Locked In with Ian Bick - Growing Up In The Streets | Nathan Simpson

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

Nathan Simpson shares how he got started in the drug game, his experience in lock up, the entertaining stories from the life and the lessons he learned along the way. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Connect with Nathan Simpson: https://www.instagram.com/natetherealist_?igsh=bGdpYWJlM3prZmNy Buy his book: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/public-pretender-nathan-simpson/1144825958 Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:05:43 - The Need for Radical Change 00:11:34 - Corruption and the Power of the Government 00:17:17 - The Psychology Behind Driving Without a License 00:22:48 - Formative Years and Peer Pressure 00:28:19 - Freshman Year Memories 00:33:55 - Memories of Selling 00:39:26 - Getting Arrested and Sent to Juvenile Jail 00:45:00 - A Month in Juvenile Detention 00:50:29 - Making the Biggest Change in My Life 00:55:58 - Basketball, Trouble, and College 01:01:58 - Dealing and Living Dangerously 01:08:07 - The Robbery and Its Aftermath 01:13:54 - Getting Caught and Set Up 01:19:32 - Leaving the Game, Pursuit of Success 01:25:24 - Working for Family and Personal Success Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You can also trade on who wins each series, the conference finals, and the championship. San Antonio is currently trading at 22% to win it all, meaning a $100 trade pays out $455 if they take the title. On Calci, you're trading against other people in a live market, no house, no odds makers. And as the odds move, you can buy in or out any time throughout the post season. For a limited time, download the Calci app and use code hoops to get $10 when you trade $10. KLSHI, Calci, Trade on Anything. Back then in 2004, the clothes were big. I don't know if you ever heard of Jabot jeans, but they're huge jeans.

You always wore basketball shorts under your jeans and you're ready to play ball at any change you yet. But I would tie strings around my basketball shorts in a sock and put all the weed in the sock, stuffing in my pants. So if I ever ran into cops and they touch me, they're just feeling some business down there. They don't know whether I'm packing a hog or not, but they're like. Welcome back to another episode of Locked In. On today's episode, Nathan Simpson reveals how he got. into the drug game at a young age, run-ins with the law, including a stint in an adolescent prison, and how he was able to overcome his troubled years and turn it all around.

I want to give a big shout out to Kendra Baker at the Danbury News Times for an incredibly well-written article following my past journey, my present journey, and my future journey. It was really exciting to see a redemption piece done by the Danbury News Times, and I really encourage you to give it a look and a read, came out. really good and I'm so excited for the future. Now I hope you sit back, relax, and get ready to lock in with Nathan Simpson. Nate, welcome to locked in, man. Pleasure having you on the show today. Thank you for having me. Happy to be here. Where are you coming to us today from? I actually stayed the night. Oh, really? Right up their way in Danbury, but I'm actually coming from Salem-Mass.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Where'd you stay in Danbury? Hampton Inn. Hampton Inn. Where is that? 84 West, right off 84. Is that by like Walmart? There was a ton of places. I'm unfamiliar with the area, but yeah. Yeah, you came prepared. I did, dude. I don't want to come in the, have to drive three hours. So I'm originally from Lowell, 20, 30 minutes right outside of Boston.

I currently live in Salem, Mass, and that's, again, another 30, 20, 25 minutes from Boston. But I didn't want to have to rush in the morning, do all that hype, do it down on traffic, try to be proactive. Yeah, and you brought the family, right? I did, yeah, yeah. They're at the mall. Hope they don't spend too much money. You come out and you realize you're broke, you lost everything at the mall. I might have to hitchhike out there.

That mall's addicting. I know, it's huge. I like it. Yeah, I can tell you came prepared. You're very, you know, you were texting me about, you know, wanting to go over stuff and you're ready to go. And I love when a guest comes, like, ready to tell their story. You're excited.

You just published a book today, too. I did. Yeah, yeah. Very exciting. Yeah, I mean, I'm happy. It's just, you know, finally happy to have it. Not happy to have it over with, but it's just such a strenuous process, you know, the writing, the editing, you know, hoping not to forget stuff, what you're going to put into it.

And it's a vulnerable. experience, you know, like dealing with creative and what you are going to put out and hoping people to receive it and take it in for what it's worth. You know what I mean? I think it's important and I think it's a valuable tool and a guide that's going to help a lot of people and a lot of kids in the inner cities. What's the name of the book? And where could people find it? Public Pretender. Barnes & Noble right now, it's available for $999. I'm not going to hit anyone over the head for prices. Yeah, 99 Barnes & Noble, the links in my bio on Instagram, Nate Therillis underscore. How long to take you to write it? I'm asking because I'm writing a book now.

now. Nice. So I'm working on that. We got the book proposal together and then kind of just navigating the creative direction, which way we're going to do it. Honestly, it took me like a little over a year. It just came up, you know, whenever I'm bored in my notes, I just throw down random ideas. And then I just started, you know, anytime I had downtime, just started throwing things together.

And, you know, over time, I just, I saw it growing. And I just kind of asked, you know, people, you know, what their thoughts on what their experiences were with the system and with law and with court. And based on, you know, picking their brains, you know, I kind of, you know, gave my input based on my experience mixed with theirs, and then that's how that came about. Now, a big part of your story, or basically your story is based on what happened in your youth. For sure. And does that correlate to the book and how it got its name like public pretender?

100%. I mean, my personal story isn't in the book, but it definitely experiences that I've, you know, been a part of growing up is what led me, you know, to understand the importance of the information that's in this book and what I've been through growing up and understanding, you know, the game that we're playing in terms of the court system in terms of law. We're playing monopoly without knowing the rules. You know, we're playing life without knowing the rules, especially in the court system. And I think it's important for me to try to lay out those rules to the best of my ability in terms of what I've seen where what this, what hindered me in the system. Did you always live in Massachusetts? Yeah, born and raised low, Lowell Mass right outside of Boston. What's that area like back when you were born?

So when I was born, I mean, lower mass was, you know, very diverse. You know, you got, you know, you got your good parts. You got your bad parts. I don't want to say standard, but it's not too much different than Boston. It's just obviously smaller, on a smaller scale, less people. Still a city, you know, one of the bigger cities in Massachusetts, you know, northern mass. But yeah. What year did you, were you born?

What year were you born? 1990. I'm an old man, 33. I'll be 34 in April. That's not old. I'm five years older younger than you. No, I know. I'm just kidding.

Okay. I just feel old because I've been, quote, unquote, outside for so long, you know, had such a journey for so long. So that's why I say I'm old man. Old soul. So was it a crime-related area in that time? It is. I mean, if you ask a person in Boston what Lowell is like, they think it's just a suburb, you know.

But people from Lowell really know that, like, it's a dangerous place, as anywhere. You know, there's danger anywhere. But Lowell in itself is definitely, you know, can be crime-ridden. You know, there's good parts where there's less crime and then there's the bad parts where there's projects and, you know, poverty. And when you put people in those predicaments, you know, it's inevitable that, you know, they're going to break crimes. Again, because a lot of times people don't know certain law. and they're breaking crimes without them even knowing. You know what I mean?

It's the ignorance of the law. Yeah, everyone breaks a crime daily, probably, and they don't even realize that they're committing a crime. My thing is, my biggest thing is I watch a Joe Rogan podcast. I think actually it was a stand-up, and he said, our founding father is back in the day. They wrote the Declaration of Independence, right, with a feather. And we have a lot of the same information that we follow and guidelines we follow

from a document that was made, you know, hundreds of years ago. And it's ironic that now what all the technological advancements we have, we have planes, we have cell phones, we have computers, internet, all of this stuff. And we're kind of following the same rhetoric. And it's like, we haven't improved some stuff. We haven't, you know, updated some stuff. And it's, and it's quite unfair to the people from, you know, like Lowell and anywhere in this world. And I don't want to just use Lowell or Massachusetts or, you know, my, you know, upbringing, you know, to kind of be selfish or, you know, make it all about me. But at the same time, there's some radical change that needs to happen,

I believe. Yeah. When you look at laws as a whole, I wonder if there will ever be a time where they're looking at, I know they look at the drug laws and sentencing guidelines and whatnot. And the bigger picture, they're actually not. Like in the federal level, those haven't been revised in a while, like the draconian sentencing guidelines and this and that. But, I mean, there's just a lot of silly stuff that you look at and you're like, how did this came to be? That's a good question. It's like, how did we get here? And the fact that we got here is one thing, but why are we still here? How do we change this? What do we, what can we do as the average Joe, they don't get millions of dollars.

I don't have, you know, people that can lobby for us, the people that we might not, oh, my bad one second. No, you're good. The person that might not have the resources or the connections to, you know, really affect change. Because, again, I'm a regular dude from a lower income situation. And it's like, who am I? You know, I wasn't born with the daddy in high places. And I don't knock people that come from that.

But I'm just saying, like, how do we affect that change? What's the path like? What's the plan and how do we, you know, make these changes as it comes from a city level? state level and then federal level. How do we do that? I don't know. I didn't go to law school. I didn't study criminal justice.

So I'm just, it's just my curiosity and just belief that, you know, this needs to change. Yeah, I mean, I wonder what the world's going to look like, you know, 20, 30, 40 years from now. For sure. How much it advances,

how much it changes, you know, that we see a lot of how people that came on our show were affected by the system and the ramifications. And a lot of people got railroaded. Like, you know,

locking someone away because they were addicted to drugs for all these years and this and that. That's not the answer. You've been a county jail, right? You have to go to county before you go to, if you don't mind me asking, right? I mean, I think you've... I went to like a private, so Connecticut doesn't really have county jails. They have in the federal system. The federal courts send their inmates that are being detained or awaiting trial without bail to Wyatt and Rhode Island. At least when I went through the system, this is a, you know, a while ago. So that's your holdover. Yeah, that's like the hold over, which is like a county jail, but it's a private facility, and that's for-profit.

Like, that is, the fact that the federal government has a contract with a four, a private facility, and they're just making money off of inmates, it's fucking lunatic. I think it's disgusting. My thing is, like, there's one thing to think about it, right? There's one thing to try to do it. And then the third part, who signed off on that? And who's like, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. Let's keep doing it.

And the problem with those private facilities is they can, they could cut corners. They're going with the cheapest options. Everything is just, and everything's for money. Think about what I would, the point I was trying to get at is like a county, right? So in Massachusetts, Middleton is a Burrica. Those are county jails your holdover until you get sentenced or if you go to some people. Some people are there for just six months stints, right? But those, some of those people there, excuse me, I want to say 70 or 80% of those people, some of them are drug addicts.

They just have a habit. And like you said, been railroaded by the system. And some people are just, you know, weren't brought into a situation where they even had a chance. So however they came across their choice of drug or whatever law they broke, they were given a public defender. And a public defender did what? You know, the safest deal. Why take it a trial? You know, the max is this.

And it's like a scare tactic. And it's like, well, what if I'm not really guilty of that crime? And it's not what you know. It's what you could prove. And if the DA can't prove that I did any of this. stuff and it's like well no no no just take this deal and again I don't want to keep plugging the book the whole time but public pretender man like it's like these people and it's not every public defender but these dudes pretend to have your best interests at heart but at the end of the day they're

doing this for a job why wouldn't they do this why wouldn't they be private hires private counsel and charge 5 10x more than what the state's paying them well you know we had some public we had a public defender on the show recently and I think I would say he's an outlier okay where he's he's a decent one, the Thomas Leaf episode. I don't know if you saw that or not. I don't know how new it is. I might have... And I want to have more...

