Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a Rikers Island Prison Guard — Then I Got Fired | Nick Gojcaj

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

Nick Gojcaj grew up in Queens dreaming of becoming an NYPD cop, but after that didn’t work out, he spent 20 years in the corporate world before making a drastic career change in his 40s—joining Rikers Island as a corrections officer. For three years he worked inside one of America’s most notorious jails, dealing with chaos, violence, and the daily dangers of being a prison guard, until a confrontation with inmates left him permanently disabled. Instead of protecting him, Rikers illegally terminated his job, sparking a legal battle that he’s still fighting today. In this episode, Nick opens up about his journey from the academy to life on the inside, the shocking realities of working at Rikers, and how he’s now exposing the system that betrayed him. #RikersIsland #PrisonGuard #CorrectionsOfficer #NYCPrisons #RikersStories #PrisonLife #LawEnforcement #CorruptionExposed Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Use code LOCKEDIN for 20% OFF Wooooo Energy Buy Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00 Prison Realities and Riker's Introduction 00:19 Nick's Unusual Career Path 01:51 Favorite Episodes and Influential People 03:21 Union Perks, Disability, and Department Politics 04:23 Growing Up: Family and Childhood Influences 05:21 School Trouble and Early Aspirations 06:12 Drinking, Gambling, and Avoiding Trouble 08:09 Crime, Arrests, and a Flawed System 09:49 Stable Home vs. Turbulent Friends 10:57 From College Hopes to Law Enforcement Dreams 13:09 College Life and NYPD Rejection 14:35 Corporate World: Two Decades Lost 16:08 Career Pivot: Joining Corrections at 44 17:43 Correctional Academy: Training Realities 20:08 Academy vs. Real World at Rikers 22:47 Early Days on the Job & Learning from Inmates 26:03 Systemic Issues: Contraband, Corruption, and Challenges 29:39 Schedules, Overtime, and Hidden Job Hazards 33:09 Facing Reality: Dangerous Shifts, Staff Politics 36:14 Respect, Dignity, and Handling Inmates 39:41 Violence, Use of Force, and Officer Dilemmas 43:00 The Incident and Long-Term Injury 47:34 Aftermath: Desk Duty, Recovery, and Abrupt Firing 53:46 Legal Fight and Alleged Retaliation 58:39 Department Corruption and Favoritism 01:02:02 Lawsuit, Motivation, and Moving Forward 01:06:10 Advice, Support, and Closing Thoughts Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Your life deserves music. Your music deserves Bose. Find your perfect product at Bose.com. Imagine if you're out there minding your business and stuff, and let's say they want your commissary. You as a regular kid, as a white-collar criminal, because essentially that's what you are. You're going to be targeted.

You're no threat to me. I can take you on. this is what I do. I rob people. And you're not. So you're going to give in. And I'll just go to your cell while you're there. What are you going to do? Officers not going to do anything because we're afraid to do our jobs. Nick Goichai thought he was destined to wear the NYPD badge. After studying criminal justice and chasing that dream, life took him down a different road, two decades in the corporate world. But in his 40s, Nick traded the desk for danger, stepping inside Rikers Island as a prison guard. Just three years into the job, a violent confrontation with inmates left him disabled.

and then, shockingly, illegally terminated. Now he's fighting back, taking on one of the toughest systems in the country. Nick, welcome to Lockton. Thanks so much for coming. Oh, thanks for having me, Ian. I really appreciate for you to guys giving this platform come out and tell my side of the story of what happened here with this case. It's really bizarre. And they need to be exposed.

And I want to protect others who are in a similar situation as me. Yeah. And our audience really appreciates the Riker Island stories. Yeah, yeah, I have some stories to tell, you know, that most people find cool and really out there. Yeah, and we were just talking out there about favorite episodes of the show. You asked me and Matt, what our favorite episodes were. Did you have a favorite of the show? In terms of, is it the Rikers Island stuff or just over it stuff on your channel?

Yeah, yeah, you seemed really interesting. The one with the Wolf of Wall Street. Nadine. Yeah, that was really cool. Obviously, how many people have watched the Wolf of Wall Street? You know, it's a classic movie. and to say, oh, wow, his wife. Never did it in a million years.

I think I'd be interviewing her, like when I was a kid watching that because I came out in 2013 when I was a senior in high school. Right. So crazy to see it now. And her energy is great. Great storyteller, great speaker.

Yeah, yeah. That one, I watched the Norman Seabrook episode. I'd never spoken to him. Me and him are friends on social media. We DM each other, but we've never actually met in person. And I'll tell you what, with everything that went on with him,

you know how many people speak highly of him people speak about him they're like especially the old timers there who were under his regime they speak about him like he's god like he made things happen the department of corrections he's a good man i like him smooth i still don't understand what he technically did i from what i understand i don't know myself either but something something to do with the finances of of um the union funds and he did something and and i don't know exactly but something along the lines of that But you didn't lose, like, you're a part of the union. You didn't lose money.

I couldn't even tell you because it happened before I came on. Oh, okay. So when I came on, he was already doing time. Gotcha, gotcha, got you. But yeah, he's a good dude. Great storyteller. We love hanging out with him and stuff. We'll get dinner with him from time to time.

And he's just, I could see why people love him. He's got away with words that we love repeating, hi. I'm Norman Seabrook. He's so good. I guess he used to do radio and stuff back in the day, too. I don't even know. I just know him as, I know that he was our union president. and that he made the list of top 50 most influential people in New York City at some point when he was there.

So if you make the top 50 of anything, kudos to you, you know? Yeah, he was telling us how he passed that bill where the correctional officers would get a stipend, I guess, every December. Yes, yes, yes. It was his leadership fighting for that and also three-quarter disability. Corrections was not getting it. So NYPD got it. Now, there are sister department, brother-and-sister departments. And at some point, NYPD, the city was offered NYPD officers of three-quarter disability and not corrections.

And he fought out there and said, how's that possible? How do you give people the same job pretty much? And not the same disabilities. And he fought for that as well as the stipend, like you said, it's a $12,000 stipend paid once a year. At some point in December. But that goes down as taxable, like it's a bonus. And anybody who's ever received a bonus for anything knows that's roughly a 50% tax. It's a lot.

Yeah. So it ends up being $6,000. But hey, you know what? Give it to me if you don't want it. Where did you grow up, Nick? Where are you from? Originally born in Detroit, Michigan. Grew up in Queens, Farsallis, New York.

And so, Florida is those Queens. And around my mid-20s moved to the Bronx. Well, why do you guys move from Michigan to? That was my parents. They didn't ask me. I was like three years old. So, you know, wherever they went, I went. What did your parents do for work? My mom was a stay-at-home mom as well as she was doing real estate part-time, you know, whenever she could fit that in. My father was a resident manager at the building that we grew up in, and he also was doing handyman work in the city. So essentially he was doing two jobs, and my mom was, that's a full-time job as being a stay-at-home mom and doing a part-time job.

So I guess you want to say three-and-half jobs between the two. with him. How are you as a kid growing up? How would you describe yourself? Wise ass. Rebellious a little. But not rebellious where it's like facing time, but you know, it did get in trouble with school often and give the teachers a hard time. Always had a wise ass comment. So if you, you know, you gave me some kind of demerits, I'm going to find something there to hang on, you know, whether you have a cheap car or, or, you know, you're ugly, you're fat, you know, whatever it is, I'm going to find something there to hold on to so I could make fun of you, mock you in class type of guy.

