Locked In with Ian Bick - I Killed the Cop Who Abused Me | Clark Fredericks

Episode Date: July 29, 2025

Clark Fredericks' life was forever changed by one of the darkest betrayals imaginable—he was groomed and abused by his Boy Scout leader, a man who was also a respected police officer. That trauma led Clark down a destructive path filled with addiction, gambling, and mob debt. But everything came to a head years later when he ran into his abuser again… and snapped. Clark was charged with murder—but the truth behind what happened changed everything. In this emotional and raw episode, Clark opens up about the abuse, the moment he took justice into his own hands, his time behind bars, and how he’s finally found peace after the storm. #TrueCrimeStory #SurvivorTestimony #PrisonRedemption #JusticeSystem #ChildAbuseAwareness #MurderToManslaughter #AbuseSurvivor #LockedInPodcast Connect with Clark Fredericks: https://konect.to/freelike-me08808 Buy his book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1668018659?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cso_cp_apan_dp_0BFKHXN4B89PVPJMS5Q6_1&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cso_cp_apan_dp_0BFKHXN4B89PVPJMS5Q6_1&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cso_cp_apan_dp_0BFKHXN4B89PVPJMS5Q6_1&bestFormat=true&csmig=1 Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Get 50% off the Magic Mind offer here: https://www.magicmind.com/IANB50. #magicmind #mentalwealth #mentalperformance Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00:00 Intro 00:06:46 The Hidden Dangers of Trust and Secrets 00:14:36 Manipulative Relationships in Childhood 00:22:33 Living in Silence 00:30:47 False Allegations and Their Consequences 00:38:59 Coping Mechanisms and Consequences 00:47:13 Navigating Youth and Self-Awareness 00:56:00 Deep in Debt: Owing the Mob $77,000 01:03:57 Face-to-Face with a Crime Family Threat 01:11:49 Struggles 01:20:33 Confronting the Past: A Return to the cop's Home 01:28:37 Confrontation with Law Enforcement 01:36:14 Prison Life and Unexpected Support 01:44:11 First Day in Prison: Challenges and Adjustments 01:52:06 Reflections on Incarceration and Release 01:59:08 An Inspirational Journey Through Adversity 02:06:37 Promoting Healing with "Scarred" Book Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and American Airlines Advantage program partner, your miles go further across the South Pacific. Book now at Fiji Airways.com or contact your local travel agent. Conditions apply. And there he is sitting there watching TV in his living room. And it was like looking at the devil, sitting in his lair. And I feel that like rigamortis coming on me. And before it does, I march up to his

front door. I rip open that screen door. I break it off to hinge. And I look my abuser right in the eye. And I said, it's not so fun. Been little boys now, is it? And I slid his throat. Clark Fredericks was groomed and abused by a trusted Boy Scout leader who was also a decorated cop. That betrayal pushed him into a life of addiction, gambling and mob debt. But everything changed the day he came face to face with his abuser and snapped. Charged with murder, Clark's case exposed a haunting truth that would shake a community. In this powerful interview, Clark shares the abuse he endured the moment he took justice into his own hands and how prison became the first step toward healing.

Clark, welcome to Lockton, man. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thanks, Ian. And the day this episode comes out is the release of your book. Yeah, brother. That I want you to plug in at the top of this episode, show the audience right there. there and, you know, give people the elevator pitch of what the book's going to be about, and we'll have that link in the description of this episode.

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, my life's journey. I got a publishing deal with Simon & Schuster, so I guess they thought it was interesting enough to write me in advance and sign me up. And, you know, it takes you through childhood abuse, keeping secrets. Secrets are what destroyed my life, you know, one addiction after another, just complete self-destruction, no boundaries in life, losing myself, sinking to the ultimate low that we'll talk about soon in the show, and then finding myself in prison and deciding to take my life in a new direction and just wanting other people to heal and avoid the path I took and become

I'm an advocate and online coach and now having a, you know, a book coming out, you know. So it's a – and mixed in amongst all the rubble of my life is an amazing love story. So, you know, that sort of like calms all the trauma down in the book. Oh, your wife's out there listening to you. My girlfriend. She'll hear wife. She'll be running in this room, you know, looking for the ring. So girlfriend, future wife, you know.

Future wife. There we go. Yeah, that's a correct terminology. And you have a podcast as well, right? Yeah, I have a podcast called Free Like Me. And I started that after I found my brother dead on our kitchen floor two years ago. And he was abused by the same guy I was. And he just couldn't come to terms with it and drank himself to death.

And I just wanted, I didn't want any other family to go through what ours was going through at that time. So I started this podcast to give people a voice to make him feel comfortable. to come on, talk about their trauma, and to walk out of the studio free like me. Where did you grow up? I grew up in Stillwater, New Jersey. It's a real rural section of New Jersey up north. And everything was outdoors-related growing up, you know, just hunting, fishing, hiking. We have a ski resort, Mountain Creek ski resort in our county.

just anything anything outdoors related is what we did. Who'd you grow up with? Did you have siblings? I know you mentioned your brother. Yeah, I had a brother, six years older to me. I had a sister, five years older. And parents, you know,

typical middle class family. You know, and we were raised in a lake community, Paul and Skill Lake, which is part of Stillwater. And just, you know, as a kid, You were always down at the lake, skipping rocks, fishing. There was basketball courts, softball field, jungle gym, tennis courts, just anything you'd want to do. So all the kids congregated down at the dam area where the lake then went into a river. I grew up in a lake community too right down the road.

Did you? Yeah. So I can relate a lot to that type of upbringing. Driving here, like GPS took us like all these rural roads. I go, I can't believe this is how we're going in. And my girlfriend's like, this is just like your county. Like, it felt like identical to it. Yeah, people don't even think that this studio is up here.

They're like, am I in the wrong spot? We pulled in. We're like, where the hell is it? That's exactly what we said. We're going to change the sign so it says actually locked in with the NBIC instead of the studio name. Creative? Yeah. Yeah.

Because in the email I got, it said, you know, second floor locked in. And I'm like, I don't see any signs that locked in. I ordered the signs and waiting for them to come in. So I think you would have hopped on that. What did your parents do for work? My father was a salesman. My mother worked in the library at the new school they built. They took seventh and eighth grade out of the elementary schools back then.

And they put it into the high school. So the high school ran from seven through 12. And she worked in the library the whole time. How would you describe your childhood in general looking back on it? Well, that's sort of a... Maybe before, let's break it into parts before what would happen to you would happen. Yeah, I mean, my childhood, you know, it was flawed from the rip. I was born with a hole in my heart.

And the doctors monitored me till I was age six. And the hole had grown to the size of a half dollar. And they told my parents, you know, we got six-month window to operate. And I went into Mount Sinai. hospital in New York City and had this life or death surgery. This was back in 1971. You know, open heart surgery nowadays is still risky, but back in 71 being a six-year-old kid, it was really risky. And, you know, so I was always, anytime I got sick as a kid, I instantly got put in the hospital because of this hole I had, you know, so like I got bronchitis. I'm in the hospital. I

got pneumonia. I'm in the hospital. I got the flu. I'm in the hospital. So I was constantly in and out of the hospital and then I was in for a month straight in Mount Sinai. And I have a keloid condition where my scars are raised up. So the scar I have on my chest is pronounced. And that would be my abuser's avenue into his first act of grooming was to touch my scar, you know, asking me, I've never seen a scar so raised up. Can I touch it, Clark? I'm like, sure, you know. And then that was our secret and then secrets did me in bro. Who is this individual? Yes, this was my older brother.

You know, like I said at the start, I had an older brother, six years older. And we had a next door neighbor right across the street. We lived on Walnut Drive. Right across the street was Jeff's house. And Jeff and my brother were the same age and the same grade. And they were in the scouts since they were six years older than me. They were in the Boy Scouts ahead of me. and this was their scout leader.

And their scout leader also happened to be a lieutenant in the sheriff's department. So, you know, he always had his gun. He wore a badge. Next to my father, you know, he's who I looked up to the most and respected. And I loved the guy, you know. And that's the thing with abuse, man. It's usually people you know, like 95% are someone who knows. who knows you. It's not the stranger on the corner, the troll under the bridge. It's people you know.

And that's where the whole mind screw element comes in is, you know, because you love and trust this person and then they betray you. Now, with your brother being older at the time and you had said he was abused, he had never confided in you that that was going on? No, you know, and that's part of abuse is just the shame of it. You know, especially when it's male on, It just, oh, my God, dude, you know, it messes with your sexuality, how you view it. It messes with just every thought, like the shame. And it's just so hard to talk about, especially when it's male on male. It's just like because then and as you get older, then it's like you don't want people to think you're gay or or why didn't you speak up. Did you like it?

You know, I get I get these internet trolls. They're like, oh, you should have spoke up. I know what I would have done as a 10 year old kid getting raped. I would have spoke up instantly. It's like really, you know, you know exactly what you would have done as a 10 year old, huh? I also feel like it was a lot less known and talked about back than compared to today. Dude, this is in the 70s. Like priests were respected, boy scout leaders were respected, doctors, coaches, teachers,

like to talk ill about them. You were the bad kid, you know, and kids were meant to be seen, not heard. That was the motto back then, you know. And it's just you get locked in secrecy, bro, you know. And once it's already happens. And then the shame of it. And then they threaten you. And, you know, we'll go into what he did to keep me silent, but just the threats of physical harm.

How does it escalate from him just, you know, touching your scar and having that just like friendship-type relationship with you to bringing it to that next level? What triggers that? Yeah, bro. It took years. Like predators, pedophile predators, they're methodical. And he just, you know, like every year, you know, that I got older, he would push the envelope a little more. I don't know how many kids at once were in his pipeline at various stages of the grooming process. So with me being six, he's, you know, taking his time and, you know, he's.

just, you know, when I, when I survived this open heart surgery, my parents were so proud of me. They used to have me show my scar to all their friends to, like, normalize it. And everybody would have to give me a quarter. So like, you know, I'm collecting quarters all the time, you know. And so he was one of their friends. You know, a predator has to befriend the family. They have to win over the community, too. Like this guy was in every organization under the sun.

He was the chaplain at the American Legion. You know, so here's a guy raping little kids, and he's doing the prayer to start each session of the American Legion. He's in the Kiwanis Club. Kwanis Club is for the betterment of children in your community. Like, how much evil can that be? Like, you join this club, which is for the betterment of children, just so you could find children to molest. He was an honorary member of Boys Town out in Nebraska. Boys Towns loaded with abuse stories out there.

