Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a DEA Agent Inside Mexico — Here's the Truth About Cartels Nobody Tells You | Leo Silva

Episode Date: August 5, 2026

Leo Silva grew up in Texas, was recruited into the DEA at just 22 years old, and spent the next 28 years on the front lines of America's war on drugs — starting with undercover operations in Texas before being stationed in Monterrey Mexico as Resident Agent in Charge where he built cases against the Gulf Cartel and the infamous Los Zetas and eventually rose to Special Agent in Charge. In this episode of Locked In with Ian Bick, he shares what hunting cartels from the inside of Mexico really looked like — the undercover buys the high stakes operations the cartel violence and the bureaucracy that most people on the outside never hear about. He also breaks down how cartels have evolved over nearly three decades how Los Zetas changed everything about cartel violence and what the real truth about the war on drugs looks like from the person who lived it on the front lines for 28 years. _____________________________________________ #cops #cartels #truecrimestories _____________________________________________ Connect with Leo Silva: https://leosilvaauthor.com/ _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Timestamps:  00:00 Meet Leo Silva: DEA Agent's Story 01:18 Growing Up on the Border 02:18 Early Encounters With Cartel Culture 03:32 Choosing DEA Over Teaching 05:03 Training, Family Reactions, and Joining DEA 07:07 First Assignment in Texas 08:18 Undercover Work & Street Smarts 09:55 DEA Training vs. Real-World Experience 12:22 Being a Young Undercover Agent 14:04 Cartel Connections and Local Targets 17:44 Violence and Danger Along the Border 18:56 Cases, Informants, and Prosecution 21:14 Experiencing the Drug Trade Firsthand 24:47 Wiretaps and Changing Technology 27:14 Big Undercover Operations 29:20 Handling Risk and Mental Toll 32:08 Life as a DEA Agent in Texas 36:42 Transferring to Mexico: Bigger Targets 41:09 Adapting to Work in Mexico 44:00 Operations Against Zetas and Cartel Wars 48:19 Cartels, Corruption, and Survival 52:51 Cartel Violence and Evolution 57:08 Prioritizing Cases & Supervisory Challenges 01:01:17 Mexico Operations, Leadership, and Cartel Dynamics 01:07:59 Cartel Power, Money, and Tactics 01:12:00 Personal Toll, Stress & Burnout 01:17:21 Darkest Moments: Loss and Violence 01:19:44 Justice, Reforms & Mexico's Future 01:21:26 Retirement, Recovery, and Life After DEA 01:24:42 Reflections, Writing, and Final Thoughts _____________________________________________   To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka

My guest today is Leo Silva. He was recruited by the DEA at just 22 years old and spent the next 28 years hunting down some of the world's most dangerous cartel leaders. Today, he's pulling back the curtain on that career. I grew up in Brownsville, Texas, and it's a city that's right on the border with Matamodos, Mexico. So I grew up there, born and raised, went to school there. You know, if your listeners have read my book, my first book, Rain of Terror, you know, I grew up, And I started working at 14, 15 years old in a restaurant slash nightclub that was the place to go to in that area in Brownsville, Texas. And, you know, a lot of these people that lived in Matamotos that were members of the Gulf Cartel, I mean, actually founding fathers of the Gulf Cartel, would go to that nightclub.

And guess who served them their drinks and cleaned up after them and everything? Just truly right here. I was a busboy. And my father got me that job because my father was one of the assistant managers. So here I am not even knowing who these guys are. But, I mean, I could tell there were somebody very important because whenever they came in, the head waiter would say, hey, clear that table for these people. And there's a family of like six people sitting there.

I said, what do you mean? We'll tell those people they have to move because these guys are coming in. I'm 14 years old, man. And I'm like, I'm sorry, but you guys are going to have to move. move and they're like, well, why? And I said, well, you know, these people already had a reservation. Just making up whatever. They look and see who they are. They got up and moved. They didn't ask any questions, you know. So I was, I was just intrigued. I was like, I asked my dad, I said, who are those guys? What's going on? And he says, don't ask questions. Just do what they say,

bring them what they want, collect your tips and go home, you know. Later I found out, I find out that it was, you know, Juan Garcia Abregor, who was one of the founders of the Gulf Cartel. and his uncle, Juan N. Aguera. So, it's, you know, later, when I became a DEA agent, I didn't know how close I was to these guys until, you know, I was already an agent. You know, I said, man, these guys were the guys that used to go to my dad's club. You know, so that was, that was one of my experiences as growing up in Brownsville, Texas. You know, so I went to college there, graduated from college, and I went to the DEA Academy in February of 1987. And, uh, that's That was a three-month academy, and I finished that school and was assigned to McCallon, Texas.

Would people talk about cartels like they do now back then as kids or just in the communities or even on the news? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, but it wasn't like they do now. I mean, it was kind of like whispered, you know, low-key. And they didn't call them cartels back then. It's just like, you know, they call them mafia, you know, organized crime or the cartel word, didn't really exist or wasn't thrown around as much as it is nowadays. But yeah, everybody knew who they were.

And it's just like, you know, that's so-and-so. Just be kind of quiet about it, you know, be discreet about it. And that's how it was. You know, I'm talking about the late 70s, early 80s. So, so, yeah, but, you know, that's the environment that was Brownsville, Texas, and Matamoros, Mexico. So, I mean, it was pretty well-known by people that live there. Why did you want to go to the DEA? What influenced you?

I'll tell you what. I was in college and I didn't start off college. I didn't go to college to be a law enforcement officer, study, you know, law enforcement, criminal justice. I went to study English literature. My goal was to become an English teacher. And I was in, I don't know, my junior year. And my mom used to work at a law firm.

And one of her coworkers was married to a DEA agent. So my mom and her coworker would talk. and she would, my mom would talk about me and my college and this and that. And this lady would tell her husband, who was an agent, and he kind of became intrigued. And he said, well, this guy, he speaks both languages. He's making these good grades. He said, he'd be a good recruit for DEA. So he started recruiting me.

And I was like, man, I'm in my last year of college. You know, I can't just switch majors. He goes, you don't have to. Just keep on with what you're studying. And after you're finished and you got your degree, you can apply for DEA. And well, that's what I did. But one of the things that kind of really influenced me was in 1985, the year I graduated from college, Enrique Camarena was kidnapped in Mexico. And Mr. Tamayo, the guy that recruited me was, he had been recruited me since prior to that.

And when that incident happened, I made up my mind. I said, you know what? You know, I know it's a dangerous job, but that's what put me over the top to go ahead and commit myself to doing a, this job. Was it common for people that didn't have prior law enforcement experience to join DEA back then in the 80s? Not really, but one of the reasons they recruited guys that didn't have experiences because they could mold them into the kind of agent they wanted them to be. So some of these other law enforcement officers have already been through other academies, and they already had different mentalities or habits. And somebody that's never been in law enforcement,

well, we can shape this guy the way we want him to be. So that's what worked in my advantage. So they were able to, I was able to make it and get through the academy. How did your parents react to you joining the DEA? You know, my mom was very supportive. She was very, my dad was kind of hesitant because he said, man, this is the dangerous job. You know, we had Enrique Camarena kidnapped. And then in 1986, an agent in McAllen, Texas, where I was assigned, was killed in December of

1986. So my dad was like, you know, are you sure you want to do this? He said, you already had your path, you know, outlined and now you want to do this. He says, I disagree. But I went ahead and did it anyway, right? But yeah, my dad was kind of opposed to it at first. But that's just him being protective, you know, I understand it. But, you know, are you going to change a 22-year-old kid's mind? You know, I don't think so. How would your colleagues have described you coming out of the academy? What were you like? Well, I was one of the youngest guys in the academy. There was another guy that was 22 like me.

I was 22 when I went in. And I guess they described me as, you know, green, raw, you know, just like a puppy, you know. It's like, I mean, that's how I would describe myself. It's just puppy that needs a lot of guidance, you know. But we all got, we all established like a brotherhood. You know, I was a member of basic agent class 48. And we still stay in touch. A lot of us stay in touch.

And it's just like once you get through that, that I can. It's like a brotherhood that that never ends, never goes away. And I'm proud of that, you know, and I'm proud of my classmates and we still stay in touch, most of us. So Texas was your first station? Yes, McCallan, Texas, right on the border, right where I came from, you know, so. And I got to the office in McCallon, and it's outlined in one of the first chapters of my book here, my newest book, Narco Tales. But I was there, and when you're in the academy, they say, when you go to your assigned spot, you know, here we're wearing coats and ties, you go there and you show yourself as a professional. You know, you wear your coat and your tie, and you be ready, you know, to do the job.

