Locked In with Ian Bick - Gang Member Charged With Murder | William Leahy

Episode Date: October 19, 2023

Have you ever been on the run? William Leahy has. After a night gone wrong, William tried to escape the consequences of his actions, but the law caught up with him. This misstep wasn’t an isolated incident — William had a rough childhood and joined a gang. Headed for prison, William took his gang affiliations with him, and it marked his experience while incarcerated. Listen in as William tells Ian about his journey on this episode of Locked In. Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 10% off your order Connect with Ian Bick: https://www.ianbick.com 00:00 Intro 00:53 Top 200 podcast 01:05 Be A guest on the show 02:25 Early Childhood 05:25 Blaming parents for foster care 07:30 Mom has kids beat him up 9:00 How he was as a child 11:50 Robbing people for food 13:30 Loving the ones that cause us pain 14:42 Using Substances 16:14 Graduating high school 17:25 What would have happened if he stayed in school 19:03 Why he was charged with murder 33:00 Why individuals join gangs 35:36 Trial or plea deal 37:24 Going to prison 38:33 Guards hurting inmates 41:52 Gang affiliated in prison 43:54 Why are inmates Against certain behaviors 45:49 Prison hustle 47:45 What the box is like 51:13 Getting home from prison and Turning it around Produced by: https://www.instagram.com/shanedanahy https://www.shanedanahy.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Real California Milk In the midst of fighting Someone who got knocked out They jumped on them like fucking hyenas They were tired of fighting They were fighting for 15 minutes But because someone placed you in the room You get charged with

No I was there I contributed to Oh so you did contribute Because when I knocked them out They stabbed him So you were a part of this whole day Yeah yeah And after that I hit somebody in the face

With a rebar That had it all Bats, bottle sticks chains Rebar But you weren't planning On killing this individual that day No of course not I was fucking smoking a joint

looking and thinking about what I was going to do for tomorrow. On today's episode, we have William Leahy, a former gang member that ends up getting charged with murder in the second degree and sentenced to prison. In this episode, we dive into how his childhood let him down a bad path, what led him to become charged with murder, and what it's like to be a gang member in prison. Thank you, everyone, the viewers, the listeners that tune in week after week and support this show. We are a top 200 podcast out of five million.

and plus podcasts in the world all because of you guys. It means the absolute world and we would not be here without you. Remember if you're interested in coming on the Lockton with Ian Bick show, you could go to our website, Ian Bick.com, click on the Be a Guest tab and the contact section. Fill out that form and we'll be in touch with you as soon as scheduling allows. I hope you all sit back, relax, and get ready to get locked in with William Leahy. William, welcome to Lockton, man.

You had a nice train ride here today, not too cold out, but you're looking really cozy lumber jacky. How are you doing today? Good, bro. You know, it's a good vibe, a good ride. But let me start. We recording right now? Yeah, you're good, man.

Be natural, be yourself, you know? You're in the zone, man. You're locked in. You're in the hot seat. Got the lights on you right now. No, yeah, you're right. No, so it was a good ride, man. I was thinking a lot.

Usually I drive, but I decided, you know. You have a car on the city? Yeah. Isn't that expensive? It's super expensive. Once you find parking, you don't want to move. Yeah, sometimes when I'll go and visit my cousins and stuff in the city, I always drive. I hate taking the train.

But sometimes I'll get tickets or it's hard to find a spot or some garages are $100, others are 50. It's crazy. But let's get into it, man. Let's start at the beginning of your story. Where are you from? Where did you grow up? What's like that early childhood like for Will? Okay, so can't really speak about my child unless I speak about my parents, right?

My father was a merchant marine from the age of 19 to like 68. Gone most of the time, seen it maybe like once a year, if that, right? Mother, she picked up a bad habit, a lot of drugs, you know, addicted to crack and other things, pills. You know, it starts off with that kind of stuff. I was born in Downstate Hospital in Brooklyn. Yeah, it was rough. I got taken away from my mother because she had left the stove on. Fire.

Almost happened. Fire department came. They banged down the door or whatever. Went with Aunt Lillian. She was a, I guess you could say, one of those old Irish ladies that are like heavy drinkers, but like functioning to the point where it's like, you know, that's just who she is. So I got a lot of whoopings, man. I got my ass beat a lot.

You know, I was out of control, running up and down the streets, letting tires out of people's cars and shit, climbing out of windows. So I used to get weapons a lot. I went to school that was like four or five. ACS came and took me away and they put me in forced care. Mother was, you know, still fucked up, heavily addicted to crack and, you know, heroin. And she was pretty much doing it all. So, still in the forced care system for, like, I want to say almost three years.

My mother and father came together, decided to, you know, do the right thing and get me back. Mother was in a program called Samaritan Village. I don't know if you ever heard of it. No. It's a drug rehab. Back in the day, it's like the Osborne associations or stuff like that, she passed that with flying colors, and they said, you know what, we're going to give you your child back. Six months later, she relapsed.

So we, uh, we, we, we, we, we, we were with my father. You're my fault, bro. My fault. No, you're good. It's just, I'm, I'm double, I'm hearing double. Yeah, you know, the, it's not useful. You hear yourself talking, yeah. Yeah, and then it's like, it's crazy, bro.

No, you don't have to wear the headphones, yeah. I don't? No, if you don't want to. I like it because it, like, locks you in, you know? Yeah. No, just pull the mic a little closer and then you're, yeah, you're all right there. You're good. Yeah.

So, yeah. Uh, so, yeah. So yeah, my mother, you know, she, she was doing bad, man. Six months in, relapsed, father's out to sea. We went back to Brooklyn. He got a house in Tom's River, New Jersey. So he was out there chilling and stuff. Did you blame your parents for going into foster care?

Or were you too young to put blame on them at that time? I didn't know what was going on. I was actually, I was just, you know, alone for the ride, bro. It was a ride, you know. First foreston I went to, I was distraught. I was crying, screaming, yelling. They had to move me to a different foreston because it was, like, way too much for me.

Like, yeah, overwhelmed. Cried my self-to-sleep, and then, you know, the next day they moved me somewhere else. I was there for about two weeks. I was there. Good family, great vibes. And then a distant relative on my mother's side got custody to me.

