Locked In with Ian Bick - Cop Goes to Jail Undercover on 60 Days In | Alan Oliver

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

Alan Oliver was a police officer who did something most cops will never experience — he went undercover and spent two months inside jail on the hit TV show 60 Days In. In this interview, Alan shares what it was really like living among inmates, the danger he faced every day, and how going undercover changed the way he sees law enforcement. #60DaysIn #LockedInPodcast #CopInJail #PrisonStories #TrueCrimePodcast #UndercoverCop #LifeInJail #AlanOliver Thank you to BLUCHEW & EXPRESSVPN for sponsoring this episode: BlueChew: Visit https://bluechew.com/ and use promo code LOCKEDIN at checkout to get your first month of BlueChew FREE & pay five bucks for shipping. Express VPN: Secure your online data TODAY by visiting https://www.expressvpn.com/lockedin to find out how you can get up to four extra months. Connect with Alan Oliver: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@actalan2?_t=ZP-8zrsQXmJq6I&_r=1 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alan_austin_oliver?igsh=MTBxa3h5azZ1ZWNyag== Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Use code LOCKEDIN for 20% OFF Wooooo Energy Buy Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00 Is 60 Days In Real or Scripted? Behind-the-Scenes Secrets01:01 Alan Oliver’s Upbringing: Family, Childhood & Early Life02:58 Becoming a Cop: Dreams of Policing & Childhood Aspirations04:07 School Years: Bullying, Theater & Learning to Fit In09:54 From High School Graduation to Police Academy Training12:18 The Truth About Being a Cop: What They Don’t Show You19:49 Small-Town Policing: Corruption, Politics & Broken Systems23:34 Rethinking Policing: What Needs to Change in Law Enforcement28:38 Challenges of Being a Cop: The Good, Bad & Dangerous33:01 Getting Cast for 60 Days In: How Alan Ended Up on the Show37:36 Walking Into Jail as an Undercover Inmate for the First Time41:51 Social Media’s Impact: How Public Opinion Shapes Policing47:21 60 Days In Safety Concerns: Cameras, Risks & Production Secrets53:15 COs, Inmates & Learning Jail Rules to Stay Safe01:00:25 Jail Life: Food, Commissary & Daily Routine Behind Bars01:06:06 The Biggest Surprises of Living in Jail for 60 Days01:11:40 The Mental Toll: Why Alan Left Law Enforcement After the Show01:18:11 Life-Changing Takeaways & New Perspective on Policing01:24:15 Life After Policing: What Alan’s Doing Now01:30:34 How TV Shows Like 60 Days In Could Change Policing01:33:12 Final Thoughts: Lessons Learned from Jail & Policing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The inmates, guards have no clue who we are. So you have a legitimate chance of dying in jail to film a TV show. Do you think they would let you get hurt on the show? There were certain times where you felt very mistreated. What do you think was the biggest eye-opener for you doing this experience? Alan Oliver was a police officer who did the unthinkable. He went undercover as an inmate on the hill. hit TV show 60 days in. For two months, he lived among real inmates, faced gang politics, saw

drugs and violence up close, and risk being exposed every single day. In this episode, Alan shares the most dangerous moments he faced what jail is really like when you're a cop on the inside and how the experience changed him forever. Alan, welcome to locked in man. Thanks so much for coming from Dallas to be in little old Richfield, Connecticut today. Yeah, no, thanks for having me, brother. Yeah, you said you were taking in the scenery here. Again, yeah, if I could choose... So I travel for work and I went to Portland and I thought that place was beautiful.

And I come down here and do it and I'm just like, what are these houses, man? Like being a movie or something. But yeah, this is... You'll see this in Dallas. It's like one of those Hallmark movies. That's what it is. Like, I think what happened was

movie studios came down here and they just built a set of a city and they're like, you know what? Y'all just move here. Like, we don't need it anymore. Everybody just move in because it's like movie perfect. And it's the perfect weather, too. Exactly.

The fall time, you know, almost October, a couple weeks out from October. Yeah. Leaves are turning and stuff. The winter's pretty, too, when it's like a little bit of snow, not too much snow. We do get a lot of snow, though, unfortunately. This would be the place to live in. Did you grow up in Dallas? East Texas, yeah.

It's more of like an hour and a half, two hours south of Dallas. but yeah. What was your upbringing like? It was very family-oriented upbringing. My dad is always like he doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, never done drugs. So very like strict, always rules. Don't break them. Like so good family like upbringing. Very involved. So yeah, both parents, my parents divorced when I was a kiddo. So I lived with my dad and stepmom since I was like one years old. So, but yeah, it was good. Good upbringing.

Was there any relationship with your mom? Yeah, yeah. We still still have. She lives about an hour and a half from me. And we still talk almost daily. But it's just I don't get to see her as much just because of where she lives versus where I live. But, yeah, I'm still involved both situations. What was your dad's line at work?

Well, he was an insurance. Like, he sold insurance for, man, he still semi-does. He's, like, retired now, but I'd say for almost 30 years. But before that, he was in, like, route sales. Was anyone in your family into law enforcement at all? No, I was the first one. Really? Yeah.

Was that, like, a childhood dream? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think as a kid, you're like, man, what would be like to be a cop? And then when you finally, I turned 21. I was able to go to the academy and I did that. Self-sponsored myself. Back then, I don't know if you can still do it,

but this was, again, I'm 39. So, Jesus, how long ago that was, you could self-sponsor yourself and you could pay the tuition to go through the academy and then just go try to find a job. Nowadays, it's more of like you go get hired on at a police department and they'll put you through the academy and you get paid while you're doing the academy. I wouldn't get paid. I was doing schooling just and then just trying to pay my bills while I was doing school at the same time.

So, yeah. Do you remember when that first dream popped in your mind to become a cop? No, because believe it or not, my first dream when I was a kid was, dude, I can't wait to be a garbage man. I've never heard this before. Like, I was so stoked to ride on the back of a, like a garbage truck. the guys they'll stand in the back and you'll see them drive down the road and they're like standing on the back of the garbage truck waiting for their next stop and I always thought that was the coolest thing as a kid's like I can't wait to freaking do that and then just kind of one of those things where you're

like man I think being a cop would be cool and it wasn't for me to be like oh I can't wait to have a gun and a badge it was like I think that would be like an admiral profession um you're just trying to uh for me I just want to be that guy to help people like it wasn't of like look at me I'm a cop it was more of like I think I can make this a career and I can help people and I think I'd be great at it and that's just kind of I don't remember the first time I was like let's be a cop were you the popular kid or kind of the one that was the outcast bullied okay so I lived with my mom until I was probably I was six or seven she was single parent at the time And so we lived in the Dallas area, and it was just her and I.

And so there really wasn't a lot of structure. There really wasn't a lot of, I could pretty much do whatever I wanted. I was going down a bad path at six and seven. Like I remember doing things at that age where, dude, that's a recipe for like you're going to be in prison. And so luckily, my mom decided to go to nursing school. And when she did that, she asked my dad, hey, can Allen live with you? because I'm going to go to school, and I just, I don't know if I can do both at the same time. And she tells me on time, I regret doing that, but I tell her that's the best thing for me because I was going down a path that it probably wouldn't have worked that well for me.

So for her to do that and live with my dad gave me a lot of structure. You know, when you have a dad in the house and you have like, if you mess up, you know, there's consequences to pay. So when I moved, I started in the third grade and where I went to school. And I was the new kid in school. And it just started bad. Like when you have a school that's in a small town, all the kids go from kindergarten all the way through. And when the new kid comes in in third grade and all these kids that have been going to school together for the past few years, don't know who this kid is. And then it's just, you know, I, I, I, uh, I wasn't welcomed in in the very beginning.

Uh, so no, I was not the popular kid. What do you think your worst memory from school was? Oh, dude, I still vividly remember third grade was the worst because that's when everything started. Uh, just I remember one specifically, we had a, um, um, show and tell day in the third grade. And I decided I want to bring my soccer trophy to show everybody my soccer trophy that I got. And we had like one first place or something on our soccer team for the city. I was so excited to bring it. So I remember showing my trophy and everybody just started laughing.

Like, that's what you brought. And it just started from there. And then those same people that were in the little clique, it just lasted until we got to high school. Third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade. Every year was like the same shit, different day. You just have to wake up and be like, what am I going to do today? Like, who's going to come at me today? And then in high school, finally, everybody grew up and nobody really messed with me.