And so the first couple of days I'm there with my coat and tie, and then one guy that was a much older agent, and he eventually became my mentor in DEA. I see him, you know, one day and he's like, hey, man, you ever bought Chiva? Chiva's heroin. And I said, well, no, sir. He says, where are you going to buy some today? So go home and take off your suit and your tie and come back in some street clothes. And by 2 o'clock in the afternoon, I was buying heroin on the street.

You know, I didn't even know what heroin looked like, man, you know. But that's how I started. My third day on the job, I'm out on the street buying heroin, you know. So it was pretty active. I mean, and I guess, you know, the first couple of years or several years, that's all I did, just undercover work on the street. So, you know, it helped a lot that I was bilingual, fluent in both languages, especially a street talk, you know, growing up in Brownsville, Texas, you know, and I grew up in a neighborhood

that was, you know, low-income neighborhood, and I had a lot of friends that were, you know, gang members and street guys and you got to talk to talk, man. So whenever I did undercover work, I already knew the lingo, you know, what these guys, you know, needed to hear. There's some guys that don't talk it and, you know, guys are suspicious of them. So I had that advantage, you know, so. Do you feel like you had the proper training from the academy to do that type of undercover

worker? Or is that something that's learned on the job from experience? You know, in the academy, there's sessions where they teach us undercover and what it's all about, but the academy is not going to teach you what happens out on the street for real, you know, and that can be taught. Undercover operations cannot be taught. You have to, it's a lost art, and it's something you have to have that's kind of innate, you know, and some people can do it, and other people can. Now, not everybody can do undercover work, you know, but, you know, some other agents have other strengths that we focus on, but when they see it, you know, they see

somebody that can do the undercover, they're going to use you as much as they can, you know, so then that's what happened to me. And I have no regrets, man. It was, it was great. I had a lot of fun. Because you were so young, did anyone even suspect you to being a cop? Well, it was, it's funny. And I tell it hearing some of these stories, uh, they did because they're like, well, you're a cop. You're too clean cut. You know, I just got out of the academy, you know. And, uh, you're too clean cut. Your fingernails are too clean, you know. They notice everything, especially the women. women traffickers. And there's a story in here that's called, the chapter's called shoes. And this lady just been out of prison, you know, she'd been in prison for a long time,

and she was trying to sell some heroin. And I go up to her and she's smoking a cigarette, you know, and she sees me, looks me up and down, you know, just, and the first thing out of her mouth is that, you're a cop. And I said, well, wow, excuse me, why are you saying that? only cops wear shoes like that, you know, and I had some of these sketchers, you know, the hikers, you know, hiker-type boots things, which we do use because we go on operations and we use those kind of heavy boots and I could have kicked myself, you know, said, man, I didn't, I didn't wear my other shoes, man, my boots or whatever, you know. And she was right on the money, but I was able to talk my way out of it and eventually she

sold me the heroin. But, I mean, she was right on the money, you know, so they notice everything. So the first thing she knows was my shoes. And I have a whole chapter in here called Shoes that talks about that deal. Now, why would the DEA send you to a state that you're from if you're doing undercover work? Was that normal? It's not. You know, it just so happened that in 1987, before I got hired, the way they would assign you is like, okay, you're going to Miami, you're going to L.A., you're going to New York.

It's just one of those three, you know. And if you're lucky, you got somewhere else, you know. And I was thinking I was going to get sent to L.A. You know, that was my mentality when I was in the academy. I'm like, man, you know, I hope they don't send me to L.A. because I can't afford it. You know, it's too expensive out there. Or New York, you know, I wasn't going to be able to afford that.

So I was terrified, man. But at the time, in 1987, Colombian drug traffickers were shifting their, their roots to South Texas and the Texas border, the whole southwest border, actually. So we were seeing a lot more cocaine loads being. and they wanted more bilingual people, bilingual speakers down on the border. And nobody wanted to go. Well, when I get into the academy, he said, well, this guy, he wants to go, send him. You know, so they sent me, which to me, I was lucky, you know, because I didn't get to go to

New York or L.A. We're out of, I don't know, starved for the first year for my career. But in essence, I came back home. I came back to McAllen, Texas, which is about an hour away from, you. my home town of Brownsville. How often would you run into people you knew while working on the job? Not very often because whenever we're going to do an undercover deal, we already know who we're dealing with.

And if it's somebody that I knew, well, obviously I can't do it, because they're going to know what I do. So we already knew. We already had a picture of who we're dealing with. And they never sent me into somebody that was familiar with who I was. So that was an advantage for us. Now, the targets you're going after, are they cartel-related? or are they just normal drug dealers operating on the side of the border?

Well, down there, they're all related to cartel people because they're getting their supply from either the Gulf cartel. And back then, there was a Michoacan cell that was operating in McAllen and also some from Durango, which is way up close to Sinaloa, especially the heroin. A lot of the heroin came from Durango, and some came from Waxaca and Guerrero. So, you know, they're all connected to a cartel.

And these guys were their distributors over here in the valley. So, yeah, you know, that was pretty common. I mean, they didn't say I'm associated with so-and-so. Sometimes they did, but not all the time, you know. Now at this point in time, were they violent on this side of the border in Texas at all? On some occasions they were we didn't see that like I say you know one of our agents got killed in in 1986 prior to my arriving So yeah there was there was a level of violence there But every time we did a deal we try to mitigate that you know so

So I didn't personally experience any Violence there you know I did have a gun pointed at me one time in an undercover deal But but that was that was mitigated really quick and it didn't lead to something tragic you know. Now, how do you or the DEA decide whether it's going to be a local case or a DEA case? Well, pretty much we have our stable of informants. And if they go out, they're, you know, they're trying to get paid. They're trying to make money for themselves. So if it's one of our informants that went and located the target, well, we're going to use it and it's going to be a DEA case. And a lot of the times it's up to the U.S. attorney that's prosecuting the case.

you know, if he doesn't like the way the case looks or the quantity is too small, they won't prosecute it. But most of the time, we knew what those thresholds were. And we met them pretty much all the time. And I don't think I ever had a case that was declined, you know. Were you shocked by how many drugs there were coming in and out? I was because as a 22-year-old kid, I really had no clue, you know. I mean, you know, guys in high school, they're dealing joints or whatever. but when I got to the office in McAllen, Texas, my first day, I opened the door and I go in there and knock on the receptionist window, announcing my presence. She, you know, first of all, I opened the door and the office smells like marijuana.

I mean, it's just overwhelming, you know. I'm like, damn, you know, this is overpowering, man. And then they showed me the vault, and it was just jam-packed with marijuana bails, you know. And it was so powerful that when you got home, your clothes still smelled like marijuana. You know, that's how, that was my introduction to the big leagues, you know. So it was like, wow, I was shocked. You know, I had never, ever in my life seen that much. And I had been on the job maybe, maybe two months, two months in July of 87,

when one of the senior agents had this huge undercover deal involving several countries in several states. It involved the delivery of 150,000 pounds of marijuana to the port in Brownsville, Texas. And all of us had to serve as undercover offloading that ship, those two ships. So, you know, you go from, you know, an agent, a rookie agent, or just a high school guy that's seen the guys, you know, deal joints, to offloading a ship with 150,000 pounds. So yeah, it was like, holy shit, what is this? I mean, they had these nets going into the cargo hold of the boat and pulling out all these bales of marijuana.

They're from Columbia. And as a loader, I was like, when is this ever going to end, man? That net just kept going in there and hauling out thousands and thousands of pounds of marijuana, man. And it was 150,000 pounds. Now, what would happen to that? It just gets burned? No, no, it was a control delivery. there was buyers that were actually set up already in Atlanta and Dallas and other locations.

So we loaded up and put them up into trucks and sent them out and shipped them out. And those people that received them to buy them got arrested. So it was a major, major deal. And well, I played a small role just, I was an offloader. I was a grunt, you know, but it was a huge undercover deal. And as a 22-year-old agent, you know, I've been on the job two months. And I'm like, wow, you know, I was in awe, you know, perfectly. much. Did you have a social life when you first get on the job?

Actually, yeah, you know, and it was the social life with my mentor, my partners, and sometimes after, you know, a hard day at work, you know, executing like five search warrants in one day or whatever, you know, we'd go have beers at the bar, you know, and that's how we, you know, let off steam. And, you know, as a young agent, you know, if you don't go, you know, they look at you different. So I went, you know. And it was rough, man, because I was 22 years old. I wasn't on their level, man. No way.

