Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a Crip Inside New Jersey Prisons — The Truth I Never Told | Jahquan Allah

Starting point is 00:00:00 You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost! Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your oceanfront room. Just steps from the water.

Starting point is 00:00:16 The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Own it all. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari.

Starting point is 00:00:34 In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly Big Board Buckslot machine by Aristocrat Gaming, Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is giving one person a $1.6 million dream package. The biggest prize in Yamava's history. Club Serrano members can earn daily instant prizes and secure a spot in the finale May 29th. Don't pass go and own it all. Only at Yamava, celebrating its 40th anniversary.

Starting point is 00:00:54 You win? Details at Yamava.com must be 21-20. Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion. Enjoy more ways to save at Ralph's, like low prices in every aisle. And when you download the Ralph's app, you can clip and save more with digital coupons every week. Plus, you can earn fuel points to save up to $1 per gallon at the pump.

Starting point is 00:01:15 At Ralph's, you can enjoy more ways to save and more rewards every time you shop. So it's always easy to save big every day with savings and rewards. Ralph's SoCal for over 150 years, savings may vary by state. fuel restrictions apply. See site for details. I was neighborhood crypt. One of the biggest crypt cartels in America. How'd your mom react to that arrest?

Starting point is 00:01:36 It's easy to die. And it's just like, it's just so simple to the point where the most cowardest person could just pull a trigger and kill you. Why do you think death was always a proponent for you getting into trouble? Like, my first experience really like in prison. So I'm like, yo, I'm in prison. Like, I'm downstate now. It's just like, this is what all the stories I've been hearing from people that went in prison before. And they was telling me the stories, everything is starting to ask.

Starting point is 00:01:58 up. Jaquan Allah caught his first gun charged at 16 and spent years in and out of New Jersey prisons as a Crip. From growing up in poverty to surviving the system and walking free in 2003, his story is raw, real, and all about redemption. Flash, welcome to locked in. Thanks so much for coming on the show today. Thank you for having me, man. We locked in. Yeah, you and the crew drove from New Jersey to be here today. Yeah, yeah, man, I had to get here. You know, my cousin, when I was in the halfway house, my cousin had, he had sent this to me. It was like, yo, man, check this out. And big, bro, interview people coming home, you know, officers, people telling their stories

Starting point is 00:02:34 and stuff. So I was like, oh, all right, I jumped on the page and I was looking. I'm like, yo, I got to get on here. Like, you know what I'm saying? I got a story to tell, like, you know what I'm saying, coming from where I come from. So I was like, and everything that I've been through far as across the races. So I was like, yo, I got to get on here. So like my second day home, I sent the email out.

Starting point is 00:02:51 I didn't get nothing back. So I'm like, oh, all right, you know, just waited patiently. Then like, one day I checked my emails and I was like, oh, they wrote me back. You know, they hit me with, like, information, contact information. So I was like, all right, it's late, y'all. And, you know, I've been ready ever since. So, man, nice to meet you, bro. Yeah, you too, bro.

Starting point is 00:03:07 I mean, it's a podcast for just like the average ordinary people, you know. So, you don't have to be a celebrity to be on the show, which is the coolest part. We just have so many requests. But we'll get to everyone eventually. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was told. It's easier to kind of prioritize the people that are tri-state area because it's not. It's easier to drive two and a half hours and someone to fly, you know, across the country to be here. So, but people come from all over.

Starting point is 00:03:28 It's really cool. I had a lot of bunkmates at Fort Dix when I was there that were from Jersey. Yeah, yeah, Fort Dix. I know a couple guys that was there also. Yeah, so did you grow up in New Jersey? Yeah, yeah. I grew up in New Jersey, Asbury Park to be Pacific. Born and raised.

Starting point is 00:03:43 And it's a small city, really, literally one square mile. Like one square mile, bro. Like, the city is so small. Everyone is, like, related in some type of way. Like, my dad, know his dad. My dad and his dad grew up together. My mom and their mom grew up together. It's like a real small city.

Starting point is 00:03:58 but it's dangerous. And that's where you're back now? Yeah, yeah, back in Asbury, but get ready to move out. And you got the fitness company now, right? Yeah. You guys are just using the prison cell to make some prison workouts. Yeah, some good content, man. Just makes you all prison bodybuilding type stuff, right?

Starting point is 00:04:16 Prison workouts. Yeah, calisthenics, you know, because we limited to weights. It's like certain prisons have weights, but in like DOC, like New Jersey Department of Corrections, they don't really have much weights there. probably like Trenton and what people doing like life and stuff like that but it's really not no waste but like I train and like calicthetic like I consider myself a calicestatic athlete yeah and I love like push those pull-ups dips burpees anything with like shrimp training and like body weight we dominate the body weight yeah calisthenic workouts are great I'm getting back into doing

Starting point is 00:04:45 more of those we did like a circuit earlier with my cousin and stuff so yeah it's a good I mean you saw that little gym we built upstairs too yeah it's I like it's nice it's nice yeah and we got to get Maddie ice beefed up you know yeah I was checking Maddie outside man man. You always convince to work out. You watch you, man. Come to Flash Fitness, man. I get you gingy. Yeah. So do you have like your own space? Um, no, not right now. I actually be like going to like different gyms, you know, but I like link up with different clients and stuff like that, but just going along with it. That's awesome. I love how, you know, someone uses their prison sentence to kind of convert it into a business after. Yeah, yeah, because it was like, you know,

Starting point is 00:05:19 it was mentally, it helped me. You know what I'm saying? Like working out in prison, it's like therapy. It's literally therapy. Like, you know what I'm saying? because, like, it was times where, like, when I was in prison, I'll call home to my mom and she'll be like, she'll just give me bad news. I didn't pass away, COVID. I was locked up for COVID. Cousin passed away, got killed. Friend passed away, got killed.

Starting point is 00:05:42 And it's like, dang. So I got nothing really, like, you know, let that frustration out that, like, you know what I'm saying? So I go, my scapego is to work out because it makes me feel better. You know what I'm saying? Even though I didn't see it, like, physically knowing that this person not here anymore, but mentally it would take me to another level. So that's what, like, fitness really does for me. Like, it changed my life for so many ways.

Starting point is 00:06:03 I just, like, I feel good when I work. I feel like I'm at peace. What was your upbringing like? Growing up, it was like, you know, in the poverty, you know what I'm saying? Growing up with my mom, my dad was incarcerated. Like, first time, like, when I was growing up, my dad was incarcerated. He didn't come home until I was about 10 years old. And it was just me and my mom.

Starting point is 00:06:26 Single, single mother. going from, you know, family house to family house. We was homeless at one point from hotel to motel, stuff like that. And, you know, family took us in. My dad ended up coming home. And, you know, we just brought the family back together. No siblings at all? I have a little sister.

Starting point is 00:06:42 Yeah, she's 21 years old. I'm 31. I have a little sister. So, but I'm really like, you know, I'm the baby boy. So those first 10 years you were, it was just you? Yeah, yeah, it was just me. And then she ended up coming along after a while. So, I grew up, like, being spoiled, but then, like, when I got to, like, as I got older

Starting point is 00:07:03 and, like, I started getting into the streets more, you know what I'm saying? I was looking for, like, I was looking for, like, that guidance from the streets, you know what I'm saying? Because my father wasn't there. So, I was kind of, like, looking for that guidance, just trying to, like, figure it out on my own, you know what I'm saying? Because there's only so much that my mother really can do, you know what I'm saying. But, you know, the mother nurtured, she makes sure she did what she had to do.

Starting point is 00:07:21 But I chose, like, the street criminal gang lifestyle at a young age. What was your dad in prison for? He was in prison for, like, robbery, gun charges. My dad, he's a, he's very well known in the city of Asbury Park. He's very well respected. My dad had been home for about, I'll say, 19 years now, probably almost about 20 years going on. Came home. He told me, man.

Starting point is 00:07:45 This is one thing he told me he told me. He said when he came home, he told himself that he was breaking the rear rear rear mirror. And at that moment, I didn't understand what he was saying. He said he broke the rear rear rear mirror, meaning he's not looking back. And I was like, wow, it's no need to look back. You know what I'm saying? Because when you release, it's easy to get back in. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:08:02 It's always easy to get back in. All it takes is one slip up, especially when you're a felon. And you have a jacket and you have a record. They're going to hold you. You're going to be detained. You know what I'm saying? So things like that, it was like, yo, all right. So my dad said he broke the rear rear rear rear mirror.

Starting point is 00:08:15 And that was one of the things that really stuck with me. I was like, wow, I got to break the rare root mirror. It's time to change the narrative this time around because I just came home from doing four and a half years and then came home for six months. They went back for six years. So 10 years of my life was just like going in a flash, like literally, you know what I'm saying? So I had to really like go through it to really like understand, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:08:38 Yeah, why do you think that didn't, what he said didn't resonate with you when you were 10 years old when he came home? Because I still felt like I knew it all. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's easy to always feel like you know it all. Like your first bid, you like, all right, yeah, I know what to do. You'll come home and be like, yeah, I got to do this. I got to do that.

Starting point is 00:08:52 But you, you know, you fall victim to it. you know what I'm saying? And I just felt like I knew it all. I felt like I had it all. I knew it all. I got back out there, had a job. I was focused. I felt like the minute I lost my job, that's when everything started crashing down.

