Locked In with Ian Bick - Ex-Nurse Reveals How She Faked 4,000+ Vaccine Records and Raked in $1 Million | Julie DeVuono

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

Julie DeVuono, a former nurse, made headlines for orchestrating one of the biggest vaccine fraud schemes in recent history. In this episode, she reveals how she faked over 4,000 vaccine records, pocketing more than $1 million in the process. From manipulating medical records to evading authorities, Julie takes us inside the shocking operation that led to her downfall. What motivated her? How did she get away with it for so long? And what are the consequences of her actions? Don’t miss this eye-opening conversation about fraud, ethics, and the dark side of the healthcare industry. #ExNurse #VaccineFraud #FakedRecords #MillionDollarScam #HealthcareScandal #MedicalFraud #NurseScandal #FraudulentVaccines Thank you to FACTOR for sponsoring this episode: Visit https:/factormeals.com/lockedin50off to get %50 off your order PLUS free shipping! Connect with Julie DeVuono: X: https://x.com/redpillkidoctor?s=21 Support her here: HTTPS://givesendgo.com/wildchildwell Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Overcoming the Stigma of Being a Felon 00:08:22 Frontline Workers During COVID-19 00:17:00 Breaking the Law for Moral Reasons 00:25:28 Transitioning from Boutique Practice to Vaccine Clinic 00:33:28 Changes in COVID Vaccine Storage Recommendations 00:41:31 The Challenges of Running a Medical Practice During COVID-19 00:50:01 Navigating Rolling Mandates 00:57:44 Unexpected Arrest 01:05:41 Unexpected Home Search and Arrest 01:14:12 Jail Experience and Unexpected Support 01:22:27 The Fight for Bodily Autonomy 01:30:11 Experiencing Life with an Ankle Monitor 01:37:37 Wrongful Arrest Due to Computer Error 01:45:25 Mistaken Release: Lost in the System 01:53:11 Navigating a Criminal Case: From Plea Deal to Probation 02:01:04 Reflections on Losing My License in New York Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And thanks to your husband for connecting us and watching the show. He's a fan. We're not really locked in, are we? No, there is a prison cell I built upstairs. Okay. For photo ops? We do like skits.

I'll show you it after. It's got the real prison toilet and the whole everything. After 48 hours, in a cell, 24 in solitary, I don't need to spend any more time in a cell. Yeah, and I'm sure the audience that's watching on YouTube and Spotify, they're going to be like, how did this woman end up going to prison? You could be a bit like someone's mom, you know? I am someone's mom. I know, but like, you're just sitting a, I don't know, so many of the guests that

come on, you look at them and you're like, how do they go to prison? I guess that's what people say about me, though, too. It's probably the most common thing that I've heard from people. and, you know, they're like, because, I mean, part of being a felon is now you have this scarlet letter on your chest or on your forehead. And for the rest of your life, you're going to have that label and people are going to assume things about you based on that label. You're not trustworthy. Maybe you're dangerous, et cetera, et cetera. And that's why I've tried to make a point of having people get to know me first as a person. before I share that part of my, you know, my identity with them.

And the good thing is most of the time once people get to know me as a person, when they do find out, they're shocked. And even the people who I meet coming into it, like my probation officer or in the, they very quickly start to be like, yeah, yeah, it's like this disconnection. like, well, you're not who this identity says you are. I've been working a lot in the last year in voter registration. And one of the women that I've been working with quite a bit, it's kind of funny, actually. She was like, hey, we're doing a big voter registration drive at this gun show that's going on.

And I really need help. I really need volunteers. And I'm short because we've got, you know, we've got four different county fairs going on. everybody spread thin. I really need people. And she asked me like three separate times, hey, can you come and help me at this show? And every time I would say, no, sorry I can't.

And she's like, why? Felon. Can't go on probation currently. Can't go to a gun show. And she'd be like, oh, that's right. I keep forgetting. And then like three weeks later, she'd be like, coming back.

Julie, I really need help. but I'm like, can't go to, by the third time, she just got so frustrated herself. She's like, well, I just can't picture you as a felon. And my comeback always is, well, that's part of the problem now. Hey, what's up, everyone? It's Ian Bick, your host of Locked In. And I just want to say thanks for tuning into today's episode. Real quick, if you love what you hear, drop a comment on YouTube or Spotify or

or leave a review on Spotify and Apple. It helps me keep the content coming. and bonus, I actually reply to every single comment. Yep, it's really me, not just some random person that works for me. All right, enough with the shameless plugs. Let's dive into today's crazy episode. But before we get started, I've got to give a huge shout out to Factor for sponsoring the show. Head over to FactorMeals.com slash Locked In 50 off and use code Locked in 50 off

to get a massive 50% off your first box plus free shipping. I'll tell you more about why I'm obsessed with Factor later in the episode. So stick around. Not to get political, but whether or not you think the justice system may be a little overzealous sometimes or maybe it's like more subjective sometimes with what one person. I mean, we just elected a felon to be president. I don't think people look at what that title means anymore with the kind of fear and respect that they used to. to because they are getting to know more and more people in their lives that have become felons for but they're not dangerous and they're not distrustful. They're just average everyday

people. So I'm trying to use my story to get the message to people that we really need to really rework our justice system, maybe get some more objectivity in it, maybe clean it up a little bit, because if you don't think that you could someday be sitting in this chair with this label on you, look, five years ago, I never in a million years thought I would be either. You know, I always tell people, I was a beige-boring pediatric nurse, middle-class soccer mom, married to a cop. If somebody had told me in five years you'd be a felon, I would, you know, there's no way. But I think we've seen that, you know, in some parts of this country, more, you know, more than others, it doesn't take much. Once, you know, they decide that they want to, you know, target you, it can happen.

I guess that's the mess that I'm trying to get. It's like, don't think it couldn't happen to you. Yeah, it doesn't discriminate. Anyone could be affected by it. I feel like everybody has their line in the sand that they think they would. would never, they think they would never cross it. And then I think what's happening is that line is being pushed and pushed. So, you know, stepping outside of the law to keep your job, to keep a roof over your head, to keep yourself financially stable when you have children,

to avoid a medical intervention that you believe, whether you're, whether it's right or wrong, you truly believe it could be dangerous? How much are you willing to give up to stay on the right side of the law? And I feel like in some parts of the country, that line is being pushed further and further, and more and more people are having to find themselves stepping over it. And that's kind of what I feel like happened to me. You know, I'd never even had a speeding ticket or, you know, I mean, I'm one of those people that had always had probably an unhealthy fear of authority.

Like I was the kid that, you know, if the teacher even just used a stern voice or if my parents just, they never even had to yell at me, they just, well, we're very disappointed. You know, I'm the one who's like drives no more than like five over the speed limit, even if it didn't, I just have always had an obsessively healthy respect for the law and being married to a cop, reinforce that. but then I just started seeing, especially during COVID, they were just pushing and pushing and pushing. And at a certain point, it was just like, I can't take this anymore. And I think part of it is I'm more of an emotional decision maker. You know, I don't make decisions as rationally as I should.

I kind of make them with my heart. Like, you remember Mr. Rogers' neighborhood growing up? Yeah. And he would always say look for the helpers if you're lost. I always wanted to be one of the helpers. Like, what do you want to be when you grow up? I just want to be one of the helpers. I want to be one of those grownups that kids can look to for help.

And people can look to for help. So sometimes I think when I was presented with someone in front of me that just needed help, I was just, my instinct was just to help and not step back and think rationally and say, well, what am I really doing here? And then during, you know, working in the medical field in New York during COVID and there was the mask mandates and then there was the shutdowns. And then there was the vaccine mandates. And I was working, you know, I was kind of swimming in this pond where most of the people around me,

most of the people I worked with were essential frontline workers, cops, nurses, firefighters, food delivery people, MTA workers. And we had a very different COVID lockdown experience than most people. And, you know, we weren't at home. baking sourdough bread on Zoom calls. We were getting up every morning, going out the door, going to work, doing our jobs, knowing that we were intentionally going out and getting exposed to COVID. And after a year and a half of that, most of us had been doing, we've been going out every

day getting exposed to COVID for a year and a half. Most of us had COVID once or twice. And so I think that became less scary. and then all of a sudden the mandates came down where everybody, you know, you have to get this vaccine or you lose your job. And these weren't just like, okay, I'll lose my job, I'll get another job. These were careers. These were callings. These are livelihoods.

You know, 10 years as a firefighter, 15 years as a cop, 18 years as a nurse. You went from being the heroes to now all of a sudden, well, you have to get this shot or you're going to lose. everything. You're going to lose your pension. You're going to lose your livelihood. You're going to lose your health benefits. You're going to. And I think that it would have been more tolerable if we had been given more time to digest the decision to say, okay, you want us to get this vaccine. Okay. Give us some time. But it was all two weeks. You've got two weeks to show proof of this vaccine or you're fired. And all of a sudden, it was like just this wave that went through my whole community of us

that were like, well, are we going to, what are you going to do? Well, I don't know. I mean, I've been hearing these things that it might not be safe or did they really do enough research. Have they really tested it long enough? I mean, it seems so quick. and, you know, whether you agree with someone or disagree with about the safety of the vaccine, because it was never really about the safety of the COVID vaccine.

You want to get the COVID vaccine, get the COVID vaccine. And if you're over 60 or you have certain health conditions, you really should get the COVID vaccine. But I feel like to cross that line from the government standpoint to say, no, you have to get this vaccine. and there's no other recourse, that really hit us hard. Like, I don't think most people realize how hard that hit us. And then at the same time, I saw this sort of like two-tier system of privilege, because being a nurse practitioner, I worked with a lot of nurses and, you know, blue-collar people, but I also worked in circles with physicians.

So, you know, the white coats. The white coats as opposed to the blue scrubs. You know, the EMTs and, you know, they were the blue scrubs and the nurses were the blue scrubs. And then you had the doctors that were the white coats. And among the physician class, there was this whole different conversation going on. Because, look, in New York, everybody knew six different people. people that could get them a COVID card. I mean, everybody did. And the going rate for a COVID card was about $500 to $1,000. But if you were a physician, you didn't even have to pay anybody. You could,

you know you could get one. So then all of a sudden, in the physician circles, the conversation was really, are you going to get the vaccine or are you going to get the vaccine? I don't know. What do you think? Well, you know, I think that with my medical history and at my age and my level of exposure, I'm kind of leaning towards getting the vaccine. Really? Well, what do you think of this research article that was written out of Israel about the red flag signals from Iocarditis? Yeah, I don't know that I would want my son in his 20s to get it, but I definitely want my parents. parents to get it. Like, it suddenly became the kind of conversation they were having was the kind of conversations we all should have been able to have. You know, we all should have been able to

make a real, like, serious conversation about, like, the decision. Like, do I get this vaccine or not? Well, what's my risk versus not getting the vaccine? What's my exposure level? I'm working from home. I do everything on Zoom. maybe I'll wait, maybe when they want me back. It became the kind of conversation we all should have had the privilege of being able to think about. And so what I saw was this sort of privilege, like, oh, they've got this privilege to make that decision for themselves. The rest of us don't.

