Locked In with Ian Bick - Detoxing During Prison Sentence and Halfway House Struggles with Ian Bick | John Vibbert

Episode Date: August 13, 2023

Imagine giving your best friend the fentanyl that kills him. John Vibbert doesn’t have to imagine it. A single father with a lifetime of addiction and petty crime, John plead guilty to one count of distribution of heroin and fentanyl after he was charged in connection with the death of his best friend. For one year and one day, John did his time at Danbury Connecticut Correctional Facility before heading to a notorious halfway house, where he met podcast host Ian Bick. After coming back to society, John works every day to be a strong role model for his daughter. Thank you to FACTOR - America's #1 ready to eat meal kit - for sponsoring this episode. Go to: https://www.factor75.com/pages/podcas... and use code lockedin50 to get 50% off your first box. Connect with Ian Bick:  https://www.ianbick.com/ 00:00 Intro/Factor AD 02:17 Childhood 08:30 Partying 11:35 College  13:42 Start of Drug Abuse 19:44 Addiction leads him to being Arrested in North Carolina  21:28 Detoxing  23:17 Seven months in North Carolina State Prison  25:10 Moved to New York  27:30 Drug Usage Restarts  30:40 Friend overdosed and sent to prison  38:04 Factor 44:38 Prosecution  46:13 Relapsed before prison  48:35 Withdrawlthing in Prison  52:40 Life in Prison  1:04:45 Halfway House with Ian  1:14:23 Life Now as a Single father  1:19:04 Message  Subscribe to our membership program on YouTube to get early access to interviews, see behind the scenes photos, live chat with Ian & more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvVklIft6DMelVW18M0oBw/join Powered by Q29 Productions, LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Real California Milk. Welcome back to your favorite podcast, Locked in. On today's episode, I have John Vibbert here to tell his story about how an overdose that he was connected to lands him in a one-year stint in the Danbury, Connecticut federal prison. This story hits close to home because not only did I spend time in the Danbury, Connecticut federal prison, kind of near the same time he was serving, but we didn't actually meet in the prison itself.

we end up meeting at the halfway house after we're both released from prison. And in this episode, we dive in to our time in the halfway house. John has a great personality. You're really going to connect to a story. He's also a single father, just an all-around great guy. And the energy he's going to bring to this is awesome. So, guys, get ready for my interview with John Vibbert. You're going to love this one.

It's a little bit different. And we get to focus on what exactly is a federal halfway. house. Thank you to Factor for sponsoring today's episode. I honestly can't get over how good Factor Meals are. Factor delivers delicious, fresh, never frozen meals that are ready to heat and eat in just two minutes. You could support our show by heading to FactorMeals.com slash Lockedin 50 and use code Locked in 50 to get 50% off your order. Thank you guys for tuning in to Lockton. Thank you guys for the support. We've been in the top 200 podcasts for society and culture week over a week for the last couple months. Wouldn't be here without you guys today. The listeners on Spotify,

Apple, Amazon, the viewers on YouTube, everyone that views our short clips on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube shorts. It's all because of you guys that were at this level. If you guys could take a quick second as well and give us a like, a comment, subscribe, a share, and head over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcast and leave us a review. It's all I got for you guys today. I'll stop rambling over here. Enjoy my interview with John Vibbert. Welcome to Lockton, man. I hyped you up in the intro we recorded earlier, so I said, you know, you got a great personality, great guy, so you got to bring the energy to me on this one, right? Oh, Lord. You're putting the pressure.

of pressure. But John, thank you for making the drive out here and coming to the show. We've been meaning to do this for like months now since we started. And I had you written down on my notes. And then I was going through it the other day. I was like, you know what? Let me hit up John whenever we booked this a few weeks ago. So I'm glad we were able to find the time. Cool, cool. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So let's start at the beginning of your story. Where are you from? Where did you grow up? Fairfield, Connecticut. You know, I come from a good family and everything. You know, my parents got divorced, but that's relatively, you know, it's common and stuff. My forays into getting in trouble probably really started in high school, early in

high school. I think a lot of it came from like, maybe not boredom in like the classic sense of boredom, but just the mundane. not exciting me enough. So it was, you know, first with drinking and everything, I smoked cigarettes. I played football. I kind of like to live on the edge. And, and, uh, I think the first time I got arrested, I was 16. Wow, 16 years old. 16, yeah, there was a keg party. A keg party at high school? Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. Out in a soccer field. We used to carry the kegs out into the middle of the field. Yeah. And, uh, this was like common practice, you know, Friday and Saturday night, that's what we did.

And the police would come and everybody would run. And so this happened and I ran and they ran after me. Like, you know, probably about 50, 60 people got away. You were the one that got caught. One of us didn't, you know. And so my mom had to pick me up. Actually, my mom and my dad came. And the only thing that could really get them to agree is,

me getting in trouble. Did they like handcuff you and stuff too? Oh yeah they put me in the holding cell and everything. At 16. 16 charging a possession of alcohol. Did they like plead you out like it was like whatever probation or whatnot? Yeah I got like community service. Yeah. And I used to play basketball. I was a good basketball player and we had this gym in Fairfield. So I asked the guy there. I said can I do my community service? I'll keep the score or the basketball game and do the scoreboard and stuff. That's awesome. Were you an only child, too?

No, I have a full sister from both my mom and dad. Then I've got a half brother who, you know, I'm 43. My brother now is, let's see, he's 17 years younger than me. So he's 25, 26. I'm about almost my age. I'm 28 now. You're making me feel old. Well, when you met me, I was 24.

I was just getting out. Unbelievable, right? It's crazy. We were just talking about it, you know, 10 minutes. ago about how it's been four years since we saw each other. It's like a little reunion. Yeah. That's wild. Who are you closest to, like out of the siblings and your parents? My mom. Me and my mom are real tight, you know. I think that's how Italian families are. The boys stay with the mom, you know? Yeah. Me and my sister are cool. Me and my brother are cool.

I mean, there's a 17-year age difference. I think luckily from my brother, you know, while I was raising all this hell, he was, you know, going to elementary school and, you know, in Fairfield, Connecticut. It's like, you know, the first time I went to prison was in 2010 down in North Carolina. And I think it's a fair, a safe bet that my brother was the only kid at Fairfield Woods Middle School with a, with a sibling in prison, you know? Yeah. And I think he kind of like got, got the message at that young age, you know. If he was a little bit older, or just a couple years behind me, I think a lot of times people have, you know,

can negatively influence their siblings. But he now, he's a lieutenant in the Coast Guard. Oh, wow. He's a big shot. So he didn't follow your path? Not even close. Not even close. So what were, like, your aspirations as a kid?

Did you have, like, dreams, goals, visions, or anything at a young age? I wanted to play point guard for the Knicks, you know. But around about 11, that started to, I started to realize that may not be happening. I don't think I did. I think it's a common thread throughout my life, actually. I'm pretty good in the moment, you know. I'm pretty good. But setting long-term goals and stuff like that has never really been my thing, you know. And not everyone's like that. Not everyone can set long-term goals like that. No, no. I wasn't very good at school. I always did well on the tests and stuff, but I was just a terrible student. You know, I had a couple like learning disabilities. nothing wild or anything, but I think kind of by my nature, something like that, you know,

I'm not going to persevere over something like that. I'm going to go around and find a way to maximize what I'm good at, you know, or stick with what I'm good at. Yeah. And my childhood and stuff was cool. It was cool. You know, I got great family. I'm definitely the black sheep of the family.

You and me bull. Did you have a lot of friends in high school? I did. I did. You know, I played football. I was a pretty good football player. So I had my group of football friends I was real tight with. One of the jocks.

