Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a D1 College Quarterback — Then Got 65 Years in Texas Prison | Damon West

Episode Date: March 15, 2026

Damon West was a Division 1 college quarterback with a promising future ahead of him, but a growing meth addiction sent his life into a downward spiral that ultimately led to a 65-year sentence in the Texas prison system. In this episode of Locked In with Ian Bick, Damon shares the shocking story of how drugs, crime, and bad decisions destroyed his life and landed him behind bars. He opens up about the brutal reality of Texas prisons, the mistakes that cost him everything, and the mindset that helped him eventually turn his life around. _____________________________________________ #ianbick #lockedin #lockedinpodcast #damonwest #texasprison #lifesentence #prisonstory #truecrime _____________________________________________ Connect with Damon West: https://damonwest.org/ _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 First Time Facing Prison: The Moment Everything Changed 01:02 Troubled Childhood & The Downward Path to Crime 03:57 Addiction, Crime & Hitting Rock Bottom 05:01 Sentenced to Life: Entering the Texas Prison System 06:01 What to Expect in Prison & Advice Before Going In 07:40 The Coffee Bean Story That Changed My Life 10:12 Arriving at a Level 5 Maximum Security Prison 11:01 Earning Respect Inside Prison 12:52 Personal Growth Behind Bars 13:36 Finding Purpose Through Leadership in Prison 14:27 Helping Other Inmates: Tutoring & Giving Back 16:01 Changing Prison Culture & Bringing Hope Inside 19:09 The Parole Hearing That Changed Everything 22:01 Life After Prison: Adjusting to Freedom 24:02 Rebuilding Life After Release 26:11 Becoming a Motivational Speaker After Prison 29:00 How “The Coffee Bean” Message Went Global 32:01 The Hidden Struggles After Prison 35:41 From Prisoner to College Professor 38:31 Inside the Prison System: Staff & Reality 41:11 Prison Animal Programs & Rehabilitation 42:42 Why Prison Reform Matters 44:00 How Background & Environment Lead to Prison 46:34 The Real Causes of Crime 50:59 The Power of Hope in Prison 53:32 Prison Violence & Survival Tactics 56:42 Adjusting to Society After Prison 01:01:00 Ending Violence Inside Prisons 01:03:09 Keys to Success on Parole 01:07:00 Addiction Recovery After Prison 01:12:15 Losing Yourself & Finding Purpose Again 01:16:18 Advice to My Younger Self 01:23:28 Staying Accountable After Prison 01:26:43 Final Message: Hope & Redemption Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You can't live in general population. They just don't want you to escape. They don't want you to get out. They want to break you when you get there. Do you think about how different it would have been if you didn't fight? This guy was going to in the showers one night. My cellmate told me about it, gave me the jump on it. He also gave me a fan motor to beat this guy with, and I go to the shower that day, and I ambushed this guy coming to...

So how do you not let a moment like that alter who you are as a person? You got three options. You can fight. You can become someone's punk in there. Basically, they'll pass you around and have something with you. Or you can pay for protection. Damon West was a Division I college quarterback with this entire future ahead of him, but a meth addiction sent his life into a spiral that ended with a 65-year sentence inside the Texas prison system. Today, he's here to tell the story of how it all went wrong and how he's.

survived it. I grew up in Port Arthur, Texas, which is down in southeast Texas, right where Louisiana and Texas touched on the Gulf Coast. Little blue carl town, a little refinery town. Came from a great two-parent home. My story, you know, the jury that heard my case, my case was on May 18, 2009. So on May 18, 2009, the jury in my case, it's an organized crime case. I'm the ringleader of a bunch of other meth addicts breaking in the houses all over Dallas. They call these burglaries the Uptown Burghries. They called me the Uptown Burglar. The jury heard a story about Damon West, this guy that had it all. Grew up in this little Southeast Texas town, came from a great two-parent home, you know, star quarterback in high school, Division I, College quarterback in University of North

Texas. An injury derails my life in 2006 against Texas A&M. I got injured and I never got to play college football again. And after that injury, I started getting into drugs. Cocaine. XSE, but I was a functional addict. They heard about when I graduated college and I went off to work in the United States Congress, worked for a guy running for president, and then I worked on Wall Street. I was a broker for UBS,

Union Bank of Switzerland. And in 2004, working at UBS in Dallas, another broker introduced me to meth for the first time. And man, once the introduction of meth to my system, the wheels were off. I was instantly hooked, just like that. Give up everything that I drug. My job, my home, my car.

my savings account, my family, my tethering to God. In 18 months, I went from working on Wall Street to live on the streets. And then I was homeless and I became a drug addict. I became a thief. And then I became the ringleader of an organized crime crew. And when I say organized crime, it's kind of a loose term. I mean, that's the charge I got crime with, but it was just a bunch of meth heads breaking into houses, right? I mean, there was a little organization to it. I was the guy was picking out the houses and stuff like that. But the burglaries were serious. And I look back. at it now because when I broke into my victim's homes, I didn't just steal property from my victims. I stole their sense of security. And Ian, that's gone, man. I can't replace it and give it back to them. The burger's going for three years. And on July 30th, 2008, the Dallas SWAT team takes me down,

traumatic SWAT team rate. They take me to Dallas County Jail. They booked me in. The bond is set at $1.4 million. It's an unreachable bond for a dope fiend. And on May 18, 2009, the jury has heard the whole case. And, man, I can feel it. either pores in. I mean, they're just like, they're looking at this guy that had it all and threw it all away or on drugs, right? Every opportunity in life you can ever imagine, you know, it's Texas, high school football, college football. And at the end of the long six-day trial, the jury deliberated for 10 minutes. Man, bad sign for the guy at the defense table. They brought me back in and they read my sentence out loud. And Ian, it took my breath away when the judge said, Damon Joseph West,

you are hereby sentenced to 65 years in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. And 65 is life in Texas. They stopped calculating time on time sheets at 60. So my first felony conviction ever, and I got life in prison for engaging organized criminal activity in Dallas, Texas. But, you know, even though I thought that was the end of my life that day, it was the beginning of a new one. I didn't understand at the time. I mean, like whenever you got sentenced, when you had sent to prison, you thought it was over, right? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, because how do you put that back together? I mean, I thought it was over when they read the guilty verdicts. Yeah. Because you just, there's so much unknown and you lose really your sense of freedom at that point. You lose it when you get arrested, but it's even more so when you're guilty. Yeah, I mean, and you start thinking about the thing, the fear, the fear in your head about things she'll never get to do. You know, you've heard all these stories, you know, it's some of them are true, man.

Like, you know, I heard, you know, it's hard to get a job when you get out of prison. You know, you can't vote when you get out of prison. these are the things I was thinking about when I got sentenced to life in prison. After the trial was over, my mom and my dad got a visit with me. They gave them one last visit with me. And my mom makes me a promise two things to her. She's like, Damon, promise me when you go to prison, you're not going to get in one of these white hate groups, one of these Aryan brotherhood type of gangs.

Promise me you won't get any tattoos while you're in there. So, I mean, that's why I don't have any ink on me, man. So she said, no gangs, no tattoos. Come back as the man we raised her. don't come back at all. I don't know. I'm going to do this again. I've never been to prison before, and everybody in county jail is telling me while I'm waiting on the prison bus, you have to get into a gang. The part of prison you go to in Texas when you get a life sentence is a special kind of prison you have to go to. It's a level five prison. It's the highest

your level there is. It's the equivalent to, and the federal system would be a USP. And lifers in Texas, there's a custody level law in Texas that if you get a life sentence, you have to live with other lifers only. You can't live in general population. They just don't want you to escape. They don't want you to get out. They want to break you when you get there. So everybody's telling me you have to get into a gang, except for one guy, this older, black, Muslim guy named Muhammad. And Muhammad's a career criminal. He's been in and out of prison's entire life. He's one of those guys, you know, when you think about it, I'm in county jail. He's black, I'm white. The code in there says we're not supposed to talk to each other anyway, you know.

He's older, I'm younger. We don't have a lot in common. He's Muslim. I'm a Catholic. Like, In what world are we talking to each other, but he sought me out, right? And I think the point about this, what I'm about to share is that the messengers in life can come from anywhere in life. And messengers don't always look like you. They don't come from the same background as you, but that's why they're the messenger. They bring a different mess from a different place. And so Muhammad is the guy in county jail. He's telling me about what prison is going to be like.

And he's telling me, you know, it's all about race. He said, when you walk in the door, the race runs everything in there. race is king all the gangs are built around races you're a white guy the white gangs get the first dibs on you if you survive the white gangs you'll fight the black gangs if you survive all this you earn the right to walk alone he's telling me things like the strongest man in prison always walks alone you know you don't have to win all your fights you got to fight all your fights these things that sound motivational and good but man when he's telling me he's back 2009 i'm looking back at this guy like a deer in headlights all those violence and terror about to walk into

And that's when he's like, hey, let me, let me break this down for you a different way. He said, I want you to imagine prison as a pot of boiling water. He said, anything we put into a pot of boiling water will be changed by the heat and the pressure inside the pot. He said, I'm going to put three things in the pot of boiling water and watch how they change. A carrot, an egg, and a coffee bean. So here's where I first heard the story at the coffee bean. It was the summer of 2009 in a jail cell in Dallas County Jail. 10 years before John Gordon and I write a best-selling book in 2019 called The Coffee Bean.

So he starts off. He said, hey, first things first. If I put a carrot in the pot of bowl and water, what happens to the carrot? I'm like, the carrot's going to turn soft. He said, that's right. He said, but the carrot went in the water hard and firm. But the water, the prison turned the hard carrot, soft, mushy, weak. You don't want to be a carrot.

He said, what about the egg? What happens to the egg in the pot of bowl and water? I'm like the egg is going to turn hard, like a hard-boiled egg. He said, that's right. He said, the egg has a shell that protects on the outside. But inside the shell, the soft liquid core, the yolk, the heart. The heart can become hardened. He said, now if your heart becomes hardened, you become incapable of giving or receiving love.

