Locked In with Ian Bick - How I Smuggled Drugs Across The Country, Helped the FBI Dismantle a Crime Ring, & Survived Prison | Ben Freedland

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

Ben Freedland reveals his incredible journey from a feared criminal smuggling cargo across the country to helping the FBI dismantle a powerful crime organization and ultimately surviving prison. But that's just the beginning—Ben’s transformation is nothing short of inspiring. After serving his time, he rebuilt his life and became a successful businessman, homeowner, and mentor. Today, Ben owns and operates Recreational Transport LLC, a premier provider in the RV transportation industry, known for its commitment to top-tier service and reliability. Transporting Class A, B, and C motorhomes nationwide, his business has set the standard for RV transport services #SmugglingStory #FBIInformant #PrisonSurvival #CrimeToRedemption #TrueCrimeJourney #SurvivingPrison #CrimeRingTakeDown #UndercoverInformant Thank you to our Sponsors this week: Magic Mind: They have a limited offer you can use now, that gets you up to 48% off your first subscription or 20% off one time purchases with code LOCKED20 at checkout You can claim it at: https://www.magicmind.com/locked Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Ben Freedland: Website:https://recreationaltransport.com/ Email: [e-mail] - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/22XvfnYpQjAW8uiH/?mibextid=LQQJ4d) -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/benjaminellisfreedland?igsh=MW1uNHVlNmN6MTJ5dA%3D%3D&utm_source=qr Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Introduction and Background of Ben 00:05:36 Childhood and Rebellion: Growing Up with ADHD 00:12:13 Selling Coconuts at Music Festivals 00:17:48 Smuggling Techniques and Tactics 00:23:44 Discovering a Goldmine 00:30:08 The Market Price Collapse 00:36:22 Life of Ruthlessness 00:42:53 Role as a Government Witness 00:48:52 Navigating a Prison Sentence: Mandatory Minimums and Cooperation 00:55:12 The Life and Death of Bernie Madoff 01:01:08 Faulty Testing in Prisons 01:07:22 Legal Challenges and Poppy Seeds Controversy 01:14:10 The Story Behind Anton Lazaro's Arrest and the Fallout 01:20:05 Confrontation with a Cellmate 01:26:16 Transitioning to an RV Business 01:32:35 Sharing the Untold Story 01:38:11 The Therapeutic Power of Recording Sessions Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Member FDIC. Ben, welcome to Lockton, man. I'm glad we can make this work. You're passing through for your business and you reached out, and I'm glad we can make this happen. Yeah, me too. I'm very happy to be here. I'm looking forward to this because I have a lot to tell, and sometimes it's just good

to talk about things to get it off my chest. Yeah, it's great to share, and you do have a really interesting story. If anyone, like, Googles your name to get excited about the episode, they'll see all the articles so no one can call you a bullshitter because it's all out there. It's true. I'm memorialized in many articles

that are prominent and I'm happy that those are there because it gives credence to my story and then I'm not called a bullshitter. They'll just like, wait, that's really true? People get so worked up in the comments. Like everyone has their own perspective. Have you ever heard of Magic Mind?

I'm not. What is that? So these are these little like they're a mental performance like booster and it's like these match energy shots there's one right there if you want to try it yeah I've been doing it is it like ginger no it's it's it's matcha oh I like there might be a little bit of ginger and I'm not sure shake it yeah give it a shake

I keep these in the fridge for our podcast guests now and it's you know it's just I take this before we film an episode because we're doing these longer episodes than five a week so yummy what do you think it's good yeah it's got a good kick to it. That's like my go-to at Starbucks. Those are great. There's a lot of sugar in those.

I can't do them, but I'm leaning off the sugar, but those are good. And Duncan has a good macho, too. I haven't tried Duncan. Oh. It's funny. I always make fun of people that go to Duncan at the airport. Well, you go to the airport. I spend a lot of time in airports.

Yeah, I travel a lot. And if you ever see the people that, like, stand in line for like 45 minutes, like 50 people deep just to get like a Duncan Donuts. It's coffee. I just wonder like, who are these people? They're like robots. I always order ahead on Starbucks. Oh, can you do that at the airport? Yeah, you can do it.

I switch, I hop ship from, I don't go to Dunkin'A anymore, I go to Starbucks. Okay. Hop ship and I just, I order in advance. Oh, you know, I've actually, I know of a pilot that does that. I need to do that because you beat the lines. The lines are freaking crazy at the airport. And they prioritize, for whatever reason. I saw a TikTok about this the other day, but these places prioritize that

mobile orders faster than they do the actual people waiting in line. That's good to know. Yes. I need to start doing that. If there's a line around the corner and you get there and you order mobily, your order is going to be done before you waiting normally in the line. Okay. Fair enough. I'll start doing that.

Yeah. So, Ben, where are you from? Where did you grow up? I grew up. I was born in Beverly Hills, California. And I grew up in West Los Angeles. I lived there for 15 years. and moved to Palis Verdes,

which is a slightly more affluent neighborhood in Los Angeles. I went to Palis Fulis Peninsula High School. I graduated. I went to school in Northern California. I started off at Sonoma State. Came home. I smoked too much weed at Sonoma State. That's actually what happened.

I never really talk about that. But came home to Los Angeles, did some community college, went back up to school at San Francisco State, and got my degree there. So Beverly Hills, What do your parents do for work? My father worked in the printing industry as an executive for large printing companies.

My mother is a nurse practitioner. And then my father became an adjunct professor at Loyal and Marymount University teaching, marketing, communications, argumentation, and debate after he retired. But he was very successful in the business world. And, you know, I grew up in an upper middle class, lower upper class. family, Jewish family from, you know, West Los Angeles. And we had a very good childhood, my sister and I. We grew up very well, very well taken care of. Our education was prioritized and a very strong family,

which is interesting because lots of people like, we'll get into this later on. But, you know, I was eventually made my way to prison. And people are always like, what the fuck are you doing here? He grew up in Beverly Hills Like, why are you here? Why am I talking to you? They would actually get mad at me

Seriously Because like, you know Maybe you had a similar experience But of course Yeah, people are always astounded You know, they're like You grew up this way Or you did this and you still ended up here

But that also makes a story relatable to people too It could happen to anyone Did you get that entrepreneurial sense From your dad? Because you, which will find out You did a criminal business But now you're in business for yourself too I wonder if that came from him.

Very possibly, you know, because I grew up with a very strong, you know, role model in business with my father. He had very strong sales and marketing skill sets. And I, before I became a criminal, I started a small business in college. I did an experiential marketing agency, staffing liquor promotions. And I had legitimate businesses before I turned to crime. but I do believe that my father played a very pivotal role in my upbringing in terms of the background that I have for entrepreneurialism. Did you get into trouble at all as a kid? Absolutely.

I was a disaster. I had, you know, I had ADD and ADHD and my parents, like, didn't know what to do with me. I was like a devil spawn. Even my dad told me today when I saw him, he was like, you were a very difficult child, man. And, you know, it kind of sculpted me into who I am. I was very rebellious when I was a child. I never really got in trouble until my mid-20s legitimately with the law. But I was not an easy child to have.

So, you know, much appreciation to my parents for putting up with me. But how do you think like a high school? school teacher would have described you if we had them here right now. Well, it's interesting because I sort of mellowed out in high school. I was very studious and, you know, not to tune my honor, but I was a very smart kid in high school. I was a violinist and the advanced symphony orchestra. You know, I could quote opera lyrics and, you know, I had already been to many countries because my father took me to Europe every summer. So I was, I think if a high school teacher had, you know, you had her here,

they would sort of just be completely astonished that I, I kind of like flew off the rails into the kind of work and experiences that I had. They would have thought me to be more of a academic than a, you know, complete psychopath with crime and just all the stuff. things that I've gotten into. So why do you think that shifted? Was there like a big dramatic event that happened to you that caused that? Was there something that caught your eye? Yeah. You know, my trajectory was a great one in terms of, you know, going into college and starting my own business in college and becoming a successful entrepreneur and business person. And I think what happened, honestly, I've thought a lot about this was the recession. I, you know,

was working as a national account manager for yelp.com in 2009, and I was terminated because there was no sales coming in. And then I took a job as a account manager for a printing company that specialized in multisensory print, and I was going and talking to C-level executives at Fortune 100 companies, and I was laid off again. So I had this great trajectory. You know, I had this great background in business. I had this upbringing that was amazing. I had a, you know, good, solid college education. And then 2008, 2009 happened.

And everyone was just completely fucked. There were people that were, you know, just as more experienced than me. Because I was just fresh, essentially. And they were struggling to get jobs in fast food during that time. I remember going to, you know, a career. career fair in San Jose and there was so many people there that the fire department shut it down because it was a disaster. There were so many people trying to get, you know, very few jobs.

