Locked In with Ian Bick - I Got Caught With a Gun — Then Became an Artist in Prison | Matthew Martinez

Episode Date: April 12, 2026

Matthew Martinez joins Locked In with Ian Bick to share his story of growing up after losing his mom at a young age, being raised by his dad, and finding an early passion for drawing and creativity that would later shape his life. Matthew had never been arrested until he was 23 years old, when a gun charge led to a 3.5-year sentence in New York State prison. In this episode, he talks about what it was like going from never being in trouble to doing real time, and how he used his talent for art to survive on the inside, turning drawing into a hustle behind bars. He also shares how that same skill gave him a second chance after release, ultimately becoming a tattoo artist and rebuilding his life. This is a real conversation about mistakes, adaptation, and turning a talent into a way out. _____________________________________________ #PrisonStories #PrisonHustle #PrisonLife #ExConvict #RealStories #ArtInPrison #LockedInPodcast #LifeAfterPrison _____________________________________________ Connect with Matthew Martinez: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paintedpeopleartstudio?igsh=MXcxcGRnZWZsaXRvYg== Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@paintedpeopleartstudio?_r=1&_t=ZP-95STf7ARNbb _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Gun Charge & Arrest (Full Story) 01:51 Growing Up in New York 03:38 Family Struggles, Loss & Upbringing 10:12 School Life & Early Passions 14:34 Using Art as Therapy 18:10 Life Changes & Becoming a Father 23:30 Arrest, Charges & The Case 33:40 Sentencing, Prison Time & Lessons Learned 38:43 Life in Prison: Politics & Survival 42:22 Hustling in Prison: Art & Making Money 49:23 Prison Tattoo Culture Explained 55:28 Turning Art Into Opportunity Behind Bars 01:02:20 Prison Jobs, Programs & Early Release 01:10:07 Solitary Confinement & Prison Challenges 01:18:14 Life After Prison & Rebuilding 01:26:13 Tattoo Career & Personal Growth 01:29:18 Fatherhood, Family & Giving Back 01:36:35 Final Lessons & Reflections _____________________________________________ To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Someone on Deepop wants what you've got. Start selling now. Deepop. Where taste recognizes taste. I got followed from the place where the incident happened. I ended up getting caught with a gun. A bill had just passed in July where there was mandatory prison time for weapons in New York City. Now, are you thinking about those consequences before you get caught? When I heard the guilty verdict, you can't look back at your family. I hear the crime.

I felt like I was at my own funeral. Matthew Martinez, I went to prison for criminal possession of a weapon. I found, refound my love for art while I was in prison, and I came home and I used it. to propel my career as a tattooer. Matthew Martinez had never been arrested until he was 23 years old when a gun charge sent him to New York State Prison for three and a half years,

where he ended up turning his talent for drawing into a hustle just to survive. I grew up in New York City, Queens to be exact. What was your upbringing like? I was originally born in the Bronx, and my mom passed away when I was seven. When she passed away, I went to live with my dad down in Bushwick, Brooklyn.

with my stepmom and dad didn't work out with them. So me and my dad separated from my stepmom and we moved over to Ridgewood Queens. I've been there ever since. So I've been there since I was about 10. So when people ask me where I grew up, I just go from where I was at, you know, most of my time. Were your parents separated since birth? Yeah. My mom was actually, she was married to somebody else, but separated. I'm the only child between my mom and dad. I have brothers from my mom's side and a brother and sister from my dad's side. So I'm the only child between them. So all my brothers and sisters are half.

How do you think your mom's death impacted you at that age? It forced me to become a man a lot faster than I probably wanted to. I was seven. She had cancer. She died of colon cancer. And I would be lying to you if I told you I'd remember her. She would be in the room with us right now. I probably wouldn't even know that that's my mom.

I lost all my photos of her. I've lost, you know, kind of any real memory I have of her. But it helped me be a man because I was raised by a man. And my dad was very big on, I'm going to teach you how to do everything so that you don't need anybody. Because that's how he grew up. My dad was a recovering addict. And he was clean when he had me. That's how him and my mom met.

They met in Narcotics Anonymous. And I was their miracle baby. You know, my dad was 44 when he had me. My mom was probably about 40, 39. So I was like a late baby. I have nieces that are, you know, older than me. So I was kind of like the miracle kid. And my dad did his best for me.

You know, he was a single father. Kind of struck out with my brother and sister. They don't even talk to him. Didn't even come to his funeral. You know, like kind of had that relationship with them. But I was his pride and joy. And it was like, I'm going to raise this kid to make up for, you know, what I missed out on my other.

two children, you know. And he told me a lot. So that impacted me where I was able to be raised to be independent. I'll use the word. I think that'll be the word I'll use independent. And how would you have described yourself back then when he started to raise you? Angry. I was very angry. Had a lot of anger issues. I was always fighting. I was disrespectful towards women, like teachers more specifically. I meant I was disrespectful to all teachers. But I just had, I don't know, I just had a vendetta. I just was very upset all the time because I felt like it was everybody's fault that my mom died. I didn't understand. You know, I'm seven years old. My whole life got uprooted. My brothers got sent to Virginia.

I hadn't seen them in years. It just went from being one tight-knit family. And at seven, you don't realize what a matriarch is. You don't realize what the glue of a family is. And my mother was that. I didn't know. I was too young to know. She was the party, you know, come to the house every weekend and keeping a family together. And once she passed away, as I grew old, I start to realize that our whole family kind of like deteriorated. Everybody went there separate ways. And yeah, that's definitely how, you know, that turned out for me. How are you in school?

I've always academically amazing, honor roll student, always, 90s and above. I was never, my dad used to go up to parents' teacher conference and just go, how's his behavior? You know, they don't want to, he doesn't want, they didn't want to see. the grades, he didn't want to see, he didn't care. He just, he knew, like, that's going to get done. Let's talk about his behavior, because I know that's what I want to talk to me about. So, like I said, honor roll every year. Love school, you know, very social. I've been social since I was a kid. I don't know if it's because I was trying to fill a void of, you know, missing a parent or whatever, but I was very social to the point where they sent me to a

bereavement at a young age, you know, because I was so upset in school, but I did so well academically. they were just trying to save me. We don't want this kid to go down the wrong path. He's a bright kid. He just needs to find how to channel his emotions. And so in school, I did pretty well. What's a brave man? So it's when you lose a parent or lose a loved one. They put you in like group therapy. So I was with other kids so that they can show me that I'm not the only one going through this. You know, at seven years old, you're kind of like, well, he has his mom. You know, he has his dad. You know, and then I met kids that didn't have their dad and kind of made me a problem. appreciate having my dad. You know, they had their mom. I didn't have my, I didn't have mine,

but they didn't have their dad. So hearing their story made me kind of like, come back to earth, like, okay, it could be worse. Do you think that helped you? I think it did. I think it helped me when it came to speaking about my emotions. I used to bottle everything in until it was too late. And then I get violent because, you know, I'd just been holding and holding and holding it. And then, you know, I was in the second grade throwing chairs at my pregnant teacher because she said I was going to call your mom. She didn't know my mom died. You know, she just, that's just the first thing you say, hey, I'm going to call your mom. And I'm like, what?

You're going to call who? And I threw a chair in my pregnancy. I'm the second grade, you know? And that's when it kind of like boiled over and then everything kind of, the repercussions started from there where they didn't want to really punish me for it. They kind of wanted to get me help because they realized like, okay, this kids really, you know, kind of going through it right now, you know. Was there ever a moment in your childhood that you really could have took a step towards a bad path? Definitely. my whole childhood. My whole childhood was constantly dodging bad moments. So the people that I

identify with as my brothers now, not by blood, but because when my mom raised me, their mom kind of stepped in as a mother figure. And, you know, we were kind of the troublemakers in the neighborhood, I guess you could say, just young New York City kids thinking we were older than what we were, no parental guidance, no parental supervision, got to walk in and out the house when we wanted. We looked older than what we were. We were 13. We looked like we were 18. You know, we've always been big.

But, you know, we always one turn away from ending up in prison for this or one turn away from ending up in prison for that. And I kind of, as crazy as it sounds after saying, I had a crazy upbringing. I was the voice of reason between my friends. So you can imagine kind of how my friends were. Like I was the one that everybody looked at like, oh, he's the safe one. You know, so that was, I was close. I was close to going down a real slippery slope. So did you end up making it through high school without any issues with the law?

I've actually, I had never been arrested before my case that I caught that actually put me in prison. Never. Never felt handcuffs, never had a running with the law. I was, you know, like I said, I was lucky enough. There was many instances where I should have been. but no I didn't have any you know run-ins with the law during school I didn't finish high school just because I didn't care to go I went to the high school of Arne Design in midtown Manhattan and that commute for a 13-year-old is like the equivalent of there was people commuting to work from my neighborhood to the city to go to work and it was like as a 13-year-old kid you can't

tell me hey that train takes you to the mall that train takes you to school I'm going to the mall you know so I didn't finish but when I did go. I was a great student. I give you a quick story. My art teacher, I was doing midterms. And I go in there. I hadn't been in class, but it's midterm. So I'm like, I'm going to show up. Whatever. I'm going to do my test. I do it. I get a 95. She stops me after class and goes, you cheated. So we're going to hold you after class. We're going to make you do it again. No problem. I'm not going to argue with you. This is art. I do this. I've been doing this as a kid. Makes me do it again in an empty room. I got a hundred the second time. She was like,

wow, had to pass me. So my only credits in high school in New York. It's New York State High School, New York City High School. I have nine credits, and it's all from gym and art. So kind of let you know how my academics were. I just didn't show up. I didn't care to show up. It was not in me. I didn't want to be.

I knew I was smart already. It was all like beneath me. I can say that now that I'm older. I felt like it was beneath me. Like, school is beneath me. Where'd that passion for art come from? Expression. I didn't know how it was to express myself.

I needed an outlet. I needed something to get me away from the thought of my mom, you know, like my brother, my older brother, who I lived with at the time, he was into art. You know, he would have his coloring books and everything. And I was the little brother that's like, you know, mom, he's touching my coloring book again. You know what I'm saying? Like, so I've always kind of looked up to them where I was like, oh, I want to do art now too. And I guess I was just gifted to the point where everything I've ever picked up, I've just naturally have figured out how to do it. I'm not going to say I was naturally good at it because

I don't think anybody's naturally good at anything. I think you're naturally good at figuring out how to do it. So I figured it out and, you know, I kind of just used it as a void, you know, to fill a void, not as a void, it's a fill a void from, you know, a place of hurt, you know. If someone asked you when you were 18 years old, what, where you would end up in five years, what would you have said back then? At 18, I definitely wouldn't have thought I was going to prison. I'll say that much. I, 1,000 percent wouldn't have thought I'd be a tattoo artist. 1,000% wouldn't think that I would have NBA client tell, you know, that I tattoo. I wouldn't think that the same video game that I play NBA 2K that my artwork would be in there. Like, you could never tell me. I had no passion for tattoos.

