Locked In with Ian Bick - Busted by the DEA: Wiretap with a Drug-Dealing Priest Sends Me to Federal Prison | Kristy Laschober

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

Kristy Laschober shares her unbelievable story of distributing meth through the mail, getting caught on a wiretap with a drug-dealing priest, and ultimately being arrested by the DEA and sent to federal prison. In this episode, we dive deep into her experiences in the world of drug trafficking, the shocking events that led to her capture, and the harsh realities of life behind bars. #MethTrafficking #DrugDealingStory #DEAArrest #FederalPrisonLife #WiretapInvestigation #DrugCartel #CrimeAndPunishment #RealLifeCrimeStory Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Kristy Laschober: IG: https://www.instagram.com/kristylaschober/?hl=en Website: https://www.kristylaschober.com Buy her book: https://www.amazon.com/Perfectly-Flawed-Uncovering-Greatest-Purpose/dp/B0C79R59V6/ref=zg_bs_2445_sccl_47/135-8935526-3116821?psc=1&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaYkXvM-GsuDj2jQStlAKR0g-6HkV1ljzaVmrLF3GXsNWbeCNf_4ZRwE5Nk_aem_EV_JZ-p_s_C0jYP1c_WUHw Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Introduction to "Perfectly Flawed" 00:06:46 Transition to Wardrobe Stylist 00:11:31 Overcoming Addiction: A Personal Story 00:17:43 Reflecting on Family Influence and Personal Choices 00:24:00 Realizing the High-Risk Environment 00:30:42 The Priest Meth Scandal 00:36:43 Facing 10 Years in Prison: The Arrest 00:42:37 Chaos and Violence in Detention 00:48:10 Life Decisions in Prison 00:54:12 Challenges in the ARAP Program 01:00:06 Life Inside a Maximum Security Medical Facility 01:06:01 Misconceptions About Prison Life 01:11:46 Navigating Life After Prison 01:17:57 Passing the Oregon College Application Law 01:23:31 Intrusive Thoughts After Prison 01:29:31 Embracing Spontaneity in Life and Business 01:35:04 Logistics and Coordination Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Wayfair, every style, every home. Christy, welcome to Lockton. I'm glad we can make this happen on such short notice. You guys texted me yesterday and it worked out. I had a cancellation today and we got you here. It was awesome. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. And you're you've been a listener of the show too. I have. Yeah. I love the show. Awesome. And you're also a author. You wrote this book perfectly flawed that you genuinely brought us a copy of. Yeah. And we'll have the links in the description of this episode for people to check out. What is this book about? So it is 33 short chapters of, it's like an interactive book. So I talk about my journey of growing up through just a regular childhood, through incarceration, and then what the heck am I going to do when I get out? And why did I end up here? And now what am I going to do?

And then at the end of every chapter, I ask the reader questions about their life to get them to be self-reflective. And so there's room to write. at the end, I'm hoping that they'll see parts of their life that they never thought of before. And that's definitely an interesting take that you've used, like, prison as like a kind of self-help type book, too. Right. That's definitely, I don't think there's many that are out there like that, that are interactive. Well, I think it's so important because I learned that women in prison, it's like a trauma hospital, is what I say. And so why do people end up there? And so I think it's really important for us to realize that it's not because, you know, We're terrible people.

It's because of either trauma or past things that no one's really thought about or women just are strong and don't cry and you do what you have to do. But then it takes time to unravel a little bit of that to be like, wow, I see this situation, you know, started me on the path of going down this road. And then you kind of see the way the road winds. And then you're like, oh, wow, there's a few times. I'm like, well, you know, a wonder I ended up here. Yeah, it's crazy how life takes us. And you're obviously someone that doesn't look like they've ever been in prison. I'm sure people are shocked when you tell them.

Right. Yes. Now, did you grow up in Connecticut or somewhere else? I grew up in Orange County, California. So this is my first time back in Connecticut. Like right now as a free person. Oh, wow. Well, welcome back.

Thank you. Yeah, most of the women that were incarcerated, they went to FCI Danbury. So it's always like weird for them to return. because we're like 10 minutes from there. Right. That was one of the questions I asked you outside, and you said you hadn't been to the Danbury prison, because there's not that many female federal prisons.

There isn't. I did go to Dambury, but that's only because Conair took me to Newark, and I was on my way to Wyatt, which was the pre-detention. I was there. Oh, you were at Wyatt. Yep, and I went on Con Air at Newark. We'll get into all that later. Okay, we'll get into that.

So Wyatt forgot about me. So after everyone They all got in the van to go wherever they were going to go, the men and women. And I was left. And so they said, come on with us to Danbury. But then they put me in the shoe because I wasn't really supposed to be there. So that was my only one-night horror shoe experience was in Danbury. So Orange County, what was that like growing up?

Did you have a mom, dad, siblings at all? Yeah. I had a mom and dad. I have one sister that's younger. I grew up really close to Disneyland. We went there every summer for our birthdays. My father was a bartender at Disneyland hotel, and then he opened his own cabinet shop.

And so my mom stayed home. It was a normal childhood. One thing when I was born, I had medical issues, so I was in the hospital a lot. So I was either at the beach or at school or in the hospital getting operations and things. So that's the only thing that was a little not as normal. Wow, you guys had the connect at Disneyland.

We were right across the street. It was great. And with him working there, you probably got the discounts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who were you closer to your mother or your father? Boy, I was close to both, but different. You know, my dad would work a lot, but when I was in the hospital, he would be like the first face I'd see every morning, like,

are you okay? How do you feel? You know, so he had a lot of emotion, I think, about it, of had his little girl in the hospital all the time. But my mom was someone was the stoic, handled things, made sure I was healthy and doing what I should be doing. So I think I was a little bit of both. How are you guys financially, and especially with the hospital stays? Did that cause, like, a strain on the family? I heard that it did a little bit when I was young.

You know, they could only have one car in order to get certain insurance, you know, to pay. But like I said, my dad got his cabinet shop. He started from nothing. You know, he quit school when he was young. And but he worked really hard day and night. And he grew that business all the way to doing Obi-B Bryant's house. Oh, really? Yeah, he did his kitchen.

Isn't that cool? Wow. Yeah, from a young kid from Eco Rivera. Yeah, and he learned how to do cabinets. Do you feel like you were a little entrepreneurial at all? I'm very, yeah, I'm very entrepreneurial. It's interesting because he wasn't really like he didn't start off doing that. He worked for someone else and then transitioned like midlife.

Right. Which is, and it's hard to do to do that as you get older. It's hard to do. Yeah. And there were times that he would call me because he had to learn computers himself. And he'd be like, Chris, look, you know, I can make this wardrobe. Look at these shoes I could do on the computer. And he was so excited.

about it. Yeah, it was cool. That's awesome. And then did you go to public schools, your whole like middle school, high school? Yep. I went to Laguna Hills, into high school, and then I went to college just a little bit. I was got really great grades. I had strict parents, so I pretty much got the good grades because I had to, you know, so, but school was okay, but it was easy for me. you say was like your aspiration, you know, in high school, high school, Christy, what were you thinking your future was going to look like? High school, Christy would love to be at the beach every day and go skiing at night. Also, I was really into fashion.

So I worked in retail a lot. I ended up working at Nordstrom selling shoes, which eventually got me to do my own business as a wardrobe stylist. So I had my own Christy Kaye wardrobe stylist business. And I did that for a long time. I'm probably to prison. Oh, so that was the last job you had before going to prison? Yeah. So what goes wrong then? Like it's, you have the good family. Everything's good,

like that kind of like that perfect family. And you go off to college and then it all goes to shit. It all just one day. Yeah. Well, that's how it does. It's normally one decision, you know? Yeah. Well, there was, yeah, there was a couple decisions. My husband, I was married to a police officer. Plot twist. Yeah, plot twist. And he ended up having an affair with someone that he had pulled over from what I understand. Wait, what? Do you know the details about this? I do a little bit. Can you share it? Give us like what exactly happened?

Yeah, I heard. I heard that, well, so, okay, so I was getting, it was on New Year's Eve, I was getting my eyebrows waxed, right? And so the phone kept ringing, and I'm like, I don't know, you know, why is my phone ringing? And so I picked up the phone and this voice, this woman's voice said, you know, is this Christy? And she sounded drunk. I said, yeah, this is Christy. And she said, well, my name's Christy too. And I'm in love with your husband. I was like, what?

Like, that shocked me because I was not expecting that at all. And she said, you know, we've been seeing each other for a few months. And, you know, we want to be together. And I was like, what? Like, we were going out that night. I had no idea. And at the time, my dad was sick with. cancer. And also at the time, my husband and I were adopting. So we were in the process of adopting.

So all of a sudden, from that phone call and with my dad being sick, everything just kind of flipped. And so I called, so my husband called me later. And he's like, hey, I'm a blockbuster. You know, I want to get, you remember a blockbuster? Yeah, of course. That was the best spot on Friday night. He's like, hey, I'm going to get a movie, you know. And I said, wait, wait, I have a question. And he's like, what? I said, who's Christy? And then there was, you know, of course, it was like no talk. It's just quiet.