That was the time where I started to realize that I needed to take care of myself and be on my own. And I think doing those things essentially to start off with, I started to find my way into crime. which made it easier for me to live the way I wanted to. So you were open to working like a lower level paying job. Like would you have worked at a McDonald's or no? I mean, I wouldn't have wanted to. But do you think, you know, the Benback then would have? Possibly.

Did you try ever to work there? I was really more inclined to work entry-level sales positions, which is pretty much the same pay as McDonald's. So you had exhausted all options. at that point. What about asking your dad for help? I actually did ask my dad for help and I worked for him. He was a sales manager for a marriage chip, which is a company in Los Angeles and I became an account manager for him in Northern California. But then he got let go like seven months in and then I got let go about eight months in. Wow. And that's kind of like when everything started to go downhill at first.

but I actually had no money and I was living in this big house in Daly City, California affectionately known as Daily Shitty because it's always foggy and it's like 360 days out of the year it's like so thick that you can't even see a hundred feet in front of you

but it's still right next to San Francisco and a pretty desirable place to live I was a very avid fish fan and I knew that the band Fish was coming to town. So I scrambled because I knew that people sold things in front of their shows, and I scrambled and I went to go find something that I could sell in front of the fish show. I went to the local Chinese supermarket, and I found coconuts, Thai coconuts.

So I took 60 Thai coconuts to the fish concert in Mountain View, California, at Shoreline Amphitheater, and I cut them open, I sold them, and I made $300, I bought a bag of of weed, and I got a ticket. And when I was in the concert, I was like, you know what? That was fucking awesome. I'm going to do that again. So I got 150 coconuts from the same market. I cleaned them out.

I went in with like a shopping cart. I cleaned them out, and then I got all the boxes in the back. I drove up to Washington, D.C., excuse me, Washington State to the Gorge Amphitheater. and I sold 150 coconuts there. And then I was like, holy shit, this is like, I'm making money. This is a lot of money. I made, you know, I was like 150 times 12. I started putting rum in them.

And I had this crazy acid trip. And this guy was like, this is the other vendor. He was like, hey, I saw you doing the coconut thing. You need to do, you need to do this. So at that moment, I was like, okay, I'm going to. fill my car with coconuts and sell them all over the country at music festivals. And I did for like three years. So this is like 2010, 2009.

2009. And this is like right when like EDM is starting to come up out. Yeah. It was very like, you know, bass nectar was like coming out around that time. Yeah. The OG's pretty lights, bass nectar. Yeah, exactly. But I wasn't doing that.

I was doing like hippie music festivals like Bonarue and Reggae music festivals. I eventually took 500 coconuts to my first music festival in Monterey Bay at the Reagan Music Festival, and I sold out. And then I took 1,000 to the next. And then I took 1,800. So you're just selling it in the parking lot? No, I was actually, I became a vendor in the events. I had a legitimate booth. And, you know, my biggest event was at Coachella, and I sold 1,800 coconuts in three days.

and I made like $22,000 in three days. And I just, you know, I had like 12 people working for me and I had the machete out. And I was the coconut king. I fucking crushed it. Did you need a liquor license for that? Of course, but I didn't have one. Oh, you didn't have one.

Yeah, I was just in Puerto Rico last month. And I saw them, the guy would come up to you on the beach with the machete, boom, pop it open, put the straw in. They did that with pineapples too. I tried it with pineapples. But what happened, this was actually, the acidity of the pineapple ate away at my fingers and I got these gnarly infections and had to go to the hospital. So I just stuck with coconuts.

Dude, this is such a killer business. Wow. It was, and I continued to do it to this day now after I got a prison. It's one of the fun things that I like to do is because I, you know, I have the machete and, you know, it's a lot of fun. And I made a lot of money doing it. And you could just pick up the coconuts in each city you went to. Well, actually, they're specifically from Thailand and they come into different ports. And so it's not just about going to the supermarket.

I have to get them now that I'm doing it on a bigger scale. I did it. I have to go pick them up at a distributor, put them in a reefer truck, and then basically meet the reefer truck wherever the festival is. Usually in a Walmart parking lot somewhere in fucking Tennessee or something. How unique. Okay. So what happens next? So you're selling these coconuts all over.

You're doing that. Well, I was introduced to the music festival scene. And I had a lot of fucking cash. I was making like, you know, $20,000 a pop at these events. And so, as you know, the music festival scene kind of diminishes, well, I guess not anymore because everybody goes to the warm climates. But back then, the music festivals really started depleting after September, October. And I had a shitload of money.

And I had just been around a ton of, you know, people doing drugs. and lots of drug dealers. And a lot of those guys sort of gravitated to my booth because it was like a party and everybody liked the Coconut King. So I eventually, to make a long story short, linked up with people from the East Coast that wanted marijuana weed from California,

which is where I was from. And I was like, oh yeah, I can get that for you. I had no idea how to get it. I just knew it was in California in Humboldt County. So I eventually made my way to Humboldt County and just started asking around and eventually bought, you know, bulk weed and started taking it out to the people that I met at music festivals and selling it to them. But that turned into something a lot bigger than getting a couple pounds at a time. As I started to progress, you know, I was first doing it in the mail like an amateur and then I was putting in on a good. Greyhound and then I put it on trains and then I put it in moving and shipping containers and

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Did you want to be cool? Are you looking at it? Because the coconut business is, you know, you had money. You could have done a million other things and you picked this. I guess I just wanted to stay busy. But this? I don't know. Like if he asked you for any other thing, would you have said yes?

Like if he said like a cocaine or... Probably not. I don't know because I wouldn't even know where to get that. I just sort of knew that I could. could get weed. Yeah. And I didn't even really know where to go except just to go up to Humboldt, start asking questions, which is a great way to get robbed, by the way.

And, you know, because that happens. People go up there and they're like, hey, do you know where to get this? And like, yeah, sure, you know. Yeah, you're a white guy that walks up there and just asking. Right. And actually, it's actually worse for minorities for blacks. Blacks go up there, start asking questions. They get robbed all the time.

Wow. But in any case, yes, I mean, I just like to stay busy. I love to make money. I didn't need to make money. I could have continued the coconut thing just in the summertime and maybe traveled, but whatever it was, it compelled me to continue just staying busy. I didn't have a job, so I needed to sort of, like, maintain the image that I was working, and that became my job.

So that first thing you said you sent the first one through the mail. How did you package that up and even go about it? Did you study anyone or did you just, you know, free go for it? I had a friend that I knew did that. And so I went to him and I asked him what to do. And that was just the basic vacuum seal in an express mail box, just dropped it in the box, didn't even do anything to hide it. Just dropped in the box and put in the mail.

I used to go to the post office, like just with my face. Like, I was such an idiot. And I did that. Yeah, that was, that was very amateur. So I sort of like learned as I went, but that didn't last for very long because I was sending really good stuff to Pennsylvania. And they wanted more and more and more. And then it eventually became to the point where I'm progressing a lot here. But, I mean, I wouldn't do anything less than 100 pounds at a time.

And how much do you get for 100 pounds? I would always, I would, no matter what, I would get $1,000 per unit per pound. So at one point, I was making $100,000 a load. But I was doing, you know, 10, 12 loads a year. So I was doing very well for myself. Now, are you the one physically driving it, or do you have carriers? Or you said something about the Greyhounds. Are you just leaving it on the bus and it gets her on its own?

No, I did do it just to like see how it worked. And I did the Greyhound at one point. And the greyhound's just really fucking sketchy. So I didn't do that for very long. I did that twice. And I did do that on my own, yes. But then I looked, you kind of really can't have a network of people. Eventually, I did have, you know, mules working for me.

But I did it a lot just on my own without telling anybody what I was doing or where I was going. And the Amtrak was my top thing. I used to bring in duffel bags to the second station after Emoryville, which is the first, or Oakland, which is the first stop in California. There's long distance trains that would go to Chicago, and I would get on the second stop because no one asked for a ticket. I get in with huge duffel bags with like 50 pounds of weed in each one vacuum sealed individually. And then I would go into the bathrooms, and I would drop the pounds into the pounds into the, shit and the piss of the septic tank. And I would have each pound vacuum seal would have like a ring on it, a brass ring,

and I put shark wire on those rings. And I would drop, I would go into the bathrooms with a backpack full of whatever I got out of the duffel bag. And then I would drop, I would take the toilet plastic thing off, duct tape it to the ceiling. and then I would drop pounds of vacuum-sealed weed into the piss and the shit. And then I would tie it to strings and there'd be like 25 pounds in each toilet on the Amtrak. And I would just go and sit down and sit back. And then two stops away from Chicago in Princeton and Illinois, I'd call in a man with a gun or something to the local police department. And then they would go scramble like 15 miles away.

and I would get off the train and get into a taxi or whatever it was waiting for me and I would just go to Chicago, get on the next train, and do it that way. I did that a lot. So you created a decoy or a distraction, so you knew that cops wouldn't be at that train station. Everyone's focused on something else. Correct. Did you have like a burner phone to make the call? Yep.

