Locked In with Ian Bick - Hells Angels Boss on Prison, Outlaw Life & Why He Left | George Christie

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

Ex-Hells Angels leader George Christie sits down with Ian Bick for an explosive, no-holds-barred interview. Christie reveals what it was really like to run the Ventura, California chapter of the Hells Angels for over 30 years — the violence, the brotherhood, the FBI investigations, and the moment he decided to walk away from the outlaw life for good. In this powerful conversation, George shares what life was like as a Hells Angels leader, the truth about outlaw biker culture, what it was like serving time in federal prison, why he left the club after three decades, and the lessons he learned about loyalty, betrayal, and redemption. #HellsAngels #OutlawBiker #GeorgeChristie #TrueCrimePodcast #PrisonStories #MotorcycleClub #OutlawLife #ianbick Thank you to PRIZEPICKS for sponsoring today's episode! Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/IANBICK and use code IANBICK and get $50 in lineups when you play your first $5 lineup! Connect with George Christie: https://www.georgechristie.com Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Use code LOCKEDIN for 20% OFF Wooooo Energy Buy Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction: George Christie's Story 00:26 From Hell's Angel to Whistleblower 01:57 Life After the Club & Writing Books 03:39 Handling Publicity & Law Enforcement Attention 04:56 Leaving the Hell's Angels & Setting the Record Straight 07:15 Early Life and Upbringing 10:09 Family Background and Immigrant Roots 12:13 Principles Learned from Family 16:03 Military Service and Department of Defense 17:15 Joining the Marines and Early Troubles 20:58 Motorcycle Culture in the 50s and 60s 23:18 Media, Public Image & Club Evolution 25:50 The Purge: Internal Club Conflicts 28:24 Rivalries, Outlaw Wars & Violence Explained 32:14 Becoming a Full Member: Hazing and Politics 34:48 Club Morals, Leadership & Changing Values 39:47 Race, Women & Shifting Club Rules 44:41 The Rise of George Christie as a Leader 48:44 Power, Local Influence & The Club's Brand 54:18 Challenges of Leadership & Internal Wars 01:00:20 Criminal Cases and Navigating Law Enforcement 01:13:06 Prison Life: Brotherhood & Leadership from Inside 01:20:00 Solitary Confinement and Club Changes 01:27:27 Technology, Social Media & Club Culture Shift 01:34:40 FBI Infiltration & Increased Paranoia 01:39:44 Corruption, Cops, and Surviving the Politics 01:42:24 Leaving the Club: Fallout, Bad Standing & Legacy 01:46:13 Regrets, Reflections & Club Violence 01:50:50 Life After the Hell's Angels & Found Family 01:56:14 Last Arrest & The End of an Era 02:02:42 Lessons Learned & Moving Forward Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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While I'm putting a murder contract on me. Guys came to Ventura to kill me. Tell us about your rise to becoming a leader. People say, well, what do you do when you're a prospect? Basically, you do any goddamn thing they ask you to do. Were you able to run the Hells Angels from prison? Warden told me, I know who you are because I know your leader of the Hells Angels. What was the world's perception of motorcycle clubs at the time?

If you had tattoos, you had to get a club tattoo within seven days. How dangerous was it truly to be a leader of the Hells Angels? Today's guest is George Christie. Once one of the most powerful leaders of the Hells Angels, now a man on a mission to expose the truth about outlaw biker culture. From decades inside the club to walking away from the life, George has lived through the power struggles, betrayals, and dangers most people only see in movies.

This is in Hollywood. It's real, raw, and straight from the man who's seen it all. George, welcome to Lockton. Well, it's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, thank you so much for having us. Well, thank you for considering me as a guest. It's not often you run into a fellow felon. Yeah, well, I appreciate you.

You invited us to your home out here, and we're set up right now at your office space where you record your stuff. I do. Yeah, this is it right here. Yeah, and I want to, at the top of this episode, plug in your website, tell people where they can get your book. You have three books. You're working on the fourth. You have a great YouTube channel. My fourth book's actually just completed crossing the Rubicon.

It's kind of my personal insight into leadership in the Hells Angels and the inner politics of the leadership of the Hells Angels. And then ultimately my decision to leave and, you know, why I left and why Sonny and I had that, you know, terrible battle for years. And you had a great Instagram, too, with all the old photos. It's so cool that you saved all the folks. photos. Well, you know, it's interesting people accused me of probably being self-centered. You know, where did you get all these photos of you? But the photos are from over the years. People took of me and sent to me. And it just happened to be in the media a lot. You know, I wound up, when Sunny got cancer, Irish and Irish O'Farrell, Oakland guy, former Los Angeles,

Hell's Angel with me. We became the spokespeople for the club. Sonny didn't want to talk anymore because had his voice box cut out and I got a lot of exposure, you know, and

unfortunately, Irish was killed in the late 80s, and Sonny went to jail and then it was kind of just me by myself. So, you know, I got a lot of not necessarily wanted publicity but I got a lot of attention not only from the public and the media

but law enforcement started focusing on me. Back then, did you ever think it would evolve into this like having a full second kind of act of life doing? I mean, I know social media was it a thing but just talking about it? Well, no. And, you know, I'll tell you really what prompted me to do it was Sunny made a lot of allegations that weren't true.

When I left, he went on a character assassination of me. In 2011, I went to the meeting, I said, look, I've had enough of you guys. We've become the people who rebelled against. I don't want to do this anymore. And turned in my patch, and I said, anybody's got anything to say, say it now, I'm leaving. I left in what we call good standing.

And within a couple of weeks, you know, Sonny started this character assassination of me, accused me of perhaps cooperating with law enforcement. You know, anything you can imagine, you know, I had done it one time or another, according to him. And I thought, you know what, I'm going to set the record straight. So I started recording ideas on things. You know, I started writing my books.

Went to prison, of course. I got died in 2011 immediately after I left. I think the Fed thought this is a great opportunity to get this guy on board with us, which I had no interest in doing. And, you know, they told me, well, you know, there's a murder contract on you. And I basically said, look, I'll take my chances on the street. guys. I got along this far by myself. I'm going to continue on my own. Went up going to prison in Texas and then while I was in Texas, the history channel started

contacting my daughter, who's kind of my attorney manager, whatever you want to call her. And I thought they were joking at first. They said, no, we want to do a six-episode series on your life and your perspective of the outlaw world, if you will. And it worked into something really good. Outlaw Chronicles, I'm surprised you haven't seen it, you know. You really should check it out. I think you'd enjoy it. Yeah, definitely.

And, you know, I was in prison for three years, so I didn't get a chance to watch. I'm still catching up on watching stuff. Sure, yeah. And you did Fed Time? I did. Yeah, three years. Yeah, I did. Twice. I did a year in 1986, 87, I was indicted for, they said I ordered a murder.

So I had murder for hire and conspiracy to commit murder. Beat that case, I took that all the way, beat it. Then again, in 2001, I was indicted a 59-count state racketeering charge, collapsed kind of under its own weight. It cost me a year on solitary confinement. that had me isolated from everybody at the Ventura County Jail. And then again, after I left the club, within weeks after I left the club, I was indicted in 2011, eight-count indictment.

The last three counts were mandatory minimums of life, which you're probably familiar with having been a federal target yourself. Where'd you grow up, George? I grew up here in Ventura. I was born here, grew up here. I spent a little time in Anaheim around Disneyland, Nottsbury, farm area, and then came back to Ventura. The ironic thing was I started getting in trouble a little bit down in Anaheim. I didn't happen to be with them one particular day, but the little crew I hang out with stole the car and were joy riding it, and everybody got arrested.

I was standing out in front of the house, actually, with my mom doing yard work. She made me stay home that day. And they had stolen the car and then drove by my house, tooting the horn, yelling and screaming my name. You know, they were in the car they had stolen. And they all wound up going to juvenile hall. My mom and dad decided we're going to get out of here. We're going to move him up to Camryo, California. Build is one of the safest cities in the United States.

And within that city, there was an Outlaw Motorcycle Club called the Question of that were friends and participants in the 1% world of the outlaw motorcycle clubs. And I kind of gravitated towards them. And I wound up riding as independent with, you know, I rode with the question marks, the saint's slaves, Monterey losers, and whatnot. And then ultimately I ran into the Hells Angels up in Kern River, and I became a Hells Angel. What did your parents do for work? Restaurant business.

My dad had three jobs. He was a truck driver, a bartender, or a chef. Probably walked off more jobs than he ever held. I mean, the guy would just quit at the drop of a hat, a very independent guy. He grew up kind of in poverty, poor. He passed out bottles, sample bottles of a new cleaning solution that was coming out on the market.

You may not recognize this name. You know, we were talking about, off-camera, about you being younger than me. But it was Mr. Clean. You ever seen the household a cleaner, Mr. Clean? With the guy holding the bottle? Yeah, the Blue Thing. Yeah. And he was passing out free bottles.

I remember that job because I went with him out walking around. He was putting the bottles on the doorsteps, $3 a day. You know, I mean, it just crazy times for me. You know, I, you know, but. What about your mom? My mom, stay-at-home mom, worked as a seamstress, make extra money for the house. You know, both full-blooded Greeks, my, all my grandparents came over at the turn of the century from Greece. My grandmother, interesting story.

She got on the boat. My grandfather came over the year before and set up. shop and whatnot, waited for my grandmother. They were betrothed to each other. They barely knew each other. She was 12 when she got on the boat. She got off the boat. 13, they got married and moved to Ventura. And he was a shoe repairman. Really old hardliner guy. We used to call him the governor because his word was final. And I remember my cousin and I went to borrow some money from him. We wanted to get two cherry coaks. Cokes were 10 cents. And then we would talk the guy into shooting some cherry juice in it. So we created the cherry Coke from the pharmacy on the corner.

And I remember us arguing, you ask him, no, you ask him, we were going to borrow $0.25 from him, $0.20 for him. And I don't remember, I think I'm the one that wound up asking him. I went in there on Papu's grandfather in Greek. I said, Papu, we need to talk to you. So he stopped. He was building some shoes or repairing some shoes. He stopped. And he said, what do you need? And I said, we want to borrow some money. And he got that stern look. He stared at us. Put down his mallet, you know, picked up his rag, wiped his hands off.

And he reached in his breast pocket and pulled out a little book, flipped it open. And he goes, I can't do it. He goes, you still owe me 25 cents. we had borrowed 25 cents from him weeks earlier. So, you know, that's kind of a traditional Greek family I grew up in. I was the only child, so our family was very small. And I don't know if my mom couldn't have any more kids. Something like, things like that you didn't discuss with your parents back in those days. You know, if another kid came, he came if he didn't.

It was just the way it happened. How would your parents have described you back in that time frame? When you were a young teenager, I know you said, you got into a little trouble, but if we had them here, what would they say? Georgie always had a mind of his own. I was known as Georgie. You know, my mother's name was Georgia. My father's name was George, so we dubbed ourselves the three Gs.