In the process, my mother was doing the program, trying to figure it out, get me, you know, situated, see if she can get me back. Nine times out of ten, they'll give the kid back to the mother. So, you know, that was on her side, and then the fact that my mother got back with my father and they came together collectively. You know, it made a stronger case for them to actually get me back. But there's a lot of factors in that. You know, my father's a merchant marine. He's not going to get up and say, hey, you know, I'm not doing this anymore. This is his livelihood.

You know, my mother, red-headed wild child. So it's a bad mix. They're both originally from Flatbush, Brooklyn, Church Avenue. They knew each other since they were young, and then, you know, eventually in time, you know, things came together, neighborhood love. And that's where I came about, but they didn't have it together. The recipe for what was supposed to take place, they didn't have it. They didn't have the right ingredients. So you had a broken childhood?

Yeah, no. And then after that, I went to, uh, so my mother, she, uh, decided to say, you know what, we're going back to Brooklyn. Go back to Brooklyn. But before that, she, uh, she had some kids, some teenagers in the, in the neighborhood tune me up, like pay them to tune me up and say, yo, listen, if you're going to Brooklyn, you need to be prepared. So wait, so your mother paid someone to have kids beat you up?

Well, paid the kids. The older kids and, you? Yeah, to beat you up. Yeah, because she knew we were going back to Brooklyn. Wow. So, yeah, this one kid for, like, the last week we were there before we went back to Brooklyn, they tuned me up every day, bro. And it just, you know, it was something new to me

because, you know, I wasn't used to that kind of, you know, forceful, you know, aggression. I got whipped every once in a while, whatnot like that. So when we got to Brooklyn, my mother, we went to a friend, a close friend of the family's house, their house, and she pretty much took over, man, and kicked me out with a piece of paper with my address on it. I said, yo, go figure it out.

I'm nine in Brooklyn, Flatwoods, with a big-ass silver bike. I go out there, figure it out. I link up with a few kids that are going through the same thing. So when it comes to, like, like drug addicts, Usually they have kids, right? So usually those kids from the drug addicts know each other, and they become like a little crew. You know what I mean?

So that's what happened. We started running around robbing people, stealing stuff. You know, we're not eating like that. Food is scarce. This is 95, 94. And you're 9, 10 years old? Yeah. How would people characterize you back then?

Like, if we had one of your 10-year-old friends with you here today, how would he say you were back then? Um, just surviving. A survivor? Surviving. I would say that we were all going through the same thing. We didn't really know who we were, let it know who our friend, you know, who we were around too, because we were all going through our same thing. Like, I've seen somebody get killed at the age of nine, ten, nine, ten, you know what I mean?

Mother and a friend or partner or whatever. you want to call it, they did some bad things to somebody, and I never seen him again. I don't know if that's actually, you know, but when I saw him, he wasn't moving, you know what I mean, and then never got brought up again. Did you feel alone at that age? Of course. Even though I had friends, I had, you know, nobody, man. I had nobody really depend on.

I had a dog named Tiger. And you found a lot of love for that dog? Best friend, bro, guardian angel. You know what I mean? He was against a lot of fights and they would. We always used to get this little, you know, block brawls and, you know, flat which is known for robbing. So it's like a rites of passage wherever you go.

Either you're robbing or you're getting robbed. So when I had this dog, man, nothing happened to me. Like this dog was a German shepherd. It just popped up in the backyard. I had another dog back there where she was, you know, a little older, not really agile. And she was in heat. And we found tiger in the back and he just never left him outside. A funny story

The story with that is The way I lost him was My mother was She was whooping my ass bad Bad bad bad He came in from the backyard Backed her corner Shook her

I grabbed her chitty and shook her The dog did Yeah He jumped right in front of me He wouldn't let her out the corner And I've always thought to myself Hey this dog had to be some kind of police trained dog The German Shepherd

This dog was on hand commands If I stopped he stopped If I went he wouldn't If I climbed a car, he climbed a car. Like, if anybody came and had any aggression towards me, this dog was going to let you know, like, you need to back up. And I'm young, you know what I mean? So she sent me the way to sleepaway camp.

When I came back, man, he was gone. Never seen him again. I was crying through the neighborhood, walking around the neighborhood, you know, crying and shit. Older dudes are like, no, we ain't, they always saw the dog with me. So they're like, no, we didn't see him. So, you know, that was one of my best. Best best friends when I was growing up. And do you think your mom put him somewhere game away?

Yeah, she did. Do you think if she never did that, you never would have ended up in prison? Because you had, like, that companion. No, we were doing, I was robbing people with that dog. You know what I mean? Like, it came to the point where, like, we were just, just outlaws, bro. When you say you're robbing people, are you robbing people because you need to eat because you have no food?

Yeah, there wasn't no. So back then, there's massive amounts of food now. I don't see kids ever going hungry now. Back then, like, there were days that I didn't eat. You know what I mean? Like, and when I did eat, it was, like, shit from the Chinese store, like chicken wings and french fries and shit like that. I think about it now with my kids, I'm like, yo,

there was days upon days that I went without food. You know what I mean? And now it's just different. There's so much food. It's like everybody's just... You know what I mean? So you have kids now? Yeah.

Do you ever think to yourself and recall the memories that you had with your mother that you never want to be that kind of parent to your kids? Of course. I learned everything, you know, how to avoid, I don't know how to say this. I did everything opposite of what my mother did. You know what I mean? Like she was a loving, caring person underneath all that other stuff. But she also had her issues that she never dealt with. You know what I mean?

So I don't blame her. You know, we all go through this journey of life and we pick up things and sometimes we're strong enough to shake it, but sometimes we're not. Unfortunately, I don't think she had or she was put through too many things to really find her way out. So, you know, even though she didn't teach me a lot of things, I learned a lot. And you still have love? Of course. It's my mother. So isn't that interesting that someone that could be so even mentally, physically abusive to someone,

and maybe not directly physically, but by her actions caused you to be physically and mentally abused, you still had so much love for that woman because she was your mother? I'm sorry, I was just thinking about, I was just thinking about my mom. Say that one more time. No, I'm just like, I'm curious just about how someone that was in your position still has so much love for someone, for someone that created an environment that wasn't necessarily the best for you? So it goes to, I guess,

I don't hold resentment, real. You know what I mean? Everything, I take it as everything that I've been through was for a reason, and everything that I went through, you can learn something. You know what I mean? I can't walk around it that way.

