Locked In with Ian Bick - Ex Con Reveals How He Built A Criminal Enterprise In Prison | Frank Rodriguez

Episode Date: November 5, 2023

YouTuber Frank Rodriguez comes on the show to talk about overcoming addiction, surviving immigration jail as a teenager and building a criminal enterprise while he was in prison. Thank you so much to FACTOR for sponsoring this episode: Go to https://www.factor75.com/pages/podcast?c=LOCKEDIN50&mealsize=8-1&c_comms=PERCENT&utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=podcast50off&utm_content=act_podcast_podcastads&vs_campaign_id=07a8da85-76a7-4540-8dc1-4e6861f6b4c8 and use code lockedin50 to get 50% off your first box. Follow Ian Bick on Instagram: @ian_bick & Snapchat: ianbick Connect with Frank Rodriguez: INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/kingfrank_/ YOUTUBE: https://youtube.com/@MORALSOVERMONEY1?si=Y768-0IEQeHmqF66 TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@kingfrank_5?_t=8h3KtA9FXGo&_r=1 Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Connect with Ian Bick: https://www.ianbick.com Time Stamps: 00:00:00 - Family Addiction and Childhood Struggles 00:02:58 - Growing up surrounded by crime and addiction 00:06:23 - Traumatic Experience and the Start of Drug Addiction 00:09:14 - Envying Normal Families 00:11:48 - Relationship with Father after Mother's Death 00:14:56 - Complicated Love for Abusive Parents 00:17:57 - Using Pain as Motivation 00:21:07 - Robbing the Burger King 00:24:15 - Reflections on the Robbery 00:27:08 - Holiday Meal Planning with Factor  00:29:56 - Going to Prison at 16 Years Old 00:32:57 - Prison Conditions and Juvenile Sentencing 00:35:38 - The Cuban Riots in the 1980s 00:38:33 - Segregation in County Jails 00:41:27 - Solitary Confinement and Prison Treatment 00:44:17 - A Confrontation in Prison 00:47:18 - The Reality of Prison Phone Calls 00:49:56 - From Addiction to Indictment 00:53:17 - The Effects of Painkillers on Emotion and Physical Pain 00:56:15 - Consequences of Addiction in the Family 00:59:20 - The Dangers of Stamping Bags 01:02:13 - Surviving in Prison with Money 01:04:59 - Making Money in Prison 01:07:52 - Transitioning from a Criminal Enterprise to a Career as a Barber 01:10:51 - Making Mistakes and Learning from Crisis 01:13:32 - From Illegal Activities to Entrepreneurship 01:16:28 - Working with Addicts and the Homeless in Kensington, Philadelphia 01:19:27 - Moving Forward and Future Goals 01:22:41 - Gratitude and Perspective 01:25:44 - Appreciating Relationships 01:28:28 - Connecting through Shared Experiences Produced by: https://www.instagram.com/shanedanahy https://www.shanedanahy.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And he was like, yo, I need to use the phone. And I didn't, you know, I didn't get off the phone. And I had this, I had used the phone like five, six, seven calls in a row. After I get off the phone, you know, the phone shut off like a half an hour before lockdown, he comes to me and tells me. Next time I tell you to get off the phone, get off the phone. When he said that, I was like, you know, in my head, I was like, who are you talking to? He's a grown man, though.

I went into my cell, closed the door, and started using the bathroom. I just heard the door creak open, and that was it. He came in, hit me in the head with a plunger. A plunger? Yeah. The handle was, you know, like a wooden plunger. And then we started fighting. What I, I was defending myself.

That's when I realized that I was 15, I might have thought in my head that I was an adult. And I had fights with grown men prior to this. But it was different in the street. On today's episode, we have Frank Rodriguez, a former addict with a YouTube following of nearly 200,000 subscribers. subscribers to share his story of addiction, surviving immigration jail at 15 years old,

building a criminal enterprise within the prison walls during his second prison bid, and how he was able to turn his trauma into a message of hope for others. Listen up, everyone. Please join me in thanking our delicious sponsor, Factor. Choose from 34-plus weekly flavor-packed dietitian-approved meals ready to eat in just two minutes. head to Factor Meals.com slash Locked in 50 and use code Locked in 50

to get 50% off. I love, love, love factor, and I can't wait for you guys to try it. They've been a huge supporter of the show and their meals taste absolutely phenomenal. Sit back, relax, and get ready to lock in with Frank Rodriguez. All right, Frank, let's get into it, man.

Welcome to the show. You're coming to us today from Philly area, right? Pennsylvania. Yeah, central Pennsylvania. I do a lot of work in Philly. I moved outside of Philly when I got clean and just to get away from the chaos. Well, we appreciate you coming, making the drive out here.

It's a pleasure to have you and excited to jump into your story. Let's get into the beginning of it. Where are you from? Where were you born? What's like that early childhood life like for you? Yeah, first of all, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I was born in Brooklyn, New York in 1980 to, you know, my mother and my father growing up.

My family, everybody was addicts. Everybody was addicted to heroin, literally the only person that wasn't. And my household was my grandmother, my mother's mom. Besides that, my mother, my father, my aunts, my uncles, everybody was addicted to heroin. And at the time that, you know, in the early 80s, where I grew up, was the Williamsburg area south side of Brooklyn, where now it's like super gentrified, real nice. But at the time, it was a real big open-air drug market.

You know, pretty much like in Kensington, it's, you know, it was like that. So, you know, addiction was prevalent. you know, violence was extremely prevalent. So my, we moved out of there. When I was about seven years old, my father, he was in the streets real heavy at the time. And the time, it was a lot of gangs in New York. And he got shot in a throat.

So he was paralyzed in the hospital. And then we realized, well, my parents realized that it was time for a change. So moved to Pennsylvania. And it was a change of location, but everything still sort of continued. You know, the drugs still continued. My father, at that time, he regained, like,

movement to his legs and stuff like that so he could walk around, but you would have pronounced, a very pronounced, limp and, you know, all that. So through work, he started to realize that the people, how easy access guns were in Pennsylvania. And they weren't like that in New York. So they started him and some of his friends and also, you know, my uncle started trafficking

guns and stuff. And like I said, that was, you know, that was, it was a change of scenery but not a change and behavior. How old were you when you moved to Pennsylvania? Eight years old. Eight years old. Yeah.

So like your whole life, you just, it was always surrounded by crime. Yeah. And drugs. Yep. Do you think your parents' addiction trickled down to you, how you would get into doing drugs? No, no. So if anything, it was, it was the opposite. I seen what drugs did.

And I didn't want to be, you know, I didn't want to be, I didn't want anything to do with it like that. when I was a teenager, you know, I smoked marijuana socially and stuff like that, but it wasn't, it, it wasn't, you know, like I seen what my parents did and, you know, and like it planted a seed in me. I didn't realize, though, that the effects that me having two parents that are addicts, you know, hereditary, you know, that addiction being, being something that I have to worry about, down the line because I never I didn't pick up any any hard drugs until um you know in my early 20s and uh my mother was killed in a car accident and I had to identify her body so that night I like tried to go to sleep couldn't sleep all I seen was my mom laying on that cornerist lab and then um two days later a family friend that was a nurse gave me some pills and was like here why don't you take these these will help you to get some sleep you know and she was just it wasn't like

she was sneaking me to pills for me to get high or anything it was literally just to be like you need to get some sleep you need to relax and that ended up you know turning into pill addiction and pills let's snorting heroin then let's a shooting heroin so that traumatic experience was like the trigger for you yeah absolutely absolutely 100% um i think if that wouldn't happen i would have never you know because I had a kidney surgery and I was prescribed percocets and I literally took one and left it in my medicine I was like I didn't like it I was like this put me to sleep I left it in my medicine cabinet for like two years and then I reached for them when those three pills ran out that she gave me

well kind of kid were you before you started the drugs like how would your friends describe you if we had them here today um so earlier all the way up from very early um I always had a problem with authority, male authority, because of my father. My father was physically abusive to me. You know, he was very physically abusive. And I seen that with my mother also. So I was the type of kid that thought I could solve my problems with my hands, you know.

