Locked In with Ian Bick - Ex-Prison Guard Reveals Life Inside Tennessee’s Death Row | Shocking Prison Stories | David Beechy

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

David Beechy is a former correctional officer who worked inside Tennessee’s death row, overseeing inmates awaiting execution. In this episode, he shares firsthand experiences of what really happens behind bars, from daily routines to high-security protocols and the emotional toll of working with death row prisoners. #PrisonGuard #DeathRow #InsidePrison #TennesseePrison #TrueCrime #PrisonStories #CorrectionsOfficer #LifeOnDeathRow Connect with David Beechy: FB: https://www.facebook.com/davidgruffy/ Thank you to ROCKET MONEY for sponsoring today's episode: Visit https://rocketmoney.com/lockedin to cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Life as a Former Correctional Officer 00:05:00 Limited Mobility in Amish Communities 00:09:24 Transition from Blue Collar to Law Enforcement 00:13:06 Transition to Watching Movies and TV Shows 00:17:17 Joining in the Mid-20s: Early Career Experiences 00:21:16 The Thrill and Power of Bull Riding 00:25:30 Staying Neutral in Politics 00:30:26 Working with Death Row Inmates 00:33:56 Experiencing Death Row: Insights and Reflections 00:38:59 Routine and Boredom in Correctional Facilities 00:42:18 Training and Qualifications in Correctional Facilities 00:46:49 Facing the Reality of Prison Guard Duty 00:51:04 Security Measures After a Prison Escape 00:55:53 Leaving a Correctional Officer Job 00:59:41 Insights on the Criminal Justice System 01:04:09 The Experience of Working in Prison 01:08:11 Ey Escapes: The Story of Dane Jentry in Tennessee Prisons Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David, welcome to Lockton, man, from Ohio. You drove up here. A lot of Ohio guests have been coming lately. Have they? Yeah, we've gotten a few and correctional officers, too. We're a high criminal state. And you are a former correctional officer, correct? You're not still active in it?

No, nope. I did Tennessee 2008 into the beginning of 2009. Last thing I bought 14 months, and I realized it was not a life for me. that's an intense Wow and they put you in a pretty hardened facility for a new guy huh? Yeah it sounds vicious but when you're completely honest

in Tennessee they have a familiar with Tennessee's death row inmate system they're considered a max security inmate but they have a with in sight the unit they have a level A B and C so it's kind of like a minimum security

You can work your way up to where as long as you're inside the unit, you have lower security because everybody has an attorney. So they try to keep it as low-key. The other inmates from the surrounding units call it the country club. Like it's very low-key, very quiet, ran, very chill system the unit is. So I was lucky to get on it. That was by far the most organized, well-maintained, most respectful for all of them at Riverbent. Unit 6 was pretty good, but Unit 2 with death throw was the best one.

It just sounds aggressive, but once you're in there, you're just working with people that have killed other people. Like, it's no big deal. You say that so casually. Now, where did you grow up? Ohio.

Ohio. Down south, southern side of Ohio. So from Ohio to Tennessee and then back to Ohio. Yeah. Okay. Indiana and then Tennessee and then back to Ohio. Where did,

or who did you grow up with, were your mom and dad both in the picture, siblings? Yeah, my mom and dad are both together. Yep, I have eight siblings. There was nine of us total, so my parents were very much in love at least nine times. But yeah, I grew up, yep, my mom and dad, they're separated now, but they were all together when I was a kid up until 2001. When my mom left the Amish and went with her side of the family, that was kind of their split. So now you grew up Amish fully I did yeah yeah what was that like can you explain everyone's so

curious about the Amish life um you're gonna ask me any questions about you want I'm pretty open about it but the short answer is it was the greatest way to grow up that I would never go back to um it was good it was good it's a I think mentally it's a good because you're we didn't have social media we didn't have TV knowing electric And so the house was very quiet. You played with stuff that you could imagine as a kid. Like you make up your own, it helps your creativity develop, I think. Your brain just stays more quiet like that.

So mentally it's good for you. But I don't want to raise my kids like that. So obviously. Now, were you able to leave peacefully or are you like excommunicated or how does that work? I wasn't baptized as a member. So technically they can't go through the ceremony of excommunicating me, but the conservative ones will still shun me. The more modern ones don't. The more modern ones are pretty well completely fine with me, but the conservative ones will shun me.

So excommunication, if you're not familiar with, is basically the process they go through to give your soul to the devil. So I'm Satan's angels sitting here. and then shunning is the act of not having anything to do with you. So, yeah. What do you think is the biggest misconception TV or movies has made about, you know, the Amish life? Rhe Springer. What is that? Like in most of your Amish movies will have what they call Rumspringer,

where they allow you to go try the world to see if you want to not be Amish, that's not real. If that was real, there would be almost no Amish because once you have a car and electricity and an AC for a summer, you're like, the horse can stay in the barn. So like a pass, you're not allowed to get any type of pass. Correct. The more modern ones, their kids will go get their driver's license before they're baptized and actually a member of the church. And there's not a lot they can do about it. But the more conservative ones, they would have, yeah, that wasn't an option. Not at all.

So did you ever leave that area you grew up at all? or everything's on the land that you were growing up in? When I was growing up there? Yeah. Like, are you guys allowed to leave? Well, I went to different communities. I think I was six or seven when I went to my grandparents' house the first time. They would come see us, but the first time I traveled on a Greyhound bus.

So that's an interesting thing for, we used to actually see a lot of conservative family on Greyhound buses. But we Greyhound to my grandparents, probably my next time leaving the community, 10 or 11. I went to one of my cousins' weddings, but no, for the most part, I got probably count on both hands the time I left the township I was born in up until I was 16. So we don't like, we don't go out much. I remember the first time I went into a gas station that had two walkways. And I'm like, oh, man, I'm going to get lost in here.

I was like, trying to keep track of where I was at in the store. Like, that's how little I got out. So did you stay? I mean, if you stay Amish your whole life, when you need to work and make money, it all has to be within the community. Each group is different, but the group I was from, that's the main one I can speak for. We could go out away from home to do carpenter work and stuff if you were within a driving distance with a horse and buggy. So basically within like six to eight miles of the house, we could go, like we could do people's roofs and build fence. And my dad had a sawmill and a dairy farm.

So we all grew up. That's how his income was. It was through milk and cows and cutting boards. So, yeah, but we didn't do a lot of outside work. A couple of my older brothers did. Some carpentry work with a Mennonite crew. But like I said, it was within that eight mile, the distance you can drive in a buggy.

Your parents also thought you were crazy when you got a job in corrections. Yeah, they didn't like it very much. Do any Amish people go off and work in corrections that are from the community? Not that I'm aware of. You might be the only one. I'm the only one I know of that did. I would not be surprised. I'm sure it's happened before.

