Locked In with Ian Bick - Ex Correctional Officer Exposes Corruption Inside Dallas County Jail | Emanuel Lewis

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

Emanuel Lewis shares his experience as a correctional officer and exposes corruption inside Dallas County Jail. He discusses the challenges of working in the prison system, the misconduct he witnessed, and the impact of jail corruption on inmates and staff. Emanuel also talks about the realities of life behind bars, the justice system, and the struggles inside county jails. #CorrectionalOfficer #JailCorruption #DallasCountyJail #PrisonSystem #InsideCorrections #TrueCrime #LifeBehindBars #JusticeSystem Connect with Emanuel Lewis: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emanuel-lewis-28968ba6/ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Introduction and Background of Officer Lewis 00:03:28 Real Estate Investment Journey 00:06:38 Running for Office and Campaign Experience 00:10:19 Challenges of Sherf Academy Training 00:13:23 Entering the Prison Environment 00:16:40 Testifying in Federal Court During COVID 00:20:00 Wages and Work Conditions in Federal Jobs 00:23:04 Experiencing Violence in a Psych Tank 00:26:32 Challenges and Mental Effects of Working in Texas Facilities 00:29:32 Federal Protected Witness Experience 00:32:58 Early Lawsuit Against Hockey Hall of Famer 00:36:11 Challenges with Disability Accommodation and Termination Policies 00:39:13 Navigating Employment Termination: Legal Challenges and Disability Rights 00:42:14 Legal Settlement Possibilities 00:45:40 Securing Guests and Networking for Stories 00:48:37 Federal Judges and Accountability in Detention Centers 00:51:31 Remembering Fallen Officers and Detained Individuals in Dallas County Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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ValleyVet, your go-to source for 40 years, making animal care easy and affordable. Visit ValleyVet.com for your animals' health and your peace of mind. That's ValleyVet.com. Officer Lewis, welcome to Lockton. We're sitting here in Austin, Texas, and Airbnb, and you just drove from Dallas, like a three or four hour drive to get here. Yes, thank you for having me here. and it's a great opportunity, and that's why I drove all the way down here and be on your podcast.

I appreciate it, man. I saw your request come in, and I was booking all the Texas guests because we have like this spreadsheet. And I was like, wow, this is an interesting story. Yeah, I saw some of the work that you've done. And I was hoping that I can be on your show and share my testimony and also speak for some of the officers and the detained that are no longer here. Definitely. And you no longer work for the Department of Corrections at all or any jail or a facility. No, I currently have a big lawsuit against them. It's in the news. It's in the media.

And that's what we're going to be getting into later in this episode today. So did you grow up in Texas? I grew up in Boston and I moved here about 20 years ago. Oh, you're a Boston guy. My aunt lives in Cambridge. So you know how we are, direct blunt to the point. Yeah, I'm in Connecticut. So I go to Boston pretty often to film episodes in Revere and Lowell. I don't know if I said that right, but yeah. So it's like a couple hours. Is that how they say?

Revere? That's how they say it? Oh, shit. I'm bad at everything. I always get ripped because I say except, what is it, exception with an X, but it's E.S or E.C. That's wicked wrong. Yeah, exception. I don't know how.

I say everything wrong. Well, wicked is a word that we use up there for everything. Wicked? Wicked. Yeah, that means like very extremely. Because of like Salem. and like the witches and stuff? Yeah, that's where I grew up in. Okay, gotcha.

The witch city. Who did you grow up with, mom, dad, siblings? My mom mostly raised me and she was a single mom, worked a lot for General Electric, and she helped raise four of us, and I had a stepdad too also worked a lot. But she taught us a lot of independence and to be appreciative. For instance, for Christmas, we didn't have the best gifts, but a week or two after, we had amazing gifts. She got them at 30, you know, 40% off. Were your siblings and you close? Yeah. And we still are to this day.

What was the difference in age? I have an older sister. She's about five years older than me. And then another sister, three years older than me. And then a younger brother that's about five years. What did they all get into for work? All different things. One of my sister works as a flight attendant. And she just overcame cancer. and she was in the military and everything. Now she's back flying. My other sister, she's into substance abuse. She overcome substance abuse.

Now she's a substance abuse counselor and advocate. And my brother, he does like, you know, Jack of All Trades, just does a little bit of everything. Oh, wow. So you're the only one that got into the law enforcement? Yeah. And it was just strictly by mistake. I was overworking at elections. And a deputy came over and said, we were short.

in the jail and we had conversations and I think he kind of knew how I was and how I take stands and he sent me over there. And this was after you already moved out here. Yes. Okay. Why did you move? Get away from the cold weather there and more of a hot weather person. And at the time, the price of homes, I bought my home back then for 105. Okay. 105,000. Yes. Wow. It's probably worth like four or five times that now. Yes. Wow. What year was that when you moved out here? 2005. 2005, okay.

And did your family move with you? Not at the time, but eventually I was able to bring my sister over who was struggling for substance abuse. I let her live with me for a while. And then she was able to get back on track. And then my sister, my mom came over for a little bit as well and stayed for a few years. Now, when you say working elections, you were like working the polls. Yeah, where people come in and vote, you check them in and, you know, sign them in to go.

and vote and everything, just working as election clerk. And that was volunteer work back then? Back then it was about $8 an hour. Now they pay a little bit more, $18 bucks an hour. But yeah, and I just saw the deputy and he saw me. And some of the people were treating them, the deputies very poorly, and I've always treated them with respect. Did you have a regular full-time job at that point, too?

