Locked In with Ian Bick - I SOLD Drugs In NYC Nightclubs Then Went To Prison | Jason Abreu

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

Jason Abreu grew up in a good family, on track to become a lawyer, until the recession blew up his plans and pushed him into the New York City nightlife scene. What started as legit nightclub promoting slowly turned into moving drugs through NYC clubs, big money, fast nights, and a double life he thought he had under control. Then undercover cops took him down, and Jason was sent to New York state prison. He got out, went right back to the game, and got caught again, earning a second trip upstate. In this episode, Jason sits down with me and breaks down exactly how it happened: the first bad decision, how the nightclub world really works, the rush of easy money, the takedown, and what New York state prison is actually like on the inside, from daily politics to survival _____________________________________________ #NYC #NewYorkStatePrison #PrisonLife #UndercoverCops #DrugDealing #NightclubCrime #TrueCrime #prisonstories _____________________________________________ Thank you to 300 LETTERS for sponsoring this episode: Visit http://300letters.org/ to learn more or get support. Your donation to 300 Letters is an investment in safer neighborhoods & healthier families. _____________________________________________ Connect with Jason Abreu: Instagram: @madeupnorthnyc Podcast IG: @offthecountpodcast _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 From Prison Transfer To State Property 00:44 Jason Abreu: Good Kid, Good Family 02:23 Wanted To Be A Lawyer, Stayed Out Of Trouble 04:34 How NYC Nightlife Pulled Him Off Track 06:14 Crash, Drugs & Ego: The Downward Spiral 11:12 Getting Shot In The Club & Feeling Invincible 16:47 Ignoring Trauma & Diving Deeper Into Nightlife 19:43 Drugs, Greed & His First Indictment 23:56 Undercover Cop Setup & The Arrest 27:38 Arrests, Bail Money & Mounting Consequences 33:39 First Time On Rikers Island 37:11 Plea Deal, Charges & Sentencing Explained 39:50 Upstate Prison Life: Politics & Violence 51:47 Survival Rules, OGs & Getting Ready For Release 54:07 Re-Entry, No Money & Old Temptations 59:13 Second Arrest & The Ultimate Betrayal 01:04:18 Resentment, Forgiveness & Coming Back To Prison 01:09:19 Second Bid: Pandemic Lockdowns Inside 01:12:21 Finding Purpose & Breaking His Own Cycle 01:15:56 “Made Up North” – Turning His Story Into A Movement 01:19:00 Avoiding Triggers & Staying Out Of The Game 01:22:31 Rebuilding Life, Writing The Book & Giving Back 01:24:41 Why His Story Matters & Final Message To Viewers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th. The powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamavat Theater.com. Only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You in? Must be 21 to enter. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right, so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points.

Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right. Bad advice? You talking to me? Kayak, got that right.

Feels like every product claims real protein these days. But real doesn't start on a label. It starts at the source. Like real California milk from California farm families, it's real dairy delivering high-quality, complete protein, with all nine essential amino acids to help build muscle, give you energy, and keep you satisfied longer. So keep it real.

Look for the seal. Real California milk. When they bringing you up from Rikers to go to get transph over there, it's like, um, they pull out this little black box. You know, like till this day, you still catch me having bad memories about that. You know, you can't move in that box. It's tied around your waist all the way down your feet, your ankles. Not to mention when you get to Ulster, they want you to know. They hands on and that they're not there to play those games.

Whatever games or disrespectful games, cast were doing in Rikers, talking to the CEOs, they let you know, you know, Ian, like. Listen, you just came, welcome to the state. This is not Rikers Island, you know, so they give you the fresh baldy. They pull you through a shower. Go through this, though, before you know, they throw you your towel. Then they give you a fresh set of greens, and that's it, you property of the state of New York. Jason Abru grew up in a good family and was supposed to be a lawyer, but the recession

pushed him into New York City nightclubs where promoting turned into selling drugs and living a double life. In this episode, he breaks down how the money and nightlife pulled him in, how under cover cops took him down, what New York State Prison is really like on the inside and why he got out, went right back to it, and ended up getting locked up a second time. Where'd you grow up, Jason? I grew up in New York, New York City, uptown Manhattan, Dykeman houses, to be exact. Who raised you?

My parents. I actually, you know, was fortunate enough to have a very beautiful upbringing, you know, raised by both parents. the youngest of four siblings. Tiny project apartment, but we were brought up with so much love and support that, you know, I can't say nothing otherwise. You know, that's why when you sit back in and think about the things I've been through,

you know, it just really doesn't fit in the equation, you know? What do your parents do for work? My father worked actually for a Jewish Federation, YMHA, and my mother was a home attendant. My father was a bus driver, you know, and I seen them growing up firsthand. Like, you know, they were working, working, you know. Their work ethic was impeccable, you know.

So that's what I saw growing up. What do you think was your favorite memory from childhood? I think, you know, the sports, you know, like I tried different sports, but regardless of whatever it was basketball or baseball, I always had that support from my father and my grandfather, you know, they were, they were me all that to take me to my games, you know, give me that support. So that's like my, you know, most beautiful as memory growing up. How would you have described yourself back then as a kid?

Aside, you know, from athletic, you know, passionate about sports, what else was there to you? A young Jason. I would have to say, Ian, like, I was very, believe it or not, ambitious and goal oriented, even at an early age, like whenever I set a goal, you know, I always made sure I accomplished it, you know. And being that, I saw that work ethic in my household growing up, I've always loved the work. You know, like I had my first summer job when I was 13. Did you have a career dream as a kid when you were a teenager?

I did. I did. You know, Ian, it's funny you asked that my whole dream, my whole aspiration growing up was actually to be a lawyer, you know. When I was in high school, my junior year, I was fortunate enough to get referred to this program where they set you up with internships. And in doing so, I got referred to work for one of New York City's most prestigious law firms, Paul Weiss. They were actually, you know, preparing me with my L sat, everything like that was my dream. You know, no one could tell me otherwise. And it's

crazy, you know, when you sit back and think about how I wanted to practice and exercise the law. And I went from that to actually having, you know, the law prosecute and judge me. It's crazy. But if there's one thing, and I think you could agree with me, Ian, is I'm not ashamed nor embarrassed to speak about my past because one thing I know is that our past, it doesn't define who we are today and where we're going, you know? So I have no problem speaking openly about mistakes I made. And if I can help someone in the course of it, see the mistakes I made so they can avoid

it. You know, I'm all good with it. Did you ever get into trouble as a kid? Really? I didn't. I didn't, you know, Ian. I didn't, I didn't know trouble, to be honest with you. I have issues until I got introduced into like the whole nightlife scene.

And how old are you when you got introduced to the nightlife scene? I want to say about my, I was about 23, 24. I had just actually not too long after I graduated college. I was actually, Ian, still working for this law firm. And around 2008 at the time, the market had crashed. a lot of people are getting laid off. So I end up losing my job. And in the midst of this, you know, I'm running around, applying, trying to get another job.

Someone actually proposed to me an opportunity if I wanted to be a club promoter. I really didn't know the ins and out how this work. But the way they proposed it to me, I'm like, man, I've signed me up. You know, they're like, yeah, you just got to bring people. You'll get paid. You know, so I started off submitting a guest list. And then something that started so small actually grew in. to something much bigger.

And that's when this character, Ian, that I used to identify myself with back in the days was born, which was Jason, I Party Hard. That was the name of my entertainment. And when I tell you, those that know me, I really lived up to that name, you know, like, I really party hard, you know. It was, that was how, I dove head into that scene. And granted, some of my best memories. But, you know, being in that whole nightlife.

life scene, I got introduced to people and things that I was never familiar with, you know? So little did I know at the time I'm thinking I'm living life, but I was signing my own contract for failure because that was around the time when my whole life started spiraling out of control. So do you think if the crash never happened, you never would have been sat on that path that would ultimately lead to prison? Honestly, Ian, I would have to say I don't think I never I think if I've never probably would have lost my job, there's no doubt in my mind that I would have, you know, pursue my career in law. Like, that was something that I was very adamant. It was place in my heart. And even the fact that I was working in a law firm with so many,

you know, prestigious attorneys, I'm looking at them. I'm seeing this on a daily. It's kind of as if I saw this for me in the future. There was no one to tell me that it was going to play out any other way. Does that keep you up at night ever just thinking, about that? Like, it could have went so differently, but instead something happened that was out of your control? For years, for some time, it did. You know, and I had to live with that. I had to deal with feelings of a failure. You know, I felt like I failed my parents. I felt they invested so much, you know, into my siblings and myself. And this is something that I will always boast to them about, yeah, I'm going to be a lawyer and to see them, you know, actually having to come to court,

to see me get sentenced, you know, not once but twice at that, there were times while I lost sleep over it. But as I've gotten deeper, you know, on my journey now, and since I've been able to find my purpose, I've actually been able to accept that because I've come to the terms that those things needed to happen so that I can actually become the man I am today and be here having to sit down with you to share my story,

to give hope to other people. Once you started having some success in the night, life, did you see that as your future and your passion and maybe your life's purpose? I did. I did. Actually, you know, from there came the whole idea of wanting to own a club, you know. Ian, I know you're familiar with that, you know? And that was my goal then.

