Locked In with Ian Bick - How I Made $45 Million Selling Drugs on the Dark Web | Spencer Cook

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Spencer Cook built a $45 million drug empire on the dark web. He shares how it worked, the dangers he faced, and the moment everything fell apart. #DrugEmpire #MillionDollarScam #DarkWebDrugs #TrueCrime #LawEnforcement #FederalPrison #Trafficking #underworld Thank you to LUCY & DRAFT KINGS for sponsoring this episode! Lucy: Let’s level up your nicotine routine with Lucy.  Go to HTTP://LUCY.CO/IANBICK and use promo code (IANBICK) to get 20% off your first order. Lucy has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind.  Draft Kings: New players can get FIVE HUNDRED CASINO SPINS ON A FEATURED GAME! Just sign up with code IANBICK and wager a minimum of five dollars to receive FIVE HUNDRED CASINO SPINS ON A FEATURED GAME. Connect with Spencer Cook: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/1FbLyfutyV/?mibextid=wwXIfr Website: https://soberin40.com/mission/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/spencer-cook-7947541a1/ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://convictclothing.net/collections/convict-clothing-x-ian-bick Timestamps: 00:00:00 Growing Up in Long Island and Family Challenges 00:05:16 The Importance of Embracing Change in Tech 00:10:08 Escaping Through Addiction 00:16:50 Introduction to Silk Road and Its Operations 00:20:45 Mike Tyson and the Rise of Bitcoin ATMs 00:25:40 Uncovering the Drug Operation 00:31:09 Largest LSD Bust in Costa Rican History 00:36:27 Arrest and Early Criminal Charges 00:41:36 A Life-Changing Encounter with a Homeless Man 00:46:31 Life-Threatening Prison Dynamics 00:52:14 Federal Case Appeal and Asset Seizure 00:56:53 Overcoming Addiction and Life Transformation 01:01:51 Transforming Prison Experience into Personal Growth 01:07:08 Lessons Learned from Prison: Living One Day at a Time 01:11:55 Navigating Life Post-Prison: Building a New Path 01:15:55 Living Life with Purpose: Time as Your Most Valuable Commodity Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Iqbar.com code Brain IQ. Spencer, welcome to Lockton, man. Thank you for coming out here. This is your second trip to the studio because you were on someone else's podcast. Yeah, we appreciate you coming back. Thanks for having me. You came from Long Island. Did you grow up there?

Yeah, I grew up in Long Island. Ran away to California for a couple years. I lived on a fire island a little bit. I went from one big island to a little island. And, you know, I just ran around. I was always in Manhattan and Brooklyn. But Long Island was where I rested in my head. Who'd you grow up with?

I had two siblings, two parents. Both my parents were disabled. My brother got me into the life of the gray area. And he was able to get out. I don't know. I just fell in love with shortcuts and pass money and escaping from drugs and alcohol and crime. I don't know. Some people just outgrow things and I just couldn't, you know.

Were your parents disabled your whole life? Basically, yeah. My dad had multiple sclerosis ever since I was. a young kid and my mom had three stage four cancer battles and she beat them all but all the chemicals they threw in her and you know the chemos and the radiations and all the surgeries it just tapped her out was there another relative that helped to raise you guys no no um we just figured it out i think that's where a lot of my beginning substance abuse issues came from the life of uncertainty not knowing how to handle emotions and stuff

like that i think it had a little hand in expediting the process but who knows you know an addicts i was probably born i was probably born an addict you know but um you know i was committing you know by the time i got older probably 17 18 i was i was committing 15 felonies before lunchtime it was just normal if you were a normal law-abiding human being you probably freaked me out you know

and eventually you just your whole life becomes all the you know surrounding yourself with toxic negative people you know and you know that's just

I basically just everything I learned was on the street I would if I would have went to school I would have lost all my money college you mean in high school did you go to a regular high school yeah I went to a regular normal high school public school um this the stuff that we were we got away with in public school it's like I think about it I'm just like how how did all that go down the things I can tell you

what happened in school I mean today I can't ever see happening you know but I guess like our our generations before us probably said said the same shit like the stuff that went down during their time probably would have never happened during my time. But they're all similar in some type of variation. Like my dad would tell me stories about how they would toilet paper houses and we did that, but we would take it a step further. And there's always like one little variation of that generation in each story too. Yeah, I once bought like 30 yards of shit and dumped it in front of somebody's house.

What do you mean shit? Like horse poop? Like manure. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like, you know, it's all the same story, just different details. you know, but today it's so much different. How would you describe yourself as a kid?

I was a loner. Like, I loved drifting away. Like, when I was a real young kid, I would take my bike, get on the Long Island Railroad, and go into the city and just meet random people and get into random shit. And I was always a deep thinker. But in between all that, there was definitely a ton of fear. unknown uncertainty. But I was always wondering

what the whole point of this whole thing is. Like why am I here? What's going on? What's my purpose? Like I was a deep thinker, but at the same time probably lost. Did you guys struggle for money because of your parents' disabilities? Yeah, like if my mom was half dead,

my dad was half alive. If my mom was half alive, my dad was half dead. But for some reason, we managed to be in like a nice middle-class, middle-middle-class area, Long Island, you know, but you could be in the same town as somebody and be struggling five times more but still hang on, you know?

What were their careers before they got disabled? They both had a business, a printing business. And for a few years when my dad wasn't too bad, you know, it was pretty good. But, you know, I guess maybe like, Maybe like a few years before COVID happened, they just got wiped out. You know, if you don't, just like, I'm a big tech guy. If you don't remain flexible and open to new technology and if you don't, if you remain stagnant, you're done in any business, any industry. You know, you have to just keep emerging, keep growing.

And the second you get comfortable, that's when you're on the chopping block. Eventually time will take you out. Did you end up graduating high school? Yeah, of course. But you never went off to college. I was offered a full ride to a few schools. I was a big athlete. I was a wrestler.

You were a wrestler? Yeah. Yeah. I wrestled ever since I was the second grade. That was probably my escape. I didn't really have a choice. I was forced to wrestle. My brother, my father, they just said you're wrestling.

And I got my ass beat for like the first two years. I don't think I won a match. Like, I got comfortable getting my head bashed in. You know how, like, you get comfortable in your misery? Like, you've been in prison, you know. You get... The people who do prison best are the ones who get comfortable in their misery. And then one day I just woke up, and I was like, no, fuck.

I'm never getting manhandled again. And I became really good. It was probably one of my escapes. Why did you decide not to go to college for wrestling? I couldn't figure out who I was. I didn't know if I was a drug addict, a drug dealer, or an athlete. Couldn't figure it out. I had this huge monkey on my back.

I couldn't figure it out. The drugs got deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper, and the athletics got bigger and bigger and bigger. And I remember being in the state semifinals in wrestling, with a half a liter of vodka in me. Like I couldn't, like, who the hell drinks a half a liter of vodka five hours before a wrestling match heading into state finals?

