Locked In with Ian Bick - From Prison to Stardom: How Stephen Wesley Turned an 8-Year Sentence into Hit Songs with Slash & T-Pain

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

Stephen Wesley, once sentenced to eight years in prison at just 18, found redemption through music. During his incarceration, he discovered his passion, taught himself guitar, and performed for fellow inmates. After his release, he persevered, eventually landing a record deal and collaborating with music legends like Slash and T-Pain. In this episode, Stephen shares his journey from prison to the music industry, the challenges he overcame, and how he turned his life around through dedication and talent. #StephenWesley #PrisonToSuccess #RedemptionStory #MusicJourney #TrueCrimeStories #Slash #TPain #InspiringStories Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Stephen Wesley: IG: https://www.instagram.com/imstephenwesley/?hl=en Website: https://www.instagram.com/imstephenwesley/?hl=en Tea Company: https://www.instagram.com/generositeadrinks/?hl=en Listen to Stephen Wesley on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0MNhan1lhCeQUOnQtG6ZDC Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 00:05:00 Journey Through Relocations 00:11:06 Childhood Dreams of Music and Sports 00:15:43 Meeting the Love of My Life in Newport 00:21:16 Wrongful Conviction and Life in Prison 00:26:54 Non-Violent Conflict Resolution 00:32:14 Building Relationships with Prison Guards 00:37:23 Life Lessons Learned in Prison 00:42:30 The Spark of Performing for Others 00:47:48 Achieving Dreams After Prison 00:53:36 The Power of Music in Community Activities 00:58:45 Embracing Change and Growth 01:04:12 Transitioning from Prison to Music Career 01:09:42 Overcoming Challenges in the Music Industry 01:16:47 Balancing Music and Business 01:21:08 The Generosity Business Model: Giving Through Consumer Goods 01:25:35 Ending Remarks and Future Plans Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Stephen, welcome to Locked in. Thank you to your wife for setting this all up. And this is the power of checking your DMs because she DMs because she DM me on TikTok and I read it and she wrote like this whole thing and I read it. I was like, what? Like, really? Yeah, she, it was like three paragraphs long. And then I Google you and then I read the whole Wikipedia page. And then I was just shocked you've never really like sat down and did this type of thing before. No, I appreciate that. And thanks for having me. This is awesome. Yeah, she's pretty amazing. I told her a while back, I was like, you know, if you ever have some extra time, you should check into these things. But that had gone by and, you know,

she gets into her stuff and she gets busy too and she takes care of our family. And so she's pretty busy. But she said, have you heard of Ian Bick and his locked in podcast? And I was like, I don't, you know, I don't really have a lot of time for podcasts. She was like, you got to listen to it. And so we took a trip and that's all we listened to from there and back. And she was like, I, beforehand, she was like, I really like this guy. You could tell that he cares.

You could tell that he's really been there. And that like, this is really important to him. And sharing people's stories is really important to him. And I was like, oh, you know. So then we listened to it. And I was like, man, this is pretty neat. Left it, right? And then I got back into whatever it was I was doing.

And then she was like, you remember Ian Bick? And I told you. And she was like, oh, you know, super excited. Like, you know, she still loves the celebrity thing. And it was just a really big deal to her that you got back to her. And I still, you know, I always wait until it's done before I get, you know, excited about anything. That's just how it goes, right?

But I'm still really excited. So thanks so much, man. She did a great job, but thank you for having me. Yeah, thank you for coming, man. I mean, I'm so excited for the audience to hear your story. But before we get into it, I want you to tell us about the tea company you have and what it does and plug that in. Yeah, so generosity. It is an ice tea, a 20-ounce ice tea.

And each flavor has an assigned charity. And so every time you purchase it, 10 cents, it's right on the front of the bottle, goes to that charity. So for the last few years, when we started, we've been around for about three years. Our sweet tea benefits the Humane Society. Our raspberry tea benefits the National Breast Cancer Foundation. And then our green tea is Operation Homefront, Military and Military Families. So every time you buy it, it's 10 cents. And some people may not think that 10 cents is a lot, but it is a lot.

And it adds up, and it's a lot of our margin or my margin. And so it makes it kind of tough to make a lot of money on, but that wasn't really the goal is helping people. I've seen these organizations and what they do to help people. And so we've had it in Walmart, like all of California Walmarts, this year we're growing, hopefully like into Kroger and maybe Dollar General and some other places this year. But we kind of had a, you know, we started off with a very small amount of money. And the fact that where where we're at is nuts. There's no way we should be this far along when you're up against Coca-Cola and Pepsi. And I don't like to say up against or them being my competitors,

but in the world of business that everybody is, you know, it is a competition. But, you know, not for me. I just want to, you know, make a difference. Yeah. And can people buy online too? That's tough. So we tried to do the whole Amazon thing and Shopify and it's heavy, right? So you lose everything there.

So it's kind of been a loser working on that. And then Amazon, unless your Coke or Pepsi, doesn't really want to work with you on that packaging price and the shipping. So we're still trying to navigate around that, man. And I mean, if anybody's listening that knows, reach out, you know, because I could surely use the help there. But I would love to. Yeah, the shipping's tough. I just shipped two cases of the Wu energy to a couple friends. And it was 25, 30 bucks each.

Yeah. That's crazy. It's tough. These are a 12-pack. minimum it's going to be $12 to ship it. Average is about $16. And that's, I mean, you've got to sell it for way too much. And I'm not trying to make it like a bunch of money on it.

I just, you know, keep it going and help these charities. But it's really tough in the shipping. So we have to get it in more stores. Yeah, I guess the Amazon Connect is key because I'll order cases of water for here and I look for the deals. I can get like a 24 pack for like 12 bucks, free shipping. You can't beat that. No, man, not unless you're going to Walmart yourself. That's like, that's pretty serious.

Yeah. Every day they have like a new water featured on Amazon. That's like the hack. That's great. I want to be their new tea featured. Awesome. We'll have the link and like everything for your stuff in the description of this. Thanks, man.

Thank you. So you live in Vegas now. I do. Did you grow up in Vegas? I didn't. Born in Indiana, we moved around a lot, moved down to Texas, out to California, back to Indiana, Colorado. And then that's where I did my time was in Colorado. And then upon getting out, I went down to Vegas to, you know, be close to my mom and dad and lived there for seven years,

moved out to Laguna Beach for seven years. And now I'm back in Vegas for the last three or four years. Oh, you lived there originally before California. I did. Yeah. I couldn't talk my wife into coming to Las Vegas. She was like, I'm never leaving. I'm not going, you know, we lived on the beach. I got it. And she was happy there. And she's really easy. I don't want her to sound like, you know, I don't want to sound like she's a bitch. She's not.

She's really easy. But she wanted to be close to her family and they were in California. And she hated the heat. And I'm like, we'll get a pool. You know, it'll be great. And now she loves it. She loves it a lot. Yeah, I think that's what's holding me back to because my family's out here.

Yeah. My dad's getting older, you know, so I don't know if that's in the cards for me to go West Coast just yet. But I think definitely at some point in my career, I could see myself out there. I think like we were talking about off camera, I think that it would be a really good idea for you. Even if you just got a small studio out there and did some shows, you just went out there for a week or two, and you wrapped up a bunch of West Coast shows out there and made it easy for the people from L.A. or from, you know, in Phoenix, even in Vegas. I mean, there's so many people in Vegas now that could be great for your show. But I think it would be good for you, but family's always first, man.

Yeah, I actually gratefully get to use Spotify Studio in L.A. We have a deal with them. So I get to go out there. I go out there like once every couple months. Nice. And we shoot at their studio. So sometimes people will see me in a different studio. That's why.

You're doing something right, man. If you got Spotify's studio, you're doing all right. Good for you. They don't offer me anything. They have these beautiful studios that just sit there just for creators. They actually invited me to an event this Wednesday with Halsey. She's doing like a live performance with the CEO of Spotify. So I'm shooting LA for the day before I go to Texas.

