Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a Navy Seal - Then I Survived 30+ Years In Prison | Dusty Turner

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

Dusty Turner was granted parole in January 2026 after spending more than 30 years behind bars for a murder he has always maintained he did not commit. Growing up in a military family, Dusty achieved his dream of becoming a Navy SEAL at just 19 years old and joined SEAL Team 4 in Virginia. But in 1995, one night in Virginia Beach changed the course of his life forever, setting off a chain of events that would take him from one of the most elite military units in the world to an 82-year sentence in Virginia state prison. More than three decades later, Dusty is finally out and telling the complete story of what happened that night, the decisions that followed, the evidence that emerged years later, his fight for freedom, and what it feels like to rebuild his life after losing more than 30 years behind bars. _____________________________________________ #prison #wrongfulconviction #navyseals #truecrimestories _____________________________________________ Thank you to FACTOR for sponsoring this episode: Head to https://factormeals.com/lockedin50off and use code lockedin50off to get 50 percent off and 1 free breakfast item per box for 1 year, while supplies last until 10/31/2026. _____________________________________________ Connect with Dusty Turner: https://www.freedusty.com/To learn more about Dusty's case, watch the 2015 documentary, Target of Opportunity, and follow Dusty's official social media accounts: https://linktr.ee/freedustyturner To learn more about Dusty's work as an Ambassador for Veterans Healing Veterans From the Inside Out, and to support its programs helping incarcerated and formerly incarcerated veterans heal, rebuild, and move forward: https://linktr.ee/VHVFTIO _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Framed for Murder 00:37 Growing Up in Bloomington 01:04 A Normal Childhood 02:53 Parents' Careers 03:06 Military Influence at Home 04:02 Choosing the Military Path 05:01 No Regrets About Career Choices 06:19 Boot Camp in Orlando 07:30 Special Boot Camp for SEAL Wannabes 08:22 Why I Wanted to Be a SEAL 10:10 The Water's Pull 11:40 SEAL Reputation in the 90s 14:24 Choosing a Specialty: Photography 16:07 Photography in the SEAL Teams 17:41 Developing Photos and Finding Art 18:44 Straight to BUD/S 19:52 Memories of BUD/S 22:28 Betrayed by the Navy 24:06 Holding Onto BUD/S Memories 26:18 Did SEAL Training Prepare Me for Prison? 27:24 Graduating BUD/S 28:49 Army Airborne School 29:55 Joining SEAL Team 4 at 19 30:58 SEAL Team 4's Mission 31:02 Probationary Period and Training 32:46 The Day Before Arrest 33:26 Ordered to Tell the Truth 35:25 What I Witnessed 37:36 The Night of the Murder 40:00 Meeting Jennifer 41:04 Billy's Anger and the Confrontation 43:19 Fateful Circumstances 45:06 The Attack 46:48 Billy's Violent History 50:20 My Partner, a Psychopath 52:21 After the Murder 55:41 Duty Bound to Protect Him 57:20 No Conflict in My Actions 58:34 Driving Away and Leaving the Body 01:00:30 The Weight of the Burden 01:01:01 Billy's Callous Words 01:02:22 News Reports and Pressure 01:03:04 Decision to Report 01:04:00 The Polygraph Test 01:06:30 Relieving the Burden 01:09:48 Arresting Billy Brown 01:10:56 Helping Find the Body 01:11:28 My Own Arrest 01:13:33 If I Knew It Was My Last Night 01:15:17 Mistakes and Regrets 01:17:54 Life in County Jail 01:18:52 Calling My Parents 01:20:37 Meeting My Attorney 01:21:56 No Plea Deal 01:22:54 Separate Trials 01:23:46 Evidence Against Me 01:24:49 Testifying at Trial 01:26:42 My Lawyer's Performance 01:28:45 Prosecutors Knew the Truth 01:29:31 Arrest to Sentencing 01:30:29 Life Sentence 01:31:37 Billy's Confession 01:32:35 Abandoned by the SEALs 01:34:25 The Judge's Bias 01:35:07 First Prison: Buckingham 01:36:20 Learning to Adapt 01:37:48 Navigating Prison Culture 01:40:45 First Impressions and Treatment 01:42:40 Did People Believe My Story? 01:45:28 Expecting Early Release 01:46:39 The 2008 Writ of Actual Innocence 01:48:13 Appeals and the Single Word 01:49:22 The Word: Restraint 01:53:01 Supreme Court Overturns Release 01:54:24 Feeling After the Overturn 01:55:28 Contacting the Victim's Family 01:56:59 Life Forever Altered 01:59:39 A Parole Board Member's Courage 02:01:00 Becoming Parole Eligible 02:04:16 What Haunted Me Most 02:09:10 What Kept Me Alive 02:11:02 First Day of Freedom 02:14:11 Who Stuck By Me 02:15:21 Family Losses 02:16:27 Reclaiming Lost Senses 02:19:06 Hardest Adjustments 02:21:20 Parole Conditions and Fear 02:21:53 How to Help 02:26:13 Staying Positive 02:27:34 What Good Came From This 02:29:25 Final Thoughts and Veterans Work _____________________________________________ To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka  

He framed me for the murder of this young lady. And so the next day is when they came and arrested me. That's Dusty Turner. He became a Navy seal at just 19 years old. Then one night changed the next three decades of his life. After witnessing a murder, he says he tried to stop. Dusty was sentenced to 82 years in Virginia State Prison. More than 30 years later, he was released on parole,

but is still fighting for his freedom. Today, he's telling the story of what happened that night, how he ended up convicted, and what it took to survive, more than three decades behind bars. I grew up literally in a home that is about two and a half miles from here. And we are in a place that's only about two miles from the campus, Indiana University. And so this is Bloomington, Indiana. And to where I was born and raised until I joined the Navy.

What was your early childhood like? Um, we, uh, uh, uh, I say we, my childhood was, um, potentially, I guess, normal. Um, I come from a decent, uh, family here in Bloomington. And, um, I've got, you know, a few brothers and a sister and I got, uh, you know, a lot of cousins and aunts and uncles. And I just have a relatively, you know, I guess a large family. And, um, my childhood was like, You know, I was into sports growing up all through school. Wasn't a great student, but, you know, I can't, there's not a whole lot that's remarkable, I think, about my childhood. Other than just to say, you know, I'm sure there's just a lot of, I know there's a lot of people and especially people that are, that have, you know, compelling stories may have childhoods that are difficult. But I don't see mine as being that way. I grew up with my stepfather.

Excuse me. My stepfather from the age of since I was like one years old, he was my father, my dad, but my father was also nearby. And so I had the maybe the benefit of having both father and stepfather. around and they were both Vietnam veterans by the way. But, you know, like I said, it was just, I don't know what to say. It was a decent childhood. You know, I was a good kid from a good family.

And, you know, we weren't, you know, upper class or anything. We were at best middle class, maybe lower middle class. What they do for work, your parents. So my stepdad was an insurance seldom. and my mother was a school teacher, elementary school teacher, or basically our whole adult life, you know. Was the military atmosphere instilled in you as a kid? Is that where you got that from? Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, my father, my stepfather were Vietnam veterans, which had a profound impact on them, by the way. But my older brother joined the Navy right out of high school. I have aunts and uncles cousins, female male that were in the military. And so it's just, you know, it's kind of part of the family, you know, structure that I was, you know, I was destined to go in the military. You know, I could have got a scholarship.

You know, especially for swimming. swimmer. But I was already destined. I was already focused and set on joining the military. How old are you when you made that choice internally that that was going to be your path? Well, I don't know, but I made it officially when I was 17. And my mother had to sign a waiver so that I could get in the military at the age of 17. So I was still in high school and Yeah, I was unwavering in that decision that I was going to join the military. And specifically at the time, at the age of 17, I wanted to be a scuba diver in the Navy. I'd been diving for a few years.

And then sometime thereafter in my senior year of high school and before I actually went into boot camp, I learned about the Navy SEALs. and at some point therein I was just dead set that that's what I was going to do. Do you ever think about now what career you could have gone in? If there was another career, what that would have been? Not really. I don't really waste a lot of my time in thinking things like that. And even during my long incarceration, I didn't just sit around and like, oh, I wonder what if this or what, you know,

What if I would have done that? Where I could have been, because you never know. You could have went into something in the next day. You get ran over by a truck. You don't know what could have happened. You know, you only know what did happen. So, no, you know, there was other avenues that kind of interested me. You know, I had kind of an offer to go do some diving on an oil rig,

even out off of the coast of Australia, which sounds pretty cool, right? But regardless, I was very focused on what I wanted to do, and I was going to become a Navy SEAL, and it wasn't even really for me a question at some point or at that point. That's just, that was my, you know, my destination. So were you still 17 when you went off to boot camp, or did you? I was 18. Okay. Yeah.

And where'd you go to boot camp at? Orlando, Florida. Oh, really? Do they still do it in Orlando now? Mm-mm. No. No, they stopped at, like, in the 90s. Yeah.

They haven't had boot camp down there since literally, like, 90, I don't know, 95 or something. 97. I'm not really sure. Was boot camp what you expected it to be? you know, boot camp was the hardest thing I ever went through, you know, at the time. So later, and now, unfortunately, I really don't remember a whole lot about boot camp because of other experiences, I guess, that I had after that, they were much more difficult. So that whole boot camp experience is, to be honest, I mean, I barely remember bits and pieces of it.

But I do know at the time, it was the hardest thing I ever gone through, right? Yeah, so it was, and I was under a special, I was in a special boot camp class. It was designed strictly for seal team wannabes, EODD wannabes. that's explosive ordinance disposal, and then a diver, one of these. And that's it. So it was a class of, you know, they call it the dive fare program or something. And so we were set aside from the other boot camp classes and made to do things that was a little beyond what the others were doing.

But, you know, I think if I remember, I was like probably 80-something people. Most of them wanted to be seals. none of them became seals. I was the only one to make it through seal training of that whole group later. You know. What was it about becoming a Navy SEAL that interested you and impacted you the most?

Great question. You know, perhaps I can't put myself back in that 17, year old, 18 year old mind that in which I became so determined that that's what I was going to do. It wasn't that that's what I was going to try to do. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't going to try to become a Navy SEAL. I was just, I was going to become a Navy SEAL.

And, and I can't tell you what it was that. that solidified in my mind, that that's what I wanted to do, or that's what I was going to do, you know. So I don't know, there's many elements, you know, and I think back, like, where did I, you know, even in my earlier childhood of, like, what turned me on to want to kind of move down that path? And as I said, I was into all these sports.

But I was really, like, focused or just like, enamored with things of the water. And, you know, I became a competitive swimmer and, you know, a really decent state swimmer for the state of Indiana. Not the best, but I was competing with the best of the state. And then I was, like I said, a scuba diver, but I did all the water sports. And, I mean, it was something about the water that really drew me in early on. And the element of the seal, which is sea, air, and land. Their operations in the water is like the pinnacle of water of water operators in the country, perhaps, around the whole world.

