Locked In with Ian Bick - How I Survived North Carolina State Prison | Rob Eason

Episode Date: April 25, 2024

Discover Rob Eason's narrative of grappling with the consequences of his college dealing, leading to his incarceration in North Carolina State Prison. Through resilience and adaptation, he not only survives his circumstances but thrives, offering profound insights into overcoming adversity and rewriting one's story. Shoutout to Mike Tyson & Tyson 2.0 for always hooking it up! https://tyson20.com/ Support Aaron Jabot's backpack Ministry: https://goodshepherdgf.360unite.com/donations-online Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Rob Eason: https://www.instagram.com/robsgonemia/?hl=en Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:04:41 - Early Life and Career Development 00:09:03 - Rebellion and the Search for Identity 00:13:30 - Thinking Outside the Box 00:17:40 - The Wrong Mindset for Success 00:21:51 - Choosing a Different Path 00:26:13 - College 00:30:45 - Filling the Void and Becoming Disciplined 00:35:23 - Overcoming Adversity and Finding Support in Prison 00:39:40 - Building Trust and Integrity 00:43:58 - The Lack of Trust in Contracts 00:48:11 - Standing Up for Friends and Oneself in Prison 00:52:38 - The Types of Prison Facilities and Inmates 00:56:57 - Hustling in Prison 01:01:10 - Finding Success After Prison 01:05:31 - Overcoming Obstacles and Writing Your Own Story Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Still crazy stuff that happens. I remember one guy got like oil from the kitchen. They put it in the microwave and poured it on this dude. And it was a guy that I had almost got in a fight with the week before that did it. And I was like, thank God. Like I saw my face. What's up, guys? And welcome back to the Lockton with the InBick podcast.

On today's episode, I have Rob Eason here to share how dealing in college lands him in a North Carolina state prison, where we learn how he survives, gets out. and is able to overcome his struggles and turn it all around. I want to give a huge shout out to Tyson 2.0. I'm rocking their hoodie right now. I got to go to their 420 event in New York City this past weekend. Got an awesome picture with the legend Mike Tyson himself, wishing him the best for his upcoming fight with Jake Paul.

And guys, make sure you check out Tyson 2.0. I absolutely love their edibles. Do them every night before sleep. and it really, really relaxes you and makes you feel really comfortable. And, yeah, try their products. I love, love, love, Tyson 2.0. And also, they have amazing hoodie. It's super comfortable.

Check them out. Also, I had a great time at the NARP conference, a National Association for Reentry Professionals annual conference last week. And I got invited to speak to the inmates at a correctional facility. and I even got to interview the warden, the superintendent, William Cope. His episode is going to be coming out in a few weeks. I interviewed him inside the correctional facility where I got to tour it. Check out the behind-the-scenes footage on my TikTok, Ian Bick, to check that out.

I also need to give a shout out to Aaron Jabbit, who is a guest on the show. He's a part of a back-back ministry in Glen Falls, New York, which supports adults returning home from incarceration. I'll have the link in the bio if you are interested in donating to the cause. Now sit back, relax, and get ready to lock in with Rob Eason. Let's get into it, man. Rob, welcome to Locked in. Pleasure having you today. You came from North Carolina.

Charlotte, North Carolina. Yep. How was a flight? It wasn't too bad at all. It was like three-hour flight, easy one. It came right into Westchester, White Plains, so about an hour away or 30 minutes. Yeah, it's not bad. It's a good airport.

You know, for small, you can kind of go in and out, and it's close to the studio. And there's warm weather here in Connecticut. I was, I was expecting it to be freezing. It was like, what, it's like 70s? Yeah, the last few days have been really, really nice. Today, it's supposed to hit 70. But normally it's cold this time of year. I would expect so.

Yeah, it hasn't been much snow the last couple of years. I used to live in Massachusetts, but I just came from Miami and L.A. for the past two years. And so I was way used to the warm, and I'm glad that. it's finally warming up around here too for sure. We're in Massachusetts? Concord. Concord. Isn't that like a famous historical?

It is. It's where the Paul Revere and the Civil War, not Civil War. Battle of Bunker Hills. The Revolutionary War started, yeah. I think we went there in middle school. It's where the old North Bridge is, where they're like Paul Revere hung the lanterns. You know that story? I don't know if everybody knows that story or just kids that grew up in Concord.

No idea. No, no, we were, I mean, we learned about it up here in school. Yeah. That whole time, the Revolutionary War was huge. I took AP, U.S. history, which actually wasn't that bad. It was interesting to learn about all that. I like AP history, too. Yeah, I think that out of all the AP classes, that's one of the better ones.

Yeah, world history was probably my favorite. And then, yeah, U.S. history was about second favorite class, too. What was it, like, growing up in Concord? Concord. So I moved there when I was it. I was 12, no, when I was six. And so six to 12, and I had a southern accent. So my dad moved a lot. So we moved up and down the east coast. So I was kind of like an outsider, I guess, southern accent in a northern city. But I loved it, though. I loved the snow. My dad sold us well

on the snow and on it being fun. But yeah, I mean, I moved out when I was, moved back South when I was 12, so memories, you know, not, that wasn't an adult, so I don't remember it too well. Where were you born? What state? Uh, Georgia, born in Atlanta, and then parents moved up to Mass. Um, my parents were like missionaries and pastors when I was, they met in like seminary, uh, virgins until marriage, like very, very religious, good people. And then, um, my dad, like felt called to do more. he got into real estate. And then we moved to Massachusetts because he actually went to Harvard Business School.

And so we came up here for that. And then back south when he started his first entrepreneurial ventures. So he gave up like the church life to go into business? Wow, I've never really heard of that before. I think he just felt like he could make more of an impact

in a way that was still, you know, for the better of everybody in business. And he's definitely doing that. Right now, he's got a baby bottle that is like a new type of baby bottle that's eliminating nipple confusion, which is where the baby doesn't go back to the mom after they use a bottle. And so he's involved with cool projects. And I definitely think he's probably feeling more fulfilled than he did before. How old was he when he went back to Harvard or went to Harvard?

He was like 40 or something like that. So an older guy definitely for going to Harvard Business School, and they definitely don't take a lot of pastors either. And so he was, but they do like somebody that has kind of a different profile than typical. So he was older for sure. He was, you know, I was graduating from elementary school, right, as he graduated from Harvard Business School at 40, I think.

Wow, that's incredible. What an incredible story. Did you have siblings at all growing up? I've got one younger brother. Yeah, what about you? I have a brother. He's 24. 24 how old are you now 32 you're 30 so you got four years on me yeah yeah I'm 28 um were you guys

close grown up yeah me and my brother were always really close um right now he's out in colorado he kind of uh he loves skiing and uh loves the wilderness so he went that way he like took a gap year after high school hiked the AT and then decided i want to go and like work on ski resorts and ski and so that's kind of what he's been doing the past few years. So how old were you when you got locked up? I was, I got arrested at 19, under investigation at 18, like my whole year of 18, indicted at 19 and then I was arrested at 21. Jeez, bro.

