Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a Judge — Then I Had To Survive Federal Prison | Ryan Kamada

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Ryan Kamada was a respected judge in Colorado—until one decision destroyed everything. In this exclusive interview, Kamada opens up about growing up with a solid upbringing, becoming a lawyer and judge, and the crime he committed while sitting on the bench that led to a federal prison sentence. Sentenced to a year and a day behind bars, he shares what it was like going from authority figure to inmate, the lessons he learned inside, and how he’s working to rebuild his life after losing it all. #RyanKamada #ExJudge #FederalPrison #TrueCrimeStory #FallFromGrace #JudicialCorruption #PrisonRedemption #lockedinpodcast Thank you to RIDGE for sponsoring today's episode: Upgrade your wallet today! Get 10% Off @Ridge with code LOCKEDIN at https://www.Ridge.com/LOCKEDIN #Ridgepod #sponsored Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://convictclothing.net/collections/convict-clothing-x-ian-bick Timestamps: 00:00:00 The Downfall of Judge Ryan Kamada 00:08:06 Reflecting on Interracial Marriage Challenges 00:16:03 From Engineering to Law School: A Career Transition 00:24:01 The Journey to Representing Parents in Court 00:32:40 Becoming a Magistrate in Colorado 00:40:49 The Challenges of Representing Foster Kids and Abused Children 00:49:00 The Role of Judges in the Criminal Justice System 00:58:07 Warning a Friend About Legal Trouble 01:05:45 Facing an FBI Investigation 01:14:20 The FBI Profer Experience 01:22:46 Navigating the Legal System and Facing Conviction 01:31:37 The First Step Act and Ankle Monitors 01:39:45 Life Inside: Unexpected Realities of Prison 01:47:52 Favorite Commissary Foods and Prison Burritos 01:55:39 Life Lessons Learned in Prison 02:04:29 Overcoming Personal Struggles through Community Support 02:12:55 The Value of Sharing Personal Stories Online Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit MyFICO.com and get started for free today. I was on top bunk. He stood right up, look me right in the face. And he's like, never say that word again in here. And then one of the toughest Mexicans was across, and he just gets out of his bed. He comes walking, and he looks right at me. He's like, you ever say that to me? I'm going to slap you.

And it just hit me, you know? Ryan Kamada had it all, respected lawyer, appointed judge, and a picture perfect life in Colorado. But behind the bench, he made one decision that changed everything. As a sitting judge, Ryan committed a federal crime that landed him on the other side of the justice system, sentenced to a year and a day in federal prison. In this episode, he opens up about what led to his downfall, the reality of life behind bars, and how he's been able to rebuild his life after losing it all. This is a story of a man who went from handing down sentences to serving one. Ryan, welcome to Lockton, man. Nice to meet you, Ian.

Yeah, nice to meet you, too, straight from Colorado. Colorado. And our first judge on the show, former judge. I've been a lot of first, the first felon in my family. I've been trying to get a judge on. I was in talks with the judge from Florida that oversaw the Parkland school shooting, who had retired and is now on social media. And then like her manager or whatever goes to me after a few emails,

I think after I told them I was a felon too. But I've been wanting to get a judge on. I've had prosecutors. I've had lawyers. We've had everyone but a judge. It would be cool to have my judge that oversaw my case on the show, too. It would. I'm thinking about sending a letter just to let them know how I'm doing and paying the restitution and everything like that.

I'll tell you what, I don't know your judge, but, you know, from sitting in that robe, they leave the door and you have no idea what happened to these families and people. And from my perspective, that would have been pretty special to get an update from somebody. Yeah. Do you think many people do do that? No. I, you know, I think I had, you know, I oversaw the kind of like family law. So a lot of dependency neglect or social service cases, child protective services, what do you want to call it? Divorce, custody, those things.

And every once in a while, well, I'll tell you a story. I had a kid who was in foster care. And there's pretty tight restrictions on kids traveling out of state when you're in foster care. and so, you know, long story short, there's a hearing on whether or not the only way this kid could go is if a judge signed off. And it was just like a vacation, but it was international. And signed off, of course, let this kid go. And I got a postcard from the kid. And this kid was like eight or nine, handwritten old school way, and just thanking me and telling me what a great trip he was having.

So I got that. Every once in a while, I'd get a Christmas Christmas. card of a kid that got adopted or oversaw some of the proceedings. Shoot, just, I'll get emotional a little bit, but like, just before we got here, I got a high school graduation card for a kid. So, yeah, that stuff touches you, right? Yeah. Judges are human.

Yeah, I know a lot of people don't see that. That's why it's so important to talk about it. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Did you watch your honor at all? No, I didn't. I need to get into TV shows. I don't watch TV shows. Conversations like this, I see your podcast or go out socially.

People are talking about this. I don't want, I watch a ton of documentaries. I feel like you should see your honor, only because it kind of pertains to your situation. Yeah. Where just like the, just everything, I'm sure mindset, everything is such a good show. I really enjoyed it. And they didn't like stretch it.

I think it's only like two seasons or three seasons. But it was really well done. The guy that, Brian Cranston from Breaking Bad is the lead. He's a judge. All right. So it's really good. I'll download it before I hit the plane tomorrow.

Yeah, watch it on the plane. That'll be perfect. So did you grow up in Colorado? Yeah, born and raised. Ian never really left my community. In fact, you know, I would describe growing up like blessed, lucky, right? Like great parents, one older sister, small ag community. about a hour north of Denver.

You know, Denver's the city, but, you know, we live about a polar opposite lifestyle. I'm not saying right or wrong. It's just very different. Near to the, about 45 minutes south of the Wyoming border. So blessed and lucky, the way we lived. You know, my dad, my family's story is a great story. And, you know, now that I've learned about why I did,

what I did, who I am. After all this, that I played a big role. My dad, my mom grew up in this farming community, not a lot of money, German, and a small town. My dad grew up, and like, when he was growing up, it's an area five points, Denver. Then it was, you know, that was a bad part of Denver. He was born to two Japanese parents. obviously and they were both interned in the 60s during the war from San Francisco area. My grandma was interned in a Camp of Machi, which is in southern Colorado.

My grandpa was interned in Hart Mountain, which is far north Wyoming. And back then, cool story, our Supreme Court building is named the Ralph Carr, Court. House where Ralph Carr, right when all this is going down, was a Republican governor of Colorado and stood against that, I don't know, against the internment, but like he was welcoming of the Japanese as they were getting out. But a lot of them didn't have money, obviously. So a ton conglomerated into five points Denver where they'd get some jobs and stuff. And that's, my grandma, my grandpa met there when they came to five points.

I had my dad graduated from Manuel High School for just right near where Chansy Billups grew up people are sports fans and my dad was a pretty good athlete

and he came to Northern Colorado was a school there called the University of Northern Colorado by football got injured right away Now this back then Ian was like a very conservative

mostly white community and my dad moves into this community starts dating this farm girl, my mom and my dad was really good with cars he grew up loving cars in fact before he died he was a director marketing but he was really, really good world-class motor sports announcer, sports announcer.

And we had a local track, pretty big Bandemere Speedway, where he ended up announcing there for years and years before he died. Any rate, my dad started working for a small parts store in this little town, but this part store was like where all the farmers got their stuff from. and he ended up buying that parts store, man. I was born and raised in that part store pretty much. And that was where all the farmers hung out, coffee, donuts, taught me bad language. You know, that's where it was.

So I was so lucky. And when my mom and dad got married, so far this community's come. There wasn't a church in town that would let him get married because of interracial. Really? It's crazy, you know, like, and now you don't even, you know, I grew up in this small town. We didn't see color. We didn't see money differences. It's been the night one night with a kid who I swear their family probably struggled to order that Domino's pizza we had.

Next week I'm at a very wealthy. We just didn't see the socioeconomic difference. And, man, it was lucky, Ian. Like, God bless me with a great family. A great place to live, you know. Was anyone in your family in the attorney world, law enforcement, anything like that? My dad did politics as a mayor of our small town for 10 years. That's as close as a guy.

I don't know. I didn't know. Like, we didn't, we just didn't, we didn't interact with, you know. There's a little bit larger city right by us, but still a small city. Like, you know, we, we didn't cross past with that. We didn't need to, really. I don't think. I never saw it, you know.

So, no, I never knew a single lawyer growing up. What were you like in high school? Again, blessed and lucky, right? Like, totally lucky that somewhere along the lines I got passed along, school came pretty easy. I got really good grades. I was a really good athlete, you know, stupid Uncle Rico stories, you know what I'm saying?

Like, you know, all state football, conference three sports, all that stuff, you know. And just an incredible good neighborhood and friends, friends that, you know, that stuck by me through this. You know, and I probably put some of them in bad positions. But yeah, man, they're back home still my biggest. fans and, you know, good people. Did you know what you were going to do when you grew up?

No, really. You know, I was, you know, I got involved in drag racing young. They had, like, a program for kids, and somehow I was pretty good at it. And so that was kind of where my thought was is I wanted to be a professional drag racer, and one day my dad tells me, tells me, he's like, you know, look, you're going to be sweeping floors at some guy's mechanic shop. during the week and then you're going to hit the road and live that he's like you need to go to school and so uh it's like all right um you know again i then my mind switched to i just wanted to play a sport

i wanted i won't that was me you know i wanted to play sports i was looking at you know but 510 man you know 150 pounds soaking wet there's not a lot of college spots for kids like me um I think I was fast and played hard, so I started getting recruited. Got an offer to play football in South Dakota. I was looking to go play basketball at the Coast Guard Academy. Then I got injured real bad in my senior year. I didn't know if I was going to run again. I got my foot ran over by a F-350 farm truck.

Oh, wow. But it went real well. I got five screws in my foot. I missed like a month of baseball. So it's kind of in the air there. And I got accepted then right before I graduated to a really good engineering school. It's called Carl School of Mines. And my dad was like, you're going there.

Like, you know, I was raised with a lot of Japanese values, culture. My dad kind of really assimilated. My dad's family, you know, never complained about the internment and stuff. but one of the things was, is, that did get passed, was you do something for the next generation. You know, my parents, you know, they didn't get graduate college, but they gave me the foundation to do that. So my mind was, all right, my pass along was back then, probably immaturity and stuff, but I'm going to make enough money, and my kids don't have to take school loans out if I'm blessed to ever have kids at that time. That was my mindset.

So money was a driving factor. I was good at math and science. So I go to this engineering school and lucked out, I got a baseball scholarship to play there. And it's only about an hour from my hometown in Division II school. And so I got an engineering degree and played baseball, man. How did your dad feel about you in sports? My mom and dad and my sister, an older sister, they're everything. My dad was so busy.

