Locked In with Ian Bick - Ex-Rikers Island Guard Reveals Shocking Undercover Experience as Inmate on 60 Days In | Qwell

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

Qwell, a former Rikers Island prison guard, shares what 60 Days In is really like. In this episode, he talks about his undercover experience as an inmate, navigating prison life, and uncovering truths about the justice system. Qwell provides insight from both sides of the bars, discussing the challenges faced by correctional officers and inmates. This conversation explores life behind bars, undercover missions, and the reality of working in one of the nation's jails. #RikersIsland #60DaysIn #PrisonStories #UndercoverExperience #CorrectionsOfficer #LifeBehindBars #PrisonDocumentary #TrueCrimeInsights Connect with Qwell: https://www.instagram.com/thereal_qwell/?hl=en Thank you to our sponsors this week: PrizePicks: Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/IANBICK & download the app today & use code IANBICK to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup! Rocket Money: Visit https://rocketmoney.com/lockedin to cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Experiences from 60 Days In and Rikers Island 00:08:00 Sympathy for Inmates: A Discussion 00:15:55 Challenges in Becoming NYPD Officer 00:23:55 Overcoming Personal and Legal Challenges 00:32:58 Discovering Unexpected Subscription Costs 00:40:14 The Challenges of Being a CO: Inmate Towel Policy 00:48:06 Experiences and Challenges of Being a CO in Brooklyn 00:55:58 Inside the 60 Days In Experience 01:03:33 Life Inside the 'Perfect Jail' 01:11:41 Changes in Prison Policies 01:19:13 The Reality of Family and Prison 01:27:56 Should Law Enforcement Experience Life Behind Bars? 01:35:31 Loyalty and Consequences in Street Life 01:43:06 Reality of Growing Up in Tough Environments 01:50:50 Law Enforcement and Community Relations 01:58:28 Navigating Relationships and Street Life Realities 02:06:12 Choosing Your Own Path in Life Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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our first official 60 days in guy that actually did the whole 60 days in. Exactly. I'm making history. I'm the first guy to do the JR program into a program on 60 days in. And I'm first gone on your podcast. Yeah, and you were also a correctional officer at Rikers. At Rikers. C-74, baby.

Shout out to everybody C-74 at home, man. That must have been a big episode for 60 days in to get you on the show. Yeah, definitely was. I mean, how many correctional officers do that go undercover on 60 days in? Shoot, a lot of correctional officers don't. I mean, Raggers Island correction officers probably could do 60 days in

with their eyes closed, you know, because it's just, especially like where I did it at, you do it in Utah where you got a gel that's ran like perfectly, no issues, you know, everything is how a gel's supposed to be.

Shoot, you can do that with your eyes closed, no issues. Yeah, I feel like this isn't like the reunion of love is blind, like where the reality starts sit down with you after.

And you talk about the whole thing. Yeah, so that's just what it is, man. Working, no going there, going to Utah, it was a different vibe just for me, especially, you know, being black, especially like getting on that plane. Like you got ready since the energy was just like, oh man, like this is about to be crazy. So did you grow up in New York City? A great born and raised, Brooklyn, New York. Brooklyn, okay. Shout out to Brooklyn.

Shout out. I always got to shout to my dad's from Brooklyn. Oh, from Brooklyn? Yeah, he grew up in Brooklyn. Yeah, got a shout out Brooklyn, man. Brooklyn is where people is made, man. Greatness is made, man. I'm saying? So, you know, when you're Brooklyn, you just built different. And you were just telling me you come back every two weeks from your current residence all the way over here just to get a haircut in New York City.

You got to stay loyal to your barber, man. You got to stay low you to your barber. That's awesome. Yeah, you know, other barbors, you know, they off the wall now, you know what I'm saying? Like, they want to charge you $100 for a haircut. So, yeah, I'd rather just take my little ride, you know what I mean? So. Well, you must like to drive then.

Yeah, you know, it's a cool little, you know, sometimes driving is a piece of mind, too. you know, get to chill, relax, lay back, just enjoy some music, you know, put on some jazz or something. Yeah, as you get older, the longer drives seem shorter. Yeah, like, I can do a two or three hour car ride pretty easily now. Yeah, like, it's just, like, it's just nothing to me. Like, I just do real quick, you know, so. Who did you grow up with? Um, I grew up with my mother and father.

I grew up with my mother and father. Like, you know, I was, um, I was a silverspoon kid, as my cousins would say, you know, so, you You know, I grow up my mom's and pops. They was, you know, my mom's and pops. They well-known people in Brooklyn. You know, everybody knows my mom's and pops. You know, they never heard nothing from me. Everything was out in the open.

They had me young, too. So being that they had me young, you know, I was always at Grandma's house. You know, I was always with my cousins and stuff like that. So, you know, I was always, you know, and always the fly, you know, the fly kid. So I always had little issues with my cousins and stuff like that. But, you know, I go with my mom's positive.

I got a big family, you know, big, big family. My cousins, they love me to death. You know, my uncles love me to death. So I go up with my own, one of my uncles. He was like the black sheep. But, you know, he was the guy that taught me everything I know. Everything I know, you watch the show. You hear, be like, oh, that's the first thing my uncle told me how to do

is make a shank with a toothbrush. You know, so, and that was just him. You know, he'd tell me, it's people that's like me out here that don't care. Like, I don't care. Like, if I had something, you got, I'm taking it. Like, that just was him. You know, and he told me, like, somebody want to take something from you? Don't let nobody take nothing from you.

That's not what we do. You know, you fight back, whatever. So that's how I was raised. Did you have siblings at all? Yeah, I grew up my little brother. I got one little brother. Call him Buka. My name is Buka.

Yeah, that's my, that's my, that's like my, he was like my first son, because he was always with me, you know, and I always had to protect him and stuff like that. till this day here grown man, and I still like my baby brother, like I protect him at all course, you know. And, you know, even me being in the law enforcement field, I still think about him, you know, I got to protect him because you got to dick had cops out here.

It's just what it is. So, you know, when I do my job, I just always think about him and I think about my family, you know. So I make sure I always treat people with respect, you know. So that was the main thing. Like every time I do my job, I think about my family. family. How would I want somebody to treat my family? You know, so it's good. You know, I love my little

brother. It's my guy. How would people describe you growing up as a kid? Um, I was a chill kid. You know, I was chill. Um, I wouldn't say I was a, a street kid like a, no, I was, you know, on a street, like a street guy or like in the streets like that. No, but I was outside, you know, I used to go outside. I was the guy that hung around everybody. I was cool with everybody. I was the guy that And people could be like, nah, he good. Like, nah, he's good, leave him alone. Like, you know, he, I'd rather be that guy. You know, I was never a tough guy now like that,

but I was just always the cool guy. But if you want the problem, we could have a problem. I don't have an issue with giving you a problem. Or, you know, if you want to take it there, we could take it there. But you got to be prepared we'll come with it. Because, you know, I was, like I said, I had a tight family, had a big family.

So I was always, I, you know what I'm saying? So, I mean, did I run into situations? Yeah, I ran into situations. situations. I was involved in the stabbing in sixth grade. So it's like you grow up, sometimes you just can't avoid situations. It's just going to happen. Did you have friends that were getting into trouble and kind of going down a bad path? Yeah, everybody, everybody gets to that phase, you know, it's just a phase. Like everybody gets into a situation, everybody upgrowing is different. You know what I'm saying? It don't even matter if you have your

mother and father in your life because you can look at somebody like, like Big Meach, right? Parents, both work hard, working people, go to church every Sunday, and look, you just want to make money. You know, he wasn't, and I love Big Meach. And I, now, people always be like, oh, how are you in Little? I'm like, nah, Big Meach was different. You know, he was raised to be a good dude. And that's what he did. He was a good dude. He made, she wanted everybody to eat. He wanted everybody to shine. You know, he didn't really hurt God, he hurting people. That wasn't his thing. And he got a rich child. Because people bought from him.

He ain't forcing nobody to do nothing. People made him rich, so it's not his fault. But I just tell people, it don't matter how you grow up. You're going to get in a situation. If an opportunity is presented to you, you're going to take it. That's just how life works. Or sometimes you just get caught up in a lifetime with you're going to do what you do. You know what I mean?

Because it's an opportunity to make money. So everybody's going to make money. And some people, they get stuck in the game and some people get out. Some people know how to make money. Once they make their money, I'm done with the game. Because I always tell people, there's a lot of city workers, MTA workers, sanitation workers, especially in New York. You never hear their story because they can't talk about it because they're doing good now.

But people have been in the game and then they got out, low key. But everybody, some people get stuck because the street life is the life that everybody respect the most. You know what I'm saying? everybody like the street life that's what people glorify because the dude that's doing good people are going to be like oh you're doing good for yourself that's good

you know people are going to say that but and they don't care about you they go look at you and be like yeah you got a job I see you doing your thing all right cool but the dudes that's in the street everybody got more sympathy for you know what I'm saying

because the dude that's out here working hard busting his butt stressing out how to pay bills he can't get no help Nobody's in hugging him. But the dude that's in the street, everybody like, ah, yeah, you got to figure it out, man. We got to help you. You know what I'm saying?

Just like dudes that go to jail. And that's where we get to the Rockies Island part. You know what I'm saying? You see all these celebrities showing sympathy this dude that's minister's society. And at first before I even became a CO, I used to be that guy. Like, oh, you know, you watched the CLEE brought a documentary.

And you're like, oh, the CEO was just, treating people so bad. They doing this to people. They're just beating them up. You know, I used to be that guy. But then once you worked that job, you're like, hmm, visit the COs. You think it's the COs in?

I think there are some bad COs. You think there's bad COs. But I also think of some of these stories that we do see, we don't see the inmates part. Like, great example. I interviewed the sheriff at Lowenoke County. There was a viral video of him slamming this inmate against the wall.

and, like, holding him by his neck. Mm-hmm. But you don't see the part of what instigated that before. But we never see that part. Exactly. But that's, like, with a lot of police stuff, too. Like, yes, there are some bad cops, but the majority are good. And you don't see, like, the minutes leading up to that, like, what happens.

Nobody, nobody's never going to tell what they did, right? It's like, every dude in jail is innocent, right? Yeah. It's like, I ain't do nothing. Nah, I ain't kill nobody. But they're, but in their rap songs, they're a killer. You know what I'm saying? So you always say these stories of dudes come on and they,

yeah, the COs beat me up. They just, they did this. They treated me unhumane. Now, why do you watch 60 days in, right? You see Fabian, right? Fabian, he's going and they, doing too much. Like, yo, he's doing too much. I'm watching.

I'm watching how the COs watch him. I know, because I know the game. I'm a CO. COs are in control of your life, right? You're in my house. I could bend the rules. or I could straighten them out. And everybody wants to see those to bend the rules

because you want to be comfortable. But when you start disrespecting and you start trying to come in like you run shit, yeah, good luck. Good luck. And guess what happened? He got broken down. People might be like, oh, that COs being an asshole.

Yeah, you're trying to... You know, he wasn't a bit of an asshole, right? We don't know that. He was a bit of an asshole. But when somebody's doing their job, are they an asshole? It's jail. I don't have to be your friend.

I have to supervise you and tell you what to do. That's it. That's all my job description is to tell you, all right. Yeah, lock in. Here, it's time for lunch. Hey, clean up. But then now you come in there, you try and run. You know, everybody, when they had a, you know, jail error,

they want to run stuff like, yeah, I'm coming in here. Nah, it don't work like that. You're in my house. I'm going to tell you what to do. Or if not, bet, let me show you. And guess what happened with a Fabian? He went to talk, he talking, talking, talking, talking, he talking crazy to the dude.

What that dude did? Take his tablet. Took his tablet. He lost his mind. Like, yo, like, you know what I'm saying? Just like you, right? I'm on your podcast, right? You could take every word right now and change it up through what I said.

Change everything up because you in control of my life. So if I disrespect you in here, yeah, fuck you. I don't go fuck about you. I bet. You're going to go your little computer, start changing words around. I'll start doing stuff, I'm crazy. And I look like an asshole.

You know what I'm saying? Well, lucky for you. I don't add anything. I put it out raw, you know? Not good, but, you know. Yeah, that is the downfall of social media. You don't see a lot of it. There's a lot of fake stuff or it's not a complete story.

Right. You're missing so much of the story of what happens. Right, exactly. So, you know, but like I said, with Fabian and the CEO, he just, he just did a whole lot of doing too much. Like, especially in a jail like that. You already knew COs got control of the jail. I could tell from when I walked in there,

I already knew, like, oh, no, they ain't playing with me. Because, you know, of course you want to be a villain a little bit, but, nah, not here. Once I walked in, and I ain't smell no smoke. And normally you walk in the jail, you know, you walk in different gels and stuff. If you smell like that sweet smoke smell, you're like, oh, yeah, they got drugs in here.

