Locked In with Ian Bick - I Shot My Parole Officer — Then Spent 30 Years in Prison | Al Savage

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Al Savage grew up in Toledo, Ohio watching his alcoholic father beat his mother. That childhood trauma sent him toward drugs in his teens and a string of robberies and home invasions that put him in and out of juvenile detention and prison. After his first bid — instead of staying clean — he shot his parole officer. That decision cost him 17 years. In this episode of Locked In with Ian Bick, Al opens up about what nearly 30 years inside actually looked like — battling drug addiction for most of that time surviving some of America's most dangerous prisons and what it finally took to get sober and turn everything around. This is one of the most raw and honest conversations we've ever had on this show. _____________________________________________ #truecrimecommunity #prisonlife #redemption _____________________________________________ Thank you to BLUEPRINT & MARS MEN for sponsoring this episode: Blueprint: For a limited time only, our listeners get 20% off + free shipping at https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.com/ by using code LOCKEDIN at checkout. #Blueprint #ad _____________________________________________ Mars Men: For a limited time, our listeners get 50% off FOR LIFE, Free Shipping, AND 3 Free Gifts at Mars Men at https://mengotomars.com/ _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Shot His Parole Officer — Spent Decades in Prison — Al's Complete Story 03:40 The Resentment That Built Up From Childhood and How It Shaped Everything That Followed 07:00 The Early Warning Signs and the Downward Spiral That Nobody Could Stop 12:40 Family Struggles and the Survival Mindset That Defined His Early Years 20:40 His First Prison Stint and the Escalation That Followed Getting Out 27:10 The Day He Shot His Parole Officer and What Led to That Moment 32:30 Life on the Run After Shooting His Parole Officer and the Additional Time That Followed 41:30 The Cycles of Addiction and Incarceration That Kept Pulling Him Back 47:40 The Turning Point That Finally Started Him Toward Recovery 53:00 The Life Changes the Work and the Growth That Defined His Transformation 01:01:30 Spirituality and What Redemption Actually Required After Everything He Did 01:08:50 The Lessons From Prison Life That He Carries With Him Every Single Day 01:15:40 His Honest Reflections on Regret and the Growth That Came From Facing Everything 01:23:00 Giving Back and What Hope for Others Really Looks Like in Practice 01:33:00 What Living a Meaningful Life Today Actually Requires After Everything He Survived 01:42:00 His Final Thoughts on Hope Recovery and the Message He Wants Everyone to Hear _____________________________________________ To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My guest today grew up watching his alcoholic father beat his mother, turned to drugs and robberies as a teenager, and after his first prison bid, instead of staying clean, he shot his parole officer. That decision cost him 17 years. And altogether, he spent nearly 30 years of his life inside prison, hooked on drugs for most of it, before finally getting sober and turning everything around.

His name is Al Savage, and this is his wild story. Where'd you grow up, Al? Toledo, Ohio. What was your upbringing like? It was good. Then, you know, it had as bad moments because my dad, he was an alcoholic, you know, and he took a lot of stuff out on my mom, you know, and one of the things that I got from that was when I got old enough to be in relationships

with women to never put my hands on them. I got the lesson from watching him through that. You know what I mean? But the initial resentment is what really changed my direction of my life. The resentment that I held towards my dad, you know what I mean? It took me to some places I almost didn't come back from, you know, and it all started with watching how he was treating my mom. And I had like three brothers older than me, right?

And they never saw it as a real problem or they never voiced it. I voiced it, you know. I felt some kind of way about it, you know. So me and my dad, we, we, we, our relationship early on, it was a little rough. But in the end, you know, unconditional love changes everything. You know what I mean? So I was able to get past what I had been holding on to as I got old. older. You know, one of the things I did, though, to try to, like, even the playing field

was I pulled a gun on my dad. I was about 15, and I was, you know, threatened to do something to him, you know what I mean? And that's when I hit the street and I never went back, really. Why do you pull a gun out on him? Because he was, like I said, he was physically abusive to my mom, you know. And there's only so much of that stuff. can stand a witness, you know, at least I could as I was growing older, you know what I mean? And it didn't sit well, you know, so when something don't sit well, which you either accept it or you try to change it, you know what I mean? I tried to change it, you know, and so.

And, you know, as a direct result of me feeling the way I was feeling, a lot of other things came in to play detention home, drug abuse. You know, I started snorting heroin early in life. You know, I didn't stop until I was well into my 40s, you know. So it played a major part in how my life really took off in the direction it took off because of the resentment I was holding. And I learned years later that resentments have the ability to rob you of the good things that life have to offer you, you know.

I didn't understand that then, but I understand it now, you know. So you had to go through, I had to go through what I went through, you know. I was very athletic as a kid growing up. If I could have probably stayed on the street, a few of the guys in my neighborhood, about three of them, they all went to the NBA. I was in an institution plan, you know, but that's all part of the life I live, you know what I mean? And it almost broke me, but, you know, you go through things in life,

and you can't let them break you. You have to try to overcome them. Now I understand that life don't just happen to you. it actually happens for you, you know what I mean? So all the bumps in the road be opportunities to grow. But I didn't see that then. I see it now, but back then I couldn't see it. You know what I mean?

I thought jails and institutions was going to be all of that had coming. Either I was going to die in the street, probably with a gunshot, or I was going to die in the penitentiary. You know, and that's how my life was unfolding. for me early, you know, because I detention home, BIS, Indian River, all of them, little juvenile institutions, I went to all of them. Then I wound up in the penitentiary as an 18-year-old kid, you know, and coming home from that environment, coming home from that environment, my mindset was so different. You know what I mean? Instead of me growing to get better,

I was growing to become worse, you know, based on the information. You know what I mean? See, I had a, now I got to say this because I had a praying mother. And my mother was always praying because she's seen early the way my life was headed. Because I was real firm in my decision of not wanting to work early.

You know, I don't want no job. I ain't working nowhere, you know what I mean? Because my dad, he worked every day. He was a construction worker. I don't want nothing to do with that. You know what I mean? I'm not going to lay down brick. I ain't been to push no wheelbarrels, you know.

So a lot of that, but my mom, she always seemed and held and recognized that I was going to the left instead of the right. So her thing to me was I would always try to keep your appearance up. Hard work ain't ever killed nobody. And it's better to give than receive. I couldn't get to none of that, but try to keep your appearance apart. You know, as you were a kid and you're going to school and you got brothers, like I had three brothers older than me. So most of the clothes I was getting, they were all passed down to me.

So I learned how to steal. Once I learned how to steal a couple shirts, it took off in another direction. You know, I started stealing all my clothes, you know what I mean? And I never wore, wanted to wear hand-me-downs, but that's what we was at in a household. You know what I mean? I had three brothers older than me and five sisters,

so I come out of a big household, you know what I mean? And then I got a dad that's an alcoholic, so against the odds, you know, here I am now today doing what I'm doing. doing living my best life and that's a direct result of some of the stuff i went through did you ever find out why your dad turned to alcohol not really you know uh i mean everybody has their own demons that and if they don't address them the demon always address you you know so he was a pastor of a church at the at the same time you know so i mean he's drinking during the week and preaching on sunday So to me, that was like, where they do that at?

You know what I mean? So my outlook on it was, you know, dude ain't living like he talking. You know what I mean? And early on, my thing used to be whatever you do, I don't play with God. So when I was getting in trouble, I never made deals with God. God, if you get me out of this, you know what I mean? I never did that. I just always dealt with the situation because it was my behavior that got me there.

You know what I mean? Nobody never falsely accused me of anything, you know what I mean? Because I was always doing stuff to break the law. So my dad, you know, he was doing the best he could with what he was working with, you know. And a lot of times I understand now today that one of the keys to life is education. And when you lack education, it's hard to open the door to let yourself out of a situation, you know what I mean, that might be bothering you or holding you down or, you know, just causing you pain

and you don't know how to address it. And then when you don't develop the ability to really talk to nobody else about it, it's hard to get help, you know what I mean? Because, you know, they grew up in the era where men don't cry, men don't do this, men don't do that. But me personally, I've learned over the years that if I can't ask for help, I might not never get none. And it's not a weakness. It's a strength to be able to do it.