And it's really that that kind of drew me in, perhaps. I remember as a young child finding a baby, book. I mean, I was young. And the book was, I don't know what the book was about, but there was this two-page spread illustrated. And it was a ship on the surface of the water. And you see under the water. And there was a, what I believed, and remember it to be like a pirate. And he's swimming underwater. And he's got his knife between his teeth. And he's diving down. And there's a treasure chest down there. And just the whole scene. And that's something, You know, it sounds crazy.

I don't know, but juvenile or whatever, but it stuck with me somehow in my youth. And it was like, that's a bad ass dude. And I want to be that dude, the one that's swimming underwater with a knife between his teeth and doing stuff, you know. So, anyway, that's, you know, that's kind of the elements of my, um, draw towards the water and then into the seal teams. Were there movies about the seals back then? And did they have the reputation they do now? No and no.

I think there was like a movie. I didn't ever see it, but there was a movie, if you go look, and I'm sure there's something like early before the mid-90s, you know, maybe something about Frogman or, I don't know. And there was a few books, but the books, I know that now, like, A lot of the community members come out and, you know, they write books, they have podcasts. They talk about their operations, like a lot in detail, right?

I haven't actually looked into a lot of those things. And I've seen them here and there, some of the guys, and it's pretty interesting. But I just don't have time to, you know, be watching. I just don't have the time. You're just sitting around watching. you know, whether it's former SEAL team guys or others just, you know, talk about their experiences.

Right now I'm just, I'm making my own experiences and living. But what's the point? The point is that back then, there was so little exposure to the SEAL teams. They didn't have the movies, all the movies about them, and they didn't have all this stuff going on.

So, therefore, how did I even come across it? At the age of 17, like I said, I joined the military. Do want to be a diet? That's because I was a diver and I knew that there was an avenue in the military. I didn't even, I've never even heard of the SEAL teams. When it was first presented to me, I'm like, wow, what? These guys do what?

They're like, so and then my brother, my older brother was already in the Navy. And so I think that he either saw my interest or kind of help facilitate my interest in that direction. He started sending me things. He sent me this Navy SEAL cadence cassette tape, right? and I would listen to it. I've never told anybody about this, actually. But, you know, it's kind of comical, I guess, but it's iconic, like iconic Navy Seal cadence

from back in the early 90s. You know, it's pretty cool cassette tape, and I'd listen to it, and I'd go running, and, you know. What's a cassette tape? No, I'm kidding. I was born 95. We had cassettes, and you had to rewind it, too, in the rewinder.

Do you ever have to take a pen and actually rewind it by hand? Yep, there was that. And then also the VCRs, the VHS tapes, you'd get that machine that you'd have separately because they weren't built into the system yet to rewind it. And you would open it up and put it in. Yeah, you're not that old. Come on, man. Stop. I know, I look really young.

Okay. Where do you go after basic training after you finish that? So I was amongst just a few amount of guys who had qualified physically. and pass whatever other tests required to actually to kind of reserve a spot in the seal training. And so they bring me a list of what's called in A schools and other branches. That would be like your MOS. It's your job, your military job, occupation. So they said, listen, you have to take one of these.

you'll have to take one of these schools. These are the only ones that are compatible with the SEAL teams. And so it's your choice, right? So, you know, this is a brand new to me, so I'm looking at it. And instead of looking at what the school was, I looked at the locations. And so I go down the list of the locations, and I've seen a few pretty good, awesome looking locations. One was Pensacola, Florida. and I looked over and it said photography school

and I'm like Pensacola, Florida taking photos yeah, that's what I'm doing right? So that's what I did. I went straight from boot camp into, I probably went home for a minute, yeah, I went home after boot camp, you know, met my family and all that good stuff.

And then right to Penscold Florida for what was called Defense Photography School And that was, you know, just a month, a couple months maybe of learning out of snap photos. And that plays into being an AV. SEAL, having that skill? It does a little bit. It put me in the intelligence department within the SEAL teams. And it put me in a couple positions where I had to take photos. And I wish that I would have paid more attention when I was.

in that school because then all of a sudden I'm thrust in a position where they're like, and this is nothing like real time in another country where I'm, you know, but it was, but still it was for the shield teams. And they're like, hey, look, you're the photographer. I need you to go do this, that, and the other. One of them was a shoot from a helicopter. They wanted arrow photography. I mean, who knows what they would do now and drones and so forth.

but I'm literally hanging out of the helicopter snapping photos, right, on a 35-millimeter camera. And I ended up kind of getting chewed out over that later because all because I didn't log in. I should have logged in correctly. Everything from your F stops and shutter speed and the location and the lighting, you know, all this stuff in the specific picture frame,

and log it all in so that when I present it, I would have, you know, here are the photos. Here's exactly the elements of each photo. And I just wasn't there. I didn't have all that. And I really got reamed out for that. And then what do you have to take the photos and go back and actually physically develop them in a room and all? Oh, yeah.

I would develop the film in a dark room and then take the negatives and print out prints. For a guy that was, you know, a physical swimmer and very athletic, did that even interest you doing that type of? No, it's pretty cool. I mean, it was cool. It was something, you know, something I learned. And more than that, I didn't really care about having to sit here in dark and try to develop your film and all that crap. But I'm also a bit of an artist. And I was interested in and learned a lot from just the idea of setting up the shot,

you know, in looking at the different elements of what makes a good photo, you know. And so anyway, that was something that actually did interest me. And still today, you know, I can't help but when I'm taking a photo to think about a lot of those elements before I snap that picture. Where do you go after that? So I was assigned to go directly to SIL training. So I was young. Boot Camp, A-school, straight to Bud's training, San Diego.

I mean, that typically doesn't happen, right? Normally, a guy, go to boot camp, go to his A-school, go into the fleet, go to work, his job, whatever he just learned, and at that station, he would petition for it to go to seal training. I'm not 100% why. I'm not 100% sure why they were so quick to send me directly into a seal train. And it resulted in later me becoming the youngest seal team member in the whole Navy at the time. But I did go straight to, straight to buds, basic underwater demolition seal school. Do you have memories of that or what that experience was like?

Yeah, I do have. I do have memories of that. And I don't know if my memories, I feel like my memories are inadequate compared to a lot of the other guys who have gone through buds. Because I've heard some guys describe their time at buds, and when they do, I'm like, oh, wow, now I'm,

you know, I had forgotten that part or this or whatever that I had gone through. but I got to say that I went for years during my incarceration in which I sort of almost tried to forget about my military experience and as we can talk about the military, if I can say as a whole or generally, they turn their back on me. and they did me wrong.

And so I turned my back on them. And that short few years of my experiences in the military, you know, I just kind of felt like that's not something that's going to define me, you know, that period in the military, that's not going to be my defining point of my life. And so, yeah, I was there. I did this, I did that. And I'm not trying to belittle. You know, I graduated Bud's training, which is, you know, it is tremendous.

And then, you know, what I did forward. But at the same time, I wasn't, I didn't, I wasn't trying to use that as to, to, to, I almost feel like that was the pinnacle of my life. And I think I just held such a grudge against the Navy. And specifically, I'm hesitant to kind of make my words concise because I'm not suggesting that I have some kind of grudge against the SEAL team community as a whole. Because it's not like individuals, not like the community did me wrong. necessarily, but some individuals did do me wrong. They really did. And, you know, they,

someone in the upper administration had ordered the men who were around me to consider me dead and did not have any contact with me or my family. And that was their order, from what I understand that was their order. And so they, you know, they did that. And so I didn't have contact with a lot of these guys, you know, some, I mean, I still haven't with a lot of them. I have with some. Anyway, that's, you know, some of the issue I had, but I guess my point is that I, so I went from years that, that I basically just, I was, I was living in an incarcerated environment where it's, you know, I was left largely alone. And as I've said before, kind of thrown to the wolves.

Wrongly. Absolutely wrongly. And so no one was there to help me out. You know what I mean? I was alone. And in a state of where I have no family. you know and and and then I had no virtually no friends no family I was in you know a state quite a few states over to the east that I mean I'm alone I'm by myself at the age of 20 years old

thrown in that environment was there a moment from bud's training that even despite trying to push your military memories to the side while you're in prison that you still hold on to a memory from that time period that you'll always hold on to especially given how you know tough it is and yeah i mean there's listen there's plenty of memories gosh there's plenty of memories and uh yeah i mean there's a lot of memories from from buds i'm not going to say i don't remember i remember plenty of stuff um it was hell you know i mean it's really that what they do in in bud's training is um they it's and right from the beginning they want to try to make you quit

period, right? So they're doing everything they can to make you walk over to that bell that I used to have to shine and hang up every morning, like four in the morning, and ring that bell three times and say, you quit. I DOR, I drop on request. You take your helmet and you put it on the ground next to this whole row of helmets of all these people that have quit. And that's what the instructors are trying to do.

right? Because if a person has that in them, that at any point they're willing to quit at any point, then that's not something that some person that they want serving next to them when the shit hits a fan, you know. So, and it makes sense. You know, an instructor wants to make sure, an instructor's still an active duty seal. He wants to make sure that whoever's graduating can be right next to him and he can feel 100% confident in his competency and his, and his abilities. So, you know, they have to do that and it makes perfect sense. So my point is that, you know, therefore they put you through absolute hell and you get put through mental and physical trials and tribulations that are well beyond

what you ever understood the human body can endure. Do you think that training prepared you for prison in a way? In a lot of ways. I mean, military kind of can prepare someone to live or, you know, kind of exist in that kind of environment. Because there's a lot of similarities in the military in prison. But, yeah, you know, going through that training, again, I was 20 years old and I'm thrust into this. environment of convicts in Virginia where I don't know anybody, you know. And it's such a juxtaposition from having been where I was at, you know, with Seal Team 4 out

on the East Coast, and the next day I'm thrust into a whole new environment of concrete and steel and convicts, and I had to adapt, you know. How did it feel to graduate seal team training to reach your goal of becoming a Navy SEAL? Yeah. So it felt good. You know, when I graduated Buds, I flew my mother out to San Diego to be part of my graduation. and I was about to say you can imagine, maybe you can't imagine what that does feel like.

Obviously there's a great pride, you know, having gone through that. I probably didn't even understand the absolute significance or the, you know, how large that, that it was, you know, to be able to endure and to get through that training, which, you know, at the time, maybe now, arguably, maybe the most difficult military training in the world, you know. And not many people make it through.

I think that we started off with about 180 guys initially in that class. And it was whittled down. I graduated with 19 guys. And then from there you go to CL Team 4? No, from there I went to Army Airborne School, learning with the Army guys. I shouldn't say that, with the Army people, because there are men and women in there learning to.

