Locked In with Ian Bick - County Jail Secrets: What Inmates REALLY Have Access To & The Truth About 60 Days In | Nathan Carter

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

Nathan Carter, a seasoned county jailer, sat down with Ian for an in-depth interview inside the courthouse. In this insightful conversation, Nathan reveals the truths about what inmates have access to, how contraband gets in, and the ongoing efforts to stop illegal items from circulating in the jail system #CountyJailSecrets #InmateAccess #ContrabandControl #JailInsider #BehindBars #JailTruths #PrisonContraband #CorrectionsOfficer Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Nathan Carter: https://www.facebook.com/nathan.carter.9235?mibextid=LQQJ4d Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Introduction and Background of Nate 00:03:14 Transitioning to Law Enforcement Roles 00:06:07 Changes in Jail Management and Programs 00:09:16 Preparing for Life after Release: A Day in the Life of Inmates 00:12:20 Coaching New Hires: From Beginner to Confident Employee 00:15:41 Unique Commissary Items: Cigarettes and More 00:18:47 Building Relationships with Inmates 00:22:00 Purpose and Use of Solitary Confinement 00:25:28 Supporting Local Eateries During COVID 00:28:43 The Redeemability of Prison Inmates 00:32:22 Rehabilitation and Second Chances in Jail 00:34:42 Election and Accountability in Local Government 00:37:50 Monitoring Methods for Contraband Prevention 00:40:57 The Role of Cameras in Promoting Accountability 00:45:04 Reality vs. Fiction: Jail and Prison Shows 00:47:04 Innovative Re-entry Program in Rock Castle County 00:50:13 Behind the Scenes: Campaigning Journey Begins Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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In fact, we're so confident restoration is guaranteed, pour your money back. Isn't it nice to have someone like that on your side? Save up to 30% your first year at lifelock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. Nate, welcome to Locked in. Thank you so much for having us, inviting us to your jail to do this interview. And we got to see a great program downstairs just now that I'd love for you to talk about leader in this interview. It's really cool when, you know, former inmates get invited back into correctional facilities and get to sit down with law enforcement to have these types of conversations.

Yeah. You want me go a little bit over the program that we just... I'll walk you through. Yeah, we'll get there. Did you grow up in Kentucky entire life? I did. I did. Yeah. Been here my entire life. I lived about three minutes from here. by the public library grew up in the neighborhood down there we called the valley yeah my grandparents i had my great-grandfather was a sheriff here in a county my grandfather was a clerk and um growing up you know i was always in the political mindset of it you know i'm to me i'm not a politician there i think there is a difference um politicians and what i consider myself you know i took this job to try to help people because i've seen people struggling

a whole lot while I worked here through the facility over the years. But yeah, that's the only reason why I've tried to move forward and take in, run for the office of jailer like I did. So are you an elected official? I am. Yeah, elected by. Now, does that make your job more difficult? Do you think to do effectively because you're elected?

Or is there more pressure? What are, like, the differences? There is more pressure if you let it get to you, just like any job you can let it get to you. Yeah. Like I told you earlier, I started in 2007. I worked here, I've been going on 16 years, six years as the jailer. Ten was as a deputy. When I started in 2007, a lot of my family members was in here, which was hard to deal with.

As the years went on, I spoke with the other jailer at the time and told him that, you know, this is what I want to get into. I want to be able to, because I've seen his position. If I had that position, you know, I could help. I could do things and help them while they're inside here from when they're released. You know, had to run for office, get reelected. I think I run against four other people at the time, including the previous jailer. You know, so.

So were you allowed to work in here while you had family members incarcerated? Yes. So I guess that's very different than like a normal state prison or a federal prison because I don't think they would normally let that happen. And like I said, it's very, very hard. You know, they knew I was a deputy and I talked. I told him, look, you know, while you're in here, yeah, you're family, but I have to do my job and treat you as an inmate.

You know, I can't come back here and hang out with you just because, you know, you want to have family time, you know, or I can't bring you something special because, hey, you know, hey, man, you're my cousin, you know, we always run around. Is there any way you can bring me an ink fence? Man, I can't do that, you know, I just, I mean, I can't. That's just, you know. Yeah. So growing up, did you envision that you would be here?

today running this facility? No. What was like your plan? My goal was to be a police officer. You know, I've done some security work off and on. And then there's an opening come down here. And I said, well, I'm going to give that try. It's a stepping stone because everybody was telling me,

all the officer said, you know, work in the jail for a little while. You know, start learning KSRs and our KRSs and everything. And then we apply for the academy and then, you know, it'll help you, you know. But by the time it's time to apply for Academy, me, I don't want to do that no more. I want to try to run the facility here and try to make a difference in a change in this facility and the people here in the county. Now that you've been in this role, do you wish that you did take the police officer out?

No, I wouldn't trade anything for this role. And why is that? I love it. I love it. Now, did you go graduate high school? I did. So you finished high school? Did you go to college for law enforcement?

I did for right at three years. I went at Somerset Community College and a computer graphics. Oh, so very different than what you did that. During high school, I was in art. I was artistic. I could draw real good. I mean, not bragging, but so I was wanting to try to go more that way. Got out of high school, went into computer graphics,

piddled with that for a few years, and then just decided to try the law enforcement side. You know, that's interesting. Does that creativity that you had, you know, back in your youth, help you do your job here better? I feel like it can kind of give you new ideas to bring in and run the facility. Yeah. It gives me ideas, and I don't know, a lot of people says I like to color coordinate things and keep things in order. And I don't know.