When you walk in there, it's clean, no, it don't even smell for real. It's like, oh, nah, this is, this is organized right here. So coming from Rockers Island and going in, like, this is how Joe should be. He got every program there. Sheld Mike Smith. I think he got one of the best programs in his gel. He got everything. Hey, it's your host of Lockton, and I have to tell you about something that's added more

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So download the app today and use code Ian Bick to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, run your game. Why did you want to become a correctional officer? You named people grow up and say I want to be a correctional officer? I mean, some people I interviewed, yeah, because it's a question. it's a good paying job in New York. Oh, yeah, after they find out about it. But every little kid, you go to a school right now,

you think a kid going to be like, what don't want to be a thing? What do you think they're going to say? I'd say cop or firefighter before that. Right, because nobody know about COs, right? Yeah. And this is why I go for, like, people. So every correction officer on Rockers Island is probably from the neighborhood.

Everybody. But everybody's in NYPD. You see, they're not from the neighborhood. Right. If you look at a graduation, Google any graduation picture NYPD in correction, the classes. And look at the difference in the people. You got more of your black and brown people in correction. You think all they don't want to be correctional?

Probably not. Probably not. Right? So now you go to NYPD, probably most of the people in correction, probably got disqualified from NYPD. Right? Right? But they're all in correction. But you look at NYPD, like, hmm, something needs, something is up, right? Google any picture you want and look at it and say, hmm, how come is all the black people over here,

all the black and brown people over here, and then majority of other people over here? Why do you think that is? Somebody got incident, right? Because everybody getting this qualified, but everybody that's correctional is either from Brooklyn, the Bronx, Queens, the five boroughs. But then you go to NYPD, these people from upstate, New Hampshire, different way. But is there even that big of a difference in the job? Because you guys are trained with a gun and are allowed to have a gun as a Rikers guard.

So why can't you be a cop at NYPD? I don't know, because then they want to dig into your family history. And that becomes the issue? Oh, you can't live with your father. If anything, I think that's worse to have criminal history at Rikers. Seriously because a lot of these guys It's not even a criminal history though Like criminal history in the family

No right But yeah regardless You know like It's just It's a simple fact of people Even if I made mistakes growing up right As a kid Every kid

13 to a certain age You're gonna make mistakes Things gonna happen You're gonna get arrested for trespassing Especially back way back then Now things is a little bit more lenient But way back then It's like

Yeah whoa They lock you up for trespass and they're locking people up for weed. They, you know, you got too many parking tickets. Like, well, I live in New York City. You're telling me my parking tickets is an issue? You don't know what I'm saying? Or they look, like I said, because, man, when you fill out a background investigation for law enforcement jobs, you know, you got to fill out your whole life story.

So now they want to look at things, look at who your father is, who your mother is, who your grandfather is. And that, you know, mess you up with getting a job. So now You got All your people In correction I wound up in correction You know

I wanted to be a police officer You know of course I did You know That's just You know Everybody Every kid wants to be a police officer Firefirefire

Every kid Like you know You want to be a firefighter But if you'd be a firefighter shoot I'd rather be a firefighter That's what I really wanted to do You know Because superhero job

You know what I'm saying Everybody love firefighter But yeah I wound up being a correction officer and I realized what was going on. Once I started working in correction, I liked it. I fell in love with it, you know, especially with all the other correction officers I was working with. It's the same type of people that's like me. And the COs on Rockers Island is different, different from anybody else because everybody's from around the way. Everybody knows probably

and most likely no inmate. Their family was probably arrested or locked up before. So they have a different respect for people. Have a whole totally different. Like, you get like a dude that coming in want to be like Mr. Robo Cop and they're doing the most. And they're like, yo, calm that. Like, we're not here with that.

You know, you got to just take it easy a little bit. Because if you, you're going to get yourself in a situation on the Rackers Island if you're coming in, being a real, Mr. Cop. You know. It's hard to be like a cop cop on Rackers Island. I think that's like that in any person, though.

Like the guys that become super cops? Yeah, because there's a lot more leniency. And, you know, now you got only civilians with the hugger thug program now. You know, you get people like Lala that want to go to Rack's Island and go hugging kids on inmates that. That rap about killing people, robbing people, beating people up, being a minister's society. Well, Lala Anthony? Yeah, Lala Anthony. She'll go in there casually.

Going there, Thanksgiving, when you got homeless kids out here. ain't having a Thanksgiving and she in there hug a thug program hugging kissing on inmates rubbing their faces and you're like because they think

COs in there just beating people up but CEOs don't beat people up somebody spain your face somebody spying your face you don't know what they got somebody's spanned your face up you're supposed to tell somebody

how to react to that if I'm spinning your face right now I'm on your platform I thought, nah, Ian, we're good. I just spin your face. So now you got people that's like, nah, the inmate's spitting your face, then you can't do nothing about it.

But is there ever a time where a correctional officer does something wrong to an inmate without it being provoked? Yeah, I never witnessed it, but most stuff is always, it's always stem from something. Like it's possible. It's possible. Everything is probably, just like an inmate. C.O. don't have to do nothing to an inmate.

he just want to punch you in your face because he's having a bad day. Oh, I'm just going through something. What the fuck kid are you going through? I can't come here and go through something and just want to beat you up. But you got to remember NYPD, CO's law enforcement

is a free check for people. So people are always going to play victim because that's all people see. Because me, I had to have a lot of talks with people because I'm like, yo, who he's talking to? He just told me S&D. You know, but a lot of people like, listen.

Don't scoop down at their level. They just want free money. Every inmate, every inmate want free money. That's why you see a lot of these videos with people telling the cops, take the bell and badge off this, then third. And then, right, then when they lock somebody else, oh, you ain't had to do all that. But dude was just talking crazy.

And then people cheer for when, like, a pedophile or something gets jumped by a guard or another inmate, and it makes a news and people cheer for that. People don't even chip. Yeah, like, but people don't check for it. They wouldn't know what the CEO did. Where was the CEO? Because even though he got beat up by the other inmates, guess what?

Nah, he's going to sue because I wasn't protected by the COs. You know what I say? When people go to jail, it's protection. Jell is safer than being on the street. It depends on who you are, though. No, it's safer. You think? Yeah.

Say that to the mobsters that got shaped and killed in there, man. Yeah, but we talk about years ago. Okay. We talk about now. Yeah, state prison, probably a little different. But La Rackas Island, even in state prisons, you see it? People got big TVs and, you know, it's a whole, it's more protection because guess what? If I tell a CO, I'm scared, I can't live there.

I'm going to write a statement, put on paper, and something happened to me, and you still place me in danger, can he sue? Well, yeah, that's right. Exactly. So people are safe and jail. Yeah, that part, if you say now more than ever, they're not going to turn a blind eye. But even still, people know, people know how to operate. When people go to Rockies Island,

what you think? They got their whole game. They already got to set up. Because he might be blood, crib, whatever. Like, all right, we got to put him with all his friends. Then you can't even have bloods together because then they all beefing within the sets. Because one day you'd be working, you're having a good day. And now, next thing you know,

you're watching everybody put on their sneakers. You're like, what's going on? Now the sets is beefing with each other because it's something that happened upstate. And now here you go in the big old melee with a bunch of inmates fighting each other. So, it's,

Rackers Island is just one of those, it's just a weird place. Yeah. It's weird and it's different. Why didn't you become a firefighter? Did you knock it in? Yeah, you got to score, like, real, real high. Took it like two times and, you know, you can't.

The physical or the, like, the mental? The absolute written, because everybody, want to be a, the whole world wants to be a firefighter. So it's like, it's just hard to get in. You either got to know somebody or like, you know, some people, I don't know, some people just get in more than others. And then, you know, they had the lawsuit one time where they had to hire a bunch of

black people who were like, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just weird, man. I just hate it because it's for like stuff, some stuff is fair and some stuff is just not fit. And then did you try for NYPD before corrections? Yeah, everybody. I think everybody that was a correctional was to try for NYPD. And what was their reason for shooting you did? Um, numerous things.

You know, like I said, I had a couple L's in my life, you know, little lessons that was learned. You know, I had to get over and they used it against me, you know, because they don't care if you've been arrested and you beat the case. You don't care if you've been arrested and they got dismissed. They care about what the charge was.

It's like, what? Yeah, there's no such thing that's like innocent until proven guilty anymore. Yeah, like that's not fair. No, that's not fair. oh, you got too many parking tickets. Like, I live in New York City. I live in New York City.

I can't get a job because I got too many parking tickets. And yet you're a cop now. Not in NYPD, though. Right, you know, so you're doing, it's like, come on. Because, you know, you got to keep trying. Because then I don't like people telling me what I can do. It's like, no, I'm going to do it. And I'm going to show you.

And I'm going to be that change in that difference in my community. I'm going to help people. I'm going to get the word out, you know. And what I do, and when I talk to people, some people are like, I didn't even see it like that. So, yeah, because I understand both sides of the fence. I understand it. I understand what it is to be a civilian.

Look how I look. You don't think I get pulled over? You don't think I get, when I'm standing outside talking, I don't have an issue. My little brother, I just told you, my little brother. I'm on the phone, FaceTime with him. Cops of him, he got an open container. drinking a slushy, beat him up.

And I'm on the phone, Tom, yo. He gets beat up. And my little brother, oh, he know he's going to call me when it's something. You know, if he did something wrong, he ain't going to call me. But he's like, yo, they just jumped out on me. I'm drinking a slushy. I'm in front of my building.

I'm just going to go upstairs. Oh, you've got an open container for drinking a slushy? Come on. So what do you do in that situation like that? What I mean, shoot, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna file lawsuits. I'm gonna start pushing paper because that's the only way you're gonna win. Because you can't, you can't complain to everybody.

Because you complain and say this, say that. But nobody's going. When you get pulled over now and they don't know you're a cop, how do they respond to you? Like if you look just the way you look now. Like so normally I tell anybody, right, let the cop. be the dick at. Let, if you do something wrong, let the cop be the dick at. Normally, you know, people just don't, people don't know how to deal with the police in

general, right? So, like, when I get pulled over, if I got 10 on my car or whatever, I'm running down, on my windows, I'm going to turn all my lights. You know, I want to make him feel comfortable as possible, you know, like, all right, cool, we get that part. Drive license, registration, I give him everything. All right, cool, everything check out. Some cops, they're going to write you a ticket.

they're going to write you a ticket because you just got those ones that just they're going to do their job to the T right? And I just and you'd be like, come on, bro. They couldn't let me slide. Everybody wanted to get let go, you know, but yeah, you're going to get a ticket.

Sometimes they don't care if you law enforcement. And I'm going to say one time right, I was going to Atlantic City. I'm on it, you know, I had my SART Jeep. I'm doing like 145.

I'm like, I'm blowing it and um the jrida state trooper right he pulled me over i'm telling my man's like oh my friend you got him do rags everything i'm like yeah he's about to tow my car it's over like we're done you know he's not going to care about me being a correction officer and that because you know people don't even respect correction officers they especially ragged's island they think everybody criminal on ragged island for some reason they every see as a criminal but um i was just like you know respect right respect goes further than anything you know normally people get pulled the why you pulling me over for what happened you pull you off

pulled you off for a reason. So I'm just like, I know I was speeding. My fault, my bad. I just bought the truck. It's an open road. I'm testing it out. He was like, I understand. And he let me go.

Like, you know, be safe. And guess what? I judged him when he got off the car. Because, you know, the Jersey State Troops where the blouse, you know. I'm like, oh, yeah, it's over by the slayment. But nah, he didn't. He was like, nah, slow down, you know, take it easy. I understand.

It's like, yeah. But you don't hear about those type of guys. You never hear about those type of guys. But now if I was being disrespectful and cursing him out, and he pulled me out the car and with my eyes, then you hear about it. But respect goes a long way. And if you want to be disrespectful to me,

yeah, maybe I'm going to pull my phone out, start recording. You know, like, all right, cool, because this might go left. But normally when people record and the cop asked them to step out the vehicle typically is more than what they got to be. Somebody driving out driver's license

and got something is up. You know, but people just don't know out there. Why you pull me over? The cop is going to tell you why I put you over. Just like the Tyree Kill situation. He asked you to step out the car.

You won't roll your window up. You got 10 on your vehicle. You ever heard of Pennsylvania versus Mims? No. All right. I'll let the people Google it. I actually asked you to step out the vehicle. I actually told you.

tell you step out the vehicle. People don't know that. As a drive star, you got 10 on your windows. Can't see inside your vehicle. I don't know what you're doing. So when somebody, and you're a professional, so when these professionals and these athletes get pulled over, first of all, a football player,

nobody even knows a football player. Tell me who played for the Giants. Who's the tight head for the Giants? I couldn't tell you. If he walked there right now, would you know who he is? So you're telling the, oh, you don't know who I am. I don't know who you are, bro. We don't know these NFL players by face

Nobody know who they are So when they're telling you Be respectful Yeah, you got pulled over for speeding You were speeding, bro Step out the car But you as a professional We got to teach these young kids

Especially for the black community We got to teach these kids How to deal with the police When they get pulled over Don't be disrespectful Because that's when stuff We'll start going real wrong for you You know

And it took for me And like I said, I used to be that guy. And I just get pulled over. Oh, he's pulling me over because I'm driving a nice car. Oh, he pulling me over. I used to be that guy. But then when I started, you know, my aunt, she was a cop. You know, she was a cop.

And she was like, listen, for now when you could pull do over, roll down on your windows. Turn on the lights. Don't give them a reason to be on edge. Stop with the back and forth. Like I said, I used to be that guy. Stop with the back and forth. Stop. Oh, why you pull me over?