And he said, if you're incapable of giving or receiving love in the world you're going into, you don't come back as some of your parents recognize. Then he asked me, he said, what about the coffee bean? What happened to the coffee bean in the pot of boiling water? And I didn't happen to answer for him. on that one in. I didn't know what happened to a coffee bean in a pot of blowing water. And that's when Muhammad shared me

one of the most important and transformational messages I've ever received in my life. He said, if I put a coffee bean in that same pot of blown water we call prison, he said, now you've got to change the name of the water to coffee because the coffee bean. The smallest of the three things, small like you, had the power to change

the entire atmosphere inside that pot because the power's inside the coffee bean, just like the powers inside of you. And he said everything else in life, is changed by the water's in life. Carrots are changed by the water, eggs are changed by the water, but not a coffee bean.

The coffee bean is the only thing that it will change the water because it is the change agent. And the last thing he said to me before I left county jail on a prison bus, he said, be a coffee bean. And, you know, look back on it now. You know, in 2009,

the summer 2009, I'm scared for my life. I got a license in prison. Nothing in my background prepared me for what I'm about to go into. But when I was, was opened up mentally for the messengers to come to me. They came. They were everywhere. Mahama was the first one that I met along the way, you know. But that message to the coffee

beam, it was powerful. It was the first thing that gave me hope that maybe the power is inside me that no matter what's going to go on in this situation, I've got a choice here in what's about to happen to me. And that felt good. I mean, did you... Pool days call for cookouts and lots of laundry. This Memorial Day at Lowe's, save $80 on a charbroil performance series four burner gas grill. Now just $199. Plus, get up to 45% off select major appliances to keep dishes, clothes, and food fresh. Having fun in the sun is easy with us in your corner. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. VALS. VALU-27. While supplies last, selection varies by location. See associate or Lowe's.com for details. This is a Bose moment. You've been there before.

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You feel like you don't have any power. Like the state owns me now or what am I going to do? and I was scared. There's a lot of fear that I think that if anybody's shooting you straight about when they go to prison, there's a lot of fear. The bus ride. The prison bus ride in. In Texas, they shackle you to the other person, your handcuffed to another person on the prison bus. And the bathroom in the back at the prison bus is a five-gallon bucket back there.

There's no bathroom breaks on a prison bus, right? And you're stopping the bathroom. I'm stopping at Buckees. So the prison bus gets to Stiles. The Mark Stiles unit in Beaumont, Texas is the level five prison I went to. Level five is the highest tier level there is for state. It's got about 3,000 men, but the lifers live on seven buildings. Seven buildings are the island and the prison.

432 men, every man's got life. So I get to prison. It's a baptism by fire, Ian. I mean, and it's just like you said. You know, I'm fighting the white gangs, then I'm fighting the black gangs, and I'm losing a lot of these fights. I'm getting my butt kicked over prison. I mean, I probably gotten three dozen fights in the first two months and lose 75% of these fights.

I mean, I'm getting my butt kicked a lot. But Muhammad told me about this. He said, man, no one cares if you want to lose. They just want to see if you're going to get up and fight. And he said, if you're willing to do that, eventually it'll be over. And he was right. So it took about two months of constant fighting in there. It really took me going to the rec yard and playing sports because sports is the great

uniter, man. I found out that in prison and here in the free world, sports brings people together like nothing else can, you know. And after two months of constant battling and playing sports out there with those guys, I'd earn my right to exist as independent in that prison. And that's what I got to work at myself. That's when I started developing these rules about being a coffee bean. And I got into a 12-step program recovery, and I believe that every addict needs recovery.

And I don't know what the program recovery is for the attic, but mine was a 12-step program recovery called AA. And I don't speak for AA, but that's the recovery I'm in. But I started working recovery. I started working on myself. I got up every day with an attitude that, hey, you know what? I got 24 hours a day, seven days to work on me. What is this going to look like?

And I don't think about getting out of prison really in the sense that, I mean, like, I know I'm in there. To say the name of your podcast, I'm locked into this place, man. I fight my case in the courts because I'm trying to get back in and get my sentence reduced. But eventually I lose that battle. But when I was in prison, one of the things I had to do to get people on board with the coffee bean thing is I had to get it. I had to get these guys to buy into this concept that if you're positive in here, we can create a positive world around us, right? And prisons are a very negative place.

I mean, you found it'd be negative too, right? Yeah. So it's an intensely negative place, I would say. So I'm trying to get these guys to follow them in this coffee bean thing, but I can't get any traction. So every Monday night, we could go to the chapel, and that's when the volunteers would come in on Monday night. And they had this volunteer that would come in the chapel every Monday night. This guy named Joe Tours. Joe was so needy, and he would have loved Joe.

Joe could have been anywhere in the world he wanted to be. Joe had a private jet, has thousands of employees for his company, makes millions of dollars. Joe was the guy that started a restaurant chain called Jason's Deli. I don't know if they have those out here, but they got them in the south. Big restaurant chain. So Joe is out there one Monday night, and I'm telling Joe, I'm having a hard time getting these guys to buy into this coffee bean thing. It's a very negative place I'm in. And Joe said, you'll never get these guys to follow you, Damon, until you serve these men.

And he said, because the leader serves his people. He told me about servant leadership. He said, servant leadership is the secret to life. He said, servant leadership is helping other people reach their goals of life, helping to raise other people to a different station of life. Because when we help other people grow, we grow. And he said, if you'll go back to your pod and you figure out what your gift is and you give it away to the pod, that's when these guys will follow you. So I went back to the potian and I thought to myself, man, what is my gift? What do I have that I can give these men?

because you know it's prison, and you can't just start giving things away. Prisons are a very transactional environment. You don't want to accept anything for free either, right? But my gift was this, Ian. I had a bachelor's degree when I went to prison. Most of the guys I'm locked up with their education stop somewhere in junior high, early high school. So I opened a free tutoring service in prison. I started teaching guys how to read and write.

I got them ready for the GED test. So if they ever had a chance to get out of prison one day, they could be a better husband or a better father. Or if they just wanted to read books while they were in their past their time, know how much reading was for me. Did you read a lot of books in there? Every day. Every day when I was in solitary. But imagine if you couldn't read, right? I mean, prison becomes a lot harder place. Because like the old timers said when I got to prison, you got to do your time. You can't let your time do you, right? So I was like, you know what? I can teach guys how to read and write. That's my gift.

So that's what I did. I started teaching guys how to read and write. Now, these guys I'm teaching, I'm tutoring. They're getting a little pushy with me because they're like, I got to pay you with something West. I can't just keep taking these things for free. People are going to think weird stuff, right? Let me get you some coffee from the commissary. Let me get you some stamps, some cookies, whatever it is. And I told him, I said, man, look, I'm good. You don't have to pay me anything. My family takes a very good care.

I was very fortunate, man. My family took care of me. But I said, listen, don't pay it back, pay it forward. What does that mean? Well, listen, man, I'm doing you this favor. I'm doing you a solid. I'm teaching you how to read. Whatever your gift is, share it with someone else.

First time it happened, I'll tell it happened. So this older Hispanic guy, I'm teaching how to read and write. you just wanted to learn later in life you know had a little bit of English but he wanted to learn how to read in English all the books are in English right so um I'm teaching this guy how to read and write he's the best prison artist do you ever run in some good prison artists in prison yeah people have given me stuff here a guest on the show tattoo artists everything incredible man there's so much talent in prison like I cannot believe how much talent there is in there and it's wasted talent man because there's so much talent I think some of the problems in america right

now could be fixed with some of the people in there if we could just figure out how to get them out there and stay on the straight and arrow right so this prison artist man he's so good this guy can sketch anything with pencils so he's like hey you know what i found a way i'm going to pay it forward for your your lessons you're teaching me how to read he said there's a guy in our pod and he was telling me what this guy that's indigent for people listening means you have no money so no one's this guy has no access to anything from the commissary or whatever but this guy that's been in prison for all these years, he wants to send a Christmas card home to his family, but he doesn't have any money. But he put the word out on the street that he was willing to do laundry. He was willing to do

anything. He would sweep their cells, whatever, because he wanted to send a Christmas card to his family. He was lonely, man. You know how it is in prison, man. They say prison is the only place where you're never alone, but you're always lonely. And this guy was really and truly lonely. So the artist told me, he said, listen, because you're teaching me how to read and write, I'm going to draw this guy the best Christmas card that's ever been made for his family. And so he told him, I watched it happening in. And so he gives me chills to tell the story. So he tells the guy, sit down in the day room. So he sketches him. And the picture looks like a Polaroid, man. He's such a good artist. Then he told the guy, he said, go get me every picture that's ever been sent to you from everybody and your family.

All the people that have been born since you've been in prison, all their grandparents, whatever that are dead now. Give me everybody's picture. Bring it down here to the day room. and I watched him and the crowd of people and started getting around him and it started with a couple people watching him at his table and then the whole pot

is watching this guy draw every single person this guy's family into a portrait where he's sitting in the middle and when it was done he had a family portrait and the guy was in his family picture

that's one of the things he had noticed when I got out of prison later in the story when I get out and I go back to my parents' house I look around and from 2004 on when I get hooked on drugs and when I go to prison

family pictures still go on, but you're not in them, man. So I'm missing from every family picture, but this guy solved it for this guy. He put him in a family portrait, and this, who knows what this would have cost in commissary? Hundreds of dollars in prison in economy, right? But he gave it to the guy. He said, send this to your family this Christmas, Merry Christmas. The guy was like, man, how am I going to pay you back? He said, don't pay it back, pay it forward.

So this guy now that got the picture, he's looking at the guys that he didn't have any money, right? What is this guy going to do to serve somebody else? What is his gift? His gift is he has two legs and he's an able-bodied person. So he starts pushing the guys in the wheelchair to chow. Remember the guys in wheelchair in prison? Yeah. Yeah.

