Locked In with Ian Bick - Ex Prison Guard Exposes the Mental Toll of 10 Years Behind Bars | Scott Nagle

Episode Date: December 26, 2024

Scott Nagle opens up about his 10 years working as a prison guard and the mental health toll it took on him. In this episode, Scott shares the harsh realities of life inside the prison system from the perspective of a corrections officer. He discusses the challenges of the job, the emotional weight of the environment, and how it impacted his mental health over the years. Scott's story provides an eye-opening look at the often-overlooked struggles faced by those working behind bars. #PrisonGuard #LifeBehindBars #MentalHealthStruggles #PrisonReality #TrueStories #CorrectionsOfficer #MentalHealthAwareness #10YearsInPrison Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Scott Nagle: IG: https://www.instagram.com/scottnagle8?igsh=MTdxOTB3ajZlNDF1Yw== TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@blessed4sure0?_t=8sLoyMU05zm&_r=1 Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Road Trip Stories with Scott and Son 00:07:12 Growing Up in a Troubled Environment 00:12:42 Making the Decision Not to Attend College 00:18:48 Changes in Hiring Processes in 2023 00:24:32 Navigating a Career in Corrections 00:31:28 Experiences in High-Level Correctional Facilities 00:36:54 Challenges in the Correctional System 00:42:55 Navigating First Altercations as a Corrections Officer 00:48:38 Challenges of Being a Correctional Officer 00:54:43 Ethical Dilemmas in Law Enforcement 01:01:06 Police Interrogation and False Accusations 01:07:03 The Impact of Crime on Law Enforcement Jobs 01:12:35 Coping with PTSD in a Challenging Work Environment 01:18:13 Overcoming Personal Trauma and Stress 01:24:05 Navigating Prison Culture and Maintaining Integrity 01:30:34 The Importance of Therapy and Rehabilitation 01:36:15 Gratitude and Farewell Wishes Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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at United VanLines.com. Scott, welcome to Lockton. Drove from Ohio. How was the ride up? Beautiful, beautiful. Me and my son, Jackson, we drove like a little over 10 hours. Never been this way. And we were going to fly, but it was, there was, the flights were crazy, you know, a lot of layovers. So I said, hey, it's, you know, going to be a beautiful day or whatever. So we drove yesterday, but yeah, it was great. Nice and peaceful. It's so cool, this new world. Like when I was. growing up, you don't drive with your dad to go do a podcast.

There was none of that, you know. It's funny because I kept looking at him and he was on his phone. And I'm like, dude, I told him, I was like, dude, you know how lucky you are? Like, we'd have coloring books. And then when it got dark, what do you think we do, man? Nothing, you know, so. Yeah, all those car rides grown up, we didn't have phones. Yeah, we didn't have nothing.

Like coloring books. We had the little maybe DVD players and video games. Yeah, but I mean, it was, I literally said that to him like, dude, you were So lucky. And then the car, you know, we rented the car, so I didn't have to put the miles on mine. But do the thing drives itself. Would you get a Tesla? No, it's a Volvo. Oh, an electric. Oh, those are nice. And I was like, dude, this is luxury because we're supposed to be like an audio or something. It's like, what's going to give you a little bit more room? I'm like, but it's luxury. He was like, yeah, I'm like, a Volvo's luxury. He was like, and I've seen it. I was like,

oh, yeah, this is luxury. You know, so, but it was, yeah, it was a great ride, man. That's awesome. Good bonding time for me and my son. That's great. And he gets to listen to this episode, too. Oh, yeah, yeah. Did you grow up in Ohio? So I'm originally from Toledo, Ohio. Okay. So, yeah, I grew up in Toledo. I was there for probably, I think since until I was like 14, I think it was 14 years old, moving back and forth.

So I've been between Toledo and Dayton, you know, in between, I think, like middle school or I was elementary and then high school. and then I ended up graduating from day in, but my junior and freshman year, I was back in Toledo. So my mom, you know, with her, my stepdad at the time, you know, just kind of moving back and forth trying to work things out. So what did your parents do for work? So my mom, growing up, so actually my stepdad was, or not I'm sorry, not a step, but my dad was killed when I was seven.

My mom's boyfriend killed him. And crazy, dude, yeah. So my mom, you know, I guess they said my dad had mental issues or whatever, which I'm sure if they could diagnose him. I'm sure he did. But so, you know, my dad cheated on my mom and, you know, my mom followed for divorce, what she should have did. And then, you know, my mom tried to move on. And then my dad, you know, would wait outside for her boyfriend every day and beat him up. And finally, you know, kind of got sick of it and ended up killing him. Wow. And he didn't do no time. He got self-defense for it. So, you know, it's crazy because you grow up in that environment.

I remember, like me and I have an older brother that passed away. And I remember that we would, I mean, like I said, we were broke. So we would, sorry. But we would be, you know, I remember when we all had a share of bed, like me and my mom. my older brother. And I remember one that we were sleeping and somebody knocked on the window. And the bed was like to the headboard was like to the window. So we opened it up and my dad jumped through it.

You know, he jumped through the screen. And he went after my mom's boyfriend at the time, which and then a couple weeks later, whatever. That's when he ended up getting killed because he did the same thing. But the dude ended up pulling a gun on and killing him. Wow. So. So my, so yeah, my dad, you know, he was dead when I think I was seven.

And then my mom, she's always, I mean, she's done things like work out of cartilier of shit. She's done a majority of her work when we were younger, like serving, working as a bartender. You know, and for the past 15 years, I think she's been cleaning houses and stuff, you know, and works for herself. What was it like to lose your dad at that age? So to be honest with you, it was when you're so young, you don't realize, you only kind of like realize like the little memories you had, which were like good things. You know, like you can only see the good, but, you know, I guess him jump through the window.

But it was really hard for us because my dad saw the family. blame my mom for that. You know? So I remember going to the funeral and they were trying to fight my mom because they blamed her because her boyfriend's one that did it. And the whole thing was like it wasn't her fault. He cheated. They got divorced. You know what I'm saying?

So even to this day, you know, even to this day, you know, we don't have any relationship with that side of the family. Which is unfortunate, man, because, I mean, this was years ago. And, you know, you want your name to carry on, which I. I, you know, occasionally I'm not on social media or whatever, but, you know, my family is. My mom's the family and, you know, I can see that they're doing well. You know, I only wish the best for them. I don't hold any grudges or anything like that. But for us, you know, they were more successful on that side of the family, you know, like my uncles and my aunts and my grandparents.

But, yeah, it was really tough because there was like this divide. You know, my older brother before he passed away, he got in some trouble. and, you know, we asked, you know, for some legal finances like to help. And, you know, they said it makes our name look bad. So they didn't want to help them. They didn't want to help? No. So he ended up catching a vehicular homicide, my brother that passed away, got to a bar fight,

and ended up running somebody over and killing him. And, you know, it's just, yeah, like, so we went to them and asked for help, you know, financial help. And they said, you know, they didn't say that it makes her name look, but we just kind of figured like, hey, like, you know, it's like your family. It's like your, it's your, you know, your family's like your, your brother or your son's son. Like, why wouldn't you help them? You know, and it, yeah, so there hasn't been any, um, yeah, I haven't, we haven't really communicated. I haven't communicated that side of the family for a long time. And like I said, I think that they're doing well.

And I am so happy for them. You know, everything happens for a reason. And hopefully, you know, with my kids, you know, eventually they'll reach out. I know my brother that passed away, his kids, they live up there, you know, probably 10, 15 minutes from them. So they end up, I think, once in a while getting together. How old are you when your brother went through the criminal justice system? So I was, so I'm trying to think. So I went through, I was going through, you said how old was I?

Yeah, what were you when that happened to him? Oh, so my brother, so growing up, growing up in Toledo, man, there was, he was in and out of, like, kind of doing like small stuff. But, I mean, it started when we were young, like, probably like 11, 12 years old. Like, gangs were bad in Toledo. And so I'd say anywhere from like 11, 12 years old, he was doing stuff that he pulled me into it, you know, because, you know, I wasn't about. certain things, but like if anything ever happened to him, I'm like, well, man, he asked me to be there and something happened to him and I wasn't there for him, you know? So, I'd say we're real young, but I said he'd probably call his, like, first, like, like, misdemeanor or sold or something.

Probably, like, when he was, like, 18 or 19. But he had, like, a lot of, like, disorderlies and just kind of minor stuff, hitting runs, like, you know, taking our mom's car and running, and smashing into somebody and then leaving the scene. Nobody was heard or whatever, but I remember one time the cops came, you know, because he used my name. You know, they used to, I'm like, well, what do you mean? They're like, weren't you, you know, well, you were just in this ad. I'm like, so. But when it was, well, so he got locked up.

He did six months for that vehicular homicide. They tried to get him for aggravated, but they ended up, he ended up going to trial and they got him for, or, yeah, just for hickler. So we did six months, but I was going through the Fire Academy. And, you know, I wanted to do something because I wasn't really hands-on. Or I was more hands-on than, like, Book Smart. And, you know, so when I was going through that, I graduated through the Fire Academy, but I had too many driving points on my record.

So after I graduated from the Fire Academy, they wouldn't hire me because I couldn't drive, you know, the ambulance, whatever, because I had six points on my license. Oh, wow. So, and I'm drumping around, sorry, bro, if you got to wheel me back in. Yeah, but how old are you when that happened with your brother? So what do you call that behavior? I was 20. 20 years old.

Yeah. Okay. So you did have experience with, like, the criminal justice system on that side before you ever even worked in. On the negative side of it. Yeah, but it was still the criminal justice system. Yeah. Like, yeah, so growing up where I grew up, you know, a lot of my friends had a family remember that done, I think, close to 20 years, like an uncle mine that did like 20 years in prison.

