Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was a Vice Lord From Compton — Then Spent 22 Years in Mississippi's Worst Prison | Diaz Aguilar

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

Diaz Aguilar grew up in Compton California raised by a single mother who struggled with addiction — and when the streets filled the gap the Vice Lords became his family. In this episode of Locked In with Ian Bick, he shares how a trip to Chicago pulled him into the Vice Lords, how a trip to Mississippi ended with a manslaughter charge for something he says he did not do, and what losing at trial and being sentenced to 20 years in Mississippi's most brutal maximum security prison actually felt like for a Vice Lord from Compton who knew he was innocent. He opens up about the prison politics inside Mississippi's worst facility, what life as a Vice Lord inside those walls actually required of him, and what 22 years of wrongful incarceration really does to a person before they find a way to keep going. _____________________________________________ #wrongfulconviction #TrueCrime #prison _____________________________________________ Connect with Diaz Aguilar:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/diaz_santiago_55?igsh=MTZvMWkxM2U4MDB6dA== _____________________________________________ Buy his book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GZYDGM5J?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_apan_dp_Y0MGDT0AZRAAQKJ14QC9&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_apan_dp_Y0MGDT0AZRAAQKJ14QC9&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_apan_dp_Y0MGDT0AZRAAQKJ14QC9&bestFormat=true&fbclid=PAcGRvZgJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZA8xMjQwMjQ1NzQyODc0MTQAAaccY68BMUhqLOhGfqVyG5b0jFGHckUvPBwgIetA_Sm_iCFscImzCEQEJWavmA_aem_mhRhsWedJChoBH70P-GvTA&utm_content=link_in_bio&utm_medium=social&utm_source=ig ____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Intro: Diaz Aguilar's Story 00:18 Growing Up in Compton 01:41 Mother's Addiction & Early Hardships 03:59 Friendships & Finding Family 05:04 Reflections on Mother-Son Relationship 07:36 Childhood Trouble & Gang Influence 09:01 Neighborhood Gangs and Associations 10:03 Joining the Vice Lords 13:13 Gang Symbolism & Identity 14:55 Dreams, Aspirations, and Early Outlook 16:18 School Life and Influential Teacher 17:52 Writing Inspiration & Starting a Book 21:02 Adoption, Family Changes & Moving to Mississippi 25:31 Troubled Adoption and Feeling Isolated 28:44 Mississippi: New Beginnings and Trouble 31:31 The Incident: Manslaughter Charge 38:12 Court, Trial, and Sentencing 43:03 Life in Mississippi State Penitentiary 50:12 Gang Dynamics and Prison Politics 01:00:19 Economics of Prison: Protection and Extortion 01:08:45 Adapting and Surviving in Prison 01:13:15 Solitary Confinement and Mental Health 01:17:51 Struggles for Justice & Maintaining Innocence 01:23:00 Life After Release: Reentry Challenges 01:24:47 Relationships, Intimacy & PTSD  01:26:34 Making Peace and Coping with Trauma 01:33:32 Thoughts on Gang Life Now 01:34:12 Wisdom Gained: Reflections on Life 01:35:50 Life Today: Work, Books & New Beginnings 01:38:40 Closing Thoughts & Farewell _____________________________________________  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka

My guest today is Diaz Aguilar. He grew up in Compton and became a vice lord. Then he was convicted of manslaughter and spent more than two decades inside one of Mississippi's toughest prisons. Today, he's sharing what really happened. Where'd you grow up, Diaz? Compton, California. What was your upbringing like over there? Um, well, kind of grew up in a single family, right?

My mother, uh, you know, something is a kind of. of sensitive topics. You know, my mother was a crack smoker. You know, so there was times that when she got food, supposed to provide food in a house, she'll go buy drugs. So it kind of left me in a position to where I had to kind of fend for myself. Where was your father? Never met him?

No. It was nowhere in the picture. Was there a stepdad at all? Nope. Any siblings or just you and your mother? No, just me. Did you know at an early age that she had an addiction issue? Not really.

You know, when you young, you don't really think about things like that. You don't really play a part on your psych. It ain't until you're introduced to it that you actually start paying attention to it. And I think that's what it was. I think maybe nine, 10 years old, I started seeing it because I'm trying to figure out why there's never no food in the house. And then I actually walked in on her actually smoking. And that's when I, you know, kind of put it together.

Did you ask her what she was doing? Nah, I didn't want to question her. That's my mother. But because my friends growing up in the neighborhood, that kind of like brought me up to speed or what's going on why this is happening because it was going on in their household. So one of my best friends named Donald F. Scott, never forget him. He thought he was babyface like the R&B singer and he kind of like literally introduced me to baby face. I run away from home, spend a night at his house.

And he's one of the characters in the book. That was slim in the book. And I talked to him. So some things kind of, you know, because I would talk about it. Right? So I talked to him. I was like, man, you know, I saw my mom doing this and doing that. You know, he was like,

told me what it was. So I just put two and two together, kind of realized, this is why we don't have food in the house, this is why this is going on, you know, stuff like that. So I just kind of, you know, I just kind of put everything together. So. How was your mom and yours relationship? Pretty good.

It just, excuse me. It just, you know, I don't talk about these things. So that's still my mother. You know, at the end of the day, like, I can't understand why, you know, she did what she did. But I kind of do. But it's just, you know, everyone just not, like, strong. So I just learned to accept it, adapt to it and not let my emotions and feelings like, be a part of my judgment.

You know, I just, all right, cool. It is what it is. So I just learned to accept it for what it was. It kind of remove any type of emotions, any type of attachment. You know, that's why it was kind of easier for me to attach myself away from people. You know, it was because of her. So, and I kind of like stray from, people talking to me about my family, my mom, because it's always something, it's sensitive,

as you can see, you know. So, you know, that's really it. I mean, at the end of the day, she carried me for nine months, you know. She really didn't start using until after I was born. You know, I never been the type to be addicted to any type of vices. because of that, you know. I think the only drug ever used was marijuana, you know. And I don't hold no blame to her.

I don't have no ill will. You know, she'll always be my mother. I love her. You know, so that's basically the case. What were you like as a kid? Trouble. Trouble. I wanted to be in the streets.

I didn't have no guidance, you know. I looked to the gangs, I looked to the drug dealers, you know, typical stuff. You know, those are the people I looked up to. But I wasn't really more into the drug dealing simply because of what my mother was going through. You know, but I kind of like turned to the gang members. You know, the area I grew up in, if anybody's familiar with, Compton, California, the Paroos, you know, Paroo Street. You know, before it actually became a gang, it was known as the Paroo Boys, the Paroo

Street Boys, you know, and from the 70s, kind of trickled down into a gang, and the neighborhood I grew up in was Frewtown, Pairoo. Pro Town bomped the Pai Roo is what they call it now, East Side. Is that a set of something? Yes. It's a set of the Pai Rues. And so once upon the time, it was a lot of beef between us and a rival Pai Roo game, right? So Compton is the only one that's known to have Pai Rules.

Outside of Compton is Bloods, right? But we fall up under the umbrella. They rock red. The pie rules were a burgundy or a crimson red color. And our beef was with the tree top pie roots. And the separation was what my book is titled, Rosecrans. You know what I'm saying? That's the separation.

Rosecrans is the only street. You know, that runs from the heart of Compton all the way to the beach, Manhattan Beach, Hermosal Beach. You know, anyone that's familiar with, But Compton, with note by Rosecrans. DJ Quick, man, came out with an album called Rosecrans. Tupac in California, love. Shout out to Rosecrans. That's what Kendrick Lamar is from.