Like, only a sick, scared little boy would do something like that. And no one noticed? A few of my teammates knew, but if you want to know where those guys are, two of them are dead. You'd end up in prison, institutions, or death, you know? What was your drug a choice aside from alcohol? I would snort and shoot heroin. I would always shoot coke, shoot heroin within the same hour.

Psychedelics were a big part of my, I guess, my drug career. And then I would always take a handful of Xanax to put me out. So it was basically, and then obviously the alcohol, I was a big whiskey guy. Loved whiskey. I would literally wake up in a morning and drink whiskey, like warm. Like it had to be there. Otherwise, I'd shake. Like my hips would shake.

My fingers would shake. Um, but I got comfortable with the acceptance of knowing I'm fucked up. Like, I never wanted help because my ego was way too big. Um. but you know one thing leads to another and the alcohol is big in my life alcohol the

depressants you know you need the depressions because when you're depressed you need it and then you rely you rely on the short term effects shorter and shorter and shorter it's like it's like a best friend that you're just

willing to um forgive constantly because you're always chasing that first high. Like you get this high when you're young and it's it's like in your brain and you'll never forget it. And then you're always chasing that high that you have built into your mind your whole life. You know, and people ask me like, what is heroin like? And I'm like, you ever like think about the most evil thing in the world and then think about yourself selling your

soul to it. No matter how evil it is, you're willing to die for it. Because it's so good, that's what I would compare heroin to. I would snort it all throughout the day. And then at night when I know I didn't need to function or if I was like put, then I would shoot up. But it was definitely a big monkey on my back. And I could have never quit on my own.

If the feds didn't take me out of my misery, I would probably be. be dead. Do you think you were trying to escape something? Oh, absolutely. What do you think that was? Um, I feel like I'm going to talk for a lot of addicts. Maybe, you know, who knows in the comments, they're going to shit on me. But a lot of addicts drink and drug because they don't want to grow up and deal head on with whatever, with their issues that they're dealing with.

like there's so many underlining issues going on and you're just willing to buy your ego says I can buy my way out of this just for tonight and you drink it away drug it away pass out black out and it's it's that temporary like five hours

of like silence up here that's what you're buying you're buying temporary relief temporary peace but that's the best friend that I refer to like my best friend was alcohol and drugs and I was willing to

forgive it every time it let me down every time that drinking drug let me down I instantly forgave it I said don't worry we'll just do more next time we'll just do more I've had two self-induced heart attacks from drugs and alcohol I've had people shoot at me

Like you name it Like everything I had two best friends murdered over this life Um A fiance of mine overdosed and died Like everything I had loved lost Almost had Was just ruined by

A meaningless life Like I was I was definitely emotionally And spiritually bankrupt At all cost Um But the second That I

I found God and my whole life changed. The second I found sobriety, it was like a whole new different journey. It's like you find the keys to the universe and you're like, oh my God, I got something big here. And then you know like this experience that you're experiencing is so freaking wild that you're like, I got to keep this shit to myself. Because people would think I'm cracked out of my head. And then you develop a relationship with God and, you know, what? When I found sobriety in the shoe, when I got out, I didn't even feel like I was in prison. I did a year and a month, straight in solitary.

That was my first run. When they got me out of solitary, I didn't even feel like I was in prison. I was in one of the worst. I was actually in this place three times. Unit 43 in Brooklyn, MDC. They say it's one of the worst units. every time I was in 43 I didn't even feel like I was in prison it was just for some people it was a nightmare for me I was like on a high

what happened after high school that led you on to that path to prison um I couldn't understand how the regular world was making it I didn't understand how normal people who made $150,000 a year and even today that's not a normal world normal job. That's not your average salary, but that's what I implanted in my head. That's what I, you know, I just couldn't understand how people were making it. It, nothing made sense to me. How does one person who makes six figures a year pay for all this out here? How does, how is,

it doesn't, the numbers do not add up. And for me, I just, I was like, I'm not going to school. I'm too fried. And, uh, I was like, this type of, this is the life that I want to live. Um, I'm avoiding responsibility. I'm satisfying my selfish needs, making real fast money. I got involved with Bitcoin in the middle of 2009. I knew where it was going to be. And then by 2011, I had five of the biggest accounts on Silk Road in the psychedelic categories. And I had so much money in Bitcoin.

I knew where it was going to be. But back then, cashing out was like a whole different ballgame. Like, you had to go to the Bitcoin Trading Center on Wall Street at like 11, 12, 1 in the morning and literally do hand-to-hand transactions with people. And give back then, there was a 10% Vig. All the Bitcoin people who have been involved in Bitcoin back then, the Vig was 10%. So if Bitcoin was $100, you're paying $110 for a Bitcoin. And I would give my Bitcoin away at cost.

But you're doing like a hand-to-hand transaction with people in the back rooms with all the cash counters. And as long as I had enough money to survive and live my meaningless life and live in the W hotel and go run around from hotel to hotel. And as long as I had enough money to survive and my drugs and my stashes where we're, I needed them to be so I can have enough. I didn't really care about much. Are you tired of boring nicotine options? It's time to upgrade to Lucy Breakers, a tobacco-free, 100% pure nicotine experience

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and don't forget to use code Ian Bick for 20% off. And here comes the fine print. Lucy products are only for adults of legal age, and every order is age verified. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Now let's get back into today's episode. So tell the audience what the Silk Road is for the people that don't know and then what your involvement with it was. So I had a mentor who was not going to say his name, but he was the head biochemist for the United States Navy, Dow Chemical.

he invented MDMA he invented over 260 synthesis and I was manufacturing a ton of shit all over the world and using it to run five accounts on Silk Road. Silk Road was an underground

drug marketplace first of its kind until like a million of them popped up but by 2013 the end of 2013 before I went down on one account I had close to 25 million in Bitcoin just on one account that was seized by the government and how'd you obtain that money I was a seller so people would pay you in Bitcoin and to sell drugs yeah on the black market on the dark web yeah so basically you're selling

drugs to people you don't know, which I knew everyone I was selling to. So how does it work? Walk us through a transaction. So basically, you're a stranger in a different country and I'm a seller and you want to buy X, right? So you would put up your Bitcoin on the Silk Road marketplace. It's basically like a drug escrow account. Right. So I'm vetted on Silk Road. I put up my money. I build up a these transactions, people rate you, they rate you, it's almost like the eBay of the drug world. I'm sure there's many of them today, but I would have no clue. And then I would ship the drugs.

And then when the drugs get in your city, you would release the escrow and I would get paid. So it's tracking the drugs and as soon as it makes it to your city, it releases it. Yeah. And so you're going to the post office or FedEx or UPS? I had a whole system. To tell us about your system. Without getting too deep into it, the USPS was my co-conspirator. There's a whole system in play on how you get the drugs to them, how they pick it up.