I'm like, you know what? This is taking off from me. I went from submitting a guest list to get paid off of a guest list to now locking in my own contracts, my own parties with these club owners to doing some of the biggest parties, you know, all five boroughs, even in Miami. So now my mind, it goes back to what you asked me earlier. I always had this sense of being goal-oriented and very ambitious. Now I'm like, all right, I got to keep doing this, keep getting it together,

so eventually I could own my own place. But, you know, again, that scene, I just got introduced to certain other things. And at the time, it seemed like innocent fun to me. And little did I know that those. moments of decisions, you know, that I was making was going to come with consequences. Tell us about those first moments and decisions you're referring to. The first moment, all right, Ian, you know, I'm in that nightlife scene, you know, and that nightlife scene comes on the partying, the drinking, the woman, and the drugs.

That's something that it just goes hands and hands, you know. So regular routine, I'm in one of my parties. they introduced me to what at the time, you know, pills, ecstasy pills. So now, you know, I start, I try it out innocent fun. And from that moment comes now people being that they see me in the parties all the time. Now they're asking me if I'm able to get them some pills, you know. So at the time, I'm like, all right, I don't see like I'm doing anything wrong. I'm getting some pills, you know, in for myself, for my buddies, for some people here.

So I'm just seeing it as extra money. I'm looking at it like, I'm coming to my parties, I'm getting paid for my party, and now I'm making extra money off whatever little, you know, sales I'm doing here and there. So something that started off as that, then that's when that whole era of like the whole Molly thing came into a play, you know, and I went from the pills, I dove into that. And even with that situation, that was something that at the time started off small as innocent fun. And before you knew it, it grew.

It grew to a level where, you know, it led me to the whole consequences of having to deal with incarceration. But even before that, Ian, you know, to rewind, I would say the first incident that happened to me was actually March of 2014. Regular routine, I'm out after a party instead of going home. Again, I party hard. I want to keep the party going. So it's like we're trying to make our way to an after hours. I end up getting in a car accident with someone that I was with. In this car accident, I end up breaking the right side of my hip.

So I wake up in the hospital hours later, tubes everywhere with seven screws on my hip, a metal plate. I had to be on crutches for three months, physical therapy, the whole nine. And you would think that that's going to slow me up. But being that I already had this name, this image, Jason and I party hard, you know two weeks later i was back in the clubs standing on couches with crutches looking like a man man people looking at me like yo are you serious i have one crutch you know in one hand or drink in another hand like i was just living the moment you know i was i was living the moment and this kept on

for some time for some months after this until i had my first running with the law which was um actually 2015, but even before that, the biggest thing that happened to me that stemmed from that scene in was the fact that, um, I died. I got shot, you know, actually leaving, you know, like one of my parties. The car accident, March of 2014. Again, the feeling of invincibility. Fast forward with the tape, November 8th, same year. Um, I'm at one of my parties. Same thing again. Instead of going home like the normal person would do, the normal promoter is supposed to do, get your money from your party and go home. I'm Jason, I party hard.

I just want to keep the party going. I got my wife waiting for me at home and I go to an after hours. And on my way home, you know, as I'm approaching my destination in, it's about seven, eight in the morning. I see garbage trucks outside. They're picking up garbage.

son now, I just had a long night. I'm about to make my way to the door. I get out the cap. As I get to the door, as I approach the door, I start hearing gunshots. But at the time, I didn't even think it was gunshots. It's November 8th. And it sounded so low. I even, I remember looking around. I'm like, fireworks in November? Who's throwing fireworks at this time? That's what my mind was telling me. Now, little do I know when I get to the front of the door. And I look back, I start hearing, fume, fume, fume, like bullets. you know, ricocheting off the wall and passing the side of my ear. So when I finally look back, you know, Ian, there's this individual like 10 feet away from me

with a hoodie on just taking clear shots at me. Now, mind you, when I'm mad, it's like the entrance of a building where there's no place to run. So he had clear shot at me. And as I'm about to enter the door that my wife is entering, you know, opening the door for me, I remember getting hit in my lower back. And I just felt to my knees. my whole inside was burning. Like I remember the first thing I did was spit to see.

You know you see in movies. Guys get shot. They spit. They see blood. So I remember seeing the paramedics there. A lady who actually lived in the building across, saw what was happening. And until this day, Ian, I really think, and I believe that she had a big reason to save in my life.

Because like I said, I had no place to run. This individual was just. taking shots and he already saw I was hit on the floor and this lady by the graces of God opened the window and said, are you all right? And at that point, the individual ran off and that's when the paramedics came. I end up waking up hours later, tubes, I can't talk, my stomach's open. Like, I was bad. You know, when I finally opened my eyes that I see my parents, I noticed, you know, like blanking out again. And little did I know that I, At the moment, Ian, I had actually died.

I passed away in front of my parents. They had to rush them out the hospital room, you know, to resuscitate me to bring me to life. And it wasn't until after that the paramedics actually told me, you know, it was so serious that the doctors were even joking with me back then. Like, listen, you should try playing the lotto because if you have that same luck, I wasn't meant to survive. So, you know, Ian, it's like, here I was, God. I felt like showing me, giving me another intervention. You know, first I had the car accident, now this, so he's trying to show me like, listen, you keep living this life is only leading towards destruction.

But I wasn't trying to, I wasn't Ian trying to hear that. To be honest with you, after I recuperated, I had a machine and everything. And I didn't even fully recuperate until I was back out in the scene again as Jason and I party hard. Now, my ego went from 100 to a thousand, because now I'm thinking about it like, you guys try to shoot me, right? You try to take me out, but I survived. And that sense of invisibility, it went even, you know, what I was doing before that, Ian now is like I was doing at times a thousand, you know, if I was hustling before, I was hustling more. Now, if I was partying more, I was, you know, like, there was just no stopping me, you know.

Crack a Kamen Jack Margarita And taste your escape It's America's number one for a reason Kaman Jack is a premium malt beverage with flavors Please drink responsibly Kaman Jack beverage company Chicago, Illinois At first I didn't think it was real I woke up to this blinding light

And I was transported to another place Pluto TV Then I heard a voice Come with me if you want to live There were thousands of movies and shows And they were all free The truth is ours. It's just so beautiful.

On Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 NX files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials. No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette

with a flame throw. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero? More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. I just kept it going, you know? Now, what happened to the shooter?

Did you get arrested? I don't know, to be honest with you. You know, they never identify the shooter or whatnot, you know? So I left that in God's hands, to be honest with you, you know? Like I said, and that, Actually, though, Ian, that situation stems from something again that didn't even have nothing to be with me, have nothing to do with me. You know, a week prior, I had a party, you know, Halloween party, a very big party. It was sold out some individuals, you know, that happened to be at the same table with me.

They had gone in some scuffle, some situation or whatnot with people outside the club. And I guess being, you know how they say guilty by association. Those individuals that were involved in that fight, they must have seen it as, oh, you were in the table with those dudes, so we don't care who's who. We're just looking to get our get back what anybody. And me, you know, innocently, being in the way, you know, I got caught up in the crossfire. And that's why I share my story so people could notice, you know, could really understand the importance of when you sign up to hang out or affiliate yourself with certain people. just know that these bullets, they don't come with a name and it's very delicate and a very sensitive situation.

You might be hanging around with somebody and not knowing that. Now, their issues become their, you know, become your issues. And that's kind of like the situation that happened to me, you know. Do they ever come back after you again or do they leave it at that? No, they left it at that. But, you know, I won't lie to you, you know, even like getting shot and surviving a near-death experience is very traumatic, you know, so for some, for, you know, some point in my life, I had to deal with that trauma, you know, like, there will be certain situations, certain

places, you know, certain settings that I will be around, that it was like automatically PTSD. In the beginning, if I would see anybody put their hands in their pockets or whatnot next to me, my mind is already thinking that they're trying to take a gun out, you know, because it's a feeling like you have to go through it to really know, you know, what it really, really feels like, you know, but it's life changing, you know. Now, when you wake up from something like that, why go back to that same environment that put you in that same spot to begin with? Like I told you, you know, Ian, at this point, I felt I had developed a name for me.

