Locked In with Ian Bick - I Escaped Jail — Then Survived 32 Brutal Years in Prison | John Moore

Episode Date: March 11, 2026

John Moore grew up in Connecticut carrying the weight of childhood trauma that pushed him toward trouble at a young age. What started as a life of bad decisions quickly escalated into serious crime when he was arrested for kidnapping and robbery, but the chaos didn’t stop there. While sitting in jail awaiting his case, John continued fighting and causing problems until he made a desperate move, he escaped jail and fled to New York. While on the run he committed another robbery before eventually being caught, a decision that would change his life forever. Between charges in Connecticut and New York, John was ultimately sentenced to nearly 50 years in prison. In this episode of Locked In with Ian Bick, John shares the true story of surviving 32 years inside some of the most brutal prisons, navigating gangs, violence, and constant attacks while trying to stay alive. Despite the harsh reality of decades behind bars, John also found an unexpected light in the darkness, meeting the woman who would become his wife and building a family through conjugal visits while still incarcerated. _____________________________________________ #ianbick #lockedinpodcast #jailescape #prisonstory #prisonsurvival #truecrimepodcast #prisonlife #exinmate _____________________________________________ Connect with John Moore: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jay_triple_x?_r=1&_t=ZP-94JYBavrQIp YouTube: https://youtube.com/@jaytriplex?si=vFn5Ln4dyjyA5-yc _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Prison Escape: How the Breakout Happened 03:00 Childhood Struggles and Growing Up 07:00 First Arrests and Early Trouble With the Law 13:00 Escalating Crime and Facing Consequences 22:00 Juvenile Detention and Life Behind Bars Young 32:00 Jail Life, Prison Violence, and Survival 45:00 Solitary Confinement, Segregation, and Isolation 57:00 The Infamous County Jail Escape 01:01:00 On the Run: Living as a Fugitive 01:14:00 Hostage Situation and Final Surrender 01:21:00 Arrest, Police Beatings, and Sentencing 01:29:00 Entering the New York Prison System 01:39:00 Brutal Prison Life and Notorious Inmates 01:54:00 Turning Point: Love and Changing Direction 02:03:00 Returning to Connecticut and Family Loss 02:13:00 Release From Prison and Life After 02:21:00 Lessons From Prison and Regrets 02:28:00 Final Thoughts and Reflections Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I had these big huge old bullcutters that they have for the prisons. And I smashed this window. There was a cop on the other side of the window that came running to, like, stop me from coming through. I was scared to death to I hit that window, and the whole window just flipped out, hit the ground. And it was probably the most athletic I ever was to that point in my life. But I jumped through the window, rolled and came up. And that cop hauled ass. I would have hit him so hard.

I'm fucking bullcund. There was nobody that was stopping. I could hear the cop cars coming. You didn't even know that you were about to get released then before you escaped. There must have been like 50, 60 COs in there, and they just beat us. So you lost your opportunity in prison. When you're a human being that has actually been restrained and chained to a floor, where people can come in and do things to you, ain't nothing.

It's going to bother me after that. John Moore was already in jail for kidnapping and robbery when things spiraled even further out of control. After fighting and causing problems inside the jail, he made a desperate move. He escaped and went on the run in New York, a decision that would eventually cost him 32 years behind boss. I originally am from Connecticut. I was born in Bristol, but I live up in Rochester with my wife and children. She's a school teacher up there, and so I've been up there since I've been out. And Bristol's not too far from here.

Oh, that's what I was going to ask you. I'm not quite sure where I'm at, because I'm going to go visit a couple. I want to see my grandmother's grave while I'm here, my grandfather's grave. I haven't seen it. I have not been here in Connecticut without being either on parole or on the run from an escape or or or or in prison in the back of a patty wacking since I was 16 years old. It's the first time like when I crossed the border last night coming from New York, I looked at Aaron and it said, fuck man, I'm not on parole.

I'm not on nothing. I'm going into Connecticut. So I'm going to go to because I'm from the Torrington, Barclamstead, Winstead area. That's where I, a Litchfield County. That's why I came out of. And then now I'm up in up in Rochester. What was your upbringing like? not bad at all um i i guess like everybody from my generation i had it rough my mother was raised by two

people from the world war two era that had my grandfather fought in war war two my grandmother was uh she was during a great depression so and my grandmother was kind of a she was a wonderful woman, but she was in 1940-something, she was on Broadway as a, not a, not a bralist dancer, but like a dancer that would dance with all the high class guys. And then she met my grandfather and then they, you know, had my mother. But my mother was very strict and she had to be because I was born. I had, I had foreseps or whatever it is. I had a lot of birth defects when I was born.

and I had extreme ADHD, hyperactivity. That was before they had any diagnosis for that. So my mother didn't know what to do, so she was real strict with me. And then she had her own issues. And my grandfather was like her everything. And then he passed away. And when he passed away, I got molested from her side of the family because we started dealing with her cousins and stuff.

And I started getting molested on and off from a cousin. And with the learning disabilities, with the hyperactivity, with the very strict religious mother who became religious as time went on. And again, I'm not saying anything bad about my mother. I love my mother. She did the best she could. She raised me. She did. I wouldn't be here without her, but she had to be real hard on me.

You know, she had a kid who had all these problems and then he was molested and behaviorally. I started stealing. I started. just lying cons. I never told anybody anything. It just, it changed who I was. And I went through the school system. I got kicked out of school at like sixth grade.

I never, six-seventh. I went to seventh grade, and I never went to any other grade after that. The school took me out, and they put me in a mental, whatever you want to call it, for the youth. It was at Mount Sine. It was in Hartford,

and it was a place for the youth. And that kind of introduced me to people that were like me. Because before, I know I'm kind of jumping around. I'm trying to give you a brief. Before I met these people, I had only met people from church and people that were pretending to be good, but were really pieces of shit on the low. And they were always judging me because, again, you know, I had smoked. I was a Mormon.

My mother was a Mormon. My father was a Mormon. And so there's a lot of strictness with that. So it was, you know. So I met people that were like me, and I said, shit, I'm not the only one that's fucked up. So when I came out of the mental youth home, whatever you want to call it, I was probably around 13. And I had just, you know, and my mother and me were not getting along at all because I didn't want to hear anything she had to say because I got a taste of people that were like me, people that had problems, people that listened to me. You know, people that weren't what they were trying to show me the world was.

They were actually broken people like me. And I wanted to be around them. I didn't want to be around my family no more. I wanted to be around people that, you know, if I wanted to smoke a cigarette, I could smoke a cigarette. If I wanted to pierce my ears, I could pierce my ears. If I want, you know, I wanted to be a kid. And I wasn't allowed to do that because of all my... So, uh, one thing led to another.

I started running away from home. And that never, that never ends up good. Even though I was in a small town, again, I was raised in Barkhamson. Barcamsid. Bar Camsid's a one horse town. Back then, it was Route 219. There was nobody around. I had no friends.

I never went to any party. No childhood friends. I have none. Absolutely none. Didn't have any then, don't have any now. Never had any. The kids that I hung out with and torrented and Winston, like if you looked at my police reports,

what would happen is I would go and live with them. Or I lived with this one lady. I would run away from my home and I'd live with her. And she'd have a steel stuff so that we could stay there. And then, you know, so they were real great citizens that I lived. with. And then one thing led to another, and then people would get caught, and they'd go, oh, well, John Moore did it. And the police in Torrington did it, Winston. I already had a reputation from stupid stuff, like, you know, my mother calling the police because I ran away from home,

and they'd see me on my dirt bike riding down the road, so you'd get arrested for something stupid. Everything I ever did was stupid. I never committed a crime in the street that made any sense. It was just a kid that was whiling out that had a lot of fucked up mental problems and didn't know what to do and didn't have anybody to talk to and nobody understood. And I didn't understand. So it was a train wreck ready to happen. And I was afraid. I wasn't afraid, but I knew that at the end of the day, I was either going to go to the military or I was going to go to prison or dead. There was no in between. And again, I was in small towns, torrented, Winston, that's not any city stuff. But when you're on your own and you're a kid, even in these

small little towns, there's an underworld. There's a, there's a, that'll take advantage or whatever. So I started doing petty crimes. At one point, we were stealing hood ornaments. When he used to have hood ornaments on the top of the cars where they used to stick up out of the hood, we were pulling them off. Stealing clothes out of cars to survive. And I had a girlfriend and I stole the jacket out of a car and she got caught stealing something and told them that I did it, and I got a warrant for it. And then, like, I'd have, the cops would try to come and get me, and every time they'd come to get me, I'd run away.

I'd get away from them in Torrington. And they didn't like that, especially when you're 14, 15, 16 years old, and you're jumping in cars and stealing them, and they can't catch you on the highway? You're 15 years old. The cop is professionally supposed to be able to get you. So they didn't like that. So they started to really push.

to get me and one thing led to another and uh I ended up uh 16 my school like I said I got kicked out of school I had a private tutor here and there I was going when I was at home I was going to like I'd have like two hours of a of a tutor and then they'd send me to like this adult mental outpatient clinic where I'd sit there and get counseling about drug addiction and sex addiction and you name it and I had none of that I was I was 14 years old. You had me in a room, the school district had me in a room full of adults. They were all fucked up like I am now as a kid. Like it never made no sense to me. I think it helped shape who I became, you know, I wanted to. So I, uh, I ended up committing petty crimes. The

cops kept trying to get me. A couple times I got caught. I'd escape. A couple juvenile, small little juvenile lockups, I'd get out. And then a judge emancipated me one day because I got arrested in Torrington for calling in a bomb threat. There's a kid in the bowling alley. Somebody dared me like, hey, it's before, I go by Jay is my nickname, but back then everybody called me John and whatever. It was a prison thing. But I called up a, yeah, there's a bomb here, and we ran away. And they told on me. And then he arrested me. So I went before. a judge. My parents went there and the judge was like, look, you're always coming in here anyways. You're 16 years old. And he just signed it off. You can do it on their own. And then after

that, I never saw my family again, you know, free until I got out. Because four months later, I was, uh, I was, I was in jail. I escaped from them twice before they actually got me. One, the last one was, uh, the worst crime that I had went to jail for was I had a, it was a carjacking that they said was a kidnapping. And I've always, it's the only crime. I got to be honest, which it's the only crime I don't like that I don't like. I never liked it. I always felt bad about it.

The only one. And I was on the run from the cops. Well, I had stole the car the night before because they kept chasing me. I didn't want to go to jail. Kept running. All I knew how to do was run. And I think that had to do with being molested. I think that when you're molested or you have some kind of trauma,

your your main focus is to run you never want to stay where you're being tortured at you know so i would run and uh they didn't like it so long story short i got into a police chase i had broke into a house because they were chasing us as kids um i broke into a house with a buddy of mine we found some guns and uh my plan anyways i can't say that but i got to We found the guns, and long story short, the cops are on us. I get into a police chase. I end up running in the back of an IGA grocery store, and I opened up a, it was a truck. I opened up the door, and I pulled the gun on it.

It was a lady, and I pulled the gun on her, and I told I was taking her truck. And instead of having her get out right down and there, she slid over into the passenger seat. I'm on the run. I'm a kid. When I did this, I, uh, I opened up the gun and I, you know, I showed her there was bullets and everything in it. I didn't know what I was doing. I was like in a fog. I just needed that vehicle. I had to get the fuck out of there. I, I did. So she slid over in the seat and, uh, we took off and I let her go. Never touched her. I know I, I told I was in a, I think I told her I was in a,

I don't know what I was going to do. I was scared to death. But it's the one, I paid my time for it so I can talk about it. I'm not going to mention no names. That was the one crime I didn't like, but all the other ones that I didn't give a fuck about, the petty larcenies, the, the, the, the, the, I didn't care. It didn't bother me. So what happens with that? You guys are on the run and how do they catch you? Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. So, so I, um, I have her in the car and I drive up the road and, uh, uh, she tells me that, you know, she was in a military and she says something about her family or whatever. And she said, you know, I have kids.

And I pulled over and I let her out. I told her, don't call the cops. I mean, she must have ran up the road and called the cops on me right away. Because I went to pick up my friend that I was in the, had broke into the houses with that day. And when I pulled up to pick him up, the cop was coming by this way.

And he's seen the truck and he's seen me as the kid was getting into the truck. And he hit his light, so I hit the gas and took off. And in Winston, it's the main road in Winston. I can't remember the name. There was a church, it's a four-way section. And the cops were looking for me for a good couple hours at that point. And I came flying down this road and this truck in the four-way.

And there must have been 25 state trooper cars there at the red light. So as I'm driving, and if there's one thing I knew, I knew how to drive, because my father taught me how to drive when I was like a kid. I could drive any vehicle, anything, standard, automatic. Only thing I never flew was a flying machine. You know what I mean? So I'm coming into the intersection, and the kid's neck to me. He's like, what are you going to do?

So I swerved around it with a red light, and I just went flying. As soon as I went through that intersection, all them lights lit up. I'm driving. I'm trying to look for somewhere to pull off to, and we had just had a snowstorm. So I'm trying to find somewhere where I can pull. off to, pull the truck into, get out and run. Because once I'm out of that vehicle, on foot, you're not catching me. I don't get back down, I didn't give a fuck who you were.

I was a skinny kid. I ran track. I raced BMX. I was athletic. You were not catching me. And I knew how to hide because I lived in the woods. So I'm mad cockcars behind me. So I'm driving.

I'm driving. I see a road. I cut up the side of the road. And I told that, I said, hold on. And I've seen it was like a little mound going into somebody. It was an open field. And I must have been doing 80, maybe more in that truck. I don't know.

But I hit this mountain in that fucking truck and we launched. And when I hit, I don't know how I didn't die and he didn't die because I smashed into the steering wheel. Boom. And I came back. His head went into the windshield. The whole front of the truck was smashed into a tree. And the cops were coming over smashing into the back of me.

We jumped out. I kicked the door and I got out my side of the thing. And I took off. And this was in back of, it was a couple of streets in back of the Winston Hospital. It was up a hill. I remember because I had to run up the hill, big steep hill in the woods. And I had the guns on me. And that was, I turned around now in my, in my, in my, what do they call that when they give you the description of the crimes.

You know, they give you the whole. Like indictment or? Yeah. Well, the original one, like where they, the arrest warrant. It talks about I turned around and fired. Now, I don't remember if I did or I didn't, but it does say that on the paper, so I was like, well, shit, did I fire?

I don't remember. I remember I fired the gun later on, but I don't really honestly remember if that was, you know. So anyway, so I get away from them, and Alan gets away from them, surprisingly enough, all these fucking cops and they can't catch you again. Back then, I just think they were just big, dumb idiots or something. And they were, they, if they didn't have information, they weren't going to get you.