And so that was, you know, I was always fighting, you know, violence was. very prevalent in my life and because when my father when my father my mother they divorced when I was young you know maybe 10 years old if that we my mom didn't have money she was a nurse but she was a functioning addict so all the money went to to drugs so I started selling drugs at a very young age just to literally help my mom out you know give her a couple extra dollars I used to put money in an envelope and leave it on their dresser and write on there, you know, don't ask me any questions. And she wouldn't.

Do you think she knew what you were doing? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It must have taken her a lot of strength to not say anything to you because she knew she was probably in a cross path of, you know, she needed the money, but she also didn't want you to do something illegal to get you the money. Yeah. And once again, like crime was so prevalent in my family. Drug dealing wasn't frowned upon, you know, everybody, all the males of my family.

Um, sold drugs, you know, we're involved in, in some type of way up to that point. So it wasn't, you know, it wasn't looked upon, it wasn't like a normal, to say normal family where you'd be like, oh, something's wrong. You know, it was, all right, if you're going to do it, be smart, you know, that type of thing. Were your friends families like that at all? No. So did you envy your friends at all for having like a normal family?

Uh, I did the, the, the friends that I had that had two parents. in there, I did. And the ones that even look like they sort of lived a normal life. You know, like I didn't, I didn't like to have people come over to my house because, you know, the police are raiding the house on a normal basis. You know, to me that was embarrassing.

And also, once I got a little bit older, you know, when I was younger and I'd see my mom nodding off and, you know, I'd have to take the cigarette off or pick it up from the floor, stuff like that. I thought that was normal. I thought that's what happened in everybody's home. until I got a little bit older and started going other friends' house. And I was like, hold up.

This, you know, what's going on in my house ain't going on in everybody's house. So I started to realize, you know, all right, something's a little different here. And, yeah, I was a little envious of, you know, just normal families. You know, I think that's really powerful to reflect on because us as kids growing up, we're in school with individuals and we judge people based on their looks or their clothing or their attitude and stuff, and we don't realize that they could be living a very different life,

even though they're literally feet away in the same town. They could have a whole different experience. Absolutely. And I think especially when we're young, right, we think what we're exposed to, we think that's normal until we start to get a little bit older and realize, like, hold up, this isn't normal, you know?

Yeah. And it makes you wonder how many, like, decisions are influenced by other people's actions, like when they're watching that. Like, if you thought, that that was normal, that influenced your decisions to come. So if anyone was watching you, you could have had an influence. And even your parents' decisions, that influenced you.

And it's just like a whole line. It develops like that chaos that you and a lot of other like former addicts talk about. That's like a trigger for them in their life. And I think that's like chaos that we crave at times. You know, like I'm comfortable. I'm very comfortable in chaos where other people would be like, you know, nervous or get scared for me that's my comfort zone i'd be like all right this is like home damn here and you've also seen shit i feel like the people that have gone through like shit like the people

that go to prison you know whether you go away for a month or 10 years or whatever you know you just it's it makes you like in this group of individuals that understand like i understand you yeah because i've been where you are and other people don't get that yeah i i agree with you 100% what was your relationship with your father after your mother died? Did it get better or did it get worse? So for a very short period of time, it did. Me and my father, so right before my mother passed, me and my mom were, I wasn't speaking to her. Let me rephrase that. So my sister had a boyfriend that he was, he was, you know, a big drug dealer. And I ended up robbing him probably about three months before my mother passed.

and my mom was upset because up to that time I had came home I was doing good um I got like my own little apartment I got a car you know and I was just putting a found setting a foundation so my mom got upset with me she was disappointed she was like you know what are you doing you just came home from doing um you know I up to that point I had you know just came home from doing like eight or nine years in jail. And she was like, you're doing good. What are you, what are you doing? But I seen it as her taking my sister's side, you know, and that was probably my justification also. So I stopped talking to her. And then Thanksgiving comes around. I don't go to her house. And prior to this, we're very close family. Thanksgiving, I don't come, you know, December 13th is her birthday.

Don't show up. Christmas, don't show up. New Year. family like had a sort of lie to get me in the same room with her and then when I seen her you know I left and then she followed me outside real quick and was like look I love you you know she was you know just was like I love you miss you and then I left and then like the next day something didn't sit well in my stomach you know my soul I just knew something I had no idea you know what was going to happen obviously but something just didn't sit right and was like you need to stop being stubborn and go speak to your mother, you know. And then the next day I went, you know, to go speak to her.

As I was coming into the house, she was going out. So she said, you know, just hold on. I'll be right back. I was like, all right. And next thing I know, I'm getting a call saying, you know, she was involved in a car accident. It's dead. Wow. Do you carry a lot of regret from that?

It's gotten better. I did. I did for years. It's gotten a lot better where, you know, I try not to live with regrets now. I just realize that, you know, stuff happens in life. We can either let it take control of us or we can take control of it. But I did. That was, you know, the source of my addiction, source of a lot of anger.

Everything I was literally on, you know, like a path of destruction after that. and uh you know i just i just learned to realize like you know i don't control nothing but you know between fingertip to fingertip that's all everything else um i have to learn to accept even if i don't like it now regardless of the fact that your your father abused you and it was a household that wasn't necessarily normal did you think looking back on it now that you loved your parents yeah yeah absolutely um my mom was like my mom was like my heart. We had the type of relationship, you know, I didn't really lie to my mom, hide stuff from her. She could ask me and I'd be like, yeah, you know. So we had, you know, we being in jail, she was,

I count on, you know, seeing her once, you know, every month or something like that, you know. So it was, me and my mom had a very, very good close relationship. Me and my father, not so much. But you still loved him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why do you think we love people that hurt us? I don't know. I don't know. Be honest with you.

I don't know. Like even my father now, I haven't talked to him in years. And it's funny, my son, just yesterday, my son has never met my father. My son's 10 years old. He's never met my father. And he just asked me. He said, Dad, let me ask you something. He's like, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but where's your dad at?

I said, well, where do you think he's at? You know, I just wanted to see what he had to say. And he said, maybe, like, in Florida, someplace nice because I know he's in a wheelchair, and maybe he, like, wants to enjoy the later years of his life and stuff like that. And I just wanted to hear his perspective without being influenced, you know, because I don't talk about my dad to him at all.

I won't allow them to meet, you know, just because of inconsistencies, like, you're not going to come in my son's life. and then not be around for a year, you know, especially kids that age they, you know, he wants a grandfather. He doesn't have a grandfather, you know, from not my side or his mother's side. So, you know, he wants a grandfather, I'm sure. So even to this day you still would say that you love your father?

I don't know, to be honest with you. I care about him. I don't want a bad to happen to him, but, you know. Would you say it's like that concept of loving someone from a distance? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It makes you think, you know, like when you go back to it, like even the people that create us or that give us a lot of harm and difficulty in our lives,

we tend to gravitate towards those people. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder like if it's just the concept of a father, you know what I'm saying? Or like love in love with the idea of it. Yeah. You know, because. because, yeah, I don't, you know, like, unfortunately, if my father was to pass away tomorrow, my life don't change. You know what I mean?

So, yeah. There's just a lot of, there's a lot of baggage that comes with it. Absolutely. Yeah, there's, like, there's so much to decompress and think about. So for an outsider, if you told them that, they're going to be like, oh, you got to see your father, this and that. Of course. But when you sit down, you talk about everything that he put you through, it's different. but it doesn't sound like you have like anger towards him.

Yeah, no. But I did. I did for years. And then I realized, once again, I can't control nothing. You know, so it's like my father didn't have a father. You see what I'm saying? So he don't know how to be a father. I didn't realize all this stuff until I started having children and started becoming a father

and realized like, okay, you know, I think we either use our past. And, you know, the stuff that maybe we didn't have, we can either use it, like, as fuel or we can use it as excuses to continue the cycle, or we can use it as fuel to be like, no, that's not it. I love that. Yeah. I believe in that heavily. Like, anytime there's pain, you take that shit, that's unlimited motivation.

