Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a Guard at Rikers Island | Mike Marcus

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

Mike Marcus grew up in the Bronx and became a Rikers Island corrections officer at just 21 years old. For five years, he worked inside one of America’s most notorious jails—witnessing violence, chaos, and the harsh realities of life behind bars. In this interview, Mike reveals the untold stories from his time on the job, the biggest misconceptions about corrections officers, and why he ultimately decided to leave the career behind. #RikersIsland #PrisonStories #CorrectionsOfficer #PrisonLife #TrueCrimePodcast #BronxStories #LockedInPodcast #behindbars Connect with Mike Marcus: https://www.instagram.com/growthwithmike?igsh=MTJuOGN4cGJha3o3Zg== Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Use code LOCKEDIN for 20% OFF Wooooo Energy Buy Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00 Intro: Facing Rikers at 21 02:00 Growing Up in the Bronx 06:00 Staying True and Avoiding Trouble 10:00 Early Influences and Family Support 14:00 Dreams, Football, and Changing Course 19:00 Mentorship and Shifting Mindsets 24:00 Image, Goals, and Taking the Job 29:00 Starting at Rikers: First Impressions 36:00 Respect, Challenges, and High-Security Units 44:00 Inside Realities: Officer Advice and Changing People 51:00 Rewards, Perks, and Dangers of the Job 01:01:00 Investigations and the Prison Rape Elimination Act 01:08:00 What Needs to Change at Rikers 01:13:00 Choosing to Leave and Life After Corrections 01:16:00 Final Thoughts and Closing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What's something that the public doesn't know about Rikers Island that you think they should know about? Mike Marcus grew up in the Bronx and at just 21 years old became a corrections officer on Rikers Island, one of the most dangerous jails in America. For five years, he worked inside the chaos, dealing with inmates, violence, and the daily pressure that few on the outside ever see. Today, Mike shares the raw truth about what it's really like to be a guard on Rikers, the biggest misconceptions about corrections, and why he ultimately walked away from the job.

Mike, welcome to Locked In, man. Thanks so much for coming today. I appreciate you, man. Appreciate you for having me for sure, man. Yeah, of course. You came from the city, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, coming from Westchester County.

Oh, that's where you live now? Yeah, that's where I live now. But I'm from the Bronx, though, originally. Okay. Did you live in Westchester when you were working at Rikers? No, no, no. I was living in the Bronx at that time. I was going to say that's a little bit of a commute.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, it would have been, yeah, coming from Westchester, it would probably be like an hour away. Why do you pick Westchester? Just to change the environment mostly, because, you know, coming from the Bronx, I'm from the Bronx. So for me, environment is big.

I actually learned that, you know, just being, we're working at work is in general. Like, environment plays a big part on, you know, as we always say, like, why people are successful or become successful. So I just realized like, all right, why not live in a better area, right? I'm from the Bronx and everything. And I could stay there.

But why not get around different types of people and, you know, just make me, I would just say, think clear thoughts. And it's put me in a different space. Tell us about what it was like to grow up in the Bronx, your childhood. My childhood. So it was rough. I mean, everything that people basically, I guess, hear about on TV or see. I mean, it pretty much was my childhood. So I grew up on Cedric Avenue that's in the Bronx, and the home of hip hop.

They changed it to Hip Hop Boulevard now, but it's the high bridge area. So pretty much for me, you know, it's tough. I mean, you're talking about going to school down the block. You know, I had 229. That was the school I went to. And I think the toughest part, realistically, is I think remaining who you are. Because a lot of people, I haven't seen them lose themselves, even at a younger age, trying to follow, you know, you want, everybody want to be cool.

You know what I'm saying? And I think, you know, when you want to be cool, sometimes you end up not cool, if that makes sense. You know what I'm saying? And then now people, you know, it's now like, oh, he's a follower. People know his followers and stuff. So for me, I think that was like the toughest challenge, but it wasn't as tough for me because I just think being myself is the best thing I could ever decide to do. Do you think you fell into that or were you able to avoid that pattern?

So I think I avoided it. Did I fall into it? In some shape or form, yeah. Certain things. I probably got to give you an example. So let's just say at the time frame maybe fashion, right? Naturally, you're looking at everybody wearing, let's say, bigies, pals and yada yada, right? The fashion of the time frame.

You know, you fall in, you want to wear that stuff, of course, you know, because you want to be considered in style or you wanting to hear compliments, things like that. So, yeah, in some shape of form I did, I just never went over the top. So I never did something I couldn't do. Let me just say that. Like, if I could do it, I'd do it. But if I'd never like to half-ass things, you know what I mean? I curse on that, right?

Yeah. Yeah, I don't curse too often, but I just want to know. But, yeah, I don't like the half-ass things. So my thing is, if I can't do something, I'm not going to do it. What do you know what? What do you do for work? So my mom, she's a manager at UPS. She's been there for forever.

And my dad, he's a barber. So he's been doing that my whole life too, pretty much. What were your friends like in school? Were they kind of the same person as you? Or did you have a very diverse group of friends? Yeah, well, it's cool because my friends, my close friends still to his day, it was my friends back then. I lucked up, you know, to have 10 plus years of friendship.

And, yeah, they're very similar to me, you know, where, like I said, they lean in a bit on certain things. But most things, they would be like, nah, that ain't for me. And that's okay. You know what I'm saying? People still respect them. People still love them. And it pretty much worked out, just us being ourselves. And then I guess that's how we found each other and then we stuck with each other because we realized that's what we had in common. Did any of them go down a bad path or everyone kind of stayed on the straight and arrow? No, nobody went down a bad path. It's so crazy because

none of us, I think only, well, technically, even myself, I had got in trouble. I had appointed Tom when I was like, I think I was 18. Yeah, I was 18 over a fight. I was with one of my close friends. All we did was go for a jog and long story short, it went left. But it wasn't due to us. It was just the circumstance and the guy wouldn't want to walk away. So we ended up fighting and then we got arrested that day.

That was the worst day of my life, by the way. I said, you know what? I'm never going to fight again. It's not worth it. You know what I mean? I end up getting locked up for a weekend, pretty much. And it was terrible. You know what I'm saying?

But that was the first and last time I ever been arrested, anything like that. And even for him, that was his first or last time. So like I said, most of us, we, they've been pretty much straightforward. They was good. Did they drop that charge from your record? Yeah, yeah, over time, yeah, they did. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't have been able to become a correctional officer. No, I had it on my record.

Oh, really? At the time, yeah, I did. It was a, what was it, a misdemeanor? A misdemeanor. As long as you don't got, like, a felony or anything, you're okay. And then at that time, it was so. far back. So when I got into corrections, I was 21. Yeah, I was 21. So that happened when I was like 18. So it was, I guess it was just a little gap. So pretty much, and it was a misdemeanor,

so they allowed it. You know, it's up to them. They could determine to just let you go. I don't think I would have probably maybe made into PD because I think PD is tougher to make it in, from what I hear. I never applaud, but how would you ever describe your character in high school? Man, that's a great question. How would I describe my character? To sum it up, I would just say, I'm a team player, you know, very optimistic. Always wanted to help people. I think always just in a good move from what I always said. I always felt that way too.

But I think just always being known for being happy. And I just always wanted to be different, man, different than the crowd. What do you think was your best trait that would help you later on on the job at Rikers Island? The best trait that helped me on the job? up, I think just me, me being comfortable with me being me. I think that was the best thing because when you're around so in that environment, you're around a bunch of cool kids. This is the way I broke down, like jail.

So it's like high school. It's like high school again. It's probably even worse, technically. But I grew up in the Bronx. So it's like when you walk into a housing area, it's like walking into the projects. Or walking into a neighborhood. you're not from, right? And everybody looking at you,

they're trying to fill you out, feel your energy, yada yada. Same thing that happened in the streets. So at that point, they sizing you up, whatever the case is. So the whole thing is, like, they're waiting for you

to be somebody else because most people are trying to be somebody else or trying to fit in with them. But we're not here to fit in with them. We're here to be ourselves and do the job. So for me, it was just easy

because, like I said, I think of just my environment, my own, you know, personal experience, through high school, things like that. It wasn't hard to be myself because I dealt with this my whole life. It just was, I mean, now jail, the jail environment.

So I just think personally, yeah, I just think being myself was the best thing. What did you know about jail or even Rikers Island as a kid growing up in the Bronx? You know, it's so crazy. I really, I always, first of all, I didn't know it as Rikers' Isla. I know it as the Rock.