Oh, all right. Yeah, I'm right down the road. So when you said we growing up, who were you growing up with? Did you have your mom and dad together? My mom left my father when we were very young, probably five. I was maybe four or five, something like that. And then we moved to Texas. And then right when I was about six, my dad,

My stepdad was a Mormon missionary. And he came to the house and he would be, you know, coming over and teaching us about the Mormon church. And I guess, you know, he fell in love with my mom. And he was like, I'm going to finish my mission. And when I come back, I'm going to marry you. And she, like, laughed at him. And that dude came back. And he was with her all the way until she died a couple years ago.

Oh, wow. Yeah. He was a good man. And he took up, so there was myself, my older sister, my two younger brothers. There were four of us that we had before he came along. And then he had another little girl with my mom. So there were a total of five of us before, for a very long time, he took care of us. And he gave us the best life that he could.

He was a good man, good role model. Did you have any relationship with your actual dad? No, actually, the first time I really, saw and spent any time with him, he came to visit me in county jail when I was waiting to go to prison. And he came out from Indiana and he died shortly after I'd gotten out. You know, so we didn't really have a, we didn't have a bad relationship, but, you know, there were things that happened with him and my mom that, you know, are really tough to get over as a man. and as someone, you know, who went with their mother

and, you know, knows a lot of the story. So it was tough. Do you wish that they had stayed together through your childhood? No. No. I think he was a really bad guy younger. They were together. I mean, I think they started, they had my sister at 15.

And then, I mean, I was right after that and my brother. So they were young kids. But he wasn't the greatest guy in his brothers. I think were Hell's Angels. and they were, I think they, you know, they did a lot of bad things to him and he did a lot of those things back to my mom. And so she had to get away from there. And we had to get away from there just for safety sake at that age.

And so I don't. I'm glad. But what I did find out was, you know, I'm close with his second family and his kids and everything. And he was a good dad to them. He was a really good dad to them. So I think it worked out for everybody. were you and your siblings close?

We're super close. Yeah, we're, you know, my sister lives right down the street. Actually, my older sister and my younger sister, she just moved down the road. So they're both within 10 minutes of me. My brother, yeah, my brother, he's only 11 months younger than me. And he lives in Colorado. I just spoke to him last night and told him about, you know, he's like, what are you doing in Connecticut? I was like, oh, man, I'm really excited.

But so we were really close. We're all, and I have another younger brother as well. We're all really close. They're getting a snowstorm right now, right, Colorado? Probably. Well, we flew over it and it was completely white. Wow. We're like, I'm not missing that at all.

How would your siblings describe you as a kid if we had them here today? Oh, man. I don't know. That's a good question. I was always, I was always pretty happy, I think. and, you know, emotional. I was close to my mom. Loved, you know, loved sports and music.

I always loved music. I was always a music fan. I thought that I would be Michael Jackson at a very young age. You know, I believe that they would all be good things. I mean, I've always tried to be a good person. Our parents raised us to be good people. We made some mistakes, but, you know, Yeah, I think that they would, they were proud of me then, and I know they're proud of me now.

Did your family have money growing up? No. No, no, no. We lived, I think when we moved back to Indiana, we were in the projects there. I mean, like, we didn't, we never had money. We did, when we moved out to California from Texas, my dad had, he was working two full-time jobs. And so he was doing not fantastic, but we were not for the first time, like, always out of money. We had clothes. We had all of the, you know, the things that we needed.

And not that we ever didn't have everything that we needed, but it was much more comfortable. It was much more comfortable out there. But, yeah, and then we went, it was kind of right back to, you know, after we left there, it was all right back to the kind of trap of not having a lot, not having much, doing the best that we could to survive. Was that common for the areas you were living in, or were you guys like the outlier?

I think, you know, I, looking back at my friendships and my friends, I don't think that we, I think that we were the struggling family. But, you know, you never know as a kid. You just have no idea. But it looked like, you know, my friends, my best friends, his dad was a vet and his mom was a nurse or my, you know, this guy's owned a big construction company. And so I think that they did, you know, they did well for themselves. And again, you know, we're talking when my dad, when my stepdad, and I call my dad, but when my dad got with my mom, he was just a missionary, and he was only 19. And he took all four of us on.

So he didn't have a lot of life experience. And my mom certainly didn't have a lot of life experience. So they were literally kids with no education and no extended education and no real clear, you know, linear. career path. And so they were just kind of doing the best that they could. And, you know, that was, that came in the form of a lot of different careers and jobs, you know. What was your high school experience like? Well, there were several of them. We moved around quite a bit. So, uh, that must have been tough. Yeah, it's, it's always tough. Um, I started in Indiana and it was a very bad school. It was, it was, there's a lot of violence and a lot of just bad things happened.

out there. And so we, um, they, my parents decided to move us out with my aunt and uncle out to Colorado, the small town. And we moved out to the small town and there was probably 1,200 people there. And oddly enough, I was, I was, I was a freshman and my wife, she was actually in the fifth grade. So I was in the ninth. She was in the fifth. And of course, nothing like that, but nothing like weird romantic thing. But so the school has two hallways. The high school hallways on the side and the like preschool through, I think maybe fifth grade or sixth grade is on this. And then on this side, it's like the seventh through the twelfth grade. It's very, very small.

There was like nine kids in my graduating class. And so everybody knew who each other was, you know. And we all passed. We all crossed paths. The older kids would go to the younger kids classes and talk to them. And so I got there and it was great. We're playing sports. We won state championships.

And it was just, it was a lot of fun. Then my parents moved back out. And so we moved with them. And we changed schools to a different school. And we kind of started getting a little bit too much freedom, maybe. And that's when things kind of, you know, went, went south. Wait, you and your wife met all the way back then. Yes, yes.

It's oddly enough. So we met all the way back then. And then I was living out in Laguna Beach and I'd been there for a couple of years. And I saw her on Facebook and we had all of the same friends and I recognized her. But I couldn't, I didn't know like, why do I know her? And we have all the same friends from Colorado. And finally, she was in prison. And so when she got out like a year after I had messaged her, she was like, yeah, I'm right down.

She was in Newport. So she was seven miles away from me out in California. Yeah. And we met up for lunch one day, and we have been together ever since. That's been... There aren't many guarantees in life. Your energy won't always show up. Your genes won't always fit. But I promise you this. If Just Thrive probiotic doesn't work for you, I'll refund every penny. Hi, I'm Tina. Just Thrive co-founder. And while most probiotics die in your stomach acid, Just Thrive is clinically proven to arrive 100% alive for gut health results you could find. feel better digestion less bloat healthy immunity improve sleep and clear skin take the just thrive probiotic challenge today visit just thrive health dot com slash podcast take control today with just thrive

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Yeah. How much impact do you think moving around switching schools had on your childhood? You know, at the time, obviously, like you said, it sucked. It's rough. You know, but it's like you really can learn a lot about adapting, you know. I mean, when you've been in prison, you know about adapting, right? And you really, unfortunately, there's so many different attitudes that come along with this. And I've seen them on here and I've seen them on other shows on TikTok where everybody's all hard and, you know, and that's not adapting. I mean, I don't think it's not a healthy way of adapting. And I think moving around, it teaches you very, very quickly how to adapt to your environment, how to adapt to different, you know, personalities. There's, in the long run, it was really great, I think, for all of us. At the time, it was very tough. So when's the first time you get into trouble?

So I was 17 and 16. and my brother, he had been in quite a bit of trouble. He was having a tough time. And, you know, the group of kids that we were friends with, that we're all kind of, we had one friend whose dad passed away. And so he had a trailer, his own trailer, and his mom moved out and moved in with her boyfriend. And so we were 15, 16, and 17 over at this, our own place, basically. We would go and stay over there. and it was just kind of like anything goes.

And so things started happening to try and get money, I think, and to just try and make our way and life not suck so bad. And then I think for some of those guys, it was really about the excitement of just, you know, doing dumb shit. And which is, you know, all great people, but just being a kid, you know, and not having somebody there to hold their hand

and our hand and say, you know, This looks fun and this looks great, but it's really not, and it's going to hurt you really badly. And these are the repercussions, and none of us were thinking about those things. And so they had all gotten together and robbed a convenience store. And it was like my brother had been in a lot of trouble, like I had said, and some of the other guys had been in trouble. And so, you know, it was like every one of these guys, I was 17, they were 16, they were talking about charging people as an adult. And then I got a, you know, I got a public defender. They were trying to charge me with, I can't, well, I don't know what they were at the, it's been a long time.

