Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a Surgical Nurse — Then Got 15 Years in Prison | Jenifer Lockwood

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

Jenifer Lockwood became a surgical nurse in Florida, grew up watching her mother struggle with addiction, developed her own health complications that introduced her to prescription pills, and eventually built a scheme at her job calling in fraudulent prescriptions to pharmacies to feed the addiction before law enforcement set her up at a pharmacy and arrested her — producing a 15 year Florida state prison sentence that she served 13 years of before sobriety, a paralegal career built inside those walls, and a complete life transformation gave everything that addiction cost her a completely different second chapter. _____________________________________________ #PrisonStories #PrisonLife #florida #nurse #truecrimestory _____________________________________________ Thank you to HUNGRYROOT, PRIZEPICKS & AG1 for sponsoring this episode: Hungryroot: Explore my Hungryroot Digital Cookbook "The Commissary Upgrade" at https://hungryroot.com/LOCKEDIN _____________________________________________  PrizePicks: Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/IANBICK and use code IANBICK and get $150 if you win your first $5 lineup! _____________________________________________ AG1: For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at https://drinkag1.com/lockedin _____________________________________________ Connect with Jenifer Lockwood: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeniferlockwood_postconviction/ Website:https://postconvictionalliance.org/?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAcGRvZgJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZA85MzY2MTk3NDMzOTI0NTkAAadFH6OUvd0oYsZ49876ZgUNamkrtoguEvoHhTss8b8Eae0YjSpPFNXIEHSGUw_aem_zplLQ5f36CmzUcciKJ03Vw _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick:  https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Surgical Nurse's Journey 00:28 Growing Up in Pensacola 02:22 Discovering Biological Father 05:52 Influence of Medical Family 09:15 Early Marriage and Nursing 12:04 Life as a Surgical Nurse 14:41 Sponsor Break 15:14 Traumatic OR Stories 20:36 Addiction Begins 24:47 Mother's Role in Addiction 27:20 Silent Struggles in Healthcare 30:40 Prescription Ends, Desperation 35:20 Arrested in Pharmacy 38:48 Drug Trafficking Charge 41:02 Pharmacy Verification Process 43:36 Bond and Legal Threats 48:39 Out on Bond, Terminated 50:05 Bond Revoked and Withdrawal 52:27 Firing Lawyer, Public Defender 55:00 County Jail Experience 57:38 Sponsor Break 58:47 Legal Process and Plea Deal 01:03:58 Understanding Gain Time 01:05:18 Marriage and New Relationship 01:09:10 Motherhood from Prison 01:13:26 First Day of Prison 01:19:29 Fitting in at Gatson 01:23:31 Becoming a Law Clerk 01:29:51 Prison Shows and Talents 01:31:04 Types of Cases Helped 01:32:32 Sobriety and Self-Discovery 01:35:35 Using Nursing Skills in Prison 01:38:49 Financial Support Inside 01:39:55 Mother's Sobriety 01:40:06 Questioning Sentencing Length 01:42:50 Refusing Cases and Prejudice 01:48:53 Comparing Sentences 01:50:15 Lessons from Encounters 01:53:42 Approaching Release Date 01:55:59 Release and Reuniting with Kids 02:03:36 Josh's Anger and Healing 02:05:30 Current Work and Advocacy 02:08:13 Feeling the Lost Years 02:09:25 Advice to Past Self _____________________________________________ To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka

This surgical nurse spent 13 years in prison. My guest today is Jennifer Lockwood. She was a surgical nurse in Florida when her own health complications led to an addiction that changed everything. What happened next cost her career, her freedom, and more than a decade behind bars. Today, she's sharing how she survived prison, got sober, and rebuilt her life. So I grew up in Pensacola, Florida. So Pensacola, Florida is like up in the panhandle, like literally. on the Alabama line. Are you saying that because of the accent? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So I have that

little bit of that southern twang. So Pensacola is off of the Gulf of Mexico, but it sits literally, from where I lived at, 10 minutes down the road was Alabama. Very touristy town, right? Yeah, it's also, we have the Pensacola Naval Air Station there, so it's a lot of military too. But Destin, Gulf Rees, all those are real touristy, like Sandestin, Destin. Destin's beautiful, because like it's white sand, emerald water. But yeah. What was your childhood like? Oh, goodness.

So I had a pretty good childhood. My mom was primarily the mom and dad. She was basically a single mother. I have had stepdad throughout, throughout my childhood. My stepdad now, I do call him dad. He has been a writer and probably stayed around way longer than anyone should. but he didn't come into my life until I got a little bit older. But primarily it was my mom.

My mom worked two jobs, three jobs. She worked at the hospital. She was also in the medical field. And she was, you know, florists, that food were all the grocery store, whatever, too. So she was kind of mom and dad. Where was your biological father? So I didn't know this until I was about 12 years old. So when I was born, my mother and my father were together.

And I was actually born in Mount Vernon, Illinois. My mother worked at the hospital there, and I want to say I was like six months old. She kind of had a feeling my dad might be having an affair, and she came home and she caught him. She was like working a night shift. She did some stealth mode. Came in. She caught him, and he was with his secretary, Becky. Now, side note, him and Becky are still together to this day.

But I didn't know anything about him because he signed over his, he signed over all of his parental rights to me when I was, you know, very small. So my sisters, I have two sisters on the oldest, their father adopted me when I was probably like two years old. And then, of course, he passed away later on. But around 12 years old, I was trying to sign up for softball or something. And my mother wasn't moving fast enough for me. And I went in a file cabinet and I found a birth certificate. And the birth certificate was my name, my date of birth, except for the last name. It wasn't my last name.

It was a barber. And, you know, my 12-year-old mine was like, oh, my gosh, you have a twin. And she's been lying. Now, why would the twin have my exact name? But I can remember this day sitting at dinner and my mom, you know, even though she was a single mom a lot, she tried to like, she tried to make us sit down for dinner every night at 6 p.m. You know, Sunday was mandatory cleaning and whatever. And dinner day. But I was crying.

She said, what is wrong with you? And I said, you've been lying to me about my twin. And she said, Jennifer, that's not your twin. She's like, that is your, that's your biological name. And I just remember feeling so, like, betrayed. But then betrayal went to, I want to meet him. And so I did. I met him when I was, like, 13 or maybe the end of 12 years old.

And I was, I actually have two other sisters by him. And I went to his house and he lives in this huge three-story house with like an elevator. Kitchen was like upstairs. And I had so much fun that. summer. I loved, you know, meeting my sisters, but I was super, super resentful and kind of angry that, like, dude, we're down here. We're, like, in Florida, like, struggling. And, you know, you're actually my dad, but you signed over your rights and you live in this, to me. It was like a little mini mansion. And so the relationship just never really flourished. As a matter of fact, I kind of regret it now,

but I would never let the fact go. Because I don't like to think I have daddy issues. But maybe I do have daddy issues, you know, but I don't, I never let it go that you gave me up, you know, even though there's two sides of the story and the truth, I just would never let him live it down. Do you think you would have been better off not knowing? Absolutely. Yeah. I do have a lot of things about him that I understand, like, because I've been able to research

him. And like I said, I've had somewhat, I mean, I had an off and on relationship for years with him. It just never really was great. And then once I went to prison, I never heard from him again. And I did try to reach out to him, but that's a whole other story. But like he's a writer, very good, England. You know, a lot of the talents and things that I do are from him. We also look a lot of like.

I mean, I look like my mom a little, but I look a lot like him. But, yeah, I do think it'd be better if I never, if I had never known. Just, you know, didn't know. I mean, who knows? But, yeah, because it sucks to think that, I mean, I think I'm pretty amazing now. you know, but you don't get to see that. Maybe he's really amazing too, you know. But I don't know because I never really gave him a chance.

And he didn't want to live with the guilt of it because every time he spoke to me, that's all, that's what he had to relive. And I, as an adult now, making the mistakes that I've made in my life and how forgiving my children have been, like, I feel really, you know, I feel bad because he's just a human being. And, you know, if I, if my younger self could have known that, I wouldn't have given him such a hard time, but, you know. Now, you said your mom worked in a hospital.

Did that influence your later life career? Yes. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And my ex-husband also worked in the medical field. My mother, you know, since I was little, I can remember going to work with my mom, like filing charts, you know, doing things. So, yeah, definitely, definitely influenced me going to school to work in the medical field. And she was a nurse? Yeah, she was. She started out, you know, as, like, office manager.

And then she ended up, I think getting her LPN and then. I want to say she did end up getting her R in as well, but she was a good nurse. You know, my mother was, it is not was, is a very charismatic woman. And I think she's very empathetic, which is where, I mean, I can remember being little and my mom stopping on the side of the road to someone who was, you know, homeless or a family and like us going and emptying out our whole refrigerator and taking, you know, taking it to them. She's very empathetic to other.

People she doesn't know at all. and I think that's where I got that from. So you knew early on that would be your career, like as a kid? No, no, no, no. Early on, I wanted to be a news reporter. Why that? You know I'm over here talking your ear off. Just because I'm nosy.

I used to have, like, I used to have, like, clubs around. Like, I had this, like, mystery club. I've gotten myself in a lot of trouble from the mystery club, but I would go around, like, investigating things. And one time I thought my friend Stepdad was on Unsolved Mysteries. And so, but I was nosy. And I always wanted the scoop on what was going on. And I love to write.

And I'm very theatrical kind of, you know. So, yeah, I wanted. And then I wanted to be an attorney, which is odd. But, and then I remember watching my ex-husband. He was in the medical field. And like, no, this is definitely, I think this is definitely what I'm supposed to do and where I'm supposed to be at.

Why an attorney? Oh, well, my mom would tell you, and my sisters would say because I'm argumentative, you know, because I, prior to going to prison, I'm not proud of this. But I was one of those people who, it was kind of like my opinion, my way, just would argue about, you know, that's not, it's like a periwinkle blue. And I'm like, no, it's actually a tint of purple. Just very like, and I was a good debater.

I was like in debate in high school. So, and I would win a lot. I was in pageants when I was a little girl. And I didn't necessarily win the. pageants because I was the cutest or the prettiest little girl. I won because I could get up there and make the judges fall in love with me. I could make them laugh. And I do remember at a very young age thinking, okay, you're not going to be the most, you're not going to probably be a model, okay? But you're not ugly. You know, you're cute. You're not going to be, but you're going to use

your personality and it's going to take you wherever you want to go. And I just remember being like 10 years old and thinking my personality in who I am is what's going to, and it's 100%. I don't think there's ever a job that I've applied for that I have not gotten whether I had all the experience or none because I have that ability to win people over or, you know, maybe you call it manipulative. Not these days, but in the past, you know, you know, very manipulative, but we disguise it as, you know, persuasive. So maybe that's where the attorney thing came from. Debate, I don't know. No, you said your first marriage is what got you into nursing. Did you get married young? So it wasn't really what got me, but it's kind of what, you know, because,

Like I said, I'd been with my mom, but yeah, I did get married very young. I was 19 years old. He was 10 years older than me. And at that time, he was a paramedic, and he was a really, really good paramedic. He had some other issues, but was a great paramedic. And I think, yeah, it was the adrenaline. I would go on calls with him. And it was just the adrenaline.

And it was the, you know, I was always in the hospital. So, you know, with him or doing something with my mom. I just knew I felt home there. Like when I walked in the hospital, I knew that's pretty much where I was supposed to be. So where do you end up going after high school? You get married. Do you go to school, college?

Yeah. So I end up going to school to become a surgical nurse. And I absolutely loved it. I had great grades. But I had an instructor that was a nightmare. And as I said when I started, I talked with my hands a lot. I'm very theatrical. And she would say, you're never going to make it in the operating room.

So in operating room nurses, there's levels to it, right? And you have to be, you have to be still. And there has, there's, you know, aseptic techniques and sterile. And like, you know, the back of you in a gown is not considered sterile. So if you bump into something like your sterile table, well, you've just contaminated the entire sterile field. So she would make me, like walk up and down with a book because I am. I'm like, ah. And she would say, you know, you're never going to make it. You move too much. You talk too much. Who cares if you have a 4.0? That doesn't matter. And I'll never forget. I talk about it all the time. But she came to do externship rounds. And I was actually scrubbed in on a neuro case. I was like a student. And I remember her looking through the window and she's like, and I'm like, you know, hey. And for me, whatever, that was the confidence I needed. But later on, I became very good friends with her. And she said I had to be hard on you because it was true. But also like you, I've also the person that feels like, you know, oh, I've got this. I don't really have to try. And she's like, and I wanted you to be great. And so she's like, I had to be hard on you. And you do,

you do move around a lot. So, but I ended up becoming and being really, really good at that. And so I took the job that ultimately, where I ended up getting in trouble at. And so he was a newer physician that was opening his own practice. He did orthopedics and podiatry. And so he was like in his, like early 30. So he was a young doctor. and I was in my late 20s, and he was a phenomenal guy. I went to work for him, but what he didn't know is that along the way, I had developed an addiction to pain medication. And that's kind of where everything took a turn.

What exactly is a surgical nurse for the audience to know? So you have a surgical nurse is the person who actually scrubs in on all the cases. So you can be a first assist or a second assist. It's basically the nurse that scrubs into the state. You've got a nurse that's on the outside that's usually called like a circulator. And then you have the surgical nurse who's actually passing the instruments to the doctor, having everything set up. So the trays, all the equipment is set up.