He was commuting an hour. and 10 minutes to work every single day, Monday through Friday, the weekends he was announcing the events. I mean, busy. My mom was busy. At that time, she had gotten a government job, but Ian, they were at every single sport. One of my biggest regrets, Ian, is, you know, you lose a game, come off the field, and you're in a bad mood. You know, it wasn't thanking them. Like, you know, you know, thanks for being here because, you know, you're either too cool for that or you worry about the sport. They're biggest cheerleaders,

biggest cheerleaders. Yeah, my mom and I were just talking about that last night, how kids love their parents growing up, and then they get that teenage 20s, and they just didn't want nothing to do with them, and they don't realize until later on how important that relationship is and how close they are with them.

Right. But I also think that's healthy, too. Like, you raise you, you know, I hope one day I raise my kids the right way to where they want to, Be away from mom and dad and, you know, push boundaries a little bit. Get out there. It's a huge world.

You know, but then it comes back around. You're like, gosh, darn it, man, like the sacrifices they were making. I mean, I, you know, every time my son says, let's go play catch, or my son's 12, let's go play catch, or I want to play baseball or basketball, man, I will, I'm there, you know. I do not want to make, man, I'm tired, worked all day. You know, no. I'm cherishing these times because I think that's what my parents gave me.

Do you end up finishing your degree for engineering? Yeah, so I was in my – so this is a pretty tough school. Most students, especially athletes, don't finish in four years, usually four and a half or five. So I'd played my four years of ball and I was on my fifth year finishing up. At this school back then, I don't know if they still do it, but the different sex of engineering, So mechanical, electrical, civil. You get a team of one student from each set, and you do a senior project.

And we're working on our senior project, and we started exploring the idea of patenting this project. And we met a couple of times with this guy, and he's pulling up in a BMW, Mercedes. And finally one day, I'm like, what do you do? I'm a patent lawyer And

Just started BS and about that And he's like you know You gotta pass a bar to be a lawyer Yeah I know that But there's a separate bar exam to be a patent lawyer And you have to have a technical degree It's like if you're thinking about law school We need

Technical degree based applicants And I was immature In the sense of You know I was single I wanted to make money And I didn't see myself and nothing wrong with this but I'm somewhat of a social guy

and see myself like drawn click an auto cat all day and I know there's other jobs but in my mind that's what engineering was that I was exposed to. I've never exposed to engineers either so I drove to my dad's office and said dad I'm going to go to law school

I'm going to apply. He's like what? Like yeah I'm going to apply he's like well I don't afford this I don't know we'll take loans we'll figure it out I'm like all right man getting my biggest cheerleader it's rock and roll uh so i'm literally like and back then it wasn't you know it's not that long ago but it is in the sense of the internet like i didn't know he had to take a test to get into law school how to apply i didn't so i've literally learned how to that i had to

take this entrance exam the l sat i i'm not kidding you i literally went to barns and noble took a book off the shelf, didn't even buy it, bought a cup of coffee for three nights in a row and just read like how the LSAT worked and practiced questions for like three nights. Never bought the book. Took the test and got accepted. And the University of Denver. And you passed with a high score? It's just a score.

I don't think I scored that high because I didn't get into like, you know, the, I didn't really apply. I'm a hometown guy, so I wanted to go to somewhere in Colorado. But I did visit, like, ASU and stuff like that. I had some friends living there. Took one foot on that campus, and I knew I would not be successful at that school because of the environment, you know.

And so I just applied to DU. That was it. Like, got in and, you know, and the rest was history through law school, at least. All right, guys, let's be real for a second. My old wallet looked like it had a day. just been through a war. It was bulky, busted at the seams, stuffed with the receipts I didn't need, and every time I sat down, it felt like I was sitting on a cinder block. Then I found Ridge,

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I was going to do the patent because they make really good money and we need them. You know, they're really good money. But my second year, I got a job. And this, Dan Berry is included in this story. Okay, great. So I get a job with a small company owned by GE. And like in their in-house division. Worked there my second year.

My third year's starting to get, you know, last semester. And now I'm like, all right, you know, I got to start thinking about jobs. God bless me, got a job offer with GE. I'm excited. I opened the email and it was in Danbury, Connecticut. And I had never heard of Danbury. Little did I know that this is like, you know, Fortune 500. There's a lot of big, big office jobs here. But again, my friends, my community, my family. I mean, you're still in your, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're town you know I didn't think I'd be happy and I don't think my son will ever believe the next part of this story but this is the honest-to-god truth I literally opened the phone book back then

and started calling every law firm that was listed in there in this the city that's by our town called Greeley Colorado girl picks up the phone right she's like this is Carla This is growing into high school with a friend of mine. And I'm like, Carla, I'm looking for a job. Like, I'll work for free until I, you know, this summer while I'm studying for the bar exam. She's like, can't go to lunch with these guys. They're great guys. Worked for a couple months as like an intern.

They started paying me after I take the bar before the results come out. Got a job with them. Four years after that, I bought a third of the company, the law firm. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I literally phone booked it. And that whole law firm was just patents? No.

So I forgot that part. No. I mean, there's no real intellectual, real big intellectual property work in that area of Colorado. I mean, we're by Denver. There's some IP lawyers. I'm not knocking them. They do a good job and stuff at all. But, you know, for young, you know, fresh off the bar exam, there was no job.

So it was like first case. I get, you know, I think, I don't know what it was, you know, family law or like, DUI or something. And I go in the courtroom and I'm like, I want to be in the courtroom. For me, like, you know, I love, wins and losses kind of drive me. Like, I'll prep better. Just that adrenaline. Something at stake. Yeah.

Something at stake. You know, and I want to, I was like, I love the courtroom. So if you want to be in a courtroom as a young lawyer, you do family law. because that there's a ton of cases you don't have to market a lot um because of the mass amount of cases and you're in court um and they're big they're good trials you know um you take your average divorce with a house with some equity a couple cars i'm not even talking kids you got a retirement you know that's a that's a decent size money's at stake you know and you adding kids. That's the real deal for court from my emotions, the way I'm built. And so that's what I

did. One day I'm sitting in court waiting for my case to get called and there's a child protective services case going on. And in Colorado, the parents in a child protective services case get a state appointed lawyer. It's a great program under certain financial guidelines. But in Colorado, I don't, I don't know other states. In Colorado, the kid gets a state-appointed lawyer that represents the best interest of that kid. And I'm watching this and I'm like, I want to do that. I want to represent these kids, you know. Hearing's over. I walk right up to the judge. Kind of out of my character is Judge Lohenbach, who's now a retired active judge still. And I said, I want to do that. and again i got lucky like i'd just done a case where i did pretty good he's like yeah he's like

but everybody wants to represent kids right like you got to get you got to build your resume and he's like nobody want to represent parents and i am changed man to this day he said i'm going to start a point you represent these parents nobody wants to represent parents like got their kids yank from them you know it's worse than public perception than a public defender and god bless those great lawyers that do that good work um change my life man like you know yeah it's just like prison like there's parents that should not be parents it's a small percentage of a little you know like you get these parents stories and you start fighting for them try to help them somehow um and i just that's why I described my childhood as lucky and blessed because I see these stories.

I'm like, man, these parents never had a shot. Let's see if we can help them. We've got some services so we can help them. So I did that for a few years. And then the opening came to represent the kids and got the dream job. You're not going to be rich, but I was okay. Representing these kids from infants to 18. year olds.

And man, I missed that. Why do you think you didn't get in a criminal law? I did. I did do criminal law again because that's what's walking in the door. So yeah, I did criminal defense. Yeah, I handled, I think, which is a lot for a private attorney that young. I think by the time I got to the bench, I'd done like 30 some jury trials. Yeah, that I first chaired.

Yeah, you know, I did. I did felonies, but nothing. Didn't do anything, you know, no homicide cases or anything like that. Probably a lot of DUIs and stuff like that. DUIs, assaults. Yeah, again, that's what's walking through the door. And look, you know, the way I grew up, you're friends with everybody. I was so lucky.

I don't care what side of the tracks you were on. We're friends. We ran around together. You know, everybody from the well-to-do to the not. I don't know what it was about back then. Or maybe it was just that, I don't know. So, you know, I didn't have to, my phone's ringing off the hook. Hey, my cousin got in trouble.

You know, hey, uncle's getting a divorce. You know, hey, man, I'm, you know, me and my brother. You know, we tried this business that failed and now we got debt. So my phone's ringing to do everything. And I loved it. Loved it, Ian. Like, just being with your friends, you know, help. and your friends and there's a there's a there's a there's kind of a taboo about representing friends and

family you know some people say you shouldn't do it um I think everybody's different for me I did it's just I don't have to advertise you know so anything that came in the door I was willing to dive in and learn and do it when you represented clients in criminal cases did you ever think to yourself you would never be one of those clients absolutely man like i never thought in a million years and this is no knock to people but you know i in despite the sprinklings of drugs on that my personal case was in the shadows of i've never even seen a drug other than marijuana i've never even you know and of course i got friends that i was growing up with that were getting involved and again i'm not knocking

people at all. My dad had a saying of daytime friends. Like when the son's up, you do what you want with these people. You hang out, man. You love them. You be loyal friend. Small percentage of these guys, Ryan,

that when the sun goes down, you're not part of it. And even those sundown friends to this day are still some of my best friends. But I was just, able with my parents' upbringing to keep an arm's distance. I never thought in a million years I'd be in that place. Never.

In fact, you know, I was teaching lawyers' ethics. You know, I was rising the ranks quick. You know, it was part of all these continuing legal education. And I'm on every board in the community. Yeah, man, no. No. Never. How does your career shift from attorney to a judge and so quickly and so young?

It was very quick. Probably an ingredient that led to my situation. And I don't want to say immaturity as this cheesy pass-off. You know, I did what I did. I own it to this. I'll own it. Be transparent. But it was quick.

Again, lucky. I got the thing about being an attorney is yeah there's guys that know the law inside and out you know and I put myself in an average category back then of knowing the you know I was a little above average I think on the rules of ethics but I'd out prepare everybody in the courtroom and so I was winning winning is a bad word I was doing well to the judges

and I think it caught our chief judge's eye, and I know it did, and other judges. And in other part, I think I think I'm lucky from some gene that my parents passed along, and I'm pretty easy to get along with, pretty easy team member to work, you know, on a team. And a few years go by, and the chief judge and some other judges are talking to me,

like, do you want to, have you ever thought about, Getting on the bench. I'm like, no, I don't have an Ivy League law, you know. No, like, and then I'll never, here's what changed me. I'm in a trial, and this is a termination of parental rights. In my opinion, other than the death penalty, there's no other more serious order a judge can make than terminating a parent and a child's relationship.