And I think, again, I brought a lot of it on myself. I was super immature kid. Didn't really know how to interact with people. I was very socially awkward. I was very outgoing. I loved to do a theater and stuff like that. I think my theater crew, like when I got to high school and I kind of had my own family to kind of hang out with, that was more of my vibe. But before you were able to do the things that you were willing to do,

you kind of had to go with the herd like second period, third period. And dude, I was just an open, I was fair game, man. I was open target. I did theater too. Yeah, do I love it. Yeah, all four years. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah.

It's, uh, I love any kind of like acting or whatever the case is. Yeah. I just recently hard launched my girlfriend on social media. Want to know how I finally got a girlfriend. I always enter the room meat missile first. Blue Chew isn't just a tablet. It's a cheat code for your crotch. stronger, harder, longer lasting, like someone gave your downstairs a pep talk and a gym membership.

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As always, get your first month of blue chew free. Just use promo code locked in at checkout and pay for you. five bucks for shipping. That's it. Join Bluechoo's mission to upgrade humanity one thrust at a time. Head to Bluchu.com for details and safety info. And big thanks to Bluchu for sponsoring the podcast. Now, I got to go re-up on some Blue Chew. Honestly, you have more of the look of a theater guy than a cop. I would never peg you for a cop. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the opening clip of 60 Days in when they show me in uniform and I'm talking to people. I'm like, okay, I can see.

He's kind of a cop guy. But now it's just like I don't even, I still got friends that's in law enforcement. But it's definitely when I've had time to grow up and reflect and think about law enforcement and kind of how everything went. And I just glad that I'm, you know, out of that sector now. Yeah, I saw your picture of you as an inmate. and I think your head was more shaved, like your hair was cut. Yeah, yeah.

You looked way more like an inmate. I wanted to, specifically, I was like, man, how can I, like, blend in? I've got all my teeth. They're white. Like, I stand out, like a sore thumb. Like, what can I do? The only thing I could think of at the time was to have, like, this little chin strap, like, you know, beard that I had.

And then, like, my hair cut where it wasn't, like, a cop cut. It was just more of like a fade. And I was like, well, I mean, I look somewhat like an inmate. I just now got to act like one. Now, some people will say that you became a cop in general because your ability to do it Oh, yeah. I read those comments all the time. Not even remotely true because I wasn't, I didn't get into being a cop to pull people over or to arrest people.

That wasn't why I became a cop. I became a cop just, again, like we talked about, I wanted to help people. Like I felt like, and my mind worked like that. I specifically remember there was this one case that I worked at the police department that I worked for. It was a night we had so many car burglaries. And at one night there was probably 13 cars that had been hit within the same area. And it was just one after the other. People would call one after the other.

And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, what is happening? So I had to stop and I thought. And I'm like, all right, if I was a criminal, where would I go now? next. Like, what's my next move? And believe or not, the next house we got a call on, I was like, you know what? Right over there in this, it was like a house of the garage, a bunch of a tree line with some bushes and kind of make your way through there. And I was like, if I was a criminal trying to, I would go right over there. Sure enough, I'd go through this. And this dude's like

running away with the sack full of shit from all these cars. And so I get on, I'm like, stop, stop. I get on the radio and the crew, you can, you can hear them on the radio. I got, I didn't even know where the street I was on. I was like, he's. He's. over here. He's behind the bushes. They're like, what bushes? I'm like, he's over here. And I was so, like, I caught the guy because he had just like 14 different cars. Anyway, so I felt like I had to mind for it. Like, I could, my intuition, just stuff about your personality, you know about yourself. You'd be like, you know what? I think I have what it takes to do the job. Now, albeit when I became a cop, Again, I was still, I think, mentally immature in the fact that if I were to do the position now as a police officer, I would be I would be much more successful than I was.

And not that I was unsuccessful back then. I just think to be a police officer, especially nowadays, your mental toughness has to be there, dude. It's not the same now as it was, you know, 2008 when I went to the academy. me. It's a different ballgame. Yeah, I was interviewing a former cop the other day and he said he's glad he went in at 27 to become an officer rather than 21 because it was such a big difference in his mental capacity to do the job at 27 versus 21. And that's, that is, that is a thousand percent correct. I went in immediately as soon as you could. Like, I'm going to do the academy. I want to be a police officer. But mentally it, you need to have, because there's so much you have to know. Like, if you've ever seen a penal code or a traffic, the traffic laws, the penal codes, the

whatever, it's, I mean, it's, you know, thicker than the Bible dude. Like, you've got to know so much. And just being having to do the job and do it within the moment of something happening, dude, it takes a lot mentally. So I know a lot of people criticize police officers for acting in the moment or can you believe they did that? But when you stop, and think about it. It's like there is so much going on that when you are trying to apprehend someone, whatever the case is, you've got to, you've got to, A, be able to know in your mind at that same moment what law this person has violated. You have to pick out out of the thousands of laws there are. You've got to immediately pick out which law that he violated. And then you have to have the

wherewithal to know, all right, if this goes bad, what's my next step? Am I? pulling a taser? Are we using lethal? Like, what do we doing? So there's a lot that goes on in the moment that I know people hear that all the time. They're like, well, don't be a cop thing if you can't handle it. But there's a lot that goes on. So it's tough. Yeah, you know, they say the average person makes what hundreds or thousands of decisions a day. Imagine being a cop, just what you describe, those decision making. And then on top of like when you're pulling someone over and the keyboard and the multitasking and everything. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's. It's not an easy job.

You know, my friends, close friends, family, they all did ride-alongs with me when I was a cop. And so before they knew anything about law enforcement, they had a general idea in their mind of what they saw on TV. But then when they actually rode with me for an entire shift and the calls you get, the people that you stop, the people you talk to, they're like, oh, shit, I didn't even realize you had to do A, B, or C. like all I see is this and this on TV, but now when I'm riding with you, I see a whole, a different side of things, which translates into 60 days in is like, I want to see a different side of,

from a cop to an inmate perspective. So it's very interesting. What do you do after high school? Did you go to college or that three-year difference between joining the academy and high school? Right out of high school, dude, I hated school so much. Like, I wanted to do the bare minimum to be done with it.

it. So I went to college for like a semester. Hated it. And so I just decided to get a job. Like right out of college, I did, what was my first job? Oh, I had a, I was in the work program in high school. So I left at like 11, 12 p.m. every day anyway. And during my senior year to go to to work, just because, again, I wanted to do the bare minimum to not be at school. So I've been working since I was 15 years old. But right out of, I got my first real job. I got my first real job. at Verizon Wireless, I remember. And back then, this was 2007, probably. It was part-time job.

I was making $12 an hour plus commission. In 2007, dude, $12 an hour plus commission. I was 18. And I was pulling like $40K a year working 25 hours a week. And again, 2007 making $40,000 being an 18-year-old. Dude, I thought I was living in high life. So I was like, man, I got out of high school, dude. I started spending all my money because I thought, for whatever reason, 40K was a lot, which I guess it was for an 18-year-old.

But that was what I did. Worked at Verizon and then 21 hit. And then I did the police academy. How did your dad feel about you becoming a cop? Oh, they were all proud because, again, nobody had ever done it before. And so super proud. Obviously concerned. You know, you have your concerned parents like, well, once something happens to you, you know, is what it is.

If it happens, it happens. But yeah, he was super proud. it was. How long was the academy? Two or three months, eight or twelve weeks, one or two. It's always interesting asking that because it's so different. I had one officer here, say, six months. One said it was almost a year. And years was a lot shorter. Yeah, and I could, again, this was 17 years ago. So I want to say it's either two or three months. It might be four. It wasn't long, though. Was becoming a cop what you expected it to be? No, it wasn't. I love certain aspects of it. What I didn't like was the politics and being a police officer. I worked for small town agencies. You know, small town, I mean probably, you know, 10,000 people maybe, maybe less than that, maybe 5,000 people. So small town agencies where politics play a big part, meaning the mayor, the city council.

They have a lot of influence on what happens within the police department. So the chief answers to the mayor. And when the mayor feels like we're doing too much of something or not enough of something or, you know, next time you pull him over, maybe get him a warning next time. Or those stupid politics that, hey, if you ever stop a council member, just do, just make sure you get him a warning. You know, stuff like that. That's the stuff that really got to me quick because that stuff happens. And small town politics, being a cop, it didn't sit well with me because I don't like playing those games. And so it's good and bad.