And so I said, okay, if you were me, what would you do right now? Because I didn't know. This was, I thought I was more the wild one. And he said, I would go home and wait for me. And so I said, okay, I can do that. And it is so crazy how you could lay back down and finish your other eyebrow. Like, dude, like your whole, like, world is, you know, going to explode. So then I went home and, you know, the phone rang to his phone.

And I'm like, I know you're not going to pick up the phone. But he did, and it was her, and so I left. How many years into the marriage was this? Ten years. Ten years. Fourteen together. You know, it's such an interesting perspective as people look up to police officers and this is a great moment to show that they are humans and making mistakes too.

Yeah. And he was a police officer that was always like, if someone was in trouble, he would call me like, hey, Chris, you know, is there any way we can get this guy like to an AA meeting or, you know, he was really thoughtful? But he was also someone that would say, oh, I'd pull that girl over or, you know, started to get judgmental after, you know, he had been doing it for 10 years and saw a lot of stuff that was horrific and hard. But, but yeah, so I'm like, and then you're with someone like her. Yeah, I think he pulled her over in front of the strip club in Orange County. The strip club was called Captain Creams. Oh, man. Can you believe it?

Have you talked to him since you went to prison? I have. What did he say about all that? Bad decision. You know, I don't love her. And, you know, and he wasn't with her after. But, you know, I was already, you know, if you're going to do that, it's not, that's not okay with me in any capacity. Wow.

So interesting. were married to a cop and then you yourself become incarcerated later on and he cheats on you. Right. And we were in the middle of adopting, which was really important because I couldn't have kids. But at the same time, like I said, my dad was dying of cancer and then I ended up in the hospital for a kidney issue. And also a little bit after that, I was seeing somebody who had relapsed on methamphetamine. And he called me when I was in the hospital, not knowing I was there, said, Chris, I need your help. I'm in Palm Springs. You know, I can't get out. I need you to come help me. And so I said, you know, that I would. And I went to pick them up. After I got out of the

hospital, they gave me, oh, here's the deal. So when I was in the hospital, the nurse, she said, I'll get you a pain shot. And I knew I didn't need one. And I had had a history of overusing medication because, you know, I'd had like 40 operations, and I was used to dealing with emotions by demoral, you know, or pain shots, you know. And so, you know, my family would be upset and it would be a lot of emotions being in there. But I'd always say in the back of my mind, well, at least I'll get a pain shot. Because that is going to make things all right. And so I became addicted to that.

And then I went to a rehab and learned about all of it. I didn't even really know about all of it because I had only done that. my entire life. And so I stopped, and I, meaning that, you know, I didn't take pills or if I had to have some for an operation, I gave it to someone and took them as prescribed, things like that. So when I went back in after, you know, with my husband, a fall through adoption and my dad, the lady's like, I'll get you a shot. And I was not in pain. And but I was like, I deserve it. I want just a little relief is all I wanted. And so that, led me on, you know, wanting more immediately.

And as soon as I took it, you know, when she came back and even, like, put the needle in my vein, I was like, wow, I'm in trouble. I knew it because I love that feeling. It was the only feeling that, like, gave me peace without having to deal with emotions or boundaries or, you know, pain. And so when I got that call from him, and they sent me home with a bunch of Icanan that I said okay and I took instead of in the past and picked him up and, you know, I mean, I can go on with story.

Do you think that if you weren't in the hospital that time, you never would have gotten back on to? Yeah, it's a good possibility. So you go and meet up with him. What happens next? I meet up with him. I pick him up. I take him to a hotel. And in my minds, which sounds crazy now, but it made so much.

sense at the time, I knew that this addiction of opioid would not be good. And I knew that I would be hard to stop, especially with no accountability. And so I took him to the hotel in Palm Springs, and I went back to the place I picked him up. And I said, if I try some of this, because I'm not going to get addicted to meth. I mean, I'm a wardrobe stylist. I mean, I don't do that, you know. if I take some of this, then that will stop the addiction process of the opioid. And then I'll stop this and then it'll be done. And so I did. And that's not what happened.

And so I liked the way that made me feel. It did stop the opioid. I didn't like try to get more pills or, you know, any more of the pain medication. But I liked the way that made me feel. And I wasn't dealing with emotions. I wasn't dealing with any of like the big stuff that that that was happening. And it and then I kept going, but I didn't tell him about it until one day. And he was so angry.

I was just saying this just a minute ago. Like he was so like snot crying. Like he was so mad. Like Chris, this is the devil. Like what are you doing? Like he was like pacing. And I think, I'm like, dude, you are being a little overdramatic. but I didn't know the whole, you know, the whole thing of addiction with meth.

And so after being angry and letting it settle in, I'm like, dude, you're being dramatic here. Then he got more and I got more. And then someone said, hey, you know, if you get a little extra, you can, it'll be free. And then you could sell it to this guy here. And they're like, okay. And that's what we did. And then it kept up. You started selling meth?

I started selling math. Wow. Right. So why do you think you broke like your rule about, like you knew that math was something you didn't want to touch? My name is McKenzie and I started to go fund me for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses. paying some back bills.

So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed. We had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with. GoFundMe is the world's number one. fund-raising platform trusted by over 200 million people.

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big results. Now on Roe. Go to row.com slash listen to see if you qualify. RX only go to row. Go to row.com slash safety for serious side effects and boxed warning associated with GLP-1s. I think you went back on that. I think it was because I was disconnected from myself. And that's part of the reason that I started to write to figure out why. You know, when you grow up with not dealing with emotions, not having boundaries, I just like gave power away. I just, like, gave power away. I never was someone that said, here's exactly what I want or this, I don't like this, or this doesn't feel right, or holding onto my power, I guess is the best way to say it. I was disconnected.

And so that's why I think when I see others that are due crimes and, you know, are addicted, you know, they're like, I'm not, I don't even love myself right now. I feel guilty. I feel ashamed. I'm kind of disgusted with it, but I don't want to stop because if I do, then I got to deal with all those emotions. I'm not going to be with this person. There's so many things that I wasn't willing to do it at the moment. And then you, it's weird, but as a salesperson and entrepreneur, you quickly go into, well, this is it.

So I can get a little extra. You start doing math in your head. You know, it's odd, but that's exactly. exactly what happened. And were you making any, like, decent money for it? You were making legit money. How much should I? And we remodeled a whole house. So you were pushing some weight. Yeah. Wow. Just you and this guy or was there more people involved? No, just us. Okay. And was he about the same age or was he older? He was younger than me. He was a college graduate from Drake, international marketing. So we weren't people that, you know, no one's suspected. Like we would be at the

usher concert or go to CES. We would do that and do life at the same time. It was kind of weird looking back. Did you ever take the second to like understand where he came from his past and what brought him there? Or is that something you guys never talked about? We did a little bit. And I think his thing was, well, my opinion that there was probably stuff that happened in his past that he never talked about. What about your parents?

Were they still active in your life at the time? My dad had died and my mom lived in Oregon. So they weren't around me. Do you think if they were around? Yes. It would have helped. For sure. Yes.

If my dad had not died, I'm sure that I wouldn't have gone down that road. I'm not blaming him. I'm just saying the accountability and all the emotions that were going on. Yeah, I was, I felt like I was alone. And I wasn't really. I mean, in proximity, yes. But also, like, I, you know, I was married to a police officer who I thought would never do that. A narcotic officer at that for a period.

Yeah. So I think my wild side just said, screw it. Here's where I am. And, you know, there were aspects to it that were renting huge homes. Palm Springs and being at the beat. I mean, there was, it was, it was not responsibility for sure. Did officers know who you were because you were married to like a narcotics guy? And did that help you, benefit you at all?

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Not that, so no one knew what I was doing. But like if I got pulled over, they would, you know, in my last name, they would let me go. And that's the same last name you have to this day. You decided to keep it even after everything? Yeah, I wasn't sure if I should. or not.

Yeah. Isn't it, it's kind of hard to, like, remove the last name and everything, or is it? Yeah. You know, I don't know. I felt like that's, I don't know. That's just kind of who I was for, you know, for many years. I got married when I was 27, 59 now. Yeah, that's so many years to have that last name.

Yeah. Yeah. And when you think about it, that was a shorter period of time than all the life you've had since then. Right. And also, like, my maiden name, which is alms, felt like really pure and I didn't want to ruin the family name, kind of. You know, it's like I felt that was, that was like pure Christy. That's fair. Yeah.

We'll give you that one. Yeah. Okay. So what happens next? How long are you with this guy and doing these types of dealings with him? So we're doing this for a while, for a little while. And each time someone would say, oh, you. You can, oh, I have this guy in New York.

You know, you can mail stuff to him. That's what we did. They would mail money back to us. And then someone, this guy in Connecticut. And so this guy, I didn't know he was a priest. And so we would, we just did this thing back and forth for a while, for a little while. You know, like most, I think people that are selling meth and that come on the show, they're not, you know, smart enough to sell stuff. over like in the mail or anything they're selling locally.

They're strung out. Yeah, we didn't do that. How did you guys like come up with like this system? How do you even meet someone that says, hey, sell this? Because this is before what, there's any phones or social media. We had phones. This was two. I was arrested 2013.