And, you know, without getting too detailed, the USPS was my conspirator. And what kind of drugs were you selling? Was there anything off limits? Lysergic acid dimethyde, LSD, 2CB, 25I, NBMOMEs, LSD, LSZ. Um, MDMA. And where were you getting these drugs from? They were being manufactured. In Long Island?

No, all over the world, and three different continents. So you're having people, you're like, you're the middleman at like an arms dealer, but for drugs. Yeah. People are sending you the money, and then you're sending other people the money to outsource to get the drugs, send it to you. I may or may not have had a hand in building them. but yeah I mean it probably costs me $9 to make a gram of LSD a gram of LSD would sell for like

8K 8,000 a gram The profits were ridiculous So back then how do you convert Bitcoin to US dollars to live? Well back then it was like a job It wasn't as easy as on your phone today Keep in my Bitcoin was unregulated Um

It was like taboo. People looked at it like monopoly money back then. They had a couple, I think, Bitcoin ATMs, but that was about it. No, but yeah, that was a little later. Like, Mike Tyson got involved in all that stuff, but that was even later. Like, that was. So how would you live? He probably got, I think Tyson and the ATMs started to get big in like 2014, 2015-ish.

but in like 2011, 12, 13 it was literally like doing a drug deal. Like I would meet people or I would have people on my behalf meet people in like Starbucks's and you're literally like getting handed a bunch of cash in public

and they're literally entrusting you to send them the crypto like right to their phone and these are relationships you build up with people that's why it was like a nuisance But I knew where this world was going. Like, I was a futurist. And whatever I do, I try and predict the future to the best of my ability.

If I can't see it clearly, I don't really get involved in it. What was your username on the Silk Road? Did you have, like, a funny one? My biggest name was, I'll show you my indictment when you want. But my biggest username was Billy Madison. And that's all my indictment as well. Billy Madison was the biggest username I had

That's funny Yeah I was in love with that show So how much money do you think you made Overall selling drugs on the Silk Road I mean it It pains me to even think about it Because it's not like I ever had it Um

Between all five accounts Probably Close to probably 45 million And why do you need different accounts Because If you're too big then you get people looking at you. You want to compete against,

you want the accounts to compete against each other. It's like a lot of gas station owners will buy the competing gas station across the street and raise higher prices. Just slightly. Just to make you think that there's two people that you can choose from and the consumer has the ability to choose,

it's probably the same guy. You don't want to be the biggest fish because then people looking at you. And keep in mind, there's no such thing as like anonymity. Like the blockchain ledger is real. Like you do enough activity. They'll find out who you are.

Keep in mind a ledger is a ledger. It's transparent. So you could only do as much as you can to like protect who you are, put up enough digital walls, but everything can be broken. So you want to keep a low profile and have like multiple accounts, selling different things and, you know, make it look like there's competition.

Did you feel bad at all that some of these drugs could have been going to kids? Because back then there was no screening of who the usernames was, no age limit, nothing like that. I tried not to think about it, to be honest. But that's, I mean, it definitely ran through my mind. If I were to get curious enough about who somebody is, I would look into them. I would never sell to a child on the street Like You would be surprised

The moral compass that most drug dealers are Like Especially ones that have double lives Like they They have some sort of moral Moral character to them I wouldn't I would never sell to a kid

If I knew it was a child Um But everyone that I would look into for the most part Like They were pretty interesting Like the people that I would sell drugs to Like if I would like sometimes I'm just like there's no fucking way this politician's buying my drugs Like

Like The people that I would sell to were so interesting And you kind of just keep Keep it quiet Did your family have any idea what you were doing? Yeah everyone knew I was a drug addict But not a drug addict Yeah

It was just a matter of when Spencer was going to hit the brick wall And how old were you when you were at your peak of this? 25. 24, 24. You said you like to look into the future when you made decisions. You must have known that one of these individuals you were selling to or the whole plan in general could fall apart with law enforcement, something getting stuck in the mail. Someone snitching that got bad drugs or anything could have happened, right? This one girl I would sell drugs to.

We built like a relationship over like two and a half years. Now, I knew exactly who she was, but she didn't know who I was. I would probably give her about a million five to two million dollars worth of drugs on the arm on top of what she would pay me, but I would always give her more than she would ask for her. And she would always pay. But she was in Virginia. This is actually how I got caught. We'll roll into that.

So when she got caught, the cops and the feds were like, you mean to tell me that some dude who you've never met, seen or ever spoken to in the real world gives you a million five to two million dollars worth of drugs on the arm? How are we supposed to believe that? And it was dead honestly true. Like, I knew she wasn't going to hold it down and she was going to give them all the information that she had. I had about like $4 million,

probably around $4 million in a Chinese bank account in the Great and Eastern Bank of China. And it was two of them, one in Times Square, two in Manhattan and one in Queens. And she gave the feds my username. She gave the feds the Bitcoin wallet address that she pays sometimes. I would have her pay.

Once in a while, I would have her pay on the side. And she just gave the feds as much information as she was able to give. It turned out that that Bitcoin wallet was connected to the Great Newston Bank of China. So the feds were able to find out. And back then, a few of the board of directors on Coinbase were federal agents. So Coinbase gave the feds. all opened up their books and they were able to figure out that a Chinese bank account was connected to the Billy Madison account.

And they red flagged it. But the thing is, is I never walked into the bank and I never made a deposit. I never made a withdrawal. And the only deposits that were made were online. So after like six or seven months, I was in the W hotel. in a heroin-infested orgy. And instead of going to my home in Fire Island to go get more cash to keep the party going,

I was like, you know what? I have a bank account in this weird bank. I'm going to go and get some money. So I walk in there looking like a drugged-out mess, like a bomb. And I tried to pull out 50 grand at like 10.30 in the morning. And they gave me some IRS paperwork to fill.

out and I filled it out and bullshitted my way in it and the one of the managers of the bank comes up to me and he says um listen it's a lot of money right now it's early give me like an hour to prepare it for you I'm like it's 50 grand I'm looking at them like how do you not have 50 000 like they had it they were the account was red flagged the feds told them to give me the money and they got me on camera and they were able to put a face on who This guy was behind the account with this girl in Virginia. And they let me go. And they gave me the money.

And I continued on my way. And they were able to put a face behind Billy Madison. And that's how it all started. So a million dollars of drugs on the arm. How do you get that to her? By mail. At one shot? Yeah.

It depends. She was, this chick was. This chick was getting a lot of MDMA and a lot of LSD. So what does that look like, put it in a perspective, in a box or how many boxes? One little gram of LSD is 8 grand. Oh, just one little, okay. One little gram. One gram, this is how potent and strong LSD is.

