Locked In with Ian Bick - I Accidentally Killed Someone — Then Had to Survive Prison | Jesse Smithers

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

Jesse Smithers was just a teenager when a street fight turned fatal, forcing him to accept a 10-year plea deal in the Minnesota prison system. In this interview, Jesse breaks down how he survived a decade behind bars only to face a new battle upon release: a system that wouldn't hire him. Pushed back into selling drugs to survive, Jesse reveals how a miraculous case dismissal became the final wake-up call he needed to leave the life of crime behind forever. _____________________________________________ #ianbick #prisonstories #minnesota #prisonsurvival #lockedin #truecrime #inmate #survival #prisonlife #minneapolis _____________________________________________ Thank you to FACTOR & AVA for sponsoring this episode: FACTOR: Head to https://factormeals.com/lockedin50off and use code lockedin50off to get 50% off your first Factor box PLUS free breakfast for 1 year. Offer only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy with Factor. _____________________________________________ AVA: Take control of your credit today. Download the Ava app and when you join using my promo code LOCKEDIN, you’ll get 20% off your first year—monthly or annual, your choice. _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 The Fight That Got Me Locked Up 02:00 Jesse’s Story Starts Here 04:40 Meeting My Dad & Family Truths 07:00 Growing Up Without a Father 10:00 Teen Sports, Trouble & Getting Put on Probation 13:20 When the Justice System Got Its Hooks in Me 16:20 First Time Locked Up: Juvenile Detention 20:20 Inside Elmore Academy: What Really Happens 27:40 Life Right Before Everything Went Wrong 32:00 The Night Everything Changed 36:00 After the Incident: Shock, Panic & Arrest 41:00 Tried as an Adult & Facing Serious Time 49:40 Courtroom Strategy: Lawyers, Bail & Playing the Game 01:00:00 The Case, Community Rumors & Hidden Plea Deal Pressure 01:10:00 Sentencing Day: Victim Statements & Walking Into Prison 01:18:00 First Time in State Prison 01:25:00 Prison Politics 101: How to Survive Inside 01:36:00 Fights, Gangs & the Real Rules of Prison 01:43:00 Stillwater Prison: Violence, Wars & Survival Stories 01:56:00 Getting Out of Prison & Starting Over from Nothing 02:05:00 Life After Release: Temptation of Fast Money 02:19:00 Back in the Game: Drug Dealing, Addiction & Another Arrest 02:30:00 New Case, New Charges & Choosing Sobriety 02:41:00 Turning Point: Recovery, Family & Real Success 02:50:00 What I’d Tell Any Kid Before They Ruin Their Life Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And so like I had said, just from being young and dumb, I had been in the plenty of fights. And it was just, I never heard that sound before. heard that sound before of somebody, you know, hitting the ground. My guest today was just a teenager when a street fight turned deadly, landing him a 10-year sentence in the Minnesota prison system. Jesse Smithers walks us through how he survived a decade behind bars and what happened when he got out and realized the system still wouldn't let him move forward. Where'd you grow up, Jesse? I'm from Miami. We came to, we moved to Minnesota when I was like five. And so I got, grew up in Minnesota. That's a big difference.

Big difference, yeah. Why'd they pick Minnesota? We had family out there. So, and then we was living at in Florida, it wasn't really a good, a good spy out in Miami. It's like even the bad spots are expensive, you know, like rent, mortgage, whatever. It's expensive out there, just period. So we had family in Minnesota, and that's where we ended up. Who raised you? My mom, my grandma, my aunt.

Where was your dad? He was in the feds. My dad was in the feds for 15 years for drugs. How old are you when you found out about your dad? I'll say I was probably like 10 when I started asking about my dad. Like, I used to ask my mom, like, what's my dad look like? And she, like, look in the mirror. It looks just like you.

and so I remember we had this mirror where you could like it was three mirror panels and you could like push the bottom corner and you know it opens up into a medicine cabinet and I used to put my face in it open up both ends and like close my face in like this and I'd see just a bunch of like million reflections of me and I just stare at it all day just like thinking like damn like there's somebody out there that you know looks like me but um Yeah, I started asking probably around like 10 or 11. And then one day, I think my mom probably just got tired of me, like, asking her about my dad. So she went on Facebook.

And this was kind of like when Facebook was really starting to, like, take over from, like, MySpace. And she went on Facebook and started scrolling. And I remember she clicked on this one profile. And it was like this guy, he didn't look too good, right? And I was hoping, like, I pray that's not my dad right there. And she's like, no, this one ain't him. And then she scrolled down and was like, oh, this is him right here. And that's, like, how I first seen my dad initially.

And then we wrote him on Facebook. And, you know, she said, hey, whatever, Shannon. I'm Shannon. And, you know, we have a son. And he instantly, like, remembered, obviously. And he, like, ended up. sending for me. We got like a DNA test and then once, you know, it was real, even though he knew it was, he knew I was his kid, but because we look exactly the same. But once the DNA test and everything was good, then I flew back out to Miami. And I remember it was like, you know, it was 12. And I got on the plane for the first time, like by myself. Like my mom brought me to the airport. And I went through TSA, did all that by myself. And then that's how I met my dad. So did he just get out of prison at that point? out of prison. So it was kind of crazy how

we ended up, like, searching him because he had got out, like, a month or two prior to us searching him on Facebook. So, yeah, he just got out of prison. He was, he did, like, his whole, all his 30s, I think. He got locked up when he was, like, 20, in late 20s, and then came home when he was, like,

40-something, somewhere in there. So your mom had you young? Yeah. Yeah, she had, I mean, she was 18, so kind of young, kind of, a young, I guess, yeah. And she had no relationship with your dad then either. No, so like, so what happened with my mom and my dad was they met at Denny's. They were working at a Denny's in Miami and, uh, they, you know, working or whatever together started dating and my mom got pregnant. And she told my dad that, you know, she's pregnant. My dad's like,

oh, you know, I'm gonna, um, I want a family. I'm gonna, you know, do what I got to do. Take care. You know, the whole little spiel. And he was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, um, I'm gonna, um, I'm gonna, um, I'm gonna. And he was like, I'm going to go work with my dad. I'm Haitian. My dad's from Haiti. So he's like, I'm going to go work with my dad for a little bit. My mom, I think she said she thought he was into, like, construction or something like that on the side. And so he left and was supposed to come back and, you know, they were going to have this family.

And got some drugs, brought him up to Philly, and got indicted in Philly by the feds. And then she just never, because she didn't know anything about his life in Philly. He's got other kids, like my brother and my two sisters that are in Philly. He's got other kids out there, but she didn't know that. So she just thought he left and just thought that, you know, just wasn't going to stick around or whatever. He just ghosted her. But the whole time he ended up going to prison, and we just never knew.

What did you think about your dad being in prison when you found out? That he was in prison. Did you know much about prison at that point or was that new to you? No, I know. I mean, I've had uncles that's been in prison, out of prison, in prison, like back and forth. So it didn't really buy, I didn't look down on him for it or anything like that, you know. But, and I had a pretty good life with the females that raised me. Like my mom, my grandma, my aunt, they all did a really good life.

job it was primarily my grandma that raised us it's seven kids i got five brothers and two sisters so well including me so my grandma really raised all of us and my mom was always working so she was like in and out kind of but she was always around and so i never really i never really um cared about meeting my dad like that it was more so just like being young and being in school and you know other kids would be like, I'm going fishing with my dad for spring break, you know, or whatever the case is. And it's just, like, damn, it was just kind of like a void that I had where it was like, you know, I don't got a dad, you know, and I hear everybody else talking about their dad. So it kind of like made me, I wouldn't say, made me envious. It just kind of made me curious, you know, where I started

really thinking more about like, man, I want to meet my dad. Like, is he open to meeting me or is he just gone? You know, like, where he just don't care. But, yeah, he was open to meeting and got to the airport. It was just really weird because I met him. I was 12 or 13 when we ended up meeting when I went to the airport and he came and got me. And I remember he pulled up to the airport. he had an infinity G35X.

It was real nice back then. It was like 2008, I think it was. It was like the same year. It was super nice. He was like banging GZ when he pulled up. I'm like, I got a good dad. Like he's getting off to a good start. Like, you know, but it just kind of started, you know,

me being around another man was a little weird for me because I didn't grow up with the dad. I grew up with women. So it was like, you know, he'll like grab. have the back of my neck and I'll like move my head like bro like your hands are strong as hell like I'm like stop you know you're like I'm your dad you're my son I can do that but it's just like we don't have that bond yet you know or I'll be like laying in the bed um he'll come in there and like lay by me and watch TV I'm like oh like can you move over a little bit like what are you doing like what like

bro like you got to get used to you know having a man around and but he always had good intentions he He's a good dad. Like, you know, when I ended up going to prison, he was there really for everything that I, whenever I called for if I needed money or whatever it really was, he was there for the most part. So he did good for the situation. Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere in the crowd. But too often, life gets busy. or the price hold you back.

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Do you think the result would have been the same, meaning do you think you would have ended up in prison with or without your dad in your life? I don't know. It's kind of hard to say. I mean, you know, dads are more of like the discipline. So maybe he would have been on my back a little bit more. And that kind of, maybe that would have like, you know, I don't know. I'm not, honestly, I'm not really sure if I would have, I would like to say no.

You know, like once you end up kind of hearing about, you know, what got me sent to prison, And it's kind of hard to answer that question because it was just unexpected, you know. What were you like as a kid? What's teenage Jesse like? I played a lot of sports. I like football a lot, which now that I'm 30, you know, I'm wishing I would have took it way more serious. But I played sports. I like the girls running around in the streets, sneaking out of the house,

sneaking girls into my room. I got five, it's five brothers in total, so I have four other brothers. And we're all pretty close in age, right? So I always had my brothers, you know? So it's like, even if I wasn't around my friends, it was like my brothers were my friends, you know? So, and my older brother, he was kind of

kind of a troublemaker too, which that's kind of where I started going, like, left a little bit, I'll say, because I got put on probation. They were on probation initially first, so my two brothers are twins. They're a year older than me. They were on probation. I thought it was cool. Like, I don't know why. I just thought it was cool. Like, the PO comes to the house, and it's just childish. But, you know, back then it was like, you know, like it just seemed cool I guess and remember I got put on probation for a curfew ticket and when I ended up getting put on probation for that ultimately I never ended up getting off of you know um like I didn't like successfully be what discharged or released off of probation what it was for like a year or something

it was like I violate getting to a fight or something like that with somebody I'd get violated or I'd be smoking weed or something. I'd get violated. And that ultimately led all the way up to when I ended up catching my case and going to prison. So I went from probation to parole, and it all started with the curfew ticket. That's kind of crazy how the curfew ticket leads to probation. Yeah. Yeah, it is crazy.

And it was like... And this is in Florida? No, this was in Minnesota. Okay. But it was like, I was with my cousin Chops, and we were in the alley of our house. house and we were walking to the house and I think it was like like 10 30 or something like that and I think curfews 10 or something I don't I didn't even know there was a curfew for kids like underage kids like that and then the cops pulled up and normally we would like run from the cops because we always just

just kind of how we grew up running from cops and doing all of that just crazy stuff so um he pulled up But I'm like, you know, we're good. Like, we don't have nothing on us. Like, so we really don't have any reason to run. So we stayed there and just didn't know what he was doing. And he ended up, like, brought us, what, probably 40 feet to our house and gave us tickets for curfew. And that's where kind of everything started with, like, my life with the justice system. It's kind of how I got entangled into it.

It was all started with a curfew ticket. Cold days, big goals, and no time to cook. And trust me, I've eaten food where the goal was just survival. If you've ever had prison food, you know exactly what I mean. Mystery meat, soggy vegetables, zero flavor, zero nutrition. When I got out, I promised myself one thing. I'm never eating like that again. That's why I use Factor. My go-to right now is our high-protein meals, especially during February when I'm locked in on the gym and routine. These aren't frozen TV dinners pretending to be healthy. They're made with lean proteins, colorful vegetables, whole food ingredients, and healthy fats, no refined sugars, no artificial sweeteners, and no refined seed oils.

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wondering how you messed up your diet again. I use this, and if you're trying to stay locked in and not eat like you're back on commissary food, you should too. Head to factorneals.com slash locked in 50 off and use code locked in 50 off to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. Eat like a pro this month with factor. New subscribers only varies by plan. One free breakfast item per box for one year while subscription is active. I'm surprised there was no like rehabilitation program or diversion program for you. Yeah, I don't know if they do that. I don't know if they do that with kids though like diversion programs or anything like that. But yeah, so then after the curfews, started the curfew ticket after I ended up getting that.

Like I said, I was getting violated just for different, just stupid shit, like, um, fighting a lot, um, with just different kids that, you know, we used to, like, have our group of friends and we get into it with other kids and, um, smoking, we, partying, drinking and being young, being like 13 and, you know, 14 years old. So I ended up going to, um, juvenile, I've been to basically, I've been to, to probably like six or seven juvenile center. No, not that many. Maybe like five, but I don't know how many there is.

I think I've been to most of them in Minnesota of the juvenile centers out there. For a long period at the time? The longest period was 10 months. And that was right before, that was, it was on the border. It was South Minnesota on the border of Iowa. It was like a block away from Iowa. It was called Elmore Academy. And, man, I still remember.

how that happened. So like I had my mom called me one day and she's like you got to come straight home after school like don't go and do anything else like come straight home. So I kind of thought it was weird but I didn't really question it. So I was like okay like I'll be home so I get on the bus come home and I'm laying in my bed and all of a sudden I hear like stand for it. I don't know I'm like, what the hell? I'm like, what's going on? And all of a sudden, two cops walk in my room. I'm like, what the fuck?

Like, I'm like, what's up? They're like, are you, you know, said my name? I'm like, for what? And they're like, we have a warrant out for your arrest. I was like, what? And I'm like, I was about to call my mom. I called for my mom. And she's standing behind them.

So I'm like, mom, like, what's going on? Like, she's like, just go with them. I'm like, no. No, I don't want to go. go with them like why and she's like just give me your chain give me your bracelet because i always had like a chain or a bracelet and she like just take it off give it to me so they end up walking me out they cuff me walk me out the house and um i'm in the back seat and i'm like she's walking out with me and she's outside of the police car and i'm like mom like get me out of here like what's going

like i don't know i don't even know what's it i almost felt like i was being like kidnapped or something Like, I don't know what I did wrong. And she's like, I'm going to talk to Carrie. That was my PO's name. She's going to talk to Carrie. And we're going to figure it out. But, you know, because my mom used to, like, now when I look back, I, you know, I can see where it's like she was just trying to help me, you know. But in the moment being a kid, it's like, why are you telling my PO that I smoked weed, you know?