See, I was from boot camp. In that special class, I was only with men, young men. In Buds, you know, it's nothing but men. So, you know, I often, you know, say guys. And then, you know, later I'm in prison with nothing but men. But anyway, we, graduating Buds, went to Army Airborne school, you know, learn the basics of jumping out of planes. And then I was assigned to Steel Team 4. and I don't know what your initial question was, but then, you know, I come out to Seal Team 4 early in

1995. And you're 20 years old at that point? I'm 19 years old. 19. I was 19 years old when I arrived and checked into Steel Team 4, thus being the youngest seal team member at the time. And what was Seal Team 4? assignment during that period of time?

Their area of operations was Central and South America. And that's one of the things really that appealed to me and why I wanted to go to that team. I kind of envisioned operating in that realm of the world. Central and South America, I had a little bit of Spanish language schooling. And, but more so the idea of the warmer waters, the jungles, the narco-tropocantes, you know, all these things was something that kind of appealed to me, and I could envision myself

operating down there. Now, what happens once you get to the East Coast, you're stationed with them? Do you guys ship off right away? So we, all the new guys, back then in the 90s, when they were. they arrive, they go through like a six-month probationary period, give or take, and they go through what was called SEAL Tactical Training. And so I arrived early February 1995 at SEAL Team 4. I was assigned into a platoon. But meanwhile, I'm going through this SEAL tactical training, And it's a training which they kind of hone a lot of skills of weapons and demolitions

and advanced diving techniques. We were down in Puerto Rico for a while doing advanced diving and land navigation, you know, warfare stuff. Excuse me. And then it was, so that was early February by late June. I was at the completion, you know, right at the end of or tail end of that period. And it's then in which the official tacking on of the Trident, which is this, you know, the bird symbol that,

where they used to call the Budweiser, that they, you know, tack on your chest, and to make it official. I was some days away from that. ceremony when I was arrested. What happened the day you were arrested? Well, I think more importantly what happened, or maybe more interesting, is the day before I was arrested. The day before I was arrested, they arrested Billy Joe Brown for the murder of a young

lady named Jennifer Evans. and they arrested them in large part because I told them what had happened and what I witnessed. And I told them what had happened, what I witnessed, because I was ordered by a senior officer to do so. And that's something I had carried around for approximately a week, knowing. what had happened and before I was felt that I was in a position where I was able to tell someone about what had happened and what I knew it happened. So I told my senior officer and he spoke with detectives and then he ordered me to answer their questions truthfully. And so that's what I did. He was arrested.

I find out later that when they went and confronting him, probably the whole good cop, bad cop routine, and they said, you're buddy, this guy that you've been training with and that you're supposed to be so tight with for the last year and a half, you're in the same team on the same platoon, and he just told us everything that you just did. and he felt like I had broke the seal team code

and so therefore he felt justified in what he would say now is bringing me down with him and so he on the spot concocted a story to include me into the crime and because he felt so incensed like that I had literally broke a code that I shouldn't have or couldn't have. And he framed me for the murder of this young lady. And so the next day is when they came and arrested me.

What exactly did you witness? I witnessed him. snap while he was extremely inebriated for no reason imaginable. He completely snapped and with a very swift maneuver, killed an innocent 21-year-old young lady. I think we can all agree that during the summer our diets definitely take a hit especially when we're busy going on vacations and doing a lot of traveling. Now that summer's coming to an end, it's time to get serious.

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Where were you guys? We were seated in my vehicle and he was he was not supposed to be there. He was, maybe I should say too that this is a guy that I started training with, Buzz training. we were paired together because we're the same height and which is incredible when I think back because this guy is a I don't know if I should say was or still is a psychopath and I'm not sure he's actually been diagnosed with that but he is sociopath psychopath and I was paired with them because we're same height and we went through when I say paired with them in training and maybe even later in the teams they refer to your partner you're always you're never alone you're always with a partner they refer to that as a swim buddy and so he was paired with me

early in training as a swim buddy we went through the entirety of seal training together Army Airborne school together. And then later, and to this day, I don't know how or why, we were put on the same seal team and put in the same platoon. And then we were going through that additional tactical training together.

So I was, I was literally, he was literally thrust upon me as my partner. And we were there for, like, you know, joined in that bond, which is why later when, you know,

he felt like I had betrayed or broke the seal code and betrayed him by revealing to the authorities what had happened, he felt justified in putting that blame on me, you know. So I had, that evening I had met this young lady, She actually came up to me in the bar and introduced herself. And we hit it off. I met her girlfriends. I mean, it was a totally normal night.

Billy Brown was kind of off to the side by himself, getting drunk and more drunk and more drunk. He was drunk when he showed up. And he was drinking an incredible amount of alcohol at the club. So I was able to find him a ride home. so that Jennifer and I could be alone. And we planned on going down to the beach and walking. She was a tourist, basically. She wasn't from the area.

I wasn't from the area. And we initially planned on taking a walk on the beach, kicking our shoes off, and just strolling on the beach a little bit. Late at night, it was late. So I had secured a ride for him, which wasn't easy because his ex-girlfriend was at the club, and I knew she would be reluctant to,

but I convinced her to take him home, and she agreed. So I didn't expect to see him for the rest of the night. And that pissed him off, too, by the way, and some other things pissed him off. And so when he showed up at my car, drunk, pissed off, and that combination, and plus you can add, you know, steroid use,

and whatever else, it's just a bad brew for a psychopath, you know. And he, you know, he wasn't in the vehicle. He got in the car, and I was only able to tell Jennifer to be careful. No, I didn't say be careful. I said, don't pay no attention to this guy. He's drunk. And that's as much as I got out of my mouth before he came to the car, right? because I've seen him approaching the vehicle.

Her girlfriends were set to be there to pick her up within maybe seconds or certainly minutes, which is why we were out there waiting for her girlfriends. And instead, he shows up. And it gets in the car behind her in my small little compact vehicle. And she never said a word to him, even though he was, he started badgering her almost immediately. I mean, as soon as he got in, I was like, look, and I try to be calm with him

because I already knew his demeanor. And I've seen him become aggressive, and I've seen him become violent towards people and including towards women. And, you know, I knew that he was in a headspace that, I've seen him in before when he has become violent. So when he got in the car, I attempted to kind of calm, make sure he was calm, because he was already pissed off at me because I was leaving him, pawned him off on his ex-girlfriend. What I didn't know is he and her just got into an argument,

and she was going to take him home, you know. She was going to take him home. but she had to wait for her girlfriend. And so they get in the argument. And he's like, well then fine, fuck you. I'm going to try to find Dusty. And he rolled out the door and he found me, you know, as fate would have it, as fate would have it.

And, you know, perhaps if he waited two minutes, you know, everything would have been different. Her girlfriends would have showed up. She would have been gone, you know, or who knows. But, you know, it's crazy how fate kind of works, you know, I don't know if that's the right word, but just the circumstances that, you know,

so many little things could have been different and there would have been a different outcome. You know, it went from a totally normal night to the worst possible, horror, you know, that you could imagine. And he, you know, he takes a life of a young lady literally for, I mean, no reason. And even today, you ask him, you know, why did you, why did you do that? What compelled you to, in your mind, to snap out on an innocent young woman?

And he still doesn't have an answer. It's 30 fucking two years later And he still can't tell you why he did it You know He says I think I mean I don't know But I think today he just He just says

You know I don't know I was drunk and I just snapped You know And it's not a reason He's you know I don't know But

You know When he did And I tried to Like I said I was trying to talk calmly to him to get him to get out of a vehicle and to go find his ex-girlfriend, but she was going to take him home. And he was like, fuck that bitch. She, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so, and he turned his attention to Jennifer and was saying something kind of crass to her.

So, and she was totally uncomfortable, you know, I could feel it. I was uncomfortable. Hell. And he's, you know, he's 220 pounds, solid, just went through sealed train. and he's, I mean, he's a fucking monster, you know what I mean? And he's juiced up on test, you know, steroids, alcohol. And, and he's becoming an alcoholic. He's drinking almost every single night, you know.

It's just, it's a bad brew. He's got a history of violence. We didn't, no one knew this shit. He's got a history of violence against people, but women. Going all the way back to when he was a teenager, he's beating on women. And, um, And it's a real history. And how the hell does he get into the military?

And then apparently he was in the Coast Guard, got kicked out of the Coast Guard. And then they led him in the Navy. Then they led him through fucking SEAL training. And now he's right there. He's about to have his trident tacked on. And he's got that kind of history. And this is the type of person he is. And even while we were back in Buzz Training,

towards the end of Buzz training. He's drunk one night. He's going to his nurse girlfriend's house who shoots him in the ass with steroids. And he hits a family in a vehicle, feels out around him and takes off. Well, they get, I mean, you know, he slams into him.

They get his vehicle description and his license plate and his personal description. What do you think happened there? What do you think happened to him? Nothing. They swept that shit up under the rug. is 1994. And that's the culture.

That's the culture. They protect it. Because that's what you're supposed to. I don't know how things are today. But in the 90s, that's what they did. You know, I mean, that's the culture and that's what they promoted within that community is you protect your own.

You protect them. You know what I mean? And there's been, if you go back and look, there's a lot of, back then we'll say there's a lot of incidents in which that was just going on. And I'm sure it was on in other communities too, you know, maybe the police force, maybe the, whatever. Hell, I saw in the, in the, in the correctional officers staff or the correctional officers staff or the correctional Center staff. They do some fucked up shit, and then they protect them. They protect their own, you know.

They do some real messed up things to other humans, and then they protect their own, you know. And you've seen it. You know how it is. So in the community of the SEAL teams, and again, especially maybe back then, you know, that was just part of the culture. So we had this history, you know. I didn't know about, of course I did know about that hit and run issue, but hell, the Navy was willing to sweep it under the rug.

That's what you're supposed to do, you know, you protect your own, I guess. So he was just, you know, he's a ticking time bomb. And if things would have went different that night, and by the time he'd come out of the car or whatever, it was different, and Jennifer's leave with her friends as she was supposed to do, that doesn't mean an atrocity wasn't to come because he was on a destructive path that was inevitable. It was absolutely inevitable. One night, it was like four of us had to restrain him down in Puerto Rico.

He was becoming violent. upon three young women in Puerto Rico. And it took three of us or four, I think it was, I don't know, three or four of us to restrain him, and had him out on a balcony to get him out from away from these young ladies that he just had a burst of anger and aggressiveness and it was going to hurt him, you know. And anyway, there's, you know, he's, you know, he's just, this is who this guy was. And that's who I was paired with, you know, that's who I was paired with.

You know, I come in the military to be, to be, you know, a good operator who sacrifice for the country. I was prepared to die for the country if necessary. And they stick me with this son of a bitch here, you know. And then what happens? On a normal night, he snaps out and kills an innocent young lady. And then what, you know? And then I'm putting this position. You know, my initial, when he snapped, I mean,

my initial reaction is the same as yours would have been, or I would assume or any other person or man in position, I immediately started grabbing his arms and screaming at him, you know, trying to pull his arms off of her. I mean, I did. I pulled his arms off over.