You know, so Rosecrans is very popular. So now you joined the Pairoos? No, actually, I never did. I grew up in a neighborhood. I'm guilty by association. But when I was 12, I went to a family reunion in Chicago on the West Side. out of Chicago, and I actually joined the Almighty Vice Lord Nation. I mean, it's tattered all over me.

It's on my face. And I became a part of them of a branch called the Imperial and Saints of Vice Lords. So you were able to go there, join that gang and then go back to California? Actually, I did. All in the span of the weekend of a party? Yep. Of a family reunion. But when I went back to California,

I was guilty by association. So Vice Lord is always associated with the color red, but though it wasn't our primary colors, there's always been like golden black, the opposite of the Latin Kings. You know, so I always embraced the red anyways, always. But, you know, I never discussed. you know,

disclose my, gang affiliation. I always just represented red, you know, but I was always tied to the vice lords in Chicago.

Were there a lot of vice lords in Compton? No, never. I might have been the first. But you do have a street organization of the Black Peacstone

Bloods that came from Chicago migrated by way of T. Rogers. to South Central, to the jungle. What the movie, Training Day was filmed in.

Yeah. So that's the only gang in California that has migrated from somewhere else that has not originated right there in L.A. is the Black Peacstone Bloods. What was it about the vice lords that you liked rather than join, say, a California game? Identification.

They were identified by. symbols, five-point star, Playboy bunnies, cane glove, hat, you know, the embodiment of it, where California games were only identified by color, red or blue, where Chicago-based games were identified by symbols, you know, whether it's the people nation or the folk nation, they always fell up under those two umbrellas since the 70s simply because either you rock with a six-point star or a five-point star. And that's why I had the two stars up under my eyes, you know, to show my affiliation to the People Nation, the Almighty Vice Lord nation, in the Playboy Bunny.

Now the Vice Lords were okay with you rapping in California? They kind of knew because I kind of basically told them I'm from L.A. I'm from Cali, you know, but it wasn't about that at that particular time. It was about if they can branch out, so be it, you know, hoping that I can establish a chapter in Compton, California at that time. Because everyone knew Compton was known as a gang capital, you know. So, but that wasn't my thing. My thing was, you know, I came from a broken family. was just trying to be a part of something.

Were you able to set up a chapter? No. No. I just want to be affiliated with something. I wanted to be different. I don't want to be. My only option is a color, you know, and no symbols. Because I can still show my affiliation by symbols and not by coats.

Because I'm doing it now. I have my affiliation on my face. Playboy Bunny, Five Point Stars, Imperial Saint, on my eyebrow. You know, so. What did you want to be when you grew up when you were a kid before joining a gang? You know, it's crazy because I told my friend on the way coming up here what I always wanted to do. And it's not what I want to do now, right? But when I was younger, my thing was, I mean, I was.

mean, to be real with you, was to rob a casino. To rob a casino? Yeah, I always wanted to be known, like, pulling one of the biggest heist in casino history, pulling it off. Like, that was my actual thing. That was my dream. Like, literally. Where did that come from?

Did you watch a movie? Movies. You know, just, like, one thing I realized in life, you know, there's only two types of people in the world, the have and the have-nots. And being part of the have-nots, you know, I was like, well, what I had to lose other than my freedom, you know, life. You know, it's like some things didn't even really matter to me. You know, I didn't really care about, you know, what I was free, what I was locked up. I was just, I was looking for the rush, you know, and I was like, you know what, I wouldn't be like, man, to pull a heist, one of the biggest heist in history of knocking off a casino.

Like, that was always my vision, my goal. I mean, I never went through with it. You know what I'm saying? It was always just a vision. You know, and as I got older, you know, I was like, nah, I don't want to do that. Because it's, I know I'm going to die. You know, so. How were your teenage years? Did you stay in school?

Off and on. Off and on. I actually had a best friend of mine that was my school teacher in the ninth grade. His name is Mark E. Swinton. I actually put him in a book. That is a real character. I don't know if I'll be sued, but hopefully he won't sue me. You know what I'm saying? But he's actually, I used him in my book as a real character. And he was always my guidance. I was always on my lunch break. Like literally I would always go to him, talk to him, you know, try to understand life.

You know, like I wouldn't always, deep down the side. I wasn't always a bad person. I just always made wrong choices. You know what I'm saying? Because I didn't really have no guidance, you know. And so Mark Swinton, right, is actually, he's, I don't know if I can say this or not, right? But he's Tala Perry's senior vice president of Tala Perry Studios and the executive producer of all his TV shows. or whatever Tyler Perry produces, he's the executive producer of it.

And that's who inspired me to write the book. Because when I was locked up in 2003, he sent me this book called How to Write Movie Scripts. Right. So I'm locked up in segregation. I'm doing a whole of time. I've been in there maybe four years. right don't have a clue on what's going on

period on nothing I'm like excommunicated from society no newspapers no calls no nothing

I'm like like fuck it man this this this this is home right now I'm only going to worry about what's going on here

and he sent me a book in the mail this he was he was working with Russell Simmons at this time, when Russell Simmons had that death poetry jam, right? He was working with Russell then. And I said, what the hell? He sent me a damn how to write movie scripts.

You know what I'm saying? Like, man, I don't know how to write no book. I don't write. But even when I was in high school, right, he always encouraged me to write. He said, man, you have a story. He said, you may not see it. but you do. He said, one day your story

you're going to come out. He always told me that, right? So, uh, all right, whatever. You're speaking from a teacher perspective. You know what I'm saying?

So he actually turned down a job, a six, seven-figure job working with Disney to work at my high school, Compton High School, right? In the early 90s,

Right. So every lunch I would go to him. I would talk to him. You know, he was like, man, she'll write a book, man. Like, you know, people will buy you. You know, you have a very interesting story, you know, the way you kind of grew up, your mother, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I always kind of like, uh, that's sensitive stuff. That's personal. I don't want to buy it know nothing about that. You know what I'm saying? But when I start paying attention to other people's stories, I started to see that, you know, you're not the only one that's going through it. Your story might be the one man that actually would change somebody's life around. Your story, it might be the one that somebody wanted here.

I said, okay. For the 2018, when we got the cell phones, I mean, we had the cell phones in the system, right? But they weren't advanced as they were in 2018. So when 2018 wrote a round, I was like, man, I got like three years left before I get out, right? So I went on YouTube and I actually saw a guy with the same book that I had on how to write movie scripts, right? And I followed that format. I stuck to it. That's when I started writing.

and the originality of the book that's out now is the same format that I wrote it when I was locked up. So when you read it, you're reading it from a person that was sitting on the bunk and writing it. Nothing changed. Nothing. I have 100% of the creativity of my book

and the cover of my book. So the way you see it, It's how I envisioned it and it's how I wrote it. Nothing changed. Yeah, they might change maybe the grammar, but not too much. Right. So, and now later on, right, come to find out, my friend now, Mark E. Swinton, he got like seven secretaries, right?

It's so hard to get in touch with him. he's the executive producer of all of Tyler Perry material he's the senior vice president of Tyler Perry I remember 2013 maybe he tried to send me some money like $500 right he was in the airport in Atlanta right he's like man your uh department of correction number still the same I said yeah I said never change he's like man I'm seeing you $500 so oh no no I said they're I ain't even about the money. I didn't call for that. I called a check on you because I look at you as my brother.