At that time, I've done all kinds of things. Like my home, I would rent it out. And I worked at like GE financial capital and just have various different, you know, experiences. And you were still at GE when you got this job? Yeah, because it's just a part-time thing. One of the elections come around, you know, you can come and work on election day. Most of the times it's like Saturday. So you come and be able to work on elections. So you left GE to work at this jail? Yeah, I left with the opportunity to go over there. It's just, you know, God just told me to, you know, go over there with the deputy also and just went over there and saw it

was all about and just totally fell into it. No background, no experience. That's how short. They are, and they're still short. About 200 officers that are short. That must have been a huge pay cut. I was around the same. I wasn't making that much more money at GE. Really? Yeah, yeah.

It wasn't a big high job. Just doing like documentation specialists, so it wasn't a big job. And then at the jail, you're doing tons of overtime. So you're doing like multiple 16 hours, 16 hour days. Did you grow up very religious? It wasn't forced down us, being from the, East Coast. It wasn't a church on every corner like there is here. But my mom gave me the name Emmanuel. God is with us. So it's a big responsibility. Got to answer the call. Yeah. So what was it

about that conversation with the deputy that, you know, stuck to you that made you want to go into this line of work? There's just a shortage. And then I just knew I'd be a great advocate and I could help mentor and help inspire because you're reaching out to people at the worst moments, you know, in their lives. And so once you guys had that conversation, how long to take to start? What did that process look like? It took about four months to get in. Like they, they threw you everything to not make it advantageous for you to go in there. But I just stayed persistent on there and I eventually got in there. And then when I was at orientation, I found out people that had friends and family, they got in there within two weeks or three weeks. So why did it take you longer? Because they

probably knew I was going to be someone that spoke up, you know, by then I ran for office. You know, I've already been in the news media. So they probably didn't want me poking around. Running for like city council? Yeah, I ran for city council. And I ran for Dallas County Clerk. And I've helped on a million campaigns. Did you get into those roles or not?

No, it takes a little bit in Texas. You got to just keep staying at it, especially if you're not from here. You know, you just got to keep plugging at it. So eventually I might run again. And next time I think put it in God's hand and maybe it'll want me to, you know, win at that time. How old? But it was great to run those times because a lot of times they would run. run unopposed. So the great thing about running is, you know, you run and then not run

on a pose, but then you get to bring up issues that normally wouldn't be covered. How old were you when you got that job? It was, say I was like 45 or so, around 45. So this is like kind of like a midlife crisis type of change of scenery? I just saw it as an opportunity. I just did the research. I'm not sure if it was midlife crisis. I've always wanted to do something to help serve the incarcerated. So America is only 5% of the world's population, yet we hold 25% of the world's prisoners. And that system is just not sustainable. We can't keep on locking up people for mental health and addiction because we used to have these mental health facilities,

but those are all sold for real estate development. So I just saw it as a calling. Had you ever have family affected by the criminal justice system at all? There are relatives and just, you know, friends, you know, you just know what people just getting caught up. And you learn of the stories that, you know, the ones that were able to afford a lawyer. And that's the only, you know, difference. What did your friends think when you took on this role? They didn't really think much.

They just knew I was kind of someone that took on these challenges. Like, that's just how I'm built. Like, I want someone that runs towards the fire. Most people take this type of job a lot younger, you know, in their 20s, fresh out of college, not at 45. Did the sheriff or whoever was running the facility take interest in that, having someone that was maybe older or wiser? Well, it was very interested in because some people thought this was political because previously a couple terms, or I supported the opponent. And I reached out to her and I'm like, I'm available. You know, I'm a resource. I can help on any which way, you know, no flatline, you know, no response.

Not even to say like, no, I'm not interested. Yeah. Now the sheriff in Texas has voted in. Yes. In this town that you're in? Yes. And then he or she runs the county jail? Yes.

Okay. Because every state's different. Like in Connecticut, we don't have that. There's no elections for a sheriff. We don't even have sheriffs. Right. And then a lot of it for the budget and it's the commissioners. there's five county commissioners over her that decide a lot as well. But with the jail over there,

it's just complete chaos. There's no accountability. No one answers to anything. And the county will just lawyer up and spend tens of millions of dollars on litigation costs instead of fixing these problems. And even the ACLU stated this as well. What kind of training did they give you for the role once you got hired? Nothing. I was just two days in a room and not much. And they keep it that way. because they don't want really you to know the law and the rules and hoping that you'll make mistakes and you'll be compromised. And after a while, you're there for a year, you're supposed to go to a Shrf Academy. And then they delayed mine and finally let me go in there.

And then that was three weeks of extensive training mentally and physical and educationally. And that is something that you should have at the beginning. And they also don't want you to have that at the beginning because you'll, you're very valuable once you have that Shrf Academy training and you can just go on to any small jail. And our jail has 7,000 incarcerated. That's a big county jail. Yes. What kind of offenses are normally housed there? We have everything. We have a minimum, medium, maximum in the behavioral observation, which should be in the mental health facility. We have over 400 incarcerated that are waiting to go to a state hospital. Now these are people that are sentenced or awaiting sentencing awaiting their case.