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Jeep has won more awards over its lifetime than, any of the SCB branch, even the Jeep Grohl or registered trademarks of XIAUS LLC. We were gone. How did he get his head out of the window or the windshield? Well, he just hit his window in it, like smashed the, his whole front of his, his head was all bloody. It's, you know how the windows got the protective thing? He smashed it and pushed it in and came back and I remember going, oh, my God, are you all right? What am I going to do?

There's, there's cops everywhere. I'm getting out of there. Like, you can either run or get caught. At this point, I'm getting away. It's every man for himself. I didn't know if he got away because I didn't see him for hours until later. So I take off in my own direction and I'm sneaking around and there's cops everywhere. And Winston Torrington, you know, you're in the woods and then you got like a little teeny.

I don't know if you've ever been up there. The little teeny kind of like here, little towns, little back roads. And I had a friend that worked at a Dunkin' Donuts. And this is when, like, Dunkin' Donuts was first becoming big. It used to be best eating. They have the drive-thrus. Drive-thrus was just becoming a big. So I snuck all the way back from there, snuck across the street,

and I seen that he was working, and I went around. And I knocked on the window, and there was cop cars all in the Dunkin' Donuts. And I'm looking, and I knocked on the window, and he came to the window, and he goes, get away, so I got away. And they took off, and I came back. And I said, listen, I've got to get out of it. They're going to kill me. he goes, where do you want to go?

And like, he would have taken me anywhere, anywhere in the world that kid would have took me. And I would say he's a friend from the past. I never talked to him again, but he put me in his caravan under all his brothers and sisters. He had like 12 brothers and sisters, all the dirty clothes was in the caravan. So I got in there and got underneath him.

He goes, where do you want to go? I went right. I said, bring me to Torrington. That's where they were going to look for me. So I went, I went back to Torrington. He snuck me out. There were roads closed and everything. He snuck me right out.

They all knew him. Again, it's a one-horse town. They all knew him. He worked at the Dunkin' Donuts. He drove me into Torrington. I got out. He wished me luck. The guns that I had, I went and got rid of him.

And, uh, I, I met a kid that night that I knew he had a Volkswagen bug. And I, I wanted, I needed somewhere to stay. It was freezing outside. It's the middle of the winter. So I got in the back of the Volkswagen bug, and I remember I was so tired. I'd been on a run for days. And you know, when you run your, your, your, your, uh, adrenaline. When you finally get a chance to chill, you crash. And when you crash, you crash dead to the world. So I fell asleep in the back of this Volkswagen bug. Now, I never got high. I never drank back then. Like, no drugs were ever part of any of the insanity that I ever did. I was just crazy just because, like it was, you know, um, um, So I fell asleep in the back of a Volkswagen bug. And I guess he had been drag racing people up and down Main Street all night long. I'm sleeping out.

They pull us over. Remember the cop waking me up. So I get up. Everybody when I get out of the car is all in the police cars. And the cop goes, what's your name? So I gave him a name that I always used. It was a kid that I went to school with. gave him his name. It was always an alias

that I used. I don't know why it was, I could remember the name. So the cop knew me. I had a leather jacket on. The cop knew who I was and he looked at me. He goes, yeah, okay. So he reaches into the Volkswagen bug and he pulls out like a bat and he had like nails it and some, he goes, well, what's this? I said, well, what the fuck do I know? I was sleeping. You woke me up.

I wasn't driving. So he goes, another cop car pulls up when he's questioning me. When the other cop car pulls up, he jumps out and he pulls out his gun. He's like, Mr. Moore, don't move. And I was like, oh, because you got to remember, I just had the kidnapping. And so there's a manhunt for me. So I'm standing, I get the leather jacket on, they search me,

he reaches in my pocket, and he pulls out bullets from the guns. So they freak out with that. So he's standing there, he's got the gun on me. I'm in the middle of the street. It's probably like three in the morning. The cop, the searching the Volkswagen, turns around and goes to the cop with the gun. He goes, hey, hold him. this. So the cop with the gun goes, oh, puts it down and goes to reach for it and I spun

and took off. And when I took off, that cop was like, oh shit, he's running. Couldn't catch me. I heard him fall on the ground or whatever. I ended up sleeping in a pigeon coop for most of that night. And then I went to a house that I stayed in. It was like a, I guess you'd call it like a flop house. I just stayed in there any time. It was all of us, all of us runaway, abandoned kids stayed there. That's where they ended up catching me the next morning because when I went in the house to stay, I asked the kids that were in there like, you know, anybody here?

They were like, no, the cops left, you're good. But they just went downstairs and called the cops. So when the cops came in, I was underneath the bed. And I'll tell you the truth, dude. I don't know how I haven't been killed time and time again because when you pull the mattress back, my fucking luck is a water gun right there.

And the guy's like, he's got a gun. I got no gun. I got no gun. Please, please. So there's lights everywhere, and they drag me out of there, put me in the car. And as soon as I get in the car, handcuffed, you know, jackass cop comes up and goes, remember me? I'm going to break your legs.

You hurt me when you run. You think you're fast. So they started threatening me. They bring me to the city lockups or whatever. I get arraigned. And that was that part. I end up going to, where do I go? I go to HCC.

I was telling you about the Ewing. So I had a, I had a pair of blue, Navy Blue back then, Patrick Ewing's. They'd just come out, had a little 33. They were like the shit to have, I guess. And I go into the county jail. And the very first day, I go in. I'm there. A kid walks up to me, asked me what gang I was in.

And that's when Connecticut was in the height of their gang. They had, oh, God, what they had? They had the Latin Kings. We can say the names out? Yeah. Okay. I had the Latin Kings. They had the solids.

They had, no, the solids weren't around there. They had Nation, Brotherhood. 20 Love was out of Harford. There was like a million of them in Canada. Oh, it used to be Elm City, but then it became like something different. I don't know. It's just a thousand different gangs they had. So every, you had to join a game.

gang or you had the fight i learned and uh that very first day i had them sneakers on they came up to me and what gang are you with and i was like i'm not with a gang and the next thing i know i had six of them on top of me beating the shit out of me boom boom boom took my sneakers the whole nine yard peed on me left me in the fucking corner so uh i mean what do you do was my first exposure to prison i hadn't really formulated it was my first exposure to prison i hadn't really who I was. I hadn't built. I was 16.

Just turned 16. I turned 16 in June. This is like November, dude. It wasn't like, you know what I mean? I was never even around any, like, real hardcore criminals. This was my first. So, yeah, I got jumped. So they, they bring me,

they come and get me, bring me in the hospital, whatever, but they end up putting me in the same block and in the same cell because I was 16 again. So they didn't have a lot of places for people like us back then, especially in these areas. Like the lockups and stuff didn't really have, they'd have like a little wing for the youth or whatever, but they didn't have like, NYU was the big one.

And I was in NYU, and that's a fucking cesspool of hell. But it just was one thing after another. Like my story is so, so long with this. I get, it comes, you know, like I remember parts and then I want to jump over to here. So it's hard for me to, but I ended up in the lockup and I ended up in the cell

with the kid that started, the white kid that started the whole thing and he was in a black game and so, you know, it was just fighting, fighting, fighting, and I ended up going into the day room with all of them.

And it's tough to have to go to sleep in a cell when the kid jumped you with his boys and you know if you do anything at this point. Dude, you know you went to jail. You're not, you know, you, you looked like I looked when I went to prison.

You saw my pictures. I was a skinny little white kid, dude. I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't a gangster. But I was forced to be. I was forced to be somebody that I shouldn't have been. Somebody, I'm sorry, but I didn't think I was going to get emotional on that. Because I'm thinking about it as I'm talking. I didn't think that I was going to get,

become that or be put in that situation. I didn't know what to do. So I fought. I fought because that's all I knew how to do. I just threw my feet and my hands and my head and I just run at them. I didn't give a fuck. I'd grab a stool.

I'd bite. I'd scratch. And we went into the day room and I was like, well, I'll fight every one of you one on one. And I did. And I was beating them. And they didn't like that. So they whipped my ass again.

So they took me to HCC, which is in Hartford. HCC they put me in a in a in a in a in a in a in a in a in a in a in a in a in a two you know they're all black not to be you know but it's the truth I was white there were all black kids they were all from the hood and they all knew somebody and you know time and time again I watch the pat podcast and I hear the the black dudes they'll tell you you know white white dudes go to jail they got a problem I don't give a fuck who you are white dudes go to jail, they have a problem from day one. And it don't make a difference if you're respectful or if you're not. A lot of them fold. A lot of them fold. And it's not easy to not fold.

You know, I've fought and I've folded and I've run and I've hid and I've also stood out there like, what do y'all want to do? But at different stages of my life, that was just pure survival. It's such a numbing moment in my brain. And then the COs were down with the gangs. So as soon as you got into it with one of the gangs in these little city jails, they were cracking yourself for these guys to come get you.

And again, I'm a little skinny, 16-year-old white kid. Dude, they stole my sneakers, so I didn't have anything else. It was the only thing that I owned. Uh, uh, uh, what the fuck did they want to bug me for? Like, I didn't even bother anybody. I was afraid to go eat. Like, I was a mouse.

I would ask for a cigarette because we smoked in cigarettes back then. So I'd, you know, bomb a cigarette or whatever. I didn't have no money or no family. And it was just fight after fight after fight. So long story short, I ended up in NYU. And by the time I get to NYU, I'm completely crazy. I've been in and out of SEG. And these SEG sales back then are not like what these guys see now.

These were, like, HCC had a square pad in the middle, of them sell. And the lights were on 24 hours a day and it was cold in there and you were naked and if you acted up, they'd chain you to the fucking bed, like chain you, chain you, you know, for hours and leave you there. It was, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, you know, you got everybody in seg screaming and yelling. At 16, 17 years old, you're fighting every day, you, it's just, it's madness. I probably sounds like madness when I'm explaining it because that's exactly what it was.

Every day. Nonstop. Like, every single day, dude, I swear to God. I did not have a day where there wasn't some kind of, uh, something. Somebody was at my door. They wanted to fuck me. They wanted me to go and stab somebody.

They wanted money that I didn't have. They wanted, like, every fucking day. I don't know anybody. I don't really know how to talk to anybody because I didn't really have communication skills to begin with. I'm a hick from whatever.

Now I'm thrown into the city and I'm like, what the fuck? But this goes back to my mother. My mother, I couldn't read when I was a kid or write. I couldn't spell. I couldn't read.

And it wasn't that I didn't understood. I just would look at it and it didn't make any sense to me. Now when I was a kid If I'm going too far Let me know When I was a kid I um

I had like a crib death And it My brain was shut off for a minute I guess And my niece has the same thing She had it years later And it's very similar in my family Me and her have it

And it did something And it took me a lot of years Now I can read I can write I can do all that But there was a long time I just Nothing made sense

So my mom used to take, and she'd be like, okay, here's a, here's a bottle of water. You see what this looks like? And I'd be like, yeah, she'd go in the store and find that for me. I'd go in the store and I'd find it and bring it out. So observation skills and being able to not being able to read and write, I had to learn how to be able to read the room or read the situation. Or know that sometimes if I couldn't read, I had to somehow explain to you. You know what I mean? Like I had to learn how to adapt to the situation, I guess,

not being able to have them other skills. So I, you know, I would talk to people here and there, and I'd start learning. It was rough in the beginning because back in Connecticut, this is in Connecticut, and Connecticut's prison system, compared to New York's prison system, is Connecticut was never as violent.

Like I was, I thought I was going to physically die at points in New York. Because in New York, they kill you. In Connecticut, they cut you. Inmates. There's deaths. But there's not like the abundance. I was in a jail in New York that eight people will die a year. I mean, for a prison, that's a lot of people, you know.

So Connecticut was, but mentally, and the way that they, they mentally fuck with their inmates, bar none they are the greatest in the world. They torture you in Connecticut prison. Everything they do is to torture you somehow. At least back then. Now they've implemented some stuff that I think has made people too soft.

And I'm not mad that I went through these things. I'm glad. But the skills of my mom gave me by teaching me how to do stuff is what helped me learn in the prison. Well, okay, maybe if I do this differently, maybe if I do that, these are skills that she... I feel that's what helped me. Her teachings and that.

So that's why I always revert. I'll revert back to her. So skip forward a little bit here through the HCC travel and back and forth. I got transferred every day in Connecticut for a year, every day in the bus, every day. Because everywhere I would go, I'd get into a fight immediately. As soon as I'd get there, I got to a point where I'd get into the, and it wasn't just black dudes. Like, sometimes I'd be like, yeah, you know, but it was the white dudes in Connecticut because they were all up to black. dude's asses because they wanted to survive in prison. And then they were all up to Puerto Rican

guy's asses because they had the numbers. Like it was, and I didn't want to be up any of their asses. I didn't want to deal with any of them. Um, I didn't know what I wanted to do. So, uh, they started putting me in MHU, you know, mental stuff, giving you pills. Because back then, if you had a lot of violence, they thought you were crazy. So they would pump you with drugs. And if you didn't take it, they'd come in and they'd hold you down and they'd shoot you with a needle. Or they'd put you in whenever nearest criminally insane mental hospital they had and they'd fuck with you in there. So I've been to a few of them in and out. And I was in NYU. And it was towards the end of my stay at NYU. I went to see a doctor one time and they had me on so much

medication. I mean, I would just piss on myself. I didn't, you know, I had no, they had me at Haldol, Thorzine, lithium, you name it, they had, they just kept pumping me with drugs and I'd be in my cell all day long, or I'd have a cellie, you know, and, and it, dude, for me to explain that type of, I don't know that I can explain, I think you have to experience that craziness. If anybody was in NYU back then, they'll know exactly what the fuck I'm saying. So I went to see this doctor, and I guess I went in, and I was drooling to myself, and I pissed on myself, and she went crazy. She said, they're trying to kill you. I don't know what they're doing. They took me off all these meds. So I started to come out of my cloud a little bit, because for like a good year or two.

Now, I'm in jail, like 89. This is when this starts, 89, 90. This is about 91. I'm starting to, like, come out of my mental fog or whatever. I'm starting to realize a little bit more of what's going on in prison. here, 91. So I'm in M.YI and I ended up tying this kid to his bed and beating him with. They had these soaps. We used to get these big bars of white soap and I crushed them up. And I put them in a sock, a bunch of socks because if you wet it, you could beat somebody with it for a lot of hours

and not leave bruises. But you could hurt them. And I got lucky and I tied this black kid to his bed that I lived with him and his boys kept jumping me. They jumped me like four or five times. For no reason. A kid. Dude, for what reason? They'd put you in a cell. There'd be two guys in the bed, and then they'd have you on the floor in a bunk, in an 8 by 10 with a solid door and a glass. These are two 20-year-old black kids from Hartford and Bridgeport

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Beat him. Tortured. Beat him. Fucker. They kicked me on. that, am I for that. Never let me go back. And I ended up in Litchfield County Jail. And back then, Litchfield County Jail is a really, it was the oldest jail and it was the only jail to ever be connected to a bank. The original part of the jail is connected to a bank. There's three parts of this

jail. There's a minimum. There's a medium and then there's a max. Now, they don't talk about the max part hardly at all. when they talk about Litchfield County Jail, because the max part was really kind of like, that's where they put the worst of the worst, and they wanted to hide it. I'm talking about violent, worst of the worst, to sex offender, worst of the worst.