But ultimately, my public defender told me that I should plead guilty to aggravated armed robbery. And I was never near that place. I never went near it. I never had anything to do with it. But at the same time, I felt like I was maybe taking some of the heat off of my brother. And, you know, as my guy or my public defender had explained to me that they were going to charge him as an adult. And if they had gotten, you know, that he had either planned it or driven the car or whatever it was. And I think there's a lot of mess in there now that it's just really, really fuzzy for me all of these years later.

think, you know, the judge was really awful and he was trying to make an example. And my public defender really just didn't care at all. And the district attorney, I think his daughter was the one that was working at the gas station. And nobody was hurt, but it was just a really unfortunate situation. And after it had happened, and by the time they had found out who had done what, and somebody had heard a conversation of one of them talking and everything was turned into the cops. I had turned 18, just turned 18. So boom, charged me. And, you know, I was thinking I was going to get the same thing.

I was told I was going to get the same thing as my brother was going to get, which was like a juvenile boot camp, right? And they gave him four years. I thought I was going to get four years. gave me eight. Why did they give you double than your brother? I don't know. They were trying to make an example. And so, and I know that they knew that I was not, they knew that I was not like the culprit there. And maybe that I was trying to take some of that heat off. And maybe I did and maybe I didn't. But I always felt like I did. And that was like kind of like the goal there, you know, was to try and, take whatever I could away from my brother. And he didn't ask me to, and he had no idea. And it was something that I was just trying to, you know,

navigate as a young kid and do my best to get through. Because it was scary. It was scary as shit. And, but I didn't think I was going to get eight years. I thought I was going to go to this juvenile place. And they gave me eight years. And I ended up doing almost seven. What was his first conversation with you when he found out you were, you know,

pleading guilty to something you didn't do? Um, I don't remember. I mean, I know that we talked about it years later, you know, and I don't, I think that he had a lot of things that he didn't understand about how it had all gone down and all had happened. And, you know, the police really wanted this situation. It was small town. They all, they wanted us really bad. And I think that they did a lot of things that were not, that if they happened today, all of this stuff would have been. I don't think it ever could have made it to court had they, you know, had to hold up to the standard that they have to hold up to now with cameras and with, you know, just the accountability factor that that's there today that wasn't there back then.

And so we've talked about it. And I think it's like maybe it's just easier that we don't really dig into it, you know? It was a, I think it was really rough for him. It was really, I mean, it was tough. I have, I, I had a pretty awesome prison experience. Like, I've had, my prison experience was like nobody else's. I mean, I hear all of these stories and I get it. I mean, I, I get, but it's all about mentality, I think, right?

And mine, I was, I know the last three years that I was in prison. I lived the rock star lifestyle in prison. prison. And that's all about attitude. And I think we can get into that too. But I just think it may be easier that if we haven't like really dived into it, you know, maybe we should. But, you know, maybe that's why we still have a great relationship, you know. Why do you think they wrapped you up into that, like to charge you to begin with? I was in the crew. That was my, that was still my little crew. I mean, those were my, that was my brother, my best friends, all of us. We were always together. They, you know, I was at the house when that happened. The girl that I was seeing,

they used her car. So it was all kind of just like a, you know, I thought that when, when I was pleading guilty to that whole thing, that they were, they were, I was pleading guilty to planning this thing, right? And then when I go back and I was trying to get out of this, like, Colorado only has one maximum security prison, and it's for like really death row and only a few, maybe 100 people that just can't get along with anybody. Everything else is like medium, close, medium, and then you work your way down. And I was in Buena Vista, which is like a medium, close gladiator school, really. And it was just kind of like, you know, I'm, I lost my.

train of thought. What was a question again? About why they charged you and you were saying how it's your crew. Yeah. So we just, it was like we I think that they wanted they wanted to get as many people in there wrapped up in it as much as possible.

And they did. And I told when I got to the prison, I had realized that my public defender was really did an awful job from beginning to end, top to bottom. And what I thought I was pleading guilty to, they told me when I got there, why I was in this place with everybody in there was like 40 years, 60 years. I had eight, right? Everybody I knew. I don't think I met anybody that had under 20 years in there that was, I mean, it was a pretty crazy situation. But I think that, like,

they, they, they, they, they, it was a violent offense. That's when I found out. It was a violent offense and that's why I was there and I was like, how is, you know, planning the robbery if it wasn't there, you know, a violent offense? And I got all on my papers and it said that I was I thought, what I was told was I was pleading guilty to aggravated robbery with armed Confederate. I'll never forget that. And they explained to me that that meant you knew about it before and you knew about it after and you didn't do anything. And then when I got to prison, And my paperwork said aggravated armed robbery, period. Aggravated armed robbery.

And so there was so much there that still doesn't make sense. And I have, you know, this guy, that judge, he sent a lot of kids to prison, you know. And I don't know if he was really trying to do his job or just, you know, keep it for a long, long time. Or if he thought he was really helping out. But he didn't. He heard a lot of kids. Why weren't you there that night of the robbery? Because the girl's car that they were using.

I was busy. Oh, you're busy. And what was their intention? Did they just want money? Or are they doing it for the thrill? No, I think it was just money, yeah. It was like $400. So you would have went with them?

I never would have gone in anything like that. Never. Why do you think that is? Oh, that's never. I'm not a thrill seeker. I've never gotten into like, stealing robbery guns

that stuff that's never been my thing you know I don't I'm not a violent person you know I prefer to kind of like talk things out and get things you know worked out between people as opposed to being violent

I mean can I fight I absolutely had to a few times in there but I just it's just that never did anything for me, you know? I had, I, I, I, I, I can't say that I had my eyes set on other things, but, you know, I just, that just never did anything for me. Where was your mom in all of this when the criminal proceedings were going on? She was at the house. She was at the house with my dad. And like I said, we would just be spending the night out over at my friend's house where we were just running amok, all of us. And, you know, hey, we're over here tonight. And, you know, I don't think she had any idea that there were no adults there at all ever. And so there was a lot of stuff going on over there. And that would have been, you know, could have probably gotten people at 25 or 26 in trouble. And we were doing it at 15, 16 and 17. But after you got arrested, she wasn't there to like make sure you weren't getting like taking a deal?

After I got arrested, we, none of us, we, we, we never got out after that. You know, I mean, we were, and then when we did get out, we were adults, you know, so we didn't go back home, I guess, so to speak, as children after we had been arrested. So she wasn't really there to, like, counsel you guys and give you advice? No. So you almost really got railroaded. Well, I think every person involved there got railroaded. not just me. I think every single one of them got railroaded. And there should have been more compassion on that side. And not just from, you know, because these were my people or my friends or my family or

whatever, I don't think that they gave a shit. And, you know, you have to, as a judge, you have to have some sort of level of compassion to be able to see, hey, you know what, this could be a huge mistake and a turning point in this person's life. And let's give them this opportunity. or this option. Instead, you know what, you're going to prison and what's going to happen to you is going to happen to you. And that's just wrong, especially at 18 years old, 17 years old. I know that those kids, my brother and his friends and our friends, they all had to deal with the same kind of things in that boot camp because it wasn't just like a boot camp six weeks and you're out. You go through a boot camp and then you're in a really solid, strict program and they were in that for three, four, five years.

and so it wasn't like something easy that they could go through. I know that they suffered through the same kind of situations that I did. Would you have went off to college if you never went to prison? I think about that. I think so. I mean, I would have hoped so. Now I know that college isn't for me, but I'm 46. And I don't mean it as a 46-year-old man.

I mean, I don't think that college would have ever been for me. but even back then I may have. I loved sports. I loved playing sports. You know, I had, but I don't know that I really had a good plan for myself. You know, I mean, maybe could have ended up a lot worse. I don't know. So you get sentenced now at 18 to the eight years.

Yeah. What's going through your mind when that happens? I was so scared. And I was sitting in county jail and I was in county jail for a while. And I had a couple of guys in there. And they were older guys. And they were both in big bike gangs, like really big bike kings. And one of them was like an enforcer.

