Locked In with Ian Bick - How Teenagers Are Treated in New York State Prisons | Nick Blanc

Episode Date: October 14, 2024

Nick Blanc joins me to discuss how teenagers are treated in the New York State prison system. We dive into the harsh realities, challenges, and what life is really like for young offenders behind bars. Nick shares insights from his experiences and sheds light on the impact the system has on teenagers #YouthInPrison #TeenagersInPrison #CriminalJusticeReform #PrisonSystem #JuvenileJustice #NewYorkPrisons #PrisonReform #TeenageOffenders Thank you to our Sponsors this week: Magic Mind: They have a limited offer you can use now, that gets you up to 48% off your first subscription or 20% off one time purchases with code LOCKED20 at checkout You can claim it at: https://www.magicmind.com/locked Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Connect with Nick Blanc: Watch Nick's podcast: https://youtube.com/@blancsgoldpodcast?si=a-dyDq1SaIgOHUp4 Follow him on IG: @blancs_gold @blancsgold_podcast Follow him on Tiktok: blancsgold_podcast Check out his website: https://blancsgoldanddiamonds.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Growing Up in Brooklyn: Challenges and Resilience 00:03:55 Unexpected Eviction and Financial Struggles 00:08:12 Facing Life After Shelter Eviction 00:11:53 Growing Up Around Gangs: Choices and Challenges 00:15:30 Earning a GED in Prison 00:19:18 Wrongful Accusation and Military Implications 00:23:04 Challenges of Adolescents at Rikers Island 00:26:50 Corruption in Jail 00:30:34 Life in New York State Prisons: An Inmate's Perspective 00:34:22 Life in Prison: Facing Challenges and Adaptation 00:38:21 Entrepreneurial Spirit and Early Ventures 00:42:14 Aspirations and Manifesting Change 00:46:05 Life at Boot Camp: The Daily Routine 00:50:02 Returning to Drug Dealing Despite Past Consequences 00:54:00 Navigating Employment as a Felon in New York 00:57:48 Navigating Temptations of the Past 01:01:36 Achieving Success in the Jewelry and Real Estate Industries Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Discover the collection at agjeens.com and enjoy 15% off with code summer 15, even if you've shopped with us before. Nick, welcome to Lockton, man. Pleasure having you. You're in New York City now? Yeah, I'm from Brooklyn. Ray's Brook. I still live in Brooklyn. And you guys have a jewelry store in New York City, too.

Yes, Brooklyn, Williamsburg. Awesome, and it just opened up? We've been there for like two years now, so we're still pretty new year. Oh, awesome, man. Well, congratulations. Thank you. And we'll have the link to that in the description of this episode. Have you ever heard of Magic Mind at all?

I think I've probably heard the advertisement on your channel. That's about it. Yeah, so it's like a mental performance energy boost, and I've been doing it, like, before we dive into these episodes because I've been doing longer episodes and so many a week now. I've been putting out like five episodes a week. So taking one of these before every episode helps a lot with, like, mental clarity and staying focused and kind of like dialed in. You want to try one of these? Are you in energy? Yeah, here, take a sip of that.

It's an energy drink? Yeah, it's a matcha flavored. It's not like one of those ones that, like, crashes you after you take it. It's like a truth serum now. No, it's like a interrogation thing. You opened it fresh right in front of me. How much did I drink? The whole thing?

Drink the whole thing, yeah. It's a good flavor. I don't know if you're into matra at all. Let me know what you think about that. It tastes pretty good. It tastes better than it looks. Yeah, you've got to shake it up. It's good, served cold.

I've been doing them daily now, and it really helps. You don't feel like burnt out after. Yeah. And it just helps with clarity. I mean, this would probably be good as being that we do with numbers, weight, all day. Yeah. It kind of gets draining. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Exactly. And it helps keep you focused. And it's really good. We'll have the promo code for them in the description of this episode. Thank you. Yeah, I was never really into macha growing up and stuff. And then, you know, we got magic mine and the match is pretty good. So did you grow up in New York? Yeah, I grew up in Brooklyn, born and raised. Brooklyn. Okay. What was that like growing up there? Growing up was a little rough for my brother and I. My father died when we were seven. and shortly after we dealt with, like, homelessness and things like that.

What did your parents do for work before he passed? Well, my father was old when he had us, so he was pretty much already sick, almost our whole life, diagnosed with the cancer and fighting that already. What about your mom? What did she do? She worked for, like, a real estate agency. Do you have any, like, fond memories with your dad, or are you too young? No, I remember we used to, like, go with him to the coffee shop every morning,

and we used to cry if we didn't wake up really enough to go with him. like that's about it. Now it was just you and your brother growing up. Yeah, since he was older, all of our siblings are way older than us, so we're not really close to them like that. Oh, you do have other siblings too. Yeah, we have a lot of siblings from his side, and we have like two more from our mom's side.

So they had met and then you have step siblings. Yeah. Okay, interesting. And the interesting fact also about your brother is he is your identical twin. Yeah. Were you guys born at the exact same time or minutes apart? I'm seven minutes older. Wow.

People tend to think he's older for some reason. Yeah, when you guys walked in, you're wearing the same outfits right now. Yeah. It's identical. Yeah. And he's in the jewelry business with you? Yeah, he's in the jewelry business, and he's also still on contract with the military. And that's also interesting part of your story is that one of you ended up in prison and one of you ended up in the military. Yeah.

So after your father passed, what was life kind of like for you guys? Why was that such a pivotal moment for you? Well, honestly, that was our first experience with death, and we had to see him with the casket. And, you know, when you're a kid, you don't think about how bad it is. But when you're older, you look back at stuff, and we see it through a different lens.

But it was tough because shortly after one day, we was playing basketball in the park, and my mom came with a shopping cart, and she basically told us that the marshals put a padlock on the door, and we got evicted. So it was, you know, at the time we didn't feel sad. We were more upset with her that she said that in front of our friends and embarrassed us.

So yeah, that's when everything took a turn right there. Did you understand what eviction was and what had happened? No, like I said, we was just mad that our friends heard it. That's it. And then from there, we started staying with family. Did you guys know you were financially struggling at all at the time? No idea. So it just caused completely off guard.

Were your friends well off or had money, or were they in the similar situation? I don't know. To be honest, I don't think we thought of it like that. I think, yeah, I think most of us were struggling financially because we were all doing, like, packing bags in the supermarket, shoveling snow, like, things like that to make money at a young age. And it was a bunch of us doing this. So I'm pretty sure we all came from, you know, the lower class.

How would your friends, if they were here right now, describe you and your brother? I think it depends on what point in my life they know me from. If you're talking childhood friends, they probably know us as, like, you know, a little, like to fight and things like that, mischievous, I would say. So you guys get evicted from your house. where do you guys go? At first we stood in a relative in bed-style Rosebell projects for a little while, and then we moved back to my original neighborhood, downtown Brooklyn,

Weikov projects with another relative, which it was still the projects, but we were happy just to be in the neighborhood we were familiar with again. Was your mom actively working, or was she struggling herself? She's struggling, yeah. She's a little off mentally, so, you know, raising us probably wasn't. And the easiest she was struggling to take it herself. Yeah. So we ended up being raised, like I said, by relative.

And she raised us until we was about 15. And when you say relative, is this like an aunt? Well, like I said, my dad was older. So technically, she's my niece, but we call her my aunt because she's older than me. So we just don't really get into that too much. Everybody knows how that has my aunt. Okay. Or like second mom, I guess you could say.

