Locked In with Ian Bick - I Was Sentenced to Life as a Teen — I Spent 18 Years in Prison | Melissa Doran

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

Melissa Doran grew up as the daughter of a cop in a strict household, but a lack of love at home led her to start rebelling at a young age. After being sent to a teen program in Utah and losing her father at just 16 years old, her life spiraled even further when she became involved with an older gang member, ultimately leading to a violent police shootout. In this episode of Locked In with Ian Bick, Melissa shares how those choices led to a 7-to-life sentence in the California prison system and what it was really like serving 18 years behind bars. She opens up about the reality of prison life, the mindset it takes to survive, and how she’s working to rebuild her life after incarceration. _____________________________________________ #ianbick #lockedinpodcast #prisonstory #lifesentence #teenlifer #womeninprison #truecrime #californiaprison _____________________________________________ Thank you to FACTOR for sponsoring this episode: Head to https://factormeals.com/lockedin50off and use code lockedin50off to get 50% off your first Factor box PLUS free breakfast for 1 year. Offer only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy with Factor. _____________________________________________ Connect with Melissa Doran: TikTok: @inmate92202_mellymel Instagram: @inmate92202_mellymel _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Police Chase, Shootout & Arrest 00:56 Strict Upbringing & Family Life 02:24 Inside a Troubled Teen Program 03:44 Father’s Suicide & Everything Changes 05:14 Trauma, Loss & Family Breakdown 07:07 Life After Loss & Struggling to Cope 08:41 Falling in With the Wrong Crowd 13:46 Relationship With a Gang Member 16:06 The Plan That Led to Everything 18:22 Robbery Gone Wrong 22:15 High-Speed Chase & Shootout With Police 26:18 Hospital, Charges & Media Attention 33:09 Trial, Charges & Facing Sentencing 39:25 County Jail Experience Before Prison 44:47 Lost Dreams & Impact on Family 47:22 Sentenced & Transferred to Prison 50:33 First Days Inside Prison 54:22 Learning How to Survive in Prison 01:00:31 Daily Life & Adjusting to Prison 01:05:47 Grief, Loss & Mental Struggles Inside 01:10:29 Turning Point & Life-Changing Decisions 01:13:15 Best & Worst Moments in Prison 01:20:31 Law Changes & Chance at Release 01:27:42 Life After Prison & Starting Over 01:34:07 Lessons Learned & Moving Forward Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So I'm driving on the freeway. Couldn't have been more than a few seconds on the freeway. He turns and starts firing that 38 next to my head out the back window towards the cops. I got out of the car and I remember standing there. And he was screaming, get in the car, they're going to kill you. Melissa Duran was just 17 years old and the daughter of a cop when her life spiraled into a police shootout that led to a seven-to-life sentence in the California prison system. In this episode, she breaks down her strict upbringing, being sent to a troubled teen program in Utah, losing her father at 16, getting involved with an older gang member, and what really happened the night everything changed.

She also shares what it was like serving 18 years behind bars, how she survived prison, and how she's rebuilding her life today. So I grew up in Orange County in Southern California. Just my dad who, so my dad was a police officer. He got injured in line of duty and was retired. And then he started his own security company. But he committed suicide when I was 16. And that kind of was the catalyst of what drove me to meet, like, my co-defendant and the people that I was around. So that was like the starting point, I guess.

Before that, what was your upbringing like? My mom was not the greatest. She's kind of, it's about her. She's, I guess a narcissist would be the word that everyone uses. And then I had a little brother who was my whole, like my whole, he was my ride or die. We were six years apart, but he was just my best friend and we did everything together. And so, but my parents favored him. Like, he was the favorite child.

And even, like, anybody who knew my family would say that, like, oh, yeah, Trevor, Trevor. And so that was really kind of hard. there was always that buffer of me trying to be better or something that I wasn't to get their attention. So that was hard for me because I didn't have someone who like taught me or spent the time to like teach me like girl things. Like how to curl your hair. I mean just the things that a mother teaches their daughter. That wasn't something that was there for me. So it kind of had this just distance, no real connection.

Was your father strict because it was a cop? Oh, so bad. Like the lights, literally the street lights come on, my butt better been in that door. And I got lucky enough that growing up, he lived across straight from our elementary school. And so one of my friends in element, her mom, who was an amazing human and my dad were really good friends. So she'd be like, Frank, Melissa is here. She is fine. I will walk her home.

They literally lived one street over. Like, it wasn't far. So my dad in that sense would give me like a leeway. But other than that, he was so. strict. It was just, thank you, I had to hold his hand if we were in a grocery store. It was just that over, I mean, I can only imagine the things that he saw. And this was pre-cell phones. So that lived in his head. And I can only imagine. And he served in the military. So all of that combined was just rough. Do you think that had a negative impact on you in the sense that when he

passed, it unleashed this door of freedom for you? Yes and no. I think a lot of it too was that I was I was kind of angry with him. So my mom, who didn't really want me around, sent me to one of those schools for troubled children in Utah. And I was kidnapped in the middle of night. They come to your house in the middle of night and they, two grown men, wake you up, put you in handcuffs and drag you out of your home. Like they tell your parents, don't talk to your child, just don't say anything. thing. So here I am as like a 13, 14 year old getting dragged out of my house by two men and no clue what is happening. They put you on a plane. They fly you to Utah. They take away like your

shoes. I mean, it was like pre-prison, I guess, for me. Like definitely one of those things. They monitor what you eat. I don't eat eggs. They're just disgusting. They would force me to eat eggs. And I was always in trouble because I just wouldn't do it. Like I'm not. It's gross. because I'm not doing it. And so in that, when I was there, one of the counselors, like, you need to tell your dad he's a bad person and he's this and he's that. And you're in as a young girl or even young guy, you're influenced by adults. It's just how it is. And so I wrote my dad this letter of like, I hate you. I don't want you to be my dad anymore. You're too strict. You're too mean to me. And then like two weeks later, my dad committed suicide. And that was the last thing

that I ever said to him. So for me, that was like the big turning point, but just the guilt and the sadness that I felt inside. Now, this was the WASP program. Yes. Yes. I just interviewed an individual that that's what his story was. Yep.

Wow. Did you watch the documentary that was done on that too? It was so hard to watch. Yeah. It brought back things I completely had, I guess, blocked out or just tried to forget about. But yeah, I spent a lot of time there. How much time did you do there total? So the first time I think she sent me, I think I was 12, got back a year later, and then she sent what couldn't have been home more than six, seven months.

And my mom just sent me right back. Oh, you could go back multiple times. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's not a one and done. They will take your money at any point that you, want. They will take your money. And how did your dad feel about you going there? The first time I think my mom convinced him that this was going to be good and all of those things, the second time, he did not want me there. And I didn't know that then. I didn't know that. So when the counselor's telling me that he's not participating in like the family counseling sessions and things like that, I didn't understand what was really happening. And so, of course, I just followed along. It was like, I hate you. I don't want you to be my dad.

I was just a young girl trying to process the whole situation. Now, was it normally the M.O. of the school to pit you against the parents? I thought it was normally, you know, for you to take responsibility and not. It's kind of both. They really do manipulate the situation because they go with the parent that's paying. It's all about the money. It has nothing to do with helping the child or the parent. It's all about how much they're getting from you.

And so because my mom was paying for the second go around there. Of course they were taking whatever she said and doing. Now when you're in that school the second time, are you thinking to yourself? I never want to be put in a position like this again. Yes. I think it made me more of like I don't need anybody type of mentality. Like I decided at a young age that I didn't need. I didn't really have a family.

I thought I just had my mom, my dad, and my brother. And so I was like, I don't need anybody. And I just became really independent to the point that I would teach myself whatever I needed. What about in regards to getting in trouble? Do you think it made you want to stay away from trouble or find trouble? I think it made me find trouble. It really pushed me in that direction because I was already, I felt like I was already in trouble for stuff that I didn't, wasn't necessarily my fault in a sense. And not that I didn't do

bad things, but I didn't know any better. No one took the time to tell me, oh, there's a better way to do this or, you know, things like that. I struggled in school, especially with math. And because my mom, she's so good at math, she couldn't understand why I couldn't get it. And instead of trying to help me, it was punishment. And so that, I think, just, brought in this anger of I don't want a part of it. Do you talk to any of the kids from back then? Yes. Wow.

Yes. How have their lives been affected? So some have had struggled with addiction issues. I was the only, I mean, everyone, not everyone, but some did do time things. I was the only one who really did major time. But they struggled with addiction issues or even not. Some of them didn't even ever speak to their parents again. because you don't realize when you're there, like, or parents, I guess, don't know how bad it is there.