He was on the historical society of our little town of Stowarder. You know, it's like all the old ladies just loved him. So they hide in plain sight. You know, they blend right in. And that's what he did, you know. So he just took his time, you know, touched my scar. I didn't think anything of it. He told me, you know, this is our little secret. I'm like, sure, you know. First, he offered me a quarter to see my scar. This is three months,

three or four months after the surgery. So this is like right off the rip. This guy, you know, just he sees an in and he goes for it. Now, so my family was all out back. I was in watching TV. He came to the front door, I let them in. I got a quarter to see your scar, little buddy. So I'm like, sure, collect my quarter. He's like, how about I give you a dollar if you let me touch it? I've never seen a scar so raised as yours. I'm like, sure.

So he's touching my scar and gives me a dollar. And this is our little secret. We can't be friends if you can't keep a secret. And predators get stopped in their tracks if you don't keep a... Secrets are what keep them going. You know, they live for secrets. If a child stops keeping the secret, they're done. And that's why I tell every parent, like, drill it into your child's head that no adult should ever ask you to keep a secret.

There's no reason, whether it's a parent. Like, why is a mother or a father asking their child to keep a secret from the other parent? It should never happen. So secrets. And then it progressed to giving inviting me down at, he did all his like work on me, you could say, down at the dam area of the lake. So like it was out of the watchful eye of my parents. And back then, as soon as you could ride a bike, you were told to be gone, get out, play, get dirty, and be home at dinner time.

So, like, people are like, you're telling me at six, seven years old, you could be going all day. And I'm like, yeah, that's how it was back then, you know. And so the lake area became his trolling ground. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th, the powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th, and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church. on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamava Theater.com. Only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary.

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At that age, what did a secret mean to you? A secret meant that I was like his buddy. You know, like we had something between us. We had a bond between us. And it was like, and he put. played it up like it was me and him against the world, you know, and for him to be a sheriff, you know, lieutenant and to have a gun and a badge and at nine years old, invite me into his truck down at the lake to give me a beer, like, like hop in my truck and we'll have a beer.

You know, I got a six pack of butt in there. I like that was like the greatest thing in the world. And he's like, I could get in a lot of trouble if you told anybody I was giving you beer. And in my head, I'm thinking, why would I want to? ruined this. Like, I'm getting to have a beer with the lieutenant. This is great. You know, not thinking, I'm thinking with my little nine-year-old brain and he's thinking with his adult brain and he's just thinking, you know, I got this kid trapped. Like, I got him on the hook. And then, you know, it was showing me pornography. And then it was just telling me like,

just one idiotic story after another. You know, like he said he went on a trip and he met the Marlboro Man. The Marlboro Man was on the back of every magazine back in the day and he was quintessential cool, you know, a cigarette dang on out of his mouth and his cowboy hat on. And he said he met the Marlboro Man, which is a character, not a real person, you know. And he said, between you and me, little buddy, The Marlboro man shared with me that he's gay. And it didn't bother me in the least.

You know, he was the coolest guy. We hung out for three straight days and had a great time. You know, I just loved the guy. So, like, whether he even met the guy or not, whether the Marlboro man was gay or not, why is he telling, you know, a nine, ten-year-old this story? It's to, like, normalize homosexual behavior, you know, like, and to gauge my reaction to it. You know, like all these guys had the same playbook back in the day. They still have it, you know, like, you know, alcohol, drugs, pornography,

and you'd have to initiate touch at some point. And, you know, like, I see somebody tussle a young kid's hair, and it just sends a shiver down my spine. Because to the normal person, it's harmless. But if you've had any experience with a pedophiles, file, that tussle of the hair is them trying to initiate touch. And that tussle of the hair will go to a pat on the knee. And then from a pat on the knee, it'll go to a pat on the thigh. And then it'll escalate from there. Do you think his friendship with your parents prevented you from speaking out to

your friends or family? I think, I think like it took so many years and he just made you feel comfortable. There was really nothing. Like, am I going to speak it? Like I said, am I going to speak out that he showed me pornography? Am I going to speak out that he gave me beer in his truck? Am I going to speak out about him telling me he met the Marlboro man? The man's gay. Like, all right, big deal, you know? So, like, you know, and this is just years of this type of stuff. And it's a secret. Every single thing was a secret between us. And then when he finally takes it to the next level, it's already too late. I mean, I've been in that snare without even realizing I was trapped in his snare.

Like, he's got me. And I'm so gullible and loving towards this guy. I don't even know he's got me until he actually has me. How old were you when that happened? Well, he started wrestling matches at around 10. And I can't tell you how many wrestling matches. But he would always have a reason to get me over to his house to feel comfortable there. Always give me beer.

Always have candy and gum to cover my breath, you know, weather in his truck down at the lake at his house. So the wrestling matches, you know, maybe half a dozen of those. And then the next thing was him performing oral sex on me. And then the next thing was him raping me. And it's just like he had elaborate stories for those occasions. And it's not like, you know, it's not like my abuser was a family member where I'm living with them and it's happening every day or every week. You know, it could be it could be weeks, months before I would see him again, you know. And after he did the oral sex thing and masturbated himself, you know, I might not have seen him for three to six months.

I don't know. And then the next thing I see him, he's got this elaborate story that he needs my help with. And we're going to go to his house and practice this whole scenario he has set up. I don't even want to go into this scenario. It was just ridiculous. But it was a summer day. I had just graduated sixth grade. And we went to his house and his house was absolutely boiling inside.

Like, I don't know if he had cranked up his heat that day. I don't know what he did. But his house was like way hotter than outside. And he, you know, given me glasses of Blackberry brandy as a 12-year-old, you know, chug that. Here, let me fill it up again. Chug it again with Budweiser beer. And it just led to being in his bedroom, being on his bed. It's too hot.

Let's take our shirts off. Let's take our pants off. And he's behind me, puts me in a bear hug, and starts raping me. And I'm crying and screaming and crying and screaming. And this piece of garbage whispers in my ear during my cries and screams just another minute. just another minute so he can make sure he finishes himself off. And during those cries and screams, he had a dog. And his dog heard me crying and screaming and started howling and howling. And when we got done, he sat me down on his kitchen table and brought his dog up to me. And he said,

I want to show you what will happen to you if you ever opened your mouth about what just occurred. And he just started beating his dog and beating his dog and beating his dog and beating his dog. And I'm screaming bloody murder for him to please stop. And he wouldn't stop. His eyes would go black. And I thought maybe I used to imagine that when he would go into his predator mode. like he was fun and outgoing and laughing and then when he went into predator mode his eyes would blacken and you know over the years i thought maybe i just like as a young kid imagine that and then when i started

interviewing guests after guest on my show and they would be like and then his eyes went black i'm like what did you just say and they're like yeah his eyes like dilated and went black i'm like so did my predator And then the next person came in and it was like, and then his eyes went black. I'm like, you too? They're like, yeah. And it was male-female, like both saying that. And so I don't know what's chemically occurring in them when they go into attack mode. But his eyes would dilate.

And so he beats his dog until it lays out a clump at my feet. And that's what will happen to me if I open my mouth. So what am I supposed to do as a 12-1? year old who just got raped, just saw this guy's dog get beat either to death or unconscious in front of me. And I got this hulking 250 to 60 pound guy who's threatening to do the same to me. In the hours after these incidents, what's going through your mind? What are you doing? How are you feeling?

And are you talking to anyone? Not necessarily about the incident, but just in general. He dropped me off back down at the lake community. I had my bike in the back for his truck each time. And where the dam is at the lake is where like all the kids would congregate. And he would drop me off. And I took my bike. This is after the rape, I remember.

I ran across the ball field and I ditched my bike in the weeds. and I ran down the river and I was just like rocking, holding myself, rocking back and forth along the river and just trying to let the water, the sound of the river, like try to calm me down and soothe me. And my mind, which thought it was protecting me and helping me, really did me a disservice because my mind said right along right along that river that day it said we are never going to talk about this talking about it is reliving it and we are never going to relive what just happened and uh and that was it you know so I buried this down deep you know like it was tortuous for me as a kid because like I said my mother worked in the library you know so

So this happened that summer before I go to seventh grade at the high school and where my mother's working. And every day I had to crank on a smile. You know, you become a chameleon and you just blend in. And my teachers love me. My classmates loved me. And I would always have that smile on for mom, hiding what's really going on behind closed doors. Almost immediately I started smoking weed. You know, like, I didn't know how to cope with the thoughts I was having, with the feelings I was having.

And, you know, so three months prior when I was still in sixth grade at the elementary school, the thought of smoking weed was like way, way outside of my realm of possibilities. And yet now I got all this trauma I'm trying to deal with. and I'm in this high school setting and I meet up with older kids and I start smoking weed on a regular basis. Did your parents take notice to that or are they just chalking it up to kids being kids, part of life? Well, I come home one day. I had this little safe in my room. It was like a foot tall, you know, like maybe 10 inch. Say it was a 12 by 12 safe. And it was so flimsy. Like if you just pulled real hard on the hands, You could just pull the ears. The ears would bend that were holding it.

And there had to be reason that my father went into my room and searched my room, like, you know, like you just said. Or am I pulling it off? You think you're pulling it off. But I come home from school one day and sitting on my bed is my bag of weed and rolling papers and a pipe that I would smoke out of. And I walked into my bedroom that day. And I was like, oh, boy. Like, and my father followed in behind me.

And, you know, and I tell everybody, you know, my father missed a golden opportunity to, like, have a heart to heart with me. And I urge all parents, you know, like if your son or daughter, you know, their behavior has suddenly changed. don't don't don't take the disciplinary tack you know try to this is a golden opportunity to open up lines of communication my father you know being old school took the disciplinary intact and said i am not putting up a discrep i am not going through with you what i just went through with your brother my brother was six years older and my brother was crazy why was he crazy well from what happened to him And drinking age was 18 back then. So like my brother would be in high school and football practice.

After football practice, they'd all go to the bar and get bombed. And always in fights. And so now, you know, here I am 12 years old. And my father finds weed and paraphernalia. And he's threatened to send me to military school. He's like, I already researched a military school right outside of Philadelphia, and I find this crap again, and that's where you'll find yourself. It's like, I'm already clammed up. I'm already keeping secrets, and then my father took that approach, and it just locked me up even more.

