Locked In with Ian Bick - How I Ended Up in Federal Prison & Survived | Najla

Episode Date: November 23, 2025

Najla was born in New York but grew up in North Carolina, where a turbulent and abusive childhood pushed her to survive by any means necessary. On her own at a young age, she turned to scams to fund her lifestyle and escape the chaos at home. What started as small hustles quickly grew into full-blown bank fraud that eventually landed her in federal prison. Najla’s story is one of pain, survival, and transformation — from a broken childhood to facing the harsh reality of prison life, and ultimately finding strength through redemption. Her journey exposes the dark truth behind white-collar crime, fraud, and the system that punishes survival. #LockedInWithIanBick #TrueCrime #WhiteCollarCrime #FederalPrison #FraudStory #BankFraud #RealStories #RedemptionStory Thank you to BLUECHEW & DAWS for sponsoring this episode: BlueChew: Visit https://bluechew.com/ and use promo code LOCKEDIN at checkout to get your first month of BlueChew & pay five bucks for shipping. DAWS: Go to http://www.daws.org/ to donate, adopt or send items from their wishlist. Connect with Najla: https://www.instagram.com/iamnajlawakeela?igsh=MXgxbnY5dDZrOXNkNg== Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00 – Intro: Who Is Naja & What Her Story Is About 00:32 – Naja’s Early Life, Family Background & Childhood 02:54 – Growing Up: Abuse, Isolation, Moving & Instability 09:24 – Moments of Happiness & Early Independence 10:31 – Orlando Teen Years & Becoming a Teen Mom 13:12 – Struggling for Survival: Money Issues & Social Security 14:53 – Turning to Crime: First Scams, Fraud & Hustles 19:39 – How Check Fraud Works: Naja’s Early Schemes 21:54 – Escalation: Leveling Up Into Bigger Scams 26:14 – The $900,000 Fraud Scheme & Getting Caught 31:43 – Arrest, Federal Charges, Prison Time & Testifying 33:58 – Life in Federal Prison: Daily Reality, Hustles & Survival 38:19 – Prison Fights, Conflict & How She Survived 42:32 – Prison Mentality, Family Issues & Preparing for Release 47:08 – Getting Out: Recidivism, Relapse & Second Chances 51:42 – Her Final Prison Stint & Choosing to Change Her Life 56:39 – Starting Over: Homeless Shelter, Struggle & Cosmetology School 01:01:26 – Moving to Atlanta & Fully Rebuilding Her Life 01:03:46 – Overcoming a Criminal Record & Finding Opportunity 01:05:04 – Owning Her Past: Disclosure, Stigma & Testimony 01:09:03 – Reflections: Lessons, Growth & Advice to Her Younger Self 01:11:54 – Family Estrangement, Healing & Forgiveness 01:14:07 – Closing Thoughts & Final Message Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Cut the bowl spend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign, terms of conditions apply. Gave me account numbers for some executives at Bank of America. So how does this escalate? How does it go from just doing four or five hundred bucks, cashing it in? Where does it go? I beat that lady down and they came in, the guards tased me. Did you have any relationships with any of the women? No, they tried. They tried to come in my room.

Najla Arrington grew up in an abusive home and turned to scams and fraud just to survive. By her early 20s, she was running a full-blown bank fraud scheme that landed her in federal prison. This is how a girl trying to escape her childhood ended up in one of the biggest mistakes of her life and how she's rebuilding everything from the ground up. Also, everyone, new Lockton merch just dropped. Use code Lockton 20 to get 20% off your order. We have new hoodies. We have new beanie and we have the signed locked in figures.

Every order comes with stickers and wristbands. Go check it out. And we will also be running a 50% off storewide Black Friday sale this coming Friday for Black Friday. Go check it out. Thanks, guys. Najla, welcome to Lockton. Thanks so much for coming out here today. Of course.

Straight from Atlanta. Yes. And thanks to Mary for connecting us. Shout out to Mary. She gave us so many awesome guests. especially a lot of the female guests, which is great. It's great to form those bonds and relationships and have them on the show. I got to see her last night at hang time in Bridgeport.

Yes, I saw that on her story, yeah. Did you ever go to one of those? I have not, but I need to make my way. Yeah, yeah, next time you're out in this area and you go to one, it's a really cool program. We had Charles Grady on the show. Okay. He's the one that runs everything. Okay.

So we got to meet him. He was the former narcotics officer in Connecticut and FBI spokesman. Wow. And then he founded all these great organizations. Wow. Okay, okay. So where did you grow up? Where are you from?

Long Island. So, well, I was born in Long Island and Amityville, to be exact. And I was there until I was about 10 or 11, and my family decided to go back down south where they were from. They were born in the south. And so, yeah, I was in Charlotte, North Carolina. What was your upbringing like? It was very dysfunctional. So my job.

dad was abusive to my mom. My mom was probably not the best person either, so I couldn't kind of understand why he was the way that he was, but it still wasn't right. And so she in turn kind of took that out on me because I was my dad's, at the time there was three of us, but I was my dad's only child. Like I was the only child from my dad. So she kind of took it out on me. How would you take it out on you? Beatings. So yeah, so she, that was her method. method yelling and beatings. So yeah. Did your parents stay together your whole childhood? No, they divorced when I was 12. We were in Raleigh, North Carolina at that time. And that's actually how I ended up in Charlotte because when they divorced, my mom took us and moved to

Charlotte and my dad stayed in Raleigh. Yep. And once you got to North Carolina, did your life change at all environment-wise? Was it a lot different than New York? Yeah, because my dad, my dad, had kind of, he worked a lot, but when he was home, he kind of protected me, if you will. Like, he wouldn't let my mom hit on me. So when he wasn't there, she just kind of had free range at that time. So, so, so yeah, it was really different. I grew up with, like I said, it was three of us at that time. There's five of us in total now, but at that time, it was just three girls. And I was the middle child. And, um, and yeah, So she was, the angrier she was, the more frustrated she was, the more she took it out on me.

What do you think was the worst thing she ever did, do you? She beat me with like a two-by-four, like a piece of wood. And so, and I laugh about it now because it was, that was probably the worst thing ever. I used to run away a lot when I was little. Like, what kid wants to be in that type of environment? You know, so I used to run away a lot. And I would get, I was still because I wasn't, I wasn't at home. So I was still, like, food and clothes and things like that from the mall.

Just so I wouldn't have to go back to her house. And so this particular time, she was, I don't know, I can't even remember what I did. I just remember that piece of wood coming from out of nowhere. I was about 14, maybe 14 at the time. and after she did that, I called my grandmother, which was my dad's mom, and told her what happened. And she lived in Raleigh at the time, and she just immediately drove to Charlotte, and she came and she picked me up. And I never went back to Charlotte as a child again with my mom. Why do you think your dad let you stay there when he knew what was going on?

