Locked In with Ian Bick - How This Atlanta Hustler Built a Million-Dollar Drug Empire | Eric Girault

Episode Date: September 28, 2025

Eric Girault grew up in New York City and was selling crack by the time he was 13 years old. Hoping to save him from the streets, his parents moved the family to Atlanta — but Eric’s hustle never stopped. After dropping out of college, he built a successful weed business that made him serious money… until an associate snitched, landing him in federal prison with a 12-year sentence. #DrugEmpire #AtlantaHustler #TrueCrimePodcast #KingpinStories #PrisonInterviews #DrugTrafficking #CrimeDocumentary #LockedInPodcast Thank you to EXPRESSVPN, BLUECHEW & PRIZEPICKS for sponsoring this episode: ExpressVPN: Secure your online data TODAY by visiting https://www.expressvpn.com/lockedin to find out how you can get up to four extra months. BlueChew: Visit https://bluechew.com/ and use promo code LOCKEDIN at checkout to get your first month of BlueChew FREE & pay five bucks for shipping. Prizepicks: Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/IANBICK and use code IANBICK and get $50 in lineups when you play your first $5 lineup! Connect with Eric Girault: Website - https://www.innoutww.com/ YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@innoutww Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/5yVcjJ5JeeWBKh5ZgMxVV0 Apple Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-n-out-podcast-with-eric-girault/id1699916908 TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@innoutww Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/innoutww/ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Use code LOCKEDIN for 20% OFF Wooooo Energy Buy Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00 From Hustle Dreams to Federal Prison: Eric Girault’s Story02:13 Growing Up in NYC: Family, Streets & Survival04:42 The Neighborhood That Shaped Him06:14 Selling Crack at 13: How It All Began11:31 Street Rules & Lessons Learned Early13:33 Fast Money, Lifestyle & Getting Caught by His Parents20:48 Moving to Atlanta: Trying to Escape the Streets23:48 High School Years: Struggling to Stay Straight28:03 Dropping Out & Starting a Weed Business in College37:46 Music Industry Dreams & Dangerous Rivalries44:41 Earning the Nickname “The Black John Gotti”53:18 Building a Full College Weed Empire01:03:38 Scaling Up: Moving Serious Weight01:16:37 Drug Trafficking Logistics & Street Strategy01:32:00 Betrayal, Indictment & The Federal Case That Changed His Life01:51:51 12 Years in Federal Prison: Survival, Growth & Redemption02:11:40 Life After Prison: Mentorship, Advocacy & Giving Back02:23:32 Changing His Story & Inspiring the Next Generation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Tell us that first moment you hustled when you were 13. This dude literally put a hit out on me. It's crazy as hell. Tell us about prison. Where'd they send you to? Eric Geralt started selling crack on the streets of New York City when he was just 13 years old. After moving to Atlanta to escape the hustle, he dropped out of college, built a lucrative weed business, and then an associate snitched, landing him in federal prison for 12 years.

Today, Eric shares the raw, unfiltered story of betrayal, prison life, and how he turned it all around. Eric, welcome to locked in, man. What's happening, Ian? Thanks for having me, bro. Good to be here. Yeah, thanks so much for coming, man. I really appreciate it. I know you've been making your rounds.

You're on mats and johnnies, and now you're locked in. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. And I enjoy it. I tell you a little fun fact. This is my first time of Connecticut. But I actually grew up at a younger age in Queens, New York. So I'm here. I come last night, and I'm looking for a good Italian restaurant.

So the lady at the hotel tells me to go to Ratchez. and so I'm driving within five minutes I see the sign and it says like welcome to New York the Empire State and I'm like what the fuck I didn't it sounds kind of stupid

I mean I knew Connecticut was close but I just didn't realize it was that close yeah we're right on the border Ratchez is good did you like it oh hell yeah yeah if we if you didn't go there we would have suggested Stanziados

that's where my girlfriend works so we always go there Matt suggested Sanjiados yeah and I'm probably gonna try them next but the lady at the hotel was like no you gotta go here they're not as consistent

they used to be really, really good. Maybe they changed chefs, but this is a top-flight place. I mean, it was good. I'm going to check out of Stangiotto. Yeah, no, go to Stanziados. Ratchez is good, though. It's got, like, that upscale vibe to it, too. Does Stangiottoes have pizza?

Yeah. Oh, Wood-Fired. I don't know if you're going to like it because you're from New York, but I love, that's my favorite pizza, wood-fired pizza. I got to try it. So I was talking to Matt last night via text, and I'm like, y'all, I'm an Italian food snob.

Like, I grew up in New York, and I'm really a pizza snob. I know good pizza. And he's like, well, Connecticut is actually the pizza capital of the world. I'm like, really? Are you? Like, I never heard it. He was like, I was like, are you bullshit or is this like facts?

And he was like, no, it's true. And he told me about some guy. I don't remember the name. And he was like, he went around and did a pizza testing, taste testing. Dave Portnoy. That's what he said. Barstool. Yeah.

So now I got to try the pizza. I have to. It's really good. Where do you grow up, Eric? I grew up in Bayside Queens until I was in my teens. And then the rest of my time, I spent. in Atlanta, Georgia, and that's where I live now to this day. What was your upbringing, Mike?

Middle class, lower middle class. I mean, you know, lower middle class, black family in New York. We were in the suburbs because we were in Bayside Queen. So, you know, my father was a working man, and my mother was a housewife. It was three of us, my older brother and a younger sister. So we had what we needed, but we, you know, we were not wealthy by any stretch of their imagination. and, you know, I got into things at a young age because I always wanted more money. And then my parents moved me out in New York and got me down in Atlanta.

And I'm happy for that also. I love Atlanta. What was your dad doing for work? My dad was a systems analyst for maritime overseas. They fucked him when he was real, when he was just about to have like 20 years in and have his pension, like 19 and a half years or whatever. They laid them off with a bunch of other people. And that kind of pacitated to move to Atlanta. but my mom wanted to move to Atlanta anyway

because she was sick of the cold. So when I started selling crack at a young age because of the bad influences in the neighborhood that accelerated our move to Atlanta. What was the neighborhood like at that time period growing up? So in Bayside, it was in the few block radius that we lived in, it was predominantly black. But, you know, there were all the races that were there

and it was basically working class, black family that was able to move from other areas in New York once you was able to save enough money and get a house. Bayside was one of the areas, just like Hollis Queens or, you know, Queens Village, different areas in New York where people would move if they could afford to get a house, the first house or whatever. So that's what that was like.

But in any direction, if you went too far, it was different races. It was either the Jewish community or it was an Italian community or it was the Asian community. The Asians, they were in flushing. they started to buy up flushing in the late 80s. Now they own flushing just about. That's really what a new Chinatown is.

It's in Flushing, which is right next to Bayside, Queens. Yeah, I've been there before, and everything is the Chinese community there in an Asian community. That's right. It wasn't like that when I was growing up. There was some Asians, but it was a lot of blacks and, you know, and everybody else. They had some projects that was, you know, majority black in Flushing and stuff like that. How would you describe yourself as a kid? I was a good kid, but, uh,

Yeah, I was a good kid. I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness by my mom. So, so I, you know, my parents, neither one of them, you know, they never did anything illegal. It was just a positive influence. My father's Haitian. So because of those roots, he was, you know, he believed in a disciplinarian like most West Indians. You know, he believed you go to school, you get your education, you get a good job. That's what he preached all the time.

He wasn't really so religious, even though he was religious, but we didn't get the religiousness from my dad. Like he was raised as a seventh day eventist, but we never interacted from a religious standpoint with my dad. That was all with my mom. And so my background was cool, but I had a thirst for money as a child. And I had influences around me. You know, there was drug dealers in the neighborhood. And then I had people in my family through marriage that were heavy hitters in New York. They were, you know, there was groups of people in New York at that time.

There was the Supreme Team. There was the Collie Brothers. There was other people in New York that was running, they were controlling different areas in primarily South Jamaica, Queens is what I'm referring to. And the Collie Brothers were my family through marriage, through my aunt. And, you know, so that was a heavy influence on me. They was known all over New York.

They made millions of dollars. You know, they was in the news. They were drug kingpins, the brothers. And, you know, so that influenced me. I would go to parties as a kid. or hear of them and they would have rappers and, you know, the rappers at that time, and they would pay them just to do their birthday parties. You know, they had cars, they had the jury, all of the stuff that you see, you know,

if you watch, you know, old footage of videos or what have you of what was going on at that time in New York, especially like rap was created in New York, like the things that a lot of the rappers may be rapping about at different periods of time, these dudes was legend. So a lot of the times before rappers was actually drug dealers and then they'd become rappers, It was like sometimes happens today. Dudes in the street, they're in the street, but they end up, you know, they have the skills to rap, so they end up making it into music industry. Back then, the things that the rappers was fantasizing about was the drug dealers that

was doing it in real life. It was reality. It was fantasized by musicians, but it was reality for dudes that was in the street. And those were some of the things that influenced me when I was growing up. Now, my family, they was all straight-laced. They was hard-working, you know, educated family. And, you know, so that was the good side. or the good influence, should I say.

Not that one side is good or bad, but those were the good influences. But as a kid, you know, my eye was always towards some of that other element that I seen just because I was close by it and I was impressed, you know, by money, the flash, and all that type of stuff. But, you know, as a kid, I, you know, I had everything that I needed. Why do you think music didn't interest you and it was more about the money and the drugs? Well, well, music did interest me. Because actually I tried to, I tried that the whole rap day when I was 13, 14 years old also. Me and my brother and my cousins, we was in the breakdancing and popping and rap and all that also.

But, you know, obviously I didn't have the skills, you know, like some of these cats out now. And really, maybe I did, but I didn't, you know, it's really wherever your focus lies. And the allure of the streets at a young age, because I'll tell you what, my father, like I said being old school Haitian American like back then in the 80s when the music industry was really starting to pop you know old school parents was like

you know get out of here this is just a fad this is a phase don't spend your time on that go to school get a good education nobody really believed that rap back then they didn't believe that rap would be where it is today so we really didn't know how to break into the rap game even though we tried we went to a couple of record labels in the city and all that we had we had tapes and all of that.

We were trying to really do it in the music industry, but the streets just kept calling me. At a very, very young age, I was able to make significant money, unbeknownst to my parents, at a very, very young age, 13 years old. And when I look back now, because I have children, you know,

ranging from, you know, early 20s to mid-20s, but when I look at when my children were 13, it's kind of mind-blowing. because I'm able to remember what I was doing at 13 and what a horror story that was to my parents when they found out that I was selling drugs and they moved me to Atlanta because when you look at a 13-year-old child,

when you're older and you realize that's so young. It's just so young. I had no idea what I was doing and the pain and the grief that I brought to my parents is actually shameful. I'm embarrassed about it to this day, but it is what it is, you know. Tell us that.

That first moment you hustled when you were 13. Yeah, I was super young, and it was a dude in the neighborhood that was, you know, that was a heavy influence on us. He was only about 18 himself. So, you know, yeah, he was a young man, kind of, but we know. 18, you still really don't know what the hell is going on in the world. You just think you do. And, you know, it was me, and it was two of my friends. It was Joe Michel and it was Harold Bing.

You know, Joe Michelle is still one of my best friends to this day. Harold Bing has passed. But, you know, he got us to sell crack for him. And, you know, we didn't know, I was scared. I was more scared of getting caught by my parents than anything else. But we were willing to do it. You know, we thought we could get away. But we were willing to do a lot of things back those days

because you just figured you was going to hide it from your parents. And, you know, once he gave us the game and how you can do it and how you could not get caught, you know, we did it. And he gave us, back then they had vials. they were crack vials. And, you know, it was a scary but exciting time as a 13-year-old kid to get your first package from your local crack dealer, which in this case, you know, we all got a package. And, you know, it was pretty exciting. You know, I just remember getting that package and kind of being like nervous.

We're kind of excited at the same time. And I got a package of 250, and we would sell those for 20. We would have to pay 10 for them. And, you know, we made money real fast at that young age, you can only imagine. Back in the 80s, a 13-year-old kid making that type of money in, you know, probably one or two days. It was fascinating. Going online without Express VPN is like putting a big sign on your front lawn that says, hey, I don't lock my front door.

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slash locked in Did you know what crack was and the effects of it at the time? Nah, hell no. We didn't really have no idea and I really remember I was 13 years old I mean, you know as the years went on

13, 14 years old you know we saw grown men doing all type of you know crazy strange shit we've seen growing women doing you know crazy shit grown women giving you know

giving blow jobs and sucking dick you know just to get high on crack so that was it was kind of crazy and it was really introducing your mind at a very young age to things that you really couldn't understand. So, you know, it was shameful, but at the same time, we were kids and we were being influenced. One thing I realized now that I'm a lot older is that you spend a lot of time with people in the neighborhood or friends or people at school just as much if not more time

with people outside of your parents because you have to go to school you have to go to school, you have to come home, you spend those time in school, your parents are probably most of the time trying to make ends meet. They're at work, you know, when you want to go out to the playground,

whether you're going to play basketball or football, we did a lot of that, whether or not you're boxing in the street, whatever it is you're doing, you're spending an awful lot of time where people away from home. So a lot of times, in a lot of instances, no matter how much of an effort

that your parents may make to be a positive influence to you. There's negative influences that are there. And, you know, some people get influenced more than others. I was one that was influenced more than others because that law of making money at a young age, it was on me. And I wanted to make the money. And that's what I did.

What were the game or the principles that that first mentor taught you about of the street? Number one, don't fuck up the money. everybody got to pay. And you're going to pay one way or another. And, you know, they taught us about how to evade police. You know, back then they called them dks. They were DTs, undercover and all of that.

One of the things that they made an impression upon us, as a matter of fact, when you asked me about what was it like when I first started selling is, you know, as I think about it, as you know, Ian, I haven't told the story too many times. Matter of fact, this is only the third time that I told it. So as I talk about it more and more, I remember back. One of the things that they impressed upon us, which was one of the main points that convinced us to go ahead and do this, is the fact that we were minors. And in New York at that time, if you was a minor, you couldn't be charged as an adult until I think you had to be at least 17, maybe 18.

So the impression that they made on us was you're just going to get a slap of the wrist if you do get caught. The worst thing that's going to happen to you is you're going to get your ass beat by your parents. you get arrested, but it was just something that would be on your record as a juvenile, and it would go away when you was 18.

So that was one of the things that they caught us, that they taught us. Another thing, never keep it on you. You know, so we would always have different, you know,

different places where we would hide it, you hide it here, hide it there. One of the things that I would do is, is, and this was just, you know,

thinking at a young age, this was just a little genius, ingenious idea that I came up with. Because most of the crack hairs, they smoke cigarettes too. So I remember the box of new ports, I would take out the little filter in the back, and the vial would

fit in there perfectly, so I would have, you know, the 20 cigarettes in the pack, and they would be faced down. So if you look in the pack of cigarettes, you just see cigarettes. So then when, like, one of the crack hairs would come up and they would want their crack, I would just make it seem like I was just giving them a cigarette. When that cigarette, they would have their vial inside. How does a 13-year-old avoid getting taken advantage of or beat for the money or the drugs? Well, it has happened before. But mainly it's, you know, you learn trial and error, but at the same time, it's who you're dealing for in New York.