Yeah, a lot of people like refer to cousins or different family members as like a different type of family members. Yeah, by St. Nice, it would just look weird. Yeah, the age thing is definitely could cause that. Yeah. So she was raising you till 15. Were you guys actively going to high school? That's the thing. We was getting a lot of trouble doing bad stuff.

So eventually we got too much to manage. And we had to find another arrangement. And then that's when we went back with my mom. But at that point, she was in the shelter, so we had to stay while in the shelter. Oh, you guys actually stayed with her in the shelter. Yeah, but it was horrible in the sense of like she would work. The curfew was 9 p.m., but she would work until about midnight doing security. So we would have to be there for a curfew, but the building wouldn't allow us in without her because we were minors.

So we were literally standing outside from midnight to like one in the morning every day. And then, you know, it's just a bad neighborhood. And so it wasn't really a good situation for teenagers. Now describe what the shelter was like. Are you guys sharing a bed or do you get your own bed when you bring kids? Because you guys were a little bit older. No, it's kind of like an apartment. It was a, we had a bunk bed.

It's like a studio apartment. That's the best way to describe it with security. It's not like that. We were family. It's a family cell that's a little better than the men's shelter. The men's shelter is kind of like jail. I got to experience that for like a week when I was a little older. But back then it wasn't too bad.

It was just the neighborhood was bad. And it was like I said, when you were a teenager, it was a little embarrassing. so we didn't like it and eventually we even got kicked out of there to be honest Why did you guys get kicked out? And one day me and my brother started fighting each other and then the security guy ended up fighting them Did they give you guys food in the shelter?

No, but you know my mom get food stamps and stuff like that to buy the food with it. They don't feed on Thanksgiving. They'll give you free turkeys and stuff like that but yeah, not really. Was it hard seeing when you guys did go to school seeing other kids grow up a lot differently than you? I said when we was young, we didn't really notice it.

You know, it was everybody we knew. Once we was like 14, 13, we pretty much was outside kids anyway, and we was trying to make our own money. So we didn't really, it was just a living situation that was messed up. But we pretty much felt like we were older than we were at the time. So what happens after you guys get kicked out, the shelter? My mom called me crying, and she was mad at us, but we told her basically we didn't care because we didn't want to be there anyway.

And then that's when we really just, as I said, we was ready in the street, so it was nothing for us to find a friend's place to crash at and things like that. So we was actually happy at not being there. Do you think getting kicked out of the shelter caused you to, you know, get into more illegal activities or crime, so to say? I think the whole circumstance had us aggressive because, like I said, we was outside younger than we should be. So we definitely had pent up anger, and we felt the need to prove ourselves.

So, yeah, definitely, it was spiraled from that year because we had more freedom. We was able to move around and was doing all the wrong things. So what's like the first time you guys get into trouble as a teenager? I think when it was like 13, 14, regular stuff getting caught with knives. We got kicked out of school. And I think the first time I got really arrested and went through the system was for, I had a warrant for a knife, and then they locked me up for fireworks. And they was trying to charge me with like some crazy thing about like,

it's enough M80s to equal stick of dynamite. So they was trying to scam me with that. And that was the first time I went through the system. Why knives? Why fireworks? Well, knives because you carry it daily and you don't want to walk around everywhere with a gun, but you don't want to not have nothing either, you know? And fireworks, that just happened randomly.

It was the 4th of July. And they just caught me with the bag. And the cops, and you had a warrant out for your arrest for the knives. Yeah, so, yeah, like I said, the first time I went through the system, they told me I could either take five days and come back to court or I could take 10 days and get it over it. So I just took the 10 days. 10 days in a county jail? Yeah, Rikers down. That was my first time of Rikers.

Oh, you went to Rikers at, and how old were you at that? Oh, it just turned 16. Wow, what was that like at 16 years old? Well, honestly, it kind of set me up for failure later when I went back to Rikers because when I got there, you know, I was like the only adolescent. And so they was telling me, yo, shorty, better be careful. You know, they'd let me know what's going to happen. And then when I went up there, I remember I went in the bathroom and some kid was standing close behind me.

So when I turned around, I'm like, yo, you were right? And then he was trying me, but he was bluffing me because I realized after we was about to fight, a kid I knew came out the back. I was like, nah, I told you my boy's not no punk. And they left me alone. So I did that 10 days, no problem. But the dilemma was that I thought,

if you just show that you're tough, they'll leave you alone. And I learned later, now you can't bluff, you've got to prove it. So you were trying to act tough but not actually be tough? I was really real fight, yeah, but I was obviously scared. It was your first time in jail, yeah. So when you're 16 at Rikers, is there a separate area where they keep the teenagers? Yeah, so they keep the 16 and 19 separated in the housing units from the grown men, but you're in overall the building, you see them in the hallways and everything like that, yeah.

What about eating? Is that separate? It depends. It depends on a house. Not every house go to a mess hall. A lot of them, they bring the food to the cell block. And in your case, did you guys go to the mess hall? Well, that one, I was already sent to 10 days.

So, yeah, we was going to mess with, I think, yeah. So you're still exposed to, you know, older, dangerous figures at that age. Yeah, but I don't know about dangerous because they looked at the young kids like the dangerous ones. Seriously. Did you learn anything more about, like, crime? Like, do you think going to jail at that young age made you more of a criminal? Yeah, definitely, because you get praised when you come home as if you graduated college or something. just by members of the street and did family members praise you or just the street?

No, just the street. So what's that? Like you're again now after 10 days, which is really nothing, it's like a slap on the wrist. And what are people saying to you? Well, it was a pretty common. Everybody, I thought everybody went to jail at one point of another. So it was just like, all right, it was my turn to go pretty much. Were you and your brother ever, like, operating with any street gangs or anything like that?

Or did you say stay on your own, just in your own little groups? In the streets, we were affiliated with a lot of gang members, but we didn't actually join a gang. I did eventually join a gang later on, though. Why do you think you guys didn't want to join at a young age? Because we were friends with different gangs, and we didn't want it to be a conflict of interest. Because we moved around to a lot of neighborhoods, so we had crip friends, blood friends. We didn't want to join one and then not be cool with the other type of situation. So had you joined, like, the Crips, you wouldn't be able to be friends with the bloods?

Probably could have. but, you know, it just would have felt fake to them being that we hung out with them a lot, too, you know. Did you think that lifestyle was, like, cool or entertaining at that age? Not really. My thing was I just looked up to the drug dealers. I just wanted to be like, then, they had the power, they had the swag, and they had the money. Was that what it was for for you? Like, you wanted to become that?

It's not that I wanted to become. I wanted to become the aura that they had. I didn't care how I would have got it. I would have got it with a job if I had the opportunity as well at the time. But that's what we knew. Why do you think you didn't go the route of the job? You just mentioned about not having the opportunity. Was it someone not teaching you?

Because I never seen nobody that owned a business or anything that looked cool enough that I wanted to be like at the time. That's why now that I'm on a business owner, I hope to inspire some of the youth and show an outline that you could be cool, work a job, and work your way up. Why do you think that wasn't taught in your area and at your age at the time that it was cool to be successful running your own business? Well, people want it to be cool and successful. They just wanted to do it legally. I guess they didn't want to, you know, I'm sure you know how business is. It doesn't happen overnight like people would think.

It takes a lot of struggle and doing the wrong thing. You get instant results. You go outside. You make money today. You got a business. You make money. You reinvest it for years before you see a dollar. It's a grind.

