Locked In with Ian Bick - Drugs, Gangs, and Prison: How I Escaped the Streets | Danny Horner

Episode Date: September 18, 2024

Danny Horner shares his journey growing up in Waterbury, CT and navigating the world of drugs, gangs, and street life that led him to prison. Danny offers a rare glimpse into the challenges he faced, including his time behind bars and his experience with drawing during his incarceration. #WaterburyCT #PrisonStories #GangLife #StreetLife #PrisonSurvival #TrueCrime #PrisonArt #redemptionjourney Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Danny Horner: https://www.instagram.com/dannyhorner_sketch/ https://www.tiktok.com/@danny_sketch https://www.youtube.com/@DannyHorner_sketch/featured Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Community and Family Influences on Growth 00:03:49 - Childhood Influence & School Life 00:07:44 - Struggles with Education and Dropout 00:11:28 - Getting Involved with Gangs and Dealing 00:15:22 - Reflections on past choices 00:19:14 - Life Choices and Consequences 00:23:02 - The Vicious Cycle of the Criminal Justice System 00:26:41 - Surrounding Yourself with the Right People 00:30:23 - The Aftermath of Probation 00:34:21 - Finding Passion Through Persistence in Prison 00:37:56 - Portraits and Prison Candies 00:41:43 - Struggles with Employment and Drugs 00:45:38 - Persistence in Prison 00:49:16 - Finding Hope Through Art 00:52:45 - Transitioning from Prison to Artistry 00:56:19 - Return to Artistic Endeavors 00:59:55 - Appreciation and Thanks Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Point Reyes Farmstead Cheese has the perfect way to celebrate your graduate. Give them something they'll actually remember. Award-winning California-made artisan cheese. Our collections work for every milestone in budget. We ship nationwide and eco-friendly insulated packaging, so celebrating is easy no matter where they are. We pride ourselves in being a woman-owned small business, so help us spread the joy and get deliciously cheesy.

Visit us online at point raisechease.com and get 15% off your first order. From our family to yours. Happy celebrating. Danny, welcome to Lockton. You are a Connecticut resident from Waterbury. We were just thinking about if we had anyone from Waterbury on the show. And I don't know.

We might have had one or two. But Waterbury, it's like 30 minutes from Danbury. I was at the halfway house there in Waterbury. And it's a pleasure to have you on the show, man. Thank you for reaching out and coming on. Thank you for allowing me to come here. For having me. And I want to plug in in the beginning of this episode that you're an artist and people are able to

purchase your work and get paintings or drawings done by you, which we'll find out later in this episode. You actually learned how to do in prison, which is a really inspiring story. So we'll have that link in the description of the episode. Maybe if you want to tell the people what kind of art you do draw. Well, majority is just some portraits. You know, sad to say since COVID happened,

I've just been getting bombarded with people's loved ones. You know, I started out, you know, I'm doing pencils, graphite pencils, and then that's time when I learned how to use watercolors and charcoal. So. And now you just do it all the time on the side. It's gone from like a hobby to like a little business. Well, yeah, I mean, I kind of planned it to try to make it a business all along. Kind of like, well, it would start off as a prison business.

You know, a lot of people that get out of prison, what they do now is they did learn it in prison some type of skill and hustle. I mean, I always talk about I was the cheesecake hustler. I ran the blackjack table. And, you know, this is an interesting perspective that you had a drawing business. Guys get very creative. And you just started a YouTube channel, right? Yes. What's the name of that?

Danny Horner underscore sketch. Okay, awesome. So everyone listening, you know, definitely check that out. and we'll have those links in the bio. Did you grow up in Waterbury your whole life? Yes, I lived in Waterbury my whole life. I was raised by my grandmother. I don't know if anyone's familiar with Waterbury.

I grew up in between like the South Side and the West Side, moving back and forth. Now, Waterbury kind of has a bad rep. Does it live up to that rep? What was that like growing up there? Yeah. It does have a pretty bad rep, you know, drugs and violence and stuff like. like that. You know, I mean, Waterbury does have some, can't have its good moments too, just like anywhere. You know, anywhere has its good and it's bad.

Would you say it was, like, dangerous growing up there at all? Yeah. Do you feel like if you lived in a different environment, maybe your life and path would have ended up differently? Definitely. Yeah, it kind of makes you think a lot about, like, when you grow up, how important it is, like, having, you know, a certain type of community and a certain family and whatnot to help, you know, give growth to your life.

I was raised by my grandmother and she was handicapped. She had a hole in her throat from cancer so she couldn't talk. And I used to read her lips and speak for her, you know, since I was five years old. And then, um, I could remember, like, like going to school and, um, I don't know, she's always getting into trouble for stupid stuff, though. You know, I didn't really understand when I was younger, but now I think it was, I think I was just trying to get attention. Yeah. Did you have siblings growing up, too, or it was just you?

Just me and my grandmother. Did you feel lonely at all? Um, I think so. It's hard to remember. I mean, I'm 49. Now it's hard to think back, you know, as a child. How did your friends perceive you as? What did they think of you as while you were in high school? Were you popular?

Were you kind of a lone person? I don't know, I always hung out with, like, the worst of the worst. I hung out with, like, the baddest kids, the ones everybody was afraid of. And I don't know. I think, because I remember when I was young, like, when I was real young, when I first started going to school, I was getting into trouble and stuff. And I remember I used to get picked on a lot as a kid. And then I just started hanging out with, like, the bigger kids and the kids.

and the kids that were like that everybody was afraid of so that way nobody would like mess with me and then as time went on like I guess their traits kind of rubbed off onto me why do you think that was looking back on it now that you're older

wiser and you've experienced a lot of life um I really don't know do you think it was because you didn't have anyone kind of telling you that that wasn't the direction to go in no people were telling me

you know, I mean, I knew the difference between right and wrong. I just, I don't know. I don't know why I did what I wanted to do. Why I wanted to do what I did, I mean. Yeah, and that's totally a fair answer, not, you know, sometimes. Did you ever take the time to think about it, maybe in prison or when you got out, or do you try to, like, put that to the back of your mind? Like, why I did what I did when I was a child?