I always had new. I don't know if they still have those the way that they used to, but you just go to Walmart and get like an $18 phone and a, you know, a SIM card or whatever. I used to have, I went through hundreds of those things. So that much weed, it's what, two duffel bags fitting in? Yeah, river bags. Okay. Like, you know, do you know what a river bag is?

It's one of those things that you take on the river, and it's like, it's like an extra protection of seal. So I would, I could put 30 to 50 pounds, depending on how I sealed them. And I wasn't doing, I was eventually doing more. After the Amtrak, I started putting it in shipping containers. Like the shipping container that gets dropped in front of your home. The P-Pod. Yeah. And I would get like 50 boxes and fill them with sand and just go to the Salvation Army and get furniture.

And like in a few of those boxes there was 100 or 200 pounds of weed. And then I would send it. I would have them pick it up and then I would like intentionally put paperwork inside the the container and I would it would get to whatever you know wherever it was going and I would I would go in and I would say hey I actually need to grab something so I can go to the bank and get money because I lost my debor card and I would just go in and grab the stuff. and never pay for the shipment. So I would get these shipping containers across the country for free with, you know,

hundreds of pounds of wheat, and I would just kind of dupe them. Wow. So the bathroom thing, going back to that per second, why did you put that in the bathroom? Is that so you never got caught with it on you? Yeah, so I never told you how I got it out, too. So it sounds really disgusting. But that's the thing is that they have drug dogs and bomb-sniffing dogs that come through on the Amtrak chains.

But guess what? they never checked the bathrooms. It's just somewhere that they don't look. And they certainly are not checking the receptacle where everybody's delivering, you know, piss and shit. And is it, it's not obvious that you're walking into bathrooms with duffel bags and coming out with them empty?

I had a backpack in each duffel bag and I would transfer the units, which were wrapped, not looking like weed, into the backpacks from the duffel bag, and then I will walk into the bathrooms with the duffel bags. On these long-distance trains, there are seats upstairs and downstairs, and the bathroom area, there's like six bathrooms downstairs, and it's not in anyone's way.

Like, you could just go, there's six different bathrooms, and no one's looking that you're going to the bathroom all the time. So the first time you did this, did you do a trial around like a stakeout through the trip without the drugs, or did you just go, you know, full throttle with that? No, I did a stakeout, but I didn't go all the way across. I just went like three stops. I went from, you know, Emoryville, California to Reno.

Wow. And I realized that I had a gold mine for trafficking, and no one was exploiting at all. And so would you get paid in advance or when you get to the location with the items? I was paying for the stuff myself and then I would sell it to the guys out there. But I would front it to them because it was too much. You know, you can't like ask for $250,000 all at once. So I would give them, they would give me some and I would front them the rest. and then I was like an interchanging, you know, I would just, there was always money floating around.

I used to have money that I would find. There was so much money back then. It was ridiculous. How could you trust these people to pay you by fronting it? And how do you keep track of them? Do you have like a notebook or? Well, the first person that I started doing business with, he really needed me more than I needed him. and so he needed to pay me because I was his connection.

There was not a lot of people that were bringing it to these places. You had to have a plug and I was the plug. So if he didn't pay me, I just wouldn't do business with him and he would be out of business. But then I came to the realization that I did not need that guy and I became, you know, bigger than him. And I became him where he was. and I just sort of continued distributing my weed that I would bring out to different people until I got to the point where I started working with a pretty major drug trafficking organization in Philadelphia, which ultimately was my demise.

And how did you get hooked up with them? So I, during the time between me starting to work with them and, you know, working on my own in the drug trafficking industry, I really became a ruthless criminal. And I was violent and feared. And I used that to essentially, it was sort of like my resume for the drug trafficking organization. And what happened is they sent someone out to buy stuff from me. And I met them through a mutual friend. And I fronted this guy, 10 pounds.

He paid me for 8 and disappeared. But he used my friend's apartment as the place that we did business. And he was fucking her. So I realized that I got burned and I started fucking with her. And trashed her place. stole her car um made her life hell but what i was trying to do is not

that i was trying to get him to come back and he did and when he came back i um hospitalized him and i destroyed his car with um it was a Mercedes and um after that this was a feared

ruthless killer that came out to see me, you know, maybe kill me. And I fucking destroyed his ego and his Mercedes. And the next day after that, I got a phone call from Tyron McFadden, who was the boss. And he was sort of like, who the fuck are you? And the boss of what? What's this organization? The boss of the Tyron McFadden drug trafficking organization. He was a big time drug dealer and from West Philadelphia.

And he called me and was like, who the fuck are you? He didn't say it like that, but he, you know, he's like, I'm the guy that owns that car. And I want to meet you because no one does that to Mook. Mook was the guy that he sent out, basically take care of me. And I fucked him up with a golf club and I destroyed his car with like rocks and I just destroyed his car. It was completely totaled.

And I think I left a garden hose in it too. It was like ridiculous what I did to his car. So he called me and he's like, I want to meet you. Like I've never met anyone that has fucked with Mook. Muck is in the hospital. My Mercedes is totaled. Come meet me in Philadelphia. I'm the guy you want to talk to.

So I was like, should I? Because I was just burned for two pounds. And that wasn't that much. but I decided that it was enough to do that because, you know, it was a matter of respect and principle. And so eventually I flew out to Philadelphia and I met him in a public place at the Ritz Carlton in Philadelphia. And he, I started working for him after that. And I brought, I started bringing lots and lots of weed to Tyron McFadden starting in 2011. And, and, until our demise.

So did you become exclusive for him, basically? You cut all your other clients out. Yes. Okay. It was not necessary to have other clients. He was taking 50, 75 pound orders, 100, 200 pound orders. And so there was no need to diversify my portfolio because he was essentially the top of the food chain. And you're just going back and forth, back and forth.

back and forth. Yes. Wow. And your connect is not running out. There's a surplus of this? There was, at the time in Humboldt, California, Humboldt County, there was an abundance of marijuana being grown out there. There still is, except it's like what I was, I was usually getting pounds for like 13,

$1,500. Now they're going for like $300. Those growers are all, you know, not making anything anymore. But be that as in May. Getting back to that time period, I was going out. out there and I could get as much as I wanted on the front or, you know, I'd give him $50,000 and I was just getting as much as I wanted to. And you only stuck to weed ever. You never diversified or anything like that.

I mean, when I was at music festivals, I'd bring like a ounce of Coke and I'd sell, you know, a gram for $100 because I can make so much money off of a ounce. But in terms of trafficking, I was strictly weed. Wow. So do you think if you never attacked his, like henchmen, you never would have gotten hired by him, I guess? Absolutely not. It was so, and this is even in like my, like when I got indicted. They talk about this.

Discovery. Yeah, they say like Benjamin Friedland was introduced to the Tyron McFadden drug trafficking organization when he sent this guy to meet him and he destroyed his car. This is how it actually came to be. and I do not believe that I would have been working for him if it weren't for that. But he was looking for, you know, it's hard to pick and choose when you're running a drug trafficking organization who you want to work. So you got to find sort of people that have, you know, a certain type of character that they carry out and the kinds of guys that are not afraid of muck from Philadelphia coming to, you know, fuck you up or kill you or whatever the fuck it was that he was coming to do. to me. And so, you know, he really thought I was something else. I'm just white boy that just

did that. Were you able to work side by side with Muck? Because he had to call, the leader had to call off the dogs, right? Muck was, he was, it was almost like I took him to get neutered. He was, he like never recovered from that. I eventually, I know that he got wrapped up in our conspiracy, but like he did not recover from that. Seriously. I'm, I, I really, took it out of him. And I was proud of that at one point in my life, that I was able to have that and be feared like that. And Mook never was a part of it.

And I actually only interacted with Tyran over the phone. I never ever really met him again. I saw him like two times. But between the time that I started working with him and the time, you know, that I got locked up, we probably move, you know, we move thousands of pounds between California and Pennsylvania. What about your parents and your sister?

They must see an influx of cash. They just thought I was selling coconuts. Really? That was the front that I was, you know, selling coconuts at music festivals. But, I mean, they knew sort of. They just didn't want to, you know, they didn't care to it. Ready or not, summer is coming.

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Shop Wayfair's Memorial Day clearance now through May 25th. Wayfair, every style, every home. That was what was happening. How are you spending the money? Hotels, women. You know, I was, I was, I had it invested in some businesses like food trucks, but I, you know, was staying in four and five star hotels, like 350 days out of the year. And I spent a lot of money on hotels.

And I went on like lavish trips and dates. And I actually also in this time, I started a adult entertainment industry job. I was a performer in porn. Like a male. You were actually in porn? Yeah, I was a performer. Like you're on porn hub? Yes, I am.