You were into some stuff at a young age. Yeah, I owned a nightclub, man. At 18 years old, I got in the concert business when I was 15, had a very successful business in high school. and, you know, the last few guests have always, I've been, like, very interested in my story. It's kind of, it's interesting, like, when the host, because not that many podcasts are where, like, the host has an interesting story, too. So the guest always likes to chime in and, like, and ask questions and stuff. It's cool to see, like, that perspective.

Yeah. I don't want to be too redundant for your audience, so I don't want to, like. They learn something new every time, you know, because everyone asks, it's like, it kind of applies to the show because every time I have guests, with similar stories, but everyone has a different answer. Right. And I'm able to draw something new from each guest because everyone has their own personal experience. Right.

So when guests come and ask me different questions, it just kind of puts a different perspective on it. Yeah. I think, you know, when you try to relate to somebody else who's been to prison, knowing like how old they were when they went, you know, how long they were in there. Are the basics for kind of how you frame digging out the similar and different experiences between the,

between the situations. So you went in for how many years again? I got a three-year sentence and I did about 24, 25 months. Yeah, I got three to five and then I like worked my ass off the entire time to make sure I got that minimum. And I did. I got the minimum. So thank God. So was it hard to move around as at a young age, like going to different schools and growing up like that? I think it was for sure. I had ADHD and so I was on like Adderall and I think that gave like increased my anxiety. Also, like, I just had to break in the new social groups like every five years, every time he moved. And I think it was hard, but it also made me much better at doing that overall, which helped a lot going through a lot of new situations later in life. So I think it built a

skill, but it was definitely hard for me at a young age. How do you think your parents would have described you during your young adolescent teenage years? just rebellious. I started like getting into getting into drugs, trying to kind of find my like, you know, the group I'd fit in with when I was probably like middle high school is when I first

started smoking weed a little bit. And I think it definitely kind of pushed me into that direction, just kind of looking for a place to fit. But even besides that, I was definitely a troublemaker. I would like pick on my brother a lot. You can see a lot of places where that tension like played out into the choices I made and the things I did. But thankfully, I think prison actually helped me like firmly decide to put a stop to all that.

I think it kind of helped me like kind of figure out what I was made of in a different way too. and so for me it was it was kind of necessary if I hadn't had gone through that I probably still would be into the same kinds of things what do you think it was for you that drew you to those groups of people brought you down into that kind of path I think people always I felt like they looked at me like even though my dad was a pastor when I was born they looked at me kind of like I was privileged and I always felt like I had a chip on my shoulder to like prove that I was as tough or is like capable as else. And so I think part of it was me kind of trying to prove something to somebody or to myself that kind of drew me in that path. And I think the other part is the people that get into drugs and

get into those things, they also usually have a similar, they have some kind of pain in them, right? And so I think we connect with each other on that level. And sometimes it ends up taking it further in the wrong direction, for sure. What do you think your pain was now that you're older and you have a deeper understanding. Just finding like social acceptance, I'd say probably, honestly, moving so much. I felt like me and my brother always really tight, but it took me a long time to kind of feel connected. And I'd say I didn't really feel that way until halfway through high school. And we stayed in North Carolina for a long time. So that was really part of why I finally kind of connected with a group there. Do you think you ever solve that internal pain? Yeah, for sure.

I think I kind of had to figure out who I was in a different way and align myself with something strongly. You know, figure out what my purpose was in a way. And I think going through prison, you know, I realized no longer, or am I going to have like a bunch of options where I feel like anything's going to be easy for me. It became like, okay, now you've got like two or three options. and I had to go all in and I knew that if I did do well that I would have a story that I could tell that would be impactful

and so then it was like real easy for me to choose you know if it kind of like define myself in a little in a way obviously prison can define you negatively too but it kind of gave me something to to align myself with and I found a lot of string through that and identity I guess

I guess. What do you think could have been an alternative route you could have taken to kind of help give you that healing, I guess you were looking for at that age aside from turning to drugs and going down that path? Was there something else that there could have been for you? Or maybe looking back on it now, something that there should have been? It's hard to say. I can't say. What do you think?

I mean, I think for me, like, if the schools were at that time, I don't know how high school is now or college is now. or colleges now, but if it was more welcoming to someone with an entrepreneurial mind, someone that thinks outside the box, because back then they punished you for that. And they could still do that now. And I think even the world kind of still like punishes outside of the box thinkers. Yeah, for sure. Like when I went to prison and I got out on probation, this is a perfect example. Like the probation officers, they just roll their eyes when you see you want to get into a business. Like, because that makes their job harder because they don't understand. it. Even when I was on pre-trial release, you know, not even found guilty going through that. They kept asking the court, why can you just work a normal job? And, you know, it was well within my right to continue to own my own business. So I think that's something that needs to change

because people that are outside the box thinkers, they don't grow into that. That's a given, you're born with that, I think. I think so too. And I think if we focus on developing it at a young age and helping that, you know, like all the things I learned in school I don't use now. No. Like, why did I need to take algebra? Why did I need a struggle geometry? That's exactly what I was thinking about to say geometry. Yeah, like all of these bullshit classes.

Like the basics, yes. You know the capital of every city, every state in the country. And just the pressure you put on kids, like I think about, and I was talking about this on a podcast recently, like the amount of pressure there is on kids to get good grades in the AP classes and stuff. You ask any one of those kids that went to college, they didn't use. those AP classes. You know, it's just there's so much pressure, like live. You know, live, find something you want, focus on the sports, whatever you want to do, but not that the grading

system, all of that. You said it well. It's like, it's not inspiring or exciting to think of, oh, yeah, one day I'll have a job nine to five the rest of my life. It's not exciting at all. And I think I always needed like a higher level of excitement, which is part of why I was like, drawn into the world I was drawn into. I think that if there is more of a mentor system and entrepreneurship was more like, if there were better systems to facilitate it, I love online courses and things like that

and the way that we're able to see more entrepreneurs through TikTok and through Instagram in a way I don't think that younger generations did. And so we can kind of connect with them and there is an exciting path that is not selling drugs. I think we're kind of flooded with selling drugs in the media, music, TV. It's like

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Go sell drugs it kind of seems like. Yeah. Meanwhile, you see all these news articles. Like, I'm looking in Connecticut, they want to ban phones and TikTok for schools. Like, TikTok is a great tool. Maybe there needs to be a better filter on what's like bullshit. Like I see a lot of business guros or whatever. Like I look at that. If you write like you're a six,

figure earner in your Instagram bio with a rocket ship next to it or something there's a good chance. I think I have that in mine. Oh, you have a six figure earner? Seven. No, but like there's a lot of people that do write that. Yeah. That it's just not like I get a lot of DMs about like business opportunities and this and that and I know that like that's not. Yeah, exactly. And so you see a lot of TikToks around that.