So I'm in a trial, and I'm representing the death. who was incarcerated many years. He didn't have a chance in this case. But the mom was, she was trying, you know. And the day one of the trial ends, and we're little behind schedule. So the judge says, hey, guys, instead of 9 o'clock tomorrow, I'm going to start at 8 o'clock.

I wonder everybody here, let's get rock and roll on 8 o'clock, get the hearing done on schedule. And the lawyer for the mom stood up. I'll never forget this. I'm sitting right next to the mom. So it's like, me, mom. her lawyer and the lawyer stands up she goes judge I'm not really a morning person and the look on that mom's face you know and I'm just like I need to get in a spot with power up there you know this isn't right you know and so then I started diving in started studying how do you become a judge what's the application process I don't know who appoints judges I don't, you know.

And then I get a call one day, and it was a magistrate. He's still practicing. A good friend of mine, and he said, get your application ready. Somebody's going to retire. And this is for a magistrate spot. So we've got magistrates and judges. Not a big difference. One big difference is who picks the magistrate.

Judges are appointed by our governor through a merit selection product. Great process. Colorado is the epitome of how to appoint judges. It's not political. It's not a vote, raising money. But the magistrates are appointed by your local chief judge. So I knew I had a shot. I applied.

I got the gig as a magistrate. So I do that magistrate for, I don't know, shoot, I'm terrible at 10, three, four years. And one of them are district court judges. District Court in Colorado is the highest level of trial court before the Court of Appeals. They're retiring, and my Chief Judge says, man, you've got to apply. So I applied. It's a selection process where it's like, I'll get this wrong, but it's like three non-lawyers, three lawyers, two community members or whatever. It's this big group you sit at a table.

half Republicans, half Democrats, certain percentage independence, and they narrow that process down to three people who then go up to the governor and get interviewed by our governor and then the governor. Bonjour, compadre. It's the Priceline negotiator. How do I negotiate so many great travel deals?

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The app let you filter hotels by neighborhood, vibe, star level, and amenities like pools and spas and beach fronts. Wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting me up. This is a paid message from GoFundMe. Meet Juan Naula. When a son was hospitalized for a viral infection, Juan started a GoFundMe to pay for medical expenses. It was 5K to pay the bill for my son. And I need only 22 hours.

It was amazing. People really trust on GoFundMe. How did Juan raise $5,000 in less than a day? He posted a short video on GoFundMe, telling his story in 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Be specific, be quick, and tell what are you going to be using the funds for? I was nervous to do it because it doesn't feel okay to ask money, but you shouldn't be nervous. Sometimes you just have to do it and see the results.

we were able to save my son's life. Thanks to GoFundMe that we still have my son with us. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com. That's gofundme.com. Gofundme.com. This message reflects one person's experience. I appoints that one, so then I get the gig. So the magistrate, when you get picked as a magistrate,

it's not like it's circumvents the process at all because a governor still has to pick. Exactly, to be the judge. Do you have the upper hand as a magistrate already practice? You're working with the other judges. I think it's a double-sided sword. A lot of people ask, like, lawyers that want to become judges ask me that. Like, I think it's a double-edged sword for one of two reasons.

A is if you have weaknesses, they're going to be exposed as a magistrate. And every lawyer is going to know it, and they're going to give that opinion to the governor or the local selection committee. The other side of it is if you're doing well, yeah, it's going to help you get up there. I mean, you're tested and proven at that point. You're doing everything a judge does except an actual jury trial. You're still doing all trials to the court. You're doing everything except a jury trial as a magistrate. So, yeah, your time tested.

Yeah, so in federal court, like the magistrate, you see the magistrate first for bond hearings. They deal with all the pretrial stuff until it gets scheduled for trial, and then the judge kind of takes over. And even some cases, the judge will still refer, like, bond motions when I had bail motions and stuff. He always referred it to the magistrate. He never got involved until even after the trial was over. Yep. Super similar. Yeah.

It's similar. Yeah. And now is the pay scale the same? No, you make more as you go up. Magistrates make a certain amount. And then a county court judge, which is like misdemeanor offenses. They don't, county court judges do not do family law cases. But they'll do, again, I'll get this wrong, but civil controversies under a certain amount.

I can remember what is 20,000 or whatever. And then there's district court that does the felonies, the big money cases, all the family law docket. And that was the opening that was there. So I applied for that district court. So it was a state district court position. State district court, you got it. Yep. And how old are you when you got the magistrate?

Oh, man. Well, I'm 46 now. It was, geez, I can't even remember now. I was in my late, mid-late 30s. Wow. I was young. Yeah. It was really young.

So I was telling you earlier that I read John Grissom and he has this book about a judge who was the youngest judge picked in his area. He was like early 30s, but he became a serial killer. So he was an active judge and a serial killer at the same time. But you remind me of the age thing, not the serial killer part. Yeah, I was definitely. one of the, if not the youngest judge has ever appointed. And first Asian in my community. How did your family feel about you becoming a judge?

Proud, you know, darn proud. And I'm not saying this, but like, I think my parents and my sister and my friends, like expected me to do something bigger, like something pretty. And it's, I don't like saying that because, judge ain't no different than some guy working that cornfield they're not you know but to society i guess you know you have a lot of responsibility and power i get it but they i think they expected me to do

something and when it happened um yeah he's really proud you know i felt like um you know my friends and like I was doing this with my friends and my family too. Like, you know, my dad was annoying because my dad bragged about me. You know, every time I meet somebody, man, your dad sure brags about you. Yeah. Did you start to build the family of your own? Yeah. Oh, man.

They're down in the city, New York City right now at the 9-11 Memorial. I got it. My last year of law school, I met my wife of, oh, no, 16 years now, who she's a NICU nurse and we have two kids 12 year old and an 8 year old oldest boy youngest is a girl

Raisin Madden and yeah we Ian I don't know how anybody in prison can do it without that like

you know my wife is the rock man we have such a great marriage relationship um she worked overtime to get through it um you know she you know raised our kids the right way through this um um you know i know we'll talk about it but when i told her what i did um she's like of course you did Like, I'd be mad at you had you not done that, you know? She's a rock, man. She's a stud, you know. She's, you know, I just feel bad for those guys in there right now. My old friends and stuff that don't have that, you know.

Yeah. Tell us about your time as a judge. What kind of cases you were overseeing what that looked like? Yeah, it was the greatest job I ever had. It wasn't a day that went by. I know my old judicial clerk clerks would vouch for this to this day. You know, I would walk in. I said, this is the best job I've ever had.

I mean, that was it, Ian. You know, I didn't want to go to the Court of Appeals. Guys would bug me about that. This was it. I handled most a large percentage of the family law docket. And no judge wants that docket. is you can knock government workers all you want and i know the public perception you know it's nine to five in that family law docket in colorado is a monster you're working many hours

writing orders on the weekends at nights three in the morning in the office um it it's a monster nobody wants that and it's family law i loved it like i loved it like i loved it like because I just always thought that I'm a normal person and I'm going to make an order to help you guys. I know you guys can't see it right now or your kids are struggling. Like I think this parent has these strengths. This parent has these strengths.

This makes something here that gives your kids the best foundation moving forward after this traumatic separation on them. Like I really cared, man. I'm not just saying that, you know. Foster kids. kids, you know, kids that have been abused, like, I really tried, Ian, just because, like, I think I associate myself for a few more comfortable with people of that demographic

than the big time, you know, big civil cases and stuff. And those lawyers are amazing, don't give me wrong, but I just, you know, I try to, you know, when a kid comes in, I try to take good notes. I know that kid's a Chicago Bears fan or whatever, walking. Hey, do you watch the Bears game? You know? I really, really tried. So I loved it.

And when I was interviewing with the governor's office, you get the standard question, why you want to do this? And I don't mean this to sound pompous, but this is the truth. Like, I want to do this because I don't trust other people making these decisions.

There's great judges, good judges, and then it goes down, right? Any other industry? And some, judges I would come in front of with families they just I could tell it was their job standard order standard language you know I just I trusted myself making these decisions more than just because I cared I think so I never wanted to leave that

docket and that's where I stayed did you have a lot of individuals that were formerly incarcerated in front of you yeah in fact going back even to when I was an attorney represented, when I was representing parents, a lot of them were incarcerated because they qualified for a state paid lawyer, obviously. And then that carried over. Yeah, a lot of guys, you know, like a lot of parents had criminal records that obviously the other lawyer is going to use against them in their custody fight all the time, probably on a daily basis.

And again, I, you know, I don't. want to you know the pendulum can swing too far sometimes and and um but i will say like and you know there's some people with decorated histories that are darn good parents and there are some that are not right and i think i'm pretty well at recognizing the difference you know not painting with that broad brush that we all as a society, including myself, are susceptible to because we got to get cases going. We got to get through the docket. That's the part I refuse to do is, you know, all right, you know, you got this criminal history. Tell me about it, you know. It changed or would you learn or, you know, do you know your kid's kindergarten teacher's name? You ever taken me to a doctor's

appointment you know like things like that are you dad and if you are it's rock and roll you know you you're gonna you're gonna keep being dad you know what was your personal perception of those individuals maybe ones that you know abandoned their kids and ended up in prison or battle addiction or anything like that i mean individuals that we see on the show all the time nine times out of 10 they lost their kids throughout the process and they're doing great now but there was a point where I'm sure those types of individuals appeared before you. All the time. My idea was this, and I think I probably said,

probably lawyers got sick of hearing this is, if you want to be a dad, even if you haven't, or a mom, whatever, you want to be a parent, even if you haven't, now is the time you're in front of a court, kind of a crossroads in this situation. I'm going to give you a rope. And here's the rope.

You can pull yourself out of this hole or you can hang yourself with it. but I'm going to give you that rope. That was my thought about that. And I wanted those parents to walk out the courtroom understanding why I did what I did, and I want them understanding that here is the consequences, good or bad.

You're going to keep using? You're going to keep not showing up. You know what the order is going to look like on a permanent basis, semi-permanent basis. How does it feel to have that much power? You know, as a judge, you can affect the outcome of someone's life for the immediate or the long-term future. Is that a weight on your shoulders? Yeah, it's a big responsibility, and there's no doubt that a lot of sleepless nights, if you care, a lot of tears.

I'm what emotional guy, tell. A lot of tears You know Grumpy nights at my wife Stuck by me You know like you know I just want to go to my bedroom Um

Watch something stupid on TV But But but Ian like Again I don't want this to sound pompous I trusted myself You know what I was ready to make a decision

And And I will live with the consequences Of every decision I make if it's an area that I know something about. I'm not ignorant. You know, pretty easy to say, I don't know that. You know, go hire somebody. But I wanted to make those decisions.