I'm on kink.com. Oh, my God. What a plot twist. Yeah, sorry. I forgot. I was thinking of all the things I should talk about. With other women. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I got into porn because of an ex-girlfriend. And, you know, we did a scene. And it was very exhilarating. It was in front of like 100 people at a bar with Gia de Marco, Princess Donna, and James Dean, who's a pretty popular. He's a famous porn star. And so I did this scene at a bar.

It was called The Fountain with Gia DiMarco. And it was ridiculous. I mean, it was like, just watch the video. And I started in that industry, and then I eventually started investing in it. And I started a company called Los Angeles Porn Tours, L.A. tours and I watched a lot of my money through that business. It was the first guided tour of the adult industry ever. I started that and what we did was we had a Couturebus and the host would be me and the hostess

would be a prominent porn star and we would book the tours based on the different porn stars, you know, so one tour would be Brandy Bell. The other one would be, you know, Bailey Blue or Trinity. St. Clair. And then we would go to different stops like the Playboy Mansion or, you know, some strip club or the hustler store. And then at the end, the whole tour of 50 people would watch me perform in front of all of them.

And we would do a live porn. And then they would say that they had been in a porn. And then I was just doing all these porn scenes with these girls. How much did you get for a scene? Well, I was paying myself, but I was getting paid for the tour. So I was making thousands and thousands of dollars because I was also sponsored by Fleshlight and Orgasm.com and all these sites. So like I didn't even really have to fill the seats. I was just getting money to do the tours and make the content.

And no one knows you're this like ruthless drug trafficker. I guess some people did. Actually, some of the tours, I had some of the guys from Tyron McFadden's Enterprise come and do security for me. Wow. And actually, it's funny, you know, I'm getting off topic here, but, you know, I did, that's how I watched my money. That's what we came from. I put my money in that, and my parents and my sister, they were just like, what the fuck is this is going on here? You know, I was turning into someone that I never was meant to be.

Did you have to commit any more acts of violence along the way? Or was that just that one and done? No, that's just the one where I got into that. With Mook. With Mook and Tyromo Fadne. Yes. So, I mean, yeah, of course, there was tons of violence. I, you know, I robbed people who, you know, deserved it.

I, you know, I really hurt people. I did a lot of collections eventually. So I was breaking down doors and collecting money for other people that owed or were owed. But up until that point, I was pretty ruthless. And I did not like being fucked with, which is very difficult for me to maintain now because I'm a father and a husband. and I'm like seemingly normal. And I always think about like when someone like pushes into me, I'm just like, if you only knew, motherfucker.

So do you think where would that anger come from? I don't know, man. In childhood, you got that? Wow. I have no idea. They unleashed the beast. Wow. It just manifested.

And I did not like to be crossed. So. Yeah. Wow. I used that to my event. in my business. You can't just be some meek pussy if you're moving weight. You know, so I was a ruthless person.

And did you look the way you look now with the tattoos and everything? No. Those all came after. Yeah, that came in prison. Okay. So you really had to show that by actions that you were not to be messed with. I think so. That's interesting.

You know, I could maintain the facade of a, you know, of a, you know, of a, innocent because I had no tattoos and I was this white guy that just was seemingly normal so I did have to turn on the switch a lot and it was very helpful so how long did you do this with that organization for five years and then it got taken down yeah but before that you know I was I would you know Tyron McFadden got arrested at one point and he would turned out to be a informant he became He was an informant when I met him. What? Yeah.

Holy. So they were just collecting all this on you. Yeah. So he was working for the feds already. And I didn't know this until I was approached and told this by the FBI. But he went away for a little bit. And during that time, I was just doing my own thing. Why did the FBI and the feds let you operate for five years before taking you down?

It's my understanding that they do that quite often. But for five years? Yeah. So they were probably, do you know if they were like discreetly taken down your contacts or anything? Okay. So they were getting fed information about there was a arrest in like 2013 or 14 with TSA agents in San Diego. That was something that he helped facilitate for them to take down because at one point we were taking pounds and giving. and giving them to couriers that were going directly through the airport security

and then just hopping on planes and going out to Philadelphia. Those TSA agents were arrested. I think they got like 12 years each. So there was like arrests that were occurring that were major up into the point that we were taken down. But actually he got arrested and they lost their star informant, which is when they approached me. And so what happens on the day they approach you?

Well, it was sort of a convoluted path to get there, but I eventually made my way to the United States Postal Inspector Service. And they were utilizing, it's not clear who was utilizing him. I believe it was the state. But at this point, you know, they introduced me to the fact that he was who he was and he was doing what he was doing. and you know, you're on the radar in a significant manner with, you know, they, I had this meeting and there was three file boxes on the table with my name in Sharpie Markier. And I was like, holy shit, I'm not leaving this room. You know, I'm going to go to prison for a long time.

And that was the day that I decided to cooperate. and I don't regret it at all. But I did do that. And I never withheld that from anyone that I did time with. You know, it's interesting that, you know, this big trafficker guy before, or the leader of the organization, he's an informant. So it's only like from an outsider's perspective, you just did what he did to you.

Absolutely. I mean, this is the guy I'm supposed to trust. And he's cooperating? Like, what? Yeah. It's not like you flipped on him. No, he, I, I was, like, they knew about me because of him and others. And so it was only natural to do what I did.

And that's when I began to inform on him. He eventually got out of jail. And he, I remember the time when he started asking me some of the same questions they were wanting me to ask others. And I was like, this motherfucker, he's been fucking doing this the whole fucking time. So who did they want from you? Did they want your connects in Cali? I never gave that up, actually. No, and they didn't want that.

They wanted to maintain the, you know, the conspiracy. There was a massive conspiracy. I think there was like 35 people arrested on my case. And they wanted to help continue to have a solid government witness that would help bolster their case. And that's what they had in me. And you're the connect, technically, from these other. people's eyes. No one else knew me.

But, I mean, I had like peripheral exposure to these guys. And, you know, I was able to fill in the gaps, basically, you know, fill in the blanks for these investigators that had already been investigating me. So you would end up going to prison, though, so they didn't offer you immunity or they did and you messed it up or what happened? No, they did. They offered me the potential to get less time. I knew I was going to get time.

And so they offered me the ability to potential. get less time. But at that point I wasn't even about getting less time. I was just like, this guy fucking, you know, I was basically just appalled that that even got to that point. But I never even pictured me being in a room with the FBI, getting arrested by the FBI or any of that. So I, you know, I, I'm, don't, you know, don't get it twisted. I was, I was a ruthless violent man, but I was also a ruthless cooperator too. I love that. Did, did you? tell your parents that you're cooperating and that your approach? At one point, I remember telling my dad, listen, I'm an FBI informant, and this is what I'm

doing now, because I did that for two years. And that was not an easy conversation. I didn't tell very many other people. I couldn't. It was very dangerous. I was still doing what I was doing. But I was being, I was with the blessing of the United States Postal. inspector service and the FBI.

So how long did you operate as an informant for them? Two years. Two years. And would they let you do violence anything? Or was it limited? Did you have control? I couldn't not be that way. So they would sort of turn their back about certain things.

They didn't want to hear about it. They wouldn't condone it. But I was still doing everything the same way. I was just reporting to my handler. And did they let you? keep the money? Yeah. How does that work?

They did. Yeah. I kept the money. So it's not like the movies where they, like in the Sopranos say they take away the guy's money and leave you with pennies? No. In the end they did, though. I had nothing in the end. I was not, I did not have anything left.

So, but that was sort of my own doing because I spent it all. Yeah. If you had saved it, put it aside. You could have been good. Oh, that's shocking that they let you just operate freely. What was it like? dealing with a handler for the FBI. Is it just a normal guy in a suit?

Like in the movies and TV shows where you report to him the Crown Vic and call it a day? No, it was never like that. You know, I always met him. I always talked to him on the phone. You know, he's actually good friends of mine. He's a good friend of mine.

I talk to him all the time, still to this day. I invited him to my wedding, but he was like, yeah, man, I don't think I can do that in my professional capacity. I talk to him all the time. He's a very close friend of mine, I consider him. But, you know, the meetings were, if there was ever a meeting, it would typically be in a federal building. And I would go to it.

Or, you know, it would just typically be on the phone. Is he still in the FBI today? Yeah. Well, he's not in the FBI. He's at the United States Postal Inspector Shores. Oh, he's opposed. Yeah, those are the guys that arrested me. Really?

Yeah, the Postal Inspector. Yeah. He's a good guy, though. Like, you know, I really, I believe that I helped, you know, his career. quite substantially. And he kind of helped me out quite a lot, not with the fact that I cooperated, but with the fact that, you know, he was like always there. And I talked to him, he took my calls in prison, and he takes my calls to this day.

And we talk for like an hour at a time. It is interesting that a lot of these criminals that could take it down, become friends with the agents afterwards. Like, you look at Wolf of Wall Street. Like a lot of notorious criminals. because I guess it's such a big part of that agent's life. Yeah, and you have to really establish a solid rapport with the person. If the handler wants to get the information that is needed,

he needs to kind of move the same way and just, this guy gave me a lot of confidence, and he really helped me, you know, get to the other side outside of the criminal aura. Wow. And he's a good, he's a very good man. So at the end of those two years, do they just say, hey, you're done, you're going to sentencing, or what, what happens? No, I knew I was going to get charged.