He's the one that told me about corrections. He said, you've seen it from this side and I'm going there and get that good money and that, you know, that good insurance to take care of your family, you know. And this is like when the recession hit back in like early, like, or maybe it was like mid-2000s. And he said, go back, you know, going there and they're hiring. And he knew about it because he was locked up. So, yeah, that's how I heard about getting into that type of feel. And I I figured never be boring. So, you know. Were you getting into trouble at all, like your brother growing up?

I was, but I was more into like sports and stuff. So a lot of the trouble I would get into, I got into a lot of fights, man. And so I'm dyslexic. So I read stuff backwards, they say. So actually, when I was going to school, when they diagnosed me that in like elementary school or whatever, they sent me to a school, which was on, I'm from the west of Toledo. and just say that the school that I went to was on the opposite side. So, and I was, I was a minority going, you know, which I was living in Toledo at the time like where we were. It's like, you know, it was pretty mixed.

But when you go to a school where you're not from that, you know, side of town, you know, I used to get, I mean, they used to chase me down and beat me up like almost like probably every other day. Oh, so you're a pig town a lot. Oh, dude, like because, well, and I was out, you know, I think being white and being on the opposite side of, you know, on the other side of Toledo where they knew I wasn't from there. But that's the only place I offered the classes, so I had to go over there. And so, yeah, you could say that I guess I got, I wouldn't say, I guess you could say bullied, but I got tested a lot, you know. And I didn't have anybody over there because my brother and all of our friends were, you know, on the west side of Toledo. and I was going over here because that's the only place that offered the special classes or whatever. Do you think that mindset of getting bullied, you know, carried over into your corrections career?

I think it triggered it. Matter of fact, I think 100% it triggered it. So growing up, you know, you don't think, like in your environment, you know, it is what it is. If you're fighting or getting picked down or whatever every day, it's just like your mentality, that's what it is. You know, and then when you grow up, you look back like, you know. but I think for me, my brother was a year older and, you know, stealing like car radios

and, you know, stuff like that. Like, I would be with them and our friends, like, you know, the first time we were stole a car radio, you know, I was probably like 12 or 13 years old. And so things like that, you know, it was it was,

I guess I was part of it, but I wasn't. You know what I'm saying? I was more like to watch. watch out guy. So do you end up graduating high school? Yeah. You graduate high school? So I graduated. Yep. So I graduated high school. Don't go to college and go straight to the fire. Yep. So, yeah, so I graduated high school and then I didn't go to college because I know I probably want to do good, you know, being dyslexic. I don't want to get beat up. No, I'm just kidding. Do you wish you went to college now, good looking back on it? Certain aspects I do. Like, certain aspects, like I know a lot of millionaires, right, that didn't go to college. But for certain fields, I wish that, if, I want to know what I know now.

Like, I'm in the construction business now, you know, I'm a project manager. And but knowing what I know now, I think for the experience, like, I was a big, I was big in the sports. And not saying that I could have played college ball or anything like that, but where I'm from, like, I didn't, my mom worked two or three jobs her whole life. And she would come to the games, but I never had anybody tell me like, hey, man, like, if you go and you're good and you play, like, you can go and get a scholarship and, you know. so for stuff like that I didn't know you know like I didn't know that was a thing so you kind of just go day by day and I mean sports was my passion you know I played all the way through high school I played a couple years of semi pro or whatever but um it was if I could yeah I wish I could have you know maybe for the sports aspect of it if I could have just got maybe a shot or you know maybe just that lot but I think it was just so far from the way way that I grew up, that college was even a thought. Why the fire department? Just because it was hands on.

And I'm not being on heights at all. And it's funny because I'm like, you know, if somebody's in a burning building, if somebody's in a burning building, you're adrenaline. You know, you got that fighter flight mode. Well, I know if something's happening, you're going to get up that ladder and, you know, and you're going to save somebody because somebody's up there. Well, for corrections, it was like the same thing. What I learned down in the future and just kind of give an example, like,

you know, I was a training officer, but they said that I can teach you how to do your job and turn keys, but I can't teach it. If you see somebody getting stabbed in the neck, that you're going to go and help them. You know, that's, that's in here. It's not, you know. So it's like the same thing for the Fire Academy. That's why I went and did, that's why I went through that because I figured that, that would be a good career arm.

It's hands-on. Where I would succeed because the majority it was hand- USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and side-dicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usaa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. Oh no. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away,

All through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Save up to 30% your first year at LifeLock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. Hands out and I thought at the time. Did you have any family in law enforcement first responders? Anything like that? No.

Wow. So you just went solo, dolo out there. Interesting. Yeah. So you get kicked out of the, or you don't make it to the Fire Academy. No, so I graduated and man, it was like, I was really proud and, you know, like, I felt like I did something. And the thing is, is I was really, it was really crazy because they put that ladder up like

100 feet over the parking lot, dude. Like the first day. And I'm like, oh, man, like, I thought it was going to have a heart attack, dude. And people are like, oh, I can't wait to get up it. And I'm like, well, this is the first day. And, man, I'm like, Lord, please, man, like, help me. Like, help me. And all of a sudden started lightning.

So they had to bring it down. So only a few people went up there. So I end up going and graduating and ended up doing it. But it was the worst time in the world because every day you thought about it. Why didn't they have to do it again all the way up until you graduate? So that whole time I'm thinking about every day and it's just weighing on anxiety when I, if I could have dead the next day, just got it done over with. So that makes sense. Yeah.

So, but that's why I chose the fire department because it was hands. on. And I knew like being in law enforcement, that wasn't even crossed my mind because I, you heard stories that they do like, I wasn't really worried about the background checks, but I was more worried about like the polygraph tests. So. It's interesting that they kicked you out because of the license. Like, couldn't they have stuck you somewhere else that you didn't need to operate the vehicles? So that's why I was thinking like, why won't you tell me that before I went through this stuff? But I think each, each city might be. be different. But if somebody calls off, you know, and you can't do everything that another person can do, then it would hold you, you know. And this wasn't like, this was probably in 2003. And you're like at 1920-ish? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that happens. How long after, do you wait until you get into the corrections shop? So it was probably, I'm thinking,

within a year. Within a year. Okay. And that's when you saw that, your friend or you're at, the advertisement or whatever. So actually my stepdad at the time, he was in a horse business and he was trained horses. So he knew a guy that was a warden. So I told, yeah, so my uncle that was telling me about this stuff, you know, he was talking about it. And then when I was telling, I was telling my mom, my stepdad, like, you know,

I wanted to do it. And he was like, well, I know some. My stepdad was like, I know somebody that used to be a warden at this prison. So that's how I end up, you know, I was like, Oh, real, like, you know, cool. But the reason I'm thinking about getting into it was because it's never going to be born. They heard the pay was great, you know, like great benefits. Like, oh, yeah.

And it's, it's going to be exciting. It's not going to be like a normal job where you're doing dishes or something. Yeah. So what was that process like once you signed up? Oh, do you do? It was a background checks, dude. Like, I mean, it was so, it was, it took over a little bit over a year to actually start. But from the time that they, from the time that you get hired or felt the application to the process of you actually working, you know, getting a uniform and starting your OJT, which it was probably a year.

So because they do all the background checks and it was so like you thought you were going for the FBI or CIA or something. That's how, I mean, maybe it wasn't like that, but that's the way that I felt like, you know, back then. But. And you were telling me earlier that it's not like that at all. Now. Now. Yeah. They got signs out front talking about hiring, come now.

You know, like, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's so crazy that, yeah, how much it's completely 360 on the hiring process to now. Did you have to take a polygraph or anything like that? Not for that. And are you firearm trained before you start the job, too? So what they do is, so when you, when you, they'll give you a start date, right after everything to say, okay, you're going to report. And you'll go to your institution for two weeks, the cold on. on OJT, which is on the job training, you'll go there for two weeks and they'll, you'll do like classroom work and then they're going to walk you around and to make sure that this is what

you want to do. Like, they'll put you through it because they want to make sure that they're about to put all this money into you for training. You know, they don't want to put all this training into you and then, you know, you quit. So they want you to get live and get, you know, not live, but they walk you through with an officer for two weeks and put you in situations where you're back in the hole and in the child hole and because you're out there like, you know, and some people may think they want to do it until you're sitting in front of all, you know, 3,000 inmates and they're all looking at you like,

you know, you're a piece of meat. Are they bringing you to a maximum security or like a low security for that first walkthrough? So what you do is you apply and you can apply back then. It was you applied online, but you could apply and you could put like where you're closest to. There's a lot of prisons in Ohio. So you could apply which one of you. You wanted, you could put like three, you know. You could put one, but if you wanted, like me, I really wanted to get hired because I'm like, man, I was about to have a kid, my first kid.

I'm like, this is going to be, this could be great. Make me feel like I did something. And so they hired me for the prison that I applied to. So it happened to be a close max prison, which it's, it's low security to you. Like we have like a camp, you know, where you have people like, I mean, misdemeanor stuff, you know, you had a camp over there, people that were getting knocked down, that were getting ready to go home, or they've been locked up forever, that they would send them over the camp. So we had level four inmates, and then we had minimal inmates. But we were close. So we were,

we were the disciplinary camp. We got all the riffraff that didn't behave at other institutions. No, you were just saying you applied wanting to get the job to feel like it was a sense of accomplishment to have something. Do you feel like if you didn't have that childhood trauma between losing your dad and getting picked on and everything that, and maybe not even getting into the fire department, then, you know, you wouldn't have picked that career? No, because I didn't realize, I didn't realize until you get into that environment. Like, like, growing up and being around my brother that would get into a lot of trouble,

like, you know, he's a type of dude like look for fights and just look. I never wanted to be in that stuff. I was kind of like scared, you know, because I'm like, dude, you don't even know. And, but I always had to be with him because I never wanted anything to happen to him. Like, let me give you an example. Like, he used to throw these parties, man.

