Locked In with Ian Bick - Former NFL Player Reveals How The NFL Controls The Media When A Player Gets Arrested | John Moffitt

Episode Date: April 11, 2024

Former NFL Player John Moffitt candidly recounts his journey to the NFL, navigating through controversies on the field, brushes with the law, grappling with the effects of CTE, and shedding light on the profound influence of the NFL on media narratives. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with John Moffitt: https://www.instagram.com/moffitt74/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:04:55 - Embracing Differences and Overcoming Bullying 00:09:37 - Personal Growth and Change 00:14:17 - The Swedish Prison System and Prison Content Creation 00:18:56 - The Inversion of Common Law 00:28:12 - The Impact of Football on Life and Career 00:32:48 - Quitting the NFL due to a degenerative brain disease 00:37:29 - College Experiences and Getting Into Trouble 00:42:10 - The Roller Coaster of My Personal Life 00:47:07 - Arrest and Jail Experience 00:52:03 - Recovery 00:57:04 - Addictive personality and gambling 01:01:59 - Channeling Addiction into Business and Football 01:06:51 - Disappointment in the NFL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I got arrested in Chicago with like a ton, a ton of drugs, you know? So that was like, like ESPN picked up the story. Like, NFL didn't really like me at that point. And people have no clue how much like leverage the NFL has in the media. Like the sports media, like they're dying to help the NFL because they don't get those contracts. They're not going to make any money. So there's a lot of times where the NFL can easily say like, hey, pick this story up.

It was national news like before I even got out of jail. Welcome back to the Locked in with the Invik podcast. On today's episode, I have John Moffat, a former NFL. player to share his story, including his run-ins with the law. I had an interesting and amazing conversation with John, and I'm so excited to share it with you today. So sit back, relax, and get ready to lock in with John Moffat. Well, John Moffat, welcome to Lockton. Absolute pleasure to have you here today. Thanks to Patrick and, you know, for connecting us and having you on the show today. Yeah, man, thanks for, thanks for having me. I haven't done a podcast. I'm like,

I feel like a long time, you know, so it's cool to be back. on one. Yeah. This is a little bit different, you know, a little different setting. And it's in Connecticut. Who would have thought? You're from Connecticut. Did you grow up in Connecticut? I did. I grew up in Guilford. Gilford. Yeah. Shoreline town. It's like right outside New Haven. Who was your guys like rivalry back in the day? Madison. Madison. The next town over. That's where Patrick lives, right? Madison. He lives in Madison. Okay. Interesting. What was childhood like growing up? Good, good generic. Like, you know, that's like a deep, that's like a psychology question.

Let's go over your challenge. Draw some pictures. Like, I got to start off strong. Damn, do you lead in with that a lot for people? Always, yeah. Because it makes a connection to, you know, maybe what happened later with them or something like that.

Yeah, we always like to get, so my whole thing is, because I was in prison and I got arrested, and that's how, like, this whole thing formed. Yeah. And I bring people on the show that have,

like, gone through really, really shitty situations. And when you look at the person beyond what their situation was, and you get to know that they grew up similar to you and they grew up had like a normal childhood. Like the Chevy episode,

people got to know what his childhood was like and who he was. Before he went on to become a worldwide, phenomenon, people get to understand that they're just a normal person too. And it kind of like humanizes people in that respect. So I always like to start there and then work our way through.

So people fall in love with the character before anything bad or failure or anything occurs in your life. That's pretty cool. That's a good, that's interesting. That's interesting. Normal, normal childhood, honestly. Like a blue collar family. My dad was in contracting. You know, pretty nice, nice town. Like now it's become like a little more affluent, you know, just because people are realizing like how beautiful it is. There's also like an influx of people from New York. But when I grew up, it was kind of more like a farm town kind of deal, you know, that was on the shoreline. So yeah, I would say it had a pretty, pretty average.

Other than being, like, physically larger than everybody else for my whole life. And then also, I think sports being an athlete, definitely affected. It wasn't, like, normal, normal. You know what I mean? Especially as I became, like, really good, you know? So I think that kind of always changes things. You kind of become more, like, a little bit of an outsider in that regard, you know? But great parents, you know, parents together have a younger sister.

Yeah, I would say pretty normal childhood, pretty blue collar. American kind of childhood. And to put in perspective, you're 6'4. Yeah. You're your big guy. Yeah, yeah. I just had to raise the camera all the way up. Yeah.

And always, like, big in school, too, even when you're young, you know, so, like, I had the desk, like, all the kids of desks were in groups and the kids' desks were all the same. And then mine was, like, four inches taller than their desk because, like, I wouldn't fit under the normal one, like, stuff like that. That I feel like you always feel like you're little, yeah, you're a little bit different. You know what I mean? Not exactly, like, one of the group. But I feel like maybe everybody feels like that.

Not sure. But, yeah. How'd that make you feel? feel being looking different and being in that setting. I think you just get used to it. You know what I mean? And then you start to kind of develop like your personality around that. You know what I mean?

You get comfortable with it. And then you realize, okay, I'm not exactly the same. I think it did lend to, you know, I think I do see the world a little different than people. And I'm also not afraid to have like a little more of a controversial opinion because you're kind of used to being like a little bit different, a little bit on the outside. Sports success definitely makes you feel, it's weird because it's a duality because you have a team. but at the same time, when you come home, you're definitely the only one doing what you're doing.

So I kind of felt like maybe that as well, you know? Was anyone like embracing your difference body-wise and saying, hey, like you're going to be a great athlete, like own it, this and that? Because I feel like when I was in school and I was different in my own, you know, quirky ways, that wasn't necessarily embraced. It was kind of like frowned upon.

That's a great. That's an interesting point. Yeah. I feel like amongst your peers, you can get teased a little bit. You know what I mean? And you're like, oh, you know, you're tall or your fat kid or you're a freak or whatever. But I feel like, yeah, older people definitely embrace your, you're tall, you're going to be

a basketball player, you're going to do this. So you're right. There is like a positive spin to that, you know what I mean? Which maybe also allows you to be like a little more confident in it, you know? Yeah, I think we need more people like that in the world that are kind of embracing the people that are different. Yeah. So many kids get bullied and stuff for being different.

Yeah, bullying is an interesting thing, though, because it's like I, you don't want it to be too bad, but you also don't want none of it. Because it does make us like even my hard times, like even when I was bullied, I'm still kind of thankful for it because I feel like those things do make you tough. I don't like to see like crazy bullying when they're like doing stuff that's like destroying a person's life. You know what I mean? Like a little bit of teasing and stuff. I think that's natural. You know?

What was your, how did you feel different? Well, so I was always a kid called like Twinkie or Chubbs. I was fat and like chubby. Like I was if you look at the pictures of me on Google, I had like triple chin and everything like that. but I was the kid that was just like super creative. Like I did musical theater in a world where everyone does sports. So I was the only friend in my group that did musical theater and they would have me dress up as Milton Burrow dressing as a woman.

And I would... Damn, in school? In school? It was in a musical theater camp. That was in the actual high school. But I did theater all four years at Danbury High School. Yeah. And I would put the high heels on, the lipstick, the wig.

Really? I loved doing that because I was a center of attention. How old were you? I was 10. or 11. Are you serious? And then I went on to be like this party promoter in high school. I'd walk in.

I thought it was cool to wear a suit and tie to public school. My dad's different like fish colored ties because he's a caterer, these funky ties. Yeah. I had a briefcase. I had a phone. I would answer my phone mid class. Just, you know, I wanted to be different at all costs. Like, I love being different now.

Yeah. What I do is different. Absolutely. So I think at a young age, I always embraced that. But more so than ever back then, people were so against. Like I was always just the outsider, but I was okay with that. Right. But all my friends needed to fit into the norm.

And I just saw how like they were looked at and how parents looked at me in stuff. Right, right. Were there girls in the theater camp though that could have played the female parts? Or was just like, really? But because it was, have you heard of Milton Borough? No. So he was known for, he went on like, he had late shows or something back in the days, I think in the 30s or 40s, something like that. He was known for dressing as a woman.

for dressing as a woman on stage. And then they had me play Ed Sullivan, a couple other famous people, but that was his thing. And the theater camp was called Milton Borough Theater Camp. No, that was just so every year it was called Summer on stage. Yeah. And we would reenact every summer would be a different year, like a different theme. So this was like that era. And they had me do a sketch or skit going on stage as Milton Burrow. And they were like, would you be okay doing this? I'm like, yeah, because I was the highlight of the show. Because that was the only one dressed as a woman. That's crazy to think about nowadays, though.

Yeah, I would be totally different. But like the sensitivities nowadays, like, because the first thing that comes to mind for me is like drag, drag, uh, drag queen story time. Yeah. You know what I mean? And could you imagine like if people, that's like an interesting. Oh, and if you had your kid do that in school and stuff.

Right, right. It was a different time period. What social media wasn't, there was no, Facebook was just beginning. Right. This was like 0-607. Yeah. Facebook was just beginning. And, um, there was no.

there was nothing else really. I know, Instagram started a couple of years later. Right. It was totally different world. Wow. Yeah. But I loved it and I owned it. Yeah.

