Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a New Jersey Correctional Officer — Here's Why I Walked Away After 3 Years | Laquan Rouse

Episode Date: September 9, 2026

Laquan Rouse grew up in New Jersey associating with gang members without ever joining, was a star athlete who had every reason to believe sports would define his future — until he got shot three times his senior year of high school and had to decide who he was actually going to become. He straightened his life out and became a New Jersey correctional officer, spending three years working the floor inside Trenton State Prison and other New Jersey facilities where he earned respect from inmates, witnessed corrupt guards, and accumulated funny stories and hard truths. Then he walked away voluntarily — and is now sharing why. _____________________________________________ #CorrectionalOfficer #PrisonGuard #PrisonStories #TrueCrime #NewJersey _____________________________________________ Thank you to FACTOR for sponsoring this episode: Head to https://factormeals.com/lockedin50off and use code lockedin50off to get 50 percent off and 1 free breakfast item per box for 1 year, while supplies last until 10/31/2026. _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Crazy Smuggling Story 00:14 Meet Laquan Roose 00:37 Growing Up in Jersey City 01:13 Family and Upbringing 02:00 Only One in Law Enforcement 02:35 Views on Cops as a Kid 03:04 High School Troubles 04:36 Switching Schools 05:01 Family in Education 05:26 Why Getting Into Trouble? 06:00 Dad's Work Ethic 07:19 Struggle vs. Discipline 08:00 Getting Shot 08:51 Gang or Personal Beef? 10:49 Out at 2 AM 12:18 The Shooting Details 14:30 Hospital and Family 15:27 The Pursuit Continues 16:36 Getting Help 17:33 Wanting Revenge 19:45 Cops Investigate 20:17 Leaving the Hospital 22:03 No Retaliation 23:33 Parents Want Cooperation 24:18 Back to School and Football 27:46 Normal for the City? 28:50 Block Culture 29:18 Family Gang Involvement 29:48 Avoiding Gangs 31:03 Junior College 31:57 Impact of Environment 32:14 Protecting Younger Brother 34:01 Fixing the Community 35:13 Sponsor: Factor 36:52 After Junior College 37:27 Getting into Corrections 39:05 The Pay 39:38 Family Reaction 40:52 The Academy 42:14 Training Scenarios 44:04 Fighting Training 44:19 Dropout Rate 44:48 First Prison Experience 46:00 Super Cops 46:47 Street Guys Turned COs 47:08 Being a Chill Cop 47:25 Trenton State Prison 48:28 First Witnessed Events 49:24 Keeping Things Under Wraps 50:21 Nothing to Lose 52:55 Earning Respect 55:50 Transfer to Rahway 56:11 Past Follows You 56:55 Friend Serving 75 Years 58:39 How Other Officers Treated Him 01:00:13 Corruption Among Officers 01:01:21 Fetty Wap Situation 01:03:41 Young Officers and Old Heads 01:04:07 Respected Inmate: Snowball 01:05:52 Handling Snitches 01:08:00 Craziest Check-In 01:10:58 K2 and Its Effects 01:15:41 Cell Searches 01:17:07 Strangest Things in Cells 01:19:35 Cell Phones in Prison 01:20:42 Food and Contraband 01:23:48 Officer Downtime 01:25:36 Cell Assignments 01:26:34 Shift Differences 01:27:36 Control Over Inmates 01:29:08 Sex Offenders 01:31:19 Worst Part of the Job 01:32:30 Squat and Cough 01:33:51 Female Officers Hookups 01:35:11 Max B Encounter 01:35:21 Expecting a Long Career 01:35:48 Why He Left 01:42:48 Life After Resigning 01:43:43 What He Does Now 01:44:42 Misconceptions About Prisons 01:46:04 Why Experience Both Worlds? 01:48:00 Final Thoughts _____________________________________________ To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka  

Crazy what you will see. One time I seen a guy and he was a known guy for smuggling, they said he had like six oranges in his butt. And I'm like, what? You're doing that to smuggle phones and drugs? Like, this is crazy. That's Laquan Ruse. After surviving being shot three times as a teenager,

he turned his life around and became a New Jersey correctional officer. He spent three years working inside Trenton State Prison, where he earned the respective inmates, witnessed corruption from fellow officers, and eventually made the decision to walk away. Where did you grow up, Lequan? Jersey City, New Jersey. Okay, what was your upbringing like?

If anybody knows Jersey City, you know it's tough. It's real tough out there. So my upbringing was pretty decent, wasn't bad. Come from a two-family household. Simple. Wasn't much drama or anything like that. It was up until I began to dish out on my own. That's when everything started happening with the drama and stuff.

But other than that, Jersey City is a pretty decent place. What do your parents do for work? Mom, a teacher. I've been a teacher for 39 years. So everybody in the city knows her. Dad worked for UPS and also security. Did you get to have her as a teacher at all? No.

Okay. They don't let that happen or just work now? They do. But she was in a different district than me. So never had as a teacher. And she teaches specialized, so. Okay. Any siblings?

Yes. Seven of us. Seven, wow. Seven. All full siblings? Yep. All from the same dad, yep. Awesome.

All in the same household. So you can imagine that. Big age differences or all? Yes. It was like a 15-year gap. So she had three and then took a break and then they had another three back-to-back. Two sets of twins and then another my youngest brother. Were you the only one that went into a lot?

law enforcement type career? The only one. The only one of my family. Why do you think that is? A bunch of my cousins, you know, was incarcerated before. My dad wanted to, but they had my brother at 16. So he said that took a lot away from his, like, you know, dreams. He had to get a job and start making money right away.

So, you know, again, it's a law enforcement for me. I kind of figured I did it for him and my parents. I wanted to make them happy. But, yeah, nobody else in my family. family. They don't even like cops. What did you think of prison and police and law enforcement in general as a kid? I never expected me to be an officer, ever. I didn't really have a thing for cops. It wasn't as bad as it is now on the news and everything being shown and stuff like that, but I just

never thought I'll be a cop or officer or correction officer. I thought I was going to play football, if not football. I even thought about being a fight. firefighter, but never a cop ever. How were you in high school? Did you stay out of trouble? No. Did well in school, but stayed in trouble. And I think a lot of that came from me changing school so much.

I went to four different high schools. My first high school, I should have stayed there. I was at a Catholic school. And I think it was called Queen of Peace in Belleville, New Jersey, or North Islander, New Jersey. And it was away from Jersey. I didn't know any of my classmates, so it was a new scenery for me. I should have stayed there. Once my parents pulled me from that school because the location was just too far for me to get there,

they put me in public school. I went to Ferris High School, stayed there for a year and a half, got kicked out. Got kicked out, sent to a program for the remainder of the school year and the rest of the summer. So finished the program, after I finished the program, I thought I was going back to Ferris High School. They told me, no, you got to go to your home school, which is now Snyder High School. If you're from Jersey City and you're familiar with Snyder High School, you know that school is very dangerous. It's like you can't wear book bags inside. You got to go through a metal detector.

You got to get basically patted down before you enter the building. Now, this is school we're talking about. This is not jail. This is not anything like that. I went to Snyder High School for about, I'm going to say, nine months. And I got transferred out of there. finished that county prep. So, but the four different high schools, high school was really, it was just, it was messy for me.

It was real messy. Did you know anyone when you'd switch schools each time? I knew everybody. So at the first school, I didn't know anyone. But as soon as I got the Ferris, all of my homeboys was there, all of my boys from grammar school was there. And I was a star football athlete, so I knew everybody. And that's why it didn't work well. How do your parents feel about you having to continuously switch schools?

Mom was a little embarrassed because my grandmother's a principal in Jersey City as well. My granddad was a professor. My aunts are teachers. So my whole school is in education. So if I'm getting in trouble in school, the first thing they do is call my mother's school. So now her principal has to call her, get her up there to come get me from school. And it just was a bunch of, like, embarrassment. I could tell.

I could tell. What do you think it was for you? Why did you keep getting into trouble? Honestly, I think a lot of it was me just being young and dumb, trying to control my life and not following or having a mentor at the time. I didn't have any mentor. I didn't have no one looking out for me. I didn't have big brothers.

My brother was only a year older than me. So he was doing the same thing I was doing. We didn't have no guys that was older that was like, yo, listen, this is the wrong way to go about this. Like, do it this way or, you know, to school. us on the game. I was just free fall doing what I wanted to do. Why do you think your dad wasn't that figure for you? Yeah, it worked so much. Great man. I tell him all the time. I love him to death. And some of the lessons that he tried to instill in me, I know they stuck in my head, but at the

time I wasn't just, I wasn't grasping it. I wasn't grabbing on it at that moment. Like, he worked so much. He worked three jobs. So he would come home from his, from his, overnight shift at about 7 a.m. He's, while we getting ready for school, he's getting his self-prepared to drop us off at school and to drop my mother off at work. And then he comes back home, take a nap, and go right back to his second job at 2 p.m. And the afternoon to 10. And then he works another weekend job.

So this is how he's been going my whole life. So he's there present in the household, but it wasn't much discipline from him because he couldn't. He would probably, you know, talk to my mom and she'll have to. you know, tell us what he said, but it's, it's different when you got the man telling you to your face to do something different than your mom. When you look back on it now, do you, do you think it's better to struggle financially in a family and have that, you know, real discipline and support from a father or a mother? Or do you think it's better to be in, say, your situation where you

have a little bit more freedom, but everything's provided for because they're working so much? It's tough. It's like I'm in the middle, 50-50, because even with it now with my children, And I try to be like, okay, I want to be present there every single moment, every inch, but it's impossible. It's impossible, especially if you, you know, you got to be the man of the household. I've seen my dad, like, just go out and get it his whole life. Like, it was never an issue with finances. So to say, you know, I would rather have a lesser paying job than to be in a household.

It's difficult for me because that's all I've seen. All I seen was him work. and be a provider. So I really don't know. I'm like in the middle. What ends up happening? Do you continue to get in trouble? Do you get it on track?

How do you finish off high school? So the last school they sent me to was Snyder High School. Once I got the Snyder High School, the changes started to happen a little. But I think it was too late. A lot of my past followed me. So as I'm changing, a lot of the things that I did

was still catching up to me. So it was a little too late. Three days before my senior year, I was supposed to open up Friday night game. I get shot. I get shot three times. It was more than 16 shots fired. So that was a big change for me.

And it was something that happened two years prior to that date. What happened? Was this gang related? I was never in a gang. the dudes I was beefing with were, but I had no knowledge at the beginning. At first it was just a personal thing. A dude didn't like me. We had words.