Sometimes I would get to close on the patients. So if he did the suturing on the inside, I could do the outside or do the staples. But also doing the suctioning, you know, there's a lot of, you know, you have somebody, you know, cut open. and there's somebody that has, you know, has to suction and do all the, making sure that everything's cauterized. The doctor will cauterize and you're getting everything clean. So you're just basically the doctor's assistant during the surgery. And then you'll have nurses on the outside that are not on the sterile field

that are passing things into a sterile, you know. So once you're in this like sterile bubble, you cannot break scrub until the surgery is over. I teamed up with Hungry Route to build a digital cookbook, and I called it the commissary upgrade. because I know we're all tired of eating ramen noodles. I was looking for fast, delicious meals that we can make quick at home. When you click the link for the Digital Commissary Upgrade Cookbook,

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Hungry Route because we're dialed in on it and we're going to be using this every night. Explore my digital cookbook on Hungry Route today and find recipes that are right for you. Go to Hungryroot.com slash locked in to access my cookbook, the Commissary Upgrade. Were there any stories from your time as a nurse that stuck out to you in the operating room or anything traumatic that happened? Yeah, like we, you know, so one of the like ABC's, one, two, three roles in surgery is that you have to count everything that goes in and everything that comes out.

So there's this little thing on the floor and it's called a kick bucket. And so that's where you're putting like your four by four gauzes, you're putting anything you're discarding, but it's important that that bucket's there because once the doctor soes up, everything has to be accounted for. And so one day or whatever, we're, you know, we're like counting over and over and I'm the one who's, you know, counted and I'm off. And I don't want to say I'm off, but I have to say I'm off because if I don't say that I'm off, this person who just had surgery is sewed up and is now going to have to go home and then they're inevitably going to end up an affection. So long story short, I'm like, this doctor was so horrible. So I had to tell him,

like, listen, my count is off. So it's like these four by four gauzes. But you got to understand when somebody's open like that, every, those four by four gosses, they get like sucked up with the blood. So they look like tissue. It doesn't look like they're there. And he like flipped out. He flipped the, oh my gosh. As long time as I thought about it. He flipped the like standover. Oh, he was pissed because he's finished. He's so. going up. But he was one of those ones that wouldn't wait until you're like, hey, my count is good, which he should have done, but he didn't. And yeah, he banned me from ever, ever doing, ever doing surgery with him again. And then another time, I had started smoking cigarettes. I'm not

really sure why I was smoking cigarettes, but I did. And one of the doctors hated it. Like, and he could smell. It didn't matter if you, like, you know, put perfume. And so I wasn't even scrubbed in on this case. And he said, go get Jennifer and tell her to come down here and scrub in. And so I'm like, okay, so I do. And it's a lady. And they're going in because she has lung cancer. And he takes, I scrub in, I put my gloves, I'm in there. He takes and puts my hand inside to feel her lungs are just full of like black nodules.

Like there's nothing we could do. And he was like, you feel this? He's like, this is you. This is you. And like, you know, basically saying if you don't stop smoking, the crazy thing is that your lungs will rejuvenate, but you have to do it enough time. But I'll never forget that because I felt the inside of the inside of. this woman's lungs and it was like these hard, like black looking like nodule.

She was just, you know, basically this is a sad story. We can do nothing for her just so, you know, back up. And, you know, they were just doing like an exploratory. So that's just a couple of the. Did you end up ever smoking again after that? So not really until, no, not until I went to work release. And then I smoked a couple of cigarettes just because it had been, you know, 13 years. And then somebody's like, oh, but guess what?

you can do you can let me show you this vape and so they you know i tried the vap and of course tastes like peaches or whatever so now i have a problem with vaping but i am i'm going to get that under control but no i don't smoke yeah no anymore i smoked a couple but i might have smoked too in prison i think you know like the when i first got to prison you could smoke so at um lull in in 2009 you could buy cigarettes off the canteen but so and i and i remember like like when i would smoke i would smoke marvellites but they didn't have marble lights so they had marble light so they had like marble reds that would kill you. So I would buy the marble reds and then I would buy these tops.

I don't know if you guys. Did you guys have? We didn't have cigarettes in the feds. People would sneak them in, but. Yeah. So they would have these top cigarettes which you'd have to roll. And I didn't have to roll them. So I'd just pay somebody to roll a bunch of them.

So if somebody came and asked me if they could bum a cigarette, I would give them one of those and not the, you know, in the marbles. But that was very short-lived too because I initially, you know, got transferred in the other prison you couldn't. And then I think they stopped it like two years later. Now, did it take a while to adjust? to seeing the blood and just dealing with that environment, or were you always naturally? So the only time I ever got sick on any case, and I did orthopedic surgery, so that's like,

that's like woodchop. I mean, that's like banging, and, you know, you've got orthopedic reps that are in there, like, you know, it's their instruments. It looks like woodshop. It's like zizz and clicking. But the only time I ever got sick was actually on an eye surgery. That creeps me out. I guess maybe because my vision is bad.

I have terrible vision. I wear contacts. But seeing them take the knife and like, you know, whatever. I can't remember what they were doing some type of transplant, cornea and what transplant. I had to, I got sick. Like, I had to break scrub and I barely made it out of the door. And I was just throwing up. And I remember them laughing like, you're in like way worse that you wait than this little outpatient eye surgery.

But it just gave me the hebie-jeebies. But no, other than that, anything else I was pretty good with. How does your addiction to pills come about? So in, I want to say like 2005, so I had a bunch of female issues. I ultimately had a hysterectomy at the age of 27. But prior to that, I had a lot of, you know, they were doing different surgeries, and I had something called endometriosis. And so they started writing me the pain medication Lortab.

I don't know if you know Lortab. It's kind of hydrocodone Vicodin has different names. it's the lower end of the prescription medications and the fact that it's 98% Tylenol. But I, everybody, different people have different, you know, opinions. Oh, pain pills make me sick. The pain pills made me like superwoman. I was, it's crazy because, you know, you get to a point where you don't really want to take them anymore. Like it's not like you're, but you're physically addicted.

And if you don't have them, you're going to be sick. but I can remember the first time I'd probably been on it for about a year. And, you know, the more I was taking them, the more I would start to abuse them. I do want to be clear because this is important. I never put a needle in my arm, not that I'm judging anybody, and I never really snorted them. I literally took these pills by mouth, and that's one of the things that's so hard for some people to believe. But so around the first year, after I was on them, I remember being sick one day, and I thought I had the flu. And I talked to my mother who, you know, my mom actually deals, has dealt with her own opiate addiction.

So I'll go back a little before the surgery since I've been little. And I'm not trying to bash my mom, but it's just the way we grew up, there was a pill for everything. If you're sad, your cat died, your dog died, here's a Xanax. So my mother has, you know, been a functioning opiate addict for a very long time. She's doing great now, but, you know, so I, so I already kind of had the, the liking to it, you know, not that she was giving me a bunch of pills, but I had already started, like, dabbling in those things because I can remember, like, I ran over the dog one time by accident, and my mom gave me the Xanax, and I didn't worry anymore, I wasn't, you know? So I already kind of had it in me, so you fast forward to me having a surgery, and now they're writing these for me every single month, and I think I was getting like 120 a month, which was like four a day. So about a year in, I got really sick one day, and I said to my mom, I think I have the flu because, you know, my body hurt.

I was sweating. And she said, you don't have the flu. She's like, you're having withdrawals. And that's the first time anybody had used the word withdrawal to me. And withdrawal comes from like addiction. And what are you talking about? And she said, you're dependent on the medication. And she said, do you have any medicine right now?

And I said, no. And she said, exactly. And I remember crying. And that afternoon, like the prescription was late or something, but that afternoon I was able to go get them. And I'm telling you in within 30, not even 20 minutes of me taking that medication, I was perfectly fine. And I remember thinking I am in a lot of trouble. Like, this is not good. But I didn't stop because they were still giving it to me.

There were multiple times where I did try to stop. I don't know how to explain opiate would drive. other than they say you can't die from it, and I believe that. You can't. But you want to die. You physically want to die. There is nothing worse that I can compare in my life than going through opiate withdrawals. And so, you know, by this time I'm married, I'm having children.

I don't have time to lay in a room for a week or two week and push through these withdrawals. It's that bad. Every hair on my head hurt, every joint in my body, my teeth hurt. it just I remember just getting in and out of bathtubs because I did did try but once I just kind of like okay this is it I'm hooked I'm hooked on them so I just got to make sure I go to my appointments every month and keep getting them until the one day they decide that I no longer need them and that's where everything bad in my life kind of takes the turn now at that moment with your mother why didn't she take you for help or kind of explain it you know further or look for something

in that moment, especially as a nurse. Yeah, so at that time, I became my mom's partner in crime, right? Because, you know, I like to say that my mom is just a person, too, and she kind of did the best that she could. But my mother was in, you know, active opiate use. She didn't think there's anything wrong. My mother got them prescribed. In her eyes, it wasn't go get help.

It's like, you need to make sure they get your prescription called in by this afternoon. Like, you better make sure they get this done. I don't know. I don't know if it was in her world, like me doing them too. You know, because later on my mom and I would obviously do some dirt together or, you know, run out or whatever. But she, yeah, she didn't at that time say, you know, what are you doing? You better, you know, let's get you off of these now. Do you wish she did looking back on it? Yeah, and I know she wishes she did too.

There's never, you know, my mother has never been right. since this happened to me. She's never. I mean, I know, I can't even imagine, and I've told her, you know, this isn't your, but the amount of guilt that she feels, yeah, I'm sure. If she could do it all over again, she would have thrown me in rehab probably faster than God got the news, you know, but she just didn't. How is she effective in her job while battling addiction herself? Yeah, so that's the thing. It's why we're such a chameleon, right? Because nobody ever knew. You know, we were, and I was functioning. That's why when this did happen, it was such a shock to, you know, it wasn't like I'm not

the, you know, you know, strung out in some trap house. I'm literally like the best one of, you know, one of the best workers at the hospital. I'm at the ballpark, you know, you know, T-ball commissioner, cheerleading, you know, nobody knew I lived, I lived a very double life. As the addiction progressed, my double life got way worse. but I have always been good about, I've always been good at making it look like everything is okay. And when the whole world behind me is burning down, I'm going to walk in like, hey. But, and so my mother was the same way, you know, she's, I say she's a jack of all trades, master of none, the same as me.

I learned. She's very charismatic and she, she went to work every day. So nobody thought, you know. Do you think there's a lot of people silently or secretly struggling in the health care field? like you were and your mother was? Absolutely. Absolutely. I don't even remember what the percentage was, but it's extremely high.

And it's also opiate addiction, like that kind of opiate addiction, Lortab Vicodin, Percocet, a lot of like middle-aged women, like not middle-like, like, yeah, like 30s, 40s are silently struggling with addiction because, and I will say now they have a little tighter grip on it. I don't think back then in like 2006, 7, 8 that they thought. thought LORTAB was as addictive or as strong as, I mean, I know they know now, but, but I mean, I have a story about that later. Like, I don't think that they really thought that it was as severe as it really was.

And they would write that, you know, Lortab, Viken, and they would write it like it was candy. But the healthcare workers, absolutely. I mean, I've had friends, a very good friend that was literally shooting. I don't know if they still use DEM or all anymore, just in a minute, but would literally be stealing of the, like, the, and he was a very good friend. an anesthesiologist and he was like mainlining dimmerol. The same day that I got arrested, another pain management doctor in the same hospital that I worked at got arrested. And when they got him, he had a bag full of demoral, fentanyl, you know, he was mainlining it too. So it's

very, very common, yes, in the medical field. Do you think you made any mistakes on the job because of your addiction? No. I mean, I got it, I hope not. You know, when everything kind of first happened, when you two people are outraged, because they automatically assumed, like, when you hear nurse and pain pills that, like, I'm taking, like, going in your grandmother's room and being like, here's two. Lorotab, I mean, I'd be profen for you and pock in him. I never took anybody's. I wasn't, I never took any of my patients meds for myself at all.

As a matter of fact, I think that when it all happened, some of my patients probably were like, maybe they knew that I was going, you know, maybe had a little opiate addiction because they could call me with the most outlandish stories. Yeah, I was driving home and my prescription flew out the window. The pain pill prescription flew out the window and I'd be like, all right, well, let me see what I can see if I can get you another one. I do remember being, you know, I'm not proud of that, but I do remember being super cool with those that I knew were battling with addiction, but it was a dependency that was developed. because of us giving them medication.

But I don't really remember ever making any... I can't explain. I wasn't high out of my mind. I'm nodding out. They don't really do that. I mean, I felt like I had the most... One of the things I tell people is I wish I hated pain pills. I don't hate them.

I love them. I love them, but I respect them. And I hate what they have done to my life. But doing it the way that I did, I had all the energy in the world. I was like, I could do everything in the hospital, get everything done, come home, be at a PTA meeting, do this, clean the house. Because they made me, I think I said in Rolling So Magazine, they made me feel like Superwoman. You know, they were, that's what it did for me.

So now when the prescription ends and you can't get them anymore, how does things take a turn? Yeah. So one day, the same doctor who had been prescribing them basically said, you know, hey, Jen, we, you know, you've been on these for about five years. and I'm thinking, well, that's not very long. You know, and he's like, but we don't think you need it anymore. But instead of tapering me down, which is, you know, what they would do now, absolutely, that's not what he did. And so he just stopped writing them.