Yeah. What were you bullied for? Just your looks? Oh, yeah. Just being bigger. Okay. The biggest thing, I mean, teased, I wouldn't call bullied. I'd just say teased.

And then when I was in high school, definitely had problems. Like, when I was a freshman, like, almost got into a couple fights with, like, seniors and stuff like that. Just because you're bigger. So they look at you like, you know. And also I was, you know, I wasn't going to do what they fucking said. So, like, there was kind of that thing. And then that pretty much ended, though, like, right around, like, sophomore year, junior year because you're just, you're bigger than everybody.

You know what I mean? So it kind of a little bit when you're young. But, again, I feel like with me, you know, I'm kind of thankful for stuff like that. And I also think even if it puts a chip on your shoulder, that's a good thing, too. You know what I mean? Like, you kind of like, it sounds like you did it too. Like, you're kind of thankful for those things. You know, it makes you who you are.

You know, and I think that's a cool thing to get. get to that point. Like, I've been in points in my life where I was like, not only do I not like who I am, I don't like my past either. You know what I mean? So it's cool to be in a place where you can say, like, man, I like who I am and that's because of my past, you know? So, yeah, I mean, I just look at the growth, you know, and everyone grows. You can't judge, like people judge people from who they were 10 years ago, five years ago. You're not that same person anymore. Yeah, I agree. I mean, definitely evil people for sure. There's evil people out there. But for the most part, you feel like people really are, like, they're trying.

You know what I mean? And all of our trying is like different levels. You know what I mean? Like where you're at, if you're trying where you're at, then, you know, that's great. Yeah. And that's why it's so important for people to see where you came from. Yeah. And what childhood was like because you could, not saying you personally, but you, someone

sitting in that chair could turn out to be the villain. But at one point they weren't the villain. So why did they become the villain? Right. At what point in their story do they change? Yeah. And I think that's fascinating. Like finding out like how the person.

and changed and why. And a lot of the times it has to do with their childhood or something that happened back then. I always like to say it for my employees, because I find now people are a little bit soft. You know what I mean? And a little bit like, you know, a lot about our feelings and stuff like that and not enough about like, hey, man, I got a job to do or I'm here to do this or I need to do that, like respecting something a little greater than yourself. I think it's an interesting balance. But I'd love to say to my employees, I'm always like, hey man, don't be afraid to be the villain in someone else's story, you know? And to an extent, like, we're all villains in someone else's story. we're all heroes in our own, you know?

But I think that's true. You definitely, when you humanize a villain, like you can definitely turn them into a hero, you know? Yeah. So, I mean, there's obviously, and we're, you know what? Dude, I'm fascinated by the coldest people too, though. Like, the people are so fascinated by like the Jeffrey Dahmer's and the Gacy's and all these people of the world,

probably because they were so, they don't even have that. You know what I mean? Like sociopaths and psychopaths do fascinate people. Do you ever think that you've had a sociopath or psychopath on the show? Not really because ours is always like a motivation. inspirational, like, type arc to it. I mean, there are people, I think the fraud guys that are, that are maybe the less, um, sorry.

Yeah. They, they, they are less forgiving, I guess you would call it. Yeah. The fraud guys to what they did. I'm not saying all of them, but most of them. But then the people that went to, the guy, I've had guys sit in the chair that have been to prison for murder and they are completely changed, like extremely sorry and like their life's changed, you know.

because of it. So you always see, and then I'll talk to some people there, like, ducking restitution or this and that, you know, so it's so, it's just crazy in that sense. And that's where I guess you get into like the realm of psychology and, and narcissism and all of that kind of stuff too. So in terms of rehabilitation, like, do you think prison actually rehabilitates people? Or do you think that it's like kind of just? Absolutely not. I mean, the prison itself, I think it's your mental state combined with the prison. Yeah. Like how you're able to adapt. Like to me, prison was the best thing that could ever happen to me, but I didn't know that while I was in prison, and I didn't know that in the three years after prison. Did you go to prison or jail?

Prison. Prison. Federal prison. You spent some time there? Yeah, three years. I was in Danbury for a little bit, too. Yeah, it was kind of all over the place. Do you ever hear Tuxedo Junction back in the day? Tuxedo Junction? That sounds really for me. Yeah, it was a big club in Danbury. It was kind of like a Toad's Place in New Haven. Okay, yeah, yeah. They had big rock shows and whatever, and I ended up taking it over when I was 18. And I did the show, these shows with like Steve Ioki, the chain spokesers, adventure club, like big names. Yeah, yeah.

But I lost a shitload of money before that doing concerts. And that's how like this whole accidental Ponzi scheme came to that. So it was just like HBO did a documentary about it. It's off HBO now because they merge with Discover. But we're working towards a book and, you know, hopefully something will come out of that. But I don't even really focus on my story now. I just built my platform off other people's stories. Right, absolutely.

We had one to go viral the other day, 13 million views of a prison guard talking about the smell in Rikers Island. It's literally crazy. Right. But it was just, it's incredible how life takes you full circle. That's what I'm fascinated by. But I didn't learn that from prison.

Like prison didn't prepare me for what I do now. Right, right. And they kind of just throw you the wolves and the system's designed to set you up for failure. Probation, excessive amounts of probation. They treat you literally worse after you've done your time than even, you know, anything. Yeah.

Which is insane, just the strictness and the living conditions and halfway houses and the system screwed up. Yeah. And it takes conversations like this to change that. Absolutely. That's interesting. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting when you think of our system and then you think of, like, how it is in Sweden and stuff like that.

You know what I mean? Like, there was a guy, I don't know if you ever heard of him, his name's like Anders Breivik. You ever heard of him? He killed like 70 people on like a mass like shooting and everything like that. And he's in like a Swedish prison. They didn't even give him like, they didn't even execute him or any. You know what I mean? They didn't, nothing.

He's just in jail for life. But their prisons look like dorm rooms. You know what I mean? Like they're way more and they're really trying to like move you out of them. You know what I mean? And like move it along. But no, that's really interesting. I agree.

So is your goal prison reform to an extent or no? I mean, I don't. So I think there's this whole world of prison content creation. And I think you have like half of it, which is into like prison reform. Then you have another half that's like into reentry. And what I do is I put a different spin on it. I, mine's about entertainment and motivation mixed together.

Yeah. And in return, you get those stories out to way more people than the people that are pushing reform. And this has the effect because reform is a little bit boring if you're saying we need to reform our prisons. Right. If I'm telling a story and sharing a story of how a guy got stabbed in prison, that goes viral. That raises awareness of what we need to change in the prison system. How could we let that happen? if I'm telling a story about how I got extorted in prison or this or that, I think that raises more awareness.

And in return, that promotes reentry because of what I've been able to build off of my experience and the reform aspect. No, that makes sense. Now are people willing to listen at the government level? Who knows? But, you know, you'd be surprised a lot of politicians. Like, they're kind of weary about going down this path into dealing with prison influencers. Some states are great. Like I've been invited into Arkansas, the county jails, and I'm going to Nashville next month and speaking to a county jails and stuff.

And some are really great about it and want to fix things. Others, I'll reach out to people and they don't give you the time of day. Yeah. You know, it's interesting because in my experience, so I never went to prison. I went to jail a bunch of times. You know what I mean? I got arrested, different things. It's so pay to play, you know?

Like, and I know if I got a good lawyer, especially when I was playing, get the best lawyer I can find. it's almost like it's done before it's even started. Like I've literally walked into court and I've had a judge almost like stop things and start telling me like how good of a job I did picking my lawyer. You know what I mean? Because they were like friends and like he's like you got a really great lawyer here. I can tell you're going to go to rehab. You want to change.

Like we're going to, you know what I mean? Like we're going to fix this up. You know? And that was like, that was like felonies. You know what I mean? Like I was, as when I got arrested in Chicago. and I had like cocaine, ecstasy, marijuana, pills. Like they thought I was dealing, which I wasn't.

It was just for use. But I'm a big guy. You know what I mean? Like so it was for personal use. And yeah, anytime I really got in trouble, I always shelled out the cash and the problems were solved. You know what I mean? Which is, you know, it's not really justice.

And I think that's more on the state level. Because in the feds, like, you can have all the money in the world if they want you, they got you. You look at like the senators that are getting arrested now. Guys with power, they don't play in that level. Yeah. It might help you money in the short term, like staying out on bond and pushing things back and continuances. Right.

But on the state, it's so affected by money because I saw when I hired a local attorney for local misdemeanor cases related, the club. Yeah. He was able to make side door phone calls, a quick text to, hey, we got this thing moved. The average person couldn't do that. Yeah, they all make, I mean, and that's the funny thing, man. Like, they're all in the bar association, right? So that's where you start to be like, is this even real? Like the judge is in the bar association, right?