So maybe that would be a good thing. But like you were saying real lived experience needs to be brought into schools. It needs to brought into schools. And I think I think there could be a better like platform system. I think it's kind of Alex Hermosie's doing with school, his platform for courses. I think if there was more transparency and they had reviews. And it was like, you know, here are all the course creators or coaches in this category. Here are their accolades. This is validated.

This is not validated. The idea I was telling you about the nonprofit that I have with the guy that was kind of my best friend in prison. and that's basically the idea is to connect people that have been successful through the same trauma. And so like a platform specifically for coaches

that have been through prison, right? And so you're in prison or getting out, you know, you have apps and phones in there now. If you could see a guy who came through prison and was being very successful and you knew it was legit, how much of a different mind space would you be in

than being surrounded by guys who say the only thing you can do now is go sell drugs? Because that's really the, the narrative in there, that there's not many other options, but to go back to the same lifestyle. I don't know what it is in the feds. Yeah, I mean, and the feds, like,

a lot of the guys would gravitate towards me because they were interested in how can it, they're doing 15 to 20 years. I'm doing three years, and the mindset is how do we get more for less time? And that's the wrong mindset. But if they were teaching you like, hey, you can literally go to prison, come out and share your story about prison,

you can make six figures a year. or you could do this or you could do. There's so many opportunities. That hustler mentality that put you into prison can make you very successful on the outside. I think if they were just able to pull open this app and see, like, instead of having to listen to that bullshit, if they just had a wall of things that are true,

but other entrepreneurs that went to prison that are up being successful and you could go and watch their stories. And they're like, damn, that's actually better than selling drugs. The lifestyle this guy has. and then learn their courses while you were in prison and come out and work for them, more of a mentorship type situation,

I think would be a much more effective rehabilitation. And I think it'll help in the drug aspect of things too, where instead of these drug programs that they put in schools, bring someone like a guest that's been on our show that can tell you the rock bottom they've been through, sit them down, have them tell their story. I guarantee you that's going to inspire more kids and not do drugs and go down that path

to see what that person lost and went through than saying don't do this or don't do that. 100%. It's hard to trust somebody's opinion that hasn't made the mistake before. My parents are amazing people, but I was always just,

you know, I didn't want to listen to them because I was like, you know, they were straight edge. But it's definitely much more helpful to hear from somebody who's paid the price. a lot of the guys I've connected with since I've gotten out I know for a fact that they would probably be selling drugs if we hadn't have been working together and I'm like

but they know me and they know I'm like dad not worth it don't do that here's the better way and that's what it takes it just takes a better example and life's all about perspective and this is something I lacked early on you have to look at the perspective of the future in the sense where okay you're selling drugs now you're making a bunch of everything's great, but eventually it'll come to an end or you get caught. And when you put the perspective of, okay, I made $200,000 in a year, but then I end up losing

four or five years because I go to prison and this and that, if I just skip the drug aspect and then focused on a good hustle, I could have two times or three times as much as that over the course of the six years and not be put five steps back. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to lose all that time. And for me, it was obvious, you know, once I got arrested that it was not worth it. Beforehand, I was like, I'm going to make so much money by the time I get locked up. It won't matter. And that's far from it.

They took, you know, legal fees, fines, wiped me completely dry, for sure. So did you go to college? Yeah, I went to, I don't know if you know Chapel Hill, like the Tar Heels. Yeah, isn't that a top school in the country? It's a top school, yeah. You went to Chapel Hill? I graduated right before I got locked up. So you were selling drugs in college?

In college. Yeah. Were you selling it all in high school? or just kind of just double dabbling in the world? Dibble dabbling. I really just smoked a little bit in high school. Not much. College is when I started experimenting more.

And I remember I had this moment where I was like trying to learn chemistry. And I was like, dude, I do not want to be a doctor. I was like doing this shit for, first off, I was like, this is a scam. The shit they're teaching us is not valuable. And I was like, I'm going to have to start a business. I don't know how I'm going to get the money. So I'm going to sell drugs and try to figure it out. And then start a business.

I had a panic attack one night. I remember thinking about what life would be like if I did successfully get the job I wanted in college. And I was like, it's not the future I want. And it was too late for me to go to B school because I already screwed up my grades in chemistry. They had like a minimum score requirement for business school at Carolina.

And so I started trying to make my own plan. And I think one thing that's tough, though, is once you start selling drugs, it's really hard to put that money into something else. You tend to just think of ways to sell drugs better instead of other types of businesses, I feel like. So you were going to school to become a doctor? Originally, that's what I was thinking. And then I changed to just what I was interested in. So I ended up going to sociology.

And then we had a class that was sociology statistics, like soci-stops. that and we would analyze, we learned how to use like statistics to analyze people's behaviors and the kind of things that they'll be interested in or things that they'll do based on their like census survey. And that's when I was like, I realized naturally I'm very gifted in statistics and I was like, I want to do marketing with this. And so I kind of knew that's what I wanted to do. And the funny thing is now as an entrepreneur, that has ended up being like the main thing that that I'm good at. And I have a job owning a business doing what I thought I wanted to do for somebody else

when I was in college after prison. And so I'm like, it's crazy that I don't even know how I would have achieved that if I didn't sell drugs. Oh, yeah. Yeah, go ahead. That's a pretty much it. Do you think that there was a lot of pressure to go straight from high school to college? Yeah.

I mean, I put it on myself too. I felt like it was what was expected. like I'd be a loser if I didn't go to a good school. And then I end up in there and really thinking about what life's going to look like after. And I was still just like, I'm not quite buying into this. This is not for me. But my dad, being such a high, you know, high achiever, definitely, I definitely wanted to follow in his footsteps. And so I think one time they found out that I had done psychedelics. And my dad tried to, like, not send me back to school.

And I was like, uh, and I like took the rest of tuition out on my own, in my own debt and went back. So I was like, even though I didn't know what I wanted to do, I was firmly like, uh, I want to go to school. And I think it was more because of what was socially, what I thought was socially expected, than what I, that I would actually use it, you know. Did you go through like the party phase in, in college? For sure.

That's what got me into drugs in the first place. So a little bit of partying. I wasn't like in a frat or anything. A little bit of partying. And then more just selling, it became more just selling drugs. And what kind of drugs did you start selling? I started with weed and psychedelics and then it just escalated and escalated to whatever. People were actually buying psychedelics in college.

Yeah. A lot. Yeah, that was actually the first thing that, besides weed, the first thing that I tried in college. I don't know, maybe it's not common in all schools. Did you go to college at all? Never went to college. I think it's pretty common. I think that's where people experiment with that a lot.