Kind of, but not like, I hung out with everybody, you know? I hung out with everybody. How would people describe you if we ask someone from your high school days? How do you think they would put a description on you? They'd probably say, oh, Lord. Oh, my God. Where do I start? But I was I think it's safe to say I was pretty unique and that you know I did hang out with some of the popular people and this and that

But that wasn't really my calling card I like to party that's you know that's really what it came down to Yeah who doesn't though in high school you're on the sports team you know yes Yeah but I think it was pretty evident in retrospect that Especially early on in those formative years that my the way that my body that my body reacts to alcohol. It's very different than the way that other people's bodies react to So you're a lightweight or? No, no. Far, well, in some sense, you know, I gave up drinking. I was probably about 24, 25 years old and, you know, I would go out to the bar and have like three drinks and be fully loaded and then have 13 more, you know? Really? Yeah, I think my body was so

excited to get the alcohol and those first couple drinks would really just prime my body up then I'd keep going, kicked out of the bar. So you don't drink at all anymore? No, no. For that, it's been that long. No. No, I had,

you know, we'll get into some of the drug problems I had and stuff, but about six, seven years ago, I had relapsed from, you know, I was a heroin addict and I started drinking one night. I went to my friend's house and just out of blue, he had a bottle tequila and I started drinking it. One shot, two shot, three shot. And I went back to my apartment and I think my roommate had called me a pussy over something. And I really wasn't having it,

you know, and I hit him and gave him a black guy. And he came at me with a knife and, you know, it was just wild, wild scene. He woke up the next day with the two. black eyes, you know? And I lost my phone in the snow. It was a snowstorm. I lost my phone. So then the next morning, I'm like, I got to go buy a phone. So I'm walking to the Boost Mobile store in Black Rock in Bridgeport, you like turn this corner

and there's a liquor store right there. And, you know, this is the first time I drank in probably about 10 years, 11 years. All this mayhem happens. And I turned that corner and saw that liquor store. or my mind immediately went to, yeah, I could, you know, I could really use a drink right now, you know. And quickly, something came about me like, oh, my God, that's a terrible idea, you know. And I haven't had a drink since then.

Isn't it crazy how our minds, like, react to that? Like, it brings you to certain moments. Like, even at our lowest points like that, like, I remember being in prison, it'll flash back to, like, the most random thing which will remind me of something. and it kind of like connects. I don't know. It's just like strange. Absolutely.

You know, for me there's like that aspect of euphoria from the drugs and the alcohol. Yeah. And my mind can push out all the damage and all the bad stuff. And I'll just get this flash of like, oh, you know, that was fantastic. This is going to be great. Yeah. With 20 years of hard evidence to the contrary. So did you go to college after high school?

I went to a couple. I went to, um, A community college for one year, took a few classes. I graduated high school with like a 1.9 GPA, but then I took my SATs. And at the time, the SATs was like, I had a 1600 and I got an 1130 and I had gotten something like a 630 on the math. I think I got 630 math and 500 verbal. Is that good or bad?

It's not good in the sense that my guidance counselor was like, with the math classes you've taken it's virtually impossible to get a 630 in math you know but um so i always i'm good with arithmetic i could always think but man i had trouble in school so i went to the community college and uh that didn't last long and i went up to the school in upstate vermont um i'm a big grateful dead fan and this was all my grateful dead people up there unbeknownst to me when i signed up to go up there and uh i got locked in with this truly wild group of people up there. And it was right at home. That lasted a year. So, you know, I went to college. I went in and out of college, but never got a degree or anything. So it never graduated college?

No, no. Did you have like a major when you went in or you were just going to go? I, at one point, it was like a journalism slash creative writing major. What I really wanted to do was actually, you know what you asked me before, what did I want to do? I wanted to cover sports, I'm a big professional sports fan and that's really what I wanted in hindsight I hadn't thought about that in years but that's what I wanted to do I wanted to be a sports reporter you know

Isn't it cool to like sit down and reminisce Because no one ever asks us about like In this type of setting Unless you like you just don't talk about it You meet someone for the first time You're not talking about your childhood Unless it's like a girlfriend But like no one's like sitting down

Talking about like emotions and feelings And I don't know It's always interesting and fascinating to see where someone's came from and how it unravels over time. So when does the drug use start? Well, like I had explained before, there was clear alcohol problems. I was a wild drinker. And then it was cocaine and LSD and this and that.

There was big problems with the cocaine and stuff. I think really when the legal problems started coming in, around 26 years old or so, 25. I went out to the bar and I wasn't allowed at bars. I wasn't allowed anywhere. And this dude from my hometown came up to me at the bar and was like, you need to chill out, you know? And he gave me a bag of heroin.

He tells you to chill out and gives you heroin. Well, I sniffed it. You could sniff heroin? You could sniff it, yeah. Oh, bad. Generally, that's how people start. I sniff in it. Okay.

And I did that bag of heroin. I had like two drinks. I might not even finish the second drink. My whole body was relaxed. I was like, holy cow. You know, like I went to bed at night, which was something that didn't happen often when I drank. And I woke up the next day. It was like, I have found my solution, you know?

Yeah. So I started doing that. And like, you know, I go out to the bar and the girls I went to high school with, you're like, oh, my God, this is like having the old John back. This is great. What are like the effects of mixing that with alcohol or are you stopping alcohol to do this? Basically, the heroin supplanted the alcohol, you know. It just took over. that became its own beast at that point in time.

And how are you paying for it? Do you have a job? What are you doing for work? Back then, I would, you know, I had like little construction jobs and this and that. And I always had a little, I could always hustle a little bit, find a gig here, a gig there, or a lot of times, like I said, I grew up in Fairfield. There's a lot of people I grew up with that maybe weren't so keen on going and buying their own drugs. Yeah.

And I was not scared, you know, so I'd kind of be the, everybody gives me $200 and I go round up what needs to be rounded up. And you get the free drugs out of it? Exactly, exactly. Maybe some cigarette money and beer money. Were you living on your own? Let's see. I think when I started with the heroin I was, I was living in BlackRock with one of my friends. And to show you the effects, like I lived with my buddy, probably one of my best friends, Nick.

And surely thereafter, I couldn't pay the rent. So one of our other friends moved in. Now, Nick, he liked to sell drugs as well, not heroin, really, but like pills and weed. And probably about three weeks after I moved out, the house got raided by the police. It's like. So does a new roommate get in trouble too? He didn't really. The guy Nick kind of owned up to it.

I think they had a pretty good idea of what they were walking into and who they were really trying to. to get. Do you think that if you still stayed there, that could have saved you and maybe helped you? No, I wouldn't have changed anything. No, you know, I think like there's a lot of wreckage in my past and, but I think like a lot of that was like necessary steps, you know? No. Um, it leads to where I'm at now, which is a pretty cool place, you know? Where's your family during this time? Are they trying to help you at all? Are they stepping in like your sister, your mom, your dad? mom and dad yeah i think the first time i went to rehab i was probably like 27 and uh i used to work at this bar as a bouncer that was another one of my house i'd be a bouncer and this guy

i worked with ronnie it was like you'd be a good bouncer i'd hire you back of the day yeah yeah despite my size i'm not really aggressive though that that was the one issue i had yeah but you look intimidating that's if i look intimidating this dude i worked with ronnie was this bald he was kind of kind of ugly dude bald huge big strong guy i mean you see him from a mile away and be like man i'm not fucking with that guy yeah and uh he got mad at me i think he didn't like that i did heroin and uh he took like i had a bunch of cocaine to sell or something and he took it from me and uh so the next morning i went up to where he was living at his grandma's house was like you know give me money or give me the drugs and we got he said I'll take you to go get it we got in his Jeep

he's driving and when it became evident that he wasn't giving me anything I turned around and I hit him like as soon as I did it I was like oh my god I can't believe I just did that the car swerved off the road and hit the curb and he got on top of me and boom boom boom and uh I got back to where I was staying in blackrock and bridgeboard at the time and I called my dad I said dad I think I need to go to rehab you know I remember looking down like I was covered in blood, you know, some of mine, some of his. And I strolled into rehab, bloody and beat up. So what happened? Why wasn't that like the end of the story? You get clean and life is good? It's really just not that simple, you know? Like the reasons why I ended up