And you have to, you know, while people are out partying and drinking, you have to be at, you know, home or at your business grinding, you know, putting in the hours. That's nonstop. I mean, we're here at a Sunday working. It never ends, you know. There's not like a fully day off. I'm sure you notice, probably with your podcast and career,

there's probably people who know that got inspired to get into it after they've seen your success. So that's why I say, if you have an outline of somebody with Maya doing something successful, you might try it. But if you don't have that to look up to, then how would you know? It's lucrative.

Yeah. All possibility. There's so many people that reach out about, you know, wanting to get into a podcast. You guys are starting one too. you were mentioning. Yeah, a jewelry-related podcast, but, you know, jewelry is kind of boring, so we're trying to highlight the individuals that wear the jewelry

and their story, how they're able to afford those things, what it means to them, and things in that nature. And there's a power and storytelling, you know, as we see with this podcast and a lot of other podcasts. Well, I do that. When I'm in the club with some, I see dudes with a lot of money and jewelry, I always wonder, what do they do for a living? So it's nice to get those people and then really ask them,

and maybe they can spy others, you know? Maybe you become one those, like, TikTokers that go up to the people at the nice jewelry and say, hey, what do you do? for work like they do with the apartments in the cars. Yeah, maybe. So what happens after you get out of Rikers? Are you kind of staying out of trouble or are you just getting into more trouble? I'm just getting into more trouble.

Well, you know, we was trying to, you know, hustle, sell drugs. And the older dudes weren't too fond of that. So we was having a hard time with that. But we wasn't letting nobody tell us nothing pretty much. And do you ever complete high school, get a degree or a diploma? I got my degree, my diploma in jail. And I actually got it faster than I would have in high school. Cool, because it was probably like a three or four week class or something.

Yeah, I got the GED at like probably 17. I would have graduated high school at 18. I came home with a GED. How old were you when you actually got a full prison sentence? I was 16. And how much time did you get? Two years. And what was that for?

It was an assault. Assault with a weapon. Me and my brother got into physical altercation with a guy from another neighborhood. He pulled out a knife and just, just got to mine quicker. And did you kill him? Did you hurt him? What happened? Actually, we got away from the scene after that happened, and he was in a coma, but when we had detectives calling our phone, and once he recovered, I turned myself in,

me and my brother. And did your brother actually get charged, or was it just you? Yeah, we were both charged, and they let him out after a few days, though, and they kept me, I guess, because the witnesses had more evidence to him talking about. It was crazy because we're twins. They didn't find a weapon either, so we could have probably beat it. with a good trial attorney, but we didn't want to risk it. And it was like, it's better one of us go instead of both of us.

So, yeah. And honestly, he got stabbed in the hand in the altercation. So I guess because he had a defensive wound that kind of helped him. And, you know, there's no self-defense in New York. So basically, even though I was helping my brother, they said I said, I said, my mind of my business. So they dropped the charges against him? He beat him after a while.

He pulled the case for like two years. And plus, he signed up for the military in the process. So the military helped him with attorney and things like that. So the military still accepted him even while he was pending charges for assault? Well, they didn't accept him, but it penned in the outcome of the case he was ready to go, and which he did. Why did he decide he wanted to go to the military? I don't think he was too much thought into it. I think somebody probably approached him.

I never asked him that question, I said, but I would assume somebody approached him. He didn't have much going on in the streets. He probably said, why not? Let's go. Do you wish he went down that path of him? Definitely. It definitely helped us later in life as far as, like, VA loans for mortgages and stuff like that. The only thing was is that I guess you guys weren't old enough yet at the time to even join, right? Could you join at 16?

No, but, you know, once you get your GD college degree, 17 and 18, so yeah. Yeah, but you had gotten into that, you caught that case before, so there wasn't even a... Yeah, so at the time when I initially caught the case, he was stressed. My bailed wasn't even that much. It was like $40,000, which with bond is probably... A normal person could probably bail out. So he was probably getting a little worse trying to come up with that money. I mean, we didn't have much people in our corner.

What did your mom say when you guys both got arrested for this case? Were you guys in contact? Yeah, my family dynamic is not like the typical, you know, loving home. So it wasn't really, I don't think nobody was surprised, to be honest. I think they were all right. Did you have any type of support system battling those charges, getting faced with that? Most of the support system came from my friends who were too young to really visit me too much anyway. So, yeah, I pretty much did the bit alone.

Now, because you and your brother are twins, were you guys, that was one able to get into trouble and the other one could, like, cover for them, like, just in time. Because, you know, being literally identical. It helped later on with parole as far as, like, curfew and stuff. Maybe he could cover for me if I want to go out type of situation. Yeah, because is there, like, physical differences that people can't see about you? Yeah, people that know us, they could tell us apart. But if you don't know us and at a glimpse, you ain't going to be able to tell the difference.

Yeah, you really can't. Yeah. That's so interesting. I guess I caught two impersonation charges under his name at one point. And it almost messed up his career. Wow. Yeah. So did he have to distance himself for you while he, when he finished his case and joined the military?

No, but at one point I caught a drug case and I had his ID in my pocket and I tried to explain to the officer that's not me. And he didn't believe me and he lost his security clearance in his job behind that. And it was a whole situation investigation. So I don't do that no more. I'll take that. And he got reinstated. Yeah, he had to stay longer in the military away because of the situation because he had to clear it. up.

Holy cow. By the time I was in jail, he was at work. So it's like, how could I be in two places at once? It's obviously not him. So the military thought that he was the one dealing the drugs? Yeah, it ended up on his rap sheet and he had to clear it out, yeah. Wow. That's crazy.

But DNA could have, you know. Well, fingerprints too. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, because he was finger, you both were fingerprinted. You were in prison. He was in the military. Yeah.

So when you, when you, they didn't give you bail, where do you stay at Rikers or at, like, a precinct? No, I still in Rikers, yeah. So they send you to Rikers. and is that a separate part of the jail than the people that are sentenced? Yeah, that's all people fighting that case, that whole building. And this is your 16? 16.

So you're back in like the youth kind of housing area? Yeah, I was 16, like 120 pounds and like 5-7. Was there anyone that you had remembered from when you were there a couple years prior? No. I didn't know nobody. It was all new people. Yeah. And that's when I know later on I was going to jail too much because I walked through intake

and I'll see somebody I know. But that first time, I ain't know nobody. How do the guards treat kids at Rikers? I don't want a bad talk called guards, but Rikers, man, guards act like inmates, believe it or not. And they, you know, their job, they don't want to do paperwork. So they don't mind letting the gang or somebody control the housing area to make their job easier.

It's definitely corrupt, not all, but some. Would you say it's just the male guards, or is it a mixture of male and woman? I don't know. I feel bad saying it, but women. In my experience, are probably worse than the male guards because they're emotional. And, you know, they favor inmates. They let certain things slide.

And if you've got enemies, you pretty much on your own. You can't count on a guard to help you. So your first day back at Rikers at 16, do you know how to navigate it better now that you were there for that, you know, week before? No, like I said, I was super green. So the first incident I got into, I didn't even make it to housing area. I got into it my first time going to court. and somebody tried to take my PIN number, which is to use the phone.

Because they get here when you're into, like, the intake house. They know if you're like a new jack. So he tried to give me the pen and paper to give him the number, and I threw it on the floor. I said, I didn't give me your shit. So he didn't do nothing, but he was talking crap. Oh, wait, you get to the housing area. We're going to see how tough you are and things like that.

