Locked In with Ian Bick - Getaway Driver Sentenced to 144 Years in Prison Shares Insane Survival Story | Chris Willars

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

In this shocking and revealing video, we delve into the extraordinary story of a robbery getaway driver who received a staggering 144-year prison sentence. Discover how he coped with the harsh realities of life behind bars, the lessons he learned, and his journey towards personal redemption. From intense struggles to unexpected revelations, this is a must-watch for anyone fascinated by true crime and human resilience Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Chris Willars: https://linktr.ee/christopher_life_willars Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:04:55 - Growing up in Chicago 00:10:09 - From Sales to Entrepreneurship 00:15:22 - A Ticket that Changed my Life 00:20:23 - The Shift into a Dark Side 00:25:39 - The Robbery Plan 00:30:58 - Turned Myself In 00:36:08 - The Complications of Street Ethics 00:40:53 - Turning Myself In and the Hardest Moment 00:45:54 - First Impressions in Prison 00:50:58 - Stand up against intimidation 00:56:06 - Pushed to the Brink 01:01:15 - Losing a Friend and Life in Prison 01:06:19 - Finding Love Inside Prison 01:11:16 - Reintegrating into the World 01:16:33 - Life after Incarceration 01:21:29 - Sharing an Incredible Story Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, you there, in the baby registry rabbit hole. The thing experienced parents agree on, a Nanit smart baby monitor. One camera, one app for video, breathing motion monitoring, and personalized sleep insights. All in one place. Check in from anywhere. Get real-time safety notifications and capture every sleepy smile and good night kiss. The best part? Those insights help you get more sleep.

Starting night one. Add it to your registry or shop at Nanit, N-A-N-I-T-com. Hey, you there, in the baby registry rabbit hole. The thing experienced parents agree on? A Nanit smart baby monitor. One camera, one app for video, breathing motion monitoring, and personalized sleep insights. All in one place.

Check in from anywhere. Get real-time safety notifications and capture every sleepy smile and good night kiss. The best part? Those insights help you get more. more sleep. Starting night one. Add it to your registry or shop at NANET.com. Met with him, his two homeboys, and we discussed it. And the reason I agreed was because the weapon was going to be a BB gun. I thought nothing of it. They showed me it. I felt even more safe, if that makes sense,

about committing this crime. That's the most blatant way I can put it. In my mind, nobody would get hurt physically. You know, I didn't think they were going to grab anybody or anything like that. And obviously nobody was going to get shot. It was a BB gun. So we discussed it and maybe about a day later, you know, as it started to get dark, we took that ride and went to, you know, went to the place, the establishment. I parked off the distance, you know, off in the distance, maybe, you know, a block away if that, you know, further away as possible, but close enough where they could get back to me. And I just remember the whole ordeal. As I called it, maybe last maybe five minutes, if that.

And it felt like five hours just waiting in that car. When they started approaching or running back, you know, I heard him screaming, let's go, let's go. As they opened the door, I'm seeing money fall out, you know, my cousin's hands. One of our co-defendants, you know, that he would actually, you know, eventually become, said he dropped his handkerchief as we're driving away. And I just remember, I'm like, man, I said, This is all bad.

Chris, welcome to Lockton, man, all the way from Georgia. Yes, sir. What a drive. I think someone recently just came from Georgia, too, a couple weekends ago. Yeah, it was a drive. Decent, though. Like 15 hours, right? Like 15, a lot of mountains, good scenery.

I give you credit, I hate the long drives. Yeah, me too. I had a road warrior with me. I had the wife with me, so. Yep, yep, and she's been in here taking photos of you, making sure you look good. We got the approval for the green light to go ahead. Yeah, she's going to sign off on everything. She's with me for sure.

Yeah, before we start, I want you to plug your nonprofit. You said you were telling me about an event coming up. If you want to give people a brief summary about it, just so it's at the top of the episode, and then we'll get into more of the meaning behind it later on. Man, thank you. Yeah. In short, the Life Unit is a 501c3 that's dedicated to pre-entry work.

We're trying to get to the youth before they go into prisons and, you know, juvenile systems. We're dedicated to reentry work for people that are coming home, and we do direct intervention, which is something. Some gang intervention, some household intervention, just anywhere where people need help. And our event on the May 28th is the wake-up. And basically we're converting the school that me and my wife own into an interactive resource center for re-entry or re-entering citizens. And we'll be speaking about certain law and legislation, just educating people and getting them some resources. You guys have a school, too?

We got a school. Wow. Yeah. I'm excited to hear about that. I'm a principal. It's weird. You're a principal. Wow. What kind of school? Is it a private school? It's a vocational school.

Okay. So, Last and Lairs of Beauty Institute, we opened 2222, and 100% passing rate just featured. And we're grateful for that, for that, breaking some records with tuition, excuse me, graduation. And we're just pushing ahead. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah, we got a great team, great educators, great culture, students are amazing. and it's been an experience, but a good one. Did you ever think years ago that you would have a school and be the head of it and running and just where you're at now?

You know, somebody recently asked that question. I've been fortunate enough to be in positions of leadership, whether it was inside or outside of things. And I got my barber's license originally to impress my wife. I was still locked up. We ended up meeting through some mutual friends. She was a cosmetologist. She had a dream. I told it if we got married, I'd come home and try to make that happen, made it happen in about two years.

And then, you know, her being my wife, kind of that old school belief, she's like, you're my husband. So you got to be the executive director. And I was like, okay, are you sure? And, you know, I had some concerns at first, but I don't know. It works. There's a real human connection there because we talk about real stuff in that school. Yeah. That's awesome.

And about the juvenile thing you were talking about just like with kids. and mentorship. I actually just started doing a program working with Danbury juveniles. I just got accepted where I'm going to be, like, helping to mentor. And I feel like that's really cool to be able to bring kids into here, into the studio. Yes. So they can see, like, there's this whole world where, you know, like if you go down this path, you could see.

That's it. Because everyone, I feel like a lot of programs are just focusing on go get a job, this and that. They don't show the entrepreneurial route. And I feel like that could save young people. more than anything else too. Because they see how cool it is. Open their eyes.

We're getting ready to introduce some kids to some data analysis and some different things, just that they don't normally see in entrepreneurship, of course, for sure. So, yeah, thank you, salute to you. We need more of that. Definitely, man. So did you grow up in Georgia or did you grow up somewhere else? No, I'm a Chicago. Chicago native, yeah, through and through, at least for the first, what, 19 years in my life, give or take.

But yeah, I grew up, blue collar, Midwestern. Where in Chicago? Like which part? We were a little bit all over the place. Things started off good. We were in the suburbs at first. Glennell Heights, cul-de-sac, you know, ranch-style house, mom and dad. And they got into some, you know, some disagreements over years like married people do.

He would be gone for certain periods of time. And then financially, we started to, you know, living situation started to go down. And eventually with him getting a divorce, we went from the suburbs and ended up on the south side, you know, little village, different places all over. And then back to Bellwood, Maywood, but I'm well-versed with the city, yeah. Did you have a lot of siblings? My story is crazy. So I was adopted. Yeah.

So through my adopted family, my mother and father that adopted me had me since I was a baby. I have two older sisters. Later on in life, my mother, or excuse me, my wife would end up finding. finding my biological parents, my mother and my father, and I found out I had six siblings, and I'm the oldest. Oh, wow. Yeah. Did you ever find out the cause for why you were put up for adoption?

Yeah, you know, it's crazy, right? Because it's part of why I do what I do, and that was part of the trauma that I grew up with, that thought, wanting to know why, right? My adoptive mother, she had told me as soon as I was like eight years old, Soon as she thought I was able to understand and take the information in. And I always had that thought, why? And it kind of lingered with me throughout my teenage years as well. When I finally met her, it was just that she was young.

She was 17. You know, she was a girl from the country. Parents, you know, Caucasian. She went to the city. She fell in love with a guy from, you know, black guy from Chicago. They weren't too open about that at first. So that was the beginning of that. Did you ever find out about your dad?

Yeah, man. I met both of them, like I said, met him. Unfortunately, my father, dealing with some stuff, some substance abuse things, alcohol. Seen it linger or going to some of my siblings as well. But got to speak to them as much as we can, try to make those connections. But, you know, it's a process, you know. Did you look at, after finding out you had real parents, biological parents, did you, look at your adoptive parents any differently?