We fought. It trickled down to shootings and stuff like that. I ended up getting caught up. I think it was September 3rd, if I'm not mistaken, 2011 about 2 a.m. I'm walking home. But I kind of felt the whole day was like something was going to happen. I felt running into him. I seen him about three times before I ended up getting shot at that night.

I went to get a haircut on the same block that they chill on. And I was just my ego, you know, being a tough kid trying to show off. So I went to go get a haircut, ended up seeing him running into him. We had words. Later on that night, like two in the morning, I decided to walk home with my boy. And as we walk at home, I see him again. but now he's with 30 other people. And they're all chilling on the corner.

And I'm like, I tap my boy. I said, yo, listen, they're probably going to jump us. They're probably going to jump us. I'm 17 at the time. I'm not thinking that I'm going to get shot. I'm like, they're going to jump us. And we're just going to have to fight 30 guys. Like, it is what it is.

He's like, yo, what are you talking about? He had no clue I had this beef because it was, like I said, it was a year old. I'm thinking it's over. So I'm walking. I see them. Next thing you know, He walks past me. I'm on the phone with my grandmother at the time.

I'm like, I'm coming in because she's like, where are you at? It's 2 o'clock in the morning. I'm like, grandma, I'm coming in the house right now. I'm coming in the house. As soon as she said that he walked right past me, we had words again. I can't even remember what I said to him, but we had words. And as soon as those words was done being spoken, he pulled out the gun and shot me in my back. As you turn around?

As I turned around. Yep. Now, why are you out? At 2 a.m. Yeah, as a high school. Yeah. As a high school. So first, me and my friend, we was watching film because we had a game on Friday.

So we was watching film at first. And then we had invited some girls over, you know, and we was chilling. Next thing you know, the time is ticking. It's like 12 1 o'clock. And I'm like, what are we going to do? We're staying at your house or we're going to stay at my house. He was like, yo, we can just stay at your house. My house was right down the block from the high school.

So all my boys used to come over and stay over all the time. So we decided to just walk and stay at my house. I never thought it would turn into that. I would have just stayed where I was at. Now, that was common for your parents to allow you to stay out that way. No. Parents didn't even know. See, at this point, I was already living with my grandmother. After I got kicked out and sent to Snyder High School,

my parents decided to let me move with my grandmother because the high school was right down the block. And they figured I were, you know, have a little turnaround. So I stayed with my grandmother for a little bit for about, like, two years. What I said? And what did you sneak out that night to go to your friend's house? No, she, she was a little older, so it was hard. It was easy to, like, manipulate or, like, get out the door. Suppose to my parents, they check in the rooms and stuff like that.

It was only me and her. So once she go to sleep, she's sleep around 8 o'clock. She's not waking up to the next day around 6, 7 a.m. So I'm outside. So it was just easier for me to be out. So now is it all three shots, right? your back or how to work? No, so one went into, the first shot that rung off, I heard it so, like so clear.

It was right next to my ear. You could hear the bang and it was just like, oh, this is happening. So I took off running. The second shot hit me right in my back. I felt that like a minute later. As I'm running, I hear glass breaking from the car windows being shot out. As soon as I try to cut through cars. so they won't, you know, get a clear shot on me.

When I cut through the car, I felt my leg get hit. So my right leg get hit. I get clipped in and out. Then as I'm turning to a cut block, my hand get grazed. So at this point, I'm like, wow, like this is really happening. So now I'm just putting full speed on. I'm trying to get out of there. I finally got to a place where I could just relax for a second

and check myself. So my boy, he's scrambling. He's screaming like, yo, yo, I think I'm hit. I think I'm hit. Check me, check me. And I'm like, bro, no, I'm hit. I feel it. Feel it.

I just don't know where it's at. Because it wasn't a lot of blood from my back, but from my leg, I was dripping. So I knew I was hitting the leg. My back, it actually got stuck. It shattered my ribs and it got stuck in my rib cage. So the bullet never came out. still in me, still in me to this day. And it didn't affect your ability to run at all?

You're still able to. Not that night. No. But after I had permanent sciatica, so you know how that goes. The pain is on and off for years. So, but I was able to run. Once I got to the hospital, the doctor was like, man, I don't know how you pulled this off, but you got some injuries watching over you because you got hit an inch away from your spine.

You were supposed to fall flat on your face that first shot on your back. But somehow, some way it got stuck and you was able, your adrenaline was able to push you through. And I was like, wow, man, that's crazy. So what happens once you get to the hospital? Once I get to the hospital, my parents meet me there,

they actually met me on the scene. Once I called my mom, she got there like five minutes. She literally got there in five minutes. I called her first. I didn't even call the cops first. I called her first, and I was like, Ma, I got shot. And she's like, what? Screaming.

And she's like, your dad just woke me up saying that he had a bad dream about you. And I'm like, he said he had a dream that you got robbed, though. He didn't say you got shot. Where are you at? So I'm like, I'm on Ocean Avenue right now. They got there in five minutes. My girlfriend at the time got there in like two minutes. She was around the corner.

She lived two blocks away from me. She said she heard the shots and knew it was me. because of the continuous of beefing with these guys. So the guys I was actually beefing lived on my block. I lived on one part of the block. They lived on the opposite part. And they stopped pursuing you? Yeah.

Eventually, things just died off. No, that night. Oh, the night? No, no, no. That night. So once I stopped and was able to check myself and I noticed I got hit, me and my friend decided to, like, try to cut through an alley and get to my house.

Because I told him, I said, listen, at that point, I already thought I was going to die. I'm like, so we got to get, I'm like, let's get to my house so I could get my weapon. I had a weapon in the house. I get in front of my door. I call my brother. I'm telling him to drop the weapon downstairs from me. He's nervous. He don't know what's going on.

He's not really into the streets like that. So he's about to drop it, but then he noticed it wasn't no ammo in it. So now he's scrambling and go back in my room to find that. By the time he did that, the boys came right back down the block again. Let off more shots. So at this point, I dropped my cell phone and I continue running. When I dropped my phone, he thought I was done. He thought I was dead.

So the next time he spoke to me is when I woke up in the hospital. So how do you get a phone then to call? Once I ran, I seen a house. I still remember this house, a red house right across. from the church on, if I'm not mistaken, it was on Ocean and I want to say Claremont. House had a cookout, family all in front. I run up to them. They're thinking I'm crazy.

I'm like, yo, can you guys help me? I just got shot. They like, what was going on? What's going on? So quickly, I always remember my mom number. That was something I always remember. She was the first person I'll call. Call my mom.

I didn't ever call the cops. Call my mom first. She came there. By the time she got there, the people who helped me already was calling the cops. Wait, they're having a cookout at 3 a.m? They still was outside. At 3 a.m? Like 2.30, 2 a.m.

Well, it's Labor Day weekend, right? The early September. And I was grateful for them to be outside because if they weren't, the boys probably would have followed me and tracked me down. You think they wanted to kill you? Yeah. At this point, me and my friend already split up. Once we got in front of my door and the second shots rang off, he went a different way

and I went the opposite way. So now I'm by myself. No phone. I'm panicking. I'm like, they're probably still chasing me. Once I got to the house and I seen the family, I don't know why,

but I felt like they was good people. Felt like they was good people. I actually played football with one of their sons, too. So once he came out, I knew who he was. He knew who I was, too. And none of them want to call 911? They called. Oh, they called.

That's how they got there. It took them a while to get there. They finally come up on the scene. Once I got to the hospital, I was like in and out of it. I remember seeing my parents again at the hospital. I didn't remember that they met me at the scene. But once I seen them in their faces, I was just like, wow, something got to change because like the hurt that I seen from them, they didn't understand why. They didn't even know that I was involved in some of the stuff I was involved in.

So. Now, do the cops come to the hospital? Yes. Cops came to the hospital. It was only, like, one that I've seen. I think the rest was downstairs in the emergency room, my family, because they was gone crazy, so they tried to calm them down. But I only met with one officer.

And what does he say to you? First thing he asked me, he was like, do you know who shot you? I'm like, no. I said, I only seen two guys, but I don't know. dumb at all. But I lied because I didn't know them. I seen his face, I seen both of their faces. It was two shooters.

Seeing both of their faces. Why didn't you want to tell them the truth? At that point, I'm not going to lie. I wanted revenge. I didn't. I knew that my family will handle it. Come from a family that's from the streets. So I'm like, okay, I need, I wanted revenge.

I felt like they dis-hundred. to me and I wanted to do something back. So that's what that was. And the cops don't try to investigate it further? They did. They did. So they went to speak to my girlfriend at the time and my mom to try to figure out who was I, you know, beefing with. Like, they was just trying to fish for information. And then once I didn't give them anything, they told me they was like, well, if something

happens, because we already know what block you're beefing with. if something happens to one of these guys who are coming back for you because I already know your family and what they're involved in. And that was that. That was the last I heard from them. So how long are you in the hospital for?

Only two days. And that was because of me. I signed myself out. The hospital was, they was trying to confine me to a wheelchair. They were saying, you know, it's not best that you walk right now.

You got to put you through therapy. You're going to be here for a while. because the back shot was just too close to the spine. So we want to monitor it. But they wasn't allowing, like, my family members to come see me, my friends to come check with me. So I was like, you know what? I'd rather just go home and do the therapy on my own.

So I signed myself up two days. It was about 8, 9 p.m. when they let me leave. My family came to pick me up. It's about four cars. I asked them to go to the block that I got shot on. as soon as I was released from the hospital. And they like, why? Like, are you crazy?

And I'm like, no, I need to see exactly what happened again. I need to replay this in my head. Because in my head, for two years, I never got caught slipping. Two years, I was always on point. So I need to just relive it. So I went to the block. It was nobody out there. But a couple of my other family members,

because they knew I was coming. And it was pitch black, and I just stepped out the car, and I just, on crunches, I just stepped out of the car, and I'm just looking, and I'm like, yo, this is crazy. And I start to vividly see me getting shot again. So after that, my parents were like, you know, you're coming home now. So I came home for a year, and then that's when they sent me away to school. Now, do you go get retaliation or revenge? yourself or does your family? What happens to the guys? Do they get arrested? No, nobody got

arrested. It wasn't no retaliation. I think once I got to school, I just forgot about it. I met some new friends. I don't even know what happened to some of the, one of the guys. It was a bunch of people I was beefing with that. I didn't even know because, like I said, it started off as a personal beef, me and one guy. Then he brought his friend into it, so it was me and two guys. Then after that, I have my crew, is about five of us. Now he brings his whole, like I said, he was a blood. He brings his whole blood gang into it, which I had no business getting involved with any gang activity because I wasn't cripple blood. So, yeah, it happened like that.