And I was super sick. And I got the idea that, yeah, well, I call these prescriptions in every day. So at the end of my shift, I was calling in pain medication or medication in general for our patients. and so I would use a fictitious name. It was not in my name, obviously. And the patient name that I used was somebody that was deceased. So it would be like an old. So thinking back on that, that could have probably got me in a lot of books.

But it would be, you know, back then before they connected all the pharmacies and the things that they have now, the highest thing in Florida you could call in by phone back in 2008, 2009 was a lower tab 10 milligrams. so that's your strongest. And I would just use a name, a fictitious name that wasn't mine, but it was actually somebody with a social security number, and I called in the 60 lore tabs. Okay. What I will say is that is not the first time I ever did it. I would be lying if I sat here and said, oh, I'd never done it before. I had done it before, and before I would have never went and picked it up on my own, right?

I would have, it would have been a fictitious name, and I would have sent somebody that I found in the parking lot, paid $20 to go in and pick up this prescription. but this particular day, it was, I was desperate. I was sick. I needed it. And so I also was supposed to be meeting at this time. Me and my ex-husband, we are like having joint custody of our kids. So this particular day, I've got to go get the kids.

All of this in a lunch break time, go meet him, and, you know, and then make it back to work. So I call in the prescription for 60 lower tabs. and just to make it look good, I called an antibiotic in with it. Now, if you ask why, in my mind, rationally, if I called the pain pills and then the antibiotic, it just made it look more legitimate. So I called in the 16th, I called in a Keflex prescription, which, you know, was an antibiotic. And somehow I messed up the dosing on the Keflex, not even on the, you know, pain medication. So here I leave to go pick up my kids.

Remember, I just pick up my children. go to the pharmacy. And in the meantime, the pharmacy is called the office because they want to know, do I really want this patient to take this Keflex three times a day or twice a day? So in the past, they would get me. So if they called the office to verify a script, well, they're going to send it back to the nurse. But this day, I wasn't there to intercept that call because I'm on my way after I picked at my kids. So our office manager gets the call. And she looks it up and she tells the pharmacy, we don't have a patient by that name. And so they know at that time it's fraud.

Do they know I'm coming in there? No, they don't know who it is. They just know that whoever called this prescription in, it's not legitimate. So, man, this day, I don't even want to cry. This was such a horrible. So I go to this pharmacy in Pensacola. It's a grocery store, food world, and they have a pharmacy in there. And I would change the pharmacies.

I would, you know, do it at. And my two boys were, they were with me. And they were eight and, I don't say, eight and nine at the time. And they were, I didn't want them to come back to the pharmacy with me. So you know how, like, back in the day, I don't know if they still do, but the grocery stores had, like, the claw machine game and, like, the little bubble gum thing. So they're up there playing those, you know, playing the games, and I go to the pharmacy. and when I go up to the counter to get the prescription,

I'm telling you, Ian, the pharmacist, I will never forget the look. This guy looked at me like, what are you doing? I'm in Scrubs. He's just kind of like, oh, man, but I'm battling internally. My addicted mind is like, that guy's not looking at you. Like, you're tripping, there's no, you know, he's like, he's saying to me it's going to be about 15 minutes.

It's not ready yet. You know, hindsight, it should have waived it. I'd called it in a way, or it should have been ready. but that's not uncommon for every now and then not to be ready. So I walk around like a jackass waiting, you know, for the prescription to be ready. And just battling my other mind is like, get out of here. You need to leave. But I don't.

So I go to the counter and I pay for the 60 lore tabs. And when I pay for the 60 lore tabs and turn from the counter – oh, and the antibiotic – I pay for that too. I turn from the counter – the Scambia County narcotics investigators are there to arrest me. Okay, my children are in the front of the store now coming towards me with the claw machine game. And I'm crying and I'm begging the narcotics investigator to just not handcuff me in the back. And she doesn't. I will say she did handcuff me in the front and I had a purse and they did put the purse over my hand.

And they allowed me, which is, oh, man, I deal with legal every day. This could have taken such a turn. DCF could have been involved. But they allowed me to call my sister to come pick up the boys. and they basically arrested me. And as they're taking me to the jail, they're talking shit because in their mind, they don't, 100% don't think that this is for me.

They think somebody's either put me up to this or I'm selling them or whatever, but there's no way that, you know, I'm doing this for addiction. At that time, they're just like, we know you better start talking. Tell us who, you know, who you're doing this for, who you're selling them to, but I'm not.

And I get to the jail and I need to call. and get somebody to bomb me out. I have this astronomical high bond. And the lady, she's like, if you think I'm country, she's like super country. She's like, baby, she's like, you've been charged with drug trafficking. And I'm like, what? I'm like, no, no, no. My name is Jennifer One-N, J-E-N, you know.

And she's like, yeah, I know. They charge you with trafficking hair on. And I'm like, trafficking hair on at heroin. And I'm like, I've never even seen heroin. let alone traffic. So basically what I found out is back in 2009, Florida statute 893-135, which is the drug trafficking statute. I learned two very valuable things that day. Number one, in the state of Florida, you do not have to be moving weight, like grand weight, from one place to another. You just have to be in possession of a certain grand weight,

and it triggers a trafficking conviction or trafficking charge. So, and I also learned that they had put Loratab, Vicodin, which is 98% Tylenol. Side note, I'm not minimizing my addiction by saying it's only this or it's only that because whatever. But anybody who is an opiate addiction or has ever been knows that those are like, they're like eating placebo or like Tic Tacs or something to someone who uses much heavier drugs. So they put Loratab hydrocodone at the very end of the heroin statute. So it was like heroin, opium, opiate, oxycone.

cododotodotone, right? So she's like you're being charged with 28 grams of, you know, hydrocodone, which is underneath 28 grams of heroin. I like to give everybody the analogy. If you look at 28 grams of heroin, you got quite a bit of heroin. If you look at 28 grams of Laura Tab, you've got a handful of one month prescription, one month supply of pain pills. So, yeah, calling home, trying to explain to my dad, my, you know, my stepdad that I call dad and my mom that I'm not in here for trafficking heroin because that's what it says. Because my sister is like, but the paper said, uh, hair on. I'm like, for fuck, it's heroin, number one.

And number two, I've never even seen heroin. So, you know, finally I can show it to them later on, but that's how it reads initially. So yeah, that was the day that my whole world was just flipped upside down. And if you would have told me that day, hey, you're about to go to prison for 15 years. There's nothing in me that would have. believe that, not even a little bit. This episode is brought to you by prize picks. It's a scorching sports summer and you can make all your picks on prize picks. Women's basketball and baseball are heating up and every football preseason game kicks off this month on prize picks. And with big

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Because you said they would have been okay with just talking to you. So, yes. So usually, like I said, at the end of my shift, most of the nurses, any shift or, you know, hospital, they are calling in the prescription that the doctor, of course, authorizes. So, yeah, it's a very common thing. If you call back to, like, say, hey, what did, you know, doctor so-and-so, did he want this 7.5? of course, yeah, a nurse would go pull the chart or, you know, now they do it digitally, but back then pull the chart and just verify, oh, he actually, or if he messed up, you know, I'd get him to rewrite one and send it over or go talk to him and get him to recall it in.

So, yeah, that is a very normal thing. This particular day with the office manager, I think that they didn't even care. Once she verified that we don't even have a patient by that name, I mean, maybe they would have asked to speak to the doctor since I wasn't there, but they didn't. never even went any further because at that point they know that this this patient is is made up. This is not even valid, you know? So now it's the pharmacy that calls the cops and not your office that reports it. Right, because at that time, they do not know that Jennifer Lockwood is about to walk in that pharmacy.

All they know is that that prescription is fraudulent and whoever it is, it's illegal. It's fraud. They need to be arrested because we didn't do it. Our office didn't do it. Now, I guess in another world, they could have just refused to fill the prescription for you and just leave it, right? In a great world, right? Yeah, I guess I'm sure that could have happened to some people. I guess it really depends on who made that call.

Right. Because they did, they put together a whole sting operation very quickly. Yeah, well, what they did was they just contacted, you know, Scambia County. They sent out, yeah, which was crazy because I'll never forget the investigators that arrested me to this day. Their name, I'm not going to put it, whatever. And it was two women, and it was like a bigger woman and a smaller. It was like the good cop, bad cop. And on this day, I'm being super cooperative because in my mind, I'm saying, tell them the truth.

And I do. Tell them the truth and everything is going to be okay. Tell them that you're addicted. Tell them this or whatever. I did tell them the truth, and it wasn't okay. That, you know, I was still being charged with drug trafficking. They still didn't believe me. And they still basically would, you know, come and talk to me and say, listen, another investigator would say,

you want, you want, you're going to go to prison for 25 years because here's the deal. In Florida, 28.6 grams is 25 year men, man. 14 to 28 grams is a 14, I mean a 15 year minimum minimum, sorry. A 14 to 28, I'm sorry. So I had 0.6 over the threshold for the 25 years. But when they're saying, well, we'll drop the 0.6. Like, I don't want 15 years. Are you crazy?

What are you talking about? Why are we even having a conversation that I'm going to go to prison for 15 or 25 years. So basically they said, okay, well, we have a better deal for you. If you work with us and provide substantial assistance on who? On what? What do you mean? Because they still, and, you know, they're not, they're not wanting to treat this like an addiction. I'm baffled. Like, I didn't even get offered rehab. And I remember, like, later on, the girls in jail, they're like, oh, they can put you in drug court. No, no, I, I did not pass go. I did not. collect you. I was never offered probation or drug court or, you know, a program. I mean,

I was writing all the program, you know, trying to get, that, it wouldn't have mattered because at that time, Florida had this minimum mandatory drug law and two things, one thing is certain, two things for sure. It was a minimum mandatory, meaning my statutory max was 30. Okay, so it's a first degree felony 30. But the minimum mandatory, whatever it is, the 15 or 25, it's mandatory that the judge imposed that. The only way the judge can get around. that is if the prosecutor files a waiver and the only way if you read it says to provide substantial assistance and that's it but on who and then I realized oh they want me to go doctor shopping or like go to you know set these you know doctors up then they try to insinuate the doctor I worked for

knew about it he didn't um at all I mean that man is scarred to this day because of me he trusted me 100%. He had no idea that I was addicted, nor that I was doing that. And I mean, it's years later, I would be honest, that man had no clue. And I was super, super guilty. I felt guilty for a very long time. I mean, I've spoken with him since I've been home and we're okay, but he's never trusted another nurse as long as he's been in practice, you know? So how do you explain that to investigators? Because they probably think there has to be a doctor signing off on it. So, well, I didn't really have to explain it because they, got the recording. So what, what it was is, you know, if you call the pharmacy just to like

check on your own prescription, it'll say press one if you're, you know, patient and press two if you're the doctor. So when I would call in my prescriptions, it would just be a recording. So I just called them all out, you know? So they knew that it was, it was, I even, I don't think I've ever told anybody this, but I really don't. I used a very, a very heavy. country accent when I called it in. Like, I have an accent, but I tried to make it so, because I, you know, there had to be some criminal thinking back then at some point to make it to where, if they ever did hear it, it didn't sound like me, but they knew it was me. They, um, they had, I think, I want to say my mother and somebody else when they were, when they were building

the case to get me listen and say, is that your daughter or is that Jennifer? It was, it was me. But they knew, I think at some point that, that the doctor had nothing, you know, he didn't off, you know, the patient was deceased that was called and he didn't authorize it. They knew. But where's the verification? Doesn't the pharmacy need a signed slip or electronic order? So that's what, so if it would have been, if it would have been anything higher than a Loretab 10, it would have had to have been a handwritten script with him signing it, which I've done that before too. But by phone, I'm calling from his office. I call him prescriptions every day. I have his DEA number. I have his IPN number. I have all the numbers that they need. And it's not uncommon.

It's in practice. And I don't know what they do now. But back then, it's not uncommon that the nurse is calling. And it's not a doctor that's going to get on the phone and call them in. No, the nurse is going to call. He's going to sign off on it and give you what to call in. It just so happened that mine, he didn't authorize or say that I could. I just threw it in there when I was doing a batch of other ones. That makes sense. I know you said it was common to do it, but was it allowed by law to, for a doctor? to give like the nurse a D.E.A. number. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes, absolutely. As a matter of fact, like I would, like, even if it was a prescription on a pad, I would write it out. He would sign it.

You know what I mean? So, yeah, it was, yeah, there's nothing against the law for that. That's why when I admitted that I had done it prior to that, it was so easy. And that's why it was so easy. I mean, you'd have people that were getting a hold of doctor's script pads or DA numbers and calling in and they didn't work for the doctor's office and they were getting away with it for a long time. Yeah, people could steal the scripts or the pads. Even if they could call in just like I just said. Instead of pressing, you know, one for a patient, you press two like you're a provider or a doctor and you leave it on there and people are getting away.

I'm sure they can't get away with that now, but back then they could get away with it and they did for a long time. Now, do you get bailed that day? I know you said it was high, but do you physically get bailed out? Yes. Yes. Yes. My mom, yes.

And then I, reality, like I, I don't know why up until it happened. I thought they were just trying to scare me. Like, there was nothing in me that ever thought that I was actually going to go away for that amount of, you know, go away for that amount of time. But this is what happens. So I'm out on bond and I obviously have been terminated, you know, from my employment. I'm terminated. Tell us about that conversation when they first talked to you. Yeah.