You know what I mean? I've been through enough, I've got enough shit that I've been through to have that on top of the things that I've been through. And then still having, To let those things go, I wouldn't be able to do that if I was a carry around all the bullshit. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So it's just, I'm on a journey, bro. You know what I mean? Were you using drugs or alcohol during your teenage years? No. You never got into it. No. I smoked weed, you know.

But seeing my mother and living in crack houses and, you know, living in the streets and bouncing house to house and, you know, coupons, forthcoming. It's never been my thing. I see my mother go from a beautiful, healthy woman, you know, just coming out of rehab, and then six, seven months later, man. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking,

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It's time we started hunting them. I can work with that. This should be tons of fun. Marvel television's Daredevil, Born Again, now streaming only on Disney Plus. Like Skeletor, bro. No, we've had quite a few guests on where a reoccurring theme is that the parent used and they became a user themselves. So are you, do you believe that it doesn't run through the bloodline or biologically then?

I think I endured so much trauma because of that particular, because of drugs, that it almost felt like I was on drugs without being on drugs. So imagine being on drugs. You know what I mean? I wouldn't want to feel that way and then actually went through it sober. You know what I mean?

Like, for me, there is nothing but debt behind people who take drugs. You know what I mean? As much as you want to try to get rid of whatever it is that you're going through or have been through, when you're done with that high, bro, you're 10 steps behind.

And then the next time you're trying to get 20 steps ahead, but then you're 30 steps behind. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's just never made sense to me. Yeah. Do you end up graduating high school? Do you finish high school? No, man, I dropped out of school at a fourth grade, man.

At fourth grade? Yeah, it was bad. So I didn't have any clothes. There was really no food. My mother, she's like, drugged out of her mind. It was bad, man. I would not go to school purposely because I didn't have anything to wear and I didn't want to get joked on. Kids would make fun of you because of your...

Hell yeah. Yeah, so, you know, that was the thing, too. No food. I'm worried about what I'm going to eat. I'm starving. You know what I mean? I'm running around the streets. I don't want to be in a house with my mother because fucking crack everywhere.

You know what I'm saying? It's a cloud of smoke everywhere you go. I used to sleep in the hallway, like literally because I didn't want to be. around that shit. Like, it came to the point where dealers used to step over me while I was sleeping because, you know, the party is all night long, bro. They're in and out. Like, I used to sleep on a baby mattress, bro.

Like, I didn't even take nothing from the room. I found a baby mattress put it in the hallway, and that's where I would sleep. And they would step over me. It was crazy. Do you think that if you stayed in school, your life would have turned out differently? Or do you think you were on that path regardless of school or no school? If I had a secure environment with some food and some clean clothes, that would have been something I could have focused on.

So you think all the trouble you would later get into stemmed from being hungry? Fuck yeah, bro. That's wild. Like basic human need taken from you. And then not for nothing, though. Flatbush Brooklyn is just like, if you don't have it, you take it. You know what I mean? So it's like different parts of the city have different trades, if you should say.

You know what I mean? or flag bushes, say goodbye, anything is necessary. Yeah. Or get God, either or. Now, I know you were, you know, in and out juvenile detention. You've been arrested multiple times, but there's one specific instance that I want to focus on on today's interview that really landed you in trouble and gave you a story. Yeah.

Can we talk about that? Yes, sure. Go ahead. Bring it up. Well, let's start from the beginning of that. Walk me through that day. What story? I've been through a lot.

I mean, it's... All right. So specifically, I'm thinking. thinking that it was a car incident. There was a car incident with the stabbing. Someone got stabbed, right? Oh, so yes. That's the one that gave you the long prison sentence.

Yeah. So this time I just got out of Juvie. I think I'm like, so I get out of Juvie. I go to the group home. I leave the group home. I go, hey, well, I'm on a street like maybe, I don't know, maybe a year. Yeah, 17, 18. Yeah, about a year, right?

I catch a gun charge. I go cop out to the gun charge and I come home eight months later, which is a year of a wreckers Island, right? Come home, I ain't got nowhere to go. I link up with a kid that I'm in a group home with before or prior. We've done some things. We've had some fights, street fights, and robberies, and we're kind of cool. You know what I'm saying?

This is like, I want to say I want to call on my brother. You know what I mean? Like, so, um, come out, I ain't got nowhere to go. So I say, yo, listen, man, I'm trying to rent a room, uh, you know, I'm still robbing shit. I'm like, literally, like, in the street, like, going crazy. Still, like, calculated, but I'm getting into the shits. It gives me a room to the stay. Just what happens at this particular house is, uh, you know, uh, how can I say?

So he's gang-related, right? So he's involved with a gang. At this particular time, I'm repping my set, I'm Crip from Flatbush. I'm whaling. I'm doing craziness, bro. I'm running the streets. I don't go to fuck about nothing.

My mother just died. So on top of everything, it's just I really, I could care less. Gets me a room, so happens that this whole house is Lang King, right? I'm Crip. It's my man from a group home. He fucks with me. He gets me the room. They're looking at me like,

yo, what is he doing here? Why is he here? You know what I'm saying? I'm still rocking flags and crates. And I'm hardcore in to this shit. Like, I'm ready to go at any time. Get rich a dot-chin shit. So I'm there for a little while.

I'm into my rooms. I'm going back and forth. The Brooklyn is that's in Staten Island. You know, pay my rent, do my thing. Just so I was one night. They had a brother that died a year previous, right? Some happened to where I think he was involved with something that happened with him getting stabbed or thrown off a roof.

Can't really put my finger on. I can't remember. But this whole house is, you know, at a memorial for him. It's a year it is death date. They're lighting candles. They're signing cards. They're doing everything. I'm in the house.

I just came back from doing whatever. it is that I do. You know, one of these guys come back looking for other people to help. They're in this fight with some, you know, a rival gang. It's supposed to be like 20 of them, bats, bottle, sticks, chains, everything. He comes back. I'm the only one there. He's like, yo, we're up there getting it in immediately.