You pull me over because I'm this because I'm not. Nah, if they're going to get your ticket, they're going to get your ticket. Now, if it stems and goes into something else, then that's when you're going to have to figure it out for yourself. That I'm saying? So, and one time my day get pulled over and the cop tried to tell me, and this is where you know the bad cops, right? I get pulled over. I always used to call my aunt. I'm getting pulled over.

I just bought my charger. It was brand new. No tin on it yet. I ain't even put the tin on it yet, right? So, you know, normally when you buy a car, it takes time for it to register, right? Take time for it to register. So he's like, yeah, your car stolen.

I'm like, what? I'm like, nah, and this is my first car I bought. I'm like, nah, my car not stolen. What you mean? Like, nah, like. Now, you bugging. So I'll get my aunt on the phone quick, like your auntie, like, he's telling me my car stolen. You know I just bought this car.

So I ain't, you know, I was young, so I ain't know you had to ride around with a bill of sale. No, no, because, you know, you take time for your stuff to get mail to you. So I ain't know how to have to have the bill of sale. So he, you know, now it's a lot going on. So I'm like, yo, my aunt is a cop. He's like, I don't care. And he was a sergeant. And he said to my aunt.

What are you, a police officer? I don't talk to police officer. You want to talk to me, come meet me at the precinct. And she's like, what? It's like, oh, that's crazy. Yeah. Like, that's crazy. And then, you know, they bullshit me and violate me

and give me some bum-ass tickets. And then when you go do your thing with NYPD, it's like, oh, well, you got a ticket, but the ticket got beat. But it's like, oh, you still got the ticket. He tried to tell you my car was stolen. But now you're telling the story and trying to explain it.

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later now let's get back into today's episode did um you try to go back to the NYPD after corrections or no. And they still said no. And you become a cop in a different state. That's wild. Wow. Well, serves them, right? But it's like, and this is why, and this is, I was a, I worked in a federal, I worked at, as a federal correctional was the first. And then I went to correct, uh, Rackers Island. And I was ESU. You were federal at like Brooklyn? Yeah, MDC. You were at MDC? I was in MDC. That was your very first spot? That was my first first spot.

I was at MDC multiple times. As an image? Yeah, what years are you at MDC? I was at MDC 2015, 2016. Yeah, I was there in 2016. For real? I was there November through December of 2016. So you was there when the two fly guys was all in there?

I don't know. I had no social media. I wasn't on a contraband phone or anything. I forgot what you know. But I was there when. Hillary Clinton lost the election. I remember being in medical in Brooklyn and seeing it on the screen.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, that was November 2016. I had just got transferred from Wyatt. So why would you leave the feds to go work for the state? The feds is much cushier. Yeah, it was definitely much. Because, you know, like you see, like, you know, you see like they just had,

they had more to awful, you know, they had the, you know, they got the mercy. service unit, you know, they got, Ragazana is like its own little place, so they had a lot of units. So I was just like, no, I want to go work on Rockers Island, you know, just, you know, yeah, of course there's more money, you know, you make good money working at Rykerz Island.

More than the feds? Oh, yeah. Even with overtime? Yeah, with Oakland. You know, with Oakland. You don't go home? How long were you in the feds for? Well, like a year? Just a year, yeah. How long was the process to get in as a CEO?

Oh, it was quick. Because I think back then was right when they were having their hiring issues and they were trying to get everyone in. Yeah, and then, you know, NYPD take four or five years. It's so crazy. Yeah, so it's just... Oh, that explains why there's more corruption in the correctional facilities with some of these guards.

So were you there during the Stephen Dominguez stuff at Rikers? Stephen, who was there? He was the correctional officer that was, like, there was like a DEA agent undercover at Rikers that set him up, an inmate was working with the DEA. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Spanish guy and the Dominican guy. Yeah, I heard the story about it. But it's corruption everywhere, though.

Like, I hate when people try to use correction officers, like, oh, they're so corrupt. It's corruption everywhere. There is corruption everywhere. It's corruption in the presidency. It's corruption everywhere. It's corruption everywhere. So I wish people stop saying that. But I feel like when they do that, especially with the Rackers Island cars,

it's because it's mostly brown and black people. Oh, because you just hear about the bad ones. Yeah, right. Because, all right, people are going to bring their cell phones. Because everybody, because guess what, COs, right? And I used to tell it, like, yo, if you're a CEO and you bringing stuff, you're pussy. You're a fucking sucker. Because me, I'm not bringing you nothing.

And guess what? Have it been an opportunity where people said stuff to me? Yeah. Oh, or you don't bring this, this, that third? You're going, I don't care. I live for bad days. I survive plenty of bad days. You can't do.

What you're going to do? Jump me, cut me? All right, cool. And we'll figure it out. But you can't dictate what's going to do. going to happen to you after that. So inmates knew not to try you. I mean, of course they're going try you. It's Ragged Island. Everybody's tough. It's New York. Everybody's tough in New York. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, inmates going to try you. How old were you at when you were at Brooklyn?

I was 22. So, I mean, everyone's going to be super curious about that. Do you think that Diddy is in protective custody there? Yeah, he's a celebrity. And by himself. Any celebrity go to jail. you have to be, you have to be, you know, you can't be around people. You're a celebrity. You could manipulate people. You could do whatever. I mean, even around the COs, it's ditty. The COs is going.

Yeah, from my experience, I think they're keeping them by himself. Yeah, of course. I don't think they're going to put them in a cell with someone. Unless he says, I want to be with every, I want to be out there. And then you're going to put them out there. And there's a risk doing that. Now, is there a private unit for someone like him, Or is he just in a cell in the shoe?

Yeah, he probably would be in the, they probably would keep him in shoe. But if he felt like, you know, the shoe is different. You know about shoes. The shoe is a little, they probably would keep him there for a little while. And then if he said he wanted to get out to society, then they, you know, they could push it for him to be there. But not in Jen Pop. Not in Jen Pop. I mean, they probably could put him in Jim Pop.

I don't think they would. That's scary. It's a scary situation. They're not going to risk that after Epstein. Exactly. So what do you think about the Epstein stuff? Man, I don't know, man. I don't play with the government, man.

Like, I just... I just don't, from my experience in the federal system, I just don't see how it would actually... I feel like he actually killed himself, and I just feel like it would be so hard to set that up. Because I've seen how correctional officers can be lazy in the feds. I just think that they didn't do their rounds. Nah, but you know you got to do the rounds, though.

But not ever... It could be missed. Nah, you... Yeah, sometimes it can be... could be missed because there's somebody's sleeping, right? It's like, you've been locked up before, right? People put their towels up. Right?

Yeah. And I was a CO now, you're not putting your towel up. But guess what I'm the dickhead now. But for situations like that, I have to see what's going on in here. I have to. So when I go around and I'm ripping people with towels down, and that's how I've got into most of my situations because I'm ripping the towel down.

Yo, put the fuck. You're not about to sue me. Your family not about to sue me. Yeah, because the family's not about to sue me. If the family ain't going, I can't be like, oh, he had the towel up, right? And something happened to him. They want to know why the CO then make the rounds.

Why the CEO let him keep the towel up? But now if I get into a fucking use of force over a towel, it's just a towel. It's not just a fucking towel. People are dying and getting raped behind that fucking towel. So, yeah, when I'm here, yeah, I'm ripping that down. And that's how a CO, becomes, oh, the COs beat me up.

I ain't beat you up. You fucking grab my fucking in when I went to wrap your, pull your towel down. You know what I'm saying? Or when I went to pull your towel down, you fucking spit on me. But then you get people,

civilians, it's just a towel up. Why you can't have the towel up? Don't you know this fucking jail? Everybody that's in jail ain't innocent. Yeah, we got family. Everybody got family that's in jail. Everybody loved ones is in there. But you got dudes in there that's,

they don't care Even, yo, when I used to Like, it's inmates that even knew that jail changed They'll come back from like upstate Coming to Rockins Island And they look and be like, these dudes got tablets Like, what the fuck kind of jealous? Like, what they got going on here?

He's like, nah, jealous, so, you know, inmates, like, real inmates would say that. You know what I'm saying? Because it's like, yo, why are we doing this? And then don't you think they're messing up the system about doing that? giving our tablets, giving all these programs and these jails?

Yeah, I mean, yes and no. I mean, in some way, it's got to deter violence, right? If you have something to do. You think so? Well, I think in the feds, like, if you would have less contraband if you're able to watch movies on a tablet. A lot of the contraband phones in the prison, everyone's watching movies on it and downloading stuff.

And then what? You get that one nerdy guy who could crack a tablet. And there has a whole bunch of other stuff going on. You know what I'm saying? And so, come on, you can't. They have made it way too lenient. So jealous, jealous protection. Jealous a safe house.

Like a camp, there's no purpose for a federal prison camp. There really is the biggest joke. Right, but. What are you doing with a federal prison camp? But I'm okay with that for people who deserve it. A camp? Yeah, I'm cool with it. But they're doing everything.

What's the difference between a camp and the free world? There's no fence. Guys are run through the woods to go have sex with their wives. Right. We had phones. We had Chinese food. Exactly. So what's the problem?

And that's just like the J.I. program when I was in 60 days in, right? In Utah. He got a J.I. program where we basically just had to, you just come back at the end of the day. But then he has a program where inmates to getting bus from the jail to society to go work. And guess what? It's a good program.

It's amazing. But they're fucking it up. Because guess what? They're getting the drugs. They still get. and high, they're still doing whatever they're doing. They're not following the rules. So you're doing all this, putting all of the money, and they're paying them.

They're getting good money, too, for an inmate that's in jail. They can't pay good money. So you do a lot and they're still fucking it up. Just like you said, the camps is a joke. But people still running in the woods to go have sex with their wives. Inmates is going to do it with find a way to do shit. But they should either let them work, like in earn money, like some of these work-release facilities like in county jails I go into and correctional facilities the work release programs

or put them on home detention. Sitting at the camp, they're not making any money. They're just, just weird for free. Yeah. You know, but sometimes, you know, they just try to, because some people just keep coming back. You know, people keep coming back to jail. It's like, I don't know how people keep going back to jail. Some people, I don't know, my uncle been in jail a hundred times.

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So how long were you at Rikers for? How long did you work? Five years. You did there five years? Five years. And then you leave to become a police officer? Why do you finally decide to leave? Was it because you were ready to become a police?

No, they smacked us in the face, man. They, they... First of all, they put people in positions that have never been a correction officer before. Right? Like, one of the deputy chiefs was an ex-inmate. Really? Yes.

That he was convicted? He was convicted. Are you sure? I'm sure. Really? So we got to call up Mr. Norman? Regardless, regardless if he was convicted or not. I can't even get a job.

I was never convicted. And I still have trouble for parking tickets and who I live with. Yeah. So y'all going to let somebody be a deputy chief that used to be an inmate? Who do you think he's going to side with more? I don't have a problem with inmates.

I don't. But from what I've seen, it changed my perspective of a lot. Right? I changed my... Hey, you got dudes that's inmates, right? Tell you, yo, and this is where you get into the issues.

Yo, watch out. The female CEO bought the, the walk, I'm a shooter. What do you think that mean? Well, as a former inmate, I know what that means. Oh, you know what I mean? Right. But for the audience, who doesn't, you know. Right. It's like, yo, I'm a shoot her. He's like, what? The fuck? You know, I'm going to do that shit where I'm here. Like, yo, move out. They're like, and I tell a female like, yo, leave. I'm going to stay here. Now guess who got the bad day? Me? Because he want to pull his fucking dick out and try

to nut on her. And people in the whole housing area, full of gang. members, tough guys, is allowing this shit. Like, oh, fuck no. Fuck no. Like, yo, you, y'all allowing your men's all of y'all to, y'all want to pull your dick out, jerk over at the female. That's crazy. That's pervert. You're a pervert, bro.

And why do you think all these dudes that, you know, you see them on a train, pull their dicks out on a train and stuff like that? I didn't even know they were doing that. Why do you think they do that? because they came from Rackers Island. They say, oh, okay. You know what I'm saying? I think it's okay. Yeah, but now you're in society now.

And I was talking to one of my homeboys about it. He's like, yeah, but they're inmates, though. So it's okay to be a pervert? Yeah, I don't understand that whole thing. Like, they do in the feds. We hear it all the time on the show. Like, why these guys think that's okay. But nobody talk about that, though.

You want to be treated with respect in there, and yet you're doing that. Right. It's those same guys that are right in the BP-9s to the court. That's what I'm saying, but nobody talk about. these stories. Nobody talk about how they, oh, you pulled your dick out on the fucking female CO. And fucking trying to chase her down, trying to nut on her. Like, what? So it changed.

Or throwing their feces. Throwing their feces, right. You're the slot. But that's what I'm saying. Then people are like, oh, the COs beat my ass for no reason. You see it in the movies, they put all this shit out there about correction officers. And like I said, New York City correctionalcers are different. Nobody's even on that type of time in there. You go in there, you go around the room, they say, why you want to be a correctional officer? Especially after watching a Khalid Brawit documentary. Like, no, I want to help image. I want to help. I want to help

me. I do. Like, I know a lot of them, a lot of my friends, a lot of my family. Some people do need help. Right? And, but then you're going there. Like, fuck, I can't even help these dudes. These dudes is ignorant.