Okay. So all this started, well, probably let's just say after 2008. 2008. So there was smartphones, but not necessarily like social media. No, thank God. Wow. Yeah. And so how did you guys like get contacts?

Well, the first person was in Palm Springs and that's where he got it. That's where I met, you know, the people. And then it started kind of small. And then it was like, hey, I have a guy, you know, who comes to Palm Springs a lot. And he lives in Chicago. I have a guy who comes to Palm Springs. He lives in New York. And there were more.

quantities. And you were just... Instead of just around the neighborhood. It wasn't like that, really. I mean, there was a couple, but not really. So how much are you sending in a package? I don't know. Maybe let me think.

I know we were getting back money-wise, like $10,000, $20,000. Cash. So they would mail it back. So you would front it to these individuals. Like you would send it before you even got the money. We did kind of half and half. Okay. And that's where it got kind of crazy

because at one point we got an envelope back and there was no money in it, but there was like the obituary from somebody, like obituaries weren't there, which was crazy. And so when we called this person, they had a picture of them putting it in the mail. And so me, that, you know, entrepreneur, the money person, you know, salesperson, I'm like, okay, so we'll split that with you. And so I did a spreadsheet and a Google doc.

You had a spreadsheet. Oh, man. So were you physically the one that did the packaging or was that your accomplice? We both did. You guys both. So you were hands in, down and dirty packaging this up. And what are you in like your 40s at this time? Yeah.

And you're not like a strung out. meth addict like you're not missing like teeth or missing like it no but i was using okay how much do you think you were using a day like were you high all the time doing yeah i was okay so you're pretty bad and in bad shape to that level like clarity was yeah because each time like he was more of a binger but each time there was clarity i'd be like what the hell am i doing like like like there was a time And one of the guys that sold to us that's from another country would come to San Diego area, Palm Springs. And he was running late. And I said, listen, you can't be late because we need to, you know, mail this by a certain time.

And so I know. So then he says, Christy, come over here. And then so I came over and he's like, listen, he goes, do you know how many times? You know how many people get killed when there is this much money? in this much quantity in the house at the same time. He goes, you will never know exactly what time I'm going to be here. You don't want anyone to know exactly time when both of this is going to be in the house at the same time.

And when he said that, that's kind of the first time that it kind of shook me out of like, what the hell? I am not selling shoes at Nordstrom's. We are not talking about like wardrobe here. So I remember having just a horrible stomach ache and thinking, you know, I was detached. So now it's like, you know, faced with like, what am I doing? Like my parents tried so hard to keep me alive as a child. And now here I am just like being ridiculous, you know.

So yeah. So then if you use again, you're like, okay, we're not going to think about that right now. Did you have like an end game in mind of when you wanted to get out of the business, like a dollar amount or a goal? Probably every week, one of us. and it was every other week, they would say, Chris, it's not if, it's when. We got to stop. And so, yeah, okay, this next one. And then the next week, I would say, chat. I mean, we got to stop. And it just kept going. And so what happened was, I think, when we did get that envelope,

So Chad was actually he contacted an attorney from Miami who, what did he do? Oh, I think the feds left us. Let's see. Someone left something on the counter. And I don't know. This may have been another time that the money was taken or there was something. So he got a Miami attorney to write a letter and they had to give this money back by a certain, or have to do something by a certain date.

And if he didn't, then they would get the money back. And they didn't. So we got the money back. You would think that would be the wise time to be like, this is, okay, we're out. But it wasn't. And did you guys have like a way to launder the money or was it just that part didn't really matter? It didn't matter. So that you were just getting the cash spending it lavishly and that was your life.

Yeah. Wow. This is pretty interesting that you were like this, you know, did you end up adopting? the kid or not? So you were single at this time except for with this man, no kid. No kid. Do you think if you ended up adopting the kid, you wouldn't have gone down this path? The kid would have kind of prevented you from that. Yeah, I wouldn't have even, yeah, that wouldn't have even been a thing for sure. When you tell the story to other like moms or people in your friend circle, what do they think about this? I don't really tell that story a lot to people.

I wrote little bits in my book, but I don't really go into this detail. Because even talking about it, it's, you know, it's embarrassing. It's, it is, it just is sickening kind of, you know, because I had opportunities. And I was in prison. I met so many people that didn't have opportunity, you know, but I had all that. I was just someone who was completely disconnected from myself, did not deal with my emotions or anything that was going on with the wild side, with an adventure side, with the entrepreneurial side that used right now that's really working well for me. So it's like, you know, you have this coin. So when you flip it on the underside, you know, it can get deep, quick, fast, deep.

but then the same thing you flip on the other side, it can go high and great and, you know, into amazing things. And that's where I am now on it. So at first I used to hate that part of me, but now I love that part of me because it's used for good as someone who's really connected to themselves, loves themselves, and understands what happened. Now, the people you're picking up from in California, there was no danger involved in that? Oh, there was so much danger. they came from another country just to deliver to you and is this like cartel type individuals

and how do they feel delivering to a woman or was it always your partner that went? It was both do you think that protected you that you had another man with you or were they fine they didn't care as long as they were getting paid? I don't think they cared

it didn't feel at the time it didn't feel like it was cartel. I guess they never really do it. No. But the one thing that they did did that was wise that I didn't really realize is the times are like, hey, we're in, we're in Laguna, or hey, we're in San Clemente. We're just going to come over. So then they knew where we lived. And that was, that was probably that, that was not smart. And you always paid up front or did you get

it on credit? You know, I can't remember. I don't, I don't ever think it was on credit. I doubt it. I don't I feel like that makes it even more dangerous. Yeah. If it's on credit. No, I don't think. I don't think it was on credit. How much do you think you made in total from all of this if you had to put a number on it? Oh, boy.

I don't know. Hundreds of thousands. Wow. You know, I gave me credit for being high and being able to pull this off. I mean, it's a lot. It's not like you're dealing on the street. This is pretty intricate. It was intricate.

And again, like, that's the thing about those who commit crimes is that when use those transferable skills, when used for good, is great, you know. So, yeah, we were smart. I mean, yeah, it was smart. And the reason that we even got caught was because someone that the priest was selling to. So the priest was using and selling. And how do you meet this priest? Who is this priest? This priest is somebody who, someone that we sold to in New York, said, I have a guy in Connecticut.

It's the guy. So we sold to the guy in Connecticut. And so he was, he had a boyfriend who was raided at another, I think in New York. And he told on the priest. So the priest sells to a guy who's in a relationship with a boy? No. The priest sells to the guy he's in a relationship with. Okay.

And then the priest's boyfriend. Yeah, the priest's boyfriend. Oh, okay. So this is a gay priest that they want meth in New York, and then they reach out to you guys, and then you... Something like that. Yeah, you send them the meth. Was it a lot that transaction? Yeah.

And have you dealt with the priest before? Mm-mm. So this is your first time? Well, when we got caught, that was not the first time, no. Like the first time we met him was, hey, you can sell to this guy. But then it had been months doing that. So what was the transaction then? It was just one transaction that got you jammed up?

No. It was the boyfriend telling on the priest. So there was undercover in, I think the priest lived in Waterbury. Okay. Bridgeport area, that area. And so an undercover marshal, I guess, federal agent was dealing with him. We've got to find this priest. He would be great for the show.

I don't know. Yeah. His name's Kevin Whalen. He went to prison, too. There's got to be an article about it if he was in Connecticut, right? A billion articles. It was so embarrassing. Yeah.

And they called him Monsignor Meth. It was like all over all the paper. Was he like selling in the church? No. Okay. He was someone that was in, he was an addict also. He did say one time, he said, Chris, if anything ever happens, just so you know, like, you know, I made my bed and I'm going to lay in it. And I thought that was a odd thing.

But that's true. He didn't. No one told on it anybody or anything. It's just the guy. And so when I guess they, they, they found out through discovery that they found us, through wiretap. They were wiretapping him and then you guys got caught on the phone. They were wiretapping his phone.

So if you had never done interactions with him, you would, I guess you never know what would have happened. Yeah. I mean, I could be dead. I could, yeah, I could be dead. Yeah. So how long, did you know of his arrest before they got to you? No, they got us all on the same moment.

Okay. And this became federal. Yes. Okay. So there was something which I heard that's called T&T. Have you ever heard of that? No. They said on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

It's not funny, but it's so Tuesdays. You're laughing first. Well, it's just, it's wild, really. So on Tuesdays and Thursdays is when they do their rates, I guess. So they got us all at the same time. I was in Las Vegas going to a consumer electronics show, but also thinking that there was something going on. So we left Orange County, went to Las Vegas.

So they got us, the priest, another guy who the priest sold to, I guess, and my ex-husband all at the same time. Wait, why did they arrest the ex-husband? They didn't arrest him. They stopped to talk to him. And he was still active in law enforcement? Yes. But he said there's no way Chris is involved in any of this. You were literally living like a double life.

