Locked In with Ian Bick - I Joined the White Aryan Resistance in Prison — Here’s the Truth | Josh Lawson

Episode Date: March 24, 2026

Josh Lawson was born a drug baby to an addicted mother and raised by his grandparents, but a troubled path led him into crime at a young age. In this episode of Locked In with Ian Bick, Josh shares how he went in and out of jail and prison as a teen, committing armed robbery, dealing drugs, and selling guns before eventually joining the White Aryan Resistance (WAR) while in state prison. He opens up about life inside, the reality of prison gangs, and the mindset it takes to survive. During his final sentence in a federal medium-security prison, Josh made the decision to walk away from gang life and change his future, offering a raw look at what it takes to break the cycle and rebuild after years behind bars. _____________________________________________ #ianbick #lockedinpodcast #prisongang #whitesupremacy #prisonstory #prisonlife #inmatestory #criminaljustice _____________________________________________ Thank you to FACTOR for sponsoring this episode: Head to https://factormeals.com/lockedin50off and use code lockedin50off to get 50% off your first Factor box PLUS free breakfast for 1 year. Offer only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy with Factor. _____________________________________________ Connect with Josh Lawson: https://justlookupministries.com/ _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop _____________________________________________ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And so he come to the door and I'm like, what are y'all doing? No, and he buzzed the door. And he came and was like, no man, lieutenant says all that. I was like, look, no disrespect, bro. It's got nothing to do with you. You seem like a decent guy. We can't live together. And that's just what it is.

You know, this can't happen. Josh Lawson was born addicted to drugs in and out of jail as a teenager and eventually joined a prison gang. but one decision inside a federal prison changed everything. In this episode, he breaks down growing up with an addicted mother, being raised by his grandparents, and how he got pulled into armed robbery, drug dealing, and gun trafficking at a young age.

He shares what it was like joining war in state prison, the reality of gang life behind bars, and the turning point during his final sentence in a federal medium security prison that led him to walk away and change his life. Where'd you grow up? Richlands, Virginia. Well, I come from Richlands, and I stayed there until I was, like, 10, and I started

getting locked up when I was, like, little, man. Like, we robbed a bunch of petty stuff. We robbed a bunch of cars on the street, and, you know, it got, and it really, it gave my family, like, it's a small town, so it really didn't, they, it gave them kind of, like, the bad reputation or whatever, you know, so we ended up moving from there to Bristol, Tennessee, and I've been there ever since. What were your parents like? My mother was a heroin addict.

She just died like three years ago. She ODed on heroin. My dad, I don't really know him. I never, you know, like he was around until I was like maybe five or six. And I don't know. He's in my, you know. So what was it just your mom, you, and did you have siblings? No, he was my grandmother, man.

See, my mother, I was born chemically dependent to heroin. My mother was, like I said, a junkie, junkie. And so my grandmother took over and she became mom. You know what I mean? and my grandfather became dad. It's just, you know, but he was something else. He was a green beret in Vietnam, and so he was, there was zero tolerance for it.

So what do you think he was a little too strict on you? I don't think strict. I think strict would be the understatement of the century. I think he didn't really know how to interact with people, you know. The war had messed him up, so he was just, yeah, he was a violent individual, you know. But he was all I had, man. He taught me to be a man, you know. How old were you when you realized that you didn't have a normal family, that it was your grandparents raising you, your mom was addicted to drugs, your dad wasn't in the picture?

Yeah, it was early on, man. You know what I mean? I've always been able to self-reflect and just take an honest evaluation of what I'm doing and where I'm going. And I knew from a young age I was, you know what I mean? I was destined. When I finally, I guess when I finally got tried as an adult when I was 15 on some, I robbed a church and some, you know what I mean? like robbed this people's house and I just had a string of charges and they finally, they, um, they tried me as an adult, uh, for whatever reason. And, um, you know, then instead of

that bothering me, it kind of felt like I, it was like validation, you know what I mean? Like, I just always knew that, I don't know, you know, how'd that come about? Were you hanging with a bad group of people or? Yeah, I got on drugs the same, I, at a very young age, man. And I started doing drugs. You know, we had this doctor in my town. He ended up getting locked up later, but he would just prescribe you anything. Like we'd go over there and I'd tell him I had a cough and he would give me this, you know, polytussin, this cough syrup that has hydrocodone in it and we would drink that.

And then I got, I faked headaches until they gave me some, this stuff called state all. And I used to like take it and get high. And then it just graduated, you know, done to oxycodons and heroin. and, you know, meth. And you were just a kid at that time I was 15, I was a full-fledged junkie, man. I was shooting dope. Wow. Yeah. And your grandparents, where were they at that point? My grandfather was a drunk, you know what I mean? He was a severe alcoholic, man. Like, if he didn't have alcohol, he would literally drink like mouthwash, stuff like that, man. He was just, so when I got old enough to start fighting back, he just kind of chilled out, man. You know what I mean?

And he just kind of did his own thing. They just kind of let me. run, man. I just, you know, I just go places and disappear. Nobody, you know, nobody cared. I would always, excuse me, instead of getting absence from school, I would just go get myself suspended. I figured that then I couldn't get truancy, you know, so. Did you have friends or were you more of a loner? No, I had friends. I had, but most of my friends were older and, um, they've always pretty much been older. But, uh, yeah, I just, I just got involved in this world, man, and it just, everything just become second. I mean, it became inconsequential, other than getting high, you know.

So I had like a few group of friends that I would hang out with, mostly older, mostly in trouble themselves, you know, and then we'd go out and do stupid things, you know, get high and just do whatever. Did you ever have plans for your life, a future college? No. Was that ever a thought? No, definitely not. When I got out the first time, when I got child as an adult, it gave me, it gave me

like it gave me like 12 years but suspended a bunch of it and you know I ended up doing like uh I think I think I did like a year and a half on it or something like that and then I got out and I was like man I'm going to do something you know and I actually went to college you know I went to uh I had got taken you know D.C. Department of Corrects Education and got my GED in there and then I got out and so I went to college at Virginia Highlands Community College and I was actually going to be an English major of all things and I realized that in 99 cent it'll get me a cheeseburger McDonald's back then you know But yeah, I had ambitions at that point.

I wanted to do something better, but I didn't know how. And so I wasn't very good at dealing with failure, you know? So when I failed, I would just go back to my default settings. Like, man, screw it. I'm going to go get high. How do you think that first prison sentence as a teenager prepared you for what was to come later on? Like you said, it kind of just made me feel that when I got through it and I went there and, you know what I mean? It kind of made me feel more like, you know, I was the man, you know,

whatever, you know, I was, it didn't, it didn't, it wasn't detrimental to me as it should have been, and that's the truth, you know, I just kind of got through it, you know, I didn't really, it was really uneventful, you know, I mean, a few fights or whatever, but it was just nothing, man, you know, and so I came out the other side and I was just like, well, that wasn't so bad, you know, and then I got on probation and I've been on some phase of probation or, you know, a bond or waiting to go, like, from, it seems like my whole life, you know, and I've been, know. So it's just kind of, it's just kind of was there. It's just kind of what it was. You know what I mean? It's just part of it.

How does that make you feel when you say that out loud, you know, when you reflect on that? I feel like everything I've done has brought me to this point. And I feel like God used all those things to help me so that I can reach people who other people can't approach, you know. I can speak their language. I come from the mud, man. You know what I mean? I know what it's like to be calling that. I know what it's like to be hopeless. I know what it's like to, you know, to just feel like the world is against you, you know? And I think that even though those things kind of disgust me that I was like that, when I reflect, I'm like, man, I can't believe I've done those things. But ultimately, man, I don't regret it because it all brought me to where I'm at now. And in my

life now, I'm truly happy, man. I'm truly at peace, man. So I'm just like, if my story can help somebody else or I can, you know, go to somebody that will listen to me just because of that, because that's a thing, man, you know. A lot of people try to approach these people that have been sort of in the mud, man, and they go to them and they try, but they're like, I'm not listening to this dude. He's got nothing to do with me. It's not my people from him. He doesn't understand my world, you know?

And so I think he's just used that to help me to reach people. So now when you're attempting to go to college and become the English major, are you on drugs at that point or are you sober? No, I sober. I got sober. And then I went to college and I went one semester and I was doing good. And then I left to go to subway one day and got into a car crash. These people hit me in a stolen car. I'd later be friends with these guys. I mean, I didn't know them at that point, but I would later be locked up with the dude. But they hit me and so I didn't have a car. So I couldn't go to college. I couldn't attend college because it was far away and I didn't really have anybody like that, you know, that would take me. And so I just dropped out. And then I got

a check from where they hit me. And then I ended up getting back on cocaine, man. I just, you know, I started doing a bunch of coke and ran through the money and just was off on another chair. So do you think that one incident was the life-altering moment for you? Sure. And looking back, absolutely. Absolutely. I do. So tell us about what happens next. Well, only God knows what happens next, man. It's been such an adventure since I got out. bro um it's just been one thing after another i have just seen god just it work in my life man the only thing has changed for 38 years i lived devoid of conscience bro you know um i got to the top of a of a of a violent organization man you know and um i did it just with without

i didn't have any conscience i didn't have any feelings about people's you know what they I didn't care what you thought or felt. If you had stuff and you couldn't hold onto it, it was mine. You know? And so now, you know, I've just watched God work through me to help all these people. And, you know, I've just seen all these things come together. I got a job. I now solicit money for burn victims, ages six to 16 for the John City Firefighters Association.

bro, like everything in my life is just changed so dramatically, man. I don't know what's next. Only God knows what's next, man. Tell us what happened after the accident. I mean, well, after the accident, like I said, I got on, I got back on cocaine. And I started hanging out with my cousin. He's in prison, not too, but we started hanging out together. And then eventually the drugs ran out, man.