But, yeah, we had a social life. And I had kids at the time, too. And, you know, I made sure that we spent time together. Was it what you expected first starting on the job? It was beyond my expectations. You know, I really didn't know what to expect. The academy prepares you. But being out there is just different, you know.

And it was beyond. what I ever dreamed or expected, man, you know, so, so it was just, I mean, you're offloading 150,000 pounds of grass, man, and then, you know, one of the agents seized, you know, five kilos of Coke, five kilos of Coke in 1987 was, was big, you know, now it's nothing, you know, but, but those things were happening and I was seeing all this and, and just, I was just in awe of all of it, you know, and these guys, the older agents, they do, conduct a big drug deal and finish it. It's just like, oh, it's nothing now. Now let's move on to the next one. You know, and I'm still like, you know, a starstruck, like if you can call it that. And they're like,

hey, boy, get over it. It's time to move on and go to the next deal. But it was fine, man. I have no regrets. The old regrets at all. What do you think was the most important lesson you learned on the job early on that carried with you throughout your career? Resilience. You know, just early in my career, there was some cases that didn't go the way I expected. In 1991, I conducted, I was a case agent on the first wiretap ever in McAllen, Texas. And we did. And back then, cell phones were just emerging as, you know, as a tool and drug traffickers were using cell phones in 1991. The big lunch bag, you know, the lunch pail thing, you know.

So I did a wiretap on two cell phones. phones and a business phone. And it didn't turn out the way I expected. And I was pretty bummed out about it. But my partner, I mean, his name is Mario Alvarez. May he rest in peace. But, you know, he's like, hey, man, snap out of it, dude. You know, it's not the end of the world, you know. There's other cases. Snap out of it. And let's go back to the basics. Let's go back to doing your undercover work like you used to do. And let's just get your mindset back to what is supposed to to be. You know, you're an agent, you know. Don't let this, don't let this defeat you. So that's what, that's one of the lessons I learned is resilience, you know, because I put a lot of effort

into that case. It was a lot of work and many years of work and it didn't turn out the way I wanted, but Mario taught me it's not the end of the world, you know, resilience, keep forging on, you know, be relentless. And then that's, that's what, one of the lessons that, that carried me through my career, especially when I was in Monterey. you know, Monterey, Mexico, it was chaotic, you know, so that lesson got me through a lot of hard times. What's a case agent? Case agent is when, for instance, you're the one that's managing the case.

You're calling the shots. You're meeting with the prosecutor. You're trying to get the case to a prosecutable level, right? And you're the guy that's doing it. The U.S. attorney's going to call you. Your boss is going to be asking you, how's that case going, man? Are we there yet? You know, so you're the case agent is the guy that that's, that's directing the case,

that's, you know, reporting to the bosses and saying, here's, here's where we are. We've seized this much so far. You make the decisions on where the case goes forward. How much experience do you have to have before you become a case agent? Well, you know, we try to bring up the younger guys slowly. And we usually attach now when the agents are assigned a field training officer. So the younger agents know what it's like to get a case and bring it forward all the way to prosecution, to trial if it goes to trial or not. So we kind of try to take the young age through the whole process.

And once they're familiar with that process, you pretty much give them their freedom to do what they want. So it doesn't take long, I mean, especially on the border, because in the border, we have cases every single day. you know, we respond to Border Patrol seizures. Border Patrol seizes a ton of dope. We go pick it up and we present the evidence to the prosecutor and try to get the defendants to trial or see if there's enough evidence that they'll plead guilty or, you know, you're the one that runs the show and then takes it to the prosecutor. So, yeah.

Now, how did wiretapping change the job when it first started there? Well, personally, it was a. especially with cell phones. You know, I had worked on wiretaps before in other offices as a, you know, one of the guys that listened to the conversations and translated the tapes and all that stuff. And when I first worked, my first wiretap, who was all on fixed phones, landlines. So you always knew if the guy was calling from his house, you know he was there at his house. So you knew that surveillance could set up at the house and follow him wherever he needed to go.

But with cell phones, it was different. Cell phones, you start hearing them talk. You don't know where he is. He doesn't necessarily have to be at home. He can be somewhere else. So that was one of the challenges we met when we first started way back in the early 90s. He was like, hey, well, where is this guy? We can't just go set up on his house because he's not there.

So that was a big challenge, you know. And now there's so much technology that, you know, you can find where he's at really easy, you know, just with cell tower location and stuff like that. We didn't have that back then. So that was a big challenge. And now, now everybody uses phones. So that's pretty much one of the major ways that DA operates to get intelligence. Were the criminals making a lot of mistakes when cell phones first started to be tapped because they weren't aware? Yes, because they would just talk freely about everything, you know, no codes at all.

Just, you know, hey, I'm going to go do this. And the problem was with us is like, well, where is he going to go? You know, where is he? Where is he going to go meet? I'll meet you over there. We met last time. But sometimes they just talk freely, man. And it was like, oh, shit, you know, let's go over here and hit this house.

You know, so, yeah, they made a lot of mistakes because they thought, they didn't think that their phone could be intercepted. Now when you were doing undercover buys, how long are you going undercover for? It's not like the movies where you go for a year and stuff like that. It's really short. You know, there was one guy that it took me several months to finally bust them. And it's in here. It's one of the stories that I have in here.

We actually flashed him $4 million. And that was the extent of the deal. It was kind of a complicated deal. He was from Mexico City. and those bunch of Mexican traffickers. His guys, his associates went to Miami. So they wanted the money. We were the buyers.

So they wanted the money close to the border. So once the deal went through, the guy that I met with could get that money and take it to Mexico right away. So that was the plan. So once the dope was delivered in Miami to our other undercover agents over there, and I had already shown this guy the money

because he wanted to see the money. He was pressing me hard and I said, hey, man, you know, I just can't get $4 million just like that. You got to give me some time. So we finally showed him the money. He starts trembling, you know, I said, pick it up, man, look at it, take it. And he was looking at it and he's trembling. And so I had other undercover agents come, pick up the money and take it away. I said, okay, now the ball's in your court.

So you've got to tell your boys that you already seen the money. So it's time for them to deliver because my guys are waiting. So they ended up delivering. Took this guy down. The thing about this story that stands out to me is that I had this guy so convinced that I was a buyer, this money man, that he was invited me to his sister's wedding, which was going to take place a couple of months later. When all this is done, I want you to go down to Mexico City with me and, you know, you can come and visit me at my house. My sister's getting married. You're invited to the wedding. You know, you stay with us.

It was at that level. When we finally, you know, revealed ourselves as undercover agents, this guy just started crying, man, right there, you know. This whole life just went like that, you know. And those things are, they stand out in my mind, you know, because it was tough to do that, but it's a job, man, and we had to do our job. And, you know, I think if we hadn't had done it,

this guy, this guy could have been one of the biggest traffickers, you know, in Mexico, but he didn't because we stopped. them that day. And that story isn't here, you know, in this book. No, in a case like that, is your cover blown when they time they get busted or other people have no idea? I actually, I actually went and revealed myself and showed him my credentials. He said, I told him, you've been, you've been dealing with a DE agent all this time. And he just couldn't believe it, you know, so. Now, major players like that, do you think that ever hampers other cases, uh, because they talk and tell other people that you're DEA? I'm sure it does, but, I mean,

just like my partner said, you know, whether it's a success or a setback, we've got to keep moving forward, you know. So I'm sure he did tell his people in Mexico City, you know, and I'm sure it's always in the back of every trafficker's mind, you know, when it meets somebody new. So, yeah, I think so. Now that $4 million, was that real? It's real. And where does that come from, just seize money? DEA headquarters wires, wires the money to a bank. we go physically to the bank and pick it up.

We went to the office and it was already counted at the bank. We just went and separated into these duffel bags, these huge duffel bags that we had for the deal. So yeah, it was physical money. It was real money, you know, and you could smell the ink, you know, off the bills, you know. So, yeah. And now you're responsible to bring it back to the bank and deposit it. Absolutely. Yeah.

And it wasn't just me handling it. We had a whole upper, the whole office was out there, you know, protecting that money. So that money wasn't going to go anywhere. Now, when you do a big bus like that, do you feel in danger? Are you able to sleep peacefully? Are you looking over your back? I did not feel any danger, you know, because, again, we study these guys. We know who they are.

So I didn't feel any danger at all. I mean, just when you're in that role, I guess kind of like some actors, you know, a method actor or whatever, you're in that role that kind of takes you a couple of days to, to separate yourself from being that guy, you know. So, yeah, in some ways, it affects you a little mentally in that sort. How long does a station last for? How long are you working in McAllen? Well, it can last as long as you want, you know.