No hesitation. I run up there. Cess the situation, gets crazy. Fighting, knock on somebody out, grab a rebar, hit them in the face. and the police put their lights on. So everybody's like ready to go, scrambling. I run, go behind a house on a garage. I'm there for like 45 minutes,

literally on my splinter cell shit. So I'm there listening to cars, go around, phasing around, you hear the engine's worn. You hear somebody yelling, he's going to bleed out, call the ambulance. I'm like, oh shit. Stayed here, jump down. down, going to somebody's porch. It's still crazy. It's quieting it down now. It's like maybe

an hour and stay there for another 45 minutes. It's quiet now. I'm going in front of the person's house that I've been in the backyard and take off my shirt, took on my shoes, smoke a cigarette, and just watch. It's like two, three in the morning. This girl walks by, and I'm like, I got to get to the train tracks so I can get back to the house because where this happened is there's a train trial, trolley old band of trade tracks at Staten Island. looks over this one particular street. And the house that I was in was like two blocks away from that street, and you could take the train tracks.

So I asked this girl, hey, listen, can you walk with me to the train tracks? You know, I'm in a little bit of a jam. She looks at me like, I'm fucking crazy and keeps it moving. So I'm like, yo, she's going to tell somebody, I got to go. I got to move. So she's like a block ahead of me now. Where she stops is where the gate is to get to the top of the, the train tracks.

So I said, yeah, I apologize, I'm going to start him. She's around a bunch of people, and I run up the side of the fence and I get on the train tracks. I do the military crawl, pass it because I'm like, the police are right here.

They're going to see the train tracks. They'll see me walking. So I got there. I jumped down. I'm going to run for two weeks. Now, this particular house, like I said, was ran by another gang. Their higher up,

whoever was in charge of them was, like, on me. Like, he's feeling me. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know them. They don't know me. I know one person out of this whole group. And he's like, you know, you just went out there and did your thing.

And, like, it's nothing. So I'm trying to get out of there. Previous to this, Staten Island had a thing where two cops got killed. And a guy tried to get on a ferry, but he dresses the woman. So I say, you know what, man, that's not going to work. I need to get off this island. I'm going to have somebody drive me off. This guy is, you know, he's trying to, you know, big things up.

And I'm going to take advantage of this. I say, you listen, I need a robbery, so I can have some money, I can get, I know where I got to go, and I can do what I got to do. He's supposed to set this up, brings me out there on the dry run,

go back to the house. This is in the two weeks. The two-week mark, he comes back, he's like, let's go. I'm not ready. Mentally, emotionally, I'm just, oh shit. I'm like,

all right, fuck it. Got my shirt on, jump in the car, and I'm just like, something's not right put my seatbelt on he's talking he rolls down my window

I'm like yeah we're not doing that I roll back up the window I'm like why the fuck would he do that I want to run for a fucking body bro like what are you doing driving he pulls going to the direction in the way we went before

it's late it's dark he's popping he's talking like he's never talked like this before he's like one of those 48 laws of power kind of guys you know what I'm saying Real quiet.

So he's making small talk, and I'm like, yeah, something's not right, man. Fill it in my gut. Something's not right. Stop at the light. He's like, yeah, da-da-da-da-da-da. I smell like onions. Yo, he never puts fucking hands down, bro. Gang intelligence comes on the side of the car.

There was another kid in the back seat. They take him and put him on the back. Take him, put him on the back. He ain't no driver's registration, no nothing. Like, get on the back of the car, big man. My driver just came home. from a gun charge. So I got weapons on my jacket.

I got violence. I got all kinds of shit. Gang-related, all kinds of shit. So they searched me about three, four times, throwing me into gang intelligence vehicle, holding up traffic. He's still on the back of his car. Who shows up?

Fucking homicide, bro. They pop up. They hold up traffic for like five minutes, smoking cigars, talking to this kid that just broke me, supposed to bring me on the robbery. Like, yeah, big man, go ahead, get out of here

He jumps in a car and peels off Like, he caught a robbery, bro Never seen him again They take me in Like, yeah, we're charging with this, this And I'm like, y'all know nothing, da-da-da-da-da-da Murder in a second Charge him, murdering a second, sitting on an island now

I called my girl at the time I'm like, yo, it got me, it's over Go ahead, live your life, it's over, we're done She's like, all right, she's like a mistake I said, okay. I just had to let her know. You know, listen, I'm going to be doing some time. I'm not coming home.

You know what I mean? Like, this is going to be a little stretch, so I understand if you've got to go, go. She holds it down for a little bit, but, you know, shit happens. So fighting this case for about a year. Six months in to fighting this case. And mind you, I don't know none of these kids. I just know that one kid from the group home,

supposed to be like my brother. him and this other kid I have five CODs so let's get to that there's five of us right one being him one being me and three

three others his the person that he he was with when he started telling they came together and they started

telling the DA whatever they let them out the side door after six months so now it's me and these two other kids that I really don't know I just went up there

you know just to get it in And, you know, they said, we thought you would be the one to tell. We don't know you. And I'm like, yeah, that's crazy, right? And the crazy part is I didn't even go up for them. I went up for my man that told on all of us. So someone snitched on the whole thing? Well, two of them, really.

There was two of them. They turned. What is Berta in the second? Like, what does that mean? 125.25. It's, so it's not premeditated. It's, oh, that's 125.20, I don't. It's not premeditated.

It just happened. It just so happens that, you know. And you were charged with attempted murder or murder? No, we were all charged with murder in a second. When we finally went to our first hearing, there's a lack of evidence. Come to find out, they were fighting 15 minutes before I got there. The police were watching. So you didn't actually kill someone yourself.

You just happened to be there and someone died? Yeah. So in the midst of fighting, someone who got knocked out, they jumped on them like fucking hyenas, bro. They were tired of fighting. They were fighting for 15 minutes. But because someone placed you in the room, you get charged with? No, I was there.

I contributed to it. Oh, so you did contribute. Because when I knocked them out, they stabbed him. So you were a part of this whole day. Yeah, yeah. And then after that, I hit somebody in the face with a rebar. They had it all. Bats, bottle sticks, chains, rebar.

