Locked In with Ian Bick - From Rikers Inmate to Federal Agent: My Journey as a Cop, Air Marshal & Federal Prison Officer | Jeffrey Feller

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

Jeffrey Feller shares his journey from being an inmate at Rikers Island due to a misunderstanding to building a career as a cop, Air Marshal, federal agent, and eventually starting his own private investigation business. In this episode, Jeff talks about his experience at Rikers, the turning points that set him on a new path, and his work in federal corrections and law enforcement. He provides insight into overcoming challenges, navigating misconceptions, and finding resilience #RikersIsland #FederalAgent #TrueCrime #RedemptionStory #LifeAfterPrison #LawEnforcement #SecondChances #UnlikelyJourney Thank you to our sponsors this week: My Bookie: Go to https://mybookie.website/LOCKEDIN and use promo code LOCKEDIN to double your bankroll with a 100% deposit bonus right from the jump. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Jeff Feller: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffrey-feller-b96b271a9/ https://fellerinvestigations.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Introduction and Injury Update 00:07:10 The Surveillance Begins 00:13:16 Journey of Reconciliation 00:20:00 Military Experiences and Early Leadership 00:26:28 A Summer Incident: Trouble and Misunderstanding 00:33:09 Navigating the Justice System 00:40:03 The Importance of Forensic Science in Law Enforcement 00:46:05 Transitioning to a Career in Law Enforcement 00:52:36 Life as a Federal Correctional Officer 00:58:50 Rejoining the Military After a Break 01:05:21 Transition from Military to Air Marshal 01:12:15 Life as an Air Marshal: From Call to Flight 01:18:35 Air Marshal Shooting Precision 01:25:06 The Role and Responsibilities of Air Marshals 01:30:18 The Role of Retired Contractors in Law Enforcement Transport 01:37:23 The Monetary Influence on the Justice System Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How many discounts does USAA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount. Safe driver discount. New vehicle discount. Storage discount. How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usa.com slash auto discounts. Restrictions apply. We're almost halfway through the year,

and a lot of people are running on empty without fully realizing it. Grow therapy helps you find care that's covered by insurance before burnout becomes the baseline. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around. They connect you with thousands of independent licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability,

and get started in as little as two days. And if something comes up, you can cancel up to 24 hours in advance at no cost. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments, you just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. Sessions average about $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0, depending on their plan.

Visit growth therapy.com slash book now to get started. That's growth therapy.com slash book now. Growtherapy.com slash book now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Jeff, welcome to Lockton, man. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. You had an injury over the summer, but you're here now.

You're good. But I think I just found out the real reason was the weather. You needed to be a little cooler out here before you came out. 100%. You know, it did slow me down. I like to come back to my roots to New York, at least in the summer, Yankee game, stuff. But unfortunately, I had an injury, but I'm here now. Yeah, with gifts.

You got this awesome. Explain what you just explained to me outside in there, why you, the representation of this for me. Great. And it's a good correlation because of where you came from and then where I came from. So that's a handcuff from Fliowa, which is a federal law enforcement officers association, kind of a makeshift union where it fights for our rights, but we're not technically a bargaining unit as a federal agent. That's my last job before I retired. But I'm still a member of Fliowa as a retiree.

And it's a handcuff slash coin. And since you were in the BOP, they actually represent the BOP of the officers and stuff of that nature. So it was a great correlation. And it's a handcuff to let you know where you were from or came from and you never want to be. And I just think it's a good fit for you. everyone, it's Ian, and I wanted to take a second to say thank you for supporting this podcast.

Remember leaving likes and comments on YouTube and reviews on Spotify and Apple, and even sharing your favorite episodes on social media and two friends help tremendously and are a huge way to support the show. Also, if you're interested in coming on the podcast to share your story, you could fill out the online forum at Ian Bick.com, and I will respond to you personally. Now, before we get further into this episode, I wanted to shout out MyBooky for sponsoring today's show. MyBooky is an online sports book with live betting. Get started today by going to mybooky.

com.com. Locked in and use promo code locked in to double your bankroll with a 100% deposit bonus right from the jump. That's more money, more power to make winning plays. And you gave me a nice shirt too. Yep. It represents my private investigation company, fellow investigations. out of Southern California, which if you need a private eye, I'm your guy. That's my slogan.

And, yeah, on my little website, even, have the song, the Private Eye song. So, yeah, I got bored after retirement as a federal agent, and I studied, like I was telling you, I studied as I was traveling around the country with my wife. And I says, I'm going to do this private investigations thing. and I had enough hours where I qualified to sit down and take the test, but I still had a study. It was a pretty tough test to become a certified California, a private investigator, knocked it out, and, yeah, we'll segue into how, you know, I guess we could go backwards, where now I'm a private eye, and it was kind of cutthrow because I just,

because I always work for the man from the military, different forms of law enforcement. We'll talk about the different law enforcement jobs I had. And then so I was always a W-2 person, never owned a small business, but now I'm more 1099-ish. And how to learn that form of it. So after I passed the test, I'm like, okay, what do I do now? And so I started buying some PI equipment, some cool stuff. And I started calling around to a lot of PIs. I would kind of do my due diligence and help them and figure out their reviews.

And I kept getting the, yeah, I'll get back to you. I said, hey, I'll work for you for six months for free. I just want to learn the business. That's it. And I, again, got the runaround. And finally, just one night, I went on goaddy.com. And I'm not a computer geekish type of guy. Nothing wrong with them.

but I form my own website, fellowinvestigation.com. Literally, within that week, I started getting phone calls and I just figured out, you know what? I played by the rules so many years,

you know, crossed the T's, you know, dotted the eyes, you know, like I'm that guy five minutes early. I was like, you know what?

I'll fake until I make it and I started taking on cases. And I just had to learn as I did them and it's been pretty, successful, my knack, and I'm not going to get into the whole injury thing, but I was actually doing an investigation, technical counter surveillance measures. It's called TCSM debugging houses. I kind of have a specialty in that. I learned it kind of through some military training,

how we used to have to debug hotel rooms for generals prior to them coming in there for electronic devices in overseas countries. So kind of got into that. But I do. variety. I do everything from, you know, domestic cases where it's following the husband, following the wife, yada, yada, yada, yada. You know, I'm going to talk about one case, and then we're going to move on to other things. It's a very interesting case. It was my second case. Gentleman calls me up. Mid-40s, gentleman,

ranch kookamonga, and that's where I live in Southern Cowan now in the ranch kukumanga area. he, you know, says, I think my wife's cheating on me, you know, so I'm taking the intake. And again, this is my second case. So I'm kind of, okay, why do you think, you know, why do you think she's cheating? And, you know, well, she's been going away on these weekend trips with her girlfriends every other weekend. And so I said, so one thing let's do another thing. He goes, this is a Thursday.

And he goes, you know, she's leaving. tomorrow Friday, he goes, I know what hotel she's going to be out because she used out credit card and she booked the room. So I was like, okay. So she gets off work at such a time. So I loosely follow her out there. I take the case. I loosely follow her out there to the hotel.

She checks in. When I say loosely, I didn't have to be right behind. I kind of knew where the destination was going to be. So I have that. But we were on the same shit of music. So follow her out to the hotel. She checks in. I'm hanging out in the lobby area, not doing too much.

much and I said she's probably just doing like a spa weekend with the girls or something like that and she's dressed like business casual secretary school teacher ish and I said yeah I said this dude he's just you know and sure enough she comes out about 20 minutes later pretty you know um I guess we'll go PG 13 but pretty hoochy mama type of clothes on and and provocative in nature, slutty-ish. And I said, oh, shit, maybe it is going down. So she valet parked. I self-parked, and I learned that.

I was like, this way, I don't have to wait for my car. And I waited for her, followed her. And it was about 10 minutes from the location of the hotel to the, which come to find out, it was a swing club. Yeah. And I learned a lot about protocol on that day with the swing club and how they function. So, so again, I loosely follow, well, I was following her, actually. I was doing, I was doing pretty tight surveillance because I didn't know where she was going at that point.

So it was about 10 minutes away and it was an industrial area. I'm going to fast forward because, you know, I get to the location and she goes up in an elevator. and I see what floor she gets off. So I didn't follow her in an elevator. I see what floor she gets off. And it's kind of like the studio here where you come up and you get off the elevator and it's like doors are locked, doors are open.

So the one door that's open, I hear the music. So I went towards that. I hear the music going. And so I opened up the door. And it's a pretty big-sized dude wearing a suit that probably hasn't fit him since his by-mitzvah. and I said to him, I says, hey, I'm here for the party.

He goes, yeah, what's your code? I didn't know. So at that time, you know, again, I'm a retired federal agent. I had some cash on me and I pull out my wallet and I says, is this good enough for a code? And sure enough, that was good enough for a code for the night. So I gave him some cash. Get into this party. I'm not really fitting exactly because.

it seemed like a lot of people knew each other, so I kind of go to the bar. This is where I learned about the protocol. So I was like, all right, everybody's drinking. Let me grab a drink. So I said, let me get vodka and cranberry. I just generic drink. And they were like, well, which one's your vodka? And I was like, again, I'm going to kind of fast while.

I was like, what do you mean? I didn't know you bring your own bottle or something like that. And I was like, oh. And then I was like, that great goose. So that happened to be in my bottle. I guess I jacked someone's great goose. So how to drink there, and I guess they pour the cranberry juice or whatever. So blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Again, initially I was like, this guy might be, you know, fabricating this or it's all in his head. And then fast forward within 20 minutes later, two guys simultaneously. That's all I got to say. I'm going to leave it at that. I got all my evidence probably within two hours. I was paid for the whole weekend. Again, fast forward Monday. So I had glasses on that record.