doing heroin and drinking like that are a little bit deeper seated than like, I want to go out and have a good time and have a few drinks tonight, you know? Like, I was basically like, I was basically like maladjusted to life where you know and then you reach a certain point where you're in 26 27 years old you have some friends that are having kids and some friends that are getting married and I can't stop drinking and doing drugs I went to the I went to the rehab fighting too I wanted I I I knew what I was doing didn't really work and was a path towards disaster but like this whole like you know finding God and this and that that they preach at rehab really was not appealing to me at that time and to a large extent even now you know um when i went you know i went

in and out and i think i i think i realized after i got out i was i smoked weed i think but i was clean probably from heroin probably for about eight months nine months and uh i started going again and uh i went to rehab again i met a girl from north carolina and uh she was a real piece of work. So we planned I was going to go down there and hang out with her. And I did. I brought a whole bunch of dope with me and everything. And this is 2009 probably. To sell the doper? Not really. I mean, I needed it at that point in time. But like if there was somebody around that wanted to give me 30 bucks for a bag that you get in the Bronx for $6. You know, I give it to And how old were you in 2009?

29. 29. So you go down, you're trying to start like a new life with this girl. No, not even. I just want to go spend two weeks. Oh, that's it. You're... Okay, so you go there, what happened? So we party. The first night's great. Everything goes cool with me and her. And then the next morning, knock on the door and she was on probation. Someone that I had given one of the bags of dope to went to the police. And they came in, they could search her house, dogs, the whole nine. And they arrest me, with 76 bags of heroin.

You had 76 bags of heroin on you? Yeah. Yeah. How are you not still at jail right now? I don't understand. Well, first, I wasn't really a drug dealer, you know? Yeah. I've got the, now the one we'll get into later.

I've got these two convictions for selling heroin. I didn't even realize you had the first one. I don't think anyone really knows about that. No, probably. You know, it's kind of out of sight, out of mind. Yeah. But. So they raid the place they arrest you?

what happens. I go into the local county jail and just kind of got, you know, when you're doing heroin, you get sick when you stop. I've seen guys detox from heroin. It's bad. Yeah, it's brutal. It's brutal. So they put me in this little room by myself and, oh, it was brutal. I remember they had the nurse from down south. I had brought with me this subutex it's called, which is like medication that helps with the detox. So I had a prescription for it and I was all gung-ho. Then at the jail, they were going to give me this prescription. And I'm telling the lady when she comes in to check on me, like, really, I just need my medicine. And she was this southern lady.

And she's, I'll give you your medicine. And she comes in with a Bible and chucks it on my bed. So that's all the medicine you need. Get yourself better. So, man, if I had the energy, I would have gotten up and screamed, you know? But eventually my mom came down and bonded me out. And how was that conversation? Brutal.

Brutal. There's is, we, she came down, flew down to North Carolina. We flew back. You know, it's just a brutal couple of days. We walk into my mom's house. And I'm telling you, we weren't there 15 minutes. And it starts thundered and lightning. And she's got this like 75 foot tulip tree in the front yard.

It dropped a branch down and broke the picture window in front of the house. You know, I said I'm not too critical. about the idea of God and everything, but I was kind of looking up at that point, like, holy shit. Oh, wow. Yeah, so it was brutal all around. And did you talk to the girl that you went down there with it all again? Yeah, yeah, we stayed cool.

You know, I was so immature and stuff that I would latch on to things like that, you know, the beautiful girl with the southern accent and stuff like that. And so, yeah, so I eventually had to go to court and everything. and I went and did. I think it was seven months. You did seven months on a North Carolina jail? North Carolina State Prison. What was that like?

You know, it was to tell you that, this is going to sound crazy coming out of my mouth, but it was kind of laid back, you know? Really? In North Carolina, it was just chill? It kind of was in a large sense. I mean, the county jail sucked. It was terrible.

But they sent me down in Wilmington, North Carolina. There was like an airport next door, so they always had these air shows. And it was, what they deem a camp, you know. So you're a low security. Green clothes, yeah. And, you know, you get a job in the kitchen and sell a little food.

Down there, it was different down there than like in the federal prison where. Yeah, we're going to get into all the federal prison stuff. That's the day day. Were you clean when you were in the North Carolina prison? Or were you doing drugs inside? No, I never really got into the whole doing drugs inside thing. I didn't, I'm not, I'm not really built for prison. Like, some people could go to prison and be,

real industrious and stuff and make money and have these kind of hustles and that kind of hustles. I'm really not. You're just chill. No, yeah, I don't go. You go with the flow. Yeah, I don't have it in me to do all that, you know. It's so crazy that you went to North Carolina. You ended up staying there in prison.

Yeah, it was brutal. You went on a two-week trip and you got caught up there. Yeah, it was terrible. It's like the people that, like, go overseas to like different countries and then get caught with something and they're ending their whole life changes because they're doing like a jail sentence. Like that, hey, what's that? Locked up abroad.

Yeah, you're just doing it at a different state. Yeah. Do you think a lot of your troubles came from being like lost in life, not having purpose and figuring what you wanted to do? Absolutely. Absolutely. I think sometimes my mind moves faster than my body. So like I would have ambitions, you know, but a difficult time fulfilling them, you know.

And that's got to be tough. Just like being at that age because you're almost 30 at that point. Yeah. So when you finally get out, what's your mindset? Well, prior to that, I had gotten this job. I moved to New York, and I got this job with the Plumbers Union in New York, New York City. This is right after North Carolina prison? Actually, I think I got an apprenticeship slightly before.

Yeah, because I was working in New York when I got arrested. I took two weeks off from work and never came back. So, like, a week or maybe a month before I got out of North Carolina, I got in contact with the union, and they took me back in, which was a big thing, you know. They had like this CAD program where they took like the four top math students from the 250 apprentices and put them in this special computer animated design program. And, you know, they made a big deal about it. And, you know, I was a heroin addict, you know, and they have this big meeting.

And they're like, so the four people that get in, David, Almodova, Danny Fortini. and then they called out John Vibber and the whole room was like this dude how the hell did he guy but I had one of the top mass scores so I was doing like really well in that even as a full on heroin addict

but you went right back into heroin when you got out yeah month a month and a half later why like don't you think your body was adjusted to being clean or well there's this big fallacy that addicts tell themselves

like this time's gonna be different like I'm gonna do it once like a gambler's mind Yeah, exactly, exactly. Or like, I'm just going to do it on the weekends, you know? And how did you start? Then, to tell you the truth, I don't even really remember, but I'm sure, you know, I was living in the Bronx. And the Bronx is kind of like the East Coast heroin capital, you know? So access wasn't an issue. And I was getting paychecks and I was just kind of living in the Bronx without any friends or anything. Really the only people I knew were the people I bought drugs from.

So, you know, I think for a while I went to some meetings or something. And but then it just, you know, like a, like a glove fitting onto a hand. I just found my way back, you know. Wow. So you're doing this. How long are you just like living, like in limbo doing drugs working until like things go south again? Um, it's, well, things went south. about every three and a half weeks for me. But they didn't land in a federal prison. No, no. So

I'm trying to think what the, so I went to rehab. Actually, I met this girl. And always starts with a girl. Absolutely. They're typically younger than me, you know. They're into the younger ones. Well, I was. And she lived in Fairfield. So I was living in the Bronx. And I moved back up to Connecticut was commuting to New York and stuff, which is a, it's a job unto itself, you know, spending three and a half hours a week, a day on a train, you know, an hour 30 there, hour 30 back. And so I moved into this girl's house and she was young. She's actually since deceased. She had already been doing drugs long before me. But I moved into her mom's house and lived in the basement. And living in Connecticut was tough.

for me because like I could rather I could wrestle myself up to get from the Bronx to Manhattan to go to work with a beautiful girl lying in bed next to me and the idea of like three and a half hours on a train and going to work all day not going to work became like a pretty easy decision to make on a lot of occasions so I did and then we reached a point actually with her I think I remember having a conversation with her where I was like, you know, for me at 30 years old, 31 years old, I think at 33 at this time, like it's kind of cool to like just lay in bed with you and do drugs and this and that. But like you're 21 years old. Like you doing drugs all day and laying in bed with me. Like that's really not that cool, you know? And I went to treatment. And, uh, I went to treatment. And, uh, in Connecticut. And the idea was I'd get clean and her and I would stay together and stuff. And I got clean for quite some time a few years after that.

