Locked In with Ian Bick - How I Got Busted for Buying Illegal Goods on the Dark Web | Alex Diamond

Episode Date: May 4, 2025

Alex Diamond explains how he got involved in buying illegal goods on the dark web, the moment it all went wrong, and how law enforcement tracked him down. #DarkWeb #CyberCrime #IllegalTrade #OnlineFraud #LawEnforcement #UndercoverOps #HackerLife #crimenetwork Connect with Alex Diamond: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/1GbWXCEpef/?mibextid=wwXIfr Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://convictclothing.net/collections/convict-clothing-x-ian-bick Timestamps: 00:00:00 Growing Up in Long Island and Jewish Heritage 00:03:18 Navigating Public School Challenges 00:06:47 The Early Days of Online Communities and Social Engineering Scams 00:10:30 Transition to Vocational Training and Hospitality 00:14:03 Navigating High School and Peer Pressure 00:17:34 Navigating College Decisions and Struggles 00:21:03 Discovering Dubstep and Its Impact 00:25:00 Navigating the Dark Web and Its Risks 00:28:12 Navigating the Dark Web with Bitcoin 00:31:40 Making a Mark in the Music Industry 00:35:10 The Rise and Fall of Club Culture in Connecticut 00:39:01 The Crazy Moment of Realization 00:42:37 Navigating Felony Charges and Legal Outcomes 00:46:10 Navigating the Prison System in America 00:49:52 The Remarkable Journey of a Young Immigrant 00:53:24 Overcoming Challenges and Aspiring for a Music Career 00:56:51 Embracing Past Mistakes as Life Lessons Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Wayfair, every style, every home. Alex, welcome to Locked in, man. Thank you, thank you. Pleasure having you today. Thank you for having me, dude. You're from New York, right? Yes, New York. And you grew up in New York?

Yeah, I grew up in Long Island my whole life. I was born in a town called Smithtown. It was my family lived on the border of a place called Comac, and that's where I was born and raised. Yeah, I worked in Comac for a little bit. Oh, cool, cool, cool, cool. I kind of hopped around when I was living in Mass of Hequa for a little bit. Yeah, I think Comac Whole Foods was like the first whole foods in Long Island when they first started coming in this way from West Coast. But then

I was born there and then spent most of my childhood and more out east. Okay. Is that a nice area? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Suffolk County is pretty much, you know, like people don't even realize is that Suffolk County actually has the most paid cops in the whole entire country.

Really? Yes. So when they come out, fresh out, you know, they're getting paid like six figures plus like Suffolk County cops. And you have to like score like a 98% like something or whatever on the test to even like be considered. How do you find out about all those? Are you just interested or?

Well, no, it's just common knowledge in Suffolk. You know, just, you know, a lot of people or they feel protected and stuff like that. And, you know, number one, the cops. Who do you grow up with? I grew up with my parents and stuff, you know. I had a really, you know, great childhood. You know, a big part of my identity is, you know,

my Jewish upbringing. I really owe a lot of like who my identity is, you know by being Jewish and um you know I spent a lot of time in Jewish sleepway camp and just growing up in that kind of environment and you know temple and just like you know just fun fun memories of stuff like that or you guys like fully Jewish both your mom and your death yeah so it's pretty interesting because like you know we can trace my family's Jewish lineage for years and years and years and it's like even funnier because on my dad's side you know their parents were Hasidic and you know their their grandparents were And they were just like, you know what, we're done.

We don't want to be acidic anymore. And, you know, we're becoming our own form of Judaism and stuff. And it was pretty cool to see, you know, my family's first iteration of that. Did you have any siblings? Yeah, I have one sibling, one brother. What'd your parents do for work? So my mom, she was a nurse. She's a nurse.

And then my dad, he had a bunch of businesses he started with his brothers and family and stuff. He had a comic book store, a video store that was like pretty much the model before Blockbuster was around. So he kind of had that in Brooklyn. and yeah just like a lot of you know I guess entertainment in my life you know my house always filled with like you know comic books video games movies you know I was very avid with like you know computers and you know I learned how to use a little old computer before I could even you know learn how to write or you know that's how I learned how to write

and you know just entertainment and technology was at the forefront of my house when I was a little kid yeah that must have a really fun childhood yeah no and like you know I didn't realize set, I think for a while, like, how spoiled I was when I had all of these, like, you know, video games that came out or whatever day they came out, you know, and just getting them or, like, you know, seeing these new movies or having everything. It was just like, you know, it was a lot of entertainment. And then I think at one point I was just like, okay, I'm a little entertained out, you know, and started branching more out and doing more like, you know, fun stuff.

Yeah, you probably didn't grow up ever really struggling, I'm guessing. Well, you know, at a point where we did, you know, and that goes deeper on to the the story and it's just that like, you know, you realize that, you know, and I think I learned that a lot, you know, in life is that you don't realize how lucky you are until, you know, you don't have it. And I think that, you know, people every day in life, they don't realize what they have. And it sucks because, you know, you don't realize these things until they're gone. Yeah, that's great. Did you go to public schooling? Yeah. So I went to public school, you know, and when I first, so when I moved to a new public school,

It was like, you know, I'm getting starting into middle school and stuff like that. And it was really tough because, you know, I didn't know anyone from my previous school. So, like, I'm in a new environment and everything. Like, I don't know any kids from grades beforehand or whatever. You know, like, so it was really tough at first to kind of like make connections with other people and just kind of get a groove. Were you ever bullied? Yeah. Yeah, extremely.

You know, it's just like, you know, a lot of time, you know, I was bullied for being. Jewish, bullied for being the new kid, bullied for just not knowing or just, you know, existing. And I think I had a lot of like teen angst of like, you know, with myself and my environment. I was like, you know, one of those like, ah, kids. And definitely, definitely did get me into trouble at points, you know, got into a lot of fights and stuff like that. But, you know, one thing about me that people know me is unapologetically myself. You know, like I'm not going to just, you know, tone down for anyone or, you know, I'm going to

speak my mind always. So I feel like that got me in trouble a little bit here and there, but, you know. Well, that's a great quality to have. Yeah, I think so. I think so. So what were your like aspiration goals, you know, what you wanted in life when you were in high school if you hadn't any? So like, you know, when I was, you know, in middle school high school, I think I was starting to get more into technology. You know, I'm always a, you know, a futurologist.