So he was like pretty serious. But I never had problems with people like this. They all kind of like took me under their wings. They were all really good to me. And they would teach me. And they would say, this is going to happen. This is going to happen. And when you do this.

And so, but at the same time, they were like, look, you know, you have the right to be scared and you should be. It's a really scary situation that you're going into, especially for eight years. And your age, you're going to end up here. And I did. I ended up there. And there's a million prisons in Colorado. There's just way too many.

But I did go to the one that, you know, I absolutely didn't want to go to, which is, you know, they say it's a gladiator school. And it's just fighting and, you know, people getting stabbed. And it's just a lot of, a lot of ugliness there. Everybody's trying to prove themselves to each other. It's the stupidest thing, right? And so it was really scary, really scary. And then, you know, I got there and I realized, you know what? I was 18 and I was six feet, two inches tall.

And nobody was bothering me. Nobody messed with me. I didn't have to walk around and be like, hey, yo, wood. I mean, all these, I don't get those stories. I don't understand them. They don't. And I lived it for a long time. And so, I mean, you're, you're, I look at those things like, if you talk like that, you're one of two things. You're either living it or you're lying, right? You're living it or you're lying it. Because I was there and I was really in the middle of it. And I played a lot of sports. So I hung with the black guys. I hung with the white guys. The Mexican guys. It didn't matter. I was right in the middle of all of that. I just, I, I never had to walk around with my chest out. and act like I was bad and that, you know, I mean, it just, that stuff never made sense to me. I felt like the people that really mattered in prison to me were the guards.

And if you treated them well, and I don't mean like telling on people, if you treated them well, like regular people that they were trying to do their job, there were a couple of dickheads, of course. And I remember them. I remember their names still. There's a lot I forgot, but I will never forget their names. There was only three of them in all of that. that time, the rest of those guys were pretty great people. They wanted, they did a job,

they wanted to go home, and the better you treated them, the more you treated them like a peer or like somebody that was working with you, the more they did that to me and for me. And that's why, like I said, the last three years of my prison sentence, all of my friends would be like, dude, you get, you get the rock star prison experience while we're in there, you know, and I did. Thank you. With the RAM Declaration of Deals, we're pledging our allegiance to the American people with great deals on the RAM 1,500. Back with the legendary Hemi V8 and the RAM heavy duty. With the available Cummins Turbo Diesel delivering 1,075 pound feet of torque, all backed by a 10-year-mile, 100,000 mile train limited warranty.

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why you weren't being recruited in anything or getting in any trouble? No, you know, I had situations that happen. I had gotten in fights because of sports. It happens, you know. There was another situation where there was a church band and there was this black guy played bass crazy. And I mean, I play with the best. now, right? This guy was

unbelievable. Musician, he was incredible, bass player, but the knowledge that he had of music was just like, I couldn't even grasp it, right? And I just loved him. I loved watching him, and he was just brilliant. And if you

can play music the way that that guy did to me, I mean, you're like, you're an idol of mine. And I was a young kid, right? So one day I went into the Chow Hall and I sat down him. I sat down at a two-seater and he came and sat with me at lunch and like this was a big no-no apparently. But I never, you know, I didn't think about it. All of the sudden, like all of the guys that I had, not all of them, but a lot of the guys that I talked to are kind of friends with,

they stopped talking to me and they kind of shunned me. And then I heard like these things about, you know, not wanting to have anything to do with me and even like fighting and stuff like that. And I brought them to my room. I got all of those guys together and I brought them to myself. And I was like, look, I heard what's going on. I've heard you guys talking about this. I've heard from this and this and this. And I was like, look, I've never pretended to be like you people. I don't believe in this race thing, right? I told them, this guy, he's a beautiful person to me. I learned so much from this man just in a couple of minutes. I've learned more from him in five minutes than I've learned from you guys in all of the time that we've been here. And this is what I want to do with my

life. You guys? Nothing. I don't get anything from you. And I'm like, I'm not talking shit and I'm not trying to hurt you guys or fight you or anything else. What I am trying to say is we're not the same. Just because I don't live by your principles doesn't mean that we shouldn't be cool. And everybody shook hands with me and it was over after that. I never had, I never had any issues. They were like, you know, you're right. I'm, we're, I got some sorries for, you know, I'm sorry. And, you know, I just never pretended to be anything that I wasn't in there. No, Colorado didn't have any programs to reduce that time from, you know, eight all the way down to half or parole or anything. Colorado's messed up, man. So, you know, they, have you heard of mandatory parole?

Not really. I'm not too familiar with parole because federal, there's no parole. Got it, got it. Okay, so it's jacked up, dude. So you can get a maximum sentence, whatever that statute is in Colorado, and then you have a mandatory parole period on top of that, depending on what your class felony was. So at any time, so like, they do a lot of tricky, tricky things in Colorado, right? So they have to parole a certain amount of people a year. They have to. It's just like whatever their deal is. And so how they do, that is like me, I went to the parole board three times and they just kept denying me. But the last time I went, they paroled me to my mandatory release date, which was a year away. So technically, I got parole, but I wasn't allowed to leave for a year when they couldn't keep me anymore. So they paroled me to my mandatory release date. Then when I got out, I started a new sentence, five years of mandatory parole because of the class of felony. So at any time, I could go back to prison during that time.

And I think that was the worst. That was like the most stressful because those parole officers in Las Vegas are no Bueno. Tell us about your transition from, you know, those early days of prison to actually kind of getting on your path and figuring out what you want to do

because from what I've read about you, a lot of prison had, you know, a lot to do with it. Yeah, I think prison definitely made me who I am today or helped me become who I am today for sure. So, you know, one of the greatest lessons in life I learned in prison, which was never be afraid to hear no, right? Ego, it really has no place for your growth as a person in life. If you can lose your ego, man, you can, the sky is the limit. Nothing can hurt you, right? Don't ever be afraid to hear no. And so for a while, there's,

I was like, I'm going to play in the NBA when I get out of here, right? I was sure of it. And I was a good player. I got to be really good in there. That's all I did. And I was sure I was going to play. And so I'm like, you know what? I'm going to write to the president of the Nuggets.

Kiki Vandeway, Hall of Famer. He was the president of the Nuggets at the time. I wrote him and I'm like, hey, I'm changing, turning my life around, and I am going to get out in about three years, and I'm going to come and play for the Nuggets. And that dude wrote me a handwritten letter back. and he was like, hey, I'm really glad you're working on yourself and making changes in your life. You know, we have to do everything through the draft, but we do have this thing coming up starting next year called the D League,

which is now the G League. It's a big deal, the Development League of the NBA. And he's like, if you want, they'll be, they'll, we're going to put that in the paper where people can come and try out. Folks can come in and try out for the team. And so just keep your eye on that. If you're not going through the draft, we can't do anything for you. But this would be a way for you to make it onto the team. And so what I realized was all of my friends, I told them, and they were laughing at me before I got anything back. Like, I'm going to write to him and I'm going to tell him, I'm going to come and play for the Nuggets.

And they thought it was funny. And it wasn't so funny when he wrote me back, right? There was, you know what that did was it gave this glimmer of hope. And I needed that. I know I needed it. Even if it was subconscious, I needed that little bit of hope. But maybe to my friends that I was reading this handwritten letter from a Hall of Fame basketball player who's the president of a billion dollar franchise, you know, maybe it gave them a little bit of hope too. I don't know.

But I know that it was like very eye opening. You can, it doesn't, you know, it wouldn't have hurt me if he never wrote me back. I just was expecting him not to. But he did. And so I started teaching myself guitar inside, and I would play in the yard. You could check out a guitar when the gym was open. So I'd play in the yard, and I'd be singing and playing. And then, you know, after a little while, I started to get okay.

And the chaplain, he's walking by, and he hears me. And so let me back up for a second. I get to this, it's a minimum security facility in Delta, Colorado. and it's like 11 miles from where I was from. And so they're like, look, you have work crews and all of that stuff. You're never getting out because you live right here, right? We can't take a chance of you bringing anything in or meeting anybody. You know how it goes, right?

