Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a Bank Robber — Then I Escaped Prison | Kevin FitzPatrick

Starting point is 00:00:00 Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th, the powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th, and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamavat Theater.com, only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You win? Must be 21 to enter. What's the difference between Butter?

Starting point is 00:00:33 And butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting of cheese, or just grabbing one more spoonful of yogurt. Keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk by real California farm families. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day

Starting point is 00:01:03 Like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance With USAA you can bundle your auto and home And save up to 10% tap the banner to learn more And get a quote at usaa.com slash bundle Restrictions apply Ever since my arrest I had a handcuff key That was part of my bootlace It's something that some police carry

Starting point is 00:01:21 In case they ever get handcuffed I can't believe I'm sitting across from the real life Michael Schofield right now I built the best bridge that I could To get as high as I could on that fence I got on the top of the fence. I didn't understand razor wire until then. Can you tell us how you robbed the bank?

Starting point is 00:01:35 Kevin Fitzpatrick isn't just a former inmate. He's a three-time prison escapee and a convicted bank robber who spent nearly two decades behind bars. In this episode, Kevin takes us inside the mind of a man who broke out of prison three times, live life on the run, and pulled off multiple bank robberies, and he shares exactly how it all went down. just spent through some crazy shit you know 11 years in solitary confinement 22 years in maximum security prisons in four states 14 years of that just for escape charges i did more time for escaping repeatedly than i got for robbing bank tellers that i was in there for and uh you know there's countries around the world in europe that escapes not even a crime you don't even get prosecuted for it it's considered a natural instinct and their fault that they didn't have in a place that was secure enough to hold you so it's it's you know i i went through some some bad things i mean i went through the old school county jails when 16 year olds could go into county jails in in new york state and uh now that that doesn't exist you you have to come in a serious i was in there for joyriding in a car when i was 16 for four months i sat in a county jail and they don't do that anymore but that's you know that was

Starting point is 00:02:46 my experience with the system that uh was certainly not there to help you it was uh it was there to punish and nobody ever made an effort to get to the root of like why are you doing these things It was always, okay, what are we going to punish you with? And you come out of there, not any better. You come out of there criminally educated and you're just doing more stuff because your thinking has not been corrected and you don't have a purpose in your life to do good instead of the trap of stupidity in the past. Where'd you grow up, Kevin? Syracuse, Syracuse, New York. I was born in Florida, South Florida.

Starting point is 00:03:20 And my mother left Florida when I was a baby. So I've been in Syracuse all my life. And yeah, it was my mother, a stepfather, end up having two younger brothers. Just lived in a, no, nothing wrong with my childhood. You know, my mother and my stepfather didn't get along very well. She left him when I was 11 or 12. And that's, you know, I just grew up with my mother. She's been remarried to another guy for 30-something years and they're great.

Starting point is 00:03:51 But, you know, I had problems. You know, I got into my teens when my, probably about 13, 14 years old, I just started getting in stupid trouble. Fights at school, truancy, just stupid things and ended up on probation because nobody knows what to do with a kid that's acting up with a single mother that, you know, I was out of control at the time. I wasn't committing any major crimes or anything at that age, but I was getting started. And, you know, so it was, I ended up getting, getting placed in a group home. And that didn't work out because I'm just going to run from everywhere and ended up in a more secure environment. That led to escape number one. I was there for two days and I figured how to get out of there and see you later.

Starting point is 00:04:39 I left. And that landed me in Albany County Jail for, I believe, a year for an escape in the second degree and a stolen truck. I took a truck to get away and got caught on the other side of the state. But, yeah, that was my introduction to jail was a year in the county in Albany. You know, I'd been in a couple of the county jails for shorter amounts of time. But it was, you know, it's just craziness back then. I had at the time what evolved into, it was at that time, undiagnosed bipolar disorder that was just starting. And I would get into manic cycles.

Starting point is 00:05:20 And just reality gets bent when you get into mental illness. And you just, you do things that you know are wrong, but it's very easy to do them because your thinking is not right. And you're not being treated for, you're not being treated because nobody even knows you have this problem yet. It's not been figured out yet. And it never even got figured out until I was 40 years old that this is the diagnosis you have. And I had to do all this time in prison and nobody in prison all they care about with the mental health people. Are you feeling homicidal? No.

Starting point is 00:05:51 Are you feeling suicidal? No. Okay. Take care. That's all they care about. They don't, or they'll throw a bunch of pills at you. Give you a bunch of thorazine and just make you sleep 19 hours a day. That's mental health treatment in prison.

Starting point is 00:06:02 And, you know, so I never got treated for anything. Where was your biological dad? My biological father, I never knew. He also had bipolar disorder. I believe it was hereditary. He had it at a higher level. meaning a more severe level. But he was, from what I understand, an alcoholic, a drug user had mental health issues.

Starting point is 00:06:27 And I'm quite sure that that passed down hereditarily to me in thankfully a lesser form. But a lesser form of the mental health issues, but I exacerbated it with legal problems and picked up a gambling addiction that was just ferocious. and when committing crimes was easy and by crimes I'm talking to my teens like joyriding in cars stealing cars or you know just at the time it was serious but in retrospect it was kind of petty compared to what I eventually graduated into but that was my that was my entry into being a criminal was joyriding in cars getting in fights you know I I went to to a school. I ended up getting a lot of trouble for my school at the time for ninth grade had an annex that was about a quarter mile away from the main building. And my home room that I was supposed to report to was in the main building. Excuse me, my my home room was in the annex. My first period class was in the main building about a quarter mile away. And I never went to the home room because it didn't make sense to me at the time to go down there for 10 minutes just to walk

Starting point is 00:07:41 all the way up here in the wintertime. And I didn't know the whole time. And I didn't know the whole time people were asking me like why are you absent all the time i'm like i'm not absent i wasn't even paying attention to it but i was being reported truant because i never went to this home room and that problem was never figured out and that that became one of my legal problems with the family court was there like oh he's he's consistently truant from school i never once skipped school i don't remember ever skipping school and that got me in legal trouble because i was not going to this home room that was a walk to get to my first period class that i would just skip and that, you know, the courts thought I was just an out of control kid. I wasn't going to school. When I do

Starting point is 00:08:19 go to school, I get in fights. And, you know, that just, my mother, you know, God bless her, but she just didn't know how to handle it. And I got taken out of the house. I got put, you know, through the, through the system, which was not, I was too immature at the time to understand what was coming down the road. And of course, nobody else can see what's coming down the road when this escalates. When you become, you know, you get, you, you, you get. involved in more serious things when you're when you're when you're when you begin as a criminal and then it's like okay what do i do i do after this what do i do after that and i you know i i like to i like to tell people yeah i'm i'm a criminal i'm a i'm a multi-time convicted felon but i never heard anybody i never you know

Starting point is 00:09:01 attacked a woman i never beat up an old lady and took a purse none of that crab no sex crimes it was all financially motivated if there was if i figured out a way to get money to feed the crazy gambling addiction that I grew into, that's what I was doing. And it was all financially motivated. You know, the worst thing I ever graduated up to was passing dangerous notes to bank tellers. You know, I have a gun, give me the money, and they'd pass over a few thousand dollars and I would leave. And that was it. And that's... Well, if you're going to rob a bank, that's the way to do it with the note. Yeah, I mean, at this level of criminal education in my mind that I've gathered through years in prison,

Starting point is 00:09:39 that's not the way to do it. But we're going to not do it. But we're going to not do it. the way that would be more successful because I kind of like not being an Attica. So that's, you know, life out here is good. From a legal standpoint, you did it the right way. Yeah. But, yeah, you're still getting a bunch of trouble. It's, and then that's the problem with me is I get locked up and I rebel. I don't, I'm not staying put.

Starting point is 00:10:01 I'm not going to be there for count time if I find a way not to be. And where do you think that taste for money came from? Gambling. And where did that taste for gambling come from? I, um, when, um, now I can't blame everything on gambling, but when I was a teenager, like I said, I got in, you know, I had the, the whole mental health issue of the bipolar. And when I get into these hypomanic states where reality gets a little bent, it just becomes easy to do things that are wrong that you would not ordinarily do. And, um, not understanding that, that at that time and nobody

Starting point is 00:10:36 else understood it at the time. We don't know how to treat it. So, but then I think, I think I was 19 years old, 18 or 19, had a couple friends that needed to go to a casino to find somebody. There's a brand new casino in Syracuse, just outside Syracuse, where I'm from. And that was my introduction to the place. We went there to find somebody. And back then, there were no cell phones or anything yet. So it was, you couldn't just call this person and find and we just thought he was at the casino. So we drove out there to see him. And I saw the place and I was like, I didn't gamble that first time, but I was soon back there really quick. And and I didn't understand gambling the way I do now.

Starting point is 00:11:14 I mean, I'm a, to this now, I'm a very good blackjack player. I know how to win a lot of money in a short period of time playing blackjack. I physically cannot get off the seat and leave. That's the problem. It's the whole mental addiction to the gambling, the dopamine, the endorphins, everything. It's just, I've had thousands of dollars bent up and not left. And just, and time is not. not your friend in a casino.

Starting point is 00:11:41 You are going to lose if you don't get up and leave. You are going to lose all that money. And every time I would win, well, you know, there was the one time I went. I had a buddy, Jim. I'm not going to say his last name, but I'll tag him in this video eventually. He called me one time he was drunk at the casino, which is about a half an hour from my house. His car was totally illegal, like bogus license plates, no registration, no insurance. He's drunk.

Starting point is 00:12:06 He said, I need a ride. Come get me. and so I showed up to the casino probably like an hour later, and now he's at the poker table or whatever it was. He's got piles of chips in front of him. He's won money. He's sobered up. He doesn't want to leave.

Starting point is 00:12:19 I don't have money to gamble with. And I had $66. I was like, Jim, give me like $100 or something. He wouldn't loan me any money. So I went off and I played a game called Let It Ride with, it had a $5 limit on it. And I was like, okay, I can play $5 hands. I ended up hitting a small jackpot for $850. That was, that qualified.

Starting point is 00:12:39 me to play in a $100,000 tournament. Of course, I didn't win $100,000, but I played in a tournament, but when I won that $850 off of a $15 bet, that was the first time I had hundreds of dollars. Mind you, I think I was 19. I didn't have money at that time, but it was the first time I went to a blackjack table and had hundreds instead of a hundred or two. And at that time, I didn't understand how to play blackjack, but I just came onto a winning streak. I couldn't do anything wrong. The table was coaching me around, coaching me, do this, do that, bet more, bet more, bet more. I was the guy at the table, I left with $3,650 off of $66. It's the worst thing that happened in my life because you couldn't tell me after that I couldn't do it every time. And it was always chasing

Starting point is 00:13:21 money, chasing money, chasing money. And at that time, you know, when I was 19, I think, you know, jobs are like five bucks an hour. And I just pulled over $3,000 in a couple hours. I'm like, yeah, this is, this is for me. I like this. And, you know, it was just downhill ever since and it was uh it it became you know the the whole i i really liked your interview the other day that i saw with matt bower the sports better and that i want to give him a little shout out about being so honest about his gambling problem is um that changed my thinking about i was already planning on coming here to see you but hearing his story i'm like okay i i need to expand on that and because gambling itself should be addressed as the addiction it is

Starting point is 00:14:05 You know, it's like I believe he said, it's like, okay, just don't do it. Okay, well, go tell a heroin or a crack addict, just don't do it. It's not physically possible. It's a mental as well as a physical addiction for some people. The gambling is, of course, mental and psychological, but it's an addiction. You can't, I mean, there's people that, you know, that they gamble away houses, they gamble away retirements and they can't stop. You know, it's, it gets crazy.

Starting point is 00:14:31 And, you know, I've tried the whole, I tried gamblers Anonymous a couple years ago. It was like four people in a room and all they're doing is telling war stories. And by that time, I'd served 22 years altogether in maximum security prisons in four states. And I don't want to hear this old lady talking about, you know, I lost $200. Oh my God, it's the end of the world. It's like, you know, but I progressed later on to, well, anyway, we got the, go back to 1993. When I was 18, 19, 19 years old. I fled probation.

Starting point is 00:15:06 I was on probation for something or other. That was after your year in county jail? Yes. I did the year when I was 16, when they could actually hold 16, 17-year-olds in a county jail. I don't even think they'd do that anymore unless you kill somebody. Gentlemen, I'm about to give you the secret to getting a girlfriend. Guys, enter the room, baloney baton first.

Starting point is 00:15:26 Blue Chew isn't just a tablet. It's a cheat code that turns date night into a Netflix original series. Stronger, harder, longer lasting, like you're down. downstairs just signed a Marvel contract and got its own origin story. Blue Chew is the original brand offering chewable tablets for better sex. Last time I took Blue Chew's tablet, my girlfriend swore she heard a theme song start playing. My baloney baton was out here doing choreography like a halftime show, lights, fireworks, and all. This isn't just about performance.

Starting point is 00:15:57 It's about creating a legend so powerful that future generations tell bedtime stories about it. Give her group chat a saga to break down over brunch. When you lay it down, they're going to talk about how it stood up. Go build your legacy, or should I say, your third legacy at bluechew.com. And we've got a special deal for our listeners. As always, get your first month of Bluechew free. Just use promo code locked in at checkout and pay five bucks for shipping. That's it.

Starting point is 00:16:26 Join Bluechew's mission to upgrade humanity one thrust at a time. head to bluechew.com for details and safety info. And big thanks to Bluechew for sponsoring the podcast. And yes, I now have a reoccurring subscription. And never graduated high school. No, I never graduated high school. I ended up getting a GED in jail and the Albany County jail. I, when I got the results in the mail, they thought the results were wrong because

Starting point is 00:16:50 I'd scored at the time, the top score you could get was a 325 on a GED. I scored a 303 and they thought it was a mistake because they'd never seen a 300 score on a GED before. But I was just happy because so much I'd got taken. If I went back to high school, I would have had to repeat ninth grade, or I would have had to repeat 10th grade. I already had to repeat ninth grade because of the truancy that I actually never did. But they failed me because of all this truancy that I, you know, just didn't happen. And so I, my highest level of education was some 10th grade and a GED. And, you know, I ended up trying college a couple times.

Starting point is 00:17:24 It wasn't for me. I'm just not a, I'm not a studious kind of guy. I'm a skilled tradesman now. I have a very good job. But working in a cubicle or working on a computer would never be the thing for me. Before you ever got in trouble, did you ever have a career aspiration or it just never happened? I wanted to be a major league baseball player. That was my thing.

Starting point is 00:17:42 I was always into Little League when I was a kid. And, you know, I just, I ended up trying out for, I was a ninth grade and a high school outside Syracuse, New York. And I went to try out for the varsity team. and I knew I had it and I ended I was a catcher the whole the whole time I was a baseball player I'd never played other positions I was just really good in that position through Little League and everything and I got to the tryouts and they were like oh we already have a catcher and I'm like oh shit I don't I've never played another position I don't know what to do and they're like oh try third base I got a line drive shot at me that I went to catch and it went right into my

Starting point is 00:18:18 right middle finger and broke my finger and that was the end of my baseball career I never I had a broken finger for the rest of the season so I couldn't play baseball and you know but I was into when I could I was into wrestling and gymnastics and got a little bit into jiu-jitsu before everything became Brazilian jiu-jitsu you know before the UFC the UFC was just coming out when I got into martial arts and you know I was never a black belt or anything but that was a hobby of mine at the time to exercise and work out and you know it it came in handy later on down down the road in prison just you know I I was never a big ass kicker in prison or anything I'm never going to be that guy that says you know I

Starting point is 00:18:55 oh my god i i fought 175 guys and i beat all 175 of them now that wasn't me in prison i you know i i i had to you know defend myself a few times and i did so just fine you know i got beat up once and you know it's just just how it is it's uh you know prison's prison's not a fun place especially when you're like me and you run your mouth to somebody that you shouldn't have run your mouth to and that's uh i got the worst beating of my life behind that one so you're 19 years old and you're on probation what happens i um i i just I took off from, I went on a little bit of crime spree down, down the East Coast stealing cars. I went down a car, I was pretty skilled at stealing cars at the time, and they didn't have all the

Starting point is 00:19:40 security features that cars have now, but I would drive down the coast. The car would run out of gas. I'd be like, fuck, I'll just go steal another one. You know, and, you know, rental car places generally leave the keys in the cars, which is very convenient for a car thief to just walk up and just drive it and walk away or walk in and drive it away. I got down to Florida. It was brutally hot and I was like, man, I'm just going to go back up the coast. I got pulled over in North Carolina for speeding. I think it was 19.

Starting point is 00:20:11 Trooper pulled me over. He ran my name or something or other and he was coming out to arrest me. Actually, I think the car came back stolen. and he came out of the he pulled me over in a Mustang and he had me sitting in the front seat because the backseat of police Mustangs in North Carolina there's no room for a for a prisoner and I saw him getting out of the driver's side when he got some code over the radio that said whatever and he got out of the driver's side and I kind of looked back and I saw him taking his handcuffs out of his belt and I said okay here's where shit hits the fan I got out of the car and I went back to

Starting point is 00:20:45 and I was pretty stupid I could have got myself killed I went back to the car where I was and I pulled a stun gun out. And we kind of had a showdown. And, you know, he's got his pistol aimed at me. I've got a stun gun in my hand and he's just like, put that down. And I'm like, no. And I just ran off. And they never caught me.

Starting point is 00:21:02 I mean, it's 30 years ago now, but they never caught me for that. They'd know who I was. I ended up having a bag in the car at my stuff that I left home with. And I had a business car to my probation officer conveniently in the bag that was left behind in the So got away from that one. I'm sure I ended up grabbing a Mustang. I think it was a 91 It was a 91 Mustang something or other stick shift and everything super fast car. I took it from somewhere and drove off got pulled out I pulled into a gas station like the next night with that car and it was obviously it's a very it was a cherry red Mustang and you know a cop was just like oh got him right there. I saw him looking at me. I saw him coming toward me and you know I'm like like, all right, here we go, high-speed chase.