I love, you know, anything future. You know, I even back then, like, you know, we're all talking about. Now, I was playing with AI stuff when I was like in middle school, high school. There was this program that all the, you know, schools had. It was called Eliza, Eliza, whatever. And it was basically like an AI prompt. You could just talk to it and just you'd speak to it. How was your day?

It would spit you back. You could do simple math questions. Like, you know, I was doing homework on it after school. Like, all stuff and stuff like that. And, you know, I kind of wanted to get into the technology field. You know, I had a really cool classes in like AutoCAD and stuff like that. middle school and high school. So that was like kind of like my aspiration. But also, you know, I was really big in gaming. Um, I used to play like internet MMORPG games like when

I was young like Neo Pets and Roomscape and World of Warcraft and tons of games like that. Because like what it was is that if I couldn't find a physical placement of like kids to play with without fighting or getting into trouble or something happening, I could find it online. You know, so that's what I kind of started to do. And when I realized that, like, you know, I'm not making friends, so let's make them online. You know, and then, you know, that kind of gravitated me towards, like, you know, maybe this is the goal to do something with computers or, you know, just stuff like that. Neopets, that was a throwback, man.

No, Neopets was so much fun because I was like, you know, you could literally build a whole entire, you know, like MySpace directory of, like, your layout of your site. You know, you could buy special items, trade them and all that. And that was like the first time that I ever saw, like, I guess, online community, you know, community in general. And little did I know that that would have, like, such impact on me, you know, because, like, one day I'm playing the game, just scrolling, playing. And I think I had my account for, like, three or four years at this point.

So I'm just playing. And then I see a message on the trading board that says, hey, I need someone to watch my neopets. I'm going to give a million coins or whatever to the person watching my pets. So I messaged the person right away, says, I got nothing better to do. I'll watch your pets. Press and response right away.

It says, okay, great. I need to see how you treat your pets, though. Could I log into your account? You know, send me the password. And they had password blockers or whatever. And in my head, I'm just like, oh, you know, I'm naive. Like, he just wants to check out my pets, you know, whatever. Logs into my account.

Scams everything. And I'm just like, what the heck just happened? And that's the day I realize that, like, you know, the power of trickery and social engineering and that like, you know, the internet is in such a safe place. You know, even for anyone just trying to have fun. So that was like kind of like a wake up call. Like, whoa.

And that kind of foreshadows the path you would end up. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And it was just that like I realized I think that and in my life too, I always have like, I guess, knowledge is of like, oh, I would have handled that different. Oh, that would have handled that. But there's always a light to the dark, I think, in a sense. and it's just that like even with, you know, anything you do, you know, you have to realize that it's being shadowed.

And like, you know, what you're doing in life is generalized of, you know, how you handle it. And that's why I was like, whoa, what the heck is going on with, you know, with my life at this point. What do you think, what did your parents think of your aspirations, you know, using the computer and the internet and whatnot? Because I don't think that was really their background, right? So, yeah, so, like, actually, like, my dad, he started doing, like, online work at the point. I think it was, like, in the mid-2000, let's say, like, 2004 or five around then, like, computers were becoming more mainstreamed with, like, tablets and stuff like that. So, like, my dad was really big on the forefront with e-books and things like that. So he was, he had his own online store selling e-books.

And, you know, that was, like, my aspirations of, like, hey, like, you know, finding online communities, building, you know, like, I used to be big on, like, online forums and stuff like that. So I would find, you know, other, like, communities of people playing games and be like, hey, you know, let's trade or sell items and stuff. Or there'd be other games, for instance, I used to be really big into the four call of duty. It was called America's Army. I never heard of that.

So basically, long story short, the Army basically made a game to recruit people to, you know, potentially join the Army. So it was like a super, super, super, super realistic game. You know, you would do everything that normally army people would do, you know, like recon, the medics. Every single thing was 100% accurate. So I used to play that a lot. And I then realized that like a couple of my forms that I used to be involved in started like changing and they started going more towards like, you know, serious games like, you know, World of Warcraft, Roomscape, things like that. like, all right, let me join these forms.

So what happens next? Do you graduate high school? Do you end up going to a college? So yeah, basically, long story short, you know, I went to, you know, a high school wasn't really working that out for me. And I was getting into even more fights and stuff like that. So they went me to an alternative school. And that's where I went to like a BOSIS. And it's like a vocational training and I went to hospitality there. And, you know, at that point, you know, It was like my aspirations of like what I want to do in life are all over the place. And just like my teen angst got even worse. You know, like unfortunately my mom had like cancer at the time.

And it's just like I'm getting kicked out of my high school to go to another program. You know, I'm like so much is going on in my life with my personal life, my family life and everything. I'm just like, uh, you know, I'm just going to take it out in the world. And I'm happy. And when I look back that I had an outlet to learn, um, like, you know, hospitality, like in a new environment. It was really something refreshing. So what's like the defining moment where you kind of turned down a different path?

So basically, long story short, around that time, I started joining different communities, different forms of people. I learned how to, you know, hone in on my skills with, like, you know, the video games into, like, cheating on the video games and stuff. Like, you know, helping people bot or, like, trading online currency. like for real money, which we're really not supposed to do in the games like that. So I would be selling like World Warcraft like coins and stuff to other people. And like I remember at one point, I was getting like money orders in the mail like every other day from this guy that I met on World Warcraft like exchanging.

And my mom would just take me to exchange the money orders. And then one day, you know, we're exchanging money orders. And the mail lady's like, this one's fake. Oh my God. We're taking it. And my mom's like, let me just grabs it and just starts running. And she's like, is this fake? I'm like, no, it's not.