No, man. My adoptive parents are, I mean, my father passed now, but, you know, they did a great job. To this day, my mother, she's never left my side, never left, you know, always had my back. So that's, that's mom and dad, you know, that family, that was family. And I met my biological parents and family when I was 36. So, you know, I was kind of already well in life and some experiences. and it was more about at that point just knowing where I came from and having some more identity. Absolutely.

How much of effect do you think it had on you that you moved from the suburbs of Chicago to like the outside of scope of it where it was a little bit more maybe crime infested or anything dangerous? Yeah. So we know the environment and certain things that are surrounding obviously have an impact. And you just spoke about juveniles and exposing them to certain things. at first I saw opportunity. You know, I was playing soccer and doing these sports. It was a different type of community.

You know, we didn't necessarily have to lock the doors. I'm sure we did, but there was no crime, you know. And then we went from the house to the townhouse, and you'd see a little graffiti in the neighborhood, you know. Parents still trying to rectify some things financially. And then we went to an apartment on Gunderson Ave and seven apartment complexes. and, you know, the hallways are smelling like piss and graffiti on the walls and different

things that you see. And, yeah, it had definitely had an effect. You know, you're watching your parents struggling. You're watching them not be together. The environment's messed up. You walk out your door. It used to be a backyard. You know, your dog out there.

Now you can't have a dog at the apartments and, you know, it's broken bottles and whatever else in the parking lot. So, yeah. How would your friends? friends at that time describe you as a kid? I was the friend. I was like the leader of the bunch. I was always somebody that could connect with anybody for the most part.

And I was the one that parents loved, but I was also the one that was really good at being shifty, right? I helped take the trash out, you know, work a job after school, but after that job after school, I was in the streets, you know, or whatever. But to my friends, just loyal, I would be, I would be the one that would kind of challenge my friends. And I was, when we were younger, kind of like the mastermind of the group, a little bit, as they say. The troublemaker? I don't know if I was as much, because it would be positive things. I just always had a plan.

Yeah, just always, whichever way the wind blew for the day. And that became kind of the dangerous thing For me, I was good at being good, but I could be good at being bad as well. Were you entrepreneurial at all as a kid? Yeah, well, yeah. Started, you know, I remember drawing pictures. That was like my first, because somebody asked me my first entrepreneurial memory. And I had drew some pictures of some ninjas. I don't know why.

And I sat them on the table and was selling them, you know, the neighbors or whatever. But that translated. It translated into selling candy at school. I did that too. Yeah, red hot, flaming chito, sprites was my number one combination seller. And then it, you know, it went to other things. You know, it went into weed or really that was the extent. But entrepreneur, I'd say, for the most part, through and through in some way.

Why do you think it went into weed? Like, why couldn't it just go into something that was legal, like, or open up something or, I don't know, do I get a job or anything like that? Why do you think a transition there? What was the mindset? Yeah, well, the environment, like we just spoke, the environment decreased, and then it was just supplying demand. I paid attention to people, and I noticed that half the people that were coming to me to get snacks were high.

So I might as well, you know, give them the two, so to say, and be at one-stop shop. And that was just kind of my mindset. And then watching mom working two jobs. keeping the roof over our head, but no new school clothes, you know, certain nights, nothing really in the house to eat. So there was an urgency to want to, you know, kind of make things better. And I seen that as an opportunity. Did you have any hobbies or passions at that age? Man, I was an athlete once upon a time, a long time ago. I was just, I was an athlete,

scholastically excelled. Man, always A's and B's. But I would, I would. I was just, I was an athlete, scholastically. excelled. Man, always A's and B's. But I was, I think I always had like ADHD or certain things wouldn't keep my attention for long and I'd go to the next. Back then I'd call it wanting to go be good at something else or Matt, but now I know I kind of, back then I had that quitter's mentality. I didn't really see things through.

But hobbies, athletics. Hey, you there. In the baby registry rabbit hole. The thing experienced person. parents agree on, a Nanit smart baby monitor. One camera, one app for video, breathing motion monitoring, and personalized sleep insights. All in one place. Check in from anywhere. Get real-time safety notifications and capture every sleepy smile and good night kiss. The best part, those insights help you get more sleep, starting night one. Add it to your registry or shop at

nanit.com. Hey, you there, in the baby registry rabbit hole. The thing experienced parents agree on, a Nanit smart baby monitor. One camera, one app for video, breathing motion monitoring, and personalized sleep insights. All in one place. Check in from anywhere. Get real-time safety notifications and capture every sleepy smile and good night kiss. The best part? Those insights help you get more sleep.

Starting night one. Add it to your registry or shop at Nanit, N-A-N-I-T.com. Things like that, yeah. Did you end up graduating high school? No. So in high school, became an angry teenager once my father was all the way out the household and started getting to a lot of fights. One particular fight kind of ended everything for me at the school, though I didn't initiate it. It was kind of like the final straw.

And I was given an opportunity right there basically on the spot because I couldn't return to that school district. That's how bad the fight was. got injured. To either go to a program called Lincoln's Challenge Academy, which was basically, I would say, like a shock treatment program. It's six months, and it's ran by the Army National Guard. And if you graduate it, if you can make it through, you get your GED, stipend, they help with job placement, stuff like that, but it's intense.

It was either that or go to court. And, you know, mom was like, no, you're going to this program. And a part of me was good with it. I was angry because of my environment. And as much as I didn't want to get sent to this program where I'd only be home two weekends out the next six months, I was already tired as a kid. And looking, because I'm big on mental health now,

I know I had, you know, suffered from depression and certain things back then. And I just wanted to change. So even that was welcomed at the moment. And you completed the program? I did. I did complete the program, got my GED excelled, as the quote-unquote Valley Victorian or whatever.

You know, they called the student team leader. And from there, prior to me graduating, had went to a job fair, met some recruiters from the armed forces, was originally getting ready to go into the Marines, and then an Air Force guy came, and he's like, man, you scored, you know, you scored well on the ASVAB. You can come here and you won't get shot at. We got a little bit sweeter over here.

So at 17 from that program, told my mother I wanted to go into the military, had her come sign a permission form because I wasn't yet an adult. And I was already on the list to go into the service from there. And do you actually end up going into the service? Yeah. I ended up going to the Air Force, United States Air Force, Active Duty. Ironically enough, I was on the way into security forces. I had this idea that I was going to be law enforcement and go after, you know, people that did things of kids and women and stuff. I was going to be FBI.

And a week before I went into a basic training, ended up getting pulled over with a girlfriend of mine. I was in a passenger seat. And the officer said I wasn't wearing a seatbelt, which I was. And what it was was was I was in Chicago. Chicago to this day, it's still a segregated city. And depending on where you're at, it could be a situation. And basically the cops said I was a little too dark to be with her.

Wrote me a ticket and that one ticket caused me to have to get a waiver to go into the military and change my career path. Just because of a ticket. One ticket. It wasn't like an actual charge. It was just literally like a violation. One ticket. They were that strict back then. So I was committed.

I had signed a six-year contract to go into security forces, messed that up. But because I still signed a contract, now I had to go into the mechanics field, which I wasn't. It wasn't something I was passionate about. So do you think that that moment when the cop did that was the trigger moment of your story, like where everything starts to kind of turn? Like you had a plan, maybe you had a little rockiness in high school, but then you figured it out, you're on a stray and arrow, and then all of a sudden something cuts it to blow up your path. Yeah, you are the first person to ask that, and I would say, yeah, through therapy,

I identified that as sort of the linchpin or that moment because I knew I was in good standing. Didn't have any issues with law enforcement up until then for real. And I'm getting ready to go serve the country. I'm not doing anything. I'm just coming, you know, and it left a very bitter taste in my mouth. So even when I went into the military, I kind of, I had this rebellious streak because I automatically, as a young man, attached military law enforcement, I grouped it all together. And over some time, I'd see some similarities there too. And it's something to think about for friends and family to keep an eye out

for those close to them that go through something that might not seem traumatic in the moment, but just could be getting fired from a job, anything, anything, not getting into the school they wanted, you know, a breakup, check on those people because that could literally derail an entire life. Most definitely, most definitely, yeah. So what happens now? Next? Military was good. Again, I've always been a smart guy, so I found a way to get through it. The scholastic portions, tech school scored well, but I was rebellious.

