Locked In with Ian Bick - How The Mob Treats Cops In Prison & On The Street | Chicky Cechetelli & Jeff Asher

Episode Date: October 22, 2023

You asked, we answered. We are bringing back two electric guests from previous shows to satisfy listeners' curiosities. Listen to our Q&A from both sides of the law! Former mobster Chicky Cecchetelli (guest on July 9 epsiode) and former police officer Jeff Asher (guest on July 30 episode) don't hold back as they let the listeners know what really goes on in the criminal justice system. Episode with Chicky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8td4v6A20O8&t=1647s Episode with Jeff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STfm-4g5ns0&t=114s Connect with Jeff Asher: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jeffyjewjagoff?mibextid=LQQJ4d Instagram: https://instagram.com/jeffeyjewjagoff?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeffreyasher1028?_t=8ePModjnHCQ&_r=1 Connect with Chicky Cecchetelli: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCaLyJbQ9V45SNzzFwjtvhQQ Instagram: https://instagram.com/chicky__cecchetelli?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Buy Merch: https://lockedinbrand.com Use code lockedin at checkout to get 10% off your order Connect with Ian Bick: https://www.ianbick.com 00:00 Intro 01:00 NY Comedy Club 01:50 Shoutout to FWRD 04:43 Jeff Asher knowing Chicky 06:00 Chicky was actually in the mob 10:05 Takeaways from their stories 11:55 Joey Merlino 13:35 YouTubers going after Chicky 16:09 Jeff’s relationship with law enforcement 20:15 Did the comments give Jeff a different perspective? 25:20 How the mob treats cops on the streets 28:13 How police officers treat mobsters 31:10 Audience questions 32:00 The government giving a free pass to mobsters 34:00 Worst crime scene as a cop 36:50 The Mob’s Policy 39:02 Why is it hard to speak against bad cops 43:00 Female cop in the news 46:45 Jeff’s story being a hot topic 50:00 Larry Lawton Cookbook. Produced by: https://www.instagram.com/shanedanahy https://www.shanedanahy.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting of cheese, or just grabbing one more spoonful of yogurt. Keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk by real California farm family. He had a restaurant caught Karamia in Springfield. I used to go there on certain nights of the week, and then he had the Irish crew go there certain nights at a week.

And we were close. I used to go to his house and eat dinner. Jeff and his partner, any cop partner, would go to Karamia, and they would go in the back door, up to the back steps, and Josie was a sweetheart, you know, an older lady, a sweetheart of her lady. She was the cook, and they would show up, and he would give them food to go,

and he would put wine in little plastic cups so they could have it in their patrol car. Bruno was friendly with everybody. He was friends with the criminals, and he was friends with the cops and the district attorneys, which at the end really kind of got him in a lot of trouble. But he was friends with Maddie Ryan,

who was a DA in Springfield. They loved Bruno. Bruno was smart. On today's episode, we have Chicky Chick-Chicottelli and Jeff Asher back on the show to answer some of your questions and check in to see their thoughts after their interviews both went viral on the Lockton with Ian Bick podcast.

Exciting news, everyone. I will be at the New York Comedy Club in East Village on November 5th, alongside comedian and podcaster Johnny Mitchell for his live show. Grab tickets at Ian Bick.com, and I'm so excited to see you there for my first live show. I want to take a second and thank you to all who support this podcast. We were just named Number 50 on Spotify for society and culture, and we are in the top 200 out of 5 million podcasts on Spotify, all because of you, the listeners, the viewers,

the support means the absolute world. Remember by hitting the subscribe button on YouTube or giving us a follow and a review on whichever site you listen and watch this podcast, it helps us tremendously and helps us boost this show to a bigger audience. I need to take a second and give a huge shout out to the team at Forward, who recently came on board to redo my website by Ian Bick.com and give it a more professional look.

I was shocked by how fast they are able to get the job done and how easy they are to work with. Ford is a digital and product agency empowering brands with 360 creative marketing and merchandise solutions. They are straightforward, flexible, and fully focused on delivering top-level results on everything from design, web, content support,

to end-to-end commerce infrastructure. Looking to unlock the next stage of your brand's journey, getting contact at hello at forward.com. Mr. Chicky, Jeff Asher, welcome to Lockton for part two. This is so exciting. First off, happy birthday. Thank you, brother. Thank you, brother.

I appreciate it. I think this is, is this like one of the first things on YouTube, a former mobster and a former cop sitting across another felon right here? Like what this is like? Back in the day? Yeah, man. Back in the day, this would have been frowned upon. Has this been done before on you?

too. We might do some numbers on us. We grew up together. It may have broken some rules of regs with the police department. A lot of rules. So I brought you guys back today because, you know, there's some follow-up questions at our audience. You know, you two were our top performing episodes ever, hundreds of

thousands of views and downloads on YouTube. It was so funny because Chicky was in the top spot aside from J.D. Delay. And then we did your episode, Asher, and Chicky stops calling me. He would call me every day. Every day he called me talking about, yo, the numbers, it's great.

And that as soon as you came in and blew it out, haven't heard from him since. He's doing all these shows. He's a big shot. But I got to tell you that, people in your comments, they got me good. I ate the mob. You served little waters. They said it was two liter bottles. They got me good, but it's all good, bro.

I picked out some of the best comments. Yeah, listen, I left. Listen to me. You go on the comments, I laugh. I laughed at every one of them. They're funny. They thought I was the guy on some cartoon show. They thought I was Peter Griffin.