I don't know why. No, but it was some. You know, you had a group. You know, you cool with it. You could reach them. You could talk to them. You know what I'm saying? So like when I walk around Brooklyn, you know, inmates to see me, yo, run it to me, give me a hug. Yo, what's up?

You know what I'm saying? I see them all the time. I walk past them in the projects all the time. I see all these inmates all the time. And so I'm like, yo, thank you. You never heard about guys like me. Yo, he did this for me. Yo, he helped me out.

He helped me understand things different. You ain't never going to hear that. But if I was in there fucking people up and broke some of the, my fucking spine, you're here about me then. But you never hear about, oh, you know, he had a conversation with me. Yo, you know what? He made sure we got to the rap studio.

Yo, he made sure I had a book to write down my rap. You don't hear about all those COs. You don't hear about the CEOs that take time out to sit with these guys. To be like, yo, listen, you could change your life. I made mistakes. I turned out, when I saw some of my friends, right?

Some of them ain't know I would see. I used to hide it a lot. that I was a CEO or I was involved in law enforcement. And they would see me and they'd be like, what the fuck? Like, yo, I'm proud of you. That's what's up.

They'd be happy for me. And they'd be like, yo, I'm happy somebody like you got the job. Because you understand it. You understand it. Because honestly, every black person that does become a cop try to be that help. Try to be that voice and that change.

But we get shitted on her all the time. because you got people that's in uniform that don't want us the way the uniform because of the way we look. And then you got our own people calling us fucking sellouts. How are you going to call me a sellout? Because I'm working, trying to provide for my family.

This is just a job for me. It's just work. It's just a job. But you just sell out because you still out here being a minister to society, robbing people, carjacking people, stabbing people, shooting people, shooting up a park with kids in it.

But I'm going to sell out. Come on. Oh, we've had a lot of, you know, perspectives from good COs. They're not all corrupt. I know a lot of the podcasts, like the corrupt ones because of the war stores. But those are the ones that get all attention, right?

Yeah, we've had some pretty viral ones of just good ones, you know. Yeah, but because everybody went ahead of story, yeah, I was making $50,000. I was bringing the sick cell phones a day. I was selling cigarettes. Nah, you, to me, you pussy. I think it's good to have a balance, you know, you have some, you have, like this show, you have inmates, you have cops,

you have correctionally. You need to hear all the sides. Yeah, you should. Because me, as a CEO, the type of the person I am, yo, you pussy. I'm going to look at you and tell you in your face, if you're a CEO that bullshit in to inmates, you pussy, because you're scared to say no.

But I think if you look at it as like, it's like a drug dealer, right? You make quick money now. Yeah, but what I'm saying is like the money-wise, right? That five grand you made for a phone, yeah, it's a lot of money in seconds. But when you get caught eventually for that phone and you end up in prison yourself,

it's not worth it. Exactly. Same thing with drugs. But now everybody calling you the stupid. guy. Before you was the cool guy, because, you know, oh,

that's my man, he's bringing me the phone, and then now everybody like, is it worth it? It's not worth it? It's not. Is it good money?

Absolutely. But guess what? The inmate going to flip on you. Yeah, overall, it's not worth it. But an inmate going flip on you because telling him the police

is not a snitch. Yeah. Right? And if it's not the inmate that's getting it from you, it's an inmate that's jealous because that other inmate has it. Exactly.

That's like the guards that sleep with the inmates, which I still don't understand to this day why they do that. That's just lust, man. People can't control their hormones, you know what I'm saying? I guess, but there's bloody of guys on the street. But it's like, even when I worked in the feds, right?

I worked with the females, right? And the females, they sit in, titty's out, playing with their selves. Like, oh, what the fuck? Like, if I'm a weak guy, then I'm a fool for it. But you got, yo, what the fuck are you doing? You know what I'm saying? But the females is, you know, females like street dudes. Females like street dudes.

Me, I don't know why you would have sex with an emig. You know what most STDs come from? Prison, huh? And why are you thinking? Why do you think, bro? Like, you know, some of the shit you see, yo, some of the shit you see as a CEO, you just be like, yo. Some people are gross. It's gross.

It's like, yo, why would you do that? But, you know, it's like when it's just, not gay. But if I sit here in a room full of men, like, yeah, hold on. Let me get my knife out of my ass real quick. People I'm like, what the? Yo, that's... Yeah, or anything. Tobacco in your ass.

Or let me put my finger in my butt real quick. They're going to look at you like, yo. But you do it in jealous, okay. Yeah. Nobody telling them men, yo, bro. Yo, I seen somebody cut somebody and put their fucking shink back in his ass. Like, you just cut somebody. That is disgusting.

Right? Oh, most STD. And I remember, right, it dawned to me. I remember I used to, like, took it to, like, a couple of my home girls. And they would say, like, their men came home from prison or jail. And she got an STD. Like, how to happen? Like, was he having sex with dudes?

I'm like, nah. He's sitting there because I watched it. You get the visitors. They come in, right? Whoever this female is or dudes, even for sake. Stuffing shit up their ass. females in their pussy or whatever, and then go to the inmate,

he's stuffing it up wherever. And these people, they don't, they stuffing it, touching it with their hands, then they go to the next person, then the next person, then the next person,

all up there. So it's like, why would you even want to deal with it? I'm not saying older than they're dirty. I'm not saying that. But there's people, inmates do anything to survive. No, I've seen some gross rooms

just like the females too. Oh, yeah, trust me. Females are bad, too. I've heard the stories and, you know. Oh, yeah. See, at least the federal females was a little bit more cleaner. You know, they're different type of, but the ragas out. I can't speak on that too much because I never work with them.

But some of the stories I heard is like, whew. Yeah, and some of these guys are just gross too. Just gross. Like, just disgusting. And then, you know, when you work in C74, you're working with the younger population. So they don't know nothing about, like, cleaning up. No, they, so you try to teach them like, yo, clean up, you know. make sure your room is clean

but they ain't cleaning up you can't yo Rackazon you can't tell him it's the clean up it's like the hardest thing in the world I ain't cleaning up and then you get a supervisor that's a bozo come

and won't write you up because the housing area ain't clean who's supposed to clean me they got a lift head but they want to be mad at you so yeah

dudes is disgusting so it's like you got they got burnt you know the burnt fingers yeah like I like Like, yo, that's disgusting. That means you-

From the battery. Yeah, you're like, yo, this dude is a crackhead. Like, he's looking for a fix. Like, he's a crackhead. Like, come on, man. I try to tell people like, y'all know that other side. Y'all hear a little store stories. It sounds good.

That shit is disgusting. So you leave corrections, become a police officer. How do you get on 60 days in? Oh, shoot. It's like, you know, you work on Rock of Islands so everybody else wants to know, like, oh, yeah, let's get somebody around.

Rockers out. You know, they want to see how you operate. So does a producer hit you up? Yeah, you know, social media. Or do you reach out to that? Sometimes, you know, it go both ways. Like, you reach out and then, you know,

you ain't going to probably get a response or whatever. But what's the time they hit you? How'd it happen for you? For me, it was, um, there's just one of those situations that are like, you know somebody that I know somebody and it's like, oh yeah, cool. Like, I think you're a perfect fit for this.

So that's how, like, and then they got back to me. So I reached out to the person and, And it was like, oh, yeah, cool. Were you open to it right away, or did you have to think about it? I had to think about it just because of family purposes and stuff like that. But I was real open to it because it's a jail experience. Like, everybody thinks 60 days isn't supposed to be, you're supposed to go in there and be a undercover cop. No, that's not the system of how 60 days work.

It's a jail experience of 60 days. How people operate in jail. That's why they get different people from different walks of life to go inside the jail. Are you thinking about when you're thinking about doing it and agreeing to it Are you thinking about no social media for 60 days? No you know sacks nothing for like are you thinking about all that stuff? I wasn't I wasn't really thinking about none of that because like it's a sad to say But you're just prepared like me I grown up.

It is what it is. If I had to go to jail, I had to go. So it didn't really bother me because my uncle always told me like jealous gel is You know what it is. If you sign up for jail, it's jail, right? And get people that go to jail and complain. Fucking you complain about. You chose the streets.

You say you're a demon. They're going to lock the demon up. Don't complain about it. It's jail. So I was prepared. And guess what? That fucking jail was amazing. I got the best of the best when I went there.

I was like, oh, snap. I was expected to worse, but it was the best of the best. It was clean. They made sure you cleaned up, had a tablet. Only thing that sucked is that I was locked down for 20. hours a day. So what's the preparation process from the time you get approved, you sign the contract, you work everything out monetarily, what happens? How long does it take to actually where you're getting shipped to that prison? Well, it takes a while. Sometimes depending on

like, where they're at with it, you know, if it's a rush. Because, you know, sometimes they always get people that come in the middle of it, you know, in the middle of the show. So everybody's situation is different. So, you know, they make sure, like, you know, you mentally stable to do it. You know, they ain't put no, I mean, of course you've seen some show they put some weak-ass people or like some weirdo people in there. But they make sure that you are, you know, okay to go on the job. They take well, good care of you to make sure.

And are there different, like, price points where, like, if you drop out on this day, you get X amount of money? They don't discuss that. Like, they hold back on a lot, so I guess nobody can out it. So you wouldn't really know if people still. got what they deserved or they didn't if they dropped out. Oh, they don't even tell you. So you're just going in with, okay, I'm going to make this much money for doing the 60 days and that's it.

But your thought process is like, I'm doing the whole 60 days. I'm not. Yeah, you know, you're like, you know, I mean, you don't know what you're going to do. Everybody say, like Mike Tyson said, right? Everybody got plans to get punched in the face, right? So everybody could go in there and think they're going to do this down and third. But, nah, I mean, I had a plan. But once I got in there, I got in the environment and I saw the energy, oh, yeah.

It's also different because you're a former correctional officer. That too. I know how to move it, but still, you're still trying to do something about it. You know what I'm saying? You're still trying to be one of those, you know, you're still trying to give, you know, you still just a shelf. You're trying to, you know, like, all, cool. I know how to move.

I know how to do this. See what's up. See how things is operating. But you walk into a well jail. Like, shit. Had you watched the show beforehand? Yeah, I watched the show. What do you think of Lucky Chucky?

Do you ever watch him? Oh yeah, he just, he do a lot of talking, man He just I don't know, he tapped out Like, you know And that'd be the thing I'm a tough guy And like, come on, bro

I mean, I don't know him like that You know, I'm not going to speak too much on him But, you know, I just see him do a lot of talking You know, just Like, oh, he talked bad about The show, he took He just took a lot of talking You know what I'm saying?

Then you went down, yeah, did you go into that system Had a bad time during COVID? Absolutely. Jails was fucked up during COVID You know what I'm saying? Even Racka Zahon was a bad thing, but it's Rackers Island, so you ain't locking them, it makes down. That don't happen on Rackers Island, but, yeah, you just do a lot.

So what season were you on so people could watch it? Season 9. And that's already out? That's already out, it's complete, it's done, it's finished. And was that the last season or? I don't know. Last season right now, so far. So far, yeah.

So far, yeah, it's the latest season. They only have nine seasons to 60 days in? Yeah, nine seasons. That seems like it's been going on for way longer than nine seasons. Yeah, because they're the last season. You know, they, like, some, its episodes got like, I mean, some seasons got like 20 episodes. Own it all. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari.

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Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion. So, you know, it went longer or whatever, but, yeah. So now behind the scenes, you do not have a phone for 60 days. Like, you're an actual inmate. Oh, yeah, you can just like, all right. Now, do the correctional officers know you are a correctional officer?

No, they don't know. They don't know. They don't know. All right, so then I guess my biggest question is, how are the cameras set up in there? And do the inmates know they're on 60 days in? No, no. I mean, the show been out so long that inmates would be like, inmates to say, oh, this got to be 60 days in.

You know, they're trying to figure it out. I'm the only black guy. And I'm from, you know, because they always say New York people got accents. And they're like, oh, you got a accent, what you were doing out here. You know, so like, but I had a, you know, my story was good. You know, I had a good cover story. So nobody really figured me out. Yeah, they said stuff.

But everybody that walked in there, if they didn't know you, you were 60 days, you know. And it's Utah County. So everybody knows everybody. So they were just trying to figure out the show. But then you got the show like, what was that? The one that's on Netflix. Oh, with the other guy. Where they let the inmates out for 24 hours and stuff like that.

So it's different stuff that's being recorded. So you really don't know. You know, you got booked. You know, you got all these other gel shows and stuff. So everybody's just trying to figure it out, see who's who and what is what. But they're just using the actual cameras that are on the pod. No, they got their own little setup in different places, you know, to keep an eye on you and watch you and stuff like that. But there's not like a camera crew in the unit.

Yeah, they come through like once in a while. Oh, they do? Yeah, they come through. So the inmates must know that they're on 60 days in. No, they don't know what the camera crew is full. Oh, okay. You know, they just know his cameras coming in there. Okay.

So, but. And when the cameras come in, do they start raising suspicions on someone like you? that's an outsider? Nah, they're going to stay away from you. Okay. I mean, it's like, they talk to everybody. It's just like I said, it's a jail experience. So they're really interviewing everybody.