Now, I'm a 17, because I escaped when I was 18, and I was there for a year. It's right across the street from the court that I go to. It's in my county, but this is like a, you know, so this jail is so old. They don't have power in the cells. So we used to have to like,

you take a candle and you cut it out and put some baby oil in it with a, and you make a candle. You know, you could do it with soap. You can, you can, we used to have to have our own candles to have power to read at night or whatever. And you'd smoke in the prisons at that point.

But there were no, no power in any of the cells down there. And they were locked cells where you'd go in your cell bars, shut the door, they'd lock it with a key, and then they'd hit it with a, what do they call it, a boat lock. I can't think right now. It's on the old galleys. You pull them, and then they'll open all the cells. So when you're in, you're in at night, all single bunk.

And some of the cells are a cell like that, but no sink and no toilet. So it's a dry cell, but they keep people in there because they'll let you go to the bathroom midnight or whatever. It's usually separate. So I was there and it was the worst of the worst kind of people on that part. And I had a high bond again because I was an asshole. I would keep running from the cops. There wasn't a single time that they would get me that I wasn't gone. Not only did I not like the inmates, I didn't like the cops. So I was kind of fucked either way. So I get to this Litchfield County Jail. And it was like it was like pouring gasoline on a fire. So there was a kid there that I knew from NYU

named, uh, just whatever. Off and on buddy of mine. And, uh, there is not a single day in that jail that I wasn't. Tortured mentally, physically, or spiritually. That's not no joke. I tried to escape from that jail three times. Um, I tried to dig out one time above a cell. Me and my boy tried to dig out.

We were all the way to the very last brick to kick it out and go. when the guy snitched on it and caught it. So it was after I'd been there so long, I was tired, and I was in Segg, and they kept keeping me in these dry cells where they would lock me in. And I don't understand why they'd lock me in these cells. It'd be a single cell with no sink, no toilet. But I'd be back there with like two of the most vicious motherfuckers

that were in Connecticut locked in there. Dude, I'm 16. These guys are 40, 50. They can't go anywhere else. They're there because they're trying to have their state don't know what to do with them. and you're putting a young kid around them. And I tell my wife a lot, I say, you know, they did that,

they do that because they throw fish to the, they throw fish to the old-timers. Back then they used to. These were guys that they wanted to keep calm. Same reason why they give conjugal visits to people in New York prison because they want to keep the lifers calm. So I was in a fish. I would fight and bite.

So you weren't going to, I'm not, you know, whatever it was. But I was a jerk, too, and I got to do it with the cops. Long story short again, I want to get to the escape because I had this one cop that I didn't like. And, again, I tried to escape from this jail three times. One time I climbed the galley, came out of locked out and climbed the galley, I had C.O. swinging off my feet.

Guys cheering, but the same guys that would cheer for me to act crazy with the same guys that would pick on me. And I don't like to say that, like to say that, like I was bullied or I was picked on. Because I like to have a persona about myself years later that, you know, I'm a man. You're not going to, but I was picked on at one point in my life. There's no question about it. And I had to learn how not to be picked on because I wasn't going home.

I had to learn how to survive and I, you know, I wasn't going to PC. I didn't even know what the fuck that was back then. I learned about that stuff later on. I would have did it probably if I would have realized that I might have had a better go, but then I would see, like years later, I would see them places and they're worse than population. So no matter what, when you're in that fucking house, and it don't matter, it don't matter how long you're in it when you're in it and you're in them bad areas.

You understand, you know? So I ended up throwing water on this cop. They bring me to the Segg Cell, the Segg Cell, the Seggsells downstairs. It's as wide as a mattress. prison mattresses are. It's as long as a mattress is as wide as a mattress. It's behind and it's round. The cell is round. It's a dry cell. It's on the floor. It looked like going into the basement. You have like a little closet. It's got metal bars and then and then in between the metal bars probably like as wide as your your rug with a white part right there. A big solid red door

with slots in it. No lights. Can't stand up in this fucking thing. This is. This is their seg cell from like the 1800s. You're only supposed to do a few hours in there. I was in there for six months. And they would, I would have to beg to go to the bathroom. Dude, there wasn't enough room. You couldn't stand up, kid. You couldn't.

If they don't let you go to the bathroom, you're shitting and pissing exactly where you're sleeping, bro. Food, you're lucky if you feed you, especially I assaulted a cop. There's no cameras. There's no, there's nobody to cry to. There's nobody to talk to. There ain't no wardens or captains or mommy's. Nothing.

I'm in that cell 24 hours a day, begging to go to the bathroom, shitting and pissing right where. That jail's still there. It's a restaurant now. I'm going to see what it looks like. Oh, that I've seen that restaurant. I want to meet the owners.

I'm the last guy to escape from there. They shut that jail down because of me. Because when they went in there, it was a human rights violation. They were like, what the fuck is this place? Wow. I was in the cell that they used to chain me to the floor in.

They'd leave me in the cell for no, I mean, you'd be sleeping at night on your mattress if you couldn't. There'd be bugs crying across you. There'd be mice. Have to beg a cop to go to the bathroom. Then they'd bring you up to the bathroom. And they had the little cop office. And then there'd be like a little bullpen area.

And I knew the bullpen area real well because they kept me in there for like three months. When I first got arrested years before, because it was too young to go into populations. So they kept me there. So I knew that here. you real well. I lived in there. Let me go to the bathroom. And it was a bullpen area where, next to the AP room where it had,

you know, escape fence metal. You don't know what I'm talking about. And you had security. They let you out, buzz you through. And then there'd be another one of a red door with a big window. That's when you went into the bullpen area where they'd let the guys who were in and he sells pee. And then they'd have their little place where they take your pictures. It's all old, very old. So when I was in this cell, I didn't know what to do. I had that kid, I mentioned before,

and he'd come to the cell and talk to me every once in a while through the holes. People'd come by and try to tell me, why don't you just calm down, bro? Why don't you just calm down? Things will get better. I pissed everybody off one night because they let me out of the cell for a wreck. I had a cop. There were some cops that would come on.

There would be decent human beings. And it'd be like, hey, we're going to give you your hour wreck. You've been in here for like two weeks. You haven't aired out. You stink, you know, let you get a shower, clean up the poop on your floor, and run around. So what I chose to do was come out and break the... They had the, you know, for the fire extinguishers, they had the pipe. And I jumped up and pulled that fucker down and flooded the whole jail.

That's what I chose to do with my hour. So they came and, you know, cleaned it up, beat me up, put me back in the cell. I'm a slow learner, I guess. So the kid kept coming by myself and talking to me. So one day it was the same kid that I tried to escape with. I'm not going to say his name. He's still incarcerated because he was in jail for... He had a murder case.

So he had a completely different case than I was in jail for. I just knew him from jail. And he was kind of like me where he was, you know, learn in jail, but he was a little bit hardened. They liked him a little bit more. He was older. He did drugs. Again, I didn't get... hi. Dude, I read the Bible

before I went to prison. You know what I mean? I read the Book of Mormon. I went to Boy Scouts. I was a bad kid, but I was only a bad kid for this much time, not my whole life. Just, I did bad moments. So he came by one day

and I was like, you know, I'm going to escape. I'm going to get the fuck out of here. I can't do this no more. He was like, well, how are you going to do it? So I said, well, they let me out of here. to go to the bathroom and go into the AP room, I said, I know when I go into the AP room, there's a cabinet that's got bolt cutters in it. I knew everything in that AP room

because, again, they used to test you when went to prison. They'd give you like a school test to see where you were. I couldn't read it right, so I would always test like I was a retard. I don't know if I could use that, but you could edit it out. But I would test literally like I was mentally retarded.

It would say low intelligence. So they thought I was stupid. But I wasn't. I was far from stupid. I just, I didn't learn the way they learned. So I'd be in that office looking at everything. You got to remember, I always was into escape. I always wanted to escape. I never wanted to be there. So I said, I know how to get out of here, get me a piece of metal. So back then they used to have the mop buckets. And one of the reasons why Connecticut don't have them anymore either with the metal rod that goes. So he brought me one of them suckers and slid it under the door. I got it. I sharpened you. I broke it. you know bending it back and forth you get it hot enough hot enough it'll snap then you sharpen that fucker on the wall for hours hours hours keep sharpening it sharpen it sharpening it gets so hot your fingers bleed you gotta be i tell everybody all the time because dudes you know oh no shake that dude oh you got to be mad to make a knife like a knife out of nothing like in this room i'll play a game uh how what would you use for a weapon if you

needed one right away i'd beat your depth of the microphone you know what i mean like you got to think. So I sharpened that thing. I was so mad. And I told Chris, I said, oh, I said, it's got to be the right cop, because there was one CEO that was real nice to me, kind. Let me out, give me something to eat. Never, never a dick. Didn't like, didn't like what was going on. I had this one boy, he was, he was a tough, he was a tough bird. And I waited, I waited for him to come on and uh he came down that night it was like 11 just before shift change was when i escaped march 13th 2000 um no march 13th 1992 i escaped 12 o'clock mid well 11 or 12 like it was right at the when you see it and read it it'll tell you it's right you know um and i was in the cell

cop came down I'm trying not to use names a cop came down and uh I asked one and said hey they got to open the red door and look in you're all right in there more yeah can he use the bathroom

he goes I'll fucking see if I have time and he never really ever used to let me out once in a while if I like really fucking come on man please I'm begging you I had to really beg this cock sucker to let me out And you got to think about the type of human being

that would look at a kid, even if you didn't like him, dude. I had been in that jail. He knew me. I was 18 at that time, so, you know, I'd gone in 16, now I'm 18. Still not sentenced in the courts, going back and forth to court.

So I never was in state facility. This is, I was never in, you know, the main part at this point. I was only in the county jails of Connecticut. And then they put you, they combine them so it gets kind of confusing. So he'd come down and he said, I'll let you out when I'm done with my checks.

He, whatever, it was like a half hour. I don't fucking remember. So he came back down and I was so scared, dude, shaking inside. I had the ice pick stuck in my pants. I had that gray sweatshirt and I forget what kind of blue khakis I think we had. And I had black state boots on and state, you know, whatever, all state shit. You know, and I had like a, I think I had like a little chook, you know, the little knit hatch. So he comes down and he goes, all right, I'm going to let you go to the bathroom.

So he unlocks the red door and he unlocks the bar door. And at that point, like, I had all the ideas of how I was going to fucking escape. I just didn't know how am I going to stab this cock sucker and get the fucking keys for him. Only way I'm going to get these keys is to overpower him. There's no other way. I'm not going to talk. He's a big guy. I'm a little kid. He's older. He's a CEO. Long story short, we go up. I get into the AP room. I go into the bathroom and I'm sitting there and I'm scared.

I remember sitting there looking at the toilet. And it wasn't like the one you got in yourself up there. It was the silver one, but just the toilet one. Like, they're all having the bullpins. And I'm looking. I'm like, I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what I'm due. So I walked back from the bullpen into the AP room and he was sitting at the table and he was sitting at the ballpins. the desk kind of like you are and I walked up and I said uh officer such and such listen man um I don't know what I've done to you I'm sorry I'm I'm they're torturing me I started I broke down in tears in front of them I said I'm begging you man please what do I get to do I can't live like this no more I'll do anything anything you want please he looks at me he goes he goes they all break

after a while he goes I want information you give me information I'll get you out of that cell I said, oh, all right, so the kid that I was escaping with, I already knew what he had. So I said, such and such got a shank in his cell. And everybody's going to go, oh, my God, you snitch. Well, I told him the kid that was escaping with me. Fuck you, I'm getting out of prison. So this guy gets a heart on, oh, really? I was like, yeah, you can get him.

I'm going to lawyer to these motherfuckers, so he jumps up and shakes my hand. You need a cigarette, gives me a cigarette, because now he thinks I'm going to be his fucking pet snitch. and to flip somebody that, to flip somebody that was as crazy as I would have been to them guys. Always in Sagan, always fighting. You know, I was the guy throwing shit and spitting. And, you know, I'm the reason, you know,

like one of them guys that started the reason they had to have spit masks on, you know. So he was all excited. So he gives me, you know, I go back into the block because you got to, from the AP room like this room, we'd walk into that door and I walked out a little hallway

to walk into the max. part and it would open into the big square and there's galleys two of them and my my kid that i escape was on this side so i said to him i said hey uh can i run down and get some stuff from such and such and he was like make it quick they didn't know what cellar was going i ran down and i told my boy i said you give me some cigarettes i said five minutes i'll be back he'll be okay he gives me a couple cigarettes he goes if you're not you owe me for them cigarettes whatever i run down the tier everybody in the jail knows I'm getting ready to escape. Everybody, because, you know,

could I be escaping with, ran his mouth. And like back then there was a lot of times in them little closed environments. We would run our mouths just to people. Like, hey, I'm getting ready to break out of the jail. Anybody interested? Everybody here's either in here for, and at that time in that county jail

was the kids that had, the brothers that had robbed the armored truck in Winston. It was a real famous case in Connecticut. it back, you know, they were in there. And there was a couple different famous real big cases at the time in Connecticut that were in that jail. And they had the offer to escape with me. And they, no, they were good. So whatever. So I still don't know what I'm going to do. The ice pick is down here. So I go down the stairs. And it's, you know, a lot of it is hazy to me even to this day.

because my adrenaline was was was I'd never been you know you can't breathe you're like what am I going to do what am I going to do so I went to walk towards the cell and I said man if I go in the cell it's over with so I said can I get a cup of water he goes yeah make it quick so I bent down I grabbed a little yellow cup and I went into the little slop sink that was next to the cell and I poured the water and I was shaking and I walked back into the cell and you know as I'm walking into the cell facing it where he would shut it just as he grabbed the door he goes He was, oh, I grabbed ice pick and I turned around and I hit him. Wow. When I hit him the first time, he fell back. And then I just ran at him. He was like, what the fuck? And he came at me and he came at me. I reached and I started, you know, I was just stabbing him anywhere.

Anywhere, anywhere, anywhere. We fell to the ground. I'm punching him. I grabbed his walkie-talkie. I threw it across the floor. Man, I beat this man up as much as I could. Stabbed him. I thought I killed him.

