Locked In with Ian Bick - How I Survived Utah’s Prison System | Dillan Judkins

Episode Date: February 9, 2026

Dillan Judkins grew up in Utah after being put up for adoption at birth by his mother, who was struggling with addiction, and raised by a loving Mormon family — but rebellion, alcohol, and trouble started early. In this episode, Dillan shares how a sexual assault charge stemming from a one-night stand at a party when he was 18 changed his life forever, leading to months in county jail awaiting trial, a probation deal, repeated violations, and ultimately spending nearly 15 years inside the Utah prison system. He explains how he survived prison with a stigmatizing charge, his side of the story, the realities of navigating the system, and the long-term impact incarceration has had on his life, identity, and future. _____________________________________________ #UtahPrison #PrisonStories #TrueCrime #PrisonLife #HowISurvived #InmateStories #LockedIn #podcast _____________________________________________ Connect with Dillan Judkins: Facebook & Instagram: InkkEnvyy Tiktok: inkk.envy _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Arrested at Home: Waking Up to Police 00:34 Growing Up Adopted in Rural Utah 02:26 Finding My Biological Parents 03:34 Family Struggles & Feeling Like the Outsider 05:52 Rebellion, Church, and Early Violence 09:35 Losing Control 14:14 School Trouble & First Criminal Behavior 18:14 Dropping Out & Alternative School Life 21:12 The Night Everything Changed 29:14 Police Investigation & Interrogation 32:40 Charged With Serious Crimes & First Time in Jail 38:00 Jail Politics & Surviving Serious Charges 46:06 Trial Prep, Legal Mistakes & Taking a Plea Deal 52:35 Regret, Probation Violation & Sentenced to Prison 01:00:28 Living With a Life-Changing Sentence 01:06:07 County Jails, Prison Life & Treatment Programs 01:13:00 Inside the Sex Offender Program 01:24:09 Prison Reputation, Tattoos & Survival 01:32:00 Life After Prison: Stigma, Labels & Reality 01:40:13 Loss, Reflection & Lessons Learned Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And I was like, for what? My mom's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you guys told me you're just coming in my house to talk to my son. Like, what do you mean he's under arrest? They're like, no, he's going to jail. She's like, for what I was freaking out of the time? I was like, what am I going to jail for? And they're like, enforceable sodomy.

I didn't know what that meant. And so they end up booking me into jail. Now, in actual state prison, how do they treat you? Imagine being 18 years old and realize. realizing one decision is going to follow you for the rest of your life. That's exactly what happened to my guest today, who ended up spending nearly 15 years inside Utah prisons and is sharing what it's really like surviving the system with a charge that never goes away.

Where'd you grow up? In Plain City, Utah, which is basically, it's in Ogden area, but it's on the west side. So more out in like the rural, like, country, countryside. but I was adopted, like, at birth. So my birth mom, she was 14 and was an addict or whatever. And so my now parents, they went through the, like, the LDS adoption agency and stuff and had it lined up with her.

and then when she had me, my parents flew out and had to, like, I guess when I was born, because my mom was using and stuff while she was pregnant, it ended up to where I was withdrawing the first couple of days. And so as soon as I was good from that, my parents flew me back out here. So my parents now, that's who I called mom and dad, you know, like that those are my parents. But, yeah. How old are you when they told you about your biological parents? So they've always, like, as far back as I can remember, they've told me about it.

I remember even back, it was probably more so around, like, junior high, I would say, is when I kind of started to have behavioral problems to where that was, like, when they started to like try to sit me down a couple times. And it wasn't really nothing like too much, but they would just say, hey, just so you know, like your mom was an addict and we were told from the doctors and stuff that you would be more susceptible to addiction when you're older.

And so you need to be really careful with that. And so they would just relay that information to me. But at the time, I was just, I didn't know what that meant. I was like, ever like you guys are worried about some weird shit but other than that like I don't know my real birth parents names like anything I know my mom was 14 and so you've never reconnected with her ever i've never i don't even know their names to even know and it's a sealed adoption when they go through the lDS agencies it's sealed adoptions that you don't know your birth parents

how does that make you feel? It's kind of it's different like because she was so young like she was a kid like she I would like at this point

in my life like at least to know their names or if they're still alive like see what they a picture of them or whatever like I don't know as far as going maybe you meet them depending on circumstances or whatever but um it's kind of played a little like factor like growing up I feel like I have two older brothers too and they were both adopted from different families too for the same reasons but those two

went completely different routes or whatever I'm black sheep of the family so like um it's kind of for them they don't they've never I've never heard them say a word about who their birth parents were whatever so like growing up I always kind of questioned it and I've wanted to like bring it up to my parents but at the same time I I was I didn't know how much good it was going to do because I don't know I did ask my mom one time I was like hey what was my mom's name or whatever and she didn't she couldn't remember my mom my mom my parents parents now are they're older, they're in their 70s. And so, like, she couldn't remember anything.

And I just kind of, for me, it was like, I don't want to hurt their feelings by, like, hey, who are my real, like, but at the same time, yes, I would like to know, but they, they don't really have anything from more, or from the story that they told me, anything more than that. I don't know. Do you ever think about what you would have done if you were in their shoes? if you would have done the same thing? As far as having...

Putting up the baby for adoption? I will... So, this more in-depth version of the story was like... So my adopted parents, they had been in contact with my birth mother and throughout the pregnancy. And I guess my birth mom would text my adopted mom every so often and be like, hey, I got a doctor's appointment. Hey, I need to go do this.

I need this. And so my adopted mom was like, at the time, she was carrying you. And so I felt like I needed to take care of her, help her out. So my mom was sending her money and paying her rent and doing all these things that she thought the money was going towards that. She told me later, now she kind of regretted it because she now thinks that my birth mom was using it to get drugs or whatever. And so I guess when it came down to right before she had me, the hospital or the agency

ended up calling my mom. And it was like, hey, she's about to have the baby. Like, you need to get out here. And so my mom flew out. and when she got there, I guess my birth mom was like having second thoughts, I guess, and she didn't want to give me up. And then I guess they ended up drug testing me or whatever after I was born. And I had meth and heroin and stuff in my system.

And they said that I was going to be withdrawing and shit. That scared my birth mom and dad. enough to where, the hospital said they were going to call the cops. And so my birth parents, I guess, took off out of the hospital. And that was kind of the end of it. What were your adoptive parents like while you were growing up? So super, they're, they, I grew up LDS in the Mormon church. And if you're familiar with that,

or their beliefs or anything like that. It's, it's, um, they weren't so much strict, but it's just like they, they've, they've never drank. They, they don't even,

hardly even swear most of the time. Like, I had a, my childhood and shit growing up was, was good. Like, I was always involved with sports. Like, obviously growing up in the church,

um, they had me involved in scouting. I got, I was an Eagle Scout at age 13, which was like unheard of, like, because I was so young at that time. And so, like, and it was a, I grew up in a little, like, middle class, like, all my buddies just lived right around the corner and stuff. That's who I went to church with every Sunday. That's who I played sports with. That, like, and so, like, I kind of had a lot of freedom to just do it. to just do whatever.

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Deepop, where Taste recognizes Taste. You mentioned your middle school years you started to act out, getting into a little bit of trouble. What was happening? So about junior high, that's when I kind of started like, As far as the whole church stuff and everything, like, I just, it was off to me. I didn't like going at all. I didn't want nothing to do with it.

I kind of just wanted to go my own way. Like, I didn't necessarily feel like the beliefs and the teachings of the church were accurate or in my interest. And I kind of wanted to separate myself from that. And in doing that, that upset the fuck out of my parents. They did not like that. Like, they went as far as, like, when I would stop going. Like, it would be arguments every Sunday morning trying to get me up to go to church.