Like, just go to another one. I guarantee it's going to cash and it cash. So then I, you know, I stopped doing that for a little bit. And then, you know, like at that time, too, you know, I'm just like giving up on high school. You know, I'm just like, look, like, I'm making money on these video games and stuff, like serious money at the time. So it's like, what do I need to be doing focusing on this, you know, when I have a career path that I want to do. I want to be into, you know, technology. and just figuring out what's the next bigger thing like that.

And I think one of the most craziest times that I would admit was, you know, I used to tamper with, you know, the game, the America's Army game. And one day I'm just in class, normally just hanging out. And I get, you know, the call from the teacher, somebody calls a teacher. And they basically like, hey, you know, come to, you know, the guidance counselor. I'm like, great again. so I'm waiting for the guidance counselor and then all of a sudden

two counter intelligence army people walk into the building like into the room and are like hey are you Alex Stein we need to speak to you and I'm like oh man like what is what is going on wow so what ends up happening so basically

so basically long story short you know someone that I was playing in America's Army with like was using some of my cheats like in school and they got caught using them and the person asked who who's giving you these cheats or whatever and then that person told told on me and boom bunch of and that was serious enough for the army to get involved yeah because this was like a game developed by the army okay so they they want to know everything and like the funniest thing I remember is like my guidance counselor being so

interested like why is there two like you know I think they're called like CID officers or whatever, like, why is there two, like, CID officers inside my school? And they're like, you know, you have to, excuse me, let me just speak to Alex real quick. Yeah. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough.

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So what happens after that? So, you know, they just gave me a warning. They're just like, look, they can't even arrest people. I think they just wanted to know how I did it. And literally they said, like, you know, when you get older, hit us up. But, you know, that's when I think I started getting into the wrong crowd. little bit more. You know, it's like, I realize that like, this is all fun in games, but it's just fun. You know, there's nothing like, you know, I needed, you know, other people I saw my age,

you know, we're getting girlfriends or like, you know, applying for colleges or looking what wanted to do it. And I'm just like me, you know, and it was tough. It was tough. And then I think later on, I started finding more of my groove. And, um, high school was, it was, it was, you know, an experience that I won't forget, but I think, like, when I have kids one day, I'll just, you know, tell them like, hey, look, you just do you, you know, and don't worry about anything else. Do you think feeling like an outcast kind of made you, you know, get into the trouble that you would later get into? Yeah, definitely. And I think also not being in, like, only being an outcast got me into trouble, but it also made me naive to joining people and stuff. And that's

where I think a lot of trouble happens to people. Like, you know, whenever you're ever, hear your parents say don't get caught in the wrong crowd or like, you know, don't hang out with that person. They're saying it for a reason. I'm not just saying it because they don't like that person or whatever. They're saying it because they care for you. They don't want you doing it. So I feel like that started to happen a little bit. You know, I think like that's when I first started like, you know, I love weed, but I first started smoking weed, you know, is like, you know, a 13, 14 year old smoking weed, you know, and just being more of that, you know, rebellious, like trying things, you know,

normally like, you know, I would never be caught at a house party. I was like, you know, well, I just try to go to a house party. What are they going to do? Kick me out, you know? Hey, they let me in, you know, started drinking and, you know, just doing all the things, you know, a teenager, a little kid would do, you know. And I think at one point I'm just like, this isn't me. I'm just doing this to do this to, you know, have the teenager experience,

but this is totally not me. Yeah, you want to fit in. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's like the overall line of like, you know, my high school or school career was just trying to fit in, you know, because like, you know, I would see just so many different types of, you know, the jocks, the preppy, you all, you know, we had it all. So it was kind of like, where's mine, you know, and that's where video games led in. And that's where I had my core group. We were the nerd group, you know. So that's like, at least I was known for

something. So I'll take it. Hey, nothing wrong with being the nerd group. Exactly, exactly. So, where do you go from there? So, you know, um, Long story short, you know, I'm in this hospitality program for the rest of my high school career. So I'm going into regular classes like half the time and then going into culinary, you know, we're doing baking. We're doing, you know, setting up like banquets and just learning about, you know, foodborne illnesses and just like morale and all this and stuff like that. And I really thought for a while I wanted to, you know, have a hospitality career. and, you know, the school basically had connections with, like, a technical school. And basically they came in with their person and they were like, look, hey, you know, we're going to give you grant money to, you know, go to school and all that.

And, you know, just come on in. And, like, you know, I didn't even really want to go to college or anything. And just my parents were so adamant, like Alex needs to look at going to college. You're this technical school. This is like, you know, you didn't apply to anything. You didn't put yourself. You didn't even take the SATs. You know, like, just do it.

And I think it was like kind of a thing, like my parents getting like, okay, we're going to get them out of here. But, you know, I think it's so important nowadays to just, you know, plan ahead. And reluctantly, I just went to this technical school. And then what happens? Do you get in trouble there? So the technical school, it was like, it was actually Lincoln College in New England. It was actually, they shut it down a couple years ago, like five, six years ago.

What was it called Lincoln Tech? Yeah, Lincoln Tech. They closed down? I would always see commercials for them. Yeah. So basically what it was, it was just like a scam school. They would just take the money that they would get in two seconds from the government for you going to school for your loans. And it's like they're leaving you in a dorm with a whole bunch of people from New England to go nuts. And it's like what did you expect to happen?

You know, it's like they're having ragers in the woods. You know, it was right across street from like six flags like New England. So like, you know, we're going to six flags every day. I'm skipping classes. you know, I'm just like having a muck. And, you know, it's just like they're keeping, they want the payments, you know. So they're just like rolling it in with like, you know, just keeping you in this environment of just, again, like, you know, people trying to be serious with their life. But also at a point where it's like, you know, you could just joke around and be a silly guy.

And I feel like I didn't want to be there. So I was just like taking the most of my time and just, you know, like just selling weed. just hanging out, just being my, you know, having fun. But it's like one day it just totally ended. And I think like I really, like at one point, like the guy at an office meeting with the dean, like, do you want to do this or not? And I was like, all right, I'll do this. Like, I'm going to finish school.