And so, you know, like, all right, cool, no problem. But so then I'm playing the guitar and I'd been there already two years maybe. And he walks by and he's like, you can sing. you should come and sing in the choir and I'm like I'm cool man he's like no you go to the choir and you get to go out and we go and sing in the towns and you get real food and you know we have these Christmas parties where we go and sing and I'm like they told me they'd never let me out and he goes if you'll sing in the choir I will get you a gate pass and I was like I'm telling you they lived in Montrose they are not going to do it and he said if you will sing in the choir I will get

you a gate pass and I was like sure man and you know how it's so different. Like prison is so different than the movies. You don't talk to the warden. You don't see the warden. Like you don't have conversations like you do in the Shawshank Redemption. You know, it's not like he's a busy dude. He's got other things. There's a chain of command and you're way down here. And one day I'm walking to the chow hall with my friends and the warden is standing at the control center. And he's like, hey, he calls me by my name. And he says, come here. And we're all looking at each other. And so I walk over and he goes, if I give you a gate pass, are you going to do anything stupid? And I said, no.

And he said, okay. So the next day I had a gate pass. And I went out to the chapel, which had a lot of great music gear and equipment that, of course, I didn't have. I didn't have anything other than some shitty acoustic guitars in the gym. And it was like I saw why he wanted me to go out with them. They didn't have a lot of great singers. And so he threw me out. with the microphone and had the whole choir behind me.

And that weekend, we went out for the first time. And we sang at a church had burnt down. So they had it at the local high school, their church. And we sang. And this is one of the best moments of my life, ma'am, still to this day. And we are, after you get done singing, you could go and stand in front of the stage, shoulder to shoulder, all of us in a line. And the patrons can line up, you know, over here and then walk,

by and shake your hand, good job, go with God, stay out of trouble, all that stuff. Very nice to meet you. And I'm like three quarters of the way in through this line. And there's a big line in front of me. And this little girl is probably 11, maybe 12, and she goes, you're going to be famous. Can I have your autograph? And I was like, I looked at my friends and they're like, this guy is like, do it, fool. I was like, okay, you know. So I did. And this guy is probably 50. He says, I don't know much about music, but if she thinks you're going to be famous, I should probably get your autograph too. And that day, I handed out probably 70 autographs in my prison uniform, you know?

And I knew, like, it wasn't the feeling of fame or feeling of what was going to happen, but it was the feeling that these people, I did something that they really enjoyed and they really cared about. and they loved it enough to come and tell me that they loved it. And that was what was my spark. That was my spark. So we'd start going out and we'd sing in these churches and we're making money for the prison. And then the warden, or not the warden, but the chaplain comes up to me.

He's like, I got an idea. We're going to start a prison band, right? And so now we're going to go to these other churches. When we're not doing the choir, I'll get you a guitar, drummer, bass, and you're going to sing and you're going to lead worship at this time. And so then we start going out more, right? All the time I'm gone. And it becomes this big thing.

And then he's like, so every year there's a parade in this town. And it's called the Delta Rado Days Parade. And he's like, Stephen, we're going to make a float. And we're going to put you on the front of the float. And we're going to put the band on there and the choir behind it. And we're going to run it off of a generator. And we're going to play live. And we did.

And, and, uh, and, uh, So we cruise through the town and I'm singing and I'm playing guitar. And it's the craziest thing because I'm in my prison greens. And we won first place, right? It was $5,000 for the chapel, Chapel of Hope. And the coolest thing was like two days later, he calls me into the office. And he's like, you're never going to believe this. Phil Driscoll, who was like the biggest Christian singer at the time,

it's like Phil Driscoll's assistant was in town. and they saw you and they called and they said, can this guy open up for him in concert next month? And I was like, whoa, that's great. What did you say? He's like, as long as the choir can do it. And I was like, that's awesome. What they say?

It was like, yeah. So we opened up for this guy, Phil Driscoll. And it was amazing. We sang and we did our thing and went and sat down. And then he got up and sang. And you could tell this guy was just like Christian music, but he was a rock star. You know, I mean, beautiful, amazing voice, crazy, crazy, just talented.

And he came to the crowd and grabbed me and pulled me up and did a song with him. And Jesus, lover of my soul, I will never forget it. And I just knew there that that's what I wanted to do when I got out. And, you know, taking that attitude. So I took every opportunity in there that I could. No matter what it was, no matter how small it felt, they could always turn into something really big. And so while everybody else was out killing themselves every day,

digging holes for fence posts in the freezing cold, you know, negative 11 wind chill in the snow in Colorado for 25 cents a day, they're paying me $3 a day to go to the shift commander's office after midnight, empty as trash and go back to my room. You know, so I had all day to do whatever I wanted to do. and that was because I treated them, you know, like I would want to be treated. I treated them like regular people. And again, I didn't, I wasn't there telling on anybody.

I wasn't giving up secrets. You didn't have to do that. You just had to treat them like human beings. That's all they wanted. And the more you did that, the more they gave you back as far, the more they treated me like a human being. And just a guy that was in trouble or a guy that was even hanging out. walking across the yard to go empty the trash and the shift commander's office. So it became a really big thing and that's what I wanted to do with my life in there and, you know, maybe find a way

to help other people that have been in that position just like you're doing now. And, you know, I couldn't even imagine it on the scale that you're doing it right now. But you can never dream big enough in there, you know, you know how it is. You get these dreams and you think they're so big and then you get out and they're attainable, you know, they really are. And then you realize, man, I should have, I should have aimed a lot higher than that. But I didn't know. You don't know what you don't know. But that's what's so cool about your podcast and what you're doing here isn't just, isn't for me. And it isn't for your other guests. It's for the millions of guys and women that they get out or they can see these and realize and understand that there's so much more to life. and it's not that.

It's all attainable. And like I said, you know, so kudos to you for doing this because you're not trying to show the cool side of being in prison. You're just like, this is what happens. And you can do better. We can all do better. We can always do better. You know, I love that about you and I love bad about the show.

Thanks, man. Yeah, I think it's, I've really grown so much with the show. Like, when I first started, like, it was on my list. I need to get all these celebrities. I need to get the biggest names. And now it's like, I've realized there's more hassle than anything dealing with the celebrity because then you've got to title it a certain way. You've got to deal with this.

You've got to deal with that. And their story's been told. Yeah. So, yes, it's cool. I think to me, like a photo with them is cooler than anything, like how I get to bump heads with with them and be in the same room as them. Yeah. I think that's cool.

But this dynamic doesn't work the same. I feel like if it was with one of them, it just way more different from an audience perspective. with a regular person who's never shared their story before like this. You know, if you had shared your story, you know, 50 times on 50 other podcasts, I just think it's different. Like when I go on another person's podcast to share mine, I've told it so many times. Yeah. It's just not the same.

So I think my role is to have the people that haven't told their story come have a safe place and just roll with it, you know? No, it's great. You ask great questions and you let it. Just like you said, it rolls out. It's really, what you've done is really great. Thank you, man. Yeah.

Did you know you had a talent for singing and music, or did you think you needed that chaplain to bring it out of you? Man, it's so funny. I always thought I was really good at faking it. At faking, like, singing. And, I mean, you know, I got slash on my song. I got T-Pain on my song. Bubba Spark, Steve Harwell from Smashmouth. I've worked with so many amazing people over all of these years,

and those are great stories. And the slash story is really great. But the fact is I always thought I was faking it. I was really good at faking it. Up until just like, I would say right around this time last year was really when I think I realized that I, belonged here, like I belonged in this space. And it was because my buddy, Charlie, Charlie Colin, he was in Train. And he was the bass player and songwriter, you know, drops of Jupiter and calling

all angels and meet Virginia, all of these, you know, he came and he stayed with my family and I. And we were working on new music and the show that I'm doing in Vegas. And, you know, it was him. he was like, I'd heard it a bunch of times. But again, I always felt like I was faking it. And he was like, you belong here, your voice, you can sing. You know, I've, I've, I've had the best. Pat Monaghan in my band. It's like, you can sing.