Listen, it's all about laughs. Listen, I get it. Absolutely. I love myself. I'm a little heavy. I appreciate who I am. So it is what it is. Listen, I laugh with them.

I salute. You know, let them have fun. You know, you guys both have very crazy high public stories. You know, Jeff's in the news. All those articles. Chicky was in the news. but you guys both send very positive messages. And I don't think our audience realized

that you guys actually know each other from back in the day. Jeff, let's start with you. You knew Chicky while you were a police officer? Yeah, I mean, Springfield's not a huge city. I mean, it's big. There's a quarter of a million people, but it's one of those, it feels smaller.

Everybody seems to know each other, whether you're a cop or a gangster, firefighter, Irish, Italian. Everybody knew each other in that town. So I didn't know Chicky great growing up, but he's a couple years older than me. But I knew them from around the way, you know. You'd hear stories and, you know, that type of stuff.

And my father worked downtown in the bars. So I knew chickies down there all the time. We went to the same clubs, pizzazz and Pogoes and some of the same nightclubs. He was always at the clubs. He loved the clubhouse music. Stevie B. What kind of stories would you hear of Chicky? You know, just I think the first time I really talked a lot about chickies when I'm dating a girl

in Springfield. And I end up running in him somewhere and we start talking and he says, hey, do you date Jen Downs? He said, yeah, yeah. He says, I dated her before you. I said, oh, okay. Okay, he's making fun of me.

But, you know, I knew who he was, but he was also in the military too. Chikki was in the Navy and I was in the Marine Corps and he's a veteran. So, you know, run into him a few times, talk to him about that.

But it wasn't close, but I knew who he was. So you could confirm for the audience that Chicky was actually mob associated because some people were a little skeptical on his involvement. Chicky hung out with all those guys. Believe me. Now, Chicky, when was the first time you met Jeff? And how did you guys mean? I knew Jeff. I knew Jeff, like I said, like he knew me through our whole adult life. I heard stories about him.

I heard he was a great cop. He was solid as they come. And he would defend his partner. If there was a problem with the partners, he would jump in. he would do what I had to do. That's what I always heard about him. So from afar, I'm not going to lie to you. Back then, I'm not going to lie to you.

I didn't respect cops. I didn't respect FBI agent. I respect state troopers. But I always heard about Jeff. Listen, one thing about Jeff, he was a solid cop. Like, in other words, if a cop was in trouble, he had him. So secretly, in the back of my mind, I had a respect for him. I'm like, yeah, he's like one of us, but he's defending his own, which I did respect

that. and it was funny because it came up, we dated the same girl, you know, and my first love, who broke my heart, I'm not going to lie, it was funny. A couple, three years later after I broke up, you know, I went in the Navy, and she couldn't, you know, be with somebody that,

I was stationed at Pearl Harbor, Honolulu, so there was a ton of girls in Honolulu, and she's like, I can't do this, I know you're dating girls. And back then, you know, unfortunately, I was a thinner guy. I was, you know, I was pretty good looking. Laughing now, but I was pretty good looking.

I'm a little heavy now, but I was good looking. And then there was a guy, you know, not really a friend, but kind of a semi-friend of mine that we were at a party. And when I came home in the Navy, she had a party for me to come back. And she was cooking in her kitchen, and I just happened to walk in the kitchen. and I seen this young kid talking to her.

And then later on that night, I said to her, I said, if there's anybody going to, of all my friends, if there's anybody going to try to pick you up when I'm gone, it's going to be him. And she's like, you're crazy. Meanwhile, fast forward six months later, 100% what I said was true. I called home and my sister says to me,

you know, your girl Jen hangs out here all the time. I go, yeah, she's a sweetheart of a girl. She goes, yeah, but she's dating somebody else. So, of course, I'm heartbroken, right? So I said, okay, it is what it is. You know, I'm done with her. 17, 18, we're young kids. So, you know, it was funny.

And then several years later, like three years later, she was dating Jeff. And I'm like, God bless him, whatever, whatever. And he'll tell you she had mentioned me to him because I used to wear the surgery to Chuccini sweatsuits. And she was a nice girl. She just, listen, I was a young guy. She was a young girl. It don't work out when you go in the military like he knows.

Same thing happened to him when he went to Marines. I got a dear John litter, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was dating this girl. I was going to community college, and I was dating this girl. And we got called up to go to Desert Storm. So you've got to go like six months down the Carolinas and train. You know, they're talking about the gas exposure and all the stuff you're going to be exposed to.

They're firing range. And while I'm there, they give us time off before Christmas. You're not supposed to fly home. course everybody flew home. We all threw up to Hartford and went home. And I catch her with another guy. Oh, man. So I leave the house. Obviously, I'm upset. I get back on the plane and fly down the next day they do mail call and I got the Dear John letter. So she'd already written the letter. I went home to surprise her and I ended up being the one surprised. Wow. You know, yeah. Isn't it crazy how life brings you down a strange path? I mean, do you guys ever thought 10, 15 years ago you'd be

sitting here right now. 100%. Like it's just the whole concept of sharing stories on YouTube and stuff. No, I love it. Now, you guys both have very powerful stories about, you know, your experiences in law enforcement and the mob and how you guys both, you know, ended in prison. And if anyone wants to hear you guys back stories, they could check out the episodes that we previously record where we get in death about it.