Like the judge is accredited by the bar. And then the lawyers are credited by the bar. And then the only person there that's not is you. And so you kind of start to think of it. You're like, oh, this is kind of already fixed. Have you ever heard of like the maritime law? How they do all that stuff? You ever go down that rabbit hole?

No, I've heard of that, but I never really dove into it. That's like a crazy thing where they basically say like all this stuff is commercial maritime law. And they kind of like build it out like it's a ship. And you're going when you cross that boundary, You know, when you go through the door, like now you're going on to water. So it's like the rules of the high seas. It's like pirate stuff. And then everything that they have you for is, um, most things are infractions in uniform

commercial code. You know what I mean? Like most things. If it's a real crime, then yeah. But, uh, so then they kind of get you on like a lot of like admiralty law and stuff like that. That's all just commercial infractions. You know, your, your speeding ticket is a commercial infraction, but they're treating

you like a corporation. Do you see what I'm saying? They're treating you like you're a corporate entity. And it's like all this. deep level stuff and that's how they kind of get away because really common law is the law of the land. You know what I mean? So common law is really basic like I hurt you, right? So I damaged you. So now you deserve restitution. Like that's really the whole of common law. But they do like all their little infractions. They claim that it's the law, but that's really just uniform commercial

code. And they'll tell you. It's all in UCC, which I find like that's like a whole other level. How do you stumble across this thing? What do you watch a documentary or something? I didn't want to be a part of I didn't want to pay taxes. So I didn't want to be a part of the United States, like, government or anything. And I also didn't feel like I needed a license for anything, right? Like, I don't need permission to, like, drive. I don't need permission to have a gun. I don't need permission to do any of this stuff.

That's all illegal, you know, like, it's the reverse. So I just went down this rabbit hole. And back in the day, YouTube used to be, like, really, like, free. Like, you would search stuff on YouTube and you could get, like, stuff about anything. You know what I mean? And I kind of just went down like this. It was right after I had like a lot of personal issues and I wasn't like doing a ton of my life. And I was just like watching all these YouTube videos. And I found like some interesting stuff on this. But I actually used it to like fight a traffic ticket once just to see if it worked, you know? So I wrote a bond, you know, and I used an exemption. Because they basically say like, you know, we're all in the company's bankrupt or excuse me. The country's bankrupt. Right. And what's formed is the United States. corporation. That's why it's all in like the United States. It's all in like capital letters because it's a corporation, you know. And what they gave for collateral, uh, because we went bankrupt to whatever accredited, associated, whatever bankers or whatever it is, uh, they gave like us

and our labor and everything as collateral, you know? So they claim that you can use your social security to pay debts because there's no legal money. Like in like a, like a dollar or whatever is like a federal, you're probably like, holy shit, are we going down this, this rabbit? A dollar is like a federal reserve note. It's not real money and it's not backed by anything, right? It's fiat currency. So technically it's just a debt note. So because there's no real legal tender to pay anything,

you can actually write bonds and pay stuff with your social security. And what you're doing is you're actually giving the system like more credit or debt to work with because they're working in debt because they're inversed. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's like an inversion. But I told a guy that I did that. so I wrote a bond.

I used my whole name and I signed it and I sent it into them and I let the secretary of state know and then I sent it into the accredited like, you know, when they collect tickets, it's like an infractions company. It's like a credit collector. I sent it into them. I'm like, oh, I'm going to use my exemption, blah, blah, blah. And like I went into court when I had my court day and I came in and they were like as soon as I came in and this was for weed.

Like I was driving around with like a ton of weed and I got a ticket for it. And I came in and they were like, oh, no, you don't owe us anything. you don't owe us any money and you can you can go now and that's it and like maybe you should go like get a get a license for for pot or whatever and they just like let me out i talked to one of the guys that like like does all this stuff and he was like yeah dude all they did was they took your signature now and they loaned it out 10 times just like you would do fractional lending and they probably made 10 times whatever that that like money you owed them was they probably made 10 times that by using your signature as a bond because it's like it puts life into it you know yeah

Yeah, yeah. So that shit was crazy. And I didn't know what to believe. But I remember like walking in and dude, like, there's like all the black guys were like lined up and like, what the fuck, man. Like you know what I mean? Like how do you get out and shit? And I was like, even I was like, I don't know, man. I think maybe they did use this because they never, they never bothered me again about it. And I owed them money and everything. Supposedly. And they just like let me go. You're going to have some people trying this out now. It's crazy, dude. It's like a whole other thing about like the way justice is done and how they can get away with things. You know, because everything's about your honor when you go in there. You know, I mean, like honor is like a really big thing when you go to court. That's why they call the judge, like, your honor, you know? And it's why they cross-examine you. You know what I mean? Because they're trying to see if your conscious mind conflicts with your subconscious mind. And if there's a confliction or there's a schism, then you're a liar. You know what I mean? And if there's not, and it's effervescent, then you have your honor. That's kind of like how they do it. It's wacky.

Legalese, like, have you heard of legalese? Like, the way they talk in court. And they actually, look at you like because you need representation when you go to court, you're like not a real person because you can't even speak in the court. Like you don't have a voice in the court and you don't. Only your lawyer does. So like you actually have a lot of power if you represent yourself in court because you have a firsthand account of the situation as opposed to the lawyers that don't. So if you're playing against a lawyer and he has a secondhand or no account of the situation and you actually experience and you're testifying with the truth, it's really hard to go again. Especially if you use like affidavits. There's guys that like try to use affidavits and shit like that to like move

things forward. It's fascinating. It's a whole other realm of stuff. But it's just another like level to to me the justice system that's just like insane. Yeah. I mean, I think if you're telling the truth and you're testifying it works. But the reason why you lawyers choose not to put their client on the stand is because most of the time the client's not telling the truth in some of these situations. That's when it backfires. Well, and also though like again, like think back in like common law days. common law days, you would stand before a king or a judge and you would tell your side and the other party would tell their side. You mean, it comes straight from you. So by using a legal, like by using a representative now, you kind of have that in between. So first party, you know,

that person, that's why they have to follow like it's called Rules of Professional Conduct. Have you ever heard of that? Yeah. Yeah, that's what a lawyer follows, right? They have to follow those because they're representing somebody else. So I don't know, I got lost in that rabbit hole and maybe it was from my experiences or whatever, but I just found it so fast. And a lot of people don't really look into it. Yeah. My biggest fear now is I see what goes on Russia with their court system. And like I would never, to be in that position, imagine just going there and like someone plants a weed or whatever on you.

You get caught in their court system. Yeah. They get sentenced you to 20 years. Oh, yeah. And everyone's guilty. Yeah. And the appeal, like I got a kick out of the articles that say, oh, we're going to fight this, where to appeal this. They're not going to win.

If you can't even win an appeal in the American court, how are you going to win an appeal at Russian court? And who's that basketball player? Britney. Yeah, because what you have? Like a weed pen or something? Something like that. I mean, she was high noriety. So, you know, that help.

But there's people that go over there. I'm reading that do get jammed up over there over stuff where they're marked by the government as, you know, it's unconstitutionally held over there. No, foreign law. Like foreign jail. You ever have anybody on on foreign jail? No, we want to. Most of the people that do have foreign jail are banned from the United States. Because either they got extradited or something like that.

Right. and they want to do it over Zoom, but I don't do Zoom interviews, just to keep the integrity of it. There's nothing better than in a world full of Zoom meetings being with the person one-on-one. Totally. Sitting in a room, talking, not having any static or feedback,

or it's just you and the person, we're just in a regular room with two chairs, and, you know, there's no, like, film crew or anything. It's just us having a conversation. I think that's great. No, I agree. I agree. It's more authentic. So when you were in high school,

did you know you were going to be a football player? Yeah. yeah um yeah i was pretty good and and the size you know like six four i was like 275 pounds like i was pretty good at football i was getting recruited by my junior year i had like scholarship offers um by my senior i had like 30 or 40 30 40 yeah that's pretty normal though for like when you're on the level like like if penn state's going to offer you then like everyone else in the big 10's going to offer you so that's like not too uncommon you know i mean um but yeah no i i knew i was gonna going to play football.

What position? Offensive guard. Tackle in high school and then guard when I went to college in the NFL. Yeah, you kind of get a feeling. I didn't know I'd go to the NFL. I think I got a beat on that like in college. Like midway through college, I was like, yeah, I think I'm on the level. I'll probably go to the NFL.

Because, you know, you can just tell by your competition. If you're playing at the level, you know, you're probably going to go. So it's easier to get into a college for football than it is to get into the NFL, like at that age? It's not like basketball. you're not like jumping to the NFL. You know, you know how like in basketball, if you're awesome, like, or you used to be awesome in high school, you go right to the NBA.

NFL is like, you're pretty much going to go to college to get that time and grow and, you know, become stronger because the NFL is like just grown men. Whereas I think in your college, you're 18 to 22. By 22, you're probably on the level, maybe even by 20, but definitely not 18. Did anyone help you prepare mentally from that transition from high school to college ball?