If you're in a wheelchair, you're in crutches, you're missing a leg. You're still staying in prison. They don't have a separate prison for you. You're in there just like everybody else. And on the life's in its building, we got older guys that have been there a long time. Some of them can't use their legs anymore. They're in wheelchairs. This guy's job is that he got up every day and pushed these men to chow.

Because he's going. He's going to be a chow anyway, right? So every day he pushes someone, he pushes him back. The guy's got to go to the library or something like that. He goes with them so they can carry their books. And they just saw the prison change because these guys started serving each other. And in 2015, the parole board comes to see me. Now, parole is a dream, right?

That's what every man and woman is working. It's the only way out of a prison, especially of a life sentence like I did. You know, I can't go serve all in a life sentence. So in 2015, the parole board comes to see me. And the lady from parole that interviewed me, you know, she's got my criminal file in front of her, but she doesn't, she doesn't, she's not interested in the file. And she tells me, she's like, Mr. West, I came here today to ask you one question for your parole hearing. She said, this is, it's going to be a one question test. And the answer to my question determines whether or not you're going home or you're going to stay in prison.

So now I'm like, man, what is this lady about to ask me? And I mean, I put together this parole packet. It's got all the things I've done in prison. It's a big parole packet, man. All the classes I've been taken. She didn't even look at it. She said, I've heard about you. She said, you had it all.

She said, we don't see people like you in the system, right? Because you had every advantage, every privilege, and everything over everybody else. She said, you're the definition of a proof of a person, Mr. West. You know that right. I was like, yes, ma'am, I know. I've had a lot of privilege in my life. And she said, but you blew through it. You know, you become a drug addict.

You become a criminal. you become a thief. A jury in Dallas gave you life in prison. But instead of letting that license to find you, you change yourself inside this prison. She said there's no doubt about the change you made to yourself. But what got our attention, the reason why we're here today is you didn't just change yourself inside the prison. You changed the entire prison around you. She said one man was able to change the whole prison. Now what she's talking about Ian, she's talking about this positivity that happened because of a message I got from this old black Muslim guy named Muhammad in County, Joe, and I was able to bring it into a prison and didn't just change myself with it, but was able to

get other people to buy into it, and they changed the prison. I didn't do all this on my own. What she's talking about is all these other men that changed around me because of this example they had, that's why they noticed Damon West. So I realize at this point, I'm only in this interview because of all these other guys that I did time with that made the choice to change. Because that's the reality, right? You and I can't change somebody else. But if you can change the way someone thinks, they can change themselves. And that's what she's talking about. She said, the whole prison changed.

You're the guy that did it. She said, so here's the question. If you could be remembered for being anything in life, anything at all, she said, tell me what that one thing would be, but give it to me just one word. Go. And Ian, I didn't hesitate. I knew the word because I've been living that word the whole time I was in prison. And my one word for her was useful. I said, I just want to be useful again.

Because don't we all want to be useful in? Every human being wants to have value. I've lived in a level five prison. You've lived in prison, and you've lived in a free world. Every human being I've ever met at the core wanted two things out of life. And maybe it didn't happen for a lot of them. You met some bad guys in prison. You met some people that don't need to ever leave prison, right?

I did too. But at one point, these people all wanted the same two things of the life. They want to belong and they want to be loved. And I believe that when those two things are met, the human spirit is capable of anything. And that's one of the things with the coffee being that these guys felt like they belonged to something. There was a community in there they belonged to. And that's why she's asking me this question.

But the answer I gave her was useful. I said, I just want to be useful again. I told her I can be useful inside this prison or I could be useful in the free world again. And November 16, 2015, it worked. I walk out of a Texas prison. Now, I'm not a free man. I got a little more time with them parole. I'm on parole in the state of Texas until the year two.

2007. So when I walked out of prison in 2015, I've got 58 years on paper. And this is a substance abuse parole program. So what I have to do every month in Texas, now when I get out, I know that every month I take a drug test and alcohol test to my PO. If I fail one, I go back to prison. I don't get any chances. You fail one test, you're back in prison. No arrest. Interaction with law enforcement, I have to tell my PO, so if I get a speed and ticket, which has happened once or twice, I call my PO from the side of the road. Hey, Ms. Braggs, I just got a ticket. You know, every month when I want to travel, I said to Texas. I get permission from Texas called a travel permit.

But I have to do all these things into the year, 20073. I get to do all these things because, man, being on parole, I get two things, especially if you had a life sentence. I walk out of prison, and I live with my parents for the first two years of mouth. Not exactly the best dating profile, you know, out of prison, on parole for life, live with my parents or spare bedroom. I make minimum way to work at a law firm. I get a job at a law firm right out of prison. I was a paralegal. and, you know, live in my parents' spare bedroom, you know.

So I get out, I live with them. I know I got a really good story. And that's one of the things when I was in prison, a teacher wrote me. One of a favorite teacher growing up, Mr. Jelly, he wrote me a letter when I was doing time. And he said, listen, you've been to the highest to highs, the lowest of lows. You will bounce back from this thing. I've always known you will bounce back.

He said, I believe in you. Four words, everyone needs to hear. I believe in you. And he said, when you get out of here, you should consider sharing your story with other people, because you're bringing them hope. And hope is the thing everyone needs. And so when I get out of prison, I start trying to go tell my story.

But I found out really quickly, you can't go knock at the door of high school and say, I just got out of prison. I want to talk to your kids. They'll chase down the street. There weren't a lot of place for me to speak in the very beginning. But what there was, in my parents' spare bedroom, there was a mirror in there, a little vanity mirror. My mom had when I moved in. So every night for two years, I practiced a presentation in front of that mirror.

I got in my reps. Because anything you want to be good at in life, you have to practice that in life. because there's no such thing as an overnight success. It doesn't exist, not real. So for two years, I practice in front of a mirror. I'm getting myself ready for this right opportunity. And I believe, Ian, the right opportunity would be the world of college football. Because I played Division I won't college football.

But the problem is, it's been 20 years, so I took my last snap. I don't know the coaches. The coaches don't know me. January 11, 2017. I've been out of prison 14 months at this point. I get a phone call from my buddy in Houston, Houston 90 miles from where I live in Beaumont. He works in the media. He said, Damon, get to Houston right now.

It's the Bear Bryant coach of the Year Award. They're going to name the best college football coach in America tonight. He said, the eight best coaches in the country are in this room right now. I've got an extra press pass. I'll sneak you in. So, man, I drive the 90 miles from Beaumont to Houston. He sneaks me in the back door Toyota Center. He handed me a press pass.

He said, you're on your own. So there I was in this room, man, and all these coaches there. Ian, I run around that room that night. I shake every coach's hand, and I give them my pitch of why they should bring me in to talk to their team. and every single coach slammed the door in my face. They all said no. One of the coaches ran away when I told him I just got out of prison. In one hour, I got seven nose from eight coaches.

That's a no every eight minutes. I'm in the corner of the Toyota Center, licking my wounds, feeling sorry for myself. I'm about to walk at the door and leave. The last coach to talk to, he's the hardest got to get you in the room. Everybody wants to – this guy – this last coach that's there, his team had just beat Alabama two nights before for the national championship. everybody's going to talk to this guy. I'm like, man, he's going to tell me no like everybody else. So I'm getting ready to leave.

But then I stop before I get to the door. I'm like, you know what, Damon? You survive prison, man. This isn't going to hurt like prison. Remember what prison was like. It's kind of like what we were talking about before we got on air here, about how, you know, your worst day out here is better than your best day in prison. And that's, I'm having a pretty bad day that night, you know,

in the corner of Toyota Center, went seven, I went 0 for seven for the first seven coaches. But I'm like, you know what? do what it takes get in front of this last coach asking your question so i stalked this guy i stalked dabbles witty hey coach clement i stalk him around the room at night and finally like i'm hiding behind a fake plant when he sees me man i'm trying to ambush this guy his security detail has seen me too and but i give him my pitch i come up for air and he's just like hey man you got a card on you so i gave him a card he took it he said he said i'll check you out and he was gone that's the blow off man that's the note. I got that no several times that night, but I felt good about the last no, because I left

it all in the field. One of the biggest takeaways I got for playing sports is you got to give it your all. Sometimes you may come up short. Or like Muhammad said, you don't have to win all your fights. You got to fight all your fights. Fought my fights a night, I went home with slept like a baby. I forgot about that night. Four months later, I get an email out of the blue from the director of football operations at Clemson University. Got a name Mike Dooley. So Mike Dooley's email said, Hey, Damon. Coach Sweeney met you at a ward show in Houston. He'd love to have you come talk to his team do you have August 1st open? Brother, I got every first open, man.

I got nothing going on in 17. So August 1st, 2017, I go speak to the Clemson Tigers, the defendant national championship college football. And when I get done my presentation at night, dabble was in my face. Davao's a high-energy guy, too. He's like, damn, that's the most amazing story I've ever heard. I've never seen my players respond like that to a speaker's story.

He said, if you've been to Alabama to talk to Alabama's football team, I'm like, no, man, I've been to Clemson. I've been here, but I hadn't, Alabama didn't know who I am. Debo. He said, we'll see about that. He said, just text Nick Saban for the back of the room. The next day, I get a phone call from Saban's guy. Guy said, hey, man, Davo called Coach Saban last night. Coach Saban can't wait to hear your story. How does August 21st, 7.30 p.m. work for your calendar. And I'm like, man, I don't have a calendar. That works well, right? Just like that, dabble is when he kicks open the biggest order to college football. Alabama, man. The best

program in the history of college football with the best coach ever do it. And he calls other coaches, man. Kirby Smart calls Lincoln Riley, Chip Kelly, Lane Kiffin, Ryan Day. All these coaches start calling my phone. When are you come to talk to my team? So the dream is real, man. It's happening. My life as a speaker starts taking off. But the biggest event happens a year later when I get a phone call out of the blue from a guy named John Gordon. In 2018, John Gordon, one of the biggest keynote speakers and authors calls me up. He says, hey, Damon, I was just with Davao a while ago. He told me your whole story. He said, Damon, the world needs the coffee beam message.