I give the guy a lot of credit because he came on as an active public defender and said, what's wrong in the system, gave his point of view on it and what he's doing. There's a lot of people, current public defenders, and I look at public defenders working for government because you're paid by the state and whatnot. It's not a private facility, so I don't know how it could be non-biased.

We're paying them. Exactly. So you have someone like that on. I give them credit to go against the system and come on because I'll ask officials, politicians to come on, talk about the system. They'll campaign on it all day. But when it comes to be under the microscope and answer the hard questions, they don't want to talk about it.

They're all bought. They can't. And I get it. Sorry to cut you off. I get it because it's like, well, to some degree, I get it. Because that's all they know. They're probably 50, 60 years old. What are they going to do if they come up here?

expose or shed light on a flawed system and now, hey, you know, time to retire. They're going to push him out the door and he's 60 years old. What he's going to do now? He hasn't reached his retirement yet. How is he going to provide for his family? What's he going to do? Do we even know they're going to allow him to his retirement after doing something like that? And that's the tricky thing.

And it's like, I hate to be conspiracy-esque and talk about corruption and all that. But it's just so blatant now, especially with social media and the Internet, it's just so obvious. But these shows like this and what you do is so important. and it's pivotal to the growth of our society in our communities. Because without people talking about this stuff and having conversations, it's never going to change. It's going to be swept under the rug. Well, and I'm glad they're starting to be a little more accountability. Look at like the Biden prosecutor.

Like that was ridiculous that they were trying to throw this sweetheart deal for him. Yeah, of course. Pathetic. And then you look at the Trump prosecutor, Phanis Willis, whatever her name is, that shit, you know? It's nuts what's going on. I stay away from politics, man, because it's just. It's so it's laughable. It's so laughable.

It's so obvious. These are the people calling the shots. This is my point. They pen this document with a feather and it leads up to the big guys like the Bidens and the Trumps. And listen, I don't have a dog in that fight, but my point is it's just so laughable. And these are the people running our country. These are the people responsible for our daily lives in terms of our freedoms and our

allocation of budgets and funding and all this stuff, especially down to the state level. are mayors, our representatives, and it's like, who are these people? How do they? We know how they get there, right? But it's like the systems in place in terms of how they get there has to change. And it's only holding us back. And you just realize the power they have. Like all the resources they're putting against Trump, all the resources they're putting against Biden's son, just everything.

Whether you're Democrat, Republican, whatever, you got to realize that this, it's fucked what's going on in the world with the power that they have. and how we see that showcased against the Bidens and the Trumps of the world, that's what they've been doing every day to individuals like you, like me, the underdogs that you don't hear about. They do that, the little guys. And obviously there's outliers, there's murderers and pedophiles and rapists and all that, you know, and I don't really have sympathy for that. But you have individuals that, you know, are getting a massive amount of time

and they're getting the full forces of the federal government thrown against them. Like when you went, if you were at my trial, they spent millions of dollars prosecuting a 19 year old. Our dollars. A 19 year old kid. Connecticut taxpayer dollars. Plus federal. It just, someone's got to be oversighting this and say, hey, this is the cutoff. Why don't you offer?

Like, it's just, it's nuts. That's the thing. It's like who stamps and green lights where this money goes to? Who says, all right, yep, that sounds good. Oh, yep, that sounds good. Because again, I don't really like to touch too much on politics, but even like the Ukraine stuff. right? And I don't want war. I just want peace. I want everyone to be safe and sound. I get it, right? But if we're not good here at home, why are we pumping tons of money to Ukraine and overseas?

You know what I mean? And again, I'm not against helping people. I'm a proponent of help and support. I'm big on everyone, you know, needs a chance and needs help at some point or some juncture. But who's saying, okay, yep, you could take my tax dollars and do that. Oh, yep. But gas price is $4.4. You know, a carton of eggs is $8 and a loaf of bread is $4.50 and my rent's $3,000. And you know what I mean? Whatever is, my mortgages, taxes way up, property tax, way up. And it's like, make it make sense. You know, I just want fair.

I just want it to be fair. And I know life isn't fair, but the guy that works the hardest that pays taxes gets the short end of the stick. If you make six figures right now, it's the worst bracket of being. You know what I mean? Why would you want to make money? It's like you want to find the loopholes like Trump does where you can write off all, you know, your expenses and you find ways to retain your money.

But it's like, why would you want to work hard in this country when you could just, you know, be, no offense, be a little. little lazier or find things in the system that will, you know, will fund your lifestyle, which is interesting. It's like, it's ironic. And again, I don't want to sound like I hate American, man. I love America. I love America. I love where we're from, you know, in United States and the opportunities that, you know, we have. But at the same time, it's like, there's so much craziness going on in the world. And I just hope that, you know, we come out of it. However we do, I'm not sure. And I hope that we have a, we elect a leader that, you know, that's competent enough, you know,

to finish a sentence when he talks. And it is powerful enough to really affect change, man, because it's scary and I'm concerned, especially for my family and the ones that come after us. Because me and you, we have, what, you know, 40, 50 years, hopefully, right, in a perfect world. But how about after us? And when we're here in this world, it's like,

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at participating locations, terms and conditions apply. We're once a part of, you know, a little better, right? Yeah, I mean, you know, and when you go through the system at a young age like yourself and like myself, you have so much more maturity in that department than the average person our age wouldn't know about. And it's not caring about. And that's why it's our job to shine light and share these stories. Absolutely. And so at what age did you first encounter the system? that you got roped up into it. And I just want to, like I preface this, anything I'm going to speak about,

it's nothing to glorify. I don't want to sound cool. It's not an ego stroke. It's just, you know, to share my story like you've done in hopes to, you know, prepare people for, you know, what's to come if they ever are a part of the system.

But the first time I ever got in trouble, I want to say I was like 12 years old, man, driving on a suspect, driving with no license, you know? My friend had a car, jumped in a car, drove it for a while, didn't get caught. So it was the thing to do,

you know, let me use your car. Sure, just put gas in it. back then you could throw $5 of gas and you know you could go a long way and we're in the city we're not going too far so i 12 years old i got arrested for you know driving with no license they put me on probation right away and it's no like no community service put me on probation right away and then once you get in trouble again if you get in trouble again you violate your probation then you go away but my first time i got in you know in trouble with the law was driving out of license what was it for you that wanted you to do that were you trying to fit in what's like the psychology behind doing that because did you know it was wrong to hop in that car at 12 years old? Were you peer pressure? Well, of course, I knew I didn't have a license and it was wrong, right? But my thinking is like, I was a pretty good driver. You know, I grew up playing with full wheelers and goat carts.

I could drive. And thankfully, no one was hurt. You know, I didn't crash into nobody. But just to get in the car, drive again, you want to be cool, drive a car. You see adults do it. It's cool. It looks cool. You want to bump your music, you know, pick up your homies and drive around the city,

pick up girls, show girls you could drive. And yeah, you know, it's stupid. The kid stuff, you know, you go through stuff and you look back and you laugh at it. And you're just grateful that, you know, no one got hurt. And, you know, luckily it was just an arrest for no license, but it could have been a lot worse. And what do your parents think when you first got arrested? See, I wasn't raised by my parents. Oh, who were you raised by?

That's kind of like, again, like a, I mean, obviously we could edit some of this, right, in different fashions. Yeah, no, it's okay. So, no, I was, so I was born and raised in Lowell, like, you know, we spoke about, but I was raised by my grandparents. And I was adopted by my grandparents when I was a baby. and being that my biological parents were affected by the crack era in the 80s. So, you know, they were a product of that, product of addiction. And they struggled with that. So when I was, you know, probably six months old, my grandparents adopted me and raised me in Lowell Mass.

And they did the best they could. I'm not going to act like, you know, we struggled and the lights got shut off. You know, my grandmother, you know, worked a union job. My grandfather did as well. But I was raised by my mother's parents, which are white French people from Lowell. And, you know, once you reach a certain age, you know, 12, 13. You know, you're starting to learn who you are. Me, as a young black man in Lowell, you know, you start, you know, hanging around

with certain people, you know, being around certain cliques. And once you get in those environments, you know, you start, you know, to rebel, right? Right, right? That's the word. And you're trying to find who you are. And there's only so much, you know, again, a white couple, you know, French couple from Lowell can provide a, you know, young black man. And that's when I started giving a little pushback and, you know, starting to be, you know,

resilient towards their authority. Did you have siblings? I do four, four siblings. And you guys all grew up together? Three sisters and one brother. No, we didn't. That was the other kind of different part of my upbringing. So my older brother, I have older brother, older sister, and two younger sisters.

My older brother and my older sister were adopted by my aunt. My younger sister was adopted by my cousin. And my youngest sister wasn't born at the time. She was born in, I want to say 98, I believe she was born. Yeah, 98. She didn't kill me for this, but yeah. Were you guys close together? So, yeah, my grandparents, you know, they did the best to try to make our upbringing as normal as possible.

We would get together every weekend. as much as we could during the week. Either I would sleep over there one day a week. They would sleep over my house one day a week. But ultimately, I was kind of like an old new child, in a sense, in my day-to-day life. But my grandparents, like I said, they did the best they could. They gave me everything I ever asked for. I played every sport you could think of, you know, football, basketball, baseball, hockey.

I was a good bowler in my town. A buller, wow. Black guy bowling. And it's a teenager. I've never heard someone say that before. Dude, I was a pretty good bowler at 11, 12 years. I was sponsored by the Lowell Bowling Allie. It was called Brunswick at the time.

I ended up winning state tournaments in bowling using some of the scholarships I went in bowling for college. Wow. Which is crazy. I should have kept what to do it. I was bowling in men's leagues at 11, 12 years old. It was crazy. Interesting.

Yeah. And so what about school, the early days of school, middle school, you know, going into high school. What was that like for you? Middle school, everything was good. I was like a stellar student, straight-A student. I remember 9-11. like it was yesterday when people pushing in the big TVs on the stands,

I'm freaking out about it. But then coming to high school, that's when things drastically shifted. Freshman year is like, it's like, you know, throwing you out to the wolves. You know, middle school, you're a big fish in a small pond. You go to high school, small fish in a big pond. And you're still learning yourself. Man, I'm 33 years old right now. I'm still learning myself.

You know, in a week I learned something new that, you know, might change, you know, my perspective on things. But freshman in high school is when things really shifted. You know, I grew up playing baseball. good baseball player, eighth grade and ninth grade. That's when I started playing basketball. I think seventh grade is when we were on one of the best teams ever in New Hampshire, one of the best A.U baseball teams.