Starting point is 00:09:06 And I went back to the streets. Six months later, I was sentenced to six years in prison. How old were you when your mom told you that your dad was in jail? I was young. And I was too young to understand. But looking back now, we're at pictures. Like, I was, my dad went to Rawaway State Prison, which is one of the most violent jails back then

Starting point is 00:09:26 and also like still now to this day. But I remember seeing pictures of me inside with my dad. They used to wear like street clothes back then in prison. They was wearing street clothes. They had like jewelry on chains and rings and stuff. And he was like posing in the yard. I'm so little. I'm like three years old.

Starting point is 00:09:43 I'm in a yard with him with a basketball in my hand and stuff like that. Like I remember times where my mom used to take me to visit and I didn't like really realize but I was going to, jail to actually see my dad, but I just was too young to really understand at the time, you know? Did kids ever make fun of you for having a dad in jail? No, they never did.

Starting point is 00:10:02 Because most of the kids, they understand what we come from. Like, it's either like their dad went to jail, their uncle went to jail, or their dad simply just not in their life anymore. So it's like, they're like, oh, you know what I'm saying? It was kind of like... This episode is brought to you by Subaru. Go further in a long-range Subaru hybrid with up to 581 miles per tank in the Forrester Hybrid, range, better fuel efficiency, and legendary symmetrical all-wheel drive, standard.

Starting point is 00:10:30 The Subaru Forrester Hybrid. Visit Subaru.com slash hybrid to learn more. Maximum range based on EPA estimated combined fuel economy and a full tank of fuel. Actual mileage and range may vary. Sutopia 2 has come home to Disney Plus. Let's go! Get ready for a new case. We're going to crack this case and prove our decorinous partners of all time. New friends.

Starting point is 00:10:53 You are... Gary Destiny. And your last name? The snake. Dream team. Hit new habitats. Zootopia has a secret reptile population. You can watch the record-breaking phenomenon at home.

Starting point is 00:11:07 You're clearly, working it. Zootopia, too. Now available on Disney Plus rated PG. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla. Smooth caramel maybe.

Starting point is 00:11:22 Or a white chocolate mocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Rappuccino. No drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Normal. What does that tell you about society when you kind of listen to that out loud? Yeah, like, it's just, it's reality. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:11:38 Coming from what we come from, you know what I'm saying? Like, in the inner neighborhood, like, it's like, it's the reality. It's the normal. Like, even though it's like something that's not supposed to be normal, but it's normal because like you'll ask my, like, I say like we're in middle school and I'd be like, yo, bro, your dad coming to Father night, you know what I'm saying? something like that. And he'd be like, no, my dad in jail. It's like, oh, wow, what are you locked up for? Well, yeah, bro. So, you know, people like, some father's there and, you know, some father's not.

Starting point is 00:12:05 But I'm just, I'm fortunate enough to have my dad back into my life, bro. And it's, it means a lot to me. Like, he's really my hero. I look up to him in so many ways. Have you been called Flash your whole life? Yeah. To like 16. Yeah, 15, 16. I named myself Flash. Just like growing up, man, in a gang lifestyle. And, um, and it's, and it's. It stuck to me. It stuck with me. And sometimes I'd be trying to get away from that name. You know what I'm saying? But it's like it's hard because everyone know you by that name. So it don't matter like how bad you try to detach yourself away from that name.

Starting point is 00:12:38 And I'm trying to brand that name now that I opened up in LLC, the business called Flash Fitness. I tried to like step away from it a little bit. But it's like it's always coming back to me. But it's just who I am. What's the connotation behind it? What's it mean? Flash. Like, you see me in and you don't see me. So you were fast, quick on the feet? Yeah, you can say that. Like, I'm fast.

Starting point is 00:12:59 I'm very athletic. I played football, basketball, baseball. But, yeah, I caught myself flash. It's like, one minute you see me and you don't. So I'm like, never staying still. Were you passionate about sports growing up? Yeah, I was until I got into the streets. Why do you think sports didn't keep you away from the streets?

Starting point is 00:13:15 Because everyone that was doing sports was still in the streets. So it was like a follower thing, you know what I'm saying? And just following what your friend's doing. You know what I'm saying? So, like, we're going. go to practice and then after that we might smoke some weed or something or probably just try to do something bad. So it was never like, I was never really like focused in sports.

Starting point is 00:13:35 You know what I'm saying? I can like, I never was really like that focus in sports. Do you think your mom made a good effort to keep you away from the streets? She did. My mother, my mother did. She tried her hardest, but once I leave the house, I go out there. You know what I'm saying? And like this one particular area where we had moved at, like growing up, what we had moved,

Starting point is 00:13:53 it's called Atkins Avenue. which is considered Front Street. And, like, once I moved there, my life changed so much. Because, like, it was nothing but violence around there. And I adapt to it. I went outside and to it. And I'm saying? There was a lot of, like, gang culture, stuff going on.

Starting point is 00:14:08 So my dad wasn't around. Went there, boom. And it was, like, it was everything. You know what I'm saying? I just felt like this is where I belong to at this moment. You know what I'm saying? So that's what it pretty much was. Once people started to talk about your dad and kind of explain to you who he

Starting point is 00:14:25 was, did you want to follow in his footsteps? No, not necessarily because he was more ruthless than me after hearing the stories. Like, after hearing, like, the older people from Asbury, like, around his age, the people that, like, grew up under him, it was like, yo, man, your dad named Jazz? Yeah. Yo, man, he was a bad man, yo, yeah. So I'm like, oh, yeah. And I'm taking in all these stories.

Starting point is 00:14:46 I'm like, damn, yeah, now, he was ruthless. I want nothing like him. You know what I'm saying? But, like, getting caught with a gun, it becomes normal. He got caught with a gun. He went down for a gun. I never really got into like the robbery thing, you know what I'm saying? But most of my charges consist of possession of a weapon.

Starting point is 00:15:01 So like every time I ended up really got locked up was like for possession of a weapon, possession of a weapon like at like different spurts in my life. Why do you think you're drawn to guns? It's just trying to protect yourself, you know what I'm saying? It's easy to die. You know what I'm saying? It's easy to die and it's you could just like, it's just so simple to the point where the most cowardice person can just pull a trigger and kill you.

Starting point is 00:15:22 Like, and they probably don't even mean to kill you. kill you, but if the bullet land the right way, you're done. If it hit the main artery or hit you in the right spot, you're done. So the fear of seeing my friends die at a young age, I first started gangbanging in 2010. I was 16 years old. I caught my first gun charge. I seen two of my closer friends die. And that, like, after seeing their mother's cry, I just never wanted to see my mom cry. And my mom and their mom was friends. Like, they grew up together. So I never wanted to see my mom, like, grieve. Like, she grieved because her friends grieved,

Starting point is 00:16:01 but I never wanted to see my mom cry because I die. So I always wanted to make sure I protect myself. You know what I'm saying? And I always like to, like, stay with a gun. I felt like I was always safe with a gun. This episode is sponsored by Blue Chew, the original brand offering chewable tablets for better sex. Guys, Thanksgiving's coming up.

Starting point is 00:16:19 And while everyone else is worried about stuffing the turkey, you should be thinking about stuffing with purpose. because going into the holidays without Blue Chew is like showing up to Thanksgiving dinner without pants. Technically, you could do it, but it's not going to end well for anyone. Blue Chew's tablets are like a pep talk for your downstairs, stronger, harder, longer lasting. It's like someone gave your manhood a motivational speech and a pre-workout shake.

Starting point is 00:16:48 Personally, I like to think of it as performance enhancement for gratitude season. Hey, that's a good one, right? because nothing says thankful like giving her a reason to cancel her Pilates class the next day. Last time I took one, I swear, my confidence stood up before I did. My pants looked like they were pitching a halftime show. This isn't a supplement. It's an erection resurrection. Guys, this isn't just about performance.

Starting point is 00:17:13 It's about legacy. Or should I say third leg a C. Give her group chat something to talk about this Thanksgiving, especially when they're back on college break. You know when you lay it down right, they're texting about how it got up. So here's the deal. Get your first month of Blue Choo free when you use promo code locked in at checkout. Just pay five bucks for shipping.

Starting point is 00:17:34 That's it. Join Bluechoo's mission to upgrade humanity one thrust of the time. Head to BluCube.com for details and safety info. And huge thanks to Bluechoo for sponsoring the podcast. We love you, Blue Choo. What gang were you affiliated with? I was Neighborhood Crip. And it's one of the biggest cryptos in America.

Starting point is 00:17:52 I'm saying. And that was a part of that. What's the neighborhood aspect of it mean? Neighborhood. It take care of the neighborhood. You know what I'm saying? It's big. I'm saying? It's big. It's a neighborhood in every city you go to. You know what I'm saying? So it's neighborhood. And is that different than being a regular crib? No, it's not different than being a regular crib, but they want of the originals of it. Like, neighborhood is like one of the originals of it. You know what I'm saying? Then you have like other branch-offs, that branch off of neighborhood. And it's like one of the

Starting point is 00:18:22 biggest crypt cartels. Yeah. And how do you get or come across that? How are you introduced to it? It was in my neighborhood already. So the section where we had moved to, it was already out there. So when I went outside, I was going to that. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:18:37 And it became what it was. Is it like the bloods where you're put on like a send-off mission for your first time where you have to like put in work? Yeah. I went through like a like a parole period. But I went through like I had to get a, I had to get a, I had to wait to get put on. You don't get put on right away.