But at any time, DEA can pull you out and send you anywhere they want. But pretty much the way I've seen it, you know, you can stay in one post if you don't mess up, if you just do your job, you know, and then you can stay if you want. A lot of guys, usually after four years or after they become a 13, a GS-13 agent, which is a senior agent status, they can start putting in for offices elsewhere in the United States or for overseas positions. So that's how it works and pretty much stay as long as you want if you don't mess up. What did you end up doing? After, let me see, I started in 87, after, well, it was 2001, I put in for an assignment in Welaada, Mexico, and I got chosen for it.

So, so I had been in my calendar for almost 15 years before, before I got chosen for that assignment. And I could have stayed in McAllen, you know, but I didn't feel like I was going to grow as an agent if I didn't go anywhere else. And again, going back to my partner, my mentor, he was in Guadalajara in the 70s. So he would, when we got together and drank beer, he'd tell me all these stories about Guadalajara and all the work. And one of the things he said, if you want to hunt big game, you've got to go where the big

game is at. And that's when I said, well, shit, I'm going to put in for Mexico and see what I get. You know, so I put in for Walaala. And I was fortunate enough to get that assignment. And the work was incredible. I mean, he was not lying. We were dealing with the biggest traffickers, you know. It's like a who's who of traffickers.

I mean, Chapo Usman, Ramona Riano Felix, Benchamina Riano Felix, you know, Nacho Coronel, you know, the biggest of the biggest, man. You know, so, so Mayo Zambada, you know, and it was great. It was great working out there. And after I did my, well, while I was in, well, had I put in for a supervisor, supervisor assignment, and I got it. And that's when I was sent back to McAllen, Texas. But as a supervisor, as a promotion.

So I was there four years as a supervisor. And then I went to Monterey. I put it again for Mexico on Mexico assignment, and I got sent to Monterey, and I was fortunate enough to get that assignment. But Monterey was just a whole other world, man. Because at that time, the Cetas and the Gulf Cartel were at war with each other. and it was just chaos and monterey was ground zero for that war so man it was just every day that was

just acts of violence throughout the city you know people were terrified that's why my first book is called reign of terror because they just terrorized not only the monterey area but the entire country you know so it was it was chaos you know and i ended up retiring out of monterey what was the biggest difference for you when you first went to mexico from working the u.s versus in mexico to go. The biggest difference is the cooperation between the counterparts. When I got to, when I got to Guadalajara, let me see, Enrique Camarena had been kidnapped in 85. So by the time I got there, I mean, 16 years had passed. But it was still like an open wound, man. You know, those guys didn't want us there. There was still a lot of resentment from what happened during that time. So that's one of the

things I noticed right off the bat, they really didn't want us there, and they didn't want us snooping around in their backyard. So we had to work really hard to get that level of cooperation we had when I got to Monterey. When I got to Monterey, we had an outstanding amount of cooperation with the government of Mexico, and it has a lot to do with whoever's the president at the time. I was in Guadalajara was President Fox, Vicente Fox. When I got to Monterey, it was Felipe Calderon. who was totally cooperative, his administration was totally cooperative with us. And I don't think we've seen that level of cooperation since he left office with the Mexican government. So, you know, that was one of the things that stood out for me.

Now do the locals know your DEA or like the local authorities? They know right off the bat, you know. When I got to Monterey, the minute I got there, everybody knew, you know, because we work out of the U.S. embassy or the U.S. consulate, you know, so. the minute I get there, everybody knows. All the police chiefs, all the hire-ups and the governor, you know, the attorney general of the state. I got to meet them at this big party they had. So everybody knows the minute I got there, you know, so it's no secret. And we really can't hide, you know.

In Mexico, we can't do undercover work, you know, because we're guests in their country. We have no authority over there. our job is to provide intelligence to the government of Mexico to go after high value targets. How do you even know where to start as a new agent over there? Well, we knew at the time because at the time, one of the top leaders of the Cetas was Miguel Treviño, Z40. And he had killed several of our close counterparts. So when I first get to Monterey, my boss from Mexico City calls me, said, I need you to come out to Mexico City. I want to have a meeting with you.

So I meet with him and he says, your job when you're down there is to take out the leadership structure of the SETA's. I want this Trevino guy and I want his boss, Leverto Lascano, Z3. He says, that's your, that's your mission, those are your orders. And that's what I want.

So we focus entirely on Miguel Terrini. So I knew what our mission was and what our target was. And when I got there, I hadn't been there maybe four months or five months when the SETA's attacked our U.S. Consulate. They launched three grenades at our consulate. Luckily nobody was there. It was after hours.

And they shot up the front entrance of the building. And it was that incident that started pretty much the conflict between DEA and Los Zetas. After that incident, we, and it's in my case. first book, Rain of Terror. We had already gathered a lot of intelligence on Trevino and some of his associates. And he had a plaza boss in Monterey, who they called Kanikon, Big Marble. It translates to Big Marble. And he was the one that led the crew that threw the grenades at our U.S. consulate and shot up the consulate. We already knew where he slept. We already knew he spent a lot of time at a certain location. So we developed a plan with the federal police and went in his.

hit one of his locations. In that location, we found nine tons of marijuana and lots of firearms and grenades. And we had at the time an ATF expert with us, and he was able to determine that the grenades that were launched at our consulate was in the same lot number as the grenades that we seized in the warehouse. So that's the link. That was the evidence. We knew it was him. We were sure it was at the time now. So we start going after him. We hit his house. We had his house. he was sleeping. And it's like something out of the movies. He gets into an armored vehicle in the garage, slams through the garage door, big shootout with the federal police and some of the army, and he escapes. So that was the start of everything for us, man. And after his escape,

he was upset that some of the army officials participated in the raid. So he directed his set-as to kidnap members of the army, the Mexican. army when they went on leave from the base. They actually set up on the military base. And one of these young guys went out on a pass, a three-day passer for the weekend. They picked them up, tortured them, and slashed their throats and threw them in the bed of the river down there in Monterey. They killed nine soldiers, all below the age of 23, you know, 23 to 21 years old. And that's when the army got pissed off. And they called us and said, we want to meet with you guys. And this is where I say the level of cooperation was different than when I was in

Guala Hara. They called us. And now we have a common enemy. You know, he launched grenades at our consulate. He killed nine other soldiers. So we unite. We make an alliance. That was pretty much unprecedented at the time. And we went after him with everything, you know, and we're able to catch him several months later. And when they caught him, you know, he cried like a baby, but that's the story. That's how we started, you know, generating these alliances. And shortly afterwards, we were able to do many operations with the Army, the Special Forces guys. And later on, when that little team broke up, we were able to recruit Semar, who is the Mexican Navy or Marines. And those guys, the same thing. I mean, we just started conducting operations against the Settos.

the leadership structure, not just any guy on the street. And we're very successful with them. And those guys are outstanding. I mean, they're just really professional, and they know what they're doing. And once there's a plan in place, they're going to go. You know, so it was very stressful, but at the time, it was very rewarding when we were accomplished what we wanted to accomplish, you know. Now, is someone like him extradited to the U.S.?

because he attacked a consulate? Well, Canicone didn't make it that far. When Chapo, Guzman, escaped the second time from Mexico City, the Canicon was actually his neighbor. He was in the neighboring cell from the Chapo. And mysteriously, like, maybe five days after Champo escaped, Canicon is found dead in his cell. Heart attack, but he was like 33 years old.

I was like, okay, well, that's kind of weird, but whatever, you know, he's gone. So it was just a weird coincidence. I don't know if it's a coincidence or they killed him to shut him up or whatever. Who would have killed him if someone did kill him? Probably maybe the way I think is maybe he heard the digging that was going on in the cell next door and they were afraid he was going to say something. So they just wiped him out. So that's just my perspective.

I'm not saying that's what happened. But it's just weird that a 33 old guy in perfect health has a heart attack and die. and dies, five days after Chapu'sman escapes. So he didn't make it, but the Z-40 was one of the 29 defendants that were not extradited, they were expelled from Mexico in February of last year. And he's awaiting trial in Washington, D.C. So that's going to be very interesting to see. Now, how hard was it to navigate working with the local law enforcement while dealing with corruption

and who was on the cartel payroll and who wasn't? It's very hard. But usually we didn't really deal with them. We were dealing with the Army and the Navy and the federal police. So we hardly dealt with the locals unless it was something urgent, local that we needed. Somebody, one of our consular members got into an accident or whatever, that's what we would call them. But to give out sensitive details on high-value targets like this, no, we didn't. we didn't share that information with them.