So, no, that's what I didn't expect to happen. Do you think you realized how unfair the system was before you ever even stepped foot in an environment like 60 days in? I got, and I tell the story to some of my friends. And I'll never forget it. I was working on patrol and I stopped a guy. for some traffic violation. I remember what it was. And I got to talking to him and I found out he was in the military. He was on leave. So he's active duty, but he was on leave. So he's like, you know, PTO or something for the military. And I pull him over and he had a joint in the car. And again,

this was a long time ago. Back then, our department policy was you have any type of marijuana in the car. Hook him up. got to go um like the tic-tock lock him up you know that's what it was um and so he had a joint i arrested him and i have to transport him to town over because we didn't have any holding cells i had to take him to the sheriff's office and the whole drive i'm just like what i just fucking do man like this dude's serving our country And I just locked him up over a joint. Like, it's not like he had pounds of weed in his car.

It's not like he's, you know, dealing drugs or carrying on pills everywhere. This dude had a joint. And I remember specifically asking him, I was like, dude, what is this? He's like, dude, I'm just, I'm on leave for military. I'm just trying to unwind. And then I, back then, I didn't really understand kind of what that meant. I'd never smoked weed, so I don't, what do you mean unwind? Like, you know, they understand.

Obviously, I do now. Not smoke weed, but understand what that means. And so I locked this guy up, we're driving. I'm like, fuck, what I do? Did I just end this guy's military career over a joint? And that's when I first realized, like, dude, this might not be for me. Like, I don't, I can't, I can't just sit back and, this guy that's serving our country

I arrest him for weed I don't know what the rules on the military is like if that charge is gonna if he's out of the military if he's gonna be like well I don't know the word for it how you get kicked out of the military for bad behavior

whatever they're not discharge yeah discharge yeah honorably versus dishonorably discharged yeah I didn't know if that was going to happen to the guy and I'm like what did I just do to this guy I could have like ruined his life over a joint. And I just, I couldn't, that's when it first started being like, I don't know if this is it, man. Like, you're either, if you're a cop, you need to be 100% in or that's not the job for you.

Because being a cop is not a job that you can go into and start second guessing yourself. Because you're going to get yourself in a lot of trouble if you start second guessing yourself. And for me, I started second guessing my career choice because I also remember I stopped a guy, he was not a citizen and didn't have a license. I pulled him over. He gave me his license. It turned out to be a fake license. And I got to talk into him, super nice guy. And I was like, what is this? Why do you have this? Because I mean, that's the only way I can get work in the country. And I said, well, where are you coming from? I just had my kids' birthday party at Chuck Cheese. And I'll never forget this. I'm like, I'm like, what?

what am I doing? Like this guy is just trying to work, pay his bills. He's not harming anybody. He's not doing anything wrong. Obviously he's doing it. He got a fake license, but he's just trying to work and pay his bills. He just took his kid to Chuck E. Cheese. He's an involved parent. And I just arrested this guy and took him away from his kids because you had to be. You had to be a guy. He's not. He took him away from his kids. because you had to call back then you called ICE for violations and you held him in our holding cell and you called and this again this was a long time ago so that was the policy and I'm like I just fucking arrested this guy he's an involved dad took his kid to Chucky Cheese and what if you never see this kid again because I arrested him because he got a fake license he's just trying to work

And I was just like, dude, I can't fucking do this anymore. Like, it just, it got to me. What happened to the service member? Did you end up bringing him to the police station? I mean, I took him to jail. And again, I don't know what happened to him after that. But those two instances always stuck with me because in the moment I'm doing my job. But as a human, you're like, what the fuck, man?

Like, what did I do to this? That changed the course of his life? because of fucking joint. It's not like he's going around killing people. It's not like he's going hurting anybody. Same with the guy that was not a citizen. He's not harming anybody. He's literally just working to pay his bills,

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So you were super by the book? Yeah. Like, now, yeah, I could have, based on the charge, I could have just, a classy misdemeanor, I could have wrote him a citation and said, see you in court. Department policy was any amount of marijuana in the car, lock them up, off to jail. So I was just doing my job as what I was told to do by the agency that I worked for. I had agreed with it, no. but that's when my mind was like, I need to be in or out.

Like, I can't just be half and half. I need to do my job to the fullest or go find another path for me. Do you think there were some cops who worked with that didn't have that same mentality? I know there are. Yeah, like, as far as like my discretion and kind of like what I felt after?

Or do you, are you asking like, do you feel like, hey, they broke the law? jail time. Yeah, more like being, I guess it would be being unfair. Like, it sounds like you are fair and consistent across the board, whereas other people kind of blur that gray line and don't treat everyone the same way. There are bad apples. We all know that. Again, I'm still pro-law enforcement, and I still love, law enforcement is a necessity in the country, whether you like to believe it or not.

Without them, it would be complete chaos. but I do think there are bad apples. We all know that. But at the same time, I do think most police officers go into it. They want to do good and they want to help and they want to provide. And then there are some that it's, I don't know if they're self-conscious. And they say to themselves, look, here's how I feel, but here's what I got to do as a job. I'm sure there are people that felt the same way as I did. But I'm not. I'm not. I know for sure there's a cop out there that's like you have a joint time to go to jail that's the law here we go and doesn't think twice about it like it doesn't affect him doesn't lose sleep about it for example had a guy that um it was my first murder I'd ever seen and um I remember it like it was yesterday it was like I don't know three o'clock our shift into it's three a.m. shifts in at six a.m. We're at whatever eating breakfast like and um we get a call of shots fired at an apartment complex.

So we go in and we pull up and this dude is just laid out on the sidewalk, two bullets in his head, blood just, first time I've ever seen a dead body. And that doesn't affect me one bit. Not even, I wouldn't look. I could lay down next to him go to sleep. Wouldn't have a problem. But me arresting the guy in the military for the joint and me arresting the guy with a fake ID. That bothers me more than seeing a dead body on the ground. Just a big difference there.

I wouldn't lose sleep at all seeing a dead body, but hooking somebody up over a joint, I mean, I was almost 20 years ago, and I still think about it. Do you think that goes back to how your dad raised you? Like the idea of maybe fairness or the sternness he... I don't think it has anything to do with the way I was raised. I think that's just how it's programmed. Like, I still think the same way.

at 39, like, and not that this is a political show, but I have friends that think different than me politically, but it does not affect my view of them. I still talk to them, still hang out with them, still love them. They don't, we think differently, but it doesn't mean I don't care about them. It doesn't mean that I, I wish them harm. Like, we're still friends, like, actively, like in theater. The theater crew is very much, um, they lean, a certain way politically. And I might think differently, but, dude, I love every one of them, man. Like, they're my close friends. And I think that's the way I looked at being a police officer. Like, you might, you might break the law and you might make a bad decision. It doesn't mean I'm going to, like,

you know, if I see you on the streets walking, hey, hey, man, I just, I had to do my job. You know, nothing against you. I just had to do my job at the time. So I just think it's who I am as a person. How long were you on the force until, or how long were you on the force for when 60 days in came along? Total different apartments. Total about six years. And what happens? Like for the show? Yeah. How does that come about? So I had originally auditioned to be on Big Brother, and I went through the casting process of Big Brother, and obviously didn't make the cut.

So fast forward about six months later, one of the casting directors had left Big Brother and started working on 60 Days In, and he reached out to me. It's like, hey, would you be interested in something like this? So at the time, I didn't know anything about 60 Days In. So he told me what the show was, the premise of the show. And I thought to myself, I was like, you know what? Like I was already, like we talked about in that mind space of like, is this the right path for me? Like career-wise? And so I thought, why not see what I'm doing to people, like the military guy?

Like, what did I just put him through? And so I was like, that might actually help me make my decision on what I want to do. And so I, you know, went through the process and, you know, here we are now. Were you looking at Big Brother if you got into that as your exit plan from policing? I don't know. I don't know if I'd say exit. But, you know, again, I was already on the edge anyway. Like, is this something I want to do or not want to do? But Big Brother was definitely one of those where it's like, I could be successful with this because, again, you have to, I'm sure you. you've seen the show. Yeah, we actually used to watch it at the halfway house.

That's how I first started watching it. Oh, okay. When I got out of prison, that's all they watched all day. Yeah. All day long, Big Brother. I did it right after, I don't know if you don't know, but the season where his name was Derek, he was a police officer. He ended up winning Big Brother.

I auditioned to be the season right after it. And what the casting directors had told me was, we think you'd be a good fit. This would be fantastic. but you're very similar to Derek, and we don't want a Derek in back-to-back seasons. And so I think ultimately, that's probably why I didn't make it farther in the casting process than I did.