And back then there was no social media. Back then, it was word of mouth. And we ended up going to the Cooperstown Dream Parks and Cooperstown, New York, playing in the Cooperstown Hall of Fame doing all that good stuff. But leading up to high school, ninth grade, is when, you know, me personally, and it would sound ignorant. I thought it was cooler to be a guy that could dunk. a basketball than to hit a home run, you know. So I started hanging out the basketball guys,

not to blame the basketball guys. But yeah, you know, you start smoking weed, you start drinking, you start partying, you start, you know, being around girls trying to fit in. And that's all it was. Ninth grade was like a very, very defining moment for my life, you know, and it took a really, really strong turn because like I was saying, being raised in a, in a household with two French people from Lowell, being my grandparents, that age discrepancy is what killed us. Not killed is what hurt us, what hindered my guidance from that. them because again they're 60 50 60 years old at the time I'm 13 14 at the time they don't know much about a young black kid wanting to have corn rolls and

wanting to wear baggy clothes and wear Air Force ones and Jordans you know they're thinking about I'm putting a roof over your head I'm giving you food to eat and I'm doing the bare minimum and the rest is kind of on you but it's funny I just recently saw the the Colin Kaepernett Netflix did you see that special it's like it's a TV show and I don't want to I'm not trying to plug his show but and I'm not trying to use that as too much of an example but it's like the epitome of my upbringing, like, because in the show, he was a black kid raised by white parents and played baseball his whole life, and that's exactly what I was, a black kid, white parents playing baseball

my whole life, and being the only black kid on your baseball team and kind of looking around and kind of like, oh, his parents are closer in age than, you know, my parents, and then kind of realized, hold on, they're my grandparents. He, like, what's going on? So, you know, eighth, ninth grade started hanging with some people I probably shouldn't hung with, and then, you know, looking around and people are wearing certain stuff, and you're like, you know, my, and again, my grandma. would still provide for my grandparents still would get me you know the Jordans the

air forces whatever was out you know what was cool but then I'm like you know I kind of want more for myself and I've worked a regular job at market basket Hanford but back then 2003 2004 you're bringing in 150 bucks a week pair of Jordan's 150 bucks and you just like I need more you know how do I get more and then you look around and you see people you know looking a little different and you're like you know how do I get that so you know you you talk to people and they're just like you know what I gave this to this person and they paid me $5 more than what I paid for it. And that's when you start to hustle and you learn to hustle.

And that's my biggest, you know, the biggest change of my life was freshman year. Freshman at Lowell High School, 2004. And that's when I, you know, everything kind of, I don't want to say it went downhill, but that's when I really started going that way. You think there's a lot of pressure from society being this black man and raised by white parents

and you're looking around seeing that you were kind of the lone wolf on the team. teams and you had this love and passion for sports, but you kind of, on the inside, you're like, wow, do I belong here? You're questioning everything. Spot on, man. Again, so as a freshman in high school, low high, I played football, basketball, baseball. Off my baseball reputation growing up in Lowell known as one of the best baseball players in

Lowell, I made varsity right away, varsity baseball. Basketball, I want to say, I made JV basketball right away. Played a little bit of varsity, but it wasn't that good. I didn't start playing basketball, so like taking it serious until eighth, ninth grade. But again, like you said, that pressure, you know, societal pressure, big, city, black kid. What am I supposed to do? What's my identity? You know what I mean? What's my identity? And again, as a black man on the exterior, I don't want to play baseball anymore. I don't want to be around all the white kids, you know, not that have anything against white people. I love white people. I love all people.

But it just was, you know, a cultural thing. And I was still fine of myself. Again, at that time, I had Afro, you know, started braiding my hair and really finding out who I was. And then that freshman year, I started smoking. I started smoking. Never in my life did any hard drugs. I still, to this day, you know, I stay away just because of my parents' story. God willing, I just, you know, straight A student until the first semester was done. And then after the first semester, just started flunking everything, just skipping classes, you know, selling illegal things. And, you know, and just falling into that cycle, you know, that habitual cycle of what inner city produces. You know, a kid, a misguided kid, just trying to figure out how to make more money, trying to be cool, be relevant.

And that's kind of what that was. How do you think your friends would have described you back then? Before you went downhill? Powerful question. Before I went downhill? Yeah, I would say before and then we'll ask, you know, after you went downhill. I would say that, I mean, I was a stellar athlete. I was just, I feel like I was a likable guy.

I had a lot of different types of friends. You know, I was cool with everybody. And I was a kid that like, I didn't care if you were the star in the baseball, basketball team or you were the biggest dork in class. I was cool with everybody. I just, I didn't like bullies. I was always a bigger kid. So I was the dude that like, I wouldn't bully the bully, but I would check the bully.

him like, yeah, lead a dude alone. I don't care if he will the same sneakers every day or the same pair of clothes. He probably don't have it. But I was that guy. I was that guy that generally was cool with everybody. And I was not a teacher's pet, but I got good grades. I took pride in my work and I wasn't shy of being smart or being outspoken about what I've learned and where I was from and everything I experienced. Did you have morals and principles looking back on it now?

Back then? I probably didn't know what those were. You know, I wasn't raised by my dad. I didn't have, and not to knock my grandfather. He did the best he could. But the day-to-day wasn't instilling those morals and principles. It was like if you see me do something that was moral-based or principle-based, that's how I learned it by seeing and by his example. But we never really sat down and had those like serious conversations with those serious talks now.

Yeah, I think like when you get older and you reflect back on it, the morals that you evolve into having later on, you kind of see signs of those in childhood. You just don't know what they are. For sure. No, no, 100%. That's big, man. And those are your formative years. You know, being a teacher for the last few years or the last, you know, almost decade, it's like you look at kids and you always look at the classroom as like, which kid was I?

You know, was I a follower? Was I a leader? Was I a kid that was done his work first? Was I the kid that took a little more time with his work? And, you know, and that's a really good question because I think I was moral basic and I wasn't stealing. I wasn't cheap. I wasn't robbing people or doing anything like that. But I definitely, again, I was always a sociable person that wanted to be around people that wanted to be outside and to be helpful as much

as I can and to learn as much as I can. So how do you think that changed going into freshman year? It's just not cool to be smart. I mean, it's funny. Ironically, it is now. And I don't want to sound, it sounds ignorant to say, but it just, not that it wasn't cool to be smart. It just wasn't cool to be early to class and be prepared for class and did all your homework.

You know, it's like, on the way to class, I'm talking to girls. I'm fresh as fuck every day. I'm rocking back in the day, 2004, wearing Jabot jeans. The fly-ish Joebo jeans, the fly-ish shit. And you're talking to your boys because in a big high school, like Loha, you have full 5,000 kids. So that's your chance to talk to your buddy because in your class of 30, 40 kids, you might not have any friends that you know from childhood. You just kid your meeting on the day to day. But yeah.

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of pressure. Going into a big high – I went to a big high school, one of the largest in the state, Danbury High School. And I just remember that first day you're like this little minnow in this giant, massive pond. and there's a bunch of sharks and different kinds of fish and everything. You're just like, it could be overwhelming. See, I kind of had that experience, but I also was what they say nowadays, outside very early. So at 10, 11 years old, I'm chilling with the older guys.

I got older friends that are 18, 19 years old because, again, I was always a bigger dude. So they automatically assumed me to be 16, 17 at the time, and especially hanging around at the basketball courts or the baseball fields in the area. You just, you know, if you're a likable person, you're going to start hanging around with those crowds. And dude, I was 11, 12 years old going to nightclubs.

18 plus nightclubs using people's IDs or sneaking into the club. So dude, I had my first sip of alcohol 12 years old. Like again, I never did hard drugs.

But I remember being 12 years old going to a nightclub getting pulled over by a cop, giving him an ID. And being so scared of going to jail, he ends up just kind of

giving us a warning and having to go back home by like 3 a.m. 12 years old, 3 a.m. No cell phones back then. My grandmother couldn't call me like, where the fuck you're at?

You know what I mean? It was just an honor system. I'm sleeping at this person's house and then coming home at 3 a.m. hanging out in a car, sleeping on my, taking a nap on my buddy's car until 6, 7 a.m. And then going home and acting like I slept at my friend's house. So to kind of touch on what you're saying,

I felt like I was kind of one of the sharks because I knew all the seniors and all the house parties at all their cookouts and all their situations. I knew everybody, you know? And going there, which is, that's what kind of worked against me, but helped me be the person I was as a freshman because now I'm

those circles. As a freshman, I'm with the seniors, and that's like a big deal. You know what I mean? And it helped me too when I got into the game hustling. You know, I have that clientele now. I have those people that, you know, can help me out. And I was always the guy that like, I didn't want to be a hand-to-hand guy and I don't want to, you know, glorify that stuff. But I was the guy giving you a bunch of stuff. So we're talking about drugs. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So at what age was this? Sophomore year? Freshman year is when it started, but sophomore year is when it just went into overdrive. How did you get into that? Those are just the older people that you're hanging around with.

Yeah. So the people that I'm hanging around with, 11, 12 years old, the guys that I'm thinking are the cool guys. And no disrespect to them. They're great people and they meant well. You know, I don't think they wanted to, you know, hinder my life or destroy my life because at the end of the day, it's my choice, my free will. But yeah, eighth grade, ninth grade, it's like those dudes.

And again, I'm looking around. I'm like, I want to live a better life. I want nicer shit, right? And it's like, how do I get that nicer shit? Bagging groceries at Market Basket. That's what the grocery store around my way is called. That's not going to get it. So I go to my old heads and you, listen,

I want to hustle. Put me on. That's what you're right. Put me on. Front me a pack. Right. And they want to just give me a pack because that's a terrible business plan. There's no business plan.

There's no structure there. They'll give me a pack with it. There's these four people you'll deal with. So they kind of get you going until you really could get on your feet. In sophomore year is when I really got on my feet. Because freshman year I was playing sports. That took away from my time hustling being in the streets and doing that stuff. But when I flunked off the teams,

I have way more time. I don't have to go to practice every day. I don't have to keep my grades up. I just have to show up to school and make sure they got my attendance and then I'm good. They're not calling home. And at that time,

by my sophomore year, I'm renting my own place. I'm living on my own. And midway through freshman year because my grandparents ended up losing our house my freshman year. And for whatever reason,

I was given the opportunity to rent the house I was raised in because it was foreclosed on and it was like on like standstill or whatever. However the city works in law, I was paying the mortgage on the house. You were making that much money.

Going into sophomore year, I was, but I was paying a percentage of what the mortgage was, because they gave me a number, basically gave me, I think it was like 700 bucks to pay a month. That's still a lot for a 13-year-old kid, 14-year-old kid, yeah. But I was making moves. Again, I was a likable dude, bro, and I was on, I knew a lot of people. And again, I just was a bigger dude. So at top of being, it helps. I never played with guns.

I never was a proponent of guns. I feel like when you have those around you, you kind of attract that energy. But back then you didn't need guns. I don't want to sound like I'm that old, but back then, as long as you can use your hands and you could be a physical threat, you were good. And I knew a lot of people that are older than me that were in that world and I dealt with that stuff. So if I ever had an issue, back then it was Nextel phones. It's one chirp away. I just sent a chirp and shit's going to happen.

The good old walkie talkie. It was the best. And I remember back in the freshman year high school having the nextel. Oh, sorry. I had a Nextel, whatever, what, 860 at the time, the click phone. And then the sidekick. Sidekick was a shit back then. Yeah.

It was like a computer phone. I always won the sidekick, but we grew up on AT&T and you. There was no sidekicks for AT&T. Team Mobile had that fucking strap down. When T-Mobile was like the original sprint that no one liked T-Mobile and sucked, and now T-Mobile bought out sprint. Exactly. I want to say,

it was like AT&T, but I forget like the basic, like cellular wire. I forget it was so long. AT&T was the goat, though, and I remember I got a sidekick that was the vertical one that you could flip up. Okay.

That was cool. It's like a Sony Erickson, I want to say. I don't know, it was some shit. Man, reminiscent about the days, And the most exciting part of your day is getting the chicken patty or the cheeseburger at the lunch line.