I didn't think that because of the extent of my cooperation, they were going to still throw the book at me. But the judge in my case literally threw a book at my attorney. She threw the book at me literally in court. Like, she was like, something about some statute. She's like, see this? And she like, threw it. And I'd never forget that. The judge threw the book at me.

But she, you know, they, the United States, the AUSA, you know, recommended, I think we went in with the fact, with, you know, 36 months. And then they asked for between 60 and 84 and they gave me 70. Well, they gave me, I don't, I forgot what they gave me, oh, they gave me 84. They asked for between 60 and 96. So they like promised my attorney and I a number, which was just complete horseshit, and then they slam me. So with that much cooperation, they still gave you that. I mean, people who stole hundreds of millions of dollars get less time. I had a gun charge and a weed charge.

So I had a 924C, which is seven years and it can run consecutive to any case. So I had seven years and five years. I was supposed to get 12. So that was a mandatory minimum? That was the mandatory minimum. of them. But I got 84 months. Wow. And theoretically, I should have gotten less, considering that I was a very helpful in the case that the government put together.

And they still gave me that much time, which was, you know, it is what it is. What state was the case out of? The Eastern District of Pennsylvania. Oh, okay. And so they sent you where, as your first? prison. I was at the federal detention center in Philadelphia, and they sent, so we spoke, you know, about this previously. I didn't know if I wanted to talk about it, but I was, I eventually became a protected government witness, and so I was in a program that the United States government has for such

people, and I went from Philadelphia to my first prison, which was in Otisville. The famous Otisville. I was at Otisville and I was in a special unit for such people. And so I went from Philadelphia to Otisville and then I went, my security was breached by someone who worked in the BOP. And I was like whisked away in the middle of the night and taken to Allenwood. And I was there for a little while and then I left that program. because I was no longer needed. The FBI fumbled on some of the evidence for a double homicide in Philadelphia,

and they decided not to bring the case forth, and I walked away from ever having to be used for that. By your choice or by them? My choice, because I knew that they weren't going to be using me anymore, so my grand jury testimony was no longer relevant, and no one ever found out. I mean, they're finding out now I'm doing this interview, but... Oh, so no one in prison knew that you were cooperating?

Nope. What about regular prison politics, though, because at your sentencing, you got the decrease... I went from my first prison was, you know, a protected government witness program, and so I didn't go to real prison until I left that program. And when I finally got to those... specific yards, you know, I was never secretive about the fact that I cooperated or how extensively I did.

You know what's really interesting about that? I was really trying to remember this so that I could tell you. When I was, because there's so many people that cooperate, they're like fuck snitches and they're stitches themselves. It's such, it's ridiculous how many of those people are actually doing it. But be that as it may. a lot of times, once I got out of that program and I was in regular prison, I was very open about it. And a lot of times the heaviest hitters, the shot callers, the biggest dogs on the yard would come up to me in private and be like, hey, like, I did that too. Or, you know, like they didn't say it like that.

But these guys that are at the top, many of these guys have cooperated. And it was interesting. So I did not keep that away from anyone. And they respected that. That was something that they respected. Yeah. So what do you say when they come up to you, you just say, yeah, I snitched or? Well, it wasn't like that.

They just, you know, the first prison, the real prison that I hit was not really a prison. It was federal correctional institution, butner, medium one. This is where they send all the gang dropouts and Bernie Madoff was there. I was friends with Bernie Madoff. All like the high profile people go. to Butner Medium 1. And so they knew that I came from the program that I came from. Not because, you know, it was known because people were like checking paperwork,

but because I told people. Like, this is where I came from. So when they found out about that, the program that I was in was not something that everyone is a part of. And so when they found out about it, a lot of these like shot caller guys, their former shot callers were like, hey, were you in there with so-and-so? Like, I never knew where he went or, you know, like, yeah, yeah, I knew him.

You know, I knew boxer or whatever, whoever the fuck it was. And so they were just interested to pick my brain and, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, it was like, you know, oh, you're a snitch, I'm a snitch, too. And I was like, you know, they were really, like interested and, and, and they really respected it. What was it like to be in prison with Bernie? Um, Bernie was a very sad individual. He was one of four Jewish inmates at my prison. The two others were child molesters, and so we did not associate with them. And I was the only other non-child molester inmate that Bernie Madoff could relate to as a Jew.

And I had a lot of conversations with him, but he was a very sad man. He was a very depressed individual. He used to sit down in the yard and just stare off into the distance. and he had no contact with his family and he had a commissary count was restricted to $25 and, you know, he walked around with a walker and he, uh, he, he, he, I had conversations with him about some mutual friends that I had with him, actually. Uh, and, um, you know, he used to call his victims client. He was like, oh, my client, I used to give him the Wall Street Journal. He used to talk to me about he wanted that.

That's what he wanted for me was the finance section of the Wall Street Journal. That was a role of mine at one point was giving Bernie Madoff the financials from the Wall Street Journal because I used to get that from my friend. And so, yeah, he was, you know, it was funny like all the black guys would be like, hey, Bernie, where's the money at? Like, you know, he's just like walking away in his walker and, you know, it's fucking Bernie Madoff, dude. It's crazy. That literally is crazy. And he got no visits or anything. Not even his wife.

His wife wrote him off after his son committed suicide. Okay. I know the wife lives in Connecticut. Yeah. Ruth. Ruth, yeah. She got a little bit of money from the government and got a condo or something, Greenwich maybe or something like that.

I don't know. And I do recall that that's what happened. And yeah, she never visited him. And he, you know, he died. He had stage four kidney disease, and he just withered away. He refused treatment or dialysis, and that's how he died. In pain, he was suffering, and maybe he deserved that for what he did to specifically the Jewish community, but to others as well. And it was not a good person, but he was my friend.

Now, did you have certain pull because you were Jewish in prison? No, I did not, but I flaunted. Ryan Reynolds here from Mittmobile, the message for everyone pays. big wireless way too much. Please for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.

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this is the biggest show in the world. Buy, sell and trade at every level of the hobby. Get your tickets now at NSCC Show.com and we'll see you this. This summer at the National, the world's largest cardboard candy store. In my Judaism, I used to wear my amicca, and I went by the Jew. That was my nickname. Being Jewish in prison is a huge benefit. It's a massive benefit.

And people that are in on that know that you can talk to the Jew to help you get common fare, kosher, or grape juice to make wine or whatever. But there's a huge benefit because of the Olive Institute, they help you as a Jewish inmate to become, you know, you have more say. Like if they don't do something medically or whatever, there's a rabbi that will call the head of the, you know, the head of the chaplain services in Washington, D.C. And, you know, you'll get shit done immediately. You could get moved to a different prison. Absolutely.

There's a bunch of different, they have that power in D.C. they do have that power. They have a massive amount of power. But I was not treated differently other than that, which is actually a huge difference. But I used my intellect and I became a jailhouse lawyer. And I was doing cases for guys. And so, you know, I was, I guess that has nothing to do with my Judaism. But, you know, the Jew at Butner and all the other prisons, I was the guy that you went to for help with legal work.

Now, what I learned in, like, Dambury was that the sex offenders could hide behind being Jewish, though. The ones that were Jewish, no one bothered them because they had a certain amount of power, too. Well, I, you know, there are a lot of sex offenders in these yards, in the lows and the medium in the dropout yards. This was not a place where you needed to hide being a sex offender. You know, most, a lot of people at the yard I was at because of the way that I was, I was with gang dropouts, there was, you know, I don't know anything about hiding behind Judaism and being a sex offender, but I, you know, I know that the blacks do that. I know that the Muslims do that. So I wouldn't see why the Jews wouldn't do it.

But I don't know them to be a physical, like, car or like a group in prison that, like, has that kind of pull outside of Otisville Camp. I don't know. Otisville Camp is crazy. That's a different beast right there. It's like 75% Jewish. Yeah. They literally say you have to be Jewish to get into there. Yeah.

So I don't know about that specific question. Now, you got into some trouble in the prison or there was an article that came out about the prison that pertains to you. Can you talk about that? Yeah. So I was not a model inmate. I caused a lot of trouble. And I guess I'll lead up to answer your question. I sued the federal government and won.

and they didn't like that they transferred me to another prison I got transferred to six different prisons so I was on diesel therapy and I was known to, you know, cause issues

and I spent a lot of time in solitary. I did 31 months in solitary total but I was not afraid to call people out even if they were the captain and the warden

or just some fucker that was a CEO and that caused me to do a lot of time in solitary but it also gave me a reputation of being kind of that guy. And I, whenever something significantly bad happened to me, I would, I started to reach out to the media. The first time that I reached out to the media was the Wall Street Journal during COVID.