And you weren't worried that he was going to come after you again or they would come after you again? No, we ran into each other a bunch of times. And they dropped it because you didn't snitch? No, they didn't drop it. Every time we ran into each other, everybody knew it was something. Anybody who knew us knew it was something was about to happen. You just didn't feel like shooting you again? Yeah, I guess.

I guess. And the cops just left it alone after that? They did. They did. They left it alone. Why do you think they left it alone? I guess because I didn't, but wasn't giving them enough information. So they just dropped it.

Did your parents want you to cooperate? Yes, 100%. My parents was, see, the thing with, I told. tell a lot of street guys, right? If you're in the streets, please let your family know what you got, what you have going on. Because if your parents don't know, when the cops come, they think you're innocent. My parents thought I was innocent. So, yes, they definitely wanted me to cooperate. They definitely was talking to the police more than I was. And then they was giving them wrong information. They was telling them I was fighting people. I was

beefing with people that I was just had physical fights with. That was nothing. We're talking about guns here now. This is real life. This is not no petty fight that happened in grammar school. So my parents really, it was clueless. Coolest to what happened. So do you just end up going and going back to high school? Like nothing happened? I went back to high school two weeks after signing myself out of the hospital. And everyone probably knew, right? Yeah, everybody knew. I pulled up with crutches. Right in the front of the high school was the vice principal. I think his name was Mr. Myers.

And he was like, Laquan, go home. What are you doing here? And I'm like, what do you mean? I got to go to school. He like, not like this. Like, come on, man. We're going to send you a packet. Just go home.

So they didn't let me come in. So I went home. But at this time, I'm already focused on the football season. This is my final year, my senior year I haven't played in two years because of my behavior. because of my grades and just not going to school. So this was the year that I had to make count. So I knew that I needed to be back in school to be able to play on Friday.

So I came back to school. They sent me home for like another week. Then I finally returned to school when I was good to go to school. This is three weeks after me getting shot. I played my first game. Bullet's still in me. It was crazy.

The whole city came out to see me play. I remember them making an announcement during school, and it was like, hey, you guys, you know, game, make sure you come to the game this Friday. The starting quarterback will be playing this week. Once they said that, you can hear the roar from the classrooms. Everybody's screaming, everybody's happy. It's everybody's first time seeing me play.

But they already knew about me because of my pop-warned days and my freshman year at high school. I was a really good football player. So now, you know, the first game comes. I remember we playing St. Annie's High School. All of my boys is on the team, on both teams. So they got a bunch of signs up, number two, you know, get well soon, stuff like that.

A lot of my old coaches came out. Even the news came out. So it was a great game. I scored twice, but I was bleeding. I got hit once and the wound started bleeding again. But I was like, I got to fight through this. This is only an obstacle. I got to fight through this.

So after that first game, I got back to school, and then more things started happening. The boys started, they started showing up to the school. So the principals had a meeting with my parents, and they, you know, they sat us all down. It was like, I think it's best that you transfer to county prep because Snyder is not safe for you, you know. We got people telling us that you're not just a football player.

We got people saying that you're involved in stuff like, you know, this is not just like an innocent situation. So I was like, okay, I think it's best for me to leave, too. I'm not going to allow. So I ended up leaving going to county prep, but they still allow me to play sports for the school. So I still had to come up to the school on Fridays for the games, and I still had to come to the practices.

So it wasn't a bad deal. My senior high school only took two classes, so it wasn't bad at all. But everything that I had to go through to get to that point was like, wow. Now, is this normal for kids at this high school or are these high schools to be dealing with this type of stuff? Yes.

Out of my whole family, I can say, is only about three people who hasn't been shot out of the boys. So it's a saying that they say, they say in my city they say, you know, people get shot at a day. But I feel like that's insane to say because when I met my friends in college, some of them was from Bloomfield, New Jersey. Another one was from New Brunswick and they never experienced anything that I experienced. So it was like a culture shock. I'm like, wow, I had to go through all this and y'all had to. The simple life.

I wish I would have just took that direction, you know, because I'm not going to lie. My parents, they did well with keeping us active, keeping us in sports, keeping us away from the usual norm of Jersey City. If you get caught up and swarmed into that lifestyle, you will drown. And this is all related to gangs? I wouldn't say gangs.

Jersey City is more focused on blocks. It's more like blocks out there. It's not big on, like, it's a lot of blood. And like, it's a lot of blud and crips, but it's not really active like California or anything like that. Nothing. No way close or big enough for that. But it's mainly blocks.

So whoever you grew up with, that's who they would associate you with. Your face is attached to that block. Now, was your family involved in gangs at all? Yes. Yes. Whole family. A bunch of crips. I think a couple of blocks.

but that was in their younger days as well. They did a lot of time. A lot of my cousins did real time. It's funny because my cousin did 31 years in the prison that I was working at. While you were there? No, he left a year before I got there. Because they probably wanted to let you guys work there, right?

Yep. They wouldn't. Now, why did you avoid gangs? Even though you were around them, why didn't you actually join legitimately? To be honest, I think I got offered when I was 16.

You know, one of the bigger guys who was in charge, he pulled me to the side. He was like, yo, kid, I like you. I see that you got your own crew and you're like, you're like in charge of these guys. Like, they listen to you. You know, how about you, you know, get down with the Crips? And I'm like, I told them, I said, listen, respectfully, I don't see myself listening to somebody. Like, I don't see myself being told what to do.

Like, just like you said. like you said, guys listen to me. Why would I now join a gang and have to listen to somebody tell me to do something to somebody? If I ever had problems with people, it would be personal. I've never had a beef where I took it out on an innocent person because he's from their area. No. If you do something to me, I want to do something back to you. So it's personal. So I never even cared about being in a gang. I just, my friends was my friends and loyalty towards dumb. It was everything. It wasn't about, you know, lawyer to a flag. I didn't care about that stuff. So you end up making it through high school. Where do you go to college?

So I went to junior college. I played football. I was supposed to, I had a bunch of offers, but I just, my grades wasn't right. I had a bunch of offers. A lot of colleges like my film, but when it came to the grades, I didn't have the GPA. So I couldn't even qualify for the NCAA. So I had to go jukego first. So I went to a Jew go. in New York, it was called Globe Tech. Did two years there. It was great. It gave me some balance.

It gave me some structure. And it separated me from Jersey City. And the craziest part was it was only a train ride away. But I wasn't in Jersey City. And that was the best thing for me. Because if I would have stayed in Jersey City, I probably wouldn't be here talking to you today. Yeah, it's so crazy how one city or just neighborhood changes.

a person's upbringing. And a parent could be doing all the right things. All the right things. Like, imagine if you guys lived to even say in this town in Richfield with the same parents. Yes. It would be very different.

And I've seen it throughout the years. Now that I'm 33, I have a younger brother who's, you know, he's 16. Same position when it comes to football. One of the best in New Jersey right now. To see the difference from me being in sports

and him being in sports, just from him being at a good program. I remember a couple coaches hit me up and they wanted my little brother when he was like 12 years old. They was like, you know, let him come to Snyder and finish your legacy. I said, no, absolutely not because y'all think it's a legacy. But for me, I had to fight so many battles. Like, I don't want anybody to go through that. I'm 16 years old, 17 years old getting shot.

I'm 17 years old looking over my shoulder every day thinking I'm, I'm going to die. I'm like, I don't want that for my little brother. So I put him at a school. Me and my parents decided to bring him up to a school where my former coach was at who tried to save me. This guy told me everything. He said, listen, the way you're going to end up hurt or you're going to end up hurt somebody

and you're going to be in jail. I never listened to him and it happened. I didn't go to jail, but the other part of that story happened. So now putting my brother. in this program, all he knows is football. All he thinks about his football. He don't have to look over his shoulder. He don't have to be in a town where he got to worry about walking across five different

hoods to get to school. Because where I'm from in Jersey City, I'm on the Greenville side, Greenville section. I have to walk past about four or five different hoods to get to my high school. So in the midst of that, you don't know what can have it. So how does this get fixed? You know, how does the politicians or the police or the community fix us? I think it's more so of the programs. A lot of the, see, back in the day when I was younger, we had a lot of like programs like

Boys and Girls Club. Like, they still have it now. But we had like the PAL building where we could go to to hang out with your friends. I feel like now in Jersey City, the kids are more focused on gangs and not making it out because they don't have the outlet. They don't know the resources. And I was the same kid. I didn't know that if I, you know, asks for help, I could get it. I didn't feel like I had a big brother. I could call and say, hey, you know, I'm having this issue, but how do I handle this? I didn't have that. So everything I was doing was off the emotion. And emotion can get you

hurt. Emotions and ego. So a lot of the kids now, I just feel like they're lost. They don't know their true identity. I feel like if they do find that early, we wouldn't have as much violence in the city. It's definitely slowed down through the years, but it could be way better. It could be way better. I think we can all agree that during the summer, our diets definitely take a hit, especially when we're busy going on vacations and doing a lot of traveling. Now that summer's coming to an end, it's time to get serious. That's why I'm all in on Factor. I've been so dialed in on Factor Meals lately. I mean, literally right now in the office, I have myself a bacon, mushroom, and Swiss scramble.

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factor meals.com locked in 50 off at factor meals.com see website for more details what happens after your two years of junior college um two years of junior college what well I moved on and tried to walk on to Ruckus after having more offers from a four-year college in Texas, but I wanted to be closer to my girlfriend at the time. She was going to Ruckus, so I moved up there. That didn't go well walking on because I blew my knee prior to that, so they wanted more film, and it just was getting shaky. So I was like, you know what, I'm going to just get a job and work. Two years after that, it got hit up by corrections. So.

How in the mail? No. So one of my friends, actually, one of my friends was a correction officer. And he was like, yo, what you think about being a CEO? And I'm like, me? I'm like, bro, I ain't doing that. And he was like, yo, the money is good. And I'm like, I'm like, yeah?

So then he showed me one of his checks. And I'm like, oh, I, cool. I'm thinking about doing it. So I signed up. I never thought I'll get hit back. I'm like, I might not even pass the background check. But everything went well. I was working at PSNG at first.