I mean, I spent half my time in an isolation room, you know, with a by myself, with carpet on the walls and the ceiling, staring at nothing. Because I was always in trouble because I wouldn't eat the dang eggs. That was their big thing. You had to, because girls had bulimia or whatever. So what do you think was worse? prison later on or that school? That school. Wow. Yeah. And you serve time in one of the most notorious prisons in the country, systems. Yeah. That's so much easier to navigate than that school. Do you think it's because

they apply more like physical and mental torture in the school? Yes. Yes, definitely. Because prison, you can, you know, there's outlets in some sense. You can have a TV or a radio or, you know, things to that nature, you know, have a conversation with other people in there. You weren't even allowed to talk to another person if they didn't allow it. They weren't allowed to share your last name because they didn't want you to forge connections. It's so crazy to think about it now. Like, how do you tell children not to build bonds or friendships, but that's what they taught? If you didn't direct anger towards your dad and instead went to him for help,

Do you think he would have tried to save you from there? Yes, absolutely. He definitely would have. I know that he was trying in the court system to get me back when my mom just had so much more money than he did. And, of course, for my situation, I know that money changes, you know, the laws to your benefit. So now you send your dad that letter and then he passes a couple weeks later. Two weeks later. Tell us about that news and how you were.

reacted to that? I will never forget it. I was upstairs and they told me Garth, which was my counselor at the time, wanted to talk to me. And I was like, I kept thinking in my head, like, what have I done anything? Like, what did I do this time? It's really what I was thinking. And I walked into his office and told me to sit down very unemotionally. He was like, your dad killed himself, blew his brains out. You're going home tomorrow on a plane. Just dry, cold. And then they walked me out of his office to, like, what they call a visiting room where it's like a couch in two chairs and then put me in there by myself. And then they were the only kind thing they did is they went down to, like, my group and got two of the girls and asked them to come sit with me. Just emotional.

Like they just, here you go. Your dad, dad killed himself. Just sit here. Did you feel guilty? For years. For so many years. It took a very long time for me to, you know that mentally that it wasn't. I know that mentally it wasn't my fault, but emotionally you don't, I did not feel that way.

I felt like it was my fault. If I hadn't have said those things to him, you wouldn't. Like I felt like I kicked him over the edge. How did your mom feel about his passing? I have no idea because she is so emotionally checked out. She doesn't talk about anything that's necessarily a real, like. it's not solely about her, then there's no talking about it or unless it was my brother. But she agreed to get you released because of that?

So I got not released. I went home for a funeral. Like a furlough? Yeah, like a furlough. I went home on a furlough. And when I was home, this was the crazy part. When I was home, she hadn't told my brother yet. I was made to tell my little brother, who him, my dad, were best, best.

I was made to tell him because she didn't want to do it. And that broke something inside of me. And it was then we were at the funeral and things like that. And I just, my brother begged her to not send me back. And I think that was the only reason she let me stay. Oh, so she decides not to send you back? She decided. Looking back on it now, do you wish you went back?

I don't know. Because either way, I think my path. would have ended up in prison. I was too full of anchor and didn't have, like some, I didn't really have direction. I mean, I was good in school, but I never, I just was looked over at home so much that that really impacted me. And I was so angry by that. And then dad dying just really lit that fire of anger on the inside.

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And honestly, I just was like, screw you and decided I was going to do whatever I wanted, which meant like ditching school and hanging out with people that were way older than me. So then they had like a pool hall or like a billiards place that served alcohol. But on certain nights, they didn't for the high school kids. So we could come. And that's how I met my co-defendant who was 35 and I was 16, 17. He was 35? He was 35. And was this, say, like, a physical attraction or were you guys friends?

We were kind of just friends, really. And what I didn't know at the time, I mean, he had just gotten, he was six weeks out of Pelican Bay. Like, this wasn't just some guy. Like, this was a very high shot caller in a gang. Like, this wasn't just any guy. This was, like, one of the top guys. And I thought we were just friends.

and I didn't want to be at my house with my mom because that wasn't, I wasn't, I was just overlooked and I just wanted someone to notice me, I guess, in a sense. So maybe I was seeking out like a father figure, but then of course it turned into a relationship that obviously was not good. Now wouldn't have been against his rules, especially in his gang, to be with a minor? It definitely was. And there was a lot of guys who were. were not happy. And it got worse for him as like we got arrested and things, obviously, we went to prison. And he got in a lot of problems for that.

So you knew as soon as you met him that he was a ex-con or? No, no clue. Had no clue at first. Just, I mean, even though he had tattoos on his face and he was obviously, like, there was obvious signs. but I just kind of didn't register that. I mean, I was still a kid. You know, like you think you're grown at 17. You're still 17.

So that wasn't in my mind yet. Now, did you genuinely develop feelings for him? Or did he? I think so. I think I genuinely developed feelings. But I think it was more so that I felt like someone saw me and cared about me. And that's what really brought. me more into like doing what he ever he said.

Did your mom know about this relationship? Yes. And how'd she react to it? Just I'm dumb. I'm this. I'm not. But also she wouldn't let me live at her house. So I was living couch to couch between my grandmothers, my aunt and my mom.

Like she didn't want me in her home because I was a bad influence and she didn't want her house messed up or her stuff gone. But really, I was a problem because she was in a new relationship with somebody. And that, her having to deal with me caused conflict between them. And that's where it really for her, she just didn't want me there. So it wasn't what you were hoping for by getting involved in this relationship. Right. And so it backfired in a way. A big way. So tell us what happens when you're 17 with him. So 17, he's 35 and we're in this like relationship. So ironically, his dad, he was living with his dad because he was fresh out of Helican Bay.

And his dad didn't live far for my mom in the city we grew up in. So there are a few neighborhoods over, I guess. And so we're staying there. And he one day, he's like, we're going to go visit my brother up north. And I'm like, okay. No, no thoughts. No, like, questioning it. Then he had two kids, little kids.

They were, I think it's time three and five maybe. And so they would stay a couple nights there with us. And I love kids. So to me, I was super excited. And I'll never forget this. His son woke up. We all slept on the couch, like did movie night and stuff. And his son woke up screaming.

And we were like, what's wrong, what's wrong? And he had a nightmare. And he said, I'm never going to see you again. I'm like, yes you are, you'll see me. Like next week. He was right. We went to prison in that next week. It was crazy to think about now, like, that this little kid had that intuition, I guess, or whatever.

You want to call it that that was going to happen. Do you think he overheard something or? I have no idea because to me, looking back, like, I didn't know he wanted to go. rob his attorney's house. I had no clue. He woke up one morning and said, we're going to go, go do this, drive me here. Okay. I didn't even know what was happening until we got there. I stayed in the car. He went in the house, took, basically robbed them, took a bunch of stuff, random things like jewelry and clothes, just very weird stuff because he blamed the attorney that in his last

case who was a family friend for why he went back to Pelican Bay. So I think for him it was a revenge thing. And then I guess there was guns there. And then there was, I don't know how he got the other set of guns, but there was guns, a few, like a rifle, a shotgun, I think, and a 38, a revolver. And so he, after that, we drove to the house and he wanted to sell the stuff that he got in. So he calls this guy, his friend from kindergarten, who turned out, we did not know at the time, turned out was on probation and going to a trial. So he took that knowledge and said, oh, YD and Melissa, they have all these things, and they're trying to sell them. And so they sent in an undercover cop into the house as this dummy was selling.

trying to sell them. So he was doing a deal with an undercover officer. And it was crazy because I was all before cell phones. This was like all, you know, page me when you guys get here type of stuff. And I remember thinking like, something's wrong with this guy. He's not, there was just this weird feeling. And I remember telling him, like, I don't think this guy is okay. And he didn't believe me, of course. And he was like, no, we're going to do this. And I'm like, okay, sure, whatever you say, pack up the car. Well, he did drugs. I didn't.

That wasn't something I ever got into. Thank God. And so he got high and couldn't drive. So he's like, you have to drive. Okay, so he gives me directions. We end up having to stop at a hotel or a motel because there was no way I was making it to Northern California one night. And he's like, I'm going to meet.

this guy and sell these. Walt P. P. P. P. P. P. P.ages them. Phone rings in the motel. It's like, meet me, come back. So basically, we end up having a backtrack to Beach Boulevard, and that's, like, the big, like, we're not Sbury Farms at. I mean, this is a big intersection in place and where a lot of, like, crime happens and other things. And so that's kind of the catalyst of where it turned into everything. I realize lately that getting in shape isn't just about showing up to the gym. It's about what you're doing the other 23 hours of the day.