So let me just back up a little bit. So I did some research about this club. I'm like, this is during COVID. Nobody's wearing masks. I didn't even see too much conscious, you know, like protection, okay? Which was really weird to me, really, really, really. weird to me. But come to find out this was an exclusive upscale, like Swingers kind of community.

That code, after I found out, I guess you pay your money via that way, you know, whether it's some dark webs type of stuff. And then you have to upload your current STD check tests. So I guess they were pretty cautious. But obviously, I didn't partake. I was there professionally in a business manner. and but I could have violated the integrity of that whole process.

That's that's one point, you know, with that whole, you know, checking. But that's kind of irrelevant, but it would, it tripped me out. So now we fast forward Monday, download all the information, all the evidence, show the dude. And I said, you know, disclaim it before that. I said, you sure you're going to want to see what I'm going to show you? And he agreed. You know, all I do is I bring evidence to people.

What you do with it is what you do with it. And as he saw the visualization of what I was able to record, yeah, he didn't take it to, you know, basically he was like, those are the lips that she kisses my kids with. And I was just like, you know, I don't know what to say. I didn't know what to say. you know, as a grown man, you know, like, I'm not into, you know, I'm not a counselor, dude, you know what I'm saying? Like, I just got the evidence. So that's a one, there's been so many boring cases in, I'm telling you, like,

workers' comp, you're just sitting there. And you know what? Sometimes the guy is really hurt and he's inside watching cartoons eating Cheerios, and that's what he is or her. And then I got some good cases, but for the PI-ish, you know, for time constraints, you know, that was a juicy one. And it was my second case. So that brought me into the PI where I was like, wow, they're all going to be like this.

And no, there's been very far and few of those. Do you ever find out why the woman cheat or the men cheat in those scenarios, like the psychology behind it at all? Because you are a former federal agent, so I'm sure you look into that rather than some PIs that might not even care. You know, not really. You know, men being men, I know what we do. Again, you know, we're not the best. You know, but we do have, you know, we have men of integrity.

And women, I don't know. They could be a nymphomaniac for all I know. You know, that's just their thing. So I'm going to go right back to it. So I forgot all about this dude. About eight months later, get the call. And, you know, we went through counseling. We reconciled, yada, yada, yada, yada.

But she's dipping out again, kind of. Like she's at the gym for four. hours, you know, type of thing. And I'm like, and I told them, I told them. And again, I'm in a better situation. That's why my prices are pretty, I'm not, it's not really to promote it. Very reasonable. Because I'm retired law enforcement, or I'm retired military.

I get pensions, you know, coming in left and right. So I'm good. So my fees alone, I'm not there. I do it more as a great retirement hobby job, you know, type of thing. I do it when I want to. So I was like, I mean, I can take your business. and I could do surveillance on her. I said, we're probably going to come up with somewhere of the right outcome.

It might not be as soon as I got it quick that. Like, it really never gets that quick where you get a cheating spouse or something like that. It usually takes a few times. And this was a weekend gig, and he wound up still paying me, even though I was pretty much done after that Friday night. And I was only like an hour from my house, but he paid for a hotel. So getting back to your initial question, Ian, about the psychology. Shoot, man.

Like anywhere, it could be anywhere from just, I don't know, guys just want something new, strange. I don't know. And then on the women, it's just from a nymphomaniac to just it's dull. But, you know, yeah, I'm not an expert in that. know, you know, people do weird things for weird reasons. I just think if you're going to cheat, you should just leave the relationship. Or come up with, you know, like a mutual understanding or something like that. But, yeah, at least give them the respect, you know, in that situation, you know, and then he takes her back, you know, if she is, like, you know, I guess he said they went through counseling and, but obviously she was still doing some characteristics that.

were not within the whole, you know, marriage committed type of scenario. So, again, don't know. I wish I did. You know what? I'd probably make a lot of money if I could figure that out, you know. Meta from Mars, women from Venus. We still haven't come into that, you know, same thing. You know, things are different now, you know, and you could switch over.

And that's a whole different animal. But, you know, it's interesting you're in like your fifth or six act kind of of life because you've been through like so many different stages. And I feel like I relate to that a lot just on a different level. And, you know, going to stage one, did you grow up in New York? I did. I grew up in Queens of New York neighborhood called Glen Oaks. Bell Rose, Glen Oaks. Pretty middle class, lower to middle class.

You know, some people had more than others. A lot of single family, single mom homes type of scenarios. I had a stepdad in my life. Some people had real dad. Some people had stepdad. You know, it was pretty normal-ish. You know, the whole... You grow up quick, though, in my neighborhood.

You do grow up quick. And we were very diversified from... You know, I mean, the majority was probably white, but, you know, white, Puerto Rican, Asian, black, you know, Hispanic, you know, from Puerto Rican to Dominicans to, you know, it's just everything, you know, all across the whole spectrum. So I'm glad that I grew up like that, showed me a lot of diversity. Did you guys grow up, like poor, middle class, upper class? You know, I'd say, I'd say middle-classish, like, meaning that we didn't really want for anything. However, I learned at an early age, though. If I wanted what I wanted, like, my own type of style gene, yeah, my mom would get me maybe Wranglers,

but if I wanted something stylish, I had to go buy my own stuff, and I was good with that. I had a paperout. I hustled, my work ethic, you know, and even, starting at 14 and playing sports. I still worked almost full time. So, yeah, it was pretty, we didn't need anything as far as food and we would get clothes, but if it was the type of clothes I wanted and, you know, it got to the point, like, even at the young age, I paid for, like, if I wanted to go roll skating, I pay for more

on roll skating. This way, I didn't have to ask my parents for anything. I like that, you know. Some people are more, you know, like allowances and giving in their family. I didn't really ask for much. Were you ever bullied or picked on or were you a bully at any point? Or were you kind of just like a normal average kid didn't really have any issues? You know, that's a great question.

So I was actually until I don't know what I don't know what brought me like exposed everything and brought me out of this shell. but almost borderline introverted. Like, I mean, socially, you know, yeah, I socialize and I had friends. But I was a little more shy. Could have been more self-conscious. Not necessarily bullied. If I did get my ass beat, it was because I deserved it. It wasn't because I was bullied.

It would be like, hey, let me borrow your bike for 10 minutes and I take it for a day. You know, I deserved it. And you know what? If I would have had, and I did have older brothers, they should have whip my They asked more, would it made me tougher? And that's going to bring me to, I have some mentors that actually, they're kind of neighborhood-ish mentors that, and they had rough pass, and they could have been borderline gangses, drug deal, but they turned out to be very successful. And I looked up to them more than sometimes my older brothers. I wish they would have stepped in and been a little more aggressive, you know, just kind of let me do what I want to do.

So again, back then, no, I wasn't really. bullied. Kids would be kids. Would I bullying anybody? No, not really. You know, once in a while I would like give a kid a wedgy, you know, as a young age. You know, nothing. No.

And then fast forwarding, you know, when I got to the military, because, you know, when I got into the military, it was basically I went straight to war where it was like zero to 100, literally. And so it was like, and if you could survive in that, you know, you could survive anyway. And I was still young. And I learned how to be kind of a little. leader at a young age in a hostile environment. And I think Queens set me up to be, you know, for success in that because, you know,

things weren't given to you. You know, we had knuckleheads and then we're going to get back to the issue where I got into trouble. Again, I could have used a lot more guidance from the household. Like in the household, it would be more like if I got trouble, I would definitely hear about it. If I did some good, you wouldn't really hear much about it. And again, not getting it.

into it, let him rest in peace, but like the stepdad role that, um, you know, it was kind of like that stereotypical back then, you know, like his kids could do no wrong and then, you know, I couldn't do no good. So did I get past that hell? Yeah, I got past that shit. You know what saying? So, um... The aggression thing's really interesting because, you know, I just made me think if I was like, you know, had an older brother or someone that kind of like taught me to be aggressive, I would I had a totally different experience in, like, prison in general. Like, just, you know, like, I was obviously picked on and did karate and stuff and bullied, but that was at a younger age.

If I was, like, had an aggressive older brother in high school and played sports and stuff, I would have been, I think, a lot tougher physically. Yeah. And I think that's what brought out of me. The competitiveness did play a lot of competitive sports. And I'll get here to that where I had an opportunity, even though I had a rough patch in high school, meaning a lot of my friends were dropping out and I was trying to stay in the game.

And again, going back to my neighborhood, it wasn't like gangs or anything like that, but we did have neighborhood cliqueish posseys or whatever you want to call it back in those days. And my high school was kind of a little bit out of my jurisdiction. I went there. And so it was not my neighborhood kids. It was like other neighbors where you could have some issues there

within the neighborhood rival type of posseys. Again, I had a friend of mine that he also went there. He wound up staying in there. And like if him and I were there, we had each other's back like 100%. But, you know, there came a time where it was getting a little rough, you know, just it was a hostile environment sometimes going to school. So you had to kind of watch your back just because of the location where the school was at. And yeah, it would have been a smoother pass. It's kind of like when you ask about, you know, living in California.

It's just such a smoother path than just the hustle-bustle growing up in New York. Like, my friend let me borrow his car and I jump in and it's different, you know, driving, even though it's crazy out in Southern Cal and this is that. I'm just driving, you know, I get like people like honking and flipping me off here. I just like, oh, back to this, you know. And I get it. And I've driven in all kind of environments from overseas. Iraq to California to, you know, Mexico.