Chicky, let's start with you. what do you think is the biggest takeaway from your story? And what is the positive impact it gives to, I would say, in this situation, law enforcement. What can law enforcement take away from watching your story? 100% change is possible. You don't have to be a cooperator to change. You don't have to face 30 years in prison to change. from my experience only

I never you could check all the podcasts I ever did I never portrayed myself as a tough guy I never was I've been a gentleman from day one but um my friends will tell you I've got many calls

chickie come with us blah blah blah blah I never said I'm a bookmaker I don't do that and I said this in many interviews and it is what it is it's like I've been there for them their whole life you know they know that

They'll say it. And the bottom line is change as possible without being a cooperator for the government, without, you know, being this big shot guy who comes on and says, I killed six people. Same guy. I killed eight people. I killed 14. Come on. Bro, did you kill three?

Did you kill four or 14? You know what you killed. So, Sammy the Bull. I'm going to bring him up. I'm sorry. He's got a huge podcast. Michael Francis. They got a huge podcast.

Dominic Sakali, I can go on and on and on. I want to say now on this podcast, Joey Molino, okay, he's doing a podcast out of Philadelphia in Florida. The guy's a legitimate, real guy, never ratted ever. Did jail time a solid guy? And he's coming out exposing these rats, and they don't like it.

They want to fight back. They want to say, oh, this guy's no good, does that, a guy's a legend in Philadelphia is a legend. And we talk on social media. The guy's a gentleman. And it's just that my point today and I'm coming on. And I'm not going to lie to you. I read a lot of the comments when we did our show.

And people just don't want to realize, okay, you want to abuse me a little heavy, abuse me. I got no problem with that. But the bottom line is if you watch any of my interviews, it's never about this guy did this, that guy, at that. I would never, any active guys that don't talk about anything I'm not comfortable would I say allegedly

you'll see that. And it is what it is. It just said there's real guys out there now. It's a new way, a new day. There's real guys out there, Ian, that are exposing these rats. And that's what they are. They're rats.

And so Joey, skinny, Joey It's called the Skinny on YouTube. Anybody reach out, you know, subscribe. And he's just exposing these rats that they're all liars. They all bullshit to get their own best deal. And that's, I join him in his effort to expose these rats. And that's how it is.

Now, there are some YouTubers. I'm not going to name them to give them the clout in this, but there are some YouTubers that make hip pieces on you, Chekie. 100%. But if you notice all the. the YouTubers that talk shit about me, they got 5,000 subscribers you're under, okay? And you're 100% right. And I go on Angel Gotti a lot, Angel Gotti, which is John Gotti's senior's daughter. I go on her show, I support her. She don't like rats. I don't like rats. It is what

it is. But when you stir up the hornet's nest, they're going to come up and make bullshit. Anything they said about me and prove it. I'm going to. rat, show me paperwork, show me 302s, show me 501Ks, show me anything, there's nothing out there. All my paperwork is 100% out there. So I can't hide from nothing. I made sure my lawyer, I said to my lawyer, anything that's out there, I don't want to even know, forget about a sentence. I don't want a letter sealed.

Show everything. But you know what it is, you got rats that go against me, which is fine. I get it. I grew up with a kid, which I didn't even want to mention his name, but I grew up with a kid who we did get in a fight for like a year, back and forth, back and forth. And they make up things. They want to make you look bad because they feel bad. Certain people that I grew up with can't live with themselves. At 3 o'clock in the morning when they're sober and they look in the mirror, they can't live with themselves.

That's fine. But don't make up bullshit about me. If you got something to say about me, show paperwork, show trio twos. show FBI paperwork. They'll never be out there because I never rat it on nobody. I never will. And it is what it is. My case is, my case, it's all public.

So it's just a shame. The way, excuse me, this YouTube thing is going, it's disgusting. But I respect you. I respect Mark Gagnin. Even Johnny, Johnny Mitchell, all these guys, they just want to get a show and deal with the truth.

and a lot of these rats, they ain't saying the truth. You know? I think you just set a new record for how many times you could say rats in a five-minute spiel. I'm sorry. That's how I feel. No, no, I apologize. That's how I feel. Maybe I should say cooperators or make them feel better.

I like your sweatshirt, Jeff. Well, thank you. You have a stain on yours. Yeah, 3X. Thanks. Jeff, as someone that was former law enforcement that had a high-profile case, I'm sure there's a lot of current law enforcement office. that kind of follow you.

And I know you're still friendly with law enforcement. What takeaway did you want from your interview? Well, first, let me say. I got a ton of positive feedback. I was at my 35th reunion Saturday night, and everybody came up. Love the interview. They all follow you now.

The guys I work with follow you. My buddy's on the golf course every morning at 5 a.m. They're mowing while they listen to your podcasts. So it's been great. But all the cops that I've talked to back in Springfield that have watched the podcast, loved it. They loved hearing a lot of. of the old stories.

I got to set a couple things straight, some of the comments that I saw. And, of course, I didn't go through all of them. There's a ton of them. I never worked for Blackwater. I wore a Blackwater T-shirt. And a lot of the feedback was, this guy worked for Blackwater. He was waterboarding people. And how are we supposed to believe this guy?

He's a nut. I never worked for Blackwater. It was a T-shirt given to you by somebody that was a private contractor. But, you know, I like talking about. the job because the job's different now than it was when I was on. Even though I was on camera during that incident and on VHS back in the early 90s, everything's on camera now. Every intersection is filmed.