But you weren't planning on killing this individual that day. No, of course not. I was fucking smoking a joint, looking and thinking about what I was going to do for tomorrow. When you found out he died, how did that make you feel? I said, well, honestly, bro. Because you're not a killer, man. You grew up, you know, in a traumatic experience. You didn't grow up born to kill and in this area where you're out, you know?

So gangbanging, right? I started gangbanging at like 10-11. Subset of a Crip set. We, like, they trained us, bro. Like, we were in some shit. When it came to the fighting aspect, I knew that it could either be. me or them. Like, we would, like, we were trained to fight.

Like, when I was coming up in a gang culture, it was start off with a one-on-one, and then two are going to jump in, and you've got to hold it down. And this happened every day. Like, in Brooklyn, bro, that's like, it's like a rites of passage. You get hazed.

I've heard that's how you get initiated into a gang, right? Well, yeah. I mean, after that, usually, you know, it's nothing really. really severe after that, but this particular crew that I was with, we made sure that we got it in every single day. How do you join the Crips? So I didn't actually join.

I was actually, I was just told to come. So they just saw you on the street walking and they said, hey. I had a little reputation. They used to call me Billy Badass. Billy Badass was your name? Yeah, so I used to run around around the shit, a young age, you know, everybody knew my mother in my situation. So I was just a little white boy that ran the neighborhood.

and just got into a whole bunch of shit and everybody knew it wasn't really, you know, anybody's fault but my circumstances. You know, the circumstances of where I was living and what I was going through is, you know, the product of what you got. Yeah. If you didn't go on the run, would the amount of time you got had been less or no? No. That didn't matter.

I don't think that would have mattered because it now if I had to stood on the run and, you know, they wouldn't want to trial and court and all that stuff and hearings the way we went. I don't know what would happen, but I don't think it affected it any way. It was going to happen regardless. Do you think that law enforcement treated this whole situation differently because it was another gang member that died and not like an innocent civilian? Well, I think because of it was gang related and they seen both sides, you know, collectively it's like 30 people fighting. You know what I mean? It's five against 20, 25.

And so the fact that even in the hearing when they said, you know, they were watching for 15 minutes. This whole thing took, it was taking place for 15 minutes before somebody came back to the house for help. Just what happens is that I was there. And I went up there and I, you know, did what I had to do. But they were doing, they were fighting for 15 minutes prior. You know, five minutes fighting was a long time, unconditioned. You know what I mean? Even conditioned.

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Way before all that shit happened. But they didn't do anything. They didn't. They didn't stop it until they saw blood coming from his neck and his head. And this was just a normal everyday life as a gang member? Yeah, yeah. So in a group home, right, a lot of group home kids are gang members. They're like the rejects of, you know, the worst at the worst families of, you know, shit that happens,

whether it's abuse, you know, drugs, whatever. We're like the worst of the worst, the bottom of the barrel. So we're going to be doing what's around us. And the only thing that's closest to us is the street. So do you think individuals join gangs because they were lacking something, whether it's in their childhood or in themselves? Like what propels someone? Joining a gang at a young age is more a family reliance.

It's being a part of it. You want to feel some kind of acceptance and know that you're safe. When you join a gang, you're older, man, that's pretty fucking stupid, bro. You know what I mean? But guys do it. It's all for the wrong reasons. And you know how they end up, bro. They get taken advantage of some way somehow.

You know what I mean? They're not on the high packing order. They're at the bottom because it's like, you know, 30 years old. So what would be your message to a kid that, you know, that's joining a gang at a young age? How would you prevent him to stop from joining? It has to be somebody that's well-respected in the community that has a hierarchy that's not going to manipulate or take advantage of that young mind or take advantage and put that person in a bad position for self-gained.

It has to be somebody who's unconditionally looking out for the interest of that child. To get them to stop it from doing that. Well, that's one thing. But you've got to remember resources, everything. So if a kid is hungry, bro, and he ain't got to. clothes. There's only so much you can send him unless you're going to give it to him and say, you listen, I got you. You're secure. You ain't got to worry about clothing or food. Let's work on the brain. That's highly likely not going to happen. Do you wish someone was there for you

to say that to you when you look back on this whole thing and how you got yourself into this? I believe that if the system, the group home system, not even goddamn family court system, But just the group home system, if they had implemented a better socializing plan and, you know, a sense of security, a foundation where a kid didn't think he was going to move next week and have to figure it all out. Because group homes are just like jail. It's just like going into a house, bro. You know, you've got to figure this shit out now. Who's running the house? Who's the favorite of the CEO?

Who's the guy? What's this? Who's got it? Who doesn't? You got to go through the whole program again. And then you've got to find your pecking order. So if you got a kid that's under the staff that's a dickhead and he's a dirt bag, the house is going to be ran by a dirt bag.

You know what I mean? If you've got a kid that's in football and he's getting high scholarships or whatever the case, maybe the atmosphere of that house is going to be different. So the child coming into it is going to be like, oh, this is a different atmosphere. I feel safe and secure. A lot of the time it doesn't happen like that. Now, do you end up going to trial? Do you take a plea deal?

So we went to our hearings. We were going to trial. In our hearings, the judge came and said, yo, listen, we're beating a dead horse here. Come back in chambers. Lawyers went back in chambers. They came back what I would offer. One of my CODs took 13 and a half flat. My other COD took 10 flat, and I took 5 flat.

So I never made it to trial. No. A lot of evidence, a lot of things that were, you know, could have been done that weren't, you know, they should have been done and they didn't do them. So it kind of worked out in our behalf, you know what I mean? But we wouldn't have been able to take that plea unless My code D that took the 13 and a half flat If he didn't have took it, we had to go to the track. Because it would have set a higher standard.

It was based off him. Because he was the big fish they wanted to him. He's the one that admitted to stabbing this case. So doesn't it seem a little unfair that he only got three and a half more years than you? No, I got five. Oh, you got five years? I got five flat. My other, my other coach.

he got 10 and 13 and a half flat is what he took. So you got five years? Okay. Listen, I take 13 now. When I first went to court and they were telling us, you're listening 18 in life right now. That's what they were saying to you. Yeah, that's your offer. I literally told my lawyer, y'all take 18 flat right now.