There were snow cones that we could get, the squeeze up ice pops. Oh, right, yeah. I just remember back, especially in high school, like fucking getting milk, like milk. Like milk with your lunch. I was like. I was never a milk. I'd do chocolate milk. I would 100% do chocolate milk.

But like if I did that now, my stomach would be all over the place. But back then, we'll leave for lunch. I'm not fucking eating that bullshit. I'm making money. Yeah, where we're going? We're meeting up to match up. You're matching? Who's matching?

At home room, that's what we did. So freshman here. We would meet up and be like, all right, what we're doing? Who's matching? If you had plays to make, you had some money to make, you sent somebody to handle that for you, or you'd handle it on your own. Or you're like, oh, who's matching? So you'd meet up at homeroom or outside of homeroom, five, six guys,

meet up with five, six girls. Someone lived close by. There was a project close by, moody projects. And we'd meet up at the project and just smoke weed, chill, go to the next period. And by lunchtime, high as fuck at the munchies. We're not dealing with fucking chicken nuggets and chocolate milk. We're like... What kind of drugs are you selling?

It's all weed. Never did anything heavy than weed. Always weed. Were teachers less vigilant back then? Because I feel like now, if anyone's selling drugs or doing anything, like you see a lot and this happened in Danbury.

Someone was accused of sleeping with a teacher. And word travels so fast. So I feel like if someone's dealing drugs in today's world, they're just going to find out about it immediately. It's so different, though. That phone right there, it's so different. And nowadays that loud, that pack is so much fucking more potent than it was.

Like when I was when I first started selling weed We're selling Reggie That shit was called Reggie and Loew we called it Reggie Regular weed and it had seeds and stems You would get a big pack Maybe an ounce for 30 bucks And fucking open that thing Throw out all the seeds and stems

And bag up the green But we had a system Dude we were a real structure When we started really getting into it Back then in 2004 The clothes were big I don't know if you ever heard of Jabot jeans But they're fucking huge jeans

You always wear basketball shorts And you're ready to play ball At any change you had But I would tie strings around my basketball shorts in a sock and put all the weed in the sock, stuff it in my pants. So if I ever ran into cops and they touched me, they're just feeling

some business down there. They don't know whether I'm packing a hog or not, but they're like, all right. Packing a hog. They just know that they can't go any further than that, and that's why I would keep the weed, all my balls. And then vigilant, no, teachers were oblivious. We're 13, 14-year-old kids. But then they started taking notice

at end of freshman year when I'm coming in with Lacoste T-shirts every day. Back then, that was like wearing Dior every day. wearing the cost designer stuff was not a thing the lacrosse was but wearing new clothes every day they're like how hell is that kid afford in a hundred and twenty dollar uh polo shirt but i'm wearing every color every day i'm wearing every different jabot that you know and there was one encounter i had with a teacher where we were so obvious too but we didn't think we're obvious we would leave class or someone would text you on your sidekick or chirp you you'd walk by the class and they would know

you're going to the bathroom and i remember one day going to the bathroom them real quick. You'd put it in your hand, you know, dapp them up and your transactions done. They have the money in one hand. You have the weed in a little baggy on the other hand. You just tap up. And a teacher came in the middle of it, but I would, smart. You know, you know, meet me at the stall. That's what it was called. You go to the stall. You go to the stall next me. I'll dab you up real quick. If anyone ever comes in, I'm just taking a piss. And again, the weed was in my balls. So if you're behind me, I'm just stuffing the weed back in my, the money in there. I'm tying it. It looks like I'm just fixing my pants. Then a teacher found

me. He was like, come with me. Brought me to the office. Had the cops come with, Lowell's a big school. There's always a canine cop on site. They search me. You didn't find shit. And he's like, I know if you're cavity search him, you'll find something. And they were right.

If they would have stripped me, they would have found it. But it was Reggie weed. It was probably like a fucking half an ounce, you know, 14 grams bagged up, you know, a tent to distribute pack is what we call it. So yeah, very much weed, very weed based. And again, back then the weed wasn't as strong. Nowadays, if you have a 14 of fucking some of the loud shit now, it's just going to see.

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And as the odds move, you can buy in or out any time throughout the post season. For a limited time, download the Kalshi app and use code hoops to get $10 when you trade $10. Calci, trade on anything. Just think up a whole fucking building. It's a lot different. Did your grandparents have any inkling of what did, like, did they notice you changing? A little bit, but at that time, they were going through that issue with the home. You know, so they were kind of like too caught up in their life in dealing with the house situation.

And then them moving out. And I kind of skipped over it, but I was being a jerk. At that time, I was being a jerk with them. I was, you know, not coming home at time. So they kind of gave up on me, to be honest. And I love them to death. Those are my parents. I'll do anything for them to this day.

They're still alive, thankfully. But I just, they kind of gave up on me. So once they moved out, no one, I had no one to answer to. So from halfway through freshman year to the end of my freshman year 2004, I had no one to answer to. I'm living on my own, fucking renting out a house on my own, paying the mortgage, fucking silk sheets in my bedroom. I'm living some fly shit.

There was a place called Renner Center back in the day. We could get nice furniture. You could rent furniture. So I was renting a whole furniture set, big TV, plasm. That's when, like, flat screen TVs came out. Fucking, what was it, back then? PlayStation, when LeBron was on the Cavaliers, everyone, my house was a spot.

So after school, you come to my house, roll up, smoke, play fucking video games, and just chill, bust moves out of the house. So if you were paying the mortgage, why couldn't your grandparents stay there? I was paying the percentage. It was already foreclosed. It was already done deal.

But I was paying, like, a percentage to occupy the space. I don't know what the hell it was. But then my aunt and uncle ended up moving downstairs and then I was renting upstairs. It was such a weird situation, but I never asked too many questions as long as I could live there.

No one questioned my coming and goings and as long as they never snooped around my shit. I didn't give a fuck about what they did on their own time. I just knew that I just didn't want to be controlled because I was already morphed and already programmed into that mindset

that I know it all. I'm doing the shit on my own. My dad ain't around. Fuck the world and you're in that mindset now. It's like you don't have a care in the world about anything and you obviously ignorant and oblivious to what the fuck is going on.

So do you think if your grandparents didn't have those financial struggles you never would have went down the path you would later go down. Yeah, for sure. To some degree, they would have had more, you know, more access to me. And they would have been had more control to some degree. But at the same time, again, I'm a bigger dude. I was a dickhead.

If my grandfather ever tried to, like, discipline me physically, it wasn't happening. At 9, 10 years old, yeah, I'm going to adhere to that. But once I became a certain age, I mean, in a certain size, I'm like, I'm fucking everything off. And again, once they got a chance, and I feel bad, looking back, like, they already raised their kids to 20, 30 years. old. Now they're raising another little kid. They're old. They want to chill, relax, you know, mind their business, get to get to their retirement, enjoy their pension. But for sure, it definitely would have changed, you know, the trajectory, excuse me, in my life, but life happens and life,

you know, you just got to go with it, trust you got. Yeah. So at what age did you end up getting arrested? So my sophomore year is when I actually got locked up. So excuse me, my sophomore year, it's like when shit's really rolling, right? I'm really making money. I'm the guy. I'm at lunch. fucking handing out $20 bills in high school thinking I'm like fucking out pole for a fucking paid. I'm just reckless, right, at this point. But I never, we never were jewelry. We never stupid like that. We just, we love nice clothes.

And I always had an older girlfriend. So I always had cars and their names and stuff like that. But so when I, I was on probation for the drive with no license. And I ended up having court that on a Friday or Thursday. And when you're in juvenile, in the juvenile system, you need your, your, your, your, your, I'm fucking having a blank. You're the person that is unresponsible. A guardian. Your guardian.

Your guardian has to go to court. So my grandparents, you know, that was a day that we, you know, we communicate. Oh, listen, we got to meet on this day. I got court. So I went to court the day I had like a hearing from my probation just did they check up on you to see how everything's going. I think I had like six months left or something. And I left court that day. And I remember my grandfather, like disrespecting my grandmother. Like just saying something to her. I don't remember exactly what it was. I just didn't like it. You know, I was like, don't fucking talk to her like that and that was at a point where you're like I'm a man now I got my own money I think I have more money than you I probably didn't have more money than him but I'm like I got more money

I don't fucking talk to her like that because to me that's my queen my man on my rock and he said some shit he said some slick shit to me and I could challenge him to a fight ended up like kicking his car he ends up calling the cops of me they end up arresting me again this is a point to kind of sidetrack real quick the system they should have known I had a dispute my grandfather I didn't hurt him they ended up arresting me for that domestic violence so I ended up getting a domestic on my grandfather in destruction of property because I ended up denting his car. So I ended up going to court that same day again. So I'm in court twice in one day.

I violate probation. They send me to juvenile jail. But couldn't he just say I'm not pressing charges? My grandfather is old school, man. So he did press it. I don't know. See, I don't remember exactly how it went. I don't remember the paperwork or the case of what the D.A. suggested or anything like that.

I just remember them saying they don't want him. Dude, that's what fucked me up too. And that's what when we get to it, that's what had me going to. It's a real, real overdrive, like going a million, but we were in the court. They said we don't want him. Basically, I was too crazy. I was running around. And I wasn't fucking shooting people.

I never dealt with guns or nothing like that. And I wasn't fucking, you know, stabbing people. Do you and I was making money. And I would give money away, dude. I would buy people shit. If you were my friend back in the day, you could come to my house. And sneakers are cool now. I was doing this shit back in the day.

I would have a closet full 100 pairs of sneakers. And if I thought you needed it, pick out any shoes you want. Pick out any polo, lacost. Abercrombie was the big thing I think Hollister just came out that was the expensive shit wasn't Dior, Belantiaga none of that shit

and I was that guy so they said I don't know how the fuck did I get there they did they said they didn't want me and that shit fucking hurt me that hurt me big time and they sent me to

the DYS I think it was in Leahy Worcester the juvenile detention So they took you right then and there right then and there so I was locked up at 11 a.m. I was locked up all fucking day in holding at the court until the court closed at five

They sent me to the Lowell precinct. And so I got picked up. And I got picked up in a bus with women that were going to Framingham. So they put me in my own side with like 10 women going to Framingham jail. And these bitches are trying to fuck me, talk crazy to me. And I'm just a young dude. And I'm flying. I'm thinking I'm flying.

I'm talking like, oh, they writing down on papers giving me their number is fucking weird. These are teenage women? No, these are grown women. Grown woman. They put a child on a grown home. And you're like 14. Going to juvenile jail in Worcester. But you're 14-15-15.

14-15 years. Sophomore year. It's a sophomore year. You ever think your grandparents for me were just overwhelmed? Because what you're doing is new to their lifestyle. Completely new, completely overwhelmed. They're fucking bombarded by this black kid. Again, they're older.

I love them to death, French people. I'm half Trinidadian and half French. My dad was born in Trinidad. My dad was never around. But, yeah, of course they were overwhelmed. They didn't know what the hell was going on. They did everything for me. Up until I was 13, dude, I was like the star bowler, the star baseball player in the town.

Everyone knew me. I was on the right path. Great grades. You know what I mean? I was like the prototype. type kid. And again, like a unicorn, a black kid with white parents. Again, the Colin Kaepernick story. It's fucking crazy. So you're on this bus getting cat called by these women. Dude, I'm on this bus. These fucking women are throwing it at me telling me to look at their ass when

they get out. They got big asses. I'm sure BBL's running around back then. So whatever. You're probably eating that shit up though. You're like, I'm the man. I'm a big dog. I'm going to jail. I'm fucking, you know, like an idiot. But whatever. So I end up going to Leahy. I'm walking in. I already got the funny. The process, like how interesting. intake is in juvenile is a lot different than, you know, county jail. Why do you think it's different? You just walk right in to like the tears. You walk right into the tears.