Let's see. I have a first cousin that's still in the military. I think he's in the army. But, yeah, as far as going to work at the prison, no, it's not a very popular. thing amongst them. I didn't tell any of the inmates that I grew up Amish because I knew when I was going in from my first interview, the little Southern lady that did my interview was like just

like just better if you just don't tell them because I'm going to give you a hard time with it. And then I realized pretty quick, yeah, I'm glad I never told anybody. Did your parents expect you to stay in that community, the Amish community, your whole life? Or did they know at some point that you would leave? They wanted us to stay, but they knew because that part was that group is extremely conservative.

And so they lose a lot of their young folk will move out to more modern groups. So they knew that at least some of us would leave. Matter of fact, I don't have any siblings left in that community no more now. They've all moved to higher waters. And what did they all end up doing for work, your siblings? Let's see. I have nine of them, or eight of them. My oldest sister's husband

I think most of his income is from raising sheep Actually both of my older sisters Their husband's raised sheep My Amish brother works at a Some factory that some other Amish guy owns Making bearings or redoing Something in a metal shop

I have About half of my family is not Amish no more So my oldest brother That's not is a truck driver one of them has a construction crew one of them does dirt what do you call it like dirt moving

he does back fills around houses and stuff my little sister works at a factory I have an Amish brother that's a preacher I find that interesting he does horse shoes I think he does mostly horses shoes for his living chewing horses did I hit eight of them

I think so Basically all blue-collar work. Yeah. Yeah. You're the outlier, basically. I was, yeah. Yeah. Now you're doing blue-collar work.

Trucking. My wife and I have a small trucking company. So I consider that blue-collar, yeah. So how do you end up in Tennessee? Or what was your path after when you left the community? Let's see. When I left the community, two of my older brothers that moved to Indiana, Indianapolis, north of Indianapolis, before I did.

So when I turned 18, I went out there. I drove dump truck for a little bit and then went from, I wanted to do law enforcement. And so I applied with a local security company that worked armed security in the Indianapolis area. It was the boringest job on earth. It's awful. I went. And so I was at my buddy's house, like 11 o'clock at night.

and I applied for to go work at he wanted to move to Nashville so I applied at the prison down there and I called down there to see like I didn't know what the process was and the guy's like hey call back in the morning at like 8 o'clock and talk to Miss

I don't remember her name and I called back the next day and she did a quick little over the phone interview and just like well everything sounds good come down and put an application and we'll do an in person interview and you have to be a resident in the state I'm like, well, if I move down, I'll have the job, she's like, basically yes.

And so packed my stuff and moved to Nashville and turning the application, they hired me. Wow. What was it about law enforcement that you wanted to do? Like, at what age did that intrigue you? Hey, all, it's your host of Lockton, and I have a serious question for you. Are you throwing money away without even realizing it? You ever feel like your bank account is doing time without parole? Because that's exactly how I felt when I saw how much.

many subscriptions I was still paying for, but not even using. Yes, we've all been there before. It was like my money was locked up, literally, and I had no way to break it free. That's when I found Rocket Money. And let me tell you, this app is the ultimate financial get out of jail free card. I checked my Rocket Money dashboard and realized I was paying for multiple streaming services I hadn't watched in months, literally just burning money every single month. And don't even get me started on that random subscription I forgot about from two years ago. But with Rocket Money, I saw everything in one place and with just a tap, they canceled the ones I didn't need anymore. Rocket Money doesn't just cancel unwanted subscriptions. It also monitors your spending,

alerts you when bills go up, and even negotiates lower bills for you so you could keep more cash in your pocket. Over 5 million people have already used Rocket Money to save a total of $500 million. Some are saving. up to $740 a year. Imagine all the things you could do with that extra cash instead of letting it disappear into subscription limbo. Break free from wasted spending today. Go to rocketmoney.com slash locked in to start saving now.

That's rocketmoney.com slash locked in. Don't let your money do time. Rocket money's got your back. Now let's get back into today's episode. That's a good question. Probably about the time I left the Amish, I'm guessing. I'm not sure what drew me to it, honestly. I don't know.

I don't know what drew me to it. I like helping people. Do I feel like a lot of law enforcement? Some of it is helping, but some of it is not. So I'm not sure. I don't really know what drew me to it. But after working at the prison for about eight months into, I'm like, this is not.

This is not for me. I don't want to live my whole life counting people and like watching everybody. It's a very intense. It's too intense for me. Yeah, I wonder where that... I'm too lazy for that. I wonder where that came from because you didn't grow up watching TV

or like TV shows or movies, right? No, uh-uh. I guess I never really thought about it that much. That's a... So it must have developed like as soon as you left then, right? Left the community? Yeah. I used to watch a lot of Western movies when I first left

because I liked the cowboy life. And so maybe from some crazy John Wayne thing, I was like, I could be John Wayne. I don't know. I don't know. So you moved to Nashville? Correct, yep. And then you get situated and you go in for this official job interview?

Correct, yes. What was that like? Oh, it was so easy and so basically they have a hard time staffing there. And so if you walk in with a driver's license and no criminal record, they'll give you the job. and I wish it would sound a little harder and I was like, oh, it was a bad at? No, you just kind of go in and they were like run my background and did a,

I think I did two different interviews. And they said, all right, you can go, that a crew going to their academy within like two weeks or something because I believe we went back to Indiana for the week and then went down and packed my bags and went down and went to the academy. And it was way easier than I ever expected it to be. The whole time going through,

I'm just like, believe this is happening. I can't believe they just hired me. And then once I realized what unit I was assigned to, I'm like, this is the craziest thing ever. Do you think a part of you wanted them to tell you no and it be a little bit harder for the job? So you could, you know, in your mind, I don't really actually want to do this. It would definitely make you value the job more if they made it harder. Because now you're just like, well, this is like, you know what I mean? The harder something, the harder you got to work for something, the more you'll appreciate it. And it was so easy that that's probably a bad answer

but is the honest answer I would have appreciated the job more if it was more difficult what was the training like were you physically fit at that point were you athletic not really I've never really been athletic the only time my run is to dinner that was funny

the uh we had to do you know I don't even think they had this was back in 2011 no it wasn't I'm sorry, delete the 2011 part. This was in 2008. I don't know, 2011 is when I went to start working oil field.

In 2008, so it's been a long time ago. But I don't think they had any fiscal requirements. I know we had to do, they had PE every morning. You had to go in and do your crunches and you have to run around the track. And they timed it, but I don't know, because they had some people in there that made me look like a, a stud. And so I don't think there was any requirements on on what you had to meet. So there are a lot of out of shape individuals too. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Because their pay is pretty rough and so when you don't pay

very much you just get whoever walks in. What was the starting pay for you? It was a salary and I believe it was based on $11 an hour. That's it? It was really bad. Yeah. My take home was like I think five or $600 a week. I had to work at least one shift of overtime every week just to cover my bills that did not include food money and like gas money and stuff it was rough how do you survive on that wow two three shifts of overtime every week that's how they got you yeah they make you do the overtime too right might have been designed like that intentionally i'm not sure but yeah and their turnover rate was awful like by the time i left there i was a senior officer and i've only been there for 14 months like that's how bad it was wow and but

But you got full benefits, like health benefits and all of that? Yeah, we did. They charged us $75 for $80 every two weeks out of our paycheck for it. But the benefits were great. And they have retirement and all that stuff, but I didn't. How old are you at the time when you joined? Mid-20s, 26, 27? Was that a good question?