And then if I didn't, it was, like, all that whole day, they would just be mad as fuck at me. And then it got to the point to where they were, like, trying to basically force me to go. And it got to that point. They were having, they had the, so it's when you have your classes, when you go to church, they have like their classes where if you're a teenager or whatever, the dudes all have your little meetings or whatever. And they had the teachers and the kids from church on Sunday come to our house because I wouldn't go to church and then would like wake me up and be like, hey, come on, come on.

out to the living room and I'd go out there and there would be all the kids that I'd all my buddies and stuff or kids that I went to church with sitting in there and like my parents were just like trying to force that shit on me and it just fucking like it made me really resent it hell of bad like I didn't want nothing to do with that shit and at that time too like when once you hit junior high you're you got new new kids that you're introduced to and and me and I just kind of like got a started kicking it with dudes who like weren't necessarily their parents weren't LDS or Mormon. I'd go over to their house and their parents would be drinking or whatever and then like or smoking weed or just like and my buddy would have like his ears, pierced or something. Like for me that was a you can't do that tattoos, piercings, drinks, smoke, whatever.

like we we don't do that and so I just kind of like was drawn to to that lifestyle and like wanted because I was always told that I couldn't do that it just made me want to try it like I was like what like what's up with this so I ended up the kids that I was hanging out with it at first the first like the big thing I did when I was junior high is like my one one of my buddies who his parents weren't LDS, they were going out of town. And I ended up going with them and I was going to be gone with them for a couple of days. And I had been wanting to pierce my ears, hell of bad. And so I was like, oh, we're going to be gone for like almost a week.

That should be enough time for me to pierce someone. And then they'll heal. And then by the time I get home, I'll just take that shit out. And while I'm at home and then I'll put them back in when I leave. And so I end up piercing them all. They don't heal that fast. You can't just like, and they're so tender and sore too when you first do it. It's like, or if you first get them done, you can't just take them out even for a couple hours.

They're going to be closed up. And so I ended up going home and right when my parents seen me immediately, my dad started freaking the fuck out on me, telling me to take them out. And I didn't really see the big, like, I didn't understand why they were making such a big issue about it and shit. and so I ended up piercing my ears and then dealing with that whole thing. And then that's right around the time where I started, I drank for the first time and smoked weed for the first time. And the crazy thing is, is the dudes who I grew up with and went to church with are the ones, like, in the very beginning who ended up the first time I smoked weed, that I was with them. Like they got that shit.

They all wanted to smoke. And like it was kind of like we were all curious. And after they all, it was like a one and done thing for all of them. They tried it. Oh, it was cool. Like whatever. And went on with their lives. Me.

I was like, no, that's just cool. And it just became from there. That's when it started. The weed and alcohol started. And then shortly after got introduced to. the rave scene and doing ecstasy and trunes and acid and just like and at school too i've always as far as like music wise and shit growing up always drawn to rap music my brother like i remember driving he would be driving and i'd be in a car with him and picked up i think it was uh yeah it was

Nellie's album and I remember the band-aid on his face and he had the headband and shit and like I was just kind of drawn to that I thought it was cool and started listening to that and so I got stuck on the rap music and then like I'm this little white Mormon kid in my basement in my room I got little Wayne posters all over my room and like I've always basketball has always been my favorite sport like always been super into basketball and back then it was tracy mcgrady and AI and so like i'd have a i i'd have a do rag on and shit and i just thought that shit looked cool like i didn't know that there was a purpose for it or why they were wearing it or whatever i just thought it looked cool so i started wearing headbands and du rags and like listening to rap music and doing all that but at school

like I started getting into a lot of fights too. And so that's when it really started. Do you think because of how strict your parents were that pushed you to be more rebellious and kind of do the opposite of what they wanted for you? Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like it's kind of the opposite, and I see it all the time, like people that came from kind of either a broken home or like a family that smokes or drinks or whatever,

and like there's been issues with that. It seems like those people do the opposite. And when they get older, they don't want nothing to do with it. And then people that are kind of like, not really sheltered, but like kept away from that shit and told not to do it. And I always told that it was bad or whatever. Like, I feel like those are the ones that end up going and trying it. When you were just getting to high school,

did you have plans for the future? What did you want your life to become? Honestly, bro, I didn't really know at that time. To be real, like, high school and junior high and shit, it was all just a social thing to me. Like, I wasn't there for school. It was the social aspect of it. That's all I gave a shit about.

I gave a fuck about women and partying. That was it. It was just a social thing for me. Most of the time, like, especially junior high, I was sloughing a lot. coming to school drunk and high and catching theft charges and shit at school because we'd go through lockers and still people shit phones and iPods or whatever else. And so, like, I ended up dropping out right before graduation.

And then I didn't really have any plans, like, up, I think about three months after graduation would have been like and at that time that's when everybody was really partying and shit like it was almost every day a week there was something going on and so i didn't i didn't really have a whole lot of plans on as far as like what i wanted to do with my life it was more like oh yeah now i got all this fucking freedom to do whatever the fuck i want and so and then i ended up going to prison because of all that like shortly after graduation so what was the relationship with your parents by the time you dropped out of school um it was it was definitely strained um they they knew i by this point i was on probation juvenile probation at the time they were aware as to my drug use like

as far as like my mom would drag my ass to the to the doctors and just so that they could try to show me what like ecstasy was doing to my brain and shit like the holes and shit to try to like steer me away from that shit and I just I didn't care like it didn't bother me it I wanted to do what I wanted to do and I do think that them trying to like force me in one direction is what made me so rebellious and just want to say fuck it and go a different route. So you're 18 years old, what happens that actually ends up leading you to prison? So I, uh, it was, it ended up being to where this chick, so when I dropped out, I ended up going to a alternative school and to try to finish. And when I was at the alternative school,

the alternative school is like it's it's the school where everybody at the regular schools get sent when they get in trouble for shit so it's a school full of badass kids like we're we either all got kicked out of our regular schools for fights or drugs or or

the females had babies so like I was going to high school and the chicks that I was going to school and the chicks that I was going to school with would bring their kids to school and there was a daycare in our school. So like you're walking to class and the chicks are running in there to their kids real quick

or at lunch and they'd have their kids with them and shit. And so it was just kind of like a weird dynamic to where like when I started going there, then at that point, whatever I wanted. I'd go to school, get ecstasy shrooms, whatever, like anything that I wanted. And so I was partying a lot at that time. And one of the chicks that I went to school with there,

she had just got her own place and was having a little fucking party or whatever. And me and my buddy decided to go to it. And there was another chick that we went to school with there too, who I was kind of dating, kind of talking to. Um, it wasn't for very long at all, like maybe a couple weeks. And then like after graduation and shit, I hadn't seen her talk to her for, for months. And so we ended up going to this party. And it was just me and my buddy. And when we first got there, the chick who I used to talk to was there. And I hadn't seen her for a minute and shit. So me and her started chopping it up. And, uh, like, she was being, like, she was being flirty. I was flirting with her back. Like I was like, all right, bet. So like I was trying to get with her that night. And she seemed like she was kind of with it. And then she was like, hey, I need to go pick up my buddy. Like, do you want to come with me? And I thought we were just going to pick up

with her home girls or something. I was like, yeah, I bet, let's go. And so we go. And she doesn't tell me who we're going to pick up. I thought it was a female, to be honest. And like, we get there. And when you get there, she's like, hey, do you mind if you get in the back seat? And I was like, what? And she's like, my friend's kind of weird. Do you care if you just get in the back seat? He's kind of weird about, like, me having friends and stuff. And I was like, what the heck is she talking about?

And so he comes out, gets in the car, we start driving back to the party. And I'm just listening to them and come to find out she's got a full-on boyfriend and shit. And I was like, what the fuck? Like, why don't she tell us? So at this point, I was mad. I'm like, fuck, let's get back there so I can go. So we end up getting back to the party. The car that she was driving was her home girls.

So we got back to the party. When we got back, she was like, oh shit, I forgot to put gas in the car. We're going to go get gas. Do you want to come with us or do you want to go inside? And I was like, no, I'll just go inside. So I got out, went inside, they left. Well, I go upstairs. And at the time, mind you,

like in high school and for months and months like at the time they used to have the kiosks in the mall and shit where you didn't have to have no it was no just a signature and i don't even think you had to show them your id like you literally you could take them any phone any iPod or whatever and they'd look at it as long as it worked they'd buy it and it was like little hunter 150 bucks whatever for each one And so that was kind of our lick at the time. We'd go to school or go to a party or something and still four or five of them. And everybody, we kind of, at that point, we're kind of known like, hey, those two, those motherfuckers are little fucking kleptos. Like, keep an eye on these dudes.