Like, because then she comes in UA's me and I failed the test and then I get violated. and then she sends me to a juvenile center. Or like, why did you say that, why did you tell her that I got into a fight? You know, like, things like that. So I kind of started getting this resentment as a kid, you know. Like I said, now looking back, it's like I can see where, you know, her thought process as a woman, you know, with, you know, five boys and two of them are crazy and they're always getting into trouble. I can see the thought process as like I'm just trying to help him, you know, because, you know, he's not going to listen to me, you know, like, so I see it. But it's still just like, man, I don't know. I felt like there could have been another way to go about that situation. But like I was saying, they end up bringing me to a juvenile center called Prairie Lakes. It's in Wilmer, Minnesota. It's about 50 minutes from where I live. I live for like 40 minutes outside of Minneapolis. So I'm thinking I'm going to do a few days and then I'm going to go home because that's normally kind of how it goes.

You know, you just do these little holds and then you're released or whatever. And we go to court and my PO is like, yeah, we're recommending the long term program at Elmore Academy. And so I'm like, because my brother that, my older brother that I was telling you about that kind of getting in trouble too, he was just in Elmore Academy. I mean, he was telling me all these crazy stories and just wild stuff. And he did almost a year in there. So I'm like, man, I know this long-term program is going to be at least nine months. Then I'm going to have to be there. And that's the longest I've ever been away, you know, from home.

So I was crying, like, you know, buggers coming out my nose. Like, please don't let them take me. Like, I don't want to go, like, recommend a 30-day program and I'll change. you know um but they ended up sending me to elmore academy for um nine to twelve months was the program um so i went there and i think that is kind of where um i think that program because it's closed now but i feel like i kind of learned my finessing ways in there And which is bad. Now that I look back is like, I wish I could do so much different.

But, you know, it was like the kids really ran that juvenile center. And if you were a week, the COs would pick on you. Like, they restrain you. So, like, they'd put your arms behind your back and, like, kind of, like, have you like this up against the wall. And then if you don't calm down, they slam you. And obviously, you don't have your arms because, They got them behind your back. So you go full force into the ground with Mr. Halupka's body weight, you know, on your back.

And it was a co-ed juvenile center. So there was women, there was girls there too. And, you know, I've seen girls, like, getting slammed on their face. And I remember because we have, like, a basketball team there and a football team. So we were the Elmore Wildcats. And middle of a basketball game. Mr. Anderson. It was a CEO there named Mr. Anderson. It was another, it was a kid there that I was, he was in, I was in the older kids unit because I think I was 16 when I went to Elmore. And middle of the basketball game, we play other schools like that are around that neighbor, I mean, like that neighbor, Elmore, like other little cities, they come to the juvenile center. And we play basketball games or we might, if it's an away game, we might go to them. Same thing with football. And Mr. Anderson grabbed Anthony and slammed them on the

sideline behind the visitor's bench, slammed them. And Anthony couldn't have been no more than maybe 85, 90 pounds. And they slammed them right on his face and it put a hole right in his chin. And it was so deep you could like see. I don't know if it was a bone. or what it was, but it was just a hole, a deep hole in his chin. There was blood everywhere. And that's, the game ended up obviously, like, getting, like, they stopped the game. There's blood all over the floor. And that was one of the, because Anthony ended up suing Elmore, and that was one of the incidents that happened that got Elmore Academy closed down. Another one was, it was this kid in there, a little white kid named Levi.

and we were out at the football field and this CO slammed Levi and they'll lay on top of you to like control your breathing to get you to calm down but they'll have your arms like I said behind your back and another CO usually comes to like you know help and they'll stand there if they have to like if you're down sometimes they'll have you on the ground for an hour or two hour straight so they'll have to like tag in and tag out so um this CO came and had Levi slammed on the ground and was like had his arms and then another CO walked up and started pulling his arms can't really explain exactly how it like went but his arms were behind his back and they started like pulling yanking on his arm and pulling it to the point where his whole arm turned blue and he's like you're gonna break my arm

you're gonna break my arm but they didn't care you know and ultimately they ended up getting closed down and there was a lot of lawsuits that kids filed and you know I kind of felt bad because I never got messed with like that by the COs um I was kind of like in good with everybody you know so like I had one CO in there. He was an older guy. He used to, I used to pay him to, he would give me his phone at the start of his shift and I would pay him money because Elmar Academy, they have a Wildcat cafe. And if you are a certain level, because it goes up to level four, so if you're a level three or four, you can go work at the Wildcat Cafe and then you get tips. And so, I was working there. I'd get tips. And instead of splitting and then giving them to the CO to count and she would like divvy it all up, the guy, one of my guys that I was working with, we would just pocket our tips and say we didn't really make nothing because down there, it was, you know, some people can be racist, you know, especially it's a lot of old people and some of them are kind of set in their ways. So sometimes we really didn't get no tips.

You know, we might have been in there eight hours, no tips. So it didn't really, they didn't really think anything of it if I'm like, I didn't make any money today, you know? So I ended up, you know, making a lot of money. And I left home. When I ended up getting released and going home, I had like a nice lot of money. And I used to pay the CO's phone bill. I'd give him the money for his phone bill. And he would give me his phone.

And then I started, like, thinking, like, man. what if I could get him to bring in like some chew? Because they can smell cigarettes. You know, it's hard to smoke for kids to smoke a cigarette. But they would take chew for sure. So I had Mr. Berg, I would give him money. He'd go and bring me in a few tens of chew. And I would just divvy that up, like almost like I'm selling weed in there, but it's

chew. And because kids get allowances every week. and their families can send them money, or it might be every two weeks you get an allowance. But, so they would buy from me, and I was always stocked, you know, because the CEO was bringing it to me. And then one day, me and my guy was in our room, and we were using the phone, and I go use the bathroom.

When I come back in the room, he's like, Mr. Berg's a sex offender. I'm like, he's a sex offender. He's like, yeah, like these girls are trying to blackmail them. And they were like, I guess, I don't know, he did some crazy stuff with some girl or something like that. And all this crazy stuff. So that ended up coming out. And not from like me or my guy.

Just ended up getting out there like after, you know, maybe a month or two later. And they ended up letting them go. But a lot of COs there was, because like I said, it was co-ed. So when we would go to school each day, the dorms. is different. It's like you walk through a little breezeway and now you're in the school. So everybody would have like their girlfriend in there and you know you'd be like um locker seven and you know they'd go to locker seven you'd have your note in there and then they'd write and whatever. One day we go open the locker and I grab this note out and it's from Mr. Potter.

Like one of the COs and he's old. He's like a 60 year old CEO. He's talking to one of the girls and she's like one of the younger girls too because there's like an older unit and there's a younger unit she was kind of like one of the younger girls in the younger unit and i'm like what the fuck like mr potter and he was my um my primary so like when i would level up like i'd go from like a level two to a level three he'd take me out like you know they might bring you into the uh city like what was it like fairmont or something like that bring you out there let you get some food or whatever. And I seen that and I'm like, oh, like, oh, that's weird.

And but yeah, like I said, ultimately it ended up getting shut down. I think it was just the physicalness of how these COs would handle us kids and the predatoryness. You know, like, so they ended up shutting that down. So I was released from Elmore and I did 10 months, but I was like I said, I was kind of finessing. I'd finesse my grade sheets so I could get my levels faster. Or I'd like have the CO like give me good levels, good evals. They were called e-vals. So they'd give me good eval.

So you got to maintain like, you know, if you're going for your level three, you got to maintain at least a 3.0, you know, eval. It's kind of complicated to explain, but you got to maintain whatever level you're going for. You have to maintain that for a week to level up. So I ended up getting out of Elmore, but it wasn't like a good discharge. It was a bad, I don't know, I can't remember what they, like the terminology that they used for it. But basically they said that, yeah, he got his level four because that's what I needed to get out. I needed to get my level four. Usually it takes a year to get it.

I got mine in nine months. So they were kind of like, you know, I don't know. And they knew I really wasn't doing good in there. I wasn't like an upstanding student. I'd get into fights and, you know, whatever. So they ended up letting me go. And then I thought I was going home. But then they sent me back to Prairie Lakes, another juvenile center.

So then I had to do 30 days, basically to prove, that I'm changed, you know? So I went to Prairie Lakes for 30 days. Now, this was July of 2012. I ended up getting out of Prairie Lakes in August of 2012. So I did 30 days. They sent me home on an ankle bracelet. So I go from Elmore, nine months, Prairie Lakes, 30 days. Then I go home on an ankle monitor. I had to do 30 days on the ankle monitor, so I ended up getting off like early September, right? Like the first week of September or something.

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or minor nuisance nuggets, definitely Diablo. New Diablo-Diablo-dusted crispy chicken nuggets, a brand-new classic. Only at Taco Bell. At participating U.S. Taco Bell locations for a limited time and while supplies last. I don't like that. You know, and I'm a senior, it was my senior year. of high school and, you know, I'm back playing football,

back around all my friends. And, you know, I'm just thinking, like, man, like, I'm getting, I'm almost 18. Well, I was always, like, the younger kid of my class, you know, like, so everybody else would turn 18 before me because of my birthday is in the summertime. So everybody during, like, the school year, they'll be 17, going on 18 or whatever.

And so I was always, like, one of the younger students. but um yeah so i ended up um doing pretty good after i got out school was going good my grades were doing pretty good and one night we got a big um not necessarily a big college but we've got a state St. Cloud State University. And my house was maybe, maybe like a mile from St. Cloud State. So we used to go and, you know, go party with the college kids or whatever.

And so this night, I remember it's so crazy how things end up working out. But I'm with two of my best friends. One girl. And then it was this sophomore that he played. I used to play slot receivers. So it was a sophomore that was pretty good at football. So they basically had me like mentoring them, like going over plays with them.

So we'd run routes and, you know, do whatever, try to get them like to get the plays down. And so ultimately we ended up becoming friends after, you know, just being around each other playing football. So him and his girlfriend are with us. So what is that? Like six of us. And we're in a Dodge Intrepid. You know, they're kind of wider cars. And so it's me, two of my guys in the back and one of my home girls.

We're all back in the backseat. Junior and Casey, Casey's driving juniors in the passenger seat. Now we're going down this alley. and on campus because we got this address that, well, I ended up getting a few different addresses. And so we were really just kind of scoping out which party was looking the best. And then we was going to go to that party. So the first address we were going to, you can't park on the main street. You got to go around into the alley and that's where all the driveways are.

And so we go through the alley. And I remember Mancato State University. There was a football game that night. And so there was a bunch of Mancato kids that were in St. Cloud too. So it was just people everywhere out there. And we're going down this alley and it's this one guy and he's got two girls with him. Like he's holding, he's in the middle and they're each holding one of his hands. And so Casey stops the car because the alley's really narrow and she stops the car.

And one of the girls, you can tell, like, she was super drunk. Like, she was like, she said something. It started, like, hitting the back window, like, punching the window of the car. It was the window, like, it was the seat behind the driver's seat. So she started, like, punching that window or whatever. And I didn't really think nothing of it. One, it's not my car. And, too, this is, like, just some drunk girl, you know, that's just being dumb.

So Casey obviously thinks different. You know, it's her car. And so she gets out the car and, like, runs up to the girl. I don't know if she was, like, trying to fight her or if she was just trying to confront her, you know. And but she was in, like, a full jumpsuit. She had, like, her hood up and stuff. So I'm guessing, like, all right. So anyway, she runs up.

The guy ends up swinging on her is what she said because I really wasn't watching. She runs back to the car Oh my God Jesse He just tried to hit me He just tried to hit me So which it was still kind of weird And I still think about it sometimes Like why does she open my door

You know like her boyfriend was in the passenger seat You know and I mean That's your girlfriend you know So it's kind of on you To you know be there for her And make sure that she's protected Or even just be like Don't get out the car

What are you doing? You know but So you know I get out the car and me and the guy kind of going back and forth just not a long time maybe just a few seconds

and the girls are like getting in my face and I'm trying to like move them and nobody else got out the car it's really just me they're all like my guys they're just kind of standing back by the car and

so one of the girls is pushing Colton back that was his name and another girl is pushing me like back and I'm like moving her out the way and I swing and I hit him

and I like hit him somewhere on the side of his face and he dropped and when he dropped I heard his head hit the ground hard like it hit the ground really hard it was like I still hear like I can still remember the noise you know in my head

if I just think back to that day and he hit the ground and he was just instantly and we sleep. And so like I had said, just from being young and dumb, I had been into plenty of fights, you know, and it was just, I never heard that sound before of somebody, you know, hitting the ground. So it was like, I didn't really think nothing of it, but I just knew that it was just a little weird that, you know, that noise was just a little weird to me. So once he falls down, one of my best friends comes running up

and I'm guessing he's probably going to try to kick him or something and I grabbed him like fuck that let's go let's just leave and he's like at least run his pockets like what the fuck and I'm like no like let's just go you know and yeah so when we get in the car we leave go back home throw our clothes on that we're going to be wearing out go back to that party or it was a party like a block away or something like that but we ended up going back out going to a party

and this was Thursday um September 20th 2012 and it's crazy how you can go through like a traumatic event and you can remember everything you know like even just the smell of the day like the temperature like everything and um so Friday September 21st um it's early in the morning I'm getting ready to go to school and I walk out in the kitchen and my mom's always on her laptop and like, you know, reading the paper on her laptop and she's like, did you hear somebody died last night? I was like, what? Like, yeah, somebody died on campus. And I was like, oh, I'm like, no, I didn't hear that.

I'm like, I didn't hear anything about that. She's like, yeah, she's like, did you get into a fight last night? I was like, no. And because it really wasn't a fight, I guess I just hit somebody, you know? But I mean, just going through what I went through with my mom when I was younger, I probably wouldn't have told her, yeah, anyway. But it was like, I'm like, no, I didn't. And she's like, okay, yeah, it says somebody got out of a car and punched somebody.

And he ended up dying this morning. And I was like, what? And so instantly, I started thinking, like, maybe, like, but probably not because there's so many people out there. and there's always fights happening. But the circumstance kind of matched what kind of happened, you know? So I kind of just go about my day and go to school. And then all of a sudden I start getting texts to my phone. Like, Jesse, that guy you hit last night's dead.

I'm like, don't text me that. Like, you know, if you want to talk about that, like call me or like we can meet up or something but don't text me like something like that and I'm really it's really not even because I'm really too young to even know about like the don't text and don't do it was really just I was in denial about the situation you know so it was like um it was kind of like you know and then I felt like everybody like kept coming at me with this like man and it's like how does everybody know already that I'm the one that punched this guy, you know? Um, so yeah, the weekend goes by. Nothing happens. I have court on Monday, September 24th of 2012. And I tell my brother that was with me

that night, I tell him like, um, like, what if I get locked up when I go to court? And he's like, bro, like, you're not going to get locked up like you're good like and then you know if you don't get locked up you know you're good so i'm like all right bet like say less like like we'll see so i go to court court went good like court went good i guess i can't really remember exactly what it was that i was going to court for but it was something with my um probation officer um and court go oh i went oh i was getting put back on house rest that's what it was for. So, um, I end up leaving court and they're like, you got to go to the, um, the place where they put your monitor on or whatever. And so I'm like, okay, so my mom calls me and

she's like, um, I'm gonna give you or no, we, I forget exactly how it ended up going, but I end up going to get the ankle monitor on and we go home and I still remember, and I still remember, I remember I'm arguing with, like, back then, it was like my heist. We had been together since, like, seventh grade. And we're, like, texting and arguing back and forth. And all of a sudden, I hear, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom. And I'm kind of, like, in a day, because I was kind of sleeping, but I was still kind of awake. And then I hear my grandma, like, why the fuck is there detectives at the door?