I didn't have a good, I don't think I had a good audition anyway, because it was like my first time. You go into this room, and they've got all these cameras set up along this wall, and you got all these people, like, watching you. And they're like, all right, we're going to ask you some questions. We want you to be like the biggest, brightest version of yourself.

And you've got all these cameras. And I just, I think I froze up. It wasn't a good audition. But either way, that's the reason I did it because I think my skill set would have worked well. How much time passed from the day they first reached out to you for 60 days into the day you actually got casted? Okay. Let's see if I can recount this correctly. I would say, dude, it was a long process several months.

Like, I would say at least three to four months before, like, first conversations to we are going to make our decisions. Because you got to remember, and I asked them, it was like, how many people are y'all, like, how are people are wanting to do this job applying to be? And now you're talking like thousands of applicants to do these positions and they've got to filter through all these people. And I think on my season, there was like 12 or 13 of us total. And so you had to like do multiple rounds of interviews with not only the producers of the show, but then the network execs have to sign off on you too. So you have to do interviews with literally everybody. And your story has to line up with, I guess, what they're trying to achieve as well on that particular season. So it takes a while to get through all the legal hurdles of signing contracts and paperwork.

And in case you die, you can't sue us, like, waive reliability, stuff like that. It's so interesting how traditional TV is casting versus, say, like, online social media TV. Because the Mr. Beast thing I was telling you about, we got cast in three weeks, a little less than three weeks, the whole process. Jeez. And there was like hundreds of people they were pooling for both sides, the cop and the criminal side. And I left with a 48-hour notice. Like, I was told on Thursday I'm casted when I was finally picked and I left Saturday morning. That's, but I guess was like a film crew and everything, too.

I guess it was. Yeah, everything was a real like production. They had it around the clock for 100, it was 2400 hours of footage. Yeah, 24 times 100 days. Crazy. Yeah. So was there a lot of like psychological questions they're asking you in the screening? Or was it more just who you are as a person?

He was who I was as a person, my story at the time, active police officer. I just had my daughter. She was like, had to have been three months old at the time. And so I think my story kind of, again, met what maybe they were trying to achieve with that particular season. Because at the time, there hadn't been an active police officer due the show yet. Oh, never. Season four. I was the first active police officer.

There was a prior season. I can't remember her name, maybe Tammy or something. She was a former police officer. But at the time, I was actively a full-time cop that was going to do the show. What did your wife think about it or a girlfriend, whoever? Yeah, I was married at the time to my first wife. We were both fucking terrified, dude. Like, to know that the guards don't know who you.

are like to people where's the camera at where am i where am i talking to right here to the y'all you haters out there who think 60 days in is scripted let me tell it's not scripted okay just i want to get that out there i say that because so many people are like oh it's so scripted that's show so fake it's not fake dude like the the correction officers don't have no idea who we are there's maybe two people in the entire uh jail system and the production crew obviously that know any idea who we are But anybody else, the inmates, the guards have no clue who we are. So you have a legitimate chance of dying in jail to film a TV show. It's not like some kind of magic wand that if someone's about to shank me that I can wave in the air and be like, time out, time out.

Like, we're on TV. Like, that's not how that works. Like, if they wanted to kill me, there's nothing that I could have done or the production crew could have done. to stop that from happening. At what point do you tell your boss at the police station that you're being considered for this role? It was before they made their final decision because they didn't make the cut, but they interviewed my chief of police at the time and asked, you know, questions. How do you think he's going to do? What do you think?

All this stuff. And you had to get the city to sign off on, you know, filming at the police department and filming me interacting with citizens and, you know, you. using the police car, like all of that had to be in discussion. So it was, you know, everybody knew about it, you know, months in advance. And you were allowed to just take a leave of absence? It was more of like, I would say, not leave of absent, but, you know, you have PTO time that you can use to do this, not two months' worth. But I think at the same time, it is a good opportunity to showcase law enforcement. So I think not. normally, you'd be like, hey, boss, I want to, I'll see you in two months. I think you make

exceptions, you know. Do you think that a lot of department policy, I know you're not in policing now, but do you think a lot of department policy has changed regarding now that social media exists? A thousand percent. I see a lot of cops on TikTok. I think they, I think it has to be. And I tried to do this when I was actively in law enforcement. I tried to be active on social media. We had just started a Facebook page. This was 2012, I think. Yeah, 2012, 2012, 2014. Facebook was out there, but it wasn't, you know, we're talking about 10 years ago.

It wasn't as prevalent as it is now. We didn't have a Facebook page. You know, we had started one. And I went and played football outside of the school. I felt like I was about to do Fresh Prince. Went to play outside the school with the kids. I was in uniform. I had my partner, he was in uniform, like in our police uniform, and we were like playing football with the kids. I was like, Chief, this would be a really something awesome to put on social media, shows that we're active in the community, shows that we're engaging.

And his response was, well, I really think that you're just trying to highlight yourself. And I really think, I really just think you're not doing this for the good of the police department, but you want to show that you're, anyway, it was, I tried to be involved in social media. I think it's very good for social media to be involved as far as law enforcement. I don't know if you've seen it. There's a sheriff in Pineau County in Arizona, not a sheriff, but a deputy that he does nothing but traffic. And he does traffic stops. And he's become very popular on TikTok. But it does show a different side of police officers, which is, I say it in 60 days in a lot.

I wanted people to see that side of police officers like the human. side because my cellmates that I experienced in 60 Days in, like legitimately were my friends. Like I wanted people to see that side of me to know that although I'm a police officer and although these are inmates, true inmates, dude, I'm still rocking with you, man. Like, I'm still going to hang out with you. We're still going to be cellmates. We're still going to play cards together. We're still going to talk about women together.

like, yeah, but anyway, social media. Yeah, I love watching the sheriffs that are going viral and from Florida because they're just so, like, out there and they're outspoken and they're not afraid to hold back. They're just like being themselves. They're talking about cases, but they do it in like a funny way. Yeah. And they meet suspects at the airport when they're getting extradited. It's just so interesting to see because that world didn't exist just a few years ago. No, not even a little bit.

And I think it was frowned upon probably, too. Like, police departments didn't know, hey, is this, don't. Do we want to take this avenue of social media or not? Because I think they were worried to, like, back, well, now obviously, police officers can have beards. And, you know, uniform policy is much more relaxed than it was. Back then, it was shave your face. You can't have hair below here and you can't have facial hair. Like, it was very strict.

And police officers had to look and act a certain way, very robotic. But now things are more relaxed. We're on social media. I think even police departments have a social media team. now to where like we're cops and all we do is social media. So I think it's definitely the right direction and the right thing to do because obviously social media is where everybody, most people get their news from. So when I did Mr. Beast, there was an incentive to make it the 100 days. Was there an incentive to make it 60 days? I mean, for people who say that, yes,

We volunteered to do 60 days in. But we also had to pay our bills on 60 days in. We don't just leave home and leave our jobs and not get a paycheck. So the incentive was we will pay you a certain amount of money while you're doing this, just like any reality show, Big Brother, Survivor. They're getting a stipend per week that you're on the show. And I finished the show 60 days in. I completed the whole thing.

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They'll be guys that get offered to do 60 days in and they refuse to do it because they consider it like a snitching show. They could. That's one perspective to look at it. For me, though, I wasn't going into it to snitch. per se. Yes, there is. I wanted to help, I wanted to help the colonel, like, let him know how drugs and stuff are coming into the prison. But it wasn't me like, hey, so-and-so is doing drugs, like y'all might want to go talk to him. That was never, I went into it. There's a lot of things that we did do well. And, for example, when we filmed the show, all commissary requests were

done on electronically on a little computer they had on the wall. Any medical requests, though, were done on a piece of paper. And it wasn't carbon copy. So it's not like an inmate got a copy of something. And then the CO's got a copy of it. It was, hey, CO, my tooth hurts. I need to see a dentist. All right, cool, got it noted down. Walk outside. Throw it in trash. There's no record of you ever requesting medical help. So you see this and you go on, you're like, we tell the colonel at the end of this, hey, you know, what's fucked up is, for example, a guy named JT, that was, he was an inmate in the show. He had been in there probably at the time. He'd already been there a couple of months. And this was his story to me. He's like, man, when I came in, I had this really bad, like, tooth problem, like

hurting severely bad and I've tried to get medical and medical and medical nothing's happening so he pulled like a castaway move and he knocked out his own tooth and um because he couldn't get help from the jail and I was like what the fuck dude like did he said you asked for medical but like how does that work oh well you just tell the guard and they write it down and see what happens I was like what some BS so fast forward in the show we tell the colonel like if they can order commissary on a computer, how come medical request can't be on a computer as well to where it's documented? They know that there's a paper trail, some sort of paper trail. And so that was implemented after we left is that now inmates, whatever requests they need, whether it's medical request, if they need medication, whatever the case is, everything is.

documented at the same computer that you order commissary from. And so that is something that I wanted to do going into it. How can I improve the system itself, whether it be big or small? And I feel like that was a big thing that we got

accomplished by us filming the show there is from an outside perspective going into it being like trying to find the flaws and things. And you have your people that say, oh, they're inmates. You know, it's not supposed to be some kind of ritzy place.