And, you know, just a very close-knit family. Like I said, you know, parents were in the restaurant business. They were always gone. of, I guess, what you'd call nowadays, or I don't even know if you call them that nowadays, but like a latch key kid kind of took care of myself. My parents worked six days a week, and then on the seventh day, they'd go to the restaurant and clean it, you know, and a lot of dough, you know, just struggling most of our lives. What were some principles they instilled in you as a kid?

Tell the truth. No cry babies. No ratting. you know it's kind of a Greek tradition you know we kept everything within the Greek culture if you will like the Greeks had a lot of clout here in Ventura they had a lot of restaurants a restaurant business all my aunts and uncles are in the restaurant business but they had a group that the men belonged to called the HEPA and the women had the daughters of Penelope and if there was a problem within the Greek culture they would kind of bring it there and

things out. I, you know, I remember that my grandfather, there's a guy that no education whatsoever, never went to school. I mean, never had a formal education in his life at all. My dad went to sixth grade, I think. But my grandfather worked at the repairing shoes, and I know I tried to talk him into teaching me the shoe repair business and really a profound, uh, really a profound statement from him was in the future, Georgie, people will throw their shoes away. They won't take them to a shoe repairment. And I just thought that was just ridiculous, you know. But, I mean, he had enough foresight to see that, you know, shoes had come and go, if you

will, you know, like, I don't know how he knew that. I don't know if it was a lucky guess or if he was that insightful. but, you know, my uncle, my grandfather's son, my mother's brother, wound up being a NASA scientist, a real smart guy. This episode is brought to you by prize picks. You and I make decisions every day, but on prize picks, being right can get you paid. Don't miss any of the excitement this season on prize picks, where it's good to be right. Football is rolling, and I'm back in the app building lineups,

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Download the app today and use code Ian Bick to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code Ian Bick to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, it's good to be right. Do you think those principles they instilled in you at a young age help your leadership ability when you would later become a leader? Well, I think so. I think that. I think the fact that they got up and they went to work every day, they didn't expect anything for free.

you know they came to this country as immigrants you know a different time i mean immigrants were welcome back then it's a whole different philosophy in today's modern world but they did it the right way came in through Ellis Island all became citizens uh I think that the particular moral code had a lot to do but I also attribute a lot of stuff to the Marine Corps you know I was a United States Marine from the Marine car. I got in trouble in the Marines and I made a, I was going to get court-martialed and I kind of got out of the court-martialed. I went to work for the Department of Defense and this was during the Cold War.

And at one time I took care of all the submarine surveillance systems. They were looking for Russian subs here in Southern California. On Santa Cruz Island they had something that looked like out of a James Bond move. where they would look for the foreign subs to come in and I had a direct line to Washington and my job was to keep that direct line up all the time I was a communications expert troubleshooter in case a decision had to be made you know do we shoot one of these I worked at Point Magoo in Port Wayneumby base point of goo was a downrange missile testing site they developed a lot of missiles there you know the

Vietnam was still kind of just winding down when I went to work for the Department of Defense. But, you know, I held that job for eight years, top-level security, and then they found out I was leader of the Los Angeles, Hells Angels. Oh, you were doing that while? Yeah, while I was a leader in the Hells Angeles. So did you join the Marines fresh out of high school? Did you finish high school? I joined when I was 17.

Okay. And I'll tell you what happened is I didn't get very good grades. I was dyslexic. I went, I got in trouble a lot. I was always being a smart ass. And I got called into the office and I got down there. My mom and dad were there, which really was kind of unusual. And I remember Bert Kilingsworth sitting behind his big desk

and accusing me of cheating on a standardized IQ test. And I apparently scored very high on it. And my grades didn't add up with my. my progress or whatever you want to call it answers on the IQ test and they thought I had the answer book and I had been I was confronted by them and they were trying to get my parents to convince me to turn the book over to them before it got out within the school and I said I didn't cheat I took the test fair and square and I was so mad and I thought to my So this is going to be polite society, how they deal with things.

I don't want any part of it. And I wanted to quit and join the Marines that night. And I made a deal with my dad and mom. I was 17 at the time. I joined the Marines, but the caveat was I had to finish high school. And so after graduation, I took off to Marine Corps boot camp. How do they feel about it, your parents? Well, I think they were worried.

You know, the Vietnam War was coming on. I belong to an actual Marine Rifle Reserve Unit, but they were always talking about activating us and sender us to Vietnam. And never happened. But, you know, I was in that unit for several years in probably almost five years, maybe five years. And I remember I was thinking that I remember I was a, I remember I was a, private and I had a hash mark on my uniform, a four-year membership of the unit. But, you know, they found out I was in a leadership position in the Hells Angeles. I don't think it would have mattered if I was a leader or a follower.

They would have asked me to resign. You know, they didn't want to, they were going to take away my top secret security clearance. What interested you in motorcycle clubs? That very first one you joined? Well, in the mid-50s, I was down in Los Angeles with my dad. and I was standing on the corner and a guy rode up on a chopped Harley. I don't know what club he was in. He had a Levi vest on.

Something was on the back. I don't remember what. It was probably 1955. And I just thought to myself, now there's a guy that I could identify with. And he was looking pretty cool. And the commotion he made without even doing anything. I mean, he really impacted people.

people. And I think I had some anger about that accusation that I cheated on that test. Because basically what they were saying is, you know, George, you did great on the test, but in reality, you're stupid. So how did you do it? You know, you had to have the book. So I think I was a prime Matt hit the series. Maddie Ice hit the series. Yeah, picked up the that. Well, were they talking to me? They were listening in. Everyone's listening. I have everyone's attention, so I'll continue.

So I just felt like that lifestyle was perfect for me. Like I said, I was getting in trouble in Anaheim. They moved up to the city of Camryo, the safest city, or one of the safest cities in the United States. and there was an outlaw motorcycle club there, just out in the outskirts of town. And I wound up, you know, jumping in with both feet. What was the world's perception of motorcycle clubs at the time? Well, you know, the Lynch report had just come out in 1965.

The Lynch report kind of came out in conjunction with the Hunter Thompson's Hells Angels. And, you know, I think they had a perception of us being rebels. outcasts, the movie, the Wild One with Marlestone and Lee Marvin had come out. And, you know, the Hollister event had taken place in 1948. And I think there was still aftermath of or fallout, whatever you want to call it, of these rebels running around on motorcycles. But, you know, the truth is, most of these guys were veterans coming home from the war in the late 40s.

They were either in the Pacific Theater or the European theater, probably suffering PTSD undiagnosed, and these guys didn't fit in. And, you know, they started gravitating towards motorcycles and starting these little bike clubs. And, you know, you had the booze fighters,

the pissed off bastards, 13 rebels, you know, a lot of different little clubs starting up. Back then, was anyone even throwing around the word gang and I know that's something you've been vocal on that you didn't look it as a gang no it wasn't a gang it was a motorcycle club

you know it was a club it was a riding club I mean did you see the movie the bike riders just see that movie you know you gotta give me a list when we leave here I think I gotta watch I'll give you a list of must sees but the bike riders very interesting

movie and it really shows the transition that the club itself and the members what I liked about it was the perspective of the members kind of going, what's happening to us? You know, because I went through that transition myself. I went through 1966. I kind of stepped into that world very cautiously.

I ultimately got into the club in the mid-70s, and that was a real tough time. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but a lot of people referred to it as the purge of the 70s. There was a lot of infighting in the club, a lot of unsolved murders attributed to what they called in-the-house cleaning. I think it started with, I usually use the reference point of Terry the Tramps, was given a hot shot.

And I don't know if you know who Terry the Tramp was. Terry the Tramp is a very famous, Hell's Angel. If you see, Hells Angel 69, kind of steals the show. And the rumor was that Sonny wasn't real happy with him. They were both in the movie together. Terry kind of stole the limelight and all these sunny supporters out there now are cussing at me. How dare you talk about sunny in that matter? But it's the truth.

I mean, you know, he had some problems with Terry. Terry got pushed out of the club and within weeks Terry was dead from a hot shot. You know what a hot shot is? No. Hot shot is when people intentionally give you some narcotics that will over. do you and he was given a hot shot and uh i know this for a fact because i know who gave him the hot shop because he told me he did it you know 1978 uh it's in my book outlaw riding through the storm you know that you know he gave uh terry a hot shot and there's another gentleman uh he

never admitted it to me but he's you know supposed to have been with him if you can read my book Are you going to read George Wegerne's, Weathern's book, Wehward Angels, I think. Are you familiar with the graveyard up in Northern California? They were dumping bodies in the wells? I heard of, yeah. Yeah. It all kind of stems around that particular time frame. But, you know, I lived through the purge of the 70s.

You know, we struck up a couple of wars. Not only was there internal conflicts in the Hells Angels. But we wound up fighting the outlaws, who's out in your neck of the woods, I think. We also were fighting with the pagans, although it was kind of a, we just didn't like each other. The outlaws thing was very serious. A lot of deaths. And then in 1977, the war with the Mongols broke out here in Southern California. And that changed the whole dynamics of the outlaw motorcycle culture.

It was a live and let live type world. You know, back in the early days, like in the 60s and 70s, you see another outlaw bike rider. You wanted to talk to him because there wasn't that many around. And you want to look at his bike. You want to talk to him. You want to find out what he did to his bike, what innovative ideas he's come up with.

It was cool, you know, to run into somebody. Nowadays, you run into somebody, you know, you wonder if you're going to get in a gunfight with him or not. You know, I, you know, I'm still riding and, you know, I'm out there. I'm meeting people all the time. And, you know, now as an independent, it's a whole different experience for me. But when I was an active member of a club, I mean, you know, you didn't know if you had a problem with these guys or they had a problem with you. Where do you think that hatred stem from with rival motorcycle clubs?

Well, I think a lot of goes back probably to primal instincts and DNA. You know, I think basically man is aggressive or an aggressive animal. And I think that outlaw, motorcyclists are a reflection of society. And, I mean, look at society in itself. I mean, today, who is that guy? I can't think he was his name. He was assassinated. the outspoken guys

Charlie Kirk today Charlie Kirk He was killed today And it You know When I heard he got shot I heard he got shot in the neck I mean I lost a member

That got shot in the neck You get shot in the neck I mean it's Probably not going to make it You know I just think there's a lot of A lot of opinionated people In the world

Today And they resort to violence It's kind of a instinct, I think. Do you think these rivalries could have been avoided? With other bike clubs? Yeah. Well, yeah, because when you go to prison, you know, I went to prison in 1986.

And when I went to prison, we were fighting the Mongols. We were fighting the outlaws, fighting the pagans. Our relationship with the banditos wasn't the best. And when I got down there was a senior member down there, a leader guy Castellione. I don't know if you've ever heard of him, a very serious guy. in there for killing two Mongols. He was doing time in the feds. And when I got there, I said, who do I have to look out for? Who's down here? And he laughed. He goes, we don't fight in prison. And I said, what do you mean we don't fight in prison? He goes, outlaw bike clubs don't fight in prison.