Almost a clown, if you want to say. Yeah. How did you see your future looking when you were a kid? Did you have dreams, goals, aspirations? Of course. Yeah, I had aspirations. I felt extremely short of that. Like most kids had dreams of somehow making MLB or the NBA and that didn't pan out at all

because, you know, very few people ever making. You need to put into work at the end of the day. you need to obsess over it and then I didn't do that I was content with just being the neighborhood guy and playing ball and being good at it there

amongst my peers but not good enough to make it to a professional level which like I said it's every kid's dream what about career-wise aside from that were you thinking like a certain type

like did you think you were going to go into some type of law enforcement at the time when you were a kid? Oh when I was a kid honestly I didn't have like a vision I always felt that something's gonna open up at some point and I'll take, you know, I'll roll the dice and someone's going to open up a door for me

or someone's going to lead me into some sort of direction. I didn't know what I really wanted to do. I really didn't. Of course, my parents would tell me, hey, be a doctor, be a lawyer. I wasn't like a top student, you know, I was a 70, 75 student. You know, I wasn't a B plus, A minus type, no. What were your friends into? What was your friend group like?

cars drinking and stuff somewhere into drugs I wasn't but I did start drinking at a young age and did stop in my mid-20s and I basically maybe have one beer a year if that much now almost hardly any alcohol amount Why is that?

Didn't like the feeling and sometimes I'd be the guy there that I couldn't just drink to get a buzz I had to get retarded drunk to keep going, keep going, keep going, and over a sudden, you know, you have regrets the next day about what you said or what you did.

And too many times I would say I'm sorry. I didn't realize I said that or I didn't realize I didn't mean it or whatever. And so I was like, you know what? Soda or water, good enough from now on. Do you think you had issues of self-control at that time? Oh, without doubt. So I went from drinking to gamble.

And even that I've recently curtailed, so I don't even do that really anymore. Why drugs? I mean, why not drugs? Why did you avoid them when your friends did them? There was this guy. I don't want to say his name. But there was this guy that there was a clear drug addict. He was fucked up.

And I said to myself, I don't want to be like that guy. If there's even a 1% chance, that's too high. I want nothing about that guy appealed to me. And I said, I'll never admit. No thanks. I have zero interest in that. Thank you. I'll do the drinking part.

Yeah. Out of all your friends, how many went off into successful careers versus how many maybe ended up in prison? The prison part, as far as like doing life or in my interest? Anything, yeah.

Any type of criminal activity. But almost everybody I know has been arrested for something. You know, it could be either for a drunk driving, fighting at a bar, and then, you know, they give you like an ACD, which is an adjournment contemplating dismissal.

I'll say almost everybody did. I couldn't give you a number, but if I was just to guess, I would say probably 75, 80% in that range. What do you think that tells you about the criminal justice system? It's extremely flawed. Our system, you know, when you look at these numbers, you just never know what the data is in terms of

what's accurate, what's rigged. But we lead the planet in incarcerated, incarcerated, incarcerating our own people per 100,000. So our system here fundamentally we're wrong. I don't have the answer, but I can tell you that whatever we're doing is not the right way. Something is wrong. I don't know if it starts at school. Obviously, it starts at home.

But is it the school? Is it the value system? Broken homes? It's a lot of possibilities. The friends that did get arrested, did they have broken homes? Some, yeah, some know. you know, maybe abusive parents or like you said,

broken home or influenced by quick buck here or there or I could get away with this or you get away with once and all you need to do is get away with quote quote something once get a score

and now you're hooked you can't go back to a regular job I can't go make $2,000 on a hit or a score right now and then go go get a job making $15 an hour are you freaking kidding me? You know how hard that is, Ian?

It's hard. Cuddle those of the people that can actually do it, just get the hit one time and then walk away. Would you say that you grew up in a stable home when you look at it compared to some of the people that you've encountered that were, you know, even in prison? Stable, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had a mom and dad at home, you know, they weren't in love. My parents, definitely not. But, you know, I would say they're just like regular people who have a two-parent household. Did you end up going to college? Yes.

Where did you go? I went to John Jay College. For criminal justice? For criminal justice, correct. So somewhere along high school, you decide that you want to go into law enforcement? At some point, because there was also like the older guys in my neighborhood that were retiring in like their 40s and 50s and have their pension. And I was like, you know what? I could do that.

I could do what they're doing. I'm not, you know, I'm not really scared. I had the energy and I had the gung-ho attitude. I'm like, okay, let me try to give this a shot. what about it you think piqued your interest the most? Potentially retiring instead of the 67 of where we collect Social Security of, you know, retiring in your 40s and starting a totally brand new career with a full pension. And I knew three, four guys from the park, they were obviously all older.

They're like, father figures. And I was like, okay, I could do that. And they're telling me it's not that hard, you know. Of course, in the beginning they give you the worst posts and, you know, you're on the projects, chasing crackheads and stuff. with, but no lights in a staircase. That's not fun. So when you went to college for criminal justice, your goal, or the end goal was become a cop?

Right. At that point, yeah. Tell us about going to school for criminal justice. It was easy. It was nothing. What was it like? Go to school and, you know, study past the class, and that's it. I just wanted to get the, meet the minimum qualification.

I wasn't trying to be like the Einstein of the school. You know what I'm saying? I was like, oh, let me just keep my, make my parents. It's proud. You know, they're from immigrant household. So going to college, being the first one in my family to go to college was a big deal. And I said, okay, let me at least get the degree and hold my hat. So like a feather of my hat.

What were some of the classes like? Like what kind of classes do you take? What do you call, like, the stuff that everyone has to take? And then like 80% of the courses are mandatory. And then the criminal justice, it was easy. It's like if you apply yourself towards it, This is not rocket science here that they were talking about. You know what I'm saying?

If I went to chemistry school or something, I'm going to have a lot of issues. But this is pretty much I felt like it was common sense stuff. It doesn't, you know, have to be too bright. Now, was it a requirement to become an NYPD officer at the time or to go to school for criminal justice? At that point when I had applied, which I got denied, I think you needed 60 or 30. I really forget it's a long time ago. Just college or criminal justice? No, no, just college at all.

Okay. Just any kind of thing. You could have it for freaking pouring glass into a, I mean, milk into a glass. It didn't make a difference as long as you have, I think the 30 or 60. So would you end up doing four years in college? Yeah. And you graduated and applied right away to the force?

I applied to it and I was denied by the NYPD. So my best friend had passed away in front of me when I was 23 years old. And rest in peace, Dennis. And so I had failed a sight because, They asked me what was the most traumatic experience that you ever encountered. So I broke down crying because this is about a week, possibly two weeks. I don't remember the exact days.

It was a long time ago. And I said, you know, explaining to my best friend's parents that their son literally just died in front of me. And he had a heart attack. And I broke down crying. I mean, just gushing, gush. I probably cried in the interview more than I did at the funeral. And they said, oh, well, we can't accept this guy because he has a problem dealing with death. And obviously if you're a cop, you know, you deal with death pretty often. And so they failed

me. How'd that make you feel? Violated. But it took me a long time to accept their angle, even though I vehemently disagreed with their stance on it because, you know, going out there, going through an experience like that versus going out there and having seen some junkie overdose. Believe me, that's not going to bother me. I just fill out the paperwork, do whatever I'm supposed to do. And, you know, maybe have a cup of coffee after and just move on with my day. It would not face me, not the slightest bit. I mean, it would be just like talking to you. Like, hey, you know, Joe Schmoe right there.

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or were you trying to hop back on the saddle and reapply again? because I think sometimes there's a way to apply after you get rejected. Right, yeah, you could do that. You could reapply and stuff. And I went into the corporate world. And, you know, that's no different than any other world out there. They change stipulations on the pay, on the bonuses, on the coverage constantly. And at that point, I said to myself, I need to reapply and get into some kind of union or city job or something where there's black and white.

You have a contract. Year one, you make this, year two, and these are benefits, and this time long until, you know, you get to retire. I said, you know what? Let me stop effing around and just do this city job thing. How long were you in corporate for? Roughly, 20 years. 20 years? Oh, wow.