That's what they called it? Yeah. I've never heard of that. Yeah, they called it the Rock. So I never knew what Rikers Island was, really, until like and I basically heard of it of course I just didn't associate it when I was that young as that's right because it was called the rock

So what were some of the rumors you would hear Or the stories you would hear? Just getting robbed, people always getting robbed I think that was always a story like yo bro I'm telling you when you go there Just make sure you know you're not wearing this This like it was like everybody didn't want to get robbed Especially at that time because I think when I was in high school That probably was the worst time I think in the Bronx history of robberies

At least I feel that way. And I just think, while I say that is because at that time frame, that's when Biggies and Pels and BB belts and stuff was in style. But it just seemed like everybody was getting robbed. They phones. That was just the time frame. It was just, everybody getting robbed. And it's not necessarily like no gunpoint.

Sometimes it just was like they was threatening to jump you or something. And you would just, you know, take your stuff or whatever. You know what I'm saying? People getting set up. So it was like the same stories I was hearing that I either saw in the streets or heard about the streets was happening on Rocka's Island. So I really think, more or less, that was the same stories I was hearing. What do you think was the best thing your parents did for you to keep you away from the street

life? The best thing? I would just say my mom, I think my mom would just, you know, having some type of time frame for me to be home, right? But she allowed me to be me. And I think that always allowed, that always made me want to be better or, you know, not disappoint her because she allowed it like she allowed me to be me she's like hey just make sure you home at this time so it's like of course i just try to rush because i never wanted to disappoint her

that was my thing for me on a personal note now in your opinion say we take two individuals two guests of the show that have that grew up in the bronx why does one go into corrections and one goes to prison if you guys grew up on the same street that's a great question i just believe people are different but people make how we have choices that we need to make and that's at all age especially once we leave our mom you know as you get a bit older you know you're not you're around your friends more than you're around your mom and your dad right so your friends have a major major influence on you so really your decision making is what would dictate whether or not you're going to decide to go to jail or end up going to jail or you're going to make the decision to become a correction officer make the right

decision. So I think Illinois is really just the person, you know, and the choice that they made. Timeframes, right? We already know, I always used to hear my mom, you say, hey, you got to know, you know, when it, when the be somewhere, when not the be somewhere, right? Your friends, per example, I used to go outside, I'm playing basketball, playing football, my friends. This is a whole collective group of people. So meaning it's people that just like me, they just hear to play ball, but then you got the gangsters playing ball with us, too. So what I'm saying is at that point, once it's over, what the gangsters do, they still outside, they still doing whatever. They want to go somewhere else.

They want to go to some other neighborhood. They want to do whatever they want to do. And at that point, I have a curfew, let's just say, most of us did. Some people went home. Some people didn't. But it was all choice, you know, so I just think making the right choice. When did it pop up in your mind for the first time to become a correctional officer? So when I first, so it never just randomly came to my mom, by the way.

I was actually got introduced to it. So at the time frame, my dad was dating a woman, and she was a captain on Rodriguez Island at the time. And she was the one that was like, hey, Mike, I was selling real estate. And she was just like, hey, why don't you just do both? You know, you're young. You know, people's going to like you. You know, it's going to work for you. Like, trust me, I've seen all walks of life do this job.

So I know you could do it. You cool. Like, you know what I mean? And you're young. You know, you could just secure both, right? Secure a pension and you can still sell real estate. And I just just like, you know what? I go take the test.

She actually paid for me to take the test. I took the test. And I told my mom, I said, Ma, I took the test, whatever the case is to go become a correctional. She was like, oh, that's good. And she ain't thinking none of it needs. She was like, oh, you know,

to get a city job to take a long time. So I was like, oh, yeah. Well, I just wanted to let you know. I took the test. I passed it, too. You know, I only got like a 73 or something. And they called me in four months, though. So I think that's what blew my mind.

I was like, damn, wait, hold on. I'm really about to become a correctional officer. And at that point, I mean, it was no turning back. I just said, you know what? I'm a utilized the job to help me get to where I really want to be in my life. How much of the test cost and what kind of questions are on there? Ah, damn. I think the test probably was like, I think it was like maybe $50 or something like that.

$50 to $75, I think, I believe. It was something like that. And the questions that's on it, it's kind of general. Well, one question I do remember, they show you a day room. And I ain't even know what a day room was, but they show you it. And they put like a clock, they put the officer, they put an, you know, an inmate there, what else. And it's a day room. So it's a whole bunch of things going on.

It's other incarcerated individuals in the room and everything. And then they may say, you're stare at it for about five minutes, I think. It was like five, ten minutes. You're stare at it. And then the screen will go off. And they ask you numerous questions about what was going on in the room. I don't even remember that because that was just a crazy thing for me. I'm like, I'm standing at this picture.

I don't know what I'm looking for. I don't know what they're going to ask me. I'm trying to anticipate. I could never do it. And long-stay, should. Yeah, it goes on to the questions after that. So now that you've actually gotten the job and went through all that, do you understand now what that question was for?

Oh, yeah, for sure. It's just trying to see if you're paying attention. Because as an officer, technically as an officer and an incarcerated individual, you need to be paying attention because there's a lot that could be going on, that could be putting your life in danger or somebody else. So after high school, did you go to college or you went right into real estate? No, I went to college. I went to Nassau Community College, Long Island.

And you graduated? Yeah, I graduated from there. Okay, and then got into real estate. Yeah, got into real estate. So I had big football dreams, to be honest. I wanted to go to the NFL. That's the only thing I could have thought about. That kept me out a lot of trouble, too, was playing football for me.

Because all in all, I loved the sport so much, man. All I did was play it. I watched it and played Madden all the time. So pretty much that's just what I lived by, you know, and I just told my mom one day, I said, Ma, I'm by your house. You're already know the law. I'm going to buy your house someday. I'm going to take care of you.

And at that time, to be honest, this was in 2014. I realized that, oh, it's over. Like, my time frame is coming to an end. I was telling I didn't get another scholarship because National Community College is a Jucco school. It was a top school, though. And usually, most of those kids will transfer to go to D1 school or D2. to compete at a higher level and get noticed that it happened for me.

So at that point, you know, I had to make a decision not only for me, but I was making a decision also for my mom at the time. Because, you know, she's like, oh, baby, don't worry. I could just pay for you to go to this next school I wanted to go to. But in reality, to be real, I never wanted my mom to pay for me to go to school.

That was never the idea. Really, I was supposed to get a scholarship that I wanted to be free due to my talent. Now is everybody that talented or, you know, do we have the grades to get scholarships? Most likely you're not coming from where we come from. We probably have the talent, but we just, maybe the grades don't match or vice versa. So, you know, at that point, I just decided it was tough for me. It was tough for me because at that point, I just was like, I don't think I'm going to move on.

You know what I'm saying? And to say that, it's like going back on my word on what I told my mom. So at that point, I just had a decision to make. I was real emotional about it, to be honest, because it was just all I dreamed about. I didn't know nothing else to really do. And like I told you before, I don't want to live an average light. I don't want to be average. I never wanted to be that.

I always want, I saw myself different. I feel like whatever I put my mind to, I can do, you know, at an all-time level. You know what I'm saying? So ended up randomly coming across a YouTube video. You know this guy, Todd Lopez? You ever heard him before? Yeah, I've heard of that. All right, Todd Lopez, man.

Change my life. I'm going to just tell them right now. I got to meet him. someday. But I did his mentorship program. It's called our 67 steps. So basically he said it takes 67 days to change a new habit and get rid of an old one. That's the program. So what he did, it's like a mentorship where he focuses on the four levels, the four pillars of life, which is health, wealth, love, and happiness. And he said that's the four pillars that everybody cares about. And he's like, listen, once you take this course, what's going to happen is your mom says

it's going to change, therefore you're going to change. You know, at the time, this video was about, this was, by the way, I was not watching nothing with Todd Lopez in it. You know, this was an ad, but the ad was like probably like an hour long. I don't even know what made me sit there and watch that. Normally you skip it. But, you know, this 2014, so YouTube is different at that time frame, right? So anyway, I literally just sat there and I watched it. I felt so, I don't know, I just felt so alive like I had another chance.

So I go in the room, I said, Ma, can I get $150? She's like, boy, if you don't get on my face? I'm like, nah, come on, mom, please. This ain't for, like, nothing. I was trying to explain this ain't for, like, no nonsense. This is something that's going to hopefully help change my life. That's the goal. And I said, it's a mentorship program, you know, and I was trying to show it like,

hey, just this program. I don't want it to, like, physical out, you know, anything like that. She was like, all right, go get my pocketbook. So I got a pocketbook. And I paid for it right then and there. Super excited. I don't got nothing else to do anyway. You know what I'm saying?