Yeah. So at that point when you got arrested, did you stop selling or do you still continuing operations? When we got arrested, I never went home. They arrested us. They did not let us leave. And then I, you know, got five years in federal prison. So I never went home. No, but up until that point before you got arrested? Before. Were you selling still? Or did you take a break? Was there like a down period? No. So you're still moving weight and now you're in Vegas when you went to that convention? Well, at the time that everyone got, at the time that the feds came, that was the first, the only the last time. Okay.

So there was no. There was no arrest. There was just that day, which was January 10, 2013. That's the day. Everything stopped. That's the day that, you know, the feds came. Well, like January 9th, were you still selling like the day before? January 9th, we were, no, we were in Las Vegas.

but we had left San Clemente thinking that the feds could be after us. So you knew there was some type of hearing or you had a feeling. You always kind of know. Like you never just get caught unexpectedly. You always have like some type of feeling. Right. So did they like raid the hotel you were saying it? Well, I was in bed and I was thinking, boy, these maids are making so much noise, so early in the morning.

And then boom. Yeah, and they came through the door and screaming, where's the guns? And, you know, I have no guns. We never used a gun. Yeah. What did they call you guys when they arrested you? Was there like a headline for you guys? The headline said something like typical Orange County couple goes to concerts and sells meth out of their home or something like that.

Did you feel like that was an accurate description of you? Yeah. When your friends and family found out about this, what was their reaction? Well, I went right to the federal holding cell in Las Vegas. I'm Serena Williams, and I'm healthier on Roe. I've lost 34 pounds in a year with GL1's diet and exercise. On Roe, you can access GLP1 options, including the first FDA-approved GLP1 pill for weight loss. Go to row.com slash journey to see if you qualify.

14 to 20% average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 2.2% to 3.1% in placebo arm. RX only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to row.co slash safety. I didn't have a lot of contact with anybody except my family. It was horrific when all your every single terrible thing that you've been trying to hide. And, you know, it's exhausting lying, you know, hiding. guilt, shame, all that, and then it's all just exposed. And you're facing 10 years in prison. I have a beautiful family who loves me deeply, but I really was shocked that they still love me. Now, when they said, or when you were arrested, did they tell you off the bat you were faced with 10 years in prison? No, they just, you know, they were screaming a lot. They were screaming.

No, they didn't say that until later. And when was the first time you consulted with an attorney? Was it back when you were in Connecticut for core proceedings? Well, in Las Vegas, we went to the first hearing, but I think my body, like, shut down because I don't really remember the majority of it. I ended up in the hospital for about a week. I was, I think I started hallucinating. I was not myself.

Like they thought maybe I was like pretending I was crazy to get out of it. But I literally like, I think I had never experienced that before, but I think my body just was, it was too much. I guess if you have a nervous breakdown, I don't know if that's what it is. But I went in for a week and I got back out. And I was told that I would be saying, yes, you're on or no, you're on. Or in the courtroom when it wasn't even my turn. And they were going to let us out. on our own recognizance, but I guess the magistrate in Connecticut at the last minute said, no, bring him here.

So we never went home. Yeah, it is a little strange that they brought you all the way, I guess, to Connecticut. I feel like they could have just had a case or something out there for you guys. If they did, the leniency in Las Vegas would have been much better for us in regard to being inside. Like they were just, you know, it was not a big deal, but to Connecticut it was a big deal. What were your actual charges? Conspiracy to distribute. And it was just one single charge?

Yeah, I think it was like, yeah, I don't remember them out. So they didn't hit you with anything of like the mail or anything like that? It was just one charge and that was in? I don't remember. Okay. Were postal inspectors on your case at all? Or was it just DEA FBI? D.A.

I think it was just the DEA FBI. Okay. So then they extradite you to Connecticut. Yeah. What was that process of getting to Connecticut in the first place? It was brutal. So I remember the girl said, hey, you're going to go on con air. I was like, there is not a con air.

Like, that's ridiculous. But there is a con air, you know. So you're, yeah, it was so bizarre. So, and at this time, it was like the biggest blizzard. There had been in years in Connecticut. So, you know, the marshes were wearing face masks and, like, you only, like, saw their eyes. They were, you know, covered up. And I'm in this little brown, like this camouflage T-shirt in these brown pants.

And they wouldn't give me a coat, anything. It was freezing. But so I get in the plane and they don't tell you where you're going to go. I had an idea would be in this area, you know, but you're on con air shackled, you know, your ankles. and waist and everything. And all the men are in the back and you're in the front. And so then they let everyone off a little bit at a time.

They let all the men out first and then the few women that were there. And then, you know, I'm outside freezing to death. And they asked if they could give me a jacket, you know, one of the guys. And so they said no. And so everyone got into the vans. And I still didn't know where, you know,

I had no idea I was a newer. Oh, wait, at this time, no, This time it was Connecticut. Or no, I'm sorry. Oklahoma was the first place that I went to. Where you guys stopped, yeah. Where we stopped. But the federal holding cell for women was overcrowded.

So I had to go to the Grady County, which was Oklahoma County Jail. Oh, so they took you off the tarmac and then brought you to the county jail. Yeah. Oh, that was even worse than Oklahoma's bad. It was terrible, yeah. Wow. It was like I thought I was going to die. I thought I would die in that prison.

On the plane, you're with men too. Yes. When I was on Conner, they had the woman in the front and they would load them on after. Right. And you couldn't talk to them or interact with them. Right. And the Marshall would sit in front of you, facing you. But the interesting thing was, and I can't remember the first time to Oklahoma,

Chad wasn't there, but the second time from Oklahoma to Connecticut, he was sitting right behind me. But we couldn't, you know, talk or anything. So I just kind of tilted a little bit to the right, probably just crying the whole time. Like, yeah, what's going on? What's happening? Yeah. Oh, I was just going to say there was a public defender in Connecticut that was assigned to me. And I don't remember when he said, but he was the one that said to, you know, that I'm facing 10 or 20 years or something.

Wow. What a whole different environment for you. So in the county, what was that like in Oklahoma? It was horrible. It was, there was only me and one other girl, and we were in this holding cell, but then we were rolling up our pants because there was like water, liquid floating in the ground. And then they sent, so they took us out of that and put us in another holding cell that had other women in there. But it was tight. It was smaller than this office.

And there was a phone. Some women were screaming to their moms like, get me out of here. There was another lady that was pregnant. Like she looked like she was going to be due any minute. There was another lady laying on the floor. on a mattress passed out. And so the lady that was pregnant goes, are you the feds?

And, you know, you don't know. Is that a good thing? You know, what to say. And she said, come sit on my mattress. And so I was like, I don't want to sit on your mattress. But the way she said it the second time was like, I'm going to kill you if you don't come sit on her mattress. So we went to sit on it.

Then she got up and used that time that she had to get up to, like, start fighting the girl on the floor. So she was like punching her like, Like, I don't see fights. I'm not a fighter. She was punching your blood was flying everywhere. Then there were everyone screaming. It was, it was, I thought, yeah, this is not going to be well.

And so they got us, me and the other girlfriend, the feds out. And, yeah, it was, it was horrible. What a mess. It was a mess. You make it back to, you landed Newark, and then they bring you to Connecticut for your first court appearance. Yeah. Where were you held in Connecticut? Wyatt.

At Wyatt. Well, first, what? first I had, I was supposed to go to White, but they forgot about me. So they sent me to Danbury to the shoe. So that was my first. So you were in Danbury. I was in the shoot one night. Yeah. So that was my first time I was watching women like already sentenced going away for 19 years, 27 years, 23 years. You know, and as they walked away, I'm like, dang, these women are going They're years. Like these are years.

And these are young women. You know, when you're with them, they seem like not the kind of women you would think we get all that time. Yeah, did you interact with the women and kind of like when I was pending, you know, sentencing, I would interact with people who are already sentenced and you kind of get a, you know, you try your best to get a understanding of what's to come. And every situation is different. So you can never compare.

But when you're sitting in limbo, your like mind's going wild. Absolutely. Absolutely, yes, absolutely. Yeah, and it's just mind-blowing when you think of the years, like, and they would talk about years like candy, like 19, 18, 12, 27. I'm like, wait, years? Like, years? That's insane. Yeah.

So then they bring you to Hartford for your first court appearance. Yeah. I got, I went from Danbury to Wyatt and found my new home for the next almost two years. I was at Wyatt. Oh, you're pending. Pending. That's such a terrible place to do time. Yeah.

And they had a two-point reduction possibility coming. Like the law was going to pass. Oh, I waited. So I was told to wait for that. But yeah, there's no outside. You're in that one room. Why couldn't you get bond when you're out here in Connecticut? At one point, they let me go to the Salvation Army at Hartford.

Wait, just walk out of the prison to go to the Salvation Army? Yeah. For a day? No. So they said my attorney did something. I don't know. Oh, I guess it after I've played guilty? I don't think it was after I played guilty.

It was in April. I was arrested in January. And then they said I can go to the Salvation Army for a few months or something. So I went to the Salvation Army. Did they say you were like a flight risk or something or a risk to the community, which is why they didn't give you bail the first time when you got here? He said his exact words were, I'm not going to let a high purveyor of plutonium out in my state.

