Locked In with Ian Bick - Ex-Criminal Turned Undercover Cop | Charlie Roberts

Episode Date: January 1, 2025

Retired Criminal Investigator Charlie Roberts shares his journey from a life of crime to becoming an undercover cop. In this episode, Charlie talks about the decisions that led him down a criminal path, what motivated him to turn his life around, and how he worked as an undercover officer. He provides insight into the challenges, risks, and lessons learned from living on both sides of the law. #ExCriminal #UndercoverCop #CrimeToJustice #RedemptionStory #UndercoverLife #TrueCrime #LawEnforcement #TransformationJourney Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Charlie Roberts: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-roberts-jr-74938b90/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@ProbationOfficersPerspective Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Journey from Ohio to Locked In 00:06:55 Impact of Father's Absence on Family Dynamics 00:11:06 Early Influence and First Experiences with Substances 00:16:27 Expulsion and School Struggles 00:21:47 Unlikely Friendship with a Bully 00:27:24 The Path of Influence and Choices 00:33:29 Teenage Drama and Legal Troubles 00:38:52 Arrest and Bail Story 00:44:43 Turning Life Around After Incarceration 00:49:54 Unexpected Summer in Ohio 00:56:00 Challenges with Gun Purchases and Felony Records 01:01:15 Undercover Operations: Tricks of the Trade 01:07:06 Transitioning to a Felony Probation Officer 01:12:46 Unusual Court Case and Probation Turmoil 01:18:23 Caught in a Personal and Professional Dilemma 01:24:25 Overcoming Addiction: A Personal Journey 01:29:49 Community Support and Resources Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Charlie, welcome to Lockton. You drove here from Ohio. What was that? Like a 10-hour drive? Yeah, it was about 10 hours. We have so many guests. We were just talking about it that come from Ohio. What a small world. Yeah, I know. I've just seen a lot. The sheriff, the probation officer from Ohio. The sheriff was the very first one. He like opened the floodgates to all the Ohio people. Do you know of him at all? No, I've heard of him. He's up north. I live down like central, south central Ohio. and he's from way up north by the lake. Gotcha. Well, thank you again so much for coming.

I want to plug in your YouTube channels. You have a couple if you want to just tell the audience about those. Yeah, I had criminal to cop. That one is my, I call it my videography because it's like an autobiography. I started about my life from the very beginning. But I'm still working on it because I stopped it. and just because the, you know, all the chapters, I want to, I don't want people to be able to wait and, or have to wait, you know, and be like, oh, all right, I'm getting into it and then stop. So, but I am working on that one still at criminal the cop and then I have probation officer's perspective.

And that's my main channel and everybody's like been plugging in and on that channel there. That's awesome. And I want to shout out Chad Marks. He was one of the original YouTubers that brought you on. his show, Blood on the Razor Wire, and he was on my show, and just all-around great guy, we were just talking about that. Yeah, he is. He's great. Like, when I first just started my YouTube channel, my son, who's 12, kept son, Dad, you need to do a YouTube channel, and I'm like, I don't know how to do all that.

And he's in media in school, so he was like, I'll help you do it, you know, and he got a good story, you know. And so I was just like, I was like, okay, yeah. You show me how to, you know, start it up. I mean, I'm computer literate, but not when it comes to, like, YouTube or videos. And so then he got me started. And I just reached out to a couple people. And I noticed, like, a lot of people on YouTube, these content creators, man, won't give you the time of day.

Chad Marks was right on it. He's a great dude. Yeah. Gave me that opportunity. Although I was nervous. Like, I was still nervous getting in front of the camera at my house, you know, doing my own video. and then he brings me on his channel. He's always 100% going.

So it was pretty good. It is nerve-wracking. I procrastinated for like two months. I had all the equipment ready. When I first made my first selfie videos on the iPhone, I couldn't do it. It was embarrassing. Even now, like my friend JD Delight, he can go into a public place like an airport and scream into his phone. I can't do that.

I don't like doing that in public places. Like I will if I have to. But I don't know. just like a thing. I like to be with no one's around making the videos. I get you. I'm the same way. Like,

I can't just, I mean, I've done it, like you said, a little bit, but I don't like to whip out my phone and be like, people are looking at you and stuff like that. Yeah.

But some people just don't care, you know. But then this doesn't bother me at all. Like this kind of set up. Like when the cameras are rolling, like it just feels natural and comfortable and good. I guess it's also because of like the environment, you make it and whatnot.

Exactly. That's just it. So you didn't grow up in Ohio, though. You grew up in California? Correct. Where in California? Salinas, California. Okay, what was that like growing up?

We lived in a... I don't want to say what I say. I was going to say the middle... Because I keep hearing that saying the middle-class neighborhood. But if you know what I mean, the reference. But I grew up in a middle-class neighborhood, like not upper or lower, just regular middle-class. I have two older brothers. My dad at the time, he was from Ohio, but he got stationed in the military.

And that's how he met my mom because my mom was from California. And so I grew up with two older brothers. Things were good. And then my dad was an alcoholic. He was a functioning alcoholic because he worked for Firestone where they made tires. And he worked there for a while. until they closed a plant down, and then he ended up splitting when I was by 11 years old.

But I just remember when being a kid, I mean, he was pretty abusive, and the alcoholism in really got to him, and it just created a big mess. My mom, rest of the peace, she passed away in 2010, but she worked full-time for Pacific Bell back then, so that I don't know if that's one of the landlines, you know what I mean?

word for Pacific Bell, the phone company, and retired from there. How old were you when you found out he was an alcoholic or had an addiction issue? I was little. You know, it's weird because, you know, when you're a certain age, you can't remember exactly what age you're at. I just know I was a little kid and my dad would come home from work. Like, say, he worked night shift. And I could hear, like, it would wake me up.

You could hear him, like, bumping into the walls and being loud or throwing up. or falling down, be passed out in the hallway, or my mom arguing with him, you know, telling him to keep it down, the kids are asleep, you know, and, you know, he was just, I would see a very young age. I remember putting my pillow over my ears,

you know, and I wanted to hear any of that stuff. But I would say very young, you know, maybe six or six years old, five or six. I don't know, but it was young. What was your relationship with your brothers during that time? During that time, we were all close family like me and my brothers. My mom always tried to get us all to do or, you know, take pictures and dress us all the same, you know.

And all my older brothers are all three years apart. So I'm the youngest. So they're all three years older, you know, three years and then six years older than me. But then we were a good, you know, we were good now. We don't even talk anymore. Was that because everything that happened in your life? I think so. because a lot of stuff happened

and my brothers were good kids and they were, they got good grades, they never got in trouble, and my dad left, which, you know, a lot of people say, oh, me, and when your parent leaves, it's, you know, it's devastating. And it was, to me, I was 11 years old.

I was relieved. I was actually happy that he was gone because just all the, you know, drama and stuff that, happened it was no more my mom was safe you know everybody was safe and it's kind of way i looked at it even though you were happy at the time do you think it had a kind of profound effect on what would come in your life after your dad not being around 100% i believe it it did because i didn't want to believe that until i was older in life and i was an adult because all the shit that i did when i

was younger, that it all, my mom would tell me, you know, it's because your dad's, you know, your dad left and then, you know, they got divorced. And back in the 80s or the, that would have been like in the late 70s, early 80s, that wasn't the norm. Like all my friends had mom and dad, you know, it just wasn't, you know, that wasn't the norm for, you know, that era growing up in the 70s in the 80s and having a dad there, you know, it did, you know, it was rough because, you know, I played sports and things like that and not having my dad there to be there. But it really didn't bother me at that time. But I felt like, yeah, it had a lot to play because my mom worked all the time, which got me where I just started getting into doing stuff at 12 years old.

How would kids describe you? I know you said you were doing sports. but overall, were you like a happy? Yeah, I was a happy. I was a good kid. You know, I was, I had all, you know, we were all friends, everybody in the neighborhood, no matter which part of the neighborhood you lived in, you know, had lots of friends. I'd say they would all say I was a, you know, a good guy, you know, happy kid, fun. But so I didn't let anything bother me.