Yeah, they're innocent and they're awaiting. We had one gentleman who was mentally incapacitated and it took them five years just to even have a trial. Wow. And no one serves their time there. I know in some county jails, if they have a shorter sentence, they'll do like one or two years there after getting sentenced. They're not supposed to, but a lot of time there are the overstays where they just lose people in the system. because of our tech share system. That's what they say. And recently, they've had to settle two suits where people were overstayed and they had to pay them over $160,000. Wow. So you go into

this role, no physical training, barely any mental training. What's that first day like for you? What it was is when I first got there, didn't know who my training lady or man was. And I did see them. Later, I learned that that was my person, but they the next day went on vacation for nine days. So you're there, just blind. Yes. Wow. And what about the higher up? No warden, no associate or the sheriff's, anyone helping you, kind of guiding you, showing you the way? Not much. You start off the day in a detail where you're there with the whole shift. There's maybe 50 to 60 workers, and you just get yelled at and screamed at. And just, you know, you're just told how bad you are.

That's how you start your day. Were you the only new one or were there other people that were new on the job? Yeah, there were a bunch of new ones like myself. But some of them had friends and family, you know, that could kind of guide them. So 7,000 inmates, how many officers would you say there was? All together, it's about 1,000 and we're about 200 short. And in our in our tanks are only supposed to have one officer to 48 inmates and you have one officer 64.

So you're thrown in there in the tank with the inmates. There's a good national geographic documentary on our jail. And how is a facility laid out? Is it pods? Is it open dorms? What's that look like? The one I was in was an open dorm. Okay.

And there would have been different units like some maybe like higher security inmates. would be locked down or they threw everyone in open doors in the open dorms yeah was one of those you know medium maximum you know behavioral observation people talking to themselves so that first day walking in what's going through your mind what are you thinking seeing all of this because this is probably something you've never really experienced before yeah just they thought I was meant to to be there and then also the four months that it took for them to not let me in there just thought I thought I was meant to be there so do you think they were doing that on purpose absolutely So why even hire you then?

Well, because I'm just going to keep on being persistent and I'll be pushing it and pushing it, you know. Now, had you studied like jails, TV shows about prisons, like that whole prison culture, jail culture before, you know, going on to your first day? I just had a general knowledge of it, but I didn't specifically, you know, study. How different was it compared to what you knew about it before? Oh, it was extremely different. I just knew it wasn't an environment that he wasn't going to be good for myself or the people that are there. And then from there, COVID broke out. And we're in there.

There were COVID, no mask, no sanitizer, no social distancing. So the people there in charge of the county are telling us how to live our lives on the outside. But on the jurisdiction that they were in, you know, they had nothing for us. And I saw some activity that they were finally doing something. And then I learned that there was a lawsuit. So it was a lawsuit that the inmates were saying, you know, this is what's going on. And the management saying, no, their inmates don't believe what they're saying. And then there was nothing from staff from the workers.

And there was a thousand workers. No one would speak up. So I was thinking, God wanted me to speak up. With the RAM Declaration of deals, we're pledging our allegiance to the American people with great deals on the RAM 1500. Back with the legendary HEMI, VN. and the RAM heavy duty. With the available Cummins Turbo Diesel delivering 1,075 pound feet of torque,

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Conditions apply. Say what was really going on. Why do you think no one wanted to speak up? A lot of it are afraid of the retaliation and a lot of them don't, you know, maybe they have some of them have their compromise. Maybe they have some things in their background that, you know, will come up or people could just make accusations. It doesn't have to be true. What type of retaliation would you see on the officers? Well, being fired, not getting, like, this is what happened to me for retaliation. You know, getting threatened all the time with my job, not getting the shifts that I was promised.

I was still stuck on the weekend shifts, which is the hardest. And then they were trying to keep me in a tank for up to 16 hours, which normally it's you go eight hours in the tank and then you get to go on the floor for eight hours. When I was on vacation, they were telling them the rest of the staff that I wasn't supposed to be on vacation and they would just try to, you know, mock me in detail. What's the tank for people that don't know? Tank is like a pod. It's like the open dorm where there's 64 inmates. When was the first time you actually spoke out and got retaliated against? It was when I testified. Well, well, first I, I was.

I went up the chain of command to say what was. And then, you know, they mocked me in detail. And they said, you know, if I keep going, I'll be, you know, fired. And I'm not going to get to go to the Shurf Academy, just all these, you know, threats that they would have or yell at my name over the, the, the, the, the, the, uh, the speakers. They and just, you know, say I was doing things wrong. Just, you know, little things that after a while when you're there and they're just demeaning you and talking down to you, you develop this. thick skin that it doesn't, you know, doesn't bother you. But then I was, I testified in federal court and we were one of the first courts open for Zoom and it's all on the news and everything.

I'm just saying what the inmates were saying is true. You know, no mask, no sanitizer, no social distance, and not any soap. They're wearing the same underwear, the same clothes. A lot of the immigrants were made to clean up after the pods that got under quarantined for COVID and a lot of abuses against the immigrants. How long into your state was it your first complaint and your first issue with what was going on there? Probably within five to six months. And it was like right when COVID was starting to break out around that time.

Were you seeing things before COVID that were going on? Or did COVID really kind of launch a lot of these issues? Yeah, I was always wanted to speak up whether it was, you know, well, that training officer, I called her out and I wrote her up and she eventually got fired. I told them what happened that she didn't tell me that that was my training officer and that she was going on vacation and just left me out there for nine months. Oh, so they actually did fire? Eventually, eventually, yeah.

Okay. And are you guys union or how does that work? They have a union, but what they do is it's a union that's more supportive of the management. So a lot of unions, they won't come into a place if there's already an established union. They call it, you know, stepping on people's toes. But it's not one that supports us. And we go through the media reports. There's no media. There's no associations.