Yeah, I say it does play a role somehow. I never thought about it. Yeah, well, I mean, there's nothing wrong with keeping that organized and stuff. I do the same thing. I got sticky notes. See, like one thing, you know, when I took over as jailer, they could just wear whatever they wanted. People could, the family could drop whatever color, whatever they wanted off and the inmates was allowed to wear it. So I said, well, I'm going to color coordinate them.

I'm going to put county inmates in red, state inmates in blue. I'm going to put all state inmates in a cell together, all county inmates in a cell together. That way I can tell we're who's who and who's were. And when we got court days, I can run red to court, you know, instead of trying to run down certain people in three or four different sales, everybody's in, you know, certain cells. And the judges got to catch them on to seeing why are they, well, who's, while they're in red and why they in blue. I said, well, these are my county inmates. They said, oh, so the blue ones are your state. So they're already doing time.

And I'm like, yes, ma'am, that's right. So, you know, that played a role into them deciding, I guess, on how to give people time. You know, somebody's up there on traffic tickets and they're wearing blue. Well, they're doing years already. So we might as well just run their time in with them and have it be done with instead of trying to give them additional time to set in jail. Yeah.

That's interesting that they were able to bring their own clothes because, so I'll get common. on videos that people are like, oh, people can drop off their clothes and then other people say, no, you can't. I've never came across one where you could actually back before you took over have your own clothes. They can have any, whatever clothes are dropped off. What about like food or drinks or anything like that? There was times that they was bringing pizzas and dropping them off. Letting the, you know, deputies take it to the M.A. He's like, oh, this is for, you know, Nathan Carter. Oh, okay, you will take it to me. But I don't think that lasted too long.

Yeah, I had a lot of issues. I can imagine that. So how different has being a jailer, you know, changed since when you were, you know, working here to now running the facility yourself? I'm going to say that previous jailers would tell me, you know, I go to him with an idea or say, hey, man, you don't need to do it this way. Let's do that way. Until you're in this position, you got to do it this way. You know, I guess that's something that, well, I'm going to get that position. and, you know, because the ideas I had, they wouldn't implement them until, I don't know,

I don't know if they thought it was wrong or if they didn't agree with it, you know. So, you know, when I took over, I had several ideas to try to do different things. You know, some programs like we had today, people wanted to come in, jellers would say, I don't have the room or I don't have a time slot, you know, churches, you know, I don't have extra time slot, you know, can't fit you in you. Well, that's one thing I wanted, I mean, shoot, there's plenty of time, you know. I mean, for one, you know, not to sound mean, to the inmates for nothing, but they're not going nowhere.

You know, my deputies, I mean, I can make time for you just tell me what day works best for you, and I'll get you in a time slot. And, you know, that's one thing I've done. I got all kinds of programs, church programs. Every day is covered up with something, sometimes two or three a day. to the point now that, you know, people's wanting to come certain days, I am full. I mean, I've got, I don't have nothing. I mean, it's all packed, and I pack it as soon as somebody decides they can't do it no more,

I'll call somebody, hey, you know, I got an open slot. You still want to come. You know, I mean, that's, and I enjoy having them come in there and ain't nothing beats looking on my cameras at home and seeing a sale full of guys or females down there standing in a church room holding hands and praying. And they won't do that in front of their buddies. But, you know, when you get them off and they're in there and having church and the Lord talks to them, I mean, you see that and I see that on camera.

I mean, it's amazing. It makes me feel good. I think one of the biggest issues in the prison system is that there's no activities. There's no things going on. And if you jam pack the day with multiple things, I think that, you know, lowers violence, lowers a lot recidivism, all of that. It doesn't. A lot of people think that the jail.

you know, put them in there, they're locked away. I mean, I ain't got to worry about them. You know, to me, if they come into jail, I've got a chance. I've got that person here, you know, depending on how long he's here for, that I might be able to, you know, give him a chance that working on the floor is a trustee. All right, look, you got to be up at eight. Beds got to be made, and you come out to work, you work the floor, this is the order. You know, when you come out, you clean the bathrooms, you clean the walls top to bottom,

them, you clean the windows, you know, I mean, get on the schedule, let them start keeping it. And people, I'm not being mean to them, I'm trying to get them used to working once they get released, you know. And I tell them if you need, you know, when you get released, you know, I can get, I've got connections with the factory here in the town that they will hire them. They tell them my name as a recommendation, you know, and they bring me an application, and I sign off on it, and then they do put them to work. I mean, I try to set up, I guess, a schedule of some sort

and try to get them used to going out to the real world and starting all over. So when you started here, did you ever envision yourself, you know, becoming the jailer? And at what point in your career did you decide I'm going to become the jailer? And what made that change? Probably about my third year here, family members, being in here. You know, watching them, knowing they're struggling when I get out, you know,

and then there's nothing in here to offer to get help. There was nothing. We had church one night a week. You know, there's nothing. You know, and they couldn't do everybody. You know, they'd come in and do a couple sales and gone. You know, some sales and some people, hey, man, when's church coming back? I want them to go to church.

You know, they'll be back Monday. You know, I'll try and get you, we'll try and get you in. And then, you know, that person might get out in that week's time or something. But, no, I didn't, about three years in is when I decided to, I said, I can make things different in here. I mean, I just got to give it a shot, you know, talked it over with my wife, and she said, why do you got to lose? I mean, if you run, you get beat, you never had it in the first place. You don't know until you try it. I mean, give it a shot.