And so, like, I'm just laying there. I'm really awake, you know, because I really, like, wondering if they're, like, there for me. And, um, all of a sudden I hear my mom, Jesse, Jesse. Jesse! I'm like, so, and like me, I'm always thinking I can just talk my way out of something, you know, so it's like, I go to the door, there's two detectives there, and they're like, are you, so-and-so, I'm like, yeah. And they started asking me, like, you know,

Where were you at? Blah, blah, blah. And we had already kind of came up when I say we, like me and my best friends. I call my best friends my brothers. So I don't want, like, your fans to get, like, confused or anything like that. But so me and my brothers had already kind of came up with a story. Like, oh, we're going to be, we're going to tell if they asked anything. We're going to tell them we were at our own house the whole night.

We didn't leave, not thinking that our phones are pinging off these same towers, you know, on campus. So I end up, we're standing in my front yard and they're like asking me these questions. And I'm like, no, I wasn't there. They're like, oh, like, have you heard about what happened? I'm like, yeah, I heard. Like my mom had said something to me a few days ago. But that's all I really know about it. And I remember they looked at my hands and I didn't have nothing wrong with my hands.

And all of a sudden, one of a sudden, one. detective, he walks off and he gets on the phone. And I'm trying to like, like, kind of like follow him a little bit because I don't know what he's doing. I don't know who he's talking to, but I hear murder. And all of a sudden he like stops, turns back around like, all right, we're going to be placing you under arrest for second degree unintentional murder. And like my heart just like drop but you know in that moment like I didn't cry I didn't like fall to my knees I was kind to just um like I almost kind of felt dead you know like I couldn't smell nothing I couldn't feel the wind I couldn't like all I heard was my mom started screaming and crying and uh yeah so then they

started cuffing me and then like my they did it in front of my little brother and my little sister And I'm like, you know, could you like put the cuffs in the front so I could like hug my family? And they're like, yeah, that's fine. So they put the cuffs in the front. And they put the cuffs in the front, said by to my family. They brought me to, oh, and then my mom was like, don't talk to my son. I'm getting them a lawyer. Don't say a word to them.

Like, don't talk to the police. Just shut up. And so I'm like, all right, you know. And so they bring me down to the jail. And they're booking me in. And they're like, okay, what's your date first and last name? Give my first and last name. They're like, what's your date of birth?

I'm like 7.15.95. And the guy, like, started counting. Like, you just turned 17 years old. And I was like, yeah. And he was like, you can't be here. You got to go to the juvenile center. I was so mad because I had already been to these juvenile centers. I know you can't talk.

Like you can't really interact with, like the one that they're going to send me to. You know, you can't really interact or anything like that. So they end up asking me, like, you want to go back to Prairie Lakes or you want to go back to Lino? And I had been to both of them already. So it was kind of like picking like the better out of the shittiest ones, you know. So I went to Prairie Lakes because it was a little bit closer to home. And that was Monday, September 24 of 2012. And so I had to go to the Juvenile Center, and I was going through my certification process so they could certify me as an adult.

My PO came to visit me. And now this is the same PO that I've had since I was like 12 or 13 years old. And she comes to visit me, and she's got a big stack of papers. And she's like, I got to go through all these papers with you. and it was like, like, I don't know, I don't know exactly what it was for, but it was probably something to do with my certification or whatever. And then she just started crying out of nowhere. And, you know, this lady had locked me up multiple times.

So it was like, it kind of shocked me when I seen her crying. I'm like, damn, what the fuck are you crying for? Like, I'm the one sitting, you know, fighting a murder charge right now. And she's like, you know, I'm sorry. You're going through this. And, you know, I know it's a really unfortunate situation. And, you know, they're probably going to certify you as an adult. And so I was like, okay, like, I already, like, I already kind of figured that, you know.

And I couldn't imagine spending three years in this place, you know. So, or four years, however long, EJJ is like till you're 21, I think, or something. So, yeah, so they ended up certifying me as an adult. adult, and then I went to the county jail. When you come home from prison, nobody really explains how credit works. They just expect you to magically have it. I learned the hard way that bad credit doesn't just follow you. It controls you.

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It was my mindset was completely different because going from a juvenile center where you can't talk to anybody, you journal all day. if you want to ask somebody something you got to like raise your hand the seal like be like what's up jesse like can i ask a peer question and then we're like what's the question you're like i wanted to ask him if he ever had a whopper from burger king like nope that's talking about the ouch you can't talk about that okay if you um then you got to like sit and snitch on each other you know like in your journal you got everybody's name wrote down it's just like a notebook paper every single day you have to make a new paper and you write everybody's name down then you have your plus side and then you have your um your negative side right and so and you're just sitting in silence all day so there it's

kind of you it's kind of hard to spot things but for instance like if somebody gets out of his chair and he bumps into somebody it's called um dp ic um which stands for what is it Oh, no, if he didn't, if he gets out of his chair and doesn't push in his chair, you put DPI for didn't push in chair. You know, if you bump into somebody, you put, and that's a negative. You would put, if you, like, bump into somebody by accident, you know, I might step on your shoe by accident while we're in line getting our lunch tray. And you got to write APC, which is accidental personal contact or, like, there's so many different abbreviations for, just nitpick stuff, you know? So for me, they would, the COs would kind of be on me because I'm like, man, like, I'm not going to sit here and nitpick at everybody and watch what everybody's doing.

So I never would have negatives for people like that. And the COs really didn't care because they knew I wasn't going to be here long. They knew I was going to end up getting certified. So they kind of just left me alone, you know. But I still remember the day I got certified and I ended up leaving. Two COs from the county jail that I live in came to get me. And I was asking them questions because, you know, it's an hour car ride back to the jail. And I'm like, you know, can we, can we watch TV? And they're like, yeah, you can watch TV, like in the jail, you know. I'm like, yeah, you can watch TV. Okay. I'm like, can we cuss? I'm like, what?

Can you cuss? Like, I mean, you're grown. I guess you can cuss if you want to cuss. Okay. Like, can I call anybody I want to call? I'm like, yes. Like, what the fuck's going on in that juvenile center? Like, what's going like, man, you know, it's like, it's crazy.

Like, you can't do none of that. And then, you know, like, they'd sit because my case was high profile. They would sit. Like, I couldn't have, like, a visit just me and my mom. The CEO would always be there. in the visiting room with me and my mom. And, you know, he'd be acting like he's reading a paper or whatever. But he's listening to every single thing that I talked to my mom about,

listen to my phone calls, everything. So it just felt good to get out of there. And even though I'm still locked up, I just felt more freedom going to the county. So I was in the county for 15 months, I think, fighting my case. There's no option for bail whatsoever. A million dollar bail was my bail. it was 500,000 with conditions, a million without conditions. So we don't have $500,000, you know, and, or I guess it would have been like $50,000, but then we don't have equity in $500,000, you know, to cover the rest.

So my mom told me, like, the public defender initially that they gave me, she was really nice. And she was like, you know, we got a whole group of trial experts that were bringing on for you, you know, we really want to help you with this case. And like she was begging me to let them keep my case. But I'm thinking she's trying to like swindle me, you know, and just feed me to the wolves. So I'm like, no. Like my mom said that she'll get me a lawyer. I'm going to get a lawyer. So we ended up getting a lawyer. He was like this big shot lawyer. He was like ranked number two at the time in Minnesota. And I remember. My guy that I was in jail with, he, like, it kind of put me on with the lawyer. And his name was William Bowmer and came to see me. And he's like, yeah, you know, normally, he was just talking all this shit. Like, he was just this, just, he was just the best guy ever. You know, he's like, oh, I'm from New Orleans. I fought a lot of murder cases in New Orleans and blah, blah.

And I'm thinking, like, getting a lawyer from Minneapolis. is better because, you know, they fight bigger. There's not a lot of murders that happen in St. Cloud, Minnesota, where I'm from. Um, so my case was like, like, one of the first outside of like this other situation that ended up happening. So it was like really big out there at the time. Um, so and it's, it's, uh, it's, it's, you know, like, it's different because I didn't like shoot somebody or I didn't stab somebody or I didn't like, shoot into a house and accidentally hit somebody. And I'm not trying to downplay or justify what happened that night.

But looking at this situation, just outside looking in, you know, you don't expect to kill somebody if you hit them one time. You know, you just don't expect for that to happen. But then again, you know, things in life are unexpected. You know, like, things happen. So, but you know, you just, nobody has that on their mind that, you know, if I fight this guy, there's a good chance I could kill him. You know, like, you think I have to try to kill you in order to kill you. You know what?

Like, you know, so it was kind of like, yeah, yeah, I forget where I was at, though. What's the attorney telling you while you're in county? Yeah, so he's basically just telling me everything good. You know, like, man, this isn't, this isn't going to be a hard case. They got you charged with murder. So my charges were second degree unintentional murder, first degree manslaughter, first degree assault. And he's like, I'm going to get these.

He said, the most that you would be looking at is a manslaughter if we went to trial. You would be, he said, the murder, they're not going to find you guilty of that murder. But he said we're really would be going for like an acquittal in this case. And, you know, every lawyer tells you know what you want to hear and just all this good stuff. And then he's like, okay, well, my fee is, I think it was like $27,000 or $30,000 or something like that. So, and obviously I'm a kid. So my mom ended up getting him for me. She asked me like, you know, do you want him?

Like, do you like them? I'm like, yeah, I like him. He was cocky. Kind of like that. You know, I like, you know, he was cocky, but he was sure of himself is what I kind of felt. So his suits were real nice. You know, he wasn't all dingy and dirty looking and or, you know, just like looking rough, you know. So I was like, all right, this guy, he's got the look, you know.

So I felt like I could trust them, you know. And like we'll get a little bit more into that because it kind of ended up backfiring it on me. But yeah, so we ended up retaining him. And, um, Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero, more like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. Thanks, yours too!

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Do you think it would have made a difference Between a public defender or a paid attorney? I mean, after how everything played out, I wish I would have just stayed with a public defender And not even put that burden on my mom because there's pros and cons to getting a lawyer, especially a lawyer from outside of your city, you know, having the public defender, she knows these judges, you know, she knows these prosecutors. You know, like she was a respected public defender too. So, and she knows just how things work. She knows what makes a judge tick and, you know, what, you know, what. to do and what to not what to do and what not to do so those are your prons i mean your pros and then

your cons with getting a lawyer from a big city outside of your city is they almost look at him like he thinks he's going to come into our city and win a case that and you know win this case in a community that he's not from, you know, like, and just the way he dressed, like, I remember my prosecutor, he was one of the ugly, well, let me not say he was like, he just didn't dress, like, this guy, this lawyer I had was a spiffy looking lawyer, you know, like, so compared to the prosecutor, the prosecutor just looked like, you know, like he just woke up, didn't wash his face, just threw his sports coat on, and, um, came in the courtroom. So, was like, he's got this look.

And then the way he was talking, he was real, like, fluent with his lingo. And the judge was, like, kind of shooting him down because I don't think the judge really, I don't think she really liked me, you know, my judge, which I really don't know why. But we had to get the first judge they appointed to the case. We had to get her removed because she was already, like, showing bias. like I'm going to be on the, you know, and said like my last name case and was like things my lawyer ended up finding out. So we ended up getting the different judge.

And maybe it was just the fact that another judge maybe got thrown off the case. So maybe that's why she was kind of like, I don't know. Or maybe we hired a because we hired a big name lawyer or whatever from the city. Because we was going for, it was a black lawyer. His name was, I think it was Bobby Champion. and my family reached out to him and he said that he couldn't take the case because he also served on like a legislative branch or something like that. And they start, he couldn't take the case because of the, it was like a race issue, basically. Because, and I guess I kind of skipped over this, but the guy that ended up passing, Colton, he was white.

I'm black, right? So, well, I'm mixed. My mom's white. My dad is Haitian. So I'm a little darker, like, for being mixed. So, you know, these people look at me like, oh, this black guy just murdered. This white guy, you know, this guy just got out the car and hit him for no reason. And, you know, there's always, like, the narrative that gets painted. And that's why now, I kind of like, you know, when I hear the news and I see articles in the paper, I kind of take it at, like, a grain of salt, you know, because it's like I was on the news. I was in the papers and I know the lies that were said about me, you know, and like, um, like these different narratives that they were kind of trying to push about, oh, this was a target attack, right? Like, this guy purposely, um, he purposely tried to find a white person to attack or whatever. whatever, right? Which, I mean, couldn't be farther from the truth, you know? So, and it didn't start because of me.