And so I started hustling again, you know, I just, and, you know, I just buy something. here and resell it, you know, just just hustling, man, living off the land. And, uh, I made a series of horrible relationship choices, you know, and then, you know, it's just, it was just a straight road back to prison, bro. You know what I mean? I just kept catching charges. I got, bro, I was on, I was, I did some world's dumbest criminal stuff, bro. Like, uh, I, I was with this girl, man, and I had just came from court. I went to Rosal County to go to court because I was like, I had, uh, an assault charge, I think, and a shoplifting charge where I'd try to jerk loose from the guy at Walmart.

I was stealing shit. But anyway, so I go there for the court case, and this girl, like, talks me into, instead of just going into jail like I should have, they wanted to give me, like, two weekends in jail. And I was like, all right. So rather than do that, she talks me into, like, putting it off. And so we leave together, and we're going to go see one of my brothers, okay? What I didn't know was he was arrested earlier in a day for assaulting two cops. so he's not home clearly and so we go to try to find his house and we're driving around russell cany

this place is one of those places that rolls the sidewalks up at night all right i mean it's there's nothing and so we get pulled over by this cop and uh he he pulls us over well when he starts pulling us over man i'm freaking out because i got a bunch of i got a bunch of zanex on me so i eat like like a ton of them bro like a whole ton of them and uh i'd been doing um you know gravel that they don't know if you or alpha PPP. It's like, flaka, I guess is similar to it.

Anyway, crazy stuff people are eating people's face on. It makes you crazy. But anyway, it's kind of like a meth and a hallucinogen mixed together. But anyway,

so I've been doing that. I eat all these nerve pills. And this cop, man, I wish I could think of his name right now, man. I can't think of his name. But anyway, he says rather than try to subdue me

in my agitated state because there was no backup around because this town is so small, he chose to, pound the vehicle and put me walking in this town that I'm not from. No one's there puts me walking, right? So I guess I'm walking down the road and I see this restaurant and I go over there and I'm breaking this restaurant and I go in and I drink three pops like straight down on the camera. Okay. I'm walking around and I'm looking. I'm trying to call my family from the phone in there because

my phone is dead. I get over there. I bear hug this pot of spaghetti sauce and put it up on the counter and get one of those big wooden spoons. I'm eating. This. This is. This. This video is horrible, bro. So I'm eating the spaghetti sauce with a spoon. And I lay down for a little bit in the restaurant. Anyway, I leave there. I go to some neighborhood behind this restaurant. I break into some cars up there.

I steal some firefighters gear and some jumper cables at this car. I carry it like 10 feet from where I was at, like from that house to the next house. Sit it down and put it back and drop my wallet with my ID and everything, man. So I go back to this restaurant and I end up passing out. And when I wake up, the cops are like, you know, they, like, you know, they know it's me. And they're showing me this video. And I'm, like, walked up to the camera at some point. I'm like this close to the camera, bro.

Like, get tapping. It was, it was ugly. And when I go to court, the bailiffs walking across, walking me across. And he's like, what are you in here for? I was like, man, I don't want to tell you. It's embarrassing. And he was like, what do you mean? He's embarrassing.

I'm sure it ain't that bad. I was like, man, I broke into this restaurant. He's like, oh, you're the guy that drank the pops. They had, like, been watching my video, you know? it was just, it was terrible, man. How much time did they give you for that? I think they gave me, I want to say I got seven years on each charge, and then they, see, Virginia will give you a bunch of time and then suspend it.

So I got like seven years. I'm actually still on probation for that now. I violated it and then came back. But yeah, so they gave me like seven years to spend it all. I think, but 18 months on that one. And I did the 18 months, and I got out and I violated and they gave me more, you know, because they were all concurrent sentences. If you love podcasts, you already know how to fit great stories into your busy day.

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This podcast is supported by GoFundMe. me. Instead of consecutive. And now, do you serve that in the state prison? No, I was in a region. We have these regional jails there. They're like, they're basically like prisons, but they're worse because you can't go out and do, you know, like mess around.

But, yeah, I ended up serving it in there. And then they extradited me from there back to the county jail in, in Sullivan County. And then I was, I had to stay there for like, I don't remember, like six or seven more months and then I bonded out on that charge. And then while I was out on bond on that charge, I got, I just kept, it just kept bouncing. I couldn't really tell you the actual linear progression of that. You know what I mean? When you're in the state and the county jails, are you with anyone?

Are you with a gang or organization? Yeah, with the a arians. Oh, so when does that start, your very first time you go in? Yeah, when I first started hanging out, when I first went in, I started hanging out with the DWBs, like the dirty white boys or whatever out there. but I wasn't involved. And then I got out and I went back in and I can't remember what I was in. I had a, like I said, just violations of stupid charge I keep going back on.

And so I went back in and I started hanging out with the war guys. And so I ended up, you know, getting down with the helm and really got everything going from that. And I ended up getting, you know, we had, it was on the street. I was hanging that's who I hung out with on the street was, you know, guys from prison. It's basically all that was around me all the time. I didn't know any regular people, you know. So, you know, it just progressed, man. You know, I just kept getting more rank and I just kept, I guess it just, I don't know how to, how did I say it, really.

It just, it snowballed, man. and I ended up, you know, I was, I was very, I was not a good person, man. I was very violent and very, you know, just in it to win it. How does it work? Did you have to join them when you got the prison there? No, no, no. You chose to join? I guess because at that point I was filled with hate, man, you know what I mean?

Like, it was just, I was filled with hate and it gave me an excuse to vent that, you know, it gave me an excuse to vent that, but I realized that, you know, it was filled with hate. If you understand the finer points of diplomacy, but you're also willing to stab somebody in the face, you can get through a gang ranks pretty quick, man. You know, not every brother's meant to be a warrior, but, you know, like most of the ones who are warriors don't understand, you know, like abstract thought, you know,

or the ability to, you know, to see situations that doesn't always require a sledgehammer, you know? And so, and then that, and, you know, I had connects, and it just snowballed, man. And what do you mean by Warrior? Like somebody who's willing to go, you know? Like, the one who will go through the door first. You know, when I first got there,

he told me, you know, you want to see your brothers where they are. Wait till the butcher's come out. When the knives come out, you'll see who's your brother. And then who's like, oh, I got to go fix my calendar, you know, or I got to go, you know. Because that's what it is. A lot of people talk a good game. But when it comes time to handle business, you know,

you see a different side of people a lot, man. You know, when it comes time to go through the door and to go, especially if you're outnumbered or, you know, that you know it's a situation that could potentially or will turn out bad, but you still have to go take care of it. You think when you joined that was your first sense of family? Absolutely. Absolutely. That's what I said.

They're the only people I hung out with on the street, you know. I still talk to all of them. That's what I'm saying. Like, you know, some of them, like Adam, I introduced them to Ben. You know what I mean? Like, it's, I still, I still love those guys. That's the thing, you know. I gave my life to the Lord, but I didn't stop loving them or stop, you know,

I just can't in good conscience due to the things I did. And we don't have share the same ideology anymore. But as far as people, man, you know what I mean? I've known some of these guys my whole life, man, you know. What are the rules when you join? Well, like, as far as what? Like, do they outlay principles you have to follow? Sure, absolutely.

Absolutely. Like, you know, like, if you're talking about racially, it's like you can't break bread without anybody for another race. You can't sell with somebody for another race. You know, just things of that nature. You know, it's basically structured for, it's like a business. You know what I mean? Like you have the people who are about that life and the people that you know

and then you have people that are expendable and people that you can send to the, you know what I mean? It's just like a business, bro. Now, can you join and just be prison affiliated or does it always carry to the street? No, it carries over. Yeah. You can't just be. be prison affiliated. Once you're in, you're in, you know, like you can't just turn it off,

you know. Is that on like other prison gangs or are all prison gangs? Yeah, yeah, to my knowledge. Yeah, to my knowledge. I mean, because, you know, like I said, when you're in this world, you're always in some phase of being incarcerated, you know what I mean? So it's just natural. You meet up to people, you guys link up in there. And then you get to the world. And a lot of times, what it is is, we'll still talk to each other, but not hang out, hang out, because if you get to hanging out too much, chaos and craziness will ensue, you know, so people go back to their lives and try to, you know, do families and if they do that, we, we tend to, us, we tend to encourage that, you know what I mean? Like, do you get ahead, you know what I mean?