You know, like I came into the game as a regular guestless promoter. Now I was a promoter. And now it got to the point where I actually felt happy knowing that people knew that I was promoting and I was also hustling on the side, which is kind of, Obviously, looking back at it now, very obviously dumb, you know, because why would you want anybody knowing your business? But again, that goes with your whole eagle, you know, and that's important to highlight because a lot of times your ego and your pride is ultimately the factors that do get you in trouble,

you know, because here I am after recuperating, after getting shot like you said, I should have just chilled out. And I had a friend at a time telling me, like, listen, and I don't even think you should go back to promoting. But I wasn't trying to hear that. I went right back to promoting, Ian. And like I said, I was doing everything times 10 now. I was worse than before, you know.

What was meant probably to slow me up and really use it as an experience to fall back and reflect, I used it to put the foot on the pedal and go crazy, you know? Now, the promoting itself wasn't the problem in your life. It was the drugs when introduced to the promoting. 100%. You know, that just, that, that was like a domino effect, you know, because then after, after, after, like, this situation, a few months down the line in, it was like one after another happening was my first indictment. You know, like, I got shot November 8th, 2014. By the time, I was already back out doing parties, ripping and running the streets.

A few months afterwards, October of 2015, was the first time I was indicted on my first case, on my first criminal case. Could you have made good enough money just off the promoting or you needed that drug income to supplement it? No, man, I'll be honest with you, you know. And you could make a lot of good money in promoting. You know, I actually know a lot of promoters who are very successful today, you know, because they've been able to find that balance and discipline and know was work and play, you know.

see like back then I lacked those things you know the discipline if I had the discipline and the mindset that I have today being back in that setting back then I guarantee you things will be different but back then it wasn't about that but to answer your question you don't need that that that's just you being greedy that's just you wanting more because I could speak you know like I said for a lot of promoters I know you have a background in that yourself too you know Ian, there is good money to make, you know. And it's like everything else. And, you know, you lose money as well.

Sometimes you put up a venue. You put up an event. It don't go as planned. You either lose money. You break even. But you make good money, man. How much were you making once you started implementing the drugs into it? I mean, I'll put it to you like this, Ian.

I think I was making an amount of money, you know, when I was hustling. on a different level that I was, I started to develop a sense of negligence for my, for my parties. Like, and the partners that I was involved in certain parties, they kind of started noticing because as a promoter, you're supposed to actually show up early to your venue, you know? Be responsible. Make sure everything is situated. But it got to a point where now I was generating so much money off of, you know, the hustling on the side, you know, not to be responsible. put a number on it, you know, Ian, but just so you could have an idea, I was making that amount of money hustling that I really didn't care about the promoting. And mind you, I'm talking about

some of the parties I had back then, we would make $1,500, $2,000 a night, you know, and that's where that whole sense of greed, you know, kicks in. A lot of times you think more is better and honestly, less is more. And that's something that I've been definitely able to appreciate and learn, especially now on my journey, you know, working legitimately nine to five. I want to take a moment to talk about an organization that's doing real work for justice-impacted families, not just talking about second chances, but actually building them. 300 letters was founded by Amanda and Legend Tarver, two people who've lived incarceration, reentry, and the strain that puts on families.

This isn't theory. This organization was built from lived experience. 300 letters supports people coming home from incarceration. and the families who stand by them through trauma-informed coaching, family therapy, caregiver support, and programs that help people truly rebuild their lives. This isn't about handouts, it's about healing, accountability, and restoring families who've already paid the price. If you're justice impacted in reentry, supporting someone who is, or you simply believe

families deserve real resources to heal and move forward, I encourage you to check them out. visit 300letters.org to learn more or get support. And if you're able to give your donation to 300 letters is an investment in safer neighborhoods and healthier families. So when's that first time you get arrested? That was in October. You know, again, like you said, what were some of the things that came out of that scene?

From that scene, I was introduced, you know, into a female from a friend of mine. Little did I know this female was on the, cover. She came to me like everybody else, you know, Ian, that was in the club, just looking to have fun, you know, trying to act for some pills, you know, trying to have for some party favors, as I will call them. I didn't think nothing of it. And she's getting introduced, you know, I got introduced to her by my friend, a good friend of mine at the time. So I'm like, he's not going to introduce me, you know, to, to know on the cover. And it's crazy because it was like, it was

that she wasn't obviously trying to make it obvious you know Ian so she was never asking for nothing crazy or nothing you know it was little sales here let me get this yeah for my week for my weekend I'm going away with my boyfriend and then one day when I went you know to meet up with this with this girl and it's funny because I kind of had the feeling I remember speaking to you know my girlfriend of mine who actually got locked up with me in this incident steady I told them you know I think she might be an undercover because now my friend had told me that he had feelings to believe that she was on the cover. So I'm thinking in my head, is she or is she not?

So we end up meeting up right where I'm at, right where I'm at, right where I'm born and raised, Ian in indictment one day for a regular routine meetup. She gets in the car and I'll never forget. As I'm telling you this right now, Ian, I'll never forget her face. She took what I handed her, gave me the money, and looked at me dead in my eyes and said, thank you. Like on some, thank you. You know, we just built, we got you on the case now.

Soon as she exited the car, I drive up the block with my boy. And right there, they just hopped out on me in, like 8, 10, DA agents. And I just remember my boy telling me, yo, she was undercover. My heart dropped. The first time going through this in the system. I'm in my early 30s. You know, I didn't touch the system until I was in my early 30s, you know. But that just goes to show that the system don't discriminate, you know. And if you do things, certain things, make certain choices that come with consequences, they're not going to hesitate

to lock you up. So this is going on. They throw me in the back of a paddy wagon, me, my boy. And while this is going on, they break in my parents' house, you know, because that's the address they had at the time for me at the record. So it was like something drastic, very humiliating for me to even have to put my parents through that, you know, especially with the upbringing they gave me. But I really don't know at the time how was the severity of it. And then they bring me to the precinct and come to find out these guys pull out in like a hundred page indictment, you know. They were alleging in the indictment that supposedly I was running a whole street team that was on peddling, you know, drugs, e-pills, Mali, all of that. in the clubs and in other areas in other vicinities.

So I'm like, wow, now I'm looking at it like, wow, this is serious, you know? So now I'm going through the system. Of course, you know, the cops right away, they're trying to break me like, yo, you know, we've been following you for over a year. They're starting to third. And I'm like, I'm not trying to speak to nobody. I just want to go see the judge, see a lawyer. They actually give me a bail.

and I had to wait three weeks before my bail was approved. You know, they had approved the money was legal. So I end up bailing out like the third, fourth week of October. And when I got out of court, when my bail was finally approved, Ian, what you think I did? Went back to selling drugs. I went right to a cell phone store, got me another two, three phones. And I went to a party last that night, too. Like, you know, like, it was just the sense of invisibility.

I was so used to going through certain things, you know, and getting by that I felt that I couldn't be stopped, you know, and it goes to show you that in due time, if you don't humble you, humble yourself, life will humble you, you know. Why do you think that didn't scare you? That's your first time ever arrested. I don't know, you know, and it's funny because, you know, when you're in that setting, I always, you know, like people used to tell me this when I went off the first time, you know, the old time is like, it's very easy for you to be in there and preach a good one,

like, oh, you're not going to go back to the things you were doing. But once you get that first width of freedom, fresh air, you know, Ian, it's like, you forget everything that you just went through because those three weeks, I was in the tombs in the detention center in Manhattan. So, you know, those three weeks, I was. already going crazy, but when I came out, you think I thought about that I just said, you know what, let me keep it going. And here I am, again, caught up in the same cycle. You heard in the partying, the woman, you know, the hustling. And fast forward the tape,

I'm out on bail, mind you, six months later, and I get up, and I end up getting caught up in another situation. You heard even while I'm out on bail with my same individual that I was with the first time. Steady, this guy is like, I was with him and we went to meet up with another friend of ours, you know, we're going on a smoke ride. We're not thinking nothing of it. We go and meet up with this individual and we take him so he could go take care of some business over there in the Bronx. Little did we know that this guy, you know, in a friend of ours that we had back then, he was actually already, you know, being watched by the cops. So just off of the fact, that they observed him getting out of the vehicle that me and my friend was in, you know,

we went down for that. We had nothing to do with that situation, you know, Ian, once they took us to the precinct, they were actually going to let me and my guy go because, like I said, we're just in the drive. He's driving and I'm a passenger. We don't have no drugs on us or nothing. And again, it just goes how delicate and how easy it is like this to get caught up into something just by putting yourself around the wrong people, places, and things.

Because had I not been in that car that day, Ian, things probably would have been different. I probably would have not caught that second case. But because I was out on bail on that prior case and they took us to the priest and they read, you know, when they fingerprinted us, or our priors came out, the cops told us straight up, they're like, listen, well, you know, they were bragging about it. They were happy. They were like, we got a win today. We were just going after your buddy.

But now we got four of you in this situation. We were going to let you go for because, you know, you guys are out on bail on a previous case. It was looking crazy, you know. So crazy in that when we finally saw the judge, you know, the judge told me and this guy, my co-defendant, like, oh, you guys caught another case together. You guys must really enjoy catching cases together. They had to throw their old little sense of humor there or whatnot. But guess what?