You know, we've got kind of an understanding. It's a neutral situation. And when I left there in 1987, like I said earlier, I beat that case. And when I came home, I thought, If we're not fighting in prison, why are we fighting on the streets? And I kind of pursued a path of peace, if you will. It's not very popular path in the outlaw motorcycle culture. You know, people perceive it as being weak. You know, they're always being tested by the bike clubs and within your own club at times. So it wasn't a popular position to have.

But I did have it and I pursued it for years. Was it hard to get patched in to go from that first motorcycle club to the Hells Angels? Well, I never was an official question mark. Later they made me an honorary member. Like, you know, I have a question mark patch hanging in my house. The St. Slaves, I became very close with them, misidentified by law enforcement as they thought I was a full-fledged saint-enslave member. And then ultimately prospecting for the Hells Angels and then being accepted,

Yeah, it was a long process. I mean, it, you know, it was a 10-year journey from stepping into that world as an independent and then becoming a Hells Angel. I mean, it certainly could have done it a lot faster. But, you know, I was out sort of making my mark, if you will. And I kind of came into the Hells Angels. I already kind of had a street reputation, if you will. What was the process once you joined?

Well, a process is jump in with both feet, you know. And, you know, people say, well, what do you do when you're a prospect? And basically you do any goddamn thing they ask you to do, you know. And people think that it ends once you, you know, you make member. But really, it's just kind of the beginning, you know. It's like studying martial arts. You know, you become a black belt. You know, people think, oh, he's a black belt now.

Well, when you become a black belt, you really just kind of learn in the trade. if you will. It's the same thing in the outlaw bike world. You become a member and you just kind of get your feet wet and learning the ins and outs. There's different routes and different things you can get involved in. You know, you can get involved in the party scene. You can get involved in the drag racing scene. Or you can get involved in the political scene and climate of the bike club you join.

And that's kind of what I did. I jumped in the political arena, very treacherous. and I found out real quick that it was a very permanent, you know, it was dangerous. What were the core principles of the Hells Angels? Well, initially it was a live and let live type of, you know, posture. But as the club evolved it, more and more rules, you know, were being instilled into people, and it became ridiculous. I think what in any type of organization you're in,

what you really need is a set of high morals, if you will, and people might think, outlaw biker with morals, you know, but yeah, you know, you have a code of a morality code and you stick by it.

You don't change it to suit your own needs. And, you know, I tell a lot of people, people ask me, they write me and go, what's the one piece of advice you'd give me as a leader in a bike club? Like,

you know, somebody becomes a leader in a bike club, they write me and they want to know my best advice. My best advice is don't let yourself become bigger than the position you hold. And I find that not only is that in the outlaw bike club, it's in politics, it's in corporations, you know, people become bigger than the position they hold in their own mind. And they lose sight and they may have a true north and they seem to get off compass over the years. I mean, you know, the prison is full of people.

that kind of got off kilter, if you will. And I'm certainly not, you know, I've done three present terms myself. I'm not judging anybody. I'm just saying that it's easy to get off course, if you will. You know, the spirit strong with the flesh is always weak. What were the requirements to being patched in? Like, were there certain people not accepted and certain traits?

Yeah, sure. A lot of people got run off. it's a tough world the outlaw bike world is a tough world you've got to think on your feet all the time you know you always hear oh they're a bunch of dumb bikers now there's some real smart guys

that are involved in motorcycle clubs and motorcycle politics you know you have to be kind of on your toes at all times it can be very treacherous it's very territorial you know people are

offended. You stop in somebody's another bike club's town to get gas. You know, they may be offended by it. It's a tough world. Why were certain race is not allowed in the Hells Angels? Well, you know,

it's interesting. That subject comes up all the time. And first of all, the Hells Angels took on the prison politics color line. And you come on out of prison. You know exactly what that

is I found it stronger in the state prison than the federal prison. I don't know. You've never been to state prison, but did you find it? Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th, the powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th, and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamava Theater.com, only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You in? Must be 21 to enter.

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where you have that cliche, you sit with your own kind. Like when I first got there, I went to the table with the whites. It's not because I was racist or anything. It's just because that's where you go. That's where you go. And people will say that's racist or this and that. And the reality is, but the reality of it is they're not in prison. And you don't have a choice.

Yeah. If I went and sat at a black table or a Spanish table. They go, what the fuck you're doing here? Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, I think that, you know, people want to say, oh, the hell's angels are a bunch of racist, you know. There were black members in this.

60s. You know, there was a black member in Sacramento. I think there was a black member in Frisco, and I believe there was a black member in San Bernardino one time. I know there was a black member in Canada for a while, and the prison color lines were very prevalent. You know, people started going to prison in the 60s, late 60s, and people came back, and they had that prison politics in their head and I never understood it until I went to prison in 1986 and I came back and I had a whole different perspective of how some of the guys that were coming back from prison were thinking. You know, it's a different mindset in prison. It's not the same as society, you know, in prison, if you, I'm going to give you an extreme example. In prison, if you

cutting somebody, cut in front of somebody in the chow line or the commissary line or whatever line, or whatever line, the phone line, you may wind up getting stabbed. And you can't get away with that in Vaughns if somebody cuts in line in front of you in Vaughn's. You don't get away with stabbing them. So there's different morality issues. I think that it's pretty self-explanatory.

I mean, you sink or swim as soon as you get there. And the dynamics of prison seem to be watered down a little bit. From when I went in 1986, it was the golden era of the federal system, if you will. You know, when I went to prison again in 2013, I went to Texas. I was in Terminal Island in the 80s. In 2013, I went to Texas, and it was overcrowded. The food sucked.

I mean, when I was in prison in 1986, I mean, on Saturdays and Sundays, it was eggs to order. You know, you can tell the cooks what you wanted. And, you know, it was a big salad bar, six or seven different types of drinks. You know, there was a lot of people probably saying, why are we feeding these criminals like that? And, you know, that's probably part of the reason the dynamics of things changed. I worked in the kosher kitchen, which was probably the best. I was the first non-Jew to work in the kitchen. Ultimately, I wound up being in charge because I knew the kosher cooking rules.

I grew up in a – my dad was in a restaurant business. grew up in a delicatessant, kosher delicatessent, so I knew what the kosher rules were. But that was a, you wanted to get on the kosher food line because the quality of the food. In 2014, the kosher dinners were frozen. They were eating them up in microwaves and giving them to the Jewish prisoners. Yeah, I remember guys in prison would sign up with the rabbi for that, because whenever there was a bad meal, they'd grab the frozen meal, which was a lot better than whatever they were serving. There were certain meals I would refuse to go to. They were just terrible. Yeah, I mean,

some of the meals, you know, I mean, you'd get, I remember the Terminal Island, you'd get two big giant pork chops, steaks, they would have seafood, they'd have sometimes four or five dressings for the salad. They had a salad bar. I had that too, and I was shocked. And there was dessert options, pudding, jello, and then the soda fowans, because I went from a detention center with nothing to this. Yeah, you went to where they had the machines. Yeah, like seven different dispensers, a milk dispenser. I was like, we just didn't have the eggs. They got rid of that by the time I was there in 2016. But I did hear stories that you could get eggs to order for breakfast. Yeah, you could. And some prisons have the bakeries, because I worked in the bakery.

Every Saturday and Sunday, they would do giant cinnamon rolls. And you can smell them on the prison yard, man. You knew it was Saturday morning because you wake up to the smell of the cinnamon rolls baking. You know, I mean, we had a theater. You go in there and get popcorn and watch a movie. A righteous theater, you know. I remember when I was the first non-Jew to work in the kosher kitchen, I had to go get okayed by the rabbi. And, I mean, the prison, the warden told me they were going to put me

in charge of the kosher prison in the kosher kitchen and he actually said i know who you are he goes i know your leader of the hell's angels and he goes do you think you can run 25 jews for me i mean you know it may sound racist but i mean that's they had a lot of trouble in the kosher kitchen because all the people were selling the meat it was all king david meat uh blessed by the rabbis uh You know, it was the top of the line food. And they were having a lot of theft in there. And I had to stop all that food thievery, if you will. What about women in the Hells Angels?

Well, there were women in the Hells Angels. Mother Ruth, Garbage Head. These are some of the gals back in the 60s. I'm going to blame that on Sonny. Sonny pushed a lot of the... Well, he pushed not a lot. He pushed them all out of the club. In the mid-60s, the club kind of went through a transition.

If you look on my Instagram, you'll see women, Hell's Angels, women with the Hells Angel patch on. Probably the most famous was Mother Ruth and probably Garbage Head. And Garbage Head actually had the small Deathhead tattooed on her back. I remember the saint and slaves were so bummed when they pushed the women out. I remember one of the Saints slaves told me how much he missed Garbage. which he had kind of a tear in his eye, if you will, talking about the old times. But Mother Ruth was the secretary of San Bernardino.

I mean, you know, there's notes. There's a guy out there that has, outlaw archives, has, I think, written minutes by her. I mean, she was a member. Why would they push the woman out? Why'd Sonny want the woman out? I don't know. You'd have to take that up with Sonny, but, you know, there's a lot of things. I don't know why Sonny did what he did.

but now all the Sunny supporters are mad at me again. I just had somebody write me really cavalier on I forget one of the platform YouTube maybe one or no when was I going to let Sunny rest in peace and my answer is never

he started a fight with me and it's not my fault he died that's on him now when you joined was he already the lawyer? Yeah he was a figure figurehead he was in prison but he was the voice of the hell's angels he had taken the hells angels taking the power from southern California from san bernadino changed the center patch to more something his liking that artistically had somebody designed for him he was a powerhouse

I mean he you know but he wasn't that sophisticated you know and old school guy perhaps didn't see the bigger picture. You know, there was a lot of things I wanted to do within the club. I felt that our patch was a very, very powerful brand. Hells Angels is one of the most recognized brands in the world. You know, now they're having problems with people in Europe selling patches, selling membership. I don't know if you're aware of all this stuff going on,

you know, in the old days, we used to joke. We didn't take people to court. Everything was settled out of court settlements, you know. Somebody was doing something with our patch or our name. You know, we'd send four or five guys over there and threaten to leave animal there if they didn't understand what we wanted them to cease and desist with. But, you know, things change.

You have to change. with the times, if you will, or you bend or you break. You have to bend a little bit sometimes. But I mean, the patch, all the intellectual property needs to be protected no matter what club you're in. But it's very difficult nowadays with the internet.

Where do you find these guys? You know, you've got somebody sets up a site and he's selling memberships. You know, there's four or five, six sites using my name. And, you know, people think they're conversing with me. I had some guy write me in and asked me, did I just buy your motorcycle? I go, no, you didn't buy my motorcycle. Apparently, he, you know, he bought a, put a $1,000 down payment on supposedly one of my motorcycles that was going to get sent to him, you know.

And people are understanding they realize that let the buyer beware. But I'm not responsible if they're foolish enough. to think they're buying a membership into the Hells Angels over the internet. I mean, come on, man. It's an Outlaw motorcycle club. You're not going to buy membership over the internet in the Mongols, the Outlaws, the Hells Angels, the Banditos, the Pagos, whatever club it may be. The Vagoes, you can't buy membership over the internet.