While I'm working there, my boss at the time was an ex-Sharef for Belmar, New Jersey. And she was like, yo, I think you should take this opportunity. You know, it's life-changing. Just do it. What are you scared of? And I'm like, nah. So I did it.

It was challenging at first because the first, when you, right before you go to the academy, they do a home interview and then they ask you a bunch of questions about your family. And if you lie, you're done right there. So on the chart, I had to put down eight family members that was incarcerated in Jersey. So now she's looking at me like, wow, okay. So I think my process took a little bit longer because of that. At the time, I had three cousins actively in jail at the time of me trying to go to the academy.

One was at Bayside prison. One was at Railway State Prison. and I think one was at, if I'm not mistaken, Southern State. But, yeah, it was in jail at the time. What was the pay that was shocking to you that you wanted to do it? He was bringing home like $3,500 or $2 a week. So what does that come out a year? Gross.

It was like $5,000 a month? Yeah, like $5, like $55 a month. It probably was like when I first started, I think you started with like, yeah, like $70K. But that was like year two. Plus benefits. Plus benefits. Now, what year is this? This is 2018.

And you're how old? I'm 24 at the time going into the academy. What do your parents think that you were applying or even your family members too? My dad was happy because he said that's something he wanted to do. He wanted to be an officer. But he said, you know, when y'all came, I had to get the first job that was available. My mom was a little on a sketchy side. She's like, that might be dangerous.

She's thinking about the videos that she see on TV and YouTube. And I'm telling her, like, I don't think it's like that. I think it's more control now. It's like, we're in 20s, 19. Like, it's more control. She was terrified for me. She was scared. My family, damn, they wasn't with it.

They was not with it. I remember the first time they seen me in uniform. It was at my aunt's funeral. And I just, you know, I had to drive to Trenton. So I had to hurry up. So I put my uniform on to go to the funeral. And the faces they was making, and they was laughing. One of my cousins, she did Tom in Edna Mahar.

She did like 12 years. She was like, yo, boy, you look like a CO, man. You're about the call of coal right now. Mind you're freshly shaved, ballhead, fresh out of the academy. I'm about 180 wet, like small. So they didn't really like it like that. What was the academy? Like, how long is it?

Do they train you properly? They over-train you. They over-train your mind. They make you think that you're going into a war zone. They make you think that you're about to fight against the biggest guys in the world. The running is fine, you know. All of the training is regular because for me, I was an ex-football player, so it was normal for me to be active every day.

So that didn't bother me. What bothered me was the mental, they try to, like, play with your head mentally. And they suck. I hated it. And I was at one of the toughest academies, this is Seeger. You stayed at Monday through Friday. You only get two phone calls for 15 minutes each. And then you go home Friday and report back Monday.

So you really only got a day and a half to see your family. I think it's like state trooper training, right? It's right next to the state troopers. We're on the same facility. as them. So it was tough. I'm not going to lie. It was more of me like trying to grasp like someone yelling in my face every day. I'm like like this guy. Some of the dudes I'm looking at him like I know I could take him like he's yelling and spitting in my face for nothing to tell me something he could just tell me regular. So it was tough. But they definitely overprepare you.

What kind of scenarios do they train you for? You're probably the first officer I've had on that has said that they were over-prepared. So one of the scenarios that they gave us in the classroom, it was funny. It was like, oh, if you're working a tear and, you know, a guy decides to go in a closet and take the broom, what do you do? And from the book is different than when you're actually in a jail. Because nine times out of ten, you're not worried about somebody who's sweeping or using a broom. They made the scenario as if he was going to take that broom sweep for a little bit and then hurt somebody with the room.

But when you are in an academy, you've never been in a prison before, you're not thinking like that. So the whole class fell, the scenario. Nobody knew what they do, what they say. But they put you through small scenarios like that. They put you through intense defensive training. It was about, I want to say, every day we were. was doing DT, fighting, hands-on. We ended up fighting, they put you in a circle.

There's three instructors. You in the middle. Once they blow the whistle, the fighters on. You fight all three. There's no rules, nothing. I mean, I feel like that's good training. Yeah, that was fun. That one was fun.

I'm not home a lot. Then you fight. That's realistic. Yeah, yeah. Then you fight one-on-one against one of your classmates. That was pretty cool because you get to see you. you, you know, who had some toughness in them. But the DT probably was the toughest thing for me

because your body was sore every day. Every day. It felt like you needed an ice bath, so. Do they have men attacking women? Yes. I went against a female. Yeah. She kicked your ass?

Nah, she didn't. But she was tough, though. She was tough. If I'm not mistaken, I think she's still a cop to this day. But she was tough. How many people make it through completely out of the class? So my class started with 100 and I want to say 80. We finished with 100 even.

And what do you think is the most common reason people drop out? The push-ups. Really? Yeah, it's funny. You wouldn't think it's that, the push-ups. Most people can't do them, correct push-ups. And I think it was about, for the men, I think it was 21. And they couldn't get it down.

That's it, 21 push-ups? If I'm not mistaken, it was 21. I think so. Yeah. Now, how far along in the training are you actually brought to a prison to get that actual experience? Two weeks before you graduate. That's not that much time.

No. And what is that first experience in a prison like after all the training you've had? So after all the training, they bring you each group. So we got group A, B, C, and D. Each group go to a different jail and they search the jail. So you're a part of the search team. Now it gets crazy when we get there because it's things that they teach you on the academy. that the jail don't want you doing.

So ripping up these guys, Mel, ripping up these guys, naked pitchers on the wall, I had a bunch of classmates going in there, big-headed, like, man, I'm taking this down. But then when the guys came back in, we still was there. So now they're yelling like, yo, who the fuck took my pitch off the wall? Now it's about to be an active cold.

I believe it was an active cold during one of the visits. Because one of the guys, you know, some guys, they get in this, once they get that badge on them, they just like, it's like a superhero. Super cops, yes. Yes, I've seen a lot of those. I know you were one of the chill cops, though. Super chill. But I feel like that was bad a little bit, though. We would call you guys like the hood cops.

Yeah, that's what they call me. That are kind of like from the streets, but they'd call you hood cop. One of my sergeants, he didn't like me at all. He used to say all the time, like, oh, look at the guys they hire. Like, he's friends with them. And I'm like, how am I friends with these guys just because I can relate to them more? I don't know this guy. It's like at Rikers, too.

You have so many people from the same city that they grew up. You know, they even have gang members that are working. Yes, 100%. And Jersey, too. 100%. 100%. I know a lot of guys from the streets that turned over and went. to become a CO.

And now are they genuinely trying to change their life, or are they like a point? Some of them are. Some of them are. But I feel like some of them, I don't know too much about their story, but I know that they were too deep in. Some guys are too deep in. Yeah, they would have called these sweet in the feds. Exactly.

You don't even want no trouble. Uh-huh. So I was a chill cop. I came on a unit. I had my feet kicked up every day. I let my porter run the tear. he let me know what's going on. And if it was something I had to get up,

then they knew it was serious. But if I didn't have to get up, the whole eight hours, I'm chilling. Now, where do they send you to first? Trenton. Trenton. And tell everyone what Trenton is. Oh, man. Trenton is like,

now they was right when they said at Warzone. But when it comes to the fights, it was more so inmate on inmate. It wasn't officer and inmate. the minute you walk into trenton you can feel with chills you can feel with chills it's like half outside half inside um and it's a giant wall you can't see over it unless you're in a tower so these guys have no sunlight unless they're going to the yard it's dark in there um you can literally feel like something's about to happen every day i suited up in that locker room for trent

and went through those doors, hearing them slam after each other. I'm like, yo, something's definitely going to happen today. And it did. And it did. And it did. And Tritton was like, when it came to an inmate on inmate, it was a war zone. What was the first thing you witnessed? First thing I witnessed.

When I came in, it was a bunch of gang beefs. I think the Latin Kings and the Bloods was beefing real bad. And the first fight I actually seen was like, we didn't see it. We didn't see it until we got up there because, you know, the team waits until everything over and then you go in. But a guy got his head stomped out and they had the e-vacom to the emergency room. It was crazy. It was insane. Right after that, I seen a guy overdose on fentanyl and we had to make a shield around him, a circle around him.

so the guys from the yard won't see what was going on. That's another thing. They like to sweep things under the rug, so it won't be, you know, too much commotion on the unit. So we literally stand in a circle, and it's a dead body in the middle of us. Now, why would they want to keep that under wraps? Wouldn't that deter people?

I'm not sure. Or is it from getting out to the press? I think it was both. Because sometimes, you know, them just seeing a body on the floor, they could think that we did. it. They could think that anybody did it and they didn't want nobody to turn up or that could be somebody friend, you know, or cousin laying there. So he was like, you know, shield him so they won't see it. But that was probably the craziest thing. But it was, it was normal for me because

I already seen a dead body before. I've seen a dead body at 14. So it wasn't really, it wasn't much I was afraid of in there. But now I will tell you this, I was, I was on edge a lot when I was working in training because I felt like a lot of these guys had more than 30 years. They have nothing to lose. If they really want to do something to you, they will do it. So at that time, I'm just like, you know, head on a swivel, always looking over my shoulder. I never allowed anybody to walk behind me. That was my number one rule.

You're walking in front of me. I don't care how long it takes. That's something I always stuck by. Yeah, when you're supervising these guys that have nothing to lose, how can you even enforce rules? Like, how can you tell another man you can't have this? Exactly. Or you can't do this or you got to do this at this time when they literally have nothing to lose. Exactly.

Are there repercussions if they act up? Yes, there are. But a lot of those get, you know, thrown out. So you'll call a sergeant if it's an issue. I didn't do that much. I would just go to the cell, pop the door, talk to them. Simple. A lot of these guys just want to be heard.

They just want to talk, rant for a little bit, and then they go about their business. You know, I think when you come to them as a man, they respect you more. Then you coming down on them, trying to talk down on them, will tell them, yo, you got to do this. You got to do that. I just go to the cell. Yo, what's up, yo? Listen, you know we got to get this done, right? We got to get this done.

I'm not calling no shardons today. let's just do this. Take your little break. I know you're angry right now. Get over it. Be a man. Do what you got to do, handle your business. Come holl at me later.

Simple as that. And I got more respect by doing that than calling a sergeant every five minutes. Give us an example of a situation when you first earned a respect and kind of set the tone. I think when I got to Railway, when I got transferred the Railway,

they put me on a unit that was like the worst unit. It was like an intake unit. It's called Three Wing. Now this unit houses 380 inmates. It's three floors, six tiers, six officers, officer to each chair. At the time, I'm the number one officer. I'm controlling the book.