So you waited 20 years to become a correctional officer? Yeah, I started at 44 as a correctional officer. Whoa. So you go 20 years working corporate and one day you wake up and you just say, I need a union job? Yeah. Well, the way you just described it is a lot simpler than it really happened. So I was a distribution manager and safety manager at Coca-Cola in Massachusetts. And it got sold off to this corporation.

Coca-Cola divided it and sold it privately. It said, okay, this New York City region, we'll call it Liberty Coke. And now I'm dealing with, you know, just a regular person who obviously clearly has a lot of money. And I said, guess what? you don't have a pension anymore. Your bonus structure, they literally made it impossible to make a freaking penny extra.

And no more pensions. And I'm like, whoa, I'm like 44 years old. I don't have, you know, I'm not making like a fortune where I could save money to live when I, and I said, you know what? I ran into some other guys, correction officers,

and they told me how much money they were making and he started at 48. And how much money he was making. I was like, bullshit. And he pulled out his phone, he showed me his paycheck. And I said, okay. So like that kid,

Stephen Dominguez and how he was hooked on the job with that. Same thing with this guy. He told me everything that I had just lost at my Coca-Cola job was what corrections was offering. And I remember telling my girl, I said, I'm making a career change. I'm going to Rikers Island. I'm going to do this. Were you thinking about working in criminal justice over the course of those 20 years? Or did that could put to the side once you were in the kind of the flow of work in corporate?

It got put to the side because I was like, okay, I still have my pension here. It's not going to be as much money or the, you know, like, the total package is going to be less value, but I'm content because I don't have to deal with inmates and deal with all the nonsense that you have to deal with. So I was cool with that, but then guess what? They took that away, too. Wow, that's kind of incredible that you went a whole career

and then you decided to switch at that age. And switch at that age, and I met three correction officers, and they told me everything I want that I was missing. And I salute them. I still thank them to this day. So was it hard to apply at that age? No, it's easy. No, there's no age limit.

No age. You'd be 60 years old and applying to Rikers? Yes. Interesting. Yes. All right, so you... 54 was, though, I thought I'd be the oldest one in my academy. In my specific academy, which was 430 people, roughly.

The oldest person there was 54. Do you know what his backstory was? No, because they divide us into separate classes, according to our last name. So it's like an increments of 25 in alphabetical order. So he wasn't... He was the term is called company. he was in a different company in the academy but we all know like

this guy's significantly older than everybody else I thought I'd be the oldest at 44 now this guy beat me by 10 years All right so you apply you get into the academy Right how long was that Academy I started on February 11th 2019

and the Academy ended July 31st of 2019 So what's that 5 and a half months Something like that Just under six months What was the most difficult thing about it for you they're just

it's sort of like you ever watch a movie Full Metal Jacket? All right well in the beginning of the scene we get the draw sergeant yelling and screaming at everybody and somehow everything you do was wrong even breathing somebody's breathing blinking

and everything is a punishment everything is push-ups push-ups and they try enforce like team unity and then for the first couple of days they beat you up like that and then after that if Ian messes up

everyone's got to pay for us So the whole company, so all 25 of us has to pay for your mistake. And so that's what that was like. And then they slowly take their foot off the gas as time goes along. It becomes basically just like a show-up job as time goes along because they already established what the penalties are. We don't want to forcefully do 25 push-ups or keep doing push-ups until you're shaking. Was the physical aspect of it hard?

For me, no. I don't know. It was easy. It was easy. I mean, don't get me wrong. I wasn't like the push-up king, but I was still very athletic and strong, and I was still keeping up with basically everybody except like the superior younger guys. I couldn't run and go in with them, but I kept up with almost everybody.

Do you feel like you were mentally trained for what was to come at Rikers during the academy? No. No, they do a bad job of training you. Why do you think that is? Because they train you in perfect world scenarios. they say hey I apologize but I'll just keep using your name as like when when inmate Bick acts up you write him an infraction

and he's going to stop he's going to listen after that watch bullshit bullshit so they don't teach you they teach you perfect world scenarios where Ian Bix is going to say okay Officer Goy Chai

I'm sorry I'm going to listen please don't write that infraction you know they act like like that infraction is like the equivalent of an atomic bomb which it's not. So they do a poor, extremely poor job of actually coaching you. It's like, it's like,

imagine if you're taking a driving test or you go to driving school and they take you to like, let's say, the Danbury Mall to drive around, and then the reality is you're going to be driving in Midtown Manhattan. That's not training then, what you learned at the Danbury Mall.

It's a night and day difference. And that's the academy. They teach you black and white, black and white, rules and regs. They do mention that. But when they apply, the teach us how to apply it, that's where they fall extremely short.

So do you think you bought into it or were you kind of seeing through? I knew they were full of shit. Even as a new rookie? Absolutely. I knew they were full of shit. I knew it. Based on stories you've heard?

Stories I've heard. Yeah. I knew some people. And they would tell me what you can hear there. And then all of a sudden. So here's something here. They don't tell us that the cell doors don't work.

Most of the cell doors don't work there. I'd say about 75, 80% don't work. So how am I supposed to handle that then? Like literally, you close the door, you say that's it, you're locked in, and they pop out like it's a freaking closet. What are you supposed to do? At 9 o'clock, 9 o'clock is lockdown. 930, 940, you see guys coming out of the, it's like Grand Central Station.

It's 31, yeah, it's insane. They don't teach us that. And guess what? In the academy, since locking is at 9 o'clock at night, in the academy when they send us on OJT this is the beautiful part they don't let us stay there past nine o'clock on OJT just to corrupt our minds to say

oh well what you missed is going to be a perfect execution of everybody going in at nine o'clock that's a complete lie it's a disaster the only place you're going to get those kind of people compliant at nine o'clock are people who are doing their time and the one year or less

the inmates like me Yeah, but at Rikers now with bail reform, guys like you don't exist in there. That's not happening. So everyone there is real serious, violent stuff. So guys like you would make bail and they're not going to be there. Or no bail, I should say. This is 2019. There's plenty of social media at this point.

Tons of stuff going on about Rikers. Right. That didn't turn you off at all. Like I know some of the other guards we've had on or officers, they joined before social media, this era of social media. Right. So you're a young guy. Did you see any of that and be like, well, I don't want to do any of this? No, I was supremely confident in myself that I could make it work for me.

I went in there with zero doubt, zero doubt, because I knew that it's not like I'm some kind of like criminal mastermind or something, but at the end of the day, even criminals want to be treated with respect and dignity. And I just knew that if I just did my job and don't treat you as inmate Bick, the child molester, or Ian Bick, the murderer, just treat you as inmate Bick. and give you what's called, what the department calls the minimum standard. So give you what you're supposed to get. It's not that difficult. Are you glad that you joined at a later age rather than fresh out in your 20s? Yes. I couldn't have handled it if I started, just me knowing the way I was at, you know, let's say at 25 or even 30.

Hell no. Hell no, I would have been fired. Hell you, no, because one of these guys would have triggered me would have said something smart. And I would say, let's go, bro. It's on. Let's go. Say that shit again. Yeah, you're a different person.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'd go at that 44 and then whatever it is, I'm like, whatever it is, bro, we can figure out a way to de-escalate this whole situation. And I knew that. I knew that. Because at that point, I'm experiencing life at 44. Like I say, 25, 30. I'm just no different than these guys. So going in at that age, did you plan to work a full like 20 years to get retirement?

Yeah, it's 22 years. So my plan was to stay until 66. Okay. And then retire. So it did push back kind of your plan from when you were a kid. Yeah, it did pull it back. But, you know, life happens. Very few things in life happened according to, exactly, go according to plan.

You know, so, yeah, I was throwing some cardboards. What was your mindset going into it? Like, were you happy to be there on day one? Yeah, I was. Actually, I would actually smile often. And my captains who would, they would look at me like, this guy's never really complaining because I didn't. I didn't complain. I mean, I saw the bullshit, but I just knew that they're my captain.