I wanted that responsibility. Did you ever make a decision and then reflect back on it and realize that was the wrong one? You know, I think I'm, I am confident in my decisions from what I knew at the time. what I there are there are some situations that I look back that I'm disappointed in the way I communicated that decision to the person because it was important to me that if you agree or disagree with me when you walk out the courtroom you know why I did what I did so I think there were many situations that I didn't take the time to communicate because you're just case after case and you may not use sometimes you know it's getting to be 430 and you got staff that needs to to go home. You got the

sheriff's office time you close up the courtroom. We got to get everybody at. We've got to get home. So I may have cut people short on the communication process. What do you think is the biggest misconception that defendants or even plaintiffs have about

judges? That everything's rubber stamped. There's a cookie cutter formula for your bond amount, for your sentence, for your, and that the judge imposes that and they go home and live their fancy country club lifestyle you know that that is far from the truth like you know you go home and you dwell on those decisions and you struggle with them and you know maybe i would tell somebody hey i'm going to get you this

order by friday friday comes and i'm working on i'm like i've got to take more time on this you know so the weekend passes and it's late you know the order's late comes out the next week But I think there, I think there is a perception, and maybe some don't care. You know, maybe some don't. But for me, that bothered me. You know, I care what other people think of me, unfortunately, maybe too much. You know, that, oh, he's just going to set this upon. Like, no, man, I want to hear.

Like, do you have a job? Am I going to, if I give you too high of a bond, are you losing that job? You know, on the other hand, like, this guy. even though the crime he's charged with or girl is not that serious they're dangerous almost at a high bond again that don't paint with a broad brush

hear it out get the facts I think there's that perception that oh no you got this crime previously you're charged with this here's your bond or you know here's your sentence no man like that we need to be very specialized you know we've the greatest system

in the world Ian it is not perfect by any means you and I both know that but it's the best when it's done right did you oversee a lot of criminal cases no I didn't um I knew I wanted to because I wanted to build my resume to where I could cover anybody's docket and stuff so I was starting to but what I did do is this and this will eventually be part of the story every judge gets what's called an on-call assignment, which means you are on call to law enforcement 24-7 for a week, two weeks, whatever the time period, however your district runs it. And when you're on call in our district, we were so busy that we had to run bond hearings

on the weekends. So I would do all those bond hearings on the weekends. out at the jail, you walk into the jailhouse, sitting for me to you, somebody charged with anything and everything, and you set their bond. The other thing, when you're on call, and even when you're in the courthouse, you've got to sign the search warrants for an emergency or something. Law enforcement will call you at two in the morning, be like, hey, we need a search warrant. Here's what's going on. Okay, email me the affidavit, blah, blah, blah. sitting there at the courthouse. We'd get an instant message.

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Terms apply. Facets of the criminal case I did. Is it hard mentally to set bail and let someone go free? I mean, we see all the time the judges will let someone out and then they'll go and commit another crime. and then we also see it reversed where the bail is set too high and that person didn't do the crime or, you know, it just... You get it. You get it.

You get the ping pong. I feel like society, everybody picks a side of that. There's no right side here, you know? Yes. And when you're setting 30 bonds in an hour. Like, you know, there's factors. Are you a flight risk? Your criminal history.

The allegations against you. Like, to gather. all of those facts, analyze them, and set the best bond we can for that person and society to protect them is hard. And that's a problem. You know, what's the solution? Of course, more resources, more judges, more time. I get that, you know. But shoot, Ian, like, I try to stay down the middle and, you know, when I get friends, family, social interactions that are so once, I'm well that judge let them out and they commit them. Yeah, I get it.

That's a problem. But what you don't see is that person that has been sitting there for eight months in jail lost their job and they beat the case. Or, you know, it's a very low-level case. There's just, I don't have the solution. I wish I could sit here and talk to the bond commission and tell them here's the solution. There isn't. So the best thing we can do is hire judges that care and give them the time and resource. sources to make the best decision they can.

I do like the federal system's bail system where it's not based on money. It's based on are they a flight risk? Are they a danger of the community? And they're looking at other examples. Sometimes prosecutors reach a little bit with what those examples are. But for the most part, the judge can look at, like if he's charged with a crime from two years ago and he's working a job now, the chances are is not dangerous, a danger of society or a flight risk.

Right. And there's also, you know, good, good. There's prosecutors that you also don't, a lot of society that doesn't see that part that they actually asked for a lower bond because they're trying to do the right thing, too. You know, they are. And then you'll get good defense attorneys that are prepared for that. They've got their boss ready to tell the judge, hey, this guy's a great worker. He hasn't missed a day of work in two years, you know. So the attorneys need to take some responsibility, just the judge too it's a whole system um yeah and you know we're in the society of headlines and and yeah there's mistakes that get made um there's no doubt Ian um but man it's just it's hard you know

try to do the right thing for both sides yeah how long were you on the bench for before your situation came about almost five years as the actual judge not as a magistrate so i was a judge for i mean it was now granted i say five years because literally i was doing the exact same thing as a judge as a magistrate you know they're very commingled i was only sworn in as a judge for less than a year when your incident happened yeah wow that was quick all right so uh tell us about what exactly happened um yeah unfortunately for the entertainment factor of your podcast it may not be that entertaining because all right man i um get a call as the on-call judge hey judge uh we got a he called it if i remember right i can get the terms wrong a tracker warrant i really didn't really know what

a tracker warrant was i figured it'd be a cell phone or a uh a vehicle um device to track a vehicle whatever and the the law enforcement officer says yeah it's a drug case and i don't know if you want to do this one i'm like yeah what's up And he said, well, you're friends with the target on Facebook. Now, again, you and I grew up here. So I'm like, you know, friends with people, you know, I'm not that active, but I have accounts. And, you know, post, you know, my little boy hitting a home run or my daughter graduated at preschool. And, yeah, I, you know.

But I said, well, who is it? You know, because I'm friends with everybody around here. And he says the name. Like, yeah, I know the guy. Went to high school with him. Again, he was a daytime acquaintance. I wasn't friends with the guy. Like, I knew him.

We see each other, what's up? You know, how you been? Always knew he was probably into some drugs and, you know, it's just the reputation in the community. I knew he was, you know. Didn't know to what extent. I didn't think it was anything big. You know, I didn't know.

But this particular person, my at that time my best friend i mean family trips talk every day um video games at night you know travel just his wife my wife good friends grew up in the same towns um my best friend um still hung out with him not with me but like and i knew was kind of a problem in his marriage because his wife great lady great job

didn't like he would hang out with him again we are the type we're similar me and him we don't knock you know we don't we're friends with everybody man like and um he would still hang out with him you know meet up for a beer I thought

um and um so um And my friend had just gotten appointed as a local principal. So he was on his way up to. He's younger than me. He's on his way up too, doing good stuff.

That was it, literally. Sorry, it's anti-climactic. That was it. So I tell the uncle, I'm back to the on-call law enforcement. I'll be real. It was like 10 o'clock at night. I was getting kind of tired. Yeah, I'm friends.

I'm like, yeah, give it to the next judge. that happened a lot, especially with me, because growing up there, and a lot of conflicts of interest. I was like, yeah, give it to the next show. So we had, you know, a ladder of when that happened. It happened often. That's the last I really thought about it. I never opened the warrant to this day. I've never read it.

The next morning, my best friend would work out real early in the morning. I'd get up early too. I call him, I'm like, hey, man, this is. This is my crime right here. Hey man. Cops are after so-and-so. Stop hanging out with him, dude. Like, I don't want you sitting next to him when they arrest him, and then you're in the newspaper or something.

You just got a good job. Stay away from him. Now, you know, that was, I think, if I remember right, early spring. It's the last thing I ever thought about that case. as far as what I actually did. Now, I would say this about my friend. You know, he made me a better father. He's a great son to his parents, made me a better son.

He's one of those guys who was there to help his parents move and just good kid to his family, very family-oriented. So I loved him. And my, during this time, right before that call, my dad had a stroke and essentially in, had a slow death for eight months, in and out of assisted living and hospitals. And that kid, man, would, and what, I don't know why, I never wanted my dad to eat alone in these places. he's a sister leading that kid and his brother he would go eat breakfast with my dad at like six in the morning

just I didn't even know they went because they knew you know and I love this kid that's my friend and so long the way months go by and every once in a while

he would say hey what's going on with so-and-so's cases I didn't know I literally lied to him and I'd be like man everybody's rolling on other stay off the phone do not associate with those guys I just lied to him keep them way and it was June July 2019 I'm working in my chambers hey Ryan cops are here they need to talk to you I thought they was gonna

check in like security everything going okay like yeah come on in sit down guys what's up hey hey Do you know so-and-so? That's my friend. Like, yeah. And I'm like, oh, man, what do you do? You know? And, like, did you tell him about a warrant against the target?

I'm like, I didn't think anything of this. Ian, I'm like, yeah. Yeah, I told him. Tell him stay away from that guy. Friend doesn't need to be with him. My friend's a good guy, guys. He's like, he, you know, I spent a lot of time with this guy. He ain't involved with whatever's going on.

I can trust you that or I can tell you that he again I'm thinking it's him and there and then they just say one I think it was an FBI agent and then a local officer and he said well your friend informed the target that we were going to arrest him with the information you gave him and the target prepared for our when we went in and he cleaned everything up and the first thing they said was do you understand our law enforcement could have got hurt and then it clicked and I'm like oh my god guys like no I never even thought about that scenario um and you know admitted everything I did and I'm not I do want to say this. There's people out there that treated their criminal case differently. You and I treated very differently, your case and my case. There's no right or wrong.

It's right or wrong for you as a person. What was right for me was, I'm an open book. Here's what I did. Bring it on. What do you guys want to do? I need this over with because I got a family. And I'm not leaving them in debt. Like, you know, fair or not fair, I just want the finish line.

But that's just the way I That when it clicked with me It was like Do I go into Criminal Defendant mode that I've been advising people to do You know shut up Invoke your fifth And that's not

It's probably right in 95% of the cases But I don't know what it was It was just like Zone it I didn't I just said No, like I told him to stay away. I'm sorry.

I didn't even think about this maybe endangering law enforcement. Best man in my wedding is a cop in that force. You know, and I just told him exactly what I just told you. Wait, why did so much time pass? Like you passed on, you declined to sign the warrants. Shouldn't they have went to another judge that night? They sign it and then the arrest is made within, you know, 24, 48 hours top. So here's what it, unlike maybe your case, I never got the discovery on my case.