I'm controlling what comes in, what goes out. At this time, I think we had like a problematic inmate. He was real. And the craziest part, he was a short guy. He was about 5'3. 5'3 blood, big blood. He was like supposedly a dangerous guy inside the jail, though. He did a lot of stamens and stuff like that.

So he was just having a bad day one day. And I come in, I'm on second shift. I come in. I'm chilling. I put my stuff down. They're going to mess. And he just says something. you know, stupid to me.

Just keeps going on after the mouth. He's like, yo, I'm going to F you up. And I'm like, yo, I don't got nothing to do what happened on first year. Brother, like, chill out. Like, chill. He's still going. He comes back from mess. He's just grilling me the whole time.

I'm sitting at the desk watching the movement go past. He's grilling me. I'm like, so then I walk and do my tour. I get to his cell. He's right at the window, popping shit. just popping it crazy and I'm like all right okay I'm all right he like yo gave my shower now like this is how he's talking to me and I'm like yo chill like I'm telling you to chill um I want to say the day went on by the end of that shift he got hands put on him by some money

when stay did that to him he came out and the first thing he was saying was oh rouse Rouse did this. Rouse did this. That was his friend that did this. That was his boy. I didn't even know the guy. The guy was like, listen, we did that because we're not tolerated no disrespect to somebody that's cool. Like, you ain't like these dickheads in here.

He's showing off everybody. So we're going to make an example out of him. When I tell you, he came out of the bathroom looking like Martin from that episode. And the first thing my lieutenant said to me, she was like, yo. he's saying that you set him up that you you know you made that call and I'm like yo I promise you I didn't if I would have did it it probably would have been worse I'm not I didn't I ain't tell him to do that they did that because they respect me but he got to watch his mouth after that day he was sent to they caught all three of the guys that did it to him

they sent them all to like lock up but once they came back to the unit like after 20 days he came to me and apologized he was like yo My bad, yo, like, a lot of the guys came to talk to me, blah, blah, blah. They told me this, that, and third. That's when I knew that I had a little bit of juice and respect in the building. A lot of the guys knew my family already. So when I came in, it was a couple of the OGs that was in Railway State Prison that came up to me and was like, yo, listen, we already know your name.

And because of your name, you ain't got to worry about no issues in here. If anybody think about touching you, it's up. Did anyone ever try to take advantage of that? No. But I feel like through time, they probably would. I was only at Roaldway for three years. I feel like if I was there longer, they probably would. Why did you get moved from Trenton to there so quick?

I asked for like an emergency transfer at the time because I knew too many people with Trenton. And I felt like it was getting known to the other officers. and like supervisors that I knew these people. So I just wanted to go to a different area. So I asked for the transfer. So he transferred me to roll away. Why were people telling the other officers?

Yes. They were saying my nickname. I had a guy who didn't like me who actually did something to in the streets. He was in there. And he was telling, like, he, one thing he said to me, he was like, you ain't a cop, J. Reed. And that's from a movie.

He was like, listen, yeah, I don't even know this guy. He's not an officer. I'm like, so you're telling me a person can't change their life? I knew you when I was 16, 14, 15. You don't know nothing about me now. I'm grown, 25 years old. But, you know, like I said, your past follows you. So that's why I moved from training.

I knew everybody at train. A lot of the guys that was in it was from Jersey City. Did it make you question your, I guess, teenage year choices and, you know, how you could have ended up there? Yes. I ran into one of my good friends. And this probably was my last time seeing him. It was two weeks before my transfer.

And he was on my unit at the time. And I went up to him and I just told him like, yo, listen, I'm going to be out of here soon. He's serving 75 years right now. What he said to me really woke me up. He was like, yo, Lay, that's my nickname. He was like, Lay. It's crazy that we both were star players, bro. But the minute you decided to leave the streets alone,

that's when your life changed. He was like, I got locked up 2013. You got shot 2011. You changing in the midst of those two years, changed the trajectory for your life. Now look at me. I got 75 years, bro. And I'm just like, wow.

He was like, yo, you gotta write a book about this, bro. And I was like, y'all should, right? It's crazy. Because I really, if I'm not, when I tell you, I used to be preparing myself to go to jail. I used to tell my brothers, like, yo, listen, I know I'm gonna do some time, but I know it's gonna be some real time

because the beef that I was in, I was willing to go that measure to hurt somebody. At the time, I just wasn't a good person. So I knew I was gonna do some time, But I never, never did no time. Juvenile, I got arrested about three times. But other than that, never did no time. How did other officers treat you there when you first got on?

They didn't like me. At Trenton, they loved me. They loved me at Trin. When I got the railway, they didn't like me. Tritton is a good place when you got the right people around you. So when I first came in, a bunch of the old heads put me under the wing. So I was like little bro to them. And after my first year, the new class came on and two of my boys is in that class.

So now it's a group of four of us. And we just like the cool kids. We young, you know, we ride bikes. We got motorcycle crew. So we would ride up from Jersey City all we were training on the motorcycles. But I felt like some of the higher rups, like the sergeants and stuff like that, they didn't like us. And it's crazy because they was black. It was insane.

Are they mostly black? In train, yes. It's a lot of black. What about? Roleway? No. Male-to-female ratio. It's insane.

It's only about, it was 10 females probably. In the whole president. And the train. It probably was 10 to 15. And are they black too? They mix. Spanish, black, white. But Rollway was more white.

Trenton was a lot of black supervisors. How about corruption with the officers? Yeah, it was a lot. So my first year in Triton, I seen a guy get caught bringing in. He was from Camden. He got caught bringing in like three pounds of weed. I don't know how you get it in. but he tried to hide it in the ceiling.

But the way he got caught, the way they found out was because the guy he was bringing it to, I think actually told on him. Why would he tell? I really don't know. He said the guy knew his family. So the guy, you know, told him, like, yo, you got to do this.

If you don't, you know what's going to happen. So that's why he did it. But, yeah, that was the first one I seen. It was a bunch of corruption, a bunch. The second one was somebody I actually used to be with. So that made it harder for me than my job as well because now they're looking at me as you knew him. How didn't you know he was doing this? What do you mean be with?

He was a part of my bike crew. Okay. Yeah. Young kid. He was like, I'm 25 at the time. He's 20. 20. 20.

Fresh. What was he doing? He got caught up and I'm not sure if you heard about. the Fetty Wop situation? No, what happened with Fettywap? He got locked up, like, I want to say probably like a couple years back. He did some time for whatever they had going on. He was involved in it.

And he was running for them in uniform. That was before he did his Fed bid? It was for the Fed bit. But so he was in New Jersey or? He was in, he got caught. Oh, outside of the prison. He got caught outside of the prison. Oh, okay.

It wasn't prison related. Nope, wasn't prison related. So he would, he would. Clock out of work, stay in uniform, keep the badge and a gun on, and run drugs from Jersey to upstate New York. Wow. He got caught up in the ring. He's actually in jail right now. He's doing like six years.

He got more time than Fetty. Yeah. Yeah. So he got caught up in that. But I felt like once he got caught up in that, it put a bad rep on me and my other guy's name because we were so close to him. So the first day, I remember the first day that happened, they called my unit, my sergeant called my unit, like, yo, where's your boy at? And I'm like, what do you mean? He's not, he's not, he's not on his unit.

He's like, no, you didn't hear what happened? I'm like, no, what happened? He's like, he's in jail right now. I'm like, what? I just left from him last night. We was together last night. They was like, yeah, he got picked up last night transporting in his uniform. I'm like, transplanting what?

they like bro you sure you don't know what's going on i'm like no this kid man he was he was involved involved like i think they call him with more than 1.5 million um and drugs in uniform got pulled over by state trooper i'm like yo how embarrassing man this is like but i knew he was one of those guys that would get easily caught up in that because he never was never was from the streets. He was from Passaic. He wasn't a street kid. He just wanted to be down so bad, like so bad. And those be the ones that either get hurt or get involved in something like that. So are there a lot of young officers? A lot of them. Why did all the old guys retire and there was no balance of?

I'm not sure. There's a lot of old guys there still, but you won't really see them. They take bids that's outside of the jail or they take bids that's like layup spots. So you won't really see them when it comes to being active around the jail. How do the old head inmates treat the younger officers? It depends. Some of them won't respect you because you're younger than them. But some will. Some will get the whole unit in order for you just because they've been there for so long and they got so much respect.

Like I had one at Rory State Prison. He's famous on YouTube. His name is Snowball. This guy is about 74, I want to say. But his younger days in Raleway State Prison, he's been there since the 60s. His younger days, he was violent and probably the most problematic inmate. Everybody was scared of him. I'm in my first day working my unit.

I tried to fire him. The next day he was at that job again. The lieutenant came to me and was like, listen, he can't be fired. he has more spit on his boots than you will ever have. He was like, listen, bro, respectfully, I don't know why you don't like him, but you can't fire him. After that, you know, had a couple talks with him and then we became cool. It wasn't a bad thing to have him a part of my, you know, my staff. It was like he was decent.

He controlled the unit. He helped when it came in for intake. He made sure they had the property and new property and stuff like that. And he told me everything that happened the day I wasn't there. So I will come back to work and he's just filling me. It got to the point what I had to tell him. I said, Snowball, stop telling me everything. I don't care.

If there's nothing that it don't involve me, do not tell me about it. Because you know everything that's going on. I don't want to know everything that's going on. My days off is my days off. I don't care what happened. But he was good for that. He knew everything, everything. Did you have any snitches come to you at all?

And how would you handle that? Yes, I had one guy. He came from, he just got transferred in. And like I said, my unit was the intake unit. He came from Northern State Prison, blood, and tats all over his face, skinny tall, do about 6'3. He comes in. As soon as he comes in a unit, we make him sit in the middle of the tier.

So everybody from each chair can see them. So I guess his COD. was on one of the tears, and I guess he ratted on him. They yelling out down to him, oh, what's up when you get up here? Don't worry about it. We got you. We got you. When I tell you, five minutes into him being on my tear, he came back to that desk like,

nah, call the sergeant. Call the sergeant, send me to lock up. Send me to lock up. I'm like, for what? You didn't even do nothing. He's like, I can't be here. I can't be here. So as I'm fishing for information from him, he's not telling me.

So I go up to ask the people, what's going? No, I'm like, yo, what's up? Like, why y'all press an old boy that's downstairs? They tell me, oh, he snitched. He ratted on my man right here. We're going to get him. I worry about it. We're going to get him.