Yeah. I mean, I think that is the cool thing. Like sports, you know, there is a lot of support, you know, and I had great trainers and I coaches and, you know, when you go to college, you have great strength coaches and you have the coaches there. And you're definitely not alone. You know what I mean? There's a lot of support.

And no, I was lucky. I got a lot of support. But I worked hard. You know, I worked out every day. You know, I trained every single day. I didn't care. I loved it. I really did.

I love the physicality of it. I love the brutality of it, you know, to an extent. like, you know, I'm definitely, you know, I wouldn't call myself now, but I'm like a violent person. You know what I mean? Like to a degree. You know, like, yeah. And you do it your whole life. Like I wouldn't now like with, you know, with regular people, absolutely not. You know what I mean? But it's like you do it so much. It's like definitely a part of you. You know, and I think that's the same like great martial artists or boxers or fighters or anybody. And you kind of see like, oh, no, I like it. I'm good at at it. Like anything. I think we like what we're good at too. Because I think at first I wasn't crazy about

football when I was really young. But I stuck with it and then you start to love it because you're good at it. You know, but something comes first. Yeah, I think about my friends that in high school were so, like, studious and took all the AP classes to get into a good top college and this and that. Does it, do you ever look back and think, you know, like you grinded so much just to get into that school to play football that you missed out on activities? Yeah. Yeah. I think, I mean, if I had to do it all over again, I might not have played football. You know what I mean? Like, I love my experience and, and, but if I had to, like, do it again and be like, oh, you could, you could go a different route.

Like, I might have gone a different route. Just because football was so, you know, it was so all income. It's just become, it's everything, you know, and it was everything for me until I was like 30. You know, I don't think I stopped until I was like 29. And then for like a whole year, you're like, oh, I can still, I still got more, you know. And it's kind of like a, so if I look back, like, yeah, I would, I didn't really believe in school. Like, I never really like school or anything like that. And I don't think I was like above average intel.

where I would be like an AP student, but I definitely would have liked to explore, you know, other things, you know what I mean? Because I think football was just such a driving factor that afterwards, you're like, oh, man, like, there's like so much more to life, you know, which is cool. So. Yeah, I wonder if like those individuals, the studious individuals ever look back now and it's like, was it worth it to give up all of that, to grind that hard, you know, at that young age just to get to get to that. And if it really played a difference, because look at now, you're not playing football. Yeah. That was just a short period of your life and you have so much life outside of that.

That's the crazy thing about it. And I doubt it. Or maybe I don't know with the like you say like studious individuals. I hope they wouldn't regret it. Like I don't have regrets. But I definitely look at my life like what you give so much at a young age to only do that for like a young amount of time. Whereas you're like man, I wonder if I like became like a great salesman or if I went into like, you know, oh, I like business or I mean I'm in business now. But I don't know.

I can definitely see both sides. And I think it is cool to invest in something that might be like a life's work, you know, for your career. But, I mean, who knows if those even, how many people are career people anymore. Yeah, I mean, I guess you also don't know where it's going to go. I mean, like you look at Tom Brady, for example, that went all the way where he dedicated everything and he was able to have that. Right. But there's so many people that don't have that. Rare, though.

Yeah. Super rare. I mean, most people, I mean, NFL average three years and you're done, you know. And that's kind of the ride. That's kind of, the thing I think is cool is it's like I was like a kid from a small town. So it took me out of that and I got to see like the world. You know what I mean? I got to like meet a lot of different kinds of people and like live in a lot of different areas and experience a lot of different things.

You know, which I think like again back to square one. It's like, okay, that made me who I am. Cool. Did you ever connect with Aaron Hernandez at all? I have a picture next to him for our Allstate team. Are you guys the same age? He was a year younger than me and he was like two people down. But I never connected with him.

I just remember we went to go take the picture for the Allstate team and he was. there. And I knew who he was because he was so dynamic even in high school. He was just such an awesome player. And I was like, okay, that's Aaron Hernandez. And then kind of just moved on. I feel, I felt bad for him. I mean, I know he's not like a perfect person. But that dude, I mean, it's proven he has CTE. So how much is that? You know what I mean? Like how much. And that's what's, that's to me what's sad about the game right now is it's like, you know, guys like people, it's normalized to where you know about it, but not normalized to where you're like, dude, it affects your behavior like a lot. You know what I mean? So those guys, like the way they act after, you know,

that's much deeper than them just being like bad people or whatever. Like they could literally be brain damage, you know? And, um, that's like a hard one. That's, that's, that's why I retired when I was 27. Because this shit just started coming out. I was with the Denver Broncos. And like, some was I can't remember, you know, now it seems like it's like, you know, this was 10 years ago. Now it seems like, oh, everybody knows that. You know what I mean? But back then it was so normalized and minimalized that you really did think in the way it was talking about.

I was like, yeah, you just got like your bell rung a little. Yeah, whatever. Move on. You'll heal. You'll be fine. When I started finding out there was like a degenerative brain disease associated with playing the game that I had like a whole like. And I already had like a bunch of crazy shit going on in my life.

My life was kind of already a shit storm. When I found out about that on top of it, I was like, oh, fuck, I'm done. And I just quit out of nowhere, man. It was like middle of the season. like a week later I was just like see ya and like that was it and I left and that was the team that went to the super bowl that was the Peyton team I got traded from Seattle to Denver and they played each other in the Super Bowl that year and I was just like man fucking I'm done like so no matter what I was destined to go to the Super Bowl but I really didn't care like it really affected me deeply

and I had other things in my life that like you know you're supposed to be living the life like this is supposed to be great and I wasn't happy I wasn't you know and I even said that too I really wasn't happy with my life, my situation, the people I was associated with, which is, I think that's where I have compassion for people who are, you know, to their degree. I mean, I don't consider myself famous. I just was known in my world and in my places I walked, you know, and went. People knew who I was. You know, if you were a football fan, you might have known who I was. But I have compassion for people who have ultimate success and ultimate fame.

And they get all fucked up because, dude, it's a mind fuck to like. have everything and then still not feel fulfilled or content. You know, and people write books for days about that, about what it takes to be content or fulfilled. And so I definitely feel for those people because I've definitely been in that experience, you know? Yeah, and that's something I think about now. I'm like, this is where I'm at now. And I'm getting a taste of just like being known. Like, I'll go to a public spot and people know me and that's cool. But I think like, okay, what if this is like 10 times as much? And I feel like it's good to be a part of the grind in the process because I'm fine with like where like what I'm like if I blew up tomorrow I'd still be in the same studio yeah like

I'd still be in the same apartment that's I don't think that aspect would change yeah because I like this like this is just like a cool little place that you never would expect on top of a telly you know that that that that's just in this random town you know and it's cool and it's cozy and it's like my creative space yeah and we go into like Patrick and I go into like big studios and stuff like that all the time and it's like I don't know do you need that you know when when you get to that. So it's cool to be at the bottom and then and think about that now when you get to the top. Yeah. And it's also interesting to see all these like people that came, went to the NFL from Connecticut. Like Aaron Hernandez was just a town over from you, right? Yeah. He was, uh, I think he was Bristol.

She's like 30 minutes away. Yeah. Yeah. And there was someone in Danbury. I don't know if you're familiar, Austin Colitro. He was a couple years older than me. Yeah. He played, um, for I think the Seahawks, a couple others. He just retired. That name sounds familiar. There's been a few though. There's been a a few guys that have gone out of Connecticut more than when I was growing up. And yeah, man, that's cool, though. That's like, that's where you want to be like where you're coming into your own and you don't want to change a lot of things. And then it's also, I think, the people that you have around you too. You know, keep good people around you and like bring them along and, you know, you'll kind of, it could be really good. Yeah, because I see the people that blow up instantly and then they go

get the mansion, like a lot of these celebrity influencers. Yeah. And what they, like, people idolize that because they post that on Instagram. and whatnot. And but is that, are they happy? And you have all of that. And it just, it seems like a lot. I don't know. Like, I'm fun with a car.

I'll get a car, you know, when that day comes. But I know, I know. I really think it, I think it's the relationships. I think that if I had to take my best shot at again, I would say it's like, keep people around you who like love you and care about you and you love them and care about them and like, don't let them go. You know what I mean? That's, that's where I think it is.

And I was always pulled west. Like I was out Connecticut. And then I went to Wisconsin. and then I was drafted to the Seahawks and it's like you just feel like you're just like going, you know? So maybe that's it. But yeah, it's, Connecticut's definitely had some more players lately, which is good, which is good.

When did you know you were going to the NFL? Probably my junior year. I was like all Big Ten and I was just like playing really. I had started like since I was a freshman, played a lot of football. I almost left after my junior year, but I decided to stay because I wouldn't have been like, the highest draft pick that I could have been.

But yeah, right around my junior year where I was like, no, I can play this game. I know I'm good. I know. You do know. It's not like a secret. It's not like for the people who it's like they don't know, then they're not on the level. What college were you at? University of Wisconsin.