And you won that first time you ran? First time I ran. Run against four other people. Plus the jailer that was already in office. Now, were you running against individuals that were already working in the facility? Yeah, the jailer was already, yeah. And what about the other individuals? Were they working in the facility?

No, none of them was. They were just other people in the county. Wow, so was that weird when you were running against each other and you're still working under him? Yeah, no, I left. Oh, you left? I left. Yeah, I left before I. And I told him, you know, I said, look, it ain't nothing personal.

But this is something I've been wanting to do for a few years. You know, I'm going to step away and, you know, You know, I'll be running against you come election time. He said, well, I wish you luck, man. I said, thank you. And that's just, I left and went to hospital security for the remaining, I think, two years and four or five months, and then filed and ran the election and was blessed and come back.

That's awesome. Once you became the jailer and became the boss, did you reflect back on your time as just an officer as a guard and maybe kind of think over your actions as an officer, seeing it from a different perspective now, inside the jail? Yeah, and I do that with new hires, people that's working under me, you know, people starting out. When I started here, I probably, I might have weighed 185 pounds, and I was little, I was scared, and I see that in some people that I hired over the years, you know,

and try to bring them in them in a little bit and say, hey, look, you know, this, I was in your shoes when I started, you know, back in 07, no, this is, I mean, try to teach them what to expect and So it ain't cut out for everybody. Now you're on the pre-workout and about to be on some woo energy. Yeah, Lou energy. Yeah, I'm dying to try it. Yep, we're going to make sure you get some of that. Rick Flares woo energy.

That's awesome. So what was that first week like, you know, transitioning to becoming the actual jailer? Very busy. I think the second, first day, first day in office, state police, sheriff, city police, probation pro maybe vehicle law enforcement I had a bunch of all my friends my cousin was chief of police at the time

all come to the jail and we stripped it took everything out thought everything all the mats away blankets I ordered all new because where they was allowed to have so much stuff I mean it was dangerous for them inmates and for staff to have so much

and a lot of contraband we found, you know, somebody's just going to get hurt eventually. I mean, they helped me. It took us over eight hours. I know it was a strip, we filled up two blue dumpsters. County garage and them kept emptying the dumpsters for us. It was a mess.

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Conditions apply. You found in your career. I could probably show you. I'm afraid of it. It's probably a gallon water jug that we'd feed the sales, or you know, takes his sales. The inmate had, and I'll show it to you before we leave, inmate, I don't know how he made it, but it's a shank about that long,

probably about that big around, filed down to, I mean, it'd probably go through that wood. And this was made out of a plastic water bottle? Yes. How did he melt it down or something? I had no idea how he never did tell me. I had no idea how he'd done it. Now, when you find something like that, what do you do?

Well, we take it and do an EOR, extraordinary occurrence report. You know, we got to send it in the DOC, and, you know, of course the person gets a ride-up. and then it goes in his file and I always keep stuff like I had to find that way I can show it during training or show it to new officers or, you know, show it to who, you know, court judges ask, you know, why you got this person in isolation or why can't, for instance, the guy we found stuff on, his lawyer called me and want to know why I'm strip searching him every time he speaks with him. You know, I'm like, well, come by my office, I'll show you. This is why, you know, I don't want him to take him. nothing like us in the airways talking to you and stab you through the throat. I mean, I ain't doing it to be mean to the man. I'm doing it to protect you, you know, I mean.

And that's probably the, I mean, I've seen all kinds of little tattoo guns. It's amazing that they can make tattoo guns out of a piece of war and a battery from a CIG. Now, do you guys allow cigarettes in here? E Csigs. Oh, you do allow ECs. Yes. Oh, okay. And nicotine pouches, which is the powder nicotine.

And you saw that on commissary? Yes, sir. Okay. What else is on commissary that people might find unusual or unexpected? That's probably about it. Other than that, it's just foods. And they make their, and I'm guilty of going in the cell and sent down eating with the jailhouse noodles, and I'll fix it at the house.

How do you make it? You've got to tell us how you make it. Trash bag, whatever noodles you decide to order, throw it in there. Pickles, throw it in there, red hots, throw it in there. Red hot, throw it in there, hot sauce, throw it in there, banana peppers, throw it in there. Grape jelly, if you want to throw grape jelly in there, some sweetness, throw it in there. Cheetos, crush them up, throw them in there. Doritos, spicy ones, crush them up, throw them in there.

Squeeze cheese, load it down. Boil you some hot water in the hot pot. Yes, you know, pour it in there, let it cook it all up. How long does it sit in the bag for? A few minutes, not long. Do you drain the water after? Yeah, yeah, they drain the water. So you drain it and then dump it into a bowl, split it up?

Nope, we eat it out of trash bag. So ever, if there's a group. I sit down with them and ate them out of trash bag. See, that's what's the difference between like someone in your position, though, and like a warden in a federal facility. Yeah, they probably wouldn't ever do that. They would never even go into a cell like that just to talk alone. Oh, yeah.