I dragged him into the cell I got his keys off of him When I dragged him into the cell He was out cold He was done I dragged him into the cell I locked it I got his keys

Because I knew the keys I watched And then he had a ring of keys On the bottom Had all the master lock keys That lock unlock all the cages upstairs So when I got him secured in his cell He's the only cop now

And this whole half of Because nobody's supposed to be out Everything is deadlocked My cell's the only cell That can come out Because it's a dry cell And it's a seg cell, and they're supposed to call for backup, especially for me. But they all think they're so tough.

And I'm just a little kid. I'm stupid. What am I going to do? So I dragged them into the cell, and I smashed this fucking head in the bars. And I ran up the stairs. When I went up the stairs, I had the ice pick still in my hand. You know, I make this sound like it's romantic. But, dude, I assure you, this was the most stumbling, bumbling event ever.

I stabbed myself. I tripped several times. It's blood everywhere. Crime scene, they didn't even have to worry about it. I left trails to everything I did. So I'm looking for the keys. I find the keys. There's tons of keys, and I got them old skeleton keys,

you know, the old brass ones. So I get the master lock, I unlock it, open it, pull the fucking latch and all the cells open all the way down. And people's heads start sticking out. I'm standing at the end of the tier, holding an ice pick wrapped in a bloody sock. with the keys in the other hand, I had crazy hair at that point. I had always had like, I had long hair, but it was long on the top.

But I'd been in that cell for so long. I probably looked like doo-do man. You know what I didn't know. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home.

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are all shutting their fucking doors. Pah, pow, wow, pow, wow. Ain't none of them want to escape. We run into the AP room. And when I run into the AP room, I'm fumbling again, trying to find keys. Now, you need nervousness. Now, as we run into the AP room,

there's a door, red door, and it's got a two-way key. They unlock it on one side. They unlock it on this side. You could see in. So I ran into the AP room, and I'm looking for the key. I'm looking to find the key to unlock the thing,

so I've got to get the bolt. because they've got to cut them gates in order to get out that door. Once I get out that door, I'm good. So I hear all them bitch-ass dudes in themselves screaming, escape, escape, escape, escape. All the guys that were in themselves. And I always wondered this, because there was guys on the bottom tier that got out that I didn't let out,

that I got blamed for letting out, that saved the CO's life. So somehow or another, I left some of the keys there. They gave me 20 years for stealing the COs keys. Robbery first. Anyways. So, uh, uh, uh, I hear him screaming. And I told him, I said, go back in there. See what the fuck is going on.

So when he ran in there, I got the bolt cutters. And I unlocked the AP room. And he's not there. And I'm like, Chris, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on. Come on, come on. Come on, come on. And, uh, I walked out into the hallway and I see the captain or a lieutenant. window and he's looking at me and I'm looking at him and I don't think it registered at first and then he

he went and he ran upstairs going to get the rest of the CEOs they're coming so I said Chris we got to go now and uh I ran into the I ran into the AP room we ran into the little bullpen area I took the bolt cutters and I cut an axe boom boom boom boom boom boom boom we kicked it we went through smashed the camera because they had them old cameras back then that would be in the corner I smashed the camera. I cut the other fence and there was a red door, just a regular door

with a pane of window, all different. And I knew I could break it because I'd been in and out of that door so many times. And my father, I told you, I welded and I grew up doing all that stuff. So I looked at the welds and knew they were crappy welds

and I was like, you know, I can break that window. And I had these big huge, you know, the old bowl cutters that they have for the prisons. And I smashed this window there was a cop on the other side of the window that came running

to like stop me from coming. and through. I was scared to death, dude. I hit that window. I hit that window. And it broke on the third one, the whole window. I don't know how, but the whole window just flipped out, hit the ground. And it was probably the most athletic I ever was to that point in my life. But I jumped through the window, rolled and came up, and that cop hauled ass, because I was going to, I would have hit him so hard them fucking bull car. There was nobody that was stopping. I could hear the cop cars coming. Chris came through that window. And we ran through the front of the car. And we ran to the front of this jail went all the way.

As we were running through the front of the jail, we saw all the COs like this in the window watching us. They didn't want to come down. They didn't want to come out. They didn't know if they had one dead in the basement. So we took off in the woods, freezing cold. And you can look it up. It was the coldest winter to that point in fucking Connecticut when we escaped.

We had all state clothes on. And I was talking to my sister, and I was like, I don't even know how I ended up in New York from this. like the direction that I took off and I shouldn't have ended up where I did we take off and I can hear the cops I can hear them they're everywhere

and we're running and we're running and my knowledge is just jumping in car hopping and jumping in cars and knowing how to grab fucking coats and jackets or whatever to survive we got some stuff we're running we were running across one field big huge cornfield that had been chopped down and again it's it's marked

so the moon is really really bright and it's cold so it's clear. And we're running across the field and the cop is coming. I can hear the four barrel kick in. I grabbed Chris and we dove and that car, cop car came up in that field and scanned that light. We got lucky again. Again, we took off.

I'm telling you, it was like everything I did couldn't go wrong with that, getting away from them cops. So we take off and it was so fucking cold. We come up on these houses. Now the kid that's with me, I look at it and I haven't talked to him since 92, maybe 94. I might have seen him. Not because I don't like the kid, but we were never best friends and, you know, you move on in life.

You know what I mean? Like, you evolve. Some people choose to do whatever you. So, and I never really liked him back then. Like, we and him had never, nothing in common. He called himself Devilman and he thought he was fucking whatever. And he was just as much of a pussy as I was. was. In fact,

he didn't know what the fuck to do. Like, you know, so it's not like I knew. I just, I had survived out on my own enough to know, well, we got to stay warm, so let's find a place to stay warm. And we, they were building this house. It had a furnace in the basement. It wasn't completely

done. So there was nobody there, but it was still warm and everything. So we broke into it. And as I'm walking around, I happen to look up in the ceiling, and it had like a little square. It used to have the little crawl space attics. And I was like, we need to go up there because if they come, they're going to find us here. And they got dogs. They got all that stuff. Like that is a true thing. They do have, you know.

So I ended up jumping up. I'm tall. I jump up. Push the little wood aside. Crawl up in there, pull myself in. Up. I reach down. And I pull Chris up. He pulls up and not a big space. We crawl all the way to the corner. And it had the pink insulation. We get inside that pink consolation to fall asleep and I went out cold again I'll sleep anywhere when I'm tired I don't give a fuck I'm going out I'm snoring Chris wakes me up what the cops are downstairs well cops are downstairs so I can hear the comp he's in the room below us and he's like I don't know if he's talking to the owners the contractor it's the daytime I guess and he's going yeah I don't know where the hell they went they were here the dog smelled them or whatever they were here

but they're not here anymore. We think they stole the car and took off. There was a stolen car in this area last night. We think they took off. We hear all this. We're in the fucking attic. So he leaves. We stayed there all night.

Finally we come down when it's nice and dark. And again, I don't know, pink insulation is supposed to make you itch. We didn't have anything to wear. No snowsuits, nothing like that. It was so cold. So we grabbed all that pink insolition. There was tape in the basement, and I literally taped pink insulation all over my body to stay warm, and we were running. And it would get really hot.

We'd start ripping it off because that stuff will stop making you, like, overheat. But we never itched, and I couldn't understand if it was, because it was so cold or our adrenaline. But we had it on for hours running through the, we were just running through the woods. Again, we didn't have, I didn't have anywhere to go. I wanted to go to New York City and hide in the subways. That was my idea. And he didn't want to do that because he didn't want to live in the subway So I was like well fuck it I got a knot and lives up north and we can get under the Indian reservation and get into Canada

Let's do that all right So we went in through the woods then we get another you know getting tired we come up on a campground and they're like A summer home type of deal we break in we stay there for the night Wake up in the morning and I'm looking around for we need a vehicle And I see when it's an old F-150 P50 pickup truck and another reason why I tell my wife I will never own a Ford F-150 pickup truck because this is the, in this story, this is the second F-1 pickup truck that I get that has an issue because the first one with the cops when I got into the chase was an F-150 pickup truck.

So this one here, I see it. I can hear a chainsaw. It's in the back all the way in the back and chopping wood or whatever. I see smoke coming out of the house. So I'm like, oh, there's a four-sale sign in the truck. I'm like, let's go see if they got the key. So we go there, nobody there, we're knocking. Didn't have a plan, didn't even know.

Like, what am I going to do? I got no money. You can't buy the truck. No gun. I had the bolt cutters still, though. And the bolt cutters underneath your jacket or underneath a gray sweatshirt will look like a gun in the right situation if you need to. So nobody answers the door.

I take a screwdriver, I jimmie the door, break into the house. We go in, ransacked the place. I know somebody's there in the backyard because there's food on the stove. So I'm telling Chris, come on, find the truck keys, find the truck keys. Find the truck keys. So can't find the truck keys anywhere. He comes out with a shotgun. I'm like, oh, got that. Let's take that. Now we got a gun. We're good. Go outside. Again, I know cars because of my father, F-150 pickup trucks were easy to steal. You take a screwdriver, pop off the ignition, jam it in there, and you could just, you know, stick it right in there, turn the car, break the, once you get the

steering lock done, you're good. And it's a steering. He don't know how to drive a standard. I do. Getting a truck, then he finds the truck keys after I broke the truck lock. So, again, we take off. And I just took off, dude, as fast as I could. I remember going down streets.

If you asked me now which route I took, I have no fucking idea, dude. I just drove and made sure I didn't. If I knew if I saw a cop, we were going to go because that truck was definitely going to be wanted. And I was looking for another vehicle. And we kept driving and driving. And then it ran out of gas.

We put gas in it. And then, like, a couple miles up the road after we put gas in it, it just died. To this day, I don't know what happened. I pull over into the side of the road and we're scared. The cops are everywhere looking for us. There's a manhunt for us. He's a murderer. So the murderer is what made the thing, like, even bigger.

There's a manhunt for a murderer. And I'm just the guy that, you know, happens to be there because, you know, it was always about him. That's why they were so – I don't know if they would have chased me as hard as they chased me with him. They might have because they charged me with attempt capital felony murder just for the CEO in Connecticut. I never did a day of time for that, though. I ended up getting down the road when I bargained my plea bargained My lawyer got that thrown out

Because if I didn't want to trial with that I found out I would have probably beat my whole case Kid, they shut the jail down Because of human rights violations I had a judge that was going to let me out Before I escaped But because I went Because I went in and all the seals

It's part I left out Because I went into the prison I mean because I went to court It was exposed to my child molestation and all that, and all those COs went back and just spread it throughout the prison. So now I got all these inmates coming to me talking about, you got fucked by your cousin

when you were a kid. That's kind of rough for a dude who's, you know what I mean? That really, like if all that would have come out, like the truth of what was going on with me in that prison at that time, there's no question I would have walked.

Because a judge wasn't going to put me in prison because I wasn't in prison. The kidnapping was horrible. But I wasn't in prison. in prison for anything like I wasn't a terrorist and I was a fucked up kid that did dumb shit and she was going to let me go but because that happened that was what tipped me over the edge because it was so sensitive and I got every guy in prison that I'm with knowing that I was molested as a kid talking about it I got guards coming to myself talking to me about something they're not even supposed to fucking have that information like what are you doing anyway so

So you didn't even know that you were about to get released then before you escaped? Well, I would have only done, I would have only done three years. Wow. And I would have probably done it in like a, she wanted to give, the judge wanted to give me help. My case was so, like my childhood upbringing, what the school system did to me, what, what happened with, you know, with that stuff, the fact that they didn't know what to do about any of it. Like the school district fucked me right over. You know what I mean? Like, who gets rid of a kid at seventh grade and never wonders, well, where did this kid go?

No CPS and nothing back then to check. Like, the school district just decided never to have me come back. They didn't know how to teach me. They didn't want to learn. They didn't give a fuck. Years later, they come to my mother and apologize. We're sorry we did that to your son. Well, that's great, but you didn't do nothing for me.

I got nothing but life. So, so yeah, I would have gotten released. So I turned a three-year bid into a 50-year bid like that. That escape turned my bid into a 50-year bid. I now am a lifer. So I'm on the run. I get into New York. Now, if I wouldn't have committed no crimes in New York,

I wouldn't have did no time in New York. But I'm not thinking, dude. I don't even know where the fuck I'm at at that point. I just escaped from prison. I'd only been out two days. I'm 18. I've been locked up since I was 16. My brain span is probably as wide as, you know what I mean?

So truck breaks down. I see a house across the street. I go, well, there's a red fiero and a blue F-150. Oh, I got fucking 60 or 70, 70, 78, 70. I don't know. It was old. Piece of shit. It had snow in front of it.

And I told him, I said, dude, when the plan was, he was going to go to the door. I had a shotgun now. He was going to go to the door and he was going to knock and then I was going to come up behind him with the shotgun. We were going to get the keys to the Red Fierro.

Red Fierro was a fast little car and it wasn't a truck that had snow in front of it that didn't look like it had gotten driven in a long time. So, long story's short, he goes in the house,

guy snatches him up, he can't fight, he's beating this guy. up, my partner, I got the gun stuck in the door because the guy slams the door on the gun on me. I got no firing pin in the gun. So what of my damage am I going to do? So my Chris is screaming, hey, pull the gun out, pull the gun out. He'll give me the keys.

So I pull the gun out. Now we got another kidnapping charge and home invasion and all kinds of crazy shit. And he comes out the fucking door on the other side and he's got the keys to the fucking an F-150 pickup truck. I swear to God, I jumped in his fucking truck. I started it up. It started on the first try. MOTHER fucker. We pulled

out of the driveway, and I must have drove about a half a mile up the road, and his fucking thing ran out of gas, and I looked at him and said, you are a fucking retired, dude. We had to jump out of that truck and run. We ran through the woods, and I said, this time I'm going in the house.

He had a Mustang in his driveway. That's what I wanted. I think it was a Mustang. I went in and this is, and again, this is one of them situations where I did it. I feel bad about the poor guy. I was a good guy. I don't like to bother anybody.

I never wanted to bother innocent people. Unfortunately, unfortunately, when you're in that mindset of insanity, it doesn't make a fucking difference, dude. When people have fucked with you, and you've already got issues and you've just been fucked with

every single day since the day you were born I swear to God I was fucked with every day somehow or another you're just tired of no care no more when I went in that house I knocked in the door the guy let me in

and I really went in because I wanted to make sure there was no women and kids in there I never wanted to have anything to do with that because I just knew I always knew that was a bad I just didn't I had no beef with people like that

you know what I mean So I went in and it was the guy who seemed to be all right. And I asked to use the phone. And he gave me the phone and I fake called somebody about needing the ride or whatever the fuck it was. And then when I went to walk out the glass door, I opened it up and he came in with the shotgun. And the dude flipped out, jumped back.

