there. He ain't playing. So you had that fear in that respect for your father because you see how hardy work and trying to keep you away from that. And so that really what triggered us to stay away from that young. You know what I'm saying? Like he wasn't going for it. And then we knew that if we did something crazy, pop going to see us. So what changes?

Like where's the mindset shift that you guys have that mindset? You're respecting him. and you know you want to do good where does it go south from there where you kind of like diverge off that path well he started first so you're blaming it's not good to put playing he started first well uh me and him was me and him was in college we's in college in north Carolina what's cool he was going to north Carolina Central I was going to community college I had just left New Hampshire I was on a four-year scholarship in New Hampshire me and my coach got into it I ended up leaving after like two years and going down with him

And what are you guys majoring in? I majored in accounting also. Okay. And minor in marketing. That's really interesting. And minor in marketing. Okay. And we was down there, you know, my father gave me a job at a halfway house, working

in a halfway house. So I left school and came back to Connecticut. He stayed in North Carolina. And while in Connecticut, one thing led to another, I started hanging with the wrong people, you know, just seeing things. Not actually doing it, but just seeing it. Just hanging with friends that's involved, you know. And once they got involved, you know, and once they got involved, you know,

involved and I'm watching and I'm observing eventually when like one of my friends he got he got arrested and he said he said speedy man can you uh I need you man you don't even when I trust can you go out there and collect this money for me and I collect some money from him it was like $40,000 I had to collect from him that guy's owed him and he's like just get me a lawyer I got him a lawyer you know and I said what you want me to do with the other $225,000 he said keep it just put some money on my books I never had $1,500 in my pocket. You know, I never had $15. Now, here I am working, making $500 a week.

He gives me $25,000 and tells me to keep it. What is he doing to get that? But I know what he's doing. So eventually I'm like, from observing it, I start doing what he was doing. In your mind, are you like wishing you didn't know what he was doing? Exactly. That's why I said, like, it's cliche, but we say people, places and things. Just hanging with certain people, hanging.

hanging in certain places and wanting certain things. And while me doing that, everything that my parents taught me was out the window. Just in a matter a second. In a matter, just seeing that and then trying something and it worked. Well, I thought it was working. And just trying something and it worked. So you're saying a guy that never had 1,500, that got $25,000,

that $25,000 turned into 50 to 100 to 150. I mean, I'm 22 years old. And so basically your whole life changes all because of who you associate. with you had a friend that asked you for a favor for a favor that see that's like the wild part about people's stories that one thing that one like for me and my story it's like that one house party I threw that led to me throwing bigger parties which like ultimately landed me in prison so that one favor and that just shows like the type of person you are wanting to do that favor that's like a friendship that's a that's a true friend right there and you do that and it changes your life so how does

that evolve in that instance what do you start getting into Now I start getting into, well, actually I was selling heroin and crack. We were selling heroin and crack. Just right away, like as soon as that. Yeah, because like I said, I was sitting there observing them. I'm from the project. So I see, I know how things move. You know, it's not, so the projects is just flooded with drugs.

So I know how things move. So what I, so from me just watching and knowing who he knew and I had money. Once you have money and you know certain things and you got money to work with, you can go buy drugs. and you can flip it and flip it, flip it, and then you just try something. And it works. Now, there's no turning back now.

Now it was hard to even stop. And it first starts out, okay, well, let me just get this nice car or let me buy this house. Now once you get all that, now what you're going to do? Now you want more and more and more. And that's what happened. How much are you making a week when you first start? When I first started a week, it was a long time ago.

It was a week, probably about $50,000 to $60,000. That's cute. which is a lot back then. That was cute. Back then, I thought I was making some money. That's a lot for back. No, it's not a lot. But I thought it was a lot.

50, 60,000 a week. People don't make that a year. Yes, I mean, that's when I first started. So this is early 2000. No, this is early 1994. 1999. And you're like 23, 24? Yeah, and I make, yeah, I'm 22.

By 22. And just got from college and I'm making probably about 50,000 to 60,000. a week. And this is the first crime you ever commit. Never been to jail before. Nothing. Now, do you have like a team under you or is this just you? Yeah, I had, I had a couple people that was my friend of my friends who knew how to do certain things. Yeah. You know, so they, yeah. So I had the money. I had the product and they, and they did that. Is your dad asking you what, like, what the hell are you doing? If you're one, you asked that because I had, I had, had so much respect for my pops that he's hearing things and he's asking like that, you know

I ain't selling no drugs. I would never do nothing like that. You know I'm not out there. And so I used to have some of my workers sit on each corner and when they see my father come through the projects, because he's a prominent guy in my projects, he had come through and just ride through. They'd be like, yo, your pops is coming through and I go and I'd hide. Wow. And I'll be looking out the window. And when he leave, I come out. And I'm a grown man. But that's the respect issue that we had. I didn't want to disappoint him and I'm sitting there lying to him. And then I got so big that I couldn't hide no more. Now, Lonnie, do you hear about his drug business while you're still away at school? Matter of fact, I came back because I had came back.

I had left school because I had ended up getting my first daughter and mother pregnant. So, you know, we always taught like, you know, my father was there for us. So I got to be there for my kids. So now I come back he this dude now, right? He got cars, he got money, you know what I'm saying? And I'm like, oh, you tripping? Like, I'm just coming back, I'm like, you're tripping, man. You know,

the Pops taught us all this and you out there tripping like that. I used to blow on him, right? Like, man, you tighten up, man. See, it come through? But I see, you know, all this money, right? And I'm like, I'm working at a health insurance company. I'm like, but he coming through with thousands of dollars. I'm like, paying his car note. I'm like, yo, you? I'm like, oh, you tripping, man?

You know what I'm saying? There's only two ways it's going to end. Right? We noticed, we was taught this, you know what I'm saying? We had uncles and stuff and family members that went through this already, right? And as it going on, like, I'm still good, right? I'm working, whatever. My daughter born, I'm taking care of my children, all that.

But he goes to jail. He goes to jail. Yeah. I get locked up. I get caught in New York. And I end up going upstate New York. I went to Elmira. First they sent me to shock.

I got kicked out of shock program. I ended up going to Elmira. So the first time you're arrested, he's not involved in this drug business yet. Now, going back to that for one second, do you just want to not be involved with him? Like, I know the money is good and whatnot, but do you want to stay away from him even though it's your brother? No, I never stayed away from him, but I was staying away from what he was doing. I would come out there because, you know, you got money. There's a lot of women around.

So I'm like, I'm having fun with him. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to go out. I'm the little brother with, you know what I'm saying, with the brother that got the money and whatever. I'm having fun with him, but I ain't doing what he doing. I'm going to get up and. morning go to work. Now is your mindset you want to keep the business away from him because he's your

younger brother? Absolutely. Because I didn't want my parents to have two boys out there. Yeah. You know, I got caught up, but I definitely didn't want him to get caught up. So you got arrested that first time, what happens? I got arrested. I was, I got arrested in New York City. I got caught with like, I think 250 grams of cocaine in New York. I made bond a couple months later, I get sentenced to one to three. go upstate New York. That's it one to three years. Yeah, one or three years. Now, is this before, like the Clinton presidency with like the war on drugs and everything like that? No, this is after. This is in the 90s. This is still in the 90s. So that's a state case though. This is a state case. That's a short amount of time then for that much. Yeah, it was, New York was, I seen guys get caught

with more and get less time. So it was New York wasn't that bad in the 90s like in the early. And it was powder. It was a crack. Okay. You know, so yeah, I did, it was a one to three and I went and I went to jail. Who's running your business while you're in jail? Well, when I came to jail, I made bond. So I was preparing to go to jail. So when I prepared, you know me, I'm just, okay, I got one year, got to do. They promised me a little six-month shock program. So what I did was I stacked as much money as possible within that four or five months I was out on bond, you know, hit it. And went to jail. I didn't have nobody running it. I figured when I come back, I'd pick up where I left off. And I'm sure your dad knows by this point. You know, now he knows. Yeah, he had to come by me out.

What does he say to you? What does he say to me? I called him from Central Booking. Said, Dad, can you come get me? He said, where are you at? It was like 3 o'clock in the morning. I said, I'm locked up in New York. He hung up on me. I called back. He said, man, leave me alone with that, man. I said, I mean, I said, leave me alone. He hung up. I go, if you ever been to court, I mean, jail in New York, it's like night court. You have night court, you're there all day, and it was the weekend. Yeah.

And so when I go in front of the judge, when I come out to go in front of the judge, probably like 3 o'clock in the morning, I see my mother and my father there. So he acted like he wasn't, but he came there. And they gave me a bond. And I called him. I said, listen, dad, come get me. I'm going to get you the money back. I made mine, gave him the money back.

He had a long talk with me about. you know, and I'm like, Dad, this is my last time. I'm sorry, you know, it's game the whole spill. And, uh, did you mean what you said when you said you were done? At that time, I definitely did. So what changed? I mean, when I first went to jail. Yeah.

I was like, this is it. I used to write them long letters while I was locked up and, you know, because that one of three felt like for 10 years. It felt like 10 years back then. Well, that's your first time ever in prison. That's my first two months in federal prison felt like, like looking back on and now that was the longest fucking period of my life like those two months yeah just like and it felt like years are you guys communicating with each other while you're in prison yeah he's coming to see me is he

like saying like I told you so you shouldn't have gotten into this but he actually he actually I don't know what he's doing but uh he's so he asked me for some uh some money they'll get what somebody else he said something he gave me some type of story and I'm like man and I don't want to tell him where my money's at because all of them he didn't want to tell me where his money was because all of it is together it's not like okay go get five G's here you know I got over $100,000 seven thousand dollars over here saved up and I'm waiting I only got six months seven months to do I can't wait to get to my money if I tell him ain't no telling what's gonna happen he knows where my money is at so I tell him where I tell him he's giving me a

spill I say yo make sure you and you want me to tell a story what you're gonna so while I'm locked up I tell him where it's at. I got three months to go home. I don't hear from them. I'm calling, but I don't hear from them. We talk all the time. I really don't hear from him.