I tell my new hires, when you go in a cell, get to know everybody. Look them in an eye, talk to them one-on-one, get to know them. you know i mean that that that plays a role in knowing if they're having bad day some if there's trouble coming up in the sale if something's going to happen you know like i said i sat down night with them before you know when i was a guard you know and i've done it while i've been the jeller i'd go by the sale and they'd knock on the wind and they say Nate you know they call me Nate they don't call me some calls me jailer carter but that just sounds weird they say hey we're cooking jailhouse noodles man you want some i said how long when you start and they say that'd be ready

about three minutes. I said, I'll be back. I'm going to get me a spoon. And I'll go in there sit down with them and eat the... Now, do you guys call them by their first name, or is it last name? Yeah, we call them. Call them by first name. What's your opinion on that? Because in most facilities, it is the last name. That they call the inmates last name. That they call the inmates by the last name. Oh, I don't, I don't know. I'm just used to calling everybody that comes in there by their first name. Yeah, and something I realize here, you guys shake hands. It's very... That is non-existent. respect thing.

Yeah, state, I feel like that that's a big missing piece to, you know, corrections that the respect's not there. Basically, because some, like I said before, some people, they put them in here and they don't treat them like, I guess, human beings. I mean, they're, oh, they're inmates, you know. Hey, if they call them about Carter, lunch, throw on their tray, shut the door back, go back up there and sit down and get on the computer or all their phones. I mean, that's, yeah, I mean, it's a,

And all my inmates down there, you know, I'm not my inmates. Now, I can go in and talk to them. I mean, some people, like I tell them, I consider you my friend. You know, if you need something, if I can help you do it, you'll get it or whatever, I'll, I mean, I will. And they know that. You know, they get out of here, they message me, thank me for the time they've been in here. You know, I don't care to answer your phone call. I don't know how they get my phone number, but they do call me sometimes.

I even had some come to my house and thank me. you know, it's, I mean, I'll shake their hands and hug them just like I would you if I seen you on a street. Yeah. What type of inmates are housed here? Like, what are the charges? And do people stay here long periods of time? No, usually probably five years is the most that somebody would stay here other than that they would get caught into prison. The most serious crimes we have here is, you know, we've got a few that's in here for murder.

and as soon as they get sentenced, the prison, you know, calls them in, we got to take them to prison other than ass, just trafficking or theft, stealing, something like that. Usually what people we house here. So they could be going through a pending case for up to five years, like, say, on a murder case?

No, no, no, no. Usually a murder case, it takes them about a year and a half to two years to finally get sentenced, but they would stay here that time, and then once their final sentence, then the Department of Corrections would call for them and have us bring them to prison. Are you familiar with the Wade Wilson case that's going on right now?

Mm-mm. He had just got sentenced to death, but I was looking at it, and he's actually staying at a county, and now that he's sentenced to death, they'll move him. At Lee County, I believe, in Florida. Really? No. Yeah, so I guess that's interesting. Like, if there was a high-profile case in your town,

they would stay here. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. How does that make you? Unless it involves federal, now, if it involves federal, feds come and take them quick. I mean, we don't.

Do federal inmates ever stay here? No. Okay. I can't house federal inmates due to the size of the jail. And they got a lot more different rules or something that they have to, they got to be, I think they got to be in a cell with other federal inmates. They can't be mixed in a cell.

They can't be in floors. I mean, it's totally different policy, I guess, than state inmates. How many inmates do you keep here at one time? It varies between 80 and 85 as of right now for the last six or seven months. It's only 73 beds. The highest I've seen it has been 152 inside there, which is dangerous for everybody. Because you can imagine just 73 beds. You've got 152 inmates in there, plus your staff.

A lot of tensions are really high when it's overcrowded like that. And what do they put the bat, like a mat on the floor? Yeah, give them mat to sleep on the floor. That's what they would do when the shoe was overcrowded in the federal prisons. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they slip in a mat right on the floor, and that's it. There's three of you guys in a little tiny cell. Do you guys have a shoe here?

One. One? And what is your opinion on the shoe and the use of it? We've had to use it. Did we use it a lot? No. Did we use it a lot back then? Yeah.

I think they're necessary because some inmates, probably cannot stay in population due to either hurting somebody or hurting their self, and I have to have somewhere to put them, you know, and I believe other facilities are the same way, ask for punishment, like if they attack a guard or they get in a fight somebody else, and they go into the shoe, they stay in it, you know, ever how many, week maybe, seven to ten days, depending on the violation that they've done. but other than that we use it basically what we use it for is if somebody is wants to talk it needs a break from the sale which I understand it you're in a cell with

15 people and you need a break I mean they want to go in there to be by their sale for a day or two and then they're you know they're ready to go back just maybe to collect their thoughts or whatever and we use it basically for that I don't use it I ain't use it I ain't use didn't probably, I'm probably jinxed myself, several, several months for any violations or any issues of fighting or conduct or anything like that. Everybody's behaving for the most part, I guess. What's the staff to inmate ratio here? 80 inmates, four staff. Four staff. So four plus you? That's a pretty good ratio. Yeah. I think in the feds it's like one to like 200 or 300. Yeah, it's a lot. That's crazy. Like at the camp,

there was 120 inmates to one. Yeah. And it's usually like one person's probably in like a dorm with 50 people or 100 people maybe. That's little. It's tough, yeah. But it goes back to the respect thing, you know. Yeah.

And see everybody's locked behind a door. The only way it come out is if somebody in a control room opens it. Only people we have on the floors, you know, your trustees. But yeah, it comes back down to a respect thing. Now, how many people are locked in one cell? Is it like a pod? I've been in some facilities where it's a pod. I think we got 13 females in one pod, and they got a big day room area, then they got four small rooms that's just got bunks in them.