The standard age that individuals are joining, were you? the youngest, oldest, maybe in the middle? I would have probably been, I was probably about in the middle, toward the younger side, trying to think if there was a, they had an officer over street there that was younger than I was. They had a couple military guys that would have been probably about my age. They served their like four-year term and then were out on reserve and they would go there for thinking it was a good fit. So I'd have been toward the lower half of the middle.

And how long was the training? How many months? It's either six or eight weeks. And you're paid for that time? Yeah, we were paid for our training. And it wasn't just Monday through Friday, you show up and... We couldn't leave, I believe it was eight weeks. And I think we were not allowed to leave the first six weeks.

And then you could go home for the weekend and come back and finish off the last two, if I remember right. My memory is rusty on all of this stuff. So it's probably someone out there screaming going, no, you asshole, you're lying. But I believe that's what it was. Okay. If my memory is right. But, and the whole time there was my experience eating prison food because they have inmates that come in and cook for us every day. And it's prison food.

You're eating prison food. There's no way around it. What did you think of the food when they gave it to you? It was just something to fill your hole up. It was rough. It was bad. It was not. I grew up on real food.

And then that was not nowhere near real food. What was your parents first react? when you told them that was your new job and your siblings. My dad is still Amish and was then obviously. I don't know if I ever told him. I'm sure he heard through the grapevines. My mom's reaction. She's had a lot of bad reactions of my choices.

So I worked at the prison. She didn't care for her. I bought a motorcycle and rode a bike for a little bit. She didn't care for that. I used to ride bulls and she didn't care for it. So probably I've done so many that I couldn't. tell you, I'm sure it was like, why would you do that? You're going to get killed. He's like, I just don't understand. Why would you want to do that? She used to say that a lot. Still says that a

lot. I just don't understand. Why do you want to do that? You rode bulls? I did for, yeah, about two years. Like you were the actual bull rider. They opened the gates and you get flung around. Is that a paid profession or was that for fun? I did it for fun. If you can do, if you're good enough, you can go like to the PBR and NFR and you can make money doing it, but I was too lazy and unorganized. I wish now I would have stuck to it and focused more on it and made it a potentially a career, but I was too lazy and just didn't carry enough to. But it's a crazy adrenaline.

If you like adrenaline, you would like that. Do you think that's what you were chasing by going into corrections? You know, I bet you're right. It was less about law enforcement, more about the adrenaline. because you kind of lack that probably your whole childhood. Yeah, you're right. That's pretty funny. I'm going to start using that.

Had such a boring childhood growing up Amish. Now I need all of this adrilling to build my... Shoot, what's the one I'm looking for? Well, at least you didn't get in the crime. That's true, yeah. At least I went to that side of it. You know, you might be right because it was... It's got to be that.

I don't know what else it would be, right? If you're riding bulls, I would never hop up. on a bowl. You should try it once. How does your body feel after that? Oh, my gracious. Like the very first time you wrote a bull. The very first time I fell off within like two or three seconds.

I didn't even have time. I was so scared. I just was trying to stay on long enough for them to open the gate. I'm like if he gets outside the gate, I consider that a win. But it'll beat you up. It does make you tired. Like your arm that you hold on with, it jolts your whole arm because his power is unlimited.

Like it's, I've never felt anything that strong in my life. Sitting on the back of a bowl, you feel his muscles under you as he's bucking and moving. Like the power is, it's crazy. It's indescribable. You just have to go feel it. I'll hook you out. Thank you. I'll definitely check that out.

I'm not going to do it, though. I'll go on a mechanical bull with all the pads on the ground. I've done that before, too. Okay. Yeah. That's as close as I'm getting. Do a bull? Have you jumped out of an airplane before?

No. I was going to do it from my older brother's 40th birthday that come route down to it within the last few weeks and his sister-in-law reached out the schedule. I'm like, I just know way I'm doing that. That's where you draw the line. That's where I draw the line, yes.

It's falling from however many thousand feet out of the air for no reason. If that parachute doesn't open up, your pancakes, man. I'm on the fence about doing it. Like a part of me wants to, a part of me doesn't. I don't know what I'm going to do. If you do it, you got to find a way to stream it or something.

I would definitely do a live stream. Anything crazy I do is getting live streamed. See, there's your next live stream. You go right a bowl. Oh, did you watch the speech the other night? Is that how you knew I was in Arkansas? Do you look at the community wall at all or the live? I was thumbing through it and I saw the JD.

Yeah, he was there. I was with him too. He got the king bed and I was stuck on a little shitty prison mattress the last few nights, barely getting any sleep, you know? Bring back memories? Yeah, it was like a little cot. Like there was this really nice Airbnb, but I guess they were selling it or something. So it was like under furnished. It was very frustrating.

Okay. But yeah, I couldn't really sleep. And then they're calling me E Diddy now. E diddy? E diddy. Like instead of P, like E for Ian, but my name is spelled with an eye. So they're calling me E. Diddy is what he's been ripping me for being all week. It's crazy, JD.

So when you were in training, do they gun train you too, like other correctional departments? Yeah, we did have to qualify with the gun. We did the gun training. And I grew up shooting, so that part was probably my favorite part. That was my favorite part. But, yeah, we did. You got to train with the, I actually still have my, I kept my ID card from my last qualification. That's the only thing I think I have left from my prison career.

But, yep, we had to qualify with a 223 rifle, the shotgun, and an old handgun. I can't remember what it was, but an old, like, cock the hammer, pull the tricker, like old cowboy gun. It was awful. I can't remember what size it was. I didn't know the Amish had guns or used guns. Yeah. Most of the Amish are pretty big on hunting. And so, yeah, we always had, we did, dad didn't have a ton of guns, but we had like shotguns and a couple rifles and stuff.

Okay. Yep. And you grew up hunting or just doing target practice? Hunting. Yep. Yeah. We used to, we don't know more now, but used to more brothers and I would get together every, either for Thanksgiving or on New Year's Day and all target shooting stuff. But now we're all old and fat and got kids, so kind of goes by the wayside.

I think that's the only thing I wish I wasn't a family. about being able to go hunting just to try it. I've never gone hunting. You don't get, can you get an exemption for going hunting? I don't think so. I think maybe a bow and arrow you can use, but I'm not going through the woods with a bow and arrow. Why, you would think they would make a way to. Well, maybe one day if I get pardoned or something, you know, work towards that.