My mom would be at work, and I remember one day, I just got off football practice, and I'm sitting on my love seat, like I'm sitting here, like, looking just like it's crazy because the front door is over there. And dude, like, he has, like,

40 people just start walking to the house and they all got red on. Like, and I'm like, dude, what are you doing? And he said, I'm not to the old party downstairs. I'm like, dude, what are you? Are you dumb? You don't even know these dudes? And my uncle at the time, which is my mom's brother,

he was like the father figure, you know what I'm saying? And he's a Marine and he was an alcoholic or whatever, which, I mean, he was real tough on us, but I give a lot of credit to the man I am today because of how tough he was on us. you know, but he would, we would get in trouble at school, and they would call him. You know, we had like a dean that was black. And he's like, oh, I'm just going to call your uncle, man.

He let him swear. I'm like, oh, my uncle, like, hey, I see him when y'all get home, you know. But my brother would throw these parties, man, and he wasn't even thinking about the consequences. I'm like, dude, you know, if her uncle comes home, dude, we're going to get. So I remember they were walking through when I grabbed a gun out of the closet and just put under the seat, like under the love seat where I was sitting and me and my brother kind of warging a little bit like dude what do you like what you're just letting me these people you don't even know these people and uh I got a call somebody called me and said that um I think my mom was coming home or something so I told them

so they all left and like dude you got to get them out of here so they all rushed out of the house man and like 20 30 minutes later um my brother comes running back and he you know I hear sirens and I'm like I'm like and he goes downstairs in the basement and he's like hi I'm like what dude what are you doing he's like dude we just left when we left there was some dude that was walking with his

kid's sister from the video store and he ended busting this 40 bottle over his head man and I'm like or I'm like dude why didn't you like you didn't do anything he was a dude I said something but like they turned on me you know and it was just at that time like thinking like dude like how dumb are you like you just had these people, a brother and sister were just walking from the video store. You know what I'm saying?

And they just busted a beer bottle over this dude's head for no reason. You know, like, so a lot of the situations I think that as a kid I was like kind of scared like, I don't want to be in them. You know, my mom was in a lot of abusive relationships. There was like a lot of violence, I guess, growing up. So, yeah, so there was like a lot of. So, so I guess, growing all that negativity, you try to get as far away from them as you can, which I guess kind of sounded funny when you're working corrections. Yeah, it almost like it kind of like attracted you to it. Like, um, and maybe it did because I didn't, I was just in my head, I'm thinking like, well, it's never going to be boring. And I'm going to be good at it because I'm not going to judge

people. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm going to go in there and I'm going to treat these people like normal people because like my uncle said, I was living that side of the world. You I'm saying? Like, I was out here in the streets and like, you know, so, I mean, my mom used to give plasma for us to eat. You know, so it was like struggling and doing what you had to do to survive. And so I knew I wasn't going to go in there and be better than anybody, you know. But it was funny because people used to ask me, Officer Nagel, like, why are you even here doing this? And I'm like, oh, because on the street, I'm a piece of crap, but I'm here, dude, I'm on top of my game, you know. You ain't got to try hard to be, you know. I would just joke around with them, whatever, but I think that that's, yeah, I was just looking for a good opportunity because I wanted to do something that mattered. And I'm not saying corrections was going to make it matter, but working for the state of Ohio, making good money and having insurance was huge. You know, because I never had that, I don't think.

You know, not knocking, you know, my mom. My mom did an amazing job, you know, she raised us by, you know, herself. And she did the best that she could do. but I never had that. Like I said, even in sports, I never had anybody tell me like, hey, man, if you really put into this, man, you can go to college and, you know, so it was still like, yeah, I didn't realize I think it triggered something in me. When you were in that training facility during the walkthrough,

was there any moment where you're like, oh, shit, why did I sign up for this? So, no, because you were feeling like you got test. So you were in there and people are looking at you. and they're trying to scare you off, I think, you know. And in the beginning, no, when I first got in there, I didn't think that. You know, they used to have these scared straight things. And they made my brother go to him, like, when we were younger. Like, he got in trouble with, like, Gordon, David.

And I remember, I was scared to death. Like, and he was in her laughing. Like, and this was in Lucas County Jail in Toledo. And, dude, he was laughing. And I'm, like, I'm thinking, like, I mean, these dudes are talking, they were getting ready to go to, like, you know, actually the penitentiary. They're just waiting to get rode out from county to a penitent. Like, and they, they were on the sixth floor.

And dude, dude, these dudes are talking crazy. Talking about going up, you know, in this dude with long hair. And he's, and my brother's laughing. Like, yeah, what? And I'm like, dude, if I get a tick, I'm going here. You know, like, my mentality was a lot different than his, you know. And so I think that, I think that, you know, going in that environment, I knew kind of what it was going to be.

Yeah, I was looking more like, man, I want to provide a good living for my family. So once you graduate and make it through, where did they send you first? So let me just throw this in there. So I guess also growing up, like being in childhood, and maybe this is what kind of triggered it to like the whole, you know, like the pedophile thing. But so me and my brother used to get, we had this babysitter man that would lock us in this basement. And I guess her kids were up there like assaulting. you know, kids up there, man. They were, like, using, like, broomsticks.

And, like, that never happened to us, I think, because maybe we were a little bit older, like we were nine or ten. But they would lock us in the basement. And, you know, my parents didn't know this stuff until the cops came for the other parents, you know, like getting called because I guess they found, that's how they found out something was happening to their kids. So that's when they realized that we were getting locked in the basement. So I think that maybe in the,

As you think about this stuff, and I don't know, but maybe that was trauma that you didn't think about it. And I remember that the babysitter would throw us like olive loaf sandwiches, bro, down in the basement. Like, disgusting. And, like, I ain't ever ate no olive loaf. And I don't think, you know, we'd eat it then. I remember me and my brother would eat ants. Like, we were locked in this, but we'd eat ants, like, kind of. Not because we thought it was going to be feeling, whatever, but that's just a thing I remember.

Like, being locked in that basement. and, you know, I remember the cops one day, and my mom picked us up. My dad was still alive at that time. So it's like a real vivid memory because I was young. But, yeah, they sent us to all these weird, like, classes to see if we were, I guess, touched or whatever. I said we were never, they were up there doing to the younger kids, I guess. And you never reported it or anything? Oh, no.

So we didn't, because we didn't think anything. We're just getting locked in the basement, you know, like they're throwing us olive loaf sandwiches, just down there like and they just left us down there you know and uh you know i remember sitting the top of the steps and like looking under the light um uh sorry um but i don't know if if that had something to do with like you know the i guess where my mental state was the year later that makes sense but yeah i just remember getting locked in that basement and that stuff and then look down to the door, like, where you can see, like, the light or whatever, but. Looking to start 2026 with an unforgettable getaway.

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Yeah So those Those types of memories You carried with you When you got into corrections You would think about it But not really But I think that's what really triggered it

You start looking back And it's like if you go to counseling Like I've been to counseling a couple times From marriage I've been in a few marriages But You know it's like You and your wife could be getting along great

And then you go to counseling And it's like Oh this stuff's getting brought up We had a great week On Monday through Thursday But Friday we're going to counseling And all this stuff is getting brought back up that happened three weeks ago or a week ago and it kind of stirs it back up

and i think people say we got to kind of work to what you just don't want to bury it but in order it worked it you got to dig it up you know so i think maybe it was buried or i wasn't thinking about it but working situations and hearing hearing stories and reading people's you know their jackets and and like inmates and things like that and talking to like victims i think maybe it yeah maybe it true i i don't know to be honest with you yeah yeah So that first facility they send you to, what was that? As in... Once you get through graduation, you're on the job.

So it was, it was, like, what do you mean? Like, what level was it? Where did they send you? Oh, yeah, Lehmun Correctional. And what is that? It's a, it's a level four closed camp, which means you don't walk outside. Like, you know, some institutions you have like the, well, you have. even like schools, I guess, where you could walk from one building, go underneath the walkway.

A closed camp is where you're under the roof. You know, there's no, the inmates are inside unless they're in the yard. Did you feel good walking in there that first day? Like that you were confident about that you could do the job? I thought that, yeah, because, you know, if you've seen one tough guy, I guess you kind of seen them all. But not 3,000 at once, you know. But I think that I was just kind of like, I was more intrigued to see, because you hear stories.

I said this time my brother was actually, my brother was actually locked up. So as I'm going through the academy, he's actually locked up. And, you know, and then my uncle, that he's passed away now, but listen to his stories. And I had friends that have been locked up. You know, you hear stories about to actually be in there and seeing it for yourself. And being in county, you know, compared to being into, you know, a prison, just like being in a federal prison is completely different than being in a state prison, you know. It was, I think it was more shocked to just, you are like what the heck, because once some gates close behind you, you're in there for eight hours. You know, there's no walking outside, you know, to do another post.

It's like you're under one under that roof. Well, it's the most shocking thing for you, those first few days. like those initial days on the job. I would say how much mass movement there was. Like when you see all these, you know, convicts like going down the hallway, how many are in the hallway at one time?

Like, you know, because you have to have mass movement. But I think that was like one of the things that were like, oh, man, like these are, you know, they have another prison that's Lucasville that's, you know, high up and then like OSP, which is like a Supermax. So like I said, we had,

I mean, you didn't go to Lebanon for, you know, majority of people that were 11 men for were doing violent crimes and stuff like that, you know. But looking at that mass movement and knowing like, man, there was like six officers out here standing like a thousand inmates. you know, that was, that was, yeah, that was kind of like, holy crap. Did you feel in danger?