Yeah, but it's also some of these people in a county jail, this isn't prison, this is a county jail, these people haven't even been to court yet. They haven't even been proven guilty yet. They're literally in county jail waiting for their court date. Still kind of think they need, you know, to be treated fairly. And so us making that small change is a huge win for me because this guy that had a a tooth problem and knocked his own tooth out, he could have documentation that he requested medical help. And, you know, I feel like that was a big accomplishment. And that wasn't going

into Snitch. I was going in to genuinely help the system. So that's a good point right there. Do you feel like the system is treating some individuals guilty before being proven innocent? Yeah, of course. And that's not me like going against the grain and going against law enforcement. But yeah, there's definitely situations where we have to look at the totality of the situation and then make a decision based on that. But for example, when I was filming the show, there was a lot of people that interacted with and talked to that, you know, they're repeat offenders. They're always in the system. But then there's people that are there for the first time, had never gone through anything like that before. So they were arrested for something super minor, something super small.

And having to deal with certain situations that they were dealing with, like, for example, the medical request and even clothing. There were certain times when these inmates didn't have the pants that they were given or like five times too big. And they had to come up with like a – they had to – so our sandwiches came in like plastic. cellophane wrap or whatever. So they tie all these sandwich baggies together to make a belt to hold your pants up because the pants that we were given were five times too big or else you'd be walking around the jail in your underwear. And so just small things like that to be like if a CEO

can see that dude, I'm wearing these pants that are being held up by sandwich bags. And again, that sounds minor. And people that will watch this will be like, dude, what are you bitching about? Like that's so that's so stupid for you to even to be bitching about something that small. These people are in jail. Again, it's county jail. Sometimes these people are in county jail for a classy misdemeanor or something. I still think you need a little bit of courtesy and professionalism when you're in the jail. I don't know what you asked me, but. And it's probably a state where it's cash bail. Yeah, exactly. Well, I don't know about Georgia. This was Fulton County. So this was Georgia. I

wasn't familiar with the laws there, but. So day one, a 60 days in, when does it go from you're a member of a production to now you're an inmate? Oh, it was immediately booking. That's because even in your booking process, nobody knows who you are. The people booking you in, I have no idea who I am. The only thing different was I didn't get electronically booked in. I had to get my prints manually done, and I had to give them a false.

name, but other than that, it was a normal book-in process like anybody else does. So it's immediate. And I only knew what to expect from being a cop. When I arrested people, I dropped them off at Book-in, and I left and started doing my job again. I don't know what happens after Book-in. It's not like I can just go walk around the jail because where I work versus where I had to take people, it's a whole different county. It's a whole different department. I don't work here where I drop people off. So I don't just have the freedom to walk around the jail. So I don't know what happens after that. And so for me getting book in and anything after book in was all brand new to me. Who dropped you off? It was a sheriff's deputy. He knew what we were doing. But we met at an undisclosed location. I got in the back of his patrol car. And then he brought me in through the Sally Port like a normal prison.

would just like nothing out of the ordinary like I'm in handcuffs my feet are on handcuffs I'm walking in there just like an inmate would like that way nobody knows anything different what was the most surprising thing to you about the intake process from being on that side of it nothing surprising I mean it was pretty much what I expected just based on what I've done it was after the fact that I was just so like just caught off guard by everything after the book in process You know, you get your clothes and you go through the book in just like you would normally. But then it's after you get placed into this, like, in Fulton County, into this other holding cell. And you're in the cell by yourself.

And at the time, I didn't know you could turn the cell lights off. So I'm there, like, overnight in this whole different area from normal gin pop. And I'm just like sleeping on this metal bed. Obviously there's a little cushion. But in the lights, just like this, just like this, just brink. And I didn't know you could turn these things off, so I'm just like miserable. I'm like, what the fuck did I just get myself into? And then the very next day, we get out of there and you're taking your paperwork everywhere with you still at this time because you're not in your assigned pod yet.

And you're just carrying your stuff around. And then you finally, they take you down these like hallways and up these elevators and they finally get to where all the prisoners are being held or inmates being held. And that's when you, that's when it becomes like real. Like they pop those doors. and then everybody in these pods look at you and you're like fresh meat walking in and I remember feeling it as soon as they open the door and I walk in

it's just like oh fuck like that's when you're like what did I do man? Like it's crazy. Tell us about the camera setup is it are they just using the cameras that are in the security cameras for footage or do they have actual production crew walking around?

Yeah yeah so all the cameras that are in this pod they've got the ones that have been there for ages. Like you can tell how old they are. They're like in these boxed off, like it's a camera, but it's protected by something. So obviously inmates can't like fuck with it. But then the production A&E goes in and installs all these like high tech cameras all along the wall. So you've got cameras like just mounted on the wall and the whole entire pod.

Then in each cell you've got a camera that's mounted like on the wall in each cell. Then you've also got a camera crew that comes in. in daily and does their like, you know, their small one-off pieces, their interviews. So you've got a multitude of variety of cameras. So the inmates there know that 60 days in is being filmed? No. They're told that this is a documentary about how life is in jail. So again, do you haters that say, oh, there's a camera crew there, aren't they? Yes, they know they're being filmed, but it's not, they're not told it 60 days in. So stop.

But do you think now people suspect that 60 days in? What is it like, season 57? Like it's got to be, at some point, you would think that the inmates would be like, bro, it's 60 days in. Like, I don't know, I for sure thought, so I was season four. Again, this was 2016. I for sure thought, this can only go on for like three more years, right? Like before people like pick up on what's going on. No, we're like on season 92 now and it's just like, what are we?

How is this happening still? But yeah. No one suspected 60 days in at all. Well, there's a clip on my season. Again, I don't know if this was edited in. They got some camera magic, but one guy's like, oh, 60 days in. But I'm sure there was, I remember being there kind of talking with people and people being like, I think it's that 60 days in thing.

But then people were like, no, I don't think so. I don't think so. So people had their suspicions, but then other people were like, I'm not really sure. So it was kind of iffy. What was your backstory, your cover story? So originally, production wanted me to be like, all right, Alan, here's your story.

You tried to rob a gas station and you beat up a cop. And that's why you're in. I'm like, you fucking see me? Like, are you serious? That's the story you want me to go in with? this dude short hair all of his teeth look you want me to rob a gas station

I beat a car that's what we're going with and I was like no I can't and they just kept pushing and I kept saying I'm not that's not believable that is not believable so I said I embezzled money

that's what I'm here for embezzlement and basically theft. I said that's much more believable than me beating up a police officer at a gas station. Like, let's go with that. And so they thought that was acceptable. But initially it was me robbing a gas station and beat no cop. Now, is the production team like listening in on calls, making sure inmates aren't calling their family and saying, hey, look this person up, see if they're legit or not? That I don't know. I know all of the calls obviously are monitored. You can see them on the show.

they have access to all those shows or to all those calls. But I don't I don't know how far it goes. Like what I, because there's a, there's a scene in the show where there's a inmate named Big Swole. And he was about to get his ass beat by a lot of people in the pod to the point where talking about this dude's about to die tomorrow. And as luck would have it, in comes. third team to remove them from the pod. And so it became very like, I think if they see some shits about to go down, like, they'll step in and be like, let's get to the kernel and be like, hey, we need to pull so and so out of the pod because here's, I think, some shit's about to go down. So I don't know how much info they had.

Do you think they would let you get hurt on the show for content? They couldn't stop it if I, there's no way they could stop it. You'll see me in several clips of the show witnessing a bunch of fights. And there ain't a CO around. There ain't a CO within a... Half the time there was a fight in the pod, COs never even came in. There is no way they could have prevented it. There's absolutely no way they could have prevented it.