So I wouldn't go. I would not show my, you know, show my face. And so long story short, I knew they were going to get to, you know, remove my life. I knew they were going to do all that. And all that did come with time. But I did not speak to the doctor for 10 years, even though I was terminated. I mean, it was obvious. I couldn't even bear to, you know, face him.

Because, again, it's not like he had any clue. and it's not like I was strung out or whatever. I was ashamed, but, yeah, I would not show my face. So they basically, I think I still have where they wrote me, you know, that obviously you know you could never come back. Matter of fact, you can't come to this hospital period, so don't even, you know. And then I just went into, I guess, like, survival mode, just trying to, I want to say I went back to work at Olive Garden maybe, like I was bartending, waiting tables, just trying,

you know, to act like this wasn't going on in the, you know, in the background. meanwhile, you know, yeah. So this particular day, I'm at home, and the narcotics investigators show up, and they're revoking my bond. So now, I just want you to picture this. I knew I was going to have to go to court, and I knew I was, I'm still on pills. I'm not off of pills, even though I should be. I call in that prescription.

I get caught. Obviously, I don't get it that day, but I find some. because I'm sick and I'm still taking medication. I'm still, you know, taking them every single day. And then these two investigators, the two ladies, they show up to revoke my bond. So why are they revoking my bond, you ask? Oh, they say they have found a new charge. So here's the way that works in Florida.

If you're out on bond and you commit a new offense, your bond can be revoked. But if you're out on bond and you find an offense that I did prior to the offense, you're not supposed to revoke my bond, but they did. And I didn't know that because I wasn't a law house, a law clerk, jailhouse lawyer then or whatever. So they revoked my bond. But all that's running through my mind is, you know, at this point, I want to say the only,

so I missed a big part in here that in this time I've had another child, whatever, which is my baby that just turned 19 yesterday on the 14th. But so I have another, I have another child. and he's the only one that's there, and they come to revoke my bond, and then my sister shows up, which was weird. How did you know they were coming to revote my bomb, but here you are. And I'm like, what are you guys saying? They're like, oh, we're taking you in, you know, where you're being arrested.

And it was a prescription, but it was not anything I had done. It was prior to this, you know, to this. And so they take me straight to a skin. I know I'm not getting out. I have no bond because I'm now on a revoked bond. I'm in the county jail and that's where I'm going to stay until I get sentenced to prison. That ignites the worst withdrawal. I 100% thought I was going to die in the Escambia County jail.

I have never been that sick in my entire life. I do not know what they do now, but back then they did nothing. Like if you were withdrawing coming in, they were not doing anything for you. Now, you didn't have a lawyer at all? Yeah. He couldn't help you, fix the bail issue or? So, so the lawyer that I had was actually a friend of mine who, oddly enough, I had met at an in A meeting because I had started, you know, going to thinking that if I like, you know,

went to NA meetings and I got in recovery that by the time I saw the judge, you know, it would, I'm doing all the things everybody's telling you to do to make sure that like when I go before, you know, this is an addiction and can I just get help for it or whatever. So I met him. He's a very well-known criminal defense attorney in Pensacola, Florida. Everybody loves him. I loved him too. And so I'm telling him and he's like, listen, you're going to prison anyway.

Like, you know, yeah, I can go and, you know, get you back out. But why? And I'm like, you know what? I'm like, yeah, I'm firing you. So we laugh about this now. So he's like, oh, you're firing me. And I said, I am. I said, did you just say I'm going to prison anyway?

He's like, Jennifer, I don't know how to tell you this. But this is exactly what he said. just short of Jesus walking in the courtroom and some miraculous miracle that whatever, you're going to prison for at least 15 years. And I'm like, Randy, you know what? That's, yeah. So I let him go. But now I fire him. I don't have the money now to get another. Like, what am I? But I feel like I've got a better shot with a public defender because he's, he's already sold me off to prison. I've talked to him since I've been home and he's laughed so hard. He's like, you know, because I used to write him when I was in prison when I was in the law library. But yeah. Are you glad he gave you that

harsh truth, though, rather than some lawyers that might say, oh, you're not going to serve much time or we'll get you off and then it hits you harder? Yeah, yeah, because I have friends that are like, you know, they'd have an attorney and then this other would come in and say, oh, we'll get you a much better deal. And then they would fork out all this money when the first guy was honest. He's, you know, he'd be like, listen, you're probably going to do about five or six. And you get this other guy that swoops in and says, oh, I'll get you. I'll get you. probation and guess what you still ended up you ended up with 10. So yeah, looking back on it, he was trying, I mean, he would come and see me. He would come and see me at the jail and, you know,

a lot, which most of them really don't, but he would. And he really just wanted me to get a grip on reality and like, this is happening and you need to be getting the best you can, your affairs in order from in here. You need to be figuring out, you know, because you are going to prison, whether you, you know. How old are you when you hit the county jail? So 28. No, you've never been, you know, incarcerated before. Right. What's that experience like there? So I'm sick. So that's what I was going to say.

So I'm in the county jail and I am so sick. I am vomiting from, you know, I don't want to go into, but it's horrible. And I'm literally, so when in Escambia County, you're going to go into like a, like, a holding, like holding cell, but it's a bunch of women. So they can kind of like team you out or like classify you before they'll take you upstairs. but it's so crazy now to look back on it, but like they thought I was crazy because let me add a little other to this. I was withdrawing from the LOR tab, but I had started taking Xanax that I had been prescribed now for my nerves because my nerves are bad because I'm out on bond. So who ever thought that was a great idea? So now I'm withdrawing from the opiate and I'm withdrawing from the Xanax.

And I am hallucinating. I am sick. I cannot keep anything down. I am in the back bunk in this like holding cell thing. They will not let me go upstairs because they keep saying, I don't know, I think she might be crazy. And so I remember this girl, her name was Wendy, and it was two other girls.

And they would literally, like, they were like frequent flyers at the jail. Like they were there all the time. They kind of like ran the, you know, people that have been there a lot, everybody knows them. So she comes back, her name was Wendy. She's super country. She's like, baby. She's like putting drink down my throat, making me drink.

she's like you got to sit up and drink this if you don't get up and eat they're going to let you die in here they would literally come back there like hold my head up put sips of um you know water whatever drink so that i would you know actually eat and drink something um and weirdly enough um i finally got you know they helped me through that a couple years later i i i work in the law library i do all the orientation this chick comes out to me like two years later and she's like is your name jennifer lockwood the windy girl And I'm like, yes, hey, how are you? Welcome to Gadsden, you know.

And she's like, do you remember me? And I'm like, no. And she's like, and then I notice her glasses. And I'm like, oh, my God, she's like, and I'm like, you saved my life in the county jail. 100%. They wouldn't give me even nausea medicine in the county jail. If it wasn't for this chicken, I don't even know the other girl's name, I would have died in there. And she's like, we saw you.

They're talking and we're like, because they're like, really, we thought you were gone. Like, just, like, we thought that you had done, you know, that the damage was done. Like, you were never coming back. That's how out of touch with the reality and how sick I was coming off of the medication. I realized I was reaching for an energy drink every single time I got tired. And to be honest, that's not a habit I want to keep anymore. As the summer starts to wind down and the schedules start to fill up again, I'm hitting a hard to reset. Instead of reaching for an energy drink in the morning, I'm starting my morning.

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locked in. That's drinkag1.com slash locked in. Tell us how the legal process plays out for you, how long you're in the county jail, you know, any plea deals or anything like that? So by the time that, so that was on May 11th when they revoked my bond. And I actually got sentenced that same year on July 22nd. So I end up getting assigned a public defender. And she, basically my next court date, which wasn't until July 22nd after I tell Randy, you know, that's crazy. So she comes over to me and she has a plea bargain from the state. And she was like, so I got them. I negotiated with them to get the point six off because they're going back and forth about point six so 28.6 is 25 years 14 to 28

is 15 years she's like they're willing to do you a favor of favor and they're going to take off the point six and I'm like what does that say 15 years and she's like but um you know it's you're going to go it's a 15 year minimum mandatory um I I forgot to say this earlier when I was arrested when they revoked my bond, there were 17 pills in my purse. The 17 pills that were in my purse, they charged me with drug trafficking for those as well. So now I have the two drug, okay? Yeah. So, but they were a three-year minimum mandatory triggered, okay? So it's the, so on the plea, it's the 15 years. They're going to give you, you know, whatever it was, the three-year minimum man for the other one, but they're going to run them together. So it's going to be concurrent. And I'm

like, I am not taking that. Her name was Meredith. I'm like, I am not taking that. that it is ridiculous. Do you understand what you're saying right now? You're saying that you think I should go to prison for 15 years for 60 freaking Lord Tab? Like this is insane. And she's like, she's scared. She's like shaking. She's like Jennifer. If you go to trial and you lose and you're going to lose because all they have to prove is A, were you in possession? You are. You're caught rent-handed. And did it weigh this amount? And it did. And she's like, I understand the law's not fair and whatever, but that's what it is. And so I look and I see this like writing and I'm like, what does that say?

She's like, oh, yeah. She's like, that says they won't prosecute you on the other 20 to 28 warrants. And I'm like, what? She's like, yeah. So turns out the investigation that they've done on you has turned over some other prescriptions that they believe was you and that you did. She's like, so basically what they're going to do is they're going to put a cap. So if you, now my family doesn't know this.

that's in the courtroom. They don't know anything about these other prescription. And I've told them that that's the ones that I'm there on. That's all, you know, that's the first time I've ever done it. So, but I know now, and she says, but here's what they told me to tell you. And I'm looking over at the prosecutor, who's also a woman and terrible. If you don't take the plea today, when you get back to the county jail, they're going to arrest you on, and it literally says 20 to 28. So they're going to arrest you on some of these warrants that they know are you. So what they did is they just started an investigation and found, you know, found other prescriptions. I will say later on looking at them, some of them weren't me, but it didn't matter. Because like she said that day,

if I went to trial just on what I was there on, and I was found guilty, it was a 30 year with a 25-year man in it, and I would have had a 30-year sentence. And they could have given me on the other trafficking charge that had a three-year-man, 30 on that too, for the 17 pills. So I'm looking at if they wanted to be consecutive 60 years for 60, what, 77 pills. And so I just, tears are rolling down my face and I sign. I sign the plea because I know that not like my family doesn't know, but I see that. And I know that out of those 20 to 28, yeah, some of them are me. And so I take it. And that day, the judge, I had one of the worst judges in Ascambia County, also a female.

By the way, I don't suggest females when it comes. Like, you'd think they'd be, like, more sympathetic, but the judge said to me, Ms. Lockwood, it doesn't make me feel good to give you someone like you a 15-year minimum mandatory sentence. She said, but my hands are tied. And at that time, I didn't understand, like, what do you mean? Your hands are tied. You're the judge.

You can do whatever you want. No, not in Florida and not if it's a minimum mandatory. So that day was terrible. And I cried in the courtroom, but when I got in the cell at the courthouse, you know, they put you back in like the thing. I couldn't even cry, but the weirdest things are running through your mind, like how old I'm going to be when I get out. Like, I'm going to be old. I'm going to my 40s or like my clothes are going to be outdated. And then you're like, why am I thinking these are random?

It's because you know your children. My kids are going to be grown. And at that time, they didn't know that I was going to get game time. So they said the 15 years was mandatory time. So I didn't know I would get gain time. So yeah, I just went into at that moment like, I'm like you got to like gangster up or something because this is happening. You know? And gain time is good time?

Yeah. So in Florida, you do 85%. But some minimum mandatories like habitual or prison release reoffender or gun charges are mandatory to the door. So those are called mandatory minimums. those you have to do to the door, but minimum mandatories, meaning it's the minimum sentence the judge has to impose, get gain time. So I didn't know that, though, when I was at court, neither did my lawyer. She thought I was going to do day-for-day time. So by that time, I'm like 29 or 28, 29.

So I'm looking at being 45 or something when I, you know. But when I got to prison, I found out that I was under a minimum mandatory and that I did get gain time, which is 85%. So we get a whole whopping 10 days a month. but you can only go to your 85% days. So somebody like me, my game time is going to freeze at about year five. Does that make sense? So like in Florida, you can't be released until you've done 85% of that time. But you get 10 days every month.

But you're going to get down to that 85 way before. Yes, before your time ever. And so that's what happened around my fifth year mark. As long as you're not in trouble. So I was getting 10 days a month. six years, seven, eight, but it didn't matter because my time was frozen. That's where I was at. Now, what happens to your marriage?

Yeah, so we had already, when everything went down, we had, we had, you know, we're getting a divorce. I happened to meet somebody else during the, yes. So that's this, so I happened to meet somebody else. Super, super nice guy. Yeah. I think, you know, during that time, he's from Oklahoma, super country, nothing. like my ex-husband is from New York, from upstate New York, and womanizer, very, drinks a lot, but very, you know, infidelity was horrible.

And our, you know, so there were other factors that kind of encouraged my opiate addiction, you know, the fact that he never came home, the fact that he slept with every woman at the hospital. Because he was going back to school to become a physician's assistant at the time. And women would come up and be like, oh, my God, I had such a good time with your brother, you know, and I'm like, I don't have any brothers. You know, so because actually Lockwood is, you know, that's, that's a merry name. I just my kids, so. But I meet somebody else and I get pregnant. And that's where, so I wasn't supposed to happen, but so I inevitably meet somebody else pretty much destroy their life. They meet me.