I literally had to literally dig up under his fingertips to pry his arms off of her because when he was locked on, his arms were literally like this. And how do you get his arms off of him? I'm sitting in his compact car, and it happened, you know, fast. Didn't see it coming. He would tell you, he was asked one time, maybe on giving testimony or something.

Did Dusty know you were going to snap out like that? He's like, no? He said, I didn't even know I was going to snap out like that. Anyway, so. I finally did, got up under his fingertips, literally, and pried his arms up off of her, and it was too late. She was dead. What happens after you realize she's dead?

So as I'm prying his arms off of her, I'm screaming at him, just let her go, just screaming, let her go, let her go. And, I mean, God, she's, I mean, this, she was just, she's, uh, She was really just decent young lady of, you know, from a good family and going through medical school and just, it's just so tragic, you know. It's so tragic. And I'm screaming at him. You know, I'm screaming at him, let her go. He's screaming at me, just fucking drive, just fucking drive.

and I get his arms off of her, and she's dead. And going back, you know, there's 1990, 5. There's no cell phones. There's no internet. There's probably a pay phone, maybe within a few blocks somewhere. I don't know. I don't know where the hell would be at. Obviously, they would have a phone back up in the club

in the hotel that's nearby. But I'm sitting in the parking lot and this girl is deceased sitting next to me, slumped through the passenger side window. She never said a word to him. I mean, he wasn't in the car long, but she never said a word to him, not a single word. She never even was able to react to defend herself because it happened. quickly. And so I'm, you know, I just turned 20 years old and this is what happens right next to me.

This guy I've been with for a fucking year and a half training with, this most arduous training, just did this horrible, horrible thing, you know. And what the hell do I do? You know, I'm in an unfamiliar state. I've got no friends or family and the military guys. And I'm stuck in this position of it. What the fuck do I do? You know?

And he's screaming, just fucking drive. Fucking drive. So I started driving, you know. Because what else can I do? I don't know. I don't know. But at some point, It's obvious that because of my allegiance and my duty to him

as had been drilled into me, that I really didn't have a choice at that point. I mean, literally there's no other choice. One might say, well, just jump out of the car and go run to the bar and say, hey, Fucking asshole just killed this innocent woman. Okay, but, you know, that sounds good. But that's not something I could have done.

You know, I was not able to do that. I mean, I literally wasn't able to do it. Now, if it was someone different, if it wasn't this guy that I was trained to protect, I knew I was duty-bound. He knew I was duty-bound to him, you know? Obviously, if there was someone different, I could have done, I would have done something different, but it was him. How do you think that moment conflicts with also protecting an innocent life at the same time? Why do you think it didn't trigger you did?

But there's no conflict there. My first reaction, it was your first reaction. It was to help this poor young lady as being attacked. That's not a conflict. I think anyone in that position, I would hope. anyone in that physician would have done the same thing is try to help this young lady. But what about to retaliate against him to maybe take his life in that moment? Did that go through your mind?

After she did. Yeah. That was never even a, that thought never crossed my mind to take his life. When this happened, my young mind realized that number one, this is an extremely horrific in serious situation that it's going to reverberate upon my universe. You know what I mean? It's going to impact everything.

And that includes the impact upon the SEAL team community in that moment. This is something that went into my equation, I guess, of how do I react? Or what do I do at this point? I knew that, and I carried this for the week to come, is that if and when this comes out of what he's just done, it's going to have a significant impact upon the SEAL team community. and that probably, well, I don't say probably, that was something else that was added into the equation of my decisions and my actions in that point.

Where did you guys drive to that night? I don't, I didn't know and I still really don't know. It was into, just a, it was a good distance away into a wooded area. A distance away into a wooded area. Yeah. And you just left the body there in the woods? Yeah. Yeah, I guess you could say that. At one point, when I walked away from him, he said to me, you better not fucking leave me.

And that was actually the first time it kind of went through my mind of doing something other than trying to help him cover up for what he had just done. and it went through my mind of can I just jump in the car and just drive away, you know, and leave him where he's at with her deceased body out there in the woods, you know. It flashed through my mind, but it's not what I did. I wouldn't even know where to go, to be honest, but yeah. We drove back to the base that night. Yeah. And, I mean, you can't imagine the weight of all that,

of all that, what he had just done and what I witnessed, what had happened, and how I'm to even live with this moving forward and what to do with, you know. It was a tremendous burden. You know, it was a tremendous burden. And he knew, and I knew, that I was duty bound. You know, he referred to as the seal code. You know, I broke the seal code by telling the authorities what had happened.

And, you know, there is truth to that. there's truth to that. And I'm sitting there for a week not knowing, what do I even, how do I do with this information, you know? Does he bring it up to you at all over the course of that week? Does he check in on you? Check it. You know, the next day, I didn't have, I couldn't,

I couldn't even bear to speak to him, right? And the next day, at one point, he literally says to me, And I don't even like repeating this, really, because it's so crass and horrible. But, you know, it's what he said. So what it is. He literally says, and he hadn't spoke, you know, I wasn't speaking to him whatsoever. I don't even know what the fuck to say. And he hasn't spoken to me either.

And then he says, well, at least I got my first confirmed kill. That's what comes out of his mouth. And I still don't know what the fuck to say to him, you know. I don't even know. I was in such a state of, you know, shock and trauma and just disbelief. And, again, I don't even know what the fuck to do. What do I do with that information, you know? Were there any news reports of The Missing Girl?

Yeah, there was. but I didn't know. You know, we, within, you know, no time, we're back up north in a place called Fort AP Hill doing, go right back to doing some training. And at some point, it was revealed that there were some news articles. And, you know, I later find out there's all kinds of news, you know, television print news coming out about this, poor missing young lady yeah so i found out at some point that that was going on but in the moment i didn't see or hear none of it what brings you to the decision to decide to report him well were they already on to you guys at the base oh yeah yeah yeah they were um so billy brown's ex-girlfriend

who was there that night um you know she's uh i guess did what she was supposed to do she she when she's seen some of these reports. She contacted the police and said, hey, I was there that night. I think I recognized that girl. And her and Dusty were hanging out through a portion of the night. You know, what else can I tell you? And so she told the detectives, you know,

everything that she remembered from the night. And so that led to them, you know, which included her interaction with Billy Brown, right? But that led to the detectives coming out, questioning me and him and others. And I just was sticking to this story that, you know, I don't know anything that happened, basically. And I didn't know how to relieve myself with that burden, you know,

of telling somebody, you know, what had happened to this young lady. And it came to a point in which the detectives asked me and asked him if we were willing to take a polygraph test. And when it came out of their mouth, would you be willing to take a polygraph test? I didn't even hesitate. I said, absolutely. And so they took us, one of my warrant officers, and then Billy Brown and myself went to a FBI field office to

to take the polygraph. They separated myself and him and it was virtually the last time I saw him. And they hooked me up to polygraph machine and my thought was I know I still have to lie for him because it's my duty. but if this polygraph is accurate it'll show that I lied for him and meanwhile they were going to hook him up in another room I find out later and he absolutely refused to take it which is obvious that there was you know obviously nothing to gain for him to take the polygraph test so so again I took the polygraph test I lied

in order to continue protecting him. And they came to me with the results and showed me exactly where I lied. And they were like, it's obvious you know what happened. It's obvious that Billy Brown killed this girl. And whatever other questions it was, I don't remember, but those were significant ones.

and we need you to tell us what happened. And I still couldn't voice it. I gave them that information. You know what I mean? By agreeing for the polygraph, I gave them that information. So they now knew from my results the basics of what had happened. And then they were, you know, they were also. playing the good cop, bad cop thing.

But one of the detectors came in and started talking about Jennifer's family and what they were going through right now in the moment, you know, and she's been missing for over a week now. And to be honest, I mean, it was really, that was really painful to hear in the process, you know, and to think. about and um and i basically said listen i'll answer any your questions or or i won't answer any more your questions um until i speak with my warrant officer who's out there in the lobby and so he came in and we were alone and and i told him uh i said um the detectives are asking me questions

about things that I know, but I have refused to tell them the answers, and I don't know what to do. And so he says, tell me exactly what happened. So I told him everything that happened. That was my warrant officer. And so he took the information, and he says, okay, I'm going to try to call the JAG officer,

and I'll be back. So he's gone for probably, I don't know, 10 minutes, give or take. And he comes back in, and he says, he says the JAG officer cannot help us out because this is an off-base matter. However, the detector's going to come back in here. They're going to ask you five questions. And I want you to answer those questions truthfully. I said, are you sure that's what I should do?

He said, yes. So I took that as a. direct order. And that was the first time since witnessing that I was able to relieve myself of that burden. He gave me the order. He was a senior SEAL team guy. And he ordered me to answer the detective questions truthfully. And so I was relieved of that burden at that point.

And so I was able to do that. And I answered them, you know, they asked me like five questions. I answered them truthfully. And that's when they went in and arrested Billy Brown. And that's when he was so, you know, incensed that I would break the seal code because he didn't know what transpired right before that. He just assumed, I guess, that I just went in there saying, you know, hey, detectives, this is exactly what happened.

But regardless, he framed me for the murder. Now, before they go and arrest him, are the cops promising you or telling you that you're okay? I mean, they saw the polygraph. They knew you didn't kill her. Right. So, no, in fact, I accompanied one of the detectives with my warrant officer.

The three of us went, they asked me if I could help locate her body. And I said I would try. And so we all, the three of us, went. drove to the location. It took a little while. We split up in the woods, the three of us, and we're combing through the woods. And finally, the detective come upon her body.

And then so, you know, they called in the forensics people, and my warrant officer and I ended up leaving. You know, Billy Brown's already arrested. We go back to the base. You know, one of my other senior officers, at some point, it's like, look, I think you, do you have money? Because I think you need to get a lawyer. And I'm so naive at the time.

And I'm like, you really think I need a lawyer? I mean, that sounds like, you know, serious. I just had no idea. That's how naive I was at the time that I didn't even assume that I needed an attorney. But anyway, the next day I went back down to the SEAL Team 4 compound. My commanding officer wanted to have a discussion with me, and that's where I was at that next morning, awaiting that discussion with the commanding officer of SEAL Team 4 when NIS Naval Investigative Service guys comes in and says, Turner, we got to put you under arrest. They allowed me to change clothes out of my fatigues and innocent, some civilian gear. And took me to the edge of the base, handing me over to the Virginia Beach detectives.

And they brought me into the arrest of me, you know. What was the talk on the grounds when Billy got arrested that 24 hours before you were arrested? Had word gotten out? Was it public or no? Yeah, I don't. Oh, public? I mean, it's not like there was cell phones or anything, but TV maybe. Right, right, right, right.