When do you think they'd want to add extra COs just when they're filming a show like this? You would think that they would, but it was the same COs every day. So I don't think that they just had an abundance of staff. It was the same people over and over and over again. And you never saw anybody new. So I just don't think there was an abundance of people to work there. What was your honest take on the CEOs? How were you treated?

The ones that didn't know that you were undercover. Yeah. And you'll see me in a show. Like, there, I, there were certain times where you felt very mistreated. And at certain point, I felt like it was a racial thing, just like people do with police officers. All of the COs, besides one, were all black. And there was very few white inmates.

And so, you know, there came times when I felt maybe there were some things being said or done. That was because maybe I was white. And that's when I'm like, all right, well, I can kind of see. both sides of the story now. Like, you know, there might be some race involved somewhere in this because what one CEO would say to me or do to me, he wouldn't do to someone else. And so that's when I was like, okay, kind of seeing both sides of the story here. And I, you know. Own it all.

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I mean, you got to see, I think, I think maybe you saw kind of what their reaction was after we were gone. I think there was an episode like that where they kind of showed who we were. It would have been interesting to see how they treated you after. Yeah, yeah. Now, there was a couple that remained professional throughout the entirety of the program. But then there were a lot of them that just didn't give a shit, dude. They didn't care. Like I were specifically, I remember telling one of them.

After Poncho left, he was my cellmate that him and I got along great. Then you had some crazy dude. I don't even remember his name. I was only within about a week when he got pulled out. But he was literally schizo dude. I think day two in there, he had already been, jumped into a gang upstairs. And he tells me, he's like, I'm going to kill you in your sleep. and so I

next morning when CEO comes and does his checks I'm like dude you got you got to move sales like I need to get out of here he needs to go out here he just he literally told me he will kill me in my sleep

and he's like well you just got to tell the next guy because I know I can do about it I'm like are you fucking kidding me this guy literally said he's going to murder me and your answer is like eh just tell the next guy so I'm just like okay this is some

they don't give shit they don't care they're just stared up clock in and clock out. What was the most interesting thing about inmate behavior that you learned? Like, for example, in prison, I learned about sitting to pee or taking your shoes off in the cell or knocking on the table. Was there certain, like, inmate behavior that you had to learn? I was only there 46 days. It wasn't a total of 60 days.

We got pulled early. But not really. I mean, you had to, you had to. you had to there was like a pod leader you know once a leader left and they assigned a new pod leader and you pretty much had to I wouldn't say bow down to these people but you pretty much had to get on their good side and make sure that whatever you can do to help or whatever the case was but you had to like play your cards right I mean you couldn't just do whatever you wanted but there wasn't like a specific behavior or anything I'm sure like your experience was um

in the county jail at least. I didn't go to the county jail. I actually went to a private detention facility. It was like a prison or no? It was kind of, it's laid out like a 60 days in type of jail. Like with the tears and the pods and whatnot. How long were you there? Two months.

Okay. And then before I went to real prison. And then in transit, you're at like the MDC in Brooklyn, like the Metropolitan Detention Center. It's kind of laid out like a county jail. Well, how long were you in prison? I did 27 months. Oh, shit, dude. Yeah.

So I'm sure that's the behavior. you're talking about because I'm sure it was very prevalent in prison. Yeah, more like prison politics. You didn't experience any of that. No, not it. Well, other than... Like the hierarchy. There was one person that, like, was the tier guy.

Yeah, like, he ran the shit. But other than your basic knowledge of stuff, like, don't snitch on people. Like, keep to your own group of people. Just your basic stuff that you should probably be aware of before you go in. But there wasn't, like, any, like, specific, like, you were talking about knocking or whatever. How is the food there in the jail on 60 days in? dude um i at towards the end of my stay there was a buddy of mine and we called a rabbit had two front teeth that's why i called him rabbit because he didn't have any other teeth just as

two front ones and fucking amazing dude he'd always tell these stories about like how high he got or he was tripping out on acid or shrooms and um just he was one of those guys where if you're at a party like that's where you want to be because his vibe was just like always i don't know he was just a character anyway i say that that his name because he had a special lunch, a dietary lunch. So he got peanut butter, milk. There was something, oh, applesauce that he got in his own diet. And I got the disgusting shit that they fed us like beans and hot dogs, like hot dogs, like, hot. Hot dog weaners with beans and just disgusting.

Anyway, for whatever reason, he enjoyed that shit. And so we did a trade. And he would also, well, I would also let him use my, on commissary, on store, I would buy, like, it was like near for your face. Because you couldn't shave in County Jail. You couldn't have, like, razors. So you had to buy Nair. And I had to shave with a spoon. And so he.

had facial hair and he's like dude if you buy me some nair i'll give you my and give me your food i'll let you have like the peanut butter and the and so we did a trade and so i got to eat the milk and the peanut butter and applesauce and he ate the dog shit and i gave him uh facial neyer was there commissary items that you could buy and make better food oh yeah we'd make uh it's funny i made someone when i left it was like a dessert i can't remember what it was But it was, you know, we had a, for a guy's birthday, we celebrate. His name is Nate. He did 120 days on the show.

You know, he did two seasons. And Nate was probably the best guy you'll ever meet. He committed suicide a few years ago. But you would see him on my season. Fantastic. Anyway, we celebrated his birthday. and they made a special, like, dinner for him. Like, all the inmates said he was a castmate,

and all the inmates loved him, like, fell in love with him. Super nice guy. And so all the inmates on his birthday got together and got their commissary items and made him, you know, they put it in the bags and they'll crunch it up and they'll put, like, different liquids in it, and they'll put it under the pillow and do the special stuff that they do to make food.

But, like, Mexican pizzas or whatever, they make stuff out of the commissary items. So how many actual contestants are in one episode, I guess? Like, were you with other people that you knew were a part of the show? Well, later we found out they were. But you have no idea going into it. You think they're the only one. Which I think in the later seasons, they do.

But when we did it, you pretty much had to find out who the other participants in. We knew going into it there would be other people, just not who they were. So didn't think Nate was one of them Because he was already there when we entered So it was like and he had already been there for two months We're like well he's not on the show He was he was just doing two seasons But then there was a guy named Andrew

Another White dude with all of his teeth Glasses and a comb over And I'm like hmm And I was like well I got to talk in well what are you here for Oh me and my dad we were up here from Utah and we were panhandling, like, standing in the corner trying to ask for money. And it's illegal, so we got arrested.

I was like, huh. And I told him, I was like, huh, well, I'm here for theft, and they gave me 60 days. You know, that's kind of my punishment. So that's why I'm here. And I think then it clicked of like, oh, okay, cool. So he's one of me. And so then we had to go into it being like, all right, well, who else in here? as part of this show.

But I think it was just me, Andrew and Nate, and our pod. And then Andrew's dad and a few other people were in, so there's a door dividing it and then the pod right over here and then all the women.

How hard is it to actually keep to your backstory? Because when I was in prison, when you're locked in the cell with someone, you could get a lot out of someone. You could, if you guys mesh and you're talking and... Well, luckily for me, It wasn't hard because we didn't talk about that.

At very first, it was a very initial conversation of like, hey, why are you in here? Okay, cool. It wasn't anything crazy. It wasn't like a sexual offense or anything like that. So it wasn't anything that normally probably get your ass beat for. It was just basic stuff. So we talk about it once, move on. Now let's get to know each other.

And, yeah, it was just normal guy conversation. Who are you going to have sex with? Like, if you had to pick, like, who would it be? or, you know, just your normal guy conversation. What do you do for fun? You got a girlfriend, like, what's your story? Like, tell me, you know, stuff like that. Were you able to talk to your wife?

Yes. When they pulled us out for, like, one-on-one interviews, they would, if you needed to, like, if it was to the point of me, like, going home or not, if you wanted to talk to your loved one, they would call them for you. Well, you couldn't use the wall phone like a normal inmate? Yeah, you could. But I just, I don't remember doing that a lot because it was easy for the other inmates to steal your, like, pin numbers and stuff. So I just chose not to do that.

But I do remember towards the end, they did bring my wife at the time in. And when I got back to do the interview, she was there. So it was kind of cool to see her to kind of give you that energy you needed to kind of finish. Did you think about quitting at all? Oh, fuck yeah, dude. You'll see me in the show. I made the little signal back then was handover you like this. And this was right after the guy, the crazy guy that was like, I'm going to kill you.