Oh, that's kind of random, right? Yeah. You know, there's a lot of guys from Connecticut that went to the University of Wisconsin. They kind of have a connection here. Really? And yeah, and I loved it. Like the big party school, you know, and I'm a part. I was, you know.

I was a big party. Yeah, man. I was like definitely, you know, I definitely had fun too. And that's it. That's another thing I think that can get you, right? It's like too much fun too. You know, not keeping things tight and like going out. And you open yourself up to a lot of things when you do that, you know.

But yeah, Wisconsin's like big party school, like nice. Like people were cool. It was like beautiful. Like Madison, which is the capital is where the university is. It's on like an isthmus, which is like a landmass between two lakes. I didn't know what the hell that was until I went. there. And yeah, it was cool. It was awesome. Best five years of my life. Is that like the Badgers or Yeah, the Badgers? Okay. I've heard of that. Yeah. So it is a well-known school kind of. We were,

we were really good when I was there. They're like kind of hurting now because Michigan and Ohio State are so good. It's a big town conference school. So, but yeah, no, college was great. Wisconsin's great. Great people. Midwest is great. I love where I'm from. I've been lucky to live kind of, I used to train in the South, like in Florida, played in the Midwest, played on the West Coast. I guess you could consider like Denver like the West and then lived on the East Coast. So I have a good taste of the country and it's all cool.

The country's amazing. The country's absolutely amazing. I mean, we have so much in this country and there's so much land, you know. So that was kind of cool about the experience. Do you think if you had gotten into trouble in college, it would have turned out differently? I got into trouble in college too.

I was kind of like, you know, like little shit. Like I got drunk once and kicked over. Like everyone wore like road mopeds. At the college? Oh, yeah. Everyone had mopeds. They had like mopet parking and shit. Wait, you were out of moped?

Oh, yeah. You're a little big for a moped? No, the whole team, there'd be like 300 guys. Sometimes we could put a guy in back of us. It'd be like 600 pounds a guy on a moped. Yeah, no, I swear. And there was like a row of them and I kicked them all over. They went over like dominoes.

Yeah, I got in trouble for that. I was always like falling, you know, because I was like drinking. So I like bust my head up a bunch of times, stitches. But the team like hates that because they got to like stitch you up and then you're out and stuff like that. nothing too bad. But I think I needed to like really learn like my lesson. Like my lesson was pretty like national news. Like when I got arrested in Chicago,

it was like because I had just left football and kind of made national news for that. And then like, and that was in November. And then in March on St. Patrick's Day, I got arrested in Chicago with like a ton of drugs. You know? So that was like big, like ESPN picked up the story. Like NFL didn't really like me at that point because I was like, I'm quitting because I don't like this shit and also, you know, CTE, right?

I was like, hey, that's pretty serious, right? Maybe we should think about this for a second. And so they definitely wanted to pick up that story to kind of like, okay, smear you a little. And people have no clue how much leverage the NFL has in the media. Like the sports media, like they're dying to help the NFL because they don't get those contracts. They're not going to make any money, you know? So there's a lot of times where the NFL can easily say like, hey, pick this story up. it was national news like before I even got out of jail like I remember like getting out

phone you know 200 calls kind of stuff call my girlfriend at the time tried to act like nothing like you know you think you're like you're doing the I'm a normal person thing you know what I mean like oh yeah hey got arrested but whatever you know what I'm going to fly back home and and she was like what like what's going on and I'm like nothing and we had like a rocky relationship so like at this moment we were probably like fighting or some shit you know what I mean she's like what's going on I'm like I don't know nothing what do you mean she's like what do you mean she's like it's on every check like yeah it's in the news I've seen it like 20 times a million people called me what happened and then I was like

oh shit and I was like okay it's probably and then yeah all over the place and this was right after you left the Seahawks yeah after I left the Broncos so this is I left the Broncos in November and this happened in like March Broncos was the last team you played for yeah okay I was trying to spin it like I was trying to, so I used to do a lot of radio. And, um, like I did the podcast thing, like everything. And so my solution was like, okay, I have this one career. What am I going to do next? And I was so like go, go, go all the time. That was like, oh, I'll just, I'll just do radio. I'll go into that. So I did like, like, I hit some like radio like shows. I got like offered like little positions,

like locally and stuff like that. Someone wanted like someone wanted to do a book. I think Ryan Holiday. It was like 10 years ago, so he wasn't like on the left. Like he was still. He did obstacles the way. But we had met about doing a book because it was like kind of like, it was kind of looked at like momentous. Like how could you quit the NFL? You know what I mean? Like how could you walk?

It was like they were making one of those stories about like, hey, happiness is like more than just, you know, all the stuff. And so I was already kind of like very publicized at that time. So when I got arrested, the publicity like matched it. You know? So like, yeah, I got out of jail and it was like all over the place. And you had played for three teams, right? No, two at that point. I played for the Seahawks and the Broncos.

Okay. So later in my career, I went back to the NFL because I know what the fuck. After the arrest? Yeah. All right. So let's talk about the arrest. What happens at the... All right.

So while I quit, it was like I was trying to... I had so much going on. But one of my biggest concerns just because it's just who I am is like, I need something to do. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not. a guy that can be like, let me take a vacation, let me take time off. Like, I need the next thing to give, you know, give everything to, you know? So to me, that was going to be like radio and I was going to go more like the media route. You know what I mean? I was going to do like some kind of

entertainment. Um, so I was kind of like doing a lot of that, but not really knowing what I was doing. And at the same time, I felt like I had like a little bit of like people like like stepped away from because I quit. I felt like betrayed. You know what I mean? I felt like, almost like abandoned. You know what I mean? Like where you're like, oh man, I thought you were my friend, but you're not because it was really just about the other thing. And then especially like in my own personal relationships.

You know what I mean? Like tough things with my girlfriend, like things like like all that stuff. It felt really alone and definitely started using way more. You know what I mean? Like I used to just smoke pot and drink a little when I was in the NFL. But then I started like kind of amping it up and like drinking more, smoking more,

going out like and doing everything at the same time. I think looking back, I was just scared. you know what I mean I didn't know who I was going to be next but I wanted to be somebody I didn't want to not be something or somebody or have something to do you know so at this time around like the new year my girlfriend just like kicked me out of my house you know what I mean like which is crazy um but you have to go what are you going to do you know what I mean like if a fight gets to a certain point like they're going to win you can't like you know what I mean you have to for like everyone for everything to be better so I'm like okay So I left and then I just hit like a circuit and I was probably in like five, six cities and like every weekend. I was in like a different city. You know, I went to like Miami. I went to L.A.

I went to New York. I went to Chicago. The last one was I went to Chicago for St. Patrick's Day because that was like a big thing in Wisconsin. Like a lot of people would go to St. Patrick's Day in Chicago. So all my old buddies were there from college and I was like, oh, I want to see him. But I brought like a ton of cocaine and ecstasy and freaking LSD. and marijuana and I was drinking.

So I was like on all of this stuff, you know, and just going nuts. And I was like, when you're that big and you kind of like know how to do drugs, you can do it. You know what I mean without like killing yourself? But I mean like I was going like the whole day. So at the end of the night, even my friends were all like like they were, I'll never forget. We're at this bar called Will's Northwoods in. And like that's where everybody went. Like all like five of my closest friends from college were like in a circle.

and like you have to go get like help and I'm like I think you're right but that's not happening tonight like I'm not doing that tonight so let's just have fun might as well go out with a bang yeah yeah and they were like and they were kind of just like all right whatever and I remember I went I saw another old buddy and I went to this club called the underground sketchy place like in a sketchy part of Chicago but there was like I think like the like some guys from the clippers were there and then some guys from the dolphins were there, and I knew a couple of the guys from dolphins. And from my recollection, okay,

I had like a sunglass case full of everything, right? And I was just like, hey, do you want something? You want whatever? But a bouncer saw it, and I think he thought that I was trying to, like, deal or whatever, you know? And he, like, comes in. And I was, like, standing on a couch dancing. He's like, get down from there, bubble.

And I'm like, whatever, no. And he, like, kind of, like, grabs me by the arm and starts, like, walking me somewhere. and I like pull off to like I'm like I'm gonna just get out of here and I go down this like I open this door and it was like it was like going into the matrix because the corridor was like bright white like lights like these and and like white like I felt like that scene like where you open the door now you're in like a bright lit area like this was an underground club all dark neon lights music to this and this guy's like right in front of me and he's like a big dude he's like six three or something like you know and he's got like two of his other guys and there and this is is kind of where I'm like starting to haze out. And he's like yelling at me. Like he's all like mad or something. And next thing you know, I come to on the other side of the hallway and I'm talking to the manager and I'm like spitting out blood. You know, my, my lip is like all busted up. And I remember saying the manager. I'm like, okay, look, we're even. Because, you know, he got me. Like,

I'm going to go now. You know, and they're like, no, you're not going anywhere. Like they called the cops. Then like, felt like almost right after I said that the cops like busts in the door and they had their like tasers like you know what I mean like tasers on me and shit and I got this like weird fear of being tasered like I don't want to be tasered like it's crazy and it's been a threat like a couple times for me and I just go right with it I don't know why I just don't want to ever be tasered it's like a thing I got I feel like even guns have less power over me but still and I was like I'm like you know whatever you got me and they arrest me and then next you know I'm like in the paddy wagon you know because I'm like a big guy that you know I'm like a big guy that

They don't put me in a regular. I feel like two out of maybe the four or five times I've been arrested, I'm always in a paddy wagon. They always put me in the van because I can't fit. You know what I mean? Did they have to use like the two pairs of handcuffs? They use the two pairs of handcuffs, which I appreciate because it's like they could squeeze me into one, but it would be like really painful.