You know, but they just got Pacific people in there. And like I said, everybody has a story to tell. Like, if you look, you got glory, right? He was the main star. He was mainly on camera all the time because he had a lot to talk about. It was a good dude. So he always had something to talk about. You look, the guy Roach that I was in there with.

He was on camera all the time. You know, so people be like, oh, they're a mole. You know, but those guys were two people that had good experiences. You know, they had a story to tell, something to build up on. Roach was a funny guy. He was a comedian. You know, me and him, we was real close while we was in there. You know, I don't judge people for what they do.

I mean, as long as you ain't a rapist. For me, as long as you ain't a rapist or, You, I mean, everybody ain't going to rock with no snitch. That's just what it is. But, no, you're not a rapist or like a pedophile, anything like that. And I'm not going to judge you for nothing. You know, everybody wants to make money. Everybody's going to get caught up in the streets.

It happens. I mean, if you're a drug addict, that's really ill for real. So you ate the commissary food. You did prison wall phone calls. Phone call. Everything. Everything just like I made. Really?

The food was good, too. The food was top ten. Like, they didn't show, but Fabian was even like, yo, it was too perfect. He felt like everything was just too perfect. Like, he felt like everything was just, like, the food. The food was, like, seasoned. Like, we got donuts. Like, we got waffles.

Like, everything was good. So you think they did that intentionally? No, but from the inmates that was probably, like, been there a couple times, they was like, nah, this is the. just the jail you want to go to jail in. You want to go to jail here. You don't want to go to jail in Salt Lake City. You want to go to jail here.

It's better hot water. They got the GI program. They got all the programs. They got everything in that jail. It's a perfect job. Now, most inmates, ex-inmates, call it a snitch show. Did you find yourself having to tell or report anything or anything like that? I'm telling nobody.

Every time you watch this show, inmates do it to themselves. If you see cameras somewhere, right? You see cameras. And especially if you were an emma, that have been coming back and forth for all the time because all the inmates that have been there a thousand times be like they'll be like oh where all these cameras come from right and you'll see on the show dude you know they they digging in the gravel looking for looking for stuff right and I'm just like bro it's a camera right there if you never seen the camera out here before why would you like and people do all the time and want to know why they got caught right it's like it's like when dudes want to know why they went to jail and they throw the songs on you YouTube and do all the stuff on live and Instagram, they want to know why they got caught. Bro, it's a camera right there.

You're doing too much. So I ain't snitch on nobody. I ain't say, oh, he did this. I ain't have to. The cameras is there. No. But like I said, that Joe is well-ran. So the CEOs knew what was going on.

You know, and they was just basically like, don't let us see it. No, that's every CEO. Every CEO, right, when I worked in the Fed, right, the inmates was like, you know how to be a CEO? They knew I was new. You know, obviously, you know, it's like, just stay out the way.

We know when it's stopped doing what we're doing when it's time. You know, everything stopped when they hear the keys, that's what they say. Everything stopped when you hear the keys. So, walk around, everybody stopped gambling, right? Everything slow down. Then you go back in your office. You know, because inmates don't want the officers around. But when you work in a federal jail, some inmates want the officer around

because some people want to be safe. Everybody else in jail, especially the feds ain't a tough guy. White collar crime, you know, hackers, all kind of, you know, weird. Feds, oh, my God, that I show you, like, all the weird stuff people doing this world. So, you worked there, and inmates, like, drop notes on a piece of paper. Such and such got a saint in cell 15. Right? Because everybody want to feel safe.

So, but you got the extra tough guys that don't want, nothing to do with COs. Why are you walking around? You're walking around too much. Why you keep coming out here? Why do you're standing here? But then got the people that are right? The CEO not doing his job. They're calling 3-1-1. So it's like that. Why I'm supposed to do? You know what I'm saying? So it makes it a little hard for CEOs to do certain stuff. You know, but if you do your job to the T, you're the Robocot. Right? It's like Rockers Island. Cell doors don't work. When I was there, none of the cell doors worked. Inmates come out in and out their selves as they please.

And, right? Everybody know the cell doors don't work. Everybody. So now cell doors don't work. inmates are in each other's cell all night. They're all hanging out together. And you can't close the cell door because you close the cell door. Guess where you got to.

Now you're in a situation. You're in a useful. Right. And should the cell door be locked? And Jeff? I mean, that's what they. they do in the feds overnight. Right.

But Rockins Island is different. Like, we're talking about Rockins Island, right? Rackers Island, none of the cell does work. It mays, you'd be like, yo, you try to push the bucket out. You're going to spit on you. You're going to kick you. You're going, yo, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you closing my door?

It's like, bro, it's locking time. Now you're not locking my cell. Get the fuck from my front. Now it's homeboys coming out the cells. You're like, now you're in a situation. So they don't lock them in at all? They don't lock them in. Amates walk around all the night.

Dude, that's crazy. They up all the night. walking around, sliding the doors. They in each other's cells. They take the game cart, put it in the cell, plug it in and playing PlayStation all night. Why don't they just fix it? They've been trying to fix it.

They got the new doors. The inmates, now how to break the new doors. So, and then got the inmates. Now, I don't close my cell. Leave it open. And it's like, you're trying to call a supervisor. Supervisor, it's like, yo, the cell,

they don't want to close their cell doors. Rutgers Island really is a different beast It's a different beast Because now if I try to close this cell door I'm going to have a situation Me I was closing cell doors Because me I just think about getting sued I gotta feed my family

Like this is just my job I don't want to lose my job because guess what And it happened It happens all the time They all in this room together And guess what Somebody getting stabbed up And it's always the main guy

Right And this happens all the time. It's always the main guy that'd be like, I don't want my cell door to work. Nah, leave my cell door open. He'd be like, bro, I got to close your door. Nah, leave my door open. All right.

Next thing you know, you got everybody running up in his cell. Now he's screaming. Oh, yo, bro. Just told you closed the door. Now, who the family mad at? You. Right. So how can we create a safe environment?

But if I do, I'm having it. issue every time. Yeah, to lose, lose. Right? How am I support? Like when somebody get cut? Oh, did the officer pat him down? Why are we not mad at the dude that cut him?

Nobody cared about, and I always say this, we kid more for the criminals more than we do the victims. Nobody cared about the dude that cut them, right? It's like dudes that come home and be like, yeah, I was cutting people. I was, ah, and everybody, wow. Yeah. No, that's their men's, they cool with them. But nobody like, yo, bro, why you...

Black Lives Matter, right? Why are you doing that to your own people, bro? Yeah, I don't understand that. And then you got people, all these celebrities, jandy, all these people going outside the jail's protesting. Oh, treat human, I mean, treat inmates like humans. But they and they're cutting and beating each other up. Yo, we couldn't even, like, in Razz Island,

you can't even walk people past each other. They can't even walk past each other without it being a situation. Ain't that crazy? We cannot do no movement. If we got one house walking, you can't let another house walk. Whether they was, it could be neutral kids that's not involved in the game. It was going to be a fight. And you got people protesting for these guys.

COs ain't doing nothing. In the past few years, CEOs had their hands tied behind their back. You can't control nothing. Seals was getting in a Seals were getting more trouble than Emmys. You know what happened if an inmate cut another inmate? What do you think happened? What they put in the box?

Is there a box on Ragazale? Is it? No. They got rid of the box? Yeah, they got rid of the box. When did they do that? Keel leaf brow situation. Remember they said that eliminated it?

Yeah, right. Instead of people being like, I'm not going to the box, they're like, now we need to get rid of the box. Right? Right? Because people want to please the criminals. Right? And it changed my mindset because it's like the people that want to change for jail system is the people that want to commit rock.

So where do they put the really violent offenders then? Where are you going to put them? If there's no segregation. There's no segregation. Sometimes they do like a little, they try to have like a modified thing. But it makes it smart. They know how to get out of it. Right?

Because I'm going to be the biggest, toughest guy in the world. Cut everybody. And then I'm going to write a letter saying I can't. This is unhumane. I'm locked in. I'm going crazy. Nobody cares about what he did to get there. Instead of being like, oh, well, you put yourself in this position

because I was raised different, right? My pops, my uncles, if you do something, stand on it. You can't take it back. If you go to jail, you better make sure damn is worth it. So now we need these dudes, right? Want to be tough guys and doing all this shit. Then they go to jail and everybody won't fucking sympathy. Fuck?

No, what gangster mean? Stand 10 toes? Stand on your own? home, right? And my uncle was that guy. I'm going to jail by myself. I'm like that. And he told me, he always told me, if you want to be the tough guy, you're going to have to deal with people like me. I want your shoes. I want everything. I want to be involved with dudes like that. Right? And when, you know, like I said, I grew up in a good environment, like a village. Like I had my uncles, had everybody that you could do what you want. I don't care. But if you go to jail, you do what you do.

make sure you just because you want to do it and don't cry when you get there. You know what I was told? If you go to jail, better have money. You want to be a criminal? Have money. Have lawyer money. All these dudes,

oh, we ain't got no money. Then don't be a criminal then. You ain't prepared for that lifestyle. You can't be a street dude with no money. You know, Brooklyn, Brooklyn, right, by New York, everybody get money. But when these dudes, they want to be criminals, shoot up a park and do dumb shit.

And everybody going to be just, Oh, they're treating us so bad on Rockers Island. Bro, you just shot up a park. And that's when I realized, like, Jell is a safe place because you sitting here, and you're like, you're watching inmates just have fun. He's like, and you look at their charges. And you're like, yo, he shot an old lady in the park.

They shot up a whole neighborhood. They doze as ministers society. You know, oh, you watch a dude that killed the two-year-old, baby give visits. It's like, damn, what about the victim? You watching dudes that's, like I said, Lala, right? She's going here, these rap dudes, whatever,

saying everything they did in these rap songs, toughest guys. She's the hugger thug program, giving out hugs and food and pizza and all this crap. And everybody cared for dudes that's going to jail. Why are we kid for dudes that's going? If you're innocent, cool. Get out.

Yeah, we're going to help. those people. Yeah, let's, let's help those people. And some people, you got to do what you got to do. Understandable. Some stuff is understandable. It happens. You get caught up in a situation. Cool. It could be anybody. It could be me. Today, tomorrow, right? It happens. But when you get into jail and you are the menace in jail as well, that's a problem. And then these dudes still get the sympathy from everybody, from the whole world. When you're on 60 days in, do you ever feel danger? Never felt in danger.

I mean, it's jail. If something going to happen, it's going to happen. The only time I realized, like, and I told the show, I was like, I realized your officers don't have, like, O.C. Spray. Like, why your officers don't walk around with O.C. Spray? Like, at least that's going to get me it. Like, even Rackers Island inmates, like, when they see an office, like, they'll be like, officer, where you see, what are your O.C. Spray?

You know, because at least they know if they got to fight, they got to fight for a few a few seconds, you know what I mean? So it's like you look around You'd be like that Also ain't got no OC I'm outnumbered in here Because I was like You know the only black guy

It was like if something happened to me I know this female CO Can't help me I'm gonna have a long ride You know what I'm saying I'm gonna have a long ride No I don't care how tough you are

Even though ragas honor You're tough as inmate Gonna make sure He's gonna check to make sure You got your OC first Before he do whatever he's gonna do Because they want you to They want you to spray

Don't let all these guys fool you with all this. I was a tough guy. No, they want you to spray. Especially if they do it out, whatever they're going to do. They know they ain't going to have to fight long. The ones that sneak off and fight in the rooms or whatever, all right, cool. But then even in that instance, right? You were CO.

Because it was a video of a female CEO, right? She wasn't helping an emmy. It's a thousand dudes in this house. He beating up one dude. What you want that female CO to do? And you're talking about high-ranking, you know, dude, that's blood. you know, he's a tough guy. Now he getting jumped.

Who do you think the family wants to? The prison. But not the criminals, though. They don't matter. The criminals never matter. And it's it. Like, you're like, yo, wow. How come the CEOs is more responsible than the damn?

These are grown men, too. We're not talking about kids. We're talking about grown men that know what they're doing. But the CEO always get blamed for everything. Wow. Did you ever have problems in there that did not get shown in the final episode? in the season? I never, I never, I might have had one or two situations

and I think it was over the remote. Like, you know, like, because the dude kept putting a remote in his pocket, right? Like the TV remote? Yeah, but you had some COs that would take the remote. Like, nah, nobody's getting a remote. And it was just because of them.

They know people would fight over the remote. But it was one time when dude had the remote he kept putting in his pocket. And they put on hockey one day. I'm like, I'm not watching hockey, bro. I'm not watching hockey. They're like, all right, we're going to put on basketball. I guess we're going to put on basketball.

So, you know, but nothing, nothing crazy because those guys are not tough guys, well, like, you know, I'm sorry, but those guys in there, they, I'm not saying they were soft or anything like that, but everybody, they wasn't ignorant, like, they didn't really care for you to be acting tough. Like, why do you think Fabian was by himself acting a fool?

Because I don't know everybody's acting a fool. If one, if one, if one emma don't like a CO, the whole housing area is not going to like the CO. But there, and I was like, you know, telling me like, you better chill. This ain't the place to be acting of ignorant, bro. Nobody's going to back you up.