I still wasn't ready to stop. I still wasn't ready to change. You know, Ian, I end up bailing out again. They give you bail? They gave me bail. They gave me bail. But check this out. I bailed.

And the lawyer had told me, like, listen, you bailed out the first time and you bailed out the second time. But now this case also, you guys got indicted on the second case. So it's being moved. to Supreme Court in Manhattan, 111 Supreme. And guess where it got moved to, Ian, to the same judge who we had from the first case? So when I went for my first court date on this case, I'm up there from the beginning. As soon as I went up there, the prosecutor's ripping me.

They're like, Your Honor, listen, we're asking that you remand this gentleman's bail right now. He's out on a prior drug indictment. He bailed out. He just got caught up again. and he bailed out. And that's exactly how it went down. You heard Ian, like, mind you, I was still in recovery mode. Like, I had these little, um, drainage just hanging from my stomach that used to, you know,

circulate the, you know, circulate the blood coming out because I had just had surgery because of that whole, um, gunshot wound incident. And my lawyer's like, Your Honor, look at his conditions. He wasn't trying to hear that. He cited with the prosecutors. They took over. They remanded me. They exonerated my baby.

and that it was over. But that just goes to show you how screw up the system is that that other judge in the same city let you out on a bail. Exactly. And then this other judge takes it away. They really never should have let you out to begin with. To begin with, honestly, you know, but instead they let me out in. I was out for like four weeks.

My very next court day, this was June of 2016. I got remanded, but now this time they don't send me to the tombs in. They send me to Rikers. This was my first time going to Reich. What happens to your bail in a situation like this? Do you lose the money? No, they actually went. When the judge exonerates it, that means that they give it back to you, you know?

So I was out on bail the first time of $50,000 bond. And the second time, it was $100,000 bond. Collectively, it was $17,000 because, you know, you pay the 10%. But from there, the bail bonds took their fee, which was $7,000, and they gave back $10,000. Wow, they made that much off of it. Yeah, you know, you would. think is a business thinking how many people get arrested, you know, like $7,000 off of that. But they're taking the risk.

Exactly. But mind you, look how fast they made that money like you said. I was only out. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. Youth sports families and fans huddle up.

takes you, Game Changer keeps you connected. Stream games live in full HD when you can't be there. Get play-by-play updates right on your phone and share game highlights with everyone, full bragging rights included. Live the game like never before with Game Changer. Create your free account today at gc.com. As the Krispy Chicken Sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know.

I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup. and reflect. Like I know I'm a handful. I'm bold. I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me and baby I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet. No. Krispy, saucy and $4? Very. Only at 711. Valley 36, participating stores only while supplies lastly out for full terms. For four weeks before they remanded me, you know? Okay, so they bring you to Rikers Island. Walk us through that experience. Oh, man. Like, I've been found on your platform for a while. know, Ian, and I know you've interviewed a lot of, and I think they all tell you, like, Rikers is just a whole different animal, you know.

I remember a memory that no matter how much I try to forget, it's always going to stick with me. Like, when they told me, oh, yeah, pack up. I was actually in the tombs again, and they said pack up. I'm like, where I'm going, they're like, oh, you're going to Rikers. So, you know, you hear all these stories about Rikers, people getting stabbed, cut. You know, so in my mind, I'm already mentally preparing myself. I'm like, all right, this is what I hear the story.

So I got to be on point. Once we get to that bridge, though, Ian, and you just start hearing, doom, do, do, and the bus just keeps hitting that bump harder and harder. And you're looking out the window and you're looking at the water. Yo, my stomach drop. I'm like, what am I in store for right now? What did I sign up? So I go over there to Rike, if they take me to C-95, they end up putting me in the dark side,

which is cells, you know, and this was June. It was so hot this summer, Ian, that all of us, most of the guys that we were, you know, confined in cells, we had to sleep in our boxes on the floor just to try to get that little bit of breeze of cold air, you know, under the cell. That's how bad and nasty it was over there, you know? And then I was only there this time for like five, six months. But even at that, with all the situations happening, guys having beef in each other's house,

we were getting moved around, like, constantly, you know, and just the whole experience is the most dehumanizing thing. Like, I remember Ian going to commissary, and the officer's telling us, oh, yeah, bring your blanket, though. I'm like, your blanket, they're like, yeah, how you think you're going to carry your commissary back? So it's like, you go to a window to pick up your commissary,

and you literally have to throw all your food on the floor and pack it up on a blanket, it and then walk it back to your housing unit. You know, it's like an inexplainable experience. Definitely not a pleasant one. Definitely one that I try to, you know, through my platform, remind the brothers and sisters coming home, one that we cannot go back to. And especially the youth, one that they should never look forward to going to.

Now, you weren't getting related in there. No, I wasn't. So where does that leave you when you're just navigating that? because there's a lot of like bloods and whatnot, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, they put me in a house, you know, in that it had like, you know, like individuals of certain parties, you know, like it wasn't just a certain house for one specific gang or whatnot, you know?

So I guess I don't know if they call it a neutral house, but, you know, I wasn't banging, you know, I was just there doing my time. Now, you stay in Rikers for five to six months. Do you plead out or do you take it to try to try? trial. I ended up pleading out in November, December, like, you know, my co-defendant that I was with, like I told you, we was in the same building, you know, and we always had communication. You know, this is my brother. And he had told me one day that our other co-defendant, the guy, you know, that I told you, Ian, that we took the ride with and we got caught up in that situation.

Supposedly, you know, he was already out on the run from a prior situation. So because of that, they were trying to offer him 12 years. And the only way that they were going to even give that individual a break was if we all took four years. So basically he copped out first. And with that, my other co-defendant copped out and then I copped out. Originally, I was just going to get a two flat and two posts from that first situation I told you I got. But now since I got caught up in that second one, and again, I have, you know, if I was guilty of anything, you know, like I've been very honest with you, with everything I've said here, Ian, I would tell you.

But this time I wasn't even, you know, I was just there simply for a ride. But it didn't hurt that I got caught up being out on bail on a prior incident. And also my co-defendant that was with me was also with me on that first one. You know, like the prosecutors were trying to allege now. Like, we was a criminal enterprise, you know? Like, we were running a whole street organization. So it just goes to show, man, you know, sometimes. you know, you put yourself in situations just by being around people, places, and things,

and it's that easy, it's that delicate. So that two flat turned into a four flat and five posts. And what does that mean, break that down? I got sentenced to four years of actually, you know, incarceration, and then five posts is basically parole. Post and parole is the same thing, just that post supervision is now usually what they're basically given to people. And it's a little bit more intense, you know, is a little bit more supervised.

So basically I had to do my time. And when I came home, I still owe them five years of parole, of checking them with a parole officer, you know, before they finally release me. And I'm technically, you know, out the system, you know, not consider property of the New York State Department of Corrections. Now, for those four years, do you get good time added on? Yeah. I actually, you know, since my case was nonviolent, I was able to come home in 34 months out of the four years.

You know, four years is 48 months. So I did 34 months. I actually came home on my 29th month. I was sent to, first I was sent to Hail Creek to do case at, you know, comprehensive alcohol, substance abuse treatment program. And once you complete that program, it comes with what's called presumptive work release. So they sent you to a facility. It's basically a halfway house, but you have to work. You have to bring them a check, you know, to show proof that you're working.

And that's the way it works. So I was basically able to come out five times earlier. Like I was still in custody technically when I will go to the facility. I will have to get, you know, go through the whole spew, go through metal detectives, guest search. But I still had that sense of freedom. They give you that chance to actually go out and work, spend, you know, time where you family to kind of start developing, you know, your family ties once again. So I got through with that and I was successfully done with that March 27th of 2019.

That's when I came home from my four flat. So do you think that you would have gotten prison time regardless if you caught the second case or not? Yeah, I was because of, you know, the severity of the, the severity of the first case being that they were already in. They had me on investigation for over a year. And obviously, you know, they had me on surveillance with the sales. Like, it doesn't matter at that point if the sale is big or small.

A sale is a sale. And that's the worst thing that you can have on your records, especially when you're selling to an undercover. You know, that's the worst thing you could do. So I was definitely, you know, my lawyer had told me I was going to have to do two years, two years and two posts. But look, or for that second situation, it turned into four flat and five posts. When you think about that undercover, like when you replay it in your mind,

were there any telltale signs of her being a cop or no? No, man. I'm going to be honest with you, Ian, man. The way those, they move. Like, now, you know, you can see the sun. And even back then, yeah, certain people, like, I'm going to tell you a big red flag, especially when I'm at where I'm from in New York. You see regular guys hanging out with a Yankee hat, you know?