She didn't. And we kind of just drifted apart. My cousin owned a sober house. I went and lived at the sober house. He had an east in Connecticut. So a part of you always was trying to get better? Yeah. I was like, it's hard to describe because I was a full on heroin addict,

but it wasn't like holding the sign on the side of the street. Like I always wanted to have a job. A functional. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I remember years later, you know, I was at an Alcoholics anonymous meeting somewhere and someone said, you know, we all just want to drink like a gentleman. And I told the girl after, I said, yeah, you know, I always kind of wanted to smoke crack like a gentleman, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. So then, you know, like I said, I'm big into the Grateful Dead. So I had a lot of Grateful Dead friends and moving down the line a little bit. So I was 33, 34, when I got clean, I relapsed when I was about 36, 37. And my best friend had texted me that he was coming back from Pennsylvania. And he was dope sick. I know where he could get a few bags of dope.

Oh, man. Which I did. So I responded on text, beep, beep, beep. Yeah, no problem. Come, warming when you're close. You were going to give him the dope? Well, we were going to go get it. Okay.

You know, and so I did. He was eating pizza with his girlfriend, and I went and, you know, they didn't want to leave the pizza place. So he gave me the money. I went and got it. He gave me a few bad. I gave him, you know, we gave each other a hug, so we'll talk soon. This is like really my best friend, you know.

And he went home and the next morning I got a call that he had passed away. Wow. Yeah. And that's kind of where the whole federal prison thing starts kicking in. So he overdoses on the drugs that you picked up for him? By and large. I mean, there's some gray area because there was other partying going on. But as far as the United States Department of Justice.

They needed a fall guy, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Dude, that's terrible, man. I'm sorry. It was brutal. It was brutal, you know? What's the first thing that goes on in your mind when you get that call? You know, it's really hard to...

The thing about being a heroin addict is, like, no matter what's going on in the world, the first thought in your mind is, I need to do a shot of dope, you know? After that, I think it was almost like... I mean, I love this dude. I'm devastated by it. But there's like this, a level of selfishness that kicks in where like you just try to put it out of your mind, which is an impossible task, an impossible task. I remember his mom called me that day and, you know, I'm at work and I just get a text from a call from his girlfriend that he died. And his mom calls, you know, I'm three quarters high, trying to get high, you know, the three hours when I got at work, trying not to be.

to let my boss know any of this is going on. And then my best friend's mom calls and, you know, how do you have those conversations, you know? What does she say to you? Does she know that you were involved? Yeah. Okay. Is she blaming you? Is she mad? Surprisingly enough, I mean, she was devastated, you know, but I don't think her anger was really towards me. Now, a lot of our mutual friends, that wasn't necessarily the case, you know. But, you know, she was devastating. devastated and it was a terrible phone call that you know and I get a lot of anxiety thinking about about you know her and my friend Sean's you know sister his dad and stuff well eventually when I had the court dates and stuff you know I got yeah how do they arrest you over this how does it come

back to you what what exactly happens I read somewhere about you know you getting pulled over to and a car this was a separate one Oh, that was a separate incident. Okay. So on this FBI arrest, what happens? So that was, I think, believe it was Memorial Day weekend of 2016. How long after? Nearly a calendar year. Okay. Which after he got, after he passed away, I went into treatment and it didn't take, you know, and I came back out and was running around for like two months. And me and this other girl got pulled over and I had, you know, drugs. in the car and we got like a little stupid state charge and somewhere in between

there that the DEA had showed up at my mom's house like asking questions about me and she kind of gave him the run around like I don't know you know he's out he's doing his thing and I never really heard from them again for a while so when I got arrested on that state charge I went to court and I was fully expecting someone from the feds to be there to speak with me. And they didn't, you know. And then shortly after that, again, that kind of like, unfortunately,

using his death as a springboard somewhat, I got clean. You know, I took methadone and stuff, but I stopped doing all drugs. And I met a girl. She moved in with me. I got her pregnant. And not two months after I find out

I'm going to have a kid, the DEA showed up at my mom's house again saying they had a warrant for my arrest. Why do they keep going to your mom's house? Well, because I get cheaper car insurance. So you're a registered? Oh, bad. Yeah. So your mom calls you to say you're under arrest?

Yeah, like he gave me the number. They're coming to get you. And so I called the guy and he's like, yeah, when you could come in a month. Monday. I remember at that point in time, it's like, holy shit, I'm having a kid. Thinking about running? No, no, I'm not built for that, you know. That wouldn't last. That just multiplies my, some people could do it and get away with it. Not me. You're just too laid back. Yeah, yeah. So do you turn yourself in or do you got actually, do they not follow through and they find you and arrest you?

No, so they said we're going to, you got to come into court, the federal courthouse in New Haven. I forget whether they said this was probably a Friday, either Monday or Tuesday. So I went and did that, and I guess they call that your arraignment maybe. So you got to self-surrender right there? Yeah, I got out. You know, I went out on bond. And can you talk about the bond in the federal system? It's not like a usual bond.

You didn't have to pay anything. No, no. I think it was just basically they could take my family's house if I didn't show up. I think that was by and large what the conditions were. So you just had a signer, signed for whatever, and then that was it? Yeah, and then, like, my mom had to attest that I'd be living with her and this and that. Are your parents, like, disappointed that this is happening again? Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely. What does your mom say to you? I mean, she has to be flabbergasted. You know, me and her are real tight. And, like I said, you know, I wasn't, I did some scumbes. things through the year, but I wasn't like a full-on scumbag drug addict. Like, there was redeeming qualities. You know, I remember one time at one of the rehabs, they asked my mom, they said, you know,

what's John like when he's doing heroin? And she told him it's kind of frightening. He comes over and mows the lawn and, you know, bring flowers and, you know, this superhuman strength that it gave me to just go, go, go, go. You're like the friendly giant when you're on drugs. when you're on drugs. Yeah, until I run out. Until you run out, then you're like a bad man.

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What's a conversation with your lawyer like? So they gave me this lawyer at first who said that he thought it was a flimsy case and we should take it to trial. And I don't know whether thankfully or not. They got a new public defender who was like, actually she's like a really good lawyer. And I think she had ambitions to move up the change. So working as a public defender was kind of her pathway to that. And the thought was that there was a fair chance that I would get home confinement or probation on the charge.

I mean, it was pretty evident that I wasn't like a drug dealer and that I had a drug problem. There was no real evidence against me. I mean, there was like these text messages, and then my friend's girlfriend, you know, made some statements and everything. And so there was some optimism. You know, I was doing really good, too. I was, like, clean.

Like I said, you know, I used to chair. I wouldn't call them AA meetings, but I used to go into, like, treatment centers and sit down and help people and talk to people and stuff. Like, I was really helping out. I was doing pretty good. I had my child coming. Yeah. And there was some optimism that I would get that, not have to be, go away to prison.