I have no tattoos. My friends used to go get tattoos and I would be like, all right, I'll catch you guys later. Like, I didn't want to go with them. I didn't want to watch. I thought it was boring. And, yeah, you'd have told me at 18. That's what I'll be doing. I would have told you no, I'm going to be a rapper.

I'm going to either be a rapper or I'm going to be like an executive producer or I'm going to do something in the entertainment industry that was my passion. Art was not my passion. Art was just the vehicle that was going to get me where I needed to be in order to do what I needed to do. So what happens after high school?

After high school, I had my first kid three days after my 18th birthday. So it was time to work. My dad raised me. I was not going to be an absent father. So I knew once my child was born, it's time to get a job, get to work, provide for this child. You know, you never really hadn't much growing up. Your dad just kind of did enough to provide for you, make sure you were fed.

But, yeah, I knew it was, it was time to be a man, quick. Three days after my two birthday, he handed me a child. You know, imagine that. You're like, hey, I'm going to go party, no. I got my son. And I've been in my son's life, minus the time I did since the day he was born. What were you doing for work? What did you end up getting into?

At 18, I worked at Uniclo in New York City. At the time, it was a Japanese brand still out. It's a Japanese brand. And they were only in Soho. It was their flagship American store. And they're like the Macy's of Japan. And I was lucky enough to get a job there. And I had a second job.

I was working at Rockefeller Center at a food place. So I had two jobs, so I would go into work at Uniclo from 11 to let's say 7 and then from 8 to 11. You know, I'm going to my other job. The moment I turned 18, my dad left. He packed this stuff and went to Florida. He said, you're 18. I did my job with you. Did the best I could.

I'm 66 years old now. I don't have time to chase you. Don't have the apartment is yours if you could pay it. I'll see you when I see you. And I cried. I cried on my air mattress. I had an air mattress. He took everything, had an air mattress. And I cried on that air mattress. But it made me stronger. I didn't know it at the time. I thought he didn't want me. I thought he didn't care. I thought after all these years, he kind of looked at me like, you've been doing it by yourself this whole time. I just was here because I legally had to be here. Now that I don't legally have to be here and you have your own child, it's time for you to go. And I'm not going to kick you out because I don't have the heart. I'm going to leave. And that kind of set the tone for the rest of my life, you know, independence-wise. And just started figuring out life literally day by day. I didn't, you couldn't tell me, hey, what are you going to do next?

I don't know. I couldn't hold the job. I didn't want a job. I knew that for certain. I didn't want to work. I didn't work for somebody, let's just say. I knew I had to do something in society, play my part in society. But I just knew I didn't want to work for somebody else.

I wanted to make a lot of money, and I didn't want to answer any questions. At 18, that's how you think it works. You know, you don't understand everybody has a wall, you know, unless you do something where you're completely, you know, by yourself independent, and then you realize it's hard, you know. So at 18, you couldn't have told me I'll be in the seat right now at, I'm 33 now. You know, you couldn't tell me I'll be here. I'd be like, what are you talking about? You know, so. How old were you when you caught your case?

I was 23. That's 23. So five years after 18, yeah. I caught my case at 23. I took it to trial. Obviously, I lost in trial. Am I allowed to talk about my charge? Yeah, yeah.

Give us a lead up to it. Tell us exactly what happens. We had a run-in with some other kids from the neighborhood. And we always had run-ins with kids in the neighborhood. But it was never, we were kids. And it would be a fight at a party. And then we'll meet up after the party. We'll fight again.

It's just be fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting, And every time we see just a fight. As you get older, you know, and as we can see how the climate of New York has changed, now everybody got a gun. So we, you know, kept fighting with this one kid and he kept backing out a gun. He was just scared. He didn't want to fight. So we, at the time, we weren't understanding it because we're like, yo, just fight like this.

Just how we've been doing it. He was a new kid from the neighborhood. And he was, you know, he was gang affiliated. So he carried a gun with him. And I ended up getting caught with a gun. And when I got caught with the gun, I was actually going to my car. So I got followed from the place where the incident happened. And I caught with a gun and, you know, took it to trial, hired a lawyer, spent crazy amount of money on the lawyer.

Because I'm like, I'm not going to jail. Like, I've never been arrested. I'm not going to jail. I'm not going to jail for this. It's like I didn't shoot nobody. I didn't do it. So I'm not understanding. The law, I had got caught in August.

a bill had just passed in July where there was mandatory prison time for weapons in New York City, for firearms. Before you would get like a year, they call a year bullet, Rikers Island. You do eight months, whatever, you know, a little high class misdemeanor. You do your eight months, you go home, you go about your way, it is what it is. Or you get probation. Or you do, I had just missed the mark. So it was mandatory three and a half year sentence. Minimum. That was the minimum. They just changed it. And I'm like, three and a half years, like, what happened to the eight months, you know? So I say, you know what? I'm going to fight this.

I'm going to fight it. I've never been in trouble before. Excuse me. I go to trial. I had three charges. I beat two of them and I got the worst of the charge, which is criminal possession of a firearm in your place other than your home or place of business. So that carries a sense of a minimum three and a half years. The DA wanted me to have seven years.

That's what he was pushing for. The judge was actually really, you know, lenient. He was fair. He heard my side of the story. He heard everything. And when he came to sent me to three and a half years, which was unheard of because they were trying to kind of like make an example because they had just passed his bill. So they're trying to like throw numbers at people.

I was locked up with people with the same charge seven years, five years. You know what I'm saying? I'm walking in with three and a half years. And they're like, how'd you get three and a half years? You know, and it was like my first offer was two. It was two and two. And I'm like, I'm not going to jail, guys. Like, being naive, you know, again, never being through the system, I'm like, I'm not going to jail for this.

And I had people in my corner kind of like hyping me up. And no, I got a great lawyer, you know. And I was supposed to go with six-nine's lawyer. And I didn't. Somebody referred me to him and I spoke to him and I did the whole consultation. And I ended up going with a different guy and I didn't win. And I end up meeting an inmate up there who went with him and only got six months in shock. And shock is like a boot camp for New York State.

You do six months, but it's like a hard six months. And you go home. You know, so everything happens for a reason. You know, I ended up going to prison and not doing shock because I didn't go with this lawyer when he was telling me, hey, this is what I could do for you and didn't want to hear him. I went with a guy who was lying to me telling me, hey, I can get you off. And he was a crook. He's just wanted my money, you know.

So I'm still not mad at anybody. I appreciate everybody in this whole situation because I wouldn't. compadre it's the price line negotiator how do I negotiate so many great travel deals my greatest gadget the price line app it's got hotel deals flight deals rental car deals all of those deals in a bundle deals game day deals concert trip deals no one deals more deals than price line hold your horses there's more the app let you filter hotels by neighborhood vibe star level and amenities like pools and spas and beach fronts and wait i'm not done stop cutting me Light, slide.

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at the time. Well, I was telling these are who I call my brothers now. They're still my friends, 20 plus years. We didn't create the issue. We were the type, we didn't like bullies.

The legal system doesn't care if you like bullies or not. They don't care if you are the bully. They don't care if you like bullies. They don't care if you don't like bullies. You are, in any way, shape, of form, aggressive. You are,

you're the problem. Again, this new kid comes to the block. And honestly, we were defending a kid we don't even talk to anymore. Like, here, like, we're defending a kid that we don't even speak to anymore. I went to prison over this. My brother went to prison over this. Like, a lot of families were ripped apart over a kid that we really don't even talk to anymore, you know? And would I do it again? I'm not even mad at that kid. You know what I'm saying? It's what I needed to have. in order to be here today. You know? So I still hang out with them.

We own a club now. We own a club in the same neighborhood we were terrorizing. We own a club, a four-story club, on the main avenue, right around the block from the school we all grew up in. Like, it couldn't have been written any better in a movie. You know what I'm saying? So I'll never be like, oh, you know, I shouldn't have been around those kids because I don't believe in.

I believe in circumstances. We were put in a certain circumstance and we were, we reacted the way we reacted. in every reaction, every action has a reaction, and we chose to take action and there was a reaction that turned into legal issues. And here we are today. Was that your first time around guns? No, absolutely not. Not in New York City. Not in New York City. That's my first time getting caught with a gun. But having a gun for us, at least, was normal because the climate was starting to change. Like, like I said, we were around them. We never used them because we didn't need to. It was hand-to-hand combat. And like, there's nobody in the neighborhood could say.

say, yo, we beat those guys up. Not to two down horn, but in our name, we wasn't. It was like, we're going to handle this like men because that's what we were raised by our older, you know, our OGs, our older brother. We're going to handle us like men. But if it ever gets there, we could take it, excuse me, we could take it there too. So, you know, we never had no, we didn't, something happened, go get the gun. We would never like that until you got to start kind of fighting fire with fire.

You know what I'm saying? Like, okay, these guys don't want to. with the hands no more because they heard about the reputation. Like, people are getting beat up. Their egos are getting bruised. Everybody has a gun now. Everybody's going and buying a gun on the black market. Kind of got to, you know, survival of the fittest at that point.

Do you think you would have actually used it in any situation? If I had to, absolutely. I would have. And that's where me going to prison for just having one kind of feel saved me. Because I'm very much so, especially I had a child at a young age. it was like, I'd rather have my child see me from across a table from the other side of a glass than see me at a cemetery. If it's me or you, there's no self-defense laws in New York State.

And there's a lot of things in the legal system that are terrible in New York State. There's something called justification. The chances of you getting justification in New York State are slim to none. They don't care. If you were able to flee and you didn't, you were the aggressor. If you had the chance to call the cops and you didn't, you were the aggressor. They don't care if the guy has you at gunpoint and you managed to fight the gun from him and shoot him with his own gun. No, no, no, you took the gun, situation over.

Walk away. You have the gun now. Absurd. You go a couple states down. You take that gun. You shoot him. All right, thank you. You got a bad guy off the street.

Not here in New York. You know, so if I had to, yes. I would have if I had to, and it would have took a lot for me to have to. You know, my family would have had to be in danger, and one of my brothers would have had to be in imminent danger. Not, I'm going to go spin the block. We were not like that. We didn't go spin on anybody.

We weren't jumping on the back of mopeds and shooting at people. We weren't. That wasn't our culture. We were more so always on the defense. Like, yo, listen, we're trying to raise our families. Our brothers had kids at young age. We tried to raise that life. We did that at 13.

From 13 to 18, we were walling. we all having kids in chilling now. So my brother's getting married, like, but we're still in the same ecosystem. We didn't remove ourselves. And at that time, we didn't understand that. You know, you can personally change, but if the people around you,

if your environment's not changing, it's all for nothing. You know what I'm saying? People are going to see that as weakness. We're still in the same neighborhood. People remember the things that happened to them five years ago. They didn't forget. they want retaliation five years later you know but we're not thinking like that we're like

yo good i got a job i'm chilling you know i'm trying to take my kid to school now and it's like damn we forgot about that what was your dad's reaction to your arrest surprisingly he wasn't surprised even though i never got in trouble his his only thing to me was always i better not get a call from the precinct about you because i'm not coming to get you. That was his way of scaring me. I'm not coming to get you. I'm leave you right there. I'm not. And mind you, his kids are both police officers. Don't call me. Don't call your brother. Don't call your sister. They don't know you. Handle it. That's what you want to do. He knew the life I was living. Like I say, he was 66 years old. He had no time to chase me around.