Anywhere you go, you're on camera and you have to act like almost like a robot. You also have a camera on your chest. And that was a big comment in a lot of the threads after your podcast was, why didn't you use a taser? and why was his camera not working? There were no cameras back then, and there were no tasers. So we were down to billy clubs,

flashlights, and firearm, or mace. That's all we had back then. If I had the camera now during that incident, I think it would have been a lot different. I don't think I would have ended up being incarcerated. I think things would have been different. But, you know, that's, like I was saying, the cops now, they have to,

to, they're walking like a thin razor line. If I overreact at a call, I could go to jail like Jeff. But if I underreact at a call, I could end up dead or injured. So it was good to come on and tell my story. And hopefully some of the younger cops pick up on what happened with me and they're able to make changes and do things differently. I appreciate you getting your friends to watch. Oh, my son is a huge fan of yours, Michael.

Absolutely loves it. Something that's great about the show is that we remain neutral, like in every interview. And that's just like we're not, you know, anti-cop. We're not pro-criminal. Like it doesn't, it's a safe spot for people to come and share their story. Something a reoccurring comment because I went through the comments on your episode was that people, some people got the impression that you felt that you never did anything wrong on the job. How do you feel about that comment? You know what's funny is, uh, I,

did, obviously as a cop, I've made mistakes. I'm not going to say that I didn't make any mistakes. And you're talking about 18 years. There were mistakes made. But the high profile cases, you read a lot about the ones that cemented my name in the newspaper, those were totally by the book. Everything I did, I stand behind what I did. As Chicky said earlier, all I wanted the end of the night was the guys I was working with to go home. And I do anything to make sure they got home. The cool thing about when I worked as a police officer was when a cop called for help on the radio or pressed his orange button, everyone in the city of Springfield. Every cop was at that call. It's different these days. I'm not saying guys aren't backing people up. They certainly are. But back then it was different. When you called,

people came and things got crazy. You know, you've got 40, 50, 60, 70 cops coming to your age. So you can imagine how crazy things got. Absolutely. You know, back then. Did any of those comments help you maybe see your story in a different light? So maybe the next time you tell it, it's a little bit different? Yeah, I think so. I think some of them did.

And again, I've made mistakes. I don't want anyone to think I was a choir boy as a cop. That's not what I was doing. But in the things in those highlighted cases, and I'm not going to go over. We went over them on the earlier podcast. but everything, if I had to do it over again, would all be done exactly the same. Too Good and Co coffee creamers are made with farm fresh cream, real milk,

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average savings $141. Select homes only. Same. You know. Yeah. I mean, not every single one of those people that made a comment, they don't have a perfect life. Everyone's made mistakes. You can't argue with the world, which is why I didn't go back on and engage in any conversation.

Yeah. And sometimes the comments, I'm sure, like, both of you guys got hundreds of thousands of comments on both the clips and the long form. Did that affect you guys mentally at all? Chicky? Did it affect you? When people can be mean and they start to bully and they do the weight comments and stuff, how does that make you feel? For me personally, I got to be honest with you, I laugh at a lot of comments.

Listen, if I got one eye and they abuse me about having one eye, how can I argue that? Okay, you're heavy, this, that. I get it. I get it. Abuse me for that. But please don't tell me I'm not, wasn't in a life. Don't tell me I wasn't around Bruno. Please don't tell me I wasn't around Anthony Arlotta.

these are facts. You can Google me. You can... These are facts. So, you know, did I get upset? No, I didn't. I got to accept what it is. I'm the first one who,

and you can listen to any interview I do, Ian, I'll abuse myself. You know, I'm a little heavy. I laugh a little bit. Like, you know, and I said it before, but with the comments with you, I literally laughed. I put smiley faces in a lot of the comments.

But I'm not. worried about these comments because the same people comment about me by weight. They're in their mother's basement, you know, in my opinion, maybe I'm wrong, but they're in their mother's basement waiting for get called up for a chicken noodle soup and a fried cheese sandwich and they're abusing me. You know, I'm just saying I'm not a big shot. I'm not a tough guy. I'm not a gangster. I'm just who I am. I'm telling my personal story. But the thing is, you know, live a mile in my shoe before you abuse me. And that's all I'm saying.

And I'm not a tough guy. I'm a gentleman. But live a mile in my shoe before you abuse me. You want to abuse me a mile and wait? I get it. Okay, I'm heavy. Okay, that's great. But if that's all you got, that doesn't bother.

That doesn't bother me. Chicky, in our last episode you covered in death that you ran kind of like with the Italians in prison. You fit in with them. 100%. How would they have treated Jeff, a former cop, if they, They saw him in federal prison. I got to be honest.

I like Jeff. I grew up with Jeff. We were around the same people. But a cop, like if he said, I'm a cop, they would have shunned him. Not because of him as a man. And if I knew him, I would have said, no, this guy's different. Because I'm not going to bring up the guy's name. He's a good friend of mine.

But I was in the USP Canaan. And about eight months after I was there, a cop, an ex-cop from Springfield, came in to Canaan. Okay? he had to serve like a year and a half. I won't even mention his name. But him and his brother were good guys. They were around us. He was a cop.