You know what I mean? But I had to, you know, I learned some lessons in life along the way. And that's one of them. You know what I mean? That it's okay to ask them. Okay, I have to tell you all about this sponsor because it's genuinely perfect for me specifically. If you've watched a show for any amount of time, you know everybody calls me McLevin.

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My mom, she owned a restaurant, so, you know, we had a restaurant. My dad had a church across the street from the restaurant, so we was doing pretty good at one point, you know what I mean? But alcoholism and bad decision making don't mix. It don't compute, you know what I mean? Bad things come from that kind of stuff. stuff, you know, especially bad decisions, you know, you make bad decisions along the way. They take you to places that can really harm you, you know, in life, just in life in general, you know, so I would say where we should have been doing real good,

we wasn't because of the bad decision making. You know, alcohol don't let you see or think clear. You know what I mean? So, and my mom, she just had to go with the flow pretty much, you know, because he was running stuff with an iron fist, you know, so. Yeah, I ain't going to say we was, well, I'm going to say for myself, I know my mom, she was like probably the most spiritual person I've ever met, you know, even though that was one aspect of life, you know, being a spiritual giant or having a giant in your spirit is something,

you know, that takes you a long way in life. You know what I mean? Even when she was able to muster up enough courage to divorce my dad after about 45 years, You know what I mean? Now she got to go do everything on her own, but she rose to the occasion and did just that, you know, when it got her own job, you know, wasn't none of that. I'm sitting at home waiting on nobody to do nothing for me.

You know, she wouldn't do it for herself. And I always applauded her for being able to do that, you know what I mean. So a lot of times people find their self in situations and they don't know that they can rise above them. based on the information. You know, it all starts with the information, I believe, you know. I watched my mom go through what she went through and rise above, you know. Never really said nothing bad about my dad

other than the fact that he didn't do what he was supposed to do for the marriage, you know what I mean? And she didn't bad, my off of him or none of that. She didn't play that, you know, so. And then when I, you know, years later when I looked at it and I was like, man, how could you go through all that with somebody and not? And still try to be there for them. You know, so I've learned a lot from just watching that. You know what I mean?

Sometimes I had to lower my expectations of people and raise my acceptance with them. because people are going to be who they are, you know what I mean? And until they decide to do the work on themselves, they might not never rise above or get better, you know what I mean? So I need not hold that against them because they can't, you know? So, yeah, I had some real valuable life lessons, and I thank God for them, you know. If we asked 14-year-old you, what he wanted to be when he grew up,

what would he have said? probably a basketball player. I probably would have said that, you know what I mean, because I really had a passion for basketball. I had no idea that I was going to become a dope being along the way, but, you know, a lot of people in my neighborhood growing up, that's what happened. You know what I mean?

Substance abuse, one way or another, because a lot of guys was coming home from Vietnam. By the time I was about 14, Vietnam guys in my neighborhood, they was coming home. most of them came home, heroin addicts, the majority of them. Do you remember the first time you tried drugs? Well, yeah. I mean, I smoked weed.

I did TAC. I did, you know, a lot of stuff. And then I was hanging out over one of my friends' sisters' house. And it was this guy, he was a big dope man in our community. And he used to supplied him. So he would always come over there. And every time he would see me, say, Hey, little red, come here.

I said, what's up? He said, go get me them plates and them tooting cards off the mantel up there. So I would go get that stuff for him. You know, I'm a little kid, 13, 14. And he would take that stuff and start mixing up his stuff. And I'd be standing there talking to him, messing with him, sticking my hand in the plate,

doing what I see them doing, snorting it, putting it up my nose, you know what I mean? And then it was this one guy in particular, he was like, the dude that had the gun for the door. He was a doorman, really. And he would come down and get his stuff and go back upstairs. And that, when I would see him later, it was like he would be hired than everybody. I'm like, man, what is this dude doing?

So curiosity got me, right? So I'm like, man, I need to see what he got going on, right? So I followed him one day. And he said, what he said was he told me for a loop, right? And he said, if I see you doing this, I'm going to F you up, right? And of course, that defiant rebellious kid on the inside of me, said, so this dude, you know what I mean? What do you think he's talking to?

You know what I mean? And so now I got to try it. I got to try it now because what he, just said, I'll show him. All the time I'm feeling I don't know about the destruction that I'm going to cause myself trying to show something to him.

You know what I mean? And, man, it took me to some places that I almost didn't make it back from. You know, it's only through the grace and the mercy of God that I'm here. You know, I ain't confused about none of that. You know, because had I really got with my hand called for, it wouldn't be a seat

sitting here. No. Now, you mentioned that you ended up in a penitentiary by the time you were 18. What happened? Well, after the last time I went to in River, I was a juvenile. And when I came home, I had just turned 18. And my disease that took off. I'm doing a lot of armed robberies, harm invasions.

I'm doing it all. And when I finally get caught for it, they don't catch me actually in the act doing it, but they found the tools in my car, my trunk. They found the gun and some ski masks and stuff. So they just assumed I was the guy that was doing, I had something to do with all the stuff that was going on.

But when they locked me up, the stuff that was happening, it continued to happen. So I wound up in the penitentiary steel, though, because of the tools that I had. So when I'm in there and, you know, you're supposed to go there to try to better yourself, some kind of way.

Taping into the information, you're supposed to try to get better. But that didn't happen for me. You know, I came home. I did three and a half years there and wanted to do what three of the guys, that came out of my neighborhood, they all came home and they came back. They went home and they came back. And they was all telling me their story about how they got back in there, you know.

And I was like, man, and I could remember saying to myself. Well, I didn't even say it to myself. I said it to them. I said, man, y'all probably be reading about me. But I was going home the next day. The parole officer that I had, they all had. also, and he brought all three of them back. So my mind was already made up.

He wasn't bringing me back, not him, not by itself, right? So sometimes I've learned through that. I got to be careful what I say, because I have the power to really speak stuff into existence. Little do I know. Little did I know then, the way I know now. You know, words are spirit for them, and words have power. You know, over the years I've understood that words are really the highest form of power.

It all started with the word, you know. So when I get home after that, me speaking that, the encounter that I had with the parole officer right from the very start, it was really disrespect on both of our parts. You know, even though he was a person of authority, you can't just disrespect me because you got a badge and you got authority. You can't disrespect me and think I'm going to be okay with it, you know. So that was always my response wherever I was, you know, even in prison, that kind of stuff.

I don't, your job title don't mean shit to me. You know what I mean? Because you got a job and you're supposed to be doing it. If you're going to do it, do it right. Don't have no favorite. So, you know, I'm going to do this guy this way, but I'm going to do that guy that way. You know, don't do that.

So when I come home, me and this guy I first encounter really was real negative, right off the rip. You know what I mean? This is my first encounter with him. And I felt like he was disrespecting me, and he probably felt like I disrespected him too because I did. You know, I just tell him, man, fuck you and your job. Do your job.

You know what I mean? When he came to my house to have a, well, he really didn't come to my house to visit. He came to my house to tell me I needed to be somewhere that I was just at. You know, and I took it real offensive, you know. I just walked five miles there and five miles back. Now you want me to walk back down there? No, I don't think so, dude. I ain't doing all that.

So, you know, sometimes that's first impression, you know, you can make the wrong first impression on a person, and it don't never be right from that point. And that's the way it was with me and him, you know. Because in my mind, I already knew what he was capable of doing. So as I started to move around and do things in my disease, started progressing getting worse, you know, because you could only hide it for so long to it, it gets to the point where you don't care who, no, you know. A couple times I was down in my

neighborhood, and I live in a drug-infested neighborhood, you know, that's why I grew up at, and he would see me and say, what are you doing in this neighborhood? Man, I live here. Where I'm supposed to be where I'm, you know, where is it for me to go, you know. And then he would shake me down and embarrass me in front of everybody on the block, you know. So I, you know, I took real fist to all that stuff. So one time he had me, I got my pistol on me and he rolled down on me. And my friend, he happened to see it. So he sent this girl and told her to intervene. And when she did, I just walked away from him, went on cross. the street got into the traffic

and went on because I knew I had that pistol on me and it could have really went bad you know so one time after that the next time after that I was going to cop and here he come at 6 about 730 in the morning

I'm coping he's down there really in a disguise he ain't in him in his car you know he and somebody else's car looking for me right waiting on me So when I come out of the spot, he pulled his gun out. He's, man, you're under the rest.