So what happened when you're around 12 or 13? So I'll tell you what. kind of started it when I was, this was right before my dad left, I was 10, and I had a paper route because I was trying to make my own, you know, money. In back, you know, in the high school was just right down the street about five blocks down the road. And I got apartment complex, which just sucks. So I didn't get to go out on the street and just throw the paper around their driveway. So me and my buddy were walking so I could go collect money. It was collection time. and there was two guys from this gang from you know another part of town that were you know on the side of town I lived in and we're walking to the apartments and uh my friends that came in those guys are from this gang you know and I'm like I don't care you know they don't own the road and I'm only 10 at this point and I have never been in like any fights or anything like that at this point I'm like they don't own the road you know what I mean or the sidewalk so

he's like dude let's turn around let's turn around i was like i'm not turning around so i just kept walking and i thought my friend was right here the whole time so they split apart as we get closer to them and the next thing i know i just boom i got tagged so you know and then fell down they were jumped on top of me and i really didn't know how to fight i mean i was trying to kick and do whatever i could think my friend was there helping and it's a four-lane road there so a car stop guy got out and then they took off running. I got up, got my bearings together. My friend was, he had ran, I guess, after right when we got up to those guys.

And he was like an aunt. Man, I looked down there. He was so far away. But that's kind of what started it. And then when I got home, my dad was a really rough dude growing up. Like, he fought all the time. And that was another thing I remember when I was a kid. But kind of past that.

But I got home and I had to, you know, know, I was leaking a little bit here and, you know, I got it in the eye. And my dad's like, what happened? So, and I told him, and he's like, I go, these two guys jumped me, you know, and he grabbed the baseball bat and said, get your ass in the car. We're going to fucking look for him. I'm like, going, okay, I didn't know what he was going to do, but I know my dad, he's pretty mean, so he would have probably, but we never found him, you know, we drove around

the neighborhood all over and never found him. But I just wanted to get that out of the way. And that kind of, after that, then my dad split after that when I was, you know, 11. And then when I was 12, the drinking, my dad drank all the time. And I remember even before he left, he'd be passed out in the chair and I'd get behind him and slam, you know, take a cup of drinks of his beer. And then when I was 12 years old, I started smoking weed because I got into junior high school. So I had a lot of friends from the neighborhood that were already, like, a year. year older than me, you know, they didn't have middle school. It was seventh and eighth grade.

And they would, there's an elementary school right across from my house and there's a bus stop back there because we had to go across town. Other than that, you know, all the schools, the high school, one of the high schools, the elementary schools right across from my house, I didn't have, never have to take a bus. But for junior high, I did. So they were all smoking weed. Well, not all of it, not everybody, but a couple of my friends. you know, they were over there, there's a little park right there, and they'd be over there smoking weed. And they're like, hey, man, Charlie, come here, man, you want to try it.

And so I started, yeah, and I started smoking weed. And that's how I ended up started. And it was before school, at lunch, after school, just became a habit, you know, so. When your dad did that with the baseball bat and, you know, hop in the car, do you think that was his way of, like, showing you love for you that you might not have experienced before? Probably because, you know, to this day, my dad is 81 years old. He's never told me he loved me and my whole life. He's never said, I'm proud of you.

He's never done anything like that. Well, yeah, I guess the way he shows his love is different. That's maybe the way he was brought up. And I think, in a sense, that was it. And it was always, I have your back, you know what I mean? It's all about family. But his ways, it's different. but you're right

how much do you feel that you know not having that feeling of love played a part in the path you would end up choosing in life I think it did a lot I did a lot because I tell my kids I have kids

and I always tell them I love them I which is something that in our household we didn't say you know like I love you or anything like that we just didn't say it and that was just the way I was brought up Yeah. I think that's why I like I love love so much because my parents like gave me so much love me and my brother and they showed us like what love is. So like when I love someone like I love hard. Yeah. And it's just like but I've also seen, you know, sitting across from some of the individuals on our show who've never experienced that before growing up. And they're trying their best to kind of convey that onto the people that they love in their lives. Exactly. That's kind of how it is. Yeah. It's just yeah. Because after that, I mean, that was. I mean, he showed me that.

And then, like, other than that, the only other memory I have is a child other than him being, like, he was a little league coach and president of the little league. My mom was like the treasurer. We were all in the baseball really, you know, really big. But the only other time was I was a little, again, you know, when you're my age, you don't remember at what age it was. You just remember certain traumatic things that, you know,

that you never forget. Like I couldn't tell you other things, but I do remember like this dude came to the door, this big guy. He came knocking at the door and I was just a little kid. I was watching TV and my dad was sitting in the recliner and he knocked at the door. My dad opens up the door and then he shuts the door and he's like, hey, stay sitting down and don't come to the door and don't look out of the window. I'm like, okay. And then he opened up and then I can hear him yelling, I'm arguing with something. guy. So I go look, of course, I'm going to look out the window. So I look out the window.

And this dude, my dad's my height. So, you know, he's like 5, 7 or something. This guy's like six foot, big dude. In the front yard, all I see my dad, he's a lefty like me, South Paul. He just punches this guy, knocks him out. The guy laying in the grass, turns around and walks in the house. I seen him walking back to the house. A hurry, man sat down in front of the TV, you know what I mean? And I was just like, wow. Wow, that's crazy. And then my dad just went back, sat down, I was reclining like it was nothing. But, yeah.

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Wayfair, every style, every home. That's crazy. Now, take us through high school. Do you make it through high school? Do you graduate? What happens? No. So do you want me to tell you how the first time I got in trouble?

Trouble? Yeah. Bring us through it. Okay. So I started selling weed when I was in the seventh grade. And I started fighting. I started getting them fights and stuff. And I was smoking weed, but I was smoking weed, but I, I was,

I didn't have the money. My mom was raising three boys, you know, working. And so I, you know, did whatever I could do to hustle. And so I started selling joints. Like everybody back in the, this is the early 80s, you know. So you buy an eighth. I'd buy an eighth of weed. And then I'd roll a bunch of pinner, skin, or joints,

and then go to school and then be like, there were three bucks a piece or two for five. And then I'd make enough money where I'd have my own little bit to smoke. And then, but, you know. So I got expelled in the, the seventh grade, the end of the seventh grade. Luckily, it was just at the end of the year, but I had been suspended a couple times. And then I went back in the eighth grade.

And I was running with a little gang that we started and like clicked up in California there. And so I always carried a night. I carried a switchblade actually. You don't even hear about switchblades anymore, but I had a switchblade in my pocket. I used to carry to school just in case because you just never know. and I went in the bathroom and I had enemies and stuff so I go into the bathroom

to take a piss and I'm at the urinal I heard the door, it was during class so you know there wasn't a bunch of people in there but I was the only one in there I heard the door open

and then I turn around and there's three guys sitting there and they're taking their jackets and shit off and I'm like oh you know it was a rival you know and so I just stuck my hand in my pocket and I'm like

turned around I go what's up and I turned around I act like nothing and then I turned around and then then I just freaking whipped out my knife and I didn't I never used a knife like you know didn't know what to do but I was just like I started swinging it at them and all this and then like 15 minutes

after that I went back to class and stuff I get called up to the principal's office and believe or not being these guys were in you know another gang they somebody told on me somebody told on me so the cops come The cops came and I had shoved my knife in my locker inside my jacket pocket. Like stupid, like they're not going to check my locker. Like, you know, I should have shoved it.

Normally I'd throw it in a bush or something, you know, outside of the school. So I put it in the locker and they pull me in the principal's office. The cops come. They search me. I don't have anything on me. And the weed, I did get rid of the weed, though. I had weed on me too. I got rid of the weed.

I gave it to him with my buddy. But the knife, I don't know why. I stuck it in thinking that I'm going to stick it in my locker. So what's the first thing place they go after they searched me was my locker? So I went to juvie for that. And I felt bad, man, because my mom would always have to come pick me up. Every time I got in trouble, it would be like he's fighting. You got to come get him.

You know what I mean? He's suspended for three days or whatever. And so I ended up doing 30 days in Juvenile Hall for the night. and they're trying to, said I tried to stab these guys. But, you know, and juvenile hall in the jail, this crazy is only two blocks away from my house.

From where I lived, like right there at the end of the street. But, yeah, I ended up doing 30 days in juvenile hall. And they didn't have probation or if they did back then, like we're talking to 8, 1980, 81, or 1980. So I did 30 days in juvenile hall. And then after that,

I had to go to court like once a week for a month or two months where the judge with my mom to just check and make sure I was staying out of trouble, which I was. I was trying to keep myself out of trouble because they said if you don't stay out of trouble, then it's going to be all bad. And then that was it. And then I got, so eighth grade, I had to repeat English. But I got to tell the story and I told it before.

but so my English teacher I used to cut up in her class so much and goof around and do dumb shit come in there high and she was a really nice old lady and she was like I had to take her class again and when she saw that I was in her class again she's like oh no Charlie please don't make

this year miserable for me and I'm like no and then she's like she honestly gave me a pass a hall pass and said if you just go walk around and do whatever during class, she's like, I'll give you a passing grade so that I didn't have to be in her class. I'm like, okay.