There's no union saying, you know, where is the safety for the detained or for the workers? There's no one on the record. And at the time, they said that this is not the time for us to fight with management. That was their stance during COVID. Now, are there federal in its house there, too, or just state? It's mostly this. It's mostly the local ones that are may or may not go to state. Okay.

And the immigrants, those are all local immigrants that got caught for something in that? Yes. And then they're put on ice holds. And these ones are extended because they're only supposed to stay in there for a couple days, but they'll use them to do the cooking, the clean-in, anything that's need to be done, and they're overworked in there. And do you think that's done intentionally? Yes, the jail would not run unless there was the immigrant labor.

How many immigrants do you say make up that population? I wouldn't know offhand, but I can get that. Probably a good amount. Oh, yeah. And what kind of mistreatment besides being overworked are you seeing specifically with the immigrants? Yeah, a lot of it with the overworking, you know, not getting time to sleep, not getting time to eat, verbally, you know, abusing them. And do they get paid in a county jail? No, and they should be.

Oh, yeah. Texas doesn't pay inmates at all, right? Let's say you pay them 33 cents an hour. And then when they leave, maybe they get a check for, you know, $4,000 or $5,000. That's enough to get, you know, a car or apartment or something. I don't think they're going to get that much money. I mean, the feds we got like $30 a month. Yeah.

So that's a lot of months to get four or five thousand dollars. Right. But yeah, I did. I've interviewed multiple Texas people and there's no payment at all and they'll be working in like hot fields. I've interviewed some women. They go out into the fields and everything. It's rough in Texas.

Yeah. Well, for you guys getting 30 a month, you guys should have got more. Yeah. So like the Unicor jobs like that the federal contracts, you'll get like 60 to 100 bucks a month and there's different levels. But I think that most some people are making was like 120, 150 bucks. How many hours were they doing? Those are like full 40, 50 hours a week. I worked in the bakery for, what, 15 cents an hour or something like that? It was crazy. Yeah, these immigrants, they're probably doing about 14 to 16 hours a day. Yeah, you make your money from hustling in prison. Like if you're working in the kitchen, you're bringing out like your onions, peppers, all of that, selling that and stuff. Was there that type of economy over there? Were people doing things like that? Well, with their commissary, you know, they would do that. And they used to let some of the kitchen workers bring in,

food, you know, and everything, but they slowed down a lot of that. We had a big scandal where $700,000 worth of commissary was stolen. How? A worker was, you know, putting money that was on these cards and shifting it on accounts and unloading it and going out to the Oklahoma casino and all these things. And for the longest time, the detained would say to us, hey, you know, I think someone got access to my pen. They're all stealing my account. And we report this up to chain and they didn't do anything about it. It was finally the FBI that came in and did some things about it and made the news. Wait, so the money that it was an actual physical commissary is money in their commissary accounts that was getting taken. Yes. So why did it take so long to catch that?

Right. That should be checked on it right away when we report. Someone knew about this at a higher level. Wow. And they didn't do anything. And finally the FBI was able to do something. And that's what we're going to need. We need a lot of federal modern. We need the need the the U.S. Department of Justice to investigate the Dallas County Jail. It's happening over in Tarrant, which has a lot less infractions. But for some reason, they haven't had the investigation yet over at Dallas, and it's greatly needed. Would you say there's more good correctional officers and bad or more bad rather than good? I'd say there's more good correctional officers than bad.

And you will have some of the bad ones, but they weed themselves out. you know, they'll eventually get caught. What was the, would you say, were the most shocking things you witnessed over there? Just the whole system and the people being overworked. I think that was just too much. You know, every single day. And, you know, the guy doesn't have it in them

and they're forcing them out to go and work. And then if they don't work, as you know, they'll throw them in another tank that's worse. You know, so you got the trainee trustee tanks, right? And then if you're not showing up and doing what you're supposed to do, they'll throw you in a psych tank. Did you see a lot of physical abuse at all? There were fights and everything.

And for us, we had to hold our own for three, two to three minutes until help came to get us if we needed some help. The inmates attacking you. Well, it was a fight breakup. Like everything's, you know, mayhem, right? And we're in there with no, nothing. We don't have a spray. We don't have anything. Wow.

And even sometimes like our walkie-talkies don't work. Sometimes our phones wouldn't work. our computers wouldn't work. Wow, it was really outdated equipment. Yeah, our chairs were probably 20 years old. So there's no one from like the mayor's office or the state doing walkthroughs looking at these conditions or anything like that? They're supposed to. And that's one of the solutions.

Once these politicians have to walk through there, they'll get tired of that and they'll fix, you know, these problems. Did you ever get injured while on the job? Not too much, not much from our injuries. Just when I went for the second Sheriff Academy to go out to be a deputy, you know, You know, after that I had to go be hospitalized. It was like hard breathing and I fell and I developed a condition of a heart failure while I worked there. And then I started to get in discoloration. This was the first discoloration I got.

And then I got all this. And then when you're there, you don't have much time to go to the doctors and anything. So I, you know, first went to a couple of doctors and dermatologists. And they just said, you know, maybe it's Vidalaga. And then by the time I went to the fourth doctor who did the echo cardiogram, told me how I had heart failure. And this was all while on the job. Yeah. Did they say that the heart failure was a cause from the job?