Like, but, because for any, every one person that's trying to get ahead, there's 10 that's still willing to live that life. So it's, you know what I mean, it's just, but yeah, yeah, I can't imagine that you would join a gang than just not know them when you got on the street, you know? When you first joined, do you think you actually genuinely shared there? same beliefs or do you think you were just doing it to fit in? No. You know, the thing is, I identified with the hate and I was happy to see that I had an

enemy to find. That was it. But at the end of the day, man, no, bro, I've never been a racist. I've never, you know what I mean? Like, I've just, it was never in me like that. But the truth is most Aryans from gang, Aaron gans are not racist. You know what it is, you know, I know a lot of them that, you know, have good, like con boys we mess with, you know, that are other gang members even, you know what I mean?

It's just, it's, it's, it's a business, man. It's about controlling things inside, you know? It's about if stuff comes in, I want a part of it, you know, and I'm going to get a part of it. Where do you think your anger and hate came from? Probably just, it's the way that I seen when I was a kid that you dealt with things. This is the way my old man dealt with things, you know, and it was just, and so I just seemed that at some point, violence could could be a means to an end. It could get you what you wanted.

And I come from poverty and I had nothing, man. You know, so it was the way I had to go take it. I had to go get it because I already had a felony record. Nobody was going to hire me. How else am I going to get it? You know, so I didn't, I didn't have, in my mind, it was just the only choice. It was the logical choice, you know. Now, were they okay with your drug use, the arians?

No. Well, it's one of those quiet secrets where most of them use drugs, but, you know, it's, you can actually get violated for it. You know, you can, yeah, yeah, there's no drug use. And then some of them say no excessive drug use. Some of them say no IV drug use. You know, but the gap, yeah, most of them get out. Because when they first met you, you were probably a drug addict, right?

Well, I mean, yeah, I was coming off drugs, obviously, when I was in, you know, when I got to jail. But I don't know. Yeah, I was a drug addict, bro. Yeah. And why do you think they tolerated that with you? Um, chis, like I said, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's pragmatic. You know what I mean? Like, you have somebody who is able to hustle and, and, you know, is of reasonable intelligence and able to, and will go anytime, you know, and so that that kind of outweighs, you know, everything else in

the integrated or scheme of things as long, you know, it's just like anything else. How much stuff will, somebody tolerated a job from somebody who's really good at their job. You know, and that's all it was, man. Before you joined the Ariens, had you ever experienced violence? Yeah. Oh, yeah, my whole life, man. Yeah, my old man. Yeah, my whole life.

Just to how he would abuse you? Yeah, just, and not just me, others around her, you know what I mean? Like said, he, and then I'd been fighting since I was a little kid. I mean, I grew up in trailer parks, and, you know what I mean? It's just, that's what you did back then, you know? Now, you mentioned you were a dirty white boy. No, no, I wasn't a dirty white boy. I was just, I just met those guys and hung out with them.

No, I never, no, I never got down. What's the difference between these groups? They have different ideology. It's just, like, it's just, and not even all these different ideologies. It's just, I mean, what's the difference between the Bloods and the Crips? You know what I mean? They all, they're all doing the same thing. They just happen to find themselves in that particular set most of the time.

Now, are you guys enemies? Who? The Aryans and the dirty white boys? No, not to. I mean, sometimes, I guess. You know, it just depends. It just depends, you know? it's the thing about it.

There's no set like, all these people are my enemies. It's just people staying in their own lane and people try to push in and, you know, stuff happened. Somewhere between getting back in the gym and realizing summer's coming up, I knew I couldn't keep making excuses with my diet. I was working out, but if you're not eating right, you're just spinning your wheels. That's honestly where Factor came in for me. Factor is fully prepared meals designed by dietitians and crafted by chefs and they're

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back and forth and um i hooked up with this this girl and you know it just i just lived life as a junkie in and out of jail you know like just just on dumb stuff you know i mean i could show you my paperwork like i brought it you know so you can see it but um it's uh it's just dumb stuff man it's it's not like it was just i was just always caught up in some phase of it or i couldn't you know i'd get in probation and i would get you know i'd get violated or you know just do something stupid so it was like I was just constantly calling the system like three months here, six months there, you know, a year here. It's just, it was just up.

It was like a long, funny, unfunny version of the movie Groundhog Day, bro. Did you work a normal job at all during those years? No, no, I sold drugs. I worked some construction for a little while, but I primarily just sold drugs. And you were still active with the Arians during this? Yeah, we still talked. We still hung out. Like I said, I was on the street.

I'd see him when I went to jail and I'd, you know, a few of them I would hang out with, you know, that, you know, if you said, it's kind of like one of those things, like, okay, I know those guys are my brothers, but I hang out with these guys, you know, this is my friend and my brother, you know, so that's what I would do. Would that make probation during those years harder? Oh, yeah, man, because I was constantly just trying to beat a drug test, man. I was constantly just trying to just pray in that I wouldn't get, like, piss tested, man, you know? Because I wasn't stopping, and then sometimes, you know, I would, you know, I would mean to stop,

and then I would know I had to go to report, but then I'd just be like, you know, and so, yeah, it was just a constant. I actually said that to my federal PO the other day. I said, man, it's crazy to be on probation and just not, if you call, I'll talk to you. You know what I mean? I don't get, like anxiety or, you know, like, man, it's just, it's a different experience now, man, to, like, live life.

It's like I'm a new person, man, you know? Tell us about how you got your Fed case. I guess the feds must have been watching me because, from what I understand, we sold a gun to somebody and he robbed a cell phone store or something over in North Carolina. Anyway, somehow my name got thrown in and I guess they were watching me. And then I was bouncing around, just strung out, man, you know, and I'd been up for days on meth. And I had these two girls, man. And so I was messing with the one and the other one, me and her had been in a relationship for a long time.

time it was coming to an end. So we got into an argument that morning and she, she left, okay? And so she was actually on her way to court, to state court. And so I was like, I don't want her to not get court because of me. You know what I mean? Like, I, you know, I didn't want to be that kind of guy. So I was just like, man, I'm going to go pick this chick up. I'm going to drop her off the court. I'm leaving. I'm going to get with this other girl. I'm going to start my life. I'm going to do something. And so I go to pick her up, drive down the road I stopped the first time

we're arguing she goes I left I went and grabbed stupidly I grabbed the guns and put them in a car they weren't in the car this point

I don't know why I did this but I grabbed the guns I put them in the car I left a clip on top of the car okay there was an actual clip of ammunition sitting on top of the car

when I got when they rolled up it's completely crazy bro but anyway so I drive down to pick her up I see her walking on

inside of road. I pull in. I get out the car. Um, it may or may not have been a gun in my hand. You know, you get out the car and, um, somebody, I guess, said that they saw a gun, but, uh, we're arguing she goes to get in the car. They swore me, bro. Like, you know, and so, uh, I end up getting my teeth knocked in the, in the process. I, like, the two teeth, like, gone. Um, but, um, they, they just come down on me, man. And I had, uh, like I said, I had, um, um, An AR-15 had been converted to Foliato. I had some pistols. Just a ton of ammunition.

I can't remember how many rounds. But it was said for, like, police or something use only on this ammo. It was crazy. But anyway, so they got me and they charged me with a 922G, a 922G3, drug user or meth user with a gun, felon with the gun, 922K. I think that was the obliterating a serial number and a 922J. And that was for the ammunition, I think.

They get a ton of these 922 charges. Well, when I got there, they told me, because of my past, they believed I would be 924E, which is what the 922G means a felon with, up with the gun that becomes an uncurt criminal. The own criminal act. And it carries 15 to life. And they really thought I was going to be an ACC. I thought I was going to be ACC.

It was only by the grace of God that apparently when the first step act was written, It came out just at the same time. They changed the definition of a serious drug offense. It used to be any charge that had a statute or max of greater than 10 years, but then it became for which you served the term of imprisonment greater than one year. And so on my dope cases, I had got, I had a bunch of dope cases, like probably five of them, you know, maybe more. But one of them was possession with intent, intended crimes didn't count.

And then two of them that were previously, predicates, on one of them I did, I did like six months on one. And on the other one, I got a sense to the community corrections. So I got two years in the halfway house. Like it was like a locked down halfway house. And so community correction didn't count, man. And just by the grace of God, I just, I didn't be. I was an ACC, man.

And so it dropped back down from, you know, 58 months to life to like, you know, a maximum of 120 months. once I, they tried to give me to plead out for 120 months because I had so many, um, enhancements, you know, because they, they just enhanced the crap out of you. You know, they, you know, you, you get charged with a gun and it starts down here to like a 15. And then once you got so many rounds, you got rounds in a clip, you got the zero numbers gone's four points. Like, all this stuff just starts adding up once you got up. And my lawyer came to me and was like, I think you should sign this deal. And I'm like,

I'm not pleading to the statutory max of the charge. There's no world in which I'm doing that. And I'm like, I don't even get benefit of acceptance responsibility because literally by the time they take it off, I'm still at 120 to 150 months. And I charge it carries 120 months. I'm not doing that. And so I ended up taking an 11C1C plea, a static plea, and, you know, pleading out. And they run the guidelines and they gave me 84 months. So. How did you get into selling guns to begin with?

I learned that you could convert them to fully auto really easily and then charge them. a ton of money for it. What's the difference in price? Like, I could, you can get a rifle for $700. I can convert it to fully auto and sell it for a couple grand. Now, why wouldn't those people just convert it on their own? Who knows? Why does people do that? I don't know. Who knows? I don't, I don't, I don't understand the world, bro. Now, were you picky on who you sold guns to? Yes. Like, you didn't want to sell it to say, like a teenager that was going to shoot at a school. No, no, absolutely not. No, absolutely not. No. I sold them to, to, to, primarily to gang members, and people who were, you know, protecting their drugs, I guess.