Great question. And I'm not 100% sure. So I was a bit isolated that evening because I was up in this kind of obscure area of an obscure base that I was just cut off from all that, you know. I don't know. I'm not sure what the hell was going on. I'm sure there was starting to be some things. circulating within the unit. And, you know, I'd spoken to my mother on the phone and told her that, you know, I can't

tell you much of what's going on, but I witnessed something horrible and, you know, something like that. And I ended up speaking to an attorney that night, and they were like, look, come to our office tomorrow, noon down in Virginia Beach, and we'll, you know, We'll talk about it. I never made it because they had me arrested that morning. So I don't know. I have absolutely no idea if, like, news broke, you know,

and there was television coverage or whatever else the next day. Maybe, I assume. Maybe. I don't even know. I'm really not sure. If you had known that that was going to be your last night of freedom for over 30 years, would you have done something differently? Yeah.

Yeah, I would have found a way to get to a ship over a plane and get the hell out of America, I guess. Because there was nothing in my mind. You know, first of all, I was surprised they were arresting me, right? That was a surprise. I didn't quite understand. And then when I got to the jail, I assumed that, you know, because I'd never been in jail before. I didn't know the process. I had no dealings with the judicial system.

Completely ignorant. I didn't know how things were going to go. I just assumed that once the detectives do their work within some hours or some days or something, they're going to let me out, even Billy Brown now says he thought that I was going to spend two weeks in jail before the detectives and the authorities.

to realize the truth of what had happened. He thought I'd spend two weeks in jail. I didn't think I was going to spend that much time in jail. I just assumed that, you know, at some point, that the truth of exactly what happened would come out and, you know, anything that I was culpable in that I would be, you know, I would take accountability for, and I have.

But they charged me and convicted me, of a murder and a reduction charge and gave me a life sentence. No, if you had had a lawyer when you answered those five questions to the detective... I wouldn't know I answered the fucking five questions. Why would I answer the five questions? So that was, even though you made the mistake of waiting the week to report it,

that could have fixed it, that could have mitigated it? The mistake was, I should have went immediately to my superior officers. That's what I should have done. And I could have done that, even in the, under the duty or the code that I was under, I could have gone to my senior officers and said, look, something happened, you know, last night or whatever, and that, you know, this is what happened, you need to know about this ASAP. Because I don't, you know, that's, I should have done that. absolutely should have done that. Jennifer's still dead in that scenario.

Billy Brown is still, you know, doing a life sentence in that scenario, I guess. But I probably would not have been convicted of crimes I didn't commit, you know. So, you know, in hindsight, that's one of my biggest regrets is not going to immediately to my spear officers and tell them what happened. And they, and they regret, they don't regret that. They, um, are, they also believe that's what I should have done. And the fact that I didn't, um, and that I held the allegiance to my partner, uh, my shield team partner, um, as the highest allegiance.

and then to the teams as my secondary allegiance. There's some that I think believe that it should have been the other way around, that I should have went first to the SEAL team commanders and told them what happened. And I agree I should have done that, you know, and held that over my allegiance to, and what I felt was being duty-bound to my shield team partner. Does that make sense?

Yeah. I mean, it's a fucked up position to be in. at 20 years old, you know, navigating that and having that burden and just not knowing what to do with it, you know. It was tough. It was tough. So you get arrested, they take you to the county jail, what happens? Oh, man, you know, going to the county jail is, that's, you know, that's, you know, going from 100, mile an hour out there on the outside and doing what I was doing. And now I'm in this goddamn concrete box. And you know, you know what it's like, it's bad. You know, it sucks.

But my father was out in California and he was researching, you know, this pre-internet, but he's researching trying to find an attorney for me in Virginia Beach. And so, and he does. And this is, you know, that's the last freedom I had. It was that day. That was it. I was locked up every since from there for, you know, about 31 years. What's that phone call with your parents like, just breaking the news to them?

Oh, my gosh. I don't remember, you know. There was a lot of, you know, how does, how does, one wrapped their mind around, you know, a phone call from their son saying, sitting in prison and they've charged me with murder and abduction. You know, through all that time and through all those, through the trial and through all the trauma and the issues, my family members and good friends, they didn't waver. They didn't waver because they knew me.

They knew what I was capable and incapable of. So for them it wasn't a question of, you know, should they support me? The support was, you know, had to be there. How could they not? So anyway, yeah, I can't imagine for them what that phone call. was like, I don't remember it. I'm sure my mother could tell you. She probably broke down.

But, yeah, and that was the beginning of just a long period of just disappointments and hardships and just, you know, excruciating times, not just for myself, but my whole family. You know, very difficult. What about that first meeting with your attorney? Is he assuring you that, hey, you know, you didn't actually commit the murder or you didn't kidnap anyone so you'll be okay? You know, I... No, I just... Yes, yes, he was kind of...

My initial attorney, it was my trial attorney. He was an older guy. And, yes, he absolutely was, you know, same. look, we just, we need to, you know, put you on the stand. We need, you know, when it came all the way to the, I didn't even think I was going to go to a trial, I'll tell you truth. And there was a point in which there was a suggestion that when the, when the prosecuting attorneys were just trying to figure out what they're actually going to do with me, there was a

suggestion at one point, well, maybe they just had me testify about what happened and not charge me with these charges. But at some point, they realized, I was going to say they hoped, but they realized that they could potentially get a conviction of myself for the same charges. And they did. Did they offer you a plea deal at all? No, no. Why do you think they didn't? I don't know.

I mean, they knew I wouldn't take it. a plea real? I don't know. I think my attorney expressed, I'm not going to take a plea bargain for anything. I was guilty of an accessory after the fact of a felony, which was a misdemeanor crime, right, and never been in trouble before. So you can imagine how much time maximum I would spending in jail for a misdemeanor. So I would have, you know, I would have accepted a plea deal, I guess you'd say, for, and accepted responsibility for what I'd done. But, you know, I couldn't accept responsibility for something I hadn't done.

Was your guys trial joint together? No, no, no, no. It was separate. Yeah. And did he go to trial first? That's right. So they didn't call you to testify against him at all? No.

How are they able to convict him without any testimony of anyone there? How are they able to convict me? I mean, the whole thing was circumstantial. For him, it was different. A lot of his statements alone, because he was wishy-washy on the things that he told the detectives. So it was different for him. for me, you know, when I told them what had happened, this is what it happened.

So it's not like I wavered on it. It's what had happened. Did he testify against you at all? No. So then what evidence do they have against you at trial? Just what the detectives are saying? I mean, it's just circumstantial evidence. There's no concrete.

There's no DNA. There's no. they used circumstantial evidence with his statement, and they built a theory of what, you know, what could have happened or however you put that, and that's what they presented to the jury. And these are the authorities, this is 1995, 96, these are the authorities.

They're presenting it to, you know, the public of Virginia Beach. The jury is almost all in their 60s and 70s, And of course, they're not going to be lied to from a prosecuting attorney. So they have to assume what the prosecuting attorney is saying in is truth. Right? And there's a young lady who's dead. So I'm on the, you know, I'm the defendant.

There's, it was inevitable they were going to convict me. Did you end up testifying? No, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Why do you think your testimony didn't make a difference? Because I was young. And the prosecuting attorneys were seasoned veterans at trying to trick people up,

and they were using information that was irrelevant and using circumstantial things that they tried to paint me to look like a bad guy, using things that have nothing to do with anything, and anything that could find and twist it and put a narrative to it. And so in the eyes of the jury, you know, make me look like a bad guy, it wasn't, it wasn't even true. It wasn't even true. And then I'm stuck to having to offend myself and all these little things. I mean, they literally used like, I used an evaluation, for example, that I did while I was in the SEAL teams of, evaluating some of the training that we had gone through, and literally we were told, you know,

when you write this evaluation, so-and-so is going to read it, so you can, you know, be a little comical if you want or whatever. And I said something about, you know, it was so stupid. It's like, yeah, if y'all can't fix this or that, then this young, hairy-chested, handsome frogman is going to find a new job. right and that ends up in my trial to show somehow that I'm a bad guy

that I would write something like that this is what they're using to convict me of a murder and abduction that I didn't commit shit like that how do you think your lawyer did horrible obviously

if you can't get an innocent man off of the crimes that he didn't commit I mean, how could you say he did anything other than horrible? You know? And, you know, it's easy to say in hindsight, and this attorney's been deceased for a long time. I'm not trying to talk bad about him.

You know, now he's gone. But he was trying, he's very established in that community. Well, it was right? At that time, he was an old guy. He'd been in. in that community for decades. The judge used to work for him. You know, he's connected to all these people

that are prosecuting attorneys, you know, as a detective, you know, it was a closed community almost, you know, of all these people, which included the defense attorneys. They all work together and they do stuff under the table. You know, all that shit was going on back then. I assume maybe that would be good. to have an attorney that has those connections, you know,

and, I mean, he tells me, hey, this judge, he used to work for me, you know. Okay, I guess that's a good thing, right? That means, you know, he's going to be fair or something? No. So anyway, I don't know. But there was too much chummy things going on. And when it came to him drilling down on things, he would say things like, well, I don't want to step on any toes.

And, you know, he's like he's walking on eggshells. And so I don't even know who he was working for. If he's working for them or he's working for me or what percentage of me and what percentage of them, I don't know. But it wasn't right. Do you think the prosecutors and the cops genuinely believed your side of the story? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And still decided to go after it. I think that, yes. There was two prosecuting attorneys. One of them was the, what they call them, the chief, you know, Commonwealth's attorney, district attorney, and the other ones under him. One of them was not in agreement with charging me with those crimes. One or both detectives at some point knew the

they were charging me and convicting me of crimes I didn't commit, no doubt in my mind. How much time goes by between your initial arrest and then the day you're sentenced? A sentence? Well, from when I was arrested until the trial was probably close to a year. And the conviction, when they convicted me, that's what was significant. the sentence. I mean, they gave me a life sentence, but they convicted me of two crimes I didn't commit. You know, what does it matter if it's a 20-year sentence or 100,000-freaking-year sentence? They convicted me in two crimes I didn't commit, you know? That's the blow. That's the monumental blow, myself, my family, you know. So I was sentenced sometimes after that. But it was a, you know, I don't know,

a year plus from when I was arrested to the trial in conviction. Are those charges an automatic life sentence, or was there a range of, say, like, 20 to life? Yeah, I think it was, yeah, I think you were actually both, like, 40 to life or something, you know. Well, like you were saying, what's the difference between, you know, 40 to them? Exactly. At time, I mean, how can I even wrap my brain around any of that stuff? I couldn't wrap my brain around spending a year in jail or prison. I couldn't wrap my brain around it.

So what was 82 years with no possibility of parole? What does that mean? Fuck, I don't know. I can't even imagine doing a year in jail or prison, you know. But I never accepted it. And I knew in my mind, I knew that at some point the truth would come out and that it would have to, right? at some point that truth has to come out

and that there would be a revelation that I was convicted of crimes that I didn't commit. And then there was. You know, in fact, like five years after the conviction or so, Billy Brown confessed to his family about what had actually happened

and how he, You know, not only had murdered an innocent young lady, but then he blamed it and framed his military comrade. I didn't find out about that for another two years. He confessed to his family and his attorney. His attorney told him to shut the hell up and don't tell nobody else. And so I didn't hear about it for two more years. And but he was, you know, he'd be.