Let's deliver this message to world. He said, write a book with me. We'll call it the coffee bean. And in the summer of 2019, 10 years after our first show the story from Muhammad in a jail cell, the book, The Coffee Bean came out. It took the world by stormy.

The whole world. It starts off in America first. Four to six weeks, it's riding down at the top of every bestseller list. It got a global publishing deal. Global publishing is rare. That's when your book gets reprinted in every language to the world. The coffee bean starts popping them in Chinese and Spanish

and Arabic, French, Italian, German, Vietnamese, Korean, just in time for the year 2020. Remember 2020, right? COVID, man. The pandemic hit. The world becomes a pot of boiling water. The world is searching for a message. And that's when the whole world discovers Damon West's story in the coffee beam.

Ian, my life went from this, for people listening flat to this vertical, straight up, like a rocket ship. Like, my life as a speaker was put on a rocket. Since 2021, I've been on the road 20 to 25 days of every month, sharing my story all over America, all over the world at this point. But it all goes back to this one night in Houston, Texas, on January 11, 2017. Remember that night I had seven nos in the first hour, and I'm walking out the door, getting ready to leave?

If I walk out that door that night, I don't ask the last coach for that question. The one I'm sure is going to be a no. If I don't get that last no that night, which turns out to be the biggest yes, we're not having this conversation today and the world doesn't have the coffee me message kind of like when you got out you had the dream for this podcast man

if you kept working that job was it whole foods? Whole Foods yeah you kept working at Whole Foods and you didn't say hey you know what I'm gonna take a chance on me you bet on yourself right and that's what I think the stories are the people that bet on themselves

and when you bet on yourself then you can become something that people can say you know what this episode is brought to you by Redfin you're listening to a podcast which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home.

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meal-time perfection for every cat. Have your human visit perfect bistro.com. If he can do it, I can do it. Yeah, even before Whole Foods, I literally applied to 100 different places, and Whole Foods was one one. Yeah. And that made the difference. I had by that point, you know, you're defeated. I couldn't even get a job as a dishwasher anywhere. They just kept referring to the news and the media and all the bad press I was getting. And for some reason, I answer that last call. And I tell, I literally told the lady on the phone, listen, people keep telling me, no, I have a record, you know, I'm not going to come. And she said, no, no, no, come. And that was the one that changed my life. Wow. And that applies to

everything. You know, it's not just to your level or my level with podcasting. It could be as something as simple as, you know, a relationship, you know, or a business or a job or anything like that. Just don't quit. Yeah. You cannot give up, man. I think doors open automatically. I don't like the people that say, oh, it's a privilege thing or it's an opportunity thing. You just find the door. You keep pushing for that next door. Yeah. I mean, I can totally relate. In my story, which is the one I can relate to the most because I lived it, you know, the stuff that's happening in my life, it didn't, it wasn't given to me. Like, I've knocked on a lot of doors to get where I am right. I've been told no a lot, you know, to get where I am right now, but I wasn't going to give up

because no one's going to build your dream but you. And I asked Davo years later. I said, dabble, why did you say yes when all the other coaches said no? He said, because I could see it in your eyes. You believed in you. He said, no one will believe in you until you believe in yourself. He said, growth follows belief, but you have to believe in yourself before anybody else can believe in you, you can really grow. And I've never forgot that because it's true. If you don't believe in yourself, people see that. Man, they can feel it from the conversation. I mean, when I got out of prison, I wanted people to take me more serious than a guy that just got out. A warden once told me three words together, Ian,

that I'll never forget. And you'll, you know, when I tell you these words, you'll understand it. and everybody listens been to prison before you understand it. Punishment never stops. We were just talking about it with the job stuff. Punishment never stops. You'll never stop being punished for what you did, right? 100 applications and you get told no about 100 different times.

That means you're still being punished for what you did. So we know that as ex-cons. Punishment never stops, but that's the way it is. You just got to work within that system. When I got out, I knew that I wanted to go out and impact the world. But I wanted people to take me more serious than some guy that just got out of prison. So I went back to school.

I went and got a master's degree in criminal justice from Lamar University in Beaumont, Texas, which is right where I live. And in 2019, I graduate with a master's in criminal justice. Literally 10 years from the time I got sentenced to life in prison, I get a master's degree in criminal justice. And a few months later, the University of Houston downtown gets in touch with me. And they asked me to be their professor of a class called Prisons in America. So I went to become one of the only professors I know of on earth to teach a prison's class who once lived in prison. And it was whenever I was teaching that class that I learned, when I was getting my master's too, I learned a lot about the system that I didn't know academically. I did time in prison, but I didn't know the academic side of it.

Like, for example, this number, 95%, 95% represents a number of people that get out of prison one day. there's about 3 million people in this country that are under some form of incarceration and this can be parole supervised release whatever it be in prison be kind of jail 95% of those people get out of and that's 95% of 3 million that's a lot of people they're going to get out one day they're going to be walking on your street they're going to be pumping gas next to you they're going to be the line of Walmart next to your family they might be your neighbor one day we want these 95% to have an opportunity in life and so I knew that if I can implement the world in corrections and every point of it because I believe corrections is a triangle

it's a triangle in my opinion one point of the triangle you have inmates another point of the triangle you have the staff the staffs of prison and the other point of the triangle you have family members and I'm not just talking about family members of the inmates I'm talking about family members of the staff there because let's be honest man the CEOs and people that were around you in prison that were around me they get a little bit institutionalized too they're in an institution a lot of their lives, half of their lives, 12 hours a day, they're inside of a prison. They take that stuff home. And I understood it later when I got academically educated with it in the Bureau of Prisons.

Since 1997, there's been 190 staff suicides. 190, Ian? It's one of the most dangerous jobs in America when you think about it. What other occupation is a suicide rate that high? And it's like when I tell when I speak to staff. I do a lot of my time speaking to Bureau staff now, thanking them for the job they do, and telling them, like, we've got to take care of you. You've got to take care of you. Your wellness, your health is very important because if you don't take care of you, you can't take care of anybody else. And you do all this training in prison, if you're a staff member, you're a guard. Do all this training in the event that someone may harm you or kill you. When, in reality, with numbers like that, the person most likely to harm you is staring at you in the mirror every day. And so in this point in my life, 10 years out of prison now, I get to go to prisons all of America. I voluntarily do it.

I don't get paid for the prison stuff, man. That's like, that's what I get to do. That's my passion to going in there. And I get to have a positive impact. I get to bring the coffee being message back into a prison because that's where it came from. It came from incarceration. I get to bring the coffee being message back into prisons now and speak to staff specifically. And, you know, and I thank them in the sense that there were good.

COs that worked when I was in prison. Those good CEOs, they made sure I got to my classes on time. They made sure I got to the chapel. The chapel was a life wrap for me. I spent a lot of time in the chapel. They made sure I had counselors if I needed to talk to somebody. Medical staff was there. I mean, prison is a big, like, community in there.

And I want these officers to know their job matters because if 95% of people are going to get out, I want them to, like, feel appreciated. And I want them to see the example that someone. one got it right because that's what I think we need to see more of. I think we need to see more stories like your more stories like mine of the person that got out had a plan and went to work on it and now is impacting society in a good way because we see so many of the other stories don't. I mean if what 75, 80% of the people go back to prison recidivism number is high. You're hearing a lot of bad stories out there but I think we need to celebrate the good stories and I find a lot of

peace in my life by going back into prison. I know that sounds crazy, but as a recovering addict, one of the biggest tenants of being in recovery is service work. And so I have to find ways to serve other people. And one of the biggest ways I get to do that is going into prisons and voluntarily go and work with the staff and the inmates in there and sharing the message of the coffee bean, bringing that message back into that pot of warm water called prison. Yeah, whenever someone asked me to go into a prison, I happily go. We finally got invited to a Connecticut prison a couple months ago when we went. We've been to Tennessee and Arkansas and Arizona. We've been to a variety of places.

Can I help you get in some prisons? Dude, I'd love to. We'll go wherever you want us to go. I've got a lot of connections around the country and their prison systems. I mean, wherever they want, you know. Yeah. That's my nonprofit give back work, you know. I love that, Ian.

So I'm all about that. I think it's very inspirational. At the prison I went to in Connecticut, a couple guys asked for my address and we have a big stack of letters. Yeah. And I've been getting messages from people like their folks on the outside or guys that got out after and just said it was really inspirational because I talked to them about it's less about the crime that put me there and more about, you know, the challenges I faced in prison and then rebuilding out outside of prison between the hard times finding the job and then finding my purpose ultimately after. And every single person that comes to the studio and comes on the show, they're very inspired by like the studio and everything I have. some people want that, but it doesn't happen overnight.

And the best piece of advice I give to anyone coming out of the prison is just go work a normal job. Even if it's minimum wage, you know, it could be a $9 an hour washing dishes just to build a base, to build a backbone. And that's so foundational. It helped me rebuild my credit, get an apartment, get a girlfriend, get a dog, do all of those things, pay for my own car insurance and everything. We got a dog you got. But he was a, what's he? He's like a lab. I forgot the name of the dogs with like the flappy ears.

And then we have another one, a little terrier. That's cool, man. I love dogs. I've got a golden doodle at home. I'm Lottie, man. I miss my dog a lot. Oh, a Vichla Lab. He's a Visha Lab.

That's cool, man. Dogs are great. And I've always thought, and maybe we can hook up on this after the podcast and talk about it more. I think that's one of the best ways to rehabilitate people. to give them a pet in prison to take care of. We had a dog program at the federal prison I was in. Man, I've seen a lot of that in federal prisons, man. The state prisons where I was in Texas, they didn't have that.