Yeah, like, just how you grew up. Like, I feel like as I get older, I think a lot about childhood and decisions I made. I mean, I think about every once in a while, but I don't know. I mean, obviously, probably from the way I grew up, you know, feeling me and stuff. What about the schools on Waterbury? What was that like going through that at that age? That was, what, 30 years ago? 35 years ago, probably.

Yeah, they were pretty tough. Fights all the time and, you know, skipping. school or, you know, it was just, it wasn't a good, it wasn't a good school. Was it strict to the teachers at all, or did they not really care? I think the teachers just couldn't control us, you know. Everybody just did what they wanted. You know, people would just leave when they wanted, did whatever they wanted. And what about you?

Did you go to school religiously, or did you kind of just screwed around, didn't really care? to go to school. I remember, like, when I went to Kennedy High School, I'd get up in the morning go to school, buy weed off my own, buy weed off of somebody at school, and then I'd just leave. I'd leave, like, after, like, first period, and that'd be my day. Where would you get the money for the weed? Well, back then, I don't know, we just did all kinds of stupid stuff when we were kids. Just, like, hustling. Yeah, I mean, we did all kinds of stuff, shoveled for snow. I'm talking about way back.

Shovel for snow. They did all kinds of stupid stuff for money. So you guys understood that at least the concept of working hard to get, yeah. It's not like what sometimes I feel like, you know, when I talk to younger people, they weren't having that mindset. They'll, you know, like do criminal activities to get the money to support their, you know, whatever that is they're doing. Now, weed back then, what was the environment like for that?

Did, you know, people look at it as a really bad drug, right? Yeah, I mean, it wasn't bad, bad, like, other stuff, but it was definitely looked down upon. And did your grandma know you were cutting class to smoke weed? Yeah, but she was old and, you know, sad to say, you know, she was old and she was sick and she couldn't control me. Do you feel like that if she was healthy and wasn't sick and younger, she would have had more control over? you and you would have made maybe better decisions? Yes. Because I would, you know, when I was young, I would just leave when I wanted.

Once I hit, like, around like 13, 14, that's when I'm everything with downhill. You know, there was no stopping me. I did whatever I wanted. Did you have a plan? Did you want to go out to college? Did you have, like, a career, a dream, or anything like that? Well, I wanted to be a scientist. Oh, okay.

I wanted to come up with a cure for cancer. that's that's awesome yeah why a scientist to come up with a care for cancer and that's my grandmother because you're a grandma okay did you understand at that age what cancer was and what even a scientist was yes because when she was going through all the treatments and everything at the time we lived across the street from the hospital and and she'd take me with her at the hospital for our treatments or her appointments and everything all nurses they would I was only like four years old and they would you know give me treats and try to to make me happy and everything.

But, you know, through that experience, I always knew what, you know, what cancer was at a young age. Were your teachers supportive of you? Did they know that, like, you were living with your grandmother, maybe didn't have the best childhood and experience? Were they there to help you at all? It's hard to remember. Because when you're a child, you know, you don't really know what's going on all the time. You know, like when the parents started talking with the teachers. You know, you're just doing your own thing.

Yeah. So why didn't you end up becoming a scientist? I made a lot of bad choices. And did you end up graduating high school? No. I got my GED while I was incarcerated. There's nothing wrong with that. A lot of the individuals on our show went through that.

So when did you leave high school? Did you drop out, get expelled? What happened? This is an interesting story. The principal convinced me to drop out when I was 16. I've never heard of this before. Yeah, so, well, when I was in, one day I was in class, because I was like a class clown. I was always doing, like, silly stuff for attention, you know?

And I took a flint from a cigarette lighter. This was back in the day when you could bring cigarettes to school and stuff, which probably, you know, it sounds wild. but I took a flint from a cigarette lighter and wrapped it around the spring and it took another lighter and lit it until it started glowing red hot. And I threw it at the blackboard. You guys probably don't even have blackboards nowadays, but I threw it out to blackboard and just sparked

and scared the teacher and they thought I brought fireworks to school or something. They called the police and everything. And I was in the principal's office. He told me that I'd be better off if I just dropped out of school. He told me that I could go to adult ed and get my GED in a few months and I could be done. And then, you know, I could just move on, which was, you know, insane when you think about it, you know, a principal telling you telling the student to drop out of school and just get your GED and move on. Do you wish he didn't tell you that? Yes.

Looking back on it, you wish you were able to stay in school? Mm-hmm. I can't believe he told you that. And there was no signature needed from your grandmother or anything? Well, I was 16. When you're 16, I think you could just drop out. And so what did you do with yourself once you dropped out and left school? I just started hanging out on the streets. That's it. That's when everything really went downhill.

Back then where there were a lot of gangs in Waterbury or anything? Because I know like Bridgeport and Waterbury now are pretty gang heavy. And I see a lot of young people getting involved and mixed up with that. Yeah, there was a lot of gangs back then. Did you involve yourself with them or you kind of stayed as like an independent person? I was always around them and and like back then I was always around them and and that's who kind of got me started, you know, into dealing drugs. And what kind of drugs are you dealing?

Crack. Crack. How does a 16-year-old kid just start dealing crack? I started like around between 14 and 15. an older kid gave me some and he was like here take these 10 vials they're $10 each and give me $8 and keep $20 for yourself and you told me just stand over there and you know I mean we knew who what the people looked like stand on the corner and they would just come to you you didn't have to do anything now were the cops less suspecting of kids like did the cops if there were a big police presence back

then? Did they bother kids at all? I used to get, first, I used to get, like, shook down a lot when I was, like, around 17, 18, but not when I was younger. So, maybe, maybe not. Did you know what the drugs you were that you were, drugs were that you were selling? Like, did you ever try them? No, I never tried them. I knew what they were, though.

You know, it's, um, crazy because, um, I heard a song by, NWA when I was young called dope man. And when I heard that, I wanted to be a drug dealer when I got older. And I never even knew what the stuff looked like or anything. Yeah. Now, $20 back then was that considered a lot of money for someone your age? For a teenager, that's all right. It's a decent amount of money.