I mean, not all the time, but most of the time, you know, I mean, I had to be in her class sometimes. But my friend had snakes, and he was selling these snakes, like he would catching them, and he was putting them in a bag. And so at one time I had this, you know, the crown royal bag, like a velvet bag.

I had the snake in there. It was a goat, I think it was like a gopher snake or something. So I sat down in her class and I was showing everybody. She's like, Charlie, what do you have? And I'm like, no, you don't want to know. She's like, no, bring it up here. I'm like, I'm telling you, you don't want to know.

You don't want it. It's nothing. She's like, bring it here. I'm like, okay, I bring it up there. And I'm like, she's like, what is it? And I opened up the bag and the snake popped his head out at her. And she jumped up, screamed through everything. Ah!

Of course, I got in trying to. for that too, but, uh... I can't believe he was selling snakes. I hate snakes. I would have been so afraid. Yeah, he was catching snakes and I don't... He lived out like in the country or something, and he would just go out there and, like, catch snakes

and flip rocks over looking for him and catch him and bring him to school and sell them to people. It was crazy. Wild. Yeah. How much would he sell a snake for? I don't even remember, honestly. Maybe $10 or something or $5. I don't even know.

What a hustle. Yeah. And that guy was a... It's funny is how we became friends. He was a bully. And in the seventh grade, I didn't know him from, because, again, every school up to junior high I went to, it was all the neighborhood. So I knew everybody, everybody. When you go across town, then you're getting people from all, you know, parts of town that you don't know.

And with him in the seventh grade, he used to bully people in math. class and my math teacher he would just sit there and read the newspaper he would tell you you know what your assignment was and then he would sit there and read the newspaper and he came up and um he sat like i sat in this row he sat one desk behind me in the next row but he was always like making people do shit for him and punking him out and he threw his pencil off his desk towards me and he goes hey jump and i just ignored him he's like hey and i turned around and i turned around He's like, yeah, you. You know, and he's like, pick up my pencil.

And then I just turned back around again. So he came over. And then that was one thing my dad always taught us how to don't put up with nobody's shit or bully or whatever. So he came over to my desk because, you know, a teacher wasn't paying attention. He said, he got on my face and he said, I told you to pick up my pencil chump or some shit. And I just stood up and acted like I was going to do the pencil. And I just freaking I hit him as hard as I could in the nose, splatted it. his nose. And then the teacher looked down. He's like, hey, both you guys are the principal's

office. And that's how we became friends. Because after that, we went to the principal's office. His nose was all smashed up and bleeding. And then he was like, after that, he was like my friend. That's great. Crazy. So then what happens after that? You don't make it to high school then? So I make it to high school. I did make it to high school. I actually started off playing football my freshman year and then just too much partying where I just didn't you know what I mean um and I got kicked out my sophomore year it was my sophomore year or my beginning of my junior year I had been suspended several times several times for several different things fighting, skipping school, and whatever.

And I ended up getting kicked out of school. When I did, I want to say it was beginning of my junior or into my sophomore year. And I was flunk in all my classes. I wasn't turning my work in. My mom was working all the time. So, like, I kind of took advantage of, you know, that whole situation. Like, she's at work all the time. My brothers are older, so they have jobs.

You know, I think my oldest brother. He was out of the house at that time. And so they sent me to a continuation school. I got kicked out of the whole district. We have five high schools. I can't go to none of them. I had to go to this continuation school for bad kids. And I'm thinking, okay, this is actually better because you either pick mornings or

afternoons. You could go, I think it was like 815 to 1115 and you're done. Or you could do whatever, 1215 to 315 and then you're done. And I took the early morning, but I got kicked out of there, too. Do you think if your mom wasn't working so much, she would have kept you kind of on a tighter leash to stay on track with everything? She tried. Even with her working, she tried, but I just wasn't, I was just not listening and sneaking and doing things. And she tried her hardest. And, you know, I didn't, it wasn't until I turned my life around and I was an adult that I, I, I, I, I,

I apologize to my mom about everything I put her through because here she is working full time and here I am a knucklehead screwing up all the time and they got to call her. So she has to leave work to come pick me up and take me home. You know what I mean? And then go back to work.

So she's missing out. I never, you know, I never thought about it back then, but she's missing out on time, you know, and money. And I was screwing it up and I didn't realize it. It was just, not good. What about aspirations for you?

Did you have any goals, dreams that you wanted to do, or were you just blah? I was. I mean, you know, when you're a kid, you want to be this and that. I want to be a professional baseball player. And because I was really into baseball, you know, growing up. And so were my brothers. But I just, it just went to shit when I, because I was always drinking. I mean, I was a very bad drinking, drinking.

So drinking, smoking weed. I got turned my cousin turned me on to coke when I was 14, which was not, you know, that was all bad there too. Because I started, you know, I was selling weed and then I was, we would drink all the time and, uh, me and my friends in the neighborhood, you know, we'd be partying or. And then my cousin turned me on to Coke. So then I started doing Coke when I was drinking at the age of 14, 15. And I started selling Coke too. So all this stuff plays like. part of my

the path I took which is not like the path you know my brothers took or anybody else took in my family well my cousin like he was four years older than me and he was like I looked up to him but he was not he was using drugs and drinking and partying but he was like everybody respected him

and he was crazy and everybody was like you know they just showed him respect so I like that that's who I look up to instead, you know, that was my, but just the wrong person to look up to, you know, at that now that I look back at it, but at the time, that was my, I had no aspirations as far as or any what I wanted to do with my life. I didn't, at that point I was still using and drinking and I didn't have no clue, selling drugs, making money that way. Do you end up getting arrested again?

Yeah, I ended up getting arrested when I was, I went to the county jail. I actually just had to call to find out because I thought it was like five times, seven times. I was in the Monterey County jail. I've been arrested for numerous, just stupid stuff. But the original charge felony that I got arrested when I was 19, it was in 1988 for possession of cocaine, trafficking cocaine, or controlled substance,

receiving stolen property and that's what I ended that was that was the end of of pretty much my arrests and that was all in like 18 yeah like so I was 18 I turned 18 in 1987 so from 1987 until September of 88 is when I got the felony I had already been to jail so six times seven count that I'd already been to the county jail like several times. times. And, but that, yeah, so that was, it was the cocaine. I was selling Coke. I was doing pretty good, making a lot of money.

You know, I had a roommate and he had to connect. And he was Mexican and he was, you know, a good friend of mine. And I actually met him through Little Caesar's Pizza. He was a manager. I was, and then I went to work, I was assistant manager. And then I ended up becoming manager of the other store across town. And if anybody remembers Little Caesars back then, it wasn't the $5 or $6 pizza. It was you got two pizzas for one price.

It was like $10.99 or $10. You got two pizzas. It was called, that's why that little Caesar guy goes, pizza pizza, pizza. It was because you got two pizzas, you know. But that's how I met him. And he was connected to, like, the dude that was connected to the cartels. hell, he was getting, so like I was getting it from my roommate and he was getting it where he got it, but he would never introduce me.

Finally, I get introduced to the connect. He likes me because I'm partying. I got girls and you know what I mean? But I was very business-like. I wasn't like him. Like I used, but I never, like, I was business first, and I would put my amount aside that I, for myself, you know, And then it was business. But my roommate started using and using and getting very sloppy.

So we moved around like three times or four times because, like, I only sold to the same people that I knew. People I grew up with, people that I knew personally. I always say, like, somebody ever came up to me and tried to buy something from you? If I didn't know them, I'm like, I don't know who you are, dude. I'm not sounding you shit. I don't know what you're talking about, you know. type person he would sell to anybody. So we were on our fourth apartment.

And the only, the smartest thing I ever did was I always kept my mail, my registration of my vehicles. Everything was at my mom's house. So everything, every time we moved, everything was in his name, not my name. So I always kept it separate, you know. So like my mail, my car registration,

and everything went to my mom's. And it kind of helped me, but I mean, I still kind of got screwed up. So I was driving with my girlfriend, and I dropped her off, and I was like, I'll be back in an hour, pick you up, and then we'll go to dinner or do whatever. I got some business to take care of.