You don't feel, maybe, maybe not in danger, but kind of like, you know, uneasy. I think that, you know, I said maybe, I would say like this, I felt like, well, the only reason we go home is because I let us. Because there's nothing you can do, like, you know, in a situation like that, whether it's 10 on one, you know, like the ratio from corrections, officers to, to, you know, inmates, whatever was, I mean, ridiculous. I think it was like 30 or 40 to one, you know, but yeah, you can definitely feel there's, yeah, you can definitely feel like certain situations where like you could be in date, you know. Were there a lot of other young officers fresh out of the academy with you? Yeah. So let me tell you like this. So I guess the process to get, so when you go.

When you go to, like, they'll have other officers with you. And, yeah, there was a lot of young, there was a lot of young officers there that are, you know, just naive, dude. And that are from, like, you know, these little, these little suburban towns where they're not used to diversity. And, you know what I'm saying? Like, and they didn't understand. I remember one dude, it was like, oh, man, I hope they riot. And I'm like, what are you taught? And he was like, dude, I need the extra, like overtime.

And this kid's like 19, like, I mean, just a young. dude that just has no no clue about life, you know. And they said that, you know, when we were going through the academy, they said if you're going to Lebanon, you know, anything we train here at this facility, throw it out the window because it's completely different, you know. Like we would carry PRs, which are like the sticks. Yeah. And Mace and like a lot of institutions didn't carry those.

but because we were, you know, the, you know, the level that we were in the discipline of the camp, you know, we carried stuff like that. And it was just a lot different because you're dealing with a different type of inmate. Did you get to talk to some of those new, you know, co-workers about what their motivation was for joining corrections? Yeah. The money. It was all about across the board.

That's all like, yeah. Wow. And like I said, moving from Toledo to like the Dayton area, like I lived in a nicer area in, you know, the Dayton area like suburbs of Dayton. So a lot of these people like, you know, not saying all, but like the younger ones that are sticking out that you're asking, like, yeah, these younger dudes were. So, yeah, there was younger dudes that had no idea that were from like suburbs, you know, the suburbs. And that's what they were thinking about. Like, you know, you could tell they didn't have to worry about paying their bills, whatever.

Then you asked all I had dudes that like were, you know, that. that needed the money. So do you think that's a flaw in the criminal justice system? What? That you have a bunch of these young officers joining not because they're there to help people it just as a job and income and another day. I think that... Because I feel like a firefighter or a police officer will join the force,

most of them, because they want to help people. You know, it's funny you say that because this is the one thing I thought. You would think it would be like a brotherhood, especially in there. Like, dude, I could lose my life. You could lose your life, you know. And it was a far, now, let me tell you, there were some amazing officers in there, dude. Supervisors, like, I'm talking about, you know, some amazing, really good people that you knew that had your back, you know. But there was others that would freeze up and you'd have an inmate come, like, look out for, you know.

And but I think that it's hard to prepare somebody for that. And the whole thing is if you come into something, if you start a job and you're automatically, getting yelled at because they can you're on probation for a year right and if you want to make that probation um if you want to make that probation um it's like you got to kind of they could get ready for just the way you look you know and there's insecurity definitely in corrections you know what I'm saying where people don't run nothing at home so they come in there and they put that badge on and it's just like you know um well I've run stuff here so this is what I'm to do you know but I think that when you go in there, you're already looked upon.

Dude, I'll never forget it. I had this officer, man. He told me, he was like, oh, yeah, I heard about you. They put me in his block. And he said, oh, yeah, I heard about you. I'm like, oh, yeah, what did you hear? He was like, that you're scared. And I'm like, oh, really?

And these people don't know. They used to tell you, like, and this is me just saying, like, I think there's other things that you could do to help, correctional officers like to succeed instead of turning people against each other but it's like they look down on you until they told me you had to prove yourself you know and I'm like you want me to prove myself like what like getting to what within that's why they wanted you to fight with an inmate or get into it with an inmate until you prove you I'm like what so you want me to once I get roll around I know I got 30 other officers that's going to me proving myself you know like give me a break dude

you know like I'm not one of these dudes that you know but he's but this all officer that he's been there forever. That's what he said. He was like, oh, yeah, I heard you're scared. I'm like, yeah, that's why they put me with your old butt and this merit block, you know, to make sure that I'm safe. You know, it's just a mentality of people look down on you until you, and I'm like, dude, you don't even know. Like, this is your life. And I told somebody this one time, you know, a supervisor of mine. I said, you've got two things of water, right? And this is why I look at in corrections. Now, being a corrections officer, man, for people that do it, Dude, it's a tough job, man.

If you think about you're the police in there, right? And you are getting manipulated and people are testing you. And if you don't do something, like, you might as well quit because your day is going to be long. So if you go in and an officer looks at you or, you know, a supervisor looks at you like, oh, you ain't going to make it. Well, what would make anybody want to stay? You're already dealing. If you don't respect me and I work with you, you think that these other people, more respect me? No. And a lot of that, I think, happens. You get like a supervisor that will come in

and points you out or put you out there and say, hey, look, you're, you know, kind of like downtalk you. And once the inmates see them doing that, dude, you're getting no respect, you know. So I think that now not everybody like, dude, there were some really good officers there that, you know, on the job training officers that would really help and want people to, you know, It's just like anything. You know, if you get one back, that doesn't mean they're all bad, you know. And I think that in that environment, you would have thought that it was like the brotherhood, but it's not. People will tell on people to get motivated or to get to get promoted, you know.

And I think that that turns a lot of people off, you know. Now, we hear a lot of stories from inmates about how a new inmate would get tested by other inmates in prison. I think a lot of people don't realize that inmates will also test a new officer on the job. Oh, dude. What was your first experience getting tested? So I remember, you know, like the first time I ever got into, like I had a conversation. I don't even think I was actually on, I don't even think I was even training yet. Like, I was just on the job training.

Like, I wasn't even running a post yet. And so you have mass movement where you got all these inmates out, you know, coming from record from the child hole. And, you know, they had them like in. they had tiles and what you do is the tiles on the floor, you know, you have the wall and then you have these tiles. So what you do is you stand as mass movements coming, you as an officer would stand and look all the way down the hallway and your foot would be like on the outside of the tile and you would give these inmates, you know, just enough room to walk. Well, if you think about it, right, you got, you know, just say a thousand inmates walking towards you, okay? And they know you're new. They can see on your face like if you ain't ever been in that environment, they're looking at you like, dude.

what is this dude so though but they know if they bump you do that's assault dude like but they'll walk up to you and they'll kind of like look they'll say stuff they'll yell down like it's dude it's it's funny to get you look back at it now but being in a situation like that you got to have some type of you know craziness about your like or just complete complete like ignorance of like what could really happen you know and uh so i remember you know i was just standing in there because that's how it's on the job training. So they want to see how you're going to act, you know, towards when inmates test you. Well, this dude was looking me up and down and I said, hey, I said, come here.

I said, do you know me? He was like, no, do you know me? I'm like, no. I said, but the way that you're looking at me, dude, I could have swore like I owed you 10 bucks or something, you know. And like that was like my first altercation. But I still kind of felt uncomfortable because I was still trained. I didn't know what you could and couldn't do, you know.

But that was like my first, that was like my first, like, you know, to call somebody out. Because you got all these inmates that if one of them like, you know, disrespects you, they're going to go back to the block and say, hey, this new officer dude, hey, he ain't got no heart. You can do whatever you want in here, you know. So if you let that have him one time, he might as well quit. You know, so that was my, that was my first interaction. And then go figure at, you know, probably two years in, he ended up being an inmate that, you know, was a porter for me, which, you know, work for me and, you know, I guess as much as it could,

you could trust him to make sure that stuff was getting, whether he was running the phones or whatever, you know, that he would take care of that stuff. How long did it take for inmates to respect you and, you know, look up to you in a way? So one of the first, so back then when I when at that time, they could, if they would do like a freeze count. So you have 250 inmates to each block and you have two officers, okay? So you have three ranges and what they can do is they would freeze you. Like if your block is off the hook, if you got inmates running around, it's like unsafe. You know, so you're supposed to maintain that block. So one room, one level floor, whatever, one range would have the day room. So if the

second range has the day room, the first range and third range aren't supposed to be out of their cells unless they're, you know, going to take a shower or be on the phone. But besides that, if you're not signed up on that list, you know, you need to be in your cell. Well, you couldn't lock them in their cells because they said it was inhumane. So you had to have them have their doors at four inches, right? Now, it's 100 degrees. You got guys that are down, you know, that are in the day room that are supposed to be down there. But then you guys, you guys sneaking down, you know, that ain't even supposed to be down there. So I remember, you know, they would come around or like they'd have like a supervisor, lieutenant or captain would come in there and say freeze and they'd have a whole bunch of

COs with them and they would tell everybody to freeze and they would count how many people were out of place, you know? Well, they could find you and take money from your check. So it just got to a point that like I would tell the one of the first like, I guess, um, you know, you. You know, you. You conversations I had with an in-man. I'm like, check this out, dude. I said, I don't know if you know this, but like, let's just say we were on the street. And I was talking like six of his dudes. They were sitting in the day room. They were out of place. Oh, I'll go back to myself. Now, that's too easy. Go in here, have a seat here so I can explain to you. Because I plan on being here for a while. And I know that, you know, by what I heard, you've got like 15 in life, so I know

you're going to be here too. So let me just explain this to you. I said, let's just say that we're out here selling dope right over, you know, outside of cross through in this corner. Let's say you're out there selling you're dope, right? And all of a sudden, you see me pull up, and I'm right across the street from you. And I start selling the same thing you're selling, but I'm selling for a little bit cheaper. And I said, you won't be mad about that? He was like, well, yeah. So that's kind of why I'm in here. And I said, well, I didn't know that, but I said, check this out, dude. I said, right now that's what you're doing. You're doing with my money. You're messing with my money. Because if you're out of place, you're out of place,

and they come in here and they freeze this block, they're going to take check money from me and my family because you're out of place. So go back to your cell. In a situation like that, like, you start gaining respect because they're like, oh, shoot. A lot of people, they would write tickets, and that's how they would run their block. But no, you're going to get no respect for that. I'll just write you up, right? And in an environment like that, bro, like, I'm not coming in here and being scared and write tickets. I'm getting a respect, whether we're working at McDonald's or Burger King or a corrections officer.