Do you think if he did have that heart to heart with you, you would have opened up and broke the secret? I would like to think so. but he also two times that I can remember he sat me down and asked me my abuser's name was Dennis Pegg and the first time he sat me down was probably about a year after I was raped and he sat me down he said son I want to ask you something he said I can't believe the rumors I'm hearing about Dennis. And Dennis liked to call himself the mentor of young boys. And my father said, Dennis, now Dennis worked in the jail, the county jail. The sheriff's department runs the county jail. And he was a lieutenant in the county jail. And he would take young male inmates, most of them who

were in there for drug addiction, home to his house to mentor them. And, and he would take young male inmates. And, And in the middle of the night, he would like pounce on them. I'm sure some of them he got his way with and others ran out of his house in the middle of the night and hitchhiked through our little town of Stillwater. And when they would get picked up, they would tell the Stillwater resident, like, this guy offered me to get me back on my feet. I just got out of jail. And in the middle of the night, he's like trying to rape me, trying to molest me. And so that spread like wildfire around our town and my father caught wind of it. And that's when he sat me down.

He told me what he was hearing. And he said, did Dennis ever touch you? And I just, I couldn't bring myself to tell him. I said, no, Daddy's never touched me. And I've done a lot of crazy stuff in life. A lot of stuff when you're high on drugs you do and you just look back and you're like, God, but that's really the only regret I have is that I told my father no back then, you know, because if I could have opened up and told him, you know, my life would have, you know,

gone in a whole new direction. What happened with those allegations at that point? Was there an investigation? Yeah, and that's the other thing. Like, in my, in my, let's, I'm probably 13 now. In my mind, I'm thinking he's done. Like, how can you, how can a lieutenant stand outside? to jail and take newly released inmates home.

Like, I'm thinking, that can't be allowed. And then, you know, then like waiting, like, just waiting month after month for my father to come with news that Dennis has been arrested. Dennis is in jail. And it never happened. And then probably when I was around 15, my father sat me down again. And a lady from our town worked at the local. Dunkin' Donuts and my father went in for a coffee and her son was a classmate of mine.

And she told my father how her son was raped and abused by Dennis Pegg and that they had filed charges. And I'm like, fantastic. You know, and my father this time said something to me. He said it a little different when he sat me down. He said, son i'm going to ask you a question but before you answer i just want you to know you'll never have to go to the police you'll never have to testify in court i'll take care of this myself i just want to know if dennis has ever touched you inappropriately so to me he's telling me he's going to go kill dennis and as tempting as that was like i didn't want to be responsible for something going wrong. And my dad either getting killed or my dad going to prison.

And again, I just told him, no, he's never touched me, dad. And, you know, there's a whole host of reasons why children don't speak up about abuse, you know, but, you know, my parents viewed me as the golden child for surviving that operation. And I didn't, I didn't want to go from the golden child. to the abused, wounded, damaged child. And I just said no to him each time. What happens after that? Does he get arrested? No, no.

I didn't know until later on. But he methodically went into the Dunkin' Donuts. That lady started working the graveyard shift. So he would go in there after midnight, and he would be the only one sitting at the counter in the Dunkin' Donuts. And he would threaten her life and threaten her son's life if they didn't pull the charges. And eventually they pulled the charges. Did he physically get arrested at that point? So she made a complaint they were investigating and nothing ended up happening.

And after I got arrested. the prosecutor ran a dual investigation on me and on him. And he uncovered two other stories from back in that time frame where Boy Scouts, two separate Boy Scouts at different times, you know, but within a year or two or three of each other, came home from weekend jamborees with the scouts where they go, you know, for a weekend camping. And they had hickies all over their body. and like the parents saw them with their shirt off or like, what are those marks? And they told the parents. And in the one case, the mother took the son right to the state police, filed charges.

The next morning, the father went in there and pulled the charges and said, I don't want my son being labeled gay. And in the other case, the parents went in and filed charges and a short while later the prosecutor said the charges were recanted because their son

was too damaged to testify. Now when they filed charges all three of them does Peg get pulled in right away? I'm not sure. But charges, so there was a minimum of three children

that went forward back then and filed charges. In another case I was told by someone in the state police that they put together a file on Dennis Pegg involving another boy and the state police went to the prosecutor's office, gave the file to the prosecutor, and it never saw the light of day. Whether the prosecutor didn't think there was enough evidence or whether it was just shuffled under the rug to protect him.

I can't answer that. Do you think his position of power enabled him to continue to do this for so long and get away with it? 1,000 percent, absolutely. You know, like I said, you know, it's usually people, people know, know, and trust. And back in that day, like, you know, it's just, it's too easy to point it off on their bad kids, you know, just making stuff up. You know, you can't make stuff up when you have a hickey on your body. But people gave him the benefit of the doubt, you know, like these people getting picked up hitchhiking, you know, well, they were drug addicts anyway, you know. They were probably trying to extortem or something.

Who knows? But, yeah, he got the benefit of the doubt by being a lieutenant, absolutely. After the allegation started coming out the first time, did he continue to see you? or were you old enough where you weren't seeing him anymore? What happened is that Christmas, so the rape happened, you know, the summer before. That Christmas I got given a dirt bike. And there was a bunch of older kids in the lake community that rode dirt bikes. And I just started hanging out with them and never going back down to that damn area.

So, like, I avoided that at all costs. And, you know, he was, he would always come over for the holidays. My parents owned a restaurant back then, and they'd put on these big Sunday night dinners. He would always stop by for that. So it's not like he's out of my life, but there's no one-on-one interaction. And, you know, so after that, that rape, I don't recall. Crack a Cayman Jack Margarita and taste your escape. It's America's number one for a reason.

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Epglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglus, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about Evglis and visit Epglus. Lily.com or call 1-800 LilyRX or 1-800 545-9-9. Ever being one-on-one with him again. So what happens in your life? Do you go off to college? Do you graduate high school? Yeah, I mean, in high school, you know, like, you know, like I said, I start smoking weed.

I abandoned like studies, sports. Just can't apply myself. I was smart enough to be able to do zero work and get C's occasional B. and that was fine by me. In high school, my brother had given me his expired paper license back in the day. Like I said, drinking age was 18 when he was, you know, in high school. And when his, they didn't have photo IDs back then. It was just a paper license. And when his expired, he handed it to me.

He was like, hey, maybe you can get served with this. And sure enough, I got served. So like drinking alcohol. became readily available in high school. And, you know, that was my coping mechanism, you know, just drinking. And a month after graduating high school, I got a drunk driving. All my friends got drunk driving. And my parents were like pounding into me. Like, you know, like you're pushing the envelope. You're pushing the envelope. It's going to happen to you if you don't stop. And I was like, no, no, no. It happened to me.

And, and I went off to college, like, just wanting to get away from that area. I went up to Boston to college at Northeastern University. And, you know, I got my little entourage outside the door here, and my roommate from college is here. And the girl I met in college, he married her roommate. So she's here. And, you know, so. I go off to college and just tried cocaine for the first time in college, loved it. You know, it was an instant love affair.

Like, this is great, you know, because I was an insecure kid. You know, one because, you know, like in predators, you know, like, they're like sharks smelling blood in the water. You know, like, he could tell I was insecure because of my scar. My scar made me different from all the other kids. And he picked up on it, you know. And by befriending me, you know, it was, you know, we're buddies, you know, so you don't have to worry about feeling insecure with me, you know. And so Coke took away the insecurities.

It made me even more outgoing, you know, more just feeling on top of the world. It wasn't something I had enough money for in college to do that regular. and that would be very sporadic. But drinking heavily in college, blackout drunk three, four nights a week. I had my studies down to a science where I could, I would avoid everybody for, you know, three, four days a week and go to the study hall, the L Center, study in there. And then I could be a blackout drunk, you know, the other three, four days of the week. And that's where I met the love of my life was in that L center.

I was sitting at a four-man thing by myself. And she just plopped down and just won me over. And, you know, we were having a keg party the next weekend. I invited her and she showed up. And we were off to the races, you know. So but she would say like we'd be lying in bed together. And like, you know, like guys that come back from fighting in wars get that thousand miles stare. And she would say I'd be lying in bed and have that thousand mile stair going.

And she'd be like waving her hand in front of my eyes and there'd be nothing. And she'd like punch my shoulder and be like, where are you at right now? Where did you just go? And I'm like, what are you talking about? And she's like, you just left me. Like, like, what's in that head of yours? And like, you know, again, like I didn't want to. be the damaged kid to my parents who viewed me as the golden child, I didn't want to be

anything less than the wild, crazy party animal boyfriend she had. I didn't want to be the wounded duck, you know, with a broken wing who's been raped and abused, you know, I just, uh, I didn't, I certainly, if I couldn't tell my parents, I certainly couldn't tell her, you know, so I just played it off. I don't know what you're talking about. Um, We go through college and, you know, there's no cell phones back in a day. She's living in the city. I'm living in New Jersey. I'd go in for a weekend here or there, disappear for three weeks, show back up, you know.

We'd have a great weekend, disappear. And eventually, after six months to a year of that, she's like, what do we do? bro you know like I thought we were going to get our life started and uh you know this this this piece of garbage you know like affected every aspect of my life and it affected me being able to commit back then like I couldn't do it like I could have sex no problem I could tell her I loved but I couldn't like be intimate not when you're harboring deep secrets within and I just told her I go, I can't do it. I can't get married.

You know, like, I couldn't hold down a long-term career. I couldn't hold down a job. I couldn't hold down a romantic relationship. It just made me feel trapped. It's not that I equated. Trapped is how I was in that guy's house. Trapped is how I was in that guy's truck. Trapped is how I was for years with his methodical grooming.

and subconsciously feeling trapped in a job and a relationship would just bring on anxiety and shortness of breath and uncomfortable feeling and I couldn't do it and I just told her I can't do it. You know, it's not that I equated it to what happened to me. It's just like, no, I can't, I can't be trapped in a marriage, no way. and and she goes, I got to leave you then. And like, and it haunted me, you know, that I, that I let her get away. And so now I'm off to, I'm off to the races now in my 20s. And it's just one job after another, one relationship after another.

My mind said, if we sleep with enough women, you know, we'll feel like a man. And so I just became like, you know, like, I got to sleep with women. I got to sleep with women. I got to sleep with women. and I hurt a ton of women in my 20s. And by the time I got to my third, by the time I was 30, like I was like a shell, man. You know, like just living that way, not caring who you hurt. And it just made me, it made my trauma even worse that I was carrying inside.

It just fueled it. How often would you think about what happened to you throughout your 20s? you should have been a therapist because my first therapist asked me that that was I'm learning yeah yeah yeah and she she phrased it as um in your 20s and 30s how often did you think about what happened to you and I had to sit and think for a minute and I'm like not that often Like, I didn't equate the party lifestyle I adopted to the abuse. I didn't equate this biological need to sleep with as many women as possible to the abuse. I didn't equate that I can't keep a job more than two years to having been abused.