Oh, my God. And I was like, we're not going to hurt you. Relax. We're not going to hurt you. Just relax. So we bring him into the living room. And we start talking to him. And, you know, I like to talk even back then.

so I ran down the entire history of every fucking thing I did. He just sat there and listened to me. At some point, we ended up shutting off all the lights and going up into the bedroom. We were watching the original Twilight Zone movie with Dan Aykroyd, and we got the first phone call, and it was his supposed-called girlfriend, and, no, I can't come down there, you know, so on and so forth. Then somebody came to the door,

and I didn't know that the guy was like connected to like the sheriff or he was a sheriff or he was set to do with that. So when the cop came to the door, I went down with him and I had the shotgun there. And I wasn't facing him, so I didn't know what his faces were. So I guess when the cop came to the door, he was like doing this with his eyes that we were upstairs. So, you know, he pulled back. And then the first call came in and Chris was talking to him. And I didn't like what Chris was saying. this was pussyfoot.

Oh, yeah, okay, well, you know, I want a million dollars in a jet. And again, I always tell people that the funny thing about my, in my brain, how people's brains work, I realized years later, is there was a movie that was out that, uh, the reason why I thought about, um, kidnapping or taking a house hostage was it was a movie with a guy from nine and a half weeks. there. Was it the Bruce Willis movie with a hostage?

No, no, no. With the guy from nine and a half weeks, uh, uh, what the hell is his name, dude? Uh, uh, uh, uh, he used to be a pretty boy, now he looks crazy. He was in the expendable movies with, uh, Sylvester Stallone.

It doesn't matter. I hate when I can't think. Um, he had a movie where he took a hostage. And I just remember that he asked for stuff. And in the movie, I remember, and I didn't watch it. I remember listening to,

it above it because my cell before I went to that sex cell was above like where they had to TV and I remember him asking for stuff and I remember that he didn't get it and I know that when you have a hostage you never get anything you're not going to get nothing you can be lucky if you're not killed really that's got to be the only thing you can think about it and even as back then I knew that I don't know how I knew it but I knew that so I snatched the phone from Chris and I was like what what the fuck do you want I just started blacking out on these dudes on the other end And they were like, well, calm down, Mr. Moore. What kind of guns?

You know, what are you got? And I was like, I got mad guns in here. Lots of guns. And they were like, well, what kind of guns? I was like, I got long guns. Because at that point, at that point, I had the shotgun that we came in with. And then I had the guy's guns. He had hunting rifles.

But I'm sure he had a lot more guns and just didn't want to tell me. And he probably could have killed us. And he didn't now that I think about it. Because, you know, we're kids. What the fuck did we know? Um, so they're like, oh, and I said, I, uh, I used to work for a dynamite blaster. So I had a had a dynamite. I got lots of dynamite and I actually did. I gave him the name of the guy that I worked for.

I worked for a dynamite blaster when I was like 14 years old. My father got me a job with him. Real rough guy. He used to show up in the morning drunk. He'd be like, hey, listen, if the cops ever pull us over, I keep the blasting caps under the front seat. So you're going to have to grab them and run. I hope you don't mind. Because you're supposed to keep them in a, this guy.

guy was a nightmare, so I worked for him for a whole summer, so I knew everything about dynamite. So I told them that, and they got real nervous. And I was like, if I see any cops in here, anybody comes in this fucking house, I'm blowing us all else, I'm killing us. Hung up the phone. They called back. Hung up the phone. They called back. This is all night long, from like 8 o'clock at night to like the next morning I have this guy hostage in his house and him. And they called my mother and everybody up there in the hostage van. And listening to me black out about crazy shit. I never knew they were there.

I'm just going crazy in this house and these cops. Every time they come, I'm just, I don't want to hear it. I don't know what I'm going to do. Like this whole event, even now as I describe it, I remember being in the bedroom. I remember every part that I talk about, I remember, but I know that there's other things that went on that I just can't for the fucking life of me.

Remember, I'd love to know what my partner's memory of this event is. too. So long story short, we, uh, we go through the night and they're getting more aggressive, more aggressive. One point I went downstairs and I heard them. They were in the basement. And I fucking picked up the phone. I was like, I'm blowing this fucking place up. I hear cops in the basement. I'm blowing it up. They got nervous. I heard him run out. So I went into the kitchen. We were hungry. I went into the kitchen. They talk about this in the article, one of them. Um, I go into the kitchen and wanted something to eat. And he was. He had steaks in there.

I think they were like venison steaks or something. So I go into the kitchen. This is when they first started with like them red sensors on the guns. You know, like when you go. Yeah, the lasers. Right. I fucking went into the kitchen. I swear to God, dude, there was a thousand of them in there.

I went, oh, got out of there. So all night they call. Finally they call up and they're like, well, what do you want? What do you want? I was like, well, I'm out of cigarettes. I got no cigarettes. And back then I wasn't going to go without cigarettes. So I was like, I need cigarettes and something to eat because I can't cook a steak.

because there's fucking red beans everywhere. So they go, well, what kind of cigarettes do you want? I go, I don't know. I want a carton, Winston's or Marlores. Well, we ain't got that. We can put a carton together of various cigarettes if you want. All right, fine. Me and Chris agreed in pizza.

And we would give the hostage up. But the deal was I'd give up the hostage, unharmed, and then they'd give us like an hour or soda smoke and eat our cigarettes, and then we'd come out peacefully. So I remember telling the dude like, you know, I told me to my story. This is what it is. I'm sorry it happened like this. We're going to let you go, whatever.

He was like, no, man, it was cool. He was always really cool. Even when we went to court, he came to court. He didn't have to, but he came to court. And he was like, nah, man, them guys never bothered me. They never harmed me. They, you know, they had me whatever. But he was cool about it.

He wasn't a dick. He could have been. The first guy was a dick with the F-150. He was an asshole, but he came into court cursing me out and everything. but the guy that we actually took hostage, he was, he was, he was a decent human being. I'm sure I caused him trauma. Sorry.

Anyway, so we let him go, and it's just me and Chris in there. I go up into the bedroom, and it's dark. I remember sitting down and I was smoking. And I remember asking him, like, you know, what are we going to do? I wanted to go out. If he'd have said right then and there, let's just run out of there with the guns and that. like we got something.

I would have did it. I would have did it at that moment. I know what that feeling is like when you're in that room and it's quiet. It was just me and him. And I asked him, what are we going to do? What do you want to do, bro? You want to go out?

We always talked about going out and a place of glory. He looked at me and he goes, no. He said, I'd rather go in and try it again. At least if we're alive, we can try to escape again. It makes sense to me, right? So I said, all right, if that's what you want to do, it wasn't hard to convince me either way.

I was pretty numb. I was scared at that point. I was too crazy to really know how much danger I was in until I actually had to come out of that fucking house. And so long story short, we could downstairs. He had this stereo system back then. It was like one of the new ones. It'd just come out with CDs. And George Thurgood's Bad to the Bone was clear.

was one of the CDs he had. And I told Chris, I said, we're going to put this in and blast it. And I put the Bad of the Bone song in, swear to God. And I blasted that fucking stereo system. He had to speak, but you could hear it all outside.

They were playing bad to the bone when we came through the fucking window. And as I'm walking out, I got these cops coming towards me. Dude, they had guns. These things were fucking long. This is in the 90s. But it just looked like some G.I. Joe shit.

I did not know that there were that. many people surrounding that house. Like that was a huge, they had major crime squads. They had, so as we're walking out, the radio's blasting bad to the bone. My heart's in the cops going, put your hands out like you're flying. So I put my hands out this way. He's like, no, like Superman. You know, then we get down on the ground and it was, it was, if we would have made any move,

we'd have been dead. No question about it. Because they'd been out there all night. It was cold. They were mad. We were two kids. The deal that I had made to cops, though, was I said, these are the following marks and bruises that we have on our bodies.

I didn't want to get beat up anymore. I said, if I'm beat up, then that means that you guys did this to us. So they promised they wouldn't touch us. So the cops get his handcuffs, and it's like about a mile and a half long driveway. That's what going down. Bro, there's cops. everywhere. They're coming out of the woods.

They're coming out to curse that is. Piece of shit, we got you now. You're lucky. We didn't kill you. We watched you all night long. We've seen you do this. You know, and I looked at the one guy's gun, and I'm like, damn, that's a good gun. What kind of gun is it? Years later, I realized why he said it to me, because I said it first, because he got to go, what kind of gun is that? He goes, it's a long gun.

Because when they called me and asked me what kind of guns I had, I said they were long guns. So he said, it's a long gun. Mind your business. I was like, all right, no problems. They bring us in. There's cameras everywhere that brings us to the county jail. The police station. I'm in the police station fucking all day long.

I'm handcuffed to the bench. And I think this is why I don't like my escape partner anymore. So when I'm in the back room, now mind you, I could have went home. For real. I didn't have to escape from prison. I liked Chris. He was a buddy of mine, even though he was a piece of shit to me. I didn't have anything else.

I escaped to get him out because he did what he did. and we're in a police station after all this. I saved his life. I mean, he did things for me, too. I'm not making it seem like he was very valuable in it. But he's out in a police station. I can hear him. Eating, drinking, talking shit all fucking day long.

I'm handcuffed and shackled to a bench in the back. What are you fucking kidding me? So when they finally bring me out to talk to the state, they didn't, New York cops never wanted to talk to me. Not then. They waited for the Connecticut cops to come And when the Connecticut cops came, They knew me, they talked to me right away

And, you know, I never hid the story. I told them what happened. I didn't, I guess I never thought that I had to hide it. Like, I did it. They escaped. It wasn't like I was going to be able to say I didn't do it. We're here in New York.

And he told me right then and there. He said, damn, he said, John, he said, I've known you since you were a kid. He said, you were going to go home. He said, you're never going to come out again. I'll never see you for you. again ever whatever fuck off fuck your mother eat a dick so i didn't get along with any of the cops right away in new york we bring us to the county jail columbia county jail and that was a nightmare

the day we the day we get pulled in when we get arrested i get in and they bring me into the county jail they bring us into this big holding cell and um it's got a two-way mirror it's where they would bring like the drunk take type of people and they got a few cells and And they take all of our clothes off, put us in the cell, and we're butt naked in front of this two-way mirror with everybody coming in, the showers or whatever. So they come in and they tell us that, you know, I want a cigarette right away. I'm like, you know, fuck, man, I smoke. I want a cigarette. And they're like, no, you can't have a cigarette.

We're taking everything. You're going to be naked in here because you might be suicidal. And I fucking said, suicidal, what are you fucking stupid? We could have just had ourselves killed in the house. Like, why would I come to jail and kill myself? I want a fucking cigarette. I want to smoke. And they said no.

So I think I spit on them. And they came in right away. And we fought. Now, again, I always fought. I always, it didn't matter what happened, jumped or not. I fought. And they don't like that. And I was strong as an ox.

So it would take eight, nine, ten of them to restrain me. And they'd restrain me. And they're like, what the fuck? So they send a captain in his name. name is Charlie Brown. He might have to get rid of it. I don't know. He's the real person. And he came in and he goes, I've had some of the toughest criminals I've ever met in here. He said, you're nothing. He had some big guy, whatever. He goes, we'll crush you. I was like, I just want my cigarettes. Long story short, it's a constant battle. Every day we're fighting.

I get cigarettes, but they're kept outside. I'm naked the whole time. They would take us out of the cells handcuffed and shackled and walk us through the entire jail but naked. could pass everybody. Didn't matter who was there day or night. We never had a stitch of clothes on. And they would walk us all through handcuffed and shackled, lawyers, whatever. We could never have clothes on the entire time we were there. At the end of the, it was, it was bad, bad.

Beatings beyond beatings. Partly because of, you know, my bullshit, partly because they were pissed off. And we were on the news every day. And long story short, when it kind of came to an end in that area and I start getting towards my sentence and they brought us into a tear and the inmates on the other because you'd walk by blocks, you'd have the little windows they could see and they were beating on the wall screaming. We could hear me and Chris when we went in and there must have been like 50, 60 COs in there.

It was a shift change. And they just beat us, beat us. So bad that the sheriffs had to come from the jail that was connected to the county jail to break it up. And that's when I ended up getting transferred to Marcy for the criminally insane in New York. And he went to Hudson. And I ended up getting, for all of that, stuff to 12 and a half to 25 in New York. And I ended up... Choice hotels get you more of what you value. Here's a little tune to help you remember. Same drive, different day. Don't you wish you were getting away? Pack your beds and come on through.

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For a limited time, new members get two free books when they start a free trial. Go to everand.com slash listen to claim yours. That's e-v-e-r-a-n-d-com slash listen. Years later, getting 25 in Connecticut, consecutive. So you would have to go back to Connecticut to serve time? I'd have to go back to Connecticut, and Connecticut fucked me over now because I was supposed to be sentenced in Connecticut first, which would have ran my time concurrent with New York.

I would have been able to get it done, but they didn't. So I had an effective sentence of 50 years. And after the New York time, the 25, I wasn't going to get out of 12 and a half years. I was going to do, and I did 178 on the New York one. So I got sentenced to 12 and a half to 25 in New York. I copped out to it. And I went crazy in the courtroom, spit on the judge, all kinds of stoop.

Yeah, suck my dick. Fuck you. I got my chance to talk. Went crazy. Now, where are your parents? Where's your mom, your family? What happens? Living their life and trying to raise my sister, who was six when I went to jail.

I love my sister. I was nine when my sister was born, and she was just like, I love my sister. So she was a baby when I went to prison, and they were trying to raise her. And, you know, they got this kid who just went crazy one day, and he's on the news every day and got cops kicking in their door in the middle of the night because he's escaping from prison. Where they were at the time, I thought they had abandoned me now that I'm older, and I realized that they were just trying to cope.

And a lot of times they wouldn't let them get in touch with me. They'd keep my family from contacted me. I was high of the highest securities in these prisons back in that didn't have that type of... There were wild guys, but guys that just keep wanting to escape and just attack COs for no reason and other inmates. Like, I just... It didn't matter, dude.

We were in themselves so long. Lights on, guys would come in from the street. They'd have packages or whatever on them. like, hey, give them to us. We'll hold them. Give them back to you. And then they'd be like, hey, can we get it back? We're like, well, you got to give us half, weed or whatever, you know. But we were constantly monitored, two-way mirror. We fought every day in there. It was a nightmare.