So, you know, like, they're doing the best they can also. and I never would complain and she actually pulled me to the side and said what's wrong with you? I said what? She said you never complain, you never asked for a specific post. Everybody else here is like trying to bribe me or do some kind of favors like

please put me in over it. I'm like cap because I came here to do 22 years. There's going to be bad days there's going to be good days. It is what it is. I know what I signed up for. What was your first assignment? Oh, well your first you mean first day after the academy? Yeah, first day.

you get there, where are they assigned me? Yeah, they're going to put you, they put me in a blood house. What's that? A room with 31 blood members. Tell us about that. Oh, nice guys. No, they actually, they actually were. You know what I'm saying?

I didn't have like issue. I wasn't getting spit on anything. And they could tell that they knew and stuff and fresh out the academy. And believe it or not, Ian, you'll learn more from the inmates about how to do your job than you will with the, in the academy. Now, did they listen at Lock In at 9 o'clock? No. They still did whatever the hell they wanted. But, you know, I'm running out there like a chicken with my, with no head on.

Like, okay, well, on the rules of reg, say 9 o'clock. And you're out here making your commissary meal together and it's 930. Yeah, with the hot pot, you know, ran out of water. And we have to stay here. Well, I'm the guy who does the custodial janitorial stuff. Oh, well, that one right there, he's on suicide. I mean, they had a litany of excuses. So what were those rules that the inmates taught you?

Or how did they teach you to do your job? They knew how to act when the captains came around, which made my job easier. So like I say, they closed all their cell doors when the captain would come around. Just out of respect for the captain. And then for me, so this way the captain is under the impression, a false impression. Like, oh, everything's running smooth over here. Officer Gortzai, you're awesome. stuff like that.

And also about the logbook entries. Did you see other new officers get taken advantage of? I know you said you didn't, but did other... Without doubt. All kinds of officers, not just new. Even the veterans can be taken advantage of. Everybody has a weakness. Everybody can be exploited.

It doesn't matter. Newer... I would say the younger ones can be exploited easier than, let's say, someone like myself who's older. You know, I'm not for... You know, like I'm not going to be impressed with the $1,000 offer that you just offered me. But someone that's, let's say, 23 years old is not really thinking, like, oh, let me get this $1,000, bring in whatever it is that they're asking for a cell phone or drugs or liquor or whatever. Yeah, it's easier to bait them than you can the 44-year-old.

So do you think money is the biggest weakness? Yeah, money, we all want it. You know what I'm saying? Like, let's face it. The starting pays like $50,000 a year. So they live in New York City It's not taking you very far So you know

You can cover some of your bills real quick With the and all I have to do Is bringing a cigarette A carton of cigarettes Or a cell phone for a certain inmate Yeah I get places full of drugs and cigarettes And contraband loaded

Loaded like a bodega, like a deli So if the system paid the officers more Do you think contraband issues decrease? Yes but not completely Of course nothing's ever going to be 100% but naturally. I mean, they're doing it for the money. I mean, all that money they spend prosecuting and investigating officers, couldn't that be used for higher salaries?

That would make sense, right? Yeah. That would make sense. But again, we go back into the criminal justice system that we were just talking about, which is incredibly flawed. What were some of the things you were seeing that didn't really sit right with you about Rikers when your first weeks, months on the job? Man, we'd have to do another episode about that.

Give us like something that really stood out. The officers that they did not like would not get relieved. So let's say hypothetically they don't like you. I'll call you Officer Bick. Oh, Officer Bick, I'm the person in charge. I don't like Officer Bick. He mouthed off or he did something there. I'm going to teach him a lesson.

I'm going to send him to a bad housing area where the guys are not compliant, put you in position there to get disciplined for it. And then guess what? I'm going to make you do four out of four. meaning over there we had four-day rotations. Four days on, two days off, four days on, two days off. So four out of fours means four days on, four days of double shifts. So you're doing 16 hours, four days in a row.

And then that's a way to really stick it to you and make you quit. And it works. What were some things that you would have to do as an officer to get them to not like you to that degree? That's individual humans. You know, like, I don't know what your triggers are, but maybe I make a comment or maybe I complain in it too much, oh, I'm tired of doing this, or I'm tired of working overtime,

or why does that guy get to stay in the cafeteria post and I get to go, you know, oh, yeah, really? You're going to come to me with that? I got you. Go to quad up a one. You're going to do four out of fours. How's that? Don't ever open your mouth to me.

Did they ever do that to you? No. No, I was liked. I was liked by my coworkers as well as my captains and ADWs. I never had issues with them like that at all, ever. Why do you think they liked you? Well, I treated everybody with respect.

I just came and did my job and I didn't complain. You gave me the assignment. You know those crappy? It is what it is. Like I said, I knew what I signed up for it to do 22 years. And also, I didn't want to complain because I don't want to be like those guys doing four out of fours. You know? Did you have a good schedule?

No, I was, everybody gets four days on, two days off. Nobody gets five days, like a steady, steady five days straight. So once you're in the jail, you're doing four days on, two days off, regardless of what. Do you think that's a beneficial perk? Or would money be more important? I'd say money is more important. But it's also a beneficial perk because then nobody gets Saturday, Sunday, often. So hypothetically, this week, the four and twos lies, I'm off on Saturday and Sunday.

That means next week, I'm off on Friday and Saturday. The week after, I'm off on Thursday, Friday. The week after that would be Wednesday, Thursday. And so, you know, so just take the set of four and move it backwards one day. And I think it's fair because there's no favoritism then. Everybody's got the same days off, two days on. And you're still getting full-time hours and full-time pay? Yeah, yeah.

So you're still working 40 hours a week. So hypothetically, you're working four days off two and now you came in for a fifth. So that's still five days, five days in a seven-day week. Yeah. At all times. And your job is hourly or salary? hourly. I mean, essentially it's salary for 40 hours, and then if we work over 40, then you get overtime. And there's mandated overtime at Rikers?

Yeah, they're not asking you. Yeah, yeah. You can only leave when you physically hand that key to another officer. You're not, you can't just say, hey, you know what, I am tired. My eight hours are up. I'm going home. Not happening. You leave that post like that, they made it's a real slick. So if they see you did something like that, they're going to purposely get into a fight. to create a lawsuit and say, oh, I got injured because there was no officer on duty, and you're going to get fired. That's abandoning post. You're going to get fired. And an enemy gets injured? City has to pay that. Oh, yeah, you're fired.

So do they explain that to you in the academy or even before you apply that it's mandated over time? No, when they apply, everything, they don't tell you any of the hazards and landmines that you're going to be facing. When you're applying, they say, oh, come in. Look at the pay structure here. Look at retired 20 year, a young guy. Come in. My uncle, my dad's

All kinds of stuff to just bait you into it And then, you know, once you're in the academy You start here. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost.

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still taken the job? Yes. Why is that? Because I felt I could do the job. I could do it. No question about it. What was the first, like, real situation you encountered where you're like, wow, the Academy did not train us for this? So they teach us defensive fighting techniques. In the academy, there's 10 separate days of like techniques. I could assure you, nobody uses one of them. So the city essentially paid us two weeks to learn these techniques. They say, I don't even remember the names of the stuff.

It's not being applied in real life. And I remember my first time I got into a scuffle with a guy. It wasn't really a scuffer. I was just trying to handcuff him and he was resisting and then we dropped to the floor. So it appeared like it was a scuffle. he didn't hit me, I didn't hit him. And I'm saying, while I'm trying to, like, get his arms, which he's totally resistant, I'm like, geez, which technique?