They wasn't really on no gang time back then. So everything was controlled by whoever it was in that particular neighborhood. And everybody knew nine times out of ten based on the color or whatever just because there was the particular people I was working with, they was running the neighborhood. So the crack is, they would beat you because I was beat before by a dude named Disco Dave. And he got totally fucked up. I mean, they stripped him naked.

They whipped his ass. They beat this dude nearly unconscious because he stole from me, and I was working for somebody else. So it's really based on the reputation of who you're working for. You know, you could get beaten. But at the same time, they're going to pay, and they're going to pay severely. They're not going to play with them. If you got, you know, and if you're lying,

you're going to get your ass whipped as a little kid. They're going to get other little kids your peers to whip you. in the neighborhood, but that never happened because I was a type of kid that had extreme moral values. Like, I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. So I'd stealing and lying, it just wasn't even in my, it wasn't in me. You know, my whole thing was to sell and turn the money in

and be good at what I did. So I was trustworthy, so it was never a doubt or whether or not if I got robbed or whatever. And if you did get robbed, like, you know, everybody knew in the neighborhood, the world would travel. It wasn't no secret. So it only happened to me one time

And that dude He paid for and he paid for severely And you know That's just how it was You know, there was rules and there was a code And that that code was enforced You know, about the people in the neighborhood That was the drug dealers

At that age, how are you spending the money? Clothes, riding around And in town cars Yeah, I used to say my girlfriend At that time which I was a freshman I was, well, when I first started at 13, I wasn't a freshman, but a year later, I was a freshman in high school at John Bound High School when I had a girlfriend. And she was a senior, and I would send her to her to and from school every day in the town car. And I would go to and from school every day in the town call myself.

My parents didn't know. And, you know, obviously they thought we were taking the bus and I'd go up the block and take a town car. Excuse me. When did your parents start to notice? Because you said that they moved you to a bus. Atlanta once you started to go down that path as a teenager. Yeah. We ran away from school.

I mean, we ran away from home. Excuse me. We ran away because my parents knew I was up to some and wanted to get me out in New York. Well, my mother really hated New York anyway. She's from New York, but she hated it because she hated the cold. And she had family in the South. So they kind of knew we was up to something. They never really caught us.

They never really found drugs on me. but we ran away from home because she said that they were moving us to Georgia and back then Atlanta to a New Yorker was like another country it was in the south it was slow it was country

you was a country bumpkin if you was from the south or if you was in the south and like so that was the worst thing in the world so at that age we kind of thought and most kids kind of think that your friends that you have are the only friends in the world and if you move out of the neighborhood and you lose your friends

you're never going to be happy again. So that was a total alarm bells. It was a disaster when they found out. You knew when us to draw? Like, we had to all the way down south. So we ran away from, I ran away from home. And my other two friends that I told you about earlier, they ran away from home too.

And we was living with the dude who we were selling drugs for, we was living with his grandfather. And so, you know, my parents just found out, you know, kind of the word of mouth, who we were staying with, And, you know, a whole thing happened where they convinced us to come back, and we came back, and then my older cousins was at the house. When we came there, and they wouldn't let us leave.

And it was crazy. It was like, it's funny to say, because it's almost like they kidnapped us, but how can your parents kidnap you? So we came to the house, our older cousins was there, and they literally took us to the airport that night, and flew us to Atlanta, and the rest was history. Why do you think it was so acceptable for kids to sell drugs? Except, like when you say acceptable. For instance, that the grandfather, who's house, you were. of that guy. He must have known what you guys were doing, right? What the relationship was. You know what? That's a good question. I have to literally think about it right now,

because I never even looked at it that way. Because the guy that we were selling drugs for, you know, like I said, he was 18, at least. And we were 13. And it's not like we were staying in the daytime, but we were just coming there to sleep at night. And I have no idea. You know, I don't really know if his, what he told his grandfather, because if you really think about it, not as you say it. Like, you know, and I think my mother did bring that up before. Like, what the hell was he telling his grandfather to say, I got these three 13-year-old kids that's going to sleep here at night?

Really didn't make any sense. In today's world, that wouldn't fly. It wouldn't fly, you know? So good question. I got to ask my friend Joe, you know, what does he think? because, you know, I don't know. Did his grandfather know he was selling drugs? Because he didn't bring us home to his crib, you know.

He had his own place? Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm not. He was probably still living with his mom and his brothers. I don't think the dad was there. But I remember specifically we didn't go to his place. He had a sister. He had a younger brother.

So, but his younger brother was our age. And he was selling drugs with us. But he took us to the grandfathers, which was out in Jamaica, Queens. We didn't stay in Bayside, which was just right around the car. from our house. So I don't know the answer to that. I don't know if it was acceptable or if his grandfather was just like,

they're all people out there. It's like, fucking my grand kid is selling drugs, he's selling drugs. And, you know, I was quite a long time ago. I truly don't know the answer to that.

So you get to Atlanta, what happens? You know, so I'm in Atlanta. I'm 15 years old. You know, I'm going to school in Atlanta. I'm in the magnet program at Thoreau High School in Southwest Atlanta,

the SWATs. You know, once again, a good kid, I got good parents. You know, I'm on a debate team. I'm on the mock trial team. You know, I went to the magnet program for law and government in Atlanta. I was a good kid, you know, so I went to school.

I was doing good at debate. I was one of the best in the state. I was really good at mock trial. One of the best in the state. Ended up getting into one of the top colleges in the country, Emory University. They called it to Harvard of the South. I went there not because I had fantastic grades.

I mean, you know, don't get it wrong. I was a brilliant kid. I was never stupid. But I was smoking weed. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't, like, totally dedicated to school. I had bad study habits. But I was able to do good enough, and I excelled in debate and in mock trials. So, you know, at Emory, I was able to get into their program because most universities

will have a program, you know, for one or two kids that excelled in certain areas, whether it's sports or whether or not it was debate or what have you, where they can get you in, even if you don't have a, you know, a perfect SAT score, even if you're a, you're a, scores were not perfect. In my instance, or in my, you know, in my instance,

it was because Emory University had the largest debate team in the country, but they would not, they didn't have a lot of blacks, just to be quite frankly, so they needed, you know,

to have more blacks, you know, they needed to have more minorities on their debate team. And I was really, really good. Coming from, from Tharo,

which was an all-black high school in Atlanta, and I was mentored by some people who, you know, made a significant, impact on my life when I was a child and also as I was an adult. Coma Yates and Sally went on and become assistant attorney general. She was United States Attorney, she was United States

Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia for the United States Attorney's Office for the Northern District of Georgia. She went on to become the Assistant Attorney General under Eric Holden and she went on to become the acting attorney general and was the first person to be fired by Trump. It was people like her and people like Coma Yates, people like Ron Dixon, who helped us out, who put in their time and effort that help us out in the mock trial program. And so they made an impact on my life. You know, I had good parents.

You know, I should have went to school and become a, you know, a renowned attorney because I was really, really good at it. I always spoke good. And it was something that I excelled in and something that I loved. I really have no excuse and some of the choices that I made and so I accept that I take full ownership of it and responsibility

obviously we're going to get into it as the purpose that I was here but you know I got into trouble in high school because that law of being popular messing around and playing in the streets I didn't start selling drugs again immediately when I got to Atlanta

but I did end up getting back into selling that crack that never really I, you know, I didn't, I knew crack was bad. And I never used crack anything like that. And at this point in time, you know, I'm a little older. I know, you know, and because of my experiences in New York, I know there's a destructive force of nature. And I know that some people, when they use it, they get addicted and it could ruin their

whole life, ruin families, all of that. I understand this now. But I didn't really sell crack. You know, I did dabbling when I got to Atlanta on a couple of occasions, but I got into selling weed. Primarily, I was selling weed in high school. And, you know, I sold in high school just to have extra money in my pocket. Nothing like on any large scales. So, you know, I went through school. I got into school. I got into fights. You know, I was a popular kid, all of that type of stuff. Messed with the music industry again,

wanted to be a rapper, all that type of stuff. I ended up graduating. I went to college and then, you know, funny as it is, when I got into college, when I got to Emory University, I was actually at Oxford of Emory University as a freshman, which is the original birthplace of Emory. And I went there, which then I was supposed to transition after two years. You spent two years there, and then you could transition into the main campus. And kids that went to there normally went there either because they might have felt, even though you was accepted in the Emory,

they might have felt that you needed a smaller environment. Maybe your grades was not the best. Maybe you didn't have that perfect SAT score, but you were still in Emery. And it was a smaller campus, and then you would go to the main campus after a couple of years. I never made it to the main campus. But as I told you earlier, I was recruited by Emery to be on the debate team, and I was on the debate team. But I actually ended up really taking my weed game. Connor, that's when I really started turning up, not turning up to like the levels that I got to.

But doing more that I did when I was in high school, because I was around kids that, whether they were in, you know, fraternities or I was around kids that had a lot more money than I had. I was around rich kids. I was around kids that had the means. When we was in high school, we was always focused in on getting $10 to $20, splitting it. Sometimes that was a chore to get $20 just to be able to buy a $20, $20 bag of weed. Oh, when I was selling weed, I was mostly selling it to make a little bit of money.

But nothing major, also to have free weed to smoke. I wasn't really making no noise in high school with the weed scene. But when I got to college, I started making more money because I was around kids that had the means to be able to buy way more. They were buying way more than what we was ever able to afford. And they was buying that just to smoke. And I was able to see my mind was getting stretched. I'm seeing more and more things. And I'm seeing everybody smokes weed.

And no matter what race you are, what color, that was always the neutralizer or the equalizer. That would bring everybody together from all races. Boy and girl, black, white, Hispanic, Jewish. Asian, it didn't really matter. If you were smoking weed, you were smoking weed in college and you was having fun, who was at the college parties. And I became that guy that got weed for everybody. Started selling to the fraternity, started selling to everybody.

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Join Blu Chu's mission to upgrade humanity one thrust of the time. Head to BluCoo.com for details and safety info. And big thanks to Bluchu for sponsoring the podcast. If you had stayed in New York, what do you think the outcome would have been? Do you think you would have ended up in college too? Probably not. Me, moving to Atlanta was the best thing that my parents ever did to me, moving to Georgia, because we didn't technically.

moved to Atlanta, but I went to school in Atlanta, and, you know, I was outside of Atlanta, the metropolitan area in Jonesboro, Clayton County. But I tell my parents all the time. We hated when we moved to Georgia, but it was the best thing for me. Number one, I love Atlanta. That's my home. That, even though I was grounded, like in my formative years in New York, the New York never came out of me. Moving up in Atlanta, I mean, moving to Georgia and growing up in Atlanta and experiencing that, it gave me a broader scope, a broader scale. I think it's good. good for people to be able to live more than one place because if you stay in one place, you kind of think that's all it is.

And then especially in New York, a lot of New Yorkers are arrogant. They think New York is top of the food chain just when it comes to human beings. They're smart and everybody else, fastening everybody else. And I can understand why New Yorkers think that a lot of times because in New York, especially at that time, you're the fashion capital of the world. It's the most diverse place in the United States. Not necessarily in the world. I used to think it was.

But since I've traveled, I realized it was the most diverse place in the United States, maybe one of the most diverse places in the world because they had so many people there. So you had access to different cultures, a different way of doing things, so that would lead you to believe that you're faster, better, smarter than anybody else. It's not true.

People just have different accents. But if I would have stayed in New York to answer your question, my fear is that I would have probably became a drug kingpin, probably wouldn't have went to school and probably might have ended up getting a life sentence. Maybe I wouldn't have ended up selling weed or maybe I would have.

but the influence and the crack, the cocaine was close by. Like I told you earlier, I had people through marriage. That was my family. They were Kingpins. So there's no doubt in my mind that I would have escalated. I would have leveled up or scaled up faster than you could imagine. And there's no telling what could have happened. It just scares me just to think about what would have happened if I were to stay to New York.

My parents, it was the best move for me. I'm happy. And they allowed to this day, and I thank them for that. They knew what was best. And truly it was best. Get me out of New York. So tell us how you started to build the business in college. Well, in college, I, you know, like I said, I started becoming the guy that got the

weed for everybody. Simply put, I just came. I had connections in Atlanta. I smoked weed. Everybody was smoking weed. Not everybody, but I was hanging around all the people that were smoking weeds. So I ended up bringing my weed from Atlanta on a few occasions. And it was just better than what anybody else could get on the country.

campus. A lot of times those other students were not from Georgia, or even if they were from Georgia, they couldn't get the weed that I could get. I was getting weed from the Jamaicans in the western area, and I would bring it back, and it was the best weed by far. So then, you know, they just ended up giving me their money to go pick up weave for everybody. I would imagine, I don't know if you went to college and that, but you can imagine, you know, how it is. So I started off getting weed for everybody. And then I would just get it at one price and sell it to them at a lot high price, basically double or triple or whatever it was. And then they just started giving me so much money. First, I just started going by in a little bit, maybe an ounce. I can come back and sell that.

Maybe this person wanted, you know, to get a quarter ounce or a 50 or whatever it was. I don't remember the exact nature, but then eventually that turned into maybe a quarter pound. I got enough money to buy a quarter pound. And then I'm able to buy that and I'm able to, you know, come back and settle to them for double. And then that just, one thing just led to another. Then the people that the fraternity. Next thing I'm I'm dealing with the people that's the heads of the fraternities. So now they're selling everybody at the fraternities. Now they're starting to grow. So now they sell them to the people on the main campus at the fraternity. So one thing led to another. I went from getting the house to getting a quarter pound to maybe getting a pound,

maybe a couple pounds. But nothing too massive, but it was way bigger than what I had been doing when I was in high school. You know, they lending me their car. When I say they, I really mean one Asian cat in particular. I'm not going to put his name out there. But he was super rich. He was from Korea. You know, his family was massively rich to his father. His grandfather, they owned, like,

from what I understand, airports and insurance companies in Korea. The dude was crazy rich. So, you know, I had my little car, which was like a Volkswagen bug, and I would go back and forth to Atlanta, and then I realized, no, I got to take your car.

Maybe something happened to my car, whatever. I forgot the exact reason, but I ended up getting his car. I would take his car and spend the whole day in Atlanta and come back. You know, the first couple times

I took it, he'd always be nervous because, you know, You don't have beepers and cell phones and all that back then. They just had to wait for me to get back. But, you know, after a little bit of time pass, that just became, you know, paul for the course. They knew I was going to take the car. I was going to be going to be going to come back.

