Locked In with Ian Bick - Career Criminal Reveals His Go-To Crime, Prison Survival, and a Near-Fatal Shooting | Eric Paquin

Episode Date: June 9, 2024

A seasoned career criminal shares his experiences with his go-to crime, the challenges of surviving in prison, and the harrowing tale of a near-fatal shooting. Discover the raw and unfiltered truth behind his life of crime and survival. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Eric Paquin: https://www.instagram.com/paquineric0?utm_source=qr&igsh=M3gzeWx2cGs5c2Nz Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - A Life as a Career Criminal 00:04:27 - Growing Up in the Projects 00:08:59 - The Influence of Upbringing and Surroundings 00:13:31 - Life of Mistakes and Drug Use 00:18:15 - Life of Crime and Getting Shot 00:23:21 - Shot and fearing for my life 00:27:55 - The Hospital Arraignment 00:32:20 - Life in County Jail 00:36:48 - Daily Fights in Prison 00:41:35 - Life After Prison 00:46:11 - Life of a Career Convict 00:50:48 - The Downward Spiral 00:55:39 - The Legal Consequences and Betrayal 01:00:07 - Losing a Loved One in Prison 01:04:26 - Overcoming Addiction and Rebuilding Life 01:09:16 - Prioritizing Family Responsibility 01:13:36 - Getting Our Opinion Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Check out the results on Instagram. SoCal Plastic Surgeon or visit SoCal Plastic Surgeons.com. Confidence looks good on you. I hit the car. He goes under my truck. I don't even care. Like, I'm just trying to get away. I hit his partner with the front bumper.

He goes down. And then from that time, like, it must have been like that quick. Like, he jumped up and he just started shooting. He shot like four or five times. And he hit me once. We're through the windshield under my left eye, came out my ear. Welcome back to the Lockton with the InVic podcast. On today's episode, we have Eric Packin here from Massachusetts to share some entertaining stories from his time.

and life as a career criminal. Thank you to all the listeners that tune in week after week and sit through not only one, not only two, but three of the Locked-in episodes we put out every week. So grateful for all of you guys. Now let's sit back, relax, and get ready to lock-in with Eric Packin. Eric, welcome to Locked-in, man. Pleasure having you here today. Thanks for having me.

You drove up from Massachusetts. Yep, me and my daughter drove up two and a half hours. Now you're from the area that the town's based off of, right? Charles Town Mass, born and raised, my whole life. I grew up there. And you got the accent, too. Yeah, you know, it's funny you said that. I was like, I told my daughter, I was like,

don't get offended if they bring up your accent. You have it more than her, though. I haven't really heard it in her. Yeah, well, I'm 47. She's 13. And I, she's been, you know, shit, and I'm out of school. I'm, you know what I mean? I'm in the street, so.

Yeah. She's in school, learning the right way to talk. Yeah. So do people just, are people born with that accent or it just comes? How does that work with accents? It's just the way people talk around me and I talk, you know. When I moved up to New Hampshire and I started to talk like that, I kind of started to lose the accent.

But when I moved back to Boston, it just kicks right back in. I love the accent. It's so great. It really reminds me of the movie The Town. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so funny. So I heard you out there. You were talking to Matt about.

how you've been watching the show for a little while. Yeah. I just like the fact that you get to take in all aspects of it, you know, the law enforcement side, the, you know, the convict side, the lawyers, all of it, you know. Probation, everything, you know, just every aspect, because a lot of people don't know, you know. They're just stereotypes of, like, they're crooks and they're just bad. Yeah. That's it.

And it helps people get through it when they see that there's, like-minded people and people that were in similar situations. Absolutely, absolutely. Especially, like, just for yourself, it's like, you know, a lot of guys, you know, they go to prison and, like, they talk about just being that big tough guy.

Like, I went in there and I, you know, it's just not always like that, you know. And, like you, I mean, you did what you had to do, you know, to do your time and just like everybody else, you know. And, yeah, it's good to hear that. You know what I mean? You don't have to be the big, bad, tough guy to go in and do what you have to do to, you know, come out okay. Yeah, I got so many messages because I read my DMs and people are always like, oh, this person was full of shit.

This doesn't go down in prison. Let me come on and share my perspective of it. And I'm always like, everyone has a different perspective. And if I sat here and called bullshit on every single story, there's no way to prove whether I happened or didn't happen, you know? Let the audience decide. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, everyone has a, that's the prison world, you know, just like everyone has this different, unique experience.

Especially when different parts of the state, you know what I mean? It's just, I mean, country, you know, as far as like out west, down south, like, I'm going to be honest. I don't want to do time down there. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to do time anywhere, but I'm going to be honest with it. I ain't going to break the law down to Florida. It's just not going to happen, you know? Yeah.

But, yeah. So when you were growing up, did you have a big family, both parents, What was a living situation? So I grew up in Charleston, obviously, it's one square mile. It's not very big. That's it. It's just one mile. One square mile.

That's it. We have like, I don't know, one, two, three, four churches, two police stations. Like, it's crazy, you know. But yeah, I grew up until the age of seven with my mother, my father, you know, it was just us three. You know, at the age of six or seven, they got divorced. and just like the sad story, you know, everybody's sad story is theirs, but I came from living in a, you know, mother-father home in a regular apartment house, whatever, to the projects, you know, single mother in the projects, you know, and that doesn't take for a lot of good to come out of that, you know? and yeah so I grew up in the projects from seven to what was I probably like 18 when I finally get out of there you know do you think that if your parents didn't get divorced you would have

lived differently had a different upbringing I I feel like a male role model in any home is going to be better than not you know like it just would have been yeah no matter what it couldn't have been any worse you know but yeah so I mean I mean I mean I grew up up, you know, just like any other kid in the project, just running around crazy. But back then, everybody knew everybody. You know, you lived in the projects, but there was crime, but you knew everybody, you know. If you, if you walked down the street and you were doing something wrong, your friend's mother's going to slap you in the back of the head and tell you to go home,

you know, do what you're supposed to do, you know. But, um... Did you get picked on for living where you lived, bullied? Nah, I didn't get picked on for that. I got picked on because I don't have no money. I used to wear the sneakers from Kmart, you know what I mean? You know, clothes that, you know what bought at KMott, you know, I didn't have the champion, the Nikes, I didn't have any of that, you know.

So, yeah, I got picked on, you know, until I was probably in my teenage years, you know, middle school probably. Isn't that crazy that these kids pick on kids for the clothes you wear? Like I look back on it now because I remember people would, if you weren't wearing what the cool kids wear, and I don't wear design or clothes or anything like. that now and I you know I can't even think of people picking on someone for that like it's crazy yeah yeah I remember I remember the sneakers like they were yesterday they were called voits you know and I wore

them and like I just got picked on on a regular basis you know so I wonder where that mentality even comes from like what triggers in a kid like maybe it comes from the parents or well I mean when you grow when you grow up in an area you know all my friends and everyone was in the project so when you have nothing, right? You have nothing and then you think that this, this one thing, you know, gives you something, you know what I mean? You think it gives you status, you know, I have clothes, my parents have money or whatever, and it, it like distinguishes you from the rest. You know what I mean? And so it's like, I'm better than you because you get to understand, we're all in the bottom. We, you know, we're just trying to be better, you know, so that's what they, you know,

So they're going to poke at the stuff that they think is, you know, lower than them, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think it's great to be different, you know, to stand out. Like, if I, when I have kids one day, I'll send them to school wearing something outrageously different. They'll wear whatever they want. Exactly. I think embrace being different. That's my message to anyone, you know.

And I own that when I was a kid in high school. It was all about being different. And obviously that got me into trouble. But, oh, well. So what kind of kid were you? How would people describe you from that time period growing up? Quiet, I guess. I was quiet.

I am reliable. I wanted to be a cop. Like, that's what I wanted to be. Like, I went to school, you know, I did the homework, you know, and I just did everything I was supposed to do. You know, I was afraid of my mother, you know, like, you know, she was the law, you know. But as I got older, you know, I'm on the streets.