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Offer only valid for new factor customers with code in qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy. with factor. So now when he gets back in the car from robbing his attorney's house, what's your reaction? You know, he has a bag of items. I really didn't have a big reaction because at first, I thought they were home. I didn't know he like broken and stole these things because he's telling me this is his attorney and a long-term family friend. So I didn't know any better to think anything different until that night really unraveled, then that's when it started to click in my head. And I also trusted him.

I believed anything he said. I trusted him. And that's where I was wrong. Now, tell us about the deal and the setup. Never forget, like, you see those cheesy 70s movies of like the undercover coughs with like the long hair. Like, that's exactly how the guy looked. It was just the weirdest thing. And I remember him sitting in the living room and the guns were on, like, the table and, like, this bag of jewelry. And he had used. I had a backpack. I love Hello Kitty.

So I had a Hello Kitty backpack. And he had filled it up with, like, random items he had taken. And that was on the table, too. And I'll never forget that moment of, like, seeing that. And so they wanted to do the deal at the house. and I kept like trying to tell him like something's not right. Like this just doesn't feel. I don't know how to explain it.

It just didn't feel right. And he, you know, got upset with me and frustrated. So he was like, okay, fine, whatever. But they exchanged pager numbers. And then that was the night we were supposed to be driving to his brother's house in northern California. So we got in the car and ended up at the hotel. and when I didn't know it, he paged him, and that's how they were able to have this whole setup start. And when do you realize that it's an undercover?

I think I knew it then, but just didn't have the words to really put it in. But the second, like we, so I'm driving back on the freeway. I'm driving. He's in the passenger seat. And we go to get off on Beach Boulevard. and it's like you get off and go right or left obviously. And so I go to go left. When I go left, there's like nine cop cars.

I mean, they're already there. So I think in my mind at that point I knew. And they light me up. I pull over. I stop the car. Like that, I'm like, okay. And that's when things just took the turn. So he pulls out a gun.

He pulls out that revolver and he's like, drive, go, go. And he's like screaming. So I try, I start driving and there's freeway on, like the next on wraps right there to get on. So we got on the freeway and the high speed chase started. You were in a high speed chase? Oh, very, yeah. How long does this last for? It felt like forever, but I want to say probably less than five minutes.

Maybe, yeah, probably less than five minutes. I'm driving on the freeway couldn't have been more than a few seconds on the freeway. He turns and starts firing. that 38 next to my head out the back window towards the cops. And it was all I remember is it being so loud and I like my ears were ringing. There was like smoke. It was so crazy. I end up swerving all over the freeway because I've lost control of driving this vehicle now.

And then he, I think he fired two shots at that time. And by the grace of God, they didn't hit an officer. They landed in the windshield and I think a hood of the car. And so I kept, he had me. I got off the freeway at that point. And I didn't know what. Like, it was just loud. I remember my ears ringing.

It was so overwhelming to say the least. I think I was having a panic attack. Just so many things were transpiring at once. I got out of the car and I remember standing there. just standing on the middle of street, standing there. And he was screaming, get in the car, they're going to kill you. Get in the car. They're going to kill you.

And I got back in the car. We probably made it another few feet, maybe one light down. He ends up carjacking. He's a passenger, so he ends up carjacking the car next to him. Drags the guy out, gets in that vehicle, and he starts, and now I'm just still, again, out of the car just standing there, dazed. just not knowing really what's going on, an officer who is in all black, no emblems, no nothing, just 100% all black points a gun at me.

Doesn't say stop, doesn't say get down, doesn't say police, nothing, just points the gun at me. And then he starts screaming at me, get in the car, he pulls up at this point. And he's like, get in the car. So I now get in the second vehicle. And now he's driving. and I'm the passenger, now they perform a felony stop. So he starts speeding off. So the cop car that's coming bumps our car, which now spins it out of control and crashes

into a brick wall of a restaurant. So now no seatbelt for me, no airbag. I'm unconscious on the floor. So the next things that happen is they have a shootout with him. So the cops didn't just reload their weapons once, four times. So four cops reloaded their weapons. What are the cop reloaded six times? They dropped that many bullets into this car.

He was shot in the shoulder. And I think what saved my life was being slumped down on the floor and being unconscious. Because I couldn't imagine if I was sitting up, I definitely would have gotten, caught a bullet, were more than one. And he only got shot once. In the shoulder. And he lived? Yes.

Wow. So what happened to the guy that was in black pointing the gun at you? He just let you get into the other car without shooting? Yes. Yes. And I didn't know. I didn't find out that he was even an officer until I went to trial. When do you wake up from this?

In the back of an ambulance. A couple hours later. I think I don't know how the time frame, but they end up getting hands up surrendering. He gets out. They get him out. I get out. And I'm now, I kind of like come to my senses in the ambulance. My eye, so I busted the orbital bone underneath my eye was fractured. So went to the hot. They take me in the hospital. I had to have surgery to have that fixed. I mean, my face was just black and blue, as you can imagine, like hitting. I'm pretty sure I hit the dash. And so I spent a good few months in the hall.

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With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at USAA.com, Flash bundle, restrictions apply. Hospital. Were you chained up to the bed? Oh, absolutely. Chained up. And to them, I was a cop killer.

Like, that's what they labeled me as, even though no cop was injured, not a scratch, which I'm extremely grateful for, because I don't know I could live with myself if I took a life or participated in something that took someone's life. Do you ever think about why he took those extra moments to make sure you got in the car? car to escape because you hear about a lot of these stories and the guy will just run off. Right. I really don't. I think for him it was control. He was the type of person that is extremely controlling, you know, and that was his demeanor and character. And I think for me, I thought at the time I wanted to belong to something or someone and have a connection that I didn't have in my house or growing up.

And so for me, I didn't see it as control. I thought it was he cared about me. Now, you're in the hospital. Do they read you your rights and give you the charges formally in the hospital? I don't think they gave me. They read me my rights. I don't remember them giving me the charges formally in the hospital. The next, like, really major thing is that I remember, oddly, they, you know,

they sit an officer with you at all time in the hospital. they're not trying to let you have a moment of escaping, of course. But I remember it being in the newspaper and it being such a big deal and being on the news. And I remember the one time waking up in the bed and the officer sitting in the chair next to me had the paper. And it was like, look, you made the front page. And I remember him just being kind of a jerk about it, like that really sarcastic, ha-ha type of moment. And I remember that so vividly for some reason that just stopped. What were the headlines? What were they saying?

Bonnie and Clyde. Like that was it. And I was like, okay, I didn't even know who Bonnie and Clyde were at the time. Like, I had no clue. And that's, those were the headlines. It was just this big deal. And that back then in California, they were really trying to clean up the gangs. And so those few years were, they were really hard on crime. I think the three strikes law had just really came out.

So it was a really tough, tough. time for that era of cracking down on any tiny thing or big thing. What was your first conversation with your family like? I think they were more sad that this happened. And I think my mom was more like I should have left you at that place. Like in her mind, she should have left me in Utah. And none of this would have happened that I, I, I disappointed them.

But I didn't really understand that yet. My brother was crushed. I think he was 13 the time. And that to me was the hardest thing, was seeing him cry or him be completely crushed by this. Because he was my best friend. He was my guy. Like my brother was amazing.

So for me, that was really what hurt. Before any of this happened, what were your dreams in life and your goals? What do you want to be when you grew up? Believe it or not, a police officer. To follow your dad's footsteps. To follow my dad. Yep. I wanted to be a police officer.

My mom wanted this girl who would be a ballerina and a dancer. I'm not that person. That was never me. I love animals and I love, you know, I'm a lot like my dad. My dad rode horses. I rode horses. I take after him in a lot of ways. And so for me, I wanted to be a police officer.

That's where I saw my life going, even though I was making terrible choices that would never get me there. But I really didn't understand that either. Did any of your dad's friends come to your rescue and help you? They didn't come. They did try. They definitely did try. But they really, the media really spun this into, I hated cops. I didn't.

that they took a broken and fractured relationship with my dad and made it into something it wasn't. I got when we got arrested, I was going to therapy the time sporadically for my dad's suicide. And the therapist who was amazing, she had a fireplace in her office. And so she would be like, just, I didn't want to talk to her. So she was like, write everything down. And I'd fill up a journal and I'd bring it in and we would burn it. in her fireplace. And that was the most healing thing I'd ever done because all those like bad thoughts or

sad thoughts I got to watch just kind of disappear. So they tried to use that journal as a weapon against me. Oh, she hates cops because she says in here she hates her dad, even though the judge excluded that. They weren't supposed to use it, but they did. They used it. They published it. But they said, I mean, they did things that they weren't supposed to do.