At 66, he was working 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. just to provide us. Don't call me from a piece. And I never did. You know, and I could always say that. My time that happened, I'm 23, 25 years old. You know, he's like, damn, I'm sorry to hear that. He'll pick up my phone call and shit. But he wasn't to type, send me money, send me letters, send me commissary. He wasn't. He just was like, oh, I'll speak to you when I speak to you.

And when I came home on my first furlough, it was Father's Day. And I flew him up with the money that I made in prison. And we'll get into how I got into a furlough. But I flew him up and we went to watch a baseball game. Didn't talk about prison one time. It was like it didn't exist him. And that's how I wanted it. It's my dad.

You know what I'm saying? And I never wanted to disappoint my dad Because he never disappointed me So it was like I felt the shame You know like I didn't smoke my first joint I was 18 years old Because my dad was a recovering addict

And I felt like that was a slap to his face If he caught me, I didn't drink I didn't smoke Because I was like What is my dad gonna think? You know? I didn't want to disappoint him You know so

He was very much like Serious you know I don't know if you've ever seen that Denzel clip That's been going around And it's like Am I supposed to like you. I don't have to like you. What is it saying? I'll have to like you. You know, and that was my dad. When I seen that clip, I hit home. He said, I don't got to like you. I love you. I don't got to

like you. Yeah. Cool. That's it. Got a roof over your head. Yeah. Cool. We got clothes. Cool. Sit. So, so we're worried about. You know, so. So did you feel alone then when you're going through that case, not having much family? Not really because the same people I went through the situation with were with me, 100%. Like, it wasn't a situation when my friends just sort of, like, oh, well, you handle that, you know, even though this was our beef, you know, like I said, the kid that it started with, we don't talk to, but us is a tight, we're still a tight-knit family, you know, and they helped me through the whole thing, whatever I needed. There was no question. No, and like I said, their mom raised me. So at that, at this point of our life,

they're calling me, like, I'm a brother. Nobody could tell us when our brothers. We might not be blood-related, but we're, we're raised together. We've come from the same struggle. Like, I was in their house every day. When I wasn't at my house, I was in their house, and I was in their house more than I was at my house because I didn't have no brothers and none. I was by myself, me and my dad, who was 65 years old. He wants to go to sleep. Like, I can't play the game. We're in this little basement apartment. No rooms. Like, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to chill in my friend's house. And their mom was, you know, cool about it. It was like at that point, I was the son that she never asked for, you know, but hey, he's here. And I'd rather him be here than out there because I know

what he's doing here. I don't know what he's doing out there. And I couldn't live with myself with something happening. So stay here. You know, so I didn't feel alone. I wouldn't say that. I had my girl, you know, I had my kids when I was going through this whole situation. So I had stuff to, did I feel alone, you know, going through it? Yeah. Like when I was, when I heard the guilty verdict, like I felt like an outer body experience.

I felt like I was at my own funeral because I'm sitting like this looking at the judge. You can't look back at your family. But I hear them crying. You can't look back and see them. You can't look back and say, hey, it's going to be okay. Can't. The bailiff's right there standing two of them right behind. behind me, ready to pick me up. But I hear them weeping. Men, women, weeping. I'm like,

shit. I feel like I'm on my own funeral. Watching. You know, three and a half years, nothing. In hindsight, but not on day one, it's not. Day one, it's not nothing. Day one for a kid that's never been in trouble before. You don't know what you, you just watch prison movies. He's like, oh, shit, there's going to be dudes on the gate waiting for me. Like, I'm going to fight the biggest dude, I see as soon as I walk up in there. I didn't get into one confrontation in prison. Not an argument. Nothing.

Not because I was soft. I was not soft at all. I just, I showed respect or respect. And if it got to a point of disrespect, it never got there because I would remove myself from a situation. Oh, I see how he moves already. We don't mesh. I'm going to stay away from him.

And he's going to stay away from me in hindsight. There's no reason for us to not going to go look for it. I've got none to prove to nobody in here. People I got to prove they're at home. Guess why I need to get home. But there was murderers that loved me. You know what I'm saying? That were cold-blooded, tough guys.

But, yo, Matt, Matt's official. Matt is good. Everybody said, what? Like, he don't talk to nobody crazy. He's respectful. He don't disrespect nobody. He in his own world. He just trying to get home to his family.

You know what I'm saying? Good. There was no issues over no phone, no nothing. And I was on the phone all the time. In New York State Prison, we have slot times. I was in prime slot times, you know? Yo, my girl ain't pick up. Yo, no, Matt, got it?

Yo, my girl always picked up, you know what I'm saying? So I wasn't reaching for the phone. It was times when my girl would be like, yo, babe, slow down calling me because we run out of money. These calls ain't cheap. And you know what I'm saying? So it wasn't like I'm sitting there like, yo, can I please use the phone?

Like, please, yo, yo. There was people that be by that door like, like, feeling like, like, yo, can I get some time? Can I get some? Never. You know what I'm saying? And I was such a good dude. I looked at everybody the same.

Nobody was tougher than anybody. Because I knew what people are capable of as humans. Yeah, you might not be the toughest now, but what happens if you snap one day? And you kill the toughest dude. Do you become the toughest dude? You was just the softest dude, but you snap. You don't know what's going to make somebody snap.

Might be the phone, might be a visit, might hurt some bad news. It could be anything. That was the environment we lived in. So I knew how to maneuver in that environment. Okay, this dude is not having an all day. I'm avoiding them. When he cools down a little bit, I'll try to check his temperature.

See, how you feeling today? I'm talking about you in an environment where men are all, you know, macho and everybody walking around a certain way. And you ask somebody, yo, how you feeling today? They look at you like, shit. Wait, what? You good? How are you feeling today? You got on the phone?

Oh, shit. Nah, man, like, I just saw the parole board today. Just hit me for 18 months. Growing men cry. I thought I was going home, bro. I'm a man, I'm comfortable with my sexuality. I dab them up, giving him my hug, yo, we go, what we need to do, who we need to write to.

I was that dude, right? So through that, I gave my respect. I didn't have to get my respect with my hands. If it ever came to, I knew what I had to do because I knew the politics, but I'm never going to let it get there. Right? And through that, people respected me.

People would see me from afar and be like, yeah, I don't got no problem with that dude. You know, they actually wanted to get close with me because I'll give out ideas. People want to be rappers. People want this. People want a picture of their girl drawn, but they ain't got no money.

I got you, bro. I'm not doing it. I'm drawing anyway. It's going to actually help me with my craft. Let me get a picture of her. You here. Yo, bro, I ain't got nothing to the...

Don't worry, bro. I'm not doing this for that. Yeah, bro. Send that. Make your girl happy. She mad at you right now? See if this is a chair up. That's that type of dude.

So people are like, yo, man, whatever you need, bro. I'm here. Like, no problem. I still got friends that call my phone. You big boy, how you doing? Yo, you miss, yo, gangsters. Like, you know, yo.

But you carry yourself a certain way, and I was always myself in every room. I ain't at the front, like, I was him and I'm this and I'm that. And never gang bang, never almost gang bang, never asked to gang bang, never got asked to gang bang. Never. And I'm on the blood phone at 10.30 at night on a blood phone. It was blood homies coming into the house like, yo, how some bad. Dangin? Nah?

How are he on the phone right now at 1030? Oh, nah. That's Matt, bro. Nigger come up to me, I get to know me. Yo, yeah, nah, that's Matt, bro. Like that nigga, cool as fuck. All right. You what I'm saying?

Like, it is what it is. That's how the programming is working in this house. Some houses are different. I was fortunate enough that I was in good houses, I guess you could say, that even exist in prison. Well, I think likability is a big thing in prison. I think the people that don't join the gangs have a way they can navigate. like for instance in my prison scenario, I was likable and personable. So I was able to kind of fit in with different groups. I still had issues because there's jealousy and, you know, people don't

like the white guy running around. But there is that option where if you're a likable person and you didn't snitch on anyone, you're not a sex offender, there's kind of a home for you. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I guess being Hispanic to help with that because you couldn't play the, you know, oh, who's this little white kid? I was from New York City. I'm Puerto ican. You know what I'm saying? So I'm fitting in with the whites, the blacks, the Spanish. Like, I'm not in what they would say, a car. I'm not in a specific car. I'm not just in the New York City car. I have friends that were from Albany. I have friends that were from Buffalo, friends that were from Rochester. You know what I'm saying? Just Matt was Matt. They didn't even

know where I was. Where are you from? Oh, you're from the city? Wow. Cool. You know what I'm saying. Like, I didn't get into the little status quo. I didn't fit into the prison politics because I didn't feed into them because I didn't know no better. It was kind of like when you're running, you're running with your ass on fire. Like, you kind of just running. You don't even notice what's going on. And maybe

I had people that hated me. Somebody probably getting on the podcast and be like, man, I couldn't stand at it again. I would be like, I didn't know. I don't even remember you. I remember who I remember because they were memorable. But there was probably people that didn't like the way I was moving around because I wasn't banging, because I wasn't

doing all the wild stuff and I didn't carry a scalpel on me and I did but you just didn't know I had it you know what I'm saying but again it wasn't for the world to know it wasn't for y'all yeah I was ready for it but I wasn't and I never wanted it to come there so you would never know so in your story about me I might be the villain you know but there's a hundred other stories about me being likable I'm not worried about the one dude that didn't like me I don't even know if there is. Honestly, I'm just like saying, just in case anybody didn't like me, I didn't notice. Do you think you had a fair prison sentence for being a first-time offender and with the charges you had? Yeah. I mean, on paper or morally? Both. On paper, yeah. Like, on paper,

three and a half years is, is the state law. If you have to look up Penal Code 165, criminal possession of a weapon, the sentence that holds is three and a half year minimum with five years post, which was my sentence. Morally, that was my fault. I got offered two and two. I'd have been home, off parole, and less time than I was actually in prison. You know, so it went how it went. I can't even put words to it. Like, you look back on it and you're like, I could have did this different, I could have did that different. And people love to do that, but they don't complete the sentence. You have to complete that sentence and say, oh, well, if I did this different, this wouldn't be happening to me right now. I don't know where I'd be. Maybe I'd got home early

and maybe I would have been on the same bullshit because I didn't get the full prison experience. Maybe because I just walked by, I would have thought, oh, prison is a cakewalk and did some other dumb shit and did 10, 20 years, right? Because I'm still in that environment. So I can't say morally or legally, it was what I was supposed to get. It was written in the book that that was what was supposed to happen. Now, are you thinking about those consequences before you get caught? I didn't think I was ever going to get caught. But do you ever think, oh, I'm going to get the mandatory minimums three and a half years in New York?