Your struggles are my struggles. You know what I'm saying? Like, I ain't called for that. It ain't even about the money. You know what I'm saying? Because if I need some, I know how to go get it. You know what I'm saying? And he still is sending me the money.

And now he's a millionaire. And I remember when he was struggling. Oh, the IRS. then didn't have nowhere to go, didn't know where the next meal was coming from, you know, things like that. And, you know, because of him, he inspired me to be able to write. And it's because of him I was able to write my book. Did you end up graduating high school? Yes.

I don't know how, but I did because I miss a lot of classes. I used to catch the guy. So they flipped it on us. So, you know, the second period class is your attendance class. But it wasn't. They changed it to the first period. What was that, home room? Yeah, home room.

But homeroom with Pobie's second period at my high school anyways at Compton High. So what we'll do is the A building was considered as the administration building, right? So we'll catch the people The teachers, pets When they're running up there To administration to turn in those forms They so crazy By doing it in a pencil form

And the number two pencil We'll catch the guys coming up there Right Because we're street dudes Right Either you give us the paper Or we're going to beat you up So they'll give us the paperwork

We'll have a number two pencil we'll erase it and we'll mark attendance like we was there you know what I'm saying and we'll tell them go turn it in and if you do anything different if you say anything different and we hear anything different we're going to come see you and that's how we used to do it what happens after high school once you graduate oh man nothing like stayed in the streets hustling They're trying to live day day. Didn't really have no set goal, you know, just living, you know. And so the crazy thing is, so I was adopted, right?

I got adopted. And so when I moved to, I went to go visit Meridian, Mississippi in 1999. I went there to go visit. And that's when I got jammed up on a manslaughter charge. Why did you visit Mississippi? Because I have family out there. Your adopted family? Yes.

So you got adopted after your mom? Yeah. So in your teenage years, you were put up for adoption? Yeah. Okay. And my mother still stayed in contact with me, but it was just a whole lot of broken promises. You know, I'm like, I'm listening to different people in my ear.

you know, in which I wish I didn't at the time. I wish I would just believe in my mother. But I knew the promises she were making was more or less, man, on the drugs that were talking, not her. You know, and some things you really don't come into a understanding until later on in life as you become older and wiser, you know. And now it's like, I wish I just would have stayed. in touch. How was this family that adopted you? Well, things didn't really deviate until I got locked up, right?

Because I recall, and I even told my partner that's over here, you know, man, it was a time, man, Christmas, Thanksgiving, it was one of those holidays, one of those major holiday. I was just calling, man, to speak to the family because I had access, I had communication, you know. Because one thing about pay phones, everybody can't afford it. They might accept a couple calls here and there, but it's not a lifetime thing, right? But when you have your own cell phone, you can reach out when you want to. So I happen to call, I can't remember if it was Christmas or Thanksgiving, but it was one of those two main major holiday.

And I want to believe it was Christmas. And I called, put me on speaker. They were like, who was this? When I told him who I was, they said, man, don't about live here by that name. We don't know you. And hung the phone up on me. I called back. I said, uh, what's good?

You know? Oh, uh, you know, they told me some kind of bullshit. You know what I'm saying? I was like, all right, whatever. But, you know, I was like, okay. All right, well, look, I got something to do. One thing about prison, I come up with anything, and I get off the phone because I'm in prison. I ain't probably be on the phone anyway.

Look, guard coming. Look, let me get off the phone real quick. And that's what I did. Because I, okay, that's what we are. So I disting myself. Even right now, today, I disting myself from now just because of that. don't know me. Y'all know who I am. Y'all don't know me by that. All right, cool. Were they good to you before you went to prison?

Huh? Were they good to you? Was it a good family? Oh, yeah. Most definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to lie. The parents, the siblings at that time, yeah, I can't say no bad about them. It's just the people around them, you know, the outside of the family, not the media family, but the cousins, the honest. aunties, you know, those people. And I just say, you know what? I'm just going to stay away. I don't want no parts of it.

Did they know you were involved in gangs when they adopted you? They had an idea, but I ain't never showcased it. Never. It's just the times I post being in school, I'd be over there with the Piru is at. Over around Lutus Park, Campanella, Fruit Town. I'll be over there where the blood is at. I ain't hanged with the Crips. Never.

So what happens in Mississippi? What do you mean? How do you end up in prison? So I'm with some friends. I was on the Navy base, right? And my girl at the time, she was a judge, advocate general. She said it was around in the evening time on a Friday. of September, 1999.

She was like, if you leave, she said, I would, you go into prison. I never see you again. I was like, man, you tripping. I said, I've been with you, man, every day of the week, right? So I was like, these are my friends right here. These are the only people I will hang out with. I won't hang out with no one else. And she was like, if you hang out with them, I'll never see you again.

going to prison for the rest of your life. It's like, he's tripping. I, you know, maybe that's a, I don't understand the dynamics of a woman's intuition. I didn't understand that part right there. So, in the chief of police, his son is vice lord. He was with me. Right?

So you had another guy that was proclaiming to be a vice lord, but wasn't officially a vice lord. He was just only going, you know, because of us, you know. And anyone that know me would know at that particular time in my life, you know, I was repping for the vice lord's, like, hard. Like, not per se the vice lords, but you knew I was affiliated with something because I would always rep a red bandana no matter what. I don't care where we go. You know, they're a red bandana gang or nothing.

You know what I'm saying? So we go over this girl house. I knew her. She was a stripper, right? But the guy that wanted to be a vice lord, right? He was in a relationship with her. So we go over there one day. her baby daddy, her alleged husband, come over there.

He knew me. He knew who I was. He knew what I rep because his friends and his brothers were gangsta disciples, which is a rival to us. And, you know, I spoke to him. I was like, man, what's up? You know what I'm saying? So he leave.

He left. The other guys, next time I know he's going to. get his friends. They were all gangster disciples because of the area. I go to the car, because at this particular time I was smoking, I don't smoke no more now. You know what I'm saying? I stopped like way back in like 2002 when I stopped smoking cigarettes. And I go to the car because I just bought a brand new pack of Newports, right? So I go to the car, go get the new ports. Some guys come around the corner, they're not knowing who I am, right? Because everybody in Meridian at this particular time knew I was vice lord.

Vice Lord carried a heavy stamp. You hear what I'm saying? We weren't bloods. We were vice lords. You know what I'm saying? And they were very familiar with who I am because I carried it. You know what I'm saying? I don't care you, Crip, gangster disciple, whatever.

You know what I'm saying? Like, man, I'm vice lord. or, you know, go to the club. I'm the one who kick it off. Fights or whatever. What no shootings, nothing like that, you know, it was fights. And so I go to the car and go get my cigarettes because, you know, we drinking some old English 800s, you know,

because it's a Cali thing. You know, we drink in 40s. I go to the car, I go grab my cigarettes. And next thing you know, by the time I grab my cigarettes, I'm getting snatched out the car, literally from the driver's side, and they started whooping me. Two guys. I don't know who the hell they were, but it threw me off.

It surprised me. They started whooping me, boom, boom, boom. You know, I did what I could do, right? But because it was an element of surprise, there was nothing I can do. So my head was basically under the driver side car under. I'm on the ground. My head is literally under the car. And they stomping me, kicking me, this and that.

Because I won't even expecting that. You know, I promise you, I won't even expecting, you know, anything like that. And next time I know, Somebody ran in the house. They get stabbed. Right. And they leave. They go around the corner.