So I'm like, man, this dude, man. I want to know where's the rest of my money at, you know? And so finally, it's my release date. And they picked me up from 100th Center Street in Manhattan, him, my father and my younger brother. And I can't wait to get to him. I'm like, man, this dude, man. So they picked me up.

he in a rental car. My father, he wants to see he's driving. I see two big earrings in his air. Two big diamond earrings. Look like about $15,000 a piece. Oh, man. So I'm like, this is where my money going, man.

Then I see a Rolex. I'm like, man. So, but he's, I can't say nothing because my father's in the car. So I'm just sitting in the back seat, fuming, you know? So we get back to Connecticut. I go see my mother, They're going to see my mother, see my father, see my brother, see family members.

I tell him, let's take a ride. You take a ride. He's like, just calm down. He's like me. He's blown on me. Yeah, I'm like, yo, yeah. He's like, just calm down. So he takes me, he takes me motorcycle shopping.

Motorcycle shopping. I don't want a motorcycle. Where's my money at? The first day out, he take me, buy me motorcycle. Then he take me to his apartment and stuff, you know, and it's money everywhere. and he throws me my money that on him. And then he has all this other money over there. He's got on the floor.

On the floor everywhere. And I'm like, yo, what you do? I took you a whole week to do? And I was probably close to hunting. And he laughed at me. And he said, that was today. We did this today. Wow.

I said, what? So my little $60,000 a week compared to his $80,000 in one day was totally different. So he took your money and turned it into an empire. An empire. What's going through your mind? What gave you that idea? Because you were just asking him for a loan. So how do you get this idea?

No, he wasn't asking for a loan. He had other plans. I was always the thinker. Right? And I seen like, they're doing it like that. I said, but if I was to do this, I already know what I would do. You know what I'm saying? But I didn't want to go there.

But like things started getting tight. I would think I had my second child coming now. I'm like, man, I know brother got this money there. I got some partners I know that could put me out. Because I didn't really know the street business like that. I mean, I've been around it, but I didn't know. But I had friends that I went to high school with and stuff like that. Like my partners are like, they was knee deep.

I got this money. And we got the respect of the project from family, right? So I can know I got a spot where I can move product if I want to. So I just put two and two together, call my men up like, yo, boom, boom, boom. I need a one, two, whatever. Show me this. Boom, boom, boom. So I learn.

Certain things. I mean, I took some hits. It ain't like it was just, I got it and everything went good. I took some hits, right? But I had enough to bounce the bat. You know what I'm saying? Like I might lose money. People beat me, run off with like,

this basketball playing, his college dude. He don't know what he's doing. You know what I'm saying? So I took a few hits, but then I figured it out. I'm saying, I got scared at first. I'm like, yo, brother, kill me. I'm losing his money because I'm losing at first. You know what I'm saying?

Brother, can kill me when he come home. I know you wait banking on his money. right and he don't know I took it I ain't no thief but you know I try my hand I flip it and I get it back to him or whatever right but once I once I figured it out it was like it just went to a whole different level like unexpectedly you know I had my man he showed me like showed me what the do he kind got me contacted with some connects out of out of the city and stuff like that and it just went haywire do you think it would have been harder to do this if you didn't grow up where you grew up because you had like the basis

to build this foundation. Definitely been harder. Yeah, like we knew the, like the project we from, it always been like a multi-million dollar project. Like, I don't know what's going on today, but like since we've gone up, I mean, we know people that made millions of dollars in this project. Yeah. Literally.

No exaggeration. So the project by itself, because it's right by the highway and things of that nature, so it always made a lot of money. You know what I'm saying? And then when, being that we was from there, and we played basketball out there and everybody knew us. And then our family had respect out there. We also had the respect out there.

You know what I'm saying? So it made it easy for me to come in there, find the workers, whatever, and put everything in play. Yeah. Is your dad checking in with you to make sure you're not following his path while he's in prison? I see, I'm grown. I see me like me now, my heart done got so hard now. And my desire done got so thirsty for wealth that I ain't even tripping our pops no more.

That's how, like, that's the disrespect. that king. Like, this is how money changes you. Like, I'm getting this. Like, Pop's just going to have to know. So, Pop's, like, he had run. Like, now I just stand out there. Like, what a pop? He said, like, we're Muslim, right? So my father come in like, yo, he'll just ride by. He said, you know what I taught you? Like, he said, it's

a period that you're doing this. It's just a period of which an illusion. I'm like, Pop, what do you mean? It's illusion, man? I got a 740 BMW, I got this, I got dad, I got houses and all this. What you mean? It's an illusion. You know what I'm saying? And he said, when you forget Allah,

Allah forget you and he'd just ride off. He must have been sick seeing you following down his path. Man, listen, absolutely. Him and my mother sick. They want to take no money from us. No money. They're like, nah, we don't want that. I bought my mother a car one time and she was like, oh, that's nice.

You want to do something for me? Go get a job. I'm like, what? Here's a car. Yeah. But that's how they were. But that just shows like the parents love for their child too, that they knew what you guys were doing.

But they weren't going to go to the level where they're like ratting you out. They're supportive, but they're not at the same time. Exactly. So when you got out of jail, did you have every intention of not getting back into the business? Absolutely. I didn't for two weeks. Yeah, what you told me. You're like, I'm a chill. I said, I'm a chill. I told him, I said, I said, I'm good. I seen all that money, but my mindset was, I just did a year. And it was the hardest year I ever did in my life. And so when he, so when he was like, yo, this is us. I'm like, now I'm good. You know, he just got, I just got a motorcycle. He gave me a car. I had a car, and he gave me my money back.

And I had two kids. And I'm like, man, and I'm no stranger to work. I worked on my life, so I can go get me a job, you know, so I'm was good. You know, you're talking about a young kid. I got over $100,000. I got a car. And, you know, and I got two kids, apartment. I'm good.

And, but I'm hanging with him. Like I said, we best of friends. So I'm just, I'm around again. And I'm seeing him collect, collect, collect. And then he came, what happened was. He came through in a brand new 740 BMW. He came through with rims and he came through. And everybody was like, oh, and I'm sitting there like that night I said,

you know what, I'm back. He came to me. He's like this. I'm back here. So now the dynamics change. It flip-flopped before it was he was around watching you. Exactly. Yeah.

So how's the dynamic when you guys team up together? who's in charge. But we're partners. You're partners? Yeah, I got something like that. Everything was partners. Because, you know, I got my start with his money. Yeah.

Even though it wasn't what I was doing. But like, you know, I took that and built this. This is ours. So we're going to run it together. And I respected that at that time because he, whatever he was making in the day, he had to split. It was split in half. So if he was making $80,000 in one day, he was making $40 now.

So, you know, so that, he was taking a hit. You know, so now, but he was trying to bring, he was like, yo, bro, what's up? And I'm like, I'm good, I'm good. He wanted to break bread with you. Yeah. Now, because of your college background with accounting and stuff, did that help your business because you're able to legitimize it in a way? Absolutely.

And this is why we believe the judge gave us a lot more time than we supposedly. He felt that we were supposed to have got because he felt that we took, we took what we learned in school and brought it to illegal business. So how exactly did you do that? How does the accounting play into your business? What's like the inner workings of this drug empire? See, a lot of people that sell drugs, they don't have, they just sell drugs and they just see the money coming in. We knew profit margins.

We knew what margins. If we can do this on certain days, we can make this. And in a week, this would be this. So we plan and we sat and we plan things out. All the marketing strategies. The marketing strategies. Make things look beautiful. Make the colors look beautiful.

Make the bags look beautiful. make the name sound appeasing. And then I had, we have visionaries, right? I had a vision, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, this is just temporarily. Now we're going to move into real estate. We're going to move into these things, right? Because for me, this is not going to be my life.

I know what's the end of this. I know. My father embedded this and I, we don't have seen it. Yeah. Because we was only, I was only in the street, what, two years before they came and got me. So did you have a number you wanted in your head to get out? because like a lot of the dealers I've talked to or the fraud guys, they have a number in their head.

And you never stick to that number. You always say a number. Everybody says the number. But what was your number? My number, when I first thought, I was like, I'm going to get his money back and get what he got and I'm stopping. So that didn't.

That didn't happen. I told you with me, it was a house in a car. Yeah. But see, the thing is, as you get bigger and the money coming in, your accessibility is less. Like, you ain't around no more. Like, everything is just like a well-oil machine.

It's just, running. You might just come through this to show your face and let people like, don't play with us. You know, we're still around. But you ain't even there. So it's like you're making all this money and you and them got to be seen. You know? And that's how we were. Like, what kind of drug dealers are you? Are you guys like violent or not so much because you came up from a very different background than the people that were surrounded by? By nature, we're not. By nature like growing up, like we weren't violent, right? But in that game, it breeds it. You know what I'm saying? Things happen. When you're moving that much money and you're on that type of type of lifestyle, things happen.

You can't escape that. So you became someone you never wanted to be? Absolutely. Absolutely. When's like that first moment or dangerous situation where maybe you guys have like a realization, you're like, holy shit, this is a different game than what we grew up in. The thing is you don't even realize it, right? Because you get so embedded in it, it becomes the, like you normalize it.

It becomes normal. Like carrying a gun to bulletproof vests. That's what we did every day. That's wild. And the justification, we justify whatever we do. We just justify anything that happens and it could be something minimal. We'd like, man, he violated. And looking back, we was in a way.

Yeah. We wasn't, because we was in it. We was tripping. You know what? But when you actually in it, and that's why when we talk to young kids, I understand, like, when you're in it, you mean, and we had people in our air. But when you're in it and you so far deep, it's hard. And I liken that to, like you see a lot of people that use drugs. And you'd be like, man, that's how it was.

We're getting money. People that you, it was an addiction. And you'd be like, man, why he keep going back? But he's addicted to it. You know, he'd go to rehab. I go to jail. You know, he'd go to rehab, come back and relapse. I go to jail, come back and start getting money again.

It's the same thing. Are you guys using yourselves or are you just strictly business? I never smoke the cigarette. We don't drink, smoke. Never. None of that. Really. So you weren't influenced. It was strictly about money and business. I gamble though. We got to shot a lot of dice. Oh, we got to get into that. I shot a lot of damage. I shot a lot of

I shot a lot of dice in my day. Yeah. Awesome. So what what's like the like the first time that something like you guys like you guys were in a violent situation that could have ultimately affected one of you guys that could have changed like the dynamic of the business? Was there any like situations or were you guys mostly respected and no one touched you? No, no, no, no. It was it was people that. I mean, we respect the. I mean, we respect the. I mean, we respect the. I. I mean, a lot but it was it was people that actually tried you know and and like you know it's it's people that had to drop on me who who you know they by the grace of god i'm still here you know what i'm saying it could have went totally left they had to drop on me and for whatever reason i'm still here yeah you know but the thing is like we had we had built such a a team right and we had some men with us that people revered they feared body cards you know what i'm saying you know what i'm saying we have people like, like, don't even try them. Because they all come in.