I've driven, you know, all across Mexico and Canada and Europe. Yeah, so, yeah, I did the auto bomb. Yeah, that was pretty cool. You go pretty fast. Let's take a quick break to talk sports. 2004 has been a wild ride, kind of like expecting an early release but getting hit with extra time instead. Luckily, with my bookie, there are no unexpected twists, just straight up action.

where you're in charge. Thinking about trying another sports book, that's like taking legal advice from a sellmate. With MyBook, you're betting on a solid platform that's got your back every step of the way. If you know your football and love the thrill of winning, my bookie is your go-to. Here's a pro tip to sharpen your game. Teams with powerhouse offensive lines are dominating the run game this season. So betting those unders can feel like easy cash.

pair that with MyBooky's risk-free Thursdays, and you're set to score even quicker than I could get out of bed and club fed. Bet on anything, anytime, anywhere with My Booky, the sportsbook that keeps you in control, and ensures you're cashing in on every moment. So if you're new to the game and not sure where to start, MyBooky has you covered. Step up, go to MyBooky.com website slash locked in and use promo code locked in to double your bankroll with a 100.000. percent deposit bonus right from the jump. That's more money, more power to make winning plays. If you've been betting with MyBooky already, they've got something to share with you, too. With MyBooky Plus, the new loyalty rewards program, you can now earn extra cash just for doing what you do.

More plays, more wins, more cash in your account, no strings attached. When you got into trouble, was that before the military or was that after? It was before the military. Okay. Can you tell us about that? was that in high school? Yeah, so it was, so I had opportunity somehow to play college basketball. And I come back, and that was a gift right there from God, which I kind of ruined it,

and I lost the opportunity. So I come back to Queens from Utah. We'll just start out there. And hanging out with some of the same old knuckleheads. I'm trying to get a job. I don't know what I'm going to do. But I went to school very early. I was very immature.

So I'm in my freshman year of college. I'm still 17 throughout the whole freshman, like, first semester. And I didn't turn 18 until the end of November. And irrelevant. But I'm still kind of young. I'm in Utah from New York City. And it was different. And I'm just trying to adjust.

And I sell that. So it did not work out. Cool. Made a mistake. Came back. I was going to go to junior college here. And then I was getting some offers and some opportunities to play at some junior colleges and whatever. I'm hanging out with like knuckleheads, though. When I say knuckleheads, that's just very loose. We had some good, some of those kids turned out to be very well and others, whatever, everything. Very diverse area. and I was just in a scenario, so we're going to get into where I got in trouble. It's the summer when I come home from college. And so I'm 18 now. I think so. Yeah, I turn 18.

So somebody is just another, somebody not from my neighbor is breaking into a car. I address the situation. Again, I will take responsibility. I always take responsibility, Ian. and, you know, I have integrity with that. So I did address the situation very minorly, you know, like, but I think the individual got the point. Cool.

We're 18. We drop in my car. We go down, we're hanging out at the park, go down to grab some beers at the corner store, and all of a sudden we see somebody else, and we're telling them the story, and this and that. And one thing led to another,

but like, oh, and there goes the kid that was just breaking into the car. It went really south after that. But I had nothing to do with it.

But again, hence my car was there. I initiated somehow. My name got caught up in the mix. And that person, and somebody was held accountable. That person was in very bad shape after that.

And I had nothing to do with that. Again, and I think, through the justice system. So then, so this is like, like I said, the beginning of summer,

like let's just say June 1st. Okay, I forget all about it. Now I'm still, again, I told you I was being a knucklehead, right? And I'm like,

and I was terrible at it, but I'm like writing graffiti with my friends, we're doing, you know, stuff and, you know, I'm still trying to figure out

what the hell I'm going to do or going to do. And so we're playing stickball in the back of my house, whatever, and my mom drives by, and she's about to go, she's on the way to Atlantic City. This is Labor Day weekend. This is all the way.

So that happened, that incident happened like June 1st, literally. And I fast forward, and it's like Labor Day weekend. We're playing stickball. My mom's about to go to Atlantic City. So it's like a Friday. And then she says, oh, by the way, some detective came by and was looking for you. So I'm with a couple of my buddies And ironically, I think I was with one of them last night

And I was like, were you there playing stickball When my mom came by? And I think he recalled it, blah, blah, blah. And we thought it was like over some graffiti stuff. It was like something very minor. We go to my car, we clean it out with pay. We drive down to the precinct. Me and my buddies drive down in the precinct.

And again, I was always that responsible. I always had a driver's license, which got me in trouble a lot of things because I always had a car, always paid for my own car. cool, whatever. All right. There's no pity party or anything like that because I, you know, like my kids,

they get cars given to them and stuff like that. I had to earn it, you know, whatever. That was a quick little segue. But so at the precinct now, at the 105th precinct in my neighborhood, and then I go upstairs and I was like, hey, some detective. I'm not going to mention his name, but I still remember his name. You know, it was pretty, it was looking for me. The death sergeant was like, yeah,

he's upstairs and your friends got to wait down here whatever so i get up there knock on the door and i was like um he was like come in you know old detective sergeant old school dude and um oh are you you know you jeff feller and i was like yes sir you know i was like i thought it was over and but then i look at it said something like homicide and so one thing led to another again I'm going to fast forward I never left that precinct they booked me for

attempted murder and because the guy was at that point was still in a coma or something or I don't know he was like still treading water whatever wound up living and I think he you know actually recovered totally whatever

you know I had nothing to do with that again I'm 54 years old now I could you know, really, you know, like, and somebody somehow believed me, but at that time, I get it through law enforcement and the interrogation was really weird. I'm not going to get into all that, but it was kind of like, it was old school police work, you know, and so, you know, learning what I know now, you know, I didn't know nothing about it. So I, and I never wanted to be a cut.

So I wasn't one of those guys that even though I wound up my whole adult career being in law enforcement. I never wanted to be a cop at all. I want to be like an electrician. And, you know, if that's what I didn't work out, I wanted to do, like, I was like more carpentry, electrician type of stuff like that. But how did you even get accused of being in that? Like, were you in the area or something? I sure was.

Okay. So, like, my car pulls up at that corner store, liquor store, beer store, whatever. We call them bodegas. And so my license plate there. And so somebody saw. Like my license plate, me with the other person that, you know, did what they did. And so they somehow, somehow, somehow it got all tied together. And again, I guess they probably did their due diligence and asked around about it.

I guess word got out. But my car, it somehow surfaced because of my car. And it somehow surfaced. And I got IDed by another witness. that they brought in. And next thing you know, again, my mom was off for the weekend.

So I went from the 105th precinct to like, I think it was like Queen Central booking. And then, and then so I'm in there and in there for like two, three days. And, you know, I'm like,

I'm just like, I was real skinny then, you know, and they take your shoe string. I was wearing, like I came from playing stickball. I'm wearing like, like sweatpants shorts with the string in it.

They make you take that for like suicide reasons. So I'm like trying to hold up my shit. I'm in there. You're in there with a, even though I'm accused of pretty hardcore, you know, charges. I'm in there anywhere from like it could be somebody urinating on the sidewalk

to murder, you know, like you're in there with everybody in the bullpens. So I go through the system and I'm like, this shit is all new to me, you know. And I'm backing up, though, I did have a time where, as a juvenile, I almost went to a place called Spoffer, but that got all squashed too. So I had my, you know, like I was just one of them kids, though, but I kind of had a barometer where I knew where to stop. And this situation where I'm in, fast forward, I ended up at Rikers Island for six days until I could finally get bailed out and yada, yada.

so I go through the system. But somebody in there saw me from, believe or not, basketball has opened up doors and saved me in different ways. It's kind of weird. That pumpkin-looking spear. And so somebody said, hey, did you play with me at, you know, some flushing boys? I'm like, yeah, that was me. And it really was.

And he was like, oh, man, you know, next thing he knows, like, you know, that white boy's cool and shit like that. And I was like, not really called blonde, but I still stayed at myself. Like it was like really weird like that wasn't my environment. I learned real quick in and then we'll get past that somehow through the grace of God and and a bunch and in the hemisphere and however you want to look at it. I'm more of a spiritual guy anyway. Even though I was raised Jewish by misfit.

I'm just more of like a Jews for Jesus spiritual type of. guy, so I'll put that out there. You know, I just somehow, again, I was able to, the charges got dismissed and they should have. But how many people are incarcerated and, you know, not really, I'm going to say falsely or some, you know,

like they don't really need to, you know, some, the sentencing guidelines sometimes, you know, and we're one of the better criminal justice systems in the world, but we're still not there. They make mistakes. They do. And somehow the Queens district attorney, not the assistant, somehow read my case and somehow was able to dismiss it.

And I got my, you know, prints back. But so fast forward. And when I, I didn't want to go into law enforcement. Matter of fact, when I first went in the military, I was not in law enforcement at all in the military. I was doing what I wanted to do. I was working on planes as an avionics guy, which was fun in the Navy.

It was hard work, but it was fun. Making sure the electronics on the planes were all functioning and working. You've got to be one of the only, like, non-corrupt law enforcement officers that have spent time in prison. Yes. Because normally they go to prison after they do something to corruption. You went to prison first, and that became law enforcement. Absolutely.

And you know what? and no judgment at all, but I will tell you this. Betraying the badge is something that I have some heartburn about. Once you cross over to that level, if you're going to be in law enforcement and swear in, I take that to heart. And that I look at the camera and I really mean that.

And those that did what they did, even in my job, it happened. It just tarnishes that badge. with the trust of the community. And I'm not trying to be, you know, it just, the hypocrisy is real in that. And if you're going to be a thug, I respect you more if you're just a thug. If you're going to be, you know, law enforcement officer,

you're going to be a law enforcement officer. Like there's, like, and I had opportunities in different things when I was in corrections, you know, you know, it could be for $5 or $5 million. I'm not budging. I'm not budging. That's all there is to it. Do you think having that perspective of being on the other side, the negative side of the criminal justice system, helped you do your job better later on when you're in law enforcement?

Like, not everyone gets that perspective, and it's, you know, the saying, walk a mile on the other person's shoes. So you got to live in those shoes. A hundred percent in. I remember one time I pulled over somebody and I was in L.A. This is when I was a cop. And this is before the whole legalization of marijuana and stuff like that. This might have been like $98, $99. And somehow I'll jump into which portions of law enforcement I did and when.