Every chance we had an opportunity to go off base, like during tech school after basic, we were on the streets. We were in California, Southern California, 805 near the beach, and it was beautiful. and as soon as we could run off, you know, the base, we're going to live a separate lifestyle. You know, me and my home boys, we're in the military, but a lot of us got girlfriends, situations. And I remember also thinking when I went to the military

that it was going to be some magic fixer-up thing, fixing situation to my circumstance. I thought I was going to be around some, I don't know, leadership, mental, in my mind, even then, no, that wasn't a situation. There was a large percentage of people in the military. We were all partying, chilling. It was a bunch of us. We found a way to make it from the hood, you know,

and we're in the military. And a lot of us for the first time, we're on our own. We're outside of where we lived. And it was just, it was a different type of lifestyle. Ended up getting us some trouble. Getting stationed in my not North Dakota, going from Cali to there. I was even more kind of like over the situation of the military. military. I did good in my job, but I was getting in trouble off base.

Ended up getting into some fights again, kind of that repetitive nature. Angry, alcohol involved, just one of those things until eventually the military said, all right, that's enough. You're good when you're on base, but when you're not, we can't handle you. So they ended up giving me a general discharge under honorable conditions, which is like a step under. So it wasn't like a dishonorable discharge? Yeah, it wasn't a dishonorable because I did well. When I was at my job, things were going on, I was enlisted during 9-11, certain things going on. I stepped up.

But outside of that, just like when I was in school as a juvenile, once that portion of the day was over, I was a completely different person. How'd that make you feel when that happened? I knew it was coming. I'm somebody that, in hindsight, and I speak so much. about mental health when I'm out here in different things, I was depressed. And looking back, understanding what depression is, I can see what it was then. It was untreated. It was festering. So I had already given up on a situation before they even, you know, made that call. And that's why I continued to get in trouble off base. I was engaged and, you know, sabotaged that.

I had very self-sabotaging ways during this portion of my life. So it was just like, all right, when I got kicked out of the military, the only portion that made me more, even more, resent for it, bitter to the entire process was my mother had moved from Chicago to Virginia. So me going back to Chicago, I know I didn't have any family anymore out there that I could stay with stuff like that. So I had to go back to Virginia where my mother was at, family. So that was the connecting piece of me, you know, going further and further down the whole

mentally, if you will. Do you think if you stayed in Chicago, like went back to Chicago, would have had an alternate outcome? Um, no, that would have been all bad, too. Um, you know, as the story goes, when I ended up going to prison, my mother, you know, looked at me and told me, she said, I know without a shadow of doubt, you may not understand this, but it saved your life. Going to prison. Yeah, because the level of anger that I had, and that's why, you know, presently I fight to go into these spaces, whether it's in people, you know, parents and children, schools, because I understand it. And I understand when it's not treated and it's looked over and it's unaddressed. And, man, it was just a bad situation all in all, yeah. So you get to Virginia, what happens? Man, so this is when things start really shifting. And how old are you?

I'm 19. Oh, so you're already in and out of the service by the time you're 19? By the time I'm 19. Wow. Yeah. So I enlisted at 17. I'm out at 19. I'm in Virginia finally.

And I'm now living, I go from, you know, traveling, having my own space at dorm, but it's still, it's nice to now living with my mother, my grandmother, my uncle, and my cousin. And my cousin and myself, two grown men, I'm 19, he's 28. We share a room. and my grandmother's house as small as it is. And looking back, this, it resembled a jail cell. It was two bunks and it was him. He might as well been my celly, you know, and the conversation was what I call hopeless.

You know, he was older without a plan. Or delusions of grander. And I was that angry, rebellious teen that was finally around some older family, didn't want to be out here anyways. And as much as I try to, to deny him certain things he would bring up that he wanted to do in the streets or whatever eventually you know is that angry rebellious kid i just wanted to be loyal to my cousin and um you know meeting him

being around that family he was into some stuff in the streets and that's kind of what led me to taking that first step out there and was he riding with like a gang or anyone or he was just solo just on the street when you say street what does that mean well the street to me is just being out there doing things you're not supposed to be done You know, just being in an environment, just breaking law, whatever it is. He was hustling. He was telling me how he was robbing some people. And he had a couple of homeboys with him.

They were all older than me. And, you know, they were into what they were into. Me, on the other hand, I wasn't yet. It was more, they were the only people around that I could hang out with that I knew outside of my girlfriend in Virginia. So, you know, being around him, his homeboys, it was just that, that common. conversation hearing them and them constantly trying to get me to go along for the ride. Yeah, a guy that's fresh out of the military, I'm assuming that you had some morals and you'd be resistant to that because you knew right from wrong.

Yeah, it was a tug of war. You know, again, through all this, through this chapter of my life, I never moved like that. Whatever they were into, I sold a little weed, stuff like that here, but never thought about robbing anybody. Never thought about, you know, picking up a gun, never thought about, you know, any of these things. So it was a different type of conversation. And like I said, just over time me being the youngest, I kind of eventually fed into it. How did it feel when you eventually shifted into that kind of dark side when you fed into it, when you went from, you know, that good, troubled, still troubled person with inner issues to now physically expressing those issues? Yeah. So my cousin, it was a little troubled person, it was a

It was more I was annoyed over time, and I wanted the noise to stop. Like I said, we were sharing a room no bigger, you know, than the average-sized bedroom. And he would watch mob flicks and gangster movies. And his conversation was constantly, we got to make money. You know, I want to get my own spot. We got to do this because. And me wanting the noise to stop finally. And he approached me one day because I had a vehicle.

he didn't. And he was like, look, I just want you to drive me and my homeboys to this spot. We're going to be in and out. That's it. Nothing else is going on. Nobody's going to be hurt. We're not even going to have any bullets in the gun. Blah, blah. I listened to him. And at first, I was like, man, but when are you going to stop? You don't stop with the, like, this is going to lead us nowhere. And he continued on for about two, three days. And finally, I said, man, you know, excuse my mind, but fuck it. You want to go. Let's go. And I said, just leave me alone after that, bro. I said, whatever we got to do.

I said, because I'm tired of it, bro. And I can't leave. I'm stuck here in this room with you. And it's too much, man. Let's make this move so you can go. And that's what it is. So you make the move, it's a robbery, I'm assuming? Yeah.

So about, well, maybe two days later, after I finally said, man, I'll go for the ride or whatever, agreeing to drive them. met with him as two homeboys and we discussed it and the reason I agreed was because the weapon was going to be a BB gun I thought nothing of it they showed me it I felt even more safe if that makes sense about committing this crime that's the most blatant way I can put it in my mind nobody would get hurt physically you know I didn't think they were going to grab anybody or anything like that and obviously nobody was going to get shot it was a BB gun So we discussed it, and maybe about a day later, you know, as it started to get dark, we took that ride and went to, you know, went to the place, the establishment. I parked off the distance, you know, off in the distance, maybe, you know, a block away if that.

Further, you know, further away as possible, but close enough where they could get back to me. And I just remember the whole ordeal, as I called it, maybe last maybe five minutes, if that. And it felt like five hours just waiting in that car or waiting in that truck. When they started approaching or running back, I just heard, you know, I heard him screaming, let's go, let's go. As they opened the door, I'm seeing money fall out, you know, my cousin's hands. One of our co-defendants, you know, that he would actually, you know, eventually become, said he dropped his handkerchief as we're driving away.

and I just remember I'm like, man, I said, this is all bad. I said it's over with it. Got us through, you know, got us back safely, dropped them off. My cousin was staying with his homeboy or whatever at the time. That was actually the last time he'd be staying with my grandmothers. I went back, though. And the whole night, it was just paranoia. It was me looking out my window every time a car drove by, you know,

headlight went by anything like that. Yeah. And then what happens after that? Is that where you get arrested from this instant? Or do you go back and on the saddle to become a getaway driver yet again? Man, so all in all, it was two situations. One of them was an establishment, another situation that I ended up getting pulled into the very next day. It was actually an argument that turned into, you know, somebody taking a cousin, taking something back.

And that's a robbery. One thing that I do now when I educate people about these robbery charges, too, side note is when you get a robbery offense, it's not for the building or the establishment or the house. It's for each individual there. So from two incidences, in short, I ended up getting charged with six robberies. But I didn't get arrested right then. I would say maybe a week later, after everything had settled, everybody was calm. Nothing else was going on, at least on my end. the police were called to my cousin's new apartment,

which he was able to get. With the money. Save now at Whole Foods Market. It's the summer splash event. With great everyday prices on 365 brand ground beef for the grill and ice cream for dessert. They have yellow sales signs on ready to cook beef or chicken kebabs too. Level up with savory marinate, spices, and rubs.