And that's not right. It's just not fair. And that's always been a trigger for me is fairness. like, well, that's not fair that they get to make that decision for themselves. And these other people that I'm friends with and family and, you know, community, they don't. They just have to be told, you know, they're just being told, suck it up, buttercup. And I just really felt that was just so unfair. And the way I describe it is, you know, well, I have this privilege as a medical provider.

and it's not fair that I have this privilege and other people don't. So then my moral, I'd say my moral compass started spinning. And that spinning moral compass, because up until that point in my life, my moral compass was always aligned with the law. Well, you follow the law. That's what a good moral person does. And the morality of that was never questioned. I had never experienced a situation where my moral compass was pointing me one way, which is being one of the helpers.

You know, hey, nurse Julie, I don't want to lose my livelihood. You know, like this one situation, I always say this 220 pounds, six foot two firefighter who's crying because his wife's five months pregnant. She's a nurse. She just quit her job because they don't feel comfortable as a family. with her getting the COVID vaccine while she's pregnant. So now he's the sole source of income. And now he's got two weeks to decide whether or not to get this vaccine

and or his family will lose everything. Their livelihood, their health care, their pension, everything. And he's crying because, you know, he's got to make that decision. And, you know, it's when that, somebody likes that just looks at me and says, hey, can you help me? And I know what he meant. He knew what I meant.

He knew I knew what he meant. And now all of a sudden it's like, you know what? I really could. I'd be breaking the law. But that seemed so abstract. You know, breaking the law versus relieving all of this guy's anxieties about his future and his family's future with just. one quick initial on a card.

I could solve all of, like, this major, massive source of anxiety and problem for him, and it just seems so simple. And I wasn't thinking rationally about that I was breaking the law. I was like, I'm being one of the helpers. And then you multiply that by 10 and then 20. And then I'm like, okay, my moral compass is pointing me one way, and it's not in the same direction as the law. And that's when you just, you know, that's, that's that moment of, I could help these people. And, and I know it's breaking the law, but I don't think the law is fair either.

And, you know, I'm a big history buff. One of my favorite quotes from history is Thomas Jefferson when he said, when a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey, but morally obligated to do so. And, you know, and that was a big part of that. I was feeling like, well, if the law is wrong, then I'm not so wrong in pushing back against it or breaking it. And, you know, when I was younger, I was obsessed with reading stories about the Holocaust and the Underground Railroad. And I don't know why those two things were so, like, I just couldn't get. get enough of it. I was just reading everything I could about it. And I think now the reason I was so interested in that is I was really interested in what it would take for somebody to decide

to break the law to help someone, for example, like would I be one of those people courageous enough to hide a Jewish family in my home knowing that I would be breaking the law and I would be punished for it if I got caught. Would I be strong enough to hide a family on the Underground Railroad if I was living during that time period in American history before the Civil War? Or would I put my own safety and that of my family to the forefront and turn away from helping that person?

And I'm not saying that what I did was on the same level, but it gave me sort of an understanding of what I would do. I've always questioned. I've always wondered, what would I do if I was faced with that? You know, would I have,

would I decide to help that family or would I decide to stay safely on the other side of the law? And I think part of why I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about this is because, you know, the media coverage of my story has been small and local, thank God. But it's all been very one-sided

Oh, you're a grifter, you were just trying to make money, you were being greedy. And, you know, from when you're in this situation, you have a gag order, you're not allowed to tell your side of the story. You're not free to speak freely. So your side of the story doesn't get told. So then people have this image of the situation that's one-sided. And I just wanted a chance to let people know it. It was so much more complicated than that. and it really wasn't coming from a place of greed.

It was really coming from a place of just wanting to help people and realizing that, you know, that was it the right thing to do? Well, it was the illegal thing to do. I still haven't figured out for myself whether or not it was the right thing to do. But it was far more complicated of a decision and an action than what the media portrayed it to be. You know, they, I'm going to say, well, you know, it was all about greed.

You know, you saw a way to make money. I'm like, well, okay, except that the going rate for a COVID card was $1,000 in New York. And I was charging about $200. If it was about greed, I would have charged $1,000. I was charging $200 because in order to do this, I at least was smart enough and level-headed enough to know I need to take in some money because I may need that to cover legal fees in the future. And it all just took off so fast that it went from a couple people here and there.

And then I guess word must have gotten out because one day I came to my office for a regular just day of doing pediatric primary care. And there were like 150, 200 people lined up at my door. and they were all had that look on their face. They were terrified. And they had to have been for them to also make that decision because they were also breaking the law. And I knew what it took for somebody to do that.

Like this was not a simple decision for them either. And they must have been really desperate. So I realized, okay, there's a lot more people that I expected they're going to be. And, you know, a lot of the people I'd ask him, well, if you, if everybody knows so many people to get a COVID card from, why are you coming to me? And they said, because we can't afford a thousand dollars for a COVID card. I can't afford that. I can afford $200 to keep my job, but I can't afford $1,000 to keep my job.

So these were not like, you know, what it came down to is like so many people were like, oh, well, you know, there's got to be somebody that you helped that is now in a position where they. could help you. And then it became this realization that dawned on me, anybody who could really help me now, they weren't going to need my help. They were already in a station in life where they could either they weren't going to be held to get this vaccine or lose your job. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't think I'm explaining it well. Anybody that would be in the position where they could help, me wouldn't have been in the situation where they would have needed my help. So I felt like I was just helping a lot of us that were in a financial middle class situation that couldn't get help elsewhere and didn't want to lose our jobs over it.

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Did you have a secretary or how to? Well, the first thing I said was, well, look, this really isn't how we're going to be doing this. And so what I realized is like I had run a very small practice. It was kind of a boutique practice. I didn't have nurses. I didn't have secretary. Like I, it was just like I met you at the door. I weighed your kid.

I took their vital signs. I took the history. It's not like when you take your kid to the pediatrician now and you see five different people before you get to see the doctor. And then you get to see the doctor for like 10 minutes. So I'd meet them at the door. I didn't overbook. I didn't double book. I booked 30-minute sick visits and one-hour well visits.

I wanted time because I felt that by investing a lot of time, I would get fewer calls. They had my cell phone number. People are like, are you crazy? You're going to give your patients your cell phone number. They're going to be calling you at three in the morning. Like, well, if you spend an hour with your pediatrician every month when your kid's a baby, you're going to not be calling them so late. And if you do need to call me, I know you really need to call me.

Like I know, like, because we'd already gone over everything else. Like, you know, when to worry, when not to worry. So, but, so anyway, I'm kind of getting off track. So I would meet you at the door. I would do the history. I would take their vitals. I would do the exam. If they were getting vaccines, I was the one giving the vaccine.

I was the one putting the band-a. Like, it wasn't like, oh, you're going to see this person. Then you're going to see the nurse and you're going to see the doctor. it was just me. And so I knew that I really didn't have, I wasn't really going to be able to handle this. I had been running this practice for 10 years. So even though I didn't go to business school,

I think I just had a natural business sense that I had done pretty well. I had started a couple of businesses through my life. Some failed, some succeeded. I was always like that entrepreneurial kid that was like selling, you know, I would make pictures. I would draw pictures and then put up a table in front of our driveway and sell pictures for like a dollar. You know, like I was just always trying to do that.

So I think I just had a natural head for business. And I realized, okay, this is, I can't do this. like while I'm seeing kids, people wandering it. This isn't going to work. So, and I was also very much immersed in this community of people who most of them did feel like the vaccine mandates were wrong and they were a terrible violation of our civil rights. And, you know, so I was kind of in that political environment. So I knew people who were even more, not just like-minded, but more extreme than me. Like I was the one who was like, well, look, you know, if you want to get the COVID vaccine, get the COVID vaccine.

And, you know, but it should be your right. So I knew people who were like, this is wrong. This is terrible. So I reached out to a couple of them and said, look, if we're going to do this, I only want to do this at night when my office is closed. So I want to set up a second shift. So I hired a secretary and a nurse. and another nurse practitioner, and they sort of ran the vaccine clinic at night. So I would leave during the – I would come in during the day and see the patients,

pediatric kids. I would come – and then I would leave, and then they would come in, and for, you know, from like three to seven, they would just do COVID vaccines. And are they legit COVID vaccines? Some of them were. And do your staff know that you're giving out fake ones, fake cards? Well, it was the same process until you got in the exam room. And only you were in the exam room.

Well, it wasn't me. I was, I wasn't there at night. It was the people, you know, the nurse that I hired that, you know, would know, would know, okay, this person would come in and we would know from who they were referred by. Like if somebody referred some, hey, I'm sending my brother or somebody would call, hey, I'm sending my brother or somebody would call, hey, I, I need a COVID vaccine, but I don't really want to get a COVID vaccine. Like you kind of, there was a lot of like body language. There's a lot of like subtle language. And you, you kind of just got a really good sense.

Okay. Hey, I heard that, you know, I could get a card here, but I don't really want to get the COVID vaccine. You know, like, so okay. And I'm like, okay, I'll be $200 for that. And, you know, and so that's kind of how we worked it out. It was nobody just walked in off the street unknown. Everybody had to be referred. And is it cash only?

No. Which was probably a mistake. Because I thought you weren't allowed to charge for COVID vaccines back then anyways. Well, what we were doing is I had already had been doing in my practice where because it was an integrated practice, I had done a lot with vaccine detoxing products like, you know, homeopathic vaccine detox products and herbal vaccine detox products. So we weren't charging for the card. We were charging, you know, or we weren't charging for the vaccine. We were charging for the detox. So, you know, people say, oh, well, I just want a COVID vaccine.

Okay. Oh, I want the detox. Oh, okay. So we kind of knew. So now people that were coming in legitimately, they weren't being charged for it. Right. Like if they didn't want the detox. If they were just asking for the shot.

Yeah. Okay. And now the cards. Does the government mail you those cards? How did that work? Yeah. Well, I had gotten an email one day. And this is kind of funny because you go from, okay, only place you can get these vaccines are in pharmacies.

Because, you know, and I remember saying, well, as a regular doctor's office, are we going to be offering these vaccines? No, because these need to be in super. Remember at a time early? I don't know if you're, then they'd say, well, the COVID vaccines have to be kept in this like ultra super cold refrigeration system. They had to be kept at like this really, really low temperature. And so for a while they're like, well, we can only offer these in like university settings like or pharmacies because they have the high tech refrigeration systems. So I'm like, okay, it's very unlike. likely that these are going to trickle down to doctor's offices.