You're like, yeah, he are undercover. and they just stick out like a sore thumb, you know? They look so obvious. But this girl, she's talking to me about her boyfriend, about telling me she works in a hospital, and that's the thing. My boy that introduced me to this girl, Ian, it was a girl that he was messing with that introduced him.

And the way she made it seem to him is like, this is my coworker. We work together. So the whole time I'm thinking, nah, I'm not the reason why it, you know, like that feeling started to kind of kick in was because my buddy at the time, he told me that he had one to meet up with this girl once on his own and that he kind of sensed as if she had her phone out, like if she was recording. So once he told me that, he told me when that happened, he never did anything with her.

He just walked away. So she must have got, you know, tipped off right there, Ian, obviously spoken to her. Her superior is like, listen, these guys, we got to act on them fast because they know. So, yeah, right after he told me that, a couple of days later, she was calling me and I was really ignoring the calls, you know, Ian, because like he told me this. So why would I even try to go through with it? And she kept on, she even tried to refer me another friend. She was like, yo, I got somebody else for you. And you mind if I give them their number?

I didn't answer or nothing. Can you believe that girl ends up hitting me up? like, oh, I got your friend, I got your number from such and such. I'm like, hell no. You know, I didn't respond, but little did I know. You know, I was, I was already in too deep, man. Damn. And was she an actual undercover cop or was she an informant?

She was an undercover cop. She was an undercover cop in the way they listed in the indictment. She was a full-blown undercover cop. And then obviously the girl that was my boy's girl, she flipped and turned into a CI. Okay, so that was a CI, but this one was an actual registered cut. Exactly, yeah. So now where do they send you for that time, the state time? They sent me upstate up north.

You know, I was there in Rikers for like five, six months, like I told you, Ian, once I got, once I copped out and I got sentenced, they sent me, my first stop was Ulster, you know, which is reception, Ulster Correctional Facility. And right there is like you already start seeing things is different, you know, like even from the way they shackle you up, you know, like. Like, when they come pick you up, when they bring you up from Rikas to go to get transph over there, it's like they pull out this little black box that is, you know, like, till this day, you still catch me having bad memories about that. You know, you can't move in that box. It's tied around your waist all the way down your feet, your ankles. And it's like, you know, the most dehumanizing thing that anybody can ever go through.

Not to mention when you get to Ulster, they let you know right away, like they want you to know. hands on and that they're not there to play those games. Whatever games or disrespectful games, Cass were doing in Rikers, talking to the CEOs, they let you know, you know, Ian,

like, listen, you just came, welcome to the state, and this is not Rikers Island, you know, so they give you the fresh baldy, they pull you through a shower,

like if you're a chicken, you know, like, like a sweat line, you know, in and our service, you know, you go here,

throw soap on you, go here, They shave you bald. Go through this, though, before you know, they throw you your towel. Then they give you a fresh set of greens with your denim. And that's it, you property of the state of New York. Is this to make sure that there's no lice? Yeah, like to make sure you're not coming with no lice, no, you know,

no type of diseases or illness. It's just crazy to think about it, though, like the whole process. You know, it's like literally you're going from, you see like a factory that assembles a certain object or whatever. Ian, that's how it is. That's how that whole thing is positioned upstate. Yeah, I've heard about this in other states. I mean, that's got to be extremely degrading. Yeah, terrible, you know?

You think they do that in addition to, like, breaking someone down mentally? I think so, you know, because like I told you, the first thing they do when you get there, they put you in a room and they tell you, like, straight up, Ian, they're like, listen, if you came from Rikers with any contraband, we're going to step out the room right now, we're going to give you an opportunity to throw whatever you have in your pockets, just throw it in the middle of the room and you won't get in trouble. But if we find you, you know, with that down the line, there's going to be several consequences you're going to have to deal with.

And of course, you know, it never fails in. People don't listen. You know, I just happen to be there with my situation, obviously, witnessing one individual who probably, you know, call their bluff and thought they were joking. around and like certain things throughout your bid, you know, you just don't forget. I'll never forget this, you know, because I remember them pulling him out the room and just putting hands on him, you know, because obviously he came up with something, you know, and they gave him the opportunity, like, listen, get rid of it now or, you know, deal with the consequences

later. So what do they do to him? Oh, we all saw them, they put on some gloves. They started putting hands on him. And then last thing we heard was that he was sent to the box because they have. like a box right there, a shoe on the premises of Ulster. And then, you know, by the time he got out, I already had, I was transferred to my next facility where I did my time.

Oh, because this was just the reception area. Yeah, this is just reception, yeah. Okay. So now when you get to your actual facility, is at a low, medium, high, how does that work? This was a medium. You heard, Ian, and it was Watertown Correctional Facility. and it was probably one of the worst prisons in the state that with my luck I ended up getting sent to it. It kind of made me think like, again, going back to what you said, breaking someone in,

is it because it's my first time and they want to break me in? Like this situation, this spot was so bad, so nasty, Ian, that when you get there, you know, you have to do this program, Phase 1, which is facilitated by, you know, actual, inmates that are also there doing time. And in the midst of them facilitating this class, I remember them telling me and all the other guys that had just came fresh new to the prison, they're like, yo, man, I'm going to tell you straight up, this is the worst facility you could be in. This is the worst hub. It's hands on. And I'm going to be honest with you, Ian, I was there for 23 months, 22, 23 months, right before they sent me to Hail Creek to do the six months of the KSAT program.

and I witnessed it firsthand. It was hands-on all the time. Them officers over there, they were on a whole different time in Watertown, you know? Why'd they send you to a medium as a first-time offender, nonviolent drug offense? Because in the States, Ian, they had shut down all the low classification. So all they have now, even back then, when I went up in 2016, it was only medium facilities, medium and max. They don't have no more low, low facility. Like back then, you know, they had certain camps or whatever, but nah, they just have, I believe what they called it is like a medium A or medium B.

Those are the only options. Medium A. People are full of surprises, especially when you travel together. Thankfully, Verbo is not. When you book a Verbo, you get Verbo care and 24-7 live support. So your house doesn't surprise you like your friends might. If something's not as described or doesn't work, Verbo's there. Real people. Real support.

Any time. Book today on the Verbo app. If you know, you Verbo. Terms apply, seeverbo.com slash trust for details. For the moments that matter, choose Kyrad Naturals. Infused with aloeuvreous and vitamin E, Kyrad Natural's bandages protect your unexpected scrapes, cuts, and burns, while also moisturizing your skin.

Find deeper relief with natural ingredients you can trust to start the healing. When life surprises call for the best, choose Kyrad, a deeper level of care. Shop the full collection on Amazon or visit KURAD.com to learn more. Parade presents. Ojos with Alerjia and pickasone.

Contra the gardener. And the winner is Paradey, extra-furt. To alleviate the acyrevealibre more rapid and super clarity of flownays even at 24 hours. Parade. Adelante. Medium B or, you know, a max.

So tell us some of the violence you're seeing in this facility. Oh, man, it was, I mean, it was bad, you know, like, I remember this kid I used to be, you know, Ian with in the same dorming unit, you know, in the summertime, we would play softball, you know, versus each dorm room or whatnot. And I remember us being on the field waiting for this kid from Stanton Island, and he was taking a while to come on. When he came out, his face was all. bruised up and read and he had told us, you know, like, the reason they did that was because one of

the housing unit officers saw him cooking, you know, with a black kid who was supposedly, you know, gang related, had gang ties. So supposedly they have pulled this kid into the office to ask him, or are you cooking with this dude? And they, they just started beating him up for that, man. Like, they wasn't happy to see him, you know, eating with this dude. And it just kind of shows, you know, like how broken the system is. I saw another individual who had just did 12 years in and this poor guy was about to go home like the next week. And this actually happened in my unit.

I witnessed this firsthand. Somebody had whistled. And the officer who was doing the count was this older lady. And she picked randomly this individual and said that he happened to whistle at her while she was doing the count. man she pulled the pin um i remember there was a whole bunch of snow outside we was all looking out the you know out the um housing unit they had this guy like beating him up making him eat snow a guy who just gave the state 12 years and was about to go home the next day like they flipped

them up inside out man you know dudes getting cut from one day they playing chess and then the next day the dude is cutting him on the phone. It was crazy, man. Like, type of things you've seen there, the violence. Did you yourself ever have any altercations? Nah, I didn't, man. I was very fortunate and blessed, you know. Ian, wherever I landed, I always carried myself, you know, very serious. I knew how to move. And I wasn't really there to really open up doors for many people, you know. I was really just there to do my time and get up home, you know. But one day, I almost did take it there. And I'm not going to lie. Behind it. a lesson that I actually learned until this day I take this lesson to heart. And now I use it

to actually spread awareness and educate the youth. And it was, I had a bunkie from the lower east side. He was doing like 20 years to life. He already had been incarcerated like, you know, almost the 20 years. So his chances to go home were very slim to numb. And one day, you know, he saw that I came back to our housing unit and I was heated. You know, I had, I don't know if it was that I had just gotten a bad phone call, whatnot. I was just ready to take it to that level. And I remember this guy pulling out a piece of paper and writing two letters, you know, I and I over E.