They have a couple of units that trained dogs for veterans. But I'm talking about something different. I want to see in my lifetime, and I'm going to be a change age. I'll be a coffee bean and make this happen. I want to see programs where men and women in prison can adopt animals that no one wants, right? dogs start with dogs and bring cats into i saw a thing about this prison somewhere that has a bunch of cats and nobody wanted right they were going to put these cats to sleep and they gave them to the to the prison but you want someone to learn empathy and learn about responsibility while they're

in that prison environment and they're sober hopefully i mean they're they're they're working themselves give them something to take care of get them a purpose in life like that i thought many times when i was in prison man if i had a dog to do this time with how great would that be you know it helps two souls out. You know, you help the dog that no one wants that maybe we put to sleep anyway, and you give it to someone that someone's thrown away. It's like a second chance for both. So I do believe that there's a pathway through to empathy, and empathy's important. You have to have empathy as a human being. But I believe there's a pathway through through animals, and I think we need to explore that in America and the prison system. I think also what we need to do with prisons in America

is we need to quit talking about prison as being part of the criminal justice system. I don't think prison corrections is part of the criminal justice system. Here's what I think Ian is part of the criminal justice system. The criminal history, the cops, the law enforcement, the defendant in the courtroom, the defense attorneys, the prosecutors, the judges, and the legislators that write the laws. That's the system. When the system's done with you, that's when you go to prison. Prison is not part of that system because prison is a whole different thing. society really kind of washes their hands of us once we're done with the system and they go off to prison.

I thought we dealt with that guy a long time ago, but the reality is 95% of those people that you think you deal with are going to come back one day. What version of them comes back? And I believe if we could separate corrections out from the criminal justice system and focus time and resources on this over here, I believe we have a lot better correction system. It's separated out, man. It's not it's not the criminal justice system. You've got criminals in there, but now we're, once we separate it out too, we can talk about rehabilitation more. Because anytime you tie this prison thing to this criminal justice mindset, we're not talking about rehabilitation.

And I think that's something we all need to be on. If 95% of people get in out, let's call it what it is. This is a rehab facility. This is to rehabilitate a person to be a better human being. And I don't think that really happens under the guise of the criminal justice system. Because remember, we all didn't handle the system well enough or wouldn't they go under prison. But while we're over here working ourselves, let's call it what it is. This is a place for people to rehabilitate and become a better human being.

And let's put more resources into it. Like that number I told you, you know, 190 suicides since 1997 for the staff and the BOP. The divorce rate 70%. Hypertension. The lifespan is like the late 60s. If you work a corrections career for your life, you die in your late 60s. That's 10 years different than the average lifespan of a human being. Let's get them some better resources.

Let's see what we could really do if we put the resources into that that we put into the criminal justice system. Now, something I'm curious about is, you know, you have two men that walk into the same maximum security prison. Say, in your case, Texas, you have you and then someone else. One is able to navigate it without violence and change their life and the other person's involved in violence. Why is that? Because I see that across the board. Yeah, is it nature or nurture? Right. I mean, like, what background did they come from the same exact background? I mean, or did they come from different parts of society? So do you think it stems strictly from background? I think a lot of it does. I think a lot of, I think we carry a lot with us from how we were born in

this world. I mean, some of this stuff is like not anything we've done to get there. Like, example. In my life, I was born into a two-parent home, white, middle class, grew up in, you know, suburbs. Good student, great athlete, those things I worked hard for. But I had a lot of obstacles removed for me, not all the obstacles in life, but a lot of obstacles were removed for me that some other people, when I got to prison, here's the people that, like, when I was in prison in. I had a sociology bachelor's degree. Perfect for going to prison because living in prison's like living in a giant sociological petri dish. It's like a lab, isn't it? I mean, you're like, you wake up in a lab every day. This is a human lab experiment going on. So I started talking to guys

in prison, like, you know, tell me back story, how you got to hear, stuff like that. You had really comfortable with these guys where you start asking those questions, but I'm there for years with them and we're all serving life. Here are the variables that I could determine who goes to prison in America. Who doesn't? The first variable, poverty. Poor people go to prison more than anybody else. The second variable was lack of an education. That's the second biggest thing you see in there. A lot of people's education doesn't get off the ground. And without education in this country, they tell us you can't have a good job or go out to do these things. You have to, and I don't even necessarily think that's, we've gone the right path. I don't think pushing

college and everything else on people has been a great idea. I think trade schools and stuff like that. I think school should be gear for the student. Like, there's some fundamental stuff you should learn along the way. But anyway, when a person drops out, they don't get that. They don't get the GED or anything like that. So poverty, lack of an education. The third biggest variable, lack of a family unit. How many guys are you locked up with that came from a two-parent home?

No, it's probably slim. Very slim. Small percentage. Very small percentage. I wasn't one. I mean, I knew of about 10 other guys. The unit had 3,000 people. I mean, I didn't know everybody.

But, I mean, I knew about 10 other guys. and had two parents still. Poverty, lack of education, lack of a family in it, race was the fourth biggest one. That was the one that, you know, you get to about, where you start seeing that prison was more

of an upside-down world than the world out here, where the blacks had the numbers in, and Mohammed told me this. He said, when you get to prison, it's upside down from the way it is out there.

You know, this is in Texas, too. So he said, the majority that you can see in there is black, the second biggest you can see is the Hispanics. And third biggest you can see is people that look like you,

white people. So poverty, lack of education, lack of a family unit, race. And the fifth variable was substance abuse slash mental health. That's why most people go to prison. And by the way, the only variable that touched me in my life that will go into prison with substance abuse. That's why most people end up in prison is the variables right there. Now, two guys walk into prison.

What parts of the variables do they touch? That would be my next question in this scenario. We don't have to, like, game it out all the way down to the very bottom of it, but I do think some of what you were born into in your background is going to affect that. The other part is going to affect it in prison is what kind of a support system do you have while you're in there? Ian, my mom and my dad came to visit me over 150 times. I had over 150 visits in prison. Nobody had visits like that, man. Not where I did my time.

I mean, it was extremely out of the ordinary to have that many visits. but my parents always wanted me to feel like I still belong to the world out there. Like I had one foot in and one foot out. So I never fully got sucked into prison because I felt like I had a life out there on the outside. You know, my brothers would write me letters or family members would write me letters. They made sure if people had my address or birthdays, a bunch of birthday cards would come in the mail. So much depends on your support system out there because you got to have hope Ian. The movie Shawshank Redemption.

I think Shawshank is one of the best present. movies ever and i'll tell you why doesn't exactly depict the most realistic prison scenes right there's some realism about the prison stuff in there don't get me wrong shaw shank was so spot on because shaw shanx about hope and the whole movie's about hope the main character it's the redemption part of the story wasn't at the redemption of andy do frame remember andy i actually never watched it you've never seen it no i have to watch it you have to watch it so andy's the main character right and he's the the guy the innocent guy that goes to prison you know but he's not who the movie's about The movie's about this guy named Red. Red is the guy played by Morgan Freeman's character. Red has no hope. The first time you meet Red in the movie, he gets denied parole. He's a dead man walk. It has no hope inside this place. None of the men in Shawshank have hope. You're going to see an old guy in there named Brooks. Brooks Hadlon has a pet bird. Brooks did 50 years in prison and he finally made parole. It lasted two weeks, man, before he hung himself. The world had changed too much for him out there. He was more comfortable being in prison. He was so institutionalized. He couldn't take it in the free world. So he got to be.

his freedom and then he killed himself. But he wrote a letter back to the boys in Shawshank, told him what he did and why he did it. And is Andy, the character that read the letter out to the men in Shawshank Prison, every man in prison understood why Brooks did what he did, right? Because they have the same hopeless mindset. But Red,

the narrator, Red says Andy, I wouldn't make it out there either in the free world, Andy. I'm an institutional man now. Red said the words out live for you truly understand. You're going to hear this when Red says this. Red said hope is a dangerous thing. Now imagine the if you live in that world where you believe hope, the thing you must have.

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I had hope all the time. You had hope. I think a big part of it, you know, because I went to trial, you have hope fighting your case. Yeah. And that got me through probably a year and a half. And then when that got denied, you have like a year left at that point, at least in my case. Yeah. There was always something to look forward to.

But you had hope. You had hope, wherever it came from. The two guys in the scenario you're talking about, do both of those guys have hope? You know, that's another variable. Like, do we both have hope going through this prison world? I had hope. And so I referenced Shawshank because the whole point of the movie Shawshank you'll see at the end. It culminates in this last scene on this beach in Mexico.

Andy escaped prison. He escapes one night. Then Red finally makes his parole. And Red catches up with Andy. And Red's last bit of dialogue. The last minute of dialogue tells you the whole story of the movie. And I didn't understand the movie until I got out of prison. and I'd seen it with the lens of going through prison first.

The movie came out when I was in high school. So the last piece of dialogue, Red says, I hope I make it across the border because Andy's in Mexico. He said, I hope I make it across the border. I hope I see my friend again so I could shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it was in my dreams. I hope. That's the last two words of the movie.

In every sentence that he said, that last piece of dialogue started off with those words, I hope. Red had no hope Andy always had hope you had hope in prison I had hope in prison do the people that make it have hope

is that the variable is that the determining factor I think it's a big one man so do you think about how different it would have been if you didn't fight in the first two months I got there

yeah would have it would have been a different experience for you yeah man because here's what happens in there if you don't fight you got three options

you can fight you can you can become someone's punk in there. You know, basically they'll pass you around and have sex with you. Or you can pay for protection. These are the three options in pretty much every prison, right? I mean, same where you went, right?