Starting point is 00:18:56 You know what I'm saying? So I had the wait to get put on. I was on like probation. You know what I'm saying? Like, all right, you would have, but, now, man, just hold on real fast until that moment come. You know what I'm saying? And then when that moment finally came,

Starting point is 00:19:09 then it was like, all right, you won't. Tell us about your very first arrest. My first arrest after my friend had got killed, my friend JJ, my friend JJ had got killed in 2010. He died June 30th A day before my birthday My birthday is July 1st I ended up getting caught with a gun

Starting point is 00:19:27 July 7th, 2010 I was 16 years old Right there in that same complex The Asbury Park Village Where I resided at I was out there Police came through And they seen people out there

Starting point is 00:19:42 Hanging around They jumped out I tried to run Couldn't get away I got caught with a gun And this was literally like right after he just like die like a week later. How'd your mom react to that arrest? She was hysterical. Like my mom,

Starting point is 00:19:57 she like, I'm her baby boy. I'm like her only son. I am her only son. So like seeing my mom cry and everything, it's just like it makes me numb. You know what I'm saying? To the point where it's like we was in a interrogation room and they was talking to me. I'm 16 at the time and you know, they cannot talk to you without your parent in the room present. And at the time where I'm in the room and she like crying boo-hoo crying tell him tell him where you got it from tell him where you got it from i didn't raise you like this i didn't raise you like this like and i'm like but i'm i hear her but i taunt her out like i just taunt her out like and i just i wasn't saying nothing like like take me to jail like at this point like because i was so i was so hard like you know what I'm saying I was just so

Starting point is 00:20:41 hard like i ain't i'm hearing her crying but i'm not I taunt her out you know what I'm saying and She's trying to convince me to, like, tell to, like, let it be knowing. And I'm like, nah, mom, like, I'm all right. Like, everything good. I love you. Like, and they took me, they took me a juvenile. Do you wish you told, looking back on it? No, I don't because, you know, everything happened for a reason.

Starting point is 00:21:00 And I was, I still solid on that. You know what I'm saying? That's just like, that's one of my principles. You know what I mean? Like, I knew what I signed up for. I knew I got caught with a gun. I knew what I was doing. So I have to, I have to, like, pay the consequences.

Starting point is 00:21:14 Like, you know what I'm saying? I got to pay the consequences. I got to do what I got to do. If you had a son, he was put in that position, what would you tell him to do? I'll just tell him, son, you made your bed, you got to lay in it. You know what I'm saying? If this is what you chose to do and this is what you want to do, I'm going to be there to support you, make sure you got a lawyer.

Starting point is 00:21:30 I'm going to make sure that you're straight when you're behind a wall. But if this is what you want to get into, then all right, you know what I'm saying? But I'm not going to be like, oh, son, do the right thing and tell, you know what I'm saying? Because by him telling and did him being released, he could potentially be. killed. He become a victim. Why do you think people in your position, people in general, that go to prison, don't think about the heartbreak they caused the parent until afterwards. Like now you could clearly see you're visibly upset about the pain you caused your mom, but you didn't think about it before you committed the action. It took time. It took time. It took time to sit in that cell,

Starting point is 00:22:06 four walls, doors locked, CO telling you everything. Yo, CO, pop my door. It's like, you're deprived of everything. Like, you at your lowest when you're in prison. Like, you know what I'm saying? And It's like, dang, I can't do this. I can't do that. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I did back-to-back bid, so it wore heavy on me. Like, it really wore heavy on me to the point where I was like, you know, I'm tired of this. Like, you're tired of this.

Starting point is 00:22:30 I can't keep going through this. Like, put my mom through this. I miss a 50th birthday. You know what I'm saying? She didn't turn 51, 52. Like, I'm missing, like, real time. You know what I'm saying? And I was locked up during the pandemic.

Starting point is 00:22:44 So a lot of people was dying. during the pandemic. People was getting sick catching COVID. And it's like, you don't know if you're going to see people when they come home. So that was a real eye open for me just knowing like, yo, I got to make sure I do what. I got to do to, like, to be there when it's their time to go. You know what I'm saying? Did they give you bail when you were 16 at the after that church?

Starting point is 00:23:04 No, I didn't have bail. They detained me. They helped me. I was in juvenile for about 90 days. I was in juvenile for like three months, 90 days. And then they gave me house arrest. So I was on house arrest for a year. What was that experience like in juvenile detention in New Jersey?

Starting point is 00:23:20 It was fun. Looking back, like it was fun because all your boys there, you know what I'm saying? It was like a playground. You know how they say like jail could be a wise man college or a foolish playground. Being young at that age going through it and really active in gang, you know, it was fun. Like all your boys there, you're meeting new people from all over Jersey, you know what I'm saying? Or he's from here, he from there.

Starting point is 00:23:45 So it's like, oh, all right. connected, but it was a phase still. Are there gang rivalries and juvenile detention? Yeah, it is. But it's more like cities. So, like, this city don't mess with that city, this town, this town. Or this block don't mess with that block. So it changed.

Starting point is 00:24:00 But, yeah, it's still, like, as far as, like, juveniles, they're still, like, going crazy with the gang thing. Now, was the house arrest a part of your sentence or just pretrial? It was pre-trial. I believe probably was part of my sentence, Sue, at the time. I know once I completed it, I was off. I did, they gave me a year on it. I ended up doing 10 months.

Starting point is 00:24:19 I completed it right there in there where I reside. Actually, where I caught the gun charge at, this is where I was on house arrest at. So I completed it. And were you able to go to school or now? Yeah, I was able to go to school, but I ended up getting kicked out of school. And it was over after that. Why did you get kicked out of school for the gun? No, I got kicked out of school for fighting.

Starting point is 00:24:38 Fighting, rivals from Asbury. I used to just go to school just to fight, like, big fights. It was just like 10 on 10 people fighting, 7 on 7 people fighting. We was having like real riots like fighting in prison. All gang related? Yeah, yeah. Like street gang stuff. Young growing up, it was street gang, gang related.

Starting point is 00:24:58 We were just going to fight. And was the school safe? Is this like outside of school? It was some was inside of school, some was outside of school. So I pretty much, I guess you could say it was safe. But some was in school, some was outside of school, the fights. It's so crazy to think like two people. People could be growing up in the same time period and be an hour and a half way from each

Starting point is 00:25:19 other and have completely different lives. Like in, you know, growing up in Danbury, going to Danbury High School, there was no like gang fights or even fights of that nature. You had your occasional like city rivalry, but nothing to that level. Yeah, because it's small. Like I said, like, it's small what we come from. So like you could be beefing with some money on the next block over and that's how small it is.

Starting point is 00:25:40 But yet that show you how dangerous that city is, you know what I'm saying, when it's like, Asbury Park, it's like top five and like the worst cities in New Jersey. So doing that 10 months at home confinement, are you thinking, man, I don't ever want to get in trouble again? Or what's your mindset? No, I was still like, I was still indulged. You know, like the guys used to come over to the house. I'm on house arrest.

Starting point is 00:25:59 He used to come over, check me out. You know what I'm saying? We're chilling, smoking. I mean, I was like, I was still like in it. Like, I just felt good to be home, but I was still like in it. Your mom didn't want to like forbid them from the house or keep me. Yeah, she did. She did the best she could.

Starting point is 00:26:14 She used to like always get on me like, oh, tell them stop coming over here. But this is where they always at. Like, not even my house. It was like my apartment. Like, they was just like always over there. You know what I'm saying? So she really tried the hardest to get me away, but I just wouldn't go away. You ever try to sneak off a house arrest?

Starting point is 00:26:31 No, no, I didn't because everything was coming to me. Like where I was at. We got at the corner store. The girls was coming to me. Like, everything was coming to me. Whatever I needed was just like coming to me. So it wasn't no need to ever like try to cut it. run. Did you figure out like what your radius was? Like how far you could go. Yeah, I did. I tried

Starting point is 00:26:48 them. I walked down the street a little bit to see like what it go off and never went off because like we like in a complex. So I could walk a certain distance in the complex and still be in that perimeter. So you ever watched that movie Disturbia, Shile Above? No, I haven't seen it. He has the ankle monitor on for the summer and then he's like puts like the flags outside his house to know the perimeter he could go to. It's a good movie. You should see it because his neighbor ends up being a serial killer. Oh, yeah. And he has to, like, keep violating his house arrest to go, like, stop him. It's crazy. And I got to check it out. I got to check it out. Yeah, it's a good flick. Yeah, I'm going to check it out. So after that, you get off house arrest, what happens?

Starting point is 00:27:24 After I get off house arrest, I got caught up again. Dude, that was 2011. 2011, I ended up getting off. Um, 2000, 2011, another one of my friends died. Uh, and I was just out there. I still was just, active, still like, you know, still running around, still like indulging into everything, like, you know, nothing ever happened. And then what happens? I end up getting locked up 2014 for two guns. I got caught with two guns in 2014. How old were you then?

Starting point is 00:27:58 I was, what was I, 18 in? 18 years old. Yeah, yeah. So, 2014 was my first time in county jail. How do you get caught with these guns? What was the case? The case where with the two guns that I had got caught. with. I was in my car. We was at a house party. And I pull up to the house party. I park. I get out.

Starting point is 00:28:20 I go to go to the party. I go inside. Because they were searching at the party. So when I went to go walk inside the party, the person, his dad was searching people that was coming into the backyard. Came in regular. All right. We're chilling back there, drinking, smoking partying. I come out the party and the detectives is leaning up with my car. So when I'm coming out, I hear people saying like, why the police on your car? Yo, I'm like, wait, what? I look.