You know, drug dealers and gang members is who I primarily sold them to. Did you ever think about what they would do with the guns? No, man, I never cared. And that's the hard truth about it, man. I never even entered my mind. That's just me being as honest, I know how to be. How does it make you feel now?

Terrible, man, you know? I ruin people's lives. You know, there's no other way around it, you know? I sold drugs. I sold guns. I was a terrible person. and I ruined most of the people's lives that I ever, or if I didn't ruin them, I participated in their ruination, you know?

So, yeah, it makes me feel terrible sometimes, man. That's why I try to do as much good as I can with this ministry, man. I'm trying to put as much good back in the world as I can because I put so much bad out into it, you know? Do you ever follow up with people that you sold guns to see what happened to them? No, man. You know, whatever I thought? The thing is, well, I mean, I know where most of them are in federal prison.

You know what I mean? For various other crimes, you know, because the feds just kind of swept through, you know, East Tennessee and I think locked up everyone, you know, I mean. But most of the people I sold to, like, they collected them or they, you know, I was able. I know where most of them are at. Like I said, you know, like they get various dope cases or get called with the gun or, you know, like, and the feds just ain't playing. So they're taking you down. Like, you go into feds. They're giving you 10 years, you know.

So. Now, on your case, do the Arients help out with a lawyer? How does that work? No, man, you know what? I had a... I got an awesome lawyer from the court. You know, I mean, like, I mean, I'll just initially, man. He was like one of the best trial laws in Tennessee, man.

And he's the one that talked him into... Because I refuse to cooperate. And when you don't cooperate, they try to hammer you, man. You know, like, they try to hammer you. Like, so that's why they try to give me 10 years. And then I tried to file a motion with him to suppress the evidence because of an legal search and seizure issue, the way they got me, even though I was dead guilty, they actually violated search and seizure laws, you know?

And so I'd look this up and we tried to file and they basically told me if I proceeded with the motion to suppress the evidence that they would supersede and be able and indict me for, you know, others. It was just a hopeless cause, man, you know. Well, what happened if you cooperated? With what? With my brothers. With the time, but also with the brothers too.

Oh, yeah. I'd be a marked man, you know what I mean? Like, it's just all there is, you know? How much time did they offer you for cooperating? They basically offered me initially to just let me go. You know, when I got there, like my lawyer talked to the Homeland Security guys or whatever, and basically they, you know, said, you know, tell us enough and we'll make it disappear, you know? And I just, I just didn't entertain it, man, you know what I mean?

Like it, like I told them, I told my lawyer, man, here's the thing. none of them men told me to get out there with the gun in my hand bro none of them men told me to get out there and do that I chose to do that and in fact some of the men they would want me to tell on had told me actively don't get out there with the gun of your hand don't be an idiot so I'm not going to ruin someone else's life you know to save my own I'm just not built like that man is it ever a thought when you're presented an offer like that yeah sure everybody if you say you didn't think about you probably told you know I mean like obviously

if they're telling you can go home you know yeah but at the end of the day man it was just, it wasn't worth my dignity, bro, you know, and that's the God's honest truth. I've grown up, you know, in the system or around people in the system, and it wasn't worth me selling my dignity. And that's the truth is, you know, ultimately, that's what it would have been. It would have been people then, if I wasn't marked, then people would still have looked at me some certain type of way or they would, it would have hurt everything in the end. And at that point, when I offered me, I'd give my life to the Lord in the county jail.

And then I believe that I'm ambassador for Christ. So whatever I do reflects on him. And so how are people going to listen to me when I'm supposed to tell people about them? When they can't respect me as a man. So while you were awaiting trial or to plead that out, that's when you turn to religion? Yeah. I mean, yeah. So how does that affect your standing with everything?

It's been surprisingly cool, man. Yeah, I'd never, I was an atheist my whole life, you know, my whole life. I hated God. I hated the idea of God. And I used to think it was just fairy tales for weak people. And so, man, I had seen things, man, that in my mind, I couldn't, I could no longer ascribe to coincidence that I felt was providence. And then I would pray and I would get specific answers to my prayers, man.

Like specific answers. And I'm a natural-born skeptic. Like I said, I was an atheist. And I would get these answers to my prayers. and God would show me things and reveal things in my life. And I just couldn't no longer deny it. It wasn't like I was scared and had a foxhole conversion. You know what I mean?

Like I just couldn't deny it. So I decided I'm probably going to get 188 months of life. What does it matter now? What I got to lose? I might as well just, you know, I might as well just try to ride this thing out. And so I just started doing the things that the Bible told me to do. And, you know, the truth is the things.

the things in the Bible are so backward from the world. It's like bizarre land. You know, they're telling you to give your stuff away and to, you know, to be nice to everybody. And that is everything you don't want to do in prison, first of all. And it's, you know, it's really contrary to what the world tells us. The world tells us to get ahead. The world tells us to, you know, look out for number one. So I started doing those things, man, and they started working.

My family started coming to me. And I got this awesome lawyer. And I'm not saying that God, you know, I wasn't asking for any of those things. But my life just started getting progressively better. and I had peace for the first time my whole life that anger started to subside and I have peace and I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I don't still get angry because I do you know it's in me you know it's my default setting but he's gave me so much peace that this surpasses all understanding man and so I gave my life to the Lord there and then when they come and they asked me to cooperate

I prayed about it and it was just it was not something I could do it's not something I could ever see myself doing, you know, so I took, I took the time. And it was the best thing that ever happened to me, bro. You know, I got, you know, I got God out of the deal, man. And so, you know, I started doing the things that, you know, God asked me to do. And then over and over and over, I could see his hand in it, and I could see him testing me. And I could see, I could see these things, just, I could discern things, you know, and I, and I, and, I, and I, I, and, I, and, I, and, I, and, I, It was just, it was beautiful, man. And it started, I started helping people.

I started having a conscience, and I started doing what I could for anybody I could. And my life just got better, man. And then I decided I was going to start this ministry. And I got out, man, and I just, I just went for it, man. I just started, you know, I was in there. I did the, I actually led the messianic services a couple times. They let me speak there. And then, you know, I got out.

And the preacher let me preach at his church. and I just it just took man you know and now everything I end up getting a good job you know I mean it's not the greatest but it's a rewarding job I'm helping kids you know I end up getting uh you know I got a car basically given to me somebody told them that the Lord told them

they wanted it's just I've just seen all these God things that other people I know that secular I mean non-secular people are going to think foolishness but I seen these things happening and I just followed it man I got this ministry, just look up ministries. Just lookup ministries.com. It's just been going excellent, man. It's just God has just done so much stuff in my life.

I can't even, you know, I can never say enough about it. When you had that realization in the county jail, where does that leave you with the Ariens and what you have to do? Yeah, see, that was the trickiest part, you know? Because you're facing the sentence, a long sentence. Do you want to abandon them going into it? And see, that's the thing, man, you know? And so what I did was I prayed about it.

And everybody knew me, man. You know what I mean? He said, I've always just been a real dude, man. You know what I mean? Like if it needs to be done, I'll go do it. You know, I've always been like that, man. You know, like, I'm still like that. I love the Lord, but if you want to get it anytime, we can get it.

You know what I mean? Like I just, you know, it's just it's how I've always lived my life, man. And so when I told him, I'm like, man, I love you. I love all you guys, man. But I don't share the same ideologies as you anymore. I can't in good conscience do the things I once did. I know this is really real and I'm going to follow this. And if I have to drop out, then that's what I'm going to do.

And so I talked to them. Well, I didn't talk to my sent word back and forth, you know, through intermediaries on the street. Because they're all in prison too. And so I got word from the very top. man that they would don't drop out they were figuring something out and they created a position of a spiritual advisor and let me just step into that that's unheard of bro you know what I mean just let me step into that as a Christian spiritual advisor and a pagan organization as an oldest organization that's unheard of bro that's the power of God and I've seen these things happening and I just

step back and I learned that you don't have to drop out of a gang just start talking about Jesus they'll drop out away from you they'll be like oh bro yes good seeing you man good see and They don't want to be around most of the time. But they all respected me enough to know that I wasn't telling her nobody. I wasn't hurt nobody. I never would. Never would I ever. So why didn't they want you to drop out?

What was the issue with that? Well, I mean, dropping out gives you a bad, it's not what you do, man. You know what I mean? It's, there's a lot of bad connotations that come with that, you know? Not just, not just physically, but, you know, as a person. You know what I mean? Like you're kind of untouchable. I guess at that point.

You know what I mean? People know you dropped out of a gang, you know, because most people drop out because they've done something, they've done something super shady or they've debriefed and told on people. You know what I mean? Like it's, there's no, there's no nice way to drop out, you know? But what about the people that have the same realization as you? Yeah.