I'm taking you, put you in the car. We're going to jail. So my girl, she's with me, but she had crossed the street, and she comes out, she's like, what's up? He tells her, you know, I'm locking him up, so you might as well go ahead and do what you're doing. But all the time he's talking to her, I'm opening the door because I know whatever I'm going to do,

I got to do it quick. Because in this neighborhood, they don't really, parole officers, they don't really be by themselves. Even though they're there by themselves, somebody's always in front of them or in back of them coming, you know,

so I knew that. So I pushed the door open, and she had left, you know, moved out. So when I come out of the crowd, just pulled my pistol, we started shooting at each other, you know what I mean?

And he hit me, I hit him. But I'm going to show you. you how even in the midst of that, right, I'm running and I come to this fence. Had the fence not been there, he probably would shot me in my back. But by the fence being there, I had to jump the fence to keep moving. And even in the midst of that, when he hit me, hit me my leg, he didn't hit me in my back like he probably could have or probably his marksmanship was probably telling you. letting him that, you know. But I got through that and I ran, I hid, a couple of my buddies got me,

got me up out of there, you know, it was real heated up, man, and I got a bullet in me and I'm, I'm moving around, I'm doing stupid stuff because what are you, what do you go with every police in the city looking for you and you got a bullet in you? You know, you can't go to hospital. So I go with one of my friends's house and at a time, being a girl, I don't even know it really, but I know of her. And I stay there for a couple days, but I don't stay there. I go somewhere else. And while I'm there, it's this lady that was real good friends with my mom. She used to come to the house every day to clean my wound, feed me and stuff, right? And all I'm doing a shooting dope trying to kill the pain because, you know, when a lead hit you

put you on fire, you'll be on fire, right? So I'm like, man, I got to figure out something to do. So, man, a chick at this house, we fall out and just so happened. This other chick I know she came through there. So, man, you got to get me out of here, right? I can't stay here. I can't sleep here another night. I ain't, it ain't safe, right?

So she come, they take me, I go to Chicago, and I get dropped off over there. And that's where I'm thinking now here I am over in Chicago. I take the bullet out of my leg. I get some whiskeys and shoot some dope and pull that bullet out and clean the wound, keep the wound clear. I'm young. I'm still young. I'm 22 years old.

So the wound healed, my body heals itself, right? So after a while, I'm like, I'm back in the street in Chicago, but I don't know nobody. So I got the upper hand on them. Plus my, you know, I'm still a dope fiend. I'm an addict, right? So I don't know nobody. So I'm taking everybody's stuff that I can get away with, you know, still in doing what I do.

And hitting some good licks, hitting some bad licks. And, you know, I hate this one lick. I'm thinking this going to be the good one. But when I pulled up, I should have known better because I seen a detective car riding down the street. And it was like five detectives in the car. I'm saying, man. Over here, they do stuff like that. In Chicago, there ain't nothing to see a car full of police officers, you know what I mean?

Little did I know, though, the house that I was watching, they was watching. So when I go in there and I shoot dude and stick him up and here they come. So we all, they got the house around and I'm in there trying to tie the guy up and take his dope. And hit it, you know, they raid the house. So you get me, get the guy I'm with it. Another incident coming out of the house, the guy who I'm with, he said, man, don't try nothing. He said, these police up here will kill you, right? Because I ain't from Chicago, so shit.

My mind is telling me, well, that's their job. That's what they're going to have to do, you know what I mean? Because I ain't going to jail willingly already. No, I'm wanted in Ohio, so I might as well try something. So I dive over the fence. I lay the gun down as I'm diving. I roll. I take off running, but I run up the side of the house and the police is in front of the house.

So as I'm coming up to side of the house, police is shooting all in the back. They're shooting. Bullets is flying. I hear them. And when I get up the side of the house, the police is in the front. It's step out. Got his gun. It's just me and him in like a little gang way, really.

and we were on the side of two hours. He said, man, if you move one more muscle, I'm going to blow your brains out, you know? So, okay, I get it. It's time to surrender, you know what I mean? So I surrender and I go to jail. And if I go through that process or going to jail and be in a Cook County jail

and trying to escape out of the county jail and, you know, just doing all kind of insane stuff because my mind is telling me, man, you can't, it's going to be too much time for you to do. You know, but I didn't put myself in this situation, but they give me four years. And in the state of Illinois, whatever they give you, you do half of it. So I got two years. I do two years.

They extradite me back to Ohio. I get a nine to 40. I wind up in prison. I stay in prison a total of two years in Illinois, 17 years in Ohio on that beef, on those two beefs. And I come home and I stay home eight months. And I'm back in jail for a dirty urine, but... This is the exact drink that the tech guy who's trying to live forever takes every single morning.

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checkout. That's code locked in at blueprint.brienjohnson.com for 20% off. After you purchase the last where you heard about them, please support our show and tell them our show sent you. Through my whole incarceration, I stayed high. You know what I mean? I, I chase dope in jail like I did on the street. I always, there's something about the disease of addiction. It always open up the window of opportunity for you to get that next one. You know, just one more, you know what I mean? So my window stayed open. I always was getting one more, one more, one more.

So I didn't know how to shed the window, right? And coming home, I get a dirty year, and they send me back. I do three more years. I was home eight months, and I do, I get a dirty ewing. I go back, I do three more years. And when I come home that time, I go back after doing the three years. I'm in a verbal argument with somebody. And I find myself back in the penitentiary.

And they give me 32, well, the guidelines say 32 months. And a full board hearing, that's what the guy recommended me. I'm going to recommend you 32 months plus a full board hearing since you're such a violent offender. And I'm like, man, now what do I do? because back then they was giving guys five and ten years just for technical parole violation. I'm like, man, I'm done. So I got a couple sisters.

They live in Maryland, and I'm telling them, y'all, I need y'all to come to Ohio to have an interview with the parole people. And my one sister said, she's like, man, we ain't doing that. I said, well, you know, I ain't going to try to help me get out? She said, no, we're just going to pray. So she prayed with me over the phone, right? And every time I would call her, she said, call me once a week and we pray. And I did that.

And when they finally, 13 months later, they finally make a decision to let me out. They give me 11 more months, though. They don't give me the 32 months. They give me 24 months, which was a short end of the guideline. And I do that time and I get out and I'm still, and I'm looking at that. Still, I don't see God because I don't have a relationship with him. Right. But my sister and them did. They believed in the power of prayer. So when I come home, I stay home after that incident, and I wind up back in prison for the last time I went and I did 11 months. But I got off paper. I was off parole because the lady that sent me back, well, she was my parole officer. She didn't actually send me back, but she was a parole officer. And she said, when I came home, she said, man,

as long as you don't catch no new case, I'm going to make sure you get off parole because you shouldn't have went back. And she did her, she did just what she said she was going to do. But when I get off about six, seven months later, I ain't on parole, but I catch a new case. A theft case and they sent me to jail for 11 months. And I get off, I get out of that, I still ain't convinced that I need to do something different.

because there ain't nothing working, right? So I'm sitting in jail for the last time in 2004. And I got five, I got three misdemeanors and one felony five case pending. And I don't know really what to do. I got these three little cousins, they come in, right? And I'm like, damn, I ain't never did no time with no family member.

I got three of them. Two of them last name, same as mine. We all on the same unit. This shit is crazy, right? So I'm saying to myself, man, I guess I'm supposed to watch these guys grow up. Some tell me, maybe they're here to watch you die. And my biggest fear was dying in prison. That was my biggest fear.

And I didn't want to die in prison. So I did the one thing I had never done. I called out to God and said, I need some help. God help me. That was my word. And the help came, and it's so, that's why I say the power of speaking words have power to them. I spoke the word, the help came.

And it was blessings, right? We all can afford to be blessed, and can stand to be blessed, but the blessing got such a disguise to it, right? I don't recognize it as a blessing because it's a letter in the mail that started to, the ball to rolling. And it touches my spirit in a way that my spirit had never been touched before, right?

And there was a letter from my sister. And she said, hey, bro, I hope when this letter reach you and find you in the best of health and good spirits. Everybody here sees to be doing fine. Hope to see you soon. I sent you a few dollars. I'm sure you could use it. Love baby sis. Then in the P.S.