Starting point is 00:28:47 They're, like, leaning on my car. Like, they're on it. There's three detectives. So I walk up and I'm like, yo, what's going on? Yo, why y'all on my car? They're like, nah, we got a word that we got a tip for an anonymous tip saying that it's guns in his trunk and this car not going nowhere. So I'm like, wait, what?

Starting point is 00:29:07 Now I'm trying to get out of there. I'm getting ready to abandon this car. Don't know what they're talking about. It's not in my name. name, the car is in my dad name. He'd been in prison before he has a record. Now it's getting crazy. So I'm forced to stay now because now outside of 10, they're going to get a warrant.

Starting point is 00:29:24 They're going to get inside this car. And they're going to find these guns that's in the trunk, two loaded handguns in the Trump. I can't let my dad go to jail. He's the breadwinner of the family. He's the one that makes sure that we all eat. You know what I'm saying? 18 years.

Starting point is 00:29:39 I'm like 18, 19, 19 years old. No, I'm getting ready to go to the county. I'm upset. I stayed there. Got the warrant, went inside the car. They found, they popped the trunk. They found two guns. I sat right there and watched them.

Starting point is 00:29:52 Put the handcuffs on me. Sent me off. Who do you think tipped them off? I don't know, bro. Still to this day, I don't know. There was no discovery or anything. No, it was a lot of people out there. This was a house party.

Starting point is 00:30:02 And there was a lot of cars parked out there. I don't know, like, where they got it from. I never seen no discovery on it saying that Anonisman's tip said anything. No witnesses on anything. and I end up playing out to a fight with the 42. Now, I had to have been someone that was in the car with you coming to the party, right? I don't know. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:30:22 You know, they say the ones close to you be the ones who the most to you. So it's like, I don't really know. And I'm upset at myself because it could have been a girl. It could have been someone I was in a car with. Like, I don't know what made, like, maybe they was lying. They could have been lying and still got a proper arrest. Were your fingerprints on the gun? Like how they traced it to you?

Starting point is 00:30:40 No. So they got busted just for having them. in your car. Yeah, and I wasn't even in possession of these weapons. Like, that's crazy. Like, and I also learned third degree constructive possession. I started getting into the law library, learning cases. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:30:55 I started figuring it out. That is called constructive possession. I'm in A, the guns was found in B. I'm in A. I'm not even in B. So how can I be charged with something that's in B? You know what I'm saying? So that was constructive possession.

Starting point is 00:31:09 I ended up learning that later down the line. But at that moment, I ended up, I had to have bells. This was New Jersey had bells. This is 2014. They set my bail at 500,000. That is the Eighth Amendment, assessive bail. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money, bro.

Starting point is 00:31:26 For two handguns, we're talking about just possession. Were those guns used for any crimes? No. There wasn't linked to no shootings or nothing. Serial number scratched or no? I think so. One of them probably had the serial number scratched off. We're not sure, but one of them probably did.

Starting point is 00:31:40 but they set my bail at $500,000. That is too much. That is, in that bracket, $500,000 to a million is attempted murder, murder, arson, rape. It's in them categories. Them is violent crimes. I had a nonviolent crime, just simple possession. It's probably the fact you're a gang member, your dad, a mix of everything. Yeah, so they sat it there.

Starting point is 00:32:01 I sat in the county for about six months waiting, waiting for them to drop it, waiting for the bail to get reducted. They end up dropping it down. 250,000, which is still a lot. $250,000. I end up getting about four cosigners and paying $8,000 and got released. Thanks to my father.

Starting point is 00:32:21 My father played the bell and got the cosonters from family members and I was released. So it's less than 10% you have to put up? It won't. I think it was about 10% or something. They ended up working something out at the time I didn't understand,

Starting point is 00:32:35 but I knew I was being released. Yeah, I just knew I was being released. I'm like, all right, the bell was set. It came down on it and they came and got me. What was your first time in county jail like? Because this is way different than juvenile. Yeah, yeah. It was more intense.

Starting point is 00:32:47 You around older guys. You know what I'm saying? A lot of guys got time in. You know what I'm saying? And it's more mature. You know what I'm saying? There's none of that kids stuff, that little rah-rod stuff. It's more structure.

Starting point is 00:32:57 You know what I'm saying? Being around older guys in prison, it's like, you know what I'm saying? It's structure. They don't play around. It's like, you know, it's real strict. So you just got to fall in line. They teach, they taught me how to, like, when I go to brush of my teeth, Like spitting the toilet, little stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:33:12 You gotta pay attention to details. When you pissing, make sure you flushing the toilet at the same time, because your bunky might not want to hear that. You know what I'm saying? He don't want to hear what's going on. So you flushing while you pissing, you brush your teeth, you don't spit in the sink at all. You spit in the toilet. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:33:28 So it's like little stuff like that, you got to pay attention to details. And I was able to learn that. And you know other stuff, like how to play casino, I'm saying, stuff like that. and chess, learning all that type of stuff. So it was like a learning experience for me. When I got out of prison, one of the first things I did was adopt my dog boon from the Dawes Animal Welfare Society.

Starting point is 00:33:50 And honestly, that moment changed my life. He was my reminder that second chances are real. Then, just over a month ago, I brought home Bella, our new studio pup, also from Dawes. And she's been nothing but love, energy, and personality ever since. Dawes gave both of them a chance. And right now they're giving all of us a chance to help more animals just like them.

Starting point is 00:34:11 From now until December 15th, a foundation is matching every single donation, dollar for dollar, up to $15,000. That means whatever you give instantly doubles, twice the food, twice the medical care, twice the second chances.

Starting point is 00:34:25 And it gets even better. If you sign up to be a monthly donor, that same foundation will give Dawes an extra $100 for every new monthly supporter up to $5,000 total. That means you're $20 a month, could unlock another $100 gift for the shelter. So if you've ever thought about giving back,

Starting point is 00:34:44 this is a moment, this is your opportunity. Whether it's a one-time donation or a small monthly commitment, you're helping save lives. You're helping the next Bella or Boone find their home. Go to dawes.org or hit the link in the description of this episode to donate. Let's give these animals the second chances they deserve because sometimes saving them ends up saving us too.

Starting point is 00:35:05 Casino is the four-card poker, like where you're facing each other. Is that casino or no? Oh, casino is when you're dealing the cards and you got how many people in casino? It's three people. You could play up to three people in casino. And that's when each person get a car and it's like you're playing spades. Oh, I love spades. Yeah, you like spades.

Starting point is 00:35:24 Yeah, dude, I've been looking for people to play with. Oh, yeah. We might can get a game, man. Yeah, I love spades, man. I got to brush up on the memories. I was trying to remember how to play one person spades, like how the cards get cut and stuff. Yeah. We've done like a few skits with it and stuff.

Starting point is 00:35:36 Yeah, two people could play spades. Yeah, but you have to like deal the deck a certain way. Yeah, but like when you get the cards, you sit the cards down, one person pick a card. If he like it, he keep it. And then the next person pick a card. If he don't like it, he sit it down and then he pick up that other car. He can't not take the second car. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:55 So then you're going to take the first card that you see. If you don't like it, sit it to the side. But the second card, you have to take it until all the deck is done. And then you play. Were you guys playing four, five, six out there? Four, five, six. Celo? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:09 I was cracking guys. Yeah, no, yeah, no, that's crazy. I was the only white boy playing Celo. Oh, yeah. It was fun. Five, six. Yeah. Head crack.

Starting point is 00:36:16 Yeah. All the numbers still the same. One, one, one, three, three, three, six six. That's an automatic win. I heard that's a big. That's a big strip. A big street game, right? Yeah, no, it is, bro.

Starting point is 00:36:25 Yeah, people got hurt behind that. Yeah, I've heard some crazy stories. A lot of people got hurt behind that, bro. That's serious, bro. Are, do people still play, like, spades out on the street, too? Yeah, yeah. The people still play spades. I got to come out to a spades game.

Starting point is 00:36:38 Yeah, yeah. You'll go to like, like I said, like a little gathering, a little house party or something. Nothing too crazy. Like a nice little vibe. Yeah. They're playing spades. They're playing cutthroat.

Starting point is 00:36:47 You know how to play cutthroat? No, I never learned. That's like by yourself. I've seen it, but I haven't played it. Yeah. You like, it's spades, but you buy yourself. You collect your own books. Okay.

Starting point is 00:36:55 Yeah. What's the other? Some people play with bags or sandbags and no bags. What's that? There's like a terminology where like if you overbid, I think it's like a, I forgot. There's a different way to play spades, too.

Starting point is 00:37:08 Oh, and then Pinochle was a big one. Yeah, Pinole. That's the one with, like, all the face cards. I see, like, a lot of old heads play that. They take it very serious. Yeah. Yeah, I seen someone get, like, I got messed up bad over that, bro. Tell us that story.

Starting point is 00:37:19 Nah, no. I see some old heads. They sit in there. It's like three of them. They over there, they play. I hear him arguing. They, like, going back and four of arguing. Like, I'm watching TV.

Starting point is 00:37:28 I'm watching Sports Center. Playing no guy. I ain't paying no attention to it. But it got intense. And anything in prison, when you know you in jail, anything get intense, your focus goes straight there. You wait to see what happened next.

Starting point is 00:37:39 You know what I'm saying? It'll be a lot of talk. We wait to see what happened next. So next thing you know, the game was over. One of the guys threw the cards. That's a big no. That's already a sign of aggression.