The males, they have one huge pod that's got maybe 15 bucks in it, 15 or 16 bucks. I think, and it's just all open. They're not separated any separate paws. Their bunks are right out in the middle of the. Are the living conditions okay? Like how would you describe it to your normal person? jail, but yeah, it's okay. I mean, no windows. You can ask them what one thing they like to have. They say window. Now, what about for a wreck? Is there like a wreck? We do have a wreck area. It's a small

wreck area. It's got a basketball goal, chain link fence. That's basically it. That and then the room we was in, that's where they have the church and GED and MRT programs and all that stuff. Now the food situation, what's out like here? It sucks. But, I mean, it's jail food. You know, it's not like being able to go out to McDonald's or eating your mama's home cooking. I mean, do I eat it? Some of them, some of it's like real good.

They got a spicy chicken sandwich that beats Wendy's, believe it or not. Some stuff's a little rough to look at, you know. Yeah, so today's a Thursday. What's breakfast, lunch and dinner here today? I had to look at me and you, man. I couldn't tell you, for sure. I will tell you that every other Friday, I go out to a restaurant here in town and buy them a supper. And like last Friday they had Little Caesars.

Next Friday, not this Friday, next Friday they'll have a place called us. It's a back porch barbecue, pulled pork sandwiches. They get homemade banana pudding. They get potato salad and baked beans and cold drink every other week. We started doing that when COVID hit because everything was small businesses in the county was closing, down because so I got in contact with them, started doing that every other weekend and then just continue doing it. For one, the inmates like it and it helps having a real meal throwed in there even though it's even over the two weeks. I'll tell you a funny story on that. I was doing

rib-eye subs for them, ribby sub sandwiches from the local restaurant, and I got several grievances because there's too much fat on the steak. So I cut the steak. out, you know. The inmates were complaining about the steak. Yeah. That's a fellas. Yeah. Are you taking, like, orders, too?

No, I don't do orders. Okay. I was doing, I was playing, doing six or seven restaurants around surrounding, you know, Rock Castle County. The steak place is one of them. When I wrote me grievances and grievances, I got to answer them, you know. Yeah. You know, well, I won't serve your steak no more.

Sorry about having too much fat on your steak. So I went to them, I said, you know, I went around to sales, took a piece of paper, and I said, look, here's all the restaurants. I'm going to continue doing this, but I'm just going to drop it down to four restaurants. So you all tell me, by majority, vote on what restaurants you all want to keep. So Subway, well, we don't longer have Subway, I was going to Masson County. Subway, Wendy's, Little Caesars, and Back Porch Barbecue was the ones they decided to keep. And as from Wendy's, we do bacon ate our meals for everybody.

We'll do a breakfast meal every now then from Wendy's. but yeah that helps break it up now there's going to be some you know civilians who have never and had a loved one in the criminal justice system or any affiliation with it that are going to say you know why are we doing this for people that commit crimes because I get those comments all the time yeah what do you say to those people you never give up on them people I mean and people that's committing crimes

I mean yeah they committed a crime are you mad at them well if they stole from me I probably am mad at them am I going to help them yeah I'll still help them you know, drugs, you know, my deputies, and I hear it too outside of there, why are you doing that for them? I mean, hell, they, piece of shit. I mean, why are you helping them? Somebody's going to help them. I ain't going to give up on them.

I mean, if they ask me, hey, can you send me to rehab? Yeah, I'll call somebody for you. I ain't no problem, but I got plenty of contacts, you know. I mean, that's why I tell a lot of people you don't give up on them. Don't matter what they're, you know, there's a guy rob my dad. stole from him, brought him in jail. I treat him just like I did everybody else. He asked me for help.

I helped him, you know. Do you think all people are redeemable no matter what they are accused of doing or convicted of doing? Do you think in some way, whether they have life in prison or there is an end in sight, they're redeemable? Yep. Yep, I do. And why do you think that? The Lord? Yep.

He turned and give you faith to him, and he can turn everything around. And does that help you stay neutral, I guess, when people come in with, say, a heinous crime, like a sex offender, where the world hates, but you still have to do your job to protect them? Yep. Does that keep you neutral? Yeah, I'd say so, yeah. Yeah. And I tell this, you know, my deputies and people come in, you know, my new hires, just like sex offenders, like you said, yeah, I don't agree with what they did. You know, if they asked me, can I help them get into rehab for, you?

you know, their drug addiction, and yeah, I still will. I mean, I don't look in my deputies, some of the deputies to you. I don't sure if all of them does this, but, you know, when somebody's being booked in, we put their charges in. We don't look at them after that at their charges. We look at at you, you know, we look at back, call you by your name, and look at you for who you are. We don't look, go back and say, oh, let's see, he asked for,

oh, no, I ain't going to help him, man, look why he's charged with. I mean, I don't train them to be like that, and I don't believe none of my staff's like it. Yeah. Now, I've encountered some inmates, like in my prison journey that are just so hard-headed against prison officials, correctional officials because they've had negative experiences with law enforcement and because they're in prison because they got caught by law enforcement, how do you kind of break down that barrier with them to show that, hey, I'm not the one that put you in prison, but I am the one that is here, you know, to keep you here and work towards that.

many of times and I say look I ain't that little cock-sucker that put you in here so you ain't don't even yelling at me I said while you're here though I'll help you get you know if there's something you need I can help you get that you know if I can't do it I'll try and get you somebody that can you know that is a big thing that my deputies face people come in and they're mad officer leaves and then they turn that aggression toward booking officer you know we set them you know they're sent down we sit down with them talk to them say look man there's no reason to be mad at us. Like you said, we didn't bring you in here.