So I pull in my truck, I had this little low rider truck, and I was driving by our apartment. You can see down the hallway on both streets, like there's a street here and a street behind. it and there was like two white bands and I didn't think nothing about it and so I pulled in the back parking lot and I still didn't see nobody but I had the stereo cranked up I put it in there and I parked it and the next thing I know I hear get your hands up and I got guns pointed out of my head they dragged me out of my truck the cops do and it was local like

it's not like it is now with the SWAT they had windbreakers on you You know what I mean back then. And some of the cops knew me because I'd been in trouble before. And some of my friends' brothers were cops, older brothers, or neighbors. But so they gave me out onto the ground. They handcuffed me. They take me into the apartment. And there's my roommate sitting on the couch with two girls and a guy.

They were all under 18 years old. At this time, like I said, we were 19 years old. But they worked. I knew them because they worked for him. They were employees, and he was partying with him. You know, they were like probably 17 years old or whatever,

and he was 19, but, and they had all the shit, like, you know, we had them big triple beam scales. And he, because he used to stay up and he was using, like always using Coke. He was up all the time.

So he was cutting all, pre-cutting all the bendals. We used to cut him out of a hustler. You know, And they come in bags and stuff like that. Ours, we always, back then you would cut up like a Hustler magazine penthouse, different sizes for the different amounts. And then you just folded over like an envelope, you put it inside, you know, whatever.

So he had a bunch of those already cut, pre-cut in the drawer, like tons, like hundreds of them. And but they had everything. Luckily, it was a low day. But it was all out on the counter. And I'm handcuffed because I had a warrant. from one of my charges that I didn't take care of. It was from a misdemeanor. And so I'm handcuffed.

They take me in there. He's not handcuffed. He's got the other two, the two girls and a guy there. They were partying. And they said, hey, Charlie. So what's all this? You know, this.

I said, I have no idea. Never seen it before in my life. What is it? You know? And they're like, don't play stupid. Your roommate. They pointed right out of him just told us, oh, this is all.

yours. But see, I didn't have anything on me or in my truck. So this was all in the house. I'm like, I don't know what the fuck

they're talking about because I ain't ever seen it. It's not mine. Anyways, I went to jail because I had a warrant. And he ended up getting arrested. And so they took us to the, well,

they took me to down to the police station instead of the county jail first, trying to get me to rat. You know, they tried to. Because they don't have, they have little couple holdings. selling cells there and that's it and then you got to go to the county jail and they kept pulling me in and out saying you know and they get a bunch of them together detectives and

whatever and this is what's going to happen to you in prison you know what I mean they're going to do this and big Bubba's going to do this you know trying to scare me and I just like I you know of course I'm not saying a word I'm just like I don't care oh really well all right man you know and they're like they got pissed because I was going to be in a smart ass you know So I get booked in the county jail and I got charged with what I told you, trafficking, cocaine, possession. We had weed too, but I never got charged with that, which was weird. I don't know if they took it and smoked it or what, but I never got busted for that. And then receiving stolen property.

So these guys that my roommate were selling to, he was selling to, you know, I don't know who all these people were, but there was two guys he was selling to. One of the guys I knew from school, I never, like, we went to school, but. but I never hung out with him and I never trusted him, never really cared for him or his older brother. And I kept telling him, like, look, dude, when we move this next time, I don't want them guys here. Like, if you want us out to him, that's your business, go take it somewhere else, but don't tell them where we live at.

So they get busted for 17, I think it was. They admitted to 17 burglaries and said they were trading car stereos and stuff to us for Coke, which they were, but they were trading my roommate, not me. Not every, you know, they weren't just like, he would never make any money if he was just trading. But anyways, that's, so the newspaper comes out to the news because, you know, there's no internet computers backed in. Everything's in the newspaper, everybody reads the paper.

You know, I've lived there my whole life. Everybody's, my friend's parents all read the newspaper. Here I am. 17 car burglaries, possession of cocaine, trafficking in cocaine, and all this stuff. And I'm in the jail, so I didn't see the paper at this point. You know, I had called my mom. She's like, she's like, they just put you in, you're in the newspaper. And for 17 burglaries, they said you admitted to.

And I'm like, what? What are they talking? I go, you need to call the newspaper, you know, or go down there and tell them to retract that statement. or I'm suing them, you know what I mean? So she did. She ended up calling them and then they did a little retraction of the story and took away the burglaries, but the damage was already done.

You know what I mean? People see that. And there's my name, you know what I mean? And it's like, man, I mean, not saying that the drugs was any better, but I'm not a thief, you know, I never stole anything from people. And so, yeah, that's what happened. And my mom got me an attorney. the guy that, like the connect, like I said, he was connected and he always had somebody with him, like two guys.

And he didn't speak very good English. It was a very nice guy, but he said, I owed him money. So he went to my mom's house. First he went to my girlfriend's house and threatened her. And then he went to my mom's house. And how he knew were my mom, because she moved to a new house. He found out, but he knew, and he found out. And, like, they were going to hurt.

My girlfriend told me on the phone that he said, you better come up with the, I think it was like $2,500 or something that I owed them. But what they were doing was testing me to see if I was going to snitch. Because my bond was $23,500. And my, I think it was $2,500. and my roommates was 225. And so he gets out. I'm still sitting in the jail.

I'm like, how do hell do he get out? So my cousin, one of my cousins, a female, she was a CEO at the county jail. She did the booking. And then one of my friends from baseball that I hung around with, like in school and smoke weed with, but since we were kids, I've known, his dad was the chief deputy.

So he was in charge of the whole jail. And Montere County Jail is off the hook. A lot of gangs. It's freaking big. And, but I asked my cousin, I was like, how did he get released? And she's like, he got a general release from court because he tried to say that he got released because they didn't take him to court within 72 hours for his arraignment. I'm like, this doesn't sound right, dude. They're not going to charge us with all these charges.

I'm getting dinged. And I wasn't even there. and they didn't even get anything on me. So, you know, I believe he snitched 100%. And after they went to my mom's house, I said, Mom, you got to get me out of here, out on bond, you know. So my mom put her house up, you know,

and got me bonded out. But when I got out on bail, I went and took care of them. It wasn't that. It was about, he wanted to find out if I was going to tell. And he didn't seem that I stood, you know, stuck it out, but my roommate didn't. And he told me that he's a, he goes, I don't want to say, you know, his name, but he said he's a rat.

He just went like this, he's a rat. And I was like, okay. And then I'm out on bail and I get a Coke fronted to me so I could go sell it, make some money while I'm out on bail. Like, it's crazy. How many discounts does USA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi- Vehicle discount, safe driver discount.

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app. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Save up to 30% your first year at LifeLock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. This is a paid message from GoFundMe. Meet Juan Naola. When his son was hospitalized for a viral infection, Juan started a GoFundMe to pay for medical expenses. It was 5K to pay the bill for my son, and I need only 22 hours. It was amazing. People really trust on GoFundMe. How did Juan raise $5,000 in Lerner? less than a day, he posted a short video on GoFundMe, telling his story in 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Be specific, be quick, and tell what are you going to be using the funds for? I was nervous to do it because it doesn't feel okay to ask money, but you shouldn't be nervous.

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No. So it doesn't go away. And a lot of people, like, when I did my other interview, you can tell people that are from the 80s that grew up my age. So what happened was, I ended up. going to prison for two years, state prison. It wasn't quite two years because good time and then my county time that I, that I was in there in the county.

But I ended up going to state prison for two years. But I didn't get charged with my attorney got the cocaine dropped. I guess I take that back. I had a gun in my truck and it was a stolen gun. So I got receiving stolen property and a stolen gun. But as far as the drugs went, my attorney played the whole, I wasn't on the lease. I had no mail going there. You know what I mean?

And so he was a good attorney and he got me. Like they dropped all the charges as far as that went against me. But I still got, I got tagged with the receiving stolen property and a stolen gun. Which was a felony? Yes. And you got the two years. So two years you go to prison and now, what is it, like early 20s or mid-20s? Oh, no.

We're talking 88, 89. I went to prison in... You're probably around 18, right? Oh, I was 19. Yeah, so early 20s you get out. No, it would have been... I got out in 1990. No, like 20 years old.

Oh, yeah. I got two thousands. I got you now. I thought you were talking about 2000s. I was 21 when I got out. I was 21 when I got out. And that was the last time you ever got arrested? It was, but I didn't get to go straight,

out from prison. Like, everybody gets to walk out the door and like, I mean, it was a short term. Like, obviously it was, but I don't, six months is too long in prison. Of course. So what happens? So I have a warrant for that misdemeanor that I didn't take care of that they originally arrested me for. They never took care of that. Somehow it didn't get taken care of. So I get, instead of getting let out, I get sent. They get a van and there's me and there's this other guy that he's got to go back to Monterey County Jail and they come and take us back to Monterey County Jail because we've got warrants. All for a misdemeanor they did all that?