Starting point is 00:37:50 He threw the cards and I'm watching. He went to his room. He went to his room. The person came behind him and locked the door. Went in there and locked the door. You just hear him hollering and screaming. See you, see oh, oh, ah, banging on the door trying to get out. He was in there punishing him, bro.

Starting point is 00:38:09 Man, blood everywhere, bro. He ain't, like, stab him with nothing, but he was punching on him with his hands. Like, split right here, split right here, like, looking crazy. Like, mad blood out on the floor. The door, the seal opened the door, bust out, hit the cold. All the officers start running in the unit. He was in there. He almost killed him.

Starting point is 00:38:30 Now, in New Jersey County Jail or the gang, how are the gangs operate in there? What's that like politically? They separated. So they got a chance to like, you know, I played the big part in when it came to like the county jail, like how the county jail run operate now. It's like at one moment because the jail was kind of like so big. Like if you own a unit, hypothetically speaking, a unit was like H1. So like if you're on H1 and a cold go off on H1 but a cold don't go off on I1, they don't lock I1 down. But H1 get locked down with a cold get a lot off at.

Starting point is 00:39:03 Now, what they do is they lock everything down now, all that one movement. At first, they wasn't doing that. But when it comes to the gangs, to answer your question, when it comes to like the gangs, they try to keep all the gangs on one unit. So if you Crip, you go where the Crips at. If you blood, you go with the bloods at. If you Mexican, MS-13, you're going over there where they're at, so they could try to control it.

Starting point is 00:39:30 But they can't control the movement, like the movement of when people are you. going to certain places, law library, wreck. Like when guys just like moving, it's hard for them like to control it. So they try to figure out when to do certain moves because they don't want to interact certain gangs or certain gangs. There wasn't any OGs in there pulling up to you and saying like, hey man, you don't want this for your life, you know, you're young, you got a future out of you. Yeah, no, it wasn't.

Starting point is 00:39:54 It wasn't like really no guidance in it. Like, you know what I'm saying? Because like the OGs, nobody was like, at my age, younger, the younger me, I did. I didn't respect the OG. You know what I'm saying? I didn't. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's pride, arrogant.

Starting point is 00:40:09 You know what I'm saying? Not wanna listen, being hard-headed like, like man, get out of here, old head. You're talking to. We run this. It's what we do. You're gonna do what we want when we want. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:40:20 So it's like little stuff like that, you know what I'm saying? Being young-minded and not being open-minded at the time. So that's what it was. And they don't, they don't really be guiding. Like a lot of the older people like, they don't really guide. They don't really guide. You know what I'm saying? They don't, they don't really get out there that really like, but I know why they don't

Starting point is 00:40:38 because the younger generation. Feels like every product claims real protein these days. But real doesn't start on a label. It starts at the source. Like real California milk from California farm families, it's real dairy delivering high quality, complete protein with all nine essential amino acids to help build muscle, give you energy, and keep you satisfied longer. So keep it real.

Starting point is 00:41:05 Look for the seal. Real California milk. Bonjour, compadre. It's the... Priceline negotiator! How do I negotiate so many great travel deals? My greatest gadget. The Price Line app.

Starting point is 00:41:18 It's got hotel deals, flight deals, rental car deals, all of those deals in a bundle. Deals, Game Day deals, concert trip deals. No one deals more deals than Price Line. Hold your horses. There's more.

Starting point is 00:41:30 The app let you filter hotels by name. Neighborhood, vibe, star level, and amenities like pools and spas and beach fronts and... Wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting me up! Light slide! Introducing the new Best Skin Ever Ultra Slim Precision Concealer from Sephora Collection. It's full coverage with a matte finish and perfect for any look. Whether you're building it up for a full glam moment or targeting correction for a more natural vibe.

Starting point is 00:41:58 At only $12, it's great for affordable touchups on the go. Get this new must-have concealer at Sephora or at Sephora.com today. Rachel don't respect them. And this was going on until today. So you get bail. How long are you on bail before sentencing? Oh, I was out on bail. I end up getting out like the end of 2024.

Starting point is 00:42:23 Because when I got locked up was June or 2012. It was like the summer was just getting ready to hit. Are you sure 2024? Oh, no, I'm bugging. I'm bugging, well. Yeah, this is bad. 2014. Okay, that makes sense.

Starting point is 00:42:35 So, 2014 was when I caught the gun charges. And that was June, 2014, I ended up coming home like the end of 2014. So the end of 2014, I ended up coming home. And I was out on bail, chilling, trying to stay focused, chilling. My cousin passed away. My first cousin. Yeah, rest in peace of the star. My first cousin ended up passing away.

Starting point is 00:43:00 He passed away June, 2015. And I was still out on bail. I ended up going back to jail. I caught a terrorist threat charge. I called a terrorist a threat charge. And I went back to jail April of 2015. Why do you think death was always a proponent for you getting into trouble? If you look at your history, every time someone died around you.

Starting point is 00:43:23 Yeah, it was like, I never questioned it. You know what I'm saying? I just always went along with it. You know what I'm saying? I never really like question when like somebody passed away. It's like, dang, like I get numb. You know what I'm saying? Like, it'd be hard to explain sometimes because like a lot of times I'd be in my head about it.

Starting point is 00:43:42 You know what I'm saying? And I'm just now starting to open up and talk about certain things that I never really talked about. So now that I'm opening up now and I'm able to tell my story and tell people the things that I've been through, I'm starting to be like, feel like good about it. You know what I'm saying? Because, you know, life is too. You know what I'm saying? And my cousin passed away.

Starting point is 00:44:03 And that one, that was like a big one for me. Like, yeah, and that was a big one for me. He died January, 2015. I ended up going back to jail. I had violated the bail thing. I caught another charge, terror-rexy threat. That was like April, April of 2015. And I went down.

Starting point is 00:44:22 I never, I never came back home since April of 2015. What was that charge about? What's a terrorist threat? What? Terroristic threat. The terrorist threat. threat was, it was petty, man. Someone lied. You know what I'm saying? And I had a record already. So they already wanted me. Somebody said that I said something that I didn't say, but someone else said

Starting point is 00:44:40 it. And they knew that the someone else said something, but they put it on me. I had the record. They was already on me. They wanted to detain me anyway for being out on bail. And I had a one for my arrest. Police pulled me over in the car. They locked me up. Do you think that you never want to get prison time had you not caught that new charge on bail? Or do you think you would have served prison time? No, I just served prison time because it's like gun charge is like mandatory in Jersey. Like you got a gun charge and you don't go to jail, you're like suspect. You're lucky it didn't become federal.

Starting point is 00:45:10 Yeah, I know. And I think, you know, I think God that, you know, a lot of my charges didn't become federal because I end up getting like after that, I end up getting caught with two more guns. Crazy, man. You like your guns. Yeah, man. Or you did like your guns. Yeah, it's like sometimes I feel like I'm the black sheep.

Starting point is 00:45:29 You know what I'm saying? Like, sometimes I feel like, dang, why me? Why me? Why me? But everything that I've been through on my life, like everything, I always stood tall on it. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I accepted it. Like, you know, some people live in misery.

Starting point is 00:45:43 I never been that type of guy that complain about anything that live in misery. Like, I accept everything that came with my life because it made me a better me. So how much time did they end up giving you for those cases combined? So in 2015, when I went down, I did a fire with a 42. So I end up coming home October 1st, 2019. I did four and a half years. So what's five and a 42 mean?

Starting point is 00:46:04 Five and a 42 mean. Your max is five years and you have to do 42 months in eligible to see parole. That is your stip. Your step is 42 months. So you have to at least serve 42 months in prison in order for them to consider you to be, all right, we're going to give you parole or we might hit you. But the most you can do is five years. So that's like, what, 60 percent about?

Starting point is 00:46:27 Yeah, so the five is like your back number. If you like, it's your lead where if you get in trouble or they feel as though you're not ready, they're able to hold you up to five years. How did you feel about getting a sentence that long at that age? It was like where everyone was getting. So it was like, I want to say it was cool, but it's like, I go to court with some I, they got a gun charge. And I'd be like, yo, what did they give you?

Starting point is 00:46:49 You got a sentence today? Yeah, I got a sentence. What you get? I got a five with a 42. Oh, yeah, I got the same thing. So it was like, oh, all right. We got five with the 42s, like, but we know how much time we got to do. We got to do at least 42 months in order to be eligible for parole.

Starting point is 00:47:05 Yeah, when I was in pretrial detention after I got my bond review, guys are cheering over five pieces like about other drug charges, gun charges. They're like happy, you know, I guess because that's on the lower end. It just, it's nuts. Consider it to what the feds be doing, right? I was in the feds. Yeah, they were given five. I mean, they give it out left and right, you know, five, 10, 15th nuts.

Starting point is 00:47:24 The whole sentencing is nuts. Yeah, man. So you get to New Jersey State Prison, where do they send you? A medium, low, high. No, I went to, um, so they don't have like stuff like that. They just got like different state prisons. So I went to Yardsville, which was like a youth correction facility at the time. Like I went to Yardsville.