All we're here to do our job, book you in, keep you safe, get you a bond, and hopefully we can get you out of here. You know, other than, you know, if you got questions between now and then, ask us if we can answer them for you, we will. But until then, I mean, you're going to have to respect us.

We'll respect you. And I think from the inmates' perspective, I think sometimes we lose sight of that person that put us in prison, like a law enforcement officer, was literally just doing their job. And they have a family to provide for and they're going.

And I think there's a lot of that. It's not the person that may be snitched on you or turned you in. But they had to blame somebody. Most of them, they don't take the blame for their self. They won't blame you for bringing them to jail. I mean, it's your fault. It's my fault that they're, you know,

some people get mad and fussed at me. You know, I don't know if they're taking it out on me that thinking it's my fault that they're here. You know, some people, I'm sure there's somebody down there that's probably mad at. me. I don't know why, but, you know, listen to phone calls. They, you know, tell lies about me and say, he's keeping me in here for no reason. He called the judge. I ain't calling a judge, for one, ain't. Why would I call the judge to tell a judge not to bond you out? I have no,

I know I won't do that. Never have done that. Yeah. But. Now, how often do you see individuals come in, say they just got arrested? They're waiting to go through the court proceedings. Haven't been sentenced yet. How many do you see actually change? for the better by the time they get sentenced and they do get a, you know, a lengthy prison sentence and maybe they needed a second chance at that point and didn't need that sentence to kind of change because they already changed. Yeah. I've seen a few. I mean, I don't know how to put a percentage on it. I've probably seen less than 50 that's actually come in and changed and, you know, 50% that's got probably half. I'd say it's come in and changed, got out and has even seen some

has even started their own business and still thriving today, that when I got them, I mean, people, today was worse or the worst, and they had the biggest dope charges, PFOs and everything like that, and they do my time here, and they go to prison, they get out, and they message me, hey, man, I'm out. How you doing? I just want to say, thank you. How you doing?

I'm good. And then later on, months down the road, you see that, hey, man, here, send me a picture. I've had them send me a picture of their checks. Hey, look here, I got paid for them. first time. I'm like, great. Then they send me a picture of a car that they bought. And they send me a picture of their new business logo. I'm like, man, that's awesome. I said, keep doing good, man, you know. Now in a facility like this, our inmates able to earn money in any way? No. But the Department of Corrections pays them if they're working very little.

13 cents, 15 cents, something like that very, I can't remember exactly. It ain't much. So there are job availities here? If they get out to go on work release, yeah. So you do run a work release program here, too? Is that a separate staff load that you have for that, too? It's county employees. They don't work under me. They work for the county. That Department of Corrections trains for them to be able to take out the inmates.

Now, is you're, like, the person you report to, like the city council or the mayor? What's the structure of that? The judge for the county. Okay. So you're under the judge. Well, no, I mean, I don't. There's nobody who, I ain't trying to brag or nothing. There ain't nobody above me.

I mean, I work along with the judge. Gotcha. You know, he's a judge of the county, and he's the one that signs our paycheck, signs mine too, but he lets me run to jail. You know, I ain't never had an issue. Me and he's got a great relationship. I ain't never had an issue with him on anything. If I go to him, if ideas, he comes with ideas,

we talk it out, and I implement him. He is over the county employees that take my inmates out, but he lets let's me pick the ones that take them out you know you don't just send me somebody that's no good

you know and then we monitor them do worksite checks and if there's any issue that I go to him and say look he can't take them out no more he cuts them out

and replaces them with somebody else but there's nobody actually above me he can't he can't fire me or tell me what to do you represent the people the people that elected you.

Yes, sir. How often is the election? Four years. Four years, okay. Because I know in some states, I think it's two. Yeah. And I wonder how effective that is to keep, you know, every two years. Yeah, for my position, it's every four years.

Now, I think the clerks ever eight, the mayor, every two or something. I don't know. There's all different kinds of, I can't keep them up except for my own. That's only one I'm worried about. Yeah. Now, is there, does the sheriff have his own jail and facility, too? No, there's, the sheriffs ain't over any jails. Okay. It's all the elect, the Kentucky elects, their jailers.

So in some states, it's the sheriff elected. Is the sheriff elected in the state? He just appointed over it. Okay. Yeah, they just run the facility. Do you think the country will ever be streamlined, like, across every state or no? Do you think it's always going to be, like? It's always going to be different, I'd say.

Do you feel like that makes the criminal job? justice system tougher because there's just, I don't know, like I feel like everything's different. It is different. And in this county, which I don't understand this, I've seen it ever since I started here, we have the same judges that's in Plaskey County, okay? People can do the same crime in Rock Castle County that they do in Plasky. They get more time in Plaskey than they do in Rock Castle. And I have no idea it's the same judges. I don't understand the difference and why everything's different like that. Yeah, everything should be the same. My opinion, I mean, if drug trafficking is this much time, it should be that much time all around. I would think, I don't know why it's different.

Yeah, I mean, that brings up a great point too because we were downstairs at the pre-release program you were running and someone had mentioned that, you know, what the programs you're offering here, they don't get that same treatment in another jail. Yeah, I think some jails just don't, I don't know which one, but I'm sure they're some of some that just don't let them in. There's fear of security, you know, issues like, oh, they're going to bring something into the jail. You know, we can't screen all them people.