I just figured, you know, I'm a free bird. I'm a wild and crazy dude. This is just who I am. It is what it is, you know. So it's there would be a, there'd be something, you know, maybe that would trigger thoughts back to it. But it's not like I actively thought with everything going on in my life that it's all about abuse related. I just didn't think that way. I think you have to be like extremely self-aware to be able to analyze that.

And most of us aren't, especially at that age. I mean, I look at everything I did, and that was based on certain things that happened to me and decisions I made, you know, in high school, especially with business. And that kind of affected everything that would happen later on in life, but I never realized it at the time. Right. Yeah. Same exact thing. Right. I just, you know, there was no sitting quietly for me.

Like, I try to tell everybody. I've had the most exhausting life. You know, and what was done to me prevents me from getting a good night's sleep still. Like, when you always have to be on guard, your internal clock is always on guard. You know, it just doesn't allow you to get good rest. And so I've never had good rest. I've always been hyper-vigilant, you know, always on guard. I never sat quietly with myself and just like you said analyzed my behavior like who wants to do that

like I'm trying to stay one step ahead of my pain my pain is in there like just like if you slow down I'm going to grab you bro so I'm like all right we're not slowing down you know we're going to keep this pedal pushed at all times and it was just a fast exhausting life at all times, man. What happens in your 30s? You'll like this. In my 30s, I need, you know, when you have trauma and it's unresolved, you're, and you feel uncomfortable, anything that anxiety, depression, anything that makes you feel uncomfortable, you become a pleasure seeker. Like, you want that uncomfortable feeling to go away immediately. And my whole life, that's all I did was pleasure seek. Like, oh, I'm not feeling good.

We're going to pleasure seek. And so women now, they're not having the same desire. It's any drug over time, you need more, more, more, more, more, more for the same desired effect. And women were a drug for me. And they're not having the same desired effect. So now I need something new. And I find that in gambling. And I go to the casinos. and, you know, and this isn't, you know, this isn't to brag or, you know, I'm not boasting. Like, I had an amazing, incredible run in the casinos for years. Like, I'm making $700 a week. And there was times, I had a suitcase filled with hundreds of thousands of dollars in chips and cash.

I had, I, I, at, my biggest, win was 153,000. And that was after having lost three huge rolls of the dice for like tens of thousands each. So I was like 250 plus lost these three huge hands, three rolls of the dice. And like, all right, I'm getting it. And I came home, I came home with a hundred thousand dollar check, 10, 20,000 in cash and the rest in chips. You know, so like I would win tens of thousands. I also lost, you know, my biggest lost was $75,000, you know. Like, and I'm making $700 a week, bro.

Like, but I had, I started off. I won 1,700 first time I went. I won 2,200. And then I, like, studied black jacking craps after that. I'm like, because people were yelling at me. the table. Like, you got to double down. You got to do it. I'm like, I'm not getting yelled that ever again when I go back there. So like, I took like the next six months and just got five decks of cards, played in my bedroom, read all these books, got dice, learned what to do.

And I go back there and the same thing happens. Like it was like one 17,000, one almost 30,000. And, you know, now I'm getting all the comps I want, one 55,000. And that was like the next five times, you know, it was like 17,000, 30,000, 55,000, 50,000, 30,000. And, you know, my stockpiles building up, you know, that suitcase is like smiling at me. And that was, you know, that was for years, that was what I did now as my coping mechanism. somebody told me I got all this money and somebody's like, you know, as long as you deposit under $10,000 into your bank, you know, it doesn't notify the IRS. I'm like, ah, cool. So dummy me is every week, you know, 9500, 9,800, 9,700, 9,700, 9,300. There's also laws for that if you're trying to skirt that $10,000 rule.

and it sends a flag to the IRS. And I have a deputy from the IRS Criminal Investigation Bureau come to my house and leave his gold embossed card in my mailbox with the mail. And on the back of it, it says, Mr. Frederick's call me immediately. And I'm like, oh, boy, this can't be good. And, you know, they wanted to charge me with money laundering. And I got full audit. That was like a nightmare. Like I had to get every casino slip I could find and every bank deposit, every withdrawal, every you name it.

And so that went on for a while to satisfy them. And I didn't get charged. but eventually like you know like like with the women you know you need you need more women more women well like waiting waiting for the weekend to get here to go back to the casinos like I got that stretched during a week where I'm uncomfortable bro and like I'm a pleasure seeker and I need I need a vice you know like and the local shot in beer joint we went to their liquor distributor was uh ran a sports betting you know or had new guys that were in the sports betting ring and the uh owner knew about all my winnings like i didn't go bragging around but i would take

friends down to gamble with me and they would see what i'm winning and losing and then they would come back and tell everybody like holy smokes clark just won 80 thousand dollars like it was insane. And so like it's spread around. So the owner's like pulls me aside. He's like, yeah, bro, it's like I told the, you know, the liquor salesman, you know, about you. And they're going to give you an open line of credit and no ceiling. Like you can bet, you want to bet $50,000 a game, they'll let you. And that was like perfect for me. You know, so like now I can have action every night of the week and keep my mind distracted from what's inside of me, that monster in there, you know. And let's just say sports betting didn't work out good, Ian.

I was, within six months, I was flat broke. My beautifully overstuffed briefcase with all those hundreds of thousands, gone. I had to liquidate two stock things. Gone. And I wasn't done. No, no. I'm like, I lost 20,000 and I didn't have the money. I was already liquidated. And I called up the line. And I said, hey, like, I got to move some money around. Is it all right if we carry this 20,000 over to next week and, you know, give me time to move my money around? For you, anything. I was like, great, thanks. So now I'm like, all right, I'm 20 in the hole. I got a, I got a wind. I got a wind. I got a wind. that back. Plus, I need money to gamble with. So, like, I really got aggressive with stupid bets and parlayes. And the end of the following week, I'm 77,000 in the hole to them. And I knew, then I knew

I was done. Like the 20,000, I wasn't ready yet. But when you're 77,000 in debt to the mob, then you're done. And like, I never met anybody. Like, I would drop my money off to the bar owner and I would pick up, you know, there was one week where I won $34,000, you know, and I went there and a bar owner had $34,000 for me. I was like, cool. You know, these guys are legit and they pay. So I never met anybody. And I just called up the number and I'm like, hey, bro, I got a problem. and he's like, yeah, what's up? I said, I'm tapped out. I got no money.

And I need to figure out how we can work this out. And the guy just like, he just sort of like, oh, boy, bro. He's like, this isn't my department. I'm just going to say good luck. And make sure you answer your cell phone when they call you. I was like, all right. And then it was off to the races in with a piece of sh-I don't know if you can swear on your show. Like just cursing me out.

I don't want to get you demonetized. No, you're good. So it was just, you M-Fer, you piece of crap, you piece of garbage. What they were really big on, they were big on two things. All right, three things. Go to family. you got to go to a family member because your life's in danger. You got to go to friends.

Like your friends, you know, they got to bail you out because, you know, you're going to end up getting killed over this. And the big one was, though, like, you got to go rob a bank. Like, dude, you got to rob a bank. Like, you get arrested and you get 10 years. You're better off than what we're going to do to you. Like, go rob a freaking bank. and that would be like like they'd be like you know just and they ended up calling family members got the number from my father they called my brother at his business I had already I didn't know

what to do like when they started threatening my life so I called gamblers anonymous I called the 1-800 gamblers anonymous hotline I told the lady on the phone how much in the hole I was to them and that they were threatening my life. And I said, I don't know what to do. And she said, stay by your phone. And she had the director for Gamblers Anonymous in New Jersey, Ed Looney, call me back personally. And he said, I'm going to take you to a meeting tomorrow night. It's a bunch of hardcore guys that had been in the mob that used to bet with the mob.

And they'll know what to do. So meet me at this meeting. I met him, told the guys my story, and they're like, look, you got to be a man about this. You got to come up with a payment plan. Let's go through your finances, what you can afford a month. And these guys are going to bitch and scream, no way, but you have to stick to your guns, that you're not running away, you're not going to the police, and you want to pay this off. And this is the only way you can pay it off.

And you just, they're like, and they're the ones who told me, they're going to, they're going to call your family. I go, how are they going to get my family's number? They're like, they're going to call your family members. Trust me on this. They have ways. So they're like, you've got to tell your family and tell your family not to pay any money that you're responsible for this and you'll take care of it. And so that's when I went to my family. And when they got the calls, you know, like my father, you know, when you got some guys screaming on the other line,

your son's a dead man if you don't pay this money for him. Yeah, that's, that's kind of tough for a father to take. When my brother got the same sort of message, like, you want to save your brother's life, you've got to pony up this money, bro, or else your brother's a dead man. And, you know, so everybody was scared for me. I got a shotgun in my pickup truck loaded that I'm driving around with. I got a baseball bat in my office. And this is a...

went on for months. Like when I told them, the gamblers guys came up with $500 a month for me to repay. And when I told the mob guys $500 a month, the guy went ballistic on the phone. He's like, do you have any clue who you owe this money to?

And I'm like, I've got a pretty good idea. He goes, no, you don't. He goes, if you knew you would not be making such an idiotic, you know, offer. He goes, if I go to my boss and tell him you're willing to pay $500 a month on $77,000, which doesn't even cover the juice we're going to be charging you, he goes, you're going to put my life in danger. He goes, I can't even go to my boss and tell him that because they'll still think I lost my

mind. And, you know, the very last phone call I got when I answered, All they said is you're a fucking dead man and hung up. Didn't ask for money. Didn't just you're a fucking dead man. And I was like, I mean, I was already on guard. Like how much more I already thought I was a dead man. I thought I was a dead man walking.

And, you know, living out in the hills out in the country where I did, you know, like anybody would stick out like in that rural area at least, you know, around my. house, you know, going to work was a different thing. That was when I was really on guard. Walking out of my house to get my truck in the morning, I was, you know, always looking around, you know, like I'd be up in the kitchen window, like looking around all the trees and stuff before I went out. So it was hell. And a couple months go by. And one day I get a phone call and a guy says, he's a special agent with the FBI. And he tells me he's coming by my business at a tire retreading shop. And he goes, I'm going to be at your tire retreading store in Newton on Thursday morning,

or on Thursday afternoon at 3 o'clock. And he goes, I suggest you be there. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, bro. What's this about? And he goes, I'm sorry, I can't discuss anything on the phone. Thursday, 3 o'clock, be there. click. And like, I was doing Coke and I'm like, is the FBI like watching my drug dealer's house? You know, like, I'm buying a gram. Like, they're going to pinch me on a gram of Coke.

