Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a Combat Veteran — Then Got Sent to Federal Prison

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

Jeremy Harrell is a United States Army combat veteran who served in Operation Iraqi Freedom suffered mental health and brain injuries from combat received a 70% plus Individual Unemployability disability rating from the VA and spent years battling PTSD depression and sleeplessness. In 2018 he started a private Facebook page to help fellow veterans. In 2019 he incorporated Veterans Club a faith based nonprofit dedicated to helping veterans overcome PTSD traumatic brain injuries substance abuse and homelessness. He was an unpaid volunteer. He received no salary. In 2024 the Biden DOJ convicted him of theft of government funds for receiving VA disability benefits while serving as an unpaid volunteer CEO. In December 2024 he was sentenced to 6 months in federal prison and 6 months of home confinement. He surrendered to federal prison in Ashland Kentucky on January 28 2025. In this episode of Locked In with Ian Bick, Jeremy tells the complete story — from serving in Operation Iraqi Freedom to the combat injuries that ended his military career to building Veterans Club from a Facebook page into a nationally recognized nonprofit to the Biden DOJ investigation that he believes was politically motivated to what federal prison was really like for a combat veteran chaplain who was there for volunteering. _____________________________________________ #prison #veteran #truecrimestories _____________________________________________ Connect with Jeremy Harrell: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremy_w_harrell_official/ X: https://x.com/JeremyWHarrell Website: https://veteransclubinc.org/ _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Combat Veteran Who Built a Nonprofit — Then Got Sent to Federal Prison — Jeremy's Full Story 00:36 His Difficult Childhood and the Family Dynamics That Shaped Everything 03:40 His Relationship With His Father and the Family Cycles That Defined His Early Years 07:12 His Mother's Struggles and the Family Hardship That Followed 08:19 His Early Passions and What Drove Him Toward a Life of Service 10:54 Choosing a Positive Path Despite Everything Working Against Him 13:54 Joining the Military in 1999 and What That Decision Really Meant 15:54 Boot Camp — the Expectations and the Reality That Followed 18:16 Graduating Boot Camp and the Transition to Advanced Training 23:21 The Sense of Purpose He Found After Boot Camp 25:01 His Deployment After 9/11 and What Heading to Iraq Really Looked Like 27:37 Life and Work Inside Iraq Detention Centers and What That World Required 29:56 The Prisoners the Conditions and the Lessons He Learned From Iraq 33:41 The Key Lessons From Combat and the Life Long Bonds That Followed 37:23 Returning Home — the Reentry Struggles and the PTSD Nobody Prepared Him For 43:31 Coping Relationships and What Seeking Help After Combat Really Looked Like 49:01 Post Military Life — UPS Banking and the Career Struggles That Followed 53:35 Medical Retirement and the Birth of His Veteran Nonprofit 55:02 Building a Successful Veteran Nonprofit and What That Mission Really Required 56:57 The Federal Indictment — the Accusations and the Confusion That Followed 01:00:01 The Legal Fight and the Federal Trial Challenges That Defined His Case 01:07:13 The Trial the Sentencing and the Aftermath That Changed Everything 01:17:34 Entering Federal Prison and What Those First Days Really Required 01:23:41 Life in Prison — His Adjustment and How He Continued Serving Others Inside 01:36:12 The Halfway House and the Complex Prison Release Process 01:44:51 His Post Prison Life and the Pursuit of Clemency That Continues 01:52:16 Continuing the Fight — His Legal Battles and Advocacy Work 02:10:15 The Lessons He Learned the Silver Linings He Found and His Hope for the Future 02:14:49 His Impact on Veterans and the Final Reflections He Wants Everyone to Hear _____________________________________________ To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My guest today is a United States Army Combat veteran who served in Operation Iraqi Freedom, suffered brain injuries and PTSD from combat, built a nonprofit to help other veterans, was named Kentucky Veteran of the Year, and was lauded by Senator Rand Paul, and congratulated by President Trump. Then, the Biden Department of Justice convicted him of theft of government funds for volunteering. He was sentenced to federal prison for helping veterans. His name is Jeremy Harold. and this is his story.

So I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky. I lived kind of in the not so good part of Louisville wasn't by choice. You know, we didn't have a lot of stuff growing up. Pretty kind of rough childhood, honestly. A lot of domestic violence and a lot of instability and poverty and neglect, things like that. But I actually grew up, it wasn't maybe half a mile from, the famous Churchill Downs, right, the racetrack where the Kentucky Derby is. And I just remember, like, that was, I just thought I was cool because I lived next to Churchill Downs.

And I was like, I'll never, I'll never get in there. But it's pretty cool to live next to it. And so, yeah, man, I grew up there and played sports. And, you know, that's pretty much it. Just try to survive at a very young age. Just try to figure out, you know, my mom is bipolar, very manic at times. So it's kind of I love you, hate you kind of situation. Hard to manage, especially when you're a child.

And my dad, he was kind of in or out, you know, just enough to try to try to buy love for a minute, right? And then all of a sudden he's like, well, well, son, I got to go again, right? And so he was kind of, there was no consistency there. I was practically raised by my grandfather and my grandmother. And unfortunately, my grandfather passed away when I was in Iraq and that destroyed me. He was like, he was like my hero. guy had a set his old country boy had like a seventh grade education but one of the smartest man i've ever had the privilege of knowing and to this day he he's my hero i've met some cool people

right but he's he's definitely my hero and unfortunately i wasn't able to come home um to go to his funeral unfortunately they said you know we're fighting a war here they could have had a little bit better delivery than that right but the truth is the truth and and so uh yeah so i think about him all the time man, especially when when tough things happen. He always had the best advice. Usually not repeatable, but the best advice. And so, yeah, that's kind of how it went. Where was your dad in all of this?

So my dad, you know, he would bounce around, man. He'd live in South Carolina for a little bit. He'd go to Florida. He'd lived in Maryland for a little bit and Arizona. And what's so crazy about him is the guy could have been a multi-millionaire. Like he could have done anything. I mean, he just knew how to do. do everything. But he didn't like authority. And he had the same kind of, to his credit,

and he's passed away now, but to his credit, he had the same kind of upbringing I did. So I don't hold any resentment towards him, right, because you only know what you know. And that was actually one of the last things he said before he passed away in the hospital bed was you broke the cycle, right? And he's like, I didn't know how to be the dad that you needed. And so that was, unfortunately, it was at the very end of his life, but it was still cool to get that out there. But he would just bounce around and he would work and make good money. And then when he had had some money, he would quit working until they didn't have money. Right?

He's kind of one of those guys. Almost like a gypsy in a sense, man, really. And he tried to pull us with him, you know, a few times. I've lived in a bunch of different places. And then eventually, you know, my mom's like, you know, can't do it. And of course, you know, he would take my mom to these other states. You know, we lived in South Carolina, Maryland, and they wouldn't get along. And there'd be some abuse there, some domestic violence, and she's trapped all by herself.

And my grandma has to come and rescue her and things. So we just stayed in Louisville. And I just seen him when I could, you know. And then when I got a little older, in my teenage years, he wanted to be more active. And I think it's because it's easier, right? There's no, there's no, I can take care of myself at that point. But I would go and visit him. And it just really felt, really felt more like a friend than like a dad, you know.

And then, of course, when I started, you know, when I went into the military and got out of the military and started, you know, helping veterans with my nonprofit, we blew up really quick. And I just remember him, I'm taking a lot of credit for that, right? And so I think, I think the only real issue we had where I couldn't, I didn't have, like, the control to just let it go was when, you know, when he was telling his buddies, you know, he's just like his dad, right? Or he would say, you know, I'm proud of how a race. raised him. And I'm like, so there was a time where we were at a, you know, how we hung out, he wanted to get a drink at the bar, right? So we, I'd go to his little dive bars and we're sitting there and he's telling his buddies and he's bragging about all the things that I've done and stuff. And then he, and then I just said, I said, you know, you know, dad, you really can't

take credit for that, man. I just got to be honest with you. I said, one thing you did do, though, is you taught me what not to do. I thought that was fair. He didn't like that at all, right? Kind of embarrassed him a little bit in front of it. But I just had to put that out there, right? Like, hey, it's all good. I'm not mad at you. You know, but you can't pretend like you made me who I am.

I had to do that myself. And when you have to do it yourself and you go through that process, of course, the Army helped, you know, some good leaders in the Army helped, you know, kind of make me a man, so to speak. It's hard to sit there and listen to somebody who had the opportunity, who, you know, who could have actually done it and done it well. had he been focused on that. But outside of that, man, I think we settled that, unfortunately, on his deathbed.

It was right around COVID. It was in 2020, September. And he was just 60 years old. He had liver cancer and cirrhosis from drugs and alcohol. And, yeah, so we, that was our last conversation. The only time I ever seen him shed a tear was, you know, you broke the cycle. You're not like me. you know and I'm proud of you I think it might have been other than when he's telling his buddies what he's telling I don't I don't know that he's ever like looked me in the eye and and said that or there wasn't a whole lot of I love you's from him so I think it's just sad that at the end of people's lives you know they realize what's important but at that point there's no going back but I like to think that we we made amends and I told him you know I forgive you I said those words like I forgive you I don't want you to go on to the next life

with any kind of unforgiveness. Like there's been a lot of positive things that come out of this. You made me resilient. You've given me drive and motivation. And even if it was not the way that you intended to do it, you did it. And so anyway, it was a good ending to a sad story, really. Did your mom ever have a stable job? No.

She was always on disability. I won't say always, but I think when I was really young, she worked at a daycare. And then she got on disability. because she was having so many problems. So no, she didn't really, which obviously there's not a lot. You can't really live off disability. And so that made everything challenging. So we would live with my grandparents off and on or usually in a not so good place, right?

But, you know, she did the best she could. You know, she tried. You know, I'm coming to this place in my life where I don't, I try to forgive everybody, not how, you know, resentment. People do what they know to do at the time, you know. And in fact, she still struggles frequently. I know because I get weird calls, you know, from her. And, of course, I still talk to her.

And she says relationship with my kids and things. But I have to keep her at a distance, you know, which is unfortunate. But I have to get, I got to do what I got to do to protect my own mental health, you know. But, yeah, she, I feel like she at least done what she had to do. What were you passionate about as a kid? Aside from sports, what were you thinking, you know, like career-wise? and what drove you? Man, I was kind of a strange kid, man.

You know, I really wanted to be a paranormal psychologist. Like at a very young age, I would read these books. I really was interested in, like, paranormal, you know, and just what happens after and that kind of thing. And I realized that that wasn't a real job. And then I just started wanting to do something. I just wanted to do something service-related. And I really had a lot of intention on being an advocate for the underdog.

I hated bullies, right? Like, I mean, I was bullied. Most people are at some point in their life. And I just was never that way. And something interesting, despite like the troubled childhood, it never made me a mean kid. Like, it never made me angry at the world. It did the opposite, right? It made me want to help people.

So, you know, that's why I wanted to join the military. One of the two reasons. One was that, right, to do something bigger than myself, but also to give back. But then also it was kind of my way out of the situation I was in because, you know, I had to have money. And my grades, I feel like I'm a smart kid, you know, or I was a smart kid, but I couldn't focus in school because of all the external stuff. And so I didn't have good grades for college. And so that's when I joined the military. But I remember waiting to go to boot camp or was this big snowstorm.

Just kind of give you an idea for the people listening. I would go to these senior living homes and I would take grocery store orders and I would go to the store and fulfill these grocery store orders for these folks who couldn't get out. And the reason why that stays in my head is because it really just explains everything I've done after. Right. So I think you could go one or two ways in that position. I could have been mad, anger. I could have been in a gang. I could have done all that stuff.

But for whatever reason, I feel like God was looking out for me and not letting that change my heart and who I was. And so that's why I service become number one. I just love helping people, man. Like I say it, I say it sometimes when I do TV interviews. I say, you know, people love to go to the beach. Some love to go to the mountains. I like to help people. Like, it's fun for me.

So that's just kind of, but I do think a lot of that attributes to seeing suffering. Obviously, me suffering, but watching my family suffer, watching my mom suffer, not being able to do anything about that. You know, I'm like, how can I put myself in a position to be able to do something about this? And so that's what I did. Why do you think some people journey down that path of, you know, gangs or addiction or just crime in general coming from the same environment as you and some don't, some take the path you did? Yeah.

You know, I think it's, I think as far as like gangs, it's that, it's generally, I don't say it's just guys, but boys who don't have anybody paying attention to them, who don't feel that, don't have that community, don't have that love. at home. They're just looking for someone to care about them. And it gets so bad to the point where it doesn't matter what you have to do to earn it. You just want it so bad. You know, it's very sadistic, really. It's really utilizing someone's most vulnerable moment to get them to do your bidding, you know? And that's why I didn't want to do it. Now, I hung out with guys who wanted to do it, but I didn't do it. It's not because I'm better. It's just because I just had my mind settle on other things. And as far as addiction goes, I think that's clearly like self-medication.

It's trying to escape from reality. And it's easier to do that than a fixture reality because obviously sometimes we can't fix it. You know, when you think about the criminal justice system, that's one of them. Once they have you, they have you. And, you know, out of everything that I've been through, that part of my life has made me the most vulnerable only because there's nothing I can do for myself really to fix it. It's not like common sense approaches work. It's not practical.

You know, you can't necessarily, you shouldn't necessarily Google how to do law, right? And so it really puts you in a position of, man, I just really got to hang here. And I think that translates back to the kids in my neighborhood who, you know, they felt like, well, at least this guy over here, showing me love. You know, Lucy's giving me $20 here and there, right? right to go to the store and get something I want. And all I have to do is go check these cars and make sure they're unlocked and get the things out of the glove compartment, whatever it is they're doing.

But just, I mean, I was tempted to do that. Don't get me wrong, you know, like to have 20 bucks when I was a kid was, you might as well have been 500, you know. But I just knew that had that not worked out and that I got caught doing that, you know, it would be worse. It would mean more than that $20 ever would, right? And so, so yeah, man, so I think that's what happens. I think these guys are looking for somebody to love them.