I'm pretty sure a lot of jails wouldn't let. I don't know how many people down there in that room. Probably won't let 10 people in facility. For security reason to be the only thing. And, you know, this has happened in my experience. I've had programs coming in and catch it on audience. You know, we monitor phone calls, videos a lot. Hear them say, hey, such, such group comes in,

start going to church there and ask if you can come in with a church group, you know, boyfriends, girlfriends, husbands, and wives, and, you know, they set that up, you know, and that happens. You know, the church group comes in, they're like, we're going to bring an extra guest. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. Well, they bring that, you know, person's spouse in, you know. So, I mean, they do set stuff like that.

That does happen, you know, then they will find a way to run contraband in there. So we try to stay. I try to monitor who comes in here, and we try to pay attention to the phone calls daily and video and try to make sure nothing like that is coming. That is, I've got three people, including myself, it does that. on a daily basis. And you have to tell the ingenious thing you did with the shoes that you were telling us. Oh, yeah.

I've never heard of that before. Yeah, well, when I started before, I would switch my tennis, or my work boots I'd come in with with inmate shoes just to try to sneak. And I would crawl sometimes down the state hallway and try to peep into sales or windows and catch them with contraband, you know, because they know when I started here, I didn't have cameras. I think I had camera on the Sallygate area. I had nothing in the sales.

Now, I'll show you my layout on my cameras. That's something else I implemented in. Cameras are, I basically don't think. I'm sure I got a blind spot somewhere, but I try to put a camera everywhere that's, I can zoom in. I mean, it's amazing the camera footage or the videos and stuff, quality of you just have to see it. But yeah, going back, I'd switch my shoes,

put on the inmate sandals or shoes that they had and try to sneak because you can't hear them. And I don't know how they figured out my damn feet sand. when I walked, but they knew when I was walking down the hallway. You know, or like I told you too, that work release would be out working. They'd be a work release inmate inside the sale. Before the other crew come in, I'd take him out, and I'd get on his bunk, cover up with the blanket. Workplace would come in, and guards would leave, you know, guards knew I was in there.

And then they'd sit down and start getting their contraband out, tobacco out, you know, and then they get on the table because I'd be watching them through the blanket. they get everything on table, I'd just get up out of the bed and walk over and say, thank you, fellas. And, you know, like, oh, man, seriously? I'm like, you know, and then, you know, that's just, I don't know. They always, they always, always, always up to something and I always tried, like they said, I'll tell them it's like chess, you know, you're all going to make a move.

I got to try to make a move to capture that palm from you, you know. Why do you think that there are facilities that don't have cameras? Like, I've noticed in the feds, there's a, there's a lot of lines of, It's silly, don't have a camera. You need to get cameras. Yeah. Because the inmates know where the blind spots are. They know where there ain't no cameras.

They know what guards don't pay attention to cameras. And that's when they set up everything. I mean, it's just, I will do learn that over my years. I mean, they're very smart. I feel like it almost promotes violence to not have them. Well, yeah, because they know they can get away with it. All I got do is say, no, I didn't do nothing. You ain't got no evidence of them doing anything.

Ain't got no video. And you go to Commonwealth, Kentucky, then that somebody over in the assault. You got video footage? Nope. So, I mean, why you do then? But you do have, I guess, the guard's word against the inmates, which the guard usually wins on? Yes and no. I mean, I've had, since I've been jailed or had the issues come up or guard done instant reports on what happened.

And when I go back and watch video, I've got audio too. Just not have audio. I hear and see it at all. I mean, what deputy wrote in his incident report ain't what happened. You know, I mean, it's... That holds officers accountable. Exactly. You know, when I put this new system in, you know, I told them, you know, audio and video,

you know, I ain't here to try to catch you doing anything wrong. I'm here to protect you and the inmates. But you have to remember what you say reflects, you know, your actions. You can't tell somebody. that you're going to fucking kill him and then walk over and smack him and then he wants to file thought charges on you and I take out front of the judge

when you said that you threatened him and then you went over and smacked him well you're in trouble I mean you can't say you didn't say it and when you filling out your reports now you have to put down what's actually say it because you can hear word for word now on the topic of cameras

what do you think about shows like 60 days in? Because that's mainly with county jails and facilities like this that they approach. You know my true opinion on that? Yeah. I think it's set up. You think it's set up? And why do you think it's not real? I think it's just, well, I've watched that, and I'm like, there's no way that that can be happening,

and then people not know it. You know, it just seemed like it's staged. Now, it might not be, but I've tried to watch it, and it just seems fake. It don't seem legit. Now, don't the NME. have to sign waivers? Yes. Do you think that's across every state?

Should. I would assume it is now. I'm sure. So they're going to know that some type that probably a show like 60 days in is being filmed there. Yeah. And even just like the individuals, like I had a PI on my show that used to be a correctional officer. Yeah. They put him in undercover in there.

He only lasted a day and then he, you know, tapped out. Yeah. And wave them down the camera. I mean, they're making money, right? Yeah. They want him rating. So, I mean, they can stage. How do you feel about that, that those companies use, like, other?

another person's down. I'm just guessing probably what they're done. I don't know if somebody, they approach them, want to do it here in my jail. And they might say, you got like 12 inmates that you could, that would do this. You know, we'd bring them all up here in a room and they'd sit down and go over, hey, we're going to do this and this and this, this.