And complete your cookout with a crowd-pleasing cherry pie and their balsamic chicken salad. Available at the prepared foods counter. Get Summer Splash Savings Now at Whole Foods Market. Hey, you there in the baby registry rabbit hole. The thing experienced parents agree on? A nanit smart baby monitor. One camera, one app for video, breathing motion monitoring,

and personalized sleep insights. All in one place. Check in from anywhere. Get real-time safety notifications and capture every sleepy smile and good night kiss. The best part, those insights help you get more sleep, starting night one. Add it to your registry or shop at NANET, N-A-N-I-T-com. With the money.

Evidently, a noise complaint had been made. One of his friends, one of our co-defendants and his child's mother and their infant had moved in with my cousin in the other bedroom. Noise complaint gets made from one of the neighbor's loud music. cops come to my cousin's new apartment, knock on a door, smell weed, hear the baby crying. That gave them a reason, you know, to enter the dwelling. When they went into the dwelling, and this is what I got after the fact, they began to do a search because they smelled. They found a bong, something like that, whatever it was.

And they also found a blue money bag that evidently my cousin decided to keep or his co-defendant there at the apartment. after they moved in. Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. So they find that, and did they take them in right away? No, they didn't. They just tagged as evidence.

They took it. And again, this is me hearing after the fact, but now looking at motion of discovery and all these things. They took it. They really didn't say much. They collected it to whatever it was. Indictments didn't start coming until about maybe three months or three weeks to a month later. Did you think that you were in the clear by that point? Because it had been a little while since the robbers.

Out of hope and desperation, I thought I was in the clear. Because in my mind, if they found a bag there, they only know about them. How would they ever know about me? You know, so in my mind, though I know they dropped the handkerchief. There was money flying. Now I'm watching stuff that I can see on TV, you know, about crime and stuff, evidence. I'm still thinking if they go down, I won't go down. There's no way, because I never went in anywhere.

So they got this much money from the robberies to get a apartment out of it? No. They were doing some other stuff, too. And what was your share for being the driver? All in all, I would say no more than $600. That's it. That's it. And why the second one for you?

Because you had your foot down after the first one. Yeah, the second one was me picking him and his homeboys up from a spot and not knowing. It was a robbery. not knowing that they had got into an argument fight that turned into a robbery. They took something off a guy that they had kind of, yeah. Wow. So what's described to us the day you got arrested from these robberies? Man.

For me, I watched all my other co-defendants go down first. My two co-defendants ran to Florida because they were, once that bag got tagged, they were freaking out. They ended up getting hit down there. for loitering outside of a store. They didn't have anywhere to go. They were homeless. Police picked them up, put them on a plane, brought him back. Same thing with my cousin.

He ended up getting arrested. He was attempting to commit a second crime at a restaurant, attempted a strong arm rob it, and the staff there stopped it, and they hog tied them and took pictures, called the police. The staff hog tied him up? They hog tied them up. Holy cow.

Yeah, and the reason I find out they hog tied them is because the detectives came to my house, my grandmother's house, Christmas Eve, and showed me a picture of them. And, yeah, they were like, listen, we're coming. We just want you to know. And make sure when you run, you go somewhere where it's warm so we can get a vacation. So they just didn't have the evidence on to get you yet? Grand jury indictments happened or happened specific times. I think in the Commonwealth of the Virginia, I think they happened every Monday or every third, whatever the scheduling was, I was the last one to get indicted. The reason I was the last one to get indicted because they didn't know about me until one of my

co-defendants started, you know, to kind of start to talk. And what was it? They wanted a small fish like you out of this ordeal who was just a driver. Like they were applying that pressure to rat someone out when they already figured they got all the guys? It was a combination because once my co-defendant started to talk. they, my co-defendants not only started to talk about the things that I was a part of, they tried to put other things on me too out of desperation, which were things they had committed

crimes because there were things going on outside of me. So it was just, it was desperation, them trying to get their sentence down. And then with the detectives approaching me, they kind of already understood the role I played. They could kind of already see through the BS. But I didn't take that. the opportunity they gave me. And they had given me an opportunity to go home. You know, I could have went the day of,

because you asked what it was like when I got arrested, I ended up turning myself in. Once I knew I was indicted and they were out looking for me, had went to a family member's house, I went and I turned myself in, which was one of the hardest moments of my life, you know. But I would say not even two hours later, I was given the opportunity to go home and be there before dinner.

And the detective said, look, all you got to do is disagree. We know, and they knew I was ex-military, all this stuff. They could see how I was a good kid, just got caught up in some things. And when they offered me the opportunity, they slid the paper and said, yo, just sign this. I looked at them. I said, man, I don't know what you're talking about, almost with no hesitation.

And he literally put his head down, and he said, man, I'm going to ask you, you know, one more time. He said, man, do you want to go home right now before? For dinner. I don't think you understand what's about to happen, what you're caught up in. And I said, no, I don't know what you're talking about, man. And he took the paper bag, I didn't even look at it to see what was on it. And he looked at me, he said, man, you just ruined your life. And they walked out, you know. And then I was finally taking, or back to booking and fingerprinted, and it was officially underway.

Knowing everything you know now, if you were presented that offer again, if it were to happen all over again, would you take it? Something I battle with. Me now, as a business owner, husband, somebody that's not in the streets, like I say, if you're not in the streets, then you shouldn't live by that code. Back then it was more about morals principles for me, the wrong ones, you know, that were being taught. But the only reason I hesitate with that question is because a lot of the reason I didn't take that agreement, it wasn't even necessarily how the outside world would have looked at me. It was what further damage I could have caused with my family, him being my cousin, his father, my mother. And there was a thought in my mind where it was just like, man, this is our mess.

I don't want to be the one that says somebody did this. Everybody's going to stand up. And I'm, again, I'm thinking they're going to be. stand-up guys too. Now what if your child was faced with that scenario and you were the only one in the room with him or her? And she was presented that offer. What would you do?

Knowing that whole situation, your co-defendants are lying on you trying to put different things on you, you're about to go the way for, no, come home. We'll deal with the consequences out here. You know, like, when I was going through my situation, like, I just, like, you watch TV and it's always like, don't snitch, don't do this. don't do that. And then you realize, like, on TV, every, and like in the news, everyone's just trying to cut a deal to save themselves. And I just feel like there's certain scenarios where it is okay. Like, as, I feel like you shouldn't be dragging someone under that had no business doing

there. Right. But then also it goes to, like, you shouldn't have been involved in the first place. It's just such a complicated, you know, situation, you know, it's just, it's very morally compromising to kind of figure out when you're pressed with that situation. It's probably one the hardest decisions you ever have to make if you ever find yourself in that position. But I also think it's generational. Because now that when I'm mentoring these younger, younger people, there's no quote-unquote honor in the streets anymore. The mentality out there is different.

And people aren't concerned with being known as somebody that testifies, snitch, you know. So that's what makes it even scarier. That's what I tell some of these young kids that I'm mentoring that are getting ready to possibly facing some serious stuff. And there's no honor amongst thieves. And everybody's looking for the deal. I wonder if that'll ultimately end up reducing the crime rates. Knowing that, I mean, I was reading or watching a clip where the mob still operates in America,

but they don't murder people anymore. They don't kill people because they, what's the point? You're going to get caught and then you're not operating. So I wonder if that mentality is going to kind of trickle over into more and more stuff. Hope so. We'll see. I guess. And the reason I say hope so is because it's going to happen anyways.

I don't see the culture of the streets or going back to what it was at some of the old-timers, say, to the 80s or 90s. I feel like it's just going to keep going. And not only that, the scary thing is not only is there no honor, you know, in the streets, but we're seeing now a situation, I just recently seen a situation two best friends. And I was telling him, I said, man, if you're in situations like this, and he ended up being in it. And him and his co-defendant, they're both facing, you know, 10, 15 years. They told his co-defendant, hey, you get to go home.

Just put it on your man. You're going to go home to your mother, your child's mother, your kid, all that. He went home. And his home boy stuck in there. Yeah. You know, so I'm just trying to wake people up to that. When your cousins got arrested, what did your mom say to you? Did she say anything?