But he didn't do nothing. So, like I said, being that I got through the first time, without getting into it, you know, when you're experiencing in prison, you know, if somebody even asks you something like that, you're supposed to pop off. But like I said, I just thought I could get by bluffing my way through. And like, if you go to court, it's like a 12-hour situation.

So it was 12 hours. We weren't talking to each other no more than that. I wasn't even worried about him. When we got off the bus back to Rikers, next thing I get sucker punched and I'm fighting like three dudes. And what were they? Like his boys or something like that? I guess, yeah, gangman. I don't even know because I didn't even see the punch coming.

I was sitting down and he hit me. My head hit the back of the wall. I jumped up and it's like two or three other people. What do you even do in a situation like that? How can you defend yourself? she's got a fight the CEO came he heard it and then they came I locked the gate they didn't give us a ticket nothing they just sent us back to the house that's when I knew it was no joke I'm like oh shit that's it for real yeah so did you start

to move differently after that yeah I was definitely on point every time I went to court but yeah I would say my my first bid my first three weeks was just getting jumped now talk about that you know experience going to court that's it's brutal and I can't even imagine from rikers which is an even more brutal place to be at Yeah, and I called my case in a different borough than the borough I was from, so I didn't never see nobody I knew. And it was probably a long day of travel. They woke you up early in the morning.

Yeah, and especially with the adolescents, you got to worry about, you got a nice sneakers, or whatever, you've got to be able to hold it down because they definitely look into raw people. Why do you think the young ones are more dangerous than the adults at Rikers? I think they just want to prove theirself, and they don't know how, so they think just being wild is the best way. And there's a lot of gang stuff, so. obviously I know the older era was a lot of stabbing cut in but at least you had a chance to prove yourself on your own my generation was more like you go in the house if you don't want to give up

your stuff and you're not in the gang you're going to fight half the house and go to another house and do it again did you have that same you know young kind of violent mentality at rikers not at first at first I was just trying to find some way I could relax that but it happened for a while And why do you think your mentality changed over time? Because a lot of times when you get jumped in there, like the person probably that initiator, you look at him and you're like under normal circumstances, he wouldn't be talking to me like that.

But because he got a gang behind him, it's a little, you know, it's tough. So eventually you just understand that. They only respect violence in there. So you've got to turn up a little bit if you want to live. How are you feeling mentally and emotionally being in there with not much support from the outside world? besides the fighting and stuff, it didn't really bother me. Like, later on, my last bid I only did, like, 45 days,

and that thing killed me because I actually had stuff in the streets to lose. Back then, it didn't really bother me much, to be honest. It was like, once I adjusted living in the projects, it was similar. So it was like, I didn't have much going on at home. I was still a kid pretty much, so I didn't really put too much thought into it. How long did it take you to go through the criminal justice system, the process before you actually got sentenced to the two years? I got sentenced pretty quick. It was only a couple months.

And you took a plea deal right away? Yeah, because two years didn't sound too bad considering what happened. Yeah, what was the final charge? It was like felony. They dropped it to assault in the second. Okay. What was the original charge? I think it was sold in the first. Okay. And what would that have carried as a sentence? I don't know. It was a lot, though. I was scared. I know when I first went in,

I thought I was going to do like 10 years. Okay. And on a two-year sentence, how much do you have to do on that? like 20 months because it's violent but I end up doing the whole too You lost all your good time? Yeah What were some, you know, examples of what was going on in there

that you lost your good time? Well, I didn't realize how corrupt Rikers was until I went upstate And you see this more like by the book So when you come from Rikers You bring that mentality to upstate And it's not the same type of guards

You're not getting away with stuff They're giving you tickets if you break the rules And I had to learn that the hallway So the first time I went to the box was for like assault on staff. Why do you assault the staff? I did, and that's the crazy part. They assaulted me, but I just didn't like let it.

I just didn't let them just do whatever they wanted. So I was pretty much defending myself for no reason to be honest. The guy, the CEO, I was working the mess with the CEO said something like, go over there. I was probably trying to steal like sugar or something. I don't know. But he was like, go over there. I was like, all right. And then when I was walking over there, the other CEO was like, hey kid, come here.

So when I turned to walk to him, the guy, they hit me from behind and said, didn't I tell you go over there? And then I turn around, we start tussling. Next, you know, it's like, I don't know how many guards they was on me. So the staff was assaulting you? Yeah.

And you're just a kid. Yeah, but they was, you know, a lot of them was like, some people, but at that moment, it was like older people, so they couldn't really do nothing with me, you know? So we just tussling, they were trying to take me down. I wasn't letting them. And then, you know, like I said,

I had that Rikers mentality, so when they bring me to the sergeant's office with the handcuffs and everything, I was talking shit. Like, yo, take these handcuffs off, and then the sergeant slapped me. With the handcuffs on, yeah, I was like, oh, shit. So I was still talking shit, but I noticed it was corrupt because the nurse seen everything. And then they put me in the room. She was like, oh, my God, are you okay?

I thought she cared. I'm like, yeah, I'm good. And then she just started checking the paper. Oh, good, no injuries reported. I'm like, what? You just seem... You know, I say that. I'm thinking, like, you just seem...

And then when they took the picture of me, they took it, like, from two rooms away. so they don't show no injuries. But I said, I was still talking crap, but when they bring me to the box, I noticed bigger dudes with gloves and stuff on, and I'm looking for a camera. I don't see no cameras, so I'm like, oh, shit, they're about to jump me.

And then when they strip search me, I said when they definitely did jump me, I'll tell you that. When you were actually, before you went into the cell. I was in the box, yeah, so they set you up. So the way they do it is they put your hands on the wall, but they put your leg so far away from the wall that you, like, slanted at an awkward angle. and they tell you like, with your right hand,

grab your left sock, and don't take your other hand off the wall. So I try to do it, and I grabbed a sock that one of them hit me in, like, the stomach, and then I took my hand off the wall, and then there just were a few of them start hitting me. And honestly, it didn't even hurt like that, but I ain't want to die, so I was like, ah, ah, ah, until they stop.

I ain't gonna lie, I didn't go out with them. I just took the out. How many guards were attacking you? It was probably like two or three. It wasn't much. This is all because they felt like you attacked their other guards. Yeah, because that's what they said when I walked in. Oh, we got one.

He likes to assault staff, even though I really didn't do it. So there's no other guards that are, like, decent human beings that are standing up for you? Well, the sergeant that took the hearing, he was pretty decent because he was, I called a lot of witnesses that happened in the mess hall. But he's like, I can't let you beat this because I think it's best if you just get out to jail. And he gave me just enough time to get me moved to another jail. Where'd they move you to after that? I went to Green S-block, which is a. That's $200.

And what does that mean? It's a double bunk box. So basically they got 200 cells with double bunk inmates. And I went there for, it was only supposed to be like 90 days, but I ended up doing longer than that. Because you called another charge in there? Yeah, I felt like they set me up because of the cell and staff. The first thing, they're supposed to match you up evenly with, like,

somebody probably you could get compatible with it. And the first dude they put me in with some big black dude. I think they wanted him to beat me up. But he ended up being cool because when I came in a cell and I was talking to him, I was a little, you know, on point. But then when I found out he was blood, I felt a little at ease because, you know, blood in New York State is ruthless. They'll cut you, stab you, but at least you know

they ain't going to try to rape you or nothing like that. So I was like, all right, I could deal with this. And we ended up being cool, so I think they was mad because he was knowing. He was telling me he was being up his monkeys. So he ain't tried with me, though, he's cool. How old was he compared to you? He was a grown man.