Absolutely. 100%. Like, you can't find better, no energy drink, nothing. Yeah, nothing. Like, not even looking at other people, it's pain that will cause someone to, change. Yep. Did you graduate high school? No, I went to jail. I was 15 years old. 15, you went to jail? Yeah, I was 15.

Walk us through as an adult. Yeah, walk us through what happened. So I was 15 summer of, it would have been, you know, like 94, 95. I was starting in no school. And I wanted money for clothes. I wanted money to, you know, to have nice clothing like everybody else in the school. Prior to that, I had been arrested, you know, for selling drugs numerous times,

um, had been in boot camps, placements, foster homes, um, secure lockups, everything you could think of. And I was selling drugs prior to that.

And I had made money selling drugs. And then I, I met like my first serious girlfriend. And she was like, look, I don't want you to, to sell drugs anymore. Um,

so I stopped selling drugs. And I think I was also like craving some normalcy, you know. And right around this time, my mom had started getting clean. And I, you know, summer was coming to end. And I realized, you know, I had just got kicked out of, expelled from the school that I was in ever since I was young for, I got into a fight with, you know, with a teacher. And I was starting a new school district. want to make a good impression so I said you know I know my mother or family I'm not going to get you know nice clothing so I decided all right let me go and uh do a robbery I had a friend that

worked at a Burger King and he knew he was like look you know these certain days they they um you know they don't deposit their money I guess every day so he's like if you wait for this day you know it's three or four days added up you know and it's going to be $20,000, you know, so that's what we said. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return

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I did it do. Me and two other friends, they got caught right at the scene. I ended up getting picked up like a week later. Wait, you robbed a Burger King. How does that go down? Like, how do you stage a robbery at a Burger King? So I waited to everybody, wait till the store was closed. I know they got to come out and deposit that bank, that bag of money.

So I'm waiting for them. you know, to come out, deposit the money. It was 1 o'clock in the morning. And we wait. It's an armed robbery. So the thing that prior to that, there was a couple, there was a couple other armed robberies that had taken place right in that same area.

And there was one of the ladies got shot in the eye. She got shot in the face. Ended up losing her eye. So the police were, you know, patrolling a little bit more. They were like, all right, you know, let's see what's going on. So literally in the middle, as soon as I get the bag of money, I'm going to cross the street and I almost get hit by a cop. The cop car that just happens to be, you know, running his route.

He knows that there's been robberies at this certain time of night. You know, sort of the same thing. I think people going to deposit money. and literally almost, you know, hits me as I'm going to run across the street. And then that was it from there. But he didn't know that you were robbed the blaze. So you had a gun yourself. Yeah.

And you pointed it at the individuals to get the money. Yeah. Did you have the intent to use the gun at all or you were just? I sort of knew that in my head we sort of knew like, all right, this is, you know, we don't even really have to. It's not that type of, you know, it's not that type of. of um it's not that type of party we you know we we we don't even have to um use anything for us you know you just go and grab it be like all right let's go um yeah so it was it was it afterwards you know i remember getting picked up and thinking like this turned out

it could have went very bad you know it could have went very bad literally when i tell you that like i'm running across street and the cop car almost hit me where when they ended up picking me up, you know, a week later, the cop told me he's like, you're lucky you didn't get killed, you know. He said, you know, you're dressed in all black, you got a ski mask on. You had the ski mask when the cop almost hit you.

Yeah, listen, it was from here to the, to your refrigerator. Wow. I'm shocked that the cop didn't say anything that you had the ski mask on. He was in his car. He's driving. So he literally, I, if I would have,

10 seconds either way, he would have not, you know, he sort of literally interrupted the robbery. 10 seconds either way, he would have went. And 10 seconds, you know, the ladies would have been saying, yo, somebody just robbed us. You know what I mean? Do you ever think about how they felt when you were pointing the gun at them? Yeah, when I got older. Even at that time I did because I, I, I, we didn't know. exactly who it was going to be. You know what I mean? All we knew is that there usually there's a

male that goes with them. So in my head, that's what I was thinking. And I, you know, I've always been, I grew up in a household full of sisters. I have daughters. I'm very protective over women. So that was, that was a little weird. And, you know, but at the same time, It was like, all right, this is what it is, you know, it's, you know, there's no turning back now. Did you ever get a chance to, like, make peace with those individuals? No, I didn't. I didn't. So for stuff like that, I always feel like I could say something.

You know, I could apologize to you. But I think the biggest thing that I could do is change behavior. You know what I mean? I can make amends with you or I can sort of like make amends with everybody that I call. I'm in contact with, you know, so I just try to. Your actions, yeah. Exactly. Action speak louder than words?

Yeah. How much money did you end up getting when you sat down, wherever you sat down? It was like $23,000. So you got what you were expecting to get? Yeah. And would you guys all meet up and start dividing it? They got locked up. They got caught on the scene.

They got right away from, you know, within five minutes, ten minutes. How did they get caught and you got away? I don't know, to be honest with you. Like, that's something we never spoke of. I just know. so there was for me in my mind there was you could head you know if you went right you were going to a city where I think they would expect us to come from so I went the other way you know I was like I know they're probably going to expect they're going to be watching for us to cross the bridge to go

back to that city so I headed the other way and and there was numerous times where they almost caught me you know what I mean like one time I was laying like in a little ravine or a creek. Another time I was on top of a coal train, you know, like there's a power plant and I hop the fence over the power plant. And, you know, when I got back, I was, my clothes were all ripped up. I was soaked. I was, you know, cut up from jumping over fences and it was a mess. What's your mindset? Because 23,000 is a lot for someone your age that comes from no money. I had been selling drugs prior to that. So you were making money. Yeah. I had just stopped selling drugs because of my girlfriend.

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Head to factormeals.com slash locked in 50 and use code locked in 50 to get 50% off your order. That's code locked in 50 at factor meals.com slash locked in 50 to get 50% of your order. off your order. As always, huge thanks to Factor for supporting the Lockton with the NBIC podcast. Looking back on it, do you think that robbery was worth it for that amount of money? No. For everything that would come next? Not at all. Would you have rather you stuck with selling drugs? Do you ever think about that? What the outcome of that would have been? No. So I always, you know, I'm the type of person. I just realized that there's no coincidence in life for me. That's sort of the way things were supposed to go, you know.

Now, your mom died right around that time period. No, no, no, after I had came home from doing that time. How much time do you get on that first robbery? Seven and a half. You got seven and a half of year? For the robbery, I got two years. I had ended up getting aggravated assault. And, you know, and so there was, I had, I did two and a half years for the robbery.

And then I had time that I had got from an aggravated assault. So it came out to me doing right around eight years. years, you know, when it was all said and done up to the point where my mom died. Now, they sent you right away to prison? No. So I went to a juvenile lockup for two weeks, and then I went to a certification hearing. It's called, had the certification hearing. And they asked my input. It was like, you know, what do you want to do? Or, you know, you have, I don't know how much my say counted, but they asked for my input. And I was like, I don't want to go to boot camps, send me to jail.

I get, you know, commissary and phone calls and visits, you know, that's my mind state at that time, not realizing what I was doing, you know. So they send you to a real jail after you waive your rights or whatever you do? Yeah, so right after that hearing, if I'm not positive, like it took effect right after that hearing, I went to the county prison. The county prison I went to was also a federal holdover. So you had all, I understand. nest people that just come from the feds fighting immigration and you had people that were waiting

to go to the feds um so it was it was different than the typical county prison you know you had a lot of people that were there they just got done doing 15 20 years and now they're held up for immigration because they're not residents now is there a lot of like gang activity and stuff in those places um so at the time there wasn't a lot of gangs but there it was definitely a lot of violence a lot because, you know, you're getting, you're getting, it's not just normal county prison, you know, it's essentially like a mini federal prison, you know, a federal penitentiary.

What was the first, like, really crazy violent thing you saw when you were there? I seen, um, it was a Russian dude, he got his neck, slid open, face cut up by, you know, uh, the Russian dude was, you know, he was probably like, like six one, six two. Him and it was a little Chinese dude. They were fighting. He beat the Chinese dude up bad.