And I won't say his name, but I'm the one that went on record in the jail and said, listen, this kid's coming in the next 30 days. And he's a good kid. I know he's got a title. If you look him up, it's going to say he's a cop, but he's a good dude. Listen, he helped us.

He's got his own problems, but he's a good dude. And I left. He came in about, actually, to be honest with you, I left on, I don't remember what day it was, but he only came in like a day or two after me. And they were waiting for him, and they embraced him with open arms

because of what I said. And if they looked him up, he was an ex-cop. But the kid was a gentleman, his brother was a gentleman, his brother-in-law was a gentleman. We were all friends. So I said, I know what's going to say, a cop, but the kids

gentleman, he's stand up as they come, and they embraced him like a brother. And that's the truth. I want to mention his name because he's still out there. He's a good kid. But he was a Springfield cop that went to my prison, and, you know, it is what it is. I set him up and everything was great. I'm sure it depends on the charges, though, too. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, no. He had, like, you know, fraud or whatever he had. He wasn't a cop. I'm where. They fired him. But I said, listen, this kid's a good kid, his brother's a good kid, his brother-in-law is my good friend, and it is what it is. But I'm just saying the kid's a good kid. I don't want to mention his name, but, you know, he was a cop, but he's seen things, maybe a cop shouldn't seen, and he didn't say

nothing. And they sent him to jail for that, which to me and my heart is honorable. That's honorable. What about on the street? How would you, how would the mob treat police officers? Well, that's a great thing you bring it up. Bruno was my guy Adolf. Oh, sorry, Big Al Bruno was my guy. Sorry. My guy, he was a good guy. And to make a long story short, you know, Jeff knew Bruno, Jeff knew Bruno.

And he had a restaurant caught Karamia in Springfield. And I used to go there on certain nights of the week. And then he had the Irish crew go there certain nights at a week. And we were close. You know, I used to go to his house and eat dinner. But Jeff, when he was on patrol, and when I get done, Jeff will explain. But Jeff and his partner, any cop partner, would go to Karamea, and they would go in the back door, up to the back steps,

and Josie was a sweetheart, you know, an older lady, a sweetheart of a lady. She was the cook, and Bruno was there. And they would show up, and he would give them food to go, and he would put wine in little plastic cups so they could, have it in their patrol car. And Jeff can explain that more, but Bruno was friendly with everybody. He was friends with the criminals, and he was friends with the cops and the district attorneys, which at the end really kind of, you know, got him in a lot of trouble.

But he was friends with Maddie Ryan, who was a DA in Springfield, huge DA. And they love Bruno. It's political, you know, in a way. Listen to me. He used to play racquet with him, and I would be in the YMCA. and watch him and the district attorney, Maddie Ryan, play racquetball. And I'd say to myself, what's going on? This is crazy.

But Bruno was smart. For like 15 years, Maddie Ryan had cases against us, not so much me, but my friends and other people where they were getting trouble for salt batteries, baseball bats, dangerous weapons. They would beat the case. It would get dropped. So it just made sense to me. this is the right thing. Bruno's doing it the right way. He makes friends with district attorneys,

with lawyers, with cops, and it helped him in the end. And at the end of the day, it went against him because people used it against him to murder him. And it's too bad because

when they say Bruno was a rat and Bruno was a stool pigeon and Bruno talked to FBI agents, saw bullshit. the guy was a good guy. He didn't do that. This is other people saying that to try to diminish what they did to him

and did to other people that they put in jail for life. But Jeff can explain more about that with Karamea. Maybe you can go on to that. Yeah, now, Jeff, how would police officers treat mobsters or mob associates on the street? I mean, your standard patrolman's not going to deal with mobsters that often. You know, I grew up, my father was a fireman. You know, a lot of firemen have part-time jobs, you know, electricians or landscapers.

My father was a bartender at this Donnie's Cafe, which I would guess that Elle had a piece of, you know, with the guy Donnie, who was the owner of the bar. Mr. Angelo. Yeah, Mr. Angelo. So when I was young and I'd go in there, you had a real mix. You had mobsters, you had politicians. you had cops, firefighters, lawyers, all in this one bar. So I got to see those guys early on, you know,

looking up to the cops and seeing, oh, these guys are in the mafia. You know, these guys are wise guys. But over the years, I always knew who Al was. If I didn't see him, I'd read the articles. But he knew my father from bartending at Donnie's. So we'd go to Karameas, and he would feed us great dinners. and that he'd fill up solo cups with red wine. And I suppose it doesn't matter now.

My partner and I, you know, we'd get on the riverfront, with half a cup of wine. And I'd smoke my cigar on the cruiser, and my partner'd smoke a cigarette. We'd listen to the Red Sox. You know, that's a long time ago. But that's the extent to see in those guys. Besides maybe seeing them sit out in front of our Florentina,

having their coffees, you know, there was really no exchanges between us. They were always very respectful to street patrolmen. They were always nice to us. I never got the sense that these guys did want us around when we'd go in for coffee. It was never like that. I didn't think it was contentious at all. Now, when they took care of you, do you feel like that you owed them something?

If you were to see them, say, committing a crime, would you have stepped in? No, because, again, usually with those guys, the feds or the state police unit is doing most of the work with those guys. Our local guys, we have, you know, the homicide detectives for homicides in Springfield, which obviously ended up investigating Bruno's murder down in the south end. But usually

the feds are more mindful of organized crime in our area. It's not the local PD. I don't think I'd ever be in a position unless I pulled somebody over. But I work with Al Bruno's son Victor. I was a bouncer at a popular bar in Springfield.