Because he was sick himself. So my dad had high blood pressure, diabetes, and he was a double, amputee and he was living with my grandma. And so, and my grandma at that time, she was older. She's older. And so she couldn't take care of both of us, you know. So I stayed with my mom. Was your mom working?

No. She didn't have a job? No. So growing up, my dad was, he was, my mom was a stay-at-home mom. My dad, he was a machinist. And I say it was because he passed away in like 2012. But he was a machinist. and he worked on like shipyards and things like that.

And so my mom just stayed home. And so she never worked. When her and my dad, when they divorced and we moved to Charlotte, my mom moved into the projects. And so it was free to live there, I believe. So she didn't have to have a job. So was there some part of you that wish your parents stayed together just for a better financial situation? We would have never been in the projects. We would never been in the projects, but I also didn't like to,

my dad was much bigger than my mom. So, of course, this is before he was a double amputee, but he was much bigger than my mom, and he was pretty mean as well, you know, towards her. And so he would, I feel like one of them would have killed each other, you know. So it's probably better that it happened like this. Did you have a lot of friends? No.

No. I had my family, so we moved a lot. So when we left New York, we moved to Raleigh, North Carolina. And then we left Raleigh and we moved to Norfolk, Virginia. And they were in Newport News, Virginia. And my dad had a lot of family out there in Virginia. And then we moved back to Raleigh. So, you know, it's hard to make friends when you're moving, you hear, you're there, you hear, you're there. So I really didn't have very many friends. And a matter of fact, when I was in Virginia, I got picked on a lot. Let me go back. In New York, New York is like a melting pot, right?

So there's black, white, Spanish, Asian, whatever, you know. And growing up and going to school, it was just normal to see everybody. And we used to walk to school together. You know, we lived in the house. We lived in the suburbs. We lived in the house. And all the kids, we walked to school together. Everybody was friends.

And when my family moved to the South, that was the first time I felt any different because I was black. And so, and not even not just black, but I was darker. And so the lighter black kids tease me a lot because I was darker. And so that's really why I didn't have very many friends because they were just. just mean. Those kids were mean. They were mean in North Carolina. They were mean in Virginia. And it was just a lot of colorism back then. You mixed that with what was going on at home. Right. It was just terrible. Did you have any happy moments from your child that did all? Let me think. I got to think about it right. So my, my family used to, we used to go on like outings.

a lot and try to seem like everything's normal. And so, you know, we would go to parks and museums and things like that. You know, I remember being really interested in that as a child. When I was old enough to get a job, and that was like 1993, 94, you know, I was 14, that's when I was probably the most happiest because I went. I filled out applications by myself. I went and talked to hiring managers by myself, and I got several jobs,

and I was able to make my own money, and I felt like I didn't have to listen to anybody when I was making my own money, and I felt like I could take care of myself. And you were still living with your grandmother at that point? So I used to be back and forth a lot, so I would be with my grandma and my dad, and then I would probably get upset with them,

and I'd go back to Charlotte with my mom, then I get upset with her and then I go back. And it was just a lot of back. It was a lot of back and forth until, I'm sorry, until that time when she beat me with that two-by-four. And then my grandmother came to get me. And then my grandmother took me on a cruise. She took me on a cruise. And she took me on a cruise with my dad's brother and his wife.

And they lived in Orlando, Florida. and on that cruise they asked me, did I want to come to live with them? And I was like, are you serious? In Florida? Disney World? I'm like, I'm 15. So I'm like, yeah.

And so I ended up living in Orlando, Florida. Oh, wow. And do you finish high school in Florida? I finished high school in Florida. Did you have a better experience in Florida? I did. Oh, my God. My aunt and my uncle, they're both passed away now,

but they were my saviors, like literally. So you asked about a happy moment. That was a very happy moment. moment. I live there and they treated me. They had one child and he was adopted and they treated me like just like I was their kid. I mean, it's my dad's brother with my uncle. I grew, I knew them my whole life. They always used to come around to our house and so it was just like my second family. So you graduate high school. What are your plans at that point? What are you thinking of for the future? So I got pregnant when I was in high school. I got pregnant. I was a teen mom.

I graduated high school with a with a baby. And so I didn't know what I was doing, you know. I was still, when I look back on that now, it's me still trying to find some sort of real love, you know. And so even though my eye and my uncle, they showed me what they could. It was still like, why did my own mother and father, didn't, you know, weren't this way. And so I had a daughter. She's 30 now. She's 30 now.

But I was 17 when I had, I was pregnant when I was 16, 17 when I had her. And that, you know, put my life in a different motion because now I have a person to take care of. Her dad was around, but he was 17 too. And he was still, you know, wanting to hang out. and, you know, do whatever. And so I was really stuck with a baby. Because even though my aunt and my uncle treated me like their own child, they weren't going to take care of my child.

And so, and they told me that. Like, this is all you. And that's when I started being concerned about money because I really didn't have any. And let me go back. Let me not say that. because my father was disabled and when my aunt and my uncle took me in, they applied for me to get Social Security too, because he was getting Social Security. So I was, I don't know, 16, 17, and I remember I used to get like a $700 check every month

because my dad was sick. And but when you grow up in a family, they don't teach you anything about money or finances or anything like that. Like I thought, I was like, oh, this is free money. And I just went shopping every day, you know. Nobody told me anything different. I didn't think about future or anything. So I just really blew, I calculated it recently.

I blew thousands of, you know, tens of thousands of dollars. That was really free money. But, you know, I could have bought a house with that. I could have done so many things. And, but I didn't know. And so I figured I needed more money. When that stopped, you know, I was like, okay, I don't get this anymore. Like, I need money now.

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Did you consider options such as adopting or any of that when you became pregnant? No. Not at all. I um because when you grow up in a in a in a black family you know you just really don't do that you know you you keep you you live with your decisions and and that's that and so um I remember of course my mom knew and I remember her telling me like you better not get an abortion you know and I'm actually thankful that she that that was one right thing that she that she told me But, you know, so I just, and what's crazy is my aunt that I live with in Florida was an adoption caseworker.

She was a social worker, but she worked with teens who were pregnant who wanted to put their kids up for adoption. I'm literally just remembering that right now. And even she never mentioned that to me. She never, so it's like that's your baby, you deal with it. Do you ever think about how differently your life would have. When had you not gotten pregnant at that age? Yes, it would. Because a lot of things I did, I thought I had to do because I had a kid to take care of.

And so, yeah, there's just, my life would have been totally different. What do you think is the biggest thing you know now that you wish you knew at that point when you had the kid? To be married before you have a child, you know. It's not fun doing it by yourself. Like being a single parent, I don't, I feel like people glorify that now, but it's, that's crazy. Like, because you, it's a, there's a lot that you have to, if you want to be a good parent, you know, that's a lot that you have to put it into being a parent and raising a human. So I would have been married. I would have been settled.