And the Russian dude, like, slept on him. And he came behind him. I was literally on the phone watching as everything was happening. And he came, slit his throat, like, you know, two or three times. And then slit his face. And, you know, that was, I was there, I don't know, maybe a couple weeks. And you're seeing that at what, six? years old you are? I was 16 at this time.

Yeah. What do you think of that when you're seeing that at 16? Just watching this all happen. You know, it was scary seeing it, but I was, I had also seen, you know, I grew up in chaos. I had seen a lot of violence. This was a little different,

but it was, you know, it was you know, I sort of, like I was like, you know, this is what it is. And these were grown adults that were fighting. So when I went, when I went into the county prison, at the time you got like a commit package with deodorant, you know, all that little stuff. And they gave you tobacco. And they came and tried to come back and get my tobacco like an hour later. They were like, hold up, you can't

have it. You're a minor. And at this time, I had already knew because when I first went in, they put me in PC because of my age. So I just took my tobacco. I was like, yeah, I'm not giving it to you. You know, I was like, I'm old enough to be in jail, but you're going to tell me I can't smoke. You know, they just put me in jail, but, you know, that's not happening.

Are the, is the system still like that where a 16-year-old can go into a jail like this? Yeah, absolutely. Isn't that a flaw? Like, why is a 16-year-old with grown men? Yeah, 100%, I believe it is. You know, especially now that we understand a little bit more, you know, brain development and all that stuff, where now it's illegal for an 18 year,

you know, somebody under 18 to be sentenced to life in prison. So that shows that we understand the justice system. We understand that, you know, our brains don't develop at that early of an age, but we're still, you know, sort of holding kids to those standards. So it's, you know, it's definitely flawed, I think. Now they have, you know,

At the time, in Pennsylvania, they were building a adult prison. I mean, excuse me, a prison for juvenile offenders, but it was an adult prison. So, you know, when I went, there wasn't many of us. I was the first one in that county specifically that, you know, was sentenced as an adult. And it was, you know, it was weird. How was the food? Was it any good at these? Food was good, yeah.

The food was actually good. Normally you hear at these like federal detention centers, it's not good. No. So we used to have a lot of riots in there because of the food. And I always thought, so I just did a podcast last week. And that's the same thing somebody asked me. They was like, you know, I was explaining to them, you know, we have riots because of the food. And he was like, well, how did you think the food was? And I was like, I thought the food was all right, you know, before that. But remember, I'm a kid also. These are grown men. So they're used to, and they're coming from the federal system where, you know, At the time in the federal system, they had, you know, huge salad bars and all you can eat, basically, you know. So. Yeah, I remember seeing a salad bar. Did they have that at the place you were at? No, no.

Okay. No, they didn't have that. So why would riots, like who started a riot over this? It was always the Cuban dudes. The Cuban dudes. Yeah, it was always. How would they start? Yeah, describe what a riot would go.

They were, so back in the 80s, there was, they're called the Mario Cube. So America, when they were, you know, the Cold War, all that stuff, Cuba and America were basically at odds. So the president, it was Carter Reagan, said any Cuban that makes it here to America, we're going to take you guys as refugees. So Fidel Castro said, okay, opened up all the jails, all the insane asyl, all the hospitals. about all the sexual deviance, everybody that was the worst of the worst, and put them on boats and sent them to America. And said, here, this is what you get. You want my people, take them.

So they ended up, United States penitentiary Atlanta, they ended up, you know, having a ride there, taking the federal prison hostage, killing guards. They were known to be wild, these Cubans. So that's the same type of Cubans that they had there. So it would always be over. They'd be like, we want more rice and we want chicken. That's literally what the riots were over. So they'd tell us, you know, once again, I thought it was all right.

But they'd be like, no, we're starting a riot today. The only people that can eat is if you have, you know, diabetes or medical condition, you're older. Anybody else, the trays come, refuse them or, you know, throw them. that's what it was so they would come you know eventually lieutenant would come down or the ward and be like all right what's going on and everybody refused to lock up and then you know they're sliding tear gas under the door and then coming in there with the with the big shock shields and the batons and you're a part of this yeah because you're just thrown in what what happens yeah but i was at the time i was like yeah let's go you know i was what if you went against that and you decided to eat like if you

took your tray and said, fuck this, I'm eating. Like, what would have happened to you? I'm sure, you know, you held accountable.

You know, you can't do that, you know. So I'm sure, I'm sure there would have been some consequences. To me, I've always been the type of person.

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Unless it's like you have to stay out of certain situations out. Like if the Russian getting his throat slit, you can't get involved in that. No, no, no, that's personal. That's something that they had going on. You know, it was a one-on-one fight, you know. Now, is there politics in these county jails at all? Like, you got to show paperwork. You got to, you know, ride with a certain person.

So at the time, there wasn't paperwork, but everything is segregated pretty much by race. You know what I mean? And what year was this when you went? This was 95. 95. So it's separated by race. Like could you talk to someone of a different color? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You could talk, but you just, you know, we ate with our people, housed with our people. That's just what it was. And once again, it was these people coming from federal prison. So, you know, it was treated like, so it'd be, you know, on the county blocks where we were, there was two blocks that were maximum security. And I would say, you know, if there's a hundred people on the block, there might be five that aren't federal or INS. So, you know, five that would be from the county.

So it was handled just like a federal prison. It was ran like a federal prison. You know, everything was the wardens that they brought in were wardens from federal prisons, you know. When you got there, do the Spanish guys immediately come up to you? No, because. I was in I was in a PC until probably about three weeks. And what I didn't know at the time, but the jail psychologist would be in the bubble. So the bubble was tinted glass.

You know, the guards are in there. There's not guards on the block. And she would be in there and watch the way I interacted with people. So at first they let me have, you know, my wreck, my hour a wreck would be in the block that was that was lockdown. You know, it'd be people RHU, people there for PC and people there for, you know, behavior restrictions. Then when they seen, okay, he can mingle amongst them and he's all right.

Then they started letting me have rec with the maximum security, you know. And they, I didn't know, but the whole time they were just watching and see my interactions to be like, all right, are they going to try to take advantage of him? Are they going to put pressure on them? you know, what's, what's happening here? And then, you know, literally two weeks later, um, they called me up to the, to the Sykes office and said, look, we're going to put you in population.

Do you have, um, are you all right with that? And I had been, you know, right and then being like, yeah, I don't want, I don't want to be in in PC, put me in population. I'll be fine. And, uh, so I was like, no, I'm fine with that. I was happy. What's a PC unit for the listeners that don't know what that is? Uh, so all it is is, is, um, so all it is.

It's a restricted, you know, it's, it's, there it was a restricted housing area. So it's just 23 hours in the cell. You get one hour outside of the cell a day. You're locked in a cell, you know, it's like confinement, solitary confinement. That's what it is, basically. And do inmates get a bad rep for being in PC? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're in PC, that's, you know, that's no good.

That's, you're basically saying, okay, I'm scared to live here. You know, I'm scared to be in jail. So, you know, that's a no-no. I'm surprised a prison system actually cared about your well-being to see if you'd interact. So I didn't realize, once again, until I got a little bit older, but I realized that, like, if anything would have happened to me,

they would have been in trouble. Now, do you think that if you were, like, a sex offender or something, that would have been handled totally differently? No, I don't think so. I think, if anything, they probably would have been more careful. with me. Interesting because so I I'm friends with this kid that his friend recently just went to jail for sexual assault charges and he like kind of tells me what's been going on with him about what's been happening. He's in a state jail in Connecticut and they've been putting this

this kid's young he's in his 20s or whatever and they've been putting them in jails with murderers. It keeps getting extorted and treated like a sex offender would but they're putting them in with guys that are never getting out of prison. So to me it's like yes what he did was wrong but why are you putting him in if he only has a two year sentence why are you putting them in with guys that have life? Yeah. For me I'd be like you shouldn't have came to jail. Yeah. Like we don't get to, nobody else gets to choose who they're, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I was like that at that age 15 I had people that, you know, I was sold up with people that did 20 years. You know, I was sold up with people that were in jail for murder.