One gram of LSD can dose 10,000 people. There's 10,100 UGs, 100 metric grams inside one gram of LSD. It's the most potent, powerful crystal besides LSD. LSD is very powerful. But, you know, have you ever seen the blotter? The artwork? You know

the LSD that they put on your tongue? It's a little piece of paper. No? So LSD starts as a crystal, which 99.9% of the world does never see or never touches. And then that crystal gets broken down into a liquid with

alcohol. And then they take that liquid and they use preforated paper and they soak a huge sheet of paper inside the liquid. And that's how they break down dosages and amounts through the little squares on the perforated paper. And then you take that little piece of paper which is considered a hit and you put it on your tongue.

So that can go through any metal detector I used to walk to airports with more LSD than I could think of. I remember one time I was walking to L.A.X and I get to my gate and I'm there a few hours early. And I'm looking at the TV. And I see Costa Rica, the largest LSD bus in Costa Rica. And you got like three of these dudes who I knew who they were because I looked them up.

and I'm just looking I'm like they're in front of a table with all this blotter artwork and I'm just like holy fuck first of all there's a problem because I gave them

those drugs and second of all I have more drugs on that table than it there's more drugs in my pocket than there is on that table I'm like I'm getting out of control this whole thing's out of control

and I knew that one day you know the party would be over but I was just so sick I was like I was so sick with alcohol and drugs. I was just prolonging my misery. The Great Rewards Hunt is packed with huge bonuses, thrilling games and big jackpots, and for new players there's even more.

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It was just living in being a criminal. I had a place in borderline queens in Lake Success. Um, yeah. I remember I was in Vegas on a meaningless trip. Had nothing to do business. And I remember these three dudes were real sketchy. Like they were always separate and looking at me and I didn't know if they worked for the casino or if they were feds. And it turned out they were feds. and I'm like, all right, today's, I'm not going out in Vegas.

There's no freaking way I'm going out in Vegas. And I knew I had an interpol warrant for my arrest. I was able to ditch them and I got out. And I took a private plane from Vegas to Teterboro. And then I took a car from Teterboro to Lake Success, which is the borderline of Long Island and Queens. and I put my head down and one thing led to another and I was reliving a dream that I had three times already but it turned out that that wasn't a dream, that was reality.

The same three dreams that I had about how I was getting caught was the same way that it actually did happen. Like the psychedelics were just insane. Like I knew I was going crazy. Why did you have an arrest from Interpol? An arrest warrant? Because they wanted me from other countries. I was shipping drugs all over all over internationally. So why didn't they just reach out to America and have them do the bus done you?

They did the DEA Homeland Security and the feds were they joint and they were joint looking to me. They couldn't figure out who I was. Until you hit that bank. Yeah. So now you're back from Vegas. You're at your house. What happens? At like four in the morning, three, four in the morning, something like that. kicking the door. The whole SWAT team came in. My whole block was cut off. You know, my neighbors are coming out looking like, he told us he was an accountant.

And that was like the, when I was all, when I was handcuffed coming out, walking, looking at the beginning day that was happening. That was the first time. time in my life that I was like, fuck, like I want kids. And I knew I was done. Like, it was just a matter of how bad this is going to be. I knew I was toast.

But it was just a matter of how bad, who said what, who found what. You know, conspiracy is crazy. Conspiracy is, is like worse than getting caught with the drugs. Because the person who rats on you, it is, it'll, the weight and the drugs are just what comes out of their mouth. So I knew that I just didn't know how bad it was going to be. I knew it was horrible, but I didn't know how bad it was going to be. How old were you when you got arrested that day?

I was 24 or 25, something like that. And this is the first time you'd ever been arrested? No, no, no. I would always get arrested in the state. I probably had like three or four arrests before that. But in the state, you could always buy your way out. I think the longest bit I ever did before that was nine. months in a county jail in I think I was in like Madison County Illinois yeah I got caught with like

75 pounds of weed on a joyride when I got caught with that I was like oh fuck thank God I only had 75 pounds on me my life was out of control like you know I had zero regard for the law what was the indictment against you what were the actual charges uh conspiracy to distribute um like three or four different drugs. And did you have co-defendants? Well, they were all in prison. There was three of them, but I never, like, I literally never met them in my life. I knew who one was, that girl who I told you about.

But the other two, I never sold them drugs. But apparently I was selling all them drugs. And that's all you need is, you need more, you just need two for a conspiracy. So they were all in. waiting for me to come in so that they can get their time off. Oh, so they could flip on you and testify. Well, no, they flipped on me. All the testimonies were out.

But you have to, like, your testimony has to be real. It has to be true. Like, the guy has to, I have to say I'm guilty in order for them to get their time. That's how I think, that's how I felt, I feel like it works in the feds. Like, if what they told the feds wasn't true. or if they never found me, how would they get their time off? But like seven, I think it was like seven months, maybe a year later. I came in and I said, hi, I'm guilty.

Oh, you pled guilty? Yeah, yeah, I wasn't playing. I was definitely guilty. It was just a matter of, and then I probably had to forfeit another 9 million in Bitcoin with the AUSA. That was on portable cold storage devices. the AUSA comes says to me in front of my lawyer he goes

I'm telling you right now if you fuck me on one Bitcoin I remember Bitcoin was about $220 a coin he said if you fuck me on one coin because I'm taking your ass out of prison and I'm charging you with money laundering

and then I'm going to let you get comfortable for another five years and I'm going to take you out again and charge you for another 20 years of tax evasion he goes I'm going to fuck your life over nope you know what he said to me he said no kike like you was going to prison rich on my watch and I looked at him like this is in New York I looked at him and I looked at my turn and he goes everything they give him everything how did your parents react to your arrest no they were devastated but they weren't dumb like

I actually refused to look at my parents for over a year. I wouldn't put them on my visiting list. Because I was just so ashamed of the heart that I caused my mother and my father that I was just so selfish. I was talking to this one guy in prison. And he was telling me how he felt the same way. And it took him a few years before he put his mother on. his visiting list.