Got along with him very well. Used to see the father all the time in there, but never in a position that do them a favor. You know, I mean, I suppose the least I could do is take care of a ticket for him if I pulled them over, but that would be it. Interesting. Now, I don't usually bring a lot of guests on for a part two. You guys are in a handful of guests, and so I wanted to give our audience a chance. I asked on our YouTube channel earlier some questions that they had directed to you guys,

and we went over some of the comments, and I picked out some of the top questions that individuals have for you guys. and so the first one is for chicky would the mob kill a wife or girlfriend of another mobster or is that off limits absolutely off limits from my experience but there were guys like wadi bulger

and they called the grim reaper okay Greg Scarpa in New York there were guys that did it but it always ended up the same they did whatever they wanted because they were informants okay and the government and I'm sorry this is the truth

you know people can believe me they don't have to believe me look it up it's on YouTube I'm sorry like I'm giving out secrets the government okayes these guys they don't say kill these people but they just give them a free pass to do what they want and there was a lot of informants

that killed a lot of people and they were forgiven by the government and like I said The two biggest is Greg Scarpa, the Grim Reaper out of Brooklyn, and Whitey Bulger. They killed women. They killed people, a lot of people. Greg Scarpa's got like 80 to 100 murders, and the government forgave him because he was an informer for 35 years. Whitey Bulger, people text me and say, Whitey Bulger wasn't a rat.

He was a rat. He was a rat. He put the Angulo brothers in the North and a boss in a way. put a lot of guys away. He could kill women, children, people. The government knew. But when you start killing people like that, you're an animal, you're known as a street, tough guy,

you're either an informant or you're going to end up dead. That's the facts. So that's the truth. Roy DeMaio, he wasn't an informant. He was a serious guy, a killer with the Gemini twins, okay? where did he end up? He was a killer. He'd kill everybody in two seconds.

He ended up in his trunk dead. The real guys on the street in New York, they're not going to put up with that. They're not going to put up with the heat. They're not going to put up with guys that are killing a ton of people because it brings heat to them. He ended up in his trunk dead.

Okay, he wasn't a rat, but Whitey Bulger and Greg Scarpa, 35 years, 40 years. They came out. They were a rat. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them.

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make presentations for that thing, or design merch for that thing, you can do anything. So people can see your thing, feel your thing, love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. So that's what I'm saying. DeMaio was a paranoid guy too. Yeah.

I read his book. He was so paranoid that a guy knocked down his door. His wife called, so there's a guy outside. He's a van. He thought the guy's there to kill him. He chased the guy six blocks, shot him and killed him, and it was a vacuum sales guy. Selling vacuums door to door. Wow.

Yeah. That's crazy. That's how paranoid he was. Yeah. Now, Jeff, someone asked the question, what was the worst mob-related crime scene you've been on? And if there isn't any, if you hadn't had any experience, and we can just say, worst crime scene you've been on. Well, I was, but I wasn't a respondent officer there. So we didn't get called there that night.

But, you know, I was down there. But I wouldn't call that, though, you know, the worst scene I've ever been on. You know, there's, let me try to think here. There's a few. I mean, any time you have an infant involved in anything. it's tough. There was a woman killed in the south end of Springfield, downtown, and people started seeing the mail pile up at the door.

And, you know, we went there with another car, and once we got inside, you knew right away with a smell. And the woman was in a closet, stabbed 25, 27 times, and didn't even look real, you know, been stabbed so many times she'd been there six seven eight days whatever it was and uh i heard somebody yell hey come on into the kitchen i went in the kitchen there was a six-year-old kid dead on a mattress and there were handprints on the fridge so and what ended up happening was the kid kept going to its mom in the closet to see if she'd wake up and then going to the fridge to try to get food because

it was starving, but wasn't strong enough to open the fridge. That to me was probably the worst crime scene I'd ever seen. When you go on crime scenes like that, does that ever leave you? Like even to this day, do you have reflections? I just, actually, it was even tough just to tell that again. And I've told it to select people, because it's not a story you're going to run around telling everybody. But, you know, that's the type of stuff where you go home and, you know,

fire down a shot or stop at a bar quick and, uh, no, stuff like that doesn't leave you. My service overseas, you know, my PTSD, but incidents like that,

that with you the rest of your life. And I think it's very powerful that you're sharing it because it gives individuals that, you know, might have looked at law enforcement in one way. It gives a law enforcement a different perspective because maybe that one law enforcement officer that was a prick to him one, day could have been just leaving a scene like that.

Yeah, you don't, you don't know. You don't know what the other person's going through. These guys have seen so much, been through so much. It really is, it gives you, you know, a second thought and it makes you think about things. Yeah. Now, Chicky, why did the mob have a no-drug policy early on? It might have changed now, but people were curious about why it was so anti-drug. Because, because, in my opinion,

opinion only, I was taught since young if you're into drugs and you're selling drugs, the majority of people selling drugs are on drugs. They're not just selling them and they're like they're not on drugs. You know what I mean? So they weren't trusted. It was like from what I heard from real guys through my whole life, that's why I never dealt drugs, was like, listen, you're dealing with a different kind of person. you're dealing with a guy if he's suffering from an opioid addiction

the feds will say to him you're suffering they'll make you suffer in a jail and say we'll give you oxycontin or whatever percocet or whatever it is and they can make you flip so that's what was the thing they were weak people that were on drugs and loyal to drugs and needed drugs to get healthy it made them weak so the question you're trying to say say is because they knew from an early age drugs weakens people, you know, and that's basically what it is. You know what I mean?