You know, you're trying to do everything by the book, and you can't. I'm like, oh, which technique? Should I do it? The day six technique? Is it the day three? Oh, I wonder what that technique. In the meantime, I'm trying to, like, wrap himself, and it just nobody uses it. How many months or years were you on the job before you had the issue that would get you

off the job. I was there for three and a half years. Were there any issues over the course of those three years? Issues in terms of... Anything inmate? Like, discipline? That or altercations with inmates? Like, how would you describe those three years? They did try discipline with the cell doors. So I was, you know, a little slick. So I knew that the cell doors don't work. And anytime you got to a use of force, they would always ding you. They always try to suspend you for cell doors not working. So I'm like, okay.

Guess what, motherfucker? You're not going to catch me. And so at the beginning of the shifts, I would always say on my security inspections, self doors don't operate properly. It's unsafe. Captain, whoever the captain was, has been notified. And this is an ongoing situation. You know, just make a little paragraph about three lines.

So I covered myself. And anytime I got written up for that, I say, well, listen, this is going on. And I'll fill out, I would complete work orders every single day. to the maintenance crew, which by the way, they're even worse with the incompetence. Nothing gets fixed.

I mean, nothing. Nothing. It might take six months. So I'm like, okay, cool, this. You wrote me up. I go to my hearing,

say, this is the log book. Captain, when they did their tours, they came and wrote under that, meaning they acknowledged because they're supposed to read what I wrote. And they don't read it. I know that, but they acknowledge it by signing it.

I'm covered. So they try to hail three times to write me. for cell doors like that and and no convictions why do you think it's so hard to get these doors fixed i mean you're not the first confidence all around yeah yeah i've watched a lot of yourself and every single person says the same thing and especially uh the one that went undercover i forget uh he was a undercover coel that went on 60 days in yes that guy yeah he said he said he said it too and they all say it because it's true you think we all made up the same lie but i don't understand why it's

how is it not easy enough to just call or the repair man to come fix the doors and call it a day. They come in same day. Yeah. You mean the repair man to the same ones that I write the work orders for it to come and fix the cell doors and it never gets done that once? Like an outside vendor or something? I guess money, the politics behind the scenes. I couldn't tell you it's above my pay grade, but rest assured what I'm telling you that those cell doors don't work. So how many people would you say are getting hurt because of that? Guards or inmates? Do you want it like per day or per month or year? In general. Like what Do you think people are directly getting hurt?

Of course. Of course. Imagine if you're out there minding your business and stuff. And let's say they want your commissary. You as a regular kid, as a white-collar criminal, because essentially that's what you are. You're going to be targeted, right? You're no threat to me. I can take you on.

This is what I do. I rob people. And you're not. You know what I'm saying? So you're going to give in? And I'll just go into your cell while you're there. What are you going to do? Like, what are you going to do?

Officer's not going to do anything. I'm going to take what I want. Does that happen? Absolutely. Why doesn't the officer do anything? Because we're afraid to do our jobs. Because what happens is the second you get to, if I do something, I say, hey, Mr. Inmate, whatever.

John Doe, why are you going to the big sting? Oh, fuck you, I'm going to get my, I'm hungry. I need to eat. I got to use force to put them back in. I do a report, and every time you do again to a use of force, there's an outside unit that are not officers that are there to try to tag us and say, you know, whatever you did was wrong. You could have to de-escalated.

You didn't have to put your hands on you. You didn't have to spray them. Whatever you did. You're supposed to go left, but you went right. You went right, left. Up, down, whatever it is, they're going to get you. They get off on that. So do you feel like the higher-ups don't have your back

and they've just made it way too bureaucratic and political? Absolutely. When you say higher-ups, it's not, It's not the higher ups in my building. It's not, let's say, the one. This is above them. Oh, it's above them. Yeah, yeah.

It's a different unit. They're not correction officers that do that. Yeah, so they're there, like, they have some kind of animosity towards law enforcement, and this is their way of, like, fighting back and sticking it back to us. And believe me, they do. So they're not individuals that have done 20 years and they're on hire. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

They're regular surveillance. So it's like some type of, like, a board, a board of directors type thing? Yeah, it's a specialized unit, but F them all. Yeah. Well, every single one in those specialized units. Were there any insane type things you were seeing over those three years? Like, what was the worst thing you think you saw? One thing that I wear is like I'm real proud of is because I treat people with respect. Like the same way I speak to you, I speak to them.

I don't have a problem with that. Even though you're a child molester, you're a rapist, you're a murderer, you robber ladies. I still treat everybody with dignity and respect. until you give me a reason not to. And that story that I was just telling before when I was wrestling with the guy trying to cuff him, do you remember that kid that got killed in the Bronx in 2018, the summer of 2018, Jr.?

It was like really big news. I was in prison, so I wouldn't have... All right, so there was this kill in the Bronx section. Junior Gomez, I think his name was. He's 15 years old. He was in a bodega, and it was a mistaken identity. The Dominican gang was looking to kill him. It was all caught on campus.

camera. And they just machete him. They dragged them out literally and just started stabbing him in the middle street like five, six guys. And I was dealing with those guys. I treat everybody respect. So they gave it back to me. I just didn't know they were going to give me that level of respect. So I'm in intake and there's this guy getting beat up by, for whatever reason. So me and my captain, you know, a bunch of us go out there to break up the fight. Me and my captain and up taking the loser. This guy's a little mental. He's a little off.

But whatever. You know, our job is to break up the fight. And we're like, hey, man, what happened? What happened? Well, why are you guys fighting? He's like, I'm not fighting. I'm going to get beat up. I'm like, yeah, see your face.

And he's like, oh, that dude over there, then he spits in my captain's face totally unprovoked, just like that. Now, she's like, obviously it's disgusting that he should get shot for that. But that's beyond inhumane. He's like, she says, cuff that. And she used the end word. I'm not going to say the N-word. Let's just say it's ninja.

Cuff that ninja right now. Cuff him. I take it. He's resisting. And he drops to the floor. I'm on the floor because I got to put the handcuffs. I'm following orders. And those guys, juniors killers.

Or they're watching it. They're in intake. Watching it. It's like they're having fun with it. And eventually, you know, I cuff him and everything. And they're like, yo, gee. My last name is Goy Chai, but a lot of people mispronounces the city called me G. You're good, you're good?

I said, yeah, hey, I'm good. He didn't hit me. And he's like, yo, please, please. They're begging me. Please bring that ninja. Let us get two minutes with him here in the cell at intake. Are you good, though? I said, yeah, I'm good.

I'm 100% good. I'm not even scratched. You know, my uniform is dirty, obviously. And to me, that's when I was like, you know what? I'm doing a very good job there. And those guys, if you see what, you see what they've. viciously did to this kid had my back. And that's not like that with every single officer.

No, of course not, because a lot of them say, oh, you're a murderer. I can't look at you. I can't treat you with respect. You're a child molester, a piece of crap. I get it. And that would have been my attitude to at 25, 30 years old. But in 44, I'm like, listen, I'm here to do a pension. Who do you think I'm dealing with here?

Jehovah Witnesses for 22 years? I knew that this is exactly going to be my. You want to say my clientele? Is that a part of the training to leave stuff at the door like that to be able to... Yes, they do tell you, but you could tell people to do that a million times, and it's very hard. It is hard. Yeah, is either you have it in you or you don't, like you're a not judgmental person or you're not. Right. They tell us, don't look at their floor cards and don't see what their charges are, but we do.

Of course we do. I feel like everyone's curious. Yeah, how could you not want to know? It's comparable to like when the judge tells the jury don't Google the case when you get home. Okay, Your Honor. Every single jury member is Googling that case and is forming an opinion. Yeah, group chats with their friends are like, yeah, did you hear this today? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Don't worry about it. I'm going to find them not guilty regardless of what. You don't think that happens? Of course it does. It's crazy. It also makes you think maybe they should just keep applying those gag orders or not let any press go out unless it's fairly sided. Like both parties can. And we both know it's not fairly saddened.