I would not have been 16. I would not have been 16. So you end up having the kid. What happens next? You're struggling for money. I'm struggling for money. I'm still living with my, I live with my aunt and my uncle for a while. And then for whatever reason, I needed to leave.

And so me and my daughter's father got somewhere to stay. And when, like, we got an apartment together. And I instantly felt trapped because he was, he's a great person now. But then, like he's a great person now at home, but then he just was not a good person to me. I felt like he wanted me to have to depend on him. And I started feeling like my mom, like she was with my father because she didn't have, she didn't have a job. She didn't have a career.

She didn't have any skills. She didn't have anything. And so I started feeling like that. Like, he's forcing me to depend on him. And I do not want to, I don't want to do anything. that my mother and father did, you know. And so I just tried to figure out ways how to get out of that. And that's really when I started stealing money.

How did you go about stealing money? I, my cousins, so when I was, I said my aunt, I was living my aunt and uncle, they had a son, and he was three years younger than me. And I say was because he passed away too, but he was three years younger to me. and he had a friend. It was a white guy. And it's crazy that after all these years, I remember the name he went by.

He went by Skeedy. But he knew how to make checks on a... We had the old computer, like the first one that you ever, the dial-up, the first computer. And he, I don't know how... I don't even know how the conversation came up. I don't even know. I just know he's the person that taught me

how to make a check with a computer. And I was like, what? And so I would make the, I would do what he told me to do. I would go get the paper from like Office Depot or whatever and like the blank checks and and make them on the computer. And then I would take the, I would write them to myself and go take them to like the grocery store or whatever and cash them. Where would you get the account numbers or are they fictitious? Yeah, made up.

I knew enough to find a real routing number. For a bank, so the routing number would be real, but I would just make up numbers. How would you find a routing number? Was there Google in the internet back then? No, but my, like, my aunt-in-uncle had checkbooks. So you would take their account? Like, not their account number, but I would take the routing numbers. And now back then, when you would go to a grocery store and pay with a check, they don't have really a check system that they do now. They have to take it.

Do they take your ID? No. So it was just hand the check. And whose name did you print on the check? I said put my own. You would put your own name on the check? I was dumb. I did it once and they cashed it.

I said, oh, okay, I'm going to do it again. And that's kind of how I got started. I did many other things. How much are you spending on groceries? What's the hall every time you go with a fake check? So I wasn't buying things. I was taking the check and cashing it. I would write it for $400 and get them to give me the $400 or $500.

So it's not, I wasn't in the stores like shopping for anything. I would just get the money and then I would leave. And I would go spend the money on my friends. Like, oh, you know, the friends that I did, I know at that time in that high school in Florida, you know, I met people. So I had friends. I would give the money away. I would just do the dumbest stuff. So the check is made out to you.

To me. From who? from you? A random. Oh, okay. So you would make up a random name. I would make up a random name. Okay, and it would be made out to you.

Yeah. And do you have to show your idea at that time to cash it or now? No, I don't even remember, because I didn't even have a license at that time. Wow. So it's way different back then. Yeah, it was, yeah, you, I remember once I took a, this I did do, I took a check out of my grandmother's checkbook and wrote it to myself. I was 13, maybe four.

14 and I went to the bank and they gave me the money. Like, and I'm a kid and I look, I always look very young. So even when I was 13, 14, I looked like I'm maybe 10 or 11. Like I look like a kid and they gave me the money. Things used to be very lenient back then, which is why I got away with a lot of things. I say got away, but I didn't really get away with it. But, you know, at that time I thought I was getting away with it. And so it was just very, it was very easy.

Now are you spending some of the money on your daughter, which was the reason you started stealing? Yeah. My daughter, I tried to, that part of my life is a blur. Honestly, I just know that I was in Florida. I was living with my daughter's father. I bought a car. And I bought a car so we could get around, so I didn't have to depend on him to take me wherever. and yet I tried to do my own thing,

so I didn't have to ask anybody for anything. Did you stop working because you said you were hustling? Yeah, so I was, so I did so much. When I was back then, when I was in the middle of all of that, people used to say, you live a life like you're 40. Like you've done so much stuff like you're like a 40-year-old. And I used to be like, what do you mean? But I really did a lot of things.

And so I worked, my first job was at Carowans at the, it's an amusement park like six flags, but it's in North Carolina. I was pregnant with my daughter when I got the job there. And then after that, I had like fast food jobs. But then I realized I didn't want to work in fast food. And I thought about, I said, these people are paying me X amount of dollars when this big corporation is making all this money and I'm making this little bitty piece of check. And that's, and I said I don't want to do this. And so that's really when, you know, my mind just reversed. And I said, you know, I'll steal money instead.

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with all nine essential amino acids to help build muscle, give you energy, and keep you satisfied longer. So keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk. They're working for it. So yeah. So how does this escalate? How does it go from just doing four or five hundred bucks, cashing it in? Where does it go? So I learned how to do other things and I won't mention everything, but I learned how to do other things, and I would make $5,000, $10,000. And I did this for many years. And then when I was, yeah, I did this for many years. And then when I was about 23, it was somewhere around there, my early 20s.

I had a second daughter by that time. So my second daughter is six years younger than my oldest daughter. So I have an eight and two-year-old. I had a criminal record in Florida at that time because I did get caught cashing one of those four or $500 checks at a grocery store. And they ended up giving me probation. And I didn't think anything of it because they pulled me into a side room and they said, oh, yeah, we're going to give you probation, you know, whatever.

And I just, I was like, okay, and they just let me go. And so I'm like 19 at the time, because this was like 1999 when this happened. And then I couldn't get a job anymore. And I didn't put two and two together when they had me in that room. I just said, okay, because they let me go. And so I tried to go get a job, and I can't get a job anymore. And so that's really how the escalation started. I said, okay, well, I can't get a job.

I still need money. And I just learned how to get more money at one time than $4,500. And like I said, $5,000, $10,000. And then in 20,000, $3,000, I, had a boyfriend at that time, and of course he had a mother, so his mom. And then I had a friend. It was another guy. And the other guy worked at a bank.

And they knew the things that I had done, you know, in the past before. And I said, well, hey, you know, I know how we can make some money, you know. And, you know, I told them about it. And they said, okay, let's do it. So I, I, um, I faxed some papers. I went to, I faxed some papers to the guy's job where I took, he has, because he worked at the bank, he had to have given me these account numbers. It's like, he gave me account numbers for some executives at, at Bank of America.