They just knew from an early age. If you're in a cell, the feds will do anything in their power to make you flip. So they'll maybe make you a week, you know, in a cell. And if you're a drug addict, you're, you know, you're defecating yourself and you're sick. and they'll say, we can make this all better. Just tell us what you know. And under that condition, a lot of people would open up. So that's why, in my opinion, they didn't like that.

You know what I'm saying? They knew it was weak. That's what I think. And it's pretty accurate, but it's only what I think. Jeff, now, why is it so hard for the good officers to speak out against the bad officers? when doing something wrong against, you know, a civilian. Actually, I'll get into it, but I'll just say that from chicky standpoint,

you would think you're being a rat maybe, you know, if you're going to tell on other cops. But it depends what they're doing, too. You know, I've seen cops drink on duty. I've seen cops use drugs on duty. Not a high percentage. A guy here, a guy there. Most of the people I work with were great cops. But, you know, you'd see people using drugs.

I think when it started getting into money, you know, people taking money. There was a cop that I worked with years ago was an older guy. And every time I would see him tow a car or we had an accident, I'd see him take the change out of the cup holders and the ashtrays. And I'm just, you know, after a while, I'm just like, You're freaking kidding me. I pulled the guy aside. I'm like, what are you doing?

I'm here with you. You know, if they look this up, I'm assisting you here. What are you taking change for? But besides talking to them, I'm not going to, I would never run to I IU, but if it ever involved something

that I thought had gone beyond the limits of stuff like that, you know, I'd have to wrestle with my conscience. Is this worth maybe pulling aside a captain or lieutenant or a sergeant I know? you know, not going to I IU, but saying to a sergeant, hey, I got this going on with this guy, something's got to be done. You know, at least on your level, you need to go to him and talk to him and get him to either

knock it off or let him know you're watching them. I don't think I'd ever directly go to IAU, but if it involves something sexual or something I thought was, I've got no problem, you know, pulling somebody aside to say, hey, you deal with it. If you think it needs to get kicked up the chain, you do it. But I just want to let you know what's going on. Did you have principles? Like you wouldn't let anyone plant evidence on someone or a false arrest or anything like that?

I didn't see anybody really, anybody. There were stories, but I never saw anybody actually plant evidence when I was on the job. I'm sure it happened here and there. I just, I never saw it. But, you know, I had one guy and he was a really good kid and he was going through a drug problem. And it was a lot going on. with them and they kind of stuck them in an area of the city where it was good for him to be it was quiet you don't get a lot of calls and it was a domestic and when we went there the woman was beat up

we put the guy in the car somebody's talking to the woman and he goes in the house and he's not even part of our call shows up to like assist us but doesn't call out and that goes into their house and then like 10 minutes later he comes out with a pillowcase with like DVDs and I don't even know what else was in it. And I looked at the other guy I'm with and I said, it's his call now. Take the guy out of the cruiser, put him in his car, and we're out of here. Because I didn't want to be connected to it. You know, and the guy's watching him do it. He's watching them come out. Now, I don't know if he ever complained or anything, but that's the type of stuff that goes on. Not a lot, but you'll see it happens. It happens. Yeah, it happens. I mean, I always say that there's, they are bad officers,

but they're also, the majority of them are good. There's, I could tell you, I've never dealt and all the time I was on the job, never dealt with a cop that stood in the garage or after Roll Call and said, you know, I'm going to go out tonight and I'm going to pound somebody out. I'm angry tonight. I got an argument with my wife.

I'm going to go kill somebody tonight. I'm just, I'm putting a hurting on somebody. And never saw that. I saw guys that were angry guys that when they felt there, they were being called out or, you know,

would react in a way that was, you know, way over the top. But I never saw anybody intentionally say Tonight's the night I go out and look to kick somebody's ass. Did you see that the breaking news about the female cop that got railed by the whole department? Oh, yeah. Does that happen? Not on our job.

Not in Springfield. I never saw that happen. But yeah, there's a lot of wackiness goes on in these jobs. Is everyone, are people like hook it up with each other? Are you talking about the girl? I don't mean to interrupt. Oh, no, no. Are you talking about the girl who had sexual relations with all the cops?

And she has a husband at home. And she had out of the wrong. Well, I don't know. Listen, I can only tell you, it's none of the do with me. Thank God. But there were cop women and prison guard women that loved going with guys that were in the street. Not cops, street guys. Why do you think that is?

Because they're like that bad boy thing. Not that I was. But there were some cops, women, and there were some correction officer women that they would come down to the south end. where we hung around, you know, on the weekend, 30, 40, 50 at a time. And we know them, you know, guys were in jail. And they're like, oh, my God, that's the security guard. That's the guard. And, you know, a couple of...

Do you think you became more attractive after you got out of prison? I think I did it. To the wrong kind of girl, but yeah, I think so. Well, you're married, right, Jeff? Almost 30 years, yeah. She stuck with me through everything that happened to me. My wife is still there for me. Do you guys get crazy, like, messages?

after people have seen you go on platforms and tell your story? Well, he's got a good wife. He's got a great wife. No, but I'm just saying. I had a wife, you know, she was a beautiful girl. And when the get was good, she loved it. But then when I went to jail and things were bad. They slapped those cuffs off.