Are the Federale's less corrupt and the army less corrupt than the locals? Well, we had a team of guys that was trained by DEA in Quantico, Virginia. They were our special investigative unit guys. And they're supposed to be vetted, you know, and they go through the polygraphs and all these tests. And they're vetted, you know, by us. And they're supposed to be on the up and up. The problem is their superiors. Their superiors didn't go through that training.

The superiors didn't go through that training. The superiors are not loyal to DEA. So that was where the problem, you know, that's where there was a crack in the wall, I guess, you know. Because those guys were, we had some good team members. But it's just their leadership that was corrupt. I mean, you have Genaro Garcia Luna, who was one of the directors of that unit,

was sentenced to life in prison. And then one of, one of the other leaders that I spoke to many times is a fugitive. I mean, so yeah, it wasn't pretty much the guys. It was their leadership that was the problem. Was Chappo in prison by the time you got there the first time, or was he still out? He was out. He was out and he was caught.

Then he escaped again. So we got to see all that. We were down there. And was Choppo, the heavy hitter back then that he would become later on as well? well. Well, yeah, and those times he was. I mean, when he started in the 70s and the 80s, he was not, you know, he was just a grunt, you know, but, but yeah, he eventually got to that level. Why? Because everybody else got killed, you know, and he was, and he was one of Mayo Sanbada's friends, so, so he, he was loyal to Maya Somada, and that's why he was able to,

to get so high in the organization. But, but actually, the Settas were at war with Chappu's people and they wanted to kill him. So, and they got pretty close, but the Settas had too many problems because they had the army, the Navy, DEA, FBI, everybody after them, including, you know, Chapo-Uzman and some of these other traffickers. So they, they couldn't accomplish their goal. Would cartels, like snitch on other cartels? Absolutely.

Give you information, help you work with you guys? Absolutely. You know, we weren't going to, we weren't going to, we weren't going to, discharges. discard the information because, you know, one guy's snitching out another one. I mean, every piece of intel is useful. So yeah, absolutely. It happened a lot, you know. So do you think it's hypocritical then, you know, some of these guys talking about no snitching or what they do to snitches in their own organization? Absolutely. Because in the end, everybody, everybody talks, man, you know. If you see, if you see the drama that's going on

with the Ceno loo cartel, you know, you have now, the Ceylono cartel is split into the Cchap faction, the Chapitos, the sons of Chapo, and now the sons of Mayo Zambada. You know, so, so Mayo Zambada's son, older son, Vicente, testified against Chapo Usman. So now the Chapo's sons are trying to get revenge on them, so they kidnapped Mayo Sanbada and bring them to the United States, you know, so it's just, it's like a tennis game. They're going back and forth with all these revenge deals, you know, So, yeah, they snitch on each other.

You know, they'll try to kill each other. And, you know, they'll try to hand them to us on a silver platter, you know. What cartel do you think was the biggest supplier of drugs to the U.S. in the 80s and 90s? In the 80s, well, without question, it was a Gulf cartel. Because Juan Garcia Abrago was the first one to strike a deal with the Colombian traffickers. So in the 80s, it was definitely Juan Garcia-Abrigo. One of the stories I write in here is a base. on a true story. There's a story in here called 5 kilos. And way back in 1989, the Department of

Public Safety, Texas Department of Public Safety, arrested a couple of guys on an undercover deal that they were taken care of a stash house and they decided to steal 5 kilos and sell it on their own. And the person they went and met up with was an informant and that informant took him to an undercover DPS agent. And when they made the deal for the kilos, the guy trips and goes to get the five kilos out of a house, DPS follows him, identifies a house. He turns in the five kilos, they bust him, they go back to the house and hit it. Well, guess what?

There's nine tons inside that house. And that nine tons belonged to Juan Garcia-Abrego. So I'm talking 1989, nine tons. You know, that was unimaginable, man, you know? So I would say, yeah, he was one of the. biggest cocaine traffickers in the 80s. Now, what was a major drug? Was cocaine the biggest, or was it marijuana or heroin?

When I first got to McAllen, it was marijuana and heroin. And we saw cocaine, but not at that level. I mean, and then it seems like from one year to the next, it just like exploded. I mean, you're getting nine tons of coke out of a house, man. You know, so, you know, it was incredible. And then we started doing deals for like 40 kilos at a time, you know. know, undercover deals. So yeah, it just seemed like from one year to the next, it just boom, it just exploded into something outrageous. When you do a bust in Mexico, what happens to the

product that seized? Well, we don't, we don't participate in that. A lot of times what I've seen is the military will douse it with aviation fuel and set it on fire. That was a way of disrupting, you know, destroying the evidence. So in the United States, there's a more rigid, you know, protocol that we have to follow. You know, we send it to the lab and they destroy it in incinerators or whatever. So, but in Mexico, sometimes they just take it out to a field and burn it, you know. So I've seen that a couple of times down in Mexico. Now, when you guys make an arrest in Mexico, does Mexico have the first, I guess,

right to the prisoner to charge them or? Absolutely. We have zero rights over there. I mean, they're the ones that, it's their country. we have to coordinate with the prosecutor, the appropriate prosecutor over there, and they're the ones that take the case. Once we give them the intel and they do the operation and they get their guy, that's it, we're out. And now it's up to them to prosecute him. Now, is it the agent in charge of that division or sector that's giving who the targets are

for whatever your assignment is? Or where does that come from? I was in charge of the Monterey office and my agents would obtain the intelligence. and we'd pass it on as a group, as a group to either the Army or the Navy to conduct the operation. So, yeah, that's how it works. We'll gather the Intel and give it to them in a package, and they go ahead and act however they feel it's appropriate. Will they usually follow your advice in Intel? We don't really, we'll give them the intel, but we don't tell them how to run the operation because that's their show.

You know, I mean, they're experts, and we trust them, you know, and we don't really tell them, hey, do it this way or do it that way. You know, they do it on their own. When you're an agent operating in Mexico, do you get a day off, is it? Or is it just always, you know, looking over your back on the go working a mission? Oh, there's times, you know, there's time. There's down times. But you always have to have your head on a swivel because, just because there's a little downtime. Crooks and they don't take downtime, man.

you know, if they want to get you, they're going to find you. But, but yeah, I mean, there was times where we had, you know, we had our parties, we had our barbecues and we did have some downtime and enjoyed, you know, each other's company, you know, so it's not all just, you know, operations and stuff like that. We did have fun. I loved my time in Monterey. When you're stationed over there, do you bring your family or do you just travel back and forth? Yes, we were, we brought our families. And when I was in Monterey, everybody's done there with their families. But there was a an incident that occurred in 2010. There was a shootout near the school where all of our kids go. And it got to the point where the RSO, the regional security officer of the consulate,

said, you know, we can't protect the kids anymore, man. So they turned Monterey in what's called an adult's only post. So every family that had kids had to leave. They had to evacuate and go back to their hometown. And very few of us stayed back. You know, I stayed back. I was fortunate because my family lived on the border, and it's just a two-hour drive. And for me, it was easy. But for other guys whose family lived in Florida or Kansas or wherever,

you know, it was difficult to be away from your family. You know, so we had a lot of agents leave, you know, not only from DEA, but FBI and other agencies. So, yeah, it was a really hard time. Did the cartel start targeting DEA agents while you were out there? No, no. I mean, there was a couple of times that I got followed out of the office. But I don't think they were really targeted.

I think it was more just the vehicle. They saw my vehicle as something that maybe they wanted or something, you know. But there's a lot of carjackings going on at the time. And I don't think I was targeted because everybody knew who I was. If something happens to an agent down there, there's going to be hell to pay. And we saw it when Agent Jaime Zapata was ambushed on the road down there in San Luis Potosi with my friend Victor Avila. Jaime Zapata was killed in that ambush and Victor was wounded. And not only DEA, but every single U.S. agency did everything possible to try to find the people responsible for that killing, the killing of that agent.

So they know that if something happens to one of us, there's going to be hell to pay. And they don't want that. They don't want that kind of heat on their organization. Do you think that holds true to today as well? I think so. But, you know, sometimes I think about it. And there's some of these guys coming up and they're young and they don't understand those codes from back then, from the old timers. Or they just don't respect them.

And I think things might be different, you know. So it's just a different generation of traffickers that have a, different mindset. You know, back when Juan Garcia-Abrevo days, it was all business. Their objective was to make money, not to show off, you know, all my cars and all this liquor and parties and girlfriends and all that. He just wanted to make money, you know, and that was his objective. Now these guys, they want to show off on their jewelry and they want to have songs made about them and all this stuff, you know. And I think it's just the generational mindset has changed among the traffickers. Do you think the cartels have become more or less violent over the years since when you started?