Like, they pro-police here. Like, some of them are mostly snitchers. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're telling they want, like, nah, this ain't the place for that. Would they have letting you got hurt there? No. The show wouldn't have.

I mean, anything could happen. Nobody in there with you. But are they on call 24-7 watching? Yeah, but they got still got to get to you. Yeah, but. Because even in jail, in prisons, everybody, watching the cameras is up but they gotta come they gotta get there then you so I mean you know you you know you kind of sign papers you know it's a little risky business but what was the hardest

adjustment for you doing that show um family that probably was the hardest adjustment but I had to remember my uncle my my family told me can't take your family to jail with you that's why these dudes be going through it your girl ain't your girl no more I mean that was in my situation because I was doing something different but when you go to jail, your girl ain't your girl no more. Your kids. Yeah, you're going to speak to them. Here, there.

But you can't take your family to jail with you. Once you choose to pick a lifestyle and you do certain stuff, yeah, that go out the window. It's going to, your day going to come one day. No, but that's why I respect certain dudes that go to jail. Like, it's some dudes that be like, yo, I don't want my mother to come up in and see me. She won't come seeing by I wanted to. She ain't raised me like this.

You know, I don't want her to see me like this. You know what I got a cousin in jail right now. You know, me and him at the conversation. Yeah, bro. It is what it is. It happens. Now, we just got to get out the gym. You know, you'd be like, my own mother to see me.

I'm all right. I'm good. Because she didn't raise him like that. You know, she wanted better for him. But when she's working a job, where she got to tend to society She's tending to everybody else needs You know what I'm saying?

A kid Out of here left alone That's even where everybody In law enforcement, right? Especially these correction officers I watch females break down And cry because they couldn't get to their kids Because you can't go home

Who's watching their kids? Especially their teenage. Teenage times is the worst time for any kid Right? For females that got daughters With a daughter Got worried about your daughter of being out here, being a whole getting pregnant,

had a young age, your son, you don't know what's happening. He can walk in the street, get beat up, you're in the park playing basketball, get shot, or whatever's that, or he just out here doing whatever, and you don't know. Because you, you stuck at work.

There's a lot of single parents that, you know, mothers that was there that couldn't be to their kids. And you know how many some COs, their sons was locked up in it? It's not his fault. Sometimes what? Sometimes I can't be a rat, right? I can't be a snitch, right?

They find a gun in the car. The dude that got the gun ain't going to own up to it, right? So they take everybody. And say he's the good kid. He's just hanging out with his friends. My friends is my friends. Right? And now he jammed up in a situation.

So he's like, damn. So he can't take your family to jail with you. Like, you know, it's hard to have family. And when dudes be going through it, no, my family don't come see me. It's like, yo, this is crazy. Like, bro, you chose to do something. You chose a path for yourself.

There's no family in jail. But when you get to jail, you realize it's lonely. Nobody really going to care for you. The only person that's probably going to care for you is your mother. But everybody continues to glorify jail. Jail is the new success. Jail is the new successor.

Right? And when I was working there at a young age, your head dudes be like, I've been coming to jail long as you even been born. That's not accomplishment, bro. Does that? Like, and I always wanted to know, like, is Jella accomplishment now?

In jail, I guess it is for some people, you know? Getting out, though. Not necessarily. But getting out. All right, cool. But so should a person that worked 20 years on a job and retired, be less important than somebody that did 20 years in jail?

No, I think what's important is how the person that did go to prison use their time to better themselves and came out and created success. Ooh, because some of these dudes still come back out. No, not those guys, but there are people that come on the show. But you weren't here about them, though. What, the failed ones? Yeah, but every success story always started with I was in jail. Yeah.

Right? What about the dudes that could have been in jail and made it, and chose a whole new path and made it. doing different things but you never hear about those guys, right? You never hear about the guys that was in it. They probably never got arrested, but they was in the street.

Well, they don't want to talk about it. There are a couple, but... Yeah, but I can't talk about it because now I got a good job. You know, I got a good job. I can't talk about certain stuff. Yeah. You know, some dudes that probably was out here

working, getting money, a lot of money, and they got out the game once they got a good job. Because it's hard to get a job. It's hard, especially in a certain time. It's hard to get a job. You know what I mean? I mean applications you probably filled out trying to get a job.

Oh, there was a lot before I went to prison. I had to was like a hundred. And what you're supposed to do when you're on your last limb trying to get a job? It's hard. Just like me, right? I'm trying to do the right thing. I'm trying to apply being law enforcement, whatever.

And I'm getting denied it. I'm trying to better myself, but you're telling me no. It's like, oh, whoa. Like, that's not fit. Now I feel like I feel like I feel like, I bet. You know what? I ain't supposed to be here. You know what I'm saying?

But when they put programs in jail, right? Like when you work on Ragaz Island, they got all these programs, scaffolding, automotive, cooking, holocauture programs and all this stuff. It's good. But why we can't put that in the schools? We're giving it out for free in jail? Why is it not free in school?

We're not... I'm watching dudes that got to pay all this money to do construction. All this money to get an OSHA 30, all this stuff. They're paying money to do it. But in jail, you could get it for free. That's fucked up. Because now there's kids out here that could be, when they're 16 years old in high school,

about to graduate, you know, 18 and 21, you can't really get a job, you know, because you got to wait until you 21. So why we can't prepare them for that? Why are we going to put it in jail? Why somebody got to go to jail first? Even a holocaution program, right? And I love the dudes that I'll be seeing that got a flower business now. Like, yeah, like you did use jail for what it's for.

You know, they're doing a successful flight, but some of them are chefs now. Now, that's good, but why we can't put that in the schools? But you guess what, though? Are they going to use it in the schools? Because it's kind of corny if you go into class, right? Because I was going back and forth with another person, and they was like, they need more education, free education, inside the jail is more education.

I'm like, ain't school free? Now everybody go to jail and everybody wants to school. Come on, son. School is free. Now when you're in the gym, ain't trying to cry and plead your case,

bro. School is free, bro. Especially public school, college? Yeah, fuck. I mean, shit, if you're in college, yeah, there ain't nobody paying for that. You know, it's a little pricey. But come on, school is free.

So I feel like everybody wants to be street. Nobody want to go to class. dudes is cutting class and stuff like that. Now they're in the jam. Now they want people to feel sorry for them. I'm going to school and jail. Come on.

School is free, bro. I mean, some people do have an excuse. Some people, it's messed up out here. Some people do need to help. Why don't we help these people get a job? But we're not helping nobody get a job. But sometimes you can't even say that. Because MTA right now, telling you don't need no education.

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I would like to see. There's no excuse for you not to be working. Do you feel like law enforcement should experience something like 60 days in to help them do their jobs better? That was a question. Somebody asked me, after doing 60 days and do you regret, like your job?

No. If you understand a certain lifestyle, like the dude Brian that was on there, right, he saw the other correctionals to be in the asshole. And the law enforcement, everybody don't agree with everybody how everybody do their job. You know, whether you black, white, whatever. A lot of people, you know, Brian, he's white.

The other dude was white officer. He didn't agree with how he was moving. He felt like he was doing too much. You know, like it wasn't fair. It wasn't too much, but it was a point where he didn't get the guy another trait because he was allergic to fish. He told him eat around it. Like, come on.

Like, you don't do that. Like, give people their minimum standards. That's fine. But then I tell you. tell people, I'll be like, this is the part way to get tricky. I say, somebody dissent to your family, right? Do God forbid

kill somebody in your family? You care what Trachee-E? No. You care with Tray-E? You care how he's treated in jail? And that's why I say criminals get more sympathy than victim. Because we even looking at the Little Dirk situation,

right? Everybody free little dirt. What about that lady, that little son? That father, that guy. took him away from him, if he was a father, they got taken away. I mean, yeah, he changed his life. It's cool. But he should have been smarter. You're rich.

You're rich. Some stuff you just got. And I don't, the only reason why I don't feel bad for a little dirt. Because Walo told him, yo, you got to let some stuff go. So I'm not going to show sympathy for nobody that told you already. Yeah, I don't feel bad for these celebrities that have all the money. did it, like have already made it and then they do commit crimes.

Right, like, come on, bro. But they are entitled to innocent, you know, until proven guilty. But I'm just saying in the whole situation, you know what I'm saying? It's not like he did this before he made it if he actually did it. This didn't happen 20 years ago. Exactly.

But even, like I said, like that conversation and people knew, like, don't listen to these bozos with no money. And I was always because I would talk to like young dudes when I was working on rackers out. No, yeah, like I talked to younger dudes and they'd be like, oh, you know, we talk about the whole little dirt game situation. And I'd be like, nah, when you get to a certain level in life,

he got family, he got feet, he got, but when you got one dude that's acting ignorant in your circle, he's ruining everything for you. And that's why people get mad, you know, at certain rappers when they start leaving people in the hood. Because, bro, you act in a certain way.

You're not acting. how you, like, we got money now. Like, we don't have to act like that no more. We're good, you know, like a five-year-old farm, right? And I don't know him personally and nothing like that. I know, you know, some people around him, but everybody mad at him. You know, and it's like, bro, I watched that man grow. I watched his whole music career grow from when he had no hair on his head.

He had a bold Caesar, right? And he played the backburner. his whole career. They became successful and everybody wants something from him. And then he cut certain people off because I got money now. It was a dude that was locked up

on Raggers Island when Fabio got his deal and started really becoming and I was having a conversation with him. I was like, yeah, you're not going to deal with you because he's at a different level and you're still...

You got to cut people off. Yeah, and I don't have to cut you off but let's act accordingly, fall in line. Well, if they don't, then you have to cut them out. I have to, right? It's like Jay's. when he cut off Beanie C going on

because I'm going places. I'm trying to elevate. And y'all out here being, you're beating people up, robbing people. Bro, why are we robbing people and we rich? I could buy you a damn chain. So when y'all doing certain stuff and they look and then when you do stuff like that

and I was like, oh, Jay Z ain't do nothing for me. Bro, you chose, I didn't put a gun to your head. I didn't tell you to do nothing. I don't owe you a goddamn thing. So now you get in a gym, you're looking for me. that don't work like that. And everybody that fell in line and when he grew, they grew with him.

They're right there with him. But everybody else wanted to feel like, oh, now I'm still come around and be Mr. Tough guy. Nah, chill. We're in a different room. We're in a whole different room now. Yeah, I was watching a clip the other day

or reading a news article about the little Dirk thing. They're like, yeah, the guy's got all this money, but what's he going to do with it in prison? Yeah, I mean, got to take care of everybody else. And that's what, and that's when I worked in the feds, right? It was this guy, I was cool. I would talk to the inmates all the time, right? Because I was just always curious, like, is it worth it?

Like, because you can look up people cases and you can see how much money they got, how much, you read daily news, you pull up the article, they're like $1.4 million in money laundering and stuff like that. Like, these people got money. So you go, you're like, yo, like, is it worth it? Like, all this time you're doing and stuff like that. He was like, no. He said, he said, I'm stuck in here.

Everybody else out there enjoying my money. He said, yeah, they eat. My wife, I'm doing 30 years. She's doing whatever. She's traveling. My kids, I'm not watching them grow. They're doing whatever enjoying my, for my money. That's sacrifice, and I'm in jail.

It's not worth it. Yeah, he got money on his books. Yeah, he got 200 macaroos. Yeah, he's gambling. Yeah, he's good. He's the money man. You know, he can play poker for $10,000 for at the end of the day. Yeah, I get paid.

board living the same shit every day when I'm in the same routine. I got to switch it up here and there. Exactly. So I imagine prison when you're literally, you're forced to do that, you know? Exactly. So now, I mean, Dirk,

anybody, you know, all these celebrities is just like, I mean, I don't see a way out for him unless he takes the first deal they offer and rolls on some people because I just know how the feds play. It's not like the young thug thing where it's a state case and there's a departure to the feds.

Yeah. We all know it's a whole different game, a whole different ball game. You can't even compare it. And everybody know when the feds got you, they ain't going to do no state case where a bum-ass cop just, you know, locking you up and, you know, all right, cool, this is what we got so far. The feds are sitting there watching, watching, surveillance, phone taps, wires.

They got everything to be like. So when they come get you, they're going to make sure they hold you. And if they want you as a ringleader, they won't cut a deal with you. Like, you look at the 6-9 thing. They didn't look at him as a ringleader, so he got such a sweet deal. Yeah, I mean, see, now, that's the only people I say need to be free, man. Who, 6-9? No, not 6-9.

Oh. All the people that was involved in that situation. With 6-9? Yes. Because you know what? Those guys stayed in what's tough with the tough guys. They never bothered the civilians. I don't really have much respect for 6-9 because he was a part of that life.

He signed up for it when it was good. It was good. Yeah, but I mean. And then when it gets bad, he's out. Six-nine. I always argue with my friends, too, about it. Because they're like, oh, you like what 6-9 there? I said, no.

respect what he did, but, right, say he said he was like, nah, I ain't telling. And we know how the feds work. Oh, you don't want to tell? All right? Listen to this. Imagine your man's dudes you with every day. Talk about robbing you. And nobody on the phone like, nah, leave him alone. I'm going to talk to him. I got this. Oh, guess what? We just did a search one on the phone. Oh, look, they trying to sleep with your baby mother. You still want to do this 30 years? for these dudes that ain't lawyer to you No, I agree But he made the choice

To get into that life to begin with Nah You don't think so? Mm-mm See, it's... How? How do you not make the choice To get into that life?