So I'm just literally sitting there started the course. And literally, first thing he said, he said, look, congratulations, that you in this course. You are literally on your way to change your life. And listen, when I tell you, this right here is possible for anybody. I don't care what your life looks like right now. You could change your life. So start the course. And basically one of the first things he mentioned, he said, look, everybody that's in your life, they may not stay in your life.

But it's not due to you not wanting them to stay there. Your mindset is going to change over time. You're going to listen to these courses. Basically, so it's audio. It was something that had video and some of them was just audio. But you say you got to listen to this every single day, the same way you listen to music. And I'm telling you, I did this for 67 days straight.

I'm on the train. I'm telling you, anywhere I went, I was just on the train. And his whole thing is don't skip neither. So you only do one a day. So I can settle in. And these are like an hour long. But I'm telling you, literally, I'm going to say the first month, literally me and my girlfriend broke.

I broke up with her at the time frame. You know, I started, I ran into my mentor. Jeff Williams, aka J. Lorenzo, and he's always been in my life. He's the reason why I end up getting to real estate. My dad was living with him at the time. I went up there like a normal Sunday watching the football game, see my dad, see him, and I just asked him the right question, which was, yo, Jeff, what is it that you do? He was like, oh, I sell real estate and I work for Colgate. I work for Colgate. So I'm like, I heard Colgate, of course, it's two pays. So I'm like, you know, I'm like, what's real estate? He was like, oh, you're standing in it. Now, I'm

Like, I was totally lost. You know, I'm young. I'm 18 at the time. And I'm just like, he's like, yeah, I'm going to come right back. He's in a wheelchair. So he rolls to the back, to his room. He comes back out. He showed me a check for $25,000.

Now, you know what, come on. My age, I'm like, whoa, hold on. It's a lot of money, yeah. It's a lot of money. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, he's like, yeah, man. Look, if I could do this, you could do this. You young and people's going to like you.

Naturally, as any kid would do, I got excited. I say, Jeff, is it possible for me to just go to my? my, you know, go to my block real quick. I'm going to tell my friends. Can you tell them the same thing you told me? You know what I'm saying? Because now, like I told you, I'm in the helping. I'm like, if I know something, why not put my man's in them on? I went all the way back. He was like, yeah, literally, I ran home, actually. I don't live close. He lived in Harlem. I live in the Bronx. Literally jogged home. And I went to go get my friends. I told him, I said, yo, bro, listen, Jeff, y'all got to meet Jeff. Jeff is on some money stuff. We're going to change our life,

all this good stuff. So five of us went back to his house that same night. And he told him the same thing. me but you know he was like yeah so we was like oh how much is the course he's like um i think at the time for it was 150 it's a lot of 150s going on but it was 150 it was on group on so we like okay but we didn't have the money so i'm like jeff was like look man i would pay for you guys but you guys aren't going to appreciate it so i'm not going to do that they're going to have to come with the money so i'm looking at jeff like yo jeff why would you tell him that we don't got no money you know what i mean but anyway you know long story short i'm just like well, we're going to have to find it, you know, figure out how to get the money.

I was the only when I came with the money at that time frame. I was selling DVDs and I was doing that throughout college. So I came with the money that weekend. I gave Jeff, you know, I told Jeff, I got it. You know, he showed me how to do it on Groupon and I purchased it. I was the only one I ended up coming out on my license, you know, during that time. I got closer with Jeff even during that time. He started mentoring me, you know, coming and pick me up.

And literally, remember, I'm still doing the Todd Lopez courses. well. So literally as it's fizzling out, it's like I was just transforming right in front of everybody's eyes realistically. Like I'm talking about the way I was dressing change. So I started, you know, wearing slags or wearing polos, you know, just changing my apparel because they said, you know, you got to dress a certain way, you know, even though you're not there yet, but start dressing like how you want to be treated or how you see yourself, right? So I just started to just change. I started to wear suits. My friends, I remember they invited. We used to go to Webhole all the time, Webster. Websterall? Yeah, I'm saying, webhole.

So at that time frame, I used to go crazy. So my friend's like, yo, we out. I wasn't even going out at the time from because I was studying for the test, right? They like, yo, bro, we out. We out to web tonight. I'm like, all, cool. So I started to put on what I would normally put on, jeans and stuff. But I started thinking, I'm like, nah, I'm going to do it different this time.

So I end up throwing on a suit. Now, they, we always stood on like a four-way, five-way. So while we're getting dressed, we're like, yo, what you're wearing? What you're wearing? And so I wasn't saying nothing at the time. So they're like, yo, Mike, you're a funny nigga. What you wearing, bro? What you wearing?

I'm like, chill, bro. Chill. I got this new thing on like for the night. So they're laughing or whatever. They're like, all, we're going to see whatever. So they all met me downstairs. I was the last one to come downstairs. And I had the suit on.

And they're like, nah, my boy lost his mind right now. So I'm like, nah, bro, it's all good. I said, my whole idea, I'm going like this because at the day, They say black people all look alike anyway, right? So why not stand out, right? I want people to want to meet me. I'm tired of just going and trying to meet people, right? And it's like maybe let's say girls at the time trying to meet girls, whatever cases.

They treat you like anybody else. And I'm not just anybody else. That's how I personally feel. So I say, you know what? Let me start dressing the part. Like, you know what I mean? How it's supposed to be dressed. So that's what I started doing.

And just little changes like that and my friends even seeing things like that. And I think them even accepted me at that time. frame. You know what I'm saying? And me keeping it up, right? Not being afraid to do that. It, man, it did a lot for me at that time. I'm telling you, man. How many discounts does USAA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount. Safe driver discount. New vehicle discount. Storage discount. How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usaa.com slash auto discounts. Restrictions apply.

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work together. Like it just, I couldn't believe what was happening. You know what I'm saying? Just a small story, right? I literally left. So I remember this is one day. This is, I finished this six, seven step program. Me and Jeff now, Jeff is picking me up here and there coming in front of my house. He got the drop top BMW. So I'm looking like that guy. A lot of people outside, you know, and I don't know, I said, Jeff. He, Jeff was like, oh, can you get me a water real quick? So I went to go get him a water, the deleteries right there. I see my boy to admit. So he always has his shirt off.

We call him on, at the time he was calling him like, no shirt tea, right? So anyway, he like, yo, Mike, he calling me. Yo, Mike. He like, yo, what up? So anyway, I'm walking to the store anyway. But when I walk to the store, normally, you know, I'm like this with it, like trying to dab him up. And he gave me a handshake.

That right there changed everything for me. I didn't even understand. understand what was happening at that time, but it makes so much sense today. Because literally, how he's seeing me is how I wanted to be seen. He started, he had a different level of respect for me because based upon what he's seen me doing. You get what I'm saying? We all from the same place. We're in the same place. I was still living there at the same time. But something changed in his psychological, the way he started to see me. And that right then and there, I knew exactly. I'm like, oh, I'm on the right track.

So did you feel defeated or, like, you weren't chasing your dreams or passion when you decide to join Corrections? No, no. Like, no, corrections was a part of the plan. It became a part of the plan because instantly I said, oh, if I can go here and I can still, exactly what she told me, she said, hey, you can do both. I immediately just, like, that makes sense. I didn't think it was going to happen as fast.

So when I got into corrections, I never took pitches or anything. You know how people graduating stuff? I never posted that stuff online. ever. Why? Because I saw real estate. That's what I want people to know me for. But so it wasn't a part of your image? Never. Never. Is image important to you? A hundred percent. It's everything. Did you think like corrections below what you wanted to be in life? No, no, no. It's just that ultimately I was there to, so that's a job, right? It's not, it's not something that I was a correctional officer, but it was something that didn't define me.

It was a job. It was something that I'm like, all right, cool. It's a lot of people in here. They have money or they're making money or they're going to eventually be making money. They need my guidance in real estate. How do I get them to also respect me in that way? It also has great perks.

I mean, insurance, the pay is pretty good. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, no, they're getting paid. It's a government job. No, listen, man, they're getting paid for sure. But that's what I'm saying. So my thing is this, the guidance. Everybody in there is people in there getting paid.

There's a lot of people getting paid. But do they have the right guidance on what to do with the money or have the education behind certain things that really matter? Real estate matters forever. I don't care who you are. You know, when you find out about it, it always mattered. You know what I'm saying? So my thing is I'm going here.

I said, look, I know people in here, right? They got to know me. I'm in here just like them. 16 hours a day, 17, whatever. We're partners. And my whole thing is we can have better. conversations than just talking about the job. Because naturally when you're sitting there, right, when it's downtime, as you know, it's downtime, what are you talking about? What, nonsense?