Starting point is 00:47:41 So Yarsville was like, well, the young, wild people were at, you got them all over from like, Patterson, North, Camden, Jersey City, like all these different big cities. It's just like a mass of just different people, you know what I'm saying, from all over Jersey. And, you know, went there, started, like, meeting different people. It was like my first experience really, like, in prison. So I'm like, yo, I'm in prison. Like, I'm downstate now. It's just like, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:48:07 This is what all the stories I've been hearing from people that went in prison before. And they were telling me the stories, everything is starting to add up. I'm like, oh, all right, I see what's going on and stuff like that. So, you know, I would just going through the motion. You know what I'm saying? Just trying to stay focused and go through the motion. I end up going to lockup, like I end up getting an STG gang charge. So that's a security threat gang charge.

Starting point is 00:48:30 I end up getting a gang charge randomly. Like when I say randomly, I never expected this to happen. Right after lunchtime, officers come to my door, Lieutenant Sergeant, knocking on my door, they got my face sheet in their hand. And then like step out with your hands in the locker behind your head, step back. I'm like, yo, what's going on? But at this time, you can't talk to nobody. You just got to do what they say.

Starting point is 00:48:51 Came out, put my hands behind my head. They cuffed me, walked me to lockup. So I'm like, yo, what's going on? Like, y'all ain't even, like, giving me an explanation or nothing. Y'all ain't even saying anything. Like, y'all just came and got me. What's going on? Like, three days later, I sat in lockup.

Starting point is 00:49:04 Three days later, because they got up to 72 hours. And I read that inside, like, the grievance thing, they had about 72 hours to bring you your charges to let you know what you're being charged with. And it was an STG gang charge. And I was like, I ain't like, but didn't come to find out other guys that was back there. like a whole little gang sweep of people that was in Yarsville prison.

Starting point is 00:49:26 I just happened to be one of them that was put in. And I'm like, all right. So I went to locker for six months, 180 days. That was like one of the worst times in my life. That's the shoe. Huh? Is that the shoe? That's the shoe.

Starting point is 00:49:38 So what was that like? Serious. The shoe, shower every other day, phone once a week, a canteen once a month. You only get to order $15. Like, you at your lowest. bro, you like, you dehumanized. Like, you ain't even like, they're not even like checking on you.

Starting point is 00:49:58 Nothing. They don't like care about you. They just leave you back there. You just got to do your days. And they gave me six months, 180 days. Out of 180 days, I did 177 days. Would they lay you out a few days early? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:11 Like, I was like, yo, like, what's going on? Like, you know what I'm saying? But I had a visit once a month. My mom came and seen me. Commerce service was once a month. Phone was once a week. shower every other day. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:50:24 It was like, it was hard. It was hard. So in that moment, are you reconsidering gang life in general? No, I still was, I still was in it. You know, I still was in it. Like, I'm still seeing people that I know I'm networking with people from different cities. I'm still in it. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:50:39 I'm seeing guys around my way from my neighborhood. They coming back there. So I was like, I was like still in it. So I end up getting, I end up getting fast forward. I end up getting released from out of there. And I went to another jail, which is called boy. Boarding time. I've heard of that.

Starting point is 00:50:53 Yeah, so Boarding Town was right next to Yarsville. They, like, share, like, the same perimeter. And I went to Boarding Town. I got out. I was focused. I got my GED. I got my GED. 2017.

Starting point is 00:51:08 And did you do the rest of your sentence there? You got kicked out of that. Yeah, I did the rest of my sentence there in Boarding Town. Got out, focus. Got my GED. I went to the camps. That's when you were the Orange. I went to the camps.

Starting point is 00:51:20 And from the camps, I went to the halfway house, and I was released October 1st, 2019. At the campster, they send you on, like, the highway patrol? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's like highway detail. Yeah. Yeah, it's a highway detail job. You're out there picking up trash.

Starting point is 00:51:33 Oh, man. Yeah. Do people stop and... Yeah, people stop. They blow the horns. You might get a girl ride past and flash you. Like, oh my God, free you. And just like, show you something real fast.

Starting point is 00:51:44 You're like, wait, oh, you've seen that, bro? Does anyone, like, throw out food to you or anything? Yeah, yeah. Like, everything, they throw out, like, cigarettes. Like, like, hon, like, take this. Like, hopefully the officer not watching it's something. Like, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, nah, that'd be going on, bro, because I guess, like, they understand, I guess.

Starting point is 00:52:03 Like, you're like, oh, look, look at them in orange, but they locked up. Like, and probably throw a pack of cigarettes out the window. Like, free you. What are the camps like in the state prison? We always hear about the Fed ones. Yeah, the camps, it's pretty laid back. Everybody got a job. Everybody's assigned a job in the camps.

Starting point is 00:52:18 It's laid back. You're just waiting to go to the halfway house. My experience in it was just like just regular chilling. Every day going to work, working out, eating, and the days just flying. And then next thing you know, once you approve, you'll go to a halfway house. What was your game plan when you were getting out that time? At that time? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:38 Just felt like I knew it all. I just felt like I knew it all. I was like, all. I was like, all. I'm ready now. All right, go home. It's time to make it count. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:52:48 I got to do right. I got to do right. And I just felt like I knew it all. at that moment, but then I didn't because once you, once you like actively get out there, it's like everything done back on you. Like, you back into reality. Like, you back into reality. You got to, you have to really make it count.

Starting point is 00:53:05 You know what I'm saying? Were you planning to step away from gangs at that point? Um, not really. Not really. I, nah, I wasn't at that moment coming home 2019. I wasn't, it still was like active, still going on, like going around. but it wasn't like intense how it was when I was 16. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:53:26 Or like growing up from that part, like it was still going on, but it wasn't as severe how it was back then. So when I had came home, it was like kind of like died down. Wasn't nothing really like pretty much really going on in 2019. When you get out of prison, you're getting affiliated, how do you get like brought up to speed of everything that's been going on the last few years in that same neighborhood? Yeah, just from people letting you know what's going on.

Starting point is 00:53:49 It's just like you're keeping the content. while you inside, getting the information to know what's going on, or like soon as you get home, they're like, they put you in and to like feel you in on what it is that you miss, who are new people, because there's always new faces. Like, you know what I'm saying? There's always new faces. So they like, they like bringing you in, they're putting you up to date,

Starting point is 00:54:09 telling you like, yo, yeah, look, this is going on and all right, all right. And just try to like, you know, feel you in. Do they hold you down when you're in prison? No. And that's when they're like, you know, the downsides of it, because it's like only a few, you know what I'm saying? And I'm only speaking from my experience. Like, some of my guys, like, they'll hold it down,

Starting point is 00:54:29 but you can't expect, I learned that you can't expect everybody to hold it down. You know what I'm saying? Because life still goes on when you're in jail. You know what I'm saying? Even though, like, all the stuff that you have did for people while you was out, whether it was like help them out financially, or, like, you said it to be for them, or if something happened to them and you did something,

Starting point is 00:54:50 to the person that happened to them, like, you're expecting that person to be there for you when you're incarcerated. But eventually when you get incarcerated, they tend to forget about you. And, yeah. What about when you get out? Do they hold you down then? Give you a care package or anything? Yeah, very few.

Starting point is 00:55:05 Very few do, you know. But I try to look forward to it. If it happens, it happens. Like, if it happens, like, if I see somebody like, oh, yo, yeah, I miss you, yo. Give you $300 out of their pocket. Like, yo, huh, man, take this, yo. I'm going to hold you down, man. Make sure you are good to see you.

Starting point is 00:55:20 you home, stay focused, but I don't look forward to it. But they, you know, a lot of people expect that. Like coming home, they expect to get something from people that they did things for. What was your dad's reaction to you coming home from that first sentence? Did he try to sit down with you and put you on a better path? Yeah, he did. My dad did everything he could. He helped me get a car.

Starting point is 00:55:41 I came home, got a car. I got a job. I was focused. He was there to assist me in anything I needed to help with. I was doing good. I really was actually doing good. to like stay focused, stay on that straight and narrow path. And then, you know, one thing led to another.

Starting point is 00:55:57 Something went down. And then I landed back in jail for six years. How do you end up back in prison? So I end up going back to prison for two guns. It was a shootout in one of my neighborhoods. Rest of peace of my friend, my friend died that night. He ended up getting killed. And I ended up getting locked up four hours later after the homicide.

Starting point is 00:56:18 The police had pulled me over in my being done. and they found two guns. And one of the guns that was from the crime scene was the shell cases was in the car. So I was linked to the shooting. So did they get you with attempted murder? Yeah. Or is it actual murder because he died? No.

Starting point is 00:56:39 So. Accessorated murder? Yeah. I was charged with an attempt, attempt murder at first. But then the charge ended up getting dismissed because two witnesses that I had telling on me, they both passed away. That was big. Were your parents sick when they found out you got arrested again?

Starting point is 00:56:56 Yeah, it was. It was upset at me. It was upset at me. And how are you feeling? You know, you've just rebuilt your life. You got your car. You got a job. You know, things are going well.

Starting point is 00:57:05 I felt like I let the people down that love me the most. So the people that want to see me win, the people that wanted me to be great, I felt like I let them down at that moment with me getting locked back up all over again. On top of that, losing one. of my close friends that very same night. Why do you think you needed to be there that night? I was there just to be there. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:57:30 I was just like out there just to be out there. Dice game. Dice game, bro. But I don't roll dice. You know what I'm saying? I'm not into it, but this is what the newspaper. This is what the discovery say. So if this the narrative that they're painting, so they're talking about it was a

Starting point is 00:57:49 It was being a dice game. Dice game happened. One thing led to another and someone died. How old are you during that second arrest? 20? No, 21. Yeah, I don't know. I was like, I know jail took my whole 20, so I was probably like, I got locked up.