I'm a Christian according to him and he was a different person and whatever, whatever, but he just, at that point it had come clean. Now, during that year of awaiting trial and then later sentencing, did all of the Navy Seal brothers you had abandoned you? Or would that come after when you got sentenced? No, there was no, from the day we were arrested, that was it. They were, you know, ordered not to have any. contact. And yeah,

it was a complete abandonment from day one. Now, you said earlier that the military, especially the seals, look after one another. We saw that with Billy, with the incidents he had.

Why do you think they didn't, in this case, was murdered just too far-fetched? It had such a profound effect on the whole community. that some person or individuals decided the best thing to do was to designate myself and him as trainees and to wash their hands of us and to treat us both the same. and as we were both as if we were both culpable of what had happened and to further to cooperate with the

prosecuting attorneys and to order others within the teams to cooperate with the prosecuting attorneys that's the stance they took that's what they decided to do and it was not the right decision. That wasn't the right decision. It wasn't the just decision, you know. Do you think the judge believed your side of the story? You said the judge? Yeah, the judge. Or was he against you? You know, I'm probably subjective if I consider whether he was against me. But I think if you look through my trial and look at the transcripts, I think it's an objective review of it. I think would show that he was absolutely against me. I mean, some of the statements he made were, you know, they weren't right.

They were pretty bad statements he made. And I was, I wasn't, it wasn't his decision. It was a jury's decision, you know. So now your sentence to life, where do they send you first, your first actual prison? Well, I went to a receiving center and I was there for maybe, maybe two months. a place called Southampton receiving. It was where they sent all the younger convicts. And from there, I went to my first prison proper,

which was Buckingham Correctional Center. And back then, that was like, you know, they didn't have supermax prisons back then, so that was like the top-level prison is a place like that. Buckingham and and there was you know real deal convicts in these prisons some of them you know they've been there from the certainly from the 70s you know maybe some from the 60s and so this is like a old different breed of convicts you know from the 60s 70s 80s that had been in prison for a while and hardened you know and and

That's where they sent me. How did you learn how to adapt in prison, especially when you first got there? Yeah. Well, I guess everybody learns adapt some way, but I would like to think that I simply observed and listened and was careful and so forth. And all that is probably true to an extent, but I was also young. so you know I certainly didn't do all the things correctly as the prison culture demanded yeah what do you mean by that

well I mean there's little things that you got to you know you don't know until you're in that environment of like how you're supposed to carry yourself what you're not supposed to do you know I've given an example recently is something as simple as you're walking down the tear and you don't cut your eyes and look into another man's cell. You know, that's just private space. And something as simple as that, that little glance in someone's cell could end up with someone getting stabbed, you know. So, you know, little things like that that are, or, you know, a civilian is not going to know some of these little details that may seem little.

but for some people they are extremely significant. Did you gravitate to a certain type of group in prison or how did that work for you? Yeah, there wasn't, I think it is, I believe it's pretty fortunate for me at the time that there was no, believe it or not, back in the 90s, there was no gangs in the Virginia prison system. So if there was like, you know, I don't know that some states, they're like, or in the federal system, I think there's just a ton of gangs and groups. It's just like you're almost automatically, I have to be part of some of that. But, you know, from that era in Virginia, there just wasn't any gangs. In fact, you had like kind of loose Tidewater mob and the Richmond mob and the D.C. mob that

were in the prison system. You did have a group of, they were a motorcycle gang called the Pagans, and they had a lot of power within the prison system. But they were a legit, like motorcycle gang from the outside. They just had a lot of their members incarcerated, I guess. And so they had a lot of power. And then, you know, you had to kind of,

I had to navigate around the rich, but there wasn't there wasn't even the bloods and the crypts and you know none of that was even around at the time not that I knew of but then they started to accumulate or or manifest uh during the coming years so as far as gravitating towards groups uh no nothing official there was nothing official so um and I'm glad that I wasn't put in a position where I felt like I had to be part of any kind of a gang. And, you know, I was just released this year. And today, there's a lot of games in the prison system.

But, you know, as these gangs started forming, number one, I never felt a necessity that I had to join any of them. And the way I carried myself, I was fine without, And with that said, I had a good rapport with a lot of people, and that spanned all kinds of different gang members from different gangs and groups and religions and whatever walks of life. So I got along well, you know, generally speaking, I got along well with a lot of people, diversity of people,

including the staff. You know, I didn't get no staff, no problems. And so, and they respected me, you know. for the most part, the staff respected me and incarcerated guys respected me. What about when you first got there? How did people treat you, especially being that age with those types of charges and against a woman? You know, I rarely had issues when it came to that. The age thing, probably more than anything, that, you know, when you're young, 20 years old, coming in a prison system with back in the

90s with hardened criminals that's been there for decades, you know, you've got to kind of grow up fast. I mean, it's not like I was a child coming from the military and the training I'd gone through. So I could defend myself where need be. But, you know, there's a lot of manipulation in the prison system and tons of violence at the time, especially. And so really, I just I just had to, I navigated that and, you know, was respectful to people. And I didn't involve myself in those things, which will often, you know, get someone hemmed up in some issues, right? So I wasn't down with the homosexuals. I wasn't down with the drug scene.

I wasn't down with really much, you know, I kind of walked a line that I tried to really keep myself physically and intellectually stable, mentally stable. And so that was a priority for me throughout most of my incarceration. And so keeping that as a priority, help me steer away from any of the negativity that's generally seen in the prison system. When you first started telling people your story, both maybe guards or inmates, Did they believe you or did they believe you? Most of them probably believe me, yeah.

You know, as long as I was incarcerated, I come across very few people that were innocent and, you know, relatively few people that claimed truly to be innocent. You know, there's a lot of people that claim, and I'm sure that are, like over-sentenced, overcharged, as much as there are that are under-sentenced and undercharged, because probably most people, you know,

maybe you could say most people in prison, they're only in prison for the crimes that they were convicted of or that they know about because a lot of guys committed a lot of crime. You know, they've heard a lot of people who have committed a lot of crimes, and they're in there just for the crimes. that they were convicted of, right? But I did come across a small handful of guys who were wrongfully convicted,

and I was able to see a few of those become exonerated. And the guys, there's a lot of people in the Virginia Department Corrections who know that I was wrongfully convicted, and a lot. and, you know, I was or am very well known in that system, you know,

but Billy Brown's in that system. And even though he spent the first few years in that prison system trying to shift blame, he's, you know, from the year, literally the year 2000, forward. He's just been, he's a, you know, Christian, he runs with the Christian groups, and he's telling the truth of what happened. So, and people come across, I mean, you know how it is in prison. I mean, the so-called inmate.com, you know, information gets around in all the prison systems and all the prisons in the system. And so there's enough people that I was around,

and I guess there's probably enough people that he has been around combined. I mean, that's a lot of people. And I guess all that, just to say, a lot of guys in the Virginia Department of Corrections know that I was wrongfully convicted. Even though you were sentenced to life, those first few years, did you actually think you would end up spending over 30 years based on appeals and knowing your true innocence? No, no. I mean, you know, I was naive, I was young, you know, had no involvement with the judicial system prior, but no, like I said, I expected almost any day. You know, in 2008, I went back to court for the, what's called, the writ of actual innocence. And, you know, at this point, Billy Brown has, um, Not only he's confessed, he's written affidavits about what he had done, apologize, beg for forgiveness for me and others. And in 2008, he was able to testify at the same court where I was convicted.

And that court and judge ruled that he was telling the truth. Specifically, he's credible in that he's credible in that he, acted independently in murdering the victim and that I had no role in the murder or in the restraining of the victim. And they used them terms because I was convicted of murder and abduction, which should have completely absolved me of these two crimes. That information from that same court where I was convicted in Virginia Beach was given to the Court of Appeals. In fact, they requested that information and they received it. It couldn't have been any more favorable to me.

The Court of Appeals ruled me, and it was unprecedented at the time, they ruled me actually innocent of these two crimes. And they convicted me of the one misdemeanor. This is 2009, right, from 2008 into 2009. 2008 into 2009. I was expecting to be released within some days, if not hours. My family is popping champagne, and I'm giving away all my stuff. I'm going home.

Finally, it's been recognized what had happened, and I'm exonerated. And, you know, the only next steps are I'm going to go home, back to my family. these people are going to have to pay me for what they've done. And then they put the brakes on it. The Attorney General appeals that decision. He had the right to appeal it. And so I don't go home. In fact, now I'm going through these appeal process

that they're appealing my release. And, you know, it went up through the courts. the higher courts into the spring court of Virginia and my release was overturned on the technicality of a single word they used a single they argued over a single

freaking word my whole life sat in the balance over a word that they wrangled back and forth and it's absolutely unbelievable that this is what it had come down to a legal argument over a word to either keep me in prison forever

or to let me out and exonerate me. What was that word? Restraint. That's it? The word restraint. So when the court where I was convicted ruled that that I had no role

in the murder or in the restraining of the victim. And then the judges that ruled me actually innocent. The judges at the Court of Appeals ruled me actually innocent, which they had never done that before. The Supreme Court had been ruling

some people actually innocent because of DNA. I've got no DNA in my case. It's non-biological. Court of Appeals now has jurisdiction of that writ of actual innocence. And so one of the judges, one of the judges came up with a new theory in my case in order to circumvent Billy Brown's credible confession that he acted independently, and I had no role, to circumvent that credible conviction, which is still a fact today of my

case, it's not like a theory, it's a fact. So this judge says, Well, okay, those are facts, but a jury could still believe that, though he didn't have any role in the murder or in the restraining the victim, a jury could believe that there was still an abduction without restraint. And so this became this legal argument. Is it possible to abduct somebody without restraining them of their liberties? restraining them, period. And they kept saying, well, an abduction doesn't require a physical restraint. Well, the judge that ruled that I had no role, had no role in the murder. No role in the murder.