And then if that doesn't work, I think the next thing is to, how do I get to where I don't care about love? How do I get to where I don't care about what my dad did? Or I don't care about what my mom did. Or in a form of sexual abuse and things, how not cared that my uncle did this or my aunt did that, well, you just feed yourself these drugs. And the problem is you come out of it and you got to do it again. because reality is still going to hit you in the face, right? So it's a never... If you wear prescription glasses, you know the struggle.

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So what was the state of the world at that point? Bill Clinton was president. There wasn't a whole lot going on, which really changed when George Bush become president. But I went in to the recruiting station with a buddy, and I'm only meant to get a pamphlet, you know, and they're pretty good at that, man. You know, they get trained to do that. And I'm sitting down there with him. He's going to go do some cool stuff.

And I'm like, well, real, I don't really have a plan, you know, like right now I'm working at this factory. Nothing wrong with that. But I was like, you know, I'd like to go see what it looks like outside. Because here's the deal, like, being a poor kid in Louisville, I lived in South Louisville. Now to go like what was interesting about that is to go on the other side of town was a trip Like we were so like embedded into a certain part of town like there were parts of Louisville that I had never seen until I become an adult and Louisville's not huge you know It's the 16th largest city in the country. It's not real big

But yet I hadn't been on the other side of town because we didn't have the resources to do that and there was nothing over there for us And so when I'm sitting there listening to him going to do this and going to do that I thought maybe I'll think about doing something like that, you know. And then before I ever left, him and I both were joined on this buddy system. And so I just remember going home and telling my mom, like, hey, in a couple months, I'm leaving. I'm going to boot camp. And she freaked out, man. And she's like, what do you mean?

Like, you didn't even talk to me about this. And I said, well, there's nothing to talk about it. Like, I made a decision. And I'm going to get out of here. And hopefully I can make a better life for myself and maybe I can help you later. And so that's what happened. That's kind of how it went, man. was there was no like deep thought. I didn't ask a bunch of people. My dad actually had been in the

military, but he AWOLed. Yeah. So he couldn't tell me much about it either other than, you know, they look for you and you don't show up, you know. So yeah, so I was ready, I was ready to go, man. I was looking forward to it. I was training for it, you know, running because I'm not a big runner. I don't like to run. I always say I'm built a fight, not run. So I was getting prepared for it. Something to look forward to, something positive, you know, like that's pretty cool. honorable, right? I wanted to, I wanted my name attached to something honorable for once. Does his track record get passed down to you at all? Like, does anyone, when they run it in the system or anything? No. No, my dad was, I mean, my dad died with an active warrant that he'd had

for this guy, like five years. He had this active warrant and never got busted. I mean, he always made sure, like, his turn signals were working. It might not even have been a great vehicle, but everything was working, right? And he drove speed, I mean, he was, he was, he's the best I've ever seen, you know. And so, but no, I've never, I've never been, you know, I don't know, I think that's good. I've never been confused with him, you know, if anything, people have always been, man, I'm surprised what you've done, what you've accomplished coming from the place where you come from.

Tell us about boot camp. Yeah, boot camp was interesting, man. I loved it for the most part, you know, once the initial shock wore off. because here's the deal. There's three meals a day here in a comfortable place to sleep. And nobody's going to be killing or trying to hurt and kill anybody in that aspect. And so all I have to do is follow these rules. And yeah, they're yelling and screaming, but whatever, I live through that.

You know what I mean? That's been my whole life. So for me, it was nice to know that, hey, at least for 10 weeks, I'm going to have three meals a day. I'm going to have clothes. I'm going to have a clean place to take a story. shower and sleep. And, but, but then as we started doing, you know, the military tactics and things, I was like, man, this is, I love this. So I loved it. Now, there were other guys who, who come from different parts, different backgrounds who were ready to go home, who was like,

what hell did I just do? And generally, they, they were folks who had a lot better than, than I did. And others, you know, who just never really faced any kind of significant stress. But the stress for me was, I was like, call me what you want. I've been caught everything. You know what I mean? And so I did really well at it. And was a platoon guide in boot camp, which is kind of you kind of lead the platoon. And yeah, I enjoyed it.

What happens when you graduate boot camp? So when you graduate boot camp, you know, it's all this kind of popping circumstance, right? You get your dress greens out. And you get ready for your family. family to come visit, then you walk across a parade field. But before that, there's one last, there's one last, like, field exercise you have to do. And it's a long march back to where they kind of do a ceremony. This is a couple days before graduation. And I want to say it's a 12-mile march. Now, we've already been out in the field for several days. I didn't care too much for that,

to be honest. And so we're walking and you're getting all these blisters on your feet, right? And so I remember, I'll never forget this. I had a drill sergeant who was walking beside me and he was messing with me the whole time. Man, it's like they have this radar, you know, and he's like, you're slowing down. Why are you slowing down? And I'm like, I have blisters. He says, so what? So what? You keep walking, right? And we got to this point and then I was like, I don't know that I can walk anymore. Not because I don't want to, but I just don't know. I'm worried about what's going on in my boot, right? The problem was, is they tell you what size boots you wear.

So it was a size and a half smaller than what I've grown up wearing. I don't know why that happens, but they did. So I had like a nine and a half. I wear 11 and a half, right? So no wonder. But I'm going through it. I'm like, I don't think I can, I don't think I'm going to get through this. And he says, you keep going.

one more hill, just one more hill, one hill after the other. And sure enough, we got over this big hill and you could look down where they're doing this ceremony. And so I made it, right? We get there and they take this old piece of steel and then they're talking about who we used to be. Then they kind of throw it out and then they come with this really nice sword, right? And you're like, this is who you are now. So it was pretty emotional, you know, and because everybody's in pain at that point. But at the same time, you're like, man,

I've come a long way in 10 weeks. And then that's when, you know, you come back and about a week later you graduate. And your family comes. You have a family day. So my grandpa was there. He did push-ups with me. I thought that was cool. And then the next day you do the parade, the parade, and you do the salute.

And really, I was ready to get on to the next thing, you know. But it was cool what they did for us. I do remember this. So the only thing in the Marine Corps, you get something a lot cooler than you do in the Army. In the Marine Corps, you get an Eagle Globe and Anchor, and they give it to you. It's nice. It's metal. We get this Army value tag.

It's plastic, you know. But I've never seen so many men cry over receiving this piece of plastic. I still talk about that today. I'm like, man, you would have thought that you gave me a new life. And essentially, maybe they did for a lot of us, but you get this green tag and they shake your hand and they finally say good job. And one good job, man. And it just goes to show how important. it is for positive reaffirm affirmation for the people that we care about or the people

were around that one good job and everybody's oh you know you got all these tough dudes who are now you know just just bawling and yeah so then you get done you do that and then you go on to your next training phase usually the day after and you can either go by bus or your family usually can drive you there and drop you off and I chose for my family to to take me I think because you get a little bit extra time to get there. And I had a girlfriend then, so I wanted to spend a little time with her. And yeah, and then we got up there. And I'll never forget, we got up to Virginia.

And my mom decides, and it was a terrible idea. I knew better that she was going to walk with me up to reception. And I said, Mom, you know, I really don't need that. Like, I'm just going to carry my stuff. I'm just going to go. She's like, no, you know, she insisted on going. So sure enough, I know why, right? So she gets up there and this drill sergeant comes out and it's just still training phase, right?

So what are you doing? Why are you here? What is your name? You know, that kind of. I'm going through all that. My mom is like, why are you? You know, she's starting to get mad at him, right? Why are you talking to him?

And I was like, this is going to be the first, worst start to the next, you know, several weeks. And so finally, you know, I kept telling her mom, this is how it goes. So he's like, you need a living. Right. So she leaves. I walk her back out to the vehicle. And I said, you know that you just caused me a lot of problems here. Right. And she's like, you know, she's like, I don't mean to. She gets in a car. I go back. And he's like, so I got a mama's boy. And I'm like, man, here we go. Anyway, throughout the training cycle was able to get to pull out of that. But if anybody out there is listening that's getting ready to go to boot camp, or to advanced individual training, don't let your mom walk with you up there as much as she wants to because it's going to cause your problems. But yeah, so we started. you know, AIT advancing individual training, then from there you go into your unit. How are you feeling coming out at boot camp? Were you still passionate about it? Did you feel good? I was, man. I felt healthy. I felt, I lost like 40 pounds. I felt like I felt like I felt like I was going to finally get an opportunity to stand up for people and not just people, but the whole

United States, you know? Like that was really cool coming from a place where I didn't know that I'd ever see anything outside of the neighborhood. You know, so that was just a real turning point in my life. And so I was, but I was ready to get through the training process too because I learned very quickly that this is a mind game. It's a mental thing, right? And I know what they're trying to do, but I know what they're doing now. And it's just kind of annoying, right?

You don't have to yell at me to get the things that you need, right? I'm a smart guy. But anyway, so no, I was ready to go. I was loving it. I felt like I found my calling. I felt like this is what, all the hard stuff that I've been through. It's what it was doing. It was preparing me for this hard stuff. And it did. I mean, you know, and that's the thing about trauma and that's the thing about stress and that's the thing about,

you know, coming from a tough environment is that it does a lot of negative things. But it also, it's how you spin it in what your perspective is also makes things positive, right? Because I would have been different had I not had that situation if I'd come from what I would consider like a normal environment. I may not have made it, you know. I may have, I may have, I may have missed my calling. My man had been like, well, I don't have to sit here and listen to this because I got people who can pay for me to go to school, right, or can help me get started in life. And so, but I didn't have that to fall back on. So this was great. Did you ever expect to go to war? Because there wasn't an active war at that point, right?

There wasn't. There's nothing that I can remember. I mean, I think there was some some peacekeeping stuff going over in Bosnia, you know. And then, you know, 9-11 happened. And then, you know, everything changed for everybody. And then it was just not a matter of if, but a matter of of when. But even going there, of course, you have apprehension because, you know, obviously nobody wants to die, you know, generally. But it's almost like the Super Bowl, right? Because, like, you train and you train and you train.

And sometimes people go to their whole military career and never get to really put their training to use in an environment like that. And then I felt like I was going to get to do that. I felt like it was a little early. I was like when I went to Iraq, I turned 21 and 22 there. But I was ready to go. Now, don't get me wrong, when I got there, I realized that it's way different to train when you're shooting at targets that aren't real and that real bullets are coming.

You know, mortar rounds are coming. So that changes the game a little bit, but at the same time, it's weird. It's like this fear, but excitement at the same time. And what I had to do in is I had to, I had to think to myself, like, I may not survive and be okay with that. And once I did that, like once I, once I just assumed that I wasn't coming home, it was like a weight was lifted. And I was better at my job.

But up until that point, you're always, because I had a brand new daughter, right, at that time. And that changes everything, right? If I hadn't had the daughter, man, whatever. But now I have this other human who depends on me. me, right? And I just got her. And she couldn't even talk yet when I left. And so I'm going, man, it's not about me now. It's about her. And so, but then I just, so it's like you have that on one hand. On the other hand, you know that's a very real possibility that your life will end there.

And I couldn't just worry about all these things. So I had to quit worrying about that and just accept death. And then if it happened, okay. But once I got it out of my mind and was able to focus on what I was doing, it actually made me safer. So it's weird. I'm kind of glad I, kind of glad I I had that, you know, epiphany. I mean, most people at 21 shouldn't have to do that. But it was so helpful. And it just goes to show that once we overcome the fear, because the fear is what holds us hostage, right?

Fear is a liar. Once we overcome fear, then all of a sudden, then we can really focus on what we're there to do. And so that's kind of how we started it. What was your role in Iraq? So I worked at enemy prisoner war camps. I worked at one of the largest detention centers. in Iraq, really where they say that ISIS was born. I'm sure you're familiar with ISIS,

called Camp Buka. And then we had a detachment in the infamous Abu Ghraibu prison where unfortunately some people made some videos of torture and prisoners. And I always had to say that wasn't me. I was actually on a podcast one time with a guy who was a former CIA. And I always preface when I tell him where I was, I'll tell him it wasn't. He goes, I know it wasn't because I investigated all those people. And I'm like, say it again. Say it again for the crowd, you know. But, but yeah, so, so we would bounce back and forth, uh, from those places. And what type of people were they holding there at that point? So that early on in the war. And so it's really weird because obviously it was for terrorist insurgents, um, but it could be someone who broke curfew,

right? It could be the camel herder who was out too late. Uh, and this is, this is kind of what, I have to say believe because, but this is what I firmly believe started ISIS, is that you have some of the, like you had al-Baghdadi, right? It was one of the most notorious terrorist ever. He gets put there. Well, then you have some of these camel herders. You have some guys that work at a store. You have farmers who just got picked up. There's no NCIS.

Nobody knows how long they've been there. It's chaotic. This is the beginning of the war. It was chaos. Well, they're staying there like four, five, six months. They're pissed. We don't know who they really are. We can't just say, go, oh, you're a farmer cool.

We'll let you go. Well, he notices that. And some other terrorists notice that. So they go, hmm, you see what these Americans are doing? You see what they're doing? You can't even support your, you know, they form this militia, really terrorist group called ISIS. And that's how he recruited. He recruited based off our inability to know everything about everybody and to be consistent in that way at that part of the war.

And so, yeah, so you have farmers who eventually turn into people who like to kill us, right? Or you have Al-Baghd- Growing businesses deal with the same problem. Too many tools, too much back and forth, and not enough time. Odu helps bring it all together. It's an all-in-one business management platform, fully integrated from sales and accounting, to inventory and marketing so your team can spend less time chasing information and focus on growth. Whether you're in retail, manufacturing, or service, Odu gives you one place to manage your business. Visit Odo.com to book a demo. It's ODOO.com.

Or you have other insurgents. How are the conditions in there? It's bad, man. You know, when the Air Force come in several years later, they made it look like a, you know, as norm was, a prison you can be in the middle of Iraq. but it was basically just tense in Constantino wire, like five strands of Constantino wire. And some of these guys would try to jump over that. That was just a terrible thing, man. You know, you can't jump over five strands. But, you know, the thing about these prisoners is the lack of fear, man.