And then a week before she was supposed to come, she had a heart attack and died. And I was like, my heart sank and I'm like, oh, fuck. I'm like, I'm putting my mom on my list. And, uh, yeah. You can learn a lot about with people in prison. Like, if you actually seek a decent conversation

and you're a good judge of character by who has what wisdom, you can actually get a lot of good things out of prison. Like, yes, it's, You've been there. 99% of the people are just bad people. But like if you actually look, you can find some things that, like, there are conversations that I've had with people that will never leave my mind no matter how fried I get, where it become. I remember one time, I'm in Manhattan. I just had a heart attack from overdosing.

and I get out of the hospital probably like three, four days later. And I buy a few bottles of liquor. And I go into, I go into, what's the park? Central Park. And I found this big rock. I'm sitting on it. I'm drinking, drinking my emotions out, my feelings away. And this bum comes up to me.

and he asked me for money and I said are you asking me money for alcohol I said because I'll just give you a bottle out of my bag and he goes yeah I could I'm looking for some alcohol and I was drinking literally a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue

no bag and nothing like no shit I didn't care about anything I literally gave the homeless man a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue and we cheersed and he he had a good distance from me like and you know what he said to me

I don't remember too many parts of the conversation but when he was leaving he said to me may you be the strongest man at your father's funeral bro every time I think of this conversation

with this guy it gives me shivers because I like I analyze it so deeply if my father would have died any time in the last 12, 15 years after that I would have been not the strongest guy

at my father's funeral, but, like, that's what I aspire to be. Like, you need to live your life and get yourself prepared to be the strongest guy at your father's funeral. Because people respect and feel, um, that's to what I'm looking for. When your shits together, when you're emotionally stable, when you're okay with how you're living, people, people rely on that type of strength. Like when you can become a guy that people rely on

That's when you know you're doing it right No one was able to rely on me I would tell you I'm gonna be somewhere And I'd show up like a week later Just because I didn't know what fucking planet I'm on But my intentions were good You know But it's good to be a person in life

That people rely on And they can count on And when you say something you do it That's the type of people I like to surround myself with today How many years did you plead out to? 20 20 years yeah and they sentence you the to the 20

yeah I'll show you my indictment on my phone after uh so you got a 20 year sentence 20 year sentence um million dollar fine there's a difference between fine and restitution yep and um I didn't get the second chance act

and the second and then after seven years I got the second chance act and I went I got to go home wow otherwise my my out date would be 2034 so 20 years they send you... I was mentally doing 20 years. Did they send you to a USP first? No, a medium.

Medium. Medium. Yeah. I went to Petersburg. Was that a good place? There was no such thing as a good place. Some places are better than others. I think the only good prison, federal prison that exists, is the one in New York.

Otisville. Otisville. You never got there. You're right. I didn't have that type of privilege. That place is real Camp Fed, so I've heard. But, yeah, I went to Petersburg, then my points dropped. And then I went to, I did a lot of time in Oklahoma to transfer.

That was a nightmare. Why do you spend a lot of time there? Because when your points drop, they keep moving you. And then spent a lot of time in obviously Brooklyn, MDC. And then I went to Danbury. You want to tell the audience where we collided? Well, I'll let you tell the story, man. This is your episode.

So we actually were in solitary confinement together. You were in a cell with a friend of mine, and I was two cells down. I don't know if you remember. I forgot the lieutenant's name, but this guy saved my life. I know you're talking about the guy with the Italian dude with all the tattoos. Yeah. I don't know the name of it. He was like kind of heavy set.

Yeah, he was the coolest lieutenant there. He saved my life. I had gotten into an altercation with somebody and did something real stupid. And they wanted me to rat on myself because they weren't saying what I did to this guy. Purcelli. Purcelli. Okay, sorry. I owe this guy a letter.

Like, this guy saved my life. So he said, look, cook, if you don't admit that you did this, you're going to go out on the yard. And I'm telling you right now, there's a hit out for your life on that yard. He goes, if you don't tell me the truth, he goes, you want to be a tough guy and I'd say you did it. He goes, I'm telling you it's going to be the dumbest thing you ever did. For some reason, this guy convinced me that he was really on my side. And he goes, you have one more chance to tell me the truth. He goes, because if you don't, I'm going to release you in about a week.

And you're a dead man on that yard. And I'm like, am I really a dead man? Like, I don't believe it. But I'm like, you know, for some reason I believed him. Berseli, I owe that dude a fucking hug. And we didn't even know we were on the shoe together, but me and you met a couple weeks ago and we were just talking. We're like, oh, where did you do time?

It's funny how people that went to prison, you ask each other where did you did time, are you in the feds, we're talking. And then, oh, what year were you there? And then I say. and they're like, oh. I put you right on the phone with your celly. Yeah, that's funny. Can you tell the rabbi smuggling story?

But hold on. I want to finish this one. So I admit to doing the crime. And only in the feds can this happen. So he says, all right, thank you for admitting you did it. I'm going to keep you in here for another month. Your points are going to drop and now you're going to go to Miami. And I'm like, score.

So I went to Miami and that's, you know. But I don't know if you know what happened. happened in Danbury. A very interesting fella died in Danbury. That was in the chow hall. No. His name was David Brooks. I've seen so many people die in prison.

It's ridiculous. David Brooks was a kind of contractor for the U.S. military, he sold armored vests to the United States government. And this guy was a Jewish guy. He was definitely a sheister and a thief. So he probably did what they said he did. But he was skimping out on the type of steel that he was putting inside the armored vests. And the company was public.

And he probably did it. If I had, if I was a betting man, he probably did do it. But anyway, he was, he actually. asked me to protect him for $5,000 a week. And I said, look, David, if you need to pay me $5,000 a week, you're fucked. I don't want to get involved in whatever you, you, and he came from Miami. So he bunked with me and I started to read his paperwork and his chest. And you know who wrote his 2255?

You know what the 2255 is? The appeal? Yeah. Alan Dershowitz. Oh, really? Yeah. He paid Alan Dershowitz $5 million to write his 2255. And me being me, I personally felt that it was like the most worst written 2255 I've ever read.

And I was like, David, how the hell did you win on appeal with this? bullshit. And I'm not going to say who he was blackmailing, but he was blackmailing people. People in politics who have a reputation for killing people. And that's when I knew I wanted nothing to do with this whole situation. And I read his whole treasure chest and I saw things I never wanted to see. And the federal government killed him at Pill Line three days later. The federal government killed him.

What he told me was going to happen, happened. Okay. Three days later. What happened? He got murdered. By who? The government. But how did they murder him?

They spiked him at Pill Line. Do you believe this? 100%. What I saw? Yeah. So he's in Pill Line? Yeah. Do you know what they gave him?

No. But I do know that you know that they don't count you when you're not standing, when you're not standing up, correct? Yeah. They count us three times a day. Except for the at night count. Right. Yeah.

You have to be standing, right? Well, David Brooks was dead in my arms on the floor while I'm yelling to get a medic. And the officer, I believe his name is Fernandez or Hernandez. You know what? He said when David Brooks and everyone was looking at him dead in my arms, dry heaving, he said he's supposed to be down there and you know what happened to that officer I believe maybe a year later

he got charged with raping a female inmate and now he's in prison you could look at this is all no I read that case I know yeah David Brooks died in my arms well I believe he died I just don't know if the government had him whacked yeah what I and you didn't report that at all what you knew

I'll tell you what I took two bloods to so I got called to the warden's office after the death yeah and I took two bloods with me because you take people with you to when you get called

and she's like if I was you I would keep them outside I said guys come with me I don't need any rumors she said there are people who are going to be coming to visit you very soon if you if you're smart you would say you don't know much.