The psychedelics? And how does that work? Is it just like mushrooms? Yeah, like mushrooms or acid. And I think a lot of people in college are wrestling with just the Matrix. thinking about the system and like, you know, this is what the rest of my life's going to look like. Those are the years where you're kind of figuring that stuff out and psychedelics or something, you know, obviously something people will be drawn to that are looking to think outside the box.

And so that definitely had a big impact on me. Good or bad. Here we are. I mean, it was the best thing that probably could have happened to you. I think that, I think the main thing that it indicates is that I was looking for some answers that I didn't feel like I had. Whether or not it helped me or not, I think it just more says something about my discontent with, or like, with the system more so. What's some barkup on psychedelics compared to other drugs? I mean, from like the actual cost of making it, it's like extremely high. But you weren't cooking it?

No. I was doing like selling mushrooms, and there's still a crazy markup on acid and mushrooms, depending on how much bulk you buy. But cocaine was the most money for sure. And that's what you got into. And that's what I got into. Yeah. Now, cocaine isn't that like puts you more on a bigger radar, especially in college, as like the coke guy. Like I know in high school, the guys that were selling weed and stuff.

Yeah. More common now, the ones that are on that next level of cocaine, it's a little bit of a different bracket. That's a much higher level. 100%. And I didn't know. I knew that it was, you'd be on more of a radar. I didn't realize quite how much more serious the time was, which is much, much, much more serious.

I mean, I knew it was worse. But I guess I thought like, I was like, oh, I'm smart. You're not going to catch me. I kind of thought it was like they'll get the dumb guys first. And I think that was just my way of justifying it. Because that's really not how it works at all. It's more like anyone can snitch on you. And you never know what somebody's going to do until they, until they're in that situation.

And that's exactly what happened. somebody that I was hanging out with I don't know exactly who it was I didn't put his name on the paperwork because I didn't take it to trial it said confidential informant but I do think I know who it was

I had a gut feeling like strong two days before the cops came and so it definitely put me on the radar I think it's safe to say that I wasn't making the best decisions at that time of my life so not too much logic

behind it, I don't think. How much were you making selling? Probably like 10K a month. Nothing crazy. To me, it was in college. I was like, this is a lot. But certainly not worth three years of your life. And that's the profit after expenses? It's hard to remember. Probably so. Are you selling it just out of your dorm room? We had an apartment after a sophomore year. I don't think I ever sold drugs when I was in the dorms. So it was after I moved out. Yeah.

And are a lot of college kids using cocaine? For sure. Yeah. Is it to help them? Or is it more of a party drug? More of a party thing. More of a party thing. But you see people experimenting with drugs in all ways in college for sure.

You know, people try to use them to help them work or they try to use it for just about, you know, anything. People are just testing stuff out a lot in college, I would say. And were you using it yourself? Yeah, for sure. Um, the first time I did Coke, I was like a sophomore and the girls across the hall brought some over. I was like, I was like, all right. Um, but I never used it, uh, outside, outside partying. Um, I was prescribed Adderall and that stuff still. And I didn't quit using that until after college. Um, but yeah, so I never used used it all day, but I would smoke all day for sure in college.

I wonder where this whole thing of like cocaine and girls came from. Yeah. Like it just like attracts them as like the like when I used to like go out and, you know, even be around the club and stuff. Cocaine always attracted the women. Yeah. Whereas like weed like you're not going to say, who wants to go get high? Like it just doesn't have the same effect.

It's not a sexy. Weed's not as sexy as cocaine. It's not. I don't know why either. Probably movies. Yeah. It's amazing. Where to start though.

Who knows? Yeah. It's amazing how it's like brought that up and it's put it into young people's minds and and they just gravitate towards that. And now it's more dangerous than ever because people are lacing it and all of these things. It's not like what it used to be.

No. I think it's definitely a lot more dangerous and I hate that it has that sexy... We're almost halfway through the year and a lot of people are running on empty without fully realizing it. Grow therapy helps you find care that's covered by insurance

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Growtherapy.com slash book now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. I see appeal because that means a lot of people are going to fall right into it. Yeah. Now, did you need the money? Like, were you hustling to actually make this money? Couldn't you have asked your parents? What was the drive for you?

So they, so I had my tuition on a loan, and I was selling drugs. I was telling myself to start a business in hindsight. I look back and I think I was selling drugs to fill a different kind of hole inside myself. Like I told you earlier, I felt like I kind of had that chip on my shoulder. And I think I was doing it out of, you know, I had my logical reasons in my head. And maybe if I had known some like some mentors that were actually making like, you know, 20 grand a month in sales. Like I didn't know that you could do that when I was that.

age. So maybe if I did it would have been different. But my logical reason was to save up money to start a business. And emotionally, I think I was trying to find, trying to get like respect, feel validated, girls, all these things that I ended up specifically, you know, when I got locked up, I was like, I remember in jail, just like really, really taking some hard looks at myself in the mirror and I was like okay well I'm going to learn how to meditate I'm going to read the whole time in here I'm going to get fit I probably weighed like 125 pounds and I got locked up I was tiny and I realized I was doing all these things to fill that hole in myself and so I was like you know I don't know if I'll ever be able to fill that hole but in here I'm damn sure going to try

and so that was when I really became disciplined before that I wasn't disciplined I wasn't discipline in a lot of areas of my life. But I'd say for the past 10 years, I mean, I'm the kind of guy that works like 12 hours, 16 hours a day, and I have for 10 years now. And so I tried, you know, I attacked all those things that I felt like I was using drug selling to fill. And it definitely helped a lot, you know, being, I think more than anything, it just gave me, like, direction and gave me some other habits that were better to fill my time with. get validation through more healthy ways, like, in the gym and at work and stuff like that.

So bring us to the day you got arrested. Was it like a controlled buy or how did that go down? Or they just showed up at your doorstep? So I was under investigation before. And so I know that they were on me. But the time, and so they had like, I got arrested maybe twice in the six months before the last time. And so it was like no charge. for like and then for the five years of selling drugs and then right there at the end it was like bam bam bam three times in like a two or three months period um and the time right before this guy had come over and as soon as they left it was him and him and his friend as soon as they left my gut wrenched and I had never felt that way in my life before and so but I couldn't think of like

I couldn't put my finger on what made me feel that way and so I As soon as he left, I sent him some message like, yo, is everything good? You know, like something that was like kind of letting him know or asking him, like, what the fuck was that? And I went and hid everything. And then three days later, I was like,