He was terrified. He was willing to fight me so he could go to lockup and not stay on my unit. So what I did, I just locked him into the kios room. And I was like, yo, just chill here. Because if I let you just roam out on this tier, somebody's going to get you. So I had to lock him in a room. and shut down the kiosk for that day, so they won't get to this guy. So did you respect that aspect of inmate politics?

No. Well, yes, on the inmate side. Yeah. I didn't respect the one that came in and tried to bitch up. No, but the concept of how they would run someone off. You were fine with that. I was cool with it. It was cool with it.

Long guys, it didn't get me in trouble. If y'all could do it discreetly, do what you got to do. I mean, doesn't the system kind of accept it, too? They do. Because if you called the sergeant, they're going to remove them, right? Yep. They take them out as fast as possible because they don't want nothing to happen. What do you think it was like the craziest checking you've ever seen?

Was it like a middle of the night they call you type of thing to get me out of the unit or they ran up a tab? This was right before count time like 9.30. Another guy from Jersey City that I knew. I grew up with his brother. His brother actually got killed a couple years back, God rest of soul. But me and his brother was real tight in the street. streets. So he knew me through his brother. He was older than me. He's taking a lot of K2 around his time. So he's hallucinating, tripping out. I'm doing my last tour. Now, as a CEO, everybody

know they last tour. You're just trying to get out of it and go home before you get stuck. He starts to scream. Ralph, save me. Ralph, save me. I'm like, what's going on? I'll get to the cell. His bunky is, like, pounding on him. just pounding on them and I'm like so now I'm trying to make sure them out because at this time we got body cams

I'm trying to make sure the body cam is not catching everything through that little window so I'm talking to them like yo stop like stop I'm not trying to call the cold it's 930 it's no way possible I'm calling this cold my serge is going to be pissed the hell off

so I'm like yo at this point I'm like you know what I'm like you fight back like you're acting like a bitch fight back. Fight him back. He's like, Ralph, save me,

Raus, save me. But you could tell the bunkey wasn't even hitting him. He just was yoking him up because he was so high off the K2 that he was just

tripping. So the bunkey was tired of him. And it was an old-de-head bunky. So he was just like, yo, Ross, I'm not even hitting him. I'm just controlling him.

He-ha, man, he-ha, I'm sick of this. So I'm like, listen, y'all have to deal with this tomorrow. I kept doing my tour And by the time I got back to him Because the unit is like 80 cells

By the time I got back to that cell He was on his bed Sleep Like just Cutled up cover over him Looking like a kid Like he got put in his place Now you don't feel bad about that

I did feel bad because I knew him That's the only reason why I felt bad But what if he got severely hurt Now if he I knew him he wasn't going to get severely hurt because they wasn't really throwing fists. He just was yoking him up. Like he was trying to control him before he made him hurt him. Now, if it was to the point where fist was thrown, I know for sure I would have the call to call it. Do you think a lot of officers react

the way you did? No, they would have called it. They would have called it. Especially the younger guys. They would have called it. I used to do it when I was my first year. I used to call everything, thinking that it was okay. But then my sergeers would be like, yo, like, this is stuff that you can handle. Like, don't call it. Talk to them, separate them, put them back in. They do what they do. And I was like, okay. But, yeah, a lot of people would have called it. Now, tell everyone what K2 is and what, like, the craziest trip out you saw from it was, because I've seen some crazy stuff in the feds with K2. That K2 is different. I think K2 is like a synthetic weed. And it's like, they was

mixing it with a lot of, like, different things. I actually caught the guys making it one unit before that I was working. They had like raid spray and they would spray it on like a piece of paper with the K-tool and then mix it with like a disinfect spray and then they smoke it and then make them

when I tell you it gives these guys superpower. It's like I remember one cold it was six of us fighting one guy and all I'm trying to do is get the cuffs on him because at this point they're already got him. There's already three guys on him fighting. I'm not about to throw blows when I'm just

trying to control this guy. So I'm trying to get the cuff on him. And when I tell you, he was so strong, he threw all of us off him. He's on the floor. He did one of these power moves, and he got all of us off of him for that one second. And I'm like, oh, this is different. This is different. Like, never seen nothing like it. I had another bad experience with K2. I did a cell search and they just finished smoking it. So you know when they smoked, they put the little blockage on the window so all of the smoke is stay inside. When I went to pop the door, I think they went to shower or something like that. I went to going, as soon as I stepped in the cell got hit with the K2.

Immediately, I felt it. Immediately. So I back up and it was like a gate on my tear. I hit the gate. My back hit the gate. My porter scene that I was stumbling. He grabs me. He grabs me, walks me over to my desk.

He like, yo, sit down. I'm like, yo, what happened just now? He's like, bro, you almost fell face first. Sit down. So my partner calls the cold. Sergeant, lieutenant, everybody rushes over. I'm like sweating bullets. And I felt like I just blacked out.

So they send me to the hospital. I get to the hospital. They run all these tests on me. It comes back that I had a chemical imbalance in my system. I get back to the jail. They act like it was something normal. They didn't want to put me out of work for a couple of days. It was like, you know, you could take off, but you got to use your own time.

It didn't make sense to me. I'm like, so you mean to tell me I get hurt on the job. This thing could have possibly killed? me, I've never smoked K2 in my life. I get hit with smoke and it affects me this bad and you're telling me I got to come back to work tomorrow. That's when I knew I was about to quit. I knew it was almost over for me. I'm like, yeah, this is not even worth it. My health is at risk. I'm not doing this. Every day my unit was full of K2. Every day you could smell it coming in. You're doing your tour. You could smell it. I was wearing a mask up until COVID was far over.

I still was wearing one because it just was that bad. Did they still get physical mail in? Like, it wasn't scanned copies? Because a lot of it comes to the mail, right? They spray it on the paper. And how much is it selling for in there? I wasn't, I'm not sure. I never really heard too much about it.

But I know for a fact that just one little piece of the paper was like $20. Yeah, it's expensive. You can only imagine a whole sheet of paper. They cutting that up. You can make a bunch of money. I know some now. What I did know about was the guys selling a phone time. I know a guy he was charging people $200 that used the phone.

And what? He was just policing the phone or how would it work? He wasn't even policing the phone. They didn't have money on their, you know, what they call it, J-Pay, I guess. They didn't have money on it. So they would use his line and he would charge them 200 the next time they got their money. So he'd just keep a book of tabs of people that owe him. Oh, so he's spotting it until they get money.

money to use their phone. But doesn't the prison catch onto it because they're listening? Yes, 100%. 100%. So what do they do? That's when they just remove him or put them on a different unit. But most guys not going to tell, you know, they got to have a confession. Somebody got to tell him like, yeah, he's doing this because he could easily just say, no, I just let him use the phone. You know, he didn't have a phone, so I let him use the phone. But most guys wasn't telling. A lot of my porters was like big time guys. And I would do that purposely. So I won't have to do too much work. Now, was there mandatory cell searches for you? Every day. So what would you do? Because you're laid back. So it was three every day. So I would just go straight down the list,

straight down the line. One, two, three, four, five, six. I'm not doing no extra super crazy search. Like, I'm coming in. Anything visual I see, cool. I don't care about naked pitches. I don't care about none of that. Like, I still know you're a man at the end of the day. You still got a hand of your business. If I seen something like hooch, a big amount of it, and I was taking it. Other than that, I didn't really care for doing these deep searches because we had a search team who did that. These guys came in. That was their only job to search. Yeah, they put the shirt over the window and they're in there for an hour. I'm not, yeah, an hour, exactly. So I'm not about to do another search if you're already doing it.

That's just like I'm wasting my time. I'm trying to. And then some of the sales are so, it's so much items in there. You're never going to find this stuff. You got to spend hours stripping that cell down to find a little shank or to find some rolled up K2. Like, I will pass. What was the strangest thing you ever saw in the cell? Strangest thing.

Hmm. I think the funniest thing I've seen was photos of women that was from my city. Yeah. That were sending the guys photos. Yes. Somebody from my city was sending these girl Instagram photos, photos of women who sent them photos, like, you know, naked pictures, stuff like that. So when I seen it, I confronted the guy. I was like, yo, let me see the pictures. So he shows me the pictures. We get into an argument because he's like, yeah, this is my girl, but I know the girl personally.

I'm not, I just was with it two days ago. I know for a fact that's not your girl. So I was like, listen, I'm going to give you the option, bro. Gather all them pictures up and give them to me, or we're just going to go find them. So took the pictures he gave him to me. I brought him to the girl. I gave it to her. I said, yo, listen, be more careful about what you posting, bro, because I don't know who's sending your mail up,

But whoever you send these pictures to is all around the jail. They're selling your junk for a dollar, a dollar photo. They borrowing your photos for two weeks and then giving it back. How would they get the photos, though? I think someone sends them. Someone will either screenshot them and send them because a lot of them look like screenshots. But doesn't the prison go through it and not allow that in? We check them.

So how would those get in? The mailroom. So the mailroom is a bunch of old guys. So they'd mess up? They're not really doing that job. they sit in there chilling. They're drinking their coffee. They're talking about sports.

They get a big package of photos. They think it's family photos. But the whole time is a bunch of news. And they could probably put tape two together. Yeah. That's what they usually do. They staple, like seven together. So you won't go through the whole pack.

But honestly, I didn't really care too much about photos like that, especially if it was like their girl or something. Like, I know there's still men at the end of the day. And they're doing some real time. So that's an outlet for them. But for that incident, the only reason why I took his photos, because I knew the girls personally, and I felt bad about it, I can't leave their photos in here.

Like, I can't. I be with this girl. Like, I just was with her two days ago, and somebody got her Instagram photos in here, and he's telling people that's his girl, and I know it's not his girl. Were there cell phones in there? Yes. Yes.

a bunch. How do you feel about them? I feel like I don't know how they got them in, but I know for a fact they was there because I remember doing a tour overnight shift on my unit, and I heard something ring. And I'm like, I know I'm not tripping. I know I'm not tripping.

So I walked down the tier, it's pitch black, all lights off at night. And I'm like, yo, just ring one more time. It rung again. I said, somebody got a phone here, yo. But I couldn't find out where because it's six tears. At nighttime, it's you and another guy. But the way they split it up, once he's on break, you're there by yourself.

And then he comes back, you go on break. And he's there by yourself for another four hours. So it's like, you're there manning six tears, like 380 people. You're never going to find that. you can't hear that echo that well in that building. But it definitely was phones in there. What about food? Would guards smuggle in, like, say, McDonald's for anyone?