Yeah. It was a direct correlation. Yes. So how do you prove something like that? Well, you prove it by medical records. And then you prove it by the detained that unfortunately have passed. And also workers, you know, 30, 40, 50 years old that are dying and that have died. So there are other workers with the same.

symptoms, conditions from working in that specific? Yeah, from heart failure and they've died. They've passed on. And is this going on in other facilities as well, too? Yes. So this is- Especially with the prisons where there's no AC, 70% up to 70% of Texas prisons when you have AC. So the heat is a big cause for this. Yeah. And you got a uniform that doesn't breathe and then you work in 16 hours. Our lunches are only 30 minutes. And as you know, to get through the different tanks. That's like eight minutes, right? So you got 22 minutes for lunch. We were in a food desert. So you just got fast food places around. So you're just taking in. You got the vending machines, you know, they're terrible as well. So if you never took this job, you don't think you

ever would have developed health issues. Not these kind. Not as young as, you know, I was at the time. And you had no history of health issues in your family at all? No, not these things. Never had, you the heart failure and, you know, I never had discoloration in my family. Now, getting deputized, that means you're, you know, working at like as a police officer. Is that what that is? Yeah, I went out after go. I went there, went to the deputy exam, but since I have a bachelor's degree, like they were supposed to allow me to do that sooner. But they kept me in there longer because I was, you know, good at the tanks and they have a shortage and they needed people for Friday.

So by the time I did go out for deputy, you know, I wasn't in the shape as I was. was when I first started or the first year that I started. That was about a year and a half that I went out for deputy and they have you do this strenuous physical fitness test. It was about 105 degrees. No medics around. Wow. Yeah. What are some of the mental effects and downsides to working in a facility like this in Texas? Well, you just never see the outside, right? You're always on the inside so you don't get, you know, the vitamin D. You see a lot of people that, you know, they're losing their housing. They're losing their cars.

You know, they're losing their jobs because in the system they're being held past their time. So just knowing that it doesn't have to be a system like that. It's just people go in there and they come out worse. A lot of the programs that we had to help the detained were all taken out. A lot of the church groups weren't let in there because church groups make good witnesses on what's really going on. Now, do you think this is all intentional?

Absolutely, absolutely. And why do you think that? Well, because a lot of it is the people that run it, the attorneys that make a lot of billables, like, they're just like, well, we don't have to fix any of these problems. We get more billables. Like, they're very aware of what's going on. And then they're expecting on the public to not care about this, not expecting for people like us to do podcasts and care about the people that are, you know, detained, like,

go, it's their fault and just, you know, throw them away and everything. But we can't have that mentality. And we're learning that today, you know, in today's political world, all kinds of people are being sent to these jails and prisons. Yeah, the podcasting space has really shone the light on, you know, these facilities, especially from a correctional officer standpoint, because years ago, correctional officers would never go on these shows or these shows didn't exist. And now, like, It's even hard to get, like, active federal ones. Like, what I've found is, like, the sheriffs and the county ones and the wardens, they'll talk to me because they're elected officials and they're in charge of their own facility. But, like, you can't get an active federal correctional officer because they'll get retaliated against.

I had a correctional captain who was on my show. I don't know if you listen to the episode, D.N. Kennedy. But she works in the Air Force, too. She got back after the show. She did the show. It went viral. And they, like, demoted her down. So she's like, F this, I'm out of here.

And she quit after like almost 20 years on the job or like 15 years on the job, something crazy. And they retaliated her. And she didn't even give any secrets or anything. She was just literally saying what actually goes on in the facility. So I've seen that like firsthand. And it's pretty crazy. See on her, she should have been fired, right? And then she should have sued.

Yeah, that's what I said. I was like, why don't you just wait to get fired or even just demoted? that was her right to do that, you know. And then that's what we need. The more of these people take it to the courts and go to the Department of Justice. That's how we're going to get changes. Yeah, absolutely. So how long were you with the department for?

About three years. Three years? When was the peak of, you know, the retaliation and, you know, them trying to push you out once they realized that you were really speaking up and you were going to take this to the end? Yeah, it was around the time. that I did the federal, I was subpoenaed as a federal protected witness to testify. So after that, they wanted to show an example to other people,

you know, that this will happen to you, you know, if you speak up as well. And they started getting rid of like a lot of the older workers that knew their rights. And they started hiring some of the 18-year-olds, which that's not the environment for 18-year-olds to be in. And why do you think that's not the environment for them? Well, you just haven't had life experience to be able to relate to people.

And management can exploit that. And the 18-year-old is less likely to speak up than someone like myself. Do you find that the younger officers care less about the inmates than the older officers like yourself? Well, a lot of it, we spend so much time with the detained. So we spend 99% with the detained. So if you don't get along with them, if you don't like them, your day is going to be very long. Like my days would get by because I had a trustee. I had someone helping me to run the pod.