That's a goal. Don't let your doubt listen to this, but go talk to Trump. He'll get you pardoned. You know he's got it. Yeah. He got lit up. I'm glad you called him out of shit for that. I stay out of politics.

I don't blame you. Everything has been very interesting with what's going on there and stuff. And it's interesting to see how much of the platform does support Trump. Yeah. And I tell my dad, you know, he's one of us. He was convicted felon now too, Trump. So that's true. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's falling the same thing. But I'll never go political. Some people do these political interviews and this and that. Like either side I like to stay new. I agree. I think for myself, the further I stay away from politics, the healthier I am emotionally. Otherwise, it just becomes this crazy sport and you're fighting for this team and I'm mad at you because you're on that team. And it's like, it doesn't matter. Vote for you. Want to vote to? Give me a hug and let's go on. Yeah. And the listeners don't even want me to hear me talk. They just say, shut up. Ask the questions and focus on the guest. Yeah, because it's not the mystery, but sometimes it is nice. There's just, like if I don't listen to a lot of political podcasts just because of that. Like even if it's the ones I agree with or whatever,

I just don't want to, I just don't want to think about it and I want to hear it. Yeah, I agree. So you get on the job now. Tell us about that first day. What did they give you? What are you wearing? What are your thoughts in your mind?

They put us in uniform a few weeks through the academy. They bring us the uniforms that we wear, which are made by the inmates. So they don't like their sizes or you might have like two of this size and three of that size to get them to actually fit you. When you walk through the door

and you go in and you hear those big metal doors lock behind you, that's when reality sets in and you're like, are you not to custom this show? Yeah, of course. Okay. And that door closes in behind you

and you're like, shit, this is real. There's just something, well, you've heard it. Them big metal doors banging shut in a cement building and that echoes through. That's when you know it's real.

I was scared to death for quite a while and then I'll learn to be funny I'll learn pretty quick that if things get intense or if an inmate starts to like people's like hey because I'm a skinny old I was like 170 180 pound or red-headed kid they freaking love me and I was still in training

and there was this big not big but a pretty muscular black guy and I think he was in unit one when I was in training and he was like hey boy you pretty something and I just started playing gay back at him

used my lispy voice and everybody all the other inmates started laughing at him and he called you out and that was the end of that whole unit the rest of my training there everybody's like oh he's cool

and everything just went so luckily by playing into him I got him to shut up and leave me alone but yeah it was ready or not

summer is coming and Wayfair's Memorial Day clearance is on now. Right now through May 25th, get up to 70% off everything home at Wayfair. Plus, score amazing Doorbuster deals all sale long and surprise flash deals on Memorial Day. We're talking thousands of products at every style and budget. Now is the time to save big on must-habs for your patio, backyard, and beyond. These savings won't last. So don't wait. Shop Wayfair's Memorial Day clearance now through May 25th. Wayfair, every style, every home. I'm sorry, what was the question? Just about your first your thoughts, you know.

And how many uniforms do they give you? I don't think I've ever asked a correctional officer that before. I believe we got five. Okay. I'm pretty sure it was five. Yeah. We didn't even get real badges. They had a badge sewed onto your shirts.

I guess back in the day, some officers took their badges and were out in public trying to pretend to be a cop. It's like, well, that's the end of that one, which is sew one on you. Oh, they didn't give you like one in your pamphilip, like, or in your, like, your gun ID or whatever? Nope. Nothing. Nothing. I know they do that for New York.

Patch sewed on, did they? Yeah, they get like an actual like FBI badge, but it's actual, it's like Department of Corrections. Okay. And the feds get that too. You know, it's funny. The guy that worked, the shoe that I was in in Danbury, the head CEO, he lives in my building, my apartment building. For real? We have not had a conversation yet, but I've seen his car.

I've seen him walking, like the timing hasn't lined up. Like, if I'm, like, coming down, he's getting into his car or I pull in, he's, like, get walking in going the elevator. And I know it's him and because he had this name that was like familiar. So I don't know even, I'm kind of scared to go off to. I don't even know what to say. He's got to know I live there by now. I'm sure he's recognized me and stuff.

Yeah, I would, that would be a facet. How was he? Oh, he was great. The nicest guy. I actually kind of feel bad that like he was tossed up for promotions a few times and stuff. I don't know what disposition is at now. And I know he probably wouldn't do a. interview because he still works for the feds but yeah um probably getting boot it yeah i actually get a

a bunch of fed employees that reach out but they're like we got to black out the um the camera and like that's not really my style because a half of it is clips and promoting it and yeah i don't know i just feel like it's not the same yep and listening to just the voice is okay for a little bit but then after while you're like oh come on if you're real let me see your face yeah let me make a connection with you that's what i love about video podcasts yep I agree. I agree. So what unit did they assign you that first? I got assigned the unit to with death row inmates, which was a good, I don't know if I already said that or not,

but that was a good unit to be assigned to because it was a lot more quiet. But, yep, the serge over that unit got to pick, he got first pick of all the new officers coming in. And I didn't know this, but I guess they keep kind of a report card on you when you're going through the academy. and so he had already picked me just from going through the academy by the time I got there I was already assigned a unit to so I got lucky

So that was common for new recruits to work death row Sarge liked to pick him new because he said he could teach him the way he wanted to He didn't have to untrain you from something that they Because when I first walked in

And started he sat in the office with me It's like all that stuff you learn in the academy Get that shit out of your head Now, here's what we do here. And so, yeah, yeah. Now, here's a good guy. Are the inmates locked down 24-7? Are you removing inmates?

What's death row like? Death row has a, they have a, in Tennessee, they have a level A, a level B, and a level C inmate. The level A gets, I think they get like five or six hours or rec time. You can be up to a dozen inmates per one officer, like out in the pods and out in the open. they have their own kitchen in the unit and so the level A inmates would be the ones

doing the cooking. Level A is do the cleaning. They have their own law library there so an A level does the library so those guys are out right in a monsoon around you all the time. The level B had some more restrictions. I think they only got two or three hours or rec time.

They were restricted how many could be on the wreck yard at the same time and they had to be cuffed whenever they were out from behind the door. And on level C had to be cuff, leg shackles, and only one per cage on the rec yard for like an hour, hour and a half a day. So, but it worked really well to encourage good behavior from within the unit. And I think that's why the unit ran as smooth as it did. Because you're on death row, you're not going anywhere unless you're purpose pain.

But I would love to meet that guy or meet him again because I was his CEO. You know purpose pain? No. I just laughed at the name. That sounds like a crazy name. He is a, was a death throw inmate and has gotten his sentence overturned. And I believe he's a complete free citizen now. But I got distracted on.

But yeah, so they have. And then they had the like the super max inmate. They only had one of, had two of those, but only one that was on death row when I was there, Henry Hodges, that was behind these public information. I'm sure I can give his full name, right? But he was behind what they call a special pie flap where he never had actual contact, even with the CEO, he would have to put his shackles through. And yeah, he was a pretty intense guy.