Well, they've become definitely more violent. When I started, you didn't see this level of violence, especially when I was in Monterey. I mean, it was off the charts, you know. But when I started in the 80s, you didn't see that because they were all business. They were all focused on business. And if somebody got out of line or stole something, well, yeah, they're going to deal with them. But they didn't mess with your family or your kids or they didn't mess with civilians that that were just businessmen or things like that.

And now it's gotten to that point where, you know, people open up a business down there in Mexico and a couple of weeks after opening, they're getting the door knocked on wanting a piece of the pie. You know, so it's really hard, man. And these guys have made it hard for people to run businesses over there. What do you think provoke that? Money. Money.

They just want to generate money. So anything that can generate money, they're going to exploit it. I mean, it got to the level. And I was in Monterey. There was a vendor on the streets selling those wrestling masks, the Lucha Libre masks. And every time we had people come in to visit from Washington or Dallas or Houston or whatever, we'd take them, hey, man, you want to buy your kid a mask? We take him to this guy and, you know, they'd buy a couple of masks and he was happy, you know. And then one day he says, man, boss is getting harder for me to work out here.

The Settas already came and they want, you know, 30% of them. what I make every day. He's man, you know, I got to feed my family, man. I can't make a living like that. And a couple of weeks later, we didn't see him anymore. So we don't know what happened. If they killed him or he just moved or what happened, but he was gone. So and that's a small example. And there's other businesses that they go on a higher scale. You know, the more money

you make, the more they want. So it's just really hard to conduct business over there. And that's the different between the 80s and now. How have you seen the safety for American civilians who travel over to Mexico change their safety over the course of your career? You know, it's safe. It's safe. And as long as you, you know, don't venture out into areas that are, you know, it's just like,

like anything, you know, if you go to a big city here in the United States, you don't want to be out at four in the morning, you know, at some place you're not supposed to be, you know. And Mexico City is a beautiful, beautiful city. and it's 22 million people, you know, so you're going to have crime. I mean, I was a, I was jacked, you know, me and a 3D agents. We're sitting at a cafe. I think some of the listeners will like this story. We're sitting there.

I got to Mexico City, and it was two friends of mine that I hadn't seen for a while. And, you know, we said, hey, man, let's go have some lunch or some coffee. So Mexico City, they have some of these sidewalk cafes, you know, and we're sitting there. We hadn't even ordered our drinks yet. This guy comes up to one of my friends and points the gun at him and actually tells him in English, give me your watch. And we're like, what? And he goes, give me your watch.

He's like, dude, give him your watch, man. So, yeah, man. So 3D agents get jacked, you know, that day in Mexico City. So crime happens, you know, you can be in a really nice area and it's still going to happen. So, I mean, it's just a big city. You just got to know where to go, you know, and just be aware of your surroundings at all time. And read those State Department travel alerts, you know, because they put them out there for a reason. How did your job change when you became a special agent in charge?

Well, I was in charge of the Monterey office. And what changed for me is that, you know, I'm responsible for these guys and their safety. And my job is to make sure they go home every night to their families. And that was my biggest concern. And there was times where, you know, some of the guys wanted to go on an operation and put themselves at risk, you know, and I had to make the tough call and say, no, man, I'm not going to let you do that because it's just going to, I don't want to be the one to knock on your door and tell your wife that you're not here no more, you know. So, no, let's try to do it another way. And there was several times I did that. I took that decision.

And, yeah, the biggest thing for me was making sure that my guys were safe at all times. times. Do you miss the action when you become a supervisor? You kind of do, but in Monterea, I had no choice. We had, we all had to be in there, you know, and back in the States, when I was a supervisor here in McAllen, Texas, I had 17 guys. And, you know, some guys, sometimes some guys would go on one deal and other guys were over here. And, you know, I couldn't be everywhere at once. So I didn't, sometimes I had to stay back in the office while they're out doing those things. In Mexico, we don't have that luxury. There was only four of us, five of us.

And if we had to do something, we were all out there, you know, so unless somebody was out of town or whatever. But, yeah, so that was a big difference. What do you think is the hardest thing to navigate as a supervisor? As a supervisor, sometimes prioritizing, you know, what operation we're going to do. You know, what are we going to do today? Let's prioritize, you know. that's hard to navigate because sometimes there's a couple of operations that, you know,

they're on the same level, but we've got to prioritize and see which one, we see which one is most important right now to our mission, you know, so that's kind of hard to navigate sometimes, you know, and to tell a guy, hey, you know, we're not going to do yours right now, but we're going to do this and we'll get to it eventually. So that's kind of hard to navigate, but it just has to be done, you know. What was your main focus or missions at that point in time when you were a supervisor? Our mission was to take down the leadership structure of the CETA's, and we did it methodically, and we knew we weren't going to get Miguel Trevino in one day or one month, so we started chopping away as a leadership.

But the way the CETA's are structured, they have a leader in every city in Monterey. They call it a plaza boss. So you have one in Monterey. there's another town called Guadalupe, another town called Escobedo. So they had bosses in all these towns. And so we're going to take all of these guys out. And that was our strategy.

And it got to the point, every time they assigned a Plaza Boss in Monterey, he was taken out. And it got to the point, you know, we had informants telling us, hey, nobody wants to be the Plaza Basse in Monterey anymore because they're afraid. You know, they're afraid of getting killed or getting caught, you know?

So that was, for us, that was music to our ears. It's that we're getting to them. So that was our strategy. And soon it got to the point where Villal Trevinio was like, who am I going to put in charge over there? And then it was going to be easier to get to him. And eventually that's what happened.

Now when the cartels are taken out, doesn't just a new one pop up? Yes. But what happens is the new one that pops up is not going to have the experience of this other guy. And you're going to get lesser and lesser experienced guys going in there and taking charge. And they make mistakes.

So they're easier to take out. So that was what affected them the most. And I would say the beginning of the end for the Settas cartel was when they launched those grenades at the U.S. consulate because after that we didn't stop. We didn't stop and neither did the army and neither did the Marines. So that was the beginning of the end for them. Who is the longest lasting cartel? Well, if I had to say, it would be the Gulf Cartel. But even then, right now they're kind of fractured.

and you have a Mishuakan cartel, but now they kind of got swallowed up by the Cartel de Halisco. So if I had to say it'd be the Gulf Cartel, but they're also, they're not the same as what they used to be. What about the most efficient? I would say Cartel de Halisco right now. The most efficient. I got asked a lot of questions when Menchel was killed down in Mexico. Oh, who's going to take over? That decision was made before he died.

He had already sat down with his leadership and said, said, well, if I die, because he was sick, he had some health issues. If I die, this guy is going to be in charge. And it's his stepson. And he's the one that's in charge now, Juan Carlos Valencia. And that decision was made way before. So these guys are efficient. They already planned.

They already know what's going to happen. They had their succession order ready. You know, so they just hop right along, man. And it's, okay, Mencho's gone. We already knew this was going to happen, so we're just going to keep forging on with our plan. And that's what happened. Why do you think some of these individuals that become cartel leaders even want to become a leader to begin with? Because it's just targets put on their back and the life expectancy can't even be that long.

Yeah. Well, you know, somebody's got to take charge. And the people below him, they want to, they need somebody to be that guy and to be the face of the cartel and say, I'm the boss. And, you know, this is the way it's going to go. you know, so in a way they kind of need it, you know, just just to say, hey, there's our leader and we have to do what he says, you know. But yeah, everyone that that is a leader has that target on their back. And sooner or later, you know, you're going to get caught or you're going to get killed. You know, that's just the way it works for everybody, you know, Pablo Escobar, El Mancho, Chapuzman, Mayo, all of them, you know. Do you think these cartels invest into businesses on the U.S. side?

Absolutely. Absolutely. there's money laundering. You have real estate. You have horses, race horses. And, you know, they love race horses. You know, Miguel Trevinio was big into horse racing. So they buy all these, you know, they buy ranches, big spreads of land for their race horses. So, yeah, they invest in businesses over here. And Mexico, too, hotels or owned by cartels where they laundered their money. So, yeah, absolutely. Now, do they do they do that solely for money laundering purposes or do they want to say retire? in the U.S. and move here.

Oh, I don't think they have the foresight to say, I'm going to retire in the U.S. It's laundering money and their love of horses, the race horses. You know, they really do love their horses. So, yeah, I don't think it's because they have this foresight of maybe retiring someday, you know. Do you see a day where there's no cartels? No, I don't see that. As long as there's a demand here in the United States and there's the supply available, I don't see it.