And, um, they, they, um, they, um, they, um, um, I took, and then he gave me some papers and I filled them out and I faxed the money from the executive's bank account into my boyfriend's mom's account. And, um, and it was, it was $900,000. And so it was $900,000 and I'm 23, 24. And it wasn't supposed to be that much. It was supposed to be like $30,000. And so the next morning when she calls and she's like, there's like $900,000 in my account,

I was like, this is not good. You know, this is, I, that's when I got nervous for the first time in my life, really, really nervous. And back, like I, when I first started all of this, I did things by myself. I didn't include other people. Nobody really knew what I was doing. And so for me to have included these people, and they don't really move how I move. They don't think how I think. So even though I was nervous, I still remained calm.

They were nervous, and they went out. They did exactly everything I told them not to do. I said, do not go spend this money. Do not do that. And the next, that night, this one has spent $20,000 on this. and somebody withdrew, you know, 30,000 over here. And I'm like, I told you don't do anything. And so the guy's mom, my boyfriend at the time, mom, went back to, she went to the bank that

morning, got some money out, but then she went back later that evening to get more money out, something that I told her not to do. And the teller got suspicious, and they hit the button. And this is, I find out this later. They hit the button. And next thing I know, secret service is knocking at my door. And so the secret circuit to the next day, or maybe the day after, like two days later, they knock on my door and they, and I'm sorry.

That's not how it went. They called me. And they're like, hey, you know, do you know, they're asking me, do I know these people? And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. No, I don't know these people at all. And so they arrested the boy that worked at the bank, but I didn't know this at the time. And he came to my house. They let him go.

He came to my house. And he came to my back. I was in an apartment complex. He came to my back patio. And he knocked on the glass door. Back then, people had sliding glass doors. You know, he knocked on the glass door. And so I opened it.

And I'm like, hey, you know, what are you doing here? This and that, and I had my daughter in my hand. She was one at the time. And my daughter knew him, so he grabbed her. And she went to him, and then he backed up. So I lived in these apartments, but behind my sliding glass door was a big field. Now that I think about it, you know, when I thought about it later, I said he came to the back door because there's no, he didn't come to the front door because nobody could see him at the front door. So there's a big field.

There's a parking lot right here. So he backs up with my daughter in his hand. and he and he backed up like to the middle of the field. And then I got suspicious. And I was like, give her back. You know, I didn't walk out there, but I was like, give her back. And, you know, because we were chit-chatting. And when I took her back and went to house, the secret service called my house number again.

And they said, so you say you don't know him? And I was like, oh, my God, he just set me up. So they were outside. They were looking, watching him come to my house, take my daughter. And they saw him with my daughter. And so. And so I'm like, okay. They're like, okay, do you want to come down here and talk to us now?

So I go, I talk. Long story short, they had already talked to my co-defendants, and they blamed everything on me. And they said I was a mastermind, and, you know, they blamed everything on me. And the prosecutor just said, hey, if you tell us what really happened, you won't get as much time. So I ended up testifying against them. they gave me a year and a half and they got five years apiece. And so, yeah, they gave me a year

and a half. And that's when, that's when that's, that's like, that's my, that's when I, the turning point of my life, because when I got out of jail, I'm 25 or 26. And I'm in the same predicament that I was in when I went. You know, I can't get a job. I don't have any money, you know. And so I didn't stop. I didn't stop. I went back to doing what I normally do. And my probation officer at that time, she was very pissed because she couldn't catch me because I was very smart. So she couldn't catch me.

And she took me back to court on a hunch. She said, I know you're doing something. I don't know what it is, but I think you need to go back to jail. I was like, what? you don't even have anything on me. So the judge agrees with her. Well, before that, they sent me back to the halfway house. You know, when you're a federal prison, you have to do halfway house time.

They sent me back to the halfway house for a couple of months for something that I did. Then they let me back out. And then that happened. Then I had to go back to prison and do six more months. And then, but when I got out of prison that time, I was done. No more probation, no anything. The first time I went to prison, I was in Philadelphia. you on 7th and Arch Street.

And it's a, it's a, that prison was a, a holding facility for men. Yeah, I was there in that facility. Were you there? I got stuck in the shoe there for a month and a half. Yes. Okay, so you know. And then they brought women there to work. And what year were you there?

I was there 2018. Okay, yeah. 2017. Way after me. Yeah, yeah. So, way after me. But, but yeah, so they brought women there. to do the work and the men just were like

in holding you know and so I was there but when I got violated they sent me to where did Martha Stewart go? So in Pennsylvania somewhere? Was it Pennsylvania? The first one was Philadelphia. No for her?

Oh no she heard it's not Pennsylvania it was a where did she go? They call it Camp Cupcake. I cannot remember the name of this prison. But it's in Pennsylvania right? No. It's not in Pennsylvania. Virginia? Virginia is in Virginia. Virginia. West Virginia. Alderson. That's where I went. They sent me to Alderson. And that's where you were for the first prison for the year and a half?

No, I spent a year and a half in Philadelphia. They made you do the whole. Yes. That's terrible. Yeah. And so I used to go to the shoe all the time because I wouldn't comply with the rules. And I really used to do what I wanted to do in that jail. I used to go into the other pods.

I used to sneak into other areas. I used to do, I was like the, I had, the girls used to pay me to send notes to the boys because I worked in the kitchen. And so they used to pay me in commissary to send notes. I had a friend in there and me and her, I got her to work together with me so we can make money while we were in there. And so, yeah. And those officers had enough of me.

So they used to send me to the hole all the time. And then by like the end of it, they used to say, we're not even going to send you because we know you want to go up there. And I say, yeah, I liked being there by myself. I didn't want to be around those people because there, they were sent a lot of the girls from D.C. Where everything you do in D.C. is a federal offense. So they could have jaywalked and they're in here, you know, in a federal prison. And people who, it just used to be so wild and loud and people would try to fight. And I was, no, just I'll go to the shoe by myself. So, yeah. Now going back a second, the whole fax thing, were you guys faxing like a fake wire receipt? Is that what it was?

I just remember it was a paper and it was like a maybe it was a direct, maybe it was a wire. It sounds like a wire transfer that you guys were ordering. So you forged the wire receipt, sent it to the bank and the banker executed it and sent it to her bank. All right, so that makes sense because he approved the wire. He sent it to it. Yes. Okay. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. It was sending papers and everything. I fought so hard to get it off the internet. Like, take this down. Why did you decide to go to wire transfer?

Because that wasn't really your MO. You were always doing just checks. No. I remember I told you that I switched from just doing them. But you had to have people on the inside involved, didn't you? Yeah. So you made connections. So I knew people that worked at banks.