Like, I remember, you know, I was a young guy there. So I'm going, why would I, like, how could somebody rationally think they could try to jump over razor wire? Like five strands high, five strands high, five. strands wide. But it was so worth it for them to get out of there. And I just couldn't put that together, man, because I'm like, you got to know you can't do that. Michael Jordan couldn't do that, right? And so what they would do, they would try to jump. They'd land in this wire and cut themselves up. And then, of course, our medics had to go take care of them, which unfair to them, right? But the

conditions were poor. I mean, it was nasty, you know. They were all just kind of sleeping on top of each other. And then, of course, up at Abergrave, it was a prison in Baghdad before. That's where the torture chambers was, what that Saddam used to do his bidding. So it was like a prison, like an old prison, like a brushy mountain type thing. But, yeah, so it was very poor conditions. It's basically tents and Constitino Wire and different compounds. And then you had, you know, you had people that Geneva Convention and things working there.

And then I remember they tried to. they would try to get these prisoners home whenever they figured out that they shouldn't be there. I don't know. It's kind of similar today, but over here. But anyway, try to give them a little money and put them on a bus and send them on their way. You know, and I just always thought that was all these things at 21, I'm going, man, that's, we're giving them a ride now, you know? Like, of course, we couldn't always do that.

But, and then occasionally I'd get on these buses and we'd escort these prisoners to Abigraib from Can't. Aunt Bucca, which was about an eight-hour drive. And, you know, these buses were similar to, like, kind of like a Greyhound bus maybe. But there was no real divider in there. There was, like, some two-by-fours. And it's really, we didn't have anything. So two-by-four is like some razor wire.

And then, of course, there's the aisleway. There's nothing really keeping them in there other than a 12-gauge, which was the universal language, you know, because they all didn't speak English. But many of them did, especially the Al-Qaeda guy. you know, a lot of them. And I remember sitting there and we was sitting the first couple seats and that's a long ride with these guys. And they'd do silly stuff. They'd stand up and say, oh, I'm a good man and you know, sit down, calm down, right? Or they'd try to piss in bottles and throw that at you. Or they would try to agitate you through noise and things like that. So, but, but, but, you would try to agitate you through noise and things like that.

But I had a conversation with one of the guys who spoke fairly good English. And what I felt was interested, what I thought was interesting about that conversation is he was, he asked me about family. And, you know, at the end of the day, you're not really supposed to get into that, right? But, but I'm like, I'm here. He's here, right? So I had to say, I have a daughter, you know. He said, I have a daughter and I have other kids. And just through that conversation, I realized that we all kind of want the same things, man.

You know, like here he is on this bus and this war. And I'm not saying he's a good guy. He probably would cut my neck off if he had the chance to do that. But I just learned that, man, we really want the same things for our kids. We want safety. We want prosperity. We want freedom. The only thing that's usually different about us is,

our culture, our religion, and those things keep, I think, us from being able to have more peace in the world. Like, what if we had those kind of conversations instead of the other ones? And so you got to imagine, I'm 21, right? And I'm having all these thoughts in my head. And so that kind of changed my opinion a little bit of what we were doing. You know, it went from this, they should all die, right? Because that's what they train you, right?

to, wait a minute, I don't know if they all should. Like, this guy, he only had to fight because they were going to kill his family. And so they made him fight. Does that make him bad? What would I do? I'd fight. You said you're going to kill my kids. I'd do anything, right?

So how can I hate this guy? So I had a hard time hating just for the sake of hating. And so I learned in that moment not to always judge a book by a cover, not to always judge based on culture, based on religion. And I think that changed the game for me, and especially come in handy when I was in prison. Because there's so many different backgrounds there, right? And I was able to fall in really easy because I had this affinity for respect for everybody's differences. And that's what they loved about me there.

But just imagine, 21 years old, I'm working in a prison in Iraq, not knowing that some of the lessons that I would learn there would translate when I'm in prison. never thought I would ever be in prison but was in prison years later for helping people who had been over there with me. You see what I mean? It was kind of a weird combination of events. What do you think it impacted you the most during your time in Iraq? You know, I think it was the connection and camaraderie of the people that you're serving with. See, a lot of people that think we go and we serve because we believe that everything we're doing in America's right. I can tell you this, like the initial thought was, yeah, that's what I'm doing.

But then it becomes, I'm serving because of my buddy over here and because of his family and this buddy and because of their family. It was to the folks to our right and left. And I realized, again, at a very young age, what a true brotherly bond is. And he goes way deeper than hanging out on the weekend, right? And that's basically what I envision, what friendship is. you hang out on weekends, you drink, and you party a little bit, and then that's friends. But over there, like, what I've learned is that when you suffer in the same vicinity as other people, you develop a bond so intense, it can never be broken.

And in fact, I had lunch not too long ago with three guys that I was in Iraq with, and it was literally like we never left each other, you know. And I don't have many friends in the civilian side that I feel like that's what happened. And as much as you, you know, I try to create that, it just isn't the same. I think there has to be a level of suffering to create those undying bonds. And I think that's one thing I learned as wow. So suffering is bad. Nobody likes it.

But if you have to do it, it's better to have someone to do it with. Right. And so that was one of the biggest lessons that I learned while I was there. How long were you in Iraq for? 16 months. 16 months. And then we got extended a few times. It was supposed to be six months.

That's when deployment time started changing. You know, after World War II and Vietnam and things, there were deployments were generally six months long. Then the first Gulf War was actually, they called it the 44-hour war, but of course people were over there for up to maybe six and nine months, at least the people I know. So to be over there past a year was unique,

but it just so happened that we had so much to do there that we kept getting extended. And it actually broke me for a lot of, of reasons because again I had that had my daughter so when I went there I thought okay by June I'll be home no problem June come no we're not going home maybe August cool August comes no we have to stay longer by Christmas you'll be home oh cool perfect that'll work out just just perfect December maybe maybe December 22nd no we're going to be here until March or actually April we're going to be here until April I'm like wait a minute so we go from December to April

another four months. Now keep in mind, like, the longer you're there, the more chance, probability that you might not make it, right? So, so it was just that every time you thought you were leaving, you're preparing your family, you're making that call, right? And then, no, I'm sorry. And so they're very anxious, and they're asking you things. They don't know what's going on. So they're asking you things that they can't understand, right? Well, if they give you a date, like they happen, like, it's like, no, it doesn't work that way. They do what they want. Like, I work for them.

I don't ever have to go home if they don't want me to, right? And so, so yeah, so it was 16 months long, man. It was a long time. And, and I was, I was really happy to get back. But the problem with that is what happens when you get back. And how different you are that you don't really even know, notice, you know, about yourself. and the people around you there don't notice because a lot of them are like you, right? Again, we're all suffering the same things.

And I remember coming home and I was used to the kind of, and I think I heard another guy who was in Afghanistan. It was on your show. He was a D.C. police officer. I think he said it really well when he talked about having that kind of friendship there and then coming back home. and the expectations to still have that with other people and just you just don't have it. And then when you realize you don't have that, you're like, oh, man. So you feel like you're in a room where nobody understands you all the time. You know, why do you got to sit with your back next to the door?

Simple question, but if I have to explain this 15 times, you know, like, well, this is why. Or why do you not like crowds? Like, this is a concert, right? You know, those sort of things. And you always have to, you always have to answer. answer that, right? And it's, you're not embarrassed, you know, like, I've never been embarrassed of what happened to me there. It's just, it's just when you're trying to overcome it, and you keep, you keep being reminded of, like, take this, for example, like, if you're

recovering addict, and you've been, say, sober for, I don't know, five years. And then you meet up with some people who, yeah, you used to like that meth, right? Like, you was a meth guy. Well, no, I'm sober. I'm not on any drugs. Right? It's essentially just like that. Like you're reminding me of something I don't really want to be reminded of. And then you have to get people up to speed, right, on why things are different in hopes that they can work with you to help your transition be as easy as possible.

But it's very difficult because you can't hardly explain more other than it's bad. Everybody knows that. It's dangerous. Everybody knows that. You could die. Everybody knows that. But it ain't always the bullets flying. It's the environmental part of that. You know, being out in this desert, these sandstorms, the smells, it's nasty, it's dirty place. You're getting sick all the time. And all those things over the course of many months, it's torturous in its own right. But everybody likes to talk about the explosions and stuff. But, you know, there's sometimes that don't happen for several weeks. But it's the mundane. You know, I think the hardest part for me was the boredom in between. It's very, and again, prison reminded me of this, right? It's, I'm in the middle of this desert. I can't really go anywhere. I have access to nothing.

And, you know, when things happen, yeah, it's exciting. You go do your thing. But when it isn't, which is generally good, you're just out there with a bunch of time. You're out there with a bunch of time, and then you're out there with your mind. And, man, you put those two things together. and that's brutal oftentimes, especially in an environment like war or prison. How do you cope with that when you get home?

Well, you know, I always took pride in saying, you know, I never, you know, developed a habit for drugs and alcohol. I mean, I did drink, but I want it to. But I didn't necessarily get drunk. But women, I think, for me, some people just think addiction can be. you know, drugs and things like that, but there's a lot of different addictions. And so I thought, I'll be honest, I thought, well, for me, I'm just, I like women, so that's not bad. Like, drugs are bad. Trying to, trying to have women fill a void for you. That's not bad. That's good.

Well, the problem with that is you get in these toxic relationships, right? And so that's why Aaron, my wife, Aaron is my fourth wife, right? And what else, 38, I think, you know, 38 when we got married. So I had three wives by the time I was 38. And all the first three marriages together didn't equate to five years. But what would happen is it was that ideal, right? Oh, I found this woman. She makes me feel good. Right?

She cares about me. We're going to get married. It's going to be happy. All the stuff I'm going to forget about because I'm going to have new priorities. Well, that sounds good in theory, but it's like being addicted to drugs and going to a trap house. Right? It's very dangerous. So then when you realize you get into this relationship where you get married and then it isn't what you thought it was going to be because reality is it's not always a honeymoon, right? You've got the real life stressors of bills and things, finances, all kinds of things. I've got all this residual stuff. I've severe and chronic PTSD. I have traumatic brain injury. I have all these physical things at a very young age. I don't understand why I'm broken like this. I'm supposed to be healthy and young. And then going from super healthy to now you got all these things you have to deal with that does something to you. you mentally. And then all of a sudden, your wife is mad at you because you didn't help her take the groceries out of the car or mad because you didn't cut the grass at the day that

she thought you should cut it. Well, normally, that ain't that big of a deal. That's normal. Well, but when you're carrying all this anxiety and you're carrying all this, all this doubt and uncertainty from what's going on inside of you, that's just one more thing. You know, it's like, That's just one more thing I'm not good at. You know, I can't play in the game anymore because I'm broken, right? Now I'm not even good enough to go get the groceries when I'm supposed to. I'm not even good enough to cut the grass when I'm supposed to, right? When you're in the military, you're this golden boy.

Like, you're the man, right? Then all of a sudden, you're not. So that creates marital conflict. It's not all like the veteran who's dealing with that, but it's just, how do I explain to her why I can't do certain things? And then even if I explain it, well, how's it her fault? Right. And so when it comes to kids, that's how it was always, that was always bothersome to me with my kids is, like for me, and I know some other veterans will agree with this, Disney World is the worst place you can send me, right? Like it's just chaotic and nuts, and I've been there before.

And, well, but what if my kids want to go to Disney World? they didn't fight no war I did it all for them I don't want them to fight no war you know but I just don't really like that like I'm not going to enjoy it so what do we usually do

we go but then scanning we're not relaxed we're on edge every time they ask for something they're going to ask for things it's Disney stop asking you right so then it becomes an enjoyable experience for them and then now you feel guilty right

because you took that experience from them and then you go well did we just waste this opportunity and so it's just this this ever going scenario that you have to try to navigate and so I was always trying to I guess find normal and didn't respect that this that I wasn't ever going to be quote unquote normal whatever that is right nobody really knows what normal is but but like everyone else that was you know 23 years old who were just basically having the time of their life doing the things they want to do and I feel like I can't go to that concert man or they'd ask me to I don't want to go to that festival or whatever it is because I didn't want to be around a bunch of

people you know or if you do go out right you're just watching doors like if something happened what's the easy way easiest way out of here or you're looking at especially bars you're looking at people and you're going who's the most aggressive guy in here that's who I need to be watching you know who's acting belligerent what they're doing with their hands why's their hand in their pocket. Yeah, it was just, and I'll never forget, man, I got kicked out, and thankfully I haven't been back since. I got kicked out of a place in Louisville. It's kind of like a central hub of clubs called Four Street Live. And I never really liked going there, but I went there with other buddies just, I mean, just to be social. And I'm not proud of this, man, but I'm going to,

I'm going to say it. There was a gentleman who was a Middle Eastern descent, you know, he was obviously from somewhere there, right? And I'm standing there with a drink and he's looking towards me. And I'm going, okay? And then he keeps looking. He keeps looking. Drinking, drinking. So then in my mind I'm going, he knows this about me.

And I know this about me. And so I go over and I grab him. And I'm like, I don't know what you're looking at me for. I don't know what your plans are. And he's like, what are you doing? What are you doing? And come to find out he had friends that were, he wasn't looking at me. He was looking past me, right?

But in my mind, he was going to do something to me. Right? So I felt like I had to be the aggressor. I had to go over there and make sure that didn't happen. And then that's when I knew like, man, something's got to change. And so then that's when I finally went to the VA and trying to get some help there, which ended up costing me later down the road.

But those are the type of things that I was working towards, trying to work through as I navigated probably from the time I got home through my 20s. Did you have to go back to Iraq? I didn't. I tried to go back. They wouldn't let me go back. I even tried to sign a waiver to go back. It says, I know that I'd just come back.

I tried to go back a week later, which is really bizarre, But if you talk to enough veterans, they'll tell you why. Over there, I feel like that was my element. I'd have to explain myself. Nobody thought I was weird acting. I knew what I had to do. It was very focused. The only thing could happen, you could die.