And so I went back. And right when I walked in, my homie was like, he comes running up. And he's like, hey, everybody's tripping here. Like, and I was like, what? And he's like, well, old girl, he's like, I slept with old girl. And when we got done, he's like, I stole her phone. But he's like, she came out and started freaking out because she knows it was me. But he's like, I took it and I hit it in the lining of the trash can in the bathroom.

And he's like, I need you to go get it for me. And I was like, what the fuck? Like, I don't even know who this chick is at this point. Like, one, she is. He just ran up to me and told me this. And then everybody, the chick whose house it was, like, at that point, she, like, there's a little bit of drama and shit going on to where she was just telling everybody get the fuck out, like, want everybody to leave and shit. And so I was like, all right, I bet. So I went in the bathroom, fucking grab the phone, slid into my pocket.

And then we were out. We went and got into my truck. We were all drunk and shit. And got to my truck and then I was backing out. And this chick comes running up to my truck. and she's like, hey, did you leave with Courtney? And I was like, yeah. And she was like, where is she at?

She's got my car. And I was like, oh, she told me she was going to go get gas and that she was coming back. And she's like, well, what the fuck? That's my car. Like, I don't know what I'm going to do. And my homie was like, oh, you can come to my house. And she was like, okay, well, I don't know anybody here. So I'm not staying here.

Like, yeah, I'll go with you guys. So she was. was planning on going to his house. And so we started driving and this chick starts talking about her phone being stolen. And I look at over my homie like this, you dumb ass motherfucker. Like this is her phone. Like I got her phone in my pocket and she's sitting right here. I got a little tiny ass truck. It's a little bench seat. So there are me, her and him. And it's a little stick shift and like crowded as fuck and while we're driving she started like grabbing my leg and shit and i was like what is this chick doing and we end up getting to my buddies and he gets out and he's like all right let's go and

and she's like uh i don't know i don't know if i can stay here i think i need to go find my homegirl and he's like all right and just dips and i was like what the fuck like and i was like hey I have her phone in my pocket, right? So looking back, I wish I just would have fucking done the mature thing and been like, look, here's your fucking phone. Call your home girl. Like figure shit out. Like, see where she's out. I'll take wherever you need to go.

But of course, I didn't. So I'm sitting there like, well, where do you need to go? And she's like, oh, I don't know. I don't know where Courtney went. She's like, where did you guys go to? to, when you guys left and I was like,

she said she was going to go pick up a homie and that she was coming back. But, and she goes, oh, no, that was her boyfriend. And she's like,

well, they're probably there, but she's like, can I go to your house? And I was like, fuck, no. My parents are LDS is fuck.

We are drunk. No, that's not happening. So we were just sitting in the truck. Well, we end up hooking up. And then after the, fact she's like well if you just take me back to where you guys went that's her boyfriend's

house she's like i'm pretty sure she'll just be there and i was like okay cool drive her back drop her off soon as i pull in old girl that i was dating she's she's sitting right there or she's standing outside with her boyfriend and shit and so i pull up drop her off leave nothing don't hear anything for months three months and mind you at the time I was on juvenile probation and shit. And it was like, yeah, about three months later, a detective shows up in my house. And it was crazy because the same homie that was with me that night

was over at my house when this detective showed up. And he calls me outside and he starts questioning me about some party and stolen phone. and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, I don't know nothing. And he's like, oh, here's a lineup. And you were pointed out of this lineup as one of the potential dudes who pawned this phone. There was two of you.

And I was like, yeah, I don't know. And he's like, all right, well, I'll be in touch with you and gave me his car. And he left. I went back in and I told my home, I was like, dude, they're honest. Like the detective just showed up about the fucking stolen phones. They didn't tell me what phone. They didn't say what party. They just said they were doing an investigation about a stolen phone at a party.

So it could have been, fuck, hundreds at that point. So I didn't know what it was directed to. And so another couple weeks or it was probably about two weeks later, it went by. And then there was another car. at the door and it said to call the detective saying to call him so I called him and the whole time

I'm thinking okay they're investigating me for some stolen phone like I got to come up with some bullshit story about how I ended up with the phone or maybe I got it from somebody or whatever I didn't know what I was going to

tell them at that point but that's what I was thinking and so the detective was like, can you come up and talk to us? And I was like, yeah, it's not an issue. So I drove up there. He walks me into this room and there's a fucking camera set up. And like, he's straight across from me like this.

And I was like, all this for a phone like, what the hell? And he starts questioning me about this, where I was, this specific night, and whatever else. And I was like, dude, you got to be more. like I don't know what you're taught like I've been to a million parties like what one are you referring to so then he ends up telling me that it was that one and so immediately the phone everything I was like oh okay and so he was like can you tell me a little bit more about what happened that night and I was like yeah I mean I went there and I'm leaving out the whole

shit with the phone. And he's like, well, what about, what about the phone? And I was like, look, man, I had the, did I, did I pawn the phone? Yes, me and my buddy did, like, me and him had both, they had, they had, I forgot to, they actually went and talked to him during all this too, about the phone as well. And so I was like, yes, I ended up with it. Like, we got it from somebody at the party. I was like, I don't remember who exactly it was, but I just, I told him some stupid shit. Like, I didn't know it was stolen or whatever.

And thinking that I'm finally covering my ass or made up a good enough liar or whatever. And he goes, all right, well, can you tell me what else went on to the party? And I was like, what are you talking about? And I was like, no. And he's like, what about afterwards? And I was like afterwards and he's like, did you hang out with anybody or whatever? And I was like, no, I drove my buddy home. And then I remember her and I was like, and then I took old girl home.

And he's like, yeah, you want to tell me more about that? And I was like, what? And he's like, did anything happen between you two? And I was like, if you want to know, yeah, we had sex. and then I took her home. That was literally it. And he goes, well, was it consensual?

And I was like, was it consensual? Absolutely was consensual. What do you mean? And he's like, well, we're just getting a different story. And I was like,

no, fuck no. I said, whatever you're trying to fucking hint to or whatever, I was like, fuck no. Did I sleep with her? Yes, absolutely.

But I was like, and was it consensual? Yes. And I was like, and am I under arrest? and he's like, no. And I was like, then I'm done talking to you two. And I left, walked out. And I didn't know at the time, but like I had a paper come. It was like probably a week after a paper ended up coming in the mail saying like if you don't want your information blasted in the paper

or whatever, you got to fill this out and send it back into us. And I didn't know what it was. I was. I was on juvenile probation at the time, so I thought it was something to do with that. Still, at this point, I'm unaware of what's about to happen. A couple days later, I end up, first thing in the morning waking up, my mom, wake up to my mom and two officers stand in my room. And they're like, Judkins, and I'm just barely waking up. I'm like, yeah, and they're like, you need to stand up. I was like, for what?

And they're like, you need to stand up. You're under arrest. I was like, for what? My mom's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you guys told me you were just coming in my house to talk to my son. Like, what do you mean he's under arrest? And they're like, no, he's going to jail. And she's like, for what? And I was freaking out of the time.

I was like, what am I going to jail for? And they're like rape and forcible sodomy. And I didn't know what the fuck that meant. I had no idea. And so they end up booking me into jail. and my next door neighbor, he was my brother's age. I have two older brothers, and they're both 10 and 12 years older than me. But our next door neighbor, he was their age, and he was kind of like a second brother to me.

Well, by this time he was working at the jail. And so right, when I got booked in, they started putting me in an orange jumpsuit and talking about Supermax. and all this shit. And they went and put me in the cell with some old-ass dude, old-ass dude, dirty as fuck. And I'm like sitting in the cell like, where the fuck am I at? Like they got me all chained up all the way to the cell and everything. And I was in there for a minute.

And then the cops called me out and took me out in the hallway and it's my neighbor. And he's like, dude, what the fuck are you doing here? And I was like, I don't know, man. They got me some fucking bullshit. And he's like, not only what are you doing here, but what the fuck are you doing here on these type of charges? And I was like, I didn't fucking do it. I was like, I swear to fucking God, like, I promise. Like, I was like, I don't know what the fuck.