I talked to a journalist there because there was so much bullshit and shenanigans and lack of protection that was occurring that I reached out to them and told them like, hey, this is what's going on. and they ran my name and the story. But eventually, you know, there were other stories that came out about me going to solitary for drugs that I didn't have. There's an article. It's literally says, if you Google, like, I went to solitary for drugs I didn't have. There's an article about me. That's the one I read that one.

Oh, I was, there's another article that I thought that you were making segue to. No, I was talking about that other one, but I did read the one about Sop. That was an interesting one because they have this thing called the Narcotics Identification Kit Test. Did they talk about that in that article? I kind of briefly remember the world. That was when we had first talked was what I read. It was a while ago. But yeah, that one.

Yeah, they basically, if they want to get you in trouble in prison, they will take any piece of paper that you have and they will test it and it will come back positive for amphetamines. This $1 narcotics identification kit test that's like known to be

faulty in every department in the country is the standard, the gold standard for testing drugs

in the POP. And so if they want to get someone in trouble, all they got to do is literally take a piece of paper and test it

and it will come back for amphetamines because of the chemicals or whatever the adhesive that is in the

paper and they'll give you a hundred serious shot for introduction of narcotics. Now, what happened is, I pissed someone off to get into the shoe, and they

test a piece of paper, and that piece of paper was a court document that was sent by the court to the prison. And the last time I checked, courts don't send pages full of drugs to inmates. That's what got me off. But even though

they realized that they had so massively fucked up, they still tried to transfer me to another prison, and when they couldn't transfer me, They sent me out to the yard and they gave me this red card, which I was telling you about before the interview. And it's a card that they give to inmates that you have to check in with the officers every two hours. And it's typically reserved for like cartel leaders and like shot callers. And I was the only person at my prison with a red card that had to check in.

Like everybody knew about the fact that I had a red card. What's funny is, is that they're so stupid at the B.O. The red card literally says present this red card to, you know, whatever officer at these times. And the card was blue. Like they didn't read get the memo to like make the red card red. They printed it in blue. There's fucking idiots. And so what I what's a purpose of it?

Like to make sure. Well really it's to chastise the individual. that's on it. That's why I was on it. There's no reason for me to be red-carded. The reason is they want to keep tabs of where you are at all times. What were the different prisons you went to? I was at Otisville in that program. I was in Allenwood in the program. I was in federal detention center, Philadelphia. I was in Oklahoma Transfer Center. I was in Butner, North Carolina. Butner Medium 1 and Butler Medium 2 for 27 months of

solitary up there. And I was at USP Yazoo, Mississippi. You got all the way up to a USP? Yeah. Well, what happened is the Mariana inmates, the medium security

mariana inmates were evacuated to USP Yazoo after a Category 5 hurricane hit their institution. They evacuated that place and they sent everybody to USP Yazoo. So they had

medium security inmates from another prison at maria at us p a uzzi mariana inmate at usp yazu and then eventually they transferred us back to mariana but i had never been there so i was just bust from yazoo to uh mariana so that's where i finished my time so you weren't mixed in with any of the maximum security inmates no initially they when they first put the mariana inmates there, they did mix them in. And there was significant problems, as you can imagine. Yeah, I can imagine. Did you run into any issues there?

I never ran into issues there. I never ran into issues with, you know, torpedoes coming to get cooperators or any of that. But don't, you know, there's still politics and there's still violence at the kinds of yards that I was at. I was only at medium security yards, but they were all gang dropout yards. And that's who I associated myself with. The first time you sued the feds, what was that about? So while I was at the detention center in Philadelphia, an officer by the name of Carmen Finnelli,

he threw my plate, my dinner plate at me, through the tray slot in the shoe. And he then, after he did that, because I handed it to him and it dropped. And like he dropped it on. his shoes and he picked it up and threw it into my cell and then he kicked the tray slot and broke my finger and I was not seen by medical for 15 months. I had a broken finger and eventually after the 15 months I had exhausted the administrative

remedy program and I sued the Bureau of Prisons for excessive force and I won. And there was enough evidence? Yeah, there was a fucking video. Oh, there was a video. So you were able to get the video. video and everything. Yeah. Holy cow.

And you won money. $15,000. While you were an inmate, they paid you out. Yes. I remember getting that. I remember getting the $15,000. It was at, while I was at Butner, and I, I, I, I, they put it directly into my, my Trulinks account.

You know how you, like, you look at the Trulix account and it says like $15 or whatever so you can buy songs and stuff, like in the top right hand corner. Well, I looked at it one day and it was like $15,180. and I literally screamed. I was like, holy shit. So once you exhausted like the BP forms, the administrative process and it gets to the court level, did you have to get an attorney or you just kept in one? I was an attorney.

So you just did all yourself. Wow. I taught myself how to sue. And I read the books and I studied it and I was a pro se litigant. And that is how I established my reputation as a jailhouse lawyer is I was successfully sued the federal government. and won. That never happens. No. It's really crazy. I did. I was telling someone recently, though, but someone reached out that they sued them for getting violated from eating poppy seeds after getting out on the drug program. And the poppy seeds make you test positive for marijuana.

Yeah, opioids. Yeah. And they sued and won. And most cases, you don't win that, but they were able to win. Good for him. I couldn't even sue that. When the male guard. tried to touch me. I went after them for that, but there's no evidence, yeah. So we'll get to the story that you were talking about, but I actually also sued again for something similar to that. While I was in the program that I spoke of at Allenwood, I had a female officer exposed herself to me consistently over and over and over again, but she wasn't like attractive. She's like a 250 pound oaf, like disgusting.

And I was going through a divorce at the time, and I was just like, she was like a phone sex operator. I was, it was crazy. The whole thing was crazy. And I told her, I was like, listen, stop. Please. I'm going to fucking do a prea on you. Like, you're fucking sexually harassing me and I don't want it. Please stop.

And she didn't stop. So I did a Priya and I, I mean, there's a video of her, like, dropping her pants and exposing herself to me. I sued because they put her back in the same unit as me after that happened. and she wrote four retaliatory incident reports, which stuck until I sued, and they, like, it was a big deal. But that case, which is called Benjamin Friedland versus Beth Mattingly et al,

I lost. And I want to bring this up in this podcast. It was a rock-solid case for sexual harassment. There's video, there's evidence, all of that. But inevitably what happened is they assigned like 15 lawyers from the different federal agencies. They like pulled attorneys from the IRS and Department of Homeland Security attorneys to fight this case. And they won. And they won because I was not penetrated.

So my case, Benjamin Freeland versus Beth Mattingley at all, is now precedent for officers to expose themselves. to inmates with impunity and get away with it and use qualified immunity as the defense to do that. Wow. Isn't that crazy? Did the officer get fired? No. She's still on, she's still an officer. And now if an officer's like, oh, I want to, like, jerk off on this guy's face and I won't touch him, they can do that and they can use my case.

to defend themselves. Crazy. Yeah, it is. And it's a real case. You can look it up. So what happens with the other article? So I was moving to Minnesota when I got out because my friend, Anton Lazaro, was a very prominent, you know, member of society. He was very rich.

And he kept in touch with me. I went to high school with him. And I decided, you know what, I'm going to move to Minnesota with this guy. And I'm going to start my life off. because eventually all this shit, you know, this life, it's not a life, you know. And I wanted to do legitimate stuff. I had an awakening. And so I wanted to move to Minnesota to be with Anton and start some businesses with him,

legitimate ones. And I got my probation transferred. And eventually, long story short, is in the year leading up to my release, he started telling me some stuff which was very troubling to me about underage girls and he was doing it on the prison phone

and he was like writing me letters about how he was hanging out with high school girls and shit and I was like what the fuck are you talking about dude like do you know what I you know like

I live with just sex offenders but I still fucked with them, like, mightily. I tortured these motherfuckers in prison, mentally. So, I mean, to be a child molester is like the bottom of the barrel. And he was telling me

things, and I was like, this guy's a fucking chomo. And then I called him like six months before my release and he was like, I tell you he was in distress and he was, I was like, what's wrong? He's like, I was just raided by the FBI. I was like, what are you talking

about. He's like, don't tell anybody, please. I was like, well, for what? He's like, you're never gonna, he's like sex trafficking and child pornography. And I was like, what? What? What are you talking about? And then, and then like immediately after that, I got sent to the shoe for, I don't even know why, but I was sitting in the shoe for like six weeks and I was like thinking about like all the conversations he had with me. And I was like, this motherfucker is this stone cold chomo. And I'm to move in with him? And he just got raided by the FBI? Like, what the fuck?

So, he was also a very prominent Republican in Minnesota. And he was, you know, doing a podcast with the Republican national chairwoman, Jennifer Carnahan, whose husband, Jim Carnahan, was a congressman. He, you know, had dinner with Donald Trump and Lindsey Graham. And, you know, he had pictures with this guy. with those individuals. And he was a very prominent fundraiser for the Republican Party. And I'm forced to be reckoned with.