Like, I hope you're not involved in this? Or did she's like, I know you have something to do with us? What was her reaction to that? And you hadn't been arrested yet at the time? Yeah. So older parents, older generation, type of family didn't really talk. So even when they were seeing things, my cousin, it was still, I think, a piece of them or part of them that were in denial. Because there were parts of a point where I was saying certain things out loud.

And I was almost, I don't want to say crying out for help. But, hey, I might be going down with this, too. and my mother would breeze by, you know, not because she was a bad person and I, she wasn't wired like that. And a lot of families, they don't talk about the dark stuff. It happens. All right, let's keep going or we'll dress it when it comes. And I know a part of her was also hoping I wasn't involved in it, you know. She also probably didn't sign up for any of that when she first adopted you. I don't think any adoptive parent would ever think that this would happen to them.

Yeah, no, the, she went in, she had a nervous breakdown when I got locked up. again, somebody I was good in front of her face, right? Playing sports, excelling. Even when I ended up going to Lincoln Challenge, messing up in school, I went there, I excelled, went into the military. She never gave up hope on me. But something to that magnitude, no, there's no way she would have been prepared for that. And looking back at that moment when I turned myself in,

that was probably like the hardest part of the whole process of, incarceration for me was hearing her scream out, not understanding what's going on, me being cuffed. Even though I had to go with me to the police station and turn myself in, it didn't click. It's not real until it's real. Were you given bail at all when you turned yourself in, or was that your last free day? Last free day. When I turned down that opportunity, they made sure I knew that I turned out an opportunity. No bail, no opportunity for a breather, a commercial break.

It was that. And not only that, I wasn't offered a plea, which is abnormal for somebody like that. You know, in my case, with the robbery charge, et cetera, first-time offender. So it was no bail, no plea. So I was going to have to face this thing heads on. And I had a public defender, which. And you were going to trial? I was getting ready to go to trial.

Okay. Yeah. I ended up pleading out or pleading guilty. in front of the judge and you know basically he was able to give me a sentence and what was the sentence uh all in all total sentence was 144 years 144 years all suspended but 19 BB gun driver nobody even got touched physically that second one um it was like i said it was a group fight you know um but yeah I had never, never even touched the BB gun, ended up getting gun charges, conspiracies. Conspiracy is a bitch.

Yeah. That's how they get everyone. And this is a state case that you were charged with. It's a state case, yeah. So it's really 19 years that you get sentenced to. Yeah. I always say the whole 144 years all suspended but 19. So 19 years was the sentence to do.

Well, it's interesting that perspective because that's what the media does too. Like when they see someone get arrested, like in my case they said I was facing 120 years. I wasn't. That was just all the charges stacked up. Right. Which in some cases, they do put them all together, but in the vast majority, that's not the situation. And also in the state, they'll sentence you to a crazy amount of time, but you're only serving a fraction of that. Yeah.

So 19 years is a first-time offender. 19 years, first offender, ex-military. And like I said, never even got out the vehicle. That's insane. Yeah, that's why. Now, you had mentioned that about the cop, who. who judged you based on your skin color. Do you think that played an influence

with the judge and the prosecutor at all with the prosecution? No, I think it was just, I didn't help out. They gave me the opportunity. And it was, I remember, you know, man, you're ex-military, what are you doing? This was literally the conversation,

and that was the last olive branch, though. And once I didn't, then it was like they automatically looked at me as part of the problem. Me being from Chicago, the narrative that was thrown out there that I was a ministered society and part of this criminal organization of enterprise that was, you know, running through these cities. But again, that's the paper. I wasn't involved in everything that they were involved, you know, but I'm grouped in now.

And, you know, that's not how the criminal justice system is supposed to work. Just because you turn down, you have a right to a fair trial. And I know in my trial, in my court proceedings, my judge, who was a fairly new judge, made it a point whenever the prosecution would bring up, like, he's not taking responsibility, he's not doing this, he's not doing that. And the judge would always counter. He's asserting his amendment right to go to trial, to be present until you're proven guilty. And I think that's a big problem because it's so divided and so unfair and inconsistent. Because the media, and the media wasn't as big as it was, is now back when you were there, but plays a huge part in making someone guilty. Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah. I mean, and there are scenarios where, like, the feds aren't going to arrest someone on child pornography charges unless it's a bulletproof case. So there's an outlier where, okay, if he was arrested on that, there's a good chance that that happened.

Yeah. But some of these other ones with conspiracies, this and that, you know, it's just, it's a little too far. Yeah, it paints the picture before you even get there. And then now, social media and everything, it's amplified. How old were you when you got that sentence? I was getting ready to just turn 20. Just turned 20, 19 years. And on 19 years, how much do you have to serve in Chicago?

85%. In Illinois. In Virginia, yeah. Oh, you're in Virginia, sorry. Yep, no problem. So in the Commonwealth of Virginia, out of 19 years, I ended up having to do 85%. Ended up doing 16 years, 11 months. Was it all in one prison?

No. I did the world tour, so to say. Did you run into Jesse Crosson at all? Yeah, I worked with Jesse Crosson. You know Jesse? Oh, Jesse was my very first guest on the show. Yeah. And he's been back again, too.

Yeah, I didn't even know he was doing TikTok stuff, but I was doing some mentoring stuff with him. I love Jesse. Yeah. Were you in prison at all with him? I don't think we were, I don't know, though. His story's incredible, too, and kind of similar in a lot of ways, but he got a 32-year sentence. Yeah, there's some heavy, there's some guys that came home from behind the wall. They're doing some amazing things, for sure.

Where did they send you first? So I went straight from receiving to Sussex II State Prison, which is a level four. maximum security prison. As a first time offender. As a first time offender, never being in jail, never, no warm up, you know, prior to this whole experience, yeah. And on your first day and...

USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. Hey, you there.

in the baby registry rabbit hole. The thing experienced parents agree on, a Nanit smart baby monitor. One camera, one app for video, breathing motion monitoring, and personalized sleep insights. All in one place. Check in from anywhere.

Get real-time safety notifications and capture every sleepy smile and good night kiss. The best part? Those insights help you get more sleep. Starting night one. Add it to your registry or shop at Nanit, N-N-I-T-com.

How are people treating you looking at you? I remember getting my laundry bag after they shade my head and, you know, they get you ready to go out there on the yard. It's July. It's hot. And as soon as we opened up the laundry door or whatever to walk out the back of the building onto the boulevard, it was nothing but the sun beating down on the earth, no trees. You know how it is on prison yards. Everything's separate. Back then, guys are in Burgundy scrubs, and it's prison. You can tell.

People are arguing. It's loud. It's noisy. People on the gates. It's just, we're here now. This is it. Wait, they shave your head when you got there? Yeah, they shaved our heads.

Everyone. Yeah, they dropped us down. Well, not bald, but, yeah, 2-1 or whatever. And that's a required hair length through the whole time you're there? Commonwealth of Virginia back then. Now it's changed. You can grow your hair, but back then you couldn't even grow your beard. Really?

Yeah. No facial hair. Hair had to be, I think it was maybe an inch and a quarter length at first. But when you first come in, they even Stephen you. And they do that. And what happens if you don't comply? That's like an incident report. You're going to solitary?

Yeah, the entire process from when you get off the bus, if you don't comply, you're going straight to solitary. And the first step when you get off the bus is they bring into a, a room and they ask you to strip with a camera on you. And they basically go through orientation with you and search you why they're doing that. It's very dehumanizing for me anyways because you're surrounded by a bunch of people and they're just on you with a camcorder. Well, you know, back then. So, and then you go to medical.

They weigh you, you know, go over your medication, anything you may need. And it's laundry, barber shop, and you're getting brought to your dorm. You're going straight in there. There's no. It's just, man, it was chaos. Do you remember your first conversation with your first cellmate? Because I feel like everyone always has that interesting conversation, whether it's like what are your charges, what are the rules, what are, you know?

Yeah, my first cell made rest in peace, man. Oh, good dude. And I remember when the CO walked me into the block, he walked me down to the cell. And he didn't say anything. He was like, this is your cell. he didn't say your cell partner's here nobody was in there i looked in and the cell looked like a little apartment i was like what the heck you know and finally myself partner he waved his hand he was like what's up young and it was like the classic o-g o-head scenario right where you walk into prison you see

on movies and he's schooling i got one of them i was fortunate enough and uh oh or omar would you know eventually become in that environment almost like a mentor or he'd school me to the ways of prison. First day made sure I had a knife. Made sure I understood how to observe the pod, what to look for. Kind of started breaking down politics and just told me get ready because sooner or later, you know, somebody else is going to want to have a conversation and, man, you know, before the end of the second day he was right, some guys came and they wanted to talk. To you? Yeah, quote unquote.