Starting point is 00:21:51 Just gunned it and driving as recklessly as you can imagine. I was like 120. It was a digital speedometer on there. I really couldn't concentrate on a speedometer because I'm just trying to go as fast as this damn thing would go. And I remember the caution sign of curves coming up in the road, and there was just no time to slow down. I went flying off the road into a cornfield,

Starting point is 00:22:15 and the car just went. Thankfully, it didn't flip, but it just went spinning. And I was like, wow, that was interesting. And got out of the car. I'm kind of checking myself. I'm like, wow, I just lived through that. That's kind of crazy. And I saw multiple cops flying by that didn't realize I'd gone flying off the road into a cornfield.

Starting point is 00:22:37 And I was like, okay, here we go. We're running again. So I ran off. And I never got caught for that one. I don't know how that happened. But never, never got caught. They knew it was me, but I ended up with so much legal problems. that I think they just gave up on the whole prosecuting everything in every state.

Starting point is 00:22:53 They were just like whatever. And I ended up picking up a Corvette after that. It was a Corvette at some kind of service shop. I was an 81 Stingray Vet. And so I'm driving a stolen Corvette. I was in South Carolina. I stopped. And I was on my way back to New York.

Starting point is 00:23:11 I stopped somewhere and just got out to stretch my legs. and a cop happened to come by. I didn't see this, but I ended up finding out later on. He came by and apparently the vet was suspicious, and he ran the plates on it, found out it was stolen. While I'm just out literally stretching my legs and I come back and they've got a canine at the Corvette, and I'm like, well, that's not convenient for me to go back to that Corvette and drive off.

Starting point is 00:23:37 So I started to get away, and now I realize I'm surrounded by cops who had shown up, and I'm like, holy shit, what do I do? I ended up going into a door of a building to hot. and ended up with five burglary charges because the building led into a strip mall. It was closed. It was nighttime. Ended up leading into a strip mall that gave access through the attic crawl space to five different places. And they had me surrounded, but I was convinced if I hide long enough, you're not going to get me. You know, this stupid kid.

Starting point is 00:24:06 And they came in with the dogs and the pepper spray and everything tear gas to place, dragged me out of there, roughed me up, threw me in the back of the car. I ended up with burglary charges literally for going into a building. to try to get away from police who were there because of the stolen car. I got what they call Youthful Offender Act sentence in South Carolina. It was basically, it's like a one to six. And depending on the crime that you're in for, it was either seven, ten, or thirteen months minimum that you have to do. And you get, you know, if you get in trouble, you get extensions, like 60 days, 90 days, whatever.

Starting point is 00:24:38 I had a couple of cases in New York State as well that landed me with concurrent county jail time that was 16 months. It was two years. You have to serve 16 months. But so the whole time I'm in South Carolina serving that time, my time was counting in New York. So I was going to be in one or the other. And I knew that the county jail I was going to eventually in New York was really boring. And so I was in Lee Correctional Institution in South Carolina when it was literally brand new in 1993. I was the first busload of youthful offenders.

Starting point is 00:25:09 The place is split in half. It's got what they call the adults on one side and the youthful offenders on the other side. It's split down the middle. and I was in Kirshaw North when it first opened. I was the first one in one of the cells there. And it was, I didn't know anything about a real prison yet. I didn't know anybody in South Carolina. It hadn't been in another South Carolina prison.

Starting point is 00:25:29 All I knew is I stayed in reception for like two or three months waiting. And I saw guys leaving reception going to their facilities all the time. And I'm like, what the hell is going out? Why am I stuck in reception getting like one hour of wreck and one shower every two days? I'm like, can I just get to where I'm going? And it ended up, it was the why. in front of my number, which means youthful offender. They were getting all the youthful offenders out of the other facilities

Starting point is 00:25:50 and bringing them to Lee Correctional Institution to be specifically in that facility. So I got there and it was not bad. I mean, I met some decent guys there. But at the time, I didn't understand prison for what it was. I didn't understand the level of potential danger that you're surrounded by. You know, just because, you know, the people you're with are laid back and everything. You know, I got in one, two fights the whole time I was there.

Starting point is 00:26:20 Had some big guy trying me. This guy, I was a little guy. I was, I can relate myself at that age to you at 19 years old. And I was a skinny little white guy. I was 19. I probably looked like I was 12. You know, I could take care of myself, but by no me, I was probably 140, 150 pounds, so I could easily get thrown around by one of these big guys.

Starting point is 00:26:38 And I had this guy who was, I would say, man, he was the size of Shaquille O'Neal to me. at that time, but he was, it's just this enormous guy who caught a big attitude with me about using the washer and dryer at the wrong time. It was like their time to use the wash and dryer. It wasn't my time because I was just a young white kid. And, you know, I was like, all right, whatever. And then I made the mistake of kind of backing down from him. And he took that as an open door to think he had a victim going forward. Like, now you're going to be buying me commissary and you're going to be doing this and you're going to be doing that. And I, I didn't care. about getting in trouble because I knew if I got in trouble there and got extensions on my time,

Starting point is 00:27:18 I fell into the category that I would have to serve 13 months on that youthful offender sentence. The way my sentence was running concurrently in New York, I would have time to serve after South Carolina anyway. And if my time in South Carolina was extended, it was counting in New York anyway. So I wasn't getting released. Extensions didn't matter to me at that time. So I was introduced to a lock and a sock. And I said, you know, this is, okay, we're going to do it. You know, 19 years old, never been in a prison fight yet. I put a padlock in a sock, and I walked up behind the guy. And, you know, he was enormous, so I definitely couldn't just fistfight him.

Starting point is 00:27:55 And he must have sensed I was coming behind him, and I just hauled off with this sock and swung it as hard as I could to try to crack him in the head with it, not compensating for the fact of how long that sock stretches when you have a padlock, and it was a combination master lock. and it went around his head, hit him on the side of his head, flew out the end of the sock, and it just hit me square in the head and busted my head open with the lock and a sock that I intended to knock his ass out with. He got like a little cut. I mean, it dazed him.

Starting point is 00:28:26 He didn't want to have anything to do with fighting after that, but I got hurt more by my own lock in a sock than he did. I got my head busted open. I went to the box for that one. I don't remember how much box time, but that was my introduction to solitary confinement. It was, you know, the youthful offenders were in one area, which was, which was good. You're not mixed with the adults who were doing 20, 30, 40 years and, you know, have crazy crimes and all that kind of stuff. You're dealing with youthful offenders who were, who qualified for the youthful offender sentencing, which means they're not extremely serious. You might have an armed robbery and get lucky and get the youthful offender sentence, but everything was generally lesser than armed robbery that you're dealing with.

Starting point is 00:29:06 And I don't think even sex crimes qualified for the youthful offender, so you didn't even have to deal with that. of the facility. But it's interesting that the lock and the sock concept has been around. Oh, dude, you hear about it forever. I know you need to lock in a net bag. The mesh laundry bag is the key. Or get your extension cord and tie it on the end of that. And you don't have to worry about losing the lock.

Starting point is 00:29:28 I still will never understand why these prison sell locks. Well, it's, I just don't get it. They literally give you a very good weapon. They really do. If you use it correctly. But, yeah, it's, and it's the one thing I learned over the, years. I did my, I think I did like, ended up doing 17 months in Lee Correctional Institution. Well, South Carolina as a total. And where was your mom? Did you guys have a relationship at that?

Starting point is 00:29:52 Oh, yeah. My mother's fantastic. She just, I was a problem child. And she didn't understand and still doesn't understand, you know, everything that happened. And she's just, you know, to this day, I'm sure she's just grateful that I'm still alive after all I've been through. And I'm sure after she sees this episode and some things come out that she doesn't even know about she's been like Jesus what you're a maniac but you know I've been out for October 28th to be 10 years I'm doing good I I I own a home with my wife I'm a I've got a rescue dog I'm on my third motorcycle I got an almost brand new Nissan Ultima I've got a job that I'll be making six figures in next year probably high six well not high over 100 you know between 100 and 200 thousand I'll probably be making starting next year and uh you know

Starting point is 00:30:38 things are good but it's just it was it was a long road to get here and to understand and get out of that rut of addiction and mental health problems. But, um, so you do the 16, 17 months there. What happens after that? I went, I got extradited. I finished my sentence. I got extradited to the county jail in, uh, Onondaga County, New York. They called Jamesville. I had, I don't know, like two or three months I had to do there. I got released April 5th of 1995. And year I was born, a month before I was born. April 5th, 19th, and I still remember when I got there because I had my time calculated in my head how it should count. And when I actually got there, it was nighttime.

Starting point is 00:31:20 And you'll get a kick out of this. They hired the federal marshals to extradite me from South Carolina to New York State. And I get in Conair, and that was my introduction to the whole federal system. But got picked up at the Lee Correctional Institution, got brought somewhere. some county jail in Georgia, I think it was. And from there, I got transferred over a federal custody. Went to USP Atlanta, the holdover section. And I knew my time was counting in the county jail in New York because it was a concurrent sentence.

Starting point is 00:31:55 And this place, the holdover section, I was like, this is actually kind of cushy. It's, you know, it's federal. But the guys are warning me. They're like, listen, don't think, and mind you, I was still 19 years old, don't think this is cool. USP Atlanta is not the place for a kid like you to be. And I, you know, the older guys who had done time and were just in holdover for whatever other reasons were like, listen, mind your peace and cues, don't mess with these other guys. Don't let anybody know anything about you. Just get out of here.

Starting point is 00:32:22 And like two weeks go by, three weeks go by, four weeks go by. I'm still in holdover. And I'm supposed to be in the county jail in New York. And but mind you, my time's running concurrent. And it was a decent place to be in better than the county jail was going to. New York and like six weeks goes by and and some some guy was like dude you got to go talk to the counselor you're not supposed to be here you got to get up there and I put a slip in the box to speak to the counselor and they came down and they're like man we literally lost track of you

Starting point is 00:32:51 we didn't your holdover was never processed you you shouldn't even still be here we got to get you up to New York you'll be gone in a couple days so I was back on I got flown out to El Reno, Oklahoma spent the night in Oklahoma got flown to up to New York whatever airport that was and then I got passed over to sheriff's deputies to bring me to the county jail there and they processed my I got there at night and they processed in um processed me in they calculated my sentence and it actually was like two or three months earlier my release date was two or three months earlier than I thought it should be but it was just the legalities of how everything works with concurrent sentences and everything and and so yeah I got out uh April 5th of 1995 I think

Starting point is 00:33:34 I think I ended up doing like 20 or 21 months or whatever. And so what are you almost 21 at this point? I was 20 in April of 95 and just had no direction in life and didn't know what I was doing. Didn't really have I didn't have guidance. I had the gambling addiction that was ruining me because I was I was into committing crimes for money just to go gamble with, which a lot of people is going to sound absurd. but at least at this day I'm 50 years old now and I can understand that what I did was addiction based and when you get to the root of that addiction and snip that in a bud you're not

Starting point is 00:34:15 committing crimes anymore you know I'm not I'm not I'm not a criminal just to be a criminal I was a criminal because I had an addiction to feed and it was ferocious and like like I I can relate to you know people say oh just don't do that or it's it's not something you could tell to like a heroin addict or a crack addict or a you know a Xana addict, whatever they're addicted to it. It's not something you can just say, just don't do that. It's the person needs help. And gambling, what are they going to help you with for gambling in prison? They're going to be like, well, just don't gamble. We don't have programs. There's no federal funding involved. So we're not going to open a program for you casino junkies. So you come out

Starting point is 00:34:52 of prison with the same damn addiction you went in there with. And it's just a bad cycle. Going online without ExpressVPN is like leaving your laptop unattended at the coffee shop while you run to the bathroom. Most of the time, you're probably fine, but what if one day you come back and it's gone? That's what it's like every time you hop on public Wi-Fi without protection. You're just hoping no one grabs your data while you're not looking. As someone running a podcast, I'm constantly working on the go, uploading episodes, sending contracts, email and guests. I've used ExpressVPN while traveling and working from airports and hotels because I can't afford to have my passwords, bank logins, or even unreleased episode file stolen.

Starting point is 00:35:34 ExpressVPN gives me a peace of mind, knowing that my connection is secure and my work stays private. Here's why I love ExpressVPN. Their encryption is so strong, it would take a hacker with a supercomputer over a billion years to break through. And it's insanely easy to use. I just open the app, tap one button, and my connection is protected on my laptop, phone or tablet. no technology needed. Secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com slash locked in. That's EXPR-E-S-V-P-N dot com slash locked-in to find out how you can get up to four extra months free.

Starting point is 00:36:16 ExpressVPN.com slash locked in. Honestly, I'd say prison is probably worse for a gambling addict because it's easy. I mean, drugs are super easy to get in prison, but even at a place like a camp where there's barely any drugs. Yeah. There's gambling. Yeah. And, I mean, we were playing blackjack or everything.

Starting point is 00:36:33 Thankfully, thankfully prison gambling was never my thing. I'm a blackjack in a casino. I like the, I like the professionalism of a casino. I like, you know, when I'm on a, I'm on a winning streak betting. You know, I've been up to betting thousands of dollars a hand in blackjack and,

Starting point is 00:36:48 you know, all eyes are on you. You know, surveillance is watching. You're winning. That's the rush I get off of that. I don't, you know, I used to play football tickets and stuff in prison just just for entertainment, especially when I ended up in solitary confinement. And we used to, at that time in boxes of tobacco,

Starting point is 00:37:04 they were like 32 cents for the boxes of top tobacco at that time. And we would just get, I didn't even smoke. But I would buy piles of this rolling tobacco because that was currency in prison. And we would have these football tickets, you know, and my neighbor, God, I can't hear. Oh, Joe Hall, that was his name. He was a big guy. I think he was in there for a jail murder. I think he killed somebody in prison.

Starting point is 00:37:27 And he was my neighbor in solitary confinement. We used to put together bets all two pouches of tobacco on this one, three pod. And I used to kick his ass in this sports betting. And I knew nothing about sports betting. I was just not, he would get sick. His commissary would show up. They'd dump all this tobacco in front of his cell with the commissary. And he'd have to pass it over to me and be sick because he smoked and he had no cigarettes.

Starting point is 00:37:48 And I don't even smoke. And I got like 40, 50, 60 pouches of tobacco in my cell that I'm not even allowed to have that much. If they were to search myself, they would confiscate it because you're only allowed to have a certain amount. But that was just entertainment when I was in solitary confinement. So you get out at 20. What happens after that April of 95? Well, I, in 95, I was committing crimes for money. I was stealing cars.

Starting point is 00:38:14 I ended up with, I don't remember what car it was. An Oldsmobile, something or other. I took it from a rental car place. I burglarized the rental car place. I stole keys to the car as well as, it was a, about $1,000 in one of the desks in there. So to me, that was a big score. I was like, okay, now I got a car, I got $1,000.

Starting point is 00:38:33 I had another stolen car stash somewhere, a Chevy Blazer. And a friend of mine, I'm not going to mention his name, but a friend of mine at the time enjoyed joyriding with me in these stolen cars because we would just drive them like, we would drive it like we stole it, because I went out and stole it and we would drive him. We would race down the highways and everything. And he got nervous at one time. And we had, we decided to get rid of, there was something wrong with the Oldsmobile that I took

Starting point is 00:38:59 from the rental car place. There was like a tie rod issue or something or other that I certainly wasn't going to fix it. We were just going to get rid of the car. So he's like, oh, I know where we can get rid of it. There's a pond down near where I live. We're going to dump it in the pond because he was scared about the police finding out we stole the car. He wanted to get rid of the car.

Starting point is 00:39:16 I didn't really care because I would have just dumped it in the ghetto with the keys in the ignition and somebody else will steal it. Now it's their problem. It's no longer my problem. But he wanted to bring it to this pond and just drive it into the pond and be done with it and there would be no more car so i was like okay that sounds like a good idea we drove out there with that car and the chevi blazer and um it was february the pond is frozen it was a it was a construction site pond where i believe they were dumping material in and getting rid of it

Starting point is 00:39:42 and so the pond's frozen we drove the car up pushed the car out on the ice with the with the Chevy blazer and obviously wouldn't go through we were throwing cinder blocks over there trying to break the ice to try to get the car to go through now we don't know what to do he's all nervous about fingerprints, this and that. And I wasn't a sophisticated criminal at the time, but I'm like, dude, it's a stolen car. They're not fingerprinting anything. It's not that serious. We just leave.

Starting point is 00:40:06 And he ended up looking in a shed that was there and found some flammable items, like starter fluid and stuff. He's like, let's burn the car. And I'm like, whatever. I was like, I don't want to burn the car, but you can burn the car if you want. So I was physically there when it happened. He is the one who started the car on fire. and so anyway he he torched the car i remember hiding behind a a pile of dirt or rocks or whatever some

Starting point is 00:40:32 construction debris and he's literally stuffing a rag down the gas get down the gas tank trying to light it i thought i was about to see my friend die in an explosion i'm screaming at him get the fuck away from the car get the fuck away from the car he's not paying attention he wants this car destroyed and um anyway so we ended up spraying i did spray starter flu inside the car. He's the one who threw the rag in there that was lit on fire and poof, up goes the car. And on the other side of this little construction debris pond or whatever it was, the police lights light up. They were, it was, there was some railroad tracks and then there was a stream so the cop couldn't get to us, but he was witnessing us do this and we didn't even know it.

Starting point is 00:41:13 And so we see the lights. We jump in the blazer. I put the blazer and four-wheel driver going down the railroad tracks because there's no way a cop car is chasing us down the railroad tracks. and I'm it's you don't have to be going very fast to have a wild ride going down the railroad tracks in a and a SUV that's what I did I got away we got away with that one I ended up getting caught myself with the stolen Chevy Blazer sometime later they knew that that Chevy Blazer was linked to the car that got set on fire I go to jail and um you know a detective came down I fell for the whole detective trap and he's like listen we know this vehicle was linked to this vehicle, this vehicle was linked to a burglary. If you tell me everything, I can get you a good deal. And I was like, okay, well, fine. What do you need to know? They're like, we need to know who was with you at that time. We know there was two people. We witnessed two people. And I said, well, I don't know about that car being set on fire. He says, no, no. We know that the Chevy Blazer was there and you got, and you got caught with the Chevy Blazer. And I was like, well, I don't,

Starting point is 00:42:15 I didn't set the car on fire. I don't know anything about it. And who's the other guy? I said, I don't know another guy. And so we left it at that. but they ended up indicting me for arson of the car. And because it was basically a plea bargain deal. Like, listen, plea guilty to all this, we'll give you this. And so I have an arson on my record to this day that I was there. I'm not the one who lit the fire. But so I'm sitting in solitary confinement some years later.