Starting point is 00:58:09 I was 24. I was 24. Because I just got released when 2019, I was 24 and 19. And then now I'm 31. So I just did six years. So I was 24, yeah. Oh, I'm 30, but about the same age. Yeah, and, um, but jail took my whole 20s.

Starting point is 00:58:25 And a lot of stuff happened so fast, like, it'd be hard to remember sometimes because a lot has happened, but I knew that jail ended up taking my whole 20s, like, in a flash just from back to back beds. Literally a flash. Yeah, yeah, word. So you get arrested for that shooting at your back in county jail, fighting the charges. Yeah, back in the county jail. No bail this time?

Starting point is 00:58:46 They detained me. This in New Jersey. They didn't have any bells. I got detained, of course. I got an intense record with handguns. They detained me. I sat in the county jail for three and a half years fighting my charge. Three and a half years?

Starting point is 00:58:59 Three and a half years. I sat in the county jail fighting my charge. Why did it take so long? Because it was linked to a murder. So the guys that they did have charged with the murder, we was like all together as far as like co-defendants. The case got superseded. So we were like co-defendants now.

Starting point is 00:59:15 And it was like a waiting game. Like we'd go to court, And in New Jersey, they got a habit of doing that. I've seen it happen with like many cases where you got an intense case and you'll go to court. They're just postponing. Like, they just ask for like more time, more time. And it's like it become normal for them to do this.

Starting point is 00:59:36 You know what I'm saying? And I sat in the county for three and a half years just fighting my case. I had a great lawyer at this moment. You know, I was feeling comfortable. I felt like, you know, everything was doing good. Everything was going all right in the case, which it was, you know what I'm saying? And then just to get the news where I had two people telling on me, which had led me to get the attempted murder charge now that they had passed away to natural causes,

Starting point is 01:00:06 it's like I'm now, I'm just stuck with a gun charge because the attempted murder had got dropped. So I was blessed at that moment in my life when I realized that, I was like, I know God got a plan for me. I knew that. Like, it was just more to it. You know what I'm saying? Because, like, it's no coincidence. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:00:26 There's no coincidence. It's like I knew I had a second chance at doing something right this time. And once I got sentenced on that case, these gun charges and then coming home now, it's just where I'm at. Was there a chance you would have got off if those individuals never told on you?

Starting point is 01:00:42 I probably wouldn't be sitting here with you right now if they would still be alive because, you know, going to trial, and then, you know, rolling the dice, just, you know, taking that chance. But they was coming with some pretty extensive numbers due to my background and everything that I've been through. They was already like, they was on me. They was on me already. So they was trying to give me some, like, some serious time.

Starting point is 01:01:04 Did you prefer the county or the actual state prison? The county was like all my boys there. It was like, once again, it was fun. Everyone from the neighborhood in there. We all on one unit. You know what I'm saying? But when you get down to prison and you outside your comfort zone, meaning so many different people from different walks of life in different cities of Jersey,

Starting point is 01:01:26 it's like you got to be more strict. You got to be more on point. But the county, it was cool. So what was this sentence? How long did they give you? They gave me a nine with a four and a half month step. So four and a half year, four and a half year, four and a half year step. So I had to serve at least 48 months in order to see.

Starting point is 01:01:46 parole. And it sounds like by the math that you actually were able to see parole at that point. Yes. Yeah, but I ended up getting hit also. They gave me an 18-month hit on top of that. So all together, I served 72 months. I did 72 months. I did six years.

Starting point is 01:02:02 Now, you went into this sentence with a different mindset. Yes. More mature, more focus, more like, it was like, I knew my growth, you know what I'm saying? And after this one right here, like, I realized, I realized, I realized, like my potential, my growth, my worth, you know what I'm saying? And I was like, it was to the point where when that sentencing, I wrote a letter and I got up to speak in front of the judge and everybody because I was tired of being that kid where you go upstairs in the courtroom, you get nervous and you don't be talking.

Starting point is 01:02:34 You just let them say everything and they be telling lies. You know what I'm saying? They get up there. They get into the tie of that. They writing the transcript down. And the stuff they're saying is not true. This is not who you are. It's just what they have on paper.

Starting point is 01:02:46 So I told myself, I'm like, yo, as sentencing, when I get up here, I got to speak. You know what I'm saying? It took me a minute to write it, but I had to break that ice. And that was big for me. Were you staying away from prison violence, gang activity, that second bid? No, I was still in it due to the fact that I lost my close friend that same night. So the people that had something to do with my friend, I was angry, upset, in prison, and I was trying to fight everyone and everybody.

Starting point is 01:03:17 Give us one of those fight stories from... Oh, man. I'm undefeated. Undefeated? Yeah, I'm undefeated there, man. Damn, I don't even know where to start. I'm going to take you out there by the riot. We had a riot.

Starting point is 01:03:28 First Mammoth County riot ever. And they separate, like, the units. So we have, like, one unit, a wreck yard, and another unit. But this rec yard, both units get to use it at different times. So it would be, like, in the morning. This unit have the yard And then in the afternoon The next unit have the yard

Starting point is 01:03:49 One day So we're next to They have us next to these guys That we do not like at all So it's like all crips on one unit All bluzz on another unit And every day we got a seat Ever through the glass

Starting point is 01:04:01 Niggas is sticking up Middle fingers Going off Arguing through the glass Everything There's one particular day When we came outside for yard The rec yard

Starting point is 01:04:12 Their door was on like their door was unlocked when we came out. It was over after that. Once we realized the door was open, we all got together, we all got ready. It was about 14 of us. Everyone ran next door. It was crazy. You think that was intentional?

Starting point is 01:04:29 I don't know. Still to this day, I don't know. I don't know how that door ended up being open, but it was open. We got an opportunity that we've been waiting for for a long time. And are you guys just using fists or are their weapons? Yeah, it was all fist. We all went over there. It wasn't no weapons or anything.

Starting point is 01:04:43 Everybody went over there. Fist, we went over there, and it was over, man. Tables being flipped, trash cans being thrown, microwaves, everything. It was just crazy. It was a riot. We had a, like, real riot. What happened to you guys after that riot? Everyone went to lock up.

Starting point is 01:04:59 COs came through, mace and people. People got mace. They went back, ran a camera's back scene. Everybody that was involved. Everyone went to lock up, and we got street charges, like fourth-degree rioting or something. Oh, they hit you with street charging? Yeah, we got street-chargers. So did you get extra time or they dropped it?

Starting point is 01:05:16 It ran it dropped it. It like ran currant because the real charge override that. So it's like it get ran concurrent inside. So I wasn't tripping about it. I actually was excited because this was the opportunity that I was waiting for for a long time to happen to go next door to fight them. You know what I'm saying? And it just happened. So I don't regret any of that.

Starting point is 01:05:36 Actually, I don't regret anything in my life because it made me a better me. So everything that I've been through like now, like where my mind that now, where my mind that When it comes to like the youth, the younger generation, I try to guide them the best as possible because at a young age I've seen a lot. I have done a lot. So, you know, I just want to be there to, like, you know, guide them in certain ways.

Starting point is 01:05:57 So this last prison sentence when you get to the end of it, what's your mindset before you get out? And how does it differ from when you got out the first time? Yeah, this time it was like, it's no more like back to what my dad says. It's time to break the rear view mirror. And he also told me that again. He like, son, said, I know what you're going to do when you get out here, man, but they used to hear it in my voice.

Starting point is 01:06:18 Like, when I used to talk to my mom and dad on the phone and I'm talking to family members, they could take ahead of growth in my voice by the things I was saying. Like, you know what I'm saying? But, like, you know, when you're in prison, somebody would be like, yeah, man, I ain't going out there to mess with them. Come home messing with them. You know what I'm saying? So it's easy to tell somebody something in prison and then you just like hold, contradict everything you said and go out there and fall right back into it.

Starting point is 01:06:41 But for me, this time around, I knew my way. I knew I couldn't give my energy to certain things and certain people anymore. I couldn't be in these certain areas anymore because I outgrew it. You know what I'm saying? I grew certain things that once was fun to me, once that I really used to like to do. So I was like, nah, I can't be doing that no more because I ain't regular. You know what I'm saying? So that's the mindset I got now moving forward to this point.

Starting point is 01:07:06 Like, a lot of people don't even see me. I don't like, you know, and that book came through for me, man, 40 laws of power. You know what I'm saying? I studied it. And lock up, I studied it, kept going over it. You know what I'm saying? It just always... Flowing ad budget on metrics that look great,

Starting point is 01:07:21 till the CFO sees them, that's bullspend. And marketers are calling it out in... Dashboard Confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bullspend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more.

Starting point is 01:07:40 Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign, Terms and Conditions Apply. Pool days call for cookouts and lots of laundry. This Memorial Day at Lowe's, save $80 on a Charbroil Performance Series 4-burn or gas grill. Now just $199. Plus, get up to 45% off select major appliances to keep dishes, clothes, and food fresh. Having fun in the sun is easy with us in your corner.

Starting point is 01:08:10 Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Val-to-527. While supplies last. Selection varies by location. See associate or blows.com for details. This is a Bose moment. It's 10 blocks from the train to your apartment door. 10 basic, boring city blocks until...