I knew people who could, I started. But after the checks, I started doing credit card fraud. and I knew people that worked places back then. There was no tap machine, no swipe machine. It was a, you put your card on it, it's carpet copy. You know, it would be a yellow and pink paper copy of your credit card information with your address and everything. And I had people that would give me, I would pay them to give me those papers. When I got out of prison, one of the first things I did was adopt my dog boon from the Dawes Animal Welfare.

society. And honestly, that moment changed my life. He was my reminder that second chances are real. Then, just over a month ago, I brought home Bella, our new studio pup, also from Dawes, and she's been nothing but love, energy, and personality ever since. Dawes gave both of them a chance, and right now they're giving all of us a chance to help more animals just like them. From now until December 15th, a foundation is matching every single donation, dollar for dollar, up to $15,000. That means whatever you give instantly doubles, twice the food, twice the medical care, twice a second chances.

And it gets even better. If you sign up to be a monthly donor, that same foundation will give Dawes an extra $100 for every new monthly supporter up to $5,000 total. That means your $20 a month could unlock another $100 gift for the shelter. So if you've ever thought about giving back, this is a moment, this is your opportunity. Whether it's a one-time donation or a small monthly commitment, you're helping save lives. You're helping the next Bella or Boone find their home. Go to daws.org or hit the link in the description of this episode to donate.

Let's give these animals the second chances they deserve because sometimes saving them ends up saving us too. The first time I saw that was in Home Alone when the kid goes to pay with the credit card. And then also, you know, wire transfers. Everything was faxes. People would fax checks to each other, everything. Yes. It was a whole different fall game. Yes.

So it was very easy to, I think about, you know, that movie with Leonardo DiCaprio. Catch me if you can. Yes. So it was very easy to do these types of fraud. Yeah, back then. It was very easy. And so I think about it now. I'm like, I don't even know why my mind went in that direction.

I don't even know why I thought like that. But then I think I'm like, it was a skill. And it's a, you know, there's a way to take those skills and put them in something. legitimate. Like it's, it was a skill. Like, you, I used to call people, you know, my friend would give me the, the, the carbon copy papers, and I would call the people on the phone and say, and get them to give me their social and their birthday over the phone, you know, and so I could do what I needed to do with, I already had their numbers. I just needed their personal information. And, and people would give it to me. Like, I was very convincing. They would give me,

There's information over the phone. Yeah, crazy times. Tell us about this prison hustle you were just describing what the men. Give us the details on that. So because it was men and women in that prison. So the men are upstairs. Women are downstays. People used to talk through the toilet.

I know you saw people do that, didn't you? In Brooklyn. They would take the cracker boxes, make a microphone or megaphone, and they would talk to the toilet. So the first time I saw people doing it, I'm like, what are you doing in the toilet? And they're like, we're pushing all the water. I'm like, and then what?

And so they're like, just listen. And I'm like, oh, my God, it's people. And so they're like, yeah, it's the guys upstairs. And so, so, so in Philadelphia, a lot of the men, they're Muslim, you know, and so that's a, you know, highly populated area. And so anyway, those guys would, they had Ramadan. And during Ramadan, the, they didn't eat until after 6 o'clock.

And so the kitchen staff picked certain girl inmates to go delivering them their food. And so I was one of the ones. And so people would say, hey, tell me what they look like or hey, you know, because you don't know what they look like. Hey, get, get me to get, you know, get a picture of them or whatever. So the guys would send their mail on the food carts as well. They would do it on the food cart. So they would take, I don't know, like a paper, write notes, put pictures, wrap it up, and stick it in a tray, you know, under some food or, you know, underneath the tray. And so the guys would do that.

And then, you know, we would get the cards, take them, take it off, give it to the girls. They would pay us. And then the girls would do the same thing, write notes, send pictures, give it to us. We put it on the carts and send it to send it up with the food cards to the guys. And would they pay you for this? My family never had to send me money when I was in prison. And how much were they paying you for this? They were paying me.

I can't remember. I know it was enough for people not to have to send me money. So I never went hungry. Now, because you said you like to get in trouble and everything, did you ever have any relationships with any of the guards at all? No. So those, so actually, when I got there to Philly, because I was a self-surrender.

So my sister drove me. Poor sis. Like she volunteered. Her and her boyfriend drove me from North Carolina to Philly so I could walk into jail. I never heard anything like that in my life and turn myself in. You're like, people actually do your shit and I'm running. And so I thought about it. I was like, oh, they catch me.

And so I do that. And who was the question you asked me? I think I lost it just that quick. About if you had any relationships with cards. Oh, yeah. So I cry. I get there and I cry. and I cried and I was crying for like two weeks.

And the girls, you know, when I got there, the girls were really nice. They were like giving me stuff because I'm just crying. I didn't even talk. I just cried for two weeks straight. And so it takes about that time before they give you a job. And so they gave me a job in the kitchen. And when I was in the kitchen, I would be crying. I'm making the plates and I'm crying.

I was off of the plate. And so one day two guards. and they were very street, very, like, hood guys from Billy. And they pulled me to the side and to the office in the kitchen. And they're like, you know, they call you by your last name. So like, hey, Arrington, you got to tighten up. But they were cussing at me. And they were like, you got to tighten up.

If these people see you crying in here, they're going to take advantage of you, you know, and so they're like, you know, whatever, don't act like a, don't be acting like a pussy, you know, stuff like that. And so I'm like, what? And the guard, I'm like, I can't believe. these guards are talking to me like this. But from that day, like after that pep talk, I guess, I stopped crying. I was like, I don't want anybody to take advantage of me in here. Like, I just stopped crying. And, but none of them ever tried to, when I used to be in the shoe, when I used to be in the shoe, you know, they have to deliver your food separately when you're in the shoe. So the guards,

they sometimes would stare and, you know, try to flirt and whatever. And I, but I'm, but I'm I'm 25, 26, I'm like, you're old. Like, get away from me, you know, type of thing. So, yeah. Did you have any relationships with any of the women? No, they tried. They tried to come in my room. Like, I am not gay.

So they tried to come in my room several times. And I'm not even, I don't curse. I don't, my family were like big cussers. And I was just, I used to think it was so ugly when I was little. So I was like, I'm never going to curse. So I didn't, I don't curse. And so. And so there, um, so, but that, those times I had to, I like, let a few fly because you're,

get out of here. Like, get out. So I got into fights, you know. Give us a good fight story. I got into fights because, um, people used to try to threaten me. And, um, so this lady was upset about something, some food, the breakfast. I don't even know what it was. was, but she, she did something to me.

I can't remember what she did. I don't know if she pushed me. I don't know if she, she did something. And before I knew it, I just took the brown lunch tray and I just beat her with it. And I think it was more, I think I did it more to teach people a lesson. Like, don't mess with me. But I beat that lady down and they came in the guards, tased me. They tased you?