There's got to be people, though, at the time that were just wearing the brand, the patch. How would you prove that they weren't actually patched in? Well, you'd be surprised. people were very communicated really a lot. When I first got in the club, there was Hunter Thompson's book had just come out, Hell's Angels.

And on the cover of that book was a patch. Well, there was a guy Chuck the Duck, is what he called him. That was his club name, he said. And he was a fake. And we took the patch away from, beat him up and took the patch away

two times. from him. You know, oh man, John would send, I was one of the guys that went out looking for him. We had to find Chuck the Duck. And that's how we settled it. You know, we knew Chuck the Duck was not a member. I mean, because we knew everybody in California. As the club's gotten bigger, you know, I have people now write me and they tell me they're Hell's Angels. And my suspicion is they're not Hells Angels because, first of all, I'm out bad from the club and they're not allowed to interact with me. So, you know, when they write me, I say, you know you're breaking the rule right now by

writing me. And, you know, I met some Hells Angels in Spain. And they basically said they didn't take their orders from Sunny. You know, they took some pictures with me and talked to me. Were they real Hells Angels? They didn't have their patches on, but they claimed to be real Hells Angels. Where are they, I don't know. You know, it's hard to keep track of all that stuff.

but the club has an intricate email system or they keep track of people. Somebody's professing to be an El's Angel. They can get away with it, but only for a short envelope of time. Now, you were required to get a tattoo once you are officially patched in. Well, if you don't have any tattoos,

this is the way it worked back in the old days. If you had no tattoos, you didn't have to get a tattoo. If you had tattoos, you had to get a club tattoo within seven days. but that's probably a rule I've never even talked about on the air before so you're getting an exclusive on that and what would happen if you didn't get it well you'd get it they would do it one way or another yeah I mean they're gonna kick

the shit out of you and kick you out of the club I mean you know you work hard for that hell's angel patch if that's a rule you're you know you're gonna adhere to it so with a smile on your face why not make the guys with no tattoos get one then because somebody might want of, you know, be incognito. He may want to be able to move within circles that you may not be able to move in having a tattoo, Hell's Angel tattoo on you. You know, you could go somewhere and try to infiltrate somebody. You know, you'd be surprised that things got pretty sophisticated, especially with when we

had problems with other clubs. I mean, you know, people would move to somebody's town and, you know, we'd do a lot of counterintelligence work. Back then, there was a lot of, you know, guys that were ex-military in the club. I don't know, I don't know about nowadays how they proceed with things. And the world's different. I mean, you can find out who somebody is immediately. Like we were talking about, you know, you go, you're a new prisoner in the prison.

All you got to do is get the guy's name, information on him. You go over to the phone and call home and say, hey, look this guy up on the internet. Is he a child molester? Is he a rapist? Is he a drug dealer? You know, what's this guy's story? Why is he here? I mean, back in the old days, you know, people would play that,

oh, my paperwork isn't here, but I'm a bank robber. You know, their paperwork sometimes would never catch up with them. When you joined, did you know that there was like a violent criminal type aspect to these clubs? Or did that not exist in the beginning? Well, you know, it's interesting. The end of my new book, I'm pushing my book. I'm not doing it intentionally, but I'm speaking honestly. At the end of my book, I have this realization of, you know, where the club is and what they've become.

I'm not going to say it now, but in the mid-70s, like I was talking about the purge, I mean, when guys start getting clipped, you know, you start wondering, well, what's going on? You go to Harry the Horse's funeral up in San Francisco, and then you're watching the funeral on TV. At the end of the day, I'm in the Frisco Clubhouse, watching a funeral on TV, and then the announcer gets on there and says, well, law enforcement said Harry's murder was an in-house murder. And it makes you go, oh, I've ridden all night long to go pay my respect to Harry the Horse, the president of San Francisco.

and then there's suspicions that he crossed the wrong guy and, you know, somebody from the club killed him. I mean, stuff like that's kind of hard to take, you know, especially when you're instilled that it's a brotherhood and it's all about writing and whatnot. It's something you have to come to terms with. And you either come to terms with it and try to weave in and out through that culture or you walk away. I wasn't about to walk away. I mean, I got involved. This June, the world comes to Los Angeles. Kick off FIFA World Cup 2026 at the FIFA fan festival at the iconic Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

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Tell us about your rise to becoming a leader from when you joined. Oh man John was the president in Los Angeles. And old man John started having a beef with Sunny. And we started fighting the Mongols. And old man John stepped away and turned a charter over to a guy. named Ray Glor and Ray was not a leader and within months he was murdered another what they call in-house cleaning I went to John I said John you got to you got to get back involved in the political arena here you know the charter needs you Los

Angeles it was you know it was a big charter and we needed him needed his type of leadership and he said okay I'll do it with the caveat you're my vice president He goes, you're ready to do that. And that's kind of what launched my political career. And I started getting involved in the politics. Ultimately, John didn't want to attend the meetings, and I started making all the meetings. And I became the voice of Los Angeles, Hells Angels.

And one afternoon, old man, John told me, he goes, you know what, this is a young man's game. He goes, I'm stepping away, you take over. And, you know, probably by the end of 1977, I was Los Angeles, Hells Angel president. How old were you at that point? Late 20s. And you were still active with the Department of Defense.

I was. I was, they were flying me out to the islands, and I was working on all that secret communication stuff, and they found out that I was a leader in the Los Angeles, Hells Angels. And they said, it's either us or them, which was no decision for. They go, you're going to have them make a tough choice here. It was no tough choice at all for me.

I mean, I was completely immersed in the Hells Angels 100%. It's taking me 10 years to get there. I wasn't about to give it up. And I walked away from the Department of Defense. How are the other people in the club feeling about you working for the Department of Defense while you were rise in the ranks? Well, nobody really said anything. You know, later, I know after I left the club in, I think 2012 or 2013, Sonny said, If I don't he worked for the Department of Defense, he never would even got in the club,

which is ridiculous. I mean, you know, what the hell is that got to do with anything? It should have enhanced my ability to lead, you know, having worked for the Department of Defense and understanding the politics, if you will, of conflict. Anyways, I'm being a smart ass now. What did your parents think about you joining the motorcycle club? and working your way up and leaving the military? Well, mixed emotions about it, but, you know, they were 100% on board.

My mom and dad, I introduced something new. I write about it in this new book. Start having meals at the runs. This was something that I introduced. And my dad was a former CB mess cook, you know, cooked for thousands of guys. So cooking for three or four hundred, Hells Angels was nothing for him. And, you know, he wound up cooking meals for us and coming to the runs. And my parents became participants, if you will, in a sense.

Now, once you became a leader, what's the day to day look like when you're the active? Well, as I got deeper and deeper into the politics, my whole world and my whole life was based around the Hell's Angels. You know, when the war broke out with the Mongols, it was very, very. I was away a lot, worried about my family. I mean, we were on a like a full-scale war. I mean, people were getting blown up, people were getting shot. We didn't have any casualties in the Hells Angels until the early 80s. Fat Ray was killed by the Mongols

in San Diego, that was really our first casualty. But, you know, like the first six months of the war, there was like six murders within six months. I mean, it was bombings in Southern California, in California, machine gunnings, people get machine gun it off their bikes. And, you know, these were not the Hells Angels, these are, you know, the Mongols. But it was tense, you know, couldn't go anywhere without getting stopped by the cops, harassed by the cops, photographed by the cops.

It, you know, I'm sure you've experienced a lot of scrutiny. You know what it's like when they're scrutinizing you. They're going through everything and anything they can get their hands on. Anything they think is some sort of evidence or support for their theories or allegations or whatever they may be. You know, we had in 1979, we had that Robert Mueller, who went after Trump, you know, he was the U.S. attorney in San Francisco on the RICO case. and they failed twice and ultimately he said we're not going to retry these guys and that may have been because

we didn't have a central leader sunny was certainly a de facto leader I became a de facto leader when Sunny went to prison but as far as an official leader we didn't have one and I think it worked to our advantage in the courtroom

I think on the streets it worked perhaps as a disadvantage because, you know, you go to talk to Taco from the leader of the outlaws who has the ultimate say. And, you know, you go there and you negotiate something. And then Taco goes, okay, let's do it. Shake hands. You go, well, Taco, I got to take it back. And then I would have to go through like almost a 90-day process of presenting it, waiting for an answer onto whether the club approved of it or not. I wound up innovating like phone calls.

You know, we would, I'd bring something up in the meeting and by Wednesday we had to have a vote throughout the United States so I could get back to whoever it may be Taco or George Weggeren, George Weggers from the Banditos, you know, a Mongol, little Davy or whoever it may be, you know, okay, this is our position as a club. you know, the leadership responsibility. I mean, it's tough because being a peacemaker, you're trying to make peace. A lot of people think peace is a sign of weakness. And, you know, it's like these wars that they have no political agenda. I mean, they're just wars for the, you know,

just to fight. They're like a train with no destination, you know. And it just didn't seem prudent to me. It just didn't seem smart to me. you know, why would you fight a club, just for the sake of fighting the club? Certainly, we had issues, and it was time to resolve the issues. There were people in both clubs that had no idea why we were fighting. You could ask people.

I'd ask people in the meetings. That was part of my sales pitch, if you will. I'd say, you know, who in here knows why the outlaws and the hells angels are fighting. And, you know, not that many people remembered. When these wars broke out, did you ever start to think? think this isn't what I signed out for? Like I came here to ride. Sure. Yeah. I mean, of course, I signed up to ride and party and have fun. But I'm also loyal and dedicated. And, you know, it's thought, do I walk away or do I, and I think it goes back to my culture, you know,

do I walk away or do I try to resolve it? And, you know, I'm a guy that, if I have a problem with somebody, I try to resolve it. And that's what I did. You know, we had a problem with the Mongols. Let's resolve it. We had a problem with the outlaws. Let's resolve it. We had a problem with the banditos in Europe. Let's resolve it. And, you know, that was my motivation and that was my end goal. I think I, you know, it was somewhat successful in the 90s had negotiated a ceasefire or amnesty on violence with the outlaws, the Mongols, the banditos. Never had much luck with the pagans. but did talk to the pagans a few times and the talks seemed receptive and great. It was like Sunny had some sort of personal trip with the pagans.

Him and Lou, the guy that started the pagans, I don't know something that we didn't know about or behind closed doors. But, you know, we had a good run for all through the 90s, you know. And then it kind of blew up again. And at the end of the 90s, Talk would put a hit on me. to have me murdered. That became public during one of the Outlaw Raccoatian trials, RICO trials. And then we had the shootout in Laughlin with the Mongols.

We'd had pretty much a live-and-let-live attitude. You know, the idea was you go into a gas station and the outlaws were there. We stay on our side of the pumps. They stay on their side. Same thing with the Mongols, same thing with the Banditos. But I don't know what happened. I was not allowed to go. I was on high control probation from that state racquetarian case.

They wouldn't let me go to Laughlin. You can see the video footage of it. A bunch of Hells Angels went down to Harrah's because the police told the Hells Angels standing out in front of the Flamingo. Your brothers are down at Harris and they're outnumbered. You know, 100. There's only 30 of you guys down there. or whatever, six of you guys.