Like, I didn't get out the car and say, oh, there's, you know, there's the person I want to fight. You know, it didn't start like that. But that narrative really started getting pushed because, I guess I'm kind of going back a little bit now. but when right before I got arrested, Casey and June, and I guess I ended up finding this out once I got my discovery. It's kind of when everything started coming to light and I kind of figured out how they started getting on me. But the girl that was driving, the one that got out the car,

and ended up open to my door, she was like she got with her boyfriend. They were living together with their friends. with her parents and they must have went to their parents, like told their parents what happened. And they came up with like some type of a story to tell the police. So by the time the police got there and got their statements, they, like the parents were basically coaching them into what, like if they, I remember like for instance, Junior was like saying stuff. And I mean, it's not like I had a video. I was just reading off the paper,

but he would like say something. And then his mom would chime in like, and remember how, you know, like, or remember how you said, like, all you hear is that noise. But, you know, he was never, he never even ended up getting out the car. He was in the car the whole time. And, you know, had I ended up going to trial and like then the story would have came out. And that's one of the reasons why I'm here is because I've never spoke out like about the truth about my case and what happened with it, you know? So I kind of just let people push these narratives, um, and paint me however they want, you know, like I've had people like once I ended up getting out, I've had people come up to me like, uh, man, you didn't do that, huh? That was your other brother

did that like you know and it's like oh my god or it'd be like um y'all was playing the knock uh the um what is it the like point them out knock them out y'all were playing that game that's how that happened huh um like in the newspaper we're saying was saying stuff like that too like we was playing a game and it went bad somebody got hit and ended up dying but it was nothing like that you know it was like it was completely um accidental and like now it's like i wish i could go back and you know and everybody you know i'm sure that's been through something traumatic wishes that they could change it you know but you can and it was like with me it was almost like there was so many different narratives getting pushed that i didn't even know how to even come out and try to fight this and

it's like i'm fighting a case where i can't be out there talking about my case either, you know, because that could play into the prosecutor's hands, something I say, you know, or whatever. So I just kind of just left it alone. And I remember my mom, I called home when I was in the jail. My mom was like, there's this group out. They're called the black, what is it, like the black-footed soldiers or something like that. And they want to speak to you. And I told them no, because they're, they're pushing it. narrative too that um and like they would like post all these um like i remember after i came home i ended up seeing this picture but um it was like deluth minnesota a long time ago they had like these lynchings

out there you know back in those type of days and it was like a lynch mob and it was like a dead black person in the middle of them on the ground he had like a rope around his neck and in in the midst of like the people in the lynch mob they had a picture of colton's face like you know they photoshopped it in and it said like um white people been doing this to us all our lives and you know fuck you know the um the deceased you know like and like just pushing the wrong narrative it's like we don't want this race. This isn't a race thing, you know, like this is a complete accident. And this group is trying to push this narrative. And then this other group is pushing this narrative. And it just got to the point where I was just like, I don't even care. I'm just

going to talk to my lawyer and just stay out the way. And I don't really care what anybody says, you know? But I kind of, now I've been home now for seven years now. I just felt like, man, it's probably time to come out and, like, talk about it, you know? Like, I've had it held in for so long. And it just felt like something that I needed to get out, you know, because maybe my story could help another kid, you know, or help another adult. You know, it doesn't matter. It could just help somebody, and that's really my point. What kind of plea deal did they end up offering it?

So I remember my first deal date, my lawyer came and he's like, they offered 26 years. And I was like, I'm like, what do I do on 26 years? Because San Francisco, you do 66% of your time. So I'm like, what would I do off of 26 years? He's like, you do about 18 years. I'm like, that's longer than I've been born. I'm like, I can't do. He's like, no, don't worry about that.

It's your first plea deal. It's always high. Your first deal is always crazy. Like, you'll be fine. We just keep fighting. My second deal was 15 due 10. And then my third deal was 10 years. And at this point, I think I had like 15 months in or something, 14 months, 15 months.

And I wasn't sure if I was going to take it. I wanted the murder. I wanted them to drop the murder charge. and I would plead to the manslaughter. And initially, that's what my lawyer was telling me in the beginning. Like, they're never going to get this murder charge. And he was, like, gung-ho on trial. Like, we're going to trial, no deals, right?

Because he was a trial lawyer. He won a lot of cases. From what we had seen on what, from what my mom had seen online, he had won a lot of different cases. So I'm thinking we're going to trial, no deals. a son, my lawyer comes in one day, comes to the jail. They call me in, and he's got this big smirk on his face, and he's like, guess what? And I'm like, what? And he's like, so my best friend just got married, guess who was at the wedding? I was like, who? He's like, Colton's family. I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, they were all there. And, you know, like, I talked to, I'm not sure who he

talked to in the family, but he had spoke to some people in the family because they were at every single court date, his family, every single court date, they were like first role right behind me. And he's like, yeah, like, you know, he spoke or whatever. And I'm like, is that good or like, isn't that a bad thing? And he's like, no, he's like, that's good. Because now, because the family, they don't necessarily have a say in what the prosecutor can do and what he can offer, but they can give them their input. And usually the prosecutors like to keep the families happy, you know. So I'm like, isn't that a bad thing? And he's like, no, like, you know, it's a good thing because now, you know, I can kind of

soften them up a little bit. And because, you know, every time they'd see me, like, they just had these looks where it was like, like I was nervous because they were right behind me you know so it was like damn like okay like maybe that'll work and after that day his whole demeanor changed about trial was no more trial you need to take this deal um you know just plead to the murder and he just completely switched on me And so, yeah, so I ended up pleading out and taking the 10-year plea. And so it put me at six years, nine months. So I did just about seven years in prison.

And but a little over five of those years was in an actual Minnesota state prison? Yeah. What was the biggest difference for you transferring from the county jail to the prison? Well, before we go there, I remember. My first time walking into court on my arraignment, right, where you walk in, you get charged formally, right? So I walked in and my public defender, her name was Catherine Maughamanger or something like that. She told me, like, look, there's a lot of people in that courtroom right now. There's cameras and everything.

And then she told me, like, your family is in the second. row but I didn't know who was in the first row right I just didn't know who that was so like your family's in the second row you know if you look you look but that's it don't do anything else just go to your seat because being a juvenile um my mom has to sit next to me at the table and then everybody kind of seemed like damn his mom is white you know like I got a white mom or whatever so um because before that they were they would like I said she used to always read the paper on her laptop so she'd read the comments and stuff and like they people were posting crazy stuff like this is why we should never let the blacks out from under our thumb and this is what happens when you let a single black

mother raise seven kids alone and or however many whatever like just a lot you know just the hate comments and stuff so it was like you know and then you know my mom's at the table and she's white and whatever. Not that it even may. Like, I don't even know why it even matters if white or black or anything because, I mean, it's easy to see that this was an accident, you know. But so anyway, I'm walking in the courtroom and I look to my left. First person I see is my aunt.

My aunt's like just this loud personality. And she's smiling. And she like blew me a kiss. And, you know, I got like, I'm still like. in shackles and cuffs and cuffs. And she blows me a kiss. And I just give her like a half smile. Like, you know, like something like that.

I don't know. And all of a sudden in front of her, I see this lady like, like, oh. Like, and she like made this just, this just, this crazy face where when I seen it, I just like, oh, shall I shouldn't do that. And I just sat at the table. Well, like, it come, I come to find out that that. was Colton's mom. And so anyway, when I take the deal, the judge ends up accepting it,

because you know it's on the judge to accept it. And I remember the judge was like, I don't know, whatever she said, but victim impact statements come. And I, you know, I have this whole thing wrote where I'm explaining, like, this wasn't a game being played. You know, I'm so sorry. Like, I wish I could take this whole situation back, you know. And I just had, you know, everything that I was going to say. And they do their statements before I give mine. So I remember his mom got up there and, you know, she was like, you know, calling me a coward and saying, you know, like, you killed my son.

You purposely murdered my son. and she said, and this is like word for word and it's always stuck with me. I just, I don't know why, but she said, I still remember the first day I laid my eyes on you. You looked me in my eyes and you smiled at me. And that's when I knew you were a senseless murderer. And once she said that, I like thought back to that day. And I'm like, I would never do. Like, I'm not some crazy, and I'm a kid.

I don't know how to, like, I'm nervous, you know, and there's all these people. And then my family's right there, you know, so it was like, you know, even, I'm sure if I would have gave a head nod, you know, that that probably would have been bad too. So it was just like, you know, I just felt like I couldn't do nothing, right, you know, it was just like I should have just never even looked over there. I should have just been tunnel vision straight to my seat. But, yeah, she said that and that. It sounded really bad too, and there was a bunch of people, so many people in the courtroom that day, like, because it was, I had support too. I had, like, all my family and I had friends.

And my girlfriend back then was there. And then there was all of Colton's family and friends. And because then, you know, they had to do their victim impacts and stuff. So anybody that wanted to talk could talk. And, yeah, so she ended up saying that about me. And then the judge kind of, like, um, kind of co-signed me being like this this murderer you know and she's like you know you don't have any it seems like you don't have any remorse like I'm kind of reluctant to accept this plea deal um

you know so I was kind of like nervous a little bit because I'm like damn is that mean I'm gonna get like 15 years or am I going to get 20 years or something but she ultimately ended up accepting it but um yeah kind of just painted a bad picture and I kind of kind of made me feel bad you know Oh, like, damn, like, you know, this lady still to this day thinks that, and her husband, you know, and just their whole family. Like, they really think that I, like, looked at them and smiled at them. Like, I was happy that I killed their son, you know. And so, you know, sometimes that can be a little hard, like, to deal with, you know, just knowing that I killed somebody, you know. and just knowing that it was a complete accident, you know.

So, yeah, that was a little tough. But your question was going from jail to state prison. How many discounts does USA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount, safe driver discount, new vehicle discount, storage discount, legacy. How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit you. USAA.com slash auto discounts. Restrictions apply.

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What was it like? Yeah, what was the biggest difference for you, you know, just on day one switching? I mean, everything is different about prison. It's a lot more freedom in prison. I was almost happy, not happy, but I was excited to get out of this because they had me in a unit where, It was just like really a bunch of old people. And because it was all single cells because I was a minor.

So I couldn't be like in any double cells. Not that I mean, I like the fact that I had a single cell. But it was just like the other unit, like the normal unit was called B unit. That's where like everybody that I know is at, you know. And so they got me an F unit with all these old people. And, you know, oh. And one more thing too before we go to that. A week before, and this is really what pushed me to take this deal,

a week before trial scheduled, the deal had been on the table the whole time. Like they didn't really give me a timeline. I'm guessing it was I had until trial to take that because they weren't, my lawyer said they wasn't coming down no more and they wasn't going to a manslaughter. We'd have to fight for that. So a week before trial

I'm in the unit I'm talking to my guy Like I said I'm in the F unit So it's a bunch of older people And I'm showing my guy Tuan A picture of me and my little sister And then all of a sudden

I hear I'd fuck her And so I'm like what I turn around I'm like what And then I see who it is And it's Lester the Mester I'm like Lester I'm like what did you just say

That was his nickname His name was Lester But everybody called him him lester the molester or whatever because he had a really bad like rape case or whatever so I'm like what did you just say and he like kind of waved me off and so like I'm I was really impulsive as a kid and I just wouldn't think I would just kind of do it and then just deal with what happens so I hit him and I hit him in his mouth but I like I like went like this you know I like smacked him with the back in my hand and my knuckle like hit him right in his lip and he jumped up and i thought he was gonna like

you know try to fight and this is like middle of the day room but the ceo didn't see me hit him and he got up started marching to the bubble to go tell the ceo and then instantly like once i know like okay this isn't a fight like he's about to tell on me me and my guy twan was like no no please please hey let now i'm like pleading with this child molester, you know, like to not tell the CO on me because I'm like, bro, like, you know I got trial in a week for, you know, in my cases for fighting. You know, like, I'm like, bro, please, like, you know, I'll give you all the money off my books right now. And I think I had a few hundred or something like that on my books. And he's like, no, you're going to burn in hell. And so I'm like, all right. And so I'm thinking, like I said, like I always think I could talk my way out

or something. And I still remember the CEO working that day. He was a good CEO. He was like one of the coals that didn't really mess with you if you had toilet paper up or he was just kind of let you do you. And he's like, this motherfucker just hit me in my mouth. And I'm like, no, I didn't. And I like, look at him. He's like, yes, you did. And his whole mouth is just full with blood. And I'm like, oh, shit. I was like, all right. All right. And I'm like, all right, so I'm going to go to your room. and they came cuffed me took me to seg and then my lawyer came and seen me was like you just fucking ruined your case basically you know like even though he had been he probably wanted he's probably happy like yes like now he's gonna take the deal but um so yeah that was one of the

things that kind of like kind of just really gave me no choice you know but to take the deal um so yeah anyway though so from that um yeah like i said prison was just, was a lot more open, a lot more free, but it's a lot more political. In jail, it wasn't nothing like that, you know, like with the politics and the gangs and race, different races. And I remember my mom was the day I was getting, or the day before I was getting transferred, because when I took the deal, I told them that I will take the deal, but I want an interim commit. And I'm not sure if you know exactly what that is, but basically it's where instead of waiting, taking the deal, sitting in the county until you get sentenced, you just go straight to prison.

So I'm like, if I can go straight to prison now, then I'll take the deal. So obviously they're going to do that. So like, yeah, so I left the next day to prison. I remember I called my mom when I took the deal and my family didn't want me to take the deal. But, you know, I'm in SEG now because I just hit Lester. So now I'm in SEG. and, you know, it's hard already just being in jail fighting a case like that, let alone now I'm in SEG where I'm alone. I can't be on the phone because I did most of my time on the phone or like are playing cards. So it was like, now I'm alone. I don't got no food. I don't got nothing. You know, I'm just alone with my thoughts and I start trial in a week and I'm going to be in the whole fighting, you know, this case. So it was just like, I just ended up taking it.

But, yeah, like, they sent me to Fairbilt Prison. Well, St. Cloud, like, the city that this case happened at, they are the intake prison. So, like, we have a prison in our city. And that's where everybody goes first. So you go to St. Cloud Prison, and that's where they, you get, like, your custody points and you're like LSI score and everything. And so yeah, I was in St. Cloud for like, like seven months. And I ended up getting my high school diploma in like a week before they transferred me out.

So then they transferred me out from St. Cloud to Fairbilt. But you know, everybody has this. They have these like these assumptions about prison where it's like you're going to have a fight right when you get in there you're going to need a knife you're going to need you know to protect your ass you know like don't let nobody rape you and all this crazy shit and it's really not like that you know um and i mean all prisons are different i'm sure like some prisons are a little more wild but um like i remember fairboat after i left st cloud fairboat was um it's like the biggest prison in minnesota but it's it's really

spread out. It's almost like a college campus. And I think I did like two and a half years in Fairboat. And I was like the youngest kid in Fairboat at the time. Well, the youngest person in Fairboat at the time. And my girlfriend that I was with back then, like I said, we had been to Gary since like seventh grade or something. When I took the deal and I told her I was going to take it, I told her like, you know, you can just go on, you know, like, I didn't really. Like, I didn't want her to leave. I was hoping she wasn't going to say yes. But at the same time, it was almost, I almost felt selfish to be like, you have to stay with me. You can't do anything or, you know, whatever. So she was like, no, I'm going to be there for you. And, you know, I'm going to get on

your visual list and I'm going to come help you. And then, you know, you get in-person visits and stuff. You're not behind a glass or anything. So it was good to be able to, like, hug her and, like, like, hug my family and everything like that. But, um, yeah, it is, it is. It is. It's, it is. It's, It is very different going from like county to prison. Like when people would be like, oh, I did seven months in the county. It's like anybody could go into the county and do, you know, some time in the county because it's not really. People are going home, you know, like you got nobody's in the county for longer than a year, you know. Like if you have anything over a year, you got to go to prison.

So, well, at least in like my state. So everybody's short time. And so it's almost like nobody really wants to trick their time off like that with. some bullshit. So with prison, you know, you got people that got a long time that, you know, got real issues that have mental issues that, you know, their girlfriend might have just broke up with them and, you know, they still got five years left and, you know, they don't got nothing to lose. They don't got no money. So, you know, they instantly just like they lash out, you know, so you're dealing with a lot of personalities and especially me being young,

Um, you know, I was like, didn't have like a lot. I didn't have any tattoos. I didn't have like, you know, like, like scars all over my face had me looking, you know, like so people just like would see me, but they'd see me and they're like, man, like this little, like he's always got the newest shoes, whatever shoes come out. Like he has these shoes. He's always going to canteen, getting big 140 bags and doing this and doing that. Like I always see him in the visiting room. And because my girlfriend used to come and see me like three times a week, I think it was like a two and a half hour drive or something like that. And she used to always come up there and see me. So the start of my bed was really, it really wasn't like too hard.