Yeah, it's not. It's very anti, you know, suspect and it's blast all over the news. Oh, yeah. Tell us about the incident that happens with you. All right. So I'm working in PC. And this is the,

people have to remember. This is during a peak of COVID. And we're at the epicenter. Rikers Island is the epicenter of the whole city there with, with, um, the social distancing. We're letting inmates go.

Simply, oh, oh, your, health conditions? just go before you end up dying in our hands and we got a bigger problem. So they were releasing so many people and we had a tremendous short staff. So you're basically coming in at that time. And April of 2021, this is when it happened. You're coming in and you're doing 20 hours every single time, every single time. So staffing is outrageously short and mismanaged.

So I'm breaking up a fight. It's very passionate. These two people hate each other. Personally, I think they were former lovers, like secret lovers. It's just what I believe. I have no proof to like base it on. It's just because if you go out there fighting passionately that strongly for 32 minutes, it's personal. How personal could be in there, right?

I mean, you're laughing because it's true. There's one party's going to be the aggressor. The other one's going to say, no, you can't have my commissary. You know, a couple punches here or there and it's over typically. No, this lasts at 32 minutes of just. prying and pulling and pushing. And they did not want to stop. So I did everything the way they taught me in the academy.

It's like, hey, put your hands out first because you have to put your hand out and say, hey, stop. Bick, I'm going to spray. Because if you're not on camera, at least giving the motion just in case you're deaf. I know you're not deaf because I deal with you every day. but you have to do it anyway and then you have to spray no more three times how was it in where you're at

because for us it's three sprays two seconds each that's the max I don't even think they had sprays I think it was just like the lieutenants had sprays I don't think the regular officers break up the fights the same when it happened on the floor they just pull them off of each other I don't think they were spraying

really yeah no far as we're supposed to spray I don't think they had any I think it was just like if you're a regular CEO you just have your handcuffs or whatever every CEO had handcuffs and then the sergeants and the lieutenants would have an actual bottle of spray attached to him. Yeah, for us, it's mandatory

that we all have spray on us at all times. Anytime we're on duty, we have to have the spray. And the department prefers that we spray before we put our hands on you. Makes sense. Yeah, that's just the rule. If you do it in reverse order, you're going to have some problems.

Yeah, with disciplinary problems, for sure. Because, like I said, that unit that's watching outside, they're going to tag you for it. So you put your hand out, what happened? Yeah, did that. I sprayed three times within two feet. One person got the results that we were looking for, which was that he ran away, screaming, ah, you motherfucker, why did you spray me?

Well, because you don't listen. What do you want me to do? And the other one was just like me and you right now, ate the whole spray. Her eyes didn't even get red completely, and she wanted all the smoke the whole time, wanted to keep going. and I had a captain and an inmate on the bridge said like the bridge is the area where we pat down inmates before they go get their

let's say doctor's visits or visits of family members and stuff you got to pat them down there's a certain section it's about the size of like a Honda Civic it's a very small enclosed area so you had a captain and an officer both there with one inmate who's a problematic she was a red ID inmate also so you know that person did need extra attention

or red ID to us was highly assaultive or brought in contraband and that got caught. So that person needs extra care or extra set of eyes. So that's what they were doing. But they still didn't follow the rules and regs when something's going on. That person is on the bridge.

They're locked in. You're supposed to go help out. They didn't do that. They stood there with the elbows on the thing watching like it's a movie. And I got injured pretty badly. It required to the point where I had four surgeries on my left knee, my right elbow,

my right shoulder and my lower back. All because of that I ain't. The 32 minutes is a long time. Guess what, Ian? They didn't train me to go out, break up fights for 32 minutes in the academy. And guess what?

Here's another thing with rules and regs. That this is the beauty of it. How there's rules and regs and they only want to enforce certain parts on you, but they don't follow it themselves. You know, I'm sure you watch the same stuff. Fights in jail and you see the officers come out of nowhere, excuse me, everywhere just almost.

like flies on shit and just breaking up the fight. No, no, no, no, no. That's against the rules and regulations at Rikers Island. If they catch anyone doing that, which we all know that we're not allowed to do that, that's a suspension. Whoever plays that superhero right there, you're supposed to go and suit up and come in as a team. It's going to take, if everyone does everything right and it's efficient, it's going to take about seven minutes.

And that's if you have staffing. As I told you before, this is during the peak of COVID. No staffing. There's nobody literally in the hallways. So what were these injuries from? From breaking up the fight? No, I know, but what was actually happened to you? Like, where you like slammed down the ground, pushed into a wall, shanked, or?

Like, what was specifically done? One of them, I took a guy and I flipped him around, the bigger guy, the one that eventually did get, because when he, when I sprayed him, he kept well in the way because he, like, sort of lean his head into the thing, just, sorry, swing wildly at, at the smaller one. And so I had to do something. I couldn't just let them just pound the shit out of her and let her die. You know, I decided to do something. So I just took them off. So that and then there was a door

in the middle of the hallways to close and it was locked open. I didn't know. So at that point, I was much bigger than I am now, I was 242 pounds at that point. And I was Spider-Manning the wall trying to pry it. I'm like, what the hell is going on here?

Why is this door not closing in the middle of the hallway? I'm trying to close. So I'm Spider-Manning trying to pry it. There was a chain that kept it open. So this way the inmates don't close it when they want to. And the thing was as thick as my forearm. The chain. I thought there was like something blocking, like a pipe fell from the roof.

Excuse me, from the ceiling that sort of wedged it open that I couldn't. I'm like, oh, I'm going to get it open. If I could just close this door, I could end this incident. Well, that never happened. So how's the incident end? I got one guy One I'm supposed to get a team

One guy came And once I saw him Because he's he's huge And once he came I was okay fine You get one guy I get the other And it's over

So these are two male inmates One just identifying as a female Or he was taking hormones Or whatever it is Transitioning Okay Yeah he was transitioning But they were

Male by Physical I guess I don't want to answer that question I don't want to be Politically correct But I mean politically wrong or getting in trouble with the... When you need to build up your team

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The wording, but we're on the same page here. Okay. Well, it wasn't like a female unit. This was a male unit. Correct. Gotcha. All right. So what happens after this?

You're injured? Do they relieve you right down and there? So I'm against the wall. It just exhausted, beat up. I'm in tremendous pain. And I covered my face like this against the wall. The inmates came around and put their arms around me. The captain walks in now, the one that was watching this whole incident.

She's like, oh, what happened? What happened? You were right there. You had a front row seat. Literally what happened. And the inmates had my back. They saw cursing her out in front of me. Like, what the fuck are you doing?

You don't, bitch. Don't you see he's injured? Call for medical emergency. And she doesn't even do that. She's like, they're not going to come. Just go to the clinic yourself. And I'll limp there and got checked out. Yeah, man, it's incompetence.

It's amazing. It's amazing how people stay employed in that place with the incompetence. So what happens after you get checked out? Do they say you need a medical? So he's checking, yeah, I did need medical. I was taken to Mount Sinai. I would struggle to say the name, Mount Sinai Hospital in Astoria. And I got checked out and they referred me to a doctor.

And with PT and x-rays, MRIs, cascans, all kinds of crap. Still needed four surgeries. And what were the surgeries consistent of? Left knee, right elbow, right shoulder. shoulder and lower back. So you're going to be out for a long time? I was out of work for about six weeks because I didn't want to stay home. And I asked them to just bring me in and accommodate me with like an office, like a desk job.

Except there were no in-may contact. I could do that. And that's what they gave me. And what did that consist of? Like what were your tasks? Answer phones. You know, sometimes depending on the position, sometimes just buzzing people or letting people get through if they showed the ID. stuff that that was definitely within my abilities

with my, when you factor in my limitations. How long were you doing that for? Going to say he's roughly 15, 16 months in that neighborhood? So now we're at 3, 2002, like almost 2024 now? No, what? 20, 23?