So a lot of it is you see management for one person at the time. They just yell at you and just tell you how you're the worst thing in the world. And I had more problems from the management than I ever had from the detained. Do you think most correctional officers are compassionate towards inmates? Well, some of it is to kick the cat, right? They get beat on so they can kind of, they try to pass it. on, you know, they take it out on someone else, right? But at the end of the day, you're still to get by in those pods. You know, I've seen things work in there and people helping each

other more than I've ever seen on the outside. Yeah. It's got to be tough. It's definitely an interesting environment where you kind of see the dynamics of who's compassionate versus who's not compassionate and I'm sure it was tough for you to be having that much life experience and see this whole new setting. My day was pretty, you know, easy. I would, you know, print out some things for them, you know, puzzles, things they were trying to work on, you know, help them with their little prayer groups, play music for them every once in a while, you know, just we'd have a great day, you know, figure out, they

figure out, okay, what's going to be on the TV? You know, we had two TVs, you know, just my day would run pretty smooth. It was just, you know, management that doesn't come in and see what's going on and doesn't spend time with us, you know, they're the ones that can throw a wrench. Yeah, what I mean about tough is like mentally tough because you see all these people that don't care and aren't helpful in the system. Yeah. It was mentally tough at times, but just seeing some of the change and some of the differences

that I can. I remember having a media interview and then one of my, I was outside. We were doing a protest. And one of the people that was helped me in the tanks, he came out. He also got interviewed online. So just when you see these things happen. And just like when I knew testifying or I knew I was eventually going to file a suit, like I just kind of know being from from Boston, like this is not my first litigation, you know. My first lawsuit was when I was 18 years old. I was working at a sports park.

And it was a winter snow tube in place. And I sued hockey hall of fame of Brad Park of the Bruins. Yeah, I was working 60, 70 hours a week, no overtime. And then I finally got injured and everything. He wanted me to use my mom's insurance. So we went to court and won. North Texas Tollway Authority, sued them, Chase Bank. You know, so just God has been preparing me to know.

When you understand, you know, mentally just like with you, like how you were able to get by on your days and come out here and you're doing these things, when you can just imagine and know what you're going to do, like you're all. I like it never really drained me. I put anything that drained me into action. Make any sense? Yeah. So you are doing actual media interviews while still employed by them?

Yes. They probably didn't like that too much. No. But I did it on my off days. So there was nothing in your contract that they could have terminated you for doing media interviews? First Amendment. I mean, if they do that, that's a big, right? That's a big, like I never lost my T-coal license or anything.

Like, they knew, like, I know my rights, right? They don't want to have a bigger case. But as an inmate, you, is that your rights are taken away? Like, we have to sign something going into a halfway house that we can't do media interviews. use. Oh, as a worker. I mean, the house never trained on that. They never told me anything about that. And they never brought it to my attention. As long as as you're in Texas, like you can't, you can't, you can't, let's say now. Like, what is when the unions like stop work? Let's say you have a labor strike. Yeah, strike. Like you can't strike. As long as it wasn't during my shift.

Interesting. Yeah. So it's fine in the loopholes. I'm pretty sure the feds make their workers, though, sign some type of agreement. Yeah, we can look. We can look at it. She had your platform. She went viral like with Kennedy. Yeah, she was a state one. Yeah.

That was an opportunity there. And she was also kind of fed up with it. So it worked out, you know, for the better. And then you have all these ex guards that do come on and share these stories about how it really is. And they want to air that out and probation officers. And I'm even having a lot of associate wardens that reach out to me now. And ex-wardens, federal, everything that want to reach out and share their stories, which is really cool to see that because there's none of these interviews out there.

And all like the interviews that like 60 Minutes does and CNN are kind of like staged to when they send reporters into the prisons and the feds are like, here, have these guys come in. It's never, you know. When I was there, they were, they clean everything up. they make it look a certain way presentable, and they don't want you to say anything. A lot of it worth our inspections, they would just do like one floor. You know, they wouldn't do like the psych floor or the behavior opposition.

They would just do the first floor with the trustees. Yeah, because they don't know what you're looking for anyways. So they do that intention. Yeah, and that's what they're counting on. They're counting on the outside world not to care about those people in there. But there's a saying that you know a country by the way it treats, it's incarcerated. So do you get fired or do you quit? What happens? A lot of it is I tried to file all my things with disability. It didn't work. I knew I didn't feel right to go back and everything. And then eventually I was fired, which works to my advantage. I was not going to, you know, resign because I knew that they had to accommodate me. Because I just knew like, you know, I wasn't feeling right. And I have to go and try to, you know, get better.

And that's the thing is, too, when you're trying to, so during COVID, 99.9 of our filings for officers were denied. Like, I have this from the HR, you know, and all the information I have for the depositions and all that. 99.9. Like, they don't want people to miss any time because they know with just a little people having to go out for six or injury, their jail would not run. And did they do mandated overtime there as well? It's all forced. It's all forced. And you don't even, you don't even know it. Five minutes before your shift's about to end, they'll call you up and say, you have to stay.

So even if you had a fresh worker that didn't work that day covering for you, they would say, well, I'm going to make that person work too and you work as well. Yeah, I don't understand how the legalities of that. Because like, if you work at a grocery store or something, they can ask you to do overtime or they can't make you. So why is that not the same in a place like this? Right. And what the way they would do it by calling you over the phone, they make it look like you volunteer to do it. Like they don't put that in writing. Because you're not salary, you're hourly, right?

Right. Yeah, so I don't understand how that works how they could force you into that. Right. And how can you operate, you know, on that? And 16 hours would have workers driving home getting in car accidents. Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, when I was in the shoe for a few months, you would always at the end of the shift, some guy would call out like five or ten minutes before their shift starts, which is crazy.

and then the guy would get the officer working the tier would get a call from the lieutenant or the sergeant, hey, you got to work the next shift and he's stuck there. It's wild. Yes. And you've already been there for eight or ten hours and you're there again. Right.

I couldn't do that. Right. And a lot of it, you're not really doing anything either. Right. Like you're just walking around, you're sitting at your computer. So it's, I would fall asleep. Like, I would literally fall asleep.