And yeah, next thing you know, you're like going to jail. And, you know, at this point, I'm still like tripping out on acid. Okay. So I'm in jail and it's like two. three in the morning. And I'm in like a holding cell with another guy. And he's like saying, I mean, he's all like he's, you know, he's all like upset. And I'm just like, it is what it is, man. Like, they got us. Like, I kept kind of like doing that. Like they got us. Like it is. And, and then that whole time was just wacko, man, because it was like Chicago County Jail. Like it was

like some guys killed people in here. Some guys are, you know, like there's felonies every like everything. And I remember one kid that I was talking to, like, as I was in line to get arraigned, and he's like, oh yeah, you got exes on you. That's a felony. And I was like, oh, fuck, that's really bad, huh? Like, I had no clue really what I was heading towards.

But no one really bothered me. You know what I mean? I mean, I fell asleep. I took my shirt off to, like, put it around my head, and I fell asleep on the floor face down for like four hours, five hours, because I was in there so long, you know? And then eventually they took us to get arraigned, you know, you're in line. And I do remember

at one point one of the guards was like everything got like really silent because they were going in the door to the courtrooms right there and you're just waiting in line with you know you're in there. And the guard was like, he's like, you hear that? He's like, that guy killed somebody. Like, got super silent.

Like it got serious in the court. I was like, okay. I came in. Oh, and then I At Hyundai of Glendale, Lisa New, 2026 Hyundai Tucson SC Frontwheel Drive for 26, a month plus tax for 36 months with owner's assurance in America's best warranty 10 year 100,000 miles

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I was talking all kinds of crazy shit to these dudes though. Because I'm tripping, so I'm talking about like, and this was when I was like really like new agey. So I'm talking about like, you know, you know, collective consciousness and enlightenment, just garbage. You know what I mean? Like, and they're probably like this dude's whacked out, whatever.

I go in to get a rain. I stand before the judge. It was like the judge already knew. He's like, were you that football player for the Broncos? And I was like, Jesus. Like, how do you? That's a weird thing about football. It carries a, people love football.

They really do. They just love it. And it always carried some kind of weight. whereas like I wasn't famous but football is famous so then I was like known because of the football thing and he knew exactly who I was and knew I got arrested like before even arranged me and then he kind of rained me right there and then that was it and then you waited forever like a little longer ate some garbage food and they just like let me out I had to go get my phone like over at the other you know some other facility some crazy shit and uh and then that was that and then

that was when I like lawyered up always got to find a lawyer obviously from that state you know because they can't practice anywhere else. And I did. And then he kind of like took care of it. That's what got me into, I went to rehab. I went to Malibu Passages. We're like, Lindsayville. You went to Malibu Passages?

Dude, that's what got me in there. How much was that? 60,000 for a month or? Yeah. Insurance covers that or no? The NFL covered it. What? Yeah.

Even though you were retired? Yeah. Why did the NFL cover it? I don't know. It was like some kind of thing like where, It was for, like, my health. And I, and I was vested. So, like, I did have, like, health benefits and certain perks and stuff.

For life? Or how does that work? Seven years. And then you get, like, other things for life. Like, like, like, but I was vested with, like, strong medical for, like, seven years. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

And then, like, you get, like, a, like, it's not bad. It's really not terrible. You went to Malibu Pass. Dude, it was great. It's like a resort. I wish I can't, you can't, you know, I'm not going to say who I was in there with, but I was in there with, like, other people that were, like, you would know. and they were pretty cool.

And it was nice, man. It was like Lionel Richie's like old house like in Malibu. It's like on the cascading mountains. It's beautiful. Yeah. Did you know you had a problem? No. Yes and no.

Or do you think you had a problem now? Oh yeah. No, I definitely had a problem. And I'm definitely like I hate saying I'm an addict even though I am. I just don't like to think of myself like that. I don't think it's healthy. But I have an addictive personality and I have an addictive problem. Do you know what I mean like when I do it or when I indulge it?

it will become, it will become a problem. Do you know what I mean? So, but I don't believe it's like, like, like, even from like football, like, right? You wouldn't say to yourself like, oh, I'm not a good football player. You know what I mean? So I don't want to say to myself like, oh, you're an addict because I don't know if that helps with recovery as opposed to saying like when you use, you're an addict. But when you're done, you're clean and you're not.

I kind of like that more. It's called like, it's called like, what is it called? It's some kind of recovery thing. My dad actually taught me because. my dad gave up drinking when I was like six years old and never drank again. And that's the approach he took. It's called positive, uh, positive approach or something like that where basically the idea is as soon as the drugs are out of your system, you're not an addict. But if you're using, you're an addict. You know what I mean? And that's kind of the way they look at it. And kind of

really about being positive, but also putting it behind yourself. It's an interesting dynamic because I do believe like in terms of like AA, like you have to be honest with yourself and you have to come to that, that conclusion. You know what I mean? But back. then it was so meshed in with like a lifestyle like a work hard play hard kind of thing that it was very easy to like what like brush away brush off where you're like no I work very hard I play very hard you know I live an intense lifestyle and I party and like with like with the same kind of passion or intensity or whatever blowing off steam um and that is why I agree though with the AA thing because you you do have to like look at it and be honest about it.

you have to have that moment. You know what I mean? Yeah. So. Do you think going to such a fancy rehab made a difference or could you have gone? Because, you know, the average person can't afford that. Yeah. So would you encourage someone that can't afford that to go to a regular one?

Or what do you? I did it not out of like, I didn't do it out of like any place of real honesty. I did say I was done drinking and done with all that stuff, right? And I have gone back and forth and stuff like that. And like there's times where I feel like, you know, I'm good about it and there's times where I feel like, I'm not good. You know what I mean? I try now not to drink.

Marijuana is tough for me just because I smoke marijuana like my entire life. You know what I mean? Since I was like 16. And with football, it's great with the pain and everything like that. And to a degree, I feel like sometimes I deal with, I'm better with it. You know what I mean? But that's not really what's dangerous. I think for me, drinking can be dangerous and I try not to drink like in public or around

people. You know what I mean? If I'm going to drink. Like, I find like I'll drink with a friend. And I try to keep it really. really low key and that's where I go. Passages was just about me proving to the judge that I

was sorry for what I did. It wasn't about me being like, oh, I'm gonna change. You know what I mean? It was more like my lawyer was like, you should go to rehab, it looks good because I'm gonna go tell the judge that that's what you're doing.

So then in going to rehab, I went to passages because it was nice. And I didn't want to go to like, have you ever heard of like Shick Shaddle? No. Bro. Shick Shatel's like the craziest shit ever.

or Shaddle Shick. Where is that? Dude, these guys, I think it was an old place in Connecticut. They claim that they could cure you from anything, like alcoholism, like, like no one else could. And what they do is you go in and they give you a shot of your favorite alcohol. But with that, there's something that they give you that makes you violently ill. And they soak your sheets. in that alcohol that you like.

So you're going to bed in that soaked alcohol while you're violently ill. And the association is so strong that they claim you'll never drink again. So it wasn't that. Do you think it works? Yeah, I do.

I don't want to do it. So that's like shock therapy kind of in a way. Shadl-Shick. Something like that, I think is what it's called. Is it still active? It might be. I don't know. It's worth checking out, but I'm pretty sure that's the name.

And I'll never forget hearing about that. But no, no, I just did passages because I was like, okay, I got to go away. I want to go somewhere nice. And I think that's what it is for most people. I do think if you want to really, you could maybe get help there, but I mean, it was very cushy. And there was like, like, I didn't want to go to, like, group meetings. And they didn't, I didn't go. Did I get paid all this, buddy.

I just didn't want to hear it. I didn't want to, like, deal with it. I went to individual therapists. And I was okay with that. And then I was like, nah, I don't care, you know. And then I did. I took a long break. And then I kind of went back.

And then, you know, it's always been a difficulty for me. It's probably still a difficulty. But I feel like I have it like pretty much under control. But being a completely clean and sober person, I don't know, man. You know what I mean? And then you think about like for me, a motherfucker is just like, how's my brain doing? You know what I mean? And I think about, oh, is pot good for me?

Because maybe it helps with if you have potential brain damage, you know? So it's not something like, it's something I try to be very honest with myself about, but at the same time, I'm not a perfect person. That's probably the best thing. No one is. Yeah. No, and that's probably the best thing I've done. And I admire people. Like, my dad is like an unbelievable role model to me for the way that he just like, bam, done.