He was a delegate for the Republican National Committee in Minnesota. So I came to the realization that I was going to help take this guy down. And I had to figure out how to do it. What I first did was I saw, after I got out of shoe, an interview with a with a journalist named Jose Pagliari

of the Daily Beast on CNN about how he helped take down and expose Matt Gates and I was watching the CNN I was like

wait a second I need to talk to that guy so I literally like did an internet search which took like 24 hours

and I got the results back of how to contact Jose Pagliari and I cold called him from prison and I and I keep fucking picked up

I was like holy shit And I'm like looking around and everybody's like doing all sorts of shenanigans in the pod like playing poker, you know, scrabble or whatever. And I'm on the phone with this guy I just watched on CNN. And I told him like a peripheral thing about who Anton Lazaro was and what he had been, his house had been seized or whatever, the search warrant. And that this was a big story. And he was like, he was like, you know, after 15 minutes, he was like, call me back. and I just called him, like, for the rest of the day, and I talked to him.

And Jose Paglieri and I put together the story which took down Anton Lizarro. And he, it's a sensational story with lots of big names. And that story essentially was what was the, it was the last straw. And before it was published, the United States Attorney's Office asked for it not to be published. so that they could actually go arrest him. And when he was arrested, the second he was arrested, there was this fucking crazy story about the background of Tony Lazaro.

And it was published like fucking three seconds after he was like arraigned. And it was this lavish crazy story about Tony Lazaro. And the result of that story and his arrest was that Jennifer Carnahan, the Republican National Chairwoman in the state of Minnesota,

was forced to resign and there was huge huge fallout in the Republican Party around that time and I remember going back to my son I was like holy shit like I just helped take down

the Republican National Chairwoman and stay in Minnesota I'm gonna go move to and like who do I tell about that like my sally I like I told him and he's like dude are you fucking serious

like you did that and as I as I did that I I tried to contact the FBI to give them leads but ultimately what helped take him down was the article but because I reached out to the FBI I couldn't get through to them on their their like hotline it was like a third it was like an automated system so I had my friend call and then like do a third party call to the FBI I was like you know whatever it's FBI they're not going to like get me in trouble for you. this for doing third because you can get in trouble as you know for doing like calling someone and have that person call another person so i was like i told my friend adam i'm like adam i need to talk to the fbi i know i've got information about this fucking raging child molester and i want to help take him down so he was like all right no problem i'll call the fbi i and then he does we didn't get through and then they fucking locked me up for circumventing the phone system and i was punished for that

in the weeks before I was released, they put me in solitary and I snuck out through the orderly a story that made it to Jose Pagliari. And this is the article that was written about how I was basically punished for trying to do exactly what it was that I did. And that was like the BOP and the warden, they didn't like that. They were, because I made them look like fucking idiots. And, you know, I remember when they were coming through a shoe to do rounds, there was officers that were like, I'm not saying anything to you. This article is crazy. I mean, it outlines basically a lot of what we've talked about. It says, you know, a former player in the porn industry on a marijuana charge at the height of COVID was, you know, punished for attempting to help the FBI with information about a sex offender.

and I got out and I continued to work with the United States Attorney's Office and attorney representing the victims of Anton Lazaro and he was eventually sentenced to 21 years in prison and I had to go live somewhere else and that's how I ended up in Minnesota. I can't believe you're going to live with him. I can't believe it either. Imagine if that happened like while you were out? I can't even imagine. And he was he was vicious. He was he was. I don't even like to talk about it

But like some of the things that he did With the girls that he had around him It was terrible and he deserves to be in prison And he I hope he burns in hell I remember writing him a letter Basically telling him that Did you run into Jared Fogel at all or now? No but I ran into his co-defendant

I didn't even know he had a co-defendant on the case He did well He like they were tried separately Oh actually yes you're right I did I do remember he did have one He was like the president. He was something affiliated with the company.

Okay. But there was actually two co-defendants. That one guy that was his co-defendant actually like was famously his sentence was reduced and released. I believe Brandon Sample, the attorney of, you know, he's a very prominent attorney in the federal criminal justice system helped to release him. Was it Brandon Sample? It might have been someone else. I don't remember. But his sentence was reduced.

I did meet his co-defendant, though. Wow, he's getting out soon in a few years. Jared Fogel? Yeah. I heard you got stabbed. He did. I think something happened to him. Yeah.

Early on, no, he got beat up. The guy, like, hit him in the face. Something happened. He got attacked. Yep. It's crazy. His co-defendant was my sally when I first got to Butner. And I, his name was Grant Harris.

And Grant Harris, um, stole a picture of one of my friend's daughters from my photo album and I hurt him very badly why would they even put him in your cell to begin? I don't know

he was a sex offender it was it was butner there were sex offenders there I was in a cell with him I had no idea he told me he was in prison for fraud or bank fraud and I remember looking through my photo album and seeing a missing picture

and I remember exactly what it was and then I found it underneath his bed and I literally I mean I it was really bad for him and then he actually ended up in the shoe and then I took all his shit I took it all

I took all his stuff that was in myself and it was my stuff after that and then he like ended up in Elkton, Ohio I think and he actually got really sick but I don't care It's a fucking asshole.

Yeah, go on. Those types of people just deserve anything that comes their way like that. How many years did you end up doing in total? And what year did you get out? I did 77 months. Because of my not outstanding behavior, I lost a lot of good time. And they also didn't give me any halfway house time. So I should have done 67 months and then been given opportunity to go to halfway house.

but they took that away from me. So I went directly from FCI Mariana to the world. You didn't miss out on much, man. With halfway houses? Halfway houses suck. It's worse in prison. Yeah. Well, I mean, it would have been nice to just like not be in prison for six months.

But, you know, there's a lot of shit that goes on at halfway houses. I guess it's okay. But like, you know, I'm happy with where I am now. But I, you know, I did not get a fair shake in prison, but I gave them hell. Yeah, judging by everything you told me, I don't think you would have survived a halfway house. Really? They would have sent you back for something. They would have sent you back for something.

Yeah, the halfway houses are run by, you know, idiots and minimum wage, you know, workers that have a little bit of authority. And I know there's like tons of shenanigans and drugs and terrible shit that goes on there. So I probably wouldn't have survived. But I'm happy with where I am now. Yeah. So you get out and you're like this entrepreneurial hustler who just lived. this crazy life, survive prison, what happens next when you get out? And how hard is it to, you know, find your way and your footings?

Well, this is the part of the story that I'm most proud of. And that is, you know, I got out. And for the first month, I was, you know, given that I spent two and a half years in solitary, I was very affected and I was pretty traumatized. So the real world was very fast and it came really fast. And it will come fast to anybody that's released. But I had to take about a month and a half to recuperate. Got my driver's license, got my ID, got a job at Coca-Cola, pretty much slave labor, eventually stopped working there, got my CDL because I knew that there was money with that.

And I started driving a milk truck in Minnesota picking up dairy in the most remote farms on dirt roads in the middle of the winter in Minnesota with like 50,000 pounds of sloshing milk, just fucking barreling down ice roads. that was a fucking crazy job Like when it was negative 20 degrees And a blizzard I had to go out Because the cows don't stop milking So anyways I did that for like Six months

I got my PhD in trucking Because of that I was getting stuck in the fucking snow It was fucking crazy And I was like This is not for me I don't want to do this So I got another job in trucking

Driving like a ready mix truck I sort of like Got a lot of knowledge Of the trucking industry and, you know, it's an interesting thing if you want to keep the status quo and be content with mediocrity, but I am not that man. So I sort of like jumped around to a lot of different trucking jobs. And eventually, to make a long story short, I decided that I wanted to just do things on my own. And I started a company after I did a couple of transports, which I found on you.

ship. It's a platform that was used in the show Shipping Wars where people bid on loads to take. I started bidding on RVs and I got my first RV in November of 23 and I transported it and I kept on going. And I have now established an LLC and the company is called recreational transport.com and we specialize in the transport of luxury RVs and just class C, class B and class A, RVs from auction houses and dealerships to private buyers and other dealerships. So if there's a RV that's $25,000 cheaper in Virginia that needs to go to California, that would cost $12,000 to ship on a lowboy or a flatbed, I'll drive it for $4,000. So you drive it for them.

You don't tow it. Nope, I don't do that because that will require different insurance, which is very expensive. And so I get away with getting onto the client's insurance policy as an additional driver. And so I just drive these vehicles across. And I've just done over 100. Now, these are already purchased RVs because otherwise they would be like, why is there miles on this brand new RV I thought? Yeah, most of them are, all of them are used.