I was like, you're tripping, bro. I was like, it's all good. And so I went and picked it up from the hiding spot. I was going to go back to my place, cut it, and then go to Chapel Hill. And as soon as I got out of the house, my car, start walking my place, like two people in plain clothes kind of start walking towards me in the same time. They're like, are you Rob Easton? And I was like, it's up. I was like, holy

crap. And that was it. And you were what, 23? 23. 23. And already graduated. So you were still selling right after college too. I was about to go back to like a college party and bring my load for the weekend. And yeah. Didn't go according to plan. It didn't show up to that meet. So how did your parents react when you got arrested? Dude, it definitely broke their heart. My parents were such good parents, and I think that, you know, one of the things I had that not a lot of guys have is I had a good support system. I think that's why it's so important that guys like us help build community around

men that are in or could potentially go in. So my parents, like, they came to see me every two weeks for the whole time, and nobody else that I knew. None of my other friends, you know, some of them wouldn't pick up the phone. I think I wrote like 10 letters when I first in the jail. I don't think I got any letters back. You know, my friends were like straight-edge college kids. I had a huge chip in my shoulder. I don't blame them because I was asking for trouble, to be honest, and I shouldn't have been doing what I was doing. So my parents gave me that support. And about a year and a half in, I remember I had this huge change of heart. First year and a half, half I was like in the back of my mind thinking you know I'm going to do everything I can to be successful but there's a strong chance I'm going to sell drugs on the side like I knew that's what

I was going to do a year and a half in I had a change of heart where I was just like I couldn't believe that I had embarrassed my parents like that and they were the only ones that cared and still came to see me and I was like why the hell am I risking my freedom and embarrassing the only people that really care. And I like, and that was it. And that was when I was like, I'm going to make them proud. I'm going to get out and do the right thing. And so I can definitely like, you know, I don't know what I would do if I didn't have that support system. So most guys in there don't. What's your, what's your family situation? So they visited, my parents are still together. They were very supportive. My dad went to every day of the trial. My mom came when she can't, could. You know, it was probably harder for my

brother because he was young in high school. I had just graduated high school. So he had a lot of that pressure. Now everything's different because now this has turned into like this big platform. Yeah. So like, you know, it's just, it's funny watching it evolve of like all the people that used to talk shit. Ha ha, ha, you went to prison, like posting on the downfall. And now it's like, we're doing cool shit. You know, like cool things are happening. Like I was at a dinner last night with Chevy Chase. And I'm like, this is all because I, because I want to. to prison. Right. So like the thing that society is like so embarrassing, like now I wear it like a badge, you know? Yeah. So it's interesting, but that, you know, they came to visit me.

I was in Danbury for a little bit when I was in the shoe. And then when I went to Wisconsin, my dad flew out there for a weekend. That was probably the longest time I was ever apart from my family because I only saw him once in a year. Oh, shoot. And then my mother and brother not at all that whole year. I bet that was rough. It was definitely rough. It was like those visits kind of you know and not only is it really good to you but it's like when your people are coming to see you it also looks good to everybody else in the yard it's like um

you know yeah I bet that was a hard year is the best way to say it I mean yes and no like in the feds like if it could be seen as a sign of weakness too because people are scoping you out how you react because you're in a big open visiting room in the camp it's different it's all different But like I would talk to them. I had a contraband cell phone, so I would FaceTime them. Things of that nature, you know.

But it's, it's, when you look back on it, it kind of like feels like a blur. And when you're going through it, it's like it feels like forever. Yeah. But then afterwards, it was like a dream. Yeah, it was what's such a small piece of my life. Yeah. Like that's just so far behind me. I got out five years ago, I think now.

Mm-hmm. You know, I did three years of probation. That's long. Yeah, I got off probation 20. It's going to be two years off probation, 22. So that's five years out. Yeah. It's crazy.

I got out like seven years ago at this point. And for such a long time, it defines you. Like when you meet somebody, it's like, you know, what else are you going to talk about? But now it's so far back. I meet, you know, people all the time. And I'm very proud of like the story, like you said. Now it's kind of like a badge. It makes it, I've gone up against more advice.

and been successful. And so it's a badge. But it took it took a few years, but now it really is kind of like a dream. It's, it's almost history. Yeah, I've realized doing this

that a lot of people have very interesting stories because they've went through something traumatic like these individuals that come on the show. Yeah. And there's a power in that. There really is because there's so many people, that don't experience like that, they just do their 9 to 5, this and that.

So to give these individuals an opportunity to be seen and to be heard and to tell it no differently than a celebrity going on a different podcast, you know, because that's something I've been grappling with. Do we want to go mainstream with celebrities, this and that? But it's like, I don't think you need to

because this is just like this exclusive platform solely for people that aren't celebrities. Maybe you have one here and there that kind of fits a brand, but if we could put I mean, we were just talking about that clip that did 14 million views. He doesn't have a big following. So was he a prison guard or what did he do time himself? No, I have everyone on my show.

Employees, I've had prosecutors, I've had lawyers. I just had my lawyer on that's coming out in a couple weeks from the trial and stuff. But it's just, it's so interesting, you know, because there's nothing else like that. No. Where you can have both sides. Yeah, you can both sides and just normal individuals. I think you're exploring the whole impact of prison on society and all the people that are touched by it and drugs too. And it's important to have that full perspective.

And you definitely brought on a lot of really cool guests in both sides. Yeah, and every guest's story is different. Like I get questions from friends and people and they're like, do you think it'll ever get old or repetitive? Or will you ever run out a guess? millions of people are incarcerated, then you have millions more that have suffered from addiction. So there's that that covers you forever.

Forever. Then the next thing is everyone has a different perspective. Your prison experience is going to be way different than everyone else's because you're your own person. You have your own thoughts. You have your own experience. Everything's different. And there's so many, like,

there's an unlimited amount of just crazy, funny stories from prison for sure. Yeah. You're going to get some of the most interesting people and interesting stories in that one little section of the population. It's not really a little section either. And I realize, like, I have this unique energy with the people, like the Rikers Island, Leroy's, like, I don't want to go on anyone else's show because I just like that chemistry.

Yeah. And I'm just like this, I don't know, like, I'm just like this unique individual that sits and it's not afraid to ask the questions, but we get along. And I'm just, I'm very easy going. Yeah, you are. And I think, I think you and I kind of, probably fall outside of the normal, uh,

stereotype for somebody that would do, do a lot of time as well. Um, but people still are comfortable around you, probably, um, more so than a lot of other potential podcast hosts. I think it takes definitely somebody who's been through it.

Yeah, I'm, I'm not going to, I think people know by now I'm not going to rip them. Right. You know, and, uh, like some podcasts,

they just grew up and they're looking for the most salacious. I mean, I spend every interview in the beginning, just talk. talking about the person's childhood and getting to know them so the audience gets to know them. Right. You see some interviews it's like so did this person fuck this person? Did this person do this? You know did you stab this person? Yeah. And when you do it my way you're able to get more out of it because they're just calmly telling their experience. Right. It's a safe place to do that. Yeah. So when you got arrested, did you get bond or were you locked up right then and there?