It was the only guy in there that I was genuinely scared to death of. That guy was crazy. What's the feeling like when you're making around walking down death row? Is it like an eerie feeling or like what is that? That's so for Tennessee, it's so opposite from what you would think because of their levels. And they're all older inmates, not all of them, but a lot of them are. because Tennessee, their guys will sit on death row for 20, 30 years. And so it was by far the quietest running unit and the most respectful out of all of them.

It's so it, at first it was eerie, but after you're there for a little bit, you realize that you're all just human beings. They're just on that side of the wall. Like, you don't try to hurt me. I don't try to hurt you. And so the first little bit, it was intense. But after that, you get to know them because they don't go anywhere. So it's just you and your other COs and what? 89, I think inmates ahead of that time.

And so you get to know them. When you're in there five, six days a week, you get to know them and you know which ones you can trust, which ones you can't. And so it was, they're by the end, I might be the only CEO that hugged a death row inmate. But by the end, when I left there, Cecil Johnson's been executed since then, he came up and it's like, give me a hug or something like that. I was getting ready to leave and I gave him a hug and then he got, I'd be in my last day there. He got his last execution date set and then they executed him following that. But yeah, I like telling that story.

I got a hug from a death row inmate. What were some of the individuals there for on death row? I believe in Tennessee you had to be, um, shoot, my brain's dead. You have to have a murder with like a premeditated murder to get death sentence in to see. People change. But I think, yeah, they've all been through the court system, so I'm sure they all killed somebody and premeditated it. But when you have 20 years on death row, people change in 20 years. So that's the difficult part. When you're like, I know you killed someone. I read

your story. I read your victims family. But when you're around them now, you're like, they're a very genuine person and it's a it's an odd thing you feel compassion for them you really do yeah yeah and as a CEO like that's the opposite I don't want to hear you say that and but at the end of the day they're a person they're just a human being that's on they're just on the opposite side of the wall and they screwed up 20 years ago or 10 years ago or and some of them are still bad some them are just tricking you but I learned really quick that that's a person and if you treat them like a person they'll treat you like a person then you get hugs from them.

Was it hard looking at some of these cases and putting maybe your personal feelings aside to show them, compassion and care because they are still a person at your job to treat them that way? I don't know if I struggle as much with treating. Yeah, some of them it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that would be a little bit difficult. I didn't read up on, I've read up on.

I've read up on more of them since I've been away from there than I did when I was there. I might have only done a half a dozen or so on my time there just because, well, number one, I didn't know that much about the internet back then. And I guess I just didn't. I wasn't curious enough, I guess. What would happen when you got on shift? What was like a typical shift working death row? I worked second shift.

So we go through our security check-in, same way the visitors do, through the same check-ins. and go down to your, walk down to your unit, and they issue you, your keys, your radio. I don't think we even got Mace, if I remember. I think we only had the keys in a radio. We were stripped down pretty low because they said whatever you carry an inmate can get away from and use on you.

So we'd go in and then the A-level inmates were on the rec yard when I would get there. So you'd go into the office, like check in, get your stuff, and go out on the rec yard, and relieve whoever the daylight officer was that was out. Because even though they were in cages on the rec yard, we would still have to go. We still have to be an officer out there on the yard,

physically there with them. You were always outside the cages. We had to be like in the wreckyard area. Go relief them. I think my shift started two, if I remember, right. We were out there to like four, four 30. You bring them in. They do their showers, their cleaning stuff.

the cooking inmates would start cooking and then I believe we served dinner at six and then what was after that? I think they had another short wreck time after that during the summer. Yeah, because in the wintertime they let him out in the center of the pod. So what do you guys call them? The pod or a unit. Okay. Yep. The level A's would come out in the pod and they'd play cards and do their games and stuff until like, I think it was like 7.15 because they think we did an 8 o'clock count. So they want everybody back in their cells by then to do their last count at the end of the shift. So, yeah. Does the job get boring, like doing the same thing every day, just kind of walking around? Extremely boring. It's extremely boring, which is kind of the danger of it because people get bored,

they get sloppy, they get disrespectful toward the inmates because they've seen this same guy and he's asked him the same question a million times. And the inmates start picking up on that. And you're like, this guy doesn't care about his job. And then, yeah, it's, it, it is, it's the most boring, exciting job you'll ever do. What were some of like the shocking things you've seen there? Ooh. How dark can I go? It's dark as he want.

Okay. You can edit it out if it's too dark. The, the most gruesome thing I ever saw there, I've seen guys brought fecese all over the inside of their cell. That's kind of dark and they'll strip down button naked. and rub it on their bodies because they know you're going to come in on them. And so they're like, well, at least you're getting dirty. That's pretty gross. Pouring feces out from under the door.

We had the solid doors. There was no bars in them. Pour feesies out from under the door trying to get you. Probably the worst thing I saw. The most, yeah, would have been, there was a guy down in Unit 3 was right across from us. They called the code, whatever the code was for medical. Now I went escorted the nurse down there and the guy that tried to commit suicide.

He was sitting on his toilet with his wrist slit and blood. We knew which door he would cell he was in because the blood was running out from under his cell door. That's pretty gross. It's incredibly sad when a human gets to that point in life to where you're just like, and especially like if you're in prison and because you're completely by yourself and that's where you, but they did save him. They wrapped his arms up and got him out of there in an emergency or the, ER and

but that was probably the grossest thing I saw just off top of my head. Did you ever feel in danger yourself or is there ever a moment you felt in danger? Yeah. Especially when I was new but when you walk into when I did the overtime work in like unit one

and stuff where they had the most rowdy inmates and you walk into this two story high metal building full of people locked in rooms and they were really big, they're on kicking the doors and screaming at you. And so you just, the whole thing is just insanely loud of people screaming all kinds of insanity. And then kicking, slamming the metal door in the empty concrete building will just, the sound is so loud, you can't talk to the person

next to you. That's intimidating. Even though they're all locked up, that's still really intimidating knowing that, and you don't stand a chance. I was a freaking, what, like I said, a 170 pound red-headed kid that never worked out a day in my life. Then you walk in there and you expect some guy that's 270 pounds jacked working out on the rec yard every day for two hours and you expect to be able to go in and you don't stand a chance. Do you feel like you got the proper training for the job? Oh, absolutely not. Not in a million years.

You probably shouldn't have said that that aggressively. But there's no way. No, if you, they don't, they teach you very little hand-to-hand combat. there's not really any qualifications on, like you have to be able to pass a certain, like a skills, physical skills test or nothing. Like it's, no, absolutely not. It would take, if an inmate really wanted to a young, healthy guy

in those units, I don't know how the feds was, but in like those level guys that just work out all day to keep their self sane, it would take five officers to take one of those guys down hand to hand. So, no. Now, did you work your whole time in death row or do they move you around the different units? Are you working in different facilities? What did that look like?