That's easy. Over here, you got to make sure this bill gets paid. You got to run this errand. You got to take the kids here. You got to pick them up. It's almost, you know what? It reminds me of it's almost like being institutionalized, you know, like people who have been in prison.

for a long time. And so that's kind of what happened. So I was ready to go back. But then I had my daughter and stuff. And my commander's like, I'm not letting you go. You need to work on some things, right? So that's kind of how that went. So what happens to your career? Do you still stay with the Army? Yeah. So I was in for a couple more years. And then I got out. I got out to end of my enlistment. So I got out in 2008. And what do you transition? It makes me feel old. So that was what a seven year or eight year? Actually, a little longer than eight and a half. They kept me longer. then I was actually supposed to get out. And I don't know why it just says, you know,

service member kept longer of no fault of his own. I don't know what kind of plans they had, you know. But anyway, I remember I got those orders on February 1st of 2008. And I even try to go back into the National Guard and didn't end up doing that either. So I try to go back several times. And then I just started doing the corporate thing. I started working at UPS and, you know,

kind of climb the corporate ladder. I felt like I did pretty good there because of my drive. And I didn't care about like sleep and I didn't care about long hours. And UPS, man, the reason why they can sponsor so much and they're such a big company is because if you're in management there and you're on salary, man, they're getting you. Like you're 60 hours. They're working. Oh, man. I feel like that's any type of corporate job.

You know, like I was talking to someone the other, or like my cousin, they'll give you good money. But they're getting every ounce of that. Like it might sound good making $200,000 a year. you're at a corporation in New York City, you know, but you're, you got no life. Yeah. You're drained, you know. I'd rather take a pay cut for a life. Yeah.

No, 100%. And, you know, and here's the other thing about UPS. It's a good job, no matter where you are. Everybody, oh, wow, that's a good job. So nobody wants to leave. And UPS isn't going anywhere. I mean, I don't know. Maybe.

It's getting kind of, but at the time, nobody's taking UPS's place. So job security was a thing. And so they know all that, right? So they know they can do these certain things and you're going to stay. But I didn't stay. I ended up leaving to become a mortgage banker. One of the guys I was in the military with, he was crushing it, man, just really good at sales.

I think he was having, you know, $10, $13,000 months. And here I am, I'm working 60 hours getting paid at 40. I'm making $40,000 a year, right? Not bad at that time, but, you know, I'm a young guy. You tell me, you know, I can make five figures a month. I'm doing it. And so he's like, come on over, man, coming over. You'd be great at this.

It's the worst advice ever. So I put my two weeks in at UPS. They even offered me a promotion to stay, which would have been like $15,000 more a year. And I was like, no, because I'm just thinking about what he was telling me. I leave UPS, right, and go over. And I was terrible mortgage banker, man. The only loans that I sold or closed were military or like,

law enforcement because it's very direct. You know, he didn't have kids. He just, he has a lot of kids now. I think it's funny, but he didn't have kids. So if he didn't do well, there's only him to take care of. So the commission game, right? It was good for him. But for me, you know, I had responsibilities.

And so I was like, are you going to buy, do you want this loan or do you not want this loan because I got to go through my pipeline? You know, I didn't say that, but in my head I'm working it like that. This guy's on the phone talking about grills. You like the grill? What kind of grill do you like? And he's on the phone for hours with these people, and I'm going. But at the end of the month, he'd had like six loans closed at the end.

And he killed it. And so I left there and went back into management and manufacturing. And then I continue to have these medical issues and was going back to the VA. And then I got rated at the VA, which kind of led to where we are now, as permanently and totally disabled due to, my PTSD and traumatic brain injury and things and I was like permanently totally disabled what's what's that mean exactly they're like well you're we consider you unemployable I'm like okay so so what's that mean so essentially you're retired right and so I said okay what I do now

right got really depressed obviously mission purpose gone trying to figure it out and uh and then In 2019, my wife and I, who's a therapist, we decided to start a nonprofit to help veterans who have PTSD and things, helped them overcome it and get better. And so we're going to do this as volunteers. So we get a board of folks together, most of them veterans, and we formed this nonprofit in 2019. Before that, it was just a Facebook group, right? It was a private Facebook group called Veterans Club. I mean, pretty basic. It was generic name on purpose.

And my ideal was to get six or seven veterans together once a month to hang out, really. Well, then it was what happened. We took off, blew up, ended up becoming one of the top five fastest growing nonprofits in the country, as it pertains to veteran issues, helped thousands of veterans. And then Fox CNN, all these news, national news outlets, BBC international was calling asking me as a subject matter expert on PTSD, on veteran issues, on national security, foreign politics, I mean, all this stuff, right? And the organization's thriving. We're doing really good. And again, I'm not getting paid to do this, you know. I'm just doing this. It's my mission

purpose. It's a, it's a passion project for me. My wife isn't getting paid to do it. We have a director of operations who's kind of running the ship. And I'm kind of the face, right? And so that's 2019. In 2023, I come back from Atlanta, Georgia at a place called Emory University. They have a brain center. And I have to always go and get these kind of tune-ups, right? And I just come back and we're sitting at the conference table. And I was talking to Corey, who's my director of operation.

I was just getting briefed on what it went on. You have FOMO, right? And these two guys come in to our headquarters. And they asked to talk to me. And they had backpacks on ball caps, you know, like veterans. Excuse me. And he'd come and said, hey, can we talk to Jeremy? Of course, like, which he needs to get better at.

But he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, come on in. So he comes in and they say, hey, we just want to have a conversation with you. You know, we just want to talk to you about a few things. And I said, yeah, let's go upstairs to my office. We go upstairs to my office. And they come in, they kind of look around at everything. This is a nice office. So, thanks.

You know, we sit down and they're like, how do you do this? I'm like, it's kind of a vague question, but I'm like, well, I mean, there's a lot of people that are part of this, you know, but we're passionate about what we do. And then they kept asking other questions, and I thought, this isn't a conversation. Like, this is an interrogation. Who are you? And then they finally showed their credentials, right? and they were agents with the VA, OIG. I didn't even know they had a criminal agent's.

Anyway, and he just puts this on my desk and he leaves it there, right? And I'm going, okay. Well, how can I help you all? Because I'm just oblivious. I'm thinking, because we work with first responders, maybe they want to do something, right? And because we were partners with the VA. I was a consultant for their executive leadership team, both hospitals in the state. So it wasn't strange.

And he goes, he goes, we're not here for the organization. We're here for you. And I said, for what? And he said, well, you've been charged, federally indicted for theft of government funds. I said, I don't understand. Like, how did I steal government money? Like, what was, you know? And he says, well, look what you're doing.

He's like, you're highly successful. You're running this nonprofit. You're all over the TV. You know, and he's going through this laundry list. of things. And I said, well, listen, man, I don't have an intellectual disability. You know, like, I mean, there's more players in this non-private board. I have an advisory board. I have, you know, volunteers. I mean, it's not the Jeremy Harrell show, you know. And of course, that doesn't matter when they got their eyes set on you, you know. And he said, yeah, but your level of disability,

like, you shouldn't be able to do this. And I said, I just, I don't know how that's medical. They're like, I don't know how that fits. I mean, that's subjective. Mental health is subjective. Some people handle it different ways. Some people get busy and they do things. Some people don't do anything. And so anyway, he hands me the summons.

And he says, I'm going to do you a favor and not arrest you. I'm going to allow you to go to court, but you've got to go to court on this day. He gives me the summons. And I'm like, what is happening, man? So they get up and they go to walk out my office. And he turns around. He goes, you know, I'm going to go, I'm going to go, I've been following you for a year and a half, and he says, you've done some amazing things for veterans and their families.

And he walks out, and I'm just looking at this paper, you know, like, what the hell? And they leave, and I go downstairs and I said, Corey, I got to get out of here, man, I got to go talk to one of our advisors as an attorney. Carl, I said, I got to go talk to Carl. He's like, what just happened? I said, I had to call you in a little bit. Because the only thing I knew about indictments, I knew it was bad, but I just knew that the president got indicted a lot. But that was basically it. I had one speeding ticket from 2008 on my record.

And so I go over to my lawyer's office. I said, Carl, can you read this? I don't know that I understand exactly what's happening. I said, had these two guys come in. And he's reading it. And he's crying. Like, tear. And this retired colonel, man, he don't cry, you know.

I'm like, what's going on? He's like, Germany. He's so serious. He's like, they're going to put you in prison for helping these veterans. I said, say that again. Like, that doesn't make any sense. It's like I'm, I'm volunteering to do this. I'm not taking any money for this.

Not even mileage on my own. Like, I'm not. So anyway, he says, I'm not a criminal defense attorney. You got to find one. He recommended a couple guys and nobody wants to go to trial, right? So I have a hard time finding counsel that wants to go up against the feds. In my mind, this is a huge misunderstanding. Like, we're going to, we're going to get to the bottom of this.

I want to be involved in the process. I want to be at these meetings. I'm thinking I'm going to get to be at these meetings. meetings, right? So I finally found a couple lawyers who were good lawyers who were willing to fight for it. And he says, we got a meeting with the prosecutor and we're going to go try to resolve it. I was like, good. Where is it in what time? But, Jeremy, you can't go to this. I'm like, well, why can I go? You're talking about me, you know? He's like, that's not how it works. Like you're indicted, right? Like, you can't, you can't go. And so,

He goes up to talk to the prosecutor. And at the very least, my attorneys is trying to get it to a misdemeanor of some sort. Well, the prosecutor makes a statement about, well, Jeremy, or not to me, but told my lawyer, Nick, he said, I don't have much say over this case. My lawyer's like, well, I've been a prosecutor. Like, you choose the cases. Like, who has the say? And he says, it's up to flagpole. He's like, well, I need to talk to.

He's like, that's not going to happen. So we assumed it was out of D.C., right? We assumed the problem wasn't the problem. And then so he calls me, and I remember we were at this outdoor like lunch thing, and I'm expecting to get good news. Like I was so naive, man. He calls him like, all right, we good, man? He says, no.

He says they offered six months home confinement and, of course, restitution. and so what would you say? He said, well, I told him that you were going to trial and that you said that you've worn uniforms and ate shitty food for a long time in your life and that you were never going to, you know, plead. I was like, damn, I didn't tell him to say that. But, oh, well, so he's, so I was like, well, what was his response? He was like, he wasn't happy.

So now I said we're trying to get ready for trial, right? And this whole time I'm out on pre-trial. because I went to arraignment. Here's an interesting story about arraignment. So I'm in arraignment. And again, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I'm asking a bunch of questions at the table. Apparently there's these microphones.

You can hear throughout the whole courtroom. And my lawyer's like, shut. You know, and I'm like, man, I got questions. You know what I mean? Like, I still don't know how all this happened. I never knew I was investigated. Nobody ever come to talk to me. Like, you know, most suspects in any true crime get questioned.

I never got questioned. You know, so I'm all like, what's happening? So anyway, I get arraigned. And the only thing the prosecutor said, he says, I'm okay with him being out on pretrial, but he is not to be affiliated with his organization or talk to anybody that may have ever been a part of his organization. Well, we have thousands of people, man. Like, I don't know who all comes through there.

And because I don't know, I can't talk to anybody now. I realized in 30 minutes everything that I built was taken from me. That was one of the initial, you know, kind of nuggets that I got from it. I was like, wait a minute, this judge doesn't. He just took it. So the judge is like, okay, I agree with that. So then the way it works where I was, the marshal takes you back that same day and does the fingerprints and the pictures and he goes through the questions.

So he's going through the questions. He asked me if I have a brain injury. I said, yeah, I do. And he said, can I ask, you know, how you got it? And I said, well, I was in Iraq. And he goes, I was in Iraq. And I was like, oh, okay, thanks for your service. He goes, when were you there?

And I was there in 2003 and 2004. And where are you at? And I'm a little nervous because he's still an officer of the court right. I don't know what's happening. And I told him where I was. He said, I was there. You was there, too? He said, yeah, I was with the 223 MP company.

I said, oh, okay. And, you know, the first thing he says, now understand, this is, it's just them thinking that I shouldn't, I wasn't eligible for the benefits that they said I was eligible for. He goes, man, you ever thought about, like, getting your VA disability? It was a hell of a deployment. And I thought, Ashton Cuthers coming out of the closet somewhere. This is a terrible joke, right? So that doesn't happen.

And so I say, well, that's, that's kind of why I'm here. He's like, why? I don't get into it at that point because he's still. I'm like, well, I just want to talk about it right now. So he was confused and we ended up doing our thing. And he said, hey, by the way, do you not use your front door? And I said, well, no, typically we go through the garage. Because he initially tried to serve the summons.

But he said, I was going to come back. But the agent was dead set on serving you himself. He said, this is our job. but he'd come in here. He's like, no, I want to do it. And I thought, oh, so this is personal, right? I said, thanks for telling me that. So we left, and I told my attorney about that.

And he goes, he goes, yeah, he goes, that's what I'm starting to figure out about this. Like the problem isn't the problem kind of thing. And so I was out and I had trial in August of 24, a five-day trial. And everybody says, don't go to trial, right? You can't win. and I thought, or you might get the max, or there's the trial tax, all the things you know, right? And I'm just like, I don't care if they give me 20 years. I'm not going to admit to something I didn't do.

If I do something, I'll take it on the chin like a man, but listen, we saved thousands of lives of veterans who wanted to kill themselves. I got nothing for it other than the satisfaction of watching their lives improve, and it helped me therapeutically to help someone else. There ain't no way in hell I'm saying I did something I didn't do. And so, so that, so, so the Lord's like, okay, well, we got to change, we got to change our, our trajectory. So we started trying to figure out, like, how are we going to, how are we going to present this case? Well, they couldn't find any case law. Now, think about how long the VA has been in existence. Now, they found, they found VA fraud, but VA fraud essentially was,

guys says he can't lift anything, but he's on Instagram as a fitness influencer. That was a real case in Florida, right? Just or was rated like me, but then was making a million bucks in his own company somewhere. But never for somebody who volunteered, right? And I said, well, that's a good problem to raise. So we started looking through all the VA regulations. And the first lawyer I told you about on my board was actually a VA disability lawyer. And he's like, there's no rule about volunteering.