And you weren't afraid at all? No, I was all right. You know, I had, there was times where specifically I remember being like, I've been off more than I could chew. You know, 100% I had that. The first fight that I had with an adult in prison, I realized that, you know, I realized that I was like, there's nothing I could do. Yeah, what was that like, your first president fight? So I was 15 years old.

I wasn't even 16 yet. I was on the phone. And there was this guy. He looked like the Asian guy from Bloodsport. If anybody seen that movie, it's like a famous actor. I don't know what ethnicity. But dude, he's big muscle. And he was like, yo, I need to use the phone.

and I didn't, you know, I didn't get off the phone. And I had used the phone like five, six, seven calls in a row. And I seen, I could tell that he wanted to use the phone. You know, he was like pacing next to the phone. I said, you know, I need to use the phone. And I didn't let him use the phone. And then afterwards, after I get off the phone, you know, and phone shut off like a half an hour before lockdown,

he comes to me and tells me, next time I tell you to get off the phone, get off the phone. And, you know, when he said that, I was like, you know, in my head, I was like, who are you talking to? He's a grown man, though. And I was, when I was, I didn't fill out until I was about 18, 19 years old. So I was a very small 15 year old at that. And I remember I was like, who are you talking to, you know, and, you know, had some words with him and went to the bathroom. I went into my cell, closed the door, and started using the bathroom.

And I just heard the door creak open. And that was it. He came in. Hit me in the head with a plunger. A plunger? Yeah. They have plungers in prison? Yeah.

It's a rubber plunger. The bottom was rubber. Okay. The handle was, you know, like a wooden plunger. Did it hurt? Yeah, but not bad. You know what I mean? And then we started fighting.

What I, I was defending myself. I realized that there is, that's when I realized that I was 15, I might have thought in my head that I was an adult. And I had fights with grown men prior to this. But it was different in the street. It was very different. You know what I mean? I'm dealing with somebody who just came from the feds from doing 15 years.

He's in tip-top shape. It was a big difference. I was, you know, he could have, If he wanted to, he could have done whatever he wanted to do. And there was really not too much I could do. Did you win the fight? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. What happens after a fight like that?

Does anyone report it? Do you walk away normal? No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah, so in my head, I was like, all I was thinking about was, I was like, all right, I'm going to stab him or I'm going to cut him. And then there was a Dominican guy that I was cool with, and he came up to me. He said, look, I see what happened. He said, and I knew that was going to happen before you knew it was going to happen.

And he said, and I let it happen. And he was talking to me, giving me, like, guidance. You know what I mean? And he said, he said, you needed that. And I was, and at this time, I'm upset, you know, and he said, he's like, you needed that. He said, I was a knucklehead. I was young.

Like, I was the only one that didn't realize that there's a big difference between grown man strength and a grown man and a 15-year-old. I thought, you know, I thought I didn't think there was much of a difference but size. But I was like, you know, I'll make up for that and hard and all that shit. And I realized it wasn't the same. Did people respect you after that fight? Yeah, yeah.

Now, the situation you just described with the phone thing, we see in every prison TV and movie thing. Is that accurately depicted? And does that happen a lot where someone wants to use the phone? Absolutely. So what I didn't know, and this is something the Dominican dude put me down with, he said you're on the phone talking to your girlfriend he said this man just came from federal court he said he had done 15 years

in the feds he came from immigration court today he said they gave him a bail so that man just did 15 years in in the feds came came to another prison he's been here for two years and he finally got bail so he's calling his family to let them know yo what's going on here I got bail

let's hurry up and make this bail before they decide to pull some other bullshit. And once he told me, I looked at it differently. I was like, damn, I don't care who you are. I don't want to see nobody in jail, unless you're messing with kids.

Other than that, I don't want to see nobody in jail. So I looked at it a little differently. I almost felt like a little guilty. I was still upset, but I almost felt like a little guilty because I was like, damn, I stood in the way of him going home, you know?

And then I could have blew it. What if the person, Police would have seen us fight and you know what I mean. You know, and the next day he ended up going home. And I was happy for him going home, even though he'd just kick my ass. Yeah, the immigration cases, you see a lot of the times guys would serve a long time and then they get picked back up or they have the detainer on them. And they've got to go right to another jail, which is nine times out of ten, way worse than their original jail they just came from. Exactly.

That's what 95% of the population there was. So this is called, like, what, an immigration jail you would say? Immigration holdover is what they called them at the time. INS jails. Wow. And those are, they're not like the best quality of life. I know you said the food is good, but like I was at a private facility in Wyatt and Rhode Island that had like some holdover people for immigration. It wasn't a good spot.

Yeah. No. Like even like the commissary wasn't the best. There, but and at the time I didn't really have much to judge it off of. You know what I mean? That was my first experience. in an adult facility, I thought it was all right. Now, that seven years you did,

was that the only jail time you've ever done? No, I've done 17 years. All together. Yeah. So was that all because of that first case? Like, you were kept being on probation violating? I got indicted by the Attorney General's office for selling drugs. So after my mother was killed, I went back into the streets, selling drugs.

getting money that's where my addiction sort of started the root of it and um about a year after that i get indicted by the attorney general's office um four drugs i get a five to ten um and uh end up serving you know like six years out of it um this was federal or state state state what kind of drugs were you pushing Everything. Everything. And you were using to. I was using pills at the time.

How did that affect your business that you were high? Not at all. Really? Because most people that use while selling, it affects their whole business. Yeah. So, I think, so I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't like at a street level. So it was, it was, you know, it didn't really, it didn't really, it didn't. really have too much of an effect on my, you know, me selling drugs. It didn't really, you know,

take too much of an effect on it. Was it a big operation or was it just like small guy you were working for yourself type of thing? No, I had, I had people working for me. So at the time, at that period, anything that was pretty much coming into the city was, was I had, I had my hands on pretty much. How much do you think you were making? on a weekly basis, I would say So Friday and Saturday, I'm guaranteed, you know, like 20,000 a night. 20,000 one night?

Yeah, but so Friday and Saturday, I had people that would come and buy away specific, you know, so each night is, you know, I'd say, between the two nights, 35 to 40,000. And then the rest of the week, you know, maybe like, maybe five to nine. a day. What's a profit on that in a week?

If you're grossing 40,000. Yeah, so where I was at, I was, so I'll put it like this, a gram of Coke at the time, I was paying like, you know, $17 for a gram of Coke at the time. I was selling it for $150. For one gram? Yep. That's how much coke was back then? And a gram is like the little baggies, like a weed gram baggie, kind of?

Yeah, so a gram a lot of people, like if you go by, um, If you go and buy, you know, what they would consider like a $25 sack or a 50 sack, that's usually like a third of a gram, a fourth of a gram at that time. You know, this was early 2000s or mid-2000s, you know, so, yeah. Are prices like way different now for Coke? I don't even know, to be honest. I know it's not that cheap. Okay.

At this time, there was an abundance. of, you know, Coke, prices were cheap. When someone buys a gram of Coke, how long does that last them? Is that like a one-time thing, or can it last? I don't know, to be honest with you. Just because, like, I've tried Coke twice in my life and had horrible experience both. So it just, I was like, that's not for me.

I don't like being hyper or anything like that. You just like the pills. Yeah. How did the pills make you feel? It took my pain away. It's painkillers. You know, they call them painkillers for a reason. Emotional pain or physical?

Any type of pain you're feeling, you know, you won't feel it at that time. Mental, physical, you know, anything emotional, you're just not going to feel it. You know, they 100% they call them pain killers for a reason. Did the court give you leniency once you got caught that because you were an addict? No, they didn't care. And did that, did they also not care because you had a criminal record to begin with? Yeah. And they, so my case was from like February.