You could buy some weed, buy some alcohol, buy food, you know. How long did it take you to sell those vials when they gave them to you? Probably like not even an hour That's it? Oh wow So you could What were you making in a day at that age? I don't know

Because I would just It would just give me like 10 And then I'd go spend my money And go hang out my friends And then that was it You know what I mean I'd come back Maybe tomorrow or whatever

Like it wasn't like You know what I mean Like he wasn't like Just constantly like Trying to Yeah So you were looking at Just give me like pocket money

You know what I mean Basically make making sure I always had money in my pocket. Yeah. Hanging out with friends supporting kind of like your lifestyle. Were you still living with your grandma at this point? Yes. When did you leave her?

When I was 18, when I was 18, when I was 17, I got arrested for dealing drugs. And I went to AIC. I didn't, I wasn't incarcerated. I just went to AIC. I don't know if you know what that is. Alternative to incarceration. It's similar to like a halfway house, but it's for people that's going the court still. Okay. So I went there for a little, for a couple months, and then I got out,

and then I was home on a bracelet, and then I was done. My friend had got me a job at McDonald's near where I was living at the time, and they cut the bracelet off, and they said, I was done with court, so then I quit the job, and I started doing the same shit again, and my grandmother was upset, and she threatened to move to old folks, So she said, if you don't stop what you're doing, I'm going to move to an elderly home and then you got to just figure it out. So me, you know, being a badass, I just went and got an apartment. You know, I just kept doing what I was doing. Why do you think you reverted back to drugs instead of continuing the job at McDonald's?

Um, I don't know. I wasn't. How much were they paying at McDonald's back then? probably like um $6 an hour or something so you could make in probably five minutes 20 bucks so was that do you think that was a or a motivational factor and leaving

well I don't really think it's more I don't really I mean it is the money but it's more like the freedom where you know you got to sit at work all day for eight hours where you can just you know staying on the corner for half hour and have more have you know what I mean? And then you could go about your day and you're free.

You understand what I'm saying? Yeah. I live that now because... As a child? As a teenager, I mean? Yeah, I mean, you look at the world. It's the same logic of you don't want to work for someone else. You don't want to be structured.

So you go and be an entrepreneur, which is what you did. You just pick the wrong subject or line of work. But it's no different than what entrepreneurs do. What I do now and what you're trying to do with the painting and the YouTube and anything like that. you just want to break away from that. Do you think if you had a different type of idea in mind back then, you would have gone with that instead of drugs? Like what if you had discovered, like, painting back then?

You know, I tell myself all the time, I wish I started drawing when I was a child. Or something constructive. Yeah, just like a hobby or something good. Now, after you went back into dealing drugs, Are you just like a low-level guy just wheeling and dealing? Are you getting involved with bigger people? I was pretty much a low-level guy at that time.

You know, I wasn't like trying to get rich or anything. I was just trying to, you know, I was a teenager. You know, I wanted money for weed. I wanted money for alcohol. I wanted money to hang out my friends. I want money for sneakers. And, you know what I mean? I just wanted, like, basic stuff.

I wasn't trying to, like, get rich or be an El-Tropos. or a drug kingpin or nothing, you know. I just wanted to have stuff, you know, to be able to hang out my teenage friends at that time and, you know. Were you paying your bills too? Like for the apartment? You said you got an apartment. Yeah.

Yeah. I was paying the bills at first. And then what happened? Well, I ended up losing the apartment. It was my first apartment. I had it for, um, I didn't get evicted or anything. but um because we were like a lot of latin kings hanging around my house all the time and there was always a bunch of people there and a bunch of stuff going on and landlord wasn't really happy and and i didn't i was able to pay my bills but it was getting to the point where where it was getting harder and harder so i just like cut the string before i ended up getting on money or anything and getting myself into a situation you know now these guys you were hanging around What do you feel like, did you feel like at the time these were your friends, people that you looked up to?

Yeah. And little, did you know that they weren't actually your friends? Did you find that later on? Did you know that they were like a bad group of people? The group, yeah, I knew they're bad, but like, I mean, I look at it like this. Like a lot of them, I can't even say a lot of them. A few of them. they were my friends before they were even involved in that stuff.

You know what I mean? Like we grew up together and stuff, so it was kind of hard to me just look at them like, like they're just automatically bad because I knew them since we were like in the sandbox playing. You know what I mean? Yeah. And none of these guys had any real jobs. Everyone was just on the street selling drugs? Some of them had jobs.

Some went to school, but most of them were selling drugs and stuff. And did it make you think? The ones that were going to school and had a job, did it ever give you the idea of maybe I want to do that? No. No. Because the ones that had jobs and stuff were, like, older. They weren't, like, the teenagers. All the young ones were all doing the bad stuff.

How old were you when you actually got arrested and sent to prison? I went to prison for the first time when I was 22. I've been arrested many times, but I've just kept getting breaks and breaks and breaks. my grandmother, that poor woman, go back and forth to court with me. She'd bond me out of jail. I remember one time, I needed $100 to get out of jail.

I couldn't get out. She came with quarters and nickels and dimes to the courthouse and got me out. That's awesome. Well, that sounds like a very supportive grandmother. At the time, were you thinking of her feelings and, you know,

what was going through her mind when she kept, you know, probably struggling to get you bailed out? No. Do you, does it make you think now looking back on it? Absolutely. Absolutely. So what happens next after that, after the multiple arrests?

When do your line of breaks finally stop? I was 22. Actually, I was 21. I got arrested. I was all down behind. And then I was facing, I was facing three years. I couldn't believe it. I didn't think, you know, I didn't think I was going to go to jail for that long.

I thought, like, first time would be, like, six months or a couple. You know what I mean? Because I've never been to prison before. I've only been to the police station. So, yeah, I got six years suspended after three with three years probation. And it was in September of 1997 that Christmas my grandmother passed while I was incarcerated. three months into my sentence. I'm sorry to hear that, man.