The ones that are taken from the manufacturer to the dealerships are typically taken on a flatbed or they'll show up at a dealership with like 400 miles or whatever. These are RVs that are purchased and they have 23,000 miles. I just picked one up in Florida a couple days ago that had 3,000 miles on it. It was a repossession. And it went from the auction house to a dealership. And so that's my bread and butter. Talk about, you know, life full circle. you literally are trafficking

again, but RVs. Trafficking RVs. I love that. You literally used what you did in the past to what you're doing now. Well, I have a really, you know, I'm very good with travel. And I became really good at it

because of what I was doing. So I, and I'm also good with geography. You know, I'm like, I'm a stud when it comes to geography. And I, I took those two things and put them to, and, you know, helped my business tremendously because I know every nook and cranny of this country when it comes to the interstate system or the airport or whatever.

I'm like, I'm an expert in travel. And this is what's helped me to expand my business is that I've been so proficient with logistics. And the ability for me to know how to get to where I need to go or to get to once I get there to where I need to go has really helped this business succeed tremendously. What's your relationship with your parents now and your sister? I have a very good relationship with my family. You know, I left out that, you know, four months after I got out of prison, I met the love of my life, Kaylee, and we got married two years later.

And we have, you know, a beautiful daughter. And she's three months old. and that, you know, helped cement the fact to my parents and my family that I'm not involved in the kind of things that got me to prison in the first place. So my family relationship is is very, very good now. I'm very good. My sister was in my wedding. She was a, what is it? Bridesman?

She was a bridesmaid, yeah. What about explaining to your wife your whole story? Like you had it, what's that? Because there's so many guys that, and you met her four months after prison, there's so many guys that are in that position where, you know, they're nervous about dating or how to explain that? Like, if they don't have a platform like me, if I meet someone, everyone knows I went to prison. But if they're someone that doesn't have a platform and they're out there, you know, how do you have that conversation? Well, that was that was one of the things that helped us be together was that, you know, when I first met my wife, she had just gotten her second DUI. and she was very embarrassed about it

and you know that was kind of like how we met in a tattoo group on Facebook and and you know she wanted to know more about my story when I posted all my tattoos on Facebook and I got all the friend requests that I got and so we started talking that way

but you know when we did start talking it was about her DUI and I actually helped her write a motion so that she could I forgot what the motion was about but like shoot I was like oh I can help you with that because I've done so many fucking motions and 2255s and habeas corpus petitions that, like, I knew what she needed for court.

And I just wrote out this, like, really detailed motion. And she was like, what the fuck is this? Are you serious? Like, how did you do that? It was easy. And that's like what she did not, she was not a criminal. She is not a criminal. She's the straightest person ever.

But my experience and my redemption really helped her. and she stuck with me through my redemption because I was not a, you know, my history is not good. And so when I told her about a lot of this shit, you know, it was not something that like helped the relationship initially. But she saw that I was changing and I did change. And I, you know, 14 months after I got out of prison, I bought my house. And that is crazy for anyone to do, given that. I walked out of prison with a net bag full of books and nothing to my name. 14 months later, I owned a home.

And I started the business. Thanks to a inheritance from my grandmother, I paid my home off last month. So I'm mortgage-free. And I continue to have a very solid business. And, you know, a lot of people that are coming out that I'm in touch with still, they reach out to me and I help them. and that's what helps me to help others. And I'm, you know, I have a very positive story to tell because I came from the depths of crime to running a business, being a homeowner, a husband, and a father.

And it has not been easy to do that. It's not, there's no fucking, you know, redemption for dummies book. It's not easy, man. You're going to go write it out. You know, I want to tell my, I want to be on as many platforms. as possible and use this podcast as a way to tell people like you can do what I did and you can continue to do it and stay in prison and you can get to prison by associating with people who are already informants and you can do it you know you can you can do life after the shit storm of backwards

on purpose the Bureau of Prisons this is there is you can do it doesn't matter who is in office, you know, I did what I did during the Biden administration, but I do not owe anything to Joseph Biden. I am my own independent man and I was able to succeed on my own volition. And it's possible. So I like to talk about that because if you can will it, you know, if you can see a vision, you need to bring it through to fruition because it can be done. If I can do it, so can you. Trust me. You know what I mean? Like I had nothing two and a half years ago. I'm going to go home to my wife and my daughter and my home that I own outright. That's awesome. Well, Ben, thank you so much, man, for coming on. And literally, I was at the edge of my seat this entire episode. This was so good,

man. I hope that, you know, it's a good story for the audience. Yeah. It's one of those like hidden gem stories that pop up. And, you know, you had never shared your story before and you, you know, you sent me these articles and, you know, I think you might have been a little skeptical on whether to share it or not, and you did it, and you did really well, and I think it came out really good. Awesome. Yeah. Well, I'm glad to hear when it comes on, and, you know, I'm really excited about, you know, sharing my story.

And I'm glad that I can do it. I didn't know who I was going to do it with. I was supposed to do it with Vice. I saw that you had some kind of docuseries on Vice. Yeah, I did it with Vice. They added so much shit, like all of these platforms, they take what you say, and it's never what you want it to be. You know, with this, everything, you said, nothing gets cut.

Good. It's just your story. And it has the good parts, the bad parts, the redemption arc. You know, that's what I love about this. I know we have to stop here in a second. But with the Vice thing, I did this whole story like this with Vice, with a journalist named Keegan Hamilton. Oh, you did film something.

It was filmed. Yeah, it was filmed. We did, I think it was audio and film. and then like two weeks after my interview, Vice folded. Yeah, they went bankrupt. Like two weeks after my interview. When did you interview with them? It was April of 2003.

So they scrapped your interview? They let go of the journalist, Kegan Hamilton, and he has still my story. Like, he kept it, and he was going to try to do it, but like he couldn't. Like, not soon enough. I needed to find another outlet. So this was going to be vice.

We're vice right now. Wow. So why do you pick this one? What? Why do you pick this one? You? Yeah. I listened to your podcasts and, you know, you interview well and I felt that it was the appropriate venue.

Because, you know, I really needed to tell my story and you seem like a good person to tell it to. It could have been, you know, vice, but they fucking dropped the good. They folded. Well, I'm sure after this comes out, you're going to get a lot of requests, man. I hope so. I'd love to tell my story to others. Yeah, I see Vise is doing other stuff too. I don't know.

They're kind of... They're not what they used to be. They definitely got off path from what they did. They had a lot of random shit. When I got out, I said, I want to tell my story to Vice. The only person I want to tell it to. Why Vice? Just because before I went in, Vice was like the fucking...

They were at the top of the game. That was like the best investigative journalism that was out there. And so my story is very crazy. And I wanted to tell it to them because I thought it would be an appropriate fit. Yeah, they covered my trial and they did an article. I remember that came out and everyone was like, oh, he's on vice, this and that. And then they did that little mini documentary thing that's on YouTube. But it never really went anywhere with them because of all their issues.

Yeah. Well, it would have been a fun place to work. when they were initially, like, going crazy. And they were having, like, cocaine-filled parties and just, like, crazy. There was some crazy shit. So do you still do the coconuts now? I do, actually. Yeah, I just did my last event in Colorado.

I sold 650 coconuts. I actually now, instead of just doing the coconuts plane or with ice and a shot of rum, I actually do a pinocalada. So I do, like, a mix. I open the coconut. I use the coconut water, ice, pineapple, coconut chunk, and rum, and I put it back into the coconut and serve pina colada. And those fly. I've done coconuts at Live Nation events.

And so I'll probably end up doing four to five every year, which is enough for my supplemental income. It's really fun. I really enjoyed you. I hope one day that I can give you a coconut. cocktail. Yeah, no, I'd love to try. Maybe I'll hire you one day or something, you know, if I have a big event or something. I would be happy to be there with my machete and my coconuts.

Yeah, if I ever get like a movie premiere or TV season. I'll be there. Yeah, that would be awesome. Do you have like a website or something? Well, the only website that I have for my business is recreational transport.com. And then I just sort of like, I really should have like a coconuts. You do. You need an Instagram page for that and take the pictures.

I know. I have them on my personal. Instagram Benjamin Ellis Friedland. We'll put all the links for that in the description. I need to start a specific one for coconuts. And make a TikTok for it. I feel like that would go viral. Like, you know, people love how foods created. Like just you put the camera on it, cracking the coconut, making the drink, put some music behind it.

We'll have to put a link of me opening a coconut. I'll show you one after we're done with this interview. It's very entertaining. Awesome. Well, it sounds great, man. Thank you again for coming. Thanks for trusting me with your first official interview. You first of many.

This is, this is, I told you before and I told the guy that just left, like, it's like therapy. Like, I needed to get it out. It's very helpful. So thank you. Good. I'm glad. Well, don't say it's like therapy because I said it before all the comments there's written me. They're like, it's not a therapist.

It fucking is like therapy. It's the same shit. Yeah. It's better than therapy. I can't believe I just, I was recording for five hours. I did three with him and then two with you. Oh my gosh. I know, two magic mind shots in right now.

Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you, man. You're welcome.