It doesn't say anything in the regulations about voluntary. volunteering. I'm saying, okay, well, that's it. That's the case. There's no rule. I can't have broken a rule that doesn't exist. Well, that's what I thought, right? So we get into trial and immediately, and for people who haven't been on a federal trial, it is, it's brutal, man. Like, you know, I've been through a lot of my life, and I can just remember how it feels is setting that seat and doing jury selection, they're all staring at you, right? They all think, they're all either thinking one or two things, either, I'm sorry for this guy or this guy's a dirt bag, right? But, Now, when they come in, they already think, well, there's got to be a reason the government has you in there, right?

So you're under disadvantage immediately. Well, then we're talking about VA disability. It's a very complex process that most veterans don't even understand, right? It was just that same month my trial happened. It was in the Indiana Bar Association magazine as being so complex that it was very hard to work through. So now I have to assume this jury in five days can figure out the VA process. Otherwise, I'm done. or the realities they couldn't.

Anybody that was a veteran struck. Anybody that had any kind of tied to the VA in any way struck. They asked if anybody felt like they couldn't send me to prison. Well, the problem is this is in my own community. So there were seven or eight people. He was like, I know what he does. I can't do that. This ain't right, right?

And so they, no, they're gone. So we finally come up with a jury. and we're going through trial and a couple things happened. The first thing that really should have closed the case was the agent got on the stand. And my lawyer said, is there anything that Mr. Harold would have ever received that asked or that said that he couldn't volunteer? And the agent said, no. He said, so there's nothing in the regulations about volunteering. No.

I'm like, okay. that's done. So then the VA expert gets in, a guy who rates claims, right? It's actually my raider, 12 years of experience, gets on, talks about, you know, we don't always get it right. I thought, great. That's another one, right? And then he goes, and then he goes in.

So my lawyer says, so if there was a veteran who volunteered at the animal shelter and he helped, like these puppies go to the bathroom, and he did that for 40 hours a week, would you look into him? No, not for something like that. He's like, I don't have anything else to say. And we're all, like, we're all thinking we're just, we're crushing it, really, you know? And then the examiner who examined me because they made me do a compensation and pension exam, which in my record, being permanently and totally disabled, you don't ever have any future exams.

Well, that's not true. So many veterans that are listening to this don't ever get comfortable and think that that you're out of the woods on that. So I go to this exam. Well, the whole time that I'm going to this exam, I don't know it, but there's like six or seven agents at this VA hospital level watching me go to an exam, right? So I go to this exam, and it was like three hours long.

That's a little bit on the long end. They're not short because they're asking you about your life. Well, when I get in there, I notice a couple of things that's off. Now, I've been through like a few of these already, right? So I know the questions. and things. So I go in, she doesn't shut the door all the way. This is a therapeutic intervention because it's hippo, right? I don't pay too much attention to that, but I just know something's off. She's nervous. I can see it. And then I'm sitting there. Then a guy knocks

at the door. And she goes to the door, they say something to each other. I couldn't make it out. That's unique. I couldn't find out my agent was there, right? And so she comes back and she's asking me these questions. Now, in a compensation of pension exam, Typically, they ask you, like, what do you like to do? What are your hobbies? Or what keeps you from doing these things? Stuff like that. Well, they start out.

First question. Mr. Herald, are you part of any veterans organization or veterans club? My organization's Veteran Club Incorporator, right? And I said, yeah. And they're like, okay. You ever fly on an airplane? I'm like, this is not right. But I'm going to answer because I don't know what else going on.

I said, yeah, I'll fly on an airplane. where to, just places, you know. And then when they get into the religious part, I know something's wrong because they don't typically, governments don't typically ask that, but they said, do you volunteer in your church? I said, yeah. So what happened was the VAOIG created a new questionnaire

to add on top of the normal questionnaire, basically using a psychologist as an extension of the law, to interrogate me, which is unethical. It's against the ethics of a psychologist, which their ethic is to do no harm to your clients. You should have never agreed to do that. In fact, in discovery, there was one psychologist who rated me at the time before who would not participate in it because he said there was no right to consent. So he bowed out. The one who did, the one who did go along with this in an email talks about how she has to check her liability limits on her licensure insurance.

Now, why would you have to do that if you're doing the right thing, right? So she's asking me these questions, and I immediately know something's wrong. We get through that part, and then there's this other questionnaire. It's like 50 true or false questions. See, they're just not really used to people pushing back, I think. So we get ready to do this. And I said, yeah, I said, what if it isn't true or false? Because, you know, it's not that easy.

You know, these are mental health things, right? She goes, well, you just choose the best one that you think fits, you know, your thought. Well, that's not an accurate way to get an accurate assessment on somebody, right? So even though I made that comment, I go through to do these assessments. Well, in trial, she brings up that my results were off the chart, that they seemed like they weren't truthful. But never does bring up that I made the case that said, hey, I don't think these are true. were false some of these questions. And so my lawyer is asked her, said, did you know before the exam

that Mr. Harold was under investigation? She said, yes. He says, so you had confirmation biased. She says, potentially. How do you do an accurate assessment with somebody that's being investigated, especially when he doesn't know that he's been investigated. And she says, well, I just answer the questions from the questionnaire that's in front of me. And she says, so the investigator was in touch with you throughout this whole process. She said, yeah, in fact, I had to put boundaries on him because, you know, he was interfering in my job. I mean, I'm thinking, okay, there's another, there's another three-pointer, right? Like, she could confirmation biased.

The guy wouldn't leave her alone. So she gets off the stand and, uh, and my lawyer makes one final, um, one final cross examination on the VA expert and says he was a mathematics major undergrad at this really smart school called Transylvania in Kentucky, right? And so he goes up there. He says, so let me, let me just give you a scenario. He says, so if my client worked for minimum wage in Kentucky, and he didn't he didn't make more than a poverty threshold,

but he worked 80 hours a week as a greeter at Walmart. Would we still be here today? He says no. He says so he can make money, work double the amount of what you all think he's working, and that's okay. But he can't volunteer at a nonprofit. And he said, well, I didn't say that. I'm just saying that he would be able to make that money and work that many hours,

which just contradicts each other, right? So he don't say anything. You know, Lord's like, I have no further questions, right? So we go back and I'm like, I think this is good. I think we're going to be one of the one percent, right? Well, day five comes. It's late on Friday, and they go back to deliberate. And I remember the judge before sending him back.

Now, listen, you're going to change this man's life. it's almost like it was almost like he was trying everything he could right to and uh because from my perspective my turn's perspective he didn't like the case anyway imagine what they deal with and they got this guy here giving his time and effort right so they go back an hour and 40 minutes later i have two terabytes of discovery can't go through all that they had a smoke break they ate pizza right and i'm watching them do all this going how do you even eat right now like if i had somebody's like freedom in my i wouldn't even be able to eat so they come back and they read off the verdict.

Now before he read off the verdict, I felt like it was going to be bad because he said the courtroom was full. We had 250 people in this courtroom. So he says, before I do this, I want to make sure there's order. You know,

he's going through that whole motion. I'm like, oh, shit. And so he says, you know, Mr. Hurley, you're found guilty. And dude, I felt like my legs were going to fall out from under me.

And I'm like, my first thought was how in America do you go to prison? Do you be a convicted fellow for helping somebody for free? how does that how does that work right and so uh so i go to ask my lawyer then he goes jeremy first i got to keep you out i said well what do you mean he said well they want you to be remanded now i'm like man so the so the prosecutors you know saying you know

your honor like we think he should be you know or detained now and i remember the judge saying well you know, you have that right, you know, and he's going through this legal stuff. And my lawyer says, wait a minute. Your Honor, this is the same guy that the prosecutor allowed to go to Florida on pretrial and help the disaster relief for the two hurricanes that they had. Because the other thing I do is I'm a chaplain for the Billy Graham Foundation in Samaritan's purse. So I would go down and I would minister to the victims. And then also to the ones down there rebuild the house, right?

it's the only thing I asked to do on pre-trial. So I flew down there on my own dime to do that. And so he brought that to him. He said, so all of a sudden now, you know, he's a, he's a danger or he's an escape, you know, and the judge said, well, no, I think if we learned anything this week, we've learned that Mr. Harrow is not a danger to his community. So the prosecutor is like throwing out all that, no, but right here it says, like they were dead set.

Well, eventually, you know, come to the point where he's like, I'm, I'm going to. I'm going to allow Mr. Harold to be out on, you know, on bond, and we'll revisit this in a couple days. And if we decide that we're going to, you know, remand him, we'll bring him back. He'll report to U.S. Marshall. Dude, I couldn't believe it. I'm like, man, these guys hate me.

Like, why do they hate me so much for helping people, right? And so we leave and then we come back a couple months for sentencing. Sentencing was very unique. It was a shit show. In fact, my lawyers, they've been practicing law since the early 90s, and so they've never seen one like it. So it was like a prosecutor turned it into a mini trial, right? But what really stood out is that the prosecutor, I submitted 70 letters, I think, maybe 69 or 70, and the prosecutor took the time to go pick excerpts out of all these letters. And he called the

people that wrote the letters, and many of them were in the courtroom, called them Keyboard Warriors, Jeremy's loyalist. He's deceiving them. These are, letter should be aggravating. Like, they say that he's been targeted. You know, they say that he's been selectively prosecuted. They say that this was a guy giving everything he had to his community. And in fact, Mr. Harold was taking from his community, you know, he was going through that whole motion, but was, like, visibly angry, like, to a level where he was kind of hopping

around. And the judge let him do his stay. And then my lawyer said, you know, my client would like to use his allocution right. and I didn't testify, so it was the only time I really talked in there, and the judge was like, I'm interested in hearing from you. So I go up, and I don't talk about me in that situation, really. I tell him the whole why about everything, right, from childhood, you know, we get done with that. And then he says, before I go any further, I want to address the court.

And he said, obviously, there's a lot of people here today. He said, we have this live streaming in other courtrooms in this courthouse. he says, but I read every one of those letters. And I don't agree with Mr. Chapman, even though he's a fine prosecutor, I don't agree with his assessment of these letters. I believe everything that was written in these letters. Now, he didn't say, I believe everything except for the targeting or the selective, he said everything, right?

And he says, all the good work he's done with Veterans Club, I believe that's who he is in large men. And I'm going, well, damn, this is a good thing, right? So I try to walk back. He says, no, Mr. I want you to stand right there. So I stand there. I'm at this podium. He says, I want you to turn around.

I'm like, oh, man. So I turn around. He says, look at these people. I said, I know, Your Honor. I said, I love them. And he said, they're obviously here to support you. He says, most often we have an empty courtroom during sentence. And he said, it's very sad, actually.

He said, but you obviously have a lot of. lot of people, you know, who support you and care about you. And it really did something to him, man. And so I turned around again. And he says, what you've done is admirable. He says, it wasn't like that you were out buying boats and fancy vacations. You didn't personally enrich yourself. In fact, it cost you to do this good work. So in my mind, I'm walking out, right, with something. I mean, I know I got a guilty verdict, but I'm walking out with probation or something, right? Well, he says, I wanted to tell you that first. He said, however, when there's a guilty verdict, you know, I'm duty sworn to sentence.

And the government has asked that you would be, you would have 21 to 24 months, three-year supervised release. And he says, what I think my other colleagues would do and what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you six months. to the Bureau of Prisons and then six months home confinement as part of your year supervised release. Dude, the prosecutor lost it, right? Because I got the same, basically the same sentence as I would have got on a plea deal, right? And so the prosecutor looks at the judge and says, since you're punning everything I'm trying to do, you know, can we talk about, you know, forfeiture? and the judge said, so we're using football analogies in a federal courtroom. And, I mean, he just didn't like it.

I thought, I thought the prosecutor was going to get a contempt. I mean, just bouncing up and down. I'm giving my electricity, he's going, no, no, no, no, you know, that kind of thing. But, but, man, I'll tell everybody, Ian, to this day, no man has ever complimented me so much as the judge did before he sent me to prison. And so, you know, once that was over, the marshal come over. And he said, you got to keep going. And I was like, you know, at the time, I'm going, I'm going to prison for this. You know what I mean?

I was like, yeah, I mean, I don't know about that. Like, look what this has led me to, right? And he goes, but you're the man. He's like, I've been following you. He's like, I'm part of your group. I'm part of your veterans organization. I never knew that, right? And so he's like, you got to keep.

going. So we walked out of sentencing and I had a surrender a month later. I wanted to do it sooner than later. You know how people put that off. I'm like, let's go and get it done. So in January, I self-surrendered to, which is weird, by the way. I'm sure someone on the show said it before, but it's like checking yourself into a hotel, right? It's just, it's just very hard to do. I almost thought, I know, I know county jail sucks, right? We hear all stories about county jail, but, man, there's something about like taking yourself to prison. So my wife and my kids, we went down to Ashland, Kentucky, where FCI, Ashland is, and we spent the night in that town just to, I don't want to waste my time with them driving the next,

because I'm two and a half hours away. And what a weird night, man, to be out there with your family, trying to have dinner and just knowing that you're getting ready to leave. And they're all freaking out and scared, right? And it's all over the news. And that's, that made us so much. difficult is all the covers that this got. And they covered every day in my trial, but I couldn't say anything. So I'm sure the jurors were scanning through Facebook, clicking, you know what I mean?

It was just never as fair as it's supposed to be. But we're down in, we're down in national. We get up the next day, and I'm filming a documentary. And so they were there the next morning getting some, some, some, um, some, uh, B-Row and doing some interviews with my kids and things. And just to watch them, like, talk about what it does to them. Like, this is what we're supposed to do. Like, my dad was doing what he was called to do. He's doing what he's, you know, and they just don't understand, man, how that can happen. And, and so they follow me to, to the prison. I was like, hey, you can't, you can't bring no camera on here.