You know, I started getting into programs. Oh my God. You know, because that's another thing too where it's like prison is you either work in the kitchen or you just lay on your back the whole time and watch TV and like eat honey buns or something. It's not like that. If you want to make prison into something good, you can. You know, it's just really about what you want to, how you want to do your bid, right? So, like, for me, I got my G, I mean, not my GED. I got my high school diploma, like the day before, like I said, the day before I left St. Cloud prison.

I got that. So now I don't have to, it's not mandatory school for me anymore. Now I can go into vocational classes. So I got into, I got certified in drywall, floor covering, carpentry, and small business management. And then I was doing college classes too on top of that. But you have to work. You have to do something or else you're stuck in your cell the whole time you only get out for like two hours or something like that. Versus, you know, in jail, you don't have to do anything.

You can come out, be out all day long, whatever. So do you think that makes it a safer place, the fact that it's so locked down and you could only get out for, say, positive activities? You're talking about, like, jail? No, prison. You were saying you were locked down for most of the day. Yeah. Well, if you don't have a job, you're locked down for most of the day. Once I got there, I ended up going into, like, the vocational classes. So you work from, like, eight to, like, three or something like that, three-th-thirty. get off of work and then count time or whatever you lock in and then you're out from like

five to nine that's Monday through Friday and then the weekend you know you're out all day long but I wouldn't say it makes it safer because at the end of the day if somebody wants to get to you it they can get it it's real easy to get to people even though it's a really it was a really big prison or you know there's whole different sides of the prison all you got to do is send a kite to somebody like, hey, I know this guy's in your unit. Like, you know, he owes me money, right? And now you think you just got away from a debt by moving to the other side of prison. But now you got people sliding on you like, hey, you know my guy, tiny?

Yeah, he wants his money. You got to give it to me, right? So just because you're locked in, it doesn't really, you're locked in more than the county. I wouldn't say it makes it safer. Really? I really just think it's how you carry your. yourself in prison, right? Like, if you go in there and you look like, um, you look like you can't defend yourself or you won't defend yourself or if somebody sees you get checked, right? Like,

if somebody calls you out your name or says something crazy to you and other people see it, people kind of just ride that wave. Like, okay, he's a ho-like, he's not going to do nothing. Like, let's take his shit, right? Like, let's go in his room and do this. Um, you know, like, I remember so infarable, it's all double cells. So I had a cellie, and it was this young, and by this time, I think I'd already been in prison now for a couple years or something like that. So I was already, like, you know, like institutionalized. You know, like, I know I'm going to be here for a few more years. So they put me in the room with this kid, and he was like this little skinny white kid.

But he had like a, he had like some genetics with his teeth. They like rotted really bad, right? So people like in the unit would like mess with them or they wouldn't want to play cards with them because his breath was a little funny or whatever. And, you know, he didn't have nothing. And I kind of felt bad for him a little bit because I had like, it's like the contrast was crazy because I have a bunch of stuff and he has nothing. right so i would like if i would like make a um you know like make a dish to eat or whatever i'd share with them or whatever and then one day he told me um well when he came in i ended up figuring out what he was down for and he was down for his sex case but it was with his um he was eight he had just

turned 18 and his girl had turned 17 so it was like a year difference and they were dating or whatever and then they ended up getting into it got into a bad fight the mom called the police and he ended up getting um it wasn't like a i forget what level it was and i'm not trying to justify any of that either but some things it's like okay that's a little different than you know you're with a baby or something like that you know like you were with this girl for uh i think it was they were together for like a few years you know so everything was good until he hit 18 and she's you know a year and a half younger or whatever it was so he ended up going to prison and I remember these white people, they were like a P&B gang, like this prison

motorcycle, biker gang. And they came up because some people in prison, a lot of people would call me Miami. I was like, you know, everybody has a nickname. They're like, hey, Miami, isn't that your cellie? I'm like, yeah, it's my cellie. Like, yeah, he's a gump, right? Meaning, like, you know, he's just like a goofy, like whatever. I'm like, I don't know. like that's between y'all right so they're talking to them and i don't know exactly what their context of the conversation was about because you know i'm doing my own thing and come back in the room shut the door and you know he's like sitting on the desk watching my tv and he's like i'm like what was going on with that and he's like they just gave me this book and it's got this list in it

and they want me to pay him i'm like let me see the list so i start looking at the list and it's like some razors like just some broke shit right like some razors pack of cookies like $20 something like that's something light and I'm like bro look like and he was like scared and you know I'm like bro I'm like are you gonna pay it and he was like I don't know it's cheap so I think probably and I'm like look um you know and he really didn't have any money either you know he didn't have nothing so I'm like like you know if you pay it like this is gonna keep going you know and now If you ever move to a different unit, they're going to slide on you again and they're going to be, you know, expecting you to pay. And he's like, yeah, I don't want to keep paying and whatever.

I'm like, you want to know what you need to do? And he's like, what? I'm like, you just need to call one of them in the cell and whoop his ass. And he's like, you think I should do that? I'm like, I'm telling you that's what you need to do. Like, they're going to leave you alone if you do that. And he's like, all right, because it was three white dudes and two of them. were a little taller and then there was one small one right i'm like call i forget what his name was

i'm like tell him to come in the cell and beat his ass and i'm like don't you think you can beat him up he's like yeah i think i could take him i'm like all right so i go and like kind of facilitate um this i'm like look my celly said he ain't paying um like and and fairbolt wasn't really political where it was like because like the next prison that we're going to talk about that I ended up getting transferred to that one is like serious where I wouldn't even been in the cell with the white person unless like yeah but anyway so I tell him like hey my cellie said he ain't paying like he wants to fight and so they're like oh okay all right let's like you know we'll send what's his name in there and so they sent a little short dude in there and my celly beat him up bad in the cell

and had him like choked up against the wall and my cell was right in front of the phone so I'm just like sitting on the phone you know like the little rectangle window I'm like just staring in the window making sure my cellie's like putting in some work and he's beating him up and so um they pressed the button you know and the buzz the door the door pops and uh comes out he's all red and bruised and my cellie's in the room like hype like yeah I did it I did it and I'm like yeah you did it and uh so yeah um but that's the other thing too is like the double cells and you know having to because they'll just throw anybody in your room so now you got to you know when people come in it's like you kind of got to like like with me i was real picky about like certain

things like with the sink you know the little the metal toilet connected to the sink and everything, you know, like the water, got to wipe the water out of the sink, like the little specks, like, or if you're brushing your teeth and there's water splashing over, like, you have to wipe the sink down. So I would keep a rag, like, on my sink. And then there'd be, like, a bottle of, like, disinfectant behind the toilet. And, you know, like, if my cellie, you know, doesn't, you know, like, or they're not used to it, so they would forget. So I would understand. But after a while, it's like, you kind of know that we keep this room clean. We clean the room every day.

You know, like, well, I clean the room every day. I never really made them help me because I always did it like a certain way. So, but I was really picky about just having a nice, making it as nice as I can for, you know, the time being. But so yeah, anyway, one day, you know, I had been at this prison now for probably about a couple years and one of my guys from the world comes in he's a white guy and um he's like yeah uh there's guys here that i'm into it with probably finn't end up um probably crashing him when we leave to because he was in a different unit so the only time we could see that unit is if we left out late to lunch or breakfast or whatever and i never went to eat like the um jail the prison food um um

So he's like, just come with me to breakfast. And, you know, because he's always with his, the guy that he was into with is always with like this one guy. So he's like, you know, I don't want them to jump me. So, you know, if we start fighting, if buddy jumps in, then, you know, you got me basically. So I'm like, yeah, like, you know. So long story short, we end up going to breakfast. We see the guy and he's with the guy he's always with. And I see him.

He's big as hell. like six, like six, six or something like they, just a tall white dude. And I'm like, damn, that's what you're into it with. Oh, shit. Like, okay. Whatever. Like, so we, um, Chase is like, all right, like, come outside. So they get their trays. They don't eat. They just dump them. They come straight outside. So now I know, like, okay, like, we're really about to fight. So they start walking and they're going back and forth, Like, oh, whatever. It was some shit that had to do with just the outs. So going back and forth, back and forth.

And all of a sudden, my guy spits on him, like my homie that I'm with, spits on the dude. And the guy swings on my guy Chase. So once he swung on him, I see his friend. His friend just kept walking. Like, instead of, you know, getting involved, he just kept walking like nothing was going on. So then I hit the guy that swung on my man.

and like you know he ended up falling and um so anyway they end up i end up going to seg for that and i got um 45 days in a ship out um because if you fight like in uh in the chow hall or if you fight like outside it's technically inciting a riot is what they charge you with um so they kicked me out of fair boat prison which was a medium security prison kick me out of there, sent me to closed, which is Max. And the prison they sent me to with Stillwater. And this is the prison where, you know, it's all bars. Have you seen like Shawshank Redemption?

I haven't. I have to see it. But I've seen a shot caller. Okay, right. It looks, it's like Alcatraz. Yeah, yeah. It's like all the prison doors are bars. There's not like doors.

That's how the she was in the Danbury Federal Prison I was in. Oh, okay. Yeah. And it's tears. Yeah, it's tears. Yeah. So, like, when you walk in, it's four galleys, right? Like, four tears.

So the first thing you do is, like, look up, like, damn. Like, and there's just people everywhere, like, hanging on the galley. People got their shirts off. They got, you know, homemade wife beaters. They're working out. They're playing poker. They're getting drunk. They're whistling.

People were screaming. New fish, this and that, la, da, da. But I had already been in prison a few years. So it was different for me because I still got, I got friends that are here now, you know, so I'm like walking through and you got to walk half of the, like the flag is like the bottom, you know, the bottom tier or whatever. You got to walk like half the flag just to get to the security bubble where the COs are. So you're walking by all these people and you know there's, you know, it might be, you know,

four or five of us walking in with our shit and everybody's looking, you know, they're looking at your property, seeing if you got money or not. And then, you know, you see people, if you know people, then you know people. If you don't, then you don't. But I ended up knowing a bunch of people in there. So I kind of just, like, mixed in right away. And, but yeah, Stillwater was a, they're in the process right now of closing Stillwater because they can't afford to do like the renovations that it needs.

Like I remember one morning I got up, I was working in the kitchen and my shift was from four to ten and I got up early in the morning and I had only did this job just for a little bit but I got up early in the morning and I'm washing my face. And normally in still water, most of the cells have porcelain toilets and then a porcelain sink. They're not connected. Like Fairboat has the whole steel setup. It's not like that. It's like a sink that has nozzles, not the button that you push.

And it has like a real faucet head that comes out. But you rip like a white tea or you might rip a sheet and you tie. and you tie it around the nozzle, right? So it basically screens your water or filters your water for you. And like I'll switch mine every week, but when you switch it, it's like brown and nasty. I remember one morning I was up getting ready for work and I was like throwing water on my face. And I was about to throw like a scoop of water in my mouth after like I had brushed my teeth. And I had my lamp on and I kind of like seen the water.

It was looking a little dark, but I'm like, maybe it's just because my room is dim, you know, because it's still dark outside. So I'm like, maybe it's just, so I just, I hit my light. And I had like little chunks of like iron or something like that in my hand that I was about to throw in my mouth. And that was one of the things that they needed to fix, but I guess it was just too expensive for them too. fix it. On side, like one of the things on top of many other things that they need to fix. So now it's in the process of, like, being closed down. But Stillwater's crazy.

Like, that's where I got, like, all my tattoos at. The COs there, like, each race really has, like, their, like, primary CEO. You know, like, the blacks got, like, Jamaica and the whites got slusher. And, you know, like, everybody kind of has. their CO and gangs run Stillwater. So like if, if like, for instance, uh, if one white guy fights two Mexican people, right?

Or two Mexicans jump a white guy. Now, one of the COs that's like knows the Mexicans or whoever's got the unit for the Mexicans would go to him and would talk to him about whatever and, they would go to the white guy and talk to him and see if they can like settle it off the flag, meaning like, hey, if y'all need to like fight, like going to a room or something real quick, we don't want to see it, we don't want to know about it, y'all handle it, but we just don't want the unit to go up.

So it would be shit like that, where it's just like gangs and clicks, you know, really is what kind of controlled the person. prison in Stillwater. Why do you decide to get tattoos in prison? I always wanted tattoos. Like, it wasn't for, like, a... It wasn't for, like, this edge or anything like that. Um, because I had been into, I think, like, my whole bit, I think I maybe got into, like,

seven fights out of, like, a almost seven-year bid, um, which is, like, pretty low, especially. And, like, for me, I was young. and thought I had something like to prove, you know? And people, I felt like people would look at me, you know, like all this little pretty boy that's in here. His girl's always coming up here to see him. He's always got a 140 bag on his back. You know, he's got this.