And then all of a sudden I got an email saying, where, you know, when they had approved it for children, 12 and up, now all of a sudden they're like, oh, we're looking for pediatric office to, do you want to be a COVID vaccination site? And I remember because I email them out and I said, well, but I thought they had to be kept in these like really high-tech refrigeration systems. I can't afford a $7,000 a refrigerator for the COVID vaccine. Oh, no, we found out that they can be kept in a regular fridge. I'm like, really?

You found all that out in like three weeks? Like, wow, that was a quick research study. Like, all of a sudden, the recommendations about the vaccine and the rules would change. And I said, well, what they found was what I was told, you know, what they told me is they, well, parents are willing to go to the pharmacy to get vaccines for themselves. But we're really not making inroads with getting them to bring their kids to like the pharmacy to get a vaccine. And we think that if parents could bring their kids to their pediatrician to get the COVID vaccine, they would feel more comfortable doing so.

And I'll say, yeah, you're right. I agree. I know as a parent, I would certainly feel more comfortable with my kid getting a vaccine than getting the vaccine in a drive-through. 7-11. I mean, you know, that's logical. But what about I thought that they had to be kept in this like really expensive high-tech refrigeration. Yeah, that's what we thought, but we were wrong. They're fine. I'm like, okay. Then I'll become a COVID vaccination site. So once you signed up to be a COVID vaccination site, then I just remember getting like cases of blank COVID cards and boxes like this big, like thousands of COVID cards

and putting them in the storeroom of my office. And I'm just like, holy cow. And then I remember the first time, like when I had gotten my COVID vaccine, which was before this, I had gotten my COVID vaccines. One was at a pharmacy and another one was at like the university health center. And I got the card and I'm like, this is just a little paper card. Like my Subway sandwich of the month club card has more security than this card. What are they doing here?

Like I just got a case of these little like paper like library card things. And like these, I mean, you could copy these on a copy machine. Like what are we doing here? Like seriously? But those were the COVID cards. And so, you know, I had these cases of COVID cards. and I had the COVID vaccines and, you know, we weren't just handing them out the window. We would, you made an appointment, you came in, we brought you into the exam room.

I would draw up the vaccine. I would fill out the lot number. Everything was just as if I was giving the vaccine. Every step along the way was the same, every step. And then I would go, you know, in the exam room with the patient. and if, you know, and I knew that they didn't really want it and they were willing to pay $200 to avoid getting it, then or just squirt it in the garbage and put a Band-Aid on their arm and, you know, they'd walk out telling me, oh, my arm hair hurt so bad, you know.

So it was really just that's how I felt comfortable. Was it common for pediatric nurses to pass out COVID-19? shots like to sign up for that? Like the practices like yours? I don't know. I mean, I think so because I know that, you know, my son's pediatrician, which was a separate office, they had it. And I knew a lot of the moms that I was friends with from my son's school were talking

about making appointments for their kids, you know, whether or not, you know, their kid would be getting the COVID vaccine. And you have to remember in New York, there were a lot of rules. For example, if you were to sports, if you were a high school athlete, you were required to get the COVID vaccine or you would be kicked off the team. You wouldn't be allowed to participate. And anybody who knows anything about Long Island sports, high school sports are really big on Long Island. Like everybody thinks their kid is going to be the next like professional.

hockey player or whatever. And, you know, I used to always joke and say, you know, if all that money you're putting into, like, private training and private, like, you know, gear and travel leagues and travel expenses, you can put all that money in a savings account and then you wouldn't need the scholarship because they would always be like, oh, well, it's a good way to get scholarships. I'm like, or you're spending a lot of money to get the – so high school sports are at a whole other level there. And that became a really big deal. Is there a lot of high school athletes that had to get the COVID vaccine or they'd be kicked from the team. So that's when you started

seeing a lot of pediatric offices offering it. And a lot of colleges were requiring it. So did you consult your husband at all about this? No. No. So he had no idea what you're doing. No idea. No idea. Was that kind of like eating you alive that like your husband was a cop and you knew you were kind of teetering along the lines of what you were doing was illegal? Well, it was part of it knowing that he was, he's a much more rational person than I am. Like I'm more emotional and he's more rational. And it would have been a good idea because then he would have been like, are you out of your freaking mind? No. And it would have never happened.

and wouldn't be in this situation. And I think that was part of it was knowing that he would be like, no, absolutely not. Don't even think about it because, you know, it was against the law. No question. Conversation over. And he was right because, you know, with what my family's been through, it wasn't fair to put them through this. and I also didn't want to put him at risk of somehow getting and, you know, somehow being mixed in with it. If I did get caught, you know, that plausible deniability, he truly knew, didn't know what was going on because he truly didn't know what was going on, you know.

Did you come to believe that you were doing the right thing, like in your mind? Morally. Yeah. Morally, I feel like I was doing the right thing. I mean, I certainly wasn't doing it for the money, although it added up to a lot of money, certainly wasn't. I mean, I was charging $200 at a time when people were charging $1,000. I didn't expect the demand to be so high. Like, you know, you brought in so much money.

I'm like, I'm the most shocked. I didn't expect it to be over 4,000 people. I mean, by the end, it was over 4,000 people. I didn't expect it to take off like that. I didn't expect it. Over how much period of time. Whether you're caring for horses, cattle, dogs, or cats. Valley Vet Supply has everything you need to keep your animals healthy and happy.

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But probably a good amount went to salaries. Yeah, I mean, I had to bring on three new employees and I had to add a second shift to my office. So keeping the office open for a second shift. you know, medical supplies because even though, you know, it was kind of interesting from the medical provider perspective, too, because the government was like, okay, you're going to administer these COVID vaccines. You're not allowed to charge a copay. You're not allowed to charge money for it. But you have to add. But then as a medical provider, you had the added staff. Well, I need to hire more staff or I need to, like, it costs money to provide that. the government is like, well, we're not going to charge you for the medical supplies. Because usually, I think a lot of people don't realize how it works in just regular medicine. Your doctor has to buy all those medical supplies up front.

So I would have to buy all of the vaccines in my office. I would have to buy all of the MMR vaccines, all the DTAB vaccines, all the polio vaccines. I'd have to buy the syringes. I'd have to buy the alcohol swabs. I'd have to buy the Band-Aids. like all of that has to be purchased up front. And then you get reimbursed when you give the vaccine. You get reimbursed either the person pays the fee.

So they reimburse you or the insurance company reimburses you. So what they said with the COVID vaccine is, well, the good news is we're not going to charge you for the COVID vaccine. We're just going to supply you with the COVID vaccine. Therefore, you can't charge for it because you're not paying for it. But what about all those? other expenses of running a business. Well, consider it your contribution to the cause. It's like, okay. But, you know, that's just kind of behind the scenes how medical practices work. But, yeah, so, you know, and then I think that's when it just got away from me. It just got crazy.

like, you know, a couple people here and there. And now we got like 150 people a night showing up. And people referring. And I know I'd always say, well, check everybody's referral. Make sure that they're legit because, you know, that's, we don't want to get in trouble. But it just, the numbers just got so overwhelming that I think that the nurses that were, that I hired to do this were probably cutting corners. because we had one day I was there and this guy walks in at like 11 o'clock in the morning. And he's like, I'm here for my second COVID vaccine.

I'm like, I'm sorry. You're here at the wrong time. That's three to seven. And it's like, yeah, I know, but I messed up the time. And I just drove three hours from Sag Harbor and I don't really want to wait around. it. Can you just, can you just help me, you know, okay, just take a seat. And then, you know, the secretary that I had, you know, he brought his card up. He's like, I got the first one two months ago. I'm here for the second one. And he's like, and I want the detox, you know,

which is our way. Oh, okay. And so, you know, he's like, well, that'll be $200. And he's, and he flipped out and he started freaking out. Oh, no, I already paid. Well, you paid for the first one. This is the second one. It's another $200. Oh, they didn't tell me that. And turned into like this big argument.

Like, fine. And looking back now, I realized that that was probably part of like, what it came to is he's like, look. And he had this woman with him and he's like, and you're going to help my friend out too. And I was like, no. You're, what do you? Like, I was confused because I was like the sweet summer child.

was like not like in this like this was all new to me and he's like well this is what you don't understand you're going to do it for free you're not going to try i'm not paying you another penny you're going to give me back the money i already paid you and i'm going to be bringing friends around every month you're going to be taking care of them too and you're going to give him you're going to be giving me a fee a finder's fee and it was like and all of a sudden that's when i just was like what is this breaking bad like wait are you blackmailing me? You're getting extorted.

Are you, wait, wait, wait, what? Like, wait, what? Like, all of a sudden it was like, oh, I'm in this business that I am just so not prepared for. And I'm like, no, you're going to leave and you're never going to come back. You need to go. I'm not getting into this. I'm not getting into this blackmailing, extorting, paying protection. protection money and like, no.

And he's like, well, then I'm going to go to the cops and I'm going to tell them what you're doing. And, you know, being a redhead, I have a little bit of an F you personality. And I keep that beast in the cage 90% of the time, almost because I am so defiant. I'm like, I'm going to prove to you that just because I'm a redhead doesn't mean I'm defiant. And I'm going to be defiant by showing you how non-defiant I am. and but then every now and then that beast gets out of his cage and it's always at the wrong time and it's always at the worst time so I'm like you're threatening to call the cops on me

tell you what I'll call them first and he thought I was you know bluffing and I'm like no I'm going to call the cops that I called the cops I said I have a guy here harassing me I've asked him to leave several times. He's threatening me with blackmail and extortion. It's so the, you know, local village police came, officer came over and he took my story and he took his story. And my story was, well, he came walking in and he said that I have to start paying him protection money or he's going to make up this story and he's going to report me to the cops for doing fake COVID vaccines. And, you know, and then they're, and then they're, and then they're. went and took his side of the story.

And, you know, and then, and everyone always like, well, what about him, like, threatening you with blackmail and extortion? Like, why was that not a thing? Well, because they didn't care about that. Like, so they basically, in the end, you know, gave him immunity so that he could testify against me. So what are you going to do? So that situation started your whole case or they just followed back up on it?

No, that's what. And this was around like the six-month mark. Like that's what brought it to the attention of. Yeah. So did you ever find out who that cop passed it on to, like a detective or something, his statement? Well, they took the statement from the guy that was threatening me with extortion. And then I guess maybe I don't know what made them decide to bump it up the chain, but they thought it was interesting. How long after that do they come and arrest you?

About three months later. And you were still doing the cards in between? Do you think they sent in any undercovers? Yeah, I know they did. Oh, they did send in undercovers. Do you know which one it was looking back on it? Yeah. Oh, wow.

It was two women. And one of them, you know, it was funny because she was like, Victoria's Secret Beautiful. Like we used to call her like Sturper Pretty. And we used to show like, oh, she was just so happy to get out of vice. And so, you know, and but it wasn't, I wasn't there. It was just they had gotten the nurses undercover that were working there that night. You know, the nurse that was working at night, they got her.