Right? You know what I'm saying? So, and when it was like that, so people feared that, right? But at the same time, we still was respectable. We didn't disrespect people and just do crazy stuff unless they violate it. And then in the game, like, when you're in the street, somebody violates. It's like, yo, he can't get away with that because somebody else can try you. You know what I'm saying?

No, we ain't like, one or two people might have got a pass because we might have liked his mother. Or we knew his fan. We don't get my pass. But if you cross that line, like, something, something got to happen. Now, does your, do you think your dad realizes how powerful you two have become in this area? Yeah, he knew. And he's just completely removed from the situation. Like, there's no trying to stop you.

As a parent, right, how my dad is, right, he removes itself in a situation, but he never removed itself from giving us guidance and talking to us and trying to get us away from that. He stayed on us. Like, listen, man. I mean, every time, every chance he'd get. you know how this is going to end. You know how it's going to end. Every time.

Like he would never support what we did. But let me reverse that a little bit because if the police was out of pocket with us, even though we're doing wrong. If they was crossing the line, he going to bat for us though. Really? He going to bat for us. Even though we're doing wrong. But if they violate their code, he comes.

And they violated. plenty of times he coming now at the peak how much are you guys bringing in in money the peak what is like half a million a week easy all because it's like what about 120 a day yeah like 40 a shit we had three shifts it was like at the peak it was like man I'm glad we can get reindicted for this and it's all just the powder you never get into anything else or you guys we had heroin no it's heroin no it's heroin and crack heroin crack that's it yeah yeah Now, did you guys have, like, principles as drug dealers, like, don't sell the kids or don't do this? Like, were there certain rules?

He definitely wasn't selling the kids, you know what I'm saying? Other than that, it was fair game. And I didn't want, like, if you see a pregnant lady, I used to tell her, I used to tell her workers like, because we didn't sell hand-in-hand. We didn't see what I was going, but I used to tell, like, the workers and stuff like that and our lieutenants and stuff. To make sure you see about somebody pregnant, man, let her go somewhere else. You know what I'm saying? Let her go somewhere else. Because we still had somewhat of a conscious.

Now, how old are you guys by this point? Like when it's nearing the end of this empire, how old are you guys each? I'm 25. And I'm 20. It's like 24, 25. Yeah, I'm like 26. You're at 26. When do you first find out that they're investigating you and who exactly is investigating you?

You always felt, we felt it, right? Because we know we was too big for the city. Like, Brishport is small, right? I mean, far as land-wise. And we was like, we had, like, everybody in our, in our, I call it a team, right? in our team they all had expensive cars everybody from the lieutenants and expensive cars motorcycles doing whatever going to strip clubs doing all that stuff that i guess people do now right so we was really too big for the city one day i seen it right we pulled up my father had a food truck in the

project right and we pull up and i got my beamer my man got his range over my brother got his big expedition eddie bowered out and then we got up my other man got his navigator and we got all these cars parked right there and I look and I said, yo, we're going down. He said that true. I said, we're going down. You're too big for here. We need to be in New York or somewhere. Like, we can't have cars and stuff like this.

You know what I'm saying? We too big for the city. You know what I'm saying? And that's when I knew like, yo, something had to change. Then you felt it though, right? But they really wasn't honest yet until, you know, that November 6th, 1999, right? Why didn't you get out of the game in that instant when you realized that? To be honest, right, I was getting stressed out because I was, because, you know, with the, with the streets, you start beefing and stuff, right?

So things happen. So I'm like, yeah, I'm tired of. These little nut kids, man, these, these, I'm tired. I'm about to buy a house down south in North Carolina where I went to college at. Move at the time, you know, my ex-wife down to North Carolina, man, we're good, raised my family. I'm like, yo, I'm telling my uncle on them is in the car, right? I'm like, yo, I'm done with the street, man. That's, I'm about to move it.

You know what I'm saying? So that night, when I'm telling them this, Yeah, the cops was actually looking for me. They were looking for me because I got into an altercation with somebody, like domestic dispute. And they were looking for me. And they pulled him and two of my uncles over looking for me. And they found guns invests in the car with them.

The feds picked the case up after that, pick their case up. So now I'm out by myself. So he's arrested for the feds for gun First I made bond first He made bond He made bond He got caught in the state They made bond

And like two, three days later The feds came They grabbed me And grabbed him And didn't get bond from that No And that was the last time You saw daylight at that point

So that's how I saw daylight And I told him I said yo The fed is coming I said I ain't got no record Right I'm first time non-violent Offender I just got caught with a gun

How I don't get a bond For a gun So I tell him, I was like, yo, they come in. He told me that. I said, they come. I said, me, clean everything up. Because what they told me was? The cops told me when I put, when it, because they pulled me and him over.

And they arrested him again. But it was really the feds. They was working for the feds. And they arrested him. And they let me go. They arrested him for loitering. So they told me he's like, no, he shouldn't have been out here. He's loitering.

I'm like, why are you taking my brother for loitering? So he's telling me in the car. He's like, yo, man, it's the feds. I said, Matt, he said it's loitering. Yo, it's the feds. I'm like, man, so he goes down to our little precinct or whatever and come to find out that it was a federal complaint, that he had a federal complaint for a gun charge.

And it was the feds, you know. And the dad picked up the gun. And this is where their investigation into the drug business starts? Right. Yes. How do they find out to connect the guns to the drugs? They already was like invested. This pushed the investigation up.

So like there was another team investigating and they kind of connected the dots. Yeah. They connected the dots. But what happened was it because it was him and two of my uncles. Right. So now whatever drugs and other illegal activity, they was investigating, they chose to just leave that, just push that. We're going to indict them on all of this now because they was investigating for, you know,

they was going to just leave us out there for a little longer because we had no wiretaps. We never got to call with drugs. No pictures, no money, no nothing. What's the evidence then? The evidence was we had testimony. Yeah, the judge said, testimony is direct evidence. I mean, they had a few vests.

Like, we get caught with vests and they keep them in the precinct. They had some guns. That was the key evidence. So that's all they ever found on you guys was guns and vests? I never got caught. I never got caught with no drugs.

They never found, on us personally, was the gun in the vest. And I could wear a vest because I didn't have no record. The vest was in nothing. It was the gun. But what they did was, any like if they found drugs what they say was our brand that we sold they started saying

this was they started giving us that you know what I'm saying this was the brand that they sold yeah so that was the drugs they used nobody if they found it in a car or arrested somebody they attached that to us what about your assets are they seized at this point or no so your assets were always safe the answers were safe because he got picked up by the feds and when he got picked up by the feds, I was still out. And you did what you had to do. I was out for like five months. I was out about three months.

I was at three, four months. But three, four months, I was out. The feds picked you up. They picked me up like four months later. They came with the drug indictment. A drug indictment. And they came at you hard? They superseded his, yeah, they came out as hard.

And where were you when you got arrested this day? I was at a friend's house. Actually, they was looking for me. I was on a run. They was looking for me for a murder. Yeah. You and Lewis are both on the run. I was at a run.

I wasn't on to run per se, but it was like, I heard they were looking for me for a state murder that had absolutely nothing to do it, mind you. And I was going to turn myself in for that, but I wanted to see my kids first. And some, they got when where I was at and they came in and they took me. They came in hard. They came in hard and took me. And in the back of my mind, I still was hoping that it was for the murder and not the feds. Because it was in it. So the state came in with the feds, but sometimes they work together. And they take me, they say, yeah, you're going to court Monday for the state. I'm like, oh, thanks. They said,

but right now we'll take you to federal court to get you a rain for drug conviction. I'm like, oh, my God. But by this point, you have all your, are you guys done with the drug business, essentially? Yeah, actually, I was done probably five, six months prior to, about four months prior to him even going to jail. And everything's cleaned up, you're good? Yeah, I'm not, yeah. So it could have been a lot worse. Evidence-wise, had you can. continued to do what you were doing. Oh, no question. We didn't smash.

No question. Not outcome-wise because they were going to screw you regardless, but evidence-wise. Evidence-wise, yes. They jumped the gun and what they relied on was people telling. So they should have watched a little bit more. And that's what our whole argument. There was no videotape of us doing anything. There was no evidence in cars, money, nothing.

They just had people saying, we had this, we did this. And they work for us. Now, are you guys communicating with each other through a lawyer or something while you're both in prison? We were together. We was together. You're in the federal holding. In the detention center. Where's this detention center?

Rhode Island. Was that Wyatt? Yeah. So Wyatt was around and this is the 90s. Yes, this was 99, 2000. That's where I was because like a lot of people I'll meet with. They normally have a county jail that's held in the feds. But in Connecticut, there's no.

I was in the county for the first six months for the gun. Yeah. And then when they indicted us, like a month later, I met them up. They sent me up to Wyatt with them. Yeah. Okay. So you guys are transported to Wyatt? So are you in the same pod?

Yeah. Same sale. Why'd they do that? My whole family. Same case and it's a... Everybody. It was like 10 of us in the same block. That's interesting that they put you guys all together.

All together. So they're not trying to turn you guys. Oh, they were trying to turn. They try to turn people. So what is the logic of putting you guys all together? No, no, no. They came and sent the ones they felt that was weak. They came and took them out.

Yeah. And brought them to another jail where they had contact visits and all that type stuff. And those are the guys that end up turning? Actually, they didn't. Wow. Actually, they didn't. But they was working on them hard. So how long are you?

you at Wyatt for and what's going on in the like the legal process what are your lawyers telling you guys do you have like a paid lawyer or public defender and we have paid lawyers okay yeah we have my lawyer at the first um i had them for my gun charge and then when they indicted me for the uh the drugs he took the drug charge too but like right before i'm about to start trial because they um severed our case we always want to go to trial together they didn't want to do that because they had, they had no evidence. So they wanted to put me as, this person as a boss. They wanted to put him as a boss.