Like literally to the next neighbor's house. They die right there. Right. Paramedics come. Police come. Man, it was a whole, it was a shit show. Right. I'm not even in the equation.

I'm not But it was a guy named Josh Right I say his name It was a guy named Josh That looked like me The only difference is his eye colors Right

But you had eyewitnesses from across the street saying it wasn't me It was him And it was the girl They said the eyewitnesses made statement Saying that the girl went in the house stabbed The husband

then the kids made a statement saying that it was Josh right even by me doing time later on people that I knew that was from Meridian even said that man that wasn't you kids made statements in my discovery it was the eyewitnesses that made statements saying that it was not a witness's not Not me. Because the Texas was saying, well, did you see Diaz, blah, blah, they said, no, uh-uh, it wasn't him. It was this person. Are you sure?

Yeah, I'm positive. I'm looking at him. Or I'm looking at her. I saw her when she ran up in there and stabbed him. But then even when I was trying to do an affidavit testimony to try to get back in court and got into contact with the eyewitnesses, they didn't want no parts of it. They said, man, we're trying to stay away from that for whatever reasons. I was like, what you mean?

Like, man, my life is on the line. Like, hey, I'm sorry. Like, real talk, they told me that I talked to them personally. They told me, man, sorry, can't do it. So I even had a federal prosecutor that was a judge and used to be a federal prosecutor, came to see me and they read my case and they were like, there's no way I would have convicted you if you came through my court system. There's no way.

I would convicted you. No way. No way. There's no way. And prior to that, the chief of police, I talked to him and I was like, man, look, man, this and now. You know, I explained to him what happened. You know, I told him the full scoop. or what happened.

And he was going to do everything he can to get me out of jail, right? A week or two later, that's when he stepped down and he resigned from the chief police. And it was some gunhole. And I don't know if it was around election time, but now I can't really remember. But for some reason, he stepped down, somebody stepped up. And my case wasn't a high-profile case. And the head prosecutor, the DA took my case. The head DA took it.

For whatever reasons, I don't know. And it was like, you might have had one black person on the jury panel. One. One. And he was the one that sold me out. My fingerprints weren't on the weapon. It was a knife. My fingerprints weren't on it.

They couldn't tie me to it. You had witnesses saying it wasn't me. All that. So why did the cops charge you to begin with then? When they're investigating that night, they respond to the scene. Do they charge the other guys? Nope. I was the only one they charged.

But you're the one that's beat up on the side. So do they find you at the car beat up when they come? No. Did you run from the scene? No. We was all together. So you were staying at the scene? No.

So the chief police son. The guy, Josh, and me, and there was another guy named Alan that was with me, we all leave. We're going towards the military base, towards the Navy base, and they detained us because there was a description of the car. Right. But for some reasons unknown to me, I was the only one that was detained. Now, you knew they hit the house or you had no idea? Nah, well, you're talking about the police? No, you.

Did you know that the kid Josh and his girl stabbed someone? I knew somebody got stabbed. I don't know who did it, right? Because I wasn't in the house. I was outside. I was getting jumped on. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

You left that. Yeah, but we all left together. Right? So I don't have no prior knowledge. But later on, I was finding out that, it was either Josh or the girl that did it. I don't know exactly for show who did it. But later on, as I was doing my time,

it was people that was getting locked up the prior years and they were telling me, man, look, you know, the kids saying, man, it was the mother. But because there's no fingerprints on a weapon because it was thrown in the sink, it was wrenched off. But all the fingers were pointed, even the eyewitnesses, statement saying that it was the girl that did it.

So why didn't you say that they did it? I didn't know. I know it wasn't me. I don't know who did it because I went in the house at that time. I'm outside getting jumped on. You know, and I'm like, man, what's going on? The only thing I heard, man, we don't want to talk about it. All right.

So what happened to him? Did he ever get arrested? I was the one who got arrested. No, but later on. No. And he never went to prison. No. It was just you that night.

I did 22 years. So they charged you with manslaughter first or was it murder first? Well, they try to, because they don't understand the circumstances at first, but because you got to understand the difference between murder and manslaughter. Manslaughter is in the heat of passion, right? It could be just a simple domestic dispute between woman and man, right? And it can turn into a manslaughter. during the heat of passion.

So, and that's what, at first they were trying to charge me with murder. I was like, murder. And they were trying to give me anywhere between 35 out of life. And I'm like, how? Right. So prior to that, I didn't know anything about the witnesses or anything like that. I didn't know anything about that until later on when I saw my discovery, right? But at the same time, I had a court-appointed attorney.

I didn't have the money at the time to even provide a lawyer, right? So I had to deal with, they had to offer me. And the only thing a court-appointed attorney had to offer was what? A guilty plea. Cop out. That's the only thing they know. Cop out. Nah, we ain't going to get you off.

All thing is to find you guilty, regardless of what. He said, look, we're going to get you 22. And I took her to trial. I took it to trial. There's nowhere I could have copped out to something I didn't do. What was the plea deal for? And it's crazy because they tried to come to me with like 10 years mandatory, right? 10 years mandatory plus five years probation.

That's like what? Nah, can't do that. I'm not for the man cop out. man, I know I ain't do this shit. Like, fuck it, y'all just gonna give me life. I don't care. We're gonna just ride it out. And the head D-A.

Bill Bow Mitchell. So you also got to understand the history of Meridian, Mississippi. Meridian Mississippi is also Ku Klux Klan territory. They also played a part, man, and the three civil rights workers. History, if you know the history

of the three civil rights workers that got murdered, back in the 60s, you know, the sheriffs, you know, that whole little area played a part in it, you know, of the murder of those three civil white workers, you know, so anyone that know anything about Meridian or that particular area would know that that's, that's clan territory. It is active. So, you know. No, there were no cops that, you know, wanted to do the right thing and investigate. this thoroughly? I had the

cheaper police. I had a son with me. His son was with me prior to that. Do you think that played a part in it? Yeah. Because that's why I kind of figured it was like around election time. Because when he was like, he was going to, first I spoke to his wife. I used to go

over their house a lot because I used to hang with their son. They son is vice lord. He was conservative vice lord. And we had a real strong bond. And he talked to his dad. I talked to his mom about it. That's what made the dad get involved

because I spoke to hurt prior to that happening. And next thing, no, I ain't heard. They wouldn't accept my calls no more. We wouldn't hear nothing from them. Didn't hear nothing from none of them. And it's like I was the fall guy. You know, the guy that got killed, He just got out of jail for domestic violence.

You know, he already had a rap sheet already for domestic violence. You know, and one of my friends prior to that was dating the girl, his wife, why he was locked up. And when I saw him that day, he came over there, he wanted to see if he was over there. And he was. Because we all over there together. He was in the room with her. He goes back there. You know what I'm saying?

Because he spoke to me coming in the house. He said, what's so, D? I like, what's so, bro? I'm like, oh, shit. I just realized what was going on. You know what I'm saying? Because my boy back there in the back, but to my knowledge,

they split up. You know what I'm saying? Not legally, by paper wise, you know what I'm saying? But they're living in different locations. You know what I'm saying? He just walked in the house. You know what I'm saying?

know. And next time I know, I think it was like, what, 30 minutes later, I go outside, get some cigarettes, I get jumped on, you know. So now the jury only convicted you based off of witness testimony based on what they saw? No, police testimony. And they're saying, but how did the police connect you to it? They said I was there. They were trying to use my gang affiliation. They were trying to use everything they could against me. They couldn't use the chief of police son. It's chief of police.