They, you know, things are good. They know I'm in trouble, but they don't know the, you know, they don't know how, you know. and so I ended up getting sentenced to prison when Joshua was like 15 months old. And what happened to this guy? Does he ride it out? Yes. The whole 15 years? 12 years, nine months and three days is what I did.

And he's a guy you're with now? No. Oh, okay. So he doesn't make it the full way? No, he does. Oh, but then you guys break up when you get out. All right, we'll get to that part in the store. No, so, no, so, you know, he's a great guy.

He really is a great guy. Josh is that is a good dude. and he so my parents have a bunch of property where they live and so they had another place on the property so he was able to like live there you know without having to pay rent and stuff because again like I've devastated everybody I leave him with you know a 15-month-old baby to take care of remember I told you I was trying to like go to the rehabs and stuff before that and and I had went to a detox but he had the baby and he was freaking out I was only going to be gone like 72 hours and he's kind of freaking out. I mean, I know now he kicks himself

because I don't know if me staying there for the 72 hours would have changed anything with my sentence, probably not. But I end up leaving you for 15 years with this baby. So, but yeah, during my entire incarceration, he, I spoke to him pretty much every day. I never told him to wait for me. Like, you need to wait for me. Am I going to say that he didn't? He did for a pretty long time. I don't know what he did out here all the way and I never asked because one thing's for certain, he picked up that phone every single day for me to talk to, you know, to Josh. So I was able to, you know, stay in contact with Josh. And as my time got, you know, closer and closer, and this is a long time, I talked to him and

I just realized me, I don't really even know him. He doesn't even really know me, but he loves me and he thinks I walk on water. But this is a great place to share it or not, but I just wasn't, I was an addiction and I wasn't exactly faithful or great to him. And he didn't know it, but he should have because lots of things came out later. But I just realized, like, we're two, he's very, you know, we're two different people. And so I would tell him, like, listen, I'm not going to be with you, you know, when I get home. But whether he ever really believe that or not, he, by the way, now is he is married. He is married. And so, you know, that was like a sigh of relief to me,

because my conscience, like, this guy did ride out, you know. Going into prison, did you think that you were going to be a mother from there, like an active mother? So my hope was, right? Yeah, I was hoping, yeah, you think you have these grandiose ideas that you're going to be able to control stuff on the other side of the fence and you're going to be able to maintain and control your kid. Well, yeah, I learned the very hard way that I could control nothing from in there.

And my ex-husband and his wife kept. my other boys for 10 years, they would not let me speak to the kids. They wrote me a letter in December of 2009 that basically said, you know, we received the gift cards that you sent for the kids because I would try to still, you know, get my parents to send, you know, send them money on the cards, and I would writing them every week. And they said, we made a decision and the kids agree with it, too, that we don't want anything to, they don't want anything and we're not going to let you have anything to do with them. But I knew that was a lie. because Brendan and Jacob were eight and nine years old.

It's not like they didn't know me. And the truth of the matter is, you know, I was a good mom to them. They don't have any, like, bad addiction, you know. They had no idea. Like, I was still working and putting on the front. So the kids never, but they knew me. So you're just, you're saying that my, that Brendan and Jacob do not want to have anything to do with me. I knew that wasn't true.

But, yeah, for 10 years, I did not see what they look like. I did not really know where they were. I knew they lived in Tennessee and I knew the town that they lived in. But every now and then the stepmother would answer the phone and I would talk to her. And she would promise to let me speak to the kids like on Friday. The kids are just, you know, they're growing up and then I would call Friday and they wouldn't answer. And she, oh, we were at a football game. And one particular conversation, her and I laugh about this all the time.

I was on the phone with her and she was crying. the whole time. And she just was like, I am so sorry that, you know, we've done this to you. And when we hung up the phone, I said to my mom, because my mom would have to three-way. It's like she put money on there for me to call. I said, her and Brian aren't together anymore. It's my ex-husband. And she's like, what? How did you get that? I said, now there's something in her boy. I just know it. And sure enough, I wrote the clerk of the court in that county and found out that Brian had left my kids with her, like, you know, a couple years earlier. And that she went to court and got like full custody of the kids because he didn't show up in the divorce never mentioned

me anywhere in the paperwork just like they were her kids and the judge and the judge gave her like full custody and ordered my ex to pay her an astronomical amount of money in child support because he was making good money and alimony and so my children that I left and went to prison are with the stepmother no blood whatever nobody in my family is allowed to talk to and my ex-husband's not even with her anymore. That was, yeah, that was horrible. But her and I are pretty, we're good friends, and I have a lot of respect for her. And one thing I can say is she did love the kids like they were her own.

And looking back on it now, like, you know, they had a pretty, pretty decent. I just got hot talking about this. They had a, oh, the fan went off, that's why. They had a pretty decent, you know, upbringing with that. But, yeah, so, but, you know, my mother and my sisters, they didn't let them have any contact with them either. So not only did I not get to talk to my kids, but either did my family, my parents, nobody was able to see the boys. When I saw Jacob in the visitation, when he turned 18, I knew if anybody was going to come find me, it was going to be him. You know, and that's, they all love me, but Jacob, and as soon as he turned 18, that he showed up and can you imagine not seeing them, you know, Jake was eight years old because he's my middle son and now seeing him, you know, in a visitation park and he's 18.

And he had his girlfriend, I was just his fiance now, and she's adorable. I love her. But shows up there. There's like one of the, it was one of the happiest, but hardest days of my whole life. Like this is this little boy is now a pretty much a grown, you know, grown man. Walk us through that first day of prison. So, yeah, so the first day of prison, you get to Lull Correctional. I'm sure if you've had anybody on this show that's been to Lull.

We've had a few and an actual officer from there too. Oh, really? Yeah, you probably know him. He was there when a lot of some of the women that I think you're friends with were there. He forgot his name. He has a certain, a distinct voice. I'll pull his name after. I forgot.

Is he a white guy? Yeah, white guy. I think he was a sergeant at some point. Very distinct voice. I think I've seen it. Yeah, now that you say that. Was he there when you were there? Yeah.

So now they have what they call FWR, the reception center. But back then, everybody you went to, they didn't have that. So you went to the annex. That's where orientation. So I had two DRs my entire prison time, you know, disciplinary. And the first DR I got was within two. weeks of being in prison. I was so green. So I get to the annex at Lull, and as soon as you, like, you come into property, you know, they do the, they delis you. It's horrible. You know, they make you,

you know, get naked, strip, you know, and the lady's like yelling at me. She's like, take off your panties. And I'm like, I got to take off my, and she's like, everything, everything. And I don't know if you've ever, like, had anybody explain it, but it's really awful when you're in the cough line with somebody that they think has something, even though they have nothing, but they just make them keep, you know, like, I want to see the pink. And you, but we all have to stay bent over too, you know, we're coughing. I am traumatized. I don't even, you know, and you hear that we would hear the worst, like, horror stories

about Lull, you know. But we were excited because they'd say, oh, you're going to get chicken on the bone. It's the little things. When you're in the county, they're like, oh, you're going to get the chicken on the bone. and you're going to get to smoke cigarettes, and you can get a Coke or a Pepsi. So I was excited about that. But when you come out of TNA or the arrival property,

you've got the other side over here is like the lifers and long timers. And you have to walk down the center walk with your bag. They know, everybody knows you're like the, you know, the fresh meat coming in and you've got, I think it's the first time my life I'd ever seen, like, woman that they call like bulldaggers or bulldikes or whatever. they would have like braid, you know, like straight braids back. You know those big, like big braids.

They're thick. Yeah. It was like women with like their braids or whatever. And they're like checking you out. They're hollering stuff. So I get over, you know, we get over into orientation. And like the, I think it's like the second week, every single day that we try to go to the canteen, somebody would do something that would piss one of the officers off.

So they would shut the door. It was literally like a stampede. You would have to like get up to. like get up to the door and run out to get your place in line. They had people selling spots in line. Well, the first week I was there, I didn't have a lot for my locker. So I came back in one day and everything I bought was gone. And then so what happened with the DR is I was pissed because now I have nothing and I can't go shopping.

And so one of this lifer, they called her Mike Mike, she comes over. She's like, Lotwood, come here. She's like, you want to go across? over here, you can go in O&P part. And I'm like, I can. She's like, yeah. She was like, you're going have to give the girl, you know, you break her off, but you can go, whatever. And then she's, and then I'm like, okay, okay. And then like, then she hands me her list too. So I got a, I got her list and I got to break off the canteen. And I'm, you know, so I, I get them to open the gate. You know, they're in the tower up there. I get them to open up. I go over there. And I, and I go to

O&P, and I go up to the chick, the one I'm supposed to go to. And I'm, you know, and I, I, I get them I buy the stuff and when I look at my receipt, she charged, it was supposed to be like a pack of cigarettes or top and she charged me like $40. And then this other girl's already charging me 15. So I'm like, no, that's not fair. You weren't supposed to charge me that. She's like, girl, get out of here. And I was like, I'm not now. I'm going to act hard. I'm not leaving until you give me either that you reimburse or you give me items that are worth the amount. So I'm standing there. We're going back. For she gets mad. She pushes a bunch of stuff out the wanted to me. I think I've won. I'm like, yeah. And so I get back, go back over there. Well, I hear

them a little bit later. I seen her do something on my receipt. Like she like wrote something. And a little bit later, I hear them say my name across the tower. Jennifer Lockwood report back to OMP Park. But I don't go and I'm new to prison. So I think if I don't go and they never came and got me, then it's good. And then a couple days later that following week, they served me with a DR. And so we go to the DR court or hearing or whatever. And it's this big white lieutenant. Everybody knows him. And they're all like, somebody stole my card. Captain, it wasn't me. And so he's locking everybody up. So then I get up there. And he's like, well, what's your story? And I said, all right. And he's like, you know why you're here? And I said, well, and he said, because

the canteen worker told on you ass. That's why. She told on you. And I was like, oh, she did. And so then I'm like, well, let me tell you what really happened. So then I break it down as to, well, she said she was only going to charge me this. And then she charged me for it. And he's like, so your green ass stood there arguing with the canteen. But, and I'm like, yes, because she wasn't going to get away with that. And he was like, well, you're the only one not going to jail today. Because he's like, you're the only one that didn't come in here and try to say that.

And I wasn't going to tell on her either. But when he told me she had wrote something and turned my name in, I'm like, oh, okay. So, yeah, but that was my very, very first DR. But, yeah, he's like, you're the only one not going to jail because everybody was saying Sarce or Captain somebody took my tag or I don't know how, you know. But yeah. Who did you find yourself fitting in with or associating with in there? Where did you gravitate to first?

So I was not there very, very long. I wasn't at Lull, you know. I ended up getting shipped to, I got teamed out to Gatston Correctional Facility. Have you had anybody in here from Gatts? Gatston? Maybe, but mostly Lowell. They would have mentioned it in passing. Yeah, so Gaston is like what they call Camp Cupcake.

So at the prisons, it's like being maybe in like federal, like, you know, federal prison for, it's nicer, much nicer. Like oranges and you black type vibe. Yeah. So we had like heart walks and we had dogs on the compound that we trained for like, you know, canine for companions. We had gray hounds. It's just flower gardens everywhere, you know, vegetable gardens. It's a like, it's a private prison. So it's managed by, I think now it's managed by MTC, but used to be CCA's, which is,

so it's the only female prison in Florida that's actually privatized prison. Oh, wow. So how had the food compare at the privatized facility to, say, the regular one? When I first got to Gatston, it was amazing. That was, Gatston was a really, really, really, really good prison and the food. So they, because they're a private prison, they contract all their vendors. So like their food staff, but I can't remember what vendor it was back then, but they were amazing. But one of the things I do remember them being is like they were very, very good to the kitchen

workers. And they would look out and like let them eat, you know, if they cleaned or did whatever, which I think all the other kitchens never really took up that. I would try to tell them. If you treat them better, they're not going to steal from you as much. If you're better to the kitchen workers because, you know, everybody stills from the kitchen or whatever. But everybody wanted to work for this kitchen, but the food was a lot better. But when I first got to Gadsden, at the end of 2009, they did not have an orientation dorm. So they just kind of put you wherever they put you. Well, they put me in the faith-based dorm. Now, my life is going to get much better in prison, but at this particular time, I'm mad. I am mad at the world. I am mad at God. I am mad at,

I am blaming everybody the doctors for me being in prison, and you're putting me in the faith-based storm because they didn't have any beds available. That's just where I ended up going. So the first day I get in there, and I had made up my mind, too, like on my way, I talked so much shit and ended up being like the golden child. But I was like, and I'm going to give these people hell. And they want me to be in prison for 15 years, and I'm going to run amok. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to show out. So I get put in the faith-based storm, and I'm mad, and I want to be moved.

And the chaplain comes in because she's over it. and I cuss and she's mad, and they put me in confinement. Now I'm in confinement, you can tell I talk a lot. I'm in the cell by myself. I'm crying, and I don't know when I'm going to get out. I don't even, you know, I'm in there because I refuse to be in the faith-based dorm. And now I'm crying. So like at four or five o'clock that afternoon, right before she was getting ready to go home,

the chaplain came down to the confinement. And she's like, Lockwood. And I come up there and I'm crying. And she's like, I don't know why I'm here. Something just would not let me go home. today. And I was like, it's okay, I'll go in the dorm. I'll even do the program. She's like, no, no, no, you don't have to do the program. Just go in the dorm and be respectful. No, I'll do the program. You know, I just went out of the confinement. So she's like, I'm not sure while I'm here,

but why I even came down here, because I wouldn't do this for anybody else. She's like, but something is telling me to come down here and get you out or whatever. And that, that was kind of the defining, if I had not went to the faith-based dorm in the very beginning of my time. I'm not saying I'm not going to attribute it to everything, but I think my prison time would have been a lot different. I'm not an over-religious person, but I think that it kind of, it just brought me down a little bit. I ended up, you know, I ended up doing the program. But what really kind of set me up in prison is I immediately became a law clerk. And so initially it was for my own selfish, you know, I wanted to get me out of prison. But, and I'm not, you know, I'm not, you.