They wanted to put my uncles as a boss, right? So if they were to brought us together, it would have been chaos. So they, half of us was going to trial. Then they got superseded on violence, right? And we didn't get superseded on violence. And the day before we had a status hearing, they removed my attorney from my case, took them off. How could they just remove the lawyer? I was sick.

And I had, you know, he was an animal, right? They feared him, right? You know what I'm saying? And right, we're going to a full status shame, but it was another big time drug dealer from my city that he represented. He was becoming a snitch. You know what I'm saying? Against you.

So they, we didn't know he was going to tell against us, right? Because he really couldn't tell nothing against it. We never dealt with him. But he was making up stories. And the government knew what we didn't know it. So they said like, it's a conference. like an interest, but one moment this and that, so they removed my lawyer off my case, and I had I got severed out. And a year later, I went to trial by myself. Yeah, so that's how that happened.

And what's going on with your case while? Are you on trial at the same time, just different cases? No, they superseded me and hit me with violence. They had hit me with violence. So we, I got hit with Rico, Rico conspiracy, murder, Vicar. Vicar, all kinds of stuff. Yeah, all federal. And he was just on a drug, one drug on a drug. One drug on a drug. drug count. And so they severed our cases because he couldn't go with us because of the violence. So he couldn't go with us. So he went to trial before me. Actually, I was three, three and a half years pre-trial before I even went to trial. How does your trial turn out? Which would mean turn out? They smashed me. You lost every, every count. I only had one count. You just had one count.

You just had one count. That's it. That's it. And you lost that. Obviously, you lost that one count. And the best evidence that they had against me was from somebody who testified that wasn't even part of my organization. How much time are you facing on a drug conspiracy charge? Life. It's life on that. So you get, you lose a trial, you go back to the detention center. How long after until you're sentenced? I lost trial in December.

I got a sentence in March, I believe. And what's your sentence? Life. And you're how old? At that time, I was 27. So what's that feeling like to get sentenced to life in prison at 27 years old? For me, when he, because once I lost trial, I knew I was going to get life. So the thing is when I lost.

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I got a fight. You know what I'm saying? But by that time, like I've been king, I started becoming like spiritual, where I started getting into my religion. And I knew like, yo, they only could give me what God going to allow them to give me. I ain't tripping.

You know what I should tell my brother that. You know what I'm saying? It's like, they can't do nothing but what God can allow them to do. Like I'm getting into like my spirituality now. Like, you know, all the things that my father taught us, now we're sitting back and it's replaying. All the things he used to say is replaying.

So now, like, man, let me, my back against the wall, I got to turn to the one who would get me out of any condition. You know what I'm saying? So I started doing that. So when I started doing that, man, when they gave me the life sentence, I was school, I just felt bad for my parents and my kids. And so I'm good. Because I know I'm going to fight and God willing I'm going to be out of this eventually.

But my mom and my dad and my daughters was like two and four. I had three daughters. Two was two and one was four. And I know they ain't going to be with their dad for a while. What's that conversation like with your family, like after you got life in prison? See, like my parents are strong. So my dad was like, we're going to keep fighting. Say, don't even worry about it, son.

He said, he said, mark my word. I swear I never forget this I call home after I lost shot he'd send me back I mean after he gave me the life sentence I went back to Wyatt and I called he said mark my word

you will not do a life sentence in prison he said I'm a fight too for now to make sure you don't do a life sentence in prison and that's what he did Did that help keep you going? Oh absolutely Did you ever lose hope and like that those couple months after?

Never. You just knew that whatever it takes you're going to get out of here Absolutely I always felt like that Even like when I was in prison right And I started out at USP Coleman in Florida. They sent me way to Florida, right? They still wanted people to tell.

They sent me to Florida away from everybody. They put separations on us. So we couldn't be together. And you couldn't talk. Right? We couldn't write each other. Once I got sentenced, we couldn't even be around each other no more. The whole time in prison, right?

But when I got the Coleman, I lost what I was talking about. What was talking about just now? They were separate. They separated you, sent you to Coleman. Yeah, they separated and sent us to Coleman. combing. So now I'm by myself, you know what I'm saying? But I know I got a fight. I got a fight.

So I get a job in a law library hallway. You know what I'm saying? So every day I'm in there, you know, I'm praying, I'm working and I'm working on my case. That was my life. I had that hope like, yo, and dudes just said to me like, you walk around here, like you're going home tomorrow. I said, I am going

home tomorrow. You know what I'm saying? Because people never knew I had a life sentence. They say, man, you out here playing basketball. You laugh. You got a license. I said, yeah, man. What? What I'm supposed to do? Hang it up?

Nah, I ain't built like that. I ain't built like when adversity hit that I just foiled. I wasn't raised like that. You know what I'm saying? So people are like, yo, I marry you young. I was young then. I admire you jit. You know what I'm saying?

Like you fight and you stood firm, man. And you walk around here like you're home tomorrow. I said, inshallah, God will and I'll be home tomorrow. And that mindset carried you through. All the way through. I mean, I just think it's insane that they gave a non-violent drug offender life in prison. First time.

But that was the dynamics back then, too. That's what they were doing to a lot of people. So you're sitting at the USP and Coleman. What's going on with your case? Do you go to trial? Do you take a plea deal? No, I definitely didn't take a plea deal. They hit me with some violence.

They hit me with a murder. And the murder, it was the murder that they hit me with. I had a hung jury, first and former. We went to trial, me and for other code offense. We went to trial and we had a hung jury on everything. On everything. 33 counts hung on 33 crowns. One person held out had us guilty.

11 had us innocent. One person had us guilty. And because they fabricated a lot of violence. Because it's one thing about a drug conspiracy is easy to prove a drug conspiracy, but it's hard to prove violence. It's hard. And all these dudes was come in line. They hit me with a murder, and I was in North Carolina at a family reunion, Fairbill, North Carolina at a family reunion.

And when it happened. When it happened, when it actually happened, and I'm on videotape, I got hotel records, I got phone records, I'm literally. And how do five people come up with the same story that I grew up with? They said they've seen me kill this man. And I'm literally, so now I'm going to trial. and they're telling the story, telling the story, yeah, I seen Speedy do this, I seen Speedy do that, I seen him stand over him and all that,

and my lawyer is like, no further questions, Your Honor. And then I got to put my defense on. And my defense was videotape, look where he's at. Phone records, look where he's at. Fairville, North Carolina. I'm in Fayetteville, I checked in a hotel at 12 o'clock midnight in Fairville, North Carolina. The guy got killed 1 o'clock in the morning

in Bridgeport, Connecticut. There's nowhere in the world I could have been there. then I'm on camera there's no way so now the jury's looking like what and so we end up getting a hung jury

and they dismissed that count they dismissed that count took me to sent us to a whole other district New Haven County and I lost on a drug I logged on a drug count

in a racketeering count and they gave me three life sentences so they got rid of the the violence. Because the violence, the violence was hindering their conviction. Because they were, everybody was lying about violence. Because a lot of the times after a mistrial, they, they usually don't pursue it unless they really want to go after you. So they got rid of that one count. It's easy to convict me on drugs. You know, you got 20 people coming in there and said, yeah, I sold for Speedy. It's easy. You know what I'm saying? Testimony is direct evidence in the feds. You don't

have to get caught with nothing. That's the craziest thing about the feds. Like I, in my scenario, I went to trial too. And one, they, overcharge you. Like they stack them up. They stack them up. Yeah, they're never going to put you on trial for like a couple case, a couple counts in like a white collar case. And then literally my business partner went on the stand, lied. My lawyer brought a white board and counted all the times he lied. And they still convicted based off of his testimony. And you can't get it stricken from the record. You can't do anything. They could say whatever and they just use that against you. So you're convicted about three years after he sentenced? I got convicted in 2003.

And you haven't talked to him in all these years? No, we just write. We haven't talked. We just, like, he had write letters. I had to write letters home. Home. And my mother sent it to me. And how are you feeling like to have that close-knitted relationship growing up and now you're separated and you probably feel a little bit guilty that you guys are in this mess?

I do. I do. I felt guilty. And especially when he first received a life sentence, we was in Wyatt together. And he went to go get sentenced. But we're in different blocks at the time. and when he was at the door you know i don't know if you i'm at the door watching him go to his block and i'm like yo what they give you and he just put the l up wow so that was harder for me than

when i received the life sentence that's got to be heartbreaking right there and knowing you can't have that conversation yeah i know it was always like exhilarating seeing guys leave for court that morning and to fight to go to sentencing and then coming back and you just like see that look of defeat on them or anything like that and to know that he got life in prison your own blood brother. They was hoping I get 20. That's crazy. Right?

You're going to get 20. Like we go outside. I go outside to wreck, right? Because by that time, they had separated us on the block. And I guess what a rec yard is and why, you know how you see the windows that look in in the windows. Yeah. And their room was right there.

And we'd be talking to them. How are they going to get you 20, man? You ain't got no record. And none are they going to get you 20. I kept saying you're going to be 20. They ain't giving me no 20, man. 20 was a popular sentence. I was with a lot of guys that got 20 years that would get later commuted by Obama towards

the end. That's crazy. We was hoping we just get a number. 20, 25, 30 years for drugs. How can you hope you get a number for drugs? You know? And that's how it is. So your sentence, where do you go to? I get sentenced. I blow trial. I get three life sentences. They send me to USP Lee.

And where's that? County. That's in Virginia. Now, do you have the same mindset that Lonnie was just speaking about, about having hope? Or are you diverting? Definitely not. So what's your mindset? My mindset is going in there. They gave me all this time.

I'm going to get more money. So what do you get? What's prison like for you? I'm in USP Lee. I'm like, man, I'm coming in here. I still got my ears to the street. I'm coming to get some money. You know, you've been in jail before.

There's more drugs in jail than it's on the street. Oh, it's wild. It's wild. So, and what triggered me is, and that's why God works in mysterious ways, I'm in USP, Lee, and they move me, and I go to a block where's a guy that's from, My project is in there and he's doing like 27 years and he's heavenly he's into religion real hard and when I see him you know you're going to block and you know you see a guy you got all these DC guys Philly, New Orleans, Florida and you see a guy from Bridgeport, Connecticut in there one guy from Bridgeport that you know and I'm like and I was so happy to see him and he moved me in his cell and he knew I was that we was Muslim and we was spiritual in the when we was younger. So he's talking to me like, and I'm like, man, I'm not even nodded like that.