Without that, he's like, whoa, let's go to it. Let's figure this out. This is like my second month in, bro. And how old are you? 18, 19? 19. 19 years old and you're looking down life in prison? Yeah, but I would have took anything.

without that I'm on. 18 I would have been home around this time. You think your lawyer saved you from that? The fact that he was an 18B lawyer and the fact that my other two G0Ds had paid lawyers, yeah, the gods were with me. Wow. So you take that deal, where do they send you?

Do you do your time at Rikers or do they send you to the house? So no, I don't know. So you go to Rikers. I was on Rikers of fighting that for about a year and some change, right? So as soon as you get sentenced, 30 days, you're out of it. You're going to downstate or Ulster. In my case, I want to downstate.

It's just a reception. You go there, they classify you to see where you're going to go, what your behavior is like, all that good shit, and then they place you wherever you're going to go. I, fortunately enough, went to Fishgill Correctional Facility. A lot of lifers, a lot of old-timers, things can still go down, but, you know, it was close to the city. I wasn't getting any visits. I didn't have anybody come see me, but it was good that it felt like I was closer to the city. heard a lot of stories about the CEOs further up top.

Horrible, horrible things having up there, beat up squads. You know, they're in a gang in themselves, you know what I mean? Those CEOs, they take matters into their own hand and set the bar and, you know, put a pretty thick atmosphere of fear when it comes to them. I was actually in Fishgill for three and a half years out of that five. and out of the three years, three inmates got killed by the COs. By the COs? Yeah. How does a CO kill a prison inmate?

So a lot of the times they say they hang themselves or they fell down the steps. These particular times, two of these times were by hanging in, and then another one was by falling and tripping down the steps with cups on. They had a real bad beat a squad of Fishgill. a lot of weirdness, you know, they're all related, they all, you know, married to each other

or some way somehow, a cousin of a cousin. This particular seal that worked a box, his wife worked the yard. I guess this kid said something, or she just didn't like him, and she went to her husband after he wants, she sent him to the box,

and then when he got there, he told her that, told her husband that he flurred with her. That was a rap after that, though. He mysteriously hung himself. So there's just, so much corruptness by these prison guards. Yeah.

Do they treat gang members any differently? Do you guys have any pull? Do you have leverage as a gang members? Honestly, you're not fucked with as much. It's really loners, guys that don't have anybody, nobody that's associated or just, you know, they feel like they know that they can get away with it. So, like, if you're a hot-head kid that doesn't know his ass from his elbows

and he's got his pants sagging and, doesn't know shit that's a possibility who somebody can get gotten. They look for those particular weak, vulnerable people. And I don't know if physically. I mean, you know, just emotional letters being written or any kind of contract with the outside free world. You know, they know. A lot of them have serial killer tendencies.

They just keep on doing it. Like, if you look into anything that comes up with New York State Department of Corrections, their beat-o squads are notorious. The guards themselves. And no one's doing anything about this? What can you do? You can pop off and die? I mean, like, there's no oversight committees?

They're not looking at this. So, you know, the CEOs play games, and grievances get checked. If they know they're fucking with you, they're going to make sure that they check your mail before it goes out. So if you're right to Albany, to the deputy of the deputies, It's not going to make it. If you're in a box and you're trying to drop a slip for a grievance, it's not going to make it. I'm trying to mail a letter out.

It's not going to make it. And have you witnessed that first hand? The letter never makes it. And what do you do? Can you speak up in that situation? It's so corrupt to the point where, like I said, they're all related, bro. It's like a spider web, bro. Like, you'll get caught.

Like, if they don't fuck with you and, like, if they don't fuck with you and, you, you're on the radar? I don't know what to tell you, girl. Wow. Now, something I'm interested in, too, is that when I got to prison, like, because I had tattoos and stuff, they ask, you know, gang affiliated this and that. What's it act, that intake process like for someone that's actually in a gang? When they ask you, walk us through from the minute you enter and how that works. So on Raggers Island, um, it usually within the, the inmates view, you don't really say whether you're affiliated or not, you just figure it out. So it kind of makes the ride a little bit more bumpy,

but it makes it a little bit more entertaining. So those who are related, game related, you don't really say, you don't say, hey, I'm, because then I'll put you in a house that's favorable. You know what I mean? Like, oh, you're going to that house with your guys. So a lot of guys that are like, you know, against the bullshit with the police,

they won't say nothing, and I just have to figure it out. You usually probably go to a house that just, But if you're jacketed as a gang member, there's no way around it. But if you're not, you're just surfing and you're gang-related, it's at your own risk. Now, how do other gang members verify that you're an active gang member? In Ragazana? Anywhere, at any prison you were in.

New York State is different, man. Everybody pretty much says to themselves, you know, you have certain individuals that, you know, click up and organize and stuff like that but in all actual actually everybody's into themselves everybody's locked in in bro like new york state is a very we have single-man cells we don't have double-s oh you guys have single man's yeah we um those attica rights uh you know they they made a lot of things favorable for uh you know doing time and really trying to get yourself together and rehabilitating yourself yeah um programs there's a lot of programs stuff like that but uh Yeah, pretty much everybody, you know, if you're not putting yourself in gangs or any kind of homosexual activity or gambling, you know, you're good to go, girl.

Why are inmates so against homosexual behavior? It opens up a lot of doors in a place where you shouldn't be opening up doors. There has to be a line in the sand. Unfortunately, you know, teaches them. You know, everybody has their own style. but, you know, there it's, there's no, there is no room for error. So there's not going to be any kind of misconceptions of anything. And you're not going to put yourself in a situation that possibly could lead to a rumor or allegation.

But we hear, so we hear that concept, right? But then it seems like it's acceptable when certain guys are about like the gay for this day. I've never experienced that. Never? Okay. Because in the Fed, sometimes, like, there'd be some, like, gay. gang members high up that they don't get looked at because they're allowed to do that. So you know what?

There was a guy that I was in a facility with. He had a long period of time. He had a life on the end. He had a beautiful wife. He was getting trailers. They were coming in, seeing him every time there was a visit. And he decided to pick up a relationship in a yard, man. With another man.