Because I only had like, you know, a little bit left. I was there for like about a year and a half. I think I had like another like eight, nine months or something like that. So it wasn't anything crazy. And I'll never forget the day. So like, you know, there really isn't much to do in New England besides, you know, like at the time for a little kid, besides smoke weed and go to the mall. And so that's what we did. So we're just doing a blunt cruise.

And we go to the mall or whatever. And I hear a song on the radio. It's an Afrojack song. And the Afrojack is the house artist. But the drop was dubstep. And I was like, what the hell is this? Like, what is this? Like, what is this sound?

This is like 2011, 12. I'm like, what is this sound? And my friend's like, oh, that's dubstep. You never heard a dubstep? I'm like, no. Like, what's a dubstep? Like, you know, I've heard of, of, you know, bass music before because we would have all bass music that we would flex in the cars back home.

But I was like, what is this? So he was like, oh, I have a whole tape of dubstep music. And the rest of the ride, we played Skrillix, nice sprites. and my life was changed for I was like, what is this? I need to know everything about this, like, up and down of what this type of music is. Yeah, I remember that era, you know, because that's when I was first exposed to a 2011 that translated me into doing those club nights here at the teen nights because we would mix electronic dance music, you know, with like hip hop and whatnot.

And it really blew up. It was at that time period. Yeah, and like I think also too around that time is like you have to realize is that like New England music, like you guys had like Sammy Ad, and like all these other people and like, you know, like French Montana, all these like, like, Wiz Khalifa, Mac Miller, all these like, you know, in between rappers and stuff. And then I was like, I'm not trying to be like, I want to listen to what's the forefront of music at this time.

That was, you know, Dupstep. And I was just like, whoa. Like, this is insane. Yeah. That's awesome. So then what happens after that? So basically, you know, I leave college. you know I'm just like this is this is the word you know I really didn't have any

aspirations or anything like that and one of my good friends knew that I was coming back home she's like look you know I know you're bummed out about everything but it's gonna be all right you know we'll just I'll take you out to Webster Hall that was like I've never been there at the time and you know I really wanted to go like around that time you needed to be over 21 to go like 19 or older I'm to go there so like by the time time that I was going towards college, I was like 18 or whatever, so I wasn't 19, but the time I was coming back, I was of age. So my friend took me to Webster Hall for the first time.

I saw a sub focus there. And it was just like, again, such an experience was like not like hearing it, but actually physically being there, you know, inside a club, you know, seeing all these people, just having fun, dancing, expressing themselves in different ways, just being themselves. And it was like so beautiful to me just to see like a crowd just out there and just having fun and just like that raw organic moment. And since then, I've been chasing that since. And it was just like such a vivid experience to be, you know, at a place where I could dance and listen to the music and feel free for once. Like truly feel free. Did you start dabbling into other drugs because of that environment?

So, you know, it's funny because, you know, at that point, it's like, Like, you know, let's just say it's like 2013. And I'm just like so amazed by club culture, like amazed by it. And I'm figuring out now like, screw the technology stuff. It's the club stuff I want to get into. Because, you know, I had like a couple weeks before the club stuff, I had a meeting with actually Gary Vaynerchuk's team about discussing selling, like, starting a firm to start selling this online gold or like all nine games and stuff

um to different people and then i had a meeting with gary b's team they're like bro we can't do this this is violates the terms of service to all these video games so it was nice meeting you but good luck you know and i'm just like damn like it's this is like i want to be whatever this is you know i want to be whatever clubs are so um i think that year the first time i ever got experience to Webster Hall, I did like 100 plus shows. And I realized that like, hey, if I don't have technology dreams, it's going to be whatever this is. So I started, you know, mixing or meeting other kids and other people and, you know, just realizing that like, look, like these people that are having these environments, there's people that are out there for the music. There's people

that are obviously out there to sell nefarious things. There's people that are out there. to have fun, you know, all these different things of what makes people out there. And I'm trying to just learn a new environment to fitting in. I'm actually fitting in for once. So it was like, what do I do to fit in more, you know? So I started, you know, meeting people that knew I was good with computers and stuff like that. And they were kind of like getting me on the side trying to convince me, be like, hey, do you know anything about the dark web? Do you know anything about this?

Do you know anything about that? And I was like, no, I don't know anything about that. for a while. And tell the audience what the dark web is for the individuals that might be older and don't know what it is. So the dark web was like, you know, I'd say a period, and still is around, but it was a period of time when, you know, internet, you could literally buy anything online by obscure means, like, you know, getting them shipped through the mail or just whatever you could think

of on a secret community forum. And that was like really prevalent around the time around that. Kind of like the Silk Road was a part of it. that too. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. So when they approach you about if you knew anything about the dark web, what happens next? So how do you react to that? It was just like, at that point, I was kind of titter-tottering of like what I want to do. Do I want to like be in the hospitality industry? Do you want to be in, you know, the music industry? Like, what are my aspirations going forward? So I wasn't too reluctant on helping people like with that. So I was kind of like,

you don't want to do that. You don't want to be a part of that. And then, I realized quickly, like, you know, this is my only way to fit in with these kids is to kind of like kind of help them. And I thought that these people were my friends and, you know, it's like, that was one of my stupidest decisions ever is to think that these people were like friendly with me. And what did they have you do? So, you know, I would just, you know, help them figure out where, sorry. Sorry, you guys said again, sorry. What would they have you do? So basically, you know, long story short, I would, you know, help people look for on these forms, like, without getting scammed because there were so many different websites where you could, like, try to order

something, it would be someone scamming you and stuff. So I'd help them try to figure out, like, these are the good people to get whatever you wanted. And, like, I'll help you properly do it if you pay me and just, you know, put me into your good graces, you know. And because, like, at that point, there was a lot of people that had their own inspirations or aspirations in the music industry. So it was kind of like a culture of like, you know, people around me are just doing whatever to, you know, get people to know them and stuff. So like, this is my chance for people to know me. And that was like really stupid of me because I had at that point, like, organic ways that people were starting to know me.