And that's when I was like, I can't do this anymore. So I make the signal and the camera crew comes in. And they're like, uh, talk to, uh, at the show. was Thomas Thomas I'll talk to you I'll do an interview so they pull you out to interview and like tell me what's going on and that's when I just lost I'm like I don't know if I can do this anymore like mentally I'm just kind of messed up right now and I kept asking how much longer

how much they wouldn't tell me how much longer I had and so I sent me back in there and I was about to just be done with it and that's when they pulled us all out of the show why'd they pull out early That's what she said That was a good one Because one of the female participants Had fell in love with an actual inmate

And she told everybody Hey I'm undercover on a TV show right now And so for the safety of everybody else They're like pull everybody out Because if this word gets around That there's undercover people in this jail Y'all could get hurt But they still marketed it as 60 days in

Yeah it's like 46 days Did they say that in the show? that it was only 46? No, I kept count mentally. I had a calendar in the, one of the magazines that someone had left had a calendar in it. And so I just kept it.

And each day I was there, I marked off like a day. And so it was 46 days. How long did that actually feel like being away for that long? Because I know like when I went to do Mr. Beast, 100 days seemed so easy on paper. But when you're in there,

dude, it felt like years of my life. Seriously, I did. Because it's all news. situation. But what's crazy, man, is to longer you're in there, the more comfortable you get. And it's just like, it becomes routine for you. Like, we wake up. My routine was I woke up. I was pretty much the first one in the showers every day. And when I say showers, I mean, singular, there was probably 60 plus people in one pod with two showers. So is one person at a time. It wasn't everybody in a shower one. time because if you even mention the word gay in the county jail that I was in, you can get your

ass beat. So there was one person in a shower at a time. Don't you even walk by the shower if someone's in there. Like that was not a thing that you do. But I woke up to the shower, made coffee, had my instant coffee. Halfway through the show, hot water went off. So for 30 of those 46 days, it was cold water. So make your coffee, and then you start playing spades, and you turn the TV on, and we watched the Kardashians. And if it was Sundays, we watched football. And you just did your thing. You played cards.

You ate. You watched TV. You watch some fights happen, and sometimes you get locked down, and you spend your time in your cell. And I got my tablet that I paid $20 a month for. and you get on your tablet and listen to pod well podcast wasn't a thing back then but you $20 and you listen to like little clips of stuff they got on the tablets and listen to music and you just do that every day. So when I was in prison, I was so shocked that inmates would actually watch cop shows and police shows from prison. Did they do that at that jail? No, we weren't allowed to.

Oh, to watch cop shows? Well, it was very strict. It was it was we got to watch the. Kardashians, even that wasn't really loud. And then football. And I remember specifically, I was there on election night, 2016. And that was the only time we could watch anything that was political, anything news-related, political, not allowed to watch. But it was election night, 2016. And my cell was, from where my cell was versus where the TV was, it was mounted way up on the wall where nobody could touch it. They turned the election on. And I,

stayed up and I watched it all night because I'm right there in front of it. And when I tell you, that place went nuts when Trump was elected the first time, like the guards, they all, like every one of them just, you would have thought like their mom died or something. It was just, it was a wild day the next day. I just remember that so vividly because of everybody's reaction to it. like people were like the guards were like I'm quitting my job I'm not ever coming back like it was got it got crazy people were on the tables like throwing shit like it was crazy that's so crazy that you say that because that was my point of view because I was at MDC in Brooklyn at the detention center literally in a cell that faced the TV on election night and we were all watching 2016 2016 and then I remember going to medical the next day and on the screen was they were waiting for Hillary Clinton to do her speech, her concession speech. And like, it was delayed or whatever. And they were just the empty stage.

But I remember being there for that election. So we were both locked up at a cell at the same exact time. That's crazy. I was filming a show. You were like there. Actually locked up. Yeah. So at any point during this, did you start to question going back to policing?

Or did that not come till after? I knew, I think I knew like. And here I'll tell you why is because. Back then, this was, again, 2008, 9, 10, 11, 12. Dude, I was making 30K a year being a cop. 30K for the entire year. I made that doing the show for 46 days. And I'm like, wait a minute, what am I doing?

Like, not only am I risking my life for $15 an hour, but I'm potentially ruining other people's lives for $15 an hour. Like I felt no, I don't know, I just didn't feel like that was where I needed to be. Like I think going into it when I saw people, when I met people there, that I was like, oh, these are like, some of these guys, yeah, some of those guys needed to be there. Some of those guys were just like, fuck, they didn't make a bad decision. And I was just like, man, I don't think I can, I think I'm done after this. I think when I got out, I did, I was, what do they call it? They held my license active.

I basically volunteered like eight hours a month to keep my license active. I did that for a little bit after, so I could keep my certificate, my license active. But shortly after that, I've just, like, done with it. Oh, so you never went back to really a full shift when you got home? Mm-mm. Wow. Mm-mm.

I mean, at the time, I mean, not that I brought home a lot of money because you've got to think I was paying taxes in Texas, Georgia, and we also filmed in New York. So I was paying taxes in three different states out of the money they gave us. So the money I got when I got out, it wasn't. Like, here, Alanere's 30K to do the show. I didn't see damn near half of that. But when I got out, I was like, you know what? I've got enough right now. I'm good.

Did you realize at the time that that last full shift was going to be your last shift? I don't think so. No. I don't think so. Would you have done that differently? Which part? The shift. Working?

Oh, the last shift? Yeah. Probably not. Because I can tell you this. I could go to bed at night knowing that when I got to work, the police work that I did, now I'm not saying I didn't make mistakes because I did. But the police work I did, I did it with very good intentions. Like I knew I could go to sleep at night knowing that what I did was my job and I didn't stray away from that. like I knew what I was doing was what I was supposed to be doing, whether it was right or wrong, meaning taking that guy to jail, the military or the guy that didn't have a license.

Like, I knew I was doing what I was supposed to do in that moment. And so I knew that any time I went to work, I did things that I was supposed to do correctly in the right way, whether I agreed with them or not. I gave it what I was supposed to give while I was on duty. So I don't think I would have changed anything. Was it hard to adjust when you got home? A little bit, which was weird because I was only in jail 46 days, but I missed my little cot. Like I couldn't sleep on a, I remember they put us up in a hotel the first night we got out. And I couldn't sleep. Like I missed my little, like it's as big as this little cushion is.

And I missed that little cushion that they gave us to sleep on. And it took a minute to kind of get out of that routine. And again, I know it's only 46 days, but dude, that's your life for, like you said, it feels like it's forever. And you kind of get a job. Free is great, but only if it's useful. Free credit scores from some apps can differ by as much as 100 points from your actual FICO score that 90% of top lenders use when you apply for a credit card, personal loan, car loan, or mortgage. That can mean a higher interest rate, a bigger monthly payment, or worse. Denied.

My FICO gives you your actual FICO score. The score lenders use straight from the company that created it. For the moments that matter, get the score that matters, your FICO score. Visit myfico.com and get started for free today. It's tested to the routine. And yeah, it just, it took probably about a week and it was good. What do you think was the biggest eye-opener for you doing this experience? honestly I think when you got to know the people that were there some really cool people

like I made legitimate friends with some inmates that were there and before that when I was just seeing the cop side of things man you're an inmate like I don't want none do with you don't want to talk to you like you're an inmate like you fucked up you broke the law dude you're a terrible person then you get in there and talk to them it's like Oh man, this dude's a good dude. He just kind of made a bad decision. And I think that was like my biggest, like, eye-opener was like, man, a lot of these people in here are really decent humans.

They just made a bad decision. And before that, that's not the way I thought. So I think it was very much, I became super open-minded after that about people who are in jail. Like we need to we need to stop before we condemn someone and really dive into their stories and why they are there before we just cast blame on someone. Now I asked you about the guards, but the inmates, did you have any relationships with them after? Did you get to meet anyone or talk to them? Dude, I'm telling you.

And I want so bad. I forgot Poncho's real name. if social media can do your thing and find poncho i'd love to talk with him um because i really we had a had a bond man like we were buddies in the jail uh it's funny he he gave me the permission to use the n-word while we were in jail he's like dude you can use it you can say it bro you can say it if you want to i was like no i'm good but i appreciate that like you felt like you were just like I'm invited to the cookout, bro. Like, I made it.

Like, and I don't know, man. We became buddies and friends. And I just forgot his name. And I've wanted to reconnect with him and just tell him if he saw this show. And he was like, wait, that dude was a cop the whole time. Like, I don't want there to be any, like, hard feelings. If there is, that's fine. But if not, man, I just want to say what's up to him.