You belong here. You, you, you're the real deal, man, and you need to understand that. And that was kind of like really eye-opening for me. This guy's won three Grammy. you know and he's written some of the best songs ever and um you know it was right about that same time that mike uh mike ward from the wallflowers he said the same thing to me and he had he was with the wallflowers he was with gavin de grawe he was with um uh i mean so many people um that uh you can't argue the logic you know and and so to have to answer

answer your question very long. I never believed to that until, you know, recently, even despite having all of those guys on my songs. So why do you think you still ran with it then in prison? Was it just to, you know, get out and experience the free world while you were incarcerated, or did you, were you passionate about it? No, I was always, I always loved singing. I mean, I always loved it. I just didn't think I was great. My mom was a really beautiful singer. My sister had a really, really great voice. So I think I always kind of measured my against that and like I always say now you can only quantify your own success you can't measure it against anybody else's it's you know and and I had to learn that but I loved singing

and I loved making people happy and I love that about performing and so I absolutely stuck with it but it was my opportunity to not I got to where the last year I was in prison I was only in there to sleep. That's it. The only time I was inside the walls were to sleep. Everything else, they had me going out to play softball in the rec league, basketball in the rec league. I was in the church. I mean, if I wasn't in the choir singing somewhere, I was in the church band singing somewhere. I mean, it was always something. And so I loved that. It was an opportunity to get out. But at the same time, I saw that, you know, you can, the power of music, you can, you can do a lot with the power of music, man.

Was country always your style, or did you grow into that? No. So after Cowgirl, so Cowgirl, in 2009, I cut Cowgirl. And the guy that produced it, he was working with Velvet Revolver to try and find their new singer after they had kicked Scott Weilin out of the band and they were doing demos. And so I was like, hey, man, do you think Slash would be on this song? and he laughed at me. My producer laughed at me.

And I didn't say anything. And then he finally stopped. And he was like, you're serious? And I was like, yeah. And he goes, well, I guess couldn't hurt to ask. So he got on the phone and he messaged him. And he messaged me right back. And he said, hey, man, he said he's super busy.

He gave me the polite blow off, right? Super busy. Doesn't really have a lot of time right now. He sent the song over and he'd absolutely listen to it. But just to let you know, he really couldn't do it. he doesn't have the time. I was like, all right, well, I appreciate it. He goes, well, I'm going to send it over anyway, but it was a good idea after he had laughed

at me, right? That was a good idea. And so I walk into the movie. I'm walking into a movie with my wife at the time. And I sat down. And it took about the time it takes to listen to the song before I got a message that said, call me right now. And I walked outside and he said, slash loves the song and he wants to do it.

And I was like, you know, that was one of my goals when I was in prison was to work do something with Slash and Uncle Cracker those were my two those were my guys and um and so uh uh i was like blown away but i thought once slash was on the song that everybody all the radio stations would play it um that you know that's it was had this big guy and and that would be it because i knew it was a good song and that didn't happen and you know it takes a lot of money or a lot of connections to make something grow that was 2009 So I worked on that. I was in the beverage industry as my regular job.

But for every single day, for five years, I pushed that song. I wrote to radio stations. I emailed people. I wrote to record labels, even on Sundays. Every single day, I did something for that song. I didn't care for it. I didn't think that I wasn't a passion of mine that song, but I knew it had something besides slash. That was just like an extra.

And five years, I worked my ass off. I never quit. I never gave up on that. I knew it was going to be, I knew it could be something. And then finally, I got it onto some radio stations in the Midwest, and it started charting on Billboard. And then I got it on to Sirius XM. And it started out selling everybody that was on there.

And at the time, it was like little Wayne, YouTube, kid, rock and it was just it was killing and i had no label nothing that was just me doing it wow and um but five years man i never gave up on that for five years and uh i just kept pushing and pushing and pushing and finally i got my record deal out of that at 35 years old and my first record deal people don't see that back part you know like i i know the path i'm on now like i'm still in the infancy like this is it'll be year two in in january at two years And it's like, you know, Rogan did it for years and years, Theo Vaughn, all these guys before they really blew up.

Right. So I feel like if I keep at it and the consistency, I'm on that trajectory. Ian, I've, but I've, I've had the great pleasure of walking in here. Like, so hearing your podcast and, and even seeing it are completely different than walking in and seeing all of the work that you do. That's a, it's a different story, right? We only see what we can see or hear what we can hear. and you can't fault people for that,

but at the same time, you want them to know, I struggled for this. I worked my ass off for this. I killed myself for this. I bled, I cried, I worked, I worked. You can walk into your office into this door and know you did all of those things and you've done all those things

and you're doing all of those things and that's what it takes to be successful. But you can live in that moment and be proud of it. You don't need anybody else to, you know, you don't need other people to adore you for that. You, I have goosebumps. You have to be proud

because I was proud of you when I walked in, man. Just from everything that I had read about you and the fact that you're giving your money but you are still paying people back and you're at $30 something thousand dollars. I read about that.

Oh, that was old. It's a way more now, yeah. You do. I'm down to $340,000. You see, you don't, you can get away with not doing that. A lot of people I interview

do this. what I mean. And you're not. That's, that means that you changed, right? Whatever life path you were on in there, you, you said you were going to make a change and you were going to make it up to these people. And that's the real rare part, right? We can all talk. You've had people in here that I know that, you know, aren't exactly like, you know, what they say they are. But you, your actions really speak louder than words. And like I said, I'm just super proud. I saw all the work that you did walking in here. And the fact that you're doing it all on yourself and editing. And, dude, you've got, you got, you have a lot going on, man. I love the hustle of it. You know, I just have to work on not spreading myself

too thin with other stuff. Like, I want to help people too, but I also have to stay on focus with my thing. Can't help anybody until you help yourself, man. Yeah. So you got to get in your, you got to get in your zone first. And once you're set and you're rolling, you can continue to do this and it'll get bigger and bigger and you'll help more people, but that platform grows as you grow. Tires matter. They're the only part of your vehicle that touches the road. Tread confidently with new tires from Tire Rack. Whether you're looking for expert recommendations or know exactly what you want,

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I got to go to the gym in the morning. I go walk my dog. I do things and I have to say no. Like if I go out to a dinner at night to do something, it throws off my whole thing because that's time I should have been doing something else. Yeah, but you have, you know, the, the, best thing that you can do for yourself or for in life is care for yourself and make sure that you, you know, because you're not going to be any good to anybody else if you're not good to

yourself. And that doesn't mean spoiling yourself and being a dick. That means taking care of the things that are going to make you healthy and happy and be able to do what you're doing right now. And you are, man. So just keep out of it. Thank you, man. How old were you when you got out of prison? And what year was that? 25. What year was that? 2000. Oh, so I just passed my 21 year. So it was 2003, October 22nd. Wow. Yeah. What was a world like when you got out? Was it really different? Yeah, it was very different. You know, it wasn't like, you know, I had a flip phone when I went in and I, but I was the only one around that had a cell phone. And when I went in and then I get out and everybody has them and, you know, That was, that's a, that's a culture shock.

But people were different, right? I was an adult. So women were different. Girls were different. And, and the world has changed a lot more since social media has happened. But, you know, it was, it was very different and very, very, very scary. You know, I didn't know exactly what to expect. I knew what I wanted to do with my life.

I just didn't know how I was going to accomplish those things. And, you know, I didn't know. know that so much in life was going to be based on relationships and, you know, money. And I was lucky enough to meet, you know, some really good people. Shannon, uh, this guy Shannon, uh, helped me get to, uh, like get my music career started and off the ground so that we could go in and record with slash. And then once I had slash, it was like it made everything so much. I mean, I had, I had a story and I had like real serious track record. I have Slash from Guns and Roses on my song,

not his song, my song. And then, you know, I could go to, you know, T. Payne with confidence and go, dude, I think I wrote the best song that I've written. And I think it would be killer if you were on it. And then in five minutes you get a message, it says, that's dope. Let's do it, you know, after he hears it. And you've got confidence to go to Steve Harwell from Smashmouth,

who sing All-Star and walking on the sun. And he's like, man, I love this song. Let's do it. Can you write a country album for me? And going back, I never wanted to be country. When that song hit, and I got my record deal with a, it was company under Sony called Aneco, and we all sat down and they were like,

we really want you to kind of go country and do this because the undertones of Cowgirl, which had nothing to do with country at all, to do a country album. And so that's what I did. And I thought they knew what they were talking about. And I just kind of took their advice. And, you know, it was cool for a while,

but it was never really... And I love country music. I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm from Indiana. You know, I love country music, but that wasn't what I wanted to ever be. I wanted to be my own kind of thing, you know. So what do you classify yourself as now?