And he tells me, yo, young, you know what that is, write an eye and an E. And I'm like, yeah, he's like, you know what that means, right? I'm like, no, he's like, listen, the eye is intelligence and the bottom is emotions. Never let your emotions supersede your intelligence because a couple of minutes of anger of you doing an emotional decision, you might end up with a new case in here and might not even going home. You know, so I took that lesson in to do the rest of my time. And like I said, I use it till this day because it's true. You know, I've seen it firsthand how individuals can take a bad situation and in matters of seconds, instead of walking away, they turn it into a worse situation,

you know? How old are you when you got out of that first bid? I was about, 33 going on 34. And what was your plan? My plan was to come out here, I actually work, and do the right thing, man. I used to tell dudes, like, yo, you can make a bet.

Like, the first bit, you know, I didn't have to do programs like that, because, like I said, I had graduated college. So I was program ready. I didn't have to do anything. So I was just working in the mess hall and working out. I took my whole time, my whole bid to really focus on my physical, working out. I went in like weighing 205s and I came home 160 solid. You know, like I really focused on my fitness.

And my plans were like, I'm done with the streets. I'm not going back to clubbing, to the promoting thing. I'm going to do things the right way. And for some time when I came out, Ian, even after I finished the work release, that's how I was carrying myself. I was looking to work. I was continuing, you know, to do things the right way. But I lacked the fundamentals that I apply in my life now, you know, which is FDP, focus, discipline, and patience.

You know, that's like my daily mantra that I live by, you know, I didn't give myself time. You know, I was so used to that instant gratification. I was so used to spending $1,000 today and making it right back. tomorrow that after a while, you know, when things weren't going for me like that, I'm like, damn, I'm trying different lanes. I don't really have a sense of support out here. No one's really trying to help me out. It's like it willed me right back in.

You heard Ian? But I wouldn't say that I jumped into hustling right away. I went back to the scene again. I started doing parties again. 2019, I started promoting. But what you think was going to come with that? You know, I started, again, associating myself with. individuals from that life. And shortly after, you know, COVID had just hit 18 months later,

Ian, I ended up reoffending again. And I was back again, you know, in handcuffs on a new indictment. Do you think you jump back into, say, promoting because you were having trouble with your conviction, finding a different path in life and you just referred back to the thing that you were good at before and had success with? Yeah, I think so because I'm going to be honest with you. Um, for At some time I even debated on it like trying to go back to that law firm and ask them, you know, for a possible job. But honestly, I felt a sense of embarrassment, you know. I was a shame, like I said, not only with my family, but even with these people, like I worked with this law firm. I want to say, like, from my junior year of high school all the way to after college, like they went and were trying to prep me.

You know, they helped me to take my LSAT. They were pushing me to be a law. So it's like, like you said, I really didn't know what else, what other options. Was I able to do something and get that quick turnaround? Because like, you know, you mentioned earlier about making good money with parties. Like I told you, yeah, you'll have your good nights, you'll have your bad nights. But I knew firsthand from working a 9 to 5 and also working in that nightlife scene that the way I would be able to make that money from one party, it was going to, it wasn't going to come as easy

or as quick, you know, me doing nine to five. So I went back to what I knew. I still felt like I had a lane there. But like I told you, even before I went away, I was already drifting, not drifting away from it. I was just my priorities weren't straight. I was giving more focus and more principle to what I was doing on the side as opposed to the parties.

How was your family treating you when you got out of prison that first time? What was your relationship? with your parents? My parents, they were good, man. You know, I'm not going to lie to you, you know. Ian, they've been, whether good or bad, I've been blessed to have very supportive parents, you know, and I have to admit, that's why I always say and I share with people. It's like it has been one of the hardest things that I've ever done in my life because,

you know, to actually get sentenced in a courtroom with your parents there, it's hard, you know, but they still embrace me with that same love. They still embrace me as me being the youngest, the baby as the family. you know, but something, you know, that was kind of happening at the moment, right before my second incarceration, my mom's conditions, little by little, I kind of noticing, you know, they were getting a little bad. Like, even right before I came home the first time, a friend of mine actually drove my dad and my mother to see me, you know, on a visit. And I noticed, you know, like my mom's, her, Her recognition of me, it was being a little incoherent.

You know, she was saying certain things on the visit that, you know, I had to get on the phone with my dad after and ask him, yo, his mom are right? And he's starting to open up to me. Like, you know, her memory is kind of getting a little bit impaired. You know, they don't really know what it is. It's early signs of dementia, whatever. So this was like when I came out the first time, you know. And this is what I was dealing with at the time. Tell us about reoffending what happened with that case.

Wow. So I was out. You know, Ian, like I told you, 18 months. 2020, this is 2020. The world is paralyzed. We living in totally different times. It's COVID now. So October 2nd, 2020, I'm at home with my wife.

We watch a night. Netflix, and around 1 a.m., we end up hearing a door knock, you know, and like, you know, them people when them, them law officials, when they come looking for you, they're not going to knock nicely, you know, they want you to know, like, we come in and get you. So I remember being in bed, and I'm hearing the buzzer first, like, like nonstop, almost as if I knew and I didn't even want to get up from bed. You know, we had a camera in the intercom. I'm telling my wife, babe, go check.

Like, I wasn't ready to face the music. And she tells me right away, yo, there's like 10 officers in the lobby or something. I'm like, really? So they come. She opens the door. They greet her. They're like, oh, it's Jason or brew here. So, you know, at this point in, I say, you know what, it's time to face the music.

I come out. They like, you know, we have a warrant for your arrest. So I'm like, listen, but we'll do respect. Can I ask why I'm being arrested? They're like, well, you know what? conspiracy you deal drugs i heard that word ian and then i seen the way they pull up on me 10 deep like i got pale you know i remember them putting you know the handcuffs on me and me locking eyes with my wife and her breaking down into tears like as if we as if we both looked at each other

looking at each other like damn when is going to be the next time that we're going to see each other we we didn't really know the you know um the clarity we had i had no clarity i didn't know the severity of the situation and the way they came there, you would have thought in that I was like the biggest criminal in New York, like I was the biggest narco, you know? And they end up bringing me down. They fly through the highway. And now as I'm in the taking this ride now, I'm trying to retract my steps. I'm thinking about things I did that day, things I did that week, things I did throughout the summer. I'm like, yo, where can this be from? What's going on? They end up taking me to a priesting in the Bronx and Kingsbridge. When I get there, I see some familiar faces who are my

co-defendants at the time. We happen to be in the same case. So we still don't know what's going on. When they go and fingerprint one of my co-defendants, he comes back. So I asked him through the cells, you know, Ian, I'm like, yo, what's up? What's this about? He's like, I don't know, I don't have that many details, you know, Jay, but they're just saying that this is a drug indictment, a drug conspiracy. I'm like, wow. So the next day, mind you, the course are close, Ian, like the whole world is paralyzed. They come. The officers, they're like, listen, we're trying to get you to court as soon as possible so the judge can let y'all go. You know, like with the whole bail reform, they're going to let you go. You good. For me, I knew that the chances of that happening

to me was slim to none because I was just, I'm still on parole, mind you. I just have 18 months that I come home. They end up taking us to the courthouse in the Bronx, completely empty, nobody's just us with our mask and the judge. So they're reading the charges. And, you know, as they're reading the charges, Ian, my lawyer, they're trying to, the prosecutors like, now we can't give the defendant bail. So my court-appointed lawyer at the time before I retain my lawyer,

he's actually trying to fight for me to get a bail. And in that moment, Ian, the prosecutor slips up. And he goes, listen, Your Honor, objection. There's no way we could give this individual. No type of bail. Because besides the fact that he's already on parole, you know, we also observed and have him under surveillance throwing a narcotic substance inside the trunk of an undercover on such and such date at such and such time.

Right there, I was defeated. You know, Ian, I just put my head down. The lawyer knew he looked at me like, yo, I can't even help you right now. I was speechless because right there, once I heard that, I have full clarity. you know, what had happened, who did this to me? You know, they sold me out. Someone I used to hustle with, you know, that I was cool with, someone I considered my boy. We knew each other for 10 years.

He sold me out to save himself because, you know, how do I know? How am I so certain about this? You know, because what they just finished describing in court, that whole situation of me throwing an narcotic substance inside the trunk of an undercover, it was my so-called friend that orchestrated this with me the day before. He had met up on me and told me, listen, Jay, I'm going to come tomorrow at such and such time. I'm going to be parked right here, and my guy's going to be parked behind me. So you don't even got to see nobody or nobody.