You know, it's like a set up movie production. Yeah. That's what I, you know, what I figure, you know. Like today, when I told them, you know, going to talk downstairs in the class and speak with you. one of them asked me, is it like 60 days in? I'm like, no, it's not going to do nothing like that. You know?

Yeah. But I think it was, it's being doing the jail stuff and being in it and seeing and listening and knowing. I just think it's rehearsed, I guess, in a way. Yeah, I kind of get that feeling too. I just don't know how realistic it actually is. Like you said, they have to sign something to know that they. Yeah. Or maybe they sign it after and then they just lower the footage.

They could not know who the, person is in there that's the snitch but they'd probably know that somebody's in there because hey we're filming 60 days in i mean they're not going to they can't not notice a big camera filming them you know and they ain't going to incriminate yourself on purpose now on an accident about saying hey i'm going to slash old dude's neck you know i mean they're not going to incriminate yourself yeah i didn't think about that i saw like in some shows they have the like the cameras they released that new show um maybe it was in arkansas i think where they released all the inmates in the pod with no security.

It's on Netflix. And they let them, you know, do their own thing for, it's like a trial, I think, for two or three weeks. Yeah. And they fixed the cameras and the cells, but they knew they were being recorded. It's like a, it's a jail experiment is what they were. You got to see that on Netflix.

I have to look at it. Do you watch any prison shows or anything like that? I watched prison break. I just started that. It's so good. It is so good. That's several years old, though. All right.

So great question. Is that realistic? Do you think that that could happen? Yes. You think that could have? Oh, yeah. Really. There's that many loopholes.

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Is there such thing as the perfect prison? Oh, I'd say not. I'd say not. I've got a paper I need to let you read. It's called the, I think it's called the duck. Have you heard of that? No. The prisoner wrote it.

It's how that he had set up his escape. From here? No, not from here. I think it might have been a federal prison. I don't know where. It says it all in that. But I've got it. And I just gave it to my deputies in the last meeting, let them read it, how they can.

I mean, I'm pretty sure it's a maximum security prison, but how he manipulated a guard to bring him a guard's uniform. I mean, it took months. It wasn't nothing to happen overnight. It took months. Had him bring him his own guard uniform, and he put it on and walked out the front door. Walked past captains, sergeants, everybody. They even checked him.

Bade him out. Yeah, it's, I think any prison can be broke out of any jail. Like what happened in Alabama with the female deputy. Yeah. That got that killer out. Yeah. Yeah. I guess when you always have staff, there's always a weak spot.

Always that weak spot. Yeah. Manage is a dangerous tool, my friend. Yeah. Now, I'd love for you to talk about the program that we witnessed today and to share what you've implemented in specifically that program because I thought it was incredible. Yeah, that was, what was it?

reentry program, as they call it. What it is, the first time it's ever been in Rockcastle County, first time it's been inside the jail itself downstairs. When an inmate is close to being, I think, 60 days being released, all these people, as you've seen downstairs, has all these connections. They can help them get jobs, cars, clothing, food, homes, help, rehab help, whatever that they need. stuff like that was never offered at all that I know of anywhere.

I don't know if other states are doing or not. Of course, when Elena messaged me, and I was like, yeah, sure, I mean, absolutely, yeah, whatever we can do to give them a chance to fresh start. Because some inmates, friends, some of my friends who have been in here, says, you know, I don't know what to do. I get out tomorrow. I said, you do? I said, well, good.

He said, well, that ain't good. He said, I ain't got no home or nowhere to go. All I got, so he's closed it in my property. He said, I don't know what two do, except four, go back the way I, you know, started, you know, using drugs and making money that way. You know, they didn't have resources back then. So that's why this program's come into the county, and everybody's on board. Nobody's benefiting anything from it. I'm not benefiting things from it.

You know, I don't want to benefit things from it. My benefit would be to see you when you release from here, when I'm out eating supper with my family, I look, and I see you over there eating supper with your family. that's my benefit. That's what I won't see coming out of this. What advice would you give to a parent or a spouse or a boyfriend or a girlfriend that has someone that they love and care about going into the criminal justice system for the first time that are worried about, you know, like the dangers or worried about how they can support them? What advice would you give to them? Support them. Yep. Be supportive of them and give them.

And my wife could tell you, when I started here, give them, when they come home, give them of a little breather at them because sometimes this job ain't cut up for everybody. I mean, you have to deal with a lot of issues that will drain you mentally, let alone physically, and when you go home, you're still wound up from your day at work, whether you had a fight, whether you had an OD that you had to say somebody's life, whether you had somebody take their life, you have to go home and give them a minute. If they need five minutes, ten minutes, give them in it, you know, just, and then be there if they got questions or want to talk about it, you know, ask them, and listen to them.

Awesome. Well, Nate, thank you so much, man, for inviting us in here and having this conversation. And, you know, it's been a real honor to come in here today. Well, thank you for having me, man. I'm glad you come by. Glad to meet you. Yeah, you too. What do you think about your first podcast ever?

That's pretty neat. I might know my woo energy now. It's not so bad. You know, we send it when you're up for a reelection, you know, put it on the bolted board or something. You know, people get an inside look at you. That starts in a year and a half. Okay, awesome.

Well, if you need anything, please reach out. You know, I'll come on your campaign trail. Awesome. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Of course, man.