I'm sitting here still convicted of a murder. I had no role in the murder. And I had no role in restraining the victim. But I don't know if this makes any sense, but they created a new theory. never tested before in front of a jury and just said, well, a jury could believe, which was the standard at that time, 2008, 9,

a jury could believe that the simple act of walking from the bar out to the car, that a jury could believe that that was an abduction without restraint by deception. that wasn't the theory that I was convicted under. The prosecuting attorneys, who later even expressed this very blatantly to the media, they had to sell the jury on the idea that we, me, and Billy Brown,

had taken Jennifer away to another location and that she was killed somewhere else. That's the only way to get that abduction charge, right? But, you know, 15 years later almost, they created a new theory and say, well, okay, that didn't happen. But a jury could believe that just when Dusty and Jennifer walked to the parking lot to wait her girlfriends, that a jury could believe that was an abduction by deception. And then if a jury could believe that, they could believe that when Billy Brown killed, this girl, that I would be still guilty of the abduction by deception, and hence also the murder. Does that make sense? But then shouldn't at the very least it just be remanded for a new

trial? They won't do it. At that point in time, shouldn't they have, though? They wouldn't. First of all, it would be great if they did. If they were to try to remand it to a new trial, they wouldn't even have charged me with the crimes again, because they know it's impossible to convict me on crimes that the perpetrator has fully explained what he did, right? All the evidence is there. There's no way they could convict me today in a court of the murder and abduction when there's zero evidence of it. So they're not going to allow me to go back in a court for a trial.

They don't even allow that in Virginia. Now, couldn't you appeal, take that to the Supreme Court at that point? time once the Supreme Court in Virginia ruled? No. Isn't there some type of thing? U.S. Supreme Court? Yeah, the U.S. Now, unfortunately, this was a state writ, and there is no remedy into the federal

courts. None at all? No. Is that just by Virginia law or? Listen, I don't know. It's just, again, it's a state writ that will not reach into the federal courts. So when the Supreme Court handed that down in Virginia, it just, your original sentence got reinstated for life. Yeah, that's right. How'd that make you feel at that point?

I mean, God, I mean, myself and my family, we're on this roller coaster of, you know, and this is a 30-year roller coaster. I'm down here, I'm up here, you know, but this was, I've finally been recognized. Billy Brown's confession was ruled truthful. I've been ruled to be actually innocent. That's different than saying not guilty. You can be not guilty for a lot of different reasons. Actually innocent is something totally different. And that's what I was ruled.

The first person in the state of Virginia to be ruled actually innocent without any biological evidence. And my whole case was circumstantial anyway, you know. So how did I feel? God, it was horrible. I went from, like I said, I was giving my stuff away in prison. I'm going home finally.

And then next thing you know, I'm not. Had you talked to the victim's family at all over those years? I reached out a couple times via handwritten letters. You know, I think my family, my mother has attempted also. I have not spoken to them whatsoever. You know, in hindsight, I shouldn't even have done that because, you know, that can be something that's triggering for people who have been victimized or the families of victims and, you know, survivors, which is something I've learned over the years. And I've taken victim advocacy courses and victim impact courses.

And I've even created rehabilitation programs that are victim focused and centered and so forth. So, you know, I learned over the years that that's, you know, that's not the right thing to do. I think that any of the friends and family of Jennifer Evans know that I'm open to speaking with them and to, you know, if there's anything I can help to, you know, to get them, if there's any way that I can help them understand what it actually happened to their friend or their daughter, or their loved one, you know, I'm open to doing that. you know um and i've been open to that but uh it's not it's not appropriate for me to try to reach out to them if that makes sense while you're in there waiting for that day to you know prove that

you're you're innocent and to get released did you think life would just return back to normal or did you know that life was forever going to be altered regardless so going back to when they ruled me actually innocent and i was about to be released I don't know. Of course everything is different. You know, I mean, hell, I was, I'd just gotten into, in the military and the seal teams. And the day I was arrested, I knew that that was, you know, forever altered. Yeah. So, you know, of course, there was nothing that was going to be normal from that day forward ever again.

And it's not normal today, you know, even though I'm out. You know, I was, I was sentenced to 82 years in prison with no possibility of parole. Obviously, a life sentence. And I would still be in there right now if it wasn't for a parole board, and specifically one individual on a parole board that delved into my case that had been, you know, why he decided to actually look into my case, I can't say, but this one person was he was a prosecuting attorney, a commonwealth attorney of Virginia, for 47 years. And he was a parole board member, and he looked into my case.

He didn't just gloss over it or whatever. he actually looked into my case, which apparently is something that rarely happens, you know. But regardless, he looked into my case and he was able to see legally and morally and ethically the wrong that was done to me. And he had the courage, which is unprecedented in Virginia for a problem. parole board member to have the courage to openly and publicly state that he believes, from his professional opinion, that I was wrongfully convicted and that I should have been convicted of the misdemeanor, and that I should be let out of prison. And if it wasn't for that, I'd still be sitting there.

What year was this into your sentence that he first started to look into this? And how does that work when... It was a year ago. You're not eligible for parole. How does that work? Yeah. It was a year ago, like right now. Yeah.

It was a year ago in, like, October. So that was, what, 31 years in? Yeah. 30. It was 30 plus years in. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's kind of a longer story on how it is that I've got, I'm sentenced to, you know,

a life sentence, no possibility of parole. And then I get paroled, you know. It's a longer. story, but it involves a law change that impacted me because just circumstances that I had a jury trial. It was just after they abolished parole and the judges at the time were not allowed, not allowed to tell juries that there was no parole. And at some point thereafter, I guess it was probably the Supreme Court of Virginia realized that, It's a little bit unfair that, you know, they just abolished parole,

and then the judges aren't allowed to tell juries that there was no parole. So they changed that. And then they said those people who had the jury trial during this window of time in which the judge was not allowed to tell the jury there was no parole, those people, and it's only a couple hundred people, who are still incarcerated to fit that little window there, they made those people parole eligible. They didn't say they're going to make parole.

They just made them parole eligible, right? So all of a sudden, in the year 2020, I became parole eligible. And then it was a matter of, because, you know, in 2008, 2009, they ruled me actually innocent. It took that away from me. It was complete by 2010 and 2011. And here I am now, 2011, still trying to figure out, you know, who, what governor will look into my case or what else can happen.

There's really, that's it. Either the governor can grant me a clemency or they rule me actual innocent, through the writ of actual innocence. There's no other way. There's no other way. and I don't have another way to get into the writ of actual innocence because it was a one-shot deal, you know, even though they changed the standard of the writ.

So as I was saying earlier, it was, well, a jury could believe this, that, or the other, the general assembly of Virginia realized that's an impossible burden. How can you get over a burden in which, which you can just say a jury could believe. They can believe anything. So they modified that. Now the rate of actual innocence is more of the volition, like what would a jury do?

Not what could a jury do, but what would a jury do? So now it's under this new standard of review. What would a jury, you know, do? The same person that created this new theory on me about what a jury could do during that rate of actual innocence? that same judge later expanded about and explained this new law change and said this totally, I'm trying to remember the right verbiage, but she basically said this totally changes our review of innocent, wrongful conviction cases and allows us a more, I don't know, a more rational or a reasonable way to look at these cases.

but I still wasn't, I wasn't able to get back into court. Even though they changed it, I couldn't go back to a writ of actual innocence. Until much later, now, they changed again to where I can refile rid of actual innocence. However, it has to be newly discovered evidence. Billy Brown's credible confession, which is still credible, that's not newly discovered evidence. Now it's old evidence. and I have to have some newly discovered evidence that proves that I was wrongfully convicted.

Does that make sense? What do you think you thought about the most over the course of those 30 years? Is it replaying that night? Is it replaying even maybe joining the seals to begin with? What do you think haunted you the most? No, I'm not sure I was haunted. I'm not sure I was haunted.

Frustrated. You know, I was very frustrated. I spent years, I'm, like, greatly frustrated. And with, I got to admit, I mean, a burning hatred, you know. So I'm frustrated that, you know, there's daily frustrations, as you know, when you're sitting in prison. I mean, it's hard, you know. Sometimes it's harder than others.

Some places are worse than others, but it's a struggle, you know, like every day. And that comes with just daily frustration and hardships. But, you know, I also had a, I had a burning hatred that really hasn't abated for what Billy has done to me and my family, and let alone, obviously, to Jennifer. and her family and our friends and community

for what he did to me and my family was just inside some forgivable you know and that you know so anyway I guess I sat with that hatred and those frustrations

for years but there's also you know a lot of that ire is directed at the authorities the ones who knew whether it was early on or later that I was wrongfully convicted

and they've done nothing they've got no they're fucking cowards they're cowards and they either want to protect their little reputation or their egos or you know the system you know

I've come to realize that the justice system requires trust you know the people have to trust the justice system. You got to trust the justice. But what happens when there's been, you know, screw up? What happens when it's obvious that they got it wrong? And again, I've known quite a few people that were wrongfully convicted and later exonerated. A couple not exonerated yet.

I know a couple of guys sitting in prison right now in Virginia, who knows outside of Virginia, and that's just a couple that I know. And there's no doubt in my mind that they were wrongfully convicted. It's not a whole lot. It's not a great percentage of the population. But I know of two in Virginia that I believe are wrongfully convicted. And I'm not some idiot. You know, when I talk to these people, and I've been.

gone through it, so I know. If someone's claiming that they didn't commit a crime that they're convicted of and imprisoned of, I mean, to me, that's significant. And so I have that conversation with them. And I dig in with them. And I dig into the facts of their case and the facts of evidence and what is suggested. and so forth and so on. And there's not a lot of people, you know,

they're just sitting around and talking about they were, you know, there's plenty of people that bitching complain, and they, you know, they're always going to complain about things and the food and the this and that. And it's just, prison's full of people who are just complaining. And I get it because it sucks. But for people who are fighting, they're really fighting because they were wrongfully convicted.

you know, there's not a lot of those. You know, there's plenty of people that are going to, you know, I've got a file appeal and, you know, that and this, but then the peels are over and then what? Are you fighting still? Or if you finally resign in the fact that, you know, you're convicted and, you know, you fucked up, you're convicted and you've got to do your time and whatever,

and it sucks. But I don't even know where I'm going with this. What was the initial question? No, you answered it. What do you think kept you alive those 30-plus years in prison? You know, hope is one thing that kept me moving, you know. And I say hope as in I never resigned myself to the fact that they were going to put me away forever for something I didn't do. and so I just, I wasn't going to resign myself to it, and I couldn't, you know.

And more and more people had become aware of my wrongful conviction, and that was, you know, kind of empowering and helped keep me going. But I also had family and friends and supporters, advocates who came into my life and that also recognized the injustice and were fighting for me, you know, And still today they're fighting. Really good people. The only thing, you know, the only thing that drew them to me and the only thing keeps them moving, trying to help me and others is the fact that they cannot stand injustices.

You know, the unfairness or injustices steams, it hurts, and they want to help remedy that. You know, so those people in my life help keep me going. you know. Also, I think, you know, kind of the same things that got me through seal training is maybe just not so much something I learned in training, but the same thing that got me through the training is the same thing that got me through that long, long prison sentence. Was your first day of freedom what you imagined it to be?