I don't want to wear Kmart clothes. Like, I want to be like everybody else, you know? So it's, then that's when the, how can I make some money, you know, as a kid comes into, like, how can I make my, you know, in your head you think you're a kid, there's no father, you're the man in the house, like, how can I do better? How can I get us ahead? Like, how can I get better, you know? And that's when selling stuff comes into play, you know?

Why do you think it automatically went to that? Well, not automatic, but I felt like I had to do something now. Like I had, like, oh, and I got pregnant. I was at 16. I got my first daughter. I was pregnant at 16. So it was like. Added pressure.

Right. So it's like, what are you going to do? Like, you're going to live at home? Like, you're going to, you know, you're going to stay at home with your kid and your wife and you're going to just live with your mother. You know what I mean? It's like, you got to do something. You got to do it now, you know? and that's when like selling drugs and you know doing all that stuff and you know you tell yourself that

you know i'm going to sell them but i'm not going to do them like i don't need to do the drugs to sell them you know and it just doesn't work out that way so there you don't think there was like some kind of influence that that would say hey why don't you go get a job do this do that like why do you think it went directly to drugs as a form of money where you inspired by someone? Was there some type of influence? I grew up, yeah, like in my neighborhood, it's just you either, and I'm talking about grandmothers, like, it's either you, nobody had a job.

You know what I mean? You know, your friend's grandmother used to sell her pills out the back door, you know what you mean, out the window, you know, whatever, or your uncle used to do Ahmed Kass, or, you know what I mean, or it does B&E's or whatever. Everybody was a criminal, you know, it's just like everybody I grew up with was like a criminal. So it's like that's what you did. You know what I mean? Like if you went to prison, like people, they thought it was cool.

You went to prison and came home. Like, that's cool. That's what I grew up with. You know, I just thought that that was supposed to happen, you know? So do you think if you had grown up in another town, like even just a town a few miles away, do you think it would have been different? I think, yeah. I think if I grew up and with, yeah, different, different, yeah, if I, you know, with my parents, both parents and in a home with, like, I wasn't on the, like, I wasn't on the, street, yeah. So with that logic, do you apply that now to the way you raise your children now,

making sure that they're in a different area and not kind of following those same steps? I wish I could say that they're not in Charleston. We're currently, I know, I'm working on that now. I'm obviously, I'm just, you know, I'm just trying to get, you know, my plan is to get them out, you know, completely. But yeah, I would love for my kids not to live in Charleston, you know. It's just not where, it's not a place conducive to well-being, I guess you can say, you know. And yeah, I don't want them. And I wish I could, and I'm going to be honest with you. I can say that I wish I raised my kids.

My oldest daughter raised my kids, my daughter, Kelsey. Because I just got clean five years ago, 2018 when I got clean at, yeah, that was four, six years ago. So it's 40 years old getting clean, you know. It's embarrassing, but sometimes it takes that long, you know. And what matters is that you are clean. Yeah, right. And it could be worse if you're sitting here saying I'm 40-something and not clean, yeah. So there's always a positive aspect to it, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's baby steps and it's a progress, you know. Progress is everything. As long as you're going forward, you know. Yeah, no, yeah. Forward, not backwards. It's definitely, yeah. Exactly.

So when you started selling, was that when you were using, too? Yeah, I started, you know, you start taking a, you know, I'll take a couple perks on a Friday night, you know what I mean? 16, 17 years old. Yeah, I'll take a couple perks, you know, and then a couple turns into five, then five turns into ten. Then 10 turns into, you're taking 80 perks a day and then... 80?

Back in the worst, before I heard about OxyContin, I used to take 80 perks a day on a regular day. basis easily 80 a day. Can you overdose from percocets? Well, it was more of the Tylenol that's in the percocet. Okay. That's why OxyContin was better because there's no Tylenol in it. It's just the drug.

But yeah, no, I mean, I'm sure if I took enough of it, it probably would have. But, yeah, it went from that to then the oxies, you know, they kick in and then it's all downhill from there. What was the feeling for you? What was the high that you were getting? Why did you enjoy doing them? I don't know, all that stress, you take that, and then it doesn't matter. Nothing mattered. Like, you took that and your whole body felt great.

It was just like nothing mattered. It didn't, like, all those bills they had to pay, don't worry, it'll happen, whatever. You know, it didn't matter. And then you're chasing it, just trying to be like that all day, every day, you know. What advice would you give your teenage self if you go back in time before you took that first pill. What would you say? Run. Run, run, run.

That's that was the, I remember it. I remember it was like yesterday. My buddy was like, yeah, he's like, you want to. I'm like, nah, I used to fight it. And he's like, no, he's like, you'll love it. You'll love it. I'm like. And once I did it, he was right. And it was all downhill.

Why do you think you gave in in that moment? It's a bad day, probably. I don't know exactly what, you know, happened that particular day or if anything was happening that day. I could have been a great day and I just want to celebrate, you know. I guess we're all just one bad step away from a lifetime of mistakes in that sense. And misery.

Yeah. Just that one, when you go back to it and you really dive deep. I mean, you were, for the most part, okay. Yeah. Until that moment where you decide to try it. Yeah. Yeah. And you lose.

I mean, I'm 47 years old and I'm still, I'm not even close to where I should be as a, as a, as a, as a, adult male, you know what I mean? Like I don't, I'm so far behind the eight ball. It's like, it's, it's tough, you know? Yeah. It's tough. Did you end up graduating high school? So I had, when I got, when I first, you know, we got pregnant 16, I, um, I was looking at that point, I guess just for any reason not to go to school. So I just, I stopped going to school. I went, I went directly and took the GED test because I was always smart in school. Like, I wasn't a dumb kid. Like I could have went somewhere if I, you know, put the work in. And I just, I just wanted the easy way out. So I just took the GED. You know, of course I made an excuse saying, you know,

I need to take care of my family. Like, that's the reason why. But in reality, it was just me being able to do more of whatever the fuck I wanted to do. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I didn't graduate it. I got my GED and then just went to the work for it. All right, everyone. Welcome to ARCO Rewards Orientation. I'm Hannah. Whoa. Is everything Okay. That's a code green. Someone just earned at least five cents a gallon in rewards. Wow. Another one? Well, that one's a code gold. The customer just redeemed savings of up to a dollar a gallon. Impressive. What does that one mean? Oh, that's just piggy. He gets excited when we talk about rewards. Savings of up to $1 per gallon redeemable with $20 rewards dollars in your loyalty account at participating locations, terms and conditions apply.

You know? What's the workforce? Is that like a program? No, no, just like, into the world, just into the world, just into the work for, you know, doing work, construction, you know, and I worked two jobs when I had my first kid. I did, yeah, I worked two jobs. I worked security and then I worked at McDonald's in the morning for 18 hours, 16 hours a day. I worked. And were you and the mother still together at that point? Yep, we were together. We were together for like 20 years, yeah.

So we lived, we had our child and we ended up having two kids, you know. Kelsey was She was probably like Three years old When we had my second child Ashley And we were living in Cambridge, Mass We had our own place You know, we were doing good

I was working two jobs You know And that's, you know When it started, you know I was doing good And that's when I you know The drug use starts You know 17, 18 years old

You know Here and they're drinking, potting And just Yeah. Is that when the cop dreams went out the window too? Oh yeah. Those were gone and probably about, yeah, 17, 18 years old. That was, yeah.

Once I got my GED, I figured I was like, yeah, that's it. I'm just going to. I figured I'd do construction for the rest of my life, you know, construction or work, whatever, manual labor. You know, I had no ambitions. I was like, I was going to do construction and sell drugs. Like, that's, I was going to be a kingpin. That was the inspiration of kingpin. Yeah, I was going to be, you know,

me, I mean, Nino Brown, I was going to be Scott Face. Like, that's what you think. Like, you honestly think, like, I'm just going to sell all the drugs in the world and I'm going to be rich, you know, and that's just... So what happened? Why didn't that work out? Yeah, yeah, it's just because it never does. Like, it's...