With another man. And what happened when everyone found out? Everybody just keeps shut, bro. As long as you don't come over here. it, you know what I mean, do your own thing, but it left the understanding of now people know how to deal with that, you know what I mean, whether if he was, you know, um, liked or dislike before, now it's like, it's neutral. I don't even have to worry about you because you're in another category, you know what I mean? But people still do business with him on the yard?

Or is he, like, totally blacklisted and nothing can happen? I'm pretty sure. It's some, you know, some way somehow through the chain, he'll get what he's. wants. And, you know, there's a lot of people that don't care about that. They're about their money, but there is a line that they know that would never be passed. And what about you for money? What was your prison hustle? I was broke as shit, bro. So you must have to do something for money. So what I was doing was I created a store. I started off with honey buns and bags of chips and, you know, cakes and stuff. And then, you know, New York State, we're allowed to cook. We have stoves and shit. Wait, you have a stove in prison?

So we have pots, we have pans and we have these two eyes, you know, the portable camping eyes, you just plug in and you just... Like a hot stove, a hot stove. A hot stove, yeah, we get those and then some jails even have the griddle. So, you know, we do stuff like that. So I started off with, you know, movie night kind of products, you know what I'm saying? Chips and honey buns and stuff like that. And then I just started growing and growing.

And then, you know, that was pretty much it. I didn't really do anything else. I worked in the mess hole. I went to the boxer stealing some ground beef out of the goddamn messhole. Going back to my unit, I had in my net bag. And it was wrapped in a plastic bag. So it was the diet tray, you know, almost like the pepper steak. So I had that in the bag, and I'm going back to my house.

I already got a sold a pound a pack. So I got like 10 pounds. I'm ready to go. CO pulls me over for a search. They check the bag. He's like, yo, you killed somebody? Like, we're, there's somebody dead right now? I'm like, nah, that's from the mess hall.

He's like, hmm, okay. I went to the box for like 30 years. In the time I was in a box, that's one of those kids got killed. From the hanging, he got beat up real bad. You can hear the, you know, flesh hitting flesh. and hitting brick. He was in a box above me. Yeah.

And then mysteriously hung himself. Wow. What's the box, like the shoe, and in New York State Prison? Usually, you have long-term, which is S-block, Shoe 2000, and then you have short-term stay, which would be, you know, regular 25, 30 days in a box, and then you're going back to your unit or back to the compound. But anything over, like, I think it's like 60 or 90 days, you're going to another jail. You'll go to that particular box that's a jail in itself, and then from there they'll ship you off to wherever they're going to send.

And you're just alone in the cell all day. So in those you have, in the S block, you have double bunk. But you can always say, listen, I'm not bunking with nobody. And they don't fight that. They say, okay, no, probably. No, it depends on how much you want to put up fight. It depends on how serious you are. Like, if you got fucking 90 days, that would be.

be pretty stupid, you know what I mean? But if you got to stay, you know what I mean? You stab somebody or cut somebody. You got a year or two in the box. I don't want nobody in. And did you take a cell mate or no? So when I went to the box, yeah. Oh, so the short-term stay, I had single.

But on this recent bit that I did when I went to Walkill, I had to go to the ass block. I had gotten to a fight in the yard, almost lost my merit. Yeah, but I had to bunk up with somebody. What does it mean to lose your merit? Is that your good time? So your merit is like a good time, like a good time before your CR. So like your CR is your good time, your conditional release date.

With good time not being taken, you can do 85% of your time. With a merit, you do like 65. So it all depends on whether you have the programs in or, you know, you got whatever requirements, trade, or however many community service hours on outside gang or whatever. you can make that merit. And then you'll be considered to, you know, get out early. And you got into a fight and almost lost it. Yes, I got a tier two.

What was the fight over? How did you get involved? You know, bullshit. I was sticking up for somebody that, so how could I say this? With a group of guys that were talking shit about someone that wasn't there, I felt that wasn't right.

And I said, yo, if y'all going to be talking shit, I should be talking to the person's face instead of doing this bullshit, meaning bullshit behind her back. So like, all right, come to the yard. Oh, whoa. I'm like, all right, cool. Whatever you want to do, bro.

So I go out there, they're having a little situation with the guy they were talking shit about. They're trying to clean it up. You know, then they come to me and then try to figure out what's going on. I didn't like their energy, man. I'll tell you, what's up.

And they popped on me. and I beat their ass in the yard, and then I went to the box, and I ended up getting tier two, but I got 30-some days, referred, I think, like five or something, and then I went back to the same jail with the same kids that I got into the flight soon. Wow.

I actually went to the house of the person that I had the problem with. Like, they put me back in the house. I don't know if it was just because I showed out, and they felt like, you know, Maybe they needed some retaliation or something. But that never happened. I ended up going to merit.

Got my merit and I came home. What year did you come home? 2019, May 6th. Was that the last time you were ever in prison? Why did you decide to turn it all around after prison? Because you had, you lived your whole life up to then, in and out of juvenile detention, in and out of prison, getting in trouble. What did it take for you to get on the straight in the era?

Oh, my kids, bro. You had kids before you went into prison. So, yeah. So, the last sentence I just did was a one and a half to three. Grand loss ended, of fourth. I was going through hard times. Falling, you know, going into the stash was a little, you know, getting real low. So I, you know, put out some smoke signals and, you know, somebody let me know somebody.

And then I went and I did what I had to do, but he ended up telling on it, you. plugged, you know, he got caught up and we told them. So I ended up taking one and a half to three. In the process of that, I had just got my kids from their mother. They were being abused by their mother. So I got them a month. Police come knocking on my door. I go to the door.

I kind of knew what it was, but I was like, you know what? Let's see what's about. Go down there. I'm like, yeah, this movie got. I'm like, all right. So they bring me in, I bail out. I'm going to court for this, right? And then I'm also going to family court for my kids.

They're being abused by their mother, so they're with me. Now when I realized that I'm going to end up doing some time, I have to let them know, you'll listen. I don't have anybody to watch them. You know what I mean? I'm going to go do this time. I think it'd be best hopefully their mother learned from this situation. And, you know, they don't have to go in a system.