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Add it to your registry or shop at NANET.com. Put me back in. Well, at the time, Weaver County, you used to be able, it was, it's, Weaver County, their newspapers, the standard examiner. We used to be able to get it sent in to the jail at the time. So my mugshot and news article had already circulated the jail. So when I came in, there's dudes. Oh, there he is, there is.

And I get put into the cell with that old ass dude. And I was only in there for a night. and I heard one of the dudes that was upstairs, another kind of younger cat, like I guess he seen me when I come in and came in and I guess he asked the guard, hey, will you move old boy up to myself? And so they ended up moving me up there

and he's like, hey man, he's like, I seen your article and shit. He's like, I seen when you came in. He's like, I just knew you were down there with that old fucking child molester and shit. And he's like, I wanted to get you out of that sale. And he's like, you seem like just a little normal-ass good kid.

And so he's the very first one, like when I first got in there who kind of like was lacing me up on like, bro, this is in here. Like when you're on these type of charges, like it doesn't go well for four people. And he goes, the thing is is your case. he's like your case is it's kind of funky like it's not he's like you might have some action with yours and like it's not a it's not a it's not a chomo case or anything like that and so he's like but the the best thing you can do he's like why you're in here row is he's like because of your shit and how it is he's like the best thing you could do is just be honest just be straight up with motherfuckers. He's like, if you lie about it, shit just gets worse. And so I was, I'm young,

I'm naive, I'm 18, I'm still a kid. Like, and I, at that point, I, I thought I was kind of like, kind of a hit fucking cool dude, like attracted to, not so much gangbing lifestyle, but just kind of like the rap music, tattoos, fucking, like, all that. Like I was drawn to that shit. I was into that shit. So like I didn't know the difference between like me being in there on that case versus a dude in there on a drug charge or whatever else. And so I was in that supermax for 30 days and then they drop you down to Max after that. And so I got moved over to Max.

and when I was over there, it was kind of the same thing. Like, there was dudes who I was straight up with that luckily, just because of the circumstances, like when I started going to court and getting my discovery and everything, and then, like, I had dudes that, and at the time I had a temper, like, I was getting in fights all the time. So, like, I would be in my cell and some dude would walk by and be like, So, man, what's up? And he was like, you do it? And I knew what he was referring to.

And I was like, fuck, no, I didn't do it, dog. Like, the fuck are you talking about? No, man, I think you did it. No, fuck you, dude. I didn't do shit. Motherfucker, like, don't put that on me. Like, yeah, did I have sex with her? Absolutely, I did.

But did I fucking rape her? Fuck, no, I didn't. You got me fucked up. And I didn't like the fact that there was dudes that were kind of like talking shit to me and shit. And obviously it's through the fucking door or whatever else. And but when people started like when I'd get my discovery and shit and they started reading it, they're like, they'd seen something funky was going on with my case. And they're like, hey, you might, you got a, your shit's fucked up.

Like they're doing you grimy. It's, it's no, there's no evidence in your shit. It's your, my, at this point, my attorney, like, had got a bunch of, found out a bunch of information and shit. And so dudes in there, like, especially the gangbangers and shit, like, um, my age and just, like, that I, because I was straight up with my shit and I guess just kind of how I carried myself, like I had a lot of dudes gang bangers and shit who kind of like took me under their wing type shit and like they told me all from the very beginning I was always told like hey the sex view is not a good thing to

have in here but like with your shit as long as you're straight up about it and like you just carry yourself well then you won't have no problems you'll be all right and they're like but don't ever lie about that shit. And they're like, another thing is, is if somebody wants to fight, if they want to catch the fade, he's like, it doesn't matter if you get your ass beat, whatever. Like, you handle your shit. And I was like, okay, all right.

And from there on out, like, the one, there was the section that I was in at that time, or for the first nine months that I was in fighting my charge, I was around a certain group. I won't say no names or anything, but like I got super close with those dudes and they kind of like took me in and told the rest of the dudes like, hey, you guys got issues with him or whatever.

Then you guys got issues with us. Like he's with us. We're going to back this dude. So like you guys got an issue with it and let us know. And there was some other dudes. in there who didn't really necessarily like that and we were out playing handball one day and I was athletic I played sports growing up my whole life so going in there and basketball was my

favorite sport so like going into there where basketball is huge like kind of the dominance thing and when it comes you know with handball and shit so like we were playing handball and me and my partner ended up beating this dude and the one dude it I kind of had issues with in the section, uh, and we end up beating them. And he turned around and he threw the, threw the handball at me and it hit me in my,

my, my balls and that shit fucking, shit hurt. So I, I, I, I, I,

I called him a bitch. I was like, you're a fucking bitch for that shit. And he's like, what? And he came up. And you used to be able to see through the glass into the section,

into the hallway and shit. And there was, there was three guards standing right there all bullshit. And all this dude comes up and he just starts teeing off. on me out there in the fucking yard and like I backed up and I seen the cops and shit and everybody that's out there was like hey chill chill chill chill chill handle it when you guys go inside and I was like all right motherfucker I'm gonna catch you when we go inside and he's like you

ain't gonna do shit motherfucker I was like all right bet and so when we were walking in those dudes told me they're like hey bro you got to do something I was like all right bet so dude dude ended up going to his cell first. He's walking through the section. He was like 6-7, another white dude, but he was a big dude. And I'm just this little ass kid, but like he went into his cell. And right before he walked in, he's taken off his shirt and telling me to come in there. So I took off my shirt, went in his cell, and they closed the door.

And right when I stepped in there, oh boy, it just came. came at me and I just I just caught him good as fuck right under the chin knocked him fucking clean out he just stiffened up fell back fucking smack his head on the fucking bunk was laying on the ground like doing a seizure type shit like I thought I didn't know what the fuck I did to the dude but knocked him out and it was not like I don't know I'm not I've been in a lot of fights am I like a fighter like no but I got dude and came out of the cell and the dudes who I fucked with in the section like walked me back to their cell clean me up and shit like dude gave me a blue i had a black eye my lip was bleeding and shit and

they told me to clean up and oh boy his gang came him over because one of the dudes was like hey you guys better get your boy so they went in picked old boy up and had to walk him over to the shower and ever since I said on the same right across from the dude on the same table too when we ate and shit so from then on though that dude next morning cops were walking through I had a black eye oh boy had two black eyes the cops looked at us they're like what happened nothing got hit in the face of the handball oh a handball huh all right and they just weber county of the times even even now really we where i was at they don't when it comes to fights and shit sometimes they'll just leave you guys in the section other times they might move you for a week

or whatever and then they'll they'll put you right back in the same section like it it doesn't matter to them so but from then on i didn't have any issues with that dude and and and um when i was going through my trial and shit. Let's see. When I got closer to, I think it was like, yeah, it was about nine months. As far as, like, my case and shit,

a lot of stuff had started to come out. And my attorney was like, you're, like, he's like, he's like, we got this beat and he started the chick so i ended up finding all this information out after well the whole thing was was once i dropped off that chick the chick who i used to date a couple like once they found out that we were the ones that stole the cell phone me and my homie um they found out when they found out that was us they were they were mad as fuck so they called the cops and told them that me and him had raped her to try to get us in trouble.

And the same chick who called the cops and reported it came forward when I had my trial date set and wrote a letter and was like, hey, I just wanted to let you guys. I just, I felt like I needed to come forward and come clean and let, let it be known that, like, I dated DJ in high school. Like, he's, he's not that type of dude. We were upset about the phone being stolen that night, and old girl had just got out of a three-year relationship with her boyfriend, and she had, she was, like, she was embarrassed that she had slept with both of them that night.

And so she's like, when we found out that they were the ones that stole the phone and shit, she's like, we called you guys and reported this. So between that and it wasn't, it wasn't, there was no evidence in the case. It was a he say, she say case. That was the whole thing. So when I was going back and forth, they came back and offered me. I was on two five to lives, mind you. I'd go to trial and lose. That's a minimum of 10 years, like a minimum of 10. And they came back and

offered me two Class B misdemeanors. There's two misdemeanors. And my attorney did not even hesitate. At the time, he was, he was, it was a public defender too, but he was actually trying to make a name for himself. He wasn't like most of them. And he, he was like, no, we're not taking it. And I was like, two Class B misdemeanors from whatever, from whatever way, and I'm a young ass kid too, I was like, from whatever way, tell him in the section, take that. And he's like, no, we got your case beat. He's like, they're trying to fuck you over.