I was going to show up with the weed and everybody. I was going to be happy. But, you know, I was having a hell of a good time taking his Mercedes-Benz and stunting all over Atlanta into Benz like it was mine. I had never drove a Benz before or anything like that. So that was good. So that was kind of like how it happened in college. But, you know, so that I was.

good and it was fun, but I didn't finish college at that time because I was having too much fun and making too much money. And no, I wasn't concentrating on my grades. And so I ended up not staying at Emory after one year just because I was fucking around. I was getting high. I was, you know, I was doing everything I wasn't supposed to be doing. I had an off-campus house at one point that I was renting a little five points, which is in Atlanta. And I was doing that because I was spending more time in Atlanta than I was spending on campus because I just started making money by second semester. And then in my mind, I was just like, school really became like, it was just in the way. It was a major distraction and it was a waste of time because I started wanting to,

I wanted to really turn up on the weed scene. And at the same time, so I was friends with Liljohn at the time. The rapper? The rapper. He was a really good friend of mine. He was my boy to this day. and so I was once again I was back trying to do the whole music industry thing but I was doing the music industry thing but I'm still trying to be in the streets because back then it's still real early in the music industry

and this is when really the music industry was blown up on the scene in Atlanta and Lil John was a major part of that so we were friends like like a long time ago before he really became like one of the biggest stars, entertainment stars in the universe, it was little John, my friend.

And he was the best DJ in Atlanta, you know, bar none. And he always had a knack for being able to play to the crowd and play the music that the crowd wanted to hear. So he was the best hip-hop DJ. He was the best reggae DJ. And then when the house started getting popular, he was the best house DJ. So, like, you know how it is when people would think,

oh, this person they blew up overnight. Nah, nah with a little John. He was always the best DJ in Atlanta, and he can control any crowd, so he would rock the dance hall clubs. He would rock the hip-hop clubs. The Jamaicans loved them.

The Ethiopians loved them. The reggae music, he was doing it all, and he was my friend. So, along a short story, I'll just give you a little bit of the background. I was one of the original creators of Black Mark and Entertainment, which is the label that John and Searcy and Rob and Vince, Shout out to those guys.

We're all still friends to this day. We started that label together. And because of me and my law for the streets, I wasn't in it. I couldn't really see the vision like those guys could see the vision. So I was still fucking around trying to be like little John used to say,

you little John Gotti, your little John Gotti. That's what he used to call me because I had the influence of John Gotti, which was a mobster from New York. I had that influence, and that's where I wanted to be. Just truth be told.

I wanted to be John Gotti. You know, I wanted to be the black John Gotti. And so I was always still trying to hustle, you know. And those guys, they saw the vision that I didn't see. And that's why we didn't grow together. My cousin, you know, my cousin ended up getting shot. My cousin was hustling with me. And he ended up getting shot at that time.

He's alive to this day. My cousin, Tymo, you know, we call him Ty. And, you know, shout out to Ty, but he got. shot in his stomach, somebody tried to take us out. That's a whole other story. But he got shot in his stomach, close range by a pump shotgun, you know, six feet of his intestines was hanging out. But he lived and they tried, it was really a hit on me and he was there with me. So him trying to help me and save me, he ended up, he ended up taking that bullet, you know, and they tried, they tried to hit me next, but I had a bat in my hand. It was a little struggling and I, you know,

The dude was bigger than me, and I took the bat, and I threw the bat, and me throwing that bat made the shotgun, made him, you know, go up with, and so the shotgun, and as I threw it, I also ran, ducked down and ran at the same time, and so the blast missed me, and then the next blast hit my cousin. And so when that happened, I'm still in a gangster mindset. So even though we started this thing with Liljohn, and then when we supposed to have this label, Black Mark and Entertainment, I'm thinking in my mind, I'm going to read it.

group, I'm going to go back to my roots. So I leave Atlanta and go back to New York. Really thinking, I don't really know what's going on. I don't know who it came from. So I'm thinking I'm going to go up here. I'm going to regroup and I'm going to come back and I'm going to knock this dude's head off. So when I leave, little John and then, they're not fucking around in the streets like me. They just know I left. I didn't tell anybody anything. I just disappeared. I'm going for approximately three months. When I come back, them dudes was working with Social Deaf. And they became Social Def's street promotion team. And Little John then became, he became the end all for Social Def. And then one thing led to another. And then they, you know,

they ended up doing their own label and having their own artisan. Like I told you, the rest is history. So there's no love loss. I got mad love for those guys. Obviously, they, you know, they did their thing. Those are good dudes. Little John is one of the best. And that's it to answer your question. I know it might have been a little long winded sometime I am, but that's how I happened. Why was there a hip put on you? So it was crazy. So I was I was fucking with this cat. He was from New Orleans. He was he was a psycho really. Dude is is as real a psychopath when I look back at it. I was selling weed for him. And whenever I saw weed, I just always did good at it. I always excelled at it. Really, I'm just a good business mind, you know. So whatever I put my mind to

wherever you put your focus, wherever your focus lies, you're going to excel in that. Just so happened, My mind was focused on becoming a street millionaire in weed, which eventually I did. But I was selling for this dude, making a lot of money for him. But I ended up getting linked, I ended up linking up with this Jamaican cat, and I ended up rocking with the Jamaicans, and I stopped selling for this dude, and this dude was just literally a psycho. So back then, like, really, he just was just mad that I stopped selling weed for him

and started selling to someone else. So in his mind, I guess he kind of thought like he owned me, or once I started selling with him, I couldn't sell for no one else. And this dude literally put a hit out on me. It's crazy as hell. That's what happened. What did it mean to you to be the black John Gotti?

You know, y'all, like I was torn between two worlds because, you know, I had an extreme moral compass. But at the same time, there was something about that power, you know, something about that gangster shit, some about that street life that I just realized. really love, you know, even though I had a moral compass, I knew right from long, and I never really,

you know, don't get me wrong, I wasn't a violent guy, you know, it was a few episodes where violence had to happen, but it wasn't me. Anytime it was violence, it was because it was self-defense or it was just based on something that, you know, the influence on me thinking that's how you got to handle business growing up, which was negative influence and it was bad. But at a young age, you know, we all do things that we regret or that we're sorry for, but what it meant to me to be the black John God is like, in my mind, I just wanted to just, you know, I wanted to make millions of dollars and whatever I was doing,

and I wanted to just be on a level. I wanted to control my own destiny, and I wanted to be powerful, you know, and I wanted to be powerful based on money and based on, you know, drugs, but, you know, for me it was marijuana. I was able to sell weed and take it to that next level because I never in my mind thought that weed was something that was bad. Especially once I started locking with the rosters, you know, they would always be like, you know, they would quote scriptures in the Bible, and they would be like, it's an herb, it's grown, you know, job, give it to us, job guidance. And honestly, I really believe that, and I believe that to this day.

They would always talk about the herbs and medicinal qualities and medicinal purpose. And I never, you know, Bob Marley and this and that, and I never really thought we was long. So I really just thought, no, it's really the government that's just fucked up. like people should not be going to prison for marijuana. And the fact that I ended up going to prison and while I'm there, different states is legalizing weed in my mind kind of justified because I went to prison and I got a long sentence

and it, you know, it did damage to my family as it does damage to anyone's family when the breadwinner and the man of the house, the husband is taken out of the household and locked away. when there's a place for prison, there's a place for people that need to be in prison.

I get that, taken out of society. But the way the government sold it back then, as if you was some type of demon or you was a serious predicate to society, a danger to society, a threat to society that needed to be removed. It was all propaganda and it was nonsense. People never should have been getting that type of time

for marijuana. So in my mind, I always looked at it like a justification like I'm not doing nothing bad. I almost looked at it like me and anyone else that was selling marijuana was a victim of the system, of the government, locking people up and creating this whole narrative that marijuana was some demon drug that was so bad. We all know that that's nonsense now.

And that's why I'm really a, you know, I would say I really, I'm someone, the proper word is escaping me, but I'm an advocate for, the total legalization of marijuana. And if you're in prison, state crime, marijuana crime, federal marijuana crime, if it's nonviolent, somebody should step up. The governor's for the state, the president, and give a blanket pardon. If you don't want to give a pardon because people knew what they were doing when they broke the law,

I knew I was breaking the law, I couldn't have made the money that I was making if it was not illegal, but let some of these people come home to their families. The government is basically admitted now. People should not be locked away and taken out of society. removed from their family for selling marijuana, commute the sentence if you don't want to give them a full pardon. Trump is probably the only one that would have the balls or the conviction to let people out, as we know,

as we know, is only the president that can give people a pardon or a commentation for federal crimes. But there's a lot of people. Nonviolent offenders that's been in prisons that has been given decades behind bars are years longer than what they should have gotten. Admittedly, they broke the law. maybe they should pay because you knew it was a criminal act,

but let some of these people home. And that's why I look up to President Trump, because he has so much, he has, whether you agree with him or you don't agree with him. He has the confidence and the conviction to do what he thinks is right. Like I've never seen a president like this man. Biden didn't have the guts to do it. I've never seen someone, whether it's right along to you, to me. It's not up for me to judge a man's heart or to know why he did something.

or to know what it is a person's true motivations. But what I look up to, what I admire about President Trump, is that if he says he's going to do something, he's going to do it. And if he believes in something, he's going to do it. And, you know, that's why I make a plea to him. Look at some of these cases, as he's already done, and I give him credit, and I thank him. Some of these people that's in prison don't deserve to still be in prison. And he's the type of president that can get it done.

And, you know, I'm stopped from doing so many things, even though I've come home and I've done community outreach. I try and give back. I try and let people know that just because you've made a mistake in your life, that should not define you. And it doesn't have to define you because the book is not over. There's more chapters to be written to your story. So if you made a mistake like I did, I own it.

I was doing something was illegal. But we don't here in America believe that people should be punished for the rest of their lives. If you've done something and you're sorry for it, I believe you should be given a second chance. America is the home of second chances. And that's why I'm making that plea. And I'm urging and I'm imploring President Trump to look into some of these cases

and get people back home to their families. But to answer your question, and I know once again, it's kind of a long way to get to the point, but it meant to me, like, you know, I watch stories like a Bronx tale and, you know, these different influences that I had, And I wanted that power.

I'm not going to lie. I didn't want to hurt people. I didn't ever want to kill nobody. It never did. But I wanted to be the biggest, I wanted to be the biggest weed dealer in America. And I didn't become that, but maybe I was one of them.

I probably got close. Maybe not the biggest, but I did my share. But, you know, so I wanted to control my own destiny. I wanted to have power. So I wanted to be like John Gotti from that perspective. How do your parents react to you leaving college?

they were not happy but I was in and I was out just like the podcast in and out podcast whatever gee I was in and I was out so I always had it in me that I needed to go back to school so when I didn't go back to Emory

and it was only because and it's funny because when I went to Emory my father had sold his house that we had owned for years in New York and because he sold his house he didn't really make so much money he made

because of the money that my father made, I should have been able to get financial aid when I went to Emory because I didn't get a scholarship because my grades wasn't already there. But they wanted me there because I was really good at debate, so they recruited me to be there.

So the deal really was, if we could pay the first year, if I could just get my grades up by the next year, they'd get me into some type of scholarship program, but I needed to do the right thing for the first year, get my grades up, and then they could get me academic support

based on the fact that I was on the debate team. But my father really didn't make enough money at that time to pay $16,000. You know, this is early 90s. This was a lot of money back then. But he said he was so important to him for me to get the best education possible that he paid, sacrificed and paid for me to go the first year. And if I was stuck to my end of the bargain, he wasn't supposed to have to pay the next year.

Well, I didn't stick to my end of the bargain because I didn't get the appropriate grades. So he was like, I can't pay. I cannot pay again for you to go. So, and then because my grades wasn't there, it wasn't able to get me, it was like if you get at least 3.5 up, we can get you, you know, academic scholarship. But I didn't keep the mind of the bargain.

So, you know, it was a tremendous disappointment and embarrassment to me that I was able to get into this fantastic school and not do my end of the bargain. And it's funny because I always been the type of kid that wanted to help my father. If I knew in my mind, mine because I'm around kids at Emory, Oxford of Emory, that had so much money, they didn't

have any financial issues. But I'm, you know, they couldn't really give me a lot of money every semester, but they gave me what I needed, don't get me wrong. But still, as an 18-year-old, I wanted to have more. And I was around kids that had so much on their vacations, they would go, they would take these, you know, elaborate trips, expensive trips, and I just wanted to have more money. I'm making more money as I'm selling weed. One of the things that I wanted to relieve from my father was.

just, you know, finances and having to help me out because although he didn't mean it, and our parents at the time didn't mean it, they'd always let you know, we are not rich, and, you know, there was always, finances was kind of always like a little struggle, and they would let you know how much it cost, and I felt bad that he spent this amount of money for me to go to school, and then I fucked it off because of my behavior, because of what I did, it was a tremendous, tremendous disappointment to him, and it really bothered me. It was all my conscience, so I would, I would jump back in school. I'd go to Clayton State and then I'd fuck around and fail out and I'm not really doing well.

But just to be in school, they would know I'm back in school. I'm back in college. I would kind of hide the fact that I'm not really going. I had the intention to doing well, but I'm partying. I'm smoking weed. I'm making money. And this is happening more and more and more. Where really I'm just thinking to myself, I'm kind of justifying it.

Like school is, like I said, at that point, school is becoming a distraction to the street life. Not the street life is a distracting to school. I'm justifying in my own mind like this is a waste of time I can make enough money back to John Gotti scenario I can make enough money

where I don't need school fuck I need school for I can go to school later I'm supposed to go to law school but I'm thinking I already know because I'm a small kid I'm average price of a lawyer

is average average salary of a lawyer out of school is this I'm making more than that so why I want to be a lawyer so on my mind I'm thinking I'm going to make enough money I'm going to make millions.

I'm going to parlay that. I'm going to open up all the businesses. I'm going to get all legal. And, you know, and it's going to be a great American story. As you know, it didn't turn out that way. This episode is brought to you by prize picks. You and I make decisions every day, but on prize picks, being right can get you paid. Don't miss any of the excitement the season on prize picks where it's good to be right.

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My dude, he was nicknamed Kid. He was from, he was from Port Royal, Kingston One. He was a roster without the dreds. They said that's, Kingston One is Port Royal, Home of the Pirates. Kid got the Connects to really help me start bringing my business to the whole next level. I had somebody else on my podcast, In-N-Out podcast by Eric G. So I had him on my podcast a few weeks ago or maybe a few months ago. And we was talking about he brought up the topic of how your mind, when your mind gets stretched.

And basically when your mind gets stretched, it's based on exposure, right? Because everything in life, I believe, is based on exposure. When you get exposed to certain things, now you're able to see, you're able to dream, you're able to know what is possible. based on, you know, the exposure that you've seen, and that can come in a myriad of different forms. And that's what we understand. When I say we, people that know that have been exposed, that have experienced life.