Man, I'm trying to get this. But he stayed in my ear. And eventually, I never did anything that I intended to do when I went to jail. You know, my intentions was to do all kind of stuff. But just being in that cell with him, I got back on my spirituality. And like my brother said, that's what saved me. I used to walk around a wreck. They thought, they said, man, you can't have three life sentences.

Three life sentences because I'm playing basketball. handball, I'm going to the mosque, I'm reading, you know, playing scribble, playing chess, you know. So this is very early on in your prison sentence that you have like this reawakening or journey. So you go in like a young guy swinging, getting into shit you shouldn't be, and you quickly turned into- So you got back to that childhood self again. Exactly. And everything that my father was teaching us resonated.

It came back and you see it. And that made the time ease. It made my time very, I can't say easy because I have five kids and it was hard on them and my parents. But it eased the pain a little bit. Now, you're like the first people I've interviewed that went to a USP in federal prison. So I just want to touch on that aspect of it. Lonnie, what's like the sleeping arrangements like?

Because I'm sure it's a lot different than a dorm room setting that I was in at a low in a camp. the sleeping arrangements so you didn't have the experience the politics of prison so when you in a USP is pure politics right you have what would you call cars

right you have a guy that's just say he from Florida you got the Florida car and you have somebody who's called the shot caller right he's the head of the Florida car meaning like if something happened to keep the piece amongst the compound

Like, if somebody violated from Florida, see somebody from D.C. The shot caller from D.C., it'd go to the shot caller from Florida and be like, listen, your man violated such and such. You know what I'm saying? Y'all need to handle that

before we handle it. You know what I'm saying? We're going to take care of our own. A lot of stuff, it was politics. So the sleeping arrangements is pretty much like that unless you chose to do other. Like, I mean, like,

Florida's going to sleep with Florida. Like, if you're from Florida, I'm a bunky with somebody from Florida. If I'm from D.C., I'm a bunky with somebody from D.C. I'm Muslim. So I don't want nobody in myself but a Muslim because we live a certain way. We pray.

We use a bathroom a certain way. And that's how the sleeping arrangements were. Like, you know what I'm saying? Where I was at. Now, you got some people that wanted to do their own thing and they take anybody in their cell. But with me, I'm like, oh, if he's not Muslim or are he ready to conform to how I use the bathroom and things of that nature and keep myself clean? He can't move in here. Very segregated.

Yeah. Very segregated. You have the whites with the whites. You have the blacks with the blacks. And you have the Mexicans with the Mexicans. and everything is segregated, even the child hall. You see the child hall is the same way. And it's all, you're selled up, right?

It's always what's a lockdown situation? Is there movement? Are you in your cell all day? What's that like? You're talking about just doing time in prison? On a normal day? Yeah, on a normal day. No, you're out all day.

Yeah. But you're locked in at night. Yeah, locked in at night. And it surprised me. Coming from Wyatt and going to the feds, it was like... A resort. Yeah, because why it's like a real jail. And he popped the doors at six.

30, you lock in at 3.30 for count. They let you back out at 4 o'clock and you lock in at 8.30. You're never locked in. You're out all day. You could be outside and a wreck and then back then, I don't know when you came, but back then the food was amazing. Yeah. The food was amazing. You tell them how you want your eggs. Oh, yeah. Eggs the order. Yeah, eggs are the order. Yeah. And the commissary is good. The commissary was great. Now, back to the bathroom thing for one second because I had a certain experience with this what is like the certain ways to use the bathroom and a cell like proper cell etiquette uh because like in my experience i was yelled that for not kneeling down like you have to kneel down on like one knee or whatever see like because you don't want to hear like you want to

sell with somebody right you don't want to hear that pissing noise like man like man like man like me you like man like you're like man right you know what I'm saying you don't want to hear that right so you know if you nail it don't splash all over the place or if you sit like I sit you know what I'm saying like it's mostly like you don't have to but it's good because I want stuff splashing on my clothes you know what I'm saying and it's more like healthier for you right so we sit down and we clean ourselves like we don't just shake our our junk right and how we was taught make sure you shake you know shake it and then you know you're and go all over the place you know we sit down we clean ourselves and you know and we and we get up and that's how we use the problem so being that we

have to pray in our cell a lot of times, you don't want urine all over the cell. So you got to like give certain etiquettes, man. This is how we use the bag. And then people walk with their socks. And you know, if you walk with socks barefoot in your cell and then somebody pissing and then you know, sometimes you don't finish off. Everybody in, you put it back in. He's going on your leg. You already know everybody's experience. Then you're like, ah, man. You know, so you don't, you don't, you don't want that. Now, when you guys went from higher security prisons down to lower security prisons in your journey, did you carry some of that etiquette that was at the USPs and higher security down in the lower? Like, for instance, I would meet guys that still walk to the shower

with their boots on and put a chair. What is like the logic between having your boots to the shower? I never understood that logic. Because if somebody wanted to get you, they wait until you get in the shower and put your flip flops on and then go get you. So I never understood why you just walk to walk to the shower. I didn't understand it, but I did it. I'm like, I guess they said like because, you know, I guess this is a mindset like if somebody try me, I'm ready. But once you get in the shower, they can come up in there while you're in the shower. You can't lock the shower. You know what I'm saying?

But I did it because in a pen, that's what you do, right? And what do you put the chair in front of the shower? You put the chair in front of the shower. I would see guys do that. And you go to the shower with your knife. So you had like a steel rod or something? That's wild. Listen, when I first got to call me, scared me to death.

I've never been to jail before in a prison. I can say scare me to death because they ain't that soft about me. I don't think. But now, they have something what you call, like, what's that? The captain's meeting. Before you, they let you to the car. Captain's review.

Captain's review. So I go in there and they tell me, they see that I ain't ever been to jail before and I got all this time. Oh, yeah. And so, you know, you're in the penitentiary now. You ain't got your family here. You know, they read all your PSI.

You ain't got no guns in here. You better get you a knife. The captain tells me this. Say, because you step on somebody's shoes here or you disrespect somebody. They're going to butcher you. I advise you to get you a knife. Say less.

I went right till I got up there, found some people of honor muslims. I need me a knife. Now, are you seeing violence regularly in these penitentiaries? I did. I was in a penitentiary for 12 years.

I'm sure there's a lot of like sex offender related stuff that the guys that do get sentenced to their, like are they allowed to walk the compound? No, not at all. Not in a penitentiary. So how does that work? Now you find out later on that, you know, this dude,

but sex offenders are like, child molesters and stuff like that yeah so like i've built like a strong social media following because we'll make jokes that i look like a sex offender because i have the glass and whatnot so they say like you didn't do real time you wouldn't last a day in the pen where do they put these sex offenders in because there are ones that get life they're not going to these us they got they got these what they call them the uh like cheese factories and things of that nature yeah they got they got they got in irasona yeah they for those they got like they got certain gels where they put them in their over there. People that told people, child molesters, they got certain jails that they put them there.

And some escape. Some come there and act like they big and tough and they act like, and then you find out later that they was a child molester. Nobody was more harder on like a child molesters than that than the white boys. Then the white boys. They didn't play. Now if you think like if I came to a USP, how do you think I would fare like just by looking at it? No question. They would have made, you would have to get your paperwork ASAP. You're right there. All right. I had to have that. All right, so let's talk paperwork. By the way, this is paperwork. So whatever me and my brother say can be substantiated and verified.

And verified right here. So I brought my paperwork. So it's my PSR, my pre-cenders report, and my sentencing transcripts, and my docket sheet. Man, I love you guys. We're going to be friends, man. So how does paperwork checking work at the USP? What was like your first experience with that? Well, they never, I got the USP Lee.

and it was guys from Connecticut. They just told me, it was like, listen, man, we know your case, because they knew my case. I had a big case out of Connecticut, so, but I'm like, my paperwork could be here. They was like, nah, we don't got, I said, no, my paperwork can be here. So my paperwork came, and they called a little meeting,

and I showed them my PSR, my PSR, and my, sentencing transcripts. And, you know, they go over, you get a guy who's at that time, he's the paperwork checker, and he checks your paperwork, and he's like, okay, he's good. I'm like, I know I'm good. You know, so, and that's how that works. Do you have a certain amount of time to show it?

Where, I mean, years later when, yeah, it was, we had 30 days, Connecticut car. If you was from Connecticut or the tri-state, you had 30 days to show your paperwork. And if it didn't check out, it's pack your shit go over the shoe. You got to get out of here. Unless you get an extension, unless you show proof that it's on this way. Okay. Or did you guys ever do time in the shoe during your sentence? Months.

Months, yeah. Yeah. What was the longest, like, you guys spent in the shoe? I did eight months. I did not. And what is this for? It was for investigation. Just for whatever?

No, it was a brawl. It was a fight. This is before you reform in prison. No, I reformed. But I just had, I had a, I reformed. But I mean, attitude problem. Yeah, attitude. I wouldn't be able to tell me out.

I like sports. Okay. So I like to play basketball. You already know. And then when you get to jail and when you get there, it's like, it's different cultures. So you have certain people that invite you to their private. Where I'm from, you don't do that. And there's certain people from different places.

There's no problem for them to invite you to their private parts. They sex play. And they sex, you're, you've been there. You know what I'm saying? You know how they say. So when they, you know, and they say, yo, you. And they invite you to their private parts. That's automatic goal.

I don't care who you with. I don't care who you are. I don't care. Y'all going to have to beat me down. If you play with me like that, it's automatic on site. Three things you can do. You can't invite no man to your private parts. You can't call them no homosexual in prison, like if you're not.

And you can't say he's a rat if you know. not. That's, that's violent. I learned that, like, very quickly because where I come from, like, the way we grew up, it was casual for my friends to say, like, yo, suck my dick, or, like, whatever, just like that. That's this new era. Yeah. That's what they do down. I see that all the time with these kids. They're like, you're a bitch, this and that just as a joke. So I'm playing a card game one day, and I said that and the, like, the dude checked me, got up because he came from, like, a medium. He's like, dude, I know you're like, you're brand new here. But if you say that, like, you're going to get yourself fucking hurt. No. If you say that, oh, man.