They tased me. They tased me. And I don't know if you've ever been tased, but when it's, you don't even feel. you don't notice it. Like, and I just dropped. As soon as they tased me, I just fell on the floor. And then they put me in a holding cell, and they're like, you need to cool off.

You know, they left me in this holding cell over like a day, you know, with nothing, I couldn't, nothing. I couldn't brush my teeth. I couldn't wash my face. I couldn't take a shower. Nothing left me in there. And then that was that. But I couldn't not believe those people tased me.

I'm a little girl. Like, I'm little. I'm small, you know? And they're huge people. And they, yeah. When you were in the shoe, would you share a cell with someone? They always had you sell them singly. Yeah.

Lucky you. Like, it was rooms right next to each other. And there would be like an, like events. It almost was like a great, like a vent. And you could see the other person, you know, you could even talk to them. But it was room by myself. What do you think was the worst thing you did in prison? That I did.

To me, I'm like, I'm in prison. So how can any of you? How could I do anything bad in here? You know, me already. But I didn't do, I protested outside of my cell. They had me in one night because they moved a lady into the room and she snored real loud. And I said, I'm not sleeping in here. I can't go to sleep.

And you guys want me to get up at 4 o'clock in the morning to go work in the kitchen. Like, I can't sleep. And they're like, you have to, it's locked, you know, lock down time. You have to go in your room. I said, I refuse to go in here. And I sat on the floor in front of the door. And the captain, they liked me as a person because I was different from everybody. You know, I was very rebellious, you know, but they liked that about me.

And so I just sat on the floor and they're like, are you really just going to sit here? And I'm like, yes. And they said, we know you want us to put you in a shoe. We're not going to do it. I said, well, what are you going to do? And so we went back and forth and then they gave me a new room. Yes. Give me a new room.

So yeah, that's how that would. What did your parents think about you going to prison, especially your mom? So, you know, let me tell you. My mom never once told me not to do the stuff that I was doing. Never not once. And a lot of times when I would get a lot of money, I would take it to her house because it was a lot of money. And I didn't have a bank account, and I didn't want to be walking around with all this

money. and so I would give it to her. And she wouldn't really ask me any questions, but she knew that I was not, she knew whatever I was doing was illegal. And she didn't, I almost feel like she encouraged it. Like she didn't, she never said, don't do this. Never not once.

So when I was in prison, she took my, when I was in prison, my oldest went with her dad back to Florida. My youngest stayed with my mom. my oldest father offered to take my youngest daughter, and I told him no. And I feel like that's the biggest mistake I could have made in my life because my youngest went with my mom, and my mom turned her against me. Like, my mom's a narcissist. And I know people throw that around a lot, you know, these days.

And I never could put a word to how she was until, now, you know, this till now, like the past couple of years. And a lot of times, you know, they say when somebody like that raises you, you end up being the same way or you attract people that are just like her, you know, them. And for me, I just attracted a lot of people who treated me just like men, who treated me just like my mom. So I always, you know, felt like I had to do something for her to. like me. Like I have to do something. I have to be something. I have to give something. I couldn't just be just me. And so, so yeah, a lot of that,

I'm just, it's trauma because that's what it is, you know, it, that was the foundation for me doing what I ended up doing, you know, doing criminal things because I felt like, somebody owed me something, you know, and it was really, I really felt like somebody owed me something. And I didn't, I never could put a finger on what is it that somebody owes me, but I just felt like somebody owed me something. The world maybe owed me. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usa.com slash bundle.

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The Subaru Forester Hybrid. Visit Subaru.com slash hybrid to learn more. Maximum range based on EPA estimated combined fuel economy and a full tank of fuel. Actual mileage and range may vary. Something. And so, yeah. Did your kids know you were in prison at the time?

Yeah. My oldest, she was eight. So she knew that she was living with her father and I wasn't there. And so. Do you think that affected the relationship? She will, she will, she will bend over, she backwards for me right now. Like she's my middle one doesn't talk to me right now. my oldest one will give up her life for me.

I know she will. And so she's, I think she had, she had to, when I got out of, when I got out of, so my oldest daughter's father is a corrections officer in Florida. And he's been one for, I'm 20 years now, like ever since I went to jail. Talk about irony. Yeah. I actually ended up having to go being extradited to Florida one time for like. for like an old check that I got.

And I was in the jail that he works at. He had to give me the money so I could pay off. But he, so I, when I got out of prison, the first time I drove to Florida and I withdrew my daughter out of school, and I took her back to North Carolina. And he called the police on me. And they called me and they said, we will arrest you for kidnapping if you don't bring her back. And so I had to take her back.

And because, you know, he's in law enforcement. The law is on his side. He knows the rules. And so I took her back. And I didn't, she went with him when she was eight. I didn't get her back until she was 15. Yep. Yep.

So you end up getting out and you're on bond. You get your bond revoked and you go back to prison. by this time it's a camp? Yeah, so I did my 18 months. I went to the halfway house. I got out of the halfway house. They revoked that and sent me back to the halfway house for like three months.

So I had to do that. And it was because I had cell phones. I had a car. You're not supposed to have none of that, you know? I had a car. You're in trouble. Yeah, I just never followed the rules. I went and bought a car.

I had a cell phone. I had money. I had, I was, I said I worked here, and I used to be over here, somewhere else. And so I sent me back to a halfway house. And I did three months there, got out, and

then I was still stealing money, basically. And that's when the probation officer was like, I don't know what you're doing, but I know you're doing something, so I'm just sending you back. And then the court and then the judge was like, he said, six months, and I don't ever want to see your face again. He said, I don't ever want to see your face again. I said, okay. He was it six months and then no more.

supervised release? No more. Because I had three years probation, and this was probably into the year and a half of probation. Yeah. And what were you doing just checks again? Or were you doing wire transfers? No. So, Ian, a lot of this stuff I didn't get caught for, you know?

So, I mean, it was just other hustles. You were doing no good things. No good things. All right. So you end up back at prison, but this time they decide to send you to a camp? Yeah, they sent me to Alderson. Do you know why they sent you to a camp this time? Because I'm not a high risk.

You know, like stealing money is not a high risk. Like you're those other, you know, I guess medium security and high security places are, they reserve that for people who are killing people who are violent, who are, you know, drugs. I'm not a drug user. I've never been a drug user, you know, I don't just, I just stole money. I don't get why they didn't send you there to begin with. They should have. Yeah, for the full 18 months.

Well, you know, why? Because I feel like, because when I went to Philadelphia, it was a brand new program. They needed bodies to see if this program was going to work. So that's why they sent a lot of people around that time there. Also, isn't Philly pretty far from North Carolina? Yeah. Yes.

There was no... About eight hours. There was no options. Yeah, there were. There were. But you know what? I didn't want my kids to see me in jail. So they know, I said, don't bring them here.