That was one of the deals they said, we're not giving you discovery or we're not giving you this plea agreement. So what I believe happened is that this warrant was to track his car. So they were building the case over and over and over. and I believe he was actually going through a grand jury indictment not they weren't just going to do a affidavit of arrest that's what I believe was going on all these months and was it a federal case or no it was the local case in my backyard you know so did this guy flip on you then so what happened then he gets arrest they had enough on him still arrest him obviously because it was an investigation and he was a much bigger dealer than I ever knew about.

Connections down south, the whole thing. He gets arrested and he does what most many, some criminal defendants do. How did you, they thought they had a dirty cop. Because this guy was, this target was like a philanthropist. He was in, he was a, you know, friends with the mayor. He was all over the town. And give me a deal and I'll tell you how I found out. So he says, so and so, my friend told me you guys were coming after me.

We're real close. And he got that information from a local judge. Here's how, here's the judge's name. And they probably think they have a corrupt dirty judge. It's exactly the next step. You get it. They probably opened up all your cases, reviewed everything. They're like, I don't think they really need.

knew what to do at first. And so I'm still, you know, I leave that meeting with them. Call my, God bless this is the guy I work with now for attorney Greg Gold. I call him when they leave. And I just tell him what happened. Again, I don't know why, Ian, it didn't click with me that I was in trouble. I told him what just happened. And he's like, hey, you're in trouble.

you need a lawyer and then I'm thinking I'm like godly yeah and this is the same day I'm kind of in a panic well they came in the morning

and they had arrested or I don't arrested but the FBI at the exact same time they were talking to me they had my friend is what I believe and you know those so there's something

he's talking I'm talking you know they coordinated this and I and I'm like you know God bless Greg man he's still my best friends today text text me right when I walked in here

and he's like you need a lawyer you're in trouble and I'm like Craig you know Greg I've never even seen cocaine or like I am not involved with this stuff like that's not me

he's like I don't know He's like, how can I be in trouble? And, I mean, I was so frantic that day. Like, I had my judge computer that they assigned to you, your laptop. I walked to a district minister. I said, I want you to take my computer right now because I never want to get accused of deleting something, changing a case, reading something that I shouldn't be. Take it. Like, that's how paranoid I was.

Again, I didn't know. You know. And they come back after. that the FBI. How long? The same day. And they said, you're in trouble. You're under investigation for obstruction to justice. We don't know if you're going to get charged.

You know, this may be nothing. And again, I'm going back to your question. In my mind, all this was is, is this judge involved, their thinking is he involved with this drug ring? You know, so that's where my mind goes how do I show these people I am always my whole life the specific person kept an arm's distance just enough that I didn't disrespect him I liked him growing up you know but I wasn't he was a daytime friend um and you know and then that's when life took a you turn go home that night and

I had no idea what was going on. And I'm not just saying this scene, and I'm not knocking anybody. At that point when I went home, I knew what I did was wrong. I should not have told my friend. I shouldn't have told him. Come to find out, I say he's my best friend, I talk to him every day. He was buying drugs from the target.

I did not know that. And I will go to my grave. I did not know that. My best friend Greg hooks me up with the lawyer. You know, I'm so blessed and lucky in life. Like, one of the biggest firms in Colorado, ex-U.S. attorney, the whole resume. He was second chair.

First chair was our retired Supreme Court justice, chief justice. He calls me. He says, I got worried what's going on. You know, I'm going to help you. I said, no, like, I am not putting anything on a credit card. If I have to do this on my own, I'm doing it on my own,

because my family will not be in debt over this. Like, I'm thinking I'm going to go working a nine to five, making $25, $30,000 a year. Like, I'm not putting my family in debt. It's like, nope, we're doing it for free. So, and this is, you know this. Sometimes what gets put in the newspaper on social media, is not what happened.

And one of the things, I knew what I was did wrong. I called the discipline committee and told them what I did the second day. And I don't know why it gets out there that somebody else or another judge report of me. I did that. Like I have the email.

I have the paperwork I filled out. The next day. again violated everything I've ever told a criminal defendant shut up don't talk to him I wrote it under oath what I did and sent it to him the next day and I go to our district administrator and I'm like I'm going to resign just like don't resign just see how this just wait just we don't know anything I said no those cops will never trust me again and I respect that like What am I going to do up here? Like I, and I resigned. Oh, so you didn't get kicked off, you resigned? I resigned. And again, and I shouldn't care, but the newspapers and stuff is like, other judges got me.

Like, no, I, I resigned, you know? In fact, one of the sentencing letters from the other side, and my sentence was, you know, He quote unquote did what did the right thing and resigned, like set in a negative tone. Like, that's the truth. Like, I, I knew what I did would violate trust with important people that I needed to work with for the rest of my career. And I, I resigned. When did they decide to charge you how long after? Months later.

And I kind of did what you did. mindset is they think I'm part of this. I need to prove I am not part of this group. They want my cell phone. There you go. I don't delete text in three years since I got that phone. Here you go. Handed my phone over to the FBI,

gave them the password. Every text, every email, everything. Here you go. And so I'm thinking, and this will prove to them I'm not part of this, right? Months go by. They're still looking. They're still thinking about indicted.

They don't know if they're going to indict you. Talk about the worst time, right? When you'd have no idea what's going on, what's going to happen to you, whether you'd already been indicted, but that time lag is, and maybe some people say you asked for it, do the crime, do the time.

I respect that thought. But it doesn't, change what you're going through. I'm sitting there gardening at my house looking over my shoulder. They're going to pull up. Am I going? Is there a grand jury out right now?

Like, I was so scared to get arrested in front of my kids. So scared. Months are going by. Now we're in COVID and, you know, I don't job. I can't.

Luckily, some lawyers say, come work, man. It's like kind of put me to work, but I was worth us, you know? Like, you're not eating or sleeping. It's terrible, Ian? Like, terrible. And, you know, are they in a grand jury right now?

I'm researching, how do they arrest people? I just kept calling my lawyer, and I'm like, I will turn myself in. I don't care. Whatever decision they want, I will do it. So, lawyer calls, they want an interview with you. and I said, look, of course I'll talk. I've given me my phone, but I am not like some guy who's going to tell every secret I know on every kid I grew up with, you know, for some of your audience, you know, a snitch or whatever, you know.

First off, I don't know that much. I know rumors, just like from the Target. I don't know that much. I'm not, but now I had read, you know, about paperwork and stuff if I do go to prison. Like, I am not doing it. Like, no, they believe they're pretty sure you're not part of this. You know, you don't have that much information and stuff. But they still want to make sure you're not part of it.

It's like, all right, let's talk. Everybody think about the stupid stuff you put in your phone. If the FBI ever got a hold of any normal human, especially guys, phone how ridiculous the dumb stuff we tell each other it's

I sit down so I was like all right I'm ready to go do the proffer and talk with the FBI it is packed U.S. prosecutor

from the Washington D.C. flies in that does the public corruption stuff I mean I'm like oh God here we go

boom put up a text they asked me so how was the drugs and gambling in Atlantic City I'm like what

I was like I never been to Atlantic City like oh really here's a text from so and so it says can't wait to do drugs and gamble in Atlantic City guys and first off it comes from a person who is straighter than I am like as far as

anything illegal or anything illegal or anything illegal or anything anything and I'm like here we go all right guys I don't know how to say this because the way I'm going to tell you is so cheesy and what everybody else says you got to look at it in context this is a joke and text after text after text of just dumb guys like right I come home my lifestyle on the bench was I come home. I'm not going to the bar and BSing and talking shop and gossiping. I turn on the Rockies game, sit there and text my buddies.

And we're just cracking jokes, knocking people. And it just unfolds from there. And, you know, I'm like, this isn't about me being part of drugs. This is about me, like, doing things I shouldn't have saying how, you know, oh, so-and-so was in my courtroom today. man or you know like one of them I had a dad in front of me and this is wrong a hundred percent wrong what I did but like for example I my buddies text me they're golfing on a Saturday like hey they send me a picture of them golfing you know bragging

that I'm working they're having fun right it's jokes and I was like yeah guys and I take a picture of my desk like look at me you know talking shit crap with the guys guys, well, there's litigants names. If you zoom in on the photo, on my computer screen. Now, you could go online and get it publicly, but it came from me. So stuff like that starts coming out, you know. And I'm just like, oh, my gosh. So other ethical violations through my buddy texts start coming out.

And it just goes on and on. nothing about me being part of this drug ring, right? Yeah, this is how bad it was, Ian. Again, we grew up at the Target. I sent my buddy, we were getting ready to do a, me and my buddies doing a chichoroni fry, right? We do this a couple times a year, get a bunch of pork skin and hang out on a Sunday

and fried chichorones. And they were like packaged meat everywhere on my buddy's table. And I send a text. I'll bet that's what so-and-so's kitchen looks like, because it looked like, you know, drug package, and it was the target I put in there. Oh, so you don't know anything?

I'm like, guys, like, I don't. If I haven't earned the fact that I would tell you guys everything by giving you my phone, I don't know what's going to earn it, but I don't know anything, like stuff like that. And I'm just like, golly. So I leave that proffer and get a call a couple weeks later and said they're going to indict you. And it's like, all right.

Get it over with. Do they let you self-surrender? Yeah. So, I mean, I did, like, literally, I had it so organized going back to the fear of anything happening in front of my kids. That was, that was it. So they said, wave indictment, accept this plea. Like, everything was done beforehand. And it's like, I don't, I need to get sentenced.

I need this over with. and I need to start building a life that one day, you know, those kids and my mom and my wife, they can be proud of me. I got to start. It's all I cared about, you know, was getting to the finish line, getting to where we are now. It's all I cared about. I didn't care what they put in the plea agreement. I didn't care. I think I made three edits to the plea agreement.

right wrong and different, I don't know. That's where my jacked up mental state was, man. It was dark time, man, like, dark. What happened to your friend? Did you ever have closure with him? I don't know. You know, he took a deal. He got indicted for obstruction, too.

He got, I don't know, 60, 90 days. They charged him with obstruction, too? Wow. I just feel like this is a very far-reaching case. It just seems silly I don't know man I you know That's an easy

Yeah I respect that person But Let me stop there and put it this way This is at the newspapers If you're sentencing me We can't have people do what I did as the judges And we can't let this guy off easy

You know if it got out that I didn't get indicted I can imagine, I put some people in some bad spots, right? I put a black cloud. Whatever fact, right, wrong, and different. There's no way that people's society are going to know the real facts of everything. And I'm not saying they make an example out of me. That's a bad way to put it. But I respect that they had to do something to me.