Six of you guys, that's what they said. And everybody jumps on their bikes and went down there. And, you know, one thing led to another. And have you seen the footage in the fight? You know, it's, you can see Cal methodically shooting at people on the surveillance video. But it, you know, all hell broke loose. And from there, I slowly saw it unwind. And like I said, in 2011, I was, you know,

the night I quit the club, I went to the meeting and said, we're fighting wars, we're fighting the outlaws, the Mongols, the banditos, and I go, now you want us to pick a fight with the Vagos. They were pushing on, young guys were pushing on the Vagos. And, you know, they got a good member killed. Jethro, the president of San Jose, got killed in a bar or a casino in Reno, because people were pushing on the Vagos. And, you know, I've known the Vago since the 60s.

I know these guys were not going to be. pushed on. But, you know, they didn't heed my words. I also said historically, if you read your history, when you run out of opponents to fight, we're running out of opponents, I go, you turn inwards. And at Jethro's funeral, two Hells Angels got in a fight, and one Hells Angel pulled a gun out and killed another Hells Angel in front of five, six, seven thousand people, you know, at the funeral. So things were unraveling. I've lost focus on what I was saying, but I covered a lot of ground fast. But, you know, I didn't sign up for the war.

I signed up to ride. I signed up to party, and I signed up to have a good time. And I was hoping at some point in time we could get back to that. But by 2011, I decided I don't think it's going to happen. Now, as being a president a paid position, how are you making income at that? Now you sound like my mom. My mom asked me that. It was in the, and I'm not saying to ask my mom.

But there was an article in Los Angeles Times that said that I received the same payment the president received in the United States. And I don't know where they came up with that figure or where they came up with that posture. But I said, no, mom, I don't receive any special salary from being a Hell's Angel. No, you don't get anything. In fact, you probably wind up losing money. Everybody wants to borrow money from you. You end up paying for a lot of stuff on the road. But I didn't mind.

It was promoting the club, pushing the club forward. I made a lot of money, I think, from the position I held and the publicity I received. I had a tattoo shop, had a concert promotion business, had a bail bonds company. I had a t-shirt company. I was administrator for my daughter's law office. I had my fingers in a lot of pies. Tell us about the power that comes with being the president of a club like the Hells Angels. Well, it wills a lot of power.

I think if you read on the Internet, if you can believe anything the Internet says, but it claims I was the most powerful political person in Ventura. at one time. I had more power than anybody in the town. And we did run the town. Hells Angels Ventura ran Ventura with an iron fist. So, you know, you get a lot of cachet, if you will. My tattoo business was incredible. And, you know, there was a rumor that, and it got me in trouble ultimately, but there was a rumor no one else could have a tattoo shop in Ventura. Did I put that, you know, saying out there? No, but people

created it in their own minds. Did I dispel it? No, I never said a word about it. People would ask me, they'd come to, you know, talk to me about, I want to set up a tattoo shop and I wouldn't talk to them about it.

I would just, I'd refuse to converse about it, which probably, you know, alluded to the rumors, maybe, I don't know. But there's a lot of power that comes with that position. When you're in the media a lot, I was in the media all the time.

And, you know, people hear you're a powerful person, and they read about it, they start thinking you are. You know, perception perceived, perception achieved, if you will. I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's, you know, the world is going through a transition. I mean, we've got a president now that's, how many felonies does he have? 34 felonies or you know I don't want to get into talking politics but

the whole world is it's different it's a different world we live in I mean think back about the 60s and where I started and you know you mentioned that earlier and where we're at now I mean it's been a long

as my old friend Jerry Garcia would say it's been a long strange trip It really, really has. What do you think was the most dangerous position you've ever been in as a Hells Angels member? At the end of my tenure, one of my members got murdered. And then when Sonny's men got murdered. And, of course, the rumor on the street was Sunny murdered my guy, and it was tit for tat. and I'm not embracing anything that was said.

That was just rumors on the street. But I think at that point in time, it was probably the most dangerous time. Josh, a young member from Interior, got killed. Sonny's right-hand man, Hoover got killed. It was tough times. Sunny and I were fighting. You know, Sunny thought the club belonged to him.

My position was I belonged to the club, and I was there to serve the club. And I think that that comes from serving the Marine Corps and then serving the Department of Defense. You know, they were in charge. I worked for them. I was a representative of them. Sonny really had the, it's my ball, and I'm going to run with it, attitude. And does that make him a bad guy? No, just part of his personality and composition.

I mean, he was a, he was, he was. tenacious guy. Tell us about that first criminal case against you as as the actual leader. Well, in 1984, the ATF started spreading rumors that we were going to supply weapons to terrorists. And they really concerned me. I went to the O.M. I said, hey, look, man, this is the rumor. I said, we got to get in front of this. We much control the narrative on this. I go, we need to support the Olympics. And what I'd like to do is find a way for us to do that. And Tiny from SFV and I came up with the idea that we can run a kilometer in the Olympic torch relay. We did that.

Once we were accepted, I became very vocal. I said, not only are those rumors false. I said, but we're going to participate by showing, we're going to show our support by participating. And it just kind of took off like wildfire. You know, it was like a man bites dog story. And it was all over the media. The ATF got really pissed off about it.

The feds got pissed off about it. And the next thing I knew, I was in an elaborate scheme to murder somebody that was an informant. And it wasn't my idea. It was the Fed's idea. And who was the, it was someone that was an informant. Tom Cheney was a former hangaround.

And there was a Mexican mafia. I was friends with the Mexican mafia. Mike Eisen and I, one of the top guys, top tier guys in the Mexican mafia at that time, were buddies. And I think they decided, hey, we'll use the Mexican mafia

to get Christie in this. conspiracy. So one of the Mexican mafia guys that was actually working as an FBI informant as well came to me and said they were going to kill somebody and they were going to kill this Tom Cheney who had been associate of the Hells Angels. What they wanted was you either pay us $10,000 or we're going to assassinate this guy. And I basically told him, I go, well, kill him. If you don't like him. He owes you money. I go, I'm not paying $10,000 to you.

And so they staged this murder in a prison in Arizona. They acted like they killed him and took him out in a hearse and tried to get me to basically talk about it. I never did talk about the

aftermath of the murder. But I got arrested. Spent a year in federal prison in Terminal Island and took it all the way to the box, as they say. So they sent this undercover to try to get you to do a murder for hire, or they wanted you to a green light the murders. We probably had 19 conversations. They only recorded two of them. They said that the other 17 conversations, the tape recorder wasn't working, the, you know, the surveillance stuff they had on. And what they did is they kept coming back, coming back,

come back till I got enough incriminating stuff on two tapes. You know, I took the stand in my own defense. And, you know, I told the jury, I said, perhaps I committed a moral crime by not calling the police. But I go, the guy was a pimp and a drug dealer. What the hell did I care? And apparently the jurors agreed with me rather than the government. They actually sent a note out to the judge

They wanted to know They had gone so far outside the guidelines They wanted to know if they could Punish the FBI in any way But the murder was a fake It was a fake. There was never no murder But they presented it initially in the beginning As a murder

So they charged you for murder But it was a fake murder It was a fake murder That seems a little Yeah they were reaching So if you were proven not guilty Why did you still go to prison that first time? Well, because I had no bail.

I was in prison for a year. Oh, they gave you no bail. That's when they first started the no bail stuff. They don't do that too much anymore. Pretty much like this last, my last case in 2011, my bail was, I was shot, it was only $250,000. My bail for the racketeering, I had to put up $2.4 million to get out. Now, I know people are very curious about this.

You spend a year in prison, you get proven not guilty. Are you given money? Like, what happens? You're giving your freedom back. But isn't that crazy? It is crazy. You know, it's interesting. When Judge Wu sentenced me, my daughter was arguing, and my daughter said, you know,

he spent two years on house arrest. And now the government wants to give him. three years and he goes, you want to send him to Texas for a year. So that would add up to three years. So the government got, in essence, they got what they wanted. And I was being a smart ass. I told the judge, I said, can I get credit for that year in 1987? Judge Wu was, he's a really interesting federal judge.

He just laughed at me. You know, he was interesting. He gave the U.S. attorney a lecture. the day, he basically kind of threw his hands up. And he said, this case is not what you want it to be, Mr. U.S. attorney. He goes, you've, you want this to be your career building case. And he goes, but you don't have the evidence. He goes, I know what you want.

And he goes, you're just going to have to come to terms with it. And I was sitting there really smug at the defense table. And he looked at me. And he goes, and you, Mr. Christie, God only knows what you've gotten away with the last 40 years. He goes, I'd take this year in Texas and run with it. So I wound up going to Texas for a year. We tried to get a house arrest.

No way he was going to give it to me. I'm trying to think how he described it. This is an in-custody resolution. He goes, you have to go in custody. So I wound up going to Texas for a year. Now, that first year in prison in the 80s, what was that like, especially as a leader of a Hells Angels motorcycle club. Like, you know, a king.

I was treated like a king. All the different groups that ran the prison, you know, and you're familiar with that. They all treat me like a king. Once I got in there, got situated at best living conditions, you know, I wound up being the head of the kosher kitchen. I was friends with everybody. You know, you have all the little different factions.

in there. I was friends with them all. Who do you ride with? Because is there an actual like Hells Angels faction in there at that time? Well, you ride kind of with the bikers, you know, identified with the bikers. You know how you say, well, I'm, you know, I'm sitting at the white table. I said it was a white table, but it was in Texas, but it was for bikers.

In Turtle Island, the Hells Angels and kind of, that's where I met Michael Frenchese and, you know, Rosario, Gambes. I hung out with a lot of mafia guys in there. Oh, you're actually in prison with Michael? Yeah, Michael and I were in prison together. In the 80s? Yeah, 86 and that 87 we were in prison together. He had just stolen like $10 billion with that gas scam.

Rosario Gambino, are you familiar with a pizza connection? It's a big mafia case. He was doing 40 years. and it was a bunch of smaller criminal figure. Sam Serentino, who was head of the underboss. He was underboss of the L.A. mob, who I had had a previous encounter with when the jingles and red beard,

the two Mongols got killed in 1977 at their funeral, at a double funeral. And at their funeral, there was an explosion. Sam Serentino called the Hells Angels Clubhouse in Los Angeles. And he's the L.A. under Boston. He said, really, George, at a funeral? And, you know, I said, I don't know anything about that explosion at the funeral. But it, hot and heavy crazy times, you know.

But it was like, it was really the golden air. of you know we had tennis courts in there uh i think there was the guys were even had a putting green uh the the weight room was incredible you know i mean uh every weight type of weight machine and free weight you could think of heavy bags uh like i said there was a theater uh all types of recreational things uh it uh it was it really was a golden uh age for prisons. I know Slave Louis was a Hells Angel from San Fernando Valley. He's been a former, he's kind of a legend in the Al Law Bike World. He was in there. He's having trouble with his wife.