He's got that. I felt like people judged me because of that, right? So I felt like, one, I wanted tattoos. And I just, and I wasn't just going to let any. anybody do my tattoos, you know? So, like, I wasn't like blue face where it's just like anybody drawn me, right? It was like, I want the best in here to do it. And so like, well, I guess like with this, like with this sleeve, my celly, um, I got this in Farbo, but, um, like the medium security that I was at first. Myceli, his name was Russia. He was broke too. Well, he didn't have a lot of, like,

support but um he was a really good drawer like he had all these pictures up he'd sit all night and just draw and i'm like bro you can draw really good i'm like you think you can tattoo and he's like i probably could do that and so i'm like i'm like what if i bought you a gun and then i you just do your free work like i get all the all free work you know from you and then you can make some money you can buy yourself a tv so you can stop watching you know my tv all the time and you know get you know get some food and whatever. And so I ended up buying a gun. Well, I bought the pieces to a gun. And then we had to get it set up. So like the gun that most of the guns that are made in like a Minnesota prison, I've seen different people say they've used like different pieces or, you know, they have different

setups. But it was a bick, like a clear bick pen. And then guitar string, like all of this. Like I got all this and then my shoulder and my whole chest done and it was all done with guitar string so like they like file the guitar string down and they um get an alarm clock take the motor out of the alarm clock like people in prison are smart like it's crazy some of the people um you know you think like these people you know like people that haven't been to prison i feel like they look down in prison like oh they're stupid that's why they're there you know like some of these people like might have been like a science professor you know, like went to school for chemistry and now they're in here making the craziest hooch ever,

you know, like just different stuff like that. So it was like, you know, there's tattoo artists in there. So there's a lot of good people in there that have good skills that, you know, they can still put in with use as just different materials that they're, you know, working with. So like I said, Bickpan, alarm clock motor, guitar string,

and then they take a you gotta get some coconut grease like for hair they get a popcorn bag and put a wick in the grease light it on fire and put the popcorn bag over it and then the soot builds up in the popcorn bag and they scrape all the soot out and then that's your ink but they mix it some people would like put a little bit of shampoo in it but then like that should like have your shit like green after a little while your ink like once you've had it set in for maybe i don't know like a few months or something after it's done pillen and it's like set in it'll the ink will like start turning green and it'll like fade to like a greenish color so i remember like they're like you always know you got good ink if like they have the little droplet bottle thing they'll take it like when i bought the ink they'll test it they'll test it you'll test

it for me and they take a little droplet because there's just an ink guy that just makes ink. He don't tattoo. He just makes the ink for it. And you take the little droplet thingy that you put the ink in, just give it a little squeeze into the toilet. And if it stays in a bead, like it stays beaded and it drops to the bottom, that's good ink. But if it like hits the surface and it like just spreads out, then it's bad ink. Like it's really thin. And it won't set. You in your skin well. So, so like the ink that they used on me was decent ink. Like all my work is pretty dark and it's all like decent work for prison work. But I remember like when I was getting my chest done, it hurts so bad. And I'm like trying to be tough about it. And then you're like,

oh, I need this pain. I got so much pain built up. I need to feel this. But it's like, no, it hurts. Like it doesn't know tattoos feel good. So, People say, oh, the tattoos don't hurt. Yes, they do. Every single tattoo I've ever gotten hurts. It doesn't matter where I've gotten it at. They hurt. But I guess, like, they did give me a little bit of an edge, though, you know, in prison. But for the most part, people kind of knew me already, and they knew that I would fight if I had to fight, you know. But, like, being young, being young and being active, like, with sports and gambling and, um, like sports betting. I was involved in all of that.

So that is like you're kind of putting yourself in a predicament for trouble, right? Like, when you are involved in every day you wake up, you're going to the poker table to play, right? or some days I might open the poker table or, you know, betting. You know, I'm putting in parleyes to the casino guy. You know, so it's almost like that's where all my trouble really came from when I did get into fights for the most part, despite the one that happened outside. It all came from playing cards, playing because I got guys that did, like one of my best friends. now um he did what like four and a half years something like that didn't get in one fight his whole bid like one of my other guys did um nine years came home didn't get in one fight his whole

bid so you don't have to fight in prison it's just about um the situations that you put yourself in right so like me i really didn't i really didn't care like I know this guy's hot-headed. Like, my guy might not sit at the table and play just because he knows this guy talks too much shit and he's hot-headed. But I would still sit and play. And then, you know, now it's like me and him are going in the cell and we're fighting now, you know, even though I should have never been playing with them. But it's just, you know, and being impulsive, like, and filling the need where it's like, I can't let nobody disrespect me. I can't.

Like, I would rather get into a fight and lose than to let you call me out my name and treat me. And then, you know, not do nothing about it to defend myself, you know, because it's kind of almost like a pride thing for me. You know, like some people have that humility where it's like words, like, words don't affect me. I don't care. Just don't touch me, right? But for me, it was more like if you say the wrong word to me, I'm going to fight. you right like we're gonna fight and and that's just being young and being dumb you know like because now when I look back on like some of the dumb shit that I did in prison it's just like

man like if I would have been older I feel like I would have had a smoother bid but I wouldn't I mean now I got kids you know like growing I got a family like me and like we own a house you know like so I couldn't imagine going through what I went through back then right now you know but I'm I was just saying that I know if like I did it would have been a lot smoother bid you know just because I'm a lot more humble now and I'm way more calm than I used to be and I don't feel like I need to prove anything to nobody right like so but being young and being in there with a bunch of like men that are older than you you kind of feel like

like man if I don't stick up for myself somebody's gonna like you know just it's just gonna be people back to back to back they just think they can just mess with you and mess with you and you're just gonna be known as you know like a gump basically so that was my thinking

in prison was like I can't take no shit you know but really I mean it's not bad thinking to have it now when I look back It's almost like you just don't need to put yourself in the situations where you don't have to take no shit. You know, because there's people in there that don't want to fight. They're calm.

They're cool. They're collected. And, you know, hang around them and, you know, things go good. But, yeah. Now, a lot of people have a hard time rebuilding after prison with, say, a murder conviction on their record or other violent offenses. How are you able to do that? Yeah. So like, you know, being in prison, the only thing you think about is coming home.

You don't think about like, okay, yeah, you're going home, but you have to start a life, right? Like, I was a kid when I got locked up and I'm coming home a grown man, right? So it's like I wasn't thinking about how hard it was going to be for me to do something that I want to do, right? Like get a job that I want to, that I feel good working. So, you know, it was really hard when I got out. It was really, really hard to find something that fitted what I, you know, like these high hopes that I had for myself, you know, because when you're in prison, everybody's like, I'm going to get out and I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. I'm gonna get this kind of car. And then it's like, okay, you get out.

And it's like, like, things are moving so fast. And, you know, everything is going like a million miles an hour around you. And it's just like, damn, I never even thought about this part, like having to go start looking for jobs, having to explain in every job interview. Like, I got a murder on my background. And explain without justifying, you know, because it's easy to be like, you know, I haven't murdered on my background, but all I did was hit somebody and he died, but I still killed somebody, right? Like, so it started to become this thing where it was like, do I tell them or do I not tell

them? Because when I tell them, everybody's like, you know, like, oh my gosh, like that's so unfortunate. and, you know, like, you know, kind of that type of vibe. But then I never get a call back, right? Like, it's like, I thought they liked me, you know, like, they, like, kind of, I thought we, like, kind of connected over the job or whatever. And I never got a call back. But, and then when I don't tell them, like, oh, you got anything in your back?

I'm like, nope. I'm like, okay. And then I don't get a call back then, you know, because it ends up coming back. So, yeah, that was really hard. Before we go to getting out of prison, July 18th of 2018, and I still remember the day because it was three days after my birthday. So we're out on flag, and one of my best friends that I said I call him my brother that was with me the night that I caught my case, he ended up getting charged with a drive-by shooting

and they gave him like 17 and a half years. So he comes home in May. He's been down like 12 years now. But and he's young two, we're all like, he's 31 now. But anyway, so he gets to Stillwater. And he just came from Fairboat. And I'm like, like, hey, like, I'm going to get us in the cell together. And so he's all right.

Because in there you can do that. You can move cells if you want to or whatever. So we get in the cell together. And every day he's cooking, fry. ride rice. He's making spaghetti. He's making hot pockets. He's just making every day. He's cooking something. I told him like, bro, you got to stop cooking like that because we go on lockdown here a lot. And you really don't know, we don't know why we're getting locked down. And you don't know how long. You kind of just tell how long you're going to be locked down for by the size of your garbage bag that they put on your bars at night.

So like you'll wake up in the morning and it might be a big ass industrial size garbage bag on your bars. Like I know we're going to be in here for at least a couple weeks, right? But if there's like just a little miniature one, probably just a day or two, we're going to be locked down. So I'm telling him all this shit. And he's like, okay, like, yeah, I feel that. I feel that. All right. So all of a sudden, July 18th comes.

And I hear the ICS go off. Like, do, do, do, do, do, de do. So that means like there's a fight or there's a riot or somebody's getting stabbed, something. And now, and now, mind you, my first day in Stillwater, I seen a CO get chased. They tried to stab the CO. It was this guy in there with a knife. And, like, the CO, like, ran out of the unit, and he threw the knife at the CO.

And so I knew this is going to be a crazy bid in Stillwater. Like, so all of a sudden, the guard comes over the intercom screaming. Lockdown, lock down, lock down. We're like, what the fuck's going on? So all of a sudden, like I said, it's bars. So I'm on, like, what, the second galley? and all you hear is turn it to channel five turn it to channel nine like all these are news channels four five nine eleven and so we turned to whatever care eleven or whatever we what it was i see it's a helicopter

flying above stillwater and i'm like what the fuck happened stillwater guard killed somebody killed the guard in prison beat them with the hammer and stabbed them and i was crazy because at this time I was working in laundry, which laundry was like probably the best job in there because I can go to every single unit and see people, right? Because in Stillwater, it's so, um, it's like ran by like gangs and clicks. So if somebody is into it, like, if you're a blood and you're into it with a Crip, all right, the bloods are in A West. The Crips are in A. East, right? Like, so it's just, and that's just an example, right? But so that's how they split shit And you can tell them like, oh, I'm from here and they'll move you to the unit where all your friends are, right?

Or your people's at. So, yeah, so I'm doing laundry. And I get to see everybody. And so I knew the guy that killed the guard because they put the, his name was Mama. They put his picture on the news and he had like an eye patch and shit. So he had, and he only had, he'd been down 20 years. He had three years left. was in for murder.

And when he first started his bid, he told the COs, don't pop my cell. Like, I guess he was into it with some, like, native guys. And he's like, don't pop myself. I guess the COs still popped his cell. Some natives ran in his room, and they got into it, and they ended up taking his eye out. And 20 years later, like, the day of, like, you know, the anniversary of his eye getting taken out 20 years prior, he kills a guard in welding. Because, you know, there's different vocational classes.

So Stillwater has welding and, you know, heavy machinery, different shit. The COs are doing the rounds. And all of a sudden, and like I didn't, I didn't see this. This was in welding. I'm in, you know, my unit, but it was in the same prison. I guess he stabbed him and then beat him with the hammer with like the claw part of the hammer, beat him to death with the hammer, and then the guard that was doing the round with him, because they do two guards walk around together because there's weapons, you know, like technically,

I guess there's weapons in there. So the guards seen him getting beat and ran out and left them basically. So when we heard that the. the guard got killed and they showed a picture. His name was Joseph Gamm was the guard's name. You know, like football Sundays, whenever the Vikings score a touchdown and everybody's in their cell, you hear like, oh, everybody like starts screaming and beating on their desk. And, you know, whenever a touchdown scored.

Like, that's what you would have thought happened. Like, there was like some, like touchdown or we won the Super Bowl or something the way people started screaming and everybody's cheering. Fuck that CEO. Fuck him. Fuck y'all. This and that. So now these other CEOs are hearing everybody in their screaming, which is crazy that they're, you know, this guy just got killed.

And they're all in here screaming and happy about it, right? So they end up locking us down from July 18th. I don't know the exact day, but we came out sometime mid-October, 24-hour lockdown in the middle of the summer in Stillwater Prison. There's no AC. Like, there's never eight. There's not AC. Just there's no AC in Stillwater. So it's always really hot.

And, you know, you get a fan. Like, you can buy a fan. So, like, me and my brother both had a fan and we were locked down in the cell together. And his ass been cooking like a crazy person, all the damn full. food so food's starting to get short you know because i'm relying on canteen every wednesday to like re-up and now we don't get no canteen we don't get like they was holding our mail we ate peanut butter and jellies for like a week straight for like breakfast lunch and dinner um or no just um breakfast and dinner because we only had two meals and uh it was rough like we didn't shower for like

two weeks so you know we're just like bird bathing in the cell people are throwing shit off the galley like shitting in the um in the or i don't know how they're doing i assume they're probably shitting in the toilet and then scooping it with the milk carton versus you know putting a milk carton under their ass and shit in the milk carton so but they're filling it up with shit and piss throwing it off the galley it's hitting the floor and you know people live on the bottom the bottom level right So now everybody's screaming like it's pissy. They're opening their Kool-Aid packets, like shaking them up in the bottle, throwing bombs. So now it's like dyeing the floors.

Like grape Kool-Aid is dying at purple and, you know, cherry fruit punch is all red. And the floors was garbage everywhere. And it just smelled so nasty. And we finally came out for showers after like two weeks. I got to see what the flag looked like. And it was just nasty. And it's like, bro, like, these COs aren't about to clean this shit up. Like, they're fine with making us live in our own filth.

And y'all are just adding to it every single day. Like, there will be people pissing, like, trying to piss off the galley. P. Like, trying to piss on the kiosk and shit, you know, like for the tablets and stuff. Just crazy. And I bring this up because this was, like, a pivotal part. This one little situation right here kind of told me a lot about prison and how fucked up prison can be to people. Because so like I said, we've been locked down for months, right?

And the cell above me is Anthony, the guy that I told you got slammed in Elmore Academy and had the hole in his chin. He ended up coming to prison and he was in the cell right above me and my brother. and he had a cellie in there. And so if you're like, you know, standing at your bars, like there's windows, like the wall is windows. And so at night when they shut the lights off in the unit, if you have your cell light on, I can see the reflection of everything you're doing in your room. It's just like a mirror, basically. And so I hear it. Anthony whispering to his cellie like, man, you're good.

Like, stop, bro. Like, you're good. And the guy's like, no, like, I'm going to, like, I don't know exactly what he was saying. But then all of a sudden I hear like, because my brother, Momo's like, bro, like, what the fuck's going on? You see this shit? And I started looking in the windows. I take my earbud out and I get up by the bars. And I'm like listening.

And because they're right in the cell like directly above us. and I'm listening. And he's like, please, Anthony, I don't want to die. Like, I don't want to die. And I'm like, the fuck? I'm like, what the what's going on up there? And the kids, he was a young native kid. He slid his wrists in the cell with his cellie, cut his wrist deep. And I guess he started bleeding out. And Anthony's screaming, see, oh, see, oh, help. Like, we need help. But it's almost like the boy who cried wolf, right? Because so many people have been pranking the COs like, So yo, I need help.

I'm having a seizure in 504. And then they come and nobody's or the guy's sleep, right? So it's like they don't know if they can trust it or not. So Anthony's screaming, CO, CO, help, help. He's dying up here. He's dying. And nobody came for a little while. And then I guess people could kind of tell by,

like the urgency in his voice, that maybe this is, like, true. So all of a sudden, the COs just walk up there. They see him. Long story short, they end up bringing in the stretcher, carrying the kid out. He ended up surviving. But then after they carried the kid out,

somebody was like, hey, eh. And then he was like, what's up? And he was like, you was a bitch. And he was like, what? And he was like, you should have let him kill himself. and I told my brother like, bro, like, I ain't say nothing. I just let them, that ain't my business to get into. But I told my brother, Mom, like, bro, like, you hear how heartless this shit is?