A high purveyor of plutonium? Do you remember who your judge was? I don't remember the magistrate judge. My other judge was Covella. And that was in Connecticut too? Hartford, yeah. Interesting. So why did it take so long to go through the legal process,

where there are people on the case two that wanted to go to trial or anything? No, it was just because I know my attorney thought that that new law was going to pass for the two-point reduction. Okay. So we're kind of waiting for that. And was there a mandatory minimum in your case? Yes. Which was the five years?

Ten years. Oh, ten was the mandatory minimum. Yeah. Okay. So the law would eventually get passed then. Mm-hmm. Okay. So that saved you some time.

Right. And the other people on your case, they didn't offer you a deal at all because it seemed like they weren't even after you to begin with. They did offer me a deal if I would tell on Chad. Which was the boyfriend? Yeah. Okay. And you didn't want to do that.

No, you know, it was the first time that I think I made my own decision because if I were to tell on him, he would have got like 20 years. He'd never been in trouble before. It was the same kind of situation as I am. And I thought, you know, I didn't just stumble into this, you know, crime ring. And so I didn't feel right to be like, let me, let me, you know, disclose all this information. and you're going to get 20 years and I'm going to get two years or something. It just, I didn't feel right. And there was a woman who was in the prison with me.

And I don't even know her name, but she, you know, I said, it was hard because you're thinking, I'm not going to tell. And, but, you know, my attorney is like, Christy, everybody tells. They tell on their mother. They tell on their father. They tell on their brother. Everybody tells, like, there's not a case where no one tells. So they're going to tell on you and then you're going to get the 20 years.

I'm like, they're not going to, like, this is not who we are. And he goes, he was mad. He's like, damn it, this is who, you're a drug dealer. This is who you are. This is here everybody is. And the girl said, Christy, when you lay your head down tonight, whatever decision you come up with, you have to be at peace with that. And that's the decision you have to make. When she said that, I'm like, yeah, I mean, I can't tell.

Do you stand by that decision today? Yeah. Yeah. And no one else told. because, you know, we were all people who were addicted, who got caught up and didn't, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't that kind of, I don't know if that's a relationship or that kind of situation. So no one told. Did you and Chad get the same amount of time? Five years. Five years each.

And the priest did too. The priest got five years too. Even though he had a lot more counts than we did. But what I was told was the courtroom was filled with his parishioners who begged on his behalf. And he also got five years. But then the only two people that had been back to prison was Chad, who I was with and the priest since. Because they couldn't stay sober. Did you have any family come to Connecticut to support you?

I did. And that was so painful. My sister said, I'm going to come. I'm like, I don't want you here. You know, I don't want to taint you. Like, it was, like, it was bad. She said, I don't care. I'm coming.

And I still remember trying to get ready for her to see her visit, you know. And at that time, I had no visitors for a while. And, you know, I put, you learn to put ink on a toothbrush to use the mascara to make your eyes look. You know, you're trying to be normal. And you look like crap and you're in this terrible situation. And that was a bad mistake. I use, like, the Jolly Ranchers to, like, get my lips a little. Did you guys ever do any of that?

No, we used Jolly Ranchers to, like, make Hooch or Laffy Taffy. Oh, yeah. What about hair, like, hair gel? Did you use that for hair gel? No, they might have even have sold some type of hair gel. I don't know. Or guys just weren't. A lot of guys like their hair short, you know, in prison.

And they're not really, like, spiking. it or anything or dying it, you know? Yeah, we try to dye it with coffee and all that, yeah. But so the pen as mascara was the worst mistake because when you cry, it's just like, you're just black falling down your faith. So when I was leaving the pod, the girls were like, it's okay, Christy. You know, your sister wants to make sure you're okay. Because I was shaking because my two worlds were starting to, we're going to collide.

You know, my Christy alms, like good world. and then this horrible, bad decision, this person that I become kind of world. But when we saw each other, you know, I remember, you know, you have to punch in your number and get on the phone. And then it was beautiful in the fact that that's the first time that I felt loved and seen and like I was a human. But again, when you're disconnected, it's easier to go through this kind of stuff when you're, are not connected because you don't have all those emotions. So then when she was leaving, I was like, don't leave me. Like, yeah, man, it was, you know, we decided who was going to leave first?

We were both crying. It was, and still makes me cry because that was like the most painful day ever. How did you feel once you were finally sentenced internally? I was sentenced on my birthday. So I thought he may let me out because every time I drove, every time. every time from Wyatt to Hartford, we would pass the Providence Mall and I would see P.F. Chang's.

I was like, I really want some like orange honey chicken. You know, Wyatt's food's terrible. Yeah. I mean, that's a whole thing. And I thought, my family's there, you know, which is the worst thing when you have his sentencing and it's my birthday. Maybe he's going to, I had already been in like two and a half years.

And I thought maybe he will let me out. but he didn't. So that was, I got five years, painful. So how much more time would you have to do after that? If you do two and a half, what is it like another year and a half with the good time? Yeah, however, the judge when he sentenced me, he said, Christy, you're going to go to a camp in California. Like, he knew I was like, what the heck, my family, my sister stood up, you know,

saying everything against what the prosecutor said, you know. And so the judge said, you're going to be to camp in California. it's not that bad. You know, your family can come see you. You'll do ARDAP. You'll get a year off and laid it out. You'll be like three and a half years. So when I left, then I went to Oklahoma.

And the plane that went to California didn't take me on that plane. And they told me that they were sending me to Carswell, Texas. And, you know, when you're in Wyatt and you're preparing, you're looking at the different prisons. You're reading prison books. like, because it's scary. And so I was learning about California and Dublin and, but then so to say Carswell. And my mom looked at it on that. She goes, that says the hospital of horrors is what it said.

And so they said that based on, you know, the operations I had as a kid. And even though I didn't need the medical attention, you know, I'm sure they get lots more money to have someone there. So they had me in the maximum security in Texas. How was your medical condition at that time? It was good. It was fine. I mean, it was fine. So you didn't technically need to go there?

I didn't. The only time when I was in Carswell, I had a kidney issue, but I think it was really this, my kidney started to fail, which had never happened. But I think it was a stress of me trying to get out to go to another prison because the women were telling me that the ADAP program that they have there, no one graduates. or like, Christy, you're not going to be able to do it. I'm like, well, I really don't have a choice to go anywhere else to do it. So I was trying to get out to go, and that was a nightmare trying to get out. So I did our debt, but I got kicked out. Why did you get kicked out?

They said I was inauthentic. There was 32 of us. There was two of us left. And, you know, it's hard to do inner work when you're in survival mode. I don't know why people think that you can do work on yourself, but I tried. You know, most people quit or got kicked out, and I'm like, I'm not quitting. And so right a little bit before I was going to go home, they called me in the office. They said that there was no clinical progress.

They said that I was inauthentic. And I'm like, if I was authentic, I wouldn't be here. Like, I don't even know what that meant. I had not really heard that word so much before. And she also said, knowing that I couldn't have kids. And I don't know if you're familiar with our debt and what they, in the process in there. The men call it like a snitching type.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that like that in the woman? Yeah. So she said to me, she said, thank, well, she kicked me out, and then she called me back in her office, and I thought, you know, maybe she's changed her mind

because this is ridiculous, you know? And because I didn't do anything. I didn't have drugs or have sex, nothing. So I was upset to say the least that I'd have to do another year. And so she said, thank God you couldn't have children last show where she said you would have been a terrible mother. That's what she said to you.

Wow. She said, I bet you're a terrible daughter and a terrible sister. Now get out of my office. So what did you do to provoke her? Were you like causing trouble there at all? You must have been on someone's radar. You pissed someone off in there. Well, you know, there was 32 people and there was two of us left, you know?

So the one thing, I mean, I was devastated when she said that. So that's kind of how the whole writing thing started because I'm like, I must be, like, there must be something wrong with me because who I think I am and where I am and what they're saying I am is not matching in any capacity. And so later I worked in landscaping and then that day, I was, I mean, I was devastated that I have to do another year. And then she said all that to me. I mean, what woman would ever say that to another woman? And I said that to my boss. I'm like, can you believe they kicked me out? Like, I was so upset.

I thought it would be better if I wasn't on the planet. At that moment, that's the time that I was thinking. It's probably better if I'm not here. I just off myself because something must be really wrong with me. And he said, lash over. He said, I don't think they met anyone like you in here before. And when he said that for some reason, something resonated with me. And he said, you know, just work.

run around the track because I used to run around the track a lot do the work you need to and get the hell out. But he said it in such a kind of loving way and he was really good looking so he never spoke. Nobody ever, like he never talked. Those were the most words he had ever said to me in one sentence in the year that I had been there. And so I believed him.

That's the only hope that I had and I believed him and I just worked from there. I wonder how these judges, you know, feel learning about stories. like this because I feel like when they sentence someone, they do have good intentions of where, because they want them to be with their family. Like the judge in my case wanted me to be close to home and then I end up in Wisconsin because judges can say, I suggest you to go somewhere. And the BOP does the opposite with that.