And I just happened to, like what happened was we, like, it was when that happened when that guy came and I was like, okay, this is getting out of control. This is, I've bitten off more than I can chew. This is too much. I'm going to stop it. But the problem with the way the mandates came down is they weren't all at once. They were like rolling mandates. So it's like, well, this Friday is the mandate for all the cops.

So can we at least take care of the cops? Well, okay, we'll take care of the cops and we're done. Yeah, but then two weeks later is the firefighter. and then two weeks later is the largest hospital system, all of their nurses, and then the teachers. So it was like, at what point do you let the last person into the lifeboat when the Titanic's sinking? Like, how do you decide who's the first person you're not going to help? And that's a really tough decision because then they're going to look at you with the same desperation, say, but you helped him. Why are you stopping with me?

Like that like all I kept hearing was so just one more just one more just one more And I'd be like if I had stopped it just one more I would have stopped 12 people before you buddy Like you know it's like at what point do you like no seriously I'm sorry I can't help you But you've helped all these other people why are you stopping with me stop with the guy behind me in line, you know? It's like, and so it was really something I probably just wasn't equipped for, you know? What was your end game? Was it hoping that, you know, the COVID or COVID in general would dry up and then? No, it was that once the mandates were done, then we were done. And the mandates ended, like, I think the last mandates coming through was like January. And I was in my office telling everybody, that's it,

next Friday is our last day. And what I, and we're ending it, we're done. And what I didn't realize is it was an undercover officer sitting in the waiting room. So they probably, it became, Like when we were going through their evidence collection and everything, it did become very noticeable at some point that they were planning on maybe getting more. Like we kind of cut their investigation a little short unexpectedly because a week later was when I was arrested. So it's like they were probably planning to continue investigating and getting a lot more evidence. And then all of a sudden they've got me saying, well, next week's our last. day. So they're like, oh, crap, now we've got to, you know, Fisher Cup bait. You know, so. Do you think you would have made it all the way to the end of the mandates if you paid that guy off?

Yeah, I think I would have. Yeah. I mean, I think about that a lot, you know, that I should have just accepted that that was part of what, that was just part of it that I didn't know was part of it, you know? that when you're doing something illegal, even if you think it's for the right reasons, you're going to run into people that are not so nice. And on the flip side, you also don't know if it would have stopped the bleeding because he could ask for more and more and more.

Well, I knew that that's what it was going to be. But it's like, you know, it's like when pharmaceutical companies take into account lawsuit payoffs as part of doing big. business. It was a business expense that I should have been aware was going to be part of the business plan that I didn't know was going to be part of the business plan. I mean, this guy lived, I'm kind of a creep, so I looked him up. He's a semi-professional poker player online, and he lives in a $6 million house in Sack Harbor. And I think looking back that I wasn't the only one, because like I said, everybody knew six different people who were giving out COVID cards.

I was probably just one stop on a whole. He probably had 200 different medical providers on Long Island that he was getting payoffs from, you know. What were you doing with the money? And did your husband notice that you guys had extra money? Well, I had been running a pretty successful medical practice up to that point. I mean, I was bringing in about a quarter million dollars a year just with my medical practice. and, you know, like he'll say sometimes, well, I mean, doctors do well, you know, they own nice homes, they have boats. Like, it's not so weird that a medical practice would be doing well.

And because the circumstances just kind of overwhelmed me so quickly that I really wasn't really, really, like doing anything with the money. I mean, I was just putting in a duffel bag, you know, just putting money in a duffel bag saying, okay, I will deal with you later. I had met with my accountant and said, hey, with COVID, I'm bringing in a lot of money, even though I'm not charging for the COVID vaccine,

people come in, they buy other things. And, you know, don't forget, During COVID, COVID was a very good time financially for most medical practices. I mean, they were doing banging business. And I had a conversation with my account. I'm like, look, the last year has been way busier and way more financially successful than the last year's because of COVID. And so, but I know that this is temporary. So I've brought in a lot of money in the last couple of months from working 16 hours, you know, days during COVID.

Because remember with COVID, it wasn't just COVID vaccine. People were having to come in to get their COVID tests because, you know, they had a little congestion and sniffled. And now they had to get a negative COVID test to go back to work. And a lot of people were coming in with other illnesses that they normally would have been like, I'll give it a couple of days and, you know, if I don't get better, I'll go see the doctor. Well, now they don't have, they had to go right to the doctor and get tested. So business overall was a lot better. And I'm not saying that that meant COVID was a good thing.

I'm not saying that at all. But the fact is most medical practices were very, very busy during COVID and had an abnormal level of business. So they brought in a lot more money. So, you know, I met. with my accountant. I'm like, hey, I want to make sure, you know, I know this isn't going to be an everyday thing. This is a blip. But I want to figure out what to do with this money. And he's like, okay, I'll meet with you in a month. Let me do some research. We'll figure out how we can structure this that'll benefit you for tax purposes. Maybe you'll buy some property. Maybe you'll,

you know, put it in the bank. Maybe you'll buy stock. Like, you know, I don't know. Like, I'm not a financially savvy person. That's why I hired an accountant. And then, you know, that was like, a week before and then a week later. And it's so funny because I wasn't supposed to be at my office that night. I had stopped by my office to drop off some stuff. And I saw that the nurse was there alone and that it was busy. So I said, what happened to your assistant? And she's like, oh, she called in sick.

Okay. So you're here alone? And she's like, yeah. I'm like, this is more than you can handle alone. No, no, no, I'll be fine. No, no, this is a lot. A lot of people here. Tell you what, let me go drop my son off at home.

My husband will bring him to his, you know, after school activity. I'll come back and help you. No, you don't have to do that. No, it'll be all right. So I run my kid home. I go back to the office and I'm sitting there. and this guy walks up and he picks up, you know, I have my iPad and my iPhone, and he picks up my iPad.

And I look at him like, can I help you? He goes, I usually devote him. I'm like, yeah. And he picks up my phone. And he pulls out his badge. And he's like, yeah. And then he put me in cuffs. You put the nurse in cuffs.

And, you know. It's just him or there's not? No, then a couple of other. people came in. The two women who were the undercover's pulled out their badges. And that's when my nurse looked at them and looked at me. And she's just like, you know, I was like, oh. How old was the nurse that worked for you, young or older?

Not that young. I mean, you know, a little younger than me, mid-40s. But she knew what she was doing. Yeah. Yeah. But she was like I said, like she was politically very motivated about this. Like she, 100% we were doing the right thing. 100% we were saving people's lives.

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Now, this was the first time you've ever been arrested in your life. Yeah. What was that feeling like? It was keep your head in the game. You know, like I think it helped being married to a cop for 20 years because I don't think he realized what an education he was giving me just from watching movies and watching television. And, you know, you've watched these crime movies and TV

and he'd always be joking about what an idiot. And like I remember once where it was this line and, well, are you an undercover cop? And the person was like, no. well because if you are you have to tell me you're not allowed to lie and he's like we lie all the time you know like of course we're allowed to lie we're allowed to say whatever we need to say to get a confession you know they hey your buddy just ratted you out oh okay and then you find out your buddy never ratted you out like you know like he's like this is what we do and like he would

always say like in the scenes somebody get arrested keep your mouth shut Don't say anything. All you should say is I need to talk to my lawyer. That's the only words that should be coming out of your mouth is I want to talk to a lawyer. So I remember looking at the guy and saying, I need to call my lawyer. I need to call my attorney. And he was like, you'll be able to call your attorney when you need to. And I said, well, you're tossing my office and I'm in cuffs. If ever there was a time I needed to call my attorney, I think this describes it pretty well. and he's like you'll be able to talk to you you'll call your attorney when you need to so and then so all that kept going through my head is don't say anything don't say anything to the point where I really got under the skin of this one officer that this woman because she was asking like name date of birth and I was like I need to talk to my lawyer I need to call my lawyer like that is literally the only thing I say.

I just need your name. My name is I need to call my lawyer. And they, you know, brought me into the, you know, this room with a desk. They cuffed me to the desk. There was a phone. And she was like, well, I need to get some information before you can call your, call my, you know, before you can call your lawyer. And I said, no, I think I need to call my lawyer before I give you any information.

and I think what really kind of like ticked them off a little bit was I did maintain like I was very calm the whole thing. I just was like my head isn't. And I think that comes from working the medical field for 30 years. Like as much as I'm an emotional person on the outside, I worked in pediatric neurosurgical critical care, neonatal critical care. And when the shit hits the fan, you kind of. put yourself in this like emotional box you have to so i got good at like just like okay you know because during a code the last thing you need is to break down and get emotional lose it so i got good at like okay this is i'm gonna just stay very calm but you know and she kept saying like well

you need to answer these questions and i'm like well i'm not answering i'm not i'm not telling you anything. Well, it's just your name and address. This is just pedigree. You can tell me pedigree. I'm not telling you anything. Like, I was really driving her and crazy. And I remember her saying, look, and this is at like, 8 o'clock at night. She's like, look, the judge has got to leave in an hour. If you give me your pedigree, I can at least get you in front of the judge and we can get you home tonight. And, you know, but if you're going to keep playing these games, you're going to end up spending the night in a cell. And I was like, I'm not telling you anything. And she's like, but I really want to get you in front of the judge. I want you to be. And then she's like, do you

want your husband to tell your son, mom's not coming home tonight because she's in jail? And I was like, well, my family wants me to come home the right way. It's not about when, it's how. And that's when I think she just knew. Like, okay. She's so. And I remember part of that, I'm like, I'd like to call my lawyer, and I think you need to let me call my lawyer if I ask to call my lawyer. Like, I'm not a lawyer, but I think that's kind of important. And she's like, I'm not stopping you from calling your lawyer. I'm not interfering with you calling your lawyer. The phone's right there.

Go ahead and call him. I don't know his number. It's like, I don't have them memorized. Now I keep it on a piece of paper in my shoe, but like, I didn't know. So I was like, well, I need to. look up his phone number. And she's like, oh, well, that's not my problem. I'm not interfering with you calling your lawyer. If you don't know your lawyer's phone number, that's your problem, not mine. So if I ever give anybody any advice, you know, keep your lawyer's phone number on a piece

of paper in your shoe. Because don't just rely that you're going to be able to look it up. So I said, well, the number is in my phone. I need to be able to look it up. And she said, well, give me the pass code to your phone and I'll look it up for you. I was like, no, I'm not going to give you the pass code to my phone because I'm not stupid, you know. So she's like, well, if you don't give me the pass code to your phone, you can't look up your lawyer's phone number, then, you know, you're going to have to spend the night in the cell. Okay. And then I guess, you know, when she realized that she's like, all right, well, And I thought, well, I could call my husband.