I can, you know, I can respect that. You would have thought, though, that, like, resigning the loss of the career. would have been enough and I and I and I and I stipulated to a disbarment too gave my law license yeah I feel like even something like that could have been you know negotiated or I try not to go there you know what I mean yeah you know it happened um I live a blessed life now picking my kids up from school and I haven't missed a practice in a game that I missed all the time when I was a judge working crazy hours my wife's happier now now that I'm home.

Or, I just try to stay there, man. Yeah, you also don't know what it's prevented you from, too. Like, you never know, maybe you could have been a trial judge for like a, you know, a cartel member that would have, you know, attacked you or something. Absolutely.

You just don't know how the universe works like that. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. None of us do, you know. So what was the final charge you pled out to? So we worked the deal that was obstruction. And, you know, that, for people that have been through the system listening,

you know, there's an element of that, that of the crime that it, the mental state of, that I had to intend to obstruct this case. I did not know my friend, like that would have been an interesting trial. And in fact, I did a personal memo on that element to my lawyers.

Their associate did a memo. And both of us came to the conclusion that the likelihood of them proving that was pretty low. But you know how it is. Anybody in the feds right now, their conviction rate is at trial is, what, 85? It's like 90%, you know? Oh, I went to trial.

Yeah, exactly. It's hard. I mean, they just overcharge you, and then there's just so many, they've got so many people working for them. Yep. And, you know, but long story short, I never went there.

Like, I was like, man do I go to trial and they weren't going to do the trial for free and I respect that of course they couldn't that's a big deal you know trial was going to cost me you know 40 50,000 dollars I was not willing to pay and and Ian I'm not kidding and this is no knock to anybody this is me everybody's different I just watch my dad die for eight months a few years before that and you see this progression towards the end of life of having to look yourself in the mirror. And for me to look at myself in the mirror, it was, admit what you did and just accept whatever this judge,

this prosecutor thinks is justice. Even if it's right, wrong, could be perfect. So I'm like, here's what I did. You chose to indict me. let's get this sentencing rock and roll and i i will i'll do with it you know that was just me like and i'm not i'm not knocking anybody that treats their case any specific way but that was me and i needed to get it over with man i was in a dark dark spot ian and anybody that goes through a traumatic event even if you caused it it's still trauma right fight fight fight for

my response is solutions and a finish line. And that was the quickest way to a finish line. And I think the right thing to do for my personality and building a future that my kid, kids, my mom, my friends can say, Ryan's a loyal guy. He's true to himself. I'm proud to be his friend.

I'm proud he's my dad. How much time do they sentence you to? Year and a day. And after sentencing, how long did you have until you self-surrendered? Well, even before sentencing, we're set. Get a one-sentence memo from the judge. Due to scheduling conflict, we're continuing the sentencing. So there goes another, and they continued it for like six months.

And six months, it doesn't sound like a lot of time until you're in the darkest place of your life. You know? And you have to look at your kids every day. So I get sentenced and self-surrender. I had done every piece of research you could about the federal prison system. I've never worked in fed cases, right? And there's a law that you're supposed to be sentenced within a certain geographic region of your support. We had two, we had a low in a camp in Colorado.

So I'm, you know, I'm just telling my lawyers, and I did in my sentencing, verbalize, you know, police, you know, I got a full courtroom of people that love me and I love and I need them and I need my kids. My wife and my mom, my sister. And I get a letter like a month later. It says you're reporting like another two months later in Yankton, South Dakota. Dakota in the middle of just as COVID was reopening. But so I got to go to Yankton, South Dakota from Colorado. And my buddy, we said goodbye to my wife and my kids. And my buddy packed me up and he drove me. Stopped and fished along the way out I had 80. But it was a God blessing that I went there.

It's not, I don't know how you felt. It was an easy seeing people in pretty. I would rather people not come seeing. You know, it's hard. You know, it's COVID with glass in front of us and stuff. It wasn't like the typical camp stuff. You know, the first, you know, the first phone call sitting in front of all these guys,

trying to figure this place out, you know, and I know it's going to cry. When I heard the voice, I'm like, I can't talk and I hung up. It was easier not to talk to people. So I think that was a blessing that I went out to Yankton, to where people couldn't come see me. Why do people get a year and a day in prison?

Good question. Because in the feds, as long as you didn't commit a certain type of crime, most of it, the biggest category, you have a firearm, is you get good time. You get stuff knocked off your sentence. but you don't get good time for any sentence less than a year, a year or less.

So you'll see judges, so they did me a good one and gave me the year and a day so I get that good time. How much time did you expect to do based on all your research and everything going into it? Nine months.

I expected to do about 80%, and that was with halfway house or without? That was without. without in camp expected to do eight about nine months now remember this time period so this is what 2020 this is right when the Trump administration signed the first step act for those out there there family in there it is a system that was designed is designed that if you do certain things mainly classes and have a job, you earn times off your sentence.

Again, only for certain crimes, which I qualified for. Ian, you remember those days. Like, the rollout of things like that in the federal prison system is terrible. And you're messing with guys' freedom. So you got guys in. in there that are getting their sentencing paperwork from the case manager that shows first step

credits X days you get guys in there first step credit zero days now imagine going back to your prison days how much chaos that creates in there you know people are mad happy um and this was rolling out the implementation of the first step back was terrible um we didn't know if I get caught with an extra pair of shorts on my locker, is that kill all my credits? Your case managers didn't know. Why am I getting credits? This guy's not. Nobody.

It was chaos. And, but what I did think was, if it's rolled out, I know what you get credit for. Jobs and work. Or I'm sorry, work and classes. I took every class I could. Fast forward, I earned 30 days off. The guy next to me or nothing and was a much, a crime just like a very minor crime.

I think he's a tax guy. Got zero. And... Crack a Cayman Jack Margarita. And taste your escape. It's America's number one for a reason. Camin Jack is a premium malt beverage with flavors. Please drink responsibly.

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Book now at Viji Airways.com or contact your local travel agent. Conditions apply. So ended up serving, I think, what was it, eight, nine months out of everything. And what's interesting during that time period, all the short timers like yourself, they were just putting on ankle monitors. It's almost like, why didn't the judge just sentence you to home confinement? Yeah. Because at that time period, anyone that was in a camp,

then the judges most knew of what was going on, you know? Yep. It's ankle monitor. So were you in when COVID? No, I got out in 2019. Okay. I was there when end of 2018, he passed the first step act. Yeah.

But it didn't affect me at all. Gotcha. And back before this first step act, the programs were for nothing. I was planning on doing programs. It was like, what's the incentive? This is stupid. Yep. The intent of the program's great, I think, you know.

Yeah. Well, before. Yeah. Before the first step back. Gotcha. Yeah. There was no benefit of doing it. Yeah.

There's no, their good time policy was not existent. It was just like your standard 85%, but there was no additional. There was no incentive for anything else. So this was going on right. Were you there when, I can't remember the program, but they were like going back to ankle monitors, they were sending people home left and right if you had a certain body mass index. No, that wasn't with their. So we, I wasn't at this time, right?

So they're sending people home that are overweight to ankle monitors. So really I thought at sentencing, I was like, I'll, probably get ankle mark because they don't want you know COVID's going this is after the lockdown was lifted so that was the tail end of course but they weren't sending a lot of people away so I'll probably like you said like I you know I'm obviously not a flight risk I'm not violent um I thought I'd probably get ankle monitor um but again you know like again I would resolve my mind to just whatever they're going to do they're going to do and I'm going to put my head up and I'm going to go right I'm going to go through this wall I'm going to do it right you know um

How did the inmates respond to finding out you're a judge? I mean, granted, it's a camp and there's not, like, gang members, but there are some drug dealers. There are people. Right? You get those guys. People are like, I think if you Google Yankton, it was, like, years and years ago. I mean, it's the U.S.'s most cushiest prison.

Like, it's still prison, guys. Like, you get guys that have been down for 20 years that just work themselves down, right? But here's what I did. And I don't like telling people I did time because I think it's a disrespect or it's a knock to guys that have done real time. Like those guys that have worked themselves down, that's a whole different world when you're going low, medium highs. There's a whole different world. So I know I did camp. Like I, you know, I'm no tough guy or nothing, right?

But here's what I did. again, immersed myself into the federal prison sentence. Before I went, I looked up statistics of like deaths, murders, serious assaults. And here's what I came to my mind. I'm not going to get killed in there. Could I get beat up? Yeah. I can live with that.

I can get killed. So, Ian, I went in with that mindset. I got ass when I got there. Do you want to go to PC? Nope. And I just owned what I did. I got lucky. Somebody snout.

Cell phones are right. Somebody sneaks in a cell phone. They look me up. But thank God. Instead of society, they read the article. They actually read what I did. And they were cool with me. They were cool about it.

I guess in a way, your crime benefits the criminal. so they're happy with you. That's like with corrupt cops, you know, as long as it doesn't go against the criminal. Yeah. Like if you weren't like, you know, over sentencing or doing something crazy to hurt them. Right.

You were in a way one of them. Yep. Yep. So they, you know, I, but there's so much about prison that, ironically enough, I wish society would adopt. Like, like, I don't know if you feel this way. Like, I'm not dumb. You go in there and you shut up.

Just feel it out, right? Don't be disrespectful. Be clean. Keep your stuff clean. Don't do anything to draw attention. So I was ready. But that's just like going into a new job. Don't go in there and start causing ruckus.

And, you know, so I went in and I did it the right way. You know, I shut up. You know, it was quiet. And then the step, you know, the process, you know, people start, okay, this guy's all right, man. They looked me up. all right and you get accepted a little bit and but then the thing comes any human you put in locked in confinement or confinement but you don't have freedom but then you get to the point where um you get

comfortable and i think some people get a little trouble there right once you get comfortable you know man and then you know you're willing to join a conversation you know and you know you start opening up, but if you wait, you do it like that, people know, this guy's, you know, he's no, he's not a problem. And then the next step happens to where human instincts take over, you need to live. These guys are playing poker. These guys are eating good food.

And again, I think people get in trouble in there. Would you get to that stage, right? Yeah, you know, I play cards. I, you know, I still got friends. in there, so I'm not going to, you know. So I lived. And I think some people just don't have, some inmates don't have really good boundaries at that point. You know, I think I did it right, you know.

But going back to what you said, I lived with the, I came to the conclusion that I'm not going to get killed. I was scared because I'm half Japanese, half white, I look Mexican. I know everything's race-based But what shocked me about that whole deal About the whole race and car thing Is you forget These cars don't want numbers in there So they are willing to accept you

You know Immediately get approached in there You know by a certain car That wasn't my race but would I look And you know I looked the guy right in the eye and I said, Here, I'm going to do my own time, but you have nothing to worry about me.