I literally had no idea because that was just like normal. Because literally, no, for real. I don't seen people lose their life in prison for what to come out of their mouth. No joke. Lose their life. People that say, this dude is a rat and the dude wasn't a rat. And he kept spreading stuff like that or whatever, you know what I'm saying? And I've seen a dude lose his life like that.

Now commissary food, do you guys have microwaves or not at the penitentiaries? Penitentiary. When we first came in, they had microwaves. Okay. They started taking them like, yeah, after my, like my 15th year. No, I was in Raybrook in 2015. Yeah, we still had microwaves. Now, how do you guys cook food without the microwave for commissary?

Just hot water. They have the hot water dispensers. And you have stingers. Did you ever use a stinger? I seen the guys use it to make alcohol. Like the white. Oh, they make the hoots. To make the hoot.

So you know what white lightning is? Okay. So I posted a TikTok video about how they used honey to make white lightning. and everyone said that's not how you make it or whatever. Any type of sugar. Can you just explain that process? I don't know how to make it. But they do use honey.

They do use any sugar. And they boil it down? They boil it down. Thank you. I don't know. That's why they stopped selling sugar in the prisons because they was making it. You couldn't even buy everything was sugar-free. We used to get jolly ranchers.

They were melting down. Yeah. Hooch. I remember the first time I went to the bathroom at Fort Dix because they're these old beat up bathrooms and the Mexicans are removing the bricks. They have a rope and they're pulling out this big bag of hooch. And it's, And it's just got, it's like all covered in mold.

This is what people are drinking it. I was in a place where they sold sugar-free in Canaan. It would they show sugar-free everything. So a guy come from, say, another gel and have Jolly Ranchers. He would sell a bag of Jolly Ranchers for $15. That's crazy. That's what a bag of Jolly Ranchers went for, $15. Three books.

Yeah, three books. Three books of staves. Now, Hustles. Lonnie, what's your present hustle? My present hustle is that I'm a hustler, so I had, I had stores. Oh, you're the store guy? I was a store guy. So how does that process work being the commissary guy?

And I was, no, I wasn't the commissary guy. Oh, you're the store. So what's the difference between the commissary guy and the store guy? You know, you buy stuff from commissary and you do a markup in your store, in your cell, right? And also I worked in the kitchen on common fare, right, like with the Jewish mills, the common fare people that take the common fare. Yeah. So now, you know, when you got a good. good relationship with the kitchen supervisor or whatever, they let you take bell peppers or tuna

that they had on there, honey buns. And then you hustle like that and you sell it to people that's on a compound. I can't get it. But most of my money came from like my store or my prison store. I had like one of the biggest stores on the compound. And how much money you make it a week from this? I mean, jail-wise, probably like, probably like $200 a week. Are you able to convert that into physical cash? Oh, absolutely, because you get stamps and people like to gamble. I didn't gamble. People like to gamble. I stopped gambling once I went to prison. So they'd be like, yo, how many books of stamps you got? I said, I got about 100 books of stamps.

That's $500. I get you for $350. They send me $350. You know what I'm saying? To my books, I send it home to my family and they put it on my books. Now, what's the currency on the compound back in the 90s? Is it the mackerel pouch? Where I was at, it was stamps.

Just stamps. Stamps. Yeah, where I was at was stamped. So when, this is interesting, when did it become like the mackerel through your... Different places do different things. Because when I went to Ed, soft, Edgefield, South Carolina. It was macro. Okay. That's interesting. I'm trying to find out like where the origination of that came from.

You can make the money anything. Dang. That's what jail does. Because the ticket man, the gambling man, he controls the comp. And say whatever. So, Lyle, what was your prison hustle? My prison hustle was I had to. I own the store. I own the store like my brother. I had a couple of them. And I worked in a butcher shop for years. So I was in charge. And we had microwave. So I was in charge. I had all the raw meat. Wow.

Pause. I had all that young boy stuff. Yeah, I had all the raw products. So, you know, in Italians, you know, they like, they don't like to go to child. They big. They like to cook. They meet balls on the weekend, football and all that type stuff. So, you know, I bring them all the ground beef, the steaks, raw steaks, and they cook, the turkey, you know, yeah, so, you know. And what's crazy, right, to see how you see how to cultivate it is? We couldn't, we haven't

spoken. But basically we're doing the same hustle without even, I even know he was doing this until he until like we was able to talk. It's like that spiritual connection. You're like, yo, we're going find a way how to get it. How to get money. What's your relationship like with your kids as they're getting older? When do they realize like their dads are spending life in prison? What's that like a conversation? In the beginning, we kept it from like I was in school. I was in college, right? So my daughters come see me, especially at Wyatt. I'm in college. We don't like daddy college no more. You can't even touch them, right? Because you know, why they got the glass up and all. And then as they started getting older, you know what I'm saying? They're like that. You ain't in school now.

You've been to school like the last six years. What are you talking about? They're about 10, 11 now, right? And then I just sat down and told them like, you know, I'm in prison. I ain't telling them I had life. I had a little knucklehead cousin who's in everybody's business. You're about the age who knew everything going to tell my daughters that I had a life sentence because they never knew how much time I had. He's like, dad, when you come on? I'll be soon. Yeah. Was it hard for your dad to be this community figure and have both of his son? in the news spending life in prison. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I know, and we used to talk all the time, you know. And a lot of it, he had backlash because, you know, what his, you know, and it was a lot of stuff that was false about me and my,

it was written false about me and my brother. And a lot of it had to do with just being a smack in the face to him towards him because he was such an activist and he always stood behind us. You know, he didn't agree with what we did, you know, and he always told us, listen here, man, you're going to do, you're going to do time. He always agreed that we should do some time. He just didn't agree with how much time we got. He knew we wasn't bad kids.

We made some mistakes. And they act like the mistakes we made wasn't redeemable. And so that's what his thing was, come on, man. Like 10 years, I mean, people getting 15, 20 years for killing people for murder. My kids, first time going to jail and you giving them a life sentence for drugs that you don't have from testimony. You know, it was unfair. So he fought for us in that aspect, you know. And a lot of it, a lot of the stuff was done.

I feel a lot of stuff that happened to us was done, you know, as a smack in the face towards him. How many years go by until you guys get your first glimmer or hope that there could be something other than life in prison for you? Well, with me, I exhausted all my pills, almost all my pills. But I always kept hope and I just put frivolous things in court. anything that came out, I'd be like, I'm putting it in. Just to have the fight. And it was February of 2019. We was on lockdown.

I was in Gilmer. And they slid a letter under my door as a public defender. What was her name? Kelly. Kelly Barrett. They said, you potentially can get some type of relief off the new first step back. And I'm like, we're on lockdown. So I'm getting a little excited.

but I've been shot down so many times. I'm like, whatever, man, you know. So we come off lockdown and I actually called them. I call my parents first. I'm like, man, they said, she's like, we'll call him. So I call them. I say, yeah, I want you all to do my pill or whatever. She said, okay, she said, I can't promise you anything.

So she was optimistic about everything, you know. So I asked my mother, I said, did LT get his? She was like, no, not yet. Because I think I was one of the first ones they reached out to. and then eventually they reached out. I guess either you reached out to them or they reached out to you. She sent me the letter and I ripped it up. Because you were just done with it.

I said, I mean, mine is a different way. What year is this for you guys? 2019. But like how many years in? I had 19 years in. Yeah, 19 years. We had 19 years. Little over 19 years.

Little over 19 years. Okay. And you got this. When does like the hope come? Well, I hear Lewis had text me. You're communicating with Lewis, Al, Yeah, yeah. Really?

Because me in Braybrook together. Wow, that's awesome. So Lewis is texting me all. He's like, yo, I got something for you. I'm like, he always just talking. He's a good talking. So he said, yo, it's a new law. It's a new law coming out, man, I'm working on.

You working on a new law. He's free. He's free. He's free. He went home, I think, in 2013, 14, from Raybrook. We was in Raybrook together. Okay. And yeah, so he's out there.

And, yeah, then it started gaining momentum. Then I see Van Jones on TV. And they're talking about it. But I'm like, I got three life sentences. You know, so what are they going to do for me? So at that point, I'm saying, well, what if they just give me like 35 years? And I get a number.

I'm banking. That's all I wanted. It was 30, 35 years. So I could see something like that. Be home before. I'm 55, 60 years old. That's what I was hoping. And then my brother go, he went in front of the judge first.

No, he went second. I had another co-defendant. This is for resentencing? Resent. They remanded us back to court for resentencing. Because of this new law that passed. Okay. So who gets re-sentence first? Do you do? And what do you get sentenced to? I got released from court. Right then and there. Right from court. So you went to court from prison, not know it. You were planning on coming back that day. Yeah, I didn't, listen, when backtrack a little bit, when I got the letter, I ripped it up, right? The lawyer calls my counselor. I have a legal call. And she's telling me about the first day. I'm like, yeah, all right. Right. And then she told me, I said, yeah, I said, but I got, because it's basically about crack.

She said, yeah, I said, but I got a lot of heroin in my case. He said, yeah, but don't worry about that. Right? Because every time we put motions in, they'd be like, yeah, you, when Obama signed the crack law, yeah, it applies to you, but the amount of heroin y'all was selling is still going to get a license. So that's my thought. I'm like, yeah, all right, this ain't this crack law, whatever, but I got heroin, too. She said, I'm telling you, this is going to help you.

I'm going to get you out, right? This is what she tell me. See, I'm going to try my best to get you out. So they strategically plan, so all my code offenses is getting these letters now because it might apply to us. But they strategically plan to do me first because I'm the easiest one. I don't have no violence. I don't have no pass.

And my prison record is impeccable, right? Yeah. You know, I was like the model prisoner. I did a lot of programs. You know, I did all this stuff, right? And so I go to court and we have a new judge, man, listen, a good thing we had a new judge, you know what I'm saying? And the prosecution going hard because you know, if they give it to me that everybody comes home. So they're fighting against this?

Oh, they're going super hard. I thought like I was a terrorist or something. She, man, she was saying stuff. I'm like, yo, are you saying? I've been in 20 years. Yeah. But she was going so hard, right? And mind you, not to cut you off, this is the same prosecutor from 20 years ago.