As far as, yeah. That want to drop out. And they do that. And a lot of them suffer consequences for it, you know, and that's the truth. But I think that, I think that people got the wrong idea about gang life sometimes. You know, I think that they feel like you've seen. all these TV shows and stuff. But, you know, at the end of the day, we're all real men. We're all real people and able to think and reason and to, you know, to see situations as the situations

they are. And so I think that, I think that God makes provisions for those things. But when he doesn't, I mean, I guess it was just that person's role to suffer. I don't know. I don't know the answers to everything, man. You know, I don't know how it all works. But I just know for me personally, I didn't care what happened. I was going to follow God. God, I was committed. And just like I was willing to die for this, you know, I'd found something that gave me something that nothing else had ever given me. So I was, I'm all in, man. Like, I'm a junkie, bro.

I was just, I get that feeling. I'm chasing it. That's what I've been doing ever since. Just chasing that feeling. Were you scared or nervous while you were waiting to hear back on an answer? No. No. I mean, I was in the airing gang unit when all this was, in the airing unit in Tennessee of Southern County.

when this all happened, man. You know what I mean? They have a whole, no, I wasn't there. They have a whole unit just for the areas. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I was in there, and I had the rank in there.

I was like, yeah, man, I wasn't scared. It wasn't like that, man. You know what I mean? It just wasn't like that. It wasn't like I was just going to be like, all right, I'm dropping out. Screw all you guys and, you know, go and just tell on them or anything.

It wasn't like that. It was, it was diplomacy, bro. It was just, it was politics. Now, when you're in a unit, where it's all of your brothers together, is there violence, or is it fairly safe because you guys are all on the same side?

It's fairly safe. There's violence, you know what I mean? Like, that's how problems are solved. And, you know, you went to prison. It's like how problems are solved. It's through, you talk about it. If it doesn't work out, you all go do something about it, you know?

And so it was a lot calmer because in there, if you raise your voice with somebody, y'all got to go. Like, y'all got to get it. You know what I mean? Like, you got to shoot the one. Like, if the social respect is, is at a high level there.

So it's just, it's just, but yeah, I think it is safer, actually. How do you feel about that concept now? Because in the real world, if me and you got into a screaming match right now, we're not going to go to a room and shoot the fair one, you know? Yeah, you're right.

Like if you're at the office, you know, you're not going to do that. You're right. And like, and the truth is, man, I've had to, like, sort of learn to rein myself in, you know, because my office, I have snapped on somebody a couple times. You know what I mean?

I mean like, like, I'm not, you know, just freaking out, you know, because it's hard to take, you could take the boy out of the prisoner, the boy out of the white trash, but you can't take the white trash out of the boy so easily, you know, it's just like, so, yeah, I've had to learn that I can't solve problems with anger or yelling or, you know, and none of those things. And so I try to, I try to be as peaceful as possible, but, I mean, it's still in me. I'm trying to be, I don't want to sit here and give you some idea that I'm like, yeah, I've just got all the answers in that, you know, God just made me. I'm just like a super peaceful, you know, nice person.

I mean, I try to be, but, you know, I'm still me. Have you watched any of these, like, Garrian Brotherhood type movies? The movies? Yeah, like any of them, like, say Shotcaller, for example. No, I haven't seen Shotcaller. I've seen, obviously, American History X and stuff like that. But I've seen, I've seen, I can't think of the name of it. What do you think is the biggest misconception between real life and the movie?

this. Well, I mean, I think there's a ton, really, man. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, like I said, in real life, you talk to these people, you're, you're friends with them, you're, your brothers, but a lot of times, you know, like I said, I'm good friends with them, you know? And so, it just kind of, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. Like, when I talk to them, when I, when I do things, like, I just don't feel, I know that they're gang members and whatever, but I just don't. It's just been so ingrained to me. I don't even see it.

You know what I mean? Like I don't. And so like they make it seem like on these movies that they like, they blow everything out of proportion. Just like they do anything in a movie, man. You've seen, you've seen the show locked up. It's super exciting. Prison is mostly just sitting around doing, reading books and doing dumb stuff. You know what I mean?

It's not like that, you know? They give this misconception because, I mean, it's good for television. You know, it's good for, you know, it's good for ratings. Now, what about the aspect of, say, someone that's not getting affiliation? and it's white and it goes into prison. Does he have to join up? No, no, he can stay in. Yeah, absolutely.

So do you think that's a misconception? Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously if he goes into feds, he's going to be in a car of some sort, but he's not, they're not going to just drag him into a gang and be like, oh, you got to be, yeah, that's definitely a misconception. And the fact is, like a lot of times we don't want them people. They just come from the street, you know what I mean?

If you don't, if you don't bring something to table, why do we want you? You know what I mean? Like, if you're not going to, you know, bring, bring money to us to, organization or power or strength or, you know, you don't add something. I mean, ultimately, bro, I think prison is a popularity contest, just like life is a popularity contest to some extent. You know, it's who you know. And it's how much do people like you? And what do you bring versus what do you detract? And I think that I think that we do that as humans. I think that's, you know, it's anthropological, you know what I mean? I think you can find that within most groups.

You know, there's hierarchies and there it's just, you know, I think that there's so many similarities that people just focus on these extreme aspects of it. But a lot of times it's just not like that. Do you find that those people join up because they want protection? Sometimes. But see, that's the thing. Like, we didn't want people that wanted protection. I wanted people that, you know what I mean?

When I recruit, anybody I ever recruited was, did not need no protection. They brought something to the table. You might need protection from them, but they don't need protection. You know, so. And so. Yeah, I mean, I think that it does happen. I think a lot of gangs recruit for numbers and they just get body so they'll feel like, oh, we're huge, you know, we got all these members.

But like I said, what's the good of having 10 members of five of them being going to go? You know what I mean? Like, what's the good? Now you're bringing, now you're having to pay for these guys and support them, help them get food and stuff. And they're not going to go. Why do I want that? They're just dead weight. Do you feel bad about the people you've recruited?

Sure. 100%. 100%. What do you think about it now, looking back on it? I just, I feel bad for anyone that I influenced into any element of crime or any element of, of destroying their own lives or destroying other people's lives, man. It's just that negative I put it out into the world, man. You know, yeah, I 100% regret most of the stuff I did. I mean, as far as regret it, but I look back and it's like, man, you know, that sucks.

I did that, man, you know. But like I said, I just, and I'm not using this as a failsafe, but I mean, what happened had to happen for me to be at the point I am right now. And so I trust that God has a plan. And if they want to turn to him, he has a plan in their life and he'll use that for good too. You know, we all have free will. And so, you know, sometimes we use our free will to do things that sucks, man, and things that is not cool. What prison do they end up sending you to in the feds? I got designated to Atlanta.

Atlanta shut down and they sent me that this new prison had just opened back up, that Mariana prison. That's where I met Ben. Was this a medium? Yeah, it's a medium. Were you worried you were going to go to a USP? I was. I was.

I barely missed it by like one point. I'm surprised given like gang status and everything. One point I missed it by because they didn't have me listed as a member of a white nationals organization, not a gang. Isn't it the same thing? No, apparently not. Apparently not. because they took pictures of my tattoos and everything when I got there.

And they, it was just the grace of God, bro. It's just crazy how all that stuff worked out, man. Like it was, it was crazy because like I said, in my PSR, they got pictures of my tattoos. They got pictures of all that. But they, instead of describing the swastika, they described the tattoo, the Cowboys from Health and the Pantera cover in the middle of my chest.

Now, do you find that the feds classify differently than the state prisons you were at? 100%. What was the biggest difference? Well, I think that they, just, um, they, the feds seem to, like, they're way more serious about keeping people separate who are not supposed to be together. You know what I mean? Like, keeping different gangs and different prisons and keeping them off. You know what I mean? Like, they're, they're way more involved, I think, in the process than the state prisons are. You know, state prisons are just seeing you

where you're at. Like, like, I'd never heard of a bad prison or some prison that you, you know, you had to leave. And I'm like, you can leave a prison. Like, what is that? You know, like, I've never even heard of that. Usually, you're going where you're at and you're stuck, you know, it's just, that's just what it is. You might get transferred because you've caused enough problems, but you're not just leaving. Oh, you mean like the concept of checking in? Yeah, the checking in and just going somewhere else. I'm like, what? That's, that's ridiculous. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. So that doesn't fly in the state? No, I mean, you just check in it. They just keep you back and checking it until they eventually kicked you back to the yard. You know, not to my knowledge,

that they're just letting people leave prisons. I never heard of that. So do you think the feds are just too lenient on people then, giving them an out? I think that the feds are way, way more involved in what's going on. You know, I think that they understand, like they are way more involved in people's lives in there and understanding these people like, oh, this is this gang, he's got to go to this prison. You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, absolutely. I mean, they have a whole division. They have like ASAS. Yeah, ASAS, yeah. When you get to the yard, does ASI sit down with you and meet with you? Yeah, I talk to this. And what do they say to you?

He just asked me basically was, you know, I basically told him like he asked about, and I said, look, man, I'm just not on that time anymore. You know what I'm just not on that time? And he said they would give me a chance and check it out and see, you know what I mean? Because he basically felt like I should be at the USP too. And he gave me a chance. And I didn't go back to the game.

I mean, I just didn't do it. I just stayed out the way. I kept, I kept, I stayed at the church or the chapel or, you know, just learning about God. And it was a, like I said, it was, I lived like a monastic life, bro. You know what I mean? I was like a monk. I literally just stayed out the way.