So then I go and I get sentenced in New York, 12 and a half to 25, never been to a real prison before, ever. All my drama was in county jails and city jails and never. never had been to a state facility in the very first prison that I go to outside of downstate because when I went in when I got sentenced they immediately transferred me to downstate in New York that's where you're processed when you go there they shave your head shave all the pair on your body they got these old showers that are freezing cold with the you've been through the whole delouse scene and I don't know if they still do it because I ain't gone through that in a long time

but they used to delouse us and everything when we went in there and it's the big huge hub It's the reception center for New York prison system. And I ended up stabbing a guy when I was there. That's how I started my New York bid over cigarettes. We'd be in these little tanks, and they'd have like maybe seven cells or whatever, eight cells. And they'd be on top of each other. I don't know what kind of buildings you'd call them.

Weird prison cells, not like the ones I'm used to with bars. You'd walk in, there'd be a day room and then the cells would be off to the side, like little egg crates, I guess they look like. And we used to all share cigarettes or whatever. You could get packages in New York prison system from the street. You get 35 pounds of food and five cartons of cigarettes back then every month from the street. So we'd be waiting for people that were in there. We'd all get cigarettes, a half a cigarette.

I'd take a couple puffs. He'd take a couple of posts. We'd pass it, pass it. So this Muslim kid ended up getting cigarettes. And there was another Muslim kid over there with him. Big, tall, country, white Muslim kid, tall, big. Big, huge back then. And he was a sex offender, I think.

He was a white Muslim kid, and usually back then that was a big... And this Muslim kid ended up getting his package. And he smoked with us every day, every day. And he got his package, and he didn't want to give us any of his cigarettes. Fuck us. Fuck everybody that wasn't him and his Muslim brother. I waited. I waited till we all...

The doors, you could hear him. Click, click, click, click, click. So everybody went up to the wreck. And I went into his cell and took all of his cigarettes. Gave him to everybody. He came back and found out when the big white kid was like, well, he couldn't talk. So he was deaf.

And the way he yelled at me, I'm going to fuck you up. I couldn't beat him, so I made a shank. Again, I'm a hundred and sixty-five pounds, maybe, maybe 185. Um, doors click. I come out, jump on him. And when he hit me, he hit me with the first three shots. I heard stars. I heard the, the second time I said, shit, I'm going out. So I grabbed him and pushed them into the, they got like a shower thing. And I kept stab at them. They come break it up, bring me to Seg. I'm all beat up. He's bloody. Um, I play crazy. That's what gets me to go back to Mercy. So I don't have to stay in Seg. You could play crazy and go. right to Marcy. At that point, I knew the game. So I'm doing that. He presses charges against me.

And tough guy that he was. He presses charges against me. So I got an outside case now. So now I'm in New York. First fucking six months got an outside case. I'm in Segg. Going back and forth to the mental hospital. I go to Auburn. It's the very first prison that I go to. Super, like Max. Big. oldest prison in the country, Max, running, I think, at that time, and still, they look like castles. Have you ever seen in New York prisons? Yeah. Yeah, they look inside.

They look just like they look outside, big castles. And I was so scared, bro. Again, Connecticut was a mental fuck. This was, you looked out to the yard. There was 1,500 people walking around what looked like a Kmart parking lot or Target parking lot with walls. just walking around late at night. Big floodlights are in the yard. You got little courts where people hang out,

little picnic tables, everybody's got an area, I got the handball. And I'm looking through a mental health, old-fashioned bars in front of me looking, and I'm going, oh, my fucking God, dude, I'm going to die. I can't do this. There's no way. I'm by myself.

I have no family there. I have no friends there. I've never been to New York if I wasn't in a car going to see some relatives. Never been to anything. in New York. This is new. So, uh, when I'm in Auburn, I, the guy that helps me in the prison system a lot, I end up watching beat up a couple guys. He was a tough guy, big, tough white dude. He was really like my father. Um, because I spent more time with him. He was, he took me under

his wing, uh, no weird show or nothing like that. Righteous dude took me under his wing and, and, and really, he wouldn't let me hang out if I couldn't read or write. He used to make me read a right. He really, he helped me a lot. So he was this guy, and he was the toughest way dude in the state at the time. And I wanted to be him so bad. I wanted to be him. To everything I did, I used to emulate him. He fought, I'd fight.

He did this, I did that. Just because I wanted his praise, and I wanted that. And I started elevating myself. Scared at the same time, but I, what I was doing, I was doing out of just, I'm here. I got 12 and a half to 25, and I know I got to 12. I go back to court, I haven't gone and gotten sentenced in Connecticut yet. But at the time, I have the attempt capital felony murder.

I have first degree escape. I have robbery first. I have burglary, whatever. I have like enough charges that'll give me 350 years. Like when you look at my charges, what they charged me with, it was ridiculous. So I know I got this hanging over my head. I'm like, I'm never going home. This is my life.

I'm going to be a jailhouse gangster now. Like nobody knows me in New York. I've been in jail long enough. I've escaped. I've stabbed people. I've caused a statewide chaos. I'm starting to become a badass. I'm starting to believe that, like, you know, I fight cops.

I, fuck you, suck my dick. It didn't matter who you were. So I had that attitude. And then finally, 94, 95 comes, 96. My mom, my grandmother passed away. I have a quick, interesting story good I know. I'm an Attica. And I had the kid that I stabbed in Downstate,

I see in Attica. And we're in the yard. And I go... Now, I had been in SEG. I got out to this prison. He's there with me. I'm in D-Block, so... I went up to them white guys.

Didn't know anybody. A white dude had, like, a tattoo of a... Cut right here. He thought he was a tough guy because he had bit his pinky off and sent it to his girlfriend. He said when he was... You know, that's why he was missing his finger.

So, everybody thought he was a badass. So he's a white dude, and you're taught when you go to prison, you go to what looks like you, right? That's what you do. So I went up to them. I was like, I, you don't know me. I got this kid over here.

He pressed charges on me. I stabbed him. He's a Muslim. They're going to come get me. Can I get a knife? Something. Fuck you. We don't know who you are.

You could be a fucking rat. Like, I was new to the system. I knew a couple, 5% of kids that I was in Seg with. Hey, Jay, what's up? Hey, man, I explained the situation. They were like, yeah, go get that bitch-ass motherfucker. Gave me a knife, and I went and stabbed the kid.

As I was stab him, the sergeant jumped on me and I hit him in the face with my elbow and he out and then they just started they transformed on me and they warped my ass I had not had an ass whoopin from the DOC upstate yet that was my first real official upstate ass whoopin in attica and that's when they had the black glove crew they used to wear gloves that just the finger you know black workout gloves and you got to go down this long hallway that goes into Times Square and they would be And then you got to go into an elevator and you go upstairs. Long story short, they put me in these strip cells.

Well, the strip cells, because I always ended up going to MHU because that was in my record. So these strip cells are, you know, there's about 15 cells in there. And they're not a wide tier. Maybe they're about as long as this rug this way, and there's windows here that you can open old-fashioned prison windows. Then you've got the bars here. Now, in Sag and Attica back then, they used to use. PC to do the Tierman work or the Porter work. They would feed you. They would give you your mail. It would be inmates that they couldn't put, you know, they would be high profile cases.

And in Attica, it was Mark Chapman who killed John Lemon. And it was the Bensonhurst brothers, who had that famous case. Al Sharpton was involved with, I think it was like a rape case or they beat a black, or something happened and they were involved in it. So the Bensonhurst brothers were pretty cool. Two Italian kids, they'd come down every once in a while. I'd been in a cell for a while. I was in this strip cell for a year altogether. When I mean strip cell, I mean, they didn't have Ferguson's.

They didn't have mats. You were in a bare, regular prison cell. You've been in the ones with the bars? Yeah. Okay. So then you know you got your bunk, you got your little wall, and then you got your porcelain toilet and your porcelain sink. open bars, butt naked, nothing else.

These are old prisons. They're not warm either. The only spots that are warm on the floor against the back wall because the old heating pipes have that hot water that comes through so you could stay warm. So at night you'd curl up and you'd lay on the floor.

And I was in the cell for so long was because every time before the doctor would come down, the cops would come down and piss me off. And I'd get wild. So they wouldn't release me if I was all. all amped up. And because I had so much beef with the cops, I was always fighting with them.

They were always fucking with me. And like one in particular time, I'll give you one. My son loves this one. He thinks this is the greatest one ever. So they come down, I'm butt naked. I must have been in this cell for, this is towards the end.

And this is a cop that would come down, you ask for toilet paper, and he'd come down with a little square. You'd stick his finger in it and go, this and you wipe it like that. I don't wipe my nose if it gets wet. Anyways, so he comes down with the doctor.

The doctor's here. And you know how, like, the door is here? And then you'll have, like, the metal bars. It'll be, like, a little... I don't know. You know what I'm talking about. Like, you could stand here and still see the CEO here. So the doctor's here, and I'm talking to him.

And the cop is here. And I put my dick on the bars and started peeing on the cop as I'm talking to the doctor. And he's like, yeah, I heard you were doing good for the doctor. last couple days, he goes, I'm thinking about the cop, goes, what the fuck are you doing? You're fucking animal? Man, they whipped my ass for that, but it was so worth it. It was like one of my favorite experiences.

It was so mad, but then it just kept me in there longer. So this kept going on and on. Now, Mark Chapman was a fucking scumback the entire time I was there. He was an ass-kissing piece of shit. I never liked him Nobody there liked him Did whatever the COs wanted And back then in New York prison

It just even if you were a fucking PC rat You still didn't do shit for fucking cops like that So now again I bring up the fact that I was naked And I was in the cell because health-wise How healthy could I have been Not seeing doctors barely eating Cops would come by spit in my food

You know how many times I've eaten food where a cop has spitting his disgusting, nasty, chewed up tobacco in my food? And I've had to look at him and go, oh, this is fucking delicious. I kid you not, dude. I've done that time and time again because I would never let them cocksucker see me fucking cry or say no. That's all I had. They could beat me up. They could tie me up, but they couldn't shut my fucking mouth.

And they couldn't break, you know what I mean? They couldn't break me. And I didn't know why I didn't want to be broke, but I didn't want to be broke. So anyways, Mark Chapman one time comes down, middle of winter. Real nice. I'm the only one on the tier. Comes by myself. He's like, hey, Jay, how you doing today?

You've been kind of quiet. I didn't say nothing. He goes, yeah, I know you don't like me. He gave me an extra tray. So, you know, you give a guy an extra tray of food when he's starving. He's going to be your best fucking friend. I started talking to him a little bit. And it was like throughout the day he was coming down being real nice to me.

I should have known. Anyway, so he came down and he offered me a cigarette at the night. He's like, I'm going to give you a cigarette before I go. Don't say nothing, you know, I'll get in trouble. Yeah, all right, whatever. It's just a roly, dude. You roll your own cigarettes. Well, cocksucker brings and puts a cigarette, lights it for me.

And I swear, dude, as soon as he lights the cigarette, I take the first puff and it was like the first cigarette I had in days. And I see from the corner of my eye a big five-gallon, bucket, you know the big five gallon buckets they have in there. And the first bucket hits me, it's ice cold water, dude. Freezing fucking cold, bro. And it shocked me. It threw me back.

And I'm like, what the fuck? And he hit me with another one. Then he turns around and opens up all the windows on the tier. Now you've got to realize there's already no heat here. Them windows is, it's Attica. You've been up? It's up north. Yeah.

In the middle of winter, like February, like right around now, he opens up the windows. They lock the end of the tier and shut the doors. and lights off and leave me in there all night long. The wind's blowing in, the snow's blowing in. The floor was so cold that it was slushy. I couldn't, like, lay down anywhere in the cell. I tell the story all the time. I couldn't lay anywhere anywhere.

I had to lay just, you know, the heating pipe in the back of the cell is what dries up the, and that's where I laid. I finally got a couple hours. asleep. I was so cold. I thought I was going to die, dude. I did. I'd never been that cold in my life. It was just freezing cold pouring through the windows. Oh, snow. It was ridiculous what this cock sucker did. And not one cop came down and did a tour all night long. No counts, no nothing. I laid down on the floor. Must have been three, four in the morning, because this was like seven, six at night when he did it. This wasn't late. You know, like locked them places down

early. So he, I lay down and I fell asleep and I had a dream and the dream that I had was my grandmother. And my grandmother had come to me. And I remember I had seen my yard where I grew up. And I remember my grandmother telling me if you hold on, things will work out. And I've seen a lady and I've seen and people think I'm full of shit or whatever, but I seen kids and I couldn't see their face. I didn't know who they were. And I woke up. When I woke up, I heard the cop at the end. What the fuck is going on down here more?

What are you fucking crazy? What did you do? So he comes down to fucking tear. And as soon as he came in front of my cell, I just bust out. Hysterical crying. Snock coming out of my fucking nose. Begging, please.

I've had enough, and they called in everybody. He never got, nobody got in trouble for it, but he tried to kill me for the CEOs, Mark Chapman. That's God's honest. Everybody I tell him, like, yeah, that cocksucker tried to kill me in Attica for the cops. They transferred me right out of there, put me in Comstock.

It was in Comstock for a few years, and I went back to Connecticut. I ended up getting 25 years. They ended up throwing out the cop thing because, you know, when you make a plea bargain, I could have gotten 300-something years. So my lawyer got it down, two, I ended up getting like a hundred and something all running concurrent, 25, 25, 20,

get 20 for stealing the COs keys robbery first. I got five years for stealing a sandwich. I got, I got another 20 years for stupid. It was all stupid, like, but it was all robberies. Like, I stole the keys. That's a forced armed robbery right there. The attempt capital felony murder. All right.

So he retired. full pension. He wasn't that hurt. I didn't hurt him that bad. I scared him more than anything. I mean, I'd like to claim that I bloodyed this dude to death. But if I would have, I would have never gotten out of prison. I fucked him up.

And he probably suffers now with PTSD. But I never did a day of time for him because I plea bargained out of it. My lawyer was smart enough to get rid of that. And that helped me years later when it came to parole. That was the one thing my lawyer did for me. She didn't do anything else, but get me time. But she got that fucking attempted capital felon and murder on that fucking, because years later, they told me, if you would have went to trial, you'd have walked.

I had them. They were abusing me. They closed the jail down after I escaped. So I took a 25-year running consecutive to New York, which gave me a total effect of like 50 years. And so midway through me going through New York learning it, I was in and out of Sague, constantly fighting. I got a big scar on my face.

I got several stab wounds. I've, uh, I had, uh, I had over 150 fist fights tickets. I had, uh, seven assaults on, uh, on staff in New York. And I had three riots. And then I had, you know, numerous, not count, that's not counting my Connecticut. That's what I had before I met my wife. Um, I get to Auburn. They got all these programs.

I started calming down. the more I got in. Now, I'm in now probably about 10, 11 years. When I met my wife, I was in 12 years. And I have some Native American in me. I'm not over the top here, but I had enough to be recognized at that point to get into the Native American ceremonies in prison.