She said, I ain't going to never give up on you because my God is an awesome God. And those words resonated in my spirit, and it touched me. And I'm like, man, what the world is having? Because now I got tears coming down my face, and I'm like, how did this shit happen, right? So a couple days later, a guy come in and he say, anybody won't go to church. And I was never one of guys in jail that went to church. But something was moving inside of me, and I didn't understand it. I just got up and I told him.

I said, yeah, I like to go. So I went. And when I got in there, it seemed like the guy was talking directly to me. He said, man, you need to get planted. You need to get some stability, some growth, and empowerment. Like, damn, those words rang true. They touched me, right? From 2004 to 2026, I still remember them words as if it was yesterday.

today, right? And that's how impactful they were. So, so I took the words and I had no idea what was about to happen in my life, right? Because like I say, sometimes we'd be looking for the blessing and the blessing to come, but it's got such a disguise to it. You don't recognize it as a blessing. So now I'm sitting in a jail and the lady called me. She said, hey, Savage, can I speak to you for a minute? I'm like, yes, man, what's going on? She said, can you make bond on that felony five? I said, yeah, I can make bond. She said, make bond, and we're going to send you the treatment on the misdemeanors.

So I made the bond, they sent me the treatment. When I get the treatment, and I have always, every time I get the opportunity, I have to give a shout out to my best friend's dad, Lou. He was at the treatment facility when I got there. And he embraced me as if I was his own son. poured into my spirit every day. For 28 days, I'm in that facility, right? And he used to do things like this to him.

He said, I want you to get up there and run a group, man. To run a group. He said, yeah, you got it? You got this. So I was getting practice. I didn't know that when I was leaving treatment. He said, listen, Bobby is your sponsor. Jamie Far Park.

That's your home group. He said, Al, I suggest you go to as many meetings. you can go to. And that's what I did. I followed directions. I went home, started going to meetings. Bobby,

he said, listen, that's what I want you to do. I want you to, with 60 days, I want you to start going up to facilities to listen. Because for 90 days,

I want you to go up there to speak. And I started doing that. When I stopped doing H&I, I had 14 and a half years clean. I had a job. Something else I had never done. I had never worked at 46. I had never had a job.

I had never had a bill in my name. I had never had a valid driver's license. I had a driver's license with somebody else's picture with my name on it. You know what I mean? No, but with my picture and they name on it, and I'm like, man, this is Joseph Stoverfield. That's me, right? So that was the ID that I used.

And I wind up. having, I had about five months clean, but I still got the felony five pending. So when I go to court, the judge said, man, I'm going to send you to jail for six months. I've learned enough at this point that I know I don't want to go back. You know what I mean? So when I go to the jail, I ask the case manager, I say, can you, do y'all have any NA books? She said, yeah, we got such and such. You can sign them out.

So I signed about two, three books out. And some guys on a unit, they came to me one day, say, hey, man, can we have a meeting? I said, why not? I know enough. I didn't learn some things on how to conduct a meeting, right? So we started having meetings in the jail. And all that did was really, it didn't allow me to go to the negative. Every time I ever went in anybody's jail, I went to the negative automatically.

This time I didn't. You know what I mean? So I kept feeding myself this information, even incarcerated. You know what I mean? And when I got back out, I continued doing what I was doing, going to H&I participating in that. 14.5 years later, you know, I've had some bumps in the road. In 2010, I had a double. a bypass heart attack.

I'm sitting at the kitchen table. And I'm smoking a cigarette, drinking some coffee. And my girl at the time, she said, I'm going to go out and start the cars on a Saturday afternoon. Got a few thousand in my pocket.

Matter of fact, I'm working construction. Same shit my dad was doing. This guy, Jimmy, he said, hey, Al, you got a job yet? I had about 19 months clean. I said, job. I said, I ain't thought about no damn job, Jimmy. He said, listen to me, man.

He said, if you don't go get a job, you're going to go back to prison. He said, because you're going to do what's most familiar to you to get money because you ain't going to be out here on the street and not have no money. And he was right, you know, so I followed his direction. Another time I followed somebody else's direction. I went and got a job. It was the most humbling thing I did. making $5.75 an hour at 40, 7 years old, right?

But I enjoyed working. I learned in the institution, you go to work every day, you don't be late, you don't run from the work. So that was all I had. I didn't have no work experience on the street, but I had enough of that inside of me to know that once I got on a job, I had to perform, you know what I mean? And that's what I did.

So as a result of me doing that, a guy called me one day about nine months later into the working part. He said, man, I see you trying to change your life. I see, yeah, I'm just work shit, man. You know, it's, it ain't as bad as I thought it would be, you know what I mean? Because I'm actually enjoying myself because I'm starting feeling productive. I'm starting to become a productive member society without my even being aware of the fact that this is what's happening to me, right? because I'm now on being responsible and accountable for my behavior, right? And shit is making me feel good about me.

So my man say, hey, man, listen, as your friend, I'm supposed to show you and tell you what work really entail. So I said, well, what is that, man? He said, the more money you make, the less work you do. Damn, man, what do they do that? So he gave me a job working in the union hall and construction. out at the refinery, so I do that. And 20 years later, I retired from that.

You know what I mean? I went to work every day. I was never laid. I never ran from no work. So you guys are all saying in the comments how big these guns are getting. And, you know, people have been coming to their own conclusions about what the reason behind that is. And let me tell you, it's not what you think. So it all starts here on this very court a few weeks ago. I was planning. a game of pickup basketball, just like we did in prison. You know, every single day we'd be playing basketball in prison, and I got in the pretty good shape doing it. But a few weeks ago, when I tried to play the game, I was absolutely winded because, you

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So everyone in the comments, that's the secret. Get 50% off for life plus free shipping and three free gifts at men go to mars.com. But when I had that heart attack, it was like God that did surgery to my spirit. Because I still had some things that I wasn't quite letting go up. You know what I mean? And once that happened, I really started to understand the dynamics of what that 12-step program really entailed, right? The disease, what it does is it strips us. It robs us of the character or the person we're supposed to be.

You know what I mean? That's how you see fathers not be fathers. You see mothers walk away from their children. You know, you see a whole lot of homelessness, mental health shit going on in it, right? But after being in a 12-step program, I started realizing and understanding that once you start practicing and living there 12 steps, it started incorporating change in your life. You start seeing stuff different. You start my experience through that pain and that failure and that struggle, those steps started helping me rebuild the character. my humility, my empathy, my passion, my integrity, all those things changed once I started applying

those principles to my life, right? And they ain't just principles, they're spiritual principles, right? Because the most damage that, and I understand now that the most damage that had been done to me, it was done to me spiritually. My spirit was broken, right? So now my spirit is being healed from the inside out. It's an inside job. It's always been an inside job. I didn't know what dope, right? Everything happens from within.

The resentments, the feeling bad about yourself, the low self-esteem, all those things take you to the dope. Because once the disease set up, it's one of them diseases. It's a treatable disease, and it can be treated and put under arrest.

but left untreated, it progressively get worse every time. It's no way around it because it's a disease. And the diseases, they get real bad if you don't address them because they're going to address you. You know what I mean? And that's what I had to come to realize and understand that once I started doing stepwork and really going back, digging down deep inside of myself

and find out what was triggering me and what was caused those defects of my character that kept tripping me up. And over a period of time, I started learning that I got like these eight inherited enemies on the inside of me, right? And they don't, they ain't went nowhere. I still got them. 22 years into this thing.

I still have them, right? And that's dishonesty, closed mindiness, unwillingness, self, the disease of addiction, apathy, procrastination, and complacency. Those things ain't left me. they still are part of who I am. As long as I don't allow them to take over, my disease or use any one of them to trip me up if I allow it to, right? But then I realize and understand that we have also some keys of freedom.

And I had to come to realize and learn what those was, right? And that's like honesty, hope, faith, courage, integrity, humility. You know what I mean? Those things takes me to a whole other level of life, Because in the end, unconditional love takes care of everything. You know what I mean? It's a hell of a thing to love somebody in spite of them. When they ain't where you think they should be

or what they can't get to where you think they should be. And you still love them anyway. You know what I mean? A whole lot of people, they give up on people. You know, and that's one of the things that I've learned in this process of recovery. that I've been doing that you can't give up on people, man. You got to try to fan their flame. You got to try to give them something every day.