Couldn't you go through the federal drug court too? Because that was an option. It kind of was, but. Or is it because of your criminal history that you couldn't get into it? I think that might have played a part in it. And I think, too, that there was this, the sentencing guidelines were only, like nine to 16 months or something. I forget the exact number, but it was in that range. And what exactly were you charged with anyways? Because this isn't manslaughter, right? No, which was a big fear of mine when I originally found out I was getting arrested. I was just charged with possession with intent to distribute heroin and fentanyl. So it is probably a bit of a

stretch that they were looking for on this. Absolutely. So like it was pretty clear that I gave him heroin. And like, you could reasonably deduct that. Now, whether the fentanyl that was in his system came from me is really an up in the air question because there was other drugs he was using and stuff. And you also weren't the one selling it. Like, you weren't this big dealer that was going looking. It's your best friend. He hits you up to do something.

That would be like if my friend hits me up, hey, can you grab something? Yeah, I'm going to go get it for him. Like anything, you know, if a friend asks for a favor. Yeah. There's like this line of demarcation, you know, where like, um, People that never really were involved with drug addiction and heroin addiction would look at what I did getting that for him as like an almighty sin, you know. No. But generally, if when he texted me that, if I was to write back like, no, you know, that's not good for you.

I don't want to be a part of you doing this. He would be like, shut the fuck up, you know? Get me the shit. You're fucking kidding me, you know? Which doesn't excuse or lessen it. It's just the reality. When you live in a life like that, the action that I took that ended up getting arrested for was really a benign action from my perspective at that point in time. Obviously, the result was catastrophic.

Is his death a motivator for you now to not relapse or be involved with any type of drug use? I don't know if I would word it exactly like that, but I got his initials tattooed on my arm. my daughter's middle name is his last name like I love to do you know he's a big part of my life you know and I don't know if it's a motivation you know I think the reason why I don't use drugs now is I've had this basically this like personality shift

where it was almost for a long period of time I had no choice but to do it like it was a compulsion you know I compulsively it was just like breathe waking up going to sleep and that cycle has been broken and some changes were made in my life and quite simply i don't obsess over it and uh i not only do i not compulsively use drugs i really have no interest in it to tell you to tell you the truth yeah so you um you end up pleading guilty to this I did. I did. So I pled guilty and then they go to the sentencing and I was pissed. They were like training one of the prosecutors. So they put this like 26 year old girl up there who was like

stuttering and stuff and she's really had sentencing. Oh, I was so pissed, you know. And who is your judge? Thompson. Okay. Is he still a judge now? I think he retired but he like works on certain cases. Okay. He wasn't bad, you know. The whole thing was kind of a little bit of like, I think what they wanted me to do, they thought they were going to arrest me, you know, put time on the table and get me to flip on somebody else. And you didn't have anyone to flip on or you didn't want to? It was the whole thing was just a, that's just a losing, you know.

I mean, I guess it crossed my mind maybe, but the, what's I said, the juice wasn't worth to squeeze, you know? It's a whole other set of headaches you set up to what, save the probation that I thought I was probably going to get. So do you speak at sentencing? I did. I was nervous. And do you say like you're clean, all the good things you're doing and whatnot? Absolutely. Absolutely. And what's the result? What do they do?

He gives me a year and a day, which allows me to get the good time off. That's why they give a year and a day. Yeah. So he had smack dab in the middle of the guy. You know, isn't it crazy that you got prison time, though? Like, you were turning your life around. If anything, that could derail you. If you weren't the type of person you are,

that could have derailed your whole progress. It did. It did. I was on methadone, like I had said. Yeah. And I relapse before I went into prison. Oh, you did relapse before prison. So, again, I had a baby.

My only child was born. and I had to get off the methadone to go to prison. And so I was getting off the methadone. It was just a task unto itself. Don't they give methadone prison or no? State prison. Oh, not the feds. Not the feds.

Okay. So what was that like to get off of it? It was brutal. And then I wanted to get dental work done before I went in. And I had a tooth that I needed to get yanked out. And I guess novocaine doesn't really work for me. It's a thing that runs in my family. And I guess I have really strong roots in my teeth.

And I was coming off the methadone. I had like six weeks left till I go to prison. My baby's mom's driving me nuts. And they did like a four-hour tooth extraction. It was like the most brutal thing you ever went. You could possibly ever go through. And I got up at a dental chair and I said, fuck this. You know, I'm done with detox and I'm done with all this.

I'm just going to get high until I go in. So I got high for about six weeks before I went in. Wow. How long did you have to self-surrender three months? Three months, yeah. What's it like to self-surrender? And where do you self-surrender to? The Danbury Prison, I had to self-surrender.

Danbury, Connecticut, right? Where my hometown, yeah. Everybody thinks it's a country club, but it's far than that. I could tell you, I did a big shot of dope the morning that I was going to turn myself in. I mean, the brutal, the tough part of my, I keep kind of mentioning it on the side, but like, my daughter is such a massive part of my life now and even then, you know, I've always been very fond of kids and that's the tough part. Like, I could go hang out with a bunch of dudes and eat bad food and watch sports for a year and it sucks, but I could get by, you know. But being away from my kid, that, you know, that's a big issue, you know. Yeah. Big problem. So that day you self-surrender, what's it like to self-surrender to the men's Danbury, Connecticut federal prison? Well, at the time, one of the unique things about heroin addiction is like, no matter what's going on in your life, if you could scrape together enough money to get good and high, your day is a resounding success.

So, you know, I went in there bells and whistles as high as a kite, you know, not even thinking about the detox that's coming behind the walls and this. and that. And, you know, I went in and you get in, you know, you kind of have ideas, expectations of what it's going to be like, and it's like wholly different, you know, it's very different from the North Carolina State Prison. But somewhat intimidating, I think, once I got there. You know, one of the problems is a lot of the white people in federal prison are there for for sex crimes against children. So immediately when you walk in the door, everybody thinks that's what you're there for.

Yeah, how are you treated as a white man walking into a low security federal prison? You know, to a large extent, I don't really remember all that much, like the first day. And actually, I got taken to the hospital, I think on my second or third day. Because of the detox. I got there and I just slept for days and days and days.

And I guess somebody caught onto it and they sent me out. Yeah, what's it like to be taken to the hospital from prison? It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah, describe that, man. So, again, it's all kind of fuzzy in my mind a little bit. But I do remember, it's kind of gross. So they call me the medical and I'm sitting there at the tent, the cell.

And the doctor's like, I'm like, either let me go back to the bed give me something like I can't just sit I sit here like this and he's like we're going to do something for you and then the police come in and they're like they can't tell you where you're going you know so uh they they put you in the handcuffs and the shackles and everything and uh walked me out and they have a prison van you know so two police come with you to the hospital and I remember as I was getting into the van like all this stuff was going on and I kind of like fainted lost consciousness for a second and kind of almost fell into the van and I woke up with the car with the van moving and everything I told him I was like I have to throw up and they're like just do it and so I threw up in

the prison van and he took me to hospital put me in the emergency room there was actually one um the two police weren't that bad they weren't that they you know they were relatively cool with me and there was one nurse that came in and I couldn't even picture her face but she sat there for about 20 minutes and just rub my chest, you know? And it was like, I was so appreciative of her for doing that. And they're like armed COs too, right?

They have guns on them and they're with you the whole step of the way? The whole time, yeah. They're guarding your room. I'm locked to the bed. You know, my stomach is so upset from the withdrawal and everything. They're like, do you want a ginger ale? And I'm like, no, no, I don't want anything.

And they're like, this is the only time you're going to get a free soda. Man, I don't care about a free soda, you know. Just leave me alone. So what I did, though, is I kind of told them a little bit of a fib is I told them that I had been using Xanax as well. Because I kind of knew that, like, you can't just cold turkey. You could cold turkey detox from heroin. And it's going to be uncomfortable, but you're not going to die. If you detox from Xanax, you're going to die.