I think it's just really like a pop or rock, you know, artists. I think, you know, like a lot of the stuff I'm working on now, you know, I have songs that I did write with Charlie right before he passed away and we started recording and Ward from the Wallflowers. But I'm working with, you know, founding members of One Republic and Panic at the Disco and Third Eye Blind and Weezer and all of these really great bands. And we're all working on new songs.

And so they're all kind of rock and pop. And, you know, it's still cool, but it's like, it's still fresh like today, but I love guitar and there's not a lot of guitar and stuff today, but I don't want to, I don't want to take the guitar out, you know. Now, you experienced a lot of success in prison just like with the music and doing everything you were doing. Were you expecting that to translate into a career quickly when you got out? Maybe. You know, I don't think I thought about it. All I, I didn't know what to expect when I got out. I knew that I was going to have to get a job.

I knew that I was going to go to live with my parents in Las Vegas. And even that was up in the air. And I didn't know what it was going to take to do, really, to get to any of my goals. I just had these goals. And when I got out, it was so my life became about doing everything that I could to make my parole officer happy and never go back. which meant working all the time. And that took away from, I think, probably at least five years of me getting it done even earlier. You know, but I was so concentrating on not going back.

And the parole officers in Las Vegas, they're just rough no matter what. And I know they get a lot to deal with, but, I mean, you know, it made it very hard to get there quicker and really even find a good outline of what I wanted to do. And so it costs a lot of money. It costs a lot of energy and a whole lot of tears and anger, you know, to get to a point where I have been successful, you know, even at the level that I'm at. When do you think was your like I made it moment? Oh, yeah. I was driving my niece, my brother's daughter, Madison.

I was driving her back. She was visiting my mom in Vegas. I was driving her back to Colorado after the summer was over. We were listening to the radio and I had not heard my song on the radio. And I had seen, there were places like I could show you that

I was like number one above. At the time, Mirrors was a big one by Timberlake and there was some stuff like pink and Maroon 5, all these big hits. And like in certain areas I was number one. The song was number one about these guys which is like still even saying it just sounds like a lie even to me right and I'm like I'm still blown away by that but we were sitting in the I was driving she was in the backseat and um I remember

it was toxic Britney Spears was on and I only remember that because my song came on right after that and I was just like I looked back at my niece and she knew and we were just like screaming and I was like whoa you know this is this is pretty crazy I've had so many amazing experiences. It's hard to nail down. I've been at dinner with Drake's dad and, you know, Dennis and in a club that nobody can get into. And by the end of the night, Gerard Butler sitting with us and DJ Paul from 3-6 Mafia and Nick, oh God, what's that guy's name? Nick?

He's Simmons, Gene Simmons kid and Jeffrey Ross and all of these people are trying to sit at our table, you know, because Dennis is the coolest. He is really is like the coolest guy there is. Dennis Graham, Drake's dad is the freaking, if there is a picture of cool, it's Dennis Graham. And he's cool. And he's a good dude, right? He's just, he's great. And, but people are always like, is that really Drake's dad? And I'm like, yeah, it's Drake's dad. They're like, hey, can I come over here? And these are like celebrities, you know, and they want to come over and hang out because he's great. but I've been in a lot of positions where I still like, you know, walking into the studio and with T. Payne for the first time

and just things that I never really would have dreamed. I said, slash and Uncle Cracker, Uncle Cracker is one of my great friends now, you know, and I got to work with him on some of his stuff, you know, a few years ago. And so I still have, every day, right before I got here, Freddie from Everclear text me. right these are bands that I love you know and loved when I was a kid and I'm like I can never ever yesterday was Adam from Matchbox 20 and I'm like these are my favorite bands I am just some dirtbag prisoner at a certain point ex-convict that couldn't get a good job in Vegas because I was an ex-convict and now I have a

show there and people come out a thousand of them at a time come out to see this show and there are these amazing guys that played in these bands and they're reaching out to me to want to do this with me. And so I have pinch me moments every day. When I'm on stage with Kevin from Third Eye Blind, the guy that wrote and played all of these great things, jumper, right? And how's it going to be? And I remember that stuff came out when I was in county jail. And I remember the sound, I remember that we had this little stereo and like this little Bose stereo in the in the county in the county lockup. We just listen to music all day and I remember how's it going to be and that riff coming on. And I remember I will never forget the way that that so that that riff reverberated in in the steel and the concrete.

And I love music. I've always loved music. I've had a really special relationship with it in my head my entire life and in my heart but I remember that and it and it it was a moment for me when I when I heard that and and how's it going to be how's it going to be and now I get to stand next to that guy on stage who wrote that you know and played that and I I still have to freaking pinch myself I look over there and and sometimes man it'll it'll draw a tear while I'm on stage because I still am like how did I get here you know I I love

of pinch me moments, man. They still happen every day. Do you think that your criminal past kind of delayed your process to make it in the music industry? Do you think it took longer because of that? I don't think that, I don't. I think that music is one very forgiving field, a career field, where, I mean, a lot of times, if you can really, you know, beat the odds, they'll use it for, you know, for your publicity and to show that, you know, this guy's hard or he's been here and, you know, and I try and keep away from it as much as possible because I don't want to glorify it at all. In situations like this, it's really great because it's not glorifying. You're really showing, you really are reaching out and showing what you could do with your life

despite what's happened and all of the things that it takes and what amazing and beautiful things you could still accomplish. But, you know, music, I think, is very forgiving that way. It's very, I think it's easier to get into music with a convict background than it is to get a job. Oh, it's impossible to get a job at a casino, right, in Vegas. So I would say you have a better shot of being in music at some level. Yeah, I mean, I think we've really seen a change over time. I think it's always been okay with like rappers and whatnot growing up.

Like I remember Little Wayne getting arrested and people like that and that never derailed their career. Right. But now on a bigger perspective, I mean, look, you have the president of the United States that has felonies on his record, regardless of what people think of him. I feel like it's becoming more okay. Like as I'm growing, I have felonies on my record. And there's many people like me, you have felonies, you know. So I feel like it shifted so much, even just from a few years ago because I remember in 2016, a lot of the press was, oh, you know, your life is over because, you know, you're indicted. federal this and that, but now social media has just changed it drastically.

Yeah, that's one of the good things that I think social media has done. I think it's more harmful than anything, but there is a lot that's really great about it too. And you're right. And I've seen so many shirts that say like my president is a felon or something like that, you know. So I agree wholeheartedly. It's good that, you know, I think we're living in a world now where despite, you know, cancel culture, people are still more willing to give second chances, especially when you go out and you try and earn that respect. And that's what I was talking about, you giving the money

back and working on that, too. That shows people that it's not just a farce and that you're just trying to, you know, look good at that. That's a real number. That's sweat. That's sweat equity in giving back into what you did. So I think those, that's what makes people believe in second chances. Yeah, I think the world around second chances is definitely different because we did go through that phase with cancel culture ever and getting canceled, you know, a couple years ago or a few years ago. And now it's a lot different. Obviously, someone shouldn't have a platform if they're racist or if they're, you know, there's other, you know, crimes against women or any, or kids. But it's just, it's, it's, the world has definitely changed from what I've seen in my experience in the criminal justice system

in just a few short years. Yeah, hopefully that never changes as far as those things that you mention, you know, that no, those guys never. I mean, I believe that a lot of people deserve second chances, almost most people, but the ones that you, you know, I'll sit on the cancel culture side of those, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Do you do like the, um, those programs of going back into prisons and jails to sing? Because that's becoming very popular now. Yeah. So, you know, I, I have been, um, we started this, uh, shooting this, um, uh, reality. show for TCN, the country network. And one of my other great friends and one of my best friends, the producer was shooting

it and doing everything. And then one of the episodes was we were going to go back to Delta where I played there and we were going to play for the guys. And I was going to bring in all the all stars. We call them All Stars. The Millennium All Stars is the name of the show in Vegas. And I was going to bring those guys in. and we're going to record it and everything else.