Some kind of encouraging word just to go with little father. You know what I mean? And sometimes that makes all the difference in the world through my experience, right? Just a kind word. It don't cost nothing just to give somebody a kind word. My mom used to always say, boy, it ain't so much. It's better to give than receive, right? And I used to say, what the world do she mean?

We ain't got nothing, right? But I had no idea what she was talking about. And when she says, better to give what than receive, it ain't so much as what you give. It's the spirit in which you give it that matters, right? Because you could give people stuff and give it to them begrudgingly, and they don't get the feeling. They don't get the feeling of what you're giving them.

They don't get it because it's a feeling attached to it. And I'm learning more and more that anytime I'm, acting on a defect of character, the defect ain't just by itself. It's always a company with some insanity. So that allowed me to take it all the way to some place I might not come back from. You know what I mean? So I have to be real mindful of how I deal with certain situations and I got to keep my spirit fed positivity. Because if I don't feed it positivity, I automatically start feeding and negativity, right? It's just something inside of each and whatever one of us that cries for failure

sometime. And when you ain't in the habit of giving yourself good information, you would be giving yourself bad information and justifying why it's okay to do it because you ain't tapped into the good information. But once you tap into it and I'm learning more and more like the blueprint for life for me is on the inside. Once I tap into it, the outside of follow it. But I got to tap into it.

You can't tap into it for me. I got to tap into it for myself, right? The more I learn these things that work for me, the more I apply them to my life, the better version of myself I become. You know, and that's just where I'm at in my life. You know, I'm like coming here. And I was tickled to death on my way coming here.

You know what I mean? Because to me, this is another avenue for me to be of service to God. And that's how I see life now. You know, what are you doing? Who are you helping? The way that we live on is through the lives that we impact along the way. Because, see, I understand my true nature.

Now, my true nature is my spirituality. Whatever it is that I'm feeding it, that's determined what's coming. So I'm going to feed myself negativity. I got negativity coming. If I feed myself positivity, I got positivity coming. It's just a matter of what it is that I'm feeding me. Not nobody else. I got to be feeding myself something.

positive, right? So the more I practice this thing, the more I live this thing, and the more of it it becomes a part of who I am, you know, through practice. I learned in life, nobody's born with skill. You develop it through practice. If you practice that being a better version of yourself, you will be a better version of yourself. If you keep that in the forefront of your mind, that this is what's happening. And when life show up, because life going to show up, but they don't need our permission to show up. It's going to show up anyway, right? It ain't so much that it show up.

It's how I respond to it when it show up that matter. And I'm learning more and more if I respond in a positive way. I get a positive result. Life ain't always, it ain't happening just the way I would like for it to be happening all the time. But that don't mean I had to run from it. You know, because in the beginning, I ran from life. I never participated in it. You know what I mean?

If it wasn't about getting high or the next one, then I ain't want nothing to do with it, right? But once I got past all of that, and it took me to go through some things. A lot of my friends, they didn't make it. They died from the whores of addiction. Some of them died committing crimes. You know what I mean?

But I'm still here. So how do I try to be, like my man said, how can you change the world? You know what I mean? I'm looking at that, and I'm saying, myself, it's always about trying to help somebody. Who can you reach back to help? And that's what I do.

I try to help people. You know what I mean? Because I've been helped. I didn't just get here. You know what I mean? I went through some things to get here. But I had to go through those things. Now I understand I had to go through those things to get here.

You know what I mean? Had I not went through that, I wouldn't feel the way that I feel about life itself. You know what I mean? Not tapping until knowing. none of the information, like the spiritual part of this, you know, my spirituality, what am I feed myself, you know, who am I helping if I'm reaching back? If I ain't doing none of those things, then I'm doing not only me at this service, but I'm doing God at this service, you know what I mean? Because it's only through the grace and the mercy that I'm here. If I'd have really got what I

had coming, it wouldn't be this. And I know that. How much time totaled did you serve in prison? I would say probably as an adult, probably about 30 years as an adult, maybe a 31. But I did like 25 months as a juvenile. And these are throughout the 70s and the 80s and the 90s? What was prison like back then? Terrible. And this was in mostly Ohio, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I did one time in a state of Illinois where everybody over there was gang members, you know what I mean? But in Ohio, it wasn't as bad. The gang stuff hadn't really got there yet. But in Ohio, man, I mean, I've been in the old mass field. I went there in the 70s. And it was probably the most inhumane thing I've ever experienced and being incarcerated. Why?

What was going on there? It was rat infested. Yeah, sewer rats running around coming through. toilets at night. They had this one part of the institution where they had a like a pre-hearing detention range and there was like 15 sales for guys that was waiting to go to the RRB board. And sometimes you might be back there 90 days, five months, you know. And the first night I went back there, a guy hollered over at me, he said, yeah.

He said, you got to stay up all night down here. He said, just stay up to night and watch what I'm talking about. So when night came, it's six tiers up. So we're on the bottom tier. Everybody's throwing trash over the range. So when night came, if there was one rat down there, it was probably about 600 of them. I mean, I ain't talking about no little rats. I'm talking about some great big sewer rats, right?

He said, you can't sleep at night. I understood why at that point. Because if they came in your cell and one bit you or something, they all would come in there and get you, you know what I mean? So it was always, I stayed down there probably about five months. Then I went on to D-block. But that probably was the most inhumane thing I've experienced down there. And a couple times I found myself in a couple of altercations with the staff.

And they didn't hesitate to let me know that they take lives in here. Don't be playing. You know, this ain't no game. And I got the message quick. A friend of mine, I seen he was from Cleveland, and me and him had did a couple of juvenile bits together. And probably about 18, 19 years old, he was murdered down there by the staff, you know, and that was something that, that sent some, my mind, though, I was so messed up back at the time,

I was ready to say, well, shit, let's risk it all. Let's get one of them, you know what I mean? And a friend of mine told me, he said, man, you know, if we get caught, we're going to death row. And I guess that kind of like brought me back, you know what I mean? but it's different scenarios I didn't been in in an institution where, man, I'm like, man, if I could just get out. But I didn't know how to get out and stay out. I got out, but I always went back. And I learned later that you could get out,

especially if you ain't got a murder case, you'll get out. But if you don't change the information, you'll go back. See, it's the information. The vicious cycle, it repeats itself. Once you get caught up in it, it's always repeating itself. And it's only one way in. And it's only one way out. The information has to change in order for you to get out and stay out.

If that don't change, you'll stay in the cycle. You know, it just take on different levels. You know what I mean? Like being in maximum security, when I was there in the 80s, guys was dying. and left and right. I mean, literally over, really nothing to lose your life about. You know what I mean? But that's how I was in there. You know, I always tell people, I say there's three kind of people in there. The wise, the strong and the weak. And everybody falls in one of those categories, whether they

realize it or understand it or not. Wise rule, strong, strong rule to weak. You know what I mean? just got to make sure that you ain't the weak one. You know, you don't want to be the strong one either if you can help it. You want to be the wise one. You know, but that takes a lot of life lessons, you know, because in there, you're going to get some, life brings a lot of lessons to you. And sometimes those lessons that life brings be better and painful. You know what I mean?

But, like I always share, Education is real key. Education is knowledge, but experience is wisdom. And it's a big difference, you know, having a book knowledge for something, trying to help somebody with it, and you ain't been there.

Sometimes it don't rang true. But having experience from something and you didn't lived it, which is wisdom, reaching back and helping somebody in that area, it makes it more impactful. Because people, one thing I believe that when you share it from your heart, it always reaches another heart. Guys somehow orchestrate the words that need to touch where they need to touch.

And that's just where I be at on most days, you know what I mean, because I don't know who he's going to sin to give me what it is. need to receive. But if I keep my mind open when they show up, I can be receptive to what they're talking about. And because he ain't coming, but he'll send somebody. And I need to be open for to somebody, because somebody's going to come. And they're going to come with something directly from him. And it's coming through them for you. You just got to make sure you keep your mind open. That's why when they talk about open-mindedness and willingness, I understand those things. Because if you ain't willing to change, you won't change. You got to be willing. And sometimes life

will put situations in your path to make you to want to start wanting to change. And that's what happened for me. Thank God. You know what I mean? Because like I say, some of my friends, they didn't make it. They lost their life early. 18, 19. Bullets in the back. Bullets in the head, you know what I mean? And I'm still here, man. So I'm truly, truly, truly grateful for where I'm at in my life. You know what I mean? And when I reached back to try to help others, you know, that's probably the most rewarding

feeling that I get when the guy say, man, I remember when I met you, man, and I got in your car and all you did was taught recovery to me. You know what I mean? It makes you feel good about what you're doing. Then you see that guy four, five years later, and he's still living this way, you know. Read domain free, but you can be free if you choose to. You just got to be willing to put some work in.