April and they didn't pick me up for almost a whole year. So they had been watching me. Like when I got my discovery for my case, it came in two record boxes. They were watching everything I was doing, whether it was a crime or not. They were just watching everything. They had pictures of me in a bar, pictures of me at a nightclub, pictures of me going to buy a motorcycle. So they realized they were trying to build more of a case, but they just couldn't do it,

um, gratefully. So they, when I, when I went to court and I tried to play the addict role, like they didn't even believe me that I, that I had an addiction at first. They were like,

nah, you know, we're not buying that. Um, we knew what you were doing. We knew, you know, you were making money. We,

you know, they were used to dealing with addicts who, you know, were, um, hustling and support their habit or, you know,

make $100 here, $100 there. That's what they were used to, you know, I think in their head that's what addiction was to them. And at that point were you basically on your own? You didn't really have any family ties? No.

So at that time, my, so as soon as my mother passed, me and my older sister, we moved back home to take care of. We had, you know, there's five of us. So we had young siblings, three and four years old. And then I got, once I seen. Once I, I just felt inside that, all right, this isn't going to end well. I basically gave my sister, my older sister, some money. We moved back into my mom's house, so I basically bought my other siblings out of my mother's house

and gave them money to get a fresh start in Philly, outside of Philly. So I was there, you know, by myself. But it was, it was, We just wanted to get the kids out of there. Did you have a good relationship with your siblings? Yeah. What about now still?

Yeah, I do. So one of my sisters, we actually both started using at that time. With she, out of my siblings, she was my closest sibling. But she just passed a couple months ago. She had a fentany overdose. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. So she, out of my siblings,

She was, she was my closest sibling. That was, that was, you know, that was like my, that was like my child before I had children, you know. And you had gotten clean weight years before she, she passed. I got clean in 2016. Was it hard for you to continue to, you know, work on being clean and seeing her use? Yeah, so, so I wouldn't see her.

I told my family, I was like, I don't want to hear nothing until she's ready to get clean. And I felt guilty because, you know, at the beginning, when she was getting high, I would, you know, everybody that was in the city, like I said, I knew 90% of the people that was involved in drugs at all. And I would tell them, look, if I catch any you serving my sister or drugs coming to my sister,

I don't care if it's third party, whatever. Coming to my sister, you know, there's going to be consequences to pay. So a lot of times they would be like, yo, I just went over here and I seen your sister. I left the back door open, you know, and she'd be in the house with her friends getting high. I'd show up. You know, that's what type of situation it was. People would call me and be like, yo, your sister's over here. Everybody knew in the city was like, don't, you know, that's his sister.

do not sell her anything do not you know and I'm sure people did because she was still able to get it yeah well so one time that for instance that time when when you know my buddy he called me and was like yo I just went in the house and your sister's upstairs I left the back door open he said you got to go now though because they're going to realize the back door is open sooner or later so I shot over there went inside my sister's um you know upstairs

At this time, it's my sister and two of her girlfriends there in the room getting high. I end up busing in the room, snatch my sister up, take her purse. And I told her, I was like, yo, I'm putting you in rehab. And I dumped their purse out because my thing was, I was like, I'm going to see, you know, I'm dope.

There's stamps on the bag. So I said, I'm going to find out who's dope she got. And, you know, there's going to be some consequences to pay. To me, I felt like that was, you know, the way I, my frustration to hurt that I was feeling, that's what I was going to do. So I dumped their purse out. It was my stamps. It was my stamps that she had. It was my dope that she had.

Why do you guys stamp your bags? It's, it's, so you know, you know, it's like putting a name on your product is Nike, Reebok, Athetus. That's what it is. But it's also dangerous in a way, like from illegal. point of view because then they can trace every sale you made it essentially yeah so you switch stamps up also you know what I mean um but it's you know if you have a good name you know people they they want to know what dope that is so how to make you feel to see that you were indirectly providing for your sister messed me up I was crying that's when I realized that I was doing that to other people's family and I didn't

care because it was other people's family I didn't like it being done in my family you know that's that things had started to change at that point. And then I would give my sister drugs, you know, after that. I was like, I don't, she's a female. I don't want her, I don't want somebody to be trying to take advantage of her. You know, I sort of felt like if I give her the drugs, then she doesn't have to go out there and hustle for them or scheme or whatever. You know what I mean?

Because my sister, she would, she was slick. And she used to, she would tell people, people knew she was my sister. So they would be like, oh, my brother said, you know, give me this or give me that. And a lot of times they'd be like, all right, you know, and they come to me and be like, yo, your sister said that you wanted me to give her this or that, you know, and I'd be like, first of all, I never, you know, when have you ever, when have I ever sent my sister to you to get anything from you or give you anything? Never, you know, but she used to do that a lot too.

Wow. So when do you go to jail for the drug business? What years are? I went to jail. I got indicted into, so I went to jail like 2006, 2007, I want to say. How old are you? 26. And you got how much time for this?

Five to ten. Five to ten. Did you have to do the whole ten? No, no, no. I did. So in Pennsylvania, they give like five to ten, five. five, you're going to come home unless you, you know, keep on messing up, you know, mess up parole or something. How did you navigate differently because this is your second time going into a real jail setting?

Yeah. What are some things like you learn that you did differently? This time I had, I had a lot of money, too. So I had been prior to getting locked up the week before I was visiting my cousin in the same county prison that I ended up in. So they knew me there. They, they was like, all right, this is. is the guy we see that comes in a nice cars and he has a whole bunch of jewelry on when he comes and you know every time he comes he's leaving $500 on his little cousin's books and you know so

within 24 hours of being there I had guards already like yo anything you need I got you you know they knew I had money um so they were you know it was it I picked up I was in jail for selling drugs and I'm in jail selling drugs you know within two weeks things sort of picked right back up. Does it make a big difference to have money in prison? Absolutely.

What are some of the things you could get that other inmates can't if you go to jail with money? Everything. Everything. I would eat. I'd have Chinese food. I've never been like

one to drink alcohol, but if I wanted alcohol, like I can't have anything I wanted. Were you on those guys that stopped going to Chow Hall because you could get commissary food, whatever made? Were you paying people

to cook you? meals. Yeah. I'd pay people to cook me meals. I pay people to cook my, to clean my cell, you know, anything. You were supporting the ecosystem. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. How much were you paying like a week to survive in there, comfortable? I don't remember, to be honest with you. It wasn't much, though. It wasn't much. But you could get a lot for a little. Yeah, absolutely. So I would, I would pay the guards to, to bring me a package. I'd pay them like 250. And it was, you know, they had a certain size.

Depending upon the guard, they had a certain size that they would like that package to be. And I would have, it'd be packaged up. They wouldn't open it. They would just come bring it to me and myself. And that's the drugs. Yeah, whatever I want it in there. How do you know if a cop is willing to do that?

They came to me and asked me. They come to you? Yeah. And they say, hey, if you give me money? He said, you know, numerous guards, probably like three or four guards. they knew what I was doing already. You know what I mean? They knew.

They was like, so my cousin had just went to the county for selling drugs. He was, you know, like 16 at the time and they knew, all right, he's coming to visit him. When he pulls up, he's pulling up in a nice fancy car. He's got this jewelry on. I've never seen this type of jewelry. And when he leaves, every time he's leaving $500 on his cousin's books. So they knew, you know what I mean? They knew they wasn't stupid.

And then other inmates in the gym. jail, you know, they, I'm sure the other inmates was like, oh, that's such and such, you know, I used to hang out with him and probably lying, you know what I mean? That's just the way jail works. But they literally, when I tell you, I wasn't there, you know, not even 48 hours and I already had guards come up to me. It was like, yo, anything you need, just let me know. What about female cops? Did you have any relationships or anything with them? So there was a specific female cop that, you know, we sort of, you know, we, we, we, we sort of had, you know, a little thing. But to me, I was, I was, I was, I wasn't like that, I wasn't, that wasn't, that wasn't one of my main things.