The same one. The same prosecutor. That's usually not normal. The male retired, but she was the female. She was the female. Okay. And this is back. You're back in Connecticut.

Yeah, I'm back in Connecticut. So, okay, you're back in Connecticut. You go to this hearing. Yeah. But you don't think anything of it. No, I'm just hoping like, you know, I said maybe, maybe, maybe not. right, but all my family in there, you know what I'm saying? They got family matter shirts on, right?

All dressed in black, right? So it's courthouse pack, right? And there's a black judge now, right? Used to be in the NACP. So he knows the unfairness and he's a fair judge, you know, so my lawyer making an argument, I speak, you know what I'm saying? Tell him, like, you know, my plans of what I do if I'm able to get out, you know what I'm saying?

And he had a recess. Lewis and Van Jones team is there. Really? The first step team, yeah. Yeah, they did. The first step back team that passed the bill, they did with the cameras and everything. Wow. Because those are like, yo, you coming home, right?

Oh, my God, my face with that, man. You know what I'm saying? I don't want that hope, you know what I'm saying? My parents been hearing that for the last 20 years, right? So the judge come back and give me immediate, I'm sending you to time serve. And what's that feeling like going through your head? I just sat there, right?

And just like tears just started coming out. You know what I'm saying? Like, yo, all the work. that we had to put in, all the money that was spent, right? And I thought about saying, this is the mercy of God, right? Because he let me know, like, your money couldn't get you out. Your lawyers couldn't get you out. I sent you a public defender.

You know what I'm saying? Out of nowhere, and you got released from prison. I saw all of them, I'm just sitting in. I'm just started crying. My lawyer hugged me, right? She put her hand on me. And I said, thank you, man. And then they sent me in to put me in the back.

My little brother ran, my little brother had a change of clothes for me. A little tight stuff they wear now. And I walk out of the courtroom, man, there's everybody. He got on Facebook live, so everybody that knew me. You know, like the city showed love. They all came to see me. It's a beautiful thing. And if you watch the first step movie, right, the first step documentary, at the end,

I'm the first one walking out. That's awesome. Like, I'm on the cover of it. Like, he's the poster board for the first step act. movie. Because you're like one of the first people. He's literally on when, if you go on Amazon Prime and you put your first step movie. I heard that came out recently, right? Okay, that's what Lewis and him.

Yeah, his picture is on. I'm walking out of courtroom. That's a, I can't imagine what that feeling's like to go into that courtroom knowing that you spend the rest of your life in prison and to get out like as a free man. And the thing is, we were, me and him was scheduled to the, it was like a day apart to get resentenced. Yeah. So your sentence.

But they postponed my date. So now I'm in Brooklyn. Coming from Gilmer, I'm in Brooklyn. And I find out he gets released because I'm on my way to Wyatt, and he gets released. And I was so happy. It was like a relief for me. How did you find out? That he got relief?

I called home. When I called my brother, my younger brother, he's like, he home. And I said, I was like, yes, man, yes. That's awesome. I'm still, I'm like, okay, he had gave his time back and had 27 years. He didn't have a life sentence. He had 27 years with the obnox. was it Obama?

Or it was one of them laws that came back, he got 27. I still had three life sentences. Oh, so he was already off of life by the time that same third. And this was another resentencing. Right. It's another resentencing. So you couldn't get anything under Obama's new laws or anything? I had three.

They shot me down. The same thing they gave him 27 years because I had violence. Yeah. I had recall and recall conspiracy. So I had three life sentences. So they, um, was that at the end of Obama's term when he got commuted down to 27? No, this was, this was 08. Oh, this is all eight.

in, you were still in. Was it fierce sentencing in that? I don't know what I can't read it. So then what happens to you after? What happens to me? I go back to where he just got resentenced. I go in front of the same judge and he tells me, okay, I'm going to decide. It sends me back to why. He don't let me out like he lets him out. He didn't let you know that day. No. So now I'm like, so now I had two other co-definance that went like a couple days after me, right? He told him the same thing, so we're all in wide. So about a month and some change goes by, I'm like, man, just please, just give me 30 years. And somebody sent word that my two co-defendants were leaving.

They got immediate release on a Friday afternoon. And I'm like, yo, what about me? And they was like, nah, not yet. You ain't heard? I'm like, oh. That's got to be a dreadful. And they went to court after me. They went to court after me and they getting a release before me.

So this was on a Friday. So Monday, I'm sitting there playing spades and I'm looking at the counselor's office. Every time the phone ring, I'm looking. I'm looking. Nothing. So about 4 o'clock in the afternoon, it was lock in time. I work out. I come out.

I'm taking a shower to see you call me. He said, yo, your lawyer said caller is very important. So now, mind you, the whole block knows what I'm waiting for. They all stop what they're doing. Now I'm nervous. My hands are shaking. I go sit down on the phone. Everybody crowds around me and wide.

and I call and I can't remember my lawyer's number so I call my wife so I down my wife number and she said immediate release right I'm like hold up hold up hold up she said immediate release she said it just came down you got a media release so everybody's like what is the verdict and I put my thumbs up and everybody jumped up I told you he was going on we had a big party that night and all that and yeah and I ended up coming home and it's funny because I dream I dreamed of that day so many times that before I went to bed that night, actually I wasn't sleeping, but I kept dozing off. I wrote on a piece of paper, yeah, that is true. And I put it on the wall. So now when I dozed off and I had my eyes closed, I said, please. And I peaked open, my eyes opened up and on the wall said, yeah, this is true. And I'm like, yeah, 5 o'clock in the morning, they popped them doors. And I went home.

So you get released from prison, you go home. what's that first reuniting like between you two? Oh, you didn't send him the video? Oh, no, he don't have the video. Oh, man, you guys are hiding the goods for me. Oh, I got to see the video. You got to see the video. They released me, and I was supposed to go to the courtroom that he was released from, right?

While I'm on the van from the jail, but they rerouted me and sent me to New Haven County because it was too many people out there and all that. So I come home. They have a party for me that. night. He's there? No, he's living in North Carolina. He lives in North Carolina. So I talked to him. He's like, man, my probation. He said, my probation officer wouldn't let me come down, but I'm see you. You know, I'm going. Hopefully I see you soon. You know, we talk and he's happy that I'm home and all that. So they threw a party for me, like, get together. And I'm in there and I'm eating. Like, all my family friends, my kids, everybody. And I hear all this ruckus at the door. And everybody looking at me and they're looking at the door. And I'm like, what are they doing? What was going on? And it's him. So we start walking towards each other and we just, I mean, and we just start break down.

I'm about to break down now. Yeah, it was crazy because I haven't seen him and I haven't seen my brother 18 years. And how old are you guys each at this point in time when this happens? I was 45. I was 47, 48, 47 and he was 45. 20 years later. 20 years later. But we ain't seen each other in 18.

We ain't seen each other in 18 years. What's the first words you guys say like after? your moment after you guys are crying and you hug each other what's the first word i don't even remember i just hug them man just like all that only thing i do is i just look at the video because i don't even remember like the video i'm like i did that i was crying like that because it shows me like boo hoeing like i'm a baby and i don't remember all of that because i was just so caught up in the moment you know what i'm saying because you're talking about like your best friend growing up not just my brother my best friend growing up and to not be around him for 18 years and just

We corresponded, we had finally got email correspondence because we was, we was, uh, yeah, it allowed us to do that. Allow us to get email correspondence, you know, so, um, yeah, but it's the first time I'm seeing them. Do you think that moment solidified, like, even more for you guys that you weren't going to ever go back to what you were doing before? Oh, absolutely. Yes.

Absolutely. Yes. But, I mean, even before that, but we knew, like, listen, I'm not putting my parents or my kids ever through this, you know what I'm saying? And that's what we did. Like, we came home, we joined. And didn't look back. Do you think your kids had hard time growing up at school with their fathers away?

Like getting teased, made fun of, anything like that? I don't think they got teased, but I just think they just, just the lack of having that father figure there. Yeah. They all lacked that, you know what I'm saying? And I was there as much, me, my daughters have a beautiful relationship. I got three daughters. We have a beautiful relationship now.

And I always try to be in there like, I would call them all the time. And I had a hustle. So if they needed things, right? I would send them money. Yeah. They're like, yo, dad taking care of me from prison. Like, they can never say anything bad about their father. You know what I'm saying?

They need to say, I made it happen. I don't think the outside world really realizes that. Like, you could use your, like, a commissary account, like a bank. Like, you could send those checks. You could do all that. No question. Because you have no overhead in there. Yeah.

You don't have light bill. You don't have, if you don't really have a food bill. If you just eat three. And then we didn't have no habits. We didn't drink. I didn't drink a gamble. Gambling or nothing. We had no.

So everything was profit for us. Yeah. What was like the hardest things to reintegrate into when you guys got out after all these years? Technology. Yeah. Social media technology. That's it. I still don't know how to use my phone.

And I got an I-10. An iPhone. An iPhone. I got an I-10. You're a few years behind. This is a 10. You got four bucks. Man, I'm scared.

Yeah, I'm scared to get a 13 or 14 because it might be too complicated. What about like relationships and intimacy and things like that to go that long without that? Like I know how I felt after just a measly three years. What's it like for you guys? We're shot. Yeah. We're burnt.

We look normal, right? And my wife would tell you like, listen, like far as like, yo, the intimacy, like, because you so used to like sleeping by yourself for 20 years. So like it's not normal for us to be around like our spouse or whatever and just like touch you. You know what I'm saying? Because it was just me for 20 years. That's not normal. Like we were laying in a bed, right?

And he tell me the same story. Like when I first came home, I lay in the bed with my wife, right? And I stayed in a little quiet. corner, you're like, why you won't touch me? I'm like, oh, my bad. But that's just, it just, it was embedded in you. Like, you don't mean nothing by it, but it's just that you're talking about, they will never understand if you, when you do 20 years, you live in a certain way with another man in a cell.