That's what I had to learn, that if I wanted to be free, it was some things that I had to learn how to do. And I just got around some people that were doing. doing it because I wanted to learn. You know what I mean? And I watched them guys. I paid close attention to them. And I always remember how it was always willing

to help somebody else reach back. Because I know early on they used to tell me, man, just get in the car, man. We're going to Cleveland. I said, what? I ain't got money. We didn't ask you if you had any money. Just get in the car. You know what I mean? And I do the same thing to people. Just

get in the car. Let's go. I got you. Don't worry about it. You know what I mean? Because I get paid in a whole other kind of way. I get paid spiritually, you know what I mean? And for me, life ain't never been better, man. Right now, I've been, I've been in court battling, trying to get custody of my daughter, right? This has been going on for a few years, but I ain't given up the fight, right? But God is so And his infinite wisdom, man, he sent two other kids. It's not my kids biologically. But they're my kids because I get an opportunity

to be a beacon of light to them to show them what a real man entails. You know what I mean? And that's how I see it. It's just an opportunity for me to be that to them. Whether they realize or recognize it or not, once they get to a certain level in life, they're going to say, man, I remember that guy.

Man, he used to do this for me. He used to do that. And I ain't looking for nothing in return because I'm already getting it. God is blessing me to be able to just do that. You know what I mean? Because 20 years ago, I could have did that. I wouldn't have did that.

You know what I mean? But him working on me and working on my spirit allowing me to mature spiritually, that's the God. to get old and mature spiritually. Because there's always going to be something else in life to learn. And I was just to my girl today. At 68, I'm still learning.

I'm learning as I go. I don't know everything. And I don't pretend to act like I know everything. You know what I mean? But I take information as I receive it. And when I can digest it, I take it. You know what I mean? Because I don't know who is going to send.

Who's going to give me the information? I just try to make sure I stay receptive to it. when it show up, you know, because information is what gets us to the next level. Whatever information I'm feeding myself, whatever information I'm running on, and life is really, it's probably better than it's ever been for me right now. What type of person do you think you were in prison? I was solid. I had to be.

You know, I was a nice looking dude. I couldn't afford to have no cracks in my arm. because, you know, but prison, even when I was going to those juvenile places, and it's amazing how the vicious cycle. It was one guy I met when I was 15. And every prison I ever went to, he was there. He was from Cleveland. I was from Toledo.

Every prison I went to, and then when I told him, I said, man, I was in prison in the state of Illinois. He said, I was in prison in Terahut while you were in the vicious cycle. It just keeps repeating itself. So a lot of those guys that I met at 15, I was in maximum security with because the information, when it don't change, the result stays the same. The information has to change. You would make sense out of going to prison, out of habit. Because guys become accustomed to felon. They be afraid of success.

They don't even know what it looked like. And then when they do start to get it, it'd be so uncomfortable to them. They figure out a way why they need to disqualify themselves from it. You know what I mean? Out of habit. Bad habits. Bad habits, they don't go away. They fight to stay alive, right?

And I learned that over the years that the only way to get rid of a bad habit is to replace it with something that's healthy. because bad habits, they don't, they don't never leave. That's why you see people, you know, do stuff 15 years later, they'll revert back to that sick behavior. What happened to your parents? God bless me to allow both of my parents to see me turn my life around. My dad, 10 years, my mom, 11 years.

But both of them passed on. But they both got an opportunity. And I thank God for that every day because it was their prayers. I wasn't one of them guys getting in trouble praying and asking God that one. It was their prayers. I always say that it's only through the grace of a merciful God and a praying mother that I'm able to be anywhere doing anything today. You know, because my mother, she never stopped praying. Then I used to say, the greatest thing that ever happened was a three-way telephone.

because she was always praying with somebody on the phone about me. When they created a three-way telephone, she could click people in, and they could click people in. Now you got eight people on the phone on different lines, and they are praying. So prayer changes things, and I believe that. You know, I had another opportunity to see prayer at its best, at a niece, She had like five heart attacks.

She probably was about 30-some years old. And I was just getting clean. I had about nine months clean. So I was able to be there at the hospital every day. And I watched them, doctors tell my sister that she probably will never be the same because she didn't have two cold blues and three other heart attacks. And I watched my family come together in the visiting room and hold hands and pray. And in the end, I watched my niece walk out of their laughing and joking.

It was just, it was amazing. You know, and I told her then, I said, I don't know if that message was for you or for me. But it enhanced my faith. You know, because when we talk about things of, talking about things that are the spirit, we talk about things as unseen. You don't see faith. But it exists amongst us every day. You don't see the wind, but if it's blowing, you feel the effect of it.

And you see gravity, you know, if you get on top of this building and jump, it's going to pull you to the pavement. Those are the laws that govern the universe. They're going to be with us every day. But ain't nobody here, they'll be here. Words are spirit form. You know, I believe that no matter how far down life has taken a person, as long as life is within that person, there's a small flicker of hope on the inside of that person. That hope, it can't be extinguished as long as life is within you.

The way God got it set up and design that somebody else has to fan the flame, they ignite the light that's within you. And they always do that with words. There's something that clicks the light on inside of you. When you hear the right word, when you hear it, you'll know it. Because it'll move something inside of you. And that was my experience. I believe that everybody has that same experience,

especially when they didn't have been down to the lowest point, that lowest form of life that they can be on, then all of a sudden to show you how powerful God is, though, he'll take that one person, stand him up, clean him up, give him a message that he can reach back and help others. That person that everybody counted out, now that person has become the count it on. once God get that to him

there's no stopping you know what I mean because he always going to have something to give because God keep providing it and I don't know about anybody else but I believe that the spiritual part of life

is really the meat and potatoes and if I'm waking up every day and I'm not headed or geared my life towards the spiritual part I'm missing the mark Did your dad ever got sober before he passed? No.

No. When he went to the nursing home, he said, I went out there to see him. He said, you know they say I'm dying, right? I said, yeah, Papa, I heard, man. He said, promise me that you'll make sure I have something to smoke and something to drink. That was his wish. As his son, that's what I did.

my sister and him was like, man, how you? I said, they told him, man, he's dying. This is dying wish. I'm his son. I'm not going to do it. You know what I mean? They didn't understand that at first, but I made them realize that he might never walk out of here.

Matter of fact, he don't believe he's going to ever walk out of here. You know what I mean? So who am I to say no? I mean, over the years, he gave me some things. You know what I mean? They always went to my liking, but I learned some lessons from me.

You know, the one lesson I got was to never physically put my hand on a woman. I got that from him by watching him. You know what I mean? So a lot of times we get stuff from people that, and then the hard work part, I watched my dad. Like I said, he was a construction worker. He would come home at 5 o'clock Monday through Friday, sit at the dining room table.

He wouldn't move to 9 o'clock. but he had been laying brick all day, you know, and that work ethic, it spoke volumes, even though I wasn't doing it. It still spoke volumes, you know. And when I started working, I understood why he did what he did the way he did it, you know, because a lot of times people take pride in the wrong things. Take pride in your work performance. That's what I learned from watching here.

What do you think three decades of prison has done to you now? Made me a much better person. That I do know. You know, it has made me really fully mature spiritually. And the sky is the limit. Once you start tapping into that kind of stuff, man, it's not, it's no how high you can go. It's no limit to it.

You know what I mean? Because I know I ain't going back there. I don't care what happened. That is not going to be a part of my story ever again. You know what I mean? So I thank God for those lessons, though. I thank God for that. Do you think there are negative effects of doing that much time?

I mean, now that you're older and, you know. Of course. I believe, yeah, of course. But you can't let the negative outweigh the positive. You know what I mean? I learned some valuable lessons in that. in life, you know. In prison, you got to be able to really read people well.

It don't take a whole lot. I see how a psychiatrist will be able to do stuff now when they talk to people. You know what I mean? You got to be able to read people. Sometimes it's about survival in there. You know what I mean? And you got to be able to differentiate who's real and who's not because your life can depend on it.