I worked in my normal assigned unit was death row the whole time where they wouldn't move us every 30 days because death row had four pods within the unit. So they wouldn't move you to a different pod every month. But our full-time assigned unit was to death row. yeah but we would do i would do overtime i believe i worked overtime at all the other there were six units there total and i did overtime i can't tell you for sure i did in unit five so maybe delete that but i know i did overtime at all the other unit one three four and six so to answer your question i was assigned to unit five for my five days a week but i would work overtime in the other units and when you're working overtime after doing you know a full shift how do you feel

like do you feel at your best or like what does that you know what does that look like no um why they're really going to hate me if anybody from there ever listens to this well they got to change it you know like i would see correctional officers that worked you know a 10 12 hour shift and they're getting ready to go home and bam that you see them walk in the tear again and what happened i got mandated overtime someone called out yes you're exhausted yep you're very exhausted I was lucky to have the lieutenant that ran night shift. With me working second shift, the lieutenant that ran night shift had a lot of respect for me.

I'm not exactly sure why, but him and I clicked pretty well, pretty much from the get-go. And so he was really good at if he would be like, hey, if you stay, I'll do, and he would make sure that I'd go to an easy place because you worked eight hours and then to stay another eight hours,

that's 16 hours. That's a long shift. Then you've got to get up and be back in eight hours from the time you go home. because your shift starts again. So he was good at keeping us in a more quieter or better places because each unit also had like a, excuse me, had a control center. And so he would usually try to get me into a control center because then you're, I guess that's still risky because you're up there open. We have control of inmates' doors.

But you're not on the ground doing your rounds and stuff. so that made it easier with the ram declaration of deals we're pledging our allegiance to the american people with great deals on the ram 1500 back with the legendary hemi v8 and the ram heavy duty with the available commons turbo diesel delivering 1,075 pound feet of torque all backed by a 10 euro

100,000 mile power drain limited warranty because nothing stops ram hurry in for the declaration of deals excludes biv applies to 2026 mile gear vehicles non-transferable visit mopar dot com for complete details and a copy of the power drain limited Comynch is a registered trademark of Cummins, and Hemming, a registered trademark of that's C-A-U-S-L-C. A little long answer short, it's still rough. Now, I believe you had worked an escape or you were in there when there was an escape that happened?

They had an escape up the road. There was one, two, there was four prisons right there on that same road, and they had an escape up out of this closed now. It used to be called Charles Bass, Bass or Boss, I think you pronounced the Bass. they had an escape out of there and so they pulled officers out of the other three prisons to respond to that. So, yep, I got to work and escape. So you got pulled from to work the escape?

Yes, yep. So what happened? That was my extra shift because my normal shift was, my normal shift was from 2 to 10 and it was like 8 p.m. when they locked our prison down and called for us for, I'm not sure who got the pick who went up,

but that's when they called for us extra people to go over there. It was fun and exciting to get to work and escape, but it was also what they did for at least where I went to, they knew roughly where the inmate was at. There was a glass fort, a Ford glass plant that was just up the road from the prison. And they knew he was in that area somewhere.

And so they took me and dropped me off They had basically surrounded the area with staff. And I got posted on the back when you're facing the old the walls, it's the old prison that's in just outside of Nashville. They've shot movies and stuff in it. When you're facing that prison on the far right-hand site in the back corner outside the wall, which is where they posted me. It was raining. It was rain like the whole night. And I just stood there and they wouldn't make their rounds to come check, make sure everybody was still okay.

but you just stood there with a radio and a pistol and a flashlight. And you just stood there. So it wasn't very cool when you explain it out. And we're like, I got to work and escape. Like, that sounds pretty cool. So. Did you think about what you would do if he ran towards you or anything? Like, were you thinking about that in your mind while you were standing there?

Yes. It's going to get dark too. But because of the way they train you and probably all law enforcement is that, way and that's one reason that anyway I did and this sounds really dark but standing there waiting on him I didn't want him to approach me but I knew we had the right to fire at him if he did and so in a crazy way you're kind of like it's not that you want to but you kind of want to because this is the only time you'll ever get that chance to be completely legal and that sounds extremely dark.

And I hadn't really thought it threw out like that in my head, but knowing the feeling looking back. So I was mentally, I was ready for it, probably too ready, to be honest, because that's also a person. And when you had that inmate that escaped from Tennessee, you had him one of him. Dane. Dane, yeah. Dane Gentry.

When you had him on, I'm like, oh, shit, what if that's the same inmate? And so I was listening to the episode, and it wasn't because he is, he escaped. through work release and his other inmate actually escaped from the lunch line. But while going through his interview, it was the first time that it like, I guess it really hit me going, dude, they put me out to hunt down because we were told,

like, because if it, in Tennessee, if the inmate is outside the wall, you don't really even have to wait for them to surrender. If they're running away from you, especially, you fire at him.

Like, that's just, and that's really dark when you think about it. But when I was, when you had Dane on, I'm like, dude, that's the first time in my brain that I connected. That sounds bad on my part. But that's the first time that I connected in my brain,

that that was a human being I was out there looking for, hearing Dane's story. So I owed Dana. Thank you for, it just humanized it. And if I was in prison, I'd have to be in lockdown because I'd be escaping every time I had a chance. I would not do mentally very well behind the, cement room.

So now even though that wasn't your unit, you were working, the whole prison still goes on lockdown when there's an escape. Like the whole compound. He wasn't even from our prison. He was from a neighboring prison. And you still went on lockdown? Yep.

They put the whole, I believe all the four prisons on lockdown because then they pull as much staff as they could. So probably part of the lockdown was for to pull more staff, to give them more people to help track the guy down. And they did. They had him track down and caught by like 2 a.m. and he escaped, I believe, around 7 p.m. So they worked fairly quickly. And he escaped with no plan. He just went

and I guess hid in the woods and then got cold and went into the fort plant and got a heart hat off the wall and went in the break room, just pretending trying to fit in. And they were like, uh, I called 911 and got in. So did they say how he escaped? Did you guys ever find out? If I remember correctly, he had escaped through they were in the lunch line going from their unit because they would walk them to the chow hall

and he escaped out of if I remember the story right he escaped out of the chow hall line and went back and cut a hole through the fence and crawled through the fence and got out. I think there was two of them that had attempted it but he was the only one that made it out

and if I also remember the story right he was gone for like two hours before they missed him so. And did he just Did you guys seal off like those areas after the escape? Like what happens in the prisons after an escape like that? You're talking about at the specific prison where you escape from? Well, and the one you were working at, do they automatically put new security things in place?