So I just, yeah. All right. So tell us about this camp. What was that like for you? It was like a college campus. And so, did you ever go anywhere other than Philadelphia? Yeah, yeah, I was all over.

Oh, okay. I was at a few prisons, but I did my last year to camp, and it was like, it was sweet. It was like, cross campus. And so, like, they had, you roam free.

There's an imaginary line that you can't cross, you know? And so, and so I was embarrassed and I was ashamed because when I went there, there were people there

from that, from, you know, a year or so ago. And they're like, what are you doing back here? And I was like, I'm so embarrassed. Like, I'm so embarrassed. So embarrassed. But before they put me there, I only did like one month there because they, they gave me six months.

I did like two months in the county in Charlotte. That was terrible. And then I was like, I can't, I just need them to come pick me up. Please come get me. You know, like federal people, please come get me. and then I did two months there and then the federal authorities came to get me but they took me to like a holding place

in Osilla, Georgia. It's called Oscella, where they wear black and white stripes. Still. This was in 2006, baby. They were still wearing black and white stripes. And so that place was disgusting. It was nasty.

It was unsanitary. The food was nasty. It was, I stayed there for about a month. I'm still friends with a couple of people that I met there to this day, though. And then they sent me to West Virginia. I was there for maybe a month or two in West Virginia. So I wasn't even there that long. Did you get yourself in any trouble over there?

Oh, you stayed out of trouble this time? I was sick of it. So after that, you know, and I got out of West Virginia, like literally. So I think my BOP, if you're looking up, it says I'm, was released in 2009. So that was by now. So this has stretched from 2005 to 2009, four years. You know, oh my God. So I officially released March 23rd, 2009. I had my son, March 23rd, 2010. So I had a kid and my kid's granddad is a preacher and he's a very well-known preacher. and I said,

but it would be so embarrassing to be, you know, you have a grand, you have a son and he's a grandson of a preacher and people, no, and you're going, you know, back and forth to prison. Like, I just, I was like,

I'm not going to do my son like that. So, um, I, um, I, um, I basically stopped. But there were some remnants still lingering, you know, even though I was done. with the federal stuff. So I used to always be scared to get pulled over for anything, like running a light or a stop sign or anything because I'm like, if they run my name, you know, I don't want

any warrants or nothing popping out. And so a couple of times that did happen. You know, I had my son, you know, there was like an old warrant from years and years ago and that I had to take care of. But once that was done, like, I haven't looked back since 2010. What are your official charges on your app sheet for the feds? What do you actually get something? It says conspiracy to commit bank fraud. It was bank fraud. Yeah.

Conspiracy to commit bank fraud. So talk about that rebuilding phase once you, you know, figured out that you're going to stay out of prison and go on this train and arrow. So when I was pregnant with my son, it's always been so, I mean, it had been rough. I still didn't have anywhere to stay. So when I went, when the, when I got violated and I went back for those six months, I had a car, I had an apartment, I had money, and I gave it to someone to hold for me. And when I got home, all the money was gone, the car was gone, the apartment was gone, I'm like, okay. So I had nothing.

And I went to a car. I ended up actually going to a homeless shelter. My oldest daughter was still with her dad. My middle daughter was at my mom's house. And I ended up taking my middle daughter and I'm pregnant with my son. And I went to a Catholic homeless shelter in Charlotte. And I was there. And I remember them telling me that they're like, what do you have and what are you

having? if it's a boy you can't stay here you know so i'm still you like once he's born you have to leave and so um i'm like i'm having a boy so when i know actually at that time i didn't know what i was having i didn't know and so um a friend of mine called that i knew from because i used to be a party girl club scene all this stuff but really by myself i didn't go with the entourage of people i just knew guys that were DJs, promoters, and I really used to hang out a lot. And so one of those guys called me one day and we're talking. He's like, where are you? And I told him where I was. And he was like, pack your things. I'm about to come pick you up. I was like, are you sure?

And he's like, yeah. So he picked me up and took me, let me stay with him while I was pregnant with my son. And I had my daughter. And because me and my son's father, We're not, you know, a thing after that. And so anyway, I ended up going to cosmetology school because I always, even as a child, I could do hair. And so, you know, I would do my friend's hair and things like that. So I said, let me just go to college school. I went, at this time I'm 30 now, go to cosmetology school, get a license, you know,

working to some salons and do some things, you know, in Charlotte. But I felt like, I don't know if it was just me, if it was just a mine thing, but like the city itself was kind of like holding me back, you know. And so I, I, um, I was like, I got to move. Like, I can't stay here. You know, I couldn't, I couldn't get anywhere to stay because I have a, I still, it's a fresh criminal record, you know, I couldn't get anywhere to stay. I couldn't get a job. And trying, I was trying to manage everything while still being a single mom. And so I ended up packing my things into the car that I had and driving to Atlanta. And I've been in a in Atlanta ever since. And Atlanta was probably the best decision in my entire life. Like,

seriously. Immediately, I was able to get somewhere to stay. I was able to get a job. I was able to, you know, enroll my kids in school, take care of my children. And it's just, it's been a good thing. Has your criminal history affected you all at all in life? Even to this day, I know it was so long ago, you know, going on 20 years, has it affected you now? In terms of... Anything, you know, maybe applying for an apartment or a house. Well, yeah. So I, I...

So it came up... So typically, no, because, you know, I didn't know that, like, when you move to a different state, I mean, now it's probably different, but back then, you know, when you moved to a different state, people didn't really check... You know, I never said that I lived in North Carolina. I would put another address somewhere. I never told them because I didn't want them to check anything in North Carolina. And so...

More fraud? Right. Like, you know what they say? Well, when they say list where you live for the past seven years, I will never put North Carolina. I would just, I would never put North Carolina. And so they wouldn't check that state for any, for any behavior. And so, but recent, but for, like in 2020, I applied to rent a house and it came up.

And the people who, the property management, you know, they called me and they said, hey, you know, what happened here? And I said, listen, if you look at the dates, it was about 20 years ago, you know. And, you know, I was a kid and, you know, I have a story that I tell. You know, I say, hey, you know, I was just, I had a bad relationship. and, you know, he made me do things that I didn't want to do, you know, the type of thing. But you know why I said that, though, because when I lived in, when I was, before I, okay, I was in Charlotte, I applied at an apartment complex one time, and it was a kind of like

a subsidized housing apartment complex. And my son at the time was a baby. And I went, you know, you had to have an interview, whatever. So it came up, my background. And so the people who ran that apartment complex, the property management, they're like, or the case managers. It's like, what happened here? And I just looked at the lady and I had my son in my lap and I just looked at her and she said, you were in a bad relationship.