And that three-year sentence, that was your first, like, real prison sentence? Yes. Would you end up going to prison later on after that, or that was the only one? I went after that, but it's funny because, like, when I got to prison, you know, in Connecticut, it's like everybody clicks up by their town, you know? So I started meeting people from Waterbury from other sides of town that I didn't grow up in and everything. And the whole time I was in prison, everybody kept saying, oh, you'll be back. We all come back. We all be back.

And I've seen guys that's been in and out a bunch of times. And in my mind, I'm just thinking that's crazy. How can somebody come to prison one time and experience this and do the same stuff again and come back? You know what I mean? It just blew my mind. And everybody was like, oh, you'll be back. We all come back. you know, and I was determined to get out and do the right thing and never come back.

So I came home, I got a job. Long story short, I got rest of the beach of peace. I'm fighting the case. A few months later, I get hit with a warrant for violation and probation. I couldn't make bond. I ended up getting two years. I mean, not violation. Yeah, violation of probation.

So then I ended up getting two years for the violation of probation. Another two years. So you came home from three, and now they're saying you have to go to. Yeah, I did two years. I was only home for five months. I came back in the doors. Everybody was in prison with me the first time. They all seen me come back.

They're all laughing at me telling me, I told you so, and this, this and that. And that kind of, like, just broke my heart. That, like, made me start to believe the stuff. It made me feel like I was hopeless. And now it was just, like, the rest of them that was in and out, in and out, in and out. Do you think that the criminal justice system gave you too much? slack and leeway in the beginning, which is what led to this three-month sentence? Like, what if it was a harsher sentence the first time you ever got caught?

Hmm, that's a good question. I never even thought of that. You mean, when I didn't go to prison, when I just... Yeah, it sounds like they kept giving you slaps on the wrist. They weren't tough with you. You kept going now and out and out and out. And then, you know, eventually you just get hit with these three years, which turns into five. Mm-hmm.

You know, I never really thought of that. You know what? That might have scared me straight if I went to prison the first time when I was younger. Yeah, I see a lot of cases in Connecticut sometimes I just look at the criminal docket and stuff and I read the news. And a lot of people get charged bailed out, charged bailed out. And some people could have like 10 different charges and be on bail for all these cases. It seems very like laxed and it just feels like it kind of contributes to bad behavior. It doesn't really help it, you know?

Mm-hmm. I mean, I think there needs to be a balance, like, with being tough with the bail system, but not tough, too. Like, it just feels like that part of it is broken. Yes. So when you started to learn how to draw and everything, was that the second time you went in? That was the third time. The third time. All right.

So the first time you get three years, then you violate, get the second two years. And then you get out from those two years. Yes. What happens after that? I went out, I was, I went out with the attitude, like I'm going home to get this money, man, I'm going home, I'm, you know, I made my, I got all my friends in jail now, well, not friends, but, you know, people I met in jail, I met new people, got new connects and everything. I'm ready, I'm ready to go home and just, you know, I'm up to no good now. Because I've, because I felt like, like, like, like, no matter what, like, like, I'm, I felt like I was staying now, you know what I mean? Like, you know, like, like, like, like, like, like, I had mentioned that I came home. and I got two years for breach of peace. So I went home. I did what I did.

It the streets running. I lasted about 18 months. And then I got caught again. And this was back to selling drugs? Yes. Do you feel like there was any support system with the probation department to offer you any assistance or anything, guidance? Well, they try to make you do these programs and stuff. I've been doing them for years, and I feel like it doesn't really hope.

It just puts us all together around the same people. You know, all the phones together, all the criminals together, you know, and then, you know, or they send you the jobs, like, all the low-paying jobs. You know, all... Like, it seems like when you get out of jail, when you get out of prison, you're around all the same people that you were in prison with. It's like... It's like we all get out like...

We all like trickle all around the same time. We're all going to probation together. We're all going. You know what I mean? You go to the community health center to get a checkup. You see them there. It's like it's weird when you get out. Like you just like you're grouped around the same people for a while.

Yeah. I think it's, you know, being around the right people is everything. Absolutely. And it has nothing to do with those individuals having felonies. If they all had felonies and they were like winning and doing something exciting, that would excite you and helpful. But if you're around. people with felonies that have no intention of doing anything and just want to go back into it,

that's fueling a bad pattern. I agree 100%. And I think that, you know, like I tell people I started doing this mentorship thing and the kids that I'm, you know, mentoring, they've never really been around this, you know, at that age. They're used to a bunch of kids running around on the streets and gang life, this and that, but they get to come here to the studio and see this and see that there's a whole other world out there, which I think we need more of in the world. And I was on the phone with someone the other day because they wanted me to speak at a library in Connecticut.

And I just said, we're failing with reentry because these reentry job fairs and everything, which I know they have in Waterbury, they have in Danbury, are literally just low-level paying jobs saying to people with records that this is all you can get. That's what it really is. That's the truth of it, you know. It's not saying you could be so much more, you know, you could go beyond this. No one's told that after prison. They're just saying, oh, these are the only, like at the halfway houses, there's a list of jobs that hire people with felonies. And obviously, they're like low-level jobs, and that's what's screwed up.

There should be other ones on there. There should be more options. There should be, you know, start a business, social media. The system's not designed to push people to start their own business either. I don't think we learned anything about that in prison or the halfway house or anything like that. Yeah, halfway house, that's a whole other thing. Yeah, I'm sure you were in the halfway house too, right? Yeah, I was in the halfway house a couple times.

In Waterbury? I was in the Renaissance on Central Avenue. I was in the Renaissance East. And I was in, years ago they had halfway house in Torrington. I don't think it's halfway else anymore. I think it's just a drug program called the Warner House. So the third time, what happened to get, were you on probation? They jammed you up?

Yeah, so I got caught this time with drugs and the gun, so they gave me a little more time this time. They gave me 15 suspended after six with five years probation. So you had to do six years? Yes. So altogether that was six, two, eight, and then five is, or at three, right? Six, two, and three? Yeah, so far we're up to 11.

Wow. you served 11 years in prison overall. So far. Well, we don't want you going back to prison. Hold on. I've been to prison two more times after that. Oh, after that? Yes.