Yes, because they write your name and then. I'm surprised they even cared. Yeah, they cared. I got 180 days in jail for that. But it gets better. So this guy that's in the van with me, He's like, like at this time, like you said, I'm 21. I think it was 21 years old, 20 or 21.

He's in the van and he's a big dude and he's blasted. Mexican guy, blasted with tattoos all over him. He's a lot older than me. Never says a word. Just looks real mean. I'm like, mean, those guys, you know. And we ride back back in the van. Never says a word.

We get to the county jail. Never says a word. And then they put us both in the same holding cell so we could go to court. and then he talks to me. Well, it was after we went to court. And I got the judge, my attorney, and I got a two-week stay, which I don't know if they do those anymore,

if you've even heard of them. I've heard of stays, yeah. Yeah. So what he did was, like, my grandma had passed away when I was locked up and stuff. And so I was, I told him I have a lot of stuff. I'd like to, you know, get my affairs in order. Before I got to do six more months in the county jail,

I got 180 days. So he gave me a two-week stay. and then to turn myself, I had to turn myself in in two weeks. So I'm sitting in jail and this guy, finally, it's just him and I, he starts talking to me. He's just telling me like, you know, when you're at that age and you're doing running around, running amok and doing the shit I was doing, I wouldn't listen to nobody. Everyone used to tell me, you'd end up in prison, you're going to end up dead, something's going to happen to you.

If you don't stop, well, I didn't care. I didn't listen to nobody. So I listened to him. he sat there and told me his whole life story where he had been YA and then prison in and out of prison his whole life and the gang life and he just said dude it's not it's not cut out for you there's much so much better for you out there it was really a very intelligent man and a scary looking guy too at that but I listened to him

and we both got released at the same time I had no one to pick me up at this time my mom had moved up north so she lived on the other side of Sacramento which was like five hours, four and a half, five hour drive. I didn't want to pick me up. None of my friends picked me up. And so his girlfriend picked him up, and then they gave me a ride. It's pretty cool. And I just gathered up my clothes.

All my stuff was at a friend of mine's house. I went over there. I just grabbed like a couple bags worth of clothes, like left everything else there, jumped on a Greyhound bus, went to my mom's and visited my mom up until three days. I think it was either two or three days before I was supposed to turn. myself in and I went to Ohio. Wow. And just bounced.

I never went and did the 180 days. Oh, so you never, you just took off. No, I split. Did that ever catch up to you to this day? No. And you know, because it was a misdemeanor. And the crazy thing was my license was suspended. He suspended my license for, it was five or ten years.

It was something stupid, something crazy because I had some drunk driving's in there when I was younger or two. but he had suspended my license. And when I got to Ohio, I went right into the, they called the BMW, the DMV, and went right in there

and got my driver's license. Yeah, I was just talking about this and someone the other day. They have a suspended license at one state. This still is acted. It still works, yeah.

If you have a DUI in one state, you go to another state and get a brand new license. Yeah, crazy. It's crazy, man. I thought it was just. But that's like state records or warrants.

Like you could be wanted in one state if it's not, if it's like a misdemeanor or something. Yeah, they're not going to come get you. Yeah, they're not coming to get you. You're going to get hassled like when they pull you over because I've had to do that. They're going to, it's going to come up and then they're going to call that county or wherever you're from. Do you want to come get them?

Nope. Okay. Well, you're good to go. Yeah, they're not doing anything of that. It's crazy. Yeah, I didn't know it was, whoops. I didn't know it was still, uh, that you could still do that. Yeah.

The only thing that doesn't work with is like those driver assessments when you got like a fine in New York or something. They want their money. otherwise a transfer's over to Connecticut. Oh, really? Yeah, I just paid $300 for like a traffic ticket. Not even speeding. It was like a traffic ticket.

Wow, for just a minor infraction. Yeah, they know how to get you with the money. It's crazy. Yeah, because it was like, I was worried, like, nervous for the first, you know, obviously when I first got there about this, this, they're going to come and get me, they're going to do this or that. But there was no computers back then. You know, the DMV wasn't LinkedIn.

In, cops didn't have computers in their cars. And when they called it in, they weren't linked to other states, you know, like it was. Now, if, so you're talking 1990. So if you're like some of these, a couple guys I've talked to were like, well, they had this one mass computer system. You know what I mean? That was more for like if there was a serial killer or somebody on the loose or, you know what I mean? Or somebody they were looking for, whatever it was. was something bad, then what they would do is this computer, yeah, it would send it out to all the

states and then to some mainframe computer for the whole state, then they would print it out and distribute it out to all the police departments, sheriff's departments or whatever. Interesting. So, you know, if you never go in the van with that guy, you don't necessarily turn your life around right then and there. No, I would have gotten out and probably never turned myself in, but would have went back to selling drugs and using and doing stupid, you know, and yeah, I wouldn't ever. It's funny how life works and you're putting those predicaments in situations that could change your life.

You're always just like one relationship or connection away from a major change. Yeah. So I guess, you know, now the million dollar question is how do you go from, you know, this criminal that was technically on the run at the time to law enforcement? So how what we didn't get to talk about was my dad, so my, when I got in trouble and went to Juvenile Hall, and I was like 14 years old or however old I was, my mom sent me to my dad's in the summertime. And she was like, so he could straighten me out. And I didn't know about it until she was like, by the way, you're going to your dad's in Ohio. I'm like, what?

I was like, I don't want to go to Ohio. There's a bunch of hillbillies and shit there. And I'm not all about that. I had never been there. So I didn't, you know, no, I just heard about, I'm like, I'm not trying to go there. She's like, you're going. And your dad, you know, for two months, you know, for the summer. And then you can come back.

And I'm like, okay, you know, go to school. And I'm like, okay. So I had met people. So I had a stepbrother that I didn't know of that my dad was raising two kids. And he had, you know, you know. when he left he had this woman in her kids and we never knew it so i had a stepbrother was a year younger than me so he's like introduces me to all these people when i'm there it's like a celebrity back then you're from california you know what i mean you're in this

like smaller town in ohio you know they kind of look at you especially like the girls you know like it's a celebrity type thing kind of you know what i mean and uh so i got to meet some people So when I left and I can't, when I went there, after all that happened, one of my friends's uncle was the sheriff for that county I lived in. And it wasn't very long like after I was there that he said my uncle wants to talk to you. I'm like, the sheriff? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, well, for what? What, what, you know, so then my mind's like going a thousand miles and I don't think it has to do with.

But then I'm like, why would he tell him to just come? He wants to talk to me. So we meet at this office that wasn't connected to the sheriff's office where it was in the, I don't know how to explain it. It's in a parking lot there by the sheriff's office. And that's where I'm to meet him at. And I go to meet him. And he said, I've heard about you.

And me being from California, Ohio's a lot. They're about, I would say behind like three years in just about everything. He said, you know, my friend had told him everything, you know, he didn't tell him everything about me, but because I didn't, he didn't know, like I went to prison or, you know, but he knew I've been in jail and I ran the streets and stuff like that and about the drugs. So he offers me a job working undercover because of the street smarts. He has nobody because, you know, it's not a huge town or, you know, county, it's a smaller county. and I'm from California so I could play the role of I got money, you know what I mean?

I'm looking, and I know some people but not everybody knows me, you know what I mean? That's that small mentality, small town mentality, you know, where everyone knows everybody. Well, they don't really know me other than he coming there during the summertime. So that's how I ended up getting started.

And I worked under cover, but I was only to report to him and one other person that I think it was his chief deputy or captain that no one else knew and I went through the academy like he they had their own back then they used to have their own academy

through the sheriff's department like a lot of them used to do that so you didn't have to go to college and go to the academy or wherever to get your certificate you just could work and then part time you just go a couple hours you know three times a week and, you know, get your certificate, your Opada certificate, your Peace Officer.

When he pitches this to you, what are your first thoughts? Are you into it? Or you're like, no, no, no? I was, like, just blown away at first, like, that he was even saying that. Like, I was like, and I never thought in a million years, you know, because then people's like, oh, you're a rat, you know, and I'm like, because you're working undercover. And, you know, I like the idea of actually, I was like, you know, maybe it would be cool, you know. Because I didn't know what I was going to do, like, where I was, I came to Ohio just to get away from California. But I didn't know what I was going to do.

And it sounded interesting. I'm like, well, yeah, I could do that. And I just thought it was going to be a, he just wanted me to do this for a short time, you know what I mean? And whatever. But then it ended up being more, more into it. Where gambling, underground gambling houses, you know, that they had, like, you know, in the back of a restaurant or whatever. and I had to go in there and play that role and then of course the drug role.