So he put a 16-year-old in the cell with a... Yeah, a grown man. Once you go upstate and you get that dinnum, but you're with the adults. The first day I went to was, Kind of adolescent, it was Washington. It was mixed with grown men, but after that, yeah. That's crazy. Yeah.

So they moved, once you got sentenced, they moved you from Rikers to that jail. No, I went to reception jail first, downstate. And then I went to what they consider adolescent jail, which was Washington. And then you got kicked out of there. Yeah, for the son of staff. And now you're with the big boys. Yeah, well, Washington had adults in there, too. But, you know, the adults don't want to go to them adolescent jail.

They don't want to go to Green, Washington. They rather just go. call him the coffee drinkers. Why the coffee drinkers? That's what he used to call him OT. We used to call him that too, old-timers. So did you get respect by the other inmates because you allegedly beat up, you know, the guards?

It did kind of work in my favor there. I was seeing people like coming through the cages. Yo, why you did that? It did help in the way, yeah. How did, you know, having those accusations against you affect you throughout the rest of your sentence with other guards? Yeah, that's why when I went to the S block, I tell you, they put me with that guy hoping I get beat up and I didn't

so I think they were mad One day I got a piece of mail It was pictures from a friend But he was throwing up gang signs in the picture So as soon as I got the letter They searched myself and found a picture And charged me with gang related material And I try to explain them

You just gave me the piece of mail So I felt set up, yeah Holy cow So did they continuously like read yourself? Yeah I got more box time for that And then I got more box time again Because I got into one of my bunkeys So when you're in the box

In New York State prisons as a teenager Do they let you out for more time or you treat it equally as a little? Everything is in your cell. The bathroom, your shower, and you go in the little cages in your back door, which they call the rec pin. And how often do you get to use that? The rec pin, I think, you go every day, like an hour

or something like that. The shower, I think is like three times a week. And how are you doing, like, mentally at that age? What were, like, the mental effects of that? It was still new to me, so I was just taking the day by day. I didn't really think too far into. I was thinking about what jail I'm going to next. Were you feeling, like, tougher? like, you know, like this is what you wanted,

like you were gaining street credit at all? No, I felt like I knew how to bid at that point because I already knew like, I already knew how to make a razor. So everywhere I went, that's the first thing I'll do. I'll make a razor until I could get an actual, like, sink. But I used to pop the shaving razors and I'll cut out a potato chip bag, the shiny part on the inside, and I'll put that where the razor was.

So it looks like the razor is still in there, and I'll put like hair and stuff on it and give it back to the officer. So I knew everywhere I go. The first thing I'm going to do is get a razor. So I was going to too worried. And why did you need a razor? Because I was, I was sure. Like I said, Rikers was wild.

I said, Rikers was wild as Rikers was, to be honest. I was just in case. So where do you go to next after that? After that, they sent me to Eastern Correctional Facility, which is like a max B, but it's like an honor jail. But I only got to stay there for a couple weeks. I was hoping to stay there because it was laid back. Why did they move you to that one?

Because the only reason they put me there Because there was a riot in the jail And they had to make space for other people To take up the box space And I was about to get out the box Okay Yeah, so they wasn't gonna keep me there anyway They sent me to dissing the prairie jail

And what was this new facility like for you? Easton Easton was laid back By the same, I didn't stay long They ended up sending me to Clinton And Clinton has a terrible rep Yeah, Clinton is a bad jail And how old are you now

When you're going to Clinton? 17 yet? I was probably, yeah I think it was like 17 I was close to the end of my I went there with only a couple months left. Wow. So that's the one I took it serious.

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I'm about to go home. And how did the inmates there treat you? And are you mixed in with the adults there too? Yeah, I was like one of the youngest kids in the jail. That's crazy that they put a 17-year-old in there. Yeah. Holy cow. I was there.

And who approaches you first when you get there? What was like the interactions with your cellmate? Well, the first bunky I had was some old-school Puerto Rican dude. and people kept telling me, you watch your monkey. I'm like, watch my monkey. So then I asked somebody I was cool with like, yo, why people keep saying watch my monkey?

And they were like, yo, he liked boys. I was like, oh, he liked boys. I was like, don't worry about it, though. When we've seen you in the cellway and we already spoke to him, he's not going to try nothing. So what's that? They say he likes boys, so you go in there, what happens? Well, I was, the thing that messed my head up was

at one point he was sharpening the sink, and I was watching out for the guards for him. And I was thinking my head like, damn, he could have tried to use that shit on me if I wasn't on point. Because he was a cool dude. I ain't think none of it. How do you even sleep peacefully when you see an inmate that's your bunkmate with a shank and with a reputation like that? Yeah, I asked him about eventually, though. I told him, like, oh, somebody was like, no, I wouldn't try no shit like that with you.

They hate this or whatever. He said by. At that point, I already knew. I was, like, the older dudes used to try to school me, yo, young in, you shouldn't be chilling with this and that. But I used to be like, I chill with the young wild dudes. At least I ain't got worried about these dudes with 20 years in on some gay stuff, you know. Were guys trying to jam you up because you were on short time? Nah, I wasn't telling people unless they was my friend.

And plus, I already lost my good time at that point. So I was like, if anything go down, I'm going to just go to the box or whatever. Oh, yeah, guys couldn't really jam you up to take away more time. Yeah, so I was like, fuck it. If it go down, we do it whatever. I'm going to box. Fuck it. What would you do for money because you didn't have outside support?

Draw. I'll draw like people's envelopes and stuff. Ah, and you would sell that? Yeah. So you had an artistic sense to you? Yeah, you know, we grew up doing graffiti, stuff like that, so we knew how to draw a little bit. I wasn't know Picasso or nothing, but, yeah. So that kind of carried over into the jewelry business you would later start?

Yeah, I guess you could say that. I never thought of it like that, yeah. Interesting. And did you maintain any contact with your brother during this prison sentence? Well, he was in the art. me so we speak occasionally through letters and stuff for people let us know but yeah at some points I spoke to him on the phone like one time I had an incident where it was about to go down and I called him I really didn't want to

like go out but I told him the situation and he was like fuck that you guys so he kind of hyped me up in that one and he gave you advice to handle it yeah he said you got to do what you got to do so I just I just thought about him when I did it I said fuck it do you think he missed street life at all when he was talking to you, he was glad he was out of that? I don't think we were bad kids. I think we were just dealt. I would say we weren't bad kids. We were just really good at adapting.

So if you put us in a mess up environment, we're going to adapt to it eventually. What would you say is the number one thing you wish you could change about your childhood? I don't know, because I don't think everything happens for a reason. None of that was our fault, except obviously to commit crimes and stuff was our fault. But the circumstance wasn't our fault,

But we probably wouldn't be entrepreneurs right now if it wasn't for that struggle. Yeah. So you get out at 17 now. No, I got out in 19. At 19 years old? Yeah. Oh, so you went in at 16 and then it carried all the way to 19.

Yeah. So now you're 19, you get out of that last prison. What happens? What do you do? Well, when I came out, I started staying with my brother, but I still had stinking thinking. So I was looking for a job, you know, the typical victim mindset where it's like,

I can't get a job because my record, you start believing it. I started selling drugs because I couldn't get a job. And then I eventually got a job, but at that point, I was already making money selling drugs. I was just doing both. Why did he let you stay with him, knowing that you were into still criminal activity? Because we didn't think of it like that.

That was just regular for us. You know, he was still, he was young in the military. I don't know, to be honest. You had to ask him. Did you know that you would get into potentially more trouble now that you were a felon and selling drugs or you didn't care? I didn't even think about it. I didn't care. I just wanted money. That's all I thought about money.