So all in all, how much time in prison do you think you spent? I did two more three-year bids after that, after the six. So another six? Yes. And those, I'm assuming, were probation violations? Yes. So were all your sentencing sentences stemmed from that first initial case and you just kept getting violated on probation?

Yeah. It's a never-ending revolving door. I'm off probation now, though. When did you get off? USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your

auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. Oh, no. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more

than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Save up to 30% your first year at at LifeLock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. Um, 2020. So you got, your case is dated all the way back to like 1999. So that's 20 years of being on probation. I've been on and off since 93. Man.

And you said 49, right? Well, I'll be 49 in September. All right. But that's like your whole life almost, your whole adult life on probation. What does it feel like now to finally be off of that and not having that over your shoulder? It's amazing.

Yeah. Probation is just, you know, how do you feel like when cops are around you now? I feel nervous all the time. Yeah, I'm like that too. cops coming and buy grinders and I feel uncomfortable. You know, I just, you know, I mean, I'm polite to them and everything. I don't show it, but, you know, my stomach starts turning.

Yeah, no, I'm like that too. You could be doing everything right and you just, it's there, you know, and it's not because your anti-law enforcement is just, it's scary, you know? Mm-hmm. And I don't know if everyone kind of acknowledges that or they understand that sometimes when you've been through situations like that's traumatic. You know, we had a psychologist on that was saying what you're, experiencing his PTSD.

I've seen some of that episode. Yeah. I mean, he's spot on. If you're in prison for more than three months, there's a good chance that you're suffering from PTSD afterwards. Mm-hmm. Every time I drive by a cop, a cop, pulls up behind me, anything like that. It's scary.

Mm-hmm. So that third time you went to prison. Yes, I got six years. Why did you have a gun? Why did you escalate to having a gun? I bought it off of one of my customers. They just want drugs. They said here is a gun?

Yeah. Yeah, they sold me a gun for drugs. Did you feel like your life was in danger or something? No. Do you feel like it needed to go along with the persona of being a drug dealer? Maybe. Maybe that's what that played a part into it, too, maybe. I mean, I didn't feel like I was in a situation, but I don't know.

But you knew you couldn't have a gun as a felon. Mm-hmm. So this is just escalating it and... Yes. So you get caught with the gun and sent to jail yet again. Are you running into people that you had met before? Are they saying we knew you'd come back, that type of? Well, when I went back, when I went back the third time, you know, I had six years.

I got, you know, I went through the classification system and everything. And then I got, I arrived at Osborne, correctional institution. I don't know. Osborne is an old prison in Connecticut. It's run down. No, A.C. It's dirty. It's, you know, it's one of the worst prisons in Connecticut. I don't mean worse, like, as far as violence and stuff. I just mean, like, run down and raggedy and, you know what I mean? Like, it's dirty. And I've seen one of my friends there. And when I went to trial and he told me to try it again to the tier four. program, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a drug program, but it's like a special unit where the house just, just them, you know, it's separated from the rest of the prison. And I heard, and he said they got AC over there. So, hey, you know, I'm not doing nothing. I'm just sitting in the cell, you know, so I applied for it. And I remember my cell, he was like, nah, you don't want to go there. That's where all the snitches are. You don't want to go there. It's, it's, it's, it's,

You know, you made it sound like it was bad and it's real strict. The inmates are, you got the inmate police there, the ITF. That's what they call them, ITF, inmate police. What were these inmate police guys doing? They're actually peer mentors in the program. So anyways, you know, I get there and I'm told all the rules. You can't, also at all, like you can't, you know how you said you made like the cheesecakes and stuff? You can't do that over there.

You know, in prison prior to me drawn, I've done, I've been versatile. I've made like the little candy ball things. I've sold the coffee ball things. I've sold tobacco. I've, you know, I've done all kinds of different things. So now I'm in a unit where I can't do anything, and I don't have anybody on outside sending me money or anything, you know.

So, and, you know, a lot of people, and a lot of people who have never been to prison before, they don't really understand. When you're in prison, you need money. You got to be able to support yourself, you know. So I noticed like Like through the years I've been in prison The person is sitting on this bunk drawing

Doing hankies and and drawing portraits or whatever He always had whatever you needed Nobody ever bothered them You know so so And I noticed in that unit there wasn't any art There wasn't anybody really doing any art or anything So um I figured I'll just

You know I'll just practice just try to do something you know So I just kept practicing and practicing. People would laugh at me. Well, they wouldn't laugh at me, but, you know, they'd say, you know, negative remarks and stuff. You know, like, you know, it's not for you or whatever. And I just kept doing it and doing it. I would sit there for eight hours a day every day, practicing, drawing photos. And then eventually, like, I just started getting better and better.

This was, like, around the time of Hurricane Katrina to give you an idea when I started. and I would just do that every day. I would just sit in the middle of the day room, like during rec time, I would just sit in the middle so everybody could see me drawing. I'd do it every day. I just kept getting better and better and better. Then people started coming to me,

hey, can you draw my wife or can you draw my kid and can you do this and do that? And then before you knew it, I had like a stack of photos and it was just like, that's just what I started doing every day. Do you think that that was like always in you and you just need to go through this to discover what your actual passion and life was? People say that all the time that I always had it in me.

I just say, no, I don't believe that. I think I earned it. Me saying eight hours a day, where everybody's playing cards and playing poker and doing whatever they're doing, and I'm just staying in the corner just doing that. I think I earned it. I don't think I always had it.

Yeah. Well, you know, sometimes things like that, the art, like I couldn't do that. I feel like no matter how much I practice I think if you sat there in practice eight hours a day for X amount of years, you'll be just as good as me. My handwriting's atrocious. Mine is too.

But you're able to draw it. So how are you able to turn that into a hustle? How much are you selling like a portrait for? And how are you making money from that? Man, at first I was taking whatever. People would give me a bar of soap. Here, draw my, can you draw some flowers on the card for me? or can you do this or can you do that?