September 7th, 2024. Excuse me, 2022 was my last day. That's when I was illegally terminated. Okay. So you were working at the desk on that? that happened? Yes. All right. So why do you get terminated? What happened? Oh, this is the beauty of it. This is why I can't wait. And I can't wait until they show up to court and try to explain their actions. So what they can't, the department has, I was on probation. So at the job, we have a two-year probation. I got hurt during probation. So it's a two-year probation. And if you ever work light duty, why are you on probation? Those days don't count. So it's two years worked. It's not two calendar years. So you have to work. So you have to work. work full duty, not leave early, and don't be late. So if you came in one minute late, that day doesn't count as a day working off of probation.

So I got hurt. When I got hurt, I was on probation at that point. And any days I worked after, did not count towards it. So their attitude is, you're on probation. We could do whatever we want to you. You have no rights. We could fire you for no reason at all. And we don't have to explain ourselves either until court.

So here we are. We're two weeks away from three-year anniversary and officially there's nothing on my record. So we have this report called the 22R. And that's like a fingerprint report that tells you everything that's good and bad about the individual. There's nothing there.

Not one single demerit, not one single write-up. It's called a CD, a command discipline. Not an MOC, which is way higher. Nothing there, nothing there. But their attitude is, oh, we can get rid of you. It's clearly because of being injured. And they got rid of me a week, a week before my second surgery.

So they got rid of me September 7, 2012, September 14th, I was scheduled for elbow surgery. And they knew that. But why would they want you gone? To make room for, so what happens is it's nepotism and favoritism. So what happens is since I had a job there at the desk, Ian, you're my buddy. Why should you be out there with the gangs and the drug addicts and these mental retards? Don't hang out at the desk here. You're going to be much safer.

You could only do eight hours. You know, you could do your eight hours. You never have to be spit on or break fights up or risk injury or none of the stuff or getting trouble for cell doors. That's what happened. So are the desk jobs highly desired? Of course. Of course. You think the pretty girl is going to be thrown into the jail cells?

Or are they going to get that desk job even though they're not injured? And it's the same pay at the dust. Yeah, same pay, same everything. But aren't they short staff? Yeah, it's mismanagement. It's mismanagement. On the news, they say we're short staffed. No, we're not short-staffed.

It's because, and my lawyer's affidavit, he says there's over a thousand different positions they could have accommodated me on. A thousand. So our, I think we're around seven or eight thousand correction officers. So one-seventh, that's around 15% of the entire department is basically doing light duty work, non-inmate related, but you were hired to do that.

You're supposed to do the position that I was in for when you could prove that you're injured. So did they give you an option to work in a separate job or separate position before they fired you? So the way it works is this. When you're injured and accommodated like I was, you have to go to this place called HMD,

which is the health management division. You have to go there every single month, which is to see the correction officers, the correction department's doctors. So there you have to go fill out what's called a green sheet. A green sheet is all the doctors you've seen over the last month. And the doctors that you see have to sign off and say, Nick has this or that.

I recommend him desk duty for more time. And in the corrections doctors, they have the last word. So that's merely a suggestion that what the surgeons are recommending. The corrections doctors can easily just say, oh, fuck them. I don't care. We don't care what they say. Ian, you're going back to the jails. You're going to do it.

You're going to full inmate contact. They have that right. But they never even did that to me. They're like, oh, you're on probation. Go ahead. You're done. You're fine. And you don't think you pissed them off at all or something.

I think they got pissed off that, that, um, that, you know, I wasn't like shaking when they would, when they did that because I'm like, you can't, I'm on probation. I still have rights. You know what I'm saying? You still can't abuse me like that. I'm still protected because this is an on the line of duty injury. And it's on camera. So you can't deny that it happened here.

I get it that if I played basketball on my days off and came in with a sprained ankle and try to be light duty, I get it. Like that's not their response. But I got hurt because of your negligence. Were you trying to collect some type of a claim or sue because of the injury? I hired a lawyer, of course. So before you got fired? Correct. Oh, so you did hire a lawyer?

I had to. So do you think this was a trigger for them terminating you? And do you know what else is a trigger? Because they tried very hard to cover up this whole incident. And I'm telling you, I can't wait until they take the stand on the oath. On the oath, you know that that's when the truth's going to come out. And I want to see them all of a sudden forget how to speak English and try to explain themselves, you know, in front of a jury. So they wrote me up for three different violations that day on this, for me not having for this incident that I got injured.

But I beat all the charges. They're all bullshit. trying to make anything stake or hoping that I would plea to something. Even my delegate was trying to get me to play. I said, no, I'm not playing to shit. We're taking this all the way. He said, yeah, but you know, you could even potentially get fired. I said, if I get fired taking it all the way, then it is what it is.

But I'm not agreeing to any kind of discipline. And if I would have, they would have all the legal grounds to terminate me legally because I was on probation. But since I beat them there, they had no rights. There's a clear retaliation. How do you feel about getting fired? oh dude I'm I'm obsessed with making sure that I get them back

literally I think about it every waking moment like they can't do what they did to me and when my attorney explained it to me what the process is and what they did to me he's like Nick are you sure that there's nothing there's even

I said his name's John I swear to God everything I'm telling you exactly the way it happened he says they can't do they can't give you an accommodation to say Nick you're injured here take this desk duty until you get better and then fire you from that death duty. That's exactly what happened.

So it's called cooperative dialogue. And they can have to explain it. How long has this lawsuit been going on now for? Well, like I said, it's going to be, it's been a year and a half since I filed that lawsuit because at first I was playing nice with them, hoping that they would give me my job back with back pay. They said, no, no, no, no, no.

I said, okay, no problem. We'll get a discrimination attorney on it. And now you definitely have to answer. Now, now we're going to play hardball. would you take the job back now if they offered it to you? At this very second, no, they have to pay me what I'm going to get. Did you want it originally? Originally, yeah.

I said, just give me back my back pay for, you know, pay me and we can make this squash this and make this all go away. They're arrogant, ignorant thought process. Well, now they put themselves in the corner on this. And now they're going to have to pay me for 18 years rather than just pay me for a year and change that they would have had to pay me. These are not very bright people that are making decisions there. Why do they have to pay you for the full 18 years?

Because it's a discrimination lawsuit. I had every intention to work in 22 years there. That's the way it works. You illegally terminated me. You took my career away illegally. You discriminated against me. What do you do now for your career? Right now, I'm still collecting workers' comp checks.

I collect workers' comp because of the injuries because I'm eligible for workers' comp because I was fired with a working case open. Like, this really happened. Yeah, it seems interesting that they jumped the gun to fire you while this is all going on. They also don't like that.

Remember, I told you at the beginning of the shifts that I always cover myself with the cell doors not working. That was also a trigger for them. So do you think the system, specifically like Rikers Island is corrupt? Of course it is. I mean, it's not just Rikers,

but anywhere there's opportunity, like, let's say, good jobs or there's money. available. I think there's going to be corruption in anything. Of course, it stands out in my mind because I saw this firsthand there, but I think at any job, even podcasting for you, there's some kind of corruption. Got to be going on. Not that I know what it is, but there's got to be. What do you think is the most egregious corruption in the Department of Corrections in New York? Let me not speak for the whole New York State because I don't know how it is in other areas,

but in my place, the nepotism, the favoritism. If I don't like you, you're never going, you're going, you're always going to go to a bad post and that's it. It does not matter. You're never going to have like a decent post. It's just not going to happen. Period. And the union can't do anything about it. Just the way it's written. Now when I hear, when I talk to officers of other correction facilities, they say it's rotation. So so day one, you're going to get the bad one. Day two, you get the not so bad and, you know, like there's a rotation. So everybody gets a piece of the pie. Here it's no, no, no, no. I don't like Ian. You're going to the worst one every single date and you're doing four out of fours.