But my partner, so we see Roach in the car and it smells like marijuana. And, you know, he really wanted to put him through the whole system, send him in L.A. County jail. And, you know, one thing led to another. I was like, I put on it aside. I said, I got your back if you want to do that. You know, whatever, you know, like, meaning, you know, it is legit. Because there's different ways you could do marijuana even back then.

If it was going to be a health and safety code or if it was going to go criminal and whatever. But, you know, I was like, maybe we could just cite and release and, you know, or give a warning. You know, like, so my partner saw on my side and I think I was able to. to, you know, persuade them a little bit, you know, but if, you know, the book says this, you know, and I get it, you have to have laws. You have to have laws to paint between the lines. Like if the speed limit, there was no speed limit, you'd be the same person that would be complaining, like, why don't they have a speed limit, you know what I'm saying?

But then if you get pulled over, you're like, hey, everybody else is doing 80 miles now. Well, you just have to be one that got caught. I'm sorry, you know. And I hate the word, say that word, sorry. It's such a cliche, but in that scenario, it is what it is. You know, so, yeah, going back to that, yeah, because I had a little running with the law, it might have made me, you know, that more of a, you know, law enforcement officer that had, was able to use judgment or make decisions that there's letter of law,

spirit of law and is the way you interpret it and what you do with it. And are you also taking more caution making sure you have the right guy as someone that was falsely accused of something? Because that's very real. I mean, you see all these cases unraveling from that period of time where they had the wrong guy. 100%. And, you know, forensic science, you know, from DNA and stuff like that has come into place so much since then and um to releasing people and actually um

I know personally an officer it kind of incarcerated him from back in the days and this is um um yeah he was he was a cop with me on I was on night shift he was on day shift and um

yeah it incarcerated him because of DNA um what he did at um back in the day and sometimes cops slipped through the crack you know, where they weren't incarcerated or their printer in the system or DNA was in the system. But so it goes both ways. That could come back.

Now, you know, that could come back. And now that your DNA's in the system, it could come back and bite you too. But, you know, if you have nothing to worry about it. It's kind of like saying a lie. Like if you tell the truth, you have to think about it and like over and over again. You know, that lie you're going to have to think about. So, yeah, I think that, but getting back to what you said, like when warrants would pop up on people, I wanted to verify him because there is some, a clerk could have did something wrong. So you don't just treat it like it's, you know, a felony stop type of situation just because they got a warrant pops up.

You want to verify that. You know, that's like anything in this world, trust, verify. You know what I'm saying? So tell us how you can. got into the military after that after you came back from college did you drop out of college at one point and then switch to the military and why did you make that decision yeah um yeah that's a great segue so yeah so things didn't work out so um you know i was just um i was in a very transitional time i had some opportunities where i could have got some pretty good jobs i was going to maybe try

and get into one of the unions um or go back to junior college but um um One thing led to another, and I talked to a recruiter, and in that stage of my life, that was, like, the best fit. And I will say the Gulf War was starting to grow up in 1990, and that's kind of when I went in. So I was a little older, and a little more experienced, but we had a dude was a lot older than me in boot camp. So I actually decided to, no pun intended, jump ship out. The Navy was the best fit.

And somehow nobody guided me, but I was able to get some due diligence and research what I wanted to do and what job and everything kind of fit. And so I went to the military. And I did have some rocky times there, you know, in the beginning, adjusting to military life, so to speak. Everything worked out. Everything worked out. Got honorable discharge. did my four years.

My son was born in 93. So, and he was living in California. So again, then this is going to get into how I got to law enforcement. At that time, it was kind of a recession going on. There wasn't a lot of places I was putting it for all kind of jobs that that were affiliated with my military. I didn't join the reserves. I was automatically in the inactive reserves at that time. So I had a little break from the military.

again, and then I'm going to spin it to how I wound up doing 24 years in the military, even simultaneously as a law enforcement officer in the civilian world. So 93, 94, I get out, recession. So nobody's really hiring what I did in the military. I took the test for NYPD down in. I was stationed in Virginia at the time, and I passed that. I was like, whatever. I didn't even like really, I guess they called the Master's Arms in the Navy,

which wasn't really crazy about it because we used to work hard and be on the ship. And then, you know, we play out, you know, roll out dice and play our cards. And they'd walk around like the walk in the beats in New York, like if we were gambling. And I guess from back in the days, like some people got to some trouble for gambling because throwing off the ship, those are some rumors. I don't know. I can't, you know, you'd hear about it. So that's why.

So we'd have to put our little money in like a shoebox off to the side if we were rolling our dice and stuff. But we'd have fun when we got off, you know, just on wine. And I'll tell you what, party people, your taxpaying dollars are paid well for the United States Navy because we do work hard. That's hands down. My work ethic comes from the Navy, I'm telling you. When we're out to sea in, I'm telling you. And that's why it's great. You have somebody that cooks your food, does your laundry, does it.

Because whatever job you do, you are doing it. You know, 12 to 13 to 14. Like, I was avionics. And those, especially during time of war, those planes had to be ready to go at all times 100%. And it's funny. I saw somebody getting a lot of trouble for, like, you know, I don't know how this is going to slide in there, but, like, paying attention to detail.

and little things that you would think, like, and that's the whole thing with transitioning to being a civilian and military, but like a guy, but this is aviation in general. He lost a screwdriver on my ship that was fixing a plane. That plane couldn't fly until that screwdriver was found, and he got sent to the break for that because he couldn't find that, you know, so the penalties are very strict. That's a quick segue, and I was like, I learned real quick.

pay attention, detail, and make sure you know where all your tools are at all time. Because when they take really strict action on that, versus if you're just an electrician here on, you know, fixing, you know, your studio, and the guy loses a screwdriver, no harm, no foul. There's different consequences in different scenarios. It's kind of like sentencing guidelines between state court and federal court, you know? It's like completely different. Apples and oranges.

And I work both scenarios. And again, we'll get into where I was a correction officer for Bureau of Prisons at one point. So where we at? Real me back in. So you end up becoming a cop. Yeah. You decide to – why did you decide to become a cop? Because you couldn't find other work in your field?

I couldn't. So you land in New York City as a cop? No. So I took the test, passed a test. In New York, you passed a test. Yeah. Okay. And then one thing led to know that I'm not going to really get into all the dynamics that

that, but because my son was born, I went out to the West Coast because I wanted to raise my son. And before you know it, next to the day I know, I have a daughter. So I have a son and daughter. Now I get into law enforcement. I got into corrections on the state level first. In California. In California. Again, that's all I was hiring.

So I was an honorable veteran. It was, you know, easy to get in. It's kind of paramilitary. in law enforcement. So again, so now I'm in corrections, and then I get a cop job, police officer. I do that for a little bit. So I went through Corrections Academy, Police Academy.

We're going to talk about all the academies I went through. How long were you in corrections for in California? And where did they have you? What kind of prisons? It was with the youth. I was actually working with the Youth Authority, and I was actually pretty cool. which was great because I was very young, just out of military.

It was a boot camp style. So you work one week and you're off one week. But when you work that week, you're there living with them. And those kids, they didn't do a lot more than what I did growing up in Queens. Again, they just got caught or the system, you know, whatever. And some of them, you know, they did, you know, it was wild. And you'd have kids from the hood in L.A. to the hood in Oakland, you know, because all California is the worst of the worst.

So I did that for a couple of years, got into police. While I was doing that, remember I told you, I had some issues with college, went back, never ever failed a class in college again, and I got my degree, and I became, I got into probation. So now I went from correction officer, police officer, and probation was. something that I really wanted to do. Looking to start 2026 with an unforgettable getaway. Fiji Airways sale is on now. Fly nonstop round trip to Fiji from just 748.

Or enjoy a sunny Fiji stopover on your way to Australia with roundtrip fairs starting from 839. As a one world alliance member and American Airlines Advantage program partner, your miles go further across the South Pacific. Book now at Fiji Airways.com or contact your local travel agent. Conditions apply. This June. the world comes to Los Angeles.

Kick off FIFA World Cup 2026 at the FIFA fan festival at the iconic Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Watch matches live on Giant Scream. Feel every goal with thousands of fans and celebrate with music, culture, and flavors from around the world. Join us June 11th through 14th opening weekend as the tournament kicks off in Los Angeles. Tickets are just $10 and kids under 12 are free. Get yours now at Los Angeles FWC26.com. I took a pay cut from a cop, and you had to have your degree. Yeah, normally people don't go from cop to probation.

That's normally the other way around, if at all. Normally, they can't even get to the cop level. Right. I did. I did. And then this is going to trip you out, too. Hold on. Before I became the probation officer, guess what I did?

I went back to being a correction officer because I wanted to get back into the Fed system. And so I got into Bureau of prisons. And then I finished up. That was when I was, so I worked at, so I worked for, I was the correction officer for a facility similar to where you were at. How long were you in an LAPD cop for? No. So when I was L.A., it was L.A. It was L.A.D. which it's, it's great question. It's, it's, it's, we basically were kind of peace officers in the state of California and then we've got to go through, we're federal too. So it's a, you go through two academies to be. You go through two academies to

become L-A-D-O-D. Oh, so is that kind of like a state CBI? Like some states have like... No, it's more for Department of Defense resources than personnel. But you're still a sworn officer. And is that technically a federal agent yet or no? No, it's a federal officer, though. Okay.