It just didn't make any sense. Like, and it had been a couple months since that last phone call of you're a dead man. I wasn't even putting two and two together. And when the guy shows up, I was waiting out in my truck. Like, I wasn't going to wait in my office. So I wanted to see who pulled in. And it was obviously an FBI guy. Like he had to look, you know, the glasses, the suit, the car. And so I went up to him on the sidewalk. And he goes, you waiting out here on purpose? I go, yeah. I go, I don't know who you are. He's like, I was smart. So we went inside. And he tells me, he's like, we have a confidential informant inside one of the major crime families. He told me which one. And he's like, that informant has told us.

there's a hit put out in your life for a gambling debt. And I was like, yeah, I'm like, I go, I've been getting threatened for a while. I'm like, you're just making it real now, you know, you know, like I go, it's been a couple months since my last phone call. And he's like, they wanted me to wear a wire. I was like, I go, are you out of your mind? Like, I'm not going to wear a wire? like compound my problem by by wearing a wire. I go absolutely not.

He's like, all right. He goes, even though it's been two months since you heard from them, they're not going to go away, especially over that amount. He's like, in our informant says, you know, there's a hit. He's like, so here's my card. You can call me if things get too hot for you. And that was that. And, you know, that was like, you know, that jolt you awake when the FBI says there's a hit on your life. and then you're supposed to say well how are you sitting here Clark

you don't even have to talk anymore yet and I got your questions those are the best interviews the audience would rather me not talk the guys in the Gamblers Anonymous as month after month after month I went to Gamblers Anonymous for a couple years like I loved it Like, there was just interesting dudes and women in there. Just great stories.

And this is what they told me, what they surmise happened. They're like, when you're a big hitter like you were with your bets, they're like, the guys in the boiler room taking the bets, the guy, the head of it is probably acquainted with the mob related, you know, Might not be a made guy, but he's, you know, like in the system. The other people are just workers working in the boiler room. And the head guy was probably skimming your bets, like not even writing them down in the journal. Like, because, you know, the house is guaranteed to win.

So he's probably paying you out of his own money and then taking your money, you know, when it came in. in. And he's not a killer. You know, he's not a trained killer. The boss has the killers who would come after you, but he can't go to the boss to say anything because he's never probably turned your bets in. He's kept them. So all he can do is make threats unless he somehow wants to become a killer, which he's not. And so that's probably what happened, you know, is they were probably skimming and couldn't go to their bosses. So you've never heard it from them again. I know.

How many years ago was this? That was 25 years ago. Jeez Louise, lucky son of a gun. Yeah, man. In those years were the worst years of my life, bro. Hey, I've been in that position today. I find it all very relatable. Yeah, yeah.

But I have learned the same thing if someone's not a killer. They'll make all the threats they want, but, you know. And also it's like your, the other aspect of it, too, that I think a lot of people don't realize is so in your situation, it's imaginary money. They're not at a loss. It's not like you physically took money from them. Right. And even if you did physically take money from them, it's all dirty money, ill-gotten gains to begin with, you know? Like if you loan shark money from them, like it's all, what do they say, a fruit from a forbidden tree type of thing.

Right. You know, it's all, I think people in today's world are looking at that bigger picture. No matter how many threats they make, they're looking at that bigger picture. And is it really worth killing someone over that amount, too? And losing everything they have as well. It's a part of business. There's losses all the time. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, again, do you want to go away for the rest of your life for killing me? You know, like, you know, there's always. In the newspaper back then, there was always bus going on, you know, mob-related bus with gambling rings. Guys rounding up, 50 guys had a clip, you know. It was always happening. Did these guys get busted? I don't know.

But more than likely, it was what the Gamblers Anonymous guys said. I wrote a little song to remind you, Choice Hotels, gets you more of the experiences you value. The Cambria Hotel's got it all A rooftop bar have a ball Cocktails up here feel just right Is Cambria amazing All right Bring a date, your team or even your mom

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This is your home, coach. Home of the Save. Join for just $20 at BJs.com slash SW Fort Worth and save 10 cents a gallon on gas for six months. Now open, limited time offer new members only. BJ's Home of the Save. They were probably skimming your money and they weren't killers themselves, you know. Tell us how this all goes back to, your abuser.

Yeah. So let's fast forward a little to my 40s. I'm in a quick check deli. I don't know if you have any quick checks up here. You know, and I'm getting a coffee, and the front door opens and in walks my rapist. And by his side is a young boy about the age he raped me at. And that young boy, I heard him call my rapist the same nickname he used to make me call him. And that instantly just like ripped open all my childhood stuff.

This is 30 years past now. And it just all came flying up to the surface. And I just went into a complete panic attack. Just like, I couldn't catch my breath. I couldn't breathe. I just started sweating, getting really hot. Like my mind is swirling where I can't even think of anything, just going into a complete panic attack.

And he saw me. Now, this wasn't the first time he's seen me as an adult. But it had probably been 10 years since I saw him. And he yelled out to me when he walked in and saw me, hey Clark like we're best friends and like I know he's going to make his way over to me and like I'm going into this complete panic attack and I just leave all my stuff behind and I run out of the store we like bump shoulders as I'm running by him he's like yelling hey where are you going buddy and I get in my pickup truck I speed out of there and I go down the road I'm punching my steering wheel

I'm cursing, I'm spitting in my truck, and my life just dissolved that day. Within a month, I can no longer drag myself to go to work anymore. I dove headfirst, not knowing how to cope with all my trauma back at the surface, with this guy's image in the forefront of my mind. I just dove headfirst in the drugs and alcohol. A few years prior, I had hurt my back and got Vicodin for the first time and absolutely loved these things. And when the doctor cut me off, I just went on the street and was finding pain pills wherever I could get them. And I had a multi-year pain pill addiction.

And what a pedophile does to you is he robs you of your boundaries. your boundaries get stolen from you at a young age and you don't know what boundaries are anymore and I didn't know what boundaries were and one of the boundaries I set for myself is that I would never ever ever do heroin and yet I've got all this trauma bubbling to the surface when my pain pill addiction pain pills ran low and somebody said bro just stop fooling yourself like i got these little packets for five bucks like you're doing the same thing it's pharmaceutical heroin you're doing don't look don't look down at me thinking you're better than me because you're doing a pill and i'm doing a little back we're both doing the same crap and i was like yeah you got a point bro cough them up and i start doing heroin like just boundaries were shot bro and uh I lived for several months doing cocaine around the clock. Like I was buying ounces of Coke now.

I'm selling some and I'm doing some. And I'm doing, I'm taking Xanax, like tons of Xanax because I'm doing so much Coke around the clock. I'm paying pills or heroin, whatever I got. And I'm just a hot mess, man. And I wasn't, I wasn't like, actively saying I wanted to kill myself, but I just didn't care. And that's a scary point in life to get where you just don't care. Like I don't care if I live or die. It doesn't matter.

Like I got so much pain. Like one drug, you know, wouldn't numb me. Wouldn't numb me enough. I needed all these different drugs in my system just to try to stay sane. And, uh, a few months of living like that. I had a friend I lent money to, and it was the day of the Jerry Sandusky molestation trial. He was a coach out at Penn State, and he ran a boys camp and was molesting boys for well over a decade. And he was going to trial.

And I saw him on the news that morning, and I just like went ballistic in my bedroom. And I spent the day out drinking. And I had a friend meeting me that night to drop off, he was going to power wash the cedar siding on my house and stay in it. And he came that night. And earlier in the day, I had an encounter with a business guy who screwed me on a motorcycle deal.

And all my friends knew about about this guy. And, you know, he liked the playoff that he was in a biker gang. And, you know, he was big and tadded up. And, you know, he was in a restaurant. I went in at the end of the day to have a glass of red wine, like before I had to go meet my buddy at the house. And he's in the dining room having dinner with his family. and I hadn't seen him since our deal went south.

Like he cleaned out his shop in the middle of the night. I had already given him a $33,000 loan I took out to build me this custom tricked out bike. And he did that to me and a whole bunch of other people took all our money and cleaned his shop out in the middle of the night and was gone. And now I see him and I go up to him at his table and I'm like, Hey, Joe, when are you going to make good on that money you owe me? And he looks up at me and he goes, how dare you come up to me when I'm out to dinner with my family? I'm like, well, let's take this outside then, bro. Let's go outside and talk about this.

He's like, get the F away from me. And I go out of respect for your family. I'm going to leave, but you owe me that money, bro, and you're going to pay me. He just told me to F off. So I go home to meet my friend and I tell him about seeing that guy. And my friend goes to me, that guy's got to be number one on your hit list. And Ian, like, you know, like I was living hard, you know, since seeing that guy in it, I was living hard before seeing him. And then I really, like, for those months, like, just, like, I would get single-digit hours of sleep for the week.

Like, for this week, six hours of sleep. For the following week, maybe four hours. Like, just doing Coke nonstop. And you start getting baddie from not sleeping and hallucinating. Like I would see like black swirling stuff circling all around me. You know, whether I was close to death and it was, you know, demons actually wanting me or just my mind, I don't know. But like, I told my friend like, man, I see black swirling stuff in my room all the time, man. And so whatever it was that night, just lack asleep, just beaten down when my friend said that guy's got to.

be number one on your hit list. I just blurted out. He's number two. The piece of garbage that raped me as a kid is number one. My friend's looking at me like, and like, like time just stood still. And he's like, are you serious? I'm like, yeah. And he started asking me who he was, where it happened, you know, how it happened.

And within 15 minutes, I decided it was time to confront him. ever since seeing him with that boy in that deli for those next months, I was just fixated on that boy being a victim. Like, I just can't get it out of my head, you know, that he's where in the molestation grooming process is this kid? And I just said it's time to confront this piece of garbage. And 15 minutes later, after for the first time in my life of ever telling anyone, couldn't tell my girlfriend in college.

couldn't tell my father, couldn't tell anyone. I tell my friend and we're in his van driving to the guy's house. This guy had since retired from the sheriff's department, but he was still the firearms instructor for our county and for the county next to it, Morris County. And every every person in law enforcement has to get recertified each year. And they had to go to him for training and certification. So the guy was a complete gun nut. And I told my friend that, and I'm like, take a steak knife with you. So I handed him a steak knife. And I went to my bedroom and I didn't do this consciously. But as a Christmas gift one year, this guy gave me a knife sharpening stone kit, oil stone kit. And he taught me how to sharpen my Boy Scout knife on that

stone kit and how to get the fine blade. And I kept that Boy Scout knife always perfectly sharpened. And it was under my bed. And I grabbed it and out the door we went. He had a long driveway. We drove halfway up, up his driveway, got out, ran up. Front door was on. The front door was open, screen door was shut, and there he is sitting there watching TV in his living room. And it was like looking at the devil sitting in his lair. You know, what's a more accurate description of the devil? It's not some dude who's red with horns and a long tail and a pitchfork. It's someone who's in every club in the county, someone who's on the historical society,

someone who everybody loves and respects who's raping little boys. That's really pure evil and the devil. And that's what it looked like, the devil sitting in his lair. And I started to go into that instant panic attack. I hadn't been back at that house since he raped me. And before I could just freeze, like when he would touch me, I would freeze. You know, that's one of the responses you can have when you get molested is, fight, flight, or freeze. And for me, I froze. And I feel that like rigamortis coming on me.