And my wife was an outside guest. She was a young lady. She was in college. And I would go to the ceremonies, and, you know, I liked her. We talked. We started writing. One thing led to another. She tried to play games a couple times.

Like at the, she didn't want to come see me or write to me. Like, I wrote to her, like, almost every day for a year. And then I'd see her every couple months at these Indian ceremonies. And it would be, like, 100 outside guests from the street that would come into the maximum security prisons, and we would have these day events. They'd dance with us and sing. And I would only see her there.

And she'd like, yeah, write to me, write to me. And then she'd never write back to me. I got tired of it. So, and I had a lot of other girls that I was writing to in the prison system back then. I learned from all the pimps and everything in there. I used to get, I used to be in seg so much. So I would talk to the old black dudes. That were the dudes that were the dudes that I learned in the beginning.

I read all the, all the, all the, uh, uh, uh, message to the black man and all the Malcolm X. He was my hero for years. You know what I mean? Like, I learned from pimps and players how to talk to women and write to women. So I didn't have any women before I went through. prison kid. I was a virgin until I met my wife. That's a fact. Like I used to lie about it before, right? But then when I got my first trailer visit with my wife and I came out, I told everybody, I was like, yeah, I finally broke my virginity. And they were like, what? So you lost your virginity

in prison. I lost my virginity and my wife in prison. Yeah. She don't believe me because, okay, because I was, I was molested as a kid that makes you hypersexual. So pornography was a big part of my life. So I watched a lot of porn, so I knew what to do. And I could, I could, I I could do it. I could act my way out of anything. It's what I've been doing my whole fucking life. So when I met her, I knew how to act like I knew what I was doing.

I didn't. And she used to, you know, like to play games. So it was the last ceremony of the year. I wouldn't see her for like four months. And I couldn't get her to write to me. So I went to the ceremony. It was her birthday. And I can paint and draw and all that.

So I used to make her all kinds of artwork. I'd have to show you. I do tons of stuff. And I drew these little two Indians in a boat, and they were rowing away for her birthday. And she came in, and I was like, here, I gave me a birthday gift. And I was like, real rude door.

And I sat across the room. And I was like, look, if you don't write to me, and I don't see you after this, I'm not going to see you no more. I'm quitting the group. You'll never see me again. We're done. But if you don't, we're done.

I'm tired of playing. I'm tired of writing and trying to chase after you when, you know, you're ignoring me. And I get to see you every once in a while. I just didn't want it. And I guess it was the ladies that were with her, or I made her jealous or whatever. But when she left that ceremony,

three days later, I had a letter in the mail. And then ever since then, it's just, we wrote, we wrote for years, dude. We talked to each other in the visitor room. In New York, you get six and a half hour, full contact visits in a maximum security prison seven days a week. So she would come up. She was in college to become a teacher.

And when she didn't have classes or after class, she would just shoot over to the prison and spend the rest of the day with me. Now, mind you, I got into the good part of my prison bid at this moment. At that time, then I met my wife, I was on the rise of becoming a big shot in prison. I was around the dogs. I finally had made it in because I was so crazy.

You know, I was the guy that they could hand shank to and we'd go to the bathroom like a guy would come in and bring drugs and I'd stick the shake in his neck so he'd shit the drugs out in the bathroom. Like I was I was working I was working with these guys. I was building my and I met my wife and now for my girlfriend and now I'm like fuck I want to be a gangster but now I'm in love. What am I going to do it? I'm in prison and it's not like you can just stop being who you are. That's not easy to do. I got enemies now because I've been involved in gang life and drug life in the prison system. And I've built myself up.

This is 12 years after being. And this is 92. I came into the prison system in New York. This is years later. And so I started talking to her. I had fights and stuff. But the more I got to know her and the more, you know, now my parents and my mom and my dad and my sister were in and out of my life at this point.

I'm just going to go back just so I don't want anybody to think. think they weren't. They were a big part of my life in and out. But they also had their own life to live. You know what I'm saying? Like they had another kid. They couldn't just stop because of whatever. My mom did a lot for me for a lot of years here and there. She wasn't there every year because she had her own stuff. And there was a lot of years that I was on my own because I wouldn't contact or they wouldn't contact or the prison couldn't contact. But they were a big part of, and I want that to be known. They weren't, you know. But there were, I didn't have. I didn't have. have anybody else. And I'm sure you know being locked up, mom and dad are great, sister are great,

but nothing's better than having your lady or whatever, you know. It's a positive and a negative. So I started to like calm down a little bit. I had to start backing out of my prison gangster pretend life that I was. I had to try to, like, what am I going to do? I want to marry this girl? I want to get trailer visits, I mean, shit. Who does it, right? We'd go to the visit, and we'd neck. We were always getting in trouble because we couldn't keep our hands off of each other. We were behind the glass a couple times because we got caught fooling around in the visitor

room. So finally, I asked you to marry me the first time, and she was going to marry me, and she's a mama's girl and a daddy's girl. Her parents, the only thing that my wife has ever done against what her parents have told her, is marry me. And, man, her mom and her dad are great. Her dad passed away a little while ago. But he was a great man, and her mom's great.

But, yeah, so we were going to get married, and then she said, no, she didn't want to do it. And I got mad. And I was like, well, you'll have to ask me next time, because I'm not going to. And then we went through a ceremony, and my mom and my dad and my sister came up, and my wife finally saw that I had.

because she hadn't met my family up to that point. We'd been together for a few years. And you got to remember, they live, you know, to go see somebody in a New York prison, you got to drive eight, nine, 12, 100, you know, hours. It's a long distance. My parents lived in Connecticut. They lived in New Hampshire.

They lived in Vermont. They lived in South Carolina. It wasn't like, that's a long distance. So they came to a ceremony. And I don't know what it was, but it sparked her. It did in there, and she said, we're going to get married. We got married. and we got married and then they wouldn't give us trailer visits because of my record.

At the time I had a counselor who, a mental health counselor, they wanted to talk to me and I never would. And I ended up going in there and telling him what was going on and he ended up going to the, I needed to get A.R.T and RAC, which are drug programs. You know, you have to take like a violence program. So to get a trailer visit, it's not just, hey, I get married. and I get to go, fuck, you got to jump through major hoots. You got to be ticket-free. They drug test you.

You can't have no problems. A ticket will end your trailer visits, and then you'll have to get back in, and it's forever. And let's be serious. When you're in prison and you can get pussy, or you can go out there and just have a decent meal with your mom and dad, because you can get them kind of trailer visits, too.

You get out of that mad house for 48 hours. What would you do? You would do anything they asked you to do for that piece. And when I had that opportunity, you know, I went for it. And I had to fight to get my trailer visit. So we were married for like two years, three years before we got our first trailer visit. And dude, it got to a point where I was horny. I wanted to fuck.

I wanted to fuck. I fuck all that. And we got to Clinton. I got kicked out of Auburn because me and her got caught fooling around in a visitor room. And then I went off and got into it with a cop over my necklace. I had my necklace with a little white buffalo was a religious thing and I got into it with the CEO

and they kicked me out of transferred me to Clinton when I went to Clinton Denemora I hated it at first. I got into a fight when I first got there so that set my trailers back another year and then when I finally got my trailers my wife was five months pregnant with my daughter and we almost didn't get trailer visits

because the guy that ran the trailer visit program comes to my cell like a week or so before I get my first trailer and he's like, hey, I got a question for you. Is your wife pregnant? I was like, no. Why would you say that?

Because I had told some people and you know, people can't shut their fucking mouths. They talk. Because I was going to my ceremonies and, you know, it was in a school building and we used to get it on in that school building. The cops didn't bother us down there. They left us to fuck alone.

And we'd go in that back school building. And I had a couple friends that would hold us down, make sure they'd let us know. And we would go in that back room, and we would basically treat it like it was our own personal sex room for like two hours. So I got my wife pregnant. And I got my wife pregnant with my daughter in Clinton's visitor room, the old visitor room. That's the one that, I was there with ODB. He was there. I knew Tupac when he went through the system.

I knew I didn't like shine. I never met, I forget what the old rapper's name was. Anyways, I knew a bunch of the, they'd be in a visit room or whatever. But yeah, so my wife was pregnant when I got my first trailer visit. And really, after that, I got my daughter. And when my wife brought my daughter into the visiting room for the first time, everybody came down to see, including the warden, because it was a, they watched me change from being a guy that they had to watch constantly,

like this guy is going to burn the world down to, well, this guy is actually becoming a good person. Like, he's going to school. I started calming down, like, it was like she took, I don't have to pretend with her. And, you know, it don't matter. She has my back. And I've never had anybody that has my back. You know, I just, she's my best friend. She really is.

She saved me. I would have been dead, kid. I'd have killed myself or I'd have, I'd have OD'd because I started doing drugs when I was in prison. I started sniffing heroin. That's when heroin was like, it was heroin and not fentanyl. And I'd get grams of the shit and sniff it. We'd have parties. Prison, I'll tell you, prison in New York was wide open.

The max is wide open. Especially with drugs. Even though it was locked down, like, I don't know what it is about us in prison, but any lockdown situation, we can still open it up like it's, there was nothing you couldn't have. You know what I mean? You wanted pussy. You could get it from a CEO.

Like, certain prisons with Sodom and Gamor, like, Alburn, that's where the money was. That's where the industry was. So everybody had money. They, money flows, cash. You know how gambling. Mafia guys are in there. New York's a big prison system. So, anyway, so, yeah, my wife really, she saved me and made me change.

And I had my daughter. I remember holding her in my hand the first time, thinking, what the fuck am I going to do? What did I do? I had a kid while I was in prison. I'm not going to be even going to raise her. What am I going to teach her? I was so protective of her. She used to never been afraid of me.

I'd yell at her and be like, because she'd come into the visit room and my wife would spend a whole summer with me. So I'd see my daughter and my son. And then I had my son. I'll get to him a second, but I had my daughter every day all day long in a visitor room from, you know, 9 o'clock or 8.30 in the morning until 3.30 in the afternoon. I'd change her. I'd feed her. We'd watch TV.

I watched Ant Life 1,000 lives. Did I? Oh, I watched Aunt Life a thousand times with her in the visiting room because they got, I don't know how the feds are or whatever, but the visiting rooms, I have TV. Yeah, we had that. And I used to hang out in the play area with the kids a lot because, you know, I had kids because I wanted to fuck around with them and play with them. I had fun. I liked my kids. And then we had my son.

My son was made. He was another, he was an oops. Oops. He was, we had a moment and my wife was like, well, come on. And, you know, she promised to do other delectable things if I didn't. Here comes Johnny. And the funny part is you don't let your kids live it down either. No, I love my kids, man.

Like, we have a, we've had a rough time. Like I would love to go on for, dude, I could talk to you about this. I could talk to people about this forever. The relationship that I have with my kids, I wish it was better sometimes because it was rough when I got out of prison. Dude, you don't do 32 years. You don't go in when you're 16 and come out when you're fucking 47 and think that you're going to have a normal life. I'm 52 right now. And I am not a normal human being.

And our relationship has been strained a lot because it's hard. I got out with two teenage kids in the middle of COVID. Never experienced what it's like to deal with a teenager when I wasn't a teenager. You know, like it was love my, my daughter and my son loved me to death and they're loyal to me. And they're not ashamed of me.

And I got to tell you, dude, I can be rough, man. I'm very outspoken. I never don't say what I feel or think. Don't really give a fuck if you like me or don't like me. I know I should probably tone that back a little bit. but sometimes, but you don't make it as far as I have and live all the different lifestyles in prison and go through the prison systems that I've gone through in the mental torment and be strong enough to sit here if you can't not care what people think of you.

I mean, I rubbed shit on my body from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet and fought the cops for months. In fact, I had a weird smell. on my skin for like six months afterwards. It smelled like really bad. And I had a rash. And now I've got all kinds of rashes all over my body, probably because when I was a kid, I used to rub my own poop on my body to fight people.

That's how bad it was. Why would you, who would wipe shit their own shit on their body? Because it makes you slippery like a pig. So you, I'm naked. You come in, you can't get me. You try to grab me. Once I get sweaty with shit on my body, you can't hold me,

down. I'm, but that's just, and then they get disgusted. Oh, you've got shit on his body. I went to some crazy shit. I got some crazy stories, but being married and being, you know, it helped me. It helped cultivate me and get me.

So that program that they had in New York, if there was a program that they could keep in prison systems, that's the program, because you can really help and change a person's life that way. Because, again, you get out of the madhouse for 48, days. All you got to do is be good. Learn how to be good. Learn how to do. Even if you're not a good person, you can learn how to be good. You can train yourself to not get in trouble. Don't tell the

CO to go, fuck his mother. Just how you doing, sir? Have a nice day. It don't take nothing for me to look at you and be like, all right, brother, have a safe night. That's what I started doing. I started, you know, reversing it on him. Just be over-polite. And then I was in a power lifting. Like, you know, we can go down that till another time, I'm sure. I've been here too long for you, I'm sure. I ended up going back to Connecticut in 2008. I went to three boards. Each board, they told me Connecticut wasn't coming to get me.

They didn't, I didn't owe any time. Connecticut told me I wasn't coming back to Connecticut. My time was done. And back then I was under the old laws where you did 32 days to a year. So you had really good 10%. You had good, good time back then. even off of my 25 years, I was only going to do about 12 and a half to maybe 16 off of the Connecticut. I knew, and I told my family back then that I was going to do 37 and a half altogether,

which is what I did, 32 in prison and the rest was on parole, 37, give or take. I got a few months back here and there because when COVID hit and Trump and all them signed all them bills, it released a lot of pressure on prison systems. and guys like me that had been in forever and were close enough to the board, they just kicked out. And I got kicked out. I wasn't even expected to go home. And they were like, hey, have a nice day.

And then I just got kicked out on the street like, okay. Because I wasn't prepared as like I thought I was to be out here. Not like this, dude. This is a wild ride. So I went back to Connecticut in 2008, and I had to do 13 years. And that's when my bid became hard, like real hard. I didn't get in much trouble, but mentally, I'm going to tell you that Connecticut, they almost destroyed my family.

I went from six and a half hour full contact visits, trailer visits every 60 days, phone calls with my wife where I could afford them. Like our phone calls were, be a half hour for like $5 in New York. I went back to Connecticut in 2008. They were $25 a call for 15 minutes. That's crazy. Right? you remember with it secure i don't know if you were in when they had the securist and uh this is back in the day before all the lawsuits and all that shit dude the phone calls were they were killing my wife

she couldn't say bring me back to connect i think now it's free in connect now it's free in connecticut right but back then it wasn't free we're talking 1200 a month phone bills just for my calls maybe more and this is back you know my wife's a single mother she's she's you know she don't so they bring me back to connecticut now my daughter is five Going to be six. My son is three. You can see in them pictures out there. That's when I went back. That's when my life ended then.