I know his phone number. He doesn't know my lawyer's phone number. But you got to remember all this time, I didn't know what was going on with him. I thought he had just taken our kid to a scout meeting. Everyone was like going, hmm, mom's not home yet. What's going on? I didn't know that he and my son were sitting in his friend's car who was an attorney while four guys were tossing our house. And he was being told, you know, like he tells me they shut up to the door.

or like, we have a warrant to search the house. And he's like, I think you have the wrong address. And they're like, they gave the address. And your wife is Julie Devona, right? He's like, yeah. Well, we have a warrant. She's been arrested. And we have a warrant to search the house.

He's like, are you sure? So, you know, it's. And I really, it's awful. what they had to, I can, I don't have to imagine, but like what he had to go through must have been awful. I mean, I know it was awful. And, you know, that's something that, you know, I still have to try to make up for in my life, but, you know, to be, you know, going about your business, knock on the door and you're being told that your wife's been arrested and that there's a warrant to search your house and you're like, are you sure you have the right address? So I call him.

And he's like, look, my friend who I'm sitting, I called my friend because he's an attorney and he, I didn't know who else to call. So I called him. And he's, we're sitting in his car. And he's like, he's going to be calling you. You don't have to worry about getting his number. He's going to be calling you. And he's going to be your attorney because he's like, I don't know. You know, it's just this guy that was a friend of his.

that, you know, he just, who do you call? You call, oh, I've got a friend who's an attorney. And he was a good attorney. I mean, he was a former judge. He was president of the bar. Like, he was good. So, you know, he called me. I know the woman came in.

She's like, your attorney's on the phone. I'm like, okay, thank you. And, you know, I'm on the phone with him. And he's like, listen, they're going to ask you questions. You can give them pedigree information. But listen very closely. I'm going to tell you exactly what that is. You can tell them your name, your address, your phone number,

and your social security number, you know. But that's it. Nothing else they ask you is pedigree. That's it. Do you understand me? I'm like, yes. He's like, don't say anything. Just answer yes. Yes. And he's like, all right, I'm going to stop by, check on you in a little while. And by now, this is like 11 o'clock at night. Like, okay. So she comes in and she's like, so you can answer some questions now. I'm like, I can certainly answer pedigree questions. So she asked me, what's your name? Give her my name. What's your phone number? Give her my phone number. Who's your cell carrier? And I'm like, she's like, what? I'm like, that's not a pedigree question. And she's like, well, it's just, who's your cell carry? Is it 18D, Verizon, Sprint? Who is it?

It's not a difficult question. And I'm like, I'm not answering that. You know, it's not a pedigree question. So then she's like, address. I gave her my address. It's your email address. I'm like, that's not a pedigree question. So I think she realized, like at that point, okay,

she's not like I guess she was hoping she could trick me up and you know and I just had been forewarned so I was like okay fine and you know and then I remember her clenching the cuffs tighter and she's like I'm going to let you sit here for a little while and see if you'll be more cooperative and then she left and then like I don't know how long it was maybe felt like forever maybe felt like an hour she comes back she's like are you more and mood more in the mood to talk now. And I'm like, I will answer pedigree questions, but that's it. And then I heard my attorney's voice outside in the, you know, that main, in the main room.

And he's like, you know, and he's talking his lawyer talk and I'm here to represent, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, I would just like to do a wellness check for, you know, her husband. and wanted me to just check on her to make sure she's doing okay. And this officer looks and she's like, well, that's not going to happen. And I couldn't see him, but he was like, really? Like, you're not going to let me, really? And she's like, so, and I just yelled out. I'm like, it's all right, I'm okay.

And he's like, okay. And he told me later that in all the years he had been, he was a police officer and then he became an attorney and then he became a judge and then he was president of the bar so this is a guy that's like semi-retired has had a very long career and he's like I'd never been denied a wellness check on a client before like that was just like he was like really so so then I spent the night in the cell and the next day I saw the judge and and then And, you know, and then I went home. You saw the judge on a Saturday?

No, I was arrested on a Thursday. That was a Thursday. Yeah. And they came that late for you. Yeah. Wow. And then fortunately, we had a big, big snowstorm Friday afternoon. And I'm like, good, this will, because now they're like, this will help with the media coverage.

Nobody's going to care about this when there's a snowstorm coming. So that was like one of those things that kind of kept it low, you know, kept it. What was your first conversation with your husband? It was about when you finally confess to him what happened. I was just like, well, it took a long time, you know, for the beginning, it was just, look, I didn't know what these women were doing. Because they immediately turned witness. You know, like they took plea deals within a week. They took plea deals.

And said you were the ring leader, the corrupt. nurse that did it all. And I just, you know, kept saying, well, I didn't know what they were doing. I was just hiring. They were doing all this on their own. And because I couldn't throw them under the bus. Because I felt very strongly. I didn't want to throw anyone under the bus.

But I didn't get a chance to throw them under the bus because they threw me down to the bus first. So now it's like, well, it's not going to do them any harm for me to deny that I had anything, you know, knew anything about it. and was hoping that if they couldn't prove that I knew what was going on, then they, then maybe I would be successful in the end at trial. Like, okay, we suspect it, but we don't have enough evidence to prove that you knew what was going on. Because I wasn't there physically.

Like, I didn't, you know, but, you know, but it's funny because, like, when I was in the holding cell waiting for, to see the judge, this officer came up to the cell. And there were like four of us, you know, how in a holding cell. It's all of the people waiting for trial. And that morning this guy came and he goes, Julie Devonno, and I look up, I'm like, yeah, that's me. He's like, come here.

I'm like, he's like, closer. Like, you're kind of scared? He's like, come closer. So I'm like, oh. And I get like, he like wanted me like right up at the cell. Like, I'm like, what's he going to do to me? Like, I don't know. And he looks at me and goes, thank you.

My wife and I thank you. And I was like, okay. He's like, is there anything I can do for you? I'm like, I would really love some gatorade. Because, you know, when you're in jail, you don't know this. I didn't know this. All they give you is like a turkey sandwich, like gas station type turkey sandwich. milk. They can only give you milk. And when you're thirsty and dehydrated, you don't, milk isn't

going to cut it. So I'm like, I really love some Gatorade. He's like, okay, I'll get you some Gatorade. And then he also told some other guys, he's like, look, these two put them in another cell just by themselves. So I guess he was kind of trying to help us, like, do us a favor. So there was that. Like I always say there's like angels in the outfield, you know, like so many along the way people were doing the best they can to help me because they didn't feel like what I did was morally wrong. And then I found out the day after I was arrested and sent home that Friday on Saturday, the news was that nine of the court officers in the courtroom with me were fired because they got their COVID cards at my office. So I think about how when I was standing there in handcuffs, facing the judge, and there were all these scary looking cops, you know, court officers with standing there looking tough and stern.

And then I find out the next day they were all probably like, holy crap, this is the woman I got my COVID card from, you know, so they all got fired. How would they even know that you issued it? Because my name was on it. But it's just like a signature, right? Well, no, you had to do an office stamp. So it had to have like the name of the, like if, you know, it would say where you got. Like mine says Walgreens, Montauk Highway, you know, an identifier.

So the identifier was on it. And they probably kept it on file at the courthouse. Yeah. That sucks. Yeah. So there was that. I was pretty certain. I was 100% certain.

at that point that my husband was going to have two things to say to me, which is we're getting a divorce, taking the kid, I'm never going to speak to you again, because he was such a upstanding good cop. Like, he was one of the good ones. Like, I know cops get a bad rap, especially in New York, but he was truly one of the good ones. He has a very strong sense of right, wrong, good, bad, like, there is no gray. And I just couldn't see a way forward.

after such a huge betrayal. I mean, I'm not going to minimize what an enormous betrayal this was to him. This is, you know, short of unforgivable betrayal. But so I was pretty certain that that was what's going to happen. And then we get in the car. And he had brought our son with him to the courtroom. And I was like so upset. I'm like, oh, man.

I didn't want him to see his mother in cuffs, you know. but he had felt that it might not have been a good idea for him to go to school that day. So brought him. And so I didn't get a chance to talk to him before like, okay, we're leaving the courtroom. And my lawyer is like, look, there's a lot of press out there. I'm going to see if I can pull a favor and get you out a side door. And my husband's like, you know, put her. jacket on and he gave me his hat he's like put a hat on pull it down over your face and don't say

anything to anybody we're just going to push through and my my son is he's a big kid like he's 16 he's like five nine and 180 pounds and he's not chubby he's just he's like jack diesel viking stock kid you know he's like and so my son was on one side of me and my husband's the other side and we just walked through the press. We just pushed through because some of them had found out, oh, she was coming out this way. So, and then we got in the car. So the first time I had talked to him, we were in the car, son was in the back seat. And it's like this awkward silence of what do you say, you know, especially with your kids sitting in the back. And he spoke first. And he's like, well, for better or worse, right? And I'm like, yeah. He's like, well, I hope it doesn't get much worse.

and this. And I was like, so we're not getting divorced? And he's like, no. And I just, that's when I just broke down because, you know, I, not what I, like, expected. And not to say it's been easy, but, you know, at least he's like, so now one of the things that I feel very strongly is that. that, you know, we believe our justice system, you know, we believe justice is blind. And I really want to live in a country where justice is blind.

Right now, I don't think justice is blind. My experience, justice sees the world through red and blue color glasses. There's such a political influence because there are so many points along my journey where we know with everything there's a ring. between are they going to hit you with the maximum, the minimum, or somewhere in the middle? And despite having, you know, being a first-time offender with a clean record, not even a speeding ticket, and being a contributing member society, being a homeowner, a business owner, you know, class mom, all of this, I was being hit with the maximum at every step of the way.

And the only way that that made sense was because of the political nature. of what I did. And I really think that there's so much room in our justice system where maybe we need to do some tweaking so that there's less room for subjectivity. There's less room for someone to decide to pursue this with this level versus this case charge with this level. Like, you know, from the DA who decides, okay, we're going to charge this person with, Okay, well, this person, it's their third drunk driving charge.

They've got four misdemeanors for weapons, charges, and domestic violence. But, you know what? Let's drop the charges or let's downgrade the charges. And then you get someone else who's a first time offender with a clean record and has a job and family. Like, you know, yeah, but there's a political, you know, this has the aura of a political, you know what? let's hit her with the maximum. And I, the one thing, one of the things I learned from this is I didn't know how much room for how much wiggle room there is in our justice system.

And I really feel like that needs to be cleaned up. Because it's not that I feel like I shouldn't have been punished. It's just when you see so many things, especially in New York, there are so much worse that are downgraded and dropped and then all of a sudden you're hit with the maximum, it feels unfair. And the first point of that was when I was originally supposed to be indicted in October, I was arrested in January, I was supposed to be indicted in October. And then the day before my indictment, you know, everybody was praying, I was praying, my patients were praying, my friend, family, my church, everybody was like, I was going to call,

Hey, we're having a prayer circle. You want to stop by. Like, there was so much praying going on. Because so many people feel, felt like it wasn't just me personally. But what I was doing was trying to help people who were being unfairly put in a position where their civil right to bodily autonomy was being invaded. And we were trying to find a way to, you know, kind of like that slipping them out the back door type of thing. And like there was this doctor that I knew who was fighting really hard on the front lines,

politically to get the laws changed. And I admired that. And I was, you know, but I would always tell them, well, while you're out there fighting on the front lines, I'm sneaking people over the border, you know? We're on opposite ends of the same side. And then that morning, that next morning, I called my attorney. I'm like, well, am I indicted yet? Because he said, you don't go.