Uh, no, no. No, because, you know, I didn't, I think in a lot of ways I didn't allow myself to really contemplate too much, like, uh, things on the outside. Because, um, it was, it just seemed like something I, it was unnecessary for me to waste my time on, to just sit there and just, uh, fantasize about what it's going to be like. and, you know, of course, I guess it's normal for anybody to do some of that, but what did I envision on my first day? You know, some of it was, was that, and that is I was surrounded by people who care about me, and, you know, I had people that flew in from all over the States and even

out of the country to be present for my release, and I'm super grateful for those people, and they're still in my life, and they're awesome people. And, you know, we celebrated. And it was a great celebration. But in a lot of ways, you know, that celebration hasn't abated. It was a beautiful night. It was overwhelming for me, I'll be honest. I was on this huge piece of property up in the mountains of Virginia.

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful area. and, you know, a friend come down from New York, and he brought some dry-age New York strips and special charcoal's, and he, you know, cooked him up and had some rib-eye. I wanted meat, you know. It had been so long deprived of, like, any kind of quality meat, and they had all that meat rock, and that just, I mean,

see, you can't eat that stuff, man. It's just, like, highly processed. meat product that it'll it'll kill you you eat too much that stuff I mean it's it give you colon cancer and whatever else I couldn't eat it for years I just wouldn't touch it and smell bad and you know so I craved like real food like whole real food as soon as I got out my family had some big fruit baskets and some nuts and stuff in the car and I was eating on some of that right out the door but everything was just like everything was so much you know just being in a car and just in driving I'm like oh my god and

we're going like 30 mile an hour I'm like I'm looking at these cars and you know it's like it just everything with the stimulus of everything was a lot to take in the smells and sights and colors and the movement and And the people, you know, just, I mean, you know, I was surrounded by caring people, but there was just a lot to take in. Who stuck by you all those years? Number one, I would mention my mother, you know. My mother had fought hard, you know, she fought for some of those law changes in Virginia. She had no family in Virginia, but she would fly out or drive out to Virginia from.

from here in Indiana, often, you know, as much as she could. And she's, you know, I got three brothers and a sister that she also had to be a mother too, you know. And but she would, so she was, you know, and I'm calling her a lot and so she just really fought hard for me and she was in a lot of ways really just incarcerated with me. You know, it's unfortunate and I, you know,

I certainly didn't want it like that, but she was. And it was inevitable as not just of one of her children, but she also knew very, very clearly the injustice it was done to me. What about your father and your siblings? What happened to them? My stepfather passed away in 2012. and my father passed away in 2020 and my grandmother passed away in 2020 and my grandmother passed away in 2020. None of them got to see me as a free person again.

My siblings are out and about, you know, they're around. And again, I have cousins and. aunts and uncles and others. But, you know, I lost a few family members. I mean, obviously 31 years. I mean, it's inevitable, right? And it's difficult, you know, it's a difficult losing family period.

But when you're in that environment in a concrete box and trying to process grief and all that, it's just so distorted and it's messed up. What sense or feeling do you think prison took away from you that you got to experience again when you got out? Did you say what sense? Yeah, sense or feeling an emotion. You know, maybe it's the feeling of love or physical touch or... Well, definitely all that because I say all that.

You know, in prison, it's like the only touch, you know, I'll just speak for my own experience, but the only kind of touch of another person really is like buttoning up against someone on the basketball court or, you know, something like that in sports or something. You know, men generally are not really touchy-feely people towards each other. You know, a punch to the shoulder or something might be a touch. You know. And then there was contact visits that I would have periodically where I could give, you know, a family member or a friend a hug. and not much more than that. But also, I got to mention this,

I talked early on about my love for the water and to go all those decades without being able to submerge myself. And that first time when I jumped in a pool because it was still I mean I jumped in a creek but it was like maybe three foot deep when I first got out there was snow on the bank

and I was like it don't matter I'm getting into water somewhere I'm getting in the water the closest thing was a creek and it was three foot deep I jumped in it and it was freezing but it was nice but thereafter then I was able to actually

submerge myself and jump into an indoor pool and my mother actually filmed that and it was like a I mean it may sound over the top

but it was literally it was like a religious experience for me just to float

and to submerge and to be back in the water you know so that's something but also to be you know

just amongst the trees be amongst the trees I mean I haven't touched a tree in goddamn forever um so And I missed the woods, you know, the forest.

I spent a lot of time in my youth out in the forest and whether hunting or just playing around or whatever. But I had something I really missed as being amongst the trees. What's been the hardest thing to adjust to? You know, it's unfortunate because it's like I can't have a normal adjustment. into society because I'm sitting here across from you with a big-ass ankle monitor hanging on my ankle. And I'm under conditions that are atrocious. And trying to adjust back to society is one thing.

You know, all the advanced communication or technology. that now exists that wasn't a thing 30 plus years ago. You know, and just adapting to societal changes and what's, you know, how people act towards each other or move or maneuver

and, you know, the things that they do is normal everyday life and the way they, you know, are in spaces that they're totally used to and I'm not used to. Adjusting to those things is one thing. thing, you know, I think I'm doing just fine with most of those things or all of them. I had a little bit of, I needed a little bit of time to be around, like, crowds and stuff

and more people or spaces like, you know, just, you know, walking into a big box store, like a, you know, a big grocery store or something, that's a lot. I mean, that's a lot. But I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm overwhelmed, but it's not like. having a negative impact on me. You know what I mean? I'm able to transition or process or acclimate to it all.

Like, God damn, I'm under these conditions, man. That's like horrible, horrible. And I feel like at any moment I'm going to like inadvertently, you know, cross one of these conditions and they're just going to throw me right back in jail. Worst case scenario, how long are the conditions in parole in place for?

time. The rest of my life? I don't know. Worst case scenario is I spend the rest of my life in prison. But that didn't happen. And nor is this, this, uh, these conditions. It's not going to happen. Um, I'm still fighting, man. And it's my like chief priority, um, to become exonerated, to get, become officially exonerated. How can someone help you today? You know, I think a couple things maybe. I found that when people share my story and even on this platform here and talking to you and people hearing what had happened to me and, you know, and realizing the injustice of it, it's messed up.

You know what I mean? It's really messed up. But sharing my story has connected. me to more people that have been able to help in different ways. And right now, I've had some communication with a couple of attorneys and law firms that, you know, I need a law firm to help me out to, you know, carry that ball over the go post and get me exonerated. I have all the evidence there.

It's all there. I've got advocates who were like legal geniuses and they put it all together. Digital files of, you know, overviews and testimony and all this evidence is it's all there waiting to just hand over to the right law firm. But I do need that help. And so that's one thing, you know. It may require, you know, be nice of everybody work. pro bono and the people that have worked for me I shouldn't say that people who have worked on my behalf

over the years have generally worked pro bono and that's only because once they look into my case and they realize there's a grave injustice they just they find it in their heart that they wanted help and they know I don't have the money hell I've been sitting in prison for 30 years

you know where would I have money from I was making like, what, 27 cent an hour or something, you know, in prison. So it would be nice if, you know, if I got a law firm, they're working pro bono. And they might, or they might not. You know, I might need, you know, some legal fees or funds to help out. So I guess that could help if needed. but otherwise, I don't know. Sharing my story.

Somebody to help me get the legal team that I need to get me exonerated. You know, I don't know. They can find my story at the at Free Dusty Turner social media. And there's a lot of fake ones.

They don't even make sense to me. Why the hell they got people faking me and my voice, especially on TikTok, I've heard some of these audio, AI audio things of my voice. It's creepy as hell. You know, and all they're doing is trying to make money off people. It's messed up. And they're doing it too. They're really, they're making contact with people.

And generally, I think it's like, you know, maybe not always going to say older people, but I think it's anybody. And they're scamming them out of money. And these people think they're communicating with me. And then they have these AI voice things and my voice. It's just absolutely nuts. It's nuts. But that at Free Dusty Turner is the only social media that is run by my close advocates. And freudesty.com website, also run by my advocates.

And there's a link tree in there somewhere, I think it's called. And then, you know, linked all that stuff. Anyway, you know, to learn or share more about my stories, it's all there, I guess. And, yeah. How do you still stay positive, you know, in the moment? Yeah. Well, listen, we got to, we only have this one life to live. and what are you going to do?

Am I supposed to just walk around, moping around, be depressed and angry and pissed off and allow that negativity just to hover over around me? I don't have time for it, you know what I mean? I spent all that time in prison, and I got life to live. I got stuff to do. People see places to go.

I got stuff. I'm trying to move and do stuff. And that's not going to happen if I'm sitting around sulking about what. what was done to me. And, you know, I do want accountability. You know, there should be accountability for what was done. But that's not going to, you know, slow me down.

It's not good. It's my disposition or my character. I'm going to be who I am. And part of that is not just going to sit around, be negative complaining and all that shit. I ain't got time for it. I spent too much time in prison. And now I'm out and I'm trying to live.

I got a lot of things to do, to make up for. When you look at your situation as a whole, and even though it was wrong, what was done for you, what was done to you? What was the good that came out of it? What have you learned about yourself, discovered, or what type of person did you become that only this situation could have created?

man you know since we don't know how things could have gone for me otherwise we don't know where I'd be otherwise it's kind of hard to say in some of that which I've learned over the years about myself or other things I don't know how much of that is from the natural you know maturation process of any human. You know, you mature, you get more wise, you understand things, and how much of it was directly attributable to my incarceration. I'm not going to say my incarceration brought anything good, nothing. Period. I took, I took advantage of things around me and the scant resources that I had and did stuff with. with them and use them to my advantage and learn.

And I spent day upon day upon day reading and learning and studying. Prison didn't do that for me. You know what I mean, I did that for myself. And whatever I've gained or gleaned during my time in prison, it's not because it or the sentence or the prisons did something for me, They didn't do nothing for me.

Everything I've gained, I've done for myself. Well, Dusty, I appreciate you allowing me to come out here to interview you. This has been a really incredible interview, and, you know, I'll voluntarily use all my resources I have to help you to and connect you with the right people and do the best I can to help you. Well, I appreciate that, Ian. I really do. And, you know, I hope that this experience coming down here to my hometown is enjoyable.

somewhat and I appreciate your, you know, talking with me and offering that. It's kind of you. I'm going to say this one last thing, too, is that I'm working now for an organization called Veterans, Healing Veterans from the Inside Out. And we're mostly working with justice involved veterans. and but for me that also includes potentially wrongfully convicted veterans and I believe there are some out there and there has been there's been exonerated veterans and exonerated people period and wrongfully convicted people period

but I've using this position also to start looking into a handful of cases that I'm aware of that are potentially wrongfully convicted veterans. And I do have a list of people who, you know, it's a lot of work, but I'm looking into some of them. And, but aside from, you know, that's one part of my duties that I'm doing for veterans healing veterans. But it's a great organization. And we're helping, you know, we're helping justice involved veterans.

and in a myriad of ways. So that's something else, you know, people could look into. Again, it's a great organization. And we're trying to help people get the feedback on the ground and to move in the right direction. A lot of these people have PTSD. And, you know, as you know, suicide rates amongst veterans extremely high.

So we're working in those. realms and although I'm just getting started there I'm trying to find my path and how I can best serve through there too awesome