I'd take, you know, borrow soap, whatever. I didn't care. Something's, it's free. You know what I mean? And then little by little, I would just start charging more as I was getting better, you know. I was drawn mostly faces, and I started out charging $3 for a portrait.

And from $3 to $5, and $5 to $6, $7 to $10. That sounds a pretty lucrative hustle in prison. I remember guys for selling we were talking about earlier, the birthday cards and whatnot. Those would go for like 10 or 12 bucks even more, which is, that's pretty expensive for a hustle in prison. Did anyone have any, like, weird requests? Um, you know, not really a weird request,

but like sometimes, like, people, like, they have, like, their growl, they'd have, like, messed up teeth or something. They'd ask me to try to fix it. And every time I do it, it doesn't look like the person anymore. And then it just, you know, I got to the point where I told people, I'm not changing. I'm drawing it like it is on the picture and that's it. Don't ask me to change nothing.

Did you have a favorite that you like to do? Would you rather do portraits of people? Would you rather do animals? Like, did you have anything like that? I'm mostly majority. I mostly did portraits. Portraits. I probably did like I could count on my hand

as far as projects that weren't portraits. Now, did you have clients in prison you wouldn't work for? Like say they were a choma or like a murderer or anything. like that, would you stay away from those types of people? Yeah, I wouldn't draw off, not for a sex offender. Okay. It's like that in prison in general, right? Like you're not allowed to do business with them.

Yeah. But some of the Chomos, at least when I was in prison, had hustles and guys would buy stuff from them. Was that like that over there? I mean, nobody, none of my friends or nobody I dealt with would deal with them, but some people would, you know what I mean? Yeah. Now, you said you were making candy in prison.

Yeah, that was another hustle that they were doing in the Connecticut prison. They would take two jolly ranchers, and they would melt them down and throw some skittles and a little bit of coolade in the middle and roll them up like balls and saw them for a soup. And what that tastes like? Was it good? Was it, like, chewy or was it hard? It was, like, hard with, like, I mean,

And they got all different kinds of stuff going on. But the candy balls, they were like hard candy with, like, collating skittles in the middle. They were pretty good. But, I mean, they made, like, taffies, all kinds of stuff. I don't know if they did all that stuff in the feds. They would make taffy. They would make little protein balls was the protein balls were a huge one.

Yep. Coffee balls? No, we'd have, like, protein balls. But tell us about the coffee ball. How would you do that? It would be, like, a scoop of coffee, a couple of, um, um, um, um, sweetmates. Is that what you guys had

and fed? Sweet meats. To fake sugar, like the spund up was sweet. Yeah, yeah. We had that. Yeah, throw a couple of those in there

and have a spoon of creamer and then people would sell those for a soup. Was it good? I mean, it's a cup of coffee. Yeah, we ate so much creamer because creamer was literally in every creation. When I made the cheesecake,

you would put two of those jars of creamer in it and that would help lock it up with the lemon juice. Definitely not good for you. Yeah. So interesting. All right, so you started drawing your hustling, and then you end up getting out. Yes. But you go back to street life yet again.

Yes, I got out in 2009. I was in Toington and a halfway house. I ended up getting a job at McDonald's. I tried to draw a little bit at the halfway house, like try to, you know, get a couple customers. But back then it was still, like, the internet wasn't. what it is today. This is back when MySpace and Facebook was still in transition mode. Yeah, like 2011.

2009, 2010. Okay. Yeah. So, so it wasn't like it is now, you know. I try to get the drawing thing going, but, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't nothing really at all. I think I drew two portraits when I came home. I drew one for my landlord. and one for somebody else and a halfway else, and that was it.

So I ended up getting a job at McDonald's. I stayed here for three years. The whole time I was there, I was looking for work. I couldn't get another job nowhere else. I was living with these Mexican guys that worked at the McDonald's. They each had like three jobs, and they had a room that they were renting me. It was horrible. I did it for like, I did it for three years.

I was struggling just barely able, just barely, making my rent sometimes I'd have to oh um $20 till next week or whatever and then um eventually I just went back to doing the bad stuff again and lasted about 18 months and went back to go back

Do you feel like kind of defeated and beat up from the the painting thing not working that time because it seemed like you were passionate about it you finally found something and um it wasn't working Yeah, a little bit. Did you also feel like you were trying to do everything right, following the rules, working a job, and you just couldn't get ahead? Yes. And do you think a big part of that was because of your record, why you couldn't get a job?

Not having a record. Not having a vehicle. I'm not having a vehicle because I don't have a decent job. You know what I mean? It's just like, you know, a whole circle of things. Yeah, and you can get stuck. What advice would you give to someone that feel stuck like that? Don't give up because it could get worse.

And you experienced it getting worse? So what ends up happening next? You get in trouble for drugs? Is that what you went back to? Yes. I end up going back for drugs again. I got three years again. It seems like three was the magic number. They loved giving you three.

Is it the same judge every time? No. Okay. So I did that, came home, got another job at McDonald's again. You know, and it's funny because I don't look, I don't go looking for McDonald's jobs. That's just the jobs that just keeps hiring me. You know what I mean? It's, you know, shout out for McDonald's, you know, not discriminating.

So do they do hire people with felonies on their record, McDonald's? Yes. at least back then. I haven't worked in McDonald's in a while. Did you feel accepted there at McDonald's? I hate working at McDonald's. I hated it. What was your job there?

I've done it all. I was even a shift manager before. That sounds pretty good. Yeah, but I was only getting paid a dollar more than the other people. Oh, that's it? Yeah. Yeah, supervisor position and shift managers is kind of like, I feel like a scam to have like a semi-manager but not pay them like a manager fee.

They got Whole Foods, a supervisor, only made like a dollar more or $2 more. It's not really worth it for the level of work you got to do. It's tough, man. It's definitely tough out there. So I got out and I got another job at McDonald's, at different McDonald's, obviously. I did that for a little while. Then I got frustrated and went back to the drugs again. It's like a circle, like a cycle.

Yeah. You know, and then end up going to prison. And no one at any time was trying to help you, the court system, anyone? I mean, you know, as far as they're concerned, I'm working at McDonald's. I'm doing good. I'm straight. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah.