Like, you live here. You know the rules more than I know the rules. Like, don't, you know, don't, don't like take my kindness for weakness. When you were at the peak of your career, how would you describe yourself as an officer? So, you know, it's funny. Like, so I'd run into people that were locked up and I run them out in the streets. And it's funny because a lot of people hate that. Because it's like, oh, man, it's like, what's he going to do?

Me, my, I would get defensive. Like, I'd go up to him. Like, hey, man, how you been? Just to see. because a lot of people, you know, just like they could try to bully people in there, right? And they don't think they're ever going home. Well, you know, if you get locked up and you're an inmate and you go home, you know, and you have to see this CO, you know, this correction officer that was messing with you

while you're in there and now what's out, you know, like, oh, shoot. For me, I always knew that I always gave respect unless I wasn't respected, you know, like. So for me, at the top of my career, man, it was. I was a good, I guess I was good, because I was fair. They say it'd be firm, fair, and consistent. I definitely was that. I tried to, you know, my whole thing is what can I do to make my job easier? I don't have to stress about this.

They used to say, oh, well, you get to go home. Dude, it's a mental. You're counting the hours before you're going back. So it's actually not. I knew for me it wasn't. But like, oh, well, you get to go home, you get a break from this place. Like, dude, mentally no, because I don't come right back to listen to you. I've been dealing with you for seven years, you know, like I don't plan on going anywhere, so I'm still dealing with you.

You know, so I think as an officer, like, you do, I was good at, I mean, pretty much you're like a babysitter, you know. I ran, I was in the child hall from joining my career. Like, I ran rear security where, you know, I'm the one that issued the tools out, you know, for the inmates to prep the meals. So for me, you know, it was, for me, I think I mean, I was a good officer. And I've had people tell me that, you know, I've had a lot of people tell me that as in like, because I would show up to work, you know, do my job. I would try to stay under the radar, you know. And then I even ran into inmates that were out that said, hey, man, you were fair.

like you treat me with respect, you know. So I think that all around I was good at what I did. Did you ever have inmates try to take the kitchen supplies at all? Like the weapons? So there was a chit system, you know, so it's hard for them to steal them, but they've used them when they were sent out to other people that they used them for weapons, you know. But if something was to happen, like, you know, they used to have these like big metal like ores. They look like boat oars that they'd stir the pots with, you know,

because you're feeding all these people. You know, like I've seen somebody get smacked with one of those, you know. But once one comes up missing, you know, like then they lock the prison down or they'll lock the child hole down until they find it. But never had anybody because they got a pretty good system how, you know, it is to signing it out to that person. So if it comes up missing, they're responsible for it. And, you know, majority of people don't, they don't want to deal with that. You know, I'm not going to take something that you signed out, especially if you're any, you know, it just causes more of a headache then you don't go back to your block and it's just you're stuck down there

what are some of the traumatic moments that you've witnessed in those facilities that will never leave your brain in your mind so so i've so i've i would say that i've seen um which when they when you say traumatic like i've seen people get stabbed. I've seen people hanging. It's dead, you know. I think that to be honest with you, like that stuff doesn't bother me. Not saying that it doesn't bother me, but I'm like, that's, I think the most traumatic thing to me, man, was looking at people that were in there for raping and killing kids and hear them talk and brag about it and having no remorse. I think that was the most, that's probably the most traumatic. thing that I think actually completely, I mean, it cost me marriages.

It's cost me peace. Yeah, I would say dealing with people that you go in there and you see people's files when you're shaking themselves down. People that are making, like, kids, like they would make, like, stuff their pillows and make, like, little dowels out of their pillow, like, jerking off to, towards the rest commercials and like, you know, things like that where you see pictures of, like, kids with their hips broke from getting raped. And, you know, it's crazy because you, like, out here in the world, like, people that are doing life,

they're, like, extinct, like, they're, you know, people ain't never going to see a lot of these people again, but you see them every day, right? And it's like, um, you sit back and you think like, dang, like, you know, I used to tell these people, and it used to traumatize me because I would, sitting here thinking like let's say because I've worked in the child hole right I majority and this is the this is like the things like my daily struggles is if you're a child molester right and you're like a dude that you know like a hood dude right and you have a job that's got to get done who would you rather do the work right because usually these pedophiles are people that had good jobs right

there weren't some you know they weren't out here robbing stealing they were praying on people so they were normal people looking in the streets. So for me, it was a struggle every day because I worked the child hole and I would look at my roster and I would see that, hey, I got a new person coming to the kitchen. And you could tell pretty much what they look like when what they were in for when they walked through the doors. Hey, that's not fair because that's what people did to me. Oh, so which, what, they thought that's what you were? Yeah. You know.

So you were one of those people that thought I was that too. I would have never thought that that's what you would have been just because you're young. You know what I'm saying? I'm talking about older white men. Like that's... That is the label older white men. And dude, like, dude, it messed me up so bad that when I would drop my kids off to my father-in-law at the time. Dude, I would leave and, dude, I would break down in my car and start crying, like, because I was picturing this dude, trapping my kids in, like, the basement or something.

And not that he would ever do anything, but you deal with that. Like, there was so much of that, like, their own... like family members raping them and touching them. These parents are just letting their kids go to some dude's house at 40 years old and their kids are like, dad, like, what are you doing? You know? So for me, I think that, I guess when you, like, the traumatic stuff, like, for me, personally, like the, when I knew that somebody raped 25 kids and he walks by me and says,

hey, how you doing the officer nagel? And I would say something like, fantastic, like something like, something like, um sarcastic sarcastic and then i would like i would i would i would do i'd mentally beat myself up like man this dude has no idea like if this dude this don't even say anything to me if he knew who i was like what i really wanted to do and i'm sitting on my porch dude this dude walked 10 10 miles the other way but because i have this badge on i have a job to do like he gets at like oh how you doing because and then me and I didn't want him to think that I accepted what he did.

And it was just a mental battle every day. And they're like, well, don't ask him what they did. Well, my whole thing is I want to know what they did because if you're in here for waving 25 kids, I sure in the head don't want to give you a job, you know, but you're supposed to be fair. So they say, well, don't, don't. But to me, that was one of my biggest mental battles is, you know, I would get into with other officers. I'm like, do that dude's, he's raped and killed kids.

Well, I don't care. You know, he works for him. I'm like, well, I want to give somebody a job that doesn't work for you. Or that, you know what I'm saying? Like, because they don't work. That's what he said. A child molester, they'll work. They're used to having a job.

This hood. That's your job is to make them work. You know, like, you're just taking the easy way out. And I had somebody tell me one time another officer, like, why do you even care, bro? Like, if they're in here for that. It ain't your kid. So I remember I got in this dude's place. I'm like, so what?

So if my kid got raped, it's not your kid. So what? Then you don't care? You know, it was just, it was. just a um it started taking a toll on me then you would hear people i'm getting going i'm going home and and and 22 days and they're like bragging about it and i'm like oh really like no way you've dude you're like right six kids what do you mean you're going home oh well the dad didn't get on he didn't want to put his kid on the on the stand and put him through that so yeah they're just

let me and dude it would eat me alive bro like it would seriously like eat me alive. Were there officers that kind of, you know, grayed outside the lines, colored outside the lines with these, you know, child molesters, like to kind of maybe physically hurt them or set them up for other inmates to attack them? I've heard of stories. I've heard of stories that, you know, that, you know, certain people would, yeah, that, trying to so there's stories that um that i heard that there was an officer that would pull

you know he would ask this child molester what he did and he would say um you know like for instance when they came in i would ask him say how long you do them and they'd say 20 years well by looking at you i know you didn't kill nobody so so how many people did you kill well i knew by looking at the dude you didn't kill nobody. And he's like, he said, I killed one person. And you could tell that he was like, I'm like, all right. And I said, I'm only asking because I just want to know how long you're going to be here because, you know, if you're out of job, I want to promote you.

You know, like I want to make sure that I'm going to give you the best job, you know. And if you're planning on being here for a while, you know, I don't want to give you a better job and, and, you know, I guess invest time into you, you know, to promote you through this kitchen or give you a better job as like being a port or something if you're not going to be here. long, you know, so that's why I'm asking. So, um, I would ask him and then, um, I would go home and look him up. And I'm like, wow, like this dude's like a serial rapist, you know, serial rapist. And dude, I would toss and turn all night because I'm like, man, thinking about what he did. Then you, because it's all public record, you know what I'm saying? Like, you can look these

cases up. You can look that like, you can see them like, smiling in court, like, it's no remorse, like, and I'm like, you know, I'm trying to give this dude an opportunity, you know, to be better in, in corrections, you know, because that's where you're going to be, and then you lie to me, we're off the bat, you know. So, the next day they'd bring them in, and I'd ask them, like, you know, um, you know, it's, public record, you know, like, are you sure that's what you're in here for? And there's, There may have been a couple inmates that were standing around, you know, that heard or that already knew. They already know a lot of the time of what you've done.

You know, like you said, you can tell about the way you look. But other people, I've heard other situations where they were taken back there and say, hey, you know, you're going to tell this officer what you did or you're going to get it back when you get back in the block. You know, does that make sense? So you hear stuff like that. You hear about, there's only a few stories that you hear about people like that. it, you know, but they say once you go to prison, you can beat whatever you want to be. Like, you know, if I'm a CEO, I could be, you know, a championship boxer in the real world, just like, you know, an inmate, you know, he could, he could have made millions of dollars, you know,

like some did. No, you know. So it's, you do hear stories like that, you know, that, um, but a lot of, to be honest with you, the state protects a lot of people. You know, I've heard a situation where, um, an officer would, have other inmates say, hey, I'll give you, you know, an extra time on the phone, or I'll give you,

you know, an extra tray or whatever, you know, if you press this dude. And, you know, got to a point, I guess, where they were charging these inmates with hate crimes, you know, which was mind-blowing. Like, you sit back and think about it, like, what? So I was kind of in a situation where you know, I was on stress leave and I had Ohio State Patrol showed up at my door and they read me my rights.