He wasn't blood Before he met these dudes He met with these dudes They was like, yeah This is what's getting it This is what's happening He got comfortable Yeah, he started being tough

Like everybody, right? Like Drake now, now he's from the grassy Now he'd be talking tough And doing all this, right? Like, you know what I'm saying? Because the circle they're around They got money now. So yeah, so

Six and a hundred The situation is a little bit more different But he made the choice to become of blood Because I got people right I didn't think this shit was gonna go the way it went Because everybody, then that's how everybody is Right, when they want to choose a street life Yeah

And only thing I had with them was These are grown men We all grown here Like stop being in the streets Bro, we got money now Once I trust me, when I get rich And I get money Yeah, like I'm different now, you know

I'm saying? You're supposed to be different. You're supposed to be different. Only time we're going to deal with a problem, if that problem block us from where we get to where we need to go, and then we're dealing with it from there. But us going to look for people. I was going to rob people. But that's why you got cut everybody off. That's why people be like, oh, he ain't doing nothing for the hood. And you see what happened when you try to do for the hood, you get jammed up. And that's why a little dirt game situation, trying to please everybody from her, trying to, I don't want to buy saying I switched.

Bro, you got money that you have to switch. Because them dudes that can't fall in line that can't take the fucking shiasty off his head in the hoodie and wear something decent and be like, nah, I'm good. I ain't got killed nobody today. But if they come out of way, I got you. We good.

Nah, these dudes, you're trying to take the whole block. You cannot take the whole block with you because one you can't trust nobody. And plus, you still make more money than everybody. They're hating on you. They're watching you. They're going to line you up. Yeah, there's no winning.

There's no winning. So you can't take everybody. Only people you could take with you is the people that was there from the beginning that was helping you. And everybody from the block has to find their own fucking way. What you could do is if you want to help them out, hey, you need a business. I bet what you got? You know what? Me?

My situation, I hung out a lot of rappers. You know, one of my friends salute to him. He's like, yo, bro, listen. And then do armed security. I like doing security. You know, don't be a just, don't be just be a goon. Goons don't get paid. Just a goon that's going to go to jail for another rapper.

So be on security. Start your own business. You know what I mean? Corrections. It's got their own security business right now. Work around with celebrities because it's a legit business. You know? So my friend, it's just like, yo, you want to hang out with rappers?

You want, all right, you can still be in the mix. Just do armed security. I bet. So now I started producing my life to get back. You know what I'm saying? But then I wound up in law enforcement feeling like, oh, what the fuck? I was like, nah, this shit is crazy. You know, realize it just opened my eyes up to a lot of stuff.

You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, you know, you just do it. Like, I just got my business together because it's like, if I have a friend that rap, right? I don't rap. That shit is whack. But guess what? Now my man get money, he's going to tell me, yo, be my arm's security. Now I'm going to start.

Somebody has to have a job. Have you ever seen a picture of a little baby where the dude was holding the umbrella and like the dude was smiling? Yeah. You got to pay some pay it. Listen, take your position. Everybody has to get paid.

Them dudes that's not getting paid are watching. Looking for you. Oh, can I get some money? Can I get some money? What you do for this dude? And that's why you always see a thousand dudes in the studio. And I'll be having this conversation when I was on Rockers Island talking to these dudes.

And I'd be like, bro, it's because you in the studio with a man don't mean. He owe you anything. Just because that's your man, you have to. You have to get up and get your own. own money. When I hung out with my friends, I always had my own money. All my rap friends, when I hung out rappers and I was different places with them, I had my own money. I always kept a job. I always had a job to have my own money do my own thing. I never hated on them. I hung out my friends. Hey, I could buy my own

for. I got to play for my own flights. But now everybody in this rap industry looking for handouts. And then when they go to jail, they look up for this. Dude don't even know you like that. Dude don't know you like that So that's what I said Like all this jail tough guy stuff It opened my eyes up to a lot Only people you're going to respect and see That do gangster stuff

And it's respected And the people that you don't even hear about Because they don't even talk about it It's like it is what it is I know what I did I mean I can never hear those guys And it's funny because Andre Norman I don't know if you know

So then he got the Securus app on the tablets and in jail so I used to watch it on the tablet and stuff and the only person I respect is Omaha with the Hellcat. You know who he is? Omaha with the Hellcat was doing an interview with Andre Norman and, you know,

he's talking about going to jail and stuff and, you know, he went to jail for whatever he went to, I mean, you know, got to arrested for whatever and he's just like, a crime is a crime I got to do my time. I respect that. He ain't tried to, oh, they're wrong.

He's like, nah, crime is a crime. I got to do my time. And when I get out, you're just going to continue to, you know, grow and get past it. Right? And then he had some other stuff on the tablet where you look in. And dude's like, yeah, I'm in here for capital to murder. And I'm just trying to find God. And I need to be free.

And I need to get back on. Like, bro, you ain't here for capital to murder. What? Like, you found guilty of that crime. Like, you know what I'm saying? Everybody's tough. And then they want sympathy. they all found God

and there, da-da-da-da-da. Hey, if somebody do something of your family, you care if they found God? Probably not. I can care fucking less. Everybody got sympathy for people. That's why when I see, like,

Lala and all of them going and hugging doing the hugger thug program and stuff, somebody fucking take your son, shoot him, shoot your son for his fucking clothing sneakers because he's out. Let me see if you still go go do the hugger thug program and hear that dude out there black, I changed my life.

Ruined his basketball career. Let me see if you're gonna go on Rockers Island and go visit that dude and say, yeah, come on, baby, it's okay. And hug him and kiss him. Mm-mm. I guarantee you should never go there again. Or all his friends that he lives staying with,

you're gonna go say what's up to them dudes? You're gonna go and give them Thanksgiving dinner? Nope. That's why you see these dudes, man. That's why I like, and I always see these celebrities. like that's crazy celebrities going to these jails and they just like, it take me back

to a bad place. Like, what the fuck? You don't have to go to jail. You could choose the sidewalk. If you realize certain things, me, I realized certain things wasn't just for me growing up. Right? Certain things just not for me.

Like, nah, like, he was rob a dude because he got something nice. What the fuck? Or rob a dude because he got a cell phone like fuck you're gonna do the cell phone ain't no money in that you know what I'm saying I grew up with my environment that I grew up in the guys I grew up around like we're gonna do something make it worth it that's why like you hear dudes oh I rob such and such who you rob now if you tell me now if I like you know right now everybody got a name for their cell

I'm a I'm a shooter I'm gonna look at look up their case bro you shut up a park bro you ain't shoot nobody. You're scared. You was a scared shooter. You shot from across the street. You ain't tough. You ain't run down on who you wanted to shoot. You, you shot from a quarter. You ain't no shooter. You're scared. Everybody hyping you up because you shot from across the street and shot up a park or shot up an area with a bunch of kids in it. You solve your pussy. And that's why I had always had issues in there because I'm going to tell dudes, bro, you pussy, bro. That shit don't mean nothing to me because a killer ain't going to tell you here, a killer. them inmates that was our worst

you wouldn't even expect it if he was respectful to you you was respectful to him those guys that knew when you came on the search you take off their stuff they already know what time it is compliant now you start something with them

all the CEO every CEO going to be like what you do because we know who's the problem and who's the chill guys so when you mess with that one guy that's always complying, he don't fuck with the police, them guys that really don't fuck with the police, they don't want you in their presence.

Like, yo, what happened? How are you getting a situation with him? And there's always that robocop guy. Like, no, I mean, I wanted him to squat five times. It's like, yo, bro, just like, let it go. Like, I thought I saw something. Like, bro, come on. Like, if he squire, he squat.

You know. But overall, though, the whole 60 days in thing, like, I would just prepare for jail, though. You know, what you promised in jail? I always ask people there. What was I promised? No, anybody. From growing up from when you was till now, what are you promised in jail?

Well, not now, because now you promised a whole lot of shit. But growing up, what was you promised in jail? That I wasn't a safe space? Not a safe space in which you get, three harts in the cot. Oh, yeah, you got three meals and a bad idea. That's it. Yeah. So now people go into jail, oh, we need this.

We need that. You know what? We know what happened when they sent all them COVID masks to Rackers Island during COVID time and hand sanitizer. The dude was taking the metal out, the mask, using it to make a razor or using it to light up shit. So I was wasting your fucking money on these fucking inmates.

We got people that really need help in these streets. You know what I'm saying? Like I said, I don't have a problem with inmates. I don't. If you're innocent, cool, act accordingly. But people do too much for these people that put themselves in this position. So what was your last day like there?

What happens there after the, on day 60? Oh, shoot, I was just happy to, I don't know, like I was sitting there. Were you counting down the days? Nah, they don't let you count. Like, you don't even, you missed out on the days. So you don't even like count the days. Like, it just, I thought. You just don't know when you go home.

Yeah. So they basically just, you know, they call your name, say you being released. You know, you just, it's a relief feeling like, oh, shit. And then they give you, like, an exit interview and stuff like that. Yeah, they give you an exit into you. Right then and there. when they release you? Nah, they give you some time

to, like, you know, they want to make sure your mentor is right, make sure, because, you know, some people jail could really fuck you up. But, um, but if you're not prepared for it, you gotta be strong, bro. It's gel. Like, you know, one of the, the girl

that was on there, um, Nina, like, I'm ready for my jail era. All right, you ready for the tough guy era. But complained about everything in the jail. You know what I'm saying? Like, you can't, can be a jail era and you complain at every five minutes. Oh, it stinks.

Oh, the food is horrible. Why is he telling me what to do? Chell. Somebody's going to, what they say? Somebody's going to tell you when to eat, shit, sleep. It's chill. Prepare yourself for it. You complaining the whole time, but you're ready for a jailer.

Would you do it again if you were given the opportunity? Yeah, I could do it again. I mean, I hate to say it, but jealous, Joe, it is what it is. I don't know if it's just, like, I don't want to. to go to jail. That's why I chose a different path for myself. I made my life better. You know, I'm not saying I'm better than nobody else, but I do what I do to try to help others. And I feel like me doing it, I'm able to reach people a little bit more different. That's why I wanted to be in law enforcement, especially the way I am and where I come from.

It's try to help the people that, like me, I grew up with that circle that kept me, you know, tame, right? Like, kept me in the, in the, like, I'm not going to say it eight, but tech to me, but they made sure, like, hey, if you want to be in the streets, this would come with? You know, like my parents, they never hit nothing from me. Like, if you do crack, that's you're going to be right there. See that?

What happened when you do drugs? Oh, look, this is what happened when you don't roll your own weed. Somebody going to lace it. Right? And that's why I come to the ditty stuff, right? Like, oh, they were drinking alcohol, and the alcohol was, you know what I do when I go to people's parties? You know, this

regular juice? Like, is it something in the head, like, you know, and that's how, like, if, you don't let nobody pass your open bottle, right? That's how I was raised. You don't take stuff from people you don't know. No matter what, the environment you ain't. Right? Like, when you buy a drink in a club, you take your drink with you,

you don't leave it on the table and come back and drink it. You know what I'm saying? So, it's just the, that whole jet, I should have just retarded, well, but, you know, people want to be in certain positions and they complain about it. I said my family didn't raise me to complain about nothing. It was as if you do something, stand on it. Have kids, take care of your kids.

That's it. You know, you do something in the street. If anybody put a gun to your head and tell you to do it, then you did it. And I hold it down. Can't snitch on nobody. You know, family ain't going to... Can't snitch on nobody.

Because now, like me, I'd rather be in law enforcement than be called a rat or snitch. You know what I'm saying? So at least I'm doing something positive. Like I'm saving lives here. You know what I'm saying? And Lala ain't giving me no hugging kiss. You know what I'm saying?

Like, yeah, and I'm jealous. I don't care if nobody's. Hey, yeah, I'm jealous. She ain't come and giving me no hug. You just want to sit down with Lala. Yeah, like she ain't giving me no hugging kiss. And I'm out here saving lives. You know what I'm saying?

You know, I'm out here dealing with stuff where sometimes I'm in a situation like, yo, that was crazy. I almost ain't make at home. Yo, this dude just rubbed his blood all over me. I had to hold his face together after he got shot in the face. You think people come to me and be like, oh, thank you. You think after a female get shot by a dude because she ain't talking to him, you think she's going to be like, oh, thank you.

Nope. Didn't anybody tell me thank you? Well, I appreciate it. No, I'm just saying, but then you get people out of fuck the poll of you, a piece of shit. You don't even know what I do. But that's why it's good to have these conversations. You know, more law enforcement needs to do that and not be so anti that, you know. Yeah, and that's why I'll do this because, and my mother, she always,

push me to do this stuff because we have conversations and we talk about it all the time and she's like, nah, I want you to, and I don't like talking about it. Like me, like I said, I was talking, you did pretty good. You went for two hours to them. Yeah, because I lately been, you know, trying to open up about it because my mom just like, yo,

like, tell people, you know, my pops, like, because after I got in the law enforcement, I started showing them videos and showing them how people act and they're like, damn. You know what I'm saying? And everybody always think black people got a problem with the police. Black people don't have no problem with the police at all.