And you know what's fucking crazy? My best friend from freshman year, I walk in, he's mopping the floor. From low, the old best friend mopping the floor. And he's one of my rotter dies till this day, still around, still in contact every day. He's like, your bro, what the fuck he's doing here? Because he knew, like, what I came from? He genuinely was from like a fucked up. Not that I wasn't genuinely from a fucked up world, but he was from a world that, like,

He really was forced to do things at a way earlier age. But he was like, your bro, what are you doing here? And I told him what happened. I'm like, dude, I finally probation. My grandparents said they didn't want me. They sent me here. And I remember, had an eating all day. So locked up from 11, got to the jail at like 9 p.m.

I'm asking them, yo, can I get like a fucking sandwich or something? And my boy's like, you don't want that. They're going to give you some baloney bullshit or like whatever. And I'm like, whatever. I'm like, can I make a phone call? And as a naive young kid, I'm like, dude, I'm going to just call my Meme. That's what I call my grandmother. Meme's grandmother in French.

and she's just going to come come get me tomorrow. They finally call her. She hears my, I'm like, hello, she's like, who's this? I'm like, it's Nathan. She hears my voice hangs up. That fucking kills me, dude. I'm like, what the fuck? So they put me in a cell.

They're like, oh, you sellies, they give you a breakdown of who your cellmate's going to be, what is charges. You know, they give you his background. He was indicted. So I think I was 14 or 15. He was indicted until he was 18 until they could charge him as an adult or 17 until they could charge him as an adult.

I think he like almost killed his brother, paralyzed his brother. So I'm hearing this. I'm like it. And again, I don't give a fuck how tough anyone thinks they are. You're in a new world. You know, you don't know what jail is. You hear jail is like fucking killers and shit. Even if you're a 14 year old kid, 15 year old kid, I go in there. They put me in the cell. And I just lay there and cry, man. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not this. I'm not going to front to you like I was just sitting there fucking doing pushups or doing none of that shit. No, I laid there. I had to go to the top bunk because he was there before me. He got the bottom bunk. And I fucking cried.

I try to be quiet about it. But I'm like, I don't know what this kid's capable of. I I didn't really sleep that much. And I was there for about a month, a couple weeks or a month. And so my grandmother finally, you know, obviously felt bad and came and got me. Wow. So were you sentenced or just awaiting trial? It was no, I was never sentenced. I was awaiting my next hearing.

So I was just there to my next hearing, my next arraignment. Because they wouldn't sign as a guardian. Because they wouldn't sign as a guardian for bail. And my arraignment was like in 30 days. So right before the 30 days she bailed me. And now that I think of it based on how it played out, they obviously dropped the charges because I never got charged or nothing ever happened with the domestic.

They just essentially probably extended my probation because of the violation for like another six months and then that ended up going away. Wow. So what was that one month experience like for you? It sucked, dude. You go to school in there. You fucking eat shitty food.

And think about it. I'm living on my own, used to this lifestyle. Now you're being told what to do. You're on a strict regimen. Even though I was on a strict regimen to some degree, You know, you have to go to school. I had to do work, but then I had to come home and, you know, make my moves, get my money, do what I was doing. But in there, you're in a strict regimen.

You're waking up fucking super early. They make you mop the floor every day, do your laundry every day. You get rec time for like an hour and you sit in between aisles. You can't look back. You can't look forward. You can't really talk. It's fucking weird. Did you have a cellmate?

The cellmate that was indicted until he was 18 for paralyzing his brother or some shit. But I never really talked to him. I just kind of, I just always minded my business. I talked to my boy. The first day, the next day I talked to my boy, I got. up with him like, so how do I make this stay comfortable? Like, what do I got to do? You know, I was very, you know, cognizant of the situation I was in.

So I didn't want to, you know, add any more charges to do anything to fuck up what I was currently, you know, make anything worse. And you just was like, yo, does mind your business here? You're a big dude. They're not going to fuck with you. But at the same time, don't take handouts. And it's juvenile jail, right? There's ain't fucking offense. This ain't, you know, county jail.

But usually, don't take handouts. Just mind your business. Ask, answer question when you ask. But other than that, just stay up the way. You're going to go to school every day. you'll be in my class because you're my age group. But yeah, that's what it was. Same shit.

School Monday through Friday, on the weekends, you get more wreck time. But other than that, from what I remember, such a while ago, 2015, I was in late. I think it was called Leahy Worcester Juvenile Detention Center. What were the age groups? Anything from 11, 12 years old, up until 18, that was the cutoff. Because if you're 18, you're going to go to county and be tried as an adult. And what kind of charges were you surrounded by? All types.

Drugs, murder. Murder. And the murders were in. indictments and just all types of people. But again, I just played it as cool as I can. Again, my time wasn't going to be too long. I just was like, you know, this is just a holdover. And either I was going to, so when I made another phone call in a week,

I was going to try to have someone bail me out until I found out if you're under 18. You can't just have a friend that's 15 years old come fucking bail you're out of jail. So he ended up, I ended up again waiting to the next, oh, actually got bailed out. And then the next hearing again, they just extended my probation. Did you ever look at the kids that were accused of murder and wonder how they got there? And maybe even be like to yourself, if I continue down this path, that could be me. 100%. So I looked around and I was like, why am I here, dude? I'm like, no knock on these people, but why am I here? I believe I'm much smarter than these dudes because you had a couple of conversation with some of these kids and they were interesting folks.

But I was just like, why am I here, dude? I always was very cognizant and very, you know, accountable for my actions. And I always, you know, always, always, always was like, if I'm in an adverse or a tough situation, like, it's my choice. I got myself here. I never blamed other people. That was the thing. I did for a portion, you know, depending on if I was drunk or, you know, an influence or something, I would always, you know, be egotistical and point the finger. But I just looked around and I was like, this shit ain't me. And from that day, that's when I really made the biggest change in my life after bailing out of there was, you know, coming out, coming home.

And you never got into trouble again after that. So I did When I said that I made the biggest change I was like I'm gonna move super smart I'm gonna be super militant So you're trying to Juvenile detention made you smarter a little bit

Dude juvenile detention just made me know That like that like that you know what it's like to be a handcuffs That shit sucks that shit's demoralizing It's dehumanizing And they treat you like shit There's so much evil in those places Whether it's juvenile whether it's county I never been to the feds

But it's just so evil That energy that it possesses It's just nasty and you're just like I never want to be in that position again. And once I came home, again, I turned the hustle up into super overdrive. And I want to say, I don't know, I don't think I got in trouble again. No, I didn't. The first thing I did when I came out saw from here was called my basketball coach.

And I said, listen, I want to come back on the team because people caught winning, low, you know, word of mouth, people hear what's going on. You know, I'm driving around some of the brand new cars. I don't even have a license. How do I have a fucking brand new car? You know what I mean? And I call them like, you listen, I want to be on the basketball team. Like, how do I get back? At this point, I'm like screw baseball.

You know, I've been to literally Hall of Fame. I was one of the best baseball players in the town. I'm like, you know, I want to play basketball. I'm going to lock in with basketball. No pun intended, locked in Ian Bick. Get it now. So he was like, oh, listen, you got to show me, don't tell me. Oh, and also because I went to jail, I got kicked out of my high school.

So I had to go to alternative school. I had to finish my sophomore year at an alternative high school. And then I had to do my sophomore year all over again the next year. So I stayed back because I was supposed to graduate in 2008 and I graduated in 2009 because of that. But I did my whole year at the alternative school. still doing my thing, hustling, making money, paying bills, survive and maintaining. How are kids looking at you as someone that just got out of juvenile detention?

Dude, I'm a piece of shit. They don't want to be around. Like, my boys, the people I was close with, they were my guys. And I was looked at as like the guy. But again, I hung around with older people that were the bigger guy and, you know, that really were heavy in the streets. So I was just a little guy to them. But to the kids I grew up with playing baseball, I'm a piece of shit.

You know, no offense. White kids looking at the black kid. They knew I was going to end up down that road. I was a fucking crash dummy. I crashed out, essentially, which I did. But I was looked, back then when you smoked weed and if you ever got arrested, you were looked at like you smoked crack like you did heroin. That shit wasn't cool, like how it is now.

Everyone's smoking weed. Everyone's fucking got all the weed and everything. It's so cool now to have all the Jordans that have all the weed. Back then, if they knew you were on that, on that type of stuff, you were looked at as literally like a heroin addict. There's like a junkie, like a customer. It wasn't cool at all. But I just did it because I knew how to survive.

The only way I knew how to survive, how I wanted to survive, was, you know, hustling. What was your relationship with your grandparents once you got out? Wasn't much. Wasn't much going on. So you just went back right to doing what you were doing? 100%.

But I just knew I can't drive. Don't drive. Get the wifey. The wifey got the car in her name, so we're good. Wifee? What are you married? Or you got just a girlfriend? We were from.

We were from you call your girlfriend Wiifi. So Wifie had all the, so I'll give her the money to get the down payment to get the loan on the car. I mean, I owned, my first car I bought was a Lexus. Back then, Alexis was with a shit. I bought a gold Lexus for like a thousand bucks back then a thousand was a lot of money had that car and then I got a new Nissan Maxima and it'll get in trouble for I got a I got a trouble for I got a ticket being pulled over in the maximum I got a ticket my ended up getting my license revoked for fucking 10 years for that that go that segues into a whole other story but yeah no around that time went to 100 coach said get

show me don't tell me if you want to get back on the team so I got he let me back on the team but I was not that good so I sat on the bench the whole year so that's my sophomore year that whole summer I worked my balls off I still was hustling, but I was more low about it. I was more modest in terms of how I exemplified my hustle. I wasn't dressing. I wasn't trying to go too crazy and be too revealing. But I worked out all summer. And my team that year was fucking really good in sophomore year. We ended up losing to Cambridge and Latin in Nam.

I want to say the semifinals of the state tournament. And then come back my junior year, which is 2008, which should have been my senior year, but it was my junior year because I went to jail, got kicked out of high school. And then, 08, we have preseasoned. We're the best team in the state, Best team of Massachusetts preseason ranked number one.

Now I'm starting on this team. I'm one of the only starters that's not, I'm one of five starters that's only a junior. And we end up fucking steamrolling teams. And back then, again, there's no social media. So it's like you're not, it's not like we're ranked, you know, in the United States and none of that shit. No, we're just known as the best team in mass.

There was a magazine called the Rise magazine. And that's what you got your notoriety. Like, oh, who's the next best team you look at the Rise magazine? Lowell's number one. And yeah, we were number one up until we played. Central Catholic, I believe. Excuse me, if you end up being 13.

I think we lost to them. But yeah, my whole junior year, I'm still hustling, going hard with the best. So now, like, it's a little,

now I'm a little more modest in terms of the hustle, but now my ego's still getting filled again in another way. Now I'm on the number one basketball team in the state. Now shit's really moving.

But mind you, I'm leaving basketball practice and I'm going home to hustling. I'm going home to my girl making my food telling me, if I had moves to make, I'm just sending them to her. You know what I mean?