And, you know, I'll get a drink sometime or something. Do you think he'd feel betrayed? Do you think that he valued who you were as a person? Well, you'll see in the show, too, Nate and B.G was his cellmate. They hung out after the show. And they actually became friends like Nate and B. They introduced their children to each other. And BG was an actual inmate.

Nate was on the show. And after the fact, they stayed friends and talked and connected. And so it's possible. I don't know if Poncho would have been as supportive and welcoming as BG was, but I sure hope he is because I enjoyed my time with Poncho. Even Nick, my first cellmate, he was only there for like the first episode I was in it. But he was very welcoming. Like, Alan, here's what you do at this time and like use this to do this and do this.

Well, I'm not here. Here's what you need to do. Like super welcoming. He didn't know me. He know who I was, but it was just some dude that was an inmate there, and he was just passing on his knowledge to me. So I met a lot of nice people there that I did not expect that kind of interaction going into it. What's your life been like since leaving policing? Since leaving policing, I tell you, it's mentally much better.

Here's what people don't think about when they cast judgment on police officers. There were nights I couldn't sleep because I would have nightmares about getting shot or, you know, making a traffic stop and then somebody pulls a knife and stabs me. Like it was hard to sleep. When you're grocery shopping, you're constantly like head on a swivel. like, is somebody that I arrested? Is it, are they here? Do they know where I am? Are they going to find me? Or when you're off shift and you're driving home, does someone know around here that I'm a police officer? Are they going to, when I'm working, are they going to break in and get my daughter or get my wife? Like, you, those are things you think about all the time. And so for mental health, when I left law enforcement, all of that when a

way, like immediately. And you could really just, like, breathe because there's a big weight on your shoulders of like, does people recognize me? Like, you're almost scared to go out to eat when you're off duty because you're like, is someone going to see me that I arrested last week or, you know, does someone have a hit out for me? Like, those are things that you always thought about. And so since then, yeah. Now, there are people that are police officers now that mentally that's not a problem for them. But I think for me, I don't think, again, I wasn't mentally strong enough to do that position as probably as well as other people could handle it because it was tough to mentally handle that. Do you think more law enforcement should have that experience, whether even if it's just for a couple of days, but going inside that jail and seeing the other end of it? A thousand percent.

Do you think it would make them a better officer? I wouldn't say maybe a better officer, but maybe they would kind of think some decisions that they would make. like I would have rethought some decisions that I made. Because again, there are certain officers out there that once they're on duty, they are, I'm police officer. That's what I am. I'm police officer. Like, if they go inside and witness the people that are inside this jail, although they might have broke the law, let's stop and think about, do they necessarily need to be arrested for whatever they did wrong. Can we take a different avenue? A lot of the people

I was in there with nonviolent offenses. Do we need to waste those resources on nonviolent offenses because the people that I spoke with and interacted with and talked to on a daily basis? They were talking to me openly because I'm not interrogating them as a police officer or just one-on-one having a conversation. And it's one of those where it's like they're not saying, oh, man, I'm innocent and I don't do it. You know, you have a conversation. Yeah, I may not, dude, I messed up.

Here's what I did. It's like, do, why are you in here? Like, that's what you did? Why are you in here? Yeah. So I wonder if I would also reduce those few officers that do make those, you know, horrible decisions that lead to criminal behavior preventing them from doing that, like a scared straight type program.

Oh, like, but an opposite? Yeah, like the bad cops out there, the very few ones that are bad. You know, if they, if that was part of the training, it kind of makes them think twice about doing that. That would be a very good during the academy. So during the academy, you don't see any of that. You know, you're just doing your textbook stuff and going to the gun range and whatever you're learning. But you don't ever see the inside of a jail. So, yeah, that might be a good addition to police academy is like, hey,

Here's kind of what you're going to see in this profession. I mean, I don't know how you could pull that off, but yeah, it wouldn't hurt. Would you ever do something like 60 days in again? It depends. I don't know. It would be tough because I really, as it was terrifying. I'm not going to lie to you. Like, I was scared.

But I also met some cool people and had a good time. Like, that's where I learned to play spades. I love spades. And I got my cell number and a spade tattooed on my arm as soon as I left, like probably the next day. I was still in Atlanta. I got this tattooed in Atlanta because it was so impactful to me. And I got to hang out with so many cool people playing spades and got to hear stories of people playing spades. And that's what I would, if I were to do it again, that's what I would want to do is have that.

experience of just the camaraderie and I know it sounds silly camaraderie with the inmates but there were some good times we had if there's one thing you could do differently about policing what would that be when you were an officer that I would do different yeah if there is anything I always found myself to be like you said very compassionate and the fact that I never, which I didn't carry a taser back then, but I only used our OC spray, pepper spray, just a handful of times. And I was a cop for six years. I found myself to be very lenient and compassionate towards people in certain situations. Now, obviously, you'll, the story I told about the people that didn't have the driver's license or whatever, people would listen to me like,

It doesn't sound very compassionate, but obviously it affected me. But, you know, I felt like I did what I was supposed to do and I did it the best way I knew to do it. I didn't go into it like, hey, man, I'm Mr. Policeman and you're coming to jail today. Like, I truly, like we said at the very beginning, I wanted to do it to help people. And I felt like there were tons of situations where I did. I remember, and I had never done it before being a police officer, I changed, I don't know, four tires when I was a police officer. I never knew how to change a tire. That's not something that I did.

But as a police officer, when someone would call the police department, hey, I'm stranded, do you mind helping us? I'll give a shot. Like, I'm going to try. Those are the things you don't see, by the way, on TV. I changed a lot of tires, and hopefully they made it safely. I didn't know what I was doing But yeah I felt like I gave it 100%

And I did it In the most fair way I could do it You know it's interesting that you say that about TV TV doesn't show that But that's why it's great that there's sites like TikTok That do show those good sides Where you're able to easily capture moments And put it out there

Yeah Yeah I I wish There was a participant my name Anjolet, the one that ruined the show for us. She hates cops while he hates cops. I asked her during the reunion show if a cop had saved her from getting shot, if that would change her perspective. She would still hate a cop. No matter if a cop saved her from burning in a fire, she hates them. There's going to be those always. You can't change their opinion no matter

what happens. And that's fine. You have your opinion about police officers, whatever. But I really do think for the majority that most police officers are there to do the right thing. And there's going to be instances where they make the wrong decision, but I do not believe it's done out of hate or a race issue or done in a negligent way. They do it because at the moment they think this is the right thing to do. But when all the facts and the dust are settled, it might have been the wrong decision, but I don't, I think a majority of police officers are there to really just be there to help. A thousand percent.

Yeah. Well, Alan, thank you so much for coming on the show today, man. This was an incredible interview and I'm glad we got to do it. Yeah, thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it. And looking forward to watching your Mr. Beast locked in 60, 100 days or whatever. Definitely. It was such like, I mean, 60 days did it first, the whole cop concept.

but it's it's I think you'll find some similarities to it too. Yeah and real and I'm just I know you've been in prison, but what is what is your take on law enforcement? I love law enforcement. I think when I was going through my case, I was bitter towards law enforcement, but then I realized it was beyond law enforcement that was kind of like targeting me.

It was more like a political like more prosecution, higher above law enforcement. The law enforcement guys were just doing their job. They weren't the issues. and so for the perfect example I was compared to when the postal inspectors and the FBI agents arrested me, we were sitting in the car on the way of the courthouse and they were just shooting the shit with me talking like normal people. Yeah. They're not bad people.

And then really doing the show, because I interviewed so many law enforcement officers and now we're doing even more. Our friend Steve Murphy, who was a guy that brought down Pablo Escobar, connected us to a bunch of them. former DEA, FBI, everyone. So we're having so many good conversations. And that really puts things in perspective, too. But I'm so pro-law enforcement. Love having them on my show. And I try to help former inmates that are very ex- or that are very against law enforcement

to kind of see the other side of it. And I think because so many former inmates watch a show they get to see that too. And they see that they're not so different after all, that they could have easily made that same mistake too that would have led them down the criminal path or the law enforcement path. Yeah. So it's super interesting to see those perspectives.

Yeah, definitely. So I love that aspect. And I was, I talked about it a couple episodes now, but I did have that one guy that was so against law enforcement that came on the show. And then we're trying to like calm them down and explain that not all cops are bad. And he was the one that did that,

stabbing at the courthouse a couple months ago in New York City, which was very sad to see. But there are people like that. And, you know, if we could try to change that narrative, then I think the world would be a better place. For sure. But yeah, thanks again, Alan. Yes, sir. Thank you, buddy.