His lawyers came to see me. A lawyer from the federal government came to see me. It was a big thing because the problem is is now his whole case is on appeal. So the federal government had, I believe, close to like $200 million worth of stock that they ceased from him all that time. And are you familiar with the Aaron Hernandez case?

Of course. So if Aaron Hernandez would have won, he would have had to get everything given back to him that he lost. Like what? I didn't know they seized money. They seize money, cars, whatever they take. Whatever damages that you have incurred, they have to give back to you. So the $200 million or something to that extreme of a number that the federal government seized

from David Brooks in stock and destroyed the stock price, the federal government would need to replace all that if he won on appeal. So there's real money at stake here. He theoretically didn't die as a criminal because he was on appeal. So the conviction doesn't stand. That's why Aaron Hernandez probably killed himself. I don't know much about he was in state. So I have no knowledge of any of that.

The appeal aspect has anything to do with it, right? I think once you die, it's... If you die while on appeal, the conviction doesn't stand. No, but even if you die when you're already convicted. You're not convicted. if you're on appeal and you won. The conviction isn't final. That's why Aaron Hernandez probably killed himself.

I don't know the specifics of that case. But if I was Aaron Hernandez, I would have killed myself too because my family would get back the contract money that New England wasn't giving the family. And life insurance maybe too. Everything, whatever he had going on.

Yeah. All that gets reversed. Yeah. So like there's real money involved when someone dies while on appeal. You don't want to kill yourself when you're on appeal and you're granted an appeal. How hard is it to get granted an appeal in the feds? Extremely hard.

You have a better shot of winning a lotto. Nobody wins appeals. Like, even if you didn't do it. Like, you're not going to, it's very hard. You have a better odds waiting for the government to make something like the Second Chance Act, which happened after years and years. Exactly.

To get out of prison and winning an appeal. Yeah. Well, that's how all those jailhouse lawyers get rich. They write people's 2255s. And they're selling hope. And people buy into that in prison. Yeah, but look, when you're dealing with a heavy sentence, what else are you going to survive on?

And I've seen some guys get lucky. Yeah. But it's once in a blue moon. But who knows how it turns out? Just because you were granted the appeal doesn't mean you're going to win it. Who did you run with in prison, specifically in like the medium when you have? actually had a...

The white people. But any type of... But I would not mess around with the skinheads or anything. I tried to find people that were... When I stopped drinking and drugging, that's when I started to run like solo. Because like I was... That's when I was on a whole different path. I wasn't playing any prison politics.

I wasn't, you know, doing stupid shit. But when I was in Brooklyn early in my stages of prison, I made a deal with one of the bloods that I was going to buy up all the drugs and alcohol that were coming into the unit for the week. But I made a handshake deal. This is how sick I was. I made a handshake deal that I had to sell to everybody. So the dude brings in all the bottles of liquor and all the K2.

And within that night, he can't. came in a little late with with the stuff and then this is how this is how sick my addiction was. I made a handshake deal with the headshot collar of the bloods that there was going to be no problems. I wasn't going to be racist or or pick

whoever had the money, whoever paid me first gets it. That night I did all the drugs of myself and I drank all the liquor. Like I by like I believe I two, three in the morning. I'm thinking either I'm going to be overdosing soon or if I make it through this night, I'm a dead man anyway.

Because everyone is feigning for, I got 100 guys in this unit, feigning for drugs and alcohol, knowing that it's time. And they're already a half a night late. And these feigning drug addicts and alcoholics are waiting for their shit. And I just ingested it all in one night. And I knew I was fucked. So I found a dude Who was actually a skinhead

And First thing in the morning I just pumbled the shit out of him This dude was a military dude too I beat the fucking breaks off of them I had to go I knew like I had to get the hell out of this unit This unit's not gonna like me very much real soon

And that's how I got SIS came And they're like You got me right out of it I'm like thank you but like a normal human being would be like I'm going to sell drugs to everybody right like I just didn't care about the consequences my addiction took priority over everybody I didn't care about your fix I didn't care about anything I was just a very selfish human being but once I found sobriety my whole life changed and I went from selling drugs to selling hope I'm like a I'm like a hope dealer that's what we do it's my company we sell change Well, before we get there, just tell us the rabbi story at Danbury because you were there during what was happening. So we were paying the rabbi to smuggle us in food once a week.

And I, oh my God, we were getting some real good stuff. Like salmon, locks, Ruggula. Like the most weirdest shit. All shopped in like the best places in Brooklyn. And we would get all that stuff there. And bagels, a lot of the people on the compound knew that the Jews, this little Jewish crew, had a pipeline from the real world. And some of the other Jews who we didn't like, who were really entitled, ratted on us. and this poor chaplain, this dude was really looking out for us.

And he put his career on the line to do it too. I guess it was financially, you know, worth it for him. But this dude, in my opinion, he was doing an amazing deed. Like, you know, prison is, I wouldn't want my worst enemy in prison. If I couldn't deal with you on my own, prison is not, it's not a humane place. But many of us, we all deserve to be there for the most part. But this chaplain, he got in trouble.

Look at him. Eating whatever he wants, never gaining a pound. While I'm stuck with the boring special and can't lose an ounce. How's your lunch, man? Amazing. Yours? So good. Oh, I'm so happy for you.

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The Mandalorian and Grogu is filmed for IMAX. Buy your tickets now at IMAX.com. Did you know he got in trouble? Yeah, so when I was in the shoe, I knew that's when the investigation, Sammy, who was like one of the ringleaders in all of this, who I guess was his family was friends with the chaplain or whatever it was.

He had already been in there for like three months. months under investigation, three or four months. Yeah. And he got cleared eventually and left the shoe while I was still there. Yeah, but the chaplain lost his job because the other Jews were ratting on him. So they must have fired the chaplain and because I know they had him on phone duty. Yeah. I felt so bad for that guy.

There weren't too many times in my life where I would think about other people during those times. but I actually had such empathy for that guy. That guy really did us a solid. You know, he really wanted to make our help just a little bit better. I learned something about prison politics in that moment, too, was that some of those people that were in that Jewish community did have bad paperwork or they had, you know, sex offender charges, but the other inmates still looked at them with a lot of respect

because they were in control of the pipeline. If you're, I'll tell you what, like, if you're a sex offender and you get people to look at you in a different way, it's very rare. Very rare. Most sex offenders are just trying to survive. And I wouldn't want to be a sex offender. Just the thought of it is a nightmare. But it's very hard to get people to look at you differently as a sex offender.

You've got to be doing something right. But, like, for instance, like, none of this prison politics means anything in the real world. You know, like, there are people who I watch and I'm just like, I can see people on the street. I'm like, this dude can't get rid of prison out of his mind. Like, he can't outgrow it. He's in that prison mentality. You have to be able to be versatile and be like a chameleon. For instance, we all came on the street.

we all came into prison on the street. Your street life and your prison life, you have to be able to adjust to the prison life. But the key is to be able to readjust when you get out. Like, I feel like this is God's world, right? I feel like all my experiences in prison bring me to this point in the real world. Everything's a teaching moment.