Starting point is 01:08:27 The beat drops in Bose clarity. Streetlights become spotlights as you strut down the sidewalk, your own personal runway. With Bose, you get every note, every baseline, every detail, just as you should. Those 10 blocks, they could be the best part of your day. Your life deserves music. Your music deserves Bose. Find your perfect product at Bose.com. I was just trying to figure out different ways to, you know,

Starting point is 01:08:52 stay grounded. What was an inmate you encountered over the course of that prison sentence that really kind of resonated with you, his story and advice he gave you? It was an older head. It was an older guy. So when I got the prison, I started surrounding myself around older people that had time. One old head that I was talking to, he had 30 years.

Starting point is 01:09:12 had 30 years and I was 30 at the time. I'm like, he got my whole life in. And he's talking to me like, we bonder. We having a real relationship, like a real conversation. And he's like, yo. So I'm like, dang it. Then I'm in another one that had like 23 in. Another one that had 27 in.

Starting point is 01:09:29 And I used to be looking at them. I used to be just studying them like listening to the things they're saying. And I'm like, yeah, man, this ain't it. Like, nah, this ain't it, man. Like, I got, I got friends right now to this day that's not coming home. Like, they're waiting for an appeal. They down Trenton State Prison. But, like, people that I grew up with, like, that I was, like, used to eat with,

Starting point is 01:09:50 everything. And it's like, dang, they got life. I easily could have got life. You know what I'm saying? Like, so after, like, speaking and building with, like, older, older men and getting a wisdom from them, it was like, yeah, man, it's time for a change. On top of everything that I used to talk to my mom and them about, but they used to know that, hearing it in my voice and things I used to say, they used to be.

Starting point is 01:10:12 be like, yeah, nah, we know, like, especially my mom, and she's like, yeah, I know. So, like, this time coming back around, they've seen it. I took action. When you got out, did you renounce gang life? Nah, I actually didn't, like, but I'm Muslim. So, like, a lot of people that I was just in prison with, they know I'm Muslim. Like, the gang guys, they know I'm Muslim. So I be trying to, like, detach myself away from it in so many ways, but it's always coming back.

Starting point is 01:10:38 It's like, what is it that a person got to do to really? really get away from it. You know what I'm saying? Like how to like really get away from it? And sometimes I ask myself that. You know what I'm saying? I asked myself that sometimes like, all right, because you can't do both in Islam.

Starting point is 01:10:53 Being Muslim, you cannot be both. You know what I'm saying? And that's called a hypocrite, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, all right, the gang life is watered down. Like, meaning, like, it's no real love and loyalty anymore because people have friends that have friends that have friends. And also the back door is wide open. The back door is, you know,

Starting point is 01:11:11 is somebody doing something to you close to you. Or the back door would be somebody that you, that you cool with, but they cool with somebody you're not cool with. You know what I'm saying? So, like, how you're going to be my friend when you mess with this person that I don't mess with? But your friend will could potentially backdoor you, set you up and get the person that don't like you.

Starting point is 01:11:36 So, like, when they come to the gang stuff now in 2025, like what's going on now? It's like it's just watered down to the point like it ain't really no like love and loyalty there like how it was back then if it ever really was. You know what I'm saying? So I try to like detach myself away from it in so many ways. But it'd be like it'd be coming back. Why is it so hard to detach? Like why can't you just say, hey, I'm done.

Starting point is 01:11:59 I'm not this anymore. No, they know that. This was things that like they know. But we created like outside of like gang lifestyle. We created like a family. You know what I'm saying? And not in a negative way because you can still deal with somebody in a positive way. Now it's like I'm doing things for the community of Asbury right now and try to like put on.

Starting point is 01:12:21 Now I mean, rather we like feeding the homeless or sheltering the homeless or just simply doing community cleanup. You know what I'm saying? So I'm trying to do stuff like that to show them now. It's like it's another way. Do you feel like you've had to separate yourself from some people? Absolutely. Absolutely. And that was one of the biggest things that I had to do.

Starting point is 01:12:40 you're going to outgrow some friends. And that was one of the things I had told myself while being in prison. Like, you know what I'm saying? You can love somebody from a distance. Being that like, yo, I love you, bro. Yeah, anything good is all love. We're not beefing anything. We don't have to hang around every day.

Starting point is 01:12:54 Like, I don't got to call you every day. You don't got to call me every day. We don't got to tell every day. But it's all love. It's all love. But sometimes you're going to outgrow old habits, old friendships. You know what I'm saying? And there's no need to hold on the dead weight.

Starting point is 01:13:07 And that's one of the things I always remind myself, like, you know what I'm saying? I got a lot of few like positive information. I always sell myself like one day at a time, things like that. So it's like, all right. I mean, you're the bro. Like, I mean, I love you. But I love you from a distance. We don't got to hang together every day.

Starting point is 01:13:22 You don't got to call me when something happened to you because I'm not that person. I used to be that person where I'm so loyal. I'm so loyal to the point where I, you will call me and you tell me somebody did something to you. And I'm like, yo, come on. Let's go. Like, let's go right now. You know what I'm saying? And I realized that being loyal to someone or something that's not loyal to you, you only hurting yourself.

Starting point is 01:13:47 And you hurting your family also because they're the ones that depend on you. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, dang, I sacrificed so much with this gang shit. It never benefited me. Like, it never benefited me at all. You know what I'm saying? And like, that's what it really was for me. Like, it's like, it's over for it.

Starting point is 01:14:05 You know what I'm saying? It's really over for it. Do you have Survivor's guilt at all? Survivor's guilt? Yeah, because a lot of your friends passed away along your journey. Nah, I don't got no survivor's guilt. Like, I just know that, you know what I'm saying? Some things are wrong place, wrong time, and I probably die.

Starting point is 01:14:21 I could have probably been dead if I can't go to jail. You know what I'm saying? Some of my friends that was out there that did pass away, like, you know what I'm saying? If I ain't go to jail, I'd probably be, like, down-sake prison or something. I probably would probably have already been there if I felt like jail saved me also. How do you view death now, now that you're older? it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, like, definitely would come with the violence.

Starting point is 01:14:42 And, like, all my friends that passed away, like, they was, like, they was gang, you know what I'm saying? So, they didn't really, like, die for nothing. You know, some people would be like, oh, yeah, he was a good kid, he died for nothing. But it was, you know what I'm saying? So, that's, like, pretty much what it was, you know what I'm saying? It's like, dang, yeah, man, boy, you know, life goes on, so you just got to, you got to stay focused and try not to be, like, we become a victim.

Starting point is 01:15:05 What did you get into for work when you got out of prison this? last time. This last time. Yeah, I know you started your own business, but was there something in between to keep you out of trouble? Yeah. So one of my brothers, they worked as a dumpster driver. And he was like, yo, my job hiring, man, you want to dump the trash this and that?

Starting point is 01:15:23 I'm like, yeah, I'm already physically fit for it. I was like, I'm going to treat it like a workout. So I jumped on the back of the truck. He got me a job. I went to go holl at the boss. Looked him right in his face like, look, man. I just came home from prison, man. Like this is the opportunity I need right here.

Starting point is 01:15:38 man, I love to be a part of your company. I want to work for you, man. I'm showing up every day. You ain't got to worry about me calling out. I'm coming to put in that work. And he looked, and he's seen the seriousness in my face. He said, man, you got the job. It was right then and there.

Starting point is 01:15:52 And I've been doing that ever since. And now you're starting to build your new business. Yeah, yeah. So I got to my Flash Fitness LLC, open up the business. And I, like, I train clients on the side and stuff like that. And I also do, like, Instagram, Rails, showing different guys, different workouts,

Starting point is 01:16:07 and just giving out different tips and stuff on how to build, like, fit and stay fit. What advice would you give to someone that's getting out of prison and kind of wants to remove themselves from gang life and go on a different path? Just be you, you know what I'm saying? Stop following what everybody's saying. Like, you know what I'm saying? I mean, because a lot of people fear of change. You don't have to fear of change.

Starting point is 01:16:28 Just figure it out what it is that you want to do and just try to get away. You know what I'm saying? Go out there and move with a purpose because it's easy to go back. You know what I'm saying? And it's easy to get caught up. They don't really love you. You already know that. You went to jail.

Starting point is 01:16:42 None of the bros held you down. Nobody was there for you. They left you there. You come back home. You go back into it. The fool is you. What advice would you give your teenage self before you ever joined a gang?

Starting point is 01:16:54 What would you say to him? Damn. Why was you a follower? You know what I'm saying? Why you was following? You know what I'm saying? When you were a great leader, like, why would you follow you?

Starting point is 01:17:05 You know what I'm saying? just, it wasn't, it wasn't for you, man, but it wasn't for you. I just tell him, man, you was a follower, man, but it wasn't for you. So that's about it. How's your relationship with your parents now? It's great. They love me, man. My parents, man, they been married for 17, 18 years.

Starting point is 01:17:24 Happy I'm home, doing good, doing everything I said I was going to do. They're proud of me. And I just want to be there for when it's all sudden done, man. I said, no more missing family birthdays, celebrations. and all type of stuff. That's awesome, man. Well, Flash, I appreciate you coming on the show today, man. Yeah, thank you for having me, man.

Starting point is 01:17:42 Yeah, thank you, man. Yeah, man, thanks for bringing the energy. And we'll have the link to your social media all in the description this episode. Yeah, I appreciate it, bro. Keep staying on the right track, bro. You're doing your thing, man. Yeah, this is big for me, man.

Starting point is 01:17:54 I appreciate being here first time in Connecticut. I love everything, man. Yeah, locked in. Locked in always.

Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a Crip Inside New Jersey Prisons — The Truth I Never Told | Jahquan Allah

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.