Like, and he's like, what about a drone? I kid you not. I said, listen, I can't go in like that. Like, you can't fly a drone. Are you kidding me? Like, don't fly a drone, right? She's like, all right, I won't fly a drone. So I go to walk in and say bye to my family really hard.

I mean, I go to walk in. in and I'm walking up, man, to the prison. I look at the flag opponent has the Army flag, the American flag, and of course all the branches. And I just remember going, how in the hell that serving those two flags honorably getting me to this place? And for caring about the other ones that serve those two flags, or all those flags, really? And I just had this moment of like, this doesn't make any sense. And so I have my Veterans Club shirt on because we had been filming. And so I walk in and the CEO at the checkpoint there. It's like, you a veteran?

And I'm like, I am. He's like, what are you doing here? And I told him, his exact words was, you got to be shitting me. I said, I wish I was, man, but I definitely wouldn't be here any other, you know. So we go through, you know, all the checks and stuff. And then there's these Cs that's in Kentucky, right? So there's these COs who are coming around. They're like, oh, hey, hey, Jeremy.

You know, like, I have, I have, I was hooked. I have some t-shirts, you know. They're part of this organization that we've helped their families at some level. Right now, all of a sudden, they think I'm there because I'm touring or doing some sort of like jail ministry, which I do, right? And I'm like, no, I'm here to serve time. And they just can't believe it. It's very awkward for them. It's awkward for me.

And so we go downstairs, and every veteran in that prison, tell him, tell her, tell him. You know, so I'm telling the story all the way through. And then you get to the strip search and do it. all that. He never did give me a break on the strip search, though, man. I thought, okay, well, we got a little bit of rapport here. No, he was serious about that. So we did that. And then, of course, that was at the low. You're checking at the low. And then after you go through all the stuff, he's like, okay, now what you've got to do is you got to walk over to the camp. I said, what do you mean? He says, you go and you walk over as a path. I'm like, this is a setup or something.

But nobody, sure enough, man, like some other guys that had come from other prisons and, you know, had been in higher security institutions, they're tripping out too. Like, I ain't got no handcuffs on my feet, you know, like, so we're walking over there. We're just walking through the community. There's four schools in that area. You know, people are driving through and it just felt weird. I'm like, man, they must really not, they must really trust us or so we finally get over there. And, you know, I'm going to get my stuff, right?

and they're doing a tour and then they're taking me to my unit. I asked for, I'm 45, I was 44 then. This was just last year. I asked for the 50 plus unit because that's what I was towed by a friend of mine who was a senator who'd done time there.

And I even tried to name drop him. I thought that might help, it didn't. But I was like, hey, you know Jerry Lundrigan. He says, yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, he told me to ask you specifically about the 50 plus unit. He goes, how old are you? I said, 44.

He said, no. It's like, oh, man. So where do I go? I go to this unit, drug dealers, gang members, and I'm like the old man. And every day in there, it's like a music video. You know what I mean? And I just remember walking in and everybody's staring at you, you know? Now, everybody has cell phones, which, I mean, I had no idea.

Like, I'm walking through there. And, of course, they didn't have them then, but I'm walking through there. And then we're going around, like, you had to walk in kind of a horseshoe. We come around, and they, they, my, my sely is a Syrian guy. And I'm like, this is a sick joke, right? We ended up being real cool. But, you know, initially, like, because of my experience in the Middle East, I was a little apprehensive, to be honest, right? I mean, you're going to be apprehensive anyway because you're in prison.

And all you see is what you see on TV, right? And, of course, they sensationalize it stuff. And then not only that, but I don't know, this guy isn't some, you know. And so I get in there and end up being really cool, you know, that giving me things, you know. And I'm just like, hey, man, like, don't give me anything if you're going to try to, you think I need to owe you something. And he's like, no, it's not like that. So everybody, and what I noticed really quickly is how segregated everything was by race. and I come from a place where there were all racist, right?

And so I was having a little bit of hard time with that. And, of course, the military is the most diverse organization in the world. Well, you know, these guys were bringing stuff. And then eventually there were three guys from the Hispanics, the whites, and the blacks who come by and was like, what are you doing here? And I said, I'm serving time here. They're like, man, listen, we looked you up.

And don't nobody go to prison for doing what you do. And I said, man, that's what, in a perfect world, you're absolutely right. But I don't know if you've seen that pesky little DOJ press release that pops up the first time you put my name in or not. But, but that's what it is. And it's like, yeah, but they could, yeah, they can make a fake one of them and put, And I said, listen, I'm not a cop, right? But they got, so what happened was, you know, they know I'm a CEO. Well, the miscommunication was I was a CEO, right?

And so they're like, you're a CEO. I said, I'm not a CEO. You know what I mean? I guess you could kind of consider me that in the military at one point. But I was like, I was a CEO, right? And so finally we hashed all that out. And I just said, hey, listen, here's the deal. Like, whatever you all got going on, that's your business.

I don't want no part of it. I don't want to be with any certain group of people. I'm here for six months. I'm going to do what I need to do to get through these six months. And I won't bother you and you don't bother me. But when you figure out that the ways that you're doing is not going to work for you and you need some assistance, you can come holler at me, right? And then they never bother me again, man.

And so they also found out that I was a chaplain. So at that prison, they didn't have a chaplain at the time. And so they're like, hey, Jeremy, can you preach Sunday services? And I said, yeah, man, I'll do that. So that's what I did. So I preached Sunday services, and I did Bible study twice a week. And there was no N-A or A-A. So some of the folks who had addiction issues, they would come to Bible studies,

it was the closest thing, you know. And I would do that. And then, you know, I had to find a job, right? It's funny how the government's okay with me doing anything now, right? So in naivety, I'm looking around for a job list, like a job post. So I go into the counselor's office, and you're only supposed to do that twice a week for one hour. You know, you can't just walk in there. I just walk in there.

And I'm like, look, I know you all want me to get the job, but I don't see any listings. He's like, what do you think this is? Indeed.com? And I said, I mean, I don't know. Like, how am I supposed to know? I'm just trying to follow the rules, man. He's like, you got to walk around and ask people. And I was like, all right.

That's what I was like, I was like, nothing about this place. organized or makes sense. It's like controlled chaos, right? So I go everywhere, trying to go to Unicor. I don't have enough time. Even though, like at UPS, I was an industrial engineer, I had all this experience. I went in there with like a resume. I was like, this is what I've done, right? He didn't give a shit about that, right? And he's like, well, you're not here long enough. Go to the garden. No, you're not here long enough. Everywhere I went, I went there long enough. So I go back to the counselor because he's only, I was like, look, I went everywhere. They said, I don't have enough time. And he's like, look, I'm going to put you down as a compound orderly.

Just stay out of sight, out of mind kind of thing. So what I did, I would sit at a table every day, and I would kind of counsel men, like, talk to them about things, right? First, it was more like faith stuff because I'd always had my Bible. And then it started turning into about life stuff. And I remember them saying, how are you, like, how are you so calm, man? Like, I know I'm supposed to be here. Like, how are you so calm? I'm like, what's the alternative?

You know what I mean? Like, I'm not necessarily calm, but what would be the point of me being pissed off every day, right? I said, but maybe maybe the point is so I can talk to you. Maybe the point is so I can preach Sunday services, right? I said, I've always done jail ministry. And every prisoner job I'd ever been into prior, the guys would tell me, We love what you say. But man, just never going to know.

You're never going to know what it feels like unless you're on the other side. And I said, you know, you're probably right. I'll never know what if it. It wasn't, maybe three months after that. Because the biggest jail in the city of Louisville, we have a Valor program there for veterans who are incarcerated. I'd go there every Thursday and talk to these guys. And I said, yeah, I probably won't ever know that. Sure enough, I'm sure they, because they would always say, you know, when I went in there,

they would always say, I saw you on TV. Now they're probably, you know, they're probably like, Damn, what happened? But I'm not allowed in there right now, you know. But nonetheless, man. So I just used that time to help broken men. And it was fruitful. From what I understand when I left,

the last sermon I gave was on Mother's Day last May. And that place where I used to set there, you know, we don't have nothing in there. So they just kind of took a piece of paper from the legal pad and taped my name on it like it was my spot. But, man, I really, you know, despite being in prison and I wouldn't ever want to do it again, I felt like I used the time to the best of my ability to be productive.

And I know there's some men in there who have reached out to me since they've gotten out that have been, that was really helpful for them. What they like most about me and going back to how I felt in the military about, you know, respecting culture, respecting religion is I didn't judge anybody. I just didn't care. You know, I know we all want the same things. And really, I never cared about what they'd done. Now, just to be clear, in a camp, there's a limit on what kind of crime you can have, right? There's no chomos or anything like that. I mean, that would be hard, just to be honest.

That would be hard for me. But because of my faith, you know, obviously I would still try to be helpful when I could. But I'd have to deal with that. But, yeah, man, so I spent all my time, you know, kind of doing that. And I remember, like, a lot of the COs, you know, that, you know, it's almost like they try to stay away from me. And I thought that was a bad thing, you know. But in reality, I think they were trying to be helpful.

But I would be sitting somewhere and there'd be a CEO I've never met, walked by and go, you're doing good, hang in there. You know, stuff like that. Or they would just call me by my last name. They wouldn't call me inmate or anything like that. So they were trying to kind of show me a little bit of respect. Now, one thing they didn't do that I had to ask them to do, and I know this is,

it's just a little bit controversial, but it got to a point where when I would have visits and I had visits every weekend, thankfully, they wouldn't always search me. And I, and I was like, people are noticing, you know, you know how it is. Like, they're like, won't they ever search you? And I'm like, man, I don't know the rules here as far as that goes. Like, I don't know who they, but it's everybody else, right, in that room. And so I had to ask, like, I don't, I need you to. to do that for me.

So they would randomly catch me in a library or something when there's people in there, right, and say, all right, you know, put your arms out, you know, and do the thing, right? But, but, man, I was really worried about that because they already had this thought that maybe I was, you know, a plant. Now you're not searching me, you know. But, man, it was good to get out of there.

I really only did, honestly, four months out of the six because of the first step to act. And then I went to a half. halfway house. This is where the story gets a little bit wild, man. I went to the halfway house. I wasn't supposed to go to a halfway house. And here's what people got to understand about prison. If you are rational, there's no rationale in that place. Like, I remember being told that I had to go to halfway house. I go into the secretary's office and I say, hey, I think there's a, I think there's some confusion. And he's just looking up at me. Looks like he hates his life.

You know what I mean? Looking up at me. What? I said, I'm not supposed to go to a halfway house. I'm supposed to go directly to home confinement. Let me check. Nope. Says halfway house. I'm like, yeah, I think that's wrong. You know, it's like, it ain't about what you think. I don't care about what you, you know, that kind of thing.

You're going to have, so anyway, we get out there. My wife comes and gets me. We got two hours to get this halfway house. And I remember we got McDonald's breakfast, which is a terrible idea. After not eating that kind of food in a long time, we finally got to the halfway house. And I think I was supposed to be there. I want to say maybe a week or two weeks. But really thought that I'd get there.

They'd give me a bracelet until me to go on. That didn't happen. So after like nine days, well, at this point it's about seven days past my home confinement date. I had already asked, like the director of, this was a dismiss charities. You know, they do a lot of the halfway houses in Lexington, Kentucky. And I said, I said, I'm supposed to be a little. on home confinement. She started laughing.

She says, yeah, that's not how it works. There's a lot of paperwork involved in this. And I said, well, I don't know anything about the paperwork. I'm just telling you what, like, if there's a date, it's a date, you know, I don't really care about your paperwork, you know. And she says, Mr. Harold, I can assure you that no one knows you're here. We'll try to process that. We still have to do a home visit and all this kind of stuff.

And so I call my wife because you can have a cell phone. I just can't have social media, but you can have a cell phone and halfway house. I call my wife and I say, hey, they're not letting me leave. Well, she gets on X. She puts a post. She tags Savannah. Savannah sees it. And she calls my wife.

It's like, what's happening? My wife tells her. So then she calls the director of the Bureau of Prisons. Billy Marshall and says, this guy is supposed to be out of there, right? And all this is happening. I'm not aware of it, really. and then all of a sudden my wife seems a screenshot of this guy that was acting on behalf of the BOP and he's got he's at an airport and he took this you know takes a picture of the gate and says

Jeremy here we're coming to get you out right like it was real dramatic and I said Aaron you can't talk to all these people man you can't believe this that don't work this way you know and she says no no Jeremy I think I think this is going to work and I'm like so then the next day She calls me again. She says, he wants to call you. I said, okay, have him call me. So he calls me. And he says, we're coming today.

He says, we're going to stage at this. And I still don't really know this guy's title, just to be clear. Like, I don't know really, like, how he's associated with the BOP or if he even is now. But he says, we're going to stage and we got Fox and all these people. Like, we're going to stage it. And then we're going to come over at this certain time. Right. So I was like, well, I'm going to talk to the director here.

Because I'm still trying to be, I don't know, polite, I guess. So I go until the director, I'm like, look, I just want to go home, like, peacefully. And I just, there's an opportunity to do that now, but it won't always be that way. That's kind of a dangerous thing to say as an inmate, right, because it could be threatening or whatever. Well, she doesn't pay attention to me, man. Then all of a sudden, a couple hours later, I'm standing in the hallway at the halfway house, and there's this other guy. He's looking out the door, and I hear him go, hey.

what's all these news cameras doing out there? And I just started laughing. And then the director comes, because they have this little room. They come out of this little room, and she looks right at me. And I said, I tried. You know what I mean?

And she was like, well, you can't leave. So then this guy, Derek comes up and, and he just walks in, dude, and he says, and I'm standing there. Like, he had texted me and said, hey, get your stuff and be by the door. So I have my laundry back. That's all I have, my laundry back full of stuff.