I mean, I did hustle when I first got there and made a little money. But, you know, eventually God convicted my heart of that, and I stopped doing that. You know what I mean? But, yeah, I just stayed out the way, man, you know, and I would just, I would buy food. I would work out. You know, I'd buy food out to chelho. I would just, you know, I'd just cook, make food, you know, just hang out in my cell, man, read about, you know, crazy, like theology. And I started going to college, Calvary Christian College and seminary when I was in there.

and so I would be doing that, man. I just tried to stay out the way as far as I could, you know. Yeah, man, it was just I can see God's hand in all of it, bro, like every bit of it, from the prison shutting down to getting put there. Crack a Kamen Jack Margarita and taste your escape. It's America's number one for a reason. Kamen Jack is a premium malt beverage with flavors. Please drink responsibly.

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Because that would have forced you back into violence. 100%. I'd have been right back into everything. And that's the thing. I thought I was going to USP Lee. when I was at the when I come back from being sentenced I thought I was going to Lee County and so uh my jail the regional jail I was talking about being at if you catch a charge at Lee County you come to my jail when they street charge you at Lee County you come to my jail and go to

max where I'm at so there's all these Lee County dudes in there you know like and so yeah I'd done talk to a one they called Nazi uh I talked to him and like gave my paperwork. I had my paperwork at that point because I went to the feds. And I thought I was going there, man. You know what I mean? I'd just resign myself. That's where I'm going.

By the grace of God, I guess with my age and, you know what I mean? Like where they just didn't, they didn't gang tag me, man. Is it political in the mediums with the arians? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, it is, but it's kind of like, it's political with everything, though. You know what I mean?

Everything is like, they talk about everything to death in there. You know? That's different from the state. Because in the state, there's a little bit of talking, but, like, they talk about everything to death in the feds, man. And it's just like, and everybody's super in everybody's business in the feds, you know? It's just like, it's crazy, man. Now, what do you mean by talk about it? Like, if there's an incident?

If there's an incident, they want to go talk to this person and this person and they're going to go talk and then they're going to decide this. And it's just, sometimes it's comical, bro. You know what I mean? It's a lot. Isn't that better than resulting rate? 100%. I mean, 100%. Yeah.

And it's better for the economy because you don't got people popping off and the people hustling. You can hustle. I get it. Like, but it's just, it was, I'd never seen it like that. You know what I mean? It was different. Now, going on to the block when you first get there, are people like whispering about you or talking about you? Or because you're the new guy on the block?

Yeah, well, sure. I mean, yeah, people just come up and approach me, you know what I mean? And I had some ABT guys come up and talk to me and just, you know what I mean? And I basically was just like, yeah, man. See, that was the one good thing about my gang isn't in the feds. You know what I mean? it's not a federal gang. There's, there's no, like, it's just war's not a thing in the feds, you know, it's a state gang. And so there was no war guys there, you know what I mean?

Like, I'd met one in, um, when I was in, uh, Oklahoma, you know, and he was going to, uh, I think he was going to, uh, Hazleton, maybe, I can't remember, but I met one of them there, but, you know, it's not, there's not like that. It's not that. There's a bunch of dudes from Arkansas who were war but you know like it's just uh it's not a federal gang so I was like yeah man you know I'm war I'm just you know and basically I just have been talking to people about the Lord since day one and when you do that I'm telling you it just it naturally you get a separation between people because they're like all right bro good to meet you and then they just write you off you know I mean so are there different types of Aryans yeah so war is the one you were

yeah there's a ton bro there's the Aryan nations Aryan Brotherhood Aaron Brotherhood Aaron Brother in Texas, the SAC. There's a ton of them, bro. But each one recognizes the mall? They fight amongst each other. Yeah, they fight amongst each other. Yeah, like the ABT dudes and AB dudes are constantly at it, you know? And then you got the NLR around west of Nazi lowriders.

There's a ton of them, bro. Wow. Yeah. And the Nazi lowriders, I think they hang. I don't want to say this for certain, but I think they hang out with the Serenios or the Tentinos. So now the A. is popular in the feds?

Yes, AB and ABT, there's a ton of those ABT guys. Okay. The Aaron Brother of Texas, there's a ton of those guys. Like I said, everybody I met, man, was just pretty good guys. I mean, just, you know, and when I say that, it sounds horrible, but, you know what I mean? Like, from my perspective, from the world I came from, you know, you can be a gang member and a good guy. You know what I mean? You're just caught up in a bad life.

and so that's who I'm trying to reach out to is people who, you know, are still caught up in that world, man. People who are stuck between worlds and they want to do something better and they want to have a different life but they don't know how. And so that's what just look up ministries is.

It's me attempting to reach out to people who don't feel comfortable in church who don't look like me and they think you're going to rob the place we show up. You know, like you go to a church and they look crazy at you. And, you know, that's the unfortunate truth about the world today. And so I'm reaching out to people that nobody else wants to reach out to,

man. And there's a lot of good dudes who have good hearts, you know, that really want a better life, but they don't know how to get it. And that's what God does. If you stay faithful and you look toward him and you follow him, he will give you a better life. You know, it may not be as quick as you hope and it may not, you know, I don't know why he does the things that he does, but I've seen too much evidence of it in my own life that I, nothing, I changed nothing else except for God. I added God to the equation. I started looking toward him and praying about things before I did it and looking up and I just watch him bring people into my life and make these, these monumental changes without me trying to change anything. I'm doing nothing, man.

I literally just show up and talk about the Lord. That's it, man. And people are responding and It's just, it's been good, you know, but like I said, you know, I tell my brothers about it all the time. I tell you anybody that will listen. And when you do that, like I said, you're not the guy's actually the most popular guy in that world. You know, people just, they don't dislike you, but they just don't want to be around that. And nobody wants to hear that, you know, especially if you're trying to live, if you're just

trying to live and get high and go do your thing and make money, you don't want to hear about, you know, what the Lord can do for you? Because you're doing it for yourself. Now, speaking of looks, how do you feel about the tattoos? because I'm sure people look at you differently when they see you. I like the tattoos, man. I just got, as a matter of fact, I just got those ones. I don't know if you can see it.

There's got those other day. But you want to hear a story about that? So when I was getting this tattoo, right? The dude who was tattooing me, I've known him since we're kids. And his name's Mike Deal. I've known him since we were kids. And when we were like, little man we were smoking crack together when we were like 14 man you know like it was it was just i've

known him my whole life and we've been drug acts together my whole life he's been to prison too he got the robbery charge into 12 years in virginia um he was actually in georgia when i was in the feds uh he got called some stuff down there but anyway mike struggled his whole life you know just the same as i had and uh so he came over to tattoo me so i wanted to get right for the show for your show you know and uh so he uh came to tattoo me and uh we're sitting there and he didn't get finished before I do my little thing. On Sunday nights, we go on. I do Zoom rooms.

Just look up ministries. I do the Zoom rooms, and I do a little message, like a little, you know, 30, 45-minute message, and then we talk about it. And, you know, just do messages. But anyway, so he's sitting there with me, and he was like, I'm not finished, man. Do you want me to go?

And it's like, well, you can go, or you can sit here and wait, you know, whatever, whatever. He's not a believer. So he decides to sit there with me. And so he sits there when I'm doing a message. So I'm just doing my thing. I'm talking, you know, just doing, it's being mean. And I look over and he's got tears in his eyes.

And I was like, whoa, you know what I mean? It kind of like threw me off because we didn't, you know what I mean? He never had that kind of emotional, you know, it's just, it threw me off. You know, it's, you know. And so when I, something tell me when I got done just to keep going. And so I just kept telling him, like, I just. turn to him. It's like, bro, look, man, I know I'm not saying that he's going to take away your addiction. I'm not saying you're not going to wake up tomorrow and still be a drug addict

and still, you know, it's a dope-sit, but I'm telling you he'll help you. And so I started just talking to him and talking to him and he's crying more and more. I mean, he's really crying snots coming out of his nose. I mean, you know, it's for real. He says, uh, see, you just got to let him in your life, man. Let him do his thing. And he's like, I don't know how. And he gave his life to the Lord right there. I walked him through the sinner's prayer. He gave his life to the Lord right there. Since then, he's been doing so much better, man. He's obviously still got a drug problem.

That's the thing about God. God will meet you where you're at. And these churches preach that they make you feel like you got to clean your life up before you can give your life to the Lord. Like you'd have to, you wear a suit and tie and go in here and just you can't have bad habits. And, you know, but the thing is, you know, the Lord walked with sinners. It didn't say he turned them into saints.

He walked with sinners because he come for the lost and the broken. He didn't come for it. He said, I didn't come for the healthy. They don't need a doctor. So when I started, you know, tell him, it's like, like, bro, he'll meet you where you're at. He will come to you right where you're at, and he will come into your heart, and he will help you get out of that situation. Sanctification is a process. He's not going to do it overnight.

I mean, sometimes I guess you could, but if you just fall on this road, he will help you to walk out of darkness. They said, sometimes it's a long hard road out of hell, like Manson said, you know. know. I mean, but if you just start letting him guide you, you will get to a better place. I say that with 100% confidence. And I know this to be true. And so I watched him just, I've watched a few people get their lives to the Lord. And I've watched their lives turn around, man. And it's just been amazing, bro. It's been amazing. This ministry has been the best thing that's ever happened to me. And it's changed my whole life. And honestly, the thing is, I don't care what happens next. I know God's got me.