You know what I mean? Like, done. I'm never going to do it again. I think that's, that's impressive. I think it's also weighing like the pros and cons, like as you get older too. Like, okay, maybe it's not the best idea to go to the bar and drink and where trouble could happen or anything. it happen, but you stay at home at your apartment, you have a fun time, and you get the same feeling, you're saving money, too, you have the same effect, and you're not hurting anyone.

And, you know, there's different. It's kind of a steam. For me, it's always a blow off steam thing, you know, and I agree. I think that's, you know, and that's how I tried to. And I still try to be like, I'm not going to do it anymore. I'm not going to do it. But every now and then, I'm like, I'm going to have a couple beers. Like, I want to, you know.

And it's a blow off steam thing because I really can't stop being, like, who I am. You know what I mean? I can't stop being a person that's like, I'm still like incredibly driven. I still want like everything. I want to do everything. You know what I mean? I want to like live that like, I want to live the life. I like it.

You know, and maybe that's from football. You become an adrenaline junkie. And when you start to lose that, that's when you need to check yourself. Absolutely. I think that's what, you know, people lose it when they go down into bad habits. Yeah. So I think that's something to look out for. It feel, for me, I feel like having a thing.

has always kept me, like, going, driven in line. You know what I mean? But definitely like an adrenaline junkie, definitely all that stuff. You know, used to gamble all the time. Love gamble. Yeah, I stop that. I stopped that. That's good.

Oh, yeah. I could relate. Are you a gambler? I was. I don't anymore. What'd you do? Electronic backer at at the casino at Yonkers. I swear to God, I looked at you and in my mind, I heard backerat.

Yeah, yeah, that was why I got so lucky. I would turn 500 and 30 grand. I've seen guys, I've seen Chinese kids. at the casino in freaking Mohegan. Mohegan. Foxwoods. Mohegan. With 50, 70,000 in front of them playing Baccarat. And it's crazy, dude. It's insane.

And a lot of it's luck. I mean, you can look at the patterns all day long, but my trick and my skill was just riding the patterns. And whether that's luck or whatever, like, that was just what I would do. If it was going all blue, I'd keep going while everyone's betting red. Yeah. And then you lose one, and that's when you leave. Right. But. That's an all or nothing game, too. You have to be all.

And that's what always differs you from everyone else. You've got to be willing to keep doubling down. Yeah. And if you don't have the balls to do that, it's not going to work for you. Yes, absolutely. That's how I played it. That's freaking great. It was fun.

But I mean, like you were saying, I have an addictive personality too, which is why I don't do drugs. I mean, I do weed. Yeah. I love edibles. Yeah. They help me sleep, rock the Tyson 2.0. Right?

Weed's weird, man. I can't make up my mind on it. I know I'm better when I'm not smoking weed, like in business. and with people, but sometimes I get so fucking annoyed and frustrated that I again, like blow off a little steam. And I do like it for that. You know what I mean? I used to be so against it because I figured it's a drug,

you know, and I'm very anti-drug. Right. But I can't fun. Like I can never do an interview high. I couldn't function. I couldn't do an edible. I'd be falling asleep on you. No, absolutely.

But at night, you know, if I'm at home, I'll pop an edible. It's, you know, and it helps you sleep. Right. I've been doing this thing too where you set at, like you turn off the heat or you do like 65. degrees. Okay. That helps too where like you keep it cold. Like your your place? Yeah, your apartment. You keep it cold. That's what they said. When you do an edible? No, no, no, no, no, when you sleep, just in

general. Oh, in general. Yeah, no, no, no. Okay. Just when you sleep, like, they say that helps. Really? The colder it is, the easier you sleep. Oh, I didn't know that. Apparently, I was reading it. Are you finding it works? Yeah, it helps. And even like this place, I turned off the heat because it would get hot in this room. Yeah. And I feel like my mind flows better. Because when, with the heat, it kind of makes you tired and right um like when you're not talking it can like it lulls you down but like I'm more upbeat when it's cooler in here little lethargic when it's warm yeah I could see that something like that yeah it could just be a theory you'd ever know you know if it works man believing in it is half of the battle yeah I quit energy drinks I've done with the Celsius I used to do one a day now I

just do coffee Celsius is tasty though so good I like Celsius I do too I was doing one a day I'm almost two weeks clean from Celsius good on you because they're hiding stuff there. That's what I think, right? And I'd always feel like kind of like hung over like a crash midday whereas coffee, you know, you could drink a couple cups. It'll be okay. Yeah, black coffee are good all day. Especially good black coffee. But like, no, the Celsius stuff like, yeah, man, not good. Because they hide it with the natural flavors. And I thought I saw, if you look at the can, it says sucralosis in there, which they don't have to count as sugar, but it's sugar. It is sugar. Yeah. Yeah. But that stuff, because it's too good. Yeah. So I'm just, I'm backed off of those.

At least you weren't on like Monster or any of that shit. No, I was never a Monster kid. Those things, I used to be a Red Bull kid though. Yeah. Those things were the worst. Even the sugar-free ones are pretty bad for you. Monster scares me because like the Christians around this, you know, I'm a Christian. But like the Christian, like the Christian found like the or, you know, that organization of like Christians like when they all get together like with the church stuff.

And like they're like convinced that monster is like demon stuff. You know what I mean? Like they're like demons are making this and it's putting a spell on you and stuff like that. And you're like, okay. And sometimes I listen to them because sometimes the Christians are right. So it's like, I'm like, hey man. So yeah, when I think a monster, I'm always like, that's some weirdo stuff, you know. So that feeling that you used to get from drugs and alcohol, what have you turned and channeled that feeling into?

Because everyone, you know, sometimes we substitute the feeling when we get clean or go to a different stage in life. Everyone kind of channels it into something new. Yeah. Honestly, the excitement of my business, you know. And so I have a coffee. shop and we do like smoothies and we do like really good coffee and juice and like pretty healthy geared food um which i don't clearly i don't eat and uh promote the name of that we got a lot of kinniket listeners moon shots is what it's called and um i like apply my perfection to it and i apply like

my drive to it and i want to be bigger than what we even are now and i see the potential and like it really excites me you know i'd say that's where i channeled everything and and i think when I think back, you know, always on the edge with stuff, always a little bit like close. But when I lost football, I really went overboard with addiction and things like that. So my medicine really is like my work and focusing on that. And then where I can have a little fun or try to relax. And I'm still, honestly, I still look for stuff that, hey, is this a healthy outlet? Or can I find a healthy habit? You know what I mean? Like, is shooting a good thing? You know what I mean? Or like, I don't want to do this, but I always like people who fly fish. You know, I'm like, man, that seems.

like a cool thing to do, you know, as opposed to like, oh, I work and then to blow off steam, I'll smoke a little pot or I'll do this, you know. So it's definitely like a kind of like a, you know, it's in progress. So we see a lot in the news where like someone will get arrested that's active in the NFL and, you know, sometimes like the NFL won't even make a statement about it or they kind of let things play out in court, you know, which is even better than the court system itself, you know, they're actually innocent until proven guilty. In some cases, others you see people get totally blacklisted, depending on what the situation was. What was your experience having gone through arrest publicly and then you went back to the NFL?

Yeah, they, you know, they're kind of like all about business, 100%. So whatever a business would do is usually what the NFL is going to do, you know? And I think they masquerade as like, oh, the old boys club or, hey, it's just boys having fun or it's football, but it's really, I think they get a good beat on public perception, and they kind of go that route. You know what I mean? Like, they're going to, like, so if the public's outraged about, like, you know, whatever this player did, they're going to come down and do some stuff to them, you know?

If the public is like, whatever, they're going to be like, whatever, because at the end of the day, that guy's a part of their show, and he's an entertainer. The more I look at the NFL, and they always tell you that, like, when I play, they're, like, it's a business, this is business, this is business. the more you look at it as a business, the more you really will understand it. So for me, I just went back. I was shocked that they even took me back

because all the shit I said about the NFL. It was crazy. It was like almost one of those like little, I do these like weirdo reality experiments where you're like, hey, can I turn reality on itself and will it actually work? And, you know, I think that's part of my like, like a little curiosity and boredom and like an adrenaline kind of like, you know, junkie thing where I'm like, hey, maybe I'll just go back.

I'm not doing anything anyways. If I have brain damage, it's already done. And I want some more money, so whatever. You know what I mean? I'm going to go do that, right? And I trained with, do you know Jay Glazer is? I trained with Jay Glazer. Jay Glazer's like a Fox analyst, but he's also a trainer.