And that's why we understand. People are not born, you know, depending on race or wherever, any different than anyone else, like people are people. You know, everything, for the most part, I believe, is based on exposure. And your mind can be stretched. to such a capacity based on an exposure, excuse me,

based on an exposure, your mind can be stretched like a hula hoop. And that's what we're talking about on the podcast. It can be stretched to where it will never go back. Once the genie is out the bottom, once you've been exposed or something, and once you see it, and you know what's possible,

you want that. So I started, this was the beginning. The first beginning was going to that college and seeing how much money you can make and how much money people had. I didn't have friends like that in my community that grew up as millionaires. Their parents were millionaires.

They never wanted a shit. I didn't have that. Going to college was the first step. Me and Kid was another step. And there was some other steps in between also. Like I told you, my influences in New York, I seen drug dealers make millions of dollars, but I didn't know anyone personally in my community

that made that type of money. And it was still distant. I knew they was making that money, but my parents, yeah, we'd be around them at, family gatherings and cookouts and eateries, but they didn't want me around them all the time because my mom, they knew what they were doing. They didn't know if I knew what they was doing,

but we knew because the streets knew. They knew who my family was, you know, and they rang bells all over. So we knew as kids, but my parents didn't know. That's one story. So now this is another opportunity where I meet my dude. And now he's giving me weed, and he's front of me weed, and he's giving me weed.

I never really had it like that. so he's introducing me to a whole other level and so he's he's hooked up because of who he is who's in his family me and kid we're the same age but you know now he's got this pipeline where you know at the time I'm really thinking that the weed is coming from Jamaica maybe some of it was a little bit

because weed at that time was coming from Jamaica and they probably did get some weed in from Jamaica but that wasn't the real link the real link was the weed was coming from Cali and it was through his people that was older than him the rosters and the people that he was messing with that was connected to, you know, I don't know if these dudes were shower posse or, you know, the Jamaican boys or whoever they were,

but they were big and they were major and they were dealing, they were sending it from Cali is where it was really coming from. And I come to find out later, I'm thinking it's coming from the Jamaicans because that's why I'm getting it from. But now the Jamaicans that was big at this time, they was really linked to a Migo. They was linked to a Mexican that was bringing it in from Mexico. this is when you're getting the bales of weed and the 22-pound bales that was either coming from Arizona through the area of Mexico,

which is closest to Arizona, or is coming in through Cali. So that's where he was getting it from, from his boys, and they were shipping it to him. And as me and him became better friends, I started really seeing, you know, I started seeing how this pipeline happened. So he started giving me weed in Atlanta,

he started funding to me. So I had way more than I can buy. And he's giving it to me on a level to where is now I can employ other people. They goes back to the John Gotti. So now I'm looking at not just me selling wheat, but I'm looking at employing other people to sell wheat. And I got it at a price and a quality that not many people had, you know, at my age. I'm sure there was some people that had it at my age.

But I didn't know any of them. What was the price? Back then at that age, at that time, I'm guessing weed, I'm getting it for six, maybe $650. $650. A pound. That's cheap. That's cheap.

At that age. I mean, at that time, especially because I know I'm weed at that time, you know, and a lot of time has passed by, but I'm probably selling it between $1,200 and $1,200. And then I start, you know, as a couple years past, I start going out of state, and I'm getting between $1,400 to $1,600 in places like, West Virginia, Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, Charleston, West Virginia. That's where I call my case. But even in Atlanta, I'm knocking their head off.

I mean, I'm getting weed. I'm getting weed that people wasn't getting at that price. And I'm getting as much as I can move. How would it come to you? Well, at first it would come to me. I wasn't getting it in. Kier was getting it in, but he was my guy. So he would give it to me, and he would give it to me in pounds.

But, you know, we probably started with five at a time. then we go on to 10. I mean, I'm making shit disappear like lightning, you know, so, so much so. So he would get it in and they were sending it in through the mail. Back then, you know, we getting money so you can get a lot of stuff in the mail, UPS, FedEx, Postal, however they're getting it. They were getting in, he would give it to me. But then we would send the money back.

We could send, you could send 20, 30, 40,000, $40,000, Western Union. You didn't even have to show ID. So that's how they get the money got. but it was always, you know, things was always changing. But back then at that particular time, when I first got introduced to him, that's how he was doing it. He was getting in there. He was getting in constantly.

Then he started getting it in. Well, Maryland was one way, but another way, they had girls. Don't fit the description, real beautiful girls. They were getting in on an airplane. They were bringing in literally on a plane. They were carriage in their luggage. They would just check the bag. You just had to find somebody that had a credit card or even if they didn't have a credit card.

It wasn't really a thing. Like, it was just so easy to do it. You didn't really even have to have ID to buy your plane ticket. And they would get it in, and they would bring it in in suitcases. They would check their bag. You know, they had away. They would just, you know, they would just check the bag, and they would just bring it. And they would just give it to me.

I wasn't involved in transportation or anything at that immediate time. But I was getting rid of a lot of weed, and I was putting a lot of people on. Because I had the best weed, you know, at that time, green, red hair, sensi, fire. We had it. And at that time, it was the Jamaicans. It wasn't as many Mexicans in Atlanta. So it was really the Jamaicans that was one thing on the weed tip. And the Jamaicans had a reputation.

In New York, they had it in Miami. And it was a growing reputation in Atlanta. And the reputation was one of extreme violence. You didn't fuck with them. You know, and so they was running the weed scene at that time. They used to get a lot of weed in from Jamaica. But, you know, it kind of segued into, because I think the United States started locking them.

down on weed coming from Jamaica, and then it seguesed into the Mexicans getting in the majority of the weed. They were just getting in right over the border, like I said, either coming through Tijuana or coming through, you know, the California border or the Arizona border. Did you ever experience any violence with them? I did not experience any violence with them, but I knew about it. And, you know, we used to run around, especially particularly in the western area, which is the AU Center, where Atlanta is where I was in Atlanta, I was in the Southwest Swats, which was right near the AU Center. So, you know, we was all, we walked around, we was gadded up, you know.

We walk around like we owned Atlanta. And, you know, I was just associated with the Jamaican, you know, or with all Jamaicans. You know, that was our crew. So it was me and it was kid and it was my, it was my, you know, I had, I would always keep either very, very close friends or my brother or my first cousins around me. That was kind of like I clicked. and, you know, I was putting everybody on, and, you know, I knew a lot of people. There was no real, real violence.

I mean, I knew of them dudes committing violence, you know, and I had a lot of juice based on the fact that I made dudes a lot of money. So, you know, if it needed to happen, it could happen. But I ain't going to say that, you know, with them directly, it never really needed to happen. Because, number one, I was always good with business. And I was honest, so I was never into these stories that other people would be into where they, you know, fake like something happened to the money. If something happened with the money, it didn't even matter.

If somebody ran off on me or owed me money, they was going to see that money. Because I was always good with money, because an older dude always told me when I was younger, the key to big dudes getting big was saving. So I was always a safer. So I would always stack my money. I wasn't always into being flashy and all that nonsense.

I always had the same. Fuck the flash. I just want the cash. So I would always save my money, and I was always stacking money on top of money. so if I ended up losing, they would never know about it anyway. So there was never a reason for there to be violence, the threat of violence, because I didn't turn into money.

I turned into money. And then I was always looking to build my money so I could buy cash so I can get a lower price. And then they would always give me. So I was always on that trajectory. My arrow was always pointing up because some people believe, and I never believed in this, I think it was nonsense when people would do it. They never wanted to pay for anything. They just always wanted you to front them, front them, front them, front them, front them, front them.

I just always believed in with the control of my own destiny. So you can front me, but at the same time, I'm going to always buy also. Then I always believe, you know, back then a dude is always going to charge you a high price if he's fronting you. Well, I would always want to buy so I can get the best price possible. So I was always negotiating to get a better price to buy more weed. And then, of course, they always wanted to give me all weed because they already knew it was like magic. When they gave me the weed, it was going to disappear. You know, I was the fastest disappearing act with that weed that you could imagine.

I make shit disappear like lightning. Now, this money you're making from this business, where is that going? I'm saving it. I'm just saving it. I'm stacking it, stacking it, stacking it. I'm not putting in a bank. I'm saving it to buy more weed. You know, I bought some clothes.

I had some nice clothes, but I wasn't even a flashy dude. I've been had money to buy all of the hot, the high, you know, the fancy cars. I had money to buy the fly shit years before I actually got it. I didn't believe in jury. I didn't believe in none of that. Because what I believed in was just keeping a super low profile and being invisible. So, you know, I just wanted to make more and more money. I got off, you know, it was almost like an orgasm.

You know, I got off on seeing my money glow. You know, first time I seen 10,000, then 20, then 50, then 100. You know, you always have these benchmarks. in your mind, at least I did, and I know other people that did, of how much you could save, and then you'd be a right. But then you make it so fast, you'd be like, no, I'm not all right. If I can make this, I can make that. So for me, I just wanted to just see that money grow.

And, you know, you'd lose money here and there, the people don't pay. I mean, that's part of course. I mean, there was instances of some violence where you had to teach a dude a lesson. But, you know, I never really liked it. True, I had to do it a couple of times just because dudes didn't pay, but that never really was me. You know, so I would really, you know, I don't even really want to get into it too much,

but, so that's what I did. I never really bought, you know, I had cars, but I would have cars that are unassuming cars. Like, I'd have cars, like, for the money I was made. Oh, a lot of money got spent in the strip club. At least you're honest. I was a strip club hole. I was in the strip clubs, and I was in the strip clubs every day.

Why strip clubs? Because I love seeing naked women, you know, and I love, you know, that's what I love. Atlanta's home with the strip club, and if you ain't been to the strip club in Atlanta, and you're someone, when I say you, Ian, you or anyone else that's watching this show, there ain't no question about it.

Atlanta's home with the strip club. Miami's dope, too, but nobody could fuck with Atlanta. And I found that out when I was at, that's one of the things I loved about Atlanta, and that's what everybody love about Atlanta when they come. You see some of the most beautiful women that you ever seen in your life in Atlanta strip clubs. You want a wife from when you see them.

And so I got addicted, literally, to the lifestyle, the lifestyle and the strip club and the strip club was part of the lifestyle. So, you know, you treated like a kin when you're going there. You're dropping the type of money I'm dropping at a young age. We're talking 20, 21 years old. I'm going in there and I'm blowing money fast.

And I'm enjoying it. So, you know, I'm making money every day, but I'm literally in the strip club every single fucking day. You know, I'm in there at lunchtime. You know, that's the real, the real Gs and the real cast that really understand. The real players is in there in the daytime. That's when you can get more action. That's when you can pay less.

that's when you can get them to sit down and talk to you for longer because there's so much more competition at nighttime because that's when dudes is in there. But the real players isn't there doing the daytime at lunchtime. In Atlanta, the strip clubs open at 12, at, you know, at 12 noon. So, you know, you're going in there, they got good food, they got wings. I'm not conscious of eating healthy or anything like that then. I'm going in there eating fried foods all day long.

I'm smoking married. I can do what I want because I'm spending major money. I'm blowing money fast. Like I said, the women know I'm, they know who I am. You know, back then I was Big E. You know, so I'm coming in there. I'm spending a lot of money. I'm getting two or three, you know, girls at the time.

I'm keeping them dancing. And I'm smoking weed every day. I'm having a good time. That's what I'm doing. What do you think your reputation was at the time from an outsider's perspective, not what you thought of it, but what others would think of you? One that was getting money all the time, you know.

No matter what. What business you're in, legal or illegal. From the outside, you're always going to have people that's going to have love for you. You always going to have people that's going to hate. So I already know I had a lot of people that hate it just because, you know, look at me. I'm a good-looking dude. You know what I mean? And I was making a lot of money.

So I knew there was people that hated me just based on whatever, based on the fact that I'm getting money, based on the fact that I was selling more weed than they could imagine. You know, a lot of dudes probably thought I was selling something else. but I really wasn't. It was like a little short episode where I did that because of my contacts in New York but nothing,

nothing really too serious, nothing that really lasted too long. I was really always a weed guy. So from the outside looking in, I believe, well, some of it I know. The dudes knew I was a serious dude. They knew I was in the game. They knew I was in them streets

and they knew I was connected. They knew I was a dude that can get him that bag and they knew I was a dude that if they fuck with me, you know, I could help him run up a check real fast and I did on a number of occasions.

There was a few cats that became millionaires because they fuck with me. Then I had some cats that never really fuck with weed. They was Coke boys. And they was millionaires and they was major in Atlanta. They was running the city and you know, you know, and what they did. But they fuck with me.

So dudes that sold Coke back then looked at weed like it was a joke. But some of these dudes might have some people that they fuck with that wanted to get a hundred, two hundred, a couple hundred pounds of weed. And a lot of times them dudes that I knew They would come and get it from me

They were grabbing for me They'd be like, yo, eat, we need a hundred We need two hundred You know, they throw me the money Or either they, I throw them to weed And they throw me the money later You know, that's what it was We was all getting money

We were making a lot of it So in my circle, you know The cats that I fuck was doing And they was doing it big Some of these names is major names Some of these cats did a lot of time And you know, that's what it was I mean, I'm not gonna tell you

And sit here and say We was the only cats because Atlanta was a big city, just like any major big city. So there was a lot of cats that was doing it on a major level. But I was one of them and the people that I associated myself with and my friends, they were too. They were selling hundreds of birds and I was selling hundreds, if not thousands of pounds of wheat.

Eventually, it became thousands and it became tons like for real, but just a dead time period that you talk about, you know, in my early 20s. I was doing it. I was making hundreds of thousand dollars and it wasn't no secret to the people that knew me. Now to the outside, like I explained to you, I wasn't really all that flashy. First time when I really started getting flashy was really almost like a fuck you. Because some cats had, no, for real talk, some cats had, they had snitched on me. And they was really just hating.

Country niggas from up the block. Excuse me, excuse me, my French. I don't like to use that word. Especially when I'm sitting there with somebody that's not in my race, just to be real with you. But sometimes it just pops out. It's a slip. But so these cats up the block. they sent the police after us.

And, uh, because we had, we had three houses on the block. We had a way spot. We had a, uh, a spot where they did small things like breakdowns. And then we had a safe house. And we, you know, we was running that block. They was coming from all over to come to us to get the weed. And, uh, these cats up the block was just jealous. And, uh, and they sent the police on us.

And I just happened to be in the house. I didn't ever really stayed in that house. Because I really was, you know, I just had people that, was doing it and I just really went up in the house because my family owned it so I went up in the house and really they was probably watching the house from up the block that's probably why they that's probably why they busted it when I was in there so they busted it when I was in there and they they bailed a board us out and cuffs bought the weed out bought the guns and all of that stuff and I was able to beat that charge because the people that was in the crib they was family and they

was friends and they was like you know they took that charge but so when we walked out you know I'm in cuffs I can see everybody you know and I could see them suckers and I lay the found out who sent them, who sent the police. So what happened is one of them cats, hey, got busted up the block, and then they sent the police and said that they got it from us. Because there was a bunch of weed spots on that, on that block. So them suckers from the block, they got caught as they sold to an undercover,

so then they sent the police on us, and I ended up getting caught up in that. I ended up getting the charges dropped, like I told you. But in my mind, it was just a reaction. And I was like, all right, now I'm going to show you dudes. So I went out and I bought a 5-7. I bought a 540I, black-on-black, BMW V8 at that time in 97. It was a 97-540 I, and I did it because I seen somebody else with that car.