You know what I mean? And I believe the same thing out here, you know. If you're faking, I ain't faking with you. I'm going to just get the hell away from you. When prison is such a big part of your life, you know, you've done so much time. Do you think about it often? Of course. Matter of fact, I had a job where I was going back to prison every Tuesday to speak about a year and a half ago, two years ago.

That was part of my job going into a facility speaking. I enjoyed every moment of it because the feeling that I had when I came out of it. See, life is still about wanting to feel good. I always want to feel good. Most of us do. We want to feel good. And when I came out of there, I always felt good. Even though I know what I did while I was in there was get them guys some hope.

I see a lot of them ain't going to never get out of there. And some of them was there when I was in maximum security. Some of them was there in the same facility I was in walking around. They still there 50 years later. You know what I mean? I'm like, man. That shit was a trip. But, you know, it just was a constant reminder of what you don't want to do.

What happened to the probation officer you shot? I have no idea. I haven't never seen him. I ain't looking for him. I hope I'll never run it to him. You know what I have no idea. But one thing I know about them kind of jobs, they can be lifetime jobs, you know.

But in my area, I've seen guys that were parole officers become dope fiends on the, job because they arresting guys that they know are hustling, they taking stuff off of them, and they're keeping it, and they start using it. I didn't seen it happen. You know what I mean? So you got a badge, but if you ain't working on you, if you ain't doing nothing, the better you, that badge don't mean nothing.

You know, and that's a lot of, that's why you see a lot of crooked police, a lot of crooked this, a lot of crooked debt, because it's the character, it's the substance of your that matters. You know what I mean? If you have no substance to your character, shit, they don't really mean nothing. You know what I mean?

That's why I'm so grateful for where I'm at because I've there is some work on myself to become better to see things different. You know what I mean? I used to not understand how my mom used to see the good

and everybody. You try to see good in people and you hope they can get there. But if they can't, get there, then I can't let you hold me up with where you're at. If I can help you get there, I will. But if I see you ain't trying, I ain't waste my time. I mean, I just can't. I can't get caught up because everybody don't want stuff out of life. They just don't. They give up. They give up, man. That's a, it's a, it's a hell of a thing to see somebody get.

give up the will to live. And you recognize it for what it really is. You know what I mean? They don't want to better themselves. They don't want to go no farther. They cool right where they're at. They stagnated, right? And I'm okay with that.

That ain't good for me. But I see it. I recognize it for what it is. You know what I mean? And I have to be able to differentiate. Because I ain't getting caught up in that. You got right to be there. That's where you choose to be.

It's like I got a right to be doing what I'm doing. If you don't want better, I can't make you do better. If you don't want better, you know what I mean? Even though I want it for you, you got to want it for yourself. That's why it always says it's inside job. Whatever you're looking for, it's already within you. But you've got to be able to tap into it. It's already there.

God made all of us whole. I mean, you find some people here and there that really have mental issues. because of trauma, unaddressed trauma, that never got dealt with, and it just keep going in another direction. And then you get to a point where you had the point of no return. You can't get back on the other side. You know what I mean?

But it ain't their fault. Somebody else calls that. Somebody, you know, something in life calls it. Might have been a stepdad or might have been a stepdad or might be there. You know, it's all kind of different reason why stuff like that happened to people, though. You know what I mean? And for the most part, you try to see the good for people,

and you try to help them get there if they want to go. But you can't make them. That's one thing I learned about life. You can't make nobody do anything that they don't want to do. What do you think you missed out in life the most? I ain't going to say I missed anything. You know, because what happened to me really turned out to happen for me. You know what I mean?

It's through the pain and the suffering, the failure that I'm able to be doing what I'm doing today. Because it changed my passion. It changed my empathy. It changed my humility. You know, it changed my integrity. It helped me mold that to right where I'm at. You know what I mean? I feel good about who I am and what I'm.

doing, man. I'm living my best life, you know, and it's all been, I wouldn't trade it in for nothing, you know, it's all been well worth it, even through the failure, through the pain. It's all been worth it, you know, but I understand in life that sometimes you have to go through things to get to something, you know what I mean? Life don't always, it ain't always pieces and cream as much as we would like for it to be, it's not always like that. You know what I mean? You have to go through.

And I believe that most people that has really went through and suffered and almost gave up but didn't give up and got through to the other side, those are the people that he used the most. You know what I mean? because they got something to give. They got that practical experience.

You know what I mean? And I remember back early on, this guy used to always say to me, he said, man, if it ain't practical, he said, yeah, if it ain't practical, it ain't spiritual. He said, man, why this dude keeps saying that to me? And it's so true.

Practical simply means useful. If it ain't useful, then it's not spiritual. And it's not spiritual. It's not conducive to what we're trying to do. So why would I continue to hold on to it? So I had to learn early in my process that some of that stuff I had to discard because if the dope don't get you the lifestyle or get you, I had to learn that. You know what I mean?

I had to bag myself up from them dudes that I was hanging with in the street. Y'all still in the street. I ain't there. You know what I mean? I go to work every day. I'll get a paycheck. You know, I remember. My mother friend said, man, you got a job?

I said, yeah, man, he said, how much they pay you? I said, they give me $5, $75 an hour. He said, are you serious? I said, yeah. He said, man, you can get $5 every hour from somebody on the quarter. What does you do it, man? But I told him, that's what they told me. You got to find a new way to live.

And that's what I was doing. I was finding a new way. working was just part of it. You know what I mean? Today I enjoy working, man. I enjoy, because I work in the field of substance abuse and mental health. I enjoy helping others, man. That's probably my greatest reward, being able to reach back to help somebody else

that haven't found a way out. You know what I mean? Because it's a way out. Do you blame your dad for what you went through? No, I don't really blame him, but it played a major part. I don't blame nobody. Life just sometimes shows up, you know what I mean? And how you deal with life is really a determining factor.

I dealt with it wrong. You know what I mean? But I dealt with it the best way I could for me. And that's why I'm here. What would you say to someone that's struggling with addiction, right? now. Don't give up and find somebody that you can talk to, not just talk to, but has the ability to tell you the truth. Because it's the truth that set us free. You know what I mean? I was always told that as a kid. Boy, the truth was what set you free. I didn't know what I didn't, I didn't, I didn't

buy into that then, but I buy into it now. You know what I mean? My mom always told me that, boy, you just line. He'd catch me with my hand in the jar, and I lie automatically. You know what I mean? But today I understand that just tell the truth. What people do with the truth is on them. My first, my dude that first, you know, started working with me. That's what he used to always tell me all the time.

Your dude is to make sure you tell the truth. What people do with the truth is on them, man. A lot of times people can't understand. They can't digest the truth. That's what it be. So now that I can't digest it, I'll run from it. You know what I mean? I'll justify why it's okay to not adhere to it.

And when you do that, you always have to get back in the line. Because he's going to see to it that you get the lesson eventually. You know what I mean? If the disease don't kill you, he's going to see to, God going to see to it that you get the lesson. Because it's a lesson in it. you know, you just got to be receptive to it. If you're not receptive, then a little more pain, a little more suffering, little more this, a little more that. All negative stuff happens, you know what I mean?

But if you get it, then you can use it for the rest of your life. You know, once you get the experience, you understand, man, I can always tap back into this. It don't never go nowhere. I mean, that's why I tell people all the time, man, I got some lessons, you know, and I know how to get around people. I know how to play past people today. Because a lot of people be sick. And they don't address their sickness.

When they don't address their sickness, they'll act on it. You know what I mean? You can't expect nothing from them if you already know they're sick. Other than sick people do what sick people do. They'll do anything to anybody just about at any time. because they ain't got nothing they're standing on. The substance of your character should be what you're standing on. That should mean something to you.

You know what I mean? You should take, that's what you should take pride in, the fact that you being honest. You understand. Because, see, I understand today. This is easier for me to be understanding than trying to be understood. I understand situations today. I don't need you to understand me

I don't need to be understood I need for me to understand you ain't got to understand I need to understand you know what I mean and that's something that I hold on to because I don't people man I'm telling you

and I love people but sometimes when you recognize certain things in them then you have to pay real close attention to it you know I mean because people will they will be hateful in that sickness. You know, people you sometimes, even people you might think you cool with. If they don't address that jealousy and that envy, yeah, push it on you.