And did you start making some good money now selling drugs? Well, by my standard now, I wouldn't say good money. But back then, yeah, I felt like I was doing something. What were you selling and how much do you think you were making? I was selling, I started with weed because I felt like it wasn't that bad of a charge, but then escalated to crack. I was selling mostly crack. And was it easy to obtain crack at that age? Yeah.

We used to obtain it since 14. Yeah, so it was easy. And it was a quick flip. You get it, you can move at a minimum, at least an able a day. I would try to usually make like a thousand for the day. A thousand bucks for yourself? Yeah, not all profit, but that was my quota pretty much to myself. And you were just doing it on your own?

Yeah, well, eventually I got workers later on and stuff, yeah. Okay. And do you ever think now, like if you have an entrepreneurial sense, If you applied that to something, you know, when you were younger, some type of entrepreneurial legal business, you would have been better off? Well, we tried because when we were younger, like I said, we said, packed bags in the supermarket, several snow. And at one point, we even started a little vending machine route.

So we always had the entrepreneur spirit. It's just, I was just looking at whatever's lucrative and easily accessible. Yeah, you want to kind of like the easy way out. Yeah, because I figured if I would make good money with that, I would invest in it's not illegal anyway. When you got out and you were 19 where you had any relationship with your mom, again or were you just kind of doing your own thing? It was doing my own thing.

Yeah. Do you wish you had a relationship with her when you got out? Well, we actually take care of her right now. Okay. Yeah, because she's elderly and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. I was mad at her. I felt like she didn't love us when we were younger, but as I got old and I realized,

she wasn't fit to, you know, pretty much take care of herself, how we'd be expected to take care of us. It was not her fault. So now you're 19 and you're selling drugs? How long does that go on for before you get busted again? I was probably home only nine months, if that. That's it. You didn't have much of a run. I got cold marked money. With what?

Marked money. What does that mean? Basically, somebody buy drugs from you and they got a picture of the serial number. If they catch you with that money with the serial number, you get charged for the sale. So how long after you did that transaction did they get you? Like an hour later. I made the sale. I went upstairs.

I came back out, and next you know, some big dude. I noticed something was funny. When he turned the corner, he looked big. and he was looking at me, so I'm thinking in my head, like, what are you trying to take my jewelry or something? And then he turned and picked up the payphone. Nobody was using pay phones. So I went to walk past him.

He just turned around and grabbed me, but I thought he was trying to rob me, so I went to swing at him. And it was like a bunch of cars, and they swore me. And I see, I'm in the handcuffs again. And they haul you to the precinct? Yeah, I went to jail. I had a parole hold, so I had to stay and deal with that case.

Oh, because you were on parole. Yeah, so I ended up getting a year for that. And then I would have had it with not. another year for parole violation, but they gave me an alternative, which was like a boot camp, 97 days. So I did the boot camp. A lot of people was turning it down. They didn't want to do it because they was already institutionalized.

So they'd rather go to jail. I'm not letting the white scream at me. But my brother was in the military. I'm like, if he could do it, I'll do this shit. So you had to do a year at Rikers. Okay. And then I had to go off state again and do the boot camp. Wow.

So you're back at Rikers then at 20 years old now? Yeah. Was that experience different than what? when you were there younger? Yeah, it felt easy compared to the first one. I was already, like I said, I knew how to jail at that point. So I was telling, it wasn't like heavy extorts. See, when you're in the adolescent, as soon as you walk in the house,

immediately they're on you. They're trying to extort you. You don't have no time. The adults, they're not going to really extort you unless you're, like, super weak. It's just mainly fight over the phone. Are guys respecting you more now that, at that time, now that you're there on a second bid? Yeah, because, yeah.

Like I said, they go by how you move, so they could tell who's who and what's what. You know, so if I come in a house, usually I'll just put my stuff down and come right out of the cell. It's kind of like you sublimity showing them, like, I'm ready to go, I ain't getting comfortable. So if we could, let's get out the way now.

Was your mindset different that last year at Rikers? No, it was terrible still. Yeah, I was still stinking, thinking back then. Why do you think that was? Because I didn't, that's all I, I knew. Did you have dreams or aspirations of what you were going to do after that year? Were you making a plan?

Were you getting back on the streets? Or did you want something better? I hear people like Jim Carrey in manifestation, and I notice now that I'm older, like I always manifested stuff. Like, you know, you daydream in jail. You aspire to do stuff. So I think I always have aspirations. I just never had opportunity.

What would you say is like your biggest aspiration at that time while you're sitting in the jail cell, like thinking about life and, and, and, whatnot. I used to think when I got tired of selling drugs, I used to think like, you know, even when I was selling drugs, I used to think if I had the right opportunity, I wouldn't be doing this. I never felt like I wanted to do that. I just never wanted to have, I never had the opportunity.

I never felt like a regular person. I always felt like I was meant for more. So I didn't want to settle for just a nine to five situation, even though I did plenty points in my life. I always looked at as a stepping stone. Were you getting into more altercations at Rikers at last year? No, it was every I think every jail

I've been to every house I get into at least one altercation But it wasn't overbearing I've been I had quite a few incidents yeah What was like the The craziest one you've been involved in The crazy I haven't been in like no knife fights

And nothing like these dudes But I have plenty of fights I broke my hand one time On a guy and then he tried to get me back While I had the broken hand You hit him that hard that you broke your hand? Yeah.

And what happens when you got like a broken hand in prison? Do they put a cast on it? Yeah, well, you can't rotate

if you got into a fight. I had to act like I had a slip and fall. Yeah, because the guy was trying me and then he said, you know, he's the older dude,

you'll go in the corner I'm gonna beat you up or something like that when he turned like this and turn back, I just hit him. And then he went down. I didn't even expect it.

I was like, oh shit. And then the CEO came out. I was like, yo, I think he's seen it. He was like, yeah, he's good. I went to the visit. My brother, my hand was broke.

And he was like, yeah. So when I went back to the house, I faked it for where I went and got a cast. And I seen him like a week later. And he was trying to move on me in the hallway while I had the cast. But I had a friend with me that didn't let it go down like that. Why would you even try you to begin with? Did you do something or were you moving? I was young, man.

I was young. I'm with the adults now. And, you know, he was mad because it was always sound stupid. I was working the mess hall. I wasn't showing up to work. I was getting paid to be there, but I'll come there, and he was like, you're never here, and you think you're going to come here and do what you want.

I'm telling him, bro, you're just a CEO or something? He was like, who you think you're talking to, you know? And he's, I'm going to beat you up, whatever he said. I wasn't, I'm not going in the corner. I'm not, I hit him by surprise, honestly. It was a sucker punch, but he knew what was coming. He just thought he was going to, like, do, like, a boxing match in the corner or something. So you get out and then you go to boot camp

Do they transport you to boot camp Or do you have to self-surrender after that year? No, right from right Because they ship you on the bus The same process Go to intake and then you got to wait to get shipped there And are you handcuffed and all that during the same process The only difference is the jail you go to is boot camp

Shave your head Sir, yes sir run two miles a day all that And are there gangs there or is it What does that like? Yeah there's gangs everywhere But that pro see they got two Two boot camp programs one is for first-time offenders pretty much, non-violent, and they're six months.