You know what I'm saying? And then the other guy, because his parents did at least 20, 30 years in the military, you know, he ain't going to use them. The only one they could use was me. I was the fall guy. Like, even till this day, like, I still don't understand it. So how does it feel to, you know, lose a trial then when you know you didn't do it? I mean, it is what it is.

You know, at the end of the day, you know, I always believe, man, God is the best of planners. You know, maybe it was, I don't know. Like, I seriously don't know. Even now, to this day, I don't understand the concept of it, the process of it. I'm just like, you know, I can't say what I want to say, you know what I'm saying? So I just be like, man, all right, whatever, you know. Where did they send you once you're convicted? To the state penitentiary.

In Mississippi. Yeah. I went to Parchman. One of the worst, I want to say one of the top five worst state penitentiaries in the country. besides like Alabama, Georgia, maybe Texas, you know, to some extent it probably runs neck and neck with Texas. In Louisiana, like Angola, living conditions, you know, Rock Nation came out, you know, came and saw the prison, JZ. I know one month, man, we had over, man, 21 murders and one month, gang-related.

They tried to say it was medical issues, but they line. Everything ain't medical issues. Then that means y'all fell on your part if it's a medical issue. It's making y'all look bad, you know, but they didn't want to make it seem like it was a, that they didn't have control over the gangs, you know, And they didn't. Gangs ran that prison.

What are the conditions like in there? Crazy. Man, you had Unit 32. Oh, man. Like, rats. It's always hot. Sewage. Like, whenever you flush the toilets,

somebody's stuff from a whole other toilet will come over there to yours. It's never clean. It's hot. Don't know and work. It's condemned. Like, literally, this ain't nothing I'm making up. This is something, man, you can see for yourself. Google it, Unit 32, Parts from Mississippi.

Are you in cells or is it in dorms? Cells. One man sells. And you don't even have a steel rack where your bed would be on. It's a slab of concrete. And your mat is like that thick. And are you in the cell all day or how does it work? Well, it's like it's it's it's it's a segregation housing unit for like a high risk inmates, right?

And it's 23 hours. But what the guards would say is that due to the shortages of staff, right? we can't go on a yard today. So this say, and then there's no yard on the weekends, Saturdays or Sundays. So you banking on the Monday through Friday. So give a take on some days,

you might go out for one hour, twice out of a week, Monday through Friday. You might get, you might go out twice, might. might and they'll quick to say oh because they don't feel like that today they'll say they short a staff so you can't go on the yard today and who are the gangs in there uh vice lords

land kings bloods crips abys uh peckerwoods uh black gangsters disciples uh gangsters disciples uh Gangs of Disciples, black disciples. Anyone who rock the folk nation, people nation, they in there. Black Pea Stones, like every gang you can practically think of, they in there. Who's the biggest one? Gangster disciples. Yeah, gangster disciples. So what it is is that they gangster disciples, but because it's the folk nation,

you got crypts that were ride upon the people. Folk Nation under a six-point star. So there's times you don't even know if they gangsters or if they crips because they write up on the umbrella of the folk nation. Then you got Summit City Royals, which is a white gang from Chicago based. They ride up on the folk nation

and they rival gangst of disciples. The People Nation, the Five Point Star, you might have the bloods, you might have the land kings, Vice Lords, Black Peacstones, Four Corner Hustlers. That's it. At one point, we even had the Aryan Brotherhood rocking with the People Nation because there wasn't the majority. And they were being mistreated.

And it was some kind of gang riff going on. and the leader of the vice-lords helped the leader of the Aryan Brotherhood. It was a situation that went on that kind of brought that collaboration. So whenever there was an issue with the A-Bs, vice-lords were aiding and sis-them. It was like the dynamics of it is different from California and Texas. Would that happen anywhere else? No, hell no.

Normally the Brotherhood and the Vice-Lords don't get along? No. Only because in some states like California, like San Quentin or maybe Texas, is race-related compared to Mississippi, is not because it's either white or black. It's either white or black. And if you're Hispanic, you'll fall up under the white race card. But as far as, gang-wise, the biggest white gang in Mississippi Department of Corrections is the Summit City Royals, which is a Chicago-based gang

that's associated and affiliated with the folk nation, gangster disciples. Is it mainly blacks in Mississippi? Yeah, most definitely. But there are white gangster disciples. Give a take. Not as many as the blacks. You might find maybe two, three, maybe, maybe.

Even vice lords. You might find maybe two of the blacks. three vice lords. That are white? Yeah. But it's always a discussion about that. It's always frowned upon. How do you feel about it?

Oh, I don't, I don't, because I won't accept it. Because even if you come to prison and you want to join a game, it's a no. And if I'm in the area, it has to go through me. because I high rank with the vice horse. So it has to go through me to whether or not if you can be recruited, there's always a no. Simply because if you hang with these people in prison, I mean on the streets,

why would you wait to come to prison to join? Why? Because you're scared. You want protection. You ain't going to say that. And that's mostly, you know, a lot of people when they join gangs in prison, right? When they in prison, it's because of protection.

You're not going to say that. You know, you're always going to say something totally different, but you ain't going to never say that because it will always make you look weaker in the eyes of others. But that's always the case, always. You're talking to somebody who did 22 years. I've been around every aspect, every walk of life. There ain't nothing I ain't heard before,

nothing I ain't seen before. You hear what I'm saying? So when you say you went to prison, you joined a gang, why? You want to be a part of some? Well, they're on the streets too. Why are you going to be a part of that on the streets? Because you're lying. You're scared.

You're looking for protection. You ain't going to say that. I don't never respect a person that come to prison to join the gang. Never. I always turned it down. Always. No, not on my watch. Not on my watch.

What do those people do then? How do they survive? Pay a fee. You're going to pay a protection fee. You're going to be a part of it, but you're going to pay a fee. And that's what I'm always going to offer. Because if not, then there's always extortional. I'm going to make sure, man, I'm going to make sure my people come.

If not my people, I'm going to use somebody else to come bring the game to you. But it's still coming back to us. How much is a protection fee? It varies. It depends. what you can pay because some people when you know

you might be only able to get $100 a month right I'm gonna get a majority of that but I'm gonna be fair let's say 50

get 50 just so you can keep 50 for yourself whatever you need hygiene your habits yeah so now will the other gangs

respect that you're protecting them or will they try to I mean you're always going to have pushback that's what makes it kind of adventurous. You know what I'm saying? You always want to push back because it keeps you on your toes.

You know, you're always going to have it. I don't care like what nobody say. You're always going to have somebody going to try you, try the system, try the structure, you know. Yeah. And you're fine with, say, risking your safety over 50 bucks? It ain't about the 50. It's the principal.

because you testing the gang that I believe in, you know, that I dedicated my life to. So I ain't about the 50. It's about this right here, you know, because if they feel like they can do it right here, then they can keep on doing it, you know, because at the end of the day, it's about the principle. You know, it's about the respect level.

Fuck him. We don't care about the 50. We just make it feasible for us, you know what I'm saying? Because the 50 don't come to me. So we got a thing which we call a poll box. So me, you, somebody else, we can go rob somebody, another gang member, right? But because you are the big, so this is why I used to do, I used to link up with some gangstic disciples that has some rank, right?