Yeah. You've got three options. You can be sexually assaulted in there and that's how you're going to be in prison. That's, you know, some guy's going to watch over you because you can be his property. You can fight or you can buy your protection. Well, the first option to become someone's, you know,

punk in there. That's not my thing, man. I can't live like that. And I saw the guys in there that had been transformed like that because they didn't fight. And these guys were broken shells of men because a human means not supposed to be treated like that. Whether you're a man or a woman being raped and sexually assaulted breaks a person. It breaks a person down. So paying for, paying for protection, that wasn't going to work either. I didn't have, I didn't have the ability to do anything. First of all, But I've always been a fighter. And, like, I was attracted to the option of, like, standing my ground.

And if I didn't survive prison, at least I went down fighting for the right cause. Because my mom told me, you have to come back as the man we raised. She said, come back as the man we raised her. Don't come back at all. You know, so she tells me that when she tells me no gangs, no tattoos. I don't have really the ability to do anything else. Fighting is my only option. And so that was going to be the one I was going to either.

it's kind of burned the boat's mentality. I didn't have another route after that. If I don't fight in prison, we're not having this conversation today. I didn't transform myself. I didn't turn myself around. I'm one of the broken men probably in prison. There was a time in prison, too.

I wrote about it in one of my books. This guy was going to rape me in the showers one night and right after wreck. And so the guy that told me about it, my cellmate, gave me the jump on it. He also gave me a fan motor who beat this guy with. And I go to the shower that day, and I ambush this guy coming to rape me. And I beat him with the family.

I almost beat him to death in the shower, right? Because it's do or die. This guy is like, he's coming to rape you. He's the biggest rapist in prison. HIV positive. Got a knife. I mean, this is a do or die situation. If I don't beat that guy that day

because he's going to come take everything for me in life, then I don't make it past that. I'm still in prison or I'm dead in prison. Yeah, it just, I didn't see any other out but fight. So how do you not let a moment like that alter who you are as a person? I don't think you can let it not only, I think it has to alter you. I went into a shower with a fan motor ready to kill a guy. Like I flipped off the switch that says you're not going to kill somebody in life.

And it's like, I'm going in and I'm going to kill this guy, prayed to God for the strength to do it. And I pretty much feel like I got the green light from God. And when I talk about, by the way, when I talk about God to your audience, I'm not here to convert anybody. Whatever you believe God is is God, right? You can believe whatever you want. I'm in AA, man.

We talk about a higher power. My belief is in Christ, but you can believe anything you want. I don't want anybody to come away ago. This guy talked about God so much that it turned you off. If that bothers you, plug in whatever you believe God is. But when I can go to the shower that night and I'm going to go fight this guy with this fan motor, I talk to Christ. I'm like, hey, man, listen, I need your help.

I'm going to go kill this guy in this shower. And I'm like, green light, let's go. You know, I believe I've got that power, my higher power is behind me on that one. And I don't believe those two things are incongruent. I think those two things can exist. I think that when you're in a preservation of life moment like that, whatever faith you are, I think you can pray to that deity and ask for the strength to do that because your life is on the line. I mean, this guy was going to come rape me and probably kill me.

So you're not supposed to just lay down and take that. And there's nowhere I can go. I can't run and hide. So, I mean, I believe I got the green light. But I don't think, I don't think there's, I think it's impossible to not be changed by that. Like, I learned in prison that the only language everybody speaks is violence. Either someone speaks it to you or you speak it to them, but you have to understand violence when you live in a level five prison. That's the only language people speak. And I became fluent violence. And, you know, you can't unring that bell. Now, do I, you know, do I have any problems with that now? No, when I got done fighting in the first two months, I don't have any anger issues or anything like that. I don't carry that with me. But, I mean, readjusting the life after prison, was it difficult to get bumped into by somebody walking on the street and I'm not saying, excuse me? Yeah, man. Because in prison, if you bump into somebody, you don't own it, man. That could be a fight. You know, you could find yourself on the other end of a piece of steel. But the world we live in, you can't beat your point. problems. You have to deal with your problems. It's not, that world of prison is not a real world.

That's an artificial upside down world. But here's what scares me, Ian, is that you look around what's going on out here in the world right now. When people start giving up their liberties and their rights and the world starts becoming more like a prison, then you're slowly slipping in this thing. You're almost like sleepwalking into this world where the power becomes the real thing in life. That's where I think the world is slipping into right now. We're giving up a lot of our freedoms and our responsibility. We're turning our responsibilities over to power. And that's not a good thing. I've seen in the world of that. You've seen the world of that. Prison is about power. Prisons are a very dominant world. And I don't want to live in a world like that. And I don't

think most people do either. But I think people have got to wake up and realize, hey, we live in a country where we, this is the greatest country in history of world again. The only thing greater than America is America's potential. But we can give our potential away. We cannot live up to our potential if we sleepwalk into this thing and give away our power. But even after that moment, you still chose to do better in prison. I feel like some people do the opposite and they'll join the gangs or they'll get involved in more violence. You didn't let that moment define you.

No. But I had hope. I had a family that came to visit me. I mean, my family would see me beat up sometimes in the visitation room. And, you know, they would always sit there and make me laugh. They would make me feel better. It was my dad. Whenever I was fighting in the first two months, my dad, my mom and dad were coming to visit me.

And my dad asked me, he said, hey, do you play any sports? My dad was a sports writer for 50 years. So he was a very famous sports writer. He was the first sports writer to put black athletes on front pages. southeast Texas. So sports was his life. He understood the world's sports and everything. He thought of everything to the lens of sports.

So he asked me, visitation. Got a black eye, you know. He's like, you play any sports out there? I'm like, no, man. And the wreck yard's crazy out of here. Because the rec yard on the prison where I live, every sport was segregated by the color of your skin. Like every sand volleyball,

whites and Hispanics only. Handball, all races can play handball. But if you want to play a game of doubles in a handball, your doubles partner has to the same skin color. The chow hall, in the chow hall, you set at a table with people from the same race. You don't sit at tables with people from other races. Race was everything in there. And I'm telling my dad that.

I'm like, man, no, I'm not going to go out there, man. You know, everything's racially charged. It's dangerous out there. Stay in the pod and read, you know. And he said, I think you should go out there and play sports. He said, sports is the great uniter. So he said, sports is the one thing that brings people together like nothing else can. He told me.

Before there was Martin Luther King, Jr., there was Jackie Robinson, a baseball player. You know, so he's like, sports can be the thing that changes everything for you and here. And I went back the next day or the Monday after that visitation, and I went out at the basketball court. The basketball court was run by the blacks. No white boys could be in the basketball court. But I go out there, I get myself in a game of basketball and start playing basketball with these guys, and that's what really kind of turned things for me was sports. I went out there and played sports.

I competed with these guys. It was dangerous. It was violent. But after enough time playing basketball with these guys, I'd earn the respect. And that's really when the violence with the blacks stop was whenever I started playing basketball with them and earned the respect that way. So if I don't have that episode where I go there and play basketball, I don't know that I made it. I don't know that I keep fighting individually one after another that comes about yourself. Because in there, the level five stuff, if someone says,

says, I want to look at you, man, they're not, they're not saying I want to look at you like in a gayway. They want to look at you in the shower. They want to box you, you know, or catch a square. You're going to fight. There's nowhere to go in there. It's lifers. So the basketball court was the one thing that leveled everything out for me. Is there a way to stop the violence and the gangs and the politics in prison from your perspective? I think that if you make prison a place, I think if you can infuse more hope into that place, you would change the violence in there. You look at the violence.

The violence is mostly the younger people, right? It's the younger people that come in. It's the gangs. Older people aren't in gangs, you know, for the most part. A lot of the old timers in there, the old convicts, they phase out of that stuff. All these guys want to do is just do their time and go home. You know, they're convicts, man. They've got to do their time.

I think that prisons, if they operated, if there was more hope, inside of prisons that would change the violence aspect of it because i think fear becomes the big factor you know the opposite of fear is love you've got to find ways to put more love in there to get the fear down and that's what the violence is driven by fear the the criminal gangs they run the criminal gangs on the outside run the gangs on the inside here's what i think you could do to fix the prison system 80% of the contraband that comes in prison you could fix it with one thing and that's if the the federal government would allow them to block cell phone signals inside of a prison, would change the game overnight. Yeah, do you know why that's not allowed? I don't know. No, no, masks. I've never been

curious. I don't know. I don't know why they won't let them block cell phone signals. But that would change everything. There's no cell phones. Drones can't operate without it. I mean, like, it would change the whole game in there if they just block cell phone signals in prison. But they don't do that. Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me at all. I feel like there's a lot more tools, even the concept of guards still being able to bring cell phones in. I don't understand how that happens. I don't know a lot of guards that bring them in. I mean, like, rank, like wardens and stuff like that can bring a cell phone with them, but I don't see many guards in prison with phones. What happened all the time at four ticks? Yeah. Yeah, guards are bringing them in all the time.

I'm going there next month. At four ticks? Oh, you mean guards bringing them in like sneaking them in? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I thought you're talking about like in their pocket. No, no, no, man. That's how a lot of contraband comes in. But, but, but yeah, you can't get on an airplane without, you know, going through, like, why can't the security check still be as tough as, say, TSA? Yeah, I don't know. It depends on who's checking the security that day, right? I mean, like, yeah, there's definitely COs and stuff that bring stuff in.

There's drops that come in through, I think drones is the primary way. That's a new way now, yeah. Oh, my God. You should see, I see the pictures of it on social media. The BOP has a thing on their site where it shows the bags. The drones can drop all 300 pounds of stuff now. A 300 pound bag of, I mean, there's all kinds of stuff in these bags. But yeah, look, Ian, I'm with you, man.

I think that there's a lot of stuff that can be done. But if you can wipe out cell phones, you'd wipe out most of the corruption in prison. Everything has run through cell phones. You would change the game overnight. The violence level would go down. The contraband would go down. What do you think is the difference between someone that's successful on parole or probation versus not successful?