But that seems like that comes internally, right? Yeah, that's corruption. But that's internally, right? Correct. So it's not like the board that we were talking about before? Correct. It's not the board. So do you think this eventually gets phased out over time as these older folks that have

been there for a while start to retire or they're always? It's always been like that from what I hear. It's been like that all the time. But, you know, the pretty girl with the nice body, she's going to get the favorable thing regardless of what I never experienced having to go to areas where, where you're going to get disciplined. And they'll apply for a position to say, look, I've never been disciplined.

I was a great employee. Yeah, because you were buying a desk the whole time. Now, when you were there, they started talking about closing Rikers. Do you think that's feasible? No. So what do they mean by that, closing Rikers? What are they going to do?

Rikers Island is always a talking point, as you know. You know what I'm saying? Like the whole country knows about it, and it's nothing good. Yeah, it's probably one of the most famous jails in the country, if not the most famous. Yeah. that and the one in California.

And is it a nice land? Like I say, if you're a developer or an investor, it's gorgeous land. Like, if you go there, not that you want to go there, but it's right next to LaGuardia Airport. It's literally, I could throw a baseball from Rikers Island

to the runway to the runway at LaGuardia Airport. And so, you know, you get this New York City skyline, and you got Manhattan. For a bird, it's probably two miles away. And if you just knock down all those ancient buildings that they have there and the developer turn, I'm sure, into like high-rise luxury apartments, yeah, or a resort or some kind of park, you know, like an action park or something. Yeah, yeah, I can see that why the interest is there. But where do they put the inmates? The plan is to build four separate borough jails, one in Manhattan, one in Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn.

So instead of their attitude is, and now we don't have to drive inmates to court for court appearances from Rikers Island to, let's say, Staten Island or Brooklyn, which is a nightmare. So now you just say, oh, you got to go to court, all right, take them downstairs. Yeah, it's got to be brutal driving around the corrections bus to the different islands.

Yeah, different courthouses? I wouldn't know. I never did it. It's got to be a shit job. Oh, can you imagine all those guys there just doing it 24? Yeah. And being stuck in traffic. Yeah.

I would imagine it's difficult, but it's better than being in the cell area. So do you think back now what would have happened if this incident didn't happen? Do you think you would be making it the 20 years still? Yeah, yeah. I think I'm still in touch with my people that I was buddies with. That didn't change. And, you know, the constant support from them of like, hey, what they did to you was wrong. Make sure you fight to the death.

And believe me, I am. And as I told you earlier, I'm not accepting any settlement offer. Even a million dollars right now, I am not, I am rejecting it. We are going all the way to trial. Unless, of course. Unless, of course. Listen, I'm a fair guy. You give me everything I want up front and not embarrass you publicly.

Do you think this happens to a lot of officers there? Yes. Yes. Regularly? I brought on through other, other podcasts that I've done, people reached out. 11 other people have signed on with my attorney because of my podcast. That's just people that have been terminated

for medical reasons. And never mind, there probably doesn't or more that just didn't fully qualify because of the statute of limitations. Because there's a, for a discrimination lawsuit, it's a three-year statute of limitations.

So there's a guy that missed it by like a week. I was like, dude, I'm sorry, but, you know, the rules are the rules. You know, we have to. the following, but they don't. So what do you think the final outcome in a perfect world is going to be? I don't need a perfect world. I just need a jury to not be rigged, and I'll beat them. I am supremely confident. As confident as I am to say that I could walk down the stairs without tripping, that that's how confident I am, that me and my lawyer will win this case.

Does it feel intimidating going up against? Not at all. I look forward to it. They're intimidated to me. I'm not afraid of them at all, at all. Bring it on. So what do you do now? Like on a day-to-day basis? I know you said you're collecting. Yeah, I watch your podcast often. I've seen some of your stuff. Podcasting stuff I watch on the phone.

Thank God I have a strong support system with family and friends who reach out to me. So let's say you'll call me and talk for like 15 minutes. And then someone else will call me and talk for 20 and text and just keep myself occupied like that and try to study stuff about laws. on how this stuff works and it's, they could be beat. And by the way, NYPD does the same thing with the, because they're sister organizations

and a New York City fire department. All three operate the same way. So some people just take their losses and walk away, bow and say, okay, you know, whatever I got. I don't like it, but I walk away. I would too, but not with this type of violation. How do you make sure it doesn't consume your life? Because I've seen a lot of guys come on here that have felt wronged in the criminal justice system and, you know, the lawsuits and getting that kind of revenge or retribution really bogs them down and it consumes them.

Well, I can't give you, I can't tell you a healthy way because my doctors tell me to stop thinking about it. The way you just described is me as well. It's consumed. Like every conversation that I have of people will somehow lead right into my lawsuit. Like, hey, you just had a burger from the, you know, the Big Mac from Doudal's. Oh, man, you know, my warden, he, he had a Big Mac one time in front of me, too. You know, I am absolutely consumed with it. Yes, I am.

In an unhealthy manner. I try to control it, but I can't. Do you think that's any way to live, though? It sucks. It does. It does. You know, a lot of times I'll just stare into a day's, like, try to figure out, like, what's the creative way they're going to try to explain their actions?

Like, what's the bullshit they're going to try? And this is what they're going to say. Oh, well, we got rid of him for the needs of the business. And then we got him right there. Well, I hope you can have this come to a conclusion soon. My lawyer told me it's going to take about three to four more years. That's a long time to dwell on this. I'm ready for it.

So once you come off the disability checks, what will happen? Well, we'll explore that. I'll weigh my options at that point. Okay. Gotcha. But I look forward to it. Like I said, when they say the needs of the operational needs of the business, oh, we got them.

That's exactly what I want them to say. And we got them. Boom. Ladies and gentlemen, Drew, you heard this? You hear this? Needs of the operation, but you have full-duty pretty girls answering those phones. Instead of being in jail, we're claiming short staff? Okay.

Explain it. Explain why I got fired a week before my second surgery. Explain that. they're with an accommodation. That's all. Under oath, I just need you to answer those questions.

It's very simple. So they stopped paying for the surgery? No, they paid for the surgeries. Oh, they still paid for it. Okay. Yeah, they paid for it. They tried to, they lied about that too.

They were trying to say that I came in injured. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ian, I'm telling you, they said that. And then it, what would it be? What would the injury be? You mean the four body parts that needed surgeries? Yeah, like, why are they saying you came in injured?

Because they want to just completely deny and just make this incident go away of what happened to me that day. It's in its complete negligence on their part. Complete. Now, what do you think? They're going to go to court and say, yeah, yeah, Nick is right? Of course not. They're going to try to do anything. I mean, I beat them in court on that, too, by the way.

So, like I said, bring it on. Not afraid at all. Well, I really hope this works out for you soon. There is no hope. The only way I don't win this is if I happen to die before that day. before the trial. There is no hope, I promise you. More than welcome to come and watch.

Sounds good. Well, thanks for coming on the show today, Nick. Oh, thanks not. Yeah. Anyway, I could just give people my information and how they can reach out to me? Yeah, of course. And we'll have it in the description of the bio too.

All right, yeah. So anybody out there, especially if you're NYPD, New York City Fire Department and New York City Corrections Department, if you've been let go for medical reasons or something, if you want to share your story with me, feel free to contact me on on Instagram or Facebook. It's Nick Goichai, N-I-C-K-G-O-J-C-C-A-J on either Instagram or Facebook, either one.

I will respond to everybody no more than 24 hours after. I'll reach out to everybody. Maybe I could shut some light, maybe some questions there that weren't answered. I know we spoke for a while. Maybe there's some key points that we didn't talk about. And I would elaborate. I don't have a problem talking about this case at all. And salute to everybody.

Appreciate you, man. Thanks a lot.