So were you a full-blown cop? Like were you deputized? Yeah, I was deputized at first. Like, he deputized me first. Like I was a special deputy until I got that certificate, which is the Ohio Peace Officer certificate and training in Opada.

What about a gun? Yeah, I had a gun. You were allowed to use a gun as a felon. Yeah. How? It was the depart. Okay. So he runs my record.

What records are you going to run? How can you run a record when you don't have computers? You know what I mean? They have one, maybe they have one computer that can do certain checks, but there's not computers back then. Just like I said, one main frame computer in each. So nothing comes back. But I had already told them, I explained to them that, like, look, I got locked up

but this is what happened. He's like, oh, that's all right. You know what I mean? He's like, I really trust you. And I think you'll be a good, you know, you'll do a lot of good. But isn't it like a federal offense? It is, but I'll tell you how the craziest thing is. Today, I walk into the gun shop, try to buy a gun.

You know, they tell you, I don't know how it is here, but where I'm at, you get, you felt your paperwork, and then they get on the phone, they could call your information in that you put down, and they come back with a yes, and then they'll sell you the gun right then, a no, or a there's an in-between thing, which I forget what it's called.

And it's because something pops up, but they don't have enough information. So to this day, it still pops. I cannot walk in there, and I've called the FBI. I've tried to get this straightened out. Like, why can't I buy a gun in the gun store? But yet I got a department issue weapon on my side right here.

You know, I told the FBI that. And they were laughing. They thought it was funny. And I'm like, no, for real, I'm being serious. And I'm trying to get this straightened up, you know. And so, yeah, to this day, still can't walk into a gun store and buy a gun. So, but you click the box that you're a felon whenever you're asked that. Oh, you don't click the box.

No, I don't remember how, well, I might have, I don't know. Do you have a felony on your record? Yeah. So why wouldn't you check the box? It's right here. Why wouldn't you check the box then if you're asked, do you have a felony? That I must have. I don't, I'm trying to think when I fill out the paper if you,

because it's a felony to not put your felon. Yeah. But the stipulations are like you have to have, if you have any violent crime or drugs was one of them, right? So that was another one that will disqualify you from getting a firearm. I didn't have any. I had receiving stolen property. So how do I, because the other charges got dismissed,

the drug charges got dismissed. So I had no drug charges. But when you pull my FBI rap sheet, run me through NCIC. This June, the world comes to Los Angeles. Kick off FIFA World Cup 2026 at the FIFA fan festival at the iconic Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Watch matches live on Giant Scream. Feel every goal with thousands of fans. And celebrate with music, culture, and flavors from around the world.

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They literally issued you. I know like I was watching a TikTok the other day. Like there are like if you're a felon, you can get like a waiver or some type of something permission to carry a, you get your rights restored in that sense for law enforcement or for the military. So maybe it goes under that. I don't know. I've never heard of that.

Yeah. I didn't know. Interesting. Yeah. So give us a good undercover story from you that you worked undercover and you did a bust. A funny one or just a good one? Anyone? Anyone to give us your best one?

I think the best one was probably, well, the thing is, is I was never involved in the actual bust. Because if I did, then I would blow my cover and then I could never be used again. Probably. So walk us like through the process, yeah, what would happen while telling the story? Okay, so, like, I knew who was selling and who had big quantities of, and who was not selling. So I would party, like, drinking wise. The hardest thing is, so I go to this one guy's house and everybody's always over there, partying. And this guy's moving a lot of stuff.

Coke. He's moving. It was called cranked bag of meth, but it was crank. And he was selling acid and, like, he had everything. It was like a one-stop shop. And so I would buy a lot of big quantity. from him. But I had this I rock Z and I was like I came from California and they knew my stepbrother. So I kind of was like they thought I was just, I had a lot of money and I didn't. I had no money,

really, you know, but I was getting the money from the department. And so I go in there and I had been going over there and buying off of him. I had to do so many buys before it could actually be, you know, a good because I had to be wired up, you know what I mean? And so I go in there and my stepbrother's in there, partying. And I'm like, oh, fuck. Because this is supposed to be like the, okay, I'm going to go in there. I'm going to buy them walking out. And this dude's getting hit as soon as I walk out the door type thing.

And it, it was a buildup case because they wanted to build it up for, you know, when he had a big quantity of driving. drugs. My stepbrother's in there, partying with them. And I'm like trying to get my stepbrother to come with me. I'm like, hey, you know, come on, man, let's go, you know, let's go. And he's like, I, you know, I can't. I can't go. I'm going to stay here, man. I'm going to party with my friends, you know, and I'm like, come on, man, let's go. So I had to leave. I had bought some, I had bought acid, and then I bought Coke, but a bunch of Coke. And then I leave. And then I leave. And then I tell him, I'm like, look, my stepbrother's in there.

And I tell him his name, you know what I mean? I was like, he's not a bad kid. He's just, you know, he needs, you know, some help. And so they go and then they bust them. My stepbrother gets arrested, but they did let him go. But trying not to do drugs and letting them know that it's all business, because they'll try every time, like, try. it out, man.

And I used to carry it around this straw and I put Vaseline in it. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. So you take, so I had this little metal straw and then I took Vaseline and you take Vaseline and a Q-tip and put Vaseline inside of it. So then when you, so if you act like you're doing it, it gets stuck to the Vaseline. Oh, wow. So they'd be like, come on, man, try it, man. I always try to be like, look, I'm in a hurry.

I got business to do, you know what I mean? I got people waiting. But if I had to do it, which I did have to do it a couple times, that's how I did it. I pull out my own straw, like my own little kid act, like I have my own little kit, you know. I pull out my straw and I just, you know, like that. And, you know, and then once you go and then after that, go to the bathroom and then blow out any, if any residual, you know, any residual that doesn't get caught up in the Vaseline. What a genius play.

So are you being known as a buyer or a seller? buyer and seller So both, depending on what the mission was Yeah, whatever the mission was And would the sheriff's department send you to who you need a link with? Sometimes they left it up to me But yeah, most of the time they would have who they wanted me to go to Or go check out this person or this place

Like I said, gambling halls, they would have gambling, illegal gambling And the sheriff at that time, he retired, and when he retired, I left How long did you do this? How many years? Just like two years. It was about two years, two and a half years. So what are you like mid-20s now? Yeah.

Wow. Incredible. How many bus do you think you did? Probably 25 maybe. Wow. This wouldn't have worked in like a major city police department. That's what I've learned. Like the more I go into these county jails and sheriff's departments, they have so much free reign.

Whether they're an elected official or appointed, they do whatever they want. You know, they have a lot of power in that sense. If you were to go into like the Danbury Police Department right now and apply as a felon, it's not happening. Yeah, it's not going to happen. Exactly. They have like, it's all political. And what's crazy is like, so the sheriff that he retired, okay, and like, like, he went through a thing where the FBI was looking at him for mob ties. And it was during an election time.

and the FBI was looking at him and they're investigating him and then he ended up just retiring. A lot of dirty sheriffs in Ohio. Yeah. So the sheriff that takes over, which I didn't care for him. That's why he was friends with him but I didn't like him. So when he takes over, he ends up later on, he goes to prison for eight years. He gets arrested. He gets charged.

I think it was like four of the uppers, the chief deputy maybe. the captain, the couple lieutenants. There's four of them. They all took plea deals. To felonies, though. So they got paper. They got put on probation and paid fines and lost their job and lost their certificates so they can never be a cop again.

He took it to the box because he was very arrogant. His wife got arrested too. And then he ended up getting eight. I think it was eight years. Wow. So what do you do with your life after that? So in between that time. frame. I was into computers when they first Windows 3.1. Like that's when it was. And dial up was the,

you know, that was what you had was dial up for your internet. So if you wanted to load a page, you're sitting there for like 30 minutes waiting for one picture to load on the page, you know. But so I opened, I started working back in like I had done construction when I was young, like when I got kicked out of school. I got kicked. out of the continuation school. I had worked construction with my cousin. So I went, I was working construction jobs. I worked for a machine shop and then I opened up a little computer shop for $150 a month. There was a barber shop and then there used to be an insurance agent place and I turned it into my computer shop. Wow. And I was just doing like repairs or custom builds and stuff like that.

but I was working a full-time job, too, on top of that. And that was my first marriage. Yeah, I was my first marriage. And she didn't want nothing to do with it. So, and that takes a toll on it, too, because I've been married or I've been divorced, married and divorced twice. And then after that, I'm like, I'm never getting married again. But, yeah, so after that, I got into corrections. So, and that was probably.

four years later, I get into corrections, the sheriff that I used to work for. He's working in the, he's, I forget what he was at the prison. He was in charge of something. He was pretty big. And so I get into the corrections.