The one I went to was more for bro-violated, so it's more career criminals than the one I was in, but a short of time. And what was a typical day like? You wake up in five in the morning screaming, uh, sir, yes, sir, and then you run two miles, you work out, you eat child, it's definitely tough. Were there a lot of guys that couldn't handle that and had to drop out? Yeah, dudes in the first week was like, I'm going to send me to jail. I ain't doing this shit.

And then they would get more time by going to jail? Yeah. So it was less time if you went to boot camp. It was 97 days boot camp or a year. So I'm taking that 97 and come home. What was the sleeping arrangements like at boot camp? Bunk beds. Okay.

And when the thing, the revelies, I think they call it, goes off in the morning like the horn. You've got to jump out of your bed screaming. Oh. That is funny. Yeah, it's definitely funny. A lot of funny stuff was going on in there. So was there any issues that you were? had at boot camp or did you complete it successfully and make it through?

I completed successfully. See, the key with boot camp is you try to blend in. If you try to stand out, you're going to make yourself a target. You're going to have a rough. But, you know, it's set up. You're going to go through stuff. It's stupid stuff. Do you think boot camp helped change your, you know, your vision and aspect about life and thoughts about life? Or did you still have that same kind of negative mentality? Yeah, it didn't really help much. I was just proud that while I was there, I was thinking about my brother went through. So I'm like, this is what he was doing in the military. So it kind of had me a little more respect for what he went through.

Can you get visits while at boot camp? Yeah, but you really don't want to. Because you got to sit at like modified parade rest. Your head is bald. Yeah, uniform is creased. So it was extremely strict and structured. Yeah. Were guys getting drugs in or doing anything like contraband?

No. It's airtight. Yeah. It was like a P to pay for poor situation. So if you do something wrong, we all got to deal with it. Was there women there or just men? There was women, but you can't get caught looking at them. And they were in, like, separate dorm areas?

No, they'd be on the blacktop with us. And even when they seen cadence, they'll say, eyeballs will get your program taken. So basically, if you look at us, you're out of here. Oh, so they have the women actually living there, too, with you guys? Yeah, yeah. Were they in separate dorms? Yeah, separate dorms, yeah.

But you guys had access to it. We just walked past them, but you're not allowed to look at them. Wow. Yeah. How many guys are getting jammed up for looking at the woman? Well, you're going to get jammed up every day. If you don't make your bed right, you're in trouble. Like, for example, if you don't eat your food, you've got 10 minutes to eat your food.

If you don't finish it, you're probably going to have to wear it or something like that. Like, put the mashed potatoes in your pocket of some all day. Like, they do stuff like that, yeah. Did you have more freedom at the boot camp rather than in jail? No. You felt it was stricter. Definitely stricter. You can't sit on your bed throughout the day, nothing.

What kind of charges were individuals that were at the boot camp facing or a half? That one was all parole violators. Yeah. That's interesting that. It's an interesting concept that if you violate parole, you can choose to go to boot camp. Yeah. It was definitely an experience.

What about guys that were, like, out of shape or anything like that? How did they survive going to do that? They tried to be slick and go to medical dorm, but it didn't work out sometimes. Sometimes if it'd do, like, the running was hard for a lot of people, so sometimes they'll be throwing up and stuff, and they'll make them hug a tree in the freezing weather until we finish type stuff.

Yeah, seriously. Huck a tree, like, and we run past them, and they probably wish they was running with us because at least they'll be warm. And they're, like, clothesless? No, you've got uniforms and stuff. And they're just forced to hug a tree in the winter. Yeah.

How long would they be out on the tree for? Two hours, three. As long as, however long did the drill sergeant wanted to. And if they remove themselves for the tree, what happens? We all probably get in trouble for him. Wow. So it's extremely strict. Yeah, so basically they know if we get in trouble for him,

somebody might try to deal with them later, so. So what was your mindset leaving boot camp, and what was your plan after boot camp? I was just excited to get out, and I was trying to get, at that point, I was trying to get my life together. I started college and stuff like that. Oh, you did start college?

Yeah, but I was still selling drugs. Why did you decide to start college? What was that, the ultimate reason behind that? Well, I went for business, so I wanted to open a business. And did you have a business in mind at the time? No. You just knew you want to get into business. Yeah.

But yet you're back to drugs. Yeah. I was going to sell drugs to save money that's all the business. So why despite... I just realized I have exactly zero moving supplies. First big move? Yep. Been there.

Rented a truck, scrounged up boxes, bribed people with pizza. Still lost a chair, strained my back and my friendships. So I should hire a pro because I don't know what I'm doing. That's why I used Mayflower. Walked me through everything. Had a move coordinator? Real movers. That sounds very adult.

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On Roe, you can access GLP1 options, including the first FDA-approved GLP1 pill for weight loss. Go to row.com slash journey to see if you qualify. 14 to 20% average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 2.2% to 3.1% in placebo-R. RX only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to row.co slash safety. You know, all the trouble you gotten before you went back to drugs. Because I felt like, I felt like I could be slicker with it and smarter. I thought I could still get over and get away with it.

But it didn't work out. I called more cases, couldn't even finish college. I went back to jail again. You got busted again for the drugs. And how much time do you get this time for that? That time I finished my parole. Like, I had to finish up the parole like seven months, and then I was able to bail out.

And then I ended up being in one case, and I got a program for the other one. And at that point, that's when I really changed my life. Do you feel like the system wasn't strict enough on you, you know, the first couple times that you kept getting back into it? Like imagine that first case you got like five years. Do you think it would have been different for you? No.

I think I was just hard-headed. I don't think it would have changed nothing, to be honest. I think jail makes people worse sometimes. So why was it that last time that made you change your mindset and go in a different direction? Because I asked for a reason to be, I knew I was better than that. I knew, like, something got to give, man. I wanted to make money.

I knew I was reading more books as far as financial literacy and things like that. I was trying to crack the code at that point. Was your brother trying to help you at all, kind of put you on the right path? Yeah, he'll try to help me. He'd be at boot camp sending me money, and I'll just be buying drugs with it. At boot camp? Yeah, like, not boot camp.

At that point, he was actually in the military working. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, you mean he was in the military sending you money on the street? Yeah, like if I get out of jail, I'd send me some brad makes home all right. And you were just buying more drugs. Yeah, because, you know, you don't want to take that from the way. You want to make your own money.

Where were you living at that time? The second time I went to jail, I was living in Harlem. Yeah, but. And you were able to have. forward your own place and everything like that. My brother helped me at first, yeah. Oh, so he was super supportive throughout everything. Yeah, we twins.

If I got a thousand and he got a dollar, we both got $500. Do you believe in like that twin telepathy or anything like that that you guys can kind of read each other's minds? Not read each other's minds, but if he gave me a certain look, I know what he's thinking in certain situations, yeah. Do you guys, like, have a sense of feeling? Like, say he was all the way wherever for training and in the military, do you feel like he's with you?

No, but I am grateful that we both didn't stay in jail together because I feel like if I get jumped, I could take an hour, but if he would have got jumped, I probably would have caught him new charge. So I think it was meant for us not to be there at the same time. Do you feel like you're the protector out of the two of you? No, I think it's equal. I think we just hold each other down. Okay.

So that last time you get out of jail and tell us about that transformation, you know, why your mindset changed and what you started to get into. that made it different? I think the craziest thing I've seen this guy about to get out of jail after like 14 years and he tried to commit suicide. So when they brought him back to that house,

I'm like, yo, why would you do that? You were about to go home? And he said some dumb stuff like, oh, I'm trying to get SSI. I don't got no family. So I was like, yeah, I'm not trying to have my... That was like my mind. Like, yeah, I can't be like that.