He's like, no, we're going to trial. And he's like, we've got pictures of them at the party drinking. Old girl was trying to say she wasn't drinking that night. The UN found pictures. He had the letter from old girl coming forward saying she was the one that called. doing all that and my buddy was supposed to come in and testify at the time saying that he had slept with her that night too and my yeah my attorney was like no we're not we're not taking a deal we're going to trial so it's like okay cool whatever like I didn't I didn't know any better and

it was like a week before trial my attorney showed up and he's like I got some bad dudes when I was like, so a lot of our evidence is being thrown out and we can't use it because when you and her had sex, nobody was present. So he's like, it throws out a lot of our, a lot of our case. And he's like, so what it's coming down to is he's a he say, she say case. And he's like, I would hate to tell you to take the deal knowing that we could go to trial and beat it. But he's like, but I would also hate for you to go to trial and lose and be stuck with two fight of lives

when we could have took the one to 15. They came back with a one to 15 is what they did. So he's like, because they threw out the evidence, now the offer is a one to 15. and they won't give you prison time. They'll just give you probation. You'll be released today. And you're done.

At the time, I was, that was my very first time doing time. It was nine months. All I gave a fuck about was getting out. Like, oh, no prison. Oh, and I'm getting out today? Like, okay, let's do it.

So, well, I ended up going back to the section and calling my parents first. And I was like, hey, this is what they're offering me now. Like, this is what they want me to take. and my the whole entire time everybody in there was like dude you need a paid lawyer if you got a paid lawyer you're good like if a public defender is able to do all this for you a paid lawyer is going to get you off this shit like you need a paid lawyer and so I'd like try to tell my parents that on the phone and they'd be like you're not supposed to listen to dudes in there don't we

they don't know they're just trying to tell you things like so when all this came down to and I was like, hey, this is the offer. If I don't take it, we're going to trial. They're like, well, I guess we can get you a paid lawyer maybe. And I was like, after all this time, like I've been telling you guys this whole time and now that it's towards the end,

now you want to get me a paid lawyer? Like, no, like I'm not going to sit at the time. If I knew what I knew now, I don't give a fuck if I sit in there two more years, it would have been worth doing that to be done or even get it to a zero to five or whatever. I didn't know what I was signing up for by taking a one to 15. And all I heard about was getting out. So I was just like, no, I'm just going to take.

So I end up taking the deal. They let me out. And I was, the judge told me zero tolerance probation. And he was like, A, like when I say, zero tolerance, I mean it. And I wasn't even out six months and ended up violating

on a probation violation, which went back in front of the same judge, and he's like, I hate to do this to you because you're so young, but he's like, I told you zero tolerance and that's what I meant. And so he's like, I'm going to re-invoke your

and send you to prison on your original sentence. So I ended up getting sent to prison and I didn't even know what I was looking at. From dudes in there, like, you have a different matrix. Like, if you're on a drug charge or whatever else, like, normally a second degree felony in Utah is one to 15 years. And, like, the matrix for a different charge is, like, for your first time, like, 18 months or two years or whatever. So, but unless you, like, directly know both sides of it, people don't know that when you have a sex case,

your matrix are completely different. So, like, dudes were telling me, oh, you're looking about it like two years, probably, blah, blah, blah. Well, I ended up getting to prison and the day I got in there, they meet with the caseworker dude. and I was like, hey, so how long am I looking at? And he's like, right there, 54, or 54 months. I was like, 54 months. That's like, he's like, five and a half years. And I was like, am I going to do that long?

And he's like, oh, yeah. And he's like, you'll be, that'll be lucky if you only do that. And I was like, just shocked and blown back. I was like, well, I was just sick to my stomach when I was in prison. but when I ended up taking the deal, what it came down to with the trial thing is my attorney's like, they have you because you admitted that you guys had sex. And he goes, in the state of Utah, having sex with somebody who is intoxicated is the same as them not giving consent because they're not in the right state of mind. So he said, based on that, they have you.

And so that's why I ended up taking the deal. And yeah, so. People are full of surprises, especially when you travel together. Thankfully, Verbo is not. When you book a Verbo, you get Verbo care and 24-7 live support. So your house doesn't surprise you like your friends might. If something's not as described or doesn't work, Verbo's there. Real people. Real support.

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And I tried to say that I was like, I was drunk too. I'm a fucking, like, how does that? And they're like, it doesn't matter. It does not matter. It does not matter if you're both intoxicated. or whatever, you're legally not in the right state of mind to give consent. But do you feel like you were not intoxicated enough to not remember the evening? No, I remembered, like, I don't, how do I put this?

Like, it was such a long time ago, but I know at the time, like, I would get pretty drunk around that. But, I mean, I was driving and we'd, like, stop for a minute. So I wouldn't say that I was, like, super, super drunk at the time, like, during any of that. That was kind of after the fact I had stopped drinking, like, way before that. So I wasn't, like, I wasn't, like, blacked out fucking acting a fool, don't know what I'm doing type shit. Like, it wasn't anything like that. Now, when did she actually report the rape?

Because why would they wait three months later? Oh, three months later. Yeah. And that's acceptable in court to report that three months later? Don't know. That's what I, and that's why we were thinking, this case is, they found out that they stole the phones, got mad. Like old girl said, she literally, the one that called the cops came forward and said, hey, this is why we did it. Like, and it just wasn't, they can just call, they just called after and said that. shit and did she give a reason as to why she waited three months no I don't know anything other

than and I've never even seen that chick or talk to her since or the chick that I got in trouble for I don't even I didn't even that was the first night I ever met her and the last time I ever met her like did she show up at sentencing uh sentencing I don't think she was at sentencing I don't her being a sent. Maybe she was, yeah. I think I do remember. She wasn't at all of the court dates, but I'm pretty, there was like two of them,

I believe that she was at. So like one at the very beginning when she had to come in and testify or whatever, and then I think she was at one of the ones towards the end. I don't know that it was the sentencing one because I got probation at first. So when I violated and,

got actually sentenced to prison as far as like when I got picked up on my violation and sent to prison, shoot, no, no. I'd never seen or heard from her since. Why didn't you get bail when you got arrested? No, even county. Two, five to life's is, it would have been 50,000, 50,000. So at the time, my parents would have literally had to put up all their assets, their house and vehicles and they knew that I was just running amuck and they told me flat out like or we don't trust you like we're not going to bail you out and have you run or do something stupid to where we

lose everything so they're like you're just going to and and my my mom's brother it was a a bigger judge in davis county and in Utah as well and and so kind of during the whole thing my mom would call him and get advice and whatever else and so like it kind of he would kind of like basically tell whatever he said my parents would go off of and go with and so at the time yeah it was just like no we're not we're not bailing you out you're going to have to just sit in there and and write it out your uncle said that the time's all counting so if they do make you do time, and this counts. And it was just kind of one of those things where I was just stuck.

Were your parents supportive during the trial, or do you feel like they kind of pulled away? No. In the very beginning, they were super supportive. That first little stint in jail, the nine months. And then even when I violated and went to prison for the first time, that whole five-and-a-half years, my mom at least, like a letter once a week for that five and a half years, every single week I got a letter from her. So, and they took care of me for sure, for sure. And I kind of

growing up, like, I was the youngest and my mom did. She spoiled me. Like, I was her baby. So, like, I kind of, yeah, I got what I wanted type shit. And so in there, like she took care of me and whatever else, made sure I was good. Once I got out after that and I started getting high and messing up even after getting out on parole the first time, then I ended up. So I just expirated that one to 15 in November, the end of November. November 26th, two months ago, I expirated that one to 15 the full entire time. And I'm 34 now, just turned 34 last week. But I did that whole 15 and went back to prison nine times in and out.