So I wonder if that would ever, like in hindsight, if that would alter the judge's opinion. Like I wonder if he's listening to this and he looks back, well, maybe I should have just let her out then and there if I knew X, Y, and Z was going to happen. and she couldn't be close to family and she couldn't do this and she couldn't do that and she gets kicked out of the drug program. You know, it's just such a messed up system. It's a messed up system.

Yeah, and when I went to appeal their decision to kick me out, the regional officer was the lady's husband. Yeah, all that stuff's arranged. So, yeah, and, you know, I have a reentry court judge who is now like one of my best friends, which is a whole other interesting story. And when I tell her the story, she gets so angry. She's a federal judge.

She's like, Chrissy, she goes, if you came in front of me in Oregon, you wouldn't have got any time. I'm like, what? Like, that is effed up. Depending on where you are. You get no time. You get five years. You get, yeah, it's so arbitrary in the numbers that they pass out for these draconian sentences for a lot of the women, you know, is the thing that makes me fight. But, yeah, I tried to find the judge now that I'm here in Connecticut.

kid. He's 91 now. Is he retired? He's on senior status. So, yeah. Yeah, I mean, even the ARDAP program, it's all rigged. It is. And it's unfair. I actually had a woman message us to share her story.

She got lost the year on halfway when she was out in the halfway house, lost the year because she ate a poppy seed bagel. Yeah. Which happens all the time. But she actually sued them in federal court and won. Oh, she did. Got the time back, I think got money. that's very rare because you have to go through all the BP forms and everything and it's just, you know, it's a screwed up thing.

Good for her. Yeah, I know women that could do that too, you know, and win, I'm sure. Yeah, it's so messed up. It is so messed up. So the facility you went to, that wasn't a camp. It was a medical facility where they had a variety of women of all charges. It was maximum security. I mean, I was with the woman who, she was on death row and got out. She was the angel. of death, Kristen Gilbert. She was myself. I had a man who was a woman, who became a woman, cut off her penis in the men's prison to do her retirement prison in a women's prison. So she was actually, they allowed her. She was under me.

Were you afraid at all? Because it's technically a male. It's a male. Yeah. Like when I would be asleep, she'd say, Christy, get up. It's like, yeah, it was, I was. I was, for some reason, I wasn't afraid. Maybe a little bit.

But, you know, if we're standing or count, her hands were bigger than my head. Like, her hand would be there. And it's, yeah, it was someone who cut off their penis. Did the prison give her that surgery or she got on the outside? I'm not sure. Wow, that's a, I've never heard this perspective before. That's like some orange as a new black stuff right there. And she had long hair and the whole nine years.

She had blonde pigtails. blonde pig tails Wow And the wore a bra Everything I think I mean I would imagine Yeah

It was a good Yeah And you guys How were the cells Structured Were you guys Locked in Or was it

Free to roam around Free to roam There were four of us Wow That's interesting You guys are free to roam Even though They have maximum

Security prisoners there Well yeah Well on the other side They had admin Which I was I mean I didn't know What admin was

I was selling my landscape boss. Oh, you got to hire this girl. She's in New York, like, Chrissy. She's been an admin for, you know, 15 years. And I'm like, well, yeah, I'm thinking she's like a secretary. Yeah, administration. No, no, she's like maximum lockdown, you know. So the woman that was on death row, she was in federal death row. Yeah. Well, she was going to be on death row. She was at a Boston, but they said that if she wrote a letter, she wrote some kind of a letter talking about, I don't know if it was her experience or something, that they would just give her life. And did you get to interact with this woman at all? Yeah, I mean, I became friends with

her. And what's something that you want, like the audience that might be miss, you know, that wants to understand the mindset of someone like this? What have, what have you learned about her that others wouldn't necessarily see from the outside looking in? I've learned that you have no idea what people do. Like when I speak in women's leadership conferences and I stand up in my nice suit or outfit and they're all dressed in their suits and I say, you know, I would love to tell you that I was just, you know, in the middle of carrying this amazing, you know, I have this amazing cure for cancer or this new shoe line. But instead I just was released from federal prison. And you hear the gasp and I said, yeah, look at the person next to you. You have no idea what that

lady did yesterday. You have no idea the mindset, really, unless you live with the person. And so when I was living with Kristen, I mean, like when you're standing there, your legs almost are touching each bunk. So there's not a lot of room. So I would watch, you know, like to find something that was going to be a quirk or something that would reveal someone that would do that. And I mean, I never saw it. Had you read about her or seen like documentaries or anything before you got in there? No, I didn't. Her episode was on Snapped a lot.

So they would say, hey, Gilbert, your show's on. And she would cry. And so I felt bad for her. And do you think that she actually did the crime after learning about her and knowing her and not knowing anything about her beforehand? If you asked me, I would say no. Okay. In fact, there's a book about her and one of the other related. ladies that was like, you know, big in the prison.

She came up to her one day when I was there. She said, Gilbert, this book is going around. I don't believe you did it. And I'll get rid of all the books if you want me to, which is not something that lady would have done. That was not her personality. She was more tough, kind of not bully, but more tough. So I thought, okay, I'm not the only one that kind of thinks that.

Interesting. And how would the guards treat her? She was, they would treat her fine. She was very smart, very creative. She was a nurse. So if I ever needed anything, she would write, you know, call out for me to, well, was it a call out or I forgot what the words are that you write for me to see medical for something. And she would write it well.

And yeah. And what was she in prison for? They, um, she, they called her the angel of death, I guess. They said that she, it was a veteran hospital and that the guys were near, you know, that were dying, but she would inject them with something so that the doctor would come and the doctor would watch her save these patients. But sometimes they didn't get saved and then they died. Ah, I think I remember hearing about this case. And so she's still in prison now because she got life.

Yeah. Do you guys communicate at all? Mm-hmm. Wow. That's interesting. How do you tell people that? I don't tell very many people that. The ones you do, how do they respond?

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Isn't it nice to have someone like that on your side? Save up to 30% your first year at LifeLock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. I don't think they know what to do with that Because the most people that I'm around have never been incarcerated. Or, you know, I do a lot of work in the community and prison reform and all that. But I also believe that from my experience that I share a lot with those that have never been in prison.

So they can kind of see a different, you know, the stigmas kind of squashed a little bit. And so I don't think they could. I don't think people could really understand that because I wouldn't understand that if I didn't experience it. You know, like she would get letters constantly of people that would want her just to write them so they could have her signature so that they could sell it. And I'm like, what? That's crazy. And I said, when do you answer some of them? Because, you know, it's just you.

And she goes, and one time she did, she said, Chris, you don't understand. This is, you know, they, so here's what they want. They're crazy. Blah, blah, blah. And so she would answer. And then they would respond in a way that was not good. So I said, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that.

So she knows. What was the biggest misconception you had about prison that kind of got debunked once you got into prison yourself? The biggest misconception was that people deserved the time that they got, that people were bad people, that they were unsafe. And they were people that need to be in prison for that long. And how long did it take you to? realize that that wasn't true. I think when I got to Carr's well, because when I was at Wyatt, I was still in that

little room and there was pre-trial and, but yeah, when I got to Car as well, I realized that. Because, I mean, these women were in there 27, 33, 43, 42, 50 years. What was a case or an individual and it could be the one you were just describing

but that really resonated with you? That resonated with me in regard to like that I didn't think they should have that time that they had? Just in general, someone that left like a lasting impact, maybe someone that kind of showed you the way about prison or was actually innocent or was just like their total, their total life was just, you know, destroyed. So many. So many. I mean, there's there's case after case after case after case, a woman, you know, a woman that was, she was a fashion. She did

furs and fashion in Las Vegas. She had a business manager, you know, he, I don't know, some tax thing, and he threw her under the bus, and she was in there, she died in there in a wheelchair, you know, so there's other women that you can tell, you know, when I hear, when I was in R-DAP and people would explain their situations in their family life, and, and it was, you know, terrible. Did that person deserve 27 years for a drug offense? No. Did someone deserve, 32 years for, you know, writing a map for their brother who, you know, and how to get to a place. There's someone named Michelle West who's still in there for, I think, she's going on 34 years. I think she has two life sentences plus 50 or something ridiculous.

And she was 19 with the guy. I think someone got killed. The guy, everyone's home, except her. and she was the least she was the least what you call it part of the case but as a woman they seem like the women are always still in

and the men are already home I mean there's so many that's why I said you know when I first got out I wasn't going to tell anyone where I was because I moved to Oregon and I but I it just makes me so angry that

the world, the government just throws people away. When they released you, you went straight to Oregon? I did because Chad got out first because he did the RDAP program, it didn't get. Oh, you wanted to get back with Chad? Well, we were kind of together for a while through that and even before we started to use. So I thought, you know, I lost my house. His parents kept his house for him, kept everything. And so I thought I was just going to go back.

I thought, oh, I thought he was doing the same healing that I was, but he wasn't. Did you guys communicate while you were in prison together? Did they let you talk to each other, or did you just write letters? Not really, but they don't let you. How were you able to communicate with him? There was a time, I think, that we were allowed to at Wyatt, but either through like a three-way or letters. Okay. And so how much time did you serve in total?

Was it like four years? A little over four years. A little over four years. And then you had three years probation? I had five. Oh, you had five. Yeah, most drug offenses are five. Five.