Now, I might even be out of pocket for saying this, you know what I'm saying? So, but because I was over the same. section or the two buildings, ain't nobody going to come question me. You know what I'm saying? So I get with these particular gangsters disciples, we'll go rob these A-Bs or whoever. Ain't none going to be said about it. But what I do is I get a percentage or whatever of my earnings and I give it to the People Nation box, the poll box.

It's like, I'm paying. them to make sure they don't get on my ass. You know what I'm saying? It's like hush money. So just say if my earnings is $100, right, I get them half for what I make. Ain't nothing going to be said. They're going to back me on everything,

whether I'm right or wrong. Now, with the extortion, if someone doesn't come to you asking for protection, then you'll go and try and extort them if they're independent. Yeah. So when I first got locked up, I didn't understand the politics of prison. So the first people I would extort was the guards.

Like literally, I went to a guard. I can't remember his name. So I used to go to him to bring me marijuana in. This before they start checking the food, the bottle waters make sure those particular bottle waters don't have liquor in it. When they shake it up, it don't fizz up. You know what I'm saying? All that type of stuff, right?

So when I used to tell him, man, bring me two blunts in, man. He's like, man, how am I do that? I said, so I used to coach him on how to do it. Just roll the blunts up, put in surround wrap, go to subway, get you a footlong sandwich. Now, understand, I got locked up in 99, right? They weren't checking the food back then. Roll the blunts up, put him in surround wrap, order a footlong sandwich. when you get to the house,

before you get the work, take all the guts out, the meat, tomatoes, lettuce, and then put the weed, the blunts in the sandwich, and then put the meat, lettuce, tomatoes, and all that back in your sandwich.

So if they look at the sandwich, they're going to just lift it up. They don't see none to come on in with it. He started bringing me the weed like that. Then I said, nah, put me an ounce in.

So when you compress an ounce, an ounce would look like almost a size. If you do it right, it will look like a size of a now later. Right. He'll bring me that same kind of strategy, put it in the sandwich. He said he can't do it no more. So what you mean? He can't do it no more. So I had an ice pick that was made out of a wire fence.

Right? So I break the fence down, sharpen it up. Now I got an ice pick. Ice pit. Had my shirt off. Got my ice pick on me. I got two of them. I said, what you mean? I said, well, don't come to work tomorrow then if you ain't got it. He tried to go to a rival gang, some Simon City Royals. It was his guy named Dirty. He didn't know I was real cool with him. Come in him, he used to go on a little robbery sprees together in the building, right? So the way we used to do our robberies, so they have combination locks. All I need,

is a soda can cut it out a small little strip put it wedged in the lock with a lock pops out of it put it inside the lock and I can pop the lock get everything out of your locker box

lock it back up you'll never know right that's what we used to do but I used to tell him get me a can right whatever we get we'll split together right that was the way we used to do hit people when nobody even know you know what I'm saying so then we'll like still they uh they box fans they floor fans right and they'll put use a marker

put their name on it and department of correction number I get ashes from cigarettes put it on there smear it it'll come off ashes from a cigarette can smear permanent markers, sharpies off anything. A lot of people don't know that. Those are trades. Those are skills. Like literally. So we'll sand it off.

I get the ashes, put it on there, smear it. And I go over, they, DOC number and put mine on it. Wherever their name was, I put my name on it. They go up there to the captain, shift commander to tell them, oh, I think such and such, such, got it. So what I do is I just sit there. They'll come on the zone. They're trying to charred me with extortion, racketeering.

I just laugh at that. I said, this is my shit. My name on here. My DOC number on here. Look at it. Oh, we're going to catch you. We're going to catch you. It was a captain name.

Captain Scott. Never forget him. Black guy. His job, when he come to where he used to tell me, my job is to catch you. My job is to make you. sure I charge you with extortion and racketeering. I said, okay.

I said, you never catch me. Oh, I'm going to catch you. You're going to slip. I said, never. Never. You know what I'm saying? And nobody on the zone will ever tell on me. Never.

So yeah, no one would snitch that you were breaking into lockers or anything? Because then nobody know. The only one that knew was the one that was with me. You ain't going to tell on me. It's sweet. Can't nobody know. Won't nobody find out. eating and I'm eating.

If the wing is empty when you're hitting them? Yeah, because when they go to lunch or dinner, especially like when they have chicken, because they got chicken on Thursdays and Sundays, everybody go back for chicken. I don't throughout the whole entire country in the U.S. penal system, everybody goes back for a chicken, bro. Because somebody always owe somebody their chicken,

always selling it tobacco, whatever vices they go. got for chicken. Everybody goes. We don't go. I'm tied in with the kitchen workers. I got vice lawyers work in the kitchen. They're going to bring me chicken. And what I do with my chicken is, I'm going to buy that chicken and that chicken and that chicken. And we're going to make one big ass meal. Hey, where you had, dirty? Come here. Hey, look, I got about 10 pieces of chicken. How many noodles we need for your people, for your brothers? All right. Hey, how many news we're going to got in the poll box. All right. We're going to get them. Man, we're going to eat together. Man, y'all going to get somebody made to make this food up for us. That's how I was doing it.

Then I was going to certain people. I feel like we'll tell. We'll feed them. I was always like providing deodorant, soap, stamps, a way of communication. You know what I'm saying? For people to the outside, I would provide that. You can't tell on me. I'm making a way for you. I'm providing you with commissary. You know, ain't no, hey, oh, he owe me, sir? All right, don't worry about that. How much he owe you?

All right, I'm going to pay you, bro. Hey, look, check this out. Now, you owe me. You know what I'm saying? Because I understood the dynamics in the politics of prison life now. I'm a, I'm a, what you would, I ain't going to say an OG, but convict. I'm a convict now. There's a difference between being the inmate and the convict.

You know what I'm saying? Because I understand the ways of the system, how to manipulate the system. Now, I can put a hole in that wall right now and put all my contraband in. And you'll never find that unless I tell you where it's at. So now what happened to that guard that didn't bring the signal? Oh, so he tried to get with dirty. from the Simon City Royals, tried to get with him, and Dirty was a shot caller for them.

He was actually over the penitentiary for them. And he didn't understand that me and Dirty was in cahoots with each other. Dirty needed me just like I needed him. You know what I'm saying? He's like, man, he was you crazy. He tried to bring Dirty like four ounces, a weed. And Dirty was like, man, I can't do that, man. He's like, man, you'll kick a d'clock.

gang war off. He's like, man, we can't do that. So when Dirty came to me and told me, he's like, hey, the guard want me to run you off the zone, he'll give me four ounces. I said, I bet. I said, I want two of those ounces, though. I'll pack up right now. And I leave, you know what I'm saying?

Because I understand I can make at least $2,000 off them two ounces, right? But I already know I would have to give so much to the people. nation to the treasury. You know what I'm saying? I had to give so much, you know what I'm saying, just in order to make it work. But then when it was time for me to leave and pack up, they were like, nah, bro, you can't do that.

Nah. And somebody said that. Somebody said that. They're like, nah, you can't do that. Because, you know, we got rank. Got lieutenants, you got MOCs, you got minister of literature, you know what I'm saying. You got minister of the,

defense, you know what I'm saying? You know, the street organization from Chicago are ranked up, you know, and somebody that was ranked up. So I was ranked up, but I had a title. I wasn't officially carrying a rank, so to speak. I had a title. You know what I'm saying? So my thing was, I was governing a compound, right? But I actually have, the highest title I might have was like miniature literature or lieutenant status or chief enforcer. You know what I'm saying? I ain't actually carry elite status. You know what I'm saying?