So I am in the Fed system there. And you're carrying a gun? Carrying a gun, arrest powers. What type of investigations? Or police work? Normal police work, law enforcement, that has to do with more so assets. of the military. But if you see somebody, I mean, I didn't do it,

but if you saw somebody, we had, like, we had citations where, you know, you know, you could cite people. And I did see some people going to and from places, and I did arrest, and we would arrest via LAPD and then bring it to their facilities. So we used them. Now, if it was a federal crime, then it would be like MDCLA, which would be, you know, so it was kind of,

very diverse, but so you interact a lot with LAPD because you're in their jurisdiction and L.A. sheriffs. And that's going to full speed later on. I worked with L.A. sheriffs a lot actually as an air marshal. So then you go to probation in the state after that? But through the county, it's the county in California. So California got 58 counties just for jeopardy purposes. And each county has their own probation department. Yeah, I just interviewed a probation person who is actually a former inmate turned probation officer. There you go. It was in the county.

And the county is way different than like a state probation officer or a federal probation officer. It is. It is. So we had very diverse in probate. So now I'm a, I'm working probation. How old are you? I'm like 30 years old.

So I went through corrections academy, police academy, times two. you had to go through two police academies with that federal job. And then probation has got kind of a makeshift academy. It's kind of, it's more classroom-ish. And then before that, I went to the Federal Correction Academy. So this is all before I went to the Air Marshal Academy. Now, federal corrections, you're our first federal correctional officer. Is it?

Yeah. No one wants to do it because they're still. active. I was actually talking to one in Danbury and he had to like talk to his union chief never got back to me or that. But a lot of people are fishy about talking about it or coming after coming on afterwards, you know?

Yeah. So what was that like? What prison were you at for the correctional? I was at FCC Victorville, which was I think a medium high. Now it's a whole complex there. They got a penitentiary. They got a medium high, medium low camp. And across the street

for a while, we did have campers that were females. And once in a while I had to go over there into the count, which it's a great segue. Then the men are a lot more hygienic than the females. Like it's distinct smell when you come in there and they're flashing tities

because, you know, they want to distract you and they're campers. So they're low, you know, but they could get, you know, they get into trouble there. and you get sent to a medium or a low or whatever. But whatever. I just had to go over there sometimes if they were short staff just to do a count. And it was very uncomfortable.

I didn't like it. So going back there, I was at, so I was at FCC Victorville. Okay, treat everybody with respect. I didn't put you in this place. The judge's jury sentencing put you in here. So I treated the inmates with respect and it was a two-way street. from, and that was, nobody even had to tell me that. It's, it's common sense.

You know, if you need toilet paper and you come to my CO, I'm going to give you toilet paper. Like, I'm not going to deprive you of that. Make sure that the safety and security institution is safe. And I'm going to talk to you with respect. Like, I used to see some other correction officers and I talk to them on the side. I mean, the way they talked to him, well, he's just an inmate. And I'm like, okay. And if shit hits the fan, I got your back, but they're coming for you first.

I'm just letting you know, you know, because the way you treat them and talk to them. You can't, like, you keep poking that bear, you know, like they're still human beings. I get it, you know. And then, you know, you got to kind of the chomoles and the, you know, the rapos. And, you know, you got to separate yourself from all that as far as you got to just, from fair consistency, it'll get you a long way, just like the word integrity will get you a long way, you know. Was there a lot of gang activity at the Ed Victorville back? then at the medium?

Actually, so it was a brand new facility, and we just opened it up. And so they were coming from all other. They were, so a lot of them were getting downgraded. They were in the penitentiaries, let's say, at different facilities, and they were happy because Victorville is closer to L.A. So you know how it is. You're spread out. Now they're closer.

They're going to be able to get visits. So we were starting to get a lot of the crack era, guys that were doing the tentations. 20 years on the conspiracies and all L we were getting a lot of L.A. base bloods, crypts. So it was, the gangs were involved in there too. They definitely were. So all that cliche and stereotypes about the Fed system, they got the same issues. Against other things are different, sentencing and what have you.

But our facility was brand new. You know, I was part of the activation staff. or whatever that's worth. How dangerous was it to work there as a federal officer in that time period? Were guards getting attacked? No. No. I would not not now, but I know when I left, there was some issues up there.

And I didn't leave because of that at all. It was the other extreme was I finished up, got my degree, and went out to probation. and then, which I really didn't want to because I was leaving the Fed system. I was accumulating so much time in federal law enforcement because even DODLA was accumulating my time. But I went over to the county. So, but as far as the question of the safety, it was kind of really, it was kind of boring. It was a boring. It was kind of boringish.

It just, I needed a little bit more. I didn't need to do like hardcore, like cop work kicking in. doors or anything like that, but it was just, it was kind of boring. Did you struggle in that role at all compared to your coworkers? And I asked that because from what I've seen, a lot of those correctional officers, they've kind of like plateaued or they don't want to go to a different level. But you seemed very ambitious. You were ready to go to that next level.

You didn't want to be there for long. You were just using it to get the hours under your belt. 100%. I thought I was going to be able to get in there and I want to be like a case manager. right away because that's what kind of what my degree was going into. Like the social work. And they were like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. They were like maybe at your 10th or 12th year you can become a counselor,

which basically you give out stamps and see if they're indigent type of, you don't do much as a counselor. So I saw what the counselors do. And then if you play golf with the war and you can become a case manager, you know, so I was like, oh. So I can't even have this conversation for like another 10 years. Right there I was looking for jobs. And then I was finishing up, like I said, getting my credits together and all that.

And then I got on. I got hired by probation. So we're going to transition there. So now I get hired by probation. And now this is, let me see the time frame. This is getting closest to 9-11. Okay. So this is June of 2001.

And how old are you back then? I am 31. And you have several agencies under your belt. Several agencies on my boat. A cop. Corrections, probation. Right. And let me transition real quick how to, like, as far as, so I told you got off active duty in 94, right?

So 95 spins around and I'm out of air show with my son. He's like two years old at the time. And I'm just kind of talking to this guy next to me, drinking beer with my son. And he's like, hey, everything about coming to. and we're at an Air Force base. And I landed out a lot of Air Force Base when I was in Navy. And I was like, they got it pretty good. You know, that's, you know, there's all different rumors with the different services.

And I was like, I was like, nah. I was like, I was in the Navy. And I'm a veteran. So, you know, I'm good. I did my four years, you know. And so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Two weeks later, I'm shipped. I'm getting, I'm back in the military.

and at the time this is going backwards a little bit so I was a correction so he was like oh I can bring you in as a Air Force cop I was all right cool whatever one week a month two weeks a year I'll do it next day no I'm down there and I'm going through like this army training shit

and I was like what did I get myself into because we all like the grunts of the Air Force the security forces which was a big segue and platform and then to get to the air marshals you know, how I was at beginning so quick, and it had a lot to do with the Air Force, and it did pave a lot of ways.

Best thing ever happened. Setting the reserves, like I said, I was a drilling reserves. It was still a lot more than one week and a month, two weeks a year. But that was pretty much, and then 9-11 hit. So at 9-11 hit, I was a probation.

I was working probation at the time. Right there, I had a cush job, and the county of San Bernardino where I live in is a huge county. I could have got anywhere. I happen to get, like, right there, at the courthouse by my house and everything was good. It was a Monday through Thursday, 10-hour shift. And at the time, I was sharing custody with my ex

and it was perfect for the kids situation. All right, 9-11 hits. I was taking a class. It was a Tuesday morning. I'm a reservist. I'm still doing pretty high-speed stuff in the reserves. I got into a couple of programs and we'll talk about it. I wasn't considered like what you call a tier one operator as far as, you know, special forces.

I was a special, you know, like a spec ops guy that coincide a lot with operators. I don't know. I just saw a movie real, or it was on Netflix. I guess I'm plugging it. Badland. What I did was kind of right on there where I was, I was, that Air Force guy mixed in with all those special forces. guy. So that's kind of what I did in the Air Force. But, um, so I was doing some high speed stuff in the Air Force. It was pretty cool. And I had a

collateral duty. Um, I was the anti-terrorism officer as assistant or whatever. So I didn't really do much to that. It was just kind of a collateral duty. And then 9-11 hits. I'm at a police academy taking a class for probation, just coincidentally. That class happens to be three to five miles from my base where I'm a reserve is at. So my phone's blowing up. And back then, you had the old flip phone or whatever. And I'm trying to be respectful.

I know 9-11 in, I'm tripping because my mom is working in Manhattan. Right before I left, I was like the first tower, you know, like went down. And I, you know, so different time, you know, because the three-hour time change, you know, different things, transaction.

But I still go to class. but it's on my mind. And I'm listening to this guy, and he's telling us about all this expertise he has in terrorism, which wasn't shit. But, you know, I'm in his class, so I got to listen to it. But I'm the anti-terrorism. So my guy that was the lead guy,

he was at Dynamics International Terrorism, like he was at a class in Florida. So now they call me up because shit hit the fan. and so somehow I get to the base and they're like, how the fuck did you get here so quick? I was like, well, I was at this training right up the block, so they're like, go home, get five days worth of like toiletries, uniforms. I got a room for you over here on base.

We got to set this up. We're going to, you know, back then, now it's called force protection conditions, but it used to be threat condition. We're in threat condition, Delta. Like, you're the only one knows how to set the parameters for that, you know. So I had to figure out the manning. So we went from literally on that base to having like 10 cops per shift to like 50 cops per shift, like guarding everything. You know, so my job got real important.

So I'm back on active duty that day. First time since 1994, I'm back on active duty. They swore me in and everything. Change my ID card. I'm like, shit, I went from civilian to military on that day. Pretty traumatic. And then because of what I was doing, so I got hour base situated. Then they kind of, then they deployed me.