I'm just like, yo, she's handling that. She's handling all the transactions. And again, I had enough respect where people weren't getting over on her. You know, they trusted, you know. And again, it wasn't like I was nickel and diamond. Like I wasn't hand-to-hand doing 39 transactions in a day. I was doing four or five bigger ones, you know, making enough money where I didn't have to do that, you know.

So, yeah. Did your rankings in basketball help get you out of trouble or help keep you from getting into more trouble? Depends on who you ask. And it depends on who I was dealing with. for sure again that year we were like celebrities it's so crazy because being on that team being a part of that situation we were like again there was no social media but to our high school to our local towns we're those guys if we ever walked to a store oh that's a kid that plays on low like that's fucking and and wherever you were but yeah even with teachers with the with the law

but again I was a lot smarter and I think I mean looking back it wasn't that's fucking smart but I thought but I just stayed out of trouble and again we partied hard again when high school we're drinking a ton 16 17 years old we're fucking partying and I'm the plug in one of my best friends is the plug and again I'm not glorifying the shit this shit the shit looking back you know I just had to do it to survive that's I mean I could have gotten a regular job and fucking worked in market basket McDonald's but that just wasn't me I mean I had too much pride and respect for myself and not that people not to disrespect people that do do that it's

honest living but I just didn't want I just wouldn't couldn't subject myself to that so yeah we're fucking partying and we're on top of the world it's like we literally looked at like I don't even know what to compare it to but we literally are those guys, like in the town. And then, so that year, we end up losing to Central Catholic in the Sangas Arena, which is in Lowell, conveniently right across from Lowell High, there's a Songass Arena,

a big facility. So we end up, you know, losing to them, and we end up being, you know, one of the best teams ever out of Lowell High. We get all this notoriety. We're in the record books, all this great stuff. So junior year ends, I come back as a senior 2009. Now I'm the big dog on campus.

Now it's my team. Now it's my turn. And, you know, next up, to prove myself, you know, to hopefully get a scholarship to go to college and play basketball for free. My junior year, I got a lot of notoriety, but I was a role player on that team, and that's my other thing. I always embraced being a role player. I feel like a lot of kids these days, especially when it comes of coaching, and I try to emphasize this when I do coaches. Like, everyone has a role, whether it's life, whether it's on basketball, whatever you do, you have a role player, role to the fullest extent.

And on that junior year team, I was just a role player, you know, grab 10, 15 rebounds, maybe two dunks, get the crowd going crazy, and that's what I did. But coming to senior year, now it's all on me. Now I've got to score the points, grab all the rebounds and, you know, carry the team on my back. And while hustling, living this kind of double life, you know, trying to be a straight-A student because my coach said, listen, if you're not, if your grades aren't here, one, I'm not going to fuck with you, but two, you're going to hinder your ability to go to college and play hoops at a high level or higher level.

And then did you end up going to college? I did. So my senior year, they caught wind of what was going on, the local newspaper, which is a Lowell Sun. They ended up writing an article about me. I was on the front page of the Lowell Sun Sports section called the Second Chance Kid. And that's the article I sent you. And that got me a lot of notoriety.

But that whole year, I was killing it. I was dropping not 30 a game, but like 25 a game, 25 and 15. Average in, you know, yeah, 25 and 15th, I had a bunch of 30, 20, 20, games 30 points 20 rebounds bunch of dunks and that in itself was getting me a lot of notoriety but as a knucklehead back then after every game I had seven eight coaches waiting for me after every game to talk to me you know trying to recruit me heavily recruiting me and what I was doing was like in the beginning it was cool because after the games everyone kind of hangs around the court and when they see these coaches wearing these tracksuits with Nike signs on them and whatnot you're like wow that's freaking cool Nate's talking to this

guy Nate's talking to that guy um after a while I'm like dude this sucks I'm wasting time I'm talking to these guys, I might not even go to college. I'm started sneaking out the back doors because, dude, I'm missing out on money. I'm trying to go to this party. I'm trying to hang out with this girl. Knucklehead shit. You know what I mean? But yeah, it did end up going to college.

I end up going to Salem State University in Salem Mass. Graduated in four years, started as a freshman, which was like unheard of at the time. And again, I wasn't that good at basketball looking back. I just, anything I do, I just try to go balls to the wall with. I just don't know any other way. My thing is like it's a waste of time to kind of be mediocre at something. And just like hustling, if I'm going to hustle, I'm not going to be half-ass at it. And again, it's not cool.

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Why didn't you continue on the path you were on when you got into college and future later in life? I did. Oh, you did? Oh, I did. Okay. If you ever seen the movie, Blow? No, I got to watch it. Johnny Depp. It's about Boston George. I've heard about it. He went into Jill. He said he had a bachelor's in weed and came out with a masses in cocaine. I never sold cocaine, but my point is I was doing my thing in high school, but you go to college, it just went into super overdrive.

And again, coming from where I come from, like the goal isn't to invest, save you money, spend your money wisely. It's to buy all the jewelry or the nice clothes or cars. And back then, the goal was to buy a 745 L-I-B-M-W. That's what I wanted. As an 18-year-old, 19-year-old kid, that was my biggest goal, like either a role. or a 745 BMW and that's what I did. So as a freshman, so as a freshman, I was moving a little bit. You know, I was smart.

I got on campus, I kind of looked around and see what was going on, you know, what do I got to do? How do I set up shop, so to speak? And subsequently my best friend at my plug at the time died. He overdosed on Perkinsets. That was a big thing at the time. And I don't know if you've seen the show Dopesick. That was like the epitome of what happened to my buddy.

you know got his wisdom teeth taken out got hooked on perks or started on perks started dabbling with um um um heroin and shit just because it's a cheaper fix and to go back real quick just to senior high school my coach almost kicked me off the team senior high school ended up being the player of the year MVP all that good stuff right um right in an article about me almost got kicked off the team though because my girlfriend at the time got mad at me because she saw me hanging around with other girls She sent a pitcher to my coach of me with like 40 pounds of weed. And this is hydro back in the day. This is kind butt.

I don't know what you guys called it back then, but hydroponics and Lowell. We called it KB. That was the piff. The sour, the exotics, all the gas, the burner boys, all that shit. The gumbo was the KB. And she sent that picture to my coach. I almost got kicked off the team. He gives me a second chance, luckily.

And shout out to him, Coach Boyle, man. Between my grandparents and Coach Boyle, without those three people, I either would be dead or in jail right now. No doubt about it. But going to college, freshman year, my best friend dies, passes away, rest and peace to him.

So I'm fucked up. I'm hurting, man. Like, not only does my best friend die because that means more to me than the money, but my plug passes away. So now start square one. So, and mind you, I'm on the basketball team. I'm at Salem State to play basketball.

Salem State at the time was known as one of the best division three schools in the country. And so now I'm just like, you know, let me just focus on basketball for a while. Focus on hoop for a while. Get a call. Might have been a Facebook message. I never had Facebook growing up. I had MySpace back in the day.

And I get a Facebook message and he, and I get a message from somebody. And they're like, oh, you're still doing your thing? I'm like, nah, I'm fucking tapped up right now. You know what happened to this dude. Actually, it might have been at his funeral. I bumped into this kid. And then fucking he ends up. He's, you know, I'm going to hit you up on Facebook.

I'm like, cool. Sounds good. Whatever. He ends up hitting me. Oh, yo, I got a Cali plug. back then Cali plugs is that's when the floodgates open you know you could get the the bomb of the bomb the fire the fire for the low like the super cheap prices and that's what I did and he started plugging me up and then started with a couple ounces turned into a couple

peas turned into a lot more than that but then again I was always the guy I didn't want to deal with fucking 20 30 people a day like in college it's not bad because it's like if I'm with Ian, me and you are matching up, right? You roll a blunt, I roll a blunt will smoke. People could come see me. That's cool. It's easy. But again, I'm counting $20, $30, $40.

Like, no, I don't want it. I wanted to count $800 at a time, $1,500 a time, $2,500, $2,500. And then wholesale, because wholesale, you're making $5,600 at a time. And that's really ideal to me in that predicament that I was in because I have free housing. Technically not free housing because, again, I had fucking financial aid. But, yeah. I just, I turned into overdrive.

I ended up, I think I bought an accurate seal at the time, which was the cool car. But then six months after, I got back on my feet once I got the Cali plug. I was driving home one time. So a 745 L.I. And a dealership walked in there. I said, what's going on? He said, what's up? I'm like, yo, what's the deal with that seven out there?

He's like, he kind of like looked at me a little crazy because I was, I think it was 20 at the time, 1920. Kind of disrespectful and I have an ego, you know? I try to be better with that now, you know, once you learn a little more. He was kind of disrespectful to me, and I was like, listen, I'm not going to buy it cash, but I'll put a fat down payment down, and, you know, I could get a loan and ended up doing that. And I remember pulling up to campus and a 745 LIBW, no license. I told you. I didn't have a license for a long fucking time. It was under my girl's name.

Two weeks later, go to Mohegan's son, win like 10 grand at Mohegan, come back home, buy a motorcycle. So now I'm sophomore, junior now. So this is like I'm kind of jumping all over a place, but from freshman of junior year, moving heavyweight um seven BMW motorcycle and just fucking moving crazy dude

getting drunk as fuck doing wheelies in the motorcycle after parties doing burnouts but you never got a cough for any of this never got caught I almost got caught one time one fucking time on campus because that's when the weed gets a little

stronger in college and I got the Cali plug now I got that fire and and luckily I don't know how I knew this but these goofy campus police try to search my fucking room and I said listen until you get a warrant get the fuck away from my door and the room that I lived in was like a brand new dorm so you had to check in in the in the front and these cops it's fucked up I remember I went to serve someone right outside like it is crazy I served them

right outside so my dorm's here I serve the person here the the the campus police was like right there and I served them right in front but again it was like a quick little fucking 20 bag boom because it was like a friend I would hook up a friend here and there if you want a 20 bag I'll hook you out But other than that, I'm not doing any light shit. But then I would keep, you know, some decent work in the house. And that was the other thing. Growing up and not growing up in Salem Mass, I was smart. You know, I was cool with people in the area.

And I kind of would people around like, oh, where did you get that stuff from? And they're like, oh, no, no, I'm like, oh, let me see it. And I'm like, oh, that shit's whack. Like, I got some fire. Fuck with me. Like, it hit me up. And then I linked up with somebody that was from there. And now had their whole clientele in Salem, Mass.

So then that's when it really took an overdrive my bad. I kind of jumped around freshman year. I always had my own plug. I always had my own plug, but my clientele was still based out of Lull, still based over there. Had a few new clients on campus from school. But then once I hooked up with someone from the town or from the city, excuse me, that's when it fucking overdrive. And then now I'm going 100 with this person.

Now I got people from campus that are from Boston. I'm putting them on. So I got people going to Boston. I got people going back to Lull and I got the whole city of Salem booming. Like, I'm talking booming. And again, that's when I'm, the seven beam is light for me. That shit. Where would you store it?

So at that time, it was, so my junior year, the senior dorms are like, basically, they look like many condos. So I basically had my own little condos. I would just store there. But there was a container store in the area, and I just bought a lot of fucking containers. But we had the vacuum seal machines. I don't know if you ever been around a lot of weed. You get the food saver bags. You have those bags, you seal them up.

And you, fuck, once you seal those things, you can't smell shit. And you would just keep them, like, onto the bed. Stashed. Yeah, basically, no safe. Because, I mean, people respect me. I don't act like I'm this like Don Julio, Don Wong guy, but people like me, I guess, and no one, I never got, dude, I've never, I got robbed in Lowell as a kid in high school.