Parties, right? Everybody want to party. Everybody want to know the next drink. When the next time we're going out to drink? You know what I'm saying? It's the same stories. Like, oh, what car I'm about to get? It's nonsense. What chain I'm going to get it? Watch? It's nonsense. You know what I'm saying? But look, let's have a real conversation. You bought a property yet? You purchased something yet? Oh, I didn't even know. I just, yeah, how does that work? Now I'm here to answer the questions. A lot of us from our community in general is nervous to pick up the phone and reach out to people and say they need help or they need guidance. And that's what gets a lot of people into trouble. All the time. I mean, we see that in most fraud cases too. Yeah. Normally people start off

with good intentions and something happens that triggers it and they don't ask for help and it. It goes down the wrong path. Yeah, exactly. So I just thought to go in there and be like a trusted advisor. You know what I'm saying? I wanted people to to know that, hey, look, you. You know, got somebody that you can trust i'm right here i'm showing up tomorrow i'd be right here you know i mean we'd be fighting this battle together but we can have better conversations about growing and and being being like used the job as a platform but this doesn't it shouldn't define you it shouldn't be all you you're concerned about because that's what that job does to you especially well in rikas you spend so much time there you're there more than your home or doing anything else that's just the reality on it you know

so if you never taking your mind out of that then what you just you just you're fill with the nonsense, right? The inmates is talking about what you're wearing. You got to think about that. And you know, it's literally down to even, like, you're in the uniform and you still care about what people think. Yet we all wear in the same uniform. But how is it that we could look a little bit more jiggy than the other?

That's why inmates do too. That's why they have the special shoes or, like, the jewelry. Like, they'll figure out way is to be a little bit better. That's why glasses are so big in prison. You have the guys wearing the Gucci glasses. I mean, they're probably fake. but still the G-shock watches. Yeah, yeah.

The boots are what always crack me out because you could wear special boots to the visit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guys would have their Timlin boots wrapped up in garbage bags, you know, for their one visit a month. Yeah, yeah. Underneath the bed and they would just treat them like their,

like a $5,000 pair of sneakers, you know? I'm telling you, I'm telling. But look, perception, because it mattered. Even there, it matters. That's what I say image doesn't matter. It matters. It's everything. I guess you have to use it for.

good though you can't let it consume you know well yeah i wouldn't say let it no never let it consume that's what i'm but i'm saying image wise where people's looking for respect so why are you dressing this way how could you look for respect from certain people but you dress in this way you get i'm saying it just it depends i guess on how you want to be looked at and who you want to be in this world that's what really matters right i'm not here to tell you you know what to be or anything but whoever you want to be listen start dressing the part even if you don't have it right now Right? Maybe you want to be a multimillion. Even if you don't got it right now, I'm not telling you got to throw on certain clothes,

but you could still, you could never go wrong with business attire. I say that to anybody. I learned that young 2014, around that time. Literally, you could never go wrong with business attire because people, everybody respects that. Everybody. Yeah. Gangsters, it don't matter who you're talking about. Everybody respects.

I've been doing better with clothes, but I love my like lounge day as like my gym clothes. Right now, I'm just in gym clothes. I love a good relaxing gym clothes day too, you know? Yeah, no, but and I love it. I mean, I play sports. Shorts and that's my style, sweats and all. I love it too. I still do it to this day.

But what I'm saying is in reality, right, if you was going somewhere and you're like, you know what, I don't want to be over the top, right? But I also don't want to be disrespectful where people think I'm a joke. So guess what? I'm just throwing a little polo and, you know, wear some nice little pants or whatever. You don't got to be in a business suit. But what I'm saying is just business attire. You can't go wrong with it.

It's respectable for anybody that sees, you know, that sees the person. That's what I'm just saying, you know? So you got the job at Rikers. Are you hesitant to take it? Because you thought it was going to be a lot longer process, and they got back to you within a few months. No, I wasn't hesitant to take it. I just, you know, well, actually, I was at first.

I'm like, damn, wait, is it too soon? Can I postpone it? Because I wasn't prepared necessarily to just jump and do that. I was doing real estate full time. And actually, I was doing real estate full time. And I had a part-time job. I was working like three jobs selling movies. I was doing so, it was crazy at that time.

Yeah, just straight hustling. And, you know, I had to just sit with myself, this is a good thing. I'm like, you know, I could go on and just start this job. But then I'm like, damn, what happens to real estate? How could I do it? You know what I'm saying? I wasn't too sure. It hit me kind of fast.

But I said, no, I'm just going to take the job. And that's when I started figuring it out where I was like, all right, I still have time. They give you like a month, month and a half to like, oh, yeah, you start this day to swearing, all this stuff. So I had enough time to think about it even still, even if I wanted to stop it. So it was okay. Would your parents?

think about it. Estatic. I thought they were happy. Oh, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah. They weren't like, uh, it's dangerous or? Nah, I play football, man. Football is more dangerous. I'm going to be real with you.

And why I say that is just because if you could put on the helmet pads and running the people, you know what I mean, over and over again, no matter how much it hurts or whatever, it's not really much, you know, not to take away from jail or nothing, but it's like, if I could do something like that, I can work in. I'm working there. I'm not in jail, you know, well, I'm in there. You understand what I'm saying. Did you go into it knowing you're not going to be one of those guys that retires from this job?

Like, this is just a stepping stone you're going to use to pursue your goals and dreams. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So the goal really was I was going to do 10 years there. That was my goal. I ended up only doing five, though. But the goal was to do 10. So do you think that affected your performance having like an outdate in mind, like when you're going to a job and you're not seeing a full future there?

No, my performance was still good. It's just, the job is, you know, it's pretty repetitive. The only thing that really changes is maybe going to a different housing area, but it's the same stuff. Eating at the same time, they're supposed to, you know, lock in at a certain time. It's the same stuff going on. For me, I just hit a ceiling in corrections. That's why I left. It was a ceiling for me.

I started off in a house near high classification, housing area. Then I went on to work in the yard. So that's when I met the whole jail at that point. You know, you, everybody like to see you. Yo, Marcus, your mom, man. Like, you know what I mean? You become like the hero overnight. You know what I'm saying?

That was really cool. And then from there, I ended up getting called to get into the PREA unit, the Prison of Rape Elimination Act. So I ended up in headquarters. Wait, is the PREA unit like for rape victims or for the people that do the actual raping or is it just monitoring? No, it's both. Okay. Well, technically, like, kind of all, yeah, basically. Like the investigations, the victims?

and the perpetrators. Yeah, so even if somebody say, oh, yeah, you know, I was touched yesterday. It's like we get a report in the morning, pop on the computer. It's like, oh, we got to go to this jail. And you're doing the investigation. Yeah, we go there, we talk to him, hey, what's going on? So everything's good. You're good.

You know, figure it out, oh, I got to get out of here, you know, whatever they feel. Then we just take notes on that, say we spoke to him. And, you know, that's it we just report it. So you go through training, you get to Rikers first day. is it, does it meet your expectations, what you've heard about it? What's it like for you? I don't, you know, it's so crazy. I was really more or less going off of TV because, you know, they show, you know, you watch

movies and stuff. And I was like, I was trying to imagine how it would be. And it was like kind of, it was like it, but then again, it wasn't. Especially once they let us do a walkthrough when you get inside the housing area. That's where he lost me. Like the look of it from the outside or like maybe like the front gate. stuff, yeah, that's like the TV stuff. But once you get into the housing area, that's where they lost me.

I didn't even, I couldn't even, anything in it I did not expect. Let me just say that. I didn't know what it would be. And why is that? Why did they lose you? I just think so, it was like, that day, I think the first housing, it was probably like, like 60 inmates in there. I think that's what kind of had me. To see that many people and it felt small, you know what I'm saying, a small environment.

I'm just like, yo, this is crazy. How many officers is here? And I see one person. I'm like, this supposed to be me? Like, this is crazy. Like, that's where they lost me. I said, nah, they lost me. So what happens if they just decide to, you know, I don't know.

Like, you know, let's just, yeah, you know what? Let's get that dude real quick. Let's just, you know what I mean? And what am I going to do? And how long is it going to take for you out of gear? Because it's locked. So I'm just trying to, you get what I'm saying? It was a lot going through my mind at that time.