Matter of fact, I was on a plane on September 13th already headed to go somewhere. That plane turned around because of some of the logistical stuff. So I didn't actually leave until September 20th. So I was already back on military. And again, there was no, there was an air marshal program. It was kind of. it's kind of weird how the Air Marshal program

went up and down on different terrorist attacks and stuff like that. So they still did have some and it was a program in place but not like how after 9-11 how they ramped it up. They, you know, it was a whole Department of Homeland Security

you know, got established, which is a cabinet level secretary, you know, on the politics side. So it's pretty, it's a whole brand new thing. The whole government got restructured because the em marshals used to be in a different capacity and they weren't really on domestic flights i'm not going to get into all that you know um and again as i mentioned you know a lot of stuff you know um it's not really top secret anymore as far as different you know techniques but

just for courtesy i'm not going to go into all like how we board and when we board and do we use rubber bullets which i still get that question which is retarded but uh excuse that word, but, you know, like, no, we use real bullets on, you know, on the plane, you know, there's no rubber bullets, you know. So how did you actually get recruited to becoming an air marshal if you were still active military? I'm glad you, see, I'm glad you reel me right back in. And then we'll get to the air marshal stuff. Yeah, no, perfect. So I went through a program in the Air Force that coincide.

I was basically an air marshal for the Air Force before there was the air marshals on the civilian because we did do some things, except the roles were reversed. My big job in the Air Force was when that plane hits the deck, it's called a Phoenix Raven. I was a Phoenix Raven. And which, coincidentally, the schools in New Jersey, coincidentally, where that's where kind of the second portion of the Air Marshal Academy is in New Jersey, too. I sell that to say, I went through that program as a Phoenix Raven, and that coincided totally with the air marshals. It was all about aircraft security, tactics on the aircraft,

and I hijacking procedures, yada, yada, yada. So I'm on active duty, and they're hiring. They're hiring, and so I saw how to go through the whole process, but I did get a call, and they were like, hey, you know, make sure you put your application in for, air marshals, you know, people, you know, by that time I started, you know, I was moving up and rank on the military side and I was getting out there with people knowing who I am and even in the anti-terrorism world that I was working in on the Air Force side. So I put in for it and

I get an offer. I'm on after duty though. So this is, I'm explaining how to, so they give me the offer and then I said, I do a tentative. I don't know if I took the job or I told them, I just told them that, you know, when I get off, we'll readdress this when I get off active, I don't know. My orders were for two years, but, you know, we didn't know if it was going to go two years,

how long they needed us as reservist. And so, again, this was September 11, 2001, and so fast-forwarding, I gave a condition, I gave the conditional offer. and I accepted it. And I'm not going to get into, but it was a huge pay raise from probation.

It was significant. So I did that, and it was on the, I was supposed to get the LA Field Office as my office, so still, you know, close to home. However, comma. So March, I get a call and they said, hey, we got an Air Marshal Academy that's starting up on Sunday.

This is a Thursday. This is March 2023 now. I'm still on active duty. I'm still doing things. I'm deploying. I'm not deploying. I'm at the base. And I begin winning because I have a direct line of communication with the commander just due to my position.

And I went in his office and I was like, sir. I was like, I heard that, you know, through the grapevine, that you're able to release some people from active duty. I said, I got a call from the Am Marshalls this morning on the drive-in. They offered me a job. They wanted me to start Sunday. And at the time, he just addressed me. He was, Sgt. Fella, I'm allowed to release 10 today. He goes, you're the first one.

He goes, that's as good as I heard. So, boom, I out process that day. That was a Thursday. By Friday, I'm off active duty. Saturday, got my fairs together. Sunday I'm on a plane to not-disclosed location to go to the first half of the academy. I'm going to, I guess, warning as an air marshal in March of 2023. Even though I was kind of hired in 2022, which was good, it was kind of a piece of mind because my clearance already.

Like when I got to the academy, I already had a full top secret clearance because they were able to process everything in that year. So I'm good, good to go. Um, go back to probation. I says, good and bad news. I'm off active duty. However, I'm resigning because I'm taking, and my boss was cool with it, turning my stuff. Um, so I never, never really did that much, um, active, uh, as far as an active probation officer, because by the time I got in and 9-11 hit, um, I was, I was in the training phase.

And I had a pretty good, but I was pretty excited. And I was, um, I had a pretty good gig. I was just going to have to really supervise people on that had due community service. That was about it. So what's the atmosphere on these planes in the aftermath of 9-11 when people started traveling again? What were you observing as an Air Marshall? Good question. We learned a lot about, you know, characteristics on you are looking at everybody bored in the plane

and assessing as a threat, you know, we do our own stuff. And, you know, before us, again, with that last layer. So there's, you know, the TSA, you know, that does their checks and so forth and so heavy. But again, we're looking and, you know, we have our own protocols on what we're looking for. And what are you wearing? Are you in, like, a suit and tie like that? There's a ton of movies about air marshals. You know, if not every day you get to sit down with a former air marshal.

Yeah. So what does that, like, outfit like for you back then? All right. So this is, I'm in the still, even though it wasn't like right after 2001, I actually start boarding the plane and working in 2003 as a federal credentialed air marshal. So, again, they did some old government trickery, and I end up at the New York. field office. And it wasn't supposed to happen, Ian.

But I accepted it. I have, I think at the time, you know, I'm married at the time. I have my son who's probably, he was in like third grade and my daughter's in first grade. So they're young. Got a house there. My reserve unit's there. Everything's, my whole, like my whole life is in Southern Cal, you know.

but on the flip side, my mom's still in Queens, both airports that I fly in and out of LaGuardia and JFK are in Queens. Logistically, it works out, and I could go back to my old bedroom, which, you know, and it was good. You know, my mom was happy to have me back, and it was good to spend some quality time with her. So there was pros and cons to it,

but I'm not going to get into all the whole transfer policy and all that, But the question on what do we wear? Why don't you give us like a day in the life from when you get the call? You don't have to give us like protocol and everything. Right. But just like walk us through when you get the call to say, hey, you're going to be on this plane. And then just tell us that process of what you're wearing, how you're feeling all of that.

Yeah. So and it's different extremes. So I worked as the Air Marshal in two offices, the New York, which are two of the big one, New York field office. And I retired out of the L.A. field office. So I finally got my transfer. but going backwards. So we were in freaking suits and ties on domestic flights going. So like if I'm on a jet blue flight, I'm just giving, on a Saturday wearing a suit,

I guess who the hell is there, Marshall? And we're all like at that time or I didn't have this. And, you know, I'm going to get myself back in the shape, party people. But I was in shape a lot. So we're looking like, as they said, Marines, in suits, that's the air marshals, you know, like sitting, you know, like we kind of was getting spotted. It wasn't, we were doing it to ourselves.

We weren't being pretty discreet as we should be. You should fit in kind of where you fit in. Now, if it's a first class, you know, situation where you could wear a suit and blending, cool. But if you go on Hawaii, you should probably be wearing a Hawaiian shirt and maybe like khakis or something like that, you know? So New York was pretty strict. We had a dress code. That kind of got through Fleo and some other bargaining things.

Again, we don't really have a union as a federal agent. We negotiated, I don't know, the dress code got kind of lifted. Like we could have facial hair. We could kind of wear, you know, and then some people would get carried away. Like you got to still be tactively. You can't wear like flip flops because you might be in a shoe. situation. So it did get lifted and it got relaxed, but by the time I got to L.A., it was night and day. When I got to L.A., like, they were already doing the own thing, you know, the left

coast, and it was pretty casual out there. You could blend in to the type of a tire, you know, of the flight that you're taking. So, yeah, we would get, we would know what flight we're going to be on. So you know if you're going to Hawaii or New York or London or, you know, um, Bangkok or wherever. And we were doing, I was doing a lot of international flights, a lot, you know, um. Are you sitting in first class or just regular seating? And are you allowed to get drinks, like a non-alcoholic snacks, like being served as a regular guest?

Sure, sure. You want to fit in like a regular and, yeah, and I'm glad you stressed that. Yeah, they're going to offer you like alcohol, but obviously you're going to turn it down. But yeah, you want to blend in. Do the flight attendants know and the pilots know your air marshal? I'll just leave it just the pilots know and I'm not going to get into all who knows or who doesn't know

I'm just as courtesy but it's not like it's top secret and again when you ask about what class we sit in on the record type of thing you know I'll just put it out that we sit where you do want to be close to the flight deck for you know for tactical reasons

Yeah, we do care about if Miss Smith is getting beat up by Mr. Smith in 38A, but we really don't care. You know, like, you know, like we're not really going to address that situation. We're really there for some extreme stuff. And the flight attendants are very well trained to handle low-level stuff and, you know, able-bodied passengers. But, yeah, that's a great example. Like the instances that are happening on flights now, would an air marshal respond to that?

if he happens to be on that flight, like someone getting rowdy with a flight attendant, would you get up and give your cover away for that? Great question. That's a case-by-case basis. And you'd have to, you'd have to address it and coordinate with your partner. And again, I'm not going to mention, like, how many people are on the flight, but, you know, I will say there's probably more than one, less than 10, you know, is, you know, as far as how you coordinated with your team on that flight.

And there was times where I was the international team leader where, you know, I had to make decisions and, you know, sometimes we would react. So I did have a couple things on some international flights. You know, I'll get into one arrest I actually made. domestically, which was kind of in that where I was trying not to arrest her, but it just

got to the point where I had to blow my cover, and next thing, no, like my partner looked at him in, he just said, you know, when he started grabbing his bag, as I was like, I was like, I was like, man, just turn around, put your hands behind your back, you know, I had a... So,

where we're sitting at, there is tactical reasons, we'll just leave it at that. This lady, who that was, her seat, which I bumped her, which was her seat for six months, and I get it. And there's things we can do and we couldn't move around and there's notifications we have to make because they have to know where we're sitting at for whatever reason. Protactable reasons on, you know, in shooting situations. And again, I'll address this situation, but when I get that stupid question, just so

everybody knows out there, you know, like about, and I, I was in different forms of law enforcement. I'll tell you what, I never was able to shoot as good as I could shoot until I became an air marshal. And then we'll bring that to the point of, well, let's say if it hits the fuselage and you don't hit the terrorists and nothing happens really. And I've been up in airplanes where we put holes in it and I've went through scenarios. But I will say this, at the end of the day, just like when you got to do your final test for the air marshals, like in a scenario-based test, pass or fail. doesn't matter if you made it through the last six. A home that feels intentional starts with pieces that stand out,

and that's what Serena and Lilly does best. Their heirloom quality furniture is designed in-house and crafted by expert makers to work beautifully with what you already own. Customize with over 150 fabrics, finishes, and even bespoke sizing with free design services every step of the way. Connect with their experts and start designing at serena and lily.com. Discover endless possibilities as, Serena and Lily.com.