And he's really good friends with Roger Goodell, the commissioner of the league. And so I went back and trained with Jay Glazer. And Jay Glazer has a lot of influence and was kind of like, hey, no, he's clean. He's working really hard. He wants to play football again, played it his whole life, you know, wants to play. play a little more, went through a bad time, and it was fine. And I signed with the Eagles. And the only problem was it was just I had been out of the game for too long. Like, I was just not in the shape I was. And I was older. And I even noticed, like, when I was playing with the Eagles,

I was like, damn, like, I'm like slow. I'm not strong. Not to where I was like awful, awful, but I mean, I was like not playing on the level at all. And then so then they cut me, like with the last cuts and then I was done. So is there like a new like audition practice process when you're already in the NFL leave and then want to go back or is it just like here you go you're in yeah i i mean i was training with glazer for a couple months my agent kind of put out feelers and i had a couple teams interested and i just they they offered me the the eagles offered and i signed with them and that was kind of they knew i could play they had film on me it wasn't like i think i might have went and done a workout with the eagles but i don't even excuse me that coke man it gets you

sorry you're good um i don't even think i did that i think it was just like so you didn't even make it to the season. No, no, I got cut in the preseason. I was not playing on level. I was not there. So, which I don't even blame them. I kind of knew. Like, when I left, they were like, because they do the thing where it's like the last cut, so they're like, okay, you guys got the weekend off and we'll call you. And, you know, Monday regular practice starts, right? So I just flew back to Seattle. I just went home, you know? And they like called me and they were like, we've been trying to get a hold of you. Where are you? And I was like, I went back to Yeah, and they're like, we told you to be around your phone.

And I'm like, okay, well, did I make the team? They're like, no. I'm like, so who the fuck cares? Like, all right, bye. And that was it, you know, so. Well, at least you can, you can't look back and say you didn't try. Like, I feel like that's good closure to say you got back into it. You know, I think it was just, again, it was just a thing where you just don't know what to do with yourself at that age, having played football for so long.

And I was like, well, maybe I should just go back. And I'm, I just kind of minimalize the, okay, the risk and everything like that. And I was just like, you know what? going to, I just want to play. Because part of you still love, like, it's weird. Football for me is a love hate. It's a love hate relationship. I love the game.

I played the game. I gave everything to the game. And then I hated it because I'm like, oh, shit, this could kill me. You know what I mean? So that's like that weird. Or you also feel like you were lied to. You also feel like you guys were dishonest. You've known about this for a long time.

Couldn't make people aware of it. You did not. You know, you did the business thing. And so there's kind of that weird, you know, animosity a little bit. How are you feeling when you got that phone call? nothing really didn't care because honestly I knew I've always known like when I was on the level or not on level and I knew I was like dude there's no way it was me and Tim Tebow and I'm like me and Tim Tebow and he was on the team too but he and in my mind I go me and Tim Tebow are definitely getting cut from this team I know it for a fact because he's playing like garbage and I'm playing like garbage and I think I was his center for a little while too and it was just not good you know so it's like not a surprise I expected it and he was kind of He was cut too? Was that the end of his career right there? Yeah, and well, remember, did he go back to Jacksonville for like a minute trying to play tight end with

Myers? He switched positions, right? Yeah, so that was like the end of his quarterback career. And then I think a few years later, he tried to go back with Urban Meyer to the Jacksonville Jaguars. Now he plays baseball or something, or he switched sports? I don't know. Didn't you have like one big blowout year, which is how he got like super famous? With the Broncos.

That was with the Broncos. Yeah, I was there the year after. and they like hated Tim Tebow over there because he just is such a different style player and does things different and you know he's he's his whole he's Tim Tebow it's like a whole thing with him and

yeah he had like a he had like a really good run with the Broncos what's your opinion on the whole Taylor Swift then oh my God I mean you have so many listeners man I feel like I feel like I would get killed if I told you my real opinion about the Taylor Swift thing like I don't even know oh

yeah I don't know man that's weird to me. I think it's like the NFL is getting deeper and deeper into like what they do in Hollywood. There was a writer's strike. You know what I mean? Like also if you really think about what the NFL provides is it's like when you do a show or a movie or a concert as a Hollywood person, you're only seen like once a year. You know what I mean? NFL you're on TV every week.

And she's up in the box on TV like every week. I feel like it was like they arranged a dating thing between these. two people because I kind of feel like Travis Kelsey is definitely like if if there was a contract to sign and there was some blood to put on the contract and to sign it and to like you know and someone else was there I think he would do that I don't know so it's like you know that whole world you know like you probably interview these people like there's there's a world like they do things they agree to things and then they go by another they march to a different drum so I feel like Travis Kelsey did that and I feel like Taylor Swift was like this this

great match to where both got more famous, the NFL got more famous, the NFL grew its fan base, and, you know, Taylor Swift is, you know, oh, just won the Grammy for Best Album, oh, just won the Super Bowl. It's like, it's playing too perfectly. Well, there was no way to predict he was going to win the Super Bowl, but everything else. Not really because they just, I thought they just had a guy come out. I thought, like, you know, people think, look at, okay, gambling in the, NFL, right? The NFL makes 25 billion a year, right? 25 billion,

right? Gambling on the NFL is 80 billion a year. Okay? If gambling on the WWE was 80 billion a year and the WWE made 25 billion here, what would you like say about the WWE? What do you already say about the WWE? You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Like people is fucking fixed. Like... Yeah, I mean, I look at, I compare that relationship to the Pete Davidson and Kim Kardashian situation because like that was at a time where they needed some different press uh kim cardashian in them and then all of a sudden that comes around and chris jenner's like the ultimate fixer if there's any conspiracy yeah i mean i don't know they do look happy now though like taylor swift and maybe like it was staged and then it fell into

something yeah you know like you want it to work are you like i'm really trying to like i'm happy for them yeah i mean like i like some of her music you know and i like i admire his skill and and then what he's unable to do and that whole team and whatnot. But I just think like some of it is just like blown so much out of proportion. And then the hate, the hate's crazy. Like how people hate her for this and this and that. It's just like it's nuts.

I don't like her. I think there's something off. And I don't really like him. I think there's something off. And I feel like the NFL is going into this weird realm where it's like, guys, it's like I get that it's football and it's your arena and you make your own rules. Great. But now they're starting to like do like Hollywood.

stuff. You know what I mean? That I always find bizarre. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like, in entertainment, I guess it makes sense. It's just weird. From my perspective, it's weird to see. You know, it's weird to see. I expect Hollywood to do Hollywood things.

You know what I mean? I expect them to arrange relationships to stage things. I expect them to do all of that crazy stuff they do. You know, I don't I guess you've seen the NFL do it is kind of like weird for me. You know what I mean? It was like if you grew up and you realize Barney, Wasn't really that dinosaur.

He was like a fucking demon. You know what I mean? And he had the fangs and stuff. And you like look again, you're like, oh, shit. That's kind of like what I feel like with the NFL. The world's changing, you know, everything. Everything's changing. Yeah, no, it totally is.

It totally is. Maybe that's part of when you're like, you know, you remember like the old world. You know, like how the world was. Yeah. Yeah. How the old world was for sure. When you got out of the NFL, you jumped right into the smoothie shop? No, no.

That took like five years. I was like digging ditches for like a pool company for a while. You were working for a pool company? Yeah, I didn't know what to do, man. I was, like, making $700 a week, smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, digging ditches. It's gotten to great shape. And my boss was fantastic. Pool scape and Guilford, Mike Martosi, awesome guy.

But yeah, I didn't know what to do. So I was, like, doing that. I did, like, sales stuff. I did, like, all kinds of stuff. And then I finally kind of fell into the juice thing because, like, it was healthy. I saw it out on the West Coast. My mom actually runs the kitchen side of things. And she was always, like, an amazing cook.

like did juices and smoothies and came up with like all the recipes and stuff like that. So it was like really like really great because it was like kind of like I always feel like I know that they don't look at it like this, but I always look at like my like family kind of saved me a little. You know what I mean? Like we all do it together. You know, my mom, sister, dad are a part of it. And that's something that I just feel like is like pretty. That's probably why I love it too because like my heart is in it too.

You know what I mean? And I really love it. I love the brand. And it's like our family brand. So it means a lot to me, you know? If you could go back to your high school self, would you change anything? or would you give that version of you advice for what was to come in the future? I don't know, man.

You don't want to change anything. It's weird. I think about that a lot. I think we all think about that. You know, if I could go back in time, you know? And I don't think I would. I really don't. I want, for the first time, like in the last year or two, for the first time my life,

I'm, like, excited for, like, the new future. You know what I mean? Like, I want to see what this reality and this timeline holds. You know what I mean? Like I want to go forward here. For a long time, I wanted to go back in my life and like change things. You know what I mean? Like back to the future shit.

I was like, I just told myself that. But I don't think I would. I don't even think I would bother myself. You know what I mean? Because I don't want myself to see me, you know? I think I would just leave it, you know? Yeah.

John, thank you so much for coming on the show today, man. That's been a pleasure chatting with you, really great conversation. I appreciate it too. Yeah, it's been a long time for me. So thank you. You're awesome, man.

Warm up. Thank you, bro. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you to Patrick again for connecting us. And I got to come check out the smoothie shop. Absolutely. We'll get you addicted.

That place out. It sounds good.