Like, imagine when Anthony would have had on his mental and on his mind and on his heart knowing that his celly just killed himself. And before he died, he was asking to get saved. He was asking to, like, get me help. He was telling you, I don't want to die, right? And you said, basically, fuck you, like, you know, you shouldn't have did it, whatever, right? And that little, just a little situation is crazy how certain things can kind of expose shit to you, right? Just that little situation was one of, was a story that I'll, like, I'll never forget. And I'll never forget how disgust that I felt.

not with him but even just with myself being in this situation right like i'm around a bunch of people that ain't got no hearts right don't care like they don't care and it was almost like i was grateful that i only had a year left because i came home june 3rd of 2019 so i had yeah about a year left i was I was grateful that, like, man, I'm getting out of here, you know, because when you're in prison, you're just going along with the day, you know, like, and I was, like, selling bags in there, like, if, uh, um, if you needed, like, a $60 bag or something, like, you lost on the poker table, or you got cracked and you got to pay the casino guy for the games, you could come and get a bag for me um like 40 dollars 20 dollars 60 dollars anything over like 60 you would have to um

send the money the money would have to get sent like so your girl would send my girl or send somebody that is with me they would send them the money right and then they would get the bag or whatever and and i was making like pretty good money just doing that right um so because um um I guess I didn't really get to that either, but so like my, like my girlfriend that was there the whole time for me, like she did like maybe like three and a half, four years. And then like one day she just stopped answering. And it was like, Dan, everybody was telling me like, bro, she's not going to wait for you. I'm like, yes, she is going to wait for me.

Like she's out there fucking like, no, she's not fucking on me. She's doing good. Like she comes up here three times a week and da-da-da-da-da. And I'm trying to explain to them how much of a good girl she is. and she's different and, but it was like, and, you know, I respect the fact that, you know, I respect that, you know, she wanted to get on with her life, right? It was really just the way she kind of went about it. Like, you could have easily told me, like, hey, I really just can't do this anymore.

Like, I can't keep waiting. Like, you know, I want to, you know, like, your life is on pause. Mine shouldn't have to be on pause, right? and so I would have respected it had I got some type of a like a warning that like all right this is going downhill like the last thing I knew everything was good like you know we've been together at this point like over like around 10 years or something like that and it was just like one day she was just gone and I'm like damn and everybody knew her because I was always in the visiting room so like the COs knew her everything and you know they're like hey Jesse where's you know where's your girlfriend at you know where's your girlfriend at? Like I haven't seen you in the visiting room in a while and it's like, oh, she's on vacation because I was like pride. I was young and prideful. Like, it was like I didn't want people to know like she just left the shit out of me. You know what I'm saying?

Like she's gone. But it was like, yeah, so I had the deal with that, like that heartbreak in prison. And it was the worst shit I've ever dealt with. Like it made me start to realize for other people. Like I'd see men crying on the phone. Like, please just answer my call. and you know you feel bad but it's like oh i can't relate my girl's here my girl's answering every call like there's money on the phone there's money on my book she comes to see me and tell like she left

and everything crashed down no more money no more visits like unless it's you know my mom or like somebody like that no more visits um no more none of that you know so it's like damn and then you know obviously when you come home then it's like oh hey i'm back hey i'm back hey what's going on? You look good and how you've been doing? But yeah, it was like, you know, I had to like kind of figure out how to still maintain without her, you know, so like I would, like I was getting drugs in prison and stuff and I was selling drugs in prison for a little while just for a little bit because I ultimately ended up going to Seg for refusing to take a UA because me and my guy was in the cell smoking. But, you know, yeah.

So tell us about after-person once you got out. Yeah. What did you do about six and a half years, seven years total? Yeah, six years, nine months. So I got out, like I said, like you just want out. You're not thinking about what you're going to do when you get out. Well, I wasn't thinking about what I was going to do and how much this murder charge was going to affect my future, right?

So I'm putting it in all these places because I have to get a job because it's part of my parole. I had 40 months of parole to do. So I had to get a job. So I, um, nowhere would hire me. Like I said, like I'd go into interviews and I'd tell them, be honest and straightforward with them. And they would, you know, accept it.

And they'd, you know, acknowledge, like, they'd acknowledge the situation, but then I'd never get a callback. And then I wouldn't tell them. And then I'd still wouldn't get a call back. So at that time, my mom was, um, the district manager of, like, five guys. So she was like, look, like, I see you're really trying to get a job. I'll give you a job at five guys. And I was driving.

And so she ended up giving me the job. I was driving like 35 minutes, 30 minutes every day back and forth to work for $13 an hour. And, you know, I mean, at the time, it was okay because, I mean, I just went from getting paid $0.25 an hour in prison to making $13 an hour. So it was like, damn, every two weeks I'm getting like $800. So it seemed like it was okay, you know, and then I was living with my mom, like, you know, because I got locked up as a kid. So I got to come home and be a grown man and start, I got to get a credit. You know, I got to like start building my credit. I need to get a phone. Like, you know, well, I guess my mom had brought a phone for me, but it's like prison showed me how to be independent.

So when I got out, it was like, yes, I was appreciative for the help, but I knew that this wasn't going to be something that I just leaned on, right? It was just something for now until I can get up fully on my feet and then I'll be good, right? And so doing that flipping burgers at five guys for $13 an hour, driving 30 minutes. Did that for a few months. They ended up like giving me a manager job, bump me up to $16 an hour. And I'm like, yeah, it just ain't worth it anymore. Like, it's just driving too much. And I smell like grease every day. And I'm not, like, I just didn't like the flippingberg. Like, I just didn't want to do that, right? And so then I got into, started doing some roofing, trying to put my vocational stuff, my vocational certificates to use

that I learned or that I earned and went to this roofing company. They ended up, like, hiring me. And the first day, they're like, all right, get up there. And I'm thinking, like, they're going to give me, like, a harness and, like, click me in. It was nothing. Like, they're like, oh, like, climb up, like, same way Brad over there is doing it. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, I've never did this before.

Like, how do you expect me? Like, look, if you're going to do this, man, you got to get broken in now. and I'm like, all right, so I get up there and I'm shaking and like the wind's blowing and it just don't seem sturdy. And I'm like, man, I'm going to fall. And if I fall, like, I'm really going to break some bones in my body. And then it didn't make it any better that the guy that I was working with is just flying through it.

And I'm like like a damn sloth like on the thing like scooting my body down this border, this two by four. and I'm like, yeah, this don't work. So I left that. And it was like all the good jobs kept turning me down, you know. So it almost like made me turn to hustling. And I started, you know, I got into drugs. And I got really deep into drugs and started selling like larger amounts of drugs. and me and my brother, aka my best friend, got into drugs, started selling these drugs and started making a lot of money.

And the city that we was in was really, like my brother kind of had everything, like, locked up out there. Like it was, so I was like, I need to, like, I need to go find my own place to do this at. So I had a guy that lived in the state next to me, one of the states next to me. And he's like, yeah, like, I know people, you know, just come out here, you know, bring everything you got. And I did that. And I started making just unbelievable amounts of money where it was like, I'll never go back to working, you know. So I had like my little operations set up really good where I went out there. I started, I got it rolling.

And I got people calling the phone. And, you know, I had a little flip phone. I got them calling the phone. And I would work for a week, meaning like I'd go out there and sell drugs for a week. And then when I would leave, I'd give the phone to my guy just so it could stay rolling. and just there's always like money and drugs like we're never running out so my guy would do the selling when I go so I can go home take care of things I need to take care of at home and then I'd come back I'd have more and then I he'd have at least 10,000 for me right when I walk in so then that'll get

put away and because I was driving like a little over two hours two and a half hours I'm away. And so I'd get that, put that up, get my hotel room. And now I'd start, like, you know, working. And so a lot of times I'd go home, most times, I would go home with at least $20,000, $30,000 in a week. And one time I went and I said, I'm just going to bring a load of drugs. And I'm not coming home until I'm done, right? And I ended up making like $60,000, a little over $60,000.

And the scariest part, like, was never driving with drugs because I never smoked in the car. And I always, like, had them hidden, right? So, but with the money, you can't hide that much money. So it would be, like, my whole center compartment might be full of money. Like, money. And then I got started getting these lockbox. But then the money started like it was like I'm gonna need a few of these lockboxes and that's gonna look suspicious So um yeah like I said everything was going good till one day my brother that I had more my one of my homies out there that I had put on ended up getting popped

And um he got caught up and but that's because he started getting real sloppy and Started you know just he's just doing too much and um got caught up and I ended up getting him, well gave him the money for his retainer for his lawyer. And he ended up going like back to prison. And we all met in prison like my guy. We ended up meeting in prison in the first place. So he ended up going back to prison. And, you know, that scared me obviously because we were working hand in hand basically. I just didn't live there. So I left for maybe a few weeks. And then I just, um, I just. decided to go back out there and keep hustling.

So I did that. Because once you get that taste of that type of money, it's like, it's hard to not go until, it's like, it's like I'm either going to get jammed up or I'm just going to keep, I'm going to keep getting this money, right? Like, because it's like, you know, you go on a trip and blow $20,000. But it's like, okay, you just blew a lot of money. but I know that even though I might not have a lot of money left in like liquid cash, I've got a lot of drugs at home that I'm going to sell once I get back home.

So that's technically money. It's just up in there right now. But yeah. So, yeah, I started selling drugs and got deep into drugs. And that came with drug usage. I started, I got addicted to percocets, real percocets, like prescription pills. and the money and like, you know, music, you hear, like, all these rappers talking about perks. And so you almost look at it like, like, it's a cool thing, you know, like drinking lean.

Like, I never really got into lean, but perks, I got into really hard. And, you know, people tell me, like, man, like, you just as good as people that do fentanyl. You know, like, you look down on them, but it's basically the same shit, you know, like, it's all the same type of. Like, when they go through withdrawal and I go through withdrawal, it's probably the same feeling. You know, maybe there might be maybe a little worse because I know those are like a little stronger than the prescription perks. But, man, I still feel like a junkie, you know, even though I got enough money. And it's like, I used to tell people like, bro, you couldn't afford to have my habit. Like I was at first, I'd get a script of 100.

I'd sell 50 and keep 50. Then it got to a point where I couldn't sell them anymore. I had to do them. I was doing like, like, usually like six pink tens. So like a 10 milligram percocet. Six of them at a time, like five, maybe like four or five times a day. So now I'm going through like maybe 25, 30 some pills a day. And my scripts are running out really fast, you know, so I got to kind of stretch them.

So I can never really get high anymore. It was like I was just like getting myself good, you know. But I always had the money to buy these scripts. So I had one lady that she had access to these other, like her other friends or whatever. They were these older, like diabetic ladies that were like in wheelchairs and stuff. and they used to always sell her the um well they'd sell they'd give her the pills to sell and i would come in and she knows she just called me and it doesn't matter if they're fives or tens or micros or it doesn't matter what they are i'm just going to buy them and so like one pink 10 is like $20 for a pill

but i'm paying buying them hosa i'm getting them for like $12 right so if i get $100 i'm paying $1,200 or maybe i might get them for $13 so i'm paying $1,000. 1,300, right? But I'd go and cash her out however much she's got. But then, you know, it just leads into sloppy shit because now I'm doing so many. I'm starting to run out and they don't get another script until the 14th. So now I got to go to my guy in over north in Minneapolis. Then I got to go to this person because, and I don't know if who they're getting their

pills from. I don't know if they're pressed. I don't know if they're legit or if they're fake. I'm really just going off of their word hoping that, you know, like they fuck with me tough enough where they wouldn't do that to me because they know how many I take. Where if I was to, if these were to be fake, I would probably die, right? But, yeah, I mean, it got really bad. Obviously, you don't sell drugs now. So what did you transition into?

Yeah. You said, wait, what did you say? Oh, what did you transition into? No, what you say before that? Obviously you don't sell drugs. Yeah, okay, yeah. So, yeah, that's what I was going to get to. So one day I had brought my son out to Miami to see, like, my dad, you know, his grandpa and his grandma and everybody.

And, you know, we were going shopping with like me, my son and his mom, my son's mom were shopping and just, I'm just blowing money because it, like, didn't even matter because I was just going to make it right back. And then came back, I had to leave to Houston for a birthday party, my brother's party. So go to Houston, like literally, like right when I get back, I'm right back at the airport going to Houston. Blue, probably I don't even know. I don't even want to think about, like, just all the money I've went through. But so then I'm like, shit, got to get home, got to hustle. I knew I still had a nice amount of drugs at home that were waiting for me.

And I knew, like, my people, like, they're waiting on me to come, you know. So finally get done with Houston, get home, get on the road, bring the drugs out to where I'm going. And I just got out into the city. And I'm on the FaceTime with one of my guys. And I'm like, bro, what the fuck? Like every time I had a Durango, like a 2020 nice Durango, whatever. But it's the only time I've ever drove my car out there. And because normally I get rentals, but I'm thinking this.

day like they've never seen my Durango before so they're just going to think it's a rental because that's what they say like smooth every time we see you you're in a new car but they're just obviously they're just rentals right like you keep us on our toes we never know what you're coming in and da da da da so i pull up in my truck and i hit two stains like i go see one like two of my normal custos go see him and i'm on the phone my guy on my face i'm like bro every time i see a cop They bust a Ui. I'm like something's going on. Like some, it's some weird shit going on out here.

So I hurry up, get to the hotel. I get checked in, throw my shit in the room. Now the drugs are in the bottom of my duffel bag. I got a bunch of clothes over it, you know, clean clothes, smell like laundry soap or whatever. The drugs don't, they don't really have a smell. It's not weed, right? So they're like, so yeah, I end up seeing these cops busing Ui's all the time.

So I end up getting to the hotel. I'm about to go into the hotel and like just relax for a minute. I just made two sales. And now I'm about to go like probably go roll up or something. And all of a sudden I'm like, fuck, I don't got no woods. I need to go get some backwoods. So the gas station is right down the road from my hotel. So I hurry up, run to the gas station.

Run in, come out, boom. Across the street, there's a space alien. I see a cop sitting in the parking lot. And it's nighttime. It's like, probably like 9, 30, 10 o'clock. And he's got his lights off. And so I'm like, okay. So I get in my truck.

And this is January, uh, 20, 23. So it's really cold out there. You know, January. It's when, winter is just like winters out here. And, uh, they're like, um, I pull out of the holiday gas station that I was at. He pulls out of the space alien. And so there was a car behind me that ends up pulling out behind me. And so now there's a car in between me and this cop car.

So I hit it. Like, brr, and I got like a nice, I got a good hemie in my truck. And so I'm just flying through the snow. Hurry up. Pull into the hotel. I got, like, I had my woods and then a bag like with like, I don't know, like a jug of milk, some cereal because I love cereal. So I had some snacks from my hotel room. And I hurry up.

I see the cop is like, I can see him behind the car, and I know he's probably trying to come for me. So I get to the hotel, hop out, put it in park, lock the door. I got a half ounce of weed in my center console. I had my perks and some more pills, and I threw them in my nuts. And I left the weed in the car and shut the door, locked it, started walking. Cop pulls into the parking lot and hits his lights as I'm. literally almost to the door. And now I'm in just like a purple jumpsuit,

like a hoodie and sweats and then some crocs. And he's like, oh, stop right there, stop right there. So I'm like, what's going on? He's like, it seems like you were zipping around a little bit. That's what the cop has said to me. I'm like, did you get a speed on me? I'm like, I don't think I was speeding. He's like, no, I couldn't get a speed on you.