Yeah. And then when there's no storms and Texas closes for four days, we have to make it there. And if you're a few minutes late, they'll write you up. So what was your exact cause for termination in like the paperwork? I think it was returning. You know, they wanted me to return sooner than I could return. I guess there's no way I could do that work under, you know, the condition I was.

And then to go in a pod, you know how it is. If you're around all different kinds of people, if you're on behavioral observation, you look like this. You know, some people can take this the wrong way. They don't know what it is. I didn't even know what it was, you know, fully, you know. So they, would they send you a letter or they called you? Okay.

And just said you are terminated for not coming back from your leave. Yeah, for coming back from when they wanted me to come back, which is very tough because they have a system there when you leave that they'll pay you some money. And some people donate their time, their extra money overtime and everything. But only certain people that they favor get this thing. So they could have found hours for me to pay me something while I was able to figure this out. Or they could have, you know, accepted my disability paperwork or all these things.

Like they make all these hoops for you. And you're pretty exhausted at the time. And, yeah. So if they had accepted your disability paperwork and let you, what does it, retire with disability? Well, I would come back. Maybe I'd do 20 hours or, you know, 40 hours, but just, you know, no. you know, forced mandated things. Like there could have been many things that I could have done. And you would have been okay with that for an outcome. Yeah. So when they work with me, you know.

Yeah. So when they terminate you, what happens next? Do you automatically file a lawsuit or? Yeah. Well, I was working on that while while this was, you know, going on. And what year was this? It was 2022. And then a lot of it to find an attorney is very hard. Like I know how to find an attorney, send information, all that stuff. And it took me a while, you know, to find one. But a lot of the coworkers, they could never, you know, find one. They'll file the EEOC complaint, which they didn't do anything, gives you the right to sue, and then you only have 90 days to five an attorney. So I was able to find the attorney. And recently my attorney from all this and all that he has going on, he had three heart attacks. Wow. Yeah, but he was able to file my suit.

And after that, he had to close his practice understandably. Why is it hard to find an attorney for these type of cases? A lot of it is you're going against their outside attorney. But then you have to go against the district attorney. So you have to go against the district attorney. And you're looking for someone that's taking on the case on a contingency, not a paid attorney. I paid mine to start. And it's a blended. So you pay a little bit and then they get a percentage.

So you would think that it would be easier then if they're getting paid. I can understand if it was fully contingency, they might not want to take the case. A lot of it with the lawyers, you know, they're all part of the same country clubs, the same bar. and they don't really want to make waves in that world. And then you're going against the government, you know, the district attorney. So it's pretty intimidating for some attorneys to do that. Especially in Dallas. Dallas is very clickish.

Is this case still pending now? Yes. And I was just in court last week. And they haven't offered to settle or anything like that. Oh, no. They want to drag it out and drag it out and drag it out. And they hope that I just, you know, wear out. Wow, two years it's been going on for.

Yeah. That's what it usually is two to three years and then they'll finally settle. Okay. Pressure like this that we're doing like with this podcast, it helps. So do you think that they will settle? Do you see it going to trial? What do you envision? Yeah, I see them settling because they don't want this in front of the jury. Now, have you been retaliated against after leaving the department? Not so much. You know, they know not to, they know I know how to defend myself. And that would just help my case even more. because when I testified for the inmates, the federal judge, Ada Brown, she mentioned if they retaliate against me that she's going to be my first witness.

And you were just a witness in that. You weren't the actual plaintiff. Right. But she said going forward, if they do anything, and then I have a suit like I do now, she'll be my first witness and she is on my witness list. Now, do you have other correctional officers that are a part of this with you or is it just you? It's mostly me, but for witnesses, I can put down anyone. And if they want to come, they can. If not, we subpoena them.

And then they have to testify. What does your family think about all of this? They just know, that's how I am. They just know I'm built this way. And I wrote up a lieutenant as well during this whole thing, too. So do you feel like this was your calling or your purpose to do this? Yeah, this is where I'm supposed to be. Like, I know, like, God put me there and I have the tools to do the research.

I already have the media contacts. I know my way around the court. So I was just able to be a voice for others. Do you ever think that you would have been living a, you know, like a more simpler, happier life if you never even, you know, took on this role? I think I would have been upset of myself if I didn't speak up. So what do you do now? What is what's like a day to day now? Day to day like I still occasionally help out on some elections, you know,

I'll help some candidates. Just got approved for my SSI. So that was a big relief. Now I'm working on my SSDI, my disability. So that will, that usually just gets rejected and then you have to appeal it. I have an attorney for that. That's going to be a lot easier to do.

How do people treat you around town? Not much has really, you know, change. that that's kind of like the same. Like they know how I am, who I am, and they respect me because I respect them. Like is it like small town vibes where everyone knows who you are and you're the one that, you know, suing the one of the biggest county jails? Yeah, in that environment, there's a few people that are just, you know, active and involved in everything. And you see the same clicks, the same groups and everything.

What about your former coworkers? Yeah, they're still rooting for me, which is really good. we have a co-worker group and I'll post this podcast on there. Awesome. Yeah. And we'll definitely get you some federal folks that you can interview. Oh, you know some federal officers? I'm pretty good at getting people and reaching out to them.

And I'm pretty persistent. Great. We'll get, yeah, just make a list of people that you want to try to. Yeah, any type of federal law enforcement officers. I've been getting federal air marshals lately. I'm not sure if you listen to the show or not. But there was some show that I watched. I was like, oh, this guy's cool.