I'm like, what happens if it goes left? You know what I mean? what happens on the officer like it's planned out what happens you know what I'm saying so I thought about that part and I'm just like you know but I just took it all and I was just there and just observing at that point yeah the ratio thing I found the most interesting when I went to prison because you'd be in a unit of 400 guys say and there's one CO in the bubble that's it one CO for 400 guys in the bubble yeah like in the in the unit like they would have their own office like at the actual facilities like a low even a camp you have one guy for 200 inmates yeah yeah yeah that's

pretty low ratio. No, that, pretty low is, though, that's, come on, that's crazy. Because when they hit the button, they call it compound and stuff, it still takes five minutes to get there. That's what I'm trying to say. They got to lock the doors. They got to, what if the inmates barricade the doors? Like, they're dead.

No, that's what I'm, listen. There's barely any cameras. Like, it just doesn't make sense, you know? No, I don't. At least have, I feel like two people. At least two people. That's what I'm saying. Well, of course, certain areas, when I realized, you know, that was just the first area I've been in.

and why I was one officer was because it was low classification. Now, I didn't understand, you know, step it in there. I don't understand classifications. I don't know, you know, you don't know nothing. So naturally, I'm just like, yo, just one officer.

Like, this is kind of crazy to watch 60. How are you watching 60 people? That's not realistic. You know what I mean? Because I'm like, people's behind you, people's over. But anyway, you know, I didn't want to think too far into it

after talking to the officer. I don't remember their name or anything. I wouldn't even say their name. But long story, sure, after talking to the officer, I mean, it was female too. She made it seem like, nah, this is cool. It was easy day.

I'm always here. You know, it's a steady house. She explained that to me how it goes. And that right there already made me feel comfortable. I'm like, all right, well, if she could do this job, I mean, I should definitely be able to sign up for sure. You know what I'm saying? Do you think females or males are more respected at Rikers Island for CEOs? Man, that's a great question.

Who's more respected? Yeah. I'll probably just say females. But why I would say females, because guys are naturally nicer than females, naturally. Like, they protect females. Except for the creeps that are doing the gun and all that. Yeah, you know that. They're never good. Yeah, yeah, I'm not, yeah, you know that already.

That's what I'm saying. It ain't too many of those that's out loud, let's just say. So what I'm saying is majority of time, they're going to naturally get the respect. Even if somebody tried to disrespect them, somebody would probably step in. Now, a guy on the other hand, they like, my man, let me just see what he's going to do. They may mess with you, you know. But it's like, let me just see if he's going to. and defend itself first.

You know what I mean? It's one of those, you know, so. Was it hard to be as young as you were working at Rikers Island? That probably was the most challenging thing because I was so conflicted. That was actually the most challenging thing, honestly, because I was working in a four building, R&C, and that's when the adolescents was there. So 16, 70s, and, you know, you run into 18, olds, too. It was adults, too, but I was steady with the adolescents.

So, you know, I'm 21, they're 17 or 16. That ain't too far. It's like an older brother to them. You know, I had the waves. They soup into the waves. You know that. So once I had the spinners, they already like, oh, man, how you got those?

And da-da-da. And then it also comes with the challenging factor where they like, they could take you, right? They're like, oh, you know, they want to challenge you, whatever case is. So I think for me, it was just more or less like, all right, Mike, you got to be this way. You know what I mean?

And this way is just, as I know, the terminology would be assertive. It's not over the top. Because I was never over the top person. So how would I say it? If they saw me in the street, this became my line forever. Said this earlier on. I got into it with this kid. He was doing way too much.

So I ended up spraying him. It took time, though, believe it. I gave him a lot of grace, for real. Like, I was like, yo, you're really moving like a clown in here. Like, it's sad. And, you know what makes it worse? I said, these are your first. friends and they're allowing you to move like this. Maybe because they get entertainment out of it.

I'm just assuming. But you know what's the worst part about this? I know you're not a tough guy. I know you're not. And in reality, if we was outside, you would never do this to me. You wouldn't. Did you ever look at these individuals like the kids that were closer in age to you and wonder how they got there, maybe even research their charges a little bit? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot of them because you know what I realized and you you got experience on the other side. But a lot of people that are locked up isn't necessarily like, how would I say?

As violent as we may think they are. I don't feel like we. I don't feel like most of them are even what we consider gangsters. They're entertainers. A lot of them are. Well, I mean, a lot of them are bluffing. And they're doing a flexer.

They've seen something and they picked it up and they're not as hard as they say they are. That's what I'm saying. But you have to be able to identify that. Because if you don't know or you're not from the background, like I said, maybe you're not from certain neighborhoods and stuff, then you go for the bluff all the time. Or if you just haven't had the experience in that environment, you also will go for the bluff. But once you're there long enough, and it won't take that long, but I'm going to just say

just a probationary period two years, you start to realize, oh, man, this guy's a clown here. And when I'm saying the clown, I'm not saying it like to, like, he's a bozo. Some of them are bozos, but some of them are just, they, they don't. Do that for entertainment. It's not even that they're serious about what they're saying to you or anything. You get what I'm saying? They're just doing things for entertainment. Yeah, what I compare it to is the people that say they're rich and flex that they're rich,

but they're not really rich or have money and the social media influencers and everything like that. A lot of this is just for image. It goes back to the image thing too. Goes right back to that. Everybody just want to be seen. You know what I'm saying? And I respect it.

But the way you get seen as a whole is what gets respected. What do you think was the biggest lesson that another correctional officer taught you when you were new on the job that helped you do your job well? That's a good question. So you're saying what type of advice that they gave? Yeah, the best advice and officer gave you. My man Perry, right? Shout us to him.

So he told me he was like, so I met him. I wasn't even steady yet, but it was like my second week. I ran into him literally. He worked upstairs. So I worked five low. he worked five main. So he literally ran into me. He was like, yo, what's up, man? How's everything? And now a lot of officers, when they have time on the job, a lot of them don't talk, like, to young, you know, to younger officers or not young officers, but newer officers, right? Kind of get stuck up, whatever cases. But it is what it is.

Him, no, he had time. But he decided to stop me right before when I said. He's like, yo, man, how's everything? How's everything going on? I was like, no, everything's good, man. You know, he's like, oh, you, yo, do me a favor, man. And I was like, what happened? I ain't even saying it. I just said everything's good. Like I saw smiling. He's like, yo, do me a favor. Don't ever change for nobody.

Don't let this job change you. Best advice he ever told me. Have you seen the job change people? Oh, overnight. It changed inmates. Give us an example. I seen people come on a job. I know them because maybe I came out with them

or I met them when they came on a job. And literally, I gave it a few months, maybe even a year, time. They get comfortable. And before you know it, they kind of just change their whole aura up. But it's due to the environment because they're trying to fit in and be cool. It's like high school. Like literally like high school.

That's the best way I explain it. That's the, if anybody ever wanted to know what Joe was like, I'm telling you, it's just like high school or walking into a neighborhood you don't know. Now, you mentioned they put you on a higher security unit. Yeah. So what do you mean, a higher security unit? Oh, I was in a, you're talking about when I went to a pre-year-year-old. unit? Or there was another unit you had listed in the beginning. Oh, high classification. Yeah, high

classification. Yeah, yeah. That's a higher security. Yeah, yeah. What was that unit like? What kind of inmates were there? Oh, man, problematic. The places nobody wanted to go. So, you know, when you get in, they normally back, oh, you know, you're sitting there. It's a long line, especially if you knew you're sitting there, you're on the line. You're like, damn, you're in the post people getting in a road call, whatever the cases and it's like oh yeah market's five lower south it's like oh my gosh but my thing was everybody so at that time frame i'm paying attention to everybody because i mean that's how you learn so from the time frame when i first came in all the people that had time on the job was complaining about new offices complaining about having to take a bad post so my thing is like

i told you i i never wanted to fall in line with everybody's doing you you You know what I'm saying, the complaining and this stuff. I'm not into that. So to me, when I'm hearing bad posts, 5-Lo-South was the bad post. Pool days call for cookouts and lots of laundry. This Memorial Day at Lowe's, save $80 on a charbroil performance series

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Shouldn't you have more experience for a job like that? I would say yes and no. It's good to do that. Why I would say it's good, because if you could get through that, at that point, you can go anywhere. And how most officers would feel when you have more time, that you should be able to work anywhere. Because you deserved it now because you went through something. They know you know out of jail. So at that point, it's like, if you can maintain a house like that, you know, it's like, yo, you could put them anywhere, right, to do a yard, right?

Because you still need respect out there. You got a bunch of people that's not respected in the yard and now they got two, three houses at one time. They're going to disrespect you. You know what I'm saying? And at that point, it could be way more, you know, dangerous at that point because you got multiple houses together. You know what I'm saying? So I just think personally, it's not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing.