I had a $200,000 bond and I knew that I was going to do the time and so I did feel like it was even worth bailing out. Shortly after I was in jail, speaking to the guys in the pod, I was like, yep, I'm either going to snitch or I'm going to do three years. Like, you know, you're like, that's what's going to happen. I had like seven drug felonies that I had been charged with. Cocaine trafficking was the one that had the longest mandatory minimum, which is the one you plea out to.

And so they told me, and the guys in the pot are like, yeah, no, you're going to do three years or you're going to snitch. And I was like, all right. And that was definitely a super, super impactful decision not to snitch on anybody. I think if I hadn't have come out of there with my integrity, if I had that big F on my report card and I had a strike against my integrity, things would have been different. I think I would have had a lot less faith to myself, for one.

Like my business partner and I have no contracts. And we've been best friends for six years. we do over six figures a month in revenue and we've never had any issues. Like I 100% operate on my word and once you do a bunch of time to keep your word good it's like there's no way I'm gonna break my word over anything else after that. Yeah, I don't believe in contracts anymore

because I had so much bad experiences with contracts. It's all about the person that's signing it, you know? And there's always, even with a contract, there's always room to renegotiate after. And that depends on the person. Like look at these major artists like at end of deals. They could blow up a contract at any point if they're unhappy and they went out. So that's the way I look at it.

Once you even mention, so like once the relationship is started, if you have a contract in place, the day you mention the contract is the day when it's like, it's hard to come back from that. So the way that me and my partner's work is everything's open to. renegotiation to a degree. I mean, I don't know. I guess you just kind of get a feel for it

and how to operate without one. I don't know if I'm right or wrong for it. But it's working out pretty well so far with him. Certain situations, of course, not going to build a house for somebody or install a solar system without a contract.

But when you've known somebody for years and you're able to just move more quickly on trust, it definitely speeds up everything for sure. So describe that setting in prison because this was an experience I experienced and saw as this young white kid where everyone's trying

to give you an advice as a first time person like kind of hedging their bets on how much time you're going to get what you should do. Everyone's a fucking attorney when you get in there as this new person on the block. Dude, I remember them talking about you get so paranoid about people trying to snitch on you in jail too

and so you like want to death. You definitely really want to ask for advice and be like, yo, like what's about to happen here? But you're also, you don't know the setting you're in and even talking about what happened. You're putting yourself in a lot of risk. And so I remember, I think I had like a frat boy comb over kind of when I first went. And I was like, yo, everybody's kind of trying to size me up. I'm trying to figure everything out. I think I switched from a comb over to a Mohawk almost immediately.

I was like, I need to do something to not look like that. I currently look. And so you kind of like, I found my first mentor or like older guy who had respect in the pod. His name was Buddha or Gerald. And he kind of like took me under his wing and kind of like showed me the ropes. And I think that's like where I first started to have kind of mentors. once I went to prison I had a different mentor that kind of stuck with me

it was the Mark guy I was mentioning earlier but yeah like did you have any prison mentors um yeah I mean I think at first a lot of guys I realized weren't in my best interest I had one really good bunk bait that I'm still in touch with to this day

Cash Cash was a second bunk mate but I had one that his name's Bolo he just got out after serving a pretty long sentence when I look back on everything up until the camp he was probably the only one that had my best interest in mind

he was trying to show me the ropes but you meet so many people that come off as your friend or this and that and they're just not to be trusted or when shit hits the fan they're not there for it because at the end of the day and I get it like you're responsible for yourself in there

no one's going to come and save you you have to look out for yourself and you can't stick your neck out for someone else because it could affect your time And so people are weighing that and they're weighing the options of whether they help you, whether they don't help you, whether they get involved, whether they don't get involved, and I get it. You know, it's like in the real world. Right. Everyone's looking at something like, do you want to let this person in your circle? Do you not want to? Yeah. I think it's hard to figure out who you can trust in there for sure, especially in the beginning. It's like it's extremely scary, you know, trying to figure out who's trying to steal from you, who's just,

trying to, you know, potentially snitch on you. There's a million different things. And so, but you're also feeling very vulnerable. And so it's natural to want to find, like, a friend. But you're right. At the end of the day, in most cases, no one's going to have your back. Even if you're in a gang, like, those guys still turn on each other sometimes. I think I was fortunate to find some guys that I could rely on.

And I felt like did have my back. And I was the type of guy that would stand up for my friends, too, especially for something I was involved in at all. We were in processing, and the guy that I was kind of hanging out with the most, it was during count, and we didn't really realize how serious the guards would treat people fucking around during count. And so he, he, like, did something stupid during count, and then we both did, but they, the guards paid attention to him, and they went down to the post, poker table pulled the chips off from under the tablecloth and they were like y'all can blame him

for that and so the guards leave knowing that now the guys who are playing on the table were going to go after him for fucking up the game and everybody who was down on the table is now like they're gonna they're going to point the finger and blame this guy owes me and so somebody came up to him they came up to him with a lock and a sock and uh but i knew i was partially responsible so i stood up and I was like you're going to have to fight both of us and the dude back down. So that's how I operated. If I was involved, I'm going to hold my ground and be solid. Did you ever have any situations where people didn't stand up for you like that?

Yeah, all the time. I mean, I had a target on my back because I wasn't really running with anyone. In the Fed system, there's a lot of politics. So, you know, they were trying to extort me. I was in getting myself in over my head with gambling and trying to get in front. involved in shit. I shouldn't have. So there was just a lot of that. And I realized no one really had my back. So I kind of had to figure it out with that. How much time did they end up giving you? Three to five. And so I had to work off two years. So, you know, I made sure I was getting

off enough time. I planned out the whole thing to make sure I got out at my minimum. I got work release after a year and a half. And then was like working in chicken plants and sanitation. I got my first hernia working at a flooring factory right before I got out. And in there, I got, I was like promoted over citizens and management when I was in prison. And I was like, even though they took every single bit of money that we make, you know, it's still worth it to go out there. One, so that you can say, like, I did as much as I could while I was in there to the first person you're trying to get a job from when you get out. and then two, so you can get a phone. Like anything to not be in there all day.

So how does that work? Are you working for a real company, like a privately owned business, or are these government jobs that they're sending the inmates to? So in North Carolina, if you have, like, I think you have to have at least somewhere close to three years to qualify. You have to be infraction free for like a year and a half and do like all these, what do they call them? Like human resource development classes where they're teaching you when your alarm goes off, that means you're supposed to wake up.