And he comes in the foyer there. And he's like, Mr. Harold, let's go. I was like, wait a minute. I need some sort of paperwork or I ain't trying to get an escape charge. And then they're over here going, Mr. Harold, if you leave, you'll go back to Ashland. If you leave. And so I'm like, hey, I need some sort of, you know, in course, I haven't had this much stimulation, right, in a very long time. So, and now they start arguing, right?

And he says, no, I'm with the Bureau of Prisons. And he's got the Bureau of Prisons, Com's director on the 4th. phone, you know, communicating messages and saying, no, he is good to leave, like per orders of the, you know, the BOP director. And so they call their people, right? And there are people like, no. And then they come out, say, hey, you need to get off federal property. And he says, this is Kwanzaa federal property. In fact, it's only federal property because we have a contract where we pay you to do this. And if you don't figure this out in 15 minutes, you won't have a contract. Now, Dispice Charities is all over the place, right? So I'm like, damn, this is great. So it's

drawing attention, right? And my wife's on the phone. She's out in the parking lot, too. There's a senator out there. And so she's like, Jeremy, are you all right? I'm like, I just don't know what's happening, man. And I need like some documentation or something. So anyway, he gets the director on the phone, actually. And the director tells them, like, yes. And so finally, their director wants to talk to me. And she says this. I guess they had some extra outside communication because she says, why are you still on my property?

And I said, well, because your director here wouldn't let me leave. I'm ready to leave. She goes, you are to leave now and you are to go straight home because I had the little risk monitor, you know, you are to go straight home. You are not to speak to media. And I said, okay. So then I hang up the phone and then the director there says, He can't talk under BOP policy.

He can't. So then Christy's like, no, he has permission to do an interview. And I'm just like, what's that? So we go out and then they threaten to call the local police. He says that's good. We'll call the FBI Louisville office and have them come out to Lexington. And then we'll just sort it out that way. So they didn't want that.

So I walk out and there's Lexington police officers there. Now, keep in mind, when you're getting ready to leave, they say don't have any contact, the law enforcement, right? He's walking towards me, Mr. Harold. And I don't know what's happening, you know, and I'm like, yes, that's me. And he goes, listen, we're just, we're just going to make sure you can go out there and talk to them and that these folks don't bother you. I'm like, this is awesome, right? So when I get out there, though, my wife has a phone.

Savannah's on the phone. She gets on the phone. She says, Jeremy, I'm so sorry. It's happening to you. She said, I will continue to fight for you. She said, thank you for serving our country. Should never happen to somebody that's done what you've done, all that kind of thing. And I said, okay.

I said, I appreciate you. Thank you for your help. And I'll talk to you soon when I can get clear mind. Because everybody, all these cops are around me while I'm talking to her. So we get off the phone. And then sure enough, I go out to the sidewalk, man, and do these interviews. There's like five or six stations out there. While I'm doing it, the guy, Scott Derek, he's filming it.

And then I guess he sends it up to BOP because then after that interview, I got in the car and went home. I live about 45 minutes from there. So when I pulled in my neighborhood, in my driveway, there were. three news channels. So I'm like, man, I just really want to watch the halfway house off of me and chill with my kids, you know. And so I talked to them really quick, and then the director calls me himself, right? He says, hey, this is director Billy Marshall. He's like, how are you doing? And I said, well, I'm doing better now, you know, now that I'm home. And he said, good, that's good. He said, listen, he said, I don't like what happened. He said, he had just been, no, to be fair,

he had only been appointed a month before that, right? And he says, I have a team. I'm working to develop a team to make sure this doesn't happen, which ended up being like Josh Smith and Rick Stover and these other guys. He said, I almost got him. He said, but we're not there yet. He said, but I'd like for you to transition quickly so that you could come up here with the Crislies and testify before Congress about your experience. And I said, yeah, just give me some time.

You know what I mean? And so we get off the phone and then it was a couple hours later. I get an email of talking points. from the Bureau of Prisons, from their comms director, says me talking points that I can talk to the media about. Now, keep in mind, I'm still under BOP custody, right? Like, I'm nervous. Like, number one, can I even talk to the director?

Like, is that legal? Now I have talking points where it says a trusted resource to the director of the Bureau of Prisons. I'm like, I'm an inmate. This is insanity. So I call, you know, my lawyer, and I'm like, here's what's happening. He's like, what is, what is, he said, your case, man. He says, listen, you can't, you can't do that right now. He says, they're, they're still the government and you're, you're still an inmate.

He says, now, if they want to, you know, give you a paycheck and help you resolve this situation legally, well, then we can talk. But until then, I think you need to let me be the intermediary. And, uh, and, dude, that was the first, that was me getting out. Like, all happened in that one day. And so then I, you know, I got on, you know, I got off home confinement through the BOP, then got on probation. So I go and meet with my probation officer. And he says, somebody called here.

He said about a pardon. And I said, oh, that's awesome, you know, but no more information. He says, now if that happens, he said, the only time I've ever seen it happen in my four and a half years has been one time. and the guy had been out of prison forever, you know. He says, and when that happens, I get a call for information from the partner attorney's office. He said, so, he said, but I hope you get it, right? And so I go on, right?

And then it was this April where I sent him a text and I said, because I always have to ask to go outside the district. See, a lot of people don't understand that either. my hometown is the next county over from me, but that's the edge of the districts. So every time I want to go to my families, I have to ask. I send a text message, usually on a Thursday, say, hey, you know, can I get permission to go run errand, see family, do that? And he approved it, but then he said, by the way, the White House called, and they were asking for information, which I will send to them next week.

and I was driving. So I pull over. Because I'm like, the last time he told me this, he said that was a prelude to, you know, to clemency, right? So I called my wife and I said, I don't know what this means. And maybe not mean anything. But this is just what I was told. She was, you know, everybody's excited, right?

And so that was March. And since then I've been working with advocates who have been meeting with people to try to get this done. And it's so much different than what people could imagine. It looks like. It is not as simple as filling out an application on the OPA website. In fact, I was first told not to do that. And then I was told to do that.

And then when I did that, it was kind of quiet for a while. And then, you know, of course, we had folks, and I think maybe Savannah was one who was advocating for me in D.C. And had other folks present in my case there. and then the application never moved until all this stuff happened with U.S. and I ran. And when it happened, BBC calls and they say, hey, we're in Kentucky because we want to interview you about your thoughts on, you know, this war. And I'm like, I thought that was unique because I hadn't been getting a lot of calls since the conviction, right? because I call it,

I call it assassination of a source is what the local news did, right? But anyway, I said, I said, yeah, sure, I'll talk about it. And I said, where do you guys want to talk about it? I'm like, well, you do horse stuff? And I said, I do. And they're like, well, can we do it at the farm? That's always good for, everybody wants to do it at the farm, right?

And I said, you want me to hold a horse too? And they're like, actually, yeah. So we get to a farm and she asked me, obviously, my thoughts on it. And I was for it, right? I'm still for it to an extent. until it starts, boots on ground, then I get a little. But I was like, yeah, I support the presidents, you know, and the Secretary of Wars, you know, military action.

And then she asked me this. She goes, so in your opinion, like, I forget how many months he'd been president at that point, but she said, since he's been president in his second term, what do you think? I mean, do you think he's done a great job? And for the most part, I do, right? And I said, yeah. I said, I think there's been a lot of improvement in a lot of different areas. And I say what I say.

And, well, when she airs that, she sends me the link. And on the link, the first thing she says, she's got me walking with a horse and it says, Harold, an Iraq combat veteran and Trump supporter, and she goes on. And I said, so I send that, send it to my, you know, advocates to send up. Like, here, send this. And then NPR calls, right, which I don't typically do NPR, but NPR calls and says, hey, we're going to have some veterans on. It's a show called On Points. It's a big show we're having veterans on.

And, you would be a good counterpoint based on the interviews that I've seen you do. These veterans generally aren't supportive of the war. And I said, so you want me to walk into the Lions Den, right? And he said, yeah, so I do that interview and pretty much they're coming out. me hard the host is about they don't like Trump Trump's a liar all these things and I'm just defending defending defending and uh it was our show man and and I get in I leave getting a car he's from I know wherever he's from he sends me an email he's like sir you did an amazing job as a counterpoint art so when I looked at the transcript as soon as it come out I was like send it

So I did that like four or five times. Then all of a sudden, um, get an email. My lawyer gets an email says that to review my application, I need three. They need me to do three things. I had too many letters. They wanted me to find the top three, right?

Then I, then I had to do it. You'll think this is funny. I had to do a release of information so that they could do a background check on me, which I think, I was like, man, they didn't ask for permission the first time they did that. Um,

so I send that in. And then I'll send that in. sudden things get rolling. And I'm like, man, this is, this is weird. So I don't know, like, was it the advocates? Was it because I defended and defended him with this war as a veteran? I think at the time, there was only 17% of veterans who were for it on a station that he hates, right? I won't say hates. I don't want to speak for president, but has publicly shown disdain for it at times. But nonetheless, man, That's where we are now.

I just got off supervised release a couple weeks or actually Monday. And I'm here today talking about this. But that's kind of where the story is at this point. But crazy, crazy ride. No, I'm trying to figure out, you know, the judge was so on your side, but he still gave you kind of a screwed up sentence. Yeah. Because, you know, I mean, you look at some people that they'll get a day or they'll get time served

because I think the minimum he would have to give is like a day if he's not doing like time served or like house arrest. He could have done just house arrest. He could have just done probation. Could have done a week. Yeah. He could have done 30 days. So I don't know.

I just don't. It sounds like he was probably playing politics a little bit too. Yeah. To kind of meet in the middle because I mean, my judgment in the middle between what we were asking for and what the prosecutors. Yeah. But I don't know. It just seems like he didn't have to give you six months.

But also at the same time of year, supervised releases is on the low end. they give like two or three or if not higher. Right. Three or five, I think. What about restitution? What do you order with that? Yeah. So restitution is, they claim that I owe $207,000.

And where they get that number is they went back to the date that I signed my initials on a docu sign when they did the articles of incorporation for the nonprofit. Me and all the board members had to sign the docu sign. And I guess when you sign your initial, you become, they say I became a, I became a, I became, employable at that time, which if that's the way you're doing it, then everybody who has any level of disability isn't if they can sign their initial. But that's what they went back to because they can build the case and make the case higher. And the guidelines because of the money's higher, right? I think over 150,000, it changes dramatically. And so they did that. And then they try to impose forfeiture. And just recently, last month, actually, I was up in Detroit at the

Sixth Circuit. We were repelling the forfeiture. allegation because of the way they did. They amended the judgment when I was in prison three times. Never told me about it. I was never present, right? Never knew anything. They continued to add punishment. Well, the Constitution says that any time someone gets sentenced, they have to be physically

present. You have to orally hear it, and you have to be able to respond and make sure it's clear or object, whatever you want to do. Well, I never got that. that option. In fact, they amended the judgment the day that I surrendered to federal prison, which I felt was actually knew I couldn't do anything about it now. I mean, I could, but it wouldn't be as easy, right?

I couldn't just go down to my attorneys. So actually a big law firm in D.C. called Paul Weiss. They picked up that case pro bono. And we went to Detroit. And what's interesting is the chief judge of the Sixth Circuit, there's, I think, 16 judges, and then he's the chief. He was on my panel. And when you think about that, it's like it's $108,000 extra, right, for the forfeiture.

So it would be over three total. But you think, man, that's kind of a small case for him to want to settle on, right? But I think why is this case is so unusual. And because there hasn't been another like it that it could be one of the cases that sets precedents, right? I think, but I do remember being up there. And one thing, you know, the government always talks about waste, fraud, and abuse, right? So we're in this big courtroom in Detroit. There's a plaque outside the courtroom.

It says the $2 million courtroom, right? And I'm going, damn, you talk about waste, fraud, and abuse. I think spent $2 million this courtroom is you go in. There's marble. There's columns. I mean, it looks like something out of the Roman Empire. But so the way for people that I don't know, the way oral arguments work is each side gets 15 minutes. You can use that 15 minutes however you like, but that's all you get.

Well, the person that showed up for the government wasn't my prosecutor or wasn't the person that wrote the brief against me. It was, from what I understand, it was the AUSA who kind of just signs all the orders. And I thought, this is kind of like their Super Bowl, right? If you're an attorney and you get to argue through an oral art, because that only happens about 13% of cases. Like, you'd want to be a part of that, right? And I was like, maybe this is managed retreat, you know? Maybe they're like, well, we're going to send you up there just to get it done

because you have to be there. But it's hard to beat constitutional things. So my lawyer gets up there and she says, I want to speak for 12, but I want to reserve three minutes for a rebuttal after the government. And so the government goes first and basically just, you know, Mr. Hero knew forfeiture was coming. It was in his indictment. And one of the three judges happened to be a forfeiture attorney in her past. And she brought that up.

She said, I was a forfeiture attorney. And she says, do you think it's okay that Mr. Harrell wasn't present during this part of sentencing? and for some reason, and I'm not a lawyer, but this just seems like common sense. She says, not in this case. So why this case? Right? Why would it be okay in this case if it's against the Constitution,

not any other case? It really just shows personal animus, right? It just shows that they continue to try to hurt me. And so that drew, the judge just kind of perked up a little bit. And then she had like seven minutes to go and didn't have anything. Basically just said, do you all have any questions? And the chief judge says, well, your argument was that Mr. Harrow invited error because what happened was the judge, doing that part of the sentencing,

the judge didn't bring up forfeiture at all and we're about to be done. Well, then the AUSA there, the prosecutor says, well, we haven't talked about forfeiture yet. So then the judge says, well, due to the late hour, we're going to address forfeiture later at a subsequent hearing. So my attorney says, okay, Your Honor. Well, they're trying to say he invited. The reason why they couldn't do that in person for me is because my lawyer invited the subsequent hearing, which should make it null and void that I wasn't present. but what the chief judge says,

well, it sounds like to me the judge invited the error. He's the one who said, due to the late hour, we're going to do this. And because he didn't say, Mr. Harold, you are going to, you know, you are going to get forfeiture, but we're just going to talk about it later. He didn't say that. He didn't say that. He just said, we're going to address it all later. So because he didn't say it's mandatory, then, you can't go back.