He's like, I'll call you if I need you to come, but you just stay home. Am I indicted yet? He's like, well, the darndest thing happened. Like, what happened? He's like, there was a massive cyberware computer attack, and all of Suffolk County's computers were crashed. You can't even get a speeding ticket processed. And I was like, wow. I'm like, what does that mean for me?

He's like, I don't know. Right now we're all just like, how long is it going to take for the computers to get back online? That's when we'll be able to move this forward. So then they had to get their computer systems up and running. So then the following, it took to the following, is it? I forget what month it was, April. I don't remember the month. All I remember is that Trump and I were indicted at the same time.

So I think he went to trial. No, but his initial indictment. Okay, yeah. Yeah. So my lawyer was like, good news. I'm like what? He's like, Trump was indicted at the same time. So that took the news off of you.

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By quieting food noise. Bite it. Learn more at join mochi.com. Mochi members have access to licensed physicians and nutritionists. Results may vary. So I'm like good. So the media is going to have something else to keep them busy. What were your charges?

Felony, providing a false instrument for filing. And then one of the things that I learned about our justice system too is they don't want to go to trial. They very much want you to just take a deal. So what they do. is they stack charges. So that means that, well, you might feel like you could fight one charge, but if we stack a bunch of them at you, you're just like, like that creature where you cut one head off and two more spring up, you know, it just gets to be like, you're just going to throw your hands up because you're like, well, I can't face all of this. So then they charged me with

money laundering, which was kind of hard to, I still don't quite understand. because if I had to give you a working definition of money laundering right now, I don't think I could do it. I don't really understand what it is. But they were saying that because I paid my half of our mortgage out of funds from my business, that that was money laundering. And I'm like, well, isn't that why a person has a business? Like I had been paying this for 10 years.

I've been paying my half of the mortgage. And my lawyer was like, well, it's really about intent. And I feel pretty confident that it wasn't your intent to launder money. I'm like, well, how does I mean, I don't even understand how paying, like, explain to me how paying my half of the mortgage was laundering money. I mean, I was just paying my bills. And like, well, and my lawyer's like, look, they decided to call it money laundering as money laundering. But now you've got two felonies. And I was already a quarter million dollars in legal fees.

It would be another $100,000 per trial. and I was tapped out because the first thing they did was debank me so my bank accounts all got closed so and then they seized all of my money they took everything they found in our house down to the pennies in my wallet and so you know it's like okay I can only you know what am I going to pay my you know I'm done I'm out of money so my attorney's like well it'll be a hundred thousand thousand dollars per trial. But now because there's two felonies, it would be $200,000. And it was just like, it just starts to feel so overwhelming that you're just like, and then there was so much that happened before I even got to that point. Like when I was indicted,

and this was one of those examples of when they could have chose the minimum, they went straight to the maximum. And that was like the first red pill moment for my attorney and the district attorney's prosecutor because I saw a look on his face. And when you say, see the look on someone's face when they're red-pilled. You never forget it. And I swear that's what I saw on his face. Because we're there and the judge is like, okay, you know, this wasn't my, this was not the indictment. This was something else. The charges, because the indictment I didn't have to go in for. And then there was another court date that I had to go in person for. So I'm in front of the judge and my lawyer standing next to me and I see the prosecutor's attorney. and they had done all their back and forth. And then finally the judge was like, okay, so what are we doing moving forward? And I heard the DA's attorney say,

well, we're comfortable with continued ROR, meaning released on your own recognizance. Basically, you're released, stay out of trouble, don't cause any problems, fine. And he said, we're fine with continued RORR, because we don't have any, she's not a flight risk. We don't have any concerns that she's a flight risk. She doesn't have any money left.

She's got a business. She's trying to run. She's got a family. She's got a home. She's not going anywhere. And then the judge asked my attorney, well, what are you thinking? And he's like, well, of course, Your Honor, we agree. My client has kept us abreast of her location at all times.

Anytime we call, anytime we meet with her, we have no concerns. So it seemed like at that moment both sides were like, we're fine with this. And the judge said, house arrest with electronic monitoring. And I just saw the prosecutor and my lawyer both just look at each other. Like he was just as surprised as my attorney. And my attorney was like, and I see the prosecutor. The prosecutor's look was like, like, I had Johnson. And I'm like, okay.

And we're walking out of the courtroom. And my attorney went over. And before he even had chance to anything, the prosecutor was like, we had nothing. We don't know where this came from. And my attorney's like, well, you know, of course, we're going to be taking us to the appellate court in Brooklyn. Like, we're going to appeal this. And he's like, you won't get any. Push back from me.

Like you could, he was saying, yeah. We don't know. And I'm sitting there saying, well, what does this mean? Like, what's electronic monitoring? What's house arrest? And he explained to me, well, you're going to have to go to probation. They're going to put an ankle monitor on you. I'm like, okay, okay.

I'm thinking because I'm stupid and naive that it was going to be like a Apple watch or something. You know. So I go to probation and I'm dressed, you know, I look kind of like this, that my hair was up. And I do crocheting to keep, you know, busy. So I'm sitting there waiting. I'm crocheting. And the guy comes out, he goes, Julie Devono, and he's looking past me. He's like looking around.

I'm like, oh, that's me. And he's just like, really? Okay. And he comes in. and, you know, I'm taking off my, you know, designer, Rutherland shoe boots because, you know, I was wearing boots. And he's explaining to me this ankle monitor that's like the size of a walkman. And he puts it on my ankle and he gives me the charger. And he says, it only holds a charge for about eight hours and it takes about two hours to charge.

So you're going to have to keep yourself plugged in. Just always be charging. Here's a car charger. and I'm just like, okay. And I'm like, how am I going to put my boot back on? He's like, no. And like, I think he could tell he's kind of like in shock as he's like, look, I'm sure it'll be off before bathing suit season.

I'm just like, I'm just worried about how am I going to get home? And he's like, let me give you some advice. Go home, take a sock, cut the toe, cut the, you know, cut the sock, wrap the sock around it. It'll help with, you know, from bruising and banging. You know, it'll kind of soften it a little bit. I'm like, okay. Like, he was really, like, he talked about fishing, talked about a boat.

He's got a boat. Like, you know, nice normal conversation. And he's trying to help, like, okay. And then I had to be in my house from 6 p.m. to 7 a.m. So I would go to my office during the day. A couple of times I was squeaking in like, to the driveway, two minutes late. I'm calling them. My ankle's buzzing. You know. You were still able to keep your practice and see patients? Yeah, because my lawyer is like,

look, she's running a business. And he said, well, what are her hours? I'm like, hours. I don't know. I don't have hours. I'm as needed as available. It's a boutique practice. And he's like, just throw some hours at me. I'm like, oh, nine to five. He's like, okay, nine to five. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, nine to five is just my office. I'm a mom. I got to drop my kid off his school. I got to take my kid to after school activities. You know, like, it's kind of a narrow perspective to think that just my job is when I need to be out of the house. So he gave me from 7 to, I think it was 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. So they adjusted the time so that I could drive my son to school in the morning and pick him up in the after school.

and then have him home, and then my husband would take him to his after-school activities. And I remember one time pulling out of the driveway, my son had to be at school early, so we were leaving a little early. As soon as I pulled out of the driveway, my ankle started buzzing. I was like, oh, that's right. It's not 7 o'clock yet. So I called them. I'm like, I didn't realize it was 5 of 7. I pulled out of the driveway. Like, to me, that was like, oh, my gosh, they're going to show up at the door. And then they would laugh. They're like, it's okay. It would give you like five minutes, grace period.

You know, it's like, you know, but so I had that for about, I had that for eight months. But then one of the things, too, that the Brooklyn appellate, you know, the appellate court, they, my lawyer's like, okay, got, I'm going to try to get the appeals court take it. Okay, the appeals court decided to hear the case. Okay, you don't have to go. I'll tell you how it went. Like, okay. Am I going to be able to go to my cousin's wedding this weekend?

Absolutely. There couldn't be an easier case. Very rarely does an appeals court have both sides agree. So this is going to be easy. And they called me, he said, okay, they heard the case. It looks good. I think you'll be fine. It was very simple.

Me, the prosecutor and I, we both were like, yeah, yeah, we think ROR is fine. We think it was a little bit of overkill. We don't think it was necessary. So he's like, very rarely do they have it that easy? You know, usually they have to take sides. Both sides agree. It shouldn't be a problem. So then the next day he calls me, he's like, I've never seen this before in my career.

I'm like, I'm in hearing that way too much from you. He's like, they just called me and said they're not going to hear the case. And so they already heard the case. He's like, that's what I told them. They already heard the case. And I said, then what did they say? They said, well, we decide we're not going to take it. I'm like, we can't decide not to take it after you already heard it.

And they said, yeah, we've decided we're not going to take the case. So for those that are more conspiratorial minded, maybe who, whoever is pulling the strings of this whole situation found out, it went to the appeals court, called the appeals court and said, don't you dare take that case? And they're like, well, we already heard the case. Well, you call them back, tell them you're not taking it. So that's how that happened.

And then a couple months later, they had the chief prosecutor assigned to me because I'm that dangerous. And, you know, I mean, they could be going after drug dealers where instead they're going after me for charging people for, not giving them a drug, but anyway, they arrested the Gilgo Beach serial killer. And that's when it came to their attention. Oh, we have the chief prosecutor assigned to her. Now we have to go after a serial killer.

It probably wouldn't look good to have the chief prosecutor assigned to her when we have a serial killer to prosecute. So they reassigned the prosecutor to the serial killer, and then I had to get a new prosecutor, so they had to postpone my court date for. a couple of weeks. Okay. My lawyer said, well, I have an unexpected two weeks off. I'm going to take my family on vacation. And I was like, you do that. Have a great time. And I think it's important to note that as a defense attorney, a criminal defense attorney, the court has his schedule. So when he put in and

said, yeah, I'm going on vacation, I'm taking my family to, you know, the Dominican Republic for a week, they knew that. And then a week later at night, I'm in my pajamas, helping him sitting at the table, helping my kid with math, and there's a knock on the door. And it's two officers. It's like, we have a warrant to take in your wife. My husband's like, what now? I'm like, enough? No, I swear. And like, well, she missed her court date. And we're like, no, her court date was resched. So while my husband's out front at the front door explaining to them, my court date was rescheduled by the court. I'm in the back trying to get a hold of my attorney.