So they end up giving her back to their mothers. I end up turning myself in, so 90 days on that bid, they get taken away from her. So they're in the system while I'm doing a bid and I'm trying to get home as soon as possible, bro. That probably brought a flood back of memories to you when you were in the system. I felt like a piece of shit, bro. I felt like a failure, you know what I mean? I went through this shit and now my kids are kind of going through the same shit. You know what I mean?

So it's like, so I'm like, yeah, I have to get home as soon as possible. So I'm not trying to fuck around. I'm not, you know what I mean? Always call out some mandatory. So, you know, I'm already on that time. Always everywhere I go. So that's not a problem. But like anything else after this losing a good time, I'm like, yo, my kids are going to be put in, like, for adoption, bro.

So I'm fighting for this merit. I'm trying to get everything I need. and then that shit happens. I'm thinking, yo, it's over, bro. I'm going to end up doing three years. They're going to end up going to this system and getting awards to the state because you only have two years after kids are put in the system.

They have a permanency hearings. And if they don't find a conclusion of what's going to happen whether or not these kids are going back to their family or are they going to go to put up for adoption, we've got to figure it out. We only got two years to do that. So I came home May 6th, I was in the courts, May 6, putting in petitions and making sure that, you know,

none of that stuff happened. I started getting visitation. And then they finally came home with me, and they've been home with me ever since. And what did you end up getting into for work? So I'm in the union. I do a construction. I'm a laborer, 731. Was it hard to get into that with someone with an attempted murder charge on your record,

among a lot of other criminal charges? No, so for guys like me that, you know, had rough lives and, you know, had to make it, by any means necessary, and they got some lemishes, if you ain't got no fucking sex offense or, you know, some heinous, serious, crazy, that's where you would want to be, bro. You wouldn't want to go to construction. I mean, it's not the, you know, ideal thing to do, but that's... There's nothing wrong with construction, man. Nothing at all.

you know, working hard, getting into that labor and everything. My body does not agree with that, but my mind does. But I'm sure it feels good to go work hard, provide for your kids, be there for them, give them a childhood that you weren't able to get yourself. Without a doubt. I mean, that's got to be a great feeling. And it gives hope to other people because I get a lot of messages from people that say they can't find work or they're struggling to find work.

And I'm sure this is going to be reassuring for them. It's all what you put into it. And honestly, if you want to work there are, there's jobs and companies that will hire you. But when it comes to the union, like, you have to. So the way I got into the union was they were having a lottery. Back in 2014, they had 300 applications. Out of 300 applications, 30 would get chosen. I stood on that line for a whole day, right?

in the snow. That's like one of the only ways other than really having like a father or a brother or my uncle that's in a union. That's like the only way you can really get in, bro. You think it was because you were determined that you did that? Without a doubt. Because there's a lot of people in your position that can't do that, that can't get themselves up and sit there and do it and get a good paying job.

That doesn't make sense to me. Because if you want something enough, you would definitely go and get it, bro. How's your relationship? relationship with your kids now? Good. You know, kids are kids. They're growing up. So my son is being moved up a grade.

He got skipped. He's doing fantastic at school. He's straight shooter. You know what I mean? So I'm happy about that. My daughter, she's doing great. She's doing great in school. She's into the fashion thing.

And then my oldest daughter, she's doing her thing. She's into like cosmetology and all this other stuff. So I'm happy, bro. you know um have you envisioned what that conversation's going to look like when you sit down kind of tell them more about your past and say hey this is what your father did and this is how i'm going to be a better person so because of the severity of what they went through um i try to be in rain with honesty and and not you know clouding or idolizing things um i'm trying to give them in slow doses but i don't lot of them about what I went through, about, you know, the grandmother, the grandfather, what I

went through, foster homes, the system in general. Small doses, but it's all truth. Yeah. I can't, you know, I don't know anything else, really. What do you think your message is to someone that's, you know, listening and watching this? They hear your story. They hear where you came from, what you went through and who you are now. What do you want them to take away from this? I would have to say that if you really want something, you can manifest it. You can manifest it, right, but you have to put into work. There has to be, you know, opportunity and stuff, but sometimes you have to just be patient, you know what I mean? But it's all what you put into it is what you're going to get out of it. If you self-loat and are depressed and pouring me and I can't get

out of this, that's where you're going to stay, bro. You know what I mean? Sometimes you just got to shake that shit off and just keep on trucking, you know what I mean? It's hard to say that to a grown man. You know what I mean? A child is different. It's something that they can, you know, eventually conceive. But it has a lot to do with willpower, bro. How does it make you feel when people judge you because of your past?

Because I'm sure that happens. Like whether it's an employer or a woman or anything, people that meet you. I know that they can go through the shoes that I walk in. You know what I mean? They not even do. just for the week, bro. You know what I mean? So I don't take it personal.

It is, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, that, you know, they can't empathize. Does it hurt you though when they, when they, when people don't give you a chance? Um, honestly, I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to take a chance from someone, uh, that doesn't really have the best interest to me in the first place, you know what mean? I mean, it would have to be that, uh, that, uh, that person that wants something to be, uh, you know, perpetuated in a good way.

Yeah, it's like that old saying, you know, why would you want someone that doesn't want you in your life? Exactly. So if that person's not willing to accept who you are for what you did and who you are now, then why even bother and waste of energy. Yeah, it actually puts you in debt, bro. It's like an anchor, a ball and anchor, you know what I mean? Absolutely. Well, Will, thank you so much for coming on the show today, man.

It's great talking you. Thank you for reaching out to us to come on the show and share your story. I know it could be a little intimidating and you don't know what to expect, hopefully this experience has been good for you. Oh, yeah. Shaking it off. Yeah, no, it's great, man. And, you know, safe travels back to New York.

And you're getting ready to start a podcast yourself. Yeah, so I have something that's up and running now. It's called stuck in the system. I'm getting into the group of talking about things that I've been through and then exposing the system for what it really is on all aspects. When it comes to, you know, just the social aspect of it all the way to the prison aspect of it. It's all connected. You know what I mean?

Yeah, and we'll plug all your information into the bio. People can check it out. You're on YouTube, right? Yeah, YouTube, TikTok and Instagram as well. Awesome, man. Well, we look forward to it and, you know, wishing you the best of success. Thank you, baby.