I got robbed like a knife put to my throat, gun put to my head. And I got another crazy story about that. But not, no one ever robbed me. I just would keep it in the room. I had the key to my spot. And everyone was eating. And that's the thing, too. I like, was putting everyone on.

So, like, you rob me, you robbed 10 other people. And like, if I gave the word, not that I'm. I'm, you know, punishing people, but not that I'm hurting people too bad, but like, if I gave the word, it's going to get dealt with it. And that's what it was. Yeah, tell us the gun story. So my junior year of high school, might have been my sophomore year, sophomore year, actually. The kid that was mopping the floor at Leahy Worcester said, yo, I got a lick. I'm like, oh, what's up?

There's a place we could go to where there's 10,000 cash, 15,000 cash. I'm like, sign me up. So at that time, we didn't have no license. We always, we were cool with the older people, so I'd hit up one of my home girls. Yeah, yeah, I need you to drive. What do you mean? You're going to drive us somewhere. We didn't tell her what the fuck was going on.

You're going to drive. We're going to pay you money. Okay, sounds good. My buddy tells me the house where it is. Dude, I walk in there, no one's there. The door's unlocked. Grab three envelopes. One has all hundreds.

One has all 20s and 50s leave. 15 grand. Boom. So that week of high school, we skipped school the whole two weeks. I had older friends. I'm paying them to rent me hotels. The whole week. This is 2005.

It was a double tree hotel. I rented a hotel suite for two weeks straight in high school. And back then, Reggie Weed, so I bought a pound of weed that was probably like $400, $500. We'd buy Garcia. That's what we smoked. Garcia Vegas are Philly Blunts, white owls, boxes of those. And we'd go to homeroom and round up. Everybody come to the hotel.

We bought a party. Had friends buy us liquor, obviously. And we were partying. And I remember one time we got a phone call like, yo, yo, bro. Is any way we could get like, fucking, like a couple ounces. I'm like, yeah, fuck it. I remember we wouldn't even, I wouldn't even have done that, but I had to go to the store

to buy duchess. And I forget why I went. And we were picking up one of my other friends. So I was like, fuck it, I'll go for the ride. The dudes I know that kind of hood dudes, but we're good, what I thought we were good in the town. We pull up, my boys in the front seat, our driver, the girl driver that we always had was in the front seat.

My other good friend on the side of me. And, oh, yo, bro, what up? My boys heard you guys are eating this and that. Because, you know, we're going around time. We have hotel suites every, you know, throwing these big parties every fucking day. Kind of like you. Throwing parties, you know, inviting everybody and their mother.

And they're telling me, let me holler at you real quick. Get out the car. And at this time, I'm connected to some serious street dudes. So I'm not even thinking like anything's up because I'm like, I know they know who I fuck with. I was the only one that was connected to those dudes. My two other friends, the girl driver,

she was just the driver. And my two other friends, they just were, you know, regular dudes. But I was connected to some serious people. and Lowell, I'm not thinking of it. So I'm just shooting the shit. One dude comes to my window without Brody. I serve him, whatever he asks for.

My bro, he's like, oh, yeah, my bro gets out the car. And all I hear is, you, bro, don't do that. And I look over. Don't move. And I'm like, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's what we're doing. I'm like, you know, just put the, don't, you know, that shit can, you know, whatever. I'm like, you don't do, put that down. So the dude put the, the two pulled a knife from my boy, had a gun in my head,

then walked around to my other boy. So basically we got God I remember back then Cart Hearts was a shit 2005 Brand new Carhart jacket Brand new Jays No jewelry I had two phones

I had a hat on It took my hat took my phone Stupid shit They got off with like maybe $150 a weed And I just remember Hot leaving They didn't touch the girl They didn't mess with the girl

Honorable guys there Fucking use her phone Call my homies That shit I got that shit back In like two hours And I got that shit back in like two hours And they say they they met up with them tied them up put them in a bath to beat the shit out of him

they say that I don't care what happened I just wanted my shit back because that phone that's the money that's the breadwinner right there that's the money maker and I just was hot out of respect bro you put a gun on my head that's crazy you pull the knife of my man and at the end of the day I would have gave it to you like you know what I'm saying not that I got pistol up but nothing I would have just you asked me to front it to you I would rather you ask me to front it to you and you just run off on me with it you know what I'm saying I don't like to me that I I just didn't like that shit. And that's what had me turn.

I turned up a little bit on some, like, not that I ever bought guns and shit, but now I was like I was, I was just on some gangster shit. But that was high school, college came around. Like I said, I started moving serious way. I still was on my piece and cues. And I always had a phone call that I could make. If I needed a gun, it was a phone call away. If I needed something to put in that type of work, it was a phone call away.

But I didn't want to move like that. I never wanted to be a tough guy. I never wanted to be a gangster. I just wanted to make fucking money, make sure people around me ate good. And at that time, I was helping my grandmother. So at this time, I'm cool with my grandparents again. And I'm helping my grandmother pay some of her bills. I'm helping, you know, people.

I'm giving people money. And again, I'm paying for a 745 BMW. I'm paying for a motorcycle. I'm doing all this shit. And no one's really asking questions. Because I was just such a sociable kid that I'm going to the athletic director. I'm super cool with the athletic director at Salem State. And I'm talking to him.

And he's like, oh, you got that motorcycle. I see you're like, you're parking my spot. With him never at, on campus, you can park in my spot, the athletic director of a, you know, prestigious institution. And he's in the fucking black. kid for more parking's fucking I'm like sounds good so I'm good not to mention I'm good with some some people that I was really tight with their brothers or family members were cops in the town so now I'm good with some party with all the cops I'm going to a ruba vacation with cops sergeants of the police force in that town and do I think they know what I was on probably but they know it's only

weed I'm not selling heroin I'm not fucking chasing people down kicking down doors running in people's cribs I'm just literally the guy that like if I'm at a party you want to smoke you smoke for free I'm throwing you weed, smoke for free. I'm buying all the liquor. That type of stuff. I'm not out here back then. Poping bottles wasn't a thing. Going to the club fucking VIP bottle service, hookah, all that shit wasn't a thing. And I've still to this day, I'm not into that shit. But back then it wasn't a thing. I just always made sure the people around me were straight. And I took care of a lot of people around me. And again, I had work in Boston. I had work in Lowell, had work in Salem, had to a lot of different places. You're just your typical dealer. Your typical high school

college dealer. This is more than seven years ago. Just FYI. I graduated Salem State in 2014. So just to show clear. Salem State College. Salem State University, 2014. And that's when you put everything behind you. I was doing it a little bit after I graduated. But as you leave school, you're not on campus with all this clientele. And you're not around people as much.

So it's harder to be connected to people as much as you were. So it slowed down a little bit. And then I just... What was your wake-up call? Getting caught up with work. Almost getting caught up at work. Someone snitched on me. Someone set me up, basically, in Lowell.

I had... I remember I just re-uped on just like a five-pack of some way, you're nothing crazy. And I was at my grandparents' house at the time. And I remember bagging up and he was like, oh, I need a QP or something, four ounces. And this kid I was hitting over the head. I was charging him like, if I was giving you just sick easy numbers. So if I'm giving you a QP for 500 bucks, I was giving it to him for $9.50.

And that's like almost doubling up. So one day, and he was from the next town over. And he fucking hit me up like, oh, I'm in town. I could come meet you. And it was kind of weird. I was like, you know, that shit was different. Usually I would meet him on campus. Usually I would call him to meet him.

But he was gunhole about meeting me. And fucking ended up meeting this dude. And at this time, I think it was my junior, senior in college. I'm doing an internship in Lowell at the Boys and Girls Club at Lowell. So I'm ready to get my degree. I'm doing all the things to get my degree in motion. And I'm doing an internship. And this kid fucking, I go to meet him.

And at the time, I'm with a female friend. She's my driver. I have backpacks in the trunk, two backpacks. No, one backpack. I remember I left four units on my grandmother's crib and I had one unit that had the QPs. So it had four QPs. And I had it stuffed in like a secret compartment of like a softball bag. So like if you open this softball bag, it would have gloves.

You would never know until you open this like compartment. And fucking we end up pulling up to this spot. And I remember like, I remember meeting them at Walmart. For whatever reason I would like to meet at like busy places. You know what I mean? So you could come and go. It's not uncommon for two cars to meet up or just to have, two cars who always meet at busy places and fucking the weird shit was as I'm pulling up he's

like parked away from everybody I'm like what the fuck is wrong with this kid like literally the front of the store tons of cars and he's like 10 excuse me 10 rolls removed but me having dealt with the kid for a while nothing and nothing of it I'm in a rush I'm ready to get home get the work go back to school he fucking he's there I pull up next to him so he like gets up the car I'm like dude what the fuck you why do you get out the car usually I could just chuck it to you throw me an envelope on my way. It's like 30 seconds. And, you know, see you later.

He gets out the car. He starts leaning over the car, talking about, what up, bro? Some fire. I'm like, bro, what are you doing? There's always some gas. Like, what are you doing? And I don't know how you used to roll around back in the day, but back in that you roll around in a car stupidly, you always have like a scale in that metal console and

maybe like seven grams that you'd pick from to smoke, like your head smoke, your head stash. So he fucking hops out. And then out of nowhere, D-boys, two D-boys roll out. And as we're pulling away. actually and we stopped I remember taking the money that he gave me stuff it in my balls same system that I always had with the sock in my balls stuffing in my balls here's where you can see and guns drawn and shit I'm like the fuck is going on mind you I have three QPs in the trunk individually bag that's an intent to distribute

pack scaling here fucking bunch of other random cash in there probably like 500 bucks random cash and I'm like fuck so I'm like all right seven grams ain't nothing and at that time we was becoming decriminalized you know what I mean wasn't a big deal, but the scale, the money, that weed, the weed in the trunk. So they pull me out the car. They tried to play it into like, because it was a girl, like I'm this kingpin, and they're trying to get her to snitch on me on the scene. And they're trying to talk to her without me. And if I was a dirtbag, I was in the passenger seat, I could have been like, yo, if you find anything in the car, that's not her. It's in her possession. It's her vehicle. It's not mine. I'm just a passenger.

You know what I mean? I could keep walking if I want. But I'm not that guy and super good person. so they're searching me they don't find no money they're like yeah where's the money I'm like what money you talk about I'm just playing dumb because this is how I found out that do set me up because they're like yeah where's the money I'm like what fucking money are you talking about

I saw what you just did but I'm like what are you talking I'm just playing dumb long and short they end up having the local the cops come and they search me they search the trunk I'm like oh my god the fucking units are in there I'm like what the fuck search the trunk they don't find it once they don't find it I'm like I'm good now

I'm fucking golden I think of a fuck about seven grand I'm not going to fuck with a scale, but they never closed the trunk. So when a local cop came out, did you search the car? Like, yeah, we searched the trunk. You can search it again if you want. I'm like, fuck. So they search the trunk again.

Don't find shit. Slam the trunk close. Once they slam the trunk close, I'm golden. Now you need a warrant for that motherfucker because we ignorantly open that trunk. You know what I'm saying? Without a warrant, they search a trunk. Don't find shit. Then they're like, you know what?

Just give me the money back. We'll let you go home. Because if you don't give me the money, we're arrest you. I'm like, for what? It's seven grams. Like, yo, we could arrest you for that. And I'm like, in my mind, I'm thinking, I'm like, I got an internship. I'm about to finish college.