Let me reach out to him. And then you responded back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm very good about responding. I'm always looking through my DMs and the emails because you never know like what story could pop in there. But I've been getting air marshals. I've been getting some really cool guests, which is cool Homeland Security agents.

Yeah, and just dream big. All the people you thought you couldn't get, make a list and I'll reach out to them. Yeah, definitely. So what advice would you give to? people that want to get into, you know, the correctional officer field, working in jails, working in prisons. What advice would you give to those individuals? Just be persistent and just apply and just, you know, get in there and you're going to get rejected a few times if you have no context, but just keep staying at it. And then just also advocate for people that are in the system.

A lot of people have a friend or family member that are in the system or could be in the system. And just imagine that you could be, you know, for me, if I didn't have my single mom that advocated for me, I could have probably been in there. Has your opinion changed on those who are incarcerated or have been incarcerated since, you know, going through all of this? Absolutely. I just know that they need, you know, a friend, family. They need advocates.

They need programs in there to help them with skills. And I mean, you have a captive audience. Like, you know, we're not just watching TV all day and gambling all day, right? Give them the skills. And they're hungry for it, you know, knowledge and information. And a lot of them in there, they're hungry for. it. So when this gets resolved, what do you think you're going to do? Because this is a lot of your life right now, you know, I feel like maybe a part of you even likes that, you know, like going up

against this and fighting for something. What will you do after? I continue to advocate, you know, maybe work with you on some projects and like to testify in Washington, D.C. on it because we're behind on how we do all these things. What do you think are the biggest changes that they, that the government or people in general should make to facilities like this. We have the media tour of the place. We have management tour of the place, elected officials, family and friends toward a place, and advocates. The more eyes that are on this place, the better on these places.

Because a lot of it, you know, the bad things are done in darkness. And they're done with people that want to do bad, management that wants to do bad. They know, well, who's going to believe these people? You know, no one's going to come in here and see what's going on. But I think we're going to see some huge changes, and I've seen some huge changes. Are there things that could be implemented now that don't need necessarily, like, government approval that, like, say, a warden or officers themselves can implement now without going through all the congressional, you know, red tape? I think a lot of it having, like, associations and unions and having attorneys, you know, just something, you know, checks and balances. because one side has a lot of the government immunity,

you know, the king can do no wrong. Well, you need checks and balances. If you got workers and associations and labor groups, and in this mandated stuff, get rid of the mandated stuff, hire part-timers on the weekends, 20 hours. There's a lot of older officers that cashed out, but they would still do it part-time 20 hours. Something I've seen effective, like in Connecticut,

they post about how there's like a group of federal judges that go into facilities, like the detention centers and stuff. And I think that kind of holds accountability to. Yeah, you get some federal judge poking around? That's a big deal. Yeah, I think they do like monthly or bi-monthly walkthroughs. And they go and they check it out and, you know, just do a walkthrough. I think that that's what should be done in a lot of these.

They should almost mandate that. From Connecticut, you don't really hear these problems. Then they do exist, you know. But not as much, right? Yeah, probably not as much. Yeah, I mean, I think these types of issues. Just like up north in Boston, we know we have some issues. They don't exist.

But if it does, it comes out and there's lawyers and litigation and just like in Connecticut. Yeah, I think more people need to be willing to speak up. I mean, there were so many officers that I've encountered that have seen wrongdoing and they're just, you know, they're afraid to speak up. They don't want to be retaliated against. They don't want to lose their job because you're going up against the government essentially. A lot of it is you don't speak up. You'll lose something anyway.

You know, you might lose your life. You know, he might lose your heart. You could lose anyway. Going to those federal judges in Connecticut, have you reached out to them? No, I haven't. I actually had the clerk and the ex-clerc of the judge that sentenced me in my case reach out. And she sent me a message, which was really cool. And she was like, hey, you know, I was the clerk during your or an intern clerk during your trial, yada, yada, yada.

And just think it's really cool that you were able to create this and turn everything around. I would reach out to those federal judges and see what doors they can open and maybe we can do something with them. you know what judge I was talking to? The judge I was on the Parkland School Shooter's case. Oh, wow. I was, because she retired after, and I was talking to her team. They didn't email me back after that, but I have been trying to get her on the show. And I was like, I don't even care.

We don't have to talk about the shooting stuff because she didn't even really want to talk about that case. And I was like, I just want to have a judge on the show. I think that would be an interesting conversation. Yeah, I love it. As you know, is just getting past their gatekeepers. Yeah. What I found is most of these individuals themselves will do it. it's getting through their, like you said, gatekeepers, the publicists, the press people,

once you get through that and you form relationships with these individuals. Yeah. And it'll happen in time as a platform continues to grow. Yeah. Some people are dying for a platform. They're dying to speak, you know, especially a retired judge. Yeah. You know, they want to write the wrongs.

And they want to make sure it's not twisted and it's organic and there's good intentions behind it. And I think that's what this kind of platform allows to do. But Officer Lewis, thank you for. coming out here on the show today and sitting down and talk with me and sharing your perspective. And I hope everything works out with the case and definitely keep in touch. Thank you, Ian, for having this platform. And I want to talk about the memory of Officer Cooper, Officer Bailey, Officer Halloway, and also many detained that were lost by the Dallas County Jail. And I hope we can make change. So in the future, we don't lose the detained.

and we don't lose officers.