To like recruit you to a gang or? Man, they just wanted to mess with me, man. When you come in, at least where I was at, every system is different. But when you come in to the system where I was at, nine times out of ten, somebody knows somebody, but I'm from out of state. I'm from Chicago. So I'm in a Virginia system.

I'm in the start of the south. It's different. Everybody's either clicked up with their city, gang, cart, whatever it is. I have no allies. And they identified that quick. These guys had been doing time, three, four, five, six, 20 years, you know, whatever they observe, oh, he doesn't, ain't nobody talking to him.

Let's go see what he's about. Let's go see what type of pressure we can apply. And how did that whole interaction go down? Man, it was, at first it seemed harmless. But I remember the old head was telling me, he said, man, be cautious of the conversation that comes your way because you don't know the motive. And, man, he gave me the game.

And I used to, for the first couple of days before this house, I used to slide my box right outside to sell. Our box was something we could keep our stuff in commissary laundry. I used to just sit on my box on my back against the wall and, you know, outside of the dorm, if you will, or the pod, away from everybody, have a book. And they came over. And at first it was like, oh, what's up? You know, where you from? It seemed like it could have been an all right conversation.

Maybe they just wanted to see if, but then it was, they started to try to joke. You know, I'm coming in the system. I don't have nothing to my name. Long John's frayed from the jail. You know, I'm just trying to figure things out how to survive here at the moment. And I just knew I couldn't let them, you know, keep jokes. I don't know you guys. You know, who are you?

I'm not bothering nobody. And I said something. They said something back, you know, and kind of let me know, you know, it could go down, chill out. And by then I was on my feet. because in what they tell you, you know, when you go to prison, like, if it go, it can go down. You know, don't even hesitate. You get into an argument. You get in anything, like, just go ahead and handle it.

But I'm outnumbered. And I remember in that moment, you know, when I stood up, it was the point of no return because now in front of the pod, you know, one, I'm standing up against these guys. And, you know, they tried to go to work on me right then and there. And you fought back? I fought back, yeah. And did you earn the respect of the group when you fought back? Yeah, the funny part is there were so many of them. They were hitting each other for the most part, right?

And we were on a pod or prison where they had gunners in the booth. So as soon as the CO identified, they shot off, you know, into the dorm or the pod. So it kind of settled things quick. I was a little lumped up. they brought me to medical. The investigator came down there and was like, look, we're about to move you,

segregation, we might have to ship you. What happened? I was like, man, I don't know what happened. We weren't messing with nobody. I just got here. He's like,

figures as much. But I knew also, if they took me, they moved me, I didn't come back in because me and the old head talking, I was going to get labeled.

I knew somehow, just instinct, because he had given me the ultimatum, that if I didn't want to go that way, I could sign a waiver and I could go back into the housing unit because I wasn't injured where I had to be hospitalized. But if anything happened to me, they wouldn't be liable. And I just knew at that moment that I was going to be here for a minute. I was going to be in prison.

And I didn't want to have the reputation of the guy that, you know, necessarily ran. And though I stood up, I was also angry. And there was a part of me I wanted to go back in that dorm. That's one of those decisions where it could literally affect your entire, you know, over a decade. If you made that decision to go to another yard, that would have followed you. Yeah, without a doubt, especially. And made your time a lot harder. Yeah, because we were at the jail hearing them talk about guys in the system,

guys that were getting ready to go back in or coming from the system to go to court. And I just knew I didn't want that reputation. You know, I needed mine intact. What were the politics that your bunkmate told you to look out for or put on to you? Yeah, the politics, everything from just people that would try to coerce, you manipulate, you try to get some stuff off you. You have predators for sure, you know, in that environment. Sussex, over 70% of that camp, they were lifers. So, you know, you had that mentality.

You had people that would try to actively recruit you, you know, into their gangs, their cars, whatever. or just befriend and get close to you for resources, you know. He was just very specific in saying, you know, I'm not here to tell you what to do, Youngen, but you might want to move this way and this is why. And he broke it down really clear, you know, down to who the big dogs were for certain cities in the block or, you know, if I got into it with such and such,

this is who I could talk to. And, yeah. Did you start becoming someone who you weren't? on the outside in prison, or did you stick to your morals and kind of went about it a different way? Use that time to work on yourself. It started in jail. I adapted to the environment so I could be in the best situation. I wanted to be the guy that could serve the trays in the dorm in jail, and I got my home boys able to do that with me, and certain perks with the COs because we'd clean the dorm. So it was just me understanding the environment and also understanding that, hey,

if I'm respectful with people, if I communicate, maybe I can get things done. So I began to be good at jail. Prison, not at first, because it was like a restart. But I immediately, that change occurred when that initial physical incident or that fight happened. Because I was immediately, if I wasn't in fighter flight, then I was definitely in fighter flight now. Because I still don't have any actual true allies on the young. yard. So I kind of, I have to have the mentality that if I'm going back into this pod, going back on the yard, like anything can happen. And in order to survive that environment, I feel like,

at least for me, I had to become a part of it. If you had to sum up like your entire prison sentence in one sentence, what would it be? In one sentence, man, I was pushed to the brink. Yeah. That's like, that's the basis of why, you know, I'm present. I do what I do as well. I was pushed to the brink. And I know thousands of us are pushed to the brink in there. And a lot of us aren't coming home better. We're coming home worse.

When was a time? Tell us about a time that you were pushed to your breaking point where you're thinking to yourself, I can't do this. But I need to do this in order to survive in there. Yeah, man. Probably the first moment, first time I lost a buddy in there.

It's hard to find people. people in prison. At least it was for me that, you know, you want to be friends with or consider your brother. And I just remember, you know, my brother, tone just good dude, positive dude. Somebody had brought light to an environment like that. And we were working in a dishroom, classic prison dishroom scene. We ended up busting trays all day. We were only too consistently at work. It was like our prison bid. And went from a situation where we were, were celebrating him because he was getting ready to go home after 10 years singing uh dr dr dr dr's explosive and just rapping and being excited telling him man i'm happy for you and that being a thursday

and then saturday the compound being locked down he was supposed to go home monday saturday the compound uh ended up getting locked down or because of the incident that occurred to him and at that moment, I didn't know the severity of it. But basically, we were on separate yards. In the way Sussex is or was back then, still is. Each pot is separated or segregated onto a different locked-in portion of the big prison yard. So he was on yard too, which was a small, small yard. I was on a big yard. There's a boulevard between us. Everybody's talking. All of a sudden, you see the gate open up during wreck time, which is abnormal unless it's wrecks over with, you know, especially on a camp. They're not just going to open the door to let somebody off for the gate.

And you see about three, four guys come on to the yard where he's at. I'm like, you know, so he was like, all right. And he's like, I'll be right back. And he's on it, you know, he's on at a few of us. You know, we're just trying to get our last words in with him before he goes home. And when he walked off towards the back of the yard, he starts talking to the group of guys that came on to the yard. the CO let on, and they ended up getting into a fight. They jumped them, and we could see this.

We're trying to scream and holler, you know, across the boulevard or whatever, but it's, man, it's a thousand people on the rec yard. And the CO's right there, you know. They beat them, and some of his homeboys were on the yard with them. And I remember this because we were screaming for certain ones of them, like, y'all go grab them, do something. After they had lumped them up, I don't know if you ever seen somebody who's kind of like knocked out, still on their feet and um he was out of it so to say and what guys were saying we couldn't hear this

part but he kept following the individuals that had jumped them and he was asking them why did they why did he was asking the one gentleman yo why did you why did you hurt me why this is what we were told and basically the guy had told him and stopped following me you know once twice brother tone didn't the guy turned around and hit him with a piece of steel in his chest Brother Tone went to the fence, I guess, to try to get the CO. We seen that part as he came from the back of the yard to the front. We were hollering for the COs. And ironically enough, at the same time we were calling for the COs,

they were coming out to call him for visitation. His parents or his family had came there on a Saturday. Last visit, it's not uncommon. People are like, what I tell this story, they're like, why did he get a visit? He's about to go home. That's just what people do sometimes. But his people were turned back and the compound was locked down because they had to get him off the yard.