But if you choose to stay in that prison mode, you're just as locked up as you were. Like, I take, I only take the good stuff. The, the wisdom, the personalities of people. And I use it all to, in my personal and business life, to try not to make any mistakes. Or I'll be like, oh, I miss, I remember this guy and he had a personality like this. It was very narcissistic. I'm going to stay away from this guy in business because he reminds me.

of that guy or like I get very technical and analytical when it comes to like comparing and but I try and capitalize off of all my hell and I use it as fuel for today and I try and stay keep myself out of that prison mentality because it's not you know you need to grow it grow from it otherwise what are you doing you know did you get sober before your sentence got community or right around that time period? Two and a half years before. Why did you decide to get sober in prison? That's a crazy story.

I found sobriety in solitary confinement. I'll give it a short version. I attempted to pay a prison guard $5,000 to bring me in whiskey, and he told me he would. And I gave him a name and a number. And I knew the person was in, lived in Brooklyn. Brooklyn so he'd get it quick and he looked me in the face he said alright cook I got you and this isn't on the eighth floor I think it's the eighth or ninth floor in MDC Brooklyn whatever the highest floor is I believe it's the eighth and ninth floor whatever so for a whole day I'm pacing myself like a sick

dog refusing to eat I won't eat because I wanted my stomach to be as dry as possible so that burn I would enjoy the burn um and my imagination was so vivid and um the next day comes he gets back on the deck he takes my tray he says I'll be right back I got what you need cook and he opens up my little slot door and he throws me the big blue book of alcohol sox anonymous

can you believe that shit this dude sold me that he was going to get money for me and bring me in my juice and I threw the book against the wall like I called him every derogatory name under the sun like just praying that this dude to open up the door because this seven-foot dude,

I was going to eat them. And obviously, you know, they're not opening that door for nothing. After about like three, four weeks, I opened up the book. And I started reading it. And I was like, this book is written for me. And, like, I had this God moment. Like, I'm on my knees. Feeling like I'm, who knows what time it was, right?

On my knees, feeling like I'm floating in. space talking to God like apologizing for leaving him and just apologizing for everything that I like just I woke up I felt like what it felt like to be human again and I started I read the book probably eight times before I got out of that that was like a year and a month of solitary but the second I got out of that solitary confinement, I was starting to live right. I did my time differently. I started educating myself, reading PhD research, studying quantum entanglement, quantum physics, AI. And I just started preparing myself to live like a normal human being.

Because I knew one day I'm going to get out and I'm going to be a law abiding human being. It might not feel normal, but I'm going to do everything that I know is normal, regardless how normal it feels. And I made that conscience decision that I was not going to go back to this life again. And I was going to live a life sober. Have you lived up to that promise? That was September 1st, 2016. Never went back.

How did you feel when your sentence got commuted because of the first step back? It was just too surreal. it made me realize that life might not be what you think it's going to be when you wake up tomorrow. Like you think you know how tomorrow is going to be, but you don't have a freaking clue. You don't know what you're going to experience, what you're going to go through, what direction in life God's going to put you on. Prison really taught me how to live life. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't, I would do it all over again.

It's sick, but I wouldn't. be where I am today without prison. You know what the judge said to me when she gave me my time? When she told me how much time, I'm like, I can't do that much time. She looked me in the face and said, do as much time as you can. And then hang up. She literally said this to me. She basically told me to kill myself.

And I, I, Judge, uh, Judge, what was her name? Judge Allen, Virginia. she was like she gave me what I needed I never let those words leave my brain in my whole prison career my federal prison career I woke up I literally went every day saying if I can't do this I'm just gonna kill myself today

and I kind of learned how to live life one day at a time like only focus on today if I can't get through today I'll just hang up I've had enough but I ironically even though I wasn't sober I was, you know, I learned how to do one day at a time.

And that was the greatest thing I ever learned in prison was how to do one day at a time. How much time did you end up doing, total? Like seven years, seven years in a few months. And did you have a lot of supervised release after? Three years. Okay. But I didn't even know I was on, I'm off paper, obviously now, but I didn't know I was on supervisor release. Like, after like two or three times of going in and getting pissed, like, piss test.

Yeah, they kind of let you go. They're like, look, we have a lot of people on a street telling us that you're really doing amazing things. Like, you're not going to see us much. After those few months, I was good. I would only be reminded that I was on probation when people would remind me I'm on probation. Because I was just doing the right thing and living my life and, you know, figuring it out. But when you're doing the right thing, you don't know you're on probation until people remind you. You know, because you're constantly doing the right thing.

It's repetitive. When you have something to hide or when your conscience is nagging on you, that's when you know you're on probation. You're doing the wrong thing. You shouldn't be doing that. I felt that way the whole probation only because I opened up some credit cards without permission because I wanted to build my credit. You know, it was dumb.

They weren't letting me get credit cards. So I was kind of like on edge. But what saved me was COVID because they kind of re-exam. lacked everything. Was that in your terms of probation? That I couldn't open up credit cards. I didn't have those terms. Yeah, I couldn't open up credit cards without approval of the probation officer and they kept denying it. It was dumb. I wasn't doing anything illegal. It wasn't illegal to have a credit card. But you didn't have normal rights like everyone else had. Yeah, like I had weigh all these restrictions, you know, but luckily

COVID helped me skate under the radar. And then when they did find out I opened a bunch, I had gotten permission to open one. So I opened up a bunch at the same time. And then by the time, What was that called stacking? I don't know, I guess. And then I closed them all when they got, like, they yelled at me about it, but they closed it because they couldn't really jam me up because I did get permission, but it wasn't clarified whether it was one or the other. Then I started reopening some. And by the time they sent me the financial affidavit to fill out where you got to report your credit and all of that, I had like two days left on my probation. So I just stalled them.

And then I was Scott clear. What did that feel like when you got off? Oh, it was a blessing. It still didn't feel real. for a while because you don't know. It takes a few months to be like, I'm really free. Can I do this? Yeah, because you don't know with anything.

You just don't know. But I knew I wasn't committing a new crime. I just wasn't following, like, you know, kind of silly rules, you know? Did you have, like, when you came out, did you feel like, did you stumble upon people, like, on, like, I guess, like, podcasts and people who influenced you, like, new influences? Because I didn't have anyone who influenced me in my life. So I now have all these new influences. of, you know, people and... I think had I been on TikTok,

just like as a user, during that time, I would have found that. But I didn't. I was, all I had was Instagram and Facebook, and I was in grind mode. I was working a job, and that ate up my whole life. I think had I had been on TikTok,

like had my own TikTok account, just as, like, a viewer, I would have started what I started now during COVID, which would have really blown up because that's when all, like, the prison content was coming out. everyone was at home, but I didn't.