And I couldn't because he was out of the country. And he had a backup attorney. But that guy, I couldn't get a hold of him. So I come out and my husband's like, look, I know you guys hear this all the time. He's like, I'm a cop. I know I hear it all the time. Oh, there's a mistake. There's a mistake.

But I'm telling you this time, there really is a mistake. her court date was rescheduled for two weeks from now. So she didn't miss her court date. Her court date was rescheduled. And they're like, look, we're just trying to do our job. We don't make this decision. We just have to bring her in. And they were nice.

They were actually super nice guys. I could, I mean, they couldn't have treated me better. They're like, look, why you go change into something warm, no strings, no shoelaces, but something warm and comfortable and something. presentable to see the judge. You'll see the judge in the morning. You'll work it all out. Okay. So they take me in and it was a bench warrant, meaning you missed your court date, you go to a holding cell, you see the judge, they straighten it out. By the time I got to the precinct, it had magically turned into an arrest warrant, which is you've already been tried,

convicted, and you ran. I'm like, yeah, but that's not what happened. And all I kept hearing was, well, our computers say it was. So we have to process this as an arrest warrant. So I remember calling my husband saying, did you get a hold of my attorney? Yes, I got a hold of him. He's beside himself. He's trying to get a hold of the DA,

but he's in the Dominican Republic with really bad cell service. So he's doing his best, but he knows. I'm like, okay. And he's like, are you, is everything okay? I said, well, I don't think so. And he's like, why? I said because they said that it's an arrest warrant.

And he's like, no, it's not an arrest warrant. It's a punch warrant. Like, they're saying it's an arrest warrant. He's like, that's changed. I don't know. They're going to send, they're taking me somewhere else now. He's like, all right. Call me when you can.

I got to call your lawyer. So then they drove me to the riverhead correctional facility. And they processed me as an inmate. And they handed me a jumpsuit and a plastic bag full of sheets and blankets. And they were checking me in like I was a regular convicted inmate. and I kept saying, there's a mistake here. I haven't even been to trial yet. My court date was postponed.

And all I kept hearing over and over was our computer says otherwise. I'm like, okay. And I was trying to argue with this one guard. And I wasn't arguing in an antagonistic way. I was more like shocked. I was like, no, no, no. There's been a mistake. Yeah, we hear that all.

the time. No, this time there really is. This is, I missed my court date, which I didn't miss my court date. It was rescheduled, but they think I missed it, but they're the ones who rescheduled it. And I'm supposed to see the judge and the monastery and that. And I guess because I was getting animated, I saw her take a very aggressive position physically. And that's when I realize, oh, okay. And I put my hand, you're not going to have any trouble for me. I'm not going to and God's any problems. Just can you make a phone call for it? Can you, can you call?

Because I'm telling you, this is a mistake. And she's like, I don't feel like making any phone calls. Are you kidding me? And it reminds me of that line Bill Cosby used to use about when his kids were fighting. And he'd say parents aren't interested in justice. They're just interested in quiet. I think that kind of was what was going on with a lot of the corrections officers. they're not really interested in justice,

like whether there was a mistake made or not, they really don't care. They just want quiet. They just want to get through the night with a peace, quiet, no problems. So I'm like, okay. So I knew I wasn't going to get anywhere with that. Nobody was going to take on my fight for me.

So I'm like, okay. So then I go and I get chain or everything. And then they're like, okay, you've been assigned to a solitary cell. Like, really? Why? I don't know. A computer says put you in solitary instead of general population. So we're going to put you in solitary.

Like it's a whole time. I'm just like you guys have like down, you've outsourced your brains to the computers. Does this make sense? Does any of this make sense to you? Does it make sense that I'm going to be in solitary? Like I'm 140 pounds and like not dangerous. And they're like a computer says solitary. So they put you in solitary.

So they put me in solitary. And I had my plastic bag. And then they took my glasses because my glasses could be a deadly weapon. So I couldn't see. And then they gave me this inmate's handbook, which I couldn't read because I couldn't see. And I'm in this solitary cell with this plastic bag filled with sheets and blankets. And I'm looking around and it was filthy, like filthy, like stuff smeared on the walls that I didn't want to think about. So I just, like, made this cocoon out of the clean sheets and blankets.

I just, like, made, like, a nest cocoon around myself and just, you know, tried to keep from catching hepatitis. And the next morning, I go to see the judge. And the judge's like, oops. And I had a attorney that, not my attorney, but my husband had called, said, no matter what happens, you know, in the previous night, he says, no matter what happens, you will have an attorney there. I'm like, okay. So I meet this guy.

He's my, you know, temporary attorney. And we see the judge and the judge, oh, yeah, or bad. I'm like, yeah. And he's like, okay. And he wrote this document and my lawyer signed it. And he says, okay, you need to sign this. And I signed it. He says, look, these are your release papers.

the computers could, you know, there was a lot of computer problems over the last 24 hours. I'm like, really? He says, yeah, but it could take up 72 hours for the computers to straighten out. So I'm giving you this document. You need to hang on to this. This is very important. If you get pulled over on the way home, cops show up to your house, you just show them this document. And that lets them know that it was a big computer problem and that these are your release papers and it'll be fine.

Okay. and if I could ever give anybody any more advice, don't let your lawyer leave while you're still in handcuffs. Because the lawyer looks at me and goes, okay, well, nice meeting you. I wish you luck. Your husband will meet you out front. Like, okay. I guess I'm going to go meet my husband out front.

He's like, yeah. Okay. So then they take me in the back room where I assume they were going to take the cuffs off of me and let me go meet my husband out front. And instead they threw me back in the cell. And then I'm like, what's going on? I've been released. Look, here's the paper. Says so. The judge signed it.

And they're like, yeah, our computers say otherwise. Yeah, that's why I gave me the paper. It said it could take 72 hours of the computer to train out. He's in the next room. You could ask him. I don't feel like it. Well, could you call him? Could you call somebody?

Nah. So then they put me back in the bus. Threw me back in solitary. What a mess. And every step of the way I'm showing them. Look, look. I have papers. I have papers.

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How'd they not here in the courtroom? Like, why wouldn't they just release you right then and there? And so they put me back in solitary, and I showed the corrections officer. Look, I have papers. Yeah, our computer says otherwise. Oh, that's right. You're not interested in justice. You're just interested in quiet.

Okay, I'll be quiet. And then there was a change of shift. And I did get somewhere where the new CEO, she was an older woman, she at least looked at the papers. She said, oh, this is good news. You're being released. Like, yeah. Why am I still here?

Oh, well, it takes time for our computers to update. I'm like, yeah, he said it could take 72 hours. She's like, yeah, but at least you've got the papers. So then I finally was like, There was this young woman who was not in solitary who was on the phone talking. So I was like, hey. And she's like, what? I said, can you make a phone call for me?

Because this whole time, my husband was expecting me to walk out the front door of the courthouse. And now this is like nine hours later. So I don't know what Heath was told or what was going on. So I said, can you call? And she's like, well, I don't know how much. credits I said, look, I'll give you an apple and a container of milk. Okay. So I traded an apple in a container of milk. She called my husband and I could hear through the phone. She's telling me, he wants to know where you are. And I said, tell him I'm back where I started in solitary and,

you know, and she's like, why? I don't know why. He's like, okay, he said to tell you, he's still out here because you got to remember riverhead's like two hours away from our house so he did not go home he had the presence of mind to say okay she's not coming out of the courthouse i don't know where she is but i'm going to stay here until because he was afraid as a police officer they now had custody of me and yet nobody knew where i was he was afraid they could throw me on a bus and take me to another facility and i could get lost in the system so he's like look i'm going to say sit here and watch. If I see them put you on the bus, I'm going to call your lawyer again, but I don't want to lose track of it. I don't want to get the call. We don't know where she is.

And that sounds crazy in the United States in 2025, but that's what happened. Because when I, she said he was telling her, where, I've been on the phone with your lawyer. So basically, just to sum up, he'd called my lawyer in the DR. The lawyer had called the district attorney. The district attorney called the judge. Everybody was calling everyone asking, where is my client? I don't know. She was released. Well, her husband said she didn't come out the door.

Where is my client? We don't know. She was released. So for those nine hours, I really was lost in the system. They could have done whatever they wanted with me. You still have the ankle monitor on, too? No, because they take the ankle monitor off when you're in jail. Okay.

So, but then they put it back. on when I left jail. So my husband, you know, so basically at least my husband was like, well, at least we found you. So then he's like, but I got to call your lawyer now that we know where you are. So he, you know, so she hung up the phone. She's like, well, I hope that helped. And I said, no, really, it did. It helped me tremendously. And I said, and I'm going to send you money after I get out of here to pay you back for your phone. You can put in your commissary. And she's like, oh, that'd be great. Next week's my birthday.

I'm like, really, mine too. You're just like, oh, like, she was so young and cute and sweet. And I was like, and she's like, well, I'm in here for six months. You're lucky. You're going home soon. I was like, yeah. I said, what did you do to end up here? Like, she's young enough to be my daughter.

Like I started feeling maternal. And she's like, I got in with the wrong man. And I did end up after I got out, I sent her $20 bill with a card that says there is $20 cash enclosed in this envelope for your commissary. Thank you for making the phone call. So, you know, I kind of. But so then an hour later, they buzzed and they're like, okay, you're being released. And they're like, okay, we got to take you to probation. So then the guy from probation who would put the ankle monitor on the first time recognized me.

He's like, hey, we were wondering where you were. I'm like, yeah, there seems to be a lot of that going on. He's like, yeah, we got notification on our computer system at 1130 that you were released. We've been expecting you since noon. And I'm like, hmm, interesting. Your computer updated, but no one else's did. He's like, yeah, we were about to send out an APB. We thought you caught and run.

I'm like, yeah, and the whole time I'm sitting in a solidarity. all. So I remember that because I remember thinking, hmm, your computer updated at noon, but 8 o'clock at night I'm being told that the computers had an updated. And so my takeaway is, I don't think this was a series of computer errors. I think it was them trying to, while they knew my lawyer was out of the country. Let's mess with her a little bit. Let's play with her a little bit. Let's give her a taste of what she could be expecting. You're really going to play games here? You're really going to do this? This is what you could be expecting. So, I mean, that's just my opinion, speculation. I've been told by a couple of friends of mine that are

attorneys. So I'm like, they're like, oh, because I'm like, well, is this allowed? Like, can they just make these mistakes and land somebody in a solitary cell for 24 hours? Like, is that really the country we live in? And they're like, oh, no, you definitely have some complaints for civil rights violations. I mean, the ankle monitor would seem to be a little bit of a, you know, house arrest and ankle monitor seems to be a little bit of overzealous. And then to have computer error. I mean, even if they truly were computer errors, they're still responsible for that error.