So, yeah, you know, she throws me out, which, you know, which makes sense. Like, why would you want some junky pieces? You know what I mean? You just don't want that, you know? And at the time, she was doing good. She was sober. She didn't do no drugs. She was a mother, you know?

She stayed home and did, you know, took care of her. or the kids, you know, you know, a slight potty and whatever. But yeah, so she had to get rid of the dead weight, which was me, you know. And, yeah, I mean, I just left her, went with someone else and just continued selling drugs. And I actually started selling a lot of drugs in Charleston for a long time for a few years. Like, I sold a lot of drugs. And, yeah, we did okay, you know, but it's not like I bought a house and moved on. I still lived in the projects, you know.

And go nowhere. I'm still on that one square mile, you know. But yeah, and it just got worse and worse, you know. When was the first time you got arrested? So, the first time I got arrested was, what fuck was it? Oh, yeah, it was when I got, it was when I got shot. You got shot? Yeah, yeah, so yeah, yeah.

So this is the first time I did time. Like, I never really got into trouble. Like, I never got caught. I always paid, so I would have someone else carry the drugs. Yeah, I'm not going to do the time. Like, here, you carry the drugs. I'll give you drugs for free. You carry the drugs.

You run. So I kind of was like careful like that for a while. So I never really gotten any arrests. But, you know, at the end of it, you know, when I was around, I was probably like, no, when I was 21 is when I started doing heroin. That was what, that was the age I swore. went from oxy cotton into heroin. And I,

I want to say, I was 20, I got shot in the head, so I got my time lines sometimes I messed out. Yeah, yeah. So I want to say I was like 24, 25 when I got shot.

But, yeah, so I woke up sick from, you know, doing, you know, because when you do heroin, you physically get sick, you know, you have no choice. Like, it's not like, oh, maybe I'll get up and get some heroin.

you know, it's, no, definitely you're going to get some heroin. It's like how you're going to get it, you know? So at that point in time, it was less like I would get up and just rob the first person I saw. Like I'd get up in the morning and just grab a weapon and the first person I saw would get robbed. And it's sad that that's how I lived, but that's how I lived. And if I didn't see anybody, I'd break into a house. You know, I'd break into your house. I'd break into the neighbor's house.

If I knew my neighbor wasn't home, I'd break into his house. I don't, I didn't care, you know. And, yeah, so I did that that morning. And I stole a vehicle out of the house. I stole a laptop and whatever else was on the counter. And, yeah, and the spree was on. That day was, it was like a fucking crime spree. Yeah, I took the stolen car.

I went and picked up this chick that did shoplifting. You know, she'd go into like CVS and whatever, Walgreens or whatever, and steal a bunch of shit and then go into, you know, the bodega on the corner and sell the stuff, you know, and then they would sell it, sell it, you know, whatever. So, you know, we went to two or three different CVSs. You know, we filled up the car back seat with all sorts of, you know, all the stuff that's locked up now because of people like us, you know, it's like, you know, deodorants, shampoo and, you know,

Baby formula, whatever we could grab, you know, whatever she grabbed. And, you know, we're talking five, six hours after I stole the car, after I broke into this house that now the cops are looking, right? Obviously, they're going to be looking for this car. It's like, and I'm, no, I'm not in another town. I'm two streets over from the house that I just broke into. Literally, two streets over. And I'm sitting in the car outside this bodega that they know by stolen shit.

shit and the cops roll up. So I told her, I'm like, I don't stop for cops. Like, I'm not stopping. If they pull up, it's on. Like, it's, we're in a chase. So either you get out of the car and run or you are in for the chase. Like, that's it. So you make a decision, you know?

And she was in the back seat, like, outside the car looking, like leaning into the car when the cops pulled up. And I'm like, what are you doing? Like, because it's on. Like, I'm not going to stop. you know and um you know she stops shuts the door and walks away keeps moving and the cop car stops like he's supposed to do when he sees a stolen car but um they didn't do a felony stop you know shut the car off put your hands where i can see him they just ran up to my vehicle and opened up the car door

so i threw it in reverse i hit the cop he goes under my truck it's a four it's a it's a it's a it's a range rover. So he goes under the truck underneath the vehicle. I don't even care. Like I'm just trying to get away. I hit his partner with the front bumper.

He goes down. And then from that time like it must have been that quick. Like he jumped up and he just started shooting. He shot like four or five times from what I understand.

And he hit me once. We're through the windshield under my left eye, came out my ear. And when that happened, obviously everything went black. I couldn't see nothing. But I was still conscious. Like I wasn't, so I heard the glass break.

I thought it was a blackjack. You know, the cops used to carry them blackjacks and smash in the head with it. I thought he broke the window with it to pull me out. No, that was the window shattering when the bullet went through the window. But so I put it in park, get out, and try to run. And I can't see. So the cop throws me to the ground, fucking steps on my head,

and he starts calling for an ambulance for a gunshot wound. And I realized that I've been shot, and I start screaming like a little girl. I'm like, I'm dying, you know, the cop's like, shut the fuck up. You know what dying? He steps on my head. He's like, pointing the gun in my face. He's like, just shut up, you're not dying. And it's just so scary, man, you know, I don't care.

And I know guys like, yeah, I got shot. I'm like, dude, it was scary. I thought I was going to die. I thought that was it. And all I could think about was my kids, like, I'm. I'm never going to see them again. I'm never going to see my girl again. I'm never going to, you know, my wife.

I'm never going to see her again. And it was just scary, you know. What's that feeling of being shot? Like, do you feel it in the moment? No. You don't feel anything. No. It just happened so quick.

I mean, I didn't know that I was shot. I mean, it didn't hurt enough for me to say, oh my God, I've been shot. It was, I think the adrenaline or whatever. It just went blind. I just went blind from the, um, from the, whatever, the gunshot or the pressure or whatever. And, um, when it start to clear up and you see all the blood, yeah, it's scary. So is that normal protocol to just start shooting into a car like that?

Well, actually, to be honest with you, the year before they had just prior, prior to that, the Boston police had just passed a policy where they're not supposed to shoot into a moving vehicle unless they have a firearm. Unless they're, you know what I mean? Unless I have a firearm and I'm, you know what I mean? actively shooting because they had shot into a stolen vehicle and killed a pregnant woman. Yeah, because you could have innocent bystanders in that. And yeah, they weren't supposed to do that.

So that's why I didn't get much time for this whole thing. Oh, because they made. Yeah, so there was mistakes on everybody's side, you know. Now, granted, what you were doing was wrong. You put a cop's life in jeopardy at the same token, too. You ran over one. But I'm just, I don't know about the whole shooting into the car aspect. too. That just seems like a heavy escalation. What happened to the cop you ran over?

Nothing. Stress. That's it. So he's okay physically. No physical harm. Just stress, obviously. You know, I mean, it's a stressful situation. And, you know, a lot of people don't realize, you know, cops don't really fire their weapon in the line of duty a lot. You know, people, you know, there's people on the, so they're not really, you know, there's a difference between shooting out of target and then shooting in a real live situation. So, you know, it's scary. And it is. It probably takes a toll on the body, you know, that adrenaline and whatever. But, I mean, he was out on stress when I got, you know, when I finally went to court and everything.

How long are you in the hospital for? So, so I'm in the ambulance. And for whatever reason, I assumed that it was a 9mm cup, you know, I'm, yeah, I don't know. You know, I don't know anything at that point about weapons or anything. So, and then the cop comes into the, into the car, the ambulance, and the ambulance driver asks him, he's like, what did you, what did you shoot him when? And he says 40, for whatever reason that made me freak out. So I'm like, oh, my God, I start throwing my hands around. I'm like, I'm dying.