That was my first time seeing it. I was like, I'm going to go out and I'm going to get that. So I copped it. And I got it as a reaction to them dudes that hated on us and got me buster. So it was really like, oh, I'm going to show you, Jokers. Now I'm really going to turn up. And that's why I bought it. That's literally why I bought a flashy,

a flashy car at that point of time. How many people were working for you? So, I didn't, you know, I had people, I don't like to use that word because the people that was fucking with me, we was all in it together. Now, admittedly so. I was at the top of the food chain

and our crew that was doing the weed. I ain't talking about the dudes that was doing that thing. That was just associates that I spoke of earlier. I'm talking about people that flowed around me. Because I had the most entrepreneurial spirit. had to connect and really that's how that happened so you know i mean i guess in a way you could say they were working for me but it was really like this it was like friends and family or family and

friends and yeah it would all get the weed from me you know you could say it was 15 to 20 at any one period of time but the ones that was just working me from the standpoint that working for me from the standpoint that it was family and friends that they would get their weed for me but they did their own thing. I'm not like in no hierarchy where I got a structure where I'm telling them what to charge and all that. They had their own clientele and I had mine. Now, we did have houses that, you know, I made them houses rock. That's real. So they might have been in a house like I described where they were breakdowns and I would supply all of the weed and then we did have people in there that would sell it. So from that, you know, from that standpoint, I mean, I guess it was five, six

because those are the closest people to me and we was all doing it together. I don't really like to use that word working for me. We was all working together and everybody had their role. My role was one of supplier, you know, strategic planning, you know, I put a motherfucker plan together

and I make it happen. Then I had a number of other people that would get weed for me that I would front it to them. Now, for me, I look at that as a buyer-seller relationship. I'm not telling them what to sell it for. had their own clientele. Maybe some people would say they were working for me.

I don't really say they was working for me. And so much that I was fronting it to them, I'm fronting it to them so they could get their own bag and so that they can sell my weed. So I don't know how you want to categorize that, but like I said, maybe there was loosely five or six people working for me if you want to count the people that was close to me,

five or six or seven, maybe double that amount if you want to count the people or even triple that if you want to count the people that was that I was flinted to. What happens next, going through your 20s? I'm growing and I'm growing and I'm going. I'm always trying to add value to every situation. So like I told you, my man, eventually he asked me

if I can add to the equation by helping them with people to transport. So now I'm getting people that can, girls, primarily girls, that have a clean record, that's willing to go out to California. At this point, my guy, his people's in Cali, they're all Jamaicans. My people, I'd send them out there, they would handle the rest. You know, they would, if they want them to dress a certain way, they would get the

luggagees, they would package everything, they would buy it, they would do whatever. I would supply the girls. We were getting the girls that were college girls, white girls, Russian girls, black girls, whatever it was. I had a bunch of playboys on my crew. like myself, when I say that I just mean, you know, I was more of a businessman. I can get girls and I had girls that I could meet and influence them to take this trip. They get paid $1,000.

We tell them how it's going to happen, convince them nothing's going to happen. All they got to do is A, B, and C, go out there. They get a free trip, spending money to California. We're going to pay for everything else. We're going to give them $1,000 when they came home. That was an easy sell. But then I had other dudes that really got a lot of girls, and they basically helped recruit. So I added that element.

That's adding value to what that. to what they was doing because I'm helping them now with the transportation side of it by way of finding girls. Then, you know, so that happens. So that goes on for a period of time. You know, fast forward. Maybe we got to relax with it. The girls out there, there's a simultaneous bus that takes place in California.

Seven girls get bussed all at one time at different spots at the hotel, pulling up at the airport. Because, you know, as it was growing, growing more and more and more. The second the weed would land, we'd sell it. So they would bring it in the luggageers. Like I said, they would just check their bags. They would land in Atlanta. We would get the weed, rinse and repeat. We're doing that fast and faster, so we've got to get more and more people.

We did that maybe for, you know, a couple years, and then it all blew up. They got caught. I didn't get caught. But they got caught. Nobody snitched. Nobody told that's what happened. They got caught. It was a simultaneous bus.

and made the airport in LA. They got caught with weed. Most of them got probation. Some of them didn't get no time. Some of them had to do like, no, 210 days, what have you, shit like that. And then we got to switch it up again.

We know that's burned out. And we start using UPS. Like I said, at this time, they're still doing it. They're using UPS. They're using Postal. They're using FedEx. They're shipping it. You know, you do that for a while.

There's some things get busted, and you switch up again. The real way it really started to escalate is when we started getting into tractor trailers, you know. And so we found somebody that was willing to drive. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th. The powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamava Theater.com, only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary.

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No. Leaving the game? No. Why? Because it wasn't me. Like, there was, I'm, I'm chilling in Atlanta when they're going out there. Or maybe I might go to L.A. sometime. I'm having a good time.

But I didn't really see that as no, when that type of shit happened at that age, remember, I got a John Gotti mindset. I'm just thinking, I'm untouchable. That's literally what I'm thinking, like, yo, I'm just really meeting with them ones that got bonded out to, like, convince them, y'all, it's going to be okay, don't say nothing. It's all good. We're going to take care of you.

We're paying for the lawyer. And we did that. We took care of our people. So for me, it was just like, fuck, we got to find another way. So we started finding other ways. And most of the time, I didn't have to find the other way. At this period of time, they're finding the other way. They might ask me to add to it, like one aspect,

can you find a person that's a truck driver? They got a CDL license. So then I just go to work, and I find that. But they would take care of the rest. So now I wasn't thinking about splitting. shit, when I lost that money, I'm looking at doubling down. Because you get addicted to a lifestyle. You get used to the money.

At this point in time, I'm looking at, I got to make back this money that we didn't lost. Because remember, obviously, I'm not responsible for the weed that they were fronting, but I was always buying some, too. So now we just, you know, really you get more emboldened because you start thinking, okay, whatever. They got caught. I just find more people.

I just do it another way. And we found more people. We found another way. And so, yeah, I would get more involved in to answer your question. How did you scale up with the 18 wheelers when you doubled down in that moment? Well, initially, I was able to scale up because they was just willing to send more because they could send more. So we're making more and more money. And we're able to scale up in that manner.

But then, eventually, I scale up because, you know, I was able to get directly connected to who they was going. getting the weed from. Once again, the mind gets stretched. What happened is when we was using our driver, eventually, and we had went for like two years, just making unbelievable amount of money. I mean, we're getting

in thousands, tons. It was all good. The driver gets busted. Spidey, he was acting weird, spotty senses go off, and I realize, and I'm thinking, could we ain't heard from him? and I'm realizing, this joker, something must have happened.

I think he was going to try and set us up. I never messed with him again, and it was the right call because we later found out he, in fact, did get bussed. So when we had an attempt to reorganize, me and my dude was like, he got the Mexican through his cousin who was dealing with the Mexican. He was like, my cousin is going to let us deal directly with the Mexican. This is when I really start finding out and realizing

to Jamaicans is getting from a Mexican. So we go out, we meet the Mexican. They call him Frank. That's not a real name. He was in the United States. Later, he got deported. And this is a cartel guy? So here's the thing.

I always dealt with Frank. The insinuation, and I believe wholeheartedly based on things that happened, that he was cartel-connected. Now, I don't, I guess he was cartel, but, like, just based on what I know and what I've seen, you know,

but, like, he didn't necessarily never come out and say, like, you know, that's not how it happens, you know, in my experience. I mean, I didn't see other people tell the stories, and I can't fucking confirm nor deny what other people experience. But it wasn't like no structured tier where he was telling me, like, oh, this is this cartel, and now you're dealing with the cartel. Probably he was. I know he was from Guadalajara.

I went there before. I met with him. I went up into the foothills. These dudes sent tons. They were powerful. But can I sit here and say, because I know I did an interview before and the insinuation was probably there.

And maybe he was based on the area, based on the timing, based on all of that, based on the way they used to send us the weed, the way they used to package it, everything was expert. Like, I mean, these dudes would send thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds.

and the way they would make the boxes and mimic whatever else that that load was in the truck the labels everything was made perfectly but I can't necessarily sit here like I wasn't never recruited or or told like oh this is the cartel I mean yeah are the professionals really coming out and saying hey we're the cartel to someone they just met

or don't even really know fully you know there you go that's a conspiracy right there that's right so it never happened like that I always dealt with my guy, which was Frank. When he got deported, and, you know, whenever I went over there, I dealt with Frank. Did I meet other people? Yes. But none of those people didn't give me no instructions or nothing.

I just met them because they were standing around showing me the different way and trying to figure out exactly which weed I wanted. So I met them at the capacity of being able to pick out and choose which weed I was going to get, which one was good, which one would work. And they didn't speak any English, so it was always interpreted through my guy who spoke perfect English. And it's cash on delivery? Well, no, no, that's how I was able to scale up.

I was able to send some money through him to be able to get it at a cheaper price, but most of it was funded. Well, we did reach a point to where, if it was 2,000 pounds, I pay for half, they pay for half. Well, they sent half. And that's how I went. So when it first started, when we was first scaling up,

this was still out of California, remember. it was coming from Mexico, but, you know, it was all being delivered to California, and they were sent a certain amount, and then after a while, entrepreneurial spirit, I started wanting to send money, I'll send money, I'm getting it for a cheaper price, but no matter how much I sent,

they was always going to send more. And actually, like I said, when I say day, it was really just me. It was almost like Frank was my business partner. So then we came to an agreement, okay, well, if you send $2,000, because he would say he was buying it. So, like, he would buy his,

and then I would buy mine, we get the same price, and then I would sell his for him for a little high price, and then I would be able to profit more because I got mines at a cheaper price. And that's how that went down. So, you know, that's how I went. Like, I would send the money to purchase my part, and then whatever he sent on top, then I would get it. It would land in Atlanta when it would land in Atlanta.

And then after I sell it, then I would pay him their money. Where are you storing this 2,000 pounds? Oh, man. Where do you put that once it comes in? everywhere, garages, people's garages, people's houses. So I would have a network sort of like, and for those of you have been to prison, by the way, I was a storeman in prison. And I was also a bookie.

Yeah, we'll get to that. So, and this is just a little example. In prison, you've got mackerel and in a storement, you got a whole bunch of stuff, so you don't have enough room in your lockers to store stuff. So I'm giving you just to give you their analogy, I would store stuff all over. I'm paying people to keep stuff in their lockers. I got stuff all over in prison at all everybody's locker. Well, that's how it was in the real world, except it was garages and it was people's houses and it was people's living rooms.

And I would just have a network of people, either I knew them directly or just like if I couldn't find a girl directly, I'd have somebody that would find a girl. Well, I would have a network of people where I would have it either directly or they would know somebody that, you know, the number one thing is you want to find somebody that's not in the game, somebody that's totally honest, somebody that's totally legal, somebody that's working. And we would store it. Now, I also had some at times in my garage, which was stupid. I never got caught with anything in my house, but it was stupid. But, you know, so I'd have my garage fucking filled up, you know, all the way to the top where you can't even move. But I'd have a series of other people's houses and a rotating thing, but we would have safe houses. So we would pay them to store it there, and then they would also bring it to us.

So that was part of the deal. Like in the case where, you know, some people would be willing to start, but they couldn't bring it to me, then my people would be able to, you know, go there and have access to get it as needed. So is the riskiest part of this operation the pass off when you're actually getting the drugs delivered to you before you break it down and put it into the safe houses? I think so, yeah, the riskiest part because I was there when they delivered it.

And that was always kind of scary because that's the one thing that we didn't initially have is like a bona fide warehouse you could pull up in that's secure so we'd have to find I would always be the one finding like warehouse spots in different parts of Georgia like he would come at four or five in the morning

we'd find a spot that doesn't have a camera and then you would just go to like industrial areas and then you would just you know we'd have a U-Haul van or some type of van or a U-Haul truck you have to make sure that the shocks are good because you don't want the whole thing like tilt down too much when you have too much weight in there

I would never drive it would always have, you know, one or two drivers. And then so we would pull up butt to butt. By that, I mean the back of the U-Haul and the back of the 18-wheeler. And that's what we would do. And then we would just create like an assembly line. And, you know, and the back would just go up. And then they would just throw the boxes in.

And, you know, so that was kind of like the scariest part. I mean, nothing never happened. But I was always kind of like the scariest part that you're always like a little paranoid. They're like, fuck, you know, what happens if just like a police officer is just making their just for whatever reason just makes their rounds and just come driving back so you're sweating you're trying to do it as fast as possible so that you can just load up

and then just close the gate, lock it, well, you know, close the back of the U-Haul, put the lock in there and then drive off. Did you have any close calls? I never really had any close calls, man. I never really did. We just always managed it just, you know, it would take, you know, 15, 20 minutes,

you know, 30 minutes depending upon how much we had on that load. And we were just, you know, You know, the adrenaline is pop. I mean, it could be the debtor winner, and you're going to be sweating by the time it's over. Because, number one, you work in your hassle, you're getting the work out of it because we're just creating an assembly line.

You just pull up, and you just got to unload all in boxes. And then, you know, as soon as it happens, you just feel like your money in the bank. You know, for me, that was the most dangerous part. And outside of that, it's just somebody just getting caught that you don't know about unbeknownst to you. motherfucker turning rat and just turn it on you and setting you up. So do you think the success of this was very dependent on the time or the era in time this all occurred?

Lack of technology, law enforcement capabilities, everything? Yeah, I think to a degree, maybe to a degree. But, you know, there was also, there was a degree of strategic planning and having the right people that, you know, that wasn't going to snitch when they get caught. because, you know, people was getting caught all the time. And, you know, we had a pretty tight crew, save for the one fucking rat in West Virginia, you know, he was a fucking rat.

And that's why I happened. They didn't even know who I was. They didn't even know I existed. You know, I was essentially the original ghosts, you know, in my circle, like I told you, I wasn't flashy. I don't even think anybody in Atlanta, when I say anybody, law enforcement, had any idea. You know, that I was doing what I was doing.

I don't think they knew in Ohio neither. But, you know, they never would have caught me in West Virginia if it wasn't for this dude, you know, who I considered a friend at the time. And the dude just, it was just a fucking rat. That's how they were able to get the indictment on me. I forgive him to this day because I realized he was just weak, you know. He wanted to get home to his family, but this dude wasn't willing to do any time, you know, because, you know, for me, you know, some people probably view this however the fuck they want to view it.