I think it all depends, obviously, on the officer. But I think that principle is not a bad thing. Because if you just get through that little rodeo, the obstacle, I would say, especially like the first couple months, you'll be all right. You realize if this is the worst, I could definitely do this job. Did the job start to affect your real estate business if you're working a lot of hours? Because sometimes you do mandatory overtime, right? Yeah, yeah.

It was mandatory overtime. Yeah, no, it actually. Well, it affected it, but it was in a good way because, like I said, the people that's in there, they need my help. So they need, they may, oh, hey, I'm looking to buy a house. I'm looking to sell. You get what I'm saying? So it was easy for me to just be like, okay, yeah, I'm going to give you a call later on. Because if we all follow each other on Instagram and social media, they see me closing deals and stuff like that.

In between Tom, they naturally like, yo, how's this man in here? See the question you just had, how are you in here at 17 hours? And then you're doing things like this. obviously it's not necessarily by myself because I can't do everything by myself. You have a team. You know what I'm saying? But I'm the trust the advisor. Like I said, I'm there.

So making them feel comfortable that, hey, nothing's going to happen. You could trust my advice and trust the person I got you on the phone with. It all works out. And they was getting what they want and I was getting what I needed. And then we was all good. No, we had your friend Quell on the show, who was a Rikers Island in me. And he had a correctional officer. and he had a pretty controversial view on correctional officers and the job there.

And it was pretty blunt about it. What's your take on that? Oh, yeah. Shout out to my man, June. Yeah, absolutely. So when you say controversy, like, what do you mean? Like, he just... Not in a negative way.

I'd say controversial from in a general standpoint because he was just very blunt about he thinks that inmates are inmates. and, you know, they're locked up, and it's got to be a certain way. Like, you think there's too much coddling, and they're given too many, like, perks, I guess you would say. Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. I agree.

The problem is, man, like, he would probably attest to what I'm saying, and most, almost everybody. The problem is, yes, they're not in there for being good. That's just the reality of it, right? And the problem is, regardless of what they end up doing in there, there's really no real consequences. As you probably already heard, they take away certain things

that we can't even necessarily do to discipline them. So at that point, how do you smack an officer one day and then you get a tablet, you know, next week or something? Like that, it doesn't make any sense. You know what I'm saying?

Or you put him with his friends. You get what I'm saying? And he's still comfortable. Nothing happened. Like the officer got smacked or really got seriously injured and then nothing happened. You know what I'm saying?

Now he got to go home to his family and he don't look the same or whatever you get what I'm saying and I think all of us done seen it too many times happen and like I said there's no repercussions it's PS5 in the spot how do he got P5 before us like this is crazy like you know what I mean so it's just when we you know I understand what he's saying and I think everybody that don't work on Rikers Island because I know it's not necessarily every jail and like especially upstate and stuff like that but I'm talking about Rikers Island specifically, you know, how do you, how could you not feel that way? You know what I'm saying?

When you're hearing about an officer, this happened to him and then, oh, what happens to, naturally, oh, so where's the M.A. now? Or where's the, where's the guy now? Oh, yeah, he's in two main. Two main, okay. You happen to go there, let's just say or work there. And you're like, this man got the P5 in the day room, tablet, in the room. You know what I mean?

It's just like, yo, what really happened? to happen. Yo, what's up, Marcus? Yeah, bro, your man's was fronting, bro. I had to, I had to knock him out. What? Like, this sounds crazy. That's how they talk to. Like, yo, I had to knock him out. What? Yo, that, it's, I laugh about it, but it's not, and I'm not laughing because it's funny. It's just so crazy in me that they make it seem like it's nothing. But let us knock him out, knock his man's out. And then nothing happened to us. Then what? They're ready to retaliate. So what I'm saying, we got to be fair here. That's what I'm just saying. giving inmates electronics like PS5s and tablets reduces violence especially in a place like

rikers or does it increase it because some inmates have it and others don't because of money or what do you think it's like no i think i think it does decrease violence because it just occupies their time right and some of them let's be real most of them probably don't ever have PS5 at home or anything so yeah for sure they occupies their time when i was there and i and i experienced like a housing there with it you know with the PS5 there or it comes in for like a hour or two it definitely he calms down for the moment. Yo, yo, yo, the new game is here. They all in the day room, they play in.

You know, it's not no, they ain't thinking about fighting. And if they all think about fighting, they're going to wait for that cart to go back. You get what I'm saying? It's just a lot of variables in it. So, yeah, I believe it does. I believe it reduces it. Do you think it sends a wrong message, though?

I don't believe that necessarily. I mean, you see a kid maybe watching a clip of an inmate playing PS5 in prison, and he's thinking that's cool to do. It could go both ways. I think it just depends on an individual, because jail is yelling me. I'd rather play PS5 in my house than I'll play in jail any day. Yeah.

I don't care what I've seen advertised. I mean, that's me personally, though. No, I agree with that, too. Yeah, so I don't want to take away from anything. I think it's a good thing. I don't think it's, I don't think it takes away or tells people to come to jail. I don't think that. Now, as someone that's left, the corrections, how dangerous is it truly to be a guard on, on Rikers?

Because I saw something quell post the other day on the story about how two Rikers Island officers got slashed. Huge gash in their head. their face. I mean, that's crazy. No, that's insane, man. And, you know, I don't even know what to say with it. When I see things like that or even hear about it, it just reminds me on why I made the right decision anyway, because it breaks my heart, you know, because people coming in for a job to change their lives and help their lives, provide for their families. And for something like that that happened in there and it never happened in your whole life

is insane to me. You told my regular day-to-day people, probably never been into me. many fights or they've been into a lot of fights, but nothing crazy never happened like that to them. But why things like that end up happening is because officers are not really able to do their jobs. So therefore, it's like it makes you hesitate with a lot of things because you're worried about, am I going to get written up, you know, am I going to lose the job? Am I end up locked up? You remember, it's a very thin line between an inmate and officer. So it's too much to think about, therefore it takes away or reduces your ability to do the job. So do you think it's comparable to policing in today's world, what some cops are having issues with now?

Policing is insane right now. Like, I think it's worse, and I'm going to tell you why. That's why I would never sign up to do NYPD or I never did. And I know what to need it, and I'm not against anybody that signed up to do what they have to do and provide for their family. But I'm just saying that I wouldn't do it or advised to do it because I never liked the whole principle on people. People know who I am and I don't know who you are. Like, anybody's walking by you. Anybody that had beef with an officer

or wanted something to happen to an officer? I'm just saying, and you don't know what people got on them. It's too much to worry about. And then plus, you know, this is the state of where they don't want you to do certain things, right? To do the job. So it's just, you got your hand. You're like the one that's really in handcuffs.

It's weird. You know what I'm saying? And at that point, the hesitation, like I keep saying, it can really cause somebody their life, especially out there as a cop, because like I said, they may have guns and whatever. You know what I mean? You're probably more at danger. You're outside. Have you witnessed a moment while you're on the job that because someone was worried about the repercussions of doing something to defend themselves or just doing their job? They weren't able to do their job fully because of it?

Yeah, 100%. 100% listen I'm telling you I didn't heard seeing people like literally it it takes a wave especially because it's a lot of I'm just speaking about the men on the job these men some of these men super in shape you know work out all that good stuff and they're good people right they're not soft nothing like that but it takes so much from them like where let's just say a inmate talking crazy to them You know, basically antagonizing them in their pants. Yo, come over here again.

It's going to be, it sounds crazy, but like they can't, you know, at that point, it's a lot you got to hold back. But while you're holding back, it's not because, you know, you're soft. It's because you think about, damn, I don't want to lose this job. You know, everybody's situation is different, man. And it's sad because it only comes down to like, I don't want to lose the job to feed my family. It has nothing to do with defending myself and defending myself. And defending myself should be the number one thing on the list.

It should be. At least I feel like that way. If I could defend myself outside, why can't I defend myself at my job? That don't even make any sense. Do they have body cameras in there? Yeah, now they do. Yeah, body cameras. I think that came in the play, I think in like 20, I think,

2019, I think, or something like that. Is it beneficial to have them? I think it is. I don't know why I would say that because now you're supposed to turn it on as soon as you're even going. Like, let's just say you get out of rate and you're upset. Automatically, I'm supposed to turn it on. The whole idea to turn it on just in case it's no like, oh, you know, you can kind of see what led up to the incident.

You get what I'm saying? Now, sometimes it don't happen because the heat of the moment. You ain't thinking about no camera. You're thinking about your life. You think about what's going on, right? He's with his friends or whatever. Like, it's too much. That's what I'm saying.