There's blood spraying everywhere because I'm covered. And the cop's like, you know, the ambulance driver's like, you're not dying. Just relax, whatever. So finally we get to Boston Medical. with, no, Mass General Hospital, which thank God because it's one of the best plastic surgeons, you know, in the country, they got some of the best. And so we go to Mass General.

Now, I assume that we go into the emergency room, doctors are going to come running, right? And they're going to come in like in the movies. Like, get them this and we need that. No, they wheeled me into a hallway with the cop and left me there. I was there probably for about a half hour just sitting there bleeding. And I'm like,

saying to the cop, I'm like, listen to it. I'll take anybody that works in a hospital. I don't care. Like, the nurse, anybody. Like, I just, I'm scared over here, you know. But they don't care because I just ran over one of their offices. Like, they don't give a shit about me, you know. So, yeah, I spent the night in the hospital.

I was in Nashville Street the next day. Within 24 hours, I was in a lineup. Within 25 hours, I was in a lineup. And I was in County Holden in Nashville Street. you jail. And after the judge said, listen, because they came and they arraigned me in the hospital bed the next morning. Inside the bed, they arraigned you? How does that work? I haven't heard this before. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, speedy trial. You have the right to be arraigned. Wait, but who do they bring, though? They bring everybody. So they bring, they bring the judge,

the court offices, the lawyers, everybody, the DA, everybody comes to the court. You know, obviously there's no citizens there. To the hospital. To the hospital. to the hospital room, yeah. So now at this point, I didn't tell you, but I still don't know what happened to the cop at this point. So as far as I know, he's dead. The cop, because I'm in Boston police custody. And they don't tell me nothing.

They just keep telling me I'm going away forever. Like, you're never going to see, you're never going to go home. That's what they keep telling me. So, like, because I was all on Klonapins, I was all messed up. So I don't really remember a lot of it. but they're like, you know, you're never going home, kid, you know, and like I'm supposed to think that these guys, you know, I'm going to lie to you. Like, you don't really know.

But I'm like thinking in my head, like, I'm never going to, I'm going to, I'm going away forever. You know, my lawyer comes in finally, you know, because he comes with the DA and the, you know, the judge and all that. So I have to see him first. And he's telling me, you know, he's like, no, he goes, what? He goes, no, nothing happens. He's fine. He goes, no, he's like, he's like, you're fine. Relax.

He goes, nobody's dead. I'm like, geez, I started crying. Because I'm like, I thought I was going away forever, you know? And, yeah, it's the scariest thing, man, you know, when you don't know, when you don't know, you know. And yeah, he's like, no, he's like, no, he's fine. He just got to scratch or something. He's fine. He's out on stress.

He's good. So, you know, yeah, they bring the judge in. The judge sits at the bottom of my bed. The DA's over on the right. It's had my attorney's on my left. I have the news cameras and everything are all there because obviously it's a big story. I was all over the news for a couple, you know, a couple days, a week or whatever. And yeah, so they do that right in the hospital bed.

It's the whole court proceeding right down in the hospital bed, you plead guilty. Incredible. And what was your actual charge? The assault would attempt to murder on a police officer, two counts of that, receiving stolen property, breaking and entering. You know, they throw everything on they can think of

receiving stolen property, you know, loss in the under. They just throw as much as they possibly can onto you. You know what I mean? Did they link you

to the robberies earlier? Yeah, I had the car that was from that apartment. Oh, that was a car that was the late range over. Okay. From two streets over. Weren't the smartest criminal.

No, you know, it's like, because I got to be close, why would I leave that one mile? I got to steal the stuff, sell it to the same store and my drug dealers

that neighborhood so why would you know what I mean so did they then connect you to the other robberies too that you did over the course of oh yeah so yeah so they knew so they seen the girl they knew who the girl was they knew went directly to her they knew who it was you know and you know course she tells them you know which they already knew everything it's not like it was a big secret so it's like yeah they you know we um you know so-and-so was with you Lisa was with you and you know we know this that they actually thought the girl that was with me was my wife because she had dark hair and like they knew me and her like Bonnie and Clyde you know what you mean like so they assumed it was her but it wasn't her but eventually yeah they caught up to

her you know got the you know the gist of it so i got charged with that they tried to charge me with the CVSs the Walgreens everything you know it's like I didn't do it all man count down yeah but so do you get bail after that or they leave you they transfer you right to the county So I do get bail, but I'm poor. My family ain't bailing me out. They're like, you deserve to be there. My brother said it to me. He's like, you deserve to be there.

Like, you know, when I'm bailing you out, like, not that they could. You know, it was like $50,000 or something. And so you go right to jail, Nashville Street. That's like the whole, you know, pre-trial. That's where you get before. You know, you've been there before to a place like that, obviously. And this is your first time ever really in jail. Yeah, you know, that's my first experience, you know.

I mean, I've been around the lifestyle. I know everybody. So it wasn't really scary because it was county. I mean, it's like juvie or something. It's not really, it's not really bad, especially Nashville Street. It's not really that serious, you know. So it wasn't that scary to say, you know what I mean? How are inmates looking at you?

Are they thinking like you're a cool guy because you were in like the shootout with police? Well, yeah. So you automatically, well, obviously, you know, you can win. And they're like, yeah, this motherfucker just ran down two cops, you know. And so you get that kind of like, everybody wants to hear the story. And, you know, it's like, yeah, you tell the story or whatever, that's fine, you know. But yeah, so everybody wanted to know. So everybody knew who I was.

But they put you right inside. When you have a high bill in Nashville Street back then, they put you right in segregation, which is 23-hour lockdown. So my first experience of prison was 23-hour lockdown. like I mean jail like that's what I thought all jail was yeah that's how I felt too when they they put me in jail I was like this is what you got to do the whole time yeah so I was up there and now you're up there I was up there for six months and all going to trial and all you know in and out of court and all this stuff but while you're still on trial your bill's still set so you with a high bill I can't leave like I'm stuck up there in this unit that has no no no No wreck. You get an hour wreck. They want to give it to you at 2.30 in the morning. So it's like take it and stick it up your ass. I'll stay in myself. You know what I mean? So you don't end up really getting any wreck. You're locked in your cell all day, every day.

And are you all bandaged up too? Yeah, I look like a giant Q-tip. Like, you know what the fucked up part is? When I left the hospital, they brought me right from the hospital to Boston police headquarters in a Johnny with a Q-tip on the top. Like, I look like a giant Q-tip, right? for a lineup because there was a witness that saw me coming out of the house when I broke into the house

I'm like bro but he was from Charleston so you know he did the right thing he didn't he didn't say it was me he's like oh I'm not sure but I mean like you just set me up like the person that did it got shut and I'm sitting there with a big bandage on my head

you know yeah it's like they set you up to feel you know it's just you were guilty though yeah it was not Granted, but, you know, the judge said, wait till I heal up and then take them in for lineup. They took me in 30 seconds after he said it. I'm like, this is a setup, but like you said, I did it, you know what I mean? I got away with a lot more than I got caught for, so I mean, I'll take my time, you know what I mean? How much time do they end up giving you?

So I ended up taking a bench trial. You took a bench trial? Everybody says that when I said that. Dude, that's balzy. Right, right, right. They didn't offer you a deal, like a good deal? Well, no. Believe it or not, they did not offer me a deal. You got caught in the car.

Yeah. So, I mean, but well, this is how, you know, it just works working and living in a small town, square mile. Now, a lot of my friends, obviously, criminals, they go to jail, get caught, get arrested, and a lot of them need help. So I was always willing to help out a friend. So I was always that supportive friend that was in the courtroom. So I was always, the courtroom, the judge, Sullivan knew who I was. The bailiff knew who I was. Court officers knew who I was. Everybody.

So they knew who I was, but they didn't know me as a criminal. You know what I mean? They only knew me as a supportive friend that came in to help my friends that have been in trouble. You know? So when I got in trouble,

a lot of them spoke up for me. You know what I mean? The judge, and they kept it in district. They didn't indict me, which is they could have indicted me and gave me 20 years for trying to kill a cop, you know?