But, you know, this is my city. I know the limits around here. And I can tell you were zipping around. And so I was, okay, well, you know, I mean, if you don't got, like, if you don't got a speed on me, then what, how are we, how do we handle this then? And he's like, um, those tints look really dark on your car. He's like doing anything he can to try to, like, keep me there. And I'm like, okay, like, you might have opened in your door so I can test them. I'm like, no, just give me the ticket. Like, I know they're dark, like, they're, like, 20% or something like that, 10%. I know the legal limit in Minnesota is 50. So, so. you can just give me the ticket because I know what you're trying to do, right? Like, I'm not saying like, I know what you're trying to do to them, but I'm just telling him like, give me the ticket because I know you just want to have me open the door and see if you can get a whiff of anything, so now you can search.

So I'm like, I'll just take the ticket. I don't want to give you a ticket if they're not above the limit. Like, there's not. And I'm like, look, this is my truck. I know that they're dark, right? So he's like, all right. Now, the whole time I'm on the phone with my kids' mom. And at this time, me and her were together.

And I'm talking to her. I'm just, like, kind of sitting there. And she's like, are you good? And I'm like, yeah, like, you know, I'm straight. They're just writing me these tickets. And all of a sudden, my phone dies. And they're like, oh, you got your insurance on you? But my insurance is on my phone, like the progressive app.

So they end up writing me that. I take, like, oh, you're just getting a ticket for no valid insurance. You can just send us proof that you had it at the time with a pullover. And we'll take that off. We'll drop that. You're going to get the ticket. tent ticket and um that was it i was okay never said anything about like smelling weed or like anything like that all of a sudden i start seeing traffic like in the hotel i start seeing people in plain

clothes walking in and out of the hotel and so i'm kind of just standing there and it's cold as shit out i'm like what the fuck's going on and all of a sudden they um walk up to me one of the guys he's in plane closed and he's like hey uh my name's officer chickas um we're gonna be doing uh bringing a dog to do a sniff around your car um so i was like i'm like like like how did this just go from a traffic stop to now you're bringing a dog nobody even like said they smelled weed or asked if i was smoking we nothing like that and he's like yeah well i'll tell you more about that later so long story short they run the dog around my car like seven times and now i know like i know more about my case now because like i have all my discovery and like all my videos and you know like from like the cops talking

i can whatever like hear them on the video whatever so anyway long story short bang run the dog around the car like seven times they keep bringing them over to the tree let them take a pill bring them back, running around. And I don't see the dog. Like, I think they, like, sit or, like, they, like, jump or scratch or do some shit like that. I don't see none of that, right? So, cop comes up to the cop car. I'm not arrested.

I'm in the back seat, but I'm only sitting there because I'm freezing cold. I don't got a coat or anything on. I just got a jumpsuit on. So I'm just sitting in the back of the car, not saying shit to the cops. He come back there. Boom. Yeah, can we get your keys? And I was like, what is?

the dog hit and they're like no he didn't hit and i was okay well then why do you need my keys they're like well we could smell marijuana coming from your car and i'm like well we've been we had been standing here for like 45 minutes going round and around about these tickets and nobody ever said nothing about smelling any weed and now you're telling me that you smell weed in my car and like oh look man look it's just weed that's it you're not you're not gonna go to jail for weed like da da da da and i'm like look, I don't feel comfortable giving you my keys. I'm not agreeing to no search. And my keys were in my sweater, like the pocket right here.

My lanyard was hanging out the pocket. And they snatched the keys on my pocket, took it, unlocked the car, found the weed in the center console, right? So now they run this same dog that couldn't smell a half ounce of weed in, you know, a confined space like a truck. Couldn't smell it. Now, they run this same dog up in my hotel room. I had a suite. So it was a big, you know, room. And my bag, my duffel bag was in the back room, back bedroom.

And, you know, the drugs were in the bottom of the duffel bag inside of a pair of sweatpants pockets folded up. And so I'm like, fuck, I hope they do not go. Now I kind of know, like, all right, this is bigger than just some traffic shit. This is like somebody told on me or something. right so then they end up running the dog they say that all right so there's no cameras on the second floor of this hotel as they have the dog do the free air sniff because that's not against right they have that's not against like the law for them to bring a dog and do a free air sniff they can do that regardless right but they can't search unless the dog hits they cut their body cameras off

said that they got an alert from the dog dog on room 219 that I was staying in. And so that's why they got. So then the video cuts out from there's no, I don't see the dog, I'm smelling in front of the door. All I see is them opening the door to my room, like on my discovery video or whatever. So they obviously end up finding the drugs. I find like almost about 2,000 pills they found in there. And come down there, Officer Chick or Detective Chickas is like, you want to talk to me about, and I'm in the back of the cop car story. He's like, you want to talk to me about what we found in your room?

And I was like, I don't know what was in the room. Like, he's like, come on, smooth. Because some people call like just a nickname or whatever. He's like, come on, smooth, you don't. Come on. you sound a lot smoother than that. Just talking a little shit to me, right? And so I'm like, I really, like, I really don't know anything.

I don't know what's going on. I thought I was pulled over for a ticket. Y'all took my keys. Like, y'all searched my car. And he kind of seen that I was being a little combative with him. So he obviously knew, like, okay, he's probably not friendly with us, right? So, boom, and he shut the door. Oh, before they shut the door, they asked me, like, you got anything on you?

Like, you know, because if you do, It's a class be felony. The minute you pass through that garage because now you're going to be getting booked on distribution with intent to deliver. Yeah, I think that was what it was. Yeah. So, or possession with intent to deliver.

Some, one of those charges. But so I'm like, nope. Because at this time, I'm already thinking like, I'm already fucked. Like, why would I give you? And I need my pills because, like, I have to be good. I'm going to be sick in jail. And so.

So anyway, I had, it just ended up working out this way because the cop, it's cold as shit, and, you know, the divider between, like, the cop in the front and me in the back, the glass. I can't feel none of the heat hitting me. So I can, I, at this time, I wasn't cuffed yet because they hadn't came down and said they found anything yet. So I'm really just being, like, detained, so I don't have cuffs on. I'm just sitting back there. So it gave me an excuse to put my arms in my, you know, my sweater, right? So, and I'm watching myself on this guy's laptop.

It's like, you know, the camera for the backseat, I can see just in the little corner. I can see me right there. So I'm not trying to do like big movement, but I'm trying to push the pills, you know, like tuck the pills away, right? And, but I can't like, it sounds weird as hell, but it's hard to get the pills in between your, like, into your ass from the front, right? Because it's not like I can be in the cop. car going like you know they're going to be like the fuck you doing back there so i had my arms in my

sleeves and i was like just like trying to push them as far as i could without being like obvious that i'm doing something and so and no the pills weren't in my ass they were like just deep in between my ass cheeks right so uh they're like yeah you know there's a body scanner in there you know, everybody thinks they can outsmart it and they think we're lying. And then all of a sudden, we get to the jail and they see the scanner and, you know, they get caught up and they're fighting to the charge. And so when I walked in, the first thing I looked for was like, man, they really got a body scanner. And right when I walked in, the first thing I seen was that damn body scanner, I was like, fuck. And like, you stand on it and just, like, slide you through this little thing.

And they slid me, like, put me on it, slid me through. and the CO, he kind of seemed like he was like one of the cooler COs that worked in the jail. So I don't know if, like, maybe it was like, like, you know, like the airport when you go through the thing and it'd be like, like, a little yellow blob on the screen and they come, like, pat you down or whatever. I don't know if maybe there was, like, they seen something or if because it wasn't in my body technically, like, since it was just between my cheeks, maybe it's just like a scanner that only sees, like your insides.

So I don't know. I don't know how, but he's like, all right, you're good. go to that cell over there, we're going to get you stripped out. So now I've made it past that. Now I got to make it past getting stripped out butt naked in front of a CO. So I'm hoping he's going to be the one to strip me out because he seemed kind of cool. And like I had said earlier, I used to like get drugs and had like drugs in prison. And I was, you know, that was from the visiting room. So I was kind of familiar with like how to try to get away with some shit. So I like, um, he started stripping me out and the pills are still in between my cheeks.

And I, um, take off my shirt, boom, give my shirt, whatever, take off my pants. And he's all right, let's go hands, mouth, lift your nuts, turn around, squat, cough. But when I squat it, of like, you know, bending both of your knees because then, you know, like your cheek spread and if there's anything up there, it falls out. Instead of doing that, I, like, bent one knee and kept the other knee, like, straight. So I looked like I was, like, kind of crippled a little bit. And then if you would have been like, oh, like, what the fuck? Like, why can't you? I would just like, like, oh, I, like, I shot my leg or, you know, something why I can't bend down like that. But he like when I did it he kind of like looked at me for a second.

He was like, all right, here to put this on. Oh, I had to like take a little shower with the like light shit or whatever they make you do. And then boom. And then I realized like, damn, I just made it like into this jail. And I got like 250 pills on me. The drugs were just like I was really thankful because they kind of just kept me good while I was in there. Obviously I'm not going to go around telling people like I got shit because. then, you know, it's probably going to get out, somebody say something to a CEO,

and now I'm fighting, you know, a whole nother case. But I end up getting out, they gave me a $10,000 cash bond, bonded out, like the same day they gave me my bond, got picked up, went home, now I'm fighting this case, ended up getting a good lawyer, his name, well, it doesn't matter his name, ended up getting a good lawyer, $14,000. And he told me, like, you know, if this case happened, the way that you just told me it happened, then, you know, we got a really good case to work with. So, long story short, he filed a motion to suppress the evidence that was found in the car and in the hotel room because of the dog being like, it kind of made the dog look faulty that it missed this weed that was in the car. but now it's up at this room like hitting on a door on a substance that doesn't have any type of smell

and that it wasn't trained for at the time like the dog had no certifications um for any type of opiates or opioids so um filed the motion to suppress we ended up winning the motion well we didn't win it once we filed it the prosecutor came and had a meeting with my lawyer and told my lawyer that he thinks we probably got a 60% chance to win the motion to suppress. Now, if a prosecutor is laying his cards and exposing his hand that we think that it's in your favor that you're going to win, it's really probably like a 90% chance that I would have ended up winning the motion to suppress, and if I would have won that, the case would have just been thrown out.

So he ended up saying, would you take a deferred prosecution, two years probation, and go to treatment? and because I need and I need I'm the one that recommended treatment to my lawyer um and my lawyer was like you know would you take this he's like you know honestly we probably got a 90% chance to beat this case but you're not from out here it's a smaller town you know and you're from out you know in Minnesota by the city they don't like outsiders coming in here and selling drugs to their community So what if we, what if the judge says, it doesn't matter. No motion to suppress denied, right?

And now, now we just gave them the ball back, right? Right now we got the ball. So it's up to you. And so I just said, like, if you think you can make it through two years of probation, then I would take it. But if you feel like, you know, and I was like, I'm just going to take it. So I ended up to, and I just wanted to be done with it. Like, it was so stressful because at this time I had had a kid. And, you know, I was on drugs really, really bad.

And I had to just figure something out, right? So I ended up taking the deal, went to treatment for like 30-some, 40 days or something like that. I got sober. And that was two years ago now, I think it was 2024, I believe, January. Or when I took the deal, it was, I don't know, like. like May or something like that a couple years ago. But, and I've been sober ever since then. And I feel way better.

And I don't sell drugs no more. Even though it was really hard to go from making the type of money that I was making to, you know, now I have a really good paying job. I work with the union in manufacturing. I get paid really good money. I make really good money now, which I'm fortunate for that. But it was still a big pay cut, obviously, from making what I used to make. But that case scared the shit out of me.

And, you know, I've got a lot of my friends now that I used to sell drugs with. I'm literally the only one that's home. Everybody caught cases. Like, you know, the feds were coming down and, like, picking people up. And State was coming down. People were getting set up. People were working for the state, working for the government, and everybody was just getting picked off left and right. And literally, like, it was like, I woke up one day and I didn't have any more of my guys.

Like, we all, in the beginning, we were all had this big thing going. And then it was just like, you know, you wake up one day and oh, damn, he's gone. And now he just caught a case. And then he got picked up and he got picked up. And I'm the only one that, like, and had they not. didn't like had the police not handled it the way they handled it had they just kind of sat back watched me like you know make sales bust the people that I've sold to the people you know they're going to tell on me they're going to say this is the guy he gave me this or whatever and then they're

going to be okay we're going to give you three hundred dollars go buy some more and then you keep getting them sales and now there's really nothing that I can do because you've got me on sales charges, right, from a confidential informant that you had set me up. But the way they did is the minute they had my, they had got a warrant for my phone location. So the minute they seen me get on 94 West, they're like, oh, he's coming out here. And so that's why, like, when I said I got in the city, I kept seeing cops busting you, he's trying to get with me. It's because they had my phone pinged. So, so, yeah. So, yeah. So. after um now it's like shit i got ended up having two more kids so i got three kids in total now and

it's like now i i look back like i couldn't imagine being in prison right now and being away from my son you know um or catching the case like the money's good but it ain't worth it i know if i would went to prison i would have been regretting all that money and all the trips and all the nice clothes and shoes and cars and everything that I've gotten, I would have regretted everything. I would have wanted to trade it all back, you know, just to have my freedom and flip burgers or something, right? So, but yeah, like I said, now I'm sober, clean, I got a good job, got a family, on a house, you know, so there is hope, like, for success after prison. Success doesn't mean you go on to become a millionaire or you go on to get a big podcast and be in the top one percent or whatever you know

like success is just being able to my interpretation of success is being able to provide for your children provide for your family legally pay your taxes and stay out the way right and my case kids, they don't see the difference in me coming home making $1,500 a week versus me making $20,000 a week. They don't know the difference between that, you know? So to them, I'm dad and I'm a superhero, right? So that's where my success is at, is that I'm staying out the way. You know, I caught a blessing for real, for real, because normally shit like that don't happen, you know,

especially with the type of run that I had. It doesn't happen like that, where you get away with it and are out to tell the story and watch old videos and whatever, right? And it's like you're reminiscing from in prison, right? Just like my brothers that call me all the time are, man, send me that picture

and we was down in Miami in the strip club and da-da-da-da, right? Like, they got a reminisce in there where it's like I'm lucky I caught that break. So, yeah, now I'm just, taxpaying hardworking father that just has, I guess, a nice car and good clothes from selling drugs. Like, so. What advice would you tell your teenage self?

I would tell my teenage self, don't rush life. Take it slow. And you don't need to, there's nobody out here that you need to impress, right? Like, put your pride to the side. and just be a good person to people. Well, I appreciate you coming out on the show today, man. You did great. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks for telling your story. Yes, for sure. Awesome.