Starting point is 00:42:41 I got sent to, but anyway, I'm reading the newspaper in the box in Southport Correctional Facility in 97. I had a subscription to my hometown newspaper, and I'm reading through, and there was, you just read anything when you're in the box. I'm literally reading election results. This name pops up. I was like, no, it can't be. No way that's him. A couple days later, official election results come out in the newspaper.

Starting point is 00:43:11 His first name, two middle initials, his last name, and the number. I'm trying to not be so descriptive of this person, elected as town judge. sorry, are you fucking kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me? The guy that I did time for that I kept my mouth shut for is now a town judge. He's literally the one who's responsible for the only violent crime to this day on my rap sheet. And so, you know, all the power to him, he got away with it. And, but that was just a, it's a weird thing of how lives can go differently.

Starting point is 00:43:43 And how much time did they give you for that? I don't remember. I ended up, um, I think, I think I got some county jail plus probation. And of course, probation didn't work out because I'm going to be stupid. And I ended up with some commercial burglary charge or something or other plus the violation of probation. I got sent away for two and a third to seven years. They'd had enough.

Starting point is 00:44:08 They were like, okay, you're officially a felon. Now you're going to prison. And I had all, I got to reception in prison at Elmira Correctional Facility is to reception. in New York that I went to and got to the counselor and they're dictating like what level of security you're going to. And she says, you'll be going to shock incarceration. Because I knew I didn't qualify because I had the, I had an escape on my record from DFI, Division for Youth. I had this somewhat violent case. Legally it's violent, not physically violent, the arson charge. And I was ecstatic. I was like, oh, I'm going to be home in six months.

Starting point is 00:44:45 Forget this two and a third to seven years. I'm going to be home in six months. Now, mind you, I had undiagnosed mental health issues I had an arson case I had an escape history three things that you should not be in shock incarceration for I did the best in the program I got 19 days from graduating and I got kicked out for some some absolute stupidity but um so I got removed from the program I got put in this thing called recycle where you you pretty much bust your ass for three weeks and earn your time back to try to get released had a little bit of a conflict with a staff member that had it out for me the whole time

Starting point is 00:45:20 and some of the other prisoners who were in there who they were sabotaging me because they knew I was going to get out and they weren't and they kind of sabotaged me and I fell into the trap of something stupid that I did, got removed from the program completely and I got sent

Starting point is 00:45:36 to a transit facility as a medium security facility attached to the shock incarceration facility. I'd been there before and I'd seen the fences and I was pretty daring at that time. It was an 18-15 foot razor wire fence. And I said, you know, if they, if I don't make it through this program and this is where they put me, I'm going over that fence. I'm going to be the one that shows them it can be

Starting point is 00:45:56 done. And so I got sent back to that facility. And my plan was, you know, why am I going to just sit here and go to regular prison? Mind you, I'm still young. Everybody, nobody wants to go to prison. If you, if you listen to these guys, oh, I was never scared, this and that, you're going to be scared. You don't know what to expect. You don't know where you're going. And I put up a plan. I had timed the perimeter truck. I knew when there was two facilities that the one perimeter truck would patrol. And I knew that once he passes,

Starting point is 00:46:26 you're not going to see him again for 20 or 30 minutes. And there was a laundry room in the dorm. It was an open dorm situation. The laundry room in the dorm had a broken window that you could open and literally go outside. It was supposed to be a secure window, but there was something faulty with it. It would open.

Starting point is 00:46:43 And at nighttime, the laundry room door was always kept locked. because of that window. And I convinced the officer, I said, I want to buff the floor with the buffer. And the only place to plug in the buffer is in the laundry room. That's where they had the proper receptacle for plugging in the buffer. And that was my way to have that door open. And so I had the door open. I slipped into the laundry room.

Starting point is 00:47:07 I had a couple, a few pairs of clothes on because I knew I was going over razor wire fence. I put some peanut butter and jelly sandwiches together. I brought a second pair of shoes to change my footprints when I got into the woods. I had it planned out pretty well. I thought I did. I, um, there was, I miscalculated a couple of things. There was a four foot fence and then there was about 12 or 13 feet to the razor wire fence. There was barbell racks in the yard that were eight feet high, eight feet long.

Starting point is 00:47:39 You stack the barbells on them. And I was like, well, if I pull that over that four foot fence and stack it up on its end, that gets me eight feet high. If I pull over the, it was like a ladder assembly for doing sit-ups, the thing that you can incline your setup thing on. I was like, that's a little ladder itself. That'll get me up here. That'll get me, if I get on top of the barbell rack when it's on its end, that's eight feet.

Starting point is 00:48:03 I'm almost six feet high, so we're 14 feet. I've got 18 inches of reach. I've got, I had a state issue prison jacket. That my plan was to the lights that were hanging over the fence to illuminate the fence. get my jacket over that and pull myself over the fence. In the heat of the moment, I did not land near the light. I landed between the lights because who the hell wants to be under a light when you're trying to escape from prison? So I landed between the lights. And I never compensated for the fact that the razor wire was added 18 inches to the height of the 16 foot fence. So now I'm in

Starting point is 00:48:40 a little bit of trouble. I got to, I got to scramble through. And there's no, there's no going back now at this point. I'd already, when I left the laundry room window, it was nighttime, I signed myself out of the dorm as if I was going to the library to watch a movie. So that would cover for my absence from the dorm for a while. And I took a garbage bag with me. The garbage bag had all my extra clothes and everything in it that I was going to change my clothes and change my sneakers and everything. When I got into the, when I'd officially put footprints on the ground, I was going to get rid of those boots and change my footprints. So, and I acted like I was, when I was going across the yard that was in the middle of the different dorms, I was acting like I was picking

Starting point is 00:49:19 up cigarette butts and putting them in the bag. So in case anybody looked out, they were like, oh, he's just got in trouble. He's got like a ticket. He's got to clean up. And that's how I made it across the yard because I know there was no way to get out across in the dark. You don't belong out there. But even if an officer would have seen me, they probably would have thought, oh, he's just outside cleaning up. So I ended up in the rec yard. I did what I did. I brought the, I built the best bridge that I could to get as high as I could on that. fence. I got on the top of the fence. I didn't understand razor wire until then. It basically closes in on you. It doesn't, it's not razors like people think. It's not sharp like shaving

Starting point is 00:49:53 razors. It's very, very pointy. And it's meant to collapse on you like a slinky and just wrap you up and you get stuck. And so I got stuck pretty good. I got to the top of the fence and I was really worried. I'd waited out there for a good 20 minutes for the perimeter patrol truck to come by. And he just never came by. And I'm like, well, I can't just wait forever. They're going to do count and I can't eat I physically can't even get back in the dorm now I'm I have this is do or die and I uh so I get myself on top of the fence I'm straddled on the fence I have my left leg over my right leg is completely stuck and as embarrassing as this sounds but to be as truthful as it sounds I had one of them damn razor wire things punching me in the testicle that's the situation I was in

Starting point is 00:50:35 I was literally my nuts were on the line with climbing this fence and I was stuck and I said wow this this is a crazy situation. How to hell do I get off of this? And I looked behind me and the damn perimeter truck was right there looking at me. To this day, they say this did not happen. I looked back. I saw that perimeter truck looking at me. I said, fuck, what's he going to do? Is he going to shoot me? I don't understand. I did everything I could. Pushed on the top rail of that fence. I don't know what kind of cartwheel or whatever I did off the top of that 16, 17 foot fence. I landed on my feet off into the woods and there was railroad tracks right there. When I got to the railroad tracks, I looked back.

Starting point is 00:51:12 The vehicle, the perimeter patrol vehicle had pulled up to where there was a shitload of damage to the razor wire. There was stuffing from my coat. And I had intentionally worn this dark green state prison issue coat because it's dark green. You can't get a better camouflage if you're hitting in the woods. Now the whole coat was ripped open and all the stuffing was out. So it was all white. I'm like, that's not very good camouflage. So I ripped that off.

Starting point is 00:51:34 And the perimeter truck was there. He pulled up. He stopped at the fence. I couldn't see inside the perimeter truck because of the glare on the level. lights but I'm like okay I know he can't see me this way let me just run and it was um maybe a mile to get to a main road that I I knew if they set up a perimeter the perimeter would be on that road and I had to get past that road it was oh my god it was unbelievably challenging to get through it was February 19th of 1997 when this happened everything was frozen it was just

Starting point is 00:52:06 ponds it was ice I was free I was soaking wet I'd fallen in into a pond because I didn't know there was a pond. I fell through the ice. And it was bad. And I ended up finally getting to now I'm waiting for the helicopters to go off. The time has gone by. I'm waiting for helicopters. I'm waiting for dogs. I'm not hearing any of this. I'm like, this is unusual. I don't understand why there's no response yet. I get up to a main road. And I knew that if I get across this road, this is most likely where they're going to set up a perimeter. And there's this one vehicle that kept going back and forth. I couldn't get a good look at it because every time I heard it coming, I would duck down into the valleys on the side of the road,

Starting point is 00:52:43 the rain gutter or whatever you want to call it. I would duck down in there. And this truck, this one truck just kept going. I had the same duster noise. It was definitely the same vehicle. It kept going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And I was like, all right, he's got something to do with hunting for me, but I don't see any other cops. I don't see helicopters.

Starting point is 00:52:59 I don't hear anything. I don't hear dogs. And I finally got across that road and ran into a vineyard. They're growing grapes up there. and I was like, okay, I think I just got out of a perimeter if they had a perimeter set up. It turns out, so I got into town, stole a car, of course, got across the state with no problem. This was out past Buffalo where the facility was. I got caught in Brooklyn 41 hours later.

Starting point is 00:53:28 I trusted the wrong person to wire me some money. And he was a person that was in the facility with me who got released. And I told him this was going to happen. I don't think he believed me. And he's like, dude, if you get out, just call me. I'll help you. So I got into a situation where I needed help. I didn't have any money.

Starting point is 00:53:44 I was doing what I could to get by. And I needed a couple hundred bucks something. He's like, okay, I'll Western Union to you. I said, great. I didn't understand Western Union. Western Union at the time all he needed was a password. And you could collect your Western Union to pick up from any Western Union. And he, mind you, this was before cell phones.

Starting point is 00:54:03 So I had to stop everywhere to use a pay phone to call him. And when I called him again, he's like, which Western Union? Union are you going to? And I told them 2424 Flatbush Ave is, I'm looking at the phone book, and I knew I was on Flatbush Ave at a public library. And this one was at 2424 Flatbushab. I said, send it to that one. So I get down to 24, 24 Flatbushab, and I get to the Western Union window. And I say, you know, I have a password for a Western Union cash transfer. And the lady's like, oh, there's nothing here yet, but, you know, maybe it'll take five minutes. I said, all right. So I left. I went outside. I remember I bought a scratch off lottery ticket.

Starting point is 00:54:37 with whatever a few dollars I had left on me I bought a scratch-off lottery ticket I went to the McDonald's and I got a cheeseburger and a strawberry shake or something came back five, ten minutes later it was a complete ambush

Starting point is 00:54:49 undercovers came out of everywhere it was the red rum squad of Brooklyn the murder squad that's who got me I went to I went back to the Western Union desk I had no idea at all these undercovers were in there and tried to get my money again and the woman behind the counter pointed at me

Starting point is 00:55:07 gesturing to somebody behind me and I had a can of pepper spray on me and it was in my hand just for shits and giggles you know if somebody tries to stop me I'm going to spray him and um so I get the pepper spray out of my pocket this guy grabbed my right arm and he says what's your name big big tall black guy in a suit and I said and I gave him some fake name and he's like you sure about that I say yeah what's up and I went I was going to pepper spray him I didn't I didn't know for sure he was copy it or anything and I just got shoved into the counter cuffed up. They can't, a woman with a baby carriage, this guy over here looked like a plumber. They just came out of the woodwork.

Starting point is 00:55:44 It was a, it was seven, eight, ten of them in the store waiting on me. This episode is brought to you by prize picks. You and I make decisions every day, but on prize picks, being right can get you paid. Don't miss any of the excitement this season on prize picks where it's good to be right. I've been having a blast making lineups this season. And this week, I'm locked in on three picks that I think are going to hit Jackson Smith, Injigba, say it with me, Injigba, more receptions. Sam Darnold loves throwing to him, and I think he's going to be one of his favorite

Starting point is 00:56:16 targets all year. James Connor, more rushing yards. The Seahawks D-line is giving up a ton of runs right now, and Connor is one of the most consistent backs in the league. And finally, Marvin Harris Jr., more receiving yards. He's Kyler Murray's deep ball guy, and I think he's going to break off a big play this week. Prize picks is simple to play. Just pick more or less on two to six player stat projections.

Starting point is 00:56:41 If you get your picks right, you could cash in. Plus, prize picks puts their users first with fast, safe, withdrawals, and tons of deposit options, Venmo, Apple Pay, MasterCard, and more. And my favorite feature is the flex play because you could still win, even if one of your picks misses. It keeps a game fun the whole weekend. Download the app today and use code Ian Bick to get $50 in lineups, After you play your first $5 lineup, that's code Ian Bick to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, it's good to be right.

Starting point is 00:57:15 I can't believe I'm sitting across from the real life Michael Schofield right now. Yeah, well, there's more stories to come. This is not the only escape incident. So anyway, I got dragged out of there. They brought me to Attica, dropped me off in Attica in the box, and gave me five years of box time. when I had escaped and I told somebody in the dorm of that facility that I was about to escape, he didn't think I was serious. And I said, I said, listen, either I'm going to be free tonight or I'm going to the box for like a year.

Starting point is 00:57:45 To me, I didn't understand box time in New York at the time. And I went to my hearing, you know, two, three, four days later after being in Attica and, you know, the captain from the facility who technically should never even done my hearing because he was directly involved in the investigation of the escape. He came and did my hearing. and you know I basically laid out a sob story I didn't understand how to attack it at the time he felt no mercy he was like listen you have seriously fucked over that officer who was running that dorm he's in a lot of trouble perimeter's in a lot of trouble we got to talk about that and I said what do you mean we got to talk about that he said what time did you hit that fence I said about eight o'clock sounds about right because I know I signed myself out of the dorm to go to a 730 movie in the library building and I waited around about 20 minutes for the perimeter truck to come around and he never came around so I had to hit the fence. He said, what does 806 sound like? I said, I don't know. I didn't have a watch or anything. I was never reported missing until the 930 count.

Starting point is 00:58:40 They ended up doing the count at 930. I wasn't there. They locked the facility down and it turns out that the perimeter guy who saw me on the fence, who saw me get out of the facility must have thought he was Superman, knew he was in a shitload of trouble and was going to catch me all by himself and that's the vehicle that was going back and forth back and forth back and forth on that road he tried to catch me himself he didn't report that he saw an inmate get over the fence he thought he was going to stop this in its tracks and that's that's how i got away so he ended up in a shitload of trouble but um so that that gave me the uh the ability to get away from the immediate area on that one so anyway sitting in sitting in attica and um so they gave me the five years

Starting point is 00:59:23 box time i'm like jesus christ five years what am i going to do with that and And so I'm on the gallery with Mark David Chapman, the guy who killed John Lennon in 1981. Really? Yeah. I don't know anything about it because, mind you, in 1981, I was six years old. I didn't know anything about John Lennon back then. But you want to just point the mic back towards you too? Sure.

Starting point is 00:59:44 So I was in the box for probably five or six weeks. And he was complaining. He was a porter and that he was in administrative segregation, probably for his own protection because you would be a prime target for somebody to get clout over putting a knife in or something even worse than that. So he was in protection and he was griping that they didn't have a porter for upstairs, the third floor of the box. He had to go up there and do dishes and all this other stuff.

Starting point is 01:00:12 And I was just like, hey, Mark, you know, if you need somebody to come out of the cell and work, I'm your guy. I got five years of box time. I'd be glad to be out of my cell working. And he's like, let me talk to somebody. The next morning an officer, I just happened to be up before, kind of, count time standing in my cell and this officer I'd never seen before. I kind of piqued his head around into my cell and he goes he goes you're looking for a job? I said yeah sure he says

Starting point is 01:00:36 all right let me see what I can do I like a couple hours later there were they brought me a bag and I said pack up your shit you're moving upstairs okay I didn't understand what I was getting involved in or not getting involved in and I just knew that they needed somebody to clean up upstairs and it would be out of my cell I get upstairs to the third floor and my immediate neighbor was Nash, the CBS killer from the 1980s. And I didn't know anything about these guys back then, but I, you know, that's who it was. And so I went in there and I locked the door behind me, like, because you're going to cell. You lock the door. And Don introduces himself to me. He's like, you know, my name's Don and, uh, are you the new porter, right? And I said, uh, I said, yeah,

Starting point is 01:01:18 he says, what the hell did you lock the door for? He's supposed to be out working. I don't know. What the hell? I don't know what's going on. And an officer came down, unlocked my door. And he says, Why don't you come out and we don't know what we're doing with you quite yet. We don't know if we can get this approved. But we need some cleaning up, some sweeping, some mopping, clean up, straighten some things up and grab some stuff out of the kitchen and, you know, lock in after that and we'll see what we can do. So I came out and I swept and I mopped and probably cleaned the showers,

Starting point is 01:01:42 whatever they need to done. And I grabbed like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich out of the kitchen. I didn't know that I could basically have raided the place and they wouldn't have given a shit. But I got a peanut butter and jelly and went and locked in. And then the next morning my cell door popped open. and at like quarter to seven in the morning, and it didn't lock until 10 o'clock at night. I was out. I was watching TV.

Starting point is 01:02:00 I'm doing box time, but I'm out, eating whatever I want, working out, going out. They have a segregated yard there that I could get to if I wanted. And my only two people I was technically allowed to talk to were the other porters from downstairs, which was Mark Chapman, the guy that killed John Lennon, and Keith Mondello from the Yusuf Hawkins murder. He was in there for administrative segregation because it was a big hate crime or whatever you want to call it at that time.