I'm not calling myself the goat, I'm saying, but a lot of the women, they'll say, you know, that's in the women's institution, Jennifer Lockwood is the goat. Like, she's like the Midas Touch, you know, whatever she. So I end up getting into the law library. I passed the test or whatever. And in Florida, you have to get certified by the state. And so it's a bunch of tests that you take, I think, like, nine or ten. Where I was at, if you failed one of them, you would get, you know, you would get kicked out,

and you'd have to wait and redo it. but I ended up passing and becoming a law clerk. So when you asked me earlier, like, how did I fit in? I just kind of blew up. And I know it sounds so crazy because we're talking about prison, but it's the truth. Like, I just went from being just somebody, nobody really knew, to being like a very, like I was Jennifer Lockwood.

And Lockwood was a beast. And she was that, Lockwood was that baby and you go to see her. And she's going to. And I figured out early on for whatever. every reason, even though I had never done legal in my life, I was good at it. It was as if I had been doing it my entire life and I had never done it a day in my life. There's a difference in being able to like, you know, write a template motion or whatever or, you know, put, you know, fill in some blanks, or to write a motion with an argument and actually understand and apply the law. And that's kind of

what set me. I mean, I was starting to get people like five years off, two years off, a year, all, you know, and so quickly I became very, very popular in prison and very, very well respected because I taught a lot of classes. I did like a key to success class that like helped women because a lot of those women, like they'd never felt had a resume, let alone knew how to like properly fill out a job out, you know. I was the president of Toastmasters. We were like the only prison that had an actual paid, like some of them had like gavel clubs. But we had a warden in 2010. 11, and he adored me, and not in a creepy way. Like, this man is great.

He's actually on my Facebook now. I love him. You both see this. But he was what made me, like, respect the people that were in authority. Not all of them, because you've got some bad apples, but not everybody. But he was a warden that actually cared about us. Like, if the officers were taking our shoes because we had two pairs of shoes and we were supposed to have one, but we used one for wreck.

He would make them give them back. You know, he's like, well, why are we mad if these girls want to run the track? He, my allergies are bothering me. He put this, like, track out at our recreation, you know, that it was like a paved, nice track. But he would come to the law library, like, every, you know, like, every other day and come sit and talk. He knew I was not an inmate that was going to tell him, you know, not tell on people. I wasn't telling, you know, because I had my own dirt and stuff. But he also knew I wasn't down with the bullshit.

Like, I'm not writing up. officers or the inspector. Like if somebody came in there and was like, you know, I'm like, no, no, no, you write the inspector yourself. Because I knew how to play the politics, I guess it was, to be able to, like, for the staff and the inmates to equally respect you, to have that kind of respect. My fiance says it was like the, I was like the Queen of England, you know, at Gadsden, because you had to have less than 15 years to be there.

So I'm the long-timer. There's not that many people there. That's how I met Angela because she ended up becoming my bunky. But at Gatston, I was a big deal, you know. And I was helping a lot. And I never charged one woman to do legal work for them. I know like in the men's prison, they're like... Yeah, it's like a hustle.

Yeah. And I think that that just came from. There was a part of me that felt like this is what I was supposed... I don't know how to make it make sense, but like this is what I'm supposed to. to be here doing. Like this was some type of training purpose. Right. And then I think around my fifth year, I started to stop, like I can remember the day that I stopped blaming everybody else for me getting there. Like I remember the day thinking like nobody put you here but you. And it was such a relief.

It was such a burden that was lifted off to me to like, you did this. Like your mother's not the reason. The doctors aren't the reason. Nobody you put yourself here. And then I felt like, it had to be me that went there for that amount of time. I'm not saying I would ever want to be away from my kids or that situation, but in a way it was like the universe, whoever is looking out for the greater good of things knew. Like Jennifer Lockwood is stubborn. You know, I can look back in my life and see times that I manipulated like my report card or,

and there's, in their little petty things. But in life you can see where at a very young age I learned how to be super manipulative. to get what I wanted or to, and you don't think of it as manipulation, but it is. But I knew around the fifth year that I was exactly where I was supposed to be doing, exactly what I was supposed to be doing, and that whatever was happening was going to be bigger than me. It was going to be, everything was going to be for a purpose. And so with the ladies, I wouldn't charge them and I could have because I felt like it

was some type of like atonement. Like you did this and this, whatever, and this is, you. kind of your give back or whatever, you know? And they would make fun to me. Some of you were like, oh, you know, one time I went under investigation because one of this, like, chicks that came from Lull that everybody knew, she's like a fraudster and, like, writes everybody up and a bunch of grievances said, told the inspector that I would not help people unless they paid me with a carton in Newport.

But the people there knew me and they like, the first of all, she didn't even smoke, but second of all that, so you're like, the lady don't even charge a honeybunt. How are you going to tell us she charges that, you know? But so for the law clerk and all the other things, we also, we would do shows, like huge, like talent shows, Christmas shows, Mother's Day, Black History shows down at rec, right? So Gadsden, I think our capacity was 1,500. So there would be like, you know, 1,500 inmates. And I was the one that put together, like, I would write the play that, like, we would have funny skits, but I'm talking about, like, drama it out, huge productions where the outfits and clothes that, like, my friend Christina, she just got out, she learned,

you know, she got sentenced the same day as me, but she learned that she was, like, painter, artistic, does mural, so we would have her making, like, our outfits, and, of course, we'd have to give them up after the show because they're contraband or whatever, but the outfits and stuff would look like free world stuff, you know, we would paint them, but I was, like, the host and the MC. I think I'm the only person there that could ever host a Black History show and nobody was mad about it. You know, nobody was like, she's why, I wouldn't know. Everybody's like, oh, that's just Lockwood, you know. Even now, just a couple weeks ago, they're doing some type of reunion and my son, Josh was at the house and everybody was on video on Facebooks. We're trying

to put it together. And there was this little girl. She's like, Mommy, who's that white lady? They said, oh, that ain't a white lady. That's Lockwood. You know, that's one of us. But that's, that, That's, yeah, I just was very, very, very loved there or whatever. And, yeah. What are some of the cases you were helping people with? Are these mostly drug cases? Are they fraud cases? Are they open?

In prison or now? In prison. Oh. So, yeah. So at Gasson, there was a lot of DUI manslaughter. A lot of young girls, like, you know, young that, you know, got in a car accident and somebody, I did a lot of DUI manslaughter. Yeah, a lot of drug cases.

A lot of robberies were like the girls like with the boy, you know, like they're there because they went with the boyfriend or they set it up. And then there was a lot of robbery cases where it would be like the girls would be the one to talk. Like say, I'm going to go on a date with so and so. But it's really a set up because your dude's going to really come rob this guy. And I would tell the girls there too in the state of Florida like they would get a principal charge. But a principal charge there is the same as actually doing it. And a lot of the, like, you know, one of the cases that I help, the two dudes had the death penalty,

and she got 10 years. And she came in and she's like, well, I want a sentence reduction. You know, I said, I wouldn't do that because really the way the judge is going to look at this, that crime wouldn't even have occurred if you hadn't been the one that set it up. So there was a lot of the girls that were in there that were doing, you know, 10 or 15 years for. So a lot of robbery, a lot of drugs. And you're mostly just trying to reduce their sentence? So in Florida, you can only ask to reduce sentence, like, within 60 days of being sentenced or, like, 60 days of the appeal.

But no, it's called, I would do, like, post-conviction motion. So you have two years to file a post-conviction motion. Mainly, like, people who went to trial. If you took a plea bargain or you pled out, you know, you don't really want to do a post-conviction motion because you're gambling, you know, with getting more time. But people that went to trial. So mainly ineffective assistance of counsel claims, you know, for, you know, for. failing to call a witness or DNA or whatever. And then, of course, like jail time credit motions where the court didn't give them jail time credit or and also federal habeas corpus. So there's

one motion that we can file in the federal court as a state prisoner and it's called a federal habeas corpus. So in the feds, you guys have like a 2255 and ours is called a 2254. So we can take our argument to the state court and then appeal it. If they deny us, we get that one opportunity need to take it to the federal court and let them. It's kind of cool because it gets it away from like the state and let the feds look at the case and to see, yeah. What was a common age of these women you were incarcerated with? Oh, probably between like 18, 32, 32, 34. You had some older women there and you had a lot of, a lot of like repeat offenders, a lot of prostitution. So in Florida, like if you, like your third prostitution becomes a felony. And yeah, it's ridiculous.

And then, especially at Gadsden, because it's a lower level camp. So you had a lot of driving on license suspended, drive on on license suspended or whatever, a prostitution, drug possession. Also in Florida, you can't habitualize someone if it's like drug possession because in their mind that's a, that person is an addict or they have an addiction problem. But yeah, between like 18 and like mid-30s. You had some people in the 40s and you had a few like, um, like older, older women, but not, yeah, yeah, 1840s, something like that. How did it feel to be sober in there for you? Oh, man. It's, it's, it's, it was great. It's where I figured out who I was. It was, um, it's like, imagine going in and you're like in 27, 28 years old and, you know, you, you, you don't, I didn't know

I didn't know who I was. I didn't know that I didn't, you know, that I, I, I didn't know that I, I, I didn't know that I'd spent my life, like, up into that kind of like trying to keep up with the Joneses or, like, pretending to be, you know, I can always remember trying to pretend to be somebody or better than what I really was. I don't think I really knew who I was. And so when I'm inside of prison and I'm having, like a, I had some really good times in prison. I mean, people say, like, you know, it's like, I'll chain. No, like, I've laughed the hardest, cried the hardest, but laughed the hardest. And we had, like I was telling you with those shows, like, we would have genuine fun and we have nothing but what's in this, you know, a box or whatever.

But I found, you know, found who I was and I found, like, all the talents I had. I didn't know I was an amazing writer. I didn't know I had like the gifted, like, gab as far as, like, to be putting on shows or, like, during the, Toastmasters, like I would win best speaker even, you know, with the free world people. I had a softball team in there that was undefeated. We called it. It was reloaded. It was reloaded one, two, three all the way up.

And they would bring the staff would, or the rec officer would bring his free world, traveling women's league to come in there and play us. And we would play the staff. Because I love softball. I played that my whole life. But, you know, we would beat the staff. Sometimes staff would beat us. but I learned in prison that, yeah, who I was.

And who I was was actually a really cool person and funny and able to, you know, talented. Like, I never thought I was talented. I was a nurse and I was good at that, you know. Oh, yeah, how did that carry over in prison, you know, having those skills, especially because the medical system in prison sucks. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah. I actually had a very good friend of mine that was a law clerk with me that died.

And she was actually 10 years older than me. But, oh, man, I loved her. And yeah, I watched and I would take care of her. I almost got a DR because, you know, she had lost a bunch of way. And they kept telling her she had lupus. Oh, she has lupus. And then I'm like pretty much, a lot of people, I would nurse them in there, you know, because our medical told you to drink water.

Like every solution was you need to drink, you know, drink more water, drink water. And one day my friend Victoria had lost so much weight that I'm like, we got to go to medical. And as I'm taking her over there, one officer was like, Lockwood, you're unauthorized, unauthorized. Well, it just so happened that one of the nurses that I've known forever, because I've been there forever, Ms. Faircloth come walking by, and she's like, Lockwood, is that? And I'm like, yeah, she, you know, she knows this other inmate, and it didn't even look like her. And they took her out to the hospital finally after I'd been caring for her for like two years. And no, she didn't have lupus.

She had like stage four cancer. So we ended up getting a conditional medical release, which is where like, you know, you get to go home instead of having to stay in there. She had the same amount of time as me. And I think she was supposed to go in like a month before me. But we ended up getting her out because she had stage four cancer. And I'll never forget. I called her from the dorm phone. And I'm like, when she finally got out and I'm like, hey, oh my gosh, I'm so happy.

She said, why are you happy? I said, well, you're at home. she said, you're happy? And I'm like, well, and she's like, Jennifer, I'd much rather be in there finishing my time. Because the very first line on conditional medical release says death is imminent. Like, it's there. In other words, she's like, I'm dying and I'm going to die. And so that was, that sucked.

And she did. She died like a week later. Like, she's like, I'm only out. I'm only home for a short amount of time because I'm dying because they, yeah, that's, the medical in prison. Yeah, they don't, they don't. I'm not saying they all don't care, but I saw, I watched a lot. of people die behind the fence that were young, beautiful, didn't have to die, you know, and

yeah. And for some reason, they don't ever seem to be held accountable, but yeah. Now, since you said you weren't charging for your services, how are you supporting yourself in there financially? So, yeah, so my mom, you know, my mom would say, and also, you know, Joshua's dad sent money. I mean, I was, you know, I was definitely had support financial, you know, from outside. Did your mom get some? I may have a girlfriend or two. Oh, a little girlfriend in prison? Yeah, I mean, I may have to, you know. But yeah, but my mom, yeah, my mom 100% rode the entire, you know, she, my mom was a huge advocate.