I don't know. It's not up to me to judge. Like, if somebody's good to you and it's a real good friend and you know you're doing something wrong, you know you commit to crime, you've got to be willing to do some amount of time if you get caught. Like, if it's all on you,

if it's you're the reason why you got caught, nothing to do with me. You have to be willing to do some amount of time. And those are the people that... And I just don't like, man. Trump don't like them neither. President Trump, doesn't like a rat. Nobody likes a rat. However, from a human point of view, I can understand if you

have a family. I know that there's a breaking point for damn there every human being. I can understand if you're facing decades in prison or life. I get that. You know, you just make a decision that you're not proud of and that you're not happy about it. It doesn't feel good where, not me. I went to trial, but I'm saying other people. I can have some understanding to say, man, Yeah, he was a good dude He didn't want to do it But it was just too much time For him to be able to live with

I get that But this dude This fucking dude You know, he could have You know, then I come to find out he was a rat All his life Like he grew up a rat At a very young age

When he was in the early 90s This dude I come to find out After I lost trial After I blew trial Dude told me from West Virginia Because I'm not from West Virginia So when they find out that I'm on that case.

You know, they start telling me about this dude's background. And they tell me that this dude earlier in his life, because he did tell him in prison before. I didn't know that. So he understood the federal system. He knew how to work the federal system. And he was essentially working under the premise. That he got, he was working,

he was still in the streets under the premise that I got to get out of jail free card. If I get caught, I could just become the rat that I already am. So he testified against his best friend from the first grade, This is despicable behavior. I come to find this out from people that knew him. They was like, oh, you're dealing with this. It's the biggest rat in West Virginia.

I'm not making this up. I couldn't make it up. So that's what really hurt me because I consider him a friend. His kid's new mine. Like his wife knew mine. We used to visit him. Because at the time, that's how I built relationships. If I'm doing something with you, I want to know your family, we become family.

And there's no ratting on each other. We believe, that's the John Gotti. as I thought it was at that time based on what I grew up believing I'm thinking this is the mob code like nobody talk everybody walked like there wasn't no telling on your friends if you did something

you knew what you was doing and I just feel he broke the code because he used to always tell me he used to say yo he if I get caught you ain't never going to know about it you just ain't going to hear for me and then you're going to hear from me a couple years later motherfucking lie he'd tell the dude told as soon as they locked him up

they could have never got me I wasn't part of his And to make to add insult to injury, they didn't know nothing about me. They wasn't even investigating this creep for weed. They was investigating this sucker for cocaine. I didn't deal cocaine and didn't want to deal with people that did because I felt that that would bring heat. This dude was still dealing coke. Mind you, I told you, he knew.

I didn't know. He knew that early on in his life when he was dealing coke and crack, he got into a, so let me tell you this story. and shout out to Joe Patman, Joe Pappy, because this is another dude that was on his case. This is a stand-up dude. So when this dude, then I'm talking about, I ain't going to give him the point.

I ain't going to even put his name out there. I did before in a mistake. But I ain't going to say it now because I don't want to utter his word. I don't want to give him no credit. I don't want to give him no fame for being a king rat. This dude caught a case. His homeboy was they was dealing together. He gets caught.

It's his fault. his homeboy that he grew up with from the first grade, lend him money, right, to get one of the best lawyers, ex-governor, now he's a defense attorney, one of the best lawyers in West Virginia. He gives him money to help him with his case. This dude gets the lawyer and then cooperates against his best friend from the first grade, gets him a life sentence.

So for me, if you felt you had to do that, maybe they were facing life, I don't know. He probably was facing a boatload of time. But if you did some scumbag shit like this, you should not be back in the streets again. How could you do this when you know, I'm a sucker, I'm soft, I'm weak? Or they put too much time on me,

even if you ain't weak. They put so much fucking time on me, I got to do something despicable. I got to get my best friend fucked up and give him a life sentence. How could you come back out and start hustling again? How could you do that knowing that you, if you catch another case, you pussy,

and you're going to have to just go right away, instantly and cooperate. That's why I get all worked up. I'm sorry, I got to calm down. Because I told you, I don't talk about it a lot because I buried it. Like, I forget his dude on some real shit because I understand that. He just wanted to get back to his family. He didn't have a strength.

Or the order, or the, or the, the moral, the, what do they say? Code? The moral code without the, the intestin, the fortitude, I don't know. I'm tongue twisted. right now. But he didn't have a strength to be able to not tell, because he didn't have to tell on me. He didn't have to face life. He could have told on himself, pled guilty.

You didn't have to do that to me. I had never been in trouble before, so I didn't understand the federal system. I didn't really understand that you could just become a rat and you could just start testifying on people. This dude told on so many people. He started, he told so much stuff. They probably had to tell his dude, dude.

You tell us so much stuff. You really want to tell us this? He told on everybody. He told him stuff they had no idea about he told on everybody that he was messing with. He did that. He just went on for hours and hours and hours. Later, I come to find out his debriefing. He had so many debriefings.

It was incredible. So these dudes started loving this dude. So that's why I got into all that because that's what happened. I don't even remember the question. I just remember, refresh my recollection. I just get worked up when I start thinking about this dude because, you know, he fucked me up. He changed my whole life. Now, with that,

I understand I fucked myself up because I was doing something that I knew was illegal. However, I wouldn't have done him or I wouldn't have done none of my people the way he did me. I wouldn't have done it. I had an opportunity to do it as a matter of fact. Dues is watching this right now. They know he is official. They know 100% I went to trial and they know if I wanted to bury him when I caught that indictment, I could have buried him. And he's watching it now.

So shout out to you. Mrs. New York, aka King Kong. I ain't going to get another one because he's going to say, I was a little too close for comfort, my dude, but he was in my indictment. This dude hit me out of his house when I first went on the run when we was in Phoenix and Arizona.

This is my dude. And he was in my indictment, not that he was indicted, but that they believed I was doing business with him. And they begged me to tell on this dude. They told me, yo, you can go home. You can get home to your family. Think about they told me through my lawyer

because I didn't talk to him. So when you hear people talking about, oh, these people, they met with them. Now, if you met with them, you was talking to him. You was debriefing. They reached out to my lawyer. My lawyer tells me that the U.S. attorney asked to told them to tell me.

Think about your family. Then my lawyer bought me all of this stuff that they bought me. Like, this dude is in your fest. Do you know this dude? Think about your family. You don't have to do this. You don't have to face this type of time. Mind you, I'm out on bond.

So, so, so I don't find out all of this stuff that I'm telling you about until after I blow trial. And they take me right that same day. And I'm in the counter jail in West Virginia. That's how I started finding out all of this stuff on this rat is because I had to go to the county jail once I was out on bond for 18 months because I had never been in trouble before

and then they gave me 12 and a half years for a marijuana conspiracy. They call it a dry conspiracy historical weight but I was able to fight my conviction while I was in there and get a post-conviction relief. Pro se that means for y'all is job for those of y'all that don't know I wrote all my own briefs.

I educated myself when I was in there so when they say jailhouse lawyer and all that type of stuff I'm him. Y'all are looking at them. I wasn't good. I was the best. I went on a case of first impression. They said in my case sits on all fours. I quoted cases and was able to get myself out and able to put my attorney in a trick box because I won on a 2255. It's called ineffective assistance of counsel. Many have tried, but most have failed. There's less than 1% that can even get any release. And then it's 1% or less than 1% of 1%. I think it's one out of every 7,000. cases that gets any release post-conviction.

And most of those people, they don't get what I got. I got all convictions overturned, immediate release. It was the first time it had ever been argued like that in West Virginia. Because I learned something when I was studying in that law library, write my own briefs. I learned, and I learned this through reading. Like, this is not something I made up. This is something that I learned in the law books and just reading different law journals and periodicals, they say, if you can't win on the facts, they say, if you can't win on the evidence

and the facts, then went on procedure. If you can't win on procedure, they find someone to blame it on. So I couldn't win on the facts and on the evidence because I was guilty as charge. But I was able to win on a combination of procedure and finding someone to blame it on. But I didn't find someone to blame it on some sucker shit where it was like, I'm going to make my attorney be a fall guy after he did a good job. No, he sucks. Dale Gallipo. That's why I blamed it on him, because if it wasn't for this joke, I wouldn't have did the time that I did. Because he did not educate me like he's supposed to educate me on whether or not I should plead guilty or not guilty. This is called a plea bargaining phase. This is when your attorney, a lot of people don't notice.

So everyone has a right, a Sixth Amendment right. And in that Sixth Amendment right, you hear on TV or whatever have you here, you have the right to an attorney. Okay, but you don't just have the right to an attorney. You have the right to effective assistance of counsel. And that means that they have to give you appropriate information when you are making your decision whether or not to go to trial, stand trial, which is your constitutional right, or to take a plea. This is all doing the plea bargaining phase. So if the information that your attorney has given you does not reach the professional, the standard of the professional norms of attorney standards,

which is set by a bar association, the American Bar Association, then the information that he's given you is incorrect. If it's incorrect and it doesn't fit those standards to norms, then he's giving you faulty information. And that's what my attorney did. He gave me incorrect information. He didn't tell me correctly whether or not I should stand trial or take a plea. He didn't inform me correctly of what the charges that I was facing and how much time I would be facing.

He did not inform me correctly on whether or not the charges, they say the likelihood of defeat, the likelihood of winning the case before you go to trial. Me, I'm a lay person. I don't know anything about the law. I have to be advised correctly by somebody. that is a professional in this standard, the legal standard. And he didn't give me any of that. He told me, oh, you could probably beat this case.

I can definitely win because he was used to winning cases. He was a good attorney for the state. I'm not going to lie, he had a reputation for the state of California. That was another mistake I made, getting an attorney for California and West Virginia courtroom. They was looking to skin this out of state attorney bringing to him with his fancy $5,000 suits into West Virginia. So that was a major mistake I made. the mistake he made was was uh was telling me you can win this case so he won a lot of cases in

california murder cases murder cases are the easiest cases to beat so they used to call this man the three strikes man and he would he would tell me about all this and brag to me and show me paper clippings and everything i don't know so i'm impressed by all of this because he would help people in california when they would have three strikes or they would get charged and he would be able to beat it so they wouldn't get three strikes as you know at that time the three strikes in California would give you life without the possibility to parole. So he fed all this nonsense to me. Oh, there's no dope on the table.

We can win this case. Bullshit you can win this case. Damn there every conspiracy case in the federal government is no dope involved. That's why they created a conspiracy law to be able to catch people like myself. That was too smart to touch it. Or was I? Like my uncle said before. He said, son, he said, I don't know about this conspiracy thing.

He said because this conspiracy thing, I just don't know about it. He said it's like an amoeba. It's something that you can't touch. You can't feel. He said, a conspiracy charge is so dangerous because the federal government, he said they make that shit up along as they go. And basically they do. They don't have to have the physical dope.

It's better to be caught with the physical dope because what I had was a dry conspiracy historical way. So they can take that. Then they can bring in other people that you don't even know and they can make inferences and references and they can add it all up. And they can say, well, if you was bringing them this amount per week or per month and you was doing that for four years, which you can make. they did in my case, then they can extrapolate out and say, we're going to take, okay, you

would bring in 380 pounds a month. This is what this dude is testifying to. That's 380 pounds a month times 12 months because there's 12 months in a year. And then we're going to extrapolate that out because we're saying the conspiracy span for four years. So now we're going to charge you 380 times 12 times four. And that's the amount that they're going to try and sentence you to in your indictment. This is crazy shit.

He didn't break any of that down to me. I don't even think he knew it because he wouldn't have sold me or none of that nonsense. Talking about a conspiracy cases. easy to beat. Anyone knows, now I know, have to educate myself the best. Once you got cooperating witnesses against you, you can kiss your ass goodbye. If you go and you're going to stand trial in a federal indictment in a conspiracy case where they're saying that you leader organizing all this type of stuff, they punish my ass. They got me in there. I was facing five to 40.

But if I were to pled out, I could have pled to five. But didn't they get you in there because they're mad at you for testing the government and making the government have to prove their case? they say that you're wasting the resources of the government. They fried my behind. They really, basically my friends, some other friends told me you're going to kiss your black ass goodbye because they're going to send you somewhere in the moon. They're going to lose you out there.

And that's exactly what they tried to do because they feel like I tested them. And they felt at the time that I was guilty. So he was supposed to educate me on that and he did not. And that's why I blame him. And that's why I'm blasting him. I believe that he just wanted to get practice in a federal court. dude didn't have no real experience in federal court. So I think he was literally using me to get experience in the federal court pumping me up telling me a bunch of nonsense. He didn't

understand the federal guidelines. I'm a master at the federal guidelines now. But I learned all that shit when I was in prison trying to get myself out, not by him, my attorney, who I paid tens of thousands of dollars to. And that's why I'm salty with him. Not anymore. I mean, it might sound like I am, but I'm... You thought this was your run club era. Turns out, it was more of a thinking about Run Club era. The good news? Someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on Deepop.

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love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The Four Seasons is back for season two, starring Tina Faye, Will Forte, Coleman Domingo, Marco Calvani, Carrie Kenny Silver, and Erica Henningson.

After a difficult year, your favorite group of friends continues their tradition of vacationing together, now with a baby in tow. From the Jersey Shore to upstate New York and Italy, their getaways are sure to take unexpected turns where comedy ensues. Watch the four seasons May 28th, only on Netflix. I'm just saying, you bring them back, you know, you bring it back, I'm kind of tendered with this type of shit in. You know, when I start thinking,

about it. It's like, oh. Well, you see the raw emotion and passion. So, in summary, this guy snitches on you. Yeah. You get arrested for conspiracy by the feds. That's right. And it's a Fed case. You go to trial. You lose a trial. How much time do you get sentenced to? 151 months. Which for y'all

of those, y'all, is not super fast. And math is 12 years, seven months. And the reason why I got sentences to mine on a marijuana case, like I said, I could have got a lot less. Had I pled out, I would have got all type of, the federal guideline works like a grid. You started a number. You could either move up or down. If you move down, they're heading in the right direction. That's going to give you less time.

If you move up, that's in the wrong direction. I started at level 26, which started at 63 to 78 months. And so, but I could have moved down. If I would have pled guilty, I could have got all type of different mitigating factors, which would have been like two points down for safety volume. It would have been like three points down for acceptance to responsibility. I could have got the drug program. I probably could have a year and a half. Man, I had a family. I'm 32 years old at the time. I don't know shit about prison. I grew up with a lot of. gangsters in the street. And I used to hear stories, but most of these dudes, to be honest, that you didn't do Fed Town, so they didn't know what the fuck they was talking about when

they were telling me. They were telling me, too, oh, yeah, you could beat it. So I got some friends telling me, you could beat it. Then I got my lawyer telling me you could beat it, and I want to beat it because I don't want to go to prison. The thing that I know about prison is eyes and shit. I'm thinking I'm going to go into this motherfucker and get raped or knifed. I mean, Ian, I ain't no sucker. I got a lot of heart. I consider myself a tough guy back then, but I am not a tremendously big dude. So, you know, when you see any stories, You didn't meet some people in the street and you thinking, don't know what's the type of dude that's in prison? I'm thinking, I'm going to get me, you motherfuck going to tear my head off or they're going to knife me or it's going to be some type of crazy fucking situation that I'm going to have to, you know, fight myself out of and turn it to an animal to stay alive.