That's crazy. He was making all this money in the street. Now you want SSI. So when I came home, my brother helped me out get a job with a moving company. And the guys that were running the move company make a lot of money. So I was thinking, like, I thought they were lying because they were cool. They were nice cars.

I was like, they got to be doing something on the side. And then my first day working, my legs were tired. I was like, I can't do this shit. But then when I made like 500 for the day, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to definitely come back tomorrow. And then eventually we worked our way up and we started our own moving company. You and your brother? Yeah.

Oh, wow. And did the moving company care about your record at all? No, they just want you to work hard. Do you find that most jobs in New York don't necessarily care about the record and more or less just want you to work hard? They're looking for hardworking people. Well, I can't really speak on that because I haven't had too much corporate jobs or anything like that. So after the moving company, we did it for a few years.

We made some good money, but we ended up shutting down and buying some property. but I already had a CDL. So truck driving, I think, is a great career path for any felon because, you know, you work on your own. You only have a boss breathing down your neck and you're going to make good money. So I guess I'll reframe it as like there's ways if you're a hard worker to find work. Like there's ways to not just be, you know, like broke on your butt. I think as a felon, you should figure out how you could become valuable.

And if you have a skill of trade, you offer value to an employer and you can negotiate a better way. or more fair treatment. Obviously, if you don't have skills, you're going to get the bottom of the barrel jobs. Did you see a lot of guys that you were in prison with or new growing up struggle with you, even after you kind of found your own footings and why? Well, I see people I grew up with still doing the wrong things

and they're making money, so it'd be tempting to, but I always remind myself, and I don't do that because, you know, the end result of that. Yeah, but when I first got a job, believe it or not, I was a little embarrassed. I felt like people thought, like, oh, look, he's going broke, he got to get a job now. That's how I felt.

So now I'm older, I try to take pride and working hard and let people know that it's cool to work hard. Yeah, why do you think that? Where do you think that mentality comes from? Being around lazy people that want the easy way out, you know, they feel like, oh, I ain't doing that. I'm going to get money. That's why I think it came from.

Do you still associate with people that were a part of the street life? I mean, I'm a jeweler, you know? We have a lot of shady customers here and there, you know. Well, aside from customers, I mean, like, do you keep people around you in your circle or do you avoid that? Well, that's part of the reason. When we had the moving company, we were hiring the whole neighborhood. Anybody didn't want to work, so definitely now with this business venture,

I'm a little more reserved and selective of who I let in to that extent. Did you run into any issues in New York trying to build a company as a felon? No, not really. And even, like, opening the jewelry business? Now, the jewelry business is tough because most jewelers are second generation or they come from money, and we didn't start with money or any connection. So it was a little tough just to make connections and get fair prices. So how do you even get into that?

How do you move from moving to jewelry? Well, it was really my brother's idea, and I was just trying to figure out how I could add value to it. He was taking a bunch of jewelry classes, and it started as a hobby during COVID, and then it ended up turning to business. And where do you even go? to start the jewelry business. How do you, like, you know, build the inventory? How do you get the idea for it?

Get the location, everything like that. Yeah, well, most jewelers in the industry are, like, glorified middlemen. Most jewelers can't even make a piece of jewelry. So my brother was taking all the classes to actually learn, but it's really hard to find good classes and really expensive. So maybe one day we aspire to make an affordable more option for people to learn how to get into the industry. Because it's like, I'm sure you know, nobody tells you no secrets about the industry.

If they tell you the secrets, they feel threatened by you. Because it's all for nests. It's a game where, like I said, a lot of them are middleman. A lot of them can't make a piece. We never expected to have a storefront or anything like that. We were just going to do only custom from the home office. And then it just ended up being too much meeting people on the street with three or four chains so they could pick one.

So we figured it's probably in our best interest to get an actual location where people could come in. How do you guys stay grounded or specifically you? How do you stay grounded throughout? Like there could be challenging. days, you know, the economy, everything like that, does it ever, you know, make you want to get back into the drug game? And if not, how do you, I mean, and if so, how do you avoid getting into that? Well, it's definitely tempting sometimes, but being that we had the moving company and we got rid of it, I always tell myself, if I would have kept that, I probably would have achieved

my goals by now. But because I couldn't take the heat at the time, I just let it go. And I I don't want to make that same mistake twice. So I pushed through the tough days. What advice would you give to, you know, teenagers growing up in neighborhoods that are, you know, there's a lot of crime, there's a lot of drugs, and they're kind of exposed to that street life? What advice would you give to those younger people? Just believe, don't believe everything you see. Especially now with the social media, everything is smoking mirrors. So, you know, everybody always, you only see the overnight success. You don't see what people went through to get there.

And you just don't look for the quick way. What comes quick, leaves quick. Do you think social media condones and kind of like influences people to sell drugs and get involved in that lifestyle? No, I think social media is made to help you consume whatever you're interested in. So whatever you look for, they're going to show you more of that. So I said, if you believe, if you look for negative stuff, that's what you're going to find. Because I use social media now in a positive way. I try to watch enlightening the videos and things like that about finance, real estate.

So it's what you look for. They're going to show you more of. So if you're interested in rapping and stuff like, they're going to show you more of that. So out of all the time you spent in prison, how much time do you actually think you did altogether? And do you ever reflect back on like you missed some kind of prime younger years of your life? Like you didn't get the high school experience?

You didn't get the college experience? Yeah, I think I probably did maybe, I don't know, seven years or something around there. And it was in my late teens, early 20, so I definitely missed down on some important years. And I just try to live, like, through my nephew and my kids and try to show them, like, that's what you should be doing. Because if I would have a role model that helped me stay positive, I would have did a lot better in life. But I don't have nobody. I had to learn everything in my own.

So you have kids now? Yeah, I got too. How do you make sure that they don't follow the same path you did? Well, I feel like in the most lower-income households, they try to push you out the door to get a job quick and help pay bills. And I feel like if you want to go to school, if it takes you. you longer to figure out something in life. I'm not going to kick you out to your 30s, you know. If you need me to support you while you go through college financially, I'm going to do that. And I'm going to try to advise you with what I know. And hopefully everything my brother and I

is building right now, they could take to the next level and the next generation. Do you talk to your kids about your past and, you know, talking about prison openly? Or are you kind of embarrassed by that? How do you have those conversations? My kids are young, so I really haven't had that conversation with them. My nephew knows he's a teenagers so he knows more. I try to tell him, you know, don't be a follower, be a leader. Will you have that conversation with your kids? If I have to address it, yeah, I'll dress it with them. I'll tell them, you know, I can't change what happened. It made me a better person as I learned in life, but they don't have no reason

to even do that type of stuff I did other than acceptance, which I hope they wouldn't have to seek. Now, what do you think the next, you know, what five years looks like? Do you have goals, do you have dreams? Where do you want to go to from here? Well, right now, our slogan is Blanche Golden Diamond's Brooklyn Best Jewel. So after we officially considered by many Brooklyn's best, we're trying to be New York's best and then grow from there. And like I said, we want to offer, we're going to do a podcast based on, we're going to highlight the jewelry people wear what it means to them and mainly how they're able to afford something like that, any advice they could give to people in that industry and things like that. So we're going to do the podcast. We got our jewelry store.

and eventually we want to open a training program to help others get in the industry. And the ultimate goal is always real estate. So just keep buying property. Awesome. Well, Nick, thank you for coming out here today and sharing your story with us. And, you know, I wish you the best with the business and everything you do in the future. Appreciate it, man. Thank you for having me.