That's, you know. I mean, you know, McDonald's is bad, but it's definitely better than doing drugs, believe it or not. Because if you take the amount of years I was in prison, and if I took the money I made from the drugs and spread it out, it's way. less than minimum wage. Yeah, people don't think about that. That fast money quickly might be a lot in the short term, but what are you giving up to get that? Mm-hmm.

You know, it's just, it's crazy when you think about it. So that last time you went. Looking to start 2026 with an unforgettable getaway. Fiji Airway sale is on now. Fly non-stop round trip to Fiji from just 748. Or enjoy a sunny Fiji stopover on your way to Australia with round-trip fair starting from 839. As a one-world alliance member,

and American Airlines Advantage program partner, your miles go further across the South Pacific. Book now at Vigyairways.com or contact your local travel agent. Conditions apply. To prison. That was for drugs again. Another violation. What year was that? That was 2018.

And was your experience in prison different every time because you're getting more acclimated, you're getting more adjusted, you know the lay of the land, you know how things work? Um, a little bit. I mean, jail. It was jail, man.

It's the same, same all. But, um, it was last time when I was in prison, um, I was, I was doing that program again. And I, they made me, they make, they kind of make me do the program if I wanted to get out early. The program did, um, did I volunteer to do once? Once I volunteered to do it, every, it seems like every other time I went back. Now they, they tell me that I have to do. It's like a requirement now.

But anyways, I was in. the program and um and you know everybody everybody loves me in prison for my art you know everybody loves my art like I'm pretty known for drawing you know what I mean so um somebody was told me that I should sign up for a graphic arts class that they have over in um over in that facility I was in now mind you I've been I've been in and out in and out the system a lot and you know I've I've done plenty of programs I've I've gotten some college credits and in prison. I've taken a computer class in prison.

But all the educational things I've taken in prison, when I've gone when I've gone out, they've all been like obsolete or it wasn't really like useful information. You know what I mean? Like, I've taken a computer class and I've gone out

and I tried to apply what I used and it was all like absolute information. Like they don't even use this stuff anymore. Yeah. You know, I've accumulated a a few college credits while I was in prison, but none of them go towards a degree. They're all like elective type classes.

Yeah. You understand what I'm saying? Like, I think they do that just so that way they could look like they're offering stuff like to try to help us when they're really not. You know what I mean? So they can get their tax dollars or money towards it or anything. Yeah, I wonder what like what the data looks like on these. I know the federal prison system has like college credit type things,

but I wonder what the data is of these, you know, places that are offering college courses and the people that are getting the credits or whatever, how that translates into someone that wants to further their education or get a job, like what that looks like, you know. Because me personally, without even looking at any data, I probably think that it's kind of a sham and it's not helpful. And, you know, you're sitting here saying the same thing pretty much. I just don't see because like the education departments in federal prison were ran by inmates and they had teachers

that taught like the college classes but I don't know it's just it's not the same you know so so the guy was telling me to sign up for the graphic arts class and I already had like a bad taste in my mouth for prison educational programs

you know I'd rather just just leave me alone you know what I mean I'm doing I'm doing my program that they want me to do to give me a chance of maybe getting out early, you know, and just let me sit back and draw. I don't want to do any of these stupid jobs for $75 a day or $1.25 a day or whatever they want to pay me.

You know, I don't want to go out and cut grass. I don't want to work in the kitchen no more. You know, because I've been in and out of the system for a while, so I've done a little bit of everything. I've worked in the kitchen. You know what I mean? Like I've tried all the different things. You know what I mean?

You know, it's not something to be proud of that. I've been in there a while to, you know, try working in the kitchen, try doing this, go to school. I've done all these different things. I'm at the point where I just want to be left alone. Just leave me alone, just let me draw and do whatever I got to do to get out and just do my time. You know, I don't want to do any extra things for the department corrections. But the kid was like, nah, the teacher's cool.

I'm telling you you should do it. So I figured I'll give it a shot. I signed up for the graphic arts class, and I'm glad I did. The teacher was amazing. I mean, he wasn't, I'm not going to say he was an amazing teacher because I didn't learn anything about graphic arts. But my first day there, because my boy was like, was like, when you get there, tell him that you draw, tell me you're an artist. So my first day there, I went in, he was teaching the class Photoshop.

I introduced myself and I told him that I draw. He was like, all right, well, your homework is to bring back some of your work. So I brought a portrait that I was working on, and he was working on a portrait for somebody. Like, he's a teacher, but he was doing something like they had nothing to. do with the class. He was just doing portraits for his friends or whatever. So long story short, me and the teacher, we just sat at the table every day until I got released. And we were just there drawn, drawn, you know, I didn't learn anything about graphic arts, but I learned a little bit more about what I already do. And I seen that he was actually taking commissions for his drawings.

He was getting commissions. And that made me a believer that I can go home and do this. Do you think that was that helped change your mindset of not getting back into trouble? That absolutely did because I was, honestly, I kind of felt like I was hopeless. You know what I mean? I felt like I was destined to either struggle for the rest of my life working at McDonald's or whatever or being prison and that's it. You know what I mean? And when I seen him, he told me he was like, I'm getting $300 for this one.

And that, you know what I mean? And he was just doing them every day. And that, like, gave me the hope I need it. That gave me the hope I need it. No, do you think if you got that experience and that, you know, that moment, your first time in prison, you never would have went back those other times? Mm-hmm. Isn't that crazy? We just need something to give us that inspiration. I think if I didn't go to prison for breach of peace, I would have never went back.

I wasn't doing drugs when I went home that time. I was working. Yeah, that kind of set you back on that path. That's why probation is such a screwed up thing. It really does, it's a revolving door and it breaks people down. because you're saying your mindset wasn't even to go back into drugs, but the system forced you back into it. That's, you know, it's, it's something to think about in society.