I can't pick up a drug charge. I won't be allowed on campus. I'll be kicked out of school. I'm a star. At this point, I'm a captain of the basketball team of college, you know, prestigious institutions, Salem State University. We ain't on my option. So I'm like, you know what?

Fuck it. I'm like, listen, I'm going to record you right now saying that once you give me, I give you back this money, you know, I could go free. So I did that, whatever. Ended up giving them back the money. He knew exactly the dollar amount of what the kid gave me. And I could see them. And I'm like, yo, why don't you talk to us all together?

I'm like, if he's, oh, he had weed on him. I'm like, yo, if he had weed on him, why are you talking to me and not him? He got the drugs. I got a little bit of weed. How did you even know I had weed allegedly? How do you even know I got money? And I can see the other cop talking to the kid basically like, you better have done it the right way or whatever. And it just was all fishy.

Come to find out, they send me a summons for this weed, right? The alleged weed I sell this kid. I take it to trial with a public defender. She was fucking great. And hats off to her. She ended up saying like, you know, There was two cars facing what they saw was a transaction with headlights shining on them. How could you ever see a transaction?

Yada yada yada, take it to trial. I get on the stand. I'm like, listen, I'm a captain of a prestigious university, man. This can ruin my life. I'm not that guy. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm not guilty. And that was the wake-up call.

That's when I was like, you know what? I'm tapping out. Once I get my degree from Salem, I'm going to fucking go legit. I got a degree now. What we thought back then, once you get a degree, you're set for life, which is clearly not the case. I'm not fucking around I'm done with this shit

you know I ended up I ended up getting it's funny at the time I ended up buying a new BMW because if anyone that's had a 7 series BMW knows their pieces of shit I put speakers in it you know put some sound in it and it started fucking I ended up getting a new BMW

once I got the new BMW that's when I just was like you know it's a clean BMW it's a low key one got rid of the bike and then I'm out the game you know selling like the family I'm not selling huge not that I was selling huge either

but I just would sell like If you wanted 14 grams, I'll pick up a QP at a time maybe once every two weeks and sell out of a QP. But it was just to smoke for free, you know, because if I could sell you or people at a fair price, I could still get head smoke for free. And that's what I was doing. Do you feel lucky and grateful that you were never ultimately caught for the drug business? Super lucky, super grateful. And you see some people that were in your position, they're away for years. Smoked.

Getting smoked. Yeah, for sure. I just think, and again, not to took my own horn. I just was, dude, I wasn't. outside buying Rolexes in fucking, and contradicting what I just said, because I was driving around in a 745 L.I, $100,000 car. But aside from the car, I wasn't, again, at the club bottle service and doing all that shit, I'll go to the club, but I'll stay in the cut once in a while. I wasn't, I just was the guy that, like, I wasn't going to the hood and shitting on people

and looking down on people. I just try to be cool with everybody. I mean, if I did go to the hood, if I would go to some of the hoods in Boston, it was to show love, like, in to not give out money, but like, I'm buying food, I'm buying drinks. I'm like holding everybody down. And I wasn't going out there by myself. Like, sometimes I go there Dolo. If one of my people that was out there that I could trust, I'll be there by myself in some of the hoods. But it wasn't there to chill there all night or to do stupid shit or to sell drugs.

It just was to kick it there because those are my friends. And that's where they're from. And I wanted to understand their culture and their environment. And just to chill, just to hang out. Those are my people. Are you worried that some people might get the wrong idea of your story saying, oh, you know, I could do it and not get caught to. That's the other concern where when I, you know, I've been on other podcasts, it's like,

my thing is when I speak on this stuff, is this to give you an idea of what I was doing, and it's not to glorify anything. Is this to show you that you could come from, you know, being adopted by people or being adopted by someone and not having your parents around throughout high school and, you know, still finishing high school, finishing college, getting a degree. No one told me to do that shit. I just thought it was the right thing to do. And, you know, I just did it because.

I wanted more for myself. I'd never been the kid that kind of settled for mediocrity. And to each his own, everyone's version of success is unique. You know, it's like the eye of the beauties and the eye of the beholder, the pursuit of happiness. Your version of happiness might not be mine. Your version of success might not be mine. Everyone might not want to be Andrew Tate in a Bugatti. You know what I'm saying? Someone might just want a nine to five, be able to pay their bills and make honest living. That just wasn't me in the sense of just a regular nine to five. but looking back, I was very lucky, very fortunate, very blessed, and, you know, all praises to the most high. But at the end of the day, it's all about perspective and being accountable and, you know, being resilient, you know, and we could go left and right to this, but it's just about being ambitious because a lot of people have been in my position and gave up, became junkies.

You know how many friends I know that are dead right now and six feet underground? How many funerals I've been to? You know how many people are locked up right now? And there's been so many situations where life got so hard, and I was like, why me? My senior year were college. I used to keep up, my father was fighting a murder case, right? And he used to write me letters. I didn't give a fuck about him.

And I never opened them, but I would keep one in my locker in college. And before games, I would look at the front of the letter because he spelled my name wrong, my own biological dad. I would look at that letter and say, N-A-T-H-E-N, and that shit will fire me the fuck up. And I'll go out there, drop 30 points, grab 20 rebounds. and hopefully win the game. But my point behind saying that is, is that I never felt bad for myself.

To me, to me as a man and not to go into genders and all that other stuff, but to me as a man, and even as a woman, like to make excuses, to me, that's weird. Like,

I've never been a proponent of excuses. I've been a proponent of hard work. And there's been times I've worked jobs, like landscaping jobs, making minimum wage working 10-hour days after trapping and making lots of fucking money. But then that, showed me work ethic, you know, that showed me, you know, what it takes to kind of get to

where you're trying to get to. Because without hard work, I don't care what you do. You need to work hard. You need a work ethic. You need some type of idea of where you're going and how you're going to get there. And without hard work, you're not going to get there. What's your life like now for you? So now I'm just all about family, you know, family and just kind of, you know, making investments and just, you know, not staying low key, but just trying to expand and just trying to do things that they're going to put my family in the best position possible to succeed. You know, I'm the man of the house, so I got to do what I can for my family. That's my why.

That's my reason. And without them, not that I don't know where I would be, I know, I'd still be somewhere working hard, you know. Like I told you, I was a teacher for 10 years, man, and I love teaching and I love being around kids. I've been a coach for 10 years, and I love, you know, helping out. I would rent vehicles and pick up kids and, you know, set up scrimmages with local coaches and bring them home, buy them pizza, bring them home.

I'll do all that stuff. And I never asked the athletic director for reimbursement, none of that stuff. I just did it because I know what that did for me. Because when my coach did that for me, my junior senior year, my sophomore year, and had that camaraderie and building that culture, it had me wanting to stay on the right path and not, you know, fuck off opportunities and fuck off situations. But yeah, and, you know, now is, you know, I'm just working and just trying to stay, stay driven, stay focused, you know, like we talked about in the beginning.

And, you know, I just finished the book. That's one of, you know, many books to come. I'm working on a documentary, not my own life documentary. a different type of documentary. And just, you know, staying very much modest and resilient towards life because, you know, the importance of growth is everything. People kind of get complacent at times, you know, once you get a decent job and you can pay your bills and everyone's fed, you get a little complacent, you get a little

gut, you know, and life's on you. But I just want to stay motivated and stay, you know, in the position to help others. That's my biggest thing. Each one, teach one. And always learn. I'm a big reader, man. That's part of why I wrote the book. You know, I love Marcus Aurelius.

I love philosophy. I love, you know, learning about yourself, knowledge of self, self development. And just finding ways to maximize my person as a human as a person on this planet. Because I used to work for this millionaire, this guy, great guy, he took a liking to me. And he told me, he said, you know what, Nate? You know, he said, I know a lot of people that have, you know, a hammer, a hammer for life. Say a carpenter, a hammer. Two belt of life.

He's like, you're two belt of life. He's like, have that hammer, but have a screwdriver. have a tape measure. Some people are one-dimensional. He's like, I think you're multi-dimensional. As long as you continue to sharpen those skills, you're going to be all right. And I truly believe that. I think everyone has that potential. I just think people become, you know, sidetracked or distracted by, you know, life. Life happens. There's a lot going on in this world. And it's hard sometimes, you know, sometimes you got to, you know, not follow your passion because you have to, you know, pay the bills. And everyone can't, you know, profit from their passion. And that's the

reality. But it's inevitable that you've got to put in the work. So, At the ground level, you got to bust your ass, you know, run through a wall. And I think hard work creates, you know, opportunity. And I'm sure you're a proponent of that. And I say that to say, everything I just spoke upon is my story, right? I did it. And I did what I had to do to survive. If I could go back when I change it, God, no, what I dumped it?

Some things differently, maybe. But that's my story. I'm not telling everyone to follow what I did. And that's the misconception of people when they watch these stories or podcasts. They watch Mark Cuban. They watch the Ian Bixen. and they follow their journey and their blueprint. But Mark Cuban's a businessman.

Ian Bick is doing what Ian Bick does. When Nate Simpson does is completely different. And I'm going to find success in a completely different way than you might find success. And it's everyone's journey is so unique and different. And it's not the worst idea to emulate certain habits, like work ethic and, you know, drive and awareness and those attributes.

But don't just look at Jay-Z, the rapper, and look at, you know, Mark Cuban or Michael Rubin or Wallow, you know, any of these guys, it's like those are great people and they're very successful, but your success might not be my success. And everyone doesn't need a Bugatti. Everyone doesn't want a Bugatti. Some people are very much so content with working a 9-105 in paying their bills and coming home to their family

and living a comfortable life. Because you know that, like being in the situation you've been in the feds and being in the situation, dude, when you're making a lot of fucking money, people are coming to take your head off. You're the guy, you're next up. You're visible. You're outside. And if you're an idiot, you're, you're,

you'll fight back against the gun. But if I ever was in those situations, hey, have it, I'm going to get it back. If I could get it, I'm going to get it again. It's different. But I just am against, you know, feeling bad for myself, being accountable, being resilient, being ambitious, and understanding that people go through things

and adversity is important. Everyone needs adversity. If you don't go through adversity, you're not going to be the person you potentially could be. And I truly don't say that because it sounds good. I say that because I'm a product of that, understanding that it's sucked in the moment. looking back at all those times I just talked about that sounded cool. Sometimes that shit was

lonely and that shit was tough and I didn't know what the fuck was going to happen, but I put my head down and I kept showing up and you just got to keep showing up. And I was partly delusional, maybe a little arrogant, but I call arrogance confidence as long as it's honed in the right way. And everyone needs that arrogance. I think everyone needs arrogance to some degree. Everyone needs to be delusional to some degree and without it, you might not reach your highest potential. And that's cool Because, again, everyone's not meant to be, you know, Andrew Tate, Mark Cuban. And those guys are fucking great, great people. But it's about who you are and being comfortable and content with who you are and living your true self.

And that's ultimately, you know, what success is, I believe, and what happiness is. Because, you know, at the end of the day, we all have our own version. Yeah, everyone has their own purpose in life. My bad. I went on a little tangent. That was fun of it. That was good, man. But Nate, thank you for coming on the show today, man.

It was a pleasure meeting you and talking to you. I appreciate it. We'll plug in your book in the description for people to check out. Yep. And safe travels back to Mass. Thank you, man. I appreciate it.