It's a lot. Cameras, it don't, I think what they should do, and they probably can't do, of course. But what they probably should do is probably make the cameras, forget the body cam. The cameras in the scars should be to everything. You know what I'm saying? But they don't have no audio. That's the problem. So you're just going off a body language and stuff.

And everybody knows the cameras is up there. So it's like one of those things where everybody's just being an actor. They know how to play the camera, not to come off, you know, like they antagonize you. But yet again, they talk it to you crazy. And, you know, everybody, we still got personal lives, man. We've taken care of our family, kids, going through things without. My spouses, all types of things is happening. You know what I mean?

Then I'm coming in to work and this man talking to me crazy like I'm a little kid. You know what I mean? It's just, it's ridiculous. It's a lot. It's a lot. Tell us about working in the PREA unit. In the PREA unit. That was a cool unit.

It was a really cool unit. It was, it was honestly, besides the yard, that was like, that was cool than the yard. Just because I was able to see all the jails on the island and see different. You know, I met a lot of people, Debs, captains, captains. other officers and, you know, basically all types of inmates, you know, and all types, literally, you know. And that's the Prison Rape Elimination Act. Yeah, so like the transgender is like, you work with everybody, literally.

And it was cool, though, because it gave me a scope of, like, the whole prison system, I would just say. Something I would have never seen if I would have just stood in the four-builder. And what was your biggest takeaway from that? It's bigger than one person. So like the things like people don't understand is it's politics, which you hear it, but it's really political. It's a political stance. And it's why I'm saying it's a political stance because at the day, if you lean one way, somebody else is going to suffer.

You lean this way, somebody else's going to suffer. Somebody has to suffer. It just depends on the time of who you want to suffer at that time. Whatever you find it be important right now, that's the decision that they're going to make. And it has nothing to do with on a personal note. How many pre-investigations would you say are reported on average, maybe even a day? It all depends on the jail you work because we all work different jails. So, like, I work two different jails.

Well, I worked all of them, like, on one day, basically, but you were steady with a jail. So usually the biggest jail is the jail that gets usually the most. So at the time frame, AMKC was the biggest jail that was open. and I think they had like, I think, 2,500 inmates or something like that. And, yeah, pretty much that would be the judge that gets, if I had to say, average a day, man, you could be looking at maybe like 10, 10, 15, maybe even 20. How many of those proved to be accurate and true? I can't even really say because it's like ongoing.

So it's like something that it's like, oh, is he telling the truth? he's just trying to move his housing area. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to say it's not true that it is true. My job is just to investigate. To me, I never found nothing that was necessarily true. They just end up, you know, all right, we're going to move him over here. Because whatever's happening is probably not possibly happening, maybe on camera.

Now, were you investigating just inmates or guards, too, that they'd reported on? For me, I was just doing the inmates. So it would be a different division if there was a guard pre-in investigation? No. No, if I'm not mistaken, it would be the same. I just personally never had to speak to an officer. What was like a common denominator in these cases? Common denominator.

Usually it was probably like transgender or, yeah, usually like a transgender. A lot of that, a lot of transgender was complaining because they were, you know, males. But they look like females. So these are biological males turn female? Yeah. Okay. Well, some of them is just in the process, like transitioning. So, like, literally, you know.

So some of them, I didn't even know. Well, it says it on the card, so that's how I know. But when you see them, sometimes they don't look like the card. You know what I'm saying? I don't know how long they've been locked up or when they start the process. So I'm seeing like a guy that looks like a guy. And then, you know, out of nowhere, you know, I see him. I'm looking for him.

And I'm like, hey, is I brown in here? And he's like, I'm right here. It's like, oh, okay, my fault, what's going on? My name is Marcus. I just introduced myself, and then from there, he pulled him to the side usually, and then I would just talk to him. Would there be females turn males house there or no? Female turned male?

Yeah. Yeah, that can happen. I just never dealt with that scenario before. Okay, but they are housed at Rikers. Yeah, yeah. Either or. So I know, I think it was something, I don't know when it came up. I feel like it was like a year ago or something,

But it was a case where somebody was trying. No, I think it was when I was there. So it was a time friend where somebody wanted to go into Rosie's. They was transitioning to a female. And they wouldn't allow him to do it because they felt like he was, I forgot it was the whole thing. They just wouldn't allow him to do it, though. And I think they did do it and then they took him right back out. But he was like, started complaining.

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What do you think is the biggest thing that needs to be changed at Rikers Island? The biggest thing. I think definitely given the officers the power back. And when I say the power back, not to overuse the power, but just given the power to defend themselves, you know. And I think definitely, see, when I was there, and I don't know, you know, it's a lot like could I have changed. I left in 2021. But at the time frame, they was housing, you know, gang members together.

To me, that was never, it was, I guess, looked at it as a good thing because they stayed calm. But the problem is, then they're retaliating. When they're upset, they retaliated on the officer. And now it's more of them compared to the officer. So it was, like, more dangerous for the officer. So I would have said, change that. Make sure that the sales is secure because that was a whole crazy thing at that time frame when I started, man. I'm talking about later they could come out.

anytime you know what anytime like imagine imagine the midnight there's two at night right two in the morning and you're sitting there i've been there 12 well 15 hours something like that i'm sitting there and out of nowhere my man's like yo marcus make sure you wake me up bro for the phones and it's like yo bro what are you doing outside yourself like this you know what i mean it that wasn't good so i hope that they secure the the sales that that will help a lot and i the overtime i think they need to hire more officers, but they need, they needed some type of incentive to make people want to be officers and stay officers. What would be that incentive if you had to pick? Going home. Yo, anybody was staying that job if they could do Ait Escape. I promise you. I promise you,

you have more officers on a job. So that's the biggest reason why people leave and drop off? That's why people leave. If they can have a life outside that job, I guarantee they would stay. Yeah, it's like that in any job. People want to work life balance. Everybody wants that, man. And that job don't provide that at all. It sucks the life out of you. Oh, you're done. You're so worn down. All the money in the world wouldn't matter.

You're done. You're done. And then health-wise, I've seen a lot of people literally come on a job, all in shape, and they just go left. And it don't take them that long, man. I see it gradually happen two years. Once somebody go from brand new to five years, you see a dress of difference in the wait. what's something that the public doesn't know about rikers island that you think they should know about

that the public don't know i feel like the public at least i feel this way no you know what what the public don't know is how hard it is to be a correction officer they really don't understand a challenge of that that that's a that's a task that many people either they go and they just can never do it another day Like me and they're going in one day, one week, and they're out of there. Once they see and feel what it feels like to have to deal with incarcerated. You know, I really think if they understood that, they would give correctional versus more praise and more grace. And they deserve it.

They deserve it for real. Why didn't you make it to that 10-year goal that you had to stay there? Why did you leave after five? I left out the five mainly just because I hit a ceiling. Like I said, I made it the headquarters. And at the time frame, I did my first flip. It was in 2020. I flipped my first house.

And I made six figures, and I looked at myself and I said, my shout-outs to my name, Wisconsin. I was my partner at the time. And I remember him going on vacation. They switched, so they love to switch things on you. They like, hey, you got to start going into the jails once a week, like to work there, like to basically do eight hours. And I'm like, okay, all right, it sucked.

But it's like, all right, cool, where I'm going. So they put us in random jails, whatever needed to help. I was doing that. Then I know where it was close to his birthday, close to Mons too. This was in July, like two weeks before my birthday or something like that. And he was about to go on vacation. So when he goes on vacation, I got to do this Joe by myself, the prayer unit. I got to go see these.

And it's like I said, 20 different people. I still got to assess certain people, whatever the case is. And he was like, yo, bro, they talk about changing our schedule. So you're not going to be off. I think I had Sunday Mondays off. they're going to change it to like you're off like Tuesday. It was supposed to be a whole other day. No, I had Saturday, Sunday off, sorry, I think.

Yeah, I had Saturday Sunday off. He said they're going to change. They change it everybody's. I said, hold on. They changing our schedules? Why? We work so hard to get here. You know what I'm saying?

Then they change the schedule again? I'm lost. He's like, yeah, bro, they're going to change it. But he laughs. So I'm like, bro, that's not funny. Like I laugh too. I'm like, but bro, that's not funny though. That's not cool, like at all.

I'm like, yo, bro, I'm going to be honest with you. He's like, yeah, bro. I'm going to be honest, bro, me too. And I ain't coming back off this vacation. So he's like, yo, Mark, stop playing with me, man. I'm like, yo, bro, I know I'm laughing and smiling, but I'm dead serious. I'm out of here. They changed my schedule.