This podcast is sponsored by IQ Bar. Not to be a stereotype or anything, but I am one of those go, go, go, go girls. So I have so much stuff that's always on my plate. And I always try to grab something on the go after the gym. And it's always so hard to find something that's actually going to be good tasting and good for you. Right? Because every time you grab a protein bar that looks like it's going to be okay,

you flip it around and you start to read the ingredient list, and it's all sugar and it's all stuff that you can't even pronounce. All I want is something good to eat. IQ Bar is the better for you plant-based protein snack made with brain-boasting nutrients to refuel, nourish, and satisfy hunger without the sugar crash. IQ Bar has low sugar, low carbs, and it's actually really good. Optimize your mind and body with IQ Bar's clean, functional products like protein bars, hydration mixes, and mushroom coffees.

Go to IQ bar.com today and enter promo code Brain IQ to get an exclusive offer just for our listeners. 20% off all IQ bar products plus free shipping. That's IQBAR.com. promo code brain IQ. IQ bar.com code brain IQ. It's months, you're out of there. You don't miss your target, point blank period. Is it like the movies, though,

where if you shoot in the cabin, it'll, like, ruin the air pressure or whatever, or is that only if it hits a window? What happens? All right. You didn't hear what I just kind of, it's kind of, no. No, that's what you were. Actually, so if it's above 10,000 feet,

which most of the time to cruising out to is like 30, 35,000 feet, whatever. it's going to depressurize the plane. It's going to cause some issues. It's going to cause turbulence. But it's not going to blow off the fuselage or anything. And the captain could drop it down. And you're going to feel it.

So you better have your seatbelt on. You could drop from 30 to 10 in like one second. And you said you guys don't miss. So it would never happen. We just don't miss. And that's that. And yeah. And I wasn't one of those that was like a 300 shooter.

But, you know, my skills got a lot, lot better, like, because we were at a very high standard, and it needs to be. So this lady that you had to arrest. Yeah, let's get back to, so this lady boards a plane, and I, you know, she says, I know who you are. And I was like, okay, whatever, just go back to reading my paper. But I act like I'm reading the paper. I'm really assessing people boarding. And it was a domestic flight, and it was my Friday, too.

So that kind of pissed me off that I had, you know. and so and this guy that was my partner was funny we were both in the air force together it was just coincidentally that day we were both partners at the LA office and it's a small world let's just say that so blah blah blah so now you know how it is you just you just was on a plane yesterday you know people get on a plane they're getting in they don't want to put the bags up find their seat yada yada yada yada not this lady she's a fish upstream when people are trying to board a plane addresses me again and choose me out.

She's like a 65-year-old lady and she's got a twin sister and that's going to come into play. So this twin sister was fine taking her new assigned seat and not her, not her. So then, okay, then final, I says, ma'am, I said, next time, and I kind of like show her my,

we have a tactical badge too. I'll butt my shirt and I show her, the next time it's not going to be this nice. Go back to your seat. And that was like, that was it. So now this is the second time. Okay. Now we're going through pre-boarding, you know, like, I mean, we've already, we've already boarded.

We've gone through pre-flight stuff like, you know, the exit rows, the blah, blah, blah, you know. And all of a sudden she gets out of her seat. We're actually like pulling off the jet bridge. fish, you know, just comes up there and finds me, she goes, and starts chewing me out again, that's when, you know, I had to make the decision. She blew my cover totally. And then, because even between that, the guy next to me says, hey, are you an air marshal or something?

You know, I was like, I don't know what she's talking about. She's crazy. But then I had to identify myself, and then we took her off. And it made my day a lot longer. That's all I got to say. But, and so obviously her sister came with her, And our sister's the first one that told me, she says, my sister, she goes, she's got diarrhea in the mouth. She goes, and even while she's in custody, you know, in cuffs.

And that turned out to be a nightmare, the whole situation, like figuring out where to bring her in, because you're in different cities and whatever. So I say that to say, she even said, first of all, and she did apologize later on. She goes, yeah, I just got diarrhea in the mouth. She goes, I can't believe this is the first time I'm in hand. cuffs and being arrested in my life. She goes, I deserved it plenty of times. And so I've had some other situations, but as far as law enforcement is concerned, I really,

and again, I worked, I did, as an air marshal, you do other law enforcement capacities. Like I worked with L.A. sheriffs on a task force. I rode trains, cruise ships, buses, as an air marshal, all forms of transportation. So we got, it's just not, yes, the majority. already is the aviation world, but we do other forms of transportation. So in a situation like that, where your cover is blown and you made the arrest, you go back on that plane or it's done? It's done.

So if there happens to be someone that is, you know, a terrorist or anything on that? I let her know that. I said if something, God forbid, happens on the plane, it's your responsibility because now there is no security on that plane. I was like, that's, you know, and I did tell her that. I remember telling her that. And that was that. How does it affect you physically flying up and down?

going up in the air and then going on another flight and traveling so much on airplanes and the time changes and everything. That's a great question. Physically, it takes a toll on you more than you think. Especially like the long trips. I used to have those Australia flights like 15 hours. And then I got to get off and fight traffic in L.A.

And it's just a long day. It's exhausting because we've got to be there a certain amount of time earlier, especially if it's international, the way we retrieve our weapons and the way they're stored. Every country's different. And of course, we've got to figure it out

in the other countries versus when other air marshals come here because I worked that job. So when my kids were in high school, I had a Monday through Friday Cush liaison job. All my job was to take care of the foreign air marshals when they landed in LA. Had a government vehicle.

It was easy money. And then also I would have another job where I would pick up the guns from the pilots. If they were going on military or medical or disciplinary reasons, I'd have to pick up their guns because sometimes the pilots have guns too, which is no secret. It's called the FFDO. Some pilots have guns too.

Yeah, I think in one of the 9-11 movies, they show that the pilot was going for the gun and they were able to commandeer that and take that gun from him. No, it wasn't a, maybe it wasn't a little 9-11 movie. It was a different movie, but they did show that. he was, that there was a boxed gun, like a lockbox? Yeah, but one, yeah. But that wouldn't be in their scenario either.

It would be on their person. Oh, it's actually attached to their hip. It's not in like a lockbox. Right. Oh, interesting. I didn't realize that. And I don't want to give out too much. And I don't even know how that program, again, I've been retired now over for five years.

Things have changed, tactics, policies, you know, again. Is it hard to just sit there doing, like, you can't, watch TV or anything can you have to be on alert the whole entire time yeah you know you could um multitask um and again i broke i personally broke it up because i had kids so there would be sometimes and then in between this even though um i did other jobs where i wasn't flying as an am marshal so you get to break it up and you have that in your mind like hey next month i'm going to be just working train. So, you know, it's kind of, but the flying does take a toll on you from the, the time changes and the altitude and this and your sleep deprivation. And it's not that glamorous

as people think, you know, traveling. I just flew here. I'm not a fan of flying. I'm telling you, I take my, my wife and I, when I retired, and by the way, I got to plug my wife, man, she is definitely my anchor and she keeps me grounded where I need to be. And my, I'm, kids, they keep me to make sure I be that responsible father. Even as they get older, they're still always going to be your kids. Just like, your dad probably still does stuff for you. And you're like, you know, even though you're a grown-ass man, did prison time and everything, but still, that's still your dad. Yeah. You know, so I respect my kids that way and they respect me. And they both moved out and moved on. And it's funny, both of them,

Southern Cal kids, I would say, but they both came back to New York for college. And my daughter actually went to college right across the street from my high school. And my son, he went to, he's more into the arts. So he went to the Art Institute in New York City. So they're both back. Well, my son's back in L.A. and my daughter, she lives in Dallas now, independent on her own, doing her thing. But I'm still dad.

So after Air Marshall, what happens next? What do you become? retire. You retire from the air marshals. I retired from the air marshals in 2019, right before COVID. I had enough time with all my federal. And again, I stayed in the military. So I retired from the military in 2014 and the air marshal of 2019.

So by 48, I'm fully retired from two careers, basically, after all this. So out of all these law enforcement careers, what's the most dangerous one from your perspective? Well, at any given day, it's definitely going to be the air marshals because it's, it's, when you're in the, you know, at 30,000 feet, you can't call for backup. It's, it's, it's just going to be a very bad day. So it's going to be the worst case scenario if it goes bad. Thank God, you know, we've had some shoot situations, but not in flight from air marshals. We have had, you know, some shoot situations. So is it safe, would you say, to travel on a plane overall?

It is. And again, we got layers in place and intel in place that, yeah. So the short answer would be yes. And again, though, if you want to like get into kicking down doors, serving warrants and stuff like that, that's not going to be the job that you're going to want to do every day. You know, if you want to get into that kind of lawful. It worked out, you know, where it was pretty prestigious, pretty, and our training is still, you know, like, it's still top-notch on every level. And I've been around multiple agencies, you know, when we battle against anybody, it could be LAPD SWAT.

I mean, I'll put that out. I mean, we got, and it's not me. I mean, we got guys that will go toe-to-to-toe with the best of the best. Did you ever do prisoner transports for the FBOP as an air marshal? No, I did it as, no. I was so new kind of, like, we would do like some hospital ones, but that's about it, like small hospital ones because we didn't really have major medical facilities in ours.