And they didn't tell them why visit was canceled or why they couldn't see their loved one then. The scarier part was when they pulled him off the yard, they were trying to act like everything was okay. And they didn't know who did what. And eventually they got the guys. But by then it was too late. He was gone. He lost his life two days before he went home. And it was over a TV because people, like, why?

They know that people lose their life in prison, but I don't think people understand, like, the reasons, like how frivolous and small they are. And it was over a TV that he had promised to somebody to square away of debt. I don't know the specific details of that part of the story. I heard a couple of different things. It wasn't anything too crazy.

And instead of him giving the guy the TV that he owed, he gave it to somebody else, and I guess they figured like it was a good enough idea to take his life. Do you think that mindset that prison helped sculpt in him was the reason why he continued to pursue that guy? Because it sounded like he just got jumped. He would have been fine, maybe a little bruised up, but because he started to ask the guy and question him, that's when it took a turn for the worst. I don't know. I don't know why he was on the yard. You know, it's known. Like, when you get short, you don't go on a yard. You move a certain way. You might not check in or go to

a hole, but especially up there. So to this day, I don't know, other than, like I said, he was trying to catch people, you know, say goodbye to brothers he may not see no more. But him following them, I don't know if, I don't know if he was in his right mind, because they jumped them. Guys will screw up your time on purpose.

Oh, man. When you're close to the gate. That was the first friend that I lost. I've seen, you know, you can't tell people when you're going, everybody's not happy for you. Everybody's not going home. Everybody doesn't have family out there. Everybody's not getting visits.

There's certain things you can't, you know, you got to keep for yourself. Did that change your mindset about prison once that happened, that first friend? Yeah, it inadvertently told me that it's not over till it's over and there's no guarantee. This was a friend of mine two days. You know, before he goes home, he loses his life. After 10 years, he survived 10 years to get to the last two days. And at this point in time, I still had about 14 left. When it was close to your time to get out, what was your mindset?

Were you worried that that was going to, was that in the back of your mind? Were you on high alert? No. I fortunate enough for when it was my time to go, I had worked my way down all the way into the low, most minimal level, you know, up a road camp. So I didn't have those concerns, no. Maybe a couple fights because those young guys were coming in straight from the jail, no receiving into the prison.

There was a couple, you know, skirmishes or whatever. Nothing to that magnitude. I didn't have that concern. How much time did your co-defendants get in comparison to you? All of them got more. Two of the co-defendants ended up getting, one got 27, one got 29. My cousin ended up getting 89. 89 years?

Yeah. So he's still in prison now? Yeah, yeah. Do you guys have any relationship? No, I plan on going to visit him, no. He's reached out. I've reached back. But coming up pretty soon.

I go sit down with them and, you know, it's 20 years later, you know, he's my cousin. I've forgiven him, you know, I get it. How old is he compared to you? Is he older or younger? He's about 10 years older than me. 10 years old? Yeah. And do you have any resentment towards him?

I did at first. I ran into two of my co-defendants while I was incarcerated. And when I ran into him, I was in the bullpen. They messed up prior to our sentencing and put us in the same. And I'm not going to lie, I wanted them, you know. But I had enough common sense if I did something, obviously, if there was any chance of me going home, the judge probably wouldn't have appreciated that in the courthouse.

And my other co-defendant out the three, the one that ended up really testifying, I ran into him on Sussex, too. And it was another situation. I was praying for that moment, to be honest with you. You know, I was waiting because there was so. much resentment. But when I ran into him, the response, it was fear. And not because I'm some, it was just I had the ups on them. And when I seen that in that moment, it was like enough for me.

And then the things I'd hear about my cousin, how he was doing time, the things that were happening to him in certain spread, it's just, I don't know, I just let a lot of it go. And I hold myself accountable. You know, it's not like anybody was like, you have to go, you know. No, I still winning. I still chose to get in the truck. All those years in prison, what do you think you attribute to what kept you going, mindset-wise, mentally? I just refused to let it destroy me. I had told my mother before I went to prison in my last visitation in jail. I was like, I'm going in a man, I'm coming out one. I didn't even know what that meant. I just felt like I needed to say something to try to comfort her to let her know it was going to be all right. And

throughout the years, different things that I faced, tragedies, whatever, lost loved ones, that was the prevailing thought. You know, I just refused for my last breath to be taken in there because I watched too many, you know, people that I knew, you know, not make it out from there. You were telling me earlier that you actually met your wife now in prison. Yeah. How did that happen? Yeah, I was running a nonprofit.

From the prison walls? Yeah, yeah. You could start a nonprofit in prison? Yeah, we were doing a nonprofit. good too. Further on in my prison bid, I ended up becoming a mentor for the reentry program. Me and another buddy of mine, we started a nonprofit in there, just really teaching leadership skills, effective communication, things like things we know we needed that we weren't able to really get in there. And met her through a mutual friend. I was doing seminars in there,

doing couples workshops, stuff like that. And ironically enough, I was getting out of a six-year relationship that I was in with a somebody that was prison staff. Oh, you had a relationship with a prison staff, but no one ever found out. They found out, yeah. They found out. She ended up having to quit, and yeah, I got shipped. And you got shipped because she found out. Yeah.

Was it a correctional officer or just a regular staff member? Staff member. She worked in the kitchen, supervisor. Yeah, yeah. And you were the kitchen inmate? I was staff dining. Oh, man. That is great.

Yeah. So, yes. You had a good run, though, six years? I had a good run. Most people don't make it six years. No. Well, I didn't, we made it six years. She stuck by my side after the fact.

But, no, it didn't last six years inside because, you know, every right hand has a right hand. Every room has a vent, you know, and people started talking. But I started doing these seminars and stuff for relationships based on stuff like that. And mutual friends, because that relationship had ended. because prison is hard, especially on relationships. Ended up meeting the woman that became my wife. She was initially just going to be an advisor, outside rep for the nonprofit,

just so we can get some more stuff done. And, you know, conversation just evolved from business to personal. Wow. Yeah. And now she's the wife. Now we're about to celebrate five years, yeah. That's so cool. Yeah.

So what year did you get out of prison? And I came home right before the pandemic. Good timing. Man, January 13th, 2020. I remember the tragedy with Kobe and his daughter and the passengers. And then it seems like pandemic. The end of the world was coming. Now, you're someone that's very big on mental health,

and you seem to have really, you know, looked at a lot of things from the past and put in the work there. I'm curious of the mindset of why you think that that staff worker ended up falling for you. I think people are so curious about why people risk their jobs. Yeah. You know, for that. Do you think it was a thrill thing? Do you think she genuinely liked you?

Do you think there was something about you? Or was it just she got to know the real you that people from the outside aren't looking at? Yeah. She got to do the real me. There's this place where people are in denial that they think love and relationship and feelings just stop at a prison or at a wall. and when you're dealing with staff in a prison, whether it's correctional officers, they're in there for a certain amount of hours a day,

they're in there four or five hours or four or five days a week. You know, they're part of the environment. But the institution I was on, it was a rougher environment. To be honest with you, I would say, man, a vast majority of the women or female staff up there were dating in relationships. So it wasn't uncommon. You know, it wasn't as daring.

That's how open the camp was or loose it was. But yeah, we got to know each other for sure. And it was shared experience. It's kind of like work relationships where you're working around someone for so long. You're going to gravitate towards them. Yeah. You're spending all your time with this individual. Yeah.

And then you got to think, and this is a conversation I have because we do counseling and coaching and stuff with couples now that are in similar situations or justice impacted. When you're dealing with somebody in that way, somebody's incarcerated, somebody's not a relationship. One of the pros to it is you can learn each other's thoughts in who you are, you know, in an intellectual way if you take the time without the physical being involved. So it was able, it was, it had its strong suits. We were able to find ways to make it work, but, you know, prison ultimately is out to destroy relationships, families, et cetera. Yeah. And, you know, judges argue that it's meant to bring, to rebuild that.

They always say, like, I find it interesting when judges say, oh, we want you to be close to your family so you can rebuild those family ties. And it really just does the opposite of that. Yeah. Every prison I was ever at was at least, you know, 100 miles away from the house. You know, people had to plan to come out there. Yeah, it's by design for sure. When you got home, what was the biggest thing that changed from before? you went in. And it could be technology. It could be a mental thing, could be a physical thing.