Do you see yourself covering up the gang tattoos? No. No. They're my burden to bear. You know what I mean? It's just I can't take my shirt off obviously anywhere because I scare people. You know what I mean? And I work out, which is really a double-wear sore because, you know, I've gotten in pretty good shape, but I can't take my shirt off places.

Like my son would be mortified if I took my shirt off. You know, and I would scare people. I can't go to the beach. But it also shows that how far I've came. It gives me, you know, you can see it. It's on my skin. You know, I wore these things with pride at some point. And it shows the length that God has brought me from darkness into light.

And it gives me access to a people who normally wouldn't listen. You know, it shows that, look, I understand what it's like. I understand what it's like to not just be a drug addict or to be lost, but to be lost and be in an organization where you can't just walk away a lot of times, you know? And I will help you through that. And that's the thing, man. Like, it's just all I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to help out wherever I can help out, man.

Like I said, I put all that evil in the world, those guns, those drugs, the violence, you know. So I'm just trying to do what I can to get back to God's kingdom. Do you think about what would you have done if they gave you a different answer about walking away? If they said no. Yeah, I guess I'd have been through it, man, because I was going regardless. And that's just the truth. And they know it. And it's what it is.

I'm going to follow God to the end, and I'm going to follow them through whatever happens. It doesn't matter. So what advice would you give to some people that are in a position as yours that want to walk away and they don't know how to? It depends on what they're trying to walk away for, I guess. But, you know, if they were in the same position to me, I would just say give it to God and he'll make a way. You know, give it to God, and he will make a way for you. Pray about it and he will show you which direction you need to go.

and that I have confidence. If you seek him, you will find him. You just have to listen. But, and I would say be a man. Talk to your brothers like a man. Don't go do some grimy stuff. Don't, you know what I mean? Don't go tell on them.

Go to them like a man and let them know what's going on. And a lot of times people will deal with you, you know. You got to be a man. You got to conduct yourself as a man and people will treat you like a man. You know, if you go weak with weakness, they're not going to respect you. So you probably leave a lot of get treated any kind of way. How do you make amends with people you feel? physically hurt.

That's the thing. If I, if I, if I've hurt you or anybody out there, I'm very sorry. Like I said, and that's the truth, you know, I wish I could take it back, but I can't. But, you know, if I see someone that I physically hurt, if they're not scared for me to approach them, I would approach them and say, look, bro, sorry, man. You know, it was what it was, you know, but. Yeah, I don't know about that one, bro. That's a hard question, man.

You know, I just, you know, pray that God will put me in the right situation that I can approach to people and I can tell them I'm sorry and that, you know, that I was who I was and that I'm not that person anymore, you know, and hopefully they'll believe it. But ultimately, you know, I've asked forgiveness and I believe that God's forgiven me. But as far as the world's concerned, man, like I said, it's a hard run. If I've hurt somebody, then, like I said, I'm sorry. I know there's a lot of you out there. people have robbed and armed robberies and it was just my life was just a chaos at the end i was kidding we were literally at the end i was committing probably literally two to three armed robberies a week man just robbing people for dope and just it's out of control i'm lucky i didn't kill somebody

man you know did you make it through your federal prison sentence pretty much without issue yeah i stopped and i just stopped um i got like one shot the whole time this was for something stupid bro i can't remember what it was like for sleeping to count or something dumb so did you do your whole sentence in one spot yeah i got i went from said i got designated to landa then lana shut down he sent me to over there and yeah i just been there went there the whole time so you stayed at a medium the whole time never made it to a low no no my points was too high like said i was one point i think i was one i was like 23 on my point or something 24 you have to be the pin or 22 i was one point and it was really my age and then something else i can't remember what else it was but yeah i was lucky bro i was so i was so

I was happy when they didn't see me to pee. I'm not going to lie because I knew my life was going to be very different, you know? Tell us about some of those stories where they would put someone in your cell, say, like, a white guy that was unaffiliated. Like, I know if I went into your cell, I'd be pretty scared. So, okay. One time, all right, well, they have this thing. I'm pretty sure it's called the Gladiator Law. They're not supposed to put two known combatants together or whatever.

Like, you can't house a Serenio and El Teno together. but uh there was this there was this big black dude man they came and tried to put him on sale bro and uh they i thought they were screwing with him first you know what i mean like and they tried they like brought and he i'm talking when i see big he was six eight probably he was big bro you know and so he called to the door and i'm like what are y'all doing no no you know and they buzzed the door and i was i was in a max you know and uh and um he came was like you know man lieutenant says. I was like, look, homie, I was like, look, no disrespect, bro. It's got nothing to do with you. You know what I mean? Like, you seem like a decent guy. We can't live together. You know what I mean? That's

just what it is. You know, this can't happen. And so I'm like, man, y'all can't put him in here. You know what I mean? And like, if you put him in here, you're going to cause problems for no reason. And this was after I came my life to the Lord has happened. And so I didn't want to just and so I'm like, man, you're going to cause so much problems. Just you don't want to put him in here. And I was like, man, homie, you didn't got nothing to do with you. And he was like, it's all right, man. They, uh, they, like, um, was like, listen, he's going to have to go in here for a minute, you know, until we can go because it was like, you know, and you're going to have to put him in here for a second. And the dude came in, shut the door and he was cool, man. He understood, you know what I mean?

He knew it wasn't. I was like, bro, it ain't nothing personal. I'm not a racist. You know what I mean? It's just, we can't do this. I can't, I'm not allowed to do this, you know? I got no personal problem with you. He was cool, man.

I fixed him a cup of coffee and everything. We kicked the door and then got the lieutenant back down there and he left, man. You know what I mean? Like it was just, you know, because people understand. That's the thing. It's not like everybody doesn't understand what's going on. Why would they put him in there to be in with? Just to be just to try, I guess just to screw me.

I don't know why they did that. Or if somebody had come up in the system somehow, I don't know. Like, um. Now, if you had agreed to it, would that cause problems? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%. Because I'm not supposed to live outside my race.

You know what I'm not supposed to live with, with anyone that, you know, it's not white. Um, but, you know, you know, it's not white. But, yeah, man, it would it cost problems. But it was just, it wasn't going to happen. I was just, at that point, you know what I mean? He had to leave. And if they're not going to take him out of there, then I'm going to buck. And they're going to have to take me to the shoe.

You know what I mean? That's what I'm not. You get in those situations sometimes. That's what the worst part about, that's one of the worst things about gang life, is you get in these situations where you have to do something. Even if you don't want to do it, you have to do it. You know, they put me in a cell block one time with a bunch of my enemies, bro. And when they put me in, I'm like,

I did not want to go in there. I've never wanted to check out of somewhere so bad in my life. I'd just be honest with you. I just wanted to leave, but I couldn't. I ended up getting jumped, man. You know what I mean? Like, they did that just to be jerks, you know what I mean? But I ended up getting jumped.

And yeah, I got jumped pretty bad, man. But I did not want to go. I seen it when they set me up for it. I'm like, bro, I do not want to do this, man. But sometimes you got to do what you got to do, man. Because ultimately everybody's watching, whether you realize it or not. It's a small community and people know. You know, so I just had to do it, man.

You know, sometimes you're flush, sometimes you bust. You know what I mean? It's just what it is. Now, how do those rules apply to you now that you're in the free world, but you're still, you still technically have a position with Aryans? Yeah, still technically. So do you still have to follow those rules? Or is it different?

They made me spiritual advice. They knew what was going on, bro, is what I'm trying to say. Like, they knew what was going on. I haven't even talked to anybody. I still talk to a few of my brothers that I still talk to. But, no, I don't. It was basically through the grace of God. their goodwill told me that because of who I was,

that they just let me step back. But I mean, essentially, you know what I mean? I'm not involved in anything they got going on or a decision-making process or, you know what I mean? I just, if somebody wants to talk about the Lord, I'll talk to you about them. And that's just pretty much what it is. You know, I'll literally spiritually advise you

to the best of my ability. But no, man, it's been, it's been amazing, bro. It's been God. That's what I'm trying to tell you. This is over and over and over. I've seen these things that shouldn't happen, happen. And, you know, I know a natural skeptic, you can discount it a million times and be like, oh, it's just, it's coincidence. And we're just merely time plus matter plus chance.

And that's fine if that's what you want to think, you know what I mean? But for me, I've seen too much. And once I know something, I can't unknow it. Once I commit to something, I commit to it. You know, that's it. It's always been who I am. This podcast is sponsored by IQ Bar. Not to be a stereotype or anything, but I am one of those go, go, go girls.

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20% off all IQ bar products plus free shipping. That's IQBAR.com promo code Brain IQ. IQ bar.com, code Brain IQ. And so, you know, I'm just all in, bro. I'm all in. So tell us about that transition getting out of prison this time now that you're not on drugs. You're not committing crime. You know what that was like.

It's being crazy, bro. So like I get out and I go to the halfway house. And I'm like literally praying like, Lord, I need a job. I need an answer. I need to, I want to do something. Like I just want to go get a job. I did not want to be in that place because it was crazy mad. Like it was the worst place ever.