Like, families against minimum mandatory. It's called fam. She was a huge supporter, donating money because she always thought they were going to be the one, you know, to get me out because they were the ones that were like, you know, breathing down Florida's neck. like this law is unfair, this is not, you know, before they actually changed the law. So my mom was definitely, when she could, she would speak. She would show up at like the sheriff's department's meeting. So, but yeah, she always made sure to keep money on the phone and put money. And of course, you know, Joshua's dad did as well.

Did your mom get sober? Not before I came home. But yeah, she is, yeah. She's actually on a medication now that keeps her from being able to, you know, do medication. But yeah, she is. You know, it's interesting, in your case, prison was good for you. But I guess the broader question for society is how do you know what amount of time is good for someone? In your case, it was probably about five years, but did you need 15?

Absolutely not. That's the million dollar question, right? And I say that all the time. I don't think that I think that I think what I always want people to know is I am never saying that I shouldn't have been punished. Like 100% I should be in trouble. 15 years trouble, it just didn't make a whole lot of sense. Yeah, I think five years, I think five years would have been a lot of time and would have been plenty.

Not to mention the amount of money that they waste on a bed paying for me, you know, for 12 years, nine months, and three days. Like that's a lot. If you look at how much an inmate in Florida, how, you know, they say it costs to house them as like 40-something thousand a year. Think about that in me times 10 years. That's $400,000. But, and I would be considered low level.

I'm not, you know, dangerous. I did end up getting to go to, you know, work release. But I'm not the only one. That's a common thread in Florida is like we're overcrowded our prisons, but they send everybody to prison. I don't think everybody in prison is innocent. Whenever I speak, you know, I work for the Post Conviction Alliance now. I'm like the managing director to say, oh, you think everyone should be released from prison? No, I don't.

That's never what I'm saying. There are some people I met in prison that should never see. ever, ever see the light of day. But Florida gives out way too much time for the crime. It just it never matches, you know, the amount of time for what the crime is is, you know, ridiculous. If the lady before me threw her baby down a set of stairs broke pretty much every bone in the baby's body, the baby that survived, which is awesome, and got seven years, how do you, with a straight face, sentenced me to 15 years right after that? You know I'm not a dealer. you know I'm not, you know, push and draw.

You know I wasn't selling them. You know that I was addicted to them and you can sentence her to seven and come behind, you know. I think with like lawmakers and things, I think sometimes when they put things together, it's a good idea at the time, like, you know, like, hey, this is whatever. But then later when you realize it's, you know, wait a minute, we accidentally caught people that shouldn't be in this, you'll never see somebody go to prison that's innocent or over-sentence and get out within a year. Why is it like 20 or 30 years later? You know, they're very, very slow to correct the...

And most of the people that, probably all the people that wrote these laws aren't even around anymore. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, would there be certain types of people or crimes where you would refuse to help them with legal work? Did you have rules in regards to that in prison?

So, that's funny too. So, no, if any, so the way that they did the law library where I was at is it was by the last two digits of your DC number, they kind of like divided it up. So there would be like three or four law clerks. My boss in the law labor hated me. He called me Aaron Brockovich. He didn't hate me, but he did have a love-hate relationship because everybody's like writing requests to change their law clerk to me. I wouldn't, yeah, there's some cases that. that I just don't want to deal with.

Like, child abuse cases were very difficult for me. I didn't see a lot of those type of cases because I was at a minimum security. You know, so if you were there, you either had a lower level charge or you had done enough time that you weren't even looking for help because you'd have to be below a certain custody to come there. But this is a crazy story. I had this lady come in and she's sitting at my desk and she wants to do clean. And clemency is where, you know, they commute the remaining of your sentence or whatever the governor does.

It never happens. But we don't have parole in the state of Florida anymore. They abolish that in like 1994. So we have clemency. You can, you have to do like a third of your time. And you can ask the governor and the cabinet members to, you know, and you have to put supporting stuff. So anyway, this girl's at there and she's a lady and she's telling me, you know, she's put her clemency package together. Can I just help her? and she starts talking about her charge, and I'm like, God, this sounds so familiar. Well, a few years before I'd went to prison or, you know, one of my very good friends from high school got married to her high school sweetheart, and on the wedding night, they were heading on their honeymoon, you know, after they got married, and they were hit head on on Highway 98, which is like up and destined, up where I'm from.

And so they were in a Ford Explorer. They were hit head on as a drunk driver was going down the highway the wrong way, hits them, and my friend was ejected on her wedding night from the vehicle, and she died, and of course, her husband survived, but she did not. And I'm talking to this lady, and I stop, and I'm like, is your victim's name? And I said my friend's name, and she said, yeah, yeah. And I just like stuff, but I said, I, you know, I can't help you. Like I, and I just started crying.

I said whatever, she needs to leave, reschedule or whatever. And so she's like, you know, though that was rude. And I'm like, well, no, what was rude? You know, what was rude is you killing one of my best friends on her wedding night drive, you know, and I remember being super nasty about it. And long story short, we ended up talking. She met me down at wreck and we talked and she cried and, you know, and healing. And who am I to, you know, hold, like, it was an accident.

Yes, she shouldn't have been drinking, what driving, but I'm not, you know, I'm not the judge or the jury. And the ladies just wanted me to help. but something good came out of that. I was able to actually reach out to my friend's mom, and they were able to talk. The mom came to see her at the prison, and they were able to, like, heal, like, there was, you know.

It's kind of why I think a lot of my prison experiences were, like, things were, like, just like it had to be me, and things were just set up the way that they were because so many crazy things like that happened. But that was, like, one of those situations where I didn't end up helping her. Somebody will still help her with the clemency paperwork just because of the way I did. But I ended up becoming cool with her or listening.

And inevitably, if I judged somebody, like, right off the bat, like, about their charge or just even in my head, like, there was a lady in my dorm. She was, like, Asian. She was hard of hearing. She had hearing aids. And I knew that she was there for a very horrific crime that happened to her son. And he was, like, five years old, and he'd been sodomized. And so I just, I knew her case, but I just didn't really deal with her. And, of course, inevitably, the lady comes to me when she's like,

Can you help me? And write a letter, you know? And I'm like, oh, damn, why? And I'm like, write a letter to who? And she's like, you know, because she doesn't know I don't like her. And not everybody comes to me for these things. And I'm like, to write a letter to who? She's like to my son.

And I'm like, your son. And so I'm thinking it's the son that's been taken from her. So what happened was DCF had taken the son. She had like a date with the son at the McDonald's, like her and her husband. So she's like a mail order bride. I don't know this until that day. She meets him and comes over here. here and they have a child and the little boy is being abused sexually by the father. Well,

the lady who comes to ask me to write is the wife and she gets sentenced to five years, but she's asking me to write a letter to her son back in Asia, wherever he lives at. So I say to her, you know, why are you hard of hearing, you know, what happened? And so she takes out her paperwork. And so really what happened was she was a male order bride. This guy beat her too. And he beat her so badly, the husband that was Sotomayor, beat her so badly that he busted her ear, you know, eardrums and did all kinds of damage. And I remember tears just rolling down my face. It would happen any time I, like, prejudged anybody. I would end up hearing their story or, like, I think that's what made me good at it, is that I had the ability that anybody that

set up my desk, I could have been me, should have been me, has been me. I was heading, I was heading that way, I just put myself in that person's shoes. And then if I are judged them on my mind, I never wanted to help. And then something like that would happen. So she showed me her paperwork. And the judge said, I'm giving you five years, not because I think that you did any of these things, but because when those DCF workers moved into, you know, take your son, you could have told them then and gotten helping you didn't.

So basically, like, she was there because the judge was holding her accountable for, but she was terrified. You know, she's not even from this country. And, yeah. Now that woman that killed your friend, how much time did she end up serving? So she ended up doing, she ended up getting like 20 years and she did 17. So she had been to prison for years before I even came. So she was close to like the end of her 10 years before I came because this happened,

no, eight years before I came because I was in my early 20. So keep in mind she's done a lot of her time. But then you compare that to you. And, you know, that's only a few years difference. and you didn't hurt anyone but yourself. Right. It's crazy. Yeah, that was probably the hardest, like the hardest, and I was going to say pill to swallow,

but that's not a good analogy. But that was, it was. That's a lot where the bitterness when I first came, that's what it was, is I would look at, I would be reading their paper, like, how? How did you get nine years? You know, how could they get, at that time? Like, how could you do this to me? How could you take me away from my kids?

Like, I didn't hurt anybody. never heard anybody. I didn't, you know, I didn't take anybody's medicine that was supposed to have it. And I'm like, oh, this is for me. My crime did not involve, yeah, it didn't involve anybody else. I mean, except for, you know, the doctor's trust and maybe the guy's name that I used or, you know, that's no longer here. Lerrest is not even being funny. You know what I mean? But I didn't really have a victim, you know. Now, those encounters that you're just describing, what lessons did that teach you? the encounters with the these two these women specifically and I'm sure you met a lot of yeah yeah well yeah and when I said earlier like before I went I was kind of opinionated and I was

a little bit judgmental and you know I honestly believed if you were in prison you deserve to be there you know that if you you know if you somebody got the time well you did the crime do the time not that I would outwardly say that but inside you know I grew up my family my my mom my stepdad they're kind of conservative they're you know pretty concerned so if you were in prison that's where you were supposed to be, but it just made me realize that, you know, and I tell my kids this now, I tell my friends, like, your life can change in 20 seconds. It's just 20 seconds. I saw women that would come in and a gun would go off and it wasn't supposed to, and in 20 seconds their whole life would change. My baby, my prison daughter, Angela, like 20 seconds, one decision, you know. You know her story.

I don't have to say that, but it just taught me that. nobody is, none of us are above ending up in prison. Most of us, the people that haven't been, they just haven't been caught. I'm sure there's some goody, two-shoe people that have never done anything, but you could accidentally do something. I mean, I met people that were there for, you know, accidentally they weren't drunk, hit somebody, didn't know they hit somebody, thought they had a cone, go home, they get arrested for, you know, vehicular manslaughter. What I'm saying is that anything can happen at any time. And it also taught me to, like, there's always two sides to the story and then the truth,

but there's always more to a situation than what's on the piece of paper. You can read somebody's information and indictment and it say whatever, but chances are that's not exactly how that went down. If you read my charges, it says trafficking heroin, opium, opiate, do you know how many times I've had to show the things or the articles to say because it doesn't seem believable. You got 15 years for 60 Lortabs, Jen. Like, come on. Well, I send them the Rolling Stone or send them the information where I was charged because I did get 60. I did get 15 years for 60 Lord Tats, but that doesn't seem believable. Many people was like, that can't be true. It is

true. I said that to say that sometimes what might be written there or whatever. And people, people believe a lot of times that the media doesn't like lie or that, you know, or that state prosecutors don't, you know, do anything shady or that cops never plant things or, you know, I mean, I work in a field now that happens all the time. If somebody says to me on a legal call, you're probably not going to believe me, try me. I bet you I will. I've seen some pretty, pretty shady, some crazy things, you know. I think it just, I'm just a better person. I'm just more humble and I am super, you know, probably I am a little bit, what do you call it, desensitized to things that I shouldn't be desensitized to. Like, Dateline in 2020 has nothing on my like normal life

because most of my clients now are men that are in prison, lots of them serving life and things. But I'm also super like empathetic and I, and what makes me great at this. What I do now is that I have the ability from both sides. Like I've set there and, you know. How did it feel getting close to your release date once it was set in stone and you knew it was coming? What was that like? So for me, I was able to go to work release. So that was, you know, Florida has work release, but it's not mandatory, but it's a very few percentage that actually get to go because a lot of your charges exclude you from being able to go. So I was able to go to, I think, my last year to a work release center, which is so crazy, too, because I went to go sign for a work release. My classification

officer has so sick of me writing, like, hey, am I eligible for work release yet? You know, so she calls me down there, and I'm like, yay, and I'm dancing. She's like, Lockwood, shut the door, sit down. And the classification officer, she used to be a sergeant. And I'm like, what? I'm here to sign. She's like, no, you're here because you have a warrant. And I'm like, I'm like, is it? I'm like, a warrant. She's like, yes, you have a warrant. She's like, I went to run an NCIC for you to go to work release, it came back this warrant. I'm like a warrant from where? So long story short, when everything was happening, I had to take my kids to their dad. I was on my way back. I knew I was probably going to prison, didn't still believe that amount of time. I got a speeding ticket in Flomington,

Alabama that I never paid. I got sentenced to 15 years. So that warrant kept me from signing, but I ended up, you know, getting it cleared up and I was able to go. But so my transition back into society was helped a little bit because at work release you go, you know, you go to work and you come back there. Everybody laughs because they let me bartend in work release, which is they don't let people part in. But we were at a, I won't name the work release center. I was at boat. I was in a work release center that was down south and it closed and then we got shipped to another one. And the lady that worked out at the gate where you like come back in, like the cab or the Uber brings you back in would call me at work and be like, lockwood.

You bartending? I said, yeah, she's like, bring me some Hennessy. And so it was great because anybody that was coming back with me to work release, if you had a vape or you had, you know, pre-world perfume or something, you know, well, you knew if you were coming back in the same cab as me that you were going to get to slide, you know, get to slide right on through because the lady at the gate is, she's like, don't put no ice in it, just straight Hennessy. I'm like, should I have done that?