I mean, their error, their computer errors landed somebody in solitary for 24 hours. I mean, that can't happen. And if it does, they're responsible. So, you know, and so I'll say, well, oh, well, do you want to help me with, you know, do you want to help me with a case, like to sue them for violation of my civil rights? And I'm like, well, I'm not a civil rights attorney. You'd have to get a civil rights attorney. And I've looked into getting a civil rights attorney to see if my case.

has any merit, but it's very hard to find one that doesn't take a retainer. Like, I don't have any money left. And most of them are like, well, it's $10,000 to $20,000 retainer. I'm like, yeah, but you see ads that say no upfront cost and I know how it works. You just would get a higher percentage. Like, okay, if we're successful, you get 50%. But then I don't have to come up with money up front, like on contingency basis. and then I was talking to a couple other friends of mine that are attorneys and they're like nobody does contingency basis anymore.

It's very, very hard to find somebody who would take that case on a contingency basis. So sometimes I think about it, like, well, maybe I should make some phone calls. Maybe I should do some research to see if I can find an attorney who's willing to take the case on a contingency basis. It would help out a lot, but I'm not there yet. So what ends up happening to your criminal case? So it was, I took a plea deal because I ran out of money and the plea deal was supposed to be six months in jail, five years probation. And that's what my lawyer's like, look, it's, I talk them down from a lot. This is the best it could do.

You're not going to get out of this. They, for some reason, they want you in jail. he's I it's it's that's what you need to prepare yourself for and I was kind of like okay I think I could do do I don't know whether I think I can or not I'm going to have to and then this was in like September and somebody mentioned just kind of off the cuff they're like oh wow you're going to be in jail for Christmas and that's when it hit me that for the first time of my kid's life I wouldn't be there on Christmas or his birthday because I would I was in prison you know I'd be in jail and that was hard and I went to my pastor and we were praying a lot about it and he's like well you know and that was really

you know we did a lot of work on that and he's like you know you should stop by and meet with the we have a prayer team and you should meet with them and they'll pray for you as well and it's so funny I think a prayer team is like these people that are like in like swat uniforms with crosses I like prayer team and they're just a bunch of church people that volunteer to pray for people and I met with them and we prayed and prayed and it was supposed to be the next day that I was supposed to go and sign the plea deal and then process from there and my attorney had called me and said, okay, you know, we had discussed all the details. The DA is going to send over the plea deal.

And then you'll come and meet me tomorrow at the courthouse and we'll sign it. And then, you know, it'll be there. Okay. And then all of a sudden, like, the next morning, he was that, that, no, that evening he calls me. He's like, I just got the plea deal. You need to meet me at the courthouse. tomorrow at 8.30 in the morning. They don't open until 9.

As soon as the door's open, we need to get in there and sign this. And he's like, I don't know what freaking happened. But the plea deal we agreed on said six months in jail. And that's what I was expecting. And I check my email and I get this plea deal to print. And it says 840 hours of community service instead of jail time. And he's like, I don't know what happened. I don't know.

I don't know what happened. But I'm not going to ask any questions. I want you to get your signature on this before they notice. Like maybe for once the mistake will actually happen in your favor. Maybe it was a mistake. Maybe the computer problems are now working in my direction. Or maybe it was the prayer team. But, you know, I get in there.

And the DA's prosecutor was livid. He was screaming. He was yelling. He was. and then my lawyer started screaming and he's like this is not the deal that I agreed to. I had four different plea deals written up. They sent the wrong one, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then my attorney started yelling and then they had to call the medic because he has high blood pressure and they thought he might stroke out.

But he was basically like, look, whether this is what you intended or not, this is the one you sent to me and your name's on it. Are you going to be a man of your word? Or do all of us defense attorneys have to wonder when we get something with your name? on it whether or not we should really trust it and believe it like are you going to be a man of honor what are we doing here so in the end he's he agreed to it he's like okay fine but if you even look at me the wrong way i'm going to throw this in the garbage and i was just like so and my attorney's like oh you have the right to remain silent what you lack is the ability please for once shut up don't say anything i'm like okay and so we signed it and that was how i feel like i

slipped through their fingers. And whether it was a miracle or whether it was a computer mistake, now I was sentenced to five years probation and 840 hours of community service. And that was in September. And the sentencing was supposed to be in October. But then they postponed it and then they postponed it. And then they kept postponing it, postponing it, postponing it, postponing it. So finally, like in April, like, April, like, you.

This is like eight months now. I call my lawyer. I'm like, what is going on here? He's like, well, they're playing games. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, well, what they're basically, what it seems like they're doing is by postponing your sentencing, you're kind of in limbo. I can't complete my probation until I finish my community service. I can't start my community service until I'm sentenced.

So if they keep postponing the sentencing, now a five-year probation, has turned into almost six years. So I'm like, well, can they do legally, can they do that? And he's like, well, do you have the money to fight them on it? I'm like, no. Like, what are you going to do about it? Take them to court? Like, you know, so he's like, look, I'm going to tell them that they cannot postpone it.

If they, I'm just going to say, look, if you postpone this one more time, we're going to pursue civil action charges, whatever. And like, okay. And luckily, that seemed to do it. So then by June, this past June, I was sentenced. And I started my community service. And what do you do now? What's going on in your life? I'm working on my community service.

I'm about 100 hours away from completing it. I did a lot of voter registration as my community service, which is good because I would have done that anyway. Because, you know, like, I'm like, oh, I'm a felon now. I've lost some of my civil rights that I never even really appreciated. I kind of took them for granted. And one of them was the right to vote. And I never realized how much that meant to me until after I lost it or thought I could lose it. And then, you know, I moved to a state where they do allow felons to vote as long as you're not currently incarcerated.

So, you know, once you are released, felons can vote in some states. I think it's a couple of states. I don't remember which ones off the time. I think it's like eight states, eight or 11 states where felons can vote. So I'm thankful for that. So then I asked my probation officer, I'm like, well, I'm going to do community service with this voter registration organization, nonpartisan. We don't care who you're voting for. We're just getting people registered to vote and educating people on the voting process.

So I got lucky that I got to spend a lot of the community service hours doing something that I truly, you know, really felt good about and really believed in. And then that ended on Election Day, of course. And now I'm doing community service through a couple of churches, you know, cleaning and mostly that. And, you know, trying to figure out once I'm done with my community service, how, what kind of way I can. start making some kind of living again. They took away your license, right? Yeah, my license was permanently revoked. So, you know.

Wouldn't you do it all again? You know, that's a really tough question because it becomes this circular argument or circular discussion. Would I do it again in New York? No. but if I wasn't in New York I wouldn't have had to do it

I mean other than maybe California like the reason I wouldn't have done it I wouldn't do it again in New York is not because of it's because I'm not from New York

and New York is a weird place it's like this bubble and the people there are different. Like they kind of live by a different moral code. And I think the reason why I wouldn't do it again is because I think that they kind of abandon people who help them a little too quickly and they don't think it's morally wrong to do so. For example, one of the first things I did after this all started was I have, I had. had a friend of mine when I'm you know there's like 20 people that I help that have stood by me helped me the best that they could within their ability they've donated like they helped me set up a give send go account for legal fees they would help do promotions to raise money for legal fund but there's only 20 of them and I feel bad saying this like when I

generalize about it, I don't mean those 20 people. But like one time my lawyer was like, I don't get it. You helped over 4,000 people keep their jobs. If each one of those people sent $50 to your give, send go account, I wouldn't need to send you a bill. Your legal fees would be covered. 50 bucks can't be too much to ask in exchange for you saving their career, saving their livelihood, saving their jobs. And it just doesn't seem right that you put so much on the line and you suffered so much to help them keep their jobs. And they've just kind of turned around and walked away without looking back.

And like, I think that those are the kind of people most New Yorkers are. And I know that sounds harsh. But, you know, all of those people, over 4,000 people. that we helped. And only 20 of them, 20 of them could be bothered to still reach out once in a a lot. How are you doing? How can I help?

Do you need anything? Well, I'm kind of running short. I don't know how I'm going to fill my gas tank. Let me send you some money. They'll send me 40 bucks. And I know these families and I know how much they make and they're not wealthy people. They're like, you know, I don't expect them to send me $1,000. They're helping me to the best at their ability.

But what's frustrating is if everybody I helped took a little bit of that. Like maybe I can help her out a little bit now that she's sort of like when they needed me, I helped them. But now that I need help, they can't be bothered. And I don't judge them for it as being like an intentional thing. I just think that when you grow up, up in New York with the kind of society that's there, you just don't see that as a thing that people do. And I didn't realize that until I left New York and got away from it, that it's like, oh, yeah,

the way people treat people in New York is not normal. And the way people outside New York treat each other, oh, yeah, I remember this from 20 years ago before I moved there. this is how normal people treat people, you know. So I wouldn't do it again for New Yorkers. But if I was in a place with the kind of normal good people that I'm surrounded with now, it would be really hard to resist that temptation of helping people. But then it's a circular argument because the thing about living outside New York in normal, healthy places is people, people aren't being aren't put in that position you know there's so it's like oh yeah would I do it

again well not not in New York well what I do it again outside New York well I wouldn't have to because outside New York it's not that bad so what's the life lesson you want people to take away from hearing your story today I think the life lesson is that don't think you could never be in this position, that the way that our judicial system is trending, that what you wouldn't think would be a crime could become a crime, and to think that you would never be put in a position to trying to decide whether or not to break the law, I mean, I think it's pretty arrogant to think that you could never be in that position. you know, they're threatening to take your home, take your livelihood, feed your kids,

ostracize you, shun you. And it's not about, you know, what you can endure. It's about what they're going to do to your family. And now all of a sudden when you're facing a situation where you're like, we're going to make you do this thing. and you may not agree with it, but if you don't do it, we're going to take away your family's livelihood.

We're going to ostracize them. We're going to shun them. We're going to punish them. Now all of a sudden you're like, you know what? I think I'm just going to keep my head down and keep doing this thing that I feel is wrong. Or you say, no, I'm not going to keep doing this thing anymore. I mean, look at it with speech.

Like podcasting and, how quickly there were certain topics that you're like, well, I can't talk about that. I'm not saying you. I'm saying in general, you know, there were certain topics. We will not question this because if we do, we'll get demonetized.

We might get audited for our taxes. Like, you know, the journalists like that push back Owen Schroier and, you know, OMG, was it, Vice, was it, yeah, Project Veritas, those journalists that kept speaking out, and then all of a sudden they're, you know, arrested or their, the IRS shows up to audit, like, the government will have ways of punishing people who step out of line and to be arrogant enough to think that you would never be pushed to step out of line. I think people should.

The takeaway is they should think very long and carefully about how much they would be willing to give up to avoid breaking the law and where their line in the sand is. Julie, I appreciate you coming on the show today. Thanks. Thanks for telling your story so incredibly. And I'm glad you came and we got to do this. Yeah. How do you feel?

Nervous. Yeah. Well, you did really good. Yeah. I think you told your story very well. All right. I think the people are going to love it. I hope so.

And your husband, too. Poor guy. The biper.