And I didn't even realize I was at home with my kids or whatever. But they read me my rights and I'm like, and I didn't, two and two didn't come together, like just two random dudes pull up in ties. And, you know, they show their badges or whatever and said we're such and such, you know, can we come in? So I was like, yeah, sure. And I didn't know, like, I wasn't even thinking, you know, I didn't. But I guess there was an incident where a dude that, I guess, raped a six-year-old girl, ended up getting assaulted, you know, this inmate. And somehow my name got brought up into it or something.

And an officer said that when the inmate left, the block, he looked fine. But when he came back, he was all lumped up. Now, I'm sitting here thinking like, like, like, you know, like an officer, because he had, it was crazy because they played like kind of good cop, bad cop. And I'm like, they read my rights, you know, as soon as they came in, I'm like, you know, if I was worried about anything or sure in the heck ain't going to let you come in. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And if you read my rights, I'm thinking that, you know, but I didn't even hear all the story yet, you know, so I'm thinking, well, I wasn't worried about it because I knew it wasn't me, you know. But the one cop said that, um, he said that, uh, you know, well, we have a, he had a file. He said that, you know, we have statements saying, or he showed me a picture. of this inmate and you know there was like at the time i think there was like 3200 inmates in there and i'm like well we've got you know um we've got statements he held this vanilla folder up like of of uh of this inmate getting assaulted and i'm like well let me i said i said there's 3200 inmates i'm like why why are you coming me i you know it's like well he you know people were saying that

you're the one that did it you know in these statements i said inmates they were like no staff i'm like I said, let me see this. Let me see the statements. He's like, well, no. I'm like, come on, dude. You just written my rights, you know, you're saying that, that, you know, that you're getting statements from people. So if you would have had something saying that it was me, then you already took me to jail. Because you're written my rights. Now you're saying you got statements. So like what, you know. So I said, I don't know what you're talking about. I said, this dude looks no different than, you know, then, I mean, there's 3,200 image. at least at this, you know, like, I don't know. And they're like, well, I said, well, why would somebody assault him? He said, well, because he's a sex or finery, raped a kid or whatever. I'm like, well, it sounds to me like you should go ask the inmates because I don't think the inmate population really puts up with that, you know? So it was a, it was a situation where like, they said, well, we'll be in touch, whatever.

Well, come to find out the inmate that got assaulted, he tried to, I guess they gave him a lineup to pick somebody out of the lineup. And it said that he was a bullheaded 300 pound bullheaded guy. and end up picking somebody else out, which wasn't me, you know. So that it, yeah, so I didn't get any trouble over that because the dude that he picked off ended up being off that day. So it seemed like this dude was either making it up or, you know, who knows, you know, but. So, but yeah, situations like that where you're the most traumatic, I guess, is when you see people that that rape and kill kids in, and it's just like

a normal person like man I can't be around that person but me dude I thought in life dude it took it took control of my life man like I would go because I had a job and I wanted to be

all I could be I wanted to be Deputy Dan with my badge on you know now like because it was a good job excuse me because it was a good job and I was making a

you know I was having my first kid I had my first kid and my second one was on the way like good insurance and stuff and I didn't want to mess that up, you know. And if I could have, you know, snapped and an inmate or something, you know, just. So I would keep it all bottled in. And then when I would leave work, there was like probably like three or four different occasions that, dude, I would leave work. And I would go to like a bad part of town.

And I would literally like see like four or five dudes that look like trouble. you know, walking up towards, like, you know, walking on the street or whatever, and I would pull over on the side of the street, and I would get out, and I would leave my car open. At this time, I drove, like, a Cadillac, and I had wheels and stuff on it. And I would walk through them, like, hoping, like, to, like, for them to, like, start something, you know. Because I had all this anger and all this build up inside of me that, man, this dude said hi to me today. Like, this dude doesn't even know. he raped 60 like I you know but I got to keep my job I don't want to I don't want to jeopardize my

job you know because I'm writing for my family but then I don't want to lose my job either because I'm learning from these people like where I can help you know outside world and sit here think like um hey man like uh yeah when they pass them flyers out like that's a real thing like that's a real thing like watch your kids you know that's not they pass it out for a reason and a serial sex offender told me that you know so yeah I had so much bowled it up that I just didn't know how to release it. So I'd go and try to put myself in situations where whether I'd get stomped out or fight, you know. And luckily for me, it never happened.

And anybody ever, like, tried to, you know, test me. But, yeah, it was, I think for that stuff, you know, and even with you, you bring that stuff home. You have all this anger and stuff built up. You bring it home. You take it out on your wife and your kids. and yeah, I would definitely say it cost my first marriage. Was there an outlet for you to talk to someone? Like, rather than handle it by going to try to start a fight outside of the prison,

was there someone you could have talked to inside? No. And what about your coworkers? Are they experiencing similar things? Or no one's voicing at the time? And I think that that's one of the things that, like, you know, when it comes to like this platform like this, man, like, you know, I used to have a teacher that used to say when I was in Toledo, like, hey,

let's put the cops out of business by meaning like let's just stop all the crime and and we'll put all the cops you know if you think about that that was a pretty good theory you know like if there's no crime you know there would be no work for cops to even have cops and it was far-fetched but that was one thing that stuck with me for a long time that makes you know everybody complains about the cops and stuff right well hey let's put them out of business let's just start over here in this neighborhood or this suburb or whatever and like let's just so they don't even have to have them right so In there, it's like, you know, you're always going to have crime.

So it is a good job, to be honest with you. Like, I know working for the state of Ohio, man, like, they pay well. You know, they, and the insurance is great. Like, at the time that I was there, you know, like, to me, to be young and to do a career like that, it was good. Now, you can make your job whatever you want to make it. I end up becoming like an OJT officer, which was on the job training officer. And like I said, you can train people how to do the job, but you can't train them to have that fight or flight mode in them, you know?

And, you know, kind of a funny story. Like, so when you go through the academy and you do your two weeks, then they send you to Columbus, which is like where the main academy was at the time. So you got all these new officers and you're going through, it's like, I think it was like four months, like this academy. So that's what it was. So they make you go to the two weeks after your facility that you're working. Make sure you don't quit that, hey, this is what I want to do.

And then they send you all for like four, I think it's four months. months, two months something, but they send you off. But they know that they're putting all this money and this time into you. They don't want you to go do that and they get on a job and not have no experience of being in that facility and say, no, this ain't for me. So I remember, dude, like where we were staying, it was like an old, it was like an old, uh, um, part of the jail where they had all these corrections officers that would stay. And, uh, I had one dude come up to me. This dude was like, like, um, they used to call him cowboy. Like, this dude was like, I mean, um, hillbilly dude, right? And, uh, he asked me, he was like, hey, man, can, can you blow 1,500 inmates?

And I'm like, what, dude? Like, I don't even know this dude. I'm like, you're coming up to me. Like, all these people are around. Like, we're in this correctional facility, right? I'm sitting here thinking like, oh, we're, like, we're going to start this already. And, dude, I got mad as heck, dude. And he's like an older dude. And he's like, hey, man. like, chill out. I'm like, dude, you don't, don't talk to me. Like, for real? Like, I said, I don't play on that gay stuff, dude.

And he was like, oh, man, relax. He was like, he's like, I'm not saying you're gay. He said, I just want to make sure if they take over the prison, I can do my half, but I can't do yours. You know, like, kind of like made it like funny. Like, geez, oh, beats, dude. This is what I'm getting into. But, you know, it was like, you had some officers in there, man, that, I mean, when you put a uniform, you tell somebody, man, like, I'm going to work.

at this person. They're like, dude, that's a good talking piece, right? I mean, it's because it's like, dude, it's a different world. I mean, it is a complete the worlds are different, man. The wild wild west. Dude, it's crazy. And they used to call like Gladys school back like where I was. And my whole thing was, you know, everybody was tough in there. And I used to say,

well, I remember one time I walked back to this bathroom, like in the childhood they had a bathroom. And, dude, they steal everything, dude. Toilipaper, light bulbs. Like, you couldn't do you couldn't have anything out dude they're stealing it and uh i remember that uh i walked back to the to do my round or whatever you know you have to do your rounds and dude there was like 40 people in this back bathroom and as i start coming back there everybody starts running i'm like no no no no don't leave and there's two inmates back there fighting and i'm like look dude don't stop because of me i'm like you both talk about how tough you are like i want to see and um you know

like I had an inmate and I was just kidding but I had an inmate was like man don't let them fight dude he was like don't let them fight because one of them going to end up getting killed and they're going to say that you sat back and watched that's the respect I'm talking about you know what I'm saying like that's the respect that you know got to put all of us in on this world you know I'm saying and and that's one of the things I have trouble with you know and my faith is like you know child molesters you know and it's like people you say oh well you're a Christian you know you you you know, you talk about forgiveness. I'm like, yeah, yeah, you know, but God knows nobody's perfect.

You know, like forgiveness for me, that's like, you know, I believe that God's the only one that judges, you know, but I'm in my own flesh. And it's just like, I, you know, I, yeah, I'm not perfect. That's one thing that it bothers me. But, you know, so for a certain situation of, you know, so going back there like when it like respect, respectfully, they were like, hey, man, don't, you know, You know, don't let this happen because, you know, if one of them gets killed, I'm going to say, you stood back and watch. But that was a part of the respect that, hey, look, you know, I wasn't ever on that stuff because I wear a badge. Like, I have a job to do. But if you do your job, if you're doing what you're supposed to, I don't have to say anything to you.