Starting point is 01:02:22 And they were the only two people I was allowed to talk to. they didn't want me intermingling with the other prisoners because I have access to a lot of things. They don't want me to help them have access to. Describe the cell you're living in for five years of solitary. Well, it started in Attica. The cell in Attica box is atrocious. It's Attica. It's six by eight, six by nine, maybe even five and a half by eight or nine.

Starting point is 01:02:46 Tiny little cell, but I had the porter job. So my cell door was open all day. I had a TV in my cell. I had everything I could possibly want. and all they cared about was that I work. So I'm up there working. I had the job for about five or six weeks, and I'm in an area they call the Octagon.

Starting point is 01:03:03 It's where they process newly guys coming to the box. They do the strip search and everything over there, and I'm painting cell bars just for something to do. And the lieutenant comes up who approved my having the porter job. And he says, hey, how you doing? I said, good. I really appreciate that you let this happen. and I appreciate being able to at least be busy.

Starting point is 01:03:25 And he's like, yeah, so Ronnie says hello. I'm thinking Ronnie. The only Ronnie I know is a prisoner on my gallery. And why the hell would the prisoner a few cells down send me a message through the damn lieutenant? That doesn't make any sense. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Ronnie Mizziki was a superintendent of the facility I escaped from. He was there for a conference that day with other superintendents.

Starting point is 01:03:47 He says, he asked about you. And I told him you're doing good. You got a job and everything. I was like, oh, I am so screwed. that day, I got a lot, I got, I was doing something for the meals getting ready. And the sergeant tells me, says, yeah, when you're done with that, go lock in, you're on the draft. That means you're being transferred. And the next day, I was transferred to Southport correctional facility, which is exclusively solitary confinement.

Starting point is 01:04:08 The whole, I think it's 1,500 beds. It was at one time, it was general population. And in 90 or 91, there was a big, a facility takeover of sorts, a riot, hostage situation. And the whole facility got turned into, solitary confinement. And so that's where I got transferred to with my five years. I got there and I just, I didn't know what I was getting involved in. You know, now, now I'm at the big leagues. I'm with the guys of maximum security prisons who can't even be a population. They're in, but New York State warehouses guys in solitary confinement, they give you years for things that

Starting point is 01:04:44 in other states is nothing. It's my very, my very first neighbor. So I moved in a cell and he's, You know, everybody wants to know who it was, I think it was 20-something sells on a gallery there. And everybody's, of course, when a new guy comes in, hey, what's your name? Where are you from? What are you doing? What did you get box time for? And I was like, well, I got five years box time. I jumped the fence in a medium and got caught in Brooklyn.

Starting point is 01:05:03 They didn't like that too much. And so this guy next door to me sends me over some paperwork about his case. I guess he was trying to show off. I wasn't impressed by cases at that time. But, you know, he had a couple, he shot a couple Gold Shield detectives in New York City and this and that. And he's like, yeah, I'm doing five years to us. man, what you get five years for? Dirty urine.

Starting point is 01:05:23 Dirty urine. This guy was doing five years of solitary confinement time because at that time in New York, they escalate. On your first dirty urine, say you smoke weed or you do some heroin, whatever your thing of choice is. If you're lucky, you would get like 30, maybe 45 days. But I believe at the time you could get up to 90 days for your first dirty urine.

Starting point is 01:05:42 Your second one, you're looking at double that. After that, double that. After that, double that. And when you deal with guys who have addiction, they're not going to stop using drugs. They're going to keep failing urine. tests and he actually had five years of solitary confinement time for a heroin problem is what he had and uh i was just like man this this place is crazy so i'm like all right we got to get out of here

Starting point is 01:06:03 this we don't we don't we don't want to be here and um i got in some trouble sometime later i wrote a letter they gave me two years more box time for writing a letter about a handcuff key about a way to get a hold of a handcuff key because if i go on an outside trip i'm going to take advantage of these cops and i'm going to get away uh the letter got returned to the facility from the girl's roommate who got nosy and read it. And so I go to the, I go to the hearing or whatever and they're like, yeah, you're guilty of attempted escape, attempted smuggling, attempted this, attempted that. And I'm like, I tried to talk my way out of it. And I'm like, it was just a handcuff key. You know, they're like, yeah, you're fucked, two more years, two more years in a box.

Starting point is 01:06:41 So now I'm doing seven years box time. On top of that, they put me, when Southport was originally general population, of course, they had a section that was the box. Now the whole thing, facility is solitary confinement and they still have that spot D block which is like the all-star lineup these are the turd throwers these are guys who are on galleries who are hated by so many people they don't get fed you know guys with real mental health problems that don't know how to get in there they held me there under a full restraints order which keeps me on level one which means even when I get my one hour out of my cell in a little cage and that's all you do is you go to another cage outside I'm in full restraints handcuffed to a belly chain with shackles on

Starting point is 01:07:19 That's my wreck time. And for seven and a half months, they held me on that status because as long as you're on a full restraints order, you can't move up to level two and get a little bit of commissary privileges. And I think it was maybe a more lenient wreck time sometimes or whatever. So I lived in the dungeon of the dungeon for nine months behind a handcuff key letter. I just wrote a letter about it. And anyway, I ended up coming down, just to be totally honestly, they ended up coming down on mental health problems from being in confinement. and I got transferred to a facility that was supposedly able to deal with mental health problems that Southport was not qualified for.

Starting point is 01:07:57 There's different services available or whatever. And I got transferred to Wendy. Wendy had mental health counselors and I guess they could prescribe different medications and everything. That's all they ever do in prison. They try to throw medications at you. Are you homicidal? Are you suicidal? No.

Starting point is 01:08:10 Okay, well, here's some Thorazine anyway. You know, that's your mental health treatment in prison. And so I ended up. in Wendy. I did God, it was, I ended up getting a cut in the box time toward the end. I had to write letter after a letter after letter after letter,

Starting point is 01:08:27 but they finally cut the box time down a little bit to like five years, from seven down to five years. Toward the end, I offered to paint the cells in the box because the place was atrocious and nobody ever responded. And then one day they come to me and they say, hey, you're ready to, it's like six or seven months later after I wrote one of the

Starting point is 01:08:44 captains or something. I said, listen, this place is atrocious. I'm not a threat to your security. in a maximum security facility. Why don't you let me paint these cells? Give me a paint brush and paint and move me to every single cell in the whole box, and I'll eventually get it done. You know, that's what I did in Solitaire in Danbury. Okay.

Starting point is 01:08:58 So anyway, I was waiting for this to happen, and it never happened. And then one day, I don't remember who it was, if it was a captain or an officer or whatever. Somebody stopped by my cell, and they're like, hey, you're ready to do that? And I'm like, ready to do what? They're like, paint. You want to paint? And it just like seven months ago that I wrote this letter asking permission to do this. I was like, sure, why not?

Starting point is 01:09:19 So now I had an officer in charge, you know, like a supervisor because I'm going to be out of my cell. And we power washed everything and painted all the cells and everything. And he was like, listen, they might really like that you're doing this. They might end up giving you, letting you out of the box. And I'm like, all right, well, whatever. I'm just glad to be out of my box and working doing something. And painted the whole damn box. We got all new plexiglass put up on the cells that needed the plexiglass for the shit throwers.

Starting point is 01:09:46 and so we had that place looking brand new. And sure is shit. When the job was done, they said, hey, Fitzpatrick, pack your shit. And I'm like, gladly. It was almost five years I'd done in solitary confinement altogether and got released from there in August of 2001, just before September 11th happened. I remember I was in C-Block, 1711 was my cell location. And I didn't even have a TV yet. You're allowed to have TVs in that facility.

Starting point is 01:10:16 in your cell. I didn't have anything yet. I didn't have any money to buy a TV. And my neighbor was like, hey, they had this thing called a satellite dish. You put a mirror on the end of a broomstick and you could see the TV in your neighbor's cell. And he would have an earbud that was plugged to the TV so I could listen. He's like, listen, when I go to rack or whatever, he said, don't do that when I'm in the cell. I'm in the cell. I'll leave the TV on and you can watch it through the satellite. And I was like, oh, okay. So I'm why he calls me over one morning. And he says, he says, Joe Kev. I said, what's up? He says, a fucking plane just hit the

Starting point is 01:10:48 hit the World Trade Center. And I don't have a TV of my own, so I don't know what's going on. And I said, well, that's weird. And, you know, at first, you know, it was all this misconception of what happened. Everybody thinks it's like maybe a little Cessna or something hit, hit the World Trade Center. And wreck time came. It was like 9.30 in the morning or something. And outside in the

Starting point is 01:11:08 rec yard was where there's a TV. And sure, shit, I saw the towers falling in real time. That was one of those incidents that happens in life where they're like, you will never forget where you were. And I still remember my cell location from that time. They didn't lock the prisons down that day. They did. They did for a brief time. They actually, I had a lieutenant actually asked me because I was into Middle Eastern studies and stuff at the time and all the conflicts that have happened in that region.

Starting point is 01:11:38 And over my time, I'd gotten a hold of some books that they didn't like me getting a hold of, but they had to give them to me anyway. and, you know, they were, so their, Lieutenant called me out and he said, what do you think about this whole thing with, uh, and I, I said, I said, it was just, they thought I had insight into what inmates might be in danger in the facility because of 9-11. And I'm like, why would inmates be in danger? That doesn't, that doesn't make sense. But, um, they, he's like, yeah, I don't know, but, uh, it was, I, I, I still remember a few days after that, we're out in the yard and that, like, because air traffic had been shut down nationwide. It's like, when the first, it's like, when the first, plane flew over, the whole yard just stopped and looked. Like, holy shit, a fucking plane in this guy. We haven't seen that in days. But no. Crack a Cayman Jack Margarita. And taste your escape.

Starting point is 01:12:26 It's America's number one for a reason. Cayman Jack is a premium malt beverage with flavors. Please drink responsibly. Camin Jack beverage company, Chicago, Illinois. Bonjour, compadre. It's the... Priceline negotiator. How do I negotiate so many great travel deals?

Starting point is 01:12:41 My greatest gadget. The Price Line app. It's got hotel deals. flight deals, rental car deals, all of those deals in a bundle, deals, game day deals, concert trip deals. No one deals more deals than price line. Hold your horses. There's more. The app let you filter hotels by neighborhood, vibe, star level, and amenities like pools and spas and beach fronts. Wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting me off.

Starting point is 01:13:04 Lyslide! Looking to start 2026 with an unforgettable getaway? Fiji Airway's sale is on now. Fly non-stop round trip to Fiji from just 748. Or enjoy a sunny Fiji stopover on your way to Australia with round-trip fairs starting from 839. As a one-world alliance member and American Airlines Advantage program partner, your miles go further across the South Pacific. Book now at Fiji Airways.com or contact your local travel agent. Conditions apply. That was just a big, something you'll never forget. So you do all these years in the box, which is a miserable prison experience for your first real prison experience, really.

Starting point is 01:13:46 what what goes on in your mind to get out and then laying yourself back in prison well well see here's the thing you get um from from wendy i got transferred to shawangunk and um there's a section of chowangunk called the close supervision unit that's where i got sent to because i had the uh the escape charge and um so anyway i go through there and it was just not a good mix because you had to be double-celled for like eight or nine months to get to get your own cell they put me in they had me in there at first with a child molester and it was just a disgusting situation i had to get i'd get him out of the cell and that created an issue they put me in another cell now i'm in a cell with a complete weirdo who's doing life sentence the guy's really weird really really really odd i didn't want to be in there and and it's you don't get to pick what cell you go in so it's in uh i it basically came down to okay i'm i'm going to rescind my agreement to double sell i'm also going to refuse to lock in my cell so i get taken to the box and I get transferred out of this facility because I don't want to be double-selled. And that's what I did. I just, I did it as peacefully as I could. I wrote the superintendent a letter and I said,

Starting point is 01:14:52 I'd no longer agree to be double-celled, which would eliminate you from being in that facility. And come Saturday morning, cleanup time, they open your cells and you could sweep and mop and everything. And I took my shaven razor and I put it, I went to the officer at the desk and I said, here's my razor. I'm going to be refusing to lock in. I'm not trying to be an asshole about this, but I know you have like 20 or 30 minutes before we have. to lock in, just let you know I'm not going to lock in. You can take me into the box. I'm done double selling. And they took me into the box and I was transferred out of there. I went to Elmira. Elmira ended up actually being a decent facility for me. I had a painter job and I had

Starting point is 01:15:29 pretty much roaming access of the block. I had a decent rapport with some officers who could, you know, make things happen that they don't ordinarily make happen for everybody. I met some, what I thought were some decent guys and ended up getting paroled from there in, um, 2004, I believe it was, finally made a parole board. And it took like three parole boards to get out of there, but I finally made one. And, or maybe it was even conditional release that happened. I don't even remember. Conditional release is when you do two-thirds of your sentence, you release unless they take the final one-third for good time.

Starting point is 01:16:02 2004, you're in your mid-20s? 2004, I would have been, or a little... 30? 30, okay. About 30. So I get released and never had treatment for mental health other than, then, trying to throw pills of something they didn't understand yet. Still had the gambling addiction.

Starting point is 01:16:18 And it's never been treated. And I was quickly back into gambling. And now I'm more sophisticated as a criminal in ways I can get a hold of money. And they ended up with a parole violation for, as a tricky situation. I did something. And I was a suspect in it. And they had the right guy, but they couldn't prove it. They were looking for a confession.

Starting point is 01:16:39 They showed up at my house and searched everything. And they're like, listen, we know you did this. And I'm like, I didn't do that. that. But they searched my car and they found some contraband and contacted my parole officer. And they were like, yep, lock them up. And so I got locked up for, I think it was a police, I had a police scanner. I had some other stuff in my car. And they're like, and they actually said, what are you doing? Robbing Banks? I hadn't robbed the bank yet. I was thinking about it. I hadn't done it yet. But they were like, all right, yeah, you're up to something. And so I got, I got brought to jail.

Starting point is 01:17:11 I did 90 days for a parole violation. Because in my, in my. classification it was a nonviolent conviction that I was in for and it was a nonviolent violation so you get 90 days as of the day that your parole hearing your parole revocation hearing is done you get 90 days from that date so you're going to be out in 90 days I go do that I get out they now they know I got the gambling issue going on they banned me from going to the casino and everything and and I didn't know that I actually left um in the parole office one time he had me empty my wallet they were searching searching me a little bit bit. I emptied my wallet and I accidentally when I repacked my wallet, I forgot my players club card for the casino and I literally left it on the PO's desk. I left the parole office and I'm putting everything back in my wallet and I'm like damn that the casino card's not here. Oh shit. I left it in that. Damn it. And that's outside the I'm not allowed to leave the county. I'm not supposed to be gambling and now he's got this evidence but I'm like, yeah, maybe they don't even pay attention to it. You know, I'm going to push to luck and I go to the casino and I'm sitting there

Starting point is 01:18:14 and I'm playing roulette, and I could tell somebody who's watching me from over here. A guy wearing a suit, and I'm like, all right, what's going on? And he comes out to me, he says, Mr. Fitzpatrick, and I just looked at him, and I said, yeah, he says, we got to have a word with you. I didn't know who he was. I thought he was a casino executive or something. And I wasn't into gambling big money or anything yet, so it certainly wasn't the amount of money I was betting or anything. And I see, yeah, sure. I said, can you wait until his spin is done?

Starting point is 01:18:41 The ball was still spinning under relativity. He said, yeah, sure, we're just going to walk to my office after that. this. It was an undercover state police stationed in the casino. And they were waiting for me. My parole officer didn't call me and say, hey, listen, stop going to the damn casino. He called the casino and said, listen, if he shows up, arrest him. So I get arrested because they knew I was up to so much no good. And this is all they could get me on. So I go to jail again. And come out of jail. And at that time I got out, I did another 90 days. And I get out. And the only place they would allow. I had friends.

Starting point is 01:19:14 I could have lived with. I had my parents I could have lived with. And they said, no, you're going to live in a homeless shelter. That's where you're going. And because they wanted me under, under their thumb. And they wanted me living somewhere that was very controlled. I was there for like two days. I was in touch with a woman who lived in Connecticut. And I was like, I'm not staying in a damn homeless shelter. I'm taking off. I'm not. It was a very, I couldn't sleep in there. There was guys, you know, mentally ill guys wandering the hallways at night. There's a guy over in a corner yelling at the corner at like three o'clock in the morning. And I'm like, I'm supposed to sleep here. This is, I'm not, I'm not staying here. And so I got in my car. I still had my car and I left. I fled the state. I was like, screw him. I'm going to take off. I'm going to go to Connecticut.

Starting point is 01:19:54 This hot girl is like, you know, me and my friends, you know, we'll do this. Well, we're not going to tell anybody you're here. I'm like, and I was young and stupid or, well, I wasn't young anymore, but I was still stupid. And so I went out there and I was like, well, I'm out of state, you know, nobody's going to know who I am if I pass a couple dangerous notes to bank tellers to get money. And that's what I did when I was out there in Connecticut. I passed a dangerous note to a bank teller in New London, Connecticut. I blew all that money at a casino pretty quick. I went up to a casino in a bank in Grafton, Mass, and pulled a bunch of money. It was like $8,000. I got out of

Starting point is 01:20:33 that bank teller. But as I robbed that one, I come back, and now I come back and I see the girl. And I didn't know. She was different. when I showed up at her apartment and she was like, I don't know if I want you to stay here tonight. And I was, I had all this money. I didn't really care about that. I was like, all right, just let me get my stuff. I'll get out of here.

Starting point is 01:20:53 I didn't know that she'd gone. I had made a fatal mistake in what I did and looked up the news articles of the robberies on her computer. She went behind me after I left, you know, curious about what I did on the history of her computer and sees the ad with a definitive picture of me as the one who robbed this bank teller with a dangerous note. and so she calls her friend. Her friend is like, oh, my God, that's 100% him. That's her quote from the police report.

Starting point is 01:21:21 Oh, my God, that's 100% him. She is the one who called the police. Now, I don't know that that's the reason she didn't want me her apartment anymore. I just left. Now, I have police that have put two and two together with their help, but I don't know it yet. And I'm coming back to New York.