You don't know. And so when you got a lawyer that's not educating you on this type of shit, you make, you make the decision that I made, which was a stupid-ass decision. And in my mind, I'm not even allowing myself to believe that I can, that I can be convicted and go to prison because I don't want to go to go to the prison. prison. I'm scared to death, to be honest with you. Even though I know a lot of people and they tell them we can link you with people in there, you're going to be, all right, I'm still thinking, what the fuck? I'm going to go to, I got a family. I got a, at this time when I first get indicted, I don't even have a, I got three kids, my youngest daughter. So when I ended up going, a year and a half later, my youngest daughter was seven months, my oldest was six and I had two in

between. So I say that to say that I had a family. I don't want to go to prison, but I need my attorney who I'm paying a lot of money to, to sit me down and say, listen, they have an extremely compelling case against you, the government that is. And the likelihood of you winning is slim than none. If you go to trial, you're going to more than likely lose, and then they're going to stretch you out. They're going to give you as much time as they can give you because that's what they do in the federal system. They're going to give you a lot of time, more time than you can fucking handle, because you're testing the government. That's what he needed to tell me. He was supposed to tell me you you have witnesses that are going to cooperate against you. They're going to get on the stand.

They're going to make you look bad. They're going to give you enhanced. and you're going to get your head knocked off. I do not advise you to go to trial. Now, at that point, if I tell him, because ultimately, decision is mine, if I say, well, I'm going to trial anyway, then I got the right to do that. But I certainly don't need to hear that bullshit from my attorney talking about you got a weak case and the government. There's no dope on the table and I can definitely beat this case.

This is what this dude told me. He's a fucking disgrace. And he was derelict of his duties. And I don't believe he should even be an attorney. And the federal judge said as much when I got back six and a half years later. The federal judge agreed that my attorney did not live up

to his expectation of what are the professional standards of what an attorney should do, which is advising your client of the likelihood of defeat or victory at trial, what they are facing, what type of sentence that they would face? He gave me all the wrong answers.

Tell us about prison. Where did they send you to? So it's funny. So I Well where they sent me to is Jessup Behind the fence when I first started out But I want to start in the county jail Because what some people don't know

And some people do know if they've had to experience The county jail is no motherfucking joke That's a gladiator school for real You're in there and you're not in there with Nobody's classified when you immediately lose So me, a marijuana guy No violence on the jacket never killed nobody

my first two bunkeys was a double murderer and a murderer you're in there with dudes that is facing life without the possibility of parole you literally locked up with dudes that's facing life and like I told you I'm not a big guy I ain't no motherfucking sucker but

I'm in West Virginia I'm not from West Virginia there's a bunch of meth recovering meth dudes in there and a bunch of drug dealers and a bunch of murderers and this is what I'm in there with so y'all it was a it was a super interesting experience. I've seen a lot of crazy

motherfucking shit happened. I seen dudes get their fucking wig split. I seen dudes get stabbed. I seen makeshift. I seen a dude jump from the top tier on his head to try and commit suicide. I heard his head pop. I see the bloods, you know, rolling

down the fucking pod. I see them have to, you know, I'd seen lockdowns. I've seen them come up in there and mace everybody. I seen it all. So it was not a favorable experience, you know, but that was my life for the first year right after I fell at trial because, you know, they wanted to punish me. And if you, if you're looking at more than 10 years on a drug conviction back then, they wouldn't give you no bond, which is crazy as fuck to me because

white collar dudes would be facing 30 years and shit and be able to get out and get their affairs in order, but we already know, we know about the, like, just the way the laws was written and the way that the judge, the judge has treated minorities a lot of time. And it's my opinion, not to turn into a race session, but a lot of the draws was, a lot of the drug laws was discriminatory against minorities. And I was a minority. So a lot of the laws was written in such a way where they would say, well, if you are a drug conviction facing more than 10 years, we're not going to give you bond. And then kind of from find out, I think it was like Bernie Evers, one of them dudes that was on the WorldCom, this dude was facing 30 years. And he was able to get a bond.

I was like, what the fuck? I'm only facing a little over 10, but they didn't give me a bond. So they took me immediately and they locked me up. And, you know, you feel like, like a little, you feel like, you know, I've told this story before and described it as such, because I used to own a bow constrict them. So when I was younger, I'd have a bow and we'd put rats in there. We'd feed them rats because we always hated rats. Rats and mice, but rats we enjoyed the most. And sometimes as soon as you get dropped in there, that bowl would coil around them, you know, strangle the shit out of them and then swallow them. But sometimes the boa might not be hungry. But the rat would still know,

and his time is coming. And we'd look at him and we'd laugh. and we'd see his heart pulsating. Because that rat knew that he was in there with something that was bigger to him. And I don't know what the rat knew in his mind. But, you know, we would look at that. And you'd see the fear in the rats. The rat wouldn't even want to move.

Almost like if he could just not move, he would just disappear. And the ball wouldn't know he was in there. Well, that's how I felt when they first took me. You know, when I lost a trial, because they put you in this van. It's a cage inside of the van. And they take you in. to the bottom of the courthouse.

It was the federal building. And then they take you to the county jail. And you're in there, you know, cuffed up at the ankles around the waist and the wrists. And I had never been to prison before, like I told you. I had been arrested before, but I never spent the night because I was always able to bail out and then get, you know, get an attorney in Atlanta. Renee Rockwell, she was always the one. Shout out to Renee Rockwell.

I love you. Because she was the best attorney for me. She got a lot of dudes out. And when I caught all in smaller cases, In my younger years, she would always give me out. But this was a different scenario. This was the federal government. And I was in there, and I lost a trial.

And I knew for a fact that I was going to be going away for a substantial amount of time. So I said all of that to say that, I felt like that rat, you know, just in there like a caged animal, heart pulsating. And the biggest and the scariest thing I think for most human beings is not knowing what to expect, you know, not knowing what is next. And so that's what it was like. So when I get in there, I remember it was August 19th, 2005. I never forget that day because we're in the ballpen, we're in the county jail. I'm in West Virginia, but I'm looking at the TV, the small TV that they had in there, and it was Katrina.

That was the first day of Katrina. So I can never forget that day and the day of Katrina because that was the day that I fell. And so I'm in here and, you know, I'm in there. I'm in the county jails for over 10 months because I had to be. didn't do any cooperating, nothing like that. But, you know, I had attorneys and they wanted to prepare my PSR report. You know, they wanted to give as much mitigating information to the, it's either referred to as a PSR or PSI, which is pre-sentencing report or pre-sentencing investigation, depending upon which jurisdiction you're in. So, you know, it was about four or five months,

because my sentencing hearing wasn't until February, even though I fell in August. And they wanted to prepare all that for me. So it took some time that I was there. I was in that county jail. And, y'all, it wasn't nothing nice. It was horrible. You know, you don't get to go outside. You're in there for 23 and a half hours a day or 23 hours a day. You might be able to go out to this little concrete area that they had, which was concrete. You still in the jail.

You know, you don't touch anything green. You don't see anything green. The sky above you has a, you know, it has a covering over. You can see through it, but it's like a chain-link fence of some sorts. You know, so it was a fucking nightmare, man. The food tasted like shit. And that was my life. That was my life for, you know, for five or six months.

you get sentenced and then when you get sentenced you got to go through diesel diesel therapy which they sent us to a couple of county jails in west virginia and then we had to go if it seemed like i was going to every county jail in kentucky and uh and and and that's what i had to do i had to go through alanna holdover then they sent you all the way out to oklahoma you know i had to go through tallahasse you just all over the fucking country you know it's a fucking joke you know you get to get on the plane which is another joke uh you get on that plane you have to go to the actual runway and they got

all over the place with guns and, you know, it's just like you see on a con air. Like, the shit is real. Like, if you got to use the bathroom, they got to take you there, you know, you know, they got to take you to the stool. They got to sit you on the toilet, whatever you got to do. I try not to eat because you don't want to have to do that, you know, and it's just, it's just a long process of buses and planes and, and getting you up early to wait and going here and, you know, you got to squat and squit. You got to squat and cough and cough Strip, squat and cough

So many times that I damn near thought I was a stripper You know, because that's what it is That's what the life is And you got to go through that whole fucking process And then, you know, they call it diesel therapy But that's what you got to do If you're a federal inmate and you got to get from one destination to the next And that's what you have to go through

And so I went through it And then, and then, yeah, so after I get sentenced, you know, that's when I started that whole process of going through all that. And then they sent me to Jessup. And, you know, it's like it was yesterday. You never forget that, you know, when you get there. So after I get sentenced, I get sentenced to 12 years and seven months,

151 months. That's how the federal government gives you your time. They give it to you in months. And when I get there, I get to Jessup, and, you know, you see the raised wire and you see the fence. And, you know, it's like two fences in the raised wire, you know. And you get there and they say, welcome to your new home for the next few years.

That's what they tell everybody, because there's several of us that's going to, you know, that's going to dress up. And, yo, it was just fucked up. But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, you learn how to do the time, at least I did. And it wasn't as bad as I thought. And you get in there, and I made a conscious decision.

I read a lot of books. I educated myself in there. And you make a conscious decision that you're going to either, you know, don't let the time do you. And you're going to do the time, and that's what I did. So when I got in there, I read a lot of things.

I got very spiritual. I got back to my roots. You know, I'm steadily reading the Bible. I'm praying. A lot of people probably are hoping that something will change or somehow you can get out. But in me, I wanted to fight my case legally, and that's what I committed to. So I committed to, you know, as soon as I got in my first institution,

it actually started when I was in Kentucky and county jail. But when I got there, you know, there's a law library. And I started educating myself and trying to figure out how, How the fuck am I going to get myself out because I don't want to do all this time. And so that's what I committed my time to. And another thing that I started doing is learning how to exercise and learning how to eat. Because I was out of shape, I was 216 pounds. I didn't know the difference between the carb and a carbohydrate.

And when I got there, I saw people walk it off. I seen people walk off more than 100 pounds, 200 pounds. Literally when I say walk it off, they just fucking walk the track all day every day and they walked it off. So that was one of the things I did, but I also did a lot of sprint work. I started learning how to lift weights. had people in there that I, you know, became good friends with and, you know, they became personal trainers or they were personal trainers in there. And I got in some of the best shape of my life.

It started when I was at Jessup, but I ended up at another institution. And that's when it took a whole new level. I ended up training with Tim Montgomery, you know, who is a friend of mine. Tim Montgomery was the original Usain Bolt. He was the fastest man in the world. He was an Olympic gold medalist. At the time, he had made a baby when he was in the Olympics. He made a baby with Marion Jones, and she was the fastest woman in the world. He was the fastest. man in the world, and they used to call him the fastest couple in the world. So they made a baby together. But I trained with him for four years straight, and I got into the best shape of my life, you know.

And so, you know, there's, you know, and I believe this to this very day, this carryover. I believe there's some horrible things that can happen to in your life. But you have to make a decision. We all have to make a decision when something happens. That's not the best, you know, whether it's by our own doing or it's just by circumstance of life. But I say good things can come out of bad situations. And I made a decision that I wanted to, the decision that I had to make is I was going to either come out bitter or better. So, you know, there was a point in time when I was extremely bitter about the people that testified against me.

You know, I wanted to hurt them. I wanted to do something about them. I'm going to do something to them. You know, I would wish, you know, death upon them. But that's not really who I am. That's not where my roots are. So, you know, I was able to get over that. And I was able to understand and learn that the faster you get over that, the better it is for you. because the more I thought about that

and replayed it in my mind and wanted to hurt them and wish bad things on them and wanted to say, I wish I didn't do this, I wish I didn't do that and why did they do that. It was hurt me.

It was occupying my brain and it was eating away at me and it was really, it was killing me slowly. So when I was able to just let that go and understand that, yes, they did that to me, but I put myself in a position

to allow them to do that to me. Once I was able to get over that, that's when I started doing what they say bidding. I started bidding and my life became, my time became easier and my life became better. And I started to be happy every single day because I was also able to see that. Happiness is a decision no matter where you at. And I was able to become free while I was in prison. So that was almost like a mental prison that I was in. I was in a mental prison before I was in prison. And that's what landed me in prison because I thought I needed to, I needed to chase these

things that have material gains. I needed to put my life and my freedom and my family. And family welfare at risk by doing illegal things, putting myself in that position based on the lifestyle, based on my thought process, which was a mental prisoner thinking that I had to keep up with this and that. I had to have certain type of things in order to justify who I am. But I'm Eric G. And I've always been Eric Jolp. I've been that way my whole existence. So once I was able to understand that, I was able to let go. And I was able to forgive. And I was able to not be mad at him anymore. Because like I said, I just realized he didn't have the intestinal fortitude That was the word that I was looking for easier that I couldn't find.

He didn't have the intestinal fortitude that I had to not tell on the people the day was asking me to tell on. He didn't have that. And that's just who he was. He didn't make himself. So I feel sorry for him that he didn't have, the strength that I had to not tell all my friends. And I was able to get into my Bible and get back to my roots and get on that spiritual journey. And I was able to get in that law library. And I was able to get good at it.

And I was able to find that key. that key that was on those law books that Jack Cater told me about. Jack Cater, who was the older man from Alabama, who had been serving time from 1989, and I met him when I got to Montgomery prison. And in that law library, I walked in there because I wanted to continue the work

that I started when I was at Jessup. And I walked into that law library, and he said, you know, we started talking for a little while, and then he said, you see these books up here, around here with the keys on them, with the LED. he said those are called those are lawyers additions they have a number and they have a key they're in the law library they're in every law library and he said in one of those books is the

key to you getting yourself out of prison he said you know how to shepherds i said no i don't have no idea how to shepherds shepherds is when every judge when they when they write an opinion of why they ruled a particular way they have to cite a case which is case precedent it's based on a case or earlier case that happened. When you find that case, that case quotes another case. And then another case is so forth and so on. That's what shepherizing is. So Jack Kater taught me how to shepherds and he told me, he said, yo, young man, said, yo, young blood, he said, yo, there's no perfect case. He said, every single case has a flaw in the case. He says, so you got to learn how to shepherdize, which I'll teach you how to do. And he said, you got to find

the flaw in that case. And it's in one of these books. Now, there's hundreds of books. He like, but when you find that case, that's the key to getting you out of prison. And that gave me the confidence to go to work. And I went to work, and I found that case. And I found that key. And I was able to get back in prison. And I was able to get myself out. I started talking. You know, I'll get on a tangent real quick. But that's when I was talking about like, yo, when I say I'm good at this law work, I'm good at the law work. It's not being braggadocious, it's just being real. People used to come to me and I helped. a lot of people out. I was locked up with some of the, you know, some people that were some of the

best, like Dickie Scruggs. I was locked up with the Dickie Scruggs, who was a Mississippi lawyer, who was, who was graduated from Ole Miss, Miss, Old Miss lawyer. And at the time, back then, Dickie Scruggs and his crew, these lawyers had won the largest cases in U.S. history. He had won tobacco lawsuits and and defended the Exxon Valdez case, these dudes had won billions of dollars in lawsuits. And I was locked up with him because he was locked up with bribing a judge. I was locked up with different dudes like that. And I would bounce certain things off of them when I was discussing my case, locked up with Dino Aikulo, my G, who's in Florida, who we used to refer to as the legal genius. And these are different people that I would

talk to about my case and they would help me and we would have arguments and they would tell me don't argue it like this or argue it like this and uh and i was y'all y'all i argue my case in such a way that it had never been argued like that before as what i said they call it a case the first impression or a case that sits on all fours because i was able to find something that was able to get me back in the court which was what what i was looking for was like i told you earlier was a 2255 because I was trying to get out on an ineffective assistance of counsel. The only way that you can get back into court once you've exhausted all your remedies on direct appeal

and after you try and go to get rid of certiori and go to the Supreme Court and you can't get that, you get turned down as I would, as I was, is the last ditch effort, and it's called 2255. And the state is called 2241. But you're essentially arguing or trying to find that your constitutional rights were violated. The only way you can get out at this point

is if your constitutional rights were violated. In this case, I was arguing that my Sixth Amendment right to an attorney was violated because my attorney gave me faulty information. And so I had to find the case, and a lot of times people will find the case that's similar, but not exact. That's where it goes back to sits on all fours. You can find a case that sounds like it's exact, but it's not exact. The government will distinguish it.