That's a good day for me, you know, I don't look for to say, you know, to say something to a grown man that's been locked up for 20 years. Believe me, as much as you don't want to hear it, I don't want to say it to you. Now, there are people that do, but, yeah, that's not me at all. How long were you on the job for, total? Almost 10 years. Why'd you end up leaving? So they medically retired me and diagnosed me of PTSD. It got to a point that like my mental, I think, was, I think my supervisors knew that, you know, I guess the way that I was talking about certain things about how like they knew that I was unstable.

And I was already on, I was already on stress leave twice, you know. And I think a lot of it is, you know, being in that, like I said, I worked the child hall for majority of my career. And that's where all the, you know, people that want to work, they're going to the child hall because that's where the jobs always are. When majority of the people want to work are, you know, a lot of, you know, to me personally, like, you know, in my career, a lot of, you know, child molesters were going to go sexual offenders, you know, we're going to go work because they want to work, you know, everybody's lining up out at the door like, hey, I want to work. They're usually getting, I think if you didn't work, I think you're getting $3 a day or $3 a month, you know, for the state at that time. I think you were making $3 if you just laid in your rack and didn't do anything. But for me, because it was a mindset that I'm seeing these people every day, like, and I knew that, you know, it just got to a point I think that I was like, what are we doing here? Let me get another story.

Like, so I remember I was standing and a food service work come up to me and they said, hey, you see that inmate down there? And I looked and this dude, bro, this old white dude, like, I mean, dude, he was, he was not of that, bro. And she was like, well, are you going to go see what happened? And I looked at him like, it looks like a child molest for me. Like, what do you want him to say? You know, he's going to lie to me. Like, you know, if I go ask him, he's not going to tell anybody. So I was like, yeah, let me.

because you got to do your job. You know, if I didn't do anything, if I didn't go talk to them, then there's a risk of this dude getting killed. And then they say, you know, food service where we say, well, I told that officer down there and he didn't even go say anything. So you got to do your job. As much as you don't in certain situations,

so I went down and I'm like, look, what happened? I said, if you're going to lie to me, don't even, you know, whatever. You know, I said, are you in here on a sex crime? And he was like, no. I'm like, come on, dude. Like I've said here thinking like, dude, you fit the profile. But you're trying to profile people, but you fit the pro. He was like, no, I'm in here for like robbery, like three years.

And this is like an old white dude. Dude worked his butt off every day, like, you know, but your mentality is, that's what he's in there for. And your mentality is so messed up that when they would come in out asking what they're doing. And if you killed 40 dudes, if you killed 40 people, you got a job. But if you raped one person, you didn't get a job from me. Like, that's my mentality. I was thinking. Like, oh, yeah, you can kill people, you know, if.

If, you know, you try to play in your mind to get through the day, you know. People would ask me, hey, can I get a job? You know, and my whole thing is, what are you in here for? And a lot of times you don't pick unless somebody come to you and say, hey, can you give me a job? A lot of the, you know, the staff or whatever is the ones that were giving them jobs. You know, they're people that they talk to, whatever, their caseworkers would give them jobs. But, I mean, that was the mentality of it. If you raped one person, dude, I don't want you working for me, you know.

And I'll give you a job, you know, but if you kill 20 people, I'll give you a job. That's how messed up in my head was like, you know, this is starting to deter my job because I'm sitting here thinking like, and I think I told a supervisor that like, hey, man, if don't send me no more. I did tell him, I'm like, dude, don't give me no more, no more pedophile. And he kind of laughed. And I knew that my mental like Was like dude What are you laughing at dude? You think I'm kidding like To me it was like a game

Like they thought this was a game And they didn't understand dude I was dealing with this dude Like I was leaving like I said I was going down to try to start confrontations With people outside because I had all this build in So you got people laughing You got you got you know

Certain officers not like said For every bad officer dude there was 20 great ones But then you have officers in there That were kicking it with these dudes that rape kids. And I'm like, dude, like, I'd go up to an officer. Like, dude, like, what do you over here kicking with this dude? I said, you're bad mouth this officer over here, but you're over here kicking with this dude. And this dude's got three counts of rape on a kid. Like, really? So then I'm like, I'm getting worked up towards staff now. You know, like, like, pointing my finger

in their chest, like, you know, and, you know, my supervisor one day, I called him. I'm like, dude, you better get me out of here. And he was like, what? I said, get me out of here. And he's like, what are you talking about? He's like, are you all right? He was like, you want to go see this. He asked me if I wanted to see our psych doctor that was, you know, I'm like, no, your best bets to get me out of here because I'm going to hurt somebody, man.

Was that third? Uh-huh. Yeah, go on. I said, I'm not talking about the name. I'm talking about you. I get me out of the, because you got these dudes in here. Do I was crying? Like, I was messed up.

Like, I would, I just hit my limit. And, dude, he walked me out. He was like, dude, just take the day off. And, you know, you asked me if there are people that in there you can talk to. No. because I'm going to be honest to you A lot of people either they were really good at hiding it Or they didn't see it the way I did

And you didn't have anybody No but dude you can't talk to people Like you try to understand and tell people Like what you deal with and try to fight that Nobody understands that When people When people see When people see dude

Like I mean think about that If you knew a dude and you've seen pictures This kid that was raped A baby that you know at like just say nine months and their hips were broke from and you see this dude every day and then you think man that's like and I know I'm kind of jumping around dude I was so messed up dude I would get pulled over from the cops and dude I would try to start conversation with the cops I'm like you're pulling me over for what speeding I'm like give me I said go back

and tell your cop buddies in the locker room that you did a great job today you got me for a speeding ticket I said do you know what I deal with like I'm some like I'm some like arrogant you know I'm like we do I'm dealing with people that are raping killing kids and you're out here giving speeding tickets you know like just my mentality was so messed up it was like it was like I don't know why it was like that but dude it messed me up dude my family was I mean scared to death I remember my brother asked me hey can I take my son that's out there now he's a big kid now but he said hey can I take him over to the store and um I mean the store is only probably like four or five houses down and I said you want to lose your

life over protecting him and he kind of laughed like no i said dude no seriously and to this day you know he told some of that story like dude like i really think that in my head like it was just i wanted my kids plant the yard because i was so overprotective you know i was on i was on um stress leave and this neighbor kid man i heard some of yelling and it sounded like two adults, but it was just the same dude young at this kid, how stupid he was, because he put his shoes on wrong and grabbing him up. And I was like, oh, I'm going to get this dude. Like, I'm going to get this dude.

And he lived right across and he was just walking his kid to school. And I'm putting my shoes on, right? And I'm like, oh, I'm going to show this dude. Like, this is how messed up I was. That's why I had me on stress leave because I'm like, I'm about to go nuts. So I'm putting my shoes on. I'm waiting. I keep looking at the door for this dude to come back.

And I'm like, you know. and I think by the grace of God, dude, like, he never, he went somewhere else. He never came home at that moment, you know. I'd be at, back then, like, a video show like a blockbuster or something, and a dad was all tatted up and he was talking crazy with kids. And I'm just minding my own business, but it's just like a trigger. Like I sound like, hey, why don't you talk to me like that, you know? So I went from being feared, like, I guess kind of scared and timid as a kid,

to be in that environment where you're challenged, dude, you have to, you have to, you got to be that dude. Because if you're not, you might as well quit. So now, after all these years, it's like you feel that people challenge you. Like, I feel like I'm people where there's always a,

there's always a, it's always like, you know, somebody's always trying to get something over on you. If an roommate's trying to talk to you and be nice to you, it's like, oh, because they got something gone, they're just trying to distract you from something that's going on over here. And that was my mentality. Like, that's, you know.

But, yeah, I told my one supervisor man before, like, one of the last days that before they put me on the process that I had to go through all this medical, you know, the examinations before the state retired me. I told an officer one day, or he was a lieutenant. I said, let me tell you something, dude. I said, you come in here and I said, you think that you're something. I said, but let me tell you. because you got, you know, you're a lieutenant.

And I said, whether you're a lieutenant, captain, whether you're a CEO or a nurse or whatever. I said, you got two things of water, man. You got water over here that you drink out of and you take a bath in. And then you got water over here that people are, you know, spitting in and, you know, whatever, you know, that you can't drink this water because it's polluted, whatever you can. I said, we're over this water over here. and I said nobody really cares right about us because I even when them cops were in my rights and stuff they said that you guys are just that's what they told me like you guys are bullies in there like you guys ain't real law enforcement I'm like like where did that come from you know and I said well I understand how you feel because you're out here and it's easy for you to you know

you're over here reading my rights and saying that this dude that raped a six year old girl got assaulted got slapped around I guess right and you're in here reading me like I like I did something like you know that like try to kill this dude or whatever you know because you said that he got slapped around a little bit I said but I said like to me that makes no sense I said and I think that that's why you try to pin on somebody because I said you don't have anything because it wasn't me but I'm like but it's easy for you to say that you know but you don't understand what people do with in there you know so but I told me that all of the time I'm like so it doesn't really matter you could be you could be you're the lieutenant over something that really people don't care about you know and a lot of sense a lot of

people like not saying that people like I said I had a lot of family members that were locked up and not saying that people don't care but some people are men's society bro you know that are bad people you know I know people that were in there that were in there for protecting their kid and they killed people for people hurting their kids now to me here here's an extra tray you want a job here's a job you know people mess up and I knew that stuff like that could happen. And they tried to, my supervisor tried to write me up one day. There was a guy that was working back in the child hold and we do count, right? Where count's a big thing.