So I go to Connecticut. Connecticut has one hour. They're not real contact visits. You can't touch. You can't hold hands. You can kiss, a brief kiss. And when I mean a brief kiss, I mean a... Anything more than that?

They're taking your visits from me. They don't want you to talk, really. Like, it's so... restrictive in Connecticut, family-wise. There's a trailer visit program still in Connecticut. Well, there was when I went back. And I'm under all the old laws in Connecticut at this point. So anything that was in the prison system I'm allowed to do from back then,

good time, even the conjugal visit program. But Connecticut won't give me conjugal visits because they're saying that I wasn't married prior to my incarceration. And I didn't make any sense because I was married before I started my Connecticut bid in New York. And back then when I went to prison, could get married in prison, still get conjugal visits. But long story short, they wouldn't give them to me. So we didn't have that contact. Phone calls are astronomical. My daughter didn't know I was in prison. Not that we hid it, but it never came up until I was in Connecticut. She said, Dad, are you in prison?

And I had to tell her. You know, my poor son, who's three, I never really got to, like, at least, like with my daughter a lot of times, I think I had them first five years. Olivia used to come running into me. Daddy. And then my boy, I was robbed. I was robbed with him. And I know people will go, where you owed that time.

Yeah, I did. But I came from a prison system that they could have left me and let me do my time there where I was doing good. You know, I had gotten my GED. I got vocational. I was welding bunks.

I was doing this. I was fixing stuff. I was becoming a productive member of what I thought I was going to be in society, and they brought me back to Connecticut. And because I escaped from Connecticut, this is at the end. This is 20 years into my bid,

22 years into my bid. Kid, my wild days are over. I'm an old man at this point. You know, you're seasoned at that point. You're a veteran. I've got to start a whole new prison bid and figure out a whole new prison system that everybody in the prison system

is either working for the captain or they're getting ready to. Connecticut prison system is the worst mental prison system I've ever been in. It is the worst alliance. Inmates, they don't give a fuck about each other in there. They'll tell on each other. They'll fucking, they'll rape you.

They don't give a fuck about each other. They may claim that they do, but I'm telling you, bro, they don't. And it's a cesspool of just ignorance and regenerated anger. And it's, it's, it, everything they do is to psychologically destroy who you are and separate you from your family. 13 years, I barely had any contact with my wife and kids. An hour visit, two hours they'd give me because they were from out of state if I wasn't behind the glass, because they take your visits for anything

and put you behind the glass on the phone. Now I can't hug and kiss my daughter and son who only know me from this environment. I was allowed, I get mad because I was allowed to build a fucking family in prison, and then I never did anything wrong to lose all that. And I come back to a prison system who don't give a fuck about any of that and just don't want you to have a family. They don't, man. They don't even want you to get letters.

Where's the care, custody, and control, Annette? Where's that we're here to help you? So, the Connecticut system was just a long, drawn-out fuck. So then I'm, I got out in 2020. How much time did you serve in total? 32. 32 years. Yeah, 89 to, 89 to 2000.

I got out September 28th of, 2020. So about 32, 31, 32, give or take. I got to actually sit down and, and, because it's either 31 and a half or 31 and eight months or 32 and six, you know, like it's, it's, it's, uh, we'll let you round up. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's all there. I have all the paperwork on it. And then I was on parole until last summer, I got called up out of the blue. I was on interstate compact parole. So I made parole in Connecticut in the first shot. I went in during COVID. And I didn't know what to expect. I didn't think I was going to make it.

I went in and they asked me a bunch of questions and they brought up the assault on CO. And the guy was like, the guy's been in jail for 32 years. He's never committed murder. He's never committed a rape. The fucking kid was a kid when he did this. Let him go home. Unanimously, they were like, yeah.

Because I wasn't. I wasn't in jail for rape. Murder. I did some bad things. And I probably should have did the 25 years, 12 and a half in Connecticut and 12 and a half in New York. Connecticut, the DA in my case, the day that I got sentenced, instead of taking my case, I was supposed to go to Summers and be processed through the prison system.

And what they would have done back then is they would have started running my time when I went to New York. Even though it was a consecutive bid, I was under the old laws. And back then it was about get guys out. So my time would have been running when I was in New York, even though I was, because I would have been processed in and gotten a state number. He never did that. They transferred me back to New York the next day. So I never got processed in Connecticut.

He took my case and put it in some file and left it until I was released from New York. So I went to my three parole boards in New York and did six extra years instead of getting out, you know, at 2004, I think it was, whatever it was, by 12 and a half, to go back to start my 25 years in Connecticut. they kept hitting me saying you're not going back to Connecticut because they never filed my case. So I finally, CR, which is conditional release at 17-8, the date, they're telling me I'm going home. They make me go through every fucking program. Program release, still in a max, but you got to do all that shit to learn that you're going home. My wife, they tell my wife, my wife, hey, come pick him up on November 13th, whatever, whatever, 2008. she's getting ready to come up in the car, Connecticut drops a warrant.

You're going back to Connecticut. The DA was waiting because he didn't want me to get any special treatment. I pissed him off in that town. I pissed him off. I pissed him off when the judge was going to let me go. I pissed him off when I escaped. I pissed them off when they shut their fucking jail down because you shouldn't have had people in there.

I pissed them off when I would tell people, you know, they were torturing me in there. How are you going to put a young kid around all the predators? and think that he's not going to explode or what? What were they trying to do? So I went back in 2008 and I started my 25-year sentence. And I did, I got out in 2020, so I did, what, 13, something like that? I went to a halfway house.

When I got up to a halfway house, there was no contact with anybody. You couldn't even see, I couldn't even see my wife and kids when I got out. Halfway house, so they're terrible. Couldn't even see your wife and kids. Like, how the fuck do you get me out of prison? 32 years. Haven't seen the street since I was 16. It's not, it's different when you go in and you're 20 or 25 and you do a big bid.

But when you go in and you're an adolescent under the age of 18, 16 years old, and then to top it all off, just to throw this in, I was under the youth law that they passed. You know that youth law where they were letting all the youth out? I got fucked over because my 16-year-old case ran. concurrent with my 18-year-old case. I escaped when I was 18, and the law was for anybody that was under 18. So I couldn't even get my youth case that I had started at 16 because I escaped from prison when I was 18, so it made me an adult.

So that didn't even benefit me. I got to the halfway house, and I managed it through that. I was so scared the first time I had to go out. There was nobody there to walk with me. I had my mom on the phone. I talked to her. My wife brought down the phone. I learned how to do the phone.

I stayed in a halfway else room for 14 extra days because I didn't want to do any more COVID tests. I kept making this through that fucking COVID tests over and over and over. I took a COVID test to leave the jail. I took a COVID test to get in the car. I took a COVID and then he'd get to a halfway house. I'm like, take another COVID test. I'm like, we'll go wait in the room for 14 days.

I had a room where they got catered food in and I had a cell phone where I'd never had one of these before. Never. The only one that I ever had was I had one for a little while in Connecticut. I had a maintenance dude who he got caught. We all got caught. He let me use his phone at me once in a while. But I got this thing and went fucking nuts, dude.

Like I learned it. Porn was, of course, number one thing. I couldn't wait to download. Dude, I spent so many hours just staring at porn. I could not believe the amount. I didn't have to steal a pornography. Dude, he had books when I was a kid. I used to have to go in and steal magazines.

I could just, I was just. And I came from a prison system that had gotten rid of all porn. They got rid of all the pornography in the prison system. That was insane. Like, how do you do that? So I learned the phone, and then, you know, I got a job. The first job I got, that was a nightmare. Guy had me cutting trees.

He was abusive. I ended up, I don't like any medication. I don't take no meds. Well, no, I take stomach pills for heartburn. I use weed for everything. I smoke it. I use it for edibles. I take a lot of edibles.

Knock on wood. You know, some days are good. Some days are bad. It's been a struggle. I could go on for hours, dude. I don't know how much longer you want me to go with this because I know I've had you here forever. Like my story is on and on.

That's why you got to make your own channel, you know? I have my TikTok channel. I got, um, I got 28,000 followers out of the problem is I'm all over the place. I'd like to do the podcast thing because I'd like to do the podcast thing because I like to talk. And I do have a lot of not trying. I'm not the smartest man in the world, but I like to talk and I like to learn. I've been in a real, a lot of old religious stuff as of lately, like the old stuff, the stuff that's coming out now because AI can translate, you know, so I've been into that. I do do the politics here and there. Just because what I do is I equate everything to, everything that they

did do us in prison. I'm watching them do it to you guys out here in the world. They're doing the same thing that they did do with in prison. They're systematically taking things. They're systematically making us, you know, prime example, you go on a lockdown in a prison, the yard is open. You come back out, there's a new gate there. Always. Something's always different.

Anytime they turn something out and they turn it back on, it never comes back on the same. And that's what they're doing to us out here. And I always, that's how I get into the political, and I never got to vote before. My very first vote was the 2000 last election, the presidential vote. We couldn't vote ever as felons.

I never thought I'd be able to vote. And I was always in the politics in the prison. I was in the ILC. I used to run for, you know, whatever. But I do do that a little bit. I'd rather not because I know a lot of people get offended behind it. I don't think they should. I think it's kind of dumb.

I think we should be able to talk about how we feel about, like, stupid shit. That at the end of the day, my brother, I wake up every morning and not chained door. is a good day. You know, when you're a human being that has actually been restrained and chained to a fucking floor, where people can come in and do things to you. Ain't nothing going to bother me after that. So, but I definitely want to do my own thing.

I just don't know how to do it. I got to a certain point. I'm kind of stuck on TikTok with my stuff because I don't know where to go with it. I've had people come in and say, hey, you should do this. You should do that. You'd be good if you did this. But it's not that I don't know how to do it. Sometimes it's initiative.

Sometimes it's just I don't have anybody around me to help me. Well, now you got a new friend over here. I appreciate that. But I, you know, I definitely, I have a million ideas to do this. I personally love, I love what you do. This is, this is, I wanted to tell you before. And it's not to like, you know, big you up. But I'm impressed with any of you guys, you, J.D. Daly, them guys.

I brought that other dude up that did the clown shit because I got some clown shit And I tell you I don't want to cause any beefs Because I know these guys on TikTok With their prison beefs I'm not here to cause no beefs

But there's a couple guys I like out there Like I like I don't want to mention names So I don't want to know But I like the lucky Chucky kid sometimes He's a dick I know you were gonna fight him right You wouldn't he were gonna fight?

He was calling me out He was calling you out This is what I like about him He don't give a fuck What anybody says And he's still doing his thing. So whatever he's doing and he's not going back to jail. So whatever his life is, he's got, I did it again, he's got that niche. And I respect that. You did time behind prison.

You did, whether you did a hundred years or you did 10 days, you actually went in that cell. You know what that is. You know what it is to be, to not have your freedom, to not have any, not nothing, but your brain in your mouth and be scared. And anybody that, you know, and anybody that, you know, This says that they weren't scared when you go in at that age is full of shit. So I respect it, man. You do a lot and you help a lot of people out. I don't always comment on stuff, but I do sometimes appreciate it when I'm depressed at night

and I go through the videos and I can see people and I'll hear stories. I don't almost like all of them. Like I told you before, I think that a lot of guys, I'm authentically me. My wife asked me and other people asked me if I was nervous when to come on here. I've never done one of these. And I'm not because I don't have anything to hide, dude. I don't give a fuck what you think about me, man.

I survived 32 years in a hellhole. Try it. Would you do it again if you could sit with your younger self, your teenage self? What would you tell him? Would you tell him to avoid this? Or would you... I would help him navigate the system, but I got to be honest, which I had to do it. First of all, I wouldn't have gotten my wife and my kids.

I love that. I don't have that a dollar, dude. No money, but I have my wife and my kids. And I love that every day. So I have to live my life to get that because if I don't live my life, I don't get that. So it's always been a hard question. I think what I would do is I would go in

and I would try to tell that kid, hey, don't steal them cigarettes in that cell because you're going to get beat up. You cannot sneak thief because I did that in the beginning. You know, I would tell, I would probably, I'd do it again. I would, I think maybe, though, if I did it again, I'd do a couple things different. Like, I think there'd be, there'd definitely be at least one person that wouldn't be on the planet no more if I was going to commit a, you know,

if I would go back in time and say, okay, I'm going to go to jail, I'm going to do 32 years, I would have gotten the guy that caused me, the trauma that he caused me, because he lives a good life. I don't care anymore. I'm good. But back then, I hope I can't get in trouble for that. Is that like a... No, you're good.

I'm good on that one? I think you're good. I think you know what I'm saying, right? Yeah. But no, I'm not mad. I'm not... I am who I am because of it. You know what I'm saying?

Like, it's not like I got out. Like, I didn't get out to... I got out to my wife and my kids, which was probably... I did it again. No, you're good. It's still rolling. Which is probably, I'm probably richer than the richest man on the planet. That's how I have to, I don't always feel that way.

Fuck, I'm two payments down in my truck. When the bank is calling me like, hey, you're going to pay that other payment? I'm like, yeah. You know, I hate my life. But I love it when I get up in the morning and I drive my wife to work. And I come home and I got my pug. I love my dog. And I got two cats, Carl and goggles.

And I go into the house and right now I'm struggling with life. I'm struggling where I'm going to go. I'm struggling. You know, my whole objective in life before was to get out of prison. And I did that. I accomplished that. My objective when I was in prison at one point was to squat a thousand pounds. I did that.

You know, I don't have any objectives right now. It's hard for me to see because I'm just trying to just waking up and being able to go outside. I went through a whole year and a half. just recently where I was afraid to go outside. I just shut down. I didn't want to go outside no more. And again, I know it's all over the place, but my life, my brain is all over the place since I've been out.

I'm just, I'm focused, I know what I want to do. I just don't have, for as independent and as strong world as I am, being a product of, I was a kid until I went to prison. So I had my mom and my dad to control my life. life in a lot of ways. And then I had the state to control my life. So even if I controlled what I did to a certain degree, I've never been on my own where, oh, it's my decision whether I wake up in the morning or not. That's a tough thing to learn when you've never had to learn that. When you've never learned what a real bill is, I never learned what a real bill is. I was just into prison. I never had to pay for,

I didn't have no money, but I didn't have to worry about power beds, even if it was a naked bed with mattress, at least it was not in the rain, right? So that's been, that's been difficult. Well, John, I appreciate you coming on the show today, man. You're so good. You did such a great job. I appreciate that, bro. I appreciate you.

I do. I thank you. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you, man. I'm sure the audience is going to want to have you on again at some point. So I'll do it. And, yeah, we'll have the link to your TikTok and, you know, whatever else you got in the description.

Absolutely.