You good. Just come down when I call you and tap the trunk. He's going to pop the trunk and you could throw, you know, whatever you got to throw in there. And I'm going to have the money. So obviously, you know, Ian, one plus one. too, man. Like, the proof is right there. He's the one that orchestrated all of this. Technically, that's his customer. I'm just coming down to facilitate the things that were spoken about. But he never got arrested with me, Ian. He was never in that courtroom with me. In fact,

he was actually out on bail from his own situation, you know, which I was actually trying to give a hand. Once I found out that he was done it through his own legal issues, I have to probably like three or four months, I was freshly out. And when he told me he was going through that and what had happened, I immediately told him, you know, listen, um, don't worry, I got you. I know what it is to do time out there in the world, forget about, I just went through it, but you could count on me, bro, as a friend, I'm going to be there for you. And that's what he chose to do to me, you know, Ian, and that's why I appreciate this space that you created with your platform, giving us returning citizens a chance to share our stories because me sharing my story,

I just like to try to remind these people and the youth that might not know what you signing up for when you dealing with the streets. There ain't no loyalty out there no more. You know, that whole street thing is a myth. You know, everyone is going to try to save themselves, you know, Ian, before doing time. We had like a 1%, 99.9.9.9. percent of individuals living that life, the biggest gangsters, the biggest hustlers, they're all ready to tell on you, you know?

So at the end of the day, did it hurt? Did that act of betrayal hurt? A lot, very much, you know? It was something with time. It wasn't from one day to another that I learned to let go. It was actually through my second incarceration as I got deeper in it, and I was finally able to put my whole life into perspective. and you know what, I looked in the mirror and I owned up to it.

I'm like, you know, yeah, he did what he did, but I'm going to take responsibility. I hold myself accountable and that realization didn't come to me quick from one day to another. A counselor when I was, you know, where I was doing the program, I actually told me, and at the time I wasn't trying to hear it, but he was right. He was like, yeah, I know you mad. He told he cooperated against you, but, you know, if you wasn't doing what you was doing, you would have not given him a chance. But at first, that wasn't my mindset, you know, Ian, I'm thinking like the get back.

It hurt like an open wound, you know, having someone close to you and knowing that you just came from doing a bid, knowing you just left your son for some years to do a bid, and he goes again and throws you in another situation. But, you know, I knew in order for me to become who I am today and everything that I've been able to accomplish so far on this journey. journey, I had to let that go and I had to forgive, you know, and sometimes people think forgiveness is weakness, but I'm here to tell everyone, Ian, that forgiveness is not weak, it's not weakness. Forgiveness is actually power, you know, because that goes to show that you choose you and your future over making an emotional decision, because had I came home still on that type of time, the get back, I want to get even, I want to do this, I want to do that, I would have ended up

crashing out again, just like the system wanted me to. And I would have been back inside a third time. And, you know, we don't forgive. I didn't forgive because the person deserves it. I forgave because I deserve my peace, you know. If I would have came home and chose to stay stuck and hold on to that resentment, I was going to block all the blessings that God has shown me so far and continues to show me daily, you know. Do you think a lot of individuals like yourself go into prison after, say, a situation like that with resentment against a co-defendant or the people that put them into prison or even law enforcement for that matter? A hundred percent, a hundred percent, you know, a hundred percent, you know, and a lot of people hold on to that resentment, you know, and I speak about it in detail,

you know, and my book, you know, I just released because, like I said, if you choose to hold on to it, And I look at it like this. Nothing's ever going to change the fact, Ian, that that individual did that and I had to do my time. Nothing's ever going to change the fact that the individual still walks around and carries himself denying like if it happened. Nothing's ever going to change the fact

that he still keeps a whole crew of individuals around him that know what he did but choose to look the other way because it wasn't done to them. You feel me? So why am I going to come out here, you know, Ian, and feed into that whole negative energy. I said, nah, I'm good. I'm not doing that. And believe it or not, going back to prison

turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me, you know, because it birthed my whole purpose. How long were you there that second bid? That second bid in, I was in Rikers for 10, 11 months fighting the case. Like I told you, this was COVID. So the first time, if I'm telling you, it was bad, now it was super bad, super nasty. We was on 24-hour lockdown. There was no, No wreck going on because of, you know, the whole COVID situation, officers dying. Every other day, officers, detainees, excuse me, staff, civilians, all throughout the jail, like that COVID was spreading like wildfire in Rikers Island, you know? So it was the worst, you know, but by the graces of God, my lawyer was able to get me

to cop out to the lower charge, which was criminal possession of a control substance. in the third degree. So, you know, I'm on the phone one day with my wife. The phone is about to hang up. And he's calling my wife, Jennifer. And she's like, oh, Anthony's calling my lawyer at the time. Anthony Straza. She's like, I'm a merger man.

And he tells me, listen, I'm able, you know, to get you to cop out to the lower charge. You got to let me know if you're willing to accept. And, you know, at that time, he's like, yeah, it's going to be three. three, three flat and two posts again. So in my head, you know, Ian, I'm like, well, I already got 10, 11 months and Rikers. With the good time, I just got to do, it's 25 months out of three years.

So I just got to probably do another 10, 11, 12 months, 10 months at most. I'm good. So the whole time I'm telling my wife too, I'm good, which also was a learning experience. Because, you know, now I end up copping out to the three and two posts, Ian, forget this. when I get to reception again to Austin, I end up getting a letter directly from Albany,

from the New York State Department of Corrections. And I'm reading it, and they're telling me like, oh yeah, we got your new commitment of three flat and two posts, but because you were on parole and you came home on good time on your first bid with 34 months, all that good time from my first bid, Ian, they added it to my second bit. So that three flat basically turned into a five flat, you know,

and that's important for the listeners, the viewers to hear how delicate it is and why I'm telling you when you come home, if God blesses you to get out of that situation, prison, choose you. Choose you first, second, and third, and, you know, try to get ahead in life and don't go back to what you're doing. Because if you come back out here and you're on parole and you end up reoffending, you will be doing that good time from your first bid as well as whatever parole you are from the second bid.

The state is going to make sure you give them every day you owe them, you know, Ian? Where do they send you this bid? This bid after Austin, they end up sending me to Wyoming, Wyoming Correctional Facility, which at the time, this was the worst medium. You're in like, I'm talking about cuttings left and right. Like the housing units in order for you to walk to child to go eat is a mile away. Every day when they caught child, you got to be ready to walk 20 minutes to go to the mess hall

and 20 minutes to come back. So throughout that course of 20 minutes walking over there and coming back, like it was a gang heavily infested, you know, with a lot of gang activities. But like I told you, know, like the way I carried myself, the way I moved, I never had no issues. Funny enough, some people actually. knew of me, you know, through the whole party stuff. You know, I would get to Spass and they'll be like, oh, Jason, I party hard. Yeah, I used to hear them shouting out your parties on the radio or whatnot, you know,

so that kind of got. Whatever your thing. It could be anything. Canva helps you make that thing a thing. Canva is a simple online tool thing. It's a way to design with our magic AI tool things. You can social media your thing, generate images or videos of your things. make decks for presentations to show your thing.

Whatever needs to be done for your thing, Canva can make it an even better and bigger thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. Exema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with ebbglis. A once-monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four-month or longer dosing phase, about four in 10 people taking ebbglis achieved itch relief

and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks, And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing. Ebglis, Librikizumab, LBKZ. A 250 milligram per 2 milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to epiglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe.

Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebbglis. Before starting Epgless, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about ebbglis and visit ebglis.com or call 1800 lilyrx or 1-800-545-9709. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them.

But Redfin isn't just built for Enfitting. It's built to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals, when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at redfin.com. Own the dream. I mean, you know, some cool points with a few dudes, you know? A lot of dudes remember me from the scene. So why do you hear from some of these guys that you got to click up, you got to do X, Y, and Z, you know, they say you can't remain neutral like you did?

I mean, honestly, I think, I think, Ian, that that's what they want you to believe, you know, and like I said, they want you to believe, but it's not true, man, you know, I went both times I went away. Like I said, there was certain individuals I was cool with from this party, you know, from this crew. And there was dudes that I was cool from this crew, you know. But at the end of the day, I always stuck to myself and God. That's how I did my whole bit. Me, myself, and the Lord above, you know, and that's why I said this second time around

was the best thing that ever happened to me because it was able, it was how I was able to find my purpose, you know, and create my movement that I represent today and I push. How long into your sentence did that come to fruition? I think I want to say it was by the time I got to Wyoming in, was around July of 2021. And I'll tell you exactly what happened. When I went back to Austin, even from the minute,

when I went back to Rikers, I already being back in prison this second time, I already started seeing a lot of familiar faces who I had been incarcerated with, you know, from before. So I'm looking at this and I'm taking it in. And I'm just saying at the moment, I'm like, damn, that sucks. Look, he's back on a new case.