I don't think we'll ever see that day, at least in my lifetime. Now, do the drugs that get into the U.S. come only from cartels or their non-cartel organizations? There's some independence, but they have to pay a fee. If you want to get something across, you know, you're going to have to pay, you know, one of the gatekeepers, you know, the Gulf Cartel or one of those people. So, yeah, there's few of them. but they're going to have to pay. And if they don't pay, they're going to get wet out pretty much. What do you think Americans get wrong about cartels?

Well, you know, these guys are not. I think what Americans get wrong is that, you know, you see on TV all these flashy guys and stuff. These guys are pretty smart. You know, they're no dummies, man. So they're very creative. And I don't think that we really give them that much credit for that. But they're smart, they're creative.

To be able to handle an empire like that is not easy, man. And it's not for somebody that's low IQ, man. You have to know what you're doing. You have to know how to handle the money and the assets and everything. So I think we underestimate their intellect. Do you think that the cartel watches the American news and, you know, keeps up with, say, social media and what's going on in America? Absolutely. Absolutely, no doubt.

They watch the news, you know, and they're looking for trends. You know, they want to know what Trump is planning next, you know, absolutely, man. That way they can make contingency plans for their organization. So, yeah, they do watch the news, and they do watch, they do follow social media and see what kind of trends are coming up. So, yeah, absolutely. How does the political administration change the way the cartels operate? Well, in this case, you know, with Trump applying all this pressure to Mexico, it has changed. You know, I still have a lot of friends down there in Mexico, and some of the information coming back is that some of the traffickers are, the organizations like Cartel, Halisco, they want to lay low until Trump is out of office.

And if it takes two years, well, we'll wait two years and then we'll start operating again how we used to. But, yeah, it does affect them. And they do watch, and they are looking. And, you know, that's some of the information that has come back from some of my contacts down in Mexico. Do you think this is the most amount of pressure they've had on them since you've started? I think so. I've never seen this before. And I've been asked before, you know, why would Trump want to do something like this? And my response has always been, well, you know, because other administrations, even Trump's administration has tried other avenues, you know, diplomacy, sanctions. I mean, we've, we even had what was called the Medida agreement one time where we provide

them billions of dollars for training purposes for their police and their military and everything. And that didn't work. So nothing has worked. So I think it's time to try something different, you know, and I think that's what Trump is trying to do. So none of the things we did in the past have ever worked. So why don't we try this and see if this works? or if this causes some sort of reaction, you know.

And a lot of friends of mine in Mexico are saying, I'm saying, you know, there's never any consequences. You know, somebody can shoot somebody right now on the street, and the shooter's never going to get caught because nobody investigates. So a lot of people are frustrated by that, by the inaction and the lack of consequences for organized crime down there. So they want to see something. You know, I have some Mexican friends that have actually called me to,

dude, when is the U.S. going to do something over here? Because we're tired of all this, you know, so. Do you think the cartels actually deterred by, say, seeing some of their guys get blown up on a boat coming into America? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, without a doubt, because like I said, you know, when we were in Monterey and Trevino tried to put in another plaza boss in Monterey,

they didn't want to because they seen what happened to their predecessors. So, yeah, absolutely, man, without a doubt. I mean, I would. I certainly would. I said, man, you know, I don't want to be the next guy gets blown up in the water. You know, so, yeah, I absolutely think that. Does the U.S. make up most of the cartels drug sales,

or they have bigger, I guess, suppliers or customers in the world? You know, it's not only the U.S. I mean, I would say we're the number one consumer, but they've expanded their markets to Europe, you know, and, you know, even South Africa and West Africa. So it's not just us. You know, Europe is a big market for them. So, yeah, I mean, we're not the only.

I think we're number one, but there's others. And they're making, they have people over there established. And even Brazil now is getting into the equation and moving drugs out to Europe and other locations out there. Do you think the U.S. wants to have cartels in the picture? You know, you hear these rumors and conspiracy theories about the U.S. working directly with cartels? I wouldn't think so because there's just too much loss of life that has occurred because

of these guys. And personally, me, as an agent, I wouldn't want to be associated with those guys after they caused all this loss of life. Now, there's a group down there in Mexico called Madres Buscadores, mothers that are looking for their loved ones. And it's these moms that we've lost their young adult children to kidnapping or whatever and they're just, their children are just disappeared. They can't find them. They're buried somewhere or who knows, or burned or whatever. But they can't, all they want is to find their child's body so they can have some closure.

And the government has done zero to help them out, you know. So I'm talking about, it's a big group and they're looking, there's all these moms looking for their, their, they're. adult children who have just disappeared from the face of the earth. And the government is not doing anything. And I don't think any U.S. official wants to be, wants to be associated with that kind of a crime or inaction or lack of action, you know. So I don't, I wouldn't, personally, I would say I don't want to, for people to think that the U.S. government is complicit with the cartels because of, situations like that. Where do you think those types of rumors or theories come from?

There's always conspiracy theories. You know, when they killed Mencho's, oh, it probably was not really him, you know, it was a double and, you know, it's him. It's him. And the same thing happened when Deliverto Laskano, the leader of the Settas was killed. And him, actually, they had reason to come up with these conspiracy theories because they actually did steal his body from the funeral. home. But by that time, you know, the army had already identified him and took DNA samples and all that stuff. So, but, you know, but there's always, same thing with Ramon Arreano Felix. It's not him, you know, those conspiracy theories will always be out there. Do you think it's possible for a cartel leader to fake his own death to get off, you know, I guess that the wanted list from the U.S.?

I'm not going to say it's impossible, but it's going to be really hard. You know, I don't, I don't see how it could happen because it's just too high profile and there's always, you know, DNA and also, let me see, when Ramona Arrano Felix was killed in Maserlan, same thing, and people were like, oh, you know, it's not him. But one of our agents actually was able to get a sample, a blood sample and identify him to the DNA that it was him. So, you know, it's going to be really, really difficult for somebody to do that, but I'm not saying it's impossible. What's a mental toll that job takes on you as a years go on? Well, yeah, it does take a toll.

I mean, especially when my family was there. I was more worried when my family was there because, you know, my wife takes her son to the base to soccer practice. And we're in the middle of this big war, you know, the Settos in the Gulf Cartel and us and the Army. And she's going out to some remote soccer field, you know, and it's like, man, I was just terrified that something was going to happen, you know, so it takes a big toll. And once a family was safe in the United States, I felt a lot better. I said, if they want to do something against me, that's all right because I can defend myself. But it's one of the things that terrified me and also, you know, other agents that were in the office.

Do you weigh that when you take a position, say, in another country? Yes, but, you know, when I got to Monterey, this war had not. exploded yet. So I that came out of left field man. You know, I didn't anticipate that. And but once I was in the middle of it, it's like, well, you know, I can't back out. I can't leave, you know. So, yeah, it's something that that's always in the back of your mind. But, you know, I never thought that it was going to get to this level, you know, so yeah, it was pretty tough. Would the U.S. give you the option to come back during that or do you have to stay there? You can. You can. You can curtail your tour and come back if you want to. But I was too far in, man. I didn't want to do that. You know, I actually stayed in Monterey for six years, almost seven years. You know, so yeah, I didn't leave.

Now, how does it feel, you know, when you're getting closer to retirement, knowing that, you know, the drugs are never ending and, you know, it just never stops. The job's still not finished. I knew that way after I started my career I said you know know, we're never, Leo Silva's not going to stop the war on drugs, man, you know, it's always going to exist but but I am going to make the effort and do my job and take this guy out or do my best to to, you know, kind of impede this organization from bringing drugs over here and I know that I'm never going to stop it, but that's my job. And that's what I'm going to do. And I'm just going to focus on that.

And that's the way I was able to just keep going, you know, because I know I'm never going to stop it. I don't think anybody's going to stop it ever. What do you think was your most memorable day on the job? Most memorable day. Wow, that's a good question. There's several. I would have to say it's when Miguel Trevino was arrested finally, you know,

because we worked so hard for that. And when he was arrested, I had a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue, and I left it there. I didn't open it. So that bottle remained unopened for, I don't know, three years or so. And when we finally got him, you know, I was able to open that bottle and take a drink of that Johnny Walker Blue, man. Salute, you know.

What do you think was your worst day on the job? My worst day on the job, without a doubt, is when I was in Monterey, We had two bodyguards assigned to the U.S. consulate, and they were assigned to the consul general, who was the principal officer at the consulate. And it was a Friday. The following Saturday, in Monterrey, there's two professional soccer teams. And twice a year they play against each other.