And he's stage four. And he's having really, he's, you know, he's battling as much as he can. So we've had to put all of that stuff on hold. And I didn't want to move forward. They, the network has reached out about it. And they wanted to kind of keep pushing it forward. And I just felt like, you know, there was really, there's not enough value to me there, whether it's financial or otherwise to move forward.

without, you know, my brother, my friend, and, and kind of cut him out because of the situation that he's in. And so, you know, so it's kind of difficult, but I have wanted to do that. And now I have like these really, this really, really incredible band of guys that, you know, everybody knows every single one of these songs. And I do, you know, eventually want to try and get back in there one way or another, and I think that that would be a really cool way to show these guys that, you know, there's life after prison for sure. I just haven't, man, it's tough for the timing has been really tough. But with the tea, you know, as it's grown, my time has gotten short.

And one thing I promised, you know, the people that were involved in the investment side of the tea was, you know, that I'm not going to, you know, do music and then tea on the side. It's got to be the T and I'm using music as my vehicle to kind of push that along and let people know about the brand and my friendships and stuff in the business. You know, so, but man, that's a balancing act and you know, that's tough. Yeah. I'm the same way. I got to be all in on something. I can't just do like a side thing.

It's got to be perfect. It's got to be everything. Give it my all to do it, which is why I got rid of like the editing business for other people because I felt myself working for someone else again. And I don't want that feeling. That's why I left my job. Good. Yeah, good. I just focus on this, which is good.

So what does the future hold for you? What do you want to see happen next? Where do you go from here? I would love to see the generosity go coast to coast to this year, this coming year at retail. And some of our retail partners that we've worked with. expand within them from coast to coast. That's what I would like to see the money that we're raising be significant and make significant changes in the lives of animals and breast cancer survivors and

military and military families and anything else that we decide to start, you know, working on. And we have a couple of other ideas as well. But I would love to see that grow. I have some, you know, I have some new music that we've been trying to, work on getting recorded. It has been getting recorded, but the process is so slow with everything else. I'd love to get those songs out. Our show in Vegas is doing really well. I would love to see that that continue because I don't have to leave. I have two little kids and I get to be home with

them every night and that's really awesome. But, you know, most importantly, I would love to see the T-Gro. I wanted to, you know, my kids, they're seven and eight. Then they love prime, right? And they never drink it. They never finish it. I mean, there's a reason for that. I'm not going to talk bad about anything, but they never finish it,

but it's cool to have it, right? They walk around their school. I see them, we got prime boys. And they did a great job of marketing that to these kids and to people. And I would love to see my, to get generosity and giving, you know, showing people that you can give. And it doesn't hurt, you know,

you're already going to spend the money on something to drink. It's so easy to give without even thinking about it. I would love to see it become mainstream and popular and somebody that really cared enough about it to go, oh my God, this is great. And then, you know, and shared it and these people shared it. And then it became, you know, just like that kind of slogan. But, you know, there's a lot of good behind it, you know. And right now, it's just me right now.

it myself, you know? And we've gotten it into Walmart. I've gotten it into Walmart. I've gotten it into Kroger. I've gotten it into a bunch of places around the country and distributors. We have an Anheuser-Busch distributor in Vegas. And so it's growing. But I would love to see it become something that people can be proud of what they're drinking, you know, not just because it's cool. And one of these YouTubers says that it's cool, but it's cool because it's cool to give, you know, without even thinking about it. Is there a lot of sugar in it? We have an unsweetened.

It's not out because unsweetened doesn't really sell as well as the others. So it's just it's right on par with anything like Pure Leaf or, you know, Gold Peak or any of the other T's that are out. It's kind of the same. Well, get me some cases and maybe I can help you get it more mainstream. Oh, I'd love that. I'll send you some for sure. Yeah.

To me, like I look at like those types of partnerships, not for me. monetary value. It's more like, one, I like ice tea. And I have like, woo energy. These are my energy drinks here. And as long as it doesn't compete with another brand, like we don't have a water ice tea or anything. Like, I'd love to have my guests on camera drinking it. And, you know, we could promote the crap out of it. And help you get it out there. And any merch you have, you know, you could send it to me too. Awesome. But yeah, I always go and get, every time I'm at like a gas station or something, I'll get an iced tea. Oh, okay. I'm a big iced tea drinker. Well, I get you a hat, but you have way too nice of hair to be wearing a hat, though.

I'll rock a hat. People send me hats all the time, and I'm just not really a hat person. I wouldn't be a hat person. If I had hair like that, I wouldn't be a hat person. Yeah, I used to be a hat person. I'll wear beanies. You guys have beanies? We can make one. That's easy. Yeah, but, you know, like, it's like I'm growing my relationship with the Tyson group and, you know, Rick Flair's energy group like that. I have their logos here and their stuff. And, you know, that started just like this, you know, these types of conversations. and stuff. So anyway, I can help with that. That would be amazing. Like I said, I, you know, I'm not, I'd love to make a living off of it.

I'm not trying to become the richest guy in the world. The whole idea behind generosity was to show retailers and brands, consumer products, consumer packaged goods that you can give a little bit of the money. And it doesn't, you know, it takes a little bit out of your profit margin, but you can give every single time, you know, you drink something or eat something. And we could get rid of so many, we could cure so many of the issues. Look, I mean, if we, if Coca-Cola was giving 10 cents a bottle, you know, to homelessness in America, or, I mean, we could, we could literally, I know, we could kill so many of the problems that we have in, in society here just by giving a little bit, but when it's with something that you already drink or eat, I didn't reinvent the wheel

when it comes to iced tea. It's great tasting stuff. It's not some weird concoction, right? It's just as good as anything else, but it gives to charity. It's the same as everything else. It just gives to charity. That's the only difference. And so, you know, I love that about it. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of that more than anything else that I've done. That's awesome. Yeah. What piece of advice would you give to someone, you know, that's just getting out of prison or, you know, struggling inside prison or just struggling in life in general. That's kind of hit a low point and it's looking to find their passion, their purpose.

Yeah. You know, I mentioned it earlier. I think don't ever be afraid to hear no. Never ever be afraid to hear no. Your ego only holds you back in life. There's nothing wrong, whether it's, you know, a woman that you want to take out. And she says, no, it doesn't do. it doesn't hurt you. If there's a job that you want to go after, you know, the only thing

holding you back is your ego. You can, you really can, nothing is out of your league. No, no person, nothing is out of your league. It's really all about mindset. The other thing is like, you know, being kind to people, being good to people. It's so important. I have the best friends in the world. I believe that. My group of friends are amazing. I would not be sitting here if it wasn't for it. I put my money into my tea company and I made some from music and then I've struggled because that's what happens when you start a business. But my friends have helped me through it all, all of them. And I love them dearly. So your support system, have a good support system. If you don't have a good support system, then you be your support system. and start from there, start from the ground up and believe in yourself. Like, again, I had no education when I got out. The only thing I learned in prison, I got a degree in vocational janitorial, so I could clean a toilet.

Nothing wrong with that. If that was what I was going to do, if that's what I wanted to do, or if that's where I was going to start. I started in my first job was awful at an auto auction, and I had to clean. out brains of cars that were smashed and rolled over and it was just awful. But then I got into a warehouse and I started working for beverage company in a warehouse. And then I got on a truck driving it and I made a little bit more money. Then I became a sales manager, then a manager. And then I was the national director of a beverage company of a sales director. And now I have

my own. And I believed in myself. And I had to fudge my way in. And I had to fudge my way in. a little bit and say, you know, I knew a little bit more than what I did or I was more qualified, but now there's really nothing that you can't learn on the internet. You want to do something, research it, read it, write it, believe it, breathe it, eat, sleep it, and you can do it. I mean, you know, you're doing it every day. You can do it. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, Stephen, thank you so much, man, for coming out here today. Thanks for having me. Leave in Vegas to come to the cold. I love it. It's not that bad. It's about the same in Vegas right now. It's cold and windy. So it was a good time to get out.

Yeah, definitely. Well, I appreciate you. I'm glad we got to meet and do this. And we'll definitely, you know, stay in touch. And I'm going to come see one of your shows. You got to. Thanks, brother.