You could. You could die. So I told them that, and that changed the doctors too. a little bit. He was just going to send me back. He sent me back with benzos, which weren't a drug that I really used. But they were immensely helpful in coming off the heroin when I was in prison. Yeah, my bet. So the sex offenders, the Danbury Low Security Prison, yeah. It's known for being like a sex offender yard. Yes. So can you explain that, like what the yards like, how they are around, what the dynamic is? Because some people will say, oh, sex offenders don't walk the same compound.

But that's not true in the feds. No, no. They have their own little click going on. You know, my experience was like, I walked into prison, dope, sick, confused, this and that. Like, I had no idea that all these white people I see walking by are child sex offenders, you know. And then after I came to my senses, I had a bunkey from East Orange, New Jersey, cool dude. And he kind of started giving me the scoop that, you know, the guy that ran the Connecticut car. He was in the bunk next to me.

So they started, like, breaking me in. And they're like, this one, this one. they start pointing out like basically every white person in the cell. Most of them are there for like looking at pictures of child pornography from what I gather. But then you got some that are there for a longer amount of time. And it's really overwhelming. But they have like their own little click. You know, they play board games and go to church. And, you know, they could walk around the yard. They could go in any of the recreation places. But in the units, there's, you know, TV rooms.

That's like the big no-no. Like, they're not allowed. They have to stand in the back. When I was there, for that one day I was on the yard, I was told that they stand in the back at the room. They don't get a seat. Well, they weren't even allowed in the rooms of my block. Really?

Yeah, they're not allowed in the TV room. Now, what about at the Chow Hall? Do they have a certain table that they could sit to eat? Yeah, they get piled in. There's like three tables and, like, an abundance of them. and then everybody else kind of has room in the back. One of the marquee things that happened, while I was there, actually, speaking of the child hall,

there was a child sex offender who was a cop from Massachusetts. I think his name was Handrahan. And I'm generally a pretty nice, kind guy. And I've probably been there about a month, and this guy's walking past our table with his tray, and he hits the deck, and he's like holding his chest. for all we know this guy's having a heart attack right there and I kind of looked over at one of the because he sit with the people from Connecticut you know and I look over at one of the guys like

and he's like whatever you know and like my instinct is this guy's having a heart attack we got to do something to help and the dude across me is telling me you know fuck that you know just with a look you gave me this look and it was abundantly clear you know like these people we move and and in different ways. You can't mess with them. No, and like, it also taught a little bit about myself, you know, like, I don't want to save some guy that's hurt children, you know? What happened to the guy?

He eventually came back a few days later. But like I said, they had their own clique. So, like, if somebody that was there for drugs or something like that, if that happened to them, we'd all be in the scoop of what happened, what's going on. But, you know, they're just kind of like the picture on the wall. so to speak. Now, something special about the Denver, Connecticut prison is it had a scratch bakery, which not all the federal prisons have. Can you explain, like, what some of the perks were, like about how we got, like, fresh pastries every day and things like that that made it different?

Absolutely. You know, you might be surprised by my 280 pounds, but I'm actually a very picky eater. And I had a guy across from me who was like the baker. So he would, you know, he'd go in there and make pizzas, make cookies, cakes, pies, and everything. You know, you give them, you know, four stamps or something, which is like, I don't know, $2, $3. And they, you know, he'd make you a calzone. You'd buy the pepperoni at the store. He'd make you a calzone. Um, that was cool. I didn't, I was actually not aware that a lot of the prisons didn't have bakeries like that. Yeah, that when I went to the prison camp after I left, Danbury, it had a big bakery because I worked in the bakery. And it's really cool, like, when it has the scratch stuff. I remember when I was in the

shoe in Danbury, which is like Alcatraz there. It's got, did you ever do shoe time there? I didn't. Yeah, it's got the bars, like the old bars, and I was painting the cells there. Remember, what's his name? It starts with a K. Kreminski or whatever, he waddled. He had, like, the big shoes, and he waddled around. Polish guy. Yeah, he walt. So he had me painting the shoes and he would, the shoe bars and he would call me squints. But we'd get the pastries every morning and they're really nice, like the Danishes, the bear claws, everything that they made. Cinnamon rolls.

Oh, those cinnamon rolls were good. Now, in Danbury, I don't know if you heard, but I heard, I would hear like a lot of rumors about prison staff, like sleeping with each other and crazy stuff. What were some of the rumors you were hearing? Well, we had these two, you know, the police, they work like a maybe a two or three months. shift on the same cell so that like five days out of the week you'll have the same two cops at the same time they had these two in our cell maybe right when I got there that were like these two big huge dudes like they hopped over me you

know and they would get accused of having sex with the like they'd walk through the cell and you know someone five feet behind them would you know make some snide comment about the two of them sleeping with each other and they turned around all mad and stuff and we'd keep a straight face um there was actually another a dude from connecticut um you know he's got the cell phone and and uh he was texting with one of the CEO that they moved in one girl CEO that i mean she was attractive you know she lasted about three weeks and she was you know texting and facebook messaging with one of the inmates there was a really hot case manager there too i forgot you know which one i'm talking about i do and there was also a

rumor that the kitchen cop was sleeping with one of the female, the kitchen cop that ran it was married to this case manager and one of them cheated with an inmate or there was some crazy rumor like that going on. Yeah. Yeah, a bunch of the kitchen cops are always involved in everything because I think because they interacted with the inmates so much so you would pick up the scoop on them. Then there was this other girl. She was like four foot 10 blonde hair girl. I mean, when you were locked up, she was attractive at that point in time. You know, walking on the street, I don't know that I would find her attractive. But it would be pretty clear who she was, you know, shacking up with it.

From the guards, like the word would get out, which one she was jumping around. Yeah, the guards are like high schoolers. They're all talking about who's fucking who and this and that. Yeah. Were you there when the Jewish scandal happened with the Jews using the rabbi to smuggle in food? I wasn't. Did you hear about that or no? I don't know.

But I'll tell you what, you know, for someone that hasn't been in prison, you'd be amazed by the Jewish car of people. They run that facility there. The Jews are so powerful in the federal prison system. Yes. They take it seriously. Yeah. And they're one of the few. They'll protect the sex offenders. They will because they're, a lot of them are sex offenders.

It's crazy. And the other inmates need the Jewish guys to get shit done. Yeah. So they, there's rules about which sex offenders they deal with. Yeah. I met one when I was in the shoe. He was the one getting cell phones in and other contraband items and he was a sex offender himself. Yeah. But guys did business with them. They broke bread with him because they needed him. Yeah. You saw a lot of cell phones in Danbury. I heard about him. You know, I got sentenced to a year. So like, you were staying out the way. Yeah. I'm not really messing. I didn't get into the gambling, really, or really too much of any of that stuff. But I mean, they were, like, if I needed something Google,

that I would know who'd ask to Google for me, you know? You would just go up to them and say, hey, can you Google be something? Yeah, mostly, I like sports. I'm a big sports fan. So, you know, we'd watch a lot of sports. And I think it's like a cultural thing. Like, you know, a lot of guys from the inner city

where like they want to argue about everything. And it's not like mad arguing, but like yelling about basketball and what this guy did and yelling about football. So you get into these like climactic conversations about sports where you would absolutely need, you know, a lot of it's conjecture because you don't have Google, you know. So certain ones would reach a point where you'd go have to find the phone guy and figure out what the truth is, you know? Something I realized about you early on when I met you at the halfway house was you're very vocal about stupid rules. What were some rules at the Danbury Low Security prison that you encountered that were just like ridiculous? whether it was from the inmates or from the staff.

Huh. Chairs. The possession of chairs. So, like, there was, you know, this TV room. And let's say there's 22 chairs in there, and 50 people who are allowed to watch TV, will say non-sex offenders in the unit. And, like, you'd walk into the room,

and, you know, it wasn't like this person put the chair there, but there'd be 16 empty chairs, and you would sit in a chair and someone would be like, that's my chair, you know? And a lot of times it wasn't even like get out of my chair. You know, I got along with most people. But it's like, holy shit, we're going to be possessive about, you know, a chair you're not sitting in. They're possessive about spaces too. If I saw an empty space and I'd put my chair there, they said, that's my spot.