I don't see nothing. I don't hear nothing. Because I'm married to a Hispanic, and I grew up in a Mexican community, so, you know, and they were pretty cool about that. You know, they knew I was staying back and, you know, not to.

but here's where I got lucky again lucky blessed in my life is as you know in yankton right there's the car but the secondary car really is where you're from you know and i'm colorado you know i don't know like in oxford did they have like a jersey car or a the camp was too small for that i know yankton's a bigger camp but we only had like 100 inmates got to six inmates but at fort dicks when i was at the low there's 2,500 people that was car-oriented. Yeah, so this kind of secondary car is where you're from. I mean nobody for Colorado except, like, the man in one of the races that I look,

he's from 10 miles from where I live. And him and I were cool. We hit it off, talked to him to this day. Great guy. He ran it clean there. Nobody did anything they weren't supposed to do if something had to happen, it happened the right way. He ran a safe place if you didn't step out of line.

And so I got lucky. I got real lucky. Was prison what you expected it to be based on all your research and what you just knew about prison being a regular person in society? You know what? I know there's an entertainment factor about prison and stories about, you know, here's the one part that I didn't expect, is once you get to that comfort level

of having to live a little bit, having to have a real cup of coffee, whether it's against the rules or not, having to have hot sauce on your food, so we can take condiments, right, to our cafeteria, once you get to that stage of just minor things, and I know these guards have to run it, like you give inmates an inch,

they're going to take them while, I know it. So I'm not saying what they do, was wrong. But you know what really shocked me in was how petty it can get in there between the guards to the inmates in the sense of if they don't like you and they may have good reason not to like you.

You're the one you're going to get written up for having an extra pair of socks. Like the pettiness uh you know I lived across an old man who ended up getting can't answer in prison and he gets out died shortly after. Old man, pops, right? This old man, you know, the light goes red

and you gotta go, an unscheduled count. He's in the bathroom and he doesn't see the light. It's in the bathroom. Old man, right? He comes walking out, pops, get you, get you bunk, pops, get in here, they write him up for that. That was, I was, it was so hard for me to live, seeing people being unfairly treat,

some of them deserved everything they got from them guards that man that bothered me and think of the time period for steps rolling out rolling out every write-up your credits are gone so I don't know how it is now but my assumption is if some of those guards don't like you they can kill your freedom for petty things and you know what also shocked me was the maybe some don't care maybe they do I don't know

and this is not an october they got a tough job those guards got a tough job there were a couple great guards man that you know I could have I could see myself

it'll never happen but I can see myself having a beer with them or some that were terrible that I would not be in the same room with them for fear that I

do something dumb and fight just bad guys like same with inmates good and bad right and you know

but like the pettiness that you would see that shocked me some of the unfair like they don't understand like the day I came in so I reported at noon

they did a complete tear down of where I was living my pod and what is and then I come in that afternoon what does that tell those other inmates? Who's this guy? Why'd they tear us down?

That put me in kind of a bad spot. Another thing, I'm sitting there in a parenting classroom, right? And I'm not talking. You know, I'm a former family law judge. These guys are, you know, some of them don't, haven't seen their kids in 10, 20 years. And, you know, and the professor who was a guard, I was like, you never talk.

I want you to answer this question. I'm just like, and it put me in a real bad spot. So I didn't answer this question. I said, you know what? My observation is I feel real bad for a lot of guys in here whose kids are being influenced outside of here to hate their dad. And so I tried to make the best out of it, you know.

But I'm a guy who's got a great wife, stable family, like everything that I'm sure some of these guys wish they had and may have burnt bridges, you know. I put me in a bad spot. You know, that, like, guys, guards, stop. Like, you know, you don't understand. Or maybe you do understand, but don't put me in this spot, man. You know?

Like, there's a lot of things that could get you in trouble, you know, in there. What were some inmate codes that you had to follow? Like, inmates make rules, you know, that you had to learn, follow, and maybe we're even surprised about. It's a great question. If there's one thing, this is. so dumb to probably many, many, many people out there. First off, the regular stuff's normal.

Stay clean, man. Like, you know, don't draw attention. Let's get past that. Ian, I never understood. And we do it as a joke, or I used to. And I'm scared if this ever happens to me. Another man calling another man the B word. And I know we can cuss on here,

but my kids might say this. that is you better fight if somebody says that and that is the one thing that to this day when i hear my friends somebody in society call somebody else what here we go like you you and it sounds dumb but i'm wired that way in the sense of there are boundaries in this world and if you consciously cross that boundary we all need to there's a reason you cross up boundary i'm scared i ain't if somebody ever says that to me you know i see i hear my buddies call each other that and it bothers me that's the one thing that's stuck with me you know i don't know yeah i had a similar experience because i we were playing cards i was like oh you're such a you know bleep or suck my bleep and

And that's how we were talking high school, and around your friends. Yeah. And these dudes don't play around with that. No. And that's where they're getting comfortable and having to live a little. When you get to that point in prison,

you better be sure that it's innocence, you know. We didn't grow up in that environment, you know? And I know there's a certain sect in the streets that if you call another man that it's on. Now I know that. I didn't know that, you know? And because I mistakenly said that. And I was lucky enough that this was pretty deep into my staying.

These guys, I was friends. And it was to my bunky. And it was a joke. We were joking around. He just stood right. I was on top bunk. He stood right up, looking me right in the face. And he's like, never say that word again in here.

And then one of the toughest, Mexicans was across and he just gets out of his bed and he comes walking and he looks right at me he's like you ever say that to me I'm going to slap you and I was like and it just hit me you know and I'm like oh my god here we go and then you're in that stage of well do I prove I'm tough

or do I apologize and look like a weekly it's a tough spot to be in you got to play it right you know but that's that sticks with me to this day I don't like hearing that What was your favorite commissary food? Oh, man. Look, I grew up. I love food.

Like, me and my wife have probably consumed 8,000 calories each before noon this whole trip in New York City. This is the greatest food city in the world. I love food growing up. And you're in great shape for... I don't know about that, man. You know, I grew up eating anything and everything from my Japanese grandma to the crazy stuff she made. did my Mexican buddies, and I love food. So for me, I knew that was never going to be a problem.

I miss, you know what I meant? Oh, I would say, well, I'd say this. I was conscious about my commissary. I didn't want to come off going in, knowing, studying and stuff, as somebody who had money. Yeah, I have money for people in there. You know, I'm not wealthy out here. I have money for people in there. I have resources.

So I would tell my wife, don't send me that much. Don't, you know, I'm not going to buy a lot of cons. So I came in, like, I wasn't going to do a lot of the commissary stuff, you know. And I went in going to be healthy. So, but you know what I miss? And this is, I don't know why is, you got to have a hustle, right? So here was my, again, I didn't want to come off as well. So here was my hustle.

For Sunday football, I would make burritos. And I would take those dehydrated beans, and I'd take the meat log, right, dice it up, and then crunch up pork grinds, roll it up into the tortilla and then iron it, right? And crisp it up, like the McDonald or the Taco Bell grill burrito, right? Those were so good, man. I miss those burritos, and I love Mexican food, but for some reason those hit. I miss those. There's something about prison food that is just like I had rom-a-a-a-a-a-a-old. noodle's the other night.

And just like, it's just, I don't know, it just, it hits, you know? Yes, it works. It's good. It is, especially when you're in there, you know? It really is. And people are fascinated with the prison food thing. Yeah, I'll bet that's in it. That's a good, because I mean, it's.

You think about it like you're a normal person, especially like a judge or something that goes to prison, and then there you are eating, you know that. It's fine, man. You know what was I miss for some reason was in the breakfast days. Now, out here I don't. eat it but you know every once in a while you would get uh those raisin band clusters every once in a while and the word would get back hey man we got the clusters we got the clusters man that tasted so good fried fish Fridays I missed that it depended on the fish though yeah true because it was so hit hit or miss the patties I when I was at the camp they had gotten a bunch of the expired McRibs

oh really so we were eating McRibbs like they'd put it as like a side like as a if it was like a sausage patty, they were just pass them out. Right. And so we were eating that. They would get a lot of food. Did you have, here's another thing I miss.

You get hungry, you know, especially when you're trying not to come off and you're working out a lot. Like, I got hungry, like physically hungry. And the hamburgers are terrible, right? Whatever, I eat them.

But our inmates, our cooks would make vegetable patties that look like hamburger patties. They would just mash up beans and whatever left over vegetables. And they were twice the size of the, regular hamburger patty, those were good.

And so I leave and I come out and I'm like, I'm going to try this in credit burger or whatever this stuff. Nothing compared to it. You know, all my meat eating buddies, if they could try that veggie burger in prison, that was good. When you got out of prison, were a lot of your friends and even family curious about your stay in prison? Yeah, of course, right?

And so should everybody. It listens to this. your podcast does a great job of giving an insight. But I don't know about you. Like, I don't know if I really like talking about it. Like, because I, you know, I don't like talking about the fights I saw and the politics, which there isn't a ton right. You know, he's sit with the right people and stuff. But it's like, man, talk to the guys that were in the high.

Talk to those guys. I feel like, you know, if there's any of my, and I'll call them my friends that did real time that are either still there or now out and hear me sitting here trying to talk about, you know, prison stories, like, come on, that's disrespect to that. I don't know what respect is the right word, but, you know, I did it the right way, you know, and I, you know, I was willing to. You know, if I got tested, I was going to live with the physical consequences. You know, I can say all that. Yeah, you come out. But, you know, I have a buddy that we grew up with and we never been in trouble. It's like, well, tell me about this.

I'm like, man, here, call up this guy. He was down for 17 and he's out now. You call him if you want to hear stories. You know, I want to talk to you about a couple of things. The first thing I would tell people about prison that I want to preach, you have a platform. I want to tell people this is that if you've ever been in that prison or facing that and you have kids or friends, family, this is my story as my kids, here's something you can take from it. You will never in your life ever have a harder conversation than telling your kids and wife, mom, that you're going away. Never.

So when you want to make that call at work, you've been pushing off or send that email, or you need to call your mom or your dad and tell them something hard or your friends, pick up the dang call, send the email. It is not hard. I preach out to these lawyers that I work with every day. Like, oh, God, I've got to make that call.

Dude, I told my kids I was going to prison. Call. It ain't hard. So that, I want that. I don't know if that's a big life lesson or not, but when you experience, like, and you own it, and you're like, I didn't dance around it, and my kids were young.

He's like, all right, wife, tonight's the night, we're telling. You know, race, sit down, madden, sit down. Dad made a mistake. He's going to leave for a while. I don't know how long, but probably a year. And he's going to go fix what he did wrong. And you do that, man. Nothing's harder than that in life.