To me, I was like, that's a very sticky situation, you know, they're going to see my girl come to the prison. There's no way you're going to tell me a female. male guard isn't going to get jealous, just like a normal girl gets jealous. You know, so at the time I was like, you know, that wasn't, that wasn't something that was huge about my priority list. So are the majority of these cops just dirty and looking to make money? Not the majority. You know, I won't say that. But there's definitely, there was a lot of them that, that, you know, there was one guy, for instance, you know, he would come and be like, oh,

showing he was hooking up his car at the time he had you know a car that he wanted to hook up and I pretty much paid for his whole car to get hooked up but it was just as beneficial for me you know I was I was um you know setting home thousand dollars a week on a normal basis a thousand a week you were making in prison yeah it's and and that's not even you know that's like that's just what I was sending home not to mention what I had on my books and then had in my cell you know so it was yeah so how much do you think you would make in a month uh I don't know maybe in a month I don't know maybe like five or six thousand dollars which is some crazy money for an inmate to yeah absolutely like I I had everything I needed in jail rich penitentiary rich you know

were you ever investigated by like the inside what happens I remember one time specific so the jail was old. It was like an old castle jail. So what I used to do, I used to hide everything in the walls. The walls you could literally pick at, you know, if you got a piece of metal, you could dig to the, to the wall next door. So what I used to do, I used to hide everything in the wall and then like plaster over it. So it looked like, but it wasn't real plaster. It would just be the dust that I got over there mixed with toilet paper. And it would be a patch in the wall where I remember they would, they knew what was going, you know, people in jail talk and they also know, all right,

we're seeing them taking stuff over here. We see Frank never does this, never does that. You know, he might never go to commissary, but he has more commissary than anybody in his cell, you know. So I remember one time the cops were in there tearing it up and they were like, just tell us where it's at, make it easy. And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And the dude, he was a bigger guy,

and he leaned on the wall and it was like right next to where I had patched the wall and I was like fuck I hope he doesn't you know if he hits that this isn't like going to r h you getting restriction this is getting street case you know so you had a whole criminal enterprise going on in this prison sort of yeah sort of but there was people that did it before me people that it's part and it's always going to be like that absolutely it's never going to change like that there's always going to be you put people in that environment that are hustlers yep because you're a hustler yeah it's going to happen like that absolutely now eventually did you change your mindset though because you were telling me earlier that you

you started to learn how to cut hair and become a barber. Yeah. So when I went back to state prison, but even that, even throughout that, when I was in the, you know, I got my license in state prison. All the time I spent the state prison besides when I went back for to do like my last two and a half years, all that I was involved in drugs, gambling, you know, running poker tables, running, sports tickets. I was involved in everything. Besides when I went back and did my last two and a half years

that I, you know, I had met my wife. We were married. I had got locked up for a case that had happened, you know, like three years prior that my daughter's mom, she was jealous because I left her and said, look, if you don't come home by Friday, I'm calling the cops. And that's what she did.

So I ended up getting locked up. And that time that I went back, the last two and a half years I did, I was, I was, I had changed my life in the streets already. You know, it wasn't like me getting locked up and I'm selling drugs or me getting locked up and I got addiction. I had already changed, I had already flipped that switch in my head and said, all right, I'm going to be a family man, this is what I want to do, meeting my wife,

she provided me with a peace of mind for once in my life. I never had that until I met my wife. And then I realized how valuable that was. And, you know, I went to jail. And like I said, it was for something that happened three years prior. So I was like, I just want to come home to my family. I'm not going to do anything that I shouldn't do.

I'm not involved in anything. And I spent that time, you know, wisely looking up, you know, how to run a successful business, all that type of stuff. That's what I was into. That could have really derailed all your progress you were making on the streets, too. If you had let that get you back into the life. Yeah. I had, you know, there was security captains and people in the security that prior to that I had already done, you know, 15 years in the state system. They knew me. I had bounced around from jail to jail to jail. And they knew me. And I remember one of the lieutenants, he called me up to his office. He was a security lieutenant. And he told me, he's like, damn, I'm surprised I haven't heard your name. You know, I had been in the jail for probably a year already. He's like, to be honest with you, I'm surprised that. I haven't heard your name. He said, because you know, we hear everything that goes on.

He said, and I'm surprised I haven't heard your name. He said, either one of two things. Either you're being very selective at what you do, or you're not doing anything. And I said, well, it's the latter. I said, you know, I said, I'm sure, if you're calling me up here, I'm sure you see that I, my wife comes to visit me every week, that I'm, you know, she's bringing my choice. So I said, I'm sure, and I'm sure you listen to my phone calls. and you know you can

I guarantee you they're not like they were before you know where you're trying to pick out what I'm saying it's none of that I said you know if this wouldn't have happened I wouldn't have I wouldn't be here you know it was I had I had made that decision in my head that no matter what I'm not I'm not jeopardizing

to be home to my family and my wife ASAT. And I think that once we see a lot of guys, once they commit to that, they usually stick to that. Yeah. But they have to go through so much to flick that switch. Yep. How do you think we get individuals to have that mindset before they even get into that

position where they're forced to have that mindset? Yeah, that's a good question. So, you know, they say that the smart people or, you know, the wise people learn from the mistakes of others. I think it's either that, but some of us have to make our own mistakes. some of us because I know for myself you know you could tell me that stove is hot I'm still going to touch it I'm going to be like I'm faster

my hands are tougher you know they're weak they didn't know how to do it that's what I'm going to think I'm going to think I'm doing I'm going to be able to do it differently and not realizing no that's just what comes with it I think we also have to go through a certain crisis in life that we have to you know like people say you got to hit that rock bottom we have to go through

a crisis in life and realize like this isn't what I want you know I'm I'm subconsciously asking for this, even though this isn't what I want, you know, where we have to go through that, you know, we don't know what the, the horrible shit is until we go through it. Yeah, I'm so fucking stubborn. I could have saved myself so much. Heartbreak, financial stress, freedom from going to prison and everything like that.

If I just listen to the people around me. But I'm one of those people like yourself that you have to go through it and you have to figure it out on your own. Because I don't want to know about like the, like, I don't want to think about like the what ifs if I didn't try it my way because maybe it could have worked. You don't know, you know. So, but I guess sharing these stories of individuals is what hopefully makes a change too.

Yeah. And I also think too is that, you know, all men are definitely not created equally. You know, you put us in a room and you're going to tell us who's who very quickly. I think that those of us that want more out of life that aren't just all right with going with the flow, we have that desire for more. And I think doing illegal stuff is kind of easy. You know, that shit is anybody can go rob a bank.

Anybody can sell drugs. It don't take too much to do that. So I think that's like the path of least resistance that we find at first. And then when we realize, all right, this ain't it, we start to realize, all right, let me put this in this energy. Let me dedicate it to a different way. Let me be productive with it. Let me be, first of all, legal with it.

We're going to start to separate ourselves from others the same way, you know, we might have in jail. We're going to start to do, you know, I think it's just where we decide to focus that. whether it's through something positive or whether it's through something negative. Absolutely. So what's life like for you now? What do you do? What are your, what's the five-year plan? What's your message to others? So life is dope for me right now. I just celebrate, I just celebrated seven years clean. Congratulations. Thank you. A week before, you know, my birthday in September. I have a dope family. I got an awesome wife. Children me and my wife, we have seven. children. I

get to, I own my own barbershop. That's, you know, one of the businesses that I have. I'll shout it out, man. Where is your barbershop? My barbershop is located in Milton PA against the grain barbershop. I have a YouTube channel called

Morals over Money. I interview people that deal with addiction and people that have sort of gone through their crisis in life, you know, that I'm about to hit 200,000 subscribers probably today or tomorrow, which is something dope for me, you know.

Yeah, that's great. I get to tomorrow I'm going to a high school and a middle school in New Jersey to speak to kids to let them know, you know, to share my story and let them know about the dangers of drugs and alcohol and the importance of making the right decisions. Then I'm going to, you know, federal penitentiary in Allenwood, you know, later on in the week.