Well, so eight other times on violations. Do you wish you never took that deal? Yeah Yeah I regret it Because even When it comes down to it Like I don't

If I would have known What I know now And experienced And it went through the shit That I have Because of this charge There's no way in fuck I would have took it I would have been better off

Just rolling the dice in trial, like, I wouldn't have just took a one to 50, no, especially on this type of charge, no. I'd, and I kicked myself in the ass, too, because I'm just like, if a public defender was able to get me, what he got me, a paid lawyer could have probably easily got me a misdemeanor, or at very least a zero to five, not a one to 15. and so I just But back then I was just antsy

I wanted to get the fuck out I didn't I didn't realize what the fuck I was signing up for so when I got out and after the five and a half I got out the first time

went right back right back to the using my parents they had a job lined up for me I got out they bought me my first car or whatever I wanted I got a nice ass Mustang, like, it was living with them, rent-free.

Like, I got out and I was handed everything again, and I just, within six months of being out after the first time, got a DUI, totaled my Mustang was racing, or smashed into the back of another car going 50, shot them through the intersection. My car was totaled, and I just literally just sat there with a broken, nose, blood all over just in my car, drunk as fuck, waiting for the cops could hear the sirens coming.

Just sat in my car, let him come arrest me, and went back. Then, I did six months on the first violation. Got out, was out, eight months, went back again. That one, I believe was for, I got a, I think it was a possession charge. And I did, I think I did six months on that one. And then I got out again and ended up getting another DUI. And yeah, it was in and out, in and out. I went back, like I said, eight times.

I had like three new possession charges to the two DUIs. two of the times I got sent back was just strictly like parole violations, no new charges, just violations for, I think, well, I'd went on the run one of the times actually, so. But the one violation was just for like not attending classes and then there was another one where I got sent back for dirties one time. So, I mean, it was just, it's been kind of a,

a shit show since since I've been out or since I got out the first time. Now as a part of that first plea deal you took, do you have to register as a sex offender? Yes. For the rest of your life or just a time period? No, it's part of my, so 2011, they ended up switching it to where now if you are getting hit with a sex beef, then it's like an automatic lifetime registry. mine, we put it in the stipulations and made it part of my agreement that it was a 10-year registry. But, and I didn't know this at the time either, but your 10 years doesn't start until you get off of parole. So I've been on it the last 15 years.

And now that I'm done and off the parole, now my 10 years, I guess, has started. they haven't gave me because I just barely recently got off parole. They haven't put it in the system as exactly when my tenure date is up. But after that, then no, I don't have to. And it falls off. But this whole time you've been registered on it, it starts right away. Now, in actual state prison, Utah state prison, how do they treat you? You mentioned how they treat you in county, but is it different in prison?

Um, so when I got to prison, it was kind of the same thing. I ended up, so in Utah, when you hit prison, especially back then, there's all the county jails in the state. there's probably like 15, 20, I don't know, somewhere around there, like, jails in the state that house state inmates at it. They get paid by the state to house state inmates at their facilities. And how Utah does it is a lot of those facilities, like the county jails that you can get sent to, a lot of them have programs offered at them. If it's on your mapping, when you first go into prison,

if it's on your mapping that you got to do a program or whatever, like there are them at the prison, but a lot of times you end up getting sent to a county jail for at least some extent of your sentence. You're doing a couple months at least to the county jail. jail or whatever and and a lot of times the county jails end up i mean prison has its perks for sure as far as like what's available and like they're set up for you for long-term housing but the counties some of those counties that i ended up going to and shit they at that time what you could have

there and shit was it was crazy like order order out of eat Bay or your Jordans like sweats like DVD players there was a we had a DVD library to where you could just like a whole packet in the section you could just fill out oh I want these anybody that came to the facility with any of the CDs or whatever they had bought it was just downloaded into a music library you could get MP3s and fill out hey I want this and this added on to my playlist and like they'd come around and add music to your shit or you could get the rent the DVDs and it was just like wear your own clothes like you could go from section to section if I had a homie on the over in the other section that I wanted to cut my hair or something

I'd be like hey let me let me go over there and then take you over there let you chill like if it was like one of our birthdays or something and we wanted to like make a cake or do a have a spread or whatever. Like some of those guards like we're cool enough. We'd be like, hey, can you go to Walmart and get this and this and this for me? And they'd come like pull us out at three in the morning, put us into a little room, put a microwave in there, fucking, and just let us just kick it. And like they'd come in.

And I know it's weird to say, but like the cops would sit down and fucking, they were like, all right, dude, like they sit down and fucking played cars with us and shit, spays. and like they'd bet us and if they lost, which we'd beat their ass every time. But like, if they lost, I'd be like, no, I want a fucking two-liter mountain to do. I want some fucking real coffee. And like, bring me like two cases of ramen noodles.

Sure, I know. Like the middle of the night when everybody else is asleep, you'd fucking pop open the door. Hey, come grab your shit. Put it where nobody can see it. I bet. So it was just, but not. all county jails are like that.

How did the guards feel about your charges? So the facility that I'm talking about, that one specifically, that one was, so not all of them are like this, but there's probably like four jails in the state that house nothing but prison inmates' sex offenses, the whole jail. and so when you go to a jail like that like I know people group a sex offense or sex offender or whatever

it's like the it's a blanket effect like they assume that it's the same type case or you got the same fucking issues or whatever like just a piece of shit like it's not always the case And I'm not saying that I'm any better than anybody because I'm not.

But my shit is different. And it's not a fucking kid case. And I'm not that type of fucking dude. And so, like, regardless of it, like, I'm not going to take that fucking label or anything like that. And I do consider myself different than that do. So unless there's, it's not very common. and it's not all the time. Like when you get sent to a jail like that, yes, 95% of those motherfuckers are weirdo,

like creepy-ass fucking, like, piece of shit motherfuckers who deserve to be in there. I've had to go through when you're on a sex offense in the state of Utah, like you have to do, it's called SOTP. And it's, it's sex offender treatment program. That's what it is. And back then it was 18 months long. Like, it was an 18. 18 month program and because I was intoxicated and they knew that I was drinking at the time and

using drugs they mapped me for a drug program too so I had an 18 month drug program I had to do and I had the 18 month sex fendent therapy that I had to do what's that program like it's so it's wild um I ended up when I did the program, I did it at a facility where they had just barely got a therapist there and barely opened the program. So my group was the very first group of guys to go through the treatment. And at first, like, mind you, you will not get, if you, if you, have a sex beef and you do not complete treatment, you will not get out of prison. You will fucking be in there until you complete it and then do whatever time they want you to do.

But it doesn't, if you got a lifetop or something, like there was dues in there that have been kicked out of the program six, seven times and just can't fucking figure it out. Like, they can't do it. And they'll stay in there until they do. Like, and not only that, like, when we, you'd have to do your, your groups. So you had, like, groups twice a week, and then you're one-on-one with the therapist once a week. And, like, there's just a grip of assignments, big-ass packet. Like, the very first assignment was, like, a 30, minimum 30-page autobiography, like, running through your life type shit. and like you have to go into these groups and like go over these assignments and and the therapist

runs it based on your case and shit and in the very beginning we'd go into these groups and like these dudes would be trying to like talk about their shit and it's I don't want to hear that shit I don't relate to that I don't like I don't want to hear what the fuck like uh-uh-uh, I'm good on all that. So like, and part of your participation was like, you got to give these dudes feedback or like tell them something about their shit. And it was just like, every time it was like, I ain't got shit to say. I don't know what you want me to say. Like, how can I fucking relate to this dude or whatever the fuck? And so it ended up to where me and one other, the therapist pulled out

me and one other dude and he told us look, you guys, your cases are different. And he's like, your issue is not a sex thing.

He goes, you have a drug and alcohol problem. And he's like, I know you just did a drug and alcohol program, but he's like, we're just going to, he's like between us, like, yours is going to be more focused on drugs and alcohol for me and the one other dude and he's like and I can kind of see that there's issues with the groups so he's like

I can't completely separate it but he's like I'm going to from now on kind of like categorize it dudes who maybe had cases similar to mine or out of fucked up got caught up on some dumb shit or whatever you guys are over here these other dudes are over there so once he did that

it wasn't too bad but like they're pretty strict and run their shit pretty like you have to it's called the the people call it the Peter meter

but it's a plizmograph and they hook you up to a fucking machine and it like monitors your heart rate, your, on your finger, everything else. And like, it plays scenarios.