I think it's what they did with their time when they were in prison. Here's the thing. I don't think that you can go to prison and do your time and not work on yourself and then expect you to change that person. You expect to be a change person when you get out.

Like you're still that same person. You may be worse off now because prison's a lot of things. It can be a crime school if you want it to be. You can sit around with other people and talk about other crimes. It can be the best training ground in the world. I mean, I proved that in my story.

I've seen a lot of people that have proved that in their story. I think the determining factor who's going to be successful in parole is the ones that worked in themselves while they're in prison. A successful reentry, in my opinion, begins the day you get to prison. If it doesn't start that day, it's to start today, start this day, you know. If you work on yourself while you're in prison and you have a plan that you want to implement when you get out, and you're working on that plan, actively working that plan, you're changing yourself, you're changed the way you think. and then you're going to change your outcome, but you can't not work on yourself

and expect things to change when you get out. And my family, what I've done with this speaking business money is to bring my family along for the ride. I've started with my wife, is it got a construction company. Her and my mother-in-law, it's a female-owned company,

and we have a dirt pit, a dirt materials company. And when we got this going, I think this is great. We're going to hire a bunch of ex-cons and just get out of prison. They're going to be so grateful for this job like I was, like you were at Whole Foods.

Like I was at the provostrophe law firm. Like, I was so grateful for that job. I know you were too, right? That was your one chance. And I wasn't going to screw it up. And you weren't going to screw it up either. So I'm like, this is great. Now I can be the guy that gives up that first chance after prison.

Ian, we've heard a lot of people with criminal records, and we've been burned by a lot of people with criminal records. And it's wild, man. These guys come under prison, and I'm like they're conquered hero for some of them. They read my books in prison. I mean, people know me in prison. They're motivated by the stuff they read and see me do. And they get out of prison, they start working for our company.

But they're an addict. They don't have a program recovery. This is another thing I think that tells you who's going to be successful on parole. 80% of the people that have subspute issues, 80% of people in prison have subspubuse issues. All right. That's about the number. 80% of the people, four out of every five, have some kind of substance abuse issues. And female person is higher than that.

It's in the 90s, right? I believe every addict needs a program recovery. I don't know what your program recovery is. I got into AA. It works for me. I go to two or three meetings a week still. I got an app of my phone that tells me where meetings are. I might find one in the night in Connecticut.

You know, it just depends on how late the meetings go. But a successful addict finds a program recovery. They can live with their addiction and have tools that can help them out when they have cravings again. Because that's the thing about addiction. Addiction is you think about using. An addict gives up their goals to meet their behaviors. That's the definition of addiction.

When you give up goals to meet a behavior, you're an addict. So a successful personal parole is going to have a program recovery that they work, actively work. And I believe a real program recovery is going to work on the person who you are and you find the root of the cause of why you do all these things. Why you have fears, why you have resentments against other people. Why do things hold you back in life? When you can dig down and find the poison seeds of that, then you can change yourself and you don't have to have the same bad outcome.

So these are just different things, I think that people that are on parole, they're successful, they find when they're in prison. They find a way to transform themselves and work on themselves in there. The addicts find a program recovery, and they don't graduate from a program recovery. I can't tell you how many times people are like,

hey, man, are you graduated from AA yet? You don't graduate from this stuff. Not if you're me, if you're really an addict. I can't speak for other addicts, Ian, but I can speak for me. I go back to the rooms of recovery because I know that anything I put from my recovery, I'll lose. And I got a lot to lose now, man. I'm married.

I got a little stepdaughter. I've got the dog I told you about. I've got a home that I've built a mom. My dad died a couple years ago. I built my mama home right next door to mine. I'm a philanthropist, do a lot of stuff in prisons, a professor, author, speaker. I found Muhammad when I got out of prison. He was dead, but I found his family and I started a scholarship in his name.

So every year, we give away a $10,000 scholarship. I put the money in the account every year for some little kid that grows up in his old neighborhood that gets a better chance of life through education because two guys met up in a county jail back in 2009. I can't speak for other people's like reentry and how they do in parole, but I can tell you this stuff that has been successful for me. And what was successful for me is when I got to prison, I got to work on myself. I hit rock bottom finally Rock bottom for me was getting that 65 year sentence

That's what I knew That something had changed That something was me So I hit rock bottom I worked in myself I had a plan I run into people In the speaking world now

They're like man I can't believe How big of a speaker You are just a few years out You know I've been doing this For eight years down At this point At the time of the recording

Man in eight years I can't believe where you are right now I'm like eight years The guy you're looking at you today I started building this guy In a dungeon in 2009 Like this guy you see today was built in a dungeon and I believe those to be successful. You had a plan when you were in there, right?

You weren't just going to like come out and do nothing. You were going to work hard and make it make your dreams happen one way or another, right? Yeah, it was a lot different than what it turned out to me, but nonetheless I had a plan. Yeah. And it didn't involve committing crime. Right. You had a plan. And I mean, I think that when you're in prison and you have a plan and you work on your plan,

you're giving yourself the best options to be successful. I think where I see a lot of people fail, too, and reentry is who they surround themselves with. For example, I'll see some guests that come on the show, and when they bring their friends here, those friends are people that are, you know, could be selling drugs or involved in gangs still. Or I see so many guests so reluctant to say that they're not affiliated with their gang anymore. It's like a part of them. They'll say, oh, no, I didn't leave. But a lot of those people can't unaffiliate. I mean, like the guys that in prison that I knew that, I mean, and I got to know everybody in there.

I mean, the Aryan Brotherhood guys, stuff like that, that's forever. They're not getting out of that. I mean, you're there forever. And so some of these people you're talking about coming in, they're probably still affiliated. And that's the thing. Can you be successful in life if you're attached to a criminal street gang? Probably not. No.

Yeah. I mean, it's not giving yourself the best chance for success to do that anyway, right? there's only four things you control in life in. And I learned this in prison. And once I was stripped of everything, I learned that you can control what you think, what you say, what you feel, and what you do. If it's not one of those four things,

you have no control over it. That's where your higher power comes in. You know, your higher power controls the rest of that. But what you think, what you say, what you feel, and what you do. And in there is the people you hang out with, right? That's a big part of your success. You're absolutely right.

Because if you show me who you hang out with, I could tell you who you are. Do you think you ever lost your childhood self in this process? My childhood self, so whenever I was nine, I was molested by a babysitter, a female babysitter. And I give people this caveat. Like, it wasn't one of those things where I was molested and a life changed for me. It got miserable. Like, I think there's a lot of people that deal with molestation.

They have it far worse than what I had it. What happened for me is, what I can speak about my experience, is this female babysitter that molested me. Basically, it's like this. Let's say that there's a big door, the adult door in life. It's so big, you can't even reach the handle, right, when you're a kid. It's got bolts on it and locks on it. You can't go on the other side of the adult door.

But if you're nine years old and someone adult opens that big adult door for you and you walk in on the other side, all the other doors in life are this flung open, smoking, drinking, doing drugs, all the adult decisions you can make in life because you have free will. So once I got on the other side of the big adult door, all these other doors were just wide open. And then when I was 10, I started drinking alcohol when I was, you know, 10 and I started smoking cigarettes, smoking pot when I was 12, having sex when I was 12. All the big adult doors in life were open for me. And that's what happened to me at nine years old is I got into adult behaviors and I wanted to do other things adults were doing. So I would say that childhood self kind of walked away at

nine years old and got into a lot of really adult behaviors at a young age, that's where the molestation thing messed with me because I no longer had that innocence of a child anymore, and I was trying to emulate the adults around me, and it went further than that. I mean, obviously I got into more hardcore stuff than I ever saw anybody doing around me when I was a kid, but it started when I was nine. So did I lose myself as a child along the way? I mean, that happened at an early age, but I did find myself. in the sense that whenever I was younger in high school, I wanted to be a Division I one college quarterback.

It was all I ever wanted to do when I was in high school because I found out I could throw a ball really well. I had a cannon for an arm. I worked hard at that, Ian. I worked my butt off. I get up in the mornings and work out. I go to school. I go to football practice.

I watch video. I watch game films. I go out and throw it through a tire swing and the field across street from my house. And I got it. I got the Division I college scholarship. When I was 20, I was a starting quarterback on a Division I team.

I made it. but after I got injured in college football, I never found anything to be that passionate about again. The prison experience, and when I was working on myself in prison after I got Mr. Jellon's letter, that's the first time I was ever passionate about something again like that. You know, it wasn't playing college football now. It was like, how do I build the best comeback story ever?

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land every time. Must be 21 or older to purchase alcohol. Product availability varies per regency app for details. I had that passion again from that 15 or 16 year old that wanted to be a division of college quarterback. Do you think losing yourself at that young age was what got triggered later on in life when you fell into addiction? I think it had something to do with it because I started putting alcohol on my system at 10. And I like the way it. it felt in. I'm not going to lie to you. I did. I like the way it felt. Like the buzz that I got from drinking. And I drank from that point on. So the first thing I was was alcoholic. And that's why I tell people, that's why I go to AA meetings, because alcohol was my first drug. And

alcohol was the first thing that did it for me. And I believe alcohol is probably the worst one of all the drugs out there. The effects that you see of alcoholics on alcohol far outweighs the effect is you see drug addicts on drugs out there. More people have problems with alcohol than any other drug. And that's where my problems started. My problems go back to alcohol. But our problems really go back to dealing with myself. I wasn't dealing with life.