He went to the warden and said, I need to go home and straighten some shit out at my house. He goes, you let me go home. I promise to come back. I'll be back here within 24 hours. and the war and actually let him leave he went home and handled his shit and came back

and I mean that ain't happening nowadays so now you said all the motorcycle club guys kind of stick together in prison even rivals how would that work

yeah well we just didn't fight with them so you put your differences aside and our differences aside that's why he came out of there with the thought that we could end these conflicts that's so silly when you think about it

ending the conflicts or fighting no fighting if you're able to put Yeah, if you're able to put your differences aside in prison? Yeah, I mean, it made no sense. That's what I came home. I go, why are we fighting on the street, but in prison, we're getting along. I go, let's do it on the street, too.

I go, this is not productive. And I don't want to see any more Hells Angels, outlaws, banditos, Mongols, or whatever they may be. I don't want to see these guys get in trouble. Let's end these wars. And it wasn't a very popular position. Were you able to run the Hells Angels from prison? Or how does that work when you're in prison? Well, my charter, but, you know, each Hells Angel charter is pretty much autonomous.

You know, that's why the feds have never been successful with their racketeering charges. So when you get out of prison after that year, what happens? Do you just resume your position right away? I came back. I resumed my position. There was a couple of guys that had created some problems for me. I got rid of those guys. and solidified my leadership position again and move forward.

That was 1987. I came back. I didn't have another beef until 2001. Now, when you're facing a case like that, do a lot of people in the club count you out and think that's an unbeatable case and you're going down and then they start to make arrangements and push you out? A lot of people do.

And, you know, traditionally the way it worked was somebody got indicted and they were in a leadership position. They usually stayed in that position until the case was concluded. That way you don't have the government pretty much controlling the political direction of the Hells Angels or any bike club for that matter. You know, every time you indict it somebody, they had to step down from that position. I mean, you basically have law enforcement controlling the politics of the club. So, like I remained leader of the club, came back, I was still in leadership position.

The same thing in 2001. I was fighting that case. I remained leader of the club. And when I came back in 2002, I just stepped right back into that leadership position. In 2011, if I had made a deal and taken a plea bargain and gone to jail, I would have step down from that position. Certainly would have tried to retain it when I came back. You know, Guy Cassidy alone, I mentioned him earlier, you know, he went to prison two or three times. He was the San Diego leader, a very powerful guy. And any time he went to prison, he stepped

down. When he returned, he regained control of, you know, his leadership position. So tell us about that case in 2001. Well, there was a Navy airman, excuse me, an Air Force airmen that stole like a million Vicodin from an Air Force base and they wound up in the possession of my son, Little George, and some other Hells Angels and pretty much control in the Vicodon market here in least Ventura County, perhaps Southern California. And they indicted like 30 guys. They tried to drag me into it and they just didn't have the evidence. And, you know, they charged me with 59 counts.

And basically the counts collapsed, you know, the indictment. It collapsed under its own weight. They put so much emphasis on all these little petty charges that it just didn't look like they had the goods to take me to court and win. and they brought in a new lawyer from Los Angeles, Los Angeles area, to try the case. They didn't have any, they wouldn't want to admit it, but they didn't have any lawyers with the ability to try a case like that. They brought a guy in, and the guy started looking at the case, and he's the one that basically ended the case. He goes, you guys can't win this case. Because you've got informants that, you know, they're counterticting themselves.

I think you need to offer the guy a deal. And that was the deal they offered. Drop all the charges. I plead on a conspiracy to steal Vicodin out of the Air Force base and a tax charge. They said I owed $200,000 in back taxes. And, you know, I pled no low contender, so I would get an audit. And at the end of the audit, I owed $1,100. And this was a state charge for this?

charge, state racketing. And you ended up serving time for this? I stayed in a year and I got time served and they ended the case. They dropped all the other charges. Were you treated differently in state prison as a health insurance? I was in solitary confinement the whole time. Why'd they put you in solitary? Well, they said they didn't want me trying to control the prison population in there. I had a lot of sway and kind of was at the height of my power, if you will. And they put me in solitary confinement. I wound up getting in trouble in solitaire, going on the disciplinary diet where, you know, the famous loaf, you live off that loaf that gives you just enough calories and carbs to sustain you. It's against a law now.

They don't do it in the California system anymore. What do you do to get in trouble? This is really ridiculous. I have a bridge in my lower teeth. and I took a chicken bone, filed it down so I could have a toothpick to clean my bridge. And they found the toothpick, the chicken bone. And they accused me that I possibly was going to try to put the eye out of one of the sheriffs as they served me my meal. Did you think about doing that?

No. It was ludicrous. You know, and so I'm, you know, you have a trial. They had a little trial. A hearing, yeah. Yeah, within the department. You know what I'm talking about. And at the trial, I was supplied a pencil and a piece of paper.

And I told the lieutenant, I said, well, you know, if I was going to put your eye out, I think I'd rather use this pencil than that chicken bone. And he didn't find the sarcasm funny, you know, but I wound up. I forget how long. I lost all my visits, all my phone calls. Didn't receive any mail. I don't think I received any mail. And put me on the disciplinary diet.

You eat twice a day. You get bread, water, and the meatloaf. Was that year in solitary the farthest you've been removed from your position? Yeah. I also had a protective order, so I couldn't talk to anybody. and yeah I was very isolated you know you mentioned you'd done time in solitary it's you know it's sensory deprivation I mean you know you're not around anybody around anything I don't know where you did your solitary at but you know I was kind of like in an underground place

lights never off freezing cold and their air conditioning on all the time and it it wasn't easy It was difficult. I think about these guys that do 30 years, 20 years in solitary. It's got to be devastating on their mental ability and their physical body. Did the club change a lot for that year that you were removed? And, you know, after I left the club, I did a stage play. And one of the lines in the stage play, I talk about the twin towers falling. And when I came home, I felt like the brotherhood had in the club had.

fallen as well. It felt like a different club. You know, I stuck around another decade, tried to interact with people, try to get things what I felt back on direction, but I just wasn't successful. I was successful in Ventura, but not in the club at large, if you will. What do you think was the biggest catalyst for it shifting in that year you're gone? I think we were in a new century. I think the world was changing, the Internet. You know, I had things were changing dramatically. You know, I know when I talked about this earlier, when Peewee got removed from the club, he was out in bad standing.

Facebook and these different things were just social media. were just becoming available to people. And I had been friends with Peewee on Facebook, and I got in a big argument with Flash from Oakland. He wanted me to defend Peewee because he was no longer in the club. I just found that the most, and I still, to this day, think that's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of. Here you've got a group of what's supposed to be

the toughest and baddest outlaw motorcycle club in the world. and they're arguing about whether you can be friends with somebody on Facebook. I mean, it was actually in the officer's minutes. I mean, it was ridiculous. And basically, I just thought, man, not only was the world changing, the Hells Angels was changing. And I kind of wanted to get back to the basics. You know, like I stated before, we had become the people who were rebelled against.

Now, you mentioned that there was multiple hits put out on you as you were a leader. How dangerous was it truly to be? a leader of the Hells Angels? Well, I mean, I think it was dangerous. You know, Taco Bowman and I, a leader of the outlaws, tried to negotiate peace. He received a lot of flack from a guy, Spike O'Neill. He was an upcoming guy in the outlaws.

Taco succumbed to the pressure. I mean, he wound up putting a murder contract. on me. Guys came to Ventura to kill me. Police had to tell me, you know, the police came to me and said, we have a moral and legal obligation to tell you that was a legitimate attempt on your life. And this is what transpired. Apparently, you know, they didn't come just once, but I was told they came twice. First one was a recon, and then the second time they were there to do something. They had a gun. I think I got caught with a gun and a map and pictures of me. I was kind of of pissed off about it because I had been negotiating with Taco in the middle of these negotiations,

you know, there's a murder contract on me. So I took offense to that. And I made a trip back to Chicago and went to a meeting and basically told them if they came back to town without notifying me ever again that it would be severe retribution and threatened them said I would kill them whoever came I would kill them I would kill the wife I would kill the children I would kill the dog I would kill the cat and on the way out I would overfeed the fish I think they got the point I was really upset I'm you know I've said that before in public and you know people who said that's ridiculous how could you go after somebody's family well you know they had a map to my house they were coming to my house and i'm not sure uh they were going to

distinguish uh who i was or who uh was laying next to me or sleeping in the next room over so yeah that was a real attempt i understood the mongles were after me uh i never felt threatened by the banditos I had a good relationship with them. George Weggers and I, the international leader of the banditos, became very good friends. We became very close when we were negotiating a piece

for the Nordic Bike War. Are you familiar with the Nordic Bike War? In the Scandinavian countries, it was a full-on war over there between the Hells Angels and the Banditos. George Weggers and myself tried to keep it from bleeding into the United States, wound up getting special visas for a bandito leader and a

Hell's Angel leader to come into the United States. They were both banned from the United States. The Hells Angel had committed a double murder, and he had just returned from prison, but he had a lot of clout. He was very powerful. And the bandito leader, I don't know what his crime was, but I know he was a felon. And the Scandinavian government petition the American government for special visas to come in so George Weggers and I can negotiate with the European counterparts to hopefully resolve the war and put an end to it. When there's wars with rival clubs, are there things that are off limits like women, children, family members? Well, you know, you'd like to think that's so, but, you know, the banditos shot a rocket into. the one of the Hells Angels club houses in Denmark and a woman got killed you know so you know

collateral damage you know is collateral damage you know you have no control of it and I know when the war in 77 started with the Mongols in California that was one of the things I professed everybody you know I just come out of the Marines I worked for the Department of Defense These guys want to start placing bombs all over Southern California. And I said, what about the collateral damage? Well, you know, there were actual members that didn't know what collateral damage was. And I wound up, I made such a stink about it. Some of the members weren't quite sure where I was coming from.

They had planted a bomb at a Mongol bike shop, and it didn't go off. And my job was to go retrieve it because I had opposed bombing to begin with. Old Man John sent me there to prove that I was loyal and that I was also dedicated to the club. So I went to remove the bomb and we had a place in town we called the Armory. We had 2,000 pounds of dynamite in there. We had an anti-tank gun, British anti-tank rifle, recoil rifle. A lathe, we had a bunch of silencers, we had machine guns. It was like an armory.

And I had to go retrieve that live bomb and then take it back to the armory and place it with the rest of the dynamite that was still in our control. Now in the 2000s, the early 2000s, is that when there would be more infiltrations from like undercover ATF and like the stories we would hear from these agents in present time? Yeah, that's really the end of the 90s. I think the Mongols had been infiltrated, the Vagoes had been infiltrated, and we had a guy called Jay Dobbins. He was an ATF agent. Do you know Jay? Yeah, I watched this podcast on Johnny's. Yeah, you should interview Jay.

I think we have it lined up, yeah, for later this year. Jay came and infiltrate the Arizona Hells Angels. You know, he was embraced by Sonny. That was the second time Sonny had to embrace him, but he'd also embraced Tony Tate in the 80s. And wound up going to jail for five years because of, he conspired with Tony to blow up the outlaws. But it was a whole new ball game.