They used to show videos, like actual videos of fucking kids and shit. But now it's, it's all just a recording that you listen to. But they hook them up to that shit. And they play scenarios of some, some six, sick shit and if to see what they're aroused to see what they're attracted to and they they can't lie about the shit like if they're attracted to that and they're into that shit

and they fucking get hard because of that shit or whatever else the therapist knows I don't know I'm a motherfucker you're lying and they're like so there's no way around it for them when it comes to that shit but they make them pass that and then they also make them do two lie detector tests. So they have to do one when they first enter into treatment and then they have to do like an exiting polygraph to get out of treatment.

And those questions are anywhere from like, do you have any other victims? Do you like, is there shit that you've done that you haven't told us about? And, and you're not getting through treatment unless you pass that shit either. So it's a pretty intense treatment when you're in there for them to get through along with with everything else.

But it's just you go to a gel like that and you're around those type of dudes. And it's just like I get it. I have a sex beef on my shit. But like I just, it sometimes it's hard being around like and knowing. or hearing the stories and just these dudes are are sexually deviant like to where even it doesn't stop because they're in there these motherfuckers are like the haircuts how I told you we used to just be able to go from section section and cut hair or whatever that got shut down because two dudes were in there sucking each other off like like they yeah it's it's when it comes to that it seems

like there's just, I don't know, they'd be in there doing sexual shit with each other and getting caught and some of those dudes in it. It's just, I don't know. I don't like being around that shit, like me personally, like I would rather be in the prison I did after I did programs and shit or whatever, like, and going back on my violations and shit. And the first time I was into, I bounced back and forth from prison to county to like and then we got two different prisons in Utah so you could get sent to either one of them. And Utah doesn't necessarily, other dudes will tell you different, but it's not. They don't give a fuck what your charge is. They'll house you wherever.

You're getting thrown into a section that's got the politics are heavy. There's a lot of gangbangers in there. like it doesn't matter what section you get thrown into um and if you're on a case like that if you're on some kid shit or whatever you're not lasting long if you're not rolled out of there that day then within a couple days or whatever if they're not extorting you or charging your rent or whatever then then you're you're getting out of that section but in in Utah and I I understand understand that feds or or maybe other states this shit could be way different. I'm just speaking

off of like how it was for me and how it is in Utah like because they'll just house whoever with whoever like if you are on a fucked up case like yeah you're not last long you're out of there. But on shit like mine, circumstances like mine, you kind of just are left alone and And so, and first going into a section, I never lie about my shit. And it's, in Utah, it's still political. As soon as you go in, like, the white boys want to know, hey, what's your shit? Like, and I was straight up with them. And I never had any problems with them other than, like, when they found out that

that was my shit. And then, Miro, I don't care if you're fucking. black, brown, purple, yellow. Like, if you're my homie or my homie, like, if you're, like, if we're riding together, we're riding together. I don't care what color you are. Like, you got me, I got you type shit. And so I didn't, I kicked it with a lot of the black dudes, the Mexicans, whatever.

Like, I honestly feel like I relate more to them and get along better with them. I'm not necessarily, it's nothing against. white do white boys or anything like that it's just that like that's just not my thing i wasn't raised that way i don't believe in that shit i'm not going to carry myself regardless if i didn't have a sex beef or not like i wouldn't go that route and in utah it's just when it comes to the white boys specifically it's kind of like they'll just recruit whoever the fuck because it's just numbers. It's a numbers game. And I understand that. But like, I'm not a fucking weak-ass dude. I'm not a small dude. Like, I'll handle my shit when it comes to me. Like, and just to see

motherfuckers in there, like, some corny ass weird little dude, like, whatever else that they're just, like, all loyal to and like, all, like, all this. And then just, like, to me just like, be based on that. It was just kind of like, whatever. I see, I see what it is.

Like, cool. Because you were in and out of the prison system, did you always have to re-explain yourself? So the, kind of the first couple times I did. Towards the end, like the last couple times,

I've done a lot of time now and being attached to, artist and being covered in tasks and like being into sports and shit and like I was that's doing my time a tattoo and work out that's that's how I do my time like and when you touch down into a section as I like and I'm not even I don't even I'm not even a big name tattoo artist or nothing I'm not known. I'm not like, but if you're a tattoo artist who actually like knows how to tattoo and not just a dude who claims that he does and is doing it for a hustle and you touch down in a section, the work kind of speaks for itself sort of thing. Like I don't, I'm, I'm a quiet dude. Like,

anybody that knows me, I'm chill as fuck. I kick back like and that's just how I am. But like, I just mind my business, dog. Like, I'm respectful to people. Like, and when I would sit down and draw or whatever, I would get ponios you could order, like, the white handkerchiefs off commissary and shit. And so a lot of people would order those and draw on them, pens and stuff, and sell them. And so I was doing, like, portraits of rappers and shit, just big on the ponios and those 100 bucks. a piece just like nothing so I kind of started doing like little hustles like that with the drawings

and then I at any time I touched down in a section I always would try to find a motor and so then just start tattooing whether I've done a lot of time now to like seem like no matter where I would go I would touch down in a section where maybe some dude had been around me or knows what was up or that I'm cool with and shit. And so I'd end up busting something out on them, a tattoo or whatever. And then people in the section would see it. And, like, oh, who the fuck did that? And then when they found out it was me, it was just kind of like, there was times when

I would even have the white boys. Like, they couldn't fuck with me because of my shit. And they had to act a certain way around their homies. But, like, on the low, it was. DJ, can you, can you draw up my shit for me and fucking fuck, I wish it you could do it. But I can't. Like, I'd have other other dudes in there that were just like, fuck, bro, I wish you weren't a fucking sex offender.

I move you into my fucking house, but I can't fucking live with you. And it was just one of those things where like I would rather have it be open and out there like that to where it is to where they were just like, it was more of like a joking thing because they knew that it was a fucked up case that it was just on some fucking bullshit. So I kind of liked it better that way to where they're just like, man, his shit's like,

he's actually a cool motherfucker. And so I just, I don't know. I didn't really, like, I'd left my options open as far as I fucked with everybody. I just did my time and tried to stay out of the drama and did I at was there times where my shit came out or somebody did like have an issue with it or wanted to depress me because of it did that happen yes absolutely I'm not saying I just skated through like nothing like untouchable no I I there was plenty of times where my shit was the center

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Save on the stay. Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Well, I hope you like my little song. Book direct at sourcehill-tales.com. Me, because of that fact or whatever, and there was issues, but... Can you explain your tattoos? do you feel like it's you're you're using it as a method to kind of hide from who you once were? Um, because you've covered your whole body in them.

So I got my first one in high school when I was still in high school. I drove around to like six different shops in Ogden until I found one shop that forgot to ID me and have me fill out the paperwork before I got the tattoo. And then he was like halfway through and he was like, oh, I for. got to have you sign the paperwork like you're 18 right and I was like yeah yeah I'm good and so I got my first one then that was the only one that I had when I got locked up but all growing up like I was always art was was big to me like my mom would put me in art classes and shit during the summer and like so I was always drawn towards art and enjoyed it and and did it since I was little so

when I hit prison, that's where I got good at drawing. And that's when, like, I was already into tattoos. Like, I liked the idea of it. I thought they were cool as fuck. Like, self-expression thing. Like, I was in, I liked them. So when I got to prison, you're around all these dudes that are fucking hell of tatted and shit, I'm just like, I liked.

the image like I was like damn I'm a motherfucker that's a it's a badass motherfucker like he's tatted as fuck and so I just kind of like between being into artwork and the look of it I just I was like no I'm gonna get slung a fuck down but when I started out I wasn't planning on doing all this like I did my I got a bunch of shit done in prison and then but when I got out I didn't have anything visible everything was my chest back half sleeves like there was nothing visible and and I ended up getting a full sleeve when I got out and I was like okay that's probably that's probably it because my parents at still at the time like they didn't like the tattoos still at this point and so then I ended up getting both my arms done

and then I was like okay out of respect for my parents though like I'll never do my hands or from the neck up and then in between in between there was a big period for probably like six years seven years maybe even longer to where me and my parents cut off like they didn't they're like you want to you want to live that lifestyle and keep going back then we we ain't helping you like you're on your own you want to do that okay go do it and so they cut me off so that when I was in and out that's when I said fuck it I ended up doing my hands and my neck and when everybody like when I was in when they would see my shit they would be like hey do you like are you do you tattoo you should tattoo and then it kind of put the idea in my head I never

had and I was hell in art and I liked tattoos and I like tattoos and I was like tattooed And I was planning on getting tattoos. Like I liked it, but I didn't even think about that really. And so then I ended up getting out. It's been about, I've been tattooing professionally for about seven years, six years now. But right before I started, I had just got out. And I was like, fucking, I'm just going to start tattooing out of my house. And then maybe if my shit's good enough, then a shop isn't going to turn me down.