But where everybody knew me in the courthouse, they kept it in count. county and I ended up getting two years. That's it? Yeah, two years. Yeah, that's all I got. Yeah, two years. Wow.

You know, so I did, two years in county. I did in South Bay, which is one of the worst. I don't care what anybody says. It was worse than state prison. They're brutal in there. It's brutal. Describe what it's like. So the units are 180 convicts on a unit, two cops.

So you're talking, what's the ratio? Like is there's nothing, you know what I mean? There's no, there's no help. You know what I mean? So if something goes down, you either defend yourself or have some friends that are going to help you. You know what I mean? And that's just how it is. It's 180 guys in a block is a lot of guys.

How often is something going down? Every day. I mean, I've seen people get, I mean, not to the extent where the cops get involved, but I've seen people fight on a. daily basis, over nothing, over a shower, over, I don't even, over just looking the wrong way, you know, it's crazy, using the wrong phone. You know what I mean? Like, are you serious?

It's just like, you don't want to live like that. How long to take for you to adjust to like the politics of it and the rules that inmates create? Well, and might as well, like I said, I went to segregation. So when I first got out there, I was six months, I went to on the eighth floor. It's not considered Completely segregation Because it's two-man cells

So my first experience I walked in the cell I was big black guys I forget his name It was a sweetheart right Jacked Just did seven years in county Two and a half

Three two and a half sentences On and after it was crazy And he's the first thing he says And he's like you work out I'm like no And he's like you do now I'm like all right You know

Like this guy was so big Like he used to work out He used to work out his neck. Like he put books on his head and like, it's just crazy. But so I was up there for six months. After the six months, they let me into population. That's the 180 units, you know.

I was there for three weeks before I got put back in segregation for a fight. So I was there for three weeks, you know. And when you walk on, when you go to population in County in South Bay, usually it's segregated I mean that's just how it is not to the point where you don't talk I dealt with everybody we're friends with everybody everybody was friendly we you know everybody got along

but when it got down the business it was just segregated that's just the way it is so when you walk on the block the first thing that happens is usually 90% of the time is you'll get a package like shower shoes soap deodorant coffee cream Whatever you need to just get you started from the white guys, you know, they'll take care of you, you know, towel, shower shoes, stuff that you have to buy that the state doesn't give you, you know, to get the good stuff, you know. But, yeah, after that, you get that, then, you know, obviously when you get on your feet, you kick into the kitty, you know, for the next guy, you know.

But yeah, it's just how it is, you know. And what was your fight over? Something stupid, like it always is. So in there, in state prison you sit wherever, you sit at certain tables. You know how that goes. That's in the feds, too, whatever. But in county, you eat on your block. So what happens is they call the cells.

They'll crack your cell. You get in line. You don't cut line. You get in line. And where you get in is where you sit. So it was Fish Friday. I don't know. Yeah, we had Fish Friday too, every Friday.

State Prison, Fish Friday. That's because kosher and all that stuff. or whatever, so that, you know, don't eat meat on Friday stuff. So, anyway, so you eat fish on Friday. So I ended up sitting across from this dude that refused. I've had conversations with him more than once about chewing with his mouth closed. And it's like, you know, it just takes having a bad day. You know what I mean?

It just takes me, you know, someone looking at me the wrong way that for this guy to chew his mouth open him, you want to slap him. You know, so I says, hey, dude, chew your fucking mouth closed, dude. I'm not going to, like, we're not going to have this conversation again. And he said some slick shit out of his mouth and I just get up and hit him. And where it wasn't a fight, he was, it was, he was a small kid, you know. I felt like a bully after. He, you know, he went down and that was it. It wasn't really a fight.

I got logged back to the hole and I spent another six months there. You know what I mean? So I spent almost 13 months in segregation when I first got there. When you got back out, did you run back into him? I did see him again. I did see him again and I did apologize. And, you know, he was kind of like, fuck you, which was, I understand completely. But I did apologize to him.

I saw him in medical because I used to have to go to medical all the time for my head. And yeah. Were they giving you medication for your head injury? Yeah, I was getting some pain medication. How did that affect your addiction issues that were going on? So, yeah, that's a good question because when I first went to prison, obviously they don't give you anything. And when I went to jail, they don't give you nothing.

They don't give you Subox and they don't give you anything. You cold turkey, suck it up, bitch, keep moving. And, yeah, so they didn't give me them. But they had to give me pain medication for my head because I had a lot of nerve damage and stuff. Like, I'm blind in my left eye. Like, I can't see that. You're completely blind? Yeah.

Like, I can see light. That's it. And my eye socket's titanium. My cheekbones, titanium. Wow. All that, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, they had to give me pain medication. So, but when I was getting close to the end of my sentence, I took myself off of it because I was, I really wanted to do the right thing, you know, because I thought, and I meant that every time I said it, you know, this was the time, you know, like, if this doesn't change it, like, what, what's going to? Like, if this doesn't make me better, like, if I can't take this as a learning experience and do better, like, what good are you? Like, really, you can't take this and go forward from that?

And yeah, no, I couldn't. Like, that's just not my story. Like, I had to keep pushing. You know what I mean? So, yeah, so I get out and kept going. Like, I just didn't stop. I just kept going, you know. And it just got worse.

Why do you think that wasn't a deterrent, that first prison bid? Because it wasn't that bad. Really getting shot at the head by the cops and go to jail? No, that was bad. You know what? And, you know, that was bad, you know, getting shot. But in my opinion, in my thought, in my head, I was going to be like, dude, you kidding me? I'm going to get out and all the chicks are going to be like, look at this dude with this guy, you know.

That's not the case. You're a loser, dude. You ran down two cops. You're a complete loser at this point in your life. You know, you have nothing to off anybody. Nobody. Like, why would you be that dumb? So, yeah, I know, I just kept pushing the envelope.

How old were you when you got out? I want to say I was 25, I think. I want to say 25, 26, I think. No, wait a minute. No, wait a minute. I got shot when I was 26 years old when I got shot. I get out a year and a half after that. So it was probably like closer to 28 when I got out, when I get out.

What was your plan once you got out? Oh, I was going to stop my own business. I was going to be a business mogul. know, I was going to be rich. I was going to own my own construction company and I was going to, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I was going to do a demo company and that's what I was going to do. Yeah, that does, it just, I just didn't put the work in. If you don't put the work in, it's just not going to happen, you know.

So I went the easy route. I went back to doing what I did. You know, I would roof and do, you know, roofing and stuff. And then I would just sell drugs and do drugs. That's it. And save absolutely nothing. So you had almost nearly another 15 year run. after that first sentence.

Yeah. Of just, you know, drugs, addiction. Were you continuously getting arrested? I would get arrested here and there, you know, for like stupid things. You know, here and there I get arrested for stupid things. But nothing ever really... I was on probation the whole entire time. I was like, you never get off.

Never ending trap. Yeah, exactly. So I tell everybody. My son-in-law, his brother, you know, God bless him, his name is Jason. and he's doing really good. He's in the program now, and I'm super proud of him. And I tell him, I told him, take the time.

I'm like, don't fuck around. Just take the time. I was like, take six months right now. Go to court, tell him you take six months and then take all the time for all your cases and run them concurrent. I'm like, don't not take probation. Unless you are serious.

You know what I mean? Because the reality is, he's going to be on probation the rest of your life, you know? I mean, you're not on probation. No, I got off in 2022, too, but it's scary having that over your head. Because you don't need a reason. They don't need a reason.

They can just come in here and you can say something that they don't like and they can lock you up. And it's your word against theirs. And it's just there's no, there's no judge in these probation things. Well, I mean, there is a judge, but there's no, like, jury. Yeah. There's no wrong reason. Like he did. The judge isn't going to say, oh, well, no, that's a dumb reason.