I'm not going to mess with a gun. I didn't even know that because that's how much I wasn't in trouble. I didn't know that. I didn't know what statues are held in laws. I didn't know what penal codes were. I didn't know anything. I just knew law and order. That's all I knew.

The show Law & Order, it's the only thing I knew when it came to law. Like, I thought I was going to be a lawyer just from watching that show so much because that was my dad's favorite show. So I didn't know that you can, you know, the judge's discretion and sentencing and how that were. I didn't know how trial worked. I didn't know you get to pick your jury. I didn't know any. I literally was going through it. I was learning.

But I'm such an adaptable person that as I'm learning it, I never let things happen to me. Right. I let them happen for me. So now I'm like, okay, cool. This is how this works. I'm sitting there with my lawyer with a notepad, just like he got a notepad. He's looking at me like, what you got a notepad for? You pay me to represent you, and I'm over here like striking people on my notepad

and drawing little pictures of them. And, oh, your aunt is a cop? Yep, you're struck, you know, because I didn't know you had 16 strikes on each side that didn't need to be explained. Like, I didn't know the process. But I wasn't going to go into that process naive. I wasn't going to go and leave my life completely in somebody else's hands. It was not happening.

What was your main defense at trial? It was a temporary and lawful possession. Meaning what? You held the gun for a second? Yeah, meaning I was going to dispense of the gun, which is a law in New York where you're allowed to possess a gun if only to dispense of it at a precinct or to a fire station or something like that. So you guys were saying you were going to go turn it?

Well, I was by myself. So that's why it kind of helped. There wasn't like a big group of people. No, I meant like you and the lawyer. Yeah. Our defense was, listen, came across it, was going to dispense it. I was a cab driver at the time. So I was getting back into my work vehicle, but I didn't know that the undercovers were

following me the whole time. So instead of stopping me before I was getting the gun, they were like, let's let them get it. Let's let them, let's let them, let's let them, let's let the mouse get the cheese before we, uh, We attack them. Well, you could be a taxicab driver that young. Well, I was 23 at the time when I caught the case. Is that normal for a taxi?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, I just was never a normal kid. Like, again, I wanted to be a rapper. I knew I couldn't play basketball anymore. Growing up as a kid, I wanted to be a basketball player, a baseball, I wanted to be an athlete or a rapper. That was my aspiration and goals. Once that kind of, that ship sailed, I was like, well,

what do rappers and athletes need? Drivers. I was driving Mercedes-Benzes at 23 years old. I had all types of like Broadway stars, you know, yeah, like, I forgot the lady's name. But she was a big Broadway. She had a whole Broadway made about her life. Gloria Stephan. I drove her best friend to the premiere of their, she loved me so much.

It was like a podcast. Me and her were talking for an hour and a half in traffic. And at the end of the thing, she said, hey, here's a ticket to the show tonight. If you can make it. And I went. You know? And so I just knew I wanted to be in that ecosystem of famous people. And so that's why I became a cab driver so young. Did you have to pay for the medallion and all that? So it was for hire. It wasn't a yellow cab. Yellow cab is the ones with the medallions. And the medallions at the time were going for like a million dollars.

But I didn't want to be a yellow cab driver because that's very bang, bang. That's like, okay, see you. I'll probably never see the same customer twice. I wanted personable relationships with people to get my foot in the door to get into these rooms that I needed to. be so. In my mind, I'm not a cab driver. Physically, I'm driving this cab. Mentally, I'm trying to figure out how me and you can connect so that you can get me out this cab, right? Once I caught my case, they took my license from me. Didn't even wait for me to be convicted, right? Which there's actually a class action. I'm actually waiting for a hefty check. This is a Bose moment. Your 10 boring blocks from home until the beat drops in Bose clarity. and the baseline transforms boring into maybe the best part of your day.

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Welcome offer of $1,500 cash back after you spend $50,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership. Terms apply. Learn more at go.mx slash graphite. From the TLC commission in New York City because they found it illegal that they took my license before I was even convicted of anything. So you catch a charge, turning your license. Whoa, you don't even know if I'm guilty or not. Couldn't they suspend it or now?

Well, it was a suspension, yeah, but that's what I mean by take. Like they suspended it during the time being. So a couple people came together and they did a class action. We actually got awarded $140 million for their illegal action, which was taking our license before. You know, they were legally, you know, allowed to. Yeah, I guess like lawyers and stuff that get charged don't lose their license until they plead guilty or are found guilty. Exactly. So, you know, that I'm actually, that's just a sidebar.

But, you know, I just knew like I'm going to do something that's going to get me in that realm that I need to be in. and physically I'm a cab driver but mentally I'm not here right now. Where do you think the entrepreneurial side of you came from? Not having nothing growing up. Like it's funny, me and one of my best, best, best friends, we talk about this whole of time. Like, yo, we really came from.

He's about to be a physician assistant. He's in PA school right now. Like, we talk on the phone for hours and we laugh because it's like, yo, can you believe? Like, probably be a PA. Like, if you had told me, this as kids growing up, I was going to be a PA. No way. I mean, we're talking about the same kid

that he wanted to be a Y receiver at 23 years old and we were training for it. Like, we were serious, you know? He wasn't in that street life. This was our friend that wasn't in that street life. He just was around kids that were in that street life. So sometimes it would blow over on him by mistake, but he wasn't in that street life. It's going to be a PA now. You know, and we came from nothing. We talk about all the time, like, yo, we really came from. No, we know each other's struggle. We were there for it. He was raised by his mom. He was raised by his mom. she barely had anything. I was raised by my dad,

barely had anything. And we connected on that. Still been my friend ever since, but 25 years now, you know? And it's like, to see my friend be a PA at 33 years old, he just turned 34.

He's almost done with clinical. Like, just saying that sounds crazy to me, you know? And yeah, like, that's, that's that's that.

Like, I don't even, that just blows my mind even just saying it out loud, you know? How do you use those entrepreneurial skills, that you had in prison?

When you get to prison, you realize people are not the sharpest tools, not all of them, not everybody. There's smart guys in prison. There's different types of smart, though. You have those guys that are really, really, really street smart. Like, there's guys that, like, damn, you should run for mayor. You got this prison politics shit down to a science.

Like, you know exactly what's about to happen right now and how to maneuver people. people would tell him he's not smart. Like education-wise, like, you're not smart. I think you're a genius. I think you are a... You just got 10 guys to go do some shit for you that's going to risk all their sentences

and they're not even going to think twice about it. You're pretty smart. Now, you can use your smarts for good, you can use it for bad. But I knew gang leaders that was like, I don't know how you could run 20 people. You're running the business right now. You're running an enterprise.

It's a legal enterprise, but you are a CEO, you don't even know it. They call you a five-star general. I call you a CEO. You're a CEO. You call the shots. Take that same mindset. Go apply that shit in business.

Instead of distributing guns and drugs, find a product that's legal to sell. Do that same thing you're doing right now with these people. Do it there. and watch how you prosper. That's what people looked at me like, oh shit, I didn't think of it that way. Yo, you cut hair really well.

What's up? Yeah, you know, I do this so I can eat. What you mean so you can eat? What? No. You do this so you can eat. You could call your family. You can send your girl money to cash the bus.

Why do you only think about eating? You selfish. Think about yourself. Oh shit. I ain't think about that. Why are you charging these people $5 for a haircut in the crib and they got to go on a visit? But they'll spend $20 on a piece of Chinita. What do you mean?

You know what I'm saying? They'll pay you two packs for a piece of Chinita but won't pay you for a haircut that's going to make them look good to go see their family? Smart enough. You know what? I'll set the tone. I don't smoke cigarettes. I got a locker full of cigarettes because I do art. People are paying me a brink.

brick per art piece, sometimes two. I started getting so good, I was doing a brick per face. People wanted five faces and one piece, five bricks. It's half a carton. So how did you get into art in prison? How does that come about? So I went to the high school art design. I've always had it in me, but I was a graffiti artist going up.

I met this guy named cello, and I don't know if cello is still around. Cello was an older dude. And I hope Cello watches your podcast. You know, if he is, shout out to you, Chello. Right? He was this older dude and he would do Suboxa. He would do Chinita. and he drew

and he was my bunk mate I was on the top bunk he was on the bottom bunk so when I first first got up I was in Bear Hill all the way up by Canada

where our radio station was Montreal Radio right it was Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber so I'm in my bunk and this dude is drawing

immaculately like I'm talking about like okay I went to art school I know art I think I'm a pretty good artist myself this dude

was eons past me. And he would just have his little glasses, the tip of his nose and just, I'm right, what the hell? So, you know, that's my, that's my, my bunk me. I'm like, yo, what's up? Put me on. Yeah, you got to buy this paper, these pencils, do this. This is how you use a grid. I learned from a book. This is what he's telling me. I learned from a book, how to draw portraits from a photograph by Lee Hammond. I never wrote it down or nothing. I get into the DMV program they ship me down to green new facility a lot closer to the city

now I'm more by Albany but like Hudson I'm making friends you know friends friends got books and stuff like that I had like an open locker policy with a couple of marries how cool we got yo my locker the lock is off

you could go in my locker whenever you want if you need son get ahead so I think I was going to get like a soup of sum and I see the book I'm like Yo bro What's you doing with this book? He's like

Oh my family bought me that I haven't even opened Do you want it? Fuck the soup Give me the book I ran back to my cue With the book Like yo this is the book

That cello was telling me about All the way in Bear Hill Into his faith Like there's no way I'm finding this exact book Right now I open that book And I taught myself

How to draw a portrait And all I'm thinking about is how to be as good as cello, but they don't know who cello is. Cello's in Bear Hill. I'm in green now. They don't know who cello is.

They just see my skills, and I'm looking at them like, oh, you think that's good? I wouldn't have had a job if cello came green. You know what I'm saying? And that's how I got into that, you know? And shout out to him, like I said, he was doing tattoos in there.

And again, I had no, I'm talking about he was doing tattoos so well. COs wanted to get tattooed by him in prison. Remember the CO came to him one time with this whole like 9-11 memorial piece he wanted on his back and he was willing to do it on his shift. When I say this guy was good, he was good,

his dude from Long Island. And I've never seen artwork like that since. And I just would always try to emulate that in my other spot, you know? And then I found people who were good at art. They were not as good as cellar was. And they were like, yo, I do tattoos in here and they weren't as good as cellar was.

He was putting portraits on people in prison with a single, needle. That's insane. I'm a tattoo artist now. I hate using single needles. You know what I'm saying? Because there's no room for error. It's like tattooing with a needle you take blood with. You have no, that that chance of getting a blowout is like right there. Like you are ripping somebody's skin if you do it the wrong way. He was putting faces on people. So, you know, I would get, I got to my new prison and people were trying to get me to tattoo and I was just like, I don't know. I don't know. And then, you know, kind of moved on from there.