So they had to go to the hospital, I would do those. But there was a portion when I was in the Air Force where we were transporting from overseas, like the inmates to go. I was going back before. to Good Town Mall Bay. Oh, wow. That was a trip. So I had some time at Camp Justice bringing them over there.

And those flights must be extremely secure because they're high-value targets. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm not going to get into all that. But, yeah, there's not a lot of movement. You know, there's not a lot of moving on those flames. You put a diaper on them. Wow. No, someone was telling me that.

Versus Kanye, you got the chance to go to the – Even though that's not a pleasant flight either. I don't even think you're allowed to go to the bathroom. Not really. They may kind of make it where it's short enough, but that whole Oklahoma City thing, that's a nightmare. Someone was telling me recently, because I was asking why those air marshals are, in my experience, they're all overweight, and they're just not fit. They didn't look like, well, you said you were fit during your time. And we all were when we came on.

So they said that those are, the ones that do the FBOP trips are retired, that pick up shifts there? Do you know how that works in anything? So you have a, yes, I do know. I do know the process. because I've worked alongside with the U.S. Marshals. So you'll have like a few deputy U.S. Marshals. Most of them will be contractors that are retired. My buddy's doing it right now.

He does it. He does the transport, the Kanaer transports. We need him on the shout. Yeah, he doesn't. And he's retired. He retired, well, we retired from as in Amos. I'm not going to, you know, that'll be on him. But he does that now, the contractor thing.

And someone was also saying those, even though they're like out of shape and whatnot and working those flights are like some of the most deadly law enforcement officers because they don't miss. A lot of experience. A lot of experience. And, you know, that old man's strength. You can't duplicate that. And that's all I'll leave it at that. You know, don't unnerce me. And that's why even I got this injury. I feel very vulnerable.

Like I, not that I ever want to have to defend myself, but I do think about that. just because of the people that I've ran across and stuff like that. When you go on planes now, are you always very high alert and still looking around? Are you more relaxed? I'm a lot more relaxed. A lot more relaxed. I just still don't like to fly. Like I said, after, like, during COVID when I retired, when I was studying for my PI test,

traveled around the country with my wife. I'm like, I just got in my sprinter RV, and we just had a ball. And I got to see a lot of places that I flew over. Like, I got to go see. Mount Rushmore and just hit baseball games in different cities. As the Air Marshal would travel a lot, but you really don't get to take in that city. You know, so I got to spend two days here, three days there,

hit different golf courses. Oh, it was just, but so I got to fly over all the country that, I mean, drive that, you know, I like to drive because I like to see the country, you know. This is the land that I protected. And again, with all these professions, how I landed in it, you know, I do it all over again. And it worked out good.

This PI gig has been a great retirement gig. It keeps me busy. I work when I want to. I can't complain. What was your favorite agency you've worked for? Money-wise, it wasn't that great. But I'm telling you, that probation gig was going to be, I think that was going to be so cushioned.

I think I was going to be able to make not really an impact because those people already been like sentenced. and they're on the tail end, but I was just like, it was going to be pretty cush to the fact that Monday through Thursday, four 10-hour days, I had a county car. I was literally like my house was like three miles from where my office was, you know, logistically. That's good quality of life. And I had the whole share custody with my kids and, you know, I think, quality of light, that was good. But every job I took something out of, good, you know, from the first law enforcement,

like when I worked in the boot camp style, I used to do the workouts with the kids. Yeah, I used to, you know, and I think I was able to individually talk to a lot of those kids. And they heard my story. And back then, again, I was only 24, 25, you know, straight from, you know, New York City to, you know, college in Utah to, um, the military where I had life experiences. And then, um, again, still, I guess a young father. So I was learning to there. A lot of things, there's no book they tell you, you know, like lots of stuff they teach you in school.

It's just, you know, whether it's relevant or not relevant, they don't teach you a lot of stuff that you're going to need in life, you know, how to do taxes, you know, um, How to bury a parent, you know, like those are life lessons that, you know. So that's where I kind of filled that void with a lot of these kids when I was in that boot camp style. They missed that. They needed a mentor. They needed guidance. They were from, at best, a single parent family, you know.

So. What's something you learned about the criminal justice system? The criminal justice system, it could definitely. it could definitely be better, but I worked in almost every form of it, being from corrections when you're already sentenced past the prosecution stage to the policing where you had the power to arrest and then probation where they're released or if you get, sometimes you just get probation in lieu of. So I've worked every aspect of the criminal justice system.

It's got problems on I'd say the municipalities as far as different. How we're not on the same sheet, you know, like each states is different. And I'm pretty fortunate because I fall under like it's called HR 218 as far as even like concealed carry. Like if you could carry a weapon in this state, you can in this state or this or this or that. And we're pretty blessed as a retired federal agent, you know, we could any territory, any U.S. state, even Puerto Rico, Guam, Hawaii, you know, we could carry. But different portions of carrying a weapon to different laws from the drugs, I think we should be more unison. It's kind of like, I don't know, quick analogy. You're just even like this, we call it easy pass here in the northeast or whatever.

Like there should be one universal type of easy pass. Like if you go to Florida, you got to have the sun pass. In California, you got to have fast track. It's just what they want you to have, 20 transponders if you travel across the country. You know, same thing with the criminal justice system. It might be a bad analogy, but we should be more on the same sheet. the music because again, where does it come down to a lot of things? Money, you know, like there's, like, like, like Illinois don't want to give up their

transponders because they're getting a percentage. Like New York doesn't want to give up theirs and Florida doesn't want to give up theirs. Same there with the criminal justice system. Do these counties make money? These counties make money when I know it is a money thing. I know like as a federal agent, if we, if we got to lock somebody up. Even in the military, if we got to lock somebody up, we got to pay these counties per day in different scenarios. Like, there are some contractor type of scenarios that are already prearranged.

But sometimes in the feds, I'll tell you, it's kind of weird in this whole perspective. Checking somebody into an MDC, which is a federal correctional facility, after a certain hour, is pretty tough. Sometimes they won't take an inmate. They work nine to five. They won't take an inmate. You got to go to, like in L.A. You got to go to L.A. County.

Check them in. And you got to pay with a government credit card to house. And that emma's got to be housed separately and in a different standard than the county inmates. It's a very screwed up system. Yeah. So like, yeah. Now, you, you had, you had, you had. It's a nopsis, yeah.

You had touched on a lot that you liked the probation aspect. Is that because you wanted to help people? Like, you genuinely, coming from, you know, an area where you got into trouble as a kid and experienced Rikers Island. Did you, did the probation aspect, you know, you were attracted to it because you had the ability to help people, whereas maybe less so in other roles? Pretty much. I could hands-on directly impact people and I could actually make recommendations to the judge where to get them released. And I could, I know somebody's bullshit me, Ian. like it in like

yeah you still have to have different protocols like you have to like go through these classes or these classes and you have to do a certain amount of community services but you can be released easy and you can make their life a lot easier but guess what what I say about respect in the beginning

it's a two-way street you got to treat me with respect if I got to be here at 8 o'clock you got to be here at 8 o'clock to show for you know community service you know it's my job basically this is your job so I don't have no problem doing the paperwork if it's the other way too, you know, and extend your probation. But at the most part, I think I had more of influence.

And it's anything. Anybody could change. I mean, look what the government would put you through. I mean, it changed your life for a while, but you made the decision. You know, it's not like, you know, I could tell you weren't given a silver spoon. And so you had the same hurdles. speed bumps as other inmates did. And once you get caught up in it, it's not cool.

And I almost got caught up in that wheel. So I don't judge. You know, that's one thing I don't judge. And I try and stay through our life. I try and stay hungry and humble. And, you know, no matter what my accomplishments are, you know. So. What advice would you give to someone that is caught up in the system or is going through

the system or even a loved one that has someone going through? the system. Well, if it's the individual, I'd be like, I would definitely dot the eyes, cross the T's, do whatever you got to do, but don't let that control you as far as your destiny. Like, look what you've done, even though you still had to play by all the rules

when you got on probation. I don't know if you had to do the halfway house and all that, but you still had to go by the, but that didn't set you up. And I know I did a little bit of, research day. You went in and you worked at like, was it Whole Foods or one of those? But this is what you wanted to do.

You stepped out of that comfort. So you could still, as long as you got, it's kind of like in poker. If you got a chip in a chair, you're still in the game. Always in the game. You're in the game. So what you, if you could, if you got, you know, like I say, people say, you know, I'm going to kick your ass. I'm like, yeah, what's stopping you?

It's just airing opportunity. There goes the air. You know what I'm saying? So if you have an opportunity or another breath or like a poker analogy, a chip in the chair, you're like, do what you got to do to complete your terms and conditions of probation. And don't let that, don't let, you know, you know, at times I was told no, man. You know how many successful people were told no? And I'm telling you that.

And to the camera, like, I was told them not a lot on a lot of things. and you know what, squeaky well gets the oil. If you want to do it, perseverance, I really believe in perseverance, and especially if you've got a passion for it. So if you're in trouble, got caught up in this system, going back to your original question,

like, don't let that define you. Do what you got to do. Don't let that define you. And if you've got a loved one that's caught up, support him or her, because don't judge because that could have been you and you would want that support. Absolutely. You know?

Well said. Well, Jeff, thank you so much, man, for coming on the show today. This was a wonderful conversation. I'm glad we got to do this. This is awesome with a capital A and I'm glad I got to share with you, Ian. I appreciate you. I love these conversations with, you know, former inmate and former law enforcement because it's like two sides, you know. and it's very honest and real and raw.

I'm going to keep it real. Love it. Well, safe travels back. Enjoy your time in New York and keep in touch. We'll do.