So coming out this last time, how did you change your life around after that? And why did you never go back? And what did you, what were you able to build your life into? All right. So I got out, so I went up, I was in prison. I went up for parole. They denied me, right? So then I was approved for halfway house

And then the pandemic hit And everything was all screwed up and everything And then my mother, she was worried about You know, me and my mother, we got kind of a strange relationship But we started talking this last time when I was in prison And she was worried about me not making it out of prison Because I have asthma and respiratory issues Obviously you heard me breathing heavy

When I came up the stairs and stuff you know and um and and and the LACLU was they had a lawsuit against the department of corrections and there's a lot of stuff going on and she contacted them and and they came to the prison and interviewed me you know I'm a non-violent offender you know I was only in prison for possession with intent to sell you know no violent charges you know I didn't hurt anybody or anything you know and then um when unexpectedly like like one day it would make maybe like a month or two later, they just called me and told me, packed my stuff. And I went to the halfway house.

And then as soon as I walked in the halfway house, they said, do you have a place to, do you have an address you can go to? I said, let me use the phone. I called my cousin. And she said, I could use her as a sponsor. And then within the month, I was home. That was the last time you ever walked out of prison. Yep. I was in my cousin's basement.

And I was on parole for a few months. and the pro officer asked me what I was doing for work. And I was doing the drawing thing on Facebook and TikTok, and I was getting customers. And I told her exactly what I was doing, and she said, that's fine. She said, just do that. The only thing I wanted you to do is just keep sending me pictures of your artwork because I like your artwork.

So you finally got stuck with someone that actually cared about what you were doing and was giving you some room to do what you wanted to do? Yep. She didn't even pressure me for the job at all. She told me just keep drawing. Just keep doing what I'm doing what I'm doing. And that's it. Because I was a little scared to go outside because when you're in prison and then you're watching the news, you're not in the real world.

All you see all your information is from the news and you see the pandemic and people dying. They're making it sound like, I mean, I'm sure it was bad, but, I mean, they were showing like tractor trailers blowing out dead bodies and ice trucks and stuff like that. I was scared to leave the house. Yeah. So you were able to get through probation, no violations all the way through 2020. Yeah. That's awesome. And was your cousin a good influence on you, too?

Yes. So you just needed that environment. She didn't think that I was going to be able to make money drawn. She was surprised that people were paying what they were paying. I mean, I was only charging like $100 a portrait back then, but she didn't think that people would pay that much. Yeah. And I had like a huge line of customers. So do you have a lot of clients now for your painting?

They come in spurts. They pretty much come in spurts. See, the thing is that when I came home and I was living at my cousin's house and I was just doing like the portraits. I was doing so many portraits and I was just staying in the basement all the time. I didn't go outside.

I didn't interact with anybody except on social media. And after a while, like it started to mess with my head a little bit. Like, I started to feel like I was still in prison in the sense, you know, because I was just like, like, I didn't come out at all. You're so dedicated, yeah. I didn't come out at all. I didn't speak to nobody. I mean, like, when I was around people, I felt weird. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, yeah. Do you feel like you have more of a balance now? I'm working on it because I stopped drawing for a little while. I put the pencils down for a little while. I just picked them up again. Like right before I contacted you. Oh, awesome. Well, perfect timing.

Yeah. What was, like, the inspiration to reach out and talk about your story? Because is your first time ever doing something like this? Because I'm giving it another go with the pencils and stuff. Yeah. Because I had to put them down for a little while. And everybody, like, people kept telling me, don't stop, pick them up, start drawing again. And, oh, I want you to draw this for me.

And I'm just, I need a break. I'm not doing it right now. I don't know. So I figured this would be great for my social media. Oh, absolutely. Do you ever have temptations to get back in the street life at all? Or is that all out of you? That's out of me.

Yeah. You feel like you've finally grown from that? Yeah, it's not. It's not worth it. Like, I told you what a drug dealer makes compared to the time he's in prison, it doesn't pan out at all. It's like less than them wage, like way less.

Yeah. And now if you could go back in time to, you know, your teenage self, the 14-year-old that sold crack for the first time, what advice would you give him? I tell him, look at me now. You know, you could be so much more. Are you happy with your life now? I'm not happy with how my life is now,

but I'm happy with the direction I'm heading in. What do you think that looks like? Like, what's the next five-year plan look like? Um, I don't know, just keep doing what I'm doing, and see what the, um, what the social media takes me. Yeah. It's kind of, it's kind of new to me. I don't really know, I know a little bit about it.

You know, I'm kind of, it's all a learning experience. Social media could open up so many doors. You're the first person I met in real life that makes 11 off of social media. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, and I've been dying to meet somebody that's like a YouTuber that does that for 11. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm here to help you.

You have my number if you ever need any advice. I'm going to lock it in. You shouldn't have said that because now you've done messed up now. No, I was, someone came on the show recently and then they were like, let's, you know, let's talk, let's connect. And I gave him my number and he didn't think I would actually follow up when they reach out because people say that, you know. And reality is people get busy.

But I try my best. Like, if people stay on top of me and they call me and reach out, I might not always be the one to reach out first. but if you need something, you know, anyone that's been on the show and stuff and they have my contact information, if they reach out, I'll get back to them. It's just so hard to have, like, casual conversations because I'm just, I'm so busy. Like, people want to say, hey, how are you doing this and that? But if you said, Ian, I need your help. Like, let's set up a call and, you know, teach me this, this and this, then I'm not, I'm not ever going to tell someone no.

And if I don't respond to your text, just text me again and say, hey, can we make this happen? And that's just a reality of it. And I think there should be more people like that in the world because we're all here to help each other. And I don't charge for the knowledge I gained because no one charged me, you know, when I was learning. And anyone that follows like the social media people that charge you for this type of knowledge, literally look on YouTube, you know, or you could contact me and I'll try to help the best I can. But Danny, thank you so much for coming on the show today and talking and connecting. and, you know, I hope you take me up on the offer to use a studio sometime to record for your YouTube channel and whatever you need. Definitely.

And we'll have all your links in the description of this, and hopefully some people hire you for some paintings. Mm-hmm. But, yeah, safe travels back to Waterbury, and, you know, I wish you the best with everything. All right, thank you. I appreciate you. Thanks for having me here.