I was throwing these massive free parties before the actual party and these artists were like loving it. And they were like, oh, hey, you know, could you plan this for my whole entire tour? You know, that was like amazing. Like a big artist came up to me and was like, yo, this was an amazing party. Can you plan it for another 15 of them? And it was just like I could have took that opportunity, but I was too busy like trying to mingle with people's opinions that, you know, it didn't even matter. I was like just trying to impress the wrong people. So these individuals were looking for drugs, elicit goods, that type of thing?

Yeah. And you were just basically navigating the dark web for them, showing them who is an announcement. showing them who is an actual legitimate seller on the dark web. Correct. And like another thing too is that like you just can't message someone on the dark one and be like, hey, I need this. You know, you would have to have it encrypted with a PGP key. So only you and that person would be able to encrypt that communication.

It was like when Bitcoins and stuff were first coming out. So like you'd have to get Bitcoin like, you know, and buy it and transfer it and Tumblr, do all these certain things. It wasn't just like, you know, you're going on to Amazon.com to buy something. Yeah, you had to use Bitcoin back then. right? Yeah. To purchase things on them?

Okay. That was one of the main reasons why Bitcoin got started. Well, no, like, you know, a lot of, it's interesting, too, is that, like, in Futurology, a lot of, like, people who started these coins and stuff like that, they wanted to create, you know, something that's decentralized or that no one could trace or, like, be a part of. And that's, like, opposite of what's totally happened today is they develop systems to totally trace these things and stuff. But it was coming to a point where, like, you know, they need to be.

to make something future proof. Now, if you had never used the dark web before this time period, how do you know how to navigate it? Well, because on the forms I was in, a lot of, like, people would talk and have discussions on it. They were talking about Tor and, like, all these other things. And, like, that's how I would wind up getting those connections and stuff with it. So this was, like, kind of, like, a big point in the forms and stuff,

because even us, we were thinking of adapting Bitcoin for us to trade, you know, the NeoPoints, or all the World Warcraft coins or whatever. And it was just like, oh, I thought it was the stupidest thing ever. Like, I was like, this is dumb, but I guess I was wrong. Now, you weren't actually taking money from people. You were just pointing them in the right direction. So that's the thing. So, like, I kind of realized that, like, I wasn't getting, like, these kids weren't listening or whatever. I wasn't, like, getting my percentages. So I started doing it for them, you know, and just, like, whatever they wanted. You know, they'd come to my house.

And I'd just be like, okay, like, log onto my computer. Like, we'll just make the order and that's it. And where would it be shipped to? Your house? So I started, like, I got my own place a little bit, like, like about a town away. And they would ship it to that. And I would have them come pick it up. I didn't even, half the time, I was just like, I don't even want to know.

Just like, here, just pop it in and then take it away. Did you know the risks involved at that time? or are you just so, you know, kind of obsessed with wanting to fit in and being liked? It's just, yeah, I just wanted to be so obsessed with wanting to fit in being liked, you know? It's just like, you know, I'm so enamored with like this culture, this lifestyle of like going to raves and partying. And, you know, this whole entire thing. It was just like my new personality. And like, you know, I started meeting more and more people going to more and more shows and just like, you know, started making a name for myself, I think, like, you know, for my aunt.

of like, you know, even with my pre-games or like, you know, even my after parties, a lot of time as I would get, like, at the time, you know, we call it like festival season. It's from usually from around, I guess, March till about September about, I'd say, is like festival season. So around that time, you know, a lot of people are traveling going to festivals and stuff like that. So I would get hotel blocks at these hotels. Like I would book a room of like 30 rooms. and get a corporate rate and then charge everyone like $25 or $30 more when they booked it through me. So, you know, I started doing that a lot of the season and traveling more and just like trying to figure out like, like, how do I make an attack in the music industry? And that's when I started my own little management firm. I started representing these other DJs and little things like that. And I had no idea what I was doing. It was just like a clout game of like just trying to be, you know, something bigger. Because that's what all the other people were doing.

It's like they're, you know, they're starting these little management clicks, these little, you know, things that they're doing so people know them. And that's when I was like... Pool days call for cookouts and lots of laundry. This Memorial Day at Lowe's, save $80 on a Charbroil Performance Series 4-burner-dast grill. Now just $199. Plus, get up to 45% off select major appliances to keep dishes, clothes, and food fresh. Having fun in the sun is easy with us in your corner.

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do you think that the award of being liked and accepted outweighed the risk of doing these types of transactions? to be honest with you, I wasn't even looking at the risk. I knew there was risk, but I wasn't looking at it. And it's just that, like, the reward is so much important. It wasn't even the money. Like, even I was making money, but it wasn't even the money. It was just, like, people knowing about me, being liked, respected, and having a path where I could make my own. And that's, I think, the downfall of it all is just, like, realizing that, like, look, these people are just people you see at the club.

They're not friends. they just know you and that's it. How much would you get for a transaction? So, you know, it wasn't anything light. You know, like you would have to come with me with a lot of money for me to do this, you know, because it was obviously risky. So, you know, it was like for the bigger people that were doing it outside the club. And a lot of ways that I met people outside the club was I had a side hustle inside of Webster Hall.

So I would go there. Like, I'd be so excited to go to the club. I'd be out there like 8 o'clock. Party don't start until 11 o'clock. I'd be there at 8 o'clock outside, just hanging. Like, you know, just smoking jays, just drinking down the street. And I would be there so early, and I noticed that, like, there'd be people coming there, you know, early and just looking at the lights and trying to find the bottle guy to buy a table. And I realized, like, wait a second, I have something here.

So I would wait in front, like, where the bottle person was and try to get their attention before they went to the bottle person and arbitrage a bottle. So I would say to them, hey, it's $400 or whatever, and only cost $300. So I'm pocketing 100 and getting them a table. And if I sold X amount of tables, I'd get my own table. And then if I didn't feel like drinking that night because I was already drunk or whatever, I'd sell it. So that's what I did for many years in front of Webster Hall. And I just started meeting more and more people from out of town, more and more people who just wanted my services. of either bottles getting them in the club or just helping them online or whatever they needed.