And that got me. That was part of it. Would you end up getting charged with? So four counts of attempted murder on a peace officer, four counts of assault with a firearm on a peace officer, many aggravated charges. They just, you know, they take one charge that aggravated and aggravated. But California law at the time was different. So even though I didn't pull the trigger, I didn't do those things. California has a guilty by association law.

So if you and I go into a liquor store and I'm like, and just to hear, I'm going to go in and get us something to drink, I walk in, shoot and kill the clerk and get back in that car, you are guilty of that murder because you're supposed to know what I was going to do, which is silly because no one can predict if we could. We'd all be millionaires by now. I mean, that's really silly. I was one of the last people to get that law sentenced under that law. Now it no longer exists, but the time it's in. Now, if he presented you with this idea and told you exactly how it was going to play out, would you have still followed him? No, not even a little bit.

I probably would, I don't, I definitely would have left or not gone that night because he could have easily driven himself to go make that deal. If I would have known what was truly transpiring, I wouldn't have gone. There was no point. I'm not that person. I'm not really like that hardcore, like, person. So I think I would have just said no. What does your lawyer say the first time you meet with him?

So I had a public defender because my mom did not want to do anything for me. So I had a public defender and he had a public defender also. So they, she messed up and did not file the paperwork to separate us at trial. So it was like the first big thing that happened because even though he made the statements of I forced her, I made her, I held her at gunpoint, which was all true. It violated his right in trial because that would have obviously made him guilty instantly. So none of that got entered. Oh, wow. So you guys had a joint.

Yeah. Did you guys go to trial? Yes, we went to, we had a jury trial. And he, like, he's six foot five. So let me put this in perspective. He's six foot five. I'm like five to. He's 35.

I am 17, now 18. And he, in the middle of trial, he, you know, at the time we had hair, like just a regular man's haircut. He obviously has tattoos on his face in the middle of trial because he can care less. He knows he's done forever. He shaves his head, like big bald, and he's got these tattoos of swastikas on the back of his head, which I never knew because he had hair. Who knew? So he made enemies of everybody, and he is scary looking. So add that on top of it, and it just went down south from there.

In a joint trial, can they convict one and not the other? Yes, the jury can. But what sucks is that any statement he made cannot come in. Just like if I made any statement, they can't come in. So he couldn't claim responsibility on the stand? He wouldn't get on the stand. He was too. He didn't want to get on the stand because he was high up in a very important gang at the time.

And that would look like ratting. Even though he was technically a sex offender, which is our biggest offense. Correct. Right. Correct. Wow. And that bit him in the long run because all of his friends, that was it for them. They didn't understand a why he was with me at 17.

And not just that. That was a big no-no. You didn't let a woman or a girl take the fall for something. That's not what men do. Now, why didn't his attorney take a plea deal for him? Like, why did he even get to a trial? You know, I really don't know why his attorney didn't. I think that probably he forced it because he was not really like.

You want to go out with a bang. Yep, that was it. He knew he was done and he wanted to go out with a bang. And did they ever give you an offer before trial? Yeah, they did. They, oh my gosh, they'd pull me out of myself like these detectives and want to know like who this person's in, where they're located, where's this. I didn't know them. And that was just really the truth.

I didn't know them. I didn't know anything. Sure, had I met a couple people. yeah, but I didn't know who they were. That didn't, I didn't know that that's where they were a part of. It wasn't for me to, you don't tell women that in that place, but they believed I knew stuff. I didn't have anything to tell them. And honestly, I didn't, if I did, I don't know if I would have told them because that's your life you're gambling with. That's, you know, you snitch on somebody that serious. You really take the risk of. of that's the end of your life.

Where were they holding you? So they held me in Maine jail in Santa Ana. So I spent in their ISO or I was in ad say I was definitely segregated from everybody. Because of your age? My age and the crime. It was a very high profile. They did not want me around anybody else. So what was that experience like in the jail awaiting trial?

It was hard. really hard county jail is awful i mean everybody talks about like get going to prison because you have more freedom in a sense from county jail which is true but it was terrible i mean they and they were mean to me because to them i was a cop killer and i look at that now i'm like but no one got hurt and i always like in my mind i couldn't understand why they would label me that but then he was on the men's side of this jail and i didn't know at the time just doing whole horrific things. I mean, he was in there locked up with people he knew and other things. And so he was causing such a huge problem. And they would take a lot of their frustrations out on me.

So I got the, like, bad end of that because they really couldn't, he can care less what happened to him. Give us an example. What would they do to you? So they would wake me up at one or two in the morning. They'd drag me out of bed. They'd take away all my blankets, search my room. So if I had more than one blanket, they'd take it. And it's freezing there. Like, it's so cold. So you want another blanket. You know, you bargain with other girls to trade, you know, soups or food or whatever at phone times to get other things.

So they would take all that away from me. They would forget to give me lunches. Or if they would bring me a dinner tray, they would just drop it on the ground. So food just went everywhere. So there really wasn't a dinner to eat. They were really hard to deal with. When you're in there, what do you think you thought about the most? When you have all that time to really think in the cell.

Going home and doing better. Like, I really just wanted to do better. I wanted to just start my life. And, you know, I was like, okay, if I can't be a cop, what am I going to do? Thought about veterinarian school and how I would get there. I ended up getting my GED in jail because I obviously didn't finish high school. So had to finish somewhere. So I did that.

I did, you know, when I was allowed to go to things, which was not very often, I would do any class. I mean, I went to NAA and A, even though I'd never done, you know, I smoked some pot here and there. But I'd never done anything. But it got me out of myself. It got me, you know, to talk, be able to talk to other people. Did you have any friends? Yeah, I made a few friends there. There was a girl Nicole who actually knew from home from the billiards, bars or place that I used to go to.

So there's a few people that I know, but everybody knew me because it was just all over the news. It was everywhere. So it was hard sometimes. How did it feel to miss those moments like prom and graduation? And, you know, you're sitting in a prison cell while that's going on in the outside. outside world. It was hard. It was really hard because you don't realize how important those moments are that they really do make you. You know, that's like your first dance. I danced with a man the first time last year. Like that's it's hard to look back and know that I

missed those things and the friends that I did have were enjoying those experiences. And at the time. I didn't see them as exciting or fun, but I still wanted them. I still wanted to be a normal kid. When you were awaiting trial, what did you think the maximum penalty was going to be? I thought I was going home. So you did think there was hope throughout all of that. Yeah, because he, when we got her, when we were in, he was in the hospital also, obviously he was shot on the shoulder. So he had to be there too. Like I, he was, there's usually like one wing, like little bit of room. So he was down the hall in another room. And I would hear him tell them, I forced her. I shot the gun out of this hand. I did this. Like he made those statements.

I heard that. So I really thought I was going home. If anything, I, you know, maybe get a year or two in county jail. I never thought I would get four life sentences. I never saw that coming. How long did the trial last? I want to say it was less than six weeks. It was pretty quick. I do remember that he was, he kept saying he was going to get on the stand and let me go home. And it was a Wednesday, and I'll never forget this. It was a Wednesday.

And one of the bailiffs came and said, he's refusing to get on the stand. And I remember my attorney, like, panicking because there. There was no backup plan. I can, at that moment, I could tell. So she was like, you have to get on the stand. There was no prep for me, no, any of those things. And I was like, what do I say? I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

She's like, well, you need to get on a stand and tell them what happened. And I was really scared. Like, I didn't want to do it because I wasn't prepared for this. And in my mind, I really thought I was like they were going to hear. and all the things he said and let me go. And that's not even what happened. I got on the stand and they made it seem like I was the mastermind. Like I made this 35-year-old six-foot-five man bend to my will.

Like that made no, I couldn't understand that. And then I remember the district attorney asking me, well, do you love him? And I remember saying, yeah, I was just a kid looking for someone to belong to, not in that sense, but like a family, a friendship, a connection. I didn't love him. I just wanted to have the family or the connection that I saw everyone else had that I didn't. Now, weren't the witnesses, like the cop saying that, you know, he was a. the one doing the shooting. He was the one that did X, Y, and Z. He's the one that made the sale to begin with. Wouldn't the trial be going in your favor? Yes and no. So a few officers did get up there

and say, we didn't see her do anything aggressive was the term that he used. Then there was one officer who got up there and said, she pointed a black 9mm gun at me. And I was so baffled by that because there was no black 9mm gun in this whole case. There was a silver revolver, a 38 silver revolver. And of course, cop's word is gold. It does not matter. And back then, there wasn't body cameras that didn't exist, but there was car footage that disappeared. So the only footage that was available was from the helicopter that was obviously way above. so it really wasn't helpful or not helpful at that point. How did you feel when they were reading the verdict?