Actually, when I got home is when I started. So you never risked it in prison doing that tattoo? Never. They made me a machine. How would they make the machine? How was cello using, like, needles and all that? So he would, I never forget it. So you take a state issue toothbrush.

You know, it's very, it's like a hard plastic. You take a lighter, you light it in the middle, and you bend it to like an L shape, right? When you bend it to the L shape, now you have like almost, you know, like, like a gun shape, right? You take the bristles off the back, you know. You get the rotary motor from the clippers, your beard clippers, right? So it rotates like a tattoo machine does. That's what, you know, the clippers move like this is because it's rotating. So you take that out of the beard clippers, you break a lighter, the spring from the lighter, you stretch it out, you heat it up, you make it stretch, and now it's straight. You scrape that on concrete or wherever and you get it

nice and sharp, you wrap it around the motor, and you put like a pen cap at the end of, they actually make them now. It's crazy. There's this guy that sells them. He has a whole business selling tattoo, prison grade tattoo machines, which I've never picked one up, but I think they're cool. So either you can do a battery, right, or you can do hardwired. The ones that I've seen were hardwired with like a charger, like a Walkman charger, or

like, you know, you got your charger. charger, you spliced the wires, you plug the wires into the motor, now you got a machine. And again, I never seen a machine in the town, so I didn't know what a machine was supposed to look like to me. Hey, shit, that's a tattoo machine. And then the ink, you would take chest pieces from the chessboard, from the rec room. You would burn them. And as you're burning them, you'll put a piece of cardboard on top so that the cardboard catches like the smog. Right? So once you get the smog, you scrape the smog off and you mix it with baby oil. And that's how we would get our ink, right?

Then I got put on by somebody non-toxic ink in a certain marker, which I don't want to give the markers name out, but there's a marker that has non-toxic ink that they would allow us to get. We pop those markers open and now we got colors. Now we got ink colors.

So it's people getting color tattoos. And so I'm around it. There's somebody really trying to turn me into their apprentice to do it. And I'm like, no, I'll just draw the designs for you guys. So I started that way. Just going to draw the designs. You do them.

Just show me when it's done. I want to see how cool it looks on the guy's skin. No problem. What's the average price for a tattoo in New York State Prison where you were? People were doing it for pink slips. So that means it's not like 10 bricks or, you know. And a lot of these guys that are doing it are a drug addict. So a lot of them, the people getting tattoo with the drug dealers in prison, like the Chinita,

they have strips. They call strips of Suboxone. You know, and they'll trade that. You're a dope head, right? You want to get high. I want a tattoo. I get these strips for $2, $3 in the town, and here they cost $100 per strip. I'll just give you one little strip that costs me $2, and you're going to do a whole piece

for me. You know what I'm saying? So it depends on who the artist is. I don't know what cello was charging because I never got that deep with him. I just watched from afar, but I'm sure he was charging probably about the same because, you know, he had his vices while he was in there, and I just knew all the guys he would tattoo him were the guys that had the product. So I'm like, okay, you put two and two together.

He's probably doing a tradeoff. No, but again, I minded my business. I didn't want to know how you were getting paid. I just wanted to see the work. Since you were drawing tattoos for people, what do you think was the weirdest request you've gotten? I had a CEO come to me and be like, yo, I want you to draw my tattoo, right?

She's like, I'll get you whatever you want from outside, food-wise. And I was like, I want Chipotle. Like, I'm a barita. I wrote the order down and everything. I drew the design for her. I'm like, bet. I'm about to get some Chipotle coming in. Like, I'm hype for it.

Like, I'm like, the morning I was supposed to get Chipotle, I wake up to my design back on my desk. And I'm like, what happened? She's like, yeah, I can't risk my job. I went home and spoke to my girlfriend about it. And, you know, she said I shouldn't risk my job over a tattoo design, so I'm sorry I can't do nothing. I was just like, what am I doing?

Right? She could have took it home, took a picture of, and brought it back. I don't know. That's just me being young and naive in prison, never being in prison thinking, oh, you're a guard. And not really thinking to myself, like, what are you going to do if she doesn't pay you? You know what I'm saying? And I didn't do anything.

I was like, whatever does her tattoo fucks that shit up. What was the design? Some simple as does, like some angel with wings. Like, I mean, drawing it up was like, it was a little thing. What I was drawing anyway. I was like pumping them out. Like so. Why wouldn't you just go to someone on the street?

She just liked my artwork, I guess. She just was like, I want this specific piece right here. Like, I like your art. She would always come around while I'm drawing and, like, stop in my cube and, like, watch me draw for like five minutes and we'll conversate. And, you know, you start to get envy from other inmates, you know, while she over at your cube four. I think she liked you, man.

I mean, listen, she wasn't my cup of tea. But, you know, it was, like I said, she had a girlfriend. So I could just say she was, you know, not into men, you know. But when you're in prison, I guess other men who've been down for a long time, like a woman is a woman. Like, we got a woman's CEO and she's willing to do something with you, you're going, you know. And I've got accused a few times of COs liking me from other inmates. Like, yo, the way she acts.

And I just wouldn't fall for it because I'm like, I'm not going to play those type of games. Like, I didn't play those type of games. I don't play those type of games now as a tattoo artist. I know what that line is drawn between professionalism and like not being professional. And I stay behind my line, you know. So maybe they did and I just didn't pick up on it But I didn't want to know like I didn't care to know What I'm gonna do with that information? You like me cool

The moment you don't like me my life is fucked so It's better if I don't know I don't care you know so now you brought with you today all the artwork You made in prison show with the audience you know everything you brought it's really cool it's really well done And then you also were selling well like handkerchiefs Yeah so I was doing all types of I had all types of requests. These are my actual books from prison. This is the paper that cello told me to get.

It's called Strathmore, Bristol paper, which is like a card stock almost. And these are some of my pieces right here. Yeah, you can hold that up right to that camera. Yeah, these are some of my pieces. Alan Iverson. So a lot of my pieces were drawn from magazines, because all we have is magazines.

So this is the cover of Slam. This is Alan Iverson on the Clever Slam. This is Michael Jordan from some magazine. This is a pretty famous picture. This might even have been from a card, the Six Rings card. This was DJ Khalid at, I think the Oscars or something like that. He was in a magazine somewhere. This is like a Drake picture from a magazine.

Same thing. ESPN magazines, LeBron. Then I would draw pictures that would get sent to me of like my son. And my son's in the basketball. He still plays basketball to this day. We have ambitions of him being what I never was. He's playing for the big school right now. He's bigger than me, like, so proud of him.

But this is him when he was, like, six in his basketball jersey, and I was supposed to add, like, all his favorite basketball players around him. I never got around to it because I was so busy working. And, you know, more pictures of my son in his Halloween costume. So I kept myself busy, you know, when I didn't have people. Relax and let Ralph's delivery handle your grocery shopping this week. Start with only the freshest items. Then, review your list and carefully choose each one.

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from Sephora Collection. It's full coverage with a matte finish and perfect for any look, whether you're building it up for a full glam moment or targeting correction for a more natural vibe. At only $12, it's great for affordable touchups on the go. Get this new must-have concealer at Sephora or at Sephora.com today. But I always did that to showcase my artwork. How much would these go for if someone asked you to draw that in prison? It depends. It's like as I got better, they got more expensive.

Like these were in the later stages. They all dated. So they all 2018. So this was when I was kind of like in my prime. I had just learned too. This is like, mind you, I went into prison 2017, March 2017. These are dated 2018. So that kind of showed you to turnover how quick all this happened.

It wasn't like over mad time. I had to get this all done in three and a half years, right? So yeah, something like this would be like a brick, a pack of cigarettes because I didn't smoke. So I knew that that brick, that pack of cigarettes could get, I like to eat. That was my vice. My vice in prison. I went from a cooking facility in Bear Hill to a microwave facility, microwave and a hot pot. If that, because we were always on the burn, because we were to DMV house, and we had the worst CO in the state of New York.

Like known. Everybody in state knows this is the worst CEO. They put him in our honors house. Don't make no sense, right? So I went from a cooking facility to a, you know, no refrigerator facility. We had ice boxes and, you know, I went from having a refrigerator in a freezer to having an icebox. Like, it got downgraded, but I still had my vice. I had to eat.

I was a big boy. I went into prison 250. Like, I'm like, kind of like how I'm now. And I lost a lot of weight because I went on a fitness journey. Like, a lot of came out of it. Yeah, you're not 250 anymore. No, I'm 2505. You're not 2505.

Swear to God, 255. Just check. So you're the same weight you were in prison? In prison. And if I show you pictures when I was in prison, I slimmed all the way. I came out of prison 200, lowest 50 pounds because I was eating. I was collecting my calories. If I show you my success book, I have recipes and workouts in here.

Like I had a success book in here that was a black book, like a graffiti artist black book, that I was using it for graffiti at first. And then I said, man, I need to take all this information that I'm getting in prison. I need to be able to take it out with me because I'm not going to take everybody's magazines. I'll stay with somebody's magazine for a day. fill up two pages of what I like from the magazine, give them their magazine back, take another magazine for somebody else,

fill up the pages. And now I got like one big old magazine in a black book. You want to see the book? Yeah. Do you have any like personal thoughts from that time period that you wrote down and recorded?

I used to, this was my diary. This was my... Yeah, like if you want to read like a note from a certain day in there would be interesting to hear. Yeah, absolutely. So just to give you a quick run down

like this is me designing clothes. This is the beginning of the book. I was writing down, you know, at names of manufacturers. and, you know, drawing storefronts for stores that I wanted to open up. You know what I'm saying? So I'll give you one real quick. Like, I actually have, I wrote in here like a journal and I'll give you a...

Yeah, that would be great. Like, I was all types of income statements, like, how much I need to make to, like, it was all written. I had to. I had to. I could have been an asshole and just kind of did my time and, like, been like a political... So look, August 3rd, 2017. This is a full page of writing. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but I put sitting in my queue, 48 top, I was in the top bunk,

brainstorming my path to success when I get out, thinking about all the endless opportunities that there are out there. I'm still young, just turned 25. This experience has taught me a lot about life, myself, and gratitude. I am grateful for the people in my life, especially Stephanie. That's my wife. She is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me, and I couldn't imagine my life without her. So I go into, you know, all my feelings about her and this was the type of stuff

I was doing to keep myself staying. You know what I'm saying? And then I'll get done writing and then I'll go back to my old graffiti. Like, you know, this is, this is just, if I know, I know, looking at this now that I was deep in thought, because this is how I was. Like, when I'm deep in thought, I'm just doodling and trying to figure out, you know, what's next. And like I said, it's all different pages of different things I would write down after. I mean, we're all the way. This turned into a painting when I got home. I did this painting. I actually sold it. My first ever sold painting. I felt so good about it. It says love home, but it looks like it says home. But if you change the colors of the other pieces, it says love within the home. And again, I made this in my

cube just sitting there deep into my thoughts. I came home and I sold it as a painting, you know? And like shit like that, it just made me better, I guess, you know. And I have a whole bunch of drawings and stuff in here. But this is my success. I have people ask me for this book. Like, while I was in prison, like, yo, I'll give you a brand new one. Can I have your success book? And I was not giving it up.