I work corrections for six years. I was a corrections officer. Then I got into administration where I was doing classification and had my own office. I didn't really have to deal with inmates as on a corrections officer's level. Like a case manager type of person? Kind of, yeah.

I was doing classifications of like I'd go through people's, you know, history points. If, you know, where they're going to be, what classification are going to be minimum, medium, you know, for that facility. Or they got to be moved to another facility. And then while I was working. working there, I got told about a probation officer job, felony probation. And so I applied for that job. And out of like 100 people, and you got to have a degree to be a probation officer. They want you to have a bachelor's degree.

I had no degree. You know, only thing I had was GED. That was it. I had nothing else. I had no nothing. And it was my experience. from working for sheriff, working in the corrections. They use my experience, all those years of experience in lieu of a bachelor's degree.

So out of like 100 applicants, it was down to me and another guy, and there was a juvenile probation officer position available. And I was like, I'm not working for juvenile. I don't want to mess with juveniles. You know what I mean? It's a totally different ballgame. So I ended up, let's see, yeah, he ended up, they hired me, he ended up taking that probation officer job for juvenile. So I get hired on a felony probation.

Wow, and that's what you do now? No, no, no. I'm retired now. Okay. How many years did you do felony probation for you? I did it for roughly six years. Ohio is so interesting. Like we just had, when we were talking about Michael Justice on the show, who became a probation officer and the

correctional officer before that. They hire felons to work in these positions, which I think is great because that's real actual experience and I feel like that's how you can change the system. But wow. Yeah. And when I left probation, it was just, there's a lot of corruption. I'm going to tell you that, especially in Ohio, as you probably already know, there's a lot of, like I told you about what happened to the sheriff, we had a judge.

He got sent to federal, I think it was 17 years in federal prison, and they dropped it down to 13 years for having a couple guys that were criminals that used to go in front of him all the time. He had him sit his house on fire that he bought his house to rehab, and it was on a lake. It was a big house worth a lot of money and had him burn it, burn the house down for the insurance money. And he was the judge.

He was one of the judges in the county. Crazy. Yeah. So I do probation There was some corrupt shit I just I didn't Trust anybody I worked with there Oh give us a corruption story

In probation in the actual department yeah Well I got a couple but I'll tell you one about the judge So I've got this guy on probation And every year you get your annual review You know what I mean where the chief goes through everything you know, all your job and what you've done. And I always got 100% every year. Always did my job and everything was good.

And I got this guy on paper. He's an older guy. And he's just won't get with the program. Like he won't do none of his shit. And he always played. So he's on there for selling crack. And the people that, and there was two guys coming from Columbus. Ohio, or that came down there to sell.

He let them sell crack out of his house to give, and he would smoke crack and they'd give him whatever he wanted. So he gets busted. So anyways, that's what he's on for. He's an older guy, but he tries to play dumb. He can't read or write. He's just a poor old man. And then he's pulling all these scams and shit.

Like he bought this junkyard off this guy, and he's on Social Security. And I was like, how in the hell do you? But he's supposed to tell me, you know? so like he wasn't doing his classes like for GED so I kept having to sanction him and I'd take him to jail and sat him in there for 10 days or whatever I had to do because he didn't have a drug problem like he had already been over that and I just I got you have to do progressive discipline so you know you got a show where okay he's violated unless they cop another charge if they get another charge that's totally different to send him back to prison so

I'm progressive discipline. I file for a revocation to have him revoked and sent back to prison to do the rest of his time. You got to send that to the prosecutor, and the prosecutor has to okay that. He looks over all your paperwork and your report and then go from there. Well, my boss comes over to me, and he's like, hey, you got court on Thursday. And I have a schedule when I got to be in court, like when I have revocation hearings or, you know, whatever. for whatever reason, when I have to be in court upstairs.

And I'm like, I don't have nothing Thursday. He's like, no, this is a personal matter. I go, what do you mean? It's a personal matter. And he's like, I'll talk to you about it later. I'm like, okay. And this was like three days before, you know,

so this was like on a Monday or Tuesday, he tells me, I think it was Tuesday. I got to be on court on Thursday, which is not unusual to go to court, you know, on like that sometimes. you know, for somebody. But I'm like, okay. And then I get up there and I kind of got like blackballed like or, you know,

however you want to say it. Like I didn't know what was going on. So the guy that I was trying to revoke gets an attorney takes me to court and says I'm mean, too mean, and that I've brought back all these childhood memories of abuse. And it's messed him up mentally, me, that I. did all this to him and and they need to take change his terms of probation and take me off his caseload. I'm like, are you, I have never heard of this ever. So they was trying to get his terms or get released is what he was trying to get doing. But what happened was they take him off my

caseload. I'm like, all right, you're fucking kidding me. How stupid is that? Like, I'm doing my job and you're going to take him off my caseload and he should be in prison. but okay, whatever, you know. So the chief takes him, then he gives them to my partner, like a month later, so I'm with them. Because we used to work on the street all the time. And we went to his house, and he'd always be like, can he stay outside? And I said, no, I'm not staying outside.

Because he died, he was getting away with, you know, because I wasn't his PO, but the thing is, is that any probation officer can approach you at any time they want. and but I was always with him he was on my partner's caseload and it was six or nine months later he raped his granddaughter

raped his niece wow why do you think that they were you know normally the corruption's flip-flopped where it's against the person like the individual on probation why do you think in this case it was against you

and not him why were they letting him out like that. I don't know. I mean, this judge, he was a new judge, but he was well known because he was the best defense attorney in that county before he became judge. And the only way, the reason he got, he didn't get voted in. He got appointed because the judge before him, the common police court judge, he retired, but he told the governor, he was friends with the governor and everybody, he said, because he had been on there for years on the bench. He said, basically, I'm going to leave. This is the story I don't know because I wasn't there. Just hearsay, but that he told him the governor to appoint him as the judge and then he was going to retire.

And that's exactly what happened. He'd never been a judge. So all these cases that he was defending because he was like the number one defense attorney, had to get all sent over to the other judge for conflict of interest. Anyone he ever represented, which was majority of that county, you know. And then he would take, they'd have to switch caseloads. You know, it was crazy. Wow.

But why they did it? Exactly. They did it and then look at what happens. You know, now two victims are ruined for the rest of their life because of, you know, something like that that I was trying to get him sent back to prison. And he wasn't a chomo then. You know, but I had a gut feeling always along. Something just wasn't right with this guy.

But he was always like a snake, man. He was always slithering through. and that's why, like, I kept on his ass all the time. There's certain people, you know, that do what they're supposed to do, and they work and pay their fines, and you don't have to worry about them. But there's other ones, because I was intensive. I ended up being one of the intensive officers,

where you get the worst of the worst, and you've got to be on them all the time. And, you know what I mean? It gets, it's hard. And you've got to pick and choose, like, who's, like, he's doing better and he's getting, you know, doing what he's supposed to be. So I don't have to worry about him now. You know, if it was over here.

but yeah and that's not like the first time so a girl i was dating i started dating her i went i was uh i was on my motorcycle i was outriding my motorcycle and i pulled up at my friend's house it's a it's a female and um i'm just out riding and this girl opens the door and she looked familiar and i'm like man she's hot you know and she's like yeah she's in the shower right now my friend She's like, she's in the shower right now. But you can come in and hang out. I'm like, okay. So her and I start chopping it up and talking.

And then my friend comes out. She's like, it's my birthday. We're going to go to the bar, you know. You got to go with us. I said, well, I'm riding my motorcycle. I didn't take on my bike, you know. And so they followed me and then picked me up. And then we went to the bar.

Well, I met this girl. And we're talking this whole time, just sitting there having a couple beer drinking, talking. And I end up, we end up start dating. Two months later, she's in jail. She got, she's on probation. Not in, I'm in common police courts, so I'm felony.