That's like, what a joke. So once you get through that, you can get work release. And so they'll ship out, they'll get a contract with a chicken plant. Or usually it's with some job where they, it's like the worst possible job, you could imagine. Like 90% of the people there, even if they're not in prison, they have some sort of violent felony. you're like working in chicken plants spraying like chemicals on machines to clean the stuff off like in a rain suit to clean like the chicken guts so they'll ship the whole you know 30 inmates out there every day and then some of these facilities like they'll have fences around at the job but some of them they don't is a little more freedom and so they'll ship you out there you work your eight hours or more you get paid a normal wage like $10 you know $10 an hour ish. And for me, even though they took all of that for my drug fine,

just getting like a actual piece of fried chicken instead of a patty every day. And just being able to get out of that camp was 100% worth working for free, essentially. So you did all your time in a North Carolina state prison? And was it a camp or was it a low security? What kind of facility? We started at Brown Creek, which they actually, like last week,

weekend, they tore Brown Creek minimum down and they're using it as a, I think it's kind of like a maybe wrong, like a boarding school for people who's, for like kids who don't, whose parents are incarcerated. And so that facility's gone. It was minimum, like one small fence in the outside. People would definitely sneak out for sure. And then they moved this down the hill to a medium facility that they converted into a minimum. So even though it was a minimum, it still had like the three layers of fences. So yeah, it was minimum security. I never had an infraction in there, so I didn't end up in a medium or worse.

I don't know how it's tiered out in terms of security and feds. You have camp, minimum camp, which are camps, low, medium, high security, and then the maximums, or which are like the one in Colorado, where they have, like, the terrorists and those individuals. and El Chapo is there too. That's like below ground. That doesn't get any worse than that. That's like the highest security one possible.

What kind of people were you housed with? I've always heard this state is more like this than feds because a lot of the violent stuff I think fall in state sometimes. So like, you know, most of them are going to be drug offenses. And then you're going to have rapist, murders. You know, there's guys doing life that are in minimum security because they've been on their best behavior for a long. time.

So in general, you've got the whole spectrum, but you've got mostly people who have a considerable amount of time and are unlikely to be violent because they've already demonstrated for a while that they won't. Of course, there's, you know, there's still crazy stuff that happens. I remember one guy got like oil from the kitchen. They put it in the microwave and poured it on this dude. And it was a guy that I had almost gotten in a fight with the week before that did it. And I was like, thank God.

like I saw my face. So there's all types of people. Is feds more like white collar, less violent stuff? Is accurate? It depends. I mean, there are violent crimes in the feds when they're tied in with RICO cases and stuff. You see more murders in the state prisons.

I mean, they're murders in the feds if it's a part of like a gang and whatnot and it's gang related. Yeah. A lot of sex offenses, a lot of fraud, and a lot of, it's mostly drug cases, I would say. But that can encompass violent individuals. A lot of times you'll see people in the feds that are violent,

but they weren't necessarily convicted on the murder, but they're caught up in a lot of mob stuff and whatnot. I didn't know there's a lot of sex offenses in feds. No, people are surprised, but you've got to think it's Internet. In this world, maybe back in the day it was mostly state. But now I would say the majority of sex offender cases when it's used over the Internet is federal. if it's like a, I think you see now in states more like sexual assault would be a state case.

Right. Because that's within the state, you know, but if it's like child pornography, anything like that, that's in the feds. Yeah. 100%. That makes sense. Yep. So the whole spectrum, my best friend in there, his name was Mark Jones, he had done 10 years before I met him. I think he had four left when I met him, and we did three together.

and then he got out a year later and he was in there for murder. Your best friend's in there for murder. The thing is, like, a lot of people get sucked into the world of drugs and of selling drugs and then things can just take a left turn

and, you know, you might have thought you were doing what was right in the situation and then all of a sudden guns are out. You know what I mean? It's just, it's not a game where you can have been, any guarantee of stuff not going south. And so I think I'm fortunate that I was able to get out before things got worse.

You know, I'd been robbed at gunpoint and been in some situations that could have turned out much, much worse. And so, you know, and I had no desire to go hurt anybody. I think a lot of the guys, obviously, some of them do. Some of them do have natural violent tendencies. But a lot of them just get sucked into a world where you have to go make an example of somebody when they rob you or someone robs you and you protect yourself and then you end up in prison for a violent crime. I think in some states, drug trafficking is considered a violent crime

just because it comes with the territory. I know you weren't really involved in that world, but like you said, there's a lot of guys that are in there for drugs and they just didn't get caught for the violent stuff. Yeah, I think you'd see that all the time. Yeah. Did they give you like a nickname? Um, I, there was one because I had, uh, kept cornbread in my locker. So I called me cornbread. Uh, I would like, you know, you need, you starve in there. They feed you like, you know, your dinner's at 4 p.m. And you got to go from 4 p.m. to 4 a.m. or something like that.

And so I would always try to like have some cornbread in the locker for, uh, for 10 p.m. When I was dying of hunger. You would smuggle it out of the chow hall? Mm-hmm. trade for it, smuggle it out. Not just cornbread, but whatever it was. And you got like the southern accent a little bit. So I could see what it would be.

That's funny. Yeah. Did you have a nickname? McLevin. And squints from the sandlot too. Yeah, they got me with that. And some people call me Bieber too. Beaver?

Yeah. Yeah, I think I got that too. Yeah, I can imagine you're like this scrotty, a white kid that's young in prison. Were you hustling it all in there? Because you have like that entrepreneurial mindset. I did, in jail, I started trying to have my little store. And so I'd get like $7 a week from my family.

$7? $7 a week was like, was a lot in jail. Just seven. Seven. So I got like seven romans to work with this week. And so I'm like, holy crap, I'm going to be hungry as fuck. And so, yeah, of course, people like, I started trying to loan romans. And then I have to, people owe me back.

And you learn quickly, like, it puts you into a lot more. risk in situations because once again you end up having to do things to make sure that people don't think you can be taken advantage of. And so, yeah, I was hustling in that way. In jail, not as much. Like I just, or in prison, not as much. I learned my lesson about that in jail. And then by the time I was in prison, the price of Romans drops down to like 30 cents instead of a dollar. Were things a lot more expensive in jail for you, too? Everything's marked up.

I think feds is, like, everything's more expensive, though, right? Yeah, like a Ben and Jerry's on the street, like, an ice cream would be like six or seven bucks in there. Soda, a 12-pack would be like, you know, six or seven bucks. Like, everything was probably 50% to 75% marked up. Yeah. Especially electronic shoes, anything like that that you could get on the street. Right.

It's all marked up. That's how they make their money. They're buying in, like, the biggest bulk you could possibly imagine. Yeah. Oros are like eight bucks. Like, you know, that's just they get away with it. But they sell in me, I was shocked with how much name brand stuff they sell in there. Yeah.

It's really interesting on the commissary. Little Debbie's all of that. You know, it's super. See, I think the problem with that is that the federal prison system's not really accurately depicted in TV shows and whatnot. Orange is a new black that a good job from a woman's perspective. But where's the TV shows about like a men's prison camp? You don't really see it. The only things I can think of, they're not like fictional.