Nothing. That's what I want to tell people. You know, if you want to talk prison and stuff, which I would have too, to somebody who's been in, I also like talking about, like, the things that we touched on about, there's really the system at my camp, it's not reflecting on anywhere else where I was, it's ran good. You stay clean. Like stuff that you don't, you don't,

bother other people. You don't, you know, you're not, uh, drawn attention to other people's stuff, you know, you live respectable, you know, hold indoors, please, thank you. You know, you show respect in there because there's consequences if you don't. But just, why do you have to go to prison for the first time in your 40s to be like, man, this is a controlled? and everybody's doing their part. You pick up trash if you see it.

You know, that guy mowed that lawn, pick those weeds and, you know, so that you can live somewhat of a decent lifestyle in there. And you think them, you know. You don't run across the flowers that this inmate, you know, just worked on. You respect it. You know, I don't, I wish some of those aspects could be brought into society.

To be real. You know, there's a part of it, you know, TV rooms ran good, you know? I think the biggest thing is, like, you know, you get these Karens that are flipping out in, like, the Starbucks line or something, that would never fly in prison. Oh, geez. You see these people get worked up, yelling at the servers, and it's just crazy. That would never happen in prison. Right. You would get shaked.

You wait in line, right? And you don't complain about the line or the guy that's taken forever to get the fries done. You don't cut the line. No, we all have a place. We all have a role. And, you know. That just bothers me at these places where people are just like mistreating the waiter or the waitress wrong or the cashier. And, yeah, I just, yeah, mistreating service industry people is such a bad look.

I was actually reading an article too. They were talking about how this new generation that works in like the cashiers and stuff are, they don't really say hi or greet you. And that's frustrating the older generation. because it's just like different. But that's also like prison too because no one's acknowledging you in the line unless it's like your boy that lives in your unit or something.

Yep, yep. So it's just interesting how that works too. It had a great, oh man, I knew I made it. I knew I was okay at this point. So finally getting the basketball league and there was this Mexican guy, right? Pisa who was in there. He had won the three-point contest for so many years, right? And I beat him in the three-point contest.

and, you know, like the wreck, if you win something, you get some shabang or you get some so big deal, right? And so we're coming back and we get back to the unit. And one of the guys in my paws, like, hey, would you win? You're going to sell what you won from the three-point contest? And one of the PISA stands up, he goes, no, you know what he got? Was an ass beating from the Paisas and starts laughing, you know? So then every time I go through the line, as soon as I get my trade,

It was shooters on the line, shooters on the line. And then the Pisces would joke around. I'm like, okay. That's funny. Yeah, it's cool. How do you think your dad would have reacted to you going to prison if he was still alive when that happened? I don't know, Ian. I'll struggle with this until I die.

And my dad did grow up on the streets, so that's part of it. And I think he would be proud of the loyalty that I'm. I have that got instilled in me that I will die with and I'll continue to be a loyal friend although I've learned so much about myself we can talk about on why I did what I did and what I'll do not to put myself in those positions because I know who I am now for real but he told me once that he can do a lot of things wrong But don't you ever bring disrespect to our last name? I don't know if I did, Ian, I think I did.

My son's the last, if he doesn't have kids, he's the last comada in our family. I wasn't raised Japanese, but there's some certain things that get passed along, and it's one of them. Man, I don't know. I just, I have a little bit of life left to try to come to closure with that. But I think I got to do it in a way that can bring back some honor to our name. And handling it like this and accepting consequences, right, wrong, fair. And teaching my kids that is what I know what to do.

And that's, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what he. Take it from United Band Lines. Moving yourself sounds simple until it isn't. The packing, the lifting, the truck rental, the stairs, the mess. And suddenly do it yourself feels like. Like, do everything yourself.

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A lot. You know? What does your life look like now? I'm so lucky. When I went away, my wife held it down I can go away for long I get that man

I get that Hey anything more than a few days away from your family Is a long time You know Dang man I got the best life Ian So lucky

My mom During this When this goes down My sister Moved Like five miles from my house Um Be close to my kids

Get them around places My mom lives With my sister We're right down the street. My mother-in-law lives with us who's the best grandma and person and the coolest lady in the world. My kids are healthy and happy and active. The things that was, you know, Greg Gold, man, he's a lawyer in Denver hires me. I got this amazing gig and we morphed it into the

this like consultant and he's like hey hit up this i'm going to hook you up with this other lawyer darren shanker gregg darren their teams are man if my kid ever got hurt or something they are the best trial lawyers in this country i am not kidding the verdicts that these guys get and the the work they do so i get put in their trial team find this kind of weird role where i can give an attorney level product of good pleading. I can, with some high degree of accuracy, predict, you know, the judge is going to care about this or this is an evidentiary issue we need to prepare for.

And it's working, man. We're knocking it out. We're getting verdicts. We're doing good work. But all that, I'm working from home 80% of the time. I'm taking my kids to school. I was so scared. I was ready to move out of my community

because I was scared in my kids that, you know, like you can't hang out with that race come on because of parents or you can't spend the night with him. We got friends that know exactly what happened and they're cool with it. They let me coach their kids, man. I'm like, shitty. Life is so good.

I was in a bad place. And I, I, you know, I'm not as tough as some of these guys that go through this, you know. I grew up a little tougher than I did. I'm not that tough, man. And I was ready to be gone, you know, during that time frame before I knew I was going to get indicted. And anybody in that spot, man, like, don't. it was the middle of the day hadn't eaten

slept you know I've been working with these kids that were that were ready to be gone in my career and the question you always asked that these risk assessments is do you have a plan

I don't know what the heck that meant when we asked these kids that now I know I had a plan I knew how it was going to do it I knew so my family wouldn't find me would be the first to see me I knew it wouldn't be a citizen to see

It'd be a first responder who was trained a little bit to see that and be able to deal with that trauma I had a plan as a middle of the day and I just told my wife like I'm I'm been the problem solver my whole life I take control solve problems told her I need help I just do that to somebody if you're in that spot yeah well I said okay she didn't know what to do she calls up three four best friends right need you guys guys come over man some still in their work clothes middle of the day you know my boy Kyle my wife they load me out of the car go to the ER man we got help and uh um you know I don't trust that's a moment of weakness that's hard for a man who's been in my spot values solving helping people and getting through it and giving

them so real solutions there was one VA psychologist that I became friends with golfing and we get out of the ER and they said look you know we're going to keep you unless you got a safety plan I said I'm going to call this guy I go to this guy's house is it one of the psychologist that I trusted and he uh sat there like 10 3 11 o'clock at night you know and he hooks me up with a mental health professional Sheila she's got this great non-profit triple t up in northern Colorado and um doesn't charge me a penny i see her to this day i've never got a bill from her um and she understood the way my brain's why that I got to figure out why I did what I did,

and she's got to get me through this time. Because right at a time heels, Ian, like you're in that spot. You don't think you're going to get out of prison one day and live a life I live now. Never saw that. So we found ways to get me by, man. I fished every night with a neighbor, a good friend of mine, Tyler's out there.

We fished every night and got through it. We talked every night, five, six nights a week. And it just time passes and it gets easier. And then there's a little glimpse like, oh, Greg will give me a job when I get out. Oh, it hit the newspapers and so and so still my friend. You know, oh, my kids still want to be around me. Oh, it's not as hard anymore to put my kids to bed. And it goes on.

And then the work comes up. of all right Ryan me and Sheila let's figure out who you are why'd you do this and she just helped me and we kept and every night I think about it think about it and I'm not a big memory guy you know playing sports and stuff I don't remember specific games or stuff but certain parts of my upbringing I remember I remember this my dad told me a story that when he was a young boy every new year all the Japanese families would come together in five points and the men would leave and he thought they were going to the bar or going to go drink or something it would go to the garage and every year every family would save every penny they could and at the beginning of the new year they would all take their savings and give it to one family so this year's Ian's turn all these guys boom you go start a business a restaurant gas station drugstore and next year it's my turn now i go and that story man like always stuck with me and i think that value of community um grew the roots of why i'm so darn

loyal to my friends and family. And I don't think I can change that. And I've accepted that. So now it's how you can keep yourself out of situations that get you in trouble, you know, to where it gets tested. But, you know, so I just tell people out there, man, just don't.

You know, I don't know. I had people around me. I'm sure there are people out there who are in that state of mind who don't. You know, fake friends that aren't going to stand. by them. I don't know what to tell those people. And I, you know, I know what I did. And that's my story and that's real, real solution was telling my wife, I'm ready to be gone. I need help. You know, and now look, God, man, I'm in New York City, my family. I can afford it, you know.

Coaching my kid. I got a game tomorrow night. My kid. You know, look. and my friends are still there you know shoot knowing what the outcome is now would you if you were given the chance to go back in time and still

to share your friend that information that would lead you to prison would you do it all over again um no I'll tell you why is I didn't know he was buying drugs from him I don't knock people like it I'm a live let live guy

you know um but when it comes to my kids spending the night at your house, which they did the weekend before, and you're buying drugs from a man who has connections down south, that's a problem. I didn't know that. And I had a blind spot somewhere on him. I still love him.

And I know one day we're going to have a beer and hug. I know we will. I love his family. But, no, man, you're not loyal to my kids. You know, you and I can hang out and do our stuff, but when you're putting my kids in that environment, you know. But I'm comfortable with what I did,

knowing where my mind was, like what I knew, you know. I should have never been a judge, Ian. It's too loyal to a guy to those people. And it is what it is. It is. It's a truth. You know? That's the community I grew up.

I'm sure you impacted a lot of people on the way, though. I think so. I think because of that, the other side, right? Like, I was a normal guy. And, you know, I, um, with foster kids, I listen to their music. I get it, you know, I, you know, I, I grew up okay, like little class, but I, you know, my buddy, six doors down, struggles. I get you. I get you and, you know, you know, what do you, you know, I'll meet you at the taco shop and eat menudo with you on Sundays, you know, like I get you.

So I think that that was why it was pretty successful at that part of my career, yeah. Yeah, you know. Well, Ryan, I appreciate you coming on the show today, man. Man, it's a blessing. Yeah, being just so open and honest and vulnerable, I think the audience is really going to really enjoy this episode. Yeah, you got a good, you got a good thing going on, Ian. And, you know, you were the one program on those late night scroll in the dark holes of the internet where I'm like, this is different. This is a little more real.

And you got a good thing going, man. I wish you nothing but the best. I'm giving people like us a little bit of therapy to be able to reach an audience and be somewhere to talk about something that I never thought I would want to share with a lot of people. So I appreciate you, man. I appreciate you, man. Good stuff. Yeah, thank you. And enjoy the rest of your time in the city.

You got it. You got it. You got it, man.