And before it does, I march up to his front door. I rip open that screen door. I break it off to hinge. Here's a childhood victim of his, rape victim of his, standing in his doorway, who just broke his door off the hinge. And you would think, this is why I always urge people, don't waste your time confront him. your abuser. Like, you're never going to get the answer you want from them. They'll never let their guard down to admit what they've done. They can't. It's impossible for them. You would think this guy would have dropped to his knees in the prayer position and been like, Clark, forgive me for what I did. I know what I did was horrible. I know I'm sick.

I need help. Forgive me. Let's sit and talk. I know I wronged you. Anything like that. Instead, this idiot over his shoulder looks over at me, puts his arm up, goes, hey, how are you? And that was so infuriating, Ian. Like, that just sent me insane.

And we all have two faces. You know, the face, the pretty smiling face, you show me right here. And then that face behind closed doors. Well, my face behind closed doors was racked in pain and rage and violence and anger and hatred. And the face I showed the world was smiling and happy. no one really got to see my behind closed door face and I'm going to show it to him right now. And I go, how am I? Let me show you how the F I am.

And I marched across his room. He stood up and we just started going at it. I started slashing at him with the knife. He started punching me. And we're in a life or death fight right now. and at one point he squarely connects with a shot to my draw and I started to go down and I grabbed his shirt with my left hand to keep myself from falling down and I screamed you my MFer and I brought the knife down and I missed him. I put the knife right through my fist and stuck it into him that way. like went straight through and you can see the scar there it came out and uh my hand's now

useless like this is this is still you know they couldn't i severed all the ligaments and tendons and uh we continued on fighting at some point he slipped in both of our bloods i'm gushing blood out of this wound he's gushing blood and he's sort of like up against a wall when he slipped down. I turned to my friend. My friend was like wide-eyed in the doorway. And I wanted to be alone with this guy. And I turned to my friend. I go, go bring your van up here. And he left. And I looked my abuser right in the eye. And I said, it's not so fun raping little boys now, is it? And I slit his throat. And from there, I did one other thing. I walked over to the bedroom he raped me in and spit on the bed. And people want to know, did all my problems go away by killing my abuser?

Like, are you kidding me? Like, you don't heal from trauma, Ian, by adding more trauma. what I did was stop a lifelong pedophile predator from ever harming another child, but it didn't in any way heal me. You don't heal by adding trauma to trauma. And you don't heal by potentially spending the rest of your life in prison because that's what I got charged with first degree murder, 30 years to life. So like I have people that reach out to me that like every abuse, victim that has reached out to me. And I say this humbly. I'm their hero because I did what every one of

us fantasizes about is I killed our abuser. Like the pain of molestation and rape and childhood sexual abuse is so horrible that your mind can only think to even score by killing that person. And male, female, Republican Democrat, they all reach out and they want to do what I did. And I just tell them, look, it's not soothing. It's not therapeutic. It's not healing. And you potentially are going to spend your life in prison. And now, you know, you think your life is hell now with your abuse.

Go to prison and have to deal with your abuse for the rest of your life sitting in a prison cell. So I did it. So I'm in a position where I can tell people that it's not the route to go down. It's just instead, talk about it. Get a therapist. Don't hold secrets in. Get off of drugs and alcohol. Start exercising.

Eat healthy. Tell yourself you love yourself. You know, we hate ourselves. Abuse victims, hate ourselves. We can't even look ourselves in the mirror. You know, so you got to start to learn how to love yourself. You got to start to learn how to heal. So don't do what I did.

I was arrested the next day, charged for first. degree murder. How I got arrested is in the book. But I knew I was doomed by the wound I had. Like you can't just walk into a hospital and be like, yeah, I stuck a hunting knife through my hand trying to cut something. They'd be like, huh, really? And then I'm thinking like the cops are going to be like calling all the, because there's blood everywhere. The cops are going to be like, you know, we got two different blood types, you know, call all the hospitals. look for somebody seriously wounded. So I knew I was done. And my house gets surrounded the next morning.

My street was lined with 12, 15 cop cars. Detectives from the prosecutor's office were there with their guns out, state police with their guns out, hiding behind trees, rock walls, my shed. I get ordered out on a bullhorn. you know, Mr. Frederick's coming out of the house with your hands up. And one thing I did, you know, we need a little levity after that. I had a buddy from high school who was a state trooper. And I saw him a couple months earlier in a bar. And he's like, hey, man, come out to the car. I got some shirts and hats. He goes takes them. So I'm like, cool. So I took a couple shirts,

a hat. And I went into my room and I put on my state police shirt. I'm like, this should get me out of this. And I walked out of the house. I chugged a glass of wine and I walked out of the house hoping I would get shot on my front step when I walked out. I asked God. I had no faith when I got raped. I had been an altar boy in the Episcopal church and I did away with God after that. And I asked God to have one of these cops kill me when I stepped. out. I'm like, I'm walking to my front door. I'm just sitting there waiting, you know, before I walked out and I'm like, I'm done. I'm done. God. Like, just have one of these guys take me out. It's over. And I stepped out. They ordered me down on my front lawn, spread eagle,

handcuffed, taken away to the state police barracks. And in there, I met an amazing lieutenant from the state police, this guy, Howie Ryan. And he quite possibly saved me from dead. And he, decades in prison because first thing he did when he came into my hold and so he ran the CSI team that investigated peg's house so I'm at I'm at the barracks his team was finishing up at the house he came to the barracks and first as soon as he walked in he said I want to apologize to you I go what are you apologizing to me for bro he's like I've heard rumors about this scumbag for a long time. He goes, but I can't arrest somebody on rumors. He goes, I need victims and I need facts. And whatever he did to shut you victims up prevented us from arresting him. He goes,

and I apologize. And he left the room. And when he was telling me this, I felt really good about it. And then when he left, I got like fuming. I'm like, everybody knew. The state police knew about this guy. Everybody knew about this guy. And yet, I just flushed my life away to put an end to him. Somebody had to stop this monster. And I guess I had to do it. And I just forfeited my life. Howie Ryan came back in another time, you know, they got to take pictures of you. They got to strip you naked. They got to check you for tattoos, all that crap. And then when he came in the third time, he he said look bro two of my detectives are in an interrogation room with a detective from the prosecutor's office and you're going to get pulled out of here in a couple minutes and taken into that room he goes I got you

he he said the term seven ways to sunday he goes I got you seven ways the sunday your blood's all over that crime scene you've got a knife wound through your hand he goes it's over this isn't a who done it. He goes, but that doesn't mean your life is over. He goes, if you go into that room and you open your mouth, it very well could be over. He goes, I'm telling you right now, go in there, request the lawyer, exercise your Fifth Amendment rights, and keep your fucking mouth shut. He goes, do you understand me? And I'm like, I go, yeah, but I don't have a lawyer. He goes, I'm going to take care of that. He goes, I'm calling a lawyer right now for you. And he's going to send over paperwork to represent you. I was like, who's my lawyer? And he tells me George Daggett. And I'm like,

okay. And he leaves, and he walks out of the holding cell, and he tells me later on after we met in person, you know, like, I went out there. I called George Daggett on his cell phone. I said, hey, George, I got somebody here in custody who I need you to send over paperwork ASAP, like immediately that you're his lawyer representing him. And he goes, what's his name? And I said, Clark Fredericks. And he goes, what do he do? He goes, he murdered someone. And George goes, I see. Paperwork will be there in two minutes.

And he faxed it right over. And a couple minutes later, I get taken into that interrogation room. And they're like, Mr. Frederick's, why don't you tell us what happened? I go, I refuse to say anything without my lawyer present. And they're like, who's your lawyer? I go, George Daggett. And they're like, is that really how you want to handle it? this and I said, yep.

And they're like, all right. And they called somebody to take me back to the holding cell. And then Howie went in with the paperwork and handed him George Daggett's retainer. And they're like, how to F did you get this, Howie? No, howie, howie's lieutenant, you know. And he's like, George, George faxed it over. Who to hell got a hold of George? He goes, I did.

What the hell are you calling George for, for him? He goes, he has the right to a lawyer. I just got him exercise that right for him. And they're like, this stinks, Howie. This is dirty. The prosecutor's office guy was saying that because George was like the bane of the prosecutor's office. Like he always brought cases against them. And so, and I didn't even end up picking George as my attorney.

I picked another guy. But that's how he saved me from, you know, because I was broken. I was done. Like, I forfeited the rest of my life. So whatever. I'll go in there and tell you. Like, because in my mind, I'm not getting out from this. It's over.

What ends up happening? So I go, I get locked up in the county jail, the same jail where the guy I killed worked his 27 year career. Like, and I thought these guys were going to beat the hell out of me. Because I knew back then. about him taking the inmates home from my father telling me that and nothing ever happened so I'm thinking he's protected and these guys are going to give me the beating of a lifetime and I'm in there and uh they put me in a suicide cell with the camera and uh I guess the last thing they wanted was like

a mysterious death of an inmate who just killed one of their officers you know so they put me in a suicide cell. And the first guard that came in, they'd do a cell check, you know, the door opened, you know, and I look, I get up from, you know, sit up in the upright position. And the guy's like, I'm just doing a cell check. You need anything? I'm like, no. He's like, all right, next time they do a cell check, guard comes in. I'm thinking, all right, here we go now. And he's like, like, hey man, I'm hearing a lot of dirt about this guy. He goes, you got to keep your mouth shut. He goes and let things play out.

Don't talk to me. Don't talk to any other guard in here. He goes, just keep your mouth shut and let things play out. I was like, all right. Next time guard comes in, says, hey, man, doing all right. You need anything? I'm like, are you allowed a pillow in the suicide cell? And he's like, yeah, I'll be back in a minute.