Like, please, like I have a brand new one just like this. You could do all the art you want in it. And I was like, no, this is too valuable. Do you have the handkerchiefs in there? Yeah, I do have the handkerchiefs in there. I want everyone to see those. I've never seen that before anyone do that in prison. Well, I actually used to make pillows in prison, too, like stuffed animals out of pillows and polo shirts.

And I didn't, I couldn't find it. I made some for my kids. My wife's like, find a pillow so you can show them. So these are my handkerchiefs. These would be like for special occasions. So it's my son's birthday. I did a birthday one. Then I think this was probably me and my girl's anniversary.

I did, she likes Minnie and Mickey Mouse a lot. So I would do a lot. This is Valentine's Day, I think. Yeah, Valentine's Day. My son was big on Avengers. Before I got locked up, I drew a whole mural of Avengers in their room. So I did this for them. And this is probably another anniversary that I probably missed that I made one of these for.

How much would these get sold for? A brick or two. Depends on how intricate the design was. And how long does that take to make? I was pumping them out like a factory. Like you would think I was a printer. But I could get two done in a day. You know, I could get two, three done.

And it depends on the design. But I was so locked in. I didn't have no program. I didn't have to get a job. I had my GED because somebody told me before I got locked up, if you don't get your GED, they're going to make you get it in there. And I said, absolutely not. I didn't think I was going to prison, but I said, just in case,

let me go get my GED. Not a single GED class, nothing, just went and took the test, scored like a 1,500 out of like 1800. Killed it. I hadn't been in school forever, right? Got my GED. Thank God I did that. Then also in New York State prison, you don't have to do a trade or anything if you could prove that you work when you were a civilian.

So I sent in my W-2s to show that I had a job, didn't have to do that. I was in college and I was in a DMV program, right? Now you ask, what is the DMV? I'm pretty sure. Everybody asks, when you call a New York State DMV, you're speaking to an inmate. Whether male or female, you're either speaking to somebody at Green Correctional Facility or you're speaking to a woman. Wow, I forgot the name of their facility. I'm so sorry.

But you're speaking to a woman. If you speak to a woman, you speak into an inmate. If you speak to an inmate also. So what they do is they hire New York State inmates. And we got paid $0.32 an hour. That was the premium. That was like amazing. Oh, wow, $0.32 cents an hour?

We were pick up the phone for the DMV. So you call. We don't have no computers. We have a book. Right? A spiral book. Big old spiral book. You know, we couldn't take no personal information.

You'd be surprised how many people would pick up that phone and go, hi, my name is Sue. My date of birth is and my social security number is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, man, man, this is not a secure line. You cannot be giving me that information, you know, and they just didn't know we were inmates, you know. So they'll be like, oh, you know, I'm trying to get my license and I need the six points of identification. In my book. I'm in my book, like, okay, you need. like, oh, and you want to register your car?

All right. I got to get, all right. And then, like, literally had us working. Do you connect them to other people? If it goes beyond us where it's like, hey, I need you to check my license. Why is it suspended right now? We had two civilians in the building with us that we'll send a call over to. But there was about 35 of us in a call center.

So even in 2018, it was still out of a book. There was no, like, online. We can't have access to online because we're inmates. I didn't know if they made an exception. No, yeah, no, there was no, none at all. There was people who were getting girlfriends off the phone. Yeah, there's got to be people that abuse this program, right? There was people getting kicked out of the program left and right.

Are they listening to all the calls? Oh, yeah, absolutely. You're being monitored the whole time. Like, that's why when they go to saying, if you let them finish their social security number, they're coming to get you at your desk to make sure you didn't write it down somewhere, to make sure you didn't take somebody's name, make sure you're not looking for their address. Like, you know, because again, people again, there would be people. who would find out, oh, there was an inmate.

So girls are calling, but hey, you know, I just wanted to call. They put their sexy voice on a youth. And there are no women in a while. You're like, shit, I'm about the bite. Like, you know, just, yo, send me a little letter, a picture or something. And they're listening. You know what I'm saying? So I never got caught up on a dump.

But I've seen some people get caught up some dumb shit. And I'm just like, bro. Like, you don't even know what that girl. Like, you don't know nothing about her. But until you stay on. And this is in another room inside the prison? This is in a whole other dorm. So they give us.

So we had dorms. Those two-sided dorms. You had the one side and the one side and the two-side. So we would go from our dorm, which was M-2, and M-2, we would go to the DMV building, which was really the school building, but it's just another dorm with two sides. What's a pay? 32 cents an hour. And I was like, and then you go up to, I forgot what the, then you got trainers.

So now you become a great phone rep. From being a great phone rep, you become a trainer. They made like $75 a week. week or every two weeks, like something like that, or 125 every two weeks. They made some money, whatever. And nothing compared to what a DMV worker makes. Trust me, they were just saving a lot of money with this prison program. But the tradeoff was, once you complete the program for two years, they knock six months off your sentence. So everybody's pushing for that six months off your sentence. College was one of them. You get your college degree, six months off your sentence.

If you complete the DMV program, six months off your. If you do the, now they have the puppy program, You do that, six months off your sentence. So all these people talking about prison and stuff like that, like, if you're not coming home early, because you don't want to, right? I only did an actual prison probably 20 months. From doing those 20 months, I went to a thing called industrial training, where they moved me to a facility, a minimum security facility at Hudson, where I was now a warehouse worker because I had an outside. clearance. So I would go from my prison. They would drive me in a charter bus, a nice one, not like a yellow cheese bus, not a prison bus. Nice seats. Charter bus. They would drive us to Manans, which is by Albany, and we'll work at Corcraft. Corcraft are the people that make

the license plates for New York State. They make the signs, all the Department of Transit signs, everything, MTA, everything comes from prison. People don't know that. All your welfare, if you're on welfare, you've got a pair of glasses. Those were made at Fish, skill. Like, you start to learn a lot of things. Again, there's people who are in prison right now that don't know that. But because I was such a, I need to know what's going on around me, I knew everything. Right? I'm going to look it up. I'm going to find out. So I found out about this program. It's called industrial training. I go work for them. After I do that for 90 days, I get furloughs. So now they let me go home for the weekend. I'm just in prison right now. I was just in prison,

prison, prison, doing hard time. And you're talking about I could go home for the weekend. See my family? They start you out with day passes. Your family. You're just in prison. You're family could come up and instead of visiting you, they could come pick you up. You know, you're going to the hotel. They don't want you to go to a hotel. They tell you, you know, you got eight hours to be out there. You know, first place we're going to the mall. That hotel that was in that, in that neighborhood, in Hudson, in that city of Hudson, they made so much money because every time new furlough come on, you know what people are going. Paying $150 for eight hours to just be with your girl, you know what I'm saying? So I did that. After doing that for a couple months, they let you go home now for the weekend.

doing that for a couple months, you graduate to work release. Now, when you're in work release, they send you down to Queensboro. You do five days outside the facility, and you got to turn yourself in for two every week. Right? You got to give them all your checks. You can't cash it. You get caught cash in a check. Send you right back upstate. I've seen people. I've seen people upscound. See people, yo, get an eight-hour pack and never come back. Like, why? Why? They give you a little bit and you take, that's your fault. I don't feel bad for people like you. You know what I'm saying, because they're giving you an opportunity to transition back into society and you taking it as, oh, they just let me out this gate.

I'm out. I can turn myself back in. I would look at those people like, yo, you're crazy. You know, you're messing it up for the next man. Because now all these enforcement, because now too many people are not coming back. So now we're going to shut this program down. And somebody like me was using this program to reconnect with his family. You know what I'm saying?

So I did that. I got into work with these. So I did all of this that you're seeing in the span of 20 months. I did one month on Rikers, and the other 19 I did between Bear Hill and Green. This sounds like a really positive prison experience program, you know. 100%. They should have this across the board. Yeah, no, 100%.

And they do. And they do. And as long as you're not a violent offender, a sex offender, right? And even if you are a violent offender on the book, they have something called the VFO, violent felony override, where it's a violent, like my crime was a violent crime because it's a weapon. But nobody got shot. So they override it. Like, okay, it's violent in nature, but in actuality, it's not violent.

Nobody got hurt. You know, if I had to hurt somebody with that gun, yeah, I'm not getting that program. You're a risk of society. But you got caught with a weapon. It's violent in nature, but, you know, we'll overlook it. You know, you can still do all the programs, you know? People just don't know, you know, that there's these programs in place, but they don't want to know. Like, man, I'm do my, I'm do my time.

What? Yeah, send me to a max, matter of fact. just because say you was at a max? Like, you know, I knew people that were at mediums are like, yo, I'd rather go back to a max. Like, what? How? It's just better.

I just like it. I got my own cell. I got, like, the things that they would ration with themselves to say a maximum is better than a minimum was just wild to me. You know? So, yeah, it was crazy. It was a positive experience in a sense where I made it a positive experience. Can it be a negative experience?

Yes. I am not shining a light on. prison at all. Do not go. Kids, don't. There's nothing cool about prison. It doesn't make you a man. It doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't. But if you need a time out and you have to go to prison because that's just what's in your card, your life's not over. There's ways to maneuver through it where you can come home a better man, right? Come home with a different sense of responsibility, a different sense of gratitude, right? Were you not the same person you were? I shed it that skin of who I was before into prison. I haven't had an encounter with the law since I've came home from prison.

I've got to stop twice and no ticket or anything. Like, oh, okay, no problem. They just want to see my ID. They run me. Oh, they see that I had a weapon in my past. They might want to search me. Hey, guess what? Go ahead. Search me. I'm not going to be, yo, you ain't got the right to search, bro. I'm sorry to break it to people out there. They got the right to do whatever the hell they want until you prove that they can't do that. I'm very, I'm not for the law. I'm not sitting here saying but I know how this works now. I've been on the other side. And what's fair and what's actually going to happen, two different things, right? I shouldn't have never went to the box. I went to solitary confinement for 30 days because an officer didn't like me. Legit, I never started problems

with nobody. We're talking about an officer that was known for beating up inmates. Like, they would get him from our dorm, the DMV dorm, grab him and take him to go beat up other inmates at other dorms and then bring him back to the dorm to finish out his. It's time. Like, you think I'm going to say something to this dude? Why? It's a battle. I know how to pick and choose my battles. I'm not going to... He didn't like me because there was an investigation going on with him and they came and interviewed me and I didn't even tell him I told the truth. Like, I wasn't like, oh, there was people lying on him. There was people saying he said this and he said that. He was like, he was like Trump before Trump. Like,

he was like the guy like, you just love to hate it. You just going to make up these off the wall. And I would be like, okay, that's not true, but that's true. You know what I'm saying? And I guess he didn't like it because my statement was probably one of the more believable ones. Because it was like, I wasn't just in there spitballing. Like, oh, he did this. He did this. He did this. It was like, no, no, he didn't do that.