The affection, you're not showing another man affection. You just, it's just you for 20 years and you're sleeping in a twin-sized bed. And you try to sleep against the wall because the wall's nice and cool and all that. And I'm used to that. My wife used to say I was crazy because at 3.30, I had to go home and take a nap because that was count time for years. And I needed a nap. If I didn't get my 3.30 nap because I took my nap every day at count time. Yeah. Yeah. And I be irritable. But I'm okay now. But that's, it messed you up. Jail messed you up. Yeah. I mean, I just, you guys know I only did a couple of years. But like,

I feel like there's some scenarios where I don't even like to be touched or I don't like to be like, I'm very like I won't even like shower really in front of someone like I'm just like it's very weird and those stuff we stem from that certain things just like going barefoot anywhere or just like changing in front of people like I was at the airport last weekend like back in the day before prison I'd be happy to change in front of someone but it just wasn't normal to do in prison yeah so just like things like things like but I think the touching things probably one of the biggest things and like interacting with like professionals that are like counselors or whatever because it's like that dynamic that when you're in prison, it's just a different relationship.

Like if I'm going to a doctor or something, it's like so much different on the free world than it is dealing with them like inside prison. And another big thing I know we both share this is like empathy, right? I don't have it because we've been through so much going through what we went through in prison. Like, yo, you had to suck it up. You couldn't show no like like no sign of weakness in prison. Like you know, man, this man lay down.

your time, man. And we ain't trying to hear that. You know what I'm saying? So you built that like whatever somebody going through, it tomorrow will be a better day. That ain't about nothing. Like with us, there's so many family members passed away. And we went through a lot while we was in, like, my wife just passed away. I'm sorry. Yeah, she did time. She passed away a year and a half, about two years ago. And she did the whole bid with me. She did a whole, she did 15 years with me in jail. And when I come home and I was home a year and a half, And she had stage four cancer since 2013, 2013, 2014. And she did the whole bid with me.

And she held down strong until I got home. And after a year and a half, I was home, she passed away. So it was like, you know, you build up this tough guy image while you're in, like, not tough guy image, but it's hard for you to. You become hard. Yeah, you become hard because I've seen my grandparents die. I had three of my grandparents died who I was very close to. And they all died.

Our uncle that was our cold defendant passed away. Yeah, one of my uncles, he passed away. He was my cold defendant. He passed away in prison. So you become cold. You're surrounded by like, yeah. So it's like you got to suck it up. Yeah.

Because what you're going to do, walk around a yard, moping all day. So it's like, you know, you got to put it in the back. Does your pass, does her passing make you more motivated now because she was there for you that whole time? She was my biggest supporter. Yeah. She was my biggest supporter. She was my backbone.

She's my everything. So exactly. Everything I do is because of her. You know, she, I didn't know how to, I didn't know because we used to keep money. We never kept money in banks. We kept cutting safes all over the place. You know what I'm saying? You guys still dig it up safe.

I didn't have credit cards. When we went and bought cars, we bought cars with cash or we went through somebody else to get them. You know what I'm saying? So when I came home, I didn't know how to pay bills. And lucky COVID, fortunate that COVID was. So now she sat down and she taught me how to pay bills. She taught me how to open my bank account.

She taught me all the little things that, you know, everybody been doing, you know, for years. I learned like maybe in like three, four months during COVID. And yeah, so she. Everything changed, digital banking and all that. Everything. We didn't have it. I didn't know how to deposit a check online.

Yeah. From your phone, right? From your phone. I mean, from your phone. What are like some habits that have stuck with you guys? since prison coming out that you're using now in the real world. Discipline. Yeah.

Discipline and focus, you know. You learned that in jail. You had to be disciplined, like, in what you want, like, whether it was your religion or whatever you believed in. And your focus, like, we had plans to focus on getting out of prison and doing things once we get out. So that discipline and focus still remain. Yeah. What about, like, things like making your bed? Like, I make my bed a certain way.

from like the blanket at the end, the white blanket. He brings shower shoes to the shower in the house. I don't know, man. I don't do that, man. But I did get in the shower with my boxers on a couple of times. Yeah. So at the USP, did you wash your boxers in the shower? Yeah, sometimes.

What's like the logic behind that? You watch because you don't want to get jockage from the, you know, you put your stuff in netbags and they watch you with a thousand other inmates. You ain't trying to wash your underwear with. You've been up here where they don't have watches and jars. Yeah, I had a washerer dry. Yeah, he paid a guy three mackerel or whatever. We had them at first, we had them at first, but then they stopped. They stopped the washes and dryers.

They stopped the microwaves. They stopped all that. So now you wash your boxers in the shower. So you guys get home three years ago now, four years ago. I love that you guys like came full circle. You started together. You stayed tough. You never like went against each other.

You guys did the time. You came out. Now you're building a business again. So, Lyle, what's your message to someone that maybe came from the same background and was it never expecting to get into crime but found themselves making that decision to do it? What would you tell that person? Tell that person to what we always say. Learn from those that came before you, what to do and what not to do.

You've seen what I did. You've seen all the money to cars and you've seen where it landed me. Take somebody from your high school that was an accountant or a banker and see you. where they're at. So you learn from me and you learn from them. And then you make a conscious decision. That's it. It's easy. Life is easy. As long as you learn from those that came before you, everything is good. But when you neglect to look at the signs or what happened and you just look at what that guy had, like there's a lot of kids that's in the street that they hear stories about me. And they'd be like, man, and I'd be like, that wasn't about nothing. I said, yeah,

I had all that money. But in the first three years, I was in prison. I was broke. I was calling my parents for commissary money. Millions of dollars. You're talking about the first three years. You know who got it? The feds got it. My lawyers got it. Bonds got it.

Bond men got it. So don't follow me. I did 20 years. You want to do 20 years? You know? So I'm saying, stand, straight and narrow. Those guys that I went to school with that's,

man, they so well off. And they just gradually. And they used to look at me like, man, you got a nice car. And they was in their little hoopty. I get out 20 years later. Now, they're in mansions. You understand what I'm saying?

So they learn from those that came before you. It's like the kids that want to get into the streets. Like that know us, they be like, man, you're a legends. And I'd be like, a legend in what? Are you guys cautious of letting your kids watch shows like power or BMF or any of those shows that kind of like idolize those? Yeah, all our kids is grown. So even if they were watching it, you wouldn't, would you could have?

I can't even tell them they get, don't watch it. Yeah. No, but like the thing is like, you know, like me and my daughters have conversations and they know like, you know what I'm saying, all right, that's the what it is. But, because see, a lot of the movies, right, they show all this, right? All this glamour, all this, the wealth, whatever, whatever, the parties and the women and this.

But they don't show, they just show them getting arrested. Then it's the end of the movie. They don't show your success story after and the child. They don't show what you went through after all that. A lot of times in the movie, he did all us, then he get killed. Oh, but all he remember is the shine he was doing. They don't show the years in jail. The years of people dying, the years of people leaving you, people betraying you.

It don't show none of that. You know what I'm saying? In the movie. So all they see is like, oh, yeah, he had this in the movie boom-a-boom, then it goes off. Or he got arrested and it goes off. No, show what happened. Show like, yo, yeah, he was married and this wife had five dudes around his kid. I ain't talking about my situation.

I'm just saying in general. I have five dudes around his daughter, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. His son calling three men daddy and all this. Show all that what you're going through. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, Lonnie, if you could look at your 20-year-old self right now in the mirror,

what would you say to that person? What's your advice to get him to not make the choices that he was about to make? Being that we didn't know the consequences, but what I could tell him now is what my father always told us. Like, you know what I'm saying? That ain't about nothing. In the end, you're going to lose. Like my brother said, look at those that came before you.

Everybody that was doing this and doing that 10 years ago or 15 years ago, where are they? Like, even in the Quran, it says you're like, look at the nations that came before you and see how they ended up. I mean, from the evil that they was doing. Every evil that we did or somebody did 15, 20 years ago, where they're at? So just look at it. If you're going to follow that same path, what makes you think your destiny is going to be any different?

Yeah. It's not going to happen. You know, so I have something like, like, you're already, you've seen. You've seen, we had uncles and stuff like that that did this. and went to prison multiple times. But yet, we thought we could do something different. There's no right way in doing the wrong thing. And that's what we thought.

Yeah, long as we don't touch no drugs, long as we don't do this, long as we don't do that, we good. Come a different way. What's your relationship like with your father now? Amazing. Yeah. My parents.

Listen, he's living his best life now. He's at peace. We got his boys home, all three of us back together. We got multiple businesses, you know what I'm saying, family business, and we're doing what we're supposed to do. You know what I'm saying? We got a nonprofit foundation that he started 30 years ago that we've taken over now, along with my little brother, who's the president of it, helping the youth, not make the choices that we made.

So we're doing a lot of things now, and he's loving it. Like, he's like, he's telling me, like, I don't know if you know the story of Jacob in the Bible and in the Quran, like when he lost his family. And God restored back his family to him, you know what I'm saying? He said, I feel like Jacob. I could die peacefully now. You know what I'm saying? That's how he felt. If you could take everything back, would you?

or do you think that it was good to bring you to where you guys are now? The thing is we had to go through this. You know what I'm saying? Because not even so much, like, just like spiritually where we're at and mentally where we're at. I feel we had to go through this to be where we at now. I mean, it was part of the plan. Yeah. Well, Lonnie Lyle, thank you guys so much for coming on the show today.

It was a real pleasure. I'm, you know, really excited to get to, like, know, you guys more and, you know, build a relationship with you guys, Lewis, you know, everyone we bring on is great. And you guys are just awesome, man. Thank you. Yeah, you guys really doing good. Like, I've been watching some of your stuff and reading, like, the articles and stuff. And I'm, I'm excited to see where it goes, you know, in the future. Where can, like, people find you at and stuff now? Or do you guys have, like, a website for what you got going on or anything? Yeah, well, we have, we have the trifecta. That's your clothing bird? No, trifecta is our

event space. Oh, you guys got an event space. Yeah. We have Queens Delight, which is a, The brunch spot we told you about, we have a trucking company, J.B. Elite Trucking, and we also have pre-game sports restaurant that we just, that's opening up in the middle of May. Where's that? That's in Stratford, Connecticut, right outside, Bridgeport. Got a new spot. I better be at the Grand Open. Yeah, I'm invited you to the Grand Opening.

Awesome. Yeah. And you guys are both still living in Bridgeport, right? I'm in Florida. He's in Florida. I live in Trumbull right outside. Trumbull. Really?

Awesome, guys. Well, thank you for coming on the show today. Thank you. Thank you.