You know, the very person you thought you was all right with, you know, they, people just have a whole lot of ways, man, to hurt you if they ain't working with nothing. and I'd be aware of that kind of stuff because I don't want you around me if I know you ain't standing on something you gotta be standing on something. I remember I used to always hear people say you stand for some of you fall for anything.

That's so true, you know. If you ain't standing on something, no substance to your character, you're going to go for it, whatever. You know, and you will treat me according to that. And I ain't been to let you just treat me no any kind of way.

Sometimes I know it's okay for me to separate myself from you. And that's what I do. I learned how to separate myself from people, especially people that don't mean me no good, you know what I mean? Because people have a right to be where they're at. I just have a right to protect me at all costs.

And that's what I try to do. You know, I try to protect myself, man. And this new way of life has been so rewarding. You know what I mean? So rewarding. I just, I just, today I'm finding myself, like right now, coming down here, this was something that I didn't think I was going to do, but I understand that this was an opportunity of me to be doing something different.

You know what I mean? Because if I was at home right now, I probably would be on my way to a meeting or something, but here I am here, doing what I'm doing? I'm doing. And this is another platform. I believe that you get a chance to tell your story. You get a chance to get the information out because everybody needs to hear information that can help them get to a certain level of life. And it's always about the information I believe, always. If I'm taking in bad information, then it's going to show. It's going to reflect in my behavior. You know, if I'm taking in some good and healthy information,

that's going to show too. That's going to reflect, you know, because I'm going to be able to get past a lot of things that used to would have me baffled. They don't baffle me no more. I'd be able to get right by it, you know what I mean, stuff that used to have me on the run, have me messed up.

It don't do that to me no more. You know, I see stuff of what it is. I see people for who they are. You know what I mean? I ain't sugar-coating it. I ain't dressing it up. It is what it is. That's reality.

It is what it is. You know what I mean? Reality and in reality, I learned that ain't no faking in it. It's genuine wine. Reality is a state of being genuine wine. If I ain't doing that, then I'm selling myself short. I'm selling whoever I'm dealing with short, you know, and that ain't good.

You know, because everybody wants something from in a relationship. Everybody wants something because the relationship. Because the relationship is be effectively relating with you. If I ain't giving you nothing, you ain't giving me nothing, what are we doing? You know what I mean? We're wasting each other's time, so to speak. You know what I mean? I can be doing something totally different, you know?

So, yeah, I'm real grateful, man, where I'm at in my life, you know. Thank God for the program that he navigated me to, you know. it changed helped change my life and me you know thank god for the program you know thank god for all the life lessons that i received along the way you know thank god for those episodes of my life where i didn't lose my life and it was of several incidents where i could have lost my life you know but now when i reflect back on it different situations, he always was orchestrating. I didn't understand it then, but I understand it now.

You know what I mean? Like, well, my one friend, he got killed. Me and him was going to do some stickups. I was just coming home from juvenile institution. We went to go meet a guy by some guns. And when we got there, the guy wasn't there. When we was walking away from the people's house, the girl next door stopped me and said, man, when you come on?

she said, I want to give you this number, and my friend, my cousin wants you to get in touch with her. And I got in touch with the girl. And that night, I didn't go back, but my friend them went without me. He got killed in armed robbery. You know, it's just different situations like that, man. I knew now I can look back and say, damn, he was watching over me even in that stuff. You know what I mean? Just like with that parole officer, he was watching over me, you know?

I didn't never know, though, in that all those times, man, he was sitting me down in those prisons. He was trying to get my attention. He was rescuing me from me because I was my own problem. The things that I was doing, thank God he was getting my attention. A lot of my friends, right, older, they're my age and older. All of them got breathing, Astridis attached to him if they ain't. dead. You know what I mean? I just thank God, man, I don't have, I don't have that. You know, like when I came home from the institution, some of my close buddies was smoking crack,

and I seen the effect it had. I said, no, I ain't doing that. That was one time I was able to look at somebody else and say, I ain't doing that. You know what I mean? And I never smoked crack. You know, I was always, when I was getting high, I was IV drug, but smoking crack, man, I seen the damage that it did to so many people, you know, it just, it tore my whole community up, for real. And I know a lot of other communities all over across the country, you know, but that was the one time I was able to look at somebody else and say, I ain't doing that. because if that would do that to him, it'll do it to me. You know, and those kind of life lessons, you know, normally I ought to be like,

shit, let me try it. That's the one thing I'm saying. I ain't trying that shit. I don't care what happened. No, not no smoky crack, right? Because my friend, me and him came home the same day. And this guy in my life. neighborhood, he looked out real swell for me. And my friend was right there. But me and him,

I came on prison. He came on from the county jail. And the next day, when I went down there, he was, I said, man, y'all seen my dude? They said, yeah, he back there on the side of the house. Like, what would the hell he be doing on the side of the house? And when I called him, I seen him when he came out, that dopefein look was all over him. And he didn't ask me how I was doing, None of that. You got some of that stuff, dude, gave you. And then I'm looking at his attire, right? He still got the same clothes on.

Man, what they do that shit? And it just blew me away, man, you know? And it let me know right when I saw that, when I witnessed that, that wasn't something I needed to try, you know, because it would have that same effect on me. That was the one thing that I saw. I've never wanted to try was crap. So, you know, sometimes that, like I say, that prison thing, he rescued me from me.

You know what I mean? Now I understand when they be saying, you your own worst enemy. Because when you don't have a healthy relationship with yourself, it's hard to have a healthy relationship with somebody else. when you'll have one with yourself. Everything's starting to end with me. If I started, I've got to be able to stop it, right? For a long time, I couldn't stop it

because I had no information on how to stop it. Once I started tapping into the information, I've been able to stop a whole lot of things that came my way. I've been able to get around them, the sidestep them. You know what I mean? Don't have to act on them. Because I see, you get a chance to see things for what they really are, you know what I mean? And if it ain't going to be conducive to how I'm living, then why would I indulge in it?

You know what I mean? And that's just my take on it, man. I just know that. And learning from watching others, that's some shit wise people do. They learn from watching other people. They know that I don't have to make that mistake because it had messed me up just like it means. them up, you know, so I just want to be one of them people that can do that, see stuff of what it is, know that ain't nothing good going to come from it.

Well, I take myself there, that ain't, that ain't healthy, you know, because the goal for me is just get old and stay healthy, you know, health as wealth. When you're 68 and been locked up all your life and counted out most of your life, you know what mean, now I'm being the one that's counted on, you know what I mean? I get an opportunity. I got about about seven guys I sponsor, you know, so life has took on a whole other meaning. And to me, the ultimate thing is when somebody comes to you and say, man, will you be my guy, will you guide me through this? And I take pride in that. You know what I mean? Because God has allowed me to have an opportunity to be a service to him through

helping that guy. You know what I mean? So I take that stuff real serious and I don't downplay it, you know. And guys that want to be sponsored, they do what is, they do what they need to do because they learn early like I did. You got to value sponsorship. You got to value that somebody that will help guides you through life. They don't want nothing in return.

You know what I mean? they're going to be up straight up with you you know and they ain't going to pull no punches they ain't on sugarcoat your dumb stuff you know what I mean and that's man that's that's a that's a miracle all in itself right miracles I learned about miracles and miracles is a supernatural gift that only God can give man can't give miracles you know I mean so God plays service things in certain people's lives for a reason, you know, and that's the miracle, you know. For a long, long time, I didn't see that like that, but today I can, because all this stuff we talk about is spiritual, you know, whatever, you feed yourself spiritually, determines what

it's coming, you know, so I'm just grateful to be here, grateful to be at Connecticut, you know, And in closing, right, I always like to share this, that you can make one decision, and that decision can change your life forever. And if you make the decision based on the hope that we find in life, we trust in our creator. If we base that decision based on the fear, then we trust in the disease. And that's where I'm at. You know, I don't want to trust the disease because I don't have to. have to be fearful of life.

I'm supposed to enjoy life. You know, so the hope that I've been given, man, is on the inside, you know, coming from a hopeless state of mind to being hopeful. It's a blessing all in itself, you know. I've been blessed, truly blessed. Well, I appreciate you coming on the show today, Al. I appreciate you having me. Thank you.

Thank you. And safe travels back. Amen. Thank you.