But when I, so when I got out, I went to Oregon because he wasn't doing well. So I knew I wasn't going to go back there. And so my head was like, I don't want to, you know, I want to go home. You know, this is where I'm from. But my heart was like, I need to go to Oregon where my mom and my sister were. And so that was like the best choice that ever happened that I ever made. You know, there's not a lot around in National Oregon. and there's just trails and, you know, rivers.

And I really healed. It was really the first time I lived by myself and healed and went back to college. I had a reentry court judge. The halfway house said, you know, there's a reentry court. You go for a year, one Friday a month, and you'll get a year off your probation. I was like, yeah, right? I heard that before with our down. I'm not falling for that.

And they said, but I went. And it was amazing. The judge, her name was Anne Aiken. she there would be probably 12 or 13 people around the table you know with prosecutors attorneys judges um counselors police officers and then they'd say okay you know you were in um and so what she would say how is your month and these guys would talk forever about how their month is what they need and she would be writing things down and um making phone calls okay what do you need you need this okay we got you you need this okay we got you

and she would recommend books and movies and just really let everyone talk. And so we had to do that for three months watching, and then we could sign up to join that. So I did. And it was amazing. What were some of the biggest challenges reintegrating after losing over four years of your life to this? And I lost everything, like everything. Like I said, like I got a pair of jeans from a homeless person. and it was all the shame and the guilt.

And, you know, you're beat down inside prison. And like I said, for the lady to say that to me about not, you know, it's a great thing that I couldn't have kids. And so you're just like trying to gather, like trying to balance. And, you know, it was everything. It was everything that was hard, little by little. I think it's even harder to, like, have your life established. you know, live a life, have everything, and then lose it all and then try to rebuild from that too. When you're older and, you know, you had been through a marriage and so many things, you're literally at square one again.

Yeah, I was 52. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine dating, anything, you know, rebuilding. That's still hard. That's still hard. I know if I've date someone, I'm like, let's see, do I want, like. Yeah, how does that work when going on a date when you're a woman that has a criminal record? How do you even bring that up? That's funny.

This one time the guy was like, well, let's just get everything out on the table. Like, you haven't been to prison, have you? I was like, well, yeah, I have. So it's like you have to make a little bit light of it or else, you know, it's very hard. And, you know, it takes them all, you know. I don't say anything for a little while because it's kind of like you want to be transatlant. transparent, but then, you know, does everyone tell you like there's the worst thing they ever did immediately? So it's always a fine line. But I think the most important thing is you have to

like be solid in yourself. You have to make peace with where you've been, what you're doing. You have to be proud of yourself. You have to really be connected and so that nothing can really penetrate the solidness of who you are. Do you think it would have been even harder to reintegrate if you had kids yourself? Oh, I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine. Because it was hard just for me. But with kids, I mean, that's a whole other horrific experience.

And they give these women so much time. Yeah. Was your friends and family curious about what prison was like and were you open to talking to them about it when you first got home? I was open. People didn't really ask a lot about it. The people that I met in Oregon, like I said, I wasn't going to share, but then little by little I shared a tiny bit and the response from them was so lovely, for lack of a better word, that it kept me sharing a little bit more. They, you know, there was a lady. She wanted me to come over at house for dinner and I was like, she had, She had kids and I don't know.

I mean, I just wanted to tell her. And I said, I just want to let you know. I was in federal prison. I just got out. She goes, oh, I bet you have great stories, which was such a better thing. Which, you know, if she would have said, oh, really? And kind of step back in, you know, fear, then that would have been hard. But each time people responded in a way that was, that made me not feel bad.

Have you gotten negative reactions when you've told people? that you want to prison? Yeah. Yeah. Some. And you know what? I was at a place by that time that it's like, well, then I know that you're not the kind of person that I want to be, hang with. So that's fine.

And I also think you must have some stuff that you're hiding to. And I'll, you know, wish the best for you. How are you finally able to rebuild and create what you have now? How long did that take you? I was in Oregon for five years. I got a job at a hotel, which is real weird when you get out of prison and then you, you have the keys to this whole hotel. It's like, dude, you would not even let me like go to the bathroom when I wanted, but now

I have the keys to this whole hotel, you know. So I did that and I went to college and it was my reentry court judge. It said, why aren't you in school? And they kind of helped me, you know, with my papers. applying for school and things like that. So I went to school for innovation and leadership. And I got a tutor. And I think because I'm older, I asked for help.

At that point, I was like, okay, I'm going to need some help. And help meaning like I had to do a lot of hard work. So I wasn't given. I mean, there were people that were generous that, you know, would give me a TV in my house, you know, things like that that I gave back. but, you know, I had to work hard, but when I was afraid, I had to be afraid and keep doing it. And the results were amazing. I mean, I got good grades.

I got straight A's. And then I transferred to the university. And when I shared a little bit, people wanted to hear more. Of course, then the university wants to hear your story. Look what we get, look what we are doing for a woman, you know, who was in prison. a turning point for what I do now. One of my assignments was Twitter. I had to learn about Twitter and get on and do three tweets and retweets.

And there was a guy, No Vest, who sent me a private message. And he said, hey, Christy, I see you were incarcerated. And I just passed a law to remove the criminal history box on college applications in, I think he did in Washington. And he said, do you want to do it in Oregon? And it's a cool experience to pass a law as someone who was incarcerated. And I said, yeah, let's do it. And I had, you know, no idea what that meant. But over the next two years, we did that.

I met senators. And I learned about the whole government and passing laws. And we passed that law in Oregon. So now there's no criminal history box on any college applications in Oregon. And we're trying to get that done in all the states. That's great. Yeah. Because when most people come to that box, they don't continue, you know,

because they have this little line that says explain. And so, you know, you find yourself like begging, like, just give me a chance. I mean, just to get into the school. And so when someone gets their associates degree, the recidivitism rate goes down to 16%. I mean, they should do that for jobs too. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

I think unless it's like a specific job where your crime doesn't allow you to do that. Right. But overall, they should just, you know, eliminate that box. For sure. And there's no, and there's no, the statistic. show any crime committed on campus is not by anyone who's been in prison. It's always by younger people doing

crazy stuff. Yeah, and the ones that I'm sure that have committed a crime on campus to begin with or whatnot, they're normally like a school shooting type of thing and they're locked away forever. Right, exactly. So they wouldn't even be applying. Right, or maybe a drunk, you know,

someone's drinking, you know, committed a crime through something like that or whatever. But the majority are, you know, if someone has opportunity to go to school and you get your first test and you're doing well. You're like, you no longer look back on that lifestyle. You're on this other trajectory that, you know, that feeds your intrinsic value. And then you just keep going and going. And so I've met a lot of people that do a lot of work in their prison reform world. And I was floored by it. I had no idea that there's people out here

fighting. I just thought you were locked away when you get out. You know, good luck. But that's not it. so many amazing organizations doing great work. And so I just started sharing and I love to speak to women's leadership conferences or those that have no, that don't have anything to do with incarceration because I love, like I said, squashing the stigma of people who've been inside. And yeah, so I worked at, I moved to Louisiana, worked at Operation Restoration as a lead live coach. I wrote a book and I work with other legislators for different laws and do a lot of different stuff.

You know, it would be interesting to do like a poll on what, like if you tell the people that see you speak beforehand that you went to prison and then see what their opinion, like have them write their opinion and then what their opinion is after you speak. Yeah. Because that's just, I feel like it just changes so many perspectives, which just goes back to the whole concept of marking the box. Right. Like when you tell someone you went to prison, it's automatically, you know, a biased red flag.

Right. But then after they get to know you, you know. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny because usually that talk that I do, because it's not, there's no PowerPoints. I don't have all the, you know, that it's just me and stories and explaining, you know, different experiences. And because I'm talking to my old self. I'm talking to the girl that was dressed up selling shoes.

Nordstrom, you know, or as a stylist. So I know, I know, I know what's going to get to them. And so they, they always say that that was the best talk out of the whole conference because it was real and stories. And I do, and I have them interact. And I, and I bring up things about like, you know, knowing, like I have them check, like this little box that says, you know, check this box. If you ever feel any of these, like, these are women, you know, CEOs and stuff that says, I hate my job. You know, this is secret. No one knows.

So they click, you know, they check it. They say, I know I have what it takes to start something new, but I'm afraid. All those things. And these people are checking all these boxes. Then I have them, you know, fold it all up. And I say I'm collecting them, but then I repass them back out. So they're holding someone else's paper. And I said, this is a stand up for your sister.

So stand up if you have a piece of paper that says, I hate my job. And then practically the whole lot is a woo. And everyone's shocked. And you hear the gas, but I'm like, I'm not shocked because women, you know, they're doing what they got to do, but they don't know that they can be happy and free and love themselves. And they're going to have to set some boundaries and make some different decisions. But it's not easy. Yeah. Did you ever have any struggles with thinking about relapsing or any encounters with drugs after prison? I didn't. The only thing that surprised me was one day I was driving by a post office. And I was surprised that in my head it thought, wow, you know what? No one would know. You can just, you know, probably sell $10,000 worth

right now over the mail and no one would know. And I was like, what the hell? Like after all that, that was still a thread of a thought through my mind, which I didn't. I had no intention, but that that thought surprised me that it was there. I'm sure it's probably even harder now than ever to pull that off with all the like the screening. I don't know. I just feel like it's even worse. I don't know. I don't know.