Oh, there's going to go with a P.O. 90% of the time. I mean, I think that's one of the flaws, too. There should be, like, stages to it. Like, if you get a prison sentence, I think if you go through a process of rehabilitation or reentry in prison, you shouldn't then be attached with the probation. You should use your time in prison as like the probation. They check the boxes. Everything's good. Then you get out and then you're free.

Yes. I don't know if you necessarily. Obviously, you need supervision for some of like these sex offender cases or certain cases like that. But if you're going to prison for something that was related to a drug crime or anything like that, it should maybe mandatory counseling or something. But the excessive probation, you did your time. It should be done there. Yeah. No.

Yeah. Parole is okay. I understand parole as far as that goes. But the probation, man, take your time. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's scary. It's scary.

And especially it's for someone that's never done any time. And it's like, nobody wants to go to jail. Yeah. Because it's not a three-year sentence isn't really a three-year sentence when you add the probation. and the pre-trial and all that, that should all be accounted for. Yeah, exactly. And you're doing fucking life on installment plans.

You know what I mean? That's what my father said. He's like, what are you trying to do? You're trying to do life installment plans? Like, I don't understand, you know? Yeah. But yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, so, yeah, it was 15 years of Vinn and out of drug treatment programs. I had two more kids, obviously, you know.

I had my son, Dylan, he's 20. And then I had, you know, so I got Kelsey, who was 29, she's the matriot. of the family. She runs this family. If it wasn't for her, I don't know where I'd be. And that's, you know, it's scary. But, yeah, my 16-year-old daughter saved our family, you know. And, yeah, she was there.

She took care of me while I was in prison. She took care of my kids while I was in prison, too. And, yeah, 15 years of drugs and just in and out of detox, yeah. Was that two years your longest sentence? Up to that point, yeah, it was my first sentence. My first sentence was two years. Everybody else gets six months, 30 days. I get two years.

I don't... And the other times you got arrested, you never did any serious time. No, I continue without a fine. And I got a couple of receiving stone property. I embezzled some money out of a store I worked for. Yeah, I mean, I just did every petty crime you can think of armed robberies. I did... I just did everything, you know?

You're a career convict. Yeah, like, I give you an example of my little corner store in my own neighborhood. Yeah. Like, why not shit where you eat? So I'm sick. This is when I was probably, this is before I went to jail. I took, my buddy were both sick, so decided I'm going to rob this store that I go to every day. The same store I go every day to get soda and candy, ice cream, whatever, I'm going to rob that store.

So I go in to rob the store. And, you know, I go in with the pistol. I go in. It's covered in plexiglass, right, except for a little slut. So I think I'm going to stick the past. pistol in there. I'm going to tell me the money. Give me the money. I'm going to leave. Easy. Don't fuck around. She picks up the stool, proceeds to hit me, to handle, hand with the gun, hit me with a stool and tell me to get out. So I'm like, this fucking bitch. So I think in my head

that I'm going to kick this plexiglass door and kick it in. So I kick it. His thing bouncing back so fast it throws me to the ground. I'm on the floor, drop the gun. Right? So now I can't get in. Now I'm leaving with my tail between my legs. I run out of the store, drop the gun, kick it under the car, this car that I'm running. So now I'm not only running from a store that I didn't get no money in,

I'm sliding, climbing under a car to get a gun that I just dropped and kicked to run into my buddy's house where they can see from the store what building I'm running into. I don't know how I didn't get arrested. And then I go up there and tell them, yeah, I did it, but I didn't get no money. You know It's just happened That's just the The life of like

Just being a dirtbag You know Yeah It's just It was terrible Aren't you glad You've gotten through Those days

Oh God I mean When you look back on And reflect on Like some of the crazy shit We do During our Our rock bottom moments

You know You laugh about it now But it's crazy to see Like How far the growth is You know I think about some of the shit I did

Yeah You don't think Yeah I mean Got where you got you where you went. It was all a buildup, you know. It was all life experience and it taught me. And it makes you think now more than anything about consequences and actions.

And everything has a consequence directly, whether it's a positive one or a negative one. Yeah, yeah. And it makes you the person you are. I mean, I'm grateful for the man I am today, you know. And, but like, I just, I mean, after them 15 years, once I finally, I mean, that didn't end. Like I went, the last thing, like, so what brought me to stay prison, I, I followed a chick. Yeah, I mean, I met a girl in detox. Why wouldn't you?

You know, I met a girl in detox and I was like, ooh, she's going to save me. So I moved to Taunton. You know what I mean? I forget how old I was. Probably 10, 15. Yeah, it was right after, yeah, probably in my 30s, young 31 or something. So I moved to Taunton and with her We're doing good

I'm sober a year My kids are coming up to visit me You know my two oldest ones You know coming to visit me We're doing good and I'm working I'm working And for whatever reason

It just took one person Like I wasn't talking to anybody doing drugs It just took one person That I saw that was fucked up That I was working with And of course Why wouldn't I want to talk to that person You know

and it just went downhill from there. I started using again in Taunton. My girlfriend found me OD in my bedroom. I mean, in my house, she was supposed to go to the gym. She wanted to get a couple bananas for after the gym or whatever. So she stopped at the house, and if she didn't, I'd probably be dead. She opened up to her front door and I'm on the floor. She couldn't even open the door.

I'm dead in the kitchen, you know. And yeah, I went to fuck. the hospital, you know, and scary, scary. Is that what finally took for you to get clean after that incident? No, not even close. So what was that?

That wasn't the first time I audited. I've ODED multiple times. So anyway, so let me push this a little bit first. So anyways, so we're doing good. I start using. I decide to do a robbery. I take a bunch of clonopins and do a bunch of dope.

Now, we have her father's vehicle. He gave it to us as a car because we were doing good. and it's registered, sorry, it's registered in Revere Mass. Okay, I'm in Taun, which is an hour away. So in my head, I'm thinking if they do run the play for whatever reason, they're not going to get to my house yet because they're going to get a Revere address.

So I do a robbery, the family dollar. So I decided to rob the family dollar that my girlfriend worked at, right? I just can't get away from like the stupidity. You love your robberies. Right? So I go in the store and I got the knife. I got this mask over my face and I run out to the girl in the register. She starts screaming and I'm like, open the safe, right?

Of course, my girl didn't tell me this. It's on a time thing. So they put in the code and you have to wait 10 minutes before it'll open. Right. So she starts screaming. She tries to run. So I grab her hand and I got the knife. But I don't want to hurt anybody.

I'm not that type of person. Like I'm not a unless I have to, I don't want to hurt nobody, you know, unless I'm defending. So I grab her hand. but I got the knife over here. Well, I grabbed it like this, and I got my hand on. And her screaming, I guess there was a guy in the store. This guy, he looked like the Incredible Hulk. He was so big.

He was running down the aisle, knocking down displays. That's how big this guy was. And in my head, this is how sick I was. I was thinking in my head, I'm going to stab him, right? And then I'm going to have to kill this girl, right? Like, this is how sick you think this flashes in your head. And when I decide to run, I stay. dab the counter and it breaks the knife.

So now I got a handle in my hand with no knife and I run, right? I run out the store. I told my girl to park the con just stay right where I put it. She parked it facing a brick wall. So this guy's chasing me. He pulls out. She pulls out almost hits him. The license plate almost hit him in the forehead.

Like he couldn't have gotten any closer to our plate. She drives away. We throw all the shit out, the window. We go to our house. I drive by. I don't see anybody. The car's been watching me for weeks. I've been running around this neighborhood getting high, fucked up for weeks.

They know my car. I pull in front of my house, four cruisers rip up. They pull, I tell her, I was like, don't say nothing. I was like, don't say nothing. You didn't know nothing. Just keep your mouth shut. I'll take care of it, you know. And we go to the police station.

And, yeah, she's crying. She's in her pajamas because she thought we were going to be getting high. We weren't getting caught. Why would she get dressed, right? So, or in the police station, she's crying And the cop's like, look at what you did to her You did that And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about

That's fucking, that was just that fucking Went to CBS, whatever And he's like, come on, dude He's like, we know you did it He's like, you're really going to let her take the fall You're going to take her down with you? So I confessed. I broke down and told them everything.