So everything worked out the way it worked out. For me, that job was so depressing. Because I knew I wasn't doing what I was meant to be living for. But I think it's crucial to your development to get to where you want to go. It's ego-breaking. Because I see a lot of guys that get out that want to start the business right away and they want to get back into the fast life, you know, which some people have never worked a regular job after getting out of prison.

A lot of the time because they have the resources where they don't need to. to. But it's a very humbling. Most people don't have those resources. Yeah. The government takes them all. And a lot of those people also go back to selling drugs and that's why they get violated during supervised release. But my best advice to anyone is go work a regular job when you get out of prison. Or a job that aligns with what your interests are. So you can get a different perspective of what it's like on the other end. But it feels good. You having some cash in your pocket. You're doing it. You know, it gives you something to do. Yeah. And then when you're

ready, you build up a little nest egg or whatever you're going. got to do and then you quit. And if it doesn't work out, you can go back to a shitty job. See, I can always go back to a job. Like if all hell breaks loose in my life, I could just go back to a shitty job and rebuild up and, you know, nobody believed in me with what I was doing. So tell us what you were doing and how you rebuilt your life. So I have an app approved on the Apple App Store.

It's a 40-day outpatient program. I have artificial intelligence built-in proprietary algorithms. I have two scientific discoveries built into that app that I won't go to the patent office on. And I just help people find sobriety. And, you know, a lot of people are, they have real professions and they're struggling with alcohol and substance abuse and they can't ask for help. You know, a cop can't say I have a problem. He'll be on death duty for two years. He'll lose his gun and have a mental health issue, a mental health issue on his file.

teachers, lawyers, God forbid a lawyer who tried cases goes to get help for addiction. I mean, all those cases are on appeal. So I allow people to get help anonymously without having to publicly ask for help. And I'm building out a platform very similar to a platform that they have in the prison system, just outside of prison. And my whole thing is I just want to reach and touch as many people as possible. I wrote this program in prison, 95% of it, in prison. prison. And all I did was study PhD research associated with addiction because I needed to understand

my disease. I needed, I had the experience being a criminal and a drug addict, but I didn't have the scientific experience of, you know, the other half of completing the other half of the understanding. Doctors only have one half. A doctor doesn't have the time to ruin his life, go to prison, become an alcoholic, like shoot dope and become doctor. Like, you're only going to do that later on in your life, right?

So I just, if you told me Spencer, like, how many people do you want to help? To me, the number's endless. Because I need to make up for everything that I did in life and more and feel fulfilled. Because that's what you do, that's what I do. I think the name of the game is, how do I live this life before I die and how do I get some sort of fulfillment? Purpose, yeah. you got to have purpose in life yeah i had to call somebody today who i was relying on to help me with something to remind him that i'm dying he's like you're dying like what kind of disease you have

i said i don't know but i'm dying each day every day i'm getting closer to my death and i'm waiting for you to help me with this i'm like you have shares of you know like come on like let's not you don't know when i'm going to die i don't know what i'm going to die but i know i'm dying sometimes I need to remind people like bro like you might not live into your edie let's get the shit done now and prison also changed my mind with how I analyze time you know it's a very tricky thing it's it's all on how you perceive it and how much time did we waste you know to me that was depressing when I woke up realizing how much time I wasted with meaningless people inside meaningless prison cells.

You just got to forgive yourself, move on, and stop wasting time. You know, live life with purpose. Be very selective who you spend time with. That's the most valuable commodity I got to my name. It doesn't matter what's

in your bank account. The richest people in the world are trying to figure out how to buy more time. And they still can't. So if they can't find it, I definitely can't find it. You know? What's a life lesson you want people to take away from hearing your story today? Your feelings, your mind needs to be stronger than your feelings.

Think about it. Like every bad decision you ever made in your life probably was due to overriding your feelings over your mind. Right? Your feelings tell you it's okay to stay in bed. But my mind tells me to get the hell out of bed. You know, my feelings tell me, my feelings feed my ego. But my mind tells the ego where to go. You know, what happens to you today, it's not the end result.

The second you stay down, that's when you lose. You know, and also I want to remind people that if you take every shitty situation you've ever been in and you add it all up, your success rate is still 100%. Because you've made it through. So no matter what's going on in your life, things aren't working out the way they're going, you know, that you want, or they're not happening as fast as you want, or someone did something to you, or you did something, whatever it is, it's okay.

Your track record's 100%. You'll get through it. Just do the next right thing and move on and, you know, making amends and keep it moving. Spencer, I appreciate you coming on the show today. Thanks for having me. I'm glad we got to sit down and make this happen. And who connected us again? Chris.

Chris, yeah, he has the app and the prison systems. Yeah, that was a great story by the way. Yeah. Do we have time or no? Yeah, share it. I'll tell one more story. Of course.

I'm in some prison cells somewhere. And I'm reading a Forbes magazine where this guy did like 14 years in prison, got out, found his love for making bread, sold his bread company for like $3,400 million, something ridiculous like that. Um, his name was, uh, Dave Dale. So one night, I decided to get a piece of paper and a pencil and I wrote him.

Now, we do these things just to pass the time, right? So I wrote him, obviously the letter never made it anywhere or he didn't get it or whatever. But basically I was inspired by his story and motivated by him. And, um, I wrote him, nothing happened many, many, many years later. 10 years later I sign a deal with a tablet company and the COO

who signed me now we're going to be in like 12 different prisons real soon I'm in kitchen and he says Chris goes to me goes by the way

do you like Dave's killer bread and I'm like I'm literally opening up Dave's killer bread making toast right now he goes that's so funny because Dave is the one

who gave me like five six million bucks to start the company and I'm like no shit I'm like I wrote this guy a decade ago telling him how motivated and inspired he made me. And then 10 years later, I built this company and sign a deal with his company. I'm like, you can't make that up. Yeah, that's awesome. I remember I first came across Dave Killers bread when I was at Whole Foods

working. And Chris was telling me that story. And I was like, yeah, I know the brand because I'd see it every day on the shelves. That's so cool. Only someone who's been through the system would fund something like that. Yeah. Well, I hope to meet him one day and have him on the show. That would be a great guest. Me too. Everyone loves Dave's Killer Bread. I got his email. We'll email him together. I think Chris said he does like sabbaticals every... Yeah, he's on a sabbatical right now. So when he comes back, he'll connect us. So I'm going to see if I can make that happen with us. That would be great, man. I appreciate you, man. And, you know, enjoy the rest of the day. Glad you're staying local in Long Island. So I'm sure I'll see you around.

Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much for having me. I'll have to get some good smoked salmon and bagel out there. I'll get you whatever you need. Yeah. Oh, I should have asked you for that today. You should have. Yeah, I know. You asked me if I want anything from New York. That's what I should have said.

Yeah. All right. Take care, brother. Thank you.