That's the stuff. that I enjoy doing the most. For me, like, the most gratifying thing is going to the school and speak to the kids. I feel like if I reach them there, hopefully I don't have to talk to them in prison or talk to them in rehab or talk to them in Kensington. I do a lot of work with, you know, with the addicts

and homeless in Kensington, which is, you know, the largest open-air heroin, well, largest open-air drug market. It's crazy. the level of addiction that you see there you walk down the block you smell rotting flesh um you see people with these like horribly scary ulcers that are you know the drugs are literally eating their skin um i just got to meet with the two mayoral candidates for philadelphia coming up here next month to hear what is their plans what are the what do you guys plan to do you know for the community

that is kensington and and the lawlessness that's allowed and encouraged to go down there people will you know shoot up right in front of the cops literally shoot up in the neck right in front of the police police don't say nothing but they wouldn't allow that to happen on their block you know kids have to step over bodies uh to take the bus or take the train to school imagine that you know I wouldn't want my kids being subjected to that. So I got to meet with, you know, the two candidates to hear what their plans are if they become elected. Now, Philly has a huge reputation for corrupt officials. Yep.

I was in prison at the federal detention center in Philly during transit with, I think it was, what was it, the attorney general or someone that was arrested? It was a black guy, bald head. I know who you're talking about. Yeah, this was 2017. He had just surrendered. He got like a five-year bid. I forgot his name.

Yeah, I know who he. So I had just seen him in some type of news. I think he was speaking. I think his name was Eric or something. I don't know. I forgot. But I know he, it was a big case and he had just got arrested and indicted and sentenced right then. But I know Philly's like historic for that.

Absolutely. You know, there was just a cop that got arrested. for sexually abusing, you know, 44 people in Kensington, you know, the women that are down there dealing with addiction and mental health and homeless. Philly is, is, I lived in New York, I lived in D.C. Philly is a different place. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. So what's like the five-year plan for you? What do you see down the road? So I'm hoping, I'm in the process right now of renovating a building that I bought. I'm going to turn one of the floors into like a sober home,

recovery home that's here. I'm hoping within the next year, everything will be done there. To be honest with you, in the next five years, I'm hoping to get out of Pennsylvania. I would like to, I just came from Florida. I just got back Friday from Florida First time there was beautiful

I want to move somewhere where I don't have to deal with fall on winter That effect I get seasonal depression So I want somewhere where it's nicer For me, goal-wise I feel like To be honest with you

A lot of the goals that I had I checked off my box I and none of them were like I feel like the majority of my goals had to do with family when I was young I didn't want to be an athlete

or like a movie star I wanted to be a good father and I feel like as long as I'm a good father everything else will fall into place you know I'll treat my wife accordingly because I want my children to see

that I'll be a good community member um you know I'll I'll be a productive adult um all that stuff will fall into place like if I just sort of concentrate on being a good father I think everything else falls under that umbrella so for me is there's always um you know like different little goals that I set for myself um that has to do with you know being successful and stuff like that but since I came home in 2016, 2015, December 23rd, I came home. We were homeless. Me and my wife and my children, we were sleeping on my mother-in-law's floor on an air mattress. I went from there to, you know, buying my first house, then owning different properties to having a few different businesses where I feel like I've already achieved so much, but I've spent so much time grinding and working

where literally two weeks ago I started taking evaluation of my life and I was like all right I need to now the goals that I'm sitting have to do more with my family we're financially comfortable I need to learn to appreciate my family and my wife

and do stuff like that more because the past couple years I've just been grinding so much because I felt like everybody else had a 20 year head start on me I got to get to it. And, you know, I, it's nice and I enjoy that, but I want to be at every match that my son has for wrestling for football.

You know, the different things that my children have going on. That's what I want to do. That's what's important to me. What do you think your messages to the people that are listening, watching, tuning in to this? What do you want them to take away from your story? Number one, it ain't never too late to, you know, to get on the right path. You know, we all go through stuff in life.

We all have times where we feel, damn, I don't know how I'm going to get through this. I don't know if I am going to get through this. We all have those times and experience in life. And once again, we can use, you know, that stuff that happens to us, we can either use it to cry over or we can use it as motivation, as fuel. to light that fire up under us and do something positive. You know, I always try to encourage people to, you know, to be like three things, be kind, be loving, and be patient.

You know, we never know what people are dealing with. We might know the little stuff that we're dealing with, so just imagine what somebody else has going on, you know, because I know multiple times in my life that I thought shit was the worst, the absolute worst, and then I take evaluation of it. I'm like, damn, somebody would literally, and probably is dying to be in that position. You know, every time it rains, I always think of it.

I hate the rain, so I'll be like running from my house to my car, and then I'm running from my car into my business, and then I'm like, and I'm complaining about that. I'm running from a dry, warm, nice home to a dry, warm, nice car to a dry, warm, nice business. And that's what I'm complaining about. I have a car, I have a home, I have a business, my family's healthy, we have food in the fridge, we're all right, you know, those are good problems to have if I'm complaining about, you know,

getting a little bit of rain on me. And I always think of that, you know, because when I'm in Kensington doing that work, I see people that are literally huddled up in the corner with a garbage bag over their head and all you see is their feet sticking out trying to stay dry. You know, I see that. And I've been in those predicaments in my life before, where we had to boil the hot water to take a shower, where we had to open up the oven to get heat in the house,

where we had to light candles because there wasn't no lights. I've been in those positions, so I just try to remain extremely humble and grateful for everything that I have, because at any given time, you know, that next crisis is right around a corner and I have to be prepared for it because it's not if it happens, it's when it's going to happen. And those low times, you know, they make you grateful for the good times because then you don't get to experience it in the way you do now. It means differently.

Of course. Of course. We don't, you know, we don't know how bad something is or how good something is until we have the bad of it. You know what I mean? Like we don't, for me, I wouldn't appreciate my wife the way I do and love her the way I do unless I had to deal with my daughter's mom. You know what I mean?

Or unless you're in prison because you value relationships more. Like me, I look at relationships way more differently than I did before because I was in jail when you don't have access to that. Exactly. So now when you're with someone,

like it's not about like, to me, I'm content, with just being with someone. We could be doing absolutely nothing. If we're just hanging out and with each other, I'm okay with that. Yeah, we like doing other stuff, but just like being with that person

because I know what it feels like to be alone and not have that. So that's good enough for me. Exactly. We don't know what that other side is, you know, until we've experienced it. And I think those of us that have experienced it, we're fortunate, you know,

because first of all, we've experienced it. We've came out of it. We're alive. You know, we can look at it as a learning point and as a learning experience. And we can learn to appreciate things because it's very easy to not appreciate. You know, it's very easy to not be appreciative and take things for granted. And then, you know, they get snatched away and we're like, damn, I wish I would have handled that. I wish I would appreciate it that a little bit more.

We've all gone through that. Absolutely. Well, Frank, thank you so much for coming out here. Thank you for driving out here. You have a lovely family. We got to meet your wife and a couple of your kids and looking forward to your continued success and we'll plug all your information,

your YouTube channel, your barbershop in the description. And if you ever need anything, reach out to us and we're excited to see you grow. Thank you, brother. I truly thank you for this experience. And, you know, my brother-in-law, Nate, thank you for putting that plug in. Like I said, he's the one that turned me on to your podcast, and I listen to it. And I like your point of view.

I like, you know, your humility. It comes off and how genuine you are and sincere. It comes off very well. Thank you, man. Well, shout out to Nate. We appreciate that. I read a lot of my comments, and I saw one earlier. It was like a guy said, hey, my college roommate just put me on to this.

and it feels good that people are sharing it because that's how it grew. And I've been helping someone recently with their podcast and I look at their downloads and they just started. They have one or two downloads and I'm like, I was just there in January. And to see it go to where you get 10,000, 15,000 downloads in just a couple days in this short amount of time. Like people are resonating and they're connecting and I think it's because it's so different. Yeah. Like this is to me, this is like therapy. with people that actually live through your experience.

Like I don't have any licenses. I didn't go to college or anything. But me and you could connect because we're comfortable and we're having a conversation. And we're saying how we feel and we're talking deep thoughts and stuff. And that inspires all these individuals. So for me, that's what I like about it

because I love like that underdog story. I love the people that society counts out to see them win. That's what this channel is all about. Definitely. But Frank, have a safe trip back. Great.

Best of luck with your speaking events the next couple days. Thank you. Yeah, we'll be in touch. Thank you, brother. I appreciate you.