You know, it had six men in the cell. in one cell and like people were working different hours and people was waking up and no one had any respect and like some people were camps and some people were peeing it was just terrible um so i'm like i got to get a job so i just clicked a bunch of jobs on indeed like everything you know and uh so i get a job i get a call from from the knoxville firefighters association and they're like you put in a job up case year and i'm like bro i can save you a suspense you're not going to hire me you know like you you are not fixing to hire me and he's like why and i'm like well you know i gave my life to Lord about six years ago.

But before that, I was a very terrible person. I just told him, like, I was a bad person, bro. And I looked terrible on paper. And it was a job. It was a sales job, like soliciting money. So when I was talking, he was like, well, you just want to come down here and take the interview anyway? And I'm like, yeah, sure, man.

He's like, at least you get shit out of the halfway house. I'm like, all right, so I go down there to do the interview. And we do this little mock phone conversation or whatever. He's like, bro, you nailed it. You know, you killed it. And he was like, I got a couple people to talk to. I'll let you know. And that's usually a kiss to death.

The guy's comfortable people talk to. I'm not going to be one of them. And bro, the next day, man, he calls me. And it's like, listen, man, I know you've had some problems. But, you know, I really believed you when you said that you gave your life to the Lord. I really believe that you're trying to do something different. I think you'd be a good fit for this team. And so, bro, I was so loyal to that man after that, you know, because he gave me a shot.

And I'm a loyal person. So, you know, if, you know, so basically when I came from the half of the half, halfway house after I got out you know they forced you out you're like you got to go now you know and I live in in Bristol an hour and a half away so they kick me to Bristol and I'm trying to commute every day so I'm driving three hours to go to this job to work every day bro and it was killing me bro and um because you know you got to check in and you got to do all that you know like call them when you get back and I was constantly forgetting and missing my things and getting in trouble and um finally man I just couldn't take it anymore, man. It was just too taxing on me. So I just quit. And I thought it was

over for me, man. You know, like, so I get back to Bristol, nobody wants to hire me, no one. You know, like I'm talking about no one. The factories, no one was to hire me, you know. And so he, I started praying one day, you can believe this or not, but I started praying. I was walking around my driveway and I was praying, God, I need a win today, man, I need something. I don't know what you're doing to me, basically. I thought I was trying to be your guy. You know what are you doing? And so he's basically, I stopped praying. Literally, man, when I tell you, this is for God, man, I walked from praying that to the building, looked down, and there was a miss call on my phone.

It's from Johnson City. I don't know anybody at Johnson City at this point. Answer it, and it's my boss, Nick. And he's saying, amen, I heard you in the area. I'm with the firefighters over here, association over here in Johnson City. I heard you in the area and I heard you were really good at your job. And if you don't have a job or you don't have some line up, I would like to give you, you know, I'd like to have an interview with you.

He didn't even have a position for me, bro. I can show you this. I can put you on the phone. He didn't have a position for me. He literally created two positions. He gave me two different part-time jobs to make me a full-time job. And I've been working there ever since, bro. You know what I mean?

And like I said, I'm decent in my job, man, you know? And it's just like, I've just seen these things over and over and over. And so that snowballed. And then, like I said, my aunt then calls me and tells me that God's been putting it on her heart for some reason to let me have her car. And she would sell it to me for $3,000. And it's like a $12,000 books for $12,000. He was like, I shall give it to you for $3,000 because that's what I need. And it's just step by step, bro.

All these things have just happened, man. Like I have put zero effort into it. I wish I could take any credit, but I have put zero effort into it. I got this ministry, bro. Ben, Jew, I call him. But anyway, he, um, he put a he did a news article about me on LinkedIn okay and puts it on there from that a guy calls me tells me once you hear my story hits me up on LinkedIn I don't

use LinkedIn hooks me up with a tax attorney in California who who files my 508 nonprofit status like bro these things like it's just crazy how these things happen that this guy's call I mean he just happens I have a buddy who's a tax attorney over there and the dude does it for like super cheap for me you know and then it's just Just step by step, man. I've just met the right people at the right times, man. And now Crossroads Medical and them are partnering with my ministry. And now I'm being able to refer people that don't have insurance.

And you know what I mean? I've just, it's just been amazing, bro. I got the socials up. And I try to do little videos or whatever. Like, you know, I'm not very good at it. I'm not, you know, you're much better at it than I am. But I try to do little, you know, just little messages about God. And, you know, I just, and I do this Sunday night Zooms.

I go in there and we do a message. And like I said, it's not polished and it's not for, you know, it's not for everybody. And I'm just like if you don't like it or I'm saying something that offends you or you just simply don't listen, unfollow me, unfriend me, whatever. But, you know what I mean, I'm just doing what I feel like God wants me to do and that's all that I can do. How do you explain the life choices you made to your kids? You know what? It's funny.

I just had this conversation with my son just the other day. He's 21 now. And I've missed most of his life. you know, thank God for him, you know, in most cases, you know, but I never let him, I never let him be around drugs. Like, I never brought drugs around him. Like, I might be high around him, but I never, ever let anyone do drugs around him, and I've never, I've never hit him because I used to get beat my mom, man. I've never, I've never done that. I'm never even, I think I've, like, I spanked him one time, like, but, um, uh, anyway, uh, I just, he's so proud of me, bro, like now, you know what I mean?

Like, I've just told him, like, I've always been up front and honest. I'll tell anybody anything you want to know, bro. I've been to screw up my whole life, man. And I have messed up in every way imaginable. And if it's the wrong thing to do, I've done it. And I've probably done it two or three times, and I probably liked it is the sad thing. You know what I mean? But God's changed my heart.

And so now I own those things. And I say, yes, I've done those things. I shouldn't have done that. It should have been a better father to you. You know, I should have been there to teach you how to change the oil before you're 21. I should have been there to show you how to, you know, to change brakes on the car, to do this or that, any number of things that's just should have happened naturally in real life, you know.

But instead, I was living some imaginary crazy existence where those things never even came into the picture. You know, I wasn't a good dad. I wasn't a good man. And that's it. That's the hard truth of it. But now I am. Now he's my, you know, he's my son. He's my friend.

And I try to be there for him in every way imaginable, you know, most of the time. financial, you know, because he's, you know, but, but, uh, you know, he's just doing so good and he's so proud of me, bro. Like, he literally called me on the way here, right after I got through that crazy traffic in New York, um, he called me and just, like, told me like four times in the conversation how proud of you, maybe it was. So, I mean, that, that's rewarding, man, like said, and I have only God to think for all that. How do you feel today? Do you feel like you have to look over your shoulder from the past, or? No, I feel safe. I feel like, God will protect me, and he has, and I'll feel like he'll make a way.

And so I don't, I don't fear what man can do to me. You know what I mean? And the thing is, I haven't done anything to look over my shoulder, you know? That's why I brought you to paperwork. I wanted you to see, I'm doing this because I love the Lord, not because I'm running from something or I'm hiding from somebody. If you want, I can put you on the phone with all my brothers right now. You know what I mean?

Like, I just, I'm just doing it because I love the Lord, and that's what he wants me to do, and that's what I'm going to do. So, no, I'm not hiding from nobody. And hopefully nobody's hiding from me. You know what I mean? I'm just, I'm not that guy anymore. What would you tell yourself when you were in prison that first time if you could sit across from him today before you joined the Aryans? Would you do it again? And what advice would you say?

If I'm being honest with you and I hate to say, I know it's going to be an unpopular answer, but I do it all again. It made me who I am and it gave me the love for the Lord that I have right now. And it gave me the skill sets and the knowledge that I possess. And if we start taking things away from who we essentially change who we are as a person. Like we are very personhood. And so it's unfortunate if I hurt somebody. It's terrible that I lived that way. But, you know, at the end of the day,

and it was all for, all things worked together for the good. All things worked together for the, all things works the other for good. Sorry, I don't mess that up. But yeah, so, but it's tattooed on my hand. I just drew blank. But I tattooed it on my hand with a bullet. All things.

it together for those who love the Lord and those who are called according to his purpose. And that even means getting called with guns. And that means all things because God can turn it around. He can turn anything, any negative into a positive. He uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. And so we get wise in our own thinking and just think that we are the kings of our own destiny. And until we abandon that and we realize that there is something above us, then it's higher than us and that it has the better plan than I think we'll all stay lost to some extent.

Do you think it all comes down to finding your purpose in life and having purpose? Absolutely. Absolutely. 100%. Because once you have a purpose, a real purpose, you know, that will consume you and that will guide you. And it's what I'm saying, and God is my purpose. And he guides me. And yeah, until you do that, until you get direction, you'll just be wandering around laws.

And, you know, on a long enough timeline, you're warning around laws. and you're wondering around with other people that are lost, and other people are lost are probably not the best decision makers either. So then you all get together and then you're lost together and then if you just follow that progression, it's bound to you and bad, you know? Well, Josh, I appreciate you coming out here today and sharing your story and, you know, making the drive out here

and sitting down with me today. Well, I appreciate you, bro. I appreciate you giving an opportunity and hope it didn't do too bad. No, you did great. I want the link to your organization in the description in this episode. Okay. Yeah, I appreciate it, bro. Like I said, we're trying to do all we can for them.

Yeah, if there's anything I could be of assistance with, please let me know.