Yeah, absolutely. Air, they're possessive over air. Absolutely. It's crazy. Now, one of the other unwritten rules there is like, black people and white people don't tend to bunk together. So when I got put in, you know, I self-surrendered, so they weren't really prepared. They put me with a black guy from New Jersey. Sports fan, me and him were cool.

And probably after I was there about a week, we got called into the case manager office. And she's like, I'm sorry we've let this slide, you know, but we'll get you guys split up. And my bunkie was like, no, he's staying with me. And we got along. We just had a good thing. We got along. So me and him, we were the only black and white bunk. And, you know, out of this 48, whatever, bunks in the dorm. And then, you know, you kind of move into neighborhoods inside the thing. He said, come on, we're moving down here. You know, a couple weeks before I'm going home, I'm looking around. And it's like, holy shoot. The two bunks next to me, you got the Muslim guy on the bottom was doing like 17 years. You got the guy Pop, cool dude from Baltimore who, like, if you ever saw this dude walking down the street, you'd be like, oh, my God, get me away from him. He was the nicest guy in the world. He's doing 30 years. 17 next me.

My bunk mate's doing 12. The other guy from D.C.'s doing 16, and, you know, here I am going home in three weeks. But they were cool. You know, I handled myself in a way. And also the haircuts, you know. You don't think of it at the time, but, like, I got a MS-13 gang members. but taking apart a razor blade and, you know, cutting my hair in the bathroom. These are things like if you were watching a TV show or something, you'd be like,

oh, he's going to cut him. He's going to cut him, but like not even a thought in your mind. It's just so different, yeah, at the low security prisons. Everybody humanize, you know, it really humanizes people in a large sense. So you end up doing what, like seven months there? Oh, let's see. I think it was closer to 10 probably, about 10 and then maybe a month. in the halfway house, maybe nine and a half.

So you go to the halfway house. What's that like? And where do you go? Oh, it's miserable. I went to Waterbury, the Chase Center, Waterbury. Now, the halfway house, they kind of let you walk around a bit. But to give you an idea of this neighborhood, like the first day I got there,

walking down the street to the, they gave me a pass to go to some place that gives away free clothes. So I'm walking down the street, I got prison sweatpants, prison sweatshirt on, and this lady walks up to me like, yo, you got some money? And I'm thinking like, holy shit, what is going through your mind that would make you think that I have money to give you? I mean, look at me, but, oh, it's terrible.

I had never really spent that much time in Waterbury. You know, I spent a lot of time in Bridgeport and stuff, and sometimes you got to step over, you know, dog crap in Bridgeport and you see some things, but in Waterbury, there would be human feces on the sidewalk. Like, it was a dregs neighbor. If you're from Connecticut, everyone knows water berries, not the spot you want to be in. And I remember, like, when I got to that halfway house, because this is where we end up

meeting. They said there was like an escape, like not a couple months earlier from that where inmates are running away. I think right after you and I left, one of the state inmates, he escaped. And a lot of the times the guys, it's so miserable there, they don't. would they just say, take me back? And then the marshals come and pick them up. Yes. Or the state cops that come, pick them up and they scored them out. Yeah. Because there's so many petty rules there. Well, I think it's designed like that. So basically,

you know, I think I figure everything out. But they put out so many rules that it would be completely impossible for someone to follow all these rules, which then gives them the latitude to decide who they want to reprimand and who they want to send back. Because it's just the rules they have, It's literally impossible to follow. You're breaking rules from the minute you walk in that place. And they say it's a halfway house, like halfway to home, stepping stone, you know, to getting into the free world to reintegrate. But the rules are like, you can explain the difference between the state and the federal guys.

It didn't make any sense. No, it was ridiculous. Like the federal guys couldn't have smartphones. You're supposed to be in the free world, but you can only have a flip phone. but the state guys in the same building could have a smartphone. You know, I forgot about that. Yeah, and just like the state guys can't get their license, but the Fed guys can to drive.

Yeah. And then the visits were terrible in that little tiny room. Cockroaches everywhere. Food, the bathrooms? It was like purgatory, you know? It's like you've gotten past the struggle and you're almost at the end gate, but now you've got to suffer through this.

And it's a for-profit business. Absolutely. They're taking a cut of your paycheck. They're doing this. They're doing that. They get funds too for like if I get a job or even if I fill out the paperwork saying that I went and searched for a job, they get more funds for it. So like I sat down with one of the case managers once and went over the logistics of like

I'm leaving here in a month. I don't live anywhere near here. I don't have a car. Like am I really going to go look for a job? that I can't keep. And then I actually got one. So they sent me out to look at all these jobs. And I got this job at this plumbing supply shop in Norwalk, Connecticut,

which would have been a ridiculous commute to make on a train and a bus and everything. So I got the job. And I come back and I'm like, you guys aren't going to believe it. I got a job. And they're like, okay, give us your boss's name. We got to call them. I'm like, what do you mean? You got to call them.

They're like, yeah, when you're working, we need to call your work like two times a day to make sure you're there. Lo and behold, they got back. After they called him, the guy wrote back, like, oh, sorry, we found someone else to fill the position, you know? That's crazy. Yeah, I remember when I was working at the pizzeria, they would call like twice a day. Yeah.

It's ridiculous. They almost didn't let me go to my Whole Foods interview because they said they needed proof. And I was like, they called me and told me to go. How am I going to get proof? There's no, like, document or anything. It's tomorrow. Plus, you can't really, like, go to a prospective employer and be like, you think you could fill out some paperwork on my halfway house?

Yeah, there's a lot of paperwork they have to fill out too. Yeah. Now, describe the staff that works there. What's the staff like? Are these, like, mature, older professionals or are these, like, young kids that are working out that don't give a fuck about us? So you had, like, the people that were, like, I say counselors, they were like, you know, they give you the toilet paper and, like, show you the phone and this and this. that they were like useful idiots and then you had the people in the offices and they were just plain old idiots you know and um it was like it's completely overwhelming there i remember they had

like you got to get these passes and stuff and uh the the one my case manager there so i reached a point there where they like wouldn't let me leave and i didn't have any passes because they told me I was going to leave. So I was just stuck in this building for like three weeks. So for my recreation, I would start typing these letters to like the head guy in the office, in the halfway house. I'd write them to his bosses. And I would just write these, you know, scathing letters, you know?

At one point, it's like I, I, I, I, you have a case manager. Like, their job is to manage your case. And they were just, it was just something that didn't have. It was like a 20 year old girl. That didn't care about it. They didn't care. You know, I've been used, I know a little bit about using drugs. It was clearly evident the way she was sniffling and her mannerisms that she was using cocaine.

We had a mutual friend as well, who I know full well. I used to, you know, do cocaine with her. And it was just brutal. And that they had two computers you could search for jobs that everyone was hogging all day for Facebook. Yeah. I remember there's one guy that, oh, he smelled so bad. And I used to wake up early, like 4.45 in the morning to go down there. And this freaking guy, he'd be down there from 4.45 in the morning to 10 o'clock at night.

You just wanted to, he smelled so bad, you know. And just to go, you know, listen to a little bit of music or Google something. I mean, it's a, it's a terrible setup. It's a terrible set. Now this halfway house is where I would meet you. Yeah. I remember walking that room. I got there like late at night.