See you later. But that's okay. But, you know, I just got to mention her through the grace of God. I've met a nice girl now. And she's a sweetheart. She treats me like a king. But I'm done with that bullshit now. I'm doing, like I said, you know,

not trying to pump it up, but I'm doing the movie now. It's coming out before Christmas. So I'm blessed. But, no, we went through, I went through a lot. You know, he's got a wife who's a sweetheart like a princess. She's stuck with him to everything. That's a real woman.

But we all find different people in paths and lives. And the girl like I now, I'm so, excuse me, I'm so blessed. She's a sweetheart. And it is what it is. You know, you live and you learn and you learn what's right and what's not right. For a long time, I didn't know it was right. I didn't. I was crazy.

I thought crazy things. And I'm just being honest. It's about change. And that's why I love your show because it's about, you can do crazy things in the past, but it's about change, real change, not change. Oh, I'm changed. But meanwhile, you're selling baseball bats or you're abusing. your victims, families.

It's not about that. It's about real change. And you get that change through lived experience. Experience. I'm going to have five grandchildren come March. And it's just like, I'm just blessed. I'm so happy. Everything is turned around for me.

And, you know, like I said, I'm here with Jeff because Jeff, you know, did his thing. He's got a great wife, a great little, two kids. I got two kids. I got five grand. children come in March, I'm blessed. I'm blessed. That's why I come on. I called you all summer and he's like, I'm by the pool. I can't talk. I'm going to go to the movies. My condo got a pool. I told

you to come down. You don't want to come down. Now, Jeff, you have a story that is a hot topic in America and a sensitive topic and it really could have caused, it had the potential by coming on a platform to share it. It could cause, it could have caused you more hurt than it did good. Yeah. Why did you decide to take that risk to share that story? And what do you think came from it because you decided to share that story? I think the original reason that I wanted to tell the story, this is way before I met you or for years, I started putting together a book, which in the next year, year and a half will be out. We'll have you back again when it comes out.

Yeah, House of Hay, it'll be out and we'll get back on and talk about that. But all these years, I never felt like at a platform. It started off with, as I told you in our earlier interview, with betrayal from people that I worked with. A lot of things that they did to move the investigation a different way, disregard a witness. Those are a lot of the reasons I ended up being incarcerated over this. And for years, I wanted to, you know, yell it out to people. Look, you're not going to believe what happened to me. You're not going to believe this story.

And this is how it started. and this is how it got to hear, but I didn't have a platform to do it, so it was great to come on your show and be able to open up, and I can't believe the responses I got from people. And I would say 99.9% were, Jeff, I love the podcast.

She did a great job, and it was very well done, and we love Ian, and it was, you know, but it was good to get on there and talk about all that stuff because, you know, I definitely was betrayed.

It's like therapy, you know? It is. It's coming on, and someone that has been in your shoes before, because a therapist hasn't. So coming on to the show, people get comfortable and they're able to talk about it. Well, cops don't, I mean, obviously it happens,

but it's not often that you've got a cop that goes to jail. It's not. Again, you see it a lot more now with social media, but, you know, the story was just different. I mean, you know, here you are one day. You're working, and my wife asked me, do you want to go to my college reunion? I say no.

I'm going to make some extra money on overtime. Oh, wow. And then that incident happens, and it changes our whole. Do you ever think about that? Of course. Do you say if I just went to that reunion? Every time I pass a cop working a flagman job on the road, I think I should still be out here.

But I'm actually in the time frame now where I would have retired in the last probably six months. Yeah. I'd have already been done. Well, listen, Jeff, Chicky, I really appreciate you guys coming back here, doing part two. This was great. Mr. Chicky, we're to grab some food for your birthday, man. Get you some great. My birthday today.

Don't worry. How old are you now, Chicky? You're going to go for some money. Don't worry. How old are you now? Should I say 56? You're 56? Yeah, 1996.

You look good for 56, Chiqui. Yeah, he does. No, but I'm glad I met you guys. You know, I met Chiqui, and then I met, I met Jeff after Chiqui, right? It's been an absolute pleasure, Ian. You're doing a great job here, hearing somebody's stories. These guys making epic comebacks and opening up with you. And it's been great.

stories than me on the comments. Please, this is to your viewers. Help me out a little bit. I'm a little heavy, but don't torture me. They said, I ate the mob. But listen, I'm the first one of laughing myself, but, you know, I've been through a lot. Help me out. Shiki, you know, I made a TikTok saying what I ate in prison. It was you as the main thumbnail or whatever. That did. Yeah, but I was, I really ate that. I got a picture on my Instagram. But they were like, there's no way this guy was just, I lost 150 pounds in a year. There's pictures on my Instagram and look it up. Why isn't there a book out there with commissary menus? I thought about that.

No, Larry Lawton just dropped one. A big shot did it. Some big rapper did it. Well, Larry Lawton just dropped one too. A lot of people did it. It's a hot thing. Yeah. But, you know, just for this show, please everyone, give me a good comment.

Absolutely. Like him, he said he didn't bother him. I was running off to jump off the Connecticut South End Bridge. All right, guys. Thanks for coming on the show. Yeah, you got it again. Thanks again, man.

I appreciate it. Thank you, bro.