I don't know. I know she never searched me, so, you know. What year were you finally released? I came on February 5th of 2022. What was it like getting out after that much time gone, reuniting with your kids? Yeah, so I had met my fiancé now, so I got out in February, and then we went to the, we went, he took me to the Florida Keys, and I thought maybe I was going to be killed or something, because you wouldn't tell me where I'm going.

But we had been dating, and that's another, you know, another subject for another time on how we met, because it was in prison, and how did that happen? But I'm not going to go into all that today. but so he takes me down to the keys or whatever and we get engaged and we best relationship I've ever been into my life but he's also been you know and he's been through the same thing that I've been through you know so it ended you know an amazing relationship but so I come I come back but I thought I would be fine but I cried like every day for like the first seven months and and I told everybody that I just got out of prison why you know he'd be like Jen listen you know you

don't have to tell the lady out, you know, at the bank that you just got out of prison. They don't know, you know. And, you know, and I was like, just things had changed. And that's a good question. What happened was it was trying to come home with my children who are, you know, Josh at the time was like 13 turning 14. Oh, that was tough. And then, you know, Brendan and Jacob were grown. But it's like letting go of the Jennifer that I was, but still being that Jennifer, because that was their mom. but like combining the new Jennifer who, you know, who is different. I'm so different to my family. My niece accidentally sent me a text message she meant for her mom. And she'd asked me about a problem one day.

And I said, you know, really? What you know, what you need to do is you need to just go and you need to think about it. You know, I'm like level-headed where before I'd been like, oh, tell that bitch to shut up. And you do what you want to do? And so she writes her mom. She goes, what happened to Aunt Jen in prison? She's like, oh, Zen and boo. and like Gandhi and shit.

And I'm laughing like, that's not true. But the person I was versus who I am now, it's not the same, you know, I'm not the same person. You know, I was dramatic and chaotic and my, you know, it was my way or no way. And I'm just not that person. But I did. I'd cry like every day. And my fiancee was like, so finally one day I'm like, you know, he comes in.

I'm like, kind. He's like, what's wrong? I'm like, what do you mean? What's wrong? I just got out of prison. He goes, when are you going to stop using? I just got out of prison. You know, like let it go that you just got out of prison.

That kind of snapped me back, but it was like I was paralyzing myself. Yes, did I get scammed by people sending me things saying they were Netflix? And I just paid my Netflix and they emptied my whole account because I didn't know any better because I had been gone. Yes. Did I know how to work the thing at Walmart? No. Was Blockbuster gone? And that blew my mind?

Yes. But in the big scheme of things, you know, life was okay. It was me like, I don't know. like I would go on vacation or go to like Boca or whatever and I wouldn't post the pictures. And my fiance would be like, you know, and it's like I was, I felt guilty. I felt guilty like living and having a good time. Like how could I come home and be like happy and on vacation when my kids were without me for all these years? And so it was like just trying to merge all these things and let go of the guilt.

I remember we all went to a cabin. My fiance got us a cabin in Tennessee. So first time we had all, me and the children. We had all been under the same roof. And they're women and kids and whatever in, you know, 13 years. And so we're in the hot tub and I'm drinking some type of, I don't drink now. I drink a couple times when I first came home. But I just felt like anything I wasn't, like didn't want anything to have control over me.

I don't even smoke wheat, whatever. But we're in the hot tub and I have a little seltzer or whatever. And I'm like, and boys, and I'm so sorry. And they're like, mom, let that shit go. like we love you. You're amazing. Like, it was that day that I, they're like, let it go. We love you. We know that you would have been there if you could, you know. And they didn't hate me and they should have, but they didn't. And like I said, for 10 years, I didn't talk, you know, to the oldest two. And it was like, it was crazy that I had that much forgiveness, which brings me back to my real dad. Like I wish I would have done that differently. My youngest son, Josh, we are. Josh is, he just turned 19 yesterday. He's like, I don't know how this kid ended up so much like me for me to be gone.

I was gone his whole life. I often ask myself, who had it worse? The two boys I put to bed every night that were eight and nine that, you know, their mom got snatched or the baby that never had the mom at all, you know, home at all, not that he remembers. But Josh would come to visitation because, you know, I was allowed to see him. And he would like break dance and dance for the. for like the microwave line and everybody would be like that's Lockwood's kid

because I was always dancing in prison and doing stuff but he would dance and sing so when he was probably like in sixth grade he wrote a song and he plays a guitar and stuff now and it was called Holiday Smooch which I'm just telling you this because this is great but everybody in the door

everybody at the gas and they love me so they love Josh and Josh has been coming there since he's a baby Josh runs VP he's like mom you remember them cards the playing cards which had like homicide victims and prostitutes on the back, I'm like, yes, Josh, you know the, like, playing cards they give out, you know what I'm talking about now? No, maybe.

So in VP, they give playing cards, but for us to play cards, but they're like to play spades or whatever, but on the back of them, it's like unsolved homicides. This is like, what your little kid is up there. But, um, so I used to play cards with Josh, and, but anyway, he would like dance or, you know, do whatever, but he wrote this song called Holiday Smooch, and then, um, I called him from the dorm. And so it was just like, it said, I want a holiday, smooch from the hottest girl in school. And so I have all the chicks in my dorm and they remix it

and we call, we call him or whatever. And to this day, he still talks about that. They just, you know, everybody calls him baby Josh or Uncle Josh. But when I first came home, Josh was like 13. And he wasn't, unlike the other kids, he wasn't allowed to be mad at me. He wasn't allowed to get on the phone and be disrespectful. Like his dad would be like, that's your mom. Get on there and tell her, you know, how your grades are. So, and plus, like people would say, when your mom gets home, you know, that's not going to, you know, work. So he didn't even know me. He knew me because he talked to me at home, but he didn't know me, you know.

And he had this fear of me and, you know, and he wasn't allowed to be angry. So when I first get out of prison and I get picked up, I fly home, you know, by myself. I don't take my family. I just fly home. And I remember sitting in the hotel room. It's me and Jake and Josh. And I have to listen to these rap songs that he's written about me that are kind of like M&M-and-ish. like my mom on opiates, my dad living in the trailer part, whatever it is. You know, and I have to be like,

son, that is so good. Like, you're super talented. I'm so happy that you put, you know, and so we are trying to build our relationship, but we're just moving along, like nothing's going on. And my fiance and him hit it off really well. They have similar, like, you know, he didn't like his dad and Josh's mom. So they kind of connected on the, you know, absent parent thing. So Josh and I went into a store in the mall and I was getting a school clothes and he wanted this shirt that said I like milfs or something you know something like I like milfs it's like a hoodie and he's like 13 and I'm like no I'm not you know um I said Josh I'm not getting you that how would you feel you know if your friend wore something he go and he turns around he goes my friends don't even know who you are

they wouldn't want to have sex with you because they don't even know you and I remember like all the blood like that was just his like um like his anger you know, all that had been put up. And so I like get him out of the story and get in the car. And I said, and I said, first and foremost, if you think I don't know where I've been. Moral to this story is he, I said, if you think I know where I've been for 13 years, I absolutely do. I said, but if you ever disrespect me like that again and he just, I look over and tears are rolling down his face, tears are rolling down my, but that day it was like, I'm like,

you can be mad. You can tell me how you feel. you can tell me that there were times you went to bed hungry and you hate me for you can but what you won't do is you won't not try you won't disrespect me and from that day on that me and this kid have been like I mean I love him so much we are so close and I'm like I know this text me like this is super random but um he's the most humble genuine so much like me but he's the most he's the he's the better me he's the authentic version of me that like there he has no judgment and he says to me like mom I know you feel bad or whatever, but this happening made me who I am.

And he's like, and I wouldn't trade it for one thing in the world. He's the kindest, just purest version of a person, you know, that he doesn't try to be anybody else. And we are super close. So for whatever reason, the universe, God, whatever it was that you believe, what it's spirit. He restored every single thing that I was told, you'll never get back. you'll never you'll never work in the legal field you certainly won't have the position you have now um yeah i have great relationships what do you do now for work okay so i have been with the post

conviction alliance since 2002 um basically we're a non-profit that represents uh defendants so 99% of our clients are incarcerated so either they've been wrongfully convicted or over sentence and in florida a lot of its over sentencing so i am the mayor of it's over sentencing so i am the managing director and over intake. I started out as the paralegal. I work with a co-defendant. I'm co-defendant. He is a co-defendant. My co-defendant, he did 21 years in prison. He got sentenced to prison at 16 years old as a juvenile. They sent him to 30 years. He ended up litigating himself out of prison. But until I met him, I thought all these guys that are law clerks are just a bunch of talk. They have like one motion they know how to do and that's it. But he's the real deal.

We're like crazy, but we literally are like I write the motions, the legal arguments, go to court with the attorney. Only thing I can't do is put my name on the bottom because I don't have a bar license. Florida said they'll never let me do that even though we've written and tried and lawyers. I've worked with so many attorneys that are like, this girl is better than 90% of the post-conviction criminal defense attorneys we know. But that's because I learned fighting for my own, you know. and when we first started working with our legal director now, she'd never had a paralegal or anybody write anything. If you asked her today, she would say,

if I was on a desert island, Jennifer wrote a brief that had to be filed with the appellate court, and I couldn't approve it because I'm on the desert island. I would absolutely tell her to file it. That's how I know it would be good and solid. So I get to advocate and fight for the people that I, you know, that are still behind the fence especially in Florida, because, like I said, they give out so much time.

And I'm like the selling factor because when the people, I get to talk to all the clients before, like I said, they're incarcerated. So we set up a call with them on a line that's not monitored. But I get to talk to them and they, first off, they know I'm smart. You know, they realize, hey, this girl knows what you're talking about. But second, this girl's been where I've been. So she sat behind a fence so I can relate on, you know, so many different levels. I love what I do now.

I love like, you know, Angel and I went to the Tampa Bay Criminal Justice Summit. I love advocating, speaking. I love telling my story, but starting out, not saying I went to prison, then drop, Mike drop, I went to prison, and then they'll say, oh, you don't look like you've been to prison. Well, what does it look like? I met doctors, lawyers. You know, I met pharmacists, you know, a psychologist in prison. Anybody can end up in prison.

It's just, you know. Does it feel like you lost 13 years? of your life? Yes and no, but, you know, I remember, like I said, thinking I'm going to be in my 40s and now you can't tell me shit. And when I first came home, I still feel like I'm in my, they say that prison preserves you in certain ways, right? But, and then they said some people, like, if you get put in when you're 27 or 28, you come

out, you're like 20. I don't think I came out mentally like that because, you know, I'm a grown woman doing grown woman things. But I think, like, I still run around like I'm, you know, in my 20s. only way that I can measure time and that it actually affects me is my kids, you know, or my nieces or my nephews because, you know, time didn't wait and they're grown. But some days it does not seem like, no, that it was 13 years. And then other days, it's like that was a lifetime ago. And then some days I wake up and think, damn it, they stole 13 years, you know, and I'm getting

older and I can't get that time back. But I just try to move forward and live life to the fullest. I love reggae music and festival and stuff. So I'm, you know, I am right now living life. And that's, some people are like doing life, but I am trying to do life and help others, but actually live life too. Now, if the current version of you now could be in that pharmacy that day, where your life got switched upside down and be behind you when you were waiting in line, what would you say to your old version of you? If I could, I, I've asked myself that before, and I would absolutely turn and walked out the door because, The look that the pharmacist gave me that day, that's a look I talk about if you watch any of my other interview, that I'll never forget.

And that's what he was looking at me, like, go, don't do this. Like, don't, you know. But again, if you'd have told me then that, whatever. But today I would hope that today I would respect addiction. That's the thing about it. I don't, you know, and I don't want to say this to come off wrong. Like, I don't hate drugs. I don't hate pills.

I mean, I don't have never smoked crack. But you know what I'm saying. But I respect it. You know, you got to respect, especially if you've ever been addiction, because not too long ago, somebody asked me, like, well, how do you know? Like, what if you took a pill today? And I would never do that. And I would never do that. And I don't say never.

I'm one of those people that say never, never, never, but I hate what it did to my life. And I'm not willing to, I'm not willing to sacrifice any part of my life to see what this pill may or may not do to me because that's how much I respect opi is. I have a very respectful relationship with them. They stay over there and I stay over. here because, you know, with a lot of addicts, they'll tell you, pick it up and it just, the cycle begins again, and it doesn't take years to pick it and go way off. It's like kind of, you know, so that's kind of the reason I stopped drinking, too, is because I was drinking a drink here or there, but it's like, what if I play, now I play the tape all the way out, what if you're drinking

and somebody does this, and then then you're inhibition, then this, and then I'm just like, you know what, I'm not going to do anything that controls, that I have to worry, that'll put me in a situation or anything that controls or dictates my life. I had somebody telling me what to do for 13 years in a prison cell. And prior to that, I was a slave to the pill and make sure I had it so that I could survive the next day. So yeah. Well, Jennifer, I appreciate you coming on the show today. Oh, thank you. I've talked to your ear off. No, you did great. I mean, you know the format of my show. It's mostly guest-driven and you did amazing. And I wish you all the best in the future. Well, you're awesome. And I'm super proud of you because when I first discovered you, I went down your rabbit

Holland, wow. And you've been on Netflix? Not Netflix, HBO. Well, whatever. HBO's better than Netflix, in my opinion. But yeah, whatever. But yeah, super proud of you. But thank you for having me. Yeah, of course. Thank you.