If you don't come out for count, you know, then they lock everything down and make sure nobody escaped. Well, this inmate was deaf. And he actually, dude, he was locked up forever. Like, I mean, he's, I mean, he's doing life. He wasn't ever going home. But he was one of the hardest workers. but he was back in the can room, you know, where he was the trash guy. Well, I didn't do my job, and I didn't walk back there and checked to make sure that everybody was out there.

So when they did count, he came out like, you know, late. It was like three or four minutes late. So they pulled him with the catmonds off, and they were about to put this dude in the hole. I'm like, well, hold on a second. I'm like, don't. I said, well, don't, it's not his fault, you know. and when I walked out my, you know, captain at the time walked, he said, man, don't you ever do that again. I'm like, what?

He said, don't ever stick up for them. I'm like, dude, check this out. I said, this job isn't going to dictate my character. I was wrong because I didn't go back there. You know what I'm saying? But I said, I'm supposed to follow somebody like you, right? You're supposed to be a leader and you want me to change my character because of a badge or of a job, you know. So I think a lot of it too is just the mentality

Because I've had people like that They don't know what These people that I worked with You know They didn't understand how I got a lot of respect It was because you give it They thought I had somebody saying Oh what do you bring them dope?

Like No it's called risk You give people respect Now I've been disrespected You know And it's just like I've heard officers go back there and say Hey you know

We just go back here in this closet Back here in this chemical closet And we just work it out You know And I heard stories that You know, you want to hurt, hit people in the face. You just go to the body and, you know, a lot of people, that's how that's, I mean, you're dealing with grown men, you know. So the whole thing is, is how you don't get your respect?

I knew for me, like, because you treat people, like I said, it was really easy for me to treat people fair because I had family members. I grew up in, you know, in a negative environment. but for me it was I want to make my job easy so if I don't have the same thing so when you had all these I had one guy that he was the head of the Crips or whatever but they feared him because he lived there with them so what I'll tell him is you make sure that everybody stays off the range and I'll let you go ahead and run your store so you can walk around because I knew that once I left they're going to have to deal with this dude since he lives there they're going to listen to him So I'd say, yeah, go ahead and run, make you know, do your bets or whatever.

Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile, with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy over paying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Up front payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15.

per month required intro rate first three months only then full price plan options available taxes and fees extra see full terms at mintmobile.com keep everybody off off the range and that's what they pretty much did my job for me when you look back on it now are you glad that they kind of forced you into retirement man i'm gonna tell you i didn't realize what PTSD was but i think the warden and i had you know some supervisors and stuff that dude they really yeah for me i'm something like dude i know for like the state of ohio for them to do that for me, I think that, dude, that says a lot. Because in, you know, where I worked is, dude, there was 90, I think 21 of us. And you got a year on probation for a year. I think when that year was up, I think there was three left. The turnover rate for that institution, dude,

it was crazy because it was a different type of institution or institution where all the uses of forces and stuff, you know, they would bring all the, the riffraff over to, to, to, a, you know, and it was just, it's, it's so crazy. Like, I heard that. So one night at like 3 o'clock in the morning, they, they bust some, I think it was like five or six inmates over, okay? They bust five or six inmates over that were causing trouble at a minimal camp.

And I remember they pulled up and I was outside when they pulled up and they're out there laughing, you know, like these inmates. they thought that, you know, but, and I'm sure they count for the same way in the federal joint, right? Like, they count like four times to make sure that nobody escapes. Yeah, I think I believe it's, yeah, three during the day and then one overnight. Yeah, yeah, when they're asleep, yeah. So in order to get moved in the middle of the night, like that's a big deal because they were trying to send like riots or whatever. So they're laughing, getting like, ha, ha, well, they didn't know where they went.

Well, I went inside to take the belly change or whatever, and I heard that these dudes were laughing. And all of a sudden I see like these dudes just start falling out the back of the van, dude. And I heard the one dude say, man, you can't hit that. You can't do that to us. And, dude, they were in there and they started crying. Like, they went from laughing, thinking it was some type of joke to like Lily crying, you know. I heard, you know, just to go back to the other question. You know, I've heard of, you know, child molesters that didn't have anything that they come in there and the inmates, you know, get a hold of them.

And then I remember I walked into a cell one day and this dude was, he let his kids starve. Like literally let, they did an all-tops on this baby. And they just let it sit there and starve. Like they did the all-tops. And there was nothing in the kid's intestines. Like a three-month-year-old baby. Wow. And in court, like him and his wife were just sitting.

They're smiling. Like, no remorse like. And this dude was big. And, man, I remember I didn't know what at the time until after, but I went, you know, into a cell for something. And, dude, they tied all of his clothes. So I heard stories where if you don't have anything, you know, they can't extort you. But what they did was they tied all this state blues, his pants and his shirts, like tie them in knots. you know, so tight that like they're literally like two big dudes are pulling him so tight that, you know, he's still trying to get the knots out.

Because if you can't, if you don't have your blues on, you can't get out the cell. You know what I'm saying? So they tie this stuff so tight that, you know, he couldn't get it on tight so he couldn't leave the block. So it's a, it's, yeah, but I guess to go back to, yeah, the original. I think that for them to force me because it, I would have never thought that I was, that it messed me up that bad until I started going to therapy after the fact. Or I had to have to go to therapy for it, you know. And, but I think that a lot of that stuff brought out, you know, I guess stuff growing up.

You know, it's like you got to kind of face it. And I think that, I think that's the whole thing. And I've always wanted to, I guess, people don't want to put money into like the prison stuff, right? But if you think about it because it's, which a lot of money goes into it, like to feed somebody and how somebody for, I know different states are different. But if you had good staff that could treat people different, you know, they say rehabilitation, you know, which some people, they do offer some stuff. and, you know, but I just think that it could be a good career, but it's, you know, they privatized the food service part of it. So now you're, you know, when I was, when I was going through my retirement, I think that's when they had regular staff.

But then they brought some private company in there. They're paying them $10 an hour, you know, to feed these guys. And if you're only making $10 now, you know, you're bringing dope and cigarettes and stuff. You know what I'm saying? Like, what are you thinking? You know, like, oh, if I'm only making $10 and somebody. off me $1,500 for a carton of cigarettes. Oh, yeah, dude.

Yeah, call me the marble man. You know, so. Yeah, it's tough. If you get one message across, whether it's to a former inmate, a current inmate, you know, a parent, a loved one, someone that has someone in the criminal justice system,

one message across, you know, for someone that's listening to your story, what would that be? I'm going to tell it like this, man. And, dude, I was, I was, when I was, I was sitting in my office, like I had an office, you know, and I told him, I'm like, dude, I feel like I'm going to go nuts. I'm sitting in my office like, me and you are, you know, like a good friend of mine. He still works there. And I'm like, dude, we're making great money to sit here.

And it's like hanging out. We're making good money. We've got good insurance. But I feel like I'm going to explode, man. I said, I don't know what it is, but I just feel like I'm going to. to go nuts. I'm going to tell you like this. The only thing that gave me peace, dude, was Jesus Christ. And I'm not just saying that. Like, I'm telling you, man, I was in such a dark place that, like I said, it cost me marriages.

It cost me, like, string with my kids. You know, it cost me, like, a lot. And I finally was just, like, look, I have, I have nothing else. Like, I'm going to this. I feel like a loser, because now what are they going to say when I'm getting retired? Am I going to even be able to get another job? Are people going to look at me like I'm crazy? You know? And I literally prayed about it, dude. And like, as a man, you want to be able to support your family.

And like I said, because my dad was killed. I never had, I never really knew what that. My mom always worked like two or three jobs, dude. She did the best she could do, you know. But I didn't want my kids to go through that. And I literally was just like, I prayed about it. And I remember that I used to make excuse. I used to have the worst mouth in the world.

I used to cuss like. And I said, God, I'm not going to cuss for two weeks. My mom was trying to, you know, my mom was struggling to find a job. I'm like, I'm not going to cuss for two weeks. You know, I'm going to put my faith in you and say, God, I'm not going to cuss for two weeks. Because I want my mom to get a job. And it was crazy because I used to defend my, you know, I'd cuss in front of my kids and say, hey, you know, I don't want them to get bullied. Somebody says, oh, you said a bad word and then get bullied.

but what I did was I prayed about and just like that I remember I got into it with an inmate and this dude was like big six eight black dude and he was talking reckless and I couldn't say anything dude like I couldn't cuss at him and it was just like right then that I knew that man that my life was going to be different so I'm going to be honest whether you're locked up and and you know I'm not a a Bible thumper I wish you know I was but when you're locked up man and I've talked to people that are rich talk to people that are broke I talk to people that are locked up that have friends and that, you know, have tons of family. They don't have, you know, no family at all.

But I'm telling, man, the only piece that I can tell you is, man, if you open that book and you ask, you know, for forgiveness of whatever you've done, you know, it's going to give you something. I just watch a podcast where a billionaire said that. He was like, man, I was so lost. And I have all this. I'm a billionaire. And he said, man, I didn't have anything until I had Jesus in my life. And but this world where we're at now, like, man. Man, they're going to fail you.

Man, they're going to fail you because we're all here in person, you know. But, you know, if I ask you for something, your feeder to the fire, chances are you may, like, you know, turn your back on me or something. And that's happened a lot to me where people you would think that you could trust and depend on and they all fail. I know right now where I'm at in life, dude, I mean, this is a perfect example. Dude, I prayed about having a platform, not for me, you know what I'm saying, but to talk about, you know, the story about PTSD and just about mental issues and, you know, the prison system and my story, but to really talk about how God changed my life. So that's the main thing I'll take, if you don't listen to the word I say, man,

turn your life to Jesus. And in this messed up war that we live in now, he is a one person in life that can give you peace for sure. So. Scott, thank you so much, man, for sitting down with me today and coming on the show and traveling from Ohio. It was a pleasure to sit and talk with you. And, you know, I wish you the best with everything you got going on.

I appreciate it, brother. Thank you so much.