Does it get stricter? It was definitely more intense for the next one. I think we stayed on lockdown for a couple days after the escape. Excuse me. they they they do man today i feel like i'm struggling with my language english is my second language so i'll look for words a lot they i guess to send a signal to the rest of them to not attempt that we were on lockdown for a couple days afterward um it just sends a strong message to everybody else like hey if you try this everybody around me is going to suffer and it helps well you know that

it helps keep the other inmates in check to where they're like hey you're going to fuck it up for all of us don't do this don't try to get out so So, yeah. Yep. And what does it mean to be on lockdown? What does that look like from a correctional officer's perspective? Honestly, as a CO, it's probably a little bit easier. On our unit, it was easier because otherwise you got to stand on a rec yard.

This is how lazy I was. I didn't have to stand outside in the hot sun for four or five hours. I could just be in the thing. And then the work inmates, we let out the bare minimum to do the cooking and to keep up with that stuff, but otherwise they were locked in their individual cells for, I don't think they even, they let them out for showers, but I don't believe we even let them out for any wreck time at all. So it was very intense. And it, and it's a lot of pressure. And over the long haul, it doesn't, it tears down relationships between inmates and officers because

inmates value their wreck time. That's the only time they get to get out of their cell to go. And so you take that away from them. You can do it for a little bit, but then after a while, you better have a dig on good reason for or they're going to want their justice. And rightly so. You're locked in a cement building.

At least I can just put you out in a cage. Yeah. It's interesting what we do to people, you know. That's very interesting. Yeah. So when do you start to get in your mind that this wasn't a good fit job-wise for you? Because you didn't make it that long.

You made it that long. I would say probably by eight or so months, and I didn't have family in the area, made it a lot more difficult. But I don't think there was a specific thing, like a specific event or anything, that triggered me to go, this is not for me, but it's just being away from family. I need people. I need relationships and stuff. And I got in my own head too much because I didn't know hardly anybody else in Nashville.

And then working in like a law enforcement environment, you become, it doesn't take very long before you start looking at people different. Even free world people at the bar and stuff. You're always sitting with your back to the wall. You're always like counting people. Some dude goes to the bathroom for an extra two seconds. You're like, why has he been in there that long? Or like he, you know what I mean? It just makes you watch people too much.

And I'm too lazy for that intensive thing. So like I said, probably eight or so months into it, I realized that it's just too intense. I can't. I'm too lazy. So how do you make it an extra like, you know, five or six months after having those thoughts? Did you try to give it another chance? Honestly, my apartment contract was for a year. And so I would have been stuck paying whatever the fee was for leaving early.

And so I just stayed there and suffered it out for. for the year. And they were that lieutenant, the work night shift. He was also in charge of their, they called it the cert team. I don't know what it stood for, but the guys that would dress up to go in on people. He was trying to talk me in this day and he's like,

oh, after you're here for a year, you can sign out for that. My serge was like, after you're here for a year, you can make corp, I think it was corporal. The next thing above officer. And they're both like, we'll help you. When I turn in my two week notice, Sarge was like, I'll even, if you reverse it,

I guarantee you a spot. I used to work with the guy that runs the transportation. That was the closest I got to stay was to do transporting inmates because that sounded cool. You get good clearance as doing that. But at the end of the day, it was too far away from family and stuff. And I needed normalcy. How do you feel on your last day? Oh, I felt like I was leaving prison, literally.

It was a good feeling. It was, oh, man, if there's other COs listening to this circle, I think I'm the worst CEO in the world. And I wasn't a pushover CO. I was a fairly strict down the line with it, but I wasn't an aggressive. I learned pretty quick that if you treat them like human beings, they'll treat you in return like human beings. And you don't have to get aggressive or get. You know what I mean? It just people respond to respect.

And so leaving there the last day, that and I didn't have a lot of friends in the area outside of the inmates. And so I don't really say I was friends with them. but you kind of feel like you're leaving friends behind. That's a bad way to award it. But you feel like you're, you know you're very aware that you're turning over a new leaf in life by leaving there. So if that makes sense. Yeah.

Did you feel relieved too? I felt very relieved to be leaving. But at the same time, I felt kind of sad because there's a lot of people stuck there that'll never leave. Do any of the inmates right to you? After, did any in the inmates write to you that were getting out, or did you stay in contact with anyone? No, nope, not at all. And with death row, we had very tight restrictions on, and I didn't.

I was scared anyway. I didn't. None of them even knew that I was from Indiana. They knew I wasn't from that area. And they used to ask me, like, where are you from? Like, what are your, who is that girl in that progressive commercial? You used to call me her all the time. I don't remember a girl.

shoot anyway no I did not keep any contact with any of them I would love to meet

Purvis pain now since he's out I just think it'd be whether he did the crime or not I don't know I have no idea

but I find it interesting that I would find it interesting to get to meet a guy

that was on the backside of the wall and that had a date set at one point in life when he was

going die. And so he has a total second chance in life. I have no idea what he's doing, what he's up to, but I would love to meet him again. Just to, we're on the same side, you know? We're just two dudes going through life now. I find it interesting. Do you miss that, uh, you know, adrenaline of the job? Or do you miss whatever you were searching for in that job? And do you feel like you, you fulfilled that aspect of it? There is moments I miss the adrenaline, but I would have to be really desperate to feed my family before I would go back to it. So, yeah, I do, I do sometimes miss the adrenaline.

I learned there also that authority does either one of two things to people. People will either, like, get a high on it or it will humble you. And at least I think it humbled me. Because when you're 170 pounds scrony little red-headed kid and you walk, walk up to a guy that's like six foot six and shred it and you ask him to do something and he doesn't bat an eye and just goes and does it. You're like, holy shit, he could have totally just been like, no, I've killed other people. I don't fuck you too. I don't care. But he doesn't. He just goes and does it because you have the uniform on. And that's a crazy, that's a weird psychic it plays in your head. It makes you, it made me check myself a lot more to not abuse the power when you realize what you have. what have you learned about the criminal justice system from working there I think I've learned

there are some people that should not be in open society like an open out in the free world but I don't think what we're doing is working I don't think locking a person in a cage really changes anything if anything it makes you even more crazy because now you're

locked in a cage like as mentally humans are not made to be in a box but I sound like I'm a strong anti-prison guy on this one and I'm not I just I just think that's a lot of people in there that probably should not be

I'm not saying they didn't break the law but I'm saying probably that law shouldn't have been there that's my two cents Yeah I mean I think there's there's a lot of laws where just the average day person doesn't realize that they could end up in prison for that. Yes. Like anyone could fall victim

to the criminal justice system. Yep. We just weren't. Nobody else. The excitement of moving is real, but so is the complexity. After all, moving isn't about cutting corners. It's about doing things right.

That's where United Van Lines, America's number one mover, comes in. United specializes in full service moves that take care of everything, professionally, precisely, and with no surprises. From expert packing and custom crating to furniture assembly, electronics installation, auto transport, debris removal, and secure, short, or long-term storage.

Your belongings are protected with full value protection and high-value inventories. Your move is guided by professional move coordinators who keep you in the loop, and your belongings are handled by experienced van operators and crews, focused on care, not shortcuts. It's coast-to-coast strength, worldwide capability, Precision, care for every move, every mile. Make your next move with United, America's number one mover. Get a quote at United VanLines.com.