And so that was our argument is you can't just add. you know, punishment, you know, whenever you want to and invite it and say it's a clerical error because that's what they said. It was a clerical error. But, so we're still waiting on the opinion for that. But the chief judge looked at my attorney at the end of that and he says, had you been Mr. Harrow's trial counsel, we very likely would not be here today. But he caught an unusual case. The other judge next to him said it was unique. In fact, we don't have anything to compare it to. Right. And so that brings me to the point of, well, if you think about how many cases go through the Court of Appeals over history, if it's that unique and that unusual, then maybe because there shouldn't be a case. Because really the whole problem with this case is they took an administrative process and turned it criminal because of who I was.

You know what I mean? Like for veterans who seem like they're who may on the surface look like they're getting better. and of course it's all relative and subjective. The VA typically will send you a letter that says, hey, we're going to propose to reduce your benefit level. And you can appeal this and we'll do another exam and then we'll make a determination. The worst thing that's ever supposed to happen is they reduce your percentage and you go on with life. But in my case, they decide to make it a criminal matter. And when I had an oral hearing with the judge when they garnished my accounts and my

wife's account we have a joint account they took her money which is really what pissed me off we had an oral hearing and uh i went there by myself and uh everybody's like you you can't go federal court by yourself and i said they literally took everything but 30 dollars out of my account what am i supposed to do you know any 30 dollar lawyers you know and so i go in there and he asked he says mr. was your counsel said i don't i am him i'm doing this pro se and he goes i don't recommend that i said i have no choice they took they took everything now here's the thing that that prosecutor was from the financial litigation unit he didn't know where the courtroom was so I don't know that they go to court often because by the time it gets to the

financial piece I think everybody's done man there's like whatever it is just I'm done fighting this well I didn't what I did and so he had like a I don't know it might have been a stinopad and maybe a manila voter that was it I had binders of case law and in Congress and all these things and so I opened up with that and said, you know, I said, I said, I said, journalists, but they did. I went to a treatment program in Atlanta. The day that I got there, they knew that where I was going, because I have to report that. The day I showed up, they garnished my account, took like $30,000 from me. It was like our last nest egg, really, because they had been draining us, right?

And left $30, which is weird. I said, but here's the problem. That is a joint account. That is my wife's money. I've been in prison. I haven't had any money. And the money that the VA is supposed to give me, they take that every month. I never see it.

I never will see it unless I pay $200. Right. So y'all took hers. Like, I have a problem with them taking her money. And the judge is like, so you're not here for you. I said, no. Not today. Not at this juncture.

I don't want to totally, you know. I said, my wife. I said, any man worth his salt would be. here like standing up for his wife and he said he said that's commendable mr herald right and so uh he looks at the prosecutor and and uh and says what happened the prosecutor says well the united states has the right to take the money however they see fit and uh and that's what we did and so then i pulled out this law that congress wrote where it says uh disabilities protected income it can't be garnished, levied, or taken. And the prosecutor says, well, unless it's the United States.

And I said, Your Honor, it doesn't say that in this law. It don't say unless you're United States. It just says you can't. If that's the way it's going to be, then somebody should change it. But they haven't yet. And so that's why I'm going to show you this report where the court has split. And really, it's up to the court to decide how you want to honor this. And I said, what it seems like is if it's against like a corporation, the court's favorite. If it's against an individual, courts usually sided with the government. And I brought all these, you know, all these examples. And they just kind of smiling at me, you know.

And I said, furthermore, Your Honor, I have a problem with the judgment. I said, they don't care what you wrote in the judgment. I did it on purpose, you know. I was like, they don't care what you wrote in the judgment. Like you said that I wasn't to start paying restitution until March 1st of 2028. which was four years, by the way, which was unique. At an amount of $100 a month, they took everything. They didn't even pay attention to your date.

They didn't even care about your amount. And so he's over there. Your Honor, that's not true, but that's a floor, not a ceiling, you know? And so the judge looked at me and he said, Mr. Ruff, in the event the government ever tries to take more than 25%, I'll give you another hearing. And then that's when he had. asked me, he says, do you think there's a miscommunication between the court, the VA, and the

Department of Justice? And I said, yes. I said, and that's what I told him about the, you know, this is an administrative process. It's not designed to be criminals. It's why nobody can figure it out. That's why the money that I've given the DOJ hasn't made it to the VA yet, and they're not even talking to each other. How do I know that any of the money I give is actually going to go to the place it's supposed to go? I don't have any receipts. Nobody sends me nothing, you know, kind of thing. And he just looks, he always just looks at the government to answer,

well, well, you're right, we'll make sure that, you know, that kind of thing. But then he asked me, the last thing he asked me,

and I was hoping he would as he says, Mr. Errol, tell me about this treatment program that you're in. And I said, well, Your Honor, I was supposed to go to the Shepherd Center.

It's a catastrophic brain injury, hospital, spinal brain, best in the world. And they have a military section. And they send guys from CIA, FBI, anybody with brain injuries. It's like the top notch. I said I was supposed to be down there for two weeks. But actually, the doctor that I have that's review in my case happens to be the chief medical officer of that hospital. He is a veteran,

was a Navy surgeon. So every now and then, he takes on veterans for clients. And I said that he said, after testing, that I needed to be there. 14 weeks due to the severity of the disabilities that were in question during trial. And you could have heard a pin drop in there. I said the very same disabilities that I went through trial for are so, in his words, they're so severe that not only do I have to stay longer than in two weeks, but it's a 12-week program. They want me to stay 14 weeks. And he just said, there's some things I have to look at. basically. But he, you know, I was glad that that was the last thing that was said in that room

because, you know, I want, I want, I want, I don't want this to happen twice, but then, you know, I want them to understand that those who were, you know, prosecuting me weren't doctors. They saw, they saw me on TV. They saw me speaking. They saw, you know, me changing policy, which they didn't like. They saw me still in campaign points because we were, we were, we were, we were completing the work. We weren't just saying, hey, in five years, we want to do that. We're doing it in five months. And I was doing it for $5,000, not $2 million, right? So people hated that. And so really that's what all this case is about. It's about, and that's why, you know, I've been working with these weaponization groups because it was at the very end of the last

administration's Department of Justice. In fact, I talked to a lot of people now, obviously, who have been in the same, similar situations as me as far as in the justice system federally. and to have an indictment and then a trial and then sentencing in a year is rather unique, but they got it in at the end of December of 2024 for a reason. You know what I mean? And so my hope now is that the current administration will be able to see through it and be able to potentially help me. Well, do you think the silver lining is here for you?

What do you think was the lesson, the takeaway? Well, one of the takeaways is, as I tell my kids this, is whether you do good or whether you do bad, people will hate you. They will hate you for being too good and they will hate you for being too bad, but to do good anyway. And then from a spiritual standpoint, I told them early on because, you know, I'm their hero, right? And those are heavy shoes to fill, man. And they just kept saying they saw dad who couldn't, he couldn't do anything about this. like you couldn't fix it, right? And I said, I want you to know that when you have these problems,

you got to first go to God. I'm not him. You know what I mean? Like, I'm in a position now where I can, all I can do is totally rely on him. I can do nothing for myself. Of course, I can advocate, I can post, I can talk to people who have, you know, who have access and things. But at the end of the day, there's one man in this country who has to decide whether or not

he believes that, and I said, it doesn't matter whether I'm, it's not about who deserves it all the time. It's about, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that go into deciding who gets clemency, right? And I said, I may not. And we have to accept that. And if I don't, we'll continue on anyway. If I do, I'll just be able to move a little faster because I won't have the black cloud hanging over my head, right? I said, but at the end of the day, I'm going to do what I need to do either way. And so don't let this stop you from doing what's right in this world, because oftentimes what's right doesn't line up to what the world views, right? And so, so in a spiritual sense, God's commands, doesn't always interact with what the Department of

Justice believes. In fact, they hardly do, right? And even in my allocution, I told the judge, I said, Your Honor, no matter what happens here today, I will never stop doing what I feel is right for people who are suffering. Like we saved people's lives. I will never apologize for that. Of course, that fired him up because I would never, what they want you to do, accept guilt, right? I've never done that. Now, my lawyer tried to try to say something in his little, you know, statement of, and I didn't like it. And I told him that, but he tried to say, you know, Jeremy did the right thing or the wrong thing for the right reasons. I didn't do anything wrong. You all told me that I was permanently and totally disabled. I don't know what people hear, like what they think when they

hear those two words, but to me it means all encompassing, like permanent total. Static disability, no likelihood of improvement. So why did that change 14 years later, 15 years later? You never bothered me. But as our organization grew and as I got invited into these rooms with legislators, both local and national, and I started making a difference and I started telling the truth, while all of a sudden did it become a problem when I was a little, when I was a little social group, we were a little social group

and I was just a one-man show just going out and feeding the homeless, everybody was cheering. Yes, right? But then when it started to make a difference nationally, then all of a sudden somebody didn't like that, right? And so I know that this happens sometimes.

And what I've always told veterans is I will advocate for you even when it's uncomfortable. And so people ask me all the time, they're like, Jeremy, why do you keep fighting? Because in fact, two days before supervised release, I put my 2255 motion in, right? They've already answered and said,

well, what's the point now? You know, what's the continuing consequences? Which I had to address that before the 30th of this month, and I already have what I want to say. But the point is, I fought every step of the way, every part, everything that you could do in a federal system I've done. And a lot of the reason I did that was, number one, I want to know how to fight, right? But number two is if they do something like this to veterans again, I want to be able to look

them in the eye and say, hey, I did everything I could to try to not make this permanent. I try to beat it every way I could, right? And because that's my promise to them. Because if they do it to me, they're going to do it to others. And this agent who used to be a Secret Service agent who was overzealous somehow, you don't go from Secret Service, which is the cream of the crop, to VAO-I-G for no reason. So he needed a feather, right? He needed a headline.

And I think that's what happened. The initial tip that they got, the anonymous tip that come two months after they started investigating me, and the prosecutor said in trial, he don't know where the tip comes from. I don't know how you are legally able to do that. You got to know. He says he don't know where the... Anyway, it talked about... They thought maybe I was taking money from the organization because I have it.

It says, I was living too good. I don't know what that means. I mean, I have one house and one truck and one car, right? Well, they did a forensic audit. They found nothing. In fact, I've taken less than most nonprofit leaders in this country. Why didn't they stop? Why did they close the case?

Well, because they had to find something. So then they go down to rabbit hole and they try to find a way. And because the government paid me, they get access to you. And then they figured out a way to do it. And so anything I can do in the future to fight, I'm going to keep fighting it. They don't like that about me. I'm sure there's probably a picture of me with darts in it. In fact, when we were going back and forth with the garnishment, right,

when they took the money, the judge made that prosecutor communicate with me. me over a period of time to come to a resolution, which I thought was unique for a judge to do. I feel like the judge at times, you know, showed favor, right? But at times, didn't, right? Like you said, well, so we go back and forth about money. I want, you know, I said, you can keep $4,000 and give me the right. Well, they're like, no, they got to win. So eventually, after back and forth, and I even tried, I said, I said, you know, we can meet in person.

Like, I'll come to your office where we can just talk about this. Of course, he never took me up on that offer for me to come in person. But as we were at the final communication, he said, I'll give you $8,000 back and require no documentation. Now, understand I've had to take all these bank statements, right? And so I'm a layman. I don't understand none of this. So I respond just to be clear because I'm not a professional attorney like you. So now documentation isn't important, question mark.

Right? And he says something about his discretion, right? He says, but you don't have to, if you take this, you don't have to submit any documentation. I said, I said, well, okay, I'll take that. But then I also need you to remove the garnishment off my account because if they wouldn't have done that, any money that I made up to $200,000, they just take it. I couldn't survive. There's no way, right?

They're not giving me the VA money. And he said, okay, so he writes this proposed order, and it says, account. And I said, look, again, I'm just a layman. It needs to be more clear. It should say accounts, so that any accounts I have there, you know. And so a couple days went past, and then he comes back and says, okay. Right. So then people are like, just.

Jeremy, like, you got a lot more of the money. I'm like, listen, but this ain't about the money as much as it. Like, the government said I stole from them, but they just gave me money back. They say that I can't be trusted because I was a liar, but they trust me enough to remove a garnishment. That's all I need to know, right? Like, if somebody steals from you, right, you're not going to give them money back, you know? And so that's what happened. And so that's where we're at now, man.

We're still, we're still, I'm still very much in the fight, but I'm going to go as far as I can go with it. And hopefully we get a good, we get a good, a good report with this forfeiture. And then ultimately, hoping one day I can get the president's autograph. I'm not a big autograph guy, man. Like I'm not a fan, like, I've never been like, hey, I want their autograph. But man, I need this one. You know what I mean? And so, so yeah, that's kind of where we're at.

Well, Jeremy, I appreciate you. taking the time and sharing your story with us. And, you know, I really hope you get that part in. Yeah, me too, man. And again, I tell everybody that I was just up in D.C., we had this event, right? And, you know, I want to be clear that I don't want it just to write off into the sunset. I want this so I can go back to doing what God has called me to do and to help so many people. Because this has impacted our community. Like, I got Vietnam veterans calling me all the time. Like, hey, Jeremy, I can't work, but I do raffles at the Marine Corps League. Are they going to take, you know, my benefits?

I mean, it's a bad precedent to set. Like when you're telling veterans to go out and be part of the community and not isolate, because isolation leads to oftentimes suicide in our community, well, but if they're going to be criminalized for doing something, then what are they going to do? They're not going to do it. And then, you know, it leads to worse things. And so I hope the government can make it right.

You know, I hope they can fix this wrong. And not just for me, but for the veteran community. So these veterans can get. out and start helping each other again because we can't complain about the 23 veterans a day that killed themselves if you're handcuffing everybody who's trying to do something about it. And so ultimately, I hope that's the message that gets sent is that we should be celebrating veterans who want to get out and help other veterans instead of making it a criminal process. But yeah.

Thank you. Yeah, man.