Broken. Shocked and broken. I couldn't believe that they found me guilty of the same, pretty much the same thing. I mean, I did something wrong. I drove a car and I abated him. Sure. I did that. Absolutely.

but I never ever wanted to harm another person, not once. And they made it seem like I, because of my dad and my broken relationship with him, that I just hated all cops and that I woke up that morning to go murder every police officer that ever existed. And that wasn't even the case, not even close to the truth. Ready or not, summer is coming, and Wayfair's Memorial Day clearance is on now. Right now through May 25th, get up to 70% off everything home at Wayfair. Plus, score amazing doorbuster deals all sale long and surprise flash deals on Memorial Day. We're talking thousands of products at every style and budget.

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including your FICO scores used for mortgages, auto loans, and credit cards. Visit myfico.com or download the MyFICO app to get started today. When you're found guilty in California in that setting, Are you sentenced that same day or do you come back? So I come back. And so in Cal, it depends. So that circumstance, the judge was like this right before they found, let me take that back. Right after they found me guilty, the judge or something doesn't exist anymore.

But the judge was like, we're going to send you to a 90-day observation in prison. I want to see if you're suited to go to prison. I had no clue what that meant. Still, to this day, it kind of just makes my mind. mind bend. So they send me before, before I'm given a time of how long, they send me to CIW to do a 90 day observation, which is basically they send you to A yard, which is the worst because it's receiving. There's nothing there. And they just drop you in prison for 90 days. And they do what they call like an evaluation of these counselors and the guards to see if you,

you're made for prison, which I don't understand that because who is really made for prison? Yeah, would that have altered the sentence if you weren't made for prison? I have no clue because no one in the whole history has ever been deemed not made for prison. So I don't know. I think it was more for the judge's conscience to be relieved a little bit because he was on at the time he was on probation. I don't know for what. So this was his chance to redeem whatever he did to get him on probation. Now, are you the youngest out of these women at this reception center? Yes.

At the time, yes. So I was just a little 18-year-old child here with some actual hardened people. I mean, the Manson sisters or girls, I guess, like Charles Manson, the three women, they were there. And I had no clue who those people were at all because I was above my age at the time. And so Susan Atkins, she was the A yard receiving like inmate who basically did everything. I didn't know who this lady was. I just knew that she was nice to me. Like they don't, they give you a fish kit, as you know, with some crappy toothbrush and just this little bit of stuff.

And she was super nice to me and brought me like toothpaste from the yard. and things to just make it a little better for me. And everyone, like, I can remember everyone being like, oh, my gosh, stay away from her, stay away from her. But I didn't know why. I didn't know who she was. And so I just remember her being really nice to me. And that's all I knew. I mean, she even wrote because you can't, there was no, I wasn't allowed to have contact with my family or the outside world.

Like, no phone calls, no letters. None of that was allowed in that 90 days. So she would write my mom letters to tell my mom like she's okay, you know, whatever it may be. Like she would do that for me until I ended up until my 90 days were done and then they send you back to county jail. What was your plan to survive in there, you know, going into that setting? At that point, I really didn't have one. I think that gave me a really good idea when I actually did get sentenced and knew I was going to prison because I kind of. I got like a glimpse of what it looked like the bartering system, the black market, you know,

how things really did unravel and work. What did you realize first that surprised you of how things worked? The inmates really do run everything, even though the guards are there. But all they're there for is just to be there. The inmates truly do run everything because you have like there's guards that face. or certain inmates. So, of course, they're, you know, used for whatever, you know, manipulation or whatever, who knows, like to do your dirty work. I saw that right away. Did you feel safe? No. I was small, young, and definitely people wanted to take advantage of that.

Did someone try to take advantage? Oh, yeah. They wanted me to bring in drugs because they knew I was going back to county jail. So they were like, we can get this to you. You know, you just do this and bring it in. And I was like, no. I was really timid at the time. I really wasn't the outgoing, kind of rough person than I ended up becoming until a little later.

So how did you navigate that? Do you tell them no right away? I did not first. I kind of was like, I'll think about it. I'll let you know type of a thing because I just wanted to get them out of my out of my way or out of my space until I could figure out a better plan to deal with it. And then I just avoided them at first. I mean, I knew I was going back to county jail in another few days.

So I just stayed out of the way as much as possible. And were you able to get away from them? I did. Yeah. And it wasn't until I actually got sentenced that I changed. Now, going to sentencing, did you know how much time you were facing? I had no clue. My attorney made it seem that it was going to be very little, that I had a chance and that this wasn't as bad as it sounded. So I believed that. I mean, you're made to trust your

attorney, right? You think that they're fighting for you. In my case, I found out at the end that my attorney was sleeping with the DA. They actually had a relationship. And neither one of them recused themselves or made that public until after we were found guilty. So would that have disqualified them or no? Yes. It would have disqualified them. One of them would have had to be reassigned to a different case. But no.

So there was no mandatory minimum in this situation? There was no, for me, there was no mandatory minimum. For him, there was. It was a his third strike and they wanted to put him away. And I found out at the time, this was not his first. time trying to kill a police officer. So his previous charges of Pelican Bay, he assaulted a police officer. So this wasn't his first rodeo. They were just wanting to hang him out to dry no matter what. Does he get sentenced the same day? We get sentenced days like a day apart. So they

don't do your sentencing together, but they do all the trial together. So he got sentenced before you? He got sentenced before me. He got 265 years to life. without the possibility of Pearl. How'd that make you feel? Broken, because then I got scared. If he got that, what does that look like for me? That's, at that point, I really, I didn't care any, when he wouldn't get on the stand, I, that's when I was like, I don't care.

I don't care what happens to you. I was really done at that point. I think that's when things started to click in my head. Did you ever get closure with him? No. Yes and no. Let me take that back. Yes and no. So towards the end, he ended up a friend of his, who was a friend of mine, stayed in contact with me sporadically, like letters and then eventually phone calls. And I found out he was dying. He had cancer in prison. And so he was dying. the mutual friend Brian he decided like he was like we got to get a written statement from him to cut you loose we got to find a way to get him to do the right thing so Brian started doing the legwork like contacting his brother and in different avenues to try to get him to basically

say you know get that on record now what happened and I believe he did end up writing something but by then, by the time that ended up getting to me, I was already, the law had changed. I was already on my way out. Like the path to getting out now was short, and it meant nothing to me because he only did it. If it wasn't for Brian, like getting that done, he wasn't, he was going to die and let me stay there forever. Did he end up passing away? Yes. Do you still have hatred towards him?

Not hatred, but I can care less. Like him, his family, I never, he, so him and his brother, they really weren't good people. His sister was a correctional officer in a men's prison. And they hated her so much that they did drive-bys at her house and shot up her house. These were like crazy dysfunctional people. So that in itself just spoke volumes about who they were. and how much they didn't even like each other. I think only the brothers really talk to each other.

Tell us about your sentencing. What happens? So I go to my sentencing day, and you're the only one in the courtroom besides, like, your family can come and sit in there and all the news reporters were there. And at this point, my mom, I think more my grandmother, forced my mom to hire an attorney. So now at this point I have a private attorney, but he's basically like my hands are tied. The only what, only thing we really have is an appeal. So that's now where we're kind of at and trying to ask the judge for a lower sentence. And I'll never forget the judge telling me, like, I'm going to give you seven to life because that gives you a chance to get out in seven years.

And the judge told me, you're a victim of your own crime. and I am so sorry this happened to you. And I just remember standing there thinking, if you know I'm a victim of my own crime, why life? Why life? And then my mom who was crying and asked, like, can I hug my daughter? And that was the first time I had to have any connection because you're behind class visiting at that point.

I got to hug my mom goodbye. And then I was off. What does a seven-al-life sentence mean in California? It means, it truly means forever. I would have been better off getting 25 years, 15 years to life, anything besides seven, because I was 18. So to go in front of a parole board in five years, they don't really see, they don't really see an adult. They still see a child. They still see someone who's going to have time to recommit another crime because I would have been 20,

five-ish. And that's still plenty of life ahead of me to do more bad things in their mind. So seven to life really was a death sentence because there was no seven. And does that mean that say you got parole to 10, you would have to be on parole for the rest of your life too? Or technically that that is what it means. But that's really not how it works out because the parole officers have the discretion to say, okay, she's done or they really do. do have that power to do. What was that first night, you know, after you got sentenced, like you're sitting in your thoughts, you're alone. What are you thinking about? It was really broken of how am I going to make this work? Like, how am I going to survive prison? So at the time, they put you in suicide watch, obviously, right after you.