Starting point is 01:21:36 I had, I don't remember how much money I had. I had quite a bit of money. And I'm driving on the New York State Thruway. My cruise control was set at 68 because I know not to speed. I was a smoker at the time. It was a stick shift little geo prism that I was driving. I had just my left hand on the wheel. My right hand was with a cigarette.

Starting point is 01:21:58 Cruise control was set at 68. It was exactly midnight. Wham! Fucking deer was right in the middle of the road. I never saw it. I had enough time to react to grab the wheel with both hands and make sure I don't lose control of the car. The deer destroyed it.

Starting point is 01:22:13 It was a little geoprism. doing 68 miles an hour against that full-sized deer, it's going to destroy the car. A couple miles later, the radiator was dead. It was smoking and everything. I was like, okay, I just need to get to like the next, I had thousands and thousands of dollars in my pockets and in the trunk of the car. And get to the throughway off ramp. And I was like, okay, I'm just going to grab all my money, grab my little scram bag that I had and go. I said, all I got to do is find a trucker and be like, dude, I got $200 for a ride.

Starting point is 01:22:44 that way. I didn't know where I was going. I was just like, I have money. I'll be good. I get to the throughway booth and there's a trooper literally right there. My car died, maybe 30 or 40 yards from the toll booth, just completely quit because the radiator had been destroyed. He pulls up. He says, is anybody injured? I said, no, no. I said, I hit a deer. The deer is very injured. And he says, okay, well, it's just a deer. There was no other vehicle involved. I said no other vehicle. He says, well, I'm doing, what was it? I'm in charge of southbound traffic. You're in northbound. I'm going to call somebody that's in charge of northbound to come up here and do a report. He was going to leave. I just got done robbing banks. I have significant evidence in my car.

Starting point is 01:23:31 I had other things in my car that would get me in a lot of trouble. And it turns out he called the other state police and they were busy. So he says, oh, I'm going to stay. I'm going to do the report. So he's not leaving. He hadn't run my name yet. I hadn't given my ID yet. And he turned his back, it was nighttime. He turned his back to do whatever he was doing on his laptop in his car, and I just hit the woods. I was gone. I had all the money. I had a bag. I had, you know, I was over a fence. I was through the woods. I was gone. And I was like, okay, now the chase is on. It's on foot. I got, I don't know, maybe like a half mile away. And everything was settled down. And I was like, okay, I'm just going to hunker down and kind of hide this out. And they snuck right up. I mean, a damn,

Starting point is 01:24:12 dog. They had, this dog was like a damn ninja in the woods. I heard it sniffing on the side of the fence and I didn't know it was a police dog. I thought it was like a raccoon or something. It was the other side of a wooden fence. I just felt the pawing or something going on. And I was like, that's weird. So I moved off into the woods this way and I saw, I saw individuals in camouflage outfits running down the side of the road. I'm like, oh, shit, that's cops. They're, they're in like tactical gear and everything ready to hunt me down in the woods. And, And I laid down in the dirt. I started taking the money out of my pockets and stashing it and everything.

Starting point is 01:24:46 And I'm like, okay, if I'm going to get caught, at least this money's going to be here. And when I get out, maybe I can come get the money again. And they unleashed the dog on me. Lucy was the dog's name. Lucy and I had a little tussle. Lucy got the better of me. And, you know, they dragged me out of the woods, beat the hell out of me. Threw me to car, brought me to jail.

Starting point is 01:25:05 They don't know I'd rob banks. They don't have that yet. They just know I had a lot of money. They reported $5,033 was in my pockets. There was much more than that in the car and discarded that I was trying to stash. I get brought to the state police barracks and they say, all right, where's all the money from? What's up with the money?

Starting point is 01:25:24 I said, listen, I'm a gambler. It comes and it goes. And they're like, yeah, whatever. We're, okay. And so I'm like, whatever. I'm looking at 90 days for a parole violation again. You can get three of those, three 90-day violations. I'm like, whatever, I'm going to jail for 90 days.

Starting point is 01:25:39 I don't really give a shit. I mean, I gave a shit, but you're not going to get more than that. And it turns out I get booked into Orange County Jail in Newburgh and got the $5,033 put in my account right away when I get brought in. And they had called some supervisor or something. They had to put it in a special safe or whatever. And so I'm in the jail for like two days, got served my parole violation paperwork. And then my opportunity comes up to go to the commissary. And you fill out your little sheet and you turn it in.

Starting point is 01:26:08 And it came back later on insufficient funds. I went to the officer's desk. I said insufficient funds. I'm trying to get like $30 worth of soap and shampoo and snicker bars. Could you pull up my account? And it says $5,033. He says, oh, let me find out what's going on. And there was a little tiny hash mark next to my account balance that means it's frozen.

Starting point is 01:26:29 And I was like, oh, fuck, you got to be kidding me. That day, hey, you got a legal visit. I thought it was an attorney or a parole officer or something coming to serve me more paperwork. and it was detectives. They said, hey, so we know where you got the money from. So, well, that's a bad thing. They showed me pictures of me robbing the bank tellers with these dangerous notes. And they wanted to know, did you have a gun on you?

Starting point is 01:26:51 And I may or may not have, but that never came into play. And I said, I said, no, I, you know, I'm going to need a lawyer. I'm going to plead the fifth on this one. And they're like, okay, well, we're taking the money forever. You had a marked bill in your possession. It was a recorded bill from one of the tellers. We know for a fact that's where you got it. We have pictures of you doing it.

Starting point is 01:27:12 I said, well, I'm still not talking. I need an attorney. And I was like, okay, ever since my arrest, I had a handcuff key that was part of my bootlace. It was like a camouflage sort of thing. It's something that some police carry in case they ever get handcuffed. They have a handcuff key access for them. A lot of, you know, military guys use it or whatever. And it was just something that I had on my bootlace.

Starting point is 01:27:36 the whole time. Now when you're in Orange County Jail and you go to the little town court, they dress you out in your street clothes that you got arrested in because you might potentially get released from the town court when you go there. Now I had felony, I had felony warrants pending in other states. I'm not getting released, but I'm still going to the town court being processed the same as the other individuals. And I know my handcuffs key is there. I think it's there. They'd never said anything to me about it being found. So I go to court. The first time was a trial run. I went to court and I was like, like, okay, I need an adjournment. This is going to work out really well if I do this next time.

Starting point is 01:28:10 Not quite yet. I got to get a hold of some sneakers. I got to get this handcuff key back into the jail. It was it was carbon fiber or plastic. It was not something that would bring a metal detector. And you're planning to escape prison again, a second time? A court trip. Yeah, a transport. So I go to now I'm facing, now mind you, I'd done a lot. And if they had put more two plus twos together and the feds took the case, you know how that goes. My lights would have been shut, shut out. I would have probably never got. out of prison. I mean, they could have put like interstate, you know, what is it, interstate trafficking of crime or whatever. You cross state lines to rob a federally insured institution and stuff like this. It could have been really bad, really fast. And there were more things I'd done that they'd never been. They knew I did it, but they couldn't quite, they didn't have evidence.

Starting point is 01:28:56 They were, uh, so I got a hold of my handcuff key from my, from my outfit that I had. And I said, the next court trip I'm running. I got a hold of a bullshit little pair of knockoff, Converse sneakers. That's all they sold in the commissary there. And so I got that. I started jogging around the little tiny exercise yard that they got. And one of the guys was looking at me. He's like, this guy's up to something. What's he doing all this running for? And I actually told him. I said, listen, I'm running. If I get a chance, I'm running. And he's like, all the power to you. He never told on me. He never said anything to the cops. And I went to court. I had the cuff key. And I was the way they had me

Starting point is 01:29:37 had you restrained it was it was handcuffs no black box it was handcuffs to a belly chain excuse me it was handcuffs just to a chain there was a chain on your cuffs that go to your shackles and that was a very convenient way if you're planning to escape because what I did in the back of the van I unloosened the handcuffs so they were just on one click

Starting point is 01:29:56 so I could slip out of them really easy and the the cuffs the shackles on my feet I unlocked and I took the shackles and actually tucked them into my socks and pulled my pants over him so it still looked like I was shackled but with the access to that chain on my wrists that was connected to the feet all I would have had to do is yank up and the shackles are gone and run and that was my plan so I had I was totally unrestrained in the back of the van and get into the court and I'm shuffling really slow because I don't obviously don't want the shackles to fall out of my socks and fall on the ground before I'm ready to run and I get in and this one guy behind me is like this stupid MF or what the hell is he walked so slow for i'm like what are you know hurry to get to the damn judge but uh so i get in there and i see the judge i asked for another adjournment and it was it was just a like a misdemeanor um fleeing police or something that was my misdemeanor charge and uh i was like okay we got two deputies

Starting point is 01:30:51 that transported i think it was seven or eight prisoners that they're in charge of and i said there's i i had eyeballed i'd sized them up there was one that looked like a linebacker and i was like i don't want him chasing me he he could catch me really easy there was one that I was like, I hope he's the one. Because I know if I hit the ground running when I get out the door, both of them are not going to chase me. They have to stay and guard the prisoners that they have. And I intentionally did it when the prisoners were between the door and the van,

Starting point is 01:31:18 and they weren't secure anywhere. So we get out the door and I just, it worked out. I slipped the cuffs off really easy. I yanked up on the chain. The shackles were off. I just hit the ground running. Oh, I heard screaming and I was just gone. I mean, you get tunnel vision in situations like that.

Starting point is 01:31:33 The adrenaline's going crazy. I just ran and I got into the road. I almost got hit by a car. It was nighttime. I was in an outfit that was a, I had black cargo pants on and a black nylon jacket at night. I'm like, this is good. I have a jump on them. I was in moderate shape for running and I run across the road, almost get hit by a car,

Starting point is 01:31:55 get across the road into the woods. The woods, it was uphill. And I look back and the cop was down there. and it was it was the cop that I would have preferred to be chasing me because I'm like, yeah, this guy, I got this guy beat. Just, I had sized him up and I thought I had him beat. So I'm running through the woods uphill and obviously I'm not in running shape at the time. But I did the best I could.

Starting point is 01:32:16 I get through the woods. I lost him. I look back. I don't see him. There was a big box. I know, now I'm out of breath. There was a big box fan, a box truck right there. I go, I open the door to the box truck and I go to get in just to catch my breath.

Starting point is 01:32:29 Get out of sight and catch my breath. And I grab the steering wheel. to pull myself up. I hit the damn horn. Hunk the horn. And now I'm like, fuck, I just alerted him where I am. I get out of the van. And I get out of the truck and I start running again. He's on my ass again. I said, damn, I got to lose him again. So I get to run in. And I look back a couple times and he's having just as hard a time running as I am. I get around a house, lost, he lost sight of me. And I dove under a guy's porch. And the damn nylon jacket that I was wearing made such noise scraping across the concrete floor that he heard it. And I

Starting point is 01:33:02 I was trapped. I couldn't get out from under this damn porch and now I'm like oh Jesus here we go. So we're caught again. He got me and got brought off to the jail. I had left in the van a staple, a heavy duty staple from a law library book as a decoy for the handcuff key. So in case shit hit the fan and I got caught, I would still be able to protect my key and say, and when they say, what did you use to unrestrain yourself? I would be like, oh, that I dropped it in the back of the van, It's some kind of staple or something. It is physically possible to do it. I've done it before.

Starting point is 01:33:35 But so I get brought back to the jail and they're booking me on an escape charge and everything. And, you know, my adrenaline. I really, at that time, I'm like, I thought I was getting life in prison. I'm just going to run again. My next time, I'm going to be in better shape. I'm going to do it again. And get to the jail. Now they've got me shackled to a bench.

Starting point is 01:33:56 They're having this conference with these officers. Half of them are like, there's no way he, on restrained. himself with that freaking staple. They're like, he's got a key somewhere. He's got a damn key. His parole officer says he carries handcuff keys. He's got a handcuff key somewhere. They can't find it.

Starting point is 01:34:10 I had swallowed it. It's plastic and I had swallowed it, so you're not getting that. And so get back to the jail. There was a certain sergeant in there. Every day, this guy, they put me in the box, of course. They gave me six months of box time for the escape. I wasn't going to be there for six months. I was going to process my escape charge really fast and get sent upstate.

Starting point is 01:34:30 so I wouldn't be in the box. And then once I get to state prison, I can start doing interstate agreement on detainers to take care of these warrants on these bank teller robbery cases. And so I'm in the box or whatever. And I mean, this guy, he, I could hear him coming every time because the doors were so loud in there. And every time the door would open,

Starting point is 01:34:48 I'd be like, okay, this is potentially somebody coming to search me looking for this damn handcuff key. They're never going to find it. I'm not going to let them find it. Every time he would come to me, I would come out of my cell, I would come out of my cell wearing just boxer shorts and flip-flops.

Starting point is 01:35:01 So I wouldn't even get patted down. They're just like, yeah, just stand over there. We're going to search yourself. And that one sergeant, if he sees this, he's going to know who he is. He was like a bloodhound.

Starting point is 01:35:09 He wanted that handcuff key so bad. He knew I had it. I was just like, dude, it was the staple. I don't have a handcuff key. And so anyway, I get, I get one and a half to three years

Starting point is 01:35:21 for class E felony or whatever it was, Escape Second. It was, that's an E felony New York State. The max you can get a two to four. I got a one and a half to three. They were just that little bit of leniency because they knew I had the other cases

Starting point is 01:35:34 and they were like, just take this and go. I was like, all right. So I get sent to downstate reception that time. And sitting in reception and getting processed with medical, the handcuff key had not come out for it. It was like two or three days that I'd been there. It had not come out. And yes, I was going to retrieve it. This was my key to freedom. And hadn't come out yet. And there was a process of getting x-rayed for the x-ray your upper body for tuberculosis in your lungs. And I was like, man, I can't get x-rayed when I got this damn key in me. This is going to be a problem. And I'm looking around. I'm like, I can't just refuse to get x-ray. That's going to look funny. I got to get dragged out of here and have this x-ray happen at another time. And I'm looking. I'm like, where is the nearest real pedophile looking guy,

Starting point is 01:36:23 just a prime target to just haul off and sucker punch the shit out of them and get dragged out of and it dragged to the box, which would protect my key that I would need in the future. And just before, I'm getting shaky, I'm lining up. I'm like, that guy looks like one of them. And I really didn't care who. I just, I wanted a proper target. I didn't want to just haul off on somebody that didn't deserve it. But that guy looked like somebody that deserved it.

Starting point is 01:36:48 And the officers, the nurse who was processing the x-rays called an officer over to view the x-rays of a guy. This guy had dreadlocks. And called him over to see. the x-ray he had earrings in his dreads that he had was trying to sneak him in and the earrings showed up in the x-ray and i could see the x-ray on the x-ray board from where i was sitting and it only covers the top portion of the chest your lungs because they're looking for like tuberculosis evidence or whatever that is and i was like oh thank god it's not even it's not going to show where my key is so i'm like okay we're not we don't have to haul off on somebody to get dragged out of here so

Starting point is 01:37:21 I did the x-ray, nothing showed up. Get to, what facility was I at? They took me to Great Meadow, great-com stock, as it's called in New York. I was doing okay there. I wasn't doing a lot of time, but I had the bank cases out of state. And I was like, well, I got to do,

Starting point is 01:37:41 I got to take care of those cases. So I get, I'm in population for a little while. I met some guys I thought were fairly decent, playing handball, getting in shape, and and then a notice comes in the mail. My prior sentence, I'd been in fights with staff at a psychiatric hospital. And I had a lawsuit pending because they pummeled the shit out of me when they could. But they, I got a notice that my court of claims case against them was coming up for trial and you would be transported to such and such trial.

Starting point is 01:38:15 It was another, a medium security facility visiting room where they were going to hold my trial. and I said, okay, we got a court trip coming up. Great. You know, another chance to run. And so I've got my key and everything, and I went on this court trip, and it was a perfect storm of events. They, it was two old COs. I kind of feel bad for you guys that you got wrapped up in this. They know who they are.

Starting point is 01:38:42 They're going to see this. Didn't intend for you guys getting trouble. I was protecting my own ass, but we went. to a facility, a Washington correctional facility, to have my trial on my court of claims thing. The judge, it dragged out a little bit. The judge at the end was like, okay, I want motions done on paper. And I was like, Judge, can you explain?

Starting point is 01:39:01 And she's like, just put your closing arguments on paper and send them to me, and I'm going to make my determination. I said, okay, it's fine. Now we're leaving a facility. They're handcuffing me back up. Now, New York State, when they transport you, they put the black box on you and everything. I had the cuff key on me,

Starting point is 01:39:17 but I actually made another one out of plastic and made that one. And this was only a trial run. I wanted to see if this one would work. So I'm in the back of the van. The officers had only clicked the cuffs on one click. With the black box, that's ineffective because I could slip my hands right out. All I got to do is undo the shackles. I'm in the back of the van.

Starting point is 01:39:38 I use this other cuff key that I'd made out of a piece of plastic. And it worked perfectly fine. I was like, wow, this key works. And the officers were, and the transport van has a clear plexiglass divider that completely separates you in the back of the van from them driving in the front. And there's no way that they can give you anything without opening the door. Now, they're having this little debate between them about stopping at either Burger King or McDonald's. Burger King won. The driver was like, I'm stopping at Burger King.

Starting point is 01:40:07 I said, okay. I didn't say okay, but I'm thinking to myself, okay, well, the next Burger King going down this road is literally in the town where I live. it's right there. I was like, this is very convenient for the simple fact that I know the area very well. I know how if I can make, if I can get enough distance, I know there's houses I can get into and just hide and just disappear. That was my plan. So I was like, okay, well, this is not a done deal.

Starting point is 01:40:31 We got to get out of the van somehow. And get to the Burger King. My shackles are off. My hands are out of the cuffs. I'm like, what do I do to get this damn van door open? Because I'm going to run. And they, um, I told him I got to pee really bad. I know you're not going to open this door to let me out to pee.

Starting point is 01:40:53 Could you please get me a, they're in the drive-thru. I said, could you please get me a cup? I'll just pee in the cup. They still got to open the door to give me the cup. And they pulled over. They get through the drive-thru. The driver got his wopper or whatever he got. The other guy got whatever he got.