So I just started tattooing out of my parents' basement. And I just got enough pieces together or I had a portfolio and went into a shop and showed the dude. And I was like, hey, dude, like, I didn't do an apprenticeship, but here's my work. Like, do you need somebody? And he's like, yeah, you can come work in my shop. So I started working in a shop ever since then. but once I like was established as far as knowing like no this is what I'm going to do then at that point like I had had quite a few tattoos and to other people like this is extreme

as fuck like and I get it it is it's it's a lot but like it's also an attention attention thing as well so it's like i can't go nowhere without somebody asking something about them or or something so it's just like it kind of after i started tattoo and that's when i kind of just said fuck it i was like i'm gonna i was never planning on doing my face like this it just oh it's when it comes to tattoos i i feel like it's it's it's therapeutic for me for sure, but at the same time, like, it's just, it's an addiction for sure, too. Like, I got to get one and I think I need another one and think I need one over here. And, bro, no, I ain't got nothing.

So, do you regret the face tattoos at all? No. Not as of yet and as of right now still, no. I don't. I, for me, bro, it's, I've, went through a lot of shit in the last couple of years and so

and just like ever since being on this shit like you kind of you got people that it'll just call your work hey you know you got a fucking sex friend or blah blah blah make issues about that uh getting into a fucking apartment or a place

impossible like you're living in some fucked up like not everybody but just it's a struggle to find a place to to get a job to do any of that and then even when you do like i've had numerous exes over the years just as soon as we start beefing that want to throw my shit on social media or fucking call my work or and try to like oh fucking boycott get me out of there like and so and along with that like yes society looks at somebody that's on this type of case,

like you're a fucking no good piece of shit. And I can't even like, I'm not trying to any way whatsoever, like sit here and fucking defend sex offenders or be, no, you're absolutely right. Like nine times out of ten when you hear that shit, like that is a sick motherfucker. Like, deserves what he's got coming to him type shit.

But for the source, small percentage, which mine happens to fall into. Like, bro, I was 18. I was six months older than her. It wasn't an age. The charge had nothing to do with age. It wasn't even a rape kid. It was literally because she's intoxicated that I get hit with.

But society don't know that. They see a fucking label. And my look doesn't help. I know that for sure. You don't see a motherfucker like me and be like, oh, he's a responsible, respectable dude. Like, people don't look at me. Like, once they get to know me,

then it's kind of like, all right, his tattoos don't necessarily match his appearance. His appearance doesn't match his personality, but. How hard is it to date, especially with those kind of charges? What's that like? Is that something that, like, comes up on the first date? Yeah. Oh, no.

So it's an embarrassing. It's embarrassing, bro. Like, it's embarrassing as fuck. And would you start talking to somebody or whatever? Like, that's not the first thing I want to lead with. Like, hey, by the way, like, here's this. Like, I normally, how I went about it was just like, if it was a chick that I was into and, like, I'd seen something with and wanted to pursue, then, like, normally I would,

just let them get to know me and then usually before I actually met them the first time or whatever then I'd be like hey check this out like I wasn't keeping this from you and I normally would like tell them yeah I'm on parole blah blah blah blah like and if they ended up asking me direct then it was just yeah sometimes it did happen like right from the beginning to where it was like okay oh this is this is what it was and luckily at least for the one ones i've been with like they've all i've never had a female that's been like oh what the fuck like no it's it's it's they've always been like once i've explained the situation to them and told them what happened then they were usually like okay like and they've they've looked past it like not that it's

been and the timing thing's kind of weird too because sometimes like they will find out before I tell them or whatever else and so then it it's one of those things to where like people that I went to school with or that knew me back then and the partying days and whatever else like and because I'm still in or up until recently was still in my hometown everybody knows everybody fucking everybody's still there like my shit at that time when it first happened was out there and kind of big and i had people that uh i had like homies and shit that i was close to the turn on me that other people that just were like after that separated themselves and and some of them were like like brothers to me type shit to or like their moms were like my second mom and

And then that shit happened. And it was like for some periods, it seemed like they were still supportive of me and still my homie. And then it end up like now at this point, dog, I ain't got nobody. I ain't got there's, I don't have any homies. Like there's, there's none of that either. It's been, I can't say that I've surrounded myself with the, best group of individuals over the years either so i mean i'm i'm kind of glad that i'm on my own type shit but just like all the dudes that i considered homies at one point or another

done some shady shit or ended up talking shit about whatever and so it's just like i don't i don't really associate with anybody. What's your relationship with your parents now? It's good now. Now that I'm off of parole, like, it's always been a stressful thing for them because they're older and my mom's got cancer and like it's, it's for her, I know it's really hard on her when I'm locked up. And even out here, they know what I go through out here and shit.

But as long as, like, they see that I'm sober and trying to do good, then they're super supportive. So, like, our relationship now and for the last basically year that I've been out, it's been a lot better. Like, this is the first time they've, like, they've been super, super supportive of me, help me out quite a bit. like and this is the first time that I've had that with them in years and so it's nice to at least have that rapport with them and kind of get that back what do you think is a learning lesson you want people to take away from your story um just that I wish people maybe took a little bit more time to uh before they just jump to conclusions and and put a label on somebody and or like, I don't think people realize, like, I still even to this day, like,

my daughter passed away last year. But, yeah, I lost my daughter last year, and then my wife committed suicide four years ago when I was in on Christmas. But really it's just the jumping. to conclusions and putting a label or or bro i got people that still like just with the online shit posting post the shit like i have a private studio now for tattoos but that's not necessarily like i was at a shop and because of that shit and all the drama that comes with it lost that work there no more and that that's been that's been kind of an ongoing thing with the tattoo

shit too because like if you're a tattoo artist working in a shop client comes in or whatever a lot of your shit you're you're you're promoting yourself you're it's all especially nowadays like it's all online it's all if you ain't doing fucking videos and like have the nice ass camera set up for your pictures and shit after and all that shit like you ain't gonna make it like you have to be involved on the social media aspect of shit to to get by and when you have a case like this like it's you got it can be anybody real like somebody can come in and get tattooed and then after find out later on about your shit they're calling hey what the fuck blah like or Like I said, my exes would call my daughter's mom.

Like when I was in, bro, she was dead set on trying to, like, sabotage me from being able to work into a shop. Being able to work at a shop. She literally went into shops all around Ogden and was like, hey, he's about to get out. Are you going to hire him? Don't hire him. Like, it's, and it's not just her too. It's been numerous people at numerous different times or, like, places. live. I've been kicked out of places

like because of it and type shit to where it's just like I was just people would be a little bit more like I guess open to knowing which is part of the reason why I want to do this too that like not all of them and big majority yes like you're absolutely right you you hear about that shit like you should

like run type shit but like there are some dudes of it and caught up on some fucked up shit and it's not easy like being on just in life in general having that shit especially when you're on parole when you're on parole and you got those stipulations like it's outside just your regular stipulations that you have on parole like you got a whole fucking laundry list of like other shit like you can't go here, you can't go there, you can't, you're technically, like, part of my stipulations when I got out on parole was I wasn't allowed to date women with children. And even though I had nothing to do with my shit, it's still a rule. Do POs and make exceptions? Yes. My POs, every single one of them I had made exceptions for me when it came to stuff like that because they

knew that wasn't my shit. But, and so I just, it's already hard enough. So when you got people just out of just pure hate that are just doing shit to motherfuckers to make shit harder on them, like, that's just, that's just petty fucking evil bullshit. Like, so I just, yeah, it's. Dylan, I appreciate you coming on the show today. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, thank you for being so open with the audience and sharing your story. Yeah, appreciate you, Doug. Thanks for having you out. You did great.