She's on misdemeanor probation. And I didn't know anything about it at the time. But I'm like, so I went to the jail, not as, like, I can walk into the jail on my job, you know what I mean? anytime I needed to see anybody. I didn't have to like get schedule anything. I could just go in there and be like,

I'm going here to talk to such and such, you know what I mean, and pull them out or whatever. If I needed to pull them out or just tell them, you know, but I could do that at any time. I didn't do any of that stuff. I actually went on visiting day, you know, the visiting time,

find out what the hell's going on? Because I knew nothing about it. So I get, so a couple deputies that, know me well there was one in particular tells on me which I don't know what he was telling on

because I honestly didn't at this point didn't know what was going on and she ended up she had a drug habit I didn't know about that either I didn't know any of this stuff because you know as far as I knew like we dated and I didn't ever see anything out of the

ordinary or anything so I get caught up in a freaking whole mess like because I'm dating. This is my own personal life. It has nothing to do with my work. I get called in the office.

My boss is like, he slides his paper over. He doesn't even tell me. He just slides this paper over, signed by the judges. And it says that you're going to, I have to hand in my badge, gun, all my stuff, my ID,

and I'm on administrative leave for an investigation. internal investigation because I was dating this girl. I'm like, are you shit in me? Like he, like he, the chief could have handled it himself. He could have honestly like been an internal thing. I'd never been written up or anything. I ever been in any trouble. But the female officers that worked there knew her and hated her.

They were like jealous of her. They just, like she never did anything. She wasn't on felony probation. So, and I didn't, like I said, I didn't find out for two months that she She was on misdemeanor probation. So anyways, I'm under investigation now. And I get put on administrative leave for two months, which is paid leave, but I'm not allowed to talk to anybody that I work with. Anybody, my roommate's a deputy sheriff, you know what I mean, at this point, you know, and my best friend, my partner is one of my best friends.

He's like, fuck that. I'm going to talk to you anyways, you know what I mean? so we still stayed in touch, you know what I mean? But so yeah, it goes, and I get an attorney all over this. So when my boss gave me that stuff, I went back over to my office. I grabbed the handbook, the employee handbook, and I slapped it on his death. I went in and slammed his door shut and I slapped it on his desk. I said, show me where I did anything wrong because I know what's in the handbook.

It says you can't date somebody that you have on probation or, you know what I mean? anybody like a felon. Well, she wasn't a felon. She was a misdemeanor. And I didn't know. I said, what was I supposed to do? Like, say, hey, I need to run your eye. Oh, nice to meet you. Hey, you got your driver's license.

I got to run your background before I can start talking to you. You've probably heard of filmed for IMAX. But what does it mean? It means some of the world's biggest filmmakers partner with IMAX on everything from cameras to sound. to ensure audiences fully experience their vision on the biggest screen possible. When it's filmed for IMAX, the only way to experience the movie as the director intended is in IMAX.

The Mandalorian and Grogu is filmed for IMAX. Buy your tickets now at IMAX.com. You know what I mean? That was bullshit. But yeah, I got in trouble for that. Meanwhile, you're a felon. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, that was crazy.

How old were you when you retired? It was eight years, eight years ago. I took a medical retirement. So what do you do now? Like what's a day to day? Day to day now is I got kids and taking care of my kids, trying to get my YouTube, you know, going. And I try to help people as much as I can too.

I like to help people. Advice-wise, like when it comes to, you know, criminal or, Like my channel has a lot like when I've done I don't I don't have a lot of subscribers yet but it's getting better and I'm getting like people that are you know asking me questions about things and I'm trying to help them out you know the best I can as far as like you know I think I had somebody asked me yesterday last night I was I did a quick live and they were talking about I'm about to pay money so I can get off of doing this or that and I'm like and I ran I ran I They said, what's the extradition laws from different states? And I'm like, oh, so you ran and you're on paper. I say, dude, you got to handle your business because it's never going to go away. You know what I mean? I'm trying to give back to what, like, how I, you know, turned to my life

and give advice that I should have listened to or should have done. But mine worked out in the best in my favor. What's the best piece of advice you wish you got when you were, teenager before you ever got arrested. Because I've been told so many times, like, you know, you got to, don't do this, don't do this, don't do that. And it took until I stopped, talked with that one guy for me to turn my life around. I mean, I honestly don't know.

At that point, if there was any advice as a teenager, but definitely I never had anybody that was like my age or, say, close to my age that sat down with me or talked. talked to me or mentored me and said, hey, look, I've been through all, this is what all I've been through. I'd never had that, you know what I mean? I never had anybody sit down with me. Like, I had my cousin. Yeah, he'd been in and out of jail and prison too, but he never, he wasn't a role model.

Like, he didn't sit down with me and be like, you know, don't be doing that, you know, because this is what's going to happen to you, you know. And I think that means a lot. It's when somebody cares to listen and offer it. any kind of advice, you know. And overcoming addiction like I did myself, I've been 33 years clean from drugs.

I've been 14 years clean from alcohol. And that was a, and I never went to no counseling or no 12-step program. I just did it on my own. I mean, some people it takes, the way I look at is everyone's different and everyone's a different person.

So different angles. And when you try to force someone to go to like A&A meetings or whatever, that might work for them or like me, I didn't like that. Or if you send them one-on-one counseling, maybe that'll work. Maybe if they just go to jail or prison, maybe that works. But normally that doesn't work. You know what I mean? But I don't know. Do you ever, when you were doing the undercover bus, do you ever feel bad that, that,

you're kind of getting people into trouble that were in your shoes before. Yeah. And a lot of these individuals have addiction issues themselves, which is something you were kind of borderline as a kid, and you saw it in your dad too. So did you feel bad at all? And do you ever think about that to this day? I do.

And do you also feel like maybe it's like a necessary evil that you had to do that to help them change their life too? I kind of felt like when I got myself clean or myself together, Like you said, I feel like that was in a way helping them, I guess. You know what I mean? Because it's something like I said that got sprung on me. I didn't really think about it. Then I was like, well, maybe it will be okay.

But like you said, I'll tell you, there's a guy that when I was in corrections I dealt with. and he was a big time crack dealer drug dealer and we became you know we had mutual respect he was a good good dude i seen him on the outside and then when i was a probation he we went to his he wasn't on my caseload he was on someone else's caseload and dude we we busted him with two big rocks crack and um he had just got delivered to his house right when we should popped in at night we we showed up there and it was all bad and then he went to prison got back out again so he'd been to prison like three times he was still cool with me man he came up and he was like i appreciate what you did the last time he's like you know i wish you would have just took the money because

i found like it's like eight or ten thousand dollars in cash in his closet it's like i wish you did just took the money and everything and just walked out you know left well i got three other officers there but i'm not dirty like that anyway i mean i'm not gonna lie i was my palms are sweaty and I was sweating like because you know that goes to your head like oh can I do this you know what I mean and get away with it but I never did it you know what I mean but he had respect for me because of what that got him on the street and narrow after that he finally it took you know him like he'd grown up the same way like he'd grown up selling drugs doing drugs and been to prison and all his relatives have been in and out of prison.

But he told me this last time, you know, that that really helped him. And so we talk when we still talk to this day. Yeah, there's definitely a powerful lesson in that. And I'll leave that for the audience to kind of decipher what that is. But it's very powerful. Charlie, thank you very much for making the trip out here

to sit with me today. Hopefully some of my followers, you know, check out your channel. Check out all those stories because you've lived such a, you know, multi-faced life. Definitely, you know, one of the few people I've gotten to talk to that have experienced all sides, like from probation, corrections, police, and the criminal side. Yeah, and we didn't even touch base on an investigator. I was an investigator.

So, yeah, check out the channel. Because I started doing the first 48 series of some of the homicide cases. I just started doing it. on my channel about when I was an investigator for the major crimes unit. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, you could go here and sit for hours. Oh, I know. To share a person's story.

And I feel like my job is to kind of like put the overall picture of the story together so people take interest into what that person has to say. I feel like that's kind of like my role. You make it like this documentary. Like in a documentary, you can't get into every avenue of that story. But you give the big picture and you're like, oh, this is interesting. Let me search into that. So that's my goal with like these episodes and bringing people on.

Because so many people like they have a merch line or they have a book or they have a YouTube channel or they have a podcast. They always have something that they want to bring and get out there. So I feel like it's my job to piece that together and then help promote them in that manner. So hopefully people come over to your channel and see those types of stories. Yeah, me too. I appreciate it. Yeah, because like I said, I'm doing my little series there and hopefully that would catch some interest. But I'm always there. My contact info is on my description page. Anyone can reach out at any time. I'm always there to talk. If you just need someone to talk, you need advice. I'm always trying to help. And we'll have that all in the description of this episode too. And if you ever need any help, please reach out. And, you know, any tips, pointers, anything like that. We're always here. All right. Awesome, man. Safe Travel.

was back to Ohio. All right. Thank you soon. Ian, I appreciate it.