This summer, A.G. Jeans looks to California Wine Country for inspiration, where style feels effortless and time naturally slows down. The summer 2026 collection reflects that mindset with premium denim washes, relaxed silhouettes, and refined details designed for real moments. From branching among the vines to spontaneous tastings and sunset dinners, that turn into memorable nights. Each piece balances comfort and sophistication, created to move easily through the day

and feel just as right well into the evening. The season is marked by a special collaboration with Napa Valley's Stony Hill Vineyard, an iconic estate with a timeless sense of place. Inspired by Stony Hill's understated character, the limited edition capsule features raw salvage denim for men and women, along with sun-fated sweatshirts,

hats, and versatile essentials. Like a fine wine, AG denim is designed to evolve beautifully over time. growing richer with everywhere. AG's summer 2026 collection is available now at AGGgreens.com. Use code summer 15 for 15% off, even if you've shopped with us before. There to see you do it at the right time. Yeah. So, yeah.

Do you feel like you can relate to a lot of the guests and individuals on our show because of that job you've had? Oh, yeah, by far. Yep, yep. And I find it because I've never watched or listened to shows like that before. So whenever you do have people on that have been on the opposite side of the door from me, I find it interesting because it's a new perspective. I didn't really think about that much before I went to work there. And a lot more since I started watching your show.

What about the correctional officers that come on the show? I think you've had some of them on that kind of see it the way I do. Some of them don't. Some of them still enjoy. And they work in a whole different environment. I worked in a very, for a prison environment, it was a very soft environment. And so I have a different perspective on from what those do. I had another good friend that worked in Indiana for the state prison there.

And his experience was completely different from mine. I think he also only lasted a couple of years. But his experience was like that old school open bars, inmates throwing the soaked up, what they call that? When he soak a roll of toilet paper in the toilet and you throw it at people? I have never heard of that ever. Oh, yes, that's big in the. man, you've been to easy prisons apparently. No, there's a word for that.

I can't remember what they call it. But he was in a lot more of that stuff. Like he was in a very aggressive prison. And so his perspective would be completely different from mine. Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the big problems is that every state is so different. Like it's not streamlined or, you know, everything is just different. Exactly. Federal state, each state you go to, each federal prison you went to, it's kind of all over the place.

Correct. Yep. You were never, were you ever in maximum security? No, just a low was the highest I want. Okay. I mean, the detention centers are a little bit rougher because you're locked down. You're in the units and the pods and stuff. That's more like what you would see on like a 60 days in type of thing. Okay. Were you in your own cell then when you were on lockdown? Yes. So you're in unit like two-man cells with the door that like you were describing.

Two-man, okay. Yeah, there were two-man cells. you rarely ever had your own cell and they would lock you in for the counts and whatnot. But at the lows, it's like 12-man bunks or open dorms. They had two-man rooms if you'd been there for a while. Okay, probably the two.

In my opinion, as on outside, the two-man rooms would be better than the open bunks. I don't think I got sleeping open bunk. Even if I'd be friends with everybody there, it's just something about laying down sleeping with, in an open room like that with a bunch of other people. Yeah, and there's no lock on the door. anyone can come in.

Oh, my. Yeah, it's an old army barracks. It's three floors high that you're not locked in. You can roam that building the whole night. Guys will go out, watch. If you have a cool guard, they'll put the TV on, anything like that too. You go to the bathroom, do whatever, take a shower or 2 a.m. Wow.

Yeah, it's a scary place. We used to, you know, wake up late, play dice or we would have smuggled sim cards in and watch TV in the morning. You're making me want to go home and double-check my taxes. What did your wife think about this? Were you together when you were working there? No. Her and I met in 2015 and I was there in 2008 and 9. Her knowing me now, like I've asked her before, because she's pretty quiet. And she was like, it just doesn't fit the person that she knows me now as. So probably if I didn't have pictures or proof of it, she wouldn't have believe me at first. You thought I was just lying to her. But I do. I have a picture on my Facebook page of it. Otherwise, I probably think I was lying to me.

You know, they always have that saying. Like, it's always, like, it's always the ones you at least expect that end up, like, in prison sometimes. Like, people say that about me. They would never expect me to go to prison. And you just made me think of, like, that can be applied to correctional officers, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I would have never guessed you to be an former inmate, not in a million years. What I have. Yeah. Even watching your show, like, if I didn't hear your stories, I'm like, this guy's full of shit. There's no way he's been to prison. Yeah, I'll still see like some comments on YouTube, new watchers who don't know my backstory.

They'll be like, what does this guy know about prison? Or he's a dweeb or anything like that. Yeah. It's pretty funny. Yeah. Do you have any advice you want to give to, you know, former inmates, maybe even current inmates that are watching? And then also the parents of those individuals

because you kind of, you know, grab the attention of both sides of that because you've been in that facility just on the, other side of it. Yeah. Advice to an inmate would be chill out and just relax and let the time pass. And that's easy for me to say not being the one in their situation. But I know at least in Tennessee, as long as you're on the lower level security, you get more

days credited toward you. So if you're a minimum security there, I believe you get, I think you get 16 days a month credited towards your sentence. so just chill out lay low relaxed don't get in fights that's all easy to say when you're outside the wall but yeah time does change shouldn't say time changes but time does pass it's that way with everything on life you think you're living in hell but a year later two years later you're a different circumstance and life moved on you're glad you hold yourself together during it And to the parents?

Support them. Even if they, even if, well, that's tough to do and that's controversial. But I think even if you think they did the crime they're locked up for, at the end of the day, there's still a human being that still needs support and especially from family. Like as a family member is not your job to, I would say it's not your job, the judge or to carry out a sentence on them. it just they did what they did and now help them out the other side of it

and hopefully they'll learn from it and move on well David thank you so much man for sitting down with me today this was a very smooth conversation man you're easy to talk to oh thanks and uh to think you were nervous oh dude I'm still nervous oh you can't you can't even see it you could tell it's always nervous yeah you're a very cool calm and collected

so you survived was it what you expected it to be Well, time went by fast and I expected to be. Yeah, it flew by. I feel like I repeated myself more than I expected to. Oh, don't overthink that. It was good. It was a good first experience. I appreciate it.

You're a good interviewer. Thank you, man. Yeah. And definitely keep in touch. And you have my number. And if you ever want me to get you on anyone else's show, just reach out. Okay. Hook me up with.

I would love to at least sit down and talk to Dane. We're going to get you in touch with Dane. And Dane Gentry, if you guys haven't listened to that episode, it's the I Escape Prison one. He was in a Tennessee prison, multiple ones, and it was a pretty interesting story. Yes, yep. And he was at River Bend,

and that's the prison I was at. So I would love to talk to him at least. Definitely. And safe travels back, man. Thank you. Appreciate your time.