He comes back with two pillows. And I'm like, and I'm like, where's this beating? You know, I'm waiting for this beating. And these guys are like a pilot telling me, you know, chill out and relax. And then a couple days later, a guard came in who was the son-in-law of a girl I dated, had dated. And he's like, my man, how are you? I was like pretty shitty, bro. He's like, yeah, I know.

I'm sorry. He's like, you would not believe what's going on in the community. I'm like, do they view me as a monster? He's like, are you kidding me? He's like, Peg was the monster. Everybody wants to know why he was walking the street still. He goes, somebody started a free Clark campaign. He's like, and they're selling bumper stickers, hats, shirts.

He's like, there's free Clark on like cars everywhere already. I'm like, really? He's like, yeah. And I was like, all right, that's cool. and in one of my hearings, the prosecutor even said in one of my hearings, Your Honor, I don't know how I'm going to get an impartial jury because driving to work every morning, all I'm seeing is free Clark on bumper sticker after bump on bumper after bumper. He's like, there's free Clark stickers everywhere. And I sat in the county jail for three and a half years. and at the three-year mark, they offered me a plea deal to second-degree manslaughter.

So for those three years, I had life hanging over my head. And that's just like suffocates you, man. It's just like beat you into the ground every day. And, you know, they offered a plea deal. And second-degree manslaughter carries five to ten. I already sat for three. It was tempting to want to go to trial. But it would have just been foolish, like, to go to trial at this point after three years in.

So I took the plea deal. It took another six months for me to do a psych eval with their psych. I did one already for ours. And when I went for sentencing six months later, my lawyer had me all, like, no judge is going to want to give the low end on a murder. you know, sentencing. So expect, you know, eight to ten. So I was like, all right. And the judge, you know, he made a couple comments. He's like, I'm tempted to liberate Mr. Fredericks right now, he said at one point. At another point, he said, I know Mr. Fredericks only did what he did because of what was done to him. And then in the end, he goes, I sentence you to five years, which was the

minimum. And, you know, it was amazing to get a five-year sentence. Their hand sort of got pushed because a lot of victims came forward and then covered a lot of dirt on this guy. As I mentioned, you know, the prosecutor to his credit ran a dual investigation. And a lot of former guards came forward, told dirt about this guy. So, you know, And judging by the community's response, you know, they knew they knew they didn't want to see me sit for life in prison, you know. So I got shipped off to northern state prison in Newark, New Jersey. It's right by Newark Airport. And I told you how I wanted to tell you about, you know,

before you go to prison in New Jersey, you go to a place called CRAF, C-R-A-F. It's central receiving and forwarding, something like that. You know, it's where everybody going into the prison system has to go to get classified what prison you're suited for, what your gang affiliation is, what your crime is, what your mental state is, you know, all of that. You get a, you know, a mental evaluation, psych eval, what your health is, you know. So in craft is a complete hellhole. They treat it like hell to try to, like, scare you to never want to come back into the prison system again. At nighttime, you know, I'm in the cell.

I'm on the top bunk. And the first time, then lights went off. I had a blood gang member, 20-year-old blood gang member. and all of a sudden he starts screaming, Clark, Clark, the floor's alive. The floor's alive. There was mice running everywhere on the floor. And I had my own battle going on. I go, yeah, well, look at the frigging walls.

The walls are alive. There was cockroaches running everywhere on the walls, man, like falling down. And so he's screaming. I hate frigging mice, Clark. I go, well, I don't love cockroaches, bro. So like we're just we're both just getting traumatized by the mice and the cockroaches at this place. And luckily I only had to spend seven days there. And then they shipped me out to Northern State.

And I get to Northern State and the guard where you check in at, you know, I check in. I got my folder of paperwork. I give it to him. And he, you know, opens it up. And the prosecutor never changed my charge on my paperwork from murder one to manslaughter, second degree. So it said murder one. So he's looking, he sees murder one.

And he's like, what's your, what's your gang name? I'm like, I don't have a gang name. And he looks up at me. He's like, don't fuck with me, bro. Do not fuck with me. he goes he goes what's your alias like i go i don't have an alias and he drops his pen he's like you want to do it this way he goes we can go into the coat closet i'll take you in there i'm like i go dude i go i'm from the sticks of northern new jersey up in the hills i'm like i go we got cows

running around. We don't have gangs running around. I go, I'm sorry. I know, I don't, I'm not in a gang. I don't have a, he goes, you murdered someone and you're not in a gang. I go, yeah. And he's just like, and then he just starts mumbling, motherfucker, a piece of shit.

You know, he just starts cursing me out. Like, sorry, I'm not in a gang, and I don't have a gang name, you know. So then you got to sit on the chair and get x-rayed. You have to do all that. No, I didn't have to go. Oh, no. I don't like it did the teeth, but not like actual body x-ray.

Oh, yeah. They sit in a chair and they x-ray and make sure you don't have stuff boofed up there. Marvel Television's Wonder Man. An eight-episode series. Now streaming on Disney Plus. A superhero remake. Not exactly what we'd expect from an Oscar winning director. Action!

Simon Williams. Audition for one of me. I'm going to need you to sign this. Assuming you don't have superpowers. I'll never work again if anyone found out. My lips are sealed. Marvel Television's Wonder Man. All eight episodes now streaming, only on Disney Plus.

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Stitch Fix. Stop shopping. Get styled. Not today, sweatpants. Somebody's wearing jeans that fit. Wow! No photos, please. I'm just a regular dad. Who happens to have a stylist? I really look my best when someone else makes the decisions. Hey, we can all see you two-way mirrors.

Just share your size, style, and budget, and your stylist sends personalized looks right to your door. Stitch Fix. Get started today at Stitchfix. I want to hug you. I'm gonna hug you. I'm coming in for a hug. Oh, I've visited some prisons

where they have those things now. They didn't have that at least in the federal places I went to. Yeah, so like in the jail, you're escorted everywhere. In prison, you're not, you're not escorted anywhere.

You know, you go, you gotta go. So he tells me, you're like, you're going to see you in it. And I'm like, where's that? And everything was just like a hassle. Like, he goes, you go through the, frigging doors through the next frigging doors to the right out those doors and you find your

frigging unit i was like all right bro so so i go through the doors i come to the next set of doors and you can't open them i see a thing on the wall a button so i hit the button nothing so i'm like oh for the love of god like what now like you know so like i'm like is it motion activated so i'm waving my hands. And so then the camera's there. And I'm just like doing this for like two minutes. And all of a sudden he comes on, what the F is wrong with you?

I go, how do you get through the doors? He goes, you hit the button on the wall, idiot. I go, I hit it. He goes, hit it like a freaking man. So I punched a thing full force. The door's opened. So I was just like, oh, man. You know, that's your first day there.

Like you're just all out of sorts. You're out of whack. And I go into my cell and it's a black dude. And he's like, you Christian or Muslim? I go, I'm Christian. He goes, me too. But if you touch any of my shit, I'll kill you. I was like, I was thinking to myself, he's a different kind of Christian than I am.

But I was like, all right. and he only lasted like two weeks and then he got in a fight with a female guard and they took him away and then like my next uh my next bunkie was a young black kid who was off the charts he comes in he tells me he's a code red I go what's a code red he has suicide risk I was like great And one thing I did, guys who had been to prison before, they're like, you can mail yourself mail when you're in craft. Like, so leave an envelope to be sent out the day you get shipped out. It'll reach you in craft. And I had newspaper articles about what I did.

And so I had sent that and it arrived in craft when I was there. So I had an article, you know, about killing, you know, a... the guy who molested and abused me and this young black this young uh black blood kid who was off the charts he's like listen man how old do you i'm like now i'm 50 years old i'm like i'm 50 years old i'm like i'm 50 he's like the only 50 year old white guys in prison are frigging pedophiles if you're a pedophile I'm going to fucking kill you. And I'm like, I'm the opposite of a pedophile. He goes, yeah, that's what they all say.

He goes, you're done, man. And I reached under my pillow. I took out my envelope. I opened up. I said, here, read this. And I handed him, you know, the article on killing a guy who abused me. And he's like, all right, bro, you're good. He just like, chase his whole demeanor.

And he's like, hey, I got some psychotic drugs they give me in here. I'm going to mix up a drink. He goes, it gets you fucking whacked. You want some? I was like, no, I'm good, bro. I'm good. You know, but he was, oh, my God. They would not stop talking 24-7.

Like, I'd be in my bunk just, and the lights, like, and he'd be standing out in my pillow, like, just talking. And I'd be like, oh, my God, please. And luckily, he got taken away. He got in a fight. Go figure. It got taken away. And then the next guy I was with was a white dude.

And he was, I was shocked in prison that, like, the inmates go fix stuff. Like, this guy was Mr. Fix. They'd call him out in the middle of the night to go fix an air conditioning unit to go work on a boiler. Like, they had a whole team of inmates that would just go work on stuff. And so because of that, like they would let him hang out in the dayroom by himself, give him extra food. And like guys in prison don't like you to get one extra thing than they get, or else they get real spiteful. So guys dropped a note that he was planning on breaking out because he built all the trailers, him and a team of guys put these trailers together where they had dorms. and somebody

dropped a note like he's planning on breaking out through the dorm and so they came in the middle of the night a goon squad stripped us naked

ordered us out onto the tier they tore our cell apart like taking our ketchup bottles squeezing it out like real spiteful crap I had written I had written my book

in there I had all these notebooks filled them in my book and they threw them out like just chucked them on me and then they took they came down they handcuffed him took him away and they eventually sent him to another prison and uh and uh and uh and i was you know so that was in so you know the bunky you get stuck with really makes makes her break your your your stay in jail or prison and uh the next guy i got was the one until i left and And he and I didn't talk to each other. So it was like fine. Like he didn't talk to me. I didn't talk to him. We're in this little seven by 10 room, not making eye contact, not talking.

He had a TV. I had a TV. I'm writing my book again and just leaving each other alone. And that was that. Were you ever able to have closure with your parents about this, specifically your dad because you had those early conversations with him as a kid when he asked you about what happened? Yeah, no, you'll see in the book.