Or chief elite. I didn't carry that type of rank, but I had rank enough to what I had to say so. So when somebody that was higher up in a rank position was like, hey, man, you can't do that. And this guy was like a universal elite, like a three-star elite. They said, man, you can't do that.

I was like, what you mean? Why not? What's up? He said, nah, you can't do that, bro. He said, you can't leave the section because I govern like two or three buildings. You can't leave the area and go somewhere else. Nah, hell, nah.

Nah, it don't work like that. I said, okay, all right. I said, but when I explained to him what was going on, because he was like a part of my inner. When I tried to explain to him what was going on and the reason he said, I don't care, bro. You can't do that. No. By in the morning, man, you'll have some guys that'll be over there where you were at and will

gun you down, stab you to death. I said, all right. I said, I'll stay where I'm at. So why didn't the guard just set you up or get you out of there? Scared. So really the inmates are running the prisons? Yes. Yes.

The gangs are running it. Like literally, yep. Because at the, you know, you also got to understand, this is Mississippi, right? In some locations, you have captains, sergeant, lieutenants. They have cousins, uncles that are housed there. There's no way of getting around it. They plugged in, some kind of shape, form and fashion. You have family members there.

Related. And they just become associated because of the gangs. Whatever gang, you're my cousin, you're a guard. I'm a vice lord. You're a vice lord now. Automatically, it becomes that. How do you get rank as a vice lord? Well, you know, some things, it's different ways.

It's different ways. I'm just going to say that. What was it like to grow up in prison? You know, you went to prison what when you were? 23. 23. So you spent the rest of your 20s, you know, all those holidays, birthdays. Well, after a while, you just look at any other holidays, just a regular day.

Just a regular day. That shit didn't mean nothing to me. Even right now, today, I don't celebrate that stuff. If it happens, it happens. You know, if I do celebrate it. It's just so I won't be kind of like stigmatized in a sense. And I don't want to be like still hanging on to always a prison life. Because we don't celebrate it.

Nobody in prison celebrates it. Nobody. That's strip away from you. You mentioned you had to do a lot of time in solitary. Why was that? I was labeled as a combative offender. It's in my prison jacket. I stab, staff, guards, inmates, it don't matter.

Yeah, I was like a high-risk inmate. So does that mean you go in the solitary for the rest of your bid? Prior to me being released, I was just considered as a, what's the name of it? Long-term segregation. You have short-term. might be six months maybe, but long term is the remainder of your sentence. So if you get labeled that 10 years in, you're doing 12 years in solitary? Yes.

How far in did you get labeled? So I already did like maybe give a take. Being in solitary when I first went in, it was like right at four years. And the only reason why I say that because I know I did three and they only let me out for maybe 12 hours. I just to make commissary for me to get some hygiene, toothpaste, soap, deodorant, and after those 12 hours, they snatch me right back up and lock me up again for a whole year. That's why I just said four years. But to do long term, they could have been put me on long term.

Segregation, which is the remainder of your sentence or whenever you get released, is because I was considered as a STG member and an STS member. And the difference is STG is being considered as security threat group. I was a part of a street organization, which is a group. And STS is being considered as a security threat status, where you yourself as an individual is a threat to the security and running of the institution. Why even put yourself through that? Why not just, you know, stay out of the way?

not involve yourself in that? What's the mindset behind that? Ain't no such thing. I ain't in there for going to church. I'm in there because, you know, wrongly convicted and it was always about survival. But regardless of my conviction,

regardless of what it is, I mean, that was a life anyways for me. I didn't care about that. I'm young. I ain't want to do no but gang bang. What were you doing to try approve your innocence? Well, because of a lack of money, you know, I did everything I thought I possibly can do. You know, I got in touch with innocent projects, judges, lawyers, you know,

pro bono. And I ain't heard nothing from none of them. There might have been maybe two federal judges that were federal prosecutors actually like they resigned actually came and and talked to me and I gave him a copy of my case prior before them actually come to visit me right as like a lawyer like them representing me they came to me like that and uh they were like we raised your case they were like man there's no way we would have convicted you you would have came through our courtroom we would have never convicted you just No way. No way. No way. No way. So when I explained to them what was going on, they were like, nah, uh-uh. Nah, something else is going on. So when I reached out to the eyewitnesses for affidavit statements to get me back in court for another hearing, they declined.

And I had cell phone. And I even reached out to one of them. One of them even relocated to like think Georgia. And they were like, man, nah, man, just, you know, too much is going on. You know, I was like, man, be straight up with me. Like, what? You know what I'm saying? It's not even a high profile case. Like, man, we was told not to speak on it, not to make no more statements. I said, but you're an eyewitness, though.

You know I ain't do this. You know what I'm saying? And they were like, yeah, but I said, so you rather see me, man, be locked up. for 22 years when you can help me. You're like, man, you know, my mama and this and that. I'm like, all, whatever. It's got to be something to do with the cop, son. And you know what's so crazy?

Like, he just accepted my friend request on Facebook. The son? Yeah. Like, I think three days ago. Just accepting my friend request. Asked me how I'm doing. Now, did you get an appeal aside from that affidavit thing? Yeah, like right after I got convicted, they did an appeal and they denied it.

And then you did the affidavit thing? I tried to. But in order for me to do that, they would have to willingly recant their statement. And they weren't willing to do that. Nope. Because she was saying she don't want to get her mother involved because she lived right next door or across the street. and those people still live there. You know, I was like, man, all right, whatever.

Do you feel like you got the sentence because of maybe like karma, not getting caught for something else you might have done in your childhood or in gang life? I always believe that God is best of planners. I always believe that. That was part of his plan, then that was the plan. Maybe it, because, you know, I can't see, man, tomorrow.

I can only see for right now. Maybe, yeah, maybe it was. Because if it wasn't for that, maybe I won't be right here talking to you right now today. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't have no ill will. I don't feel no type of way, no negative by anybody. You know what I'm saying? You know, I did what I did.

I did it. Because under the old law, 10 years is considered as a life sentence. You come up for parole in 10 years on a life sentence. You gave me 22-0. I did it. I'm here. So now, is there no good time or parole on a 22-year-cent? How does that work?

I didn't have that. They sentenced me as a mandatory sentence. Of 22? 22. So you have to do every single day of that 22 years. Every single day. 22 calendars. What about probation? Do you have that?

Yeah, I got that. How long is that for? I think June or July of next year. So that would have been. What year did you get out of prison? Two down in a prison. And how old were you? I was 46 when I got out.

I'm 51 now. You're 51? Yeah. You don't look 50. You do not look 51. Yeah. Wow. You look great.

Thank you. Thank you. So what was it like coming out of prison? Ooh. Huge transition, bro. Like, I literally broke down because I didn't know how to work a washing and dryer. I didn't know how to work it because everything is smart, smart this, smart that. You know, even coffee machines are smart now, you know what I'm saying?

I know how to work a cell phone. You know what I'm saying? But when it came to like household appliances, kind of broke down a little bit because reality, you know, and prison real, bro. Prison is real. It ain't, you know, when you do a length of time like that, you know, plays a part. What about relationships, dating? What's that like after 22 years in prison? You got some good questions.