I'm out of here. And literally next week they change the schedule. And I literally left. Do you feel like you made the right choice? Yeah, it was the right choice for sure. It was the best choice for me. Because I did hit the ceiling in corrections. I never wanted to be a captain.

I didn't want to be a dad, a chief, anything like that. So at that point, I made the headquarters. It's not really nothing else I would have wanted to do there. Do you ever have thoughts about going back since you left? No, absolutely not. No offense. What if real estate didn't work out? Real estate is going to work out.

No, but if it didn't, like, when you had left. I would do something else. Now, if I had to do, right, that's a great question. So if I had the, if real estate didn't work out for me, then I would have did something alongside of real estate. It still would have been real estate related. So maybe it wasn't sales. maybe not as a broker, but it would have been like, all right, maybe I'd be a manager or property

manager. It would have been something along the lawns that's aligned with me and what I want out of my life. Do you ever think about like, wow, I can't believe I work that job? Like, because it's so different than what you do, you know? Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. I feel like inmates can ex-inmates compare it to like, I can't believe I was in prison. Yeah, yeah. No, it's funny because sometimes it kind of is there, but I don't never talk. I don't have really a reason to bring it up unless I met another officer and I want to relate with them.

Like just say, if you were a seller or something, I was talking to you. And you're like, I'm like, oh, naturally, you're like, oh, man, what is it that you do? Oh, yeah, man, I'm, um, I wrote a correction officer. Oh, yeah. Now I would be like, yo, man, listen, God bless you. And now naturally you'd be like, yeah, why you said that? Yeah, man, it's a lot. And it's like, y'all used to work that job.

You were like, work, yeah, where you was at? So, like, at that point, I would relate with him. And I understand, you know what I'm saying, who I understand. who I understand like everything about correct services, what they need, you know what I'm saying, even the things that they don't even know that they need, I understand it. So my thing is I left that job not only for me, I left it for them because I wanted to be that person that they seen leave, right, that most people feel like, oh man, yo, I can't lead this job.

I heard that plenty of times. And in me, I used to like, yo, if this ain't serving you no more, you got to move on, right? Your health, your wealth, everything. If it's not serving you, you got to move on. Your happiness. That stuff matters in life. That matters more than any forms of money, any way you could get it, you know. So my thing is, I left the job not only for, you know, myself.

I love it for them. Because when people see me and they see the success I'm having and something that they know I do, it's like, yo, man, Mark is really doing that, man. Like, that makes other people believe that whatever they want to do, they can do it too, which is true. If they believe it, though. I believe them. If they don't believe it, it's probably true.

But if they do believe that they could be that, you know, outside the job, then it's true. Do you think working corrections has made you more compassionate? Yeah, I think so. What it did was it, I always say, it keeps me, it kept me grounded because it was a point of time where I kind of disconnected from where I'm from. Like, being from the hood, things like that. People thought I was, this blows my mind all the time, but it's funny to me. People thought I was from Long Island. And I used to be looking at them like, yo, bro, I'm from the Bronx. But what it is is self-development started in 2014 for me, the whole Thai Lopez program, mentorship with Jeff, you know, and it stuck with me. I'm reading books.

So, of course, my etiquette is going to change, you know what I'm saying, who I'm associated with, what I'm reading, what I'm consuming. So at that point, I learned how to speak more professional, and it became me. I remember when I, all I knew how to do was really speak. I wasn't terrible with speaking. My mannerisms is always there. But the professionalism side or the slang, oh, man, it was bad, man. It was bad, you know. But I had to change it, you know, over time.

It took time. But I changed it and now it's me, you know. So to hear, oh, yeah, you're from Long Island. Like, as if I don't want to, like, I grow up white picket fences is comedy to me. When I'm like, yo, this is not good. But I guess it is good because it's nothing wrong with that. How they see me. That's how they see me.

So I'm thinking about it. I'm like, that's good. though. They see me as a professional. We should be, we're in there to be professional. We're not in there to be like them. Even though I can resonate with them, I can resonate with any one of them, right? I know the front, it's crazy

because you see people that you even know in jail. You know, it's crazy. When you see the floor car, you're like, man, he's from Cedricab. I'm like, that's where I'm from. That's so crazy. He just, what, a year younger to me or whatever, however he is. So it's just like, the things you see, these people would be like, oh, you're not from here.

But it's like, you know, it kept me grounded. It brought me back to really who I am. That's the best thing I can say about correction. I got to always thank corrections for that. Because it reminded me of really who I am, where I come from, you know, and that's why leaving a job is so meaningful to me and doing what I'm doing now because I'm like, this right here is who I aspire to be. And this is right here.

I want to help lead other people that are incarcerated, whether they're officers or inmates, that they could do something meaningful for themselves when they do decide to move on from that. job. The job doesn't identify you and a situation doesn't identify you even if he was an inmate. So do you think all inmates are bad people? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And that anyone can change. Anybody could change if they want to. It's not up to me. I could talk to them all day. I used to do it. Trust me. Countless. I used to literally, you know, I used to literally, middle and night, especially in my steady housing area and kids, I used to literally stand up,

literally walk the day you know you do your tour and they'd be like yo marcus yo bro hear this real quick i just started writing i just started rapping i'm like yeah let me hear it they just start rapping whatever you know what i mean and it was so entertaining to see everybody stand up and they come to the glass and like i'm literally standing there and they're rapping for me and and you know they feel good they feel like they're gonna make it somewhere when they do eventually get out they really just started rapping and stuff like that like that's cool man it's inspiration Even though we're in that negative environment, if people knew I was doing things like that,

like to even see that on camera, you'd be like, yo, wow, there's great officers out there. It's not just about telling them with the dude. I didn't get in them nowhere. It's about asking them the right question. What are you going to do when you leave? A lot of them don't think about that. They just want to get back to the streets as soon as possible.

But what are you going to do when you get there? No plan? Listen, you're probably going to end up right back here. You have no plan because you're just going to move. You're just going to go with the win. You need a plan in this life. It don't matter what age you are. You need a plan.

Tell the audience what you're doing now, your podcast, everything. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. So, yeah, with me, I'm a real estate broker. I'm servicing the areas of New York State. That's my phone? Yeah, that's yours. That was, oh, yeah, I'm servicing the areas of New York. Nah, this is crazy.

My foot. Not somebody on my lawn. Real estate deal. Yeah, it's hot. But, yeah, I'm servicing the areas in New York State, Westchester County, and obviously the five boroughs. So if you know anybody looking to sell by any real estate, definitely feel free, you know, give me a call, any questions, right, whether it's renting as well.

And with the podcast, me and my partner, Alicia, we got a show called Living a Truth Show, you know, for us, man, we focus, like, we're like, Living Your Truth Show is like the God, you know, how I say, it's the God to the journey of real love, right? So for us, we focus on making sure people live in their truth, right? and the truth in their relationships because I feel like a lot of people they get with people and they put on the facade it's something like

kind of like what we were talking about earlier with jail and people get around each other and they get in this environment or they get with people and they want to impress them so bad to get them and then lose them. It's not to really maintain, right? They have the right intention

because they want them and they really want them and they want to impress them. It's not wrong with that. But anybody could buy a car how many people can keep one. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying?

And that's what the show is about. It's about keeping your love partner, your life partner, finding the life partner if you don't already have one. But the first thing you got to do is be yourself. Well, Mike, I appreciate you coming on the show, man. I appreciate you too, man. Yeah, definitely. We'll have the links to all your stuff in the description. Yeah, I appreciate you, man.

And yeah, man, I'm excited. I love everything you're doing. And, yeah, you are a big reason why this world is spending the right way. You understand me? Because you're giving great people the platform. And I think stories is how we learn. You know what I'm saying? Hearing other people's stories and understand how much we actually do resonate with each other.

Yeah. And just hearing where they come from, you know? Yeah. We're all, you know, not so much different after all. Like, we've all grow up kind in, like, different places, but we have similar values or similar thoughts or similar experiences. And it's always interesting. See, like, some people write in the comments, oh, why do you focus so much on

childhood. It's because we want to know the person before they either did the thing that they did laying in prison or before they became that cop or that correctional officer or whatever, you know, it just, to me, that's interesting. No, that's true. And that's, damn, that's so interesting because I believe our inner child, like, we're adults, but we're still like children at the same time. Like, that inner child is still in us. We still like to have fun. That's why entertainment is still the number one, like, thing in the world. Entertainment. Think of that it's not about money none it's entertainment because we're all like kids it's just adult bodies absolutely you know what I mean so but I appreciate you though Ian for sure

of course all right man