You know, you had these ATF, these balzy ATF agents, I mean, coming and infiltrating. I mean, the bottom line is if they would have been discovered as agents, they probably would have been killed, you know. And it created a lot of paranoia, a lot of distrust. Even a lot of the cases weren't real strong. Just the mere fact that they infiltrated, and people were just really upset that who do you trust,

who you do not trust? I mean, it was a very paranoid time. How would you guys start to test for undercovers once these cases started to get exposed that there were undercovers working there? How would we expose them? Yeah, well, how would you test that going forward? Like, say, the Jay thing popped up. Well, you know, here's the thing. You know, I never bought him.

And Jay and I, I interviewed Jay myself. Jay and I are on friendly terms. You know, he did his job. I did mine. You know, my attitude always was, I expected these guys to come after us, you know. I didn't have any animosity towards any law enforcement or judges or district attorneys, U.S. attorneys. I just figured that was their job and they're coming after us.

Jay circulated a photograph of what he called a Mongol murder. Are you familiar with that? They staged a murder, and Jay took a picture of it and circulated it to the club. my posture and my position was who kills somebody and takes a picture of them and I told them when they presented me with the picture to show me I said I don't want to see it I don't want to know anything about it and I go come on man have you ever killed anybody and taken a picture and then presented it to your friends come on man I didn't buy into it I thought but a lot of people did I mean I thought it was over the top I thought it was wrong

I thought it was a mistake to do it. But apparently a lot of people were impressed by it. So what did you guys start to do to take precautions after? Well, you know, back to round checks. Some of the guys I understood, we never did it in Ventura, a light detector test. I found the sharpest way to do things was to make sure you can trace their history within the community,

how far back you could go, interact with their parents, see if they introduce you to their parents, their family members, and perhaps ask them to participate in something that was less than legal and see if they were committed or not. Would you ever expose any? Did you ever find any along the way after that? No, but, you know, my suspicions of people that flipped, turned out to be true. There were several guys in the club that, you know,

you saw a definite issue with them. And, you know, one of the things I used to do is we had like a high-powered attorney in Los Angeles. And if it was a real serious case, we'd offer to pay for their legal fees. And, you know, the lawyer would certainly alert me if they were going to make a deal with law enforcement. The other thing was when my daughter became a lawyer,

you know, I'd offer services free. If somebody declined, it made me very suspicious. I mean, who doesn't want a free lawyer, especially when they're good and, you know, they've been effective, you know, little telltale signs like that. How many corrupt officials were you working with cops, judges, anything like that? There was a whole time I was in the club, There was one judge in Cleveland that was on the take.

He got caught. It was Operation Grey Lord, and he got caught with his stupidity. He went up to an ATF agent that was trying to look like a Hells Angel hang around, and the judges complained, they didn't pay him enough on the last case he fixed. And that opened the door to an investigation. He went up going, he got disbarred. lost his judgeship, of course, and went to prison. What about cops?

You know, I had a good relationship with cops, and I'll be perfectly honest with, they never asked me anything inappropriate, and I never asked them anything inappropriate. We kind of had an understanding. I respected them, they respected me. You know, people say they had cops on the take. I don't believe that out here in California. Perhaps maybe back east, you know, they say there's a lot of corruption and whatnot within departments. That might be something you can address with me. Is it true? A lot of police on the take back east? Not from what I've heard.

I mean, maybe you hear about like the mob stories. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. You're great at protecting your data, but lots of places could still expose you to identity theft. I thought it was safe. If that happens, LifeLock gives you a U.S.-based restoration agent who will stick by your side from start to finish.

Phone calls, filing documentation, preparing insurance claims, your agent handles it all. In fact, we're so confident restoration is guaranteed. Pour your money back. Isn't it nice to have someone like that on your side? Save up to 30% your first year at LifeLock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. Nothing that I've experienced. I think that that's a fallacy.

I don't believe it's true. I think you have more corrupt prison guards than anything. Yeah, I think a lot of corrupt prison guards. I experienced that myself. I think the temptations are to smuggle that stuff in. And I think they make lousy pay the prison guards. What's a prison guard to get a year? $35,000, $40,000.

Now it's much more. Is it? And the feds are starting way higher. Are they? Yeah. But I know back then it wasn't much and, you know, very tempted to bring in some dope, some cigarettes or whatever. I think when I was in Texas, I think packs of cigarettes were going for like $700.

dollars. I don't know if that's true. I never got involved in any of that stuff. What was your experience with the corrupt prison guard? Just you could tell the guys that were involved with the prisoners, you can tell by the relationship they had, how they conducted themselves, you know, some of the, I never had any direct, I never had them do anything for me. I didn't trust them. Now you're in leadership before social media and when social media came to existence.

What was the biggest difference would you say when social media came to fruition? Well, I think people suddenly thought they somehow had a relationship with you. I remember when I had a pretty good social media presence on Facebook and then I left the club and then suddenly I was an outcast. And, you know, these people that had never priced stepfoot in a Hells Angels clubhouse, never been on a Hells Angel run, never interacted with any Hells Angels. Suddenly, they were judging me and condemning me. And I'll tell you, if we would have been face-to-face, they wouldn't have done that. But the keyboard, it's very easy to type out those derogatory remarks.

Tell us about your decision to leave the club and what that was like. Well, it was a couple of years' decision. I basically got to the point. I was constantly fighting with Sunny. He was breaking the rules. He had signed a million-dollar contract with Tony Scott to receive money for a Hells Angel movie. Hells Angels received nothing for it.

He wrote a book, which was fine. It was his story, but he made a deal with the club. he was supposed to give the club. He never paid the club any money. He just broke the rules, bent the rules as he encountered them. And I finally reached a point in time, like I stated earlier, we had become the people rebelled against. We weren't outlaws anymore.

We had all these strict rules we had to go by. The rules got so strict that when I quit the club, I was accused of not going by the ex-members rules. Well, who in the fuck follows ex-members? members rules. I'm not in the club anymore. I'm not following any rules. That was one of the reasons I left. I've been following rules for 40 years. And I decided I wanted to get back to the roots. But, you know, people that, Sonny wanted a guy back in the club that had testified at a grand jury against Hells Angels. And he was willing to overlook that because I had said the guy

was no good. It wasn't about right or wrong. It was about sunny having more power than me. And I just thought that this just isn't worth it. And I had reached a point in time that if I had stayed in the Hells Angels, it would have strictly been for my ego. Because it was a big deal, stepping away from that lifestyle. I was very powerful in the outlaw motorcycle culture. And then suddenly I walk away. That was my whole identity, the Hells Angels. And, you You know, it's been since 2011, and, you know, I've tried to remain, and I embraced my independent status that I had before I joined the Hells Angels. You know, that's where I'm at now. I tell these stories.

I tell the stories because I want a correct historical record of what transpired and what took place those 40 years I rode with. the Hells Angels. And there's also another 10 years prior to going to the Hells Angels. So I've got almost 50, 60 years of living in the outlaw bike culture that I want to get a correct record. I don't want somebody 100 years from now writing a story about the Hells Angels and making me part of that story that's complete, incorrect stuff. What was your biggest regret as a Hells Angels biker. My biggest regret. Probably that, one of the top things, that explosion in downtown LA where a 15-year-old kid got killed, a Mongol's cousin, a Mongol and a 15-year-old cousin got killed. I regretted that. I think losing the basic feeling of the brotherhood and the writing.

You know, it's like they talk about, you know, it became a well-oiled criminal organization. Well, you know what? Get on your motorcycle with 25 outlaws, no matter what club they're in, and right across country with them. And you're going to find out there's not much organized organization to them. You know, it's chaos. It's like herding cats. And do I think the club is a criminal organization? No, the club is not a criminal organization, but it's an organization with criminal tenant.

I mean, there's no doubt about that, but so is the Senate. So is the American Medical Association. So is the bar association with lawyers. I mean, it just depends, you know, corrupt doctors. There's, you know, corruptions everywhere. And I think I've stated this. I stated it earlier on this show as well. The two biggest profound things I think I learned as a hell's angel where, you know,

don't make yourself bigger than the position. You hold. I said that. And to be an effective peacemaker, you have to be willing to go to war. That's one of the things I think that helped me. And people listened to when I talked to them because they knew my history, you know. I mean, I came out of that war with the outlaws and the, uh, the Mongols and I had had enough.

I earnestly, you know, seek peace. But my biggest regret are Hell's Angel brothers that were killed by other brothers, you know, the biker on biker violence. I mean, why are we killing outlaws? I mean, it's ridiculous. We all share the same values, motorcycles, brotherhood, want to have a good time. I, you know, a lot of people don't agree. agree with me but I'll tell you that book excuse me that movie the bike riders is very very profound

the Mike Nichols the director I think he was the director he corrected it he somehow captured the correct transition of the club as it as it made a train change from a bunch of guys riding motorcycles and having fun into something more more sinister more criminal And he really captured the transition. There's a point in that movie where these guys go to a party. And this happened to me as well. They went to a party. And the club had expanded and gotten so big.

They didn't know who these people were at the party. They were brothers, but they didn't know who they were. And they wound up having a beef with these guys because of how they were treating somebody. And I think that's what we started experiencing. And, you know, I end my new book crossing the Rubicon, and I talk about the pizza ovens. And the pizza ovens, when I came back from prison, that's when I heard that Sunny was really mad. I was doing the Outlaw Chronicles. I had written a book, and there was really a movement to silence me.

And I was warned by, you know, people in the club were not allowed to talk to me, but they did, you know. you know, Sonny had his people that supported him, but there was also a faction of people that I had interacted with over the years, and they communicated with me. And there was a movement in the club. They killed four Hells Angels within a couple of year period and cremated them in a pizza oven. And that's, you know, I talk about that, and that's on my book ends. And that was one of the things that really. made me feel I made the right decision to leave the club.

I mean, the violence on violence to brothers is just, it's not what this club is all about. Now, you left the club in good standing, but eventually got marked in bad standing. That's correct. How did that make you feel when that happened after so much service and dedication to the club? I was hurt and I was pissed,

but the guy that called me on the phone and said, your status has been changed. You're out bad? And he goes, I just want you to know. we're not happy with you for leaving. And I said, okay, well, I want you to know something. I said, if you guys approach me,

I'm going to assume you're coming to hurt me. So it's a two-fucking way street. I don't want a problem with the club. I go, but it all comes down to this after 40 years. I go, okay, man. That was my last conversation with anybody, an official capacity. What did that teach you in that moment

about the moment of what you were fighting for about brotherhood all those years because that's what you defended the whole time, the concept of brotherhood, what did that mean to you? I think it kind of made me think of some of Bob Dylan's lyrics, you know, and to live outside the law, you must be honest, you know, and I mean, that wasn't honest behavior. I mean, I didn't do anything to anybody. I didn't inform on anybody. I just, I went to the meeting, which protocol called for, and I said, I've had enough. you know and that wasn't good enough you know they wanted to make me suffer more you

know it was it was all sunny I mean people can say whatever they want you know oh we were gonna kick him out anyways yeah coulda woulda whata you know I mean I I gave 40 years of my life dedicated and that's why you repaid I mean not very attractive to people you know a lot of people in Ventura left the club after that. They thought, man, this is the way they're treating George, because I didn't do anything. I just had had enough and I wanted out. Did you feel in danger

once you left? And does that feeling ever go away? You know, I don't feel I'm cautious. You know, I watch where I go. I watch who I communicate with.