Starting point is 01:41:07 They pull over to the end of the drive-thru. The driver's sitting there, stuff in his face with the wopper. I am literally crouched right. on the other side of a totally clear plexiglass divider crouched at the door waiting for this door to open because I'm going to barrel into this guy and haul ass. And he gets out, the windows were tinted a little bit. They have no radios. They have no cell phones.

Starting point is 01:41:29 They have no way to call for help. And this was just a perfect storm of events that let this thing happen. And I hear the keys go in the door. And I'm like, okay, when I hear that latch click, I got to go all out. And the passenger is the one that's got the 38 on them. They had 38 revolvers at the time. and I'm like, okay, I don't know if he's going to shoot. I don't know if he's not going to shoot, but we're about to find out.

Starting point is 01:41:51 I heard the door click. I grabbed it the hardest, the best I could. I grabbed the door frame and just launched myself out of the car. I really don't know what had. I felt him on the side of my arm. I'd like maybe try to grab me or maybe I brushed up against him or something. But I just heard like, holy shit. You know, somebody said that.

Starting point is 01:42:08 And I just hauled off running. And bam, the first shot comes off. I said, oh, he's shooting. I said, all right, now we got to start zigzagging. I started zigzagging through cars in the Burger King drive-thru, so he didn't get a clear shot at me. And I knew I had him on foot because he was, I was in decent shape then. I wasn't in prime running shape, but I was in decent shape.

Starting point is 01:42:30 And got to a fence that was a little too high to, it was a privacy fence of a house, it was probably six or seven p high. It would have stalled me to scale the fence, and I would have, but I don't want to get shot in the back. And so I just rounded around the fence. I heard the second shot go off. I felt the whiz of it go by. And he swears in the incident report that he fired it my legs. I heard a whiz.

Starting point is 01:42:52 But anyway, I got her on the fence. I looked back. I don't see him anymore. I'm like, all right, he's dusted. He's not going to catch me. I get like four or five houses down. I cut through a backyard and there's a fence to get to. There's Route 481.

Starting point is 01:43:07 And I need to get across this highway. And I go to hop the fence. Mind you, the belly chain is still on me with the handcuffs. where the black box is still there. The fence didn't have a top. It was a chain link fence. It didn't have a top rail on it. So there's no real secure way to get over it.

Starting point is 01:43:21 I kind of launched myself over. The belly chain of my restraint on my waist got stuck between where the fence comes up like this. That went right through the link in the chain. And I was stuck on the damn fence going over. And I'm like, you got to be freaking kidding me. The chain is, I'm literally hanging on this fence. This guy's going to come up behind me and put all, he's got four more. grounds left in the gun, a speed loader or two left in there. He's just going to unleash on me.

Starting point is 01:43:49 And I didn't hear him. I'd made enough distance that he wasn't, they couldn't find me anymore. I'm sure it turns out that somebody in the drive-thru got on a cell phone to call for help for them. They'd called in to the police, escaped inmate, shots fired. The call was a little confusing for the responding officers. There were some that thought I was the one with the gun. And so you can imagine the police response. I got off the fence. eventually. It was probably a minute that I was stuck there, but I was literally getting straight. It was like 95 degrees out that day.

Starting point is 01:44:19 I'm getting strangled by this damn fence, by this chain around my waist. I finally get off. I run across the highway. I get behind a landscaping business and there was a garden hose there and I get some water real quick and the sky comes out. He said, what the fuck are you doing? And I just look

Starting point is 01:44:35 suspicious. I was like, mind your business. I just kept walking. I took my green shirt off which was my state issue shirt. I put the plastic cuff key and the pocket. I took the shirt off to kind of, I had a white t-shirt under it to kind of blend in a little better and not fit that totally green outfit anymore. And I kept walking. I was about probably 200 yards from a place where there's swamp land. And I knew I, there's cases where people go in there and they get lost. So it's a real easy place to unintentionally get lost. I'm like, that's where I got to get.

Starting point is 01:45:03 I want to lose anybody that's going to be following me. If I get in that swamp, they're not going to be able to track me with a dog or anything. And it was that close. And there's two sheriff's deputies that come flying down the road. I saw him. And the worst thing to do when they've already seen you is to run, because then they know that's the guy. We got to catch him. So I sat down on top of a cement block with my back to them. I dropped the shirt on the ground that had the cuff key in the pocket. And I just rolled, I was totally exhausted, just worn out. It was brutally hot. I was strangled by that damn waste chain. It came up behind me with guns drawn, get on the ground. I'm like, well, and I could hear tons more police.

Starting point is 01:45:41 these sirens coming. And life moves fast. Your banking should too. At Poppy Bank, we know every financial journey is unique. That's why we offer a variety of checking accounts to meet your needs and goals. With a Poppy Bank checking account, you can expect excellent service, advanced security, and tools to help you manage your finances with ease. Visit one of Poppy Bank's many branches to explore our interest-bearing checking accounts today

Starting point is 01:46:04 because we believe when you earn more, you can expect more. To find a branch near you, visit poppy. member FDIC. This podcast is sponsored by IQ Bar. Not to be a stereotype or anything, but I am one of those go, go, go, girls. So I have so much stuff that's always on my plate. And I always try to grab something on the go after the gym. And it's always so hard to find something that's actually going to be good tasting and good for you.

Starting point is 01:46:30 Right? Because every time you grab a protein bar that looks like it's going to be okay, you flip it around and you start to read the ingredient list and it's all sugar. And it's all stuff that you can't even pronounce. All I want is something good to eat. IQ Bar is the better for you plant-based protein snack made with brain-boasting nutrients to refuel, nourish, and satisfy hunger without the sugar crash. IQ Bar has low sugar, low carbs, and it's actually really good.

Starting point is 01:46:53 Optimize your mind and body with IQ Bar's clean, functional products like protein bars, hydration mixes, and mushroom coffees. Go to IQ bar.com today and enter promo code Brain IQ to get an exclusive offer just for our listeners. 20% off all IQ bar products plus free shipping. That's IQBAR.com. promo code brain IQ. Iqbar.com code brain IQ. Mind you, I'm still thinking I'm facing life in prison. These are just incidents they're going to happen until I succeed in getting away.

Starting point is 01:47:20 You really love to escape present. It became dangerous. And now I'm getting shot at when I do it. So I get to, they get me cuffed up and everything and get me in the back of the car. And the only thing I'm thinking about is that damn handcuff key that's in the shirt, the shirt pocket that's laid out on the ground back there. And I'm catching my breath in the back of the car. And they're like, they had an ambulance show up. They're like, are you shot?

Starting point is 01:47:46 You know, because we know there's shots fired. They're like, did you have the gun? Because there was that confusion. I was like, no, I didn't have anybody's gun. I said, they shot at me. They were like, are you hit? I said, no, he didn't hit me. So the ambulance showed up.

Starting point is 01:47:57 And I'm asking the cop. I said, can you do me a favor and get my shirt? Because they had a handcuff key in it. And he's like, no, that's evidence now. we're going to bag that up as evidence. I don't know whatever happened to that handcuff key, but wherever it went, it's still sitting there. They don't know.

Starting point is 01:48:14 This is 19, this was July 27, 2006 when this happened. And that handcuff key has been probably sitting in a storage locker and they don't even know it all these years. And they wanted that key so damn bad and they couldn't get it. Can you tell us how you robbed the bank? Notes. Just notes. It was, you know, give me the money.

Starting point is 01:48:31 I have a gun. And, you know, bank tellers, they have to, that's their policy. They give you, they keep the top drawer between three and four thousand dollars. to limit the amount of money that you can get. If you're robbing them and you see them emptying the drawer, if you don't know that they have a bottom drawer, I mean, the bottom drawer is the one you want to go to.

Starting point is 01:48:47 That's the one where all the big drops are, the excess cash, you know, there might have been a business just came in and deposited $10,000. They're going to put that right in the bottom drawer. They can keep the top drawer between $3,000 and $4,000 to, if they're robbed, that's your money. Here's a little recorded serial number for you,

Starting point is 01:49:02 maybe a die pack, whatever we can give you. It was just notes. I mean, I carried a BB gun that I never pulled on anybody and a pepper spray just because my fear, not really fear, but my guarding myself was from a hero customer. You know, the bank tellers aren't going to chase you. It's the hero customer that might be like, oh, I'll go get them. You know, he would have got what looks like a real gun pulled on him and got pepper spray in the face. And, you know, that's not something I wanted to happen, but to guard my getaway that would have happened.

Starting point is 01:49:29 Do you get nervous? Like when you write the note, you're inside that bank, you have it in your pocket. What's going through your mind? It's, it was, in that frame of, I was mentally ill. I was in manic states where your, your, your thinking gets corrupted. You think, I mean, obviously you know you're doing wrong, but it's just easy to do wrong things. And, yeah, it's nerve-wracking. I mean, I went, the one in Connecticut was, I waited in line patiently like everybody else and just went up and, hi, can I help you?

Starting point is 01:49:58 And I passed a note over and I was the $3,000 or whatever, she ended up passing over. And I just, I put it in my pocket and I left. got in my car and I drove away. But this was in 2006 before there was cameras like everywhere. And it was pretty easy to make a getaway. And the one in Grafton, in Grafton Mass, I had the typical bank robber costume of sunglasses and a baseball hat. And I had, you know, I had clothes under my clothes to change my outfit really quick.

Starting point is 01:50:29 And there was no direct line of sight of my car, so they wouldn't know what I got in to get away. and they had a sign on the door, please do not wear these items in this bank for our, it was sunglasses and a baseball hat. And I kind of chuckled as I go to hit the door and I open the door. I come around the corner and the woman's like,

Starting point is 01:50:46 oh no, she just instantly knew I had that look. And I was like, yep, empty the money, put the money on the counter. And I didn't know it at this time until I got the police report that the woman next to her knew that I was robbing the place. She took her drawer and emptied it on the floor. So I couldn't, so if I would have,

Starting point is 01:51:02 if she would open the drawer, I would have seen an empty drawer like she didn't have any money. If I would have jumped over that counter and took the money, there would have been money all over the place. I just didn't see it. I didn't know what happened. That's actually pretty smart. Yeah, she guarded her money.

Starting point is 01:51:14 And, you know, it was like eight. I mean, I've gotten much more money in other crimes that I was not caught for, but that bank was like $8,000. So how much time do you end up getting for the escapes? The bank robbery. 14 years. 14 years I did just for escapes. I did 22 years altogether, but on and on and

Starting point is 01:51:33 off. It was not all in one clump. But that last time after that was about it was about 10 or 11 years altogether. And that brings you to 2015 when you go out. That gets me yeah I get prosecuted for the escapes and now I'm like okay Connecticut was merciful on me because I had 10 years 11 years to do New York. It was 10 years worth of escaped sentences to escape sentences in New York and my time I owed parole to add it up to like 11 years and Connecticut was like all right we're going to give you two years. how nice of them. Yeah, it was very nice. And they gave me all the credit for all the county jail time and everything that I dragged out as long as I possibly could because otherwise I go back to New York and I'm in the box.

Starting point is 01:52:12 So I go to, they gave me that two years and they were like he's still got the other unarmed bank robbery case in mass as well. We don't know what he's going to get out there. So let's be easy on him. So I go back, I get sentenced to my two years in Connecticut and I get sent back to New York. and now I'm with a handcuff key again because I don't know what Massachusetts is going to talk about and get transported to, well, actually, after the Burger King incident was my introduction to, facilities in New York have cert teams, correctional emergency response teams. They have one for every facility. They also have Albany cert, which is like top of the line. These are military guys.

Starting point is 01:52:55 They're no bullshit. These are, you know, who transport the top 10 escape risks in the state all the time. And my introduction to them was, they held me in a police substation for a little while until they could come up, until they could show up and pick me up. And, you know, I knew as soon as these guys showed up. They were the, they mean business. They're not regular correction officers. And they're like, well, have a nice safe ride your destination. We have submachine guns in back and we don't miss.

Starting point is 01:53:22 So that was my introduction to them. And, you know, they didn't put their hands on me or anything. but they were, and I was like, where are we going? Because I knew I wasn't going back to Auburn. Because you never go back to the, I technically escaped from Auburn custody. You never go back to that facility that you escaped from. And they wouldn't tell me where I'm going, but they're like, yeah, we can't bring you back to Auburn. They will kill you if we bring you back to Auburn.

Starting point is 01:53:43 And they were serious. I probably would have been beaten to death. If you know anything about the politics in New York State prisons that's going on now with literally being caught, beating guys to death, I probably probably would have ended up one of those guys. So they brought me to Great Meadow, put me in the box there, gave me seven years of box time for escape and assault on staff. But that's when I started breaking up the box time with the trip to Connecticut, then the trip to Massachusetts, come back to New York. And now I'm like, okay, well, we don't have to escape anymore. They gave me five to seven in Massachusetts for unarmed robbery.

Starting point is 01:54:17 They ran it concurrently and gave me credit for the county jail time, sent me back to New York State. where I'm doing, I had years more to do, and it's all counting toward Massachusetts. Connecticut washed their hands at me. They're like, we don't even need you anymore. We're just going to, you know, we're happy. We don't, we don't need you when you're done with New York. And so I, I, they took all my good time in New York. They, my ticket, your good time is your final one-third of your sentence. You automatically get released at two-thirds done unless you have a recommended loss of good time. And they hold a hearing and they determine how much they're going to take for misbehavior, for lack of programming, for the reasons that they take good time for. And my ticket, they recommended I lose 99, I didn't have 99 months potential good time. That was just a signal to down the road like get this guy good. Don't give him shit. They took all my good time without a hearing, which is critical because you're allowed to have a hearing on your good time being taken. So I was able to put in, they called an Article 78 challenge to have them properly redo the hearing. And so I won. The courts told the facility, listen, give him a hearing on his good time. I doctored paperwork. I went back to see. a captain he's going to get a kick out of this i uh went to see the captain uh attica for my he was my he was in charge of my time allowance committee hearing to reconsider my good time because he had to do a proper

Starting point is 01:55:35 hearing and um so i had that i had a couple fight tickets that were recommended loss of good time and and uh so i get before him and he's like all right what why are we giving you back good time what are we doing here i said listen captain i'm a pain in the ass security wise you guys don't want me here i have sentences to do out of state i i had doctored the paperwork from connecticut to make it look like two years consecutive. I had doctored the paperwork from Massachusetts to make it look like five to seven years consecutive. It was all concurrent.

Starting point is 01:56:01 He didn't know that. He wasn't looking into it. I said, listen, here's the paperwork. I got two years, Connecticut, five to seven in masks that are consecutive to each other, which is consecutive to here. You're talking about seven to nine years I have to do after I get released from here.

Starting point is 01:56:13 Why don't just give me back my good time and let me go to the other states where you don't, I'm not super high profile anymore and I don't have to go through these cert team transports and all this crazy stuff. Just get rid of me. he's looking at the paperwork and he says well okay i'm gonna i'm gonna restore your good time and i was shocked i said what do you mean i said is albany going to allow that the heck because it's got to go to

Starting point is 01:56:33 albany to get approved he said don't don't worry about albany i'll take care of albany so now i have to wait for an official notice from albany that it's it's gone through and i get my notice back that good time was restored you have a CR date a conditional release date of such and such and i was like wow that worked that was technically escaped number five because now that i didn't have to out my time in New York. I got processed out to Massachusetts. I went to Walpole for reception, and I get there and they calculated my time. It was roughly two years or so I had to do. So I would be released completely from custody altogether in two years or thereabouts, whereas if my good time had still been taken to New York, I would have served more than that

Starting point is 01:57:16 before I even went to the other state. So I get to Walpole and sitting in restay. I had three three points. They do your whole point system and it's like five points or less is minimum security. I had three points because my criminal offenses were so many years prior and I didn't have a disciplinary record in Massachusetts yet. So they were like, all right, you have three points. Five or less is minimum security. I'm like, I'm going to a minimum. It's like, holy shit. They're like, no, you're level A designation. That's automatic max. You're max forever. And I appealed it, appeal to appeal. I'm like, listen, all those escapes were when I thought I was looking at life in prison, we don't need this level A thing. I don't want to go to your maximum security prison.

Starting point is 01:57:53 And that's Susa Baranowski and Mass, Shirley Max, as they call it. And it's a serious place. It's the only maximum security prison in Massachusetts for population. I mean, Walpole is still there, but that's all reception and medium security class guys that are just working the mess hall and stuff like that. I tried to stay on Walpole.

Starting point is 01:58:13 They said, no, you're going to Susa Baranowski. And so that's where I went. And I ran, it was not bad for me because there were guys from Worcester County Jail. I was in Worcester County Jail for like a year. Fight in my, well, not fighting my case, but just getting adjournments after adjournments until I couldn't get adjournments anymore.

Starting point is 01:58:32 So I met some decent guys, and they knew I was a decent guy, you know, prisoner-wise. And so when I got to Sousa Berenowski, I met up with some guys from the county and they kind of spread the word like, yo, that's Fitsy. He's not from around here. He's, you know, bank robbery cases.

Starting point is 01:58:48 He doesn't fucking tell on people. He's solid. He saw some stuff happen in the county. When they asked him about it, he didn't know anything. You know, I saw an attempt of murder happen in the county, and that's how the guys were prosecuted. But, you know, when they came to me as a witness, I was like, no, I was in my cell. They're like, no, we have other people that say you saw everything that happened. And I said, nope, I'm not getting involved in that.

Starting point is 01:59:08 So that kind of spread around that. But so I'm sitting in Susan Baranowski, and they say I was earning five days a month. I got a hold of a, they call them runners. In New York, they call them quarters. And Susan Beronowski, they call them runners. They're the guys in the cell block who do the cleaning and, you know, mop the floors and clean the showers and stuff like that. You can earn five days a month good time off your sentence just for having a job.

Starting point is 01:59:32 So I was doing that. I was earning my little good time. And the guys are respectful in there with those jobs because they have four runners. They do it racially proportionate. They do like two black guys have the job, one Hispanic guy, one white guy. They keep that in every block. Or at least they did when I was there. And they didn't have a white runner at the time.