And then they took me, so the bus comes every Monday. They pushed to get another bus to take me sooner. So they came with a van, a small van, and they took about six of us. And I actually went with a girl Sabrina, who I've known for a long time prior to jail. We knew each other, elementary school and other things. So she was on that same bus ride with me. And off we went to prison. You pull in.

and it's so intimidating. It's these huge fences with barbed wire and then another fence and an electric fence. I mean, just the, like, how big it is and overwhelming and daunting it looks was really scary. What facility was this? So California, they call it Chowchilla because it's in the city of Chowchilla in northern California. CCWF and that was like the big receiving. at the time prison. So anybody who got sentenced would automatically go there, do their A yard there. From there, they'd be assessed on where they get to go. There's only three women's prison.

So there's CCWF, VSP, and CIW. CIW is what everyone wanted to go to because it was in Southern California. The lower level security, two-man cells. It was more like what we would consider a country club type of prison, even though it wasn't. But out of the other two, we had eight women in a cell. So from eight to two, that's really what you wanted. Now, you walk in there your first day and you have those 90 days behind you that you did in a real prison setting. What kind of plan are you formulating in your mind to survive this? I wasn't sure yet. So they took me up the day after my birthday.

So it was November 13th. And of course, the guards were extremely sarcastic and rude. They're like, oh, happy belated birthday. What a great birthday. And I just remember that enraging me. Like, that made me so mad. And you can't talk back to them. There's no real recourse.

And so they took me out of the group. I think there was maybe eight of us that went up in that small van. And they separated me out immediately because I had life. So they, that was, they have to watch you like a hawk. They do all these things to make sure you're not going to escape or kill yourself or whatever. And I remember just sitting in that cell with real bars and being there and thinking how much I hate these people. Like looking at these guards and how crappy they were and thinking like, what am I going to do from here? How am I going to make it?

because I hadn't been on a real big yard yet, and this prison is huge. Each yard housed at least 2,500 women. So this was a really big facility. So I was just trying to prepare myself for what that looked like. Do you remember who came up to you first? I don't remember who came up to me at first. I do remember everyone knowing who I was. And that was just intimidating alone, because you really don't,

want people to know who you are. And people really wanted to test you. Like they saw that I came, you know, my family put money on my book. So I was able to purchase canteen and things like that. And then quickly I learned that you have to say no and what that meant like. I think within my first week, I was in my first fight. Tell us about that. What happened? So the girl coming back from canteen and you're allowed to purchase, I think, at the time, $50. worth of stuff. So that's hygiene products, food, like whatever you needed, $50 was the max you can spend. And I remember her saying like, oh, let me get that. Let me get that. And it's in like this mesh laundry bag. It's slung over my shoulder. And I'm like, there's no way. Like I cannot let her

get this. Like I knew at that moment in time and she touched my shoulder. And that was it. We just started fighting because I didn't want to be. the pushover or the person that they thought they could take advantage of. I knew if I was going to be here for life that I had to start making this my life. Do you think this was that transition point you were referring to earlier? Yes. Becoming a different person. Yes.

Becoming, you have, it's sink or swim. It's literally do or die because if you're not, if you're not strong enough, they'll take advantage of you somehow, some way, you'll become somebody's not so good prison person. And I didn't want that. And I had to become hard and tough and mean. Would you see people that didn't follow that same path become that person? Yes, many, many times. And it was sad to me. I can always remember looking at them and feeling sorry for them and wanting to help them, but you can't. You really have to draw a line and pick your battles because it has to be about you. It can't be about somebody else because that's when more problems come in.

Like people ask me like, how do you talk about it? Think about high school. Like every boy, girl, high school is hard in some aspect. People are gossipy and, you know, children. Prison, women's prison is like a bad high school. nightmare on repeat. Just the gossip, the, oh, she has this, I don't, the jealousy, all of the stuff, and then throw in guards who barely have a GED and are making six figures minimum and the power that they wield. And so half those, half the guards were probably bullied in schools.

And so this was their time to take it out on anybody that they saw fit. If you love podcasts, you already know how to fit great stories into your busy day. So why not do the same thing with books? Everand is an affordable audiobook and e-book subscription that goes wherever you go. Your commute, your workout, your grocery run. No rearranging your schedule, no carving out reading time. Just hit play. For a limited time, new members get two free books when they start a free trial.

Go to everand.com slash listen to claim yours. That's eV-E-E-R-A-N-D.com slash listen. What was your interactions with guards? So it was a mix, 50-50. Some liked me and they felt bad for me for the situation and others just were like, oh, she's a cop killer, she's this, she's that, and they would just make my life miserable. So I learned quickly like what jobs, like I got a porter job out on A-R'd right away.

because that gave me more freedom. It gave me more phone calls, access to things. And then it also let me build a little bit of rapport with some of the guards that were decent to be able to have a little more leeway. How are the counselors and case managers? So they're all they are are just guards that have gotten promoted to those positions. So they're the same. It's really the problem is that because I was such a high level and women are based off of points. So I would never be able to get under 10 points, 10 or 12 points because I had life

sentences. So it never would drop me down. So I think I started at like 600 points when I first got there because I was under a certain age, didn't have children, wasn't married, like they use all these factors to determine how you're going to be. That was like their sheet of figuring it out. Do they give you any advice? I mean, you're there, your first week you're sitting across from someone that's supposed to help you and you're 18 years old and you're facing this. What do they say to you? Keep your head down. That was it. Like just keep your head down. Figure out what job you're going to do and keep your head down because that's what they want. They want you to work. So at the time, I was in prison before rehabilitation was added on. So we were able to get home. boxes like your family can send in a box of stuff for you clothes food items blow dryer that kind of stuff so I I quickly saw what I needed to do which was acquire items things I can barter with and back then women could not have their hair down so you always had to have your hair up

like there wasn't we were on the same program as the men in a sense so if the men couldn't have long hair, either could the women. So there was a lot of similarities at the time. So I was there before the real transition of rehabilitation and separating men and women was like, like, we still had cigarettes. We still smoked in prison. There was a lot of stuff that doesn't even exist now, but I had. And so I knew that acquiring things was most important in figuring out, like, who I could use to get more other things, like girls that were in. indigent, didn't have anybody, hey, I'll get, pick five items. I'll get you those items. Get me this box. And that's what I started to do was build those things right away.

Who did you find yourself associating with or running with? Was it very clicky? It's all so clicky. But I'm, I'll talk to anybody. Like, I'm not person that I will absolutely talk to anybody. Doesn't that mean I'll make friends with you, but I will always be friendly to a certain point. I did a lot of like the drug dealers immediately saw like, oh, she gets stuff. So let's try to, they try to take me in to be like, hey, do you want to let's, you know, fill this curling iron with heroin and bring this in. You know, do you want to do that? I knew that I wasn't going to do that at the time.

This didn't say it didn't get to that point. But then I didn't want to do that because I had already lost everything. I didn't want to lose more. So I just kind of floated around and just kept it friendly as much as possible. Do you think it sets you up for success in any way, you know, walking in a prison thinking, okay, now I'm here. I got a seven to, you know, life sentence. I'm going to, you know, do the right thing and turn it around. Or is it more push you to, okay, I have to become someone.

I'm not just to survive this. And it leads you down to that path that you were just, you know, referring to of getting to that point where you're selling drugs. No, it definitely sets you up to leading to a path because it's such a mixed message that you get. So you get these counselors that are supposed to guide you and tell you things of steps to get out, right, in a sense. But that doesn't happen. There's no real guide to like, okay, well, let's do this job and this. It really was just, I have to survive this. I'm not going to be someone's victim and I'm not a pushover either.

So it was that having to make that defining choice of I'm not going to let somebody else tell me more so what to do when I already have these guards telling me what to do. So I think that was the point of I have to become somebody else. Do you think getting this sentence rebuilt a relationship with your mother? No. I think, no, now did my mother visit me, send me money, write me letters, yes. But my brother was alive also. So him and I were close, even though this broke his heart and I'll never be able to make amends with that. But I think my mom did it because other people were watching her.

And my mom at the time worked in a very high profile, powerful job in California. So people knew her. And obviously, same last name, knew I was her daughter. So she wanted it to look like she was a good mom and she was there. And to survive, I had to tell myself that story, too. To make it through, I had to have that hope inside that I had a good mom, that I was going home to a family and that I would have a chance at a life. How long did it take to feel like you had a routine in there that you felt comfortable? I think it took actually a couple years because you do a yard. So back then it was really overcrowded.

So eight cells went to day rooms, went to 12. So it was a very hard time in the prison system because of all the big changes that were happening in laws and in the prison. itself. So it took until, it took about maybe two years until I was transferred to the next across the street to VSP that I ended up in a real routine. I met Angel who I'll never forget. She was the kindest human being to me. And she went in really young and she at the time, she was in her 50s and we became friends. And I ended up getting moved into her room. She got me moved in her room and she really helped me understand the game of prison. Really, it's a game. You know, you follow this, you do this, but you also have to live and you have to survive.