I watch who I trust. You know, I have a relationship, my wife Beverly. I've known her since I was 12. I trust her. I trust my daughter, who's also my lawyer,

and I trust my 22-year-old son, Finn. Those are the people I trust. I've got a few people in the club that are ex-members that I have a relationship with, Yonka, Robert Poland. These are longtime members. The rest of the guys are pretty much dead.

You know, they're gone. My friend Art, I was very close with him. He helped me set up the bike show at Terre Hut Prison, a federal prison. He wound up in the pizza oven. So, you know, when I talk about that, I'm not exaggerating things. It hits very close to home. And I learned that there's a whole community of excommunicated bikers that all become friendly.

Like Peewee was saying he's friends with banditos and Mongols, everyone that's been. interesting there's actually uh i'm not going to say where but there's this i got call i got a phone call today hey do you want to come to the uh uh run this year they're having a run and uh it's going to be mongles outlaws banditos uh perhaps pagans vagos all ex members hell's angels and you know i was invited to come you know whether i'll come or not depends on my schedule but uh life after the Hells Angels is alive and well if you want it you know you just have to look for it you know life after the outlaws I mean you know people move on I talk to the outlaws you know I feel like I'm on good terms with them I like the guys I liked them when I was negotiating

with them same thing with the banditos you know I haven't uh talked to any Mongols lately but you know I'm out there if they ever want to talk. Now, once you walked away, did you ever expect you were to get arrested that third and final time? No, I did not. That was a crime that was committed in 2007. It was now 2011. I had not been involved in it. Their best witness told the grand jury,

did George Christie tell you to firebomb the tattoo shops? No. He didn't tell me, but I knew what he was thinking. that's in the testimony and what did they end up charging you with uh well it was eight counts interfering with interstate commerce arson three counts of arson uh really bizarre you know interfering with interstate commerce uh it's because i interrupted a business with the arson and you know arson is a very serious federal offense i mean that holds a life sentence And if you, uh, so my daughter was negotiating the thing.

Uh, she was one of the lawyers, uh, when they offered to drop the mandatory minimums of life. And I pled from zero to five years, uh, at almost 70 years old, it looked pretty attractive, you know, uh, going to prison for the rest of my life, uh, was not something I wanted to do. Judge Wu sent me down to Judge Walters, uh, uh, uh, courtroom. along with the U.S. attorney and my attorneys and basically said, you know, count six, seven, and eight as mandatory minimums of life. And if you get found of those, Judge Wu is going to be compelled to sentence you to life.

And I don't think you want to spend your golden years in prison. And we made a deal. We walked back into the courtroom. I'll never forget Judge Wu. He looked at us and he goes, well, they both look on that. happy we must have a deal and we did you know and uh you know i gave a speech uh just prior to my sentencing uh it was very dramatic uh you know the the man law enforcement is pursuing no longer

exists you know that's how i started out the speech and basically what i did it was a very short speed at the speech at the end of the speech i pled guilty to poor leadership. I wouldn't accept the fact. I said, I did not order those fire bombings. And, you know, Judge Wu could have accepted. You know what the allocution is. They want you to make a statement in federal court.

They wanted an allocution, but I would not admit that I ordered the fire bombings because I didn't. And there's no way I was going to, I had actually told the guys involved in it to stay out of it. I go, you're not in the tattoo business. What do you care? The tattoo business had changed. It was now all over television. Everybody had tattoos. The cops had tattoos.

And I just figured, you know, it was time to move on. And ultimately, you know, I sold my tattoo business. I sold everything out and moved on. And you still ended up doing a year in prison for that. I still wound up doing a year in Texas prison, you know. But I sailed with the banditos, you know, walk the yard with the bandos. I had fun. Do you think that made up for previous crimes you may not have,

gotten caught for over the course of your life well you know anything i ever went to jail for was nothing i'd ever done you know the things i did uh i'm certainly not gonna confess you're not getting a confession out of me that's what you think no i you know what i went to jail for i had nothing to do with and you know it's ironic and that's what judge you judge woo said it i mean he goes you know you're going to texas for a year i think judge woo realized i did not order those fire bombings but he told me himself in open court, you know, because God only knows what you got away with. And so take the year, go do your time, and enjoy the rest of your life. And that's what I'm doing. How different was federal prison from the first time in the 80s versus in the...

Drastic. Six people in the cell, two-man or three, really a two-man cell. I guess it can be a four-man cell. Initially, they were two-man cells and they had six people in it. I stayed with one of the leaders of the banditos. We had a cell together, and we lived in the middle of the cartel guys. Nobody wanted a lot of cartel guys because we were on the border there. And, you know, they had that prisoner exchange. The American prisoners would come from the Mexican prisons, you know, about 40 pounds underweight, and then the cartel guys would go back to the Mexican prisons, all healthy.

and sassy. And, you know, like one of the cartel guys told me, he goes, as soon as I get up there, he goes, my people will pay $20,000 to one of the prison officials, and I'll get let out and I'll go back to work. If that was true, I don't know. He seemed like he was sincere, and he seemed like he was happy to go home.

So I figured he was probably getting out. Did you become a target in there because you were not a leader anymore? No, I, you know, like I said, I was hanging out with the band. There was a lot of Sirenos from the Southern California, the gang members. Are you familiar with Sireneos? Yeah. The atmosphere was different, but, you know, I was still George Christie, you know.

And, you know, I walk the yard every day. And you know what it's like. You're also older. They probably looked at you kind of like an OG and respected you more for that. Yeah, I never had a bad experience. there. The Hells Angels, I was told, asked some people to make a move against me, and they refused. They said, do it yourself. You got people in there. And there were no Hells Angels in that prison, but there were Hells Angels in there that if they really wanted to make a move on me,

they could have done it themselves. What do you think hurt you the most about leaving something you were so dedicated to for all of those years? It was a big blow to my ego. I'm not going to be honest. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm going to be honest with you. It certainly affected my ego. I had to come to terms with a lot of things. But, you know, I found out in the end, I'm, you know, I'm still the same guy I always was. I was a loner for 10 years in the outlaw motorcycle culture. And I'm a loner. I wound up where I started. I'm a loner again now. And I'm fine with it. What's your life like now since leaving and since prison that last time? Well, I mean, you know, I've done several television shows.

I've written four books. I've got my own little, you know, Patreon going and my podcast going. I'm like an 80-year-old man living in a outlived himself. I mean, the whole thing's amazing to me. I don't even understand, you know, the social media. I'm kind of stumbling my way through it, but I guess I'm doing okay. Yeah, you're like my dad. My dad's turned 80 this year, and he's on social.

Snapchat. He'll He messages us more on Snapchat than texts. He's, uh, he learned. You have to kind of adapt to this world. But I mean, I told you you're doing a great job on yours. Yeah, and I appreciate that. You know what? I'm a former Marine. I mean, that's, that's what we do, man. We adapt. You have to. It's the people that get, you see it in so many small businesses.

They're kind of still in the stone age. Yeah. With, with everything, non-social media was. Um, and you have to adapt into it. Yeah. I, I'm, uh, you know, I've got my wife, Beverly and I do everything together. You know, I've answered people's questions every week. I try to do a little story on some different people

that people may not know a lot about. I've been putting together a story about thunder, you know. I probably shouldn't even say that because it's really weird. Every time I do a story, then two weeks later somebody comes up with the same story.

And, you know, I don't know if they're like a I think they're like probably have more money invested and they're a little bit more media savvy maybe than I. But I, you know, I'm getting my following built up. I've got a lot of people I feel are loyal to me. They enjoy what I have to say. I try to be honest. Don't try to make myself bigger than the position I'm holding.

I'm being a smart ass now. Now, you have almost 80 years of life experience. What do you think is like the top life lesson you want to share with the, audience that you can that you've taken away from your life you know you need to set well you know you need to set a set a set of standards for yourself and you need to follow them and you need to adhere to them you don't want to change them every time it doesn't suit you you know you're going to run across obstacles and you're going to go i'd like to walk around that but you know the morality you set for yourself doesn't allow you to do that and if you want to stay true to yourself you'll feel

better about yourself, man. Dig in and be the person you really want to be. And because you can become that person. It's just, you know, it's, and, you know, I'll say to people, uh, that are just coming home from prison, man, don't give up, you know, uh, you know, look at you. You know, look at me. And I mean, we're still moving forward. A lot of people come home and they, they just kind of throw their hands up and they think it's the end of the world for them. I, uh, I was very disappointed, uh, you know, they make you take all these re-end, you know, they make you take all these re-end, three classes in the federal system, which are ridiculous. They don't teach you anything.

But I know when I came home, the probation department was really pissed off because I was doing the Outlaw Chronicles. And they wanted to know how much money I was making, how much money I was going to give them, and that isn't there a law that I shouldn't be able to profit off my criminal past? And, you know, I sat there and I listened to the supervisor in two or three probation. officers like brow beating me. And at the end of the meeting, I said, you know, I go, I just find this ironic. I said, you know, I've been back three months now, four months, and I go, you guys haven't

once asked me how my reentry was. I said, because you don't give a shit. All you care about is, are you going to get your cut of the money from Outlaw Chronicles? That's all they cared about, you know. Do you look at yourself as a criminal? I look at myself as an outlaw, you know. I think there's a difference. People confuse the outlaw with the criminal.

And I think sometimes outlaws are pushed into criminal acts because they want to get by. I mean, I'm certainly not going to let my family starve, but I'm blessed. Things have been working good for me. I'm on my fourth book. They've been successful. I'm successful in TV shows. I give lectures. I've gone as far away as Hawaii.

and give lectures to corporations and whatnot, spoke at the Monterey Naval Academy on leadership. I mean, I've really been lucky, but I don't consider... Do you consider yourself a criminal? I would say no. No, I don't consider myself a criminal. I, you know, I'm taking the old man's philosophy. If I only knew back then what I know now.

but you know I'm happy with where I'm at in life and you know I hope people see me maybe and this may sound kind of corny maybe as an older statesman you know I'd like to share my experiences with young people

hoping all the bike clubs get back on track because I think it's out there I think they want to and I think maybe they will at some point in time I understand now some of the clubs are sitting down and talking. I don't know if that's true or not. I haven't spoke to anybody.

I certainly haven't been invited to mediate anything, but I'm being a smart ass. Imagine them hiring you as a mediator. You know how there's mediators in courts. I know, like the professional 1% or, you know, mediator. Well, you know, as a 1% percent of the briefcase. I'm here.

That would be really funny. They want my insight. You show up with a suit and tie at everything. Well, I don't know. I don't own a suit and tie, but I'd wear one of my wool shirts I button the top button. Yeah.

Well, George, I appreciate you coming on the show today, man. It was my pleasure. I'm glad we did it. It was a lot of fun. Thank you, man. Yeah, thank you. Bye.