Yeah, I don't think for, I'm not necessarily sure for people, but for themselves, 100%. Were you allowed to bring in? No. Oh, so how do you, what do you bring in lunch then? You had to eat what they cook. Wait, really? Yeah. You couldn't bring in your own lunch?

No, you got to eat the mess hall. You got to eat what they're cooking. Food is disgusting. To worry that you guys aren't bringing in contraband through the food? We had a couple guys do that. They bring it through the sandwiches. But doesn't it go through like a scanner? Yeah, but you can't see it.

I guess drugs or something like that. So he had the, he had like bags of weed inside his sandwich under the lettuce. So it was like you really kind of see it through the scanner. But it was hard to like get any food in unless you knew somebody. So what if you have a special diet or something? That's the thing. When I first started, I was pescatarian, so I couldn't eat some of the options. So I would literally eat before I got in the building and then eat at night.

But yeah, I've seen guys, you know, bring things in through their vests. They put like a bag of fool, like a Ziploc bag, put in the vest. For themselves or for an inmate? For their self. Or put it in their pocket. We got some big cargo pans. But other than that, you probably could get away with getting like gatorades and stuff like that. But I know officially in the academy they,

told you with two bottles of water, that's it. But once you get on, you can bring like gatorade, stuff like that. But other than that, you ain't bringing no food in. So what kind of food are they feeding the officers? It's separate than the inmates' food? Separate, but still nasty. And the inmates cook? Yes.

You ever worried that they're going to spit in your food? 100%. 100%. We're fucking with it? Exactly. And that's why I never, any time I ever ate was from, it was like something they made right than in there. Now, I've had food from my unit as well where, you know, one of my porters cooked me something up in his cell.

But I trusted him enough to know that he wasn't going to play no games like that. But when it came to like the regular line food, I never ate it. Like they would have like mashed potatoes, chicken, French fries, and like it was all fattening foods. And that's why a lot of CEOs look the way they look. Yeah, there are a lot of overweight CEOs. Yeah, because the food. Food is bad. I mean, that's like some cops too, a lot of overweight.

Yeah, I think it's just the stress of the job. Like, you can't eat what you want. You got to eat on the fly. The minute you're eating, a coal might pop wolf. You got to go. So you can't really maintain a good diet in there. Yeah, so. Yeah, I never really thought about the mess hall situation

because a lot of these prisons are probably most of them have the inmates cooking for the officers. As an officer, I don't know if I would want to eat that food. I'm telling you, I never trusted it. I never, because you watch them make the sauces. They make barbecue sauce. They make all these sauces. They can easily spit in that and stir it up, and you will never know. Or put pee in it or something.

Anything. So I never was into like eating a fool there. Now, when you're on shift, you were saying earlier, you know, you put your feet up, relax. What are you doing? Can you watch TV or can you go on the internet? Do you have a phone? No internet. No access.

Only people who have access to that is supervisors. and they are limited to what they can, you know, view. So what are you doing? You really can't do much but watch TV. And technically, you're not supposed to have one of those. So I had a cool little desk. My desk had like a door. TV was in here.

So my feet kicked up here. If I see, I got a mirror at the corner of my unit right there in that corner, I can see my sergeant or anybody walking in. So I just make sure I'm on the lookout. If they came in, I slammed that door. I had the volume down enough that they wouldn't see the teeth, that they wouldn't hear it while they, you know, filling out the book before they do their tour. Other guys, you know, they put the TV in a lockbox or they have it in the bathroom. Bathroom is right behind you.

It's a personal bathroom. It's just yours. So they put the TV in there. How do you get the TV in? You get it from the Emmys. They'll give you a TV and then what, they'll just buy another one? Yeah. How many channels are on it?

It's like 37. I think. What would you watch? They had all the good stuff. All the good movies, all ESPN, everything. So, especially when it came down to, like, football season, oh, we was there watching it. We was there watching it.

And they was there tuning in. And I remember as soon as I got one in the unit, I got a TV, I got two. And I was like, not only need one, like, just give me one TV. They, you know why they give you a TV? Because they want something in return. They want to be out more. They want to be able to do something. Or they keep that in their pocket.

Like, yo, I remember that time I did this for you. Or keep you out of their hair. Exactly. So you won't be in any business. What about selling people up together? Was that complicated? Like who could go with who? Yes.

Very. Very. But we didn't have much control of that. Only the number one officer. So I had control of the book. So I had the call, you know, to send a keeper and stuff like that, update the numbers and stuff like that. But when it came to, like, getting a change,

if they asked, I would try to push for it. because nobody wants to be uncomfortable, you know. I want my unit to be as peaceful as possible. So I would change you if you wanted it. But if it was just because you just want to sell by yourself or something like that, that's just like, come on, bro. It's 380 people here. You got to be realistic.

You got to bunk with somebody. But if it was like a situation where there's blood in the crib, I was getting them up out of there fast because I had no time for the drama. I wanted my unit to be as. smooth as possible. Now, on your day is off when someone else is in charge of your unit, or even the shifts before you, are you always having to clean up a mess when you get back? Not really.

First shift was a bunch of assholes. So it was like, it was like hand in day. First shift officers was all white boys. They ran it like no other. It was like these guys couldn't do nothing. It was like 23 locked in. one hour out. And this is a medium prison.

So I'm like, that's not even necessary. So when I came on second shift, you know, at first they ain't really like me because I would tell them like, I don't even need your list. I don't care what you did today. I do my own thing. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I'm not following behind nobody's lead. I do my own thing. I run my unit the way I want to run it. So you can hold off on the list. They didn't like me because of that. They like kids that they can, like, put under the wing and conform them into a system that's like a matrix. And I just wasn't cool with being a part of that.

So you had control over how long people would be in their cell for? Yeah. The only time they come out is for schooling, showers, phones, kiosk, mess hall, the yard, and for religious reasons. But you could keep them out longer or no? If you want. Like my porters, they would stay out. to nine. I'll keep them out to nine because, but they'll stay out all there. My porters will stay out

all there. As soon as I get in, that's the first door I'm popping. I go pop my porter door, he go take the phone list, he'd bring me the phone list back. I start letting people out for the phone list. After that, I'm back, saying that that's chilling. I don't get up until the porter come holl at me and tell me, hey, yo, Rouse, so-and-so need this. All right, give me a second I get up. Other than that, it ran smoothly. I only had one issue when it came to me hiring somebody. I think the sergeant didn't like him. He just was like, yeah, he's out too much. He's on the floor just chilling like he like runs this spot. I'm like, bro, he's in prison. I can see him from my desk. He ain't going nowhere. He's working for me. Like, just because he's not mopping right now,

he's doing something. I let him chill out. I let him hang. He's in. He's in prison. I let him. out a little bit. I'm not really pressed about the way y'all pressed. Like, it's just, some of the cops was super cops. Like, you would have thought they would stay troopers. Now, what would you do about sex offenders? Did you have those? I did. And I remember I had one guy who I didn't know was a sex offender. I hired him to be my porter. That was the biggest mistake I did, man. Because when they found out, I remember they, um, the day I wasn't there. They always did stuff when I wasn't there.

The day I wasn't there, they robbed him. They went in his cell, took all his food, took his TV. So the next day I come in, he comes to me and say, you know, hey, Ross, something happened yesterday. He didn't want to tell me because he didn't want to snitch. He, like, something happened yesterday. And I'm like, what's going on? So I immediately go to them, like, yo, what are y'all doing?

Like, y'all bugging. But then when they told me, like, Ross, you're, you, you're, you're whaling. Like, you don't even know who you got him. he is sex offended above line. I'm like, shit. I had the thing. I'm like, their code is different than what I'm going by because I'm lucky they ain't put hands on this guy.

So I immediately move them. I just move them off the tear, move into a different tier. How do you not know? Don't you have access to everyone's charges? No. We don't see no charges. Unless you go home and look these guys up,

you don't see anything. Can you look them up on the computer that you have access to? We don't even have a computer on our tier. Oh, really? Nope. The only ones who have access to computers are sergeants, lieutenants, and anyone who's working in, like, sinner. They have access to it. They probably can look it up.

But we had no, once we get the face sheet, all we see is their height, weight, you know, eye color, and any, like, tattoos. Other than that, like, they have three sheets of, like, paperwork, but there's no charges on there. How did the inmates find out? They would call home. find their name on everybody had a face sheet on their door they get their name tell their friends to look them up and then tell them what they know that's how i would find out about more people who was like snitches and more people who was like certain things through inmates inmates will call to me and tell me what do you think was a worst part of your job what do you hate the most doing

Oh, man. I think what I hated the most was, like, being around certain other CEOs, like, seeing the way they act, it was annoying. Because I knew that they just didn't understand that when you come from a certain area, you see things before it happened. I can see when a guy is about to bulk up and fight. I can feel when the energy is off in a unit. They didn't understand that. A lot of them will, you know, look at you a certain way, but they didn't realize that for me it was it was bigger than just working in the jail. I come from this.

So I know what some of these guys are filling with their experience, you know? So me talking to them, man and man is just something that I had to do for me. It has nothing to do with, you know, me being dirty, me being like their friends. I don't even know these guys, for real, for real. They just respect me because I'm coming to him like a man, I ain't looking at that. him as a dog because he locked up. I don't care about your charges. That's on you.

You got to face the state, not me. What about squat and cough? I hated that. I hated that. I'm telling you, right now, I used to let some guys just keep the boxes on. I wasn't beat for all that. That was just too much for me. I remember the first time I seen a dude, dude, I'm like, what?

Like, this is what we, this is what you doing? Are you serious? Like, and it's crazy what you would see. One time I seen a guy and he was a known guy for smuggling, they said he had like six oranges in his butt. And I'm like, what? You're doing that to smuggle phones and drugs? Like, this is crazy. Oh, to prop it?

Yeah. So he would put oranges in his butt for like a day. So it would be easier for him to, once he go to visits to get the drugs or whatever. And I'm not even sure how these guys are smart because when I tell you, the way visits work is about three offices watching guys. And it's not as that, it's not that many people there. So the way they pull it off when you run the cameras back and you see like the dish off or the hand off, it would be like, oh, this dude is nice. Like I didn't even peep that. I was right there.