Starting point is 01:59:49 And I went to the officers and I said, hey, I heard you, heard you need a white guy to be a runner. And he said, yeah, what's your story? And I told him, I said, I said, listen, look up my case. I'm not in here for any weird shit. I robbed a bank teller. I got escape charges in New York. I'm almost on my way out the door. And they're like, all right, you got any enemies in here, this and that?

Starting point is 02:00:08 And I said, no, I stand to the radar. I don't get involved in all that stuff because mass prisons are very, very gang-oriented, especially the Max. And I was never expected to click up with any. because it's all it's like a lot of neighborhoods like the Boston guys the southy guys they have all these different clicks and everything and I'm from Syracuse so I don't I wasn't expected to click up with any of these guys and they just they they they basically okayed me having the runner job because I was earning good time a guy with a life sentence is never getting out why would he

Starting point is 02:00:38 have a job where there's good time involved let a guy have it who can earn good time off his sentence and make sure it's a guy who's not gonna be working with these cops so that's that's what I was doing for a while I had an issue with jail time credit, when I was sentenced, the judge said verbatim in the sentencing to include time spent in custody, my five to seven. They never credited it. It was 210 days. They never credited it when I went to Walpole and when I went to Shirley Max. And I knew I was entitled to that. All the guidance counselors or whatever they call them up there, they're like, no, you're not, the law says this, that you don't get credit for that time because your time was running concurrently

Starting point is 02:01:16 in New York. I was like, no, I remember what the judge said, and I guarantee you, if I do this properly, what the judge said is going to override what you think, because what the judge says is your sentence. It doesn't matter what the law says. That's what the judge said. So I had to get the transcripts. It costs a couple hundred dollars to get a hold of the transcripts. It took forever to get them. Finally get the transcripts. And thank God that word of that, that one phrase in there, to include time spent in custody, I was like, I got them. It's on paper. I put it. I put in a mo, basically it was like a habeas corpus or the equivalent thereof in Massachusetts where you're literally entitled to immediate release. And I presented my case on paper with the transcripts.

Starting point is 02:01:57 And I said, I am now serving that time that should have been deducted for my sentence. I am entitled to immediate release. And I filed the paperwork. I sent it off. I had conferred with some jailhouse lawyers. And they were like, dude, you got a winner. Get that in the court. I fired it off, did priority mail and all that. And so I'm waiting. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. And some time goes by.

Starting point is 02:02:21 And I said, you know, how long is it going to take to get an answer on this? And this guy comes up to me. He says, call the courthouse. Do it, get on the phone. Do a third party call. Call the court clerk. See what's going on with the case. And I said, all right.

Starting point is 02:02:32 I got on my phone with somebody who could make a three-way phone call because calls were collected at the time. And obviously the court house is not going to be on your approved list of people to call. So I called somebody to do a three-way call to the courthouse. and I said, my name is Kevin Fitzpatrick. I have a motion pending in court. And the court clerk says, oh, my goodness, you literally just won your case. They're doing the paperwork on it right now.

Starting point is 02:02:55 And I said, hang on. What do you mean I won my case? They said, the time that you're trying to get credited, the judge agreed, it's the same judge who said those words years prior. And he's sticking to his word. He's given you credit for that time. I said, shit, I'm out of here. Like now.

Starting point is 02:03:11 And so I'm waiting. I'm waiting. I'm waiting and I'm locked in my cell at the time. My cell used to open all the time because I was the guy who was passing out meal trays and mopping floors, whatever the whatever cleanup stuff needed to be done. My cell door pops open and I piqued my head out because I would never go down to the officer's desk myself for no reason because that's suspicious. You know, guys want to know what you're going down to the desk for.

Starting point is 02:03:37 And there was a counselor down there and the officer said, counselor wants to see you. and it's loud enough that other guys could hear what's going on. So I go down there and guys knew they're like, this is big. It's unusual to see people even get released from that facility, let alone get released like now, get him out. And I went down and I talked to the counselor and the guy said, do you have any idea what's going on?

Starting point is 02:03:57 I said, I think I do. He says, you know you're being released, right? I said, yeah. He says, how much time do you need to pack up and we got to get you out of here like now? I said, give me five minutes. I said, I got a bunch of legal pay. I had pending legal actions in courts. And I said, I need five minutes to go get my legal paperwork, tell these guys to kiss my ass,

Starting point is 02:04:19 I'll never see you again, pass my TV off to the guy who I promised it to, whatever, you know, radio, whatever, whatever stuff I had that meant nothing since I was getting released. And they were like, okay, and the officer was like, okay, you got to lock in for a minute. So I go to lock in my cell. And I'm just waiting for the door to open again. And then, I know, some time goes by, 10, 15 minutes, whatever. My door buzz is open again. come here we got to talk to you

Starting point is 02:04:41 I go down to the desk and the counselor's back and he says we can't release you today. I said what do you mean? You have a court order to release me. He says you because I still owed parole to New York State in Syracuse. He says you can't make it to the parole office by 6 o'clock when they close and you have to be able to report the same day you're released. I said

Starting point is 02:04:57 that's not true. I said now what if I was released from California? How am I going to be to that parole office by 6 o'clock? You got to release me. She said no, the superintendent or the warden, whatever their title is out there, said I just release you first thing in the morning. So we can get you on a train and get you to Syracuse. So obviously I didn't sleep that night.

Starting point is 02:05:13 I'd already given away my TV thinking I was getting released that day. So I'm in my cell with nothing. And as like quarter to seven in the morning, I didn't sleep at all. And I've been locked up for 10, 10 and a half years, whatever it was. And, you know, that was the beginning of another manic state with the whole bipolar thing. And I was like, okay, we're getting released. Go to getting processed out of there. It was just this big, I had a big paper bag.

Starting point is 02:05:37 It's got 30 or 40 pounds of, of, legal paperwork and a paper bag. I just had the jail issue closed that they release you in because I wasn't prepared to get released. I just had to wear what they gave me. And the guy, the officer puts me in the, well, he didn't put me in. I'm free now. I get in the vehicle with him and he's driving me to downtown Boston to get to the Amtrak station. And he says, we get down there to traffic gets all crazy. And, you know, I'm like, I get really irritated sitting in traffic. And I'm like, I'm free, right? And I'm still verifying this. I'm like, I'm free. He's like, dude, you don't have any handcuffs and shackles on. You're free. I'm bringing you to the bus station. And I said,

Starting point is 02:06:12 and we're sitting in traffic. He says, yeah, I said, goodbye. I picked up my bag. I opened the door and I left. He's like, I can't do that. I'm supposed to bring you to the bus station. I said, I'm free. Goodbye. Have a good day. He's like, bus stations that way. I had no clue where I was, I'd never been to downtown Boston in my life. I'm wandering around downtown Boston and you know how have the signs for the tourists that say like you are here, China towns over there and this is over there, this is over there. I'm trying to find the bank where I'm supposed to cash my check for my funds. It was like $7 or $800. I had in my account. And I need that money in order to be able to get home. And I go to the bank that the facility gives you printed directions to get to this bank

Starting point is 02:06:51 to cash your check with this ID so you can get your money. And I finally found the place. And I'm like, I just got released from prison and I need to cash my check. Oh, we don't do that anymore. I said, are you freaking kidding me? How am I supposed to get my? I have no money. Nothing. They don't give you cash. They give you a check. And I said, all right, well, what do I got to do? And they're like, you got to go to such and such. And, but anyway, I got to wherever it was, a different location. And now I got to get to the train station.

Starting point is 02:07:16 So I'm wandering all over there. I got this big ass paper bag. And I'm looking suspicious, but I don't even know it. I get stopped by the anti-terrorism unit of downtown Boston that, from what I understand exists after the marathon bombing. Now they had these specifically, they're labeled anti-terrorism or whatever the title was. and this lady pulls me over and she comes up to me. She's like, hey, can we help you?

Starting point is 02:07:40 And now this is a cop and I'm, I've just got released from prison. I said, listen, I just got released from the maximum security prison. I don't know where I'm going. And they're like, okay, because you just look suspicious. And more, more of these anti-terrorism cops had rolled up. And they're kind of laughing. And they're like, and they looked in the bag and God forbid it's a pressure cooker in this mysterious bag.

Starting point is 02:08:01 And it was just legal paperwork. They're like, oh, okay, you got to get to the bus station. we'll bring you to the Amtrak station. They brought me to the Amtrak station and bought my ticket and I went home and I was up for God, five days of not sleeping. But I finally, at that time I got, I had to do like 18 months on parole. I had the worst parole officer you can imagine because you can imagine the paperwork that comes with me, assaulting staff, fighting in prison for escape charges.

Starting point is 02:08:32 I run every chance I get. I'm going to fight you every chance I get. So they paired me up at the same. I would call him The Terminator is how he would dress up. I mean, it was always, I had to crash with my parents for a time being because I didn't have any worse to go right away. And I think it was like the second time this guy ever even came to my parents' house to check up on me, my stepfather was like, Kevin, what do we got to do?

Starting point is 02:08:54 I don't want this guy in my house ever again. That's the impression he gives to people who aren't even the parolee. I mean, he comes in the whole level four body armor, two guns. he's got these boots to have heels on him like this high coming around he's he's he's a determinator he's just a complete piece for a parole officer i mean people think of parole yeah they're there to put you back in prison if you get in trouble but your parole officer should also be somebody that is helping you coordinate getting your life together you know like do this do this do this and we're going to be happy this guy didn't care about anything

Starting point is 02:09:28 except locking me up and i could tell he had police stalking me in the neighborhood i was i was big into running them because I had such a complex about being caught on foot so many times that I took up distance running and I became addicted to it. I ran my first marathon in December. I got out October 28th of 2015. I ran my first 26.2 on December 17th, I believe it was. I just set the GPS on my phone. I told my stepfather, I'm going for a run and he got nervous like four hours later calling me like, where are you? I'm like, I'm running. I took me, I think four hours and 17 minutes, but I ran a marathon. and so I'm dealing with this shitty parole officer who just wanted to destroy my life any chance he got and everything was combative with him. It was all, I had a seven o'clock curfew at night.

Starting point is 02:10:15 I wasn't allowed to drive. I wasn't allowed to get a driver's license. I wasn't allowed to do this. I wasn't allowed to do that. And where I was living with my parents is out in the suburbs. They don't even have buses that go to where my parents live. So I'm like, what about transportation? I can't, I can't even transport myself to a job if I can't get a driver's license to get a vehicle. And he's like, oh, you work at Dairy Queen. They'll take you. You're a felon. You know, I'm like, dairy queen. I'm like a skilled tradesman. I can get a good job. I just need to be able to get myself there. And, but that was his whole attitude was I'm going to make your life miserable and you're going to work at Dairy Queen. I'm like, this guy's a scumbag. And he

Starting point is 02:10:50 knows who he is if he sees this. But in the meantime, my, my brother, it was on December 5th, I, I was on a dating app. And so I'm out of prison. I'm looking to get with the ladies. I'm on this dating app, and I'm literally swiping right, swiping right. I like everything. I'm not even looking at profiles or anything.

Starting point is 02:11:10 I'm just like waiting for a match to come back on my phone and see if I'm interested in who matches with me. I get this match. I look at her profile and I said, wow, she's pretty. She's my type. She had this beautiful brunette curly hair,

Starting point is 02:11:24 and she's like, she's my age, and she had a nice profile. And I sent her a message, and I was like, yeah, I think we should meet each other. And I told her right flat out on December 5, 2015, I laid it out. I said, listen. And now I'd been to a proper mental health clinician.

Starting point is 02:11:43 They said, listen, you are not antisocial. You don't have antisocial personality disorder. You have bipolar disorder. When you get manic, you do stupid shit that it needs to get under control. You need to get the mania out of your life. And so anyway, I laid it all out to this woman. Her name is Susan. and the best thing that ever happened in my life

Starting point is 02:12:05 was when my uncle was alive and I was between prison sentences I met him and he said you need you need a good woman this is going to settle you down and so I made this match with this person on the dating app and I laid it out I said listen

Starting point is 02:12:24 I am fresh out of prison I've never committed a violent crime in my life but I've taken money from bank to I told her everything I have bipolar disorder. I go through crazy phases of my life. I have robbed bank tellers. I have escaped prisons, this and that. And she was like, well, how long ago was?

Starting point is 02:12:41 I think she's like, how long ago was that? And I said, well, it was like 10 years ago at the time. Like 10 years, nine, 10 years ago. She's like, well, what are you doing now? And I'm like, well, I'm living with my parents. I don't, you know, I'm trying to find a job that I can get to. And she's like, I'll meet you. And I said, you know, I didn't even have a means to take a woman on a date at the time.

Starting point is 02:12:58 I didn't have a car. I didn't have a lot of money or anything. and I just said, you know, why don't we meet at the mall? And how about gummy bears and coffee? Is that a date that you would like? Because I'm like financially restricted in what I can do. And she's like, are you freaking kidding me? How did you know that gummy bears and coffee are like my favorite things in my life?

Starting point is 02:13:17 And so we went to Destiny Mall in Syracuse. And I met her in front of a coffee shop. She was looking at one of those signs that says the directions and everything. And I could just tell from the, from the back with the curly brunette hair, I was like, that's her right there. And I kind of liked what I was seeing coming up. And I was like, hey, I'm Kevin. And she's like, I'm Susan.

Starting point is 02:13:39 And so we sat down and had gummy bears and coffee. That was December 6th. December 20, and we were dating heavily. I mean, it was, she was the one. She was the one I wanted. And she'd been through some really rough stuff in her life that she'd gotten through. And she was doing good. And 17 days later, December 23rd,

Starting point is 02:14:01 My brother was coming to town. He was going to be staying at my parents' house, and I was still living with my parents. My brother and I had a little bit of a conflict from when we were kids, and it hadn't been totally ironed out yet. And it would have been a little too much to be in the same house together for the holidays.

Starting point is 02:14:16 And I couldn't get in touch with my parole officer, the Terminator, as I called him, that asshole. But I called him. He wouldn't answer the phone. I called his supervisor. He was on vacation or something. And I was like, listen, this is like a big problem for me to be in the house of my brother.

Starting point is 02:14:31 He's, you know, got animosity or whatever, and it hasn't been squashed yet. And so I get in touch with my therapist, and I said, do me favor and email this guy and tell him, you know, for mental health wellness, that I'll stay somewhere else for the holidays. And she emailed the parole officer. So I was like, okay, at least I've covered my bases. He's going to know where I am. And my name is McKenzie. And I started to go fund me for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child. the mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child.

Starting point is 02:15:06 So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really, really, being very clear about what we needed. We had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GofundMe today at gofundme.com. That's gofundme.com. Gofund me.com. This podcast is supported by Gofund me.

Starting point is 02:15:52 We're almost halfway through the year, and a lot of people are running on empty without fully realizing it. Grow therapy helps you find care that's covered by insurance before burnout becomes the baseline. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around. They connect you with thousands of independent licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends.

Starting point is 02:16:19 You can search by what matters like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and get started in as little as two days. And if something comes up, you can cancel up to 24-hour. hours in advance at no cost. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. Sessions average about $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growth therapy.com slash book now to get started. That's growthreaty.com.com

Starting point is 02:16:59 slash book now. Growtherapy.com slash book now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. A home that feels intentional starts with pieces that stand out, and that's what Serena and Lily does best. Their heirloom quality furniture is designed in-house and crafted by expert makers to work beautifully with what you already own. Customize with over 150 fabrics, finishes,

Starting point is 02:17:23 and even bespoke sizing with free design services every step of the way. connect with their experts and start designing at serena and lily.com discover endless possibilities at serena and lily.com it was only intending to be with susan's apartment for three or four days and i've been married to her for eight years that's awesome i uh it was just supposed to be for the holidays of 2015 and then when the holidays passed i i told her i i said uh why don't we uh talk about rent how much would you want for rent i don't i didn't even know how much She was paying for rent, but I had a job.

Starting point is 02:18:01 It was a shitty job I had at first. She's like, I don't know, just give me 300 bucks a month. I was like, deal. And so I became a tenant. And, you know, I ended up proposing to her a year later, the year after that, we were married. And it was funny because the Terminator, as I call him, the parole officer, he went ballistic when he found out I moved. Because I moved technically without permission, but I covered all my bases. I told everybody where I was going to be.

Starting point is 02:18:27 and Susan, my girlfriend at the time, calls me in tears, crying because the parole officer went off on her about me living there. And I'm like, what? Why is a parole officer yelling at somebody who's not even a parolee? What kind of piece of shit is this guy? And what I didn't realize at the time, but was by moving, I took myself out of his jurisdiction. He wasn't allowed to be my parole officer anymore because he covers a certain territory and I'd moved out of that territory. I didn't know that. This wasn't part of the plan. I was just moving.

Starting point is 02:18:56 And so I ended up with a different parole officer. And the former guy was livid because he wanted to be the guy to put me on my face and cuff me and bring him back to jail and brag that, you know, I got him. He didn't get that chance. So I ended up with another parole officer who was just fantastic. The guy used to be a correction officer. He had just a few years left to retire. And this guy was night and day compared to the former guy.

Starting point is 02:19:18 He would show up at the house. Of course, he'd show up with his Bulletproof Fest on everything. But he would have a Syracuse ornament hoodie over it. And you could tell he had his gun, but the hoodie was covering it. wasn't there to make a scene like the other guy was. And he caught me out one night. I didn't, I wasn't home for curfew one time. I was out drinking with a friend shooting darts at his house. And I didn't even have a car yet. So I walked back to the apartment. His business card was in the door. I saw, fuck. I've been busted. I was out drinking, which I'm not supposed to do. I was out after

Starting point is 02:19:45 curfew, which I'm not supposed to do. His business card was there at a door, call me as soon as you get home. I was so nervous. I'm like, I'm going back to jail. Are you serious for drinking some beers and being out late? I was so nervous because it just it escalates. When somebody tries to put me in custody, I'm going to get out and it's going to snowball. And he comes at a house. I called him. He's like, I'm going to come see you, make sure you're there.

Starting point is 02:20:09 I'm so nervous. I'm like, I'm going back to jail, literally for breaking curfew. This is absolutely ridiculous. But he shows up and he's like, he opened a door from me. He's like, why are you so nervous? I said, he's like, calm down. You're not going to jail. That's ridiculous.