Wow. That is, it's very crazy. It's very. Well, and that just shows your minds. The mind is so powerful. And so, you know, the mind can go that way. When the mind is focused on positive and, you know, joyfulness and love and connectedness. not to be all kumbaya, but really it's true.

Like whatever your mind is focused on, you know, it's powerful. So, yeah, when I had that thought, I was like, what the heck? And I'm sure there's a ton of people that are faced with that, you know, crossroads. Right. So what are like some helpful tips to kind of reel that person back in from the ledge right there? I think the number one thing is to have a friend, have a trusted friend that you can share all your stuff with. Like there was times that I'd be like, You know, I was back in Mexico.

And I had this feeling like I just like I want my old life back. I'm stepping into this new, like, you know, student and working at a hotel and I'm in this new city. And it's all good. But then this other part of you is like, like, wow, I kind of want that old life back, not remembering all the bad that was going on. And at the time I called someone, I'm like, I don't know why I'm feeling this way. You know, I started crying. I'm like, I don't know what, I don't know what's going on. So instead of judging the thoughts in your head, it just be like, okay, here it is.

It's going to happen. You're going to have these thoughts. And I'm going to talk to someone that I love and trust. It's not going to judge me that's going to let me process it and then move on. Now, if you could go back in time to when you first, you know, started this venture and, you know, you took it, you went down the dark path. Would you do it all over again? It's funny. My first response is, hell no.

The crazy thing is I don't know what would have happened, what would have had to happen for me to be the woman I am right now, the woman who is probably one of the most free mentally people that I've ever met, who's peaceful, who has a good spiritual, sense who is super solid into who they are. I don't know. Like, I think the number one question would be, how can I help women get there without going through horrific pain?

Yeah. If I could ever get that answer, I would be a millionaire because the, I don't know. I mean, I would not. It was terrible for so many things. I mean, I just don't know how I would have gotten to where I am now without all that. And the people that I get to be around, you know, when you say someone who's been in prison, like, I have juvenile lifers. I love. Like, my friends, I love. Like, I feel like when I look through my Instagram, it is the richest, most, and I'm sure you experience this, most amazing, eclectic group of people that have such depth. And I think when you have someone who has like the street smarts or that experience of, incarceration, who's gone to college, or who's helping others, there's something that is beautiful about that, that I would have never had if I hadn't gone through that.

Yeah, and I think it also shows that, like, you're never too old or too young to find redemption. There can always be, like, an act, too. Like, I'm this young and I'm already on, I feel like my act three. I was going to say. Yeah, like, I've lived a whole other life, you know, before this, which is, it's crazy to even think about. And people that are coming new listening to the show, they don't even, you know, realize that I had this whole, like, life before. Right. Which is just so crazy. And then there you have someone like you who is almost twice my age. Right. And you were able to find, you know, another act. And you've lived multiple acts. So I think that's inspiring to people that are kind of stuck. Because there is that stigma of, you know, your life is ruined.

And if you were able to bounce back at where you were in life, then you know, anyone else can too. Right, for sure. Yeah. So I wonder, like, so what do you think you're like X? Six is going to be like, where are you going to be X? Yeah, six. Like, that's still three more X. I mean, when I looked back and I thought I was going to be running the club forever.

And now, like, I think about a lot, like, am I going to be podcasting for 30 years? No. I don't know. I think when you look at like my genre, what I have picked, never runs out of content. because you have millions of people that went to prison. The more people that come on, the more people will be comfortable to share their stories. Then you have millions in law enforcement, millions of psychologists, millions of mental health. I'll never get to interview that many people.

No, you won't. But it's like, I don't know, I've done, I think this is like my 250th interview now and like a, you know, a year and a half. That's amazing. So I'm just, you know, it's so fascinating sitting down and talking to people. I'm Hannah. I've lost 75 pounds in 20 months with. GLP1s plus diet and exercise. On row, I've gone from struggling to run a mile to running farther every day. You can access FDA approved GLP1s online. Get the support you need to reach your weight loss

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It does put into perspective of what your life is going to be because I'm not even 30 yet. Right. Yeah, I was going to say. I mean, so if you're in act three, I can imagine you've got like so many more acts. And the one thing that I always say that I love this and this may be like my adventuresome spirit or my curiosity. Like I'm a curious person too that could lead you down a dark road if you're like curious or good. But I always say like I pretty much have an idea what my next month is going to be like. But after that, I have no idea. It just takes one phone call, one connection, one, anything to go down a different road. You know, that can like, I didn't think.

I mean, I live in the south with my friends like, you live in the deep south. I'm like, isn't that crazy? I live in New Orleans now. I would have never thought that. Well, I mean, what I've been thinking about lately is everyone like you grow up and everyone's like plan ahead for your future and this and that. I so disagree with that. Yeah. And then I like now I'm like, you know, live in the moment.

Right. Like I'm not so focused on, because I've learned a lot about patience and stuff, but because I was a very impatient person. But now like I'm more living in the moment, you know. Like we plan so much about planning for a rainy day and retirement and this and that. Most people, a lot of people don't even make it to there. Right. So what am I going to put money in some IRA or whatever?

account and saved, you know, when I'm 65, when I can be living now. And obviously, you want to be smart with, you know, finances and whatnot. Absolutely. You got to live in the moment. I agree. I agree. If someone's like, what are you going to be when you grow up? It's like, I mean, I'm sure I'm going to do so many more cool stuff that I have no idea what it's going to be. Yeah. And that's why it's cool to be entrepreneurs. Yeah. Because you can just like, if you want to go somewhere tomorrow, like look, you're here in Connecticut. Connecticut. You weren't even planning to come to Connecticut. No, I know. And now you didn't even. You weren't planning on sitting here at the studio.

Right. See, that's what I mean. You know, it's like if you're curious and, yeah, just reach out and to say, hey, you know, I'd like to meet you and here I am and now we're doing this podcast. How long have you been listening to it for? Boy, it's been, I don't know, maybe like a few months. How did you find it? I don't know. I don't know if someone told me about it or a lot of times when I'm flying, I like to download podcasts and listen to it. But the last one that I listened to was the Chevy Chase one.

That's so cool. Yeah, it was cool. I think that's when I texted you or sent a message. That's a little more of your speed Chevy Chase. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Just say it. It's that age group. Yeah, just because my name's Christy and Christy Brinkley was in this movie.

He's not my age group. No, like for childhood actors, like that's someone you looked up to. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I love to. Less than me. Right. You probably didn't know who he was.

Oh, I knew. I had to see the picture. I grew up watching Christmas vacation. So that's a class. But not Fletch. I had to watch Fletch the night before I interviewed him. Yeah, I don't know any of those other movies. It's funny.

But Christy, thank you so much for coming on and sitting down and sharing your story. It was very entertaining. I'm so glad. I didn't think it was going to take that turn, which is cool. Not in a negative way, but, you know, it's not every day you meet someone that's just casually trafficking them across the country. I know, I know, I know. Well, the book that I wrote has to do with trying to get as many people as possible to, like, make friends with their story, whatever it is, everyone has one, and to write about their own story and to love themselves through the process, give themselves a big, fat break, and then start making good decisions. Yeah, how does it feel to talk about it and, like, a different aspect of your story now after sitting here? Yeah, it feels good just because I, because of where I am today.

That's good. What advice would you give to women coming out of prison that might be uncomfortable of sharing their story or haven't even thought of doing that? Right. I think, first, heal as much as you can little by little. I think writing, that's the number one thing. Write every day. Write every morning.

Check in with yourself. How are you feeling? Are you off balance? Are you doing what's important? Where are you afraid? Who can I talk to to get me to help me with all my emotions that I have and just understand that you're going to work hard and do not be a victim? Well, sad. Well, thank you again. And safe travels back to Louisiana, right? Yep. I got to go there sometimes. Yeah, you've got to come to New Orleans. I've never been in New Orleans. Never been. Wow. And I just saw the show, Your Honor.

Oh, I started watching it. It's so good. I heard it was good. Yeah. Now I'm on prison break now. Oh, yeah. Can you watch prison break? I've never watched it before.

Have you seen it? No. Oh, you have to see it. It's so good. Yeah, I was texting Mike Rappap before earlier because I'm working on getting him on the show. Oh, awesome. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that'll be really good.

But yeah, the New Orleans of food. That's what I want to go for. It's the food. Yeah, and Marty Graas coming up next. I don't care about all that. But the food. food. I can see you there. I'm not a partier anymore. I like to be in. Like tonight after this, I go home, I watch prison break, I make some dinner, and that's my night. That's good,

but it's interesting as someone who's curious, it's interesting to watch the phenomenon of what Mardi Gras is. All right, I'll give you that one. All right. I'll let you know when I'm there. Okay. Sounds good. Awesome. Thanks, Ian.