You had an abusive ex-boyfriend and she gave me a story. So I was like, that's exactly what happened. That's exactly what happened. Yes, you're right. And so I just, I use that story all the time, you know. And I, and I, and I, so when people ask me, that's what I told. sell them. Because it happened so long ago, do you think that there are people in your life now that

don't even realize you've ever been to prison? Oh, gosh, yes. There are people that don't know. And I don't say too much about it. Even my own son didn't know for a very long time. And, you know, my daughters knew because they knew I wasn't around with my son. So when he, you know, heard talks, he's like, Mom, what did you do? What did you do, mom?

I'm like, nothing. You know, but, you know, yeah, there's people that have no idea. Do you feel like people that you're close with friends or even coworkers will look at you differently after finding out that you've been in prison? So I used to, I used to feel that way. But I, but people who know me as a person, like, they know me as a person, you know, they know who I am, period. And when, when I go to church, I'm a Christian, I have Bible study groups that I'm in and things like that. And I tell my testimony a lot because it is a testimony. And I tell it a lot.

And most of the time people are shocked. They're like, you? They're like, you? You did what? And then people told me, you know, my whole life ever since I've been involved in that kind of stuff. they're like you don't look like a person who would do these type of things and I used to be like well what does a what does that type of person look like you know because you you think that you know somebody I don't know has to look scary or you know I don't know mean or intimidating to

to to commit a crime no it's just regular people you know and so um the job that I have now you know I have to pass a 10-year background check, but everything comes up. And in the industry that I'm in, they don't care. If it's over 10 years, they don't care. You know? So, and I'm thankful for that because, you know, I was nervous. Like, oh, they're not going to hire me. And it was not even a question.

You know, I didn't even get a question about it. And so, no, I don't care about what coworkers would say because the job knows. They know. You know, they saw it. It was an sense of rap sheet. They saw it. I get embarrassed when I look at it. I'm like, this is a lot, you know, from juvenile, because I used to get arrested as a juvenile for stealing and being a runaway and stuff like that.

So from juvenile, it was like 15 years worth of stuff, you know. And I use it as a talking point. I definitely use it as a talking point. There are a lot of women, young girls. that may not have committed the type of crime, you know, that I've done per se or went to the extreme like me, but they do or have felt the way that I did, which is, you know, the reason that caused me to do these things. So I felt like I should do these things. So it gives me an opportunity to talk to them, which I do a lot to my coworkers, because a lot of them are young and, and share my

story and they're always like oh you know most people that I talk to they say you should write a book because me just telling you this is not even Bonjour compadre it's the Price Line Negotiator How do I negotiate so many great travel deals? My greatest gadget The Price Line app it's got hotel deals flight deals rental car deals all of those deals in a bundle deals

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selection varies by location. See associate or Lowe's.com for details. It's this much, my story, like this much. So, yeah. I think it's interesting when you know you get to know someone without knowing that they've been in prison and you've got to form a relationship, a friendship with them,

and then it's revealed after that they've been to prison because they've already, you know, formed that bond and got to know you before ever having the opportunity to prejudge you. Right. Right. And most of the time, that's how I do it. You know, I let people know me first. And then I tell, you know, tell them, if I choose to tell them, then I tell them. And they're like, wow. You know, like, wow. And but it gets them to thinking, you know, you don't judge a book by its cover. You know, you never know who you're talking to. Who you bumped into. You don't know what people have went through in their life. And it has caused me not to just. judge people either because I used to be real bad about that, you know, like, you know, turning, frowning at people and you just, you can't do that, you know? Now go back in time to your teenage self, what advice would you give her today if you're sitting across from her, the person you are now? You want to make me cry? I would tell her that you are beautiful. Like, a lot of things that happened was because I,

I felt like I wasn't. And so I felt like I had to perform to be light. And that started at home. And so I just took that out into the world with me. So I felt like to have a friend, I had to do things for them. I had to have a boyfriend. I had to do things. I had to prove that I'm worth having a friend or having a boyfriend or having anything.

And that is not the truth. You know, that's not the truth. That's not the truth at all. So I would tell her that keep being you. I was very, I was spoken as a child. I was getting trouble a lot because, because, like, my parents, well, my mom and, like, my grandma, they would smack me in the mouth because I always spoke my mind. And I'm like, you know, that kind of teaches you to be quiet and not speak your mind.

But I never stopped speaking my mind. So that just pissed them off even more. And, you know, recently, sort of recently my mom told me that, you know, she wished that she was more like me. And it makes sense now why she would be that way, towards me is because she wished that she would like me, you know, she wish she was like me. She wish she was the strongest me. She wished that, you know, she spoke her mind like me and that people listened to her, you know, because people listen to me. So I would just have to tell

her that you keep speaking your mind. You, you know, you keep reading. I was a very avid reader as a child, you know, and I had a, I used to write poems and I had this big imagination and, you know, that imagination will get you somewhere, you know, in life because ideas come from your imagination, you know, and so I would tell her that she's just perfect the way God made her. So, yeah. Have you and your mom been able to rebuild your relationship? No. We don't speak.

And when I try to speak to, when I try to. And she's only that way with, there's five of us, she's only that way with me and my older sister, but she treated us worse. So I really feel, I give her grace because I know that she feels bad for how she treated us, you know, me and my sister, but my sister's not here, so I'm talking about me. You know, I know she feels bad about it, but she's so prideful that she can't say. I did this, I did this, I did this, you know, and, and, or she acts like she doesn't remember things she said or did. And so, you know, but I've, I have compassion and I have reached out

to her and I've tried to talk. But you know, sometimes when, you know, people feel, I really think she feels ashamed and she doesn't know how to accept that I can forgive her. I don't think she knows how to accept that. So we don't talk. Do you think you'll ever rebuild that relationship? I mean, she's 70. She's turning 70 in January. I'm like, mom, like, you got less time in front of you than you do behind you, you know? So she caused my daughter not to speak to me, you know, by telling my daughter a lot of things my daughter didn't know about what I, things I've done and stuff, but she told my daughter, you know, things that had no relevancy. She turned my sisters away from me.

My younger sister, my next to the youngest sister, we don't speak. Like, my mom is divisive in front of, she divided all of her children. So I only speak to my older sister. And so, and there's five of us. So, I mean, there's not much I can do. about it. You know, I try. I reach out. I try, but I have reached out. Let me say that. And I just go on about my life. You know, it sucks, though, because my kids, my kids, they always, well, my oldest daughter and my son are always like, mom, you know, you really don't have any

family, you know, we don't, we don't have, you know, our grandma, we don't, and I'm like, I'm sorry. Like, I don't, I'm doing the best I can. Yeah. Well, Najla, I appreciate you coming on the show today. Thanks so much for opening up and sharing your story with us. Thank you. And I wish you the best in the future. Thank you so much, Ian. Yeah, thank you. All right.