I'm surprised that you actually, I forgot what it was going to say for a second, I'm surprised that you never came to Tuxedo Junction during that time period because we had those big X. That's so funny. It's really funny because I never went to Tuxedo Junction because it was like, I never, I was like, I never want to go back to New England ever again. but it's not that I definitely did hear of you back in the time because that was like we had there was like

I feel like Tuxedo Junction was trying to replicate what New York City and what the vibes were well we were the Webster Hall of this area exactly exactly because you would have Foxwoods I would do the big shows but we were like that nitty gritty Webster Hall type you know some acts would play Webster Hall the next day like when we had blower and then we had like Liquid Stranger we had all of these different names Yellow Claw, that would have been right up your alley.

Yeah, no, exactly. And like, it was funny because, like, when you realize that, like, you're in the circuit, like, I like to say that you're, you know, people are traveling from all over the country to come to your party or whatever, you're seeing that. That's when I felt at home, you know, and that's when, like, I really started, like, feeling, like, for the first time ever, like, I have a friend group. I believe, not even really a friend group, I belong to something. and like I was so naive I thought everyone was my friend

and I kind of realized that like look like you know this club culture could be a little tiny like sticky it really wasn't like that's when it started showing its cracks a little bit so do you get caught running this operation or do you get away with it and you know live to fight another day what happens so you know long story short You know, I'm just like, you know, the glimmers of the life are starting to crack. I'm just like, I'm starting to get more traction. More people starting to know me.

My artists are starting to get serious bookings. You know, I'm making more of a name for myself here and there. And it's just like, I want to stop doing this. This is just so stupid. I'm just like, like, I'm done with this. And I told a couple of the people like, look, this is your last drop. This is it. We're done.

And they were like, okay, whatever. you know, that's it. And one day I'm at my house, just hanging out, normal morning, normal morning, wake up, you know, mailman's about to come. You know, a person who's coming for the stuff is like an hour away. So I just get dressed and I hear it ring on the doorbell, go to the doorbell, answer it. And right away, like, it wasn't the normal mailman. It was just some like regular guy It was like the first red flag

And I just Start signing And then the mail truck was on the other side Of the road Not normal like normally it would go down this way It's like on the other side Like I'm just like okay You know not thinking of it

And what I would do was you know Depending on whatever somebody would order I would just open it up first Because like the last thing I wanted here It's like we got scammed or whatever So I'm just opening it up So open up the box And notice the contents are loose

and I just look down and look up and then all of a sudden, boom, it's like alphabet soup in my house. Like, you know, you got the mail police, like, mail police, state police, county police, postal inspectors, everybody in my house. You know, like hands in the air, hands in the air. Like, you know, search warrant, search warrant. And, you know, they just started going nuts, ripping apart the house, you know, put me in a room. and the lead inspector's like, listen, we need to know right now, is there any booby traps in here? Like, if any of my people get hurt, you're going to get hurt. And I believed them.

I really did. And I'm like, of course not. You know, like, are you lying to me? Like, no, no. So, you know, they took, you know, everything I had, all my money, all my computers, you know, everything that I've been, you know, working on my true aspirations of, like, now, like, look, like, I'm trying to get out of this. and now it's here.

It's like the trouble is finally here. And it was just like, it was just such a crazy moment for me to like be like, you know, everyone says that like, you know, is there one more, one more like, no, this is really the last one. And to get caught that way, it was just. Why would they think that you had booby traps? Well, I think that like a lot of people that are sophisticated

in that sense would be sophisticated. sophisticated to do that too. So like it's not uncommon. I think like for people that are doing something like that like to have that. Like it's because you got to think about it. Like if you're doing something so sophisticated online, there's like probably other sophistication like like for not to get caught. So that was probably where my thinking was,

I think. That's why they thought that. Did you end up finding out how they were on to you? So it's a funny story. So like long story short, you know, you get put in a room. immediately and they're blasting off on you.

Like, tell us who you know, who you're just blah, blah, blah. And like, you know, they always tell you, don't talk, don't tell them anything. Lawyer, lawyer, lawyer. And it's just like, they tried scaring me because they were like, I asked them right away. Is this, what am I being charged, whatever? We don't know yet. We don't know.

And I'm like, is this being federal or is this state? And they saw that I was scared because I, you know, obviously I don't want it to be federal. You know, so they kind of toyed with me on that. and they were like, look, like, we're going to make this federal unless you tell us everything right now. Like, and that I just started talking. That was probably one of the stupidest things I ever did. And then, you know, it's like the next morning, it's like arraignment morning or whatever. And, you know, like you see the public defenders and all these other people and I didn't have money for a lawyer.

You know, they took all the money. So, you know, it's just like I'm at the mercy of the courts now to decide my fate. And I don't know if like each county you're. place is different, but there's pro bono lawyers and then there's, um, you know, the public defenders. So I don't know how they pick it, but when it was my turn to go up, I didn't have a, you know, a lawyer with baggy pants and look like you're going to jail. It was like a lawyer and a crazy, you know, get up and I'm just like, I have a real lawyer, like, what's going on? And after that, he, you know, visited me in the, and I was, um, waiting to get R-O-I and he was saying,

you know, like, look, like, normally this would be. like $150,000 plus case, and I'm doing it for you free because it's my pro bono. He said, do you want to know how you got caught? I said, absolutely not. I don't, you know, I think in a part of me

is just letting it behind, but also the point where it's like, I would want to know how I did get caught, so I don't want to leave that chance for me to do it again. So do you find out? No. You never...

No. Dude, I think every criminal finds out how they got caught and you just said no. I said, I don't want to hear it. Really? Yeah. You weren't that curious?

It was a sense of being curious, but also the point where it's like, what is this knowledge going to do for me? It's like, I'm not going to be a shoulda, woulda, could a person. You know, I think it would make me more angry to know that something so simple or stupid that I did could have prevented me. But I was just like, so I think relieved for this to be over in a sense, you know? That's why I didn't want to know. And the people you flipped on were your clients.