I said, turn the camera on. But the cop kept his word. He said, he goes, listen, he goes, if you do the right thing, he goes, we'll do the right thing. He goes, we'll drop all the charges to accessory after. She said, she'll get probation. She goes, nothing will happen to her. She'll go home tonight. I was like, all right.

So I just told them everything. My kids hate me for it, but I told them everything. I probably would have did it with a guy. If I could, if me and you got caught, if I could have took the rap or you could have one of us, I would have did the same thing, you know? But yeah, so I took the hit. I knew. I told her before we did it.

I said, if I get caught, I'm getting five years. just so you know. She's like, no, you're not going to get five years. I'm like, yeah, that's like minimum, I think. You know? And I got caught. Went to fucking Dartmouth. And they gave you five years for that.

Yeah, well, so we go to court. We go to court, you know, and my, you know, I'm in fucking Ash Street, fucking jail. We're a fucking prison in County Jail in Massachusetts State. Oldest one, it's terrible. Like the old Alcatraz type shit. Like, bar. brick walls, it's terrible. So, yeah, we go to trial, and, you know, we go to court or whatever.

And now I call my lawyer, like, two months in. I said, so what's, like, what's up? They're making me any offers. He goes, yeah, they offered you a two to four. I was like, oh, sold. Call him back up. I'll take that right now. Let's get this party started.

Like, I'm good. I'll take that. I already got six months in, you know what I mean? I'll be out of here in fucking a year. I call my kids. I tell my daughter, I'm going to be home, 18 months max. you know, I'm, whoa, this is great. So I go to court, like, a couple weeks later.

And now I think I'm pleading out today. Like, I'm, you know. I go in there, my lawyer's behind the glass. He comes in and he says to me, he goes, yeah, so he's like, they're offering you four to five. No, oh, no, no, no. He said, they're offering you a five to seven. That's what he said. I was like, a fucking five to seven?

I was like, you just told me they offered me two to four. He's like, oh, he goes, no, that was another. the client, I'm, dude, I smashed my head in the car. I said, I'm going to be honest you're lucky there's glass here. I was like, because I just told my family that I'm coming home in 18 months. And he's like, oh, I just tell him it's my fault. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's going to make everything better. You know what I mean? Like, they don't have any concept. They think it's just numbers. It's like, no, it's, I got to do that time, you know. So I ended up, we went in with a plea agreement. Oh, no, I, I agree to pawn plea.

meaning like, you know, like, we agree that I'm guilty, but he wants five to seven. I want three and a, we asked for the two to four. And the judge is like, listen, I'm not giving you two to four. But I fucking sure is how I ain't giving him a five to seven. He goes, I'll give you three. He's like three and a half to five. So I ended up doing three and a half,

a little more than three and a half years in state prison. Wow. Yeah. But you came and prepared this time because of your first bid. Right. So I knew. And while I was in county, I just happened to have my bunky was a state. prison inmate and before he had just got out and he just got locked up again.

Yeah, surprise. But he told me what to expect. So I knew to ask about, you know, like, you know, court fees and all that stuff because I got no money. So if you go into going court fees, they take that out of your canteen right off the rip. So if my daughter's, my 17-year-old daughter sending me money, they're going to take that. So we got it to, you know, I'll pay when I get out of prison, you know. So, yeah, I ended up getting there.

went to a wallpole in Massachusetts. And, yeah, classification. A lot of fun there. But yeah, and that's where, I mean, that's where it started. And even that didn't, like, I lost my wife when I was in prison. Like, my kid's mother, that's one of the deaths I lost my wife while I was in prison. Oh, she passed away? She OD while I was in prison.

Oh, so she ended up getting on the drugs at some point? Yeah, we both, yeah, we both got hooked on drugs, both. and when I was in prison, you know. Yeah, she died when I was in prison. Yeah, it was the worst experience ever. Because you can't tell anybody because they lock you up and put you in a fucking turtle suit in the fucking Johnny and watch you for death, you know, the suicide watch for them.

You lose all your classification. It fucks you. If you say you're struggling with your mental health. Right, because I see, you know, they didn't know who she was to me because we weren't married. So they come in and they're like, hey, your buddy Mike called the caseworker. He's like, yeah.

He goes, yeah, he said a friend of yours, Cindy passed away. I was like, yeah. I was like, okay, and I just walked away. And now I'm starting to break down because we were together forever. Since we were teenage kids, we were together. And yeah, and then he calls me back to tell me something else. And now I'm a mess. And I'm trying to clear up before I get up to him because I don't want to get pulled out of here.

You know, I'm already getting ready to go home and, like, I mean, get a move to a minimum security prison. Like, I don't want to get this, you know, fuck this moves up. But yeah, so, I mean, I lost her when I was away. And I did three and a half years. And it was long. Three and a half years is a long time. When you ain't, you know what I mean? When you're in fucking...

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You win? Must be 21 to enter. Prison. How did that second sentence compared to the first one? Well, it was scary because I was in the, I was in the, because it's prison. You know what I mean? You hear the stories, you know, you got your friends that have been there, you know. And actually, most of my friends, friends have never been actually to prison.

They've been to county, but not prison, prison, you know, so they don't really know. But, you know, you think you're going to go in there and some dudes are going to be like, yeah, you run with us now, you know? You know, you're scared to chow hall? Like, where do you sit? Like, what do I do? You know what I mean? You don't want to sit in the wrong chair, you know, you don't want to go into the chow

the first day in the child. That was the scariest thing, and the whole thing was the chow hall. Imagine that, like, that, you know, I wasn't worried about someone fighting or not. I wasn't worried about going in the chow hall. sitting in the wrong table. But I had known Charleston, I know it's only a square mile, but we have our own table in state prison. And I was like, hey, where's the Charleston table?

You know what you mean? Obviously, other people sit there because there's like, I don't know, 12 or 16 seats at the table and there's only like three of us. So, you know, there'll be Somerville kids, every kid, whatever, whoever's, you know, white guys that sit at the table. So I end up going there. And this kid from Kentucky was sitting there or Kansas. I forget.

And he's like, yeah, he's like, this is the Charleston. He's like, but I don't think there's any seats. You know, I'm like, what do you talk? I'm like, you're from Kansas, dude. Like, that's my seat. Like, I'm from Charleston. You know what I mean? Like, that's the mentality.

Like, you get right into that, like, who the fuck do you think? Like, I'm ready to fight this kid over a fucking chair, you know? It means nothing, you know? But, yeah. So that was the scariest part because I didn't want to sit in the wrong chair, you know, and get fucking, my head split open. Some dude's been sitting there 30 years. you know what I mean?

Yeah, soon as you get back in that environment, your mind switches to like inmate mode and convict mode and whatnot. Yeah. So, I mean, I just kept my head down and, you know, did my time. Did your mentality change that second sentence? Um, I mean, I did everything I did everything I could to learn, like to, like I did the violence reduction

because most of my record is violence. I mean, a lot of drugs, but I have a bad tempo. and I just, you know, I haven't in years, thank God now. My daughter yells at me all the time. She's like, are you going to let him? Like, she gets mad. Like, I'm like, just forget about it. It's not that serious, you know?

She doesn't, because I've lived in the life of, like, how serious it can be, you know what I mean? And, like, someone cutting me off with a cart in a store or, you know, making a, you know, making an off-side comment to me is not serious enough for me to come out of character and get crazy again like I used to. mean? That's very powerful. Not everything needs a response and a reaction. You don't always need the last word. Let it be. I think letting it be has more power than anything if you don't let it get to you. And you also never know what someone else is going through that day. Yeah. Or carrying. Yeah, that didn't, yeah, that person that didn't hold the door open for you or, you know, slammed a car or anything. You don't, you know, so we just got to be a little bit more kinder and conscious of that. Yeah, no, absolutely.