But he did that. So they were looking at me like, oh, this guy's credible because he's saying he didn't do this. But he did do this. I remember like it was yesterday. I was in the TV room watching the World Cup. And the sergeant walks in and just like, yo, get up. Hands behind your back. Excuse me?

You got the wrong guy. Lo and behold, he wrote a whole report on me. You got, you got ticket. You got tears in your tickets. He wrote a tier three ticket, which is automatic box time, saying that he told me to clean my cube, and I looked at him in his face and told him, fuck you, you do it. As the sergeant's walking me to the box, she's like, what did you do to that guy?

She's like, because I know you didn't say that. Like, as long as you know I didn't say that, she's like, yeah, nobody would ever say We wouldn't say that to that guy. But whatever you did to him, he doesn't like you. I said, I tried to fight it. I did 30 days in the box for my birthday. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now.

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It was upstate New York, 103-degree weather in a box with a box with a box. another man where our radio is attached to the wall and they give you a pair of headphones and like figure it out. I'm listening to the Yankee game every night. There's no AC in there? AC. You're really in like solitary though. We just have AC. Nothing. We had a shower that only came on three times a week. We had a little bullpen that we got an hour a day wreck because that was state mandated. And when it gets hot, you open that door to try and catch some type of breeze. And my entertainment for the day was watching people fish in the courtyard. That was my entertainment for the day. They loved it.

It was it. 30 days. That 30 days for like my whole sentence. It felt like three years. Yeah, that's the hardest part. That's hard time. Yeah. I came out and out. I felt like I came home. To walk into a prison, but just like you walk out of prison, into prison and be happy to walk into prison. You're like,

shit. What? I can't wait to get back to the population. And, you know, because I was in a troublemaker and I wasn't an asshole, they put me in a decent house. I got there. It There was no, listen, every house consists of the main things. You got your old head.

That's going to tell you what it is and he played no games and this is what it is. He's usually the porter. He's usually the corner cube. Right? There's structure to these houses. There's people that go into these houses blinded, not understanding that there's already an order in here. And if you go against that order, you're not going to last here long. And why would you keep going from house to house to house to house?

Every time they pack your bag, somebody's stealing something from you. Right? Every time you pack your bags, you got to let another inmate pack your bag. The cop don't care. They already rebuilt a rapport with this cop. They've been in this house for two years. Oh, you want to take his radio? I didn't see it. I got a radio. Because this guy wanted to be an asshole. It's the reality of it. I've seen them on my own two eyes. You know, so once I've seen that, I'm always the type of person. I'm going to learn from somebody else's mistake. I'm not going to be that asshole. Every time I got nice sneakers. I got stuff in my locker. My locker is not never empty. You know what I'm saying? I got food. And every time, when I went to a new crib, all my shit, because my friends that were in there would be the ones to pack my shit. Because they knew, like, yeah, ain't nobody touching that shit, you know?

But if you're an asshole, guess what? Yeah, it's free for all. Lockers open. You get back to your stuff, your property on the next house, and you're like, wait, where's my? You're an asshole. You know? So it has its negatives.

I went into that spiel just to kind of let you, like, it's not all positive. It depends on you. You could be an asshole. You can be treated like an asshole. You know, you cannot be doing nothing and somebody still think you're an asshole. You know, it's just how it goes. You literally, you literally determine your own fate.

You know, some things are out of control. Sometimes things happen by mistake. I've seen people get cut by mistake, mistaken identity, just being around the wrong people. It happens. It's not a walk in the park. You know what I'm saying? But you stay diligent.

You stay to yourself. You do the right things. Hey, listen, you're going to survive in here. As long as you ain't do nothing crazy on them streets because people are checking. We're looking at your den number. We're calling out people and telling them to type it into the New York State Docks system to see what your charge is, especially if you're the type of person to scratch it out.

It gets serious, you know? I'm not here to say prison was a walk in the park. I've seen it on both ends. Seeing people's faces get slashed open. I've seen that stuff. But I don't glorify that. Right? Because that's not cool.

That's not what prison's for. It's to rehabilitate you as a person, to go back in a society because you, stepped out of line in society. And they want to figure out why. They want to fix it, and then they want to place you back in the society. I know people that are doing bids again. I'm not surprised.

When I was with them, I was like, yeah, I knew you had another one or two in you. I could see it. Your mentality, while you're in here, I could tell. Then I have other people that would give in life, 20 to life. They don't see the parole board to after 20 years, living their best life right now.

chilling. They told them, you still a candy bar. you going back and doing the rest of your time? And the rest of your time is life. So he went out there and he's chilling now. My boy from Rochester. Never forget him. One of those people that are memorable. I always remember. I got them on all types of social medias. Good friend of mine, you know, telling him like, yo, he had it bad. He never knew if he was going to come home or not, you know, and he used it for good. And he came home and he's doing it. So there's two different sides of it. You know, you could go this way. You could go that way. What you choose is on you. You

What did you end up choosing? How were you able to, you know, turn what you learned in prison, what you took away from prison into the life you have now? I use my network. I've always been a network, right? I've always been sociable. I've always been the go-to guy. In high school, I was popular. In high school, I was a freshman hanging out with the seniors.

Like, I was always because I didn't treat anybody indifferent from the gothic. Remember, I went to art high school. So I had got gots, gay, I had gangsters. My school was just a mesh because it was in New York City, like Manhattan. You had kids from the Bronx. You had kids from Uptown Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island. You had kids from all five boroughs jammed into this one school. Cultural mixing pot, like our principal, I'm pretty sure was gay, right?

Like, it just was very cultured like that. And it was you learn how to adapt to people and not judge anybody, right? Like, I didn't judge anybody. I had friends that, you know, I knew that were gang banging and I wasn't going to be like, I'm not going to hang out with you because you're this gang. Like, it's none of my business. Like, as long as you cool when you're with me, you cool with me. There was the dorky kids that had the big book bags that would run down the hallways,

like narrow toe, like their arms behind them. That's real. Like, I didn't go, ha, look at that kid running mad weird. Like, I would probably join in with him. I was that type of person. Like, I'm going to do it with you because my friends were laughing. And I'm like, yo, that's not funny. Like, that kid's mad, cool.

Like, you ever, you ever seen his artwork? You know, he could draw anime, like, like, if he works, and you can never get past the fact that he runs funny, so you'll never know that he's actually a really good artist. You know? But I have class with him, so I know. So now when I see him in the hallway and they think that that's funny, I'm that type of kid, like, that's not funny, bro.

He actually mad. Yo, matter of fact, yo, come over here. I'm with the popular girls. I'm with the pretty girls. I'm with the, he's mad nervous walking over. you sit with us today. You know, like, I was that kid. So I kind of translated that into prison the same way.

Like, nobody's above anybody. Nobody's, I'm cool with everybody. I don't care what, as long as like I said, as long as you didn't do no sex offending crazy shit to kids or some weird stuff, I'm cool with you. You know what I'm saying? Everybody has a history. Everybody has a pass.

I'm not, I'm not want to judge. I don't judge nobody because you probably are a product of environment. You know what I'm saying? I'm not perfect, so I can't sit here and judge anybody. So that's kind of like how, you know, I use that, like, for the most part. Would you get into work-wise? Where? After prison.

Oh, after prison? So I came home March 2nd, 2020 officially. While I was in work release, I was working at Eric Javits. He's like a hatmaker. He's like a famous hat maker. And I was working actually pretty closely with him. I was on the shipping team, but it was such like a small warehouse. Like literally see Eric every day.

I used to get in trouble with being on my phone by Eric all the time. And it's like you got jay. Lalo wearing his hats and all these, like, superstars wearing his hats. And then this guy's like, get off your phone. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I'm like, okay, cool. Like, so whatever. March 2nd, I'm officially off work release.

The pandemic hits March 10th. Like, that's when everything shut down. Like, it was kind of coming, but March 10th was when they did like the big, like, lockdown, everybody stay home. And we don't know how long this is going to take. So I got laid off. So I got unemployment. $900 a week unemployment.

Or like $7. something because I let them take the taxes off the top or whatever. Stimulus packages, right? I'm just coming home for prison and he's just showering me with all this money. Like, stay home. And I'm like, my parole officer is an elderly woman. She's not coming to check on me. She's calling my phone like, hey, are you home?

Yeah, I'm home. Okay, you better be home because if I catch you not. She's not coming. I saw my parole officer one time during the pandemic. And then I had to start. Then they finally let us report in person. And then I saw her more often. And they switched her, actually.

I didn't even meet the original one. She already had, like, retired. Like, she was on her last wit, you know? She was done. And I'd go and I probably see my parole officer. No lie, like the whole thing, wit reporting in person and everything, like five times. Then I had five years post and the governor,

she actually made a bill that for every month you do, you know, without getting in trouble, they credit you a month. So it was a two for one. So instead of doing a full five years, I was off parole in two and a half. years. Again, because I didn't get in trouble. I know friends that had did their whole parole time because they were always catching violations. Why are you catching violations, bro? Put your

fucking head down and just go. You don't bother them. They don't bother you. You know, so it's all about personal choices, you know, and that's really my, kind of my message, I guess. You know, I like to have a message in this fight. It would be like, it's all personal choices. It's all case by case base. You know, you could be an asshole. You're going to treat like asshole. You You'd be a good guy. You'd be treated like a good guy. You know, so for work, I just turned into a tattoo artist. I had the time.

I had the money. I had the network. You know, you come home, you get treated like a celebrity almost. Like, it depends on who you were before you got locked up. I was always a popular kid. And that's where I was going with this. Like, so as I came home, that same network of people who were supporting me while I was in prison, sending me letters.

Oh, my girl will post me on Instagram. People comments, 100 comments, free him. Oh, my God, missing. Wow, tell him I send my love. All those people, when you come home, all those people are like, oh, shit, you home. So now I got a little buzz, a little network. You know, they look at me like, oh, shit, we missed you. We haven't seen you in three and a half years.

You know? Hey, I'm doing tattoos now. Oh, you're doing tattoos? Everybody loves tattoos. I didn't know that because I never got one. So I didn't know the culture behind tattoos. I'm like, yeah, I'm doing tattoo. Oh, yeah.

And, you know, and one person turned into another person, turned into another person. I was doing them at my house at the time. and my girl was pregnant with my daughter so I'm like, damn, it's the pandemic. My girl's pregnant with my daughter. When I'm not happening my baby. Like, I got to figure out, I got to find a space to do this in. I went and rented a little studio.

Probably not bigger than this. And no windows, no, and I just went to work. Like, it was like, gung-ho. I don't know what I'm doing. I have no apprenticeship. Nobody taught me how to tattoo. I learned on YouTube. And now I'll have a shop.

I mean, other tattoo artists used to comment. comment on my shah, how you have a shop, dude? You haven't even apprenticed with anybody. Who are you? And I didn't let that discouragement. I just came home from prison. What are you going to tell me? You're going to tell me shit. What? Yeah, kill out of that noise. I'm good. I'm going to keep working and doing what I do. And then it just was a network. One, one person turned into two, two turning to four, four to eight, eight to sixteen. Now I got this whole network of people with this referral-based system. And I look back at those tattoos now and I'm like, Like, damn, terrible.