I try. Hmm. I wish I could call my girl and just let her be the one to tell you, you know what I'm saying? Because it'll be not what I say. Because, of course, I probably would try to sugarcoat it. But somebody like her would, like, give it to you all. Like, it's overwhelming on both parts. Trying to understand on her part, trying to understand somebody that came from a control

environment. And here it is, you're trying to control me, making sure I want to cheat on you, make sure I won't do this, you know. So now that I'm in a free environment, you're trying to control me, make sure I want to cheat on you, what you think I'm going to do? Think I'm going to cheat on you? You've been with me since 2018 to right now, today. I'm not good.

I'm not a saint. I'm not an angel. Yeah. Even just, you know, sleeping next to someone after 22 years. Man, bro, look. Because we all know you can hook up with guards and that, but you can't fall asleep next to him for the night. Oh, no, uh-uh.

Um, I had my share. I had my share, but it's, it's, it's, so I was diagnosed with PTSD. You know, I've been shot in the back of the head. I've been stabbed, you know, so, you know, my whole relationship with people in general is rough. Like literally, bro, it's rough. Comes to a woman. So my biggest thing, like, and I know, just no telling man, who might see this right here?

You know what I'm saying? Who might see this interview or this podcast? But, you know, my biggest thing is being intimate. Because you got to understand, half of my life, man, was in prison. Was never intimate. Never. I've been around concrete and still my own entire life. I don't know how to feel.

So, and it's rough, but because it's like, it's not fair. It's not fair to her. But when you spend half of your life, you know, around killers, drug dealers, robbers, rapists, you know, every rejects of the walks of life, you know, it's like, how can you feel, right? And when you don't really have the type of affection that you should be getting from a woman after 22 years, it's like it makes you start feeling like if it's something wrong with you. Even right now, it's like that's what I go through, even right now,

because I don't know how to feel sometimes. And I think that's where, like, the problem comes, you know, with me and my woman. Like, she's been there for me since, like, 2018, up to now. And whatever reason she feels towards me, that might be negative. It's because of me. So, and I think that it's not fair. You know, like, I ain't asked for this. I ain't asked to go through all this or whatever.

So, and I try to, like, talk about it, but it hurts, you know. Like, even now, you know, because I didn't get that from a woman, even growing up, even goes back to my mother. You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't have that. So it do play a part. It's life, you know. How do you make peace with yourself?

I talk to God because, man, mental health is real. I try, man. That's my best friend right there. My coworker, everything I learned about my job is through him. But there's still things about me. No, he's just now finding out. You see what I'm saying? I get up two, three in the morning.

I go outside because I got a Frenchie, a French bulldog male, and he's like clockwork. Like on the days that I'm off, he'll go outside. Or even when I'm at work, I walk around the facility. You know, and I always like talk to God. Like, give me strength. Can it be days I'd be wanting to crash out and I can't because that's what I'm used to doing crashing out. You know, always coming from a prison perspective.

You know, it's hard trying to adapt to out here in society because everybody always doing some old fuckery or some old clown shit all the time. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't play the radio. You know what I'm saying? And I just talk to God, bro, you know, because I tell you, mental health is real. It's real. Because those demons, they be hearing me, bro. And I be one of a man, like, but I know I can't.

I can't too far. I got too much to lose. So I always try to find a better way out, you know, not in prison no more. You know what I'm saying? My girl always telling me she's like, I ain't trying to hurt you. You know, you don't have to be this way towards me. It ain't you. You know, but it's just like the one person I believed in in all my life is the person, man, like, they gave up on me.

You know, all I had was my mother. So when it comes to trust with people, you know, I look at everything. Because what they say is, a pair of lips can say anything, you know, to the untrained ear. I don't listen with my ears. I listen with my eyes. It ain't what you say is what you do in front of me. It ain't what you do in front of me is what you do behind my back. You know what I'm saying?

So, and that's what I go off of. You know, I expect you to say this and say that about me in front of me. Can you feel like I'm going to get on your ass if you say anything out of the, out of pocket? But what matters is what you say behind my back. Can you still, man, have that same energy and that good positiveness, you know what I'm saying, to say this about me, you know? So, and that's what I go off. How do you feel about gang life now?

I don't glamorize it, right? But I kind of understand the significance of it. I understand when people come from broken families or when they come from similar situations like me. Excuse me. When they come from similar situations like me and they join, I can understand why. But sometimes, you know, all you got to do is listen to them,

talk to them. they'll tell you could they be screaming for help they ain't going to say it but just listen to their conversation sometimes they break down or came from a broken family or you know the majority of the reason

because man to be accepted they're telling you what they're not getting at home acceptance they ain't getting the love that they should be but these guys right here are giving it to them might be a pretending

fake kind of love right until you put it in the work, but that's cool with them. That's all that matters. It's a pretending. It's the pretending part. A pretending kind of love.

A facade. I saw that matters because they ain't getting there nowhere else. They ain't getting there for family. So they're cool with that. They contend. They don't care. What's something you know now

that you wish you knew when you were a teenager? People. Understand the difference between authenticity and being fake because people will use your weaknesses to make it seem like they are for you and when actuality

they just want to make sure you do what they need you to do whether it's committing to crime what is doing this, whether it's crashing out you know. Where are you at today? Tell everyone what you have going on. Oh, well right now

I work out Blountains. Fine Foods in McKinney, Texas. Very good job, man. I love it. My job title is Environmental Health and Safety. So basically, making sure that the employees are following safety protocol, making sure they're in compliance of OSHA. Because of my friend right here, you know, I have my OSHA certification, you know, because of him. You know, he kind of teach me along the way you know, been giving me the game on OSHA because technically that's the game now because you can just know

to just have two years experience and have two, three, four years of OSHA certification and make six figures. Easy. Easy. And I do nothing. You know what I'm saying? But it's all about experience though. You know, but you got to want that. You know what I'm saying? It has to be in you, not on you. Because anybody can go and apply for it because those certifications are not cheap to my $6,700 for one, you know,

but you still got to have the experience to go with the certifications, though. You know, you got to get your foot in the door. And I was blessed to actually be able to have been given that, you know. So I wrote my book, came out June 3rd, Rose Cranes. It's inspired by true events. actually working on part two as we speak. I only wrote like 67 pages of it. But I also have other books in rotation.

So my next book, after Rosecrans, is called Solid, right? I actually have a part two written to it already, you know. So I want to kind of continue to keep the flow going. I have merchandise, have new era caps with Rosecrans. and they ain't cheap. I have shirts. I have a fragrance called September 13. That was actually the day I was released from prison, September 13, 2021.

So I don't know if I wanted to put the whole word, September 13 or just 913 or just do it, a Roman numeral numbers. You know what I'm saying? But I have a fragrance. You actually got the only bottle I got, but I have the notes. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, I want to keep it solid with you, you know what I'm saying? You know, so you're actually the only one to have is the only one.

You know, I'll probably get some more made, probably next week. That's really it, man, you know. I do have a, I came up with, it's an offshoot of my book. It's called Red Line. I wrote two seasons, 16 episodes of a TV series for Rosecrans. So it's like eight series, eight seasons apiece. That's awesome. Yeah.

So I have that, you know, like my boy told me, I got to shop it around. But I also have a, I think it's called a... an intermission letter where you shopping around with Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, those people actually had a letter drawn up. I just haven't sent it out yet, you know, because I didn't want to be over here, over there, over there. I kind of want to just focus on one thing out of time. And probably around December, I'd probably be having part two probably be in effect. That's awesome. of rose cranes yeah well deez i appreciate you coming on the show today this was a great

interview yeah hopefully it won't be the last yeah well i'm sure we'll see you again and uh i wish you the best with everything you have going on i appreciate you bro appreciate you all right