So the next Saturday, they were going to play against each other, and everybody was excited about the, you know, both teams were doing well. They were undefeated, and it's, oh, man, it's going to be a great game. And that morning I arrived to work that Friday morning and one of the guys, Abrego, he starts messing with me, ah, boss, you know, my Tigres are going to beat your rayos and this and that. And I said, oh, man, come on. You know, so we're just joking around about the game and everything.

And I go upstairs and that afternoon by 5.30, 6 o'clock, he's dead. As he left the consulate with one of his companions, his coworkers, because they were neighbors. They left together on a motorcycle. It's common in Mexico. Two guys get on a motorcycle is not uncommon. And as they left the consulate, not even five minutes after they left, they were assassinated on the street, both of them. And that has got to be the hardest, the darkest time of my career.

In Mexico, when you die, there's no waiting next week for all the family members to come. The funeral is going to be tomorrow. So the next day, I had to attend two funerals, man, And it was just really the toughest time I've ever gone through. How do you continue working when something like that happens? Well, because of them, you know, because I can't let that go and punish. You know, so there was a lot of drive to find the people responsible, you know. And that year, and I talk about it in my first book, Rain of Terror.

That year was 2011, and we had several incidents that year that just, I mean, You know, it was the worst year of my life. The Jaime Zapata incident where Jaime Zapata gets killed in San Luis Potosi, they got ambushed. Then our bodyguards get killed. And then two months, not even two months, a month after our bodyguards get killed, Lesothas burn up a casino down there, Casino Royale. And 63 innocent people died in that fire. And, you know, I had people calling me and saying, Leo, Leo, my aunt is in that building, man.

can what's going on can you tell me and it was just chaos you know and and that year was the toughest year of my life man you know and and uh it's just something i can never get out of my mind you know just so much loss those were americans that passed away in there no it was mexican citizens but but still i mean there were family members of friends of mine that passed away in there innocent people people that had nothing to do with drug trafficking or anything like that and the reason they the set this cause the fire is because the owners of the casino didn't want to pay their their their their fee and the set us went and made an example of them and they killed a lot of innocent people you know so yeah those those moments stand out in my career is is the darkest ever of my career do you think that extortion will ever end

in mexico i don't think so i i don't i don't see how that's just so prevalent everywhere throughout the country now and everybody's doing it you know people pretend to be a cartel member and try to extort somebody. So I just don't see how they could control it, you know. What can Mexico do differently, the government? They can start by having consequences for crimes, you know. You get a guy that steals, I don't know, a Coke or something at a Circle K, and they send him to jail, but somebody that goes and tortures and kills somebody,

they can never catch him somehow, you know, so it's just the balance of justice is not there. There needs to be more consequences for the really bad criminals that are doing all these things, kidnapping people and extorting people. And people of Mexico don't see that and they're tired. So I think that's where they need to start. Do you think new presidents will change that in Mexico or new officials, or do they not have much say because of the cartels? If the next administration comes in and it's part of the same party that's the ruling party right now,

I don't see much change happening, you know, because this ruling party is one of the reasons there's inaction. They don't want to take action for some reason. And the prior president, Amlo, his philosophy was hugs, not bullets. I mean, that doesn't work with cartels or organized crime, you know. Sure, they're going to hug you, but many of you turn around. they're going to shoot you in the back. So we need to have some more consequences. Somebody that's going to be in there that's strong enough to enact consequences for

organized crime. What year did you end up retiring? 2015, January of 2015. And I've been asked often if I miss the action. Well, I miss the action sometimes, but do I want to go back now? I'm good. I'm good. I'm good writing books, man.

You know, it's a lot safer. How many years did you have on the job by the time you're retired? 28 years. 28 years, man. I started when I was 22 and I retired when I was 50. Did you know you want to retire? At the time, by the time I retired, I had had. I don't think I could have taken anymore.

I just, I had reached my limit and I knew it was time to go. Could you have stayed longer? I could have stayed until I was 57. But I don't think I could have taken it anymore. mentally or, you know, I just, I was done. I was burned out. What was it? How do you recover from that burnout when you retire after a career like that?

When I first got home, it was hard to decompressed because I was still so used to that lifestyle, you know. But slowly over time, it takes time, you know, and you just got to focus on other things, things that you like to do. I played a lot of golf, so I ended up playing a lot of golf. and spending time with my granddaughter and my kids. I didn't have time before that because I was working all the time. So that kind of helped me decompress.

But it takes time. It's not something that's going to happen right away. Is it weird to go from one day your phone's ringing about, you know, D.E.A. business and the next day it's silent or you don't even have that government phone anymore? Yeah, absolutely. But in a way, it's kind of peaceful, man. I said, like nobody's going to call me at three or four in the morning for some emergency, you know, so yeah, it was hard.

I'll tell you a little funny story. One of the times that I realized, hey, you know, the gig's up, you're not wearing the cape anymore. I'm at home. I had just been retired maybe a couple of months, and my granddaughter was maybe three years old at the time, and she had a bunch of toys spilled all over the floor. And I said, hey, baby, you can pick up your toys, you know, somebody's going to trip over that.

And she looks me right in the eye, and she says, no, I don't pick up toys. I knew right then there, man. You know, I didn't have any more power anymore, man. So, but that's a funny story. That's when I realized, like, you know, it's over, man. You're not the boss anymore. What about readjusting to life in America versus Mexico when you come back after a long stint? You know, I was ready, man.

I've been in Mexico a long time. And when I came back, you know, I enjoyed it. I was happy to go out and, you know, Listen to some real American music, you know, rock music and stuff like that. You know, I love all types of music, and especially Mexican music, you know, so, but just to come back, you know, and listen to that and go to an American restaurant, you know, even if something like chilies, you know, whatever, you know, it was good. It felt good to be home. I wonder if it's relatable to, you know, guys coming out of prison for the first time in a few years or something if it's in that moment. don't know, but in my case, it was just being in that country, you know, and then coming back home

and enjoying all these things. I'll give you an example. Right before I retired, I had gone to a conference, and I don't know, I had to go to a conference from Monterey to Dallas or somewhere, and I'm in the airport in Dallas, went through customs, you know, and coming out into the terminal, and I hear the song, you know, Michael Jackson's song, you know, a pretty young thing. And there's some guys out there dancing and they're like, man, it's good to be home and listen to this, you know. So, I mean, that's an example, you know, you don't get that over there. So when I come home and I see that, and I'm like, damn, man, it's good to be home, you know. I don't know if that's relatable to a guy getting out of prison because I was in a different country.

At least in prison, you're here in the United States and you can still, you know, have access to this American music and TV shows and stuff like that. But in Mexico, no, you know. Do you ever think about what your life would look like if you went with your initial career thoughts? I often do, but like I say, I can't wallow on that. I have zero regrets. I mean, I'm glad I made the choice that I did. So now that I'm retired, you know, I wanted to be an English teacher and I loved writing.

And now I get to do that. You know, I'm pretty much living the dream and writing my books. I got a third one in the works. What's that one going to be about? I'm not going to give it up right now, but it's going to be very interesting. And it's also based on a true story. And then it's all, you know, Stephen King, one of my favorite writers says, write what you know.

What do I know? I know the Marco world. And now that I have a little of experience writing these books, I know how to shape it to, or just one small incident, I can turn it into a whole novel. So that's what I'm working on in this third book. But that's still coming, you know. Right now I'm happy. This one just was released like three weeks ago.

With someone with your career history, do you get frustrated watching, say, like, the cartel-based movies or shows if you even watch them at all? I do, but I don't watch shows that are like exaggerated, you know, not really real. The best show I've ever seen that comes very close to what we really did is Narcos. Steve Murphy. Absolutely. Steve Murphy, Chris Feissel. and those guys. That show comes very close to what we did in not only in Colombia but Mexico. What's one life lesson you think your career taught you?

It's never give up. Today might be a bad day, but hey, there's always tomorrow and you just got to keep moving forward. And that's that's one life lesson that has stayed with me. I mean, from the start of my career to now. Well, Leo, I appreciate you coming on the show today. Well, it was my honor, man, and I'm glad we had this discussion. Yeah, really insightful stuff, and we'll have the link to your books in the description in this episode. Awesome.

I hope your viewers enjoy these stories because most of them, they're all true. There's some fiction mixed in there, but they're all true, and a lot of it has to do with my early days as an undercover agent, so. I'm sure they're going to love it. Awesome. Thank you for having me on. Yeah, thank you.