This is me at the time. This is how I'm seeing it like, damn, I'm not the only one. Look how many people end up going home and coming back out, coming back to prison. Now I get to Ulster and I start bumping into more dues, you know? And then as we getting, you know, in transfer and transit to our destination, we have to stop at certain jails to pick up inmates, drop inmates off. And I start seeing more and more people. But one day when I'm at Wyoming, one of these child runs like,

Like I told you, Ian, they called child, walking the child. And on the walkway, I just see it like left and right. Like, boom, boom. All these people that were, that I had seen on my first bid. And I remember going back to my cube that day. And I'm like, wow, that's crazy, man. Like, it happened to me. I went out with all the right intentions, trying to advance in life.

I didn't really have no real support, no real roadmap, and I reoffending. and look how many other people have reoffended. So it was in that moment, still on the count, that I was really able to see how deep the cycle of recidivism runs, which is, you know, what I fell into. And thousands of individuals fall into yearly, you know, until that trap, you know, even recidivism. So how do you shape that in your life's purpose?

How I shaped that is, you know, I said, listen, I took a chance, I took this in, and I felt like God wanted me, to be back in this setting, to see this to create what I've created. And I said, I'm going to go home and I'm going to create a movement, a platform that's going to focus solely on reentry and prevention. You know, helping brothers and sisters come home, avoid that trap of recidivism, you know, and really make that successful transition and prevention to try to reach the youth before the system ever claims them.

Now, how I incorporated through my life to try to be a voice to hold. Right now I'm doing a lot of youth mentorship work, you know. I also daily put out content on my pages. And I also run a platform myself, a podcast, off-the-count podcast, which the main purpose of that platform is to amplify the voices of formerly incarcerated individuals who have been able to take that prison experience and turn it into purpose, such as yourself. You know, Ian, like I said earlier before we started rolling,

For me, this moment is full circle because I remember getting to the halfway house coming across your page, your platform and seeing you like, wow, this is someone who's really been through it and trying to build something real. And to see how much you've elevated and where you've taken everything from then to now is motivating, you know, and I respect your consistency and how you were able to turn your story into impact. I appreciate it. Yeah, like I was telling you off camera, I remember.

you know, you being one of those day one people because I remember your username made up north. Yes, yes. So from back in 2023 or, you know, even 2022 when I first started. So, you know, I appreciate that. No, definitely, definitely, you know. So I've done a few things, man. Like I told you, I dropped the, I brought your little care package there too. You know, I brought, I put out some merch just so people can hear the name and get familiarized. You know, like the whole name of my movement of my mission is made up north and the whole foundation that drives everything that I do behind that movement is off the counter making it count the name made up north came about obviously you know I was in that setting up north where this whole vision came to me and off the count

like I said is the foundation off the count simply means freedom and making it count means the daily choices that we make to ensure that we stay out free here for our love on and the people that really do need us, you know? Did you have any issues when you got back with reoffending at all? Any temptations or any close scenarios? I did, of course, you know, Ian, and I speak about that, you know, in my latest release project, you know, which is very close to hard. You know, that I think is probably the biggest thing that I've been able to do right now

at this moment to really help individuals, you know, come home and make that successful transition and help, you know, anyone in general that's really ready to trying to rebuild and transform their life is the book I put out, right? But of course, temptations are going to be there. Temptations are there before, you know, Ian, before you come out those gates, temptations are there. And I know this because sometimes you could jump on a phone call, on a prison call, and you're

not even out yet, and people already asking you waiting. So you see, when I came home this time, though, and I was already on a whole different mindset. I told myself, I took a step back. You see the first bit, I used them mainly to focus on the physical. This time around I said, I'm going to focus on this, on my mindset. Because in order for you to change, for anybody to change, the first thing they got to change is their mindset. You got to change the way you think before you really could change.

So I said, listen, I'm going to really look at all the things that I did and didn't do the first time versus the second time and apply those. things so that I can make that successful transition. And in fact, I did. I came home. I successful, I did the work release program 18 months with no issue. I successfully completed parole this past October. And when I came home, you know, being in that work release, I was actually working at one of my good friends spot in Queens, dive bar. You know, shout out to my brother Russ and everybody at dive bar, you know, forever grateful for everything that they did for me and the part that they played in my whole reentry, you know, I was working as a bus boy,

you know, as a runner. But so people that knew I was home, they will pull up, you know, Ian, and I speak about this in my book, you know, they will pull up to see how I was doing a check on me. But those checkups, those pulling up to see how I was doing, they came on other questions, you know, if I was still hustling, if I was still able to get this, if I was still able to get X, Y, and Z. but now I came prepared because I had known, you know, I'm like, I got to be able to identify my triggers because triggers I call them invisible enemies. They out here waiting for you, you know? People placing things are here waiting for you.

You know how they say when you go away, you hear people tell you, yo, don't stress it, you're not missing out on nothing. And then you come back out here and you see that in actual fact. Like how many people you could actually come back out here and see, you could look at people right away and be like, yeah, he was doing his thing. He made things happen or this person stay stuck. But believe me, when you come back out here, Ian, the temptations are going to be there. You know, your old hangouts, your old crew, and that's where you really got to make that decision to walk away, you know.

And I really had to make that decision. Like, when dudes were come and ask me and I had to, you know, shut it down and be like, nah, at first, yeah, I felt heavy in the heart. But it was in that moment that I was really able to. reclaim, you know, my peace because I was able to walk away. How are you doing today? Oh, I'm doing good, man. I'm doing great. I'm doing blessed, you know, Ian, like I told you, I came home.

I worked in that restaurant for about 13 months from there. I was very fortunate enough, you know, a friend of mine put me in a position. Today, I actually worked for a construction company. You know, Ian, I'm a supervisor, so, you know, I'm doing very well at that. in the midst of that, I was also able, Ian, you know, to drop a book, which actually, you know, I brought you a few things here, you know, Ian, before we forget, a shirt, I had some wristband, you know, a little of my merch, but I recently released this book, you know, Ian, on October 14th. And the reason why it means so much to me, not only because of, you know, all the content

and the good information that it has here, you know, this is made up north off the account a blueprint for successful reentry and overcoming recidivism. So like I said, I basically use my experience. These are real stories, real lessons and mindset shifts that I was able to apply to actually rebuild. So if anyone out there has anyone who's incarcerated or just came home and really trying to, you know, make that successful transition, this is probably one of the best books that you can give them. And if there's anyone out there that ever questioned, if change is possible, this book right here is proof. You know, Ian, because I know I was counted out by a lot of people coming home as a

two-time offender, and that's cool, you know, because I took all that negative to get to work, you know, and that's what I'm very passionate about. The book is 15 short chapters, you know, practical chapters, practical tools and things that I incorporated in my life to help anyone that's trying to rebuild will focus, discipline, and purpose. Each chapter comes with a little comeback challenge. So when you finish doing the chapter, you know, you could, you know, do an exercise because as we know, real change it on, real change demands action, you know. So that's, that's what I'm very passionate about now, what the work that I'm going to continue to do. Why do you think you need to do experience a criminal justice system?

Honestly, why I had to experience it? Yeah, because you were someone that experienced it a little bit later in life? I don't know, man, to be honest with you, but if there's one thing I say, like when I have these conversations, you know, with these young men and women or even with returning citizens, I always try to remind them. So I could also remind myself at the same time that prison, it doesn't discriminate if you young, if you're old, if you black, if you're white. I always say if prison has a bed waiting for everybody, you know? So like I said, that question you asked earlier, sometimes I do reflect. I have lost sleep about it.

I'm like, wow, man. I was put in a good position with that law firm and I didn't follow through with it. But now I see it as, you know what? I didn't get to become an attorney how I promised my parents, but now I'm somebody who founded a movement and I have a mission to change lives worldwide. And ain't no better feeling than that to me, you know, like messages I get on the daily, mothers from kids telling me how much they appreciate what I'm doing and how I give them hope through my platform is, it's heartwarming, you know, Ian, and it's only the beginning because I have

so much more in the works, you know, for Made Up North, off the count. Well, Jason, I appreciate you coming on the show today. I appreciate you having me. You heard, Ian, like I said, thank you, you know. Total, um, inspirational all the work that you have done. And definitely got to have you on the platform as well, too. account podcast. Yep, 100%.

And we'll have your book and link to everything in the description this episode. Yeah, man, here you go in. Before this is over, I brought you this hat. You know, a little merch kit for you. Made up North, you know, these are things, like I said, I've put out there to try to, you know, the name. So anyone that wears it, they, this is not merch like I like to call it, you know. And it's a badge of honor, resilience, redemption, you know, letting the world now that, yeah, You went through that prison life, but you're not ashamed of it because, again, your past doesn't define who you are today.

You heard, Ian? I love it, bro. Thank you, brother. I appreciate you. Thank you. I appreciate you.