All they got to do is find one little way to say, yeah, your case is like it, but guess what? we're going to distinguish it because your case was not exactly like this case that got this person out and here's why. So not only do you have to find that your case is different, but you have to find had you used that case, had things been done differently by your attorney or by other means because people argue different things. In my case, it was my attorney. Had your attorney given you the advice that you claim he should have given you, then things would have been different in your case. See, you have to be able to prove that there would have been a difference in your case. You have to find that you were harmed, not only that it occurred, but that you were harmed, because often what will happen is the government will argue, well, yeah, this happened,

but there's no harm. Either way, the result would have been the same. So I had to find something to show not only did this happen by this dude, it happened, in fact, But had it happened differently, had he advised me correctly, the result is what you're looking at. The result of my proceedings, my proceedings would have been different. In this case, the result would have been that I would have ended up with a substantially lower amount of time because I would have pled guilty rather than exercising my constitutional rank. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling homeless,

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if this dude that I was upset with would have advised me correctly, which is what I was paying them for. How much time did you end up serving? Six years, four months, and two days. But who's counting? Well, I am. What's your life look like now?

My life looks like now. Like, I'm so blessed. It's almost like Job. You know, I've had everything taken away. Stripped down to the bare bones. And I prayed about this. And everything's been restored tenfold. And Comer Yates, who I mentioned earlier,

who was a mentor of mine and a dear friend. You know, he told me when I came home, I was telling him I wanted to go to law school, and he said, one of the things that I think you should do is that you should be a man of service. He said, there's nothing more rewarding. And so when I came home, one of the things that I was doing was I was doing, I partnered up with the United States Attorney's Office

for the Northern District of Georgia, and I started with their community outreach program because it was so, so important to me that young people that look like me or they don't look like me, young people that can relate to me because of what they've been through and what I've been through,

that they could know, just because you've made a mistake, they can look at themselves, they can look in the mirror and say, if they're facing time, if they're doing time, or if they've done time, they can say,

just because I made a mistake, it's not over for me. And let me correct that. Young people, older people, anyone for that matter. But primarily in my mind it was younger people because I have children and I'll get back to that. And I wanted, this is why I started doing the community outreach because I didn't want people to go and suffer through what I suffered through. I wanted to let them know it doesn't matter what your circumstance looks like. It doesn't matter what you're going through. It doesn't

matter what you've been through. That does not have to define you. The book is not over. There's more chapters to be written to your story. That was extremely, extremely important to me. So I partnered up and I started speaking in prisons and jails to people that would be coming home, to let them know what are the things that they're going to be looking at when they're facing reentry. What are the hurdles? What are the obstacles and not to be discouraged?

I spoke at universities because I wanted to speak directly to the future decision makers and I spoke to at-risk youth in high schools because I wanted to be able to stop young people from going through what I went through. One of the things that I knew that I learned is that if I knew what I was facing, if I knew how much time I can get, there's a good chance that I might have changed my behavior. But I had it in my mind. If I don't get caught with it, it's only marijuana. First offense, I'll be facing probation. I had no idea about conspiracy and historical weight. and, you know, dry conspiracy. I didn't know that if they didn't catch me with something,

they can add it up based on someone's testimony and if the jury believes it, that's what they're going to attribute to you. So I wanted to educate people, and I do this even now to this day. It was so important to me to make an impact on others because, you know, honestly, I'm an impasse. And I feel other people's pain.

You know, like literally, I mean, I don't know what this might sound like. Am I sound weak? in my son. I don't know. I don't give a fuck anymore because I'm old enough that I live my life and I'm unapologetic about whatever I could say, but I could start crying based on, you know, based on me seeing other people suffering, based on seeing certain things on the news. And, you know, it was really, really important to me because, you know, when I came home, you know, I did a lot of things, like I said with the community outreach and I went, you know, and I'm going to be real

careful with this because it's the first time I'm talking about this. I, you know, I shouldn't I got into this shit because I can get so emotional. So I went to speak to children of incarcerated parents. And when I looked out into the crowd and started speaking to them, I immediately started crying because my children were with me. That's the first time they always saw me cry. I was with the United States Attorney's Office. Shout out to Dr. Daniel Sweatwily because she cares.

And she is the director of that community outreach division of the United States Attorney's Office. And when I looked into that crowd, the reason why I started crying is because instantly it hit me. That those children were my children. Those are children that was, you know, we were going there for Christmas to speak directly to them. They wanted me to be there to speak to them to give them hope, to give them faith. And it was a whole program where they would get gifts. Every child can get a gift.

And that, yo, that just made an enormous impression on me. And I don't want, you know, I wanted to speak to children that are suffering through that. And I wanted to speak at the high schools to children to stop them from going through that. because most times people is like, especially drug crimes, for me, I just know that, for the most part, nothing is absolute, but a lot of times it's a financial crime. People just trying to make money. And remember I talked about earlier about stretching your mind so many times in these communities of people, no matter what to color, no matter where they are in the world, they haven't been exposed. They haven't had the exposure to training, the teaching, their education to know, you know there's other ways out there. you ain't got to risk your life.

You don't got to risk your family's life in order to make money. But they're exposed to dudes that's making easy money right there in their community. So that's why so many people end up selling drugs. And it meant something to me, and it means something to me to this day. And I wanted to make a difference that the best way that I could, I wanted to make a difference to them. And, yo, man, I just hurt when other people hurt. So, you know, so that's what my life looks like.

My life looks like giving back to people. And my life looks like changing the narrative, because one of the things that bothered me is when I came home, I felt like people kind of looked at me almost like, yo, people knew me. I always been honorable, I always been honest. I never stole. I never lied.

I always worked hard as hell, even though it was maybe it was selling weed. I was a hard work. I owned a restaurant at one point. I mean, you know, start talking. We didn't even get into that, but I'm willing to work and I'm willing to work hard. But I felt like some people kind of looked at me different when I came home. I know society looked at me different and I'm sick of it.

Because I, like now, even now, I look at it. And I'm like, yo, all these people out here got these legal marijuana licenses and they're selling weed and there's legal business and their upstanding citizens. You look at me like I'm a fucking scourge of society and a monster. When I went to prison for doing the same damn thing that you now said, oh, it's okay. No, weed's really not that bad. It's medicinal. You're right at the same time. But you're going to be branded as a felony.

You can't do this. That's why I'm begging President Trump to give me a pardon because I feel I've earned it. I feel I deserve it. And we're both from Queens. Like, he would understand if anyone would. I'm a Queens guy. Like, it's just family-oriented the way that I was raised. But getting back to the script, and there's no script.

It's all real. Everything is real. But the script is what I'm talking about, which is just flowing naturally because it's the truth. So what it looks like now is trying to help other people and trying to change the narrative one story at a time. And what do I mean by that? I have In-N-N-O-U-T. W-W, but it's Eric G with In-N-N-O-O-P podcast. if you want to look for it, because I have other people on my podcast that have been freed from some form of prison.

Whether or not they've been to prison physically or not, they're redemptive stories. And I want to change the narrative in a way that no matter what the mistake was that you made in your life, whether it was substance abuse, whether it was a momentary lapse in judgment, I've had people that have killed people before. Whether or not you was incarcerated for selling drugs like I did, you can change. And if you can change and you've served your time and you've paid your debt to society, you should be given another chance. America is the home of the second chance. So that's where my passion lies within our podcast is having people share their stories and giving them the platform to make an impact on others.

That's what I do. They're phenomenal people with unbelievable stories. That's why I'm hoping. I'm hoping that you here right now, Ian Beck, will come. I'm on ear and out because your story is incredible. And, you know, your platform is incredible, and that's why I'm happy to be here. So by having people like yourself, having people like, you know, all the others out there, I don't got to get into the names, but Johnny Mitchell, Madcock, so many others, you know,

that have done something in their life that maybe they're not necessarily proud of, having them share their stories to let the world at large know that this is who I am, Not this one moment that somebody's going to try and use to define you and say, this is who you are as a person. That's not who I am. And I've started a marketing and branding company, extraterrestrial solutions. Shout out to Tariq, my partner, my other partner, she. And, you know, and this is facts.

So, Uma Sonoma, they're probably the best cultivators on planet Earth. They're in northern California. It's legal cannabis. And we are a branding company and marketing company, extraterrestrial solutions, ETS, not only for legal cannabis, but we're one of the best at branding legal cannabis companies. And UMA Sonoma is a company that we're doing branding for.

So if you're in California, check out Uma Sonoma. They're doing branding. They're doing a deal with a major, major celebrity. I can't mention the name. They grow exclusive strains. But, you know, that's one of the things I'm doing, branding and marketing. And that's what my life looks like now, man. I'm blessed.

I'm blessed, you know, many times over. I do real estate. You know, I've got, you know, a decent amount of doors. And, you know, so I do rehabs. And I turn those rehabs into beautiful airbbs and rentals for people to be able to live in. So, you know, I'm trying to provide people with the home. But the next phase of what I'm getting into with some of my partner, is giving people somewhere to live, affordable housing when people come home.

We want to give them somewhere to live at affordable place, and then we want to also be able to give them jobs, training, skills training, and get them into a job so they don't have to re-offend. Because one thing I know, if people are given the tools to succeed, particularly, you know, people that's coming home from prison, if they're given the tools to succeed and to make money, once again, I told you that's exposure, stretching their mind. Nobody wants to be in prison.

Like a good friend of mine, Ricky Brown, said, they don't want to rob. They just want a job. So, you know, I'm trying to do everything positive, and it's all geared towards flipping the narrative to a lot of times it's the unheard, it's, you know, unspoken, you know, it's voices of people that's been marginalized.

And, you know, that's big to me. There's something else that I'm working on, and this might be, I don't know if this is going to get me into a little bit of trouble, but I'll just go ahead and say it. So I'm working with Aaron Bernstein, and he's, you know, I was able to take a trip, an amazing trip to Israel. And I know this is a hot topic. I'm just going to go ahead and say it. You know, we all know about the events that's going on in Gaza. And it turns my stomach to see people suffering in Gaza. but is people suffering and that suffered in Israel also.

People suffered at the Nova Festival in southern Israel. And recently I was able to go there as part of a trip, an exploratory trip, to go there. And I was very interested in going because I felt that I could add value to the conversation. And this, I'm not getting to right or wrong or none of that. It's not my job to do that. One thing that I do know is that if somebody gets killed, somebody's child gets killed in Atlanta, Connecticut, New York, or anywhere in the United States, if they get killed in southern Israel or if they get killed in Gaza. It's a difference without a distinction. What do I mean by that?

Somebody died and somebody's dead. And somebody died through violence, and most of the time it's gun violence. And so my thing is Let's figure out a way to stop the violence And start the healing Start to healing one story at a time Because I believe that people are people Everywhere in the world

And we have more in common Than we have differences So I was able to go and travel to Israel As a matter of fact in June And what I was able to see it Open my eyes Because honestly just being real, just keep the shit real

and gangster the way I do it, the only way I know how. When I went, I thought I was only going to see and a lot of the people that went with me. You know, my idea of Jewish people, even though I've had some of my best friends in life have been of the Jewish community, but my idea was Israel, the way it's been depicted through media

where I thought I was going to see mainly only majority white-looking Jews, or should I say, light of skinned Jews, because that's not an appropriate way to describe someone, with beards, I forget what the garb is called, but what I was impressed by was the enormous amount of diversity

that I was able to see. And I saw people that look like myself. I was impressed by a young lady that I met who could have been my daughter. She had darker complexion skin, a hair tone similar to my daughters. She was from Ethiopia, but she was an Israeli citizen.

So, you know, like I told you, I want to try and make a difference where possible. And when I went there, we were able to go all over and we was able to see that. A lot of times, you know, whatever the conflict is for, once again, I'm not here to referee that. I'm just saying that what I saw and what I experienced was an enormous amount of compassion,

an enormous amount of people that were loving, that was the best host, They offered food. They offered a place to stay. And they were hurting. And the people that I met, which were students, which were musicians, which would film, people in the film industry, they didn't have anything to do with whatever the decision makers made. I'll let everybody else, you know, make a decision to that. I, I, listen, I say, I want the situation to end.

It's horrible. I don't understand the history and what's going on in Gaza. I want to be clear about that. I'm not choosing sides. There's a tremendous, unspeakable amount of suffering and violence that's going on in Gaza. And there's a lot of hurt on the other side. And I understand, I don't understand what started it, but, you know, I just wanted to say that. And I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to say that because it's, you know, you ask what is going on with me.

That's what's going on with me. Trying to create the healing in many of different ways by using my voice. and by other people using their voice. So that's my mission, Ian. My mission is to help people, is to change narratives, is to begin the healing one story at a time because, as you know,

everybody's got a story to tell. Absolutely. Well, Eric, thanks so much for coming on the show today, brother. I appreciate that. Now, before you close out, just like that, and I imagine we're going to leave, we're going to leave something for people to go to,

but y'all make sure y'all check me out. I appreciate Ian Big for having me here on Locked In Podcast. He's been nothing but gracious and incredible host, and I would love for you all to check out my podcast at Eric G with In-N-Out Podcasts. The handler is at I-N-N-O-U-T-W. That stands for In-N-Out worldwide. As I told you earlier,

we have incredible people with redemptive stories. Come to my YouTube, hit the button, subscribe, You know we're going to leave the link at the bottom. Check me out on all forms of social media wherever you look for your podcast. This Eric G on In-N-Out podcast, and I'm here with the one and only, Ian Bick on Locked In.