I think of like 60 days in. Yeah, but that's state. State, yeah. Yeah, that's state prison. It's jail, actually, I think. Well, because the feds are kind of notorious and not really letting, like, producers and whatnot in to see it, you know. So it's interesting in that respect. I heard planning a stories about the feds when I was in state, but you're right.

Like, I can't think of a TV show that depicts it very well. Yeah, guys always talk about in the feds about the state people and people that come from the state. state talk about the feds. It's kind of interesting like the inner workings. Yeah. But I think I mean it depends, but I think for the most part you'd rather be in fed yeah, than a state, you know? Like, you weren't even really doing it.

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It's funny. So what year do you end up getting out? I got out in, I think it was the very end of 2017. And what was your plan? So when I got out, I knew that the only way I could possibly make six figures and in a legal job was going to be sales. Sales will hire you

if you're willing to dial your ass off on the phones. And so I started busing tables in uptown Charlotte at Ruth's Chris. I got the job because I networked with a guy who'd done Fed Time for laundering money for the cartel. He owned three Ruth's Chrises.

He didn't snitch. They gave him some Ruth's chrises when he got out or something like that. And so I was busing tables and he was like, you'll let you be a manager one day. I was like, okay, that's $50,000 a year. You know,

so I just went into sales too. So during the day I do cold calling. And I worked for web.com. It took me a long, long time to get that job still. Finally got it. And then in my second month, I was like number one, and it was the biggest digital marketing firm

in the world at the time. You probably heard of web.com. They sponsored the PGA tour. And so that was like the first time I was like, you know, thank God. It was only my second, you know, probably been out three, four months. And I was like, okay, I'm really good at something. And like I know it now.

And so it was like the first glimmer of hope. So I did, so like I had the multi-prong. I was like, I'm going to try to get this manager job and serving if I have to. And I'm going to also work this other job and see if I can make it in sales. And so I've always kind of had two things going until one of them pops off. So like I started, I kept in sales. I probably made like 80K my first year out legally. And I stayed number one while I opened my solar company.

And I didn't quit until I had a bunch of money coming in from solar. I broke the all-time sales record at my day job. And then I quit the next day because I also had like 20 grand coming in from solar. And that was how it started. You know, you told me out there before we sat down that you had became a entrepreneur a few years ago, but really, you, you had that in you the whole time. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you were an entrepreneur when you were selling drugs. You're an entrepreneur. You had that mindset of always to figure it out. And you did that after prison. Like, some people are

able to go through immense of amounts of shit and still figure out a way to, to be successful from that. It's crazy because I think that it helped me to have my options limited down. It was like, sales is now, like, this is your shot. And so it's like, uh, I, I know, no longer played as if I had a, as if failure was an option or as if there was a plan B. It was like, this is it, bro,

you know, are you going to win or not? And so I think having my back against the wall helped. And then I always dreamed at the moment where I'd reach a point where, um, the prison story would be a badge where it would actually take me further. Um, and so that's a,

the kind of thing that you're kind of afraid to let yourself believe. Um, but I'm glad I chose to because, you know, It worked out in the long run. Is there ever a world where you think that you wish you got into what you're doing now right after high school and at Skip College did that? And then, you know, because you see a lot of young tech or startup companies or anything like that. They're doing it at that young age.

You see it all the time online. I don't think that I ever could have, I guess so, yeah. I wish that I had been able to connect with better mentors where I could have been like, that dude's lifestyle is sick. I believe that that's not a scam and just gone into it more easily. I think that if I had a better way of finding a role model like that, that it could have been different for me.

And yeah, that would have been great. But my story is, you know, what makes me who I am. I love that I've stood up against that kind of adversity in one. And now that I've come through it, for sure, like I don't think I would change it if I could. If I could just switch change right now, no.

I would prefer to, have done it the way that I have. What's your relationship with your parents now? It's good, bro. That's part of why I came back to North Carolina. So I spent the last two years in Miami and L.A. for the last six months. And then I eventually was like,

yo, my businesses are doing great online. Like online is where I meet my best clients that come to me for what I offer. I'm not just meeting them out and trying to convince them to use my service when they didn't show interest in the first place. And so after two years, years of seeing like that that wasn't benefiting the business and that it was more just for fun

I was like I'm going to come back home just more time with family and my mom still works in a halfway house for women she started doing that when I was in prison so women that are getting out of uh are about to get out a prisoner have just gotten out um she helps take care of them and so I love to be here and spend time with them and I think it's like the least I can do for all the shit that I put them through. Yeah. Has your felony become an obstacle at all or a challenge in your life? For sure.

I mean, it made it harder to get a job. I think one of the hardest things to overcome was being able to rent a place. We had this like penthouse in Miami and I'm still like, I'm not on the lease. So like I'm like coming in through the parking deck. And you know, it sucks to be that successful and still feel like you have to hide. but especially with apartments you can't do anything about that building's policy there's no one you can talk to that's going to get you a leg up there

so a lot of us we have to wait until we can own can have to sneak around until then but finally I actually I did get my name on a place approved for an actual apartment yesterday I got the approval and I was like it was a huge relief first time I've actually gotten approval from like a company to live in their building since I've been out 10 years

since my felony. Yeah, something I realize is that it's worse to have a state felony on your record than a federal. Because a lot of these apartment applications or jobs, they're searching federal, I mean, they're searching state felonies

for that state, and then they're searching federal, like, sex offender registry crimes. Yeah. So when I do background checks for apartments and stuff, my stuff never really comes up, I still disclose it

because they ask if you ever been convicted of a felony, but when you see the background report, it doesn't come up. It's interesting. I haven't seen the full report. I'll ask them because I did tell them when I was applying. But it didn't say anything about it on my approval letter. It said you've been conditionally approved and you need to verify your identity, which I had already done.

But they didn't say anything about it. And so I know one time I applied and they just didn't see it because it's like 10 traffic, citations and then one traffic gang and I'm not sure if they just didn't see it because it blended in or what but yeah man it's a it's a huge relief and I think that there should definitely be more firm laws in place to where I know some states have it where they can't see they only let you go back seven years on those applications but that's a huge barrier for for people and being forced to sneak around even once you've done everything right it just sucks bro

you just want to be like accepted and be able to have the same freedoms as everybody else when you've earned it yeah what do you want people to take away from your story when they look back on it when they hear it because this is going to be around for you know years and years to come that you get to tell your story that you get to write it you get to write the ending

you always get to write the ending and then what good story doesn't have some shit in the beginning you're not going to be able to write anything impactful or do any inspiring without having the shit and so I would encourage people to remember that they can always write that story and then to find mentors that can help you figure out how to do to start a business to not to forget that there are success stories um it would be the main thing that I'd hope people

would remember