So, I mean, I came out, you know, but I still didn't learn. I mean, I was still messing around. Like, I still had, so when I got sentenced, I had two cents. I had a probation, obviously, that run concurrent, like, I mean, consecutive. So I had the sentence I did the time for. And then once I get out, the probation for the second charge, I think it was some stupid, charge. I had like carried five years. So they had me on probation for another three years and hold, you know, holding five years over my head after I got out. But I still got fucked up.

I still went out and got high and kept going and kept going and just kept pushing, you know. Odeed once, twice, you know, and it just kept getting worse. Like it just didn't get, it just didn't get better. I don't know why, obviously, right? Why would I think it would get better? But yeah, so I just kept using, getting fucked up. And the turning moment was in, I lost my daughter. She OD'd in 2018. Yeah, that's the worst.

And then I do with me two days after. So, you know. I'm sorry for your loss, man. Thank you. Yeah, so after my kids lose their sister, you know, I go, and get high and OD in the bathroom. Two days after we're trying to figure

out where we're going to bury our daughter. Well, my daughter, you know, their sister, you know. And I'm in the bathroom on the floor dead. You know what I mean? It's like the worst. And I just got up when I, you know, my neighbor, you know, Vic, she saved my life. She, you know, give me CPR, woke me up and all I could think about is my daughter Kelsey and what I just did, you know, I just get up and ran.

I just get up. Ambulous driver, like, didn't even get there yet. She woke me up and I get up and I just took off. You know, and I ran. And, yeah, that was the worst, you know, because not only losing her, but then putting them through that, you know what I mean, possibly losing me. The last person that they got left, it's like, yeah,

that was the last time that I used was on that day. Was that the oldest sister that passed? There was the youngest sister. Oh, that was the youngest. Yeah, she was a month. before her 21st birthday. She couldn't wait, yeah. And my oldest daughter found her

and hear her scream is the worst feeling ever, you know? But yeah. Do your other kids put any blame on you towards it? No, I'm sure, I'm sure there's blame to go around, you know what I mean? I'm definitely, you know what I mean?

Like I said, that father figure, you know what I mean? If I had been there to teach her, you know, and not show her, you know what I mean? Because I always say that, like, they learn from what they see, you know what I'm saying? Like, you've got a kid that grew up in the projects, and that's all they know.

They think of project apartments where it's at. But when you've got a kid that grew up in a house, and if parents are together and they worked all the time, like, their mentality is I'm going to buy a house and get a family. Like, that's just the mentality, you know? So when you show them that, you know, the only life that they knew was what, you know, the fucked up life that I had shown them,

Like, it's hard to prosper from that. You know what I mean? How do you make up for all those years you lost being a father? Well. Now that you're sober and clean and trying to work hard to rebuild your life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They come for us no matter what. You know what I mean?

I give my daughter. Kelsey, you know, they say I spoil them, but, you know, she asks me for anything. I'll do anything I possibly can to get whatever she needs. It doesn't. She's going to be getting married. She's got a husband. No, they're not married.

but, you know, he takes very good care of her, you know, and, I mean, she doesn't need me to take care of her, but she knows that I'm there, and all my kids know that I'm there, you know, that if they need me, I'll be there. You know what I mean? Now they can count on that, you know? And, I mean, my youngest, like, she really doesn't remember any of that.

She don't remember, like, she didn't know me, like, using drugs and all that stuff. My grandsons don't know that. I have two grandsons, and they don't know that. So if I can keep that going, you know, that's the life I want them to know, you know? What advice would you give to someone that is in the position you used to be in? I just ask for help.

It's the hottest thing in the world to do a bite. So, I mean, A-A and N-A-A-A-A on a huge part of my story as far as, you know, now. But it's one of the, you know, places I felt most comfortable, you know what I mean? and reach out and get help because it's there. You know what I mean? You got it here. I mean, you're helping people. Everybody, I mean, the help is out there if you want it.

I just never wanted it. You know what I mean? I didn't, I thought I did, and I meant it when I said it, but I never really did the work to get to where I wanted to be. You know what I mean? Yeah. And now it's like, now that's just the main thing. And if anything I do or anywhere I go,

it's, do they need anything for? First. Am I doing anything with them first? Like if I want to do something, I have to check with her first because she might need me to babysit. She might need me to bring her somewhere or something because that's my responsibility now. Because I've left it up to her for so long. Then now I need her to understand that I'm here that she can take her foot off their gas. You know what I mean? And I can take over a little bit.

You know what I mean? And she's with you here today? Well, that's the youngest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my youngest. But my oldest is the one that she just helped. the family together. Yeah.

And I'm super grateful for that. Yeah. And my brother, too, my brother Henry, he's, he has, he actually has a production company to Henry Peegland Productions. What does he do? He does, um, it's a little off subject, but, uh, he actually does a production company. What he does is, um, he, um, puts on, um, shows at, um, local bars, um, like, um, drag queen

shows. Oh, that's fun. So, yeah. So, yeah, so that's a good time to it. They're out of their minds. Yeah. But it's a good time. And he does very well at it.

Those are like brunch shows, right? Like during the day and stuff? There you go. Yeah. Drag Queen. Connecticut. Yeah. He's, honestly, I'm going to be honest with you.

He was at the, he started this years ago. And he's, he's at the, he's one of the biggest shows in Boston. That's so cool. Everybody knows about him. Did you tell him you're coming on the podcast today? I did. I said I would bring him up. I said I would bring him up.

Awesome. Yeah. Because he's great. Well, what's the name of his company? Henry Paycran Broad. Henry Payquin Productions. He has a website. It's out.

Yeah. Instagram. Yeah, he's on Instagram, you're fine. You type in that name, he's there. Cool. Yeah, he's great. He's one of the, yeah, he's been there for me too. You know, we had a rocky past, but now we go on vacations together.

He's one of my best friends. That's awesome. And he's my younger brother, and I look up to him every day, man. He's just a great man. Do you have a business now, or are you working towards that? No, I just work. I'm just trying to work and just trying to, my plan is I just want to die. If I can just die with, you know, a place for my kids to call home,

I just want a house up in New Hampshire You know in the country a little bit of land That all my kids have access to for the rest of their life Because I want them to be able to go out and do whatever they want And not worry about having nowhere to go I mean because you always worried like if I go You know New York and try something like we might not have no way to come home to I just want them to be able to go out and do whatever they want to do

And then have a safe place to come home you know Absolutely Yeah Well Eric thank you so much for trusting me to share your story today with. Thank you. And thanks for making the trip out here. And this is a great episode. And, you know, I'm sorry for your loss and tragedy you've experienced, but, you know, hopefully it's a powerful lesson to those that are listening and watching and a message of hope as well, too. Thank you. And sometimes people need to hear those deep, bad, tragic moments because that can

inspire them to change their life, too. Yeah. I just wanted to say, one of the way. thing, you always talk about those the Ripper glasses. The Chomo glasses? Yeah. I get a stir. So when I had, when I first got locked up, I had long hair because I couldn't, because of the stitches. Oh, man. And I had those big square glasses.

They thought you were a tromo? My buddy, I knew for years, John John. He comes into segregation. He sees me in the window and he's like, gives me a dirty look. It's like, come out of the cell. I say to him and say, hey, what's up? I'm like, what's the dirty? He goes, oh, you look like a fucking child molester. I was like, hey.

It's like those glasses, you can't, no matter what, man. Even those, if you walked into a prison now, they're going to probably put you as a chomo. And you got a little bald right up here at the forehead. They're putting you as a chomo in a scruffy beard, man. Yeah, that's what I had. I had the whole beard. My hair was lying. It was crazy.

Yeah, you're a chomo, man. They got you dead to rights right there. That's awesome. Everyone loves the chomo stories, man. There's something about it, you know, whatever it is. It just, they always do so well. It's incredible. Who would have thought? But yeah, man, thanks again and safe travels back.

And hopefully your assistant out there was happy with the episode. We'll get our opinion on it. Perfect. Thank you so much.