What's your first impression of me? Like, what do you think? Well, naturally, like we said before, anytime a white person comes in, the first thing that goes to your mind, is this dude a sex offender? You know, that's like the first question you ask. But to tell you the truth,

I was pretty relieved after I got to know you. There was two other guys there. Yeah, we were in a big room, but it wasn't full. No, no. One of the guys was this little sex offender guy, and the other was like a homie for, Oh, the guy on the left of me was the second. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And one of the things I really struggled with in prison was finding, like, intellectual. I'm no genius, you know, but my mind moves fast. And, like, I need to be stimulated and have intellectual conversations. At some point in time, you know, I can't just talk about, like, what I'm going to do when I get out. And, you know, did the Knicks win last night? Like, there's got to be more to it. Something, you know, nuanced humor, something.

And you offered that to me, which I was very grateful. I remember just laying in the bunk because there was nothing else to do. We had nothing. I had just gotten there. So I was there, you know, all weekend without a pass. So I didn't have a smartphone smuggled in yet or anything like that. I remember I used to have to smuggle in the iPhone. Oh, yeah.

In the backpack because they'd wand me in and they'd breathalized me. And I had the flip phone in my hand. But we were just sit there and talk for hours because that's all we had to do. All the other guys are going crazy over fuck. What was that show? Big Brother. They're all going nuts about it at the halfway house. They hog the TV room about Big Brother

and that little TV downstairs. Yeah. But me and you would sit and we would talk and you would tell me, like you were so passionate about your daughter and wanting to be a good father and doing all these things. And, you know, it was nice. Like you had a plan. And I didn't know any of the stuff that you talked about today about you at that time.

Yeah. I just knew you were a guy that went to Danbury. We hit it off over the same. stories that we could share and the idiotic staff at the halfway house. Yeah. And then we both went on a home confinement and we haven't seen each other in four years. No, no, no. And, you know, from what I've told you prior to this, like having a plan to be, you know,

ever present in my daughter's life and stuff is a good plan to have. But really, at 39 years old, whatever I was at that time, 40, 39 probably, the idea that I would be able to take steps and actually follow through on that was really a far-fetched thought. Like, you know, I could generally put together a few months of good behavior and this and that. And thankfully, I've been able to, you know. So you were able to accomplish that goal? By and large, yeah. I mean, piece by piece, you know.

What's your life like now, you know, four years later? Well, the big thing is I'm a single full custody parent of a five-and-a-half-year-old girl, you know? and that's awesome because there's not a lot of you know people out there like that no not at all you're you're one of the few one of the few you know that have been to prison too i'll forget about it you're you know you're really whittling down the list at that point in time you're breaking like all those barriers and societal you know opinions and stuff yeah it's fantastic it's like you know we talked a little earlier about purpose and like uh you know i've got the ultimate purpose now. I, you know, I always had ambition, somewhat had ambitions and like, maybe not even

specific ambitions, but ambitions to do something with my life, whether I knew what that doing something looked like, and then she was put in my life. And it's, it's kind of, me and her were kind of like yin and yang a little bit. And she's like the most feminine little girly, five and a half year old in the world and I'm this big, you know, construction worker that likes watching football and, you know, swings an axe and kicks a shovel for a living, you know. Yeah, but you got, you have so much love for her. Like, I see like the pictures. I, because we've been following each other on Facebook. Yeah. You guys are doing stuff. Like you go to the park, you go to the beach, like you go on trips. We go everywhere. That's like so awesome and wholesome and stuff. Yeah.

You know, I took her on vacation. Like vacation, when I was young, my dad would take me on vacation once in a while. But like the idea, you know, I'm about to move to Fairfield. I bought a Volvo. You know, like these are things that you could never imagine what happened. And, you know, I work, I got this job right when I got out pretty much. Maybe I started two months after I got out. And still at the same job. It's a pretty good job. You know, I don't get rich over there, but I make a living. And, you know, I took my daughter to Puerto Rico last year, which the idea of, of me being able to put all that together, to plan a vacation and actually execute it.

I mean, this is like miracle stuff from where I was, five and a half, six, seven, ten, 15, 20. Yeah, man. That was a complete turnaround. Complete, complete. Would you take anything back? Like, knowing everything you know now, do you have any regrets in that manner?

Or no, because it brought you to exactly where, you know, you needed to be? There's probably some interpersonal things with certain people. You know, sometimes I like anxiety get the best of me. My buddy, my best friend who passed away, you know, me and his mom were in contact for a while. And once I got out, I really had a lot of anxiety about that. I really wish I had handled that better off the bat, because now it's like it would have been difficult then. Now it's like climbing a mountain after not speaking to someone for five years and the uncomfortable nature of that initial

conversation. So that's one thing. But as far as my life, I kind of don't think so, you know. I mean, it would have been great to not have to go to prison. It would have been great to have this job and be able to plan vacations in my 20s and stuff. But, you know, I've kind of got this unique life going. My daughter goes to school in Connecticut, a nice town in Connecticut.

And she's probably going to be the only one in her kindergarten class that has a single parent. Definitely going to be the only one in kindergarten class who has a single dad. And I, it's a safe bet she'll be the only one that, you know, I had a dad that went to prison. And the feedback on her that I get. And I mean, it's like, it's my, you know, her nursery school teacher tells me, like, she's a, she's a gem.

Whatever you're doing, just keep doing it. You know, I'm a dad that goes to prison. But you know, the single moms are going to love that, John. They're going to love that. That you got the daughter and, you know, the felony, too, you know. Yeah, it's kind of like the best of both world. But you're living like this good second act, and you probably thought in the past that you've had multiple acts. But now, like, you got something here, you know?

You got meaning, purpose. You got an amazing daughter, and you're just, you're living the life now. Absolutely. Absolutely. I, what I have today, I wouldn't trade for anything. You know, it's a struggle. I mean, five and a half your kids, a lot of work. The worst is yet to come, right?

What they say the teenage years? I can't even think about it, you know. But he's cool, you know, we go swimming. We got a little pool at our condo. It's like, there's life of Riley, you know. That's awesome. Now, what would be your message to someone? What's a takeaway from someone that watches this,

whether a young adult, a boy, a girl, you know, a woman, a man. If they watch your episode today, what do you want the takeaway to be? Probably to just kind of keep going, you know? Like, I was pretty well defeated at many ass, many days. many different points in my life. But I've just had this revolutionary change. You know, for me, I don't really go to like AA meetings, but I went through like the 12 steps.

And that was monumental for me. That really changed a lot of things. And really just to, you know, persevere. I mean, life can beat you up a little bit, you know. but, you know, I think looking at me, it's pretty evident that if you start making good decisions and, you know, a lot of the cards have fallen in my favor as well. But spectacular things can happen. If somebody, you know, if you asked, like you said, if somebody from high school, would John be a single parent raising a five-year-old girl, they'd be like, you know, call the police.

You know, this is bad news, but it's great. But people can change, you know. And you shouldn't look at someone the way you looked at them years ago. You got to give people a second chance. Yeah. And sometimes they need a third or a fourth. But, you know, if someone's saying that they're a changed person, see if they are, you know, give them that opportunity. Yeah.

And really, if you start, I guess the big thing, if you start acting, like you got to act your way into thinking good. You can't really think your way and act. I mean, actions speak louder than words. Yeah. Just show up. Be different. And your thoughts will fly. following that path. You do good deeds, good thoughts will follow. Absolutely. John, thank you so much

for driving out here today, catching up, you know, look forward to continuing our friendship, man. It's been great to, you know, stay in touch. And again, I'm really happy you came to do this show. You've been on my, like, little wish list of guests for a while. So this is great. The audience is going to love it. We always get a lot of good feedback when I bring someone on that, you know, has either seen me in prison before or relates to me to my story in some way or another. It gives like the viewers some insight into my journey that they're curious about. Absolutely. So it's great.

Yeah, I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled. I'm psyched to see you doing well, you know? Thank you, man. You got to actually watch a full episode now. You said you just watch the clips. I'm a single parent. I'm a time to take a shout.

Well, you can watch this one. Cool. Thank you, John. Thank you.