Black people don't have problem with the police. All the ignorant people, yes. Ignorant people? Yes, the people that, oh, y'all just bothering me for no reason. Bro, you are a problem in society, bro. You're known for carrying the gun. You're known for doing stuff. You know what I'm saying?

Those are the people that blow cops is harassing. Do they harassing, they bother you? Yeah. You got dickheads. It's like we got dickhead civilians. you got dickhead cops And trust me, behind the scenes A lot of cops get into a lot of altercations

Because other cops do dumb shit Like, oh, bro, what the fuck is wrong with you? You know what I'm saying? So people People just gotta get that We gotta get that balance. And will we get the balance? Probably not. Right? Probably not.

Just like Kamala Harris Every time I want legalized marijuana. So when everybody starts doing crack, you're going to legalize crack too? You know what I'm saying? People are going to break rules regardless. I'm saying? And even when she was just like,

oh, what you're going to do for a black men that's in jail? Well, I don't care what color you are. You commit a crime. You're going to jail. And I don't have nothing to do with that because every state is different on how they run their jails. Right?

Rocks Island, wild fucking place. Utah County, you're not doing that. You know what I'm saying? So everybody running this shit, how they run it. You know what I'm saying? So we just got to find out. balancing law enforcement in society and I and I'm trying to do that and it's a lot of guys that are you know like trade Mosley he's um he's another guy from LA LA copping he discusses a lot about

you know he he breaks it down way better than I can about policing and stuff like that how people act and the interactions he have and stuff like that so you know we just got to try to fix that that that that problem saying like people love the police man people people people love the police you might not like it the only people that don't like the police or have a more of an issue with the police the people that want to, what, commit crimes, right? Yeah. Right?

Like people that want the jail system and be better. How about we stay a fuck away from there? It's like a ditty party, right? Like a ditty party. Like, if you know what shit going on there, why you keep going back? It's very true.

Like, fuck, no. Like, what I were going to go back to Utah County if I had to go to jail? Absolutely. I'm myself 20 hours of day. The food is good. I get to work in a J.I. Program, get to go outside, freely.

Yeah. Fuck yeah. What I do it on Rockers Island? Fuck no You know what I'm saying It's dirty You know Every COs is

Because Rackxon COs is chill Because you got to be chill So yeah I don't want to do my job In Rockas Island You know what I'm saying It's weird People just want to beat you up

Because they want to But if I had to Sit on Rackett Yeah I know how to move Like yeah Now I got to Got a fight

It is what it is Just try not to get cut But it's just It's just a whole different environment man And like I said, these celebrities, man, they ruining these kids, man. Because now every kid think they got to go to Jed to have his success story. Now, how am I supposed to tell a young kid now you could, don't be in the streets?

But then you got people like, like, when you watch like a young thug and a little dirt situation, it's like, oh, I can mess my life up. They didn't get it right. And guess what? People going to have sympathy for me. People are going to show me more love. Yeah, a lot of these kids look up to individuals like that. Exactly. Why do you think all these kids move forward?

they move. And I just be like that. That's crazy. No kids don't want to work. And that's what Omaha with the Hellcat was saying. I was like, y'all can't even find a plumber. No kids, these young kids want to work.

I mean, guess what? The dude that got out of jail. You're going to tell you, yeah, I did 15 years. Now I'm a plumber. I got my plumbing business. Like, fuck. Like, why we got to keep going with that success story? That's not a success story.

I'm happy that people get their life together that did it. The people that did it once and got these shit together, I'm like, I respect it. I respect it. 100%. But all these dudes that keep going back and forth

and back and forth. Come on, son. You ain't getting it. You ain't doing nothing. You're still trying to leach off of people. Still trying to rob people. People that work all for their stuff. And when you show so much sympathy,

even when you see the videos of people stealing hell cats and all of this stuff, like them dudes go to jail people like yeah free him free him but I just pay a hundred grand for my damn car you're going to steal it I work hard you know what I'm saying time after time I work hard and then now the criminal

get to go to jail it's not a violent crime then now he get to have the best best life I think he don't toll your fucking car up probably had one of a con too you know what I'm saying put all your work into it you know the insurance ain't going to pay for the work you put into it they're going to pay for the base model of the car

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at serena and lily.com. And people who don't care more about the criminal than they got, than the suspect. Well, I mean, then the victim. Hopefully, you know, this interview today inspire some people to listen to your advice. I'm saying, everybody are listening. People going to be like, oh, you're a sucker and shit.

You know what I'm saying? Like, it is what it is. Like, I just keep my young ins that I was able to take under the wing. Like I said, I woke past them every day, go to projects, walk past them, go to, go to, go, head go over there, walk through Brooklyn. My mother was shocked one day this inmate came up to me and hug me. She's like, well, you know, why are you hugging you?

Like, no, I was one of the young inmates I had. And then she's like that. She's like, at that point, she's just like, she was proud of me. You know what I'm saying? Because, yeah, everybody's going to listen to a rapper, but I could tell you the same thing. I could, like, I could tell you I've been, I'm not going to say I've been in a situation on people's shoes, you know, because some people's situations are fucked up where they have to, if I go off a bed,

if I had to feed my family, I'm going to do what I got to do for my family. Right? So, because you can't get a job. And guess what? All the girls like the tough guys anyway. Right? Because that's what boys,

why do you think all these guys walk around here being tough because girls like it. But I'm telling you, be the police, they're going to like you too. You be a CO, they're going to like you too. Trust me, you know, girls, when they used to come visit their dudes, come on.

COs is taking in me. these girlfriends home. I've heard of that, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, you don't think your girl coming to visit you, she's using that as excuse to come see, you know, other COs.

Ruthless. Yeah. You ever bring a girl's, you ever bring one home? Nah, I ain't bring no one home, you know what I'm saying? But you get, like, don't think,

stop thinking that, oh. Mr. Stelio girl. Yeah, Mr. Stig. Like I'm saying, like some, some CEOs is in full relationship with dudes,

dudes, uh, girlfriends now. You know what I'm saying? So, they, they're messing with our CO, chicks. We're messing with day chicks.

That's very true. You know what I'm saying? So don't, like, it's, yo, it's okay to work, man. It's okay to get a job. Just because you're in law enforcement, correction officer, police officers, security. Everybody's going to message the same girl. Yeah. Shout out to all of our law enforcement officers listening. Yeah, you know, everybody's going to message, trust me. You don't think all these law enforcement dudes out of here, chicks are in.

Chicks are a lot of the uniform. You see how they be taking pictures of dudes and all of this stuff? You know what I'm saying? Come on. They like the tough guys too, but... They love a felon, though. They love a felon, though. But, you know, they love them to a certain extent because they're going to like who they like regardless.

You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, don't think that you got to be in the streets. I mean, it's just a faster way to get to the girls, but you still can be outside. You can still go outside. It's okay. They're all in the clubs there at college. Go to college.

With, I was listening to Camaro podcast, right? And he was like, the girls get their hooning this out in college. Like, that's the time. Go to college, bro. Go to college. You was like, oh, the girls, you know, they feel like if they get it done in college, once they get successful, you know,

all that don't matter no more. So go to college, bro. I wish I would have went to college. I always, like, I should have went to college. But, listen, the girls are going to be everywhere. And you don't want that dirty girl that been around a bunch of street dudes. You know what I'm saying?

Because girls, they start to realize certain lifestyle. They realize, like, no, I don't want this dude no more. He a piece of shit. you don't want work like bro but you knew that though because streets don't last forever that shit comes to the end real quick

everybody can't be big meets everybody can't be big meets you know what I'm saying and when you get locked up that girl that you let you want to get married and you know you're about to do time better hurry up and get married so get your visits

and know your girl is yours but bro you're about to go away somebody gonna be with your girl and downtown 10 it's probably going to be somebody that's already in the circle. Like, God forbid if dirt, right, his situation, he found guilty he got to do all these years.

Who you think you're going to mess with? She ain't going to go find no random dude, no regular dude. It's going to be another rapper. Or it's going to be somebody in the camp where it can't get out. You know what I'm saying? But you got to be careful. And that's why you can't take your family. You lose all of that when you go to jail.

And they want you to lose all that. So you got to stay away from it. If you ain't prepared for that, if you were jealous dude, don't go to jail. If you think your girl is your girl, don't go to jail. But you know, I realize I lost in life. And I was like, Dad, like, dudes in jail really get all the girls. You know, like, dudes will get their visits. And they be like, who is it?

You be like, yo, I think I named Keisha. He's like, nah, tell her, I don't want to see her. I'm waiting for Kim to show up. You're like, what the fuck? dudes be on the phone yelling at different girls send me the fucking money are you hanging up the phone on girls

These girls do it I'm like yo I get an argument with a chick Life is over They're loyal You know what I'm saying I get an argument

I don't want to talk to you no more You're a piece of shit It's like yo These girls be boohoo Who are crying over dudes It's like yo that's crazy It is And out and out

And it was a military dude He was like I was in maintain My girlfriend She didn't know me I was away in Iraq for her. I'm like, damn, but a dude that's doing 10 years in a job, girl, going to hold it down. I said, this is crazy. Anybody, how are you going to tell people to do the right thing?

When the wrong thing is the right thing to do, if that makes sense, right? It's like the wrong thing is the right thing to do. You're very right. But thank you, bro, for coming on the show today, man. Absolutely. It was great talking with you today, Chad. And thanks for spending your Sunday with me. Yeah, absolutely.

I really, like I said, I want to sit in room with people that's probably. I mean, we could go have this conversation back and forth, man. Because, like, I always had this conversation with people back and forth all the time, man. And like I said, we got to try to find that balance, man. I mean, yeah, if you've been to jail, cool. Like I said, my family's been to jail. I got a family member in jail right now. I got one of my little brother, his friends, in jail right now.

God be just acocording. Yeah, having this dialogue is good. You know what I'm saying? Get home. Yeah. Use the programs. So that way you get home, you're not depending on nobody. Well, you just said there was too many programs.

Nah, but I mean, yeah, but you might. But if it's free, use the program. You know what I'm saying? But like I said, call your loved one. If they're in jail right now, call them and be like, what you got going on? If they ain't got nothing going on, yeah, they're going to wander right back. Especially if they got a short time. They got a short time.

They're going to wander right back. Wise words of the day. That's that. Listen, call them. If they worried about who got shot on the block or who beefing with who. Yeah, fucked up. He already going to wind up back in jail. You got to make sure those people, especially if you love your kids

and you've got to love one in there, encourage them to take advantage of the programs. It's day it's free. You know, you want to make sure they come home, try to get home to a job, you know, at least plumbing, something they could do working on cars, whatever it is, where they, you know, could make money to do something for themselves other than trying to get a job, you know. So, you know, like I said, I was saluted old. of guys that went to jail, started their entrepreneurship and building flowers, chefs.

I mean, selling flowers, being a chef, you know, working on cars. Those guys, those the guys you want to want to talk to. Everybody can't be Big Meach. Big Meach was a different type of guy. That's why everybody respect them so much. Not I mean? So success, man. Everybody can't be Big Meach.

I would love to be Big Meach, but everybody can't be Big Meach, man. Big Meach. said, beg me situation, I'm happy at home. And I hope he'd do the right thing and stuff like that. But he's one of those guys, when you follow the situation, both parents in the house, went to church every Sunday, caring family. But things do happen. And what he did, he tried to help people get money.

He wanted everybody to be good. He didn't care about robbing people. And how did he get rich? Because people bought it. right it's like McDonald's like oh McDonald's is bad for you but we still fucking buying it they're still buying it right

like you're still buying the McDonald's you're making McDonald's rich if you want if you feel like McDonald's is a piece of shit then we got to stop buying McDonald's but now we're all fucking in the line you know what I'm saying that's why all these and like I said right people would be mad at the drug dealer

they're mad at the person I'm taking the drugs fucking mad at the drug dealer for you just Listen, if I got poison and people buying it, that's your fault. So, like, the guy Roach, as I used to tell him, like, bro, you, if you're a lab rat, then you're a lab rat. You're making a drug dealer rich. If I'm selling something and it kill you, oh, well. If people keep buying it from you, oh, well, that's your fault.

You're buying it. You don't have to buy it. How many times you hear about drugs killing people? all the time exactly and guess what people like fuck yeah let's do it let's do this drug like even when i was in there in the program you're hearing people like nah when i get out of here i'm gonna do a whole line of cloak oh i'm taking two blues and i'm gonna get i'm gonna get a narcan have a narcan on a stand by i'm like yo these dudes don't want to get right it doesn't make sense doesn't make sense like and i'm like how you're gonna be mad at a drug deal it can't be mad at drug dealer because the drug addicts is

making them rich can't be mad at those people. So shout out the big niche, man. I'm happy home, man. Hopefully he could encourage people, I mean, what can you encourage people to do nowadays? To do the right thing. Can't because the wrong thing is the right thing now. Well, you try. So now you just be, like I said, you just be like, everybody just choose their own path. And like I said, if you want to be in the streets, you want to be a gangster. Gangster life is lonely. So if you're not prepared to be alone by yourself and not complain about it, don't do no cry.

But thank you again, man. And safe travels back. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I appreciate the opportunity. Of course.