What was that for you? Or it could be a food thing. I just like the two main things just in short, I got locked up in 2003. People barely text. I don't remember Facebook. I think Facebook didn't even exist. If it did, I wouldn't have known about it. And then I came home. It was smartphones, self-driving cars, you know, ordering men on the screen, stuff like that. But I don't. I also say the mentality of the people. I don't know if it's just me. I don't know if it's social media magnifying everything,

but it seems like people are angrier now, more agitated, more short-fused, just in a different place than where they were previous to me going in. It seemed like there was a little bit more sunshine in the world. That was a good reflection. I don't know. I might be tripping, but it's just, that's how I see it. It just seems a little bit dimmer now.

Was there challenges reintegrating into the world? Oh, yeah. Mental health. I keep going back there. I did not understand the amount of trauma that I had endured in prison until I was outside of that environment. Coming home after 17 years, spending over three years in solitary confinement, being stabbed, multiple fights, ex-gang. All these things. Now I'm coming home.

We got a mortgage. You know, I got to get a job. And that month, you know, those months prior to me coming home, I thought I had it all figured out. I was thinking when I walked out of prison, it was going to get easier. But it was worse, in a lot of ways. I was grateful for my freedom, but the pressures, PTSD now, anxiety, you know, different things I was dealing with. Oh, man, it got dark, especially those first couple years. What helped you?

All right, everyone. Welcome to ARCO rewards orientation. I'm Hannah. Whoa. Is everything okay? That's a code green. Someone just earned at least five cents a gallon in rewards. Wow. Another one? Well, that one's a code gold. The customer just redeemed savings of up to a dollar a gallon. Impressive. What does that one mean? Oh, that's just piggy. He gets excited when we talk about rewards.

Savings of up to $1 per gallon redeemable with $20 rewards dollars in your loyalty account. At participating locations, terms and conditions apply. You there. In the baby registry rabbit hole. The thing experienced parents agree on, a Nanit smart baby monitor. One camera, one app for video, breathing motion monitoring,

and personalized sleep insights. All in one place. Check in from anywhere. Get real-time safety notifications and capture every sleepy smile and good night kiss. The best part? Those insights help you get more sleep. Starting night one.

Add it to your registry or shop at Nanit, N-A-N-I-T-com. What do you think was the biggest attribution to helping you get through it? Man, just besides God, my wife, you know, my mother therapy, became aggressive with therapy, wanting to learn and understand, going to get a psych eval, learning about type 1, type 2 bipolar, different things, just learning. That was step 1. so I could learn what to address and finding that right therapist that I could have a real conversation with,

even if they maybe have not been to prison, but we could have some real conversation with. And then I went outside the box. I talked to my brothers a lot about neuropathy. I just seen Charlottomania God somebody do a special on this place in Michigan. And I went, and it changed my life. It was non-medicinal, and it just, it worked. as far as my trauma and PTSD and stuff like that. Would you recommend it to people coming out of prison?

Yeah, without a doubt. I would say I would recommend it because even with therapy, the amount of trauma that I had sustained, it was constant racing thoughts, insomnia. It was just a very difficult go at it, even though I was starting to learn more process it. And I remember it had got so bad that I didn't really want to be here. anymore. And this was after coming home from prison. And this was the Hail Mary attempt. And I went in there

and literally, I remember a couple of buddies in mine. They're like, man, you're going to do that stuff. He's like, they're going to hook stuff up to your head. You're going out there. And man, 30 minutes and a $99 fee changed my life. Yeah. Wow. So five years is a very short period of time since you've been home to create your own business, have a school, have a nonprofit. How did that evolve so quickly? Because not a lot of people can do that. Yeah, I joke with my therapist. I used to joke with my therapist.

I said a lot of my stuff comes through those manic moments or whatnot where I just start creating. I got the energy. But a lot of stuff has been what I've been doing. Prior to me coming home, the nonprofit stuff, I was in there teaching, facilitating, stuff like that. the barbering stuff that was just working with my wife actually having a plan that we wanted to work towards in the future but i've always been somebody i wasn't just focused on today and even when i was incarcerated coming home i knew

you know life didn't have to stop i didn't have to come back i can go home and do some great things and you know it's kind of like unconditional love like that your wife has shown you where it's like a lot of the people in the world would say oh 14 years in prison 15 years this in that, you know, and they're not giving guys like you a chance. Yeah. And she's just pouring that love and energy into helping you succeed. And that, you know, that's what you look for in a person, too. Yeah.

And patience. She's a fan favorite with social media. A lot of the ladies check in with her and ask her questions and stuff. But, yeah, she's the one. So what's your life like now on a day-to-day basis? How has it changed? Life now. I get to do this.

I get to do things like this. I get to lend my voice. I get to not just tell my story. I get to help tell the stories of others. I am a community organizer where I work to bring people together to educate them in hopes that they don't have to learn a lot of the lessons that I had to learn. I help create spaces for safe spaces for people that are dealing with mental health issues through my nonprofit. And I do a lot of one-on-one, a lot of mentoring, a lot of coaching.

because there's a large percentage of people that aren't educated when it comes to the justice system, and by the time they're impacted by it's too late. So with that, also I'm an executive director at the school, so a lot of principal work. But even there, it's the same. It's just mentoring. It's interacting.

It's just helping structure, you know, and really just serving the people in the building because that's what leadership is. And then one of the biggest things that I get to take part of that I'm grateful is this whole TikTok thing and social media, telling the story, educating people. We've reached over 14 million people like in the last 60 days. That's awesome.

Yeah. What do you think is the biggest misconception people have on the criminal justice system? That rehabilitation is real. There's this big misconception about rehabilitation in the system. And people need to understand. a lot of times when people come home from incarceration, they're not better. You know, they're in spaces mentally where they need help or they need education, whether it's financial literacy, whatever it is. But I would say that is the biggest misconception.

Whether it's somebody that has a loved one coming home, thinking that they're ready to come home, or somebody maybe across the aisle that says, well, they need to be in prison anyways. Well, you should still want rehabilitation to be a real thing because they're returning to the communities. Yeah. Now, if you could go back to that moment where your cousin asked you to drive the car and you said yes, what would you do? Oh, I'd say no. Even after the life you have now that everything's given you? In that hindsight, in that perspective, I would not change anything if you're asking it in that context. Yeah, in that context.

Yeah, in there, no. Because there's no way after doing 17 years, I don't think I end up. you know, doing some of the things that I'm able to do and help people the way that I am, and in turn get the help that I'm able to get. Yeah. It makes you unique. It gave you a story. Yeah, crazy one, unexpected. But, yeah.

It's funny how the universe works like that to bring us on a journey we never expect. And most people think is that's what I love about what I do. And the stories, you know, people share is that people count us out. Yeah. And they don't realize how powerful the stories are. Like you could sit here for hours and days sharing stories of so many years that you spent in prison. And that's my job to kind of like take out the moments of it to get people interested to see who you are so they could find out more. So you could do more podcasts and people just take, you know, an interest to you.

And that's something like Joe Rogan does very well with the people he interviews. And it just, it's so fascinating how powerful a story is. And I think that's the direction social media is going to go in. It's storytelling. Like you were talking about on TikTok. I think it's there's a place for men in it where it's not posting model picks and this and that. It's the art of a good story.

And if you can master that, then I think there's huge success out there in the world too. Yeah, you've got some storytellers came through. Phenomenal. It's so, because it's different every time. You know, there's a different character. You ask the same person, the same question about prison, and it's a different perspective.

Yeah, it is. And something that was interesting, you were talking about Tone and you were talking about your old head guy, the bunkmate, and a couple other names. I feel like every prison you have those names because I knew a tone. I knew an old guy. I knew a guy for, like just the nicknames are so, it's such a big system with so many people. And there's all, there's familiar faces and names. Yeah. That's what prison culture.

We're all connected. And that's what it's when we speak, whether you did time in Virginia, Texas, may not have been the same, but we're just fraternity because we share the experience. Absolutely. Well, Chris, thank you so much for traveling out here and sharing your incredible story. Thank you for having me. And we'll have the links to your social media, to the foundation, the nonprofit, or whatever else you want in the description of the bio for our viewers to connect with you. It's amazing. I appreciate that so much. Yeah, I appreciate you.

Yes, sir.