So it was crazy. What about female CEOs hooking up with inmates? Was that a thing there? Not at none. No, I was. I think at training it was. I'm not mistaken. But at Roleway, not that I knew of,

we had a lot of, like, civilians, though. We had a civilian to get caught. She was on her knees about to give the inmate head. Where? She got caught in the upstairs of the infirmary. Now it's like a closed off area where only an officer would be able to give you access to that area. So she must have got cool with the officer and got the keys. Hey, I'm going to take this inmate up here to get something.

Once he went up seeing that she was out for too long, he went up to check on her. He said her shirt was halfway up, titty's out on her knees about to give him head. Was she like a nurse? She was just like, I think she was a nurse, yes. Did she get arrested or just fired? She got arrested and fired. The inmate just went to lock up, but they don't get any charges because they can't, you know. They have no say-so when it comes to that.

It's like a rape charge for the individual. That's crazy. Yeah. That's the only thing I've seen at Roaway. Did you encounter Maxby at all? No. No, I thought I would have seen him when I got to Northern, but I was only at Northern for a little bit. I never see him.

Nope. Now, were you expecting to have a long career? I was. Like, retire from it, do 20 years? Yeah, man, I was going to do 20. I was going to do 20 and out. I would have been 45. And that's why I got tatted.

Crazy. I didn't have these tats in 2018. I started. Once I got into the jail, it was like, you know what? I'm getting tatted, you know? I already got my job. I got my benefits. I'm making good money.

I'm getting tatted. It's over. So I put the tats on my neck, hands, everything. I didn't expect to leave that fast. So what happened? Why'd you leave? I felt like I had to at the time. I felt like they played with me.

Because I was a good officer, even though I was chill laid back, I still was, you know, firm, fair, and strict. I felt like they played with me. I got into a situation. I was dating a woman there. Should have never did that. Another officer? Yes.

I was dating another officer. You know, we was dating fairly quickly. It was like seven, eight months. Things went left. You know, she went out for a couple months. I still was in. She found out that, you know, I was messing with a couple other people there. That's what they said, allegedly.

I wasn't really. Other women that were there? Yeah, other C.O. A little player? So I ain't going to lie. When I was in, all I cared about, I was the cool guy. I cared about the women, the money. And I said, I didn't really care about the drama.

If you knew me, if you was on my unit, they'd tell you. I had like, the females used to be on my unit all day. They come to my unit, talk to me, chill, bring food, bring snacks, everything. I even had, like, a lieutenant, like, she loved me. She used to bring me food every day. This is how it was in the feds, too. Yeah, so my girl at the time, she didn't, she overheard because she was out. She overheard what was going on.

When she got back to the drill, we still continued to, like, mess around, but it was like, low key. I didn't really, I felt like we was going to drift away. So I started dating another woman. I went on vacation with that woman. She found out about it. The day I came back, I remember it was a Tuesday. I just flew back from Puerto Rico. She put a restraining order on me. False allegations. So how they treated me after is why I left. The first thing, the first. I got back. It was a Tuesday. I'm just getting into the airport. I pick up my car. I had a brand new Dodge Durango, 2024. Pick up my car. My rifle bag is in my trunk with my weapon in it. So I get back to the jail. First thing I do when I come off my flight, I go straight to work. My uniform is already pressed and in my locker. I left it there all the time like that. I would keep three uniforms in there. I never, I always changed after I never went home in uniform, ever. So I get to the jail.

I'm changing. Next thing you know, I get a call on my unit. They're like, hey, Rouse, come to the centerkeeper, you've got to turn your weapon in, your weapon card. And I'm like, for what? So now they're not telling me. So I'm thinking, like, something happened, like something different happened. I'm not thinking a woman I was dating, you know, cross me like that. So they finally tell me what happening.

like, yo, listen, she's saying these allegations, blah, blah, blah. So she put a restraint on all you. So you got to move. You got to transfer again. So now they're trying to transfer me to ADTC, which is right next door. So I'm like, cool. I'm cool we're going to ADTC. I can retire there.

That's fine. An hour later, they come back. Take the paper for ADTC and say, hey, no, they don't want you at ADTC. You got to go to Northern. Now, everybody knows Northern State Prison is a prison they send you to when they just want to get rid of you when they're trying to make you get fired or something like that. So I'm like, listen, I'm not going to Northern. Send me back to the train and I'm leaving.

I'm like, because these allegations is fake. Like she's lying. She's mad because I heard her feelings. Like, um, so they sent me to Northern. I stayed there for like two weeks. First day I'm about to get into a fight because now I'm mentally messed up. I'm like, I'm hurt. My feelings hurt.

I'm like the person that I, you know, trusted has crossed me and I'm big on loyalty. So first day I know that I'm about to fight. First day. And then me or another? Yeah, he just was, he was agavey and me. And it wasn't enough that he did personally. Like, he didn't say not a disrespectful. He just was, he was one of those guys on the unit who thought he could do what he wanted.

And at this point, I'm already angry because this is all happening. I don't want to be here. So I'm just like, yo, can't. You just lock in, chill, like, and he's just talking. He's thinking I'm a rookie because I'm at a new jail. So he's like, oh, he's a rookie. He got a clean uniform. He's going off.

When I tell you, I spas down on this guy, next thing you know, a week later, they give me no inmate contact. So now they're putting me, like, in towers and booths by myself. I can't see the public. I can't interact with other CEOs. I'm like, am I in jail? Like, am I the one incarcerated? So that's when I left. That's when I resigned.

You didn't give it any thought. You just said I'm out? Any thought, I just jumped. I just jump. I just jump. I wish I would have stayed, though, because it was good. It wasn't a bad gig at all. But I felt like they played with me too much.

I've been in three jails in five years. Could you have came back from that situation? Yeah. Yeah. So you just acted a little too hastily. So I could have, the reason why I could have came back was because I had a lot of higher-ups that was that loved me. So they pulled for me. They wanted to fire me. It was a lieutenant and

she looked out for me. She called, you know, downtown Trenton and was just like, no, this kid is good. Like, he's not a bad kid at all. Look out for him. Like, don't try to give him any charges or anything like that. Sweep it under the rug. Like, I do with everybody else. Because one thing about DOC, I promise you, a lot of white boys get DUIs, get arrested, they never get in trouble. but if you're black and it happens to you, they're going to get you out of there. They try to make samples out of you. So, I mean, the lieutenant looked out for me. So the job was secured, but the minute I resigned, it was funny.

As soon as I resign, I get three letters in the mail. They gave me the charges that they wanted to initially give me. Like shots or incident reports? It's like a jail report. It's like it stays on your foul, though. So what is that like your state employment record? Yeah, so they gave me like, I got charged with like not having my weapon in the proper area or something like that. Something simple.

And then they gave me a bunch of like little dumb charges for my time and attendance just so they could make a paper trail. You get what I'm saying? And I left too fast. I should have just stayed and just thugged it out. But I felt like, damn, you know, imagine being. a good person, turning your life around. I'm trying to be a good officer and y'all treating me like I'm an inmate. I'm on my inmate.

I'm on as well leave. I'm out. So I left. How do you feel the next day? I wasn't, I was happy at first. First couple of months, I didn't feel it because, you know, I still was, I saved up a lot of money before I left. That was another thing.

I used to work a lot of 16-hour shifts. So I had a nice little lump sum. saved up and I had a plan and everything. But then first couple months, I still was traveling. So I started taking trips. I'm like just to get my mind off of what's going on. So I didn't really feel it until like I want to say like seven, eight months later. I'm like, damn, I just gave up my career for a woman. Like before I met her, I was good. I was like chilling. I just gave with my career for her. Like, so I was, I was hurt at my mom.

What do you end up doing after? What do you do now? A trainer. So I just recently was at LA Fitness. I was one of the training directors there. So I'm into like fitness fully now. I want to eventually open up my own gym, you know. It did give me time, though.

The time that I was out, because I wasn't in the jail so much, I was working like overnight job security, doing small stuff like there training during the day. I had a lot of free time to focus on me and rebuilding me. I went to therapy. I was able to sit with myself in the mirror. And that's when I started writing my book. I initially started writing it inside the jail because we had nothing to do. Couldn't read books.

You couldn't watch TV. You couldn't really do much. So I would take scrap paper and just write from there. I took that, sat down for a couple months a year after. and I just started sketching out my book. So it worked out pretty well. It wasn't really bad. What do you think is the biggest misconception about prisons

that the public gets wrong or something that maybe you even discovered? They think that it's dangerous. They think that, now, don't get me wrong, it is a dangerous place, but it's not as dangerous as they say it is. A lot of these guys in there look at it as high school still because it runs just like a high school.

school. They go to school, they go to the yard, they get lunch, and they go back in the room and chill with their boys. They get the COLA boys from the block. I think another thing is that they also believe that it's not ran a certain way. But when I tell you, I've been to three different prisons, and when I say each has their own structure, Trenton is probably top tier when it comes to movements and like everything being in alignment if it's not they know something's off something's going to happen raw away was a little loose you know it was open northern was the same way but when it came the structure the jails are very they ran properly so it's not it's not really a scary place um it's just a place you don't want to be it's filthy dirty nothing's on time um

there's always something going on. So it's not a place you want to be. Why do you think you needed to experience both the street life and also the total opposite? Honestly, I tell people this all the time. I think God sent me that way to take that job to show me where I could have been. Because the minute I walked in the jail,

I said, yo, I couldn't imagine doing this. I can't imagine sitting in the cell for two days. I'm going to be, I see why they aggravated. So I'm happy I was able to get that second chance because most people don't get it. Most people do not get it. I lost a lot of friends to the streets, a lot. I lost more to the jail.

You got a little adult scared straight program. Yeah, the funny part, I went to the street street street. Oh, you did? Yes. Wow. Seventh grade, I went to the street street street. It didn't work out, though. Well, I guess that kind of worked out.

It was funny because it didn't at the time because we knew the people. Like, the inmates that was that they, you know, told to buck up and like, because it's all the show. They pretend to do that stuff. So we knew them. Me and my friends already knew who they were from the street. So we just laughed. Like, it was funny. It wasn't nothing to us.

Like I said, the only wake-up call that really shocked me was me actually getting shot. I think if I would have never got shot, I probably would have never. I probably would be in jail or dead because I still would have been living that same life my ego was very big I didn't like I used to like when people knew I did something

just so they know like I'm not the person to play with but at the time now that I realized that it was just all ego I wasn't as tough as I thought I was like I've done more tough things now in my adult age than when I was younger running the streets.

Well, Laquan, I appreciate you coming on the show today. Appreciate you for having me, man. Yeah, this was a great conversation. I wish you the best for the future. Thank you.