But the people that have them are happy with them, and they still come back to me to this day. And they understood, like, yo, listen, you were just starting, brother. And now look, look where we are now, you know? And now I'm in, now I do it full time. I mean, I did it full time since then. But now I'm like full time, full time. I built a mobile tattoo shop.

So I just took my whole business structure and put it on wheels. And, yeah, I just go around different places. and I tattoo and I speak to people, and a lot of people call me a tattoo therapist. One of my main clients in NBA, you know, that's his one thing he tells me all the time. Like, I got all the money in the world. Like, I don't know in the world,

but I'm pretty wealthy. He's pretty well-known basketball player. Like, I can go to whoever I want and spend $30, $40, $50,000 on a tattoo. I could do that, but it's not you. Like, I have you around my kids. I have you around my girl. When you come to my house, you have your own room.

Like, we locked in. It's not about the art. The art's good. It's a plus. But the person you are is what I pay for. I don't pay for the work as much as I pay for the person. I know I can trust you to come to my house and stay here for a week. And I might have to be on the road.

And I know you're here and I know you're good. I know you're not going to steal nothing. I know you're not going to try something on my wife. I know you're not a bad person. I know your character. So, yo, fly out. Yo, here, it's paid for it. Boom.

Do you just need tickets? I'm in town? Pull up. You know? So those relationships I build through networking. So I do it. It's not about the tattoo. For me, it's about the experience.

I want to know your story. You know, I'm kind of you on the other side of the tattoo. Like, we're talking right now. You're just not tattooing me. But I do the same thing. I just haven't monetized it, I guess you could say. I haven't put it into a podcast or anything because I just genuinely do it. And I don't think to turn a camera on.

Like, I'm just like, and people come and they, I've had people cry and say, hey, like, I haven't had nobody to talk to. And while you're amazing, I'm going to come and get another tattoo from you just because I want to talk to you. It's not even about the tattoos no more. Tattoo is cool. But I'm, I need, I need to talk to you. I need to hear because I'm, I'm non-judgmental. I'm going to give you to, I'm going to give you what I feel.

You ask for my opinion. You're going to get it. I'm not going to sugarcoat nine for nobody. We're going to talk. And I'm going to help you get through it. Sometimes you just need a different perspective. You know, most of the time, it's relationship. Oh, my man don't understand me and this.

And now I'm a man, so I'm able to. And I could easily be like here, you know, he ain't shit. And try to kick game and never. No. Have you thought about this? Wow. That's how young men really think. Have you tried this?

Come back for the next tattoo. Yo, I tried that thing. You were telling me about, yo, we spoke for like, four hours the other day. We never talked. Oh, did you let him finish his sentences? Yeah. Like, I just shut up and let him talk. And we got a lot of... Thank you so much. And it's like, got you. Like, I'm not... I don't got my degree in that shit. I just know people. You know, so again, the tattooing is my vehicle. Right, no pun intended, because I actually have it in a vehicle now, but it's my vehicle to... I know I'm not here for a long time. You know what I'm saying?

I'm not here much... I don't know. Anything can happen. I just want when I, when I, when I, when I, I go, people will be like, yo, Matt, people see my kids after I go, be like, yo, you Matt, son, you know? Yo, I love your dad, because that's how I grew up. When people saw my dad and they saw me, yo, your dad is amazing. You're so lucky to have him as a dad.

I'm looking at it like, that's a nigga annoying. He annoys, he can call him up, like, he wants to know where I'm mad. And they're like, nah, your dad? Your dad saved my life through, you know, through talking. He talked me out of some shit before. And I'm like, my dad.

So I kind of try to emulate that where now I carry that. Like I want my message when I go. Like I want my kids to be proud. Like, you know, that was my dad. You know, so that's kind of like where that went to, I guess. What's the most important thing you want your kids to learn from your mistakes? Don't be scared to do anything. Don't be scared.

Don't be scared of anything. Be cautious, right? Don't be scared. because again, I'm your dad, right? And I'm going to back you up 1,000% you know, don't be scared to be you. Be you. Don't try to fit to what you think you're supposed to be doing.

Don't try to fit until what you, you know, what your friends want you to be. My friends never pressured me to be anything I wasn't. You, you, you, not saying. We're going to treat you as you are. Right? So I could give that message to my kids now. I'm like, yo, don't be scared, right?

you come into a situation you can't handle, I'm here. Right? I'm going to let you handle it up until you can't anymore. Because I want you to learn. Right. And mind you, my girl is the opposite. My girl is very like, no, you got to do it, but I'm in. No.

No, no, no, no, no. Figure it out, right? Hold on. Let them figure it out. Okay. They're not able to figure it out. It's starting to get a little bit. Okay, let's reel it back in.

Right? But I'm going to give you that rope. The moment I feel I need to reel you back in just a little bit, just to give you a pep talk, and I'm going to let you, go back out and do, but, you know, leave it to my wife. He's like, yo, what are you doing? What are you doing? Like, hold on. Stop. No, let them. You have to. You have, so that's what I want them to know. As long as I'm here physically, I'm here for them. No matter what they want to do. I don't care what my kids tell me they want to do. We're going to figure out how to do it.

My son wants to play an NBA one day, right? Are the odds stacked against us to play in the NBA? Yeah. But do I now know NBA agents? big NBA agents that I have their phone numbers in my phone, that I tattoo them. I don't only tattoo NBA players. You know, you got their families and their, right?

And I'm not the type of person that's going to call their phone for no reason. I always tell, like, while I'm tattooing, I said, listen, my son's trying to do, what do you think is the path? I've never played an NBA. I never played college basketball. You got to ask.

Yeah, and because I'm so personable and we just had a full four-hour conversation about, you think these people in the NBA and all this and all these higher statute of people, people ever ask them what's wrong with them? Never. It's always what they could do for you, right? You in the NBA, can you get me tickets? You're in the NBA. Can you give me money? Can you sign this? Can you do that? Nobody's sitting there and going, yo, how you feeling? I text these guys randomly. I don't text them and go, oh, how you feeling? Yo, and by the way, can I get tickets? I'll text them.

Yo, how you feeling? I'm good, man, a little tough week, blah, blah, blah, whatever the situation may be all, y'all, I'm doing good, or bet. I saw your game last night. Great. End the conversation until maybe a month or so, right? That takes people a long way because they so used to that next, it's like an open-ended question. Hey, how you doing?

All right, cool. Now that you told me and I had to listen to what you were saying, now I'm going to tell you what I really want. And they see that. They're humans. People think these people are robots. Like, famous people are humans, too. They're just famous.

They're just known. But they have feelings. They have a mind. They could see shit from a mile away. they have families, they have everything that we have. They just make a lot of money to do their job, right? And people don't see that. And I've learned that being on the other side.

I see people walk up and they're so disrespectful in how they ask, yo, can you sign this? Yo, and if you don't do something they ask for, they get all bent out of slavery, they knew you for years. And it's like, what? So that, you know, learning that and being personal like that, people, I can ask a question.

Yo, you play that this college? My son wants to go there. Do you know a coach when my son's ready? Yeah, when he's ready, call me. Call me. I can't guarantee you a spot, but I could get him looked at. There's a lot of kids in America's millions of kids that play basketball.

They're never going to get looked at by this coach. Right? I can lead him to the water. It's up to him to produce and the coach to like him. I can't be like, hey, coach, this is my friend's son, and it don't work like that. But I could get him looked at. I can do that much for you because you're an official dude

and I want to help you because you always dare to ask me question. And always you care about my mental and you're there when I'm going through hard times. So if I could help you out by giving you tickets to a game or if I can help you out by helping your son get into a school, he wants to get into a son. I got you, but that's nothing. You know? So that's what I want to teach my kids.

Like you treat everybody the same way and don't be scared to do nothing because your dad is here. I'm like your training wheels, right? Well, we're going to take them off soon. They're going to have no choice. I'm not going to be here forever. So I just want you to be ready to ride that bike when those training wheels come off. You know what I'm saying? But while I'm here, you got training.

You're good. But let's try to ride this bike without him a couple times, you know, until you could become self-efficient. You know, and I think it's working. You know, my son, we're hoping to get him into a school. I'm going down to Florida on the next coming days. We actually part of that trip not only is for me to tattoo, but it's for him to go see a school,

a very prestigious basketball school, you know, and we got a hookup. Somebody hooked us up with it. All he could do is now produce. And either he's going to get into the school. He's not, but that's not on me. I can't go dribble that basketball for you no more. And he understands that.

I can bring you to the water. I'm going to leave you there. What you decide to do with that water is on you. You know, you could mess it up for yourself or you could go kill it. But you have an opportunity that your friends don't have. These kids, there's going to be kids out here that are going to go through life and say they never seen a school ever in their lives. And it's literally a school in America.

So it's not like it's abroad. You're never going to see this campus because you just didn't know nobody. So don't make me look, stupid. Don't be scared. Go out there and know, yo, my dad got me. I'm going to go give it my best and then whatever's supposed to happen is going to happen. So that's really, you know, my message to my kids and they know that. Like, I'm very hard on them.

I'm not, I'm not a soft parent that I let you got to have balance. My girl's a soft parent. I'm not. Like, I'm the very aggressive parent because I need you to know life is real out there. This shit ain't a joke. This ain't, there's more people that are going to treat you like me than how they're going to your mom treat you. I promise you. You know what I'm, there's a very few people going to treat you like your mom.

That might be your mom or your grandma. people are going to treat you like how I treat you more your coaches, your teachers, they're going to be more authority figured. So I need you to break out of that, you know, have that because I want you to be grounded and know that love is real and love exists. But also know that it ain't always love, you know. So we've got a happy little medium in our household, you know. I'm not where I want to be. I could definitely go above and beyond even more. But I'm happy where I'm at because I know where I was.

I was talking about my girl yesterday. Like, yo, it was so crazy. It feels like eons ago that I was in prison. For real, eon. I'm looking at this and I'm like, eons. It's only six years ago. Only six years ago. But, yeah, it feels like forever, you know.

But I hold it with me. I stay, try to stay grounded, try to use it as a marker, I guess you could say. My way to look back and go, okay, that's where it could go. You know, you don't want that. Chill. Relax. You know? So I'm sure you probably felt.

that way too. 100% yeah. I mean, I got out seven years ago. Okay. So yeah, you can definitely, you went through the whole pandemic thing. I'm pretty sure you have. So yeah, I mean, we get it, you know, and not a lot of people get it. And that's my mission is to get people who don't get it.

I want you to get it. I want you to understand without having to go through it. Like, this is my, the stove is hot story. Some people still got to touch the stove. Some people will hear you say it's hot and go, see your burn and go, it's hot. It's hot, believe it. You know? My job is to tell people, this is my burn.

Stove was hot. Take with that information what you must, you know?