So you still have to do these other things. So because of her, she taught me a lot of her wisdom and that and she was fun and she was a good friend to me. So I think her kind of taking me under her wing in the right way and showing me that you can live here and you can still have some fun and be normalish in a sense really help me for a while. What do you think was the most important thing she taught you? That stood out. Trust but verify. Don't just blindly trust because people are convincing, right?

Like we all want to, at least for me, trust somebody and be like, okay, but at the the same time, we're still all in prison and we've all still done something. So that was a really important thing that she taught me because you can't just believe what they're saying, including the guards, the counselors, you know, the nurses, the doctors, you really had to do your own homework and be your own advocate. And she taught me that. Do you think you could ever really trust someone in prison? No. No. Because at the end of the day, there's still a motive. If it's not, and who knows what that is, there's still a motive.

Now, could you be friends and to a certain degree have trust? Yes. But not blindly and not fully. When was a moment that you really saw yourself become someone you weren't in prison? And how long to take to get to that point? Not long after getting to VSP. I remember sitting on the main yard, which is so they're still. four yards, B, A, B, C, and D. And each yard, like, had their own little mini yard. And then

there was the main yard, which was open all weekends for all yards to interact with each other. And I remember being out there sitting, like, in a circle on the grass with some of the girls who were married to guys of my co-defendant or knew him or however. And I remember sitting there and the girl, I mean, she was sitting in front of me. We were talking. And she let another girl walk up behind me and punch me. I mean, she knew it was going to happen and said or did nothing. And that was the person, like, I knew in that moment. Like, I mean, I knew if I did not beat this girl so badly that other people would question whether or not to try to fight me again.

And that's what I had to do. And I knew that's when I really had to change or really changed. and that that wasn't the person. What did you do? I beat the crap out of her. Because if I didn't, then people were going to try again and keep trying because that's how it works. It's eat or be eaten. And that's not where I was going to go.

What happened to you? Did you go to the shoe for that? Oh, no. So, you know, their shoe was so crowded because they put people in there that, like, death, we had death row. So death row inmates took up a lot of the shoe and other things like that. So I didn't go to the shoe. I got confined to my room, put in the little mini jail on my yard and lost all my privileges. And they search a room.

They take all your stuff. Like they do things like that. But I think the one guard was so impressed because I was so small and the chick was so big. I think he kind of was like gave me a break because he was just. dumbfounded that I was able to do that. Now, are these rooms cells with bars or how are these laid out? So they're probably the size of this room and four sets of bunk beds. So eight women, a bathroom and there's a door, but the top part of the door is cut out and the bottom part of the door is cut out. So there's like just a small section where the handle is is like you can't

see through. And then there's a shower. Same same type of door. door. And then there's a big, large window, which is like plexiglass that you can, the guards can walk the hallway and see through. Then there's the door you can go in and out of, which automatically locks. And then that's got a huge plexy glass window. There's two sinks and then two mirrors, prison mirrors, which are not breakable. They're like shiny pieces of metal. And that's how they were laid out. And each, each girl had a locker. So we were all had an individual locker. And that was it. What do you think was your worst day in prison? My brother dying.

How did you find out? It was after lock-in, which is 830, and I didn't have, I was already in CIW down south. I hadn't been there very long because they closed VSP and they turned it into a men's prison. So they had to shuffle us somewhere. Locked in, guard popped my door, and he's like, hey, the chaplain wants you. Everybody knows that if you, that's something's wrong. And I'm like, no. I just remember telling him no. And he's like, because I didn't have a roommate at the time, he's like, go get one of your friends. Who do you want to go with you? And I was like, nobody. I didn't, I didn't want anybody to go. So they send me to the chapel. And I remember walking over there and just dreading. I mean, I thought in my mind me my grandmother. I mean, I did not. ever think it would have been my brother. And it wasn't, it was the chaplain. She was for like the Muslim community. She wasn't like a Christian chaplain or anything like that. And she had a really

heavy accent. And I walk in her office and she's like sit. And I remember saying no. And so I stood because I just didn't want to take this. I didn't know it was my uncle who was on the phone because my mom, I guess, was too distraught to call. So my uncle said, it's Trevor. And I was like, what? And he said, Trevor is, is gone. Like, it didn't hit at first. I was like, what do you mean gone? And he said Trevor killed himself. And I just remember hitting the floor. It broke me. Oh, that day broke me. And one of the guards that was there was actually a really decent human being, he, they make you go to the infirmary because she did. That lovely chaplain lady was like, oh, take her to the infirmary.

She needs to be on suicide watch. So they were going to take me that moment in time of finding out that my brother died and lock me in a cell by myself with no clothes, no nothing. And I was pissed. I was so mad. And he, I remember him grabbing my collar, not in a mean way, but to probably save me from myself because I think he saw me thinking that I'm going to punch this, this chaplain. I think he saw that. I remember him dragging me to the infirmary and him telling me just repetitively, be calm. Just be calm through this, this talk, be calm. And they bring in a nurse, obviously, and they're, you know, oh, do you want to hurt yourself? Do you want this? And I remember just the rage fueling inside of me. Like, I don't, my brother just fucking died. No, I don't, what do you

mean? Well, why are you so upset? My brother just died. Like, I remember, like, not understanding how another person couldn't understand what grief looked like what grief is or pain or hurt. And so Guard came back in and he, and when the nurse walked out, he said, be calm. Just be calm through this. I will help you get back to yourself tonight. Please be calm. And really, I think it was just God at that moment, using that guard to help me get through that moment. And sure enough, he was like, okay, no suicide watch walks me back to the dorm. They give me a phone call. And then because I didn't have a roommate, the guard said pick somebody, whoever just pick. And I remember going to my friend Susie. She lived with my other friend, Jen, and they knew what happened already because the guards told them.

And so Susie moved into my room that night on a temporary basis, so I wouldn't have to be alone or go to suicide watch. And that moment, that moment really changed me. I sold drugs after that. I had a phone. I did. That was the moment that I gave up, that I completely gave up. Do you think your brother before that was your reason to survive in there and to live and make it through? Yes.

Yes. There was a lot of days that it was really hard and dark and I was talking to him on the phone. And I remember, so this is going to sound terrible. But when I, before I turned 30 in there, I told my brother, like, if I, in my early 20s, I remember telling him, like, if I have to turn 30 in this place, I'm going to kill myself. Like, I, there's no way I'm turning 30 in here. I don't want to spend the rest of my life here. And he made my 30th birthday great. Like him and some, like, my uncles and friends came to visit me, and they all had these shirts.

One said, like, happy. Other had birthday. My brother said had 30th on his. I mean, they really went out of their way to make it special as much as they could. And that was a big deal for me because I mattered to somebody. And on the days that I struggled, my brother would say, no matter how hard it is, just get up and brush your teeth today. Just take a shower today. You don't have to do anything else.

Just do that. And it was that advice and that love for my kid that I did not. know was struggling so deeply. And I look back with just such gratitude for that. Because if it wasn't for those words of encouragement and him really being there, I probably would have done a lot worse things earlier on than later. Do you think those memories also helped you survive after his passing? Yes. Not just that. Like I got, I got Luke out of this. I mean, Luke and Trevor known each other. since high school and, you know, wrote me letters and visited me and, you know, was there for me. And that's a big deal to have somebody on the outside see you, you know, just value, be there for you.

And I remember when, you know, they came to see me after the first weekend after my brother died of how hard that was. It was such a dark, you know, you value visits. They're uplifting. They're exciting. But this was dark and hard. to be in. Who is Luke to you?

So that way the audience knows. Oh, sorry. So boyfriend, many years of on and off and now on. But for me, it's more than that. It's a person that saw me at my absolute worst in life. But yet still sees good in me. And that's so important. I'm so thankful for that.

Tell us about your best day in prison. Best day in prison was probably finding out that it was over, that it was actually really over. Tell us about that day. How long in your sentence and how old were you? 35. The law had changed. They had gotten rid of the guilty by association, which is what I was sentenced under. They had also gotten rid. I was sentenced under the old seven to life law, which doesn't exist anymore. I was the last person in California to get that. So that you, they had now no choice but to let me go because I wasn't the aggressor in the crime. And that's kind of how the law catalyst into change.