My dad died in 1999. And, uh, I mean, it's written more about in the book, but on my father's deathbed, he's like, son, I got to tell you something. I'm like, what? And he goes, I was abused by a Catholic priest when I was a kid. And I think this was his like, like he knew like my life was going nowhere like i you know it just i squandered my life and you know you can't hide drugs alcohol women gambling you know they they they see me you know just

destructing left and right and i think this was like his last ditch effort to try to get me to like open up to him hoping it would free me and i was just like i'm sorry about that you know i'm sorry about that that's as far as i went with it um and then he passed like two days later and uh that was tough for him to say that and i you know knowing why he probably said that on his deathbed you know do you ever think about what he would have said to you if he was still alive to watch what unfolded um what he would have said after what i did yeah he probably would have said You should have told me when I asked you because I would have done that. So you didn't have to risk life in prison.

I'm sure that's what he would have said. You know, so I had to, I only had to do, since I did three and a half years in the county jail, I only had to do a year in prison. They kept me past my 85% date. I got pulled into the parole office like a month before I should have got released. and the parole guy's like, you think you're getting released next month? I go, yeah, he goes, no. I go, that's my 85 date.

He goes, yeah, there's an 85 date and there's a max date. And he goes, your max date is three months longer. And he goes, he goes, there's no way they're going to let you out having committed murder of a law enforcement officer at your 85 date. He's like, so just settle in for another three months and, you know, then you'll be out. So whatever, you know, I settled in and they changed my release date three times. You know, like they would never let me know. And even on the day I got released, like, first thing you got to do is go to your parole officer's office. And I showed up there and she was like, what hell are you doing here?

Oh, like, I just got out. She was like, they didn't have this as your release date with me. I'm like, they changed it three times on me. And she's like, all right. Yeah. And, uh, dude, I was so, like, out of whack, having been in prison, you know, five years, you know, like, there was guys that did, this one guy did 18 years and was getting out. This other guy did 23 years. This other guy did 43 years and was getting out.

And they were, like, losing their minds about getting out. Like, just, like, worry. It's so unsettling. My niece picked me up at prison. First, we went to a diner, got real food. And then because all I ate while I was in prison every single night except for Sunday. Sundays they gave you real chicken. But every other night I ate mackerel and ramen noodle with honey and hot sauce.

And that was it. You know, upstairs in your thing here, you got the mackerel. You sort of like brought up. You triggered me with my trauma. Like I started to shake a little when I saw the mackerel up there. So you must have had that too when you're in there. Yeah. Well, we did have mackerel.

Just everything. When I look upstairs, I always think about prison. I mean, it is replicated from that. But it's just interesting. And then just hearing the stories from people too. Yeah. But as triggering as it is, it's also a blessing because I wouldn't be sitting across from, say, someone like you, hearing your story without it. You know, and I'm sure there's a lot of opportunities in your life that you either have gotten or will get because of your story and because you went to prison.

Yeah. And I think your story and your book and everything that will come from that is a testament to that. Yeah. And, you know, and I decided when I got locked up to begin healing, I'm like, you know, I got to take my life in a new direction. And I got therapy for the first time in prison. Like a therapist came to myself. She's like, I followed your case on the news. I can't believe you're here.

I just saw your name come across my computer. And I did therapy with her. I did group therapy. They had a, for the very first time in a New Jersey prison, they offered a meditation class. And I took this Vipasana meditation class, 15-week class. So like, there's insanity swirling all around you. And every Friday night for two and a half hours, we'd be in a classroom, you know, practicing meditation. exercise like a maniac, you know, doing a thousand pushups a day, burpees.

And I regained my faith when I was locked up, you know. I mended defense with God. I had a pastor tell me that there is such a thing as free will and God doesn't control the good and bad that happens to us. You know, we want God to be the superhero. You know, like the plane's going to crash. God better save it. The train's going to derail. God better straighten the track out.

You know, there's going to be a rape. God better save the rape. There's going to be a murder. God better save the murder. If that's true, God's just a superhero, saving a day and why even have life? So this pastor told me that. And he's like, you know, we have free will. We can use it for good or evil.

And some will use it for evil and harm you when you're, when you're in a vulnerable state. And it doesn't mean God isn't real. It doesn't mean God doesn't love you. And when he told me that, because I always blamed God, like, what's the sense of faith if you're going to allow that to happen? And when he said we have free will, it just took my anger towards God away. And I was able to develop faith again.

And when I got out of prison, you know, I became an advocate for overturning the statute of limitations law in New Jersey. I became an online coach. I started a podcast. I filmed a multi-episode documentary. And now I have my book. One last shameless plug, my book scarred coming out with Simon and Schuster publishing, man. And there was so many books I read when I was locked up that just changed my life.

Man Search for Meaning. Did you read that when you're in there? Yeah, I'm Victor Frankel. Yeah, yeah. I love that book. I read that in prison too. So it's interesting that a lot of people that went to prison read the same books. Same books.

And the project I was working on that will be out a few weeks after this comes out. I was reading like a book a day and wrote down a lot of books and I start journaling and stuff. And it's just reading those types of books, those self-help books, really, you know, give you a new perspective. A lot of them are repetitive, but they're just interesting. And I definitely think the Victor Frankel book, A Man's Search for a Meeting, definitely gave me new insight. And another thing that I've learned, a book that I read, which is a great book, the five lessons you need to learn before you die. Yeah, where they interviewed thousands of people over the age of 60 that were successful to find out what the true meaning of life is. And at the back of the book, there's all these questions to ask someone that's older.

So like I want to sit down with my dad and ask him those questions. But that book definitely changed my life. I love that book. Yeah, yeah. So that's why I'm, you know, I'm thinking my book will do for a lot of people what so many books did for me. You know, there's, and it's not just for abuse victims, you know. There's an inspiration in there. It's inspirational.

It'll give people hope. Like, I was held for murder in the jail where the guy I murdered was a lieutenant. Like, do you get any lower in life than that? That's like bottom of the barrel, man. Well, and it also goes into how the system failed you, too. Yeah. as a kid, you know? Absolutely.

There's a lot of themes. And I think you left out the most important part, though. Well, you left out of this room without mentioning the most important part. It's going to be a long ride home. I think the audience is very curious about that. We've got to wrap it up with this, you know. So to wrap it up, after 30 years, I reached out to that college sweetheart, who I couldn't commit to.

And I sent her a Facebook message. on Messenger, and I told her what prevented me back then from taking the next step with her. I didn't know if she would respond. Like, it's been 30 years, bro. Like, I kept this fantasy alive in my head. Like, she was clawing the inside of my head year after year, decade after decade. And I had this fantasy that we had such a great bond, that we had such great love. And then, you know, as the years go by, you're like, did it, did it, was it really that good?

Or am I just like, have I just made this into something it's not? So I reached out to her not knowing if she would reply and she replied. And then I replied and she replied. And two weeks of replying back and forth. She lived in New York. I lived in New Jersey. I said, let's meet for coffee. And we met for coffee.

And, uh, uh, I took her a surprise, which you'll have to read a book to see what the surprise is that made her really believe. She thought I didn't love her, and that's why I walked away. And what I took with me showed her that I did love her, and it proved that I loved her, and that I had always thought about her. And that was six years ago that we met for coffee, and she's out in your waiting room with me today. And her roommate in college and my roommate in college, they dated also when we dated. And they ended up getting married.

And they're here today. And, you know, after your show or the four of us are going out for dinner. I love a good love story. Yeah, yeah, man. So, you know, even at the end of the day, I even get the girl back, you know, in this traumatized life I had to lead, you know. So, you know, just telling it people, you know, like anything can happen in life. You know, you could be charged with murder one day and doing the Ian Bick show with your love of your life the next day, you know. Just there's seasons to life, you know.

There's cold, dark winters where it seems like nothing's going right. And then there's a bright, beautiful spring and summer where everything's clicking in your life, you know. So don't give up is what I would urge people. Do you think little boy Clark when you felt broken, defeated, and all those feelings you felt after what happened to you at such a young age, do you think he would be proud of you today? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, like Lisa, my girlfriend, she's like, you, she's like the drug addicted version of you, which I never knew, never saw. I can't even imagine. she's like who you are now is who I imagined you to be helping people and doing great things

we we had a freshman live with us our senior year he didn't get he didn't have housing and uh I lost track of him for 30 years and he reached out to me two years ago um and I had taken this kid under my wing in college, you know. And he said to me one time, you're, you're the most amazing man, Clark. And I go, how so? He's like, I've never seen somebody party the way you party who gets the grades you do. He's like, I don't know how you juggle it. He goes, it's amazing. And he was having a family party two years ago. And his mother had loved me. And his mother said, whatever happened to that guy, Clark, you know, he was he was such a nice guy. He was such a nice guy. And my roommate said, you know what?

He's got to be running a Fortune 500 company by now. He was that type of guy, Ma. And his wife goes, well, let's look him up. Let's see. And she looked up and there I am plastered all over the internet from murdering my abuser. And she's like, John, take a look at this. And she handed him her phone. and he like, it was too much for him to handle.

And he like, he said, put that away right now. And his mother was like, what was it? No, nothing, nothing, nothing. And he couldn't tell her. And later that night, like, he and his wife did a deep search on me. And he found me on the internet and reached out. And he was just heartbroken. But thrilled that I'm doing now what he always thought I was,

destined to do, you know, big things and help people. So, yeah, so in a long answer to you, yeah, I would think the younger version of me is finally happy with who I've become. I think a lot of the people that come on the show struggle with, you know, their past. And I think it's so important to know that who you were before is not who you are today. And you can become a new person and live that life. And you don't have to feel guilty for that past. Yeah, absolutely.

You know, like, you know, like in the press, they'll, like, pick apart a politician for something they said 20, 30 years ago. Like, if I'm the same person I was 20, if I'm the same person I was a year ago, I've failed. Like, I'm not, I don't have the same thought process as I did when I was 20 versus now. Like, you better be growing and evolving, you know, over three decades, you know. So, yeah, you just be. And you're like, I love people who've been down and out and turn it around and come back. So like, you know, I have spoken in so many rehabs. And I'll go in there.

And, you know, they're like at the bottom right now. And I'll be like, you guys and girls are in the best position ever. And they're like, you know, look at me. Are you effing nuts? And I'll be like, there's only one way to go. It's straight up, man. Like, you're down at the bottom now. As long as you don't end it.

Like, you're going to skyrocket back up. And, you know, so you can turn anything around, man. Absolutely. Well, Clark, thanks so much for coming on the show. Trust me with your story and telling it so beautifully. Even through the sad moments, the heartbreaking moments and the humorous moments, too. You made it very entertaining, and this is a really good episode. Thanks, brother.

I appreciate you inviting me on. Yeah, of course. And everyone check out his book. We'll have the link in the description of this episode. Go get scarred. If you want to support me and you want to help people heal, go get the book scarred. Love it. Peace, bro.