I couldn't live life in life's terms. And so I put chemicals in. And anytime something wouldn't go my way, I would get high or get drunk, even at an early age. So, yeah, I mean, like at that young age, experimenting with with alcohol and drugs it gave me the the blueprint for how I was going to do it later in life when I when I had my career ended in 1996 was playing Texas A&M that day beautiful Saturday in college station go down the career and injury and after that I got into the hardcore drugs because all the alcohol and pot was going to dead in that kind of pain my career was my my identity was gone at 20 years old I didn't have an identity anymore remember all I want to do is a college football player so that was what we was gone. And once that was gone, I started putting in the hardcore drugs, but I had all that work from 10 years old on of drinking and doing drugs. Do you ever sit and think about the life you could have had if football turned out the way it was supposed to, or do you sit and think that was never

meant to be and this was where I'm supposed to be? Both. Now, I said, like, that was never meant to be because I'm sitting right here today. And I believe that God, whatever you call God, has a plan for people and puts them on a path, and you've got free will that you can make decisions on that. But I believe what happened in my life was supposed to happen because I'm supposed to be right here right now bringing people hope. But Ian, I get up every day and I pray for, I pray for two things every day. This is it, man. This is the only thing I pray for in life. I don't have a list of things I think of want or need. And I don't really think that whatever deity you believe in is sitting there like right in.

notes okay well so-and-so wants this today let me give them that no what i pray for what i believe that is when you i'm i'm a spiritual person i'm not religious i'm just i think religion is a man-made thing i think spirituality is your conscious contact with whatever you call god so i get up in the morning and i say hey god put in front of me what you need me to do today for you and let me recognize that when i see it because i don't want to miss whatever that is amen that's all i pray for. So I'm out looking for ways to serve other people and help other people out because I got this tremendous second chance in life. So I think that things that happened in my life were supposed to happen because I was supposed to be in this role helping and serving others. I don't believe my life is

only for my life. Ian, you're in a position of an ex-con that's doing big things right now. I'm in a position of an ex-con that's doing big things right now. If we stop doing the good work on the side, then we lose whatever it is, God, the universe, whatever you call it, you lose that edge. I really believe this happens to people, man. I think some people get out of prison and life starts going well and they quit doing the good things that got them there and they start slipping away. I'm afraid to not go out and serve people and help people out every single day because I believe if I stop doing that, then eventually I'll slide back into the whole mindset of the person, the guy that went to prison. So where would I be in life if it didn't happen, if I didn't go to prison? You know, probably on my third or fourth marriage, I probably have different families all over the country.

I wouldn't be able to hold down jobs for very long because I never was good at holding on a job. In fact, until recently, after being out of prison for a certain amount of time, the only thing I had done that long in life was go to prison. Like, I was in prison for seven years and three months and 18 days. when I got out of prison, I didn't have a job that ever had for seven years. I didn't go to college for seven years. The longest thing I'd ever done in life when I walked out of prison in 2015 was due time. And so now I'm determined in life to make that time count for something. So I believe this is the path I'm supposed to be on, and I believe you're on the path that you're supposed to be on too. If you could give yourself one piece of advice,

stand across from that person after he got into an accident after football, what would that be? get help go i mean like you're an addict i didn't understand addiction i mean i yeah i mean i'm i know that whatever i touch i want more of today in this life right now it's side story i mean i get a nitro cold brew from starbucks every morning like this thing i do duncan that's it man this thing is cold it gets in your veins fast i love it i love the feeling of a nitro cold brew in the morning man just get you going you know um i've always been an upper kind of guy and i've known that i've known that never been able to be really good at controlling what I put in. So I would have told that 20-year-old version, man, get help. You know, this stuff you're dealing with is alcoholism. It's addiction.

And there's a place for you to go. I would have told that younger version of himself to find the 12 steps. Because the 12 steps, you know, aren't just for people that are struggling with drugs and alcohol. It's a guide for living, man. The 12 steps, you know, you find out what holds you back in life. You start working on those things. You fix your stuff. You keep your side of the street clean. If you've got apologies, you have to make the people in life. You go make them. You make your amends.

Wherever you, wherever you've done harm, you try to fix the harm. Because then you freed the person that you've harmed, and you free yourself from the resentment you may develop on yourself. I would have started working the 12 steps a long time ago. When I was 20 years old, I would have told myself, go work the 12 steps, get a, you know, get a sponsor worth the steps, because then I would have healed that version of Damon West. When I got out of prison, my sponsor, I was a person. I was locked up for seven years, three months and 18 days in.

One of the first things I wanted to do was find a woman, right? I mean, it's been a long time. And I told my sponsor in AA, I was like, hey, man, listen, I need to go meet some, I need to meet a lady. He's like, no, you can't do that right now. And I got mad at him. Like, what do you mean? You're going to tell me I've got to wait 12 months or get a pet or get a plant?

He said, no. He said, I'm just telling you got to work these 12 steps. Because if you work these 12 steps, then you'll be a person worth being a relationship with it. Because a relationship is a two-way strong. and relationship isn't about you. It's about this other person, too. So he said, if you'll work these 12 steps, you'll be a person worth being in a relationship

with. And more importantly, when you work the 12 steps, you'll have a matrix to plug that person into, too, because you're worthy. You're worthy of love, too. And you don't want to get with the wrong person because the wrong person can bring you down. Ian, in my life right now, if I would have gotten with the wrong person, I mean, I met my soulmate, this woman named Kendall Romero, she was a nurse practitioner when I met her.

I was living with my parents for her bedroom. Like she met that guy I fell in love with that guy, right? But here's why dating sucked for me too. I'm a parole the rest of my life. How many guys did I talk to in prison that were there behind what they said was behind a woman, some kind of right?

Like something happened along the road in life and their stories all had a woman in it of some version of their version because there's always more to the story that you get from a lot of people that do time. But how many people did I meet this? There was a woman involved with the problems they have now.

that got them sent to prison a lot. Nick Saban once told me, he said, a good player learns from their old mistakes and a good player learns from their own mistakes and a great player learns from mistakes of other people. So I want to be a great player. I don't have to go make my own mistakes. But dating was not great because the person I'm on a date on parole for the rest of my life, I've got to trust that person with my life because at any time if they get mad, we get into an argument, whatever, and they pick up the phone and they call the police, he hit me, he touched me. He had sex with me when I didn't want to do it, he raped me or whatever. Any accusation against me, I'm done, Ian. I'm done. Because you and I will never get the benefit

of doubt again. You can't go in a courtroom and defend yourself. Whatever crime you can get accused of, You've got to avoid that right now in life because you're an ex-con. Remember, punishment never stops. You couldn't take the stand at a trial until a jury your version of it. The jury's going to think you're a liar, man. This guy will say anything to not go back to prison. And so what you have to do in a situation like that is back to controlling the controllables. In my life right now, I have rules that I live by, and I'm on the road right now with you.

Like tonight, if you want to go to dinner after this, I'll go to dinner with you. But if you were a female, I wouldn't go to a dinner with a woman that's not my wife. All right? I'm not going to be alone with a woman that's not my wife because I can't survive an accusation. That person could say anything and it's just my word against theirs. Man, I'm on the road a lot. I'm in elevators, right? An elevator when you're by yourself, that's a situation with a woman or a child gets on an elevator when I'm an elevator.

I get off. It doesn't matter what floor it is. I act like it's my floor and I can get another elevator. I can take the stairs. but I just can't be in a situation where someone could make an accusation against me. When I'm driving, and if I see someone on the side of the road, I'm not helping anybody on the side of the road. I don't know what they've got going on on the side of the road.

There was a guy I did time with. He got out of prison. Six months later, he's coming back. He got his mattress and got his bags and everything. I'm like, dude, that was six months, man, what the hell happened? Man, I got out. I got a job. Things are going well.

I finally got a used car and coming home from work one night. guy on the side of the road and I'm like man I've been blessed so much I'm going to help this guy out the guy was out of gas so they're pushing his vehicle to a gas station cops pull up they're gonna render aid they see these two people pushing a car so one of the cops runs a vend number of that car the car the car stolen in the car stolen in the side of the road everybody in the back seat no one believed the guy no one believed it wasn't his stolen car because he's an ex-con we don't have the same liberties people have out there in And especially if you're a high profile person like you are like I am, you can't stub your toe. Because if you go down, you'll take all these other people with you that look up to people like us for inspiration and hope. Because they do see that you can do. I mean, you've risen to a high level in the podcast world. I've risen to a high level in the speaking world. You know, with that comes a great responsibility.

And it's your responsibility. It's my responsibility to take care of me. Your responsibility to take care of you. And what that means is you've got to put yourself in a good situations. I mean, it's just as simple as that. On the road, man, I spend a lot of my time on the road in hotel rooms with a door lock sober. I've never seen anybody alone sober in a room with the door lock getting in any trouble. So, I mean, you've got to be very careful out there.

I'm not telling you this to preach to you, but you have a responsibility, man. You're in a big role now, you know? No, I agree. I have responsibility that... There's a lot of people that would love to see you and me fail, and a lot of people would love to see us fail. Social media would blow up if you failed. They would blow up if I failed.

Don't give it to them. And that's what my message is to everybody out there. Like you said it a while ago, you don't have to be doing this big podcast thing. You don't have to be doing this big speaking thing. It can be in your own community where you're the change at you. You're the coffee being. You're changed the world around you.

But the choices that you make have consequences, and you can take more people down than just you. Like there's collateral consequences to everything we do. Well, Damon, I appreciate you coming on the show today, man. This was great. Dude, thank you for the opportunity today. I've been, obviously, we've been trying to do this for two years, man. We finally got it done.

Yeah. So, man, thanks for the opportunity today, Ian. And keep doing what you're doing, man. You have a platform where you're the source that a lot of people go to. I mean, because I'm connected to a lot of ex-cons. And I'm going to catch heck for it. I say ex-con. I'm an ex-con.

I mean, that's just the word I use. Former incarcerated person, justice impacted, whatever. You give a lot of people a platform. Now, is everybody going to do something good with it? No, but you give them the same chance to sit in the seat and tell their story. I think at the end of the day, people just want to be heard. And you give people a lot of chance to be heard. So take care of yourself of you and keep doing your good work, brother.

Same to you, man. We'll have the links to everything you got going on in the description this episode. I appreciate it. And if anybody ever wants to find me, my website is damonwess.org. That's the best place to find me, man. Thank you.