And it also said that anybody under the age of 25 who did not murder wasn't the first person in the crime had to be evaluated as a juvenile. So that is what changed for me. So they formally make you go to a parole hearing, which is a joke. That's the silliest thing they ever created as these parole hearings. So I remember going in there, and honestly, I didn't have hope. I really didn't. Even though all these things changed, and I knew they changed, and I knew I qualified.

for every single one of them, but I still didn't have hope. So much bad had happened and, well, you can't, I don't trust the system. Why trust the system that doesn't, there's justice isn't blind. It isn't, that's all baloney. It doesn't exist. So I remember going in there and going with like your binder of all the things that you've done and all these accomplishments and all that stuff. And I remember sitting there and the guy telling me, okay, you're going home.

I just sat there. He had to say it to me three times. I mean, he leaned over the table. It was like, you're going home. I was like, oh, okay. But I still didn't believe it because the system didn't boost confidence or trust. So I was like, okay. But then as the day went on and I was like, oh, I'm going, I'm going home.

Holy crap. I'm going home. And they love to do. Love when you're a lifer is getting ready to parole. They love to try to take that from you. That is a real thing. If it's not inmates, it's guards. Within 24 hours, they were in.

my cell tearing it apart trying to find something to keep me here. They knew I had phones. They knew I had stuff, but they never were able to find it. Never. So the smartest thing I ever did is I love dog. So I was in the dog program. And in the women's prison, you know what the bunk feds look like. So in the dog program, they give you wood blocks to lift your bed higher so the dog can be under the bed. I took those wood blocks and carved it out to put my cell phone in there. So then I would just get under the bed, lift it up, slide those blocks in. That's where my phone would be. They were so mad. They could never find it. I mean, it killed them, killed them to not find that phone. Just had to outsmart the system. By that point in time, were you expecting to actually spend the rest of your

life in prison? Yes. I knew after my brother had died that it was, after all, the appeals and even though my charges were slightly modified after right after like all the um all the enhancements they ended up the appeal court took off because they didn't technically apply to me I wasn't a gang member I wasn't those things so that all came off for me but they the guilty by association didn't come off that's what held the life sentence so after Trevor died it was a time in prison where our warden actually got what they call walked off forced in early retirement. She was a terrible human being. I mean, embezzlement, all the things you can think of this woman was doing.

And not just that. She was hiring her friends. So these were people that weren't even really qualified. Not that anybody's qualified to work in a prison, but she was hiring other guards that were like doing shady things. And she made this environment so horrible that we had the highest suicide rate in all of America for almost 10 plus years. People that were going home within months of their date were killing themselves because women were being abused by guards. There was so many inappropriate relationships happening. And of course, it's never the guards' fault.

And it, but it is, you know, like you're in a place of power in a sense, like have, have some morals. Like, say no. I mean, every, I'm not every, but most women, sure, of course, in that setting, try to manipulate it. But they, at the time, there was an influx of drugs because there was all these guards that were working that would do, you know, whatever you kind of found the right one, they'd do. And that's what ended up happening. I knew so many people that had died in there. And it was so sad. And then to go, when Trevor died, I wanted to go to his funeral.

And you're actually, you can do that. You have to obviously pay for it. You pay for two guards. You know, there's a whole process to this. And so she, this warden, gave me hope that I could go. Right. So she's like, well, you're a lifer. You have to have three guards take you.

Sure. Find three. They all say yes. Then it was, oh, well, you're a cop killer. You have to make sure the Long Beach Police Department is okay with you going to this funeral. No problem. They said no problem. Get all these things lined up.

I mean, the funeral is, it had to be on a Friday because of the guards day. It had to be on the guards days off. So we got, I mean, we lined all this up in the very last minute. She said no. She said no. And I, she didn't even have the balls to tell me no to my face. She sent some flunky CO to tell me no. And it was just at that point, I, I couldn't take it anymore.

I was like, why am I trying? If I'm not getting out of here, then I'm going to make my life as comfortable as possible in this place. Tell us about that release day, getting out for the first time. What was that, 17 years almost, 18 years? 18 and a half year, like 19 years, technically. I remember, so you get a parole box, right? You get to pick your clothes, you're going to go home. And I had never really worn high heels, right?

Never been a woman or an adult. So I was like, I'm paroling in high heels. Like, everybody made fun to me. They're like, no, you're not. You're not going to be able to walk. I paroled in high heels and I walked out of there. But they still messed with me. Like, you, that morning, you're supposed to get called to, like, the R&N.

our first thing and get your box, get dressed, and then they release you within usually an hour. They didn't release me until like closer to noon. They let me sit there knowing my family was in the parking lot, knowing but they just wanted to have their last little jab at me because I wouldn't give them who I was getting the phones from. I wouldn't give them, you know, they couldn't find my phone. They had no real anything to hold on to me. So they just made me. And I was losing my mind. Oh my gosh, sitting on the yard. Like time takes by so slow in those moments. And I just remember like, oh my gosh, come on, come on. And finally they called me. And I remember like changing my clothes in in R&R and putting like these shoes on and this

outfit and walking like that gate opening and knowing I was walking through it, it almost felt like a dream. Like it was so weird and walking out. My mom wanted to hug me and I was like, no, keep walking. Because I was so afraid they were going to get me back in there somehow. Like I wouldn't let anybody hug me so we were in the cars down the street at a Starbucks. What do you think was the biggest change in you internally from walking in there versus walking out? I was a harder person in a lot of sense. I definitely...

I definitely wasn't as nice or as kind as I used to be or, you know, wanted to be. But then I also had this huge trust issue. I did not trust the system, people in authority, because I saw for myself how they were able to change the narrative to fit what they wanted to say. And that was a big change for me. How do you live life now without hatred or regret? You miss such a big piece of your life, but yet, you know, you're here, you're happy. Yeah. You're able to tell the story.

I really think my faith, my trust in God has really made that happen. I mean, and he's also placed people in my life like Luke, who have been there from the beginning, who don't see that person. And I've made friends along the way, you know, as an adult now who, when I tell them, Sometimes they're like, what? I'm like, yeah. They're, they're so baffled. They're like, I would have never in a thousand years thought, ever thought you were in prison. But we only have today. We're not promised tomorrow. So I just try to have fun today. I'm a very sarcastic person. I love to laugh and be silly. And I'm very childlike in a lot of ways in that aspect of just jokes and in that stuff. that's all we have. I'll never get that time back no matter what, but I'm going to enjoy today. I think stories like yours are beneficial because like you said, you have friends that you meet that they wouldn't expect you to have been to prison. So it helps kind of break down that stigma,

especially when you come out and share it. Yeah. Because you could easily be just like a, you know, the high school soccer mom or whatever and they have no idea looking at you, you know? Yeah. They have no clue. And I tell people they're like, I love watching their faces when their eyes get really big. Like, what? No. And then I'll show them like a picture of like myself or me on my cell phone in prison. And they're like, oh my gosh.

And they're always their first question is how do you keep your hair so blonde in prison? And I'm like a bar of soap and hydrogen peroxide. They're like, oh my gosh. But that's, you got to, you only have today. So you just got to make me do. Did you get your tattoos in prison? I had some in prison. So this was my COVID.

My sleeve is my COVID project. I had a friend who owned a shop. And he was like, come on, let's go. And I sat and got my whole sleeve done. And everything is a memory of my brother. If it's not something he did, it's something him and I did. And that really was my grieving process. I finally got to have that real process of grief.

because yes, you know it happened and you're in prison, but you're not in the real world. So it's different than being out and living in the real world around the actual circumstances. Tell us about rebuilding after prison. How do you go from getting out what's been 10 years? How do you go from day one to now here 10 years later? I'm definitely changed from, I think day one I was like extremely hopeful that the world was like roses and exciting. And I did learn quickly that I couldn't tell everybody that I had been in prison because some people really were judgmental and made me feel shameful for that.

And that kind of changed me too. So it made me more reserved in opening up to people and trusting, you know, people right away. And that was a big learning curve for me. It still sometimes is. I mean, I'm way better at it now, of course, but I also am very picky in who I let in my circles because I know how much that matters. What do you think is been the biggest learning lesson you take away from all of this? It doesn't matter what happens to you. It matters what you believe inside in yourself, I mean, and how you view yourself. because no one else's opinion truly matters at the end of the day.

If you can't love yourself or have faith in something for me, it was my faith. It was God. If I didn't have my faith, I would have, I think I would have folded, even though I didn't always live that way. But when I did try to stomp on the light that's inside of me, he never allowed me to do that. And I value that. and I try just to treat others that way because we're all people and you never know what someone else is going through. If there was an option to avoid all of this, would you have chosen that option looking back on it now?

That's a loaded question because that question in my mind comes with would my brother still be alive? So for me, I don't know because if that option came with Trevor still being here, then yes. However that looked like to keep my brother, I would do. I'd do anything for that. Well, Melissa, I appreciate you coming on the show today. You did so great. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, you did amazing and, you know, I'm so happy for you along this journey and I wish you the best in life. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.