So I didn't flip on anyone or anything. I just basically, you know, told them like how it was, you know, operating. And, you know, there's nobody to flip on because it's all encrypted and everything. Like, they didn't get anything. It's just that they wanted me. They just wanted to stop, you know, or whatever. And, you know, I just gave up myself and said, look, like, this is what I was doing. This is it.

My lawyer used to be the ADA, assistant district attorney. So he had connections with it. And he was like, look, like, you're. facing right now, anywhere between two to seven years, like straight up. And we'll play it by there and try to see what we can get you. And what were the actual charges they hit you with? It was just like so many. It was like literally like just a whole bunch of them and just like serious felonies and just like it was trying to figure out like what I could plead it down to, you know, so I can get shock or like like KSAC or like another.

program so that, you know, I'm not going full, full, full into it, you know. So did you not tell them that you were just the middle person taking the goods and giving it to someone else? No, I didn't know about any of that. So in their eyes, they just think you're the purchaser doing whatever with it. Correct. Correct. Correct.

Okay. And I'm sure your attorney probably framed it as you were buying these items just for yourself. Correct. Yes. And that's why they gave me like, you know, it's called KSAC. So it's like a drug. counseling prison program.

Basically, that's what I got sentenced to. And how much time was that for? So basically what it is is that they give you, it's like a split bit type thing. So they give you like two years, right? And if you graduate your program, you go home. But if you fail that program, you get the full seven. And where is this program? So this was program was in Marcy.

That's where I was. And, you know, it's like people always say that like counties worse than prison. And it's so true because like, you know, you wish. or getting disordered or not knowing where you're finally landing is like the worst. You know, it's just like such anxiety of like, you know, figuring out what's going on and, you know, how is this going to impact the rest of my life, you know, and how am I going to look the other way out? Where are your parents in all this? Why didn't they pay for an attorney for you?

How did they react? So, you know, my parents really didn't have the money, you know, they kind of like, you know, they wish they could give me the money for it, you know, to help. But it was just something out of like their budget. You know, like I said, like any lawyer would have charged $150,000 $200,000 for this. And so it was kind of like, all right, you're on your own. And, you know, obviously they had my like, you know, support morally and everything and they still love me.

You know, my parents have always at a young age told me like you could tell them any, you know, you could tell me anything. And I really believe that, you know, you should have someone in your life that you could tell anything to. But they were with me morally, but not, you know, there for me, you know, financially. And I couldn't expect them to do that. You know, I don't want them to put up the house. or anything like that.

And it was just like, you know, I got to handle this on my own. How old are you when this happened? So I was, I think, 25, 24. Okay. And these, after you finish this program, do you still have a felony on your record? Or does it go away? How does that work?

So, like, New York, we recently just made it so that after seven years after your crime, it's, like, taken away. But, you know, it's like, when you're in the situation, your life changes forever. You know, like the day you become a felon, it's like, you know, you're no longer the citizen or person that everyone expects you to be. You know, you're this monster.

And I feel like a monster. I felt like just a normal, you know, person who just got into the wrong circumstances. And I feel like that happens to so many people in America that are in the prison system is that they're just a series of unfortunate events that lead to them, you know, and you're locked in with your uncle. locked in with your aunt. You know, you're locked in with these people that you consider your family, you know, not in a sense like, you know, they're your family, but it could be one of your family members. You know, these are just everyday people. At this facility you went to, what type of people are there? So we called this like a going home facility. So it was just like a lot of, I guess, people that were in the system for a very long time and now they're going towards end of their

bid. So they know what to put them in a more relaxed environment. So they're not like, you know, doing crazy stuff, you know, and it's just like, I think a lot of people that were, you know, older, unfortunately, you know, like really, really, really old, you know, geriatric old. And it's just so sad to see, like, someone that could be your grandpa, you know, be locked up for something stupid. And, you know, there was just like a lot of parole violations, robberies, vehicular stuff, you know. And of course, you know, the tromos and people like that, there was a good section of those. And just like, you know, you really, this is a medium facility. So it's just like a lot of people just going home, just ready to live the rest of their lives after this time period they had.

How'd they treat you in there? Were you picked on? So, you know, I kind of, when you're going in to facilities, like, you know, first they have you go to from county, they transport you to a max. and that's where I went. I was in a max facility for like a month until they sorted it out. And it was just like so crazy to be from that facility to another. And it's just like you're in 22 hour lockdown type vibes. You know, it was just like whatever.

And I've seen, you know, from your podcast and other people's story, it's the first thing I ask you, let me see your paperwork. Let me see your paperwork. What are you doing here? What are you doing here? And, you know, when I told people like, this is what I'm in for, they would be even worse than the people. that I was getting stuff for. They'd be like, oh, you need to tell me how. You need to tell me how.

And, like, I feel like they didn't want to hurt me or pick on me because they knew that I could potentially help them, which I would never do. And then also the fact that, like, I'm not a gang member. I'm not, you know, looking for trouble. I'm not points on me, you know, playing the game. You know, so there's nothing really for me to worry about. So, like, I was treated with, like, respect. And I think, like, one of my first days,

in the max was like, I helped an MS-13 gang leader and he kind of like put in the word to like, don't leave this kid alone. And that followed me into my next facility. How did you help him? So crazy story. So like, you know, it's like the facility we're in,

it's all, there's like four rooms in each complex like part, whatever, and there's like tiers to each one. And I was facing a window. and this person needed like you know he told me straight up he's like you know screaming from across the hallway he's like I need you to take the he throws a sheet basically with like attached to like piece of paper throws it across the one door to the other and it's like I need you to take this the string of whatever put it down your window

have you they put whatever it is in it you know crawl it up fish it out fish it to me and I was just like, I can't believe I'm doing this. Like, whatever. So I just fished it out, gave it to them. And he said, thank you. Thank you. I'll take care of you. I'll make sure you're good.