Starting point is 02:20:23 I'm not putting you in jail for a curfew. He says, do me a favor. Put your hand out. I put my hand out. He slapped my wrist. He said, don't do it again. He said, next time you're going to break your curfew, you let me know ahead of time. And we can, we can, and I was such a sense of relief.

Starting point is 02:20:37 I'm like, I have a parole officer who is actually reasonable. That's so important. And it was. And he was adamant. He's like, listen, I want you sticking with counseling and everything. And I want you to get things under control. He was just a fantastic guy. He knows who he is.

Starting point is 02:20:53 if he sees this. What's your life look like now? Oh, man. It's freaking phenomenal. I've been out of prison. Next month, it'll be 10 years. I got the mental health stuff under control, my own way. I went, I got back into gambling.

Starting point is 02:21:10 I got back into gambling heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy. Got myself into a lot of debt. I've taken a lot of money out of casinos. I put a lot of money in. I ended up banning myself. There's a thing called self-exclusion. I tried gamblers anonymous. It wasn't for me.

Starting point is 02:21:24 I showed up to a couple meetings. It was like four old ladies talking about their bingo scratchers and all this stuff. And I'm like, this is not. I've done 20 years in prison, robbed bank tellers, gamble with thousands of dollars. This is not for me. And I found out about self-exclusion. You actually sign a paper with the casino that gives them the legal authority to trespass you and arrest you if you show up at the casino again.

Starting point is 02:21:46 And I was like, that's a good idea. I need to get it's under control. And I banned myself from that included because that one casino, owned two other casinos, that ended my ability to go to the three local casinos. And of course, I pushed my luck. I went to one of the annexing casinos that didn't know me very well. And I don't think that one, I was always nervous about the facial recognition. I had a friend who had a gambling problem who, he's the one who told me about the self-exclusion.

Starting point is 02:22:11 He said, dude, just go on with a baseball hat and sunglasses. They're not even going to know who you are. And I did. And I kept playing blackjack. And there was this one female security guard that I was always, she was a real attractive woman. and I was hi-bye, see you later when I go. And she knew my name. She knew I wasn't supposed to be there.

Starting point is 02:22:27 And I'd always make sure she wasn't the one at the door when I would go into this little casino. And it turns out I went in, I was playing Blackjack and they came up to me. They're like, hey, Fitzpatrick. And I was up a good amount of money. I think I went in with like 200 bucks. I was up to like 700.

Starting point is 02:22:39 And they're like, you know you're not supposed to be here. They're like, we can take those chicks. Because you actually sign permission from them to confiscate any chips that you have in a table. And they donate those to gamblers, gambling addiction services. So they were like, we can take your chips. We're going to walk you to the cage.

Starting point is 02:22:54 We're going to let you cash out. But you got to leave and don't come back. We'll arrest you next time. It's all right, fine. So I'd been walked out of there. And I ended up going back to the main casino sometime later. I'm like, oh, I'm just going to push the envelope a little bit. I went in with $300, played this game called Pai Gau poker.

Starting point is 02:23:11 I was three hands in and I was surrounded by five or six security guards. They're like, Mr. Fitzpatrick. And I was like, shit, I looked up. I'm surrounded. I was like, oh, Jesus, here we go. And they're like, we're taking the chips, we're taking this, we're taking that. I was like, you're not taking the chips. I said, I'll walk out the door, but you're not taking the chips.

Starting point is 02:23:28 They're like, well, you're not cashing them out. That's why I'll take them with me. They're like, you're not allowed to take them with you. I said, watch me. You're not taking my chips. I know you're not allowed to put your hands on me. And don't do that if you get that idea. But I put the chips in my pocket.

Starting point is 02:23:41 I walked out. I put them on Craigslist. I had, I think it was an $11, $25 turning stone casino. $25 chips that was worth $275. I put him on Craigslist for $250. And this guy gets in touch and he says, he says, are you serious? And I had a picture of them and everything on the Craigslist.

Starting point is 02:24:00 And he says, why are you selling casino chips? I said, listen, I had a small emergency. I had to leave the casino. And I don't feel like driving back there just to cash my chips in. And I couldn't tell him like, listen, I'm banned from there. I can't because then that would lower my negotiating. He'd probably be like, well, I'll just give you $50 if you're not allowed to do them yourself. So he owned a Greek restaurant in downtown Syracuse.

Starting point is 02:24:19 He's like, bring him down to my restaurant. I'll give you $250 for him. I brought him down there, and he's like, I'll give you $2.40. I'll say, fuck, just give me, give me money. He gives me $240 for $275 worth of chips. And now I couldn't go back to that casino ever again. But it just snowballed over the years. And then I was, there's other casinos that are quite a drive away.

Starting point is 02:24:38 And I was going there. And then I was just like, no, I'm going to ban myself from that one too. And it just became a snowball that I had to go farther and farther and farther to gamble. And every now and then I'm out in New England, Connecticut, Massachusetts and all that. Not very often. maybe every few months, but I would stop in the casinos out here. And then ended up banning myself from all the ones in Pennsylvania. I'm banned from every single one in New York State, state and private-owned casinos.

Starting point is 02:25:02 Banned myself at one casino in Pennsylvania, which ended up enveloping the entire state. Connecticut got wrapped up. So there was Massachusetts. I called one time when I was going to be in Massachusetts. And I didn't know if I was banned from that one or not because when you sign yourself out of a casino, they might own other casinos that makes you banned from those as well. So I called MGM Springfield and I said, my name's Kevin Fitzpatrick. Am I allowed to play? And they transferred me to security.

Starting point is 02:25:32 And they said, you're on a limited list. And I said, what does that mean? I said, am I allowed to gamble? And they said, yes, but you can't take out. And we're not doing any cash advances. We're not doing this. We're not doing that. And I said, but I can still gamble.

Starting point is 02:25:45 They said, yeah, you come in with cash. and that's it. We know nothing else and you can play and I'm like but and you can't play slots because we're not paying jackpots. You can play table games. So that became my place and I took a significant amount. I mean it January, February of this year I took I had four trips to Niagara Falls. I was up over $30,000 off of an initial investment of about 2000. I just had four big wins right in a row. I ended up giving it almost all of it back because that's just how it goes. It's a sick sick thing. It's physically um, when you're addicted to gambling like that, it's not, it's not, it's, you, you just physically can't stop and you just keep going until the money's gone. I left four times in a row, successfully. I left up thousands each time. And I had taken out loans. I had paid, I took out like one $10,000 loan from the bank. They had it funded to my account, because my credit score was really good. And I took a $10,000 loan out. I paid it back four days later. I profited off that $10,000, made thousands off that, gave them back their $10,011.

Starting point is 02:26:48 That was the interest over four days. And my credit score went through the roof because I just paid off a $10,000 loan in four days. And now I had the profit of that. And it just got bigger and bigger. And I ended up, I went to Niagara Falls again. And I was like, you know what? Ban me from this one. I don't want to be here.

Starting point is 02:27:03 And they're like, okay, fine. You're banned. And so now I can't go to that one ever again. This one in mass, that became just a once in a while thing. I took, I had a couple big wins out there. I took $1,500. I turned it into $16,000, and I left with $16,000. I went back with like, I don't know.

Starting point is 02:27:24 I'm not trying to, I don't want to get into the numbers or anything, but it's just a never-ending. You can't win. When you have a mental addiction to gambling, even if you win, it's a loan. Because you're going to go back, you're going to give it back, and you're going to be taking out loans on top of that, and you're cashing out your ATM card and everything. But now I banned myself from Massachusetts.

Starting point is 02:27:41 Literally, I just, you know, for the sake of redemption, This was Saturday. I went to MGM Springfield on my way out here. And I played. I gambled my last time. And I said, you know what? This is it. I'm going to go all out.

Starting point is 02:27:53 And I lost. But I signed myself out. So now I'm banned from the whole state of Massachusetts. I can't go back. So I'm surrounded by states where I'm not allowed in any casinos, which is significant because I can't be there. They have facial recognition. They know when you come in. They're going to arrest you.

Starting point is 02:28:08 So that's a big thing for getting a grasp on my life. And thankfully, I never went down the road. doing anything illegal for money. I make good money. Now I can I can I can I can afford to lose money. I don't want to say that, but I don't have to commit crimes to get money. But um, you know, I'm doing good. I got the starting next year. I'm, uh, I don't want to say who I work for, but I, I have a very, very good job. I, um, I'm on track next year to easily start making six figures and, uh, it's just a, a significant thing for me. I've met a lot of good people and, uh, it's a good trade to be in. I've learned a lot. And, uh, I'm just really happy with where I'm at.

Starting point is 02:28:44 And one big, I got to give a big shout out to Taylor Kavanaugh. I saw his interview with you about, about a month ago. And this is probably going to get emotional for me to tell this. But I'd vaguely heard his name before as a Navy SEAL. I'd never listened to anything online, but I took interest when I saw that you did, because I've been following you for, I don't know, three or four years since you started doing this. And when you interviewed him, I listened to it. And his message of redemption from,

Starting point is 02:29:14 from literally being on the brink of suicide. And that thought has chronically come into my head. You get into this crazy gambling and you crash financially. Your mind is just messed up from the gambling. Your dopamine crashes. Your adrenaline's gone. It's just a mental game that is hard to overcome. And you literally feel suicidal for days sometimes

Starting point is 02:29:37 after you lose money when you have a big problem. And hearing his story about redeeming himself from the point of his life, I was like, let me get in touch with this guy. And I found his website. I got in touch with him. And the next morning, I had a text from him. And he's like, Kev, you're ready to change your life?

Starting point is 02:29:54 And I was like, wow. And I'm sitting on a job site putting a solar farm together and getting texts from Taylor Kavanaugh. I was like, this is. And I texted him right back. I was like, is this some AI bullshit. And he's like, and he sent a voice recording. And he's got a very distinctive voice. He's like, Kev, this ain't no AI bullshit.

Starting point is 02:30:13 Get with the program. you know, whatever he said, and you know how he talks. So I was like, I was like, all right, Taylor, let's see what we got. And, you know, because I told him, I said, listen, I have this gambling problem. I got to get under control. I have an alcohol problem that I've developed. I'm out of shape. In my mid-30s, I was in really, really phenomenal shape.

Starting point is 02:30:30 When I got out of prison, I ran two marathons. I came in the top 10% of my age group of a mountain goat run, ended up ripping up my feet. My tendons of my feet got destroyed about eight years ago, and I couldn't run anymore. and losing the ability to be a distance runner really devastated me physically. And it was the new addiction. Because I have the addictive personality. And when I latch onto something, I get addicted to it.

Starting point is 02:30:50 And running became my thing for a long time. I would literally just go on a run. I would tell Susan, my now wife, at least I'm going for a run. And she would know she's not going to see me for three or four hours. And I would put in 16, 17 miles, whatever it was. And when that got taken from me, I just started drinking heavy. I put on 50 pounds. I'm down 20 of that now.

Starting point is 02:31:11 But, so anyway, I get in touch with Taylor, and he's like, he's like, all right, if you're going to get with my program, you got to do it. Now, it was, for me, it's kind of pricey. But I was like, you know what, I'm going to do it. And I told him, I need a little bit of a payment plan. I can't pay everything up front. And he was cool about it. He's like, listen, I respect your clear communication. Let's get with the program.

Starting point is 02:31:29 Let's do it. He's putting the pressure on. He wants the business. He wants clients. And that day, that was Friday, three weeks and two days ago, he was officially high. And I just quit drinking cold turkey. Haven't had a sip since. Obviously, I just stopped the gambling I could do in Massachusetts.

Starting point is 02:31:51 But I just put me on a crazy diet program, exercise program. And he told me, and I physically could not run. The last time I tried to run was last year in a charity softball tournament, literally running to first base. I was out of work for three weeks. That's how bad my feet had gotten with the issues I had. And I knew I could never run again. and he tells me in his workout program that he put together for me he's got the calisthenics workouts

Starting point is 02:32:15 because he knows that's my that's where I really excel when I get in shape and he's like on day three I want you to do a two mile jog slash brisk walk do whatever you can I told my wife I'm like oh man I don't I'm either going to go for a two mile jog and be fine or I'm going to be out of work for weeks and be collecting disability again because my foot is so messed up and uh as I sure I went to my favorite running spot and Green Lakes in Syracuse, and I ran a 5K. It was slow. It took me 40 minutes, which is double the time I used to do it in. But I finished it.

Starting point is 02:32:46 But the truth was going to be the next day, how my feet were going to be. My feet were perfectly fine. I couldn't believe it. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. I literally had to have a Navy SEAL, put a boot in my ass to go for a run. And now, I mean, I'm setting new personal records every day. And but, you know, it's like this past Friday, I was just like, I think it was Friday. the lakes I run at

Starting point is 02:33:09 they're an exact 5K if you do a figure 8 of the two lakes and I intended to do a 10K I was going to do two loops and I still had gas in the tank so I ran a 15K I said fuck it is 9.3 miles and I didn't run distance this is only two weeks into run and after not being able to run for eight years

Starting point is 02:33:24 and it was too much too soon but you know I did it and now I got to challenge myself every time every time every time and you know I'm just ecstatic that I'm dropping fat like crazy on the diet he's got me on the strength is coming back I'm starting to bulk back up which is funny because I'm going in the wrong direction I want to trim down and I'm starting to

Starting point is 02:33:44 bulk up and he's he's like dude calm down it's just like water weight from the creatine and everything it'll it'll even itself out but um hearing his story really it put a fire under me and I'm like it's time for me to redeem myself because I've dealt with that with mental health counselors the last person to prescribe mental health medication to me he he said listen you're you're 50 years old now. You are, you are not in midlife. You are in three-quarter life. Anybody who thinks 50 years old is midlife is wrong, you don't have half a life left. And you got to get this under control now and be happy the rest of your life, if possible. And, you know, he threw some different medications at me, and I have side effects to him. And I just didn't want to deal with

Starting point is 02:34:27 it anymore. And about three months ago, I said, you know what, I don't want to ban these medications anymore. I want to get this under control myself. And I quit the, I, I, I weaned myself off against a lot of advice to like, listen, the medication you're on is extremely difficult to come off of. You're going to have side effects like crazy. And I did. It was a rough, because you're dealing with the chemicals in your brain. And it's a rough shift to shift those. And I just quit the medications.

Starting point is 02:34:54 I dropped like 15 pounds just from not being on the medications. I started, you know, working out with Taylor's program and the fat's coming off like crazy. My clothes don't even fit anymore. And it's only been like three weeks. So, and I was intending initially. to do a 90-day program with them and get back in shape. And now I found a way to one of my benefits from my job is an HRA card to cover medical expenses.

Starting point is 02:35:17 And I had my doctor, I went into my doctor a week or so ago. And the nurse had come in. And this was just a follow-up to a little thing I had going on a few months ago. And she noticed the weight loss. And she was immediately ready to order lab work because she was concerned that there was something going on that was making me lose weight. I said, Doc, this is intentional. I'm working out and I'm eating right.

Starting point is 02:35:39 And she's like, tell me all about it. She's like, I want to know what's going on. I said, listen, I quit drinking cold turkey. I'm on a really strict diet. I've hired a trainer. And what I need from you is a letter of medical necessity for this program. And I was ready to bullet point every reason. So now my HRA card has to reimburse my expenses that I'm paying this guy.

Starting point is 02:35:58 And I didn't even get like five words in. She's like, where do I send the letter? This is what you need. That's awesome. And so now. I let Taylor know that. I'm like, listen to money I paid you. It's going to be reimbursed to me.

Starting point is 02:36:09 He's like, dude, pay me for a year. You know, I was like, all right, we're going to stick with it. If it's not, you know, it's, it's, it's just great. I'm able to, I'm able to interact with him a little bit. And he's, you know, we do zooms every now and then. And it's, it's, it's just great to have somebody of his caliber in life be the fire under me to get myself back in order. And that's huge.

Starting point is 02:36:32 And I haven't strayed from his program one bit. I mean, Saturday I didn't log my food or anything. We had tacos and all that dump shit because I was in Queens. You got a cheat here. Yeah, Saturday was a cheat day, Taylor. We had some tacos that we shouldn't have had. That's good, whatever. It's just amazing to, you know, I'm at a point in my life now.

Starting point is 02:36:50 It's taken a long time to get where I'm at. But now it's like I want to be a story of redemption to some people that, like, and I know my story is going to hit with somebody somewhere, that you just got to get your life under. control. Whatever, whatever led you to prison, you got to get to the root cause. I mean, there are obviously, there's some guys in prison that are just animals. No, I don't even want to use that word. They're people, but they do really bad things. And there are some people in there that are just irredeemable. But there's a lot of people in there behind addictions. And, you know,

Starting point is 02:37:22 if you don't get the addictions under control that are causing you to commit crimes, whether it be heroin or crack or gambling or whatever you're addicted to, you got to get to the root of that. You got to, you know, you got to get, you got to get, nip that addiction in the bud that's making you commit crimes. And then look at that. You don't, you don't commit crimes anymore because you don't have, you're not feeding the addictions. Absolutely. So, uh, well, Kevin, I appreciate you coming on the show today, man. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:37:44 Yeah, you did amazing. And I don't know. I feel like I rambled a lot. I had all these notes here, but. No, you can never come to an interview with notes because then it overwhelms you. Yeah. But you did really well for your first time ever sharing your story. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:37:58 And I appreciate you supporting the show. Sure. I mean, you've been doing great, but I've been following you for years. And I got to give you a shout-out because you're the one who had T-Cav on your show that I happen to chime into. And I was like, you know what, that's literally, I told my wife the other day, I said, the best thing I ever did in 2015 was get on that dating app and meet you. The best thing I've done this year is listen to that Ian Bick episode with Taylor Kavanaugh, who put a fire under my ass to get back in shape and get myself under control. And, you know, I feel great about it. It's, it's, to me, it's just, it's, it's literally, I'm 50 years old, but it's the start of life. It's, you know, we've got things under control.

Starting point is 02:38:35 We don't have to rely on medications. We don't have to rely on this. It's diet and exercise. It's straightened my life out. And, you know, that's where I'm going from here. You know, I don't want. I'm happy to be of assistance. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:38:47 Where do I send the bill?

Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a Bank Robber — Then I Escaped Prison | Kevin FitzPatrick

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.