And this guy had like a really, really crazy story of like, you know, he came from El Salvador to America when he was eight years old by himself. And he got caught the first time he tried coming into America. and I think that was like, wow, it's like such a crazy story to hear. Like someone coming to America by themselves, eight years old getting caught, and then being sent back, and then having to start the whole journey again. Bonjour, compadre. It's the Priceline negotiator.

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Your life deserves music. Your music deserves Bose. Find your perfect product at Bose.com. And that was just like so crazy to hear this person tell the story like that. Did you ever find out why the FBI didn't pick it up, your case? Not at all. Like, you know, I think like it was just, um, homeland. It was like, you know,

the agencies that were involved with, you know, the mail police, the Homeland Security or whatever, the state agencies and stuff. And, like, you know, that's another, that's a really good question. Because, like, a lot of the time I thought that, like, you know, I've seen people that do their state stuff and they're outside. And then, boom, the feds are waiting for them to go to their next case. So, like, I really thought that was a real possibility. But I honestly think they didn't have as much as I thought they had on me. But it must have had something. If you had stayed quiet and had a lawyer that first time, would it have been?

been a different outcome? Probably. Probably. Probably. How much money would you say you made during that whole thing? Enough. Enough to definitely stop. Enough to definitely stop. And that's what I had aspirations for. It was just like, look, like, I'm realizing that these people aren't my friends. You know, this toxic, like, they're hurting the people I care about in this environment. And I'm not realizing it. You know, I'm so in love with this club atmosphere, this like plur, you know, all this other stuff and it's like I'm hurting the environment I'm not being a process to it and now the environment has gotten so toxic over the years you know people are doing ketamine people are you know like they're not there for for the love of the music like how I was and then it was

slowly I was being corrupted into it to being something more and that was like so disheartening to feel that like I got got you know and it's like I've always since then put my stuff out there but not enough where it would hurt me. So when you get out of that facility, what do you do? Do you go back to what you were doing before or do you go down a different course in life? So, you know, it's like at this point, you know,

I'm having aspirations to come back. Like, how do I get back in the music industry? What do I do to, like, put my name out there? And it's like I had a lot of people that I thought were friends, clients, people that I cared about. You know, a lot of people did reach out to me and show their love and stuff and people that I still work with

and have admiration. for a million times over. But, you know, like, it was really tough to, like, reach out to people that didn't want to reach back. And, you know, in locked up and then also, like, outside, just trying to. But I, you know, went back to my roots. You know, I was like, look, let me identify the people that were there for me and the people who weren't.

People who were using me and the people who weren't. And, you know, I started honing in onto that. And was it hard to navigate life with now? a felony on your record. Yeah, extremely. And it's like, you know, I have to look for work. I have to, you know, make a living, all this other stuff. So, you know, fortunately, like, I didn't want to do any of this.

I had aspirations, again, of getting into the music industry. But I knew it wasn't going to be that easy. You know, like, you know, I'm already a pariah to a degree. You know, obviously people like, liked me, but also I'm a pariah. So it's like, how do I'm going to get back to my life? And Target, like, hired me right away. They hire felons and stuff. able to get a job, started saving up more, you know, and just having aspirations to like, look,

like try to make, you know, a comeback. What was your relationship with your family after all of this ended? It was really good. You know, just like so happy to, you know, be back. And like, even though I was gone for like only like nine months, it still felt like such a long time. You know, it's like, you know, it's like one of the first days that I realized that like, look, I'm here for a while, you know, I'm the first day that they let you have the phone again after. It's like a week later because your books have to settle and all that. And I'm on the phone, you know, calling my mom. Like, oh, it's going to be like the hardest nine months ever.

Like, oh, like, I love you, blah, blah. I'm crying. My guts out. And one of the MS-13 gang leaders comes up to me and says, why are you crying? Like, stop crying right now. Like, you're only here for nine months. That guy is here for life. This guy's here for seven years.

This guy's here for 13. Shut up. And that really, like, put it into all perspective. that like, look, like, it could always be so much more worse. So, like, I kind of was, like, grateful for that. And then I kind of had pressure to, like, you know, for my parents to not ever go back to the way I was. So, you know, they were supportive, but at what cost, like, you know, not to hurt myself or anyone around me, you know? What's your life look like now?

Yeah, I live such a beautiful life. And I would have never imagined that I'd be this far with so many people that support me. and it's just that like, you know, anyone who has struggles or, you know, it's just getting out or, you know, not realizing like, you know, what their end goal is, is that there is an angle. It just starts with you, you know, deciding how you want to live the rest of your life. How do you kind of resist that urge? I'm sure it comes up to, you know, want to fit in, be liked in a group of maybe new people that, you know, don't accept you or don't like you to make sure you don't go down that path again. It's tough because, you know, I realize that I have so many people that do. care for me and the people I do work with. And it's a, I don't have to impress anyone. I only have to impress myself. And sometimes it's a little bit hard to do. But I make it so that I'm living every day of my life, like the way I want it, without worrying about someone else,

comparing myself, contrasting, you know, figuring out what's my next move, what's my next plot, you know, just putting that all to the side. And it's very hard to do. But I think once you do that, you hone in, you're able to like really process it. What would be your biggest takeaway you want, or lesson, life lesson, you want people, the audience to take away from your story. I think overall it's just that like, you know, when you are in trouble or your backs behind the wall, it's not how you pivot. It's how like you look at it, you know? So like just take a deep breath, take the time you need to focus on yourself, not worry about what anyone else thinks. Is there anything you would do differently, like going back to your teenage years? To be honest, no, because, you know,

I think like those times of being those ting angst or being by myself or whatever really led to the personal development that I have today, even though I didn't realize it then. But I feel like I truly do that everything happens for a reason. And that if you're the type of person to take away your past mistakes and realize that their blessings, you know, you could grow out a lot more powerful in that way. That's awesome. Well, Alex, thank you for coming on the show today. I appreciate you. I appreciate you reaching out to me and sharing your story. and safe travels back to Long Island, man.

Happy holidays. Happy holiday. Thank you so much, Ian.